Mandrake to Come Preloaded on Wal-Mart PCs

surfimp writes "Here's a story from NewsForge: 'MandrakeSoft CEO Jacques Le Marois confirms the news this morning, and company spokeswoman Margaret Waters says, while a contract with Microtel has not been finalized, the company is working on getting Mandrake certified to run like clockwork on the Microtel systems. Waters is hopeful that the dotted line will be signed and PCs up for sale by the end of next week.'" Update: 06/20 17:21 GMT by T : Ooops! The Mandrake spokeswoman's name is Margaret Waples, not Waters. Apologies, and thanks to Todd Lyons of Mandrakesoft for the correction.

Comments

first and all

[wrax]

hey i may be first, but really its good that linux is finally getting preinstall space in major stores.

Re:first and all

[Progoth]

yeah no kidding

of course, I predicted this would happen:)

Re:first and all

[Anonymous Coward]

> really its good that linux is finally getting preinstall space in major stores.

Except its not - this is walmart.com, not the retail stores.

Hopefully the stores will follow, but they're not there yet.

Re:first and all

[thinkpenguin]

imagine a cluster of walmarts! ok im sorry walmart.com's...

Not at Walmart, at walmart.com

[ShawnDoc]

For those that are too lazy to read the story, the computers pre-loaded with Mandrake are going to be available at walmart.com, not at Wal-Mart retail stores. There's a difference.

Re:Not at Walmart, at walmart.com

[Jonny Ringo]

There's a difference.

Really? Being that its the year 2002 and technology is so advanced I often get confused if I'm in cyberspace or the reall world. What is reality?

Sounds like a movie huh?

In a time where things aren't always what they seem. One man will buy a computer from Wallmart and change a nation, but soon finds out that he's not at Wallmart at all but Wallmart.com.

Wallmart.where_the_hell_am_I ? rated R.

Re:Not at Walmart, at walmart.com

[Knoxvill3]

Good Call. I was too honestly making a shopping list for walmart (Deoderant, Sams Choice, over Stuffed Bean bag, Microtel machine running Linux..).

But I can see where they are just pushing on their website as opposed to in stores. For one, think of how many stores they have throughout the country (US), just putting 10 of these units alone is quite a chunk of change, and if no one bites at the offer, there now stuck with all that inventory on these machines.

But from a website, you keep it at one area, you don't have to stock up on the machines, you can pass the order directly to the manufacture and have them ship it to the customer (In this case Microtel.), this way you keep a lower surplus, and the customer still get's their product.

Re:Not at Walmart, at walmart.com

[greywolfaz]

but its a start... :) I hope it catches on...

Re:Not at Walmart, at walmart.com

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you mean Wal-Mart. Wallmart is where you buy walls.

Re:Not at Walmart, at walmart.com

[HiThere]

But that's also where they are selling the Lindows computers isn't it? Sounds fair. I wonder what the price difference is?

Re:Not at Walmart, at walmart.com

[chadm1967]

You got to it before me....... :)

Re:Not at Walmart, at walmart.com

[1010011010]

They could still let people order the PC through the local WalMart store, and the fulfill from the central warehouse. It would be nice to see a display saying "Buy a WalMart PC!" in the stores. They need to make a deal with an ISP now -- "includes internet service for 6 months."

Actually, they should pressure AOL to write a Linux version of their client, and then sell "WalMart AOL-PCs!"

I think their average customer might be interested in it. After all, they sold those MSN Companions for $200+ each ... and they just run Wince.

Re:Not at Walmart, at walmart.com

[sharkey]

the computers pre-loaded with Mandrake are going to be available at walmart.com, not at Wal-Mart retail stores. There's a difference.

Right. To get the PCs preloaded with Mandrake, you simply drive to Wal-Mart, purchase a Lindows PC, take it home and sign up with an ISP. Then, connect to the Internet, visit walmart.com and order yourself a Mandrake PC. Finally, return the Lindows PC to the store and wait for your new Mandrake PC.

Re:Not at Walmart, at walmart.com

[Anonymous Coward]

It depends, though.

A lot of trailers don't have the telephone hookup needed. Some don't even have the three-wire grounded electrical outlets needed to make the above possible.

Re:Not at Walmart, at walmart.com

[Knoxvill3]

I hope I'm not alone in feeling that AOL would be a rather poor choice to port onto Linux.

Granted, I see the merits of a push like that, and when I think about it more, it is a good idea marketwise, as well as community building wise. I mean granted, this isn't going to electrify the Linux community and cause a surge of millions to cross over, but it deffinately would give a boost in most cases, especially to those who aren't too comfortable wanting to jump to a nix based system. Having something like AOL available on the platform could be a welcome sign to a lot of wouldbes, despite how many of us cringe at the idea of even concidering running an AOL Client in a prestine linux environment. =)

Re:Not at Walmart, at walmart.com

[Anonymous Coward]

a shopping list for walmart (Deoderant...

Why? It's your spelling that stinks.

Re:Not at Walmart, at walmart.com

[sniepre]

and me...

Re:Not at Walmart, at walmart.com

[bhsx]

AOL already made a linux client for the Gateway WebPad thingy that ran linux. Other than that, Wal-Mart apparently is an ISP, as they sell dial-up for $10/month probably through NetZero/Juno; but I don't know.

Re:Not at Walmart, at walmart.com

[xtremex]

I also own a NIC (thinknic.com) that I use as a thin client, but the installed software has a Netzero Client for Linux.Since it is a Java app, they just had to change the dialing routine since the original Netzero was written using J++ (no cross platform stuff there!)

wow

[TheMMaster]

I am no american so I might be talking out of my ass here, but it seems that wallmart really is trying to bring choice to ther customers, I just wonder if they'll support all OS's they ship now (mandrake, windows and lindows), if they do, and are succesfull, maybe more companies will follow...
I can't help but feel that this is "a good thing (TM)"
I'll bet dell is really wondering what they did wrong back then ;)

Re:wow

[BionicElf]

WalMart doesn't provide support for anything they sell. Typically, there's a card in the box that you use to register with the source company (in this case, MandrakeSoft) to get support. I would assume the same practice would be followed here.

Re:wow

[Drakin]

NO chance of Wal-mart offering support. only thing wallmart can/will do, as a company is
1) Take it back, give refund
2) Exchange it for a new one.

If this were being done ithin stores, then one may have a chance of getting some support at the store level, but via the web, they'll refer you to the manufacture, or provider.

Re:wow

[astrashe]

I think that WalMart is trying to push prices lower, and that choice is a byproduct of that. They are as feared and hated in their circles as Microsoft is in the tech world.

Small computer shops in California are selling decent PCs without OSs or monitors for under $300. The cost of the OS is becoming a more significant chunk of the total price, and if you want to push the prices way down, you've got to confront it.

For all we know, this is brinksmanship, and Wal Mart is just trying to push MS into giving them special deals on OS pricing. They've done that to other suppliers.

Re:wow

[SuperCal]

I don't really think that WalMart cares if its customers are getting a choice. I think what they are trying to do is to figure out wether or not they can make higher profits by avioding the MS tax(I know, I know, that term is getting old). If people will buy a PC w/o Windows and Walmart can keep some of the difference then you can bet they will stick with it. If not they won't keep linux around just to give a choice to customers.

Re:wow

[Kiaser Zohsay]

I doubt if Dell is wondering anything. Dell and Microsoft both know perfectly well what happened...

Dell: Linux is starting to get popular, so lets offer PCs with Linux preloaded, just like Windows!
Microsoft: I don't think that's such a good idea ... *.45 revolver cocking*
Dell: Ummm... maybe you're right, Linux might not be ready for the mainstream yet...

Re:wow

[SirSlud]

Walmart is notorious for demanding that magazine covers and CD covers be changed if they are going to carry it. Seeing as Walmart represents 15% of all US music sales, and an even higher percent of the magazine retail market (I think, might be wrong on that), publishers constantly have to succumb to Walmarts desire to retain its 'family image'. In that sense, Walmart censors .. they couldn't give a rats ass about choice. They are down to make money, and by opting to force magazines to self-censor, I don't really think choice has much to do with this story.

I think money. The margins. No MS Tax. Yadda yadda. Ironically, due to their size that causes the negative behaviour referenced above (nevermind they represent the new generation of ultra-shitty employers), they might just be more than a little 'blip' on MS's radar. It's like Godzilla and Mothra; they're both evil, but if one takes down the other a few deserved notches, I won't complain!

Re:wow

[lynx_user_abroad]

NO chance of Wal-mart offering support.

Damn straight. But then again, you know Linux, don't you? Ever thought of adding Lindows(tm) Consulting/Support to your shingle?

As you point out, you won't be competing against Wal*Mart, and I'll bet Microsoft has already warned every large consulting/service organization not to even think about offering Linux(tm) or Lindows(tm) support, or they can kiss their Microsoft Certified Partner designation good-bye.

Yet if Wat*Mart sells it, you know there's gonna be a market for technicians to service it....

Wal*Mart may be a crocodile, but as any plover will tell you, there's food in them there teeth.

Re:wow

[Citizen of Earth]

I think that WalMart is trying to push prices lower, and that choice is a byproduct of that. They are as feared and hated in their circles as Microsoft is in the tech world.

But WalMart screws the people behind the counter instead of the people in front of the counter, right?

Re:wow

[Brian_Ellenberger]

>Walmart is notorious for demanding that magazine >covers and CD covers be changed if they are >going to carry it. They are down to make money, >and by opting to force magazines to self-censor, >I don't really think choice has much to do with >this story.

That's not censorship, that's is choice. Don't like it, go to Target or KMart. I personally love the Wal-Mart policy and shop there because if it. But that's my choice.

I mean, there is alot of crap out there in this country. Which is fine, it is a free country. But just because you create crap doesn't mean people or corporations have to buy it! That's the other part of a free country.

Don't you think it is pretty arrogant of you to basically say, "I don't care what Wal-Mart or its loyal customers say, you must carry these soft-porn magazines and raunchy CDs"?

Re:wow

[Drakin]

I do know some Linux... enough to install/configure your standard box. that, and I can read manuals. Good combination, particuarly considering that of the 3 computer shops that are in town, 2 i know don't deal with linux. the other, I haven't delt with yet.

now, as for walmart having food in it's teeth... damn right, considering that I'm *shudder* empolyed by wal-mart.

Re:wow

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, Mothra was not evil. And in some movies, Godzilla also was not evil. Now WalMart, that creature is DEFINITELY evil.

Re:wow

[Anonymous Coward]

that's not censorship. That's "free market". If people can't get their smut at walmart they'll go elsewhere. Or decide they have better things to spend their money on

Re:wow

[Anonymous Coward]

Its cheap shit with commodity onboard everything usually. Just like Dell, IBM, HP, Compaq or whatever. Assembled in Mexico or Ireland or Singapore.

Re:wow

[SirSlud]

Two things:

1. Walmart gets magainze covers changed before they are printed. That means, *every store* carries the 'walmart approved' copy. Thats not choice. Thats Walmart unfairly influencing what musicians (Nirvana is one such band that changed the cover of their CD before releasing it, *soley* due to Walmart issuing a complaint with their label.) and magazines wish to print. You really shouldn't talk like you do, in a country which claims free speech (both the right to be free of censorship, and the right to be free of undue pressures to self-censor.) is one of its founding principals. But you dont sound like somebody whos interested in these types of issues. No worries, people like me will care about the world you live in such that you dont wake up and find free speech an outdated concept in a not-so-distant future.

2. These are not soft-porn magazines. This is Time. Rolling Stone. Seventeen. All mainstream magazines. Many magainzes specifically call up Walmart and seek approval for their covers pre-printed, because if Walmart refuses to carry the published run of the magazine, you cannot justify to stockholders, as a magazine publisher, giving up 15% of your sales right off the bat.

You dont sound like you have a clue as to the scope of leverage and power that Walmart brandishes in the marketplace. Sit down and really think about what it means, to have virtually every magazine in your country seek approval from Walmart before running the presses. Walmart is censoring your culture.

Re:wow

[SirSlud]

ROFL.

"free market" is when one retailer influences what *every retailer* in the market is going to get, as inventory? YOU PEOPLE DONT UNDERSTAND - ALL STORES GET THE WALMART APPROVED COPY, INCLUDING COMPETITORS. Its too expensive to print the 'Walmart' copy, and the 'Everybody else' copy, so all retailers get the 'Walmart' copy.

Its about as anti-free market as you can get. The customers dont decide, the sales person does. I feel so sorry for you people.

Re:wow

[SirSlud]

And if *every store* doesnt make sense to you, thats *every store* in your country, including Target, etc, etc. All stores. Only one version of a magazine will be printed (simple economics), and currently, Walmart has the size and might to influence what gets published in your lovely free country.

Re:wow

[SirSlud]

and dont you think its arrogant of you to assume I was talking about soft-porn mags and raunchy CDs? lol, how old are you? I'm talking about regular fashion and popular culture magazines, and pop culture bands. Mainstream stuff. Walmart is notorious for causing at least one magazine a month to change its cover to appease Walmarts 'family image' by reducing the amount of *gasp* skin or any messages which do not align with its hygenically squeaky clean image. I cannot stress enough that this is the version *all retailers* will recieve for any given month and magazine.

Re:wow

[Mr. McGibby]

Well, apparantly, the contents of the cover isn't so important to the publisher that they can't at least stick an extra page on the front to cover up the offending cover for issues sent to Walmart. Walmart isn't censoring the content of the magazine, which is really what the magazine is about anyway. Walmart isn't the one "not buying" the offensive covers, it's the shoppers, the family-values crowd. They aren't as small a minority as you might think. They are the 15% who don't buy magazines (TIME, Rolling Stone, whatever) that offend them.

(Please, Rolling Stone? It may be mainstream but I wouldn't let my hormone-ridden sons have it.)

Re:wow

[thomas.galvin]

You really shouldn't talk like you do, in a country which claims free speech (both the right to be free of censorship, and the right to be free of undue pressures to self-censor.) is one of its founding principals.

Freedom from government censorship, yes. The ability to say "This is the message I want to put out, and you are hearby forced to help me do so," no.

The guy who owns Wal-Mart is a born again Christian, and he has decided that his morals are more important than the profits that could be earned from selling morally offensive matterial. I applaud him for that. He is also making a ton of money, and I applaud him for that, as well.

Re:wow

[SirSlud]

> Walmart isn't the one "not buying" the offensive covers, it's the shoppers, the family-values crowd.

Kind of hard to prove that if they dont actually carry them, now, isn't it? For that matter, that *nobody* ends up carrying them?

I don't really care about reasons or excuses; only that magazines willingly admit to changing their covers (content-alterting self-censorship is more common in the news biz, true) is due to one retailer, in what some people insisnt on holding up as an example of a functioning free market. Please! If people wont buy it, they wont buy it. Walmart seems to think that you are incapable of even *viewing* a potentially controversial cover and making a decision whether or not to buy it - they make that choice for you! Since you dont know what the pre-Walmart-Approved covers are, you're in no position to evaluate whether they are censoring material you deem censor-worthy. Alas, as usual, since they are successful and wealthy, people are all too happy to assume (envy?) that they must be the poster child of how to run a retail conglomerate and that all is good in the world.

Oh, and way to keep the lid on your sons' hormones! Heaven forbid they should learn that tool of the devil, masturbation, nevermind potentially read about musicians! *guffaw*

Re:wow

[Erasmus Darwin]

"it's the shoppers, the family-values crowd. They aren't as small a minority as you might think. They are the 15% who don't buy magazines (TIME, Rolling Stone, whatever) that offend them."

You're mistakenly assuming that all Wal-mart customers are people who shop their because they share the same family-value belief. There are many other reasons why people might shop at Wal-mart including price, convenience, and selection.

Re:wow

[johnnyb]

I don't see your complaint. Yes, Wal-Mart's view of a magazine is powerful. That _is_ their choice, and they are not evil for making that choice. Get over it.

If you dislike this control then you should read magazines which are not sold at Wal-Mart.

But really, is asking magazines for something that is decent for families to see really asking that much?

By the way, Rolling Stone often comes close to qualifying as soft-porn - at least their covers do.

Re:wow

[SirSlud]

Even if other retailers never get to sell the copy that the producer *wanted* to make? That every other retailer gets the 'Walmart' approved copy, and that those who create these things must sacrifice their intentions at the behest of one private entity?

Has the USA really gone mad like this? Can nobody see where this takes you? I'll give you one guess .. Walmart et. al become Government number II, and you kick yourself realizing that in disempowering your state, you empowered a few private citizens, who are bound, sooner or later, to do something which actually affects you, personally. It's a shame that it seems people need to have stuff infringe on their life before they recognize that that /. looney was worried not about the specifics of now, but the logical conclution of supporting those who do what you dont want your government to do, and get richer while doing it! It's sad and funny at the same time!

Re:wow

[johnnyb]

Oh no! They had to change their cover! Oh my, what's next!

Puhleease. This is silly. It's not like trying to not offend your customers is a nefarious purpose. What do you think they should do?

Re:wow

[SubtleNuance]

Brian~

You are exactly the kind of self-centred, ignorant boob that makes middle-america look like assholes.

Walmart is notorious for its slave-labour abuse, employee abuse - it runs willy-nilly in the business of producers and dictates their business TOO THEM, their censorship is All Too Real. If an RIAA(whore) wants to have a CD on the shelf at WalMart, they better not release the 'next-big' CD with something offensive to WalMart - they might find all their stuff in the back-racks, or off the shelves altogether... sheesh, give your head a shake.

Walmart is a monster in the marketplace causing irreparable damage to the real freedom people have in the market. How long will it be until WalMart has raised the bar on the retail business so far no one can even CHALLENGE them? For God's sakes, Windows is an ABUSIVE and OBVIOUS monopoly and there is not even the political will in America to fix that! WalMart is a much BIGGER company already, and its not even scratching the surface on the whole and total domination it is embarking on...

When walmart is has a monopoly on retail (laugh now...just wait) where they are responsible for 90% of all retail sales in the USA, and they alone can deliver products to the marketplace (because they have exclusivity arrangements with other mega-corps) you'll be singing a different tune about "loyal customer" and "freedom-loving-American" bullshit...

You idiots cant see beyond your self-serving myopia long enough to give a shit about the big picture - its almost laughable how you can be a 'loyal customer' of a mega-corp that couldn't give two-shits about you or anyone-else; they've demonstrated they Dont Care a million times - but you morons keep shoving $$$ in the bank for them....

Real Fucking Smart

Re:wow

[johnnyb]

The market does decide because a) the market goes to Wal-Mart and b) the market is the ones that go to Wal-Mart for it's family attitude.

Why is having questionable covers in family stores such a big deal?

The fact is, _families_ are who these magazine's customers are, and therefore them being more family-friendly to sell to their audience, who happens to shop at Wal-Mart, is not a crime.

Re:wow

[nathanm]

1. Walmart gets magainze covers changed before they are printed. That means, *every store* carries the 'walmart approved' copy. Thats not choice. Thats Walmart unfairly influencing what musicians (Nirvana is one such band that changed the cover of their CD before releasing it, *soley* due to Walmart issuing a complaint with their label.) and magazines wish to print.

There's nothing unfair about WalMart's policy. Nobody has a right to sell their products in any particular store. If they want to sell in WalMart, they'll just have to comply with their policies.

You really shouldn't talk like you do, in a country which claims free speech (both the right to be free of censorship, and the right to be free of undue pressures to self-censor.) is one of its founding principals.

The right of free speech is protection from the government. The first amendment starts out Congress shall make no law... Gee, I can't find WalMart anywhere in the US Constitution.

2. These are not soft-porn magazines. This is Time. Rolling Stone. Seventeen. All mainstream magazines.

Mainstream magazines and the advertisements therein show a lot more skin than they used to. Many people, myself included, see this as a problem. Just because something is popular doesn't make it right, or preferable. Personally, I could care less what's in these magazines, I just won't buy them.

Many magainzes specifically call up Walmart and seek approval for their covers pre-printed, because if Walmart refuses to carry the published run of the magazine, you cannot justify to stockholders, as a magazine publisher, giving up 15% of your sales right off the bat.

Then that's a choice they've made. No censorship involved.

Re:wow

[ceswiedler]

You're absolutely right, and that's capitalism and free speech at it's best.

The good news is that you don't have to shop at WalMart. You do not have a choice when it comes to laws, the government, and the constitution. And that's a major difference--really the only difference that matters.

Other powerful groups like the AARP, various lobbies, and Microsoft have major "unfair" effects on your life as well. That's just the way it is.

You're free to fight these groups, if you can get enough people to agree with you. If you can't get enough people to agree with you...tough titties.

I'll agree with you, once you stop whining.

Re:wow

[SirSlud]

To quoth all the free-marketers, let the market rather than the marketer decide?

Re:wow

[Jacer]

i can decide what's good for my myself...i don't need someone, or some corporation (wal-mart, m$) to tell me

Re:wow

[efatapo]

Wow, you're retarded. Whose choice do you think they were talking about? I imagine it's the consumers, and therefore your "censorship" argument doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Walmart still carries the the magazine/cd as long as it fits their standard. Just like if I go to the local movie theater I can choose between G-PG-PG13-R but usually nothing higher. That's not censorship, that's target audiences and how about just general decency. Not that I'm a fan of Walmart at all. Just think you should get your argument straight.

Re:wow

[realdpk]

They should not carry the magazines at all, if they find them offensive. Duh. It's that simple.

Re:wow

[SirSlud]

Of course, its all within the rules, and its all fair. I know. I'm simply attempting to raise awareness, because I feel many people dont even know this occurs. It may be within the rules, but you never progress unless you are aware of what those rules are, the things that influence them, and which ones could benifit from some revision, tuning, or adjustment.

Yes, I also bastardized the Constitution, but the ends justify the means - just because some guy has a title 'government' and another guy 'private store employee' doesn't mean that I'd prefer one over the other when it comes to how they affect my life. The constitution was drawn up when companies were not nearly as powerful as government. Now that they are more economically and culturally powerful than government (I leave out militarily for the sticklers who think this point is moot), the constitution, followed to the letter, does not neccessarily reflect the best way of seeding checks and balances into the American society, from my vantage point. Heck, I still havnt seen a universal argeement on what 'militia' refers to in these times in that right to bear arms amendment, so its not even like it _can_ be followed to the letter sometimes, either.

Definately one of the more constructive replies I've gotten, however.

Re:wow

[nullard]

There are many other reasons why people might shop at Wal-mart including price, convenience, and selection.

I only shop at Wal-Mart when everything else is closed. Where else can you get a wrench, a towel, and a television stand at 2:00 AM?

Re:wow

[pseudofrog]

ALL STORES GET THE WALMART APPROVED COPY, INCLUDING COMPETITORS

This is simple not true.

Many albums released have a Wal-Mart version and a version they sell elsewhere. I don't know where you are getting your information, but it is simple wrong.

Its too expensive to print the 'Walmart' copy, and the 'Everybody else' copy

Again, not true.

It is slightly more expensive to print different versions of a cover. But the cost of that is negligible. If a magazine cared enough, they could easily print two different covers. The fact is it doesn't matter enough to them.

I have no problem with so-called 'offensive' material, but I (or you) don't speak for a large portion of the market. Wal-Mart caters to the largest percentage of the market, and that is their choice.

Find something else to whine about.

-Matt

Re:wow

[bcboy]

Many, perhaps most of the people who shop at Walmart don't want their media selected by religious extremists. But they are either unaware of the policy, or unable to shop elsewhere since Walmart has put most of their competition out of business.

When they entered my home town, they didn't post signs on the entrance saying "WARNING: After we drive all the other stores out of business, and do the same all across America, we will control the market to such an extent that we can force our political agenda on you". This isn't a case of "loyal customers" getting what they want.
With the current situation a minority is able to force changes in the market which the majority don't want. This isn't "choice".

Re:wow

[SirSlud]

*clap clap* I couldn't have flamed him better myself.

And I'm all over the proportial vote .. we need that bad.

if I knew a girl in the toronto area who could formulate just a few of your viewpoints, I'd be in love. dam my sociopolitical frusterations.

Re:wow

[Anonymous Coward]

You know, it's sad when people argue in favor of "Raunchy Music" and indecent magazine covers. Sex has overrun our society in so many ways, I applaud Wal-Mart for attempting to limit this terrible phenomenon in any way possible. Even if it is only to gain market share. Wal-Mart is someplace that I feel comfortable going to purchase essential items. You can't beat the prices on their products, even brand name items, all at lower prices than most other places. They even have a nice garden department :)

Re:wow

[SirSlud]

>But really, is asking magazines for something that is decent for families to see really asking that much?

You could find out, if you ever had the opportunity to speak in the market. Oh, but wait! You dont get a chance to decide - Walmart does it for you! :)

Re:wow

[Anonymous Coward]

How is this a troll? Considering that Microsoft got Samsung to back off offering dual-boot PCs with BeOS, why is it such a stretch to think they did the same with Dell & Linux?

Re:wow

[reitoei1971]

Wal-mart is playing mother. Although it's not censoring the content of the magazine, it is censoring the cover which is what influences people. There are some things that simply appeal to people and magazine publishers use that to sell copy. Wal-mart is now saying that certain things are "bad" and trying to rewrite morals. And this isn't some public service to improve America's morality, it's just so they don't get complaints from some good Christian about what her kids are seeing while standing inline. They are forcing the same values and ideals on everyone. Clear controlling censorship.

Re:wow

[WNight]

Oh give it up. Everybody knows what you're saying, nobody is reacting because it's obvious and irrelevant.

If you want to sell to a bunch of people, you make a bland product. So what?

If the magazine cared enough about their covers they'd either print two runs (cheap when you print huge numbers) or ignore Walmart's demands.

If a boycott is good when we do it (don't buy MS, they're scum) why is a boycott bad when Walmart does it? It's a fundamentally democratic action, it's spending your money on products you wish to support.

If enough people care about this, they can demand that the cover is changed back, if they outweigh Walmart, they win.

Yes, I understand that this changes magazines I see on the stands. But I don't buy them because they're all bland mass-market crap. If I buy magazines, I buy smaller-run, independent stuff because that's what I want to support.

But really, this doesn't affect free speech. You're still free to say whatever you want, I'm still free to ignore it.

Re:wow

[Kintanon]

I don't like the way you seem to be defining 'Family' here. What you REALLY mean is children, right? Me and my Wife are a family. We enjoy porn, or even just slightly racy magazines, etc...

You're talking about the entire world catering to a section of the population under the age of 18 to make sure that they don't see anything that might offend their parents, who can't be bothered to teach them the values that will innure them to such influence. I'm constantly annoyed that I can't rent decent porn at blockbuster when me and my wife have a romantic weekend. The reason blockbuster doesn't carry it is that 'Family' friendly image. What they really mean to say is that they worship at the cult of baby and don't give a rats ass what the single/childfree people with disposable income want.

Kintanon

Re:wow

[DunbarTheInept]

Well, apparantly, the contents of the cover isn't so important to the publisher that they can't at least stick an extra page on the front to cover up the offending cover for issues sent to Walmart.

That's not what happens. The wallmart standards end up defining what will be published *everywhere*, not just at wallmart. I'd much rather see Walmart have the guts to actually *not carry* the material that offends them, instead of getting everyone else to change to their standard.

And just once I'd like to see a supplier with the guts to tell Wallmart "no", when Wallmart asks them to censor their product. Just once I'd like to see a supplier with the guts to say, "we'll accept the loss of 15% of the market in order to retain the loyalty of the other 85% of our customers."
This is becoming more commonplace: As the theory goes, an unregulated free-market ends up giving the customers exactly what they want, so the best thing to do is have absolutely no restrictions on it. But in practice, the product availability is blocked off at a level higher up the supply chain where the end-consumer doesn't have as much say. Then the stupid people analizing the situation come to the conclusion that nothing untoward is happening because the customers are buying the products, therefore they like them the way they are. This ignores the fact that the way the system is laid out the customer is largely ignorant of what the choices were that got filtered out before he saw them. Given a choice of product A or B the customer picked A, but the system hides the fact that the customer might have preferred C or D if they hadn't been scrapped before he ever saw them.

The problem is, I don't know what the solution to the situation is. It certainly isn't more government influence. In an informed marketplace, unrestricted capitalism leads to the greatest freedom, but the marketplace is not an informed one, and it becomes closer and closer to impossible with each passing year for the marketplace to ever become informed as the sheer volume of stuff to know in order to make an intelligent buying decision increases.

Re:wow

[SirSlud]

Its about who has the advantage is all. I like fairness. I'm whining because things arnt fair. I'm also whining because lots of people *think* things are fair, and I'd like them to know otherwise.
> Everybody knows what you're saying, nobody is reacting because it's obvious and irrelevant.

Thats your judgement. I dont believe people people are aware of the implications. If they are, sure, then its irrelevant. But its not. People do not know what you consider 'obvious'.

> If a boycott is good when we do it (don't buy MS, they're scum) why is a boycott bad when Walmart does it? It's a fundamentally democratic action, it's spending your money on products you wish to support.

Ooooh, now I know you're missing the difference. Walmart gets things changed. I'm free to boycott, as is Walmart. The point is, Walmart *doesnt* boycott, they use their size and power to pressure other entities into taking actions they would not have were it not for Walmarts monopolistic position. If I could call up MS and 'boycott' them by having them change their logo, or startup screen to say "SirSlud Rules!" (just to compare to a magazine cover in that the contents dont change), I'd feel alot less inclined to complain.

Re:wow

[goldmeer]

"free market" is when one retailer influences what *every retailer* in the market is going to get, as inventory? YOU PEOPLE DONT UNDERSTAND - ALL STORES GET THE WALMART APPROVED COPY, INCLUDING COMPETITORS. Its too expensive to print the 'Walmart' copy, and the 'Everybody else' copy, so all retailers get the 'Walmart' copy. Its about as anti-free market as you can get. The customers dont decide, the sales person does. I feel so sorry for you people.

You have to be kidding!

You completely discount the free will of the publishing companies to either "stick to their guns" and publish something without Wal-Mart's blessing or to publish 2 versions one for Wal-Mart, and one for The Rest Of The World(TM).

Don't hide behind the copout "It would cost more, therefore the stockholders of the publishing companies would not be happy if they did this" If you need to go this route, then WHO is really doing the "censoring" that you speak of? Wal-Mart, or the management of the publishing companies on behalf of the shareholders?

You see, this is as free market as it gets. Wal-Mart as a customer (They purchase goods, and sell them on to the masses) has decided that they will not purchase goods that they feel are not a good match with the image they want to project. The only real way for the "Free Market" to correct this is for the publishing companies to take up the battle and refuse to sell *anything* to Wal-Mart unless they drop their restrictive policies. Imagine if you could not purchase any "popular" magazines, music or computer game software from Wal-Mart because the industries have decided to boycott Wal-Mart.

How does this happen? The pressure for this to happen has to come from consumers. And as you are (or should be) aware, the consumers aren't all that likely to rise up in masses to put the pressure on the media publishers.

It's just a contest between the publishers, Wal-Mart and the public to see "Who has the biggest set" and right now, it's Wal-Mart.

Re:wow

[DunbarTheInept]

There are many other reasons why people might shop at Wal-mart including price, convenience, and selection.

... and the fact that this "family friendly" store squeezed out of existance all the local family-owned alternatives to shop at.

Re:wow

[ahodgson]

you really don't get it.

The Government says you can't do something - guys with guns come and take you away if you do it.

Walmart says you can't do something - you shop somewhere else, or sell your product somewhere else.

There is absolutely no comparison.

Besides, Walmart isn't restricting _you_, they are restricting their vendors. That the magazine or record label decides to comply in order to make a sale is not a restriction of free speech.

Re:wow

[SirSlud]

The Government says you can't do something - guys with guns come and take you away if you do it. Or, heck, heres an idea, I dont do it, and then I vote or write or work towards getting it changed. Or, if that doesn't work, I wonder why it comes advertised as a democracy, and either move or work towards changing it.

Walmart says you can't do something - you shop somewhere else, or sell your product somewhere else. Good idea, were it not for the WHOLE frickin point of this discussion is that there is an ever diminishing amount of options .. its even feasible there wont be *any* in the near future (to which I would imagine most idiots would say, "Good for walmart, they succeeded!"). And if I go ahead and do what they say I can't - guess who comes, carrying what, and takes me where. Gasp - the same folks!

This is about accountability, size, and candidacy. You are obviously more scared of your government than your companies. My view is you can always shed some blood and overthrow your government - but you cant do that with monopolies, because .. hey, what do you know, the government is in large part *there* to protect companies and you're certainly not going to try and overthrow your government in order to go after one of the many private entities that need to be taken down a notch or two.

Keep painting that market transparent, functioning, fair .. but dont bother me when the curtain falls and all hell breaks loose AND nobodies bothered themselves with the challenge getting the *real* muscle (the government) on their side.

Re:wow

[SirSlud]

> Don't hide behind the copout "It would cost more, therefore the stockholders of the publishing companies would not be happy if they did this" If you need to go this route, then WHO is really doing the "censoring" that you speak of? Wal-Mart, or the management of the publishing companies on behalf of the shareholders?

AhhHA! See? Maybe its /Walmarts/ stockholders, that refuse to swallow the cost of an unknown number of 'offended costomer' complains and bad PR. Or maybe its the publishers! It certainly is .. oh wait, I forgot we wouldn't be having this problem if Walmart wasn't so huge.

Nevermind that the Magazine industry has been very touch and go for the past few years, so they are hardly in the 'laughing all the way to the bank' position that Walmart is.

When it comes down to a tie in who bears responsibility, I will *always* nail the more well-off participant for not being thankful for their good situation and taking one for the team.

Re:wow

[Anonymous Coward]

Walmart is censoring your culture.

Time, Rolling Stone and Seventeen are not culture.

-Erik

Re:wow

[nathanm]

Heck, I still havnt seen a universal argeement on what 'militia' refers to in these times in that right to bear arms amendment, so its not even like it _can_ be followed to the letter sometimes, either.

No need for an agreement. Look no further than 10 USC Sec. 311, the official definition of militia codified in federal statutes. It states:

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

Seems pretty straight forward to me.

Re:wow

[queequeg1]

Great. So what solution would you propose? To force private parties to say and promote things they don't agree with? Aside from the fact that the founding principle of freedom of speech applies only to government restrictions, any all-encompassing right should also include the right to be silent if you wish. If Walmart would rather stay silent (i.e. not sell an objectionable cover), it should have the right to do so.

Re:wow

[DunbarTheInept]

in disempowering your state, you empowered a few private citizens, who are bound, sooner or later, to do something which actually affects you, personally.

Well said. The first myth about anarchy is the myth that anarchy is possible. Try it, and it won't last long. Ditch the government, and something else fills the space left behind, itself becoming the new government.

While it's true that companies competing in an open, fair market with free competition end up fufilling the common good whether they like it or not (capitalism can transform greed into a public good), it is NOT true that leaving the market alone will result in such an open, fair market with free competition, and that's the one sticking point that the Libertarians just don't get.

(Which is such a shame, because I agree with them on so many of their other issues that I'm still always temped to join them, but this one sticking point is a Very Big One.) Leave the market alone and in *many* markets you will get a free and open market, but not in all of them. Like it or not, natural monopolies do exist. People living in the same town have no choice but to choose the same water and sewer service provider as each other.

People who want to talk to each other on the phone would end up having to be hooked to the same phone provider as each other if the government didn't force phone companies to rent the use of their lines to each other at reasonable rates.

In the case of natural monopolies, there is going to end up being a restriction of choice anyway, whether it comes from government or from the one monopoly company that comes out on top. And the irony is that the way to maximize freedom in the marketplace it to establish rules that *force* companies to "play nice" with each other in these kinds of markets.

Now, some of the more moderate Libertarians on the fringes agree with this and understand that 100% full-blown lassiez-faire in every market isn't going to work. But then there are those that actually write the rhetoric literature and direct things, and they don't agree, and that scares me.

The reason government is an evil (a necessary evil, but still an evil) is *because* it is the biggest monopoly there is, and all the problems of monopolies that are not beholden to their customers tend to come up with governments. But replacing it with a corporate monopoly doesn't improve matters.

Re:wow

[johnnyb]

What they really mean to say is that they worship at the cult of baby and don't give a rats ass what the single/childfree people with disposable income want.

*********

I.e. - a significant portion of their customers.

As a parent, I don't want my child seeing racy stuff just walking in a store. I'd like to be able to _shop_ without having to explain why such material is indecent. Therefore, I go to Wal-Mart. It seems that a lot of people have the same idea (notice the number of children walking with their parents in walmart). These people constitute a _market_, and a large one at that. The beauty of capitalism is that the market decides. If you aren't a part of the mass market, don't go to mass-market places. It's that simple.

Is there nowhere else to find porn? I mean really, if blockbuster doesn't rent porn, find someone who does! It's not the end of the world. It's not like Ma and Pa Video requires a different kind of VCR to play their tapes.

It's not like buying at Target all-of-a-sudden makes your stuff incompatible with the rest of the world. It's not like Wal-Mart lies and cheats it's way to the top. They are what they say they are. The market likes them.

Re:wow

[SN74S181]

And I would much rather have the publishers have the guts to not be carried at Wallmart, rather than censor their product.

I doubt of the 'loyalty' of the other 85% of the publisher's customer base hinges on wether they include 'push-the-envelope' soft-porn splash covers on the magazine.

Re:wow

[errxn]

I'm whining because things arnt fair.

Well, welcome to the real world, chief. Yes, WalMart does get things changed, through market leverage and such. But it's still the choice of the publisher of the content to do the actual changing. The only reason that things get changed is because the publisher determines that it's in their best interest to do so.

The point is, WalMart is not pointing a gun at their head and forcing them to change their product. WalMart is simply telling the publisher, "we will not sell your product as it is in its current form", which is completely within their rights. Take it or leave it. The publishers can always choose to give WalMart nothing more than the middle finger.

I wouldn't exactly call this a monopolistic position, either. I can buy CDs at any number of outlets. I can buy just about anything available from WalMart at Target or (for now) KMart. Smells like consumer choice to me. And your argument smells suspiciously like anti-capitalism (the use of the "it's just not fair" phrase was a big red flag).

Re:wow

[johnnyb]

They should not carry the magazines at all, if they find them offensive. Duh. It's that simple.

********

Unless they don't find them offensive with different covers. Duh. It's that simple. The magazine _wants_ to be in Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart _wants_ to have the magazine if it's not offensive. This is good for both companies and the consumers.

Re:wow

[SN74S181]

You're crazy if you think WalMart could ever capture 90% of the market of retail sales. Here in south central Indiana, there are a myriad of choices of where to shop. There always will be. WalMart is a dismal place to purchase a lot of items, with limited choice, which naturally leaves an opening for other retailers to do well in a market.

There's no mechanism by which WalMart could capture said 90% of the market, except by some sort of command-economy edict, and that kind of stuff, frankly, comes from the 'big bizzness is bad' 'the gubbermint can help fight those big bizznesses' types, who you seem to align yourself with.

Re:wow

[SN74S181]

they would not have were it not for Walmarts monopolistic position

Now, hold on a minute here. WalMart is not a monopoly. You should be more careful in how you use langauge. The DOJ made a vigorous and expensive effort to get Microsoft identified as a Monopoly. If you go throwing the word around in ways it's NOT defined, you weaken the strength of the case against Microsoft.

The Postal Service is a Monopoly, the Social Security Administration is a Monopoly. WalMart is hardly a monopoly.

Re:wow

[Sloppy]

Even if other retailers never get to sell the copy that the producer *wanted* to make?

This can only happen if the producer sells out, deciding that Walmart sales are more important than art. And if that's the case, then I don't give a fuck about whatever he was going to say.

("I may not agree with what you say, but I'll fight to the death for your right t-- oh, what's that? You don't think your own speech is important enough to sacrifice a little in the marketplace? Forget what I was going to say about fighting to the death.")

If it's anything at all important, then other retailers will have the copy that the producer wanted to make, and Walmart won't have it at all.

Can nobody see where this takes you?

It takes me to where I am today, where I buy almost all my music CDs from internet stores, and the chances that Walmart carries any particular CD that I want, is somewhere between 1% to 5%. And it's not a big deal. If anything, it's good: some businesses have good reason to fear Walmart, but with Walmart voluntarily choosing not to compete in certain areas, other businesses thankfully have it easier. Nobody is having their rights infringed.

Re:wow

[tryfan]

> Then that's a choice they've made. No censorship involved.

Exceptional comment. This is almost exactly how movie censorship works in Sweden. If you want to show your movie on big cinemas, you have to have it approved by the censorship board. If not, you can show it anyway, for example on satellite channels. It's your choice.

If you don't think the Walmart system (since they are so dominating) is censorship, then you are either blind or otherwise challenged.

Re:wow

[slam smith]

The reason the mega corps are taking over is really quite simple. Better service, better selection, better prices, better locations, and often better products. If mom and pop stores could provide the service, selection, etc., that walmart, target, home depot, barnes and noble, costco, etc provide, then these little stores wouldn't be going out of business. It's called economy of scale and it usually kicks the shit out of mom and pop stores, whether you like it or not.

The "big picture" is that these stores thrive because they do a much better job at serving the customer. Alarmism aside, walmart isn't in going to take over the world any time soon (likely never), they have quite a bit of competition, They aren't even close to a monopoly.

Re:wow

[MAXOMENOS]

Respectfully, you are downplaying Wal-Mart's influence.

They don't just dictate what goes on the magazine covers; sometimes they dictate what goes in the magazine itself.

They don't just change the album covers; they sometimes change the lyrics, censor lyrics (excuse me, "make distribution of the album conditional upon a change of lyrics"), or remove songs entirely.

Don't even get me started on the whole women's health thing.

In a lot of very real ways, Wal-mart doesn't just offer consumers a choice, it determines what consumers can choose, in and out of its stores. Is this what capitalism is meant to support?

Re:wow

[Anonymous Coward]

Nirvana is one such band that changed the cover of their CD before releasing it, *soley* due to Walmart issuing a complaint with their label.

The lesson being: don't shop for music at Walmart, because they only carry music played by corporate sellouts.

Re:wow

[Mr. McGibby]

Walmart seems to think that you are incapable of even "viewing" a potentially controversial cover and making a decision whether or not to buy it - they make the choice for you!

No they didn't. They may make the individual decisions on what covers to accept and reject now, but that decision was made and foisted upon Walmart by their customers, at least those customers vocal enough to demand that inappropriate magazine covers be changed or removed from the shelf. Either they did it directly to Walmart or it was just threatened by the leader of a family rights organization, but the threat of a boycott from that type of group was sufficient to make Walmart censor magazine covers. Apparantly, the threat of boycott from the other side wasn't enough to convince them. Basically, Walmart is listening to their customers, an IMPORTANT part of a free market. Are you saying that they shouldn't respond to the threat of a boycott?

And pardon me for wanting my sons to learn about sex from their *parents*, and not from the popular culture which has hugely warped view of the entire thing. When they are old enough to understand sex from an *educated* point of view, then I think they are old enough to understand that much of the popular view of it is backward and perverted.

Re:wow

[MAXOMENOS]

If a boycott is good when we do it (don't buy MS, they're scum) why is a boycott bad when Walmart does it? It's a fundamentally democratic action, it's spending your money on products you wish to support.

I think you may be comparing apples to oranges. In the former case, you're talking about individual customers (thousands or millions of individuals) making the choice. In the latter case, you're talking about a few Wal-mart employees (the people who decide what products go on the shelves) making the choice. In fact, you may even find that Wal-mart's relatively few decision makers have significantly greater power than all but the largest grass-roots efforts. This does not strike me as democratic, at least not strictly speaking.

Re:wow

[Anonymous Coward]

By that exact same reasoning, you are hereby required to purchase all the lastest pop-music CD's. You say you don't like them? Well, you're censoring them based on your musical tastes. If they want you to buy it, they'll have to change the music. That, to me, is "clear controlling censorship."

Re:wow

[Mr. McGibby]

Maybe the family-owned alternatives should have learned to compete in a free market. Seriously though, at what point does a small "good" store (that you would support) become a large "evil" store? When it puts another store out of business? Even small stores put other small stores out of business in the same way that Walmart destroyed the competition: location, price, convenience, etc. The reason that Walmart is so popular is because of its pentration into rural areas where your "family-owned alternatives" used to rule. These "family-owned alternatives" made the problem of rural poverty even worse because of their higher prices and lack of selection. Walmart offered people in rural areas lower prices and the selection of urban areas. Now people in Nowhere, Utah can buy a TV for the same price that people in the big city do. Why is that a bad thing?

Re:wow

[Kintanon]

Part of it is location, I've made a choice to not have a car for various reasons. So I'm limited in the distance I can travel. Luckily I live in an area where I don't have to shop at walmart, or rent movies from blockbuster. So this isn't a problem for me personally.

However, you people with kids cost stores a lot more than I do. Your kids mess up the ailes, futz with the merchandise, handle the food, make messes that the employees have to clean up and annoy the other customers (Not necessarily your kids in particular, but possibly). I on the other hand, go in, buy all my stuff and leave. I make life easy for the cashiers, and I have more disposable income than most parents.

Oh, and as a point to ponder, the childfree population is growing rapidly, so someday you just might have to deal with the opposite situation where your kids aren't allowed into a resteraunt after 8pm, or can't get into certain movie theatres, etc... because the childfree people want to have their dinner and see their movie without being disturbed by your babbling brood of sub-literate vermin.
No offense meant to you personally or your family, and children, just a comment on the general state of children and parents in my area.

Kintanon

Re:wow

[sahala]

Obviously this is allll getting offtopic....

I'd like to be able to _shop_ without having to explain why such material is indecent.

I may sound overly critical here, but it really sounds like you're just avoiding an uncomfortable situation. I guess in the US sex is a very taboo thing, whereas violence seems to be quite acceptable -- look at violence oriented toys/publications.

Now admittedly I am not a parent but I do know parents that have a very open attitude toward sex education. Rather than shielding their kids from racy scenes in movies and media they explain what's going on and talk about how it's something for "adult"s, much like staying up later than bedtime or going to work in the morning. I know this probably sounds like Jimbo's Dad in American Pie, but it's really not that awkward.

Now only the future will tell whether their children will grow up to be emotionally stable and respecting human beings, but I would wager a guess that their practices will help somewhat. Then again, I have no right to tell other people what the best way to raise children are. I imagine this is probably a moot point.

I just personally wish people in the US were less uptight about human sexuality in general. Europe in general is much more allowing in that aspect and I don't think it has had any harmful effects on society, though I have no numbers to back this up.

Re:wow

[nathanm]

This is almost exactly how movie censorship works in Sweden. If you want to show your movie on big cinemas, you have to have it approved by the censorship board. If not, you can show it anyway, for example on satellite channels.

This is a bad analogy. Most Americans have a multitude of choices where to shop. Where I live (Minneapolis) there are literally hundreds of places to shop more convenient, and usually just as cheap, as WalMart.

If you don't think the Walmart system (since they are so dominating) is censorship, then you are either blind or otherwise challenged.

How is WalMart dominating? Elsewhere under this article, I've seen a figure of 15% market share for WalMart. I don't know how accurate it is, but that's hardly dominating. There are plenty of other retailers to sell your products in.

Re:wow

[good-n-nappy]

It is certainly true that we have less options but that did not start with Walmart censoring magazine covers. You need to follow this thru to the logical conclusion. We're talking about less choices in magazine covers -> Why? because the magazine publishers only make one cover for everyone. So the problem is that there isn't enough choice in the magazine market -> Why? because several large companies control magazine publishing -> Why? because making a shiny, air-brushed, super-polished magazine takes a lot of money -> Why do we want shiny, air-brushed, super-polished magazines? because we are anesthetized by years of buying increasingly shiniy, air-brushed, super-polished, mass produced sh*t. It all started with the idea of mass production and we're slowly reaching the logical conclusion. We're becoming mass produced humans. You'd think a tirade like this would have some ultimate political message but it doesn't. I am as spoiled by mass production as everyone else so I'm probably not going to fight the system (yet) just so I can live with a choice between lower quality goods.

I agree with the parent that all hell will break loose some day. But I think it will be the world's oppressed taking on the oppressor.

Re:wow

[legoboy]

Gee, are you Canadian?

Oh, look! Your .sig says you are! What a surprise. Colour me shocked. Not.

Lesson to readers: Canada's left is tired and dying, but they'll continue to hate success until they finally perish.

Ever heard of the internet, you clueless idjit? Why don't you start up a 'notsoldatwalmart.com (er, wait, you're a lame Canadian - notsoldatwalmart.ca) website which sells all sorts of "censored" not-sold-at-walmart goods? Hell, if there's a big enough market for you, you could even open small stores right across the street from Walmart stores. You'd be able to sell CDs with lame covers to your heart's content to teenagers who think that having the covers in their possession makes them (the teenager) cool. Walmart won't stop you from doing it, company name aside. Niche players can easily coexist with Walmart. Whiners, it seems, cannot.

Re:wow

[scot4875]

you really don't get it.

No, *you* really don't get it. Walmart is preventing you from getting an alternate product somewhere else, because the alternate product DOES NOT EXIST. Walmart prevents the alternate product from ever appearing on any store shelves, so there's no reason to shop elsewhere, because you can't get anything different anywhere else.

The argument here is that Walmart shouldn't get to decide what the public gets to see, but they do. They're enforcing censorship through monopolistic tactics. (Walmart isn't exactly a monopoly, but they account for enough sales to bend manufacturers/publishers to their will.)

I'm not for censorship -- I'm not an idiot -- but if we had to have it, I'd *much* rather see it come from the government. I at *least* get to vote for my elected officials. I don't get any say whatsoever about who's running Walmart, and Walton's heirs aren't accountable to me in any way.

People just don't seem to realize how insidious all of this really is. Yes, it's entirely within the rules. So was what Arthur Anderson was doing with Enron. Just because it's "within the rules" doesn't make it right. Just because you don't see it happening doesn't make it okay.

I admire the amount of effort SirSlud has put into this thread. Too bad it's falling on a lot of deaf ears.

--Jeremy

Re:wow

[swillden]

Exceptional comment. This is almost exactly how movie censorship works in Sweden. If you want to show your movie on big cinemas, you have to have it approved by the censorship board. If not, you can show it anyway, for example on satellite channels. It's your choice.

What prevents someone from starting their own cinema that shows the unapproved movies?

If it's a law, then, yes this is censorship. If it's just that theatres that show unapproved movies don't get any business and fold... that's not censorship, that's public choice.

In the case of Wal-mart, there are other outlets and there always will be. The government is the only organization with the power to legally force decisions on people. Business has a lot of power to *persuade*, but that's different.

Now, in some areas there are worrisome indications that business is controlling the government and using its power to coerce people, and that's a big problem and one we have to fight.

This censorship by Wal-Mart does not fall into that category.

Re:wow

[Unregistered]

in a country that claims to be free of GOVERNEMNT sencorship. If the buyer (Walmart) doesn't like the product, they don't have to buy it. If you are selling to someone that big and they want something, you givve them that. Its buisness, not censorship. Cesnorship would mean that comnpanies had to change the covers. Guess what, they don't. Since they want to make money they do what the customer wants.

Re:wow

[protonman]

> And your argument smells suspiciously like
> anti-capitalism

Which, just like speling erors, makes someone automaticly wrong.

Re:wow

[n08ody]

Are you saying that if I had my own store. I would be forced to carry what ever you tell me carry/sell?

Because this is a free country, Wal-Mart, or whoever else, can request whatever they want. If you are an artist and Wal-Mart ask you change the title of a song to something less graphic (see Nirvana's Rape Me which was changed to Waif Me on In Utero) then you are FREE to either change it or not. You can circumvent Wal-Mart and try to sell your album without them. Wal-Mart is FREE to carry your album or not. That is why they are a private business.

Tell me, do you always speak your mind? Or do you CENSOR your thoughts to make them appropriate for the situation you are in?

That is freedom my friend. Look it up.

Re:wow

[cadallin451]

The problem is that Wal-Mart is such a major distribution power. What if telecoms "made a choice" that they are no longer going allow you to transmit information of which they don't approve. I suppose that isn't censorship either. They are both private companies, and both control means of distribution.

Once a company reaches a certain level of size and control of its given market they SHOULD lose much of their choices, because it is censorship, and it is dangerous. It is someone saying, "This you may not hear, this you may not see, this you are forbidden to know." It does not matter whether the entity is public or private. The decision whether or not to view something should rest ultimately with the consumer, and if some delicate little sensibilities are upset along the way, too bad.

Grow up. People bleed, People die. Babies aren't brought by the stork, and they don't come from under cabbage leaves. Real live is rated at least NC-17, and if you don't like it, live in a bubble, but there's no reason the rest of us should sacrifice to make it easy for you.

Re:wow

[jedidiah]

> As a parent, I don't want my child seeing racy
> stuff just walking in a store. I'd like to be able
>to _shop_ without having to explain why such
> material is indecent.

Then go join the Amish and don't inconvenience the rest of us.

Re:wow

[jedidiah]

What this really boils down to is the fact that todays publishers simply have no backbone. What makes this especially depressing is the fact that the "censored" companies involved are themselves giants. They should be able to survive the negative effects of not being sold in Wal-mart for a month.

Time is certainly big enough to tell Walmart to "bugger off". Yet they choose to bow and scrape for a relatively small proportion of their total sales. The problem here is not that Walmart has power to abuse. The problem here is that our so-called journalists are actually whores that will sell out at the drop of a hat. If they are too frightened to stand up to Walmart, whom else are they not bothering to "stand up to".

Re:wow

[Anonymous Coward]

And wal-mart is also loosing some money when it refuses to sell those magazines you claim it sensors, wal-mart made its choice of not selling this type of magazines and make less money!
Don't compare this to some sort of monopoly they influences others, magazine publishers are not direct competitors to wal-mart, and again this rule causes money loss to wal-mart and a moral leverage!

Re:wow

[nathanm]

The problem is that Wal-Mart is such a major distribution power. What if telecoms "made a choice" that they are no longer going allow you to transmit information of which they don't approve. I suppose that isn't censorship either. They are both private companies, and both control means of distribution.

If all the telecoms conspired to block certain information, it would be collusion, which is illegal. This is what the big 5 recording companies got slapped by the FTC for price-fixing CDs (not that the prices have changed any). Also, they do not control the means of distribution, only one mean. There are plenty of other retailers that carry products WalMart doesn't.

Once a company reaches a certain level of size and control of its given market they SHOULD lose much of their choices, because it is censorship, and it is dangerous. It is someone saying, "This you may not hear, this you may not see, this you are forbidden to know." It does not matter whether the entity is public or private. The decision whether or not to view something should rest ultimately with the consumer, and if some delicate little sensibilities are upset along the way, too bad.

So WalMart should be forced to carry everything under the sun, no matter how dangerous or objectionable? You want unlimited individual freedom, but want to force large corporations' behavior. You can't have it both ways. Freedom of choice must be protected for all. Besides, we may have the right to freedom of speech, but we don't have a right to be heard.

Grow up. People bleed, People die. Babies aren't brought by the stork, and they don't come from under cabbage leaves. Real live is rated at least NC-17, and if you don't like it, live in a bubble, but there's no reason the rest of us should sacrifice to make it easy for you.

<SARCASM>Really? Then how are babies made?</SARCASM> Like I said in my previous post: I could care less, I just won't buy the stuff. I'm not asking anyone to make any sacrifices, just let corporations have the same freedom of choice you expect yourself. And my life is rated PG (besides the bathroom & bedroom).

Re:wow

[nathanm]

I agree.

Time is certainly big enough to tell Walmart to "bugger off".

And the fact that they regularly produce localized covers in many places. They did a Minnesota only cover when Jesse Ventura was elected governor here (a day that will live in infamy, luckily he decided not to run for re-election, he would have been squashed at the polls). It was an extra cover over the top of the national cover.

Other large magazines do similar things: local advertising news or inserts depending on where you buy it or your subscription address.

Re:wow

[KWSN-MajorKong]

It is so nice to see one evil mega-corp giving another one the shaft.

Way to go Waltons!

Re:wow

[DunbarTheInept]

The point is that there are reasons besides the ones that were given for shopping at wallmart, when they are the only game in town. Whether that happend because the other businesses screwed up or not is irrelevant to the person who finds himself walking in to wallmart to buy his new TV. Price, selection, and convenience are irrelevant when they're the only game in town.

Re:wow

[Daengbo]

First of all, I think this whole thread is useless, but, even so, you have more DISPOSABLE income than the parents do, but the parents will, on average, have MORE INCOME than you, and it's not disposable only because they're spending it all on their children at, oh, say, Wal-Mart. So who would Wal-Mart care more about? You made a choice not to have a car, you make the following choice that shopping is more difficult. (By the way, I also have no car, because the government here taxes autos at more then 100%)

Re:wow

[Daengbo]

What is that? UNABLE to shop somewhere else. I want to laugh, but I may cry instead. Yes, Wal-mart put some smaller stores out of business, but the rural Shenandoah valley near my parents thriving farm town of 1500 people has Walmart, oh yeah and a Target, oh yeah and threee malls within a few miles, where everyone REALLY shops on weekends anyways. It will always be that way. Before there was wal-mart, there was Sears. Maybe you could call them a monopoly a hundred years ago in a small town, because they were the only major mail order vendor, but even that is a stretch, I think. There is always one big retailer that corners all of ooooh 20% of the market. That's nowhere near a monopoly. Wake up. Shop somewhere else. Write a letter to those magazines and CDs produced by the media companies that you hate so much about why they can produce a cover for one state, but can't produce a Wal-Mart cover and have to change every magazine. (You know what? WM gets most of the press, but the same pressure is on the publishers from most major retailers)

Re:wow

[SubtleNuance]

but they'll continue to hate success until they finally perish.

Walmart as "success" is *VERY* telling of how warped you (and those who shop at and have no issues of conscience) at walmart.

Christ, what a fucked-up, greedy selfcentered and base world you must live in.

Re:wow

[legoboy]

Yeah, that certainly was a reply worth making.

Just because you're rabidly anti-American, you don't need to hate every person, place, or thing that is American.

Only an utter moron wouldn't buy something at a Walmart if it were all of: cheaper, equivalent or better quality, and in a store at a convenient location.

90% of all retail sales in the US. Why am I even wasting my time on such a stupid troll?

Re:wow

[mackstann]

I agree, Wal Mart is home of cheapo everything, PC's included. They don't give 2 shits about Linux, it's about sales. I'm interested to see *normal* people asking questions about Mandrake, it should be fun. (in a masochistic way)

Re:wow

[AME]

Then go join the Amish and don't inconvenience the rest of us.

I think it's kind of funny that the user who said this styles himself 'jedidiah' and has a user number to indicate he didn't just make the login for the joke.

Re:wow

[SubtleNuance]

Only an utter moron wouldn't buy something at a Walmart if it were all of: cheaper, equivalent or better quality, and in a store at a convenient location

I dont make my decisions based on the parameters defined by Capitalists. The fact that Walmart doesnt support local economies, exploits vendors, employees and manufacturer's workers prevents me from considering those other factors. I would go without or shop somewhere else.

only a complete fucking moron blindly accepts the role of consumer and accepts the pre-defined 'important' issues as definded by Capitalist "Economics".

A person of conscience will broaden the proposition and analyse it in total, a MORON cannot see beyond the LowLowLowPrices.

Are you willing to admit you would rather be an accomplice to WalMart's transgressions because it is more convenient and cheaper for you?

As for 90% of sales, how long will the growth for walmart's present Big-Bomb-Mega-Superstore, how long until their growth levels off and Walmart starts to buy up chains in other market segments and competitiors? I dont think you understand how big a force WalMart is, and how big they are about to become...

Re:wow

[SubtleNuance]

s/definded/defined; s/competitiors/competitors

Re:wow

[Mr. McGibby]

What was implied however, was that somehow the group of walmart shoppers opposed to offensive magazine covers, were actually a small insignificant minority who were forcing their will upon the customers who find walmart "the only game in town". The problem is that most people who shop at walmart *do* want covers to not be offensive and don't mind if the power of walmart can do that for them. Many folks who feel as I do feel powerless against a corporate america intent on feeding popular culture instead of being responsible corporate citizens, and we welcome the chance for a group/company who represents our feelings/ideals large enough to make a difference.

Re:wow

[Kintanon]

Yes, I acknowledged my choice and I'm happy with it.
And as for parents having income remember that a lot of their income is going to be tied up with medical bills, house payments, car payments, etc... Not available for them to spend on crap for their kids. Also I am more likely to have more income in general than parents studies have shown that people in higher income brackets have fewer kids, frequently none. Of course, Bill Gates has kids, so that screws the whole average.>:)

Kintanon

Re:wow

[Anonymous Coward]

well, yeah. If I offer red widgets and WalMart says to me "we'll buy a shitload of 'em if you make them blue," well guess friggin' what - I'm makin' blue widgets. There's no "censorship," I'm responding to the market, just like every other business has to do one way or another.

If this bothers you, then don't shop at WalMart. If enough people felt the same way then WalMart would change. Why would they change? Because they too, big as they are, have to respond to the market just like everybody else.

Re:wow

[thomas.galvin]

Even if other retailers never get to sell the copy that the producer *wanted* to make? That every other retailer gets the 'Walmart' approved copy, and that those who create these things must sacrifice their intentions at the behest of one private entity?

People choose to shop at WalMart, making them the most powerful retailer, and implicitly giving weight to their opinions as to what is appropriate and what is not.

WalMart only has as much power as we give to them. Publishers are welcome to distribute through other means, people are welcome to shop at other stores. If no one does so, it is on their heads.

But no. WalMart is to blame for taking a moral stand. Those rat bastards! How dare they conduct their business in a way that will let them sleep better at night!

Re:wow

[DunbarTheInept]

The problem is that most people who shop at walmart *do* want covers to not be offensive

Well, *everyone* wants things not to be offensive - simply by the definition of what the word "offensive" means. The problem is that different people find different things offensive.

The claim I think you are trying to make is that most walmart customers agree with walmart's stance on what is and isn't offensive.

I'd like to see you back that up.

Re:wow

[Anonymous Coward]

For all we know, this is brinksmanship, and Wal Mart is just trying to push MS into giving them special deals on OS pricing.

Push? Don't you mean negotiate? If a supplier wants to charge you more for a produce than you can afford to pay and still make a profit, what do you do? Find a different supplier and a different product until they come around.

It's fairly simple economics.

Re:wow

[Mr. McGibby]

First of all, how the hell am I supposed to back it up? Conduct a survey?

Anyway, perhaps you aren't aware of the numerous campaigns against different stores through the years (Circle-K, KMart, etc.) to get them to take offensive magazines off the shelf. Most of them are successful! Most stores don't want to bring on the wrath and bad publicity of millions of family-values-oriented americans. And why do you ask, is it such bad publicity? Because most people don't want offensive (however you define the term is unimportant, you know what I mean) magazines in the stores that they shop at. And how do I know that this is true for most or many people? Because if it wasn't true, and there weren't that many people who cared, then it wouldn't be bad publicity!

I think Walmart has come to a good comprimise. They don't outright ban those magazines, but they don't allow their publishers to put covers, which we are all forced to see, in the stores that a large group of people will be offended by.

Re:wow

[DunbarTheInept]

First of all, how the hell am I supposed to back it up? Conduct a survey?

That's what I thought. You *felt* it was true without really *knowing* it is true, and made the claim based on that gut feeling.

Because most people don't want offensive (however you define the term is unimportant, you know what I mean) magazines in the stores that they shop at.

I see offensive written material in stores all the time, like the Bible - which is more corruptive than any smut magazine could ever hope to be.

Companies are in the same boat you are with regards to predicting what their customers want - they don't really know, so they guess. They guess the number of people offended by a particular magazine cover is large, so they guess that the impact of carrying it would be large, and so they decide not to carry it unless the publisher changes the cover. But it's all based on pure guesswork, and the fallacy of believing that the most vocal group must be the majority group. If something does not offend you, you aren't going to start up a grassroots campaign to publicize the fact that it isn't offensive to you. Negative comments always outnumber positive ones when it comes to customer feedback, because the people who are annoyed feel a greater need to say something than the ones that are satsified.

Who's tried Lindows?

[Anonymous Coward]

Chances are, anyone that comes to /. isn't going to get near something like Lindows, but I was wondering if anyone's used it yet? I'm just curious of what it's like. Any notable features?

Re:Who's tried Lindows?

[macdaddy357]

I'd like to try Lindows, but you have to cough up $99 to join their insiders program, and sign a non-disclosure agreement, so I haven't. Lycoris is another distro aimed at the desktop for people who only know windows, and you can download it free. http://www.lycoris.org/

Re:Who's tried Lindows?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does anyone know if you buy one of the Lindows systems already mentioned if you have to sign an NDA? That would certainly be a first, if you actually have to sign something to boot your computer.

Re:Who's tried Lindows?

[tbetz]

... or you have to buy a $299 PC with it pre-loaded from Walmart.

Until I heard it always runs as root, I was tempted; after all, you can always reformat the HD.

Re:Who's tried Lindows?

[Cro Magnon]

DOES it always run as root? Or is it just a stupid default that you can change?

This is a good thing.

[HowlinMad]

Most people that will be buying a computer from Walmart will be new to linux, so Mandrake is a good distro to start off with.

Re:This is a good thing.

[SirRichardPumpaloaf]

Yes, Mandrake is indeed an excellent distro for them to immediately erase and install their cousin's copy of Windows XP over.

Re:This is a good thing.

[Anonymous Coward]

they sell OS less pc's as well, you fucking moron.

Re:This is a good thing.

[Anonymous Coward]

> Most people that will be buying a computer from Walmart will be new to linux, so Mandrake is a good distro to start off with.

I hope Mandrake includes a good "Introduction to Linux" booklet explaining device naming conventions, filesystems, permissions, etc, or "most people" who've only seen Windows will be confoozed.

With a good introduction, Mandrake would be a good start. Without...

Re:This is a good thing.

[i_am_nitrogen]

Have you ever used LindowsOS? While I personally use Mandrake quite extensively, I wouldn't expect the "average Walmart customer" (as that phrase seems to be so popular here on /.) to fully appreciate it. LindowsOS is, in fact, significantly easier to use in 99% of situations. Personally, I'd rather edit /etc/smb/samba.conf than run a wizard, but does, say, your grandmother want to be confronted by a strange blue dialog in "text mode" saying that a new mouse has been found, and asking her what to do, or would she rather it just start working right away? In no way am I discrediting Mandrake (or likewise favoring LindowsOS), I'm just saying that for your average desktop user, Mandrake isn't as ideal as LindowsOS, and for your average techie, LindowsOS isn't as ideal as Mandrake, SuSE, Debian, or Gentoo (I use gentoo a lot as well - but I have to wonder if the time saved by applications running faster is greater than the time spent compiling ;p).

Re:What about...

[Anonymous Coward]

I am Lothar of the hill people! Much have I seen and much have I done.

Hardware Reliability?

[ebh]

With all the talk about Microtel's various neat ways to avoid the M$ tax, can anyone comment about the quality or reliability of the hardware?

It'd be nice to know if this would be a candidate for my next Cheap Linux Box, or if I'd be better off going to a local screwdriver shop.

Re:Hardware Reliability?

[Anonymous Coward]

I own a microtell in the amd 1800 xp flavor.

I also have linux and win2k dualbooted on it.

No problems whatsoever.

It's been like 3 stories on those Walmart PCs?

[Papineau]

Why so much stories on that same topic? If it's a really important topic, give it a category so I'll be able to filter them!

There's been plenty of retailers shipping PCs with Linux (or OS-less). None of the size of Walmart, I agree. But I don't know much people looking to Walmart for PCs. Neither I know people going to Walmart for a dishwasher of a freezer. A PC might have become a commodity, but there are commodities better handled by more knowledgeable businesses. And they usually have a larger selection to boot.
</RANT>

Re:It's been like 3 stories on those Walmart PCs?

[RealisticWeb.com]

There's been plenty of retailers shipping PCs with Linux

Really? I would love to hear who they are? Not just some but PLENTY? This is news to me. I would love for you to list three or four. Or did you mean that in past tense? I would agree with that, there USED to be plenty, but M$ put them out of business, or got them to stop. I do have to agree with you though on the point that there have been alot of stories about this lately. Maybe a walmart roundup would be in order?

Re:It's been like 3 stories on those Walmart PCs?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's the online store, not the walk-in store.

Microtel is knowledgeable enough to handle PCs. Walmart.com is offering the "online shopping cart" infrastructure for Microtel to sell their decent PCs.

Have you seen the selection on walmart.com?

13 models w/o an OS

10 models w/ Windows

8 models w/ Lindows

Re:It's been like 3 stories on those Walmart PCs?

[Anonymous Coward]

translation:
'since i am l33t and know a k3wl hax0r shop that sells OS-less PC's, i don't understand how everyone else in america can not also know.
don't they teach computer building in pre-k these days?'
if you got out of the house ever you might meet someone who (dun-duh-dah) DOESN"T KNOW WHERE TO LOOK WHEN TRYING TO BUY A PC and (gasp!) SHOPS AT WAL-MART BECAUSE IT IS A STORE THEY KNOW AND TRUST.
get a grip on reality l33t boy, it's important because it affects computer users who are not uber-geeks like you which happen to make up the majority of the computing population.
god, i get so sick of the ignorance masquerading as intelligence on this site.
you must not do any tech support or you'd know what the average person knows about buying a PC, OS or no.

Re:It's been like 3 stories on those Walmart PCs?

[SirRichardPumpaloaf]

Talk about your unsupported assertions, what's this about "M$" putting companies out of business for selling Linux PC's? Wouldn't it be more accurate to say that those companies put themselves out of business, by hawking a product that nobody wants?

Re:It's been like 3 stories on those Walmart PCs?

[Papineau]

When I'm looking for a car, I go to a car dealer.
When I'm looking for a some furniture, I go to a furniture store.
When I'm looking for food, I go to a grocery.
When I'm looking for construction tools, I go to a hardware store.
WHen I'm looking for a PC, I go to a PC store.

If you don't know where to go shop for something, the yellow pages are your friend. AFAIK, Walmart is not listed under "Computers", but Best Buy might and there are a lot of Mom and Pop shops.

End of story.

Re:It's been like 3 stories on those Walmart PCs?

[afidel]

A PC might have become a commodity, but there are commodities better handled by more knowledgeable businesses. And they usually have a larger selection to boot.

What like Circuit City, Best Buy, and CompUSA??? Hehehehehe.

Re:It's been like 3 stories on those Walmart PCs?

[Waffle Iron]

Have you been to a Super Wal-Mart lately? You can get everything on your list there (well, maybe not the car). Why waste gas driving to all of those other stores?

Re:It's been like 3 stories on those Walmart PCs?

[MindStalker]

I think he just meant MS forced them to stop selling linux computers. As yes, it is very hard to run a buisness selling ONLY linux computers (though possible if your in the high end server market, but thats tough too). And if you can't get a MS OEM license, you may have a hard time selling MS computers at competative prices.

Re:It's been like 3 stories on those Walmart PCs?

[Papineau]

Choice, quality, and I'm not sure where's the Wal-Mart around here.

Re:It's been like 3 stories on those Walmart PCs?

[Anonymous Coward]

super walmart usually has pretty good produce, which is what I judge a grocery store on. That, and tortillas.

Re:It's been like 3 stories on those Walmart PCs?

[jlleblanc]

I know plenty of people who would buy a PC or stereo or TV or anything at Wal-Mart. They're called bargain hunters. They see the Dell Dude selling them some computer for e-mail and word processing at $800. They then see a word processing and e-mailing computer for $400 at Wal-Mart. The one at wal-mart is cheaper and within easier reach (you can grab it right off the shelf), so it ends up being the one purchased.

Re:It's been like 3 stories on those Walmart PCs?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because your time is SO important, right?

Re:It's been like 3 stories on those Walmart PCs?

[DoctorFrog]

Wal-Mart announced recently (dead-tree article, no link) that they are going to start selling cars.

Specifically, they'll be selling "program" cars from a major national rental chain (the article didn't say which one), no trade-ins, no haggling, 90-day return policy.

YES!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not a Mandrake user (I prefer Slackware), but I know that Mandrake has an excellent desktop distro, and it's great to see a viable option being sold besides that crap called LindowsOS. I hope Mandrake squashes LindowsOS like a bug -- for the sake of Linux and the consumer.

This will really matter when...

[FirstNoel]

Wal-mart carries "Big Game Hunter for Linux"..

Until then, Joe Sixpack won't give a crap.

Sean D.

Re:This will really matter when...

[garcia]

I am sick of these comments, please stop.

I don't shop at Walmart on a regular basis but I do shop there for items I cannot find elsewhere easily.

I am not what you would call the "upstanding white collar citizen" but I am not "Joe Sixpack".

They have excellent deals on DVDs (old school numbers than are less than $10) and have decent deals on a wide range of other items that Meijer and K-Mart just don't carry.

Cut out the "hick" shit about Walmart. They are an extremely sucessful company that is actually **TRYING** to do something positive for their customers (I don't agree w/their choice of distributions, but that is a previous post).

Re:This will really matter when...

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no Joe Sixpack except in the mind of the stereotype-holder, you.

Re:This will really matter when...

[lacrymology.com]

Yawn. Jeff Foxworthy can come up with 1000s of RedNeck jokes, but the Slashdot users seem to be stuck on the same tired retreads. Yawn.

Re:This will really matter when...

[j4ck50n]

Ditto, these types of comments are asinine and obviously originate from an ignorant idiot whose statements mirror those made by the types of people they are criticizing/ridiculing/stereotyping. Uhm, here's something...grow up.

Re:This will really matter when...

[ackthpt]

This will really matter when...

Wal-mart carries "Big Game Hunter for Linux"..

Hard to say who sounds more redneck, Joe Sixpack or the author. Back in the day, K-mart held the same esteem that Walmart does now, but everyone shopped there for something anyway. i.e. you live in Santa Cruz county, you make big money, you pay most of it rent/mortgage, you shop at Costco and Kmart, just like alleged rednecks.

I expect most Joe Sixpacks are just looking to get on the web, do some email/chat with Darleen DeCups, and some word/photo processing to their bargain inkjet printers (which won't be such a bargain once the ink runs out) As long as it does those things, I think they'll be happy as any J. P. Gotrockets.

Re:This will really matter when...

[aethera]

Umm, allow me to suggest:
a recent Alternet article or even better, everyone's favorite Walmart-watch.org Before we talk about walmart doing anything positive for anyone. Fiduciary resposibility is just another name for greed.

Re:This will really matter when...

[Master Bait]

Maybe you don't live in rural America, Bill, but I do and we all know we are rednecks and us insiders call it WallyWorld. I was there last night, in fact, trading in yet another failed EverStart Battery. The old one had a slip for August 2000, so I got my new one under pro-rated warranty for only $16.38. I was wearing a dirty t-shirt, shorts and hiking boots when I rolled into the automotive section with the old battery in a shopping cart.

Kate got a big bag of squirrel food on sale while I was there. Maybe there aren't a lot of spandex-wearing 250-lb. mother of five's running around anymore. Maybe those ladys don't have beehive hairdos, but styles change even out here.

WallyWorld sells cheap soda pop out of vending machines for only a quarter. Sometimes I drop by just to get a can or two on hot days.

Out here in the boonies, I figure a lot of computers will go to high-school age kids. WallyWorld needs to put them in their stores for the before school season or they'll lose out on a lot of sales. If they only offer them online, they'll lose out of first-time users, of which school kids of rednecks make a big segment. If people are shopping for computers online they already have one, right? And they'll likely go for the no-OS version before they'll get Linux.

Re:This will really matter when...

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is this funny? Probably Irrelevent. Maybe FirstNoel lives in deep south and all he sees is RedNecks? Geez. I don't find these retarded comments any more funny than the lamest trolling. At least there are some intelligent trolls on /. with a good hold of grammer, humour and intelligence. And then we have these rednecks like Noel, who just fucked his sister and calls his son, uncle too.

the way walmart is

[JeanBaptiste]

Im suprised they didn't call it wal-hat or wal-drake linux...

Re:the way walmart is

[Anonymous Coward]

I vote for walnux.

Re:the way walmart is

[Anonymous Coward]

The name would be "Sam's Choice Linux", in keeping with Wal-Mart's naming of generic stuff. That would actually have some entertainment value.

Re:the way walmart is

[Anonymous Coward]

My vote is for Man-Mart

LoL!

Re:the way walmart is

[thud2000]

Nah, it'd be "Sam's Choice Linux."

Re:the way walmart is

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, I think it's Sam's American Choice Linux. I personally would hold out for K-Mart's Great Value Linux, or Target's Mossimmo [knock-off] Linux.

Re:the way walmart is

[miracle69]

I've actually suggested this exact thing on the Mandrake Forum.

Mandrake could increase market share by offering other resellers a "branded" OS, while making money on the support of the machines and the O.S.

Take Mandrake 8.2 and brand it to say, WalMart.

During Boot-up, Walmart gets screen space. They get a link on the desktop to Walmart.com. And Mandrake gets 30 bucks or so to do tech support for the OS.

If the big retailers pick up on this, Linux will be poised for a several percentage point growth. Combine this with an AOL client for Linux, and this could easily propel Linux into the mainstream desktop.

Re:the way walmart is

[Anonymous Coward]

Wallows OS

Re:the way walmart is

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry meant Waldows

Re:the way walmart is

[Anonymous Coward]

Interesting. I see a few problems:

1) Mandrake is a fine name, and may be quite valuable in the future.

2) Tech Support is expensive.

3) How would they sell their subscritption service (without giving a cut to WalDrake)?

All in all I don't see the advantage of something like this for Mandrake. They need more than marketshare. They need mindshare. They need to grow their user base and get subscriptions, which really is a different kind of business than selling boxed software.

Lindows and Mandrake?

[uncoveror]

While giving customers a choice between Lindows and Mandrake is a nice idea, too many choices will just confuse people. A customer who can't make up his or her mind will delay his or her purchase, if not cancel it outright. Wal-Mart needs to avoid throwing the KISS principle out the window.

Re:Lindows and Mandrake?

[karmawarrior]

Exactly. What Wal*Mart needs to do is just sell one PC. It can be a Dell Laptop, with 256M of RAM and a 15G HD, and a Celeron.

That'll keep the punters coming in. One PC, nice and simple. No choices that might "confuse" someone, like differing amounts of memory or disk space or processors. Sure, there may be no configuration that's actually appropriate for >30% of users, but, in the cause of making things user friendly, should that matter?

Likewise, what's the deal with all the different model cars out there? Ford sells both SUVs AND Minivans AND boat-cars and normal cars. And, get this, some of them are available in diesel and gasoline versions, not to mention totally confusing potential consumers with "automatic" vs "manual" transmissions, and, unbelievably, different colors.

Ford would get more customers if it stuck with just the one model, say, a boat car with a 5L engine and an automatic transmission. Blue. Yep, blue would be good. That way, when a customer walks into a Ford dealer, they wouldn't be confused by a dazzling array of choices when all they want is a way to drive from A to B. They could just nip in, point at the Crown Vic they want, pay the money and leave.

And restaurants. Geez, is there anything worse than looking at some multipage menu with choices galore? What's wrong with a burger? A good, old fashioned, American burger. With cheese. Everyone likes cheese on their burgers. It's damned unamerican not to want cheese. I've been in restaurants and I've walked out, yes, walked out, because they expect me to spend hours and hours wading through some list of "choices" when all I want is something to eat. Burgers are userfriendly, efficient to make, and they feed just about anybody. Everyone knows what they are. The Outback Steakhouse needs to throw away their current huge three or four page "menus" and stick to burgers, a simple single design everyone can understand: A sesame seed bun, a 1/4lb beef burger, a sheet of American cheese, a simple lettuce leaf, a slice of tomato, a slice of pickle, and some ketchup and mayo. If anyone wants something other than that, surely they know enough about food to build their own damned burgers.

That's the problem with America today. Too many choices. When my grandmother can go into a fancy restaurant and understand the menu, that's when America will be ready for the desktop.

Re:Lindows and Mandrake?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Two" is "too many"? Hmmm.

Interesting issue, though - does walmart.com give any info on the differences between the two, or just a checkbox? If just a checkbox, then they're marketing them to those who already know Linux, not to the general (Linux unaware) public.

Re:Lindows and Mandrake?

[rseuhs]

Please somebody mod the parent up, it's probably the most insightful comment I've read on slashdot for quite some time.

But ...

[dzym]

But what about Lindows?

Re:But ...

[MrZeebo]

You should have read the article ;-)

It states that Wal-Mart is still going to be carrying PCs with Lindows on them. So that brings us to three OSes at Wal-Mart - Windows, Lindows, and Mandrake.

Quite a spectrum of choice... now we need one with *BSD, and one with Tru64 UNIX, and one with... :)

Re:But ...

[John_Booty]

According to the story (the VERY BEGINNING of the story), they're still selling the Lindows PC's. Please read the story before wasting time and bandwidth.

The Marginal Census

[Anonymous Coward]

Shit yeah, biatches! Linux in Kentucky!

Woo-Hoo!

We can now record the teen pregnancies with greater ease. . .

Re:The Marginal Census

[j4ck50n]

For you too!

Mandrake is the most palatable...

[Nijika]

If I were to wish for the american public to have the first taste of one version of Linux, it'd be Mandrake. Mandrake in my opinion has always been the friendliest. Others have tried but Mandrake always managed to keep the install reasonable.

Re:Mandrake is the most palatable...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, Mandrake has a great install, but that doesn't really matter since the pc's are pre-loaded.

And I would hope that Microtel would ship an install floppy to put everything back to the original install. That would be really nice. Ship the standard Mandrake cd's and a floppy. Tell the user that if they want to put the machine back in factory condition, with hard drives formatted, etc., boot from the floppy. Otherwise boot from the cd.

Re:Mandrake is the most palatable...

[GigsVT]

Install is irrelevant. Didn't you read the title of the story?

A braindead user can use Slackware (for example), if a competant admin has set up nice icons on a auto-loading desktop for them to click.

Re:Mandrake is the most palatable...

[Nijika]

RE-Install is always a factor. And the fact that the initial install is such a breeze says something about how usable Mandrake is.

And you're hoping for competant admins at WAL MART. I'll rely on the distribution developers to give Linux a good name to the masses, and not the Wal-Mart branch tech.

Re:Mandrake is the most palatable...

[GigsVT]

As far as I know, Microtel is the one preloading these things.

Mandrake Usability vs Lindows

[Vengie]

At least mandrake lacks the Lindows "M$-interoperability" clause.....but as of yet, they make no claims dealing with ease of use.

FSCK and scandisk don't exactly look the same....
Wait till a Wal-marter gets their first kernel panic -- at least they were USED to the BSODs.

Re:Mandrake Usability vs Lindows

[pstreck]

bah, they'll never see a kernel panic unless they ru n bleeding edge kernels anyways. You expect these guys to downloading the latest kernel source and install a spiffy 2.5 kernel.. yeah right!

Re:Mandrake Usability vs Lindows

[Anonymous Coward]

> bah, they'll never see a kernel panic unless they run bleeding edge kernels anyways. You expect these guys to downloading the latest kernel source and install a spiffy 2.5 kernel.. yeah right!

They'll get a kernel panic when their RAM or other hardware fails. Even Linux boxes have hardware failures.

Not that I think it'll matter - bluescreen or panic screen, same difference: "Geez! It stopped working! Now, where was that technical support number again?..."

Re:Mandrake Usability vs Lindows

[FooBarWidget]

Linux doesn't immedietely panic when there's a hardware failure. My IDE controller has failed once, but the kernel didn't panic, it just prints lots of error messages at the console. The GUI is still responsive, but I can't use anything that isn't 100% in RAM (like apps that have been swapped out).
And the RAM in this computer isn't very either. I believe it's a little broken. But Linux doesn't panic, apps just crash randomly (especially when compiling). But strangely, ever since I upgraded to kernel 2.4.12+ I haven't experienced any random app crashes anymore.

Re:Mandrake Usability vs Lindows

[hazyshadeofwinter]

Yeah, maybe they can send me a spare kernel panic too, I've been waiting years to see what one looks like.

wal-mart pc's

[1lus10n]

you know i have two problems with wal-mart putting linux on anything. 1. the people who buy Pc's at wal-mart are the type of people that will never get_it 2. the people selling the pc's will probally mis-inform the customers and make linux in general look bad

Re:wal-mart pc's

[Anonymous Coward]

*nods*

"where dem tings go on de penguin tingy?"
-Billy Bob Customer Jr.

-Jokster

Re:wal-mart pc's

[j4ck50n]

And you too!

Re:wal-mart pc's

[Anonymous Coward]

What an ignorant elitist statement.

Get a fucking clue.

Re:wal-mart pc's

[mprinkey]

I was thinking the same thing, in the opposite direction, I guess. The "gimmick" here is a lower price due and the different OS. But, there is no "Sims" or "Deer Hunter" for Linux, so who is going knowingly buy this. Linux-types have a high likelihood of rolling their own. Business-types (the real potential market for Linux, IMO) will not be buying from a retailer like Walmart.

The *best* this could do for the average joe is provide capabilities similar to the iOpener or other web appliances. Email, web access, write a book report. But, when it doesn't work with the new digital camera or $40 ink-jet-of-the-month printer, there will be big problems. There is a significant chance that these "penguin" systems will turn into albatrosses.

I would personally prefer to see Linux inflitrate the home-user market last after a significant portion of the non-geek population is exposed to it at work. Honestly, the home market is the area where Linux has the least to offer.

Re:wal-mart pc's

[Anonymous Coward]

No, you get a fucking clue. I think a Linux pc from Wally World will be their most returned product. Linux is a step backwards. Why should I have to open a command prompt to configure an installer THEN install something? When was the last time you had to compile your kernel on a Windows install? Grandma, a_hick_01, or any other regular Wal-Mart consumer just wants to surf the web or e-mail more than likely. They don't want to & won't take the time to figure out the un-usability of Linux.

Re:wal-mart pc's

[1lus10n]

you know if its so ignorant of me to state the obvious why dont you point out exactly WHY i am ignorant (or at least how that comment is ignorant)
as far as anything else i will simply say that most windows (l)users (such as you) seem to think windows is great (mostly because of ease of use/compatibility) and get mad when people like me say that the "average" windows user doesnt want to or cant take the time to pick up linux.

the ultimate Q here shouldnt be weather wal mart is ready for linux but is linux ready for wal-mart. the answer to that is a resounding NO.
say johnQ buys walmart linux box gets home and decides he needs a better vid card runs out and plops it in and ..... NO X. now what ? you expect him to know how to re-config/compile the kernel with the driver for said video card included ? or even to know what kernel he is running ?
yeah right, most of the average users have trouble using outlook correctly. and thats not a nock on them , most people just dont need to or want to become good with computers. they just want to turn them on and go. with the "features" windows offers them.
oh and how about the first time they wanna burn a CD or watch a DVD. not exactly the most uncommon use but with linux you have to LEARN the program's.

not just point-n-click drag-n-drop happy go lucky crap on windows

Re:wal-mart pc's

[1lus10n]

right , see my response to the other short sighted dim-wit

Re:wal-mart pc's

[Anonymous Coward]

I bet he plays golf.

I can't understand their reasoning

[scott1853]

Why carry Windows, Lindows & Mandrake? Isn't this just overkill?

Worst yet, it's going to really confuse the people that can't afford to get confused when buying a computer because all they can afford is the cheap models. This is a disservice to their loyal customers because they'll have just bought a computer from WalMart but won't understand why they can't walk down the software isle and pick up a game for the kids. So is Wal-mart going to carry shrink wrapped Linux apps too, or are they going to blindly claim that every Windows application can run on it like they did last week?

Re:I can't understand their reasoning

[PunchMonkey]

Good point. Let's drop that Windows thing.

Re:I can't understand their reasoning

[GrenDel Fuego]

My guess would be something along the lines of them supporting lindows to make linux users happy, and provide an alternative for people who don't want to pay for windows.

Then the linux users bitched because they didn't like lindows and it's "run as root" OS, so they added mandrake.

Of course, this is just speculation on my part.

Re:I can't understand their reasoning

[thelexx]

"Why carry Windows, Lindows & Mandrake? Isn't this just overkill?"

As sold at least, this seems very logical to me:

Machine A - 100% Windows
Machine B - Linux w/option to run some Win stuff (they've lost points on marketing this though I know)
Machine C - 100% Linux

"Worst yet, it's going to really confuse the people that can't afford to get confused when buying a computer because all they can afford is the cheap models."

Well yes, options brings complexity. I've long felt that the entire consumer-level computer industry has played it very close to false advertising at a root level though. It's a rant for another time, but cripes, you can control a robot, your stereo, enjoy the internet, play chess, etc a computer. It's a COMPLEX device because it gives you so freaking many fundamental options. Yes, cute and limited software can be used quite easily by the unlearned, but that's not what started the revolution or the interesting part of its unfolding. Anyway...

"This is a disservice to their loyal customers because they'll have just bought a computer from WalMart but won't understand why they can't walk down the software isle and pick up a game for the kids. So is Wal-mart going to carry shrink wrapped Linux apps too, or are they going to blindly claim that every Windows application can run on it like they did last week?"

Indeed, but how many more companies will, between things like the IBM commercials and Linux being sold pre-installed on a highly visible chains shelves, see Linux as a viable market and target it? Maybe our time has finally come.

LEXX

Re:I can't understand their reasoning

[shadow303]

So let me get this straight, giving choice is a disservice to the customers? Anybody who tosses down several hundred dollars on a device which they don't understand, and doesn't bother to ask anybody or do some research is a fool. Stop assuming that everybody is an idiot. These things are clearly marked as different. If they see that these things are different, and don't want to find out about them, they will simply choose the windows machine instead.

Re:I can't understand their reasoning

[Anonymous Coward]

Why sell Ford, Honda and BMW?

To give consumers a choice. How is it a bad thing to be given a choice about what you'd like to buy? Persons not wanting to buy a Linux PC can still happily bring their Windows box to the checkout.

That's like showing up at a car dealership and they only sell one type of car.

Re:I can't understand their reasoning

[ScoLgo]

I think you're missing the point. I'll repeat what's already been mentioned -- "They are not selling these at Wal-Mart stores - only on their web-site." This means that people won't buy a computer, put it in their real-life shopping cart and then go browse the software aisle for stuff to run on it.

People who buy these systems will already be familiar enough with computers and software that, (hopefully), they'll have some inkling of what it is that they are getting themselves into. I, for one, am planning on looking into this for my kid's next computer.

btw - choice is ultimately a good thing.

Re:I can't understand their reasoning

[dmarx]

The Mandrake machines are being sold on walmart.com, not in Walmart stores, so the REALLY clueless people are less likely to pick the "wrong" machine.

Re:I can't understand their reasoning

[Odinson]

This was all part of Linuses nepherious plot when he said(roughly), "All I want is for people shopping for a computer to have to make a choice. To actually think about what operating system they want."

Re:I can't understand their reasoning

[Anonymous Coward]

As sold at least, this seems very logical to me:

Machine A - 100% Windows
Machine B - Linux w/option to run some Win stuff (they've lost points on marketing this though I know)
Machine C - 100% Linux

And you are... posting to Slashdot.

Of course it is logical to you. How about to someone that doesn't even understand what the difference between Windows and Linux are, or even that they are two totally separate things?

Re:I can't understand their reasoning

[Hard_Code]

"Why carry Windows, Lindows & Mandrake? Isn't this just overkill?"

Three whole choices? Well OF COURSE that's overkill! Americans can't even handle a choice of more than two political parties. Muahaha.</sardonicism>

Re:I can't understand their reasoning

[mblase]

Worst yet, it's going to really confuse the people that can't afford to get confused when buying a computer because all they can afford is the cheap models.

Yes, I agree. Far far better to offer customers no choice in the OS whatsoever, perpetuating the illusion that Windows is and always will be the only real choice for running PC software.

C'mon, is it that hard to understand? You buy a PC that tells you up-front it DOES NOT HAVE WINDOWS INSTALLED. Instead, you're getting Linux and all the free software you need to surf the net, read your email, and write your Christmas newsletters. If the customer complains that their WINDOWS software doesn't run on a NON-WINDOWS computer, then their "loyal customers" can just plunk down an extra $200 for WinXP and remember to read the package next time.

I mean, come on... when was the last time someone just walked into Wal-Mart(.com) and plunked down several hundred dollars on a computer without doing a little comparison shopping?

Re:I can't understand their reasoning

[scott1853]

Everybody is an idiot... idiot! They won't research it because they won't know where to go because they are in the market for their first computer that will allow them to get on the internet in the first place and allow them to look stuff up. And you know the WalMart sales people aren't going to be able to accurately describe it.

Re:I can't understand their reasoning

[scott1853]

There is no doubt choice is a good thing as long as the options are explained well. I understand (now) that these are going to be sold through the website.

But remember, there are a lot of people that have money to buy family members computers during the holidays. These people are ordering things online but don't always know enough to make an informed decision. So if it comes down to choosing between 2 1GHz machines with identical specs but different OSs then the cheaper one will probably be chosen. This can be especially bad when the recipient of the new machine will be an 80 year old grandmother.

My fear is that of a tech support nightmare when somebodies grandmother calls up and can't get things working on her new Wal-Mart computer. But generally speaking I could see it becoming as confusing as the different long distance options available.

Re:I can't understand their reasoning

[Anonymous Coward]

Walmart does sell shrink wrapped Linux apps. At the walmart where I live they have several distros of linux for sale!

Re:I can't understand their reasoning

[scott1853]

You're right. I'll openly admit I didn't read the article completely. Of course how many people that are online in the USA read slashdot?

Re:I can't understand their reasoning

[scott1853]

I'm not an MS advocate spewing Windows should run on every machine. Wal-Mart will not accurately descibe the differences between the computers aside from a stickers that either says "Windows" or "Linux". That's a disservice.

People can barely handle learning the basics of computer use. I have at least one person sign up at our ISP every week that has literally just unpacked their first computer and they want me to walk them through getting setup on the internet. These people have NO computer experience and don't understand what the escape key is or that the mouse has 2 buttons.

Computers are still relatively new. It's not like cars where they've been around since your grandfather was a child.

Now if Gateway was going to start selling consumer machines with Linux on them, then I would expect them to use those Gateway stores as a training ground for the new users and actually show the differences. I can't see Wal-Mart being able to do that.

Re:I can't understand their reasoning

[scott1853]

Gee mine too! And what does the box say, "thousands of applications". Gee, that's helpful.

Re:I can't understand their reasoning

[scott1853]

All cars have a gas pedal, brake pedal and steering wheel. And they're all in the same place no matter what brand car you buy.

Besides, cars are a bad example because they've been around for a hundred years and they only perform a few basic functions (forward, reverse, stop, left, right).

Re:I can't understand their reasoning

[Mr. McGibby]

You know, it's not really a difficult thing to understand. Most people who have ever used a computer will be able to tell you the difference between a Mac and PC. The Mac can't run regular software. You have to get *special* Mac software. It's the same deal with Linux, except a lot of the stuff is free.

See? Now how hard was that to explain? The problem with the slashdot community is that they think that their knowledge is so above and beyond the rest of the world that there is no way that they will ever understand it. Oh please, we're not that smart.

Re:I can't understand their reasoning

[MAXOMENOS]

It's not like cars where they've been around since your grandfather was a child.

You don't actually know that. A fifteen or twenty year old Slashdotter could have a fourty year old mom or dad and a sixty year old granddad .. putting ol' granddad's childhood right about the dawn of the computer age.

But that's me being anal about terms; it's obvioiusly true that personal computers were not around, or in widespread use, during the childhood of anyone old enough to be the grandfather of a slashdotter. And even if they were, the user interfaces have changed a lot in the last twenty years.

Re:I can't understand their reasoning

[Fig, formerly A.C.]

This can be especially bad when the recipient of the new machine will be an 80 year old grandmother.

I doubt an 80 year old grandmother will be going for email and web surfing if anything (not playing games), so a friendly Linux distro would be just fine here.

Re:I can't understand their reasoning

[Theom]

Left mouse button, right mouse button and scroll weel (^&

Re:I can't understand their reasoning

[Theom]

Mandrake has enough games to statisfy the needs of the Minesweeper and Solitaire fan comunity.

Re:I can't understand their reasoning

[Fig, formerly A.C.]

I was referring to the Unreal Medal of Duke Quakenstein games, but as far as the OS games go, Mandrake does have some good ones.

Re:I can't understand their reasoning

[Theom]

I know, but I really don't believe that the average computer user is playing FPS.

Re:I can't understand their reasoning

[Fig, formerly A.C.]

Ermmm. That was my point in the original post. 80 year old granny won't be playing games...

Re:I can't understand their reasoning

[DoctorFrog]

This is a disservice to their loyal customers because they'll have just bought a computer from WalMart but won't understand why they can't walk down the software isle and pick up a game for the kids.

They'll just have bought a computer from WalMart.com, not from Wal-Mart. It's a different demographic; if they go to the web store then they already have at least minimal exposure to computers, and probably are aware that there are two different OSs, and thus that Linux won't run Windows games (usually).

Re:I can't understand their reasoning

[DunbarTheInept]

[...] in the market for their first computer that will allow them to get on the internet in the first place [...]

"Honey, let's order a computer on-line at wallmart.com so we can get on the internet in the first place."

Uh, can you spot the flaw?

(Hint: These aren't being sold in the physical Wallmart stores.)

Re:I can't understand their reasoning

[ScoLgo]

My fear is that of a tech support nightmare when somebodies grandmother calls up and can't get things working on her new Wal-Mart computer.

You make a decent point but I wouldn't worry too much. In my experience, most beginners are actually pretty easy to train. Your 80-year old granny is unlikely to do much more than learn how to surf the web, send/receive e-mails and maybe play solitaire. I propose that Mandrake is just as intuitive as Windows in this regard.

Also, I would hope that as part of their game-plan, MandrakeSoft and MicroTel will be ramping up their tech support to handle what you describe. They will need to be the answer people in case the person who received the computer doesn't have a friend or family member capable of helping them.

It's the users that have just enough knowledge to be dangerous that I would worry about. You know the ones; they have some limited experience with computers running MSWorks and maybe installed a printer driver once. (They are the source of at least 90% of my stress quotient ;). But those are also the people that will most likely stick with the devil they know - Windows, (or so we can hope! ;-)

Another point; Even if a certain,(I believe small), percentage of computer users become discouraged by their inability to learn Linux, think of all the new users that will have their eyes opened to a new way of doing things. One of them may very well be the next Linus or Alan Cox.

Ok, strike that. Linus probably doesn't shop at Wal-Mart...

;-]

Re:I can't understand their reasoning

[Anonymous Coward]

Alrighty. If you can't see the analogy in cars, how about sandwiches?

A deli has always sold turkey sandwiches. Everyone has bought their turkey sandwiches because they don't know other types of meat exist. One day, the deli offers three different kinds of sandwiches - ham, roast beef and turkey. Each of them has bread, cheese, mustard and mayo, lettuce and pickles. But the meat is different. And, the ham and roast beef sandwiches cost less.

How is this overkill? Customers who want to stick with turkey can do so, but those who want ham or roast beef can now buy them (where before, they couldn't).

Is this a "better" analogy for you? :( Cripes.

GREAT news for Linux!

[Anonymous Coward]

I think this is GREAT news. I personally would have liked to see Lycoris or ELX be the alternative to Lindows. But, in the end, Mandrake is pretty easy to use and their configuration utilities (diskdrake, etc) should be very easy for newbies to use.

You guys forgot...

[Sanity]

..the condescending remark about Walmart customers this time! How are we geeks supposed to maintain any self-esteem unless we can pick on someone else the way that we were picked on at high-school?

Re:You guys forgot...

[toupsie]

How are we geeks supposed to maintain any self-esteem unless we can pick on someone else the way that we were picked on at high-school?

Gee, I didn't know that still bothered you as an adult. I am really sorry I scarred you life. But I figured you were able to get that toilet bowl cleaner off your face easy when we gave you that "Whirlie" so you really didn't mind. I didn't know it would lead to you picking on Walmart shoppers.

Re:You guys forgot...

[G00F]

oh don't worrie, you still can, its only mandrake and lindows here.

Wait

[KingKire64]

Is Walmart Still Evil?

Disney = Evil (Not on Tuesdays)
Walmart = Evil (Not on Wendesdays)

God im confused whens Microsofts day off?

Re:Wait

[eaddict]

And PriceWaterhouseCoopers isn't evil on Mondays!

Re:Wait

[ackthpt]

Well, if you're confused, you probably ought to take in instance on it's own merits. I.e. Walmarts evil, when they displace mom&pop stores, but not so evil when they displace WinTel boxen with Lindows and Mandrake boxen.

It's called, taking your victories where you can.

Re:Wait

[laserjet]

On slasdot, Microsoft is not evil on the second tuesday after hell freezes over. Didn't you get the memo?

Re:Wait

[Profe55or Booty]

in my mind walmart will always be evil, what with their >2000 sweatshops in China alone, where they pay 13-22 cents an hour.

but of course i'm one of the few with a concience.

Re:Wait

[colmore]

sweatshops are a tricky issue.

it's not like when say, a company is dumping toxic waste so you stop buying their products in hopes that they'll maybe go out of business or have to shut down polluting factories.

the problem with sweatshops is that, the locals in those countries are so poor they *choose* to work in sweatshops (or send their kids) and if walmart shut down the shops then they would just be poorer. now walmart could voluntarily elect to pay their workers more, but in a free market, that's not likely to happen. what really needs to occur is for the economy of china to improve. if the workers there had more and better options, walmart et. al. would HAVE to pay more. boycotting a store because of sweatshops doesn't really work.

now how joe consumer goes about improving china's economy, i'm not sure, but boycotting walmart isn't going to help the people it employs, no matter how mistreated they are.

Re:Wait

[Anonymous Coward]

God im confused whens Microsofts day off? April 1st

Re:Wait

[mikeee]

now how joe consumer goes about improving china's economy

I'm thinking 'Buy Chinese Stuff'. Eventually, they'll get less poor, and even the sweatshop owners'll have to pay a half-decent wage.

In the long run. But then, as one famous economist said, "Sure, it all works out in the long run... but in the long run we'll all be dead!"

Re:Wait

[colmore]

yeah but buying things that only pay the workers (less than) subsistance wages won't really improve much. the trick is to locate big-ticket items that actually get money in the hands of working chinese and buy those over american things. of course, i'm a big fan of american manufacturing too, so as always, knowing all sides of an issue leaves me paralyzed with responsibility.

Re:Wait

[Anonymous Coward]

It's called, taking your victories where you can.

No. It's called selective memory, and it is the surest sign of self delusion.

Re:Wait

[Mr_Silver]

And PriceWaterhouseCoopers isn't evil on Mondays!

Pity they forgot to register the co.uk domain :o)

Who would've thought?

[URoRRuRRR]

Who would've thought that Wal-Mart of all places, a place that usually deals in cheap plastic crap would turn around and start selling No OS PCs, Lindows and Mandrake?

Hopefully Middle America won't see them as non-viable systems, the Wang Computers and Amigas of our day.

Passing the Savings

[Dark Paladin]

Before people think Wal-Mart is being all altruistic, think of it this way.

Wal-Mart wants to advertise they're underselling the compitition. Easiest way to do this? Sell computers without an operating system. Of course, if you do this, you sell a computer that is a) useless to Joe User (who probably doesn't know how to install an OS without help), and b) Microsoft cries piracy (I don't have the link, but one of their white papers basically says that only software pirates buy computers without operating systems.)

Now, go to Dell. Computer comes with Windows, and Microsoft Works (or Office, or whatever). You can't tell them *not* to put it on, and odds are, they have some legal ass bullshit agreement with MS that all computers must have the OS and some office suite on them (aka, the "Windows Tax").

So Wal-Mart figures they can save $100-$200 on each computer sale by putting on Mandrake and probably Open Office. Joe User gets a computer he can do email/web browsing/document editing on. Yes, it might not run all the same software as Windows - but if he wants that, he goes back to Wal-Mart and shells out another $100 (or he learns to live with it and gets a Playstation 2 instead).

Guys like me who just want cheap ass hardware without the Windows Tax get hardware. Everybody wins. Well, except for MS, but the way they've been acting with their draconian "Use software subscription or no patches for you!" additude they've been shelling at the Corporate Level, I don't feel too sorry for them.

Re:Passing the Savings

[HiThere]

Unless you assume that the machines come with manuals, I think that you can definitely assume that Mandrake is giving them the software for free. Or at least for no more than the cost of one boxed set.

That's what the GPL is about. That's how Mandrake got started. etc.

Re:Passing the Savings

[Anonymous Coward]

Why this whole crap about the "Windows Tax". Its a lie, a myth!

Walk into a CompUSA or Micro Center and try to buy a machine without paying for Windows. The whole OS bundling flap is being fought over pre-packaged consumer-level hardware, not the parts you order off of a random website.

Do you have any concrete examples of how the "Windows Tax" is a myth? Any actual data on which manufacturers are prohibited from selling machines bundled with non-Windows operating systems? Any significant retail (read: brick-and-mortar store) methods of buying non-windows machines?

Why don't you just share some of that 'research' that seems to be making you so angry?

Re:Passing the Savings

[Ami Ganguli]

Hey, that's a really cool idea! Bundle a PC with Linux/OpenOffice/Mozilla with a PlayStation2. You can sell it for less than a Windows/MSOffice PC, and I think most consumers would be thrilled with the package.

I figure once you've got the basic productivity apps., the main software you purchase for your system is games. With a separate PS2 you can even surf while your kids play!

So how do we convince some major retailer to do this?

Re:Passing the Savings

[LtScheisskopf]

Yes, it might not run all the same software as Windows - but if he wants that, he goes back to Wal-Mart and shells out another $100

Actually, he's going to have to shell out nearly $200, because he won't be able to get an upgrade version. He ends up spending more than if he'd bought a machine with Windows pre-installed.

Re:Passing the Savings

[lazarius]

That's what I don't get. YOU'VE ALWAYS BEEN ABLE TO GET CHEAP HARDWARE. Why this whole crap about the "Windows Tax". Its a lie, a myth!
What if I just want to buy a complete (near)top machine? I *must* buy a copy of Windows (& usually other stuff too) just so I can get my hardware. Some of these machines double in price when you introduce Win into the equation... but I run Linux! I don't need Win, but most often if I buy a complete machine I buy win too.

that was a bit rambling, but I hope my point came accross.

MIKE

Re:Passing the Savings

[DunbarTheInept]

This is untrue. Microsoft has complained about certain manufactuers, and in many cases BIG manufactuerers, who knowingly sell "naked" (non-OS'd) machines to people for the express purpose of them pirating Windows.

Speaking of "untrue", selling a naked PC to someone so they can install the OS software they *already have* on it is not piracy, no matter what FUD from the industry you are swallow. If I want to upgrade to a newer, better machine and ditch the old old, but I'm not changing OSes, it is not piracy to re-use my existing copy of the OS. It only becomes piracy if the new and the old computer are in use at the same time, and both have the OS installed from one common copy.

I have way more copies of Windows (legally) than I do machines to put them on.

If ordering from an OEM and putting Windows on, I would prefer to put on my own store-bought copy of windows than use a broken "for OEM only" version that doesn't even come with the re-install disks and instead has some useless "system restore" disk that fails if I've upgraded any software or hardware. However, I don't want to have to pay MS for the OS twice to do this, which is what happens when I had no choice but to get the pre-installed OS with the computer.

Re:Passing the Savings

[jhchrist]

Thats a complete and utter load of bull crap. $200? Hardly. Hardly. Hardly. Assuming that Mandrake is giving them the OS for free (and I dont know that we can do that, but lets go with it anyways), they'd probably be saving between $40 and $80 a unit, depending on the configuration. Contrary to popular belief Windows XP is not very expensive for OEMs. The higher the volume, the cheaper the deal for that OEM

It may be true that the savings isn't that great. And as someone else said, $40-$80 a unit is still money (and quite a bit in volume). So, yes it still counts. Another thing to note here is that it is $100-$200 price difference to the buyer. Putting WinXP on the machine raises the price for the buyer, and that does matter (see below).

That's what I don't get. YOU'VE ALWAYS BEEN ABLE TO GET CHEAP HARDWARE. Why this whole crap about the "Windows Tax". Its a lie, a myth!

It may be easy for you and me to get cheap hardware, but what about Joe Average? Why do people buy computers from Dell, Gateway, Walmart, etc? Because they get a package deal that they can rely on. If Walmart can sell you a complete system for $200 (or $40) cheaper because of software differences (or for other differences), that's awesome. There's two twinkies that taste about the same, one costs $4 the other costs $2.. which to you buy?

Re:Passing the Savings

[Anonymous Coward]

he? your grandma have a gender change?

mod me down, please!) =)

Re:Passing the Savings

[Anonymous Coward]

that was a bit rambling, but I hope my point came accross.

It didn't.

Re:Passing the Savings

[Anonymous Coward]

Show me a Joe Average that wants to run Linux.

Re:Passing the Savings

[Xtifr]

Show me a Joe Average that wants to run Linux.

I have Linux bumper-stickers and t-shirts, and I frequently have people walk up to me who want to know more about Linux. Usually they're frustrated with the instability and constant crashing of their Windows machines, and have heard (somewhere) that Linux is more stable and reliable. Generally, these tend to be small-businessmen or independent contractors (plumbers, carpenters, etc.), but I think it shows that Joe Average is at least interested in and curious about Linux, even if he's still also a little scared and cautious (probably for good reason, and I try to encourage the caution).

Re:Passing the Savings

[Anonymous Coward]

Guys like me who just want cheap ass hardware without the Windows Tax get hardware.That's what I don't get. YOU'VE ALWAYS BEEN ABLE TO GET CHEAP HARDWARE. Why this whole crap about the "Windows Tax". Its a lie, a myth!

I just spent a while looking for a laptop without the windows (or apple) tax. Since the tax is a "lie", where do you buy one?

Re:Passing the Savings

[sheldon]

That's so weird...

I've never paid a Windows tax. Every computer I have purchased new at home has been built up from parts. Not once did they ever come with any OS.

Well ok, there was that Linksys card with the Linux CD, but I don't think that counts.

Now I have purchased Windows. I started with a copy of Windows 3.1 I got at a swap meet back in '92 for $25 and have been doing upgrades ever since. But I've always purchased the OS seperate from my hardware because i upgrade the OS once every 2-3 years, but the hardware about once every 6-9 months.

I also wouldn't buy one of these Microtel computers because I prefer quality components and what I see doesn't strike me that way.

Re:Passing the Savings

[sheldon]

http://www.qlilinux.com/

try google, it works.

Of course the problem is that you will likely pay more for the laptop without windows. But if you are fighting a moral battle, some cash has to be sacrificed!

Re:Passing the Savings

[Paradise Pete]

we all have seen the very unscrupulous OEMs at "computer shows" etc who do sell you computers for the express purpose

I haven't. Not at "computer shows," nor at actual computer shows.

I want my PC

[rohdem]

preloaded with DOS.
Thank you!

Re:I want my PC

[Anonymous Coward]

then, you can surf the web with arachne 1.70.

Re:I want my PC

[CptNoSkill]

What about OS/2 or maybe Geoworks?
If Walmart is going to offer choice, they need to get serious about it..

but...

[Anonymous Coward]

How does having two flavours of Linux available at Wal-Mart going to help John Q Public make an informed buying decision over Billy's Discount PC's $300 Celeron with XP installed?

and do we think licensing costs on either OS will be different enough that customers would be swayed toward one or the other?

furthermore, the story refers to Walmart.com a lot, and doesn't once mention brick 'n' mortar stores selling these Linux-loaded PCs.

Also, dental.

Finally a good distro...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm glad to see Mandrake will be preinstalled on the Microtel systems -- it's a good desktop distro, and is easy to use.

I think the backlash from their Lindows announcement is causing Wal-Mart to consider other linux distributions that may be more stable and, at the very least, are getting less negative press.

Re:this frightens me.(But don't let that stop you)

[Marx_Mrvelous]

Have you ever used Mandrake? The default install is very secure, if I rmember right FTP, telnet, etc are all disabled by default. Anyways, is it any worse than yet another MS computer out there to be infected by nasty e-mail viruses?

I guess beign scared by change is one thing, but I'm glad Walmart and Mandrake are attempting to bring some choice.

Wal-Mart selling IN STORES!

[|<amikaze]

Just a slight correction to the previous stories about Lindows being pre-installed on Wal-Mart PCs, people on HardForums claim to have seen the Lindows machines IN STORES>

Is it really support for linux?

[Twid]

The pessimist position here is that Wal-Mart knows full well that 99% of consumers will immediately get their smart uncle Bob to come over, reformat the hard drive, and install a version of Windows. So, the installation of Mandrake is just a ploy to make their PC's cheaper than their competition and get sales.

I'm not saying that Mandrake isn't good, or that Linux isn't fun to run. I'm just saying that the average consumer is going to be upset when they find that they can't run Microsoft Word or Quicken.

- Twid

Re:Is it really support for linux?

[laserjet]

You have a point, but won't it be funny when microsoft-centric Uncle Bob comes over to install Windows WhateverVersion.3, and doesn't get his familiar windows or DOS prompt?

after all, uncle bob may not be smart enough to bring his own boot floppy with CD driver, etc. to install (or infect, as I see it) with windows...

Re:Is it really support for linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

but OpenOffice and GnuCash will be preinstalled. I think most people would be prefectly happy with them.

Re:Is it really support for linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, so you support Microsoft's position that selling a PC without Windows equates to promoting piracy?

Re:Is it really support for linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

> You have a point, but won't it be funny when microsoft-centric Uncle Bob comes over to install Windows WhateverVersion.3, and doesn't get his familiar windows or DOS prompt?

It'll be funnier when he pops in his recovery CD, not having a retail version installer CD, and finds out that Gee, it doesn't work on this machine!

Re:Is it really support for linux?

[SN74S181]

Yes.

And then an entire family gets to hear "what's this junk?" from the guy whose opinion about computers they respect the most. Quite possibly they'll all come to equate 'linux' as being the same as the crud demo DVD that came for free with their DVD player.

I am not saying it's a good thing, but it's how the scenario will play out.

I wonder...

[Anonymous Coward]

how many rednecks will line up for this offer....

Dude!

[Hard_Code]

You're getting a Microtel!

Re:Dude!

[doubtless]

it's more like

Nerd!
You're getting a Microtel!

Re:THE FRENCHIES WILL WIN !

[Anonymous Coward]

Bah, the French owe the rest of the world their existence. Each time you go your asses kicked, someone else had to come in and bail you out. Has France ever won a single war on their own?

Re:this frightens me.(But don't let that stop you)

[garcia]

that's not exactly what I mean. I mean programs that are exploitable that will NEVER get updated b/c the users will not know any better.

Re:THE FRENCHIES WILL WIN !

[getter_85]

I think that post right there will stop the wide use o mandrake in its tracks.

"Sam's Choice Linux!"

[Marx_Mrvelous]

Hmm, does this make Madrake Sam's Choice Linux... is is the Dr. Thunder to Red Hat?

Re:"Sam's Choice Linux!"

[getter_85]

a generic knock-off linux distro... very interesting...

Consumer Confusion?

[Capt_Troy]

I'm a little worried to where this is heading. If these PCs are intended for low budget novice consumers...

A> They might be confused about Lindows (while not infringing on MSs Trademark, it is definitely misleading). How many novice users are going to buy a PC that they think will run all the screensavers and games that a Windows PC will?

B> Giving novice users a choice between Mandrake and Lindows seems strange to me. How will most novice users be able to choose the most appropriate? I think we might just confuse them out of buying a computer, or they will probably choose the Lindows box just because the name sounds familiar.

C> As far as I know Walmart sells Windows PC software (maybe Mac??). Won't user's assume that since they buy their computer from Walmart, that the software they buy from Walmart will work on their computer? Is Walmart planning on selling Linux software somehow as well?

I like the Mandrake thing, but I am a little worried that the inclusion of Lindows will be confusing to the non-technical user who is most likely to buy these boxen. The name of the distro implies that it is analogous to Windows. As far as I have read, it is not. This will only serve to make the general public hate linux because they can't run "regular" software on it.

Troy

Re:Consumer Confusion?

[GigsVT]

I'm a little worried to where this is heading. If these MS-DOS computers are intended for low budget novice consumers...

How many novice users are going to buy a PC that they think will run all the programs that a CP/M system will?

Giving novice users a choice between MS-DOS and PC-DOS seems strange to me. How will most novice users be able to choose the most appropriate? I think we might just confuse them out of buying a computer, or they will probably choose the MS-DOS box just because the name sounds familiar.

Re:Consumer Confusion?

[surfimp]

Could it be that consumers shopping Walmart.com, where these machines are being offered, are not as dumb as most /. respondents seem intent on making them out to be?

Remember, the systems are being offered as "fantastic low-cost alternatives to models that are preloaded with Windows". There's nothing ambiguous about that statement; these machines DO NOT COME with Windows, and thus WILL NOT RUN Windows applications.

In fact, what I think Walmart is really trying to do here is not necessarily directed at the home user market. I suspect that many of these systems are being sold to technologically-savvy small businesses, the same sorts of people who might go to Fry's to purchase some low-cost computer equipment to help meet a need in their office. At $300, these things are a steal. Whether or not they end up with pirated versions of XP on them is not something that I think Walmart is concerned about, but by selling them with Linux preloaded they can escape from the "aiding and abetting piracy" whines that Microsoft was laying on them when they were selling these machines with no preloaded OS.

However, the fact that Walmart is selling PCs with Linux preloaded is a huge opportunity for Linux to make inroads with all sectors of consumers, and I'm glad to see that Mandrake is proactively pursuing this by agreeing to provide their distro for these machines.

If you consider that these systems are going to be offered with Mandrake preloaded, and then take note that you can download Evolution and OpenOffice (assuming they aren't preloaded), then you're talking about a system that is pretty much there as far as Windows-land compatibility goes, from a home-user and small business perspective.

It's up to Mandrake, Lindows, and Walmart to see to it that their users' experience with this software is all that it can be. And I'd also like to forward the notion that anyone who's genuinely interested in seeing Linux gain desktop marketshare consider helping out some of these Walmartian newbies when they invariably start showing up to the message boards and newsgroups. After all, that's what the spirit of the OSS movement is all about, right?

Re:Consumer Confusion?

[Capt_Troy]

So you think that Mandrake will be forced out of existance by Lindows!!! This IS worse than I initially thought!!!

:)

Re:Consumer Confusion?

[Capt_Troy]

Thats a good point, this should be modded up.

Re:Consumer Confusion?

[FooBarWidget]

That was back in the late 80s or the early 90s. Back then, newbies weren't as stupid as newbies are today. Times have changed, people have become lazy and expect that a computer is "easy to use" (even though Windows is still confusing to real newbies...)

Re:this frightens me.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, what was Mandrake thinking? Making Linux easy to use? How can we be 3133t if just about anyone can use the OS?

Re:THE FRENCHIES WILL WIN !

[Anonymous Coward]

*nods*

"VIVE LA FRANCE!" as long as the good ol' U.S. of A. will cover our asses!.

Great!

[rob-fu]

Mandrake has got to be the easiest distro to install and manage. Everything is autodetected, and setup flies by painlessly (that is, if you are semi-literate). Linux is getting its foot in the door, but the question is whether people will catch on. Using Mandrake to do this will help a lot, IMHO.

Re:Great!

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately the install process makes no difference. Redhat and Mandrake are no more difficult to install than Windows, but only the tech saavy will be installing any OS so it doesn't make much difference in the long run. The enduser should only be concerned with operating the computer. Whether or not it will catch on depends on usability and application support and hardware support.

Application support for linux isn't that great right now, but usability isn't too bad (not as good as Windows or MacOS IMHO) for the core applications that most people will use (office software, email client, web browser). Things start to fall apart with hardware support, most digital cameras and scanners don't include linux-based OS documentation. The user might be able to get it to work by looking around on the Internet, but that is unacceptable. The hardware really should include the proper documentation and software.. XP had the same problem for a little while too, but Microsoft has enough power to force most hardware manufacturers into providing support for XP. XP seems to be supported pretty well now, but no direct linux support yet from any major manufactures yet :(

Much better than Lindows

[colmore]

This is good to hear. Lindows is a beta product, and acts like it, Mandrake is as competitive as entry level desktop Linux gets these days.

I hope someone will write a *really* good users manual, one that involves the words "terminal" "compile" and "man" as little as possible.

Wal-Mart Shopping List

[rirugrat]

Hmmm...let's see...

Powerbait Rubber Worms (check)
Sam's Pork Rinds (check)
Nascar Queen-size bed sheets (check)
George Foreman Lean Mean Grilling Machine (check)
Unix box (check)

Chris

Re:Wal-Mart Shopping List

[cjpez]

George Foreman Lean Mean Grilling Machine (check)

Hey, those are actually pretty cool. I got one as a present and laughed at it for a bit, but as it turns out, we use it all the time. Seriously, we end up cooking practically everything on it. It's awesome. :P

Yeah, yeah, I know, (-1, Offtopic) :)

Re:Wal-Mart Shopping List

[MAXOMENOS]

Now that you mention it, it is kinda cool that a "cheap" UNIX box has seen a ten fold drop in price, a ten fold increase in processor speed, a thousand fold increase in storage, a twenty fold increase in memory, and a huge leap in user friendliness, since I went looking for one back in 1991.

Plus I can get one at Wal-Mart. Wow.

Re:Wal-Mart Shopping List

[MAXOMENOS]

Excuse me .. I should have said, a 90% drop in price. My mistake.

Re:Wal-Mart Shopping List

[unicron]

They had an SNL skit a few weeks ago, where the girl that plays Martha Stewart was talking about how K-Mart was going under, and she goes "As you may be aware, I offer a clothing line through K-Mart, which you can identify by it's high quality craftsmanship, low prices, and because it's the only think in the entire store without a photo of a nascar driver on it."

Re:Wal-Mart Shopping List

[HuguesT]

In 1991 you could buy a NeXT workstation, which is the equivalent of today's MacOS/X. The rest of your comment is correct, but for user friendliness that O/S is still unmatched.

Did Bill Gates piss Sam Walton off?

[elsegundo]

I'm just curious why Wal-Mart all of the sudden has this affinity to sell computers without MS OSes or competing OSes....

Re:Did Bill Gates piss Sam Walton off?

[The Ape With No Name]

Sam Walton is long dead. But if anyone could piss off the dead, it'd be Microsoft.

Re:Did Bill Gates piss Sam Walton off?

[Cro Magnon]

Walmart is interested in one thing. MONEY!!! Bill Gates charges $$$.$$ for each Windoze machine. Walmart can get one Mandrake cd for $$.$$ and put it on as many machines as they want.

Re:Did Bill Gates piss Sam Walton off?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wal-Mart likes money. The computer OEMs have their hands tied by MS licensing agreements, so they can't take advantage of Linux. Wal-Mart can. Ta da!

I wonder what would happen....

[Fizzlewhiff]

If Walmart struck a deal with AOL to develop a Lindows friendly version of AOL (or a Linux version) and preinstall it on their machines. The cheapest Walmart.com PC is $299. With those prepaid subscription rebates Walmart and AOL could give these machines away.

Re:I wonder what would happen....

[Patoski]

IIRC Lindows is supposed to work with AOL7. I don't think its officially blessed by AOL but a large piece of the scenario you describe is already a reality.

Re:I wonder what would happen....

[nolife]

This is very interesting but I think others have failed going down the cheap appliance subsidized by a monthly fee road before.

IMHO this would be a good reason for AOL to create a well running Linux client was fully integrated into their services. If these machines started selling, it would not be long before companies started releasing "add-on" software, either naturally occuring via supply and demand or with some AOL pressure.

Re:I wonder what would happen....

[hendridm]

apt-get install aol7

Mmmmmm... I picture an explosion of cheap PCs from other manufacturers running Lindows or Linux.

Re:I wonder what would happen....

[Kiaser Zohsay]

Wal Mart's already on it

http://www.walmart.com/walmartconnect/isp/

Can you say "Sam's American On-Line Choice"?

Re:I wonder what would happen....

[Anonymous Coward]

Close, but it would be urpmi for the Mandrake installs.

Re:I wonder what would happen....

[Theom]

That would mean Linux viruses for the masses.

Re:I wonder what would happen....

[hendridm]

> Close, but it would be urpmi for the Mandrake installs.

First of all, I was trying to be symbolic. Second, I thought Lindows was based on Debian?

at last

[Anonymous Coward]

Lindows is redundant.

what will be truly interesting

[paradesign]

is whether Lindows OS or Mandrake will sell better. It will show which OS is more appealing to the non-geek (i use that term lovingly) consumer.

Mandrake preloaded

[VistaBoy]

Isn't EVERYTHING being pre-loaded on Wal-Mart PCs?

Um?

[sheepab]

If I am not mistaken (and I am wrong quite often) werent Microtel PC's that were being sold at WAL-MART preloaded with Lindows? With the earlier story about Lindows changing their marketing slogan, and now this, Im beginning to wonder if maybe there is something going on?

maiformed rant tag

[mrklaw]

dude.. you forgot to begin your tag.. now my browser won't render it correctly!! And in netscape 4.x the whole page will be blank...

Re:maiformed rant tag

[happy monday]

no it just means every other comment on the page will be transformed into a rant.

Re:maiformed rant tag

[dohcvtec]

I thought that's the way the page was tagged already :^)

Off Course !

[Anonymous Coward]

And you know why ?

Because Mandrake is French, and Because American are so stupids that they can not produce a good OS (Lindows, Windows)

Like culture and Food, French is always the best.

You need to know more about our culture, you need to speak French, because french is the nicest language of the World.

So it will be very good that Mandrake become the First OS used in the World, because we are Fed up to use crapy american OS like Windows.

Stupid American, you need to use Mandrake more and maybe you will become smart in a long time...

Re:Off Course !

[Anonymous Coward]

Boycott the French
they don't liek the jews
they are cowards
if it wasn't for the United states, the French would be speaking GERMAN right now (and theyd' all be running SuSE)

drakmart

[Anonymous Coward]

The stupid way Mandrake names things, it would be drakmart.

The only way this will succeed...

[bigfatlamer]

Is if they also pre-configure them with StarOffice or OpenOffice, with all the icons changed to look like MS Office XP icons, install Opera as the default browser, change the icons as above and set it up to mimic IE, install GIMP and change it as above to look like MS Paint, port Real Player and WMP to Linux and then somehow set it up so it crashes more often.

Re:The only way this will succeed...

[miguelitof]

Is if they also pre-configure them

You are assuming that Wal-Mart is aiming these PCs at novices, which I don't agree with. I think Wal-Mart is aiming for geeks who want cheap hardware. But I'll go with your assumption to answer the rest of your comment...

with StarOffice or OpenOffice, with all the icons changed to look like MS Office XP icons,

You think that novice users/new computer owners are going to know the Office XP icons? I've talked with users here at work (I work on a help desk) that have been using Windows and Office for years and still can't remember which icon launches which office app.

As long as the icon is labelled, users won't care what it looks like.

install Opera as the default browser, change the icons as above and set it up to mimic IE,

See above. For a novice user, it'd be better to make the icon look like AOL's icon instead of IE. But the best thing to do is to make sure the icon, no matter what it LOOKS like, is labelled "Internet".

install GIMP and change it as above to look like MS Paint,

Novice users are not going to expect a paint program to come with their computer. And The Gimp is not equivalent to MS Paint, anyway, it's more of a Paint Shop Pro/Photoshop application.

port Real Player and WMP to Linux and then somehow set it up so it crashes more often.

There's a native version of Real Player for Linux; Mandrake includes it with their distro. There's no solution for WMP, of course. For everything that you mentioned in your comment, WMP is the only valid point. Lack of WMP support just may be a problem on these computers. But it won't be a big one.

Re:The only way this will succeed...

[JabberWokky]

There's no solution for WMP, of course. For everything that you mentioned in your comment, WMP is the only valid point. Lack of WMP support just may be a problem on these computers. But it won't be a big one.

Look into mplayer. It plays just about everything: WMV files, DVDs, DivXs, and of course, all your MPGs, AVIs, VIVO files, etc. Excellent support for acceleration, video capture and other hardware features. It is very stable, and does full screen beautifully. There are several GUI interfaces for it now - probably it's major weakeness, as since there is no "standard one", there's not a single really strong one with semi standard interfaces. Work is being done on interfacing it to aRts, so any KDE player interface can control it, though.

--
Evan

Re:The only way this will succeed...

[Jon Howard]

Unfortunately MPlayer requires a bundle of win32 dll's to support certain win32 A/V encodings. For instance, try playing a few wmv's without the /usr/lib/win32 directory in place (or your site config's location).

Yes, it would be extremely sexy to have open source codecs compatible with these, but alas - not today. Volunteer if you're willing.

Re:The only way this will succeed...

[JabberWokky]

The .dll directory has been dwindling as the various codecs have become open source. I was running for quite a long time on a new system before I hit a file that needed one of the w32 files to play. A year ago, even DivX needed a dll - now it's got native and fully open sourced support.

I'm one of those that thinks the "make it work now, and then make it work right" philosophy seems to be the best, most practical and sucessful method. KDE was based on Qt, which is now fully GPL, mplayer works right now, and is being converted to require no binary codecs... make it work, then make it work right.

--
Evan

Re:The only way this will succeed...

[Jon Howard]

The .dll directory has been dwindling as the various codecs have become open source.

It's definitely true that the number is decreasing, but in my experience, the more useful codecs are the ones which are yet to be opensourced. I suspect we simply have different sources for our media; one example, I haven't been able to find many videos from Stileproject that don't require win32 dll's.

A year ago, even DivX needed a dll - now it's got native and fully open sourced support.

...which is extremely cool.

I'm one of those that thinks the "make it work now, and then make it work right" philosophy seems to be the best, most practical and sucessful method. KDE was based on Qt, which is now fully GPL, mplayer works right now, and is being converted to require no binary codecs... make it work, then make it work right.

I totally agree with you, my only concern is that not supporting a chunk of the codecs used in the wild (I would have no way to view Stile's horrible, depraved collection), isn't really what I would define as a "replacement" for WMP. I'm happy to use the win32 dll's, but I suspect that selling them (hell, even using them as I could) might be a trifle illegal in certain jurisdictions. If so, some major media codecs will be unsupported, hence my inability to call MPlayer a replacement for WMP.

Re:The only way this will succeed...

[JabberWokky]

I suspect that selling them (hell, even using them as I could) might be a trifle illegal in certain jurisdictions.

The whole legality of DivX ;-) is questionable - it didn't stop that from becoming arguably the most sucessful of the recent crop of codecs. It was not distributed with Windows or with Windows Media Player, and yet it took off like wildfire.

MPlayer is distributing the DLLs right off their site, right on the same page with the player. At the very least, you could have a "fetchmsttfonts" style script - in SuSE, that goes to MS's site, downloads Verdana, Times New Roman, MS Comic Sans, etc. and displays the EULA, which you can agree to, and installs them all on your system. They can't be distributed with the OS, but they can be installed.

--
Evan

Re:The only way this will succeed...

[Jon Howard]

...have a "fetchmsttfonts" style script...

Debian has something similar for libdvdcss (I think that was the one, it was CSS-related in either casee), the legality of which is questionable in some places, but I have my own feelings about the validity of such laws.

They can't be distributed with the OS, but they can be installed.

You've got a good point, any reservations I have about this technique would lie in my distrust of the "anonymity" the Internet provides, not in locally run software. Well, given that that software itself isn't of dubious providence. ;)

I've been spending way too much time on network security, I'm getting far too paranoid. Nix that, just blame it on all the damned tabloids.

Re:The only way this will succeed...

[Salsaman]

WMP is supported fine by the Crossover plugin. If it were really such a big issue, maybe Wal-Mart could work out a deal with Codewavers and get a volume discount.

Personally I'd rather see WMP with its built in DRM and Microsoft's "let us pay your bandwidth costs" bait and switch, disappear altogether.

Re:this frightens me.

[LinuxGeek8]

I am already frightened by Mandrake. I believe it is a poor choice for Linux users. Linux has not yet become "dummy" enough for the vast majority of users and Mandrake makes it too easy to use and create problems for people.

I'm using Linux now for three years, but I think the "dummy" tools are excellent.
For example; in the beginning I used lpr, ghostscript and apsfilter for printing.
Nowadays almost every distro uses Cups, which had horrible docs a year ago. And I didn't understand one thing of it. There were a few frontends like the webbased interface, but it just didn't want to work with my Epson inkjet.
There comes Mandrake with Cups and printerdrake. Just turn on your printer while installing, or while running printerdrake, and it gives you a recommended driver setup.
No problem with cups since then.

This is just one example, but the Mandrake stuff is quite good imo.

Invididuals that buy this package are going to be open to plenty of exploits, problems, etc. It is going to create a large headache for the rest of us.

Mandrake in Walmart may frighten you, but comments like these frighten me.
What exploits do you mean?
Every piece of software has exploits. After a while there will be known exploits. As long as you install the updates it all should be fine.
Now the question is how many people will actually use the updates, but that's the same story on every OS, especially Microsofts OS's.

I just hope that Mandrake realizes this and moves to at least limit the possiblity of widespread issues that MS has due to the same reasons.

I agree with you here.
I just hope it will have no services installed, and the services that are installed, are only listening on the localhost interface.

Re:this frightens me.(But don't let that stop you)

[Marx_Mrvelous]

Ah.. I see...
I'm prety sure there are automatic update agents for Mandrake, but I'll have to check on that. I know there are update *programs* out there, but whether or not the users use them (just like Windows Update)

I only have a few questions you should ponder

[FortKnox]

When the customer buys the PC and goes to the computer software section and picks up MS Word for their kids, cause they need to type up papers (or games to play, etc...), and it doesn't install on their new shiny boxes, what are they going to think?

When they want to get online, and put in the AOL CD they got in the mail, and nothing happens, what are their impression of Linux?

Software is what makes windows big. Its how they stomped Mac. Is your average Wal-Mart shopper going to be able to know to pick up linux software, and will they be able to install it by themselves?

I'm not going anti-linux, pro-ms, I'm just getting you people to think before patting yourselves on the back.

Re:I only have a few questions you should ponder

[jcast]

I think Walmart will pre-load Open Office. Then, it'll be easier to use that than bother /trying/ to put Office on the computer. We know that'll work, since that's how M$ stomped Netscape.

Re:I only have a few questions you should ponder

[billh]

Many people here are too young to remember the earlier days of personal computing. When a Commodore 64 with a tape drive was considered a luxury item. With Apple, Atari, Commodore, IBM, and others competing for the same (relatively) small market share, there were many options for those that wanted to buy a computer.

When I would walk to the local book store to look at the software (on a shelf with a box of floppy disks that cost more than some CPUs cost now), I would see different sections, with signs like Apple or Commodore or IBM. Most of them had the same games available, too.

Asking my mother for a new game for my birthday didn't involve going with her to the store, writing it down, or ending up with an Atari game for my C64. Without ever touching the computer, she knew it was a Commodore 64, just like I knew that my dad drove a GM station wagon, even though I wasn't allowed to drive it.

Every kid I knew with a computer was able to get the correct kind of software. The small computer lab that we somehow ended up with at my elementary school ended up with the correct software. I never even remember hearing of anyone that had any confusion about the type of computer they were using.

Now, some might say that computers are a commodity item, a mass market item, something that every home needs in the same room as the TV. I have no problem with that. I think it is great, as it will drive down prices for all of us. Let the masses have their Microtel computers.

But when they try to install Windows software on their shiny new computers, we should laugh at them. The same way that 'hillbillies', as people have called them, would laugh at you if you put the wrong fuel mixture in your chainsaw. Read and learn, or be a fool. There is no excuse for ignorance, and it doesn't take much brainwork to figure out what kind of operating system you are running. Read the fucking manual.

Re:I only have a few questions you should ponder

[Capt_Troy]

Sure anyone reading this post is smart enough to do as you say. But Ma Smith isn't going to read the manual, she will try to install AOL and it won't work. She will then proclaim that these Wal-Mart computers suck as will all of those like her. In this way, Linux could get a bad reputation among the general public, which is a bad thing.

Then to compound the problem, you will arrive on scene with your "Got Root?" T shirt and call her a F@#king idiot and the community will get an even worse reputation.

There is no excuse for ignorance, but it is also ignorant to expect everyone to do as you would.

Re:I only have a few questions you should ponder

[FortKnox]

But when they try to install Windows software on their shiny new computers, we should laugh at them. The same way that 'hillbillies', as people have called them, would laugh at you if you put the wrong fuel mixture in your chainsaw. Read and learn, or be a fool. There is no excuse for ignorance, and it doesn't take much brainwork to figure out what kind of operating system you are running. Read the fucking manual.

Before I say anything, I must tell you, that if this is a troll it was well written.

Instead of writing a whole schpeel about how your "eye for an eye" attitude is pointless and silly, and how you think that the best way is to even, instead of giving linux a good reputation, I'll simply say:
Your elitest attitude is why linux will never be the major operating system.

Helping the users is what we need, but it sounds like you're the type of person that doesn't want them using it in the first place. Gotta be better than them some how, eh?

Re:I only have a few questions you should ponder

[billh]

Ma Smith would laugh at me if I didn't use boiling water when I canned my tomatoes, mixed bleach and vinegar when cleaning, or forgot to water my garden and wondered why the plants died.

It takes some knowledge to be able to function in society. If you had never seen a TV, would you know what to do with it? Would you know to plug it in? If you did, how would you get any pictures on it? Most televisions don't come with antennas these days.

My digital camera takes AA batteries, and my 35mm camera takes a special lithium battery. My cell phone has a special battery, and my car takes a battery that doesn't look like any of the others. So if I go to the store and buy a battery, I need to know what kind.

Why are computers any different? If you don't bother to take the time to learn what to do with them, you have wasted your money.

Re:I only have a few questions you should ponder

[billh]

Actually, I don't troll on here, although some think I do from time to time. I promote Linux, it is prevelant on my resume, my side business uses Linux, etc. If I was any good at real programming, I would contribute. As it is, I help people I know with it, as well as helping them with Windows.

I just do not believe that people should assume all computers are Windows (or all Linux is Red Hat, for that matter). Doing so shows ignorance, and is fine if you don't have a computer, or are happy with Windows. But when you shell out $300, or $2000, or any amount of money for a consumer electronics device, you should have some idea what it is, and have nobody but yourself to blame if you don't.

VHS & Beta. LP & CD. 8 Track & Cassette. DVD-R/DVD-RAM/DVD-Whatever. Gas & Diesel. AA & AAA. 1/2" jack & 1/4" jack. Ethernet & Modem (if you've done end user support, you've seen that). All different standards, yet people seem to sort them out somehow. Except for that last one.

Re:I only have a few questions you should ponder

[Nomad128]

These machines have big disclaimers on them on walmart.com, and they presumably would have something similar in stores (or else those stores will get *lots* of returns).

The presence of a major alternative to Windows on the market will raise the awareness of all the Aunt Tilley's out there of which kind of OS they run. Just as in the "good ol' days" when every computer user knew that they had an Apple //e instead of an Amiga, the increased presence of Linux (and OSX?) on the market will help Aunt Tilley to know what she's running, just as she knows that she drives a Taurus and not a Corolla. I mean yeesh, how many users can't read the big letters that say "Windows" on system startup?? Yes, they're out there, but partially only because of the dominance of Windows, and they are indeed quite few who don't even know that they have Windows.

I really think that enough users out there only need the tools provided by KDE or Gnome, OpenOffice, Mozilla, XMMS, and maybe a few others to get what they need out of a computer.

Re:I only have a few questions you should ponder

[ph0rk]

does the box say the machine must be running windows 98/me or 2000/xp?

yes?

am I running those things? no? there you go.

yo don't see too many people buying DVD movies and trying to cram them into their VCRs, now do you? What about putting DVDs into CD players?

People know not to put Diesel into their gasoline-burning cars, and they should be swift enough to read the box on the software before they buy it and know what they had at home.

Re:I only have a few questions you should ponder

[bcwengerter]

But Ma Smith isn't going to read the manual, she will try to install AOL and it won't work. She will then proclaim that these Wal-Mart computers suck as will all of those like her.

Oh, come on. When was the last time you cared what 'Ma Smith' or 'all of those like her' think?

Re:I only have a few questions you should ponder

[Capt_Troy]

Or she might be nice enough to help you learn what you were doing wrong instead of berating you as you would do to her.

Re:I only have a few questions you should ponder

[eugene ts wong]

Hi Josh.

[I've read through the responses to this post, and I wanted to reply to the actual responses, but it was kind of hard, because I would almost end up repeating myself. At least, I think so. If you'd recommend otherwise, let me know.]

Your questions are legitimate, because people for the most part, should be able to buy a computer, and *easily* get the software for it. That being said, I'd agree with Bill, the guy who looked like he was trolling.

I can see a lot of consumer misunderstandings happening *at* *first*, because businesses and consumers need to adapt to this new thing called Linux. However, once the store gets organized, people will begin to shop properly enough that only the most absent-minded or stupid people will make mistakes. That's a harsh description, but I'm including myself in that group. And it's an extreme group, in that the people would have to walk into the wrong section and buy the wrong the software. Even right now, you can walk into a video game store, and rent/buy a dvd for whatever game system. If you make a mistake, and come back and ask for an exchange, then I assume that the stores will usually grant you an exchange. They must offer "good" customer service, right? And the custumer is "always right", right? Well, those are rare situations in and of themselves, and most people do fine.

I believe that this will be similar, statistically speaking, with Linux boxes. You could walk in and make a mistake, and that will be the rare exception.

Nobody should belittle Ma Smith, or Aunt Tilley, but nobody can complain if they do get a bit of a put down. After all, by time they buy a Linux box [that's obviously labelled as such], then they'll know that they can't install Windows software, because Windows isn't in a Linux box, and the salesman would have explained it to them. If the customer doesn't understand that, then I would automatically assume that the store didn't do a good sales job. No problem for Ma Smith or Aunt Tilley. If Ma Smith or Aunt Tilley doesn't listen to the salesman and buys it assuming that they can install whatever they want, then they'll have their come-up'ins [correct sp?]. I still wouldn't belittle them, and those who deal out such come-up'ins aren't elite. That's just life. I think that the few people who get belittled once the economy settles down on this Linux idea, will be few and far between.

A possible way of avoiding any mistakes is to have a message at start up explain that all software must be a Linux version, or whatever the case.

Linux is probably a lot like every other consumer item in that it is good to have a healthy fear of the unknown and ask lots of questions. We shouldn't encourage people to feel comfortable with their computers until they have had a chance to practise doing things and learning about it. I'm not trying to sound elitist or anything. It's just that I don't usually like to encourage people to buy technology until they have a need for it, whether that be Linux or Windows. Just buying it, "just in case", isn't justifiable. Once they buy it when they need it, then wrong software will almost be unheard of.

Regarding the specific case of AOL, I would blame AOL, no matter what the situation, because as time goes on, it's becoming more and more inexcusable for them to not have a Linux version. I wouldn't explain that to Ma Smith or Aunt Tilley, though. I would just politely explain that they need Windows, and that they don't have Windows, and they are out of luck [unless, of course, AOL software works with Wine].

Re:I only have a few questions you should ponder

[Anonymous Coward]

> People know not to put Diesel into their gasoline-burning cars, and they should be swift enough to read the box on the software before they buy it and know what they had at home.

People are used to diesel and gas cars; people are not used to a non-Windows OS on a non-Mac PC.

They've never seen such a beast before; why should they know to check the OS? They haven't had to do that in decades.

Re:I only have a few questions you should ponder

[Anonymous Coward]

Many people here are too young to remember the earlier days of personal computing. When a Commodore 64 with a tape drive was considered a luxury item.

Apparently you don't remember, either. A Commodore 64 with a tape drive was never a luxury item. Even when it first came out in 1982 and was was "expensive" at $595, it wan't a luxury item. The C64's contemporary -- a Lisa with a disk drive -- now that was a luxury item.

A Commodore 64 with a dual-floppy drive, that might have sort of been a luxury item. But if you ever used C64/VIC tape drives, you'd know that a Commodore machine with a tape drive, was never a luxury. It was always pain.

Re:I only have a few questions you should ponder

[Anonymous Coward]

and picks up MS Word for their kids, cause they need to type up papers

What kind of moron buys MS Word for typing up papers?

When they want to get online, and put in the AOL CD

What kind of mor--doh! I just realized, you got me. IHBT.

Re:I only have a few questions you should ponder

[Martigan80]

I think it still just comes down to choice. I'm sure that Wal-Mart will put some kind of label/warning/info about the Linux machines to warn users of the incompatibility with MS products. But this does give a great edge to those kids in high school that are learning linux/unix. Instead of messing-up mom and dads' computer they can get a $400 linux box and do what they want.

I think Wal-Mart would want to limit the number of returns since that costs extra money.

FRENCHIES EVER WIN ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, they did manage to sink that Green Peace boat.

Re:this frightens me.(But don't let that stop you)

[Salgak1]

So. . .how many Windows users regularly visit Windows Update ?

Hint: most users I know have NEVER used Windows Update. . . .I'd guess 10-20% at most. So how would that really differ from Mandrake users ??

Re:this frightens me.

[capt.Hij]

The article says:
Walmart.com has a few well-placed electronics buyers who are savvy to Linux, and a management team looking for ways to reinvigorate stagnant computer sales numbers. The combination has resulted in innovations like the Windows-free Microtel line and has generated strong sales and low return numbers...

Contrary to what was posted in the last slashdot story about this, Walmart is not selling these machines to unsuspecting rubes who are still trying to figure out how the door to their mobile home works. It sounds like Walmart knows their customers which is exactly why they are able to reach a large portion of the American public. A large number of the good folk here at slashdot seems to equate this with ignorant masses but that is not the case.

I live in a small town and have seen what Walmart can do to a community. I don't like Walmart but I certainly am not going to underestimate it. This appears to be a very shrewd move by a company which is the master of its domain.

MANDRAKE IS THE BEST BECAUSE FRENCH ARE THE BEST !

[Anonymous Coward]

Hi !

Thank you, stupid American.

You consider Mandrake like the Best distro of the world, and you are right !

As I said before, French is the smartest people of the World, and as Mandrake is French, Mandrake is the Best !

SuSE, distro of German, poor Quality, totalitarism, Nazism --> Burn it !
Redhat, Lindows, Windows : American , so like Americans are stupid, these products are not good !

thank you American, and please repeat after me :

NOUS SOMMES LES MEILLEURS, NOUS SOMMES LES CHAMPIONS, ON VA BOTTER LE CUL DES AMERICAINS !

Re:this frightens me.

[Drakin]

The same statement can be applied to anyone who purchases a computer with windows.

Anything can be vulnerable when one things outside the way the original coder(s) thought. They didn't see something as being vulnerable, they didn't secure it as much as they could have.

For Linux users, yes, Mandrake might be a poor choice, however, for a computer User, mandrake is a nice and simple way of doing things. i found it rather easy to set up myself, and the inability to easily create a root account means that it remains safer for the user.

Likely there may be better distro's out there, but Mandrake's at least trying to slip into mainstream.

Walmat is unknowingly doing the THE RIGHT THING

[puto]

The Walmart marketing staff undoublty saw the huge Linux user base and are marketing to it. But the reality is we all like to build our boxes are convert an old one when we build the 'master of all boxen(every 4 months). So at least their choice generates much talk on /. Well the good thing is this: When a lower income person has an intelligent child and they wish to purchase the system, they can get one with Linux. The box will have sortsa games and goodies for them to play with. They will be intrigued, and since mom cant fork out for new games (and the lack of games in linux) they will start writing their own, learn gimp, learn the OS in and out) And they will be kept out of the windows world because they will not be able to run burned games from their friends. All of my frinds who are coders I respect started in this manner. They had a Vic 20, C-64, TRS 80, something low end instead of an Apple // which had tons of wares and did everything for you. If you look at your friends(I mean people who are now in their 30's, people who remember the real Wolfenstein, not the PC 3d crap) you will find this true. I see this could lead to a new generation of great coders and admins cuz they were not polluted with other OS's from the get go. When you don't got much, you make what you got do wonders. Puto

Re:Walmat is unknowingly doing the THE RIGHT THING

[Anonymous Coward]

My kid is four years old, and he's been using Mandrake since he was two. I have another box with Win 98 on it, and he uses it too. He can get around the Linux box easier than the Windoze box, and he likes the games that came with the Mandrake distro.

If a four year old is more comfortable with Linux, then the typical Wal Mart customer will be too. As long as the Wal Mart customer in question is getting his first pc, and hasn't been poluted with Windoze "knowledge".

Re:Walmat is unknowingly doing the THE RIGHT THING

[Chexsum]

This is the impression I first got out of this news article. Kids these days are so lucky. Theyd be even luckier to have lived in the days of the C=64 though. :P

Lindows is a joke in my opinion. Id rather see Lycoris as a choice for OS if another had to be chosen. Mandrake is the best OS for GNU/Linux newbies IMO but I am more interested in Lycoris as a distro for non-geeks.

I seen a screenshot of IE6 in Linux last week and had a Samba-mounted Windows drive loading the real thing up on my Debian box within the hour. WINE is getting better each day *thinks of a wine is better with age pun that doesnt fit here*. =)

Re:Walmat is unknowingly doing the THE RIGHT THING

[Theom]

And your Win98 box is still alive? You have a strange kid...

Re:Walmat is unknowingly doing the THE RIGHT THING

[Anonymous Coward]

> The Walmart marketing staff undoublty saw the huge Linux user base and are marketing to it

ROTFL!!! Nice one :-))

Re:Walmat is unknowingly doing the THE RIGHT THING

[Anonymous Coward]

>The Walmart marketing staff undoublty saw the huge Linux user base and are marketing to it

Sarcasm is highly overrated.

Toooooo many beta's

[oliverthered]

Mandrake has far to many betas, and dosn't seem to put updates together for them (at least not on there updates site).

e.g
Mandrake 8.2 ships with,
Mozilla version 1
OpenOffice version 1
Wine version anything
KDevelope 2.1(Beta)
etc.....
There are no updates to Wine on there update site, which is bad since wine is almost 'ready?'

No Mozilla Update,

No OpenOffice Update,

No Kdevelop update.

etc....
If there going to ship beta's and call them selfs 'use-friendly' then they should give you use-friendly builds of updates, or releases as they come along, Mandrake is after all a 'DISTRIBURION'?

Re:Toooooo many beta's

[Anonymous Coward]

Since when does the wine version of mandrake work. It can't even run notepad.exe

Breaking Newz

[56ker Fucker]

Walmart PCs now ship with Sourcerer, Minix, LFS,
and NewOS.

K-mart CEO Charles Conaway said that his company
will respond by adopting more technically sound
OSS products, and beating the competition with a
technical edge. K-mart/GNU/Hurd and K-Prolog are
now on the shelf, just behind the cheap bicycles
and the construction tools (isle A-13 and B-13.)

Re:Breaking Newz

[Anonymous Coward]

My first idiocy spotting is with the misspelling of adopt in your sig.

Re:Breaking Newz

[Anonymous Coward]

I think 56ker has been truly silenced. The modbombing must have blocked his access.

Re:Breaking Newz

[56ker Fucker]

I killed his ambition man, thanks to the help of
alot of friends.

This policy works really well, see how high are his latest posts ;P

Hmmm...

[gamorck]

With all of these conflicting stories coming out of NewsForge today... I would have to question the integrity of their editing staff. I mean comeon guys, in the last two days we've gotten:

(1) Lindows is shipping on Microtel PCs at Walmart!
(2) Lindows/Walmart back off on Windows compatibility claims
(3) Walmart is now going to ship PCs with Mandrake.

This is either really poor reporting or Walmarts Board of Directors has started freebasing. I think the choice here is obvious so I will leave it to you.

J

P.S. In case you were wondering, Walmarts Board of Directors is smoking the weed - they haven't started freebasing quite yet.

Well... if he's a MS Certified Linux speciialist.

[Salgak1]

. . .he knows to bring a boot-disk, do an FDISK /MBR, and install Windoze (g)

This is very good news

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks Walmart. You have made a wise move.

/RANT without RANT

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks. By the end of your post I had it figured out.

WOW!!!

[tadd]

This rules!!! When did Wal-Mart become so cool. Now that they've put so many Mom&Pops out of business I guess they've got bigger fish to fry... like Micro$oft!!!!

Wal Mart, Linux, DMCA

[Vegan Pagan]

So where does this put Wal Mart in the copyright war?

Re:this frightens me.(But don't let that stop you)

[jimson]

Apparently you haven't used Mandrake. It has a nice Update feature that allows you update "exploitable" programs relatively pain free, and again, I don't see how this is any different than thousands of IIS boxes out there unpatched.

Re:Linux Mandrake Review

[eye69]

You must be joking? Where did you find this outrageous piece of utter non-enlightenment?

Go Mandrake!

[Cally]

Been using Mandrake 8.2 for dev work for the last few months and I'm *very* impressed. Most of the traditional Linux pain has gone: stuff 'just works'. Like the IBM geezer said earlier, I can configure XFree86, I'd just much rather not have to bother...

You're about as good as the Vichy government.

[Sergeant Beavis]

I'm guessing you would have rolled over for the Nazis too ehh. Kiss my American ass biotch. You French can do squat except sell out all your people in Louisiana after they were kicked from Canada for refusing to swear loyalty to England.

Re:You're about as good as the Vichy government.

[Anonymous Coward]

Fucking American

Without us, YOU would need to swear loyaulty for England.

Stupid American, We helped you during the war between the piggy americans leaded by Washington and the English.

Without us, you would be a colony of Great Britain.

Respect French people, use Mandrake and learn more about culture bacause you are stupid with your Hambugers...

Re:You're about as good as the Vichy government.

[Sergeant Beavis]

You eat Hamburgers with mayo. You smell because you refuse to bathe. You cower because you are afraid. The France that spawned the great Lafayette no longer exsist. It hasn't since you lost your spine in WWII. Face it, your limp dick province of the EU can't do shit without our help.

Re:You're about as good as the Vichy government.

[Karn]

Amazing. This comment is tagged as Flamebait, but the parent is modded as funny.

OK, I be more politically correct.

[FirstNoel]

When the average user of a windows PC, can play there computer games, use bill paying software, etc, etc....they will be more inclined to by a PC with Linux.

I'm sorry for insinuating that everyone who shops at Wal-mart is "joe sixpack".

Linux is a great operating system, but it won't adopted by the general public until they can do all everything on it that they can do now with windows. No matter who sells it.

What needs to be done is for widespread Business adoption. The more people use it at work, the more applications there will be, thus more people will want to use it at home...

this will take time... I don't believe that even Wal-mart can change it.

Once again to all the Wal-mart Shoppers, I am sorry for calling you "joe sixpack". I will now leave you, and go to my room to think about my mistake.

Sean D.

Good News

[Anonymous Coward]

but the systems will only be listed on the website. Linux based PC's are easy to find this way already, although not by someone with such a big name...

PogoLinux

HP

Nixit

HP/Compaq

and now Walmart.

There are probably others too.

Random thought

[Anonymous Coward]

in the tradition of the Algorithms,

Kernel Panick would be a great name for an MIT-based punk rock group.

mandrake better than lindows

[Anonymous Coward]

Mandrake is much better than lindows and it would give linux much better publicity for sure.

Yes it is...becuase of basic statistics

[mekkab]

Its all about percentages.

I think a fair number of Joe Everybody's will most likely pirate a copy of Windows XP or whatever.

but the question is What is the mean time between plugging in the box when you first get it and installing a Windows OS?
That initial exposure is what's most important.
Also if there is a "kid" in the house (becuase kids don't shell out the money, thus they have no "value" associated with the computer, thus they are more likely to mess-around with it) that kid may be the one installing Windows but he may like linux and the box could be set up to dual-boot.

Give enough people general exposure to linux, and it transforms from "something that them there hakkers use", to "something that worked pretty well, and didn't crash nearly as much as..."

Now maybe those people are in a position to buy some computers for there small company, and maybe now that they've had a favorable experience with linux they decide to save their business a lot of money by becoming a linux shop...

Now that the name is out there, give the people a favorable experience with it and a cute mascot. Tux could be the next mickey mouse!

Re:Yes it is...becuase of basic statistics

[Anonymous Coward]

> Also if there is a "kid" in the house (becuase kids don't shell out the money, thus they have no "value" associated with the computer, thus they are more likely to mess-around with it) that kid may be the one installing Windows but he may like linux and the box could be set up to dual-boot.

If that kid installs Windows, s/he'd better have a Linux boot floppy handy, and be familiar with reinstalling Lilo or Grub, 'cause that MBR will be 0wned by MS when Windows gets done with it.

Re:Yes it is...becuase of basic statistics

[mekkab]

Oh, you know for a fact that the kid got the info on how to do JUST that from a website...
infact a site written SOLELY to explain how to dual boot that specific walmart box!

True, but..

[InnereNacht]

At least it's a step in the right direction. If they see that people respond well to it being available on their website maybe they'll actually put some in retail chains?

I may be a windows "l3w53r", but I'd still love to see a linux flavor I'm familiar with marketed in a big chain like that.

Cool stuff.

Re:True, but..

[Anonymous Coward]

Well it's kind of stupid to sell Lindows if you have a deal with Mandrake to sell their distro. Mandrake is a shitload better than Lindows on a newbie desktop.

Re:this frightens me.(But don't let that stop you)

[MAXOMENOS]

A Mandrake user who installs Ximian GNOME on their computer can upgrade their machine automatically using Red Carpet. I'm 90% sure that this includes necessary Mandrake upgrades.

re: RTFM?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why bother writing really good manuals? None of those bastards read them. They just better have good toll-free technical support.

Yeah right.

Re:this frightens me.(But don't let that stop you)

[Cro Magnon]

As opposed to Windows Update, which didn't even work right the last time I used it (admittedly a long time ago).

Will they sell preloaded Mandrake with The Sims?

[WillSeattle]

One stop shopping - go to Walmart, buy PC with Linux and The Sims preloaded, go home, plug in, have fun.

Sweet!

Mandrake is great until you need to update it

[dilute]

Maybe they got it right now, but in 8.0 and 8.1 the update utility would always die with some RPM dependency issue. It looked pretty good for a couple of months, but then you wanted to install the latest and greatest application upgrades, and slowly but surely, everything started to break.

At least this avoids the Windows Tax.

Re:this frightens me.

[Christianfreak]

By that logic then most people shouldn't even own a computer. Its this kind of uppity "I'm smarter than the average user" that keeps Linux off the desktop.

Linux has not yet become "dummy" enough for the vast majority of users and Mandrake makes it too easy to use

What??? This is a contridiction! You can't have it both ways. Either its easy enough for Joe User or its not. And how can something be too easy to use? I find the command line easier to get around in than Window's (or Mandrake's for that matter) pretty little GUI but that's my opinion.

It sounds like you want to have educated users before you bring Linux to the desktop, but the users aren't going to be educated until they have a choice to use it.

Rectal

[Anonymous Coward]

The rectal route has been considered more accurate than oral or axilla measurements, but few studies exist that directly compare them to rectal measurements (Fulbrook 1993a). A rectal temperature is measured from a thermometer inserted 3-4cm into the anus. Rectal temperature has been found to be up to 0.5C higher than core temperature (Heindenreich and Giuffe 1990). However, Erickson and Kirklin (1992) found that it lagged behind core body temperature by approximately 0.5C. Fulbrook (1993b) suggests that a soft stool can influence a reading.

Rest In Peace, Biggie Smalls!

Holy fucking crap, it's what I've always wanted.

[benploni]

A Mandrake preload on a cheap (damn near disposable) pc? I'm in heaven!

This is VERY good news.

Why Mandrake?

[sys49152]

Assuming that Walmart is going to do an unadulterated Mnadrake install, then I really think that it's going to confuse the heck out of their customers - despite Mandrake's rep as a desktop OS.

I don't understand why they did not go for something along the lines of Lycoris or OEone. A streamlined, consistent Linux OS designed to be used by non-techies.

Red Hat

[wackysootroom]

My question is, why hasn't Red Hat jumped all over this? It's risky, but if it pays off, people will be demanding that software companies create games and office suites for our Linux.

Red Hat has a good thing going, but couldn't it get better? Will this push Mandrake ahead of RedHat in terms of popularity?

Only time will tell.

Re:Red Hat

[Anonymous Coward]

your such an idiot.

Re:Red Hat

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but I have bigger balls.

Re:Red Hat

[Anonymous Coward]

Listen Homo. My balls are bigger then a goats which makes me good for having goat sex with your mom.

Re:Red Hat

[Centove]

RedHat is targeting a different market, mainly the businesses, they don't want the home/desktop market.

Re:this frightens me.

[pstreck]

Ok, I hate Mandrake, RedHat and SUSE personally. To me they're just not geeky enough. If it aint debian, i prolly aint gona run it. But the point being is that even though mandrake isn't for geeks, it is for some people. Those dummy tools are great for someone who has never heard of a man page. I would never run mandrake on my pc, but I wouldn't feel uncomfortable putting it on my fathers, or little brothers pc.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Who cares?

[stankyho]

Personally I could give a shit what the average Wal-Mart(not Wallmart or WalMart) shopper buys. These are available at walmart.com the web site not the store! Its not for your average white-trash, NASCAR fan to buy. They'll get the HP-in-a-box they sell at the STORE. These are probably going to be someone's second computer anyway.

do we now have to say

[Anonymous Coward]

GNU/Wal-Mart?

'Shovelware' of GPL software?

[DivideByZero]

So, who's going to be the first company to make up CD's full of click-to-install games and applications for Mandrake, to be hung on a peg next to the $300 computer at $15/ea?

Seriously - Why not?

And I think Joe Consumer will be willing to put up with the diffrence between OpenOffice and MSOffice for the $x00 dollars price diffrence. Hell, they're shopping at Wal*Mart, for crying out loud - You KNOW they're looking for a bargain!

Re:'Shovelware' of GPL software?

[Anonymous Coward]

shit if they do that ...I'LL BE BUYING IT!!!

i'll setup my grandma, and other potential users with basic computer needs.

i'll put big ole icons on the desktop with renamed easy to understand labels....

SWEET!

Re:'Shovelware' of GPL software?

[Anonymous Coward]

For $300, you can afford to get your young siblings/nephews/nieces/kids their own Linux boxes.

An easy-to-use, stable system that won't become obsolete quickly (like Windows, where two years down the road the latest Office and Windows are bogging down your machine).

You've got an almost good schtick there...

[Anonymous Coward]

You should get yourself a login somehting like "De Gaulle" or "Frencie the Rude Bastard Frog" so that you could build up a coherent brand. You might get more biters if you were a little less over the top though.

Lord knows how the trolls love to put on the "Ugly American" hat. You're sure to be a hit!

Re:You've got an almost good schtick there...

[Anonymous Coward]

The US went farther in the World Cup than France. HAHAHA LMAO OMG YOU FROGGIES REALLY SUCK.

:-)

Re:You've got an almost good schtick there...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but in the ned Brazil will win.

Re:You've got an almost good schtick there...

[Anonymous Coward]

Ribbit.

Re:You've got an almost good schtick there...

[Anonymous Coward]

Nah.. it's going to be Senegal.

The way things are going...

[resonator]

...they'll replace the traditional Walmart smiley face with a smiley tux =)

Re:The way things are going...

[Telecommando]

Actually, with Wal-Mart's raw bulk buying power over the American marketplace, it's more likely we'll see Tux replaced with Wal-Mart's smiley face.

Re:MANDRAKE IS THE BEST BECAUSE FRENCH ARE THE BES

[Anonymous Coward]

As I said before, French is the smartest people of the World

But they sure isn't the best football players anymore.

Go USA

Hilarious

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, your post made my day!

Support nightmare

[Zen Mastuh]

I am a big fan of Linux, but I think it unwise to sell anything other than Wintel/AOL PCs at Wal-Mart. Can you imagine the support nightmares that their demographic can produce?

A possible /. interview?

[sielwolf]

Ok we have seen a pretty consistent stream of articles about how Walmart/walmart.com have taken a decided interest in pushing non-MS OS machines (be they Linux based or clean).

But the 10k question is: who is behind this? I mean, this isn't like some normal free or open software guru we've known for ten years. Somebody at Walmart must be putting their John Hanncock on this.

Personally I'd like to get to know a little more about them (to congratulate them at least). Even more so I'd like a little more insight in to what got them started on this and how it all went down.

Short take of this Post: I wanna /. Interview! I'm sure it would go over huge.

To me this seems to be one of the first mainstream (outside of the IT industry and for endusers) acceptances of things most geeks hold dear. Who wants to miss this part of history?

Re:A possible /. interview?

[nolife]

I view this differently. The department store operation and computer selling in general is cut throat. Walmart needed a way to stand above the crowd and sell PC's for less then the competition. Walmart and Microtel got together and started offering cheap PC's with no OS at all. To 99.99% of computer users that planned to stay legal, the PC was useless, remember the first versions had a Winmodem so in theory, Linux was out also. Microtel switched modems and shortly there after started shipping with Lindows. Both Walmart and Microtel come out looking better because Walmart is getting more for there money and Microtel added very little cost to their bottom line. Now the same is happening with Mandrake. Mircotel ships a more stable full operation system with the PC's (no disto jokes, just making a point here). Again both companies gain. Walmart could probably care less what the hell the machine runs, as long as they are not paying any more for it, after all, they initally were happy selling it with nothing on it. I think Microtel's and more so Walmart's involvement in choosing Linux is next to null.

Re:A possible /. interview?

[Fascist Christ]

I used to work at Walmart (very briefly, and as a cashier no less) so I was forcefed the "Walmart Culture" and got to talk to other associates that were more in the know. At one point I asked:

If you're culture demands the best for the customer, insisting on having the lowest prices, why is that I rarely ever see linux-related software?

The reply was that there isn't really a substantial market for it, ie: low demand. Preloading Linux on the PCs only seems logical. Most likely, the Waltons confronted the one who came up with the no-OS idea and slapped him/her on the wrist really hard for their stupidity in skrewing the customers on an essentially useless purchase (being that they would have to go back and purchase someting else when they got that message "No operating system found" or otherwise return it to the store).

ⓕⓘⓡⓢⓣ circle post

[Anonymous Coward]

unicode, bah

Dude! You're getting a Panaphonics!

[Anonymous Coward]

or is it a Magnetbox?

Re:Dude! You're getting a Panaphonics!

[unicron]

That's an ok model, but if you really like to watch your tv, and I mean REALLY like to watch your tv, you should go with this baby. It comes complete with 3 prong outlet plug, molded grips for easy carrying, and a high gloss fake wood finishing.

Homer: I'll take it!

Why are the streets of Paris lined with trees?

[Zen Mastuh]

So the German soldiers can march in the shade.

Danke Schoen!

Re:Why are the streets of Paris lined with trees?

[Theom]

France, England and the USSR where the ones who fought the main battle.

Computers at Wal-Mart

[jazman_777]

Mandrake, eh? Only fat clients at Wal-Mart!

I love shopping at Wal-mart, I feel thin there.

Re:Computers at Wal-Mart

[WetCat]

Wal-Mart-Drake anyone?

Good luck. I couldn't do it on my Compaq.

[Sans_A_Cause]

Horrible install with Mandrake 8.2. Buggy. X crashing constantly. Installed RedHat 7.2. No problems. I don't think Mandrake is the right distro for the Wal-Mart crowd.

To be fair, though...

[Anonymous Coward]

My aunt had a similar experience with a Windows machine she bought at Wal-Mart a few years ago (when bargain PCs didn't run everything off the shelf). Your scenario and her situation wouldn't occur with a bit of research by the customer or a bit of explanation from the clerk. If they work to differentiate the Linux machines from the Windows machines the same way they would in theory differentiate Macintosh from Windows (different sections for computers and software) this won't be much of a problem. Assuming they get to the point where they demo and sell the stuff in their stores, of course.

This is not true

[Capt_Morgan]

Most locals do not *choose* to work in sweatshops at all. What happens is that in exchange for US foreign aid countries agree to let US businesses in. They give these businesses land to build their factories. This land is usually being farmed by the local inhabitants. Since after the factory is built there is no more farm it's either work in the sweatshop or starve to death.

Re:This is not true

[Anonymous Coward]

yes i can just see the giant country that is china displacing all their farm land to build nike runners & walmart t-shirts. give your head a shake man

"hello, wal-mart techinal helpdesk...

[Anonymous Coward]

... I'd like to report a problem with my computer. I've been running it for several days straight and I just had to ask; Why hasn't it crashed yet? My last one did."

Re:"hello, wal-mart techinal helpdesk...

[Anonymous Coward]

Answer: Your last computer had applications, your new one doesn't.

WalMart drives IT standards

[fetta]

If WalMart starts using Linux desktops for their own business, that will have a much bigger impact. For example, if WalMart were to tell all of its vendors and suppliers that they have to submit their documents using open file formats instead of MS proprietary formats, that would create a ripple effect across corporate America.

Technology review had an interesting article on this very topic a few months ago.

The reason is simple. Wal-Mart is by far the commercial world's most influential purchaser and implementer of software and systems. It is the 800-pound gorilla in a retail jungle of bonobos and howler monkeys. Microsoft and Cisco may set technical standards; Wal-Mart sets business process standards. When Wal-Mart--which is bigger than Sears, Kmart and J. C. Penney combined--wants global suppliers like Procter and Gamble or GE or Pfizer to comply with its inventory software and data networks, they do so or else. "Everyday low prices" don't come cheap.

*-snip-*

This power of procurement facilitates the procurement of power. Suppose Wal-Mart decided that it would be economically advantaged by abandoning proprietary software formats in favor of "open source" to manage its supplier interactions. Imagine the ripple--or rather, tsunami--effect on the future of systems design and development in the retail, wholesale and consumer goods sectors. What happens to a Microsoft or Oracle in that environment?


Hopefully, selling Linux PCs is just the first step. When WalMart starts using Linux-based PCs internally, then the game will really change.

AOLinux?

[YrWrstNtmr]

Is there an AOL client for Linux? Don't think so.

That may put a brake on things. Unfortunately, AOhelL IS the biggest way people get online. No AOL...a lot of people will pass.

Re:AOLinux?

[thedarkstorm]

Actually I think your wrong buddy boy. All signs point to a push into the linux market by AOL.
Read this link:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/2436 4.html

Then look at the partner list/product support at the Lindows site:
http://www.lindows.com/lindows_products_det ails.ph p?id=8830

Viva la ne central heating pas

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah, France, the land of a continually conquered Alsace Lorraine, no central heating, good manners but dogs beneath the tables, spirit of revolution with no where to go.

Your chocolate is divine, but your women are loose.

Italian films are better, Dutch design is more important, and the French Citroen looks like a trench-coated fat man.

By the way, sorry your football team lost. Maybe there are some Jews running around you can punish. . .

Re:Viva la ne central heating pas

[RebelTycoon]

Your chocolate is divine, but your women are loose.

Are loose women suppose to be a negative? I must say I enjoyed my time in Paris and Cannes... The beaches were oh so beautiful...

Oh well back to work..

how 'bout NO operating system.

[prisen]

The way to buy a computer..

'Build Your Own PC and Save a Bundle' $40

Motherboard, CPU, HDD, FDD, Case/PSU, Video, Sound, etc..$

Complete freedom of choice in installing, configuring, maintaining, and working with your computer:
PRICELESS, kthx.

Re:how 'bout NO operating system.

[Anonymous Coward]

Complete freedom of choice in installing, configuring, maintaining, and working with your computer

You still have that freedom even if you buy the one with Mandrake pre-installed, y'know. You can always wipe the OS.

Re:how 'bout NO operating system.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sam's Club (Wal-Mart wharehouse store) carries, in the stores, a bare-bones system with a couple Linux discs in the box. ~$300. I don't remember which distro, but probably Mandrake, considering that what they've got at walmart.com. . .

That is not what the GPL is about.

[Ted_Green]

It's about giving the source with the binary.
Free has nothing to do with it.

Sure, Wallmart could go burn themselves an iso and install it on all their computers, but chances are they're paying Mandrake somewhere between $5 and $10 per computer sold. Which is why Mandrake is supporting them. (both in a technical and a "moral" sense)

Re:That is not what the GPL is about.

[Jobe_br]

Precisely. I'm not entirely sure where the "GPL means free" got started (probably RMS or thereabouts) - but just because a company makes a GPL product does not by any means mean they have to give it away. It means that if you purchase the product, you can get the source. When you get the source, you can use it or give it to someone else, provided you maintain all the GPL verbage. At no point in there does it mean that you can walk up to any company and demand their GPL product for free ... or that a company cannot sell their GPL product.

Re:That is not what the GPL is about.

[HiThere]

The GPL says that if you buy a copy of the software, you can do what you want with it, as long as you keep it under the GPL. (So if WalMart distributes the binaries, they need to make the source available.)

If WalMart bought *1* boxed set, then that's all they'd need to do. Now service, manuals, etc., that's something totally different.

Moral quandary...

[binarytoaster]

Wal-Mart... but... Linux PCs... but... Wal-Mart... but... Linux PCs....

AAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHH

No, This Is A Bad Thing

[hotsauce]

In a world where it is a struggle to get the average user to use Mac OS because they are so used to Windows and confused by the smallest differences in user experience, I think pitching Linux to the average user is a Bad Thing. The average user will try it and hate it for eternity.

Remember the Newton? It became a killer PDA, but it could never live down the first rev's handwriting recognition reputation.

Until Linux has a polished user experience (user interface and hardware/software compatibility) this should not be attempted. I know someone who got an iBook, got a scanner without checking compatibility, and then found there wasn't an OS X driver really hated it.

Re:MANDRAKE IS THE BEST BECAUSE FRENCH ARE THE BES

[TurboThy]

As I said before, French is the smartest people of the World

I'll bite. First off, it's "[the] French are the smartest..." Second, if the French are so darned smart, explain the Maginot line please? IHBT.

VIVA LA RIBBIT

[Anonymous Coward]

Funny, all the money flowing in Paris is AMERICAN.

Funny, all the great literature from France in the last 75 years has been AMERICAN (Foucalt, Sartre not withstanding.)

Funny, can't remeber the last time I bought something French for my home that WASN'T AN ANTIQUE.

Ca va?

actually...

[Anonymous Coward]

--I live in the semi sticks. There's a small handful of local small computer shops, 2 out of 3 of them really suck. You can drive to the local walmart and walk out the door with a new machine for 400$. I've been in there and seen people buying them for that matter. In these sucky local "computer" shops they want at least a grand for the same thing basically.

rough decision.

Re:this frightens me.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sorry, but I just don't understand this.

The base 8.2 comes with a GRsec-patched kernel (Ok, it doesn't work right when trying to set it up, but at least it's there) and msec. If you have any clue at all, Mandrake can be locked down tight without any effort.

Really, this "geek" thing is silly. If you want to really brag about your prowess, roll a Slackware or maybe even an OpenBSD on a laptop. As you yourself note, it ultimately comes down to personal preference; linking that preference to a level of expertise is dubious at best.

Look out Fry's, Best Buy, Dell?

[g8orade]

WalMart is already the largest GROCER in the USA. I'd look out if I were any other hardware reseller in the world.

Look for similar moves from other hardware resellers soon.

Mandrake a good choice too

[Lewis Mettler, Esq.]

Wal-Mart is helping to show the way.

Offering Mandrake and Lindows is a good move.

Xandros is also about to be released. That too will be a meaningful distribution.

HPaq also supplies Mandrake on some systems but charges just as much as for XP. And, that is too much.

Maybe when SUN brings out a desktop system with SUN Linux, Hpaq wakes up and IBM decides to help promote linux on the desktop instead of just taking orders; things will change.

Those corporations that can use StarOffice, OpenOffice, etc., but write their own custom applications need to seriously consider linux on the desktop. Java is a choice. And, Delphi/Kylix offers a good quality RAD system for development. Assuming that the GNU stuff is not up to your expectations.

Finally a coup of Microsoft wouth commenting on

[bsharitt]

While the Lindows announcement was good in the anit-Microsoft arena, it wasn't all that good anywhere else. I'm glad Wal-Mart will be selling real Linux boxes. No I wish I would have held off on buying my new iMac.

still cheap plastic crap

[stego]

its just cheap plastic crap with an alt operating system...

Re:still cheap plastic crap

[Fig, formerly A.C.]

As opposed to a ctrl alt del operating system!

without MS all PCs should cost a lot less

[Lewis Mettler, Esq.]

The suggested retail price for Ms XP is $200.

That is a stiff item at the low end.

OEMs like Hpaq, IBM, DELL and Gateway should begin to offer PCs sans OS as an alternative.

If they all get together and just tell the idiot to stuff it, they could do business on their own terms.

Idiots like Gates do not deserve to be in business. They are a leach on society, harmful to all consumers and harmful to the industry as well.

Re:without MS all PCs should cost a lot less

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah unless you're one of those horrible people who don't neccisarily pay for software...my cracked non activation copy of XP Pro runs just fine.
You want to hate someone for crappy pricing schemes? Start with your OEM ya tool!

Re:without MS all PCs should cost a lot less

[boopus]

You can call Bill Gates unethical, but I think you'll have a hard time backing up your claim that he's an idiot, seeing as he runs and created one of the most comercially sucessfull companys out there. All you're doing is "Spreading FUD" about Microsoft... Microsoft is in the business of making money - as a public company, they HAVE to have the goal of creating value for their shareholders.

Re:without MS all PCs should cost a lot less

[theladyboo]

If comanies would stop charging so much for software, people would be less likely to copy it. I still have my os9 apps, why? because I can't afford $700 to upgrade my adobe software. so i run os9 and osx. bill gates might be sleazeball and leach but unfortunately he is not an idiot. people should learn to think again and buy with their brains, not their gut marketing instinct. then again they've had the gov'ment thinking for them for so long that they have no clue. these people deserve windows.

Re:without MS all PCs should cost a lot less

[zerocool^]

The suggested retail price for Ms XP is $200.

That is a stiff item at the low end.

OEMs like Hpaq, IBM, DELL and Gateway should begin to offer PCs sans OS as an alternative.

You're missing 2 things:

1.) Windows does not cost us the same per licence as it does HP or Dell. They get it at a discount.

2.) In accordance with their agreement with Microsoft, they get a discount IF and ONLY IF they put Windows on EVERY MACHINE THEY SELL. Hence why if you buy a comptuer from dell, you get windows. Now, if you buy a server from dell, you can get no OS or RedHat or one of several options, but that's a seperate agreement.

So, In order for the big guys to sell computers sans OS, they lose all discounts on other copies of windows they get, something that would cost them more in the long run.

Regards,
Will

Re:without MS all PCs should cost a lot less

[Anonymous Coward]

Lewis! Good to see you. your viewpoints are more inline with this community than at ZDNET and MSNBC. And the plus is they won't ban you! But you will be modded down if you repeat the same things over and over (Hint Hint). Now that you have some elbow room let's see some more depth in your responses than those you gave at ZDNET.

Cheers,
Safely Anonymous

Re:without MS all PCs should cost a lot less

[Lewis Mettler, Esq.]

..fair comment...

See my web site for the low down on the hearings today.

And, send an email off to CNet and let them know how you feel too. Either way.

You know as far as being repetative, you need to first decide whether the post is responsive. If it is responsive, then the "above post" is also repetitive and some do try to simply make you change your mind by suggesting the same responsive reply should be banned.

If a post is a non-sequitur, I fully agree. And, of course some posters use non-sequiturs simply to change the subject. Bringing it back on the topic should be welcomed.

Re:without MS all PCs should cost a lot less

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you'll have a hard time backing up your claim that [Bill Gates] is an idiot, seeing as he runs and created one of the most comercially successfull companys out there

Gates may not be an idiot, but the "he's worth X, therefore he must be proportionally intelligent" claims are ridiculous.

Gates also had his first business or two flop. So far, his company did one risky licensing move and got lucky -- Q-DOS paid off in a big way. They wrote a few apps that were popular, and then they maintained a monopoly.

Any respect I have for Gates comes from the fair amount of software he wrote back in the day, not at all for his business successes. And do you *really* think that Gates is the business Machiavelli holding together a monopoly today? There are eight bazillion advisors and execs working with him...if you think all of Microsoft's moves come from Gates, you're nuts.

Re:without MS all PCs should cost a lot less

[boopus]

I didn't say he's worth X amount of dollars. Net worth means verry little. The fact that he started and ran a company, however, means something. Running a company requires skill. "Microsoft has questionable business practices" is a statment that can be backed up and defended. I don't beleive "Bill Gates is an idiot" can be, and is only wishfull thinking.

On slashdot next week...

[littleRedFriend]

97% of the Walmart computer buyers don't know what Mandrake Linux is, call a 'computer-literate' friend, who is very good with fdisk, and have it replaced by an illegal copy of windows within two days after the purchase.

Re:On slashdot next week...

[Fig, formerly A.C.]

IIRC, Wal-Mart actually sells "naked" PCs. Since Mandrake will doubtless get at least _some_ money for each installed copy, I'd think the naked PCs would be cheaper and thus would be the choice for what you describe. And the Wal-Mart customers who shop at the website are probably in the 3% you weren't talking about anyway!

Now We Get To See If Mandrake Is Really Up To It

[RAMMS EIN]

Now that John & Jane Doe can buy PCs with Mandrake pre-installed, we get to see if Mandrake is really as intuitive and as great a desktop OS as they claim to be...Good luck Mandrakesoft!

If this works out well, the Doe family might tell their friends about the greatness of Linux, who will then order their Walmart Box, and soon Walmart and Mandrakesoft will be stinking-ass rich, with lots of others jumping on the new market opportunity. Then people might actually care about non-Windows-users again and distribute their work in portable formats.

If, however, people are negatively impressed by Mandrake, that could deter them from using Linux, or Free operating systems or even Free software in general. Not that I care too much, to be honest I enjoy the elite feeling I get from running software that most of my friends and acquaintances have never heard of.

Nobody's asking the obvious question...

[baldass_newbie]

How is the 'Joe Sixpack' in question going to connect to the 'net?
Configure a PPP script?
How are they going to get their DNS names? Configure their email? Get their access numbers?
This isn't meant as flamebait, but these are hurdles anyone setting up a dial-up Linux box has had to get by.
How is this going to fly in the mass market? Will Mandrake walk them through? Is Earthlink getting their CD presses ready with Linux versions?
Trust me, this will be the Next Big Linux Problem. (now that fancy guis and cheap machines and distribution are out of the way.)
Otherwise, they're just going to pull the bottom feeders from penguincomputing.com.

-J

Re:Nobody's asking the obvious question...

[WetCat]

Wow! Did you try Mandrake? EASY! EASIER than Win XP! Much easier!
This tasks are awfully good managed by mandrake installer and configuration!
Mandrake is right now the best Linux distro I ever saw.

Re:Nobody's asking the obvious question...

[baldass_newbie]

I'm not talking about the tools (some are easy, some are less obvious).
I'm talking about mining the data from their ISP. Some ISPs don't even want to hear you say 'Linux'.
That's just the way it is.
As for Mandrake being easier than XP, you don't have to sell me. I've been installing it since version 5 (basically a repackaged Red Hat.) I'm gearing up for getting people to move over from XP. It's really been horror story after horror story. Little stuff, but people are getting tired of crappy software.

Re:Nobody's asking the obvious question...

[WetCat]

One word: www.gtcinternet.com
While their support is trained for only Win,
they use ordinary PPP that should not be a problem for Linux, they have dialup numbers nationwide and cost (right now) 9.95/month

Hardware Specs for $299 Unit

[Milican]

I e-mailed Microtel Computer Systems and asked them what their hardware specs were for their SYSMAR701 PC With 850 MHz Duron. I got a response back on 6/17/2002. Anyway, the motherboard for the $299 PC is the MSI MS-6378X-L (MS-6378 V.3) [msicomputer.com]. A quick rundown of major specs is shown below:

• 200/266MHz FSB, Supports AMD Duron/Athlon/Athlon XP up to 2000+
  
• Ultra DMA 66/100, 2 PC100/133 DIMM Sockets up to 1GB
  
• Integrated Trident Blade3D AGP Graphics Engine shared memory up to 8MB
  
• Micro-ATX Form Factor, 3 PCI, 1 CNR, AC 97, 2 USB, AGP 2x
  
• ADMTek AN983B 10/100 BaseT Ethernet
  

Also, I should note the motherboard used changes based on model. Not bad for a $299 PC with Linux!

JOhn

P.S. Big thanks to Rich at Microtel for the quick repsonse :)

Re:Hardware Specs for $299 Unit

[MsGeek]

Anyway, the motherboard for the $299 PC is the MSI MS-6378X-L (MS-6378 V.3)

That's no slug of a motherboard. I was expecting PC Chips crap, like EliteGroup or Amptron, but MicroStar International is not a company that makes crappy motherboards.

I've had one exemplary experience in dealing with MSI. I was putting together a machine with an ancient 486 motherboard. It was a weird bugger too...it had PCI SLOTS and none of the VESA Local Bus slots you expect on a 486. Anyway, I needed the jumper diagrams and the support area of the web site had nothing.

What did those nice folks at MSI do for me? They scanned the whole Fine Manual for me to a series of .JPGs, then they emailed the .JPGs to me. I had my jumper settings, they had a happy customer.

These machines are BARGAINS, folks. And to have them preloaded with a DECENT Linux distro is a Very Good Thing (tm) indeed. Yeah, Wally-Mart is an evil place. But so are most of the other big discount store chains. And often, what Wally-Mart does, more palatable establishments like Target will follow.

Ha ha, Bill Gates! Just watch as the floodgates open, and there's a cascade of bargain PCs with Linux pre-installed rushing out over the country!! Did I hear a "Glub, glub" somewhere near Redmond, WA?

PS: who makes their hard drives?

Re:Hardware Specs for $299 Unit

[anymoose]

Thanks for posting the motherboard specs. I think I am sold!

I am happily using an open source all-in-one Linux server distribution from www.e-smith.org to run my 40 node small business network on a very stable category 2 (400MHZ IBM) machine.

The specs on the Microtel machine tempt me to upgrade my hardware to e-smith category 3 (http://www.e-smith.org/docs/manual/5.1/hardwareca t3.html) which will allow heavy use.

It turns out that all that is needed for this server is what is provided by Walmart at $299. I will install e-smith in 10 minutes, take another hour to restore my existing data with the web backup feature and I will be done.

After that, I may use my old server to implement Hsing Foo Wang's (experimental) SME High Availability HowTo. Then I will have failover capability in seconds.

Open Source is just amazing!

Paul Miller

Re:♫ First musical request post! ♪

[Anonymous Coward]

Tupac sucked.

Too bad it can't have a legal DVD movie player...

[CodeShark]

...pre-installed, because of the damned DMCA.

Otherwise all of these Walmart/Mandrake PC's can be classified as illegal devices designed to circumvent digital copyright mechanisms, which IIRC is a felony crime in the US now, right?

Of course, most tech-savvy users will simply go out on the non-US net to get and compile a deCSS's codec onto their machines. Unless I missed something along the way in terms of a licensed DVD codec for Linux.

Walmart and censorship

[fetta]

Walmart is censoring your culture.

Allowing Walmart to choose what not to carry is the necessary consequence of not allowing the government to tell you what you can and can't carry.

And how do you intend to enforce a "right to be free of undue pressures to self-censor"?

Do you want a law that requires Walmart to carry magazines/books/etc of which it disapproves? Then who gets to decide?

Turn it around. Let's assume that you run your own bookstore. Do you want the government telling you that you have to promote ideas with which you disagree?

Note: I'm not disagreeing with you that Walmart's dominance has negative consequences - I'm just not sure that any likely solution wouldn't have worse consequences.

Re:Walmart and censorship

[SirSlud]

> And how do you intend to enforce a "right to be free of undue pressures to self-censor"?

Thats pretty easy. Make sure nobody can get super big. I think that the concept of economy of scale has costs that are both social and cultural. Yes, many people will laugh at me for worrying about social and cultural consequences of fostering pure economic goals. I dont care anymore, because it seems to me that the advertised ultimate goal of free-market capialism is to help people attain wealth in order to foster cultural and social health, safety, etc in addition to spurring technological development. (Although, with technology, whats the point of keeping people alive and physically safe if the social and cultural things one requires in order to enjoy life are sacrificed to attain it? I'm not anti-technology, but I think people lose sight of what the purpose of it is .. )

It just seems silly to me to encourage attaining massive amounts of wealth and economic leverage if it has negative consequences on the advertised goal of the system in the first place. And just because you or I dont want to see those covers doesn't mean that it doesnt make a lick of difference to me that my neighbour, who would like them, cant. My potentially laughable form of altruism is simply a way of paying my interests and values forward .. I dont want this to go furthur to the point where I feel my ability to enjoy and access to my culture is being opressed.

Re:Walmart and censorship

[karmawarrior]

Does the fact that it's wrong for the government to force Wal*Mart to stop controlling the content what it sells mean that Wal*Mart is right to control that content? Does it mean, as you appear to imply, that anyone advocating not shopping at Wal*Mart because of its alleged repressive policies is wrong, and if so, are you, by your own argument, forcing people to buy at Wal*Mart?

I didn't read anyone advocating government intervention here. I read people saying that Wal*Mart engages in repressive sales policies which impact on what types of content people can easily access, and that those policies justified avoiding Wal*Mart and supporting alternative outlets. So I don't quite see the reason for the knee-jerk anti-government response.

The fact that the government doesn't ban the repression of content, and arguably doesn't have the moral right to do so, doesn't make repressing content right. And it certainly doesn't mean we have to encourage them.

Re:Walmart and censorship

[SN74S181]

Make sure nobody can get super big.

Wow. You're willing to lay it all out in the open.

Who are the controlling bodies, er.. censors, who decide when 'big' has crossed over the line and become 'super big?'

Oh, and the advertised goal is 'Freedom' not 'Free market capitalism.' The capitalism is just one possible result of said freedom.

Re:Walmart and censorship

[fetta]

I didn't read anyone advocating government intervention here. I read people saying that Wal*Mart engages in repressive sales policies which impact on what types of content people can easily access, and that those policies justified avoiding Wal*Mart and supporting alternative outlets. So I don't quite see the reason for the knee-jerk anti-government response.

Fair enough - I don't really disagree with you here. The proper response is to take your business elsewhere and encourage others to do so.

My "anti-government" response came out because the original posting was made in terms of "rights", and in the U.S. discussions of rights generally lead to discussions of laws to enforce those rights.

The Windows tax

[ProfDumb]

danheskett says:

"So Wal-Mart figures they can save $100-$200 on each computer sale by putting on Mandrake and probably Open Office" Thats a complete and utter load of bull crap. $200? Hardly. Hardly. Hardly. Assuming that Mandrake is giving them the OS for free (and I dont know that we can do that, but lets go with it anyways), they'd probably be saving between $40 and $80 a unit . . . YOU'VE ALWAYS BEEN ABLE TO GET CHEAP HARDWARE. why this whole crap about the "Windows Tax". Its a lie, a myth!

Wow, you are a little worked up, huh?

You imply that a $40-$80 dollars savings is approximately nothing, but at this price level that is hardly true, it is 10-20% of the cost of the whole bundle. Walmart won't do this if Windows was close enough to free so as not to matter.

Also, while you, Mr. Sophisticated Computer Guy, may have known how to buy a bare computer, the average Joe hasn't and having these computers at WalMart is a way (perhaps the first way) for Mr. Joe to avoid the cost of MS software (i.e. the colorfully named "Windows Tax").

Re:The Windows tax

[div_2n]

"Buy the machine from a Windows-selling OEM and refuse the EULA thne call MS and get your money back for that license."

I seem to recall a few years back a whole group of Linux users got together and tried to do just that. Any guess on the MS reply? "No soup for you!" They have their money and have no intentions of giving it back. Ever. Nice idea though.

BAND WAGON JUMPER

[Anonymous Coward]

Wal-Fart is a band wagon jumper... they are jumping on this crazy little "Anit Micro$oft" band wagon and trying to capitalize off of it. They have the money to spend on a venture like this, but why? You know they know it is going to fail. The reason then? Stupidity. Pure and utter stupidity. Linux is good, I like Linux. Wal-Fart does not know how to market linux. And attempting to sell it to Cletis the slack jawed yokle and his hill billy pals is like trying to sell a BMW to Jed Clampet. He has no clue what to do with all the cool little gadgets.

Support?

[Fencepost]

I doubt that they're getting the software for free - Walmart.com probably has some sort of agreement with Mandrake to provide one or two support calls for these systems, which is one of the things you get with the boxed sets as well.

BOYCOTT WALMART

[Anonymous Coward]

Walmart is an evil corporate conglomerate that uses is berth and competition-crushing ability to further the conservative political and social agenda of its owners. Want birth control? Sorry, looks like you're going to have to go fifty miles out where one of our competitors hasn't [yet] been swallowed up yet!

http://www.warroom.com/planned_parenthood.htm
h ttp://www.1worldcommunication.org/Walmart.htm

Thrilled as I am to see a taker for Linux, it sounds like Walmart's just taking the ultra-cheap way AGAIN, and although this isn't hurting people [this time], every time they've done it before it involves taking advantage of some sorry bastards.

Re:BOYCOTT WALMART

[Anonymous Coward]

I bought a 36 Pack of Lifestyles just yesterday.....

Could have problems

[Meshach]

The reason that most big companies do not want to ship linux is they do not want to have to support joe computer user trying to use it. I wonder if Wal-Mart will have problems trying to support and help their customers use a product like linux (although Mandrake uses kde which is pretty user friendly)
Their "satisfaction garunteed" policy could run them into trouble

I'm so confused (html entities)

[Anonymous Coward]

OK.. dammit.. what html entity did you use for the musical notes?

I keep seeing people using html entities-- for example, the "hollow" versions of the four playing card suites-- that exist, but aren't on the W3C list of "standard" html entities. Where can i get a COMPLETE list of html entities, or at least a list of differences between Standard and Widely Supported, and an explanation as to why the two are different?

Re:MANDRAKE IS THE BEST BECAUSE FRENCH ARE THE BES

[Anonymous Coward]

But they sure isn't the best football players anymore.

sure they are not anymore, but i dont remember of any US soccer team capable of playing decent game....

and this is not chauvinism, i'm not french i'm corsican (but this is another story... ;-) )

Re:♫ First musical request post! ♪

[Gildenstern]

What a way to ruin a really good song.
Tupac should learn to write his own music

Wal-Mart, Microsoft, and the Global Economy

[Badgerman]

Forgive me if this diverges a bit here and there.

Wal-Mart is offering cheap machines for basic users with a reliable OS. It's a good alternative to windows for many people, and Wal-Mart makes a nice bit of money.

In this economy (worldwide and American), things are a bit tighter, people want more bang for their buck. Wal-Mart is filling that need.

This is interesting news for Microsoft. I have to wonder how much of M$'s sales were due to economic exhuberance and people feeling any computer problem can be solved by throwing money at a big name.

I wonder if the economic downturn in America and the slow global economy are actually Microsoft's greatest enemies? Sure, it's great to blow gods-know-how-much money on some flashy M$ product when everyone wanted a familiar face. It's something quite different when the bottom line looms in people's visions.

this just in ...

[Anonymous Coward]

They decided to change the wording on their web site again. It now says: "computer comes with a free rake"

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This is good news

[ReNeGaDe75]

I have a feeling this will do Linux the justice it deserves. Personally, I use Mandrake 8.2 on a whitebox as my main PC and I am loving it.

Even though I am not a big Walmart fan, I have to say they are making a very smart move. So now when people say "Linux? No way, I've heard that's so hard to use only geeks can understand it" I can say "Walmart's PC's come with it preloaded and the computers are made for joe average.".

Perhaps after Walmart has made some money off this deal, they can pay MandrakeSoft to handle their tech support on the software front, which would help MandrakeSoft tremendously with their current financial state.

It's nice to see that with their wisdom, they were able to work out an arrangement that was mutually beneficial, and enabled them to avoid any unpleasant confrontation. *cough* microsoft

Re:wow (Godzilla vs. Mothra)

[Anonymous Coward]

Mothra is good! Don't you remember the phrase "Mothra is friend to all children"? Sheesh.

Re:MANDRAKE IS THE BEST BECAUSE FRENCH ARE THE BES

[Anonymous Coward]

Vous êtes un déshonneur aux personnes partout qui parlent la français, vous bâtard raciste.

Re:this frightens me.(But don't let that stop you)

[Lord_Slepnir]

Let's divide the people who get walmart computers into two groups

a) Rednecks - Don't know how to use FTP or telnet. For them, the default install is pleanty strong.

b) Geek hoping to score a cheap linux computer - Not a problem since they'll know how to open up FTP or telnet ports and such without leaving a wide gaping nutsack for attackers to kick.

Old, Tired Jokes not Funny. Film at 11.

[festers]

Jeeze, how many times must this lame cliche be posted?

In the shopping center.....

[Anonymous Coward]

Dum-di-dum... 2 gallon milk, a Linux server, butter, jam, 2 Lindows PC's....

Re:Linux Mandrake Review

[Theom]

ROTF and LO2L

A QUI TU FERAS CROIRE QUE TU ES FRANCAIS, DUCON ?

[poltron]

Joyeux peuple americain, ne te laisses pas abuser par ce genre de provocation. Nombreux sont nos ennemis de par le monde qui savent employer la ruse la plus vile. Ils ne peuvent que frapper dans l'ombre car ils sont impuissants. Contre eux, une seule logique: UNITE!

Disturbance in the force

[failrate]

Of course Wal-Mart is doing this to save money. I've never paid for a copy of Windows in my life. Hell, I thought it was free when I was a kid. So, knock of the MS-tax and lower the overhead. But, what I'd really like to discuss is a few disturbing items. A)I've been to walmart.com, and while I found listings for (very reasonably priced) Microtel PCs running Lindows, they don't yet list Mandrake, or at least I couldn't find it. B)I went to microtel.com, and couldn't find any of their PCs for direct sale. Does anyone know any other outlet to buy OS-less Microtels? Is the only source for these cheap boxes the jack-booted, red-necked repository for right-wing christian bargains? Would I have to support a corporation so thoroughly creepy just to save money? C)Have you ever seen Wal-Mart employee rallies. At certain stores, they chant and sing at regular intervals. This has nothing to do with Linux, but it's somewhere between hilarious and testicle-shrinking horror. D)Still, no word as to whether Microtel is the next Acer. Acer, a company that provided insanely cheap computers with tons of software that ran like pre-recall Ford Pintos and were completely UN-upgradable. Many were sold to bored, horny housewives who wanted to do nothing but surf the internet on their AOL accounts. What I'm saying is, the smart buyer will still wait to see what the Microtel bargain PCs performance will be like before committing. Ppppppbbbbbblllltttt!

MANDRAKE IS THE ANTI-LINUX!

[Anonymous Coward]

MANDRAKE IS THE ANTI-LINUX!

God damn, it's so horribly put together. Nothing works properly! Their weak attempts to pentium-optimize only manages to break half the apps. It's the only distro I've ever seen that has app crashes as frequent as windows!

Half the distro is always broken right out of the box on every release. Easy install and fruity desktop be damned, you may as well just use windows.

The package maintainers don't know the meaning of the word "test". Their complete incompetence produces a solid stream of shit for updates, to boot.

Mandrake needs to go bankrupt for the good of all other distros. Microsoft would love these guys for all the free bad PR they produce.

Re:MANDRAKE IS THE ANTI-LINUX!

[xtremex]

Actually, I've been using Mandrake as my primary distro for years, ever since 5.1 or so...I prefer it. Although I swtiched to Suse last month. And my other box has NetBSD which I love.The only thing I didnt like about Mandrake was that it wasnt debian! apt-get is what Linux should be.

Re:MANDRAKE IS THE ANTI-LINUX!

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps you need to check your hardware there buddy. Sounds like your system is not up to par
I've been running Mandrake for years, and have no intention of switching to anything else. It's very solid, very stable, easy to install and most importantly, easy to train linux newbies on.
It simply doesn't crash. Updates are as easy as anything I've seen, a simple click-and-download deal.
As far as the ]pentium optimization[ goes, I'm running an Athlon and it runs fabulously. Oh, and I've yet to experience anything ]broken out of the box[, ever. Actually, that's not true, my ATI RADEON refused to work with my 7.2 version unless I manually installed the driver from a third-party website. But that's the fault of ATI more than anything for not making any drivers (not to mention that the distro was older than the damn card).

IMHO Mandrake is probably the newbie-friendliest linux distro out there (SuSE a close second).
Some may prefer tinkering with everything, but that's what you have Slackware and Red Hat for.
Those of us who need to be able to use the damn thing as quickly as possible after you put the installation CD in the drive use Mandrake or SuSE.

Methinks you may be trying to run this on a bad box. Either that or you just don't know what you're doing.

"Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong..." -Dennis Miller.

Re:MANDRAKE IS THE ANTI-LINUX!

[Keith_Beef]

choose one of the following, and write it out a hundred times:

• I'm a troll, a slimy fat troll;
• I don't know how to build a computer, but I know how to bitch when I can't run Linux on it;
• I'm just too stupid to be playing with any flavour of Linux.

I've been using Linux since 2.0.36 (RedHat, perhaps 4.2), and for the past three years or so Mandrake flavour, on a variety of Intel-based machines.

First of all on a home built 486/50MHz with 80MB disc and 8MB Ram, then Pentium 120MHz with 2.5GB disc and 64MB Ram (the small machine became a printer server for a while)

Currently I have a BP6 with 2 × 400MHz Celerons (overclocked to 550MHz) with 384MB Ram and about 20GB on three discs.

Straight out of the box, Mandrake 7.0 worked great. Mandrake 7.1 was admittedly a little flaky as an upgrade, but a full install worked much better. Release 8.0 was good, 8.1 even better and after a couple of months with 8.2 at home, I installed it yesterday at work on the server I look after.

Apps downloaded and compiled work fine (Ogle DVD player, lm_sensors, a few others) so it looks like the compilers, libraries and other development bits and pieces are all there. If lm_sensors (very low-level stuff on the I2c bus / SMBus) works on the BP6 (described by the manufacturer as an "experimental" board) without causing stability problems, then I call this a sturdy set-up.

Re:A QUI TU FERAS CROIRE QUE TU ES FRANCAIS, DUCON

[Anonymous Coward]

Peut-être il est français, mais il est juste une voix mécontente hors de beaucoup.

Promote Linux = Benefits to us all

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux OS package will help lower the cost of a general purpose PC and benefit for all, both the end user and box maker.

It also discourage software piracy since most linux softwares are either freeware or lower cost commercial package. Unlike it counter part, all of it softwares are major ripe off that not everybody could afford to get one. Only benefitors are Bill and his fellow gangs.

Linux also a much stable OS although it still need lots of improvement to catching up what windows had evolved. At least for as little as 100$ or less, you could have word processor, spreadsheet, database, graphic, etc contain in the package compare to Microsoft windows, just the stand alone OS could cost 3X's. No wonder 90% of the windows users are one way or the other use pirated software once in his lifetime as long as he/she stick to the OS.

that is what needs to change

[Lewis Mettler, Esq.]

It is extremely harmful for Microsoft to penalize OEMs for not selling Microsoft Products.

1. What Hpaq or Dell pays is the wholesale cost.

The wholesale cost has little or nothing to do what they gig you for it.

YOU pay the retail price. And, Microsoft's suggested retail price for XP is $200.

If you want to suggest HP charges something else you will have to get them to say so.

2. Agreements that only the monopolist can sign are inherently unfair and preclude competition.

Does Redhat get paid regardless of whether Redhat sells?

Does Redhat charge more if the OEMs sells a competitive product instead?

If not, then Microsoft should be restricted from such agreements as well.

The jerkheads currently violating federal law priviledges that others do not have is a primary problem and will have to be solved before fair and open competition can possibly exist.

There is no doubt that Microsoft uses illegal means to preclude competition. And, the agreements are only part of that process.

Gates is an idiot.

[Lewis Mettler, Esq.]

Gates is an idiot for concluding that everyone is as dumb as he takes them for.

And, as long as he is willing to violate the law to maintain his monopoly and screw consumers, he will continue doing precisely that.

And, since he obviously thinks he can turn the screws tighter on consumers, he raised the prices and tightened the license conditions.

That is a give away that he thinks his customers are idiots too.

And, if you buy Microsoft products, you do quality to some extent. Unless you had no choice. And, for some that is the case.

Having a large selection of software permits Microsoft to screw you. And, they know it. And, that is why they do so.

Re:Gates is an idiot.

[Anonymous Coward]

And, this post contains more fragmented sentences than you can shake a Grammar Nazi at.

And, if you don't like it, you can blow me.

That is if you think this isn't funny, too.

And you should, because it IS funny. At least to me.

engaging in illegal acts proves idiocy

[Lewis Mettler, Esq.]

Anyone knows the power of a monopolist.

Acting immoral or in violation of the law does not disprove idiocy at all.

Maintaining a monopoly is easy is you just lie and ignore the laws.

Re:engaging in illegal acts proves idiocy

[Anonymous Coward]

Acting immoral or in violation of the law does not disprove idiocy at all.

Building a company from nothing to $40B, irrespective of your opinions of his ethical values, disproves idiocy.

Re:engaging in illegal acts proves idiocy

[Lewis Mettler, Esq.]

Absolutely nothing disproves idiocy.

If you do stupid things then you are one.

Keep in mind that almost all common frauds and con-men are very intelligent. That does not prove they are not idiots for concluding that defrauding others is smart business.

Insulting a federal judge as Microsoft did yesterday shows just how stupid they really are.

If you want to think highly of criminals and others who think that defrauding others proves their worth, go ahead.

But, Gates is a proven idiot.

Re:engaging in illegal acts proves idiocy

[Lewis Mettler, Esq.]

By the way, it does not take much intelligence to know that illegally bundling a browser with your monopoly product will screw hundreds of millions and gain yourself another monopoly product.

But, it does take an idiot to think that others will actually believe the new monopoly was achieved legally or because of superior technology.

Gates is an idiot. And, he is an idiot because either he has failed to take his lawyers advice and stay clear of violating the antitrust laws or he failed to hire honest lawyers.

Gates is also an idiot for insulting the intelligence of the federal judges.

If you continue to claim that organized criminals are not idiots because they are successful in their criminal endevors, that is fine with me.

Being successful in getting money from others does not prove you are not an idiot.

You can work for organized crime if you want to. That is up to you.

Just do not be so stupid as to suggest to others that they should adopt your corrupt morals or give credit to your crime boss.

It will never happen.

Re:engaging in illegal acts proves idiocy

[Anonymous Coward]

Absolutely nothing disproves idiocy.

I see the problem, we have different definitions of the word idiot. I am using what I consider the common english definition of the term referring to a person of diminished intellectual capacity. Whatever you think of his moral and ethical values, Bill Gates is not an idiot by that definition.

You are apparently using the common Slashdot definition of the term; i.e., someone I don't like or disagree with is an idiot. I concede, by that definition you are correct, Bill Gates is an idiot.

Insulting a federal judge as Microsoft did yesterday shows just how stupid they really are.

Ok, that was a seriously stupid thing to do. But you know lawyers, anything to get more billable hours. ;-)

Re:engaging in illegal acts proves idiocy

[Lewis Mettler, Esq.]

Yes. But, they were going to bill those hours even without saying stupid things.

Lawyers can say intelligent things and still charge, right?

The stupidity comes in when you tell the judge one day that your client will do everything in their power to comply with an order of the court and then the next ignore that same judge by refusing to answer a very appropriate question.

My dictionary says an idiot has the IQ of 25, about that of a two year old. Clearly that definition does not apply to anyone who can log on.

But, it also defines an idiot as "a foolish or stupid person".

And, many people who claim to have large amounts of money still qualify under that definition. Enron and Anderson are two other companies that have recently demonstrated their idiocy.

Making money illegally is just fine until you get caught. Then it depends. But, being very successful at making money by violating the law never qualifies anyone in my book to be anything but an idiot.

And, why is that?

The reason is that non-idiots do not need to rely upon illegal acts to earn money. They do it the legal way.

But, idiots just force the sale of products, collect the money and then lie to the judge. Just like the Microsoft lawyers did yesterday. And, just like the Microsoft lawyers have consistently done in this case.

You may not remember. But, back when the DOJ first finished up their part of the case during the liability portion, Microsoft lawyers actually got on the steps outside the courtroom and flat ass lied. They said that no admissible evidence has been brought forth by the DOJ. Sounds just like the lie they told the judge yesterday, not?

But, the lie has changed from "we do not have a monopoly" to "we do not want a monopoly". Both are lies. Microsoft's money rests upon having the monopoly and illegally maintaining it.

They are idiots for thinking anyone would respect them.

And, just about everyone who does go along with them qualifies as well.

Gates has money. So does organized crime. But, that does not cause me to buy illegal drugs off the street.

So if anyone wants to say Gates is not an idiot, look at all his money. That is fine.

But, lots of criminals have lots of money too.

I no more respect Gates than a common criminal. They both use the same morals, the same values and even lawyers. But, lawyers do not determine the morals of their clients unless they insist upon it.

Re:engaging in illegal acts proves idiocy

[Anonymous Coward]

You take this much, much too seriously.

Re:engaging in illegal acts proves idiocy

[Lewis Mettler, Esq.]

I happen to have expertise in technology, economics and tbe law.

So, yes, I fully understand the harm caused to consumers and the industry.

And, I fully understand the economic conditions that can be used by monopolists to control the marketplace.

And, I understand all of the legal arguments made my Microsoft in order to maintain their power.

And, I understand how idiotic Microsoft looks when they lie about the basic technology issues.

So, is it serious?

Yes. They are serious idiots.

They lie about the technology, the economics and the law in order to maintain their monopoly. What the witnesses say in court is only restricted by possible charges of perjury. And, there have been some instances where that should be the result. What the lawyers say is priviledged. They are only restricted to what they think they can get away with. And, upon more than one occasion Microsoft lawyers have most likely insulted the federal bench.

But, in either case idiocy is not protected. Rather it is proven by what they do.

You can excuse that conduct if you want. But, since you have no name I doubt that even you do so. At least you will not admit it. Sometimes the "coward" label fits.

Re:engaging in illegal acts proves idiocy

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, you need a better sense of proportion.

Microsoft suicide bombers aren't killing people in the middle-east. Microsoft isn't causing droughts and famine in Africa. Microsoft isn't imprisoning political protesters in China.

This is just a sordid legal squabble between a convicted monopoly and the federal government, not the end of the world.

As to why I'm posting anonymously, frankly, you scare me and I have doubts about your mental stability.

Re:engaging in illegal acts proves idiocy

[Lewis Mettler, Esq.]

Actually, nothing you have said can be taken as credible.

And, that includes the reason you refuse to use your own name.

Most likely you do not even beleive your own words. And, that is why you refuse to let anyone know your identity.

Being a whistle blower is one thing.

Insulting others in the name of Microsoft reflects poorly upon them and their morals. And, when you use a fake name, your post does reflect upon Microsoft.

Idiots prove themselves by what they do.

Re:engaging in illegal acts proves idiocy

[Anonymous Coward]

Idiots prove themselves by what they do.

Well said.

Maybe not GREAT for Linux

[kitzilla]

I'll start by saying I'll surely buy at least two Wal-Mart Microtel bozes. I'm delighted to see Linux-compatible hardware at fire-sale prices, and having Mandrake pre-installed will be a convenience.

I'm not sure the Lindows option is good for Linux, even if it offers a Linux distro to the masses. Claiming, as they did until yesterday, that Lindows runs "most" MS apps is going to lead to disappointment the first time Soccer Mom tries to load some cheap-ass Windows software for her kids. It may not run--and when it doesn't, will she blame MS or even Wal-Mart? No, she'll blame Linux. She'll tell everyone Linux doesn't work, and never come back to the platform.

Better, I think, to sell Linux as Linux. Put a friendly desktop on it, don't represent that it may or may not run MS, bundle great free software, and sell it price-point against MS.

I hope Wally Mart has the smarts to sell some shrink-wrapped Linux software. My local Sam's used to do so. I suppose it will all come down to whether or not we actually see Linux boxes on retail shelves.

For what it's worth, our local Sam's has someone dedicated to computer sales. He's reasonably well informed, and would be quite capable of assisting customers in navigating the choice which suddenly confronts them. I don't know if they have computer sellers at Wal-Mart.

wow that sounds like a great idea. but...

[Anonymous Coward]

I've got a better one. How about they sell some pre-loaded with a Gentoo and Slackware dual-boot system. Now I would RUN to walmart to buy one of those.

Re:A QUI TU FERAS CROIRE QUE TU ES FRANCAIS, DUCON

[Anonymous Coward]

Je ne sais pas ce que vous dites. Lave-vaisselle pourpre de singe.

Now goe awa',

[DoctorFrog]

you animale food-trough whoppere! Or I shell taunt you a secont tam!!!

Re:Now goe awa',

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't wanna talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper! I fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!

Mail this story to various News services

[theolein]

That will make some people sit back and take a second glance.

I wonder how MS will try to counter this? This is what MS did to Netscape and somehow it's fun to watch someone else do it to them.

Go to hell, LAME

[Anonymous Coward]

Good to see that you have decided to drop the ridiculous Esq from your tagline. Say, why don't you go back to calling yourself an "Attorney and Software Developer" like you used to? That should be good for a few yuks here.

You were wrong on MSNBC, you were wrong on ZDNet, you were wrong on PCWeek, any you are wrong here. Your "bubblegum" and other assorted lame analogies have never convinced even one person of either your sanity or your grasp of the law. I would suggest that it is you who are the idiot, since you seem unable to learn your lesson despite being banned from a variety of anti-MS sites for your isane rantings.

Why don't you go back to that booming law practice of yours (did you ever get a yellow page listing or get your name registered with the bar out there in CA?) and leave the online world in peace.

Oh, and go fuck yourself and get stuffed.

Re:Go to hell, LAME

[Lewis Mettler, Esq.]

And let organized crime harm consumers and the industry.

No way.

Those idiots insulted the federal judge today.

Good for public education

[Alien Being]

Walmart's Windows-less PCs should help end the common misconception that Windows "comes free with the machine".

Mandrake is a good thing

[steveha]

Mandrake really is a good user experience. Before I settled with Debian, I used Mandrake for a while, and it was slick and polished.

This will be great for the consumers who just surf the web and do email; get everything pre-installed and it will just work.

I hope they do a good job of making it easy to set up your ISP, but upon reflection it's probably no big deal. I remember the days when it was tricky to configure net dialup, but these days most ISPs just have a pretty standard PPP setup and all the user really needs to do is enter a phone number in a setup dialog.

steveha

Preloaded Mandrake

[iceaxe]

I just ordered a new box at my local computer shop (Laboratory Computers) with preloaded Mandrake.
Schweet deal, too. Very nice set-up, and they sell it with no OS, or choose your OS and they'll load it for you. Mandrake costs $0.

Much better computer than the WalMart jobbie, and not much more $$. And it comes with support.

Check 'em out

iceaxe

Re:MANDRAKE IS THE BEST BECAUSE FRENCH ARE THE BES

[blibbleblobble]

"if the French are so darned smart, explain the Maginot line please?"

If the USians are so smart, explain the missile sheild please?

And the roquefort ban???

Re:Good luck. I couldn't do it on my Compaq.

[Anonymous Coward]

That is because Compaq's are fucking junk ass pieces of shit. Serves you right for buying it.

hehehehehe, could not pass on this one ;)

This is less Walmart's doing and more Microtel's.

[pjt48108]

After reading a lot of off-the-cuff rants, I thought I would cruise over to Microtel's site (www.buymicrotel.com) to find the info I desired: why are they doing this?

Well, this is the first I read any news at all about Microtel. For those of you who need or want to know, they are a shop whose mission is: "To be the leader in delivering fully-integrated infrastructure solutions, professional services, and support through cutting-edge customization capabilities."

Other corporation info says that they are in the customization business, and they use Linux (Mandrake 8.1, it says elsewhere on the site). Their list of customization 'levels' includes "optimization of the Linux kernel"

Looks to me like Walmart just agreed to sell something they weren't already selling, and making money is ok with them, regardless of who/where it comes from. I hope these bits of info help others to get a wider perspective on the Walmart/Microtel phenomenon.

Yes it can

[Sloppy]

I wouldn't be too sure about unlicensed DVD players being illegal. Kaplan's decision was in regard to one particular program: DeCSS, which didn't play movies. This warped Kaplan's decisoin about what it was "primarily designed" (important words within the context of DMCA) to do. He incorrectly concluded that it was primarily designed to circumvent copyright (this making him particularly hostile to it), but was technically right that it was primarily designed to bypass the technological measure. And being primarily designed to bypass the technological measure, was what made DeCSS so vulnerable to DMCA.

A program that actually plays DVDs (even if it contains an unlicensed DeCSS implementation), though, would be another matter. You can't look at the .01% (pulling number out of ass, but you get the idea) of the code in a player that descrambles CSS, and make a good argument that bypassing the technological measure, is its primary purpose.

An unlicensed DVD player would be far less likely to be judged as "illegal." And face it, it would never go to court anyway. 2600 was picked on because MPAA knew 2600 would have trouble defending itself. Nobody thinks that about Walmart.

Walmart has money on their side, and probably the law too. That makes it legal. Go for it, Walmart.

When I was a child...

[SlashdotTroll]

...when I was a mere child-process of a mere 32 years old, I went to Wal-Mart and purchased Duke Nukem 3D: Atomic Edition. I purchased Duke Nukem 3D: Atomic Edition because I was verry entertained and satisfied with the Single-episode Demo Version released by 3DRealms. I whole-heartedly understand the ideals of many people to protect the un-scathed and warry eyes of children from disgusting ideas and images, and I would like to point-out that the publishers of Duke Nukem 3D, 3DRealms Inc, understood this issue far before even Wal-Mart graduated from PMS school.

3DRealms provided a "feature" to remove all occurences of nudity and bad language within "Duke Nukem 3D: Atomic Edition" by use of a "adult-mode password." I think this is a great idea to give the CONSUMER the option of removing certain content of a software package... I think this should not be Wal-Mart's decision to make because Wal-Mart and its staff are NOT CONSUMERS as they sell a product in their stores to CUSTOMERS.

As I described earlier, I purchased "Duke Nukem 3D: Atomic Edition", aka "Exhibit A", from Wal-Mart. Upon installing "Exhibit A", I noticed the lack of profane language and nudity within the game and the lack there-of caused the game's capacity to be lacking in comparison with the "Demo version" that I enjoyed and relished for its many entertaning dialogues and content. I tried to enable "adult-mode" and discovered I was unable and the game was indeed "modified" to prevent me, a mere child of 32, to experience the full capacity of "Exhibit A." After investigating this difficulty, I contacted a technical support representative of 3DRealms and the issue was apparant. "Exhibit A", purchased in Wal-Mart, was a "modified version under compliance with Wal-Mart standards."

Wal-Mart sells condomns, diaphragms, lube, latex gloves, and skimpy underwear, but does not allow me to see titties and hear ASS on my Duke Nukem 3D: Atomic Edition! I promptly re-packaged "Exhibit A" for product return under the reasoning of "defective" and was denied refund and also was denied exchange. I understand Wal-Mart has standards on what products it sells. I also understand that Wal-Mart reserves its position as my master and I am the slave, a mere child of 32, a utility of the United States Corporation, an ignorant and well-educated consumer.

Wal-Mart has not seen the last of me. I will continue under-selling candy-bars, soda-pop, and llama feces outside their doors! This means war!

osdfjkdsjklsdjfklsd

[rice_burners_suck]

I think if Wal Mart wants to save money and offer low prices, they should ship x86 PCs with a bootlegged copy of the operating system from Sputnik. There won't be a bootloader, because that would increase the cost, so users would have to separately purchase a book describing how to manually boot the operating system. Of course, it'll be guarenteed to run any application made for DOS, Windows, Amiga, any UNIX, Linux, BeOS, old Atari games, Nintendo cartridges, and it'll play VHS too.

Greedy Bastards

[Anonymous Coward]

They shouldn't be using Mandrake. They should be using Red Flag linux. I mean why not? everything else in the damn store comes from china.

Re:MANDRAKE IS THE BEST BECAUSE FRENCH ARE THE BES

[Hieronymus Howard]

The French are best. I don't think so. Senegal recently proved pretty conclusively that they're better. Pity that there isn't a Senegalese Linux distribution.

Number of goals scored by France (the previous world champions) in the 2002 World Cup - 0.

HH

Actually no...

[sheldon]

But why would Wal-Mart do that? And don't give me that goodwill nonsense.

They aren't legally required under the GPL, and again that is $5-10 per computer that they could save for their bottom line.

Everyone is missing one thing

[cristofer8]

Wall-Mart is NOT censoring anything. They are simply saying "we won't sell your product unless you change this." That is perfectly legal, every company has the right to decide with whom they do business, based on whatever they want to (excluding race, gender, etc).

However, the fact that Wall-Mart is big enough to influence what others are selling, and to influence what the magazine's are printing seems illegal to me. I don't know enough about anti-trust laws, but it doesn't seem like Wall-Mart should be able to tell other companies what to do. To me, this seems like an improper use of Wall-Mart's huge market share.

So perhaps we now have a new 800-pound gorilla to contend with.

Re:Everyone is missing one thing

[nathanm]

However, the fact that Wall-Mart is big enough to influence what others are selling, and to influence what the magazine's are printing seems illegal to me.

There's nothing illegal or unethical about it. They don't influence what others are selling, only what is sold in their own stores.

I don't know enough about anti-trust laws, but it doesn't seem like Wall-Mart should be able to tell other companies what to do. To me, this seems like an improper use of Wall-Mart's huge market share.

They're not telling other corporations what to do. They're merely enforcing policies about what is sold in their own stores. If they want their products sold in WalMart, they'll simply have to abide by WalMart's policies.

Like I said in a previous post, I don't know how accurate 15% is. But by any stretch of imagination, that's not a huge market share. Microsoft has a huge market share, in both the desktop OS and office suite arenas. WalMart may be the biggest retailer, but they are far from even a majority market share, even further from being a monopoly.

Re:MANDRAKE IS THE BEST BECAUSE FRENCH ARE THE BES

[The Wing Lover]

Vous êtes un déshonneur aux personnes partout qui parlent la français

Apparently you are not one of these people. Otherwise you would know that français as a noun is masculine.

Re:MANDRAKE IS THE BEST BECAUSE FRENCH ARE THE BES

[eiggen]

NOUS SOMMES LES MEILLEURS, NOUS SOMMES LES CHAMPIONS, ON VA BOTTER LE CUL DES AMERICAINS ! And what about the FIFA World Cup? YOU lost! Go back to your "poésie" and "théatre"... you are only good at that!

Bundling is evil

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh wait, no it's not. Only if Microsoft does it.

Re:MANDRAKE IS THE BEST BECAUSE FRENCH ARE THE BES

[marhar]

For the Americans in the audience, courtesy of the fish...

we are the best, we are the champions, one goes botter the bottom of the americains

(ps, the lameness filter doesn't like the CAPS)

walmart?

[Anonymous Coward]

who the hell buys his or her computer from walmart.com?

Grounded plug?

[zinzarin]

Aww - that's no problem, you just cut of that big thick prong and the grounded plug works anywhere. Geez, I'd think a bunch of hackers would know that...

Re:MANDRAKE IS THE BEST BECAUSE FRENCH ARE THE BES

[Anonymous Coward]

uhh mandrake is english

Mandrake?

[ironfroggy]

Great choice... I'm running it now, my first try of the distribution after loosing all CDs of other distros and not being on a high enough bandwidth to download anything else. Red Hat is just too expensive.

I've already begun hating them. The "support" you pay for is pathetic. I had some problems getting OpenGL working with my GeForce2 MX 200 and still haven't resolved it. I entered the incident at Mandrake and they tell me opposite information that I should do, when I now find I should make sure those lines are NOT in the x config file.

Most things run OK, aside from RPM saying that I have NO packages installed. Makes removing/upgrading packages a blast! So, now I'm off to LFS to custom compile my entire system myself. No Gentoo or Sorceror, I'm just doing it all myself. I'm sick of distros. Obviously, not a good choice for per-packages with a computer, just saying: Mandrake sucks.

Walmart deserves boycott

[Jeppe Salvesen]

If you look aside from the obvious reasons to boycott Walmart, low wages, goods manufactured in sweat shops, etc, etc, you will still find other good reasons to boycott Walmart.

Walmart censors records. In their high moral stance, they sell records which bleep out the bad words. I dunno if they're gonna blur out Kirsten Dunst's nipples when they sell the Spider-man DVD, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Preloading Mandrake is just a cheap ploy for us to look the other way on their crappy moralism.

Walmart underware...

[ndege]

Walmart: The only place where you can buy underware, motoroil, and a unix box at the same time. Ahh...the microsoft of the shopping world.

Re:MANDRAKE IS THE BEST BECAUSE FRENCH ARE THE BES

[Anonymous Coward]

uhh mandrake is english

doh... you could at least check the website before posting such rubbish. Mandrake is a French run and backed company. Not that it matters.

David

Some guys can never be happy...

[chief-dot]

When your home team wins, you should be happy to see them win, not bitch about which player scored the winning goal.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Don't worry, be happy

[ganiman]

I'm not saying what Walmart is selling is any good, but why can't people just be happy that the Linux market is expanding?

Re:Good luck. I couldn't do it on my Compaq.

[failrate]

It's true, my old lady's Presario runs so hot that she uses it as a portable heater when she's waiting for the bus during winter in Chicago.

Last Post

[Anonymous Coward]

LP

(oh yeah, and Mandrake isn't installed on the Wal-Mart computers yet!)