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Palm IIIc, IIIxe Released
homerj79 writes, "Palm Computing announced today the release of their next generation Palm's, the IIIc and IIIxe. The IIIc sports 8MB of RAM, PalmOS 3.5 and a very cool 256-color TFT display. The Palm also has a built in rechargable battery that supposedly lasts for two weeks between charges. The IIIxe is much like the IIIx, but doubles the RAM to 8MB. Both also have a new casing on them, with a dark slate colored case rather than the gray of the past. "
I've heard a few rumors that handspring will follow with a color visor. Anyone know something? Personally, I would bet that handspring will wait for 3Com (actually, Palm is going to be spun off) to test these waters and get past some technological barriers.
B&W is cool with me. It is readable. The power consumption is low by comparison to color TFT. It is relable. The mass is less than the compariable color unit. Keep the AAA battery option open too 3com. Roger
>Um, 8mb doubled to 8MB? Sounds cool tho'. Colour >screen an' all. I may just have to buy one :) I think they mean that the palm IIIx has had its memory doubled to 8mb in the palmIIIxe. The palm IIIc has 8mb ram and is colour. Benno
Everyone pretends like they're thinking "oh darn, now it will run slower and it will have a much larger OS footprint.
I know you're all really thinking:
"Wow, know i can hate microsoft and STILL have that high quality p0rn."
Now this is all good for you rich sysadmins. But for Us poor highschoolers who just want to have a hand held this is trouble. Soon all the porn for palm will be exclusivly in color, and then we'll have to upgrade. Ack.
Have you tried playing tetris on an regular, or pocket gameboy... that's more than difficult... it's nearly impossible... The reflective color lcd used on the color gb is great, compared to other reflective color lcd's... (and it's the same one that is used on the palm IIIc, if I remember correctly...)
the gameboy color *is* using an super-reflective *active-matrix* display, and the IIIc is using the same display I remember reading somewhere...
they seem to lead to a page not found error.
If I remember correctly from when the VII was released, they compared their numbering to different series of cars. The numbers not being directly related to the most recently released machine.
If this is the start of a proliferation of PalmOS devices of all shapes and sizes, then perhaps someday soon I will have a tablet based PalmOS machine to sync with my Palm V and all of the other palms of my friends and family.
Given that the IIIxe was also launched today, I hold out hope for proliferation.
Yeah, EPOC is great os. My 5mx is great. I wonder if the people colouring EPOC for the Series 7 were colourblind though... it looks that way from the screenshots...
...who needs 'palm' porn when you can still get with 17yr olds & not have to worry about jail?? A color palm pilot is little consolation for living in constant fear of prosecution.
Shame that the page seems to imply that the device is only available in the US.
(but any good geek would know how to work around that).
That is why I bought Aero 1520. It is thiner then Palm III, has a larger screen (hi-res) and 16MB or RAM. Palm needs to make a PDA with a hi-rez screen.
I've been waiting for that Stowaway keyboard to be released for aaaaaaggges now. Joy of joys, I find today it finally is and I get my credit card all warmed up and ready, only to find that it's U.S. shipping only, how surprising...
Yet again we Brits have to wait longer and no doubt when we do get the chance to buy one, we'll get ripped by the 1USD == 1UKP oldie.
Just peachy!
Apart from that, the new devices look like sexy PHB magnets. I still haven't filled the memory of my IIIx and I have all kinds of rubbish on it...
As someone who has both a TRGPro (which uses the IIIx screen) and IIIc (picked up the last one from my local Franklin Covey store this morning) I can tell you that the screens are IDENTICAL in size. The one thing not mentioned about the photos above is that the IIIc is actually 7mm longer than a III/IIIx/IIIe, yet the pictures show them as the same length. This resizing of the IIIc accounts for the different screen sizes in the two pictures. BTW I'm MOST impressed that Palm were able to fit all of the extra hardware required for a color screen into the device without affecting the thickness or width AT ALL and only increasing the length by 7mm (1/4 in).
The total life for Li-Ion battery packs is around 500 discharge cycles or with the stated 14 hour battery life if the IIIc (2 weeks assuming 1 hour use a day) 20 years. (:
However if you recharge the battery before it hits about 50% charge, it doesn't lose one of it's discharge cycles. This means that if you keep your battery topped up (i.e. leaving it in the cradle at your desk) then it will last more or less forever.
I've only had my IIIc for one day but even with all of the hoysyncing, organizing and testing (not to mention all of the showing off to workmates) the battery gauge has barely moved (4 hours+ uptime and more than 75% battery charge remaining) so it looks like the stated battery life is accurate.
Additionally, the IIIc (unlike the V) is easily opened by removing 4 screws and the battery pack looks to be a standard size with a standard connector (it looks very similar to the Li-Ion battery in my cordless phone) so if it ever has to be replaced, I don't think there will be any problem getting a new one.
Finally, on the point about being away from your cradle and with a flat battery, there is already an emergency charger for the Palm V that lets you recharge it from a 9v battery. I'm sure that someone will come out with a similar product for the IIIc.
That "quote" by Bill Gates about "640kb of ram is enough for everybody" is an urban legend dammit.
Learn to read. They never said "two weeks of constant run time". They said "Rechargeable lithium-ion battery supplies over 2 weeks of normal usage, and recharges in just minutes."
You should only go by the specs listed at palm.com and not the mailorder place.
Second, had you gone to a good school then you would have learned to read and tell the difference between IIIx, IIIc and IIIe.
Third point, if the school which you had attended had been good, then you would realise that 4MB x 2 = 8MB, not 16MB
Learn to read before you flame, next time, eh tal?
Yeah, but otoh you have to put up with that bloated, slow pile of sh!te that is WinCE, thereby eliminating any advantage you may have had with more RAM et al (I know, because several people here bough WinCE machines - they now ALL admit they woudl be better off with a proper OS, such as PalmOS, instead of crippling their stuff with WinCE).
Perhaps your browser renders this page where the quoted text came from differently? Give it a try!
A score of 1 is overrated!? I'm offended.
I agree.. just to use rechargeable AAAs would be better, I bet...
That's not really true, 256 colours is more than enough to display any photographic image provided those 256 colours are well chosen. You only need to ramp up to true colour systems if you want to display lots of high colour icons, windows and pictures all on the same screen. It might be so with a pad, but a palm? They'd look like Windows icons anyway, what would you gain?
I bought into that flash ROM in the Palm IIIx means that I will be able to take advantage of future upgrades. This continues to be one of Palm Computing's major selling points over the static ROMs that the Visor comes with. On the Palm IIIxe page they repeat the flash ROM selling point and then continue on to talk about PalmOS v3.5 usability enhancements. Well, if flash ROMs make upgrading such a snap, how do I snap the usability enhancements into the IIIx? The answer seems to be that I presently can't. I'm sick of this selling point that means nothing for months. When the next generation Palms come out with PalmOS v4 or whatever, how long will it be before the IIIxe flash upgrade is available? At what point does it stop being a "snap" to upgrade and becomes real work to monitor the Palm Computing web site to see if they have bothered to get around to providing the "snap" in a very unsnappy fashion?
The answer is in your exact quote.
IIIc sports 8M
IIIxe is like the IIIx but doubles the RAM to 8M
Now, Tal, let me give you a clue. IIIc is NOT the same as IIIx
NOW do you think you can do the maths, hmmm?
Hardly flamebait... Just pointing out the alternatives. The EPOC OS *is* superior to PalmOS, and at some point in the future, the symbian consortium will migrate the PalmOS User Interface (Let's face it, the only good thing in PalmOS) to run on top of the EPOC kernel instead of the PalmOS kernel - EPOC permits you to replace the default EIKON with something lighter weight. This was on slashdot several weeks ago.
Also, I type much faster than I write. For this reason, I prefer the Psion's full keyboard. And the Psion, IMHO, has the best keyboard of any palmtop.
I got a Palm Vx and I want PalmOS 3.5. Gimme ... Gimme
Although I don't see how they'll fit the code to Blue screen into only 8mb. [Rimshot]
I feel your pain, brother. I just ordered a IIIx yesterday, and it's already been shipped. For $20 more, I could have gotten the IIIxe with 8mb instead of 4... sigh. Ah well, at least I only paid $189, instead of the full list $229...
MP3s would have been nice, and I wish the volume could be controlled for each app, so that I could read Huck Finn in silence. It's cooler than I expected.
Now if someone would write a cool tutorial for programming the stupid thing... I played with the newton message pad, which would have kicked serious ass if *&%$ apple had simply picked something like a simple basic or C compiler for development work!
Hmm...EPOC32 is much nicer than wince - particularly on a Psion series 7 or NetBook. admittedly, these are more like small laptops than PDAs, but they're really cool.
Anybody else notice a similarity between palm's naming scheme and somebody else's?
I don't know where you went to school, but they
must have their own way of doing math. Last time
I checked if you double 8mb of ram you get 16mb not 8mb.
Why is Katz posting anonymous?
I can't find a decent excuse to buy one.
What do people here use these things for? Is anyone running a web server on one? And how good is the handwriting recognition? (And what is the point in a full colour version of Backgammon?)
Palm Computing _HAD_ to release color to remain competitive in the market. Regardless of market share (Palm is still #1), and regardless of whether color adds any benefits, they were losing the edge on hype.
Hit deja.com and search around a little. You'll find countless posts from people whining that Palm is "behind the times" because they don't have color, or "I won't buy a Palm until it has color".
The truth of the matter is, you don't _NEED_ color, but the market is demanding color. And color does make life easier...
Sure, we can all smile and say that the reason for Palm's original success was that it was kept simple and quick, but you don't have to exclude color to continue on the path of simplicity.
I think Palm made a strong effort to make a useable Palm IIIc (again speculating). The catch phrase they keep using in their marketing is "color done right", and I think we can expect this to be as high quality as other Palm products.
The higher resolution will probably be next. Remember that increasing resolution will introduce a huge amount of compatibility issue. With several million Palms out there on the market, you can't just change something so significant as screen resolution without wondering what happens to those still using 160x160.
I vote for the company that doesn't rush out to be bleeding edge just for the sake of being bleeding edge. Dare I make the comparison... you wouldn't want Linus Torvald to release 2.4 just for the sake of saying Linux is already at 2.4, would you?
-Al
I recently had the last straw with the Palm's dismal resolution, and other lack of features, despite its high price.
Contrary to popular opinion, there are several points to make:
1.) I don't think Pilots and CE devices compete. Really they're targetted at different audiences. The Pilots are essentially simple personal organizers (the original concept of PDAs), their API is very basic, and developing for the Pilot involves a lot of coding basic pieces yourself.
2.) CE isn't dying, it's growing considerably. A few companies have dropped their CE machines. I think that it may've been a smart move since only a few CE vendors are producing quality products. On the other hand, have you noticed the sharp decline in the amount of commercial/shareware apps for the Palm?
I recently took the plunge and ordered one of the "Palm Pilot killers", a Casio E-105 Pocket PC. 32mb of RAM, 131mhz MIPS processor, 240x320 TFT LCD display which blows the IIIc's display away, and a CF slot. Also it looks like the IIIc has about the same battery life of a E-10x. $590. More money, but a hell of a lot more features.
The E-100 can be had on the net for under $400, which is the same thing with only 16mb of RAM.
Yes, CE apps use more RAM, they're more full-featured. Win CE is stored in ROM, so it doesn't immediately zap up all your RAM.
Although, coding for CE (and Palm) has made me realize that the old MS excuse of poor implementation of architechure, due to "legacy support" is BS. I see some of the same trademark snafus in CE, which was cleanroom written. However, CE is superior to PalmOS, imho, and I've made the jump. So long, Palm...
Fred
I like the:
. htm
"The rechargeable lithium ion battery gives you
over two weeks of constant run time, or 14 days
of normal use."
http://palmorder.modusmedia.com/P3/P3c-3C80600U
Nah, you're wrong. By the time my PDA has 24-bit colour, people will be using a better encoding scheme than mp3.
----------------------------
I know that a port of telnet exists, but do you realize what a pain in the ass it is to use a CLI with a pen-based input system? simple commands lines take FOREVER to write.
Wandering even further off topic...
Was this the Pokemon pinball game? I've played it on a friend's Game Boy, and quite liked it. The Pokemon bit is in sone of the design, and to overall goal (catch all the Pokemons, I think), but it's quite a nice pinball game in its own right, and the Pokemon stuff doesn't detract from that at all. If you like pinball games (I do), see if you know someone who has the game and try it out. You might be surprised.
--Phil (ObTopic: Color's neat and all, but I have a budget and am quite happy with my B/W Palm III.)
355/113 -- Not the famous irrational number PI, but an incredible simulation!
Everything that the Palm isn't? What about OS upgradability? Last I heard, the Visor was stuck at PalmOS 3.1, and could never be upgraded past that (to the new 3.5, for example).
- (c) 2018 Hank Zimmerman
Ah yes, but that would make it gray31 by X11's reckoning, and not DarkSlateGray.
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
Care to educate us on the difference between "dark slate" and "gray"? If you go by X11 named colours, then you can contrast the old and new by doing:
However, the X11 dark slate gray looks a bit on the green side to me, and the plain gray is significantly paler than an old Pilot.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that if someone had described the old palm pilot colour as being dark slate, I wouldn't have thought twice about it.
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
You can't? I know that only one app owns the screen at any one time and that it has to exit when the user switches. However, it can start additional threads (possibly at boot time, when it is initialised). These threads can interact with the user through dialogs. This is how the Fortune program can give me some inane message every day.
The one thing about Handspring that keeps me happy with my Visor Deluxe is the fact that InfoGear is coming out with an MP3 player Springboard Module. Yes, color is nice, but for things that need color to display properly, 160x160 just doesn't cut it. I'll use my 1600x1200x32bpp display on my PC for stuff like that. Just doesn't compare. Now audio, if that Springboard module can play 160kbps 44.1kHz MP3s at a respectable signal-to-noise ratio, I'll be snug as a bug in a rug, baby, yeah!
XenoWolf The Original - Since 1993
Yea.that w/not a flame epoc is a really nice os..(though i wish the dev tools were free -or- cheaper).. my psion 3a just crocked.. and imo it was as good as the palm 3 series.. minus the size of course.. The new Psion Revo is only a tad larger then the palm 3 and his a bright (not backlite) b/w lcd screen.. http://www.psion.com/revo
http://www.pdabuzz.com/Reviews/Psion ~Revo.html
-greg "The sun is not yellow its chicken" -Bob Dylan
Want 24-bit colour with alpha, 3D accelleration, 3D surround sound and enough balls to play MP3s? Get a laptop. This isn't meant to replace them. It's meant to be portable and useful.
Well.. you're partially right. No, PDAs wont replace laptops just yet, but eventually we will have PDAs with 24-bit color and that can play MP3s. No doubt about that.
It's called progress.
Color-Palms are just a step in that direction. It will not happen overnight, but it will happen.
You can quote me on that.
Actually, I think the model number was Palm 1000. I've upgraded mine from 128k to 512k, then to 1MB, then to 2MB w/infrared. All along, I've been just amazed that this little Palm was keeping up with the times. Especially in these days of throw-away, non-upgradeable computers.
;)
I am tempted to go out and at least look at the IIIc. A nice black on white screen would be nice, and since I don't have backlighting with my current model, that would also be a bonus. Sadly, I've found that I'm using my Palm less these days.... fewer meetings to keep track of in my new company, and I'm bad about entering my todo list into the thing. Ah well.
And, I guess having an upgraded Pilot 1000 shows that I'm an early adopter, and not one of those Johnny-come-lately Palm V owners
Oddly, I think the coolest thing about this one is that it too is rechargable. That's the one thing I really disliked about my Palm Pro, and then my Palm III. I go through too many batteries.
Color does open up a bunch more options, though. WinCE had two bigger problems: first I have still seen no open-sourced or free development tools. Most folks I know didn't want to buy VC++ and then the cross-compiler to play with an app they thought of building. Second, WinCE was a bigger multi-tasking OS--totally unnecessary for a palm computer (imo).
I _really_ like the fact that my Palm isn't multi-tasking and that it has hooks for programs to restore state when I switch back into them.
/will
In the meantime, its nice that PALM is putting more RAM into the PDA's. But on the other hand, isn't 2MB more than you will ever need?
Well, they do require you to sell your soul, but dammit, they're worth it. ;) I picked up a Cassiopeia E-105 in December that was cheaper than the list price of a Palm VII. (I was in the mood for a new gadget, and I've already got an original Palm Pilot and a Palm III.) Gotta say that it absolutely rocks, and I haven't touched my Palm III in over a month now. Great color, great sound, better controls, better handwriting recognition method, and for those times when I'm twiddling my thumbs on a plane, Python and a color GameBoy emulator. ;)
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
to clarify:
"The rechargeable lithium ion battery gives you over two weeks of constant run time, or 14 days of normal use."
You get 2 weeks of "constant run time" or 2 weeks of "normal use." So which is it? Unless "constant run time" is considered "normal use."
it's quite simple. you get over two weeks of "constant run time" or two weeks of "normal use." makes perfect sense, eh?.
The only thing I can think of that would be able to make use of colour (and be actually useful) on a palm device is if someone wrote a network monitoring tool (or something similar) that used line graphs (like MRTG)
Web surfing is pretty useless on such low res, unless the page is all text anyway.
The colour screen might give better contrast though, I don't know I haven't seen it.
If you make a general purpose machine, you cannot possibly think of all the uses one might use it for. That is what makes computers so useful - people can make them do whatever they want them to do - many of them some very innovative and novel ideas that the manufacturers of the device could've never thought of.
I cannot see any immediate gain in using a color Palm instead of my regular b&w one, but that doesn't mean that someone else cannot come up with a use that makes the application of colors immediately painfully obvious.
In other words, I have no doubt that it will be useful.
The above looked fine and formatted in preview. I promise!
Sorry.
Does anyone know if they are planning a color Palm V? I was thinking about investing in a V but I would wait if there was a color one coming out soon.
Now I can go look for all the new 256-Color Easter Eggs that the programmers hid in the OS.
Per their website, they did not use Flash ROMs because they feel that the springboard gives all the upgradability that people need, and that any meaningful OS upgrade requires new hardware pieces anyway.
That's one of the few things I don't like about my Pilot Professional. I'd love to upgrade to a Palm V or a Visor, but there's no real technical reason for me to do so.
:-)
Damn those clever engineers!
Perhaps you'd prefer one with a command prompt?
Come on. I don't mean to be nasty here but if you don't want one with colour, don't buy one. Vote with your pocket book. Stick to the old b&w if that's what your prefer.
But remember, many people would prefer one with colour. Why?
Ease of use, if programmed to use colour effectively and consistancy with their current desktop (which is most likely colour). This kind of innovation isn't meant for us (programmers et al), it's meant for pointy-hairs and housewives who don't really care if the battery life is 20% shorter or that it needs more ram. It looks cool, its familiar and it looks modern. They are more likely to use it and thus expand the palm user base (more sales, more $). With a desktop with millions of colours, why would an ordinary person want to use a PDA with the same graphical capabilities as the Iron Man watch?
Convergence is comming down the road, when Palms etc will be much more powerful and integrated (Bluetooth) with cell phones and other computers. For this to be accepted BY REGULAR PEOPLE, the interface will have to be full colour GUI. Plam is just competing with CE head on now.
Me? I'd prefer one with some "Mini-Linux" runing E in full colour...that would be cool.
Never by hatred has hatred been appeased, only by kindness - the Buddha
This sounds surreal, just like the Monty Python/Dead Parrot sketch. And I thought that strange kind of behavior was limited to England... now I see that it has spread to Ireland as well. I hope we can at least confine it to Europe.
(Disclaimer for the clue-impaired: This is supposed to be humorous.)
(Disclaimer for Queen's English spellers: I omitted the extra "u"'s in behavior and humorous because I am American and to save bandwidth.)
Russ
War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength. - George Orwell or George Bush?
So we have the Palm III, IIIe, IIIx, IV, V, VII, IIIc, IIIex in that order? Is Palm Computing aware that these symbols are roman numerals that are supposed to represent increasing values?
Maybe the next one will be "Palm Slackware 7".
--
Here is the result of your Slashdot Purity Test.
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
That is quite a testament that, even now, the older Palm models hold their own. (I'm using a PalmPilot Pro, myself.)
With each new iteration of the Palm line, I keep telling my friends I'm finally going to upgrade: My old Pilot has finally outlived itself, the new Palms have features I have to have, etc. But in the end (and many hundred dollars saved), I'm still using old faithful.
> The rechargeable lithium ion battery gives you over two weeks of constant run time, or 14 days of normal use.
You get 2 weeks of "constant run time" or 2 weeks of "normal use." So which is it? Unless "constant run time" is considered "normal use."
All I really want to know is: Where do I sign up for a free give-away of one of these?
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong."
My office has been taken over by iPod people.
It's a real computer, in an overgrown pocket calculator.
When I want a laptop, I'll grab my laptop. When I want my accessories I'll grap my laptop. When I want a PDA, I'll grab my palm.
If you want to buy a laptop in pieces, go for it. When not being able to show 30 second movies on a 2-inch screen 'causes me problems, I'll look at WinCE.
And I'd check you battery life sources again. The 6-8 hrs. I see in reviews are a far cry from the 20-30 my palm gets at home.
And of course, that's the real reason.
If a company's past actions don't affect your purchasing decisions, that's your dime. Personally, after a company treats me like shit, I do the same.(or does WinCE have a toll-free support number unlike every other Windows product, wait a sec, it's not even WinCE anymore, you are Windows Powered!)
if you want a great organizer go with the Palm Vx. If you want a great organizer with Multimedia and awesome color and don't quite need a laptop go with a Casio E-100/105.
from here
--
+&x
battery life, weight/size, ease of use. These are the things I need from a PDA. I don't want MP3 (not enough memory to make it worthwhile), I don't want movies (the point would be...?), and for damn sure I don't want Windows. That could be from 10 years of using their products, but mostly it's because when I was testing out PDAs, and picked up a the beautiful Cass and tried to lauch outlook, it crashed. I'd've called it a blue screen, but the color wasn't right. That was enough right there to scare me away. As a user have you EVER seen any apps crash? Maybe I just touched it in the wrong way.
With all the crap that M$ likes to add to their program (UID on every document, embedded tracking in their browser, etc) I just don't think they get the smaller is better philosophy. Whatever, PDAs are another tool, my Palm does great and exactly what I want, not what a marketing team has decided I want.
Seems to me that Palm went from the bottom up (from nothing : what do we need it to do) and M$ came from the top down (from the PC : what functionality can we clone, how many features can we add). Cramming a laptop into a palmtop didn't seem to make the market real excited. And what is the "just in case" scenario on a palmtop that requires multitasking and 65,000 colors?
--
+&x
Now if you were using your PDA, you'd pretty much have to hold it...there goes any possibility of performing any other activity. And while it may seem cool to have everything built into one device, you're just going to end up with something heavy and bulky, that isn't really good at anything. It's probably much easier to buy a good PDA, and a good (separate) mp3 player.
you're right, it is shorter. i had read old palm articles saying that they weren't going to go colour until they could achieve 'acceptable' battery life. i'm also used to seeing my friends recharging their palms almost daily
anyway, yeah it is shorter,..
...dave
Think different? I'd be happy if most people would just think...
christ on a crutch man, give it a break.
colour == feature. you wanna still have it in black and white? i'm sure there are still 16 shades of grey within that 256c palette. for the rest of us, this is what i've been waiting for, i haven't bought a palm before because i require colour for it to be worth my money,.. i don't wanna look at some gnasty greenish-grey display all day long, or even for more than 15 minutes.
now i can buy a palm IIIc and make some really spiffy games for it,... that's the whole purpose,.. the thing that is and has been great about palms is that they are elegant, they are small.. they work. colour is not a burden, it is not a problem... it is a very, very good feature.
you are correct that for a bit the quality of pictures went down when colour arrived, but who do we have to blame for that? the lazy studios/directors,.. just as you point out. not the camera manufacturers. so if the quality of palm software goes down, who do we have to blame? palm developers,.. such as yourself.
quit'cher bitchin'.
...dave
Think different? I'd be happy if most people would just think...
if you had bothered to read you would see that they've
...dave
Think different? I'd be happy if most people would just think...
i'm sure higher res and better screens, thinner display, more memory, longer battery, faster performance, etc. etc. are all in the works.
patience grasshopper.
...dave
Think different? I'd be happy if most people would just think...
the only reason for having a Palm is playing spiffy games on it! of course colour is necessary! sheesh!
...dave
Think different? I'd be happy if most people would just think...
I'm not sure the rechargable battery is a good thing. Even though it's li-ion, it will wear out eventually (maybe after 3 years or so?) and then you're Palm 5 or 3c is useless as the battery is internal and can't be replaced. Also, say you're in a foreign country and don't have the cradle with you.. Throwing in two AAA batteries that give enough power for two months seems like a better alternative to me!
What's the battery life supposed to be like (I'm talking TOTAL life, not "one charge") on one of those things? Can't be more than 3-5 years, right?
The IIIc does have a Flash ROM. The Palm IIIe is the only shipping device that cannot be flash upgraded.
I think a lot of people are underestimating the power of color to increase data "digesting". Using colors to denote priority, urgency, serious/informative, categorization are all much more powerful than using numbers or symbols (especially where real-estate is at a premium and icons are reduced in size or eliminated completely).
I like the color palms.
Not because I need 256 shades of chartreuse, but because I think that a true, black-on-white screen will be much easier to read than my Palm III's black-on-olive-drab.
Compare the screen of even an older passive-matrix notebook with the screen of a Palm in bright sunlight. The Palm is almost impossible to read under these conditions, but the notebook is easy to see.
Chances are, I'll get one, just for increased readability.
Battery life? Well, the expected battery life they're quoting is fourteen days of normal usage, and it uses a rechargeable battery. I don't have any problem dropping my cell phone into a rechargeable cradle every couple of days while I sleep. If I have to drop my Palm into the cradle every Sunday night to pay for a screen I can read in the sun, I'll do it.
I ordered my IIIx Friday, received it this morning. I was playing with it when I saw the article on Slashdot.
I felt like banging my head against the desk.
I paid $225 with shipping at CDW. I know it was more expensive than at other places, but I trust CDW with my credit card number.
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. - Cmdr. Susan Ivanova
You're right, it does look smaller, not by much though. I'd like to see the overall dimensions, I wonder if it's thicker?
No man is an island, But if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie them together, they make a pretty good raft.
>haha
I think you missed the point:
2weeks = 14 days...
OK, color Palm is cool. I don't believe the battery claims, but I may actually might want to buy one. What I need is the Springboard slot though, and/or Bluetooth when available. When will Handspring follow? Did they announce any color products?
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Yep, I agree! Cassiopeia E-105's ROCK!!!!!!
Think of some early color films, like The Ten Commandments or The Wizard of Oz. They didn't suck! Sure, I guess there were some long-forgotten films that came out just to be flashy (like all those 3D horror flicks... yuck). Doesn't mean the overall quality went down. It took the movie rating system to do that.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
If the Handspring Visor's ever come out with a Flash ROM, I'll be there, until that happens, forget it.
I haven't even owned my IIIx for a year and I've already upgraded the OS twice.
This is not the sig line you are looking for... -- Old Jedi Sig Line Trick
There's no way to argue that color is a necesity, but it is certainly a worthwhile addition. First of all, color can actually make the Palm more functional. Color coding allows you to fit more information into the same space, and it could be added to many Palm applications. Second, it's just nicer to look at, in my opinion. If the price were the same, I'm sure that that a vast majority would choose color over greyscale.
To fear that the Palm is going the way of WinCE is a major overreaction. WinCE failed because Microsoft tried to recreate the feel of Windows on a tiny PDA screen. The result, of course, was that the functionality fell short of what the Palm OS offered. WinCE was inferior even before color was added.
But what I'd love to see would be something with the upgradability of a Palm device (via the flashable ROM's) and the Springboard slot. It does lead to the question: why did Handspring take out the Flash ROM's in the first place? Does anyone know?
Price and marketing. Flash ROM costs more than the Mask ROM that the Visor uses. Also, when doing their research, Jeff Hawkins (the guy who, along with Donna Dubinsky, created the original Pilot) discovered that only 5% of all Palm users ever upgraded the OS. So they decided to chuck the Flash ROM.
Does this
A more complete listing would be:
There was no Palm IIIi. The IIIxe seems a little out of place. The x implies that it is an "extra" model, like the IIIx before it but the e implies that it is somehow limited, like the IIIe.
btw: i have a iiix, and I don't think I could ever fill it up, so iiixe looks a little silly to me.
I have Visor Deluxe with 8MB, 4.2MB of which are already used up. So yes, you can fill up the IIIx's 4MB easily. Remember, the more storage space you have, the more you want to use up.
Does this
Isn't double the ram supposed to be 16?
No matter how fast computers get, you'll always be waiting - Matt Klem
1. Palm = Computer (not just calculator). People have argued that the Palm is a glorified PDA ever since the 1st generation WinCE devices came out. That is, of course, absurd. The Palm is limited (mostly due to its low resolution screen and speed of text entry) but is quite functional for Spreadsheets, simple databases, etc...
2. While the E-105 is faster for purely FPU related stuff (such as, say, Chess) due to its 133MHz CPU, the Palm is more responsive for most PDA tasks.
3. Palm is smaller and lighter. This obviously doesn't matter to everyone, but it is THE primary reason most people I know choose the Palm. I simply consider the E-105 to big and heavy to carry with me all the time, while I don't even notice my PalmV in my pocket (The WinCE devices that are as small as the Palms are too slow). The PalmIIIc is larger/heavier than the V, but it's a hell of a lot more portable than the E-105.
4. If you're going to compare memory, then remember that for almost every use, 8 MB on a Palm is more than 32 MB on a WinCE device (due to programs being smaller and the Palm OS being more efficient).
I'm not anti M$. I actually use and like (for the most part) Win2k and Office97. However, WinCE is crap. I said it when it first came out and I'll say it again... it was a mistake for M$ to try to squeeze a stripped-down desktop OS into a handheld. M$ needs to start over. If they made CE as fast and efficient as EPOC32 or PalmOS, WinCE would rule the handheld market (afterall, the WinCE devices' hardware is impressive).
Both platforms have their strengths and weaknesses. If you want MP3, movies (or anything that needs higher resolution), Compact Flash abilities, or the ability to to run FPU intensive apps, then get an E-105. If you want small size, small weight, longer battery life (Not THAT much longer for V, or Vx... figure the IIIc will be approx the same as the E-105), and quick responsiveness, and a screen that you can read in sunlight, then get a Palm (PalmIIIc if you want color).
Rant off.
The new CPU also has a second UART, and support for 2 banks of 32MB SDRAM... so we can also look forward to more memory.
It's almost a joke, but it works.
It does not delivery realtime video or MP3 stream, and I don't advise you to run Slashdot in it, but it works.
You gave me a nice idea. As a "nothing better to do" project, I'll create some pages and show them in the Palm Webserver. Thanks !!!
[]'s Carlos Cardoso - Becoming a brazilian ProBlogger, typo by typo
I hear you. I'm still using a Professional model, and it does everything, including a compiler! (I'm not joking - I use a full C compiler on it. It's called Onboard C, and no, it's not PocketC.) I've been thinking about upgrading, and have been seriously looking at the Handsprings and the IIIx (well, now the IIIxe) as well as the Psion Revo, but I still don't see a need to upgrade.
"The romance of Silicon Valley was about money - excuse me, about changing the world, one million dollars at a time."
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why did Handspring take out the Flash ROM's in the first place?
So they can sell the 8mb flash Springboard module for an exorbitant sum....
Seriously, though, space requirements, possibly?
-Ravagin
"Ladies and gentlemen, this is NPR! And that means....it's time for a drum solo!"
Karma: T-rexcellent.
Black on white text. Not dark grey on light greeny grey, but black on white.
Now that's a feature worth getting.
: Fruitbat :
I have discovered a truly remarkable
Nyuk, nyuk...
My NeXTstation can decompress an mp3 stream (128kbps, 44LHz) in real time and play it, leaving plenty of cycles of the 33MHz processor left to do productive things.
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Max V.
There should be a moratorium on the use of the apostrophe.
Max V.
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Can anyone comment on Palm's pathetic inventory management?
You can't find any r?etailer that has a Palm Vx to sell - many don't have any model
of the Palm to sell. You can't even order a Palm Vx from Palm until 3/4/00 and that
date keeps moving back with the passing of each day. I hope these problems don't
reoccur with these newer models.
These problems don't look good as Palm approaches IPO time.
Still probably won't get an mp3 player for the palm pilot then.
I'll just have to wait for the Ericsson T28 addon.
450 dollars is crazy compared to the Handspring Visor's 225 deluxe edition that within the 6 months is going to be every household appliance known to man, and have an MP3 module built for it. -Devin
you like that? they're blatently lying to you. 14 days!? HAHAHA -Devin
yah, give us good color, or don't give us color at all... Personally I think this is a desperate attempt of The Palm trying to catch up with the hype around the handspring visor... -Devin
Colour screens are not always power hungry. For example, the Garmin 12CX GPS unit boasts a three colour display (red, green, blue) vs. the monochrome screen of the equivalent 12XL model, yet has 50% *better* battery life (36 hours vs. 24 hours.) I don't know how they did it, but that's pretty neat.
I own a Palm III (ye olde "ugly" screen - 4 level greyscale at a pinch) and love it. While I don't find it lacking compared to the 16 greyscale IIIe etc. or now 256 colour Palm IIIc, there are some occasions when a better display would be handy.
Offering these models does not detract from the Palm's features - it offers flexibility. As with Linux, variety is the key to success; while some may consider it superfluous, others may see it as a necessity. Either way, it's another nail in the WinCE coffin.
Rather than quibble about the virtues of the hardware, it would be far better to evangelise the benefits of GPL and freeware, which are sadly lacking on the Palm (with some notable exceptions.)
256 colors is good enough to make some really nice games. Too bad for the buttons displacement.. but RTS should be fun with pen and infrared communication.
Resolution may still be the same but antialiasing is now possible, just in time for the PDF reader.
Color is good !
http://palmorder.modusmedia.com/P3/P3c-3C80600U.ht m
:)
"The rechargeable lithium ion battery gives you over two weeks of constant run time, or 14 days of normal use."
Cool! I'm going to leave mine on all of the time to get the extra battery life.
I agree; higher resolution would be a lot more useful and pleasing to the eye. Wait until you can't differentiate between a printed page and a palm screen.....as for the battery life, as much as I love my Vx, it doesn't stay powered up for that long. Though it's designers probably intended it be more for quickly jotting down notes than playing lengthy games of PocketChess....
According to Palm Pilot -- the Ultimate Guide, published by O'Reilly, the designation IV was skipped because
As for skipping the VI, it was a marketing ploy to underscore the idea that the Palm VII was a revolutionary development in hand-held computers. Was it? I suppose so.
What I find interesting is that the line between cell phones and PDA's seems to be rapidly blurring. Will we be able to carry just one compact device to handle all out mobile telecommunicating needs?
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Computeri non cogitant, ergo non sunt
For some reason, I seem to associate black and white with both ease and simplicity of use. Perhaps the point was a bit muddled, but I feel that adding colors is just another step in the trend towards making the palm device into a portable multimedia machine, which I feel is the wrong path for Palm to take.
-Andrew
More to the point, keep in mind the price/performance ratio. The visor, with USB AND serial cradles costs $260 with 8mb of ram. When you could only get 2mb of ram the flash for OS upgrades was important; Squandering a mere 100k is still ~5% of your total storage space. With 8mb, it's ~1%, which is easier to swallow.
:) And yes, I know I am going old-sk00olier-than-thou here, but I'm serious. A 20mhz 68000 just can't hack it.
I too, however, am waiting for handspring to announce a color model. For those of you who missed good old VGA, you could do a heck of a lot with 8 bit color. Some of us remember what Doom 2 was like; It would still be a fun game today (even with dated graphics) if you could aim up and down. You can't, so I'm not that interested.
But I digress.
256 colors is enough for games, plenty for still images (as long as there's not too much compression artifacting) and more than enough for applications. I also don't see it as that much of a strain on the system; It's not like it's 24bpp. Those of you who don't remember when 24bpp graphics were slow should probably stay out of the whole conversation
In any case, I just bought a Visor. I'm not buying a pilot. I have too much emotional investment in the handspring modules, especially the mp3 player, digital camera, and GPS. The GPS is going to be the best thing since the palm rolled out, IMO. Quo Vadis OWNZ J00!
So to sum up, color good, 8 bits is plenty.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I have a P75 running 2.0.30 with the PC speaker audio device patch applied. I can play 128kb/s MP3 through the PC speaker and there are no jumps..I guess you are trying to play mp3s over a sound card under windoze. This proves that it is not necessarily the hardware that is restricting performance. If a P75 can produce decent sound over a 6 bit internal speaker.. who knows what noise you will get out of the Palms of today and tomorrow. Stop using duff software!
Such is life.
The color's a nice touch, and I applaud Palm for adding it (though I wonder why they opted for active-matrix instead of the newer, super-reflective type like in the Game Boy Color; those have much longer battery life because they don't require a backlight all the time).
:)
But what I'd love to see would be something with the upgradability of a Palm device (via the flashable ROM's) and the Springboard slot. It does lead to the question: why did Handspring take out the Flash ROM's in the first place? Does anyone know?
Currently my old Palm III is just fine for me. Butr if Handspring puts the Flash ROM's into the next Visor (or I can find a very good rteason that they didn't) I just might switch to the Visors. Particularly if the Linux port can run on them by then
But I don't buy it. OS upgrades, even on a PDA, aren't just about hardware. Even on a Palm device, there's always room for stability improvements (yes, I have managed to crash my Palm III, albeit only once, ever) and bugfixes. Then there's the fact that if you have the software to do it, you can store programs there for extra memory space (memory space that is preserved even across things which would wipe out the rest of the Palm's memory).
The Visor is a great little machine. In a lot of aspects it's better than my Palm III. But until they get Flash ROM upgradability into the things, I can't see myself getting one.
I am not going to buy/install Windows just to sync a palmtop.
Is it at all possible to make use of a WinCE machine (i.e., sync it, or transfer files from/to it) from a UNIX machine? Has anybody done anything of the sort, or tried it and failed heroically?
What I'd really like to see is a PalmPilot compatible with a larger screen resolution; 160x160 is woefully small; it's hard to fit much information on the screen.
(In contrast, Microsoft's ill-fated WinCE "palm-size PCs" do 240x320 or so... If they didn't require you to sell your soul to Redmond to be able to sync them, I'd be tempted to get one.)
I do have problems with greyscale sometimes, I need all the visual clarity they can give. The latter greyscale ones are cool, and I imagine the color one will be a welcome bonus. It's not like all of them are going color. :)
The price, in case anyone is wondering and hasn't visited the site is about $450, which puts it...about what, mid-range in the line...when are they going to release the VIIc?
I'm all for color. People in general work better with colors than numbers and greys.
It's much easier to see a red item on the screen and knowing that it is important rather than having a little number next to it telling you the priority. Sure you can sort them, but that can't be done in all instances. For example, a calendar program can't rearrange the days (without getting confusing). It would be nice to have a color flag to grab your attention -- drawing you towards the more important information.
I like my Palm IIIx just fine. 16 shades of grey works for me. I just hope Palm doesn't go down the road of WinCE by trying to pack everything in when it really isn't all necessary for the purposes of a PDA.
Sure, it's cool. But is it necessary? As a Palm developer, I think it's great to be developing for a slimmed-down platform. It's like the early days of mono displays trying to concentrate on information density and UI design rather than just throwing everything at the user because you can like in today's machines. More doesn't always equal better.
Remember, when color film came out, the quality of motion pictures went down. Think about it. The cinematographers and directors no longer had to worry about creating beautiful scenes with B/W; they could just throw color at the screen and hope that would impress everyone. I hope we don't see the same thing here...
--- witty signature
Palm Pilot (I)
Palm Pilot Pro (II?)
Palm III
Palm V
Palm VII
Palm IIIx
Palm IIIi
Palm IIIc
Palm IIIxe
A post above asked when the Palm VIIc comes out. They may have some power issues to work on with this one. I presume that they will need to work with a backlight on all the time with this one, and the battery life would be significantly reduced with the packetmodem.
also, on another note, did anybody else notice that this IIIc has a Li ion battery? This is odd, since the V seemed to be their "rechargable" line. Maybe they should rethink the numbering strategy.
btw: i have a iiix, and I don't think I could ever fill it up, so iiixe looks a little silly to me.
Lowmag.net
The only reason I can think of to have a color palm (besides the obvious cool factor) is for web browsing. Sure I haven't used AvantGo and a Palm VIII, but I suspect that you will only participate in very specialized browsing functions on a screen that small, color or no. Gimme a color web pad, sure, but for my money, the palm should remain in the realm of monochrome and text based...this is why the terminal applications are my favourite X apps.
I don't know about battery life, but I'm sure it's comparable to the Palm. And I think WinCE is actually much easier to use, given that it tries to do so much more.
Actually, the Cassiopeia makes a great MP3 player, after you pop in a 340MB CF hard drive. (Not an option for the Palm.)
And of course, that's the real reason.
Well, let's see... Digital photography (using the camera attachment), listening to an MP3 while doing anything else, killing an app when it goes flaky (and yes, that happens on Palms too)... But really, my biggest reason is just that I like to know it's there. It's a real computer, not an overgrown pocket calculator.
I'll stop here, because I'm starting to sound like a shill for Casio. I just don't understand why people are going nuts over this "new" Palm IIIc, when it's substantially inferior to stuff that's been around for months.
MSK
MSK
I bought a Cassiopeia E-100 (WinCE machine) about four months ago. It cost $50 less (street price is probably equal); it has 16 bit color instead of 8 bit color, a larger and higher resolution screen, 16MB storage vs. 8MB, a standard compact flash slot, a real OS (protected memory, multitasking, etc.), and probably a faster CPU (just guessing on that.)
Now, don't get me wrong, I know that most people don't need a color screen in a PDA, or multitasking, etc. But if, like me, you like to have those features there just in case... What on earth does the IIIc have going for it? Is it just Palm's monopoly power?
(Before anyone flames me... Yes, the PalmOS does preemptively multitask, but only when running Palm code. You can't write a multitasked app for it.)
MSK
Here's a link to their press release.
"At $44.99 per month, the new 'Unlimited Access Pricing Plan' provides customers access to Internet content and e-mail as frequently as they want for a single, low fixed price throughout the Palm.Net network of 260 metropolitan areas across the USA.
Work for Change & GET PAID!
Don't get me wrong, I think it is cool and all that. I just don't think I will have that much use for it.
Later...
KangarooBox - We make IT simple!
Gee, I wonder if it's time to upgrade yet.
Then again, my USR Pilot 100 (which I upgraded from 128k to 512k memory) is less than half full, stores all my phone + addresses, and plays chess. It doesn't even have a backlit display, but I use it all the time.
Amazing how the first iteration of a device (before it was renamed Palm Pilot even), which is almost 3 years old, is still very useful.
Not many companies make hardware with that kind of useful longevity!
-CausticPuppy "Of all the people I know, you're certainly one of them." -Somebody I don't know
Looking at the product spec for the IIIxe, available here, it has 2M of Flash ROM as well as its 8M of regular RAM.
;)
At only $20 more than a IIIx, this seems a great choice for those who aren't such yuppie managers that they need the V.
Fross
OK, color is nice. But what Palm should do is increase the resolution to 320x320 (supporting old apps double-pixlated). That would be MUCH more useful than color.
Better yet, make it 480x320 using the writing area (assuming they use a more scratch-resistant screen) with the option to rotate 90 degrees. Then you could actually use Telnet!
they've /extended/ battery life
Where do they claim this ? The only quote I could see was a claimed life of "two weeks average use" for the IIIc and "a month" for the V. As they're both rechargeable and I assume are using similar battery technology, then that's makes the IIIc to be twice as hungry as the V.
Palm power-save architecture is also such that "typical" use is much more efficient than heavy use. As my Palm V currently gives me around a week to two weeks of actual use for my own usage patterns, then the colour lifetime does concern me. If I had one, I'd certainly want a second cradle/cable for charging away from home.
I think you're making a crucial mistake here. You say that a PDA should be as simple as possible and you seem to be referring to ease of use and not to technical simplicity. This I derive from your remark on the E-100. It is not the black and white that makes a Palm simple. It is the logic behind the design that makes it simple to use. If the colors on the Palm Pilot are just as useful as the colored cases of a Handspring Visor, then there is no reason for them. But if they can add functionality throught the use of colour, then it is worth it for sure. (offcourse managers just buy it for the colour screen) :-)
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I do web page design, programming, and have a number of outdoor interests. Since I haven't replaced my last digital camera (stolen), I'm in the market for a new one.
With Kodak offering a VGA camera (a.k.a. the Palm Pix) I see an all in one solution.
With the two combined I can take photos of a disc golf course or event, label them, make notes about the photos and upload the page as soon as I get home. Using a portable keyboard makes the whole thing much easier and allows me to carry the whole production on the course.
One final comment: :)
"Remember, when color film came out, the quality of motion pictures went down." - Yeah, the Wizard of OZ sucked until Pink Floyd released a new sountrack...
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No Zen is good zen
That's just not enough color!
Why must Palm torment us so! Teasing us with these medium-grade color options. We want to see our telephone organizer and callendar in 32 bit True-Color, damnit!
Okay, I've been up way too long. This will seem far less funny after a cup of coffee...
Feminism is the wild notion that women are human beings.
Am I the only one who likes the idea of a black and white display on a PDA? In my opinion, a PDA should be kept as simple as possible. I mean, most likely, the reason to buy a PDA is to make you more efficient. Microsoft lost sight of that with their whole multimedia initiative with CE, and I hope that Palm isn't going down that path. I used to own an E-100, but sold it because I was finding that it was really no better for organization than my old Palm Pilot.
-Andrew
If you look close at the two pictures: color and b/w you'll see that the color screen is quite a bit smaller (or it certainly appears to be to me - either that or the color palm is much bigger overall). That's got to suck readability-wise. I know it's quite comfortable reading a long text on my Palm V, but anything smaller would make it a real eye strain. Anyone got one yet who can give a review?
Matt. Want XML + Apache + Stylesheets? Get AxKit.
Palm also released some new accessories today, including the folding keyboard discussed here a while ago (made by Think Outside but sold under the Palm brand) and a digital camera attachment. They've also added an unlimited-use plan for the Palm VII.
I don't know about you, but I actually use my Handspring a lot while I'm outside and out & about. I also use it in a lot of highly-lit areas. In fact, I *love* my Handspring's new reflective screen (versus my old Palm III's murky screen), and that it's pretty much readable under the same conditions as a book.
Now... my laptop and the WinCE PDA my boss just took back to Best Buy both have active matrix screens. You can't see either of them in sunlight outside, bright overhead light inside, or anywhere where the ambient light is brighter than that of the screen.
That sucks. Because a PDA is meant for quick, always available use. Not at your desk, but Out There when you get your ideas and make your meetings.
And as far as I'm concerned, and active matrix screen hampers that.