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U.S. Army To Develop "JEDI" Soldiers
Patrixmyth wrote to us with the CNN story about the U.S. Army's attempt to build Jedi Soldiers. Yes, they're going to dress up Sir Alec Guinness...er, rather Jedi is Joint Expeditionary Digital Information, which, essentially, is the Wired Soldier of Tomorrow. Palmtops, GPS, satellite up-links, oh my!
Not quite free as in beer, is it? I wonder how much they could have saved without using a (I'm assuming) special version of Windows CE.
kwsNI
I wonder if the military picked the acronym first, then hunted around for words to fit?
This sounds like yet another way for people to kill other people without even having to be in the same zip code. Seems to me it's easier to kill people if you don't have to look at them. I vote we go back to bashing at each other with swords - I have a strong feeling people have gotten so soft in the last hundred or so years that the amount of dead people would dwindle quickly. Besides, it's far harder to hide a 4 foot long bastard sword in one's backpack when going to school.
So how much does all this gear weigh? I seem to recall an old newspaper article discussing their development of a high-tech rifle, and noting that it was HEAVY compared to, say, your usual M16 variant. Much, much heavier, which you'd think might be an issue in built-up areas situation where you might have to react VERY quickly.
Then there's reliability. Unreliable gear might be worse than none at all if it leads to overconfidence or other forms of misjudgement. The more complex a system is, the more possible points of failure -- witness, say, the AH64 variants, which from what I've read are remarkably nifty, but also very poor from a maintenance perspective, with a high rate of cannibilazation for parts. OTOH, simpler crafts like B52s are still in service, and with updates are expected to serve for years to come...
Only the dead have seen the end of war.
I disagree. It only takes a few hours to learn how to operate a rifle, just as it only takes a few hours to learn how to swing a sword. To be proficient with any weapon is a more difficult.
The point was that the electronics suck right now, but they'll improve and we'll want to be proficient at utilizing them effectively when the time comes. It takes a lot longer to integrate them into a unit as a whole, with appropriate tacticts than to train an individual soldier to use his equipment.
I came across the "Land Warrior Project" website over a year ago. I bookmarked it and went back a couple of weeks later. It was gone. The "LWP" project is a next generation JEDI system. It is a fully integrated weapons system in which the meat soldier is not much more then a propulsion system. Even some degree of fire control was to be maintained by those in the rear. Scary. Very scary.
From what I understand, Windows CE is distributed much like other RTOS, complete source, but with big chunks missing for things that need to be developed for your specific hardware platform. A version for a JEDI probably isn't any more or less "special" than a Windows CE device from Casio. Also, I've heard that Microsofts royalies for Windows CE are really reasonable, probably comparing favorably to an eCos support contract.
I might point out that the English colonized India (shooting unarmed protestors "just isn't cricket"). Sometimes I wonder what would have happened if the Germans had colonized India instead ("please step up against that wall, Heir Gandi").
Non-violent protest only works against non-violent institutions.
// TODO: fix sig
They say that the army isn't getting as many men as they'd like... Just make a helmet/glasses/etc. that shows a Quake 3 HUD, UT HUD, etc. that counts their "frags" and they'll have us lining up to join. :)
Now maybe we can justify our large $$$ computer purchases and years of neglect in favour of "Just one more match" as training to "better defend our country!"
  Not to mention the fact that given the military's nature to train (read brainwash) grunts to react to any situation in an instinctive manner, what happens when it does fail? Will they know what to do without it?
  Any military man will tell you that this can be an infantryman's worst nightmare, and not because they are afraid that it may happen to them and they won't know what to do. Quite the contrary, grunts (esp. Marines) are well equipped to "adapt and overcome", but as we all know, there's always one knucklehead, and he's the one that gets his fireteam killed.
  Were I still in, the idea of such fragile technology on the battlefield would terrify me, although it would be a great toy for back in the barracks.
"I got a half gallon of Jack, and 2 dozen Ant Traps. I'm about to get wild." -me
Considering that these things run WinCE straight from the Evil Empire, I think they should be called SITH: Soldier's Information and Tactical... um, H-something...
Handheld
Please reboot for the changes to take effect.
Ryan
I suppose if Brittania gets a hold of this they'll have a specialized group of JEDI, all of whom have been knighted... :)
// Zarf //
-
[signature]
I sure think some people (like you) said "Ill stick with my sword" When the idea of acctually fire at someone with a rifle surfaced. I know that in certain situations a solider (more kinds than grunts I might add) should go with his rifle instead of downloading stuff on his PDA or whatever, but saying soliders shouldnt have more gadgets than rifles are just plain stupied. Assuming they wont have any use of such gadgets are also just narrowminded. I am not a grunt maybe thats why I realize this. There are other ways to fight a war than by telling grunts to kill.......my guess would be that the most feared enemies in the future are those who never pick up a gun!
Having been an infantryman in the Army and both a medic and CSSO (computer systems security officer) in the Air Force, and being currently a software and Web developer, I have to say that anyone who thinks that military personnel are a bunch of idiots who will "stay as far away from computers as they can" is both extremely prejudiced and very ignorant of the military. Computers already defend your country. Military life is very physical, true, but dumb jocks don't cut it.
...
The real issue is that grunts are deeply and justifiably suspicious of expensive, high-tech equipment that is likely to fail under the filthy conditions that characterize a combat soldier's life in the field. The flashy stuff is great when it works. When it doesn't, it's worse than useless. And this system runs on Windows CE? Apparently the brass hasn't learned a damned thing from those hacker attacks, not to mention an entire missile cruiser suffering massive NT failure
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
When you're as big an outfit as the US military, you don't need to build a new system from consumer products; you can do it better and cheaper (and hella secreter) if you spec and build it yourself. I think not. Granted, NASA has had some problems with their new approach to projects, but they've just pushed too fast. NASA used to say "We need a camera that can operate in extreme cold and in a sealed atmosphere so we can put it on a satelite" So they'd put a bunch of engineers on the project and have them design it, then buy the parts. Then somebody had the sense to turn to the worlds largest camera companies and say "Do you have one of those?" and they said "Yes, we've been selling them for use on submarines for over 30 years...we can help you modify it for use in space too." So, while yes, the army doesn;t need to be useing off the shelf consumer goods, consumer quality goods are many times some of the best ther are. -DW
~Donald / Just RTFM
The enemy need not be all that advanced themselves, just have advanced backers or access to advanced systems.
Example: Afghanistan.
Soviet Union sent in some fairly advanced stuff against what they expected to be a buncha guys with rifles and rocks. Surprise, those guys had more than rifles and rocks. Sure, there were other factors and things do change, but one thing remains: You are not fighting the enemy. You are fighting the enemy and any allies (even unwitting ones) he may have.
I don't subscribe to RMS's GNUtopian vision.
This problem in these sorts of situations is revenue. Businesses dealing with free software just don't have enough cash to afford to buy persons of Congress or Senators. MS does.
There are so many things wrong with this idea that it's not even funny. Is this a stable operating system? Not!!!. Excuse me Sarge, I have to reboot the system before we can call in artillery support on those troops attacking us. Cell Phones? Quick, how fast can you triangulate on a radio signal? One second? Maybe two? Why not just send those troops in with spotlights to make it even easier for the other side to call in artillery on their positions. And how much does all this stuff weigh? Don't these poor ground pounders have enough to carry around? And the good old bug-a-boo, EMP (Electro-Magnetic Pulse). Just detonate any kind of nuke (even a cheap dirty one) over the battlefield, and all these wonderful tech-toys are now just a pile of junk! Somebody get these guys on the clue train....
LongTail SSH Brute Force analysis tool is here!
I have noticed, however, working in a tech support department, that those whose lives consist of something that is stereotypically NOT a computer-linked career, like athletics or military, tend to stay as far from computers as they can. Same for those who don't understand how to use a computer.
Good luck to the military trying to teach these soldiers how to use them. Even tougher, enforcing the use of them (as opposed to leaving it behind in the big round metal bucket in the barracks.)
Well, maybe they'll have a nice paperclip friend on their palmtop, to help them with their system on the battlefield. :)
Back in the old, pre Return of the Jobsi Apple, I saw a demo of a Newton based battle system that the Marines were supposed to be messing around with.
Does anyone else remember seeing this application for the good old Newton, rip?
It really bothers me when I see Windows in use at government locations.
The idea is the lowest bidder gets the contract as long as the lowest bidder fits the specs.
One thing about this is it's clear open source software is not given a look. Free will beat any bid any company can give.
It also means a larg slize of closed source software was also passed over.
Theoreticly the popularity of software is not taken into account. Linux has no advantage over BSD in this market.
As we are aware there are a huge amount of imbeded, desktop and server operating systems out there many of whom are far supereor to Windows at a lower cost.
Yet Microsoft consistently gets the bid...
It bugs me... How can the requirements fit Windows and not fit Solarus?
Why dose Windows CE get the bid over PalmOS or Geoworks?
I don't expect to walk into city offices one day and see Linux but I'd like to walk into city offices one day and see something that dose the job (unless the job is waisting taxpayer money).
I don't actually exist.
Seriously, they have some implementation problems.
IMHO, both high-tech equipment and basic training are necessary. Throwing away high-tech stuff is just throwing out the baby with the bath water. High-tech equipment is necessary, and very useful. But. The Army should not be deceived by the illusion of safety that technology gives them. The soldiers need to learn basic skills that will be essential when the high-tech stuff fails. Technology does give an edge to the army -- however, only when used rightly. And relying on the false confidence (i.e. dependence) on technology is not to use it rightly. When the technology is available, by all means use it. But the soldiers also need to be trained what to do when there is no equipment to depend on. It's foolish to not fly when you have wings and jet engines. But it's equally foolish to not have landing gear just because you can fly. Use what is available, but always be prepared when it will no longer be available.
mikre he sophia he tou Mikrosophou.
EPLRS, which is the location-finding part of this, uses spread spectrum burst transmission and sends very small packets of data. I am told (though I admit it sounds too good to be true) that it is virtually impossible to use direction-finding equipment to pinpoint the user's location. We don't have the technology to do it and neither does the enemy.
The people who make decisions about purchasing this kind of stuff are smart enough to ask the same questions as you. More importantly, they know what artillery does to signal sites that's give away their positions. So don't sweat it. Personally, I am more worried about my boss being able to track my location. Questions like "Why did you spend all day at that location?" are way too much micro-management for my tastes.
This is intended as just one more way to give situational awareness to soldiers, and in that respect it's a good thing (tm)
oni
GPS systems...all soldiers interlinked to each other...heldheld access to information...
They sound more like Storm troopers to me!
-DW
~Donald / Just RTFM
This is an account of the Delta Force and Army Rangers in Mogadishu, Somalia on the day a dozen Americans and perhaps 500 Somalis died. The "D-boys," basically Navy Seals with JEDI-like technology, consistently and vastly outperform the more numerous but conventionally armed Rangers. Adimittedly, the Delta Force is an elite unit, but Army Rangers are no slouches. The communications/computing technology, in the hands of properly trained troops, made a huge difference on the battlefield. Had they had the GPS techonlogy integrated into individual soldiers gear, several American (and many Somali) lives would have been saved.
Read it for yourself: http://www.philly.com/packages/somalia/nov16/defau lt16.asp
"one treats others with courtesy not because they are gentlemen or gentlewomen, but because you are" --G. Henrichs
"A witty saying proves nothing." -Voltaire
"A witty saying proves nothing." ~Voltaire
"d'Oh!" ~Homer
New Recruits==Pathetic Arses Doing Anything With A Nine (?)
Can anyone think of a better one?
Stating on Slashdot that I like cheese since 1997.
This sounds alot like starcraft without the resources. You click on a bunch of icons, right click where you want them to go, then the gps system alerts each individual soldier where they are supposed to be...
Diabolic Android Running Towards Humans
I'd also be willing to bet that if us military simpletons out here on /. can think this stuff up, so can they. I would like to suggest maybe they have thought up come contermeasures or have done some kind of cost/benefit analysis. Then again, maybe not. They chose CE. This, from the gov't that invents its own floor wax...Don't they at least have their own operating system somewhere?
cat
think of all the geeks who will rush to enlist only to find out they fall miserably short of the physical requirements.
May the force be with them...
I swear, between the $$$ commercials on prime time TV and these lame new attempts to seem hip, it's starting to seem more and more like the Starship Troopers future...
Free music from Jack Merlot.
Thats the most dumb-as-shit thing I've heard in at least a week. People have disputes. They also have tempers. While it is in everyone's power to control their own temper, it is in no-one's power to control the other person's temper, barring VIOLENCE. Nonviolence works sometimes. And sometimes it gets you killed. Just because the teletubbies or whatever you've been watching have told you the world is happy and shiny doesnt mean there's not a killer living in your town.Grow up, while you have the chance.
"A witty saying proves nothing." -Voltaire
"A witty saying proves nothing." ~Voltaire
"d'Oh!" ~Homer
Someone please send them the cluestick. I'll even pay for postage.
Ugh!
darren
Cthulhu for President!
(darren)
Actually the USGOVT cant sell anything like that to anyone. I live 40 miles from the Handford/Manhattan site and we can't buy the power from the site (which puts out something like 250MW i think). Instead we buy from the Dam (on the Snake river! NO DAM BREACHES!) ..
And I looked, and behold, the pokemon all spontaneously combusted.
kwsNI
There's a big difference between the example you gave and what I wrote: Nasa probably doesn't need those cameras in bulk. At least not the way the military needs soldiers in bulk; Of course it's going to be cheaper and tons faster to go out and buy X amount of parts, while X is relatively small. Even if you pay 100 times what a scratch-built part would have cost, you skip the design costs entirely.On the other hand, when you intend to outfit a large number of units with this part, the constant design cost will fade into the background if you design a cheaper unit which does everything you need and nothing you don't.In all fairness I should have said
When you're as big an outfit as the US military, and you're building a lot of units you don't need to build a new system from consumer products; you can do it better and cheaper (and hella secreter) if you spec and build it yourself.You're again right when you say that consumer products are many times the best there are: however, what's "best" in the consumer market can vary wildly with what's "best" in the military market. And since these devices are likely going to serve a few VERY specific purposes, IMHO the military could've probably saved some money, and gotten a more field-appropriate tool by designing it themselves. Like I said in the article its my opinion.[Flame shield on]
"A witty saying proves nothing." -Voltaire
"A witty saying proves nothing." ~Voltaire
"d'Oh!" ~Homer
Or, depending on the lighting, the Paisley Or ORange Screen Of Death. What fun...
Wah!
...or at the veryleast require royalties?
BlackNova Traders
I think we all agree that if you take the best techology today and try to create a wired soldier, you're going to end up with an unreliable, inpractical mess. I'm sure the top brass knows this too, they have to be smart and practical to get to where they are.
So why the hell are we burning all this money on it for? Practice. One day, perhaps around 2030 or so, it may be practicle. Compare what we have know with what we had 30 years ago. Then extrapolate that 30 years in the future. Much Smaller, more useful, more reliable, etc etc.
When that day comes (if it comes - history doesn't guarantee the future), do we want to start from scratch wiring our armed forces? No, we want to have been testing and playing with the technology for 30 years, working out the kinks.
So, it would be foolish for our units to use this stuff in a real world combat enviroment (or at least to rely on it), but we need the experience, so one day the transition will be less painful. (or would you rather we ignore it, stick to our m16s and shovels, and let China perfect it first?)
Night vision must have seemed like a useless toy when it was first proposed, but it is a decisive tool.
What about when firearms were first invented? We were stuck with these heavy impracticle muskets for a very long time. I'm sure people said "These are stupid, I'll just cut him open while he's reloading. It relies on gunpowder, you can't even get them wet! I'll equip my army with swords and longbows, thank you very much."
Don't forget about airplanes! impracticle as all hell in 1903, extremely important in WWI less than 20 years later!
So even though they seem impracticle today, give these emerging technologies a chance. Give our military decision makers some credit too, they're smarter than you think.
May the Source be with you.
I read that in someone's sig, it didn't really fit until you have JEDIs running around.
- Persnickity
Wouldn't that mean it's really a GPF receiver?!?!?! Cheers =)
--
back in the old days groups never knew where your other soldiers where, in case you got caught by the enemy. Now what if some opponent got into there satiellite, then they would know all of their movements and locations. And i know if I saw an enemy, I would blast him befor ehe had a chance to kill me. Isn't it kewl that now a 15 old can take over a warship??
Heh. I can't see the US Marines mentioned without
remembering a story about a Foreign Legion
training camp's obstacle course.
Said course was part of jungle training. Various
other armies would send teams to try it out. The
record for traversing it was, IIRC, 17min, and
the average was about half an hour.
2 hours after the Marines started the course, they
had to radio for help getting out. One wonders
if they thought about calling in some herbicide
strikes first.
Heh.
K.
-
-- Proud descendant of semi-nomadic cattle-herders.
...Although, what I see coming out of this is basically use by recon top units (who tend to carry a bit more advanced equipment than your everyday grunt). Putting this in the hands of your everday soldier will prove (quickly I imagine) to be a bad idea. I bet a high percentage will find it useful in training and the like. Should they ever really get dropped into a combat situation though, I see all those things getting stuck in a pack or cargo pocket never to see the light of day again. Let's hope the field officers and NCO's have enough common sense to know that this stuff, while neat and useful in theory, will never beat a rifle, map and compass.
-semper fi
Once you start down the dark path, forever will it rule your destiny. UNDERSTAND THAT, DO YOU, SOLDIER?
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Does something seem kind of frightening to anyone else about putting GPS systems on soldiers? All I need is for the enemy to figure out how to access the system, and be able to pinpoint my exact location by sattellite.
-Foxxz
const int SIZE=100;
cout "Girls know, " SIZE " matters\n";
James T. Kirk already resolved this issue. Yes, people must physically die in order for the combat to come to a conclusion. The conclusion is reached when one side finds it too painful to carry on.
First off they have been working on this system for almost 10 years so this is hardly a new story. Second, the military has already decided that remote soldiers or vehicles are not suitable for combat. The reason being that the remote feed can be jamed or intercepted( having your army turn around on you would kind of suck) and that any controller station in the world, say the US, would then be a fair target. And making US cities a bonified UN approved target is very frowned upon. All that leaves is the improvement of our deployed forces. AKA JEDI, Mobile Personnel Armor, and man portable smart weapons. And no these technologies are nothing like Quake.
..which just shows that the human brain is ill-adapted for thinking and was probably designed for cooling the blood-T P
Well you're right, it isn't a web server (unless the DoD went with another poorly chosen off the shelf solution) that anyone who wants to can attack. On the other, much more important hand, this system has to stand up to a determined intruder who will die or worse if unsuccessful. An intruder who is likely probing military targets every day, every hour, silently looking for a weakness to exploit at just the wrong moment. Everyone doesn't have easy access to the system; that doesn't mean that it is a priori impregnable.
>>if you want to get into them you either have to hold them in your hand or be able to crack the sat. system.
Oh, i get it now. The satellites talk to the soldiers, and vice versa. The data never goes anywhere else? like say, command HQ? Are satellites invulnerable to cracking? (hint: no). We're not talking about security against 14 year old script kids. This is a military system, which will come under attack by military opponents. You and I may not be able to crack a sat whenever we get the urge, but do you want to gamble that China/Iraq/wherever CANNOT buy/rent/coerce the skills needed to do that? Would you bet the lives of hundreds or thousands of your countrymen on that gamble? Security is not a one step, one shot, fire and forget issue.
>>plus when these things we(re) being designed, mobile linux/BSD most likely didn't even exist.
[Sarcasm] Oh really! Wasn't BSD released before winCE?[/Sarcasm] BSD was probably ported to the Palm roughly 2 femtoseconds after the first commercial offering. And, this article is about a current initiative, not a historical one. Further, your use of the word 'plus' is grammatically incorrect :) It means "with the addition of", not "also".
>>The palmtops are just dumb clients,
No the article clearly states: The palmtop is "the brain of the system," Eubank said.
>> This is not insightful, its just windows bashing.
No, I actually meant what I wrote. I didn't just bullshit two pages for the opportunity to put down Windows and Microsoft. It MAY NOT be insightful, but neither is it "just windows bashing".
"A witty saying proves nothing." -Voltaire
"A witty saying proves nothing." ~Voltaire
"d'Oh!" ~Homer
Considering all the arms that the U.S. exports, either legally or illegally, maybe this is not such a bad idea...
As a Marine computer programmer (no, really!), I was charged with the thankless task of teaching other jarheads to use MSDOS. I pity the foo that has to teach these dogs how to use these things. I hope it at least displays pictures. First Star Wars, now Jedi's. How long until DoD contemplates building a Death Star?
Keep in mind that the U.S. Military also plans on replacing the ubiquitous M16A2 with the "Objective Infantry Combat Weapon". While technology is nice, one has to wonder if we're abandoning superior training for superior equipment? Training is always useful. Technology is nice as long as the batteries last and the leads don't short and the parts don't bend and the innards don't get any dirt in them and, of course, you know what the hell you're doing.
"Prejudice is wrong; you should hate everyone the same."
Yeah, but the only reliable source of an EMP that I know of is a nuclear explosion. Right there you get into the realm of nuclear escalation, so ground troops really don't matter at that point.
"Prejudice is wrong; you should hate everyone the same."
It seems to me, that the army can pretty much do whatever it wants here, since they are the ones who ultimatly enforce the laws.
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Uh err, just because nations *can* agree, doesn't mean that's a good option though. Case in point: Nazi aggression in Europe. Can anyone give me a nonviolent solution that wouldn't have led to Hitler raping the continent silly before going after the rest of the world? Nonviolent as in, not killing anyone, nor threatening to if they don't comply.
And as for your question,
Why can't they agree to settle the differences in a nondestructive way?
The answer is that they do often settle their differences nonviolently, or at least without all out war; However I get the feeling that maybe you want to know why they sometimes resort to violence, when a nonviolent solution is possible?I'd have to say it's because most people would rather die than suffer some injustices, and would often rather fight than die; this is true on national and personal levels.Until there's enough for everyone, and it's distributed "fairly", AND people stop lusting for more just because more seems attainable, there will be violence in some form. Hell, everyone is suing their neighbor and coworker over inane bullshit these days... thats a form of violence too!My (possibly totally foolish, possibly totally correct) conclusion is that we are violent because those ancestors of ours who were violent, were more prosperous and fruitful than those who chose nonviolence over greed.
Might makes right. Not because some 'god' wrote it on a stone tablet, rather because the strong dominate the weak. Whoever's dominating, whoever gets their way, makes the rules. If they decide there will be no rules, the decision was still set by the dominant one. Life's not fair or pretty. Morals are situational. Facts are less than absolute. Wheee!!!!a
"A witty saying proves nothing." -Voltaire
"A witty saying proves nothing." ~Voltaire
"d'Oh!" ~Homer
Tell that to the Air Force
>> It has been proven over and over again (from the Goths to the American Revolution to Vietnam)
>> that distributed, guerilla-style fighting is less fragile...
Goths proved this?
I've never seen a Goth that was really interested in fighting. Seems like all they want to do is stand there in their black cloaks and pretend to be vampires.
In post-9/11 America, the CIA interrogates YOU!
Lets see, Navy builds smart ship, installs Windows NT for OS, and is stranded in the ocean for a few hours because of a divide by zero error somewhere. Navy realises NT sucks for ships. Army builds smart suit with CE, and during a test, a building is mistargeted and downtown Colorado Springs would have been hit had it not been a test. When will they ever learn. I guess they looked at the MS page compairing Palms against Palm PC's and never wondered why the battery life, size, and readibility outside were missing in the compairsion.
Maybe you should cut down on your caffeine intake?
The ability to solve problems intellectually is what makes us human.
Anyone with a decent IQ understands that war and physical violence are unnecessary.
Maybe one with enough scence not to use MicroShaft products in there armed forces.
I would want my country to have a chance of winning a war.
-----
DemonStreet.com
I guess as long as our guns aren't running CE we may still survive. As the saying goes, "Whoever has the most guns wins." We've been trying to lose that battle for years, but fortunatly there have been a few people (Ronald Regan, George Bush) that have at least had the foresight to make enough that we still have more than everyone else. Can you imagine though?
Bill Gates is facing the firing squad.
Comander: "Ready, Aim...."
Soldier: "Um, sir the guns are rebooting."
Bill: "Hahaha I knew this day would come so I put my curse on all of your weapons. Muhuhuhahaha..."
Dissenter
Dissenter
"There is no knowledge that is not power."
Sign me up! I'm a crack shot as long as I have my glasses on.>:)
Of course, I prefer the Apple Newton to those Cringe devices.... But I'm sure that won't set me back to much. Probably keep me out of officer training though.>:)
Kintanon
Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
When I saw it used the windows CE os. (Which is one of the OS that we support to get onto the internet.)
Crap... I'm gonna have to do tech support for those guys in the middle of a firefight.
- "Yeah man, I tell ya what, man...That dang ol' Internet, man...You just go one there and point and click...Talk about
Sir! I'm getting a transmission from sector 9... "preparing to transmit coordinates for artillery bombardment... transmit. Wait, no! A blue screen of death! Sir, I suspect they're using the force.. fall back, fall back! ------
"He's more machine now than man, twisted and evil."
why not /. readers as JEDI soldiers? simple..
an officer's diary
day 1: the new recruits came in, and got handed their hand-helds. So far so good.
day 2: It seems some of the new recruits installed some software on their hand-helds. it's probably games or something. Most of the new recruits just beat me at quake, so they can't be all bad.
day 3: The new recruits are really getting into these hand-held things. We had to let off one of the new recruits. he kept whining about our dinners not including grits, and poured his dinner down his pants.
day 4: wtf did those guys do with their hand-helds? Not a decent window inside, just this silly dos-prompt. when I asked them about it, they started yelling that this was linux, not dos
day 5: I have no idea what the recruits are on. they keep talking about beautiful-wolf or something.
day 6: our encryption has been broken. It's been safe for at least 10 years, but the new recruits used their wolf (I havent seen any canine around) to crack it, and they knew the orders before I did.
.........
//rdj
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
1 Jedi Soldier
Intel PentiumII 233 MHz processor(1): 20,000
Microsoft Windows CE (1 license): 15,000
Other Hardware: 5,000
Total: 30,000
WinCE? (ever notice how it spells wince, like you do each time it crashes????) In the battlefield? 'blue screen of death' takes on a whole new meaning...
Iridium. I don't believe it Bob, the Army is batting .000 right now...
Though in all seriousness, the Marines at Pendleton tried this one - two years ago and found out:
Sometimes more information is not so good.
Even if everyone agreed to lay down their arms, how long do you think it would be before some starving hobo in some back alley decided to rob your house for a loaf of bread? How long before one nation notices how easily it could just *take* some desperately needed resource from a neighbor?
Violence is here to stay. Maybe not forever, but for a long, long, looooooong (hella long!) time.
"A witty saying proves nothing." -Voltaire
"A witty saying proves nothing." ~Voltaire
"d'Oh!" ~Homer
The Viet Cong and North Vietnamese Army took far more casualties than the U.S. Army. True enough, but they accomplished their objectives while keeping the US from achieving theirs. All that, and no significant air cover. Ironically, that provides an interesting look back at what was thought to be true: The original F-4 Phantoms where designed without a gun, as it was thought that future air combat would be fought with missiles and radar, and the combatants would never get into gun range. James
You must be level 21 to enter Baghdad, but newbies are welcome to help overthrow Central American dictators.
Oh, and watch out for the pkillers.....
I wonder what would happen if I 'found' a 5 foot spool of insulated wire - the kind that the electric company has laying around and a really big capacitor? Something that could be charged for a week or so..
Hi-tech solutions can always be attacked in amazingly low-tech ways. I hope were not totally forgetting that.
-Scott scott@surrealistic.org
Its also the way that unreasonable expectations are created. During the Gulf war, the DOD sold the public on "smart bombs." People now think that a laser guided bomb is a.) unerring b.) only affects the selected target. Well, duh. Any refraction or reflection of the beam can make the bomb go off target, and just because the beam is targeted on that tank sitting next to the school playground doesnt mean it wont miss the tank and blow the shit out of the playground. All you had to do is read the papers during the Kosovo jobber to see how ridiculous are people's expectations of what these weapons can do. It also makes people forget how much collateral damage these weapons DO prevent.
In my opinion the American people have lost all sense of how dirty, ugly, and mean war is. But I guess everyone doesnt have memories of their father screaming in his sleep, dreaming of the jungles of SE Asia... or have the first hand knowledge itself. Americans like wars such as the Gulf War, where 90% of the enemy gives up without a shot fired. That makes for good entertaining TV.
Actually the USGOVT cant sell anything like that to anyone
Well, I agree with you on this. I'm sure if the rest made sense, i'd agree with that too.
I agree on the whole Heinlen quote, however, you must realize that he also wrote Starship Troopers where they ran around in mechanized suits. Also, todays heavy and even some light infantrymen in the US Army do have nifty gadgets like GPS. Even though we have these however, at basic we still use the compass to cheek and center hold methods. It takes some time to plot grid coordinates, and if during that time you could just punch a couple of buttons an get where you were, and where you needed to go, it gives you more time to do important things like worry about security and the lives of the rest of your men.
Where did you get these numbers, btw? Did they include the amounts China and the USSR contributed to North Vietnam?
Jon
All opinions expressed herein are my own, and not those of my employers, who are appalled.
After briefly perusing the comments and finding nothing of a vein similar to this, I will speak my thoughts on the subject. As soon as I read the teaser on /.'s page, I immediately thought, "Those arent JEDIs, theyre BORG..." So what if I'm crossing sci-fis here, thats what they are. A bunch of digitized soldiers.. and we all know that military minds are all like ants anyhow. This just completes the transformation.
I can only presume that the testing and analysis groups will draw two conclusions:
1 - More reliable equipment/software is needed.
2 - Only one soldier per unit should be outfitted as such (ie; radio operator) unless it is a pure intelligence gathering mission (Of course you can still commit overkill here too).
If they do not draw these concluions one can then only presume than any able minded commnader will trash this shit if they are ever commanding real troops in a "real" battle.
nothing excels in every environment
What about GoldenEye? ;-)
"It's tough to be bilingual when you get hit in the head."
(Note: I was studying for my MCSE when I thought of this...actually, I think I had the thing...Ah well, I just did it for the coasters).
Well, if the Trade Federation had followed instructions and installed a Backup Droid Controller (BDC) then they would not have had so many problems when the Primary Droid Controller (PDC) went offline by way of a six year old with Proton Torpedoes.
I hear you groaning, and the Linux nuts coming for my head, so I better go *runs away*.
Is this post not nifty? Sluggy Freelance. Worshi
Not only that, but what about the article regarding the jamming of GPS? Let's make our troops dependent upon easily corruptible information that can, quite possibly, be spoofed and make them shoot at themselves.
That's kinda funny, the US army beaten by a couple of Uber-geeks from sweden with long hair, tee shirts and an understanding of E&M and computers...
"I thought IBM was born with the word..." Stereloab
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
....so, they're going to depend on the whims of a commercial satellite network for "vital" components of the JEDI system? Iridium going belly-up should have given them a giant clue, but i guess not.
Considering that these things run WinCE straight from the Evil Empire, I think they should be called SITH: Soldier's Information and Tactical... um, H-something...
And I quote:
"Crawling through a field in hostile territory, a soldier spots an enemy. What does he do? He might fire up his palmtop computer, pinpoint the
exact GPS coordinates of the foe, and pipe the information over a satellite phone network back to headquarters. "
I have an idea, why dont you just shoot him?
While you are sitting there trying to get CE to work right, said NMY is gonna stick a knife in your ass ala CounterStrike.
I dont even use Roger Wilco anymore when I play CS, its too distracting. Invariably someone comes up and pops me while I am blabbering about an enemy I should be shooting at instead of talking about.
I can see it now, "US Army suffers defeat when the primitive cave men threw dirt in their high tech devices, and beat them with clubs."
-- A Human Being is nothing more than mobile CO2 factory. Bow to the plants.
$30,000 for a palmtop computer, a GPS, Satelite phone and Laser binoculars?
Perhaps whey should add a digital watch and make the cost an even $50,000 per solder.
I guess if you are going to outfit them like borg then Microsoft would be the best software to use.
"If you're compromised, you erase the system, that's easy to do. If worse comes to worse, you could just break it."
It's going to be real hard to erase or break it if your DEAD!
Our military frightens me....
AdFuel
This is just awful! This would make being a soldier totally suck! When the lieutenant sends you off on a recon mission, how are you supposed to go off to the nearest stream, go skinny dipping, sun yourself on a rock, have a smoke, and then go back and pretend you did what you were told when they can track your every movement? This is America dammit! Soldiers have a right, no a God-given DUTY to slack off! Oh the humanity!
-Vercingetorix
"Necessitas non habet legem." -St. Augustine
Yeah, no kidding.
J.E.D.I., huh?
I swear -- they come up with the acronym before they determine what it stands for.
You figure the Army could have asked the Navy about Windows' reliability in mission-critical applications...
Someday, you're going to die. Get over it.
I find it interesting that the army recently switched their website from NT to Mac, because they were dissatisfied with Microsoft's software. http://www.dtic.mil/armylink/news/Sep1999/a1999090 1hacker.html Now say what you want about the macs, but it's odd that now they're going back to MS. Maybe soldiers are more expendible than their website?
One time I threw a brick at a duck.
Again such a rational decision that will lead your country to ... solve WHAT problems? You guys never can have enough weapons, do you?? May the weapon industries be the ever winner! (Again)
This server probably won't be able to handle a full slashdot effect, so be patient...
Seth
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
Gives a really "new" meaning to the blue screen of death, doesn't it ?
Windows has encoutered an error in "Guncordinate.exe".
On the other side I'm pretty sure that you now have every hacker on the planet hopping for this system to go online. Imagine using an exploit to order a bombing raid on your neighbor's house.
Murphy(c)
I always have to wonder about announcements like this. It reminds me of a George Carlin joke (at least I think it was him). He said the best way the military could beat others is to announce a new stealth airplane, but not actually make one. Announce successful tests, deployment, missions, nd jut drive the other military groups crazy trying to find the thing.I can see this being the same. Make sure the JEDI soldier has a definate trackable signal, and then just mass produce something that makes the signal. Anyone tracking them will think there are thousands of the people there.On the other hand, does this mean WinCE and the rest now count as munitions for sale and export? Though I suppose most of us already knew it was a bomb...
There's a great Clarke story about two waring civilisations. One out guns and out techs the other but it loses because it's so caught up with the new technology it doesn't take the time to use ANY of it effectivly.
Anyone remember what it's called? And which book[s] it's in?
Does this mean that George Lucas gets to collect royalties?
And at night, they sleep in threir "Ewok village 2000 (tm)"
Bill Gates is facing the firing squad.
Comander: "Ready, Aim...."
Soldier: "Um, sir the guns are rebooting."
Bill: "Hahaha I knew this day would come so I put my curse on all of your weapons. Muhuhuhahaha..."
"I am an American. You are a sick asshole!!"
This is not insightful, its just windows bashing. what kind of security do these things need??? they all talk via sat. if you want to get into them you either have to hold them in your hand or be able to crack the sat. system. for the former the soldier better have erased the thing before the bad guys got it. in the later the system would have bigger problems than its OS. as far as intercepting the transmisions, what the hell does that have to do with the OS? they are going to be encrypted in some way and any OS can be coded to be able to read the stream if you know how. plus when these things we being designed, mobile linux/BSD most likely didn't even exist! it was either start from scratch or use CE or Palm. Palm just really isn't very good at this sort of thing plus it didn't do color. and CE was right there ready to go, just write the new drivers and the apps. The palmtops are just dumb clients, they send and receive data and if the enemy gets a hold of one intact, then its only a matter of time, no matter what OS is being used before they can crack it. So come on guys, security????? this has nothing to do with security, they aren't running a web server where anyone can push and pull at it all they want!
They say that the military is always preparing for the last war. For the US, that would be (depending on how you juggle definitions) Korea, Vietnam, or Desert Storm. In all of them, the US was fighting an enemy that was vastly inferior technically, but had a huge advantage in manpower and (in Vietnam) terrain.
So we design weapons and tactics based on high-tech doodads that our enemies (presumably) can't duplicate or counter. IMHO, if we ever have to tangle with anybody anywhere near our technological level, we're screwed. Our gold plated hardware would be sitting ducks for AI controlled robots.
A note -- in the report on the Iranian hostage rescue mission (1979? 1980? sorry, don't have the report handy), two of the main problems they found were failures of high-tech equipment (carbon fiber helicopter rotors with built-in crack detection) and micromanagement enabled by high-tech communications.
Welcome to the Turing Tarpit, where everything is possible but nothing interesting is easy.
I seriously doubt that this will work. Simple physics: metabolism produces heat. If it doesn't leave your suit (as thermal radiation) your body temperature starts to rise.
---------------
Fire Your Boss!
IIRC, in Starship Troopers the MI (Mobile Infantry) was able (nay, required) to field strip their own suits. How many of today's soldiers can field strip a palmtop?
--
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
To summarize about a month long discussion on an email list, this whole concept is great, but, among other things, the total weight of the wired solider's gear and weaponry far exceeds what is carried in the field today. The weight will be prohibitive to any useful field activities, including little things like "fighting".
Reliance on per-soldier radio communications means that a wily enemy broadcasting RF interference will foul up the entirety of a field operation.
A captured soldier's gear could potentially also be used for locating fellow corp members. By the enemy. Oh, and don't even bring up biometrics. Lame lame LAME!
-aj.
I have become, comfortably numb
If America is developing a whole array of cool weapons and troops, where are they getting the money? As I see it, they are either pulling it out some slush fund, NASA, or they are cheating americas youth. The second is fine with me, but we need NASA. I am a grown man and I read the newspaper every Sunday. Actually I make it a habit of reading that stupid section, the sudo children's section, that comes with the comics in the Boston Globe. I make it a real habit to see what they are telling america's youth. About three weeks ago, they were advocating taking a whole bunch of money from NASA and re-investing it here on earth. Coincidence? I think not. These JEDI are no more than thiefs from hard working scientists who keep the aliens off our backs so we can eat our Wheaties in Peace.
You could always shield the electronics from giving off stray radiation. Of course this still isn't going to work too well when they are using the satellite phone unless it frequency hops (can satellite phones do that now?). I'm sure they have given some thought to this. The biggest problem will be information overload. The soldier will be getting so much information that they will miss something vital trying to pay attention to everything at once. Fighter pilots have the same problem now and have had it as far back as Vietnam (if not farther). They solve it by shutting down every possible thing they can get away with. Will the troops be able to do that or will they get killed by some bare footed peasent with a AK-47 who isn't trying to pay attention to a monitor? What happens if the system crashes? What happens if the enemy breaks into the system and starts running through it and giving false commands? They could re-direct your artillery and air strikes onto your troops as well as feeding all kinds of bad information through the network. It's a good idea and I hope it get's implemented correctly but considering what they chose for the operating system (assuming they aren't just using it for prototype) I'm not going to hold my breath.
Interesting. We in America are worried about you in the UK, since we've had to spill our blood to save your bacon twice in this century (yes, I'm one of those anal-retentive types who still considers this to be the 20th). You're welcome. If we didn't have to keep rescuing and defending you, maybe we wouldn't have as much need for a military. Your opinions will start to count when you can win your own wars against something other than a third-world banana republic. Or, radical thought, avoid the developments that lead to war in the first place. Meanwhile, we're going to build the baddest force we can for the next time you pacifists are staring across the channel at an invading army. By the way, I agree with you about Kosovo. The 'hundreds of thousands' of victimes of 'ethnic cleansing' have shrunk and shrunk to the point where it's clear that it was a complete lie. Many of us tried to get rid of the guy responsible, but didn't succeed. So watch out for the next scandal, world. No one is safe when B.C. needs a distraction. As for the nice folks who won in Vietnam, tell the thousands of ethnic Chinese who perished in their seagoing Final Solution what evil bastards the Americans are.
Yes, yes, we're heard this before.
Back when I was in, the Army equipped a maneuver brigade with all the latest goo-gags and sent them down to the National Training Center at Ft. Irwin. This was the early to mid 90s.
They got trounced, but then everyone gets trounced at Ft. Irwin.
After all the AARs (after action reviews) they discovered that the EXFOR (Expiramental Force) didn't get trounced nearly as bad as the thought, which translated to: they did pretty well.
However, it was also noted that all that high-tech gear really sucked in the desert - it broke... a lot. Quite often the command structure had to drop the digital equipment and wip out the grease pencils and map overlays and fight the "old fashioned" way.
In short the Army basically said: (my words) Neat stuff, works OK, has problems though, maybe next time.
Too bad you can't camp the railgun respawn point in real life...
--
linuxisgood:~$ man woman
Restating the obvious since nineteen aught five.
Do you remember the good old days when something had a long name so you made an acronym so it was easier to say/remember and if it happened to be cool all the better? Strange how things change, huh? Jason J.ust A.nother S.illy and O.bvious N.uance
This is my PocketPC. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My PocketPC is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it, as I must master my life. Without me my PocketPC is useless. Without my PocketPC, I am useless. I must boot my PocketPC true. I must hack faster than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must hack him before he hacks me. I will. Before God I swear this creed. My PocetPC and myself are defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. We are the saviours of my life. So be it .. . until there is no enemy ... but peace. Amen. Good night ladies!
Wait just a minute let me get this straght. There not going to dress Alec Guinness in combat boots?! Damn!
Kewl, do you think this means soldiers will be made open source soon? Just think of the advantages! (trying to avoid a dodgy joke about secure Colonel) But think of it this way, could you stand to see a military van with the Lucasarts logo on the side? I think not. Enditallnow
I dunno, the Iraqis didn't even have night vision (in 1991).
I think that unless we're (er, the US Army) fighting a "first world" country, the threat of "counter technology" isn't as high as you (or I) may assume. Doesn't mean it's not there at all, just probably not on the scale to make a decicive difference.
Heh. Only the U.S. Army would invent Imperial Stormtrooper outfits (technological, mechanized, evil) and refer to them as JEDI (mystical, organic) forces.
More efficient high-tech killers, better suited to take more human lifes quicker... Thats what all the high-tech is ultimately for, right? It is sad that /. in fact seems to be excited about all this.
Can anyone say EMP. Of course the system will be hardened against such vulnerablilties.
I woke up this morning, I was feeling kind of high, it was me, Jesus Christ and Haile Salassie I.
Good points. The only dangers they mention in the article are communication jamming or capture of a JEDI unit by the enemy. Those are legit concerns as well, and they address them by saying Eubank thinks future soldiers can prevent the enemy from acquiring the JEDI software. That is putting a lot of faith in "future soldiers." They do mention that the units can be erased in an emergency, but I would guess that there is not always time for that when one is being captured...
It depends on your definition of success. The Viet Cong and North Vietnamese Army took far more casualties than the U.S. Army. The Viet Cong were all but destroyed in the Tet Offensive. It was North Vietnamese Army regulars who conquered the south.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
Okay wise guy, what happens when Iraq Virtually beats the USA, thereby claiming kuwait's oil resources?
do you think we aren't going to bomb Iraq off the face of the earth? Get real. The whole point of fighting is that it's what happens when someone gets pissed off enough. Aggression is built into our ape-descended brains. It isn't going away. And IF it ever does, I'll be there with a shotgun :)
"A witty saying proves nothing." -Voltaire
"A witty saying proves nothing." ~Voltaire
"d'Oh!" ~Homer
and they're left with nothing but 50lbs of useless scrap to lug around... :)
Excuse me, but I am somewhat disgusted, that there are so few posts (count 'em on one hand) in any way critical about another "let's kill people" and those weren't even rated up!. I thought after Vietnam the US would be more critical about its military. At least at Slashdot I thought I would have found some decent folks that believe in peace and at least include in some posts some awarenes about new technology first used for war (see nuclear bombs) or warfare becoming a computer game. I guess you need a war on your own soil this century to understand what it really means. (I still can't believe counting more than 10 posts joking about the bluescreen of death) And you guys have the greatest military power in the world: That is the scariest thing to me.
Frightened and disgusted.
I'll accept the concept of outfitting troops with high tech interfaces suitable for the modern battlefield. But I'm wondering about some things. The enemy (presuming we're fighting a war against a modern army) will have radio detection capabilities. One of the things you didn't do when I was in the army was use your radio for long transmissions, or it might invite artillary fire on your coordinates (even back then! and the detectors are faster now). I hope they have a way to avoid detection of their electronics transmissions.
Gonzo
Waitaminute. On one hand you are complaining about over equiping the soldier causing information overload, and on the other you have an enemy who is carrying IR and RF detecting equipment? Directional too, i guess? What, are we attacking people with their local radio shack strapped on their back?
Mabey your luddite knee-jerk reaction is poorly thought out. I appreciate the idea that another person aiming at me from my own side would have his gun tell him I am friendly, rather than finding that out at a later time. Using a computer with GPS will help eliminate map reading screwups. They happen frequently. (d-day ring a bell?)
All firing is still mechanical, and all the artillery still has manual sighting in case of computer failure. You can always shut things down and go back to buisness as usual.
Speeding never killed anyone. Stopping did.
No light sabers? No Laser Guns?
Come on, this is another showing of the us government having it's heads up it's collective ass. Don't call it JEDI until it's Jedi damnit. When will they learn?
Boycotting the US Government until they learn
SgtPepper
The preceeding was an attempt at humour, feel free to ignore it
I don't completely disagree. Ageis (sp?) cruisers sitting dead because of a computer failure should put the fear of god into anyone depending upon these things. But by the same token the US's wiz bang (emphasis on bang) toys have for the most part worked quite well. Iraq, Yugo, etc. The US population has forgotten what war is like and does not have the stomache (thankfully) for it. These toys (oops I mean weapons) are the way they sell their adgenda to the citizens -- they make great tv. And for the most part keep the rest of the world worried enough not to push it too hard when the sabers are rattled.
My name is not spam, it's patrick
Home Automation & Linux -- now I know I'm a geek
Yesterday there was an article about the WinCE base PocketPC and everyone kept pointing out how often these crashed, including C|Net
So today the US military decides that they should use these same WinCE systems for the "wired soldier." Does anyone else smell the impending doom here?
The US Government was the largest Iridium
customer/partner.
There were 12 downlink stations around the
world. Most were owned by Iridium Operating
Companies who were partners of Iridium. This was
to bypass all the national laws around the
world. In other words the downlink in China
was owned and operated by a Chinese company.
BTW, this is were one of the the illegal chinese
technology transfers occured.
The US Gov't owned and operated the 12th downlink
in Hawaii. This was for Spooks and Grunts.
-- I am not a fanatic, I am a true believer.
Please...the army exsists for one reason and one reason alone...TO BUFF(spl?) FLOORS... They are the only organization on the planet that will wax a non-wax floor, then when it gets screwed up, strip it down, re-polish it and try again In the army you buff, the Navy you mop and in the Air Force they polish... America has the largest floor cleaning force in the entire world!!!
====
Crudely Drawn Games
Hmmm, yeah... that would work... It's only what $66 Million dollars?
Not only is it expensive, the concept of the US Government "selling services to phone companies around the world", doesn't sound right. I'm not sure on the legality of it, but it isn't right for the government to get involved in business in such a way.
The DoD has a big push for COTS (commercial off-the-shelf) technology. Not too long ago, the DoD had everything custom built, even if there was a cheap and effective alternative already available. Because of procurement reforms as part of an effort to lower defense spending, the DoD is under pressure to use commerical products whenever possible. From the description of the system, it seems obvious that they were under pressure to use as much COTS technology as possible. As the article stated, however, this is experimental. It's not like they've order 100,000 of these things and will start handing them out tomorrow.
Sounds like your typical sysadmin. Perhaps the Navy will start recruiting in the valley soon?
Now it will be easer to find him.
May your soul reach heaven before the devil realizes you are dead
Mmmph. A GPS. A cell phone. WinCE. A JEDI needs not these things.
"This is your world. These are your people. You can live for yourself today, or help build tomorrow for everyone."
<sigh>
Bureaucrats...
(8-DCS)
I have a book with a title something like "Way of the warrior" that talked at length about the jedi project where they were trying to develop way out there stuff like remote viewing and super reflexes. I read it like 3 or 4 years ago so I don't remember a lot of it. I remember they had positive experiments using positive thinking and visualization techniques to improve target scores using .45 caliber one handed. Most of it was way out there stuff. So the use of technology to augment has been around as long as technology. In fact, much like gamers and scientists tend to be ones pushing computer power. The military often tries to push technology as well. If I recall correctly the internet was a DARPA project initially. Paul Sundling
It's probably more familiar to their audience, from formulaic movies/TV. I'm not a firearms guru, so can't claim for sure that it IS a (scoped?) AK, but it sure doesn't look like either an M16 or its futuristic replacement.
Even if they knew better, it's quite possible they didn't care. Reporters tend to gloss over such "minor details" as semi/fully- automatic, anyway.
Only the dead have seen the end of war.
"Use the force Luke!"
So Luke switches off the damn thing and blows the Death Star out of existence! Hey! Even a JEDI knows that! Why doesn't the Army?
Who comes up with these names? Let's keep Star Wars in the realm of imagination, please...
to err is human, to forgive is divine, to forget is... umm...
Issue one of this to every soldier, with a fill copy of the bible attached (A old fashioned paper bible, not electronic form built in) Said soldier puts device/bible in front shirt pocket and is proected from bullets going through his heart, and the army doesn't have to serprate the christian soldier (which is protected by the bible) from the geek soldier (who is protected by the electronic device)
Really why must people die to settle wars?
In this day and age do this:
Get a 3rd party to be 'Ref'
setup a virtual battle based on each country's current military power.
Go through the virtual battle and the luser hands over his real weapons.
Oh - wait you think someone would try and hack that???
Well, I think there's a dose of reality in this news story some where.
I too, as an Army combat engineer had an M16(A1) and a shovel. (That shovel made me an engineer versus a grunt).
All that technology that the US Army is playing with (I hope) not really near term stuff. I mean for the longest time Armies were against those unreliable, inaccurate automatic feed rifles but today I challenge you to find a (modern) Army that doesn't use automatic weapons.
> Given, also, that my main tool - my weapon -
> was fragile and sensitive to even the most
> minor of abuses that occur in the field
Yeah, they suck with blanks, you should try real bullets in them, they work much better then .
Resistance is Futile. You will be assimilated. You will do more before 9AM than other lifeforms do all day. Tiredness is irrelevant. Be all that We can be. Contact your local assimilation center today!
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
#2: When you're as big an outfit as the US military, you don't need to build a new system from consumer products; you can do it better and cheaper (and hella secreter) if you spec and build it yourself. Do you think the NSA does they're decrypting on a giant beowulf of x86's running NT or TurboLinux somewhere? 0f f**king course not. Even the frogs (i'm part French so can the flames) have enough clue to build a custom system, albeit from high-grade (read Alpha) consumer processors; I'm under the impression that the NSA has custom DES-cracking chips in their crypto supercomputers (I don't have any proof, but if i did i'd prolly be dead in 10 minutes anyways ;)
#3: The name JEDI is a dead giveaway that something's fishy here. Ever heard of Reagan's "Star Wars" initiative? The project was impossible from the start because in the day, creating the estimated minimum 2 million lines of code, cleanly enough to direct something as precise and dangerous as a satellite anti-missile system, was NOT POSSIBLE. Reagan was informed of this, apparently he didn't care. This falls in the same category, not because the names come from the same fictional work but rather because they are both obviously foolish tasks to anyone who has a working concept of what's involved in making it work.
So why is the DOD doing this? I have a couple guesses, listed in increasing likeliness IMHO:
a) It's a big PR stunt. The DOD is trying to impress either US citizens, or scare foreign militaries. Since the latter are probably laughing their asses off right now, I'd say the former is a little more likely. Maybe they are just trying to drum up some semicomputer literates, who are just gung-ho (or dumb) enough to run through a battlefield with $30K in useless equipment (or worse than useless, since it isn't weightless).
b)Our government wants to see how effective a force a smaller government could field with off the shelf mobile computers. Still unlikely because any smart government (read, any other government) would have enough sense to run OpenBSD at the very least, if not build their own in house solution from *BSD linux scratch whatever. Do you think the Viet Cong would have chosen winCE? hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
c) Advanced research. The D0D really thinks winCE is great, and that microsoft can and will provide military-grade security in the first place and support in the second place. The article is true, not misinformation; I find this unlikely but possible. hey, stranger things have happened and even the military may still be lagging the way the FBI did in the 80's when they started trying to catch phreakerz. Unlikely but possible.
d) Our government actually Doesn't have its head up its ass, they're only outfitting like 2 guys with the lamed out CE vests, but last year they finally perfected their BSD based vests, and now they need a cover story. As a bonus, enemy crackerz will think they are hacking a lame win system, and if they are just script kidz they won't get past the decoy defenses. Meanwhile the BSD JEDI ('s?) will already have kicked Saddam's sorry ass for the 90th time.
e) Bill Gates is fronting the entire operation, hardware, software, even hired ex-US military mercernaries, just to showcase winCE. The troops will never see combat, and assignment to the JEDI corps will replace KP and using your toothbrush to make those latrines shine like a drill seargents' boots. Honestly possible, however silly it may seem; Bill has tons of money that may not be worth anything soon (ms stock) so why not spend it on silly things that might make some slight difference?
I honestly don't know which is more likely d) or e), but this is /. so the order was inevitable. However dumb the military may be, their purpose remains to fight and die to protect the sovereignty (sp?) of the US and it's colonies err i mean strategic third world partners. I really don't think that this is for real because when it comes down to it, they don't enjoy throwing american lives away frivolously. Obvious PR/coverup or both. thank you drive through.
"A witty saying proves nothing." -Voltaire
"A witty saying proves nothing." ~Voltaire
"d'Oh!" ~Homer
That our proposal for a Linux/Slash-based system was turned down by the Pentagon. We called it the General Reference Information & Tactical System. I guess JEDI sounded better.
Information wants to be free -- but informants want to be paid.
Did anyone else notice that the rifle in the CNN graphic is a Russian made K alashnikov (either AK-47 or AK-74)?
-JeremyH
Heh.
"Free your mind and your ass will follow"
Lucasfilm, Ltd. vs. US Department of Defense...
See the landmark trademark dilution suit that has Washington on its heels!
See a team of Lucasfilm lawyers impersonate Wookies!
See a President beholden to Hollywood interests utter "Let the Wookie win!"
A long time ago on a West Portico far away... a B-movie actor escaped the evil clutches of Hollywood and became President of the Galactic Republic, or a reasonable facsimile thereof. Ever since that time, the Department of Defense has been obsessed with stealing Lucasfilm's trademarks, from "Star Wars" to "Jedi". So, hiding in their outpost off the sixth exit of the Marin system, a team of Lucasfilm lawyers are preparing a counterattack....
This is my opinion and my opinion only. Incidentally, IANAL.
MOO;IANAL.
There used to be a picture linked here.
The military is a machine. Soldiers are the "commodity components". Giving soldiers expensive, breakage-prone, training-intensive, high-tech gear is going to have on of two effects:
1) Raise the cost of running the military without substantially raising it's effectiveness. Think of the people you knew in high school who were joining the Army because they didn't know what else to do. Now give that person a palmtop, a GPS and a 24 hours to find their ass. Come pick up any pieces that remain tomorrow.
2) Give the military a false sense of unbeatability: "Gentlemen, we are the best-equipped fighting force in the world." Yeah, until 3 guys with AK-47s in Jeeps come knock down your satellite transceivers. When your GPS-dependent droids don't know which way is north, it's unlikely they'll come running to your aid.
It has been proven over and over again (from the Goths to the American Revolution to Vietnam) that distributed, guerilla-style fighting is less fragile (and thus usually more successful) than centralized, top-down fighting. This money could be better spent teaching soldiers how to navigate via astronomy (with a homemade sextant) and some memory-enhancement and "fast math" skills (to replace the palmtop).
--
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
Perhaps the government should look into purchasing Iridium and using it to both transfer military use transmissions and earn some money back by selling services to phone companies around the world. For once the military might could pay for its own satellites.
Bad Mojo
Bad Mojo
"If you can't win by reason, go for volume." -- Calvin
It would make more sense, IMHO, for LiPalm to be a battery. :-)
JEDIs can throw used/dead batteries at enemies, burn them for heat, ad infinitum!
If being used as heat, then the phrase "I love the smell of LiPalm in the morning" would make even more sense!
.... I had, as an infantryman, exactly one job: wait around until told to go somewhere and kill the enemy. I had one tool: Uncle Sam gave me an M16A2, for use the said job (sure, I had others, but that was what my main tool was).
Lets not forget, I believe it was Heinlen, who basically said "The more gadgets you load a grunt down with, the easier it is for someone to walk up and bash his head in with a rock". See above; my life as an infantryman was simple and uncomplicated. I can bet you I was much more effective than anyone trying to locate map points w/ a PDA and calling for help on a cell phone. We relied on maps, and each other. Primitive, huh.
Given, also, that my main tool - my weapon - was fragile and sensitive to even the most minor of abuses that occur in the field, do they really think something like a PDA and a CELL PHONE are going to survive a grunt's life?
ZOMG I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS ON MACINTOSH VERSUS WINDOWS, VI VERSUS EMACS, AND HOW YOU'RE NOT A DORK
Seems like a lot more stuff to break/malfunction. What ever happend to the good old days of lining up and fire vollies at eachother.... memories.......
:-)
But seriously, what advantage does this give the JEDI? Not they will have to spend all their time reading displays. I think raido is the most advanced tool a troop should have. All the other toys are for the top brass.
If only they had light sabers... hmmm...
Rion
It would be much better if they were running Linux. I think they should make their own distro and call it LiPalm (as in: "I love the smell of LiPalm in the morning")
kwsNI
MIA
KIA
POW
GPF
human://billy.j.mabray/
"Every good system has a backup." -- Dale Hanchey
http://www.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/03/21/hacke r.take.over.idg/index.html Imagine how easy it would be to fake data, showing US troops as enemy units. This is just a plain old bad idea. Armies and Machines of war in general are bad ideas, but this takes it to a whole new level....
sig not found
The track record for MS products in use by the US military:
- Left a navy ship stranded for several days
- Allowed the army's Web site to be repeatedly hacked
The track record for Windows CE
- All previous iterations have been slow
- All previous iterations have been unstable
- Most new versions of Microsoft products are general buggy and unreliable
I'd seen preliminary reports about this a couple years back in Time of all places, and more extensive stuff in a Pop. Mech. article even earlier. I suspect the PM article was just speculative, but the Time article purported to have some basis in fact. Especially interesting was Aliens-style video feeds from grunt helmets and rifles, better body-armor, HUDs in helmets etc. There was some speculation about FOF systems in the infantry weapon. The ideal would be solid state machines in a hard plastic coating, which would be very resiliant to damage, and predictably stable. The idea that they'd be using WinCE is ludicrous. I don't doubt it for a minute, granted. I worked as a coder for the Navy as an internship, and I know the sort of code they turn out. (We were folding 15 year old ForTran into new C routines. No one who could follow the math in the old routines was cleared to look at them.) Finally, it seems like the military brass are the ultimate PHBs. "Luminous beings are we. Not this crude matter" - Yoda.
IP is just rude.
Is there any torture so subl
Just Enother Dumb Icronym..no...
Just Everyone Don't Imbibe..no...
Jamaica: Everyone's Deliciously Invited..no...
Justice Enhancing Device: Information..no...
Julius the Eskimo Denies Inhalation..no...
Let's just hope the Pentagon is not as stupid as the Trade Federation. Otherwise they'll put all their battlefield CCC&I on one satellite like those idiots... and watch a whole battalion of "JEDI" stumble around blindly (well, at least they aren't droids, yet) when it goes down....
#include "disclaim.h"
"All the best people in life seem to like LINUX." - Steve Wozniak
#include "disclaim.h"
"All the best people in life seem to like LINUX." - Steve Wozniak
The U.S. Army JEDI soldier concept is describing, perfectly, the typical gun-owning Slashdot reader. Why don't they just recruit Slashdot readers instead?
Eric Raymond is of course a logical fit for commander of the JEDI forces too.
-- ken williams
. . . This is my keyboard. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My keyboard is my best friend. It is my life. Without me, my keyboard is useless. Without my keyboard, I am useless . . .
'I ain't a liar, baby, and I ain't proud I just want what I'm not allowed.' -- Violent Femmes, 36-24-36
"These are not the humvees you are looking for."
Your Working Boy,
I hope those palm pilots are *very* durable...In the years I spent in the infantry we found an infinte number of ways to break any piece of gear we were given...The sad thing is that most of it was pretty durable stuff...I can't imagine the shell you'd have to put this glorified palm-pilot into to resist the conditions of field life... Total submersion in water and/or mud 100lbs of gear falling onto it Extremes of heat/cold Dust and Dirt in *every* imaginable oriface And most importantly: Bored grunts who know nothing Stupid Leutienants who know everything That better be on hell of a case...
Soldier1: That's it.. Jim's dead. Never had a chance.
Soldier2: What happened? What was the cause of death?
Soldier1: Blue Screen.
BilldaCat