Slashdot Mirror
Classic Browsers Given New Life
randomErr writes: "Recently a new site opened up that shows these youngsters how we had to surf in the old days. Deja Vu.org pulls a given URL and filters out the tags according to what was viewable by your chosen browser. Just for kicks take a look at how Slashdot.org looks on Netscape 0.9 and IE 2.0" Very fun -- the timeline is interesting reading, too. It's like a trip down Memory Lane. Or something.
Short answer.. we don't! Ok I generalise a lot and some other more professional designers will no doubt give their own answer. But I do get paid and part of my work involves designing html for the web, and I gotta admit I just have a look on the lastest versions of IE and Netscape (which can both be installed on the same PC).
A lot of sites these days stipulate a minimum browser requirement.
I use style sheets extensively, and although that means older browsers won't render as I see the pages, it does mean they'll have a pretty good go at making the page readable. The pages have more syntactic meaning and less layout code, which is a "good thing".
What a great idea! This could be a whole genre in itself, like classic gaming! Think of the possibilities: Software that slows your computer down so you can see what it would have been like to run Unreal on a 286
Such software already exists; I don't remember URLs now, but many of the old games are rather unplayable without software that slows things down a bit...
Everyone who makes generalizations should be shot.
I can remember 4 years ago, when I first got on the Internet. I was using my Performa 400 which was ancient as far as everyone else was concerned. I didn't have much money, so I used what I got. I had a 2400 bps modem, then got a 14.4 as a gift from a friend. I had Netscape 2.02. It fit nicely on my 80 meg drive, and into the 8 MB of RAM I had. It worked flawlessly for the most part, and displayed more pages perfectly fine.
Then I was stupid and I installed IE 3.x, and my system never worked right until I reinstalled MacOS 7.5.5 from scratch.
I didn't have browser integration, I didn't have active desktop. I had my telnet client, which I used for everything from mail to usenet to lynx on large pages and I had my ftp client.
I miss those days quite a bit, and this helps me relive them a bit. Regardless of how some people say how good new technology and this and that is good, sometimes simplicity is the best...
Why did I write this? I dont know, just felt like making an interesting comment on how I used to do things.
Brielle
http://web.cnam.fr/ImageWWW, I think
I remember all of us reloading the page over and over again from a friends machine (wintermute), so that he would show up on top of the active users list.
I remember when you had to go to Jenni's house to watch her fuck.
Kong
--
Shoot, a fella' could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff.
The internet 10 years ago...wait! Al Gore wasn't Vice President then! How could the internet be around?!?!
This is the mirror of one of the early Mosaic demos, showing off multimedia capabilities.
http://www.totic.org/nscp/demodoc/demo. html
IIRC Gopher wasn't a search engine, just a precursor to the WWW. Gopher did have a search engine named Veronica though....
Syllable : It's an Operating System
I wish we _could_ go back to NS2 or whatever. The web has never been a very tidy place, but it is becoming almost uninhabitable unless you use IE5, which I refuse to do on principle. If that means I get cut off entirely so be it...
--
% of Lynx-using public: 0.01%.
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
am I the only one that thinks Slashdot looks better in Mosaic?
Cool indeed, but can it convert a website into a Gopher site?
=P
Oh God. I just looked at my website with the Lynx viewer. Ouch. That'll teach me not to substitute paragraphs with line breaks...
...back to the markup, time to do some corrections.
I know I write simple code, but geez, even in line-mode my site works and is readable. Granted, you don't get that it's in a table until 2.0, but the pages still work. http://www.pdxnet.net/bands/ - Portland, Oregon Bands Pages - since 1998
Love 'em all and let God sort 'em out...
Losing a great deal of the other HTML features modern sites use would be enough to make me switch immediately (hell, it was enough to make me switch to netscape 2 in '96...)
- A.P.
--
"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
Last one from me...
I got my IRQ values muddled up for my modem and my mouse when I got my first modem up and running. It actually worked OK - but only as long as I kept the mouse moving!
Move mouse - stream of packets!
Stop moving mouse - no packets!
"Give the anarchist a cigarette"
A little planning goes a long way...
That is amazingly accurate except for one thing:
Mosaic 1.0 did not render jpegs. It put an
NCSA logo box in their place.
The URL is right, but the link is wrong.
... or from the parent.
/nutt
Click here, or copy and paste it here: http://finnegan.metamatrix.se/dejavu/
There's another mirror up on http://www.goatse.cx
witty sig goes here
Can't beat reading slashdot in black on a black background. Shame the links aren't in black.
Well if you really want to know how it was 'in the old days' (TM) you can slide over to Evolt.org and download your own copy of these ancient browsers. It's much more fun.
Similarly, as you say, many sites stipulate a browser version/s - this is appalling, as the dejavu site demonstrates.... I've already updated one site I manage which had no <NOFRAMES> option.
So I guess I was asking more serious designers :-)
Didn't know you could stipulate install directories for IE, though - whenever I've upgraded it it's just gone off and done its own thing - ie, replaced the previous version - and it refuses to install an older version when a newer version is already installed....
Author, Shell Scripting : Expert Re
Pray, have you disabled javascript? That usually is enough to put the smack down on web "designers" who think they know what my browser should look like better than I do.
Hell, I'm browsing with lynx right now and it's not bad at all... Slashdot loads quick, without all those silly graphics.
To mail me, take out the hoopie, dammit.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
And the poor little site is already slashdotted..
I was investigating legacy browsers, downloading them as I went. What I found is that IE 2.0 was actually marketted as IE 3.0 to catch up to Netscape 3.0 at the time. I wish I could find that damn URL to prove it ...
rLowe
PS> Ain't it ironic that now NS is skipping 5 to go to 6?? Only diff is that NS5 code actually existed, and they just scrapped it.
----- rL
That wouldn't help either, since many of the browser emulators use JavaScript to imitate the functions of various buttons and widgets in the windows. The way they launch is a JavaScript method, even.
I keep JavaScript turned on -- it enables various web sites to function, both for good and for evil.
For more information, click here.
Don't know if it's because the server is being slashdotted or what, but what I get for both Mosaic and IE 2 is a 500 error ... which means that some things haven't changed *too* much =)
"Oh, I hope he doesn't give us halyatchkies," said Heinrich.
I have always wondered if a complete browser emulating site exists. This site may remove HTML tags that were not supported, but no removal of tags does justice to what the newer versions of IE and NS do to pages... it can't be explained by the compiance/non-compliance of these browsers. Things like pixel level space, how the browsers react to buggy code, etc.
;)
My ideal brower emulation site would return a gif/jpeg that shows the page *exactly* the way it would appear in the browser... including dithering of images and pixel level accuracy. It would be a great tool for those of use who have IE5 and can't get back down the road we came from.
All I want to know is that when I click The Internet I can browse the web and I don't care what a saddo like you has to holler about technical shite that no-one but a bunch of socially inept geeks such as yourself cares about.
Right, why doesn't the mouse listen to my commands. Better call Microsoft techsupport...
This comment is posted from dejavu, emulating Mosaic. Freaky.. What's a few Karma points for a trip down memory lane. :)
-- What you do today will cost you a day of your life.
well I recommend everybody I know to phone Microsoft tech support for the most trivial of problems, the more revenue that Microsoft can create and the more we can get it to grow, the sooner we can rid the computing world of these whinging nerds who, at the end of the day, are not very clever at all and with luck will be their own downfall. This was all demonstrated by xhost forgetting to mention(meaning he is not intelligent enough to know about) X11 or uucp which precursed tcp/ip(which Andreeson is rightly credited with, by you) as the Internet. Still who cares anyway, luckily Microsoft runs it all now and where is Netscape?!! haha! Please people do what you can to end Linux and promote Microsoft. Rod Munch Leader of the Official Gnome Crashed My PC Fan Club.
Makes you wonder which OS it runs, since my connection comes trough without problem, but I just get an 'Internal server error' or something
Every expression is true, for a given value of 'true'
That sounds alot like the ROLM phone system at Virginia Tech. Each dorm room had ONE extension, which included a digital phone and a 19,200kb serial line. You had to enter commands like "c 53223" to connect to another station. It was possible to set up a SLIP connection by connecting to a special connection they set up. This system led to the proliferation of warez BBS's like you wouldn't believe
Unfortunately, there was no way to connect a real modem to the system to dial outside, and the University only had 2400 baud dialouts. I made a "J-box" which connected to the handset jack and allowed you to connect a conventional phone and/or modem. We were able to get 14.4k dialout that way. (this was in 1992).
Server Error
This server has encountered an internal error which prevents it from fulfilling your request. The most likely cause is a misconfiguration. Please ask the administrator to look for messages in the server's error log.
This is a lot like Slashdot looks NOW.
--
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
neither of the links work.
For my personal site, this is the approach I took. I tried doing this with a company site, but Netscrape's f*cked-up handling of CSS (even in v4.x, which is inexcusable) necessitated the creation of a second, parallel site that would display acceptably in Netscrape. (How many sites do you know that are perfectly viewable in Lynx, but give Netscrape fits? To see how an HTML 4.01- and CSS1-compliant site looks in Netscrape, try this link.)
Fortunately, a makefile and some sed and awk scripts do the conversion automatically...I still have only one source tree to maintain for the site.
_/_
/ v \
(IIGS( Scott Alfter (remove Voyager's hull # to send mail)
\_^_/
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
Once the /. effect is over, I plan to use this for testing html ...it's a pain to create pages and try to test them using as many browsers as poss....
I've never fathomed how professional website designers check out their work on, say, IE2, IE3, IE4, IE5 without using 4 different PCs
Just curious, anybody out there know how the pro's do it? Or how they run multiple browser versions?!
Author, Shell Scripting : Expert Re
The Homepage of Edinburgh Univeristies Computing Department.
Leading the world in research in Speech technology, Bioinformatics, Cognitive science and other such leading fields - I challenge you to spot any differences between how their webpage renders in Netscape 1.0 and IE 5.5.
Amaya is still around nowadays, and is still the w3c's testbed.
New life doesn't seem to be an appropriate term. IMHO, Undead might be more fitting. [After all, it doesn't bring them back to life, it just looks that way]
-={(Astynax)}=-
-={(Astynax)}=-
"Darkness beyond Twilight"
The other way of doing this of course, is simply to download and install the appropriate browser from the evolt.org browser archive at http://browsers.evolt.org/.
"Give the anarchist a cigarette"
A little planning goes a long way...
Well, It's at least open for a while. (Check out this). I guess someone will hide that soon?
Or at least put up some mirrors.
Straight up text mode surfing <& largely unformatted text at that> U. of Syracuse public 'web' servers circa 1989. I think I got rid of my account in '98
Hey !
....remember when All the Gophers in the World meant something?
IE 5? Worst browser I've ever used (the fact that it doesnt like my firewall has something to do with it)
Netscape 4.7? Slowest piece of...........
Mozilla? Don't even get me started
Gopher? luxury, we used to have to telnet to the web server to read web pages - using IP addresses only, because we couldn't waste bandwidth by using DNS.
We used to have to get up at 8:30, half an hour before we'd gone to bed to make sure that nobody else was using the server at the same time.
As for e-mail, you kids have it so easy; we used to send morse code over the BNC cable and the if recipient could decode it we were lucky..
Steve
---
I remember it being on akebono.stanford.edu but don't remember if it was the top level page or /yahoo.
Does anyone else remember that browser?
I think it was the last of the "1" series before v2 introduced frames (and tables? - no, I think that was in v1).
I think I still have the floppys for a Windows 3.1 install for that. It ran really well on my 386DX40...
I remember the Netscape beta releases - hearing stories about how we couldn't get them in Australia because the servers were too overloaded for mirroring.
Then, when v1 came out, we figured out a way to set up the destops on the uni machines to use one of the lectures proxys and give us external access, and everyone downloaded it. Ahh.... makes me feel like I've been around for ever, and I'm only 25.
IE 2 was a completely different beast than IE3. Install an old copy of Win95 OSR1 or any copy of WinNT 4. Then you'll see IE 2. IE 2, in a word, sucked. IE 3 was MUCH better. It had the integrated Mail/News app that eventually became Outlook Express.
Actually there's an interesting tidbit about IE 3 that most people don't know. Remember Microsoft Bob? Well, around 1996, the Bob programming team were hard at work for Bob 2.0 for Windows 95 (why? I have no idea), and NS 3.0 had just come out. Microsoft needed a capable browser, and they needed one FAST, because they were pretty much taken by surprise by the explosion of the Internet. Well, ol' Billy G himself walked into the offices where the Bob programmers were and basically said "Stop what you're doing right now. We're scrapping Bob 2.0. Your new job is IE 3.0."
Six months later... IE3 was born.
It amazed me how much power he had within the company when I read that.
Later,
-Kevin, MCSE+I/MCT
My posts don't reflect the opinion of my employer, and my employer's opinion doesn't influence the content of my posts.
I tried to visit CNN.com, but it promptly reloaded and overrode the frames, also making IE 5.5 (my browser) render it. Apparently CNN is one of many sites that forces itself out if loaded in a frameset. I guess it's done to prevent typo sites loading it in a full-page frame, among other things.
For more information, click here.
The old copies of Mosaic were never taken off of NCSA's FTP server You can find them here. This is a little more complete than Evolt.org since it includes the Unix binaries along with source for several versions. Don't forget to pick up your copy of NCSA HTTPD while you're there!
i remember old internet browsers - they were all just fields in those days.
but really, i remember back in the 70s when all we could do was look up a book to see if it was in some library in California. not much good when you're at uni in england, but hey.
---
I used Mosaic for a long time, until 1995 or so, mainly because it was the only browser available for DECStations with ULTRIX. But after that I started using Netscape on Sun boxen instead (Tables in webpages! Woohoo!). I just wanted to say that I still think the spinning icon in the top-right corner of the browser should be the one that stops loading the page... I can't remember how many times I clicked on the "N" icon in Netscape and got sent to their homepage, when I just wanted to stop the page loading. After some time of that, I noticed that Netscape had a separate "stop" button, but it took long to get used to.
Maybe they should put a windows emulator up there, I might be able to type out my CV in word emulation and finish it before the application or the OS crashes.
Now, guys, no matter how good an idea this is, do not delay shipping Mozilla for it. We've been down that path... :)
Now the big question -- anyone got MacOS X Server or GNUStep to bring this into the 21st century? I got a website that would love to have a functional copy of the very first browser.
http://www.geocities.com/connorbd/dustydeck
/Brian
Actually, I have to say that /. looks much better in old-style HTML; the only real problem is that the primitive HTML formatting tends to make it look a bit garbled up top.
Actually, I might just add a graphic to my own web pages... they're almost pure text and won't break on anything at all (though the odd graphic is a jpeg). Mosaic-enhanced? I wish... /Brian
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
I forgot that HTML compresses large numbers of spaces. Funny how life has changed.
D
----
and stop letting lawyers run your life.
Its another things to have classic video games...
Its even not that bad to prefer an old DOS-based word processor or even something like AppleWorks over the modern MS Word...
But a classic browser? Now don't get me wrong, I enjoy a bit of nostalgia just as much as the next hacker, but the only thing that these old browsers show us is how few features we had and how non-compliant the code was. Yes, this is part of the attraction I guess, but I wouldn't go to anything before Netscape 3.0 simply because the earlier versions were just as good as Gopher, with the few exceptions of images.
For anyone who browsed the internet in 1993 using NCSA Mosaic (gawd that thing crashed if you sneezed!), the experience is historical but hardly could hold a candle to what the minimum was three years ago.
I guess what I'm saying is that I'm all about MAME/MESS and experiencing old software for the nostalgia value, but old browsers just don't seem to fit into the category.
--
Never hit your grandmother with a shovel, for it leaves a bad impression on her mind...
Well it could be the server software. Netscapes servers suck. I've worked with a site running off a Netscape server for 2 years now and during those years we've had nothing but trouble with it.
Tomorrow will be cancelled due to lack of interest
This page is one of the better ideas I've found for checking that your pages degrade gracefully. It's all very well having a wonderful new webpage that conforms to XHTML1.0 and looks superb in IE5.5 but if it doesn't work in older brosers you are losing a huge amount of audience. As you look at the page in older and older browsers the information should stay readable, if not near-perfect to the way it is in the top-range browser.
Strict HTML is one way of doing this; adding javascript and stylesheets allows prettiness in new browsers but the older ones can still see the info. This tool ensures you can still get the info across even when half your layout has gone.
--
Said it couldn't last, said it wouldn't last... This is the last stand against tomorrow's world.
Poor site is still slashdotted. =)
It's interesting to think of how much has changed in just a few years...my first computer was an Apple IIC and it did have a modem, which i used a couple times to dial random numbers.
My first computer that was online, per se, was a 386 laptop with a 14K modem and Prodigy . I was 12 years old and my friends were jealous of both the "speed" of my modem and the fact that I had Prodigy and I could go on Gopher and "that Internet thing".
Of course, my current computer puts the old 386 to shame in rather extraordinary fashion, and I have a T3 connection...my, how things have changed.
"The future belongs to those who can look at a challenge and see an opportunity."
Thanks for all the interest!
The new box (an K7 600) had only 64megs (not my fault!) of memory and thus got into a grinding halt in about 15 minutes, swapping as hell. I've just rebooted it with 256megs. And once through
fsck we'll se how it works. Another 128meg is coming up in the afternoon. Then we'll see how it works. I will also be looking at upgrading the kernel and doing some FastCGI or mod_perl (havent looked into the script at all, i'm just the sysadmin). Then we'll se how far our 2 mbit's of
bandwidth will take us *smile*
Hey, I remember when Gopher came along. It was a great improvement over anonymous ftp, after all!
So since Gopher was named after the UMN mascot, why wasn't the World Wide Web named "Collider" or something like that? :-)
I still have Netscape 0.96 installed on my machine. I use it for testing purposes. I figure that if my pages display OK on that, they will display on anything. Also, it's good to see that your NOFRAMES and NOSCRIPT tags are actually doing what they are supposed to be doing.
I tried /. with it just now. It displayed for a minute, then the browser GPF'd. You can't get much more authentic than that!
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
why isn't spyglass there?? For those of you living under a rock spyglass is the browser that MS bought (licensed) to turn into the now famous IE.
I hear ViolaWWW was a beautiful browser. I have unsuccesfully tried to compile it here. Anyway, it was the type of browser that actually let the surfers control the pages, instead of the current Mosaic-clones (Navigator and IE, and to pretty great extent Opera), that lets the designer control everything. The current situation is that you've got a bunch of designers trying to grab surfers' senses and stuff as much as they can into them as they can, instead of providing something that the surfer can experience as the surfer sees fit. It's kind of saying "Let us decide what makes the page best for you, you are totally incapable of doing that yourself!" That's today's rant... :-)
Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
Hmmm, wonder if I still don't got an old copy of Netscape 0.9b somewhere... Oh those where the days!
if (!signature) { throw std::runtime_error("No sig!"); }
Mo'Slo is what you're thinking of, I think.
Mo'Slo
There's also Turbo, (which I have never used).
Turbo
rainbowfyre
Vericon is coming!
I don't know if this is the right time to tell you that the inventor of Lego(TM) started by making wodden toys. And here comes a small history lesson: --Snip from www.Lego.com-- 1932: Ole Kirk Christiansen, master carpenter and joiner in the village of Billund, Denmark, sets up business. His firm manufactures stepladders, ironing boards - and wooden toys. His son, Godtfred Kirk Christiansen starts working in the business from the age of 12. 1934: The company and its products now take on the name LEGO, which is formed from the Danish words "LEg GOdt" ("play well"). Later, it is realised that in Latin the word means "I study", "I put together". --Snip--- /LarhoIm
-kernel picnic-
right then...
we used to have to get up at 11 at night the day before, and stand in line 28 hours to log in to a crusty tty terminal on a 300 baud connection to an overloaded server powered by three men on bicycles, telnet to a broken-down, buggy news server to retrieve naughty pictures from usenet by hand, in multi-part postings that never had all the parts, so you had to invent and UUencode the missing bits by hand before you joined them all together and decoded the result -- again, by hand -- just so we could view them dithered in ASCII text. And that's how we liked it.
You tell that to the youth of today, and they won't believe you!
No shit, that's so ridiculous. NT 4 without any service packs comes with ie2.. bleh.. good luck upgrading the browser if you dont have atleast service pack 5 on CD handy, also. What the hell were they thinking? God i hate microsoft.
Joseph?
You will need the first version of Windows 95 to run this: Internet Explorer 1.0
(The earliest version of IE that I could find on Evolt was 1.5.)
Quite right! And of course, Veronica was the aptly-named, gopherised cousin of the Archie service!
Do'h, the site is still /. :-)
Anyway, I could use something like that when I am designing webpages, something that could show me what it looks like in different browsers on different operating systems. Does that exist? It's hard(impossible?) to install different versions of fx. msie on the same windooze.
Anyway whats bugging me more is that most people don't know how the WWW looked in the early versions, and what's even worse, to 98% of all people the internet is just the web, argh.
Oh well, I guess it takes a geek to get upset about that.
---
As someone who was lucky enough to try the original browser, probably within days of its release, I find this annoying. :-)
Check out this web page http://www.w3.org/People/Ber ners-Lee/WorldWideWeb.htmlc .gif.
or this nice screenshot: http://www.w3. org/History/1994/WWW/Journals/CACM/screensnap2_24
Note that this wasn't just a browser -- it was a "Browser - Editor!" Very advanced for its time, eh?
(sorry...its just always ticked me off that credit isn't given where it's due on this one...)
david.
I tried viewing Slashdot in NCSA Mosaic 0.9, and was able to pull up an article. In Threaded mode, which uses mostly standard UL and LI tags to represent messages, it was surprisingly readable. However, when I changed my settings and clicked "Change," I was presented with the comments rendered entirely in... my current browser, IE5.5!
Guess it doesn't do forms just yet.
For more information, click here.
What's really sad is that I still use IE2 on occasion...... at work, whenever installing WinNT4, it comes with IE2 built in!
Old hardware or not, I still use old browsers. Small, fast, no annoying Javascript, that sort of thing. I couldn't care less about the latest Flash do-dad, I'm looking for content. And even when I have to use more recent browsers (like at the office, where I can't run my beloved Cyberdog on NT) I turn all that junk off.
Even here, I enabled cookies against my usual policy (with notification, please!) not so much so I could customize slashdot content, but to turn on lite mode and skip all that non-content windowdressing.
I do find it rather annoying that I have to keep a stable of browsers around for various purposes, just because of non-standard extensions and various mostly excessive junk. The office requires IE because whoever does our internal web pages has this sick ActiveX fetish, and I want to hurt whoever decided that Javascript was required to implement a button!
I just remembered: They had nude AND non-nude. You could choose a "prude" option (or something like that) if you didn't want to see nude chicks.
I also remember that I learned how to use uuencode and uudecode for the...er...binary newsgroups.
--
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
We operate the service from sweden, where lawyers don't have nearly as much power as in the US, so hopefully we won't run into trouble, but if we do we'll deal with it then.
...that the Hot Java emulator doesn't work. *shrug*
--
I'm sorry. The number you have reached is imaginary. Please rotate your phone 90 degrees and try again.
Finally, I can get me fix for the Netscape 0.9 throbbing 'N.' Now if Mozilla would bring it back (or make it a throbing 'M'). Knet
Recently a new site opened up..
/.'ed
Recently a new site closed down..
This is a bit divergent from the topic, but I found a very usefull aspect of this tool:
Finding web bugs! Those 1x1 pixel images show up everywhere now! Well, at least they do when I'm using Mosaic 1.0
Jump to http://www.cnn.com with the mosaic emulator and right on the top, upper right hand size is a small blue square. Gottcha.
In Soviet Russia...michael would be rotting in Siberia!
hmm
Got shack?
ShackCentral Network
Worlds best gaming network!!!
We had to browse the web on pure text-based browsers that still took five hours to start up! And we had to manually type in our links and we liked it! And when we got to an interesting site, our browser and OS would crash on us and dance about on our desk and sing hallelujah!
The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.
--Henry Kissinger
Web designers could use this to check compliance with oooold browsers as well. This kinda helps instead of having a copy of Mosaic from 1992 on your computer, and etc. Let's emulate the internet 10 years ago ! ;)
-Stskeeps, http://unrealircd.com
Y'know, DJ Delorie (http://www.delorie.com) has a bunch of stuff like this thing.
Here's the Lynx viewer.
The Purifier
and the Compatibility Viewer.
Poor thing can probably only handle three or four simultaneous users, what with being a CGI and all. And probably one in an interpreted scripting language at that.
/. archives it'll be possible to have a look at it.
Maybe in two or three weeks when the story is sufficiently hard to find in the
Since the original site's being
http://finnegan.metamatrix.se/dejavu/
This was on memepool the other day and even then there was a message on their site saying that they were suffering under the pressure. The server probably blew up when it was posted here.
I just read an article about using user style sheets to deconstruct web pages and easily determine table alignments, find web bugs and transparent shims, images missing alt attributes and more. Very useful to anyone debugging someone else's layout or for finding stuff that isn't readily apparent on the page.
Bleh!
OK, no matter how many times I tried to fix it I couldn't submit a fixed version with that link tag properly fixed. Either there is something wrong with our proxy or this browser (being IE, more than likely) or some new funk in the slashcode.
Bleh!
freaky
Got shack?
ShackCentral Network
Worlds best gaming network!!!
My first web experience was using the Cello browser, written by Cornell university in order to expand its gopher law offerings to the vastly superior hypertext.
This was only shortly after finding my first somewhat graphical ftp client.
I was working at a help desk in those days, and managed to convince my boss to let me play around with the internet in my spare time. I had a modem already, and a Unix shell account with access to newsgroups and mailing lists, but actually making a Windows PC talk to the internet was an incredibly wondrous thing [heh, still can be some days]. There wasn't even Trumpet Winsock in those days, nor a Novell-supplied winsock client -- I had to download two or three separate drivers, one of which had to be loaded into the Netware ODI client, and eventually it was all working. (Somebody else had a similar experience.)
Those were heady days.
I think I used Cello until Netscape came out.
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lake effect weblog
{Network engineer in Chicago--looking for work!}
So it is probably just a bug in the page itself, or in the URL
Every expression is true, for a given value of 'true'
I had this happen to me. I just installed NT4 server, needed IE4 to install IIS (...) tried to go to M$' site to download it, no go using IE 2. Had to go to download.com Way to go Microsoft
TCP/IP IS the internet you stupid ass the web uses a tcp port in the tcp/ip protocol, so you can't have it the web first, then tcp/ip get it right dumbass
I just got the GENUS IV edition of trivial pursuit. It has a lot of modern questions, as one would imagine. Included in the questions was one about the internet search engine named after the UMN mascot. Even though I used Gopher back in the day (I'm 21), i missed the question! I answered Yahoo!, as I knew that had come from a university. Oops!
n/t = no text
IE 2.0 still comes with Windows NT doesn't it? At least that's what the PDC here @ work is running.. :)
BilldaCat
Remember when you had to use NetBEUI? You had to hook your machine up to the server physically. Visiting a site in Tokyo would require you to unhook your machine, fit it in a flightbag, book a flight, go to the airport, spend 2 hours explaining to the customs man that your PC wasn't a bomb, another hour or so waiting for the delayed plane and then spending 8 hours in a plane to Japan. And when you got there you had to ask for directions in Japansese and if you were lucky within 3 hours you would arrive at the address where the webserver stood. Only to discover that they use different voltage in Japan.
No, you got to have to hand it to Marc Andreesen, he started the revolution that gave us TCP/IP and The Internet. Of course nowadays The Internet is made by Microsoft, but we still have to give Mr. Andreesen the credit that he so richly deserves.
send it to me!
Got shack?
ShackCentral Network
Worlds best gaming network!!!
It's been a long time! I do remember that site (and if I recall, the photos were slightly more than thumbnail size, but they were nude). Back in, I guess '93, I was at my dad's work (the Communications Research Centre up here in Canada) and I saw that they didn't even have Mosaic (shame on them), so I installed it on one of the Suns. Then I would go to this site and collect nudie photos for the grad students there :). Mosaic truly became popular there after that :).
:)
Goes to show that porn truly was what drove net development
Yeah, it's legal. The Dialectizer modified his site because some deep pockets bank complained. They didn't have a leg to stand on, but they did have expensive lawyers.
I just hate it when companies resort to lawyers when there are technical solutions to their problems. All the humorless bank had to do was stop serving pages to the server that ran the Dialectizer. They were cooperating with him by serving the pages.
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Anomalous: deviating from what is usual, normal, or expected
Anomalous: deviating from what is usual, normal, or expected
Canard: a false or unfounded repor
don't know if this site could be any slower. Must be on dsl or something slow like that....
Got shack?
ShackCentral Network
Worlds best gaming network!!!
Does anyone remember what the URL was?
They don't have Cello or any of the other funky browsers that were trying to enter the market after Mosaic. Guess it wasn't so hard to write a browser in those days...
I still want to work out what the "Annotation" menu on Mosaic was. Never did see an annotation server, even on the NCSA site -- sounded like a good idea though.
There are many good reasons to still use a text-based browser. Many times I want to grab something from freshmeat or search on Deja when I'm at a Linux box without X. It is also great for the visually impared. (My wife is VI, so I know from experience) If your site can't be viewed from within Lynx, you're cutting of a not insignificant portion of your market. Plus, I don't have to look at all the damn banner ads.
What a great idea! This could be a whole genre in itself, like classic gaming! Think of the possibilities:
Software that slows your computer down so you can see what it would have been like to run Unreal on a 286;
Mailing lists with aficionados of poor reception advising each other of the exact settings to use to make cable reception on popular models of television look like the signal is coming into a bent coathanger jammed into the back of the TV;
Petitioning supermarkets and other grocery stores to be open only from 9-5, like in the old days.
The possibilities are limitless!
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Give me liberty or give me something of equal or lesser value from your glossy 32-page catalog.
I don't get it. I'm still using Netscape 1.2N
(It has nntp and everything - except the buggy features such as javascript!)
2 years ago, when I went to college, I had to say goodbye to my P75 and hello to my parents Mac LC, at least until I got my PIII at the end of my freshman year. It was like a trip down memory lane then, as I looked up web pages using browsers and such that took advantage of the 40 Meg hard drive (now much larger) and the 256 color display (still stock), and as I played games such as Lode Runner, that would fit on the drive. People seemed amazed that I got all of that onto 40 Megs of space, and could do just about everything that anybody else could do (albiet Quake wasn't one of those things) with my old Mac.
It was a fun experience, looking back. Still, it would have been fun to have the PIII at the start of freshman year.
Eh...
Does it strike anyone as interesting the submitter was RandomErr?
haha, a HTTP500 error, i wonder what OS the server is running.
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Ok, i'm moving it to a new server now. The thing
is that we (dejavu.org) got sponsored with a
very nice (8 years old or so) hardware from digital. Very nice, but doesn't handle load
very well. I'm moving over the site to a (somewhat
faster) linuxbox that should be able to handle
the slashdotters somewhat better. For those
of you who doesn't want to await the dns synching
the address is http://finnegan.metamatrix.se/dejavu/
Who would have thought back then that it would allow all these new features on the internet. Discussion forums like slashdot for example would have been completely impossible without the invention of mosaic. Messages would still take days to arrive via snail mail without all these great sites like hotmail providing email. Real time internet chat would stil be a pipe dream. Even TCP/IP would never have been invented. All thanks to one person writing mosaic.
Interesting how good Bill Gates looks in IE 2.0. Now, why doesn't /. work properly under these browsers? Hmmm? Yeah, yeah, there's light mode, but still!
icqqm [ICQ:11952102]
Nor did it render PNGs... I'm not sure about transparent gifs?? But for the rest it comes pretty close to what I've got in my personal browser archive... /pyder.....
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/
\_\ sig under construction
I remember seeing Mosaic at an university open day for the first time and I thought it was slow because the graphics were reloaded each time you requested a page. I also remember using Netscape 1.0N and seeing the graphics cached made a huge improvement. Nowadays you just take that for granted but it was radical in those days.
And I remember spam free newsgroups with interesting discussions and a high signal to noise ratio and best of all no AOLamers!
I still remember the guy who got me hooked on the Internet explaining Gopher to me. He said that Gopher basically was too user friendly and would allow too many clueless morons to get on the net. If he only knew...
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The sad thing is, Slashdot is more readable in Mosaic .9 than Netscape 4!
*sigh*
Progress, huh?
Now if everyone goes to dejavu.org and enters www.slashdot.org in the URL, won't Slashdot get slashdotted? :)
h ttp://finnegan.metamatrix.se/emulator/get.cgi?ver= 95&url=http://www.slashdot.org
-- Trinity in high heels carrying a whip: The donimatrix - there is no spoonerism
tried dejavu.org and it choked. tried dejavu.com and... it's NOT the same site...
-Body piercing saved my life.
I tried To view slashdot with netscape 0.95 and sadly it crashed netscape 4.74, how tragically typical.
But if you're thinking of using this to check web page accessibility, check out the Web Page Backward Compatibility Viewer instead.
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Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
I see no sign of WorldWideWeb.app by Tim Berners-Lee. The ultimate web-surfing experience, the whole story available here. It's really fun to use btw.
Anyway, the server was slashdotted so I can't comment on the ones the had..
The "Model Server" (may not be the real name). This was back around '93 or '94. There was a webserver in France (IIRC) that served up a page with a picture of an attractive woman (I can't recall now how [or if] they were dressed). When you hit reload (NOT refresh) you got a different woman. Seeing the old globe-with-papers-in-front-and-a-wavy-line-behind icon of Mosaic brought it all back to me.
I also remember when I used to browse ALL of Yahoo seeing if there was "anything new on the Internet". Those were the days...
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Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
I did make it through to the page, but its kind of ironic, for a page that it kinda devoted to making people's pages more compatible, their code doesn't work in Opera, and they use javascript. (Opera does support it, they must have a slightly incompatible method of using it.) Why does the web have to be anything more than HTML? This reminds me of the days when the web was about information, not presentation, and you didn't need broadband to not have to wait 5 minutes for a page to load over a modem. (if you were cool and had a fast 9600 or 14.4).
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I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
It seems to me that the Dialectizer got in trouble some time back for letting people run URLs through a filter like this. Could these guys get in the same trouble?
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Il vaut mieux avoir l'air sans l'effet que l'effet sans l'air.
.sig: file not found
Sorry guys I still love my lynx