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Anime And The Tech Lifestyle
SenshiNeko writes: "This week's "Work" column on the Bay Area arts&culture Web site Metroactive explores the apparent overlap between anime fandom and the technology/computer industry/community... and why increasingly, in an American pop culture that doesn't represent them, 'geeks look to anime for their entertainment and self-images' and the portrayal of something that resembles the way they live their lives." Recently I've been watching Key the Metal Idol, Tenchi Universe, and Ranma 1/2. Very different series, but each entertaining while I wait for the next Cowboy Bebop. I've also recently begun collecting Anime cels. I feel like American television has let me down (with a few rare exceptions like South Park and That 70s Show) and while I'm not looking for media to "represent the way I live my life", I am looking for it to be interesting, original and entertaining. Sadly very little of what I see on cable is any of these.
What a crock.. Anime is as mainstream pop as it gets, just not in US (yet) - but wait. Pokemon generation will make sure we all watch that.
Anime is for adults, cartoons for kids. Anime is a genre, not a medium.
Sorry, I get all weird when somebody says Pokemon is anime. Not that pokemon aren't amusing in their own right, its just that its a kids show. And yeah, I agree, without seeing more than just what the CN hacks to pieces, you can't make a real judgement on anime.
If not now, when?
Here is a couple of good ones: >Vision of Escaflowne (I really like this one) >Record of Lodoss War (Series and OAV) >Gundam 0083 >Nadisco (This one is hilarious) >Cowboy Bebop. There are others but these are my personal favorites.
Go to www.bookface.com and read JMS's unproduced scripts for Crusade and realise that the Crusade story was actually a mirror of one of the B5 plots .
Also check out Fiona Avery's scripts including one for a Crusade episode which has Bester in it...
"You know you want me baby!" - Crow T Robot
1. Akira (a real classic, score:8 of 10)
2. Ghost in the Shell (already mentioned, score:9 of 10)
3. Doomed Megalopolis (4 episodes total, score:6 of 10)
4. Record of the Lodoss Wars (approx 13 episodes total, score:5 of 10)
5. Battle Angel Alita (score: 5 of 10)
6. The Venus Wars (score: 5 of 10)
7. The Professional: Golgo 13 (score: 3 of 10)
I'm kind of picky about anime. Those are the ones that I have. In general I vastly prefer things like Akira and Ghost in the Shell because they tend to be more like animated movies, rather than high-grade cartoons.
eudas
Blessed is he who expects the worst, for he shall not be disappointed.
Be careful about lumping our "community" into one way of thinking. It just ain't so; I know lots of geeks (actually, I think of myself more as a nerd) who don't like anime... be that as it may, we do watch anime, usually on tape. Thank (insert your god here) there's an anime store just a mile away from our new domicile...
We lived for ten years without regular network/cable TV, even though we have young kids in the house. My wife and I did, however, have a VCR, and my wife has always been big on anime.
Me? I just like cute girls in short skirts with purple or green hair... ;)
We watch the Naussica(sp?)-like films, which have solid plots and reasonable values. Get the original Japanese, not the ruined American translations.
Violence is fine so long as it provides something other than an excuse for splattering blood. I've no interest in the crude vulgarity so popular with many in the hacker community. I'd rather watch a Pokemon movie than South Park, thank you. And I'm no fan of Pokemon...
As for cable TV: We have it now, because I wanted a cable modem. I can watch my NASCAR races, tape the occassional flick like King Kong or Key Largo. The kids watch way too much Scooby Doo when we don't monitor them... you know, I never knew there were that many episodes of Shaggy and the gang? ;)
As for quality network TV: Farscape and Lexx come to mind. Well, Lexx really isn't quality so much as it is fascinating. I still haven't figured out why I watch it.
There were a few classics in the Batman show. The ones from the Superman show I enjoyed were Legacy and the one where Darkseid killed Turpin. Wild, crazy, and each time Superman almost triumphs, only for his humanity to show in the end.
My first introduction to Anime was the Overfiend series. I was hooked after that. La Blue girl was/is absolutely crazy. Well done Hentai is the absolute bleeding edge of animation, thats probably why I like it.
Hmm I'm surprised that the Transformers are Japanese.. the episodes were pretty simple and made sense.
I think I've heard about the Smurfs being German.. didn't know that was true.
Thanks for the info.
With respect to the posts about The Simpsons being uneven:
The Simpsons is an evolving cartoon/series. If you have watched it, you'll have noticed the evolution it has gone through and the different artistic influence it has been under. Most people love the episodes when Conan O'Brian was producing/writing. Some of those episodes are classics, I agree. However, I will tell you right now that if it had stayed that way, you would be just as disillusioned with it as you are now. Why? Because it would be stagnent (a la Full House).
For a couple seasons there, The Simpsons had some radical departures from the way Conan did things (the Frank Grimey episode being a good example). This perturbed many people and I, unfortunately, had just discovered The Simpsons mailing list at that time. The response was awful. People had obviously put no thought into their repsonses (it happens an awful lot, you know). They did not understand why the show was so different.
The reason it was so different was that if the show did not evolve, it would be come tiresome and in a major way. So they started making episodes with wacked out storylines - just to explore. They could do this because their success allowed them to.
In the past couple years, they've gone back to being really wacky. They are starting to make a lot more in references to themselves (witness this year's season finale) and making fun of the fact a show of this nature has lasted this long. Make no mistake - the producers/writers know what they're doing and they are well aware of what an episode is like before they put on the air. They spend lots of time preparing it.
Many artists have done this sort of act before (Madonna and Metallica being a couple examples). They are aware that if they don't take new directions, they will be labelled as having lost their creative edge. The Simpsons are no different.
Having said all that, I'm still not exactly sure what you mean by uneven. Characters? Plots? Consistency? The core characters have been the same for a long time (save for some flukes - like Principal Skinner), the plots have always been a bit crazy and for it's entire history, The Simpsons has never been consistent - especially when Conan was around. It thrives on inconsistency. It's almost a Simpsons trademark.
Instead of saying The Simpsons is uneven, maybe you can rephrase it as "I don't like the direction they've taken". I think that would have a lot more merit (that's the way I feel about Metallica, anyway).
Woz
"Roughnecks, stories of the mobile infantry" currently showing on Sci-fi network in the USA is woth mentioning. I would consider it to be an Anime rather than a cartoon. The distincion being a plot and storyline, instead of each episode being completly self contained. The plot is not new, it expands on Robert Heinleins book Starship troopers, but it tells a story that could have been part of the book but wasn't.
Erm to be honest at one point I did try to watch Buffy (the TV series, not the Movie which was horrid)... WB doesn't air anywhere aroudn where I live no though (even on cable) so I can't watch it anymore... Also the quality of the show would sometimes change from episode to episode...
we are all invisible unless we choose otherwise
Don't watch TV.
:-)
Cancel your cable and use the money on something else. Listen to talk radio. Subscribe to a magazine or two.
You'll find you don't miss it as much as you thought you would
-JD
Hey, I was looking at your posts because you replied to one of mine. Do you reccomend any Anime in particular?
Thanks
Check out Battle Angel, by Yukito Kishiro. Amazing quality animation, great martial-arts sequences, and an interesting philosophical bent... although that comes through more in the Manga than in the Anime.
I think what I like best about Battle Angel is the view that the body is just a tool; the dichotomy between machine and human; and the idea that the real human is somehow immaterial.
That, and all the plasma-cutter kung-fu.
//rp
How is the parent post a troll? That's BS, a dissenting opinion isn't neccesarily a troll nor is that post redundant when you consider how early it was posted.
What on earth is good about Anime? I think Anime is only good when a lot of effort is put into it like Akira or Princess Mononoke. Which by the way I could not find a date for... unlike just about any other movie. So why bother with anime unless it can help score with women?
While I don't work staff for of a Con I do hope to attend Nekocon this year (seeing as how I'm in PA NekoCon is by far the closest Con to me)... I've still yet to manage to get to a Con so far... College took to much time the last few years especially and before that I had no car...
;)
;)
I've yet to be near a anime club, though I guess you could say I used to ehad a small unofficial aniem group... I did however have the fun of finding out another member of one of my college classes was another ranma 1/2 fan once... And anyone college roomates I had become Anime fans wheather they liked it or not (2 or more day anime marathons can do that to people
Oh yeah my point... Guess I should get to that... I think the reason anime is catching on is the diverse nature you mention within the medium that is 'anime'. I think though that I always liked Ranma 1/2 because it was so diverse in what it could do... It's a love story, it's a martial arts flic, it's a comdey, heck every so often they even get really deep into spiritualty (though it doesn't last long
we are all invisible unless we choose otherwise
I believe at least one of the reasons I like anime is the same reason I find myself oddly attracted to foreign film; it represents a different culture, a different point of view, and is stylisticly different from American entertainment. I've spent my whole life in America, inundated with American media and I've become rather jaded with it. There are some exceptions; I do enjoy the Simpsons, Futurama, Family Guy, etc., but even those are distinctly American, and I enjoy a change from that. Compare Ranma 1/2 or Slayers (both comedies) to the aforementioned. They're just... different. Different cultures just have different ways of doing things. Compare Akira Kurosawa's Seven Samurai or Ran to say, Braveheart. I won't even start on how different they are.
Despite the disorganized, haphazard jumble of mess there, I think I got my point across.
You might want to check out Princess Mononoke when it finally gets out on video/DVD. Well done animation, very well done story. Definitely not for the family crowd, even though it was released theatrically in the USA by Disney.
How could you make this list and exclude Beavis and Butthead?
:-)
Considered by many as just childish or immature, I think it's the most funny, ironic, sarcastic view of modern America that exists.
Who can forget lines such as "Hello cu-uh-stomer my name is... your name" and the equals.
MTV wouldn't let Beavis say "Fire". (But the guy was fired, yeah! FIRED! FIRED!)
The beard episode *Damn we're smooth*.
Or is just me beeing immature?
Oh yeah, we also have "King of the Hill", it's... ok, I guess.
--
"I'm surfin the dead zone
--
"I'm surfin the dead zone
In the twilight, unknown"
Yup... Fortunately for me, Cartoon Network is ch.51 and FoodTV is ch. 50... I think they knew that Cartoon Network and FoodTV were meant for eachother... Those are two of the 4 channels I watch (I also LOVE The Learning Channel, and Discovery Channel.)
-Derick
-Derick
#define LOGICAL_FALLACY \
//I've never had any desire to surf
if((I like anime && I surf) && (you do not like anime)) you should not surf
What has surfing got to do with anything? If I remember correctly, my original point was that anime is not stimulating, and I do not feel it represents me just because I consider trying out a new *Nix distro a good way to spend a friday evening. Would you be a irritated if I made some generalization about the intellectual capacity of surfers? If so, why is anyone who doesn't like anime a "Pseudo-intellectual?"
Do not teach Confucius to write Characters
Today's Sesame Street was brought to you by the number e.
Slayers, Record of Lodoss War, Princess Mononoke are all good fantasy-themed works.
Lots of good sci-fi, too. Battle Angel, Neon Genesis Evangelion... you can't throw a rock without hitting decent science fiction.
Above all else, though, I definitely recommend Rail of the Star; it's kind of a Japanese Schindler's List, only animated.
--
These are *MY* opinions.
These are *MY* opinions.
They will not be *YOUR* opinions until the Orbital Mind Control Lasers are operati
To all who would claim superiority on the grounds that their hobbies and geekhood are far more appropriate than anime:
:-))
My happiness is not subject to your expectations. Have we all forgotten that?
--Maradine (yeah, I went to Otakon. And my wife brought 3 women back to our suite the second night. Better than I did.
trustedworlds.net - gaming, security, and the gunk that lives in between
As previos AC said Transfomers != anime.
Recommendations: :) ..
If you liked GITS then you _have_ to see Akira. Everyone will tell you this.
If you liked Starbazers (old style Anime) you will probably also like: Captain Harlock (*hehe*), Galagy Express 999, Queen Emeraldas, Back to the Terra (not sure about the name here). Do a search on all of these on www.imdb.com The "Terra" is feature film lenght only. The others are tv-series and films. Old style rules..
My personal favorite is: Waga Seishun no Arcadia (Arcadia of my youth/My youth in arcadia [Europe])
Thank you.
//Frisco
--
"No se rinde el gallo rojo, sólo cuando ya está muerto."
$HOME is where the
-- silver_p
But beyond that, I see little in common from geek to geek beyond creativity, a playful spirit, and a drive to create.
Yes, maybe anime appeals to a certain type of geek, but it isn't representative of the whole. Nothing can be representative of the whole, not even alittle. We seem to have forgotten the lesson of what it was like to be labelled and compartmentalized. Comeon people, don't forget your roots - we are all unique, even from each other. Make it a point of mentioning this, and reflect it in how you say things.
Without a doubt..
Neon Genesis Evangelion!!
26 episodes + 2 movies.
Totally great storylines and animation.
You won't be dissappointed.
Akira
1 movie
Very good movie, but its extremely deep.
Dark animation.
Ghost In the Shell
1 movie
Entertaining, somewhat deep.
Pay very close attention to the story or
you'll find yourself wondering whats going
on.
Ninja Scroll
1 Movie (i think)
Fun Movie, based on actual Japanese history (??)
Very Entertaining, lots of gore. Easy to follow.
New Dominion Tank Police
2 Movies (or 1 movie with 2 parts)
Somewhat funny (especially the ultimate weapon
tank chase scene.. hahaha) but gets rather
dull near the end.
Macross Plus
1 Movie (but lots of related shows/movies)
Great movie, easy to follow, nice action
sequences.
You should have prior experience with the
Robotech series to really appreciate this one.
Cheers!
Why world anyone need to look at a cartoon (or anything else) to figure out their self-image?? I just don't understand...
You should really read that book "Samurai from outer space" - by Atonia Levi - I took a course from this lady at PSU, and I had to read the book as a result. Its at most libraries etc, but it will open your eyes past anime that are all large breasted women.
Serial Experiments: Lain is a weird, thoughtful, slow-moving story that deals with issues of encroaching technology and our relationship to it. It's the perfect example of what this article's talking about. See it on DVD -- the animation is digitally enhanced, and it looks great on a big screen.
Actually, Powerpuff Girls is way more than just a "mahou shoujo" anime parody. ;-)
This show takes a lot of potshots at superheroes in general, and even more so, there has also been several parodies of -other- Japanese anime and Japanese monster movies, especially giant robots (I'm so glad Cartoon Network ran that seven-hour marathon of the best work).
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
Oh yeah, I also forgot:
1. A Wind Named Amnesia (score: 6 of 10)
2. Princess Mononoke (haven't seen it yet, score: unknown)
3. Sol Bianca (score: 4 of 10)
eudas
Blessed is he who expects the worst, for he shall not be disappointed.
Wait i don't get it, why use your Anonymous Coward, aren't you proud to be a Christian you mubling troll?
It is. When you look at the best shows on TV, they're almost consistently cartoons. South Park, is consistently witty, and manages to address major issues without being preachy, or seeming like it's trying to push an agenda. Take a look at Futurama, arguably, the best written Fox show now that the Simpsons is lagging a bit. Finally, shows like the Family Guy and the Simpsons are still better than 99% of the crap on TV nowadays. (Who actually watches Everyone Loves Raymond, it's god awful)
There are minor exceptions, in the form of shows like the West Wing, but the intelligent drama always ends up getting cancelled in favour of the 30 minute sitcoms which permeate.
Before you moderate me as offtopic, I think all these shows owe a bit of a debt to anime. I should mention that I'm not a big fan of anime, but the anime community as a whole has maintained forever that cartoons are not just for children. And even if I don't like most of their output (mostly because they go for the epic most of the time) I can see the value of this opinion. As a former animation student, I can definitely see the value of such incredible artistic talent, though to be fair, I think South Park is brilliant just because it doesn't try to have any.
So I'm rambling. I guess I should summarize what I'm saying for those of you who just read the first two lines and moderate -1. Anime, and American cartoons in general have one basic thing in common. They allow the writer to focus on the story, rather than the bloated egos of most television actors, and that is why those of us who have, or like to think we have, a clue tend to enjoy them more.
"...But that's NOT why people watch TV! Clever things make people
feel stupid and unexpected things make them feel scared!
...You see? TV audiences don't want anything original. They
want to see the same thing they've seen 1,000 times before". - Philip J. Fry (Futurama)
----------------- "I have a bone to pick, and a few to break." - Refused -------------------
I watch Pokemon on a very regular basis. It's what gets me up in the mornings before I go to work. I really am not sure if it's just me, or if there's actually something there worth watching.
Pikachu is pretty cool, but I think the real entertainment in the TV show comes from Meowth, who seems to have more of a clue than anyone else. Ash is clearly a terrible trainer. Brock seems a little bit worthless (I think that if he ever ended up with a girl he'd become terribly confused and not sure what to do next) and Misty... well, I guess we don't even have to go there.
But enough yammering. So, erm, any opinions, folks? I'd love to know how much of a minority I'm in here.
I don't understand all these posts trying to justify local TV as some sort of replacement-- as if anime fans should feel compelled to cleanse themselves by excommunicating their embarassing hobby and restoring it with a good old American replacement. Who cares? Enjoy Futurama. I certainly do.
Still, it's not on the same level, and there's nothing to compare to Evangelion, Bebop and Lain-- which are less TV and more art which just happens to be disguised as a cartoon. The stories and their aura are beautiful, poignant, unsettling, and go far beyond what anyone would think of airing here, mostly because it wouldn't be profitable.
Engineers and other science majors, unlike others, actually have to come up against nature's limits (the closest thing to truth out there). It seems rather natural for them, more than others, to wade past the media's push-culture BS in search of new and interesting content. And even if anime is popular culture in Japan, it's a taste deliciously unfamiliar wheb projected onto the American tongue.
And how is an engineer not going to fall in love with all the anime stories portraying the hopeless, tortued geek who somehow manages to find a spaceship, pilot a mecha, and, even more strange, have one or more gorgeous females fall head over heels for him and his cause? In the other corner, US TV doesn't often portray geeks, and even when it does, they're usually shallow stereotypes (X-Files excepted). Groenig's shows are good, but it's rather exciting to see offerings where the protagonists aren't trajically dense, eh?
Who doesn't love Bebop's Ed or Nadesico's Ruri? Not only are these characters intelligent to ear-splitting levels, but also humble, with refreshingly unique and, at times, cheerily fanciful outlooks. Ed uses her crew to test the properties of rare psychadellic mushrooms, while Ruri calls the accountant evil for breaking privacy and broadcasting the admiral's conversation over just what they're fighting to the entire crew.
Homer and Fry really don't compare. Maybe Mulder does, but he's a rare case.
Four years ago it was still embarassing to claim anime fandom, and hard to get shows. It's rather refreshing to see all that change, though a bit disconcerting to see a closet hobby becoming almost popular.
Yet it'll be a dark day if anime becomes popular enough that Japanese producers start aching over targeting it to American audiences.
(I like the updated icon. It's a bit Mill-chan-ish, and nicely optioned-out in the kawaii department. Arigatou!)
You are right, Batman and Batman Beyond are fun to watch, much better than the average toon fluff. I hope the WB can keep the good stuff coming. It's a tough market.
Sigh, I used to love B5...One fo the only TV shows I loved to watch... Then it went to TNT & I didn't ahve cable the whole time it was one TNT, so I missed it all...
How was crusade anyway? Never got to even see an episode....
we are all invisible unless we choose otherwise
Do you spit or swallow?
The thing is, none of the shows you listed had anything resembling a serious, ongoing story. There's a lot of american animation I like (most notably Powerpuff Girls, followed by Futurama and South Park) but I don't see any american animation studio coming out with something like Evangelion or Lain anytime soon. (Or, for that matter, anything close to one of Miyazaki's films...)
--
"HORSE."
"HORSE."
-Flaming Carrot
I love the way you called DBZ a 'big animated WWF match' that is probably the closest thing I've ever heard to what it is... Now I know a few people that would shoot me for saying that, but it's so true...
Btw did you know in Japan DBZ is looked upon as the black sheep of the DB series? I don't remember the names of the other series, but supposedly all of them were better in quality...
we are all invisible unless we choose otherwise
Not that I'd be a shoujo fan or anything, but...
IMHO, a box set of the first 26 episodes definitely is a release... ^_^
Oh well, I'm nitpicking again...
Pole - Fahren (2)
As always under permanent deconstruction.
"I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole
"while I'm not looking for media to "represent the way I live my life", I am looking for it to be interesting, original and entertaining. Sadly very little of what I see on cable is any of these."
I guess you work too much. That would be the only excuse for you to say a show like 'Titus' isn't interesting, original and entertaining.
Later
Erik Z
Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
Sure, they're good, but they're a really small number of Animated series compared to decent Anime series out there. Plus, they're mostly topical. Sure, there are some series which are plagued with the same problem( Just bout anything from rumiko takahashi ), but as a whole, the story and characters usually have a broader appeal than American animation.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
Any suggestions as to good, modern anime? I already know about Ghost in the Shell and Dragonball Z, so other suggestions would be appreciated.
--
Well I do read books... I have some 6000 or so (it covers the walls of 2 rooms for the most part)... Their isn't anything wrong with good TV, anymore than their is in a good book though... And their is something about Anime that appeals to me similiar to books in fact...
Also you could try fanfiction as well... I love the continuiation of the Ranma 1/2 series done by Dark Knight Communications in their Daigakusei no Ranma series... I tend to print them out and take them with me... Heck I used to be a unpublished writer (thank god for spell check under normal writing circumstances), but I never figured out a good way to get published... Now a days most people like I was simply write fan work based on existing materials or 'home brew' some stories from scratch and put them online...
we are all invisible unless we choose otherwise
I try my best.
--
Max V.
There should be a moratorium on the use of the apostrophe.
Max V.
NeXTMail/MIME Mail welcome
that, and it's great entertainment for us anti-pop-culture types too. ummm... and perhaps something in how anime has storylines, while many north american movies/tv shows have none.
just my $0.02.
-legolas
i've looked at love from both sides now. from win and lose, and still somehow...
Now everyone at work is going to ask me if I like "Anime" god... I hate it personally. Who could watch such bad voice acting, and terrible animation? With cartoons like Action Man, I think Anime can't compete.
witty sig goes here
The Simpsons have gotten really uneven- Futurama is definately where all the real Groening focus is now. And it's great. Dini would impress me more if he hadn't gotteb sucked into the whole teenybopper market with Batman Beyond. That show's had some AWFUL episodes (like the Rat boy one, or "Terry's friend dates a Robot") which Batman and even Superman never had. He's hoping to retool it so- great stuff in the pipes like the Justice League and returning to Batman stories of the past. The straight to video Beyond movie might be good too. As for the best of Dini though- did anyone catch Superman: Legacy? Fox aired it really early in the morning after delaying it for an entire year- it wasn't quite as brutal and controversial as everyone expected, but it was an amazing two parter, with a titanic Superman/Darksied battle at the end.
If ANYTHING represents me and what I like, it's the Food Network (and foodtv.com). The shit I've learned about cooking there has been great! And Iron Chefs is just too hysterical/cool to miss! I like to eat good food. As for animation, well, that's what Cartoon Network is for :)
"Klaatu, verada, necktie!" -Ash
I think that the idea that such problems are isolated to Americans is false. Firstly, the "common" people have always been entertained by simple things (for example: Roman public executions, vaudeville, sport). Believe me when I write that not everyone enjoyed a lovely five hour political debate with a dinner intermission. Secondly, I believe that there are enough people who are capable of more. Shows like the X-Files wouldn't have lasted so long if this weren't true.
Sure, most of the stuff played on television is crap but this is most likely true of any television network in any country. Meaning that the junk:quality ratio is probably static.
If one wants an epic tale he will almost always be disappointed in television. Movies and books are the sources for epic tales, and television is the source of "quick" entertainment (simpsons, south park, etc).
He who knows not, and knows he knows not is a wise man
I like Anime, but I have to hunt for the good titles. It's just like American television, the majority of it sucks. If by good, you mean a little action, when then maybe a lot of it is 'good', but I think most of the stories are non existant and don't make sense. How many Anime stories are consistent throughout the film? Even Princess Mononoke had some big holes in the plot and reasons for character motivation. One of my favorite series, Evangelion doesn't make all that much sense sometimes. I find most of non humorous anime over-dramatic.
Sometimes I think they think being over-dramatic makes up for having a plot that makes sense or having to explain what's going on. I recently got some Lain DVDs. I watched the first Episode and wasn't too impressed. It seemed very formulaic; Lain has parents who don't pay attention to her, but we really don't know why. They're just some sterotypical 'apathetic parents'. It's all very one-dimentional. Lain is a sad sad girl.. why? Who knows. Overall it seemed like the characters are going through the motions of some dramatic plot, but there isn't anything there. I didn't find much originality in the first episode either. Well, I will watch the other episodes soon, I hope they're better than the first.
I'm starting to think the tech-geek culture just likes Anime because it's different and not as popular (until recently), not because the stories are really good or the action is very original. It's cool to say you like Anime, I guess it means you're 'hip' or something. Ask someone what they like about it sometime, I rarely get a good answer. I'm actually going to an Anime convention soon. A friend of mine brought me along with him to one a few years ago, and that's where I got exposed to some.. he lead me in the right direction to find good stuff. He's a long time Anime fan, and we went through the schedule, and there were an awful lot of things he said sucked. I'm going to this next one to hopefully find more good stuff.
Come to think of it, there's a lot of American animation that I really like. Simpsons, Futurama, Gargoyles, The Transformers, G.I. Joe, Dungeons and Dragons. Even the Smurfs had some interesting episodes. Maybe it is just a cultural thing and I don't get it.. hmm I don't think so, it's more probable that most Anime really does suck, like every other genre.
I certainly fit in the geek category, but I do not look to anime for representation, and not just because I don't have much time to watch television. Sure, I liked Robotech and Voltron when I was 10, and as a teenager, I played the Robotech RPG in several of its various forms, so maybe I could say that I used to like anime, but once we graduate high school, can't we find something a little more stiumlating to watch?
Do not teach Confucius to write Characters
Today's Sesame Street was brought to you by the number e.
While I do like some Anime, Princess Mononoke was great, Akira, Dirty Pair, etc. Crap like DragonballZ really got me wondering..this article helped :)
http://www.penismightier.com/fenomas/cool.html
I like some Anime stuff, but my major problem with it is the awful penchant for cheap physical humor the Japansese seem to have. You've got this really cool, dark "cyberpunk" world in a lot of Anime films, but it's almost always ruined by some Gleek The Space Monkey-type character.
We won't even mention how bad the voice acting is in dubbed stuff, and how distracting THAT is.
Anyway, the most interesting show for 'geeks' has got to be Buffy The Vampire Slayer. Can't believe no one has mentioned it yet.
Check out Infomania for a huge list of computer references in Lain.
Funny you should mention cells.
Animation is going through growing pains at the moment. The stress of making high quality animation that doesn't look like it came out of the 70s with ever shrinking budgets(remember unlike the US, Japan and most of Asia had a ression) is forcing studios and producers to turn to computer generated techniques to complete projects.
Some astondingly new imagines and techiniques have come out of this drive. Consider Cowboy Bebop: lots of images where either partially computer generated or computer colored.
One of the most time consuming and expensive parts still left in animation is trasfering the cell image to film/video. Cells could be going the way of the dodo if they can figure out how to duplicate some of the camera methods they curently used on computers.
So hang on to those cells....they maybe become a relic. ^_^
On the occasions I'm able to catch the Powerpuff Girls, I've always enjoyed it. The show is well done, the narrator can be funnier than you'd expect ("The city of Townsville! But enough about that."), and I've always had a place in my heart for parodies... anyone not catch the scene in that episode with Patches the imaginary clown (I forgot the title) where Blossom is seen dressed like Cartman? :)
It's funny that this article sould come up. I was just thinking about sending a message to CT, et. al. asking why Anime is even being mentioned on /. since it has no connection with techies in the slightest. Now I find that it does. Guess I was out sick when the memo came through.
While I do like quite a bit of Anime I do not feel it has any connection with techdom as it relates to me. I still find more in F&SF (Gibson, Stephenson, Brust, Azimov, Card, etc.) that reaches my soul. I never would have connected Anime with techness until this post.
Anyway, that's just one insignificent mans point of view.
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If I actually could spell I'd have spelled it right in the first place.
I stopped watching it when they killed Ivanova.
Grrr. Damn cheapass producers wouldn't give her a raise. Sheesh.
Shadow Raiders? hmmmm, I dunno, but I just saw an episode of Action Man (another Mainframe production) that looks interesting.
And for anyone that lives in Toronto, don't forget the National Science Fiction and Anime Expos that are later in August!
I apologize in advance for the lame offtopicness of this post, but I just came home from seeing PB, and I would really like to know this:
At the end of PB, when Mima looks into the rear mirror and says "Yep, I am" (or words to that effect), is it her voice or Rumi's? I saw the movie dubbed and the voices sounded really similar. Sorry
The only difference with television is that it's all animation, so women have bigger breasts, and it can hadle more adult topics, without being some very werid thing like spawn, that has to be hidden from children. If you search, you'll find a lot of crap and a lot of really deep things on anime. (I like anime better :P)
btw: nice logo.. at least nicer than the last one.. I'd put her a nose and more hair tho.
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Stay tuned for some shock and awe coming right up after this messages!
Oh, please. That may be the image the American media tries to stuff on it, and some of the commerical import stuff may fill that role. But Macross Plus sure as hell doesn't, and Hana Yori Dango is definitely not that kind of anime. Neither is Serial Experiments Lain, for that matter. Or Key the Metal Idol, or Gundam 0080, or Queen Emeraldas, or Revolutionary Girl Utena...
Get the point? Good.
-RickHunter
Batman Beyond: reminds me a bit of Shadowrun or Cyberpunk, well done animation
Men In Black: keeps my interest. Better by far than the movie.
-- sed s/liberty/profit/g US.Constitution
You're going to carry on about Anime and the tech lifestyle?
I'm sorry, it's just confusing to someone like me. When I think of the term 'tech lifestyle' I think of swapmeets. I think of the bunch of test equipment I have down in the lab here at home. My three oscilloscopes, the LCR bridges, the Fluke 1953 Timer counter and H-P 1630G logic analyzer I've managed to bag for my home lab. I think of the good feeling when I hook up my two 5-1/2 digit, two 4-1/2 digit and one 3-1/2 digit multimeters all to the same voltage source and they read the same to within a few counts.
I definitely don't think about Anime or any other form of foreign popular culture imported by [#SOME_OTHER_KIND_OF_SOMEONE] to celebrate their alternativeness.
Just some questions to ask yourself if you think you somehow are living the 'tech lifestyle':
1. How many odd ribbon cables do you have in your big box of that stuff? Extra points if at least 10% of them come from completely non-commodity-pc hardware.
2. When was the last time you programmed software that you wrote into an EPROM?
3. Is your favorite 10x 'scope probe compensated? For which of your oscilloscopes?
4. Do you ever write code that talks to hardware that you yourself constructed? (this one is not really that essential to answer affirmatively to, there are legions of techie types who are more comfortable compensating an Op-Amp circuit or kludging a 555 timer circuit than they are with any software).
5. Do you re-use IDC (crimp-on) ribbon cable connectors?
6. How many circuits have you constructed using TTL or 4000-series CMOS parts? (wire-wrap is extra credit, although I personally favor the silver-plated teflon insulated wire I picked up years back at $1 a pound at a surplus store).
7. How many wire strippers do you own?
8. At the last swapmeet, how much did you spend on non-computer hardware?
9. Have you ever removed and re-used Integrated Circuits from surplus circuit cards?
10. When you pick up a card at a salvage outfit somewhere, do you immediately start reading the part numbers on the chips and semiconductors to figure out what the card came out of? Extra points if it's not a PCI or ISA card.
These are all really important questions, and indicators of participants in the 'Tech Lifestyle.' I'm sorry, running an alternative operating system and being a 'phillips screwdriver expert' who can swap cards in and out of a PC case does not qualify anybody as a techie.
Schnedt McWapt (in exile)
I am serious about this, please don't -1 ;-)
:)
Personally I am not into dark and gothic. Often this is what I am going towards to escape in cartoons.
I like pikachu, out of all the pokemon this one is the coolest. I just rented Pokemon the first movie and I loved it. My favorite was the "Pikachu's Vacation" short cartoon in the front. The storylines are solid, and it can keep your attention. The end, with pikachu verses pikachu was very moving, and I really didn't want the clone to win, but I didn't want the clone dead either.
Now, more OT, I don't watch much TV. I got a TV card after over 10 Months to watch videos. I have found that most TV in general lets me down. I really want a good antenna to pick up the news and I will be all set.
I also love Road Runner cartoons. They are always funny. I know they re-use the same storyline over and over, but the best part is that Wiley Coyote always has to be creative. And being creative for a dimwit like Wiley, it is entertaining
-Paul
I started out a geek who had interest in history. So, silly me I became a history teacher hated and went back to my then hobby of computers. Therefore, while I sysadmin greping my way through the day I still have a distinct interest in social aspect of the technology industry.
The idea that guys who spend most of their time in virtual worlds building apps and server environments that have never been there before would take such delight in the fantasy of anime is not startling.
While science fiction appeals to the ideas most tech folks have of the way the world or technology could be, anime appeals to the spirit of wonder and the hero/epic side of most male imagination. If it was not a hero fantasy then it would be for a non-geek stereotypical guy some sports saga or wrestling match.
Fantasy is important to males and females the only notable difference with guys being that incredible to watch someone conquering or fighting his way to the top over huge odds.
I am glad to see someone taking a look at this and putting their views out there for the world to comment on.
BTW, I can't wait either for the new Cowboy Bebop and Serial Experiment Lain was very thought-provoking without being completely depressing.
ACK
I like most of those (haven't seen Spawn or X-Men). I happen to know Taco somewhat personally and I understand his point. He liked the Simpsons, but as noted elsewhere, it has gotten inconsistent. The animation of the first season was... interesting at best, and many of the stories in the later episodes didn't seem that well thought out.
As an anime fan, I will say this: As there is crap American TV to the little good American TV, the same happens in Japan. We get the best of their stuff (there's nots of bad anime for each unit of good stuff). They actually happen to get the best of our stuff (all in terms of cultural acceptance), the Simpsons was wildly UNsuccessful there because it is so deeply rooted in our culture that they just get question marks above their heads, hence we get Groening's curious episodes about Japan and Japanese culture.
Some people don't get into foreign stuff (like anime) simply because it is rooted in an unfamiliar culture. The stuff that transends culture is what we see, humor, irony, love, sorrow, etc, and that's how I got started. Story telling from a different perspective.
--
Brian Fundakowski Feldman
Content with clarity and without self importance. Unfiltered access (Read:Star report) to the full text of legal briefs, policy positions, and court hearings can elevate a persons understanding of what issues are effecting their lives, without all the drivel.
'geeks look to anime for their entertainment and self-images' and the portrayal of something that resembles the way they live their lives.'
Ah yes, the character of Jubai the Ninja reflects the way I live my life.:)
But as for American TV; Both the recent Batman cartoons and The Family Guy have displayed a lot of quality storytelling. Batman for it's dark stories - even though it's oriented at a younger audience. Family Guy for some of its dead on commentary about society - refreshing for a long time Simpson's fan.
Japanese TV represents a different way of looking at things. It's neither more nor less valid than any other way of looking at things.
I do like the anime tho'.
IMHO, as per
Oh well, no point in steering now.
... there's plenty of fansubs and other such things on IRC, gnutella, scour exchange, etc. The quality certainly doesn't match up to a DVD, but you can sometimes find stuff that isn't even available on video or DVD yet. Happy hunting.
I have to disagree with some of what is written here. I run a anime club at a university, and also am on staff with one of the Major Cons . This article, if written two years ago, probibly would be correct.
But the fact is that Anime is mainstreaming. It is liked just for it's plot (A lot of Anime fans also happen to like Robert Jordan, for example), character dynamics etc. That transceneded demographic groups.
When I first joined the anime club, it was around 8 guys and 1 girl. At the last meeting of last year we had 53 people, 24 of them female. There were probibly 10 students from the school of engr, the rest either from the school of arts and parties, granduated, or from local high schools.
Anime deals nicely with engrs, simply because engrs can keep track of complicated storylines (not to say that other don't... but the media sure thinks that their attension span is 15 seconds).
Simply put, people enjoy good storlines, with things that make you think, things that make you wonder (anyone here seen the Escaflowne movie yet?) and things that make you laugh (Dragon Half anyone?)
Anime is analogous to Dungeons and Dragons from the Early Eighties, which makes sense in that Star Blazers, which qualifies as probably the first big Anime series, is from that time as well. And all the Anime geeks were into Magic the Gathering when I was in school, which is pretty recent.
It's just one big beautiful evolution, and what amazes me is it's the same everywhere you go. I've moved several times, and the new people I meet are always exactly like the old group I used to know, down to each individual! It's almost creepy. Each year through college I'd see the new group of freshman forming cliques and it's like damn, that could have me and my friends I'm looking at! Geek culture rules though.
This isn't to say I love all anime because it's so realistically representative of "us". I love comedies like Tenchi Muyo, Maison Ikkoku, Nadesico, Slayers (well, that's more drama, honestly...), and there's definitely far-out stuff in each. But underneath that, there does seem to be a quality that makes it easy to identify with the characters, and they can seem even more human than plain "actors".
It's a nicely thought-provoking article (^_^) BTW, I like the new anime icon much better, but... why does it look exactly like Sasami but not have the ponytails?
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Brian Fundakowski Feldman
Saying that anime sucks is like saying "TV sucks" or "Computers suck" or "Books suck". There are so many different styles and it's aimed at so many different ages that you couldn't possibly _ever_ be 100% sure.
I personaly hate "Urotsukidôji". After the third rape begun I had to turn it off. From "Urotsukidôji" to "Akira" to "Sailor Moon" to "Lain" there's such a difference it's like compairing "Teletubies" to "Bladerunner". Give it a chance. Ask people who have seen lots of anime what they think may sute you. Tell them what you like in "normal" movies.
Now if you don't like _animation_.... then that's another story.. :)
Thank you.
//Frisco
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"No se rinde el gallo rojo, sólo cuando ya está muerto."
$HOME is where the
-- silver_p
I don't quite see the appeal of Anime. Lots of anime fans seem to like stuff just _because_ it is anime, which doesn't make much sense at all!
Honestly, there's just as much anime crap as there is anime non-crap, just like all other kinds of entertainment. I don't understand the concept of being an "anime fan".
I do not like the concept of the "anime fan". I am a fan of thought-provoking storylines and well-developed characters (at least in narrative medias). I don't care if it comes from anime, American TV, British TV or whatnot.
-JimTheta
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My stupid web site
Dragonball Z is pure crap. There are three anime that consist of what bludstone (who also usually posts on anime-related topics) calls the "armpit of anime":
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Dragonball Z
Sailor Moon
Pokemon
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These are ALWAYS the three shows that are mentioned when someone asks an otaku what the three worst anime that they can think of are.
Some stuff you should watch instead (and I'm not going to put descriptions because I've had to do this too much on Slashdot and I'm tired right now):
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Ah! My Goddess
Akira
Appleseed
Cowboy Bebop
Dirty Pair
El-Hazard
The Vision of Escaflowne
Neon Genesis Evangelion
Fushigi Yuugi
Galaxy Express 999
Ghost in the Shell
Grave of the Fireflies
Irresponsible Captain Tylor
Key the Metal Idol
Macross
Magic Knight Rayearth
Maison Ikkoku
Maze
Martian Successor Nadesico
Nadia
Patlabor
Perfect Blue
Project A-Ko
Ranma 1/2
Record of Lodoss War
Rurouni Kenshin
Saber Marionette J/R/etc.
Sakura Wars
serial experiments, lain
The Slayers
Tenchi Muyo
Trigun
Urusei Yatsura
Revolutionary Girl Utena
Video Girl Ai
The Wings of Honneamise
You're Under Arrest
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Go watch some of that stuff and come back and tell me it sucks.
Ok, let me be a little more clear: the Simpsons writing has gone downhill. Don't get me wrong- I've always LOVED the wackiness- I love humor that's totally random and out there. But the Simpsons used to be very politically savvy and incisive and intelligent. It's just not anymore. Don't get me wrong- there has been some great stuff in there this last season, but way too many of the episodes were just awful- they didn't feel like anything but regular Fox drivel.
oh god. i hate ravers. you can have turntables, spin the music and like the music without being a raver. btw, i think the scene sucks BECAUSE of all that E shit and whatnot.
Chaos, Mayhem, and Destruction: Not
Ah, here's the B5 thread. I was wondering where that would be. :-)
And I have to agree with TheDeal here. I like both Trek and B5. (Although I've been less than impressed by the most recent two series; STNG rocked, though.)
This Spring I watched all of B5 with some friends. One of them was a B5 fanatic and she had every episode on tape. It was definitely a commitment and scheduling time to watch was tricky, but we had a blast. It was the first time I'd seen the whole series in order, start to finish, and it was definitely nifty to see the story arc progression. And we converted two freshlings who had never seen B5 before. We had a no-spoilers rule for discussing the show in their presence. They came to hate the statement, "You'll find out," as our answer to their questions. They got that answer so frequently that eventually we just abbreviated it and would answer Y.F.O. And our other friends suffered a barage of B5 quotations. But it was fun.
As far as crusade goes, I didn't like it as much. The story line was much looser. A little more Trek-style in some ways. But then again, it never got to 2nd season and B5 didn't really get going till then either.
I haven't seen much anime, but I'd definitely like to see more. Especially if there's something with as well thought-out of a story line.
http://www.blackbox.com
:)
grab a KVM
Seriously, if you think anime is all porn, you've only watched hentai videos.
but anime is different, it's totally new and creative. take cowboy bebop or maybe the old evangelion series for example... never have i seen such creative and deep cartoons. Not only is the story nice, but it was also drawn with such expertise.
my parents will never understand why i watch my 'stupid' japanese anime, but then again, i will never understand why they watch their 'stupid' TV show.
i wonder what my kids are gonna watch...
Funny you mention Crusade in an Anime thread...
;-) "hurry up Starblazers! You have only 300 days left to save Earth!!!" [retranslation from italian...]
I'm from Italy and, speaking of Crusade, I have only seen the pilot episode "A call to arms".
Now, for the anime connection, I think (and a lot of friends of mine agreed) that the story in this pilot is a rip off of Starblazers (Uchuu Senkan Yamato).
You have fast ships, powerful main guns (but if you use them your ship drift without energy for a while...) and at the end we have the lonely ship on a timed mission to save Earth, by means of adventuring into unexplored space.
I was almost expecting them to display the countdown like in the first Starblazers series...
Ciao,
Rob!
AniToolBox! An Open Source animation program!
YOU ARE AN IDIOT. That show is the biggest waste of time and effort to date.
I'm not an Anime fan (other than watching Battle
of the Planets and Astro Boy as a kid) but I've
always admired the artistic style.
As someone who knows very little about Anime, I
find the emormous volume of different titles to be
a little overwelming (much like someone who is
trying to experience classical music or jazz for
the first time).
Can someone recommend something that I could rent
as a good "first taste" of the genre? Or perhaps
recommend a website that has a good overview of
the cream of the crop?
Thanks,
Chris
To say that Lain represents the Geek culture is saying that Hackers achieves the same goal.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
Forgive me while I plug my site.
I run an anime review site at:
http://anime.mikomi.org/
It special in that it allows any visitor to post/edit their own reviews on the site.
Poster writes: "... and why increasingly, in an American pop culture that doesn't represent them, 'geeks look to anime for their entertainment and self-images' and the portrayal of something that resembles the way they live their lives." I agree with the sentiments expressed by the poster - I'd like to see a show representative of some part of the engineering/scientific community. We've got lawyer shows, doctor shows, politician shows, comedian shows, etc. The closest thing to shows about engineering/science is Star Trek. Why not a scientist show?. So what does Anime have to do with geeks? Beats me. I like animated movies and have watched some anime recently, which I like a lot. But I don't find these movies "representative" of me in any way. If anything, I would have thought them more representative of English or Philosophy types who like vague, abstract subjects. There is no such thing as a "representative geek." Technical people are as varied as, well, people in general. I'm in optical science. I like computers and video games. I've also studied Russian, enjoy traveling abroad and love childrens' literature. My roommate, another optics dude, composes music in his free time. A good friend married a History major, and has an interest in anthropology. I'm sure each of you could say much the same thing. But then CmdrTaco continues:"I feel like American television has let me down (with a few rare exceptions like South Park and That 70s Show)...I am looking for it to be interesting, original and entertaining. Sadly very little of what I see on cable is any of these. " This to me is a different issue entirely. What he's saying is that his tastes are not well served by mainstream media. Ok. That shows his tastes are not representative of the mainstream :) which includes some of us "geeks."
Personally, I think "Law & Order" and "The West Wing" are excellent. I find "That 70s Show" tedious and "Family Guy" banal. But I do like "King of the Hill" and reruns of "News Radio". I've watched a bit of Digimon and Pokemon, and can barely tolerate them. They are more slide show than animation (Pokemon: The Slide Show 2000 :) This just shows that I shouldn't watch TV with CmdrTaco.
What CmdrTaco is concerned about is: are there shows that we find entertaining? For some people, anime does the job. For others, "Everybody Loves Raymond" is the cat's meow. (My sys-admin, webprogrammer, friend likes that show). Others, can't hardly find anything
Some peope like TV. Others don't. Are we surprised? No. :)
ShoutingMan.com
I am intrigued by this post, but I can't get anything useful out of it. It might have helped to make more specific references. It is likely that the majority of your audience doesn't have a large library of Simpsons episodes memorized and accessable by season and producer.
- Michael Cohn
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Go ahead, blame me... I voted for Nader!
Gee, you say that like it's a bad thing.
Peanuts, Calvin and Hobbes, Garfield, and some of my newer favorites like Sherman's Lagoon, Dilbert, and Boondocks are all very different, and the characters do not all fall into shallow archetypes. If anything, I tend to think that when you read a strip for a while, become more familiar with the characters and only then would start to think that they're easy to generalize.
So characterize the generality Garfield fits in. I bet you're going to end up wanting more than just a few words to make the classification, or just give up and say "Garfield is only like Garfield." So assuming that you would compare anime to the example (comics), I can't see how you could generalize even then.
For what its worth, since I should get my share of the flamebait (*grin*), I do think that media quality in general is declining. I turn to anime because it shows evidence of many creators/studios/serieses/etc. still going strong. I stopped reading "comic books" because originality was becoming the exception rather than the norm. It's just that with anime, if you look it's so much easier to find really interesting stuff (with plots as original as could be possible! Don't forget as more and more media is produced, you have an increased tapestry of stories to compare new things to, so it's much easier to start saying that there's nothing original when you've seen a lot before. That doesn't mean that's really how it it (^_^))
--
Brian Fundakowski Feldman
Series: The Vision of Escaflowne rules the earth. I've also just begun Serial Experiments: Lain which is really interesting and looking to be a particularly good series for the Slashdot crowd.
The latest series that has really caught my attention, though, is one that CmdrTaco mentioned: Cowboy Bebop. I've only managed to get my hands on the first six episodes, but so far I'm extremely impressed. Definitely check this one out, and if you stick it out until episode 5, you'll be hooked. Guaranteed.
Movies: Damn near everything you see on this page is great. (As a side note, I enjoyed the new Escaflowne movie as well, though not as much as the series.)
I have to mention another show I liked that I thought was anime cause they were also coproduced with japanese. Jayce and the Wheeled Warriors. Man did I enjoy that one.. :)
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"No se rinde el gallo rojo, sólo cuando ya está muerto."
$HOME is where the
-- silver_p
Is that most anime shows deal with issues that most mainstream American shows won't go near. Now, I know that there are exceptions to the rule. But there is still an opinion in the States that cartoons are either for kids or have to be funny. This couldn't be further from the truth. Look at the old Sunday comics from the early days of press. Look at Dick Tracy. He wasn't funny. But he was cool, and the comic told great stories. Since then the comic/cartoon scene has degenerated into a series of jokes (pun intended).
To anyone who says that anime only fits certain molds, or that the plotlines are stupid, you're probably watching the thin slice of the pie that is displayed in the US of A. Look at "Shoujo Kakumei Utena" or "Rurouni Kenshin" or "Berserk" or "Neon Genesis Evangelion". These shows aren't funny on the whole, they tell stories. And really good ones at that. Sure, they have funny bits, but even the scariest movie has funny bits.
If all you've seen is Pokemon, Sailor Moon, and DragonBall Z... you haven't seen anime.
"Free beer tends to lead to free speech"
The "average" Americain has an attention span of about 30 minutes (based on my own experience). This is why they can't handle most anime. It's the same reason many of them don't listen to classical music. If they have to remember what happened in the last episode, they're going to loose interest. It is a sad statement, but it is true.
The stereotypical male Americain works nine to five, five days a week, and spends their weekend sitting infront of football on the TV with a beer in one hand and the remote in the other. They're not looking for plot development, they're watching to see people get injured.
Knowing this, the Hollywood cookie-cutter produces a thousand shows & movies based on the same idea: people getting blown up or slaughtered will appeal to the lowest common denominator.
Anime, on the other hand relies on long-term story lines, plot development, character development, and the viewer being able to remember past events and subtleties.
So, odds are if you like an epic tale, you'll always be sadly disappointed by Americain television.
ttyl
tpb
i never liked anime. But, I was forced to watch DragonBall Z at a friends house. There was this ugly green mother, and the main character. (i think the green homo was "freeza") all they did was talk, talk, talk. 3 episodes later, they were still fucking fighting and talking, talking, talking. They say that those movies that have way too much dialouge for good and evil is homoerotic. (in the case that they are both the same sex) if so, anime is the gayest shit in the universe. I like computers. Now i seems i have to like homoerotic animation and buy overpriced molded plastic (read: lego) to be able to know anything about *nix. fawk that, i'm from the other side of *nix users. We're the ones with turntables, non-mutant girlfriends, and we don't need to 'express ourselves' by wearing all black and having the skin tone of the pilsbury dough boy. this is my rant...
Chaos, Mayhem, and Destruction: Not
I believe the fact that many "dorks" look to Anime for parallels is the same fact that little kids look to toys/parents/ect for the same. We do this for a sense of relational realism in our lives, kind of a reference point on which we can say: "Yeah, this is real, I'm all good" instead of not having this point and thinking "Wow, what the fsck is going on".
I run this parallel between little kids and techs because, generally speaking, we are one in the same. Both thrown into a strange and crazy world in which we don't fully understand, and/or not comfortable with yet.
These are just my opinions. If you dissagree, oh well.
later,
freeze
"Your pen is bugged..." "How do you know? " "This is an action thriller"
Comics books used to be the common thread that geeks used to understand each other. And for the same reason geeks used to read comic books, geeks watch anime. It's something that they can relate to, characters in anime and comics are easier to relate to than the social problems of someone on Dawson's Creek.
In fact, most all anime is derived from Japanese comic books (manga) that is much more prevalent in Japanese culture. It's not unusual to see a business man sitting on a train reading a manga or finding a wide variety of mangas for sale at the news stand on the corner. I see anime more as the next step in the change of comics to video.
Hey Trek rules, and so does B5. I don't understand how anyone could even compare the two. Ok they're both sci-fi shows, but the story styles are completely different. JMS wrote B5 from the ground up developing multiple integrated storylines (on epic proportions) for the whole series. StarTrek is written as it goes, and the trek_think_tank debate on a seasonal-basis the direction of it's universe. I think i'd call B5 an epic-trek, and startrek a sitcom-trek.
Not to mention the fact that her teacher teaches C (you can see printf statements on the board when he is teaching).
And, even cooler, when Lain is browsing through code on her little hand-held computer, you can see that it's actually lisp code. I managed to make out a couple of 'defun's and a LOT of parenthesis. It wasn't scheme, but it was still cool.
-Laxitive
That's all well and good, but how could you not mention the Powerpuff Girls?
I thought that was pretty damn funny. Maybe not, but it certainly doesn't deserve a -1
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Kimagure Orange Road
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Hi. Just wanted to comment that I can't stand how Keitarou constantly crouches in Love Hina. It doesn't make sense that a guy would be so submissive, and it's depressing to see such a thing. I watched 7 episodes and I think it's enough. (I wish someone came and saved him from those nasty girls. I think I'll try drawing Hime-chan, protecting him from Evil Narusegawa) I'm looking for an anime that wouldn't make me feel stupid while watching it.. something with a good plot. So far, Fushigi Yuugi was the closest match.
-- The ballad of arrivederci
Ohmygod! I forgot about those Disney cartoons. Tailspin was great too. It had one of the most original settings I've ever seen in an cartoon. Duck Tails, Rescue Rangers, the Gummi Bears, they were all excellent.
I also miss the original Transformers and GI Joe. I know they were cheap commericals to sell toys, just like Pokemon, but at least they had real plots! And the characters had backgrounds and realisitic personalities.
Of course my favorite cartoon of recent memory is Exo Squad. It's what the anime studios could do if they could write as well as they can draw.
In the words of the Comic Book Shoppe guy... The last season had the "Worst episodes ever!"
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It's fashionable to beat up on Disney, and while their stories sometimes make concessions to their core audience (little kids) some of the best animation is coming out of the house that Walt built. Especially Tarzan, The Lion King, and Dinosaur. Next summer's Atlantis looks even more promising.
Also from Disney/Pixar is the excellent Toy Story series, combining quality animation with a fantastic story.
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Exo-Squad was another good All-American series. Its story, which was on-going, was very deep; the human race created genetically-engineered superhumans to do all needed menial labor, but they got tired of being slaves so they started to conquer earth. The story revolved around a small squad of human mech-drivers who were always on the verge of death, yet somehow always got into the most important fights. I really liked it, though I didn't see how it came out. I don't know of any Japanese cartoons to compare it to, but I imagine it could have done well in Japan if dubbed into Japanese.
Has everyone forgotten about Exosquad? Aired in the US in the early '90's, it was a serialized account of the occupation of Earth by genetically engineered "neo-sapiens" and the subsequent reconquest of Earth by humans. It was continuous and also had a large group of main characters many of whom died during the course of the series. Of course, the fact that it was not very widely watched and was quickly forgotten despite the high quality of the storyline would seem to give some creedence to the fact that the American public as a whole is not accustomed to watching epic storylines. Why is this??? Many TV watchers seem to watch TV every day, but for some reason they would rather watch TV that is short and choppy, without a detailed story line. In my opinion this is probably because they are watching TV mainly as a way to kill time rather than out of any particular attraction to the stories they are watching. Obviously, this is not true of everyone, but it is an interesting question to ask yourself the next time you sit down to watch TV: "am I enjoying what I am watching?"
I like cake
So... I was reading along and there was a discussion up above about Evangelion and how good it was. I thought to myself, what with this cold I've got and the video store being so far away, etc. wouldn't it be cool if I could just order up some Evangelion online?
Yes! I search on kozmo.com and find out that they have the first 13 hours of Neon Genesis Evangelion on tape and they can be at my house in under an hour.
As soon as I get better I'm going to toast one to the internet and delivery-on-demand.
So why is it that all the "otaku" that I know like everything, especially the tripe? Lain looks compelling, and Princess Mononoke as well, but that's about it. People tell me I'd probably like Akira too. Wow, that's quite a selection.
So what about Robotech, and the Gundam franchise? Or Sailor Moon, or Dragonball Z, or Oh My Goddess, or any of the other crap people fawn over? Even the stuff that is supposed to have adult plots and themes comes off like it was written by children, with a child's understanding of the world and a child's idea of how adults behave.
I remember even when I was kid watching Robotech, I'd change the channel because it got so bad I was embarassed to be watching it. I'd flip back to watch the robots fighting, but anytime a person was on the screen I'd go back to something decent, like Duck Tails. There's more real personality in a talking duck then there is in all of Robotech.
(And about that fantasy thing, I think the point he is making is that most anime scifi isn't real science fiction. Even the scifi they do make degenerates into magic and metaphysics. Technology or its social effects don't matter in anime. It's all about how cool robots look fighting, or how technology enables the brooding hero to vanquish his enemies.)
Humm sucks for the most part... give me scooby doo damn'it
Well, I'm not sure about 1 or 3, but I believe NeXT is actually, nExt. The capitolized E (well, really its just stylized differently from the rest) stands for, well E. E as in Ecstacy. Think about it, regarding all the clubs and the crazy drugs, and thats why I think its like that.
http://www.somethingpositive.net Funny + bitter = comedy gold
I gave up TV completely in '95, cold-turkey... before that I used to watch 5 hours/day. Since then I have watched pretty much nothing, with only one exception...
:)
I had to watch one program as a class requirement last year, I couldn't believe how horrible it was. Not so much the program as everything else (it was an 'educational' program). People really don't realize how much they're being brianwashed with all those advertisements and junk programming. And the way the film editing is done... things flash around SO much now. Most people I point this out to are so attinuated to this phenomenoa that they don't even realize it. No wonder why people are getting shorter attention spans.
Besides, there's so much you can do with your life that's so much more important. I started volunteering at a school with my free time and had more 'real' time for my friends and family (not 'hey lets watch mindless tv and not say a word the whole time' time together). Instead of watching someone else live their life on TV, I lived mine for a change. It really is pathetic how many people today are watching people live life for them on TV. What a waste.
Just my two cents
--SONET
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. --Benjamin Franklin
I feel like American television has let me down
:P Let me go through some of the best American animation there is, and you tell me why it totally has let you down...
:P If you haven't seen the X-Men at all, Fox is going to start re-airing the episodes from episode 1 starting August 21st at 4 PM weekdays.
:P
Well, then, you aren't watching enough television.
The Simpsons - The best American comedy on television. Also the longest running - coming up on its 12th season on the air, The Simpsons is the longest running sitcom on television, animated or not. And who can't like the really well thought out irony with real world implications?
Batman: The Animated Series - From the mind of Paul Dini. This is the only animation I know that has both a very dark, gothic feel to it (and even adult themes) and has made it onto network television. The story lines were perfectly done, and the animation was excellent - not too detailed, but not plain and dull like many Looney Tunes.
Spawn - Another very gothic and dark series, although it only aired on HBO due to nudity and much more adult themes than bad guy vs. good guy.
X-Men - X-Men was just a great Saturday morning cartoon. The story lines were great, and who doesn't like the X-Men anyway?
Futurama - Another Groening masterpiece. Many people don't like it because it's "not The Simpsons." But that's exactly what Groening wanted to do - something "not Simpsons," but still packs a punch.
Family Guy - This is another one that seems to get dumped on a lot. But people don't seem to realize that it's just as not-PC as South Park, and it's managed to stay on network television as well. Stewie (the baby) is the absolute greatest - he's bent on killing his parents to escape his daily drudgery and he does it all with a British accent
Seriously Taco, there's good stuff that comes out of America. You just have to look a little.
You should never take life too seriously - You'll never get out of it alive.
In the pop culture of a country I've never visited, whose language and social habits I barely understand, I have found something that resembles the tech-addled lives of my friends and myself.
An old boss, who spent a year in Japan in the early 80s, described Japan as "a nation of geeks". This was an MIT guy, so it was less a disparaging generalization than a mark of slightly amazed respect.
No wonder then, if this is true, that their pop culture is appreciated by their American geek brethren.
Specifically, there are at least two or three directors (Miyazaki and Anno for sure) who break the molds and use anime to tell deep stories- and in my opinion, those 'bests' of anime far outshine the 'bests' of NA cartoons. They don't dumb down their shows for kids, so all ages are able to enjoy them (Totoro by Miyazaki is a kid's film that I highly recommend to anyone). Their non-kids shows are very philosophical (Evangelion, of course, but also Wings of Honneamise- Anno has an obsession with God/Christianity), and bear watching.
What I'm trying to say is that, while your plot/character argument has some validity, since there are some REALLY bad anime out there, you're making a generalization that's too broad. I would say that anime generally gears itself toward teen audiences, but unlike NA cartoons, they don't depend (as much) on sex, explosions, etc.
Plus, of course, the quality of animation in the TV anime series blows NA cartoons out of the water. Compare Ranma or Tenchi to any non-Japanese produced animated show airing on NA TV, and you'll find that the quality of the anime is generally much higher. In fact, many times the TV series are of better quality than some feature-length animations by the major houses (Disney's Aladdin 2 comes to mind, though that's a straw man). Then, if you go up the scale, to the OVAs (or OAVs, Original Video Animations/Animated Videos), halfway between TV and movie, the animation quality makes a spectacular jump. Animation quality-wise, OVAs beat out every NA movie animation I can think of except for those particularily well-done ones like Iron Giant. The final step, the movies, are gems that we have not seen the like of in NA. Walt Disney produced equivilant quality for his era, but the Japanese animation studios (Ghibli especially) surpass even that. The Card Captor Sakura movie, Ghost in the Shell, Akira, these films are unmatched for quality of animation.
Well, anyway, your claim isn't unfounded, but I think you may not have seen a lot of anime, since it is extremely wide-ranging in styles, plots, and to a lesser degree characters.
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock." - Will Rogers
Digimon is NOT a clone show it is a extremly popluar show in japan that is still running.
The fox kids crap is a rather sucky show, the orginal is high quality(I looking for the fansub of it).
Most of the Anime on TV in america is dumbed down,with poor dubbing, and cut up to hell. For example in DBZ, when trunks is yelling with his face bright red he is not saying damn, dang, or what ever he said in dub, he was yelling a long string of words that don't fly in a kids show.
Another example is Sailor Moon. Sailor Moon in japan was aired around midnight and is filled things that don't the kid show cartory. In fact the show was cut up to hell so it WOULD fit in the kids catory. Zoisite and Malachite are gay lovers, almost all the monstors had bare breasts and many other things.
All these reasons are why I just wish these american companys would just stop airing anime. All there are trying to do is just find something raise there rateings because Pokemon has been so successful( Oh btw this is one the few actuall kids show that is airing.)
Part of the reason that "geeks" like anime is that all the best anime is the fan subbed and only found on irc.
Sure, sometimes the picture is a little rough (ok a lot rough). But there is something that just feels right about watching anime on a computer screen in a darkenned dorm room.
My personal favorite is "Bezerk."
I especially like the episode towards the end (around episode 20) where Bezerk has left the others. He's staying at an old retired blacksmith's house in the woods he gets to talking about life and he asks the blacksmith, "How did you become a blacksmith."
And the blacksmith responds, "My father was a blacksmith."
Bezerk asks, "So do you like it?"
The blacksmith thinks about it a while and then he says, "Yeah, I like the sparks."
To me, that's the coolest thing. To get to the end of life and say that you had a good life. Because life is good really, in a lot of ways. To look past all the heat and unpleasantness that goes with blacksmithing and enjoy the sparks.
I agree that you'd be hard press to classify all geeks as anime lovers (it's a gross generalization and gross generalizations never seem to apply). However, discarding anime simply because it's pure fantasy is a bit hasty. That's like saying things like Neuromancer, Blade Runner, Matrix, X-Men, etc are all difficult to relate to simply because they are also pure fantasy. Many things that geeks like are pure fantasy, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Now I'm not going to try to make some explaination as to why geeks like anime, but I think most people would agree that the empirical shows that there is a correlation between being a geek and watching anime (hmm, sounds like a someone should run a real study on this).
As for Iron Giant, I watch it a few monthes ago because I remembered all the reviews saying that it was great and that even adults would be touched by it. After I watched it, I was thinking "that was a typical disney-ish ending that anyone over the age of 10 would have seen coming a mile away." (yeah, it's Warner Bros, but it's still a disney-ish ending) I admit that it's kinda touching, but by no means did it have a more meritable storyline or higher quality characters. On the other hand, watch something like My Neighbor Totoro, Kiki's Delivery Service, Nausicaa, Laputa: Castle in the Sky, Grave of the Fireflies (a must see for everyone), or anything else by Miyazaki. They all have excellent character development and touching stories with powerful endings all wrapped up into about a 2 hour movie.
Slashdot people always get anime news second hand. I read this article from Anime News Service long time ago, a link to the article can be found here.
Anime cells are desktop backgrounds for people without computers.
But even artificial alienation is sometimes worthwhile for the new perspectives it gives you, and that's what I find attractive about anime, arthouse cinema, and a lot of other wantonly isolated media. It's also a background that the computer geek culture and sci-fi culture and the comic book culture and the adult animation culture that rose out of it have in common.
I also like what happens when this stuff hits mainstream culture. Ruoruni Kenshin is about as mainstream as it gets in Japan, airing prime time and enjoying massive funding and support from Sony. But its hero is a sincerely pacifistic badass who doesn't take himself seriously and doesn't kill -- a far cry from America's brooding killers who we watch restrain themselves for half an hour at a time just so we're not completely numb when they do get around to putting another digit on the bodycount. Kenshin builds its conflict up just as gratuitously, but somehow they're resolved without death and sometimes without even fighting. And yet somehow we're still satsified.
Stuff like that restores my faith in mass media's ability to learn new tricks and ideas. And it wouldn't happen without a dissident subculture that used its different perspective to create something instead of mope about it. So huzzah for good anime and science fiction and anything else that makes you think. And let's hope we geeks can be just as creative.
And um...watch Neon Genesis Evangelion. All of it. Including the End of Eva movie, not the wussed out TV finale. Don't stop cuz you think it's a bout big robots. It's good for you.
Macross Plus is another visually beautiful story. It is a 4 (or 5) part mini-series about childhood friends who grow up to be test pilots.
Apart from this, there are many other good stories out there. Akira is good, although the story in the movie is rather incomprehensible;however the opening sequence is one of my favorites out of all anime and there is a lot of action throughout the movie.
Unless you think that you would like such a thing, avoid Sailor Moon and Pokemon. Their stories are boring and repetitive. Dragonball also is probably not worth watching as the content in each episode is incredibly small. I personally love dragonball but I would rather read the comic than watch the TV series...
One last thought, I don't think that anyone has mentioned City Hunter. If you have a sense of humor, City Hunter is definitely worth seeing.
This is by no means a comprehensive list. Just remember that anime is a very diverse medium compared to American animation. If you find that one particular series or movie is not right for you, please don't rush to thinking that all anime is worthless; instead, try to find something different that appeals to you!
I like cake
Hardly anyone has mentioned the series Key the Metal Idol yet (except CmdrTaco in the initial post). Three DVDs, each three-plus hours; the first is available now, with the other two due soon. Tokiko Mima aka Key is a robot in the form of a teenager who, since her grandfather/creator died, has to become human before her power system runs out. Her grandfather said that becoming human would require her to make friends "who would cry for her, who would give her their strength". Thirty thousand friends. Either that, or she's just a girl who's severly deluded. But if that were the case, why would the head of Ajo Heavy Industries be so concerned with the Mima family, and why would the combat robots that Ajo is making (and testing in the streets of Tokyo) go haywire when Key is nearby? (And that's just the first half-hour...)
Mashed potatoes can be your friends!
According to the Yomiuri Shimbun Lucasfilm and the Japanese animation company Anime World Osaka, a start-up company, have reportedly agreed to co-produce an animated feature film, The Tiny Fairy Mirun (Chiisana Yosei Mirun). The newspaper said that George Lucas will act as executive producer of the film, whose $18.5-million budget will be shouldered by the Osaka-based company. Lucas, the newspaper said, is due to arrive in Osaka in September to sign the contract. Under the deal, Anime World Osaka will produce the master drawings for the movie, while Lucasfilm will produce the "in-betweens." According to the Yomiuri, the movie concerns a fairy who comes to Earth and communicates to others with the aid of a crow.
Thanks to the UMass Anime Club http://www.umass.edu/rso/umjams/
I like cake
I like the Willow chicky. She's a bad girl. She needs a spanking.
Can someone confirm this? I sold all my Lain DVD's...
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Believe it or not, this is also usually true of Anime and Manga(comics). The comics are longer and have better stories and have the added advantage of being better drawn because there are far fewer frames in a comic book than there are cells in an animated movie.
Come to think of it, this also holds true for many American cartoons and their comic book counterparts. Sure, Batman the Animated Series is pretty good, but it lacks the depth of story that the comic has.
Anyway, at present there are not a lot of places in the US to find manga. Also selection is pretty limited. One place to look would be Viz communications www.viz.com. Any others?
I like cake
Why is crap easy to find while quality is hard to find? Because money isn't talking. How so? Well, when it comes to purchasable things like paintings, cars, boats, high-end PCs, houses, etc., there are only a few people who want the quality stuff, but they can get them because they're willing to spend big bucks on them.
For an example, Final Fantasy 6 and Chrono Trigger for the Super NES. They were as good as and had R&D&manufacturing costs the same as other SNES games, but since they were made for "geeky kids" (200k-400k SNES owners), compared to their contemporary Donkey Kong Country, which was made for "normal kids" (7+ million SNES owners), FF6 and CT had to spread their profit margin over fewer copies, thus raising the price. However, the few people who wanted them would pay any price for them, so they sold for $70-80, compared to DKC which sold for $60 in most places. I paid $80 for FF6, and loved every minute of that game, as did the others who bought it; in 1995 Nintendo Power magazine and Nintendo's AOL site were dominated by FF6 and Chrono Trigger messages and articles because the few people who bought them were super-vocal, like Linux users. All things related to those games were expensive, but very tuned to their fans, because those fans knew exactly what they wanted and were willing to pay big bucks.
If all SNES games were required to sell for $60 apiece, FF6 and Chrono Trigger could not have existed. For a similar reason, good-but-geeky TV shows and movies never make money because TV networks and Blockbuster Video don't know how to make lots of money from a few people like Nintendo and Squaresoft did in 1995.
That is why I like the net. On the net, every TV show/movie can have banner ads individualized by cookies, or be pay-per-view. The net can also be broad and blind like network TV and Blockbuster. So tactful niche shows can exist right alongside worthless mass-markety crap. In the future on the net, finely-tuned shows made for just a few thousand people will exist. You may have to pay $20 per hour to see them, but DAMN will they be fine!
OT, but, under your definition, wouldn't Seinfeld be considered a "screwball comedy?" The plot almost always involves everything coming together at the end for a big punchline.
The original Japanese series was awesome. Watch the original three part ending sequence to the first season, the finale in Day Of Destiny, a two part episode. The drama in even half of one part of that two parter outstripped all the drama in the entire DIC dub. The original series was just so much better. Strong themes of loyalty, ends vs. the means, redemption, "be careful what you wish for", relationships(on both a silly and serious level). I would recommend picking up or borrowing Pioneers subtitled release of the uncut Sailor Moon R movie. That shows the best of the series. Mamoru/Endymion(Darien/Prince Darien) was amazing, it shed more light on his troubled past(not to mention one of the best entrances in all of anime). His all consuming devotion to Usagi is shown and even at the worst he tries to save his friends soul despite the friend having tried to kill Usagi on multiple occasions. The original unbutchered series is awesome, great to watch on the same level as the DIC dub or on higher levels.
Hentai lovers would prefer teh original as well. Lesbian scouts, Granppa Hino being a lecherous old man, gay villians, scenes and entire episodes dropped from the dub due to skirt lifting, slutty outfits, actual full nudity... Violence for the most part wasn't edited out, with the notable exception of when Ami slaps Usagi across the face cause shes being a crybaby. Yes I mean Sailor Mercury.
All in all the DIC version isn't horrid, its entertaining, but as with virtually all anime, the original is far better.
I lived in Japan for years and loved *most* of it. The reason being is because I not only studied the language, but the culture, history, mythos, etc. You'ld be suprised how many of my anime-fan-friends watch and watch and buy more anime to watch, but I know for a fact that a hefty chunk of the meaning is lost in the lingual and cultural translation. Could it be that we (American geeks) are moving toward a seperate pigeon-quasi-japaneque society? Oh yeah, Patlabor is still my favorite series. ;]
If anyone gets CBC on their cable/sat. system, check out The Newsroom
The show is smart, funny, and gives you a mockumentary behind-the-scenes look at what news gets on the air and how the news gets presented to the viewers.
"once we graduate high school, can't we find something a little more stiumlating to watch?"
Maybe he should have said "pretentious" instead of "pseudo-intellectual". Just because you don't find anime stimulating is no reason to insult people who do by implying that they have the mental capacity or "good taste" of high-school kids. Whoops, I guess you are also implying that all high-school kids are stupid and tasteless.
"Would you be a irritated if I made some generalization about the intellectual capacity of surfers?"
Hmmm, in your first post, you made an insulting generalization about the intellectual capacity of people who enjoy anime. You are being called a "pseudo-intellectual" because your posts imply that you think you are better than other people simply because you don't watch anime anymore! If you really are "better" than these anime fans, or if you really do believe so, please forgive me for pointing out what must be painfully obvious to you, oh great arbiter of good taste and master of what is "stimulating" for other people!
I don't think there's anything wrong with liking anime or with thinking anime is stupid. Just don't try to tell other people what they should find "stimulating" or "stupid". It kinda makes you sound like a pretentious pseudo-intellectual.
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"It was people! People soiled our green!"
Christ! While I find either of the above choices about as appealing as pounding on my thumbs with a hammer until they pop, I fail to see who elected you grand high poo-bah. If you have something to contribute, do it. If you're just here to piss on people's parades, get your own fuckin' life, Poag. Really.
--If you see the Buddha on the road, kill him.
You know, i've got a crazy idea, but it just might work....
Anyway, I'm hoping you were just using a bit of the ole hyperbole there, but really, as other people have said many many many times before, saying "anime sucks" is like saying "movies suck" or "tv sucks". I personally think a lot of what is called "anime" is annoying. Just like a lot of alleged "movies" are mind-numbingly stupid. However, just because people make "movies" that are excruciating to watch doesn't mean I will refuse to watch any "movie" ever again as long as I live!
I'm not suggesting you try to find anime you like - don't bother - you probably won't! Just try not to get all hot and bothered about what other people like to watch.
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"It was people! People soiled our green!"
I totally agree with you on Law and Order. A few nights ago on A&E, I saw a rather old episode where this mad rich and reputated scientist fucked over this recently graduated physicist who had to become a door man becuase he couldn't get a job to support his family. So guess what he does? He fucking bombs the shit out of the other one! It was great! Law and Order kicks ASS!
I dunno about Family GUy though, it seems to be along those lines of South Park "lets cuss until it becomes entertaining" kind of shit. I don't know about fucking you, but when I watch tv, I want some intimate shit that doesn't just hit you on one fucking level of humor, werd? I think Family Guy is defintly owned by the Simpsons, but far better then that PJ's or Futurama crap. As for the 70's show, well... I don't need to say anything =P
Help me through college please!
To Be Continued (with Be in the colors of BeOS)?
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Copeland OS? (from memory, that's right....right?)
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hrm.. okay..
[Otaku Mode On]
This has always bugged me. Anime is not a genre, it is a medium, and like in any medium, there is good anime and bad anime. Much anime is poorly scripted pure fanservice trite (ie dragonball, battle athletes, love hina, etc) but on the other end of the spectrum are the compelling stories, and intellectual and emotional challenges (ie. evangelion, lain, grave of the fireflies)
Just as there are quality hollywood films and crap hollywood films, so to is with anime. I know several otaku fanboys that will buy any anime that comes off the shelf.. Ive become more picky in my age and have tried to thin out some of the crap.
The previous poster called all anime "pure fantasy," which I find considerably odd due to the numbers of anime based on true stories. You go watch grave of the fireflies without tearing up, yes its based on a true story, and you can come back to me about anime being pure fantasy. (and besides, pure fantasy isnt a -bad- thing.) Correct me if im wrong, but hasnt fantasy been part of being a geek for decades? I miss those 7+ hour long dungeons and dragons binges we used to go on.
[Otaku Mode Off]
oh well, while im posting check out atanime.com, an anime mag I write for.
oh yeah, I wonder why slashdot didnt post about george lucas being in negotiation w/ anime companies in japan? cant seem to find the link now. bah.
no
There is something about animie (I even spell that right?) that I just 'dont like'. I have enjoyed as a child many hours of animation bliss, but all of it being your standard classic disney type animation. I somewhat enjoyed Toy Story and Toy Story 2. With animie, I simply dont like the look or the feel (big eyes, blue hair oval mouth? Crack baby?) nor especially the story lines. What is strange is I think Im the only one like this in the under 28yrs of Age tech ind.
The ultimate network admin tool needs HELP!
Besides That 70's Show and South Park, I think that Malcom in the Middle is usually good for a few laughs.
Eventually I think TV will just turn into one big 24/7 infomercial and then die. If you haven't noticed it is pretty close to that already.
...I can't believe no one has mentioned Babylon 5 at all -- like it or hate it.
My fianceé and I just started watching the series over again. Sci-Fi network is set to star showing the episodes -- plus the TNT movies, yay! -- in September. And even though there are plenty of episodes that make me wince in season one (plus the occasional later one such as Grey 17 Is Missing) I love the unique --to TV, apparently -- storytelling aspect of having a beginning and an ending.
It was well-thought out, and even though they had to adjust the story in several places for various reasons (actors leaving, for whatever reason) to keep things moving, it was highly entertaining.
I wish Crusade had been given a chance to hit its stride.
Jay (=
(Waiting for the rabid "Trek R00lZ/B5 5Ux" discussuion to begin...)
``Anime is popular because we all feel like outsiders!''
The ``humor of embarrassment'' style has been around forever, and that's all this ``oh no, I don't fit in'' stuff is. In the 30s it was called ``screwball comedy'' and usually came to a climax with everyone accidentially bumbling into the same room in the last scene and all the intertwined secrets being revealed.
I like anime (and screwball comedies, for that matter: Preston Sturges is great, especially Sullivan's Travels and The Palm Beach Story) but claiming that there's something new here is just so much academic over-intellectualized bullshit.
This is just another attempt to pick some random piece of media and say, ``See! See! This supports the theories I already hold about my specialness!''
I hate that shit.
these don't really "represent my lifestyle" but, i think they're both great shows, very, very entertaining and quite interesting.
SHHHH! TV!
Don't ask. Go see.
I consider myself to fall in the category of 'geek,' but I find anime to be mind-numbingly obnoxious.
And I don't feel that television has let me down, recently. It is actually making a comeback. Shows like (as Taco pointed out) That 70s Show, along with Family Guy, Law&Order, and even some 'teeniebopper' programs (Young Americans is a surprisingly delightful series) are bright sparks. I haven't given up on American media yet.
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Max V.
There should be a moratorium on the use of the apostrophe.
Max V.
NeXTMail/MIME Mail welcome
Too much noise, not enough frequency. Or, more news, less bullshit.
I watch anime on occasion (just the dubbed stuff on CN that you real anime folk scoff at :) but its just for entertainment. I usually watch it as part of what I call background vision, it's similar to background music, but just having a TV on and not really watching it, and anime makes great background vision for me. As far as anime like Serial Experiments Lain representing the technical/geek/nerd/whatever culture, possibly, but I don't think that anime as a whole represents much more than a way to make cartoons. It's a medium, not a genre.
Shine on, you crazy diamond.
Yes there were casualties in WWII. Yes many of these were inflicted by Japanese soldiers, sailors, and airmen, who were, just as we were, fighting for what they believed was right. As an American Service Member I can say that both sides had thier share of heroes. The servicemen of both sides didn't choose the issues, the politicans did, and the servicemen just did thier jobs. And I ask you to remember that all this took place 50-60 years ago. Yes we fought, people died, and eventually we won. Get over it. Do you picket a BMW dealership where you live just because 60 years ago a short, dark haired politician with a funny moustache managed to rile up his countrymen and blame all thier troubles on one religous sect? If you seriously find discussion of cultural subjects of former (and I stress FORMER) enimes offensive, let me say this, I find that brand of closemindedness offensive and request that you stop posting your opinions on them. Since you have to read this "offensive" material to post an opinon on it, the problem should take care of itself from there. Stop living in the past or give up the benifits of the present.
Anybody who'se not afraid to admit they like hentai anime in a major newspaper can rock on IMO.
I take it that you reperesent the reactionary Japanese element that just hates the heck out of the US for anything and everything... Let me take these in turn... "Merkan Servicemen are a shower of twats! They can't even aim." When was the last time you were in a standing army, and no, the Japanese Defense Forces (or whatever the title is) doesn't count, they are a "Defense Force" and have no business outside of Japan. In that little dust up we had back in 95... how many KIA personnel that were actually shot by Iraqis made CNN? And who were the guys who wound up surrendering to anything carrying a gun, and a few things that didnt? "The world would be a better place if America were nuked out of existance" Ok, no more millions of americans buying Sony TV's, Mitsubishi Motorcycles, Toyota Trucks, et cetera, et al. Ok... first thing Japanese economy suffers massive blow. Second UN loses a large portion of its peacekeeping forces. Third Russia, or more likely now, China decides they like that little archipeligo just off thier coast and annexes it post haste. Dare I contiune? "With its dumb fuck movie industry,..." How many US movies have won the grand prize at the Cannes Film festival again? "...MTV,..." Watch european TV lately? They have thier own version... and I am sure that you have seen karaoke bars in japan... theres the ultimate MTV. "... cultural imperialism,..." who is foisting whose cultural attributes on who again? Last I checked Sushi bars and karaoke clubs were making thier presence known over here...Although there are some japanese cultural tradiitions that the US could do well to adopt. "...pos army that thinks it can do whatever it wants," I think this refers to the incidents recently involving US service members, I can say that personally I think the people involved should never have volunteered, enough said. "...drug companies that try to change laws in other countries,..." And your problem is? It's called business, if they can persuade them to change for the companies benifit, great, they get to sell a few more bottles of chemical X. They don't, then they don't. "...polititions who think money > votes." This is probably the most apt of your points, yes the system is not entirely what it is supposed to be, BUT we can attempt to change it if it doesn't work, either way, not your problem, is it? "Yeah, well I find it offensive that the US works the way it does. And that they have so much throw on the rest of the world." And who would you rather have in our place?? Now back to the topic, hopefully the rest of this didn't wander TOO far off the beaten trail... "The fact is that the majority of anime is better than any of the shite that the US as a whole puts out on a daily basis. " And your basis of comparison is what? Sure we don't have series like Ranma 1/2 and Tenchi Muyo, but if you run Tenchi alongside the Simpsons, your audience will split along several different lines, first those that only understand American of Japanese culture will stick with Tenchi, while those that understand both will tend to watch both. Those that find the situational comedy of the Simpsons funny will watch, those that find the comedy of Tenchi funny will watch that... As far as "majority" of anime being better than anything the US puts out... do you actually watch it, or do you just post uninformed opinions? Profanity is a club. Reasoned discourse is a scalpel. Which would you want your surgeon to use?
There are actually several comics out there that are worth it -- Boondocks is one of them. Others include Liberty Meadows, for the satire and the stunning art. Frank Cho is really, really good. The Washington Post carries it, as do a couple of others. For those who prefer something more sarcastic and biting, Sinfest is an amusing comic that can make some good points. Again, the art is very nice -- it's somewhat of a homage to manga. Be warned that the strips should probably be marked "mature content" -- not visually,but verbally.
Check your geekiness at the door, for here we go. Losers populate Cons? I myself have been to very few of the respective types, and I don't classify myself or anyone else I met at them as a "loser" As for the supposed carnal activies, well, I keep wondering wether or not to bring the "blue movie industry" into this argument... So when was the last time you cruised the back room in your local Video Rental store? And, Anime is in no way centered on sex as its main attribute. Agreed that many have some kind of sexual byline in relation to the main plot, (Macross among others) and many have no connection whatsoever (Ghost in the Shell and Pokemon if it is actually decided to be Anime. There is a part of Anime as a whole that has sex as the main topic, but even these are better done with more plot behind them than almost any backroom rental. And may I remind you that the "Looney Tunes" characters and shorts were intended for ADULTS when they were first produced. Add to that the more adult themes from the Simpsons, you may be getting the picture here. Cartoons were meant to be entertainment for Adults, but were corrupted into the cheap laugh fest we get to see every saturday morning. Anime, King of the Hill, Futurama and The Simpsons continue the original intent of cartoons into the modern era. "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the solar system!"
Two good shows to come out of North America, more specifically, Canada, are Reboot, Beast Wars, and Shadow Raiders.
Although people prefer different styles of animation, Mainframe has given these three shows some of the best animation ever (ala computer animation.)
And people go on about character development, plot, etc. in anime? Try several seasons of 30 minute shows, where the show actually progresses (not like some shows where each show has a new plot) and has a single plot which is worked towards over several seasons of episodes.
Has anyone here had the opportunity to follow these shows since day 1? I've been following them since they've been around, and they are by far the best shows I've seen in the industry (and that includes movies.)
These shows require an attention span of several years, let alone hours or half hours. You've got to be able to remember development of many characters over a *very* long periiod of time, and also the development of the series' plot.
Having a single plot span several seasons leads to the most suspenseful episodes. You always want to know what's gonna happen next week, or even where the characters and plot will be in a month. Whereas these hour/half hour plots only make you wonder what's going to happen after the commercial break.
People have been posting about the Simpson's, Furturama, South Park, and other real/non-animated shows. Some of those are great - for your half hour or hour of entertainment, but they're all based on a *new* plot *per* episode. For something truly meaningful I stick with Reboot, Beast Wars, and Shadow Raiders. They provide the kind of depth that appeals to my imagination, fantasy, desire, and (not to sound egotistical, but..) intelligence. They do give you a lot to think about.
These shows aren't for kids, afaic. There's a lot of stuff a younger kid wouldn't understand, I've found. Not to mention the depth and detail involved. I'm 19, so make of that what you will.
This is all, of course, based largely on my personal opinion, however I do believe Mainframe deserves a lot of credit not only for their beautiful art work, but also their skills in writing. I don't think these shows get a quarter of the credit and attention they're due.
-kidlinux.
Ive always liked cartoons and such.. and anime I would consider to be "adult" cartoons. Its also easier to do scifi and fantisy in cartoons because if you can draw it.. it can be done...
Wouldn't want to disappoint you, but
- Batman the animated series has some Japanese/Korean flavour AFAIK (it was an US/Japan co-prod, and a lot of the drawings are done in Korea, as it happens with increasing frequency)
-X-Men sucks big time. Can you read "booooooring"? Also, it's utterly simplicistic: here's the good ones, here's the bad ones. They fight. The good ones win (mostly). End of episode. Next week, we're off from the start. Bah.
-Spawn is animated so badly it hurts.
I can agree with you on the Simpsons and Futurama.
Interestingly, you forgot to mention the Gargoyles. Yes, it's Disney. But IMHO it's somewhat nice and gothic.
Calvin and Hobbes kick complete ass, as do Boondocks. What I love about Boondocks is the satire of black culture and also computers. How many comics can you see making fun of rap artists and Napster in one strip? werd!
Help me through college please!
I saw it at a manga convention, above average mix of 2D and 3D and a plot that keeps you wanting more.
I think you're right in saying that it's not a genre though, because you can have Anime that deals with fantasy, or sci-fi, or any other traditional genre for that matter.
I'll just call it a style of animation and leave it at that :)
Michael Gentili
- He's just some guy, you know?
> The stories are, despite what was said by Taco,
> hardly original. They feature disposable,
> simplified plot structures and generalized characters
> that fit extremely shallow archetypes.
The stories, such as I've seen (my younger daughter really loves this amine/manga stuff, so I've seen a few videotapes and read a lot of comic books) are typically lame kid's fluff, some of it boring the the point of making me actively angry. If I've got to hear see or read another cliched magic-laden story about "demonic possesion" or another battle in a high-ceilinged hall where one of these damn goons throws glowing balls at the other, and they go "boom" and the other guy falls on his ass and slides a while, then he gets up and does it back, back and forth, ding-dong ad infinitum, any more of that I'm going to howl like a dog. But I'm kind of allergic to most of the stuff the mass entertainment media extrude anyway.
But the style of that anime, the graphics and the timing, is so new-n-different, it has so little respect for the stylistic customs and traditional metaphors of U.S. animated cinema, that it's practically revolutionary, it threatens to break down the value of Hollywood's fixed aesthetic assets, so I dig anime. From a distance, that is.
Yours WDK - WKiernan@concentric.net
I believe you mean under-sexed. But then again, you might be using it like Salinger did in Catcher in the Rye where Holden claimed he was over-sexed but he never got any and was pretty repulsed by the idea of his roomate giving the time to a girl he knew during his childhood.
/. keeps posting stories insisting on continuing this stereotype.
BTW, as a computer user, and an avid fan of pussy and fellatio, I'm kind of discouraged by this stigmata of geeks being fat 20 somethings who spend their days on their comps and beating their shit to X-Men pr0n. And stupid Rob Malda keeps playing into it.
BTW, how come there isn't a story about athletes or business men or shows like Law & Order and how they reflect geeks? I know plenty of geeks who's knowledge range extends beyond just computers and cartoons, and I think it's insulting that
Help me through college please!
Well, while I have personally observed that many of 'my kind' are into anime, I've never been able to explain the attraction. Myself, I can't stand anime. The stories are, despite what was said by Taco, hardly original. They feature disposable, simplified plot structures and generalized characters that fit extremely shallow archetypes.
How can a 'geek' relate to anything in anime? They're pure fantasy (poorly crafted fantasy, at that).
Now, let's not think that I dislike anime for some jingoistic reason. There are many fine artists, writers, musicians, engineers, etc. that are all from Japan -- just as there are from any country. I don't think American animation is that much better sans choice items like 'The Iron Giant', even though it was a children's film it featured much higher quality of characters and a far more meritable storyline.
Just my two cents. I'll probably get moderated down as 'flamebait' for this... even though this was honestly not my intent.
"Die Schlümpfe" is indeed the German name for the Smurfs, but they're not German by origin. Our little blue friends come from the heartland of European comics, Belgium.
In the native language (French) of their creator Peyo they're called "Les Schtroumpfs". In the other official language of Belgium (Dutch) they were called "De Smurfen". I suppose the English name "The Smurfs" was derived from the Dutch name.
- Also Sprach Doktor Merkwurdigliebe
Anime is just my current diversion from the 'real' world' along with comp-games, movies whatever else is interesting at the time. While I am not a totatly dedicated anime-fan, I do have a large collection of movies. (1000+ at last count)
15 ysars ago it was books - LOTS of books - I could consume 400 pg. scifi/fantasy books in a hour - no kidding. I had special dispensation from the library at the time to check out as many books as I wanted.
Let's face it - the 'real world' is a boring repetitive place. We as a society are constantly trying to be less bored - some of us just happen to become bored faster than others.
To me the american TV/movie 'engines' seem to be spewing out the same stuff - and a lot of it is trying to moralize us into submission. Too many show seem to have an agenda to me. I prefer that which is mede to entertain only.
I tend to prefer the shows that jab fun at life's stupidities (simpsons, futurerama, comics like non-sequiter in newspapers), or shows that have a multi-leveled involved plot ('hill street blues', robotech), or just be silly. (ranma 1/2, red-dwarf, wallace and grommet). eg the extremes ends of the hyper-bell curve of entertainment.
Hm... one last thought - catagories to describe the whole - not possible - too mnay variations - accept it. Articles are done to generate response. Well this was mine.
make Linux, not Microsoft. sin(beast) = -0.809016994374947424102293417182819
Just don't mention Circuit Breaker's appearance in the Secret Wars 8-). The TF universe was separate to the 'real' Marvel Universe, although it had Spidey, SHIELD and The Savage Land (which is where the Ark found the dinosaurs to reformat the Dinobots). Also, the Transformers were in the same universe as GI Joe, and there were at least three cross-overs (one of which was UK-only).
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
Maybe it's the continuity-addicted comic freak in me, but I quite like Batman Beyond (or Batman of The Future as it's called over here in the UK when ITV deign to actually show an episode). I love the referencing back to older villains, the mystery of why Bruce stopped being Batman, Barbara Gordon being the new Commissioner (with the subtext that she and Batman did not part of good terms), the episode with the armour from Dark Knight Returns, and so on.
Now if you want to get me started on the WB's case, mention Pinky, Elmrya, and The Brain...