CueCat Goes After Online Barcode Database

Just noted that CueCat is going for this year's Useless Legal Action Beanie by going after www.upcdatabase.com, a site that is storing UPC codes and allows people to look them up. The database contains almost a half a million entries right now. Unfortunately they're not distributing copies of their database, so it may be necessary to create an open db just to make sure that this data isn't locked up. Update: 09/28 08:14 PM by CT : Lineo's cuecat site was taken down also.

Comments

Re:Who ARE these people?

[jeffsplace]

I don't know *who* they are, but they're now at the top of my F*ckedCompany list!

warning

[tonyz2k]

Online UPC Databases beware!!

Whatever you do, do not bend over.

I repeat, DO NOT BEND OVER..

DigitalConvergence is RIGHT BEHIND YOU...

Re:god damnit

[sprag]

Hmm, they may sell cues, but they should purchase at least one clue. Hmm. :Clue:Cat. I like it.

Re:Fun with cue cat

[Misch]

scan a frappuccino bottle: and you get taken to the pepsi cola site. what starbucs has to do with pepsi is beyound my meager grasp...

IIRC, Pepsico is the bottler for the Starbucks Frappuchino drink. Much the same way that Coca Cola is the bottler for Snapple...

Re:Haha - the new age of aliases

[LaoK]

When most of the grocery stores in my area started using those "shopper loyalty" cards, at first I thought of just shopping elsewhere.

But as they proliferated, I realized that the best solution is to corrupt the databases.

Right now, I use a Kroger card that isn't tied to a form that I filled out. I just happened to "pick one up off the counter"one day. As an alternative, just provide an alias name and non-existent address (or the store's address), and fill out as many "shopper loyalty" cards as you can, and encourage your friends to do the same.

I note with some pleasure that the chain that initiated these stupid cards (Jitney-Jungle) has pulled out of the local market, and that everybody's getting beat these days by Wal-Mart, who doesn't require a stupid card.

And Amazon.com has an ISBN Database

[tz]

So, why aren't they going after Amazon and nearly every other online bookseller that has basically the same kind of info online? (Or is this another "we don't like your site, but won't tell you why" letter from K&K who apparently have an entire staff of ugly lawyers and a FedEx account).

Re:And Amazon.com has an ISBN Database

[mami]

...because they license the ISBN databases from other companies...

Why not 'slashdot' their supplies of cuecats?

[Sriracha]

Let's respond with absurd capitalist attacks to match their absurd legal attacks. One possible response in this vein is for us to request cuecats from Radio Shack and other sources whenever we can. CueCat's per-consumer costs are a function of the number of cuecats that they distribute. If we request and receive multiple cuecats each, we'll drive up their capital investment costs. Then, by not using them, we will reduce the per-consumer revenues. Their funding and financial models may be dependent on some per-cuecat usage or revenue targets. It sure would be too bad if they had capital crunch and problems with their bankers because they missed their targets. If the Radioshacks of the world run out of the cuecats, then we'll also save those unwitting consumers from the dangers that they present to the general public.

Don't forget about plastic

[marcus]

Your anonymous shopper loyalty card does not hide you if you use other forms of electronic payment AKA credit/debit cards to execute your purchase.

First stick your ATM card in the machine at the bank, near work, or near home(because such trace data is useless, as they already know where you live, work, and where the bank is). Then pay cash.

LINEO CUECAT DRIVER AVAILABLE HERE

[hardcorejon]

The linux cuecat driver is still listed on tucows.

You may want to go to tucows directly and search for cuecat (that way you'll get a local/faster tucows mirror).

In any case, it is definitely available here: http://fundy.linu x.t ucows.com/conhtml/adnload/78480_19532.html


- jonathan.

The Moral Majority was disbanded in 1989

Re:LINEO CUECAT DRIVER AVAILABLE HERE

[Chmarr]

That's not the lineo version... is a version that runs in userspace.

The lineo version was one that ran in kernel space. Nifty in that it intelligently split out input from the keyboard and input from the CueCat.

Not out of business- they're biding their time...

[Svartalf]

Some of the people out there contacted them to see what they had to say about all of this. They're supposedly waiting and seeing what comes of all of this. Another submarine attack, perhaps. But, if you look at what I scrounged up, even NeoMedia doesn't have a leg to stand on- the patent DOES cover this sort of thing.

Re:Not about the Database itself, but using :CC sc

[Karmageddon]

The guy who originally wrote the code that generated the CDDB data gave the code away. He later asserted property rights to the data and today it is not free. Are you going to leap in and defend him also?

Idiot

Those who are ignorant [that would be you] of history are doomed to repeat it. I never said that the webmaster in question was not dedicated to opensource, I simply pointed out that the comment above was indistinguishable from what one might hear from a person trying to build a proprietary database. I guess you are disagreeing with that?

Everything I've said has been fact. Everything you've said has been opinion.

Re:More vauge lawsuit?

[1010011010]

Go grab Foocat -- it looks up author, info URL, title and a cover shot for books, CDs and DVD.


___________________________

Re:Prior art?

[SeattleDave]

Those would be the Cauzin strips, I believe. BTW - the :CueCat is a ridiculous piece of crap. It's a horrible scanner.

Re:Wacky patent. So why not circumvent HTTP for no

[CodeMonky]

Found and old business card:
http://www.neomedia-tech.com/

Even more proctological uses!

[-benjy]

As long as you are planning to shove an intelligent :CueCat up your ass, why stop at detecting colon cancer? Make a plug-in architecture for your software, and somebody will soon write a routine to detect whether someone is full of sh*t!

"What?" you say, "I am well fibered and squeaky clean. How will I test it?" The answer is simple my friend. Just make certain that Digital Convergence knows about your exploits. They will send one of their lawyers after you di-rectly. Capture the lawyer and use him to perfect your scatological scanning software.

Re:New EULA Terms

[fence]

you mean like all of the warnings that come with a "Happy Fun Ball"?

best one by far is: Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball
---
Interested in the Colorado Lottery?

Not about the Database itself, but using :CC scans

[Whizard]

I'm friends with the guy who runs upcdatabase.com, and I just thought I'd mention a couple things that made this post slightly inaccurate.

First off, the C&D letter is regarding the ability his site has to accept a UPC code directly from a CueCat scan, not about the database itself. He has a text input you can click in, and then scan the UPC code, and it will send it to a CGI script that decodes the CueCat scan, and looks up the UPC code in his database.

Secondly, the reason his database isn't publicly available is because he got a lot of seed data for it from a third-party source with the agreement that the entire DB wouldn't be made publicly available. (No evil closed-source-ness conspiracies here, he's actually a strong supporter of open source, and has written several open source programs you can find on Freshmeat.)

Re:Another use for Cue:Cat, colon cancer detection

[levik]

I think you are just looking for an excuse to stick that long hard pussy cat up your rectum... But, who am i to judge...

Get a Clue Cue

[runswithd6s]

• :CueCat scanner == hardware
• DC's business model == give away hardware to drive business to website.
• Competition provides same service
• Because :CueCat hardware is used, Competition must be "stealing"

Do you think :CueCat has ever heard of a modem? Do you think that if USR and Motorola were to throw temper tantrums over their competition in the same manner that anyone would give them any serious business? Do you think that any Judicial representative (aka, Judge, Lawyer) would even consider such a lawsuit? Let's hope the judge presiding over this case throw it out for the childish temper tantrum it is.

Re:Get a Clue Cue

[Nightpaw]

Have you seen the cases judges are ruling in favor of the plaintiff on? I bet they could make this happen.

Re:thats fine

[waldoj]

You own your post, whether or not they remove it. I see no violation of that copyright.

-Waldo

Theory of DC legal action

[Col. Klink (retired)]

Saw on flyingbuttmonkeys:

Stephen Satchell's theory behind the DC letters. Basically, DC is only going after barcode to web translations, not simply cuecat decoders. Even though DC has refused to answer what their "intellectual property" is, their letters have gone exclusively to sites that have software that can let you use your cat with the web. Satchell further points out that NeoMedia Technologies, not DC, actually have a patent on barcode to web lookups. NeoMedia is sitting on the patent until, I guess, there is enough money being made to jump in and begin extorting licensing fees...

Spurious lawyerly intimidation

[kiscica]

One thing seems pretty clear to me: as long as site administrators keep taking down the "offending" material as soon as they get a cease-and-desist (C&D) letter from a whiny company like Digital Convergence, regardless of the strength of the company's legal position -- sending these letters is going to continue to be an effective way for companies to get want they want.

No one wants to face a lawsuit, and I can understand why individual hackers who just don't want the hassle give in so easily when they receive a C&D letter.

But surely there are *some* people out there who feel they can take the risk and stand up to nasty letters making demands with such dubious legal backing? I'd think that the CueCat flap would be a perfect place to start. Everyone seems to agree that Digital Convergence hasn't a legal leg to stand on here:

• they may not even have a relevant patent
• even if they did, it would not be a patent infringement to decode CueCat output and use it for any purpose whatsoever; it might be an infringement to manufacture your own CueCats (especially if you used the same "encryption"), but no one's doing that!
• the anti-circumvention part of the DMCA, even if you stipulate that such an idiotic law could or should remain on the books, isn't even at issue here as no copyrighted material is being accessed by "circumventing" the CueCat encryption
• Digital Convergence may regard their "encryption" as a trade secret, but it is determinedly not illegal to reverse-engineer and reveal trade secrets (it would be a different matter if someone were revealing information obtained under an NDA or other privileged position, but that is not the case here)
• Digital Convergence may be hopping mad that people have reverse-engineered the CueCat and are using it for purposes that they didn't intend for it, but --- tough cookies. They certainly have the right to ask people nicely not to do it if they want, but their threatening letters are utterly spurious.

So why don't the people who are getting these letters write back, enumerate the above points, and simply refuse to take their software down?

Incidentally, since lawyers are likely to go to a site's ISP if the site admin isn't willing to budge, admins may also feel that their connectivity is at risk. It would be nice if the position of ISPs in situations like this were clarified so they could stand up to legal intimidation by saying "we are not responsible for the contents of our customers' sites and refuse to intervene in disputes of this sort."

Isn't it about time ..

[SirFlakey]

..that we get some legal advice how to (as legally as possible) express our opinions to those companies that sprout such cr@p. Should we perhaps have a Slashdot streamlined complaint letter that we send to the company executive officers?. Surely /. is now well known enough to "matter". I mean most of these company's (Amazon's 1-click ,DC, etc) target markets are represented right here.

In summary "There has got to be an effective way for us to let these idiots know ?"

Re:Where is www.OpenUPC.org?

[Basset]

Interesting, thanks for the info.

Now I am curious how fast a web site could gather such information. There must be millions of UPC codes out there. I am sure the guys who started CDDB were thinking the same thing at some point. I have never found a CD that the CDDB didn't know about.

I would imagine that the data would be created in an exponential fashion, with common items that everybody has in the cabinet (Coca-Cola comes to mind) coming in pretty fast.

Re:Not about the Database itself, but using :CC sc

[Paradise_Pete]

I never said he wasn't in favor of doing it, but that what you quoted him saying previously was exactly what a person making an excuse would say.

That would be a convenient excuse for a person who was wrong but didn't want to admit it. Therefore, it is worthless.

-Pete

Haha - the new age of aliases

[marcus]

>I've mostly scanned empty beer containers

Excellent idea!

As far as the ISDN bit goes, having a dedicated phone number that happens to be dedicated to a modem is wonderful fun for telemarketers I'm sure. Of course the real purpose of my extra line is roaming 'net access...

Anyway, it seems that many more of us are building aliases. I have a "real" phone number and a junk phone number, real email address and junk address, real userid/browser that has only been seen making purchases, another for surfing, my extended family and several friends proxy through my box via junkbuster just to help clutter the IP/cookie map, how long will these demographic databases be perceived to have any value?

DB

[onShore_Jake]

OMYGOD ive been looking for a DB of barcode stuff like that. As soon as I can get in im hoping that there are comic book, yes I said comic books, in there.

Re:Who ARE these people?

[Prior Restraint]

Are there any disgruntled former DC workers out there who can give us the scoop on how they could possibly be so out of touch?

That does it! I think it's high time there was a /. interview w/somebody at DC. Although this article might have been cathartic for CmdrTaco, the communication from DC seems more like a form letter (it's a little creepy to realize from the text that they think reverse-engineering is wrong/illegal).

I realize /. can't make someone do an interview, but it's obvious from the sheer number of these articles that CmdrTaco has an ongoing interest in this story. He should press the issue with DC, and while I doubt it would stop them in their tracks, it might give them pause to hear (hopefully) intelligent questions about the viability of their business model.

Re:i agree: enough cuecat

[onShore_Jake]

What quote? Are you ok?

Sigh

[waldeaux]

It's getting really insane when you can be sued because your data might have come from someone's hardware.

Stop the madness!

Re:Sigh

[jasonw61]

Here's good old James Rosini's page on the Kenyon & Kenyon. In case the name does not ring a bell, This is the guy who signed the legal paperwork that was sent to the Online Barcode Database.http://www.kenyonlaw.com/faboutus.htm Well actually you will search for his page due to the way the web site is set-up. lets send him a message, I did This is my third attempt to get a response concerning your so call IP rights to a piece of hardware that you freely and without restriction gave away. Now it seems that your company is attempting try to claim some sort of contract or ownership of this device and its output. Additionally you claim that use of this device if governed by a document you call a EULA. 1. What does this document have to do with this piece of hardware and why was I not informed about this so called EULA when if received my cue cat from radio shack? 2. Using US law as an example, explain to me how I can be held to an agreement, when the existence of this agreement was never disclosed to me? I would like an answer to the new and original questions, a lack of response to this second attempt to contact your company will be taken as clear evidence that you do not possess any documental IP rights to this device and are only engaged in a campaign to harass legitimate users of these devices. Begin original message. As I would like to release my own version of cue cat decoding software. 1. Please explain to me exactly what is your IP interest in the cue cat and how does it apply to US law? This so called IP interest is not mentioned at all on the web site and was not explained in your recent letter to slashdot.org. 2. Additionally are you saying that decoding or converting the output of a device that was sold to me for 00.00 dollars and is now owned by me, illegal? thank you

Re:Sigh

[SEWilco]

It's getting really insane when you can be sued because your data might have come from someone's hardware.

I look forward to the lawsuit from book publishers and food makers whose barcode data is being taken by Cue:C.A.T.

After all, the Cue:C.A.T. is being used to build a database of data which belongs to the manufacturers of books, food, drink...

Re:enough cuecat

[Xenix]

Amen...I'm in north texas where a local tv station has dumped $40 million in this project and I am bombarded on TV and Radio and now here...I agree...enough!

The revelvant patents

[hatless]

Looks like NeoMedia, whose patents DC apparently licenses, patented the concept of using a barcode with attached tracking data as a means to fetch a pointer ot network data. In 1999 and 2000. I'll bet this comes as a surprise to every maker of networked barcode-enabled applications from the past 20 years.

Then again, some other yahoos seem to have a fresh patent on the very idea of a database mapping UPC codes to product-related URLs.

Time to patent my Method of Organizing a Sock Drawer. Black socks on the left, white socks on the right, colored and patterened socks in the middle. Who's reviewing these patent applications? A family of parakeets? A bag of gravel with a face painted on it?

• US05933829
  
• US05978773
  
• US06108656
  

Bonus points: NeoMedia's other three patents cover the "windowing" approach to solving the Y2k problem. So it sounds like NeoMedia specializes in buying up patents of the obvious that somehow slip through, and suing everyone in sight.

Re:Fun with cue cat

[levik]

As far as i can guess, they probably verify the info later. I doubt it goes into the DB directly. But validating data is in this case an easier task than aquiring it.

My favorite...

[Pope Slackman]

"You've got questions, we've got blank stares."

--K
---

Re:Ask Digital Convergence for Postage...

[Paradise_Pete]

...The :CueCat reader is only on loan to you from Digital:Convergence and may be recalled at any time.

Who do they think they're kidding? A person who has "borrowed" something is obligated to take reasonable care of it. So according to this EULA, you can't throw it away, damage it, leave it laying around where it might be stolen, etc.

It's like a Trojan horse. Once you've let it into your house you're screwed.

Maybe next time I need to store some stuff I'll drop it off somewhere with a note at the bottom saying I'm loaning the stuff to them and I can come back for it whenever I want.

-Pete

Lots of interesting domain names!

[1010011010]

Here's what they currently have registered (thanks to Larry Gilbert for this list and to sed for formatting it):

digital -co nvergence.net
digitalc onv ergence.com
digitalc onv ergence.net
digitalc onv ergence.org
nettalki.com
nettalklive.com
pcwebcode.org
pcwebtone.org
pcwebwand.org
thewwwand.com
web-code.com
web-wand.com
webwand.orgCATFORFREE1.COM
CATFORFREE2.COM
CATFORFREE3.COM
CRQATEMYBALLS .CO M
CRQATEMYBALLS .NE T
CRQATEMYBALLS .OR G
CRQSUCK.COMCRQSUCK.NETCRQSUCK.ORGCUECATATEM YBA LLS.COM
CUECATATEM YBA LLS.NET
CUECATATEM YBA LLS.ORG
FREE1080CAT.COM
FREECATNOW1.COM
FREECATNOW2.COM
FREECATNOW3.COM
FREECATONTV1.C OM
FREECATONTV2.C OM
FREECATONTV3.C OM
FREEEDGECAT.COM
FREEHOT100CAT .CO M
FREERUSSCAT.COM
FREETICKETCAT .CO M
GETACATNOW1.COM
GETACATNOW2.COM
GETACATNOW3.COM
GETAFREECAT1.C OM
GETAFREECAT2.C OM
GETAFREECAT3.C OM
GETMYFREECAT1 .CO M
GETMYFREECAT2 .CO M
GETMYFREECAT3 .CO M
IWANTACAT1.COM&l t;/a>
IWANTACAT2.COM&l t;/a>
IWANTACAT3.COM&l t;/a>
IWANTAFREECA T1. COM
IWANTAFREECA T2. COM
IWANTAFREECA T3. COM
MYCATFREE1.COM&l t;/a>
MYCATFREE2.COM&l t;/a>
MYCATFREE3.COM&l t;/a>
MYFREECATNOW1 .CO M
MYFREECATNOW2 .CO M
MYFREECATNOW3 .CO M
SENDMEACAT1.COM
SENDMEACAT2.COM
SENDMEACAT3.COM
THESPOTTO.COM
WHATSONCRQ.COM&l t;/a>
WHATSONCRQ.NET&l t;/a>
WRITECONGRESS .CO M



___________________________

Re:Lots of interesting domain names!

[1010011010]

Sigh. Let's try this again, shall we, slashcode?




digital -co nvergence.net
digitalc onv ergence.com
digitalc onv ergence.net
digitalc onv ergence.org
nettalki.com
nettalklive.com
pcwebcode.org
pcwebtone.org
pcwebwand.org
thewwwand.com
web-code.com
web-wand.com
webwand.org CATFORFREE1.COM
CATFORFREE2.COM
CATFORFREE3.COM
CRQATEMYBALLS .CO M
CRQATEMYBALLS .NE T
CRQATEMYBALLS .OR G
CRQSUCK.COM CRQSUCK.NET CRQSUCK.ORG CUECATATEM YBA LLS.COM
CUECATATEM YBA LLS.NET
CUECATATEM YBA LLS.ORG
FREE1080CAT.COM
FREECATNOW1.COM
FREECATNOW2.COM
FREECATNOW3.COM
FREECATONTV1.C OM
FREECATONTV2.C OM
FREECATONTV3.C OM
FREEEDGECAT.COM
FREEHOT100CAT .CO M
FREERUSSCAT.COM
FREETICKETCAT .CO M
GETACATNOW1.COM
GETACATNOW2.COM
GETACATNOW3.COM
GETAFREECAT1.C OM
GETAFREECAT2.C OM
GETAFREECAT3.C OM
GETMYFREECAT1 .CO M
GETMYFREECAT2 .CO M
GETMYFREECAT3 .CO M
IWANTACAT1.COM&l t;/a>
IWANTACAT2.COM&l t;/a>
IWANTACAT3.COM&l t;/a>
IWANTAFREECA T1. COM
IWANTAFREECA T2. COM
IWANTAFREECA T3. COM
MYCATFREE1.COM&l t;/a>
MYCATFREE2.COM&l t;/a>
MYCATFREE3.COM&l t;/a>
MYFREECATNOW1 .CO M
MYFREECATNOW2 .CO M
MYFREECATNOW3 .CO M
SENDMEACAT1.COM
SENDMEACAT2.COM
SENDMEACAT3.COM
THESPOTTO.COM
WHATSONCRQ.COM&l t;/a>
WHATSONCRQ.NET&l t;/a>
WRITECONGRESS .CO M




___________________________

i agree: enough cuecat

[xtermz]

common. people are seeing how many privacy concerns this thing is using and are not using it. The company will flounder and then die, and we'll all move on to the next 'big privacy concern'. The message is out there, its on the wall...use these peoples crap at your own risk. ignore them and go on to something more pressing. those bastards in congress are dismantling our rights more than any company can every day, and yet we sit around and bitch about some cat shaped scanner. move on....damn

"sex on tv is bad, you might fall off..."

Re:speaking of this, anyone...

[glitch!]

ws3: {526} whois qcatsucks.com

Whois Server Version 1.3

Domain names in the .com, .net, and .org domains can now be registered
with many different competing registrars. Go to http://www.internic.net
for detailed information.

No match for "QCATSUCKS.COM".

>>> Last update of whois database: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 10:14:38 EDT

The Registry database contains ONLY .COM, .NET, .ORG, .EDU domains and
Registrars.

next: sue Al Gore

[unformed]

for creating the internet which makes it easy to find information that Big Business doesn't want you to know

(not a troll, meant to be funny :)

Re:next: sue Al Gore

[talesout]

sue Al Gore for creating the internet which makes it easy to find information that Big Business doesn't want you to know

Goddamn, if that isn't +5 Insightful than I've never seen a good post at all.

Re:next: sue Al Gore

[BlowCat]

... and 3.5 years of internet-free Saturdays!!!

Re:next: sue Al Gore

[SEWilco]

Albert Gore, Jr, certainly is being thorough. He created the Internet, taxed phone users to expand it into more schools , and now is trying to restrict what kind of data can flow through the Internet and your TV. [Except for the "created" phrasing, it's on AlGore.Com...] Oh, yeah, and he's trying to use our federal taxes to hire more teachers -- maybe more educational software was needed before the wiring parties.

Re:next: sue Al Gore

[scott@b]

Ah, but you have to get him elected first. Then sue him, the Republicans will take the cue and try to impeach him. Result - 4 years of inaction by the US Federal Government, perhaps the best thing that could happen to the country.

Re:next: sue Al Gore

[ccwatcher]

Now all the Pool Halls have to shut down since CC or its Lawyers D,C, and H now own the word "cue" and ALL its derivatives. The pool halls now have to send all of their pool cues to their "rightful" owner=CC (or D,C, and H). (Another truck-load of legal BS by ambulance chasers.)

stores

[dkh]

Not sure of the details here, site is slashdot'd already but... if these folks are being pestered because of a db of upc's what about all the retailers out there? I thought the whole idea of the upc was to provide machine readable id's - they're not proprietary or secret. I would assume that somewhere out there there is a public list of the company identifiers. Method of getting the data would seem to be irrelevant if it is already public knowledge.

Well..

[Auckerman]

What are they going to do for an encore, sue the US Power Grid for supplying the power to the CueCat so people won't be able to hack it anymore? I personally can't wait to see this go to a trial. I hope the judge laughs out loud in their face and sends them to be without dinner for acting like a bunch of two year olds.

Open Barcode Database

[eries]

Check out <a href="http://www.kuro5hin.org/?op=displaystory&si<nobr>d<wbr></wbr></nobr> =2000/9/18/175017/284">this story</a> on Kuro5hin.

Wheres the story?

[PotatoNO]

It appears upcdatabase.com is slashdotted at the moment. Where's the article you're refering to Taco? UPC codes have been around a lot longer than CueCat so I'm just curious what they think they could possibly sue upcdatabase for?

--
linkfilter.net: fresh links served daily.

Ask Digital Convergence for Postage...

[tjgrant]

I am probably short sighted, but I have no real use for a barcode scanner. I got my CueCat in the mail, so I went to the Digital Convergence Contact site, entered my information, and politely told them that I didn't agree with their EULA, and asked them to provide me with a shipping container and postage so I could return the scanner to them...

...I haven't heard from them yet

I wrote a little editorial about this subject on my website www.exceptionalminds.com/rhacer/s oap box

Stand Fast,

Re:Ask Digital Convergence for Postage...

[biftek]

I think the best strategy is gather as many as you can, neuter them, then box them up and send them to China or India where I'm sure there are lots of aspiring entrepenuers who find lots of uses for them.

Please, send them to Australia, I'm sure we can find some use for them here.....

Re:Ask Digital Convergence for Postage...

[Cy Guy]

At least your strategy is not as extreme as the one proposed by this ZDNet article

"Here's what I want you to do: Run down to RadioShack
and look really excited when you ask for one of the
scanners. Go to lots of RadioShacks and do this. When
you are done, disable the devices by cutting the
cords and dump them into the trash so as to keep
someone else from ending up with one by mistake.
Gather the ones the magazines are sending out from
your friends and trash them, too.
This company is just too idiotic to make someone rich.
And together we can keep it from happening. Let's
make Digital:Convergence understand that not
considering privacy can really kill a business."

I think the best strategy is gather as many as you can, neuter them, then box them up and send them to China or India where I'm sure there are lots of aspiring entrepenuers who find lots of uses for them.

Re:Ask Digital Convergence for Postage...

[gorilla]

I belive, according to USPS regulations, if you get something sent to you unsolicitated, inform the sender, and they do not pay for return shipping, then it then becomes your property. Unfortunatly, there isn't much on this on the USPS website, but at Federal law prohibits the shipment of unordered merchandise. Such a practice may constitute an unfair trade practice. Merchandise mailed in violation of United States Code may be treated as a gift by the recipient without any obligation to the sender.

Re:Ask Digital Convergence for Postage...

[Groundskeepr]

EULA? What? I didn't see a license agreement. There was something on the cover for the CD that came with it about "Opening this software constitutes acceptance of our License terms contained herein," so I didn't open the software. Plus, it said at Radio Shack "FREE", not "FREE*", so they can either leave me alone or open their partner up to a false advertising suit.

Either way is fine with me.

Re:Ask Digital Convergence for Postage...

[tjgrant]

Thanks for pointing out this article, much appreciated.

That said, I do believe that my proposal is more extreme than his. Mine actually hits the company at the bottom line by forcing them to outlay cash while his only prevents revenue from coming in.

(Actually, doesn't destroying them violate the new EULA?)

you may not decompile, reverse engineer, disassemble, modify, rent, lease, loan, sublicense, distribute or create derivative works based upon the :CRQ software or :CueCat reader in whole or part or transmit the :CRQ software over a network or from one computer to another. The :CueCat reader is only on loan to you from Digital:Convergence and may be recalled at any time. Without limiting the foregoing, your possession or control of the :CueCat reader does not transfer any right, title or interest to you in the :CueCat reader. Except as expressly permitted in this License, you may not reverse engineer, disassemble, modify, rent, lease, loan, sublicense, or distribute the :CueCat reader.

Of course, the chances of me ever seeing a dime from DC are slim-to-none, and the chances of people actually destroying those little things are much higher.

Either way is fine with me.

Stand Fast,

important off-topic

[Bad_CRC]

ok, I have one of these scanners now.

what do I do with it? Has anyone in the /. community found a really good use for one? I heard mention of a CD database at one time.

It's interesting scanning stuff for a while, but that wears off quickly. there must be something else they are good for.

ya, I know my karma is screwed, but I really want to know. these things are fun, but there must be an actual valid use for them other than finding websites.

________

DC is a shoe-in for that beanie!

[AFCArchvile]

"CueCat is going for this year's Useless Legal Action Beanie..."

As far as that Beanie goes, DC has already won it hands down.

Where is www.OpenUPC.org?

[Basset]

So, who in this community has the balz (and resources) to start OpenUPC.org with an interface similar to CDDB?

I would imagine that retailers make an awful lot of money selling their database of UPC codes to stores. Maybe they just give it to them so they can sell their products. Anybody know how grocery stores get all that information into their registers?

Re:Where is www.OpenUPC.org?

[ShortSpecialBus]

I used to be a (sort of) Assistant Manager at a Sentry Foods supermarket (One of the bigger ones owned by Fleming). We often got new products that were not entered into our system. Whenever we found one that wasn't in it, we would go enter it ourselves. Specifically, we had a Scan Coordinator who would enter in all the UPC's for anything that didn't register, and she also kept track of the pricing. As far as I know, we didn't buy any codes from the manufacturers. We could have gotten some of the codes from Fleming (the distributor) but I would have no idea if they paid for them. If they did it would have been pretty ridiculous, as it only takes a few seconds to enter in a code. Granted, for 10,000 products or whatever, that can be time consuming, but thats why you hire minimum wage Data Entry people. I seriously doubt that companies make any money from selling their UPC codes to grocery stores (or K-Mart or whatever for that matter). I could be wrong though.

Re:Where is www.OpenUPC.org?

[molog]

It would be a cool thing to do but you would have to get a line for the server, then you would need to get a machine to put it on, then put in your time. The first two can cost a little bit of money and that is probably the biggest issue to the whole thing. Would be a fun project though.
Molog

So Linus, what are we doing tonight?

What's the best protest against CueCat?

[macspam]

OK... How can we most effectively protest against CueCat? Some people say they'll throw their Cat away, others say they'll burn them. I thought of a couple more:

• Cut off their tails (cords) and mail the tail-less Cats to DC.
• Maybe mail them just a three-inch piece of the cord (cheaper to send this way).
• Make a CueCat "crush" video. Unfortunately, my wife doesn't own any spike-heeled shoes, and I can't get her to smoosh one of these with her bare toes.
• Send them letters written in CueCat "encrypted" text.
• Two words: Kitty Porn.
• Microwave their CD and mail it to them. In pieces so it'll fit in an envelope.

The last one is probably my favorite because it doesn't involve destroying my cat and it shows them I'm going to use it without their software.

C'mon, slashdotters! Can't you come up with something better?

FuCk It!!!!

[1010011010]

The message previews FINE, and then gets all FUCKED UP when I sumbit it!!!! Here's the list in plain text:

1. digital-convergence.net
2. digitalconvergence.com
3. digitalconvergence.net
4. digitalconvergence.org
5. nettalki.com
6. nettalklive.com
7. pcwebcode.org
8. pcwebtone.org
9. pcwebwand.org
10. thewwwand.com
11. web-code.com
12. web-wand.com
13. webwand.org
14. catforfree1.com
15. catforfree2.com
16. catforfree3.com
17. crqatemyballs.com
18. crqatemyballs.net
19. crqatemyballs.org
20. crqsuck.com
21. crqsuck.net
22. crqsuck.org
23. cuecatatemyballs.com
24. cuecatatemyballs.net
25. cuecatatemyballs.org
26. free1080cat.com
27. freecatnow1.com
28. freecatnow2.com
29. freecatnow3.com
30. freecatontv1.com
31. freecatontv2.com
32. freecatontv3.com
33. freeedgecat.com
34. freehot100cat.com
35. freerusscat.com
36. freeticketcat.com
37. getacatnow1.com
38. getacatnow2.com
39. getacatnow3.com
40. getafreecat1.com
41. getafreecat2.com
42. getafreecat3.com
43. getmyfreecat1.com
44. getmyfreecat2.com
45. getmyfreecat3.com
46. iwantacat1.com
47. iwantacat2.com
48. iwantacat3.com
49. iwantafreecat1.com
50. iwantafreecat2.com
51. iwantafreecat3.com
52. mycatfree1.com
53. mycatfree2.com
54. mycatfree3.com
55. myfreecatnow1.com
56. myfreecatnow2.com
57. myfreecatnow3.com
58. sendmeacat1.com
59. sendmeacat2.com
60. sendmeacat3.com
61. thespotto.com
62. whatsoncrq.com
63. whatsoncrq.net
64. writecongress.com

___________________________

Re:FuCk It!!!!

[phil reed]

writecongress.com ???


...phil

Re:FuCk It!!!!

[treat]

Wow - cuecatatemyballs.com! Boggles the mind.

DC announces IPO! WE CAN HELP!

[Anonymous Coward]

Digital Convergence just announced an IPO! Let's do our part on internet investment discussion boards to make sure that their potential investors are well-informed about this company!

• DC gives away hardware and expects revenue from use of its software. However, since its software stinks and is easily replaced, the business model is hosed.
• A recent letter from the president of the technology group at DC shows a total lack of understanding of IP law-- upon which the health of the company critically depends. (Or would depend, were the law favorable to their cause.)
• Apparently realizing the enormity of their error, DC has been sending vague, threatening letters to people who have found uses for CueCat that undermine their business model. Unfortunately, these letters appear to be a bluff.
• These threatening letters have incensed the open source community-- a group well-qualified to undermine DC's business model by providing alternate software to drive the CueCat, shutting of DC's revenue.
• The product raises privacy concerns, particularly in light of the recent hack into Digital Convergence's customer database.
• Just as the company's fundamental business model has come into serious question, they file for an IPO. Could this be a hasty attempt by execs to grab some cash before the ship sinks beneath the waves?

Be sure to relay only FACTS on internet discussion boards-- that will suffice. Of course, wouldn't it be a shame if frank and extensive discussion of these facts spoiled their $100 million IPO?

No. :-)

Biting the hand that feeds me...

[gimgol]

Anyone else considering dropping their WIRED subscription in protest over being "sold" to DC?

What's unsolicited

[JonCohen]

If you have a subscription from Forbes or Wired, then you've solicted whatever they decide to send you haven't you?

Re:What's unsolicited

[phil reed]

Perhaps, but then you've paid for it with the subscription fee for the magazine, and it's yours on the same terms that the physical copy of the magazine is yours.

An alternative view is that the subscription fee you paid is for the magazine subscription alone, and everything else is unsolicited.


...phil

I like how they think...

[slackergod]

I've just created a new device,
I call it the :Key:board.
This wonderful device is designed to faciliate
the translation of urls on paper into ASCII
character codes. To prove it's MINE, I've
rearranged the 'q' and 'w' keys, and
all output has been xor'ed with 0xf0.
By using any other method except my proprietary
:Keyboard:Reader:Software,
you are violating my god-given right to implement
my buisness plan, as well as my IP.

But don't worry, I'm not going to go after
you. I'm going to go after all the companies
who are facilitating URL lookups via my competitors...
I'm suing google, altavista, infind, msn, yahoo....
By gummy, I'm gonna be rich!

(for the humour impaired, that was a JOKE!)

On another note, while I am getting tired
of the cuecat articles, this one seemed particularly funny...
To respond to Mancide's question,
I think DC has gotten caught up in the
Napster-style fever that's sweeping the
corporate nation: Shoot^H^H^H^H^H sue the messenger!

Or in particular...
If someone provides a service, that could in some
way be used against your 'rights',
sue them, cause it would be to hard to sue the individuals.
It's a sad trend in modern legal affairs:
Look at older laws, such as the old copyright laws...
If you didn't pursue each individual, you lost it...
the idea being, if things got to the point that
you _couldn't_ feasably sue all the violators,
then the can of worms had been open too long,
you had been lax in your actions,
and deserved what you got.

Nowadays, it's more law-by-coverage:
sue _everyone_, make _everything_ in a category
illegal. Then you control the field.
Sadly, since our "justice" system is based
on legal precendent, not common sense,
(if we make a mistake, we're gonna stick with it!),
in(s)ane shit like this is bound to create
precedent sooner or later.

BTW, my christmas tree this year...
it'll be lit up by a daisy chain
of somethings glowing pretty red,
with ps2 cords on them.

-slackergod
(IANAL,IANARS,IANAC,IAARL)

CueCat called "fairly useless" at MediaNews.com

[Vassily Overveight]

Here's an article from MediaNews.com

Dallas Morning News president: People just love that CueCat!
"Our market research shows consumers love this product and can't wait to use it at home," says Robert W. Mong Jr., president and general manager of The Dallas Morning News. "I find that very reassuring." He should; his paper's parent has invested $40 million in the company making the device.
From RENEE HOPKINS: "You may have noticed that the Dallas Morning News' :CueCat artice carries no byline, only the cryptic 'from staff reports.' That tells me that my former DMN coworkers didn't want anyone's name associated with this biased puff piece. If the DMN staffers had been allowed to actually report on the OTHER side of the story -- that the :CueCat has so far received negative reviews for being a fairly useless and hard-to-use piece of technology -- the story would have been bylined."

Barcodes on the C64...

[SsC]

DC has to get a clue. Back in 1985 I wrote an inventory management program that was used at the liquor store next door to my house for quite a few years. It was done in C=64 BASIC, and used what barcodes were available on products. (Not *everything* had one then, IIRC.)

DC wasn't even a gleam in someone's eye then, nor was the 'Internet' anything that anyone outside the real ARPAnet knew about.

Things are getting to the point where i'm seriously considering leaving all this computer shit behind. They're great tools, but it's quickly becoming not worth the headache to do anything *purely* 'innovative' (to use an overabused term) or creative with them... or else be hounded by a million lawyers.


--

Re:Won't work- Here's what they MIGHT be using...

[1010011010]

It is in response to something that was, up until yesterday, on his site[...]

This is your local FBM representative speaking :) It's The Baltimore Sun that has an article about this cuecat mess:

When I asked Davis about the letters, he was a bit more specific but not much. "They're developing computer applications in our patent space," he said.

Pressed a bit more, he said the company is relying on a 1991 patent it acquired that covers the use of a standard bar code scanner to "create a network event."

This would be a fairly broad patent, and could keep others from using bar code readers for purposes that have nothing to do with Digital Convergence's core business.

If you can find the patent(s) in question, please email me. Search freshmeat for the software.

___________________________

Poisoning the DC database?

[Paul Neubauer]

I do not have a "CueCat" and am unlikely to get one as I don't see that it has any usefulness for me.

One thing that occurs to me is that DC is leaving themselve open to database poisoning (wow, another DC blunder... film at 11) unless they manually review each entry. Do they?

Suppose you "ACTUALLY MANAGE TO FIND AN ITEM NOT IN THE DATABASE" or whatever. How do they know you'll enter the correct site and info for it?

This may be a reason they would really like the serial number present. Suppose little Johny (Q. Public) scanned one of his comic books and was sent off to [pornsite]? DigitalConvergance would probably like to blame anyone but themselves for that, and ideally get whoever entered the false info. (Disclaimer: I expect server logs could be used to narrow it down without the serial number, so this is a Bad Idea - don't do this.)

Sure DC may be asking folks to do their work. Do they expect the work to be done correctly? Even without anyone being malicious (ooh, scan company X products and get competing company Y websites) I would expect a significant number of erroneous entries from typos and misunderstanding.

Re:enough cuecat

[Anomolous Cowturd]

Enough cuecat, when cuecat ceases to be an issue.

Right now, DC is throwing very fat lawyers at people who can't afford to fight them, and that's wrong, becuase it sets a *very* bad precedent.

I'm not in a position to interfere, since I don't live in the US, but I hope you guys over there make a lot of noise about this. Spread free drivers, write letters to media and politicians, and inform everyone who cares about this blatant abuse of your legal system.

Collecting marketing information is not very polite, but it's nothing compared to the legal stunts DC is pulling. Their "IP" claim is a joke, so do everything you can to undermine it.. because if they get away with it, thousands of imitators will crawl out of the woodwork to restrict your freedom on the internet in ways you've never imagined.

Because most of this shit starts in the USA, it's up to you Americans to protect the rest of the world by stomping it before it spreads. It's much harder to fight a corporation across international borders.

Re:More vauge lawsuit?

[BlueClaw]

Well, I'm starting to think that we should all put up different hacks for the scanner. That way in 6 months DC will be broke from legal fees from all the Fed-Ex'ing of these Expensive legal documents.
Are they going to sue all of us? Then again "You can't get blood from a stone"

Re:speaking of this, anyone...

[mrsalty]

i have indeed seen this infomertial, though i had hoped to this point that it was sleep delerium and not real. As for radio shack, they have sold out in EVERY imaginable way. The MS Everyday Internet? Howie Long? Brand Name merchendice? They have forgotten their roots and are adrift on a sea of marketing.

So...what are they supposed to stop doing?

[ryanr]

The page scans finally came up... took about 10 minutes.

They say that they might be infringing..stop it. They don't actually say what to stop. How are they supposed to comply, even if they wanted to?

What about other barcode readers?

[multiopsys]

From the way DC is going on, you'd think that they invented barcode scanning.
Do they even realize that someone out there might have a scanner that >>is not<< a Poo Cat?

Seems to me the real issue here is whether upcbarcode.com will stand their ground or fold under the threat of a lawsuit they can't afford, no matter how unjustified or unwinnable it is.

DC's panicky squealings used to be slightly amusing to me, but this is too much.

*This company is EVIL and must be DESTROYED!*

IDEA: If you travel a lot, say, for work, why not stop at the RS in every town you happen to be in and grab a Poo Cat under a false name?
We could have a contest to see who can get the most! ;^)

Re:Not about the Database itself, but using :CC sc

[Platinum Dragon]

In short, DC is going after someone once again for being able to read CueCat output. Rather like Adobe claiming they own that PDF you just produced of your master's thesis, and using xpdf to read it is a violation of their EULA. It's that stupid.

DC really didn't think this product through, did they? I have to ask; who are these jokers?
-------------

Re:More vauge lawsuit?

[Tralfamadorian]

I use my CueCat daily. I altered the GNU barcode library to be able to print text labels above the barcodes, and then I made a small python app to generate random barcodes and then take a list of album names and print the barcodes with the labels above the random barcodes. Then I made an Gnome applet that changes your XMMS playlist depending on the barcode you can into the applet's text box (you also have to build a text file with barcode/file relationships for the applet to read.

I'm thinking about distributing it once I get the GNU barcode label code cleaned up. I blindly added code to the library without understanding how it really worked (though it probably has bugs, it does seem to work fairly well).


He who knows not, and knows he knows not is a wise man

Re:Sue'em all

[talesout]

Down with:

• Hy-Vee
  
• Shopko
  
• Walmart
  
• Sunshine Foods
  
• Econo Foods
  
• Cub Foods
  
• every store in existence...
  

I honestly do not see how DC can even imagine staying in business if they are paying lawyers to cook up this kind of garbage. Of course, it works for other companies, so who knows. We don't need a good idea, we need more lawyers!

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Thanks DC!

[leperjuice]

I just got off a site today. My client has a small store and he wanted a barcode scanner for his point-of-sale terminal. Someone told him that it would cost him $15,000US to do this. I set him up with my CueCat and a copy of Catnip.

Cost?

Free!

Thanks Digital Convergence!

Re:Thanks DC!

[mami]

What a nonsense. Stupid. A barcode scanner other than the CueCat costs anywhere from $90.00 and up.

Thank you, DC ? What for ? That people wanted to scan something with a gift, they didn't ask for, without being abused for hidden marketing purposes of their personal data ? And then getting sued for doing what any person with some common sense would do with such a gift ?

You gotta be kidding. No thanks, DC!

Free CueCats and lawyer boy charges

[joeuser]

At this rate they'll have to start charging for them, or atleast per scan. Maybe they can put one of them new spangled one dollar coin slots in them. No wait, that owuld choke my 56k out, nevermind. Just get UPC's on our credit cards. Wait, if you have to pay for before use, then that wouldn't work either. Uhm, why not just save some money by not hiring lawyers and snoopers to check sites about the CueCat and just leave open sourcing alone.
P.S. If you fold your toilet paper over 3 times to wipe your ass, I think you should know my lawyer boy will be in touch with you, I own that idea. We'll be in touch.

Re:I like the cue cat posts

[Colbey]

Digital Convergence delenda est. Carthago DigitalConvergenceque delendi sunt.

Re:Won't work- Here's what they MIGHT be using...

[Svartalf]

Greetings! I couldn't remember which big paper it was- Thanks!

Keep plugging away at these clowns- they deserve every drop of agony that's about to come to them.

Just got my letter...

[Izaak]

I just received my first threatening legal letter. It is from Trek Bicycle Corp. regarding my SkillTrek trademark. It seems the Trek Bicycle company feels they own all rights to the dictionary word Trek, even when it is used in areas that have nothing to do with bicycles. The funny thing is, a google search of the word Trek returns a zillion Star Trek sites, but nothing on Trek bicycles (at least not on the first few pages of results).

I also searched on the USPO trademark database, and turned up several hundred trademarks with the word trek in them. Only six of them were owned by the trek bicycle corp. Did all of these other trademark holders get a letter? Some of these trademarks have been in effect for quite a few years, so I doubt it?

It looks to me like a tipical corporate scare tactic, but I will nevertheless have to expend money to have my attorney blast back a letter basicly telling them to get bent (but in legal terms).

Sigh. And I even own a Trek mountain bike. Oh the irony.

Thad

Re:Not about the Database itself, but using :CC sc

[Nutsodog]

From this info, it sounds like the problem is with the CGI decoding script, not the database. Unless someone proves that the encoding is not covered under IP (even though it is elementary) upcdatabase.com may have to comply. However, if everyone downloaded the decoding driver to their local machines and and sent the already decoded output to upcdatabase.com then there is nothing DC could do about it.

Re:enough cuecat

[miscellaneous]

yeah, i'm sure rob & co. sit around all the time saying to themselves, "ya know, this a pretty damned interesting story, but i'm just gonna hafta leave it out so's we can put in another cuecat story!"

Give em an earfull

[jasonw61]

Here's good old James Rosini's page on the Kenyon & Kenyon.
In case the name does not ring a bell, This is the guy who signed the legal
paperwork that was sent to the Online Barcode Database .
http://www.kenyonlaw.com/faboutus.htm James Rosini
Well actually you will search for his page due to the way the
web site is set-up. lets send him a message,
I did.
This is my third attempt to get a response concerning your so call IP rights to a piece of hardware that you freely and without restriction gave away. Now it seems that your company is attempting try to claim some sort of contract or ownership of this device and its output. Additionally you claim that use of this device if governed by a document you call a EULA. 1. What does this document have to do with this piece of hardware and why was I not informed about this so called EULA when if received my cue cat from radio shack? 2. Using US law as an example, explain to me how I can be held to an agreement, when the existence of this agreement was never disclosed to me? I would like an answer to the new and original questions, a lack of response to this second attempt to contact your company will be taken as clear evidence that you do not possess any documental IP rights to this device and are only engaged in a campaign to harass legitimate users of these devices. Begin original message. As I would like to release my own version of cue cat decoding software. 1. Please explain to me exactly what is your IP interest in the cue cat and how does it apply to US law? This so called IP interest is not mentioned at all on the web site and was not explained in your recent letter to slashdot.org. 2. Additionally are you saying that decoding or converting the output of a device that was sold to me for 00.00 dollars and is now owned by me, illegal? thank you Jason W

Re:Have you filed your complaint with the USPS?

[don_carnage]

Actually, it's not necessary to "de-claw" your cuecat...you can simply not use their program and you're fine. Just use these rules when retrieving data from their servers:

http://[server].dcnv.com/CRQ/1..[activation code].04.[cuecat scan].0

[Server] can be a, o, s, t, or u. [activation code] is supposed to be the activation code you get from your registration, but can be simply "ACTIVATIONCODE", or any other random bit of data. [cuecat scan] is the raw output of the device, minus the "", with case inverted. The first section of the scan is your scanner id, and I've found that you can use just about anything for that.

What you get in return is something that looks a little like this:

cat=0
url=http://www.slashdot.org
desc=Stuff that matters
...

--

new but not?

[ahuimanu]

I suppose this is more editorial. Barcode scanners are available from anywhere, are they really suing him because he is storing UPCs? Ranks high for comedic value then.
-A

Re:More vauge lawsuit?

[Tackhead]

> Apparently, DC doesn't like the fact that you can use a CueCat to drive the database query. It's not the database proper, it's the CueCat decode programming.

So they sue the database?

This is :Clueless, even for :CueCat.

Re:enough cuecat

[skoda]

OTOH, since /. only posts ~12 articles/day, every CueCat article is one less article on something else, that could be more interesting.

Personally, I find the whole CueCat thing fascinating, but I understand the dissenters' dis-interest.
-----
D. Fischer

Burning?

[Kreeblah]

Just be careful. They have a tendancy to explode when they're heated, sending out large volumes of shrapnel. Maybe the "killer app" for these is in hand grenades . . .

Re:enough "enough cuecat"

[CFN]

you are probably joking, but just in case:
Why do you care so much about stopping posts you don't want to read?

Re:Radio Shack!

[Nullsmack]

lol, and the local rat shack uses a round hole punch to punch the damn battery cards...
I forgot about that and tried to use it at another rat shack and the fuckers thought I was trying to cheat.. assholes
-since when did 'MTV' stand for Real World Television instead of MUSIC television?

Fun with cue cat

[levik]

Well, a guy in our office has brought one in the orher day, for about three hours it let us diverge from the Path2Profitability. We were just scanning stuff left and right. Here are the cool things you can do with it:

scan a cd: if you are lucky, you'll be taken to the label's site. the front page of it. if, not they'll tell you you've ACTUALLY MANAGED to find a UPC they don't have, and will offer you to do their dirty job for them by entering the info about it.

scan a book: if you are lucky (i.e. if it's been on the NYT besteller list in the past month or so), you'll be taken to the publisher's site. the front page of it. if, not (almost any other book) they'll tell you you've ACTUALLY MANAGED to find a UPC they don't have, and will offer you to do their dirty job for them by entering the info about it.

scan a frappuccino bottle: and you get taken to the pepsi cola site. what starbucs has to do with pepsi is beyound my meager grasp...

the part where they don't know what the hell a UPC is for comes up more often than you'd expect, given the surprized wording on that page. Perhaps they could use a central database themselves :)

Re:Fun with cue cat

[connorbd]

More ideas:

-Create your own online database to piss off DC/provide the service to others who can't afford the ad fees.
-Scan things that don't involve CueCat/ISBN/UPC codes. I happen to know it will scan my library card (Codabar) beautifully.

As for Sbux and Pepsi -- I work for Starbucks. We give them the coffee, they make the bottled Frappucino and sell it. Sometimes back to us.

/Brian

Re:Fun with cue cat

[HobNob]

That's interesting... so they don't have much of a database themselves? They want the users to do the grunt work of entering the info?

(No doubt this features prominently in their pitch to the VCs... "No need to buy a database or hire anyone; Our users are all stupid and will do all the tedious work for us, so we can then sell it. Big Win.")

So, what's to stop you entering a load of crap for all the barcode you can find (e.g. links to goatse.cx)? You're not under any kind of oblication to enter truthful infomation. You'll probably want to randomize your serial number first, though, so they can't easily trash all your entries.

-- Bob

Im confused

[DzugZug]

I didn't see an article so I don't know where the answers to any of these questions are. Why are they suing the upc service? What legal grounds do they have? Is there some pattent or something on having a database of UPC entries? Wouldn't every grocery store in America be violating it?

It's important to note that you can't copyright a database. There was a surpreme court case about this (Fiest Publications, Inc. v. Rural Telephone Service Co., Inc.) in which one company stole the white pages from another company's phone book. The majority decision (written by Justice O'Conner) stated that copyright does not extend to a logical ordering of information.

Therefore, even if upcdatabase.com STOLE the database from DC, DC would not have any legal recourse.

Re:Honestly . . .

[online-shopper]

What do you mean they don't make you popular, Software(and some hardware) companies have been doing that for years.

funny :)

[Frederic54]

i have posted a link to upcdatabase.com in the last discussion about the cuecat, yesterday i think :) saying i added some stuff to the database, eraser, cigarette, lighter, CD-R, etc
i love this base :)
--

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[account_deleted]

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Re:Not about the Database itself, but using :CC sc

[Jeff DeMaagd]

There doesn't seem to be a whole lot stopping anyone else from making their own database.

Right now, I don't see anything on whether the software that manages the data is "open source". AFIAK, the database data isn't really subject to the open source debate, so not really subject to "open source" theology.

Just because I use open source software doesn't mean that all the data I create with it should automatically be freely available to anyone.

I believe a totally public scan code dB would be great though. And make a totally independent and transparent front-end so that crap:(cat input is translated before the request is sent, so the database site isn't subject to cease-and-desist because the software isn't on the site.

Why is DC so stupidly arrogant?

[Lxy]

Of course when companies release some new thing that has anything remotely associated with the internet, they play it up like it's going to change the internet forever. Digital Convergence is A) claiming the CueCat is the greatest invention since the mouse (check their website) B) they WON THE WAR against hackers C) If it has a UPC on it, it must be violating their EULA somehow and D) Even though they give their hardware away with (in version 1.0) no EULA mentioning the decompilation or reverse engineering of the hardware, that they own it outright and you can't do anything they don't want you to. I don't know if it's arrogance, ignorance, or just plain stupidity, but DC has what I consider first of all to be the dumbest idea about how to surf the web (I buy a can of Mountain Dew, I'm too dumb to try www.mountaindew.com???) and second of all the guts to run around suing anything mentioning the word UPC. What's next, are they going to start suing Walmart for using barcodes because they COULD be purchased by a consumer who MIGHT use his own software to do something with it? This is ludicrous, plain and simple. Of all the people I've talked to (including people who would be inclined to install it as suggested by DC) not ONE SINGLE PERSON has installed the software provided with the Cue Cat. They've either disassembled them, thrown them away, or given them to someone else who will disassemble it to make a flashlight.

"You'll die up there son, just like I did!" - Abe Simpson

A CueCat decoder for your .signature file

[vaxer]

CueCat decoder .signature by Larry Wall:
#!/usr/bin/perl -n
printf "Serial: %s Type: %s Code: %s\n", map { tr/a-zA-Z0-9+-/ -_/; $_ = unpack
'u', chr(32 + length()*3/4) . $_; s/\0+$//; $_ ^= "C" x length; } /\.([^.]+)/g;

Re:speaking of this, anyone...

[Michael O-P]

Damn. cuecatsucks.org, .com, net are all taken:

DigitalConvergence, Inc. (CUECATSUCKS3-DOM)
9101 N Central Expy
Suite 600
Dallas, TX 75231
US

Domain Name: cuecatsucks.com

Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact, Billing Contact:
Oakes, Noel (NO59) noakes@OAKES.COM
E. T. Oakes Corporation
686 Old Willets Path
Hauppauge, NY 11788
(516)232-0002

Record last updated on 22-Sep-2000.
Record expires on 22-Sep-2002.
Record created on 22-Sep-2000.
Database last updated on 28-Sep-2000 07:59:47 EDT.

Domain servers in listed order:

NS1.DCNV.COM 216.33.117.134
NS2.DCNV.COM 216.33.117.135

Information on Mr. Rosini

[Trailer Trash]

Here's his page: http://www.keny on. com/virtual.cfm?FullName=James%20E%2E%20Rosini

They wiped the thick coat of slime off him before taking the picture.

His email is jrosini@kenyon.com.

More revelvant patents

[eclectro]

Actually, if you take a close look at these patents, you have to ask yourself "What's going on here???".

First, let's backtrack to the one patent that we know that Digital Convergence has.

That would be this one:
Patent #6,098,106 Method for controlling a computer with an audio signal. Granted Aug 1, 2000

This one references the above patents mentioned in parent post. We know this patent by that cable you can plug from your TV to your computer.

What is interesting is this little blurb in the patent;

This application is related to copending U.S. patent application Ser. No. 09/151,471, entitled, "METHOD FOR INTERFACING SCANNED PRODUCT INFORMATION WITH A SOURCE FOR THE PRODUCT OVER A GLOBAL NETWORK" filed of even date herewith.

But this patent has yet to be granted, and is probably the one that they think is going to (or already does in their minds) protect their IP.

Call me a nit picker, but isn't "global network" the same as "the internet"???

isn't that the same as "clent/server"????

So if they manage to get this patent (I wouldn't put it beyond the patent office), they would essentially be patenting location.

But this raises a deeper question (like from an outhouse :)), Isn't "Global Network" the same as "Web Browser". Parsing "Web Browser" (I know, it's sinking lower, but it's not my fault), it is intended to mean (or is a shorter version of) "World Wide Web Browser".

So, isn't "World Wide Web" or "Global Network" or "Internet" interchangable??

Maybe this is one of those "Business Methods" patents. If it is, then it might be infringing on this patent;

patent #5,918,214 System and method for finding product and service related information on the internet. IPF inc - filed Oct 25, 1996 - granted June 29, 1999 Classification 705/27:DATA PROCESSING: FINANCIAL, BUSINESS PRACTICE, MANAGEMENT, OR COST/PRICE DETERMINATION:Electronic shopping (e.g., remote ordering) - Presentation of image or description of sales item (e.g., electronic catalog browsing).

Let's review the Neomedia patent;

patent #5,978,773 System and method for using an ordinary article of commerce to access a remote computer. Neomedia Technologies - filed Oct 3, 1995 - granted Sept 2, 1999 Classification 705/23:DATA PROCESSING: FINANCIAL, BUSINESS PRACTICE, MANAGEMENT, OR COST/PRICE DETERMINATION:. Including point of sale terminal or electronic cash register - . . Input by product or record sensing (weighing, scanner processing).

Then, let's compare it to this one;

patent #5,804,803 Mechanism for retrieving information using data encoded on an objectIBM - filed April 2, 1996 - granted - Sept 8, 1998 Classification 235/375:REGISTERS:SYSTEMS CONTROLLED BY DATA BEARING RECORDS.

First, let me state that IANAL before I make these observations;

Clearly, what is been patented here is "use" more than anything. The claims on some of these patents are so utterly specific that half a turn on a screw would make them a different patent. One could cogently argue that novelty is lost in the patent office. The IBM patent while filed later than Neomedia one seems to cover the actual working setup, in which case Digital Convergence may need a license from them (if they don't have one already). What's left is "The doing business this way" patents.

Second; this is valid if and only if all these patents are valid (Hold up in court). So, if you are hauled into court remember that chances are quite high that the judge will be technically illiterate and judgement may rest on who dresses the nicest.

Third; No business practice should interfere with freedom of speech. I am positive that allot of IP holders are assuming now that they are empowered to control what you say. Again, depending on which judge they may be able to buy, they might be right.

Fourth; I just covered scanning "objects". There's a whole slew of Metrologic patents that cover scannning "printed" barcodes and going to the internet and variations thereof. I wonder if Digital Convergence has licensed those?? Maybe they think that they can use "slanted line barcodes" like in the radioshack catalog and that makes it different. Knowing the patent office, that could be the case. But if I were Metrologic I'd be looking for a piece of DC's butt.

Fifth; IBM might be reasonable on licensing their patent to GPL applications. This would benifit IBM as it would help validate the use of their patent and find other possible applications for this technology. And as long you don't use your barcode scanner to go to a catalog or show where you can buy something or show it's price (i.e. commercial applications, because there are probably countless variations on a theme here, and other hostile companies like Digital Convergence) you wouldn't be infringing on other patents. They probably will be easier to work with than Digital Convergence in any event.

Most importantly, if I were on the receiving end of one of these letters by Digital Convergence I would find a smart lawyer and have him write a letter back asking for specific information as to what patents/IP (as the DMCA could come into play) you are violating. Without them presenting this information, they really don't have a right to crow. If the patent that they quote is one that they don't own, then they may not have standing. But again, let your lawyer decide that.

As citizens, we really do need to take back our "fair use" rights.

Re:Not about the Database itself, but using :CC sc

[Karmageddon]

Nice attempt at recursion, but if you go back and read the thread you'll see I need no excuses. I explicitly said that I did not know the veracity of the statement, but that I didn't find his excuse particularly convincing. Read the thread, then you won't have to try to put words in my mouth in order to make your pointless point.

The problem with you children I'm arguing with is that if you disagree with someone, you get all hot under the collar and start spouting nonsense. You could say, "I disagree" without throwing a hissy fit.

Re:I like the cue cat posts

[kfg]

Where's a good phalanx when you need one.

Remember though, they disarmed Carthage first, but Carthage managed to rearm itself before the fight, and the siege was long.

Re:Another use for Cue:Cat, colon cancer detection

[leob]

You cannot detect colon cancer with a thing that has colon cancer itself (:Cue:C.A.T.). And it's spreading! If it becomes :Cue:C:A:T: it will not be advisable to make it touch any part of your colon.

Mail a Scanner

[Dwaine Garden]

It's too bad that the people in Canada can not be a part of the DC world. I tried to send an online request for their IP cuecat. They told me that they could not ship their product. Anyone willing to lick a stamp to a cuecat and send me one? Better yet send about 1000 of them and I can give them away around Toronto. I would include in the package a diskette or link informaton to the linux drivers ;)

DC is AFRAID of UPC databases...

[human bean]

These folks get their money by selling demographics.

Nobody buys demographics if they are wrong.

Hypothetically, someone could use a good-sized database of UPCs to make false cue-cat scans, and send them to DC's servers.

There is no way for DC to tell which ones are real or bogus. There is no way for DC's customers to tell, either.

DC's customers will eventually find this out. Maybe somebody should spare them the trouble and tell them up front.

Thanks DC

[gorilla]

I'm about to look at cataloging my books. I was planning to use a lookup on Amazon to get the details from the UPC code, but this looks like it will be a better resource. (Note, I'll be typing the barcode manually, since I don't have any reader, and I don't belive Radio Shack canada is distributing the cuecats. I have no moral concerns about using one if I'm wrong though).

Got any more good sites you want to tell us about?

Re:enough cuecat

[jallen02]

And they are all over wired magazine now too.

Re:its quite sad

[homebru]

But if you had printed out a barcode "Cue", they could have scanned it and known exactly what you were talking about.

They might or might not have had it, but they could have scanned your "Cue" and that would have made the experience all worth your trip.

Oh, gosh! New business idea coming up. After store clerk scans barcode in catalog, computer either says "Nope, we don't stock that. Go away." or a strobe light goes off over one of the racks in the back of the store and you go look there.

This business idea hereby placed into the public domain.

Re:Honestly . . .

[luckykaa]

It seems quite obvious that they have no real teeth. The first time they complained it gave everyone a bit of a scare, but since they failed to try to back up their claim of IP infringement, and started making more and more vague threats, it has become apparent that they are just trying to scare people away from their turf.

Since they're a tiny insignificant company who aren't going to be around for a lot longer unless they come up with a viable business plan, I think everyone should just ignore them and see if they go away.

Re:Not about the Database itself, but using :CC sc

[Karmageddon]

the reason his database isn't publicly available is because he got a lot of seed data for it from a third-party source with the agreement that the entire DB wouldn't be made publicly available. (No evil closed-source-ness conspiracies here

This would be a convenient excuse for a person who did not believe in open-source. Therefore, it is worthless. I'm not saying it's not true, but that we can't tell that it is: it looks just like the excuse any "proprietor" would offer.

Some more info on upcdatabase

[DigitalDragon]

On of the projects I've been working on was pricecheck application. For this, you have to know all possible UPC codes that are out there.

It is true, www.upcdatabase.com does not share its database with anybody, *but*, although there are half million records out there, it does not mean that they are all correct! They are not. In fact, you can add your own record in their database quite easily. So this means that you can't rely on that.

There is not a single company out there that offeres full UPC codes set, only small subsets are available. Now if anyone disagrees, please reply with a fact.

Re:Here's an idea

[luckykaa]

Judging by their legal knowledge, I think I could get an out of court settlemnet based on their breach of copyright of this post.

Wacky patent. So why not circumvent HTTP for now?

[hatless]

A barcode-to-web-lookup patent, especially if awarded in the last 15 years, would be especially nutty. Barcode scanners have been used to trigger data lookups across networks for as long as there have been barcodes. I find it hard to believe that shop-floor, factory and warehouse barcode readers weren't being used to pull up mainframe data 20-plus years ago. Must find this NeoMedia patent. Sounds on the face of it like yet another bit of galling ineptitude at the USPTO.

Hey! I have an idea! How about rigging, say, a modified finger daemon to hand out item URLs to scanning applications. Then the lookups wouldn't be done "on the web".

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

That and FuckedCompany.com itself.

Honestly . . .

[Badgerman]

My impression of CueCat (and this is from limited data, admittedly) is that they have no idea how the internet, software, and computer world work in general.

Lawsuits do not make you popular, screwing around with data does not make you popular, and posturing does not make you popular.

You have to wonder if that company's left hand knows what the right hand is doing. That, to me, seems to be a major cause of internet/lawsuit/technical stupidity today.

More vauge lawsuit?

[Mancide]

What exactly is DC looking to accomplish here? UPCs are Universal Product Codes, I don't recall them having a patent or copyright or anything on these... so why is it hurting them for a site having an online database? Frankly, this would be about the only thing I might use my CueCat for, if someone developed an app to read this database and make a database of all my CDs or DVDs, then that stupid Cat thing on my desk might get some use other than a red keyboard light.

Maybe this will open someone's eyes up in Washington and they will start picking at DC's business practices...

Re:More vauge lawsuit?

[Mancide]

Wow, sounds like you wanted a useful program to utilize that damn Cat... = ]

Well, to defend my earlier post, this use of the :Cue:Cat programming isn't /hurting/ the company. With the Linux programs that were sending info to :Cue:Cat's servers, I can see why they wouldn't like this, but this isn't sending data to them, or even sending false data. This just uses the :Cue:Cat to scan it's own database.

Next, DC is going to change the EULA again to state that you can only use the :Cue:Cat to scan :Cues, and not UPC codes...

Personally, I don't know where this is going, but I'd like to see the EFF back UPCdatabase.com and let this go to court... I think his usage has fair use written all over it... It's not harming DC, and it's not utilizing any of thier programs or server resources...

I may be wrong, but this is my opionion...

Re:More vauge lawsuit?

[phil reed]

No, they sue the site for providing the capability of decoding CueCat data streams without going through the DC servers.


...phil

Re:More vauge lawsuit?

[phil reed]

Apparently, DC doesn't like the fact that you can use a CueCat to drive the database query. It's not the database proper, it's the CueCat decode programming.


...phil

My info to Digital Convergence ...

[knghtbrd]

I wrote an email to Digital Convergence about CueCat drivers, offering to work with them even though I don't have to (I've proven that I don't in fact have to do so given any of the possible legal claims they could possibly have over me. Neither their shrinkwrap software license nor Copyright nor Trademark nor patent can stop me from doing whatever I want with their hardware..)

Dispite their claim of being interested in working with someone to create an official Linux driver, they're not. I sent a very polite message explaining what I have done and asking them for what I would need to give them their demographics information so that my driver could be distributed without interfering with their business model. They didn't even reply.

I'm busy at work lately, but expect me to return to patch up this driver for release in a few weeks or so if I'm lucky. Their legal department doesn't scare me. They have no intellectual property rights against me to defend, any legal threats would be empty.

I like the cue cat posts

[LennyDotCom]

so if you have a problem with this cue cat stuff

JUST IGNORE IT

Re:I like the cue cat posts

[Jeff Nelson]

I Live in dallas, so i filled in the address for DC's headquarters as my home address ;-) Evil.

Re:I like the cue cat posts

[Groundskeepr]

As it happens, I filled out *nothing* at Radio Shack. Since I didn't buy anything, they didn't ask for my phone number, either.

Re:I like the cue cat posts

[Anonymous Coward]

DO NOT IGNORE Digital Convergence.

This organization is probably the most evil direct marketing organization ever constructed, every CueCat device has a serial number that is sent with barcode data that is swiped. On top of that they want you hook up your computer to your TV so your TV can control your computer. You can see this in action on the Infomercial they started running, the theme of Angels from Heaven watching the activities of the residence of the Town of Convergence, USA isn't very far away from a big corporation collecting data from everyone to see if they're being naughty or nice consumers. They want you to think you're in control. It isn't about where you want to go and do, it's all about them collecting datapoints about what TV shows you watch, what products you have in your home, what magazines you read, what books you own, and what foods you eat.

DO NOT IGNORE Digital Convergence.

DC's Executive Bio's is a laundry list of people everyone hates, direct marketers and data miners. These are the people who create the databases of people, the ones that get sold to telemarketers that call you every day of the work week during dinner to do a "consumer survey." You think your telephone sucks now? Imagine what life will be like when someone calls you to offer you coupons for everything you ever scanned, only if you buy them from their catalog or bring the coupons to their store.

DO NOT IGNORE Digital Convergence.

This is the true begining of the war on our privacy. They want people to scan everything, and I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually suggest tatooing barcodes on your wrist for the ultimate digital wallet application. Christans might have some choice words about that event when it happens.

Some people might make light of all their gaffes with privacy and security. Don't brush them off just because of their incompetence so far. They will get better at what they do and the value of their "data" will escalate. Don't bet for a minute that your profile data won't be sold to Visa, MasterCard, American Express, Banks, Experian, Transunion, or Equifax.

You did fill out a fake name and address when you got your CueCat from Radio Shack. Didn't you?

Digital Convergence delenda est.

Re:I like the cue cat posts

[mykey2k]

You think your telephone sucks now?
Sure do. I don't answer it at all. And if someone got my # from DC, they won't get me at all. They'll get my ISDN secondary line, which is always busy. :)

As for coupons, the more the better. I've mostly scanned empty beer containers :)

-m

Don't host in the USA

[PsyQ]

All these projects, not totally unlike DeCSS and the likes, basically anything that big stupid US corporations hate, could profit from hosting outside the USA. Well, not just hosting, but a bit more.

I'd be willing to host any of these projects on one of the machines I have access to. I'm in Switzerland, so none of the EU and definitely none of the US laws apply here. If Kenyon and Kenyon wanted to send me one of those cute legal letters, fine, they could. If they wanted it to have any legal effect at all, they'd have to spend quite some money or work their connections to Swiss law offices. I doubt that they would do that, at least not quickly. International law experts might want to give me a little more wisdom in that area, though =)

Sooo.. If you think this is a good idea and have some CueCat related stuff to host, I guess I might be able to give you some free webspace and take full responsibility for hosting should any (valid) legal action be taken against me. Wow, I almost sound like a lawyer.

Serious slashdot effect

[selectspec]

Serious slashdot effect

Re:enough cuecat

[kuiken]

If the article doesnt interest you ... DONT READ IT...
Is it so hard to understand that some readers find this funny/scary that you cant restrain yourself from trolling?

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[account_deleted]

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Re:Not about the Database itself, but using :CC sc

[Karmageddon]

It's nice of you to conveniently ignore the rest of my sentence

don't be a jerk: the rest of your sentence had nothing to do with the issue at hand.

However, you might be interested to note this update ... so that the database can be redistributed.

That is interesting, and cause for celebration. I never said he wasn't in favor of doing it, but that what you quoted him saying previously was exactly what a person making an excuse would say.

You've got a point

[marcus]

But until they put the serial number scanner into the checkout lane, your bills will be mixed with all the others at the grocery store. All they'll know is that you spent somewhere between X-20 and X dollars there. Just keep stirring things up by exchanging those 20's with all of your friends.

I guess we could eventually retreat to those "gold" $1 coins.

Details, please?

[Jay Maynard]

The story, as posted, doesn't mention any details, or refer to any other pages where we might learn more...

As for those who are complaining about yet another barcode-reading feline story, this one has wider implications than just the privacy and corporate idiocy we've seen so far. Whatever basis DC claims to have for suing, I can't see how they expect not to immediately be laughed out of court.
--

Patent this!

[Webmoth]

Rumor has it that Digital Convergence has claimed "intellectual property" on sequential black and white vertical lines.

I guess this means that zoological parks around the world will be receiving "cease and desist" letters re: zebras.

Do they think they own BARCODES?

[sid_vicious]

For goodness sakes, does this company think they own the IP for barcodes?? Or that they invented the idea of an online database??

Or do they think that somehow combining the two represents a brand new idea that should be protected from competition?

Yeesh. I don't remember anyone promising these people that they had some God-given RIGHT to make money and trample everyone else in the process. If you want to make money in a capitalist marketplace, offer a *better* product for *less* money!

Sue'em all

[homebru]

Probably easier than trying to sue all of the companies who published their own barcodes without DC's permission.

We should expect them to go after retailers and wholesale distributors next. As well as all the other companies who use barcodes to index into a database. Gee, that covers a lot of territory, doesn't it?

It's Not about database.

[FoxIVX]

This letter wasn't sent in regards to the database he has amassed, they would have no legal griveance over that. However, like the rest of us, he has a perl script that you can scan your :cue:cat directly into, and use it as your search query, this "violating" their IP. This is what they're pissed about, just like the other hackers who got letters. They probably dont like that there is a competing database of UPC codes, but certainly have no legal right to go after them for that.

-Josh

Mouse balls, get it?

[Forgotten]

Those are peculiar choices, but I think they may be only partly intended to squat on possible "sucks" domains. Remember that the way they apparently suckered some of their VC backers was by convincing them that their barcode reader would eventually replace the mouse (that's also the point of making it look like a cat, which is otherwise pretty inexplicable). This is pretty funny because it shows how those same large company investors view web users - as consumer drones only interested in looking up product info on the net.

The really interesting thing about DC will be in watching how quickly they manage to burn through their 200 megabucks and show up on fuckedcompany.com.

Re:CueCatAteMyBalls

[Groundskeepr]

I guess now we know what their real plans are for this thing. I think I'll be keeping mine in a locked drawer when not in use.

Encrypt the database with reversed cue:cat?

[rvaniwaa]

What about reversing the cue:cat "encryption" and store the UPCs in the database using the encrypted values. Then the users can query the database using the actual autput of the cue:cat. Is this a nice way around their complaints?

Re:Encrypt the database with reversed cue:cat?

[alkali]

I understand that the encrypted :CueCat output includes device identification information unique to each particular CC, so two seemingly identical CCs will produce different output. I think you can cut out that portion of the encrypted string, but then you're diddling with the output and you're back to square one.

CueCat vs. Small Business/Retailer Use

[lwagner]

Information on UPC Symbols is in the public, isn't it? Isn't this a universal (AFAIK at least American?) standard?

My thought is that CueCat is probably VC-based, and they're watching their business plan being eaten... but they have VC-money to sue with.

A database of UPC Symbols would be of great use to smaller business and retailers who want to use them "scanning in" either a.) purchases of commonly purchased items, without having to actually scan the box or b.) inventory tracking.

Inventory tracking is difficult to do when there are slight differences between the two products. A simple Maxtor HDD listing with features like UDMA, etc. can even be complex, for instance, if one has a 5400RPM rotation instead of a 7200 rotation. If you've ever worked with a distributor and not had the SKU, you know that the most complex part is trying to determine what things are by a jumble of extremely long sentences and unclearly abbreviated phrases. Sometimes the differentiation doesn't fit on the screen (e.g., the Maxtor drives would look the same, except for the price).

It would be nice to scan in what inventory you want to reorder from a laser-printed sheet and have it automatically poll Ingram-Micro (or whomever) to see if it is available.

As far as difficulty scanning boxes, if you've ever tried to move a set of stacked boxes around to find the UPC code (often on the bottom), you probably know what I'm talking about. It's not fun.

With companies being so quick to sue, they seem to forget that, even with something like the CueCat, there is always a way to make some sort of money simply by (*gasp*) taking care of your customers. Not *everyone* is interested in hacking it, and most people are probably looking for a solution-based (e.g., service) approach. When you dump your customers (e.g., the lawsuit money has to come from somewhere, and customer service is often the first to suffer) to go after hackers and play lawsuit-cowboy, you have alienated both parties... parties that both had the potential to support your company in some fashion.

In the hacking world, hackers give good publicity. Sure, they love to tear your stuff apart, but they gave rise to stuff like the iOpener and the CueCat which would have never been heard of otherwise. Hackers represent the ultimate consumer - they have a no-BS approach, they're intelligent, they're skeptical, and they love a quality product they can tool around with. Most small business owners would be able to die happy if they could have even received one-fifth the publicity that either of these companies got. Go figure.

Lucas

--
Spindletop Blackbird, the GNU/Linux Cube.

Re:CueCat vs. Small Business/Retailer Use

[Hieronymous Coward]

As another user pointed out, DC is suing against the ability of the web site to decode the encrypted CueCat output. In short, it is the same complaint they've been making all along. It has nothing to do with the existance of a UPC database. Unfortuatly nothing in the Slashdot story suggested this.

Well, it's not cuecatsucks.org, but.....

[Jason Levine]

...if it has an infomercial, it'd qualify for a site I have. My site (UrateIt.com) lets people rate items advertised on Infomercials. I don't get much traffic, so I can't guarantee that the world would see your review, but it couldn't hurt. It might just keep some unsuspecting consumer from picking up a CueCat of their own. (It done just that with EpilStop, one of the products reviewed on my site.)

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[account_deleted]

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Re:Not about the Database itself, but using :CC sc

[Whizard]

It's nice of you to conveniently ignore the rest of my sentence, but that's OK. I understand that one of the key rules of posting to Slashdot is conveniently ignoring that which might disprove your point.

However, you might be interested to note this update that he's added to the upcdatabase.com page:

The reason I can't distribute the database is that over half of the data is 'borrowed', more or less -- with permission, mind you -- and I do not have permission to redistribute the lot.

HOWEVER, I have recently made plans to remove that data from the database, so that the database can be redistributed. That would take the total number of entries down from almost a half million entries, to something like 200,000 entries. If you have any opinions on this plan, please let me know -- webmaster@upcdatabase.com.

(And yes, I know I'm not identifying him or the software he's written, because he doesn't wish to tie his real name to the UPC database, for reasons that are his and his alone.)

Re:speaking of this, anyone...

[Fishstick]

God, that's even worse than the one I saw. Some kind of 'heaven can wait' kind of theme. Some jr. angel trying to get his wings was the gist of what I caught. lame lame lame lame

Guess they did intensive demographic research and are going got the brainless wal-mart trailer-home set, eh?

speaking of lame...

[wheel]

I wish people (this poster and our estemed /. editors included) would stop with the juvenile *cough* *cough* and just be explicit. (e.g.: *suppressed laughter* or *laugh!* or *ha!*). Unless of course, you are trying to imply difficulty typing due to chest congestion.

My favorite Cue Cat link

[JCMay]

Can be found here . I wonder when these guys will get into trouble with DC?

Jeff

CueCatLitter.Org (we need it)

[pilot81]

Someone ought to create a "CueCatLitter.org" web site. Let's see .. say, populate it with photos of interesting and innovative uses for their CueCats.

For one, I've replaced my tennis ball car-parking-adapter in my garage with it. Not only do I still have a great way to park my car perfectly when I get home from work, but I'm also gently reminded of the dangers not respecting other people's privacy on the net at the same time, too. I do wish they'd added a bit more length to the tail, though.

How about a CueCat fish feeder? Hmmm. I wonder what happens when the striped fishies swim under the submersed active unit?

How about some on-line instructions for building a car lighter adapter to make the purrr-fect auto map light? Parts from Radio Shack, naturally.

The possibilities seem almost endless.

New EULA Terms

[sulli]

What, you didn't see the new EULA update? By using the :Cue:Cat, you agree to refrain from the following:
- Burning the :Cue:Cat;
- Smashing the :Cue:Cat to bits;
- Shoving the :Cue:Cat up your ass.

sulli

Another use for Cue:Cat, colon cancer detection

[Anonymous Coward]

Forgive the anonymous posting, but I've had enough dealings with lawyers for teh while, you understand. Though, since I received the CueCat in hte mail due to my WiReD subscription, and unsolicited, apparently I can do anything I want with it, including sticking it up my ass. Which brings me to my point.

I'm writing the software for another use of Cue:Cat, colon cancer detection. Most tumors are colored differently than healthy flesh. Healthy flesh is red, which means it reflects red light. Tumors are usually not red, they reflect less red light. The Cue:Cat uses red light to detect barcodes, thus, it should also be able to detect differences in flesh, by detecting the differing amounts of red light reflected by healthy flesh and tumorus flesh.

So, I need a algorithm to detect changes in reflect light intensity, and a search algorithm. I'm thinking of using my Lego Mindstorms to insert the Cue:Cat in an ass, and then rotate it and push it in and pull it out (Venture Capitalists take note, perhaps we can go after the Sybian monopoly, nonstop female orgasms should be the right of every female who can't experience me, not just those with $2,000.

So, if anyone wants to help me with this, please respond here. The sensations of a cat shaped barcode reader plunging in and out of your ass are amazing, and we might detect cancer.

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[account_deleted]

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Who ARE these people?

[jaybar]

I am getting the impression that DC is staffed entirely by lawyers and marketers, two of which have their Master's degree in EL/EE or CompSci and designed the thing. Are there any disgruntled former DC workers out there who can give us the scoop on how they could possibly be so out of touch?

missing story?

[djweis]

has anyone noticed that this story doesn't appear on the front page any more? it was there, i clicked it, opened a new browser to slashdot while the c&d was loading, and it was gone.

Re:missing story?

[AFCArchvile]

I think that CmdrTaco yielded to the numerous complaints that there were too many CueCat stories. I'm surprised, cause I submitted a story about The Register's take on the CueCat. It was rejected, and they accepted this vaguely terse piece of FUDcrud? That's pathetic.

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[account_deleted]

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Re:Something is going on

[xtermz]

i think somebody is just tired of all the crap this cuecat thing is generating. its a dead issue. move on. theres nothing to see here children

"sex on tv is bad, you might fall off..."

Re:enough cuecat

[Hooptie]

And the Dallas Morning News has announced that starting this Sunday, barcodes will be appearing in the paper to use with your CueCat.

Sheesh

Hooptie

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[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Have you filed your complaint with the USPS?

[Moray_Reef]

Read about how DC has commited mail fraud (and how to file your complaint with the US postal service) here.

And learn how to 'de-claw' (so it doesn't send out a serial number) your ::cue::crap spammer-- er uh scanner here.

Re:Something is going on

[Groundskeepr]

People will generally believe the first lie they hear on any given subject. I think the "jackass moron" knows full well who said it, and is trying to re-write history by spreading the misattributed quote.

Re:Not about the Database itself, but using :CC sc

[mcoletti]

This would be a convenient excuse for a person who did not believe in open-source. Therefore, it is worthless.

I also am friends with the webmaster in question. I know that he has personally written several open-source applications. They're even on freshmeat. So, he does believe in open-source; and therefore your comment is worthless.

Idiot.

Re:RS wouldn't give me one

[kgasso]

.. was in local RatShack getting some transistors, switches, and blinky LEDs when I mentioned, "have any of those cat scanner thingys?". The nice clerk who was hanging on my shoulder the whole time hoping for a big sale to get commission money (on a side note, my total costs came to $1.86) forgot to ask for my name/phone #/addy, which they do to keep you in their database whenever you buy something. Seems they have a nice habit of forgetting that at the local stores. So out I go with kitty #6. Daisy-chained, these things make great indoor nightlights. :)

Maybe I should file a patent for cat-shaped light sources that connect to PS/2 computer interfaces. What every True Geek (TM) needs.
--

Cat-skinning Party

[DarkLordOfTheSmith]

more like grinding party. How about everybody going and getting as many of these things as you can, then we rent one of those tree branch chipper things and grind em all into plastic? sounds like fun to me. Would they try to sue us for anything? (destruction of intellectual property perhaps?) :)

Yea, lawyers get more money.

[Stoutlimb]

Bork!

Prior art?

[petej]

Way back in the late 70s, Byte Magazine (and maybe Dr. Dobb's) started publishing code in machine readable form on paper strips. I can't remember much more than that. Any chance some clever soul out there can dig up more and possibly use it as prior art to help prevent DC's patent from issuin?

Barcode Guerilla Tactics

[resistant]

The lawyers at Digital Convergence are being just ridiculous.

How about open-source software for generating (stickum-backed) barcodes for little bottles of prescription medicine, so older folks with poor vision or folks with poor reading skills can run CueCats over them to have a synthesized voice speak to them the important details that are way too small or hard to read in those bitty pamplets or on the bottles themselves?

Trying to stomp on that would make the snarling poodles at Digital Convergence look just plain mean. Not that they need any help with looking like mean bullies ....

Re:enough cuecat

[LaZZaR]

Idiot

Re:Honestly . . .but surprised????

[sallen]

>>> "My impression of CueCat (and this is from limited data, admittedly) is that they have no idea how the internet, software, and computer world work in general...Lawsuits do not make you popular, screwing around with data does not make you popular, and posturing does not make you popular.">>> ...but why be surprised. If you look at their bios, half have law degrees (generally not practicing), a number from the same prior company ('movie biz'), and with every 'division' having a PRESIDENT , probably GIANT movie biz type egos. They probably made a lot of easy $$$ in the prior business and figured they'd make the mega-$$$ in the internet business. So are you surprised there are lawsuits and they seem inept on the ways of the internet? I'm not. They just want their easy money (and probably IPO as soon as possible). They just got in a little late after the big internet stock bust. This, IMHO, seems nothing more than the typical 'does not work/play well with others' type. Actually, if they love lawsuits, I think the VCR Plus type folks should be talking to them. It's the same concept, number/encoded data, used to simplify/translate to other useful information. They seemed to have simply COPIED the 'idea' and changed the concept to 'scanners with bar codes' and the internet. The concept seems the same, just an implementation difference. Sheesh, and they think they're brilliant and have invented this new 'operating system' as I believe they called the dumb little cat. I don't expect this cat to be a mouse eater at all.

Won't work- Here's what they MIGHT be using...

[Svartalf]

The following is a copy of an e-mail I sent to FBM and the author of FooCat. It is in response to something that was, up until yesterday, on his site, quoting an interview the DC CEO had with an east-coast newspaper. In the interview, the CEO mentions that it's a patent that they acquired that was issued by the USPTO in 1991, that purportedly covers scanning a barcode and generating a network event. If the interview is accurate and doesn't have typos or incorrect info, the following information would be of import (Note: This is supposition. It means nothing until DC fesses up to what IP FooCat and others are violating their rights on- this looks close enough for them to bluff their way through this with..):

A quick search of the Delphion IPN (Used to be IBM's patent site, but they merged their operations with Delphion...) for "(bar code) and (network)" produced only 3 hits for patents in 1991:

#4,982,346 - Mall promotion network apparatus and method
#5,029,183 - Packet data communication network
#5,029,034 - Video casette with optical output of information

Closest patent is 4,982,346.

htt p://www.pat ents.ibm.com/details?&pn=US04982346__&show_legal=1 #LEGAL

Abstract:

A computer system automates advertising and promotional campaigns. The computer system includes a magnetic stripe card reader, bar code reader, monitor, printer, keyboard, and touchscreen input device. Software executing on the computer manages the operations of these devices. The system displays advertisements and product or store locator maps, dispenses coupons, accepts product orders, and manages customer surveys. Customers are attracted to the system by promotional sweepstakes, thereby enhancing the effectiveness of the advertising and surveys. A frequent shopper campaign also attracts customers to the system.

This does NOT cover scanning a barcode and generating a network event. The patent copy is one of the sillier things I've had the misfortune of seeing- 76(!) pages, mostly of flow charts describing the high-level details of the application. It might be said that this is an applicable patent because of what they're claiming, but what they're claiming is not novel, nor is what they're claiming a specific to the WWW or to the Internet in general.

According to Delphion, the current owner of the patent is Inter-Act Systems, Inc. of Norwalk, Conn. which was a change of hands on June 6, 1997. Inter-Act is still in business, doing the same line of business, mall kiosks. Now,
either they've purchased the rights to this patent, they're a subsidiary of Inter-Act (Not likely), they don't own the rights to this patent and they're bluffing because they found it just like I did and they're using it as a smokescreen, or we're barking up the wrong tree. Which is it? Your guess is as good as mine, but they're not
listed as an assignee to the best of what I can find out.

The next closest is #5,029,183. This describes a patent owned by Symbol that is used for remote, hand-held, bar code scanning units to collect data for a central computer (Like those nifty hand-held units that Wal-Mart, K-Mart, etc. use for inventory, etc.). In this case, they'd _have_ to have just bought the patent rights on this one. Symbol's NOT going to relinquish such an important
patent (even if it is overbroad and non-unique...).

Either we've got the date wrong or he's mis-applying the first patent mentioned.

If this is the patent, and by some perverse twist of fate, Delphion's site info isn't in lockstep with who is the current assignee of the patent, you're going to find that anything of the sort is in violation of the patent. Of course, I may have missed the patent (There's something buried, not in the abstracts...)- having said this, I'd like to point out that without it being in the abstracts, it's not likely to be a valid use of the patent grant, because they've got to specifically mention what they're patenting there. Furthermore, most of the usages that we see with it that DC's up in arms about isn't really covered by this patent- the usages don't link up with any marketing data except the case of the engines flipping you to Amazon, and that's tenuous too.

Re:Wacky patent. So why not circumvent HTTP for no

[CodeMonky]

NeoMedia, ah yes. They approached us when they were first starting up to design some software for them. The concept was essentially the exact same as DC. They said they had Nike signed to a contract to start adding there special barcodes to sneakers so that when scanned they would take you to a web page with a rather lame flash animation or game on it.
From dealing with the people there it is surprising we haven't seen a lawsuit yet. Especially with the number of NDA's they wanted us to sign. Heard they ran into money problems so maybe they are out of business. I can't seem to remember their web addr. :(

Re:thats fine

[xtermz]

hah, i dont like what slashdot already is. people are more concerned with the social implications of their post than the actual relevance of the story. Wow, lets spend alot of time correcting somebody and talking down to them cause oh my, they made a fuxin spelling mistake. In fact, I dont like what society has become either. We dont care about the real news. Everything is pre-filtered, pre-chewed garbage that the big corporations and big government feels like feeding us. everybody wants all their information from one source... i can go on and on but screw it

"sex on tv is bad, you might fall off..."