Posted by
ryuzaki0
on from the it-was-inevitable dept.
Motor writes: "Microsoft is selling its shares in Corel." Interesting -- it was inevitable that this would happen, I suppose.
166 comments
Re:HELLO GENTLEMAN
by
Anonymous Coward
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It definitely originated as the intro in the old arcade (or megadrive or PC engine) game Zero Wing. It became famous in a thread on somethingawful.com
Is Mr. Bill Wearing Out His Welcome With Bush?
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Anonymous Coward
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Another point has been overlooked. This DOJ investigation is recent. It must have started during the Bush Administration! Mr. Bill has really worn out his welcome rapidly, hasn't he!
It is interesting to speculate that Dubya has seen Mr. Bill for the loose cannon that he really is. Any competent politician should be able to see a potential embarrassment coming from a long way off!
I can't help wondering whether some high functionary has approached Mr. Bill, off the record, and told him, "Knock it off, you big, fat, fool, before you get yourself in real trouble!".
MS running scared.. get a clue BEFORE you post :P
by
Anonymous Coward
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It really is amusing to see all of the "MS is running scared" crap being posted. How a company with well over 90% of the desktop market sewn up could ever be considered to be "running scared" is well beyond my train of thought.
I am a 100% Linux user (well almost - only for the odd game do I reboot:)) but I can see quite clearly that although our beloved Linux is making inroads, it will be a long time before "MICROSOFT IS RUNNING SCARED!".
What can be said is that Microsoft is a cautious player of the market and will endeavour to snuff any flame out before it has the capacity to compete with their own fscked version of the particular product in question - this is how one ties up 90% of a market for those that didn't know.
The other thing thats annoying is to see all of the "Microsoft bought Corel, destroyed the threat and dumped it" bullshit. Does anyone have any kind of evidence of this? Or are we just playing the typical pile shit on MS game for the sheer hell of it that we usually see on Slashdot?
Perhaps they just wanted to opt out of a company that is obviously not doing too well before they lost anymore money on the deal.
Even a company as gargantuan as MS has to be smart with its money you know:)
Microsoft planned to screw Corel all along.
by
Anonymous Coward
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I am sure that Microsoft planned to do this all along, they didn't just decide to dump Corel this when they were investigated for yet another antitrust violation. The deliberately did this to depress the stock price of a competitor, while all along they were publicly saying they were partners.
Let me give you a similar example.
Microsoft made a $150m investment in nonvoting shares of Apple, which was made in exchange for Apple making IE the "browser of choice." Microsoft secretly bought about $80million of AAPL options, selling short. So that way, no matter if Apple stock went up or down, MS was covered.
At the end of the 3 year agreement, MS exercised its option to convert the $150m into regular AAPL preferred stock shares. Then MS secretly started dumping the stocks at low prices, in an attempt to depress the price of AAPL during a time of 4Q vulnerability. AAPL prices remained depressed until Jan 1 2001 when their stock and options were exhausted. Then, miraculously, the stock prices started rising again. The Red Herring newsletter described the events in detail, and estimated that MS blew $90m just to depress the stock price.
So, you can see why I think MS did this deliberately. They deliberately intended to gut Corel, then sell it as a distressed property.
So remember, keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. And be careful to keep a close eye on who is just pretending to be your friend.
Re:They killed it with competition
by
jedidiah
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Except it hasn't been established that MS Office is actually a better product. Only Lemmings that wish to save face regarding their past purchases assume so.
-- A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
You don't know me. I'm just curious about something (it's really silly). Please e-mail me. I promise that I won't harrass you. Use your throwaway Hotmail/Yahoo/etc. address if you have one and are paranoid.:-)
Re:They killed it with competition
by
IntlHarvester
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It was for the price.
(Back in 92-93 you could get Office for Windows for less than the price of the DOS WordPerfect wordprocessor by itself. Once you added Lotus 1-2-3 and Harvard Graphics, the cost was well over 3 times what Microsoft was charging for an more accessible product.) --
Re:This is clear evidence of MSLinux
by
um...+Lucas
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Forget MSLinux already. Never gonna happen. IF it were, why would they be spending all their time and resources on Windows XP, when all they really would need to do is make a new skin for KDE or GNOME?
No, they dumped the shares in Corel because they didn't want to have to answer any more questions to the Justice Department about Corel's activities since they invested in them (dumping Linux, etc). This way, if Corel goes bottom up a year from now they can step back and say "Hey, we bought into them, things weren't working out, we sold out, and look what happened, we were right", rather than having to explain "yes, we bought this company and purposefully drove it into the ground".
Re:Smart business move...
by
meridian
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corel office isnt any real ms office competitor. its simply an alternative. tghe only true competitor to ms's stranglehold is opensource aka openoffice alo0ng with gnomes bonobo.
A spokesperson for Microsoft quantified the corporations position today: "It turns out that Corel was worth less than half of what we paid for it. We should have known, the way they backed down on their licensing on Corel Linux last year. No company that will allow its IP to get out of iron-handed control can be good for the software industry or America in general. We thought they had products worth assimilating, but well, at least we threw a wrench into that whole WordPerfect for Linux thing, and if this deflects any inquiries into our monopoly, so much the better. We aren't giving up WaterWorks, though."
--
--
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
> This may be a sign that MS care less about Linux than they used to - perhaps they are even abandoning a possible dot net port to Linux given the fact that Linus seems to be tanking at the moment
Yeah, you're right. After Microsoft's execs announced that Linux was "crummy" and "anti-American", nobody seems to use it anymore.
Bill can sleep easier at night now, knowing that his people closed down a scam that suckered people into not having to pay for their software.
--
-- Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Re:This is clear evidence of MSLinux
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mjpaci
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Is it me or does Microsoft seem a lot like either:
1) The Alien
2) The alien from Species
MSLinux? I doubt it. They have their own OS with BILLIONS of dollars invested. It just don't work that way.
Unless, of course, they bring it out just to test the GPL in the courts.
Its not like Microsoft's buy in to Corel was a hostile takeover. Blame Microsoft all you want but Corel went into this partnership knowingly...
Perhaps if they had stuck to their guns, left MS out in the cold and stayed in the Linux business, nothing would be different today ???
Oxryly
Re:Hey, Bill! is already patented.
by
CBravo
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Sorry, but you can't do this. I already patented this program. You will receive the appropriate letters from my lawyers soon...
-- nosig today
Re:We should be counting our meager blessings.
by
Malcontent
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How does paying more for something reduce the TCO?
Right now most businesses can decide for themselves weather to upgrade or not and when to upgrade. Being forced to upgrade weather you like it or not and whenever MS tells you to regardless of your cash flow does not reduce the TCO.
Arguably the current state of the art word processor gpl-ed? That would hit hard.:=)
Re:Microsoft has a Linux strategy. Be very afraid.
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meadowsp
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I modded you down because you're talking rubbish. You obviously don't understand how free-software works.
So what if there's a MSLinux with proprietry hooks so that.Net only works on that platform. How the hell is that different to what we've got now with Windows?
MSLinux CAN'T subvert Linux, BSD, etc. BECAUSE THEY'RE FREE. If you don't like what MS (theoretically) do in the future, roll your own distribution and set up in competition.
Re:You only reported half the news.
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ErikZ
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Don't feel bad, it took me a few moment to see the difference. And English is my first language.
-- Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
Re:Microsoft has a Linux strategy. Be very afraid.
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Caball
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Winning the war? Your lame open source socialist ass hasnt even won a battle yet.
Not to be a party pooper but I believe that Corel was already in hot water before they received an infusion of cash from Microsoft. Their Corel Linux dsitribution was not receiving rave reviews and CorelOffice for Linux was less than stellar. I'm pretty sure that Corel was screwed before Microsoft got involoved.
Re:They killed it with competition
by
dimator
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Some people brought up that the employees end up paying taxes when they sell the stock they acquired by exercising the options.
Which would you propose:
1) The company pays tax and the employees get huge gains on stock options tax free.
2) The employee pays the tax on the huge gain and the company does not (the present situation)
3) Both the employee and the company pay tax on the options. (good for the government, bad for the company, no difference for the employee)
4) Stock options are outlawed because no one should be able to profit from their own hard work.
When the employees own a lot of company stock, the distinction between the employees and the company gets blurred a bit. But "employee owners" can be fired. Other stock holders can't.
-- "We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." -- Albert Einstein
23 Jan - Press conference shows new logo and not much else
25 Jan 01 - Cowpland Resigns from BOD
2 Feb - Q4 earnings
20 Feb - Microsoft asks for preferred shares to be converted to common shares that can be sold. They are also voting shares so if they do not sell them they have a greater say in Corel's business.
So it appears that Burney was going to announce the selling of the Linux division on 23 Jan but was stopped by the DoJ investigation. Cowpland sees the writing on the wall and bails out thus reducing his legal liability. Other possibilities were that he was disgusted with the Microsoft deal and the way the company was going or it was part of the deal that to get the financing Cowpland had to go within 6 months.
At least this explains the non announcement on 23 Feb but did Microsoft really spend $135 million just to get rid of Cowpland?
As an aside, I am hoping that Burney appoints a relative of Cdn prime Minister Jean Cretien or a high level Liberal crony as the new replacement director so that Corel can get some Canadian Govt contracts.
It is ironic that while the US Govt has ruled that Microsoft is a monopoly and has used illegal
practices to dominate the office suite market, the Canadian Govt only chose to investigate the anti competitive practice of Microsoft investing in Corel.
Why did they not investigate in 1996 when Corel bought WordPerfect and the Canadian Govt depts started to choose Microsoft over Corel even though WP has been the standard in Canada for 15 years previous? I think it is because Bill Davis, Barbara McDougall and some of the other Directors were all high ranking Conservative party supporters. Even Derek Burney's dad was a former PC party fund-raiser and advisor to Brian Mulroney. Since the Liberals are in power for at least the next 4 years, Corel should bite the bullet and cut their Conservative ties. A good start would be with a new Liberal Director.
Some of the comments I have heard is that it looks like an Alien or a toliet. Considering the stock price, the latter is probally more appropriate.
If you look at the three D version here it looks like a phallus. Maybe that is way Burney has his head in in hands vowing never to higher the Dogbert consulting company again?
Maybe this is a new MS strategy. Buy a big hunk of your competitor which brings their stability into question. Wait a few weeks while everyone realizes you can buy and sell anyone you want to. Dump the stock and watch the company shrivel and die.
From what I've heard, some big companies (Microsoft and Cisco in particular) count the stock options they give their employees against their revenue, and so end up paying little in taxes anyway.
Corel was screwed before getting into Linux, too. They've been searching forever for some kind of 'silver bullet' that'll change things for them and get them back to gaining more customers rather than just trying to maintain their declining customer base. Corel's problem has never been anything but the quality (or lack thereof) of their products. Corel Wordperfect 6 for Windows, 7 and 8 were horrific programs that rarely worked, and often messed up systems just by installing them. The new Corel CEO seems to be more grounded than Micheal Cowpland was, since he picked up on any technology and wasted far too much money on trying to develop for that, only to drop it shortly after (remember WordPerfect for Java?). Honestly, Corel is doing the right thing -- continuing their core products (for any platform they can support), and dropping the ones that can't win.
-- I used up all my sick days, so I'm calling in dead.
Microsoft's way of killing Linux
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crivens
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Slashdot has always wondered if Microsoft would and could try to kill Linux. Could this be it?!
Microsoft Bails out Corel?
by
(void*)
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Isn't this old news?
Oh wait...
How is this a loss for Corel ?
by
Deep_Blue
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I may be getting it wrong here,but if Corel buys back the stock from Microsoft that's still 60 Milions in their pockets without doing anything.
That's pure profit.So why does everybody see this as a bad news?I'd say it's time for party at Corel
HQ.Even if they don't buy it back that still leaves them with enough cash in hand to operate for another year or so.
--
The best way to escape from a problem is to solve it.
Alan Saporta
hehe your post seems self contradicting. "What killed Corel was the introduction of Microsoft Office" yet Microsoft did not kill Corel??? Hehe silly goose.. think about it
Hmmm... Microsoft announces it doesn't like open source and then finds out they have stocks in an openly open source supportive company, so they dump it all. Stupid Microsoft.
if IBM decides to do what so many people have been suggesting
you mean buy Wordperfect and Open Source it Like Sun Did? Boy, I just wish!! WordPerfect is the ONLY Wordprocessor, which is as good as M$Word!(maybe even Better!) and has really good import/export filters. Well, a guy can dr3am can't he?
-- -Oh Granny your eyes are BIG and RED!
-it's from rebooting WinNT servers all night, said the wolf
Re:Microsoft has a Linux strategy. Be very afraid.
by
rpittman
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> XP stands for Expert
XP has most commonly stood for Experimental, which definitely applies to MickeySlop's software products.
This reminds me of some bad 80s movie where the devil is tring to get into the "holy mans camp". After the "holy man" where starving, the devil promissied them unlimited food if they would join him. A few did, and what a suprise... he killed them after there first meal. I wish I could remeber the name of it....
Corel, what the hell did you expect ?? You come into the Linux community expecting open arms, it took a while until you started to get some respect, then you turn your self over to the enemy. Let me take a wild guess, the next version of Corel Linux is already in the works ?
/me smacks Corel with a light weight 50lb. Unix manual
Since that they owned such a big chunk of Corel, they were probably able got a good look at all the source code to the Linux OS! No wonder they are selling it off. They got what they wanted! Are they ever sneaky!!!
uhh, so they paid 60 million to look at free source code?
--
Re:Microsoft has a Linux strategy. Be very afraid.
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WildBeast
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Really Mac OS sopied BSD. Are you fucking kidding?
Isn't OS X based on FreeBSD?
They've even stolen Apple's new naming convention for Windows. Yeah, Mac OS has an X, so lets go one better and have an XP after our name. Microsoft is indefensible
XP stands for Expert, I really don't see any relation here.
Re:Microsoft has a Linux strategy. Be very afraid.
by
WildBeast
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Ever since Bill 'wanker' Gates invented the concept of the 'ownership' of software with his letter to users of his lame-assed 'basic' language, Microsoft has sought to gain profit from software, which as a natural resouce should be free.
I've been right before, and I am right now. I don't trust those Redmond Retards any further than I can throw them.
I don't know who's the retard. Let me think.
MS works their ass off, market their products like crazy and they want to make big money out of it. On the other side you work your ass off, you're a code addict and you just love giving away the Programs you worked so hard to create. Who's the retard someone who wants to make money doing what they love or someone who wants no money for doing what he loves? If you feel like being the next Mother Theresa, it's your choice but don't come complaining when you're out of money. Yes kiddie it takes money to buy food, water, house, etc.
Re:shite this will kille Corel
by
WildBeast
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Alias|Wavefront
Who?
Softimage
Belongs to MS
Discreet
Heuh?
FreeBSD
Instead of giving 50% of their profits to the government, the only smart workaround was to give the OS for free:)
Re:What about .NET for linux?
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WildBeast
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They really don't feel like having another antitrust suit just because they Bought shares in Corel. They had no choice but to sell.
shite this will kille Corel
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WildBeast
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Damn It was the biggest software company we Canadians had. I guess no one around feels like opening up a company in Canada and giving more than half of their profits to the government?:)
Re:shite this will kille Corel
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WildBeast
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NVidia will burry it
Re:shite this will kille Corel
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gol64738
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dont forget bryan adams either...
Re:shite this will kille Corel
by
Pope
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Alias|Wavefront Softimage Discreet FreeBSD
Yep, no software in Canada.
Pope
Freedom is Slavery! Ignorance is Strength! Monopolies offer Choice!
-- It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
Re:shite this will kille Corel
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nomadic
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Damn It was the biggest software company we Canadians had. I guess no one around feels like opening up a company in Canada and giving more than half of
their profits to the government?:)
Console yourself with the fact that you still have ATI... --
Re:shite this will kille Corel
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BluedemonX
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Careful, all the Chretien apologists will come out of the woodwork and berate you about how good Canada really is.
Canada SUCKS especially for IT which is why 66% of many graduating classes in Computer Science immediately head South.
--
---
Jump!! Fire!! Bullet time!! - Lego version of the Matrix
Re:shite this will kille Corel
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BluedemonX
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Come here and say that, you manky-toothed boiled food eating big-eared chinless inbred bastard.
--
---
Jump!! Fire!! Bullet time!! - Lego version of the Matrix
Re:Microsoft has a Linux strategy. Be very afraid.
by
Bungie
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Forget Microsoft Linux, XENIX is the solution that Microsoft is going to try to bring back! I still find it amazing that most Microsoft products (QuickC for example) up to the mid-nineties still supported their dead operating system.
-- The clash of honour calls, to stand when others fall.
Re:Selling at a loss...
by
killthiskid
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Did you read the article I linked to?
Do you know about microsoft's practice of paying employees with stock and then taking a tax break on it? Do you know how dangerous this is, esp. considering the number of retirement plans that relie up Microsoft stock?
It's irresponsible, and it's fucking US two ways... by microsoft not fair share of taxes, and by cause a potential instability in an already fragile tech market.
2. What else would make them bail? Is it linux related? It's hard to tell... I think this is a jump of gun, in that the event has happen, but no party has given a good reason. I know why I sell stock, but I'm sure those same influences don't apply to microsoft, considering the amount of moneys they have.
I'm just really curious to wait and see what Microsoft has to say, if anything, about this sell.
"Corporate welfare" - what a bullshit term.
Remember, this is Microsoft money that they keep instead of forking over to support insane federal programs.
They are not stealing from you.
Well, for me ANY tax evasion is fair and reasonable. US federal government has grown so big it is scary when one reads constitution and wonders how the hell they managed to justify this growth and still claim to be following our constitution.
If they can do that they can do anything...
BTW. Microsoft is just responding any way they can to this Byzantine tax system... It is not their fault, they are not the ones who set the rules here.
IANAE (I am not an Economist), but if you have higher initial cost and lower expenses afterwards, you win in the long run over a constant higher expense. Note that "the long run" is obviously more than a couple of years, so in IT, thinking that way is probably very dangerous, but consider the following real-world example:
If I recall correctly my dad bought Office 97 when it came out for 350EUR (not very sure), but we are happy with it and we already use it for 4 years. So technically a subscription to Office would need to be less than 7.3EUR/month to be competitve. Service packs were freely downloadable for Office 97. Consider then that all four PC's in our house have he same Office on it (which is illegal, considering EULA), it lowers TCO even more. Every year that I use this Office 97 longer will be pure gain for me. If I had a subscription, even if it only were 5 EUR/month..over 4 years, for 4 computers it would be 5EUR*12(month)*4(years)*4(computers) = 960 EUR total cost. Ouch! And that only to do a bit accounting, an homework and presentations for school? Not to forget that I didn't have to update any machine in order to keep running Office 97, something which would not be guaranteed to be the case with subscription based software.
You also claim also that companies can choose whether they upgrade or not... Sure, theoretically that is true, but consider this: your business is not alone. Your company is likely to communicate with other businesses: the day your CEO recieves an Office 2000 document and he cannot open it because your company has adopted Office 97 as a standard, what is he going to do? He is not going to mail back to the other CEO to remail it in a compatible format, but he is going to call you and tell you that the IT material is outdated and it needs to get upgraded.
(Oh, yeah, and "weather" is the thing outside like rain and snow and sunshine...what you mean is "whether")
-- Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
I still don't get your argument. You state that renting office would cost you more in the long run then buying yet you still claim it would lower TCO. Did I read that wrong?
As for my upgrade when and if you need it point consider this.
In my office everybody uses office 97. If someone sends us a office 2000 document there is ONE pc with office 2000 on it. That person simply saves it as HTML and forwards it to the person who needs it. It rarely happens mind you because most people are reasonable and will send you the format you need. You don't need to upgrade the entire office just a few desktops to get compatibility. It's also important to be able to manage your upgrade schedule. If you have seasonal downturns or are suffering from a temporary downturn then you should have the choice to wait till better times to upgrade. MS will soon take that choice away from you. You WILL upgrade WHEN they want to not when you can best afford it.
Where in my argument was I not clear? I agree that the first paragraph may be misleading because of the fact that I say that time in the IT world goes very fast. TCO by renting might get very low (low TCO = it doesn't cost very much) in case where software has a high version cycle and you need the support of every new feature.
Most software isn't that way. My example was for "Joe-Loser-Family-Computer-Owner" (Yes, that's me!) using Office 97, the category in which most end user software falls. I say the TCO is very low in the "Buy-Once-Use-Often", scenario depicted and I calculate the TCO (over 4 years) on a basis of 4 computers running a rented Office for 4 years. 350EUR (bought) < 940EUR (rented)....In what way is my reasoning illogical? Buying and keeping a long time results in a low TCO. That's all.
On a side note, I see you do not work for a huge company where everything goes over comany policy. Your company is probably one of the few that doesn't mind getting resumes in.RTF? Microsoft has already taken us the freedom of choice in document formats. Heck, I still would be using Wordperfect 5.1 for DOS, if I didn't get.DOC,.XLS and.PPT in a contiunous flood. Right now everything goes well, since most companies stick with 97. How long will it take that big companies convert to 2000 and everyone will *have* to follow for the sake of compatibilty. You know, you just don't say to some partner of some huge consulting group: "Oh, please send it in Word 97, because we don't support Word 2000". Believe me he will look at you with a dull unbelieving expression. I agree that you office setup is very reasonable, but it will probably only be usable in small offices...and as long as there are no queues forming in front of those few workstations. Besides, I fear for intercompatibility between Office 2000 and Office 97....I have had some nightmares with Office 97 vs. Office 95
-- Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
Come on guys! "Steve Jobs: All your GeForce3 are belong to us." from the earlier article was just as funny as this one! And it got modded down to 2,Redundant.
It's still funny! Sorry to those of you who are sick of this already.
Re:Microsoft has a Linux strategy. Be very afraid.
by
eclectro
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'Enhancements' to MS means 'It will not work unless you are on a MS approved platform'
and then it follows that "freedom to innovate" means people have to use microsoft products if 'they want to use a computer'.
-- Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
MSLinux and the infamous EULA
by
LtFiend
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I wonder what m$ will attempt to do with GPL to enforce some sort EULA on it.
Will M$ be the first to test GPL in the court system? That could be dangerous in itself.
Re:Microsoft has a Linux strategy. Be very afraid.
by
ipous
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Forget Microsoft Linux, XENIX is the solution that Microsoft is going to try to bring back!
Sorry, but you forgot that MS sold XENIX to SCO many years ago...
wait, what happened to SCO...?
In order for Corel to survive, they will probably need to sell off their assetts. Why not open source previous versions of WP? I would love to have WP5.1, 6.1 and 7.0 available to hack into a really good word processor for linux- with an open source flavour added, of course.
-- They stuck me in an institution, said it was the only solution, to...protect me from the enemy, myself
I suspect MS was in power over Correll just long enough to enter into some 'agreements' meant to be the 'Bait' for Correll forming a 'close working relationship', now here's the 'switch' where good 'ole MS just takes a hike and says "you're on your own Correll, don't you violate those IP contracts you signed into"
just speculation on my part, MS has a way with 'working relationships' that always seems to strip others of their own "Intellectual Property", or at least make that I.P. somehow useless
Well, have just been waiting for it. Corel stocks dropping like flies, and M$ have now figured out, that they lost enough on it.
Pure and simple economy.
If I am not mistaken, Corel had already announced that it was considering getting out of the linux business BEFORE Microsoft put $135M into the company. And it's stock had already tanked before Microsoft put enough money in the company to keep it solvent for a little while longer.
I have no idea what Microsoft's intentions were with the deal, but Corel was a dead duck before Microsoft arrived.
-- "Microsoft has made computing accessible to a population who would otherwise not be able to use computers" - B. Kernigha
Bill Gates guide to making a Monopoly:
Step 1: Observe competition.
Step 2: If competition is a corporation, buy it out.
Step 3: Kill the corporation off.
Step 4: Dump the corporation.
Step 5: Repeate.
I'm sure we all saw this coming. It *was* inevitable...
Re:Microsoft Executive Says Linux Threatens Their
by
leviramsey
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I find it interesting that Microsoft owned shares of a company that sold directly competitive products (Linux vs. Windows, Wordperfect vs. Office, etc.) Doesn't that seem counterproductive to anyone else? I mean, if I'm wrong help me out. ---
evil adrian
...and to be relief of Microsoft. Corel is now humming to the right MS tune and is only developing for the Windows platform? Sounds like a win for MS.
Re:Microsoft has a Linux strategy. Be very afraid.
by
Flabdabb+Hubbard
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· Score: 1
MS works their ass off
MS copies anything it can.
market their products like crazy
Blatently lies to the consumer.
they want to make big money out of it.
And to have a Monopoly.
Who's the retard someone who wants to make money doing what they love or someone who wants no money for doing what he loves?
If you have to ask this question, you have already lost the battle. It is not for nothing that the world's major religions all have a rule that 'it is better to give than to receive'. Perhaps if you could look beyond your personal greed toward the greater good of humanity you would not come across as a money-grabbing sociopath with no concern for ethics and morals.
Yes kiddie it takes money to buy food, water, house, etc.
Espcecially if your house cost $59 million, and has garage space for 30 vehicles, and plasma screen TVs in every room. NOBODY deserves to be as rich as Bill Gates. I do not CARE what he has done or not done. Morally, he is the equivalent of Osma Bin Ladin or Gerry Adams. He will pay the price when he has to come face to face with his creator.
Re:Tax loss? Covering your risk.
by
onepoint
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· Score: 1
There are many ways to prevent that loss.
They could have "shorted against the box". No upside gain on that.
purchased put options. cost of options but all upside is there.
Called a professional hedging company to cover there entire position. This is the best way. Basicaly they take an option (money / stock ) against your cash value of your stock postion. they then give you money. At the due date, you must give them your stock or the amount of money you got from them ( it's your choice ). So if your stock went down you deliver the stock, or if the stock is up you deliver the money. If handled carefully, the money you got made a good return and you would only have had to deliver money and a small bit of your stock.
ONEPOINT
spambait e-mail
my web site artistcorner.tv hip-hop news
please help me make it better
-- if you see me, smile and say hello.
Re:Tax loss? options are...
by
onepoint
·
· Score: 1
Stock options are a right off not a Loss. Very simular, but different definitions.
Losses can be structured to be used at different times over the life of the loss, against profit ( net or gross i don't recall ) on a 1 to 1 basis. Atleast that's how I'm told to do it for my books.
right offs are used against current assests. They have an implied value from an asset. example inventory bought @ 100.00 currently worth 10.00 has an implied value of 100. but a real value of 10. your inventory right off is 90.
If I donate it, I could get an Implied right-off of 100.00. Accountants know how this trick works I don't)
ONEPOINT
spambait e-mail
my web site artistcorner.tv hip-hop news
please help me make it better
WordPerfect killed itself by taking way too long to develop a WYSIWYG interface for the PC. All MS had to do was port thier very good, Mac-leading MS Word (which Mac people, including me, loved) over to the PC.
When I joined the "real world" after college, they had PC's with WordPerfect on them, and I couldn't stand the hideousness of that product. When Windows 3.0 came out, MS Word was up and running fine, while WordPerfect was still messing around with the old style of interface. How blind can a corporation be?
What do Microsoft and a mosquito have in common?
They acquire their tagets, suck them dry and leave a bad itch when they leave.
What do Microsoft and your new gilfriend have in common? They both suck real good, and when they go away they leave you broke.
Anyone got better ones?
Re:Microsoft has a Linux strategy. Be very afraid.
by
russmay
·
· Score: 1
MS has a history of subverting something popular to their 'standards'.
Look at HTML tags (aka the browser wars) and what MS tried to do with Java.
'Enhancements' to MS means 'It will not work unless you are on a MS approved platform'
"We are not a monopoly!cried the PR department as they dump another used-up company in the bin...
I wonder how much this has to do with Windows XP?
Oh no Microsoft is selling at 1/2 price
by
robert-porter
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· Score: 1
I guess I should stay away from those Corel people too.
What about .NET for linux?
by
Ayende+Rahien
·
· Score: 1
That was the main reason that MS bought shares in Corel.
What would happen to it now?
--
-- Two witches watched two watches.
Which witch watched which watch?
Re:Microsoft has a Linux strategy. Be very afraid.
by
MwtrV
·
· Score: 1
"He will pay the price when he has to come face to face with his creator."
Lovely. I think the first message in this thread and the above quote quite possibly qualifies you as the biggest windbag on Slashdot.
If you think you're doing advocacy a favour by denouncing Microsoft's creator as an abomination and making inane claims like ".NET will be for Linux, along with Office2000, on the Microsoft Linux distro" (neverminding the GPL's protection of user from a proprietary Linux system; no one can make a Linux distribution with special core C libraries [Libc],) then think again. "Advocacy" of that nature just shows the utterly assinine "wOrld domination!!!!" attitude maintained by some in the Linux camp.
Let's be realistic about THE operating system we use, the company we dislike and religion/GOD in general. I live with far less money then the average populus makes on average... the "eternal reward" for my obedience and observance of laws, both human nature related and legal, right doesn't fucking brighten my day, nor does "the eternal punishment" for those who have wronged me.
-- mwtr / THIS SIG HAS BEEN PRAYED OVER AND MAY BE USED AS A POINT OF CONTACT (ACTS 19:12)
I think MS were forced into this by an impending DoJ investigation - sad as it robs Corel of the investment.
This may be a sign that MS care less about Linux than they used to - perhaps they are even abandoning a possible dot net port to Linux given the fact that Linus seems to be tanking at the moment - so this is doubly sad as it would have been nice to have a decent bridge between the two environments.
Or <insert conspiracy theory here> Was it because MS had "sucked them dry" - yeah right, and Bill Gates hides under my bed in the dark just waiting for me to go to sleep to jump out and suck my blood as well....
Now that Corel's 'vested interest' (gun to their head) in staying out of Linux has been removed, is there anything stopping them from going back to Linux/open source development? It would seem that all MS did was set Corel back a few months, and themselves back a large chunk of change. In other words, I'm missing something. Hey, it's Microsoft - there has to be something underhanded going on... right?
What killed Corel was an ill advised purchase of WordPerfect from Novell. Add to that the hundreds of millions of dollars Corel wasted on R&D for their network computer that never saw the light of day, the bungled Linux launch that never got off the ground, and what has got to be one ofthe most expensive support staffs on the planet to deal with the ridiculous number of bugs (they put MS to shame in the show stopping bugs that make it to release dept.) and the downfall of Corel was all but written on the wall. Corel needs to distance themselves from the poor decisions of Michael Cowpland and reconcentrate on what they got famous for, Corel Draw and the core suite of graphics applications.
Buying out the struggling competition - $135 million
Forcing them to port your apps to Linux - $150 million
Turning around and dumping their shares - priceless
Re:This is clear evidence of MSLinux
by
bass_wulf
·
· Score: 1
Yup. I've been waiting for MSLinux for years (well, about two years anyway). Not that I intend to buy the disks, but I'd be tempted to download the ISO images from their free FTP site...
Do you remember a few years back when Bill Gates was in all the industry press saying "... the internet is not important... ", and then a few months later saying "... the internet is everything... "?
MS has proven itself to be ruthlessly adaptable in the past - if Linux continues to rise and Microsoft's new products don't establish a growing market share, MSLinux could well be on the cards.
If you can't beat 'em, imitate and assimilate! Beware!
Bass_Wulf
-- Soundcheck Poem: 1 2 was a racehorse and 1 1 was 1 2. 1 2 1 1 race and 1 1 1 1 2.
Last week MarketPlace (on NPR) reported that as part of Microsoft's purchace/bail out of Corel, Corel Corp. agreed to completely disengage itself from any and all development on Linux. I guess the rumors of some months ago of an office port to Linux were misleading. More, ominously, this seems to fly in the face of the court ruling and a definitive tactics that brought about that ruling.
Yeah, but who sired who? Did CA sire Microsoft, or did Microsoft sire CA? And why can't they just hang out in the corporate coven together like all the other vampires?
-- These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Wrong. My college, for one, does. Students are "strongly encouraged" to use only Microsoft Word. This is for compatibility reasons, because all instructors must, by contract, use Microsoft Word. Also, they must use Excel, Powerpoint, Access, and Visual Studio. We've currently got an insane infestation of various Outlook viruses in our all-Windows computer labs. So don't you pull that "no-one's forcing you to use MS stuff" argument. Some of us *are* forced.
If you search the News and Observer site or their nando spinoff, you might find an article from a few days ago about "privileged options" and how some people who exercised those options early last year when the stock was selling for, say $50 per share and they had an option to buy for $10 per share, now owe taxes on that $40 paper profit even though they held the stock instead of selling it and it's now worth $6 or $8 on the open market.
--
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
All your misquote are belong to us
by
unitron
·
· Score: 2
Actually JFK's was "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" which isn't quite the same as the sig in question.
As I recall, the JFK quote (which was written for him by Theodore Sorenson or somebody like that) was from his inagural address, although I think I heard something about an earlier (by fifty or a hundred years) speech by someone else with a similar line in it.
--
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Sorry, my friend. if you don't know what it is, you have no business using it in a meeting or in any other way, for that matter. for great justice.
---
You only reported half the news.
by
Hanno
·
· Score: 2
Ok, let's take a breath and stop setting up conspiracy stories, ok, everyone?
According to this story on the ever useful German Heise News Ticker, Microsoft will loose a lot of money on this. They do this because this stock ownership is under scrutiny by the US Department of Justice.
Uh... you are getting Corel and Caldera confused. Corel bought WordPerfect from Novel and a bunch of Borland's office products like Quattro Pro. Caldera bought DR-DOS from Novel. Corel is a Canadian company, Caldera is a Utah company.
don't forget their purchase of Kai Power Tools!
by
cpeterso
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· Score: 2
How is investing in a company and buying non-voting stock "draining it of all it's worth?"
Microsoft invested in Corel which gave them some much needed cash. Corel's stock price fell since then, not because of, but inspite of this investment. My understanding of why Microsoft is moving to sell (note they haven't actually sold, just applied for conversion which they have to do before they can sell) is to avoid a DoJ investigation into what seems like a conflict of interest to invest in a competitor. (If you do anything that involves a computer you are a competitor of Microsoft)
-- Mmmm.. Donuts
But how does loosing $ get them out of trouble?
by
cworley
·
· Score: 2
It seems to me that if Microsoft was trying to dodge a bullet from the DOJ, then they should have removed the strings they attached to the $130M investment.
Remember the big.net agreement Corel signed to get the money? The DOJ would be more worried about that agreement than the money.
Is Microsoft going to end the agreement? The article didn't say.
So, I think Microsoft is doing what I did: getting out of Corel stock before they loose any more money.
It must have been appearant to Microsoft that once Corel had announced their "Integrate by Disintegrating" approach to Linux, that they would no longer be potential competition for Microsoft, and, instead, would continue chasing Microsoft's tail like all app vendors that make apps for WinDoh's.
-- When I die, please cast my ashes upon Bill Gates
-- for once, make him clean up after me!
I think this had something to do with something besides just the antitrust lawsuits which are pending. I believe that this was also somebody's PR move. If you're a multibillion dollar company, you don't exactly want to have your name come up when talking about a financially slipping company in which you have a large section of stock. -----------------------------------------
-- -----------------------------------------
Perversely greped and groped by PowerPenguin
Re:This is clear evidence of MSLinux
by
alexhmit01
·
· Score: 2
What are you talking about that Linux isn't the best Unix, it's more stable than Windows 98!:)
Yeah, it's a shame how much respect Linux gets compared to the actual Unixes. Linux makes Unix available to the masses, in a way the BSDs don't. If I hadn't been running a few Linux boxes for a few years, OpenBSD would have been impossible to pick up.
Besides, NT already has a POSIX layer, it's just incomplete. As we saw with Interix, getting a complete POSIX layer on NT isn't that tough, if they want to go down that route.
I mean, comparing Windows to Linux is silly. Windows is a desktop operating system where stability is traded for features. The comparison of NT to Linux is closer, but still silly. NT aims for a reasonable degree of stability but trades some for features. The software for NT massively beats out the "Linux" software.
The fair comparison of Linux is other Unixes, where Linux doesn't compare all that much. I mean, Redhat is a competitor of MS in the CE market for Kiosks, etc., but not on the desktop. MS really lacks a desktop competitor outside of Apple, which isn't significant unless OS X gets Apple really back in the game.
Server side, the only NT vs. Linux comparison is IIS on NT vs. Apache on Linux, the rest of the software is SO vastly different.
Microsoft: You're ours now.
Corel: Can we still make Linux?
Microsoft: No. Now, we want you to make-
Corel: Linux?
Microsoft: No, coreldraw for-
Corel: Linux?
MIcrosoft: Go away. ----
-- ADVENTURERS! - ANTIHERO FOR HIRE - CARDMASTER CONFLICT
Since that they owned such a big chunk of Corel, they were probably able got a good look at all the source code to the Linux OS! No wonder they are selling it off. They got what they wanted! Are they ever sneaky!!!
WTF is wrong w/ all these companies?
by
small_dick
·
· Score: 2
Any old farts out there? Remember when compilers, linkers, assemblers were like 1-2 thousand dollars? Everyone had a copy (and I do mean copy:-))
Borland broke the mold with Turbo Pascal...innovative, and only $49.00
I hope that ex-rock star running Corel would take a hint and put out really cheap cd's with a paint program, office suite, linux distro...maybe debian with nautilus and ximian gnome for something like $49.00
Economy of scale is the key here...I seriously doubt many people will pay $1500 for Borlands' Kylix.
I'd really like to see Corel recover. Weaning SOHOs and businesses off MS products, for something like $49 a workstation (w/ 30 days support or some such) would be a wise strategy.
--
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
well, they were losing money pretty well before microsoft bought into them, so they probably didn't end up changing all that much actually.
Too bad, Corel was one of the first / most noticeable companies to embrace linux, and the fact that they are tanking now can be interpreted many ways, most of them bad, whether you take M$ into account or not.
________
Microsoft just doesn't know how to sell a company.
by
MongooseCN
·
· Score: 2
M$ is just so used to buying companies that they didn't know how to sell Corel and ended up selling it at half the price.
[I]f Microsoft sells all of these shares at the proposed price of $2.5625 per share,
then Microsoft would only make $61.5 million--a figure that represents half of the $135 million price
Microsoft paid for the shares in October, 2000.
Maybe they're willing to take a loss to reduce their taxes?!
Err, Microsoft invested in Corel, destroyed it and is leaving.. Seriously, so many people saying that - can anyone point to anything that's happened there since Microsoft came in?
Anyway, here's my refined theory: Microsoft needs to keep its competitors afloat and will intercede to rescue them, Apple being the most obvious example. Unfortunately, keeping Corel solvent is beyond even Bill Gates' power. When MS realized Corel was doomed no matter what, they decided to bail so they at least couldn't be blamed for being present at the death scene.
Smart business move...
by
wrinkledshirt
·
· Score: 2
Buy the company, tank it, sell the shares off at a loss, make Corel a laughingstock... And sabotage Corel's chances at providing an Office Suite for Windows AND Linux, thereby tying everybody that much closer to MS for office-software-related solutions.
Very, very smart...
--
--------
Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
What does this mean for .NET?
by
Gendou
·
· Score: 2
Is Corel no longer involved in the.NET crap? Are they going to back to more intense Linux development? This'd probably be the best move for them since they're kind of orphaned now. Question is: can we trust them? *squints*
We should be counting our meager blessings.
by
bellers
·
· Score: 2
If you will recall, one of Microsoft's stipulations when it invested its $130 million dollars in Corel was that Corel would have to implement MS's.NET framework whenever Microsoft said so.
Now, I'm no rocket scientist, but it occurs to me that people might quite possibly start snatching up copies of Corel PerfectOffice the moment that Office XP ships. The people who, rightly, dont feel too warm and fuzzy about renting software. Under the previous arrangement, don't think that MS wouldn't make that phone call to Corel about.NET as soon as they saw Office sales/rentals/subscriptions start to slip.
What I think that this boils down to is that MS realized that the Slash And Burn Dep^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H Corporate Acquisition Department realized that if the DoJ was *already* looking into the investment, before.NET even got off the ground, then they might have done too tidy a job of cornering the market.
Before you get too weepy-eyed about _The_Impending_Death_Of_Corel_, please remember that Perfect Office has been the hot potato of the software world for over a decade. Corel, Borland, Novell, WordPerfect Inc., that product has been second-tier for many years now.
And, dont forget that they also supplied what many considered to be the worst ever distribution of Linux. Buggy and insecure.
No, I dont feel bad for Corel. I like WordPerfect, but I never like CorelDraw or any of Corel's homegrown applications.
What it boils down to is that Corel will most likely fall by the wayside, but the last gasp of that dying company will be to sell PerfectOffice to someone with a little more capital. Perhaps Sun, perhaps Compaq.
Either way, PerfectOffice will go on, and I for one like the idea of a Perfect Office unencumbered by.NET far more than the alternative.
The question then becomes what technology did MS obtain as a part of the initial investment? They could have also used it as an opportunity to try to steer it down a dead end path ala OS/2.
IMHO, the real reason they probably invested in Corel is to give the appearance that they still have competitors (they did the same thing with Apple) in the shrink wrapped office productivitiy market. But now that this move has raised the attention of the DOJ, they're dumping the stock. This will certainly cause Corel's stock to dive even further. It would be really funny, if that would cause the SEC to look into the situation and have multiple agencies trying to take them to court. Wishful thinking, I know, but it would be fun to watch.
-- the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
> Now they can dump it on the market and watch Corel's stock price tank.
Might prove to be a major faux pas, if IBM decides to do what so many people have been suggesting.
--
-- Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Not at all surprising..
by
supabeast!
·
· Score: 3
Selling all of those Corel shares at a loss is probably hundreds of millions (If not billions.) of dollars cheaper than dealing with another antitrust suit. At least M$ is finally learning how to deal with DOJ investigations- Not insulting the prosecuters, government, american people, ignoring DOJ orders, etc.
ALL YOUR SLASHDOT ARE BELONG TO US!!
by
FunkyChild
·
· Score: 3
Yes, it's my own work:) (well except for the Zero Wing art:P)
And when they drain Bungie Studios of all it's worth, it too, will be discarded.
Why does Microsoft sound a lot like a vampire?
It drinks till it's full, then tosses the withered husk by the wayside.
(shudder)
-- -------------------------------------------------- ----
The man, the myth, the something or other.
This is clear evidence of MSLinux
by
Chuck+Flynn
·
· Score: 3
It all makes perfect sense. Why own shares in a competitor to your imminent product? They'd have to divest, and that's what they've done.
Antitrust law discourages companies in the same market from owning stakes in each other, but Microsoft and Corel could previously claim they're not actually in the same market, since their underlying software was different and they were aimed at ostensibly different audiences.
The only explanation for why Microsoft would dump its Corel shares (which have been doing well, lately) is to clear the field for them to bring MSLinux out. It makes perfect sense.
The big question now is whether anyone will buy a Linux distribution from Microsoft.
Microsoft Executive Says Linux Threatens Their Ind
by
Don+Giovanni
·
· Score: 3
Microsoft Executive Says Linux Threatens Their Industry Stranglehold, Competes With Windows
2/14/01 4:57 PM
Source:Bloomberg News
Redmond, Washington, Feb. 14 (Bloomberg) -- Microsoft Corp.'s Windows
bloatware chief, Jim Allchin, says that freely distributed
software code such as rival Linux could stifle Microsoft's innovative
ways of stealing, extorting, and gouging money from it's customers
and that legislators need to understand the threat.
The result will be the demise of both Bill Gates income and
the incentive to support the Dark-side of the force, he said yesterday,
after the company previewed its latest version of eX-Windows. Microsoft
has told U.S. lawmakers of its concern while discussing protection of
intellectual property rights.
Linux is developed in a so-called open-source environment in which the
software code generally isn't owned by any one company. That, as well
as programs such as music-sharing software from Napster Inc., means
the world's largest software maker has to do a better job of bribing
policymakers, he said.
''Open source is an stranglehold destroyer,'' Allchin said.
''I can't imagine something that could be worse than this for our
wallets.''
Microsoft distributes some of its programs without charge to
customers, although it never releases its programming code, except
for experimental research releases of its Research division's IPv6
implementation for NT Foow and Two-Kay, and it retains the ownership
rights to that code. Linux is the most widely known open-source product,
though other programs including the popular Apache system for Web server
computers also are developed the same way.
Corel Inquiry
Allchin made his comments several hours before Microsoft confirmed
that its $135 million investment in software maker Corel Corp. last
October is being reviewed by the U.S. Justice Department. MS/Corel said
last month it willl drop efforts to develop the Linux operating
system, though it will continue to make Linux applications. Corel _said_
it hadn't consulted with Microsoft before making that decision.
Brian Behlendorf, founder of open-source company CollabNet Inc., said
most companies that use the open-source development model do retain
the rights to some of their intellectual property.
''I think Microsoft is trying to paint the open-source community as
being fascist; that all software have has to be free, or none of it
can be,'' said Behlendorf, whose company helps businesses run their
own open-source projects.
Allchin said he's concerned that the open-source business model could
stifle blind ambition and greed in the computer industry.
''I'm an American, I believe in the American Way of beating down and
destroying your competitors at all costs,'' he said. ''I worry
if the government encourages open source, and I don't think we've done
enough education of policy makers to understand the threat.''
Linux Adoption
Some leading computer companies including International Business
Machines Corp. and Hewlett-Packard Co. are selling Linux- based
products and working on open-source projects, noted Jeremy Allison, a
VA Linux Systems Inc. software developer. He's also a leader in a
project develop an open-source file and printer server program.
Microsoft only began significant bribery efforts in the last few
years. The Redmond, Washington-based company also talks to lawmakers
about issues including the need for more visas for people with
computer skills and computer privacy and security, because people
in other countries who develop for Windows refuse to figure out how to
use CVS.
Linux is the fastest-growing operating system program for running
server computers, according to research firm IDC. It accounted for 27
percent of unit shipments of server operating systems in 2000.
Microsoft's Windows was the most popular on that basis, with 41
percent. But who's counting?
Despite Linux's success in some markets, Allchin says he isn't
concerned about sales competition from the product. Microsoft provides
support to change and develop products based on its operating system
software that Linux companies don't, he said. Companies that use Linux
in their products then must pay someone else for support, he said.
''We can build a better product than Linux,'' he said. ''There is
always something enamoring about thinking you can get something for
free.''
That last statement made this CNET editor wonder if he is a hypocrite or
just another foot-pedestal to the leader of the evil-empire, Gates.
I mean, if he thinks open-source is stifling their innovation and incentive,
then why did he say "We can build a better product than Linux"?
And why have they not yet done so? deerg!
In a related story summed up at the bottom of the original blurb (original link here):
"Alarm bells first rang when it emerged last October that Corel's mystery investor was none other than Microsoft. They should have rung louder... Now it appears the United States Department of Justice is taking a closer look at the antitrust implications of that transaction."
"To be brutally honest, I'm not going to shed any tears over the death of Corel's Linux distribution... On the other hand the passing of WordPerfect for Linux and WordPerfect Office for Linux would be more of a worry. Officially these products have not yet been dumped - but don't hold your breath."
"But there's another reason to worry about the demise of Corel's Linux offering, the company
has played a major role in the development of Wine. In January Corel outlined its business plan
in a press release. Wine isn't specifically mentioned, but the company says it will continue to develop Linux applications and presumably this means the Wine contribution will continue. This
means that a Microsoft controlled company is going to play a major role in the development
of Wine. Is anyone looking at the antitrust implications of that?"
While the original article is far more in depth, and goes on to mention that this is more likely a remnant of the previous administration, I can not but help start to feel like the republicans do about Clinton. It is hard. I try to control my dark side.
But MS..., each day one of its' minions goes and does something that just irritates the hell out of me.
I'm going to have to start painting MS in the pictures of royalist France or something. Or maybe Napoleon. They are really starting to irritate me.
-- "It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Microsoft knows how to sell companies? I had no idea.
Sabotage and Dump
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 5
Well, they got what they wanted. Corel is "out" of Linux distribution and no longer in competition with Microsoft. No need to hold onto the stock anymore. Now they can dump it on the market and watch Corel's stock price tank.
Sabotage and Dump.
HELLO GENTLEMAN
by
Anonymous Coward
·
· Score: 5
Microsoft: ALL YOUR COREL SHARE ARE BELONG TO US !!
Corel: WHAT YOU SAY !!
Microsoft: Ooh, whoops, I mean you can have them all. My bad.
Corel: YOU HAVE NO CHANCE TO SURVIVE MAKE YOUR TIME.
Microsoft: HA HA HA HA HA HA...
With 20 posts already, no one has mentioned the fact that the Corel acquisition was getting them into deeper trouble with the antitrust people at the DOJ. I don't know why they'd be bothered about that now and not before, but maybe they didn't think it would raise eyebrows. Anyway, that seems to be the most likely explanation for why they're bailing now.
For the people claiming "Microsoft invested in Corel, destroyed and is leaving the body for the vultures." -could you please elaborate on what they did to accomplish that? Persuade them that there was a meaningful Linux desktop market to target?
Slashdot Mirror
It definitely originated as the intro in the old arcade (or megadrive or PC engine) game Zero Wing. It became famous in a thread on somethingawful.com
It is interesting to speculate that Dubya has seen Mr. Bill for the loose cannon that he really is. Any competent politician should be able to see a potential embarrassment coming from a long way off!
I can't help wondering whether some high functionary has approached Mr. Bill, off the record, and told him, "Knock it off, you big, fat, fool, before you get yourself in real trouble!".
It really is amusing to see all of the "MS is running scared" crap being posted. How a company with well over 90% of the desktop market sewn up could ever be considered to be "running scared" is well beyond my train of thought.
:)) but I can see quite clearly that although our beloved Linux is making inroads, it will be a long time before "MICROSOFT IS RUNNING SCARED!".
:)
I am a 100% Linux user (well almost - only for the odd game do I reboot
What can be said is that Microsoft is a cautious player of the market and will endeavour to snuff any flame out before it has the capacity to compete with their own fscked version of the particular product in question - this is how one ties up 90% of a market for those that didn't know.
The other thing thats annoying is to see all of the "Microsoft bought Corel, destroyed the threat and dumped it" bullshit. Does anyone have any kind of evidence of this? Or are we just playing the typical pile shit on MS game for the sheer hell of it that we usually see on Slashdot?
Perhaps they just wanted to opt out of a company that is obviously not doing too well before they lost anymore money on the deal.
Even a company as gargantuan as MS has to be smart with its money you know
I am sure that Microsoft planned to do this all along, they didn't just decide to dump Corel this when they were investigated for yet another antitrust violation. The deliberately did this to depress the stock price of a competitor, while all along they were publicly saying they were partners.
Let me give you a similar example.
Microsoft made a $150m investment in nonvoting shares of Apple, which was made in exchange for Apple making IE the "browser of choice." Microsoft secretly bought about $80million of AAPL options, selling short. So that way, no matter if Apple stock went up or down, MS was covered.
At the end of the 3 year agreement, MS exercised its option to convert the $150m into regular AAPL preferred stock shares. Then MS secretly started dumping the stocks at low prices, in an attempt to depress the price of AAPL during a time of 4Q vulnerability. AAPL prices remained depressed until Jan 1 2001 when their stock and options were exhausted. Then, miraculously, the stock prices started rising again. The Red Herring newsletter described the events in detail, and estimated that MS blew $90m just to depress the stock price.
So, you can see why I think MS did this deliberately. They deliberately intended to gut Corel, then sell it as a distressed property.
So remember, keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. And be careful to keep a close eye on who is just pretending to be your friend.
Except it hasn't been established that MS Office is actually a better product. Only Lemmings that wish to save face regarding their past purchases assume so.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
by sinking money into Corel it didn't kill it is what I meant.
how did they kill it? They did nothing but sink money into it. Corel has been on a downhill slide for a long time.
What killed Corel was the introduction of Microsoft Office. The buying of shares in Corel did nothing but allow them to hold on for longer...
Corel is a good company with good products. They unfortuantly can't keep up w/the domination that Microsoft creates... Such is life.
>> Softimage
> Belongs to MS
Where have you been?
M$ sold Softimage a couple years ago.
You don't know me. I'm just curious about something (it's really silly). Please e-mail me. I promise that I won't harrass you. Use your throwaway Hotmail/Yahoo/etc. address if you have one and are paranoid. :-)
Please drop me an email; I haven't been able to find yours.
openbsd (well.. -> theo de raadt anyway) is based in canada. the whole export of encryption thing. sure about the freebsd part?
not to offend any freebsd hackers. or canadians for that matter.
*loose money*? you mean *lose* money.
Ah, a spelling flame. Sorry, I'm German. English is only my second language.
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You may like my a cappella music
It was for the price.
(Back in 92-93 you could get Office for Windows for less than the price of the DOS WordPerfect wordprocessor by itself. Once you added Lotus 1-2-3 and Harvard Graphics, the cost was well over 3 times what Microsoft was charging for an more accessible product.)
--
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
Forget MSLinux already. Never gonna happen. IF it were, why would they be spending all their time and resources on Windows XP, when all they really would need to do is make a new skin for KDE or GNOME?
No, they dumped the shares in Corel because they didn't want to have to answer any more questions to the Justice Department about Corel's activities since they invested in them (dumping Linux, etc). This way, if Corel goes bottom up a year from now they can step back and say "Hey, we bought into them, things weren't working out, we sold out, and look what happened, we were right", rather than having to explain "yes, we bought this company and purposefully drove it into the ground".
corel office isnt any real ms office competitor. its simply an alternative. tghe only true competitor to ms's stranglehold is opensource aka openoffice alo0ng with gnomes bonobo.
meridian at tha.net
A spokesperson for Microsoft quantified the corporations position today: "It turns out that Corel was worth less than half of what we paid for it. We should have known, the way they backed down on their licensing on Corel Linux last year. No company that will allow its IP to get out of iron-handed control can be good for the software industry or America in general. We thought they had products worth assimilating, but well, at least we threw a wrench into that whole WordPerfect for Linux thing, and if this deflects any inquiries into our monopoly, so much the better. We aren't giving up WaterWorks, though."
--
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"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
I don't know who you are. I don't know anyone from the USSR.
cpeterso
I think MS is running scared. They have so many antitrust suits against them they had to do something to protect themselves.
Go Linux!!
-- DuckWing
> This may be a sign that MS care less about Linux than they used to - perhaps they are even abandoning a possible dot net port to Linux given the fact that Linus seems to be tanking at the moment
Yeah, you're right. After Microsoft's execs announced that Linux was "crummy" and "anti-American", nobody seems to use it anymore.
Bill can sleep easier at night now, knowing that his people closed down a scam that suckered people into not having to pay for their software.
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Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Is it me or does Microsoft seem a lot like either:
1) The Alien
2) The alien from Species
MSLinux? I doubt it. They have their own OS with BILLIONS of dollars invested. It just don't work that way.
Unless, of course, they bring it out just to test the GPL in the courts.
Its not like Microsoft's buy in to Corel was a hostile takeover. Blame Microsoft all you want but Corel went into this partnership knowingly...
Perhaps if they had stuck to their guns, left MS out in the cold and stayed in the Linux business, nothing would be different today ???
Oxryly
Sorry, but you can't do this. I already patented this program. You will receive the appropriate letters from my lawyers soon...
nosig today
How does paying more for something reduce the TCO?
Right now most businesses can decide for themselves weather to upgrade or not and when to upgrade. Being forced to upgrade weather you like it or not and whenever MS tells you to regardless of your cash flow does not reduce the TCO.
War is necrophilia.
"If you do anything that involves a computer you are a competitor of Microsoft)"
Yes MS is involved in just about every software market. It's also involved in some computer hardware markets.
Of course it is also involved in media companies and venture capital also.
I would venture to say that there are very fields in which the ms juggernaut is NOT involved in.
War is necrophilia.
I believe that you are indeed mistaken. The announcement of dropping linux came AFTER ms gave them money.
War is necrophilia.
Arguably the current state of the art word processor gpl-ed? That would hit hard. :=)
I modded you down because you're talking rubbish. You obviously don't understand how free-software works.
.Net only works on that platform. How the hell is that different to what we've got now with Windows?
So what if there's a MSLinux with proprietry hooks so that
MSLinux CAN'T subvert Linux, BSD, etc. BECAUSE THEY'RE FREE. If you don't like what MS (theoretically) do in the future, roll your own distribution and set up in competition.
Don't feel bad, it took me a few moment to see the difference. And English is my first language.
Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
Winning the war? Your lame open source socialist ass hasnt even won a battle yet.
Not to be a party pooper but I believe that Corel was already in hot water before they received an infusion of cash from Microsoft. Their Corel Linux dsitribution was not receiving rave reviews and CorelOffice for Linux was less than stellar. I'm pretty sure that Corel was screwed before Microsoft got involoved.
vi
--
python -c "x='python -c %sx=%s; print x%%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))%s'; print x%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))"
Doctor 3:00 AM?? Who's that?
"I'll take the red pill. No! Blue! AAAaaaahhhhhhhhh"
- Monty Python meets the Matrix
Logically, it makes perfect sense if MS Office is a better product than Corel Office.
What an underhanded technique, kill your competition by coming out with a better product.
So the poster could be arguing that Microsoft did not kill Corel, their better product did.
Of course, people can argue which is better. Just like they argue emacs vs. vi.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." -- Albert Einstein
This was discussed on Slashdot a long time ago.
Some people brought up that the employees end up paying taxes when they sell the stock they acquired by exercising the options.
Which would you propose:
1) The company pays tax and the employees get huge gains on stock options tax free.
2) The employee pays the tax on the huge gain and the company does not (the present situation)
3) Both the employee and the company pay tax on the options. (good for the government, bad for the company, no difference for the employee)
4) Stock options are outlawed because no one should be able to profit from their own hard work.
When the employees own a lot of company stock, the distinction between the employees and the company gets blurred a bit. But "employee owners" can be fired. Other stock holders can't.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." -- Albert Einstein
I'm really easy to get along with once you people learn to worship me.
"Microsoft Bails Out Of Corel" "A Million Bucks, Mach 7.6, Straight Down"
Heh, heh...
"that's-gonna-leave-a-mark"
Heh.
15 Aug 00 Cowpland resigns as Pres/CEO Burney takes over as interim CEO and hires Dogbert consulting for study
27 Sep - Q3 announced
2 Oct - Corel/Microsoft alliance announced
3 Oct - Burney confirmed President/CEO
15 Dec - Corel responds to rumours that it has not sold Linux div but considering options
8 Jan - Corel announces restructuring press conference for 23 Jan
'early' Jan - Cdn Competition Bureau in Ottawa and US DoJ start probe of Corel/Microsoft deal
23 Jan - Press conference shows new logo and not much else
25 Jan 01 - Cowpland Resigns from BOD
2 Feb - Q4 earnings
20 Feb - Microsoft asks for preferred shares to be converted to common shares that can be sold. They are also voting shares so if they do not sell them they have a greater say in Corel's business.
So it appears that Burney was going to announce the selling of the Linux division on 23 Jan but was stopped by the DoJ investigation. Cowpland sees the writing on the wall and bails out thus reducing his legal liability. Other possibilities were that he was disgusted with the Microsoft deal and the way the company was going or it was part of the deal that to get the financing Cowpland had to go within 6 months.
At least this explains the non announcement on 23 Feb but did Microsoft really spend $135 million just to get rid of Cowpland?
As an aside, I am hoping that Burney appoints a relative of Cdn prime Minister Jean Cretien or a high level Liberal crony as the new replacement director so that Corel can get some Canadian Govt contracts.
It is ironic that while the US Govt has ruled that Microsoft is a monopoly and has used illegal practices to dominate the office suite market, the Canadian Govt only chose to investigate the anti competitive practice of Microsoft investing in Corel.
Why did they not investigate in 1996 when Corel bought WordPerfect and the Canadian Govt depts started to choose Microsoft over Corel even though WP has been the standard in Canada for 15 years previous? I think it is because Bill Davis, Barbara McDougall and some of the other Directors were all high ranking Conservative party supporters. Even Derek Burney's dad was a former PC party fund-raiser and advisor to Brian Mulroney. Since the Liberals are in power for at least the next 4 years, Corel should bite the bullet and cut their Conservative ties. A good start would be with a new Liberal Director.
Today's vices may be tomorrow's virtues.
Some of the comments I have heard is that it looks like an Alien or a toliet. Considering the stock price, the latter is probally more appropriate.
If you look at the three D version here it looks like a phallus. Maybe that is way Burney has his head in in hands vowing never to higher the Dogbert consulting company again?
Today's vices may be tomorrow's virtues.
Nope. IIRC, it's by Thomas Jefferson. JFK quoted him in his inauguration (sp?) speech.
Free Manning, jail Obama.
Maybe this is a new MS strategy. Buy a big hunk of your competitor which brings their stability into question. Wait a few weeks while everyone realizes you can buy and sell anyone you want to. Dump the stock and watch the company shrivel and die.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT
You forgot the rinse cycle.
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Move '.sig'
From what I've heard, some big companies (Microsoft and Cisco in particular) count the stock options they give their employees against their revenue, and so end up paying little in taxes anyway.
Can anyone else say wether this is true or not?
Corel was screwed before getting into Linux, too. They've been searching forever for some kind of 'silver bullet' that'll change things for them and get them back to gaining more customers rather than just trying to maintain their declining customer base. Corel's problem has never been anything but the quality (or lack thereof) of their products. Corel Wordperfect 6 for Windows, 7 and 8 were horrific programs that rarely worked, and often messed up systems just by installing them. The new Corel CEO seems to be more grounded than Micheal Cowpland was, since he picked up on any technology and wasted far too much money on trying to develop for that, only to drop it shortly after (remember WordPerfect for Java?). Honestly, Corel is doing the right thing -- continuing their core products (for any platform they can support), and dropping the ones that can't win.
I used up all my sick days, so I'm calling in dead.
Slashdot has always wondered if Microsoft would and could try to kill Linux. Could this be it?!
Oh wait...
I may be getting it wrong here,but if Corel buys back the stock from Microsoft that's still 60 Milions in their pockets without doing anything. That's pure profit.So why does everybody see this as a bad news?I'd say it's time for party at Corel HQ.Even if they don't buy it back that still leaves them with enough cash in hand to operate for another year or so.
The best way to escape from a problem is to solve it. Alan Saporta
hehe your post seems self contradicting. "What killed Corel was the introduction of Microsoft Office" yet Microsoft did not kill Corel??? Hehe silly goose.. think about it
Jeremy
and that would be...?
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Peace,
Lord Omlette
ICQ# 77863057
[o]_O
Fuck you cunt.
:wq
exactly what I was going to say. Since Corel dumped their Linux division then microsoft couldn't be a parasitic monster that it generally is.
Software schmoftware. Y'all still have Nortel, eh?
(to the humor-impaired moderator, you'll want to use -1 Flamebait...)
/Brian
Hmmm... Microsoft announces it doesn't like open source and then finds out they have stocks in an openly open source supportive company, so they dump it all. Stupid Microsoft.
--
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2.Windows 3.1 detects non-MS DOS and errors. Arguably, the result of less - than - ethical coding
That's correct...however...
3.Corel buys DR DOS, sues MS
No, it's more like Ray Noorda spins off Caldera from Novell. Caldera sues M$. Caldera wins. Caldera stops developing DR DOS.
The Corel/M$ entanglement was a completely different matter.
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http://www.msgeek.org/
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
You know that sharp painful feeling you have in the corner of your mouth? Its a hook, you've been trolled.
Hmmmm.....
if IBM decides to do what so many people have been suggesting
you mean buy Wordperfect and Open Source it Like Sun Did? Boy, I just wish!! WordPerfect is the ONLY Wordprocessor, which is as good as M$Word!(maybe even Better!) and has really good import/export filters. Well, a guy can dr3am can't he?
-Oh Granny your eyes are BIG and RED!
-it's from rebooting WinNT servers all night, said the wolf
> XP stands for Expert
XP has most commonly stood for Experimental, which definitely applies to MickeySlop's software products.
Corel, what the hell did you expect ?? You come into the Linux community expecting open arms, it took a while until you started to get some respect, then you turn your self over to the enemy. Let me take a wild guess, the next version of Corel Linux is already in the works ?
until (succeed) try { again(); }
until (succeed) try { again(); }
uhh, so they paid 60 million to look at free source code?
--
Really Mac OS sopied BSD. Are you fucking kidding?
Isn't OS X based on FreeBSD?
They've even stolen Apple's new naming convention for Windows. Yeah, Mac OS has an X, so lets go one better and have an XP after our name. Microsoft is indefensible
XP stands for Expert, I really don't see any relation here.
Ever since Bill 'wanker' Gates invented the concept of the 'ownership' of software with his letter to users of his lame-assed 'basic' language, Microsoft has sought to gain profit from software, which as a natural resouce should be free.
I've been right before, and I am right now. I don't trust those Redmond Retards any further than I can throw them.
I don't know who's the retard. Let me think. MS works their ass off, market their products like crazy and they want to make big money out of it. On the other side you work your ass off, you're a code addict and you just love giving away the Programs you worked so hard to create. Who's the retard someone who wants to make money doing what they love or someone who wants no money for doing what he loves? If you feel like being the next Mother Theresa, it's your choice but don't come complaining when you're out of money. Yes kiddie it takes money to buy food, water, house, etc.
Alias|Wavefront
:)
Who?
Softimage
Belongs to MS
Discreet
Heuh?
FreeBSD Instead of giving 50% of their profits to the government, the only smart workaround was to give the OS for free
They really don't feel like having another antitrust suit just because they Bought shares in Corel. They had no choice but to sell.
Damn It was the biggest software company we Canadians had. I guess no one around feels like opening up a company in Canada and giving more than half of their profits to the government? :)
Forget Microsoft Linux, XENIX is the solution that Microsoft is going to try to bring back! I still find it amazing that most Microsoft products (QuickC for example) up to the mid-nineties still supported their dead operating system.
The clash of honour calls, to stand when others fall.
Did you read the article I linked to?
Do you know about microsoft's practice of paying employees with stock and then taking a tax break on it? Do you know how dangerous this is, esp. considering the number of retirement plans that relie up Microsoft stock?
It's irresponsible, and it's fucking US two ways... by microsoft not fair share of taxes, and by cause a potential instability in an already fragile tech market.
Ok, so we have Microsoft selling at a loss.
The 60 Mil or so they are losing is of no big deal.
They don't need it for taxes, they already have cooperate welfare:
Basically, Microsoft receives cash by issuing employee stock options, after which the company then receives billions of dollars in tax deductions from the IRS for doing so.
So the motivation is not profit or taxes...
I'm trying to work out a logical process here...
So what do we have left?
1. The anti-trust thing.
2. What else would make them bail? Is it linux related? It's hard to tell... I think this is a jump of gun, in that the event has happen, but no party has given a good reason. I know why I sell stock, but I'm sure those same influences don't apply to microsoft, considering the amount of moneys they have.
I'm just really curious to wait and see what Microsoft has to say, if anything, about this sell.
If I recall correctly my dad bought Office 97 when it came out for 350EUR (not very sure), but we are happy with it and we already use it for 4 years. So technically a subscription to Office would need to be less than 7.3EUR/month to be competitve. Service packs were freely downloadable for Office 97. Consider then that all four PC's in our house have he same Office on it (which is illegal, considering EULA), it lowers TCO even more. Every year that I use this Office 97 longer will be pure gain for me. If I had a subscription, even if it only were 5 EUR/month..over 4 years, for 4 computers it would be 5EUR*12(month)*4(years)*4(computers) = 960 EUR total cost. Ouch! And that only to do a bit accounting, an homework and presentations for school? Not to forget that I didn't have to update any machine in order to keep running Office 97, something which would not be guaranteed to be the case with subscription based software.
You also claim also that companies can choose whether they upgrade or not... Sure, theoretically that is true, but consider this: your business is not alone. Your company is likely to communicate with other businesses: the day your CEO recieves an Office 2000 document and he cannot open it because your company has adopted Office 97 as a standard, what is he going to do? He is not going to mail back to the other CEO to remail it in a compatible format, but he is going to call you and tell you that the IT material is outdated and it needs to get upgraded.
(Oh, yeah, and "weather" is the thing outside like rain and snow and sunshine...what you mean is "whether")
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
Most software isn't that way. My example was for "Joe-Loser-Family-Computer-Owner" (Yes, that's me!) using Office 97, the category in which most end user software falls. I say the TCO is very low in the "Buy-Once-Use-Often", scenario depicted and I calculate the TCO (over 4 years) on a basis of 4 computers running a rented Office for 4 years. 350EUR (bought) < 940EUR (rented)....In what way is my reasoning illogical? Buying and keeping a long time results in a low TCO. That's all.
On a side note, I see you do not work for a huge company where everything goes over comany policy. Your company is probably one of the few that doesn't mind getting resumes in .RTF? Microsoft has already taken us the freedom of choice in document formats. Heck, I still would be using Wordperfect 5.1 for DOS, if I didn't get .DOC, .XLS and .PPT in a contiunous flood. Right now everything goes well, since most companies stick with 97. How long will it take that big companies convert to 2000 and everyone will *have* to follow for the sake of compatibilty. You know, you just don't say to some partner of some huge consulting group: "Oh, please send it in Word 97, because we don't support Word 2000". Believe me he will look at you with a dull unbelieving expression.
I agree that you office setup is very reasonable, but it will probably only be usable in small offices...and as long as there are no queues forming in front of those few workstations. Besides, I fear for intercompatibility between Office 2000 and Office 97....I have had some nightmares with Office 97 vs. Office 95
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
Come on guys! "Steve Jobs: All your GeForce3 are belong to us." from the earlier article was just as funny as this one! And it got modded down to 2,Redundant.
It's still funny! Sorry to those of you who are sick of this already.
'Enhancements' to MS means 'It will not work unless you are on a MS approved platform'
and then it follows that "freedom to innovate" means people have to use microsoft products if 'they want to use a computer'.
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
I wonder what m$ will attempt to do with GPL to enforce some sort EULA on it. Will M$ be the first to test GPL in the court system? That could be dangerous in itself.
Forget Microsoft Linux, XENIX is the solution that Microsoft is going to try to bring back!
Sorry, but you forgot that MS sold XENIX to SCO many years ago...wait, what happened to SCO...?
In order for Corel to survive, they will probably need to sell off their assetts. Why not open source previous versions of WP? I would love to have WP5.1, 6.1 and 7.0 available to hack into a really good word processor for linux- with an open source flavour added, of course.
They stuck me in an institution, said it was the only solution, to...protect me from the enemy, myself
I suspect MS was in power over Correll just long enough to enter into some 'agreements' meant to be the 'Bait' for Correll forming a 'close working relationship', now here's the 'switch' where good 'ole MS just takes a hike and says "you're on your own Correll, don't you violate those IP contracts you signed into"
just speculation on my part, MS has a way with 'working relationships' that always seems to strip others of their own "Intellectual Property", or at least make that I.P. somehow useless
"The Most Fun Possible on 4 wheels" is at SunBuggy in Las Vegas
Well, have just been waiting for it. Corel stocks dropping like flies, and M$ have now figured out, that they lost enough on it. Pure and simple economy.
NumB http://www.engvig.net
If I am not mistaken, Corel had already announced that it was considering getting out of the linux business BEFORE Microsoft put $135M into the company. And it's stock had already tanked before Microsoft put enough money in the company to keep it solvent for a little while longer.
I have no idea what Microsoft's intentions were with the deal, but Corel was a dead duck before Microsoft arrived.
"Microsoft has made computing accessible to a population who would otherwise not be able to use computers" - B. Kernigha
Bill Gates guide to making a Monopoly:
Step 1: Observe competition.
Step 2: If competition is a corporation, buy it out.
Step 3: Kill the corporation off.
Step 4: Dump the corporation.
Step 5: Repeate.
I'm sure we all saw this coming. It *was* inevitable...
Do they prefer Walgreens?
Can anyone give me the definitive origin of the "All your bases are belong to us" thing? I would like to use it in a presentation next week.
"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." -- GBS
I find it interesting that Microsoft owned shares of a company that sold directly competitive products (Linux vs. Windows, Wordperfect vs. Office, etc.) Doesn't that seem counterproductive to anyone else? I mean, if I'm wrong help me out.
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evil adrian
evil adrian
...and to be relief of Microsoft. Corel is now humming to the right MS tune and is only developing for the Windows platform? Sounds like a win for MS.
MS copies anything it can.
market their products like crazy
Blatently lies to the consumer.
they want to make big money out of it.
And to have a Monopoly.
Who's the retard someone who wants to make money doing what they love or someone who wants no money for doing what he loves?
If you have to ask this question, you have already lost the battle. It is not for nothing that the world's major religions all have a rule that 'it is better to give than to receive'. Perhaps if you could look beyond your personal greed toward the greater good of humanity you would not come across as a money-grabbing sociopath with no concern for ethics and morals.
Yes kiddie it takes money to buy food, water, house, etc.
Espcecially if your house cost $59 million, and has garage space for 30 vehicles, and plasma screen TVs in every room. NOBODY deserves to be as rich as Bill Gates. I do not CARE what he has done or not done. Morally, he is the equivalent of Osma Bin Ladin or Gerry Adams. He will pay the price when he has to come face to face with his creator.
Holy fuck. You open-source programmers have some free time to kill. don't you have anything better to do. Like maybe clip your toe-nails?
P2P Anonymous Distributed Web Search: http://www.yacy.net/
There are many ways to prevent that loss.
They could have "shorted against the box". No upside gain on that.
purchased put options. cost of options but all upside is there.
Called a professional hedging company to cover there entire position. This is the best way. Basicaly they take an option (money / stock ) against your cash value of your stock postion. they then give you money. At the due date, you must give them your stock or the amount of money you got from them ( it's your choice ). So if your stock went down you deliver the stock, or if the stock is up you deliver the money. If handled carefully, the money you got made a good return and you would only have had to deliver money and a small bit of your stock.
ONEPOINT
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Stock options are a right off not a Loss. Very simular, but different definitions.
Losses can be structured to be used at different times over the life of the loss, against profit ( net or gross i don't recall ) on a 1 to 1 basis. Atleast that's how I'm told to do it for my books.
right offs are used against current assests. They have an implied value from an asset. example inventory bought @ 100.00 currently worth 10.00 has an implied value of 100. but a real value of 10. your inventory right off is 90.
If I donate it, I could get an Implied right-off of 100.00. Accountants know how this trick works I don't)
ONEPOINT
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First they buy the stock, then they tell them ( very hush hush of course ) STOP the Linux stuff, then they dump the stock.
Got to admit, as strong armers, they know how to do it correctly and legaly. they'll get there due anyway.
ONEPOINT
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WordPerfect killed itself by taking way too long to develop a WYSIWYG interface for the PC. All MS had to do was port thier very good, Mac-leading MS Word (which Mac people, including me, loved) over to the PC.
When I joined the "real world" after college, they had PC's with WordPerfect on them, and I couldn't stand the hideousness of that product. When Windows 3.0 came out, MS Word was up and running fine, while WordPerfect was still messing around with the old style of interface. How blind can a corporation be?
I am for the complete Trantorization of Earth.
What do Microsoft and a mosquito have in common?
They acquire their tagets, suck them dry and leave a bad itch when they leave.
What do Microsoft and your new gilfriend have in common? They both suck real good, and when they go away they leave you broke.
Anyone got better ones?
Look at HTML tags (aka the browser wars) and what MS tried to do with Java.
'Enhancements' to MS means 'It will not work unless you are on a MS approved platform'
Sneaky bastards.
"We are not a monopoly!cried the PR department as they dump another used-up company in the bin ...
I wonder how much this has to do with Windows XP?
I guess I should stay away from those Corel people too.
That was the main reason that MS bought shares in Corel.
What would happen to it now?
--
Two witches watched two watches.
Which witch watched which watch?
"He will pay the price when he has to come face to face with his creator."
... the "eternal reward" for my obedience and observance of laws, both human nature related and legal, right doesn't fucking brighten my day, nor does "the eternal punishment" for those who have wronged me.
Lovely. I think the first message in this thread and the above quote quite possibly qualifies you as the biggest windbag on Slashdot.
If you think you're doing advocacy a favour by denouncing Microsoft's creator as an abomination and making inane claims like ".NET will be for Linux, along with Office2000, on the Microsoft Linux distro" (neverminding the GPL's protection of user from a proprietary Linux system; no one can make a Linux distribution with special core C libraries [Libc],) then think again. "Advocacy" of that nature just shows the utterly assinine "wOrld domination!!!!" attitude maintained by some in the Linux camp.
Let's be realistic about THE operating system we use, the company we dislike and religion/GOD in general. I live with far less money then the average populus makes on average
mwtr / THIS SIG HAS BEEN PRAYED OVER AND MAY BE USED AS A POINT OF CONTACT (ACTS 19:12)
I think MS were forced into this by an impending DoJ investigation - sad as it robs Corel of the investment.
This may be a sign that MS care less about Linux than they used to - perhaps they are even abandoning a possible dot net port to Linux given the fact that Linus seems to be tanking at the moment - so this is doubly sad as it would have been nice to have a decent bridge between the two environments.
Or <insert conspiracy theory here> Was it because MS had "sucked them dry" - yeah right, and Bill Gates hides under my bed in the dark just waiting for me to go to sleep to jump out and suck my blood as well....
**Vanuatu or bust**
---------------------
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Buying out the struggling competition - $135 million Forcing them to port your apps to Linux - $150 million Turning around and dumping their shares - priceless
Yup. I've been waiting for MSLinux for years (well, about two years anyway). Not that I intend to buy the disks, but I'd be tempted to download the ISO images from their free FTP site...
Do you remember a few years back when Bill Gates was in all the industry press saying "... the internet is not important... ", and then a few months later saying "... the internet is everything... "?
MS has proven itself to be ruthlessly adaptable in the past - if Linux continues to rise and Microsoft's new products don't establish a growing market share, MSLinux could well be on the cards.
If you can't beat 'em, imitate and assimilate! Beware!
Bass_Wulf
Soundcheck Poem: 1 2 was a racehorse and 1 1 was 1 2. 1 2 1 1 race and 1 1 1 1 2.
Last week MarketPlace (on NPR) reported that as part of Microsoft's purchace/bail out of Corel, Corel Corp. agreed to completely disengage itself from any and all development on Linux. I guess the rumors of some months ago of an office port to Linux were misleading. More, ominously, this seems to fly in the face of the court ruling and a definitive tactics that brought about that ruling.
Yeah, but who sired who? Did CA sire Microsoft, or did Microsoft sire CA? And why can't they just hang out in the corporate coven together like all the other vampires?
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Wrong. My college, for one, does. Students are "strongly encouraged" to use only Microsoft Word. This is for compatibility reasons, because all instructors must, by contract, use Microsoft Word. Also, they must use Excel, Powerpoint, Access, and Visual Studio. We've currently got an insane infestation of various Outlook viruses in our all-Windows computer labs. So don't you pull that "no-one's forcing you to use MS stuff" argument. Some of us *are* forced.
If you search the News and Observer site or their nando spinoff, you might find an article from a few days ago about "privileged options" and how some people who exercised those options early last year when the stock was selling for, say $50 per share and they had an option to buy for $10 per share, now owe taxes on that $40 paper profit even though they held the stock instead of selling it and it's now worth $6 or $8 on the open market.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
As I recall, the JFK quote (which was written for him by Theodore Sorenson or somebody like that) was from his inagural address, although I think I heard something about an earlier (by fifty or a hundred years) speech by someone else with a similar line in it.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
Sorry, my friend. if you don't know what it is, you have no business using it in a meeting or in any other way, for that matter. for great justice.
---
Ok, let's take a breath and stop setting up conspiracy stories, ok, everyone?
According to this story on the ever useful German Heise News Ticker, Microsoft will loose a lot of money on this. They do this because this stock ownership is under scrutiny by the US Department of Justice.
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You may like my a cappella music
3.Corel buys DR DOS, sues MS
Uh... you are getting Corel and Caldera confused. Corel bought WordPerfect from Novel and a bunch of Borland's office products like Quattro Pro. Caldera bought DR-DOS from Novel. Corel is a Canadian company, Caldera is a Utah company.
Corel doesn't have a focused business model.
cpeterso
Dear Mr. Gates,
I've written the next killer app, a 3D Hello World program. Buy me out for half a billion, and I won't release it.
Eagerly awaiting your cash^w reply.
--
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
It sounded to me like something that could've originated from Pokey the Penguin (http://www.yellow5.com/pokey/), but evidently it isn't.
Is not by anon. It's by JFK.
Best Slashdot Co
How is investing in a company and buying non-voting stock "draining it of all it's worth?"
Microsoft invested in Corel which gave them some much needed cash. Corel's stock price fell since then, not because of, but inspite of this investment. My understanding of why Microsoft is moving to sell (note they haven't actually sold, just applied for conversion which they have to do before they can sell) is to avoid a DoJ investigation into what seems like a conflict of interest to invest in a competitor. (If you do anything that involves a computer you are a competitor of Microsoft)
Mmmm.. Donuts
It seems to me that if Microsoft was trying to dodge a bullet from the DOJ, then they should have removed the strings they attached to the $130M investment.
.net agreement Corel signed to get the money? The DOJ would be more worried about that agreement than the money.
Remember the big
Is Microsoft going to end the agreement? The article didn't say.
So, I think Microsoft is doing what I did: getting out of Corel stock before they loose any more money.
It must have been appearant to Microsoft that once Corel had announced their "Integrate by Disintegrating" approach to Linux, that they would no longer be potential competition for Microsoft, and, instead, would continue chasing Microsoft's tail like all app vendors that make apps for WinDoh's.
When I die, please cast my ashes upon Bill Gates -- for once, make him clean up after me!
I think this had something to do with something besides just the antitrust lawsuits which are pending. I believe that this was also somebody's PR move. If you're a multibillion dollar company, you don't exactly want to have your name come up when talking about a financially slipping company in which you have a large section of stock.
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Perversely greped and groped by PowerPenguin
What are you talking about that Linux isn't the best Unix, it's more stable than Windows 98! :)
Yeah, it's a shame how much respect Linux gets compared to the actual Unixes. Linux makes Unix available to the masses, in a way the BSDs don't. If I hadn't been running a few Linux boxes for a few years, OpenBSD would have been impossible to pick up.
Besides, NT already has a POSIX layer, it's just incomplete. As we saw with Interix, getting a complete POSIX layer on NT isn't that tough, if they want to go down that route.
I mean, comparing Windows to Linux is silly. Windows is a desktop operating system where stability is traded for features. The comparison of NT to Linux is closer, but still silly. NT aims for a reasonable degree of stability but trades some for features. The software for NT massively beats out the "Linux" software.
The fair comparison of Linux is other Unixes, where Linux doesn't compare all that much. I mean, Redhat is a competitor of MS in the CE market for Kiosks, etc., but not on the desktop. MS really lacks a desktop competitor outside of Apple, which isn't significant unless OS X gets Apple really back in the game.
Server side, the only NT vs. Linux comparison is IIS on NT vs. Apache on Linux, the rest of the software is SO vastly different.
Microsoft: You're ours now.
Corel: Can we still make Linux?
Microsoft: No. Now, we want you to make-
Corel: Linux?
Microsoft: No, coreldraw for-
Corel: Linux?
MIcrosoft: Go away.
----
ADVENTURERS! - ANTIHERO FOR HIRE - CARDMASTER CONFLICT
Since that they owned such a big chunk of Corel, they were probably able got a good look at all the source code to the Linux OS! No wonder they are selling it off. They got what they wanted! Are they ever sneaky!!!
Word game?
Any old farts out there? Remember when compilers, linkers, assemblers were like 1-2 thousand dollars? Everyone had a copy (and I do mean copy :-))
Borland broke the mold with Turbo Pascal...innovative, and only $49.00
I hope that ex-rock star running Corel would take a hint and put out really cheap cd's with a paint program, office suite, linux distro...maybe debian with nautilus and ximian gnome for something like $49.00
Economy of scale is the key here...I seriously doubt many people will pay $1500 for Borlands' Kylix.
I'd really like to see Corel recover. Weaning SOHOs and businesses off MS products, for something like $49 a workstation (w/ 30 days support or some such) would be a wise strategy.
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
Too bad, Corel was one of the first / most noticeable companies to embrace linux, and the fact that they are tanking now can be interpreted many ways, most of them bad, whether you take M$ into account or not.
________
M$ is just so used to buying companies that they didn't know how to sell Corel and ended up selling it at half the price.
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
...because people in other countries who develop for Windows refuse to figure out how to use CVS.
This is so true it's scarey... what's worse, is that most US winblowz folks here in the Seattle/Redmond area are pathetically afraid of CVS as well.
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
...we won't be seeing any of the long-awaited "Corel For X-Box" products?
Gates proclaimed that he would be buying Redhat next..
Rapid Nirvana
[I]f Microsoft sells all of these shares at the proposed price of $2.5625 per share, then Microsoft would only make $61.5 million--a figure that represents half of the $135 million price Microsoft paid for the shares in October, 2000.
Maybe they're willing to take a loss to reduce their taxes?!
sulli
RTFJ.
Anyway, here's my refined theory: Microsoft needs to keep its competitors afloat and will intercede to rescue them, Apple being the most obvious example. Unfortunately, keeping Corel solvent is beyond even Bill Gates' power. When MS realized Corel was doomed no matter what, they decided to bail so they at least couldn't be blamed for being present at the death scene.
Buy the company, tank it, sell the shares off at a loss, make Corel a laughingstock... And sabotage Corel's chances at providing an Office Suite for Windows AND Linux, thereby tying everybody that much closer to MS for office-software-related solutions.
Very, very smart...
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Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
Is Corel no longer involved in the .NET crap? Are they going to back to more intense Linux development? This'd probably be the best move for them since they're kind of orphaned now. Question is: can we trust them? *squints*
Now, I'm no rocket scientist, but it occurs to me that people might quite possibly start snatching up copies of Corel PerfectOffice the moment that Office XP ships. The people who, rightly, dont feel too warm and fuzzy about renting software. Under the previous arrangement, don't think that MS wouldn't make that phone call to Corel about .NET as soon as they saw Office sales/rentals/subscriptions start to slip.
What I think that this boils down to is that MS realized that the Slash And Burn Dep^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H Corporate Acquisition Department realized that if the DoJ was *already* looking into the investment, before .NET even got off the ground, then they might have done too tidy a job of cornering the market.
Before you get too weepy-eyed about _The_Impending_Death_Of_Corel_, please remember that Perfect Office has been the hot potato of the software world for over a decade. Corel, Borland, Novell, WordPerfect Inc., that product has been second-tier for many years now.
And, dont forget that they also supplied what many considered to be the worst ever distribution of Linux. Buggy and insecure.
No, I dont feel bad for Corel. I like WordPerfect, but I never like CorelDraw or any of Corel's homegrown applications.
What it boils down to is that Corel will most likely fall by the wayside, but the last gasp of that dying company will be to sell PerfectOffice to someone with a little more capital. Perhaps Sun, perhaps Compaq.
Either way, PerfectOffice will go on, and I for one like the idea of a Perfect Office unencumbered by .NET far more than the alternative.
COREL IS DEAD! LONG LIVE COREL!
This space for rent.
The question then becomes what technology did MS obtain as a part of the initial investment? They could have also used it as an opportunity to try to steer it down a dead end path ala OS/2.
IMHO, the real reason they probably invested in Corel is to give the appearance that they still have competitors (they did the same thing with Apple) in the shrink wrapped office productivitiy market. But now that this move has raised the attention of the DOJ, they're dumping the stock. This will certainly cause Corel's stock to dive even further. It would be really funny, if that would cause the SEC to look into the situation and have multiple agencies trying to take them to court. Wishful thinking, I know, but it would be fun to watch.
the good ground has been paved over by suicidal maniacs
> Now they can dump it on the market and watch Corel's stock price tank.
Might prove to be a major faux pas, if IBM decides to do what so many people have been suggesting.
--
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Selling all of those Corel shares at a loss is probably hundreds of millions (If not billions.) of dollars cheaper than dealing with another antitrust suit. At least M$ is finally learning how to deal with DOJ investigations- Not insulting the prosecuters, government, american people, ignoring DOJ orders, etc.
Yes, it's my own work :) (well except for the Zero Wing art :P)
/ slashdot_aybabtu.gif
http://members.optushome.com.au/geoffebb/misc/ayb
And when they drain Bungie Studios of all it's worth, it too, will be discarded.
Why does Microsoft sound a lot like a vampire? It drinks till it's full, then tosses the withered husk by the wayside.
(shudder)
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It all makes perfect sense. Why own shares in a competitor to your imminent product? They'd have to divest, and that's what they've done.
Antitrust law discourages companies in the same market from owning stakes in each other, but Microsoft and Corel could previously claim they're not actually in the same market, since their underlying software was different and they were aimed at ostensibly different audiences.
The only explanation for why Microsoft would dump its Corel shares (which have been doing well, lately) is to clear the field for them to bring MSLinux out. It makes perfect sense.
The big question now is whether anyone will buy a Linux distribution from Microsoft.
Read the rest of this comment...
Microsoft Executive Says Linux Threatens Their Industry Stranglehold, Competes With Windows
2/14/01 4:57 PM
Source:Bloomberg News
Redmond, Washington, Feb. 14 (Bloomberg) -- Microsoft Corp.'s Windows
bloatware chief, Jim Allchin, says that freely distributed
software code such as rival Linux could stifle Microsoft's innovative
ways of stealing, extorting, and gouging money from it's customers
and that legislators need to understand the threat.
The result will be the demise of both Bill Gates income and
the incentive to support the Dark-side of the force, he said yesterday,
after the company previewed its latest version of eX-Windows. Microsoft
has told U.S. lawmakers of its concern while discussing protection of
intellectual property rights.
Quote Snapshot
IBM 114.88 -1.90
HWP 33.06 -3.29
MSFT 56.69 -2.13
LNUX 7.53 -0.59
RHAT 6.84 -0.22
Linux is developed in a so-called open-source environment in which the
software code generally isn't owned by any one company. That, as well
as programs such as music-sharing software from Napster Inc., means
the world's largest software maker has to do a better job of bribing
policymakers, he said.
''Open source is an stranglehold destroyer,'' Allchin said.
''I can't imagine something that could be worse than this for our
wallets.''
Microsoft distributes some of its programs without charge to
customers, although it never releases its programming code, except
for experimental research releases of its Research division's IPv6
implementation for NT Foow and Two-Kay, and it retains the ownership
rights to that code. Linux is the most widely known open-source product,
though other programs including the popular Apache system for Web server
computers also are developed the same way.
Corel Inquiry
Allchin made his comments several hours before Microsoft confirmed
that its $135 million investment in software maker Corel Corp. last
October is being reviewed by the U.S. Justice Department. MS/Corel said
last month it willl drop efforts to develop the Linux operating
system, though it will continue to make Linux applications. Corel _said_
it hadn't consulted with Microsoft before making that decision.
Brian Behlendorf, founder of open-source company CollabNet Inc., said
most companies that use the open-source development model do retain
the rights to some of their intellectual property.
''I think Microsoft is trying to paint the open-source community as
being fascist; that all software have has to be free, or none of it
can be,'' said Behlendorf, whose company helps businesses run their
own open-source projects.
Allchin said he's concerned that the open-source business model could
stifle blind ambition and greed in the computer industry.
''I'm an American, I believe in the American Way of beating down and
destroying your competitors at all costs,'' he said. ''I worry
if the government encourages open source, and I don't think we've done
enough education of policy makers to understand the threat.''
Linux Adoption
Some leading computer companies including International Business
Machines Corp. and Hewlett-Packard Co. are selling Linux- based
products and working on open-source projects, noted Jeremy Allison, a
VA Linux Systems Inc. software developer. He's also a leader in a
project develop an open-source file and printer server program.
Microsoft only began significant bribery efforts in the last few
years. The Redmond, Washington-based company also talks to lawmakers
about issues including the need for more visas for people with
computer skills and computer privacy and security, because people
in other countries who develop for Windows refuse to figure out how to
use CVS.
Linux is the fastest-growing operating system program for running
server computers, according to research firm IDC. It accounted for 27
percent of unit shipments of server operating systems in 2000.
Microsoft's Windows was the most popular on that basis, with 41
percent. But who's counting?
Despite Linux's success in some markets, Allchin says he isn't
concerned about sales competition from the product. Microsoft provides
support to change and develop products based on its operating system
software that Linux companies don't, he said. Companies that use Linux
in their products then must pay someone else for support, he said.
''We can build a better product than Linux,'' he said. ''There is
always something enamoring about thinking you can get something for
free.''
That last statement made this CNET editor wonder if he is a hypocrite or
just another foot-pedestal to the leader of the evil-empire, Gates.
I mean, if he thinks open-source is stifling their innovation and incentive,
then why did he say "We can build a better product than Linux"?
And why have they not yet done so? deerg!
P2P Anonymous Distributed Web Search: http://www.yacy.net/
See The Register about it.
--
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
It's originaly from the *bad* translated japanese videogame "Zero Wing" to sega genesis. Look here for a nice flash sequence from the game.
"The best way to impress people is to be very efficient and organised. That shocks people everytime." - h4rm0ny
"A Million Bucks, Mach 7.6, Straight Down"
Heh, heh...
But MS ..., each day one of its' minions goes and does something that just irritates the hell out of me.
I'm going to have to start painting MS in the pictures of royalist France or something. Or maybe Napoleon. They are really starting to irritate me.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Microsoft knows how to sell companies? I had no idea.
Well, they got what they wanted. Corel is "out" of Linux distribution and no longer in competition with Microsoft. No need to hold onto the stock anymore. Now they can dump it on the market and watch Corel's stock price tank.
Sabotage and Dump.
Microsoft: ALL YOUR COREL SHARE ARE BELONG TO US !!
Corel: WHAT YOU SAY !!
Microsoft: Ooh, whoops, I mean you can have them all. My bad.
Corel: YOU HAVE NO CHANCE TO SURVIVE MAKE YOUR TIME.
Microsoft: HA HA HA HA HA HA...
Sweet.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
For the people claiming "Microsoft invested in Corel, destroyed and is leaving the body for the vultures." -could you please elaborate on what they did to accomplish that? Persuade them that there was a meaningful Linux desktop market to target?