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KDE 3.0 Screenshots
Lawrence Teo writes: "The screenshots of the upcoming KDE 3.x are out! More treats for you screenshot-loving people and I-need-my-desktop-to-look-perfect types. :-)" Frankly, they look a lot like ... previous KDE desktops :) That by itself says a lot about how mature KDE has become.
The site seems /.ed .... any mirrors ?
KDE 3 provides a database-independent API for accessing SQL databases. It provides support for ODBC as well as direct support for Oracle, PostgreSQL and MySQL databases (custom drivers may be added as well). I am really looking forward to this feature, as I am a SQL junkie. If I could backend everything to a SQL database I would.
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Come on, everyone knows that a modern desktop needs to have excessive animation. I want a parade of dancing midgets everytime I iconify emacs!
Oh wait, these are just screenshots. Perhaps I just can't see all of the glorious animation? That must be it.
"Tomorrow's forecast: a few sprinkles of genius with a chance of doom!" - Stewie Griffin
Well, there's not much change.
But that was said beforehand, it won't be the big change like going from kde1 to kde2.
It's more an upgrade to Qt 3, which has as result that kde2 and kde3 are binary incompatible.
Maybe they are lucky (or not) that it is in about the same timeframe as going from gcc2 to gcc3. All c++ binaries will be broken with or without qt2/qt3 in most major distro's.
On kernel-cousin I read that a beta version should become available at the end of the month. Might be interesting.
I just hope that kde 3 will be ready to ship in the new distro's for next year, like Redhat 7.3/8.0 and Mandrake 8.2.
Well, don't worry about that. We can get you back before you leave. (Dr. Who)
I think the screenshots are nice. But after more than 15 years, I still want to have TOTAL control over my desktop, including the option of finally getting away from SQUARE WINDOWS. To appeal to a wider audience lets start having the option of having circular, triangular, morphing windows.
www.enthea.org
I really like geoshell and all, but KDE on my windows boxen would be great!
Prevent linux based DDOS's!
http://linux.denialofservice.org/
[...] and the friendly tips from Kandalf.
:)
"Friendly tips", eh?
Beware... the PaperClip also started like this...
Evolution and Gnumeric are great examples, as are KOffice and Konqueror.
I know it's cliche, but I can't wait for Evo 1.0, Gnome 2.0, KDE 3.0, Mozilla 1.0, Abiword 1.0, et al.
Regards,Reid
I like teamwork. It's easier to assign blame that way.
Actually, I understand that one of the most important difference between KDE 2 and KDE 3 is anti-aliasing. Unfortunatly, they only have JPEG screenshots, so it's almost impossible to notice the anti-aliasing because of how JPEG works. JPEG encodes pictures in the frequency (DCT) domain, so it has a normal tendency to slightly blur (low-pass) the image (which is OK in most circumstances), which makes is also roughly what the anti-aliasing does.
However, PNG (or GIF, but if you don't mind the patent issues) would have been a good alternative, as it doesn't have that low-pass effect since it just works by quantizing values (colormap) before a lossless compression (which is the patented part in GIF). Anyone have GIF or PNG screenshots?
Opus: the Swiss army knife of audio codec
I remember way back in the day, I thought KDE was an unstable, showy piece of crap. I think a lot of us did. A lot of us didn't even consider KDE over Gnome on our linux box. And I think it is safe to say, and many will agree, that KDE really has done an outstanding job - and that in a relatively short period of time. The screen shots look beautiful, and I wish continued success to the KDE team.
I think several years ago if I would have placed a bet on which GUI would succeed, I would say Gnome. Now, I wouldn't bet on either - I think both are excelling in their own way. Gnome seems to be the accepted choice that the commercial Unixes are going with, while KDE is doing a fine job of fulfilling the desktop wants and needs, and looking cool at the same time.
Hats off to the KDE team - their contribution is taken for granted every time you login to your pretty KDE desktop. KDE, thank you.
Moon Macrosystems. Sun's biggest competitor.
Keep in mind, there isn't much new screen candy in KDE 3.0; a lot of the changes are in the libraries. The biggest change is the port to Qt 3.0, which provides database-aware widgets, improved Qt Designer, bi-di text support, a new regexp class, among other things.
There are also many new applications being added to KDE.
Liberal (adj.): Free from bigotry; open to progress; tolerant of others.
We'll see how long this box can last...
You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
http://www.uk.kde.org
Enjoy. Actually, it's not much to look at.
Surprise surprise, we've /.ed them...
"It take 9 months to bear a child, no matter how many women you assign to the job."
Frankly, they look a lot like ... previous KDE desktops :) That by itself says a lot about how mature KDE has become.
Windows 95 looks just like Windows 98. Theres nothing really different, aside from supporting USB. Windows sucks.
Heard Tori Amos on the radio this morning. She had a geat quote: Perspective changes whenever you move. Things always look different from another viewpoint.
Some of the linux zealots need to move around a bit. The view never changes unless you're in front.
Yes, it may be that it will look a bit prettier. But the major change in KDE 3.0 will be the port of all the apps to Qt 3
That seems to be the last major change in the libs for a long time. I think they will try to keep a consistent API for a couple years (after 3.0 is released) to let programmers write apps for KDE. I undertand (from previous discussions in the dot ) that they decided to jump to (the apparently much improved) Qt 3 now, spend a few months in the ports and then provide a mature, solid API. I guess they made the right decision.
Many thanks to the KDE folks,
-- Don Inodoro
KDE on CygWin -- there you go! It's only KDE 1.1.2 though. But it beats Windows ;)
"Oppression and harassment is a small price to pay to live in the land of the free." -- Montgomery Burns.
I went to look at the screenshots and was pretty disappointed. All I saw was "HTTP 500 - Internal Server Error."
What the hell kind of interface is that? What do click on to get to the program menu, the "H" or the "T" (and which "T"?)?
"People that quote themselves in their signatures bother me" - athakur999
Shouldn't that be Konquer your desktop? ;)
BTW, anti-aliasing was introduced on KDE 2.
MOD THE CHILD UP!
Great eye candy, but I still have no reason to switch from Gnome. I'ld like to see a poll of how many people have switched from KDE to Gnome and vice versa...
Um, this is my sig.
if anyone is interested kde 2.2.2 (bugfix) should be out soon , it was supposed to be out 11/12 but looks like they didnt meet that deadline.
I SURVIVED THE GREAT SLASHDOT BLACKOUT OF 2002!
the new windows xp user interface has a two styles: blubbly mess in blue, brown or silver or (now get this!) the original windows interface. all these themes are just microsoft's attempt to catch up with the aesthetics of macos x and the x window manages and desktops.
no forced registration and sending product keys to microsoft. with kde, your privacy is respected.
free (as in mp3s) electronic music
I ack this except for that I now consider using KDE on an OpenBSD box (no linux here, too instable). Not personally, I never even liked X and stick with icewm (for the sake of ease and 400kB WM executables). But by usage of KDE I could start to teach my friends real UN*X. Linux first (KDE 1.x times), I hoped for GNOME. But on OpenBSD now, I do not even hear of GNOME, but KDE 2.2.1 has been in the ports system nearly instantly after release. And my friends discovered - and discovered how to make a CD link on the desktop (not that easy under OpenBSD). :)
It's a pity that most free software is Linux-centric (the control planel doesn't do much sensefull except for WM settings), but for my fellow X11 using friends it's a cool tool to learn.
One of them I even started teaching a bit about the console (not the Konsole
My Karma isn't excellent, damn it! (And
I thought /. was the home of hip young folks who use GNOME.
What's with beating the KDE server into the ground? You whippersnappers don't use it anyway.
Would it be that terrible to let us backwards old fogies enjoy one of the few pleasures we have left, oohing and ahing over KDE?
Thank you very much.
Yeah, but Konqy rocks :)
I don't think originality was a design goal.. and when windows came out, Apple sued because it looked like the Mac.. it all comes around.
I had problems getting to kde.org (slashdotted i guess), So heres the google cache:
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:VKh2tq2m4WA:My first slashdot post, and i must say this test box is toooo small.
Trevelyan
I used kde 2 for a while.
Right now I'm using last night's cvs of kde3 called kde 2.9.0.
Not much has changed as far as looks go. Here are some changes i've noticed as i have both cvs and 2.2.1 installed on the same machine:
Not a huge change as kde1 -> kde2 but enough of one that i always choose my kde3 session instead of kde2.
Liberty.
The reload Button (2 green arrows, nice) should be changed, because a german company ("Der grüne Punkt") is using a symbol exactly like that. Who knows, one day Microsoft buys this company only to sue KDE ;)
ciao, Hermi
i have mirrored your mirror here
enjoy
The "kaudio KIO" screenshot shows the CD "All Killer No Filler" by "Sum 41", and has a folder for Ogg Vorbis tracks. Are those tracks actually on the CD, or is that a function of the kaudio plug-in? I imagine that it's the second option (a function of the plug-in), but I figured I'd send out a request for confirmation.
Looking good is nice. Too bad these environments get it backwards and always focus on form over function first. I'd rather have OS/2's wps on linux updated to be pretty. IBM was smart and actually got the SOM and DSOM and OOI stuff nailed down properly early. Now, if we had that environment to build on, we could make it prettier. Oh well. Windowmaker and ROX do a very nice job for me for now.
XFree86 supports the SHAPE extension. Have you never tried the round clock, or XEyes? Or any of the fancy-ass skinnable MP3 players? X has had support for that for many years. It has nothing to do with KDE.
--
CPAN rules. - Guido van Rossum
Why don't real-world objects, like books, come in more interesting shapes and sizes? Books have been around for longer than I can remember, maybe even more than a decade, so they have no excuse for not developing the useless features I clamor for. I once saw a really cool book in the children's library that was cut out in the shape of a teddy bear, and was full of bright, colorful pictures, but that was an exception to the rule. Most books are boring, box-shaped things, and they are full of nothing but little tiny words! What do they expect us to do, READ? If I had the attention span for that...
Uh, what was I talking about?
Why is it that every time there's a new package, OS, or library, we need to have screenshots for it? Don't themable window managers (and applications) mean that you can make your screen look just about any way you want it?
/. doesn't post screenshots for every rev of the Linux kernel.
At least
That's "Mr. Soulless Automaton" to you, Bub.
You may find my site faster than kde.org:s /
http://shakti.tky.hut.fi/slashdot/kde3-screenshot
Maybe they are lucky (or not) that it is in about the same timeframe as going from gcc2 to gcc3. All c++ binaries will be broken with or without qt2/qt3 in most major distro's.
No that's not luck. That was a major reason why the desicion was made to move to Qt3 so quickly. This was heavily discussed about 4 months back and finally decided to timeframe the release with g++ 3.1 (because the minor release of g++ will break BC again).
Don't put it pass the KDE team to coordinate efforts with other projects.
I wish the KDE people published more binaries during the development, nightly or weekly builds or something. Compiling all the stuff takes several days, and it's usually hellishly difficult to get through compilations successfully.
SuSE seems to have published a limited 3.0.0 beta1 binaries, but I haven't found them for RH nor Mandrake. Well, RH takes usually a long time to publish even the release versions.
At one time, I participated in some minor KDE development, but it was somewhat bothersome that I could rarely get even kdelibs compiled easily. It made development a bit difficult sometimes.
KDE is just so damn big, and the libs change just too much all the time.
If beauty is in the eye of the beholder, then the beholder is a MacOsX user ( or designer ;-), and
not a KDE3 enthousiast.
;-)
The first screenshot looks like an old KDE1 screenshots. Colors, icons, window decorations... all ghastly ugly if you ask me.
If you're talking about current user experiences, I'm much more at ease with the MacOsX desktop than with the KDE2 one ( been using MacOsX for a couple of days ). I still prefer the GNOME user experience above any KDE
Just my two cents, feel free to ignore
blaah !
Both Gnome and KDE have done nothing but rip off the Windows interface since their inception. Whether or not this is because "we want Windoze users to feel comfy once they start migrating in droves [sic]" is anybody's guess. Maybe it's simply a lack of creativity? Of course, Windows' only improvement over the Mac was the taskbar (the Finder would be a fine point, but still), and the Mac itself was ripped off the Xerox UIs.
This is not a flame, but mod away. I've some karma to burn. And we're all very open-minded here, right?!!
A cursory glance at the few non-/.ed pics reveals an apparant convergent evolution between KDE and OSX... Anyone else see this?
Mmmmmm... Bold, yet refreshing!
Yea, I was thinking of Der grüne Punkt, too. However, I think the most important reason to remove the icon is that what the company does is garbage recycling. Thus, most people associate the logo with "trash" and "throw away" instead of reload.
Um... I didn't do it!
Actually, it's a recycling/enviro initiative rather than a company. Duales System Deutschland AG has a similar logo also... but that's not the point.
I'm slowly pushing my users towards KDE2, but it kinda hurts that they can't browse the Winblows network under Konqueror. At one point there was a KIOslave that spoke SMB, but it got removed for some reason.
Do you know offhand whether it's back in KDE3?
(And before anyone jumps on me: no, I can't use smbmount (Linux only), and no, I can't use the workarounds from the public KIOslaves repository (Linux only)). But thanks.)
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
Maybe it's just me, but KDE sure looks a lot like Windows.
Have you ever seen Windows? Have you ever used KDE? Comparing KDE to Windows is like comparing kumquaats to mangoes. I mean, sheesh, it's another fruit. Can't they do anything original? Here I am tired of kumquaat tarts and what's my alternative? Mangoes! I want something different. How about dead rats?
Most of the features of windows are copied verbatim (ie. taskbar, "start" button, same keyboard shortcuts).
taskbar: GNOME has a taskbar. IceWM has a taskbar. Even MacOSX has a taskbar. Kicker is different though. You get icons (launchers, menus, special), desktop switcher, tasks, applets, etc. You can make it growable. You can even choose not to run it at all (try that with winblowz).
"start" button: Ever see that funny footprint in GNOME? It's called a root menu. Every usable environment has a root menu. Sometimes this root menu is on the RMB on the root window, and sometimes it's on a panel. If you don't like it on the panel, remove it and remap it to the RMB.
keyboard shortcuts: If you don't like them, change them. Use the CDE shortcuts instead, or create your own. The last thing KDE needs is to create a whole new standard. I've been using these exact same shortcuts since OS/2 Warp, and I have absolutely no desire to learn a new set everytime I try a new windowmanager or desktop.
However, it would be nice to see something a little bit more revolutionary in it's design instead of rehashing the same old crap.
The WIMP interface is "windows, icons, menus, pointers." Okay, here's revolutionary: round windows, replace all text menus with animated images, replace all icons with new and improved keyboard shortcuts. We'll get rid of the mouse altogether and make everyone buy a touch screen.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
Nonetheless, PNG is the future, no doubt. In any case, I think they should have put PNG, as well as JPEG screenshots.
-- Don Inodoro
that there seems to be a sftp kio-slave in KDE3 - that just rocks! I've been wanting that ever since our network was firewalled for all but port 22 (ssh).
--H
KDE is well mirrored. Try changing www.kde.org to www.uk.kde.org or similar, works fine for me.
What about objprelink?
I've heard that on kde 2.2, the khtml and kjs (javascript) can be buggy when compiled with objprelink. They tend to crash more often.
How is that on kde 3.0 (2.90)?
Well, don't worry about that. We can get you back before you leave. (Dr. Who)
didn't show text in a just slightly vertically misaligned manner and let me use Tab and Shift-Tab to move between links and fields, it would do everything that Internet Explorer does, and then some, minus the security exploits.
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
Well... If people actually want non-windows they build a desktop out of random stuff (fvwm+gkrellm+belt+bucci-clock==something that DOESNT look like windows) If they do want windowsie look they use Gnome or KDE. If they want Afterstep they use Gnustep or Afterstep, if they want CDE we send them to a mental asylum, UNIX gives you a choice, cool huh?
I like the fact that there is a solution (KDE) that replicates Windows functionality. It makes it easier for the transition from Windows to Linux. Given, not many people will every use that, but it could ease the tenstion of, say, a windows developer to linux.
However, I don't use KDE and I don't like KDE because of this. I would rather use WindowMaker or Enlightenment or just plain sawfish. We, as the linux community, need a way to ease people to linux for the unwashed Windows masses.... but we aslo need "hacker" frineldy, interesting, fun, alternate interfaces for the Rest Of Us that want to experiement.
I think the cool part of linux is this ability to be both conservative (KDE) and fantastic (E17... once it is out).
So all you people dissin on KDE stop it. It is now what YOU want, but who cares? the whole ponit is CHOICE.
Now, given, it would be nice if choice also meant working TOGETHER instead of bashing each other, as is the norm of KDE and Gnome....
Not true. The KDE libraries and applications work with any window manager.
That by itself says a lot about how mature KDE has become.
Exactly! now they need to concentrate on other stuff - notably on reducing the learning curve for new (i.e. - Windows) users. Right now, you can't *just* deploy a Linux PC to a former Windows user.
I suggest a minimal, 'less is more' approach. It would be nice to have an 'interface' button that would be common to all KDE (or even all open source desktops) that users could use to change the look and feel of things. Former Windows users could use a 'Windows' preset that would bring the learning curve up to par for these people. A standard set of 'beginner' through 'advanced' would also be nice followed, of course, by customizable and downloadable versions. Sorta like skinning the whole GUI.
Now if they could just come up with a standard, easy to use installation utility, then Linux might be viable for the mainstream desktop. Hell - I saw someone who bought a Mac the other day because they just wanted to "surf the web". Now I don't think that this is any worse than buying a Windows based PC, but they could have paid much less if they did and still retained the functionality desired. The bottom line is that I don't like Windows or Mac but I would be hesitant to recommend Linux to this kind of person.
Sigh...
Life is the leading cause of death in America.
I don't know exactly what you mean...
...but I'm glad you were able to get that off your chest.
I have found there are just two ways to go.
It all comes down to livin' fast or dyin' slow. -REK, Jr.
Personally I am glad that Gnome and KDE are "borrowing" tried and true methods. If the people posting on this topic were left to "innovate" an interface we would almost certainly end up with a Windowing system that consisted entirely of round and triangle shaped Windows with pornographic themes. This interface would, of course, be voice enabled, but it would only accept commands in Klingon. Gnome hackers would be working on a patch that would also allow you to use High Elvish.
It would look cool, but it would be counter-intuitive as vi and as straightforward to learn as Emacs. Every time that Slashdot had a new story it would flash a painful succession of colors.
Personally I tend to use minimalist window managers. The eye candy only gets in my way. On the other hand, both KDE and Gnome should be commended for building a component platform that brings Unix desktop development to the next level. That's the truly interesting stuff. The fact that it looks like Windows is immaterial. The really important fact is that it is becoming possible to script together applications from ready built components (like Windows, except without the myriad downsides).
I don't have any problem with KWin in the recent versions of KDE, and I came from using a pure Sawfish (nee Sawmill) desktop. It's not the most configurable desktop in the world, but they're working on it (I'm very glad that they're finally putting back desktop switching when you hit the edge with the mouse in KDE 3, for example). For the most part it does a very good job of just getting out the way and letting you work, which is the ultimate aim, after all.
-- Help Digitise the Public Domain at DP.
I personally don't care if KDE looks like GNOME, OSX, Windows or whatever. The fact is that people can sit down and actually use it. It helps get alternative OS's [FreeBSD & Linux and others] on the desktops of laymen.
It also has one hell of a cool API if you want to write apps for it and now with language bindings for Java, C and Objective C [Perl? I think] its becoming a better toolkit/framework for application development.
If you don't like it cuz it looks like windows:
1) You must really have a chip on your shoulder about windows.
2) You just want something original.
Perhaps in KDE's future an ultra configurable Window Manager can be setup to do what YOU want. If there is enough interest it will happen.
As far as I am concerned I used IceWM and other Win95 looking Window Managers when I first started with linux to help break me in. I can see the need for more or at least different look and feel. WindowMaker is an excellent example but that is a NeXT "ripoff" if you want to call it that.
Personally I loved the 1.X series as the application bar/switcher was seperated from the menus/menu-ing system.
:) ) and application switcher on the bottom (I suppose why I never saw the fuss about the dock in OS X) that would even *switch* between apps on different desktops! Cool.
You could have menues and virtual desktop's buttons on the top (as it should be
Now the "K" bar (or whatever it is called, I forget) is so damn crowded and the move to 2.X or so took the ability to seperate the app switcher bar from the "K" bar... major suckage and I switched to Gnome/sawfish and wanted to go back for that simple functionality.
Did it ever reappear? I'd consider going back to KDE for its visual appeal and added abilities, but the loss of that one function was enough to make me defect.
Oh, and someone asked about the "OS X-ness" being noticed...yes.
I'd venture to call it KDEOSXXP 3.0.
Rounded buttons of Aqua, flat brite menus of XP.
Also, I a not an interface designer, but for some odd reason I want/need/wish for would be to have the max/min button on the left (a la Aqua) and the close button/box on the right of a window (a la windows/KDE).
Maybe this just makes sense to me, dunno.
If it is not on fire, it is a software problem.
- "You can do this or that if you don't like this or that"
- "You can install another window manager"
- "You can write your own drivers"
- "#props to all h4xx0rz"
Famous last words of aspiring desktop environment (and OS) aiming to fight another OS over the desktop of 50 million PCs.
The argument that people and companies will switch to Linux because it's free has not worked, and never will. Two words: out-of-the-box-works-great-with-everything and easy-to-use-for-John-Doe-and-his-mom. Well, maybe twenty words.
Now, if KDE or Gnome would come up with a totally radical and attractive GUI that made it easier to use a computer and isolated everyone from the OS, then we're-a-talking. But no, they're just copying the Windows shell. Yipeee!
Not there yet.
"Maybe it's just me, but KDE sure looks a lot like Windows."
Maybe it's just me but Gnome sure look a lot like Windows.
Yes, KDE (and Gnome, but noboby ever mentions it) share some basic characteristics with Windows. They all use icons (of course, you can get rid of them. I did), they all use taskbar, they all use "start-button", they all use windows. You know, there's only so many ways you can implement a GUI, there are bound to be similarities. unless KDE moved to a radical new direction (3D perhaps), people will always complain that it looks like Windows
To me, that's not a problem. KDE has the best features Windows has to offer. But it also has more feature, more stability, more eye-candy and it's easier to use.
Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
Every now and then I try out the latest Gnome and/or KDE but I always end up back in FVWM because I generally want to customize more stuff out of the window manager than it will permit. My preference is for a minimalist layout with the occasional really fancy addition.
The brick wall that I always encounter is that I want to be able to replace (not add to) all of the root menu windows for all three mouse buttons. Is there anyone out there that has succeeded at this?
The screenshots presented for KDE 3 aren't the most visually stunning in the world, I agree.
e =1 65-1.png
e =4 8-1.png
e =1 41-1.png
e =3 24-1.jpg
= 355) provides support for Blackbox styles.
e =2 03-1.png
If you like OS X, you might like KDE's
Liquid widget theme
http://www.kde-look.org/content/preview.php?fil
http://www.kde-look.org/content/preview.php?fil
Also nice is the QNix widget style
http://www.kde-look.org/content/preview.php?fil
http://www.kde-look.org/content/preview.php?fil
... and kwin is already very themable. You can use any IceWM themes, and kbox (http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content
Very few people seem to be providing themes that mimic Gnome ones: perhaps people actually prefer KDE's icons over Gnome's (I know I do). The path is open for someone to create a Gnome icon theme for KDE, if they want to. There are people working to improve KDE's icons, however, as in the iKons theme:
http://www.kde-look.org/content/preview.php?fil
[pardon the spaces in the links -- ready mangled by Slashdot]
-- Help Digitise the Public Domain at DP.
Does anyone know if KDE will support the Resize and Rotate extension of Xfree86 4.10 or later?
Its another piece of Keith Packard niftiness that (among other things) allows the X server to notify the toor window and window manager when the resolution changes.
This is mainly used to be provide desktops which keep in sync with the display resolution - i.e, so when you change the screen res, you don't have to pan around an oversized desktop.
Anyone know if theres KDE3 support?
The latest versions of Freetype remove a Apple patented method of hinting, which changes the shape of characters to better match the pixels they are displayed on (ensuring that the arms of your `m' character aren't pushed together, for example, despite that at very small resolutions they might render this way).
Most of the recent KDE2 packages are compiled against the newer freetype, whose output is of slightly inferior quality due to the removal of the code for patented hinting method.
I am excited about it though, I've become pretty attached to KDE in the last year, especially Konqueror.
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
Not sure, but probably not.
I beleive, in fact, that in E17, support for KDE/GNOME are gone. This is because E17's aim is to be a "desktop shell".
>The /single/ thing that keeps me from running kde is that cruddy excuse for a WM they /force/ you to use.
:-).
/only/ advantage of GNOME is the
Not true, KDE's hints support come from NETWM, which is used by KDE 2.x and GNOME 1.4. Any NETWM complient window manager works with KDE 2.x and GNOME 1.4. So far, the only NETWM compliant window managers (that I know of) are kwin, sawfish, and blackbox. WindowMaker's next release should also add support.
> They (trolltech) hired the author of
blackbox, which is a good WM, and I hoped some of his wisdom might flow down to the KDE team... but alas, no sign of that yet.
Kwin is a minimal (like Blackbox), but very extensible window manager. I wrote kbox, which lets you use blackbox styles in kwin. I can tell you that in fact, much of the vector gradient code in Blackbox actually orignated in KDE. Also, some of Brad Hughes (author of Blackbox) "wisdom" would naturally flow down to KDE because he wrote the Qt3 style engine
> KDE developers, please
take note: The
fact that you can choose your own window manager.
Again, I say, you can use any NetWM compliant window manager with KDE 2.x. Kwin is to KDE as Sawfish is to GNOME. It's just the default.
Thanks, I wrote it :D
Adding windowblinds support for the next release.
From what I heard about a year ago, the E developers decided to make E17 self-sufficient. That said, E17 developement has /seemed/ to slow down a lot, so I'm not sure what they said a year ago is still pertinant now.
I use kde2 for two reasons -
Firstly: my monitor blew up and my backup can only do 800x600 and windowmaker takes up too much room.
Secondly: I doesn't look exactly like windows or a mac but it has common elements, and even the default theme looks classy, specially with laptop win-dec theme.
When windows people see my machine they immediately ask what it is. Some people do the 'oh your a mac user' thing. Then they look silly.
When I say it is linux they go oh, and you can tell that they are thinking well it doesn't look all that hard to use. It is important at this point to do something like launching konqueror from the desktop bookmarks menu - but doing it slow enough so they can see what happened.
Use it in front of windows people and remember to demonstrate the neat gui things. Remember multiple desktops is something we're used to and probably can't live without - windows people have never even heard of the idea.
'Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson...'
Why does it always have to be about UPS vs. FedEx? Can't we just drop it?
It seems to me that UPS _DID_ drop it, several times, by the looks of the pictures.
Oh, wait...I think that was a joke. Never mind.
BTW, I really like your work on kbox!
main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
> WindowBlinds? Isn't that illegal? I think all their themes say you can't use them without WindowBlinds in their license agreements.
.ini files (rfc 822-like).
:-) but the KDE project itself has to.
Possibly for those themes included with the base package, but I'm not sure since I've never used WindowBlinds or even downloaded their package. However, with third party themes, using that logic is shakey at best. Most of the third party themes don't even have any:
1). kind of license
2). disclaimers
I've encountered a few WindowBlinds themes which say "For use with WindowBlinds 2.x". This isn't much of a legal disclaimer tho.
Anyways, the format of windowblinds themes themselves, is much less complicated than they say in their website (they claim that they "invented" uis1, uis2, uis3, as languages). In fact, they are simply
And I doubt that they would approach anything legally anyways. This doesn't really compete with WindowBlinds. If they wanted to make a closed source WindowBlinds for X11 for pay, I'm sure people wouldn't pay for shit like that.
> Not that we care about such things (
I understand the possible legal concerns, and that's why it's not in the base KDE distributions. Maybe the blackbox portions will eventually be, but probably not in KDE 3.0 (with the freeze and all).
One of the things that I don't like about KDE2 (and what looks to still be a problem in KDE3) is that the Kicker Panel is still not quite extensible enough. I know that you can do all kinds of cool things with it.. but just try moving it around the screen, away from an edge. Try dynamically changing menu items around in the K menu. Things that Windows users have taken for granted for 2 or 3 years are still completely missing. I hope they address these issues soon.
"To make a mistake is only human; to persist in a mistake is idiotic." Cicero
How come I can't find the QT Free Download at http://www.trolltech.com???
Easier to use than windows
I would like to believe you, but I tried macs and have had a hard time learning how the whole thing works. Even Linux was easier to learn than Mac OS.
-highest quality hardware, well integrated hardware and software
Does it have a GeForce3? Do I have a choice of extensive hardware?
Unix based, as stable and reliable as linux
Then why did they move back to Netscape-Enterprise/3.6 SP3 on Solaris?
a high quality windowing system superior to X11
On that I agree.
When is KDE going to have cursors with shadows, Knoquer with thumbnail view and semi-transparent menus that fade in and out.
And, most importantly, be able to cutomize your login icon from the bald head thingie.
At the risk of being flamed to hell for supporting a Microsoft 'innovation', that actually was an innovation and I think it's worth incorporating into KDE/Gnome/whichever. Only as optional behaviour of course - user should still have final say. However, I do think it's worth considering.
Cheers,
Ian
Yes everything you mentioned can be done in the current versions of KDE. Just a little configuring to change the look from the default.
A lot of other people complained.. that's why this functionality was added back.
Use the Z-modem protocol between Information Superhighway routers to compress the plaintext. ~LordOfYourPants
I believe the ABI for the compiler proper doesn't change (on most architechtures), but the ABI for the library *does*. The library was a total rerite, getiing it right at the first attempt was probably too much to hope for.
- "You can do this or that if you don't like this or that"
Indeed you can. You can have it behave however you want. If you like Windows, you can have it behave just like Windows. Can Windows behave like the mac or like Blackbox or Icewm? Can it fuck.
- "You can install another window manager"
Indeed you can. If you don't like one, you can use another. Everyone is happy. With Windows, everybody loses.
- "You can write your own drivers"
Indeed you can. If drivers aren't available, you can write your own. If drivers aren't available for Windows, what do you do?
- "#props to all h4xx0rz"
Sorry, you've lost me there.
Famous last words of aspiring desktop environment (and OS) aiming to fight another OS over the desktop of 50 million PCs.
Famous first first words of aspiring OS aiming to be completely better and more configurable than the shite used by 50e6 PCs.
Two words: out-of-the-box-works-great-with-everything and easy-to-use-for-John-Doe-and-his-mom. Well, maybe twenty words.
That wouldn't include Windows then. Have you ever tried to install Windows? Ever tried to install any hardware? A complete mess if ever there was one.
Now, if KDE or Gnome would come up with a totally radical
Why? Why radical? What radical changes do you want? What don't you like about them? What should they do to improve it? Saying "It's crap, make it radical" is meaningless.
and attractive GUI
KDE and Gnome are as attractive as you want them to be. They are infinitely customisable. You can make them look like whatever you want. With Windows, you're stuck with the manky default mess.
But no, they're just copying the Windows shell. Yipeee!
Like I said, you have to elaborate. What exactly don't you like about them or the Windows shell? Saying "It's shit, they should make it completely different just for the sake of it" is meaningless. You have to elaborate on what you want them to change.
Well?
Well, except for "totally radical", both KDE and GNOME meet all of your requirements.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
KDE was usable and functional long before GNOME was of any use whatsoever. IT's been ahead of the curve the whole time.
GNOME is great... but I find KDE more polished.
You assume I want it to do that, or for that matter, that 50 million Windows users want that. You are sadly mistaken about that. The function of the desktop is to isolate and abstract the OS, not to be "really kewl"
Indeed you can. If you don't like one, you can use another. Everyone is happy. With Windows, everybody loses.
See above.
Indeed you can. If drivers aren't available, you can write your own. If drivers aren't available for Windows, what do you do?
That's a pathetic comeback. No, you show me a piece of consumer PC hardware that has not shipped with Windows drivers in the last 10 years or so.
Sorry, you've lost me there.
Sorry, I thought I was speaking your language. Never mind.
Famous first first words of aspiring OS aiming to be completely better and more configurable than the shite used by 50e6 PCs.
DOA, as it would seem. Give it up.
That wouldn't include Windows then. Have you ever tried to install Windows? Ever tried to install any hardware? A complete mess if ever there was one.
Actually yes, plenty of times. It's really hard to find a stock PC where some version of Windows will not run, and most intelligent people know this, at least from inference. And no, I really haven't had any "hardware messes", since I tend to know what I'm doing. On the other hand, I've had quite a time trying to find hardware that works with Linux (see above, "drivers"), and a distro that actually goes beginning to end without dying with some weird error that requires a trip to console heaven. Yeah, we're ready for primetime right there.
Why? Why radical? What radical changes do you want? What don't you like about them? What should they do to improve it? Saying "It's crap, make it radical" is meaningless.
OK, focus here. The whole point of this was that KDE and Gnome do nothing but copy the MS shell. Got it now?
KDE and Gnome are as attractive as you want them to be. They are infinitely customisable. You can make them look like whatever you want. With Windows, you're stuck with the manky default mess.
Nope, the Windows shell is customizable to hell and back. However the means to do that are not free or particularly common, so people like your clueless self always gravitate towards the standard riposte "ah! but can it do THIS!!!??". It may come as a surprise to you but the "loser millions" who run Windows are not interested in having pretty widgets and transparent regions. They just want to use their goddamn computers to do whatever it is they bought them for in the first place. They don't need to be 1337! or have a kewl desktop that rotates when winked at.
Like I said, you have to elaborate. What exactly don't you like about them or the Windows shell? Saying "It's shit, they should make it completely different just for the sake of it" is meaningless. You have to elaborate on what you want them to change.
See above. And hope my elaboration was enough for you -- let me know if you'd like me to elaborate further.
Well?
Oh. Bite me?
Why would gnomes care about being able to speak elvish??