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iMac LCD Impostors
cannonball_D writes "CNet has an article about the first (?) inevitable PC imitation LCD iMac from Gateway. The design is a step in the right direction, but I still think it has all the tell-tale signs of a cheap knock-off. " It
really looks like it lacks the elegance of the apple design, but I'm all for
the LCD based terminal to be available on x86.
It has a remarkable resemblance to a cow. Black and white curvy patches over a white body. It fits in with Gateway's image, but lacks any of the beauty of the imac.
Didn't Monorail (or something like that) do this first, about 4-5 years ago, anyhoo?
Not that their machine was any good, and wasn't very successful commercially, but it *was* an LCD-screen PC with all the guttiwuts behind the LCD.
Ed R.Zahurak
You know, oblivion keeps looking better every day.
With his emphasis on HID. I've seen the iMac in person, and I instantly wanted one. The Gateway, on the other hand, is ugly.
iMac: Fits nicely into the corner of your contemporary flat.
Profile: Fits nicely into the corner of your cell in the cube farm.
of course, i won't be buying either...so WTF...
I think when they talk about competing with the new Imac, they meant that it is aimed at a similar section of the market, not that it's competing through aesthetic design.
The new G4 iMac looks like a supermodel, all curvy and slim and sleek and chic.
The Gateway looks like a 60-year-old Janitor.
I know who I'd rather "plug in".
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
As much respect as I have for the /. effect I think that CNET might jusst be able to take it;)
I stole this Sig
The 20th Anniversy mac came out in 96 and was an all in one lcd computer. So gateway was not first.
THe picture they show is of the profile 3, not the new profile 4.
I don't see any resemblance. Am I looking at the right picture? Or is gateway cloneing the idea of a LCD and a computer in one box? That's been around since the iMac and cheap LCD's have existed. Overall, if anything, this is a CRT iMac clone.
If anyone bothered to read the article (ie CmdrTaco), you would realise that the picture refers to the Profile 3, Gateways current LCD based computer. The model that Gateway is basing on the new Imac is the Profile 4, which the article does not show.
Not to mention that it looks nothing like the new iMac - the whole system is contained in the same case as the display, which the iMac specifically avoided.
In other words, it looks a bit like an old iMac, except with an LCD panel. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
One problem: where is the *D-ROM drive?
Will I retire or break 10K?
I like to see Apple's beautiful designs and ideas seep into the general PC marketplace, but once again, the copy is only skin deep. Unless I'm looking at the picture wrong, the Gateway pc won't have the most important function of the new Imac design, i.e. the amazing flexibility of the placement and angle of the monitor.
e x p e c t d e l a y . c o m
I keep asking myself why they have these one-unit computers, but still use keyboards and mouses with cords... These packages seem like exactly what wireless keyboards and mouses would be ideal for
Lots of reasons people stash their computers somewhere inaccessible is because of their lack of aesthetic value. But now that Apple has something with aesthetic value, it seems they ruin it by putting cords everywhere. It wouldn't drive up the price too much to put a wireless receiver in the box, would it?
"On topic comment: Hasn't gateway done something like this before? Of am I confused with another OEM outlet?"
Ok as an employee of the cow the Profile series has been around for at least three years and has had the same design as the Profile 3 that is pictured now unless Gateway is going to redesign the system so that it isn't an all in one unit I don't see how this can be considered news or competition with the iMac.
are, unfortunately, untenable in a home with children and cats in it. at least my trusty glass screen will not leak goo all over the place when slashed by the claws of an angry monitor-sitting feline.
Furthermore, where is there room for the cat on a flatscreen anyway? They have to sit in front of the screen, getting static-cling created furballs between you and what you're looking at, or behind the screen, which removes the motivation for the whole computer-cat experience in the first place, pissing off the computer user.
Goat sex free since 2001
Giving the customer what they want.
And if Apple gets pissed and sends in the lawyers, fine.
But know this: I think Gateway will not be cowed!
{mmph..snort..ahahahaa}
.
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
Hell, this makes me want to subscribe to Slashdot just to maintain the current level of editorial integrity. God forbid a shortage of funds leads them down the road of c|net banality.
The picture on the article is of the profile 3 (which they have been selling for a long time now.) The new profile 4 is going to look like an iMac, but they havn't released any pictures of it yet. And the article has very little details.
Gateway actually had a PC with a monitor with a built in PC about 4 years ago (I don't think it was LCD). Anyhow, same time the iMac was coming ou,t or even before.
Take a look at Eurocom. They've had the LP260 All-in-one LCD PC for over a year now. They beat Apple to it, and I think it's a very cool design.
Point is, everyone's 'ripping' everyone elses ideas off in today's industry, to the point that you can't really have an original product without hinting other products.
BTW: What's with the redirection of www.slashdot.org to freakydots? I thought there were going to be no pop-under or basically dirty trick ads.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Anyone remember when SUV's really started taking off? All the auto companies started ripping apart pickup trucks and bolting on a new chassis. The end result was a Frankensteined monstrosity that was easy to tip over, handled poorly, and had the worst traits of cars and trucks. I just took a loot at the new Gateway, and it looks like they took a laptop apart and attached it to a metal fan base. It too has the worst features of a laptop and a desktop PC (difficult/impossible to upgrade, relatively immobile, bad ergonomics, and comparatively high price tag).
Where's the design? Half the people who buy these things are looking for something that goes well with the Art Deco interior of their social convergence area.
Is that you, John Dvorak?
What sound does this Gateway computer make in place of the Mac "bong"? Moo? Hopefully it's a properly digitised "moo" they recorded, otherwise it might end up saying "moof" instead.
In Soviet Russia, Jesus asks: "What Would You Do?"
Why doesn't someone like Dell or Compaq, with their billions of dollars, hire some designers to come in and create some nice looking systems?
There's nothing uglier than a giant case full of empty space. Even their laptops are bigger, thicker, and have less features.
And other than Apple and Sony, does anyone else have integrated FireWire on most/all of their systems? No!
A real man wouldn't feel embarrassed using the iMac or driving a VW.
This is completely ridiculous. I'm not against more industrial-style designs in computers (something besides the beige box, please) but how is this masculine vs. feminine? So the iMac doesn't have to be covered in pink fluffy bunnies to be considered "too girly?" Please. It's a computer. It's asexual. (I've never understood people addressing their company's tech. project as "sexy" unless it's porn.)
I guess this is coming from a woman who doesn't need any more testosterone in her life, as she gets more than her daily dose from fellow CS students alone. (but does not feel insecure in the face of either the iMac or this theoretical industrial-influenced computer design.) By the way, everyone I know who owns a VW is a guy.
Apple introduced the Twentieth Anniversary Macintosh, which was an all-in-one with an LCD, in May 1997. Oh well... I certainly don't read C|Net for the intelligent reporting. Actually, I'm not sure why I ever click an article that's linked there
.sig: file not found
As far as PCs-that-look-like-CRT-iMacs go, there are lots of machines being sold under different labels that're all based on the bare-bones Palladine LCDpc, which I review here. It's a pretty nifty piece of gear, actually, provided you can get a bare-bones one for a decent price and don't mind lacerating yourself when you install hardware in it.
Kinda like MS XP vx. OS X comparison. Apple is way better on the design side, but it's more expensive and will run less apps. Same deal for hw and sw.
Talking about the new iMac: has anyone noticed that the screen module tends to become lose from the arm attachment after some use. All the display models I've been playing with exhibit the problem. Could it be a flaw?
PPA, the girl next door.
-- I feel better now. Thanks for asking.
They are smaller, portable, and more powerful than the slow iMacs. Is there even a question of what is the smartest thing to do?
*bah* Now mod me -#inf all you Mac lovers
(A Mac with dual G5@1.8Ghz would have been competetive though)
This thing has nothing to do with the IMac. Gateway isn't, and wasn't, the first to use the "profile pc" design.
When I entered college in the fall of '97, my roommate has a machine like this from Compaq... it featured a Pentium 166 MMX processor, and a fairly crappy LCD.
I'm not sure that Compaq was the first to develop and sell one of these, but they've been around for a while.
I hate getting told that x has been made to copy y because y is popular, when x was really around for a long, long time before y gained any popularity. It reminds me of fashion trends in junior high...
He said, "You'll be able to tell your grandchildren that you helped assemble the first NT supercomputer," and I cringed.
Forget this stuff. Check out the Vaio PCV-W101. It has TV tuner, DVD, 1280x768 LCD, 2 PCMCIA ports, i.Link, USB and what else.
Japan is filled with those products.
If you're into neat designs, look at the Sony: Sony
To put a witty saying into 120 characters, jst rmv ll th vwls.
Many PC Manufactures had LCD all in one units prior to the iMac. Eurocom, IBM, even the Gateway
exixted prior to the iMac.
What makes the imac special is the arm, and how you can ajust the lcd in any direction you please
plus its ultra cool styleing.
it could be imitated, but imposible to reporduce.
Calling this a knock off is just stupid.
Integrated custom Bose sound system with woofer/power suppply, integrated TV & FM radio system, S-Video input, and of course the little leather pads on the keyboard. Oh, and the high tech metal bracket holding it up that reportedly cost over a hundred bucks each to manufacture. Originially sold for around $10,000 then as low as $2,000. Of course for 10k it arrived a limo and was set up for you by a tech in a tux (kid you not!) A review from when it first came out is on MacWorld
Bet Gateway doesn't offer a tech in a cow suit to set theirs up...
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
If you're talking about LCD terminals, IBM was really the first with their NetVista series. While it may have been lacking in power, it's simply ignorant to call Apple pioneers in that area.
----------What the Chiquita banana?
A friend I lived with for a while had an older Gateway Profile 2 or 3 (where he got it from was unknown).
A few comments, having used it a bit:
1) The LCD quality was not very good. Colors were completely off. Off-axis views were not good at all (worse than most LCDs I have seen)
2) The vertically mounted CD-ROM was a frequent problem. I am not sure if the new Profile 4 is going to have the same problem.
3) Celeron-based. Enough said.
4) The LCD eventually crapped out on it for no reason. It was more expensive to replace than the computer was worth at the time.
I have played with the new iMac in a local Apple store and it seemed like a much better machine.
- (c) 2018 Hank Zimmerman
Uhm, yeah .. looks just like the commercial model I saw in a store about .. say .. 6 months ago. It was being used as a Cashier's station. It was Gateway.
Code softly but carry a big magnet.
IBM has had an all-in-one for ages: Netvista
A quote from Apple's website:
Mac OS X is a super-modern operating system...
See, now the Gateway might be trying to improve it's looks, but does it have a SUPER-MODERN operating system?
A large LCD screen will spoil their fun. My cats would be miffed with me if I took away this source of entertainment from them.
Oh, I am digressing... Better post without +1 :)
gateway also had a knockoff of the original imac, built-in monitor and all. i think it may have been called the solo or something. the thing to remember here, however, is that this is not aimed at the mac user, it's aimed at grandpa who sees that the imac is $1,799, but shucks ma', good old fashioned american company gateway has the "same thing" for a scant $1,699. in a market where total cost is the only thing that matters to ignorant users, can anyone blame gateway?
If I have to sacrifice funtionallity, for aestics, thats where i draw the line, it's only availble with a 15inch flat screen, it's probably hard to upgrade, it uses usb for everything(which isn't a very bad thing, but usb has it's place, and it's not for hard drives, or cdrw drives) Why didn't they included firewire as an extra feture. Oh and for people who want pretty colours, there should be snap on covers for it, to match the carpet and drapes. :)
"The secret of success is to know something nobody else knows." -Aristotle Onassis
All-in-one PCs with LCDs have been around for a while. NEC and Sharp have had em on and off for years. Never got on the cover of Time magazine tho' The NEC one I saw a few years back went a few better than than the new iMac IMO. Other than the cords going out the back (Ethernet, Power) there was no extra clutter on the desktop.... wireless keyboard and mouse. With a wireless ethernet PC card one could get down to a single cable.
The new iMac is all very elegant and all... but suffers the same problems as the old iMacs... once you start hooking up devices to this sleek "digital hub" pretty soon you have a snarling mass of cables all over your desk and a few power strips encrusted with wall-warts. For this reason I prefer a system that goes under the desk with all cables going through a "cable valve" at the back of the desk.
-DU-...etc...
"Don't sweat the technique."
...is a fool who has never entered a computer store.
They were probably too worried about breathing the same air as those dreaded captital Windows users.
I recently used one of these for a week on a temporary assignment at work. The unit I used had a Celeron III @ 1.33 GHz, 256 Mb, 30 gig HD, CD-RW, Floppy, PCMCIA slot, USB and Firewire ports, & ethernet connection. It's basically a laptop design on a stand. It worked well enough, although the color scheme of Windows XP was a little hard to distinguish in bad lighting and took some tweaks. One annoyance is that the fan runs only if the chassis gets hot and starts and stops - which was disconcerting in a bullpen with 25 or so of them. I'd not buy one for the house, but for business, they are handy - pull it out of the box, plug in the mouse/keyboard/net connection, boot, clone a standard load off the server, and you are good to go.
What sorta upgrades you talkin' about? A new pentium spaceheater? Ten feet of tubing and a high-powered pump to circulate liquid helium through the case to keep the shit cool? A new graphix card every year so you can get that extra 1fps playing quake?
Other than shite like that, I can't really think of much that isn't in the imac already or is easy to add (airport card, more ram, hard-drive).
Let Jonathan Ive (its designer) go on about how "we wanted the user to violate the sacred plane of the monitor": Better put is it works. Around that high quality (though only 1024x768) perfectly poised LCD display is a frame that lets you casually reach out, grab it, adjust it, swing it about to share with someone else, nudge when you change position.
Just plain flat out unconsciously interact with the Display without needing to fight it or worry about smudging or getting any thing wrong.
That's AWESOME. You don't know how incredible until you've use it; afterwards everything else just sux. A display that fits folks, not the other way around, something Apple gets and the rest of the industry hasn't (nor likely will Gateway if their past is any guide.)
Sure it may look like a "Sunflower", or more like a desk lamp or a face mirror. On the other hand those two are great examples of good design - they're popular because they work and just like they the new iMac screen is adept at putting light right where you want it, in your eyes, from whatever angle you're comfortable with. And if that kinda brilliant design isn't nerdly or butch enough for ya then go back to chipping with rocks 'cause once again Apple has raised the bar for PC design and once folks get a taste they're not going to accept the 2nd rate layouts, hear that Gateway?
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
"The new wave is not value-added; it's garbage-subtracted" - Esther Dyson, Dec 1994
Apple isn't the first company to come up with a computer with a floating screen and the CPU in the base--IBM (and perhaps others) did that a few years ago (IBM's earlier designs actually were nicer looking than the current X series).
Personally, I find this kind of design gimmicky anyway. With the Graphite iMac, Apple hit a design sweet spot, but the new iMacs don't do it for me--they atttract too much attention. To me, something like a high-end Sony LCD with a computer the size of an Espresso PC (about the footprint of a CD case) looks much nicer. Sorry, Apple.
Besides which, I was in Gateway last summer before the new iMac came out and I saw something amazingly similar to that. Either they were already moving in that direction when all Apple had on market was the crazy-colored ones, or the computer was hidden inside of a cabinet.
-Sara
IBM has had a ripoff like this for a while now. Atleast 2 years ago our school got a lab full of IBMs that look exactly the same as the Gateway version.
Check it out
Well, this is almost news...I've only been using a Gateway Profile at work for the past two years, and it was there before I was. Yes, they've upgraded it a couple of times, and now they're upgrading it again, but it's the same concept, and it was out long before the current iMac. Actually, they're not bad little systems, at least not for our purposes (public web terminal).
"Make it ten--I am only a poor corrupt official."
--Captain Louis Renault (Claude Rains), Casablanca
Why does only Apple manage to produce really good-lookin, stylish PC cases? It shouldn't be very hard to do, should it?
But somehow no Windows-PC maker offers a computer that looks as good as an apple.
Well, time to case-mod that ugly beige box myself, I guess...
an electric guitar is a great stress redirector: it pisses off my neighbours but relaxes me sooo fine...
Folks, read the article. This unit was not an imitation of the iMac. They simply released an updated version of the unit to compete against and use the momentum of the iMac. Gateway's unit is now on its fourth generation.
That being said, you are all right about one thing, it does not have the class and elegance of Apple's design.
A slip of the foot you may soon recover, but a slip of the tongue you may never get over. -Benjamin Franklin
I'm sorry but the iMac looks a little like the TRS-80 Model 3 and 4. Apple must have ripped off the design.
For the last time, there's nothing special about these things. They're just laptops that aren't portable. Maybe ok for setting up an internet kiosk somewhere but I can't imagine anyone actually getting one for personal use.
-3Suns
~~~~
The Revolution will be Slashdotted
OK, you've covered the minor superficial elements. Now explain context sensitive menus, Alt-TAB (which is a stack, rather than IDIOTIC mac method of making it the same list everytime, preventing alt-tabbing between two apps when you have more than one open), Task bars, per-window and per-app menu bars (rather than the inferior Mac single-system-bar), text descriptions rather than icon-only (icons-only SUCK as a user interface element, because they are simply not descriptive enough), universal keyboard traversal (tab/arrows), mouse wheels, anti-aliased fonts (finally in OS X, Windows had it for SEVEN FREAKING YEARS), virtual memory that works right (ditto), memory protection (ditto), on and on and on.
But you know what I hate most about the Mac user interface? Gray outs. For some INSANE reason, the Mac style guide says that controls should be grayed out when they are "not available" by context. That is the most frustrating thing about the Mac, because it gives you no feedback on WHY it's grayed out. Typically in Windows applications, selecting a bad option gives you a popup of why it doesn't work.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
As another responder pointed out, the surprising thing is, what a lousy deal this is - no DVD, less RAM, less HD... I guess that's what the Microsoft tax will do to ya.
Oh, yeah, one other thing - supermodels, curvy? They have the figures of 12-year-old boys. Curvy models all got fired in the mid-70's, when they hired the anorexic pill-freaks.
I believe IBM did this first with the Netvista line. The netvista predated the imac almost a whole year but was very pricey. I guess it's more in who makes it popular.
Gateway, however, did beat Apple to the punch with the first all-in-one computer to feature a flat panel.
We've had these deployed at work for well over a year now.
How exactly is this a knock-off? And how exactly can you justify trying to charge for this sort of "editing"?
--saint
Nice though these systems look, they just seem to have the limitations of a laptop without any of the advantages?
The picture in the c|net article is of the Gateway Profile 3 which has already been out for a while.
:)
The article itself talks about the Gateway Profile 4 which is coming out this summer. THAT is the one that's supposed to be the "first" PC imitation of the new iMac. It's not out, so there's no picture of it yet.
Yeah, I think c|net putting that picture there made it confusing for people. It obviously confused CmdrTaco.
Macintosh humor! MacComedy.com
up through the G3 AIO (giant tooth)
We call them the "Baldheaded Barbies" at work -- the plastic shield with all the holes in it looks like a doll's head that the hair has been brutally ripped out of.
Then again, maybe I should have spent less time as a child tormenting the girl next door by destroying her toys.
*shrug*
--saint
tail in front of your screen...
sprawling over your keyboard and taking a nap on it...
This is why some of us own chia pets, and not actual animals. (That, and allergies.)
I wonder if anyone's made a Chia-tux?
.sig last updated Jan. 14, 2000
People have been selling unibody computers for years, it's just that people weren't buying them because you can't upgrade them. If the monitor goes, you have to toss a perfectly good machine.
So, Macintosh makes one (just like the Mac Classic for anybody who's tuned in), and makes it with a flat display, and Gateway makes a flat display unibody, and now it's a knock-off? They might be picking up on a market that Apple openned, but I seem to remember the PC market trying to do this before the iMacs were out with web-pads, funny that nobody else does!
We've had gateway profiles way before the imac was released. If anything, apple ripped this concept (the concept by the way is just a laptop on a stick) from gateway (who ripped it from someone else I'm sure). Hardly fair to compare gateway's much older design with the imac that hadn't even been conceptualized yet.
oh, btw. before you make any comment about the imac looking elegant, please make sure you've seen one IRL. They are suprisingly large and IMHO just plain hideous.
ôó
Eurocom has had these for years, they're probably not as advanced as the Gateway, but still...
Oh, if you think those are a little pricy, keep in mind that the prices are quoted in Canadian Dollars.
They even have a 17" model. Beat that, iMac!
Disclamer: I like macs. I'd like to see a 17" iMac, but something tells me I'm not going to.
God save our Queen, and Heaven bless The Maple Leaf Forever!
Go into a store. Look at the shelf devoted to Mac software.
Then go look at the shelves devoted to PC software.
As to the more expensive....that's merely an exercise in sophistry from both points of view.
Windows supporters will argue the price based on the cheapest OEM version they can find.
Mac supporters will try to set limits, as you have, to exclude OEM versions from consideration.
All it speaks to is the fact that Apple one way of obtaining their software and Microsoft has multiple ways.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Do you even know what you're talking about? If we use your logic than we can say :
Windows XP offers :
- Windows 3.11 software
- Windows 3.0 software
- Windows 95 software
- Windows 98 software
- Windows 2000 software
- Windows XP software
- Command line applications
- X Window System software(yes it runs here too)
so where is this new software that max os x lets me run that i can't run on windows xp? What will run on mac os x that windows xp doesn't have an equivalent to?
Mmm.....
To carry an analogy to the extreme:
Who remembers the _second_ person to climb mount Everest?
How about the _second_ person to break the sound barrier?
I just saw someone ask this: Why doesn't someone like Dell or Compaq, with their billions of dollars, hire some designers to come in and create some nice looking systems?
This is exactly where we Mac users get to sit back and laugh and say "we told you so." We've taken a pummelling over the years because Macs weren't standard, weren't cutted-edge enough, couldn't lay claim to the buzzword-du-jour, but Apple has always done interface and design like nobody else.
Why don't Dell or Compaq create something "nice looking"? They do create "nice looking" but they don't create "nice using." Unlike Apple, their users just don't (apparently) demand that. Design isn't just how something looks, but how something works and how something fits into the workflow of whatever you're doing. The look is the least of it.
But Compaq and Dell and other box makers will continue to try to do "nice looking" because they don't get the whole human user interface concept the way Apple does. They don't get design on the multiple levels that Apple and most of its users do. It's something that we long-time Mac users have argued ad nauseam about in countless discussion forums (and will no doubt continue to do so) for ages and have been written off as pathetic Apple apologists.
--Rick
--Rick "If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why."
The 20th Anniversary Macintosh also resembles the Compaq Concerto. The Concerto not only had a smaller footprint while providing the same functionality, but also could be used as a laptop and as a pen computer.
While the Concerto is really old now and was too heavy as a pen computer, as a laptop and as a desktop machine, it was an elegant, unpretentious, and practical. I would find an iMac with that form factor much more appealing than what Apple actually came up with.
True, and it is not a very good design at that. Optical drives can not run at full speed, and it is not the greatest layout for heat concerns.
All in all, I agree, It's been done before. Moreover, it been done -better- before. Heck remember this litle flop The 20th Anniversary Mac?
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
(i386) All-in-one systems aren't new. Doesn't anyone remember the Monorail? It was an all-in-one Pentium computer. An old girlfriend of mine had one in college a few years ago.
You can see one here:
http://www.armory.com/~vern/toys/Monorail.htm
some LCD VAIOs I saw in CompUSA a few years back. Very nice sleek case design, with the CPU and such built into the back of the display, kinda like this Gateway unit, only cooler. :)
N4st0r, trixx0r h0bb1tz0rz! Th3y st0l3 0ur pr3c10uzz!
Apple might have help the public image, but this idea isn't new at all - IBM Netvista X series, Gateway, etc. Gateway's isn't a copy of the new imac, NOR is it a copy of the old imac.. at least not anymore than the old imac is of an old Kaypro.
Judging by the responses, you seem to have touched quite a nerve amongst the androgenous (sp) set.
FWIW, I've taken it that you are referring to the New Beetle's.
And for that, I can't fault you. A wonderful, utilitarian auto, like the Golf, has been sacrificed on the alter of style, the New Beetle. Bleh.
The turbo-Beetles are too-little, too-late to save the New Beetle from being 'a chick car'.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
The numbers say it all...
APPLE COMPUTER INC ~AAPL~ 24.66
GATEWAY INC ~GTW~ 6.07
Seriously, is it just me or is Slashdot turning into a big Apple advertisement? Every Mac article rants and raves about how great it is to be a Mac user, and hahaha look at those stupid fuckers on x86. The scary part of this all is that any post that has a counterpoint on Mac immediately gets modded down. It's almost like what the trolls say happens during linux discussions (though I have seen way many more good criticisms and backhanded compliments of linux get modded up rather than down).
Take this discussion for example. It's been pointed out several times that the Gateway Profile has been out for years now (as opposed to the new iMac). Do these posts get +5 informative? No. Does some post telling everyone how great it is to own a new iMac because you can adjust its monitor with a magical pole get modded to +5 insightful? Yes. I think Apple is a good company, but some of the moderators need to pull their heads out of their asses and start modding up comments which are not necessarily criticisms, but simply pointing out the fallacies of the article.
Mod me troll or flamebait. I feel better now anyway.
Actually guys, picture shows Profile 3, which is on market for almost past 2 years (?!), so they had it quite some time before Apple did...
Also, there are bunch of smaller European manufacturers that had all in one lcd design - since people are willing to spend a bit more money there for computers than in USA.
So while Imac is pretty (??), it definetly was not anywhere close to being first integrated lcd system... sorry mac fans
And I've seen more of the Sparticus Macs than the new iMac. How? Simple, watch Serial Experiments Lain.... :D
Connecting Anime and Macs... I truly have no life...
-Archan
Blah to the skins and Blah to the punks and Blah to the world and everybody sucks.
My RA had one my freshman year, so I think it could be said Apple is taking cues from PC design. The iMac of course looks better, but that's very low on the reasons to buy a computer. To each his own... but Gateway stole nothing from Apple on this one.
Sure...Windows had antialiased fonts in 95....provided you bought the Plus pack or downloaded a patch (still have it somewhere on an archive disk). The problem is just that it was a really really bad implementation.
You do not have to take my opinion on it because I have turned it on all the time.
However I install PC's for friends and relatives and you won't believe how many people came back asking me why their fonts now looked "blurry", and if I -please, please- could revert it back to the non-blurry fonts.
Besides, the Antialiasing was only on larger fonts (notably in titlebars or in Word). On smaller fonts it wasn't applied at all. I'm now typing this on my iBook and the small fonts have antialiasing and it does not look blurry at all.
The antialiasing on windows was clearly the way "how not to do it".
Further on your critisisms of the Mac OSX interface:
- Alt-Tab: Never use that on a Mac, so I won't comment
- per-window and per-app menu bars: What is wrong with that? You always find your possible choices on the same place. Not somewhere attached to some window that perhaps even is nearly off screen. I come from a WinTel world (I have a Mac since 4 months) and I don't have problems with the Mac system
- text descriptions rather than icon-only: Where that? I wanna see! I agree it is bad to only use icons...but our friend windows has this nice toolbar thingy that only uses...icons! Here on my mac all applications currently open have icons with text beneath it.
- grayed out: Did you use the flagship of the application Microsoft line recently? They do exactly the same! Open Excel, and close all documents (or add the
/E parameter to your shortcut). Want to print, sorry: that is grayed out for no apparent reason. Okay, the reason is that there is no open document. But it is grayed out without indication why.
Just remember that GUI's shouldn't work all the same on every platform. Each choice has its advantages and disadvantages. On Linux I use WindowMaker, now how is that compared to Mac OS X and Windows 9x/ME/NT/W2K/XP? Completely different! Learn to appreciate the diversity of systems and you won't feel too disoriented on other systems.But that is how I see it....
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
When I read an article about the Imac's design I believe they attempted an all the stuff behind the LCD design. The problem according to the engineers were that hardware sitting on end like what appears gateway has done causes HD and other failures more quickly. Oh well!
We'll start with the fact that Windows XP doesn't run all of that software perfectly. No Microsoft operating system has maintained perfect backwards compatibility, and there are many programs which have fallen through the cracks.
:). Other than that, I use it for Web browsing, work, music, etc. Even Windows XP can't compare with the amount of RPGs available for consoles (Square, Capcom, and Working Designs, mostly). I'd rather have a modern *nix workstation (either OS X or Debian) for my largely non-gaming tasks, and buy the right tool for the job WRT games.
:) .
Also, I don't understand this obsession with "more applications". How many applications do you use on your computer? Do I care that there are more applications available for Windows XP than there are for Debian or Mac OS X? No, because most of those applications are useless, or duplicates.
freshmeat.net lists over 18,000 applications. I work there, and even I'm not crazy enough to say that they're all important. I'm certainly not going to use more than a tiny percentage of them myself, and again, there are plenty of duplicates (different things for different people, but how many different Web server programs do you have running?)
If you've got that all important Windows application, Connectix will happily sell you VirtualPC to run that app on MacOS. But chances are you can find a replacement, either in X11, OS 9, or OS X software.
Another poster mentioned the fact that the majority of PC software available is games. I own a Playstation 2 and a Dreamcast. My (Debian) computer is for old console emulators and xScorch.
As for what OS X has that XP doesn't: there's a reason that print publications still use Macs for DTP, and it's called ColorSync. I know, because I also work for a print publication
WMBC freeform/independent online radio.
Oh, yeah, you can't.
motherboard, CPU, RAM, GFX, audio, HDD, DVD, CDR, TV cap and anything else that might take my fancy.
Time and time again, it has been explained to you thickheads that the iMac's target market DOES NOT DO THESE KIND OF UPGRADES. I'll say it again, to see if it can penetrate your concrete skull: The iMac's target market DOES NOT DO THESE KIND OF UPGRADES. They want to do word processing, e-mail, and web surfing, play some MP3s, and hook up their digital still and video cameras. Grandma does not spend her evenings installing a new video card in an attempt to to coax a few more FPS out of her lame-o, cookie-cutter FPS-of-the-month. The iMac she gets today, as taken out of the box, will do what she wants it to do until she keels over.
If you want upgradability, however, there are plenty of upgradable Macs available. The Power Mac 7600 I'm typing this on, I bought new in 1996. It's 5.5 years old, and still works great. I've added USB, IDE, put in faster drives, and upgraded the processor twice in that time. Macs cost more at purchase time because they remain viable for significantly longer than PCs do, and their resale value shows it. If you don't believe me, look on eBay.
~Philly
This is an article about the Profile 3 - as in 3rd Generation Profile - if anything, the iMac is a clone of the Profile.
The Profile II and III were both LCD screen based. I also got to see several of the in between design versions, as my cousin worked on the design team.
Who is general failure, and why is he reading my hard drive?
While the available LCD screen wasn't bolted on it was probably the earliest transportable with an LCD screen, that could be used as an all-in-one.
This product clearly misses the boat. Apple understands that computers can look good, though I do think they spend too much money on that. Simpler designs are just as effective. This is a design which I like better than apple's offering, but what I really want is a completely rectangular system - No odd-shaped projections on the sides, no monitor sticking out of a gumdrop. There should be some kind of stand you can put it on, or you should be able to hang it on the wall - What an amazing concept. It should use a desktop hard drive, but a laptop CDROM, to minimize depth.
The problem with these computers is that they are too much like computers and not enough like an appliance, even the imac. I want something I can just hang on my wall like a picture, but treat like a computer.
But let's face it, people who buy these all-in-one computers don't need too much upgradability. They will most likely never upgrade anything but the memory. So build me something like a laptop without an internal keyboard. Make it legacy-free, since I don't need to expand it. Give me a 2xType II/1xType III PCMCIA slot, a standard laptop CDROM slot, USB, and IEEE1394. Leave off the speakers; If you want, provide some sort of attachments for them on the sides. I don't mind. But I'm not going to want to use your crappy speakers anyway.
This should run any OS that the market segment for a machine like that will want to run on x86 - linux, windows ME (yecch), windows XP.
802.11 would be a nice feature as well. Twisted-Pair Ethernet, however, is mandatory - Come on, this is the age of broadband internet. There is no excuse for any prebuilt PC (or laptop) to not have ethernet.
These relatively unexpandable computers will never gain widespread popularity until they have very large screens for much lower costs, however. Or they come down significantly in price. And I would like to see a fairly large (18"?) HDTV-aspect display model.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
From what I've read, you can't (without going at your expensive new monitor with a hacksaw) rotate these monitors into portrait orientation. That seems a terrible shame. A lot of the time you want landscape, but on those occasions you want portrait (DTP, playing "1942" in MAME, etc.) it would be a terribly nice thing to be able to do.
mod this up
Jobs actually talked about that. He said the main reason they didn't have wireless keyboards was because they didn't have a good way of powering them yet.
Uh, now I find that rather odd. My wife has a Logitech cordless mouse on her iMac 333, running Mac OS 9.1. Whenever the batteries start to fade, the OS displays a new-style "floating palette" error message that the batteries are too low and should be replaced. What part of this is unintuitive? Or how hard would it be to put Das Blinkenlights on the front of said iMac to show when a keyboard/mouse link can't be established, or possibly combine that with the current warnings? Think about it: with the current crop of wireless IO goodies like mice and keyboards -- there's usually a USB dongle-like transmitter/receiver that's always powered. What I find hard to believe is that if these dongles were shoved into the mainboard design, why can't they keep the same warning messages? And if so, let's revisit the first question: what is unintiutive about a well-written warning message that your keyboard/mouse needs new batteries? Why not use rechargable batteries, and then recharge through a retractable USB cable built into either the keyboard or the machine itself?
Even superheroes once were losers
That Gateway looks like a pile of garbage compared to the IMac. I'm not a Mac user or fan but that is just my two cents.
the system the article was talking about was not an imac it was a gateway fashioned in the imac style *not an imac*, and firewire has been a part of apple's computers for some time now, but it's just now chatching on with the pcs thats why i posted
"The secret of success is to know something nobody else knows." -Aristotle Onassis
Given your comment, I thought you might enjoy this:2 92.html "Joy of Tech"
It's not just for the cats, though. (I don't have any) I sometimes turn on and muck around with my Athlon box when the room gets too cold.
http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/
-- "This world is a comedy to those who think, a tragedy to those who feel."