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Apple Releases New PowerBook and the eMac
Martin Kallisti writes "Apple has released new PowerBook models whose improvements include faster processors (up to 800MHz), better resolution, 1MB of L3 cache and 32MB of video memory. Also, a new computer looking much like the old iMacs, called the eMac, has seen the light of day. It's primarily targeted at the education market, and boasts a 700MHz G4 processor and a flat 17" monitor. " As Troc pointed out in another submission, the eMac will be available only to profs/teachers, students and higher education institutions.
Can someone explain what the point of an "education only" product is? Is that market really so different that it warrants restricting a product specifically to that market? Is this some kind of weird strategy to reduce support staff since most educational institutions have their own IT people? I'm baffled. Someone please explain it to me.
This too shall pass.
Steve is the master of wizardry, he managed to keep this one under his belt untill release. This is major difference in PR since the Imac was released. Shine on you crazy diamond
I'm already tired of explaining to enquiring non-nerds that my nerd-friends are Emacs developers, not iMac's developers.
I guess the problem just got worse.
Which is better, eMacs or vi?
;)
The GNU people are gonna be pissed.
------
Random, useless fact: I type in startx entirely with my left hand.
Well there are still plenty more letters left in the alphabet. Personally, I look forward to jMac, wMac, fMac, and 21 other fine computers.
Then, perhaps they will have to use characters from other alphabets. Wonder how you would pronounce ßMac? "Smack?"
-Evan
Did any graphic designers out there note that the eMac has a different font for its name? Sans-serif instead of the Garamond-derived Apple font. Check out the main Apple home page to see what I mean.
Interesting... I wonder why the change?
-Russ
Me
This may be blaringly obvious to everyone else, but this seems like a good solution to the problems apple has been having getting its hands on LCD parts.
Business News and Resources: www.usasource.net
Well, yes. It would be more cost-effective still to kit out your lab with £399 eMachines. It depends where your money's coming from, I guess!
1280 x 854 is the new resolution, as compared to 1152 x 768 before. One major addition for me as sound engineer is the adition of a Audio Line in, which until now was missing from the Tibooks.
--[Nothing important]--
I am glad I got my TiBook when I did. I dislike the new resolution; it's going to be too small to read easily.
It seems like Apple not only came up with a new PowerBook, but they also came up with their own brand-spanking new PowerLanguage (tm). With words like:
..., mega-wide
screamingly fast
mind-boggling 60 Gb drive
a tremendous wallop
wicked-fast performance
stunning, dazzling, sleek, blows past
What audience are they targetting with language like that?
Ok, I'll have to clean the puddle of saliva off the floor now.....Then run out and get one.
Does it come with a box of black candles and a Rams-head logo?
You are confusing your iBooks with your PowerBooks ;)
The iBook is still around 1200 as before and the PowerBook is still around 2200 as before but the PowerBook is now a bit faster (and has better graphics etc etc....)
Troc's dubious podcast and blog: http://www.trocnet.net
an iMac with a 17" screen...wasn't this the thing that people have been clamouring for, and rumours flying over ever since the original iMac was launched? this is what a hell of a lot of people have been waiting for, and apple decides to release it for the educational market only? i don't get it...it uses a CRT, so there should be a lot fewer problems with supply, and it has to be cheaper to produce than the new flat-panel iMac with moving parts, so you can flood the consumer market with it. steve moves in mysterious ways...
You see Apple has large Education Dept & university/tech/college contracts.
This is for them.
But once supplies get into gear, & the price for that spec starts to decrease, they'll open sales for them to the general public, you watch.
The way it will work is that large contracts with Education Dept & universities/techs/colleges will get 1st go.
Then Education staff will be able to by them from the collage Apple shop or through college book & supply shops.
Then it will be anyone with a student card buying from the collage Apple shop or through college book & supply shops.
Then they'l be sold in public stores but only to Education institions, education staff & people with student cards.
Finally when they have gone through all this routine over about 6 months & if supplies stock up a bit, then they'll be released for general sale.
That's the way its occured here where I am, in the past when Apple has released 'education only' products.
Isn't the Mac a limited enough market already? What's next the Left Handed, Brown Eyed, Blonde Haired, Colorblind, Education only Mac?
You've a good point; Steve Jobs once tried to sell NeXT cubes to education only. They were fantastic machines, but they came with a $10,000 price tag (and that was back when that was some real money). Meanwhile, people were crying out for the NeXTStep development environment in the finance industry, but NeXT only sold to the reluctantly... the rest is history. He seems not to be making the same mistake, at least not to the same magnitude, this time, but Apple have retrenched to pretty much education and publishing only. Will we see them go for the CAD or scientific visualization market? Or heaven forbid, finance? Time will tell.
Can anybody tell me why the hell they didn't stick with VESA timings for that CRT. With only 72 Hz for the highest resolution I could not stand to work on that thing for more than 30 minutes.
--Ulrich
On no accounts allow a Vogon to read poetry at you
I had to make sure it wasn't April 1...
Probably the coolest thing about the eMac is that it's one of the much-discussed "rumor" topics that I never expected to be productized.
Kudos, Apple... I think...
Heck, I don't know what to think.... what's the mob party line on this? L33t or Lame?
There's a feature that's been on almost every Mac, from low end to high end, since Steve Jobs decided to give the company's products their first image makeover. It's strangely absent from the eMac, and now I wonder why it lacks-- --the handles. Oh yeah, scoff if you must, but think about it -- nearly every non-laptop machine in Apple's post-beige era has had handles of some sort, either on the corners (blue G3 and G4 towers) or set in the top (iMacs from the get-go). Even the old iBooks had the plastic carrying handle. And if you think back, remember the very very original 128K Macintosh with the big square mouse? It had a handle too. SE/030? Handle. The eMac represents a departure from the standard design for a number of reasons as stated by other posters, and now there's this too. Yeah, I know, the handle isn't quite as nice as, say, the BSD-compatible core, but it's something I'd grown to rely on. I begin to wonder what's going through the designers' minds.
You cannot truly appreciate Dilbert until you read it in the original Klingon.
wouldn't you love to run emacs on an eMac? It runs OS X; who knows, it might already be part of the default install.
Tarsnap: Online backups for the truly paranoid
A long time ago, our school (the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Lausanne) built its own computer, it was called smacky...
However, 32MB of video ram isn't something that I can shake a stick at. It's the difference between a smooth Castle Wolfenstein experience and a not-quite-adequate Castle Wolfenstein experience.
Sigh.
Bringing irony to the Slash-masses
June/July are big edu/k12 purchasing months. Apple wants to be ready for the market. Smart move and smart timing on this one...
I'm not so sure that's a dumb idea right now. Apple is pimping the flat-screen iMac like mad to the "rest of us", so limiting the market of the new one is a potentially good way to keep demand high for the more expensive, "cooler" iMac while they still quietly sell the old iMac (remember, they kept a model hanging around at the low end) for a while. Also, since Apple almost always has supply constraints on new models for a while, the eMac can stick to it's intended channel for now.
Not coincidentally, it's the season where edu purchasing for the coming year starts to ramp up - so dedicating the supply to education for now is probably a Good Thing.
If I had to prognosticate further, I'd say to expect a flat-panel iMac speed bump around MWNY, followed by the quiet dropping of the old iMac and the eMac moving into general availability at the low end. Because in the longer run, streamlining their low-end models does make sense.
Oh - FYI, Macs are still only available from "authorized dealers", it's just that CompUSA and Apple themselves are on that list now, along with more mail-order folks than before. Don't be surprised if some eMacs leak into the channel early from some of them.
Anyone want to buy my TiBook 667?
(Actually, I still like it just fine - but boy, is that DVI out sweet!)
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
There seems to be a lot of confusion about Apple's pricing schema. It would seem that the you can only get the $999 modemless one if you're shopping for a k-12 instituion, with the other emacs going for $1199 and $1456. If you're a personal shoppeer, going shopping for higher ed, you're only two choices are the combo drive ones, for $1249 and $1516. Very to give a higher discount to the K-12 market...
Mod point free since 2001
Several anti-Apple cronies have voiced similar sentiments here. Do you guys really not get it? It's not hard. Jesus, Apple doesn't always get it right...not even close to "always"... but listening to some of you guys you'd think they were the worst managed company with the worst products in the entire history of commerce. Listen up guys - clue phone ringing for y'all:
Education institutions don't want flat panels in labs with 3rd graders. And they don't want CD-RW drives. And they're short on cash, too.
Everyday consumers, however, do want flat panel displays, do want CD-RW/DVD drives, and usually do have more money to invest than a grade school - after all they're only buying one machine, not thirty.
If you at all understand the above, then Apple's "new" product makes sense.
Plus, as someone pointed out earlier, this neatly takes some demand off of them for the flat panels. If some of the education market is ordering eMacs, then they won't have to come up with quite the number of flat panel displays that they might have had to.
As for the fool who was blathering on thusly..."oh great this will really prepare me for the real world - they're not even available in the real world..." PLEASE. You're kidding me, right? So if Dell decided to sell a particular configuration of a low end box specifically to the education market...a configuration that contained nothing new...you just hadn't ever gotten this particular CPU, monitor, optical drive config in one box before... that it would be a disaster because it's "not available in the real world?"
I think someone needs to cut the little pills in half tomorrow, mkay?
You like your Macintosh better than me, don't you Dave? Dave? Can you hear me Dave?
I must admit to being confused here. While the left side of my brain (rational) understands some of what is going on here, the right side (creative) which Apple usually caters to is highly confused about these two new additions to Apple's line-up -- especially the eMac.
800 MHz TiBook:
What I *DO* get:
1. It is faster. Always good.
2. It is new. That will jump-start sales.
3. It has a new graphics chipset. Good for the graphics pros who use TiBooks.
What I *DO*NOT* get:
1. This is NOT fast enough. 800 MHz is better, but why not 1 GHz? The Wintel portables are up there and Apple is too far behind the P.R. curve on this one. I know, I know: Heat and Supplies. But this is simply not enough of a speed increase.
2. When can we see a new form factor? Removable bays are sorely missed, for one. In my ever-so-humble opinion, the Pismo form was superior in most ways to this one. Course, a form factor change is probably better held off until July.
3. Was the enhanced graphics really for the graphics pros or the hard-core gamers???
eMac:
What I *DO* get:
1. Education needs a cheap base Mac for their labs. This fits with the sub-$1000 price.
2. LCDs are expensive and hard-to-find right now. This alleviates the shortage in the education market.
3. This uses a form already known and accepted in education. Adding this to an existing iMac lab will not make it stand out too much.
4. Apple needs the education market happy in order to maintain its base.
What I *DO*NOT* get:
1. Why the "eMac"? iMac for internet, eMac for education. Will the next thing be the oMac for use by IRS agents ("Owe Mac", get it?)? This seems to be diluting the brand and confusing buyers.
2. Why CRT when LCD is the way to go? Apple is pushing LCD (or some form of flatscreen) as the wave of the future. Why backtrack in this area only? If LCD is NOT the way to go, why not make the eMac available to all. If LCD IS the way to go, why not make it available for corporate and home users?
My Two Cents.
Compare Google's cache of Apple's old Powerbook page and Apple's new Powerbook page. They've raised the prices, along with refreshing their product line.
The URL Google gave me has an IP number rather than xxxx.google.com so it looks a little suspicious. If you're worried I'm sending you off to goat sex, do a Google search for "apple store powerbook" and take the second result.
High-speed Road Trip (18.000KPH)
It's primarily targeted at the education market, and boasts a 700mhz G4 processor and a flat 17" monitor.
I was seriously considering getting one of the new lamp-style iMacs, but I didn't particularly like the smaller screen (or what my cats are likely to do to an LCD panel). This is ideal -- a bigger tube and a G4 processor are the only things really missing from my current 1999 issue iMac.
--saint
I'm one of those people who just can't stand to work on a screen smaller than 1280 or so pix wide. Even 1024x768 feels cramped, and 800x600 is downright claustrophobic.
Now that Apple's packing the new PowerBook with a 15.2" 1280x854 LCD, the ol' 21" CRT on my desk, with it's huge size, godawful heat output and power requirements, isn't looking so appealing anymore.
Oh, it has another nice feature: fully-accelerated DVI output to a second monitor, if ya got it. 1280x854 not enough room when you're doing graphics work? just hook up a second LCD monitor. Sweet.
Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to make them all yourself.
For college students at least, they start at $1249.
Building an equivalent Powermac system is about 1480 dollars (adding monitor to education "entry" model powermac.) These things would be tempting if I had the money to cough up for it. In a few weeks I'll have the cash, but won't be a college student anymore. The Macs are nice, but not worth that amount of cash to home users. The price/benefit ratio for home users is killed by Windows PCs. For professional graphics work, though, they are great workstations...
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Interesting statement... I didn't think that Apple did much at all before Mr. Jobs.....
...we are from the government - we are here to help...
What's the deal with that mini-vga plug on the back of the eMac? Why not just use the standard VGA plug? I wonder how many millions of dollars have been spent by Mac users on adaptors.
Amazing magic tricks
> My PowerBook 667 is now obsolete :(
:)
:)
Why? Did it immediatly stop functioning when the new one was announced? Did you wake up this morning to find that it didn't run any of your software anymore?
I have a Duron 800, which AMD is about to stop manufacturing (meaning it will be sold for another year, probably). It does what I need; I don't consider it "obsolete." My brother has my "old" K6-3 400 w/ 256M RAM...he uses the GIMP with a Wacom tablet, XMMS, xsane, and xawtv (for PS2 and Dreamcast). He doesn't have problem with it.
(yes, a Real Artist who Gets Paid For Art and likes the GIMP.)
Don't despair. Neither you, I, nor my brother run Windows, so computers aren't obsolete nearly as quickly
That said, I've had my thoughts towards an Apple notebook for some time now. However, I've still got a few problems with them:
1. The keyboard does not have a delete key. It has a backspace key labeled "delete." This may seem silly, but it actually bothers me more than the one-button mouse (since OS X was designed with the mouse in mind.) Is the Powerbook keyboard different? That, and "Esc" never seems to be where I expect it...and I use vi
2. I'm used to 1600x1200, so 1024x768 was really cramped. The new Powerbooks solve this, though I'd have to break out my savings bonds to get one.
3. Terminal.app doesn't seem to have a termcap entry I can copy to other *nix systems so that things like PageUP and PageDown will work. They work fine on a local console, but not on remote Debian systems, so hopefully there is a solution to this.
Cost doesn't bother me; I'm well aware that it's worth it to pay a bit more and not go crazy down the road (I used to work for a tiny computer OEM). I'd probably even give on the "delete" issue if Terminal.app was workable, especially since there's Free software on sourceforge that lets me run X apps on OS X.
WMBC freeform/independent online radio.
Ok. You did your estimate. Now let's do one that is more realistic. Let's figure first that probably 30% of those kids go to city schools that can't afford new computers. 50% of them have bought computers in the last two or three years and find them satisfactory for what they are doing.
Now the remaining 20% that MAY buy new computers this year MAY buy Macs but many of the children in those schools aren't going to be making the buying decisions in their family any time soon. Most of them probably already have PC's in their house because their parents use them at work. Some of them will just not like the Mac (yes it happens) and will go with something else.
In the end, maybe 6-7% of those 15M will end up buying Macs which is right inline with Apple's current market share.
terminfo files can be generated, though it's kind of a pain to propogate them (check out my hint on macosxhints.com)
however, the easy way is to just fire up screen
That's a very tough problem. I wonder what you can do about it?
One idea would be to use the included DVI->VGA adaptor.
You had a bit of bad luck there. Apple has not produced anything before or since which has sucked as much as the Powerbook 5300 series. They got severly burned over it from all quarters. Heh! An occasionally, so did customers.
If you're an EduMac shop now this is a good upgrade. If you are a school that wants to run Mac software this is a good upgrade. If you want machines that are easy and cheap to install and move around the 'media center' (aka library) this is a good deal. Ok the soft screen might not be so good I guess they'll get some screeen shields. If you want to have a bunch of Gateways with a dozen cables out the ass end for kids to screw with and a bunch of OFF buttons that are just going to make your life real interesting then this is a bad deal.
From the education store--
$999.00
700MHz
PowerPC G4
128MB SDRAM
40GB Ultra ATA drive
CD-ROM drive
No Modem
$1,199.00
700MHz
PowerPC G4
128MB SDRAM
40GB Ultra ATA drive
Combo drive (DVD/CD-RW)
56K internal modem
$1,456.00
700MHz
PowerPC G4
512MB SDRAM
40GB Ultra ATA drive
Combo drive (DVD/CD-RW)
56K internal modem
eMac Stand
On some monitors, I can't stand lower than 80Hz refresh. Some I can get by at 75Hz.
"So, will using these computers help people when they get out in the real world?"
"No, they're not even available in the real world."
The real world is a scary place!
Do you really want your children using the same sorta computer that your dentist's scretary uses? You know, over on the corner of her desk... that Compaq running a DOS app from within Windows 98. Don't forget that flithy keyboard with the broken spacebar and the dandy 15" monitor running at 60 Hz.
Or how about that Dell on the factory floor, the one that doesn't even resemble a personal computer anymore? Yikes!
Let the schools buy Macs... do it for the children!
If Apple learned from its mistakes, I feel that my bad experience may have been worthwhile. I know I certainly learned from my mistake and will be much more careful before buying a product that the community has not put through its paces a bit.
Amazing magic tricks
Pretty cool, the 17" CRT eMac is the same depth as the 15" CRT iMac (17.1 inches), and only .8 inches taller and wider. That's pretty impressive.
http://www.apple.com/education/emac/specs.html
http://www.apple.com/imac/g3/specs.html
(For some reason in the marketing description they say it's 8mm shorter, not sure why.)
Newsflash:
Schools have been buying up the new Apple eMacs like hotcakes. One principal was heard saying, "We have a big problem with students stealing computers from the schools, but with the new eMacs there's no handle, so the kids won't be able to carry off the computers." This new breakthrough in physical security was characterised by Apple CEO Steve Jobs as "wicked". "We wanted to give the customer what they asked for, and what we gave them was a wicked fast processor and a wicked, non-handled box. That's so wicked", the CEO and co-founder stated in a press conference. The large Apple after-market manufacturers are already working on a handle add-on that could destroy the new security feature before it really catches on.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT
On the laptops 'forward delete' is available, I believe, as 'function-delete. And when running x-on-x, a new xterm window isn't Terminal.app so you might be taken care of there too - I'm not too clear on what you are talking about (as my Unix experience is limited, not through any lack of clarity on your part...).
That's actually very non-Apple nowadays. For years they've been moving to more standard interfaces. PCI, USB, and FireWire, for example.
"Hello, school, little Johnny won't be in today as he broke his foot when his XBox fell off the shelf and SMAsHED through the floor."
One of the cool thinks about the iMac is that it had no fan, so it was very quiet. I assume this one does, because it doesn't say one way or the other.
When I login for the school system I work for, it shows $999 for the base model.
Jason
"FORMAT C:" - Kills bugs dead!
Macs have always been expecially popular in the education market, and Apple has always been targetting it. (Why do you think they picked the name "Apple"?)
Examples: special pricing has always been available for Apple products to schools and students; I'm willing to bet they even pioneered it. Not too long ago they announced Apple Remote Desktop software, and the first paragraph on that page talks about the advantages it offers to a lab/classroom environment. Old articles I'm finding through Google say that, at least recently, Apple's share in the education market is anywhere from 20 to 35 percent, versus 5 to 10 percent in the consumer market.
Partly this is because Apple wants to "convert" people early to their OS, but there's a more straightforward reason: Macs really are easier to use, individually or in groups, right out of the box. And elementary and high-school teachers have better things to do than try to keep up on the software and security issues surrounding computer labs. They just want them to work, and Apple helps them.
I take my PB Ti with me everywhere. I bought it 1.5 years ago to give presentations, since it was lighter and more powerful than anything on the PC side. I've given presentations at a dozen places countrywide, using the VGA output connected to a dozen different LCD projectors. No problems, and lots of envy.
Recently, a colleague bought an iBook, since he routinely also makes presentations and the iBook is even more portable than the Ti. However, he was greatly shocked to discover that the iBook has a non-standard video out. What the hell is that thing supposed to connect to anyway? He now has to remember to check to make sure his dongle is in the case before he goes anywhere.
I was kind of smug with my Ti, thinking "well, you get what you pay for. If you want everything included, get a Ti." Now Apple has gone and put a DVI (?) adapter in place of the VGA. This means everyone who wants to give presentations with a new PB now has to take their dongle along. I don't get it. Honestly. If I were buying a PB again, I would seriously consider a PC laptop now. Why go to the hassle of having to keep up with some stupid dongle when you could buy a computer with VGA built in? I really don't understand what Apple is doing, going back to the bad old "we're not compatible with any standard peripherals" days.
"3D games push the graphics processing unit harder than any other application. And of these 3D games, Quake performance has come to be the benchmark against which all graphics processors are measured. So you'll be pleased to hear that when playing the Quake III Arena version 1.30, in millions of colors, at 1024x768 resolution, the 800MHz PowerBook G4 blazes away at a scorching 68 frames per second.*
* Higher frame rates indicate better performance. Tests conducted by Apple."
hmm... for fun I enjoy launching DDoS attacks against 127.87.42.5
Yes, you can set it to that res, but it will look like crap. There's a fixed number of pixels; to get a lower res you have to use anti-aliasing, pixel doubling, etc.
I wish Apple, ATI, and the rest of the industry would get together and work up a standard for video cards in laptops. I'd like to see the video cards be removable and not part of the mobo. As long as you had the support of the video card manufacturers like ATI and the GeForce folks, you could allow your laptops video setup to be upgraded when needed. Let's say that ATI comes out with the 8500 with 64MB in the mobility configuration. I do a little surgery on my laptop and *boom* I have a better video card that extends the useful life of the expensive laptop. I think Apple would be an ideal candidate to do this. They make a lot of inovative moves that are initially seen as risky. Many of the become "the thing" and everyone eventually does the same. Apple would be a good place to start this idea. Please Apple, do this!
Does anyone know whether a G4 700 MHz noticeably smokes a Duron 700 MHz? I am thinking about applications common to both Windows 9x and Mac OS X. I understand that Mac OS X, even the most recent update, is a rather heavy OS. Even if the RISC G4 at 700 MHz seems like a beast, coupled with Mac OS X may show little.
Otherwise, I am open at the possibility of having a Mac at home. I like the 2 firewire ports, and with that combo CD-RW/DVD drive it could be my Video CD creation setup I was looking for. I don't know yet whether the Dazzle USB device will work on Mac OS X, though.
Sigged!
Got kids? .edu, so I'm smug about being able to get one. Neener-neener.)
An increasing number of technically astute, computer-buying people do -- and we don't want an LCD within reach of toddlers.
I was juuuust about to pick up the phone to order a 600 MHz iMac from MacWh*rehouse (hey, free RAM & free printer) when I saw this story, and now I'm very torn.
One of the reasons to have a computer in the house is to make sure the little ones are comfortable with technology before they head off to school without overwhelming them, and a nice, round iMac is just the thing. However, who wants to have to stick their iMac under the desk and use an aftermarket CRT just because a three year-old snapped the computer's neck?
(And yes, I am at an
Wasn't Jobs just announcing the death of the CRT? You've got to love a guy who stands so firmly by his convictions . . . as long as it's convenient. Hey - wasn't that a naked emperor I just saw walk by?
"The bigger the lie, the more they believe." - Det. Bunk
Selling them with 128 Mb and MacOS X preinstalled is kinda silly. That's just not enough memory to run MacOS X comfortably.
Find free books.
Education institutions don't want flat panels in labs with 3rd graders. And they don't want CD-RW drives. And they're short on cash, too.
A lot of home users don't want LCDs either, but they aren't given a choice. CD-RW drives aren't that expensive, that's why they're becomming standard on many PCs. They're being ommited on the low end eMacs because in many educational environments they don't want the students to have CD-RW drives.
Everyday consumers, however, do want flat panel displays, do want CD-RW/DVD drives, and usually do have more money to invest than a grade school - after all they're only buying one machine, not thirty.
I don't personally know anyone who has chosen to spend the extra money for a LCD display for a desktop computer at home, and most my friends have one or more computers at home. I don't know many families that have extra money laying around that they can spend on a nice pretty LCD display. Why should schools be buying computers when the company selling them is pricing the consumer version above their competition and requiring features on the consumer version that make them more expensive for those consumers.
Plus, as someone pointed out earlier, this neatly takes some demand off of them for the flat panels.
If Apple wants to reduce the demand on them for flat pannels, why don't they sell iMacs with CRTs to consumers, and let the consumers decide? I have a strange feeling it has something to do with higher profit margins on the new iMacs.
If you at all understand the above, then Apple's "new" product makes sense.
What makes sense is that Apple has realized that their marketing decisions (LCDs only) have priced them above the price the educational market is willing to spend. They can't afford to lose this market, so they are reacting by bringing back to old iMac at a price point that is more favorable to that market. Why can't they also make this more affordable computer available to consumers? Apple is marketing thier iMac as a household accessory. It's cool looking, you can do some neat stuff with it like burn a CD full of MP3s. The problem is that it's somewhat weak on bang for the buck. What does apple give users for the price premium you pay for thier computers? What reason do schools have to choose Apple's computers over other computers? Most importantly, what advantages will the students get? If there aren't some real advantages, schools shouldn't buy them.
Having worked at Apple and experienced their productization methodology, this looks like a failed iMac concept that had too much money dumped into it to just toss. Some smart product manager said "Hey lets refocus it!". The thing is though, back in the dark days, almost any R&D product hit the streets for fear of wasting money. That didn't work too well, but I think this repurposing will do fine.
Don't mention that Air-port thing; no one bothered with that.
Yeah, no one but Dell, Microsoft,Compaq,
I think you get the picture...
Gotta love it when the AC trolls post drivel...
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine...
http://www.apple.com/displays/adapter.html
Ever consider setting your fonts one size larger?
The 17" LCD is not from the same production line and doesn't face any supply constraints. Indeed from word on the street these are pretty much "generic" 17" LCDs that can be bought from a number of manufacturers.
Either Apple has learned their lesson on single-source-components or more likely just didn't have the unusual requirements that led to their use in the latest iMacs.
Whatever the case it's clear ("blazingly obvious" in your parlance) that the two cases are not related. Nice try though; pity you didn't think it through first. "LCD parts" is useless as a category when describing different product lines.
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
repeat after me: using computers in schools is not about teaching how to operate one. using computers in schools is not about teaching how to operate one. using computers in schools is not about teaching how to operate one. it's about math, history, language, biology. the OS should get out of the way asap, which is why so many schools prefer macs.
Don't get me wrong!
The PowerPC G4 with Velocity Engine is so fearsomely fast that its performance is measured in gigaflops
My wang is so big it's measured in kilometers: 0.00001564km!
iMac uMac we all Mac for emacs!
(Sorry, couldn't resist)
-- Your local friendly mad scientist-in-training
...was an original Apple Macintosh 13" color display. Cracked the case, stopped working but didn't break the tube.
I've dropped tons of switches and routers since then, but that's expected racking over your head with one hand on the screw gun and other other holding a 36xx chassis.
- Apple just introduced their new iMac a few months ago. It's gotten great reviews everywhere from the New York Times to BusinessWeek to most every major local daily and geek publication.
- Apple isn't going to confuse the market with an iMac that hearkens back to the older design iMac (which they still sell BTW!)
- However the Education market is a big one for Apple and one they've recently been taking a beating in (in spite of a few big wins.) The last education-specific-product they had was the ill-starred eMate (Netwon-based indestructo-laptop) that burnt their customers when it was suddenly dropped.
- Folks have been whining at Apple for a 17" iMac for forever. However Apple made it clear they couldn't do it in the iMac formfactor. Well, this is pretty close but yeah, not the same.
- So here they've solved two problems with one stone, er, Mac. They've satisfied the Edu market with a cheapie low-maint iMac that has scaled up to the 17" world. They've also managed to satisfy that market without detracting from their can't-ship-them-fast-enough new iMac design.
- Will this eMac move into the Consumer market? Probably not as such. Right now the service, support, marketing etc. for this model is nicely contained in the Edu division of Apple and likely to stay there for a while.
- On the other hand businesses have really taken a shine to a iMac line. This is a bit of a quandary for Apple as they'd far prefer their G-series of Macs be the corporate model.
- The eMac might lead the way to a compromise: Here's a cheapie iMac-alike that could be a great client packaged with a MacOS X Server. This could get Apple into the 1,000-cheap-standardized-ruggedized-identical-bui
l t-to-be-centrally-managed desktop model that they've been completely absent from.
- However this would somewhat expand Apple's product line which is something they're leery of after the excesses of the late 80's-90's.
- Right now Apple's product line-up is Consumer with iMac & iBook, Professional with G4 & PowerBook. The Cube was an odd duck to this - a cross between the iMac & G4. However this is almost exactly what the eMac is just cheaper and in a different formfactor.
- So eMac = Cube v.2?
- This is my guess. Not only did Apple listen to what Edus wanted from an iMac but they also learned what didn't work with the Cube. Now they've merged them and I wouldn't be surprised in a rev or two to see Apple start a big public push back onto corporate desktops.
- Just as NT was perceived as a better OS as it came in desktop & server versions (gotta have the same across the enterprise!), it was "friendlier" then Netware and the other competition (can't get nicer then Apple!) and "industrial strength" (MacOS X runs BSD for goodness sakes!) I bet Apple is getting ready for the same assault back.
- A range of hardware, expanding marketshare, an OS that runs the same stuff as "the big boys", easy to develop custom apps for, ease of use, runs MS Office; Apple could regain some serious ground.
All IMHO of course.I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
This is such a modest update that it won't cause a lot of people to upgrade. For under $2000, you already get PC laptops with 1440x1050, and some of the higher end PC laptops have 1600x1200 screens for less money than the PowerBook. I think Apple really needs to come out with a PowerBook that has a 1600x1024 screen and at least a 1GHz processor.
You can get them now, but they are horrifically expensive :( If there is one thing Apple has yet to learn, it's that more reasonably priced equipment will sell better enough to more than outweigh the price drop.
--Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop. - Dr. Walter Gibbs
They don't come pre-installed, but you can get the $666 upgrade at the apple store.
Ergonomica Auctorita Illico!
from the apple site: Incidentally, the body is made of fire-retardant polycarbonate plastic, the same material used to manufacture bulletproof glass. So you can be sure that the eMac is strong enough for student use.
.edu models are for sale to students and teachers, not just for schools. still seems funny.
is that some sort of commentary on schools today? hrmmmmmmm.....
for my next question.... how come the higher model (combo drive) comes with a modem? seems odd to me. then again i guess
I've been worried about Apple's current affinity for those little silver speakers without grilles over them.
Now they're putting them in an "education" PC. I guarantee that within a week of any of those being put in an school, the speakers will be toast.
Ian
This is why computers, or at least all of apple's computers that i've ever seen, have, in the area of the machine with all the ports, a bar- a bar designed to fit a padlock.. It's so you can chain computers to the desk if you need to.. that should be all the security you need.
Making the thing harder to move may make it harder to steal, yes, but it also makes it harder to move. MUCH harder to move. And the education market is probably the one place where it's most likely that machines will be moved around a lot in a *legitimate* fashion.. (as a college student who moves his G4 around *constantly*, i can vouch for this.) especially for an all-in-one design machine. The absense of a handle *will* cause minorly major problems for a lot of people. I don't know what apple was thinking.
It's possible they maybe thought, well, it's a 17-inch machine and it's big, it doesn't need a handle since you can't carry it with one hand.. but still, it makes a HUGE difference if while carrying it you can just kind of shift all the weight to one hand for a moment while you use the other to open a door. This thing is so big and curvy, i don't see how you could keep it in your arms except by cradling it to your chest constantly..
(For the record, this *is* the FIRST non-laptop machine apple has released since the original imac to come without a handle. Even the G4 Cube, which didn't really need one since it was a 10-inch cube, the little thingy at the bottom where you put in the wires had a place where you could wiggle your fingers in and grasp it quite handily..)
Actually, nobody's seen the bottom of the eMac yet-- it's quite unlikely, but maybe there's a handle there, or maybe the place where you install the monitor-swivel thing has handle-like features? Eh, probably not.
hi mblase
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
In '84 the PCs didn't use the 3.5" disks, just Macs, and I think the format was chosen so that Apple could fit the drive controller in one of the ASICs they already had rather then add another for controlling the drive... (it may also have offered more space then trying to use what would over the next five years become the 'PC 3.5" standard').
The now-old TiBook had a 100% standard VGA out. The Apple LCD monitors don't use the same DVI PC's do because Apple wanted one cable to carry power, USB, and also the video signal. The mice and keyboards are USB devices, PC mice work just fine. The keyboards probably do too, except it might be hard to figure out which keys are command and opt (alt and windows maybe?)
Really...want to see the connectors on my Viao? Micro-USB, and the VGA and stuff is only available if you buy the I/O bar (or maybe the VGA is, but the PS/2 ports and serial and printer ports are not).
Apple seems to be using mostly standard connectors, mostly. I think the special ADC one for the monitors is justified. The micro-VGA would only be if there was limited space, like on the iBook (where they include the adaptor for free). No idea why they would do it on the eMac.
Apple is sometimes labled a "boutique" computer maker. I take this to mean, in part at least, that they are largely selling to folks with the money for something better than average. It just sounds to me like you're uncomfortable with this fact. Some people really are. Sometimes they will pronouce that Apple is doomed unless they have a sub-$800 computer on the market by * insert date here *. These folks truly don't understand Apple's market. It's fun to point out to these folks that the cheapest iMacs were never, ever the best sellers. The top priced ones often were.
What makes sense is that Apple has realized that their marketing decisions (LCDs only) have priced them above the price the educational market is willing to spend.
Actually Apple has always been selling CRT iMacs to education. This isn't a new thing. Perhaps you didn't know that. When the G4 iMac came out, education users still had the option to purchase CRT-based ones. So I think they've known all along that for reasons of price, durability, etc, education markets needed this option. It is not, as you suggest, Apple "suddenly realizing" that they have blundered. They know exactly what they are doing.
What does apple give users for the price premium you pay for thier computers?
Do you not own one? Apple is selling a number of things here. Things like ergonomics and style. Things like the unmatched user experience that one can only get when one company makes the hardware and the OS (and the iApps). Things like quality. Top-notch engineering. Innovation. And yes, things like taste. The world seems largely to be made up of two kinds of people - those who get it and those who don't. Those who do, own Macs, those who don't, well...don't.
Don't get me wrong. I got nothing against people who aren't willing to pay for these things. I'm not trying to imply that they are uncouth clods. It's just that they are making a more..utilitarian choice. Fine. I choose otherwise. I think I'm getting my money's worth.
Anyhow, it never ceases to amuse me when I read armchair CEOs who are so gosh darned quick to point out Apple's serious "blunders." I'll be the frist to admit that Apple doesn't always get things right. When I first saw the cube I didn't believe it would sell. When I saw other makers including CD-RW drives and Apple doing DVD-R, I cringed. Mistakes. Blunders. Apple's got 'em, no doubt about it. I'm inclined to forgive them a few though. Apple innovates. They go out on the edge to do something different. I expect it of them. Hell, it's what makes Apple what they are. If they didn't do this they would be Dell. it's inevitable that when you're out front making bold innovations you're gonna get some stuff wrong.
Even with the mistakes and blunders, the real ones and the imagined ones - and I take your complaints to be among the latter category - isn't it funny to see how Apple has been doing? They're one of only two companies in this industry who has made a freaking dime during this recession. Given that fact, I think they know what they are doing in spite of it all.
You like your Macintosh better than me, don't you Dave? Dave? Can you hear me Dave?
My family homeschools, and we'll qualify to buy these.
These are just about perfect to replace what I currently have my kids using.
Two 132mhz 9500's, upgraded with G3 xlr8 cpus, 176m RAM, 2 gig scsi drives. These machines have been real workhorses for going on 10 years now (I acquired them about 6 months ago for free - my company was throwing them out).
About the only thing these 9500's won't do is run OS X reliably, and since I'd like my kids to start learning the unix aspects, these eMac jobbies are just about perfect.
Really, 600mhz or faster, g3 or g4 is pretty much minimal for OS X, so the eMac makes it. However, to run the classic environment, 256 megs RAM minimum is req.d, so I guess I'd have to upgrade these units. But if they also last 10 years, don't you think that's a great deal? I don't see many PC's being very useful, upgrades or not, 10 years down the road.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Nah, I'll pass, 'cuz it's not true. Look at the eMac--there's no handle on top.
Dell Inspiron series with UXGA display. http://www.dell.com/us/en/bsd/learnmore/learnmore_ screen_notebooks_popup_inspn_gen.htm
LIAR!
*stamps "TROLL!" on your forehead*
Feh, learn to use ctrl-[ (I blame my dad for that one -- I still don't use ctrl-I for tab like he does though).
Try GLterm.
"Small user base"? Small is a relative. The largest installed base, and the fastest growing by far- of open source operating systems is Darwin.
I find it funny that slashdots hate microsoft so much but they hate apple even more. So, everyone should kow-tow to microsoft and complain about it?
Or are you going to support a real alternative and stop buying Wintel PCs?
Talk about hypocracy!
Yeah, and you guys panned the ipod too: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23
Maybe I got a particularly bad machine. While it is great that Apple did the right thing in the long run, what they should have done was offer to take the machine back and send me a new machine of my choosing (of approximately equal value). I had a lot of friends who had chosen other macs that did not have the problem.
Amazing magic tricks
I, for one, found these results to be quite interesting, bearing in mind that the website is sort of a Macintosh-oriented one, and the fact that they have results using the dual G4-1000MHz, etc.
http://www.barefeats.com/pentium4.html
Palaces, barricades, threats, meet promises
"I brought you into this world, and I can take you out!"
No, no, no - sorry - I should have qualified this.
:-)
How about the 800mhz new model versus the 667mhz new model?
I'm excited about the big screen, but wondering if I should buy the cheaper $2,500 model instead of the $3,200 one.
I currently have a G4/400 PowerBook and it's wonderful for most things, but I've done some awfully slow FCP 3 rendering and would love a faster version.
And, of course, the big screen. I always need big screen. Mmm.
D
I still don't understand why Apple won't take the plunge and introduce netbooting diskless workstations. Note that they've got *NIX under the hood, a server OS, nice firmware that can netboot, and high-speed networking. I'd like to see apple make up 'packages' for delivery to schools: 2 servers, a gig-ethernet-to-100bt switch, and a pallete of eMacs all set to run off NFS or AFP. They'd have to hire a few geeks in each locality to service the machines (I'm up to it), and have marketing folks swing through the schools. .edu environment.
Hell, with that setup, you could chat with the principal in one room while the 'crew' sets up a room with these things, a live surprise-demo of how easy it is to set up. even make the teachers set up their own machines, it would be a great way to get macs back into the
"Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
I wonder if the new Apple PowerPC's can run the POWERPC version of AIX?
No. It's a fairly different chip. The only Apples that ever ran AIX were the short-lived Apple Network Servers, which shipped with it.
--saint
Looks like the new eMac is filling the void apple made when they pulled the G3 A-I-O, which was also only available to the education market
.
Are you here AGAIN?
7 5083)
You've made this illogical, identical post once before. Made as much sense then, as now. (http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=31361&cid=33
Try writing something new (and correct) for a change.
Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
In all honesty, you should have known this was comming. The last major laptop update was last year, so this was comming from a mile off. Ah well, I can't wait to get one.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
Very simple:
1) G4 Power. A whole lab of computers can be created and sperate computers do not have to be purchased for the art departments.
2) 17 inch screen. Widely requested.
3) Numbers alone. The fastest G3 iMac was 600, the new ones start at 700. Schools are realy no different from consumers except schools are cheaper.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
"There hasn't been one for a bout a decade. Find a PC that is equivilent and you'll discover it costs 2-3 times as much."
It is the other way around actually. are you trolling?
While I agree with you that the numbers aren't that dramatic, I've had many experiences where the mac is faster, or seems faster.
"What you get is a faster machine, better quality hardware (ie: things actually WORK)"
Also not true; you end up paying more for a slower Mac. The hardware looks good, but it is not up to snuff: quirky and bizarre. What do you expect from a company that says it is easier to eject media by jamming a bent paperclip in a pinhole than it is to press a button. A company that tries to make even the most basic part of the user interface (the power button) obtuse and hard to find.
There is no definate performance difference between mac and PC hardware. Infact, in most instances the hardware is the same. Also, incase you haven't noticed, there is a paperclip hole on the PC CD-ROM drives too. They're there for when the drive is stuck or when you don't have power to open the drive. The mac drives open with the push of a buton too. And I don't know about you, but a the round I/O (you do know that that's an I inside and O right?) button on the front of the case and on the keyboard seems to be fairly obvious as being the power button. And if you're not sure, the PICTURE INSTRUCTIONS (whicha 3rd grader could understand) clearly indicate what the power button is.
"the best UI in existance and consequently the best user experience in existance..."
9 out of 10 users reject the experience and the UI.
Where the hell did you get that figure from? OS X is one of the best experiences you can have on a computer.
"and you get all of this for hundreds of dollars less than it would cost you to buy a closed source, 1974 era technology intel-processor based PC."
I prefer 2002-technology based AMD PC's not Intel. But even the Intels cost a lot less than supposedly equivalent Apple hardware.
Better check the facts. I did just a couple of months ago when the new iMac came out. I easily came up with several alternative flat-screen PC alternatives, all a lot more useful, with more options, faster... and for hundreds less than the iMac.
Ah ah ah, you're not being fair. The prices you're comparing are custom built (asuming by you) prices to Apple's prebuilt prices. Go to your favorite manufacturers web site (Dell Gateway, whoever). Then price out a comparable computer. Same specs. Include the monitor. Don't forget to also factor in the software. You need to make sure you're gettign video editing software. Burning software (including iDVD which is still rated as the best DVD burning software out there). Also be sure you get two versions of windows (since all macs ship with OS 9 and X) and don't forget software development software (Developer CD). When priced out from a real manufacturer and not home built, the macs and the PCs actualy cost about the same. And don't forget, macs have gigabit ethernet. And did I mention that the Super drive is actualy a DVD-RW, just apple doesn't officialy support it? And there are very few comparable PC LCD screens. The iMac LCD is incredably sharp and clear.
If you want to see a good rundown, head on over to the apple section of slashdot (slashdot.org/apple) and check out the comparison of the sony computer to the iMac. Go ahead, I dare you, read it and understand what it says. Then you can get back to me with whatever excuse you have for why a highquality PC manufacturer just barely beats out a consumer lever iMac.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
But they do have grilles. I'm not sure why they're not in most of the display pictures on Apple's site, but they're clearly shown in the PDF data sheet of the eMac.
They look adequate for deflecting pencil stabs.
The ADC interface provides power as well as signal. Probably the PowerBook doesn't have a power supply capable of handling an external monitor.
This is _the_ system that Apple needs to break into the enterprise business category. Of course Apple would prefer businesses to buy their PowerMac line, but the up-front cost of this system makes it unattractive to most medium businesses. The entry level system with the 15" LCD is $2,198. When you are buying a small number of workstations, you may be able to justify a couple hundred dollars difference. When buying several hundred, however, price will be king. Furthermore, the PowerMac is simply over-qualified for most business users, as these systems are primarily used for Word/Excel/PowerPoint/Outlook/IE
The eMac would be perfect for medium to large companies. As configured it should handle office productivity apps at a very reasonable cost. Compare the price against similarly configured business systems from Dell and Compaq:
Apple eMac (700mhz G4, 128MB RAM, 40GB HD, 17" monitor, 32MB video card, Apple Protection Plan): $1,118*
Dell Workstation 340 (1.7Ghz P4, 128MB RAM, 40GB HD, 17" monitor, 32MB video card, basic 3yr support): $1,374
Compaq Evo D300s (1.7Ghz P4, 128MB RAM, 40GB HD, 17" monitor, 32MB video card, basic 3yr support): $1,277
* This includes the "education discount". Even if you add on $100, you still have a competetive system.
Let's hope someone at Apple can "Think Different" enough to realize the huge untapped market the eMac could mean to that company.
I work for a K-12 school, I wonder if pricing is cheaper for us vs higher ed?
Jason
"FORMAT C:" - Kills bugs dead!
Furthermore: How many of those people working at PC workstations in offices at this moment grew up using Windows in school? Almost none; there was no windows, or PC's for that matter. They had no trouble adjusting. Soudns like some people will think of anything to keep a good product down. I like Macs because of exactly what another poster said: they keep the OS out of the way. The reason they are typified as "easier" is because the MacOS doesn't get in the way of your work. It works with you, making it SEEM easier. What could be wrong with that?
***
An iMac with a 17" screen has been talked about for a long time. It was the obvious successor to the original iMac, and what everyone assumed Apple would do next.
Then the new, flat screen iMac came out. It upped the ante, and upped the price point. It's possible the eMac was in the works for a long time, but the new iMac leapfrogged it. Naturally, Apple would want to milk the iMac for awhile before letting the eMac out- the eMac might have eaten into iMac sales.
Whatever happened, there's definately a market for both. It's unfortunate the eMac is edu-only, at least for now. There are a lot of starving artist Mac users who need a CRT, but can't afford a new G4 and monitor. Plus, the eMac is the perfect office appliance- as someone else said, "e" should mean "enterprise."
Personally, I'd love to have one of these, with a DVD/burner combo drive, and a bunch of RAM. I really like the all-in-one idea- everything fits into the footprint of the monitor. I'm sick of having to build a shrine for the computer and its peripherals.
It's perfect. The old iMac's screen was too small for X at 1024x768, which is about the minimum you'd want to use. I'm dying to give this one a try...
Anyone want to buy my TiBook 667?
(Actually, I still like it just fine - but boy, is that DVI out sweet!)
I was almost going to say the same thing! You see, I placed an order last week for one of the new TiBooks, and was pretty depressed to see the kickass new specs and features on the new models that were released/announced today. So, with a heavy heart, trying to count my blessings, images of all the "it's old when you buy it" advertisements/jokes running through my brain, I went to the Apple on-line store to check the status of my order, and whaddayaknow, Christmas came early! They were kind enough to automatically cancel my old order and replace it with the new machine, all at the same price!
*sniff* Apple? I love you man! *sniff*
The only thing that REALLY sucks is the 10 days you have to wait to get the thing in your hands!
$0.02 (CDN)
repeat after me: using computers in schools is not about teaching how to operate one. using computers in schools is not about teaching how to operate one. using computers in schools is not about teaching how to operate one. it's about math, history, language, biology. the OS should get out of the way asap, which is why so many schools prefer macs.
And here I thought it was because all the profs that used them were too, ahh, absent minded, to figure out how to use and maintain Windows!
I work in a genetics lab, and that seems to be the #1 reason why everyone uses Macs... they can't be bothered to figure out how to use and/or maintain Windows.
$0.02 (CDN)
Say, that's a pretty good trick, keeping those machines around for 10 years. Considering they were just released seven years ago and all.
Buy hey, nice try propogating the myth that Apple hardware lasts longer than Wintel.
The iBook, which is hardware they are selling RIGHT NOW can't even run OS X properly. Where do you think that computer will be in 5 years?
If the G4 is twice as powerful per mhz, then why is OS X still so god damn slow?
No. It's a fairly different chip.
The chip isn't the problem, actually. The PowerPC chip line has never broken binary compatibility, and IBM has shipped numerous powerpc-based AIX servers. (I'm not sure if you can run PowerPC executables on POWER3/POWER4 chipsets, but I suspect you can do that too.)
The problem is, well, everything else: the memory controller, disk controller, motherboard support chipsets are all vastly different on a modern PowerMac than on any of IBM's current kit. AIX would never boot.
Several people have noted that AIX did run on Apple's short lived Network Server products (the only OS that ever did run on them). Also, several rumors sites back in 98 or so claimed that it was possible to boot MacOS 8.0 on some of IBM's lower-end (PReP-based) PowerPC servers, but I never saw any real confirmation of that.
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
(the only OS that ever did run on them)
Well, the only OS that ran on them from the factory. I'm fairly sure applefritter.com (or is it applefritters? The one with the case mods, anyhow) is running on Linux on an ANS. There's details up there, if I recall correctly.
--saint
That's fine if you don't mind going back to a 9 inch monitor. The "nosecone" is the most efficient way to cover up the neck of the big CRT. Otherwise you'd have a "Color Classic form factor" that takes up a two-foot square on your desktop.
--
"Open source is good." - Steve Jobs
"Open source is evil." - Microsoft
DVI is a standard. It works on PC's.l ?i=1577
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.htm
VGA is a technology that's almost 15 years old. Shouldn't a company dedicated to high-end graphical design want to push the envelope here a little, even if it means using a little teeny (free) dongle to adapt back to VGA?
This argument is almost as asine as suggesting that one shouldn't have to put up with thos stupid AC adapters, why can't they be built into the case?
-Stu