Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Opts-In Hotmail Users
medeii writes "East Side Journal reports that without telling anyone, Microsoft has suddenly changed the privacy preferences for all Hotmail users. They're now sharing your name and other personal information with third parties, even if you said you didn't want that when you signed up. (If you're a user, login, go to Options > Personal Profile, and un-check the boxes at the bottom of that page.)" The same reporter has written a follow-up article today.
I'll do you one better.
Mozilla users can't access Options->Personal Profile to opt out.
--------
Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
And this is surprising, how?
I mean, come on, this is Micro$oft we are talking about here... marketing, marketing, marketing!
Besides, Yahoo led the way, did they not? I would not be surprised to find out that Microsoft watched that whole Yahoo business very closely, and saw the complete lack of any outcry as a "green light" to go forward with this.
Don't throw your computer out the window, throw the Windows out of your computer!
I don't care how good MS's software gets;
:) ) but fact is;
they can spend all of the money that they want making their software better and better (hey, Win2K does indeed rock. Heh.
keep pissing people off and they will lose customers faster then 'software security audits' up to hell will gain them customers.
(oh yah, and not making each OS more and more bleeping 'beautified' would be nice as well, I swear, if I wanted a pretty-boy interface I would've bought a mac!)
::hopes somebody hurries up and forces McNeel software to port Rhino3d to other x86 platforms. Is willing to provide crowbar to volenteer 'encourages' if necessary::
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
Considering the amount of spam I get at my Hotmail accounts, I'm surprised that they haven't been doing this all along.
I have been pwned because my
They have free email and no advertising appending. =)
Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam
Interested in AI? MACR
What? Microsoft owns them? Their chairman is the richest man in the world? Well then, I guess there isn't much of an excuse to defraud customers, unless of course that is the way you become a hugely successful company...
yes i run a goth/punk/emo porn site.
So now you don't even have to tell every company and their brothers company that you do business with that you want your privacy, but you have to do it monthly???
Shouldn't privacy be a default thing to respect? Why should I have to constantly defend it?
Can I charge for infringment of my privacy? (like charging for spam?)
"To request your privacy options, tell us your life history. We want to make sure it's you, before we consider granting you temporary privacy."
If you do not allow us to use up bandwidth sending you stuff you do not want then you should pay us for lost revenues.
ok maybe they would, but you'd probably only getty pretty spam from them.
yes i run a goth/punk/emo porn site.
I'd be a whole lot richer if my employer didn't share my salary data with the IRS!
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
I went to disable that option and found out my account had been disabled since I didn't log in in 30 days. I click the "reactivate link" thinking I should reactivate and then uncheck that option, but upon reactivating I had to accept the terms of service again. You think you've seen some long ones before? Basically they're saying by accepting one, I'm accepting them all. Is it legal to agree to one document that links to terms in another document?
The following is quoted from their TOS:
The MSN Web Sites are offered to you conditioned on your acceptance without modification of the terms, conditions, and notices contained herein. Your use of the MSN Web Sites constitutes your agreement to all such terms, conditions, and notices. Your use of a particular MSN Web Site included within the MSN Web Sites may also be subject to additional terms outlined elsewhere in this agreement (the "Additional Terms"). To go directly to any of the Additional Terms, click on the link below:
Carpoint
GamingZone
MSN Health
MSN Money
HomeAdvisor
MSN Hotmail
Encarta Online
MSN Mobile
MSN Music
MSN Shopping (eShop)
MSNBC
Auctions
MSN Photos
Additionally, the MSN Web Sites may themselves contain additional terms, codes of conduct or guidelines that govern use of those sites, including without limitation, particular features or offers (for example, sweepstakes or chat areas).
No, this is why you create fake accounts and/or give false information. Never assume/believe that a company (especially MicroSoft) will act in good faith and keep the public's interests at heart - its not profitable.
Cruising the internet on my TI-99/4A @ a whopping 300 baud!
So... as near as I can tell, Hotmail can be accessed fine using Mozilla. At least, I haven't had problems before. And now, when I try to get to the Personal Profile page, I get this:
.NET Passport no longer supports the Web browser version you are using. Please upgrade to a current Web browser, such as Microsoft Internet Explorer version 4.0 or later, or Netscape Navigator version 4.08 or later.
Browser Not Supported
Microsoft®
-- dR.fuZZo
This is probably the 100th time there's been mention of trouble with the free webmail systems like Yahoo and Hotmail that people have had.
It really is worth the money to own a domain and get an email address that no one can fsck with.
Benefits:
Not based on your ISP
No privacy issues
Multiple email accounts for different purposes
Can utilize forwarding to webmail
nuclear iraq bioweapon encryption cocaine korea terrorist
As with most issues of this nature..
If the story hits big, and big media starts questioning the practice, MS will claim that it was a programing error, it was changed but they actually have no plans to really share that data, or it was strictly an "accident" in preparing for some upcoming vapor feature they planned on adding or testing. Sorry..
If it doesnt hit big the plan will stay put and 99.9% of the users will never know.
Another reason I always use completely bogus information for these registration things.
Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
I remember reading the opt-out email from Yahoo. I don't remember the one from HotMail. In fact, the last email I got from them said
"As a Hotmail member, you have received this e-mail to inform you of new services. Our policy has always been to send e-mail messages only to announce such information, and we'll continue to honor this policy. Thank you for being a Hotmail member."
-no broken link
You fail to see the genius of this plan.
For months they have been trying to get people to sign up with their Premium Email package which expands the mailbox to 10Mb and lasts forever (or something like that). People have not been signing up. It's simply too easy to create a brand new address when one fills up, so Microsoft then has to deal with 2 accounts (and so on and so on and so on) for each customer who has used up their allotted space.
Enter spam. If Microsoft can make it intolerable for ordinary users (non-Premier club members) to use Hotmail because the speed in which the account fills with spam is simply too fast, then they will push away those users who are not interested in paying for the service. Or they will attract the payers by making it intolerable to use the service otherwise.
Bottom line: They reduce the total traffic on their site by sloughing off the leeches (including yours truly), and increase revenue at the same time.
The idea is brilliant.
I have been pwned because my
Same diff, Microsoft is sending your email address places you probably don't want it going, but users should be aware that this is probably pervasive in any Passport service they use, such as MSN messenger (may want to go and check the options on it if you use it).
Kinda reminds me of a MS developer mailing list I accidently got subscribed to. I tried to unsubscribe, but to do that I needed a passport profile. So in order to stop getting one anoying mailing list I would have had to give away my info which would be freely distributed among all the marketing companies sleeping with Microsoft.
The future isn't what it used to be.
You know what, if google had web mail I'd almost pay to use it over something like hotmail. Google stands out in my opinion, not just becaue they have quality service, but they also have respectable business ethics.
Notice that I said "respectable."
Without MS constantly figuring out ways to make people pissed at them, GNU user base might not be growing so fast.
I know stuff like this only solidifies a conviction to non-MS computer base...someday it'll be hard as diamonds.
Phew...looks to me like yet another Microsoft-Slashdot contract ("conspiracy") to bring loads of traffic to Hotmail site...
.NET Passport and required for registration at many Web sites, includes:
c essibility
P.S. The options with "Share my other registration information" has this text:
"This information, which is stored in your Microsoft®
Birth Date
Country/Region
State/Territory
Gender
Ac
Time Zone
Occupation"
This means that whatever fake information I put in Hotmail would be used for all other sites? No Way!
ooops sorry...that was the " MSN® Hotmail® Tip of the Month" in one particular email (from msn)
full text:
MSN® Hotmail® Tip of the Month
Be aggressive against spam
At Hotmail, we know spam is a chronic problem, and we are doing everything we can to help you keep spam out of your Inbox. That's why we developed the Junk Mail Filter. But there are other things you can do to decrease the amount of spam you receive.
Never respond to junk mail or follow an "unsubscribe" link, since this will only confirm that the spammers have a live address. Also, do not use your e-mail address when participating in chat rooms. Finally, you should carefully review a Web site's privacy policy when performing online activities such as shopping and banking, to ensure that your e-mail address will not be shared with a third party. Keep in mind that MSN does not sell, rent or lease its customer lists to third parties.
Still, I guess this was yesterday...
That works great if it is just an email service. However, if you are using a say, telecom service (you get a T1 or DSL to your house) you have to give your phone number and address, or they will install it at the wrong place. 8') Next, Verizon posts your personal HOME address and telephone number in the WHOIS database for any spambot to pick out (rather than use the P.O. Box you gave for your billing address).
Sometimes you have to give out your address. Or maybe you called a toll free number - guess what, your phone number is in the database.
In the case of a monopoly like Verizon, you're stuck. But there are other cases where you have a choice.
We all knowYahoo did this a little while back, and AOL did it before that. And how do we know?, well they told us. The fact that Hotmail did it without notification is typical of their business style. I only wonder how many other services (Earthlink, AT&T, etc.) either don't offer an opt out option or reset your preferences unknown to you anyways. As always you get what you pay for.
http://www.kubuntu.org/
It's a safe bet that no matter what the vendor says, they will pimp out whatever they can for money. They will lie and cheat and then lie and cheat about that.
Either don't give them any true or useful information or don't give them any information at all. Leave footprints like misspelling your own name in a very unique way. Track it and complain complain complain when you find them out. cc a copy of your complaint to your state attorney general's office.
Did everyone just log onto their Hotmail accounts at once or what? All of a sudden I'm getting the not-so-unfamiliar "Hotmail Account Temporarily Unavailable" screen. YOU SLASHDOTTED HOTMAIL! YOU BASTARDS!
-- dR.fuZZo
I just checked my hotmail options and those three boxes were NOT checked. So I have no idea what the hell the article writer is talking about or what's different between his case and mine.
Of course, this post will probably get buried under the avalanche of people who want to believe the article.
Mmmm.. Donuts
You can speed registration and get personalized services at participating sites by sharing your .NET Passport information with them when you sign in.
.NET Passport information Microsoft can share with other companies' .NET Passport sites at sign-in:
.NET Passport, privacy, and security.
Choose how much of your
_ Share my e-mail address.
_ Share my first and last names.
_ Share my other registration information.
Tell me more about
FWIW, when I checked my user profile, all three of the options were unchecked.
Mmmm.. Donuts
"Microsoft® .NET Passport was temporarily unable to complete your request. Please try again "
Well i guess their servers are too busy selling my information right now.
I should try later.
I just stopped checking my old Hotmail address regularly within the past month, then at all this week, because I was sick of all the spam I had to keep deleting (a quick login showed 87 in the last 4 days, and that's without having given out this address to anyone in years) and because my school address was in general much more reliable. I also got mine before M$ bought the company, and I distinctly remember them promising when they bought it that they would always keep Hotmail a free service.
Now, I'm not saying Hotmail isn't free anymore, because I've never paid a cent for it. But here's what they've done to allow that:
Given these steps, which have occurred at fairly regular intervals, does it surprise you at all that they've progressed on to this? I can only imagine that next they'll replace those check boxes with bulleted lists, so that you can't opt out unless you become a paid subscriber... My advice to you is to change your name and address info immediately to something fake, clear out your Hotmail address book (because they're probably selling that too), and then to switch to a more reliable email provider. There are plenty of services that actively guard you against spam, so it shouldn't be too hard to find one you like.
- Account sizes started at 10 MB. Hotmail recently reduced them to 2 MB.
- Hotmail constantly sends me reminders that I can get my 10MB of storage back by paying them a monthly fee. Great...
- Those same reminders generally come as part of a message that says, in effect, "Your account is almost full. We'll send you another message to add to the total so you fill up even faster. By doing this, we can clearly demonstrate why you need a larger account. Pay us now.
- I can get 500 messages from a single address with an identical subject and message body. Fun, now my account fills up even faster. (I sent suggestions on how to prevent this. The information was supposedly passed along to the dev team. Who knows...)
- I can sign up for a new account and within hours, I'm receiving spam. Dang, now that's some added value, not to mention adding to the need for more storage.
- Obvious bulk mail goes into my junk folder. Nice, except that my junk folder contributes to my total space used and isn't purged automagically if more space is needed. There isn't even an option to do this. (Sigh, I need more space again. Maybe they'll send me another advert so I can sign up..)
- And more and more of my favorite things about hotmail. Isn't it just nifty?
arg!!!!Why don't you just spend US$12 a year (or whatever) and buy a Spamcop account. POP3, Webmail, forwarding, anti-virus and anti-spam. I still use my account there even though I've dropped my spam-magnet of an account at Yahoo and started masking my address using Sneakemail.
...now that's innovation...
...Microsoft® Innovation (TM)
OK, I've got four HotMail accounts. For the first three, the options had been changed and I reset them to opt-out. When I got to the fourth account, which I set up about three weeks ago and have NEVER sent a message from, my options indicated that none of my info was to be public. However, there were 171 SPAMs waiting for me, starting just a few hours after the "Welcome to HotMail" message. Apparently, they released my new e-mail address to the wild the instant it was created, making any decision of mine to opt-out a moot point. Once it's out there, you're screwed.
Everyone sign up for a dozen hotmail accounts and effectively posion they're market data. If companies find out 50% of the email addresses on hotmail.com are false then they'll pay MS less money to host _more_ addresses.
/. trolls.
I hate to be the one to call for this, however it's just as legal as what they're doing. It's no the moral thing to do but it is legal. It's time to do something all you little
I have on old hotmail account that gets 100+ pieces of spam a day, and I no longer recieve any personal email to that account. What I've done, is I use Gotmail to download all the email, then pipe it to Razor. I do this every day from a cron job. If every slashdot user set up a hotmail account with a phony name, and ALLOWED the spam to come by not changing thier preferences, this would be a pretty good way to keep Razor, or whatever other spam reporting service you are using current.
I say bring em' on! I'm happy to waste MS's bandwith, and glad to help keep the spam databases current, so those of us running Spamassassin can keep our real email accounts clean.
Why are people still using Hotmail?
It's got to be the worst free email service on the Net when it comes to reliability, security, spam and superfluous fluff associated with your mail.
When I discovered how much simpler and cleaner YahooMail was I ditched my HotMail account and never regretted it for a moment.
Okay, Yahoo may still change your marketing preferences, but at least they had the decency to let you know about it and give you a chance to reverse the changes before adding you to a long list of lists.
However, the best thing of all about YahooMail is that I get an incredibly small amount of spam arriving in my yahoomail email box.
Either their spam filtering is far more effective, or spammers consider Hotmail user to be dumber (and therefore more likely to believe that you can earn $50,000 a month stuffing envelopes).
I also get a 6MB mailbox for free (perhaps because I was an early adopter -- I don't think they're quite as generous for new signups) and the service seems very reliable.
With my Javascript turned off I don't even see the pop-up ads that can be such a PITA when browsing Yahoo's properties.
Yahoo may be far from perfect but it's a whole lot better than Hotmail that's an absolute undeniable fact.
So, I guess that's my moral to the story... don't just use these services... USE them. Everyone that asks for your demographic info is giving you the opportunity to make ALL of that database less valid and less useful. This really is an opportunity.
ceci n'est pas un 'sig'
I moved not long ago and never changed my profile. But my profile now shows my new state and zip! My GF's Hotmail account profile was changed likewise, and she never changed her profile, too!
Mod down people who tell people how to mod in their sigs
Proxomitron, the ad blocker software, can identify any browser you have as anything you like. The default is Space Bison. (Unfortunately, I don't think there is a Linux version.)
Identify as Opera: dont work
Identify as Mozilla 5.0: dont work
Identify as Mozilla 4.76: Works
Identify as Mozilla 3.0: dont work
Identify as MSIE 5.0: Works(duh!)
Yet, in Opera, all the pages are rendered the same way, and all pages in hotmail work fine in Opera assuming you identify it as a 'preferred browser'. So, its not a functionality issue, just a "use our damn browser or else" issue. A DDoS attack from MSN to non-IE users? hehe
I was using Hashmail but it's down for these days. Is there really not good free email with proper security level and a pop3/imap server and can survice on its own and probably wouldn't die in the near future? Hmm, may be I'm asking too much for free services. :/
I had to change my Opera identity to get it to let me in. Looks like one of those ad hoc "version check" things that makes presumptions about the capabilities of your browser.
v iew.asp. The same sort of idea is going to hold true with the Liberty Alliance system as well.
Having said this, this has more to do with Microsoft Passport than Microsoft. I've actually been evaluating Passport as an optional authentication method on a current project, and one of the features that it offers is that upon authentication partners can get the basic user information (such as what they state on their site when you look at what "other registration info lists") for the purpose of making it easier for the user to complete orders, etc. It's unfortunate that they hijacked Hotmail to begin this, and the preference should start and not (perhaps even terminating your account if you refuse to allow it, but certainly not automatically doing it), however that's the whole purpose of Passport : To give users one username and password, and to allow them an easier experience on the net. You can see the details at http://www.microsoft.com/myservices/passport/over
...because of some stupid little thing like this?
Not because Windows XP forces you to call Microsoft to "register" it if you buy a new motherboard?
Not because Outlook and Outlook Express open attachments and install viruses, worms, and trojans FOR you?
Not because Microsoft voids your software's license because you "installed it too many times"?
Not because Media Player was shipped with spyware in it?
Not because Microsoft is forcing ridiculous licensing schemes onto educational institutions?
Not because Microsoft treats their users like babies and thinks that they know better than you what you want to do with your computer?
Not because they got rid of Clippy from MS Office?
Not because they bullied OEMs to install ONLY Microsoft operating environments?
Good grief... If THIS is what it takes to drive people over the edge, they shoulda went with writing a new "we 0wNz your house, car, wife, and kids" clause in their EULA.
(If you're a user, login, go to Options > Personal Profile, and un-check the boxes at the bottom of that page.)
Shouldn't that read something like...
"If you're a user, then the preference to change is your email provider."
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
piANALto
:P!
Hotmail doesn't like Anal
Wierd considering they want to fuck all their users up the butt....
Tim
Omnia vestra castrorum habetur nobis.
I obfuscated the names because I have nothing against the people who responded (or didn't respond, depending on your point of view) to my request. Their replies were slightly mechanistic, and it is clear (to me, yvmv) that Microsoft has no intention of giving up the information I provided to open my hotmail account. But I planned for this day, so any junk mail Microsoft may have signed "me" up for, using the name and address I generously provided, is being forwarded to the dead letters office in Leesville, Louisiana. Yeeha.
This latest move comes as no surprise, really. I can't imagine Redmond respects my privacy any more than Yahoo!, Egghead, or any one of a dozen other defunct dot coms...
===== BEGIN =====
Excellent. That is exactly what I wanted to hear. I intend to close my account presently. I will attempt to log in to hotmail in 100 days. If that attempt succeeds, I will contact you then.
From: "Microsoft .NET Passport Support"
To:
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: CST60498798ID - delete my account
Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 20:23:03 -0800
Hello mephistopheles51@hotmail.com, .NET Passport.
.NET Passport Customer Support Representative
Thank you for writing to Microsoft
In response to your inquiry, I would just like to reiterate that your Hotmail account is an automatic Passport account as well. Therefore, if you close your Hotmail account, your Passport account will also be cancelled.
I hope I was able to help you.
Thank you for your patience.
Sincerely,
Pi.
Microsoft
--- Original Message --- .NET Passport Support"
From: mephistopheles51@hotmail.com
To: "Microsoft
Sent: Tue Feb 26 19:40:25 PST 2002
Subject: RE: RE: RE: CST60498798ID - delete my account
Finally, someone actually *read* my question. After receiving the exact same response twice in a row I was becoming concerned that there was no human being on the other end of the computer at all, but a machine, which was parsing the question and appending the appropriate "solution". To rephrase your reply: if I close my hotmail account, and DO NOT USE MY PASSPORT FOR 90 DAYS, all information provided to or collected by Microsoft will be automatically deleted, including any information provided to marketers, advertisers, or any of Microsoft's "partners". If you respond affirmatively, I will close my hotmail account and expect that the non-public information provided to Microsoft by me will be deleted as above, following 90 days of inactivity. If you must respond negatively, please forward my question to someone who will guarantee that the non-public information provided to Microsoft by me will be deleted as above, or who will state, for the record, that it simply cannot (or will not) be done prior to responding. I should like a name in the latter case. In either case, if I have not heard from a representative of hotmail or passport in three days, I will take this matter up again. I eagerly await your reply.
Thank you.
>From: "Microsoft .NET Passport Support"
.NET Passport.
.NET Passport Customer Support Representative
>To:
>Subject: RE: RE: RE: CST60498798ID - delete my account
>Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 23:02:00 -0800
>
>Hello Mephistopheles51,
> Thank you for writing to Microsoft
> Regarding your inquiry, Email services of Hotmail Passport IDs are
>automatically deactivated after 30 days of inactivity. After such time,
>your Hotmail Passport will cease to be an email account but you can still
>continue using the ID on other Participating Passport sites.
> Should you wish to have your Passport ID purged from our system, please
>refrain from accessing the account for 90 days. Accounts are automatically
>removed from our system only after the specified period of inactivity.
> I hope I was able to answer your question, if you have other inquiries,
>please do not hesitate to write us back.
>
>
>
>Sincerely,
>
>
>Je.
>Microsoft
>
>--- Original Message --- .NET Passport Support"
>From: mephistopheles51@hotmail.com
>To: "Microsoft
>Sent: Mon Feb 25 19:00:23 PST 2002
>Subject: RE: RE: CST60498798ID - delete my account
>
>I'm afraid you don't understand, as previously explained.
> I want to delete my "passport", thereby deleting all information provided to
>or collected by Microsoft, and not just my hotmail account. As indicated by
>the recent memorandum from Bill Gates, it appears Microsoft has finally
>realized that it must earn users' trust. This is a step in the right
>direction. Users are not a cash machine for any corporation that decides to
>abuse its monopoly status for the benefit of the marketing and advertising
>departments of its many "partners".
> However, the recent attacks on hotmail, and the vulnerabilities in
>Microsoft's ".net" and "passport" services have convinced me that none of
>the information I provided to Microsoft is truly secure, not even my name,
>address, or IP, and that Microsoft cannot be trusted not to use the
>information provided or collected for its own gain, and to my detriment.
>Therefore, I would like to delete all information I provided to Microsoft,
>or which has been collected by Microsoft about me, in its entirety.
> Please tell me how to do that, or direct my inquiry to someone who can.
>Merely deleting my hotmail account simply will not suffice. Thank you.
> >From: "Microsoft .NET Passport Support"
.NET Passport.
.NET Passport site (such as Messenger or eShop) for
.NET Passport for a full 90 days. In
.NET Passport
.NET Passport has comprehensive online help available to you.
.NET Passport or help with Microsoft
.NET Passport
.NET Passport help topics.
.NET Passport. If you have further questions,
.NET Passport Customer Support Representative
> >To:
> >Subject: RE: RE: CST60498798ID - delete my account
> >Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 19:21:11 -0800
> >
> >Hello Mephistopheles51,
> >
> >
> >Thank you for writing back to Microsoft
> >
> >With regard to your concern, please be guided on the procedures of deleting
> >your mephistopheles51@hotmail.com account.
> >
> > >>> To close your Hotmail account
> >
> >1. In the upper right corner of any Hotmail page, click "Help".
> >
> >2. In the MSN Hotmail Help window, click "Find", type "Close account", and
> >then click "Go".
> >
> >3. In the search results, click the "Close your Hotmail account" link. 4.
> >Follow the instructions to close your account.
> >
> >You can also close your Hotmail account by not signing in to the account
> >for 30 days or within the first 10 days after you set up your account.
> >Hotmail then marks your account as "Inactive", your stored messages are
> >permanently deleted, and inbound messages are returned to the sender. You
> >can reactivate your account by going to the sign-in page and typing your
> >sign-in name and password. If your account remains "Inactive" for 90 days,
> >Hotmail permanently deletes it. You cannot reactivate your deleted account
> >because it has been completely removed from our system. You must register
> >for a new one.
> >
> >Note: If you want to permanently close your Hotmail account, do not sign in
> >to Hotmail or any other
> >which you use your user@hotmail.com
> >addition, if your Hotmail account is closed, your hotmail.com
> >is also closed.
> > Microsoft
> >For more information about Microsoft
> >.NET Passport features, click the Help link on a Microsoft
> >web page. When the help window opens, click the appropriate topic, or click
> >the All Topics link at the top of the help window for a categorized list of
> >all Microsoft
> >
> >Thank you for using Microsoft
> >please reply to this e-mail message.
> >
> >
> >
> >Sincerely,
> >
> >Lo.
> >Microsoft
> >
> >--- Original Message --- .NET Passport Support"
> >From: mephistopheles51@hotmail.com
> >To: "Microsoft
>
> >Sent: Fri Feb 22 17:35:47 PST 2002
> >Subject: RE: CST60498798ID - delete my account
> >
> >I'm afraid you don't understand. I want to delete my "passport". Microsoft
> >simply cannot be trusted with the information I provided, and cannot be
> >trusted not to attempt to collect more and more associative information to
> >be sold to its marketing and advertising "partners". I do not want any
> >information I provided to Microsoft to exist on Microsoft's servers at all.
> > The help page simply states that I will be closing my hotmail account, and
> >that after 90 days my hotmail account will be deleted, but that deletion of
> >my hotmail account will not affect my passport, and that I may reactivate my
> >hotmail account at any time within 90 days simply by signing in to hotmail.
> >This is not acceptable.
> > Please direct me to a link that will allow me to delete my passport, thus
> >removing all passport information collected by Microsoft.
> > As an aside, why do hotmail.msn.com, passport.com, and msn.com need 14
> >cookies between them? Don't you find that a little excessive? I certainly do.
> > Thank you!
> > >From: "Microsoft .NET Passport Support"
.NET Passport.
.NET Passport account.
.NET Passport site (such as Messenger or eShop)
.NET Passport for a full 90 days.
.NET
.NET Passport has comprehensive online help available to you.
.NET Passport or help with Microsoft
.NET Passport
.NET Passport help topics.
.NET Passport. If you have further questions,
.NET Passport Customer Support Representative
>
> > >To:
> > >Subject: RE: CST60498798ID - delete my account
> > >Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 19:31:37 -0800
> > >
> > >Hello mephistopheles51,
> > >
> > >Thank you for writing to Microsoft
> > > In response to your concern, I have provided below the procedure on how
> > >to delete your mephistopheles51@hotmail.com
> > > >>> To close your Hotmail account
> > > 1. In the upper right corner of any Hotmail page, click "Help".
> > > 2. In the MSN Hotmail Help window, click "Find", type "Close account",
> > >and then click "Go".
> > > 3. In the search results, click the "Close your Hotmail account" link.
> >4.
> > >Follow the instructions to close your account.
> > > You can also close your Hotmail account by not signing in to the account
> > >for 30 days or within the first 10 days after you set up your account.
> > >Hotmail then marks your account as "Inactive", your stored messages are
> > >permanently deleted, and inbound messages are returned to the sender. You
> > >can reactivate your account by going to the sign-in page and typing your
> > >sign-in name and password. If your account remains "Inactive" for 90 days,
> > >Hotmail permanently deletes it. You cannot reactivate your deleted account
> > >because it has been completely removed from our system. You must register
> > >for a new one.
> > > Note: If you want to permanently close your Hotmail account, do not sign
> > >in to Hotmail or any other
> > >for which you use your user@hotmail.com
> > >In addition, if your Hotmail account is closed, your hotmail.com
> > >Passport is also closed.
> > > Microsoft
> > >For more information about Microsoft
> > >.NET Passport features, click the Help link on a Microsoft
> > >web page. When the help window opens, click the appropriate topic, or click
> > >the All Topics link at the top of the help window for a categorized list of
> > >all Microsoft
> > >
> > >Thank you for using Microsoft
> > >please reply to this e-mail message.
> > >
> > >
> > >Sincerely,
> > >
> > >Ed.
> > >Microsoft
> > >
> > >--- Original Message --- .NET Passport Support"
> > >From: no@alternate.com
> > >To: "Microsoft
> >
> > >Sent: Tue Feb 19 18:51:42 PST 2002
> > >Subject: delete my account
> > >
> > >CustomerName : don't need don't need
> > >UpdateCountry : false, false
> > >CUBirthdate : don't need
> > >BrowserVersion : don't need
> > >OperatingSystem : don't need
> > >ErrorMessage : n/a
> > >Submit : Send
> > >ContactEmailAddress : mephistopheles51@hotmail.com
> > >Country : US
> > >FirstName : don't need
> > >LastName : don't need
> > >Region : 19283
> > >PostalCode : don't need
> > >Comments : you don't need any of this information to delete my account
> > >RIGHT NOW.
> >
> >Don't Believe the Hype!*
> >*and it's all hype...
Slashdot is my Mercer Box.
Those things are, however, long-term goals.
This action means a SHORT-term cash influx.
What I'm wondering is: could it be that Microsoft is having difficulty making payroll? X-Box is flopping, and what is the last major product release they've had? PC sales are not stellar either.
I realise the received wisdom is that they've got more money than God, but take just a moment to consider who that information is coming from: Microsoft itself, the same people who also say 'we'll be forced to make several million different versions of Windows', and 'this video will demonstrate to the Court that...'
Why do we suddenly believe them when they also say, 'Oh, and we have forty billion dollars. Isn't that cool?'?
Enron looked like a hell of a deal- until reality set in. How many billions of dollars did THEY say THEY had? And I don't think there's any evidence that Enron was LESS truthful than Microsoft.
Wouldn't it be interesting if Microsoft was secretly bankrupt?
Does this mean all the BS info I fed into the hotmail account is going to be exposed? Oh no, what a pity.
When will people learn not to trust any company that exists primarily on the internet?
-- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
With the amount of spam I get on my hotmail account I would rather pay to get more filters/rules than for more diskspace.
Do I really need 8 more MB of "Add 3 inches with one little pill" in my mailbox?
'Same speed C but faster'
They need some reason to explain everything they know besides that they gave themselves permision to everything on your XP inhibitied computer.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
Now I'm trying to figure out how to cancel the service.
Is this truly the only Earth I can live on?
We knew TRUSTe was shit years ago, didn't we?
I guess now there is left no doubt whatsoever.
Is this truly the only Earth I can live on?
I checked mine as well, and they were not checked for me either. I do, however, go out of my way to look for anything, upon signing up for any service at all, that indicates they'll do any marketing whatsoever, be it internal or external. Perhaps the author of the article and others running into it are not so attentive?
The truth about Scientology, Xenu, and you: Operation Clambake
The author of the article asked Craig "FUD Man" Mundie about the new settings in Hotmail while he was giving a talk about "Trustworthy computing". That must count as one of the ironies of this year.
I have to seriously thank slashdot for this info. I've been using Hotmail since 1997 when it was still very useful and had actually entered my real information there (like countless other idiots I presume) and never bothered to change them. Recently they (MSN) started to get more penetrant with their constant warnings about deleting mail if you get near the 2mb limit and now this, not so subtle attempt to sell your info.
Well, I deleted everything there, addresses, stored mails the works, mailed everyone I knew telling them of the private mail change and urged them to change their private web mail as well. I then changed my info to some junk and mailed MSN feedback that they were now free to delete my account. I lso mailed a couple of online news sites about it to top it off.
Not bad, Microsoft makes middle ages feudal robber barons look like pillars of enlightenment, and to boot, I now have a really nice little story to fling at people when they start praising Microsoft as a "decent" company again.
Plus, since Novell is run by Mormons, you know they're not lying when they say they won't sell your personal info, or else they're sure to burn in Hell with eternal damnation. I did catch something in their privacy policy about two guys in black-on-white shirts and ties coming to your house and such, but I'm not too sure what that's all about.
Watching Microsoft deal with "consumers" is like being an orderly in the coma ward, and walking in on the head physician while he's raping unconscious patients in their hospital beds.
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
Ms' little dances and tricks are making me wonder if they are indeed having some cashflow problems. They might have $40billion supposed cash but that could very possibly be the result of some fancy accounting, just like an ex energy concern was supposedly well endowed in cash until someone decied to look at the books a bit more closely.
And, to be accurate, Yahoo didn't even do this. Yahoo opted people in to Yahoo's own internal mailings. They didn't opt people in to sharing their information with third parties, as Hotmail has done.
Hotmail's policy change goes far further, and lets the genie out of a bottle it can't fit back in just by changing your prefs back, because once your email addy is sold, it's out there forever.
This actually makes Yahoo look good by comparison.
Kevin Fox
I don't think you necessarily need to own your own domain. There are some excellent pay for e-mail sites that support IMAP (sorry, POP sucks for me):
-> http://www.fastmail.fm - This is my provider. Excellent features, and you can even set your MX pointer to point to them. $20/year I think for 100MB IMAP + tons of features. Totally bad-ass.
-> http://www.mailsnare.net - I had a friend who went through these people, and although they don't support MX pointers, they seem to offer some pretty good bang for your buck. How about 100MB IMAP account for $15/year (+ setup fee)? At that price, why would anyone use Hotmail except for garbage accounts?
FastMail.fm also offer free accounts with 10MB. I would trust them more than Microsoft. Of course, it's cheap to upgrade your account and you get tons of cool features.
> What's the cheapest hosting you can get? $15 a month? Over a hundred a year at least.
What planet are you from?!
Try $15 per year .
It's true that raw disk capacity isn't their only cost :-) But CPUs keep gaining performance, and wholesale internet bandwidth keeps getting cheaper. Labor for managing the space doesn't keep getting cheaper, though there's some downward pressure given the current dot-com bust, and system management automation software should keep getting more powerful, reducing the amount of sysadmin time per Hotmail customer.
* 20GB drive for $100 then; $100 is now about 100 GB, depending on what's on sale. (More often 60-80GB, if you don't catch a really good sale.)
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Hey why don't we: Forward all our hotmail spam to abuse@hotmail.com? I know we'll get cut off after a few emails, but if all of slashdot does it.... Lord knows we slashdot websites left and right... We'd have to get it with outlook or OE, or for those brave hearted and determined enough to do it manually from the website: (god love em). If we all send a few emails their way, they will be punished rather well.
Oh yeah, and subscribe abuse@hotmail.com to all the gay porn you can...
Lousy facepalm.
Connection to host registernet.passport.com is broken
Liberty.
They allow reacquisition of expired accounts because they know people are scared of someone getting an account with their old email address. Your email is up for grabs if you don't log in once a month. It's how they keep you logging in.
Works fine in wine
The german consumer organization "Stifung Warentest" made a comparative test between a lot of free e-mail services. Two of them failed, one of these were Hotmail. It was actually a very good test that tested both availability, usability, licenses etc. Hotmail failed on their license agreement and security issues.
One competitor that got a good mark was Yahoo mail.
Dybdahl.
Viruses, security holes and general indifference about computer security; price-gouging licensing schemes; BSA audits; FUD about open source software; and now a breach of the privacy of Hotmail users (not to mention increasingly poor service for Hotmail). And then there's the antitrust trial, with revelations of threats and retaliation against OEM's, ISP's and software vendors; arrogant definace of the DOJ and the courts; no willingness to compomise, no insight or remorse; fabricated evidence in the courtroom; and Bill Gates on his deposition video in a seething rage, rocking back and forth in his chair, playing ignorant and obstinate, claiming not to understand simple words and not to remember crucial business decisions, only to be squarely contradicted by his own email.
When the Church of $cientology began a few years ago to confront their critics on the Internet, some of the critics began to refer to their campaign as Operation Footbullet, because the Co$ simply blundered again and again in highly public fashion. Their corruption and outright craziness became more obvious than ever before to anyone who cared to look.
Has the Micro$oft Corporation been conducting its own Operation Footbullet? Up until about two or three years ago, much of this was ignored by the media and there was almost no awareness of their excesses in the general public. And of course many people still don't pay much attention to the software industry. But anyone who pays the least bit of attention is faced with a constant stream of reports about ruthlessness and frankly criminal behavior, a profound lack of respect for consumers and business partners, and a general stench of unethical behavior that can only be overpowered by Enron's awful stink. I suppose Enron is ahead of M$ on the scales of immorality, but nevertheless, M$ is risking going down in history as one of the greediest and most ruthless plutocrats since the the robber barons of the railroad and Standard Oil days -- and those are the ones who've held the record for over a hundred years!
Of course, some people will respond that I'm exaggerating. I'll probably even get modded as Flamebait or Troll. And indeed, it really is hard to state the case against Micro$oft without sounding like a zealot, because the accusations are simply so hair-raising, it's hard for the uninitiated to believe that they're all true (this is, in fact, what I used to think about the Church of $cientology). Judge Jackson should not have shot his mouth off the way he did, but who could blame the man, he probably just couldn't help himself. The awful fact is that M$ is one of the most appalling corporate gangsters in all of history.
Always keep a sapphire in your mind
Let me get this straight:
- It's totally free
- They provide a huge pile of hardware, software and people to keep up the site and datastores.
- They don't want money in return
- Everything but the sun costs money
So you people think that MS is a philantropic organisation? ALWAYS ask yourself when something is 'free' and the provider of the service has to spent a lot of money to give you this service for 'free': "Where's the catch?". I find this moaning about Hotmail rather silly, if you ask me. If you don't like it, get a real ISP account. Yes that costs money, start wondering where that money's for.
Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.
I believe that if MS has pulled this stunt on its UK based customers, that it is liable for a £500 fine for every customer that files a complaint with the Data Protection Registrar (which if everyone did, would probably for a few hundred million sterling, or half a billion US$).
In the UK we have an act called the 'Data Protection Act' which means any companies doing business in the UK are *obliged* to require our permission to do anything outside their company with our personal data we provide to them, and breaking these rules can be swiftly and harshly punished. In extreme cases, it can result in a business being shut down entirely.
Other fringe benefits include the right to demand a company never contacts you again, and the right to demand to see *all* information a company holds about you, so you can correct this information if it is incorrect.
Does ANYONE on here set up Hotmail accounts using genuine information? I thought ALL Hotmail accounts, apart maybe from those set up by grannies, were using fake details.
How hard is it to find a zip code!
Would you ever knowingly provide Bill with your details?
How useful it is to read the final conclusion of your email adventure before even finding out how it started. Top posters really are "Read the book backwards" sorta people, aren't they?
"Don't get mad, get a monkey!"
Yes, but I bet they don't consider their hundreds of 'trading partners' to be third parties -- i.e., pay us a small fee, and you are no longer a third party.
I was just logging out after turning off those options that had magically been turned on when I noticed this URL go by in the address bar
fortunately, the system was being so slow that I had time to capture it. It looks as if the protections we are supposed to have about cookies not being sent to different domains mean nothing to Microsoft. No surprise there then.
Yep, nobody cared when Yahoo did it... and Microsoft can't think of a frickin' idea on their own, so they probably copied this from Yahoo... Ha ha....
Juln
I was just updating another account which I set up with the first/last name "Concerned User" a while ago (I used it to send a polite "did you know you are a spam relay" message once so chose a suitable name for the purpose). After switching off those permissions I tried to update the account only to find that "User" is no longer acceptable as a last name. For that account I am now "Concerned Individual" which apparently is OK.
Is this a stupid policy implemented by idiots? It looks like it to me. I pity the people who use Hotmail for anything serious.
Also logged in to uncheck the flags when I heard this story. :-)
/Johnny
But now hotmail won't accept my First Name: Mads
It said it was reserved or prohibited!? How can M$ tell me that my first name i prohibited? My first name in my hotmail-account, and in real-life has always been Mads!
Is 'Mads' a curse-word in the english language, or what's up with that?
Well, so I had to type in another name. 'Johnny' it accepted fine, so from now on you all call me 'Johnny'
All your first name are belong to us.
/Mads, ups sorry..
Funny - my preferences continue to remain un-ticked.
Sorry to ask the obvious question, but since IANAL, I'd be interested to know. If you have explicitly said you don't want a company to reveal your private details, can they legally change your mind for you? I realise that blanket statements about changing Ts&Cs without notice might apply to services like Hotmail, but that doesn't necessarily make them legal either. I would have expected this to fall foul of data protection legislation, at least in most European countries.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
DSL vrs. Cable is a good deviding line bewteen service and a digital TV/Browser in the US. The DSL companies were generally more competitive and offer better terms of service than the entertianment derrived cable companies. Mine, Cox, is one of the worst, opting for all M$ crap they think gives them control and optimize their ability to squeeze their clients. They block ports 25 and 80, forbid VNC and all forms of "servers", and charge $15/month extra for a static IP.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
The problem with IE reporting invalid HTML is that all Microsoft products that automatically generate HTML generate invalid HTML.
...."
Now, think about this: Joe web developer fires up Frontpage, and makes his page. He saves it, and loads IE - immediately IE pukes up half a dozen HTML errors, then starts on the Javascript....
Now, what do you think poor dim Joe will think? He'll think "What a piece of crap this FrontPage is! It doesn't work - I'll get something better"
So, since making FrontPage/Word/... generate good HTML is "hard" (for the guys at Microsoft....), the guys in the FrontPage team yelled over the wall at the IE guys, "Hey, can you make it so IE won't puke if we don't close our tables?" "Sure thing, George
Plus, by making the HTML so generated only work with IE, you help tie the products together (illegally extending your monopoly).
Remember, when considering a new market, Microsoft always asks themselves "And how does this help us dominate some other market?" Microsoft won't move into a market just to take over that market, they want to be able to get leverage to take over some other market too.
Example: why is it that Microsoft hasn't targeted mapping companies like Delorme for destruction? Microsoft has Streets and Trips, they could easly crush Delorme AAA MapNGo like a bug. Why don't they? Because, at this time, owning the mapping software market won't allow Microsoft to take over any other market.
So, making IE not puke on bad HTML helps Microsoft toward domination of the market for web design tools, and domination of the market for web design tools allows them to dominate the market for browsers. Doing things right doesn't.
www.eFax.com are spammers
Doesn't really matter who it's approved by if they don't follow it!
It wouldn't accept 18xx years, however I am now born on a date that is equally useless to them.
It also doesn't ask for street address or income - just birthdate, country/state (state changes depending on country selection, as does available time zones -- apparantly there are no "outlying US islands" in EST/EDT), and occupation (now "Other").
MS Passport for:
Jake Blues
1060 West Addison
Chicago IL
July 1, 1952
Male
Musician / Guest of the state
It not only fools marketing droids, it also works good on Illinois Nazis as well!
SD
âoeWho knew something as harmless as willful ignorance could end up having real consequences?â
Someone posted further down that this is illegal in the UK. IANAL but as far as I can see, it's also ilegal in most of the EU.
The EU laws on data protection is where you can read the relavent material. There is also a link there to mail the EU commission on abuse of these laws.
I remember a friend of mine tried to get me to use a mac.com account: it wouldn't let me use it though, because I didn't have a Mac. It didn't surprise me, the mac.com services are basically included in the price of the Apple hardware.
A week ago said friend told me they no longer locked out people who didn't use Macs - but as far as I'm concerned they already told me to get lost in the least subtle way possible, so why should I bother with them?
JPEG's and banners and flash animations
Popups and opt-outs and priv'cy violations
Big boobs and sleep pills and herbal ginsengs,
This is the junk that my Hotmail box brings
Fake "" tags, disable Java,
Disable plugins from Macromedia
Limit the things that your browser can do,
This is the junk hotmail forces on you
When the dot nets,
When the hail storms,
When the passport pries,
I simply sign up for more hotmail accounts
And continue to falsify
ActiveX scripting and ASP pages
Profiteeting in which hotmail engages,
Exploiting users who don't have a clue,
This is what people at Microsoft do
Bending o'er backwards to meets terms of service,
Changing agreements that made me feel nervous
Clauses, execptions will bite you some day,
This legal mumbo has pushed me away
When the terms change,
When the box's checked,
It's my Waterloo
I'll never sign up for more hotmail accounts
From now on I'll use...
Netscape mail!
They are two guys who have written a complete Outlook clone (well sort of) in DHTML. It works really well (if you're an IE only sort of person) and costs about 30 quid a year iirc. You also get POP and IMAP access. Their DHTML webmail client blows Hotmail away, it's got stuff like drag and drop, just like a software email client.
I can't believe it says "MSN Hotmail - More Useful Everyday". Sure is "more useful!"
I checked it, and yes - it had two of three boxes checked. The one not checked was share my first and last name.
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do.
Funny thing. I have three accounts on hotmail that I check for various groups. One had the boxes checked, one did not, and one had to be reactivated. When I reactivated, that had the boxes checked. Nowhere in the reactivation agreement does it say anything about sharing your email or other information. It just points people to the privacy policy, which as far as I can tell hasn't been changed yet.
Most people would die sooner than think; in fact, they do.
Then this would be the usual bitching about drastic TOS changes in a free service. Micro$hit sneaked these changes in without warning or notice. Only an imbecile would describe this as ethical behavior.
Why don't you go back to debugging your copy of Windows XP Server and leave discussions of how an Internet business should conduct itself towards its user to your betters?
Tech Public Policy stuff
The awful fact is that M$ is one of the most appalling corporate gangsters in all of history.
HA!
If you knew anything, anything at all about JD Rockefeller or JP Morgan's operations and tactics at the turn of the last century in the oil and rail industries respectively, you would shit in your hat and praise God for Bill Gates.
Not to defend that schmuck, but we're talking about two entirely different leagues of malfeasance. You bitch about BSA audits? Try hired jackbooted thugs & private police fucking killing you for talking smack about the company or trying to organize a union. Gates doesn't even exist in the same league.
The only tool you've got against psychosis is experience.
I'd say go to http://directory.google.com/Top/Computers/Internet / -mail/Free/Web-Based?tc=1/... I found "Searched within the category Google Directory for free webmail. Results 1 - 10 of about 1,030"
You'll probably find that 2/3 of the listings either don't work or went to pay-for-pay... but that still leaves plenty of places to replace hotmail.
There are also a shitload of sites with free website databases.
I know this because I had to replace my free webmail account on onebox some months ago when they went to a pay system. However, finding one that supported the service I most needed, remote notification of incoming mail to my real account so I won't have to log in every time I get spammed was very difficult. Finding that took several hours. Finding one that supports POP3 will take a while. If you just want a simple free webmail box, that should take just a few minutes.
Tech Public Policy stuff
This is interesting, my choices werent checked. I may have one little difference though, Im set as 'govt/military'. That is the only thing I can think of that would cause them to not change mine...
"Derp de derp."
I already have one hotmail account and any relation to reality is a mere coincidence!
I didn't quite parse your acronym. Were you trying to say, "Your Victimization May Vary?"
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
That's when you post user/pass of all your dozens of accounts on the web. Oh dear... =)
However, once the account's created, you can access its services from other machines. The iDisk is accessible by WebDAV and the email by POP3. You still need a Mac to do account management though, like setting vacation messages and forwarding your email; but just checking it, any system will do.
my old sig used to be funny, but then slashcode ate it and now it's not funny anymore