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Mozilla RC3 Released
pjdepasq was one of many reader to submit the news that "Those fine folks at Mozilla.org rolled out RC3 on Thursday I noted. They say it's the last planned release before 1.0, which I'm guessing is right around the corner. As a fan of the project (I'm using it on 3 platforms!), kudos to all of you!" Here are the release notes.
For those of you getting pissed off about a 1.0 release, dont worry, not much longer, there even planning the parties ,what about in the spirit of computer-ness they have a LAN party?)
(i wish i could go, but no ones having one in perth
Microsoft IIS is to webserving as KFC is to healthy eating
...The Mozilla crew sneezed today. Come on folks - it's just another build with "RC3" tacked onto the name. Yes, it's good that it's nearing "completion" or whatever that means in software terms.
With the upcoming release of Mozilla 1.0, Netscape 7 will be based on that. I really hope reviewers, developers and users will take a new view on Netscape so Netscape can gain some of the lost market share. I'm tired of seeing websites which simply don't care about Netscape/Mozilla support...
And don't start saying "hey, I don't need Netscape, I want plain Mozilla!". You're right, but Netscape is for (l)users. If Netscape 7 has success, you'll also have more luck surfing the internet with your Mozilla browser.
By the way, MozillaZine is also a great source of information for Mozilla-fans.
Mozilla makes me moist. I think it's that sexy green lizard...but it might be the ability to turn off pop-under ads.
And suddenly I understand your 'ObviousGuy' handle.
Unable to read configuration file '/bigassraid/htdig//conf/14229.conf'
Geocrawler error message.
It uses native widgets. I.e., unlike a lot of other apps - eg, Microsoft's own Office XP - Mozilla actually uses Windows XP's `styles'. If you get rid of the GreyModern / Netscape 4 themes and replace them with the IE theme, Mozilla actually looks and acts like a rather pleasant and featurefilled native looking web browser for Win32. Without the security holes of IE, plus tabbing, popup control, and lots of other goodies IE doesn't have.
...the DHTML performance will increase?
The current series has a bad bug in DHTML animation performance that I've noticed -- performance regressed in the 0.97 -> 0.98 release, and ever since then rapid animations etc. have often not rendered correctly.
Read through the bugzilla entry there -- apparently some experimental builds have 450% increased JavaScript animation speed, some test are linked to try it out yourself. Does anyone more in touch with the Moz project internals than I have an idea as to when this will be integrated with the main branch of the code -- I heard 1.01 was the target a while back?
I say this as Moz is looking more and more likely to turn up on user's desktops as part of AOL/Compuserve/whatever as they escape from MS's browser licensing terms. Bugs in release candidates are fine (that's what they're there for) but if mass-market NS7 has shortfalls like these, it could spell trouble for JavaScript developers like me.
Anyway, more power to the Mozilla project! It's good to see a truly free, standards compliant, cross-platform browser out there. Looking back a year, I wonder what it'll be like in a year's time...
<!-- DHTML / JavaScript menu, popup tooltip, Ajax scripts -->
.. at least in my team I'm working in. I already convinced one guy with the no-more-unwanted-pop-up-windows-feature (kicks ass) and two other will have a glance at my mozilla installation because I told them horror-stories about dialers etc which are mostly spread trough IE (the crap). Hopefully, the whole company will switch to Mozilla (I doubt it but anyway) sooner or later. what about mozilla in your companies anyway? already in office pc setups included?
1) What version of Mozilla is Netscape 7.0pr1 based on?
2) Is Mozilla ever likely to support the auto-update function that Netscape has just included? (Being a sys-admin of 50-odd M$ boxes makes it a nightmare contemplating to update them all with the latest release)
3) I know the party for 1.0 is June 12th but what is the projected/updated release date?
sorry to tell you this, but your link to bugzilla is pointless...
;)
you see they are one of the few sites out there that knows to block referrer hits from slashdot (guessin it killed em once or twice, but hey at least they learned)
doesn't mean your point is any less valid, just that bugzilla knows better than to be slahdotted
When IE is part of the OS itself, and Mozilla is just an application running on the OS.
I suppose if you code Mozilla directly into the kernel or directly into explorer.exe, yeah it will be as fast as IE.
Compare the rendering speed of Mozilla and IE and IE is left in the dust though.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Bloated? A ten meg download that includes browser, mail, news, irc client? And I don't know what machine you are using, but Moz is as snappy as anything else on my computer. I'm sorry, but nothing about this excellent peice of software seems bloated or slow to me. This is by far the best web browser I've ever used IMHO.
Just copy the URL in your clipboard. Open a seperate browser instance and paste your url there. Hey presto!
:-)
Nothing too difficult
Dodge this !! --Trinity, The Matrix
Oh, damn it. I didn't see the Mac OSX title, I only read the body of your text. I was of course talking about the windows version on my Duron 950.
Moz is way the heck less bloated in "complete" form than any similar browser package is.
And if you want slim and streamlined with all the rendering speed of Gecko checkout Galeon.
Once more unto the breach dear friends...
Basically, this is what posts you'll see.
"IE is faster, Mozilla cant beat IE"
Lets respond to this post right now. OF course IE is faster and always will be faster because its build into the damn OS. MSN msger is faster than ICQ and AIM, anything made by Microsoft should be the fastest considering Microsoft has advantages in terms of knowing the source code of the entire OS.
"IE has won, its too late, Mozilla team should just give up"
Isnt this exactly what the IE team should have done back in 1998 when Netscape 4 was winning 70-30 in terms of percentages?
"Opera's done it all first, Mozilla is copying"
Of course Mozilla and Netscape will copy Opera the same way Opera and IE copied Netscapes Bookmark system.
"Opera is better than Mozilla and IE because its faster"
Are you using Windows? Perhaps you should try linux on your 486, its faster. What? You arent using a 486? Well stop complaining about speed, if Mozilla is slow, its because you are too slow to upgrade
"Mozilla/Netscape cant render page X"
Maybe it WOULD render page X if you stopped using IE and wrote that same msg to the site owner
"Mozilla is bloated and slow"
Try Kmeleon, Galeon, or if both those are slow try lynx.
"AOL isnt supporting Mozilla, why wont they put gecko into their AOL package?"
They have. AOL 7.0 gecko beta. Also try Netscape 7
This ends all arguements you people will have before they begin, the rest of the arguements will be about bugs in mozilla, when will 1.0 release, why mozilla isnt availble for your obscure OS, or why the mozilla team took 4 years to build the best browser.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
It's a zillion times faster than IE6 running natively on Tru64, Solaris, AIX, Linux, and any BSD. Or was that NaN times faster? ;)
... but whatever you say it doesn't change the big picture. Sure it doesn't run in the kernel, sure it takes more time to load because it is not preloaded - though NS6 can be, and sure it will be slower because that or any other reason under the sun. I am aware of all that. But the performance difference is huge. The interface is slower doing its work, i can even see sometimes the redrawing happening. Some pages are slower to render, i have never seen it render that much faster than IE btw. But even if i can deal with that, there is something i can't deal with. Loading Mozilla RC1 or NS6 with my favourite set of pages plus a Visual Traceroute java applet eats up memory like it was mana. The same pages in IE5.01 eat 29MB ram according to Windows 2000 task manager. When i left Mozilla running it was into 68MB. So, to reply to your comments, interesting as they may be, i will use the words from Galileo - "And yet it moves".
/Pedro
This is not intended as flamebait by any means, but does anyone know what sort of browser share Mozilla/Netscape have? I have been following and pushing both browsers for the past year, encouraging others to try them out, but when checking the browser statistics for my website they don't have any entry at all. Right now the breakdown for my site is about 97% Internet Explorer 5+ and 3% Netscape 4, which is a real shame. Does anyone out there have any more promising browser usuage stats?
It is also interesting guaging people response to Mozilla/Netscape on sites other than Slashdot. It seems like there is real anti-Netscape sentiment out there, an example being the response to Netscape 7 at deviantart where there is loads of "Netscape sucks" one liners. I could be wrong on this, but it seems ever since Netscape 4 a lot of people seem unprepared to give Netscape a second chance. Perhaps it is "cool" to hate Netscape because they are owned by AOL, I don't know
Anyway that aside, Mozilla is great is most definitely stable enough for public consumption as the last few releases haven't crashed on me at all. As soon as I get home I'll download RC3.
aus.music.scrapbook
I'm sure some people reading this have passed over Mozilla in the past because the "extra mouse buttons" as provided on the nicer Logitech, MS etc. mice that were bound to commands such as "Internet Back" didn't work.
Well, it works now -- musta happened sometime in the last two months, because it wasn't working then.
This was the last major usability flaw that prevented me from finally switching to Mozilla from IE6. Between that and the "native XP theming" support, this is finally a usable browser for me.
I'm no Mozilla advocate or anything, but if you are using IE, at least give Mozilla a shot...
I cant get Mozilla to do this. Looks like it's all images on, or all images off, period. I read where this has something to do with ad blocking. Anyway, is there a way to get Mozilla to do the Netscape trick I describe above?
N 7.0PR1 is based on M 1.0RC2.
Answer to (2), probably not. That code is propietary and belongs to Netscape. But futurology is a very uncertain science.
There is a thingy called "Roadmap". While there is no definitive date for the final release, it may happen as soon as next week.
When discussing a new version of a browser, someone always complains about the speed of $NEWBROWSER. I've never had any problems with browser speed, not on any machine (well, except IBrowse on ye olde Amiga, that was _slow_ ;) ).
Come on, are you guys constantly loading multi-megabytes of HTML into your browsers? I think the biggest problem by far is compatibility and not speed (thanks to lame IE-only sites).
Can you hear me, Major Tom? I'm not the man they think I am at home...
My site is not commercial. It is in an academic environment. I get a 3/2 relationship for MIE/NS. Lynx still shows up, and opera is making more of a splash. Surprisingly, or not, various worms are the biggest users of my site.
Wow... A new Debian stable and Mozilla 1.0 will be released in the same millennium !!! Ok... It will take Debian another millenium to get Moz 1.0 into stable... but hey.. this is exciting ! And no Woody is NOT officially released yet. They said that is would take a couple of weeks more... that was a couple and a half weeks ago...
In some markets, there still is some hope, as I posted not so long ago. The good news is that our percentage Mozilla/NS6 using visitors is rising (albeit slowly). The "bad" news is that we definitely are atypical: yesterday we got about 16% non-Windows visitors.
Linux user since early January 1992.
I am working on a website in the Netherlands where High School student can check how they made their exams.
Yesterday 77.000 unique visitors. 98.78% IE, 0.85% Netscape, 0.11% Gecko type browsers.
Of course these are high school students. I wonder what the stats are for a page like slashdot, or maybe a more independant site like CNN. Has anyone got some info about this?
How about Google?
I have been pwned because my
You might have better luck at http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/
This sig under construction. Please check back later.
I run a little site for translations of a somewhat obscure series of Japanese text adventure games. It kind of skirts the border of being techie in that it's computer related, but I get around 1 in 12 hits from mozilla. I think it's a tad skewed from average though, in that I mention mozilla on occasion and the reasons I use it amid my occasional little speechs after the normal progress reports. Even if only a couple normal users take a look, it's quite likley they'll enjoy it and tell some of their friends, and on and on.
Everything will be taken away from you.
startup time and bloat is mostly due to the XUL based UI. Gecko in it self is damn quick.
If you want to decrease startup time just preload the app.
Mozilla failed?? lacking support of standards??
yeah, right, trolling aren't we?
Mozilla might have taken far longer than expected, but it was hardly failed, AOLs switch to Gecko would be a proof of that.
Gecko is also one of the most standards compliant engines around today
Don't like AOL 'dirty' games with Mozilla?? Welcome to the real world, at least Mozilla is open source, you can always fork the source and do your own stuff if you think the current mozilla is tainted in some way by AOL
if (!signature) { throw std::runtime_error("No sig!"); }
Yesturday, as rc3 was released, bug ID 82534 (http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=82534 copy and paste - they dont allow links from slashdot) was changed from Mozilla 1.0 to Mozilla 1.0.1
To summarise, this bug freezes any keyboard input to mozilla under some circumstances - so its kinda major
It only happens on windows, but is very easily reproducable (there are many examples of how to produce it in the bug thread)
Two friends of mine tried using mozilla on windows, and both encountered this bug and were stumpped
I cant believe they are planning to release 1.0 with this bug still in since it will for sure put a lot of people off mozilla for a long time - what with it being a point zero...
Its soooo fast!
On my P4 1.7Ghz work PC, with 100KB/sec capped net connection, news.bbc.co.uk takes about 8 seconds to long. Mozilla does it 1.4
FEEL THE SPEED.
Such an improvement since the last time I played with it! I'm very impressed.
edit preferences->mail&newsgroups:
"mail start page"
- uncheck "when mail launches, show start page in the message area"
or
- edit the url
Whew. You could perhaps divide your text into several paragraphs, it's a bit heavy to read all that banged into one gigantic block of text ;)
a) startup time is HUGE.
Starts in about two seconds when run at the first time at my machine. For me that is pretty meaningless, because I keep the machine running quite 24/7 and thus have restarted Mozilla about three or four times during the last month anyway to upgrade between various builds.
Then you mention that CSS is far away from completed. While it's true that there are quite a few CSS bugs present, I'd like to see some reasons why it's inferior compared to other products. If it's not, it doesn't do worse than any other product and does not deserve to be the specific target any more than the CSS support of any other browser. What are the standards which it has specifically lacking support?
What does entry e) in your list mean? Examples?
I do not imply that Mozilla is perfect, but IMO as an alternative browser choice, I think that it's definitely not a failure technically.
Everyone who makes generalizations should be shot.
Please people, ITS A JOKE!. Ya know, humor. This is funny stuff. Now most of the complaints can be marked redundant.
*cough* Chimera *cough*
"I tend to think of OS X as Linux with QA and Taste", James Gosling, creator of Java
Redundant, I know. But if you want the speed of gecko, with quartz-rendering and tabbed browsing too, you can do worse than use Chimera.
"I tend to think of OS X as Linux with QA and Taste", James Gosling, creator of Java
The latest version of Galeon (1.2.2) is not source compatible with Mozilla 1.0rc3 - if you're a Galeon user, wait until 1.2.3 before you upgrade your Mozilla version, otherwise you'll break Galeon.
Listening for the sound of the coming rain...
Mozilla simply rules... even over IE...
With all the IE holes, I've been sensing more and more of an anti-IE sentiment. In fact the only browser that I've never heard a truly disparaging remark about (although I have heard honest testaments to its shortcomings) is Opera.
And when I show people Mozilla with disabling pop-ups and tabbed browsing, anti-IE sentiment grows where it never existed before.
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
Holidays for all involved in the release! And about time i would say (i've been in some software releases and i KNOW how ectick the latest days can be)... Cheers...
But far less than Konqueror is built into KDE. ;)
With Win, I can at least set the browser I want to use. I can't figure out how to make KDE apps use anything but Konq, which really annoys me, because Konq is horrid with css.
"To summarise, this bug freezes any keyboard input to mozilla under some circumstances - so its kinda major"
hmmm kinda major ? Depends on the circumstances. If it freezes any keyboard input when it is saturdaymorning, you have 2 socks with different colors on, you twitch with your lefmost toenail and XP becomes OSS, then I don't think you need to worry much...
Well I'm just dreaming here, but combining Sim Ant and the Sims and Sim City and Sim Earth would be pretty damn cool IMO. Being able to take the level of abstraction one wanted... playing with seconds/days/months/years/centuries would be pretty interesting I think... Maybe we could simulate this 'ant going this way, causes artctic drift theory'!
how does one change his
Mayhappen he doesn't want any GBSoD (Graphical Blue Screen of Death)... but as far as i know... the GBSoD are a myth and fud made by Microsoft competitors...
But that is bad trading practices... right?
Cheers...
Damn!! I'm impressed!
RC3 still has zero support for anti-aliased fonts.. This browser is sure to win an award for Best Browser Of The Year in 1996!
Cheers,
Bowie J. Poag
I've been using Charles Upsdell's Browser News for reliable browser stats. According to that site, Mozilla/Netscape/K-Meleon/etc. browsers currently have a 1.1% share of page hits, IE has about 92%, and Netscape 4 about 4%.
What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
I design pages and there is a spacing bug related to images that was introduced sometime after 0.9.9 that I reported.
This affects all platforms. Basically, you will get space around an image that you shouldn't.
Bug is: 22274
since a bug I submit to Bugzilla is marked
as targeted at 1.0.1...
IE may have serious security bug inside, but doesn't have visible bugs in release versions.
Mozilla version 2 will be something like IE 3.
I just want to tell all you Mozilla developers THANK YOU! You have all turned a big pile of mush into a very great work of art, and very great code! I love you all. If you ever make it to Shanghai, beers are on me, as in FREE BEER!!!
Real men don't need signitures!!!
I have just read one page of trolls and flamebait and the usual anti Mozilla responses such as it is bloated, slow, non CSS compliant, buggy, no one uses it, etc.
Consider this:
1. It is the *one* browser that is nearly 100% standards compliant. IE's non-standard standards may be de facto standards in many cases, but those pages on the web that do in fact use those are very small in number and are usually on websites which are not heavily frequented, Microsoft's own pages being the exception to prove the rule.
2.If you use Quick Launch with Mozilla, it loads part of itself into memory and then starts up about as fast as IE does.
3.It is the *one* browser that renders pages in the same manner across all supported platforms. IE does not do this for example between the mac and Windows. Opera is one version behind on the Mac and it remains to be seen when they get to 6 there.
4.It is, in my experince, more stable than IE on Win and Mac. I experience fewer crashes with the latest RC's than I do with IE on Win and mac.
5.It is definitely more secure than IE. It has it's security bugs, but in no way as many as IE does.
6.You can have an influence in the way this browser is developed. Do you have the same influence with IE or even Opera for that matter?
If Netscape dies, Mozilla will carry on.
7.For those who say that the browser share market belongs to IE, I say let's look again in a year. Netscape used to own the market and lost it because of Microsoft's tactics and a poor product that was less standards compliant than IE. This could change again.
8.For those who troll that Mozilla is only at 1.0RC3 and in one year has only gotten here from a 0.9 version, perhaps you should realise that the Mozilla developers are not in a competition for version numbers with IE. Netscape plays this game and has released version 7.
All that said, you're free to use whichever browser you like best on your platform.
And even then it's as quick as anything else on your PC? You gotta be using slow software. :)
Opera [opera.com] has -great- rendering speed. And tabbed browsing which I love
Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
People who started using the Internet before IE don't mind Netscape and would go back for a previous version. Most of the world see IE bundled with Windows, compared Netscape 4.77 with IE5 and say "IE is better", and don't recognize that Netscape could possibly change.
Add one part Mozilla and shake.
The sort of people who would use IE over Netscape because they had a bad experience with Netscape around 4.77 will be impressed with Mozilla, and they don't even need to know that it is based on Netscape! I installed Netscape 7 preview yesterday, which for most people may as well have been a Mozilla skin. Additions: IM, which closes when the browser closes and isn't important in a business environment, and no menu option to remove all those AOL popups.
We don't need to wait for Mozilla 1.0 so Netscape 7 can come out and compete with IE; when Moz hits 1.0, we should be pitting Mozilla against IE. It doesn't feel signifigantly different, but there are improvements that grow on you quickly - tabbed browsing, being able to selectively disable Javascript - which make people stand up and watch. Netscape will have as many ads and links to AOL in it as IE has to Micrsoft. Mozilla is infinitely more pure! And when the last few bugs are ironed out, I'll look forward to seeing what new innovations the crew have in store. (Remember, as far as most people are concerned, all that changed between IE4 and IE6 was the loading logo and the widgets if you're using XP.)
That, and maybe Mozilla could end up being the application that make people think "Wow, that open source community aren't so bad after all."
...and once I even saw Opera render a page properly.
At the risk of starting an entire thread on browser stats:
- MSIE 73%
- Galeon 6%
- Mozilla 5 5%
And Mozilla3, Googlebot, Mozilla 4.x, OmniWeb and Opera each have less than one percent.
Of course, most visitors to my site come looking for Windows software, so those figures may be a little skewed in favour of windows browsers...
The stats themselves
Mozilla RC3 ?
1.0 is already on Kazaa !
Well, the bug is classified as severity "major" and has 79 votes saying it needs to be fixed...
easiest way to replicate (windows only dun forget):
open mozilla from desktop/quicklaunch icon
minimize
open mozilla from desktop/quicklaunch icon again
FROZEN
the Linux and win32 builds are supper fast in comparison to the Seamonkey days, and as fast as IE at least, and thats on my Celeron500, even faster of course are Galeon (GTK) and K-Meleon (win32) both based on the same mozilla rendering engine.
Software Freedom Day!.
After another pop-up hell day with IE, I decided to give Mozilla a try. I must say, not bad at all. Although it's a bit slower than IE, the javascript options are great. Now let's hope it runs stable.
Of course, disabeling pop-ups is theft, because everything on the internet is so cheap because of the ads. I wonder how long it will take them to figure that out.
Be wary of any facts that confirm your opinion.
As an open source/free software devotee I'd love to believe that Mozilla 1.0 is ready for prime time so that I can recommend it to everyone.
Let's stop pretending. It's still buggy as hell. On Windows 2000 Pro I can't even enter an e-mail address manually within composer sometimes. The Open Web Location box often opens malformed with no entry box and the browser always loses focus when opening a web page, which means you have to keep clicking the page before you can scroll with the down arrow.
The versions for Linux are, in my experience, even buggier. On Mandrake I have trouble getting any of the Mozilla keyboard shortcuts to work reliably.
With pinball theme it looks much nicer than with too big classic theme. Also finally I can switch javascript support and pop-ups on and off by one mouse click with this preference toolbar tool. Tabbed browsing is also great feature. New rc3 starts up and loads pages as fast as explorer. With all these additional features and equal performance with windows native browser I can finally honestly recommend using mozilla.
hopey
You know the OS X has this nice little feature calles "Location" (Apple -> Location), which allows you to switch on the fly from one network to another. Now I use my personal iBook as well as on my home network (with Firewall/NAT) as on the corporate network (with proxy). The Location "applet", allows you to specify the proxies to use (or not to use) when on a certain network. Nifty, eh? Well I love it.
However there is only ONE browser that fetches this information and that is Internet Explorer. Why? Why? Why? Opera doesn't do it, Mozilla doesn't check it nor Chimera does. I consider all these browsers superior to IE 5.5 You always have to set the proxy information manually! I don't want to do this. Why do I have to change the preferences of the browser when I start it up on another network?
I can understand this under Linux (no central place to get proxies), or under Windows because it has no nifty "location" feature (a central place is there, if the INTERNEL.CPL applet counts).
Sorry, but *this* is my biggest issue with Non-IE browsers on Mac. (Posting from Moz RC2 on Mac OS X...btw)
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/fonts/unix/enablin g_truetype.html
In Netscape 7 rc1 there is a "Landscape" button in print preview. Margin controls, too.
How much has this browser costed to develop? Anyone who knows?
From what I know, this hasn't been a really resource-effective project. Compare the costs with Opera and Konqueror.
It did actually get alot better in version 6... but some pages, and I've encountered one (-1-), doesn't render properly. And for the defence... It renders more pages properly than Netscape 4.x :)
Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
As far as I remember, clicking "view image" on the right click menu in Netscape 4.x would open the image in the whole window (and not show it inside the page, as done in MSIE). Mozilla has the same behaviour when it comes to this menu item.
Bill Gates Has No Penis.
As stated somewhere else it's already included. Maybe you should set up your linux and read some howtos before complaining. FUI I've run with anti-aliased fonts on my mozilla since 0.9.9, when I found out it was possible. One reason I could think of, why mozilla doesn't support aa fonts on your system is that you need the damned true-type fonts. That's what did the trick for me. Why doesn't mozilla supply these? Because it isn't their responsibillity. In short: RTFM
------- I fumbled my registration and I now must suffer
Why would I have to write AA support into the application? Isn't that a OS feature? Am I missing something?
Get it to run natively on OpenBSD, and it will be the best browser arround, because we all know that OpenBSD is the best OS arround :)
There isn't much like the scent of a fresh harddisk
You are joking I hope? Unless you have a SERIOUSLY broken version of... well.. ANY other browser, there's just no way Moz/NS6/7 are "as snappy" as any of the other players.
Maybe your 950 duron is super-quick, but on a dual 1ghz P3 it's still horrifyingly bad. Actions as simple as resizing the browser window result in screen corruption as it fails to reflow fast enough to keep up with the mouse. The Javascript/DHTML performance is beyond bad - STILL - in my own tests (I use DHTML heavily) it runs simple loops at less than 5% of the speed of Explorer. When moving layers on the screen IE outpaces it by such a wide margin it's not even funny. Need an example? try this with IE then NS/Moz. Bear in mind that is just raw Javascript speed, the DHTML performance is much much worse.
I'm no MS lover - I want to see Moz succeed, but lying about its performance is not going to help anyone, and may just turn new users off: "Hey, I was told Netscape 6 was an upgrade from IE5, but it sucks!" is something I've heard from 2 people. From what I've seen of NS7, it's still no better, and neither is Moz. It's fine as an HTML/CSS only browser, but if you try to push it, there's nothing there.
Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
Mozilla/NS6 have about 1% market share (+/-0.5%). It's actually lower than Navigator 4.
It's a bit depressing, but I still hope that the numbers will increase.
And that browser (NS 4.x) is how old?
Chris
Right now, Mozilla 1.0 Release Candidate 3 looks really good! :-)
:-( I'm a fan of old Disney animated movies and a regular visitor to Disneysites.com, a major discussion board for Disney fans. Unfortunately, the way Mozilla 1.0 RC2 and RC3 formats bBulletin pages causes NO display of bulletin board messages (it just displays top and bottom banner ads on the page only). I checked this against IE 6.0 and IE 6 displays all pages on Disneysites.com's vBulletin BBS correctly.
Well, except for one little problem: some web-based messaging systems using Jelsoft's vBulletin doesn't display correctly.
Looks like I'll report the bug to Bugzilla and also contact the Disneysites.com webmaster about the problem. They'll have to know, especially when Netscape 7.0 and the next version of the AOL software is released.
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
I think that is a very good post; comprehensive and to the point.
I'd mod it up had I not wasted my moderator points on some crap...
I'll say this: mozdev.org is great!
Not only did it explain how to set up various plugin programs to work with Mozilla 1.0 RC builds, but also has a lot of great explanations on other aspects of Mozilla 1.0. Whoever runs this page is a genius.
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
But to run Galeon you have to have mozilla installed
so thats more disc space uesd
lol OH NO! No 20 MEGA-bytes od space used. Whatever shall I do!
Ummm...does this minor amount of space really matter on any system built in the last 7 years?
I mean I was horrified that Wing Commander II used 5MB of drive space. But at the time that was 1/4 of the drive space on my 20MB 386 notebook's HDD.
Once more unto the breach dear friends...
I'm sure you already know this, but just to clarify the matter, Mozilla has tabbed browsing too.
++ Say to Elrond "Hello.".
Elrond says "No.". Elrond gives you some lunch.
This is the kind of stuff I love reading on slashdot- informative little tips that make me all googly-eyed over free software.
That is the coolest shortcut since tabbed browsing.
microsoftword.mp3 - it doesn't care that they're not words...
Read this document to find out why the spaces appear and what you can/should do to fix it. Nobody said standards compliance wouldn't hurt.
Which counter? Is it widely used (ie. in large commercial sites)?
The Speedy Viking
I'm running Mozilla 1.0 Release Candidate 3 under Windows 98 (original release with all Microsoft patches installed).
I have to say that the Mozilla developers really need to take a bow for four long years of hard work and taking a lot of abuse. It is now an impressively fast browser with pretty accurate page rendering; one really nice thing is that the Mail and Newsgroups module has finally got rid of a lot of the quirks that made the Messenger module in Netscape Communicator 4.x releases a major pain to use.
Now, I hope Netscape ships Netscape 7.0 in three versions: 1) Base install, which is the web browser and Mail/Newsgroup reader module only; 2) Standard install, which adds JRE 1.4 and Flash 6.0 to the Base install; and 3) Complete install, which adds AIM, ICQ and RealOne to the Standard install.
Raymond in Mountain View, CA
This is completely bogus. I am currently typing
this from the first release candidate on a 550Mhz
win32 machine. On my machine, mozilla is faster
than IE on about 75% of all the web pages I have
tried, and slower, but only marginally, on the
other 25%. I know because I tried this out with
our local MS lover. I don't see any problems
with resizing the windows, javascript etc.
I don't know where you are coming from,
but I seriously doubt that your intentions are sincere.
Magnus.
What's the status of this vulnerability?
Basically, it allows reading any given local file and browsing through the local folder tree in Mozilla -- the site mentions 1.0RC1 was tested and affected, it hasn't been updated since then.
It was discovered on the 30th of March, Netscape was informed on the 24th of April, and hadn't acknowledged the security researchers' notification within six days, so it was made public. (Cue flame war about MS's security woes...)
Pretty nasty... anyone with the new build care to test it?
<!-- DHTML / JavaScript menu, popup tooltip, Ajax scripts -->
This is not intended as flamebait by any means, but does anyone know what sort of browser share Mozilla/Netscape have?
While not hard numbers, check out the Google Zeitgeist, which has graphs of both the types of browsers visiting Google and the OS used.
Netscape 4 has been on a steady decline for the last year: it's well below all of MSIE 5, 5.5 and 6- totalling those 3 would indicate that Netscape 4's share is pretty minimal. Mozilla isn't even broken out: it's lumped with "Other".
No idea of the exact algorithm used to determine this, so it's always possible folks have altered their browser ID string to mimic IE to fool sites that won't work otherwise.
(One other neat observation: note that the % of searches in English has been steadily dropping for the past year. The web is becoming more global by the day.)
"Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
I AM, therefore I THINK!
I've been wondering about this bug since RC1...it has happened on both my Windows and Linux machines. In my opinion it's a fairly major bug, since it you have to restart the browser to correct it (and if you have quicklaunch open you have to close that as well). It's bitten me in the ass numerous times (down to the wire eBay bidding being the most annoying and costly) and I would love to see it fixed.
I ran it about 18 months ago on a NCD 14b(mono 1024x768).
It was debian/stable and the corresponding mozilla of the time.
The same behavoir can be reproduced with:
...using the procedure you described. But be sure
to not have a "HOME" website that opens a popup window.
Netscape 7.0 Preview Release 1
Plus, you can still do stupid things with locks and totally throw away your advantage.
Case in point: I myself did a benchmark of Samba on a vendor's Unix vs. SMB on NT 4.0 SP3 a few years back (on the same hardware, duh). (It wasn't quite formal enough to publish, we didn't get written permission from ZD Labs, etc. etc., you know the drill, but I did spend a month on it.) We outperformed NT by a factor of 2 under fairly high loads (~30 workstations on 3 sublans hitting the server as hard as they could). How could that be, when SMB was a kernel process on NT, but Samba was a user process on our Unix? My only explanation (apart from the possibility that I fucked up the benchmark [pretty small, I had some assistance from our local gurus]) is that NT/SMB do some stupid locking things in the kernel and slow themselves down.
So, the kernel ain't magic.
John.
For Chimera's defense: Internet Explorer is very bad at refetching it too... I can live with closing the browser, but not with changing the settings. My point still stands for Opera (if they add this feature, I buy it...you read this Opera guys?) and Mozilla however.
Oh, by the way: why isn't Lynx provided with Mac OS X, I just wondered if it would be there and it isn't. They provide emacs and vi (I will never use emacs, and use vi all the time), but not a fancy textbrowser? Lynx has saved my butt a lot of times, especially when installing a Linux machine and having trouble with the XFree config.
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
For Linux to ship some decent fonts so we can actually read the webpages rendered by Mozilla.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
I love Mozilla and use it exclusively at work, but I still have to say, that it's somewhat bloated (it got much better, but it's still bad). This bloat is not bad code or lazy programmers, but by design. A Product that works exactly the same on all platform has to be either very small or bloated. Mozilla has choosen to go the second way. They build an entire Toolkit with an XML-UI-Description language. This Toolkit works on Windows, Solaris, Linux, MacOS (Classic), Mac OS X, HP-UX, FreeBSD, QNX, BeOS and <insert-your-favourite-OS-here-except-if-it-is- CP/M>. This is very, very hard to do in a small & non-bloated way. Luckily I have a sufficiently fast PC to be able to use it nevertheless, the only time the Mozilla-Bloat still hits me is after long periods of not using Mozilla (see http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=76831 for details).
At least a few Mozilla programmers apparently are losing a whole lot of sleep trying to get 1.0final out the door. Take a look at bug 110112 comment 62 (paste the link to avoid the slashdot ban):
1 12 #c62
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=110
Synopsis: there are various crashes and freezes when using the "ask me before loading an image" option. In a bad imitation of Solomon's judgement, they decided to stop the crashes by eliminating the option.
Try "Page Setup" from the "File" menu.
There is a bug (in the windows version, although the release notes only note it in the Linux version) that might confuse you if you come across it.
If you have a customised user agent and the java plugin installed, make sure it contains the string "Mozilla/4.0", otherwise you won't be able to start up Mozilla.
Apparently the user agent is passed to the plug-in, and it doesn't know how to handle unknown user-agents (actually it tries to handle them as Netscape 3 and then crashes). Something (in your prefs.js) like:
user_pref("general.useragent.override", "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98;)");
should do the trick.
Many warm thanks to you guys!
I'm using Lotus Notes R5 webmail and the menu system used to crash the older versions of Netscape 6 and Mozilla. It works fine now.
Once again, warm thanks to all of you in the team.
-- From Denmark
In recent nightly builds going back a few weeks now I have noticed a problem with displaying some images.
" cannot be displayed, because it contains errors.
eg. on mozilla main page I do not see the main logo only the alt text. When I right click and choose "View Image" I get the message
The image "http://www.mozilla.org/images/mozilla-banner.gif
This has continued with RC3
On Windows boxes, I have noticed that since the RC2 Release Mozilla has become much faster than IE in every category except Jave applets. Even then the difference is minimal.
Another problem with Mozilla that was cleared up since RC2 is plug-in support. Flash and Java were both working perfectly with little hassle (no more hassle than IE) in RC3.
I think I found my new favorite browser. I was very sceptical about Mozilla being able to out-do IE but it happened, and it happened with an eye on security too.
Good going Mozilla crew.
...And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me." - Martin Niemoeller (1892-1984)
When I add a doctype to my pages, mozilla doesn't seem to pick up on the style sheet.
It works fine if I comment out this line in my perl script. Any thoughts? It works fine in IE, so I don't think it's a server issue, but it might be.
Also, does anyone know when the site navigation toolbar went away? i loved that thing.
because the style sheets have parameters that are not supported by the native widget sets. So if you want to support all of the standard, you have to write your own widget set.
What Mozilla does with XUL is use that widget set for all of the browser, not just the web pages.
Google has some information. Netscape 6+/Mozilla is too insignificant to register in its own category.
Off-topic aside: when I go to google.com, it redirects to google.ca (hence my link). Google's up to something. They don't know my geographical location from any cookie information, etc as this is a clean install of Mozilla 1 RC3.
I have liked Mozilla for a long time because of it's feature set, but as of this release the Mac OS X port is VERY FAST to resize windows and reflow text. I never thought I would say it-- but Mozilla is faster than IE on my box at work- a 500 MHz G4. I could not be happier!
"Politicians find new names for institutions which under old names have become odious to the people."
This is what happens when your website design values "looking cool" over "being useful". Flashy sites (especially FLASH-y sites) may be more fun for the creator, but they all present serious user interface problems and make things extraordinarily difficult for people who had a reason to come to the site in the first place.
I guess I get kinda weary with the all-too-common notion that things are always going to be the way they are today.
.NET to be a raging success (just like the XBox), with millions of (l)users willingly ponying up annual subscription fees to use their PCs. Myself, I figure that before that happens, millions will abandon PC-based email for cellphone-based email -- all we need to dethrone IE is a viable alternative that is sufficiently attractive to the masses.
If market-dominating products persisted in this state due to inertia, or herd behavior, or whatever, then we would still be using Apple IIs, or TRS-80s, or IBM PCs, or CP/M, or Lotus 1-2-3, or WordStar.
Times changes, things change, fashions change.
Bill Gates is acutely aware that Microsoft does not have any lock on the future, it's why he fights so fiercely to hang onto nearly all of the marbles.
If we learn anything from history, its that he won't succeed. Either the crumbs of the marketplace that he does not own will grow into something unimaginable, or some totally unrelated technology will replace the existing computing segment of the economy.
No rational person believes that 10 years from now we will be using systems and software that are just like the ones today, only fatter and faster.
Change happens. Watch for it. Making informed choices is the best way to surf the waves of change.
Just because we're stuck today with IE owning nearly all the browser usage amongst the computing illiterati, is no reason to expect it will be that way forever.
I suppose you also expect
So long as things like Mozilla/Netscape7, Opera, Konqueror, etc, continue to be developed, there is the possibility that they may catch the public fancy and pose a serious threat to IE.
When I come across a site that doesn't work in Mozilla, I always send a note to the links I can find. E.g. Movietickets.com wouldn't work in Mozilla. I experimented and was able to lie to the site through Mozilla that I was using IE and the site would work. I sent many emails about the issue and now the site works without problems for Mozilla.
The other site I just had a big fight with was Ofoto.com. They print digital photos etc. There site works perfectly in Mozilla except for a little JavaScript dropdown menu that allows you to edit your photo albums. I sent them the code to fix it and they refused to resolve the issue. I told them that I was running Mozilla on Linux and they responded by saying that they don't support Linux. Seeing that it isn't a Linux issue, the fact is that they don't want to fix their site. I could view the page source, get the URL for the link I wanted on the menu and the page would subsequently work.
Be vigillant people and complain everytime you see little or big bugs.
tjw.org/screen/
/usr/local/mozilla/defaults/pref/unix.js:
Compared are two instances of Mozilla 1.0 RC3. The one on the right is the stock font configuration, the one of the left has hat the following changes made to
pref("font.FreeType2.enable", true);
pref("font.FreeType2.autohinted", true);
pref("font.FreeType2.unhinted", false);
pref("font.scale.aa_bitmap.enable", true);
pref("font.scale.aa_bitmap.always", true);
XJS*C4JDBQADN1.NSBN3*2IDNEN*GTUBE-STANDARD-ANTI-U
you dont need to restart the browser
setting focus on a different application then returning focus to mozilla fixes it
and if it annoys you, sign up to bugzilla and vote for the bug...
maybe if there are more votes for the bug the dev team will realise they cant ship 1.0 with it in
The most needed feature in Mozilla/Netscape is the SVG support. It's quite terrible that it can't be exist yet in the regular binary builds due to only its license, even that there is "other" SVG plugins.
Until now, I saw none of sites with SVG support (not including the SVG demos, SVG tutorials, etc.), which move people to think that "SVG is a bloated SWF clone for wimps", which is completly wrong way of thinking. SWF (Macromedia Flash) is good, but still, it's closed source software, dislike HTML, XML, JPEG, PNG, and others. If sites/companies will have SVG support instead of SWF, which is not a big thing to deal with (I guess there are even today SWF2SVG convertors, with full support for SWF timeline), the web will be much more happier place.
Let's hope for SVG support in the offical 1.O, it's still possible...Does anyone have a working java plugin using Mozilla on Windows? I've installed the latest JRE from Sun and done the trick where you copy the .dll into the plugins folder, but it still doesn't work. Ideas?
My web editor is... notepad... Which is the only editor 100% compliant with all standards
No. Try GNU Emacs for Windows. Notepad (at least the version shipped with Windows 3.1 through ME) doesn't support any character encodings other than Windows-1252 (a variant of ISO-8859-1). Heck, it doesn't even allow editing of text files bigger than 32 KB. Emacs, on the other hand, is fully scriptable, allows editing of huge files, and supports many character encodings.
Will I retire or break 10K?
It very much depends on the site and its target (or found) audience. I run a few smaller sites geared towards Web Tech/Design types and in those arenas I see Gecko based browsers anywhere from 3-10%. On much less targeted stuff, that has a more general audience, I see between 1-2%. Some of these #s are up for your perusal:
placenamehere.com info
chunkysoup.net info
[place
One day, if I live long enough, I may see the light of a new dawn where CowboyNeal is not a standard poll answer. He has a monopoly now, but as you say, things change. </joke>
The Mozilla Project today announced Release Candidate 28, in otherwords version 0.9999999999999999999999999999. The open source community has embraced this project fully and are doing everything in their power to get it released on time.
When asked about the timetable for 1.0 release, they stated "We are definately making progress. Look for it soon! Internet Explorer XXXV will go down in flames!!!".
Mozilla is the open source "clone" of Netscape. Netscape, if you remember, was a pioneer in the early days of WWW browsing. After being bought by AOL-Time Warner, some hoped that the huge cash flow would help the floundering former giant. AOL declared bankruptcy in 2010, bringing down all companies underneath it, including Netscape.
All in all, Mozilla really does look like a promising piece of software if the Mozilla team could actually release version 1.0. Just wishful thinking on my part...
For Mac see Fizilla: or, for the boring, "Mozilla for MacOS X" http://www.mozilla.org/ports/fizzilla/
Actually, the two Fizillas are simply carbon Mozillas. For a Gecko-based browser with OS X's look and feel, you should download Chimera, a Cocoaized Mozilla-based browser. Chimera I think is a browser-only version, as is mozilla/browser (for Windows; don't have a URI).
It's better to file a Tech Evangelism bug in Bugzilla for sites that don't work. That way, the Mozilla team can track these sites and offer technical assistance to make them standards compliant.
What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
You can't do any page layout with CSS-defined scrolling in Opera. overflow:scroll and overflow:auto don't work - try it and you'll get text falling out of your css-defined text block instead of the automatic generation of scrollbars from Mozilla. Even IE5 and IE6 do that ok - to my mind it's a major failing in Opera. And I like Opera.
I had to redesign pages that I had wanted to do with pure CSS layout rather than tables and frames in order to get independent sections with their own overflow scrolling. They were absolutely fine in IE and Mozilla.
I've looked at the Bugzilla reports, and done some google searches...
How the hell do I disable HTML rendering in the email client? There should be a bloody option for this! It's still not in RC3.
Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The latest version for Solaris is Release Candidate 1. Does anyone know why they skipped both RC2 & RC3? (Maybe RC3 will be out soon, and I'm just impatient :)
I use Mozilla as my primary browser on Linux & Windows (On a Celeron 366 with 512Mb of ram), and it's great.
Mozilla on Solaris is about 10 times slower then Netscape 4.7 at everything except rendering an HTML page. On a Sparc 266 with 512 Mb or ram, Mozilla takes 20 seconds to start up, mouseclicks usually take 1+ second to respond,
etc. It needs alot of work to be usable.
And I can't get Mozilla or Galeon to compile, so I'm stuck with released version.
"Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
See Bug 28327, Bug 30888, Bug 69529.
Why should I add another one?
Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
Google's Zeitgeist should give you a good idea of what the different browsers' market shares are. Mozilla, Netscape 6, Opera, Konquerer, etc all fall under "Other" unless they're spoofing their browser identification.
Monday is a horrible way to spend 1/7 of your life.
Thanks for the link. Obviously many /.ers use Google - Natalie Portman is the #1 search term for the month!
--
E_NOSIG
I don't know about that bug, but I've found that js-intensive sites tend to crash Mozilla about half the time (no crashdump, it just keels over and dies). Overall, it is even less stable than NS4.74 and that's not saying much. :(
Which is a shame because Moz is faster and overall less-annoying than any NS since the 4.0x era, and leaps and bounds faster than IE6 on the same machine.
Tho I *still* prefer NS3.04 for sheer utility. Maybe I'll try KMeleon now that I tracked down a working download link.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Why ask how to do something when you already know perfectly well that there are open bugs on the feature? IHBT!
What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
What's funny is the people on deviantart hate netscape, but love mozilla.
Remember that Opera and Konqueror (and probably a few others as well) are _very_ often set up masking themselves as IE.
This increases their market share quite a bit.
Ah...okay, so I have to use curl instead of wget. I was trying to figure that one out too. Never heard of curl before but the command is recognised! :-) I'm still too used to Linux, I must be a bad OS X user.
Anyways, isn't emacs GPL too? So why is that one included?
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
I am quite surprised that neither mozillazine nor mozillanews have done a story on mb (mozilla/browser) yet, i saw in one the developers blogs (cannot remeber which maybe mpt). There is not much information to be found about it yet, it does not help that google returned mozilla-browser even when i used the advanced search to specify exact phrase *sigh*.
l ab rowser_download.html#comments
for those who dont know Mozilla/Browser aka mb
is the new browser only Mozilla project with a slightly differnt interface (i dont know the details i have not actually used it myself)
Here is a relevant link from Blogzilla, a blog about Mozilla:
http://www.deftone.com/blogzilla/archives/mozil
I think it's best to start by sending the site an e-mail. If that doesn't work, file a Tech Evang bug and say that you already tried e-mailing the owner of the site. The Tech Evang team doesn't have time to help fix every broken site on the Web, so the more you can get fixed by yourself, the better.
The shareholder is always right.
In the cases where this is skewing reports it is the reporting tool that is at fault in almost all cases. For example, Opera often reports itself as:
Opera/6.01 (Windows 98; U) [en]
or, when masking like:
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Linux 2.4.18-lomo i686) Opera 6.0 [en]
The latter case is just as easy to detect properly as Opera, however i have seen some tools out there that consider the latter as IE instead.
As for "quite a bit" I would hardly call 2% total even a small dent, considering the unscientific way these numbers are gathered in the first place.
[place
What he said is that he wants a native Mozilla.... I use the gecko based browsers, and they feel nothing like mozilla.. they don't have the features, etc. Think Opera... It's multiplatform, but it's interface is rendered natively on each platform that I've used.
Use the Z-modem protocol between Information Superhighway routers to compress the plaintext. ~LordOfYourPants
It's fast at simple pages. But try saving a 300 comment nested view slashdot page locally, and then view that in Opera or Mozilla. Opera will take _much_ longer to render that page than Mozilla or IE (Mozilla is the undisputed king of rendering speed - it's the interface that's sluggish)
--Giving to trolls for the benefit of us all
Been using RC3 for about an hour... First thing in its favor is JAVA SUCCESFULLY INSTALLED! I couldn't get it to on 0.9.9 no matter what I did. It installed on RC3 without a hitch and so far things seem stable, fast, everything I expected from an improved version of 0.9.9. Mozilla is clearly the top browser on Linux. Konqueror... well... simply sucks for web browsing... Great for browsing your hard drive and useful when going through local HTML docs and on the web, but for strict web browsing, Mozilla is tops on Linux. Great job, finally Netscapes source code opening is showing something.
You may want to keep around the install for RC1. . . I have trouble with RC2 and RC3's popups etc.
For example, when I click on a page that has a popup window with content in it (a requested popup) it doesn't show up.
I also chose "Allow Javascript to Open Unrequested Windows" too, still no dice.
Anyone else have these problems?
Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that, I'll be over here, looking through your stuff.
With apologies to Willian Shakespeare
My Mozilla's Icons are nothing like the IE;
China is far more red than her licence red;
If button mean down, why then she come back up?
If html be wires, broken wires jut one of her rendering engine;
I have seen webpages advertising other browsers;
But no such promotions I see in her windows;
And in some MS java there is more delight;
Than in the broken applets that from my browser reeks;
I love to browse her tabs, yet well I know
That Netscape 7 hath a far more pleasing interface;
I grant I never saw OS X though;
My Mozilla, when she browsers, slumps through links;
And yet, by Linux, I think my browser as rare
As any I belied with false compare;
I stole this Sig
The anti-netscape sentiment present at deviantart.com is caused by 12-16 year old users that don't even realize that it was IE repeatedly breaks standards, and that mozilla/netscape is trying to fix that. Many at devart say that it is netscape that is breaking standards, and that they have to rewrite websites because of this. This is a good example of the brainwashing that Microsoft has performed. I cannot believe the amount of ignorance present at deviantart as evidenced by the Netscape post. We probably need to evangelize to the younger generations that have never used anything but IE.