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Home-built 747 Simulator
James Morris writes: "This is a cool hack: some guy is building a 747 simulator in his backyard." This is one of the most impressive even while in progress, but the other projects linked from this site set a tough standard.
Oh yeah, this guy can expect a visit from the FBI any day now!
iRepairIT - iPhone, Mac, & PC Repair
*already slashed*
Sydney, Australia
UPDATED 15/04/2002
WELCOME
The approximate size of the simulator is 13ft wide x 11ft long and 9ft high.
It will include every switch and panel in the 747-400
Built to accept full motion and visuals at a later date.
This is a Ten year project.
6 years to go!
Naturally it will be controlled in time by the one and only Precision Simulator
by Aerowinx and Hardy Heinlin
747 SIMULATOR MESSAGE BOARD
PS1 747-400 & FS2000/98 RUNNING ON MY HOME SETUP
PICTURES OF DESIGN
CONSTRUCTION TIME TABLE
FMC KEYBOARD
PREVIOUS PICTURES
THUMBNAILS All pictures so far
LATEST PICTURES And NEWS 15/04/2002
OTHER HOMEBUILT SIMULATORS
LINKS TO OTHER SITES
FLIGHT IN A REAL 747-400 SIMULATOR
WORLD-FLIGHT AUSTRALIA IS A CHARITY EVENT TAKING PLACE IN NOVEMBER 2002
Would you like to help?
Simulator will be based in Sydney Australia
If you have any skills or knowledge that you can share contact me.
mailto:hyway@viper.net.au
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Add your site.
If you have any comments or suggestions, please e-mail me hyway@viper.net.au
Date last updated
15-Apr-2002 08:26
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...so how long until the Feds are also in this guy's backyard making sure that it's not used (or copied) for terrorist training?
(Yes, I know he's in Australia, but when has that stopped them before?)
libertarianswag.com
more links www.flightsim.com
What's he gonna do, practice crashing into an Outback steakhouse?
Guy In Bar: Yeah, so in my free time I'm building the city's largest collection of historical NFL material.
Guy In Bar: Yeah, I'm doing something like that too -- I 'got a 747 simulator in my backyard, workin' on it for almost five years.
Bartender: Sir, I think you've had a little too many. Shall I call a cab?
Who's calling John Ashcroft?
I wonder if this would get the same praise if the 747-simiulator were being built in say, Islamabad instead of Sydney.
NFL Collection: I pay $300 for a card with someone's picture! 747 Sim: I pay $300 to add more functionality to my sim by using my own expertise.
How long until the Feds shut him down for operating a terrorist flight training center..
Google's cache r00lez
Engage!
TERRORISM! TERRORISM! T-E-R-R-O-R-I-S-M! aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. let teh eagle soar!
at least he can save money on simulating the weather
--
The Grid Report
What's with all the comments so far about this being used for terrorist training?? Geeze.. that's like saying "Hey I'm building a computer! The FBI better watch out, I might hack into the DOD mainframe!!"
- This isn't the sig you're looking for. Move along, move along..
I had a guy come in a few weeks ago building a simulator for some large airplane or other,and he was upgrading the system from CRT to flatpanel, we ended up helping him out of the store with 10k in flatpanels, and he said he'd let us test it out when he got it rigged up, (SCORE!) I had pictures of the setup, and it was pretty damn impressive, so I lost them, sorry all.
a bit more about me http://www.advogato.org/person/trelane/ or my private page http://trelane.net
Google/DMOZ has a whole category for this guy and his peers. I especially liked Kev's cockpit, a little How To guide.
When asked why his simulator lacked the ability to deploy landing gear, he replied "I don't really need it."
"Hey Kev, Mr. bin Laden would like to know if he can come over and play"
Some people have a way with words, and some people, um, thingy.
If he ever wanted to build a web server stress simulator, he's got one...
qslack.com
No use blowing some small Aussie ISP out of the water.
mirror will be here for a few days
This sounds so Zen. What's the difference?
what's up with your trollish comments on MS FS
/.
Microsoft's flight simulator is one of the best simulator you could get right now, it's a decent product to say the least.
so sick of you anti-ms trolls... but then again, it's
kawai
Leaked internal MS memo: "Note to Billg: Research surveys show a strong market for a Terrorist Flight Simulator. Make sure we build in software bugs, these customers WANT to see a 'blue screen of death to infidels'.
...but I will. This guy is just looking for trouble!
It'll be funny to see who contacts him first... the terrorists or the FBI...
That's nothing! I'm building a 747 simulator simulator. You get that genuine 747 simulator feeling without the need for an actual 747 simulator! Here's the way it works: I've got a whole bunch of Cessna 172 simulators (that's a small 4-seater) and I've hooked them up into a big Beowulf cluster. With the help of a little Perl script (gotta love Perl!) it simulates a 747 simulator. And not only that, it's a whole lot cheaper.
Or even better, his simulator wasn't running off the same server as the web server.
Actually, you chose a really poor example there. We already did the same thing a week ago on that DRM article. Which is also probably alot closer to the truth than I want to think about.
The guy at http://www.737simguy.com/ (linked off the site in the article) actually built his sim in the severed nose of a real airliner. Now that's dedication to realism.
Must be expensive though...
Behold the Power of Cheese!
26 comments and it's already slashed like a mother. High five, guys! :D
I'm designing a 747 passenger simulator. Basically, it's a set of six chairs crammed too close together with a yammering asshole mannequin in the seat by the window, a 'six-year-old' seat kicking mechanism, and a vague pilot intercom on the ceiling. It'll cost you $400 more than you expect, and pray that it's available to ride the day you show up.
Too bad it's not really theirs, isn't it? They bought that one way back, but the core code is still someone else's.
Besides, he wasn't necessarily bashing the sim app, but rather the underlying OS (it bluescreened). It's hardly trolling, when it is so incredibly true, need I remind you. You're like those guys that paint flame decals on their Pinto, and then get pissed when people laugh. Just because you've deluded yourself into thinking M$ products are good or acceptable, doesn't mean that it's not obvious to us that the idea is ridiculous.
It's 3:30 freaking a.m.... I can't believe this site's slash'ed already!! Get a life people. (Note to self: get a life)
there's a guy in the neighbor with a 767 simulator. on saturday afternoons he and the guy with the WTC simulator from the next block over are usually good for a few laughs.
Sacred cows make the best burgers.
A 747 in the backyard is pretty cool, but I'd much rather have the fighter jet with a beer holder.
My brother was visiting British Aerospace some years back and they had a bunch of Lightnings (old British supersonic fighters -- yes, such things existed :-) sat on an apron. He asked what they were for and was told that they were trade-ins from a sale of Tornadoes (European supersonic fighterish bombers) to Saudi Arabia.
He asked what was going to happen to them, and was told that they were for sale... for one pound each. The condition was that you had to take it away within a week if you bought one. Did they fly? "Well they flew them in here, but they've had the weapons deactivated and they've been sat there rotting a few years." Apparently an ex-BAe fitter who had worked on Lightnings was among the purchasers of the one-pound fighters, and had reworked it so he could, if so inclined, start the engine.
And one other point: this 747 sim is acool story. It's not "Microsoft is shit", nor about software patents or geeks in society. Just some cool borderline-crazy stuff some guy is getting up to. Reminds me of Slashdot in 1997. When I was a lad.
Why build a simulator for a Greyhound Bus when you could build one for a Ferrari?
the pilotless planes everyone's talking about, supposed ot replace all human pilots
It seems the Aerowinx software he's planning to use is based on empirical data from thousands of 747 flights.
Perhaps he should consider X-Plane instead. It derives it's aerodynamics from first principles, and is quite accurate in simulating things that haven't been actually done. You can even get FAA certification from using X-Plane. It's already got the software hooks to drive a motion platform.
Plus you can hack the hell out of it. There's a large community of users with interesting mods.
Hey you stole my joke...I was gonna say something about stopping him from building his terrorist training device...
If Mr. Edison had thought smarter he wouldn't sweat as much. --Nikola Tesla
Just to clarify, the FBI is a department within the US government. Australia is a country.
Reports just in:
Osama bin Ladin is training all new potential Suicide Bombers in-house/cave, with his new home made 747 training simulator.
When asked how he made it, he replied that he found full instructions on the Internet along side the directions for creating your own Nuke, and home made Chemical and Biological Warfare Kit!
-- "To ask a question is to show ignorance; Not to ask a question means you'll remain ignorant."
Does anyone have a mirror? The reason is obvious.
If Mr. Edison had thought smarter he wouldn't sweat as much. --Nikola Tesla
Can you suggest any 'acceptable' flight sim product that is actually better than FS2002 at simulating 747? Or is my mere asking of such a 'stupid' question ridiculous?
now i can fly a 757 into the world trade towers as much as i want!
No I can't. Microsoft made a point to buy up most of the games/software studios that did that in the mid to late 80's. Not that the DOJ would ever go after them for being a "monopoly" in the flight sim market, but it seems they have habits that they just can't get rid of.
You could say that about ANY and EVERYthing! Your PC, Your Car, Your Washing and Cleaning liquids...
Everything in the wrong hands CAN be used for evil. However, treating everyone as a terrorist is worse and is also impractical.
A concerted effort to remove the causes of Terrorism is a far more constructive use of resources.
-- "To ask a question is to show ignorance; Not to ask a question means you'll remain ignorant."
I was building a "Grand theft auto 3" simulator, your honor. Honest.
I noticed this on fm a couple of weeks ago. Looks interesting, and since instrumentation is going all glass anyway (crts or lcds or whatever), eventually one will be able to build a perfectly accurate cockpit using an LCD or three.
http://a340gc.iradis.org/index_en.html
From the site:
The Glass Cockpit Library (libGC) is created for the Airbus A340 Glass Cockpit (a340gc) which is an Open Source project. The a340gc project is part of the Airbus A340 simulator project of the IRADIS Foundation. The goal of libGC and a340gc is to create a free framework that can be used to build a glass cockpit upon.
Hmmm, that new Matrox card might come in handy.
Why limit yourself to an 747 simulator when you could build your own X-Wing cockpit, load up an old copy of LucasArt's X-Wing or the more recent X-Wing Alliance and experience the closest thing to destroying the Death Star. For the complete experience you could even dress up as an X-Wing pilot.
Surprisingly no one seems to have done this already, at least according to a quick Google search I did beforehand. You could also do something similiar in terms of a Pod Racer like the arcade game by Sega that was around a few years ago, as there is that Pod Racing game which Lucas Arts put out.
aus.music.scrapbook
Really? I'm a die-hard flightsim fan that has played Flight Simulator since FS2 on Apple IIe and every version since - the old SubLogic ones, ATP, the MS FS-series (=what the SubLogic ones were called after MS bought them), all of them. Throughout the years, there's been other sims; A320, Pro Pilot, Flight Unlimited, X-Plane, the Chuck Yeager sim (I forget the exact name) and Fly! come to mind. None of these have died because Microsoft would have bought them or used dirty tactics. Flight Simulator has always won on its own merits and continues to do so.
Fly! comes relatively close in many aspects but the graphics engine in FS2002 is still WAY ahead. Even FS2000 beats the Fly! II graphics engine! Then there's the extensibility. MS gives out SDK's and tools for its sim so people can make their own planes, sceneries and add-ons for it - such as multiplayer systems like Squawkbox, GPS and FMS systems, flight planners, etc. Then there's scenery accuracy. Then there's flight model accuracy and just plain usability and playability. And quality. Sorry, but while Microsoft may be evil and is eating children and pissing in your cornflakes, you can't deny that Microsoft has produced a kick ass sim that is competing fair and square. To try to deny Microsoft the credit for it just because the really, really, really early versions were based on SubLogic's code is just retarded. So much has changed since then in the engine that there can't be ANYTHING left really.
Then of course, there's the fact that being a monopoly isn't illegal, contrary to popular belief so the DOJ wouldn't go after them even if they DID have a monopoly in flight sims. Even theoretically.
If you want to see the history of this project , and a non slashdotted version of the side , have a look at http://web.archive.org/web/*/www.hyway.com.au/747/ 747.htm
Cruise TT
A concerted effort to remove the causes of Terrorism is a far more constructive use of resources
You don't get it. The government is losing the battle of public opinion over the drug war, so they need a new FUD machine to keep the people scared. No one wants to treat the causes in cases like these, their jobs depend on treating the symptoms, and never actually making any real headway, just like the drug war.
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
You are either dumb, or the most brilliant troll to grace slashdot's commentary. Honestly.
You had for the first two lines, if I had had mod points, you would have been modded up before I read the third. How? Are you some kind of idiot savant, that can say something brilliant one moment, and then something utterly retarded the very next? Or was this some ingenious scheme of yours, to take the crown of trolldom?
They're gonna mod me down to -1 on this, but it needs to be said.
There is much rhetoric about how we should spend more money on "curing the disease and not the sympton". In general, such a principle sometimes means the person saying it is just a little less dim than the person next to him. But in this case, it is nothing more than a blatant case of cliche-mongering. Islamic terrorism (and by no means do I mean all muslims are terrorists, or that there are not other flavors of terrorism) is an incredibly complex social phenomena, hidden beneath layers and layers of political faction-meistering, diplomatic bullshit, and danger to human life. Very few researchers can even get near the subject, and those that do are threatened and/or ignored. But even then, there is something that is obvious to those who care to try understanding this.
There is no single cause, nor small set of causes, that we might reduce or stifle, that could prevent terrorism in a meaningful way. Nada, nothing. It is like asking what truly causes a nice summer day... lots of things, is the answer. Insanely complex weather and climate patterns build up over periods of time going back to the birth of our planet, all interlocking, dependent on each other, and chaotic in a mathematical way. What can we do to prevent a nice summer day? Not much. No amount of money, effort or willpower will do it.
But if I'm wrong, and there is some simple answer that my tiny little brain can't wrap itself around, why hasn't anyone ever said so in a public way? Why don't you?
Wanna know how you can get rid of this sort of terrorism? I'll tell you how, but with one caveat. It's not something that I could do, or be part of. It's something that I would protest to the point of being thrown in prison for treason or something. And undoubtedly, it's something that you aren't even willing to read all the way through.
We simply wipe them out.
Not like Bush did, tossing a few smart bombs here and there. No, we nuke every living thing in Afghanistan. We bribe China, if necessary, so they don't get pissy about it. Then we move on down the line. Iran, Iraq. Egypt. Libya. And then, for a finale, we obliterate Saudi Arabia. We leave nothing alive. Especially Mecca. We make sure that only cockroaches can survive the pilgrimage. Of course, we'll have to send our own muslims to internment camps, but that's nothing we haven't done before. Maybe we'd even build them a "Mecca USA" and put political pressure on the religious leaders to start pitching that, or else. And of course, irradiated petroleum isn't very cool, so we'd have to have an alternative for it. But this, this would prevent terrorism.
Terrorists, by their nature, are impossible to stop. There are no limiting factors to their behavior. Not even their own religion is a limiting factor, a mullah that would denounce terrorism and plead with them to not commit such, would be viewed as weak, and unwilling to do Allah's work. Even if Binladen did so himself, some miraculous change of heart, most of his followers would splinter off, and continue this.
We, on the other hand, have many such limiting factors. For instance, we (hopefully) would never perform the actions I detailed above, that would fix the situation. We're susceptible to diplomatic pressures. We like our oil too much. We have ethical concerns. In other words, we're fucked.
Please, if you have any grand insights, on how to remove the causes, reply to this. If nothing else, I'll find it entertaining.
So where is the DMCA and the Patriot Act arguing that this is a danger to society?
This is a cool hack: some guy is building a 747 simulator in his backyard.
Is he a terrorist?
Why ?
That's what's really needed. New MM sims for them are in the pipeline.
given what happened to the China Airlines
747 yesterday. Or should I post a joke
saying "does it include a random number generator
sparking an explosion in the fuel tanks "?
Google passes Turing test : see my journal
Jacques Villeneuve has a complete F-1 (race car) simulator built into his yacht. Millions of Canadian dollars went into it. It features hydraulics that give the sensation of cornering, etc. It can replicate any F-1 circuit in the world and smells a lot like a PS2.
mirror
My workplace firewall is blocking this, so it has to wait til I go home.
But, I have a sneaking suspicion that it's a "jews eat muslim babies, and the US bankrolls the dinner utensils" story. You'll have to do better than that.
If the US Gov./FBI come over there, the Australians/British will tell them to f*ck off. Well - maybe not the British seeing as Tony is in love with Bush.. well maybe in fact, seeing as Bush dumped him for that Russian guy.. yeah, i think Tony's pretty pissed off at the moment. Anyway, it sure is a good thing that other countries have nukes too, otherwise the USA _would_ be rulers of the world, and making 747-simulators in your back-yard would be illegal everywhere.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Meanwhile:
Your tax dollars at work
I think this kind of thing is great - showing people that "multi-million dollar technology" can be emulated at home is always something I've been interested in. Again, this proves a little ingenuity is worth a lot more than money. I eagerly await the backyard battleship and tank simulators :).
You don't get it. The government is losing the battle of public opinion over the drug war, so they need a new FUD machine to keep the people scared.
There are a few lined up. Consider the neat timing of discovering the body of Ms Levy, just as some embarrasing questions are asked of Mr Bush.
No one wants to treat the causes in cases like these, their jobs depend on treating the symptoms, and never actually making any real headway, just like the drug war.
Assuming the people supposedly opposing it are not actually involved in keeping it going. Which has certainly been the case in the "war on drugs".
Flight Sim Cockpits are becoming a popular thing among FS junkies. I admit, I'm one of "them".
Most of the sim cockpits are of large jets. Many flight simmers fly these things, including military jets, because they're fun and they'll never have the opportunity to fly one in real life. With today's computing power, one can build an incredibly realistic simulation.
I recently started thinking about building a full scale 737 cockpit after purchasing the Dreamfleet 737-400 for simulation. (www.dreamfleet2000.com). The DF737 is the most realistic 737 simulation available for flight sim. I located some good cockpit building information, and even a source of replica panels.
www.a-g-t.com has replica panels of an F-16, F-18, Airbus A320, Airbus A340, Boeing 737, Boeing 747, Boeing 777.
A good source of information is www.projectmagenta.com. Project Magenta was started in the interest of making "Glass Cockpits". In a modern big jet, there aren't likely to be guages for the primary flight instruments. These have been replaced with computer screens. Because glass cockpits are real, and computer screens are easily available to simmers, new modern jets become easy to simulate with 3 or 4 computer monitors embedded beneath the simulated flightdeck. Projectmagenta.com has pics illustrating what I'm talking about.
The only thing keeping me from building my 737 cockpit is money. I'm about to dump a bunch of money into a kit plane and go flying for real. Perhaps the 737 simulator will come afterward.
Even with real flight, I'll stick around in flight sim (as many pilots do) because I love the big jets!
Skiers and Riders -- http://www.snowjournal.com
The original "flight simulator" was created by a guy named Bruce Artwick under the name SubLOGIC in 1979. In the early 1980's, Microsoft picked up flight simulator from SubLOGIC and released it for the XT. (The original was intended for TRS-80, Apple II).
If you think that today's Flight Simulator 2002, with very advanced 3d graphics and advanced flight simulation still has original code in it... you're wrong. Not only would XT code be of no use today, they re-wrote the whole thing between FS4 and FS5 anyway.
Skiers and Riders -- http://www.snowjournal.com
Hey, we all have our mishegoss. I decided to start a cooking show because I like to cook.
That said, I can't really see doing this myself; it's far too much work. But the technical expertise involved makes this a very cool, if somewhat monomaniacal, toy. What's really interesting is the links; there are clearly plenty of people who like this idea. The only downside is that it's anything other than a weekend project (which is really about the limit of what it would be worth, construction-wise, for me to build one...) and that it's brutally expensive...
/Brian
Does this make anyone else think of September 11th and training to fly a commercial airliner? If he actually manages to get it working, the current administration may well send some goons over to check out the situation. This is also probably a pretty good way to get a really big FBI file on yourself.
That's not to say that I don't think he should be allowed to do this, in fact I wish I had one of these things.
Lack of eloquence does not denote lack of intelligence, though they often coincide.
All I could seem to find was a 404 simulator...
AH-HAHAHAHAHA! (Laughs since nobody else should)
That's just one subsection of a very draconian bill. I urge all Aussies to get a copy and read it. Looks like fun, doesn't it? Especially the bit about being guilty until you prove your innocence. Yes, it's not called the FBI in Australia. It's called ASIO and if the legislation gets passed it'll be just as dangerous.
Note: I don't think this guy has much to worry about though. It's the possibility that's frightening.
Is him from Al Qaeda? :P
Seems the Google chache is gettin' slashdotted aswell...
a flight-attendant simulator, too. You know, like, a hot red-head with pretty eyes, who brings you free food and alcohol.
Nice to see nobody mentioning "MS is shit" for a change.
I mean, okay, MS is shit.. except their flight sim.
For those that don't recall, MS Flight Sim predates just about everything else they make, including windows. Fligh Sim is a niche product... it's nice to see it not as bunged up as the rest of their stuff.
You paranoid freaks make it out like it's virtually impossible to learn to fly a 747.
Guess what, if you want to take flight training for a 747, YOU CAN. Even if you wear a rag on your head. Even if you are a Muslim.
This guy is in AUSTRALIA. The FBI has no bloody jurisdiction in Australia. Why should an Australian care if the FBI is interested in him?
For that matter, the FBI deals in domestic matters. Perhaps you mean the CIA?
Why this guy is spending so much time and money on a project like this is far beyond me. 10 YEARS?? He could become and airline pilot in 10 years. The amount of money that he's going to spend on this thing could have been spent on getting his real pilot's license. As cool as his simulator may be, it won't ever hold a candle to the real thing.
Good refernce site:
: www.hyway.com.au/747/747.html+%22%2Bwww.hyway.com. au/747/747.html%22&hl=en&ie=UTF8
http://www.glideslope.de/html/cockpit.htm
Google Cache:
http://216.239.51.100/search?q=cache:lvvTeoFeD_cC
_JS
I have a sneaking suspicion that it's a "jews eat muslim babies, and the US bankrolls the dinner utensils" story.
And you would be correct, it's the website of a group called "The National Alliance." Basically it's Aryan Nation bullshit. The main page includes a link to every Nazi's wet dream: "Ethnic Cleansing: The Game." ("No, you can't shoot those pesky sub-humans in real life -- but you can in Ethnic Cleansing: The Game! Enter the virtual race war!) They also appear to try to link Commies and Jews in a conspiracy or some such bullshit. ("BOLSHEVISM FROM MOSES TO LENIN") There's a few other links to still more Nazi propaganda BS.
I can't believe some people actually still believe in this bullshit. I think this pretty much explains the firewall blocking access. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to load up Wolfenstien and blast some Nazi MFSOB's to the stone age.
workplace firewall????and you with no linux box at your house running ssh to forward port 3128 to your work box(en)????
Check it out here
He should work on a new web server as a project...
http://www.f15sim.com
747s are practically commonplace compared to this little jewel. *g*
Check out http://www.simpits.org for a whole organization of people into building homebuilt simulators.
MS Flight Sim has always been and still is one of the best pieces of flight simulation software on the market.
And for the record, Microsoft has owned it for 20 years. So, if you want to claim that MS is using someone else's 20 year old core code, you may go ahead, but anyone with a brain will know that you're full of crap.
"In 1982, Microsoft released Microsoft Flight Simulator 1.01, having purchased the license from SubLOGIC"
What the %&!@? If you knew anything about the flight sim scene you would realize that up until recently (the past few years) there existed no real competition in the non-specialized flight sim genre, because Microsoft Flight Sim has always simply been the best, hands down. They have never bought out any competing Flight Sims.
Because those games are so simple and not simulators. I would kill for a good, detailed, hard as hell space fighter sim with realisitc newtonian physics. You could then go crazy and build very cool cocpits like these super simulators to your own tastes but along the same multi-display and EPIC control standards.
... you are so bad at IT in general and can't manage to keep an OS running at peak stability and efficiency. I have XP at home (pro) and it has not crashed ONCE! I do hardware reviews for a major online site, and game like mad on this computer... on average I am loading and unloading drivers and apps on the order of five or six a week.
I also manage a small work network of Win2K servers and WinXP Pro workstations. None have crashed in three months! Not even the exchange server... you just actually need to know what you are doing, how to set them up, how to monitor for and fix problems proactively, and how to keep them secure.
Building? He already built it. He was featured on the Aussie TODAY show ~6 months ago. Bloody impressive. He said he's had visitors who have played on it, but nobody with a bohmb strapped to them. Interview was a month after SEP11, and interviewer asked him as such. BTW the software he's running is MS Flite Sim.
I guess that your way to solve crime would be kill everyone without a job (since they have the potential to commit crime to improve their status), Kill all the Blacks and Hispanics (Like who needs a reason for that), oh yeah, and get all the Italians since they're all potential Godfathers too!!!
I guess we could Nuke Harlem and South Central LA while you're at it - Atlanta might might be good too!
To ignore the causes and refuse to attempt to cure them, is to allow the problem to fester and grow. How many ppl do you want to wipe out. How many rights are you going to give up to create your Perfect Fascist world.
Sure you should arrest, try, then Hang the Guilty, however, why should everyone be treated as criminal?
-- "To ask a question is to show ignorance; Not to ask a question means you'll remain ignorant."
That's actually a CDROM drive.
And I get modded -1, Troll. How fitting.
Two of my friends are black. It would be insulting to be called a fascist by anyone but you, however, you're just too stupid for me to worry about it.
Comparing 9/11 to the petty crimes that might happen in Harlem is sick. I don't have to lay awake at night wondering if some pimp from South Central LA is trying to build nuclear weapons.
And *AGAIN* you refuse to name even one of these causes. Since you are too stupid to name one of them, allow me to do so for you.
In 1200 AD such and such a muslim was there.
In 1350 AD such and such a christian was here.
Then in 1360 2 muslims were here, and a christian there. Etc.
Sure, we could eliminate the causes, just build me a time machine.
Your bold refusal to see reality just makes things worse. Most of these disgustingly twisted terrorists will never even see a hangman's noose... they choose to die in the attack. And if only 20 terrorists die for every 3000 they murder, they consider it a victory. In a way, I suppose it is... because at that rate, everyone in the US would be dead before every terrorist was.
So, I'm not treating everyone as a criminal. I don't have the power to. I'm just not being blinded by all the bullshit like you.
He must be a terrorist.
[insert witty comment here]