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The Coming Internet Monopolies

scrm writes "'The Federal Communications Commission is quietly handing over control of the broadband Internet to a handful of massive corporations according to this Salon article." Very important stuff; Slashdot has covered this before, but this is a great article which sums up everything that has gone on over the past few years.

371 comments

  1. about time by tps12 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I prefer the Internet be controlled by a couple greedy corporations that by a single greedy government with armed forces to back it up.

    Call me paranoid, but I'm sticking with Linux, where I know I'm secure.

    --

    Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
    1. Re:about time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Call me paranoid, but I'm sticking with Linux, where I know I'm secure.

      You're not qualified as paranoid befire you use OpenBSD.

      I am. Both paranoid and an OpenBSD user.

    2. Re:about time by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I prefer the Internet be controlled by a couple greedy corporations that by a single greedy government with armed forces to back it up.

      I am not so sure about that. At least in a democratic society you can vote what your government does with such resources. When things get handed to a corporation you can only vote if your wallet is big enough. If you don't think corporations don't have armed forces, then you have never met an angry hord of lawyers ;)

      --
      Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    3. Re:about time by DEBEDb · · Score: 3, Funny

      When things get handed to a corporation you can only vote if your wallet is big enough.

      s/corporation/Congress/

      --

      Considered harmful.
    4. Re:about time by Metaldsa · · Score: 3, Funny

      Me too...linux! Wait, what was the subject again?

    5. Re:about time by swb · · Score: 2

      I prefer the Internet be controlled by a couple greedy corporations that by a single greedy government with armed forces to back it up.

      When the coporations control the government, isn't this just a distinction without a difference?

    6. Re:about time by sql*kitten · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When things get handed to a corporation you can only vote if your wallet is big enough

      I think you will find that corporations are far more answerable to customers and even small shareholders than governments are to voters.

      You "vote" every time you do business with a company - or choose not to. McDonalds and Starbucks are popular because lots of people freely choose to spend their money there. If people decide en masse not to do business with McDonalds, there's nothing they can do, they'll simply go bankrupt. If lots of people decide they don't want their government... well, ask the good "citizens" of Syria or Cuba what happens then.

      You get to vote for your government every 4 years. Once they're in, 4 years is long term. Corporations, on the other hand, have to keep you happy every day, forever. Corporations, especially these days when brands are so important, are massively concerned with what people think of them, and if they're unpopular, they'll change. Governments know that no matter what they do, they'll get back into power eventually.

      If you don't think corporations don't have armed forces, then you have never met an angry hord of lawyers

      I've never heard of lawyers physically assaulting people and destroying their property. Governments do it all the time.

    7. Re:about time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I regret to inform you that the distinction may not be so clear as you appear to believe.

    8. Re:about time by jxs2151 · · Score: 1

      Take the time to read The Lexus and the Olive Tree: Understanding Globalization by Thomas L. Friedman to learn a little more about who holds and will hold power in the future.

    9. Re:about time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You think the government and greedy corporations are separate?

    10. Re:about time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " I prefer the Internet be controlled by a couple greedy corporations that by a single greedy government with armed forces to back it up."

      Typical looneytarian fearmongering.
      q1: Did you vote in an election, for president and congress of the government?
      q2: did you vote in an election, for CEO and the board of directors for the 7 corporations thac control 90% of what you see and hear?
      q3: which do you think is more dangerous?

    11. Re:about time by Beliskner · · Score: 2
      ... Or you haven't watched enough episodes of Total Recall 2070, Nagel: "We at Recall corporation are performing our own internal investigation. You cops are required to share any information you've found with us."

      Alriiiiight at least the time-old philosophical question is going to be answered within 30 years - Is rule by a handful of megacorporations more or less oppressive than a Communist Government/Dictatorship?

      I get the feeling the FCC ruling isn't that bad, it doesn't affect dial-ups status of Telco-rule-protected so people that *really* want freedom have that alternative. I now expect CDBPPTA to be shelved, there's no need for CDBPPTA compliant routers to replace the existing dumb packet forwarding Cisco/more advanced SONET infrastructure.

      --
      A caveman dreams of being us, the incalculable power and riches. We dream of being Q, then what?
    12. Re:about time by Beliskner · · Score: 2
      You "vote" every time you do business with a company - or choose not to. McDonalds and Starbucks are popular because lots of people freely choose to spend their money there. If people decide en masse not to do business with McDonalds, there's nothing they can do, they'll simply go bankrupt
      Or they can change their name to McDonalds.com and get a $1billion VC funding, that way you don't need customers. What a brilliant idea.

      Oh wait...

      --
      A caveman dreams of being us, the incalculable power and riches. We dream of being Q, then what?
    13. Re:about time by Beliskner · · Score: 3, Insightful
      You can mod me to troll for saying this, but at least this happened now when everybody *expects* a free Internet where their daughter can put up a website about ponies and can go into chat rooms and not get heavily censored China-style. Now that the majority of customers expect this product (the free Internet as it is today, just faster in broadband) if you take away this product you will seem totally stupid. What company no matter how big ever pulled their best-selling product? If this had happened a few years ago we'd all expect a padded room-censored Internet.

      FCC - Pandora's box is already open, this is a pitiful attempt to close it. Next time I'll vote Democrat, trouble is I'm not in the US, but anyway they have my karma vote.

      --
      A caveman dreams of being us, the incalculable power and riches. We dream of being Q, then what?
    14. Re:about time by darkfrog · · Score: 1

      Hmmm control by a few large greedy corporations
      or owned by lots of smaller less greedy companies. What would I choose...

      Larger companies:
      Stability
      Greed
      Standardization on architecture
      Greed
      Less Helpful
      Greed
      Usually more informed
      Did I mention Profiteering Glutton?

      Smaller companies:
      Not as big a wallet
      Can be more helpful
      Not as stable
      More in touch with its customers

      Government:
      Inefficient
      Cost ineffective
      Technologicly challenged
      Greed for power
      Not at all helpful
      Unresponsive

      As long as its not run by the last one, the chances are we're better off.

      --
      --DarkFrog
      If the dead rise again, we're going to have some serious population control issues.
    15. Re:about time by Mikeytsi · · Score: 1

      This is a nice theory you have there, but it only works if there's other businesses to compete for your money. If the industry is controlled by a few huge players, they don't care what the consumers think, because there isn't anywhere else to go. When was the last time you got good customer service from "the" phone company?

      --
      I've been called a "Fucking Dick" by better people than you.
    16. Re:about time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Ok you clearly didn't read the story and you haven't got a clue.
      The kind of control referred to in the story has nothing to do with the kind of control and surveillance the government is exercising currently and seeking more of. It means that you will be unable to shop for a broadband ISP whose terms you like. There will be fewer than 4 players (oligopoly in any Econ 101 textbook) and since they have no competition they will freely gate your access to internet technologies requiring you to purchase these as services from them exclusively - or forbidding you access to them at all- or forcing you to pay higher monthly subscriptions to enjoy what people under more competitive situations have enjoyed for free. (Example my DSL isp actually tries to sell NAT to its customers AS A MONTHLY ADDON CHARGE, believe it or not. They can't stop me from doing it myself for nothing, but then they haven't tried yet, either) In the future when broadband is monopolized locally by a tiny number of enormous companies, internet services and content will be increasingly TIED TOGETHER, owing to the overlap between conventional media content companies, which are fewer in number every year and broadband internet companies, which again will be radically fewer going forward as the FCC frees telcos to kill DSL providers and keeps such restrictions off cable monopolies.
      Let me repeat with emphasis since you probably have a hard time understanding.
      YOU WILL BE SUBJECT TO BOTH KINDS OF OBNOXIOUS CONTROL IN THE FUTURE.
      The rise of Internet monopolies, encouraged by reckless government actions will not do one damn thing to lessen the invasiveness of government surveillance and policing of the internet.
      One thing that is for sure about monopolies: they don't give a rat's ass about the happiness or unhappiness of their customers with the product. If the government wants ever freer reins to police you online, and you don't like this rest assured that there'll be nothing you can do about it. There will be no ISPs with a better reputation of protecting its customers' privacy from either government snoops or marketting snoops.
      Notice that the same adminstration that is creating new keyholes to peer into your online life EVERY WEEK now, is also summarily destroying rules that require broadband monopolies to allow ISP competition to exist.


      Enjoy the National Socialism, America: Permanent war against citizens as well as fill-in-the-blank countries. Got questions for your leaders? Then you're a terrorist sympathizer!
      It won't last a "thousand years" but a 2004 endpoint will be bad enough.

    17. Re:about time by Beliskner · · Score: 2
      I think you will find that corporations are far more answerable to customers and even small shareholders than governments are to voters
      Trash. Shareholders have no say in the dealings of big corporations. It's the *institutional* shareholders e.g. 401k fund managers that hold the power over these companies, as they have the majority of shares, and all they want is short term profit for themselves at any cost so they can get $1million bonus and celebrate by buying $40,000 conoisseur wines with their Wall Street buddies. The institutional investors have these companies by the balls so even if (RI|MP)AA wants to be nice, they can't be.

      Read this article

      Many institutional investors' equity holdings are so large that they have become permanent, long-term shareowners of major corporations. As a result, they have an economic interest in using corporate governance to improve performance. And as the size of their holdings has grown, institutional investors have rediscovered ownership rights. The idea of "voting with their feet"-simply selling shares when management's behavior disgusts them-has given way to the realization that taking an active role as an owner makes better economic sense
      So there you go, big money follows the big money in a loop
      You "vote" every time you do business with a company - or choose not to. McDonalds and Starbucks are popular because lots of people freely choose to spend their money there. If people decide en masse not to do business with McDonalds, there's nothing they can do, they'll simply go bankrupt
      Idealism. Now institutional investors A, B, C invest total $1trillion in Rupert Murdoch and $1trillion in McDonalds. If Rupert Murdoch wants to publish a news article hurting McDonalds (e.g. Big Macs are radioactive), and institutional investor A finds out, he's gonna "scratch the back" of B and C by telling them their interests are going to be hurt, marshalling a force of the majority shareholders (institutional only) to tell Rupert Murdoch to shut up, otherwise they'll sell their shares in his companies. All this because A, B and C's investment in McDonalds would be damaged by the information leaking. The investors might even give Rupert Murdoch a finder's fee on-the-down-low well in excess of the news' ad revenues.
      --
      A caveman dreams of being us, the incalculable power and riches. We dream of being Q, then what?
    18. Re:about time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You actually think consumer power matters to really important decisions . when is the last time anyone thought " well that dimond is aquired by massive genocide orcestrated by big dimond companies in Zaire so i will not by this product "
      . specialy iff it is used in industry or dental care ( drills equiped whith tiny dimonds ) like most dimonds and the consumer have not even a theoretical possebillety to know where it comes from . There are other hugely important isues that consumers dont seem to care much about
      ( simply becuase the shareholders and consumers are not the ones being exploited by ruthless corporations ) , or doesnt know about . This is true whith the majority off the life and death decisions that huge multinationals make .

      And you DONT have a say in the IMPORTANT decisions . That is not "how hot should my coffe be" or "how fat should my burger be" but cuestions off where and how production is handeld , how raw materials are aquired or how they corupt politisians whith campain contribusions to get the "right" laws passed .
      And i thout this thing whith democracy was understodd by most people by now ... but here is one easy some upp fore you who have obviosly not

      one head , one vote : democrasy

      one dollar , one vote : not democrasy

      it cant be that hard to understand

      Finaly i would have to agree that voting one time in four years for someone is not realy a good democrasy . But it does not get better iff you lett corporations make all the really important desisons . Iff ellected people actually had a say in the way the sociaty works then maybe people would realise that they can change things and get off there asses and demand a reform off the system , for example by banning corporate campain funding or demand shorter terms off office . Becuase iff the ones elected would have a say in the most important stuff then the people ellecting them would probably manage to get to the polls more often .

      Giving gouvernment more power over corporations and therby the economy would off cuorse need to be follwed by diminishing its power in other areas , for example its abillity to spy on its citisens or its ability to ceep things secret from there citisens . And off cuorse a heavy increse in individual rights + the abillity to get rid off missbehaving politishians att once .

      So :

      more power to ellected people coupled whith stronger individual rights and more acountabillity

      less power to corporations

    19. Re:about time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      this free market analysis is good, but it ignores the fact that there is _not_ a free market in the telecommunications industry...
      "deregulating" consolidation while localy enforced monoplies control the last mile is a recipie for disaster.
      now, if there where a REAL free market approach, ie, no FCC, no regulations on start ups and use of the various frequency ranges, that would be capitalism, and that would be awesome
      btw, that would kill corporate radio too

    20. Re:about time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rather than choosing evil corporations over an evil government, try choosing another government. Either move to another country or start working to overthrow your government.

      The best governments in the world are certainly not worse than corporations.

    21. Re:about time by Benjaman+McFree · · Score: 1

      What country do you live in? Here in America we have elections every two years.

    22. Re:about time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that the gouvernment is trying to censor people by letting media moguls do their dirty work is bad even iff they do not sucseed . I realy hope people whont stand for any more off these attemts becuase even iff this fails they can always try something else (like their "contract" whith media not allowing them to let their opponents speak on the air or their speatch about that guy who pointed out the 9 11 people where not cowords).

    23. Re:about time by Citizen+G · · Score: 1

      So the very same corporations who buy the civil servants in state & national government buy defacto now, should run everything more out in the open and stop pretending to be good citizens and share with the rest of the people/consumers.

      Thank you, but no thank you

    24. Re:about time by zarathud · · Score: 1

      You "vote" every time you do business with a company

      First off, I *do* agree with this idea, but it does have its problems. For one thing uninformed consumers are just as prevalent (if not more so) as uninformed voters. Then you have the problem that many consumers don't even realize that they are "voting" with their purchases. And of course, there is the economic class favoritism issue, since wealthier people get more votes.

  2. Beef sellers taking over by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wasn't this obvious that after the dot com massacre
    companies with large amounts of capital from traditional sources
    would take over?

    1. Re:Beef sellers taking over by Metaldsa · · Score: 1

      And I was so sure Joe Blow's Teletech company was going to outlast Comcast with telecoms down 90% over the past year.

      Not just obvious, but INCONCIEVABLE!

    2. Re:Beef sellers taking over by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

  3. Re:LNUX DEATH WATCH by News+For+Turds · · Score: 0

    A word from the CLIT sponsors:

    Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer Wizard
    v 02.00

    Table of Contents
    1. Overview
    2. DHCP
    3. DNS
    4. IP Address Support
    5. Suggest IP Address (Autonet)
    6. NetWare Support
    a. Supported Versions
    b. NDS Multiple Tree Support
    c. NetWare 5 Support
    d. No Novell Print Path
    e. No NDS volumes
    f. Support for NDS localities
    7. Device Discovery
    a. Gateway
    b. Multi-homed Machines
    c. 0.0.0.0 IP Addresses
    d. Class A Subnet Masks
    8. Driver Support
    a. License Acceptance
    b. Have Disk Support
    c. HP Driver Updates
    9. IPX Port Monitor and Data Corruption
    10. Printer Names
    11. Printer Share Name
    12. Error Messages
    13. Known Problems Installing HP Printer Drivers Under Windows 95/98
    14. Known Problems Installing HP Printer Drivers Under Windows NT 4.0

    1. Overview
    This Read Me file contains last-minute product information for the Hewlett-Packard
    Install Network Printer wizard for Windows 95/ 98 and Windows NT.

    2. DHCP
    If you try to change just the subnet mask on an HP JetDirect print server that has
    been configured via DHCP, you will get an error message while using the Hewlett-Packard
    Install Network Printer wizard. Once a JetDirect print server has been manually
    configured, it will store the IP address, subnet mask and default gateway statically
    instead of trying to obtain them dynamically. Allowing a static change only to the
    subnet mask would cause DHCP-configured IP conflicts in the future. For more information
    on this subject, see the HP JetDirect documentation.

    3. DNS
    In a DNS environment, the Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer wizard will
    automatically set up the port with the host name rather than the IP address. If you have
    a DNS environment that allows Host lookup by IP, but not the reverse lookup, the printer
    will never print a page. We consider this environment to be an invalid DNS environment.
    To fix the port without changing the DNS environment, view Properties for the printer.
    Select the ports tab. Select the port that is in use for that printer. Click Configure
    Port. Change the host name to the correct IP address.

    4. IP Address Support
    Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer Wizard do not support class D IP address. Class D IP
    addresses are those addresses with the form of 224.xx.yy.zz

    All addresses of the form 127.xx.yy.zz are reserved for loopback testing. They are not valid IP
    to be used to configure device on the network.

    5. Suggest IP Address (Autonet)
    The algorithm for obtaining the IP address for the "Suggest Settings..." button is
    derived from the Internet Draft DHC-IPV4-AUTOCONFIG by R. Troll entitled "Automatically
    Choosing an IP Address in an Ad-Hoc IPv4 Network". The algorithm for generating the IP
    address is to randomly generate an address in the 169.254.x.x reserved address range,
    then determine if it is in use on the network. If it is in use, generate another address
    in the range. Repeat until an address is generated that is not in use. The resulting
    address is not intended for use on the Internet. Microsoft uses a similar scheme for
    determining an IP address on Windows 98 and Windows 2000 when the system is in an environment
    that doesn't have a DHCP or bootp server, and the system is configured to dynamically
    determine and IP address.

    6. NetWare Support
    a. Supported Versions
    The supported versions of NetWare are: 3.11, 3.12, 3.2, 4.11, 4.2. For Novell
    queue creation, you must be logged into a Novell bindery or NDS server using a Novell
    supplied client requester. See www.novell.com for client updates.
    b. NDS Multiple Tree Support
    The Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer wizard only provides support for the NDS
    tree the user is currently logged into. If a different tree is desired you must quit
    the application, change your login to the desired tree and rerun the application.
    c. NetWare 5.0 Support
    If NetWare 5 is configured for IPX, and an IPX connection is being used on the client,
    the Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer Wizard can be used to create an NDS print
    queue. If NetWare 5 is configured for TCP/IP and a TCP/IP connection is being used on
    the client, the Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer wizard can be used to create
    an IP print path. If the client on which the application is being run has an IPX
    connection to the NetWare 5 server, and the client is logged in, an NDS queue server
    print path will be recommended. If IPX is not in use but TCP/IP is, a TCP/IP print
    path will be recommended. In order to create NDS queues, an IPX connection with a
    login must be present.
    d. No Novell Print Path
    The Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer wizard relies upon several DLLs that ship
    with the Novell Client for 95 and NT. The application will look for these DLLs and
    the associated entry points within them. If any of the necessary DLLs are missing,
    or if they do not have the needed entry points (perhaps an old version), a Novell
    print path will not be available although other supported print paths will be. If a
    Novell print path is not available when you think one should be, try upgrading your
    Novell client software to a newer version.

    e. No NDS volumes shown in NetWare 4.11
    There is a known problem reading the list of available NDS volumes in NetWare 4.11 with
    service pack prior to version 7. This problem has been seen in cases were the user
    logs into an NDS context that is at a lower level than the available volumes. The solution
    is to install the NetWare 4 Support Pack 7 or upgrade to NetWare 4.2.

    f. Support for NDS localities
    The Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer Wizard cannot recognize localities in the
    NDS context.

    7. Device Discovery
    a. Gateway
    Discovery performance will be very slow if your client PC does not have a gateway
    configured. To configure a gateway, choose "Network" in the Control Panel, and then
    look at Properties for the TCP/IP protocol. An input should appear for entering a
    gateway address. See the online help for a more information on TCP/IP and gateways.
    b. Multi-homed Machines
    Multi-homed machines are not supported. In a multi-homed machine, it is not possible
    to distinguish between multiple devices with the same IP address. A multi-homed
    machine is a computer with more than one network connection. It is possible for two
    or more devices on different networks to have the same IP address. A multi-homed
    machine would see both devices and there would be no guarantee that you are
    configuring the correct device. In this case, either disable all but the correct
    network card, or configure the HP JetDirect print server from another PC that is on
    the correct network and has only one network card. This problem may also occur on
    PCs that contains both a network card and a dial-up adapter.
    c. 0.0.0.0 IP Addresses
    Assuming that an IP address is not assigned, a JetDirect-connected printer will have
    an IP address of "0.0.0.0" for approximately 2 minutes after a factory reset. After
    2 minutes the IP address will automatically be assigned "192.0.0.192". Attempts to
    configure a "0.0.0.0" device through an IP print path will fail. You must wait until
    the HP JetDirect device has a non-zero IP address before attempting to configure it.
    d. Class A Subnet Masks
    If the machine running the Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer wizard has an IP
    subnet mask of "255.0.0.0" (which is known as a "Class A" subnet mask), device
    discovery will suffer a significant performance degradation. To improve discovery
    performance you must change your subnet mask to a non-Class A subnet mask.

    8. Driver Support
    a. License Support
    Some drivers require the acceptance of a license. When installing a driver, if a
    dialog appears that requests acceptance of a license, you must approve the license
    before the application will continue. Failure to approve the license will result in
    the application hanging.
    b. Have Disk Support
    To support new printers or drivers, the "Have Disk" button can be utilized during
    driver installation. For the "Have Disk" functionality to work, the media must
    contain an "inf" file (e.g. filename.inf). Some driver updates available on the
    World Wide Web are in the form of self-extracting archives and are not in a format
    that "Have Disk" can utilize. In this case, install the driver before running the
    Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer wizard.
    c. HP Driver Updates
    Hewlett-Packard driver updates can be found on the World Wide Web at:
    www.hp.com/go/support
    NOTE: This URL is subject to change.

    9. IPX Port Monitor and Data Corruption
    Some printers may experience data corruption when used with the Hewlett-Packard IPX
    Port monitor under Windows NT. These errors may be corrected either by installing an
    appropriate hot fix for NT or by installing Service Pack 4 from Microsoft.

    10. Printer Names
    When naming a printer within the Hewlett-Packard Install Network Printer wizard you
    must enter a name in English that conforms to the Microsoft Printer Naming rules
    (i.e. what would be accepted in the Microsoft Add Printer wizard). If a localized name
    is required, assign the printer name in English and finish the install. Then open the
    printer folder from the Control Panel and select the desired printer. Select "Rename"
    from the File menu and rename the printer with a localized name.

    11. Printer Share Name
    Spaces are not allowed for naming printer shared name.

    12. Error Messages
    Error writing to for : The system cannot write to the specified file.

    This error message may appear when attempting to print a test page or during regular
    use. It usually means the printer is out of paper or unavailable. Check the printer
    and make sure it is plugged in, has paper, etc. If you were running the Hewlett-Packard
    Install Network Printer wizard when this occurred, there is no need to rerun the
    application. Simply locate the printer in the printer folder and right mouse click on
    it. Choose "Properties" and select to print a test page. If you have corrected the
    error condition, a test page should now print.

    Driver cannot install. Must run printer's setup program.

    When installing certain HP printers (see tables below under #11 and #12), the Hewlett-Packard
    Install Network Printer wizard may not be able to install the driver. You will receive an
    error message stating that you need to run the printer's setup program. The Hewlett-Packard
    Install Network Printer wizard may create the printer in the printer's folder despite this error.
    The installed printer will not function properly. After the wizard exits, run the setup
    program that comes with the printer. You may have to identify the printer as existing on a
    local port such as LPT1. Install the printer using this setup program. Now delete both
    printers from the printer folder (the printer created by the HP wizard and the printer created
    by the printer's setup program). Run the HP wizard a second time. This time choose existing
    drivers. You will see two similar printer strings. One will be from the first HP wizard
    install and one from the printer's setup install. Choose one. If the wizard exists
    successfully you chose the proper driver. If the installation fails, rerun the wizard and
    this time choose the other driver. Finally, check to make sure the printer created is the
    default printer. This can be accomplished by right mouse clicking on the printer in the
    printer's folder and seeing if "Set As Default" is checked.

    13. Known Problems Installing HP Printer Drivers Under Windows 95/98
    Some HP printer drivers do not install correctly using the printer .INF file and the
    "Have Disk..." option. These drivers and the behaviors that they exhibit are listed
    below, along with directions to install these drivers properly.

    Printer Model: HP LaserJet 8100
    Behavior: PCL 6 driver will not install. The user will receive a "Spool 32" error.
    Solution:
    1. Run the file Setup.exe that came with the printer driver to install the driver.
    2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the PCL 6 driver.

    Printer Model: HP LaserJet 8000
    Behavior: PCL 6 driver will not install. The user will receive a "Spool 32" error.
    Solution:
    1. Run the file Setup.exe that came with the printer driver to install the driver.
    2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the PCL 6 driver.

    Printer Model: HP Mopier 320
    Behavior: PCL 6 driver will not install. The user will receive an error message telling them
    to run the setup program that came with this printer, and then to run the printer
    installer again.
    Solution:
    1. Run the file Setup.exe that came with the printer driver to install the driver.
    2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the PCL 6 driver.

    Printer Model: HP LaserJet 4050
    Behavior: PCL 5e driver will not install. The user will receive an error message telling them
    to run the setup program that came with this printer, and then to run the printer
    installer again.
    Solution:
    1. Run the file Setup.exe that came with the printer driver to install the driver.
    2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the PCL 5e driver.

    Printer Model: HP Color LaserJet 4500
    Behavior: Postscript driver will not install. The user will receive an error message telling
    them to run the setup program that came with this printer, and then to run the
    printer installer again.
    Solution:
    1. Run the file Setup.exe that came with the printer driver to install the driver.
    2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the Postscript
    driver.

    Printer Model: HP DeskJet 2500C
    Behavior: The DeskJet 2500C driver will not install. The user will receive an error message
    telling them to run the setup program that came with this printer, and then to run
    the printer installer again.
    Solution:
    1. Run the file Setup.exe that came with the printer driver to install the driver.
    2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the driver.

    Printer Model: HP LaserJet 5M
    Behavior: The following drivers will not install properly: PCL Standard, PCL Enhanced,
    Postscript. The user will receive an error message telling them to run the setup
    program that came with this printer, and then to run the printer installer again.
    Solution:
    The drivers for the HP LaserJet 5M can not be installed with the "Install Network
    Printer Wizard." Please use JetAdmin or Web JetAdmin to install this printer and drivers.

    Printer Model: HP Color LaserJet
    Behavior: The following drivers will not install properly: HP Color LaserJet, HP Color LaserJet
    5/5M (CLJ5FR), HP Color LaserJet 5/5M (HP). The user will receive an error message
    telling them to run the setup program that came with this printer, and then to run
    the printer installer again.
    Solution:
    1. Run the file Setup.exe that came with the printer driver to install the driver.
    2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the driver.

    Printer Model: HP Color LaserJet 5
    Behavior: The following drivers will not install properly: HP Color LaserJet, HP Color LaserJet
    5/5M (CLJ5FR), HP Color LaserJet 5/5M (HP), HP Color LaserJet 5/5M Postscript. The
    user will receive an error message telling them to run the setup program that came
    with this printer, and then to run the printer installer again.
    Solution:
    1. Run the file Setup.exe that came with the printer driver to install the driver.
    2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the driver.

    Printer Model: HP LaserJet 6P
    Behavior: The following drivers will not install properly: PCL Standard, PCL Enhanced,
    Postscript. The user will receive an error message telling them to run the setup
    program that came with this printer, and then to run the printer installer again.
    Solution:
    1. Run the file Setup.exe that came with the printer driver to install the driver.
    2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the driver.

    Printer Model: HP LaserJet 6L
    Behavior: The PCL Standard will not install properly. The user will receive an error message
    telling them to run the setup program that came with this printer, and then to run
    the printer installer again.
    Solution:
    1. Run the file Setup.exe that came with the printer driver to install the driver.
    2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the driver.

    Printer Model: HP OfficeJet Pro 1170C
    Behavior: The OfficeJet Pro 1170C driver will not install properly. The user will receive an
    error message telling them to run the setup program that came with this printer, and
    then to run the printer installer again.
    Solution:
    1. Run the file Setup.exe that came with the printer driver to install the driver.
    2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the driver.

    Printer Model: HP DeskJet 1120
    Behavior: There is a port monitor error right after installing the printer. The printer supplied
    driver is not supported
    Solution:
    1. Run the Setup.exe that came with the printer to install the driver.
    2. Run the "Install Network Printer Wizard" to install the printer with the driver.

    14. Known Problems Installing HP Printer Drivers Under Windows NT 4.0
    Some HP printer drivers do not install correctly using the printer .INF file and the "Have Disk..." option. These drivers and the behaviors that they exhibit are listed below, along with directions to install these drivers properly.

    Printer Model: HP LaserJet 8100
    Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 PCL 6 client driver.
    Solution:
    1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
    manually.

    Printer Model: HP LaserJet 5000
    Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 PCL 5 client driver.
    Solution:
    1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
    manually

    Printer Model: HP LaserJet 4050
    Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 PCL 5 and PCL 6
    client drivers.
    Solution:
    1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
    manually

    Printer Model: HP LaserJet 2100
    Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 PCL and Poscript
    client drivers.
    Solution:
    1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
    manually

    Printer Model: HP Laser Jet 6L
    Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 Postcript client
    driver.
    Solution:
    1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
    manually

    Printer Model: HP Laser Jet 5P
    Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 Postcript client
    driver.
    Solution:
    1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
    manually

    Printer Model: HP Laser Jet 5L
    Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 Postcript client
    driver.
    Solution:
    1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
    manually

    Printer Model: HP Laser Jet 5
    Behavior: Driver will not install. The user will receive an error message telling them to run
    the setup program that came with this printer, and then to run the printer installer
    again.
    Solution:
    1. Run the Setup.exe that came with the printer to install the driver.

    Printer Model: HP LaserJet 5Si Mopier
    Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 client driver.
    Solution:
    1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
    manually

    Printer Model: HP DeskJet 895C
    Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 client driver.
    Solution:
    1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
    manually

    Printer Model: HP DeskJet 890
    Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 client driver.
    Solution:
    1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
    manually

    Printer Model: HP DeskJet 870
    Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 client driver.
    Solution:
    1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
    manually

    Printer Model: HP DeskJet 2000C
    Behavior: Driver will not install. The user will receive an error message telling them
    to run the setup program that came with this printer, and then to run the printer
    installer again.
    Solution:
    1. Run the Setup.exe that came with the printer to install the driver.

    Printer Model: HP DeskJet 2500C
    Behavior: Windows NT 4.0 shared printers cannot install the Windows 95/98 client driver.
    Solution:
    1. Windows 95/98 client connecting to the Windows NT shared printer must install driver
    manually

    Printer Model: HP OfficeJet Pro 1170C
    Behavior: No inf file that describe printer drivers.
    Solution:
    1. Run the Setup.exe that came with the printer to install the driver.

    Printer Model: HP CopyJet
    Behavior: No inf file that describe printer drivers.
    Solution:
    1. Run the Setup.exe that came with the printer to install the driver.

    Copyright 1999 Hewlett-Packard Co. All Rights Reserved.

    --
    -- You are such a fucking fag
  4. Isn't long distance telephony bascially owned too? by Sagarian · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Isn't long distance telephony infrastructure also controlled by a few massive corporations? Equal access carrier laws and preventing a single company from owning the whole thing has fostered enough competition to really hammer AT&T, for instance.

  5. welcome to last week... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    wtlw.
    how is this news?

    ein net, ein pipe, ein company.

    We've been hearing it for years. of course if salon posts it and we have to stare at some obnoxious ads, it carries more weight.

  6. Good? by KingKire64 · · Score: 1

    If it drops the cost of broadband and increases the bandwidth becuase tehse companys can afford to do it i have no problem... if thats the case

    --
    "All I can tell the "lesser of two evils" folks is that if they keep voting for evil, they'll keep getting evil."-Lp.org
    1. Re:Good? by NanoGator · · Score: 2

      I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, I'm leary of monopolies. On the other, some of these companies put loooooooads of money into making this work.

      I wouldn't mind AT&T BI having a temporary monopoly to recoup their investment (like they do with drug companies...). However, forever is a really long time.

      What I'm concerned about is this: Without temporary monopolies to recoup R&D and Deployment, what incentive is there for a company to invest butt-loads of money into something like a broadband network?

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    2. Re:Good? by CantGetAUserName · · Score: 1

      That's the point: you give up something and you take something else (as a consumer). Currently the way the world works is that you give up your choice. And that's it. If you're very very lucky you'll save a couple of hundred short term until either a) a monopoly or b) a cartel is established and the prices go waaaaay up.

      And as for temporary monopoly, have you been paying attention to the copyright scene? It's temporary, but it's always going to lapse tomorrow...

      --
      Semper en excreta sumus solum profundum
    3. Re:Good? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We have 1 (sort of 2) big companies owning broadband in Australia. Try and find a decent broadband connection here.

      Aussie Broadband Choice

      Everything has about a 3GB a month limit.
      It is in no way a good thing.

  7. This can't be good in the long run by Budgreen · · Score: 4, Interesting

    " They warn that if the FCC goes through with its plans, cable companies and the Baby Bells will quickly establish a monopoly on broadband service over their own networks."

    The quote in the article states that this could give the Cable companies a monopoly on broadband.. This I see as bad because there is no compeition (locally) for cable companies. you get what is there, I see it bad for pricing/monitoring

    you get 1 choice of cablemodem (cable company) or 1 choice of DSL (local phone company) or satelite (not great for gaming) and no real competition. Who wants to bet that Innovation in this field is the next to die?

    --
    The greatest right given is the right to be wrong...
    1. Re:This can't be good in the long run by limpdawg · · Score: 3, Interesting

      More likely this will spur innovation in the wireless field. SO if you have cable and dsl and both are just stagnating with high prices and restrictions it gives another company prime opportunity to come in and sell bett, cheaper wireless access and make a lot of money.

      --

      Nascantur in Admiratione. (Let them be born in Wonder)

    2. Re:This can't be good in the long run by GreyPoopon · · Score: 4, Interesting
      The quote in the article states that this could give the Cable companies a monopoly on broadband.

      Yeah it does, but I'm not so sure that this is all that bad. Everybody flame me if you want, but at least let me explain my reasoning. Right now, my local telco has an absolute stranglehold on service in my area. Forget about DSL -- not even available here. My cable company has a stranglehold on TV (never mind the fact that I actually like my cable company -- it's a rather small one). For the first time, though, my cable company is planning on offering telephony over IP, which will provide direct competition with the behemoth that runs the phone service. Cable is the first technology in decades that poses a threat to the rather well entrenched baby bells. I can easily see how forcing them to share their infrastructure will reduce the short-term profitability of providing these services.

      Now, here's what I'm hoping will happen: My cable company picks up steam and goes head to head in competition with my telco. Prices drop in the battle, and service improves. Then, the FCC reconsiders its decision (because my cable company is now providing phone service too), and forces the cable company to allow startups a chance to get into the business.

      On top of all of this, I believe that startups should only be allowed access to an existing companies equipment for a specified period of time. I believe this will provide incentive to build their own infrastructure.

      Finally, I'd like to submit one last idea. Right now, there are three technologies that are capable of providing good TV, Internet and Telephony services. That would be the telephone companies' copper (or fiber), the cable companies' coax (or fiber) and wireless broadband. If all of these technologies can provide the same services, I really don't care if each is a monopoly. As long as they compete with each other, prices will go down and service will go up. What I don't want to see is one company controlling all of these technologies in the same area.

      OK. Am I wrong? Correct my thinking if I am.

      --

      GreyPoopon
      --
      Why is it I can write insightful comments but can't come up with a clever signature?

    3. Re:This can't be good in the long run by johnalex · · Score: 2, Interesting
      On top of all of this, I believe that startups should only be allowed access to an existing companies equipment for a specified period of time. I believe this will provide incentive to build their own infrastructure.

      I'm not so certain about everyone building their own infrastructure - seems like a waste of resources. What would have happened if every auto maker had to build their own highways?

      I don't claim to know how the details would work, but it seems the information infrastructure should be public domain. Perhaps the feds should reimburse companies for existing infrastructure and contract with private entities to provide maintenance, upgrades, and expansions. That way, startups wouldn't have to undergo the horrendous process of petitioning monopolies and/or the courts for access rights.

      My $0.02 US worth.

      --
      JA
      http://www.johnalex.org/
    4. Re:This can't be good in the long run by invenustus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What would have happened if every auto maker had to build their own highways?

      Our national rail infrastructure wouldn't have been destroyed. Hazardous materials could be shipped more safely. There would be far less pollution. And all our base wouldn't be belong to the oil companies and the countries that drill for it.

      Doesn't sound too bad to me.

      --
      grep -ri 'should work' /usr/src/linux | wc -l
    5. Re:This can't be good in the long run by GreyPoopon · · Score: 1
      I'm not so certain about everyone building their own infrastructure - seems like a waste of resources.

      You're probably right. And I'm not sure I'd want them all digging up the street, either.

      I don't claim to know how the details would work, but it seems the information infrastructure should be public domain. Perhaps the feds should reimburse companies for existing infrastructure and contract with private entities to provide maintenance, upgrades, and expansions. That way, startups wouldn't have to undergo the horrendous process of petitioning monopolies and/or the courts for access rights.

      That's one option. Another is for somebody to do a study to determine the REASONABLE costs of allowing other companies to use your infrastructure. That's what other companies should pay for using existing infrastructure. But to be clear, the company who owns it should make a small profit on their investment. Certainly, other companies shouldn't be allowed to use it for free.

      My $0.02 US worth.

      I'd say we got a good return on our investment. :-)

      --

      GreyPoopon
      --
      Why is it I can write insightful comments but can't come up with a clever signature?

    6. Re:This can't be good in the long run by ahfoo · · Score: 2

      Are you sure about that?
      I was wondering about doing an ISP in an area that was a bit removed from a big city in California after I found that Tsunami unlicensed 5Ghz Microwave bridges were only five grand and they claimed they could do forty miles with line of sight.
      So, I had my connection out to this remote community and all I needed was my connection to the fat pipes. Well that should be easy right. The Tsunami model I was looking at used a DS3 connection. So, I googled DS3 in California and found that there's only one source. Hmm, that's right, it's one of these here Baby Bell thingamajigs.
      Well no problem, I was gonna pay for it. I figured I could go up to a thousand bucks a month easy and still make it profitable, maybe even two grand. After all with these 10GbE switches on dark fiber going for just a few grand how much could a measly 60Mbps cost?
      The answer is five thousand bucks a month. I was astonished. How could it be so expensive when ethernet technology had dropped in price so far? The answer is easy and has been rehashed on Slashdot many times. They insist on quality of service QOS for their other services that have nothing to do with ISPs like voice and a bunch of vaporware shit they say is going to make them rich in the future. See, because of this future need to fuck everybody they use only very expensive ATM and Sonet equipment rather than these cheap fiber Ethernet switches we hear so much about.
      It's not quite as simple as wireless is the answer. This is about who controls the backbone.

    7. Re:This can't be good in the long run by bleckywelcky · · Score: 2, Interesting


      All of the access lines should be in the public domain, property of everyone, since content access (internet, phone, etc) is almost becoming a necessity any more. The situation is quite similar to roads. Everyone needs to use roads, and if they need to get to some specific area, someone's house, a local business, they shouldn't be barred from doing so because the road systems are privately monopolized. People need to access information and get online, and their access should not be based on how much a few private companies want to charge them to use the system to get to the information. Now, this isn't to say that the government should take complete control over all access lines, as they would go into disrepair just as many of our roads have, but the government should have complete control over the lines, and should allow anyone access to them should they wish to provide a service over them.

    8. Re:This can't be good in the long run by Cairsten · · Score: 1

      I completely agree with this. The one thing that seems to be evident is that everyone should have access to those lines. Personally, I would be in favour of the existence of one company specifically for taking maintenance of and extension of that infrastructure, as opposed to turning it over to government, with the cost of access to the infrastructure being government-regulated, ie a user tax. I'd go further and suggest that the company be a non-profit organisation, but I'm really not that much of an optimist.

      --
      We shall find peace. We shall hear angels, we shall see the sky sparkling with diamonds. - Chekov.
    9. Re:This can't be good in the long run by damien_kane · · Score: 1

      You are trenching exactly towards what my point is.

      I think the infrastructure should be installed and maintained by the government, and allow all telcos access to it at a monthly/annual fee. The telcos could then add this fee to their own charge for services, and all in all everything would go better. The governement itself would not provide service (when is the last time you called the Federal gov't because your cable was down?) so the telcos would be forced to compete on a level playing ground, just like the companies that make cars do.

    10. Re:This can't be good in the long run by muzzmac · · Score: 2, Informative

      I live in Australia where there is a "Duopoly" (2 companies own all the cable/ phone lines)

      We now can't buy an affordable plan with more than about a 3 to 4.5 GB limit any more.

      Check it out:

      Aussie Broadband Choice Web site

      No I don't think having a monopoly would be in any way a good thing.

      Sorry guys.

    11. Re:This can't be good in the long run by GreyPoopon · · Score: 1
      I live in Australia where there is a "Duopoly" (2 companies own all the cable/ phone lines) We now can't buy an affordable plan with more than about a 3 to 4.5 GB limit any more.

      I suspect that what you really have going on is "price fixing." I don't know about the laws in Australia, but that's illegal in the US. Even if they were approximately at the same price and one CEO just called the other and said "I'm happy with prices where they are, let's keep it that way," that would still be illegal. On the other hand, though, the government actually has to enforce that law, which it really seems to be reluctant to do here lately.

      --

      GreyPoopon
      --
      Why is it I can write insightful comments but can't come up with a clever signature?

    12. Re:This can't be good in the long run by graveyhead · · Score: 2
      Finally, I'd like to submit one last idea. Right now, there are three technologies that are capable of providing good TV, Internet and Telephony services. That would be the telephone companies' copper (or fiber), the cable companies' coax (or fiber) and wireless broadband. If all of these technologies can provide the same services, I really don't care if each is a monopoly. As long as they compete with each other, prices will go down and service will go up. What I don't want to see is one company controlling all of these technologies in the same area.
      Did you even read past the first page of the article? This is not your idea. Read page 3 of that article: So what if one company controls your cable broadband? There's always satellite, or wireless ... right? Here's the choice quote:
      In the most extensive independent study of broadband to date, the National Research Council came to a mixed conclusion regarding interplatform competition. The report found that interplatform, or "facilities based," competition, is important and should be encouraged. But it also predicted it would not take hold everywhere and should not be relied on exclusively for consumer protection.
      --
      std::disclaimer<std::legalese> sig=new std::disclaimer; sig->dump(); delete sig;
    13. Re:This can't be good in the long run by muzzmac · · Score: 1

      We have plenty strong Price Fixing laws. Unfortunately you have to prove it to do it.

      They don't officially talk but it is easy to see what your competitor is doing and fall in line. No communication. No foul.

      It starts with first party setting poor plans in motion. Many people stay with them as the other providor is not as available as the other. The second weighs this up for a few months and works out how well the competitor is doing. Once it works out the new plans are viable it jumps ship. The only communication has been via the press.

  8. Common carriage by SgtChaireBourne · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Two problems need active correction:

    The decision in March to let cable companies exclude competitors does seem to violate common carriage and will probably disappear after either a short or long series of appeals.

    Likewise with the cable companies deciding what content is allowed on their pipes. I can't see that holding up under scrutiny either.

    --
    Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
    1. Re:Common carriage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Go and read the original Salon article. First step in this process is the ruling that cable companies and phone companies are not required to open their broadband networks to competition.

      The second, and more insidious, step is making internet providers liable for content. That, plus the fact that companies like Time Warner, Comcast etc.. have vested interests in Digital Rights Management gives them motive and incentive to start blocking content.

  9. Wireless... by Cmdr+Taco+(luser) · · Score: 1

    broadband may be the exception that makes all the difference in the future. Especially considering the emergence of new wireless technologies. Satellite, while of limited utility to the common user at this time, may also help prevent control from falling into the hands of just a few.

    --
    All things in moderation.
  10. Well thats it then by Xcrap · · Score: 0

    Looks like I'll have to use my modem forever. Oh wait, I live in an area without broadband anyway.

  11. Great... by jandrese · · Score: 4, Funny

    Despite those dire warnings, the FCC's policy on broadband enjoys strong support. Companies with a stake in the matter are gung-ho for it, at least for their own networks

    In other news, several CEOs were recently admitted to the Mayo clinic with an unusual condition that caused their eyeballs to actually turn into small dollar signs. When asked about his condition, once CEO could not stop laughing manically long enough to answer.

    A spokesman for AOL/Time Warner said he was quite willing to accept customers from price gouging DSL monopolies into his price gouging Cable networks. Comcast could not be reached as their network was apparently down yet again.

    --

    I read the internet for the articles.
    1. Re:Great... by Metaldsa · · Score: 1

      Oh yeah, with telecom stocks down an average of 90% over the last year (and yes that is right if you watch CNBC or other stock channels) they must be rolling in the dough now. Or working as a garbageman if they are unluckly like most telecoms.

    2. Re:Great... by jeffy124 · · Score: 1

      sadly, that's actually possible with certain brands of contact lenses (scroll down a little) ......

      --
      The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
  12. Actually by zephc · · Score: 2

    This is why it is imperative that with like 802.11[a|b] start becoming more prevalent. Net access may be a privilege not a right (for now), but it is becoming more and more necessary to have it in order to function in a technological society. Having a few uber-greedy corps control the access we have to this increasingly-critical medium, is becoming less and less acceptable.

    --
    "I would say that 99 per cent of what my father has written about his own life is false." - L. Ron Hubbard Jr.
    1. Re:Actually by scoove · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This is why it is imperative that with like 802.11[a|b] start becoming more prevalent.

      And other wireless point-to-point and point-multipoint technologies. When I see articles like this one in Salon, it actually encourages me more about competitive service. Being responsible for a broadband network covering half of a state now, here's why the ploys by Congressfolks on incumbent telco payroll doesn't work:

      - it encourages greater ILEC (incumbent local exchance carrier; e.g. your Bell or other quasi-monopoly entity) laziness. Competition is the only thing that gets these inefficient sloths to move, and these recent regs make them feel even safer and lazier. Let their managers spend their days at the golf course, not worrying about CLECs or such sneaking up on them. I can't tell you how many towns I've dealt with which have been told for years by their local carrier or cable TV provider that "broaband is just too expensive for your little town," only to scramble and race to provide broadband service when we activate our service.

      - it forces the competitors to develop a competitive alternate local/regional backbone and last mile: Fixed wireless vendors we work with cannot keep product on the shelf now. The money is pouring into this segment (even though it hasn't caught the attention of Wall Street very much). Manufacturers are racing along with non-line of sight innovations, conversion of multipath into a benefit instead of a problem, etc. Costs for equipment are spiraling downward. This all creates an opportunity for a cost-effective alternative network. Incidentally, futurist talks of "radically cheap fiber" never did explain what catalyst would force carriers to slash their fiber capacity pricing - here's your answer. My microwave backbone covers half a state and costs me a hundredth or less what the same capacity would run leased on a carrier's fiber.

      Bet on more local incumbant and longhaul fiber carrier bankrupcies, as more and more capacity fires up that has costs at a fraction the retail rate offered. And per Salon's worries, regulation of this sort has only fueled circumvention before. People want reasonable cost broadband and no fat, dumb and happy incumbant is going to tell them otherwise.

      *scoove*

  13. mirror w/o ads by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    June 7, 2002 | The Federal Communications Commission is quietly handing over control of the broadband Internet to a handful of massive corporations.

    In March, the FCC ruled that cable companies do not have to open their networks to competing Internet service providers, or ISPs. A FCC proposal to extend the same exemption to DSL service is pending. If approved, the proposal will allow local phone companies, now down to four "Baby Bells," to deny other DSL providers access to local phone networks. Currently, all DSL providers are guaranteed access to phone networks under the FCC's interpretation of federal telecommunications law.

    Telecommunications, cable, and media companies (increasingly one and the same) and their allies in Congress have campaigned for years to deregulate most aspects of the telecom industry. Under the current administration, and the leadership of FCC chairman Michael Powell, those efforts have finally begun to pay off.

    The trend profoundly concerns consumer advocates and some Internet policy experts. They warn that if the FCC goes through with its plans, cable companies and the Baby Bells will quickly establish a monopoly on broadband service over their own networks. Consumers accustomed to thousands of competing ISPs to choose from for dial-up narrowband Internet access will be left with just one or two options for broadband service. One worry is that the lack of competition will yield high prices and poor service. But the far more urgent concern is that media conglomerates will use their control over broadband pipes to restrict access to content, information, or technologies that compete with their own content or otherwise threaten their interests.

    "The past two decades on the Internet have been a uniquely consumer-friendly environment," says Mark Cooper, research director at the Consumer Federation of America. "Now that is up for grabs. The essential ingredient of the Internet was preventing the owner of the facilities from dictating content. Now, eight cable companies will decide what the public will be offered, not 8,000 ISPs." The CFA, along with the Media Access Project, the Center for Digital Democracy, and the Consumers Union are challenging the FCC ruling on cable broadband in federal court.

    Despite those dire warnings, the FCC's policy on broadband enjoys strong support. Companies with a stake in the matter are gung-ho for it, at least for their own networks, and many independent economists and public policy experts also find the FCC's deregulatory approach to broadband enlightened and long overdue. They scoff at the idea that the freewheeling Internet can be controlled by any company or group of companies. And they argue that the current regulations, particularly the open-access requirements for DSL, actually discourage private investment in new broadband infrastructure and technology. Who wants to build a new network -- whether it's DSL, satellite, or "fiber to the home" -- if you then have to share it with competitors?

    If the government steps aside, they say, robust competition will develop between different technology "platforms" such as cable, phone, satellite and local wireless, giving consumers plenty of choices and stimulating a build-out of broadband infrastructure at the same time.

    "If you have competition between platforms, consumers will be better off," says Randolph May, a communications policy expert with the Progress and Freedom Foundation. "The problem is that [regulation] impedes investment and new entrants to the market."

    Further complicating the picture is the massive consolidation in the media and telecommunications industries that has been building for years. That consolidation is expected to accelerate as the FCC throws out limits on how large and broad media companies can grow. Once those limits are gone -- some have already been eliminated -- it is quite plausible that a single media company could control the broadcast television stations, newspapers, radio and broadband Internet access in a single city.

    Even some conservatives worry about this concentration of power among the very companies seeking unregulated control over broadband Internet access. Kenneth Arrow, a Stanford economist who won the Nobel Prize for his free-market theories, supports the deregulation of broadband. But he also expresses concern about pushing reliance on the free market too far. "I am worried about concentration in the media," he says. "That does bother me."

    The heart of the anti-deregulation camp's argument is that the narrowband Internet owes its phenomenal success as an engine of innovation, creativity and economic growth to government regulations that guaranteed open competition. Current telecommunications regulations, originally written to break up the Bell telephone monopoly, require open access to phone lines for all ISPs and forbid the Baby Bells to tweak with the content flowing over their networks. If such protections are not extended to broadband service over cable, and are lifted from DSL over the phone lines, those against deregulation fear that the openness, innovation, and creativity that made the narrowband Internet revolutionary will wilt in the tight fist of corporate control. Huge media companies -- increasingly fearful of the threat posed by the Internet to their proprietary content -- will jump at the chance, they say, to lock things down.

    "There is a fundamental battle going on," said Larry Lessig, a Stanford law professor and an expert on Internet history and policy. "There is a strong political movement to remove all obligations to keep the network open [and] the Internet as we knew it."

    On March 13 the FCC commissioners ruled, 3-1, that cable broadband is an "information service" rather than a "telecommunications service." By toggling definitions just so, the commission cleverly managed to exempt cable broadband -- widely acknowledged as the key communications network of the future -- from all the rules that apply to telecommunications services under the Telecommunications Act of 1996. The most important piece of telecom legislation in 60 years, the act, among other things, requires telecommunications companies to open up their networks to competition.

    This open-access requirement is the reason you can choose from among hundreds of long-distance carriers and from among thousands of ISPs for dial-up access to the Internet. Under the law, local phone companies must allow other companies to sell services over the phone lines, even if they compete with the phone company's own services or products. The Telecommunications Act also forbids network owners from meddling with content on their network. This is why narrowband users -- and thus far, DSL users -- can fax, or talk, or download music off the Internet without permission or fear of interference from the local phone company. The rules were written to prevent the owners of the telephone wires from using their power over the lines to control content or stifle competition.

    Over the past several years, as cable companies have begun offering services generally considered to be telecommunications -- Internet access, digital telephone service, video conferencing -- there has been an increasingly bitter battle between cable companies and consumer advocates over whether open-access requirements and other regulations that apply to telecommunications should also apply to cable. The March ruling settled the question: Telecom rules won't apply to cable broadband.

    The 1996 act defines "telecommunications" as simply "the transmission, between or among points specified by the user, of information of the user's choosing, without change in the form or content of the information as sent and received." Consumer advocates argue this should apply to cable broadband. Although the act, and the FCC, have long referred to high-speed Internet access as "advanced telecommunications services," the FCC decided in its March ruling that cable broadband is really better described as an information service. Although technically still under FCC jurisdiction, there are no significant regulations on information services, which include services like voice mail. As a "declaratory ruling," the commission reached its decision without a hearing or public comment period.

    FCC commissioner Michael Copps, the lone Democrat on the four-member commission, wrote in his dissenting statement that the ruling amounted to a breach of the Constitution.

    "Today we take a gigantic leap down the road of removing core communications services from the statutory frameworks established by Congress," Copps wrote, "substituting our own judgment for that of Congress and playing a game of regulatory musical chairs by moving technologies and services from one statutory definition to another. Last month I remarked that we were out-driving the range of our headlights. Today I think we are out-flying the range of our most advanced radar."

    But the FCC is not stopping there.

    For years there has been clamoring from all sides that the same regulations should apply to all types of broadband access, although opinions differ on what the rules should be, or if there should be any at all. Public policy for broadband is particularly confusing, because the service is offered over cable, phone and wireless connections, and each of those sectors has traditionally had a separate set of regulations. Chairman Powell has made it plain he would like to clear up the confusion and have consistent rules.

    In February, the FCC proposed lifting the current open-access requirement for DSL service. No decision has been reached yet, but now that the FCC has ruled that cable companies will not have to open their networks to competition, and given Powell's enthusiasm for consistent regulations -- or lack of them -- it seems a safe bet the FCC will let the Baby Bells shut out their competitors, too. The logic is essentially that one monopoly deserves another.

    The prospect of broadband provision reduced to a few competitors, each with a monopoly on their own platform, scares the hell out of consumer groups that have fought the creation of corporate monopolies over media and information sources for years. Because media conglomerates such as AOL have begun buying up the pipes that deliver the content they produce, the situation seems even more ominous. In short, consumer advocates worry these companies will mess with content in order to force the Internet to serve their own interests. They argue, for example, that a cable company will never allow streaming video to flow over its cable broadband lines if it competes with its cable television service. Even the right to "click through" to the Web won't be guaranteed, they warn, and companies are likely to turn the Internet into walled gardens of their own content -- think AOL with no escape hatch to Google.

    "The path the FCC is currently on will change the Internet that you know," said Cheryl Leanza of the Media Access Project (MAP), a public interest telecommunications law firm. "Currently, rules prevent phone companies from controlling content in any way. There is no content protection for cable, and the FCC has proposed to take away the protections on content discrimination for DSL. The impact will be breathtaking."

    Like consumer advocates, free-market supporters trumpet the importance of competition among ISPs, and fear a monopoly on broadband. But they think the access requirements and the other rules in the Telecom Act stifle rather than secure competition, innovation and investment, and the monopolist they are concerned about is Uncle Sam. "I'm a lot more worried about John Ashcroft than John Malone," quipped Gerald Faulhaber, chief economist of the FCC from 2000 to 2001, referring to the attorney general and to one of the top power brokers in the cable industry.

    At the heart of the argument that the free market will save us lies the belief that competition between DSL, cable, satellite, local wireless and other technology "platforms" not yet imagined will be more than enough to guarantee that consumers will get the Internet when, where, and however they want it. Even if one company enjoys a monopoly on one of those platforms, the theory goes, it will not amount to a monopoly on high-speed Internet access overall. Better still, they say, encouraging a horse race between platforms will mean that billions of dollars in private investment will pour into broadband infrastructure and equipment.

    "It's clear the FCC is moving toward putting cable off-limits to regulation [under the Telecommunications Act], and I think that's a great idea," said Faulhaber, who now teaches economics at Wharton. "I wish Michael Powell would do more to encourage platform competition. As long as people think this will be regulated, no [competitor] is going to jump in."

    Competition between platforms would indeed steal an awful lot of thunder from those making dire predictions that mega-corporations are about to capture control over the next generation of the Internet. If my cable company won't let me click through to the Web or get streaming video, I can get DSL, or a satellite dish, or a wireless connection.

    But the likelihood that robust competition will actually develop for a majority of households remains a hotly contested question. As of June 2001, the latest official statistics available from the FCC show 2.7 million U.S. households using DSL, 5.2 million using cable modem, and 200,000 broadband via satellite. Fifty-eight percent of U.S. zip codes (not necessarily households) had more than one broadband option available. Twenty percent of zip codes had no broadband service at all.

    Advocates of broadband deregulation tend to be very optimistic about the potential for interplatform competition to improve; its critics are not.

    The pessimists say that cable is too far ahead, that DSL doesn't have the bandwidth to compete with cable on key applications like video streaming, and that satellite broadband -- besides its tiny market share -- works well for downloading but not uploading. "In the abstract, no one would deny that 10 different platforms would be good," said Leanza of the Media Access Project. "But it's naive to assume that most people will have more than one platform available."

    Optimists point out that DSL is catching up and network upgrades would make it just as fast as cable modem, that satellite is a real option just needing time to develop, and that new options like local wireless, fiber to the home, even networks over power lines, will take off if local, state and federal bureaucracies would stop standing in the way.

    In the most extensive independent study of broadband to date, the National Research Council came to a mixed conclusion regarding interplatform competition. The report found that interplatform, or "facilities based," competition, is important and should be encouraged. But it also predicted it would not take hold everywhere and should not be relied on exclusively for consumer protection.

    "The report found that facilities-based competition is important, but don't assume you're going to get it," says David Clark, a computer scientist at MIT and a coauthor of the NRC study. Some locations, like big cities, might get three competitors, others two, and some just one, he said. Nevertheless, Clark cautiously endorsed the current FCC policy of deregulation.

    "The gamble is to get broadband out there, no matter what it looks like," Clark said. "You might try for a level of competition you don't get. You might gamble and lose. But I would say, get it out there."

    That is a gamble consumer advocates are not willing to take. In their view, the best possible outcome of the bet is bad, the worst case catastrophic. "Even if three top platforms reached every household, we will be trading hundreds of [ISP] choices for three," says Leanza, but she thinks even that number is too much to hope for. "Deregulation can only work if competition is in place," Leanza says. "You can't have both deregulation and monopoly, and that is where we are headed."

    Viewed in the context of the FCC's campaign to deregulate media and telecommunications in general, the concerns about who will control broadband become even more urgent. With quite a bit of prodding from the courts, the FCC has been tossing out or rewriting rules, called "ownership caps," that limit how large and broad media conglomerates can grow. The cap on how large cable companies can grow is gone. So is a limit on how many broadcast television stations one company can own. A "cross-ownership" rule forbidding cable companies from buying broadcast television stations has been scrapped. Another that forbids ownership of newspapers and television stations in the same market is under review, as is a restriction against owning more than one broadcast television station in the same city.

    Analysts agree the regulatory changes already made will soon unleash a new wave of consolidation in the media sector. Among companies that deliver broadband, the consolidation is already under way. In December, AT&T agreed to sell its cable division to Comcast, in a deal valued at $72 billion. If approved, the combined company will have 27 million subscribers, or about 40 percent of the cable market. EchoStar and DirecTV, the top two satellite television companies, have also announced plans to merge. The combined company would essentially have a monopoly on satellite television. The two companies argue they need to merge in order to compete with the likes of AT&T Comcast.

    "At the end of this, one company in a community could own the newspaper, several TV and radio stations, the cable company, the principal ISP -- maybe even the phone company!" said Jeff Chester, director of the Center for Digital Democracy. "This stands the First Amendment rights of citizens in the digital age on its head."

    For those who, like Chester, are worried that deregulation will result in a dangerous consolidation of power among a handful of media companies in traditional media like television, print, and radio, keeping the Internet out of their control has become all the more urgent. In their minds, the battle for broadband could amount to democracy's last stand. "This is a war for the heart of the Internet," Chester said. "Will a few telecoms be allowed to seize control of it, or will it be preserved as a democratic resource? It's David versus Goliath."

    The cable companies and Baby Bells disagree, arguing that there is sufficient competition both within and between platforms and that more can be expected. AT&T's cable division has voluntarily agreed to let EarthLink sell cable modem service over AT&T-owned cable in Boston and Seattle, and it is promising to open more markets soon. But skeptics say the company has been dragging its feet on opening access for years and is giving token access now to head off mandatory requirements as a condition of its pending merger with Comcast, another major cable company. As a condition of the merger between AOL and Time Warner last year, the Federal Trade Commission required the combined company to open its lines to at least three competing ISPs.

    But, oddly, the same cable corporations that oppose mandatory open access for their own cable networks are among the most eloquent and spirited advocates of continued mandatory access for the telephone lines. Both AT&T and AOL Time Warner have asked the FCC to maintain open access for DSL -- a market both would like to crack -- arguing that the rules protect consumers. Both companies oppose placing the same requirements on their cable networks, markets they would like to protect.

    "For decades, the FCC has successfully promoted the openness of our nation's wireline infrastructure," AOL Time Warner lawyers wrote in comments submitted to the FCC on its proposal to eliminate open-access requirements for DSL. "It understood that by ensuring non-discriminatory access to wireline networks, consumer welfare would be optimized."

    Hearing AOL laud the benefits that open access offers consumers on DSL, despite its opposition to such access for cable, triggers eye-rolling fits among consumer advocates who want open access for both cable broadband and DSL. "This double standard illustrates what's at stake," said Chester. "Media giants are manipulating broadband for their own purposes -- not the public interest."

    Asked why AT&T supported open-access requirements for phone lines of local carriers, but not for its own cable network, AT&T spokeswoman Claudia Jones said: "Cable and telephone are different animals. There is ubiquitous competition for cable. Satellite is really bringing competition to the cable market. But there is virtually no competition in the local telephone market. The Bells can't get what they wanted in Congress, so they are looking to the regulators."

    "The hypocrisy is outrageous," said the Consumer Federation of America's Mark Cooper. He thinks getting regulators to overrule Congress is exactly what AT&T's cable division has done by successfully persuading the FCC not to apply open-access requirements to cable broadband.

    In the end, the battle over broadband is about who has control over information. One unlikely but eloquent spokesman for the importance of fair access to information is FCC chairman Powell himself. Speaking at the Broadband Technology Summit in April, an event sponsored by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, Powell said:

    "You name it, and information plays a vital role in making a decision, making a commitment, taking a risk, or agreeing to part with something of value. Often in these transactions the information one has will determine if the transaction is fair, or whether someone gets taken -- the taker having superior knowledge about the deal."

    For those who are convinced Powell's policy on broadband could permanently tip the balance of power over information toward massive corporations, the irony of his statement must be almost unbearable.

    But catastrophe is hardly assured. Perhaps technology and the free market will come to the rescue. They have before. What is certain is that by deregulating broadband, the FCC is taking a tremendous risk that could have unforeseen consequences. A risk few people even know they are taking, fewer still understand, and only four get to vote on.

    The scenario is not new. In 1981, Congress quietly eased restrictions on savings and loan houses, allowing them to invest their federally insured deposits however they pleased, even in, say, junk bonds. In the mid-1990s, the SEC softened rules that had prevented accounting firms from consulting for their auditing clients. Aside from a few stray government watchdogs, a handful of Beltway bureaucrats, and a clutch of corporate lawyers, those obscure but radical experiments in deregulation went unnoticed -- until it was too late.

    1. Re:mirror w/o ads by Ubergrendle · · Score: 1

      Uh oh! Didn't you learn anything from the Replay/TIVO lawsuits? Not viewing the advertisements is ILLEGAL and possibly a TERRORIST act. I am so sad to see Slashdot harbouring so many criminals these days...

      --
      John Maynard Keynes: "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?"
  14. I'm not too worried... by havaloc · · Score: 1

    This will only serve to motivate some clever person with coming up with a broadband solution that doesn't require participation from the cable or telephone companies.

    While wireless isn't there yet, it will be soon.

    1. Re:I'm not too worried... by Bearpaw · · Score: 4, Insightful
      While wireless isn't there yet, it will be soon.

      Who controls access to the airwaves in the US? The FCC. And who controls the FCC ...?

    2. Re:I'm not too worried... by larry+bagina · · Score: 2, Funny

      "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurling down the highway"

      -- Andrew (linux is obsolete) Tanenbaum

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    3. Re:I'm not too worried... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, look at the bright side, if your government skrews you again, there's always laser communications.

    4. Re:I'm not too worried... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tanenbaum was right. Linux is obsolete.

      At the moment it's filling a void quite well, but it's obsolete.

      Hell, the whole hardware architecture that Linux runs on is made up of obsolete bits and chunks.

    5. Re:I'm not too worried... by American+AC+in+Paris · · Score: 2
      Who controls access to the airwaves in the US? The FCC. And who controls the FCC ...?

      <stonecutter>We do! We do!</stonecutter>

      --

      Obliteracy: Words with explosions

    6. Re:I'm not too worried... by pyramid+termite · · Score: 2

      Who controls access to the airwaves in the US? The FCC. And who controls the FCC ...?

      The FCC can't even stop Joe Blow from setting himself up with a 100 watt CB radio and it has a hard time keeping up with pirate AM, FM and shortwave broadcasts. Wireless broadband would be even more of a nightmare to enforce than these would be.

    7. Re:I'm not too worried... by olethrosdc · · Score: 1

      IIRC, bluetooth, 802.11x and other wireless standards work in unregulated microwave frequences.

      The major trouble with wireless is that someone, somewhere, in the particular wireless lan you are in, must be connected to the 'outside' world. Who is going to provide that access? giving his internet bandwidth to others?

      (unless it all somehow becomes a meshed w-lan..)

      --

      I miss my rubber keyboard.(Homepage)

  15. No problem?! by Smallest · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When TimeWarnerAOL (or Disney or whoever else ends up as the big players) decides you shouldn't be seeing this or that website, or sending this or that data down the wire, you'll care.

    Remember, these are the same companies who bought the DMCA - they do not have your interests in mind.

    -c

    --
    I have discovered a truly remarkable proof which this margin is too small to contain.
  16. How is this a monopoly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    The article describes oligarchy, not monopoly. "Monopoly" has more emotional impact, and it is used just for this effect. Either that, or those with limited vocabulary do not even know what an oligarchy is.

    This might be nitpicking, but for this item, the error is right there in the title (the word "monopolies")

    1. Re:How is this a monopoly? by DEBEDb · · Score: 2, Informative

      Either that, or those with limited vocabulary do not even know what an oligarchy is.

      Or those with limited vocabulary are missing
      a word such as "oligopoly".

      Oligarchy effectively describes current US
      political system anyway, though.

      --

      Considered harmful.
    2. Re:How is this a monopoly? by proj_2501 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Heck, oligarchy describes nearly every large political system ever.

    3. Re:How is this a monopoly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh I dont know, here in the Netherlands we have proportional representation and new parties seem fully able to break into the existing order. Hell we just had a new party become the second biggest, of course they are a party of flakes ... but thats besides the point, that just shows that democracy just does not work.

    4. Re:How is this a monopoly? by milo_Gwalthny · · Score: 2

      It's not so bad here in the US as reading Slashdot would make it seem. There's actually a pretty strong thread of populism in all of our national politicians' actions. The very existence of antitrust actions shows that. They only try to slip in favors to their big contributors when they think noone is watching, like in the tax code or in FCC regulations.

      Luckily, there has been the survival of the 'virtuous man' concept in that many Supreme Court justices take pride in their independence and often act counter to the policies of those who appointed them. So the legislative branch will often void actions that are clearly out-of-bounds.

      Like Churchill said, "democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others."

      --
      Milo
    5. Re:How is this a monopoly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The article discusses local monopolies. There may very well be 6 or 7 different companies controlling broadband Internet access, if only one of these offers its services where you live, it's a monopoly, because YOU, the customer, can only choose from one provider.

    6. Re:How is this a monopoly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Oligopoly. Usually the same shitty deal for consumers as monopoly. A tiny number of companies like 4 or fewer control over 60% of a market.
      Oligopolies usually price fix tacitly. By tacitly I mean without calling a group meeting in which they print up a schedule of prices to hold the line on, and also that they usually tend to keep the gougeing low-level so as not to invite government action.


      WHat happened to California in 2001 was the result of collusion among oligopolists like EL Paso and Enron and Duke Power. The collusion was massive and the gougeing was insanely out of control.
      It was like they were celebrating something that presaged the rise their total control over consumers.
      I wonder what that could be? Hint: Enron paid for it.

  17. Re:Isn't long distance telephony bascially owned t by larry+bagina · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Isn't long distance telephony infrastructure also controlled by a few massive corporations? Equal access carrier laws and preventing a single company from owning the whole thing has fostered enough competition to really hammer AT&T, for instance

    Yes, but read the article.

    1. FCC recently ruled that cable companies don't need to make their infrastructure available to competition for broadband purposes. This was discussed on slashdot a while back. This is a horrible decision that should be rescinded, IMO. Local gov'ts generally give cable companies monopoly rights, rights to tear up streets, etc.
    2. FCC is currently considering if equal access applies to DSL over telco lines.
    3. FCC might not require equal access to apply to spectrum-based broadband.


    In order to be a more interesting read , Salon takes a "sky is falling" approach to points 2 and 3.
    --
    Do you even lift?

    These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

  18. is it good? by intu · · Score: 0

    Is full commertsialization really a good idea?
    I believe that some resources should be maintained by government. Especially resources that are vital to security of country.

    1. Re:is it good? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm I still fail to see how cable internet access or dsl internet access is "vital to the security of a country?

      Your kidding right? I think you overstate the importance of technology = to high speed internet.

  19. hang on a sec... by hype7 · · Score: 1

    The trend profoundly concerns consumer advocates and some Internet policy experts. They warn that if the FCC goes through with its plans, cable companies and the Baby Bells will quickly establish a monopoly on broadband service over their own networks.

    not to say this is ok, but isn't it likely that the monopolies would face the same fate as AT&T and get broken up into lots of baby bells again?

    I think this is especially the case seeing the US now has a precedent for breaking up big telecommunications carriers with monopolies. Getting the first one is always the hardest.

    -- james

    1. Re:hang on a sec... by larry+bagina · · Score: 1
      AT&T was a horizontal and vertical monopoly -- they owned the long distance market and the local market (ignoring a few independent exchanges).

      There was no competition.

      AOL Time Warner has cable systems and content systems (if you call AOL content), and they are a large player, but nowhere near a monopoly.

      So now, cable & babay bells may have a monopoly for broadband on their own network. Big deal - cable & baby bells always had a monopoly on their own lines.

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    2. Re:hang on a sec... by Sorthum · · Score: 1

      Well, look at the massive companies we have now *coughVerizoncough*. Doesn't it seem that they're slowly getting back to the point that AT&T was at? Doesn't seem to be much point in breaking up a company if they're going to rejoin down the road...

    3. Re:hang on a sec... by hype7 · · Score: 1
      Doesn't seem to be much point in breaking up a company if they're going to rejoin down the road...


      I disagree. That's like saying I shouldn't take a shower only because I'm going to get dirty again tomorrow.

      Take action as and when necessary. That's what the law is for.

      -- james
    4. Re:hang on a sec... by Sorthum · · Score: 1

      I disagree. That's like saying I shouldn't take a shower only because I'm going to get dirty again tomorrow.

      Hmm... weren't there provisions stating they couldn't rejoin for X number of years? Otherwise they could just become AT&T the next day...

    5. Re:hang on a sec... by unitron · · Score: 2
      "...isn't it likely that the monopolies would face the same fate as AT&T and get broken up into lots of baby bells again?"

      The same phone company that owned the copper in the ground in my neighborhood and held a monopoly on being able to bury telephone lines in our front yards and run them to our houses before the breakup still owned the copper in the ground and held a monopoly on being able to bury telephone lines in our neighborhood after the breakup and still do to this day. That's where the monopoly is, the last mile--the service drop to the house. That's where we need both local and federal government to protect us and to be our watchdog, not to auction us off to the highest bidder (or briber).

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

  20. a right or a privilege by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Somehow I can't see net access or even cable tv access for that matter a right?

    Where in the constitution can you assume that or justify that the above is inaliable or even a civil/moral right ?

    I remember watching C-SPAN as a bunch of cable customers actually got there congressman involved in house hearings of the price of cable tv. Like is an important national interest. Um tv is free to begin with if you haven't noticed. I have failed to live anywere or been anywere were I couldn't get at least one major network.

    1. Re:a right or a privilege by DEBEDb · · Score: 1

      Where in the constitution can you assume that or justify that the above is inaliable or even a civil/moral right ?

      Where in the constitution can you assume that
      Federal Government has a right to create a thing
      such as FCC?

      Ah, yes, the famous "general welfare" clause,
      is that it? Please...

      --

      Considered harmful.
    2. Re:a right or a privilege by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hence the 'yet' part. However, it is not inconceivable that we could become a society heavily dependent on some form of net access just to function as productive members.

    3. Re:a right or a privilege by GigsVT · · Score: 3, Informative

      Where in the constitution can you assume that or justify that the above is inaliable or even a civil/moral right

      Amendment IX
      The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

      Amendment X
      The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    4. Re:a right or a privilege by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes certain rights.....this does not include internet or cable access.

    5. Re:a right or a privilege by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But we are not. The MAJORITY of the poeple do not depend on the internet...they might think they do so they can get the next copy of "The Onion" but still the majority of the traffic on the internet is still sex and SPAM.

      Not something vital to the community, not something vital to national security and not something vital the the economy. The net did not create new business it just shifted it around.

    6. Re:a right or a privilege by invenustus · · Score: 1

      Uh, Amendment 10 is exactly what PROHIBITS the federal government from getting involved in this arena....

      --
      grep -ri 'should work' /usr/src/linux | wc -l
    7. Re:a right or a privilege by alkali · · Score: 1

      Actually, Congress' power to create the FCC comes from the clause which permits Congress to regulate interstate commerce. The point may not be inarguable, but the regulation of the national telecommunications infrastructure seems well within the domain of "interstate commerce."

      There is an interesting constitutional question as to whether Congress can delegate its regulatory authority to administrative agencies such as the FCC. Very roughly speaking, the Supreme Court has held that Congress can delegate regulatory authority as long as the regulatory agency has clear instructions as to what sort of regulations it is supposed to be making. Questions like these are treated in detail in the field of law called "administrative law."

    8. Re:a right or a privilege by GigsVT · · Score: 1

      You are correct. That doesn't mean it isn't a right.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    9. Re:a right or a privilege by geronimo87 · · Score: 1

      Just as long as that one network is not "the WB"

  21. An example of... by alapalaya · · Score: 1

    ...a handful of massive corporations

    I was reading the article on salon.com; and I noticed that the banner was about msn! wow!


    --
    667 The Neighbour of the Beast
    1. Re:An example of... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you got your sig wrong. The neighbor of the beast is 668. 667 is across the street from the beast.

  22. Deregulation is good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Deregulation is a great thing. For the most part, regulations have actually limited my telecomm/net/etc choices:

    - cable franchises to prevent alternative cable companies.

    - Ameritech supporting regulations to keep AT&T from offering local service.

    - regulations that censor satellite cable TV content, thus making me get cable TV year after year.

    ---------

    The intent of some of these stifling regulations is indeed to prevent the big boys like AT&T from getting more power. However, the actual effect has been to prevent competition.

  23. SHHHHH by Metaldsa · · Score: 3, Funny

    "'The Federal Communications Commission is quietly handing over control of the broadband Internet to a handful of massive corporations "

    SHHHH!!! They are doing it quietly dammit! Pass it only in notes with codes or you'll blow the whole thing!

    1. Re:SHHHHH by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Eh.. don't worry about it, it's just slashdot. Nobody important reads slashdot.

  24. and what about this! by hype7 · · Score: 1

    On March 13 the FCC commissioners ruled, 3-1, that cable broadband is an "information service" rather than a "telecommunications service."

    if narrowband is a telecommunications service, how can you argue that broadband isn't? It's just a faster extension of the same basic principles.

    The FCC needs to pull its head out of its ass. It's blipping into an entirely new intestinal reality

    -- james

    1. Re:and what about this! by Grax · · Score: 1

      telecommunication is defined as "communication at a distance". Maybe the FCC commissioners aren't familiar with e-mail, chat, instant messaging, video conferencing, or IP telephony.

    2. Re:and what about this! by Bearpaw · · Score: 2
      The FCC needs to pull its head out of its ass. It's blipping into an entirely new intestinal reality

      I'm sure the FCC -- especially Powell, et al -- know exactly what they're doing. That's the problem. The "free market" babble is a smokescreen.

      Whenever corporations (and/or the lackeys they manage to get into government) talk about "free market", keep a tight hold on your wallet and watch carefully for the slight-of-hand. A truly free market would be the last thing they'd want.

    3. Re:and what about this! by Dr.+Spork · · Score: 2
      If you want better FCC leadership, you have to stop voting for idiots. Whenever Republicans take power they just sell off as much public property as possible to the megacorporations that finance the party. It's not like that wasn't predictable. Despite this selloff, our deficit is growing again at Reaganesque rates.

      One problem with the American system is that when Republican rulers make laws they basically give away all government-administered property and services to huge companies, and it's much harder to take them back. I wonder how long it will be before the US Postal Service is sold off to UPS and FedEx, PBS to FOX, and the Grand Canyon will become a Disney theme park. When that happens, I hope Canada has the heart to issue lots work visas to pissed-off US Americans. I'm thinking about getting in line right now.

    4. Re:and what about this! by SN74S181 · · Score: 1

      I think you'll find that, actually, what 'Republicans' do is give back to individuals (both 'companies' and just regular folks like you and I) what was taken away from them by the government. The Postal Service filled a role for many, many years. Perhaps it's an obsolete notion now, and should solely be maintaining the address space, and the actual carrying and delivery should be done by non-tax-subsidized operations.

      And your assertion about the Grand Canyon is, well, ridiculous.

    5. Re:and what about this! by SN74S181 · · Score: 1
      Whenever corporations (and/or the lackeys they manage to get into government) talk about "free market", keep a tight hold on your wallet and watch carefully for the slight-of-hand.


      And on the flipside, we should trust in the sincerity of the anti-free-market bureaucrats and the big government monopolies, like the postal service???
    6. Re:and what about this! by Incorrigible · · Score: 0

      If you want better FCC leadership, you have to stop voting for idiots. Whenever Republicans take power they just sell off as much public property as possible to the megacorporations that finance the party. It's not like that wasn't predictable. Despite this selloff, our deficit is growing again at Reaganesque rates.

      In reply, I'll make a sweeping generalization like yours:
      Democrats will do anything to pass laws that restrict the rights of citizens.

      Neither of the parties is better than the other. This reminds me of one of the only intelligent comments to come out of Bill Maher's mouth... He said something to the effect that the only difference between Republicans and Democrats is that the Democrats are bought by a group of less scary special interest groups.

      If you think Canada is any better - move there.

    7. Re:and what about this! by Bearpaw · · Score: 2
      And on the flipside, we should trust in the sincerity of the anti-free-market bureaucrats and the big government monopolies, like the postal service???

      Is that the flipside or a flipside? I'm not convinced that there's only two choices.

      (Actually, I'm less and less convinced that it makes any sense to talk about big corporations and big government as if they were opposites, at least in the current US system. That's the way it's usually presented to us, but they seem more like two outgrowths of the same cancer to me.)

  25. TV is free....if you can get it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sorry, just one network does not cut it.

  26. They say this by da_Den_man · · Score: 1

    But it never happens that way

    "If you have competition between platforms, consumers will be better off," says Randolph May, a communications policy expert with the Progress and Freedom Foundation. "The problem is that [regulation] impedes investment and new entrants to the market."

    All this talk about Competition, when they are limiting how many players there are on the field. This same rhetoric has been spouted on so many things in the past, only for it to come down to "Monopolies are good for security and the well being of the economy".

    Why CAN'T I have my own Pipe, and control access to it Myself? Why do I need an ISP, when all I want is a big fat connection with plenty of speed?

    --
    You keep going until you die..."Me".
    1. Re:They say this by GigsVT · · Score: 2

      Why CAN'T I have my own Pipe, and control access to it Myself? Why do I need an ISP, when all I want is a big fat connection with plenty of speed?

      You can, in three easy steps.

      1. Start a small business, it's very easy, you don't need to be a corporation or anything, you don't even have to sell anything, just get a bank account with a business name and an EIN.

      2. Call up a bandwidth broker like bandwidth.com. They are pretty good as far as following through on your order, and getting the local exchange carrier and the tier 1 ISP coordinated, and off their asses. They backload the fees, you don't pay them anything upfront.

      3. Set it up on your end. I recommend a Wanrouter PCI card in a Linux box, it's a little cheaper than cisco hardware, and you get the benefit of being able to firewall directly at the T1, with all the advantages of Linux.

      Of course, this will take a couple months, so plan ahead. You might have to fudge it with the credit references for the Tier 1 provider, but if you are persistant enough, or pay a deposit possibly, then they will go through with it. This will cost $500-$1000 a month.

      There you go. Your own pipe, all the access you want, and you can resell the bandwidth however you see fit.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    2. Re:They say this by proj_2501 · · Score: 1

      This will cost $500-$1000 a month.

      That's quite a bit for 1.5Mbps.

    3. Re:They say this by da_Den_man · · Score: 1

      I say that is a bit much just so I don't have to dea with an ISP. But, then, I still am aren't I? A "Bandwidth Broker". Only they will actually allow me to use my connection any way I see fit? Might have to look further into this en I hit the lottery and can afford that kind of outlay every month.

      --
      You keep going until you die..."Me".
    4. Re:They say this by GigsVT · · Score: 1

      The bandwidth broker just facilitates the initial transaction between you and Qwest or whatever provider you choose. After things are up and running, you never deal with them again.

      You technically still have an ISP, but Qwest et al isn't going to screw with you, they are selling you a pipe and routing, and that's it. What you do with it from there is all up to you.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    5. Re:They say this by crucini · · Score: 2
      That's quite a bit for 1.5Mbps.

      Actually, it's pretty reasonable. You think it's expensive because you're comparing it to "equivalent" consumer bandwidth. However when you pay for the T1 you are paying for N bits per second - when you pay for consumer bandwidth you're paying for the right to use up to N bits per second if they're available. Naturally, anyone selling consumer bandwidth oversells relative to the real bandwidth he bought. At an oversell ratio of 10:1, which I think is common for consumer bandwidth, you could sell 40 384k connections out of this T1.
  27. bundling lawsuit? by aeryn_sunn · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I know in my area (that being Atlanta), one cannot get DSL without having a landline or a Cable Modem without getting cable

    I was wondering if anybody sees this as the same type of monopolistic behavior MS was convicted of when they bundled IE with the OS?

    For example: I have no need for a landline as I have a cell phone plan that gives me more than enough minutes, yet I have to shell out an extra 45 (lets face it, one can barely get a bare bones phone line for less than 45 bucks when all the extra taxes, fees, etc are tacked on) for a phone line so I can have a DSL line. A phone I really never use. Thus my DSL cost is really 85 bucks instead of just 40

    isn't this the one of the issues this article might allude too? shouldn't the government bring a lawsuit against the cable/telcos accusing them of bundling? or forcing their un-related product on us just as MS was accused of?

    Just wondering.....

    1. Re:bundling lawsuit? by tweek · · Score: 1

      Bellsouth actually HAS a phone line that is billed based on a percall basis. I've heard clark howard mention it on his show before. It runs along the lines of 19 bucks a month.

      --
      "Fighting the underpants gnomes since 1998!" "Bruce Schneier knows the state of schroedinger's cat"
    2. Re:bundling lawsuit? by meis31337 · · Score: 1

      Maybe I am being ignorant... but couldn't you just order the voice line then order the DSL line. Once you have DSL over that copper just cancel your dialtone....???

      I actually had a similar experience with too few pairs in my apt. building. The DSL provider wouldn't (or couldn't) get the pairs run so I ordered 4 extra voice lines so the phone company was forced to run the copper. I then cancelled the lines and was happily using DSL...

      And... each voice line was $26/mo...

    3. Re:bundling lawsuit? by bluGill · · Score: 2

      I tried that, they will not allow me cancel the voice line unless I also cancle the DSL. I can get voice only, or I can get DSL and voice, but I'm not allowed to have DSL only.

      Cable internet is just arriving in my area, so I'll be checking them out. I don't own a TV, and they will let me get internet without TV service.

      If wireless was avaible in my area (and I'm surprized it is not) I'd consider going for that instead. I haven't seen it yet.

    4. Re:bundling lawsuit? by Phroggy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I was wondering if anybody sees this as the same type of monopolistic behavior MS was convicted of when they bundled IE with the OS?

      Technically, you cannot have DSL unless you have a phone line. It doesn't have to have voice service on it, but you must at least have a copper pair from your house to the DSLAM (usually to the central office, sometimes to a remote terminal if you're lucky, with a fiber line from the RT to the CO). Since most phone companies keep track of DSL lines based on your phone number (it's basically used as a database key), it would be awkward for them to provice you DSL service without you having a phone number assigned, which you normally wouldn't without voice phone service, but if they had a way to reference it, it could be done.

      But, the cost of a DSL line (usually around $30/month not including the ISP cost) is based on the idea that you already have voice phone service, so some of the costs of providing DSL service (such as physical wire maintenance) are covered by the money you pay for voice phone service.

      It should be possible for you to get a dry line (a phone line with no dialtone) and put DSL on that. This would be cheaper than phone service, but there would still be a charge for it. However, since demand for this is very small, phone companies have no incentive to offer it.

      Does that answer your question?

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    5. Re:bundling lawsuit? by agentmunchkin · · Score: 1

      Currently I live without cable or high-speed internet at home. It became a lose/lose situation for me when they started charging me $10 a month for the privledge of NOT having cable with my cable modem. That, combined with the fact that it took them six days to reestablish my connection when it was knocked out, usually on a monthly basis, made it easy for me to call them up and cancel. The funny thing is, when I called, the woman on the phone asked me why I was canceling. I replied, "I don't want the service." She said, "I'm sorry, that's not an option." I'm guessing she was meaning on her screen, but I just hung up.

    6. Re:bundling lawsuit? by Lowca · · Score: 1

      most phone companies keep track of DSL lines based on your phone number (it's basically used as a database key)

      Then, maybe the phone companies should use a different key, right? :-) Maybe a circuit number would work. I mean, do you have a phone number for your T-1 line? I didn't think so.

      But, the cost of a DSL line (usually around $30/month not including the ISP cost) is based on the idea that you already have voice phone service, so some of the costs of providing DSL service (such as physical wire maintenance) are covered by the money you pay for voice phone service.

      So, the phone company could just itemize such a cost, right? List it on the bill separately?

      It should be possible for you to get a dry line (a phone line with no dialtone) and put DSL on that. This would be cheaper than phone service, but there would still be a charge for it. However, since demand for this is very small, phone companies have no incentive to offer it.

      Actually, there would be a demand for it, at least from businesses, as long as SLA's reminiscent of dedicated lines were put in place. However, phone companies make serious scratch from (and have huge investments in) ISDN and dedicated service - scratch that they wouldn't make if people switched to dry-pair DSL service. So, most ILEC's don't provide it, and they don't have much incentive to build out their networks enough to provide it to people who can't get it (distance limitations, older SLC's, yadda). Some CLEC's (and ISP's using those CLEC's) provide dry-pair DSL wherever they can, but their SLA's don't have teeth; the ILEC's are still in charge of the physical copper pair, and there aren't any laws (like there are for tariffed voice and data lines) that require ILEC's to guarantee DSL service in terms of downtime, ability to get it, etc.

    7. Re:bundling lawsuit? by Phroggy · · Score: 1

      Then, maybe the phone companies should use a different key, right? :-) Maybe a circuit number would work. I mean, do you have a phone number for your T-1 line? I didn't think so.

      Some CLECs like Rhythms (now Worldcom) do this. They offer dry lines.

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    8. Re:bundling lawsuit? by SkyLeach · · Score: 2

      Bullshit. I have Bellsouth FastAccess in Atlanta. I have fiber running through my front yard with an ethernet switch burried across the street. It's 4 wire ethernet running to my switch running PPPoE as the transport protocol.

      So I could cut the phone line and still have Bellsouth's fast access service. I'd still have to pay for it though.

      In addition, I couldn't "opt" out of the installation fee, even though they wouldn't do the installation for my Linux Firewall for me. They wouldn't even give me phone support when their switch had a faulty card because I didn't have Windows 95 installed on my PC. I finally went out to the switch, broke the locks and yanked the $15,000 board out of the switch and called them and told them that the problem was. I didn't tell them I yanked it out, but I did tell them it was "damaged". Fixed the problem tho.

      :)

      --
      My $0.02 will always be worth more than your â0.02, so :-p
    9. Re:bundling lawsuit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      huh. I get basic basic cable for $10 a month and for that I get $10 off my cable modem bill.

    10. Re:bundling lawsuit? by smiff · · Score: 1
      I was wondering if anybody sees this as the same type of monopolistic behavior MS was convicted of when they bundled IE with the OS?

      Microsoft used their monopoly, the OS, to extend to another market, the web browser. Your phone company is doing the opposite. They are using their non-monopoly service, internet access, and requiring you to purchase their monopoly service, the voice line.

      If you don't like the arrangement, you can purchase internet access from any number of alternative dial-up services, cable services, or wireless providers. If you've got enough money, you could even get a T1 straight to your home.

    11. Re:bundling lawsuit? by Phroggy · · Score: 2

      Bullshit. I have Bellsouth FastAccess in Atlanta. I have fiber running through my front yard with an ethernet switch burried across the street. It's 4 wire ethernet running to my switch running PPPoE as the transport protocol.

      Fine. That's not DSL. I was talking about DSL, not all broadband Internet services that may be offered by phone companies.

      I wish people would quit making that mistake.

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
  28. lol.. I catched a glimpse of broadband Internet by Jugalator · · Score: 2

    When clicking the link in the story, I was sent to a page with a huge animated image. It went like this:

    (blurred animated shot in skin tones)

    Some text floating over the picture:
    "Oh... Yes! Oh yes!"
    "Oh... Lower!"
    "Lower!"

    Then the text "Need new glasses? Buy progressive glasses blah blah"

    It was just funny to see how it linked to the story about broadband internet, when the ad content was so similar to what it's mainly used for.

    --
    Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
  29. Hasn't worked yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh I have had 3 non-bell reseller phone companies thus far at my homes. NON OF THEM PROVIDED GOOD SERVICE. They deserved to go out of business. They didn't know the networks, cause they didn't build them. They didn't know how to operate the network ( phone lines ) cause they didn't build them. Everytime I had to call up my local bell and have them take back my phone and isdn service before it work work correctly. Being a utilities ain't all that easy and you consistantly get asked to let other use the service you built without making a promise.

  30. Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    there is in 't much we can do about is there? look at all the bells when they broken them up..most of the mini bells have formed bigger companies in the effort to survive competition. Plus the lobby and pac effort is hugh, so forget about trying to claim monopoly. My suggestion is to bite the bullet and hope sanier form of government comes into power?

  31. Monopolies plural? by GMontag · · Score: 4, Informative

    Okay, first stop misusing the word "momopoly", it is defined as ONE entity controlling a market.

    Second, figure out what market you are talking about. If it is high-speed data access then one company owning the local/regional/national cable infrastructure is not a monopoly IF (as is the case) there are DLS and other providers within that territory. Lookup the famous monopoly case against Celophane, the Celophane manufacturer won because the market was wrapping material, not the fact that one manufacturer makes one wildly popular product.

    Look folks, the more we keep bastardizing the language the more confusing it will be to communicate.

    1. Re:Monopolies plural? by GMontag · · Score: 1

      ugh, I really need to type more accurately ;-)

    2. Re:Monopolies plural? by TweeKinDaBahx · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In MANY cases, the companies ARE monopolies, because they DO control the entire market in an area. For instance, Comcast is the only cable internet service provider in Albuquerque, New Mexico, so they have a monopoly on that market.

      The term is used correctly, and just because there are multiple companies doesn't mean there can't be multiple monopolies.

    3. Re:Monopolies plural? by Noryungi · · Score: 2

      Okay, first stop misusing the word "momopoly"

      "momopoly"? Is that a monopoly on momo or a monopoly controlled by momo?

      Or are you reffering to your mom? This is utterly confusing, I am afraid...

      Sorry... Couldn't resist! =)

      --
      The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
    4. Re:Monopolies plural? by airship · · Score: 1

      First, there is the issue of being a monopoly in a regional market. Then there is also the issue of a cartel, which is composed of multiple companies which are in collusion to create a monopoly. Either way, you end up with complete monopolistic control which is held by more than one company.

      --
      Serving your airship needs since 1995.
    5. Re:Monopolies plural? by icey5000 · · Score: 1

      I like the word cartel* myself, though oligopoly** works quite well too.

      * cartel -- n : a consortium of companies formed to limit competition

      **oligopoly -- A market condition in which sellers are so few that the actions of any one of them will materially affect price and have a measurable impact on competitors.

    6. Re:Monopolies plural? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Momopoly is defined as 'she decides if and when you get access to the cookie jar.'

      Oh, and btw: clean your room!

    7. Re:Monopolies plural? by invenustus · · Score: 2

      I'd take it a step further to look at all ISP's together. You've got your dialups, who (some of them) are cheap, reliable, and compatible with any old computer. Their weakness is their speed, but they're still great for news, email, and instant messaging. Then you've got your cable modem provider - fast and always on, but expensive as hell.

      So even if there's only one broadband provider in your area, it's not a monopoly at all as long as there are other people offering you access to the Internet. If people want to yell at the government about lack of competition, they should complain about handouts of huge chunks of spectrum to broadcast networks for HDTV while there's no decent wireless ISP.

      --
      grep -ri 'should work' /usr/src/linux | wc -l
    8. Re:Monopolies plural? by Salden · · Score: 1

      I think he meant monopolies as in the sense of a customer having only one company to choose from for any given type of service. Ala- DSL (Verizon) Cable (Comcast) etc...

    9. Re:Monopolies plural? by Phroggy · · Score: 2

      Look folks, the more we keep bastardizing the language the more confusing it will be to communicate.

      And that would be doubleplusungood!

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    10. Re:Monopolies plural? by hymie3 · · Score: 2

      Okay, first stop misusing the word "momopoly", it is defined as ONE entity controlling a market.

      As has been pointed out by others, many markets are monopolies--there is one and only one company which provides the desired type of broadband.

      Would you prefer the term 'collusive oligopoly'?

    11. Re:Monopolies plural? by archen · · Score: 2

      The term which is appropriate is known as a "trust", although cartel would probably be somewhat appropriate as well. What a trust esentially is, is a group of monopolies which each claim their stake with a mutual aggreement not to cross into each others terrritories.

    12. Re:Monopolies plural? by jmorse · · Score: 2

      The word monopoly can be used in a plural context by referring to firms with "monopoly power". Yes, the correct noun for such a situation might be "oligopoly" (which can be just as bad or worse than a monopoly) but in general allowing a firm to have monopoly power is bad.

      --

      "You done taken a wrong turn."
      -Bill McKinney, in Deliverance
    13. Re:Monopolies plural? by TheSync · · Score: 2

      If people want to yell at the government about lack of competition, they should complain about handouts of huge chunks of spectrum to broadcast networks for HDTV while there's no decent wireless ISP.

      1) While TV stations will get extra bandwidth during the DTV transition, in 2007 all analog activities must cease, and existing analog channels will be returned. The FCC will then auction off cleared spectrum in the upper UHF band.

      2) No one is watching DTV, so it isn't like there is a cash cow there yet.

      3) DTV may provide opportunities for high-speed Internet service

    14. Re:Monopolies plural? by phillymjs · · Score: 2

      Comcast is the only cable internet service provider in Albuquerque, New Mexico, so they have a monopoly on that market.

      Same in Philadelphia. Another cable company, RCN, tried to come into the city to create competition, but Comcast fought them tooth and nail and kept them out.

      And we are not seeing any kind of advantages because one company controls everything. Comcast's customer service sucks rocks, and my cable bill has gone up and up and up... a friend of mine recently spent three weeks fighting them to get them to fix a problem on their end. I ditched them in January to get DSL because I wanted to run servers in my house. And now the God damned FCC is gonna let the telcos pull the plug on the independent DSL providers and I'll be stuck with Verizon's suck-ass DSL and no ability to run servers in my house for $50/mo like I'm doing now.

      As a side note, it's even worse in Philadelphia if you're a sports fan, because Comcast owns the NHL and NBA teams here. So if you want to watch home games on TV, you have to have Comcast cable TV. Comcast refuses to sell game broadcast rights to any satellite provider, for any price.

      Expect things to get worse once the AT&T merger goes through.

      ~Philly

    15. Re:Monopolies plural? by qwerpoiu · · Score: 1, Funny
      Okay, first stop misusing the word "momopoly", it is defined as ONE entity controlling a market.

      Odd, dictionary.com says:
      No entry found for momopoly in the dictionary.

      Suggestions:

      monopoly
      Monopoly
      monopoly
      monopoly

      For better results, try our search tips.

      Look folks, the more we keep bastardizing the language the more confusing it will be to communicate.

      Yep.
    16. Re:Monopolies plural? by GMontag · · Score: 1

      Would you prefer the term 'collusive oligopoly'?

      IIF they were in collusion, yes.

      Nice to see a well schooled someone here.

    17. Re:Monopolies plural? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      your post would be valid if Comcast were the only internet provider, NOT just the only cable internet provider.

      the MARKET is INTERNET we are speaking of, NOT cable services

    18. Re:Monopolies plural? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so there are more than one internet provider? does not sound like a monopoly.

    19. Re:Monopolies plural? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think he meant monopolies as in the sense of a customer having only one
      company to choose from for any given type of service. Ala- DSL (Verizon) Cable (Comcast) etc...


      Yea, since that is what he said in his post, ant it is correct, to have an illegal monopoly you have to control a market, not just one segment of it.

    20. Re:Monopolies plural? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      neither is appropriate if, as in the case most places with highspeed net access, there are competing providers.

      telco competing with cable = = no monopoly/ogolopy/trust. is this too difficult to understand?

    21. Re:Monopolies plural? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      actually, no, if there is one company providing one type of broadband and a competitor providing a different type of broadband there is no illegal monopoly.

      don't you idiots understand what a market is?

    22. Re:Monopolies plural? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would you say that Ford has a monopoly on the Mustang?

      If so, that is not proper usage and it is the same way you, michael, and these other people are misusing monopoly.

    23. Re:Monopolies plural? by hymie3 · · Score: 1

      Troll, troll, go away.
      Come back another day.

    24. Re:Monopolies plural? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      your ignorance does not make me a troll

    25. Re:Monopolies plural? by hymie3 · · Score: 1

      No, your inability to understand high school economics makes you a poor troll. It's easier by far to troll sucessfully when you actually know what it is that you're talking about.

      If I want interent access, I have to have cable broadband (for reasons that are not germane to this discussion). I have one and only one choice (Comcast). How is that not a monopoly?

      If I were willing to consider broadband as a theoretical whole (but again, not a practical choice for *me* to make), my choices are two: Comcast (cable) and BellSouth (DSL). Both require extra fees to get *just* interent access--cost of cable internet+fee for just cable is equal to cost of DSL access plus fee for just DSL. One company raises/lowers its price by five dollars, the other company follows suit. How is this not collusion (tacit collusion, at the least)?

      Please, oh anonymous one who claims not to be troll, enlighten me. I'm always looking to learn something new or be amused. Nash equibilirium (you would know about that, right, if you were talking about monopolies and oligopolies?) is win for me, no matter what you do.

    26. Re:Monopolies plural? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      price following is only collusion if they are conferring about it. read up on market forces for your answer as to why every gas station will raise and lower prices close to the same time, same idea here, maybe you forgot since you got that highschool econ degree

      you already admit there is competition for broadband there and then claim it not to be competition because you do not like the competing providers for one unstated reason or another. no wonder you can not grasp what a market is and how monopolies are related to them.

      your arguement is "I want a Corvette, but Corvettes are too expensive because Chevy/GM has a monopoly and I don't want a Mustang for reasons I will not go into". sorry sir, the market is personal transportation, not a specific vehicle. don't bother countering that with your riding a bike or the bus, it is just an example

      it is not even an illegal monopoly if competitors choose not to service your area for reasons not related to one/more company(s) keeping them out. does not sound like preditory pricing or anything else is affecting your area by your whining about prices.

      you obviously have no business degree, since your arguement is straight from the arts and sciences department, along with ill informed accusations about educational background.

      now, go back and lookup whatever the case was that the first guy mentioned, look into some business law books on what constitutes a monopoly and investigate other ways that are available to you for internet service if you think Comcast sucks so badly.

    27. Re:Monopolies plural? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like the "troll" is running circles around you.

      Try looking this stuff up and notice how it does not apply to any of your examples:
      http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/m138.htm

      http://www.saint-island.com.tw/fa-law/fl-005.htm l

      Please, keep arguing, you are funny!

  32. Why don't we just read Salon? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd just like to mention that it seems that just about every other story in Salon's tech and business section is getting reprinted here. Actually looking back it's every 4th story or so. At a certain point, wouldn't it just be wiser to link directly to Salon's tech and business page? I'm not trying to troll here, I just notice it because I happen to read salon before slashdot each morning.

  33. Thinning of the masses.. by ldopa1 · · Score: 1

    This has been a long time coming. There have been signs of this kind of behavior all throughout this industry and others.

    With the privatization/deregulation of the Internet, Energy etc, companies are so busy snatching each other up (think Banking, Telcom, AOL/Time Warner, Compaq/HP etc), that they aren't really improving or changing anything except how you trade stocks.

    I think in 20 years, there will be ~10 stock symbols on the entire stock market - you'll have TEC (The Entertainment Company), TTC (The Technology Company), TGC (The Energy Company) etc... It's getting really stupid.

    The point of this? After the Internet has been handed over to these X companies, there will ensue a mad scramble for each other's assets until there is only TIC (The Internet Company), probably run by Steve Jobs or AOL....

    --
    The Dopester
    "Yes, I'm a Karma Whore, but I'm doing it to pay my way through school."
    1. Re:Thinning of the masses.. by jwilcox154 · · Score: 0

      The point of this? After the Internet has been handed over to these X companies, there will ensue a mad scramble for each other's assets until there is only TIC (The Internet Company), probably run by Steve Jobs or AOL

      IMHO, Microsoft will most likely own the internet.


      John Wilcox
      I Am Bill Gatus of Borg, you will be assimi...
      .
      .
      .
      General Protection Fault

  34. Internet access is like road access by Blastrogath · · Score: 2, Interesting

    More and more internet access is a nececary thing to people and companies alike. I think govenment's should treat the backbone connections like a road system, public funding and public access. Think about the economic effects of all highways having unregulated tolls, do we want this for our data?

    --
    "The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." -Plato
    1. Re:Internet access is like road access by TweeKinDaBahx · · Score: 1

      Do you really want the federal government controlling your connection and data?

      I'm sure they'd be happy to, just like they'd be happy to monitor your browsing habits...

      Sure it would be nice, if our govenment wasn't as paranoid about it's own people...

    2. Re:Internet access is like road access by Blastrogath · · Score: 1

      >Do you really want the federal government controlling your connection and data? No, but I haven't seen government roadblocks every 100 miles where they search my car either. Distrust of the government a good and practical attitude, but I trust telcos and cable companies less. I'm also not advocating a govenment only solution, but I do think a publicly owned system may be necacary.

      --
      "The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." -Plato
    3. Re:Internet access is like road access by GigsVT · · Score: 2

      Think about the economic effects of all highways having unregulated tolls,

      Yeah, people who never drive would never have to pay for something they don't use. Sounds like a good deal to me.

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    4. Re:Internet access is like road access by bmajik · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Thats a terrible idea.

      Ask anyone that owns a car with expensive wheels shod with low-profile tires what they think about how the govenrment handles public roads. One pothole and its a bent wheel and an annoying steering wheel vibration until you replace the wheel.. usually at a tune of several hundred dollars.

      Or think of this - the roads are perpetually underconstruction to provide work for the latest general contractor who had a 500 plate at the latest politicians power-lunch.

      Government is the most inefficient possible action agency. It has the curious talent of doing the pathalogically worse possible thing in all situations. Destryoing roads that are good, never fixing roads that suck, always destroying traffic flow for months at a time (i have NEVER seen a sign saying 'fines double in construction zones' and actually seen construction WORKERS in said zone!)

      So, imagine what internet access would be like if the govt managed the last mile. It'd take 3 days for someone to walk over to the dslam and notice that now _both_ power supplies had failed (the primary having failed 6 months prior and no one cared at the time). it'd take another 2 weeks to get someone from the Power-Supply-Installers union to replace them both (finding this person would require 2 or more layers of contracting agencies).

      I dislike big corporate involvement in my data access. I dislike big government involvement in anything. I can choose a different big company, or i can choose no company at all.

      When you try and choose no government at all, you usually end up getting shot.

      --
      My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
    5. Re:Internet access is like road access by Dovregubbens+Hall · · Score: 1
      Government is the most inefficient possible action agency.


      Well, you get what you're paying for. If you start paying more taxes, you'll probably get better service. Works around here.

    6. Re:Internet access is like road access by kindbud · · Score: 2

      Ask anyone that owns a car with expensive wheels shod with low-profile tires what they think about how the govenrment handles public roads.

      Expensive wheels and low profile tires will lead to damage eventually no matter what the condition of the road. In fact, I'll wager that the probability of damage converges on 100% as the tire height approaches zero. This is the price you pay for having low profile tires. Everybody else with properly sized tires gets along on the road just fine.

      Hey, if I have to take your bitching about my SUV, you have to take my bitching about your low profile tires. That's all there is to it.

      --
      Edith Keeler Must Die
    7. Re:Internet access is like road access by catfood · · Score: 2
      So, imagine what internet access would be like if the govt managed the last mile. It'd take 3 days for someone to walk over to the dslam and notice that now _both_ power supplies had failed (the primary having failed 6 months prior and no one cared at the time). it'd take another 2 weeks to get someone from the Power-Supply-Installers union to replace them both (finding this person would require 2 or more layers of contracting agencies).

      You described almost perfectly my nine days of downtime on a DSL line provided by... Ameritech, in Ohio.

      It's not being the government that causes such inefficiency. It's the lack of competition. Or are you used to getting spectacular service from your privately owned cable company?

    8. Re:Internet access is like road access by Strange+Ranger · · Score: 1

      You live in PA ?!?

      --

      Operator, give me the number for 911!
    9. Re:Internet access is like road access by JaguarCro · · Score: 1

      You are exactly right and that is why "Small Government is beautiful" to borrow a phrase from Carla Howell.

      If you are not already you should be a memeber of the LP party

      --------

      Make it a great day!

    10. Re:Internet access is like road access by bmajik · · Score: 2

      I run 50 series tires on my car. 225/50R16 actually. The stock wheels.

      Two of them have bends in the inner lip.

      You are entirely wrong about low profile tires leading to damage no matter what. There are plenty of people running 17, 18, 19, or even 20" wheels and the correspondingly ridiculous rubberband tires. They enjoy the benefits of decreased sidewall flex on well maintained roads -- namely, the track.

      I fail to see how my tires are improperly sized - given they're the stock wheel on the vehicle.

      Incidentally, my tires have nothing to do with your safety (apart from improving it since they happen to have much better wet and dry characteristics than the "all season" garbage most tire manufacturers put on cars these days), they dont impede your ability to see around my vehicle, they help my car have one of the best stopping distances ever recorded, and so on.

      Theres actually nothing to bitch about at all.

      So no, I don't quite see where you get off justifying SUV ownership, or comparing it to wheels that get bent on miserably maintained public roads. I think rice-wheels and the tires that go with them are ridiculous just like everyone else. But I run a street tire on the OEM wheel.

      --
      My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
  35. Re:Isn't long distance telephony bascially owned t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Isn't long distance telephony infrastructure also controlled by a few massive corporations?

    Yep, and back in the day it was all controlled by ONE company, unntil that one company ASKED to no longer be the monopoly utility for LD service.

    It was the government that made ATT a regulated monopoly and it was business that introduced competition.

  36. waste of karma here but by JeanBaptiste · · Score: 1

    once again, anti-capitalism, anti-capitalism, anti-capitalism.

    Terrible how these big evil greedy companies are just screwing us in yet another way.

    An alternative way of looking at this is that SOMEBODY needs to provide this service and I dont think mom n' pop ISP has the capacity to handle this. I don't think anyone is planning on providing the service for free as most slashdotters think it should be. Its not a 'right' if other people have to pay for it.
    Also, I think the term monopoly is bandied about far to much these days: Now, eight cable companies will decide what the public will be offered Doesnt sound like a monopoly to me!

    1. Re:waste of karma here but by negacao · · Score: 0

      Eight cable companies, but only one in your area.

      For example, I'm stuck with Comcast. There may be 7 other cable companies, but I do not have a choice.

      I'm not spending ~ 85$ a month to get a DSL simply because I don't have a landline. (Well, that would only be a possiblity if DSL was available in my area....)

    2. Re:waste of karma here but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Eight companies nationwide - there is only one cable company in my area.

      Unlike what most people assume, THERE can be multiple monopolies. If they divide up the country geographically and ensure that ONLY ONE (hence, mono) cable internet service is available in any given city, they are monopolies!

  37. What this article fails to clearly address... by morhoj · · Score: 1
    Is that the term "monopoly" is changing a bit. I've read a few articles from Powell, and his basic stance is with the way things are going, everything is becoming an information service, and the traditional communications veritcals are disappearing.

    Look at it this way... the overall product being delivered is broadband internet. Unlike a "traditional" monopoly, where one company controls all elements of one product, broadband internet is a product that can be delivered by several different means that go outside the normal definitions of a monopoly.

    You can get broadband from telephone systems, cable systems, wireless systems, etc. Each of these systems are independant technologies with their own sets of regulations. Interestingly enough, they are also technologies where the broadband internet is a second use application, i.e. phone calls over DSL, television of cable internet, etc.

    Its a new media, and an interesting era, and change is needed to diversify the methods that we are able to access the overall "information service". Personally I think its a good move... all of these dire predictions over regulation of content are ridiculous... no one would ever stand for it. The bottom line is that new rules are needed for a medium that doesn't apply to the old set. It may not be the best move, but at least its a move.

  38. Choice Paranoia by flyingwolenza · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The majority of consumers can take their pick from 2,3 & 4 broadband providers right now (not resellers). WiFi and 3G will add additional choices. Seems like competition to me - how would a few shoddy DSL resellers improve the situation? I know I *loved* my DSL through Flashcom & Northpoint.

    1. Re:Choice Paranoia by sapped · · Score: 1

      Oh come on! Where do you live? Out here (in LA) I only have 1 choice of Cable (ATT) and 1 choice of DSL (PacBell). Neither of them are "driving prices down" because they have reached a cushy level where both companies charge what they feel is right. The only way you can have real competition is to have companies competing in the same market. I.e. more than 1 cable provider, more than 1 DSL provider, etc. Anything else is just a farce paid for by the companies trying to promote their own BS.

    2. Re:Choice Paranoia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where the hell do you live? Unless you're among the 30 or so percent of US residents lucky enough to live in an area that the phone or cable companies deem "profitable" (read: can gouge however they see fit), you have 2 choices: dialup, or buy your own T1. Satellite theoretically works, but unless you're already in an area with other broadband options, odds are you'll still need a dialup connection in order to use it. I'd take even a shoddy DSL provider over the sub-33.6 dialup I'm able to get. Even if it's out half the time, I'm still ahead.

  39. A solution for this mess? Why not try CPIP? by Jugalator · · Score: 2

    Another good reason to use the Carrier Pigeon Internet Protocol (yeah, correct link, it's *also* on Salon.com - how convenient). The details here.

    Transmitting IP Datagrams over Avian Carriers simply has to be a way to avoid these mega corporations getting control over these common, often fiber based transmission techniques.

    But I'm sure there will soon be a Pigeonsoft breeding huge amounts of pigeons for the sole purpose of pissing of others. And of course, the technique of training them to carry datagrams will be patented. And if you try to understand how it works, you'll be sued by the PPAA (Pigeon Protocol Association) for "infringing on intellectual property". They will use the PMCA (Pigeon Master Copyright Act) to support this claim in court.

    That's the world we're living in.

    --
    Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
    1. Re:A solution for this mess? Why not try CPIP? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Will this give FidoNet and Amateur packet radio a chance for a comeback?

  40. It should be expected by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 1



    While we criticize China, Saudi Arab, and Singapore for their "Net Censorship", the fact is that the US government also wants to censor the Net.

    It's just that there are LAWS in the United States that guarantee freedom, such as Free Speech and such, and Uncle Sam can't do what China or Singapore have done - direct censorship.

    Therefore, to achive their goal of censoring Internet, the US government uses another tact - Censorship Through Monopolies.

    You see, if you have LOTS AND LOTS of Internet Providers, it is next to impossible to have any meaningful censorship, for anything that ISP A censors, ISP B can provide, and so on.

    But if you have MONOPOLY controlling the access of the Net, then censorship will comes easy. As long as the Monopoly controls the access for ALL Americans, whatever the Monopoly provides, the Americans, no matter who they are, have NO OTHER CHOICE !

    Difficult times awaiting the Americans, in term of FREEDOM OF ACCESS.

    Let's hope that someone from America, be it individuals or groups, stand up in opposing this slowly but surely encrouching censorship.

    It is said that if you throw a live frog into a pot of boiling water, the frog will jump out of the boiling water.

    But if you put a frog into a pot of cool water, and you slowly turn up the heat, the frog won't know the difference, and before it realizes, the frog gets cooked.

    Let's hope that the Americans won't get cooked.

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
  41. Ye Olde Newse by TweeKinDaBahx · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This has been goiong on for a while now, and in all but a few big cities, a single company has the monopoly on broadband... If it's even availible.

    Something we need to realize is how the companies veiw this situation (which the salon article does a wonderful job of NOT exploring). Most comapanies who provide broadband service are not making any money off of it yet. The demand is high, but the cost of bandwidth is currently higher. Many of these companies see the only way that they can turn a profit is to be the sole provider in a service area; which, to an extent, is viable.

    I saw another comment which touched on the long-distance carriers. This is a perfect example of what may or may not go wrong. On one hand long-distance service is cheaper and more versitile than ever, but on the other hand these companies have had a similar situation to their current on for some time now, and it has only been recently that the large carriers are providing the 'low, low rates' that one sees today.

    It's hard to say whether or not deregulation like this could bolster the industry. On one hand the demand exists everywhere, while at the same time the per capita demand is often not great enough to warrant a company to provide service in an area (as with ruby ranch). On the other hand, deregulation could spawn an explosion of service in areas which the cable companies and 'baby bells' (which aren't small in any sense) in areas they once thought to risky to warrant the investment of time and materials.

    I'm all for it, because I know that a big part of what's holding back many telco's and cable companies in rural areas is the fact that they have to share their lines (which means they make the investment, but get no return). These companies could make an investment and have a guaranteed return, (provided their business analysts have studied an area well enough).

    Hopefully, regardless, cable internet service will be availible in my area by the end of september, after 6 years of 'cable for christmas'.

    1. Re:Ye Olde Newse by catfood · · Score: 2
      ...a big part of what's holding back many telco's and cable companies in rural areas is the fact that they have to share their lines (which means they make the investment, but get no return)....

      Incorrect. The ILECs can and do charge for line-sharing, often to excess depending on the pliability of state regulators.

  42. Seems obvious.. by josh+crawley · · Score: 2

    Well, I know what it'll eventally happen.

    We'll have a few large mega-corps do ISP jobs and backboning strcture. Well, eventaually be slapped down by a shitload of consumers, finding out they can't even have "servers". Lots of people run P2P, well that's half server/half client.

    I see bandwidth being charged in the same wasy as electricity is today. However, in the 'packet' system, you pay only for packets sent out, not in (EG: the Snail Mail system). Since somebody's paying to send those packets to you, they're paying. That also eliminates hackable heuristics on wether packets are a flood/DDoS/whatever.

  43. Was the phone monopoly bad? by Peeing+Calvin · · Score: 1
    Most people here are too young to remember Ma Bell. Ma Bell 0wned the phone system in the US and Canada for 80 years. Government-sanctioned monopoly. And it worked: service was reliable, and Bell's primary goal was making the system the best possible phone network in years.

    Then the government decided to trust-bust them. What did that get us? About five hundred new area codes (and that was just in California), and huge delays to get any changes in service or new lines.

    I'm not saying that the Internation Internet Corporation would necessarily be a Good Thing, but in some instances there is something to be said for monopolies, IF they act in the best interest of the network (like Ma Bell did), and IF their prices are federally controlled, because they have the muscle to see that changes that need to be made get made, without dealing with a lot of BS from eight hundred other competitors.

    1. Re:Was the phone monopoly bad? by TweeKinDaBahx · · Score: 1

      The main difference is that Ma Bell was a national monopoly, whereas these companies would only be monopolies in certain areas.

    2. Re:Was the phone monopoly bad? by milo_Gwalthny · · Score: 2

      When I was a kid and we would call my grandparents in Florida, they would always say "this must be costing you a fortune!" Well, no, not since they broke up Ma Bell and gave us some competition. A few more minutes on the phone with my grandparents, to me, is worth having a few extra area codes.

      --
      Milo
  44. Yeah; it'll be like a combined telephone/TV ... by jc42 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There will be several "competing" giants, but in your neighborhood, you'll only be able to subscribe to one of them. They'll tell you the price, take it or leave it. All ports will be blocked on your end, so you won't be able to put up your own "content". It will only exist so that you can connect to commercial sites.

    Also, as in the first century of the phone system (and most current cable TV systems), it will be illegal to connect anything not on the approved list. This list will include the latest releases from Microsoft, and nothing else.

    If you don't like it, well, you don't have to use it. Connectivity is a privilege, not a right.

    Then, after maybe a century, we'll have some new laws making it legal to connect your own equipment that runs unapproved software. At that time, we'll see a huge expansion of the Internet, as the first innovations in many decades hit the market and the companies upgrade the lines to more than 100KB.

    Remind yourself that if the old Bell monopoly were still in place, we'd still be using the old black rotary phones, one per customer unless you pay a surcharge for an extension line. Also, note that right now most of the cable companies are blocking port 80, preventing customers from being "producers" and limiting them to a "consumer" status. And we've read the reports that MSN has been buying up ISPs and blocking email access to everyone but Windows users.

    --
    Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  45. No, think farther. by beleg777 · · Score: 1

    If it drops the cost of broadband and increases the bandwidth becuase tehse companys can afford to do it i have no problem

    And that kind of short sightedness is exactly the problem. That is only good in the long term. These companies aren't giving you cheap access because they want to, it's because they get business out of doing it. Once someone has an actual monopoly the prices shoot up and it's too late to do anything about it. As long as there are a few corporations, and they are actually competing, things wil be ok. When they coordinate to price gouge or when one gains control of the entire market then the consumer is screwed.

    --

    Science may someday discover what faith has always known.
  46. Black rotary phones??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Remind yourself that if the old Bell monopoly were still in place, we'd still be using the old black rotary phones

    Years before it fell, I was using beige Touch Tone phones.

  47. Not here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In the US, the government controls the corporations, and forces the corporations to pay a massive financial tribute to the government (corporate taxes far exceeed corporate welfare).

    If corporations controlled the government, there would be no corporate taxes, and no regulations on corporations. Both are far from the situation right now.

    1. Re:Not here by geronimo87 · · Score: 1

      Large corporations love governnment regulations, because they do far more damage to small businesses than they do to the large corps.

    2. Re:Not here by Beliskner · · Score: 1, Offtopic
      and forces the corporations to pay a massive financial tribute to the government (corporate taxes far exceeed corporate welfare).
      Trash, if you look at it overall corporations don't pay taxes.

      For more details read this, what's that? Shall I quote it? Mmmmmmkay

      the federal budget is top-heavy with corporate welfare. Counting tax breaks and expenditures, corporations and the rich snuffle up over $400 billion a year-- compare that to the $1400 billion in total expenditures, or to the $116 billion spent on programs for the poor.

      Where's all that money go? There's direct subsidies to agribusiness ($18 billion a year), to export companies, to maritime shippers, and to various industries-- airlines, nuclear power companies, timber companies, mining companies, automakers, drug companies. There's billions of dollars in military waste and fraud. And there's untold billions in tax credits, deductions, and loopholes. Accelerated depreciation alone, for instance, is estimated to cost the Treasury $37 billion a year-- billions more than the mortgage interest deduction. (Which itself benefits the people with the biggest mortgages. But we should encourage home ownership, shouldn't we? Well, Canada has no interest deduction, but has about the same rate of home ownership.)
      So, since corporate welfare goes only to big corporations that means it's entirely possible (qualitatively) that their tax bill is zero.
      --
      A caveman dreams of being us, the incalculable power and riches. We dream of being Q, then what?
    3. Re:Not here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      can you say campain contribution ?

  48. you forgot something by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you don't think corporations don't have armed forces, then you have never met an angry hord of lawyers

    Lawyers derive their power from the government. To clarify, they have no power unless a government backs them up.

  49. My, what phat pipes you have, gran'ma! by flacco · · Score: 2
    The Federal Communications Commission is quietly handing over control of the broadband Internet to a handful of massive corporations

    "All the better to monitor you with, my dear."

    --
    pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
  50. And the bell tolls... by Rogerborg · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...for unfiltered IP access. As the article so insightfully points out, the issue isn't cost or even availability, it's that pretty soon the companies that rent you a cable modem or DSL connection will be the same companies that own (or have an interest in) a whole stack of content. These are the people who bought the DMCA, the people who want to buy DRM legislation like the SSSCA in its various incarnations. Now they will control the creation, the ownership, the distribution and the delivery of content. So much for the original intent of copyright law.

    Ask yourself this: when your choice of access is a subsidiary or partner of either Disney or AOL-Time Warner, why would they even need to buy legislation? For your safety and convenience, they can just block everything except port 80, map that to their caching proxies, and firewall off any part of the 'net that challenges their profit models.

    You think they won't or can't do it? Why not?. The FCC's position is that competition should be across technologies, not within technologies, and they seem to be lumping cable and DSL in as one technology. The cable/DSL providers could offer (e.g.) filtered 2048/64 cable modem or DSL for a giveaway price of $10 a month; if the competition is $100 a month 512/128 satellite service, or a range limited and contended 2.4Ghz wireless service, then that will just about kill off the idea of unrestricted residential (not consumer, dammit) broadband. That's quite apart from rate/bandwidth capping and billing depending on whether you're downloading content that you've bought from your provider, or if you're daring to go out onto the big wide internet.

    Yes, I know that we've no right to demand cheap unrestricted content, and that we should vote with our wallets and so on. But here's something to think about. If you truly believe that an unregulated free market will take care of this, then you wouldn't object to a shell corporation representing the Chinese government buying AOL-Time Warner or AT&T-Comcast and owning 40% or more of the cable networks in the USA, right?

    I use that example because the free market, in its purest sense, means that anyone who can afford to buy or do something should be able to do it. The assumption is that purchasing power is obtained through persuading people to give you money of their own free will, and that your actions will continue to be along those popular lines. There are holes big enough to sail an oil tanker through in that theory, the biggest being that once you get in a position to demand money, or you sell a service that has no effective competition, or (my example) you are spending the taxes you collectd from taxing a billion people, then you can continue to leverage that hold indefinitely, especially if there's a large capital investment cost to entering the market.

    Capitalism suffers from exactly the same problem as communism: it works great in theory, because it assumes that people are basically good and honest and will cooperate with the spirit as well as the letter of the system. In practice, any system of human governance or interaction requires constant vigilance to prevent tyranny, even if that tyranny comes wearing a pair of big friendly round Mouse ears. I think we need to be asking our government if they understand that the whole point of the Constitution and of the American State is to prevent situations where We, the People can be oppressed and (de facto) taxed without representation. I'd say we're well past that point already; the only question is how far we'll push it before we either see mass civil disobedience, or we tear up the Constitution and start over with a political version of an End User License Agreement, complete with all the usual disclaimers of warranty.

    --
    If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    1. Re:And the bell tolls... by Frequanaut · · Score: 1


      When they block everything except port 80, thats all everything will use.

    2. Re:And the bell tolls... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and you say that like it's no big deal. Dickwad.

    3. Re:And the bell tolls... by 5KVGhost · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Capitalism suffers from exactly the same problem as communism: it works great in theory, because it assumes that people are basically good and honest and will cooperate with the spirit as well as the letter of the system.

      You are very mistaken. Capitalism works precisely because it does _not_ assume that people are good and honest. Capitalism assumes that people will act out of self-interest, which is usually true.

      If a broadband provider in your area is charging too much or blocking access to things people want, then it's only a matter of time before another alternative is developed to take its place. Someone else will see that there's an opportunity to make some money or spread some goodwill. Intelligent regulations don't make these corrections happen (they happen anyway) they just keep things moving a bit more smoothly.

      The subject under discussion is specifically an example of what happens when capitalism is not allowed to correct the problem. The cable companies and other broadband providers got where they are because they were granted an artificial monopoly where competition was prohibited by the government. Some would claim that those were necessary incentives to encourage the huge investment needed to create the infrastructure needed, and that may have been true. But removing those antiquated regulations would change everything. Adding more won't change anything, at least not for the better.
    4. Re:And the bell tolls... by mschachter · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      Just an insignificant comment, but why the fuck is everyone always saying "capitalism works because ...".

      Tell me how capitalism works. Tell me how it helps out the poor. Tell me why it's ok for wealth to be amassed in the top few percent of the population, while people die all over the fucking world because they can't eat. Tell me why it's ok to buy a "vote" in a free market with money, when most people don't even have enough money to pay the bills. Tell me why exploitation of cheap labor is a good thing. Explain to me why the people who support capitalism aren't the ones that suffer from it.

      Please clear this up for me. And don't pick just one comment in here that you disagree with, and argue that. Explain the big picture, about how this "capitalism" works for everyone, about how it makes everyone's life better. Because I'm ok with being wrong, but I haven't heard a fucking thing that would make anyone else right.

    5. Re:And the bell tolls... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      EULA ??? oh yeah!

      that works just so great.

      lets tear up the bill of rights and make a it a
      shrink wrap license agreement

    6. Re:And the bell tolls... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "If a broadband provider in your area is charging too much or blocking access to things people want, then it's only a matter of time before another alternative is developed to take its place"

      And then it is only a matter of time until disney/aol buys them out. Thats what happens when you have more money than god.

    7. Re:And the bell tolls... by warpSpeed · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is good in theory, but if the local provider has a lock on the market, and is blocking content, there is not going to be much you can do. You are dealing with a high infrastructure cost medium. There is a high barrier to entry into the market.

      If (and this is a big if) some other provider wants to get in on the action, the first provider (for all intents and purposes a monopoly) can easly squeeze the new provider by dropping thier price and or loosening up the control over the content to passify their current clients.

      Even if a second provider wanted to get into the local market they would have to be highly capitalized and would probably resort to the same tactics (almost collusion) that the first provider resorted to.

      Just look at all the CLECs carcases near the baby bells. Do you think that Verizon, and all their evil bretheron, just passivly sat by while new competition was gaining a foot hold. Hell no, they fought them every step of the way, in the courts, with predditive pricing, and sloppy/incopentent service.

      I hate to say it, but there needs to be strong regulation of at least the last mile or there will never be any competition.

    8. Re:And the bell tolls... by flatrock · · Score: 2

      Isn't this the real issue? Broadband is still an emerging technology, and it's one that requires incredible investments in infrastructure. The fact that Cable has gotten off to a good head start doesn't mean other technologies won't be able to provid competition. The real issue for me is unfiltered internet access. I was the law to guarentee that my isp, whoever that is doesn't spy on me. This means they can't choose to filter content unless legally required to do so. They shouldn't be able to look at my emails, or track what web sites I access. They shouldn't be able to block emerging technologies that compete with their content that they wish to provide. That's really more of a problem, than trying to force competition at every level of the system. I really don't want to interact with my ISP other than to have them provide email and maybe usenet. Other than that I only deal with them when there's a problem, and not having a seperate ISP and provider for the line usually seems to simplify getting support on those few occasions it's necessisary.

    9. Re:And the bell tolls... by Artifex · · Score: 2

      If (and this is a big if) some other provider wants to get in on the action, the first provider (for all intents and purposes a monopoly) can easly squeeze the new provider by dropping thier price and or loosening up the control over the content to passify their current clients.

      If the threat of a competitor gives a monopolist incentive to provide service that better meets the needs of consumers of that service, then it is essentially behaving competitively to the market, anyway. Sure, they do retain some monopolist power in an economic sense, because of the barriers to competition, but new technologies (as mentioned in the story, wireless, etc) erode those barriers constantly. However, the real problem monopolies are those created by the FCC when it sells spectrum licenses, because until the new whiz-bang spread-spectrum chips really get going, the wireless data market will stay more limited than the telco and cable markets have been.

      I hate to say it, but there needs to be strong regulation of at least the last mile or there will never be any competition.

      As long as you cling to the idea that there has to be a physical last mile, probably so. The way things work now, even if you have many DSL vendors with access to the DSLAM in your area (or whatever equivalent exists in the cable world), you can still only subscribe to one at a time. You can't use both Verizon and Speakeasy, for example. However, if you eliminate the dependence on poking a hole in your wall for each connection, fiber or copper, and go with wireless, you have another order of options, entirely. Suddenly you allow for the creation of routers that can shunt your data over whichever wireless provider has the best rate and QoS at any given time. If one wireless provider has crappy service, there will be others (if we can ever get rid of the idea that one company has to license one block of the spectrum, instead of everyone using spread-spectrum devices) who can pick up the slack, without you having to wait for customer service to call you back or for technicians to come fix a busted circuit.

      By the way, this is where the internet really becomes able to "route around damage," unlike the way things are today, where, if you're not a big business, you rely on one ISP to get you to the internet. If you feel monopolists are giving you the squeeze right now, then you should feel compelled to convert everyone to wireless, like I'm doing =)

      Disclaimer: I don't own any wireless stock, and in fact, I own JDSU stock, which I'm down 90% on so far, and will continue to lose money on, if people don't use more fiber. But all those wireless providers will need OC-48s and above, hopefully =) Or you could just take that as a sign that I have no idea what is going on, and ignore me =)

      --
      Get off my launchpad!
    10. Re:And the bell tolls... by Daetrin · · Score: 2, Informative
      You are very mistaken. Capitalism works precisely because it does _not_ assume that people are good and honest. Capitalism assumes that people will act out of self-interest, which is usually true.

      Sorry, Capitalism doesn't really assume that people will be good, but it does assume that they will play fair.

      Somehow when an area is dominated by one corporation who is overcharging for bad service, a small company is supposed to be able to start up and offer some innovatice new approach which will lead to competition, improved service, and cheaper prices for everyone. After all, when confronted with a cheaper better product, the larger company will have to improve to stay competitive, right?

      Well what if instead of playing fair the big competitor does a little more marketing, and then drops the price on their product to less than it costs to make it? Or if there's a high barrier to entry into the market, they don't even need to drop it that low, just below the price for the new company to provide the service given the added entry costs. Wait a few months, new company goes bankrupt, big company raises the rates again.

      That's not how capitalism is supposed to work, and the only reason it doesn't happen more often is because the Government stepped in and made laws to try and make the coporations "play nice."

      Yeah, communism is even more idealistic and way ahead of it's time, but Capitalism takes a lot of things on faith too.

      If the corporations ever got big enough and the government looked the other way long enough, you would eventually find corporations buying "compulsion" lisences, either secretly or out in the open. Mafioso guys showing up at your door to convince you to shut down your new startup operation is not what Capitalism is supposed to be about, but it is a realistic extension of the idea.

      Even Adam Smith himself believe that fair play was needed in order for capitalism to work successfully.

      --
      This Space Intentionally Left Blank
    11. Re:And the bell tolls... by XNormal · · Score: 2

      Capitalism suffers from exactly the same problem as communism: it works great in theory, because it assumes that people are basically good and honest and will cooperate with the spirit as well as the letter of the system.

      Oh, that's not the real problem. Capitalism works just fine. It's corporatism that sucks.

      --
      Stop worrying about the risks of nuclear power and start worrying about the risks of not using nuclear power.
    12. Re:And the bell tolls... by cduffy · · Score: 2

      Depends on where your goals are. If you want everyone to have about the same amount of money, if you want everyone to be fed without regard to their ability to produce, if you think that people should be given influence over others merely for existing rather than for what they provide to society -- then capitalism is without doubt an absolute failure.

      Those aren't my goals. "Making everyone's lives better" isn't my goal either. Like everyone else, I'm selfish -- I want a system which promotes production (so I can get the things I want cheaply), even if this means that most of the wealth and power go to the few who promote the most production (a consequence I'm willing to accept even if they do this mostly with wealth they mostly inherited); a system which will choose the most efficient means of producing the goods I want (even if that means "exploiting" cheap labor). Finally, I most particularly do not want a system in which force of government is used more than absolute necessity dictates -- I'm far more afraid of the consequences of bad government than whatever the "invisible hand" of market forces may hand me; the former has the potential to be intentionally malicious and far more directly deadly.

      Capitalism doesn't have to work better for everyone for me to support it -- it has to work better for me. I expect you to make your decision based on the system that works better for you -- I simply expect that (if the analysis is made entirely objectively) that system is most likely to be based on a free market economy.

  51. You can vote, but there is only one candidate by Arcturax · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So you either pay up, or go without. How many here would actually give up the internet in protest? Round about none I'd wager.

    --

    --Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop. - Dr. Walter Gibbs
    1. Re:You can vote, but there is only one candidate by 2Flower · · Score: 3, Insightful

      How many here would actually give up the internet in protest?

      An interesting question, but how about this one instead:

      How many here would actually give up BROADBAND internet in protest?

      I seriously considered sticking with my narrowband ISP in protest of the madness that's going on in the cable/DSL industry. Yes, I love high bandwidth, but I love the security / stability / competition / freedom that narrowbanders provide a wee bit more. In the end I went with getting a cable modem once it finally reached my suburb, but if I have to drop it in the future to avoid censorship issues and price hikes and copyright baron monitoring... I will.

      The Internet is only as free as the next link up the chain, folks. Be careful who you latch on to.

    2. Re:You can vote, but there is only one candidate by lynx_user_abroad · · Score: 1
      How many here would actually give up BROADBAND internet in protest?

      I would, and have. I live in the dial-up world (because voice channels are covered under common carrier shield) and probably pay more (about $50 per month) for 28.8Kbps than most people pay for cable or DSL.

      Now on to the next question: Since many people have linked the rise of free software and the popularity of Linux to the widespread availability of the Internet, do you think the free software movement could survive it? Imagine if a certain monopolistic internet service provider formed a corporate partnership with a certain company from Redmond. You make find posts from various kernel mailing lists getting mistaken as SPAM. Your browser may report that the host "linux.org" is down or unreachable.

      --

      The thing about things we don't know is we often don't know we don't know them.

    3. Re:You can vote, but there is only one candidate by Trinn · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Most of us would much rather create our own new "internet" infrastructure than handle the one we are currently stuck with. Software autorouting radios and other similar advances in the 2.4 and 5GHz bands (with 900MHz long-range support) should soon allow us to create grids independant of both wires and the "internet". Internetworking these grids would be a relatively trivial task, now that it's been done once (Internet). Such grids could run any protocols we see fit, and hopefully we will have the sense to not let another ICANN ocurr.

    4. Re:You can vote, but there is only one candidate by GlassUser · · Score: 2

      I have been trying to get people to help me with this for months. Anyone in the houston area want to set up a Free mesh?

    5. Re:You can vote, but there is only one candidate by visualight · · Score: 1

      Yes, I would like a new free internet.

      Here's my proposed order of business:

      Everyone start sharing your internet connection, even if it's just dialup. Use IPv6 as much as possible. Run cat5 to your neigbors house, wireless, whatever.

      We need a routing protocol like P2P where people volunteer to serve as routers and DNS servers.

      A new "internet" will evolve, uncontrollable by anyone. Worth doing I think.

      --
      Samsung took back my unlocked bootloader because Google wants me to rent movies. They're both evil.
    6. Re:You can vote, but there is only one candidate by sholton · · Score: 1
      Everyone start sharing your internet connection, even if it's just dialup. Use IPv6 as much as possible. Run cat5 to your neigbors house, wireless, whatever.

      <sarcasm>

      This sounds great, I already have a couple hundred nodes under my control, can I offer them up for service?

      Of course, I can't offer them for free, but I promise they will be cheap. We'll start at $9.95 a month and 100 free hours.

      And I don't want anyone sharing kiddie porn on my network, so that stuff is out. But that's reasonable, isn't it?

      </sarcasm>

      And now you understand how we got to where we are.

      --
      A new kind of meat designed to appeal to vegetarians.
  52. Explain to me... by silance · · Score: 1

    How services run for profit cost people less than the same service provided by a non-profit institution? Negative effects of no competition? Well... What if massive services such as the Internet were administered cooperatively by multiple groups who compete for "bonuses"? Whoever provides the best performing section of the network for the best price wins a pay increase. Yes, it would make it that much easier for the G-Man to install surveillance equipment, but private companies already are complying. Plus, if mega-corps didn't make unfathomable amounts of money off of what has become an essential element of our right to Free Speech, perhaps they wouldn't have the money to enslave the Third World and get everyone pissed at us...therefore no reason for terrorists to terrorize. Perhaps a bit simple, but IMHO something to look at.

  53. New area codes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We got the new area codes because of new phone users. It had nothing to do with the break-up..... unless the break-up caused there to be more useful things to do with phones (like modems and cell)

    1. Re:New area codes? by Peeing+Calvin · · Score: 2, Informative
      That's a common misconception. We got new area codes because each phone company that moved into an area could only claim phone numbers in 10,000-number blocks. If you've got four companies competing in every rate area, and each of them needs its own 3-digit prefix, you run out of 3-digit prefixes real fast. Instead of the several companies figuring out how to share prefixes, they take the cheap and easy way out: area code splits.

      We have phone companies with 500 customers in a rate area, claiming a big fat block of 10,000 numbers for them. That's 9,500 wasted numbers. THAT's why we have the explosion in area codes.

  54. Half a vocabulary. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    oops. I had half a vocabulary more. I did mean oligopoly NOT oligarchy.

    Another example of the abuse of "monopoly" comes up about every time Microsoft is monopoly. I guess if you say "Microsoft monopoly" enough times, people will believe it, even though the company is not one (it is instead one large popular choice among a dozen or so competing, but less popular choices that have as much as 10% market share)

    1. Re:Half a vocabulary. by milo_Gwalthny · · Score: 2

      Economists often describe monopolies as entities that have more than a 70% or so market share. This is where the inefficiencies of monopoly rents seem to start kicking in.

      So, although 'monopoly' technically means a single seller, it has been used in a broader sense for the last 100 or so years.

      --
      Milo
  55. The Internet? by Epeeist · · Score: 2, Insightful
    The article is important and Americans should be concerned about it. However it has nothing to do with The Internet, it has to with American access to the Internet.


    Seemingly unbeknownst to many in the USA we actually have access to the Internet here in Europe. I believe it is available in Australia and Japan too.


    Certainly in the UK we have similar sorts of difficulties with broadband access, with an effective monopoly supplier in the shape of British Telecom. However, I wouldn't glorify this with an article containing a line like "BT is taking over control of the Internet". Hyperbole anyone?

  56. Let's remember.. by mindstrm · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That the Internet and the networks that happen to make up the Internet themselves are fundamentally two different animals.

    Remember the roots of the word. An internet is a network made up of a bunch of networks.

    The reason the internetworking in general, and the Internet in particular, work, is because we all agreed on some standards, and a global addressing scheme that ensured unique, routable address space.

    Far more important in the long run is making sure that address allocation is impartial and open to everyone. Even now this is erorded.. for reasons that seem unavoidable at present.. but it's still eroding.

    You see, before, you could get a block of address space assigned to you, whether or not your network was hooked to anyone elses. Why would you do this? On the mere POSSIBILITY that one day you would hook it up.
    Everyone could get unique address space, and network together at will.

    Now.. you ahve to prove your precise need for those addresses, and you must get them from your isp. This makes sense if you consider the increasing scarcity of addresses.. but there is a quality that is being lost.

    My point is.. we have to make sure that, regardless of who is offering what, that global IP routability is still there, and that Joe Farmer, if he invents a new transmission method, can get routable address space.

    1. Re:Let's remember.. by overbom · · Score: 1

      It seems you're forgetting about ipv6 -- 32 addresses per square inch of surface area of our planet earth.

      I'm not saying that the situation isn't great now, but once ipv6 replaces ipv4 this attitude will change. Maybe Joe Farmer is on the KAME project and I'm just not familiar with his name... :-)

  57. Competing "platforms" by Irvu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If the government steps aside, they say, robust competition will develop between different technology "platforms" such as cable, phone, satellite and local wireless, giving consumers plenty of choices and stimulating a build-out of broadband infrastructure at the same time.

    "If you have competition between platforms, consumers will be better off," says Randolph May, a communications policy expert with the Progress and Freedom Foundation. "The problem is that [regulation] impedes investment and new entrants to the market."

    Yet:

    Separate platforms exist for separate purposes, and have separate capabilities. While I am as enamored of Bluetooth as anyone it is not the same as a fat cable pipe.

    The FCC rulings do not (as I understand them) prohibit one company from owning multiple "platforms" If the local wireless net, and cable, and DSL all come from the same source then nothing has been gained.

    In any location where one company has a monopoly on most services such as broadband, etc. Where is the incentive to develop a new "platform"? If a town has cable and DSL controlled by AOL then I have little or no incentive to develop a wireless alternative there. The startup costs will be (as they are for anything) huge. In order to break even (until I get a lot of subscribers) I will have to charge more than AOL can charge. So, while I am depleting my cash reserves trying to undersell them they are a) selling at a fraction lower than me, and b) blocking my ads from running and my web page from working on "their" lines and c)running news on their service saying that I torture kittens in my spare time. Then once I'm gone they can jack up the prices again.

    Where is the incentive to invest in infrastructure going to come from? Once you have a service that "works" and are facing no competition, why upgrade? Why waste your cash reserves on making life better for your captive audience when you could be working on expanding your audience.

    Monopolies are only good for themselves, and the economists that they pay.

    1. Re:Competing "platforms" by Peyna · · Score: 2

      Where is the incentive to invest in infrastructure going to come from? Once you have a service that "works" and are facing no competition, why upgrade? Why waste your cash reserves on making life better for your captive audience when you could be working on expanding your audience.

      This kind of reminds me of Ameritech's excuse for wanting to keep people out of the market in Indianapolis. They feel that other companies should have to invest in infrastructure and not be able to use what Ameritech already has in place. Of course, this creates a huge barrier to entry into the market, thus leaving Ameritech to continue with their poor services.

      This past week there was an interesting protest by Ameritech employees during lunch hour that really screwed up traffic downtown. They drove around in their trucks and blocked traffic and people marches with signs; but they were protesting because they say that forcing them to open their networks to competition would: Raise prices to consumers by 40% (ha!), and result in some 5,000 people losing their jobs.

      I don't quite understand how it is going to cost me 40% more if they have competition, and I believe said competition will need plenty of employees as well. If they lose 5,000 people it's because everyone will switch services when they realize how much Ameritech has been ripping them off. Like when they charge me $60 each time I move for 'setup' fees, and how they can take 4 weeks to set up anything.

      --
      What?
    2. Re:Competing "platforms" by Irvu · · Score: 2

      Exactly. Thanks for the great example.

  58. build their own infrastructure by wiredog · · Score: 2
    Good God, can you imagine the hassle if there are 5 or 6 startups all wanting to lay cable/fiber/etc on your street and across your property? Especially since they won't all come at the same time.

    What is needed is one company controlling the local infrastructure, and charging for access to it. The access cost would have to cover the cost of installation, maintenance, and upgrades.

    1. Re:build their own infrastructure by GreyPoopon · · Score: 1
      Good God, can you imagine the hassle if there are 5 or 6 startups all wanting to lay cable/fiber/etc on your street and across your property? Especially since they won't all come at the same time.

      You're right. I thought about this after submitting. What is needed is one company controlling the local infrastructure, and charging for access to it.

      I'm not sure if this is the best idea either, as it still leaves a monopoly in charge of the infrastructure. If the government wasn't at least as greedy as the companies, I'd say they should control it. Unfortunately, history indicates how much of a failure that would probably be. See my response to "johnalex" for some other ideas. None of them are optimal, though. I don't really know WHAT the best solution is for that "last mile" problem. The utility pole in my front yard is looking overloaded as it is.

      --

      GreyPoopon
      --
      Why is it I can write insightful comments but can't come up with a clever signature?

  59. Internet2 by YanceyAI · · Score: 1

    Can someone explain to me how Internet2 relates to all of this. Will Internet2 rely on the same pipes, or are they building a whole new network, pipes and all?

    --
    Can I bum a sig?
  60. Governmental encouragement of internet monopolies. by hateddamntruth · · Score: 1

    I see why, in this day and age, I am still dialing in with a friggin' modem.

  61. Re:Isn't long distance telephony bascially owned t by invenustus · · Score: 1

    Local gov'ts generally give cable companies monopoly rights, rights to tear up streets, etc.

    Well that's your problem right there. You're looking for a government regulation to fix a problem created by another government regulation.

    --
    grep -ri 'should work' /usr/src/linux | wc -l
  62. Reasons why this article made me mad by vrassoc · · Score: 2, Funny
    1. The link leads to a splash advert and not to the story
    2. The link on the splash advert page that leads to the story has a popup advert
    3. After all that the story was only of importance to US citizens
    4. Couldn't [back] to /. after not reading past the first paragraph of the story
    1. Re:Reasons why this article made me mad by Bork · · Score: 0

      There is more to it then what you are seeing. I have Ad blocking software installed. The only way to get to the story is going through the Ad. Until I allowed the ad to come up, I could not get the next link to the story.

    2. Re:Reasons why this article made me mad by sapped · · Score: 1

      Use "The Proxomitron" (a proxy server for Windows machines, yes - I know). I wasn't redirected to any ads. I didn't see any ads. I just glided straight into the article and read the relevant news unencumbered by the intrusive marketing ploys of, oh say maybe a competing cable company opening up in my area.

  63. NOT A MONOPOLY by JeanBaptiste · · Score: 2

    from the article Now, eight cable companies will decide what the public will be offered

    Thats 7 too many companies for a monopoly! People say monopoly way too much.

    1. Re:NOT A MONOPOLY by medcalf · · Score: 2
      Thats 7 too many companies for a monopoly! People say monopoly way too much.

      Perhaps they do say monopoly way too much, but the word is still appropriate here. In the US, it is generally the case (in fact, always the case, as far as I am aware) that each local market is a monopoly. There are 8 companies in the US for cable, but only one in any given service area.

      --
      -- Two men say they're Jesus. One of them must be wrong. - Dire Straits
    2. Re:NOT A MONOPOLY by Seanasy · · Score: 2

      Simple, really. How many cable companies offer service in your area? If the answer is "1" as it is for most people in the U.S., then you have a monopoly.

  64. Explain this for me by why-is-it · · Score: 2

    You get to vote for your government every 4 years. Once they're in, 4 years is long term. Corporations, on the other hand, have to keep you happy every day, forever. Corporations, especially these days when brands are so important, are massively concerned with what people think of them, and if they're unpopular, they'll change.

    Oh really? If what you say is true, then please explain to me how microsoft's behaviour is consistent with your argument. If you have time, I would also like to hear how the MPAA and RIAA are concerned with what people think of them, and I am anxiously awaiting them to change for the better...

    --
    *** Where are we going? And what's with this handbasket?
  65. I'm more worried about increasing coverage.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or a lack of increase in coverage, anyway.

    I couldn't care less about broadband monopolies, as long as someone starts offering service in my area. At this point, I think I'd turn to AOL if they could get me off of dialup.

  66. Re:Isn't long distance telephony bascially owned t by JordanH · · Score: 2, Informative
    • Yep, and back in the day it was all controlled by ONE company, unntil that one company ASKED to no longer be the monopoly utility for LD service.

      It was the government that made ATT a regulated monopoly and it was business that introduced competition.

    Boy, isn't this some spin!

    ATT agreed to divest of their LOCAL phone monopoly as part of a settlement to an anti-trust action brought against them by the DOJ. Seems a little upstart named MCI complained that ATT did anti-competitive things to prevent their entry in the long distance business.

    They never ASKED to no longer be a LD monopoly. That was forced upon them by the anti-trust suit. In their defense, their settlement offer was unexpected and they could have dragged it out for years and years. But, it seems they thought that they could compete well in certain technology areas that had been denied them before.

    In return for this settlement, ATT got the right to compete in other technology areas, like computers, that they had been denied due to Telecommunications and Anti-Trust law up to that time.

    Their computers and software flopped completely. How you could fail at making money selling UNIX during it's growth haydays of mid-80s to early 90s is beyond me. Their computers were actually interesting, but somehow they couldn't market them.

    Their telecom/networking products, now mostly Lucent Corp., did have some success awhile back, but now Lucent is doing pretty poorly.

  67. Lans within lans. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I see two paths before us. One has broadband in every home at acceptable rates, which can be given due to monopoly status.

    The other has broadband dead in the water, because the monopoly in charge doesn't wish to do anything with it.

    Only the WAP of life can free what will save us now!

  68. sleazy illegal ways companies nowadays are using by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am very disturbed about the way the Internet is being commercialised (WWW I mean). I mean with these unlimited and unceasing pop-up adds. Spam which seems endless and now this. I clicked the link to read the story. To much of my surprise, the page loaded was not the story, but a whole full page of advertisment with another (small) link telling me to 'click here' if I wanted to read the story.

    I am getting really fed up with these irritating and very frustrating ways of companies (or individuals) dumping all their unwanted advertisments on the unsuspected online person.

    I don't know about the rest of the civilised world but, here in Belgium, it's illegal for companies to let you pay for unwanted advertising. But, I am doing this daily (I need to pay for the traffic I generate. Since these (automatic) advertisments generate traffic, I need to pay for them. Granted, maybe it's not alot of traffic they generate, but frankly that is irrelevant).

    Hoping mankind will get it's punishment it so sorely need, I greet thee farewell.

  69. Be a Media Oligopolist in Your Spare Time! by milo_Gwalthny · · Score: 2

    Or just act like one.

    Nationwide fiber-optic networks going for pennies on the dollar! Worldcom's price/book ratio is only 0.08 right now. That means you can buy the company Bernie Ebbers so lovingly assembled for only eight cents per dollar of net assets.

    So, if anybody has $4.4 billion to spare, email me and we can be oligopolists too!

    --
    Milo
    1. Re:Be a Media Oligopolist in Your Spare Time! by cdn-programmer · · Score: 1

      There is a TON of dark fibre available. If you can't get access to the last mile then your backbone may not be worth very much.

  70. semantics by OpenMind(tm) · · Score: 1

    A few points:

    Firstly, I think this trend is a very bad one, but not a sustainable one. It think the medium term effects of this regulatory change will be obvious and will make even fairly jaded political entities scramble to change it back. Firstly, these regulatory changes stand to make most of the providers without last mile networks either go out of business or cut back considerably, something that will be very visible in the current economy. Secondly, a lot of the people who are using broadband now, second-tier adopters, will be pretty damned disillusioned if the providers start screening content. Even if they don't give up on broadband, they'll probably stop evangelizing their mainstream, less geeky friends. I think that sort of thing would slow adoption to a crawl, which the opposite of what the FCC thinks its doing.

    Mainly, I think its important to remember that this kind of policy change can be reversed just about instantly. I think the providers know this too, and will not bet the farm that abusing the new state of affairs will not cause such a reversal from future FCC appointees.. In many ways, we'd be much worse off if all of these changes had come through Congress.

    Secondly, and more contrarily, I think its rather strange to classify a market media monopoly as a First Amendment violation. The First Amendment has nothing to do with publication. It guarantees that the government will not restrict your voice. It does not guarantee that the government will regulate the market to make people publish that voice. Media monopolies are wrong for many reasons, but the First Amendment as written is not one of them

  71. Re:Isn't long distance telephony bascially owned t by rekoil · · Score: 1

    Point #1 sucks, but is more or less a non-issue, because it happens to be the status quo in most areas.

    Point #2 is the scariest from my perspective - if this is implemented, Covad, and probably most of the independent ISPs that use them, are out of business. Unless the LECs are willing to resell (don't bet on it), my company, a medium-size carrier-class ISP, will see one or more of its largest billing customers get regulated out of business. Lots of people will lose their jobs if this becomes reality.

    Point #3 is scary, too, but unless the FCC takes back the 2.5 GHz band, unlikely, unless that band becomes too crowded to be usable for IP traffic.

    The largest logical failure in the FCC's line of thinking is the assumption that all three platforms will be available in all areas. Cable has shown the most promise for wide-scale deployment, but is hampered by the lack of competition that begets "because we can" policies (no servers or VPNs allowed, port blocking, etc.). Why? because unless DSL is available where you live, the cable companies truly have a monopoly. If the same thing happens to DSL, something tells me that the idea of running a server on a residential broadband line will become a faint memory.

    My hope the the future is wireless - there's no way that any one wireless cellphone provider will have a monopoly of any given area, and hopefully the same will be true with data. I just hope those providers will allow servers. :)

  72. Platform Competition by medcalf · · Score: 2

    The idea with platform competition - that is to say, that cable broadband competes with DSL - is that it's only partially true. There are high costs to get equipment, so that once you have cable, for example, you are unlikely to switch to DSL (with the attendent $200 installation if you can't find a deal). Also, since all of the broadband services look at their competition only within their platform when it comes to services and prices, the services tend to be poor and the prices high, since most broadband providers have no competition within their platform and service area.

    On the other hand, I suspect that this will drive the community network connections forward, which is a good thing. Many developers in my region (DFW) are now building their developments with the homeowners' association controlling a preinstalled network with usually at least a T3 out (for about 100 houses), and sometimes more. All the houses are pre-wired, and you pay for the service monthly, at generally very low rates.

    --
    -- Two men say they're Jesus. One of them must be wrong. - Dire Straits
  73. An essential freedom of the press issue by wytcld · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Under current conditions, anyone who can get a good SDSL connection (for instance, Covad/Speakeasy, available in all the major population centers) can, for a bit over $100 a month, run a medium traffic Web server, ftp, a listserv, dns.... You can't do that over cable, and you can't do that over telco ADSL.

    Now, you can do that by renting space at a server farm somewhere, but then you'll also need broadband to administer that at all efficiently. On the low end you can match that $100 a month, but in the middle range - say you want to have lots of content available, multiple URLs, custom configurations of Apache and whatever, you're talking about something over $200 a month for a dedicated server, plus your own broadband - tripling the price. So you significantly raise the bar for citizen participation in Internet publication. Where's the public interest in this? It's like giving the dominant newspaper control of the price of paper and ink.

    As a small note: cable isn't even in the picture if you don't have cable - and some of us out here have no interest in $35 a month for basic cable - the effective cost of cable broadband is that much higher if you don't want that crap.
    ___

    --
    "with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
    1. Re:An essential freedom of the press issue by mkremer · · Score: 1

      In my area Twin Cities/Minnesota for RoadRunner
      cable internet service you do not need to get
      cable from TimeWarner as part of the package.
      They just place a trap on the cable to prevent
      you from getting the channels.

  74. SPAM... by wowbagger · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The large ISPs also promote spam. Consider Qwest, Verio, and UUNET just to name a few. These companies are so large they know they cannot be blacklisted, so they just keep on selling the pink contracts and to hell with the rest of us.

    Unforunately, at this point it look like only a national law will even begin to bring those companies to heel (and a law will only affect companies with a significant business presense in the country that has the law...). I hate saying that - I dislike the "There outta be a law...." types, and any anti-spam law will have severe negative consiquences, but this is the direction we are being driven in.

  75. DSL via Quest anyone? by Sauron23 · · Score: 1

    As a local example; If FCC deregulates DSL services I would be forced to give up my local ISP and use Qwest the ILAC. Not good. I run my own server from a second IP via my local ISP. Quest would shut me off from running my own server immediately, raise my ISP rate and I believe they are blocking common ports such as 80 for listening services. So much for the home based web server.

    I'd be forced to co-host or use a virtual domain giving me limited physical access to my server, or making certain custom configurations difficult or completely unavailable if I go with the hosting solution. As DSL is an unregulated service here in Oregon I can't even cry to PUC. No solution would then exist for a private individual to run a small server from home in my area without incurring an unnecessary debt.

    I believe Qwest also has a download limit, something like 2 or 3 gigs a month after which you start paying something per MB depending on your service plan. My current ISP does not. Unlimited bandwidth. While I'm a fairly heavy user my total download since 5/02 appears to be around 10GB, while upload is at less then 200MB. Not that high but higher then what Qwest would allow without incurring further monthly overrun costs. I can see no financial reason for Qwest to uncap their download limit unless it was forced on them, which would be rather contrary to deregulation. Local cable? hah, AT&T's Orwellian user policy, upload bandwidth is terrible, no local servers, etc. I've been informed that they scan common service ports and will terminate service for violations. In parts of the area I'm located in service is simply terrible while others get good service. Crap shoot and your forced into a year long contract.

    To sum up. Deregulation of DSL IS going to suck if it happens. Another step back for broadband as there are no worthy alternatives. That second unregulated IP I discussed was and is my linux and networking education. I've run several flavors of GNU/Linux, configured firewalls, IDS, PHP, Apache, and on and on. Because it was an option. I'd like others to have that option in the future. My local school districts are pushing linux onto desktops which probably means a whole hoard of kids are going to be enlightened to a network OS, they should have the same opportunity I did to try this networking thing, maybe find some value in using the net for something other then passive browsing and IM.

    The article mentions that there are was no public forum for debate over cables deregulation. Will there be for DSL? I'd be interested to know what the small ISP's providing DSL service have to say about this. Is a local ISP such as dsl-only going to survive? Just look at the name! Not a chance. More money going out of the local economy and into the hands of a corporation I hate and dispise for repeatedly giving me sloppy customer service and terrible technical support. And think, I'm just one example... sigh.

  76. Two Decades of Internet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From the article:
    "The past two decades on the Internet have been a
    uniquely consumer-friendly environment," says Mark Cooper,
    research director at the Consumer Federation of America.
    Two decades of consumer-friendliness? At least half of that has been
    more like uncertainty, instability, greed, and sheer hell.

  77. How Baby Bells FIT the Definition by JohnDenver · · Score: 4, Informative

    First, Let's refer to...

    Marriam-Webster
    1. exclusive ownership through legal privilege, command of supply, or concerted action
    2. exclusive possession or control
    3. a commodity controlled by one party

    Notice the word exclusive as in exclusive ownership, exclusive control, exclusive possession

    Litmus Test

    Q. Do the Baby Bell's have exclusive control over the publicly owned telephone telecommunications infrastructure?

    A. No, They currently have Primary Control now as they are required to share thier control with other providers.

    Q. If the current FCC proposal allowing Baby Bells to deny access to the network access, will the Baby Bells return to thier Monopoly status?

    A. Yes, The current FCC proposal will give EXCLUSIVE rights to the public infrastructure, making the Baby Bells Regional Monopolies. IE, No more Covad or Flashcom.

    --
    "Communism is like having one [local] phone company " - Lenny Bruce
    1. Re:How Baby Bells FIT the Definition by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      First, Let's refer to...

      Marriam-Webster


      I think you need to consult a brand name dictionary-- perhaps Merriam-Webster, and realize that cheap imitation dictionaries, are, like genuine "Sorny" televisions, best left unsold.

    2. Re:How Baby Bells FIT the Definition by JohnDenver · · Score: 2

      I think you need to consult a brand name dictionary-- perhaps Merriam-Webster, and realize that cheap imitation dictionaries, are, like genuine "Sorny" televisions, best left unsold.


      Funny you say that, I usually use dictionary.com, but having dealt with people not considering dictionary.com a good source of definitions I made sure I used Marriam-Webster.

      It's pretty ironic that in going out of my way to reduce dumb comments focusing on which dictionary I used, I still get dumb comments.

      Maybe you should look up quibble

      See the second definition...

      --
      "Communism is like having one [local] phone company " - Lenny Bruce
    3. Re:How Baby Bells FIT the Definition by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      Arguing from the dictionary is a clumsy endeavor. Misspelling the name of your primary source is even clumsier.

      Monopoly's definition is best left to lawyers and economists-- not to lexicographers.

    4. Re:How Baby Bells FIT the Definition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought that "No more Covad" happened a while ago!

    5. Re:How Baby Bells FIT the Definition by JohnDenver · · Score: 2

      Arguing from the dictionary is a clumsy endeavor.

      The guy was bitching about people misusing the generic definition of monopoly, when they had it right. You don't think that's just BEGGING someone to whip out a dictionary to clarify things?

      Misspelling the name of your primary source is even clumsier.

      People understand that even really bright people misspell phonetically ambiguous words, and are quick to forgive them.

      People don't understand pedantic quibbling, and even pedantic quibblers don't forgive each other.

      Monopoly's definition is best left to lawyers and economists-- not to lexicographers.

      Of course, Despite usually being in the middle of academia, I'm sure lexicographers NEVER consult reputable lawyers/economists. I'm sure they do ALL thier own research to save time.

      --
      "Communism is like having one [local] phone company " - Lenny Bruce
    6. Re:How Baby Bells FIT the Definition by JohnDenver · · Score: 2

      I thought they just filed for bankruptcy...

      It seems like they're still taking orders...

      To be honest, I'm not sure how corporate bankruptcy works, but I would think that investors would try to milk Covad before liquidating it's assets (colocated DSL equipment).

      --
      "Communism is like having one [local] phone company " - Lenny Bruce
    7. Re:How Baby Bells FIT the Definition by phillymjs · · Score: 2

      Contrary to popular belief, the primary reason to declare bankruptcy is not to enable you to screw your creditors, loot the company treasury, and head off to someplace warm that has no extradition treaty with the U.S. It's to keep creditors off your back until you get your ducks in a row.

      This is what Covad did, re-emerging from bankruptcy protection in mid-December.

      I got DSL from SpeakEasy/Covad in January 2002, to rid myself of Comcast's crappy cable modem service. If they end up getting the plug pulled on them by the bastards at Verizon, I'll be pretty pissed off, because I want to be able to run servers in my house without worrying about jackbooted AUP Police kicking down my door.

      ~Philly

    8. Re:How Baby Bells FIT the Definition by unitron · · Score: 2

      Is Marriam-Webster where that other guy found the word "momopoly"?

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

    9. Re:How Baby Bells FIT the Definition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try defintions that actually apply:
      http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/m138.htm

      http://www.saint-island.com.tw/fa-law/fl-005.html

  78. Glad you warned me... by No+Such+Agency · · Score: 2

    Like I want THAT popping up, even momentarily, when I'm at work! I want to *keep* my job after all... Do Salon ads now need a NSFW warning?

    --
    Freedom: "I won't!"
  79. Re:Isn't long distance telephony bascially owned t by caca_phony · · Score: 2

    Apropos AT+T in the computer world, they innovated too much and too soon. Things from the plan9 OS to the rc shell to the sam text editor to the Acme whatsamabobit were arguably major improvements upon the mainstream, and were unarguably innovative. Not Microsoft style innovative but Edison style innovative. Main stream OS', to the extent they have changed since plan9, have approached plan9's design (distributed computing, network transparency, replacing monolithic mainframes with peer special purpose machines - one to do networking between LAN and WAN, one to serve up home directories and authenticate logins, one to store runable binaries, one or more to do long cpu and ram intensive tasks etc. that act to the user like one coherent computer). The ideas are maybe just too wierd, not what people are used to in computing, too new for them to make money on them, but we may just talk about them someday re networking and program design the way people now talk about Xerox PARC regarding UI (try out the unix port of sam, rc or wily, the unix port of acme, to see what I am talking about- you will have to RTFM, they all take a while to figure out, but they are all definitely innovative. If they were just released yesterday, they would still be innovative).

    --
    ...and this lie crawls out of its mouth: 'I, the state, am the people.'
  80. Re:too young by blamanj · · Score: 2

    I think you will find that corporations are far more answerable to customers and even small shareholders than governments are to voters.

    You're clearly too young to remember AT&T before deregulation. You couldn't plug anything into a phone socket that they didn't own. The popular variant of their marketing slogans was "AT&T: we don't care, we don't have to."

  81. FCC: Federal Corporation Coddler by SkewlD00d · · Score: 2

    The FCC is a corrupt PoS. Not only do they "control" who gets to broadcast what/how/when and where, they want to limit the wire bandwidth to only companies that pay them the most money and sit on the FCC's "advisory" boards. What a self-serving crock of crap!

    Shit, why the hell don't municipalities start non-profit NGOs to install/maintain another set of wires (or fiber)? Maybe with another type of utility, we can get the Bells off our collective backs. Btw, who needs local telephone service anyhow? It seems that alot of cell phones are cheaper than long-distance in most cases, and with a high-speed conxn, VoIP would be essentially free.

    I vote that we scrap the FCC and start over, because they are NOT serving the people, only themselves and the big oglopolies.

    P.S.: "Deregulation" means fewer rights for consumers, and more market power for "Baby" Bells (SBC == 4 Baby Bells).

    --
    The biggest trick the devil pulled was letting lawyers become politicians so they can write the laws.
    1. Re:FCC: Federal Corporation Coddler by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shit, why the hell don't municipalities start non-profit NGOs to install/maintain another set of wires (or fiber)?

      As long as payment into them is voluntary, and not forced as a tax is.

      P.S.: "Deregulation" means fewer rights for consumers

      In many, if not most cases, deregulation means MORE rights for consumers, as it means that companies are better able to serve the customers. Many, but not all of course, regulations do little other than prevent competition (and deny the consumer the choice)

    2. Re:FCC: Federal Corporation Coddler by TheSync · · Score: 2

      My suggestion, a Constitutional Amendment:

      Congress shall make no law regarding telecommunications.

  82. Are we being a little too paranoid by Turin · · Score: 1

    Don't get me wrong. I am not in favor of monopolies, and I'd rather that they would have ruled that the current telcom rules applied to cable.

    ---- however ----

    5 or 10 years ago the average person on the street still didn't -get- the internet. They didn't understand the fundamental difference between a broadcast media and an interactive media.

    If this ruling was proposed then it would have made sense to be up in arms because customers wouldn't know what they were missing when providers served them AOL or a lookalike.

    Today however, many americans understand. The've all been amazed first hand at the variety and 'fresh-ness' of the internet. Do you think they would let that go away? Don't you think people will vote with their feet against the first such monopolist that started restricting content.

    Isn't that the advantage of a free market. The government doesn't have to get it and companies that don't get it will suffer.

    I just don't think that this will destroy the spirit of the internet. And with money to be made perhaps the providers will finally run fiber that last mile into everyones living room.

    Just a thought.

    1. Re:Are we being a little too paranoid by talks_to_birds · · Score: 2
      What "free market"?

      Everytime I hear someone try to invoke that smokescreen, I want to puke.

      I live in a medium-to-large market (metropolitan Tacoma-Seattle-Everett, Washington) and I have the choice of:

      • one and only one power company
      • one and only one phone company for Internet access if I want dialup (is which what I have..)
      • one and only one cable company for Internet access if I wanted to go cable...
      • no opportunity for DSL at all because the one and only one possible provider doesn't think there's enough demand where I live
      • if I had natural gas, I'd get it from one and only one gas company
      • if I didn't have my own well, I'd get water from one and only one water company.
      • if I wasn't on a septic system...

      You get the idea.

      There is, for the vast majority of computer users, one and only one operating system company.

      What fucking "free market"?

      There is no true market for a whole lot of stuff, these days.

      t_t_b

      --
      I'm on PJ's "enemies" list! Are you?
    2. Re:Are we being a little too paranoid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you're right
      but that is because the Gov't stepped in and gave it to them!
      you do realize that cable tv, electricity, and water (usually) are usually monopolies that are granted by localities.
      you can't blame "evil capitalism" for that.
      The law has declared a common provider, simply cause the barrier to entry is soooo high, ostensibly the government gets to regulate these monopolies however, since the government gave them the monopoly on that condition.

      Government regulation in cases like these with huge barrier to entry(as opposed to trust-busting "non sanctioned" monopolies) is obviously better than just assiging a company monopoly position and letting them do whatever they want. But competition from competing technoolgies is far better than regulation, which is always inefficient and prone to lobbying from various interest groups.

  83. Re:too young by sql*kitten · · Score: 2

    You're clearly too young to remember AT&T before deregulation. You couldn't plug anything into a phone socket that they didn't own. The popular variant of their marketing slogans was "AT&T: we don't care, we don't have to."

    AT&T before deregulation was a government-sanctioned monopoly. You're just proving my point that governments don't need to care what people think about them. After deregulation, AT&T improved drastically, because the market forced them to.

    By definition, a private corporation in competition with other private corporations couldn't have survived behaving that way. Witness the intense competition between and well-staffed call centers of the various mobile telcos.

  84. What the FCC leadership is doing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...is just setting themselves up for nice cushy jobs in the private sector when they leave the government service. How much does anyone want to bet that Michael Powell winds up a senior VP or on the board of one of the bigger internet companies or a telco when he leaves government.

    1. Re:What the FCC leadership is doing... by /dev/trash · · Score: 1
      ...is just setting themselves up for nice cushy jobs in the private sector when they leave the government service. How much does anyone want to bet that Michael Powell winds up a senior VP or on the board of one of the bigger internet companies or a telco when he leaves government.

      So what would you suggest government people do? Stay til they die? Become welfare bums?

    2. Re:What the FCC leadership is doing... by metachimp · · Score: 1
      Well, you could have a rule that says that you cannot hold a position in the industry that you were once responsible for regulating for a period of time, say 5 years. This would hamper the temptation to skew your regulatory policies in anticipation of the personal gain that you would stand to make. This would have prevented Lynne Cheney from taking her position on the board of directors of Enron shortly after letting them write the regulations for their business.


      Since it's obvious that the heads of these regulatory agencies are mainly out to line their pockets, I don't think it would be too out of line to say "Hey, go find a position in an industry *other* than the one you just finished regulating."

      --
      The system has failed you, don't fail yourself. --Billy Bragg
    3. Re:What the FCC leadership is doing... by /dev/trash · · Score: 1

      while I think a little more regulation shold be done, requiring someone who is an expert say in nails to go do work in farming.

  85. Yes, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Every cable company I know of operates at the pleasure of local municipalities who regulate their behavior through franchises in exchange for a local monopoly. There is no reason that "unrestricted access to all content" couldn't be mandated as part of these franchises. What needs to happen is for an organization of municpal governments to hire competent counsel to hammer out a pro forma franchise that covers these issues. Then, whenever a local franchise comes up for renewal, the new wording can be included.

    Letting individual municipalities sweat these issues out separately would be a mistake, since few have the legal/technical expertise to grapple with them effectively. A national organization would be much better equipped to come up with the legal framework which the individual local governments could adapt to their tastes.

  86. newbie? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    lots of newbies posting today...

  87. Political control... by gillbates · · Score: 5, Interesting
    From the article:

    But the far more urgent concern is that media conglomerates will use their control over broadband pipes to restrict access to content, information, or technologies that compete with their own content or otherwise threaten their interests.

    In a democracy, those who control the flow of information control the country. Grassroots movements can't get started without free communication, and as the Internet is becoming an increasingly used political sounding board, this deregulation will give the media companies more power than we realize. Unlike the government, which is required by the Constitution to allow free speech, the media companies have no such requirement - they can deny access to anyone without any justification whatsoever. Those with views unpopular (say Jews, Christians, or Muslims...) or critical of the ISP, may find themselves silenced without any legal recourse.
    --
    The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
    1. Re:Political control... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wonder how well a grassroots movements demanding democratic (ellected people) controll over the internet instead off the big media moguls would do in terms off media coverege . well i gues they could always turn to the internet to get their messege out ...

  88. Stifle Competition by dr_dank · · Score: 1

    The rules were written to prevent the owners of the telephone wires from using their power over the lines to control content or stifle competition.

    These rules don't seem to be very effective in the case of DSL. Verizon has had a nasty habit of cancelling CLEC orders for DSL or deny them on the grounds of being too far from the CO.... and then have the nerve to offer DSL service to the same people that couldn't get it though DirectTV, Earthlink, et al.

    --
    Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
  89. Large corporations hate government regulations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Large corporations love governnment regulations, because they do far more damage to small businesses than they do to the large corps.

    Say what? Not in the US. Exxon "loves" the regulations it paid so much for violating? Arthur Anderson "loves" the accounting standards it violated? GM and Ford "love" the CAFE standards? Companies "love" minimum wage regulations that force them to fire workers and do the job a lot worse?

    However, you do make a good point that regulations tend to kill the smaller companies first: survival of the fittest

    1. Re:Large corporations hate government regulations by geronimo87 · · Score: 1

      Exactly my point. Regulations may cost large corporations in the short term, but in the long term, it kills their competition.

  90. Simple: anti-trust by browser_war_pow · · Score: 2

    If AOLTW were to block its competitors from sending content to its users that would be a gross violation of anti-trust laws. I for one am becoming less libertarian and more conservative the more I contemplate posts like yours (which is a good thing, most conservatives do support anti-trust law).

    1. Re:Simple: anti-trust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "most conservatives do support anti-trust law"
      Really? is that why GW Bush basically pardoned microsoft?

    2. Re:Simple: anti-trust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "most conservatives do support anti-trust law"
      Really? is that why GW Bush basically pardoned microsoft?


      Don't be a fool. He's a politician, and they gave him money. Politician trumps ideology every time.

    3. Re:Simple: anti-trust by sholton · · Score: 1
      If AOLTW were to block its competitors from sending content to its users that would be a gross violation of anti-trust laws.

      Anti-trust? Nice try.

      If I'm AOL/TW, why the hell should I have to allow you (as the competition) to use my networks to try to take away my customers. Isn't that like you being able to demand the right to erect a billboard on my property?

      That is the crux of these policy decisions; the FCC is relaxing the common carrier restrictions on broadband communication.

      In the early days of the telephone system (we're talking back when each call was connected by the operator by hand) there was a lawsuit filed by the owner of a small town funeral home who feared that the phone company was directing business to a competitor. The competitor's wife was the town telephone operator. Since that time, the concept of common carriage has been used.

      The common carrier laws are regulation (so they must be bad, right?) that require the operator of a telephony services network to carry all communications equally without respect for content.

      --
      A new kind of meat designed to appeal to vegetarians.
  91. Microsoft's behavior by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Oh really? If what you say is true, then please explain to me how microsoft's behaviour is consistent with your argument [Corporations, on the other hand, have to keep you happy every day.]

    Microsoft keeps the vast majority of users happy every day. To the Slashdot community, the users may be "Fat happy and dumb", dupes, or fools: but they are there and they are happy even if they don't know better.

  92. Seeing the brighter side by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This could start a real flaming, but...

    By defining broadband as an information service, not a telecom service would allow co-ops/neighborhoods/communtities/etc. to install their own copper or fiber networks and then tie this to the backbone.

    By using VoIP they can also provide telephone services.

    And then they can tell the telcos to go jump.

    And if there was sufficient programming available on the internet, the cable co.s can jump too...

  93. Mobile phone competition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Witness the intense competition between and well-staffed call centers of the various mobile telcos.

    Are you referring to cellular phone companies? If there was such competition to make them better, why are they so overpriced (costing 4 times what they do in Germany, for example)?

    ...uhhhh.... wait. I forgot the ridulous high fees that the government makes the cell phone companies pay. Like with gasoline, where we pay something way much higher than the real value due to taxes (Note: I'm not saying there should be no taxes on gasoline. Just that the taxes should be the same as on everything else)

  94. Monopolies control 350% of the market. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0



    The word "monopolies" still is quite wrong for the title of the item. Monopolies is a plural, more than one, so there have to be at least two. If each has at least 70% of market share, you up with these "monopolies" having at least 140% market share. IF there are 5 of these monopolies, they control 350% of the market!

  95. http://www.yitiens.org by Ensign+Nemo · · Score: 1

    is a site that follows proposed bills (and rulings) and articles affecting technology.
    If you are interested in things like this, take a look.

    It's still under development but it's very useful.

  96. That is free speech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    . Unlike the government, which is required by the Constitution to allow free speech, the media companies have no such requirement

    No, the media companies, under the Constitution, are allowed to say whatever they want. WITHOUT guys like you dictating that their speech must include the speech of different political groups that you like.

  97. Yes, the people hold the power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Under globalization, people are better able to make decisions and to cooperate with each other without silly things like international borders and greedy governments who want to control getting in the way.

    1. Re:Yes, the people hold the power by jxs2151 · · Score: 1

      In a globalized system, it may not matter if the governments (as we know them) wish to control or otherwise get in the way.

  98. And it could cost less by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are a bunch of government fees and regulations that make phone calls cost a lot more than they could right now.

  99. Deregulate to get more choices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why don't you have more cable companies in your area? Regulations keep them out. At least that is the way it is in my area.

    The local township has a "franchise" thing going to allow only one cable company. This is not a good idea. Is it even Constitutional? What if the township had a "franchise" to allow only the Wall Street Journal to be sold... no other newspapers allowed?

  100. When will you figure out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When will you libertarian slashdotteri figure out that the biggest threat to our liberty is not government, but corporations?

  101. Are you really sure ... no new codes needed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From a Wired article:
    The role of wireless phones in traffic accidents has become a hot debate, as the number of cell phone users has shot up from a few hundred thousand in 1985 to more than 121 million today

    Assuming a MAX use total of 10 million numbers per area code, wouldn't this increase have required 12 new area codes? And this is just for cell phones, and max use of all numbers in an area code does not ever occur by a long shot.

  102. Re:too young by blamanj · · Score: 3, Informative

    AT&T before deregulation was a government-sanctioned monopoly.

    AT&T had acheived monopoly status by the 1930's. It chose to submit to a set of business restrictions (primarily other markets, e.g. computers) in order to be allowed to remain a monopoly in 1956. It was hardly a passive entity, before or after.

    By definition, a private corporation in competition with other private corporations couldn't have survived behaving that way.
    By definition, a monopoly isn't in competition, leaving very few mechanisms for "forcing them" to do anything.

  103. Re:Isn't long distance telephony bascially owned t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Well that's your problem right there. You're looking for a government regulation to fix a problem created by another government regulation."

    That was asked for by a corporation.

  104. competition will be there by Jon+Kay · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Consolidation is OK so long as individual users mostly have choices on an individual basis. Despite media consolidations, there is more real
    media choice today than ever.

    Not long ago, I saw a talk on broadband connectivity here in Texas, especially with reference to rural communities; there are alot
    of mighty small and isolated communities here in this state. Surprisingly many had access to broadband. Communities of any size at all had access to actual choices - two of cable, DSL, or wireless. Communities which only had one of those did so only because of widespread satisfaction with the 'monopoly' provider. It seems reasonable to believe that competition will spring up if satisfaction thins with that provider.

    And, of course, everybody has access to satellite, but it doesn't seem to be needed in surprisingly many places.

    Here in Austin, we have monopoly cable companies, and we have DSL mostly provided by a single cable company. Two near-monopolies in terms of individual technologies, but they do compete. Their prices are competitive; they don't dare let their service departments go too far south; they are always running TV ads blasting each other.

    And if it doesn't work out, we can always reregulate. No matter what people say about money and politics, democracy will not be suspended
    as a result of this decision.

    1. Re:competition will be there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "more real media choice" ...

      oh... you mean there are a lott off different programs all saying the same thing and you can watch anyone you whant .

  105. arrrghhh by Satanboy · · Score: 1

    I have been following this stuff a lot lately.
    The FCC director seems to be completely insane in my book.

    There was a reason the Bells were broken up, there is a reason IBM was held up in antitrust committees,and Microsoft is yet another example.

    If you give someone the power to take advantage of others they will do it. You don't place a steak in front of a dog and expect him not to eat it. The heads of corporations are just rich dogs and the steak is our money.

    Think about it, the people the FCC are trusting to be honest are the same people that lie to people before lay offs (Bellsouth, Time Warner), and do underhanded things like prioritize their telephone installers to stop competition in DSL providers, (Ameritech for example). We cannot trust large corporations.

    If you don't believe this, you are either on the board of directors of a major corporation, or you are blind.

    When will the government stop pandering to the whims of a group of "elite billionaires" and start listening to the constituency?

    I guess not until we fire them.

  106. Re:Isn't long distance telephony bascially owned t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > ATT agreed to divest of their LOCAL phone monopoly as part of a settlement to an anti-trust action brought against them by the DOJ. Seems a little upstart named MCI complained that ATT did anti-competitive things to prevent their entry in the long distance business.

    MCI was engaged in a process of "cream skimming". It would lease ATT circuits in bulk and resell telephone services between lucritive markets. Calls between non-lucritive markets were handed over to ATT. MCI had a fine plan, all the profit with none of the obigations of providing a network with full nationwide coverage.

    However, ATT mandate required they "spread the wealth" by providing things like Universial Access. ATT was required to provide everyone, everywhere, roughly equal phone service at roughly similar prices.

    Net-Net ATT was facing a world where the likes of "MCI" claimed they had a "right" to engage in profitable business. Fine. But that argument was forcing ATT into a world where all the wealth it was required to spread was being skimmed away.

    You just can't maintain a 10 mile rural phone circuit on $20/month, if you aren't making money to pay for it elsewhere else.

    So, the key issue for ATT was that MCI's theory had made the ATT business model untenable. ATT had to force the issue, or die, and precipitated the Anti-trust suit. They got exactly what they needed, and indeed asked for. Namely, an accounting seperation between Long vs. Local distance.

    The local wireing plants were broken into the Baby Bells, and a "Universal Access Charge" (among others) now appears on the Long Distance bills of MCI, ATT, and everyone else.

    The settlement was designed to put ATT on a path level with everyone else.

  107. That's FIDO net! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It sounds like a recreation of old Fido-net.

    Your example shows how it would be difficult for "giant corporations to take over the net": the technology is so ubiquitous now.

  108. Re:Isn't long distance telephony bascially owned t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Local gov'ts generally give cable companies monopoly rights, rights to tear up streets, etc.

    Could the local goverment then also say that they have to share their lines? Local goverments are far easier for citizens to have an effect on than the FCC, so it might actually be better to deal with things from that angle. Just some thoughts,

    -Greg

  109. Correcting (Elaborating) you Thinking... by JohnDenver · · Score: 2

    You're argument for allowing Cable companies a monopoly is contigent on the following series of events happening.

    1. Cable begins selling Voice-over-IP to all customers.
    2. A significant market is going to switch to an inferior voice service. (CLEC's had hard enough time selling the same service as Bell's let alone an inferior one)
    3. FCC will reconsider it's decision despite an earlier decision exempting VoIP services from paying into the Universal Service Fund, which funds telephone access in remote areas.
    4. The Telco's won't figure out a way to circumvent this despite they figured out how to circumvent the Telecommunications Act of 1996, which bargained deregulation in exchange for providing access the public infrastructure they are entrusted with.

    How can you even begin to assure that any of these events will take place, let alone all of them? How can you ensure a community will have all three services, Cable, DSL, and wireless? How can you ensure prices will be reasonable for the areas that lack competition (All Cable, no DSL, no Wireless)? What would keep any of these services from all agreeing to ban certain uses (Kazaa, FTP server, etc.)?

    To recap, your plan puts all it's eggs in the VoIP basket, and is naive for thinking the Baby Bells and Cable companies will play by the rules.

    At a minimum, we should ATLEAST keep making the Bells provide access to the infrastructure as they've been doing for the last 4-5 years. That's AT A MINIMUM, because you just can't trust them.

    While we're at it, here's a list of people you can't trust.

    * Politicans
    * Monopolies
    * Corporations
    * The Media
    * Musicians
    * Comedians
    * Religious Icons
    * Advocacy Groups
    * Anyone who just wants you to trust them
    * Anyone who identifies with a political party

    AND

    * Anyone over 30

    --
    "Communism is like having one [local] phone company " - Lenny Bruce
  110. Nope.. I'm not forgetting about it. by mindstrm · · Score: 2

    I just didn't touch on it.

    IPV6 will give us address space, yes..
    but will it be too late? Who will allocate that space? Will it simply be handed out by the current heirarchy of control, or will we once again be able to freely get routable space assigned to us without hassle, regardless of who our ISP is?

  111. "packet-based" competition by linuchristo · · Score: 1

    The Salon article uses the phrase "facilities-based competition", which we have now in DSL markets, where the owner of the facility (the ILEC) has to open the facility (and its copper pairs, etc) up to CLECs like Covad.
    I would be willing to forgo facilities-based competition, like the FCC is considering, only in exchange for "packet-based" competition, whereby the monopolizer of the facility must without prejudice allow all IP packets to travel through their facility. Specifically, under packet-based competition, ILECs and other providers of IP connectivity would not be able to use their monopoly/oligopoly on connectivity to gain an advantage in services or content that runs atop the IP layer.
    Bob Frankston advocates this, but I'm afraid that he's not cynical enough about government's tendency to kowtow to big corporations.
    Specifically, it is easier to fight to keep a right one already enjoys (to buy from facilities-based competitors like Covad) than to fight for a new right (to buy services from packet-based competitors).
    Thus, I will fight to keep facilities-based competition.

  112. Terrorists? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    perhaps they wouldn't have the money to enslave the Third World and get everyone pissed at us...therefore no reason for terrorists to terrorize.

    Huh? The ones enslaving the people in the third world are the governments of those countries. There is no reason to be pissed, no reason for terrorism. In case you hadn't noticed, the big reasons for the terrorism are

    1) we have a different religion than they do

    2) we stand in the way of their goal of extermination of a certain group of people with a religion they detest strongly.

  113. Gnet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.guerrilla.net/

    Check out what the people here have to say as its becoming more relevant every day.

    -Greg

  114. China and the free market by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    China, being a socialist country, is largely based on slave labor. It is not a free market where there are slaves involved.

  115. Just in case... by talks_to_birds · · Score: 2
    ...anyone at Salon is listening (and you folks at /. can eavesdrop, too..):

    J*sus H Chr*st is that first f*cking full-screen ad annoying.

    Would I ever patronize any company that ever used such an advertisement?

    Never.

    Will I ever go back to Salon, after that?

    Never.

    To hell with 'em...

    All you folks who are so in love with pop-ups and pop-unders and all that cr*p need to wise up.

    t_t_b

    --
    I'm on PJ's "enemies" list! Are you?
    1. Re:Just in case... by metachimp · · Score: 1

      If you pay Salon money, the ads go away.

      --
      The system has failed you, don't fail yourself. --Billy Bragg
    2. Re:Just in case... by ealar+dlanvuli · · Score: 1

      Funny I did't get one..

      oh, I get it your using the "de-facto standards compliant" piece of junk, that masqurades as a web browser.

      You use Internet Exploiter? Wow, I didn't think anyone could stand that thing anymore, Mozilla blew it out of the water almost a year ago..

      For those who aern't sure if I'm trolling, I honestly believe every thing I'm posting here. And I'm not a linux weenie to top it off. Mozilla is better than IE, has been for a long time, will continue to be more likley than not. And now that 1.0 is out I'm guessing some native-widgit clients are going to come out for about every configuration you could possibly want, and that will make it all the more superior to IE.

      --
      I live in a giant bucket.
  116. I don't believe it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... and I am not on the board of a major corporation. I'm just well informed about economics and current civics.

    1. Re:I don't believe it. by Satanboy · · Score: 1

      could you explain what part of civics matters to people who take a 50 million dollar bonus when a company is on the verge of going under?

      I am completely clueless how this is going to help the industry, Time Warner has already jacked my bill twice this month.

      I was considering switching, but the choices are horrible, and now I am going to have less!

  117. Facts on corporate taxes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Trash, if you look at it overall corporations don't pay taxes [darden.edu].

    Did you read the article you gave a link to. Must not have. It said that a few corporations did not pay taxes. The article also argued that corporate taxes should be eliminated. If there were none, why fight to eliminate them?

    They make a good case too: when corporations are taxed, they make us pay, or are forced to lay off workers.

    the federal budget is top-heavy with corporate welfare. Counting tax breaks and....

    Internal contradiction. They blew it in the quote you gave. Tax breaks are not welfare! They never are, they never can be. How is it "Welfare", a gift, for the government to steal less of what you own? Are you thankful when a robber takes your wallet but does not take your shoes.... do you then call your shoes a gift from the robber?

    -- billions more than the mortgage interest deduction. (Which itself benefits the people with the biggest mortgages

    Actually, it "benefits" anyone who pays a mortgage. As if it is a "benefit" for the government to exploit you less and keep more of what you earned. The vast majority of the people who "benefit" from mortgade deductions are non-wealthy invididuals (not the rich, not corporations)

    So, since corporate welfare goes only to big corporations [commoncause.org] that means it's entirely possible (qualitatively) that their tax bill is zero

    Only if you count things that are not corporate welfare (which you are trying to do). Also, corporate welfare, relatively small as it is, goes to corporations of all sizes. Not just big ones.

    1. Re:Facts on corporate taxes by Beliskner · · Score: 1
      Did you read the article you gave a link to. Must not have...

      ...Internal contradiction. They blew it in the quote you gave
      I based my rant on the third source (commoncause.org) with some minor but dubious support from the other two because multiple sources gives a more balanced outlook and allow good replies (like yours Mr. AC). I'd rather be contradicted after giving a bigger picture than providing a small CNN-style soundbite that shows a biased viewpoint.

      Taxing corporations isn't futile - that $40billion Micro$oft has isn't going into wages. Taxes actually encourage corporations to give the money in wages, as if the company keeps the money as profit by paying all employees $10,000 pa the corporation would have to pay so much tax that they might as well give it to the employees as salary, so they do.

      --
      A caveman dreams of being us, the incalculable power and riches. We dream of being Q, then what?
  118. Monopoly to recoup costs? by crucini · · Score: 2
    Without temporary monopolies to recoup R&D and Deployment, what incentive is there for a company to invest butt-loads of money into something like a broadband network?

    I don't understand this argument, but I see it a lot. Opening the network to competition should not mean that AT&T fails to make a profit on the infrastructure they've built. Look at it this way: AT&T builds a railroad to carry minerals from a mine they own. They have two different investments: the mine and the railroad. Now other mine operators want to use the railroad. Naturally, they expect to pay. But AT&T refuses to carry their cargo at all. Under the DSL rules, AT&T would be compelled to provide transport for the other mine operators - not at a loss, but at a reasonable profit. This should not harm their ability to recoup on any investment in the railroad. If it harms their ability to recoup on the mine, then the mine was badly planned.

    In any event, the last-mile wiring infrastructure remains a monopoly. The issue is whether that facility should be rented (not given away) to all parties on a non-discriminatory basis, or whether the owner of the infrastructure can leverage its monopoly in last-mile transport to create a monopoly in a totally different market, ISP services and upstream transport.

    To me the answer is clear; in fact I believe that any company granted monopoly privileges to provide last-mile transit should be banned from providing upstream internet access - they should merely rent capacity to ISPs who would sell the complete package to customers. That would eliminate the current blatant conflict of interest. I don't see how it would prevent investors in such last-mile infrastructure from recouping investment.
  119. Pro-censorship? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If this had happened a few years ago we'd all expect a padded room-censored Internet.
    FCC - Pandora's box is already open, this is a pitiful attempt to close it. Next time I'll vote Democrat


    Don't vote Democrat. They want to tax the Internet to hell in the U.S. The liberal democrats gave us our first major attempt to censor the Internet (CDA). They even have as a major leader a deluded boob who claimed that he actually invented the Internet. You could always vote for Nader, who wants total government control and censorship of the Internet.

    1. Re:Pro-censorship? by Beliskner · · Score: 1
      The liberal democrats gave us our first major attempt to censor the Internet (CDA). They even have as a major leader a deluded boob who claimed that he actually invented the Internet
      Yeah, and I invented breathing the second I was born out of my Mother's womb. Think about it thousands of violations of my prior art every day.
      You could always vote for Nader, who wants total government control and censorship of the Internet
      *sigh* well if he's elected then someone on /. should volunteer to switch the Whitehouse routers to Win '95 so that we can tell him, "Nader, dude, the Internet doesn't work, so it doesn't need censorship."
      --
      A caveman dreams of being us, the incalculable power and riches. We dream of being Q, then what?
  120. historical cause for concern by Tired_Blood · · Score: 1

    Control of information is a big cause for concern. This pbs.org page goes into one famous example of a media (newspaper) big-shot, William Herst. The best paragraph is the following: Douglas Fairbanks, Jr., remembers his father asking Hearst why he preferred concentrating on newspapers, with their limited, regional appeal, rather than spending more energy on motion pictures and their worldwide audience. Fairbanks recalls Hearst's reply: "I thought of it, but I decided against it. Because you can crush a man with journalism, and you can't with motion pictures." All you need is one person in power with a vendetta, and people who were interested in lower costs will change priorities.

    --
    This is not my sig.
  121. It is no worry now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are more publications now than ever before, after all, and networks involved with TV news have more than doubled since the advent of cable.

  122. Snoops! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Too bad there is no Constitutional right to privacy. These things would be easier to fight then.

    1. Re:Snoops! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually there is some vaguely "adumbrated" individual right to privacy in the U.S.Constitution. Various Supreme Court benches have said that the 3rd and 4th Amendments (maybe others I don't know) implicitly assume (and create) the existence of privacy rights.
      There are a few flaws in the Constitution, one of which we could say is that the people who wrote it took the right to privacy so much for granted, they neglected to explicitly protect it.

  123. Correcting your thinking. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    After long and carefull thought into the situation here is the solution as I see it. Companies can only be trusted to do whats in their best interest, which is to make money. This includes every dirty trick in the book that maintains the revenue flow. To prevent companies from unethical behavior and to protect consumers we create laws and regulations to keep them in check. Unlike people companies are not natural and thus shouldn't be afforded every curtasy, they exist at our sufferance.

    Since we are able to more closely dictate the behavior of companies we hold them to a more narrow context then what we currently do. The cable and telephone companies own, maintain, and lease the lines. They are forbidden from originating any information signals across these lines, save for testing purposes.

    The cable and telephone companies then lease the use of the lines to the customer who gets to decide where the other end of the line is connected. They have no say in the contents transfered over their line.

    Any routing/switching company that wants to abide by the laws and regulations can provide the actual routing/switching/data services in an area. The consumers get to decide.

    Large multipurpose companies are a economic drain that corrupt the goverenment and screw the cosumers. In nature things are bound by natural limits, companies know no limits and gravitate towards a monopoly.

  124. Re:Isn't long distance telephony bascially owned t by JordanH · · Score: 1
    • MCI was engaged in a process of "cream skimming". It would lease ATT circuits in bulk and resell telephone services between lucritive markets. Calls between non-lucritive markets were handed over to ATT. MCI had a fine plan, all the profit with none of the obigations of providing a network with full nationwide coverage.

      However, ATT mandate required they "spread the wealth" by providing things like Universial Access. ATT was required to provide everyone, everywhere, roughly equal phone service at roughly similar prices.

      Net-Net ATT was facing a world where the likes of "MCI" claimed they had a "right" to engage in profitable business. Fine. But that argument was forcing ATT into a world where all the wealth it was required to spread was being skimmed away.

      You just can't maintain a 10 mile rural phone circuit on $20/month, if you aren't making money to pay for it elsewhere else.

    As I said, you're spinning it. To suggest that ATT "ASKED" for there to be competition in LD is bizaare. They certainly never would have gotten out of the monopoly business had it not been for the anti-trust suit.

    ATT could have and were expected to argue that what they were doing to MCI was fair for years, but they folded right away and went in for the breakup plan. Everyone assumed that ATT was going after the lucrative communications/telecom/computing business that they were denied before.

    • So, the key issue for ATT was that MCI's theory had made the ATT business model untenable. ATT had to force the issue, or die, and precipitated the Anti-trust suit. They got exactly what they needed, and indeed asked for. Namely, an accounting seperation between Long vs. Local distance.

    "precipitate the Anti-trust suit"?? MCI brought the anti-trust action. I don't know where you get your history from.

    What are you, some kind of Libertarian historical revisionist, trying to prove that big monopolies will always voluntarily break up and that it's only big government that we should be afraid of?

  125. You are using "ideal" economic theories by bigsexyjoe · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Your arguement is essentially
    1) Companies want money
    2) The consumer gives them money
    3) They must appease consumers for money

    1 is correct.
    2 They can get money from other companies. For example Disney could pay the ISP to allow more bandwidth for downloading their stuff.

    3 In the real world not even close. If their are only 8 companies (sometimes called an olgapoly) controling everything, they will probably tacitly agree to not out do each other since this would lead to "destructive competion."
    They will all benfit if they all agree to not lower their prices. (This can often be an unspoken thing. They say let's not lower our prices because our few competitors will do the same and we will gain more market.)

    It is different if there are more companies because if company X controls 0.01% of the market and it lowers its prices then it would increase its market share because its competitors would not respond to this because company X has an insignificant affect on the market.

    I have been talking about pricing but everything I said also applies to quality of service.

    Companies also don't need to improve products if they use fraud and high quality marketing but thats not as relevent to what we're talking about and this post is already to long.

  126. Electricity? by tacokill · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So are you suggesting that I just "vote with my wallet" on PG&E's brownouts? Obviously, I have no choice as there is not another electricity company serving the greater SF area.

    ...and THAT's the point of the article. Capitalism also implies that substitutes are available. What if they aren't - and can't be? Then what?

  127. differentiated products by chocolatetrumpet · · Score: 1

    Monopolies is just a company that makes a differentiated product. That is all.

    --
    Spoon not. Fork, or fork not. There is no spoon.
    1. Re:differentiated products by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      monopoly is control of a market

      would you say that GM has a monopoly on Suburbans and other manufacturers need to have access to the plant to eliminate the monopoly situation?

  128. Reverse history by MasterC · · Score: 1

    It's strange. While the power industry progresses, the telecom industry goes in the direction of the power industry's history. Apparently FCC has never heard of the old adage of "He who does not learn from history is doomed to repeat it."

    --
    :wq
  129. Only monopolies can do big projects by serutan · · Score: 2

    From the article: [Economists] argue that the current regulations, particularly the open-access requirements for DSL, actually discourage private investment... Who wants to build a new network if you then have to share it with competitors?

    So the only way we can have broadband is if monopolies build it. Righto, and gambling casinos will never work either, because if people don't win they won't come back.

  130. Let's create a new civilization while we're at it by DoctorFrog · · Score: 1
    Guess what? Not all users of Broadband are computer geeks, any more than all users of plumbing are plumbers, of electricity are electricians. "Internetworking these grids would be a relatively trivial task" to you, perhaps, and maybe to all your close circle of friends, but it would not be a trivial task to me or to mine.

    It would be a tremendously difficult task even to organize a beginning to such a network, because while most of my friends are geeks of some nature NONE of us are hard-core electronic geeks; I'm the closest to such that I know, and thus far I'm only scratching the surface.

    Wake up and take a look at the world around you, for the love of Mike; in a complex society we all depend on someone else to take care of some aspect of society's infrastructure.. We can't all be master plumbers, as well as civil engineers, as well as primary school teachers, as well as lawyers, as well as InterNet protocol designers. Kudos to you if you've found enough kindred souls to avoid the problem, but to most of us it isn't a trivial task to create such an alternative and the problem is a real one we can't sidestep.

  131. Lies, Damn Lies and politicians screwing america by Benjaman+McFree · · Score: 1

    Who wants to build a new network -- whether it's DSL, satellite, or "fiber to the home" -- if you then have to share it with competitors? If the government steps aside, they say, robust competition will develop between different technology "platforms" such as cable, phone, satellite and local wireless, giving consumers plenty of choices and stimulating a build-out of broadband infrastructure at the same time.

    What a load of dung! In the first paragraph it assumes that there is not enough profit incentive to deploy high speed access{kinda funny when here where I live TAXPAYERS PAID to deploy the Fiber which makes high speed access offerable and it IS the consumer demand which decides broadband success, not restrictions against consumers}; and when you get right down to it, we all know the fcc suxs and are part of an empire that seeks to kill FREE SPEECH and is part of an evil death star which will reap what it sows. This is the Globalization Plan, ie.. make the USA like China, then it won't matter what country you live in!

    --The "Free Market" is so laughable of a lie, when you have a bunch of greasy knuckleheads constantly screwing consumers and markets up completely; I'll roll my own telecommunications system out thank you very much!

  132. Platform competition?" by Alex+Belits · · Score: 2

    Relying on "platform competition" would be like relying on horses (dialup), cars (wireless) and airplanes (satellite) to unseat railroad monopolies (telcos) about a century ago -- sure, they all provide transportation, but only one of them has infrastructure built and suitable for low-cost service while others have to deal with basically a lot of empty space and technology that makes sense only where infrastructure is built, ot for some limited uses.

    --
    Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
  133. Re:Isn't long distance telephony bascially owned t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    don't fall for that guys troll bait

    DOJ did not initiate the action, ATT was already a government sanctioned utility

    the pieces you added are accurate too, but at the onset, ATT was a LEGAL monoploy

  134. Re:Isn't long distance telephony bascially owned t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you need to find a better source for your timeline than 2600 Magazine.

    ATT initiated the action to no longer be a regulated monopoly, not the DOJ

    perhaps you are confusing them with the failed DOJ action against IBM

  135. Re:Isn't long distance telephony bascially owned t by JordanH · · Score: 1
    You need to read up on your telecom history.

    I'm thinking, why would you lie about something that's so easily checked? Doesn't make much sense, really.

    This page has a timeline. Note that it states that the DOJ requested the breakup with the initial filing in 1974, 10 years before the actual breakup occurred.

  136. Re:Isn't long distance telephony bascially owned t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    yea, great, put up some dorky home made page

    got anything authoratitive like something saying ATT never asked to be broken up?

  137. Re:Isn't long distance telephony bascially owned t by JordanH · · Score: 1
    Now you are changing your stand. I myself pointed out that they asked to be broken up, but only in the face of the Anti-trust action.

    Do you dispute that the anti-trust action was brought in 1974 and that they broke up in 1984?

    When, exactly, are you saying AT&T asked to be broken up? 1973? When? Where's your sources?

  138. Re:Isn't long distance telephony bascially owned t by JordanH · · Score: 1
    As I said all along, AT&T did propose a breakup plan, but they would never have done it if it hadn't been for the anti-trust suit.

    You want something more authoritative?

    How about this where AT&T says:

    The suit began in 1974 and was settled in January 1982 when AT&T agreed to divest itself of the wholly owned Bell operating companies that provided local exchange service. This would, the government believed, separate those parts of AT&T (the local exchanges) where the natural monopoly argument was still seen as valid from those parts (long distance, manufacturing, research and development), where competition was appropriate.

    Clearly the suit in 1974 precipitated the breakup.

    Or, you can read here where Joel Klein, head of Antitrust litigation for the DOJ talks about the 1974 suit:

      • "While the Justice Department can't promise any consumer benefits that might result from its suit to break up [the company], it is sure of one thing: This is the largest antitrust action ever filed. So much for the mentality of modern-day trustbusters. As long as they can tackle the biggest of all 'big businesses,' what is the difference whether the massive expenditure of federal money and effort is likely to cut anyone's . . . bills?"

        "Where is the problem that justifies risking possible damage to the efficiency of a vital part of the U.S. infrastructure; damage to the investments of innumerable small investors and pension fund beneficiaries; possible damage to an important research and development enterprise? If there is a problem that justifies all this we can't find it. Maybe it is because we prefer to deal in economics, rather than politics in such matters."

      By now, you may have guessed that this is an editorial about the Department's monopoly maintenance case against AT&T, a 1974 editorial as a matter of fact; ...

    So, clearly the 1974 suit was aimed at a breakup of the AT&T monopoly.

    Which is the whole point. The Government, through the anti-trust suit, intiated the breakup of AT&T. Not some libertarian fantasy where monopolies voluntarily disperse under the control of the unseen hand.

  139. Too Young to Gamble? by MSN!+Messenger · · Score: 1
    NICOSIA (Reuters) - The odds-defying World Cup results that have confounded sports pundits have left a new class of savvy young Cypriot bettors laughing all the way to the bank and their parents -- and the authorities -- on the warpath.

    Authorities Wednesday were looking into claims that 12- and 13-year-olds obsessed with the game have lined up to bet on World Cup fixtures -- something perhaps unsurprising on the gambling-mad Mediterranean island .

    But local law says punters must be at least 18, the Philelephtheros daily reported.

    "If bookmakers started asking every single client for an identity card they would probably go bust," the father of a 14-year-old told Reuters.

    Encouraged by a string of wins, his son has been betting almost daily since the World Cup started.

    "I don't know what I am more angry at, the gambling or the winning. We haven't spoken in a week," he said resignedly.