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Vertical Keyboard vs Carpal Tunnel
An anonymous reader sent us links to a quite strange vertical keyboard which also links to a study that claims that this is more ergonomic than your usual board. Of course
at $347 it also better make me coffee.
You get carpal tunnel because of vertical keyboards. Problem solved.
.... but likely to cause neck strain for the hunt-and-peck typists out there...
This revolutionary keyboard is the only one that can place the user in a completely orthopedically neutral position while doing data entry and cannot be adjusted improperly by the user.
The result? The SafetypeTM is the only keyboard proven in a Major University Study to virtually eliminate the high-stress postures that contribute to Repetitive Stress Injuries, such as Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.
In fact, it makes so much sense that once you see our section on "How it works", you will probably understand more about keyboard ergonomics than most keyboard designers! Take a look right now, and you will see why NASA and the Technology Utilization Foundation chose this design as a promising future technology.
NEW! Streaming Video
Note: The Safetype(TM) keyboard is not offered as a cure for any medical condition.
For general information email info@safetype.com. For specific contact information click here.
How It Works | University Studies | About Us | Pricing and Ordering | Home Page
Don't eat shrimp candy, just a heads up.
...if you can't spill coffee on the important bits.
Every cloud has a silver lining (except for the mushroom shaped ones, which have a lining of Iridium & Strontium 90)
"Of course at $347 it also better make me coffee" OMG this is the funniest thing ive read all week!
i'll never know because once i heard that god awful sound i hit back.
Quote: The result? The SafetypeTM is the only keyboard proven in a Major University Study to virtually eliminate the high-stress postures that contribute to Repetitive Stress Injuries, such as Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.
My emphasis. This is always a big red flag. If it wasn't Podunk College, Thelma's Corner, AL, it would be named....
TODO: Something witty here...
For that much it should read my mind and type for me.
Hacker Media
"Of course at $347 it also better make me coffee."
At $347 it better make me a nice blo— never mind...
Is it really the keyboard that causes carpal tunnel syndrome? I've been going with a regular keyboard since my first computer (~10 years), and I'm just fine. ;).
Maybe some people are just more prone to carpal tunnel than others. Maybe it's just really bad typing habits (or not, because I think mine are horrible
-kidlinux.
I've always had a problem with my wrists and fingers hurting until i switched to the microsoft natural keyboard. Now when i hold my hands verticle and simulate typing it seems that my wrists are stressed much more than they are with the MSFT Natural keyboard. Your palm are always oriented towards earth when resting so wouldn't that be a much better natural position....plus the layout of the board makes using keyboard shortcuts very slow.
"So Unique this was awarded US Patent..."
They also awarded patents on how to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and how to exercise a cat. What's your point?
Holy s-, it's Jesus!
I like this, now the palms of your hand are correctly aligned for the various tasks at hand...
You might take this article with a grain of salt.
Comic Book Guy: "There is no Groening in my store."
Yes, but will it fit in my keyboard drawer under my desk? No? Hmmm... pass, then. I like my bendy keyboard anyway.
I just love that. I wonder which "major university" study sponsored this keyboard...
I'm all for ergonomics. It's only natural to use a more comfortable positioning when one can. But this is just WEIRD. Capitalization neccessary. Sure, you could stand on your head and type. It would be different. Not necessarily productive, just weird, no capitalization. $350 for WEIRDness? I'll hire a typist myself.....hmm, minimum wage, that's over sixty hours of them doing my work for me! I'll be happier that way.....or I could double my money by folding it in half and putting it in my pocket. Thank-you-very-much-have-a-nice-day.
"To make apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe." -Carl Sagan
Here's the patents that apply:
Hand grippable combined keyboard and game controller systemHand held gaming and data entry system
Ok, the vertical keyb fixes the problem in the wrists etc
;) )
but what about having to keep your arms in the air, without being able to lay them on the desk or so to type (am i the only one that does this?)
And.. The central keys: When you are typing, do you punch them with your head to use them fastly?;) (watch the video, and think to that
Nah, i stick to the old first-designed keyb
i'm in front of a pc sometimes 24/24 (are we geeks or not), and the worst i had were big headaches because of a too low refresh rate of the monitor (problem solved by now)
The old Keytronic FlexPro keyboard splits in the middle and can be cranked up to near vertical. I've been using this keyboard on two machines for about four years now (you do need to be a touch typist!) and it has helped with "keyboard elbow" (tendonitis) and some with shoulder/back pains. I don't have much problem with it except for my line-noise style passwords. I bought these from Egghead during their sell-off of bricks-and-mortar locations for $40 each.
I know that people tend to rest thier rists agains the desk, and this is a major source of carpal tunnel symptoms, but could the job be done with a mere 45 degree angle and maybe a hinge that allowed in to fold (to many degrees)? It seems as though gravity would take it's toll on your shoulders after keeping your hands in a vertical position 3 inches off the desk.
What bugs me about this keyboard is that the numeric keypad and the Insert/Delete/Home/etc. keys are in the middle. So when you want to use any of them you have to move your hand out and around or up and over. If they put those keys on the outside, I might consider buying one when the price gets down to, oh, less than you can buy a new (albeit bottom of the line) computer for.
-Alex
-- I prefer the term "karma escort."
From the link you mention:
...keen computer game players pound on keyboards and joysticks for hours on end, but seem to suffer few injuries as a result. Only when someone else is cracking the whip do workers start to be at risk.
Perhaps if, instead of paying $350 for a keyboard, the user got a $350 raise?
...since it was done before, supposedly by someone at Cornell University.
There's also the pyramid keyboard as well. I wonder how they compare...
libertarianswag.com
the Alternative Keyboard FAQ is here and has information about other kinds of keyboards.
also some news articles...
CU study: Vertical split keyboard lowers the injury risk for typists
Vertical Keyboard: the "Touch Easy."
Serously, I love my IBM 370 and my fingers would have to fall off in order for me to switch to anything else. The IBM 370 was the origional awsome keyboard and its still the best IMHO. You just can't beat that tactile response and clickity-click noise. Heck you could beat somebody over the head with this thing and there skull would break before the keyboard did. And any keyboard that can be used to beat somebody to death without harming said keyboard gets an A+ in my book. Besides who in there right mind would spend $347 on a freaking keyboard. I might as well buy a new processor or graphics card instead.
We're going to make information free Mr. Anderson, whether you like it, or not.
I am very glad that companies are willing to challenge the wrist grinding design of existing keyboards. I purchased a datahand recently as it was the most aggressive erognomic product on the market (all typos are due to my inexperience). I never thought twice about the large price tag... my monitor costs just as much, and if you are on the thing 10 hours a day then comfort is your primary concern not price.. a run in with RSI can cost you tens of thousands, so a couple hundred now to keep your hands from becoming stressed is a great investment.
The datahand salesman warned me that programmers often return the units because of the difficulty in switching between number/symbol mode and letter mode. The sell a foot pedals which make switching much easier, if you purchase a datahand, be sure to spring the extra duckets to get them.
So if the keyboard can give you similar speed,comfort, and accuracy as the datahand it is a real bargin..
At $347 a piece, it also includes a 14.4 modem and a thtppd web server. If you are an indian goddess you may run a beowulf cluster of these.
Trollem mirabilem hanc subnotationis exigiutas non caperet
...if you look at the site it says its the university of california at san diego (ucsd).
I can't seem to load it, but the "major university" seems like it may be Cornell... the link I can't load is labelled cornell.html anyway.
It must be this study
I don't know why they are playing this out to be some type of miracle keyboard when in fact each of their pages clearly states:
Note: The Safetype(TM) keyboard is not offered as a cure for any medical condition.
I know I won't be using their keyboard any time soon.
Remove the following keys:
Windows
Windows (on the other side)
Thing Next To Windows with the Arrow and menu thing(same side as above)
PrtScn
ScrLk
Pause
Home
End
Delete
Page Up
Page Down
Insert
UP arrow (But what about games??? you cry. Ever heard of WASD?)
DOWN arrow
LEFT arrow
RIGHT arrow
The whole friggin numeric keypad (this allows space for your mouse so you arm is not bent all over the side of your desk)
Finally, switch escape with caps lock (for all you friendly vi users), and optionally remove the function keys. Surprise! You now have a typewriter with shift, control, and alt. That's all ya need folks!The best part is...you can still use emacs! If you really need a numeric keyboard, you should be able to buy it separately.
Got friends?
So, by their defintion of Pronation, we should never ever turn our palms downward, because this causes problems. I'm sorry, but I think if that was half as harmful as they made it out to be, then humans wouldn't have the capacity to do it, or else problems would be more widespread.
I tried achieving the position they show for the pronation display, and i had to put my elbows on the table touching each other before i could get my hands to rotate like that. granded that might be harmful, but the fact that the other two joints in your arm rotate a bit makes it like their points are rather contrived.
Deviation might be a more legitimate concern, but looking at my own wrists it still seems as if they are exaggerating purposefully
If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
doh
FPGA, Wireless, ASIC, Verilog, VHDL, HW, 10yr exp, Team Lead, Ottawa (More? Email above. slashdotusername=dgmartin98 )
After looking at the keyboard, I was surprised to see that you had to actually hold your wrist above the desk (without a rest) in order to type. IMHO, that would be VERY uncomfortable after while.
Perhaps thats the point though... it gets so annoying after awhile that you get up and walk away in disgust, thus taking the recommended "break" that you'd otherwise have ignored.
Valid question. Like I'm going to get carpel tunnel from data entry....
Actually "the turning your wrists sideways to type" thing kind of makes sense in an engineering point of view.
Thinking way back to my statics class, the stress at any point in the beam is inversely proportional to the moment of inertia. Modeling your wrist as a rectangular beam 1" x 2", the moment of inertia is given by the formula .1667 inches ^ 4 to .6667 inches ^ 4. With a corresponding decrease in the stress on your wrists.
( b * h ^3 ) / 12
So turning your wrist sideways changes the moment of inertia from
However the actual stress savings will be less for the following reasons:
1. If your wrists are anything like mine, they are closer to being ellipses than rectangles, and concentrating more mass at the centers means that the turning sideways trick will make a smaller change in the moment of inertia. Also, measuring my wrists more closely, it looks like the values are 1.75" and 2.75". I just didn't want to dig out my calculator.
2. Whichever way you turn your wrists, they still have to handle the forces generated each time you push against a key. Think about "equal and opposite reaction" from one of Newton's laws.
Why, oh God, why must companies insist on putting $#%@#$%@#$% annoying sounds on their web pages?
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They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty nor security
I'm willing to believe that this keyboard is cool, but the fact is, there is no such thing as the perfect keyboard. Any kind of repetitive motion will cause some muscles to grow and others to atrophy. The result is that you are going to have to exercise those atrophied muscles no matter what keyboard you choose.
If you watch their little video, they talk about some positions that normal keyboards force your hands to be in. It's those positions that cause all of the problems that are associated with typing. Their keyboard purports to remove the problems by putting your hands in a more natural and neutral position.
A little over a year ago, slashdot posted an article about the Evolution Keyboard, now by Kinesis. I have had one of those for several years, and would recommend that anyone interested in the SafeType keyboard also check out the Evolution keyboard. (You can the review I posted to slashdot here.)
The SafeType keyboard is fixed in position, and they consider that to be one of its major features. While I can see that preventing users from futzing with the keyboard keeps them from moving it to a position where it can hurt them, I happen to really like the ability of the Evolution keyboard to move to whatever position I like. In fact, I can make it go completely vertical if I want, gaining all the advantages of the SafeType keyboard. I can even drop it to the sides of my chair, removing even one more "unnatural" position of my arms.
To me, having lots of choices in how I configure my work space is a good thing. And having a keyboard that fits this mindset is one of the most important parts.
All the employees at the company are going ape shit right now calling friends and telling them to buy stock in the company because their website is so busy ;)
Try this:
Relax and stand up; arms down, totally relaxed.
What way do you're hands fall? Palms toward legs... This is the CENTER of the range of movement of you're hand and requires no physical strain to hold this position...
Not being able to put you're elbows down kind of sucks tho...
hard core geek-ware
From the "How it works" page:
(Reminder: Bookmark this page to use for comparing keyboards.)
Hmm, there was something I was supposed to do...
I'm gonna use this on all of my pages now:
(Reminder: Bookmark this page to use for noticing how sexy I am)
(Reminder: Bookmark this page to use for seeing pictures of my dog)
(Reminder: Bookmark this page to use for filling up your bookmarks)
I kiss you!
not this again -- it's been a year or so but a 'this funky keyboard will cure carpal tunnel' article always come up eventually.
Basically, ONE keyboard will never solve your carpal tunnel problems. carpal tunnel is a result of continous stress on specific parts of the wrist. and it is still not completely understood how to prevent it. i found that my moderate to severe wrist pain ceased when i started alternating keyboards. i use two: a regular keyboard and a Kinesis classic. by using these very different keyboards i work different muscles and distribute the stress throughout my hands which (in theory) prevents most harm from occuring.
Kinesis keyboards are sort of expensive but it is by far my favorite keyboard. took about a week to get used to (hint: be lazy, don't reach so far for keys). i got my boss to buy it ($275) for me after some mild whining.
fear is the mind killer
"Of course at $347 it also better make me coffee."
And mow my lawn, cuddle with my girlfriend after sex, make breakfast, and walk my dog!
i saw the picture,
and i had to check the date;
it's not april fools already is it?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Not a chance of me buying one, even to try out.
Very pathetic site..."awarded a patent"??? Give me a break!
At this price, I could buy a lot of much sexier hardware than this.
From the website:
:-)
"So unique it was awarded U.S. Patent #5137384"
As we all know, ideas must be completely unique in order to have the rare honor of being approved by the extremely stringent U.S. Patent office.
Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. --E. W. Dijkstra
The video also goes to great lengths to explain why the angles our hands go on with a conventional keyboard are bad, but replaces this with a design which involves having your hands in the air constantly. WTF? Try using this for an full day.
The server is busy at this time
Windows Media Player cannot connect to the server that has the file you want to play; the server is too busy to handle your request at this time. The server may not be powerful enough to handle a large number of connections at a given time.
Try to play the file at a later time.
Error ID = 0xC00D0006, Remedy ID = 0x00000000
Sound on a website? How 90s. Thanks for not warning us in the post
I can't keep my arms extended like that for more than 5 minutes without getting extreamly tired. It's called gravity and it makes this product suck. Maybe Astronauts can use it.
Anon is not real. I was logged in with mod points and checked the box to "Post Anonymously" because i commented in the article. Then I noticed I couldnt mod it my Anon post at all. If it was true anon then I could mod it once. I also cant see the post when i am logged out. I am going to check this post logged in and give you the scoup. I posted this logged out.
For $347, that keyboard had better be giving me some sexual satisfaction!
Though *BSD is sick, it certainly is not as near death as LNUX is. LNUX will be remembered as one of the greatest loz3rs en histoire.
After destroying several cheap plastic keyboards in succession, I got myself an IBM Model M, the original "clicky" keyboard. It uses buckling springs and capacitance switches, it's built like a tank, lasts forever, and its diswasher safe.
There is no other keyboard out there with the sweet tactile response of a Model M. They can be had for 15-20 bucks + shipping on E-Bay. One of the sellers offers them used, but protected with the old "keyboard condom" dust covers - get one of those, clean it up with some isopropyl and WD-40, and you'll have a keyboard that is in mint condition.
Meldroc, Waster of Electrons
The best way to prevent repeated motion injuries is to vary the motion by forcing the person to change tasks regularly ... not by doing quick stretch-routines. I haven't seen any evidence that one can prevent repeated motion injuries by performing 5-minute "stretching exercises". How is a 5-minute stretch going to prevent damage caused by 8 hours of fixed positions or repeated motion?
All of the ergo-consultants I've seen ... they travel around the country at some other company's expense ... they're always smiling ... they're not held accountable if they're recommendations cause more pain or injuries ... and they all have nice tans. Why is ergonomic equipment so expensive? A footrest for $50 ?!? Snake oil, I say.
At $347 it had better swallow.
I'm 5'9" (1.7 m) and 225lbs (100Kg). I've also been touch typing for about 25 years. Now....everyone play along with this and find out where your neutral position is. I'll bet it's probably not the same as mine.
... my arms more like a V than parallel. I measured it, and the most comfortable position is my fingertips about 4 inches (10cm) apart.
First off, let's assume that the vertical position of your hands is actually better.
Place your hands like the one's in the picture of the Safetype keyboard. Now, when I do this, I feel a pressure in my sholders suggesting that my hands should be closer together
Now, look at your hands and wiggle your fingers as if you were typing. When I do this, my fingers are curled and move towards and away from me, not on the side like the Safetype keyboard. Except for my thumb, it moves up and down. Even neater.
So, my 10 minute research suggests that they take their keyboard and rotate it away from the body, and allow the user to control the distance between the two halves. Also, move the space bar, and maybe a few other keys like caps and esc to the top for the thumbs. THAT would be more ergonomic than the contraption they have.
The only drawback I can see, and the Safetype keyboard would have the same problem, is that my hands rest on the outside edges. I would guess that this would be very irritating after awhile.
Can I have my government grant now????
I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
"The mirrors slide up from their stowed position, and it is important that you push up in the correct place to avoid damage."
Now I really want to buy this keyboard. Not only do I have to keep my hands in midair and adjust mirrors to read the numbers backwards, but I can also cause damage by pushing in the wrong place!
The only reason you'd get carpal tunnel, or anything related is if your posture and wrist position isn't very good. You don't need a special keyboard, just some common sense.
For $347, it better make me crack.
/^[A-Z0-9._%+-]+@[A-Z0-9.-]+\.[A-Z]{2,4}$/i
I can go to the website if i want to be a consumer zombie.
Forget the coffee - at $347, the damn thing better have a blowjob attachment.
Lost: Sig, white with black letters. No collar. Reward if found!
When people put their hands to the keyboard, they'll find that their fingers are like mirror opposites. Yet the keys line up in one direction. To see what I mean, look at r f v and u j m. f and j are up above v and m, and to the left. I believe that f and j should be up and to the centre. When your hands are on the keyboard, the fingers will naturally reach up to the centre.
This won't help everybody, because many people are happy with their keyboards, but it will help some people. I'm sure that my idea won't hurt anybody. That's for sure.
testing out my trending skills
I remember back in college I saw a keyboard this dude had that could move into nearly every position imaginable. From the MS Natural Style to this vertical ability. Just with out the side mirrors to scope out cops.
I don't see this as an industry innovation but hey... if it sells keyboards.
What I would like to see is complete Voice Recognition computers. Not for gaming obviously but for all operations and data entry. That would be an ergonomical breakthrough. Until people start coming down with laringitis for talking all day.
Well I thought it was a good idea.
~Char Lander
Brothers and sisters I have none, but this mans father is my fathers son
Get two cheap-ass USB keyboards, a block of wood, and some duck tape. Now spend the $327 you just saved on something worthwhile.
-Mike
(Writing code on shitty, flat, non-ergo keyboards for years with zero pain. Exercise, stretch, and don't home-row, folks.)
something like a flute that would hang between your legs.
Now that would be a natural keyboard.
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
this really does seem like an ideal keyboard design, but i don't see any mention of it being qwerty or dvorak.
sig.
Have your keyboard in the natural ass-scratching position.
(and make one for under $20)
go away. That's a big price to pay in my opinion.
but more with posture than the keyboards.
And it generally takes a long time to develop.
A lot of people who think they have carpal tunnel syndrom have tendonitis.. and really just need some exercise.
Lift a few freeweights once or twice a week, it makes a HUGE difference to your typing endurance.
I am content with 2 Maxiswitch MaxiproII kbds and a happy hacking kbd lite. Each of those keyboards is fine for Emacs since the ESC and CNTL are where they should be (ESC to the left of the '1' and CNTL next to 'A"). And so it was written!
22 years and no hand problems using Emacs with that kbd arrangement. (using emacs on a dec-20 back then).
Hedley
I am typing this, right now, with a plastic stylus on a Palm V.
It is very painful.
Although the thing seems like a good idea, the really brilliant part is the dual mirrors- not so you can see your hands, but to prevent stealth attacks during Nerf cubicle warfare.
You're right, Caps Lock is no longer useful for trolling slashdot, now that it has lameness filters. Remove the key.
Regarding left handed people, you might notice that there's still the whole right side of the board intact, brought to you by the letters I, J, K, and L.
Got friends?
There is no such thing as "so unique". The definition of "unique" is "one of a kind". Either something is one of a kind or it isn't. It is therefore impossible for something to be "kind of unique" or "very unique" or "so unique". With each passing day I lose more patience with analphabets who assert the contrary. BTW, I saw an impressive demonstration Of Dragon Naturally Speaking today, which would appear to be a more certain solution to the issues which this keyboard addresses.
This seems a little odd.
The keyboard lets you keep yor wrists in a more natural vertical orientation, but forces you)
Get two USB keyboards and a lot of duct tape. What do you get? Your ergonomic keyboard :)
Three reasons why I don't need this anyway:
1) My elbows stick out, yes. But what are arm rests for then (well, maybe I need to say elbow rests).
2) The elevation of my keyboard (aproximately 4 inches above my elbows) keeps my wrists from bending up or down (propper angle). So I can let my wrists hang on my "incorrect" ergo keyboard's wrist pad.
3) My wrists don't twist (much) either because my elbows are out sitting on my arm rests.
I guess it's just a matter of sitting back improperly in my improper chair with my improper ergo keyboard and having fun on a computer. And let off your hands every few minutes.
Plus, try playing Quake 3 or Tribes 2 on that. It would be a nightmare.
There's my two cents.
this
DOH! ;)
Forgot to put it in Plain text. Pretend there are
's in there
The keyboard lets you keep your wrists in a more natural vertical orientation, but forces you to hover your arms so you can touch the keys correctly.
This forces your shoulders (and then your back) to hold the weight of your arms while you are typing. This is very ergonomically incorrect.
The manuals for every chair that I have ever owned tells me that the armrests are positioned correctly when the weight of my arms is off my shoulders, and on the armrests.
Even their own image shows the users arms far above the chair, and the desk.
It seems like they are trading 1 improvement for the loss of 2.Besides, how the hell do you see your monitor with the keyboard in the way???
The answer seems almost obvious dude.
:)
If you have a business that employs data entry people, you want them to enter data for 8 hours a day, not 7.
This keyboard will let you work them like dogs while still showing your employees that you love them
"What are you doing Cindy? No breaks any more! You've got those new keyboards, now GET BACK TO WORK!!"
Looks pretty comfortable for the wrists, but I bet holding your hands up in the air like that would shift the problems up to your shoulders and back. You would need like a 3-inch tall wrist rest in front of it, which would have to be nicely padded because you would be leaning on the bones rather than the undersides... Think I'll hold off on this one (even if it is unique enough to get a patent).
/. posted an article about three years ago (no I am NOT searching the archives to find it damnit!) about how vertical keyboards where better for the user and how those little thingies to prop up the back of keyboards just fucked up wrists more.
.. bending your wrists back, back, letting them go forward au natural, good. Yeesh.
People still don't listen to be about it though. .
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
Yes, it removes extension, deviation and pronation. But it causes your hands to either HANG or to be supported by the edge of a palm during rest times. It will be noncomfortable after a couple of hours. In comparison, when you don't use the usual keyboard your hand is supported by all the palm surface which is much bigger and specifically able to withstand it. And your fingers rest on F and J keys, so you may immediately lift your hands and begin touch-typing.
Now, look at the position of arrow keys. In order to use them you must lift your LEFT hand, carry it over the keyboard and land it on the arrows. Do this some thousand times a day and you either become a weightlifter or sufferer. It will be usable only when you don't use the arrows and use the mouse instead. Since the ordinary people press
the arrows with RIGHT hand, attempt to do so on this keyboard will result to MUCH MORE deviation.
Possibly the Happy Hacking Keyboard in this form will work much better than the original 101-key because it has much less keys and so they ALL can be placed vertically.
Windows stinks mice
When will we get keyboards that resemble Star Trek TNG LCARS?
Linux: When reboots are for upgrades.
As much as a completely flat & rectangular keyboard cramps up my wrists, this keyboard would be just plain awkward for me. the keyboard I use is pretty tame compared to the radical design of this vertical type, but I remember when I bought my (Generic ergo keyboard, which resembles the M$ Natural) keyboard, I thought it was quite the wacky design, but it turned out to be quite comfortable, and I still use it.
Maybe I should try DVORAK someday.
in the wallet!
Anyone that buys this keyboard is truely insane. $550 canadian for the thing put it at 2/3rds the cost of a entire cheap system.
I never get any pain in my hands unless I'm typing for a few hours straight, but let me tell you, if I had to keep my hands raised in the air for 3 hours, I have a feeling they will be a lot more sore then anything on a horizontal keyboard.
I don't know many people that can type without sight of the keys on a keyboard, sometimes things just get screwed up. And what about all us guys that browse.... one handed....
Also, in a quick test of holding my hands in the air at about the right height and pretending to type, my arms got tired in a few minutes.
While IT Director at a major oil company, a division HR Manager asked me to help solve the RSI complaint of an employee who was only affected by RSI at work (After work, she could golf, garden, play HOCKEY etc.).
So I got her one of these chairs (a different brand) and the HR Manager agreed to have her workstation and this chair adjusted by an ergonomic consultant. This included recording all measurements/angles etc.
The woman simply could not adapt to the keyboards on the armrests and her next complaint demanded VOICE RECOGNITION SOFTWARE. (not too available for the old JDEdwards text-based app on an AS/400)
Instead, we noted that she had changed all the settings on her chair and removed the elevation blocks under her monitor.
SAFETY VIOLATION!!!! This is a BIG DEAL in an industry where OSHA compliance is so essential. "Failure to utilize provided essential ergonomic safety devices", "Intentionally circumventing protective devices"
Guess what? After that HR Visit, NO MORE COMPLAINTS.
You know I used to play the sax, and inorder to keep your arms from losing placement and to cange the angle of the mouth piece you had a little hook to put your thumb on... Now where am I going with this? Why wouldn't an inteligent individual incorpate some sort of arm rest, instead of some cracked out mirrors to confuse the typer...
Just a Thought.
now only if there was an ergonomic chair to get rid of this line that ends at my chest and starts at my gut! come on.... you know what i'm talkin about.. when you sit down and hunch over,its there... when you stand up, it goes away but the wrinkle is still around. I guess prevention is the key
Noisy flash crap while I'm earing music on my computer, they lost a potential customer...
Flouride causes cancer and *genetic* *mutation* if you listen to the right people. (Maybe I can score a date with a certain X5, if I mutate, though!)
Erm, right, where am I going?
Keyboard user. 120+ wpm, depending on my mood/adrenaline.
I don't use that homerow crap they teach you. My fingers descend upon the keys only when striking them. I don't look at the keyboard at all, and rarely make mistakes.
For some reason, I can type for upwards of six+ hours and not have one whit of pain. Not in my fingers, never in my wrists. In all honesty, the only real pain I've ever had was from marathon FPS sessions, and then, in my right hand/wrist. Where is my mouse? To the right of my keyboard.
I can't *type* on an MS Natural keyboard. It actually hurts after about twenty minutes, for me.
So, I ask, are they certain that current-day keyboards are so 'bad'? That they're the cause of RSI/CTS? I think at this point, we know that improper mouse use can do bad things. But, I don't see a mad rush on ergonomic mice.
Why keyboards? I have no pain now, but admittedly, I don't type 'correctly'. Is that why? Because I'm typing in, perhaps, a more correct way?
Maybe it is that my hands aren't touching the keys unless striking them. Perhaps they're getting regular 'breaks', eliminating the need to take a rest every hour. I don't know. All I know is that the MS Natural/other ergo keyboards cause me pain. So, I think at the least, that it isn't the shape of the keyboard, but what you do with your hands that causes/prevents RSI/CTS/etc.
...and found out thet vertical keyboards do not exactly feel ergonomic.
Mice are the most pain-inducing device for me. The 3M mouse is the best mouse I've used. I recommend giving it a try if mice make you hurt. Works better for me than my old Logitech Trackman Marble FX.
Why are you reading the comments if you are so outraged by seeing the linked article?
... but largely becuase my grandfather did some of the seminal work on it and coined the term: ;-)
0 7/qid=1023537597/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_0_1/202-7462303-9 644620
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/04120780
But yeah, there's a lot of crap out there.
Has anyone tried taking a standard keyboard and placing it at a 45 angle so that the right side of the keyboard is touching the back of your mousepad (roughly) and the left side is closer to you? It's much more comfortable to type on once you train your fingers to type at an angle without bending your wrists, and makes the transition of keyboard to mouse easier for your right hand.
I think the new vertical keyboard will be good for wrist motion, especially up-down motion where it counts for us men;-)
What a load of horseshit.
:wq
This one's old. Anyway they're all at keyalt.com
/A
I switched to the Kinesis-Ergo keyboard a couple years, and have never had wrist pain since. Here's a place I found with great prices on them:
http://www.dmb-ergonomics.com/mailtok2.htm
We could all see this coming, the only problem is that I can only see it catching on for people who "know" the keyboard layout already - ie nerds and typists :p, namely because people that have to keep on looking to either side for a key wont be happy - I'd love a go of one though, see if its any better
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My Microsoft natural pro only just fits in the space for keyboards in my desk, this new "vertical" keyboard aint exactly space friendly, unless it can be folded up when not in use.
Still, it would make a great gizmo for the "must haves" brigade, who have more money than sense.
Milambar Help Services Director - irc.sorcery.net
see the pic here ? See the ring? Would you buy from some one with two left hands? ;)
b4n
Often overlooked is the fact that wrist pain can be the result of back trouble. All the nerves that go to your hands (or nearly every other part of your body for that matter) travel down the inside of your spine and then out between the vertebra. So, a "crick" in your neck or back may result in pinched nerves, which is likely to be perceived as pain in an extremity. This is why posture, regular breaks and stretching and exercise are so key; slumping and frailty tend to screw up your back alignment, and can cause pinched nerves.
Is a moderate mechanical response; a gentle but reassuring clackety-clack when I press the keys.
That's something we haven't had since when, the XT keyboards? All this membrane bollocks is so impersonal.
I don't need new layouts, I need a back to basics keyboard...
Blearf. Blearf, I say.
this is just one example of a product that you won't see becoming popular because its patent restricts its creation/selling.... grrr. i hate patents.
I had a friend who was working in the Occupational Therapy section of the army. Before you say it, Yes I had no idea that this was a "trade" in the Army either. Anyway, he had told me of such a vertical keyboard design. Supposedly the vertical design puts your hands/wrist in a more natural position. I imagine that it might take some time getting used to this method of typing. However, for someone with bad wrists this may be their saving grace.
you get carpal tunnel because you have to have a genetic predisposition to it (I should know I have had it an the opperations both hand 11 years ago), as for ergonomics, when I last sure the hand specialists I was referred to for a latter mystery condition, they told me that no-one can define ergonomic, it's differrent from one person to the next, you just have to adjust thing till you don't have strain, i.e. find the mouse for you etc.... One things for sure past experience with what sets my hands off, tells me that there board would kill my hands, which is par for the course, so far every ergonomic thing I've ever heard of, ended up in court over RSI etc....
in my life God comes first.... but Linux is pretty high after that
Francis Smit