Greenbacks No More

Chacham writes "The Financial Times has an article about the US adding colors to some denominations of US currency. Apparently, with both size and color the same, foreigners have a hard time differenciating between the bills.I still haven't gotten used to the larger pictures. And now this? As Kermit the frog sang, It's not easy being green." The Federal Reserve has a press release. At least there's no mention of RFID tags.

Comments

Huh?

[imta11]

What the hell is paper money? Is that what my parents used to buy things?

Re:Huh?

[martyn s]

I think they just mean people who aren't too familiar with our currency. Kinda how all asians look alike to people who aren't asian. You're not good at distinguishing things you aren't familiar with.

Re:Huh?

[Yunzil]

And, U.S. residents DON'T have difficulty?

Well, no, actually. But it's probably because we know what the money looks like. I've been in England a couple times, where the paper money is a different size and has a different color scheme for each denomination; and I have a MUCH harder time differentiating between a 5 and 10 pound note versus a 5 and 10 dollar bill. I always end up pulling it out of my wallet and peering closely at it before handing it over, like some kind of bloody foreigner. :)

Re:Huh?

[darkonc]

Numbers are one thing, but once you get used to distinguishing by color, you stop looking at numbers.

Here in Canada, it's pretty easy" 5's are blue, 10's are purple, 20's are green and 50's are red. and 100's are brown. (this used to cause problem for some people when we still had 2's -- which were orange. Under sodium lights, you actually had to look at the numbers, or risk paying $100 for a $2 item).

It's not that I have lost the ability to read number, but why??? I look at the crumpled bill that I pull from my pocket, and I can tel by the blue bits all over it that i've got a 5. No need to unfold it to find the silly number, and no need to make sure that there isn't an extra '0' after the '5'.

If a bill falls out of my pocket in the wind, I can tell at a glance if it's worth chasing after. In a good wind, a blue $5 isn't worth trying to catch... If it's red, I'll be willing to chace that $50 for a couple of blocks.

Re:Huh?

[guttentag]

This is simply retarded... All because of a few morons who couldn't count.

No one would dare to kill a retarded idea now that the Supreme Court has barred killing retarded murderers.

Re:Huh?

[Mr Windows]

Yeah, those numbers are so obvious. I mean, you'd have to be blind not to see them.

[ fx: whisper, stage left ]

Oh, some people are blind?

It appears that some countries [ hint: "colour", "defence" ] have bills of different sizes... That sounds suspiciously un-American...

Re:Huh?

[gad_zuki!]

If numbers are too tough, then you shouldn't be playing with that much money anyway. In 2004, we get to hear about how this system discriminates against the color blind.

Nice non-sequitur there.

Color is a huge advantage in usability. The rest of the world uses color to discern the differences and it works. People don't have to inspect the corners or whose face is in the middle. Its a simple and straightforward idea.

There are also side benefits. If you've ever worked in retail you probably have come across the common switch-aroo scam. With colored currency this will almost be impossible to pull off, or at the very least make potential criminals a little hesitant on trying to claim they gave you purple bill when they really gave you a yellow one.

This isn't really about tourists. Its about catching up with the world in currency technology. Europe was inserting the little metallic strips into their currency way before the US. This is the next step.

Re:Huh?

[jedidiah]

This is simply untrue. You don't need to expose a large portion of a US bill in order to read the number. Perhaps European currency isn't numbered in a sensible location and thus thsoe bills need an extra visual cue. Perhaps Europeans created their own problem, one that the US didn't subject itself to.

Re:Huh?

[dadragon]

You seem to be missing my point. With Canadian notes, you don't even need to see the number. After looking, I find that the Canadian numbers are in the upper left and lower right of both sides, but it's still easier to look at its colour than its number.

And yes, it would slow me down quite a lot if I had to actually look at the numbers. You have to look at a certain portion of the note, not just at the note in general.

Have you ever had to sort money into stacks of 5s, 10s, and 20s? If you have, I'm sure you'd be all for colour coding your bills.

Re:Huh?

[jedidiah]

Except there is no "secret handshake" involved in what a number on a piece of currency might mean. Those numbers mean the same thing world over and have meant the same thing for CENTURIES. Those numbers even predate currency they get printed on.

There is no such standardization or history when it comes to coloring money.

"stupid" has nothing to do with it.

Re:Huh?

[jedidiah]

As I implied earlier, the need to colorize money is merely the indication of fundemental flaws in it's original design. You need the color on the Canadian bills because the denomination isn't printed in every corner.

If the US were to color code currency, the denomination should still be printed on every corner.

Re:Huh?

[Dun Malg]

recognizing shapes takes more brain power than colours

Aha! So that's why we 'mericans is smarter than everyone else: our money makes us think more!

Re:Huh?

[dadragon]

As I implied earlier, the need to colorize money is merely the indication of fundemental flaws in it's original design.

What? So your position is that Canadian money is flawed because it has colour? That it is somehow just as easy to look at numbers as it is to see its colour? Let's say, hypothetically I have terrible eyesight and can't read the number on the American bill, what I do? Look at it real close. In Canada, I'd just say "Hey, green!, good I needed $20"

You need the color on the Canadian bills because the denomination isn't printed in every corner.

You need the denomination printed in every corner because the Americans bills don't have colour. Your argument works both ways.

I don't need the demonination printed on the bill because it's colour coded, but you're bills do. I think that if the US colour coded its bills, they'd be the same except for the ink used.

Re:Huh?

[ncc74656]

And, U.S. residents DON'T have difficulty?

Well, no, actually. But it's probably because we know what the money looks like. I've been in England a couple times, where the paper money is a different size and has a different color scheme for each denomination; and I have a MUCH harder time differentiating between a 5 and 10 pound note versus a 5 and 10 dollar bill.

I lived in England and Germany for a couple of years each, and don't recall ever having used color or size to tell different bills apart. Hell, I'd clue in on "Zwanzig Deutsche Mark" before the color or shape would even register. I don't have a clue what color a DM 20 bill was...not that they're used anymore anyway.

Re:Huh?

[mpe]

It appears that some countries [ hint: "colour", "defence" ] have bills of different sizes...

It's more like most of the planet. Where, outside of the US, do they issue paper money printed on the same size notes using the same colour scheme? Even in the US they have coins of different shapes, sizes and colour.

Re:Huh?

[mpe]

If you've ever worked in retail you probably have come across the common switch-aroo scam. With colored currency this will almost be impossible to pull off, or at the very least make potential criminals a little hesitant on trying to claim they gave you purple bill when they really gave you a yellow one.

Even more so if the money is different sizes too.

This isn't really about tourists. Its about catching up with the world in currency technology. Europe was inserting the little metallic strips into their currency way before the US.

That's probably half the problem, the US is a strongly NIH country.

Re:Huh?

[Gordonjcp]

You make a fair point, but why should you make it hard for people to save complexity in machines? In the UK, ATMs and note counters manage just fine with several different sizes of note. Having them different colours and sizes makes it easier for visually impaired (God I hate that term) people to identify notes.

Re:Huh?

[jcostom]

Of course comparing dollar values is idiotic without considering purchasing power, and on that stat the Canadian dollar is almost at par with the US $ for most goods.

Insightful, my foot.

Last time I checked, I could get about $1.50CA for every $1US. Hmm. Where I come from, this means that the $US has 1.5x the purchasing power of the $CA.

Why on earth do you think that people from the US that live near CA go over the border to shop????

Re:Huh?

[darkonc]

Last time I checked, I could get about $1.50CA for every $1US.

Exchange rate is only part of the issue. It turns out that, in Vancouver, Canada, my $1CAN will buy about the same as your $1US bill will buy in Los Angeles.

I noticed that effect when I went out to buy film (I use film like some people use toilet paper). The prices for film are the same in the States and Canada ($7 for a 36 roll)... In other words I get about a 30% discount by stocking up at home, after the exchange rate is figured in.

There are a few reasons for this .. some are market driven. Others are things like the fact that the cost of health care is handled by taxes. In the US, health care takes a big bite out of a worker's income -- thus requiring higher wages (and higher insurance payments to handle any accidental occurrence).

Re:Huh?

[jcostom]

It turns out that, in Vancouver, Canada, my $1CAN will buy about the same as your $1US bill will buy in Los Angeles.

Be that as it may, I don't see that as the spirit of the original statement, given the distance between two points of purchase. I read the original comment as if he was somehow under the (delusional) impression that my $1US was somehow worth the same as his $1CAN. Since we're talking about a comparison, it's reasonable to expect to be comparing under the same conditions. In terms of buying power the $US is still much (50%) stronger. Of course, time is the great equalizer, and could change that - hey, you never know..

Now the whole health care thing is just silly. I get to keep an enormous percentage of my salary that I'd have to give up in the land of maple leaves, and get my health care for about $50/month, and that's because I chose the better medical and dental plans. The whole notion of your government having to be your daddy is just dumb. I'd rather have my government keep its nose out of my business whenever possible.

No more green

[tomhudson]

Well, here in Canada, we've had funny-looking money for ages. It was supposed to help cut down on counterfeiters, but bubble-jets keep getting better - they're even cloning the $5 bills now!

Re:No more green

[silicon_synapse]

From the linked articles, it seems one of the major motivations for changing the color is to help tourists distinguish between denominations. Is it really that hard to read the big number on any of the corners of the bill? It's also printed out elsewhere on the bill. How are colors going to help if tourists can't make sense of the numbers?

Re:No more green

[brocheck]

Thats alright, the ink required to make a counterfeit $5 bill costs $7.95.

Re:No more green

[dcgaber]

Last time I was in Canada and changing $ at the bank, I wanted to get some $50 bills. I was told specifically not too as many stores do not take the $50 anymore due to the high counterfitting of them.

Re:No more green

[jmd!]

> to help tourists distinguish between denominations

Maybe they're tourists from ancient Rome, and can't read Arabic numbers.

Re:No more green

[JoeBuck]

Well, here in Canada, we've had funny-looking money for ages. It was supposed to help cut down on counterfeiters, but bubble-jets keep getting better - they're even cloning the $5 bills now!

Given what inkjet printer cartridges cost, anyone using an inkjet to counterfeit a Canadian $5 (which is worth a hair more than $3 US) would probably lose money.

Re:No more green

[ergo98]

In reality the rate of counterfeiting is remarkably low (indeed : Virtually every "We don't take $100s" sign in Ontario is the result of a single little Windsor counterfeiting operation getting a lot more press than actual results), however because debit card machines are so prevalent throughout Canada (bit of history: Because we have only a few big banks across the entire country, they were way ahead of the US in forming a country-wide electronic transfer system), paper money is becoming more of a hassle than its worth: Not only do those $50s put you at a maginally higher risk of having counterfeits (albeit marginal), it also means that you have to have the float to store change for that, which means that you'll be a much likelier victim of a robbery.

The condensed version of that goes as such : Debit machines are so common and so heavily used that retailers are in the process of actively discouraging the use of actual paper money, and I wouldn't be suprized to see some store actually refuse to take any money within the next couple of years (P.S. Before someone claims that that's illegal and they have to take "legal tender", blah blah: Actually they don't, and any merchant is well within their rights to refuse paper money).

Re:No more green

[DarkZero]

Maybe they're tourists from ancient Rome, and can't read Arabic numbers.

I actually thought of that, too, because the same would apply to people from Japan, China, North or South Korea, Taiwan, etc. However, if someone can't remember which distinct set of squiggly lines is what number, then I doubt that colors would help them.

Re:No more green

[Sentry21]

I learned while in Montreal that the latest trick is to take a bunch of fives, bleach the colour off, and print tens onto them. The holographic stuff is still there, but bill readers see a ten and not a five, and change machines double your money. Some guys apparantly got rich in the south shore doing this.

Talk about paying good odds. That's even better than the change machine I found in Amsterdam that was paying out 5:8.

--Dan

Re:No more green

[Jonathan]

What's worse is that while many stores don't take $50's, the ATMs (at least TD Bank's) still give them out if you take more than $100 (which in Canadian dollars isn't that much) out.

Re:No more green

[ncc74656]

What's worse is that while many stores don't take $50's, the ATMs (at least TD Bank's) still give them out if you take more than $100 (which in Canadian dollars isn't that much) out.

That's different...here in the States, it's rare to find an ATM that dispenses anything other than $20s. (The two ATMs in front of the student union at UNLV dispense $5s last time I checked...those are the only ATMs I've ever run across that hand out something other than $20s.) If you withdraw $300 (which I've done maybe once or twice ever...I don't like to carry more than $20 or so), you get a stack of fifteen bills.

Sight impaired

[Anonymous Coward]

Different sizes helps the sight impaired.

Re:Sight impaired

[or_smth]

Just FYI, up here in Canada they decided to put brail on the money itself. It's pretty neat stuff, shows that they are really thinking.

The money isn't different sizes, but it is different colours and to tell you the truth, it just feels a lot better. Add that to the fact that we have $1 and $2 coins, and we have a new-age money system.

And it just feels cooler :)

Re:Sight impaired

[Bob McCown]

Just FYI, up here in Canada they decided to put brail on the money itself. .

Cool, so I can counterfeit canadian money with a paper cutter and a hole punch now, as long as I only pass money to blind people. WOO HOO!

Re:Sight impaired

[totallygeek]

Supposedly the large number on the back of the bill with no decoration surrounding it was for the sight impaired. I read somewhere that color would not work that well because of fading, color blending and people with color blindedness.

Does anyone remember seeing some bills a long time ago printed with red ink? Am I dreaming?

Re:Sight impaired

[scrytch]

Don't know about red bills, but I remember being handed some US Silver Certificates once, which look just like $1 bills, but have little blue banners on them. Legal tender nonetheless. Guy paid for a sandwich with 'em. Those things are worth, like $50 a pop to coin collectors.

And I didn't have any money on me to exchange the damn things in the register with. Fooey.

Re:Sight impaired

[jcsehak]

up here in Canada they decided to put brail on the money itself.

That's a really great idea. Not only is it good for blind people, but it would be great for checking how much money you have without taking your hands out of your pockets. I wish they'd do that here in the US.

Re:Sight impaired

[Dun Malg]

My god in heaven! Bears? Loons? Freekin' hockey? What's next, every fiver will have a different cartoon strip on it? Is this what you people want our dignified US currency to become?

Re:Sight impaired

[ncc74656]

Does anyone remember seeing some bills a long time ago printed with red ink? Am I dreaming?

I have a $2 bill somewhere that has the Treasury seal in red instead of green. It doesn't identify itself as a Federal Reserve Note; it's labeled as a United States Note.

Re:Sight impaired

[darien]

What I'd really like is Bluetooth banknotes, so I could see how much money I had without even having to put my hands in my pockets.

Vending Machines

[Dystopium]

Damn, I just go my vending machines to accept the new bills. Now I have to do it all again.

Re:Vending Machines

[Bob McCown]

Who sticks a $20 in a vending machine?

You obviously have never taken a 9 year old and a couple of his friends to a video arcade...

Re:Vending Machines

[kwishot]

In which country have you been living? There are new $10's.....AND $5's.

Foreigners?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, cause those Europeans spell "20" as... umm... "20".

Re:Foreigners?

[kafka93]

It's interesting that most of the Americans posting seem to find it incredible that anyone might find their currency even a little confusing -- whilst many of the non-Americans have agreed that the money could be improved.

I suppose this suggests two alternative interpretations: first, that Americans are more intelligent and sophisticated than the rest of the world. Second, that Americans have become so accustomed to the process of having to look closely at their bills that they have come to believe that there is no alternative, and that no other circumstance could *possibly* be more convenient, more useful to those less fortunate (such as the sight-impaired) - in short, that America leads the world and that everyone else in the world is doing things wrongly.

Which view is accurate? I suppose that depends upon the country you're living in. (Yes, there *are* other countries..)

Re:Foreigners?

[Mr. Sketch]

Actually it's because they don't think "50" they think two twenties and a ten so just seeing "50" kinda confuses them.

Anyone who knows French knows what I'm talking about.

Re:Foreigners?

[leucadiadude]

You forgot the third view:

Americans posting to an American website about American currency not giving a rip about what individuals like youself (who are on hair trigger alert to be offended by anything said or done by any American) think.

Re:Foreigners?

[leucadiadude]

Duh.

It was founded by Americans. It has an American flavor and slant.

You want a Slashdot more to your local cultural flavor? Start one.

Re:Foreigners?

[martyn s]

Actually, I don't know what you're talking about, and I'm familiar with french numbers. The only thing I can think of is that 70 is called "sixty-ten" and 71 is "sixty-eleven" etc. And 80 is "four-twenties" and 90 is "four-twenties-ten", but for numbers 50 and below, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Re:Foreigners?

[big_hairy_mama]

I can't tell you how many times I went to pull out a $1 and got a $10, only to realize at the last minute before the cashier took it. Once I even almost gave a $50 instead of a $5. It *is* a problem, even to us Americans. Plus, having colorized bills would make organizing my wallet easier.

Re:Foreigners?

[Yunzil]

if i hand you a stack of bills can you tell me how much it's worth? not a chance.

with other countries you have an idea by the number of each colour. its a convience thing.

Er, if it's in a stack, how do you check the color? Or yeah, by looking at each one. I can do that just as easily with money that's all the same.

personally I hate american money, it does look all the same to me.

Personally, I think you're blind.

Re:Foreigners?

[doooras]

i agree with everything you just said, but i think it would be funny if we did print new colored and sized money, except have it exactly the opposite of european money. i bet that would fuck them up even more, and they wouldn't bitch so much about the stuff we have now.

Re:Foreigners?

[Stephan Schulz]

I will fight any attempt to make different denominations be different sizes with my very last dying breath. That is the MOST annoying feature of other currency, and it would ruin all that is good about our currency. A nice standard size, easy automated handling in tellers and vending machines, easy handling in my wallet, easy to fan out and deal with. Someone will institude multi-sized bills over my dead body. I cannot imagine anything more annoying or pointless.

This is (at least) the second time somebody mentioned "fanning the money out". I have no idea what the purpose of this should be, but I suspect that this is only necessary because the US bills look and feel all the same.

I've traveled all over Europe, and I've been in the US about 10 times by now. I never understood the common warning against "counting your money in public places" -- while I see that this may draw pickpockets or worse, I never ever have the desire to count my money at all. A quick look into the wallet is fully sufficient to see approximately were I am in Europe - both with German Marks and now with Euros. Then I went to the US. Yes, I can read the numbers, but you still need to go through all your bills to get an idea of how much money you have in your wallet.

As to teller machines and vending machines: They work fine with different sized bills. I don't know if it's any harder to make a vending machine for Euros than for Dollars, but both are possible.

Re:Foreigners?

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

Er, if it's in a stack, how do you check the color? Or yeah, by looking at each one. I can do that just as easily with money that's all the same.

Yes, but in reality. Notes aren't usaly stacked exactly on top of each other, with no gaps in between. All you need is 1mm of the note showing to tell you exactly what it is.

Even so. It's still just plain easier to flick though notes and recognize colours that it is to read numbers (not just because numbers are symbols--more complex than recognizing a colour, but because they are only in certain places on the note).

Re:Foreigners?

[Eil]

Please enlighten us, sir, on how you'd improve our money instead of merely bitching about it.

Re:Foreigners?

[commodoresloat]

personally I hate american money, it does look all the same to me. but then again I am canadian.

Personally, I hate Canadian food. But then again... oh, wait..... nevermind.

Re:Foreigners?

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

On US dollars, the numbers on an all the corners. All the bill's are the same size, too, so just square the stack of bills, and riffle the corner.

Try THAT with 4 different sized bills!!

But you still have to take them out of you wallet at least partly to riffle though them. I can't do that in my wallet anyway.

Trouble?

[geekd]

Apparently, with both size and color the same, foreigners have a hard time differenciating between the bills.

One would think the big number in each corner would be a pretty big giveaway as to the bill's value.

:-)

I'm all for color on our bills. Our money is pretty boring compared to "exciting" foreign money.

But then, when it come to money, I'll all for boring. When "exciting" and "money" are used in the same sentence, it usually means I'm losing my ass.

Re:Trouble?

[Slycee]

It seems to me that the main reason for this is to deter counterfeiting, not saving foreigners from needing to squint to buy a pack of chewing gum.

Re:Trouble?

[Cally]

Oddly enough, the headline on this article is strangely apt.

Re:Trouble?

[Jason Earl]

I lived in Peru for a couple of years, and the folks down there knew more about U.S. dollars than anyone I have ever seen. It probably stemmed from the fact that the first thing they did after cashing their paychecks was to change their money into dollars so that it would still be worth something the next day. Inflation is a harsh mistress.

There is no way that I am going to believe that idiotic "foreigners" had anything to do with the switch.

Re:Trouble?

[ChaosDiscordSimple]

Our money is pretty boring compared to "exciting" foreign money.

That's a feature, darnit! Even with our new, more open, cleaner looking bills, US greenbacks are still the most evil looking money in the world. Black and green with dense and archaic patterns. Thanks to the slightly colored cloth stock they print on, our money starts out looking slightly grimy (crisp, but grimy). Can you picture a suitcase of Euros looking as menacing as a suitcase of US dollars? US bills demand respect. Our money reminds viewers that it is the root of all evil.

Re:Trouble?

[leucadiadude]

Who cares?

This story was about changes to U.S. currency. Not Japanese.

Re:Trouble?

[scott1853]

Don't forget the eye in the pyramid reminding us that they're watching us!

Re:Trouble?

[Fat Casper]

Our money is pretty boring compared to "exciting" foreign money.

I'm with you- money is supposed to be boring. Nothing beats stable currency. Maybe the problem is that a lot of foreigners simply cannot accept prices that don't have a ton of zeroes tacked on? If we go to color coding in order to fit in, we might only be making the problem worse. Now I just need to land a job at a duty-free store, heh heh heh.

Re:Trouble?

[Storm Damage]

Umm, exactly what's difficult about that? Every japanese bill has it's yen value legibly printed in arabic numerals on the upper corners of the bill's face.

Here's photos of the 1000, 5000 and 10,000 yen bills, and here's photos and information about the 2000 yen bill.

or HIBT?

Re:Trouble?

[Rogerborg]

• One would think the big number in each corner would be a pretty big giveaway

A couple of things to bear in mind:

• If you make the bills different sizes, people with serious visual impairment can still work out how much cash they're handing over.
• If you don't have serious visual disablement, you probably know someone who does. Or you might have it tomorrow, or next week, or next year.

Re:Trouble?

[bastion_xx]

It would be nice if the different denominations all looked entirely different

Red hearts! Green clovers! Blue diamonds!!!

Re:Trouble?

[Yunzil]

Taking a quick peek in your wallet to see roughly how much cash you have is not so quick when:

a) all notes are the same size
b) all notes are the same colour


Myself: $14
Total time: ~1 sec.

Get a pair of glasses. ;)

US money is often referred to as monopoly money because of its uniformity - only, even monopoly money recognizes the value of colour coding.

No, it didn't start looking like Monopoly money until they put those stupid huge portraits on.

Re:Trouble?

[elmegil]

Find someplace to shop that isn't full of morons. I rarely if ever have this happen.

Re:Trouble?

[micromoog]

How often do you hand a $20 to a cashier and get change for a $5 or a $10 until you complain?

Never. And I use $20 bills pretty much every day.

Re:Trouble?

[micromoog]

I'll give you three Japaneese bills, and you tell me what values they are based on the numbers.

um, OK . . . I'll do it based on the BIG FUCKING NUMBERS in the corners.

Man, you're stupid.

Re:Trouble?

[ocie]

Hear hear. I think they are barking up the wrong tree. The bigger problem I'd see for foreigners is that none of our coins have a value in arabic numerals. Some don't even spell out the value.

Re:Trouble?

[mosch]

yes, avoid department stores that hire idiots such as:

• bloomingdale's
• the bon marche
• burdine's
• dillard's
• famous-barr
• filene's
• foley's
• goldsmith's
• harrod's
• hecht's
• jc penney
• the jones store
• kaufmann's
• lazarus
• lord & taylor
• l.s. ayres
• macy's
• mark's & spencer
• meier & frank
• neimann marcus
• nordstrom's
• robinson's-may
• rich's
• saks fifth avenue
• strawbridge's

oh wait, i forgot, smart people generally don't aspire to working in retail, thus making every store chock full o retards.

Re:Trouble?

[mosch]

no problem, i'll read the clearly printed numerals that are located somewhere on the notes. same as i'd do in thailand, taiwan, china, israel, vietnam, phillipines, russia, uganda, saudi arabia, india, sri lanka, afghanistan, iran, iraq.... actually i don't know of any country that doesn't print arabic numerals on their paper money.

coins on the other hand are a whole different story...

Re:Trouble?

[jedidiah]

One has to wonder if the saying "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery" originated with the Japenese... '-)

Re:Trouble?

[jedidiah]

I have no confidence in attempts to idiot-proof our currency. There will always be a "better idiot". This is especially true for vocations that typically pay minimum wage.

Blinking holographic banners won't prevent clerks giving you change for the wrong denomination.

Re:Trouble?

[Eil]

Our money is pretty boring compared to "exciting" foreign money.

That is until these new-fangled bill come out and all the non-Americans remark about how frilly and showy-off our currency is. Those pompous American are at it again, this time with their dollar bills!

Re:Trouble?

[Mandelbrute]

Our money is pretty boring

That's a feature, darnit!

Yes, it makes it nice and easy to copy. A couple of years ago there was an estimate printed in New Scientist that around one fifth of the US dollars floating around Europe were not printed at the US mint. That's a serious amount of cash, there's almost as much money in US dollars outside of the USA than inside (hence the currency fluctuations since last year).

US bills demand respect

Yes, they look just like the money out of monopoly only all the same colour and printed on toilet paper! They are respected for the value they represent, not for what they look like. There are certainly advantages to polymer money, like durability, being able to go for a swim with a wallet full of cash and the unexpected one of being able to scratch off the hologram of your ruler with a coin.

Re:Trouble?

[ColaMan]

Maybe the problem is that a lot of foreigners simply cannot accept prices that don't have a ton of zeroes tacked on?

I live in australia and recently went to indonesia on business.
Presently , you get around 5,000 rupiah for an australian dollar... which makes it more than a little mind-bending :

They have 100,000 rupiah notes, and it seems everyone has a handful of them!

Calculators have 13 digit displays!

I read the paper and they're casually mentioning 40 billion rupiah figures, and they're only talking about a block of flats!

Thing is , they still use the lower end of the scale. Petrol costs around 800 rupiah per litre,
a few vege's will cost 500 etc. It really freaked out our accountant - he kept saying "What!? 20,000 for pizza!? Let's get something else!" I'd have to remind him that it was only four bucks ....

Re:Trouble?

[commodoresloat]

around one fifth of the US dollars floating around Europe were not printed at the US mint.

Interestingly though a good portion of real US currency is out of circulation (being horded somewhere, under a mattress, or in a hardened bunker on a desert islant). So perhaps this evens out in some way...

Re:Trouble?

[Corgha]

There are certainly advantages to polymer money, like durability, being able to go for a swim with a wallet full of cash

It's not as if bills are printed on "normal" paper.

I haven't done so recently, but when I was younger, I went swimming with U.S. currency in my pocket (later in a wallet in my pocket) all the time. That cash got seriously drenched for hours at a time, and the bills still separated cleanly and did not fall apart when I went to go buy a hot dog and a Coke. Every now and then I send a bill through the wash, and it comes out OK (and a bit cleaner, usually -- reminds me of that scene in "Bound").

Obviously, the bills probably get slightly weaker, and they probably would start to rot if left wet for too long, but for those of us who don't use underwater ATMs, it's never been an issue.

You've got to be kidding me

[Clue4All]

"International visitors complain 'We can't tell your denominations apart,'" said the Bureau of Engraving and Printing which will release new versions of the $20, $50 and $100 bills next year.

What you mean besides having different pictures and a HUGE FUCKING NUMBER on them? This just seems silly to me.

Re:You've got to be kidding me

[tomhudson]

Well, it's harder at night, in a club, when you've had a few too many ...

Re:You've got to be kidding me

[Saige]

Remember, most people from other countries can tell the denominations of bills apart by just a quick glance at their color.

Imagine growing up, always having color as an identifying mark for currency. Suddenly, you're somewhere else, you pull out your money, and it's all the same color! Sure, they can look at it, but it's more effort than they're used to. Sure, not that much effort overall, but when you're used to one thing, and you have to do a little more, that can really throw you off.

Go try dialing a rotary phone, and see if you don't find it annoying just because of the time difference.

Re:You've got to be kidding me

[SteelX]

So we should all switch to rotary phones because some tourists might use them in the homeland? Screw that

I think the difference here is that it's not just "some tourists" who're affected by this. AFAIK almost all countries in the world have different colored currency notes.

Re:You've got to be kidding me

[Wraithlyn]

What is with all the posts saying "The number is good enough"? Just sounds like stubborn anti-change sentiment to me. Should all traffic signs and signals be the same colour, because the wording and/or shapes should be good enough? Colour association is an important visual cue, it WILL make the bills easier to differentiate. Period.

Re:You've got to be kidding me

[Just Some Guy]

If I can tell at a glance how much money I'm carrying, then so can the guy next to me. I really don't want to be using a vending machine in a bad part of town and have some thug see that I have some blue (one dollar), green (five dollar), and neon yellow with orange trim (100 dollar) bills. I'd prefer that said thug only see the $1 bill on the top of the stack and leave me alone.

Re:You've got to be kidding me

[Wraithlyn]

Boy is your post confused. First of all, nobody said anything about 'changing for the sake of change'. I said change because it will aid in differentiating them, and that is a very useful property for pieces of paper with radically different valuations, don't you think?

Second, what does your Chinese/English example have to do with 'changing for the sake of change'? Here you're talking about changing to conform with the majority, which is something else entirely.

Re:You've got to be kidding me

[rsidd]

Point. New York is the only city I've seen where the pedestrian signs say "Don't walk" in a whitish yellow or "Walk" in a yellowish white. If that's good enough for Americans, greenbacks are good enough too...

Re:You've got to be kidding me

[Carbonite]

Should all traffic signs and signals be the same colour, because the wording and/or shapes should be good enough?

Well, all speed limit signs are the same shape and color because they all serve the same purpose. All bills are the same shape and color because they are designed to show their value.

Re:You've got to be kidding me

[krogoth]

Yeah, now you try that on some foreign currency.

Re:You've got to be kidding me

[Skidge]

Different sizes/colors help immensely when handling US coins. Can you imagine what a PitA it would be if all of our coins were the same size, shape and color, with just the values printed on them?

Differentiating the paper bills will help in the same way.

Re:You've got to be kidding me

[SimplyCosmic]

Wraithlyn said:

"Just sounds like stubborn anti-change sentiment to me."

Wait ... so what you're saying is that the population of a country is bad for being "anti-change", when the reason given for the change is to stop inconvieniencing a smaller number of tourists who are complaining about the change from the color system of currency of their home country?

Should we also adopt the currency systems (euros, marks, etc) because of the inconvienience to foreign visitors?

Re:You've got to be kidding me

[scrytch]

Erm ... maybe you shouldn't be pulling out a thick wad of cash in a bad part of town, no matter what the denominations? Just a suggestion...

Re:You've got to be kidding me

[Wraithlyn]

I agree. I don't think the "all other countries do it" in itself is a compelling reason whatsoever.

I just think multi colour money is helpful. Which is why all the other countries have adopted it. They're a proof-of-concept indicator, not a reason.

Re:You've got to be kidding me

[Glytch]

I wish that US coins had the denominations printed on them. Here in Canada the coins are the same size for the same US denominations, but for non-North Americans it's immensely confusing.

Re:You've got to be kidding me

[Wraithlyn]

I never breathed a word about tourists. Colour coding would be helpful to everyone.

About goddamn time

[James_G]

I've lived in the US for 3 years now, and I'm still incredulous as to how backward the US paper currency is compared to other countries. The anti-counterfeit measures are basically non-existant, and the notes all look absolutely identical. Digging through your wallet it's impossible to know if something is a 5 or a 10 just by glancing at it, so to see how much cash you have is a long winded counting process.

In the UK, paper notes all have a brightly coloured square/triangle/circle etc. which help people who are partially sighted identify them. They're also slightly different sizes to help completely blind people identify the differences.

Apparently, up until now people in the US are patriotic to the extreme and can't stand to see their precious 'greenbacks' changed.. so it's about time this happened.. Let's hope they don't encounter too much resistance eh?

Re:About goddamn time

[elmegil]

it's impossible to know if something is a 5 or a 10 just by glancing at it, so to see how much cash you have is a long winded counting process.

Yah, 'cos you know colors add in your head so much easier than numbers.

Re:About goddamn time

[doooras]

i've never had any trouble knowing how much money i have in my wallet, even without playstation symbols on it.

Re:About goddamn time

[leucadiadude]

"The anti-counterfeit measures are basically non-existant"

Wrong.

Just because you personally can't see or detect the methods of protection, doesn't mean they aren't there. It's actually EXTREMELY hard to copy $10 and up denonmination bills reliably.

Re:About goddamn time

[cr@ckwhore]

"The anti-counterfeit measures are basically non-existant"...

... except for the watermarks, microprint, iridescent markings, micro engraved printing process, blue and red fibers embedded in the linen paper, and the micro-thin plastic strip embedded in each bill.

Re:About goddamn time

[Saige]

Apparently, up until now people in the US are patriotic to the extreme and can't stand to see their precious 'greenbacks' changed.. so it's about time this happened.. Let's hope they don't encounter too much resistance eh?

They are going to encounter a ton of resitance from US citizens. Heck, just read the messages in this disussion so far, and you'll see that even geeks, the ones you think would be more interested in new things and change, are freaking out, and attacking the idea even though there's not a single valid complaint that I've seen so far.

It's all been "I don't want a rainbow in my wallet" or accusing non-Americans of being unable to read numbers (though they don't realize most non-Americans don't read the numbers on their currency because they use different colors, so they're not used to it).

I suspect the public outcry against this will be huge, and people might even try and find some way to work 9/11 and "not surrendering to terrorists" into this.

It's no wonder that Europe and Japan create fancy new technology and implement it left and right (maglev trains, alternative fuel cars, etc), while America sticks to inventing weapons of war, new food additives, and new ways to patent/copyright information so that nobody can use it - cause new technology requires new ideas and change, and if even the geeks can't accept the color of their money changing, imagine something that could actually be disruptive.

Re:About goddamn time

[jmv]

Just because you personally can't see or detect the methods of protection, doesn't mean they aren't there.

What's the use of having a great copy-protection method when people can't tell the difference just by looking at it. In many places, new bills have a hologram printed on them, so you can see easily if it's been copied (with a color copier or something simple). With US bills, I doubt you can tell quite easily... and how many people/stores check all bills very carefully?

Re:About goddamn time

[southpolesammy]

This is probably a troll, but what the heck...

The anti-counterfeit measures are basically non-existant

Not true. Go to the Secret Service's webpage based on the measures they've taken. Just because you can't see them, doesn't mean they're not there.

it's impossible to know if something is a 5 or a 10 just by glancing at it

You mean, like looking at the big number in each corner of the paper? Different question: Are you telling me that you need a color-based mnemonic to remember a numeric-based mnemonic as to the representation of the value of the currency? IOW, Red=5 is easier to remember than 5=5?

Re:About goddamn time

[Jobe_br]

Absolutely. First you'll need the ink that is detectable by UV light, you'll need something that can ultra-finely print for the text that goes around the image (most printers don't have that kind of resolution), then there's the strip through the bill (w/o which the bill is useless - if you want to try, just take it out and take it to a bank), the watermarked image you can see if you hold it up to the light (just like all european currency), then there's something special about the weaving on some portions of the pictures that's apparently very difficult to duplicate, the paper has strands of different materials infused in it (so it doesn't look like homogenous paper), even matching the (one) color of green on the bills is apparently very difficult.

Plenty of security protections there ... what did you think, that the worlds most used currency *wouldn't* have some top-of-the-line security protections?

Re:About goddamn time

[EvlG]

...what did you think, that the worlds most used currency *wouldn't* have some top-of-the-line security protections?

Well naturally he would think that. After all, the world's most used operating system doesn't have "top-of-the-line security protections"...

Re:About goddamn time

[krogoth]

You're right, it is a troll. When you read 5, you know what it means - but first you have to take the time to find it on the bill, read it, and understand that. With a color, you just need to see the bill. And besides, you probably have good eyesight, at least compared to some people.

Re:About goddamn time

[PK_ERTW]

"The anti-counterfeit measures are basically non-existant"...

... except for the watermarks, microprint, iridescent markings, micro engraved printing process, blue and red fibers embedded in the linen paper, and the micro-thin plastic strip embedded in each bill.

I am sure that he was referring to "in comparison to other countries." Yes you may have some anti-counterfit measures, but American money is still very simple to copy, much simpler than others around the world.

That and the anticounterfit measures have to be readily and easily visible to the average cashier, or else they are pretty much useless.

PK

Re:About goddamn time

[Brian_Ellenberger]

>It's no wonder that Europe and Japan create >fancy new technology and implement it left and >right (maglev trains, alternative fuel cars, >etc), while America sticks to inventing weapons >of war, new food additives, and new ways to >patent/copyright information so that nobody can

Yea, I love those awesome flying cars they have in Japan that run on H2O and cause zero polution!

Seriously dude, what the heck are you talking about? Do you actually think the rest of the world is lightyears ahead of us in technology? I mean, if there were all these magical things Japan and Europe invented don't you think they would be making a killing selling them to us? Come on.

There are societal/economical reasons why things like maglev trains don't work as well here. Things like wanting the freedom of your own house and wanting to drive where you want to when you want to.

As for those evil Americans "inventing weapons of war", well guess what---your using one of those "weapons" right now. The Internet started as DARPANET--A Defense Department network designed to keep communication going during nuclear attack.

Brian Ellenberger

Re:About goddamn time

[markov_chain]

I'm all for new interesting things and change if it will help us. However, I just don't see how coloring the money helps-- as the press release states, it seems that $45 million in counterfeit money entered circulation in 2001. How much did the US companies spend on retrofitting their vending machines? According to this article pointed out by another reader, $350 million! It doesn't seem like a good idea to me...

Re:About goddamn time

[cicadia]

Yah, 'cos you know colors add in your head so much easier than numbers.

Sure, why not? They're both just arbitrary symbols.

If I look in my wallet, and I've got two blues, a red and a green, then I know I've got $80. I don't do any algebraic addition, but then, neither do you when you see two $5's, a $20 and a $50.

Re:About goddamn time

[Malc]

> > it's impossible to know if something is a 5 or a
> > 10 just by glancing at it
> >
>
> You mean, like looking at the big number in each
> corner of the paper? Different question: Are you
> telling me that you need a color-based mnemonic to
> remember a numeric-based mnemonic as to the
> representation of the value of the currency? IOW,
> Red=5 is easier to remember than 5=5?

Where I live, I don't even need to look at the numbers. The notes are different sizes and different colours. I can get a rough feel for what's in my wallet with just the briefest of glances. (If I were blind, I could probably do the same very quickly by touch). I lived in the US for 3 years, and I can tell you that it's not possible to do this there. You have to go through every bill and look at the number. That might not seem like a big deal, but it's very frustrating and irritating when you've never had to do that before.

Re:About goddamn time

[southpolesammy]

OK, I'm going to pick nits here, but...

What if you're colorblind?

Re:About goddamn time

[Nagash]

You mean, like looking at the big number in each corner of the paper? Different question: Are you telling me that you need a color-based mnemonic to remember a numeric-based mnemonic as to the representation of the value of the currency? IOW, Red=5 is easier to remember than 5=5?

It sounds like you don't think the number will be printed on the bill in addition to the colour.

As a Canadian, I am used to coloured money (with the number) and while I am currently at Caltech for a month, I can tell you that looking in my wallet to see American money all the time is a rather different experience. For starters, I have to check the bills more meticulously to see how much I have. With Canadian money, I can just glance at my wallet and have a pretty good idea. ("Oh - I have a bunch of 5s" or "Good - I got a 20 in there")

While anecdotal (thus, not proof of anything), I found it interesting that I've never had a problem with lack of recognition of bills in Canada but when I was at the Tampa airport last year, I got a snack and the clerk gave me a 20 instead of a 10 for change. Neither one of us noticed right away. This was one of my only purchases while there.

Woz

Re:About goddamn time

[Yunzil]

Here in the UK, you can pretty much tell if a note is genuine by running your fingers across the embossed writing, checking the foil strip, and then the watermarks.

You ARE aware that US money has a strip embedded in the paper, has watermarks, and is printed on special paper that has a certain, well, money-like texture? Right?

Re:About goddamn time

[doooras]

well, i guess that means they work just fine. if the pen leaves a black mark, don't take the damned bill. if people don't like it, i guess they shouldn't dip their money in pizza flour.

Re:About goddamn time

[ryanvm]

Not true. Go to the Secret Service's webpage based on the measures they've taken. Just because you can't see them, doesn't mean they're not there.

How the hell are you supposed to know if someone's passing you counterfeit bills if the countermeasures are hidden to the naked eye? Maybe this has something to do with the fact that U.S. currency is the most successfully counterfeited money in the world.

Re:About goddamn time

[Dolly_Llama]

Do you actually think the rest of the world is lightyears ahead of us in technology? I mean, if there were all these magical things Japan and Europe invented don't you think they would be making a killing selling them to us? Come on.

In other news, the US trade deficit is now at $35 billion. Next question?

Re:About goddamn time

[SteelX]

I think the difference is that the vending machine cost of $350 million is a one-time cost, while $45 million (or more) of counterfeiting happens every year.

Re:About goddamn time

[Moridineas]

It's no wonder that Europe and Japan create fancy new technology and implement it left and right (maglev trains, alternative fuel cars, etc), while America sticks to inventing weapons of war, new food additives, and new ways to patent/copyright information so that nobody can use it - cause new technology requires new ideas and change, and if even the geeks can't accept the color of their money changing, imagine something that could actually be disruptive.

This is such bullshit. Why is it so chic to be anti-American right now? I would bother refuting your brainless argument if it wasn't so clearly a typical of present day anti-american sentiment.

If you want to know who makes tech people need, just look at import/export numbers--compare your european utopia of choice to the american hellhole, and be pleasantly surprised.

Re:About goddamn time

[James_G]

Well, like I said.. on UK money they have large coloured shapes, so if you're colour blind, you can tell by looking at the shape alone (Square, circle, triangle, etc). The colour is contrasted enough that it is easy for even a colour blind person to tell the shape at a glance.

Here's an image I found on Google of a 20 ukp note, you can just see the purple square at the bottom

On the other hand, if my understanding of colour blindness is correct, colour-blind people tend to have a hard time differentiating between certain colours rather than not being able to see them at all (Red and green is fairly typical, if I remember correctly). I suspect the colours on the banknotes are also chose to minimize the similarities in this situation..

Re:About goddamn time

[Mandelbrute]

"The anti-counterfeit measures are basically non-existant"...

... except for the watermarks ...

The world has moved on. It isn't the 1930s anymore, those tricks are failing on a regular basis and having enormous values on bills means that people have found it worth it to buy the stuff they need to do good reproductions.

Perhaps applying 1980s or above technologies won't work either due to the huge value of some bills. You guys have $500 bills don't you? If a crim has to spend half that to make every bill it is certainly worth their while. Perhaps phasing out the big bills and pushing more electronic funds transfer may help (although security is sometimes pretty bad there).

Re:About goddamn time

[Mandelbrute]

I mean, if there were all these magical things Japan and Europe invented don't you think they would be making a killing selling them to us?

Um, they have - look at all the Toyotas and Mercs for a start, then look at high tech industries led by Du Pont, Siemens, Fujitsu, Sony etc. Then take a look at American plumbing! That said, conservatism is rife everywhere and it takes a while for good ideas to take hold, and I don't know what this has to do with US cash anyway. Just fix the stuff so that it can't be copied so easily.

Re:About goddamn time

[quantaman]

Seriously dude, what the heck are you talking about? Do you actually think the rest of the world is lightyears ahead of us in technology? I mean, if there were all these magical things Japan and Europe invented don't you think they would be making a killing selling them to us? Come on.

Uhhh... You mean like the Honda Insight? Or maybe a playstation, or nintendo?


There are societal/economical reasons why things like maglev trains don't work as well here. Things like wanting the freedom of your own house and wanting to drive where you want to when you want to.
So if you take the train you don't own your own house and it's faster to drive during rushhour then take a train that quickly goes to your destination or drive a small very fuel-efficient smart car? Lightyears ahead in technology? Not really. Infastructure? Yes. The fact is that the extreme wealth of the American consumer has lead to extreme excess. What possible use to 90% of the people who buy SUVs have for them? Have you seen a commercial for the Swiffer? One of the premier messages in the advertisement is the fact that you get to throw away things! It's is just like in the 19th century when smoke billowing out from factories was equated with progress. How far ahead some aspects of the technology in Europe is ahead is debatable but the difference is that it is being utilized. True this is due largely to the dense population of Europe but the fact remains that it leads to a difference in mindset. It's american nationalism and tastes that keeps these technologies out of the US. How many high speed trains are there in the US, I'm not sure because I'm in Canada but I'm sure that a network of high speed trains connecting major cities would be very advantageous to buisness (comparable to aircraft in speed and much more reliable and convenient).

Re:About goddamn time

[gerardrj]

As for those evil Americans "inventing weapons of war", well guess what---your using one of those "weapons" right now. The Internet started as DARPANET--A Defense Department network designed to keep communication going during nuclear attack.

A more appropriate example is the Interstate Highway System. It was designed to provide the military a redundant and reliable mechanism for moving large numbers of ground vehicles in case of invasion. Yes, it was always meant for civilian use, but it was concieved as a military project.

It's about time

[L. VeGas]

Now I can use every color in my ink cartridge.

Yeah, we think highly of foreigners here.

[dfenstrate]

"foreigners have a hard time differenciating between the bills"

does the phonecian numbering system still present a problem for some corners of the earth? I wasn't aware that the roman or summerian numerals where still in use.

Or is the next 'new math' going to be based on adding colors, instead of numbers? Yeah, you gave me two blues ($5) and a yellow ($10), so thats a blue-green ($20.)

Right. There are better reasons that this.

Re:Yeah, we think highly of foreigners here.

[benwb]

US currency does not use phoenecian numerals. While the place system of our numbering system borrows heavily from the phoenecians, the numerals themselves look quite different. Perhaps you were thinking of arabic numerals?
See Proposal for encoding the Phoenician script in ISO/IEC 10646 for a visual depiction of what phoenecian numerals look like.

Re:Yeah, we think highly of foreigners here.

[gmcraff]

In other monetary systems (and I'm thinking idly of the Italian currency before the Euro totally took over), the various denominations were also slightly different in size. It was easy to tell the difference between a 5000 lira note and a 50000 lira note by touch. Color was also varied, of course.

Thinking outside of being nice to those from out-of-town, I have a blind friend who has to have a trusted acquantance sort out her money visually, then order the money neatly into groups of 1s, 5s, 10s, 20s, etc, and then remember exactly how many of each bill she has so she can finger-count through the list to find the right bill. Any change that she receives that includes bills get shoved into a corner of her purse until she can have someone she trusts sort it out again.

In terms of being nice to our own citizens, maybe we could just print the denomination in Braille right under the SecTreas's signature. Being nice to fully sighted foreigners seems a much weaker argument than doing something of minimal cost to help out the blind.

Re:Yeah, we think highly of foreigners here.

[rcw-home]

Or is the next 'new math' going to be based on adding colors, instead of numbers? Yeah, you gave me two blues ($5) and a yellow ($10), so thats a blue-green ($20.)

That would lead to the most valuable denominations having the most subtle color variations. The new colors will be based on a proven scheme most Americans are familiar with:

$1 white
5 pink
10 yellow
20 green
50 blue
100 gold
500 bronze

Re:Yeah, we think highly of foreigners here.

[Dephex Twin]

In other monetary systems (and I'm thinking idly of the Italian currency before the Euro totally took over), the various denominations were also slightly different in size.

This is actually true of just about everywhere in Europe, pre- and post-Euro.

mark

Re:Yeah, we think highly of foreigners here.

[Cryptnotic]

Great idea, except there is no such thing as a U.S. $500 bill.

Re:Yeah, we think highly of foreigners here.

[scrytch]

Arabic numbers?! AYY-rab-ick numbers? Damn, I better write my congressman about this awful plot! They're in our numbers now!

Re:Yeah, we think highly of foreigners here.

[scrytch]

... then I remembered what my sig was after posting that, so at least *I* got a laugh out of it ...

Re:Yeah, we think highly of foreigners here.

[blibbleblobble]

"does the phonecian numbering system still present a problem for some corners of the earth?"

Well, actually the colours on a UK note mean that you can tell most fakes from several metres away just by recognising the shade of colour.

We also have different sized notes (so does the Euro) which means you can tell 'be feel' what's in your wallet without having to look carefully at the corner to read a number.

I believe that different notes are also made from different types of paper here, again letting you tell what a note is before it's left your pocket. This could just be an illusion though, as smaller notes feel more fragile because they've been handled more.

Re:Yeah, we think highly of foreigners here.

[micromoog]

So did you miss the joke, or are you just an annoying-ass bee-otch?

Re:Yeah, we think highly of foreigners here.

[guttentag]

foreigners have a hard time differenciating between the bills

Connect the dots:

• U.S. currency changed to be "foreigner-friendly"
• terrorists encouraged to use cash (previously they had to survive a grueling 6-week course on distinguishing singles from twenties)
• FBI loses what little ability it has to track suspected terrorists' activities through their bank accounts ("Hmm... $500 spent at fertilizer shop, $250 spent at Avis, $250 spent at driving school, Six one-way tickets from Karachi to Newark, $300 spent at enlargeyourpenis.com... this guy could be up to something")
• No pesky whistle-blowers proclaiming "the FBI had all the information it needed to thwart terrorist attacks but certain unnamed people further up the food chain ordered us to stand down for reasons unknown"

Re:Yeah, we think highly of foreigners here.

[morcheeba]

or just use the other standard color code...

$1 brown-black-gold
5 green-black-gold
10 brown-black-black
20 red-black-black
50 green-black-black
100 brown-black-brown
500 green-black-brown

nah, scratch that. I like yours better.

Hmmm

[quantaman]

The Treasury and Federal Reserve now changes the design of the currency every seven to 10 years to try to deter counterfeiters.

I would think that a number of different designs circulating for a single denomination of currency would infact make it easier to get away with counterfeiting. People would be less familiar with the design of the bill and be more likely to discount inconsistencies in the design by the fact that it is a different circulation.

Differentlly Shaped Money

[Chris Y Taylor]

Lets forget these paper bills altogether. If we want to make our money more interesting and easier to distinguish, we should just start using giant round rocks with holes in the middle.

doh

[theEdgeSMAK]

Now strippers can tell what I'm throwing on the table at a glance.

Re:doh

[Cryptnotic]

Nothing American is allowed to be called "colored". We haven't allowed that since the civil rights movement of the 1950's.

Re:doh

[TrevorB]

I was actually at the strippers up here in Canada about a month ago. The Strippers were taking $5 (blue) $10 (maroon) and $20 (green) Canadian dollar bills from the crowd. Canada has no paper denominations less than $5.

A couple of Americans, oblivious of the US/CA exchange rate (about 1.5 to 1), were there in the front row with American $1 bills on the stage. FOUR (4) sucsessive strippers totally ignored their money until the fifth one took pity on them after a half hour.

Just goes to show you don't get much bang for a buck.

Re:doh

[micromoog]

A couple of Americans, oblivious of the US/CA exchange rate (about 1.5 to 1) . . .

Um, you mean 1 to 1.5. And those American 1s are gonna be worth more than your 5s at the rate things are going . . .

Re:doh

[Fjord]

IME, struppers in canada will take a "twoney", the two dollar coin. Usually you hold it in your mouth and they'll pick it up with their breasts.

They were probably ignoring the 1s because they A) aren't easy to exchange and B) the real money is in private dances, which someone with American cash wouldn't be able to buy anyway because of point A.

About time, too

[kafka93]

Although I'm English, I've lived in the USA for a few years, on and off, and *still* find the homogeneity of the bank notes to be irritating. One shouldn't have to check twice that one isn't handing over a twenty instead of a dollar bill; besides which, it's just a *token* -- it doesn't *mean* anything, really. I say this simply because people get way too caught up on the perceived importance of things like this - the obvious example being those Europeans whose principal argument against the Euro has nothing to do with financial stability, but is instead concerned with such ridiculous notions as "tradition" and "national pride".

But I digress. Different American bank notes *are* difficult to distinguish between, and I'm not surprised that this is a concern when it comes to the ease of counterfeiting, either.

And if I'm rambling incoherently, it's because of staying up all night only to watch England lose. Bah.

Re:About time, too

[paradesign]

er... that got royaly fudged up.
HERE

DOH!

Re:About time, too

[Telastyn]

Hint for newbies:

All cashiers (in america and montreal at least) will give you your cash in size order (20-10-5-1, etc). Every man I know also keeps the cash in his wallet in similar order. The trick is not to identify numbers, but to identify differences, which of course is now ruined by having 3 different types of $20 bills in circulation.

Re:About time, too

[Yunzil]

One shouldn't have to check twice that one isn't handing over a twenty instead of a dollar bill;

I dunno, I think if you are handing over you hard-earned cash to some mope at the gas station, you ought to be take a DAMN good look at what you are handing over, and an even better look at whatever you get back.

Re:About time, too

[SerpentMage]

And who are these people in specific?

Seriously...

On the Canadian 10 is John A MacDonald
On the Swiss 10 is LeCorbusier
And the Euro 10 is Romanesque

Does any of this make sense to me, but yet what you say makes no sense to me whatsoever!

While I think the argument of tourists can be made one way or the other. I think the counterfiet argument is very valid.

Look closely at a new Swiss note. IT IS BASICALLY counterfeit proof. And the new Euro notes make counterfeiting VERY difficult. But the American notes are much easier to counterfeit.

Now before you say, no we have this marker and that market the reality is that much of this funny money does not actually go through the US. What happens is that people deal this funny money outside of the US and then convert that into a US bank account. That can then be used to spend US dollars anywhere. Why would the US be concerned? Because with so much money outside of the control of the US treasury it can have an amazing destabilizing effect. BTW terrorists, etc deal in US bank accounts usually and when they deal in funny money it is hard to track them.

This is why I think they want to change the money! Not at all for the benefit of the tourists. If I may be an American cynic, when has the US ever done anything to make it easier for tourists? Last I heard the current administration wanted to introduce that all outsiders coming to American was supposed to have fingerprints or something like that in the passport.

Help?

[thefirelane]

Apparently, with both size and color the same, foreigners have a hard time differenciating between the bills


The Federal Reserve announced they would also hire outside consultants from Parker Brothers.


---Lane

Re:Help?

[grytpype]

So now our money will have little choo-choos on them? Goody!

Re:Help?

[UnknownSoldier]

Now the US can have monopoly money like Canada ;-)

Security, not differentiation

[crow]

The changes are not there to help people differentiate between the different denominations, they're there to make it harder to counterfeit the bills. They've even said that they're keeping the same look and feel, so the changes won't be that dramatic. They're even trying to make them backwards-compatible with vending machines.

Re:Security, not differentiation

[jmv]

They're even trying to make them backwards-compatible with vending machines.

That's been solved differently in many countries: makeing coins for small amounts. In Canada, we've had $2 coins (approx $1.50 US) for years now. This makes sense for many reasons. First coins cost a bit more but last so much longer, so there's money being saved by printing less paper bills. Second, I prefer coins to having a pile of $1 paper bill in my wallet... Third, our vending machines don't need optic readers that screw up 50% of the time.

Re:Security, not differentiation

[crow]

The $1 bill vs. the $1 coin has nothing to do with counterfeiting. People don't bother with counterfeiting $1, $2, or $5 bills for the most part. The $20 is the most common target domestically, while the $100 is the most common target internationally.

The $1 bill still exists for two reasons. First, despite having had a $1 coin in circulation at the same time for a century or so (probably longer), shopkeepers prefer paper to coins, so while consumers may spend them, they don't get them in change. Second, the government has been hesitant to pull the $1 bill out of circulation, both for political reasons and due to fear that it may have a psychological inflationary impact.

Lots of twisty turny bills all the same

[gwernol]

Apparently, with both size and color the same, foreigners have a hard time differenciating between the bills.I still haven't gotten used to the larger pictures

As one of those "foreigners" who now lives in the US, I've often wondered how blind people operate here? All the bills are the same size. If you can't see what's written on the bill, how do you know if you've just offered a $1 bill or a $100 bill to the checkout clerk? How can you check your change?

Its not just the blind. Imagine being able to put your hand in your pocket and know how much cash you have just by feel. That's cool. No more standing on a dark street corner in the bad part of town counting through notes to know if you have enough for a beer/cab home/meal/whatever.

Virtually every other country has different sizes for notes of different amount. This seems like such an obvious and useful thing, I'm amazed that the US hasn't adopted it? Is this the ultimate Not Invented Here syndrome?

Re:Lots of twisty turny bills all the same

[elmegil]

I dunno, maybe I like all my cash to fit in a standard wallet?

Re:Lots of twisty turny bills all the same

[eweu]

No more standing on a dark street corner in the bad part of town counting through notes to know if you have enough for a beer/cab home/meal/whatever.

Wouldn't you get arrested if you were standing on a dark street in a bad part of town with your hand going wild in your pocket?

Re:Lots of twisty turny bills all the same

[L. VeGas]

It's cheaper for us to give the blind an income tax deduction because we assume they've been cheated by dishonest clerks than it is to make all that gay money.

Re:Lots of twisty turny bills all the same

[Chris Pimlott]

As one of those "foreigners" who now lives in the US, I've often wondered how blind people operate here? All the bills are the same size.

I'm not sure how you are supposed to identify bills when you first get them, but I did hear once how blind people tell them apart in their wallet. The trick is to fold each bill differently depending on denomination. One you leave flat, one you fold across the middle, one you fold lengthwize, one you fold into quarters, etc.

Re:Lots of twisty turny bills all the same

[truesaer]

Different sized bills sound like a pain in the ass to me....I carry my money loose in my pocket, so it would be annoying to have 4 different sizes. Right now, I can just line them all up, fold them in half, and in they go. Being able to know how much I've got just by feel doesn't really excite me too much.

Re:Lots of twisty turny bills all the same

[SirSlud]

You can do this (or should be able to) already - the paper money is printed on and reciepts are printed on feel *very* different. I can certainly tell whats what without looking ..

Re:Lots of twisty turny bills all the same

[Cardhore]

You're right, it is a pain in the ass. The different sizes make it hard to keep a stack of bills together, because the shorter ones keep falling out. It's also a pain to use different sized bills with wallets.

Re:Lots of twisty turny bills all the same

[tswinzig]

As one of those "foreigners" who now lives in the US, I've often wondered how blind people operate here? All the bills are the same size. If you can't see what's written on the bill, how do you know if you've just offered a $1 bill or a $100 bill to the checkout clerk? How can you check your change?

Blind people can use a money reader which speaks out the bills' values.

Its not just the blind. Imagine being able to put your hand in your pocket and know how much cash you have just by feel

Even if our money was all different sizes, I wouldn't be able to do that!

Virtually every other country has different sizes for notes of different amount. This seems like such an obvious and useful thing, I'm amazed that the US hasn't adopted it? Is this the ultimate Not Invented Here syndrome?

It's easier to straighten a pile of bills if they're all the same size. Things that hold money can be used with any bill denomination if they're all the same size. Things that take bills electronically can be less complex, if they're all the same size (just update the firmware to read the newer bills). Money fits in your wallet easier if they're all the same size. You can hide your bigger bills inside a stack of smaller bills if you're carrying money in your wallet (people nearby won't know you've got a couple $100's if they're packed inside), if they're all the same size.

Sorry, don't feel like giving that up for the meager benefits you claim.

Re:Lots of twisty turny bills all the same

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

We're only talking subtle differences here. You can still line them all up and fold them in half. I never heard of any problems before.

Re:About Time!

[kafka93]

Oh? You think that it's more important for a 'standard' to be maintained, then, even if it's a poor standard which leads to operational difficulties?

It's a bizarre notion, admittedly, that some people might find *quickly finding and using the correct money* to be more important than *carrying it in a neat bundle* or *fanning it*.

Jealousy!

[JudgeDredd]

You Americans have always been jealous of us Canadians and our beautiful money!

Re:Jealousy!

[bilbobuggins]

you ever tried to give an american Canadian money?
I think I can safely rest my case
;)

The wisdom of the Simpsons

[Torgo's Pizza]

From the recent episode where The Simpsons go to Brazil, where the kidnappers just receive the ransom money to free Homer.

Brazilian 1: "Look at all that pink and purple."
Brazilian 2: "Our money sure is gay."

against color

[cr@ckwhore]

I wish *they* would let us vote on it... I'd vote against adding color to US Currency.

Although the article states the current bills as a "boon to swindlers" because the bills are hard to distinguish, I disagree. I know the difference between a 1, 5, 10, etc. If you're too stupid to be able to distinguish your money, you deserve to have it stolen.

Regardless, I believe one of the attributes that makes US currency recognizable around the world is its simple color scheme. Its powerful, and looks like no other currency. When color is added to US currency, I fully expect the value of the dolor to drop because it will no longer have the bold, simple 2 color scheme. It will be just like every other paper currency on the world market.

I recently watched a documentary on the History Channel, which contained a segment about the federal reserve. A federal reserve employee expressed these very sentiments, even before the idea of adding color to US bills became a serious prospect.

Re:against color

[rnd()]

so your argument is:

colorful currency always has a low value on world markets

What about this little fact:

Live mid-market rates as of 2002.06.21 20:37:38 GMT.

1.00 GBP United Kingdom Pounds = 1.49675 USD United States Dollars

1 GBP = 1.49675 USD 1 USD = 0.668116 GBP

Re:against color

[jmv]

Regardless, I believe one of the attributes that makes US currency recognizable around the world is its simple color scheme. Its powerful, and looks like no other currency. When color is added to US currency, I fully expect the value of the dolor to drop because it will no longer have the bold, simple 2 color scheme. It will be just like every other paper currency on the world market.

To all countries in the world with inflation problems. Change your paper currency to a bold, simple 2 color scheme. That way everyone will be very attracted to your money that it will be worth as much as USD. Great idea!

Re:against color

[cr@ckwhore]

Yeah, and 1 US dollar = 9.92756 Mexican Pesos... whats your point?

Re:against color

[Dephex Twin]

Although the article states the current bills as a "boon to swindlers" because the bills are hard to distinguish, I disagree. I know the difference between a 1, 5, 10, etc. If you're too stupid to be able to distinguish your money, you deserve to have it stolen.

Yes, I suppose if you are too stupid to have good eyesight, you deserve to lose your money. Honestly, I am embarrassed by the number of Americans that have said "Look at the number you IDIOT." Why is it so hard to realize that coloring money makes it *easier*? Maybe you are a master at telling our money apart at a glance and have great vision. Good for you. How is this an argument against changing the color?

Do you honestly believe that entire countries that have trouble with our money are just too foolish to get it? Maybe we who live here have adapted with what we have. Is it some sign of weakness-- is adding color for "babies" or what?

When color is added to US currency, I fully expect the value of the dolor to drop because it will no longer have the bold, simple 2 color scheme.

Wow, now that's an extreme stance. I *really* doubt this. Other countries have money that looks like no other. Our money isn't famous and worth a lot because it is known for being green... it's the other way around.

If you take the stance that single color->easier counterfitting is baseless, how can you then make the claim that multi-color->downfall of the dollar? Which one is probably closer to reality?

mark

Re:against color

[rnd()]

No, the post I responded to said that having colorful currency meant that the currency would be lower in value on world markets than a non-colorful currency. Thus, I compared the colorful pound and the green and white dollar. I showed the in fact a colorful currency could be valued higher on world markets than a non-colorful one.

Australian 'bills'

[YakumoFuji]

the aussie non coin money i still like! plastic so you can leave it in your pocket when your jeans go in the wash. nice holograms (keeps the simple minded amused). doesnt tear as easy. nice and bright and colourful...

apparently we were the first country to use polymer notes...

two good links are here and here

and this shows all our polymer notes

-----

Re:Australian 'bills'

[SteelX]

Yes I agree.. plastic bills are the best. You don't have to worry about them tearing and all that. Singapore has plastic bills too!

Re:Australian 'bills'

[Lysander Luddite]

yeah I stayed there for 3 months last year. It took me a while to get used to the different sizes (made me wonder how I was supposed to keep it easily symetrical), but I liked it.

It was like spending monopoly money (and given th exchange rates felt like it).

I only wished they had used better designs rather than the boring "heads" they used. The Dutch, now there was a cool currency system!

Re:Australian 'bills'

[Lysander Luddite]

yeah. that's what i was trying. i don't use a wallet so i wrapped it around a creedit card or metropass.

Re:Australian 'bills'

[Mandelbrute]

I heard that their cash was so indestructable that the company making it went out of business.

Would a government be mad enough to give a private body full and absolute control of their currency?

It must be some NRA weirdness like all the "Road Warrior" sort of stuff that was supposed to have happened here when semi-automatics and handguns were restricted.

OT: England's going home

[sab39]

And if I'm rambling incoherently, it's because of staying up all night only to watch England lose. Bah.

Some humor to cheer you up

Confusing Currency!

[Vengie]

The problem with currency changes is that you have old currency in circulation. I went to Ray's Pizza in Lower Manhattan and the man behind the counter had recently come here and had not seen the "OLD" 20's -- and thought my bill (gotten from an ATM that morning) was faked. In any situation where new currency is issued, the gov. needs to assure a "waiting period" in which you can freely trade in old bills for new ones and get the old ones off the streets. The whole point of the "new" bills is to prevent fakes -- as of right now, you can still get an old fake, rough it up, and use it on the street. Plus, old greek men will think you're trying to cheat them, even when you arent. (No greeks were harmed in the writing of this post)

Re:Confusing Currency!

[pgpckt]

The United States has *never* made any old money issued illegal tender before. You can absolutly trade an old bill for a new bill at most any bank. Futher more, it is *completely* legal to pay for your bill using a 2 cent (yes, 2 cent) piece that was once the official issue of the United States. Wouldn't be wise since they are rare, and 10 years ago they were worth over $100 a piece, but it is legal. Old money is legal forever. Go USA!

Re:Confusing Currency!

[brad.hill]

With the amount of US cash stored around the world as hard currency savings (in the range of many many billions of dollars in just the former USSR alone) there would be incredible turmoil and devaluation of the dollar as folks rushed to spend it or convert it in a panic. That's the last thing anybody wants.

Re:Confusing Currency!

[martyn s]

Read the article, dummy :) To be exact, the article says the US has never "recalled" any of it's currency.

I like how the US Department of Engraving and Printing seems to have a sense of humor. Their domain name is "moneyfactory" and they sell sheets of uncut cash as a gift (albeit for more than the total of the bills is worth).

Re:Confusing Currency!

[arivanov]

The Alaska 51 state selebrationary emision of one dollar coins stopped being a legal tender a year or two ago.

That is at least one case.

So I guess you are wrong.

Yeah, right

[vanza]

Apparently, with both size and color the same, foreigners have a hard time differenciating between the bills.

Yeah, exactly the opposite of what happens with the british unit system you use. Those are really easy compared to understanding your money...

(For the humour impaired: This is supposed to be sarcastic.)

No!! No!!

[Reality Master 101]

I've always thought US monochrome money was by far the best looking money in the world. Other countries with all their "pretty" colors look like fake, monopoly money.

US money, on the other hand, looks like serious money , beefy and substantial. There's no mistaking that US currency is a serious document.

In fact, I thought the current redesign really took a lot of the "heft" out of the bills. Now color?

Who's running the federal reserve? Whoever it is needs to get a clue. Next the military will be painting our fighter jets with nice, pastel colors.

Re:No!! No!!

[alienmole]

Who's running the federal reserve? Whoever it is needs to get a clue. Next the military will be painting our fighter jets with nice, pastel colors.

I don't know if this is what you were thinking of, but in the discussion of the Joint Strike Fighter contract being awarded to Lockheed Martin, someone mentioned that the Stealth bombers were supposed to be painted sky-blue for camoflage reasons. Naturally that was nixed, so now they're a mean-looking and quite visible black.

Apparently US pilots would rather die (literally) than be mistaken for pansies...

When it comes to the money, though, I actually agree with you, and I grew up with colored different sized notes so I'm not simply biased by my upbringing. The only valid argument I've heard so far relates to the blind and partially sighted. Braille on the corners ought to take care of that, though.

Re:No!! No!!

[krlynch]

Naturally that was nixed, so now they're a mean-looking and quite visible black.

Um, they're black because they fly their missions at NIGHT.

Re:No!! No!!

[alienmole]

They fly some of their missions at night. At night, at altitude, a sky-blue color would not be significantly more visible. The reverse isn't true.

Re:No!! No!!

[coljac]

Why does other currency look like Monopoly money? Because you grew up in a country where real cash was monochrome, perhaps?

I really like Aussie money with the little transparent plastic window!

In any case, I don't have a lot to say in praise of cash as a concept, surely we have the technology to do away with it by now.

Re:No!! No!!

[Rhinobird]

Speaking as a former cashier, the feel of fake money is quite distinct from the real thing. Often just the feel of the bill is enough tip you off. But if you want...you could look at the color changing ink in corner and the water mark next to the dead president's head. A few strip bars I've been to have UV lamps next to the cash register for stamp checking purposes and all you need is to wave the bill under the lamp to be sure...

Re:No!! No!!

[Rhinobird]

That's an idea...I wouldn't be too of put by that. Maybe millimeter increments in widths for the various denominations for our blind citizens...I don't like the idea of having funky currency, but as long as it's way subtle, I can live with it.

Loonies, Twonies & what, "Finnies"

[crovira]

I'm a Canadian trapped here in the land of dull Greenbacks and I can attest that, while the confusion factor over the domination is not that high, damn, its a dull, ugly currency.

If only I had a lot more of it.

Well you've got to be kidding me

[SteelX]

It looks as though you've never travelled or lived outside the U.S. in your entire life.

Having different colors does make a huge difference for a lot of people. I've lived in four countries (including the U.S. now) and I definitely think that colored foreign currency notes are much easier to handle compared to boring green U.S. notes.

Re:Well you've got to be kidding me

[foobar104]

Right this second, I have a pocketful of Australian and Singaporean money. (Just got back from a trip.) At a glance, I can't tell the Aussie dollars from the Singapore dollars. They're both fairly brightly colored, but they're differently colored in an inconsistent way. In other words, an Aussie $5 bill is easy to distinguish from an Aussie $10 bill, but hard to distinguish-- at a glance-- from a Singapore $5 bill.

So it's two sides of the same coin, ha ha. It'd be a challenge to make the US dollar bills look different from one another while preventing them from looking like the bills of other countries.

Re:Well you've got to be kidding me

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

I don't think he was infering that he had muliple currecnies in his wallet at the same time. If that's the case, then yes either way is confusing. But most people just have one currency in the wallet. So colour does make sence for the majority.

Re:Well you've got to be kidding me

[ksheff]

Actually, I found the different color money wasn't that big of a deal. I always looked at the face of bill and the number. Having them different sized was a pain though.

this kind of money we need

[lingqi]

money shot

Excerpt from zzz: Bank notes of Belorussia: 3 and 10 rubles. Most countries put famous people on their money, Belorussia decided to put animals. There's a very special way to fold two notes...

it's a great day for drunks!

[so1omon]

the hard drinkers among us should all be cheering at this idea. how many times have we slapped down a $10 bill as part of a tip, thinking it was a $1? god knows, i've done it on an alarmingly regular basis. this could save me some cash, which could be used to buy more hard liquor!

on the other hand, bartenders should be weeping like babies right now.

currency tracking hardly needs rfids

[Surt]

I used to work for the treasury department, and back about 10 years ago they were working extensively with the FBI to improve on the ability to track down money laundering and counterfeiting.

The biggest thing heading our way in that department is a nationally linked serial number scanning system. Basically, since virtually all stores have laser scanners already, and a strong desire to avoid getting fed counterfeits (since they lose the counterfeit money without reparation), stores will be offered the opportunity to scan the money you hand them, and have a unique serial number checked against a national database. Money being used at multiple locations at the same time can be flagged as counterfeit, and refused by the stores.

The big benefit to the FBI comes when they can then follow money virtually every time it is spent. It can even be correlated with time stamped receipts at the stores to see what was bought.

A portion of this system is already in place in a number of banks, which have better scanners that work with the existing money supply, but in the next generation of currency, there will be a small bar code on the upper right edge of the currency for this purpose.

Its a pretty cool system, and should really help to cut down on organized crime.

Re:currency tracking hardly needs rfids

[nochops]

Bar code?

So what's to stop someone from printing a bill with the serial number of A01234567890A but a bar code that equates to B09876543210B. I can't decode bar codes on sight, can you?

So the counterfeiters can print the same bill many times, with the same human-readable Arabic numeral serial numbers on them all (this is the part that hard to print), and unique bar codes (bar codes are easy to print). The store clerk won't be able to tell the difference on sight, and when he scans the bill, the serial number would be unique, so it (hopefully) wouldn't match anything in the Fed's database.

Human-readable text has minute flaws and features that the experts can detect. They can say, for instance that such and such a bill, with such and such a serial number was printed from this plate, which has this tiny defect here. The bill doesn't have the defect, so it's probably a fake. Bar codes on the other hand, need to be read by a machine, so it needs to be pretty precise, AFAIK.

I could be misunderstanding something here, so correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like an awful lot of trouble for something so easy to circumvent.

Re:currency tracking hardly needs rfids

[ethereal]

So much for remaining untraceable by paying cash. I think this is the most Big Brother-esque thing I've ever heard.

Re:currency tracking hardly needs rfids

[grytpype]

I think it would not be cool if the bank kept records of the serial numbers on the currency it dispenses to me, and the merchant I give the cash to scans the serial numbers, and a record goes into a database somewhere (maybe in the Ministry of Homeland Security) that "grytpype just spent $20 buying Little Debbie Snack Cakes at KMart." That would really, really, really suck.

Re:currency tracking hardly needs rfids

[grytpype]

No, that would be like killing someone for his credit cards. You'd get busted (or tracked, at least) as soon as you used the cash.

You know, victim withdraws cash (duly noted in the MoHS database), victim gets killed (again, duly noted), killer buys Little Debbie Snack Cakes with victim's cash... one database lookup later, killer is firmly in the custody of KMart security (who have been deputized by MoHS, of course).

Re:currency tracking hardly needs rfids

[Cryptnotic]

this is the most Big Brother-esque thing I've ever heard.

You ain't seen nothing yet.

Re:currency tracking hardly needs rfids

[blibbleblobble]

Right. So we can't even use cash anonymously anymore?

The Guild

Re:currency tracking hardly needs rfids

[vanyel]

It's definitely time for a good smart-card based cash system. We need a good incentive for people to get smart card readers on their computers and then someone can start up a Paypal-esque system to use them...

Re:currency tracking hardly needs rfids

[adolf]

Nice idea, but horribly flawed.

A "unique" number which has not been printed on a legitimate bill (and, yes, the Treasury -already- knows the serial numbers of every bill ever released into circulation) would trivially and automagically be flagged as counterfeit.

Which means, since you can't just make them up and get away with it, that the counterfeiter must borrow serials from legitimate bills.

This leaves open the possibility that two uniquely identical bills (the counterfeit, and its legal clone) are in two places at the same time. Which, with this mythical database, is also trivial to flag.

It's not quite as easy to circumvent as you think.

Re:currency tracking hardly needs rfids

[mosch]

nah, RFID tags in every bill are way more big brother-esque.

why no, officer. i have no idea how it is that the money i pulled out of that atm got deposited into that drug dealer's bank account 2 days later. i spent that $400 on ice cream, not an ounce of alaskan thunderfuck.

Re:currency tracking hardly needs rfids

[KegDude]

..have a unique serial number checked against a national database. Money being used at multiple locations at the same time can be flagged as counterfeit, and refused by the stores.

That doesn't seem to make any sense. Say I am at Walmart and the guy in front on me uses a $5 bill to make a purchase, then I receive his $5 bill at part of my change. As I'm walking out, I see a display of batteries that I remember I need, so I pick some up and go to the next checkout counter. I might use the $5 bill to pay for them. Now, that same $5 bill was used just a minute ago, but that doesn't mean it's counterfeit.

Or I could receive a $5 bill at an airport shop, just before I get on a plane. If I use that $5 bill in another part of the country in another hour or three, that still doesn't mean it's counterfeit.

And if "being used in multiple locations at the same time" means "at the exact same time", then they are probably not going to catch too many counterfeit bills.

If it means "within a few hours" (or whatever time period, really), then they are going to be getting a whole lot of false positives.

I just don't see how this could work at all.

Re:currency tracking hardly needs rfids

[Pete (big-pete)]

It's definitely time for a good smart-card based cash system. We need a good incentive for people to get smart card readers on their computers and then someone can start up a Paypal-esque system to use them...

Such as these for example?

I live in Brussels, and we have "Proton" (PDF link) here. It's electronic cash, and I can charge it at my bank, and if I get an appropriate telephone terminal, then I can charge the card with money at home!

As a result, I can leave home in the morning, buy a newspaper, go to work, buy a Coke from a vending machine, buy my lunch, and then do my grocery shopping on the way home, all without handling even a single cent of physical cash.

Electronic cash is the true way forward - I'm just waiting for bars and cafes to adopt Proton, then I'll almost never need to carry real metal or paper money around at all.

-- Pete.

Re:currency tracking hardly needs rfids

[thelexx]

"but in the next generation of currency, there will be a small bar code on the upper right edge of the currency for this purpose."

And another control scheme falls to SuperSharpie, most permanent and black of markers! Is there no limit to its powers?!

LEXX

Re:currency tracking hardly needs rfids

[vanyel]

I know smart cards are quite common in Europe, but I didn't see any computers with readers when I was there. I would also want to make sure the protocols were safe, yet didn't leave tracks. I would like to see PDA's with readers also, so say we're at lunch and you all pay my pda, then I put it in my card (or maybe it has a dual reader and you do the transfer direct into my card), then I pay the bill --- simplifies the waiter(ess)'s job. Though I could also see them leaving a terminal with the bill at the table and each person checks off their menu items and enters a tip amount.

Still, you folks "across the pond" are way ahead of us and I'd first like to figure a way to get us jump started. American Express tried, but their software sucks so bad, it isn't useful as anything but a regular credit card.

Re:currency tracking hardly needs rfids

[Pete (big-pete)]

Well the technology isn't yet being used for the net, but I should think they're planning on it, it seems like the perfect alternative to stuff like Pay Pal.

There is no real security to actually use the cards, when a payment is made, the card is put into a reader, the shopkeeper types in the amount, and then the card-owner just presses "OK" to confirm. The transactions are usually so small, that any authentication process would cost far more than it's worth, so the card really is like cash. Generally people only keep as much cash on the card as they feel they are likely to need - I can't be bothered to charge it, and I trust myself not to lose it, so I usually just charge it to the maximum (125 Euros), and spend until I'm down to my last 10 Euros or so before recharging.

As for not leaving tracks, I don't know exactly how bad it is, but I have heard that it is possible to recover the cash from the bank if the chip gets damaged etc, but it's a long process. If this is true, then it means that all transactions must be tracable for the bank to be able to find exactly how much was left on the damaged card.

I personally don't have a problem with this, as I very much doubt there are any agencies out there that are really all that curious about how much I spent for lunch - or whether I've dropped by the newsagent today. I really don't think it's the kind of technology that people will be making any types of suspicious transactions with, due to the low amounts involved.

-- Pete.

differenciating

[larry bagina]

Apparently, with both size and color the same, foreigners have a hard time differenciating between the bills.

Where can I find some of these foreigners? I'd like to do some currency exchanging!

Cold, Hard Sentiment

[donnacha]

Apparently, with both size and color the same, foreigners have a hard time differenciating between the bills.

I realize how strange that must seem to Americans but it really is true; I travel all over the world and the U.S. is the only place where I have to really think about what I'm doing, it's insanely easy to make mistakes.

Given that money is meant to be representational, and given that the different bills represent entirely different amounts, it only makes sense to distinguish them from one another as much as possible.

I once met someone working within the US treasury and took the opportunity to ask him why they didn't take advantage of color printing. He reckoned that it was politics more than anything else; no politician wanted to be the one to suggest changing something with which Americans identify so strongly. I guess it's a bit like the British being sentimental about the pound despite all the jobs and markets they're losing to Ireland and the other countries who've adopted the Euro.

Re:Cold, Hard Sentiment

[Yunzil]

I travel all over the world and the U.S. is the only place where I have to really think about what I'm doing, it's insanely easy to make mistakes.

In other words, you admit that you can't think? :) Seriously though, given that you are handing over your money, shouldn't you be paying attention to what you're doing?

Re:Cold, Hard Sentiment

[donnacha]

In other words, you admit that you can't think? :) Seriously though, given that you are handing over your money, shouldn't you be paying attention to what you're doing?

That's exactly my point: I want to devote my attention to the transaction, not to making sure I'm accidently handing over a fifty instead of a twenty.

Everyday, each of us has a continual flow of details we try to keep track of. Sometimes we miss a few and that's when we make mistakes. Good design is about making things so effortless to use, so intuitive, that we can concentrate on a wider range of elements.

In the case of money, it's very useful if you're able to flip quickly through what's in your pocket , recognizing each note's value by glimpsing any part of it.

Money is used everyday by almost everyone. Even a few seconds lost per transaction mounts up to a lot of wasted time and energy. I would suggest that Americans don't realize how much time they waste on this because they've never become accustomed to a better system.

Re:RFID tags

[nochops]

Umm....no. The strip you're referring to is just another anti-counterfeiting measure, and simply has "USA" and the denomination spelled out. It is not magnetic.

Damn!

[Sean Clifford]

Damn, now I'll have to upgrade all my counterfeiting equipment!

We've already done multi color

[Kagato]

There are several times in the US past when bills had other colors on them. Dating back to the 1800's. No one died then. Why does this have to be a big deal.

As long as they aren't yellow...

[Smallest]

...like a credit card receipt. i'd be tearing them up and throwing them away. :(

-c

how about real change?

[Mr. Slippery]

While they're at it, howsabout some real change in the bills - like changing who's on them?

Start with the $20. Jackson. How did this genocidal maniac, who laid the seeds of the Trail of Tears, who shattered the Constitutional balance of power by ignoring rulings of the Supreme Court, who appointed Taney (who authored the Dred Scott decision) to that same court, end up honored with a place on our money?

Re:how about real change?

[Grishnakh]

I've always wondered about this too. Jackson was easily the worst President the U.S. ever had for exactly the reasons you stated. Why is he constantly honored?

I'd like to see Jefferson take his place. Or how about some other old Presidents, like John Adams, who never seem to get much recognition?

Re:how about real change?

[cryptochrome]

Oddly enough Jackson has an interesting history with money.

The Second Bank of the United States was established in 1816, and quickly became one of the most influential institutions in the world. Many people regarded the privately owned bank which wielded independent of the government as a dangerous and anti-democratic institution, benefitting the rich at the expense of the working class and heavily tied to foreign interests. Or as banker Meyer Rothschild wrote, "Let me issue and control a nation's currency and I care not who writes its laws." No person fought so hard and so opposed the bank as the populist Andrew Jackson, who once famously remarked "The bank...is trying to kill me, but I will kill it!" In 1836 Jackson vetoed the bill to renew it's charter, and considered it one of the greatest accomplishments of his career. However, following the panic of 1907 the Federal Reserve was established, for all intents and purposes identical to it's predecessors.

It is with considerable irony that Jackson's visage now appears appears on the $20 bill, beneath the words "Federal Reserve Note".

Re:how about real change?

[Grishnakh]

No, I meant Jefferson. The two is so rare, that Jefferson I think is getting a raw deal by being on it instead of a far more popular bill like the 20. How about they put Jefferson on the new 20, put some not-so-notable President on the 2 (like Adams maybe), and put the truth about Jackson in the history books for once.

And the score is....

[nochops]

Well, with about 100 posts so far, I see about half from non-Americans, with legit reasons why the US should use this system, and about half from Americans, basically saying fsck the foreigners...they need to learn to read the numbers...etc.

It speaks volumes about our (Americans') culture and attitude towards the rest of the world as a society, and yes, I'm American.

Re:And the score is....

[alienmole]

I'm not an American, I grew up with colored notes, but I've lived in the US for 11 years and haven't had any problem dealing with the banknotes. I prefer them, actually, but for subjective reasons that others have mentioned - they seem more serious than the brightly colored "monopoly" money in many other countries.

I haven't been seeing a lot of really valid arguments from non-Americans - so far, the only one I really buy is for blind or partially-sighted people. For them, I would think the color might not be the main issue - some braille and appropriate simple differentiating symbols would seem to do the trick.

I think Americans are right to say that they shouldn't change their currency simply because some outsiders have trouble with it. It should only need to be changed if it's demonstrably inferior. No-one's actually demonstrated the need for color yet - instead, they're arguing based on preference and what they're used to.

There are all sorts of confusing things about moving between countries. Language, for one thing. This is about the least important of those. I'd argue that Americans should not change their currency simply to satisfy those who want America to be more like what they're used to. What's next - please don't play baseball or American football, it confuses us???

Re:And the score is....

[L. VeGas]

It speaks volumes about our (Americans') culture and attitude towards the rest of the world

There's a lot of good reasons for the French to adopt English as their primary language. It speaks volumes about their culture that they stubbornly refuse to comply.

Re:And the score is....

[SirSlud]

-2 for a totally broken and impotant point.

How the hell does the value of the american dollar proove that its easier to read? You don't really think that countries adopt the american dollar because of how its printed, do you? Thank you for my laugh of the afternoon. :)

Of course, I may have just been troll-fed, but at least it beats what I'm workin on right now.

Re:And the score is....

[Dephex Twin]

So yeah, Americans will resist change, but another way of looking at it is, why fix what isn't broken?

Why not improve when something has been shown to be demonstrably better?

I don't see this as Europeans telling us what to do. It's not like some Americans (who are rational) don't also think this is a good idea.

mark

Re:And the score is....

[renoX]

Mmm, do you realise that a large part of Europe just changed their currency unit?

And no, it isn't easy: in my mind I still use the old one, but I hope that in 2 years or more, I'll get used.

As for being stubborn, which contry has refused to use meters as their standard unit for decades?
:-)

Re:And the score is....

[wannabe]

We're American.

We rule the world now since the most Imperial Bush II has ascended to the throne.

Let the rest of the world change to our standards, they'll have to sooner or later.

Re:And the score is....

[brogdon]

"How the hell does the value of the american dollar proove that its easier to read?"

It doesn't. If you think that was the point I was trying to make you have reading comprehension issues.

The point I was attempting to illustrate is that the rest of the world should just be grateful our nice, stable dollar is around at all, and shut the hell up about what color it is.

Re:And the score is....

[perky]

10 means 10 for everyone (except for geeks that see at as 2 in binary or 8 in octal, or 16 in hex ;)

I don't know about you, but for me ten is 1010 in binary, 12 in octal and 10 in hex. I think that you are perhaps slightly missing the point of using different bases.

Re:And the score is....

[perky]

I suppose we should take into account more foreign opinion on our money considering it's the most relied-upon cash in the world.

Did you just ignore the first paragraph?

Re:And the score is....

[rtaylor]

I hope that in 2 years or more, I'll get used.

Me too, but in the good way -- and with an increased frequency ;)

Re:And the score is....

[aridhol]

I haven't been seeing a lot of really valid arguments from non-Americans - so far, the only one I really buy is for blind or partially-sighted people. For them, I would think the color might not be the main issue - some braille and appropriate simple differentiating symbols would seem to do the trick.

We use braille in Canada on our new 5s and 10s. The problem is that after a few transactions, the braille wears down to nothing. They need to use a different system than just raising the bumps on the paper. Maybe putting something (plastic?) into the paper where the bumps should be.

Re:Arabic numerals anyone?

[Moridineas]

They're not Arabic numerals. Arabic speaking countries for the most part use their own numbering system, which in some cases looks somewhat similar to ours. 1 is a vertical slanting line, 4 is a backwards 3, 5 is a o shaped 0, 6 is a slanting 7, 0 is a period, etc. it is true that the general base 10 numbering system came through arabic hands to Europe (from India), but our letters in their current form aren't arabic. Calling them arabic is like calling our letters hieroglyphics (we got ours from the Romans, who got theirs from Etruscans, from Greeks, from Phoenicians, ROUGHLY from hieroglyphics)

Let's try a test

[swb]

Go to any country in the world. Give away a $1, $20 or $100 to whoever wants one. See how many $1 bills you actually give away. See how many $100 bills you actually give away.

If you give away anything but $100 bills, then I'll believe foreigners can't tell American money apart.

Re:Let's try a test

[markmoss]

That test had better be in a _rich_ foreign country - there are lots of places an American $1 is worth a day's pay, for the lucky few that even have a job. Try it in Afghanistan and they'll take all the bills and all your change too - and maybe run off to the scrap metal dealer with your keychain.

Re:Let's try a test

[swb]

According to most of the sources I've read, the $100 is not only the most popular but the most widely counterfeited denomination.

This would make sense if you consider that much of the developing world, which holds like 60% of the US currency overseas, uses it pretty much as the currency for getting anything meaningful done. If you factor in a cash-based economy that uses or demands US dollars for many transactions (foreign exchange, probably many of them), denominations smaller than $100 don't make sense when you're trying to pay someone thousands of dollars.

I'd guess that the usual situation is to hold quantities of dollars in $100s, but perform small-denomination transactions in the local currency. It's also likely that local governments, perhaps even assuming good intentions, dislike a lot of US currency floating around as it tends to devalue the local currency, if not in terms of exchange rate at least in terms of status/desirability.

How will this affect Danger Mouse?

[rhiorg]

Just as I'm about to finish the script for my live-action adaptation of Danger Mouse, I learn that we're changing our money. Great.

So now the name Silas Greenback will be an antiquated reference and the villainous character will have to be changed to reflect whatever color the government finally chooses. It will change the entire dynamic of the show, since the name "Greenback" made since because he is GREEDY and therefore desires MONEY, and because he is a FROG. A GREEN FROG.

I just hope they don't choose pink...because then the villain will have to be a Flamingo in order for the name to work. And there's already a bird villain in the show - the nefarious Stiletto! Not to mention Mad Manuel, "the Flamenco assassin", which sounds entirely too much like flamingo.

Thanks for ruining Danger Mouse, you feds!

Bad idea

[af_robot]

Considering the cost of ink cartridges i don't think it will be very profitable.

Re:Bad idea

[discogravy]

Haven't you got that email about how to refill your ink cartidges cheaply? It's all I get in my hotmail accounts.

Re:Bad idea

[SmittyTheBold]

Just wait until the Smitty Press introduces the new $20,000 note. Then maybe printing my own money will be profitable...

Re:Trouble? Trouble at the Gentlemans Club

[Bob McCown]

Us poor guys who wave the singles will be screwed!!!

Actually, probably NOT screwed...

Terrible idea

[Anonymous Coward]

The last thing I want is multicolored money. I don't want some asshole to know I'm carrying a big note by seeing a certain color in my wallet while I'm at the grocery store.

There are many situations where it's possible for other people to view my money. I don't want some careful observer 5 meters away to know I'm carrying more than usual because of some colored Monopoly money!

Re:Terrible idea

[jcsehak]

On the flip side, you also wouldn't be able to wrap a $20 around a wad of ones and look like a high roller. Terrible idea indeed.

Re:Terrible idea

[edunbar93]

Or, alternatively, you could get mugged over a bunch of ones with the current money.

Besides, you guys have heard of Interac, right? :)

Re:Terrible idea

[Kanasta]

You're a retard.

Which will expose your money to view longer?

1) Glancing in your slightly parted wallet and seeing eg 5 red notes, 2 green ones, and 1 blue one?

2) Taking the wad of cash out of your wallet and viewing each note individually to ascertain its value?

Who the f*&k is going to count your money before they rob you anyway? You have a fat wallet, they'll take it. If they all happen to be $1s, bad luck, they'll take that risk.

If you live somewhere where everyone around you is trying to rob you anyway, you should really consider moving to a safer neighborhood.

Re:About Time!

[meknapp]

Frankly, I don't get what's so hard about it. The numbers are represented as large digits on all four corners on both sides. (1,5,10,20) It is written out in English on the bottom on both sides (ONE DOLLAR)

Granted, it's a system I grew up with, but now looking at least the 1,10, & 20 objectively - they are clearly marked. Particularly the newer bills have bigger numbers.

I frequently go to Canada, and I've become accustomed to their monetary system as well. However, I don't feel the bright colors really help differentiate the bills - it just makes them seemer less stately, more Disney.

Just my $.02 US ;)

Waste of money

[jonerik]

Keeee-rist, doesn't the government have anything better to do? I'd argue that one of the reasons why people - albeit subconsciously - regard the dollar as highly as they do is because of its monochromatic appearance. Because of that it looks solid. Sturdy. Foreign currencies might be more festive, but to be honest, to us Americans it just looks like their treasuries couldn't make up their damn minds, which is not a big confidence builder.

And I know I'm about the hundredth person to mention it, but how hard is it to look at the corner of the goddamn bill?

In any event, Congress will never go along with it. The treasury department has been trying to switch over to dollar coins for years, but Congress just laughs at them and beats them up for their lunch money whenever it comes up.

Re:Waste of money

[SirSlud]

> ... to us Americans it just looks like their treasuries couldn't make up their damn minds, which is not a big confidence builder.

This is somewhat frightening. Americans (well, for the sake of argument, I assume you cant speak for _all_ of them, so lets say you) conclude that treasuries with multi-coloured currency 'cant decide on a colour'? The article is about suggesting or investigating the possibility that different colours for each denomination may actually be a good thing for those who use it. Personally, the better and more efficiently a population gets at 'using' a currency, the higher my confidence in that currency tends to go.

> And I know I'm about the hundredth person to mention it, but how hard is it to look at the corner of the goddamn bill?

And I know I'm the hundredth person to point this out, but what about blind people?

Re:Waste of money

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

And I know I'm about the hundredth person to mention it, but how hard is it to look at the corner of the goddamn bill?

Very hard if they're all stuffed in your wallet with the corners covered up. I could give you more senarios if you want.

Adding colour just make things easier. It's as simple as that. I don't know what big deal is (actually I do, but I'd rather not get into cultural/political value of the Greenback).

Re:Waste of money

[jonerik]

Americans (well, for the sake of argument, I assume you cant speak for _all_ of them, so lets say you) conclude that treasuries with multi-coloured currency 'cant decide on a colour'?

Actually, I said "it just looks like their treasuries couldn't make up their damn minds." There's a difference between perception and stating something as a fact.

And I know I'm the hundredth person to point this out, but what about blind people?

Maybe it's an obvious question, but how would changing the color of the bill help them?

Re:Trouble? Trouble at the Gentlemans Club

[Pfhreakaz0id]

somebody uses something other than ones? She's gonna have to do more than rub her breasts on my face for a fiver, or am I a cheap bastard?

Note to self: Stop asking rhetorical questions... I mean, do they ever accomplish anything?

But I was told that color and size don't matter!

[L. VeGas]

Boy am I humiliated. Up till now I thought my 6" money was quite adequate.

Ignorance is no excuse for stupidity

[southpolesammy]

Come on. Really. US currency is the most well known currency on the planet, is used in lieu of local currency in some locales, and has several mechanisms installed to prevent counterfeiting as well as to ensure the readability of the bills.

Go to the Secret Service website and look up the details behind the reason why American currency is designed the way it is.

It's what you're used to

[alienmole]

I've lived in the US for 11 years, and I don't find that I have to check twice that I'm not handing over a twenty instead of a one. You're just used to certain cues and haven't got used to different ones yet.

I had much more of a problem with the fact that a dime is physically smaller than a nickel or even a penny, but is worth more. What's up with that??

Re:It's what you're used to

[Dephex Twin]

I am also American, and I can agree that I generally can recognize the bills pretty quickly and don't have much trouble.

However, I think we have all had times when we accidentally hand a 5 instead of a one when we're trying to gather the money really fast, or when we can't quite remember if we had just handed a 10 or a 20 to the cashier. If the 10 was blue and the 20 was red, it would be easier to recall that information.

Perhaps you (meant generally) can count American money quickly. Do you really think that it wouldn't be faster if the bills were more distinct?

While the money DOES look different, having different colors and sizes for each bill makes it even easier. Why should it just be "not too difficult if you are used to it" when it can be easy for all? Is there some good reason to avoid it?

Imagine if all the coins were the same size and color, and just had big numbers on them. Sure, we could tell them apart, but it sure sounds like a pain in the ass, doesn't it?

That's where Europeans are coming from. We Americans have just adapted to this pain-in-the-ass paper money.

mark

Re:It's what you're used to

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

I've lived in the US for 11 years, and I don't find that I have to check twice that I'm not handing over a twenty instead of a one. You're just used to certain cues and haven't got used to different ones yet.

That's the whole point. Having coloured notes is a much bugger cue as to what the note is. It's as simple as that. It just makes more sence.
The only reason I can think of for someone not wanting to go to coloured notes is because of tradition etc. Not usability.

I just hope they do like M & Ms did

[sootman]

and let us vote on the color. Pink! Blue! Purple!

Internet Holographic Paper!

[Quixadhal]

Now that we're pretty close to having LCD paper, and wireless internet access in every major city, I'm all for the next generation of money having LCD hologram foil that has a full 3-D animation of George W (or whomever is President when it's "printed") waving out from each bill. Whenever you're in range of a wireless network, the hologram can be updated to meet the current political climate, and of course banner ads can scroll between the large flashing colored denomination symbols. (Quickly pulsing red ball means $50, slower green pyramid means $20).

Now if they can get integrated micro-foil speakers too, we can have money that talks to us and cries "Spend Me!", "I've been in your wallet for 3 days, Don't you need more Cheezy-Poofs?"

Re:Internet Holographic Paper!

[SirSlud]

If Americans have any luck, it might just be the ink they plan to print the new bills on.

(Imagine! "Smoking money - its not just for the rich anymore!")

MOD most of this up.

[Neil Watson]

Apart from the war rant I think this deserves a little +1 MOD.

Try picking bills in a wallet without colors

[C0vardeAn0nim0]

I've seen enough americans here saying "read the fscking number". but what when the bills are inside a wallet, or purse ?

you have to take all the bills out to read the numbers ? oh, but there's the images, right ? wrong. except for the 1 dolar bill I have no fucking clue of who is in each bill. inside a wallet all of them look the same to me.

now with colors at least I'll know that they're diferent, and it'll be easier to associate the colors with the face value if I ever go to US.

face it, from all the so called "civilized" countries, US is way behind in terms of currency printing technology.

Bad Idea: We'll lose brand recognition

[mikosullivan]

I'm against adding color to the bills. The US dollar is the most accepted, stable currency in the world. It may be "boring", but it's trusted. From a marketing standpoint, the greenish color scheme has fantastic brand awareness. People know it's US currency just by glancing at it. We will do our monetary system a disservice by trashing this brand

Re:Bad Idea: We'll lose brand recognition

[ryanvm]

From a marketing standpoint, the greenish color scheme has fantastic brand awareness.

Good point - we wouldn't want people to start using competing U.S. currencies. Seriously, you sat through too many marketing classes if you think U.S. currency needs brand awareness to be valuable.

Re:Bad Idea: We'll lose brand recognition

[kevin lyda]

"brand recognition"? this is a news for nerds site, not a news for marketing weasels site.

it's my understanding that the latest changes in the us currency were due in part to the fact that us currency was too easily copied.

National Identity?

[DeadVulcan]

The fact that some people seem to get so emotional about bills seems to indicate that money is a substantial part of their identification with their national identity.

It's only money. I find this a bit troubling. And I'm not even American.

I suspect in most parts of the world, this is a no-brainer.

the blind man I asked

[bluGill]

Told me that he just kept different bills in different compartments of his billfold. He asked clerks to seperate them for them, and if things were complex just handed his wallet to the clerk. Clerks don't cheat the blind guy we guess.

Re:LIARS!!!!!

[xyzzy]

Simply printing more currency doesn't a priori devalue the dollar. First, there are way more "notional" dollars than physical ones. So, all the treasury has to do is swap some "notional" ones for physical ones, and presto: we have more physical dollars and no devaluation.

As to the silverback issue: what do you mean, exchange for a POUND of silver? You could exchange your dollar for a dollar of silver. And you still can. You just have to go to some place where you can buy silver.

Re:About Time!

[stcanard]

Frankly, I don't get what's so hard about it. The numbers are represented as large digits on all four corners on both sides. (1,5,10,20) It is written out in English on the bottom on both sides (ONE DOLLAR)

The problem is a lifetime of habit. You grew up knowing you had to look at the numbers in the corner, so you do. I grew up being able to tell the denomination by a quick glance at the paper in general,so I do.

Remembering to actually look at the corner and focus on the number there really does take a lot of effort, after 30 odd years of not having to.

It's much the same way people read. You aren't actually looking at each individual letter in this post, you're just recognizing the pattern of the word. If the writing is hard to decipher, then you have to slow down and spell out each individual letter to get the word.

That's how foreigners feel every time they try to deal with American money.

Change in the infastructure

[wompser]

Personally, I'm all for the change. But there is something that no one has pointed out yet: The enormous cost of new capital machinery.

Many years ago I worked for Coca-Cola, who had 1 million plus vending machines with dollar bill acceptors in South East Wisconsin. Figuring the hard costs alone of new bill validators at 20 million bucks, you can bet there are going will be some VERY strong lobbying when these proposed changes start getting discussed.

Re:Change in the infastructure

[RollingThunder]

So in other words, about twenty bucks a machine, or probably less than a days take per machine.

Big freaking deal. The flipside can be argued, that there will be e benefit to the economy because all these new acceptors will be made and purcahsed.

Re:Change in the infastructure

[bug506]

There are no plans to change the $1 bill, nor the $5 and $10 as of now. The only vending machines that would be affected would be those that take $20, of which there are relatively few...

Off the top of my head, I can think of two groups that will likely be affected--high-priced subways (like SF BART and DC Metro) and casinos (with all of their slot machines).

Since these groups just upgraded their machines to the latest technology for the last bill change, hopefully the bill readers will require only a software upgrade to recognize the new bills.

Re:Change in the infastructure

[Sentry21]

Just hope they do everything at once. The Canadian government recently changed the look of the new $5 and $10 bills. They look much nicer now, much more European as well as having much nicer security features (ever held one up to a blacklight? it's pretty neat).

The problem is, they staggered the releases. The $10s came out first, and now most of the $10 bills I handle (I work at a major grocery chain in the photo/electronics department) are the new ones. Then, maybe a year later, they released the new $5 bills, even though they were designed at the same time. The result? Two redesigns of bill readers and two refittings of any vending machines that accept bills.

However, since we introduced $2 coins, they, in combination with the $1 and $0.25 coins we already had, can be used for... well, any vending machine. The only bill readers I've seen in Canada are in change machines. As much as I hate pocketfuls of coins, I hate bill readers more. Go us.

As an aside, American money is the ugliest money I've ever seen. I was in Amsterdam last year, and I thought to myself 'this is really ugly money'. When I got a good look at American money a few months later though, I realized thet Dutch money is merely plain. American money is seriously hard to look at.

--Dan

Re:Change in the infastructure

[seann]

anything like when Canada introduced the Toonie?
Or the loonie?
Sure we're a small country, but that's still a *very* *big* *change* *in* *money*

US Currency not ugly

[cryptochrome]

I don't think the currency is ugly at all. Far from it. While other countries' gaudy bills look like flyers for some cheap rave, our distinctive greenbacks always look exactly like money. You may not be able to tell how much from just a quick glance or feel, but that is not necessarily bad. The designs on the bills are intricate and detailed yet highly visible and consistently recognizable, as is the color and feel of the cash. The idea that a multicolored design is somehow more desireable than a monochromatic one is just plain dumb, like saying that color photography is artisticly superior to black and white. As for the subject matter of dead great presidents and historical monuments and emblems, that suits me just fine. It may not be touchy-feely, but it's our history.

And on a side note, just how is changing our currency going to benefit the US? A careless tourist may give you the wrong money, but no cashier will accept it - except maybe if it is too high, which ultimately represents an influx of cash. Too bad for them, but it's their own fault.

Re:It is about time.

[SirSlud]

>What a racket!

Makes for a far more effective mating call than the ever-silent paper-stuffed wallet tho ...

Register your discontent!

[Galvatron]

Sure, it's not as important as writing your congressmen to stop the SSSCA, or what have you, but if the idea of the US going to Monopoly money pisses you off, they did helpfully give two contacts on the press release:

Federal Reserve - Susan Stawick - 202-452-2955
Bureau of Engraving and Printing - Dawn Haley - 202-874-3545

Alternatively, fill in this form.

Re:Register your discontent!

[B.D.Mills]

the idea of the US going to Monopoly money
You've got it backwards. The design for Monopoly money was based on US currency. I guess they added the colour to make the game easier for children to play.

Not for foreigners

[RobinH]

I don't know where you get the idea that it's deliberately for "foreigners"... I heard this story on the radio a month ago, and the story definitely mentioned it was to make counterfeiting more difficult.

The newest Canadian bills are not only different colours, but they have braille, a special glossy maple leaf overlay, and a bunch of pressed on 'dots' which, with some difficulty, can be peeled off to prove they are not just printed on. All of these things (except, perhaps, the braille) are primarily to stop counterfeiting.

... and guess what: I use both Canadian and U.S. currency every day, and the different colours of Canadian money make it wayyy easier to differentiate different denominations.

Consider this, many times, you just went to a bank machine and got $100 as five $20 bills. Then you buy a pack of gum to break one of the twenties. Later, when you go to pay for something that's $4.95, and you want to find that $5 bill you know is in your wallet, it's MUCH easier to just look for a blue piece of paper, rather than looking at the writing on each individual bill. Maybe it only saves you 5 or 10 seconds, but if you're in a line with 5 or 10 people, and each person takes 5 or 10 seconds longer, that adds up over the course of a day.

Besides that, twice in the last two years, someone giving me change in the U.S. has tried to pass off a $1 as a $10. I noticed it, but I wonder how many times they actually succeed?

Re:Not for foreigners

[Atlantix]

Consider this, many times, you just went to a bank machine and got $100 as five $20 bills. Then you buy a pack of gum to break one of the twenties. Later, when you go to pay for something that's $4.95, and you want to find that $5 bill you know is in your wallet, it's MUCH easier to just look for a blue piece of paper, rather than looking at the writing on each individual bill. Maybe it only saves you 5 or 10 seconds, but if you're in a line with 5 or 10 people, and each person takes 5 or 10 seconds longer, that adds up over the course of a day.

Of course, while you're waiting in line with those 5 to 10 people, you could find that $5 bill and have it ready by the time you get to the front of the line and the line will move efficiently. Of course, we could easily get into a discussion of the likelihood of Americans being that curteous... :)

--Atlantix2000

Re:Not for foreigners

[Sentry21]

The newest Canadian bills are not only different colours, but they have braille, a special glossy maple leaf overlay, and a bunch of pressed on 'dots' which, with some difficulty, can be peeled off to prove they are not just printed on. All of these things (except, perhaps, the braille) are primarily to stop counterfeiting.

You forgot to mention the 'Bank of Canada' text and logo, and the little weird wormy lines that show up on the bill when you hold them up to a blacklight. Blacklights are relatively cheap and you can them forever, so it's an inexpensive way for retailers to verify bills, and it's great for banks, who can always use one more way to verify bills.

--Dan

Geez I've already been modded down once

[sielwolf]

But the entire reason to change the money so far has been "Americans are resistant to change" and so, to prove that they aren't, they should change.

Huh? Because using US cash is only marginally more difficult to use than other cash, it should change. C'mon... It's not like US money is all written in 3cm squares with only barcodes on them to differentiate them.

A similar argument: "In the US they only have stick-shift automobiles! As a foreign contractor this is annoying! Back home everyone drives automatics! And when we tell them to change they say 'We should change just because it assaults your refined foreign tastes?' like a bunch of rubes! Stupid americans..."

To say that a people are free to chose only what you let them isn't freedom.

Actually I wish all automobiles had to be stick-shifts. It would solve the cellphone problem right quick.

Blind

[macemoneta]

I always wondered why US currency wasn't different sizes, or used "feelable" edges, so the visually impaired or blind could identify the denomination.

Counterfeiting, Dark Taxis, and Natioanl Image

[plcurechax]

I think it is a great idea, because it finally allows the US Treasury to put some decent anti-counterfeiting into their bills. I mean you think they would be embarassed to be the most successfully counterfeited currency in the world.

Not just new hued (i.e. not bright colours, but various hues) bills but magentic inks, water-spots, metal foil sown into the fiber, various printing methods (for a tactial feel to the blind). Other countries such as Canada have introduced braille for the blind.

The braille is also good for check your pockets at the bars before offering to buy the next round of beer. While in Britian I had my first exposure to different sized bills, and I found it useful to be able to assess at a glance what is in my wallet, and to double check the change from the taxis driver after a night out. Too often you cannot read the bills since it is dark, and taxis are pretty horrid at having burnt out interior lights.

Of course many people will be distracted by the "national image", the real issues of harder to make a quality counterfeit it to the benefit of the US economy, and just about everyone in the US except criminals and the CIA (who have been accused of counterfeiting, but never proven).

For those who cannot understand the tourist angle. I suspect that is a PR claim, but visitors are not only dealing with a new currency, they are often using a second, third, or fifth language, and also trying to do currency conversion to their native currency when shopping and trying to budget their trip. There are those shop keepers and tourist industry people who try to take advanage of the similiar appearance. I'm know that there has been more than a couple bait-and-switch cases of people doing much like a card trick when giving back change; to not just tourists but everyday Americians.

Re:Counterfeiting, Dark Taxis, and Natioanl Image

[brood]

I think it is a great idea, because it finally allows the US Treasury to put some decent anti-counterfeiting into their bills. I mean you think they would be embarassed to be the most successfully counterfeited currency in the world.

If I'm not mistaken, (and with my luck...), anyway, I think that US currency is the most widely used currency in the world. I guess it's only the law of averages that it would be the most successfully counterfeited. Not that that's an excuse...

The only thing I don't like about the idea of brightly colored bills is what every other person seems to like about it, the fact that you can so easily tell the difference between denominations. What happens when you're getting your money out of an ATM machine at night? It certainly makes it easier for crooks to target you.

Re:Counterfeiting, Dark Taxis, and Natioanl Image

[plcurechax]

most widely-accepted currency in the world? With buying power almost anywhere?

What does widely accepted and buying power have to do with whether the US dollar bills are easy to forge or not? Nothing.

It is not in the best interest of the US economy or any other legitimate economy in the world for forged US bills to be used.

I also suspect that in 10-20 years the Euro may surpass the US dollar, in part because of Europe's more pro-active stance against counterfeiting, and being a currency backed by three very powerful and stable countries (UK, Germany, France).

Re:Counterfeiting, Dark Taxis, and Natioanl Image

[Swaffs]

ATM's these days mostly only spit out 20's anyway, and most of those that do spit out smaller denominations won't be for much longer.

Re:Counterfeiting, Dark Taxis, and Natioanl Image

[CProgrammer98]

"The only real advantage i can see would be that you could fan your money and find blue"

Exactly, except it should read "casually glance at it to find the blue". You have to look harder to find the number 5, wheras a blue 5 pound note is blatently obviously different to thr orangy brown 10 pound note

examples?

[brer_rabbit]

Anyone have a picture of one of the new bills? Preferrably a large tiff image, around 2400 dpi, front and back...something I could print at the local Kinkos?

I think you're onto something there.

[cryptochrome]

I think you're on to something there. Our country is a nation of immigrants who have come seeking political freedom and economic opportunity. And what symbolizes economic opportunity in America more than anything? MONEY. GREENBACKS. $$$$. Which incidentally have pictures of the folks responsible for said political freedom. A symbol of our nation. Multicolored, multisized bills with non-historical designs, in contrast, look like monopoly money to us.

P.S. I also think we should bite the bullet and go metric. But changing the highway signs alone will be crazy expensive.

Re:I think you're onto something there.

[Preposterous Coward]

P.S. I also think we should bite the bullet and go metric. But changing the highway signs alone will be crazy expensive.

True, but how much does it cost to deal with the confusion that arises because of the inconsistency between metric and "Imperial" (or whatever you want to call them) units? What was the NASA fiasco with Mars Global Surveyor...

US money should have different arrangements

[iabervon]

If you look at the traditional US currency from a distance (both sides), you'll find that it all looks exactly the same, except for the $2, which has a big picture on the back. Of course, few people regularly use the $2. It was really nice when the new $20 came out, because it looked really different from the other bills, while still looking somewhat like US money. Then they came out with $10 and $5 bills that looked like $20 bills (since I'd gotten used to $20 bills looking the new way).

Rather than using different colors, they should use different designs: leave the $1 the way it's always been, the $20 the new way, make the $5 and $10 different in other ways, make the front of the $2 like the back (wide, rounded image). Make $100+ bills different colors.

Of course, they could make the bills all different colors, but leave the $1 the same way we're used to. I think the identifying feature of US currency is the fact that there are all the busy sections of little lines, more than the color.

Smalltime Counterfeit Attempts

[Kozz]

Well, here in the US, I've worked at numerous stores handling cash, and I can tell you that "knowing who's on the face of a bill" and bill color definitely has a effect on the ability to counterfeit. Some small-time counterfeit attempts will try to do things like cut single corners off a $20 or $50 and then put those high-denomination corners onto the body of a smaller-denomination bill, like a $5 or something.

It's not a high-volume method of counterfeiting, but some people will give it a shot anyhow. Now if the colors of different denominations change, surely you'll notice if the corner of a bill is an entirely different color from the body of the bill. It's not such a bad idea.

Otherwise an inattentive clerk might look only at the corner of the bill to determine the denomination, and won't notice that, "Hey, waitta minute, why is Lincoln on the face of the $50 bill?" Sure, you can also read the "FIFTY DOLLARS" printed on the body of the bill as well, but colors would definitely help.

boon times for underachievers

[GungaDan]

So now the cashier at McDonalds, after keying in your order based on pictures of food instead of those tough-to-master words, can tap, "wonder-horse" style, on a color chart to tell you how much you owe. It's surely a sign of the anti-number end times. And I suspect Tom Ridge is involved.

Re:About Time!

[Grishnakh]

Well, in the case of the measurement system, I think it would probably pay for itself in time as foreign companies do more business with American companies, due to using the same measurement system. There'd be lots of savings, like garages not having to keep two sets of tools, people not making English/Metric conversion errors (like with a certain spacecraft), etc.

Changing the sizes of currency won't save any money for anyone (except for people too lazy to look at the numerals and giving away $100 bills instead of $1s); it'll just cost.

Powers of 2

[Frank T. Lofaro Jr.]

Let's go whole hog and make money in powers of 2.

$1, $2, $4, $8, etc. denominations.

It would make it so much easier for geeks to count, and make writing software for ATMs so much simpler.

;)

Break out the alcohol!

[Planetes]

I was at Mardi Gras in New Orleans (lived there at the time) a few years ago and had a Canadian friend ask me if I knew why Canadian bills were all different colors. With a dead serious expression he said "So you can tell them apart when your drunk.." and walked off. Knowing his drinking habits, I've always got a personal chuckle that in his case I believe it.

Re:About Time!

[Yunzil]

You could pull out the bill look at the number and know the value. OR you could look at the colours of the currency in your wallet and immediately know how much you got. not looking at numbers

You don't have to yank it all the way out of your wallet, just thumb the corner. Jeez. And I've been in England where the money is in different colors. Except I still can't tell a purple-and-orange 5 from an orange-and-purple 10. Or was it the other way around? Or was it the 20?

American money looks fake anyway so don't worry about ruining its integrity.

English money looks MORE fake, and that plastic Australian money looks like it was manufactured by Parker Brothers. :)

Cost of new money cost of counterfeiting

[captaineo]

Changing the form of paper money is not without costs. Consider that vending machines, subway machines, and any other bill-accepting device must be upgraded to recognize the new format.

I read in the USA Today this morning that last time our paper currency was altered (1996), it cost the vending industry $350 million to adapt. The same article quotes that only about $50 million in counterfeit currency is passed per year.

Is it just me, or does this sound like a huge waste of money? By changing the currency once again, the government is going to force the vending industry through another huge upgrade, the costs of which will inevitably be passed on to consumers. All to counter a measly $50 million in counterfeiting?

I understand that aside from the dollar cost of counterfeiting, there is also the issue of trust in the currency (a legitimate dollar is worth a little less when counterfeiting is widely suspected). But still, the vending industry's $350 million investment only lasted 6 years, and I bet most of the money was spent earlier rather than later, so even the amortized cost is still much higher than the cost of counterfeiting.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out if the lawmakers that allowed this just happen to be in the home state/city of a vending machine parts manufacturer... Government waste makes me sick.

Re:Wait...

[Scrameustache]

Besides that, how will vending machines and change machines, etc, be able to adapt?

Oh, vending machines are very adaptable, I've been teaching the one at work to play dead and go fetch...

Re:About Time!

[Yunzil]

The U.S. and Boliva (IIRC) are the only two countries that *don't* use the metric system

Er, we DO use the metric system. Just not in public. :) The car industry, for example, switched ages ago.

Re:About Time!

[kafka93]

Although your point is well-taken, it misses a couple of things. For starters, in most countries I would imagine that the currency *does* change on a reasonably regular basis, even if only in fairly small ways -- basically, to prevent piracy. It seems likely that all of the vending machines of which you speak would therefore need to be updated at any rate. Secondly - I didn't say anything about different sizes of money; it might well be less difficult to modify vending machines etc. if the only changes were in the colo[u]rs of the notes.

A good number of 'ifs' and 'probably's in there, I know - so my second point would be that all these kinds of tasks do not necessarily hurt the economy - after all, they provide jobs, circulate money, spread wealth.

Besides which, half of the things that you describe are the kinds of things that *need* to be replaced on a regular basis anyhow, and that *are* redesigned on an equally regular basis due to developments in technology (both of the manufacturers and of the counterfeiters).

And yes, you need to look at the numbers printed on the bill. That's part of my point.

Re:It is about time.

[alienmole]

Perhaps you can evaluate a society by how artistic their currency is.

No, actually, you can't. But you can evaluate people by how illogical their arguments are.

Re:No more green OR pennies

[captain_craptacular]

Actually I bet compainies would be more likely to round down. It's absolutely amazing how many people equate $39.99 with $30 rather than $40. I bet they would rather round to $39.95 than an even $40 just to keep the suckers in check.

How about disabled people? Or security?

[mindriot]

Apparently, with both size and color the same, foreigners have a hard time differenciating between the bills.

Hmm, the foreigners are not really the problem. Ask blind people, they're the ones who have trouble with the bills. The European Central Bank had the Euro bills and coins designed in a way that makes them usable for the visually impaired as well (different sizes, contrasting colors, relief printing, different coin edges).

Most definitely, it's time for the US to do something about those lousy bank notes (yes I know, most tender is plastic cards anyway). Maybe taking a look overseas could occasionally help (considering that, for example, Germany had most of those features for almost ten years)...

</rant>

I'm still waiting for golden dollars to reappear

[mblase]

Yeah, remember those things? The
Sacajawea dollar coins that were supposed to be in use everywhere by now, except that people kept pulling magpies and stashing them away in socks without ever actually spending them, just like the Susan B. Anthony dollars before them.

Americans may or may not have noticed that the $1 bill is the only one that hasn't been redesigned with the larger off-center portraits, and it never will. It wasn't "officially" planned that the dollar coin would replace the dollar bill, but clearly that was the hope.

I want them back, and I want them everywhere. I want to be able to stick them into soda machines instead of having to carry around four times as many heavy quarters. I want them worse than I want to be able to tell my paper bills apart by glancing at the color, because dammit, they're so convenient. But the Mint seems to refuse to produce any more, and nobody but me wants to spend the ones they get at the Post Office.

Sadly, the Mint seems slow to respond to new ideas. Much like the rest of any given federal government, I suppose.

I suppose I spoke too soon...

[mblase]

According to the U.S. Mint catalog, golden dollars are still being produced every year. (Had me fooled. I honestly haven't seen one in a store since 2000.)

When in Rome...

[CoreyG]

So somebody thinks it's easier to get the entire US population to adapt to colored money than it is to get a relatively few amount of foreigners to adapt to numerically differentiated money? That's a good idea.
Maybe we should change all our road signs to something non-English to make it easier for the foreigners, after all, they're not used to road signs written in a non-native language.
And what happens when some foreigner mistakes a Blue US $20 for a Blue French $.001? What's the solution to that one? Put numbers on the bill, like they have now? Double check with what bill you're paying? Actually read the denomination on the bill? What a novel idea...

I agree

[Tranvisor]

I for one agree that the greenback has a tremendously strong brand identity arond the world. Pick 20 countries at random and show people on the street a dollar, a euro, a pound, and a yen and see which one of those currencies gets recognised more then any other. My money's on the dollar.

Changing the US currency's color is a change so radical, it would be like Coke deciding to change the color of its 2-Liters Blue, 24-packs Green, 1-Liters Purple, and leaving the cans red.

Would it help out tourists? Of course it would. But last time I checked, foreign investors spend a hell of a lot more money then a german family that comes to see the statue of liberty for a week.

Re:I agree

[Bake]

Well, at least with Coke, they don't have 2 litre bottles for everything, i.e. everything from the volume of a small can up to a 2 litre bottle.

You're all missing the point.

[drsquare]

Let's compare the advantages and disadvantages of money of different colours and sizes:

Advantages:

Vastly more efficient recognition of denominations.

Easier to use for the poor-sighted.

Denominations can be recognised at a distance by merely a brief glance.

Disadvantages:

It's what everyone's used to.

The advantages vastly outweigh the disadvantages. And I'm sorry, but calling everyone stupid for not wanting to stop and read every single note does not count as an argument against the coloured notes.

Re:Criticism of foreigners unwarranted?

[cryptochrome]

Wouldn't a "fake" $20 bill cost $21 to make, plus adhesive then?

I saw something...

[cr0sh]

The way it looked was like it was one of those ultra-kooky conspiracy things...

Anyhow, it was something about how the new bills will be called something else (instead of a US Dollar, it will be US Currency), and that it was only to be used inside the US, not outside.

Sounded crazy...

But given all the other TONS, AND TONS OF FUNKY SHIT - the DMCA, CCDBTA (sp?), USA Patriot Act, recent events - does it not seem like something possible?

Why do I have this impending feeling of gloom and doom - like some MAJOR SHIT is happenning, that very few are paying attention to, that Americans in general, and the world maybe, are ignoring - like we are sliding into a "Brave New World"/"1984" REAL DYSTOPIA - but in a way no one seems to care? I have this VERY REAL FEAR that I am going to "wake up" and cry "WHAT HAPPENED! WHERE DID MY LIFE GO!" - all to the sound of others screaming the same...

Re:It makes sense...

[Yunzil]

United States coins come in denominations of 25, 10, 5, 1 cents... 25 being the largest coin, followed by 5, 1, then 10. If that's not confusing enough,

Well, in England, it goes (I think) 50p, 2p, 10p, pound, 20p, 1p, 5p. Not to mention that the 50p and 20p coins are seven-sided mutants. :)

counterfeit

[Cryptnotic]

It is very common to find what are known as "raised notes", legitimate bills which have been modified to look like higher-denomination bills. If a clerk, customer or foreign tourist isn't paying attention, they may receive these types of bills. There is
a page on the Secret Service web page about these type of counterfeit bills. Switching to different sized and different color bills would eliminate this type of fraud.

Re:With the euro approching 1 dollar

[ackthpt]

Up to about 100 years ago this was pretty much the case, they were silver coins, about 90% pure, and refered to as Crowns (at least to english speakers.) An ounce of Silver was an ounce of silver, wherever you went. Merchants in southeast Asia countermarked or "chop marked" coins to guard against counterfeits. The coin of the world for a considerable time was the spanish 8 (ocho) Reales. (Follow the link to learn a little more) Following WW II the crowns of the world were pretty much replaced by paper money, getting away from the problems of fluctuating silver prices, but creating exchange headaches for everyone. Now there Euro and the US $ being employed as the currency of other countries.

I know how much you have!

[xee]

Now whenever you open your wallet a single glance will be all that is required to count your cash. That goes for you and me both. So I'll know how much you have. Yet another privacy denied.

Re:Did I miss something?

[AnotherBlackHat]

Yeah, the Sacagawea $1 coin is still made. You can even buy them by the sack if you want. The old Susan B. Anthony dollars, which looked a lot like quarters, are still circulated but haven't been made since 1981.

Close, but actually the Susan B. was reissued in 1999. The story I heard was that a subway system used them as tokens, and they need more. But the Mint couldn't make Squawbucks until 2000, so they had to bring back the Susan B Anthony for one year.

Most US post offices have vending machines that both accept and make change in dollar coins.
You can still pick up 1999 Susans that way. Unless you use the same post office I do...

Banks usually have Sacagaweas available. They come in a roll of 25, but they'll give you as many as you want
(within reason, and assuming they have them)
Just ask the teller for some.

Coins

[Jordy]

I'm surprised the idea of changing our coins hasn't come up. The US doesn't print arabic numerals on their coins, but instead force people to read:

One Cent
Five Cents
One Dime
Quarter Dollar

The dime in particular probably doesn't make much sense to people outside the US.

Re:Australian 'bills' - Urban Myth

[Large Green Mallard]

Urban myth.

The Polymer that the notes were printed on was developed by a government body called CSIRO - Commenwealth Science and Information Research Organisation. Interesting story I read in an Australian Coin and Banknote magazine about how they initially tested their plastic (polymer) notes. CSIRO's research facility had a lot of $7 notes printed up for use internally.

Polymer banknotes do wear out eventually, however more commonly they are removed from circulation because the ink rubs off as they bend. I used to work in a supermarket, and collect banknotes, so I kept an eye on them. We would regularlly have $5 notes (our most common note) in circulation for 5 years, and many longer. In my wallet right now I have a 1996 $20, 1998 and 2001 $5 and a 1999 $50.

Banks use a low heat to flatten them out when they get them, since the polymer does hold creases and bends

In "God" we trust

[coljac]

Maybe they can take the opportunity to remove the ridiculous and unconstitutional "In God We Trust" motto that has plagued the notes since 1957.

Colored money?

[OrangeHairMan]

Well some colors that are on the paper money in certian countries are just obsurd. To quote one Simpsons episode, about Latin American money: "Our paper money is so gay." I hope the US won't have to stoop that low. ;)

Orange

Australians Use Plastic...

[AcidDan]

We ditched our paper currency quite a number of years ago, now we have bills made from a pseudo-plastic compound. Sure our currency is coloured but the best anti-couterfeit measures are:

1) it's not paper
2) items such as transparent sections of the note

If the US go throug with this change it will be great! Even if they don't bother with a colour change, they should at least look at making the notes out of a meterial other than paper.

Trust me:- No more accidentally leaving a 10er in the pocket of your pants and discovering it a mushy ball after they go through the wash...

-- Dan =)

Not so good...

[westies-from-hell]

..if you're color-blind.

"Wait, was that a $20...or a $2...?"

Subtle colors don't do well with me, and I imagine that, unless we start having Peter Max design our money, the colors are going to lean more towards the pastel end of the spectrum.

ObCanadian: I'm married to a Canadian, and I hear this rant about the mono-chromatic money *all* the time. To me, Canadian money looks like I should be using it to put houses on Park Place....

...worth about as much, too... :-)

wish they'd be a little more radical...

[Compay]

I hate the choices they made about who and what to put on US currency. Why do we have to have all politicians and images of government buildings on our currency? What about artists, scientists, and people who have made important contributions to US and world culture? What about national parks and beautiful non-governmental buildings? Why the hell do we still have Andrew "Indian killer" Jackson (the president responsible for the Cherokee trail of tears) on our 20 dollar bill? Why is Alexander Hamilton on the 10 dollar bill?

Here are some of the people and things I'd love to see on there instead of what we've currently got:

• the Grand Canyon, Monument Valley or Mt. Ranier
• the Statue of Liberty or the Golden Gate Bridge
• Martin Luther King or Harriet Tubman
• Edgar Allen Poe, Mark Twain, Walt Whitman or John Muir
• Duke Ellington, Aaron Copland or John Coltrane
• beautiful birds like the Eastern Bluebird or the Great Blue Heron (OK, I know we've already got the Bald Eagle)

Imagine a beautiful full color panorama of the Grand Canyon on the back of a 20 instead of the White House... wouldn't that be nicer?

The list could go on and on and on... but those are just a few ideas I've had ever since they did the first redesign in the 90's. I guess the US government is too busy trying to create an image of grandeur to actually use symbols that come from the country's cultute and natural heritage.

Don't get me wrong, I think it would be OK to leave guys like Washington and Jefferson on there - they are some of the founders of the country and deserve to be represented. But having some more focus on culture as opposed to government as the things symbolic of our country would be nice. You know, "of the people, by the people, for the people..."

Re:wish they'd be a little more radical...

[Edmund Blackadder]

Well old presidents are safe. There isnt much complaint about people like Lincoln, Washington etc. But when you get into culture things get tricky. Having Mark Twain on our money would be great as a representation of what America has given to the world, but once we put Mark Twain on our money some people will start insisting on some more divisive or just bad choices. For example religous leaders will come up. Some more questionable writers will come up. Remember the stamps? It started out with putting great americans on our stamps and then things devolved into bad singers and cheesy actors. And its easy not to use certain stamps but not using certain banknotes could be a bitch.

I don't have trouble with small bills but...

[Eric Damron]

I think I need practice with really large denomination bills. If the government would just send me a bag full of VERY large denomination bills I could willing to practice.

Nope

[epepke]

I would love it if our money were prettier. However, it seems to me that this idea comes across every few years, and nothing ever comes of it. The new 20's were supposed to be in color, and then they decided not to do it. Ho hum.

You do have to admit, though, that it's pretty stupid to say that foreigners would be able to differentiate our money better if it were in color. Even if it were in color, it would be in a different color code from what they're used to.

Re:Nope

[CProgrammer98]

The point is that it's much easier to distinguish between a big blue rectangle of paper and a big green rectangle of paper than it is to flick through the stash of notes looking for a 5 or a 10. You will quickly learn that blue means 5 and green means 10 or whatever. Here in the UK, and I guess in mosty of europe, we simply don't look at the numbers. Heck, I couldn't even tell you whete the "5" is on a 5 pound note, I just know it's the "blue" note. We do all our counting by colour, it's so much simpler!

so who sets the color code?

[frovingslosh]

What a stupid idea, make the money even more like play money to supposedly suit foreigners. I just don't buy it. Sure, I've seen different colored money in other countries, but I certainly never learned their color code, I looked at the numbers on the bills. Has the new world order standardized the color code for money, or will this just lead to more problems? How many foreigners, not competent enough to read the numbers on the bills are going to be thinking in terms of our color code, rather than their own? We're just inviting problems when we encourage foreigners to use a color code, then someone is sure to accuse us that we deliberately cheated them because they didn't realize that our bills are not valued in the same order as their bills.

backwards compatible for vending

[asv108]

If they every change lower denoomination bills, it will meet a lot of resistance amongst the vending community unless these notes will work with the current standard dollar bill acceptors. Given the many failures of the reintroduction of new currency in the past, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a major public backlash against the new notes.

Cash counting problems

[drunkahol]

Having same colour and same size notes actually costs the US billions in extra cash counting.

Notes have to be sorted first to ensure that a bundle is all 10's for example. In Europe, if a 100 is slipped in by mistake, the counting machine will stop because the note is a different size. In the US, the 100 will get counted as a 10 (or vice versa). Hence fewer mistakes and less sorting time for the coloured and different size notes.

If you want to go ahead pissing money down the drain - be my guest. But don't go all superior and claim we can't read numbers. I can - but poor sighted (not blind) people from anywhere in the world can have problems telling the difference between 10 & 20 dollar bills.

Re:Cash counting problems

[mosch]

actually you're wrong. (imagine that, somebody spewing falsehoods on slapdash.org)

american currancy counting machines can tell what the note is, and do some counterfeit checking, on the fly. easiest way is the little metal strip (which fluoresces under blacklight) is in a different spot on 100s, 50s, 20s, 10s and 5s. Of course, there are a lot of less easy ways around too, since if that was all that got checked, banks would regularly get 2 inch stacks of $50s that only include $100 of real cash.

Re:Cash counting problems

[Arandir]

but poor sighted (not blind) people from anywhere in the world can have problems telling the difference between 10 & 20 dollar bills.

Short sighted people will have no problem. They're *short* sighted. Just hold the note closer to your nose. Color isn't going to help color blind people at all. And color blindness is very common.

Frankly, I don't see where the problem is. Europeans and Asians aren't confused by the monochrome quality of US currency, they are confused by a different values of the currency! A "10" in the US is different than a "10" in Mexico which is different than a "10" in Germany which is different than a "10" in Thailand...

Wouldn't it be wonderful if the US used the same color for 10 Dollar bills that England used for 10 Pound notes? I could retire in a week!

Re:Cash counting problems

[jedrek]

Europeans and Asians aren't confused by the monochrome quality of US currency, they are confused by a different values of the currency! A "10" in the US is different than a "10" in Mexico which is different than a "10" in Germany which is different than a "10" in Thailand...

That's a cheap shot and it's totally wrong. Most europeans and asians that I know that travel can convert currency in their head, on the fly. Euros to dollars to yen to pesos like that (snaps fingers). On the other hand, most of the american tourists I meet when moving around europe are paralyzed by the thought that they have to use something other than american dollars. It's usually John and Martha from Nebraska, not Hans and Anna, who are confused that their $10 is not 10E or 10GBP.

Re:Cash counting problems

[Arandir]

And thus the trap is sprung! Hans and Anna, who can convert exchange rates in their heads, know that 10 Fumarks equals 23 Barchmas smugly pull light blue pieces of paper from their wallet with which to tip the porter. Unfortunately in Fredonia a light blue is the color for a 100 Fumark note...

I believe one of the orginal premises of this whole article was that colored currency will make it easier for foreign visitors to use US currency. But that will not be the case unless the entire world standardized on particular colors for particular currency units. And that ain't going to happen.

p.s. The reason that Hans and Anna can convert currency in their heads is probably because they've travelled to other countries more often than John and Martha. The nation density in Europe is higher in the US, which makes it much easier and cheaper for Europeans to visit other nations. John and Martha have to schedule vacation time and make plans to visit Mexico or Canada, but Hans and Martha can probably go visit another country spontaneously over the weekend, and sometimes even just for an evening.

Re:LIARS!!!!!

[xyzzy]

Right, but inflation is an economic thing, not a government thing. The government plays a part in that (perhaps by spending a lot of money it doesn't have in the form of bonds), but they can not control it -- I'm sure they wish they would.

As the previous poster pointed out, I was really wrong in my description of the various metal standards. However, I'm not sure I'd call leaving the gold/silver standard "devaluation". And I certainly wouldn't say that the average inflation rate we've had, even taking into account the 70s, is huge. Yes, you can't buy a candy bar for a nickel any more, but you can also talk for a minute from Boston to California.

Re:Hmmm...Bryant wouldn't have been pleased

[xyzzy]

Yup, you're right (blush). Although, interestingly enough, it took me quite a while to find out *how much* silver you could get for your one dollar silver cert. The answer is obvious: the amount contained in one silver dollar! (how much that is, I dunno, but that's apparently the answer).

OT: Is there any reason I can't find the parent of both of our posts on the main page for this discussion, even at -1????

The best currency denominations

[martyn s]

The best currency denominations are ones based on powers of 3. See theres a trinary number system, that instead of having the values 0,1,2, it has the values -1,0,1. This is called balanced ternary. I know it sounds weird, but it works out. This number system accurately represents the way we pay for money: if we want to pay 3 dollars we can pay 5 and get 2 back.

So the best system is based on the denominations 1,3,9,27,81 etc. This is the most efficient system for doling out change to pay an exact amount.

Think of it this way. There is a riddle which goes like this: if you have a two pan balance and you want to weigh an object (integral weight) with the fewest number of counter weights, which counterweights would you need? There answer is 1,3,9,27, etc. If you want to measure 14, you put down a 27 on one side, and put down a 9, 3 and a 1 on the side with the object you're weighing.

So you only need one of each bill to pay *any* amount exactly. So let's say you want to pay 14 dollars. You give 27, and you get back a 9, 3, and a 1. This works for ALL values.

see American Scientist: Third Base

Re:The best currency denominations

[martyn s]

Well yes, but with the system we currently have, we need more than just one of each denomination.

Yeah, and

[Cardhore]

let's get rid of English, even though it's not even American, because that language is way too hard for foreigners to understand.

it's not paper.

[rebelcool]

it's actually a form of very stiff linen. I believe the actual composition and process for making it is a secret, but its not 'paper' in the usual sense.

You can wash a bill many times before it becomes unusable. they're designed that way.

Not worth a Continental...

[FortranDragon]

How many folks remember that phrase? Some of you younger people might not recall it, but I'm of a generation that does. The memory of _bad_ money is long, *very* long. The greenback (US Dollar) means something because its stability was a consequence of the worthless Continental. No one wanted to repeat that mistake again.

So, yeah, I do think that brand awareness plays a part in US currency. The current green-colored bills mean something to people. It is peoples' belief in a currency that is what sustains it. If the average US citizen starts viewing the NextGen bills as 'Monopoly' money or funny money it will be doomed at a currency.

The Fed knows this so they'll work long and hard to try to convince people that the bills are 'ok'. They have the recent redesign going for them, I think. People have a fresh memory of a change so possible resistance to another change might work.

Oh, on the counterfeiting reason for the change, I find it interesting that in past years the reason the Fed gave for not introducing color was that it was supposedly *easier* to counterfeit color bills. People looked at the color and not the denomination, whereas with ours people checked that actual bill. (Also, printing up some bills on your printer won't work. Greenbacks are cloth, not paper, and won't literally feel right.)

Finally, as far as the problem with checking the denominations go, just do what I do: perform an insertion sort. ;-) I sort my bills front to back, smallest to largest denomination. I can just as quickly check the denominations I have as I could looking at the colors. Since I never carry more that $20 - $30 in my wallet my search time is effective nil. :-D (Yeah, yeah, it is anal method, but at least I don't have to think about the various bills in my wallet.)

plastic money

[leastsquares]

In Scotland, there was a trial with credit card-like replacements for each bill (or each note, as it is called in Britian). I thought it was great - perfectly washable -- for example, I could take my wallet kayaking and not care about getting it wet.

Unfortunately, everyone else hated the idea, so it was dropped.

Hey! That's like..

[SteelX]

..O'Reilly money!

Traffic lights

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

1) Imaging if traffic lights were all green, and had "Stop", "Stop if you can", "Go". Automaticly, it is harder to tell that the traffic light is telling you, no matter how intelligent you are.
Different coloured notes have got nothing to do with people who can't read. It's to do with making it even easier to recognize a note. It's a fact, anyone denying this dosn't know what they're talking about.
And why do stupid people deserve to have their money stolen? Or are you just trying to argue with a stupid point?

2) When I think of the USA, the colour of the notes are the last thing I think of. Sure, if you see a note, it's easly recognised are a cliche US note, but power and pride of the US economy don't spring to mind....Just a US note. I doubt the enconomy would suffer if the US changed their colour scheme. Hell, not big shots/coporates/stock markets/govenments deal with cash anymore anyway. It's all stocks, electronic cash and other stuff I know nothing about.

Re:No more bills

[Vegeta99]

I'll tell you what, i'm gonna be PISSED when some asshole snatches up the $5 coin I just dropped. Fuck that. I hate the $1 coins. They're too much like a quarter. It's fine the way it is (eliminate quarters)

It is not ''difficult''

[Tom7]

Of course it's true that adding color makes it *easier* to distinguish bills, I have to contend with your statement that american bills are "difficult" to distinguish between. I have never, ever, squinted or got out my magnifying glass to try to tell them apart, or asked for help from the cashier. I've never asked for someone to wait up while I compare all the bills in my wallet to see if I can find the twenty. That, to me, means it is not "difficult". In fact, I'd say it is easy to simply look at the big numbers in the corner or the new big portraits to tell what denomination it is. Yes, it could be somewhat easier with colors, but that comes at a cost of altering tradition (and you know how Americans love their money!). As an actual American, I do prefer the tradition over the minor convenience.

Re:It is not ''difficult''

[Tom7]

> You are resisting _real, tangible, and easy improvement_ because of _tradition_ and
> because you are unwilling to change what you grew up with, "It works swell now dammit, I
> don't need no hard disk, floppies do all I need!". That is what this boils down to.

No, I'm resisting a minor improvement to something that's already easy. Would I like it if my keyboard was also color-coded to make typing easier? The arms of my t-shirt color-coded to make it easier to tell front from back? There are plenty of easy things that can be made easier, but if they mean making the things ugly too, then I am probably not for it. If they do want to make a *real* difference, like dispensing with cash to make way for electronic money, getting rid of the penny, etc. then I am all for it. It's just a matter of weighing the pros versus the cons.

Also, as others have pointed out, this is not necessarily "easy"; consider for instance the tens of thousands of automatic bill changers around the US.

Get rid of the penny

[Goonie]

While you're printing numbers on the little beggars, could you do away with the penny? It's just a wallet-filler; you can't buy anything with it. Australia did away with one and two cent pieces years ago and we don't miss them.

And, while you're at it, fix up your bloody immigration form you fill out on the plane to take a short trip to the States. As well as asking whether I was involved in the Jewish Holocaust (well, no, but I killed a few hundred Tutsis in Rwanda and the odd dozen Bosnians, but I suppose that's OK), it asks whether I had "committed any crimes of moral turpitude" (can I call my lawyer to determine whether killing Tutsis and Bosnians is a crime of moral turpitude? I don't feel in the least guilty about it, and given the last question it doesn't seem like the US is too cut up about it).

Re:Get rid of the penny

[UncleFluffy]

And, while you're at it, fix up your bloody immigration form you fill out on the plane to take a short trip to the States.

LOL

The one that always got me on the visa waiver form was the one that went "Are you here to commit an act of terrorism ? [ ] Yes [ ] No"

(For the US citizens amongst you, yes, I am serious, there was/is a form that all foreigners entering the country without a visa had to fill in that contained the above multiple-choice question)

Re:What about coins ?

[Edmund Blackadder]

I agree.

When i first came to america long time ago, when i first went into scool they gave me a test designed to check if i was able to function in american society (to see whether i needed special classes). I felt pretty confident, knowing english well and all, but at one point they gave me a sheet with pictures of coins, and asked me which ones i should use to make 1.52. Well i spent ten minutes looking for numbers and after that i declared that there was something wrong with those coins :).

But I dont think thats of much concern for the US govt. Unfortunately i dont think they care much about immigrants that need to count their change.

They do care about foreigners using us dollars for trade and investment, and those people mostly use large notes. I read somewhere that the hundred dollar note is the most used us banknote abroad.

Old money.

[BrookHarty]

If your interested in seeing what the money of the past looks like, found a good url. http://www.frbsf.org/currency/bills.html
A 1776 1 3rd dollar. 33.3333333 cents. lol

Hi, are you a moron?

[Inoshiro]

Ever driven a CAR? Ever noticed how signs don't come in uniform shapes and colours, only differentiated by the WORDS on them?

No, you haven't noticed that -- because colours are the most intuitive and fastest way of humans differentiating between several distinct objects. Ever tried to say what colour something spelt when the words were in another colour? You probably didn't do 100% because of that same fact.

That's why Canadians, Britons, Austrialians, etc, etc, etc, etc, .. basically everyone except the US (which, I note, also rejects the metric system) has been holding on to its quant "old" money while other countries have made their bills easy to differentiate, and harder to counterfeit.

OT: How much longer will we use paper money?

[alumshubby]

Given the increasing proportion of money velocity that happens electronically rather than the old-fashioned way (promissory notes, letters of credit, checks, paper currency and coins), I wonder how long it'll be before modern governments start phasing out non-electronic transactions entirely and start posting all buying, selling and lending against databases under control of their banking and finance authorities.

I seem to recall a passing reference in a short story of William Gibson's -- might have been "Johnny Mnemonic"? -- to the idea that paper currency might actually become illegal. Certainly it would be easier for the US to implement this in the guise of making us all safer from terrorism by allowing the Powers That Be to track every transaction. The IRS would love to make the underground economy suddenly 100% taxable, I'm sure. To the extent that it would aid in the War On (Some) Drugs, it's probably further desirable to certain folks.

In parting, here's a musing by Neal Stephenson about the very subject of electronic currency: his short story "The Great Simoleon Caper", a sort of a free-software take on the idea.

Mod away....

[Riplakish]

This is not a troll, but it probably is flame-bait, but wtf.

[sarcasm on]
It really is hard to tell our paper currency apart, what with the denominations printed in about 10 - 15 places on each bill. And they sure are hard to counterfeit, what with the 6 or more obvious counter-measures, and the 6 or so non-obvious counter-measures in each bill.
[sarcasm off]

I LIKE our money the way it is. I don't want money that looks like a rainbow shit on it. If foreigners can't take the time to learn the denominations of one of the hardest currencies in the world, then fuck'em.

It would make it easier

[sharkey]

Just shell out a few bucks for Monopoly, then visit the local Stop'N'Go, rather than having to go to the trouble of putting Dubya's face on a self-printed $200 bill.

Yes and no

[Goonie]

Yes, it's a private company, Note Printing Australia. They also produce banknotes for a bunch of other countries right here in Oz.

It's very much still in business.

Re:Yes and no

[Mandelbrute]

Yes, it's a private company

No, it's a "corporatised" group entirely owned by the government. These organisations used to be called "Qangos" and now they are called government corporations. It has something to do with making treasury figures look good, changing the "culture" of the public service organisations, and being able to keep blame at arms length. Australia is full of enormous numbers of these organisations. I used to work for a group called "Austa Electric" which was entirely owned and controlled by a state government. It even had shares for some reason, despite only having a single shareholder.

So in short, look at the website and you'll see some fine print somewhere about it being 100% government owned.

Re: Systems of measure

[UncleFluffy]

even England no longer uses it

We only use it for the important stuff. Beer is still served in (20floz) pints.

try printing transparent holograms on your inkjet

[DABANSHEE]

The Oz mint makes polymer currency, complete with a hologram encrusted window, for Australia, Thailand, Papua New Guinea, Sri Lanka, Malaysia, Singapore, Brunei, Indonesia, Kuwait, Western Samoa, New Zealand and Romania.

The polymer sheeting is made from in a huge complex where balloons with about the same volume as a WWII aircraft carrier, or something, are blown out from melted polymer in a huge complex. I read a good article on the process in the Sydney Morning Herald's Good Weekend section about a year ago.

Here's some links

Oz Dept of Foriegn Affairs 'n Trade

Note Printing Australia

ABC News (the US ABC that is)

Another ABC page

Oz Reserve Bank currency page

Securency PTY LTD

Currency 'how are they made?' page

RBA Polymer page

Bullshit.

[Rhinobird]

I CAN read the numbers, but having all the money be the same colour (notice my Canadian spelling?) makes it difficult for QUICK recognition.

I have NO DIFFICULTY telling the difference between the different denominations of US currency. However, when I was in Europe, all the flipping colors on the currency just ran together for me, and I was using the corners of the bills just like in the US anyway...only it was harder because many currencies had the number in just one corner.

You forgot to mention the feel of the bill

[Rhinobird]

I used to be a cashier and after handling money all day you know what money is supposed to feel like. When someone hands you a counter fit it doesn't FEEL right, then you look at the bill funny, then you look at it carefully, then swipe it with that pen thingie. But it all starts with how the bill feels...and I like how our money feels.

Re:Coloured Just Like Canadian Money...

[phillymjs]

That was the first thing I thought when I heard this, remembering the weekend I spent in Toronto chuckling every time I opened my wallet to pay for something. I don't want money that looks like it came from a Monopoly set. And at that particular time, Canadian money was worth about as much as Monopoly money-- I think I turned US$300 into damn near CDN$500.

If people are unable to differentiate denominations, screw 'em-- learn how or be gypped out of your cash. Why must we continually dumb down everything about our society? I was raised to live in a world where intelligence was rewarded and ignorance was its own punishment. Now everyone bends over backwards to cater to the lazy and stupid, and I feel like I wasted the first two decades of my life growing my intellect. I could've just been watching NASCAR and pro wrestling on TV, eating pork rinds and drinking beer all that time like everyone else, and just had the government fix everything for me when it became evident I was too dumb to function in society,

The way things are going, I guess they'll take care of the problem of illiteracy by just outlawing books and writing.

~Philly

Re:Foreigners are STUPID

[rice_burners_suck]

Let me tell you something, you STUPID FUCK who moderated me "flamebait"... People outside of this wonderful country think they're so damn smart. They laugh at the United States and think we don't have any common sense or whatever. And yet, when they enter this country, they have trouble differentiating between cash bills that have the God-flippin' amounts written in numeral notation in four places, on both sides of the bill, along with the amount spelled out in English once on each side. *T*H*A*T* *M*E*A*N*S* *T*H*E* *V*A*L*U*E* *I*S* *S*P*E*L*L*E*D* *O*U*T* *I*N* *T*E*N* *P*L*A*C*E*S* *O*N* *E*A*C*H* *B*I*L*L*! If that's not enough to make it quite clear what each bill is, then THOSE FOREIGNERS ARE STUPID PEOPLE, and like I said, THEY SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED INTO this COUNTRY!!!!! We're not a bunch of stupid people! We're Americans, and that means we don't need to color-code all our shit like a bunch of kindergardners, damn it!

For two hundred of the Lord's years , the citizens of the United States of America, the most wonderful country in the world, have had NO trouble whatsoever in differentiating between the bills. I don't understand the difficulty! It's like those idiot foreigners who put on their RIGHT turn signal and then turn LEFT. What's the difficulty here?

I'll tell you EXACTLY what the difficulty is: THEY ARE STUPID PEOPLE!

Oh well. I'm obviously pissed off. I'll need to drink some Negra Modelo. It's Mexican beer, as opposed to immitation beer. (All beers that are not Mexican are immitation. Likewise for all food, all girls, and all El Caminos.)

Oh yeah, and I do agree with whoever that is who's sig goes something along the lines of "having a lameness filter on slashcrack is like having a shit filter on your ass." Why the fuck do you need a lameness filter on slashcrack anyway? FUCK lameness filters! In case you think my usage of the word FUCK is excessive, perhaps you should do a bit of research on your own and take a gander at the content indicated by the following uniform resource locator: http://justin.justnet.com.au/rudestuff/uses-of-the -word-fuck.html. And if you CHOOSE not to be bustin no ganders over there, then that'z Joe's problem. (Joe who? Joe-momma!)

Ooooooooh well. Time for more BOOZE. It's FRIDAY!!!)

The Most Successfully Counterfeited in the World

[shoemakc]

I mean you think they would be embarassed to be the most successfully counterfeited currency in the world.

Given...The US is behind compared to other countries in counterfeiting measures. However is it merely coincidence that American currency is also one of the strongest and most universaly accepted in the world?

Think about it...let's assume for a momment that it was equaly easy to counterfiet all currency....would you be printing up pesos, francs, or US dollars?

There's a good chance that even with improved anti-counterfeiting measures, US currency would remain the most successfully counterfeited in the world simply due to it's liquidity.

-Chris

Re:No more green OR pennies

[ncc74656]

To phase out the penny, Kolbe said, cash transactions would be rounded up or down a nickel over a transition period before removing it from circulation. But Americans for Common Cents (ACC), a group dedicated to keeping the penny, said Kolbe's rounding proposal would hurt Americans, particularly the poor, because companies would round in their favor.

BXes, commissaries, and other retail outlets at military bases overseas haven't used pennies since at least the mid-80s...maybe earlier. When my parents returned from Germany in 2000, they had to start dealing with pennies again and didn't care much for them. There is a definition for rounding...if the price ends in 1, 2, 6, or 7, you round down, while if it ends in 3, 4, 8, or 9, you round up. In the long run, it all averages out. ACC sounds like some crank Naderite group that bashes anyone who has a dollar more than they do.

FWIW, it doesn't matter too much to me whether the penny stays or goes. I tend to get rid of them shortly after I get them, usually by throwing a few into the purchase to get quarters/nickels/dimes back and to see if I can confuse the minimum-wage clerk behind the counter ("The total is $2.87, so why did he give me $3.12?").

Re:No more green OR pennies

[ncc74656]

whoever heard of a 'gold dollar' though. those things are terrible. I lent a buddy of mine a couple bucks a few weeks back, and he tried to pay me back in gold dollars. I wouldn't take the damn things.

Where are they circulating? I've never even seen one out here. Postal vending machines give out SBA dollars (which I get rid of ASAP...dollar coins as a replacement for bills are ghey), and I've seen more than a few $2 bills, but the new gold-colored dollar coins apparently haven't made their way westward.

(They could be worse...they could be like British £1 coins, which are about the size of two nickels stacked together. A small number of those will weigh your wallet down pretty badly.)

Re:RFID tags

[commodoresloat]

I definitely heard this too, also from a sketchy type. Thing was, this dude had collected every strip he could tear out of a bill (recirculating the bills), and this was about 6 or 7 years ago, when very few bills had these things to my knowledge. He had stacks of little strips and was talking about how he was going to collect thousands of dollars worth and walk through customs somewhere with these in a piece of wadded up paper, just to see if it sets off an alarm. I don't understand why someone would want to provoke the search that would ensue, but even more sad, I doubt this guy ever made enough money to get enough strips to ever set off the alarm in any airport anywhere....

The Color of magic^w money

[darkonc]

Makes sense. As a 'merkin, you'd never be trained to recognize money by color. In the US, that's an entirely useless talent.

Let's see now.. It's green, so It must be a $1, $2, $5, $10, $20, $50, $100 or $1000. Boy oh boy, that narrows it down bigtime!

In a few years time, though, the idea of recognizing bills by color will be commonplace in the States.

Re:No more green OR pennies

[ksheff]

I'm dead certain that banks will start charging per transaction or charge fees for the cards monthly

They already do that. I get a monthly fee for having a debit card and businesses are charged a fee for every debit or credit transaction and when they deposit a check. Surprisingly, the most costly form of payment for a business to accept from customers is cash. It has to be counted at the end of the day, an armored car company has to be paid for regular pick up/drop off, dishonest clerks can easily steal it, dumb ones can easily give out the wrong amount, etc.

Planning for the merge

[jdfox]

For the same reasons that the Euro was floated at a rate to settle very near 1 Euro = 1 Dollar, I predict the new dollar colours will be matched to Euro colours.

Then they can merge the two currencies with ease, when the EU merges with NAFTA.

Re:Hint: OPEN the wallet

[ksheff]

I've heard this argument over and over again. How in the hell does having different colored money make it more difficult to counterfeit? Counterfeiters usually stick with the high denominations and may even specialize on a particular one. If that's the case, color isn't going to matter. Someone that's going to try to make a bunch fake 20s isn't going to care what color they are as long as their fakes are a very close match to the official 20. Whether it be green, red, blue, orange, etc. doesn't matter. It does make it harder for a relatively successful counterfeiter from scaling up the operation (ok, we got the paper & ink right for those 5s we test marketed...let's start working on the 50s).

Re:About Time!

[darien]

And I've been in England where the money is in different colors. Except I still can't tell a purple-and-orange 5 from an orange-and-purple 10. Or was it the other way around? Or was it the 20?

In fact the £5 note is bluey-green, the £10 is orangey-bown, the £20 is dark indigo and the £50 is red. I take your point - you still have to get used to knowing which colour is which. But even if you don't know which colour means which value, you can still see easily at a glance how many different sorts of note you're holding, so if you have a wad of twenty bluey-green notes and two reddy-brown ones, you only have to look at two notes, rather than twenty-two, to know what you're carrying.

I'm surprised by the vehemence with which people - exclusively Americans, it seems - are lining up against this idea. Yes, numbers do the job fine, but there are obvious benefits to using colours as well, and I really can't see any harm in
doing so.

A few people have said coloured notes wouldn't help colour-blind people; but they'd certainly be no harder for the colour-blind than the present ones. At any rate, colour-blind people don't just see in black and white; they can normally distinguish between various colours. It shouldn't be too hard to design coloured banknote designs that are easily distinguishable by the majority of colour-blind people too.

I can imagine the difficulty

[hayden]

At a glance, I can't tell the Aussie dollars from the Singapore dollars.

Do you often have trouble telling the difference between paper and plastic? Australian bills are made of plastic.

Re:I can imagine the difficulty

[hayden]

My apologies. Singapore money is also plastic and the reason it looks similar is because it uses the same technology from the Reserve Bank of Australia.

virtual mod: +1 funny

[darkonc]

'nuff said.

Varies by location.

[hearingaid]

I use TD Bank. I've noticed that some branches hand out fifties, while many do not. My perception is that BC branches are more likely to give out fifties than eastern branches, and also more recent branches usually don't keep fifties.

Re:Foreigners are STUPID

[Steve B]

Let me tell you something, you STUPID FUCK who moderated me "flamebait".

I see somebody's new sigline.

Re:Paper money? Why bother

[gerardrj]

For the most part there is no wood (ie trees) in our currency in the U.S. The recipie for the paper is motly cotton. Cotton is most definately an easily renewable resource.