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The Hard Business of Selling Hard Drive Platters

redfieldp writes: "This is a pretty interesting story about the 'last' HD manufacturer in the U.S., and reasons why the industry is ailing ..." There's quite a bit of interesting hard-drive history in here, too.

319 comments

  1. first ANGRY post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Flamebait

    Fuck you all, bastards!

  2. Hyper-linked. by jarodss · · Score: 0, Redundant
    1. Re:Hyper-linked. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      +5 Insightful, because everyone knows that X-Window System clipboard sucks donkey balls.

  3. whoo! by DooBall · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    cool, another typo on slashdot!

    1. Re:whoo! by DooBall · · Score: 1

      oops, the e-mail had the typo... I am an idiot... that's even cooler!

    2. Re:whoo! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      yeah!

    3. Re:whoo! by MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM · · Score: -1

      Please stop talking to yourself, it makes me cry.

  4. a href=timothy by Bingo+Foo · · Score: -1, Redundant

    Nice link there, Tim!

    --
    taken! (by Davidleeroth) Thanks Bingo Foo!
    1. Re:a href=timothy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      Some serious smokin' and drinkin' going on around the /. offices tonight, maybe?

    2. Re:a href=timothy by Bingo+Foo · · Score: 0, Offtopic
      Some serious smokin' and drinkin' going on around the /. offices tonight, maybe?

      The moderators too, apparently. The only mod on that post is "Overrated."

      --
      taken! (by Davidleeroth) Thanks Bingo Foo!
  5. Nice Link! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Redundant

    Jesus Christ, preview is there for a reason. One more reason I don't pay for this site:

    writes: "This is a pretty interesting story about http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/01/technology/01KOM A.html> the 'last' HD manufacturer in the U.S., and reasons why the industry is ailing ..." There's quite a bit of interesting hard-drive history in here, too.

    1. Re:Nice Link! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      Funny isn't it? Asking for money but unable to correctly proofread and thinking that things like the Who's bassist dying or Buffy not getting emmy nominations is news.

  6. A one word story? by shepd · · Score: 1

    And its not even english, like the rest of the site. Blech!

    --
    If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
  7. Editors need to wake up by premier · · Score: 1, Funny

    The title uses "Hard Drive", while the editorial text says "Hard-Drive". Pick one?

    1. Re:Editors need to wake up by Mad+Marlin · · Score: 4, Funny
      The title uses "Hard Drive", while the editorial text says "Hard-Drive". Pick one?

      I vote for Winchester disk.

    2. Re:Editors need to wake up by The+Pi-Guy · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      You use "uses", while you also say "says". Pick one?

      . . . Also . . .

      You use "Pick one?", while the rest of the world ends it with an exclamation point or period. Pick one ??!!

      ... Noone's perfect. But a little humor helps.

      --pi

    3. Re:Editors need to wake up by Dr.+Awktagon · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Why do they call it an exclamation point, when it's clearly not a point, but a point and line? I use exclamation mark. To be consistent with question point... er... question mark.. ?

    4. Re:Editors need to wake up by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      It's DASD or nuthin'

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    5. Re:Editors need to wake up by shepd · · Score: 1

      >Why do they call it an exclamation point, when it's clearly not a point, but a point and line?

      That's because ISO calls it a bang.

      --
      If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
    6. Re:Editors need to wake up by shepd · · Score: 1

      >Pick one?

      Sentence fragment.

      "Sentence fragment is a sentence fragment."

      "Oh no! Linguo melting!"

      Or something like that...

      --
      If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
    7. Re:Editors need to wake up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed. "hard-drive platters" would have been the correct English. Mainly because "drive platters" are rather mysterious things which only arise when incorrect English usage is put forth ;)

    8. Re:Editors need to wake up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "bang"? theyre retarded.

    9. Re:Editors need to wake up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I drive platters to the repair shop. I put them in my car. How is that incorrect English?

    10. Re:Editors need to wake up by damien_kane · · Score: 1

      I vote for Winchester rifle...

    11. Re:Editors need to wake up by shepd · · Score: 1

      Did I say ISO...

      Meant normal people.

      --
      If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
    12. Re:Editors need to wake up by Mad+Marlin · · Score: 1
      I vote for Winchester rifle...

      I own Remingtons and Marlins to shoot beer bottles with, but no Winchesters. Any specific recommendations, preferably for larger-calibre rifles?

    13. Re:Editors need to wake up by damien_kane · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      large calibre? get custom-built imported 20mm cannons or better, don't go with American brands. I personally do not know where to find them, here in Canada gun laws are a little more restrictive.

      In light of recent events (the previous year specifically) good luck getting your purchase into the country.

    14. Re:Editors need to wake up by Mad+Marlin · · Score: 2
      large calibre? get custom-built imported 20mm cannons or better, don't go with American brands. I personally do not know where to find them, here in Canada gun laws are a little more restrictive.

      In light of recent events (the previous year specifically) good luck getting your purchase into the country.

      20mm! I said large calibre, but just to avoid hearing about .22LRs. Hell, 20mm is a standard anti-aircraft cannon calibre. I was thinking more along the lines of a .270MAG or .300MAG.

    15. Re:Editors need to wake up by Tassach · · Score: 1

      If you are a traditionalist, there's only one choice: the Winchester 1895. It is arguably the classic American rifle.

      --
      Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
  8. Too bad by jred · · Score: 2

    /. screwed the link, and now everyone is posting a proper link. I just wish they had posted the circumvented link instead of the reg. required one...

    --

    jred
    I'm not a mechanic but I play one in my garage...
    1. Re:Too bad by Eversor · · Score: 3, Informative

      username: slashd0t
      password: slashd0t
      works

    2. Re:Too bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      You mean THIS link?

    3. Re:Too bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

      works

      Not any more, I changed the password!

    4. Re:Too bad by MageNuts · · Score: 0
      Here's the full story for those who don't feel like signing up to the times...

      Advances Nip at Its Heels, but Disk Maker Moves Forward

      By JOHN MARKOFF

      SAN FRANCISCO, June 30 -- In an antiseptic factory in San Jose, Calif., Christopher Bajorek peers at trayloads of mirror-surfaced hard- drive platters as they stream by and contemplates the fact that the disks, which contain almost as much technology as a modern computer chip, sell for less than the cost of a plastic Frisbee.

      "The plastic tray they sell you to carry your drive home is a higher gross- margin product," said Dr. Bajorek, who for many years was a pioneering disk-drive scientist at I.B.M.'s Almaden Research Center and now directs advanced technology research at Komag Inc., which has become the last surviving independent manufacturer of disk-drive platters based in the United States.

      It hasn't been easy. On Monday, Dr. Bajorek's company will announce that it is successfully emerging from Chapter 11 bankruptcy, which the company entered in May 2001.

      "This industry can't seem to get any respect," said James Porter, president of DiskTrend, a market research firm in Mountain View, Calif., that follows the industry. "It's a weird combination of chemistry, electrical engineering and a lot of math. The problem is they just work too well and nobody pays any attention."

      The industry is in ways a victim of its own success.

      In recent years, it has performed the Herculean feat of increasing disk-storage capacity at a rate of 100 percent annually -- almost twice the rate of improvement in the computer chip industry -- only to find that storage demand has grown by only 50 percent a year. The result has been a financial shambles.

      "We left Moore's Law in the dust, and in the process we've become our own worst enemy," Dr. Bajorek said, referring to an observation of Gordon Moore, a co-founder of Intel, that processing power doubles every 18 months.

      That has created a desperate situation that continues to pummel the industry. In June, even I.B.M. became a casualty of the brutal technology wars, announcing that it was selling its disk-drive manufacturing business to Hitachi.

      Like many of Silicon Valley's other high-technology companies, Komag has moved all of its manufacturing operations to Asia and cut its cost structure in half in the last two years. There may finally be a payoff: several analysts said the company's turnaround would soon become more visible with the addition of a prominent new customer.

      Komag's revival is a significant event, in part because during the dot-com mania, which ended last year, basic technology companies were increasingly viewed as dinosaurs in Silicon Valley. Now Komag's reemergence from bankruptcy, with fewer factories and a stronger balance sheet, is an indication that the Valley is returning to its roots, where innovation was seen in terms of electronic and magnetic technologies, and not new business models.

      "Komag has done a wonderful job of getting out of bankruptcy," said Mark Geneen, president of TrendFocus, a market research and consulting firm that follows the information storage industry.

      Dr. Bajorek, who believes the company is now stronger but still in a challenging and competitive industry, compares the situation to "walking through Death Valley -- we hope our canteens have enough water to let us reach the Sierras."

      If Komag ultimately returns to prosperity it will be because its technology, for a long time ignored, has once again become crucial in a computer industry with voracious new storage demands resulting from new low-cost consumer markets ranging from video games and MP3 music players to digital video recorders.

      Indeed, it has largely been the brutally competitive landscape of the disk-drive industry that has made these new consumer applications possible. The amount of data that can be stored on a single disk-drive platter has soared from one gigabyte in 1997 -- enough to store the equivalent of 1,000 hefty novels -- to 40 gigabytes today.

      Since the 5 1/4-inch hard-disk drive was introduced by Seagate Technology in 1980, the industry has increased storage capacity 8,000-fold and improved price per bit of storage by a factor of 40,000.

      Moreover, it is still uncertain whether the rate at which storage density is increasing will slip from the staggering pace of recent years. The industry will introduce 60-gigabyte platters in July, and 80-gigabyte surfaces are expected by the end of the first quarter of 2003. Before the end of next year, Komag will almost certainly be shipping disk platters that can store 120 billion bytes of data each.

      At some point, analysts and industry executives say, the pace of improvement in the industry will inevitably slow down, but those predictions are not new. For most of a decade, the disk-drive industry has defied technology limits as well as what many have viewed as financial common sense.

      The roots of today's disk-drive industry can largely be traced back to work originally done in the 1950's.

      While he was at I.B.M., Dr. Bajorek was a key member of the team of researchers that during the 1970's developed the basic magneto-resistive recording and sensing-head technology that is the basis of modern disk drives. For his contribution, he was awarded the Reynold B. Johnson Information Storage Award by the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers this year.

      Today, a more refined version of the writing and reading heads that descended from Dr. Bajorek's research "fly" over the disk surface at a height of about 150 angstroms (an angstrom is roughly the width of a single hydrogen atom). The tolerances are even more remarkable given that hard disk drives are rapidly becoming a staple of consumer products like Apple Computer's iPod music players, which are handled with little awareness of the delicate machine that stores digital data.

      The surface of the Komag disk itself is composed of nine separate layers that sit on an aluminum platter. The data itself is organized in three layers of nickel phosphorus shielded by two layers of a diamond-like carbon material. Currently, the magnetic ones and zeros are aligned end-to-end in concentric tracks. By 2004, Dr. Bajorek believes, the industry will need to begin stacking the tiny magnetic domains perpendicularly to squeeze them more tightly onto the surface of the disk media.

      Progress in disk-drive storage in recent years has been made by pushing back what the industry refers to as the "superparamagnetic limit," the size at which the magnetic spots are so small that their magnetic fields can no longer be kept stable at room temperature. Last year, I.B.M. announced it had begun to use new materials the company referred to as "pixie dust" to push back the limit.

      In contrast, Dr. Bajorek said Komag had been able to achieve the same densities without resorting to new materials. That will offer a significant cost savings in the next two generations of disk media. "We were blessed with conventional designs that were more thermally stable," he said.

      The company is less blessed in terms of competition. Although Komag is the only remaining independent supplier of disk media in the United States, both I.B.M., during its transition to Hitachi, and Seagate will continue to manufacture disks for their own products. And although industry executives said Komag was having some luck in pursuing both companies as customers, internationally it faces three competitors in Japan and a fourth in Taiwan.

      The central problem is that the industry overexpanded in the mid-1990's, spending an estimated $700 million on new plants and equipment. That led to the resulting shakeout that forced Komag to merge with a United States competitor, HMT Inc., as well as to close two United States factories and shut down a joint venture in Japan.

      The company is left with two modern factories in Malaysia. It is controlled by two New York-based hedge funds, JDS Capital and Cerberus Partners, which specialize in acquiring debt in distressed companies. They currently hold 57.6 percent of the company's shares.

      Komag has clearly not yet escaped its financial problems. The company reported a $10.2 million loss on sales of $61.4 million in the first quarter of this year. The amount was lower than the company's $51 million loss of a year ago, but sales growth is still awaiting an industry upturn.

      The company's chief executive, Thian Hoo Tan, said he believed the company was now well positioned for the information-technology industry turnaround when it finally occurs. Dr. Bajorek, who shares technology leadership at the company with Komag's president, Michael A. Russack, is even more optimistic about the long run.

      Recently, I.B.M. announced plans to commercialize a radical nanotechnology approach to data storage code-named Millipede, which does not use disk platters at all. The computer maker said recently that it would be able to reach storage densities of one trillion bits per inch, and there has been industry speculation that Millipede is the secret advantage that led I.B.M. to decide to sell its disk-drive business to Hitachi.

      Even faced with a technology race, Dr. Bajorek said he believed it was possible that the disk-drive industry would be able to keep pace. Why? Dr. Bajorek believes that demand for storage will ultimately grow just as insatiably as his technology.

      There is a human characteristic, he said: "If it is easy for us to keep it, we keep it."

  9. Here is a better link! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Redundant


    http://www.majcher.com/nytview.html?url=http://w ww . ytimes.com/2002/07/01/technology/01KOMA.html&submi t

  10. +5 pointless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    KARMA WHORE

    yes, clipboards are hard to use.

    1. Re:+5 pointless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yes, clipboards are hard to use.

      You obviously have never used Linux. The linux clipboard is near impossable to use!

      Just try cut and paste between 2 different apps!

    2. Re:+5 pointless by severnaGates · · Score: 1

      Wow you have to be a moron to screw up the highlight and middle mouse click. It's a real tuffy.

    3. Re:+5 pointless by Bitter+Old+Man · · Score: -1

      You're an idiot too.

    4. Re:+5 pointless by cyborg_monkey · · Score: -1

      Your testicles are shriveled up... they look like prunes.

  11. the front page selection method by PMM · · Score: 0

    stories chosen for the front page are oviously random,

    wonder what technique is used

    darts, hat, roulette wheel...

    oh for a job as easy as that

    1. Re:the front page selection method by Bi()hazard · · Score: 0, Offtopic
      didn't you know?
      they use this:http://bbspot.com/toys/slashtitle/index.html.

      By the way, I'm trying out the Opera browser for the first time, and the text I'm typing in this comment box is damn small. Any way to fix this or is Opera just gay? Criminy! iCab doesnt render /. right, netscape 4.08 sucks, newer netscapes suck more, ie is evil, Opera makes text look gay...maybe I'll try Mozilla next. or maybe lynx. fuck, i'll just use raw telnet to port 80.

    2. Re:the front page selection method by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since you're obviously a Mac sissy, you should try a real browser. Or are you just so leet that you had to tell the /. crowd that you're gonna try Mozilla. Spare me the sob story, boy. IE 5.5 for Mac is one of the best browsers ever... it was so good they re-wrote the Windows rendering engine based on the IE Mac code. Go figure.

    3. Re:the front page selection method by DamonCanine · · Score: 1
      Opera makes text look gay, huh? Does that mean slashdot stories show up with the text rainbow colored, or what?

      BTW, Netscape 4.08 doesn't suck....

      It blows.

      Use Mozilla.

    4. Re:the front page selection method by great+throwdini · · Score: 1

      Spare me the sob story, boy. IE 5.5 for Mac is one of the best browsers ever...

      There is no such thing as IE 5.5 for Mac. Silly AC.

      Kinda shot yourself in the foot while it was dangling out of your mouth, huh?

    5. Re:the front page selection method by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I try it in Opera, the default font isn't quite the right style for /., and the text in the post comment box is pretty tiny. But I think the original poster is just blaming the text while actually being frustrated over the threatening message that they will give you a banner after 30 days unless you register. somewhat of a freudian situation, which explains the focus on homosexuality.

    6. Re:the front page selection method by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you are the dumb fuck since you didn't notice that it was a joke, tithead.

  12. jesus did I really need to say it? by carpe_noctem · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is a pretty interesting story about http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/01/technology/01KOM A.html>the 'last' HD manufacturer in the U.S., and reasons why the industry is ailing ...


    double check those URLs and HTML tags!


    I tell you, nobody takes any pride in their work anymore :/

    --
    "Quoting famous computer scientists out of context is the root of all evil (or at least most of it) in programming." - K
    1. Re:jesus did I really need to say it? by jethro200 · · Score: 1

      here it is, for all of you too lazy to copy and paste.

    2. Re:jesus did I really need to say it? by gibler · · Score: -1

      Warning: This guy is linking to a trojan.

  13. Commodity business by DeafDumbBlind · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The drive market has been a commodity business for several years now. There's very little to distinguish the top offerings from the various vendors. IBM's exit from the drive arena recently was a reminder of this. A few years ago when I was part of a team designing a high-end RAID controller, it was the concensus of all the engineers that IBM made the best SCSI drives. They were dumbing billions into R&D and they still couldn't differenciate their offerings enough to make it profitable.

    Here's waiting for fast solid state storage...

    --


    Jesus used to be my co-pilot, but we crashed in the mountains and I had to eat him.
    1. Re:Commodity business by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really nice post. But shouldn't that be waiting for cheap solid state storage?

  14. speaking of hard business by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll


    Pete was taken blindfolded by helicopter to Mr.
    Black's nightclub. He was assured by Jeff, who rested a hand on his thigh
    during the mysterious trip that all this secrecy would not be necessary once
    they knew him better.

    Once inside the door to the club, the belindfold was
    removed. It was a sumptuously decorated supperclub in the Art Deco style,
    each booth situated so that the complete privacy of the client was assured,
    and each booth facing a small curtained stage. Pete noticed at once of
    course, nake teenage boys moving through the soft gentle velvet darkness of
    the room, serving drinks and food.

    "I'll be back in a few minutes," Jeff smiled. 'Meantime make yourself
    at home. Everyone and everything here is available to you. Just ask. "

    On a dias to the right of the stage, a naked teenage band offered
    unobtrusive versions of pop songs. The lead singer gyrated his slender pale
    teenage hips as he sang into the mike, and his cock and balls swung left and
    right. The drummer, a cocky kid with a mop of blond hair and a sweatslick
    smooth young body sat with his legs spread, his huge balls dripping off the
    small stool.

    "Would you care for a drink sir?"

    Pete turned his head to see the tall muscular seventeen year old
    waiter who like the others was naked. The boy had a winning smile, which
    few noticed becuase he also had an extremely large circumcised penis thick
    and smooth and pink.

    "Yes, a scotch and soda please..." Pete said, smiling back at the
    handsome youth.

    The boy relaxed a bit, and his hips and dick jutted forward even more.
    "You're new here, arn't you sir? I saw you looking at my prick. If you'd
    like to touch it or suck it, please just tell me. Everyone here is eager to
    make this the best night of your life."

    "Well thank you..." Pete said awkwardly unable to look away now from
    the horse cock ont he seventeen year old.

    "Mr. Black has just released a video of me called "Scoutmaster Tim"
    in which I put some boyscouts through a really nasty initiation. You might
    enjoy it. I'll be right back with your drink." Pete watched the young
    man's muscular ass cheeks roll as he walked up to the bar.

    Another naked teen, this one about fifteen and carrying a tray
    approached the table. This boy was smaller, with a more youthful chest and
    stomach and a short stubby prick that stuck out from a patch of black hair
    over two well rounded hairless teen balls.

    "Would you care for anything to smoke sir? We have cigarettes,
    cigars, pot of course, coke to sniff, crack cocaine, and heroin. We have
    needles, tabs, pills, powder, all coming from Mr. Black's private coumpound
    and refinery in Mae Hong Son Thailand."

    Bingo! Already Pete had something. First mention of a drug ring in
    Thailand. Pete searched his mind, going back to his classes in the FBI on
    drugs...Mae Hong Son meant "valley of the mists" and was an area in the
    northwest of the country near what is commonly referred to as the golden
    triangle.

    "Sir? something to smoke? " The boy smiled down at Pete. He was a
    cute kid, with big eyes and black curly hair.

    "Not now thank you. Maybe later." Pete wanted to appear gay, so he
    lightly brushed his hand over the boy's prick and balls. The Kid thrust his
    hips toward the client, offering his genitals to the man's hand.

    "You can smoke me later if you care to...or perhaps you'd be interested
    in my new video, 'Kenny Kennel Adventure.' It features me, a really mean
    well hung dog trainer who loves to play rough, and five Great Danes. " The
    boy never lost his smile when describing the film, but his eyes kind of
    glazed over.

    "Maybe later. " Pete said. A few seconds later, Tim returned with
    the scotch and soda and a menu. Once Pete heard the sounds of heavy
    fucking coming from another booth, but he could see nothing. Jeff slid
    back in the booth next to him.

    "The show starts in about ten minutes. There are private rooms
    upstairs, really sweet, everything you could want including in house video
    cameras in case you may want a copy of your visit;. As Isaid all the boys
    are available, but we've got at least twenty guest tonight, so your first
    choice may be taken unless you move fast. Any type boy you'd like to try
    tonight?"

    Pete took a risk. "yes, I'd love an Asian boy...Thai preferably. They
    always look about ten years younger than their real age. "

    Jeff beamed, throwing his arm around Pete. "Asian, huh? My uncle
    would like you. Those are his favorites as well. We've got some delicious
    Thai boys. would you like something young and unused, or in his teens and
    experienced? "

    Pete couldn't stand the thought of having to have sex with a child.
    "Someone about fifteen would be great."

    "Rough stuff or not? I mean if you're going to whip or fist the kid, I
    have to know, just so we can make the proper arrangements. "

    "No," Pete stammered still unable to grasp the complexity of this
    perversity. 'Just normal sex."

    Jeff laughed. "Just normal sex with a fifteen year old Thai boy,
    huh? Just gonna shove your big dick up his little ass two or three times,
    huh? Well we can arrange that. " Jeff snapped his fingers and yet another
    naked boy of about thirteen hurried over. This kid qualified as an angel
    in the looks department. "Bring me the Asian Book." jeff said. "And get
    me a vodka martini too. And move your cunt." Then he turned back to Pete.
    "Talk about sweet asses. That kid is a real trip to fuck. His rectum just
    doesnt stretch, no matter how many dicks plow it. I mean I think every guy
    who comes here has fucked him in the last month, and the little cunt is
    still tight as can be. And his face is so cute, I just love to slap my dick
    back and forth across it, leaving pecker tracks. The kid's father is a
    public relations man for the Baptist Ministries and has no idea what his son
    is being forced to do. "

    "Forced? So the boy isnt whoring himself willingly?"

    "Come on, would a cute thing like that willingly be used as a fucktoy
    for perverted men? That's the sweetness of my uncle's opeation. It cater's
    to men who are into humiliation, degredation, and forced sex. Its a very
    specific appeal. All the boys who work here are either blackmailed,
    threatened, or just plain beaten into submission. Many lead normal lives
    away from the club and films. So you might see a sixteen year old kid,
    getting fucked by a black basketball team, or even a gorilla in a video..and
    know that that boy is desperately trying to keep up a normal life on the
    outside. Most are promised that if they behave and perform well for a few
    months they will be released from their indenture and allowed to return to
    their lives."

    "Yeah, but Pete, what if a parent or teacher or someone does find out
    that this kid is involved in a sex ring unwillingly or not...what then?"

    Jeff smiled a big smile and patted Pete on the cheek. "Then we simply
    have to take care of the parents or teacher. We've gotten some intersting
    films that way...Mr. Black loves to film father's forced to fuck their own
    sons. Sometimes a boy can really be broken in a fun way by making him screw
    his own mother. That's always fun. Of course we also have whole family
    fuckfests. Our show tonight features a mother, father, and two sons in a
    fourway fuck orgy. The father was caught altering the books of the business
    he worked for...and rather than go to prison, he opted for family sex for
    Mr. Black. You'll enjoy that part of the show. The younger son is getting
    his ass broken open for the first time tonight ..by both Dad and the older
    brother. Mom's going to help by licking the dicks and balls as they fuck
    the boy's ass. We've also got one of our main stars, a seventeen ear old kid
    named Chad, getting gang banged tonight on stage. Also a fourteen year old
    virgin boy will be stripped naked in public for the first time.Its always
    great to watch their faces as the lower their underpants for a crowd for the
    very first time. Then he will have his scrotum beaten. Then he will be made
    to masturbate in public and lick up his spilled cum. Wait till you see this
    kid's innocent , sweet face.
    Then two well hung Latino boys will have a tug-o-war using their
    dicks..which will be tied together. Ands then two brothers in a dildo
    stuffing contest. The boy who can take the larget dildo up his asshole gets
    to take the rest of the evening off. The boy who loses..get another kind of
    expeirence. Both these boys are in high school and on the school soccer
    team. At this point they are stil ass virgins, although both boys have
    been sucking dick for the last few weeks. Tomight we will see which teenage
    ass can accomodate the largest dildo.l"

    Jeff smiled warmly at Pete. "You know, you are one cool dude. I know
    you don't go for guys your own age..and I'm no boy any longer..but hell I'm
    only about ten years younger than you are, and if you ever want sex with a
    real man. Let me know." Jeff's hand was working at Pete's crotch.

    Pete knew this was a big break. Christ, the guy was Mr. Black's nephew.
    If he could get in tight with him, he might be able to end this insanity all
    the sooner. "I have no aversion to fully grown studs..." Pete smiled back.

    "I don't want you to think if always hit on the customers. In fact, I
    never do, my uncle would have a kitten...but I really like you. I'm not
    sure why, and that's no insult..i just don't know why I am particularly
    attracted to you..youknow with all the young meat lying round here for the
    taking. And the fresh boycunt we've got at the frat house. We've got four
    pledges that we broke..mentally and physically and emotionally. You met two
    of them in the limo. Well these boys are nothing more now than fresh fine
    cunt meat. They have been reduced to cockslave status and have no will to
    fight. So I guess my uncle's training paid off. So what do you you say,
    would you like to spend a weekend with me sometimes...mixing it up?"

    "Jeff, I'd be delighted to. " The next instant hunky young Jeff
    Black's tongue was inside Pete Daniels' mouth. When they finished the two
    and a half minute spitswap, Pete found a book before him.

    "These are the Asian boys we have available tonight. If a boy has a
    red mark next to his photo, it means he is already taken for the evening.
    I'll be back..and Pete..its going to be wonderful getting to know you."
    Jeff laughed and moved on to another booth. Pete opened the book.

    Each boy had several photos. A face shot. A full frontal nude shot.
    A full rear nude shot, and then one or two in sexy positions like holding
    his ass cheeks open or masturbating his dick. The boys ranged from very
    young up to about eighteen.
    then there were special comments on each boy. Things like, "Never eaten
    shit..want to be the first with him?" or "This boy is very naughty and can
    take any punishment you can think up..." or "this boy has a four point
    average in high school...see how he does at extra curriculars..." Pete
    couldn't believe that Mr. Black has literally forced all these fine
    innocent boys into sexual servitude. One page had a very cute young Asian
    boy and girl. The caption read, "Watch this cute young brother and sister
    fuck, or fuck them both yourself. Special two for one price." Pete wanted
    a Thai boy, hoping to get more information on the location of the compound.
    He could then page his boss at headquarters and get an attack force on its
    way. But only if Mr. Black were at the compound. Any invasion that didn't
    include the capture of Mr. Black would have to be considered a total
    failure.

    Pete had just decided on a very cute Thai fifteen year old with the
    caption, "The best cocksucker at Mr. Black's," When Jeff returned.

    "I just had a brilliant idea. You love Thailand...well it just so
    happens, my uncle is there now, doing some business, so why don't you and I
    fly out there and see him? We can get to know each other better and have a
    real blast."

    Pete beamed. "Great idea Jeff..." Great fucking idea! So Mr. Black
    was in Thailand now..probably in Mae Hone Son.

    Mr. Black had just finished a rewarding conversation with one of
    Hollywood's most sought after leading men. The teenage hearthrob had
    recently made a film in Thailand and fallen into Mr. Black's clutches. The
    young star knew that if his homosexual orgies and drug use became common
    knowledge, his career would be ruined, so Mr. Black had him literally by the
    balls. The tall lanky blond was seated in a lounge chair, working a nine
    inch dildo in and out of his shaved pink asshole. Not that he wanted to do
    this, Mr. Black had ordered him to ass fuck himself. Mr. Black loved the way
    the young man's face screwed up with every thrust of the big thick rubber
    prick up his boycunt.
    The kid's body which had been thin and undeveloped had now taken on nice
    tone due to the work on this Thai island adventure film. His pouty
    nipples now rode on well developed pecs and the lad's body was a healthy
    golden tan. His dick was nothing to write home about, but it wad cute.
    Just the right size to bust the twats of the teenyboppers in his
    audience..only very few knew it would be their young hunky teenage
    boyfriends that would more caue his boner to throb. His supposed bodyguards
    were acutally studs hired to plow his skinny ass upon demand.

    "You told me that if i did that disgusting New Year's party for you,
    you would let me off the hook," the kid whined in his thin not very actorish
    voice. He stopped pumping his boytwat for a moment, but at a look from Mr.
    Black commenced ramming his pussy withthe dildo.

    "I know baby, but you know how it is...you need the drugs and secrecy,
    and my clients just love to see Hollywood's hottest young hunk geeting ass
    battered on private video. So I think you've got t make a few more videos
    for me. You just go on back to "Hollyweird" and do your usual thing. I'll
    contact you when I want you."

    "Jesus, if those videos ever get out, I'll be ruined." Slop thunk,
    slop thunk, slopthunk!

    Mr. Black took out his huge dick. He walked up to the mega-star.
    "Then you just better hope they never get out. Open up." The blond opened
    his nice full lipped mouth and Mr. Black shoved his dick into the most
    idolized face in filmdom.

    "Suck, and keep fucking your ass. You see you learned a valuable
    lesson my dear young twat. Money and fame are not eveything. Leverage!
    That is real power. I've got the leverage. You need the drugs, cant do
    without them. You also have a secret sex life. So, in essence, you belong
    to me. Now I want you to do a few things for me. You owe your public a
    better time, so I want you to return to Hollywood and select as your next
    major picture, one with a nice long full frontal nude scene. You cheated
    them with this island thing, everybody thought they were going to see some
    tallywhacker. So I want some cockshots in the next film, nice and clear, in
    good light. We'll see if the teenboppers still adore you when they see that
    their high school sweethearts have bigger dicks. I can't understand what you
    are saying, so shut up and suck. Secondly, you know your lovely rear sun
    deck on your Hollywood mansion..the one the reporters are always filming
    with their zoom lenses..well, I want you to go out there one day next week
    around noon and lay down in a lounge chair..bare assed naked and beat your
    meat. Shoot a nice load. That will keep the tabloids happy. Oh stop crying
    you big baby, it will probably help your fucking career. Jesus, you can't
    act worth shit, so you might as well do something well even if its just jerk
    off. "

    The film actor had left by private car about noon, and a good thing
    too, becuase at five that afternoon, the Thai Army attacked the compound.
    Mr. Black first hear the whoosh whoosh whoosh of helicopter blades ashe was
    fucking the ass of the sixteen year old son of one of his refinery
    workers. At first he thought it was the ceiling fan and went on slamming
    his big prick into the nice tight hole of the native boy. The boy was very
    cute and very shy and very straight, so Mr. Black had made a big deal of
    stripping the kid and feeling his ass in front of all the laughing compoung
    workers. The boy knew he could not refuse Mr. Black or else his family
    would lose its job working at the compound preparing the opium into small
    blocks. So he had to stand there in the sun filled compound yard and let
    Mr. Black weigh his balls and yank on his dick.

    Finally Mr. Black had said very loudly in Thai so all could understand,
    "I think this boy will make a fine pussy." And he sent the kid to his room
    with instructions for the boy to shower and wait bare assed on his bed.
    Nervously, the poor native boy waited for over an hour, imagining what a
    dick up his ass must feel like,knowing he would be teased and called Mr.
    Black's Cunt by all the boys in the village. Knowing the girls would look
    away and giggle.

    First Mr. Black taught him how to suck cock. That took some time. Then
    the patient teacher taught the boy how to properly suck on and lick a
    sctorum. Next they progressed to ass sucking, which made the boy sick
    several times, but he finally got the hang of it. And then Mr. Black fuckd
    the crying kid up the ass.

    It was then that he heard the approaching helicopters. He never did
    hear the gunfire as the Thai military troops slaughtered everyone in the
    compound, man woman and child. Tolerence toward drug traffic is zero in
    Thailand. An automatic death penalty, without trial at times. Mr. Black was
    already in the dark tunnel dug underneath the compund and leading to the
    local Karen Hill Tribe village. It was a tunnel similar to those used by
    the vietnamese during the Asian war, dark and dirty, but a lifeline at times
    such as these. Mr. Black had paused only enough to grab a knapsack full of
    clothes and survival needs, then naked, with his hard dick still leaking
    pre fuck, he grabbed the terrified Thai kid and ushered him down a stairway
    beneath a trap door set in the floor of the bedroom underneath an oriental
    carpet. He didn't save the kid out of kindness. He didn't want anyone
    behind to testify as to where he had gone. He could have killed the boy,
    but he didnt have time, and besides, the lad was cute and a potentially good
    fucktoy. So they made their way naked beneath the earth, and climbed up a
    ladder into a hut in the middle of the Hill Tribe village. The amazed
    faces of the villagers, including the beautiful long necked girls with
    silver bands stretching their heads high, broke into grins as the farang
    with the big dick flopping rushed to the top of the nearest hill to stare
    at the smoke rising from his burning compound. .Distant sounds of gunfire
    told the story of the slaughter. Mr. Black swore vengeance on whoever had
    revealed the location of the compound and cause the death of so many workers
    and more importantly, the loss of so much fine opium. A multi-million dollar
    loss in less than an hour.

    The Thai boy tried to gently break free of Mr. Black's grasp, thinking
    he might spirit himself to safety unnoticed, but Mr. Black twisted his hand
    in the boy's black hair and then slapped him hard three times. "I'm not
    through fucking you! " Mr. Black said in Thai. "Kow Jai Mai?" Do you
    understand? "I am very angry, and when I am angry, I fuck very hard. I like
    to hurt the boy I am fucking! I am going to hurt you very badly today. Very
    badly. You are going to cry like a little baby as I fuck you over and over.
    And hopefully, that will make me feel a little better! And then all the boys
    and the men in the village will fuck you. They will do it because I will
    pay them to do it. Over fifty men and boys will fuck you today. And there
    is nothing you can do about it. The pain of large tragedies must be
    compensated for with small pleasures!

    1. Re:speaking of hard business by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      You rock, dude. Whoever you are. Please keep posting these stories - they are excellent!

  15. Bad Puns by TheDick · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Gotta Love /. there needs to be a mod for this.

    --

    1. Re:Bad Puns by jcoy42 · · Score: 1

      Gotta Love /. there needs to be a mod for this.
      Yes, but should a bad pun mean positive or negative karma?

      --
      Never trust an atom. They make up everything.
    2. Re:Bad Puns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      Hey Dick, could you explain the difference between the words "principal" and "principle"? I always get them mixed up. Thanks.

    3. Re:Bad Puns by Trinn · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's obvious. +0 Punny.
      Go ahead, tell me you didn't see that coming.

  16. Circumvented One by Disevidence · · Score: 2, Informative
    --
    Think nothing is impossible? Try slamming a revolving door.
    1. Re:Circumvented One by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The NYTimes is blocking it. At least, they are for me.

    2. Re:Circumvented One by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Think nothing is impossible? Try slamming a revolving door

      that's easy, just stick a piece of metal between the door and the wall, and push. slam!

  17. heh by hatter3bdev · · Score: 3, Funny

    The problem is they just work too well and nobody pays any attention.

    I Guess we know why windows is so popular then :-)

  18. Fixed Link by GrandCow · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Fixed link

    For those too lazy to cut and paste

    --
    "Well kids, you tried your best, and you failed. The lesson is, never try." -Homer Simpson
  19. Based in the US? by ObviousGuy · · Score: 1

    So what?

    Do they make cheaper, better, or larger hard drives than their competitors? On this, the article is silent.

    I'm all for mindless flag waving, but only so far as I don't have to pay extra for it.

    --
    I have been pwned because my /. password was too easy to guess.
    1. Re:Based in the US? by martyn+s · · Score: 1

      A commodity, by definition is a product which is the same regardless from who you buy it from. Indistinguishable in quality and price.

      Maybe people claim that hard drives are commodity items. If what they're saying is true, than the article had nothing to say about how this company's product compares to other hard drive companies' product, because there was nothing to be said.

    2. Re:Based in the US? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then the article is nothing more than a chance to do some flag waving? Slashdot is getting better and better.

    3. Re:Based in the US? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Part of the problem is that in Asia, they get 20 year tax free holidays. Free trade is nice, as long as the playing field is level.
      The drives made vary in quality, lesser quality ball bearings, made cheap.
      What the article does not say is that if this company got the subsidy sugar growers got, they would be in easy street. Congresscritters have voted to put sugar ahead of high-tech jobs; but not send thier own jobs offshore. Meantime, I cannot get hard numbers on will this disk drive go for 2 years nonstop; MTBF has become worthless.

    4. Re:Based in the US? by nelsonal · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As we all learned with the 60/75GXP fiasco. I personally think that had alot to do with IBM's exit from the HD business. However, its difficult to know if the drive your about to buy for less than normal street price is cheap because an OEM had too much inventory, or cheap because it made from cheap parts. I agree with you on the free trade on a balanced playing field would be best, but how do you get the other guy to change his rules, when he feels that you have cheated him for centuries? And its even tougher to deal with other countries if you don't show good faith in most dealings. The steel tariffs have hurt trade negotiations pretty significantly. Down with the sugar lobby, if nothing esle it keeps your prices for sugar about 50% higher than world prices. While the average /.er doesn't do enough sugar purchasing to notice, they might enjoy better pop. Soda switched to corn syrup about the time the quota's were put in place. Incedentally I once heard a sugar farmer complain that he never got a check from the government, so he obviously wasn't getting any subsidies.

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
    5. Re:Based in the US? by ObviousGuy · · Score: 1

      Incedentally I once heard a sugar farmer complain that he never got a check from the government, so he obviously wasn't getting any subsidies.

      He needs to get in line and fill out forms. You don't get money from the government by working on your farm all day trying to grow your crops.

      --
      I have been pwned because my /. password was too easy to guess.
    6. Re:Based in the US? by sconeu · · Score: 3, Informative

      If you go to Komag's web site, you'll see that they don't make drives, they make drive platters, which they sell to drive OEMs.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    7. Re:Based in the US? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you go to Komag's web site [komag.com], you'll see that they don't make drives, they make drive platters, which they sell to drive OEMs.

      To which the proper reply, if I get ObviousGuy's drift, is, "So what?"

    8. Re:Based in the US? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Acctually he benifits indirectly, sugar subsidies come in the form of very limited quotas on imports of cheap foreign sugar. So he has benefited by getting a higher market price for his sugar, that you and I paid for, even if he didn't get a check made out to him. That kind of subsidy is the most destructive, because its easier to ignore.

    9. Re:Based in the US? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, the big 'farmers' receive subsidies for sugar grown outside the US.. let that sink in good. Meantime, the environment in Florida is being raped, everglades will be extinct soon., so tourism and flipper go down the gurgler. Hanging chads, you betcya. Limited quota's - thats a joke. Would like to see wasted agriculture checks 'capped' , and the US re-invigorated to what it does best - hi-tech, rather than copying the European farmer/subsidy handout mentality. This is academic anyway, when national security is stored on drives made in China, yet nobody is alert. We all know what happened to high tech in Europe.. anyone see a pattern? The rot started when Zenith stopped US TV production. Total dependance on imports is a bad thing.

  20. important! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    FRANKFURT, Germany -- A Russian airliner and a Boeing-made cargo plane collided over southern Germany late Monday, and up to 150 people aboard were believed to have been killed, police said.

    Rescue workers have already recovered bodies of some of the victims after the Tupolev 154 and the Boeing 757 freight plane crashed into each other at 11:43 p.m. , said Wolfgang Wenzel, a spokesman for police in the city of Tuebingen.

    The Boeing was carrying just two pilots, both of whom were believed to have killed, Wenzel said early Tuesday.

    An air traffic controller from the airport in Frankfurt, who declined to be named, said the Tupolev was a passenger plane for Bashkirian Airlines. Bashkiria is a republic within the Russian federation. Police said the flight originated in Moscow with Barcelona, Spain, as its final destination.

    The air controller identified the freight aircraft as flying for package delivery service DHL that had taken off in Bahrain and was headed for Brussels, Belgium. There was no immediate answer to telephone calls to DHL headquarters in San Francisco.

    Both planes were believed to have been flying at about 36,000 feet, Wenzel said.

    Burning wreckage was scattered for several miles near Ueberlingen, 135 miles south of Frankfurt and just north of Lake Constance, Wenzel said.

    Dozens of people flooded police stations in the area with calls describing seeing a large ball of fire in the sky at the time of the crash, Wenzel said.

    Collisions in the air between large aircraft are extremely rare, especially at the high cruising altitudes where Monday's crash reportedly occurred.

    Most aircraft carry transponders, devices that relay a plane's identification, altitude and speed to ground controllers. Controllers use this information to track aircraft and keep them a safe distance from each other. In addition, equipment on many aircraft can read the transponder signals of nearby planes, painting an electronic map to show pilots the aircraft around them.

    Many planes also carry collision avoidance equipment that can automatically pull the plane away from an impending collision, or sound an alarm and tell the pilot which way to turn to avoid a crash.

    Transponders must be regularly calibrated and checked to make sure they are functioning properly.

    1. Re:important! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      What does this have to do with Microsoft, Anime, monopolies, or HHGTTG?

      Methinks you're mistaking Slashdot for a news site.

  21. what the hell did i cram in my anus? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    Oooooh. Gahhh. I'm really paying for it this time.

    I tell you, I've got to start being more careful. I'm not getting any younger.

    I don't even remember: What exactly did I cram in my anus last night? It feels like I drove a Mack truck through there. Thank God for Bufferin.

    I've never really thought of myself as a big-time anal crammer, or the kind of guy who can out-cram everyone else at a party. I'll usually stuff, you know, a couple of travel-size shampoos and maybe a harmonica in there, just to be social. And sure, on New Year's Eve or some special occasion, I might loosen up and put in a can of soup or some Beanie Babies. But I'm hardly a brass-colon daredevil like that guy in the Guinness book who crammed a washing machine.

    Boy, I hope I can remember what I stuffed up there last night. I'm sure it'll make a great story on Monday. I'm pretty sure it was squarish in shape: There are eight distinct pain points that feel equidistant from each other. But what would cause that? A Rubik's Cube? A stack of 10 or so CDs? An alarm clock? I just don't know.

    Advertisement

    Obviously, heading into the evening, I didn't plan to cram anything terribly big up my ass. But who ever does? It's always the same, you know: You go to a party, they put out some cheese, a few fruit wedges--no problem. But then somebody hands you a broomstick, and you think, "Oh, what the hey!" Next thing you know, you're waking up the next morning wondering if you'll ever shit straight again.

    Oh, sure, back in college, I could cram with the big boys. I was a fraternity man; how could I not? I remember this one mixer with the Tri-Delts. I crammed five bottles of Coors and won $80. The only reason I won, though, was that Big Rooney wasn't there that night. Whoa, that guy could cram things in his anus! I once saw him shove 16 pool balls in his ass and completely close his sphincter around them. He was a monster! Today, he's a broker for Schwab Insurance, the last thing any of us would have guessed, believe me.

    Anyway, my point is, those days are far behind me. Nowadays, I'm lucky to get the collected works of T.S. Eliot up there--softbound!

    I should note that I don't actually endorse this kind of behavior. I'm just telling you what goes on. I'm also trying not to be unrealistic. I realize that as long as there are anuses, there will be people cramming things up them. But I want to urge everyone reading this, especially young people, that if you're going to cram stuff up your anus, please do it responsibly.

    Could it have been one of those Chinese tea tins? This is gonna drive me crazy. I hope I can figure it out without having to go around the house seeing what's missing.

    I think last night will have to be my last great hurrah as an anal crammer. Next time someone offers me a Hickory Farms Deluxe Gift Basket, I'll just say no. Or if I do decide to do it, I'll be sure to slowly cram it one item at a time. After all, you can't help growing old, but you can do it gracefully, right? From now on, I'm setting some limits to my cramming, like a videocassette or two once a month and maybe a raccoon on my birthday. And, of course, the usual cup of spiced tea on Christmas morning with the rest of the family.

    But definitely no more ironing boards. I'm pushing 35, for God's sake.

  22. Gee by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's a good thing that IBM got out of that volatile, risky market and into the nice, solid, safe market of selling holographic memory "in five to ten years"

    They'd be in real trouble now otherwise!

  23. Pass the lube please CmdrTaco by pwpbot · · Score: -1

    Ladies and gentleman put our hands together for the largest ass on the InternetG to the izzO A to the izzT S to the izzEWelcome ladies and gentlemen to the 8th wonder of the worldThe ass of the century oh its timeless GOATSEThanks for clicking that linkYou coulda been anywhere on the webBut youre here with meI appreciate thatG to the izzO A to the izzT S to the izzEReading drivel on that press release bout VA LinuxWas wondern why they changed their namesDumped that dirt cheap stock through with themIf I worked there Id quit no way Id work for themWasnt born a coder I just make fun of emG to the izzO A to the izzT S to the izzEPorno for freezy keeps my hard drive so sleasyCant leave Everquest alone the game needs meHex editing my name into VB progs it aint easySlashdot wanna IP block me I hang up and dial back inAnd somehow I beat the lameness filter like RockyG to the izzO A to the izzT S to the izzENot guilty he who mods me down is not real to meTherefore he doesnt existSo poof vamoose son of a bitchChorusG to the izzO A to the izzT S to the izzEReading drivel on that press release bout VA LinuxG to the izzO A to the izzT S to the izzEThats the anthem getcha damn hands upG to the izzO A to the izzT S to the izzENot guilty yall gotta feel meG to the izzO A to the izzT S to the izzEThats the anthem getcha damn hands UPHolla at meI do this for the postersTo let em know what enlarged ass look like when they shoulda looked at that link closerShow em how to avoid a room full o taco snot coaxersGet some good trolls in before the storys overPosts with redirect goatse links even get modded upIm dissin JonKatz for those 15yearold boys he seems to have a crushPay for premium Slashdot You gotta be kidding usIf aint profitable pimp your boy whores for mo bucksChorusYeahGOATSE is back trollin parody of rapGo on click that link view the crater in that crackLike I told you sell boys noJonKatz does that so hopefully you wont have to go through thatI was raised on Windows point and clickif you dont like that you can suck my dickGot an X10 camera focused on my assWanna see the picture PayPal me some cashThreshold under 0 why I got it so lowSave good trolls on my disk watchin all the time for moreSo you know I seen it all beforeI seen redundant on karma whores when their link post was too late Crapfloods and mod downs the two things I hateA good troll modded up the two things is greatG to the izzO A to the izzT S to the izzEWhat else can I say about Slashdot itll turn a man gayChorusG to the izzO A to the izzT S to the izzE4x to fade outThe above has been brought to you by the fine folks of Frost Pist Brewery geocitiescom Frost Pist Beer Always ICE BREWED for a THICK head

  24. wtf? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    Look, I'm not a hateful person or anything--I believe we should all live and let live. But lately, I've been having a real problem with these homosexuals. You see, just about wherever I go these days, one of them approaches me and starts sucking my cock.

    Take last Sunday, for instance, when I casually struck up a conversation with this guy in the health-club locker room. Nothing fruity, just a couple of fellas talking about their workout routines while enjoying a nice hot shower. The guy looked like a real man's man, too--big biceps, meaty thighs, thick neck. He didn't seem the least bit gay. At least not until he started sucking my cock, that is.

    Where does this queer get the nerve to suck my cock? Did I look gay to him? Was I wearing a pink feather boa without realizing it? I don't recall the phrase, "Suck my cock" entering the conversation, and I don't have a sign around my neck that reads, "Please, You Homosexuals, Suck My Cock."

    I've got nothing against homosexuals. Let them be free to do their gay thing in peace, I say. But when they start sucking my cock, I've got a real problem.

    Then there was the time I was hiking through the woods and came across a rugged-looking, blond-haired man in his early 30s. He seemed straight enough to me while we were bathing in that mountain stream, but, before you know it, he's sucking my cock!

    Advertisement

    What is it with these homos? Can't they control their sexual urges? Aren't there enough gay cocks out there for them to suck on without them having to target normal people like me?

    Believe me, I have no interest in getting my cock sucked by some queer. But try telling that to the guy at the beach club. Or the one at the video store. Or the one who catered my wedding. Or any of the countless other homos who've come on to me recently. All of them sucked my cock, and there was nothing I could do to stop them.

    I tell you, when a homosexual is sucking your cock, a lot of strange thoughts go through your head: How the hell did this happen? Where did this fairy ever get the idea that I was gay? And where did he get those fantastic boots?

    It screws with your head at other times, too. Every time a man passes me on the street, I'm afraid he's going to grab me and drag me off to some bathroom to suck my cock. I've even started to visualize these repulsive cock-sucking episodes during the healthy, heterosexual marital relations I enjoy with my wife--even some that haven't actually happened, like the sweaty, post-game locker-room tryst with Vancouver Canucks forward Mark Messier that I can't seem to stop thinking about.

    Things could be worse, I suppose. It could be women trying to suck my cock, which would be adultery and would make me feel tremendously guilty. As it is, I'm just angry and sickened. But, believe me, that's enough. I don't know what makes these homosexuals mistake me for a guy who wants his cock sucked, and, frankly, I don't want to know. I just wish there were some way to get them to stop.

    I've tried all sorts of things, but it's all been to no avail. A few months back, I started wearing an intimidating-looking black leather thong with menacing metal studs in the hopes that it would frighten those faggots off, but it didn't work. In fact, it only seemed to encourage them. Then, I really started getting rough, slapping them around whenever they were sucking my cock, but that failed, too. Even pulling out of their mouths just before ejaculation and shooting sperm all over their face, chest, and hair seemed to have no effect. What do I have to do to get the message across to these swishes?

    I swear, if these homosexuals don't take a hint and quit sucking my cock all the time, I'm going to have to resort to drastic measures--like maybe pinning them down to the cement floor of the loading dock with my powerful forearms and working my cock all the way up their butt so they understand loud and clear just how much I disapprove of their unwelcome advances. I mean, you can't get much more direct than that.

  25. Am I reading this wrong? by GrandCow · · Score: 1

    And probably soon to be gone completely.

    I accidentally clicked on the link to Komag Incorporated's stock prices... Hoooooooo boy.

    Open $ 0.01

    High $ 0.01

    Low $ 0.00

    How do you get a low of $0.00??? How come my stock broker didn't call me that second and have me buy ten million shares? He's fired!

    --
    "Well kids, you tried your best, and you failed. The lesson is, never try." -Homer Simpson
    1. Re:Am I reading this wrong? by q-soe · · Score: 3, Informative

      from the article

      " It hasn't been easy. On Monday, Dr. Bajorek's company will announce that it is successfully emerging from Chapter 11 bankruptcy, which the company entered in May 2001."

      Honestly before commenting please read the article... Companies in Chapter 11 are not traded thus they have a 0.00 dollar share price..

      --
      I refuse to argue with Anonymous Cowards - if you want a discussion get an account....
    2. Re:Am I reading this wrong? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, depending on where you are getting the quote from, if the stock is valued at under a penny some sites will just say 0.00 rather than going into the decimal places. In this case it probably was the fact that they were bankrupt.

    3. Re:Am I reading this wrong? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think instead of 0.00 for sub-penny stock prices it should say "SELL NOW YOU FOOL BEFORE YOU LOSE EVERYTHING!". :)

    4. Re:Am I reading this wrong? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shouldn't "not traded" mean more like infinite share price instead of 0.00? 0 means free, infinite would mean you couldn't get them even if you wanted to (not traded).

      Anyway, how can you value something if you don't trade it?

  26. a different perspective by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    My parents were divorced. They had been since right after I was born. I was 15 and my sister(Brittney) was 14. I lived with my mother, and she lived with my other sister, father, and step-mother. That weekend, my sister and I went over to my Aunt's house to stay.

    I went over there at about 5:00. I sat around watching TV and talking with my sister until about 7:00. I went to the bathroom to brush my teeth. Well, when I was in there I decided to do a little jerking off. So for a few minutes I stood there having my personal time to myself. After I was done I cleaned myself up and began brushing my teeth. My sister burst in the door, jerked down her pants and panties and began taking a pee. This shoked me at first because nothing like that had ever happened.

    About an hour later my 15 year old cousin Jessica arrived. Her and Brittney went into the guest room and shut the door. I went in another room and grabed a blanket and pillow and put them in the recliner. I took off my clothes, except for my boxers, and I put on a T-shirt. I climbed in the recliner and covered up to go to sleep.

    Brittney and Jessice both came in and asked me if I wanted to come watch a movie in the room with them. I told them guessed, even though I was very tired. I picked up my blanket and walked with them to the room. The locked the door, and Brittney started the movie. To my suprise it was a porno. I sat on the bed and covered up. Jessica sat next to me and Brittney sat on the side of her. They began to wisper to each other. Suddenly, Jessica reached under the covers and put her hand on my thigh. I didn't pay it much attention. Brittney got up and sat on the other side of me. They began to giggle at one another, then Jessica slid her hand up and touched my cock. I looked at her for a second, then turned my attention back to the porno. She began to rub it. Brittney told me to turn and lay on my back.

    Jessica then sat on my legs and pulled out my dick. She slowly started to rub it. Brittney pulled off her shirt exposing her large breasts. She leaned over me and put one near my mouth. I leaned up and took it in my mouth. I began to suck on it gently, and slightly nibbled on it. Jessica then stood up and pulled off her shirt and panties. She laid next to me and put my hand between her legs. I slid my fingers into her wet pussy. I began fingering her for a few moments until my sister got up and pulled off her underwear as well.

    Brittney climbed up ontop of me and slid down onto my cock. She started to move back and forth on it. Jessice got up and told me she wanted me to eat her pussy. I told her I would if Brittney also did it to her. They both agreed and as Brittney was fucking me, Jessice straddled my face and I began to eat her pussy. I started lapping her wet cunt over and over. She let out a huge moan and her juices began to pore. She got up and laid down on her back. Brittney climbed off my cock and got on her hands and knees infront of Jessica.

    I got behind Brittney and slid my cock into her. She leaned down and burried her face in Jessica's pussy. I started pounding away on my sisters hot cunt. I reached under and started to play with her nipples. I kept fucking her as fast as I could, until finally I shot my load deep into her wet pussy. I collapsed ontop of her.

    Jessican, Brittney, and I all laid on the bed naked together. I kissed them both softly and got up to go take a shower. I walked in the bathroom, completly naked, only to find my Aunt removing her clothes to get in the bath. I apolagized and turned to leave the room. She told me wait. She said that if I didn't mind she would share the tub with me. I agreed and we both climbed into the shower.

    I got my body wet and began to soap up. My Aunt did the same and then asked if I could wash her back. I put the soap on my hands and began to rub her back. "Lower" she said. I slid my hands down to the small of her back. "Lower" she continued. I gulped and said oh well. I took my hands and cuped her ass. She turned to me and kissed me softly. "Would you like to take this to the bedroom?" "Sure" I said. We rinsed off and went into her bedroom. I laid on the bed and she climbed ontop of me. She leaned over and kissed me. She told me to play with her ass and I did just that.

    I began rubbing on her ass. I took my finger and teased her hold. I then slid it into her. She moaned out in pleasure. I took my finger out and she slid down onto my dick. She started grinding my cock, faster and faster. It only took me a few minutes before I filled her pussy with cum.

    I laid next to her and told her that I should come over more ofter. She agreed and told me next time to make sure that my sister and cousin get in on the action...

  27. My speculation... by Ziviyr · · Score: 3, Insightful

    there has been industry speculation that Millipede is the secret advantage that led I.B.M. to decide to sell its disk-drive business to Hitachi.

    I speculate it might have been due to IBM's hideous failure to manufacturing stable drives that cause them to sell out. 60% failure rate here, and thats not the floor of it!

    --

    Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
    1. Re:My speculation... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      60%? Maybe you should stop buying your parts from places where manufacturers dump their defective shit (aka PriceWatch).

      If 60% of the drives in IBM's own machines failed, they'd be out of business right now.

    2. Re:My speculation... by Ziviyr · · Score: 1

      I got three of the drives from brick and mortar, the newest one is the one from there that isn't dead. Then I got two replacements from IBM, one was horrific, the other is still running but I really don't trust it.

      --

      Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
    3. Re:My speculation... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Flamebait

      sir YOU ARE a dumb fuck.

      saying pricewatch is a bad place to shop is like saying don't go to the flea market cause "you'll get taken"

      only dumb fuckers like you need to avoid pricewatch.

      for all others with half a clue....we know that pricewatch is a useful reference...if you don't have your head up your ass...like the parent poster.

    4. Re:My speculation... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And you wonder why your computer randomly reboots et. all.

      You sir are obviously much l33ter than moi. Please shine some l33tness on me.

      Half the shit on pricewatch is probably stolen or damaged anyway.

      Go away, thanks.

    5. Re:My speculation... by FrostedChaos · · Score: 1

      Um... what's wrong with pricewatch? I've ordered from there many times, never had a problem.

      Of course, I didn't order the absolute cheapest parts on sale (in most cases) because I knew they would be crap. I also didn't order speakers from there because I wanted to listen to my speakers before buying.

      So in conclusion, if you really feel like going to a retailer and paying 2x the OEM price, that's fine with me. But don't use it as an excuse to show off your superior "knowledge" because the rest of us will laugh at you. (And there's still no guarantee the salesmen won't rip you off. There is no substitute for knowing what you're doing.)

      --
      "Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental." -Slashdot
  28. US Manufacturing by Citizen+of+Earth · · Score: 2, Insightful

    'last' HD manufacturer in the U.S., and reasons why the industry is ailing

    Because American workers are over-paid and the "strong" US dollar makes imports cheaper?

    1. Re:US Manufacturing by OneFix · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I wish this were the case, but it is generally not that American workers are over-paid, but the workers in other countries are under-paid (read exploited).

      Just look at what happens...when was the last time you heard about the cheap imports from France...how about the UK...what about Germany...or Canada...or even Japan (most of the cheap electronics are made in countries like Korea and Hong Kong).

      No...the truth is, it's just cheaper to buy a worker in developing/under-developed countries.

      But, in the long run, it helps drive down the cost of an American worker which makes every country's workers suffer.

      ...Now, don't get me wrong, there are overpaid American workers, but there are also overpaid workers in most every industry and in most every developed country.

    2. Re:US Manufacturing by Citizen+of+Earth · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I wish this were the case, but it is generally not that American workers are over-paid, but the workers in other countries are under-paid (read exploited).

      The economics of this sort of thing are all relative. If I lived in a third-world country and made one-tenth of my present salary, effectively I would be wealthy beyond all belief. Yeah, I'd sure be exploited!

      Just look at what happens...when was the last time you heard about the cheap imports from France...how about the UK...what about Germany...or Canada

      Cheap is a relative term, but costs are significantly lower for manufacturers in Canada, for instance. That is why so many American cars are made in Canada. Canadian workers are paid relatively less (or, as I said before, American workers are over-paid), and the 'artifically' low currency-exchange rate makes importing much more sensible than manufacturing in the US. You also get an educated and skilled workforce as good as or better than in the US. OTOH, the US is a big market with a big appetite for imports. Common business sense says to move cost centers (manufacturing/production) to Canada (or various other countries) and profit centers (sales) to America.

      No...the truth is, it's just cheaper to buy a worker in developing/under-developed countries.

      Well yeah. In a system of global economics, each country has different circumstances and can offer different comparative advantages. Third-world countries sometimes have raw natural resources to trade, but they always have cheap labour to offer.

      But really, one needs to question the notion that these workers are 'exploited', given that the 'exploitation' happens on a voluntary basis. The only conclusion is that the 'exploitation' (by first-world standards) is significantly better than the alternative, presumably subsistance farming, begging, or starving to death. The anti-globalization protesters never seem to grapple with this issue. [A prosperous nation doesn't just appear overnight, and international welfare will never create one. Prosperity is the result of a long bootstrapping process that only possible under a responsible government.]

      But, in the long run, it helps drive down the cost of an American worker which makes every country's workers suffer.

      Bullshit. In the long run, the economics balance out to where workers are compensated in proportion to their skills and relative worth. Everybody wins in this circumstance. Perhaps American workers will ultimately stop being over-paid, but the rest of the world won't suffer because of this. With greater economic efficiency, the global standard of living increases.

      but there are also overpaid workers in most every industry and in most every developed country

      That's pretty much a tautology. For various political and fixed forces, some workers are paid more than they are worth, because the free market has been retarded from functioning properly.

    3. Re:US Manufacturing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      I wonder if so much of the gang and drug activity in our inner cities is a result of an artificially high minimum wage which makes unskilled people less employable.

    4. Re:US Manufacturing by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
      Perhaps American workers will ultimately stop being over-paid, but the rest of the world won't suffer because of this.

      Just as soon as the Arabs accept payment for oil in Euros. Given GWB's apparent support for Israel, this could happen any minute.

      The dollar derives its value from the fact that all Oil consumers MUST pay in dollars, so to buy oil, you must first buy dollars, while the oil producers have dollars more than they can spend.

      Any minute this will change, and no one will want UDS any more What does the US export to support the dollar? Apart from Gansta rap and hollywood moves? Nothing They did export planes, but Airbus is cheaper to buy and run.

      Incidentally, a significant amount of cheap electonics IS made in Europe. (Ever heard of Dell, Compaq, or IBM?)

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    5. Re:US Manufacturing by OneFix · · Score: 2

      The economics of this sort of thing are all relative. If I lived in a third-world country and made one-tenth of my present salary, effectively I would be wealthy beyond all belief. Yeah, I'd sure be exploited!

      Of course the statement in your origonal post seemed to overlook this fact by just saying that American workers are over-paid...what you should have said is that American workers are paid more than those working in under-developed/developing nations. Which is why the average American worker has a higher standard of living than say someone living in Mexico or Korea. And I would agree with that, but I hardly think that justifies the origonal statement.

      Bullshit. In the long run, the economics balance out to where workers are compensated in proportion to their skills and relative worth. Everybody wins in this circumstance. Perhaps American workers will ultimately stop being over-paid, but the rest of the world won't suffer because of this. With greater economic efficiency, the global standard of living increases.

      Wrong...history has proven that the gap between the haves (those living in developed countries) and the have-nots (those living in under-developed/developing countries) becomes larger over time. Your assumption is that as soon as american workers are willing to accept a lower salary, then that will increase the salary of someone working in an under-developed/developing country...and that just isn't true. When the cost of an american worker goes down, then the cost of a similar worker in another country has to go down as well...it doesn't as you say "balance out". As countries become more prosperous, then their workers get paid more, and then eventually their workers lose jobs to ppl in another developing country...

      Consumers will never pay more for the same exact product (except in certain circumstances like memory where supply is limited). This is the problem with this viewpoint...as soon as an "exploited" worker's salary starts to go up, the company that once prefered to exploit the workers in this once poor country will find a new country to exploit (probably somewhere like Afganistan)...

      The flaw in this thinking is that companies that move production to countries where their workers are willing to work for lower pay will somehow stay there because their workers either have a higher education (how does that work...poor workers in developing countries are somehow given better opportunities)??? Or are making a better product...

      I don't know about you, but most of the products I've seen from developing nations are of poorer quality than those from developed nations (Just ask someone if they'ld prefer to drive a Kia or a Toyota)...

      It's simple, exploited workers in developing nations are kept on a short leash and if they demand more or become "difficult", the same company that didn't hesitate to give them a lower pay/less benifits/etc will move to another location where the workers are not as "problematic"...

      Like it or not, companies that do this have no loyalty to their employees...

    6. Re:US Manufacturing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am a former employee of Western Digital. When the factory was moved from Singapore to Malaysia, the primary reason given was the tax incentive. Malaysia was giving us several years of tax-free operation in exchange for moving into their country.

      Cheaper salaries was a lesser concern.

    7. Re:US Manufacturing by Citizen+of+Earth · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      I wonder if so much of the gang and drug activity in our inner cities is a result of an artificially high minimum wage which makes unskilled people less employable.

      I'd suspect that a big component of the problem is cultural (physical abuse, substance abuse, poverty, lack of education, lack of motivation, recruitment into street gangs).

      But, minimum wage is indeed an artificial control, though there are many delicate balances between economic and social agendas in such things. Minimum wages are basically aimed at preventing low-skill workers from being exploited within their own country. The substitute, I guess, is fewer low-paying jobs and more welfare. Of course, under-the-table arrangements exist for less-than-minimum-wage employment.

    8. Re:US Manufacturing by Citizen+of+Earth · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Just as soon as the Arabs accept payment for oil in Euros. Given GWB's apparent support for Israel, this could happen any minute.

      International payments are usually exchanged into the local currency of the supplier, though there is undoubtedly an underground economy based on US dollars in many poor countries. Governments don't have all that much control over underground economies, neverminding what currency they use, and governments are usually trying to stamp them out.

      In any case, Americans would have little trouble getting a hold of Euros if they needed them.

      The dollar derives its value from the fact that all Oil consumers MUST pay in dollars, so to buy oil, you must first buy dollars, while the oil producers have dollars more than they can spend.

      Nonsense.

      BTW, America imports only about 20% of the oil it uses from the Middle East (or was that only 20% of only imports?). Do you know where most of its oil comes from? America. Do you know where it imports the most oil from? Canada.

      Any minute this will change, and no one will want UDS any more What does the US export to support the dollar? Apart from Gansta rap and hollywood moves? Nothing They did export planes, but Airbus is cheaper to buy and run.

      More nonsense. America exports a large variety of products.

    9. Re:US Manufacturing by Citizen+of+Earth · · Score: 2

      Of course the statement in your origonal post seemed to overlook this fact by just saying that American workers are over-paid...

      American workers on average, compared to all other workers in the world, including the industrialized nations, are paid disportionality high wages for the value of the work that they do. I think that "over-paid" is a pretty good summary of this situation.

      what you should have said is that American workers are paid more than those working in under-developed/developing nations.

      And industrialized nations.

      Which is why the average American worker has a higher standard of living than say someone living in Mexico or Korea.

      South Koreans have a surprisingly high standard of living, almost on par with industrialized nations ($16K+ per capita purchasing-power parity). North Korea is pretty much a poster child of Communistic poverty. Mexico has big problems with government corruption and low education. An interesting related stat is that 80% of Canadians have a higher standard of living than 80% of Americans (except for the richest quintile). Don't delude yourself that America is the end-all and be-all of living standards or that it is immune from the laws of economics. Farmer subsidies, tarrifs, etc., serve to lower your standard of living.

      Your assumption is that as soon as american workers are willing to accept a lower salary, then that will increase the salary of someone working in an under-developed/developing country...and that just isn't true.

      You're confusing cause and effect. Basically, I am saying that freer trade will cause American wages to go down, because they are disportionately high w.r.t. making products elsewhere for cheaper.

      Salaries in developing countries will increase as their labour forces acquire more skills and improved infrastructure for more production capability. As they are able to do more work, such as with India and software development, they will get more work and Americans will need to become more competitive (or reduce wages). Competition is a great equalizer.

      In the bigger picture, economics is not a zero-sum game. It's one of few processes in which everyone can win.

      When the cost of an american worker goes down, then the cost of a similar worker in another country has to go down as well...it doesn't as you say "balance out".

      I don't see why. All that matters is that the foreign worker be competitive against the American worker. He could even be paid more if his productivity was higher. The Japanese steel industry, for example, is about twice as productive per worker than the American steel industry. This is mostly the result of investment in infrastructure, which I guess just isn't a sexy thing to do in America. I don't know what their wages are like.

      As countries become more prosperous, then their workers get paid more, and then eventually their workers lose jobs to ppl in another developing country...

      Well yeah, as developing countries become more competitive, workers in more-developed countries will need to justify their wages. Invariably, low-skill/low-pay jobs will migrate to the less developed nations, since they can supply low-skilled labour cheaper.

      But, these developing nations that loose low-skill jobs to less developed nations will also acquire the critical mass of education, skills, and infrastructure to go to the "next level" and do more-complicated work, like build cars, microchips, hard drives, and televisions. Since their workers will presumably have (and require) lower wages than Americans, jobs of manufacturing hard drives, etc., will migrate away from America to "middle-tier" nations. How many television manufactures are in the US? Zero. How many hard drive makers? When IBM finishes pulling the plug, zero. America is not competitive at doing these things.

      OTOH, greater global economic efficiency means that you can buy more stuff for cheaper. If you were to suffer a 10% loss in wages but get a 20% increase in purchasing power, you've come out ahead. Your standard of living will have increased.

      Consumers will never pay more for the same exact product (except in certain circumstances like memory where supply is limited). This is the problem with this viewpoint...as soon as an "exploited" worker's salary starts to go up, the company that once prefered to exploit the workers in this once poor country will find a new country to exploit (probably somewhere like Afganistan)...

      You say that as if there were something wrong with it. Perhaps you're a protectionist? Also, it takes a large amount of infrastructure and a fair amount of labour skill to make memory chips, so Afghanistan won't be very competitive in that market for a long time.

      I don't know about you, but most of the products I've seen from developing nations are of poorer quality than those from developed nations (Just ask someone if they'ld prefer to drive a Kia or a Toyota)...

      An automobile is another complex commodity. Developing nations have a way to go before being truly competitive in that market. Textiles and farming, OTOH, for example, require significantly fewer skills. Ultimately, it's the consumer who decides what is the best product at the best price. If Kias suck, then don't buy them.

      Like it or not, companies that do this have no loyalty to their employees...

      Nor should they. Why should anyone pay more than they need to, including employers?

      Assuming that you're an American worker, I think that you've been far too pampered for far too long. The rest of the world is becoming more competitive every day. You will need to either become more productive or your wages will decrease.

    10. Re:US Manufacturing by Citizen+of+Earth · · Score: 2

      I am a former employee of Western Digital. When the factory was moved from Singapore to Malaysia, the primary reason given was the tax incentive. Malaysia was giving us several years of tax-free operation in exchange for moving into their country.

      Interesting. Government subsidies interfere with a free market. Most trade agreements seek to reduce subsidies, though don't tell that to George W. and the farmland states that voted for him.

    11. Re:US Manufacturing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That makes no sense. I'm not going to argue whether or not minimum wages are a good thing, but why would lowering the amount unskilled workers are paid make legitimate employment more attractive? These things exist because they're more lucrative than legal employment. Making legal employment less lucrative at the bottom end would make the drug trade and other organized crime even more appealing to people with no skills.

      The West European nations all have far higher minimum wages without the ghettos we have, so that kinda blows a hole in your argument, doesn't it?

    12. Re:US Manufacturing by Citizen+of+Earth · · Score: 2

      The Japanese steel industry, for example, is about twice as productive per worker than the American steel industry. This is mostly the result of investment in infrastructure, which I guess just isn't a sexy thing to do in America.

      Actually, one might speculate that during the same period of time, Americans were busy pouring their investment dollars into dot-coms rather than hard infrastructure.

    13. Re:US Manufacturing by Citizen+of+Earth · · Score: 2

      I don't know about you, but most of the products I've seen from developing nations are of poorer quality than those from developed nations (Just ask someone if they'ld prefer to drive a Kia or a Toyota)...

      The first generation of Japanese automobiles, which arrived in America in the 1970s, also sucked.

    14. Re:US Manufacturing by jeorgen · · Score: 1
      I wish this were the case, but it is generally not that American workers are over-paid, but the workers in other countries are under-paid (read exploited).

      This is a fundamental misundersanding of how wages develop over time. Truth is, the more work is exported to your so called exploited workers, the higher their salaries will be. See it as development aid that is actually working. If the jobs were not exported, the so called exploited workers would make zilch, nada. Only way to give the poor people something without them producing something is to have a communist system. That is, whether you are aware of it or not, what you're advocating.

      Just look at what happens...when was the last time you heard about the cheap imports from France...how about the UK...what about Germany...or Canada...or even Japan (most of the cheap electronics are made in countries like Korea and Hong Kong).

      You wish other parts of the world did not exist?

      But, in the long run, it helps drive down the cost of an American worker which makes every country's workers suffer.

      This would only hold true if everything we produced was utterly useless. Since it is not, everyone gets richer in the long run.

      /jeorgen

    15. Re:US Manufacturing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry Mr. Free-market. Cars get made in Canada because (a) shipping parts across the ocean is cheaper than shipping cars (taxes, shipping cost, etc)and (b) Canada is not Taiwan in terms of employment cost, but it sure beats the US.

      So you are only half right. A 'better-educated' workforce is not all that useful in drone labor. Try again.

    16. Re:US Manufacturing by Citizen+of+Earth · · Score: 2

      So you are only half right.

      There are probably a dozen significant factors and neither of us have given exhaustive lists. But I think that by not mentioning it you are underrating the undervalued-by-25% currency-exchange rate of the Canadian dollar.

    17. Re:US Manufacturing by markmoss · · Score: 2

      The West European nations all have far higher minimum wages without the ghettos we have, so that kinda blows a hole in your argument, doesn't it?

      They've also got far higher unemployment, youth gangs, and soaring crime rates that really do endanger the middle class (vs. America where the gangbangers stay in their own neighborhoods and mostly shoot each other). I'm not fond of the results of the American "system", but if things seem to be better in Europe, it's just because their reporters don't play up the problems as much.

      Most of the unemployed (and virtually unemployable) young Euro criminals are "white", because most of their population is, but where they have "colored" immigrants or guestworkers (Turks, Pakistanis, etc.) they have ghettos. I suspect that some of these are far worse than any American ghetto, and I'm not sure if white English working-class neighborhoods are much better than American ghettos by now - except that their gangbangers can walk over too a better neighborhood without drawing too much attention and find someone actually worth mugging...

      Also, Europe has a lot more blatant racist violence - German skinheads burning Turks in their apartment houses, British skinheads hunting for "Pakis", christians and moslems both attacking jews... Sure we have such incidents in the USA - and every single one makes the news coast to coast, causing a reaction strong enough to scare the other racists, homophobes, and other sorts of creeps into staying home for a while. Seems like the Euro authorities try to sweep their incidents under the carpet.

    18. Re:US Manufacturing by markmoss · · Score: 2

      Most of the steel infrastructure in Japan is much, much older than the dot-com era. But for obvious reasons it had to be totally rebuilt after WWII (much of this paid for by the same American taxpayers who had paid to demolish it in the first place), while the American steel industry is still running many pre-WWII plants. And I suspect that the Japanese have also replaced equipment faster since the war - there hasn't been much interest in this country in basic industries, or in anything with 20 year payoffs. And it might actually make quite good sense that the US isn't investing in large steel plants - it may be far cheaper to buy it from foreigners than to make it here.

      By the way, one sort of steelmaking thrives in modern America - small mills producing high quality steels to order. These plants are modern. They don't make steel from ore, but purchase what they can't get by recycling. They get a fairly high price per pound, but quality and quick delivery make it worthwhile for many uses. It's no surprise that such a plant makes fewer tons per man-hour than a gigantic modern plant, which can only make a few kinds of product.

    19. Re:US Manufacturing by markmoss · · Score: 2

      The economics of this sort of thing are all relative. If I lived in a third-world country and made one-tenth of my present salary, effectively I would be wealthy beyond all belief. Yeah, I'd sure be exploited!

      I was in Malaysia a year ago. (This is one of the relatively successful third-world countries.) Of the half-dozen engineers I dealt with, only the chief engineer owned a car. None of them could afford to marry before 30. We were in a rural region, but the air was polluted enough to affect my sinuses - in particular, around meal-time the air fills up with smoke from all the cookfires. (I didn't ask what kind of solid fuel they were burning...)

    20. Re:US Manufacturing by Citizen+of+Earth · · Score: 2

      And it might actually make quite good sense that the US isn't investing in large steel plants - it may be far cheaper to buy it from foreigners than to make it here.

      This must be why George W. as erected the latest round of tariffs on imported steel. No, wait a second...

    21. Re:US Manufacturing by OneFix · · Score: 2

      As a general rule, the first generation of any product sucks. The Japanese were just beginning to get into the market. Most of these manufacturers do not have that problem. Most are somehow related to companies that have been in the business for years...like it or not, companies like IBM have no excuse for making a bad product.

    22. Re:US Manufacturing by OneFix · · Score: 2

      The dollar derives its value from the fact that all Oil consumers MUST pay in dollars

      Wrong, The dollar remains high valued because the US is where all of the "money" is...it's the same reason why english is the international language of commerce. It's the whole golden rule concept...those who hold the gold make the rules...

      Incidentally, a significant amount of cheap electonics IS made in Europe. (Ever heard of Dell, Compaq, or IBM?)

      I don't know a whole lot about Dell or Compaq, but I know that IBM still assembles their machines in their market...so, an american machine gets made somewhere close to the US and a european machine gets assembled in europe. And then again, I don't think many ppl would call Dell, Compaq, or IBM cheap.

      And, isn't it funny that at least Dell an IBM are American companies (not certain about Compaq)...this is why the dollar is higher...

    23. Re:US Manufacturing by CommieLib · · Score: 1

      What you're saying is generally true, but you're overlooking the benefit of the cheaper production cost...

      This lowered cost is a form of wealth. More importantly, it is a REAL form of wealth, as opposed to an artifically inflated wage.

      --
      If your bitterest enemies are people who hack the heads off civilians, then I would say you're doing something right.
    24. Re:US Manufacturing by ralan · · Score: 1

      Your economic theory is collapsing... Canadian factory workers are generally paid about 25 to 30 percent more than their American counterparts. This is why you can't drive across the border, change your US dollars to Canadian, and buy a cheap GM auto... GM autos cost a lot more in Canada... But, in New Zealand, the NZ Dollar is worth about 30 or 40 cents. And, a NZ factory worker is paid on a matching scale as a US worker. If a US worker makes 20kUS, then a NZ worker would make 20kNZ. NZ is a good place to go shopping! I own two homes. One in Shanghai, the other in Washington, DC. The Shanghai home is smaller and not nearly as well built as my American home. However, it cost quite a bit more. I have noticed that whenever, and wherever a factory owner puts up dorms, cafeterias, and pays lowered wages because of these "extra" benefits, the worker is always getting shafted. It was true when it was Blue Diamond Coal Company in Hardburly, Ky and it is true when it is Intel in Indonesia or the Japanese factories in China. American workers are not overpaid. They just can't compete against workers who make 30 dollars a month and work 80 to 100 hours a week. This is going on all over the world. Take a tour of a Chinese factory. You will understand. Americans invented Television. No televisions are made in America. We invented hand held video recorders. None are made here. We invented Personal Computers. Few are made here. We invented disk drives. None are made here. We invented memory chips. None are made here. We invented microwave ovens. None are made here. Our clothes come from Pakistan and China. Our cars come from Japan and Korea. Even our Dell computers are now made in Shanghai. Everything Black and Decker makes comes from China. Now, just how is it that the American worker supposed to compete? Minimum wage employees in the textiles industry are loosing their jobs by the hundreds of thousands. Entire towns in South Carolina are unemployed. These were the lowest paid workers in America, but they could not compete with virtual slaves in Pakistan and China.

    25. Re:US Manufacturing by Dudes · · Score: 1

      I think you will find it was a Scotsman who invented television.

      The Japanese invented camcorders.

      The British invented personal computers.

      Good other points though.

    26. Re:US Manufacturing by nuggz · · Score: 2

      GM cars are cheaper in Canada then the US.
      Check out gmcanada.com

      The high US dollar drives down the cost of imports and raises the relative cost of US labour.

      Standard of Living in Canada and the US is similar, but the relative curency shift makes some things a little odd.
      For instance people only want to spend 50% of their annual income on a car. Your salary is still paid in local currency, the car must be priced in the local currency.
      This is why companies hedge against currency fluxuations.

    27. Re:US Manufacturing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I suspect that some of these are far worse than any American ghetto, and I'm not sure if white English working-class neighborhoods are much better than American ghettos by now

      Wrong.

      Seems like the Euro authorities try to sweep their incidents under the carpet.

      Wrong again.

      US is, by very far, the most violent society of the Western countries (and even, more violent than a number of third world countries).

      You are just trying to argue it's not the case, "violence" is magically hidden in Europe. It's not the case.

    28. Re:US Manufacturing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      And, isn't it funny that at least Dell an IBM are American companies (not certain about Compaq)...

      ... in many of which almost all components are manufactured in Asia.

    29. Re:US Manufacturing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Interesting. Government subsidies interfere with a free market.

      It's also called "investment". Malaysia gives "tax-free" operation, calculating the resulting general balance on Malaysia society is positive. It would be the same in a free market.

  29. who needs a better hard drive? by bigsexyjoe · · Score: 1
    I don't. I haven't filled up my 8 GB. I guess if you download lots of music and stuff an 80 GB would be nice but I think most people will never fill their hard drives.

    The business is a victim of its own success just success just like the whole computer industry is or will be IMNVHO (in my not very humble opinion).

    1. Re:who needs a better hard drive? by kalislashdot · · Score: 1

      Or rip DVDs, that takes lots of space too.

    2. Re:who needs a better hard drive? by bigsexyjoe · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      yes, i did post before reading and I apologize. I make an ass out of myself every time I post. (I only get modded up if I make a really big ass though.) Replying to myself offtopic is pretty obnoxious so maybe it will all work out for the best...

    3. Re:who needs a better hard drive? by dsoltesz · · Score: 2
      Uhhh some of us have jobs. We use computers in our jobs. We have lots of spreadsheets, documents, images, data sets, and so forth. In some industries, I'm a low-end user sucking up 60 GB, with a lot of files backed up and deleted to make space for new work. A buddy of mine has around 900 GB, which he can only keep enough free space on for work by transferring stuff off to DVD or tape -- he has single files that won't even fit on a CD. I wonder what kind of disk space the folks at Skywalker Ranch are using...

      Yeah, while a number of folks won't use more than 8GB, a whole lot more need much more.

      Others of us use our computers for more than checking our e-mail. Not that the hard drive manufacturers give a shit about us at home, but I'm sucking up easily 40 GB with data (not counting my MP3's, downloaded software archive, and pr0n). I've got about 15 CDs worth of data files that have been deleted from my computers. And two of my computers also have (on top of 2GB system partitions and 8GB software partitions) 10GB each reserved for games, which I frequently have to uninstall in order to make room for the lastest-greatest cuz 10 GB just ain't as big as it used to be. Hell, I got 4 GB just for temp space, and sometimes that gets dangerously close to full.

      What kind of data sucks up disk space? Digital photos, audio, video, Photoshop, Illustrator, Penthouse screensavers, AutoCAD, GIS data, UltraFractal images, satellite imagery, climate data, financial data, medical imagery, architectural drawings, circuit diagrams, tax records, databases of all flavors, source code, web design work, Bryce, games, digital elevation models, VRML worlds, Matrix wallpaper, fonts, geneology research, Maya, recipes, reference documents... and, of course, e-mail. And if you have enough decent software, there goes even more disk space.

    4. Re:who needs a better hard drive? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can use up 5-6 gig in keeping KDE current from CVS. This includes the all the source, the object files, the libraries, the resource files, and the then everything installed. About once a month I checkout Xfree86 from CVS and compile it. I also compile my own gtk+ and family from source. All of this can really add up in space.

    5. Re:who needs a better hard drive? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And as Bill Gates once said - "256kb should be enough memory for anyone!"

    6. Re:who needs a better hard drive? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      3 GB just for unreal, 8GB for my gamebox is just not enough.

    7. Re:who needs a better hard drive? by FueledByRamen · · Score: 1

      Back when I ran Linux, I compiled everything from source. I had KDE3, several flavors of the DRI project, GLIDE (yes, I had a Voodoo3), 2 revisions of the kernel at all times, everything down to my sound drivers (ALSA) were kept in /usr/src. I wondered why I was out of disk space. So, I deleted the whole directory (system working fine for a day - must not need to recompile anymore). Low and behold, 10 gigs free!

      --
      Every cloud has a silver lining (except for the mushroom shaped ones, which have a lining of Iridium & Strontium 90)
    8. Re:who needs a better hard drive? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

      Mod me up. I have made a really big ass.

      Mode0x13

    9. Re:who needs a better hard drive? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I sure do. I have about 5 GB of freespace left between my 120 GB and 45 GB harddrives. 160 GB of space is easy to fill.

    10. Re:who needs a better hard drive? by geekoid · · Score: 2

      If the people at Skywalker Ranch are keeping there work files on there local computer, there admin should be slapped.

      Your use is in the very, very tiny minority of computer needs.
      That said, you should be using a SCSI disk array and not using an IBM clone.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    11. Re:who needs a better hard drive? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd have to take issue with the part that says:

      "A whole lot more of us needs to use more than 8 gigs"

      I realize the photo-industry and the video production industry use a lot of hd space, but they don't use it all at the same time, and those same industries don't keep everything on hd's except for temporary back-ups.

  30. Song for the slashdot subscriber: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    With apologies to Ben Folds.

    So you wanted
    To make some change,
    Inflate your stock price,
    For once, get paid,

    Well, FUCK YOU TOO!

    Give me my money back,
    Give my my money back, slash dot.

    I want my money back.

    And don't forget
    to give me back my "Got Root?" shirt.

    I wish I hadn't
    Paid for reposts,
    Unclosed <I> tags,
    And misspelled head-lines (of course)

    Give me my money back,
    Give my my money back, slash dot.

    I want my money back.

    And don't forget

    And don't forget

    1. Re:Song for the slashdot subscriber: by YourMissionForToday · · Score: -1

      Nice. Are you the guy that wrote the Kinks song too? Those are some good shit!

    2. Re:Song for the slashdot subscriber: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      Nope, different guy. This was my first attempt.

  31. German Plane Crash!! by returnofthe_spork · · Score: -1
    Two planes collided in the air over Germany earlier tonight. Sadly, both Stephen King and *BSD were onboard the Boeing. Both are listed as 'missing, presumed dead.' A sad day for the world.

    1. Re:German Plane Crash!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      Actually, no, it was filled with young kids.

  32. Why the HDD business is ailing... by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 5, Informative

    Hard disk drive production capacity is far higher than demand, hence HDD manufacturers are having a harder time making a profit.

    Why is this? Well three simple reasons spring to mind.

    1. Current HDD capacities far exceed most users current demands.

    OK, so you have more than one drive in your PC, but how many of the billion PCs sold have more than one? Servers do but they make up a very small (albeit highly profitable) segment of the HDD market. Most are installed in desktop PCs and, nowadays, most people don't use more than a fraction of the 20GB+ drives that come with a modern PC. Heck, even 5GB, the kind of capacity that was typical on an entry-level desktop three years ago is more than most users get through.

    (Remember, not everyone is a MP3-fiend.)

    2. We're buying fewer PCs.

    Companies are buying fewer machines, as are private individuals.

    Companies because the desktops that they've being buying lately need to be replaced less frequently than was previously the case (because the desktops they bought three years ago still run today's software comfortably), and because they are finding few new areas (ones that they haven't already covered) where a PC will help streamline operations. The current state of the global economy doesn't help either.

    The same is essentially true for private individuals too. Anyone who wants a PC already likely has one, so why buy another one (especially in an uncertain economic climate) if the old one does the trick?

    No new PC means no new HDD.

    3. HDDs are now commodities.

    Once something becomes ubiquitous and readily available, as HDDs have in the last five years, then it no longer demands a price premium. Fiercer competition means small profits, which means less reason to stay in the business, especially a business that ties up so much capital in the first place (in R&D and fabrication costs).

    Examining these factors, especially the last one, it's not too hard to see why so many companies have exited the HDD business recently.

    --

    "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
    1. Re:Why the HDD business is ailing... by Medevo · · Score: 1

      I agree with you completely but I do believe that the first point should be clarified

      Within the past few years the difference between PC owners, and Server owners HDD demands has widened. However many hard drive companies try to sell the same hard drives for file servers to normal users.

      Servers are a very profitable market, as demand is always there for bigger and better hard drives, but the big customers have been trimming down and buying less, basically leaving more sellers then buyers.

      Some HDD companies need to be more like Intel with there products. They need a small 5gb hard drive that is CHEEP for PC buyers (like celeron). But they also need 100gb SCSI hard drives for big business (like p4).

      The companies that strike a balance will gain better market share, and more profits, putting them as a leader in the field, without massive R&D costs.

      Medevo

    2. Re:Why the HDD business is ailing... by silverhalide · · Score: 1

      The same is essentially true for private individuals too. Anyone who wants a PC already likely has one, so why buy another one (especially in an uncertain economic climate) if the old one does the trick? No new PC means no new HDD.

      Lest we forget that recent little IBM drive debacle... I'd say the hard drive industry has plenty of drives to sell!

    3. Re:Why the HDD business is ailing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good points, particularly the second one, about how we're buying fewer PC's. Check the industry news sites and you'll see that the recently completed second quarter was an out-and-out disaster for the PC market. Down something like 22.5% from the same quarter last year.

    4. Re:Why the HDD business is ailing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Heck, even 5GB, the kind of capacity that was typical on an entry-level desktop three years ago is more than most users get through.

      You make a good point. Something like this is true even for people who ARE big disk users.

      In the bad old days, it was a given that when I bought a new hard drive it would be running at 90% full within a month and I'd have to start deleting files to make room for new stuff.

      I installed 80 GB of Raid 0 stripe LAST YEAR, and it's still not full.

      I don't ever expect to get to the "forced to delete" stage again, actually. The drives will eventually fill up with cruft, and at that point I'll buy a new drive.

    5. Re:Why the HDD business is ailing... by essdodson · · Score: 2, Insightful

      We're soon approaching critical mass. The point at which everyone who wants a computer has one. Sales will drop off sharply as only those who require the top of the line buy new computers and those who don't require top of the line buy those discarded machines second hand.

      --
      scott
    6. Re:Why the HDD business is ailing... by LordLucless · · Score: 1

      Another factor would be the prevelance of cheap, large, removable storage devices, such as CD-Rs. Most new PCs come with CD-R drives, and blanks are dirt cheap.

      Now I can store a whole swag of information on a CD instead of on my HD, so I dont need as big a HD, or as many.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    7. Re:Why the HDD business is ailing... by Buck2 · · Score: 1

      (Remember, not everyone is a MP3-fiend.)

      pr0n, baby.

      Say one movie is a half gig ... that leaves a 20 gb drive with only forty flicks. Split this up among maybe four different genres and you can see it doesn't go very far.

      Remember that a company like easynews allows 6gb of downloads for $10 and will max out most home bandwidth (at least 768k from what I've seen).

      If you're a true pr0n fiend, you could buy an 80GB hdd for $130, then, given a 768k connection, spend the same amount at the newsserver over the next few weeks filling it up.

      --

      As my father lik@(munch munch)... ....
    8. Re:Why the HDD business is ailing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Change that to "...everyone who can afford a computer and wants one..." and I will say you are halfway right.

      There is a fucking tremendous untapped market out there in the third world for computing. As soon as they figure out how to feed and clothe themselves and we big 1st worlders stop shitting all over them they will become good little consumers like the rest of us.

      Flame away slashfags!!!!

    9. Re:Why the HDD business is ailing... by FueledByRamen · · Score: 1

      Who the heck downloads a 512mb movie file? I never go for anything less than 1gb, and even then the quality might not be high enough. You want to see high quality movies, go download The Last Castle in 2 CD-parts from eDonkey. Now that's a DVD rip (assuming you get the same ones I did). Damn good movie, too.

      --
      Every cloud has a silver lining (except for the mushroom shaped ones, which have a lining of Iridium & Strontium 90)
    10. Re:Why the HDD business is ailing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you need the length of a 2CD movie to get you "in the mood", maybe you're downloading the wrong kind of movies...

    11. Re:Why the HDD business is ailing... by Buck2 · · Score: 1

      VCD's are ~512 megs, dude ... I'm talking about "the masses" here. Not someone into dl'ing DVD comparable flicks.

      If you wanna throw that out as a data point then you're only reinforcing what I was saying, anyways ... which is that people who dl movies are more apt to buy hard drives.

      I don't know what eDonkey is. I guess I'll go hunt it's ass down. NYUK NYUK

      --

      As my father lik@(munch munch)... ....
    12. Re:Why the HDD business is ailing... by Mr+Rohan · · Score: 1

      We're soon approaching critical mass. The point at which everyone who wants a computer has one. Sales will drop off sharply as only those who require the top of the line buy new computers and those who don't require top of the line buy those discarded machines second hand.

      Maybe this is true in many parts of the developed world, but there are a lot more potential customers than just the US - billions of them in-fact.

      Currently price/performance doesn't mean sales in those markets are profitable - but assuming prices can come down enough then there's a huge market still untapped... course it was this sentiment that fuelled many dot.com failures !!

    13. Re:Why the HDD business is ailing... by Jacek+Poplawski · · Score: 2

      1. Current HDD capacities far exceed most users current demands.

      So all we need is another generation of Windows, which will increase disk usage. For example every run of application will save on disk detailed log (something like strace) to help find problems when something will halt operating system. This will be extremely useful today, inside "War With Terrorism". Don't let your computer be infected - buy new opearating system with extended logging features. Buy it now, or your computer will be destroyed or will help terrorists. You have been warned.

    14. Re:Why the HDD business is ailing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Current HDD capacities far exceed most users current demands
      That's exactly what they said about the first 100M drives. I remember buying my first machine with a 120M drive and thinking "that's going to take forever to fill up".

      Today my VCR is collecting dust, and I capture TV broadcasts on harddisk (capture in real-time mpeg2 8000 kbps, strip commercials and convert to DivX later). I've got two drives in that system, 40 + 80G: sufficient, but a bit more would be nice so I don't have to catch up with DivXing and CD-burning so often to make room for a new capture.

      And I'm sure that when 1 TB becomes common, that too will fill up (for example because I don't take the time for DivXing and burning anymore, and leave everything on HD in mpeg2 for fast, easy and HQ access.)
    15. Re:Why the HDD business is ailing... by Surak · · Score: 2

      OK, so you have more than one drive in your PC, but how many of the billion PCs sold have more than one? Servers do but they make up a very small (albeit highly profitable) segment of the HDD market. Most are installed in desktop PCs and, nowadays, most people don't use more than a fraction of the 20GB+ drives that come with a modern PC. Heck, even 5GB, the kind of capacity that was typical on an entry-level desktop three years ago is more than most users get through.

      Let's add to MP3 fiends: gamers, 3D CAD users (I have assemblies that are 5 GB by themselves), animators, musicians, software developers, videographers, etc. These people need high--end computers.

      Everyone else uses them as glorified typewriters and Internet terminals. These people can get by on 500 MHz processors, 128 MB of RAM, and 5-7 GB hard drives.

      Unfortunately 'everyone else' is the majority of people. What is needed here is a killer app for this new hardware. Something that REQUIRES all of this newfound processor speed, hard drive capacity and RAM capacity. The Internet has been the killer app.

      The Internet, as we all know, doesn't require gobs and gobs of speed. Not yet. Not while dialup lines are the primary way people connect to the Internet. Not until broadband is available everywhere for cheap will the Internet be a viable killer app for new hardware.

      Digital photography and video were supposed to be a killer app. But these are a niche market segments, and compression has gotten better and better.....for some people this is a killer app, for others, its not.

      The problem is that there is no one universal killer app anymore. Advances in hardware technology are increasingly moving toward being utilized differently by different market niches. And computer manufacturers didn't imagine that the ILECs would try to derail broadband access like they have...because otherwise, this would be THE universal killer app...but it's not, and it's not likely to be anytime in the near future.

      We need to abandon this whole concept of Internet as killer app I think for now...if we want technology to progress, it has to have something to rally around. In the late 70s, early 80s it was the spreadsheet. In the late 80s/early 90s it was the GUI and desktop publishing. In the mid-to-late 90s it was the Internet. Now its....?

      Right you can't name it without saying "high speed Internet." But that's not a reality... and until that is, I daresay Moore's law will slow to a crawl.

    16. Re:Why the HDD business is ailing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The original poster talks about pr0n, which doesn't need to be of *that* high quality. Mostly 1 CD DivX rip of a pr0n DVD is more than enough.

    17. Re:Why the HDD business is ailing... by Lord_Slepnir · · Score: 3, Funny

      They actually already have it. It's called windows CEMENT. The power of CE. The stability of ME. The User-Freindlyness of NT

    18. Re:Why the HDD business is ailing... by jelle · · Score: 2

      "3. HDDs are now commodities."

      As are operating systems and word processors, but you haven't seen the price of those become marginalized (yet)...

      --
      --- Hindsight is 20/20, but walking backwards is not the answer.
    19. Re:Why the HDD business is ailing... by WhiteWolf666 · · Score: 1
      There is a definite killer Internet app, and as broadband deployment rises, it becomes more and more popular: P2P filesharing. Sure, in most cases it is illegal, but that hasn't stopped anyone. My two sisters, who do nothing else but wordprocess and 'surf', do a lot of P2P sharing. So do all of their friends. So do all of my freinds. In fact, myself, who I consider fairly computer literate (runs linux, does some programming, hacks random things together), do very little P2P sharing.


      Hell, half of the people I know doing P2P sharing just use it for downloading over their phoneline. They just can't wait till broadband is deployed in their area. Don't worry, its becoming a reality, I feel, even though deployment rates have slowed down lately. I feel that in a few years, prices will have to drop, as there is a lot of untapped demand out there, that is waiting for a commonplace broadband solution in the ~$30/month price range.

      --
      WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
    20. Re:Why the HDD business is ailing... by qnonsense · · Score: 1
      "3. HDDs are now commodities."
      • As are operating systems and word processors, but you haven't seen the price of those become marginalized (yet)...

        • That's why monopolies are illegal.
      --
      There comes a time in every man's life when he must say, "No mother! I do not want any more Jell-O!"
  33. Slashdot Editors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    are absolute morons...

    I bet 30 submitted stories that were much more interesting were denied and replaced by this filth.

  34. My experiences don't jibe with yours by Gekko · · Score: 0, Funny

    IBM's drives are usually rock solid. They often outlast there competors by a long shot. They had a series of about 1 or 2 drives, I forget which models Im sure someone will remember. I find that in most of my servers IBM drives last longer and perform better.

    --
    I mod down any one who says "I'm sure I will get modded down for this"
    1. Re:My experiences don't jibe with yours by Ziviyr · · Score: 1

      Yeah, thats how it seemed when I bought my first pair of drives, now dubbed "deathstars" by a large number of people.

      If IBM had a long time reputation of being junk I wouldn't have bought their drives in the first place.

      My point is that I've had a 60% failure rate, and one of those 3 failed drives was actually shorting my powersupply. Which is inexcusable to me.

      Note I did give IBM a second chance, which is why the failure rate is 60% and not 75%. But that was out of necessity after both drives in my system started puking on themselves.

      --

      Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
    2. Re:My experiences don't jibe with yours by kesuki · · Score: 5, Interesting

      From what I understand, Maxtor's engineers had reverse engineered the problem and realized that IBM was recertifying old platters stored in hungary for the newer GMR head drives. Those old platters were designed to be used in 20 GB HDs not 80 GB, so basically the problem was the same one as using a hole punch in a Single Density floppy to make it Double density, formatting it might work, but it would be far more prone to errors and data loss.
      It's too bad they tarnished their reputation, but on the plus side, IBM drives are now really cheap, and a simple torture test with spinright or any program designed to contsantly overwrite the unused space on a drive should be able to punish the drive into failure, for easy replacment should it be using defective platters.

    3. Re:My experiences don't jibe with yours by slaker · · Score: 2

      I'd *really* like to know where you heard that. I correspond from time to time with folks with @maxtor.com addresses and never heard that particular rumor.

      Not that it doesn't make sense.

      Visit StorageForum

      --
      -- I wanna decide who lives and who dies - Crow T. Robot, MST3K
    4. Re:My experiences don't jibe with yours by Zathrus · · Score: 1

      The info on IBM using refurbished platters from Hungary was on /. awhile back... if you want to find the story, attempt to beat the search engine here into submission.

    5. Re:My experiences don't jibe with yours by AA0 · · Score: 1

      That did happen initially, with the 75 GXP series, but the 60s started to fail too, and the 120s have the warning on them, it isn't the used platters (to an extent it is, that is why there are so many more 75 failures then 60s) but the new IBM GMR technology is actually creating a large thermal gradient in the platters, over time, the wear patterns caused by the heat led the drive to failure.

      IBM found a way to pack more stuff, and make things faster, for a bunch less money. The problem was IBM did not charge less, they charged more for their drives, and of course, they did not last.

    6. Re:My experiences don't jibe with yours by WNight · · Score: 2

      It seems the 120gxp line has problems too.

      Check out this graph of access rates on a new 120GB 120GXP.

      http://www.storagereview.com/benchimages/IC35L12 0A VVA07_str.png
      (Watch for extra spaces)

      The spotty performance is likely caused by a ton of bad sectors which were moved to the end of the drive. If it's like that when it ships imagine what it'd be like in a few months. Check the STR graphs for other drives by Maxtor, WD, and Seagate. They aren't perfect smooth lines perhaps, but there's none of what you see on the IBM.

  35. Timothy's wild weekend by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll
    Tonight way going to be awesome. I just got home from work, took a shower, and now i was putting on my favorite outfit! It was Friday night and no one was going to stop me from having a good time tonight. I met up with some of my friends at a gas station down the street. We decided to hit a few clubs, then afterwards, if we didnt hook up with anyone, we were going to go to our favorite bar "Shouters". We had the whole night planned out. We were planning to be feeling the effects of tonight until late sunday evening, hopefully not monday when we all had to go back to work. So we all jumped in the cars and drove over to the strip. We went into a few clubs. danced with a few woman, but the clubs just were not jumpin tonight for some reason. We all began to grow bored of dancing and the loud music, so we all decided to go over to Shouters earlier then what we were planning. We started off with a few beers, then we all just said fuck it, and started ordering the hard shit. After a few shots, and a lot more drinks, I was completely waisted! My friends were not as messed up as i was. So i was sittin there for a while and this dude walks in. He walks right behind me and some how he hit me in the back of the head. I didnt know or care if it was accidental, but I jumped up and started to beat the shit out of this guy. My friend all pulled me off of him and the bartender told me to get the hell out of his bar! I told my friends to stay there and finish there drinks. I would be outside waiting for them. I had to piss so bad, and the only place that was open at that time around there was the bar, and since i couldnt go back in there, i had to look for a place outside. I saw an alley on the side of the building, and decided that I should just go into the alley and do my business. So i unzip my mants, pulled out my dick and proceeded to take a piss right there in the alley. After a few seconds i could hear foot steps behind me. "Hey you know you can get arrested for that!" I heard the voice say. "Fuck off" i told him, and kept going. The footsteps got closer, and as i turned to look, i could see that this guy was huge. about 6'5" 260lbs of hard muscle! I squeezed out the last few drops of piss and the guy grabbed my arms and held them tightly behind me. "

    What the hell are you doin!" He grabbed my dick. "Here let me shake it for ya" He dragged me further down the alley. I was trying to yell for help, but it was now use, He put his huge hand over my mouth. No one could hear me. He took me inside a door that led into a room with an old mattress laying on the floor. I was terrified! I didnt know what this guy was going to do with me. He took out some handcuffs and cuffed me to some poles that were on the wall. I was laying on the mattress with my hands cuffed to a pole. I was thinking that maybe he was some weirdo that wanted to torture me! I started to sweat profusely. He came over to me and told me to shut the fuck up. He gagged me so i couldnt yell or say anything. He started to pull my jeans off. Then he slid my boxers off. He walked over to a table and grabbed a pare of scissors. I was terrified. I thought this guy was about to cut my dick off. I tried to scream and yell, but it was no use, the gag was doing its job. No one could hear me. I sighed as he brought the scissors closer and he started to cut my shirt. I had never been so relieved in my life. He cut my shirt off, and i was laying there on the old matress completely nude, gagged and bound to the poles on the wall. He started to take his clothes off. He was completely naked. His body was well muscled, with very light hair on his chest and stomach. His dick was huge! the biggest i had ever seen before!! It was as big around as a beer can and about 7" long, and it wasnt even hard yet! He started to play with himself, attempting to get himself hard i suppose. I saw this thing grow into a fucking monster! It was about a foot long, if not longer, and this thing was so thick!!! He walked over to me and flipped me onto my stomach. I saw him reach for a bottle of something, but i couldnt make out what it was. I felt something wet and cold drizzling onto my ass. He grabbed my ass and spread me wide open. He started to rub this stuff all over my asshole. I almost started to cry as i had figured he was going to stick his huge cock in my ass!!! I was so terrified i think that my pubes where turning grey! I felt his fingers rubbing my ass. All of a sudden i just started getting all these emotions and feeling that i had never had before! I mean sure i have thought about being with another guy before, but what guy hasnt. So as i was laying there with him completely in control, I started to get very aroused. I couldnt believe what was happening.

    This guy was about to rape me and i was enjoying it! As he rubbed my asshole i just gave in to the pleasure. My cock started to grow and i pushed my ass upward more so i could get my ass open a little more. Then it happened, he plunged one of his fingers into my ass. Oh my it felt amazing. The feeling was indescribable. I started to moan and buck my ass up and down. Then i felt another finger violate my rectum. I figured that he was loosening me up for his huge pecker. Then he pulled out, and i felt it! It huge cock was at the entrance to my pink virgin bung! I felt him thrust his hips forward, and with one single push the head of his cock was inside of me. The pain was so immense, i thought that he had to of done some major damage to my ass. Then he pushed it all the way in. I started to buck and wiggle my body. it hurt so bad that i had tears running down my face. the pain was immense! Just try shoving a bear can up your virgin ass and tell me how it feels. As this guy was violating my rectum, all i could think about was how hot i was getting. My lust was overriding the pain. It started to feel so amazing having his huge prick inside of me. I couldnt believe what was happening. Oh my god, i had never in my entire life felt something as good as this huge dick being plunged deep into my ass. Then he pulled out. He turned me on my back and saw how hard i was. He asked me if i was enjoying him fucking me like a bitch!. I told him that i was and he knelt down in between my legs. He took my 8" cock into his mouth and began to suck it like a pro! as he was sucking me he was ramming his finger in my ass. I started to moan. It felt so good to have another man sucking me. I started to cum like i had never came before. He just kept his mouth right over my cock and took every bit of my seed into his mouth. he pushed himself up with his massive arms and took the gag from my mouth. He leaned his face towards me and began to stick his tongue in my mouth.

    My cum was still in his mouth. the taste was incredible. this was the first time that i had ever in my life tasted cum. I had never even thought about it before. As many times as i had the chance to do it before, i just never though about doing it. But i loved every minute of it. I savored the taste of my cum and his tongue in my mouth. I felt chills going up and down my spine as this fucking hunk had his tongue rammed down my throat. The he grabbed my legs and threw them over his shoulders. He spread my ass again and inserted his huge piece of meat! I moaned and gasped as he shoved it back into my warm man hole. Oh it felt so good. I told him to fuck me like the little bitch that i was. Fuck me until you fill my ass full of your white creamy jism!! He started to fuck me so hard. It was amazing. He started to jerk me off as he was fucking me. Just a few jerks and i was cumming again. All over his stomach and chest. my cum was flying everywhere. I had never came like this before.

    This was the best sex i had ever had in my life! I saw his face turn bright red, and his body began to shake. He let out a huge gasp and then he moaned so loud. He must have squirted a fucking gallon of cum into my ass. He was jerking for what seemed like 2 minutes straight, when he finally finished he dropped over on top of me and told me that it was the best he had ever had!. He told me how tight i was and how he loved ripping me open!. I told him that it was the best fucking sex i had ever had. He said that he didnt want me to have any hard feelings. it was just that he liked what he saw, and he takes what he likes. I told him that it wasnt a problem, after all. How can you rape the willing?......

  36. Good for you. I do. by Wakko+Warner · · Score: 1

    Here's my SHN partition:

    3jane:/store/shn 291891992 195551296 72989344 73% /store/shn

    Uh-huh. 300 gigs. 73% full. I put about 10 gigs a week on it (that's about 8 or 9 3-hour concerts at 16 bits/44.1 KHz). That cost me about $1000 to build back in November of last year, and I'm currently looking at 4 160 gig Maxtor drives to fill the remaining 4 slots of my 3ware card.

    Now, I may be an extreme case, but I know plenty of people who fill up their hard drives just from the applications and video games they've installed, with a few gigs of of MP3s here and there for good measure. Hell, I throw out 4 gig drives nowadays. I've got 9s and 18s that I don't even use, and about a terabyte of shit online 24/7/365. And it's data I use (MP3s, SHNs, video, 0day juarez, etc), not just shit I keep around for the hell of it (that's all on tape and CD-R.)

    Just because you're stuck in 1996 doesn't mean the rest of us haven't found a use for our big hard drives.

    - A.P.

    --
    "Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
  37. i'm afraid by Lelon · · Score: 1

    i'm constantly afraid that computer makers will go the way of american automobile. designs that are purposfully faulty so they fail and you have to buy them again in 3 years. A 3 year old computer is still a pretty damn fast computer in the office environment, this has dramatically decreased the need for companies to by new computers (a p3? send that one over to tech support). although, with dell now offering a 4(!) year warranty, hopefully quality will continue to prevail.

    1. Re:i'm afraid by allrong · · Score: 1

      They used to be able to rely on Microsoft churning out bloated software that the majority of users feel they must upgrade to. However, thanks to Microsoft's wonderful licensing structure and less resource hungry alternatives maybe the hardware manufacturers will go this way.

      --
      What is the inverse of the Matrix?
  38. Cyclical by Em+Emalb · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's just a cycle, like everything else. Hard-drives pretty much outstripped (for most people) the amount of stuff they actually store. Another thing rarely mentioned is that most people are content with what they have, not because they wouldn't like a larger hard-drive, but because it is unnecessary, and things deemed unnecessary are often the first to go when money gets tight.

    On the other hand, I know of one insurance company that puts all claims and paperwork in digital form in about 4 different places. This enables them to move the paper work off site and also requires them to get the largest, most top of the line hdd's they can find. Every month or so, they are bringing a new system online with bigger, better, faster.TM So, failing harddrive companies, concentrate on the businesses, not Mom and Dad with their 12GB they wont fill up, until software bloat causes them to.

    --
    Sent from your iPad.
    1. Re:Cyclical by WaKall · · Score: 4, Funny

      Clearly, failing harddrive companies should turn to writing bloated sofware.

    2. Re:Cyclical by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People ripping MP3s has increased the demand for space somewhat. Ripping DVDs has and will increase it some more. And with the launch (finally!) of D-VHS this month, we now have HD video to contend with. When people start ripping their entire movie collection to disk, at HD resolution, then we'll see these hard drives start to fill up again.

    3. Re:Cyclical by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >> failing harddrive companies should turn to writing bloated sofware.

      [sarcasm]

      Or better yet, hire someone to write bloated apps and a bloated OS... but who? Who could possibly make such mammooths and yet make occasional "upgrade" to get them yet more bloated, while making users keep different versions of the same libraries?

      Who could insert OS-unrelated apps into the OS itself and still claim them essential and unremovable?

      [/sarcasm]

      Yes, my friend, reality is scary!

  39. According to the opposition on Dog Eat Dog by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who makes the Pentium processor?

    (a) Athlon
    (b) Microsoft
    (c) IBM
    (d) Intel

  40. Cut n paste not a prob in KDE by MsGeek · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    Just choose one window manager and its apps. I have learned to stop worrying and love KDE 3, you can too. Cutting and pasting between KDE apps is a no brainer. You can do it the XWindow way or the Windows way. "Easy peasy" as Jamie Oliver would say.

    OK, next objection to Linux...

    --
    Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
    1. Re:Cut n paste not a prob in KDE by Bitter+Old+Man · · Score: -1

      You're an idiot.

    2. Re:Cut n paste not a prob in KDE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He can't be an idoit, refrenced the naked chef.

  41. compound adjective by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They're hyphenated.

    I bought a hard drive.

    Your hard-drive problems are puzzling.

    Not that everyone does this consistently.

    Tim

  42. Re:Good for you. I do. by FleaPlus · · Score: 3, Funny

    So how many gigs of data on your drives is actually legal?

  43. Someone had it as a sig by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    "It's a damn poor mind that can think of only one way to spell a word."

    That must mean Taco's some kind of genius. He's got about four or five spellings per word.

  44. Komag doesn't make disk drives by origin2k · · Score: 1

    about the 'last' HD manufacturer in the U.S.,

    Komag makes the media not the complete disk drive

    It's a shame that people are willing to pay more for a pair of shoes then a disk drive to store their data on!

    1. Re:Komag doesn't make disk drives by LadyJessica · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's a shame that people are willing to pay more for a pair of shoes then [sic.] a disk drive to store their data on!

      Are you sure? I think I'd rather go without a hard drive than go barefoot all the time. I think I'd rank shoes higher. Have you ever walked around town barefoot? Watch that broken glass on the sidewalk! You can't go to restaurants either. "No shoes, no shirt, no service." :-)

      --

      -- Jessica
      The mutant geek grrl from Hell.

  45. HD's are on their way out by kwerle · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I think that IBM's exit is about more than the marketplace being competative. I think it's about the marketplace being dead. Think about it: how much did you spend on your first 256M HD? How much does a 256M USB NVRAM "drive" cost today?

    My bet is that IBM is dumping this business because it's going the way of the tape drive. Yeah, still useful for LARGE amounts of data, but it looks like it should be easy to build NVRAM drives for damn cheap, and that have a MTBF that's longer than most of us will live.

    How much would it cost to build a 20G NVRAM drive that performs 10x better than a platter?

    1. Re:HD's are on their way out by Graymalkin · · Score: 2

      IBM is one of the primary development interests in MRAM technologies so your idea might have some credibility to it. It also seems like IBM's reseach is netting results that are a bit more fruitful than other groups researching MRAM. They've partnered with Infineon to bring MRAM stuff to market. We might end up seeing IBM MagStar NVRAM drives in the next couple years with decent data density.

      --
      I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
    2. Re:HD's are on their way out by tomstdenis · · Score: 1

      How much would it cost to build a 20G NVRAM drive that performs 10x better than a platter?

      Just to nitpick disk access times are in milliseconds and memory access times are in nanoseconds. That is more than a mere factor of 10.

      Of course 20GB of NVRAM would probably difficult to mass-produce....

      Tom

      --
      Someday, I'll have a real sig.
    3. Re:HD's are on their way out by billcopc · · Score: 1

      I want this NVRAM stuff. I've lost count of the drives that have died at my hands. I must have replaced at least a dozen hard drives in three years, all in my desktop PC. Give me something with no moving parts so that I can finally be rid of this headcrash-a-phobia. I'm just not the kind of guy who does regular backups because there is no suitable backup medium for my kind of quantity. 20gb tape drives cost a fortune, and spare hard drives are just too fragile. DVD-R was looking good, right up until my DVD burner died 3 weeks after purchase.

      Now give me something like NVRAM in the 40-80gig amount that I can lug around in a backpack without scratching the platters and I will give you oral pleasure like you have never had before :)

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    4. Re:HD's are on their way out by bjschrock · · Score: 2, Informative

      How much does a 256M USB NVRAM "drive" cost today?

      The main reason hard disc drives are still around and will be around for a while is because they're cheap. A 128MB USB "drive" from Sony that uses solid-state storage costs about $100... that is about 78 cents/MB. A low-end (7200rpm) 80GB desktop drive costs about $140, that is less than 0.2 cents/MB! Even 15K RPM SCSI drives cost only about 1.2 cents/MB. There are many emerging technologies that will let hard drives grow larger and faster and cheaper.

    5. Re:HD's are on their way out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *knocking on wood*

      Man, you have the worst luck ever... either that or you are buying crappy stuff to start out with. If that's the case, spend a little more and get the good stuff(tm) and save yourself the headache.

      Seagate good, no-name brand bad.

    6. Re:HD's are on their way out by shepd · · Score: 1

      Just an idea: You might want to look past the parts you're replacing for the problem (although I'm sure you have already -- just a reminder). I'd start with the power supply, and end with the environment the machine is in.

      And which DVD burner did you have? I just bought one and at the price I paid I'm starting to feel uneasy... :-/

      --
      If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
    7. Re:HD's are on their way out by shepd · · Score: 1

      At the price of NVRAM, you can slowly close the performance gap and possibly increase reliability past that of the NVRAM by buying 100 drives and RAID-1ing them. And you'll still save money!

      --
      If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
    8. Re:HD's are on their way out by Milican · · Score: 1

      Yes absolutely, milli is 10^-3 seconds... nano is 10^-9 seconds. Which is an order of 100,000!

      JOhn

    9. Re:HD's are on their way out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As the other guy said, there's probably something wrong with your power supply or something. 12 hard drives and a DVD burner in three years is really exceptionally bad luck. There's probably something in your PC that's killing them (or you're using them as hockey pucks :) The only time I've had any drive problems was when I accidentally knocked a laptop off my desk while it was running.

    10. Re:HD's are on their way out by FueledByRamen · · Score: 1

      I second the power supply idea. A bad power supply caused Windowz 2k, which is the most stable Windows to date (yeah, windows, stable...), to freeze 2 minutes from bootup. It then proceeded to fry my Radeon 8500. Now, I RMA'd the Radeon and popped in an SIS card - it starts exhibiting the same behavior. Swapped my power supply out, and everything but the video card starts working properly (fried it partially, I guess)...
      The guy at the computer shop showed a machine running an Athlon with 16 hard drives in it off of a 350w power supply - plenty to convince me that mine (4.47v line anyone? perhaps 12.56v) was defective.
      Anyways, when in doubt, new power supplies are cheap and replacing something can make you feel better. (especially when you smash the old one with an 8lb sledge!)

      --
      Every cloud has a silver lining (except for the mushroom shaped ones, which have a lining of Iridium & Strontium 90)
    11. Re:HD's are on their way out by sh4de · · Score: 0, Flamebait
      We might end up seeing IBM MagStar NVRAM drives in the next couple years with decent data density.

      Sure, but can they be used for more than eight hours per day?

      Ick, was that flamebait?

    12. Re:HD's are on their way out by SpaceJunkie · · Score: 1

      Umm- Thats a very poor statistic. I use my drives and PC intensively. I have 2x20gb HDD's and regularly siphon off data to CD-R's. I have only had one hard drive failure in around 6 years. My current drives are 3 years old. All the others I sold off when I upgraded. Mind you- if youu are lugging it regularly then its a different ballgame.

      Ever thought of getting a second lightweight PC for LAN parties?
      Just the basics -hdd big enough for skins etc, nice GFX, nice sound,single CD/DVD drive.

      But I must admit- 40-80Gig NVRAM is a thought that turns me on too - the speed as well as weight loss and less power consumption(I would assume as there are no motors or servos to drive).

      Question - Does anyone here know what heat output is like? I would imagine they're a lot cooler than hard drives. That would be a big advantage in the market.

      --
      OrionRobots.co.uk - Robots From sol
    13. Re:HD's are on their way out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm pretty sure that you're dreaming if you expect memory-like speeds from a USB port. No matter how fast NVRAM is it's still going through a bus that is nowhere near the one you'd find on a motherboard. Probably slower even than IDE.

      NVRAM doesn't have an infinite MTBF either. The cells that make the chips tend to flake out at around 1 million reads/writes (that's a lot more than it sounds but still...)

    14. Re:HD's are on their way out by MrFredBloggs · · Score: 1

      >I've lost count of the drives that have died at my hands.

      What are you doing wrong?

      >20gb tape drives cost a fortune

      Use a Cd burner? Just back up the stuff thats changed since last backup?

      >my DVD burner died 3 weeks after purchase

      When will your replacement, under guarantee, be turning up?

    15. Re:HD's are on their way out by billcopc · · Score: 1

      I had a Pioneer DVR-A03 (retail kit). Cost me 900$ CDN back then (about 575 USD). These days they're 589$ CDN (about 375 USD). I want a new one :)

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    16. Re:HD's are on their way out by billcopc · · Score: 1

      Don't ya worry, my gear is fine. The problem is that I'm incredibly violent with my hard drives, they thrash at least 60-80gb daily, lots of video and audio processing going on, with a good deal of iso shuffling).

      Many people have told me to go SCSI for the higher quality drives, but I have a hard time justifying the sick price hike. I get 40gb drives for a little over 60$USD, while their scsi counterparts, at 36gb, cost at least 400$ for something half decent. Then I'd need a raid controller, which surely won't be as cheap as my 40$ Abit Hotrod ide card. Now if my PC were a real money maker, I'd make the jump, but this is mostly hobby and entertainment. There is no money made, so there is no money to be spent.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    17. Re:HD's are on their way out by billcopc · · Score: 1

      When will your replacement, under guarantee, be turning up?

      When hell freezes over. Pioneer has been having lots of trouble keeping up with demand, so by the time I had returned my burner for repair/replacement, it was already indefinitely out of stock. Here we are 7 months later and they've just started trickling out new units about 35% cheaper than the original, so I vow to get an other as soon as my finances permit.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    18. Re:HD's are on their way out by mrm677 · · Score: 2

      Current NVRAM, based on flash memory, has a limited amount of write cycles before the part fails. Therefore, it does not currently make a viable replacement for magnetic drives in which there are frequent stores and erases.

    19. Re:HD's are on their way out by MrFredBloggs · · Score: 1

      That sucks. I agree with you - i`m not going to get a DVD writer for years. I held off getting a CD writer for ages, as i thought `theres no way thats going to work for more than a few months`. Not just moving parts, but something thats uses lasers, susceptible to movement etc. Mine lasted 14 months. Yamaha drive, for the record. I think i`ll be getting a Lacie or some other more-expensive one next time. Either that or the exact opposite - the cheapest one i can find!

    20. Re:HD's are on their way out by Jucius+Maximus · · Score: 2
      "Anyways, when in doubt, new power supplies are cheap and replacing something can make you feel better. (especially when you smash the old one with an 8lb sledge!)"

      It's more fun to dropkick crappy old Acerview monitors into a dumpster. I did this (with permission, the monitors were dead) back when I was doing co-op in high school. That cRuNcH is indescribable ;-)

    21. Re:HD's are on their way out by Rupert · · Score: 2

      I just bought an 7200rpm 80GB drive for $72. So thats about 90 cents/GB

      --

      --
      E_NOSIG
    22. Re:HD's are on their way out by FueledByRamen · · Score: 1

      You can get a (decent) SCSI RAID controller for about $40. I have one and paid $36 for it. Go to eBay and search for an IBM ServeRAID controller. The cheap ones have 3 Ultra Wide channels (68pin, the 40MB/s kind), and support up to 45 drives on one controller. Unfortunatly, they're a bit slow - or maybe it was my drives that were slow, but I only got about 20 MB/s out of a 2 drive RAID0 (2x 7200rpm 9.1gig drives). Even nicer to do - pick up a 6-drive SCA80 backplane and get hot-swapping. I got one for $35 and hooked it right up via the Ultra Wide SCSI channel. Worked wonders (except when someone at a net party pulled the drive off my computer while it was on, and definatly in non-hotswap-capable mode - RAID0 hates that).

      --
      Every cloud has a silver lining (except for the mushroom shaped ones, which have a lining of Iridium & Strontium 90)
    23. Re:HD's are on their way out by billcopc · · Score: 1

      More expensive ? The only reason La-Cie is more expensive is because they're screwing the unsavvy. Get a Plextor, or go back to Yamaha even. They're really tough to beat these days, when compared to the zillions of other CD writer brands that have popped up in the last year or two. It's fairly simple, cheaper drives are more likely to fail because they're aimed at the casual Kazaa user that burns a disc or two per week, while I burn 30 or 40. Plextor has never let me down, and I've been gazing at a Yamaha 40x for a few months now :)

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    24. Re:HD's are on their way out by MrFredBloggs · · Score: 1

      another yamaha? Whats the saying again? "Fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice, shame on me". There are too many manufacturers out there for me to want to risk them again. I used it to write about a disk or 2 a week, i guess. At that rate i expect it to last 3 or 4 years. You know, like other stuff which cost that amount of money does (£150, so same price as my monitor, cpu, hard disk - all have which are working perfectly).

      I think i`ll get a plextor then, or at least check them out, and may i humbly suggest you do the same! (the speed of the writer is completely meaningless to me - i dont mind waiting an hour per disk if it means it writes (nearly) every time).

  46. YOU MUST HAVE A BIG PENIS WAKKO WARNER! by Anomolous+Cow+Herd · · Score: 0

    Do you talk about how much HD space you have to all the skanky 40-year-olds at the singles bar before they throw their drinks in your face?

    --

    "I don't know that atheists should be considered citizens, nor should they be considered patriots." - George Bush
    1. Re:YOU MUST HAVE A BIG PENIS WAKKO WARNER! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic
      I TOLD YOUR MOM LAST NIGHT AND IT WORKED QUITE WELL I MUST SAY


      SHE DOES NEED TO TAKE CARE OF HER CLAP HOWEVER

    2. Re:YOU MUST HAVE A BIG PENIS WAKKO WARNER! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      how original, an "I fucked your mum" come-back.

      -mjl

  47. Re:Good for you. I do. by Wakko+Warner · · Score: 1

    Probably nearly all of it, since I own all the CDs on my MP3 server, and all of the SHNs are freely tradeable.

    - A.P.

    --
    "Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
  48. Defending the american car company by SinisterAngel · · Score: -1

    I know its offtopic, but oh well
    I don't know how you came up with the assumption that the American car company puts a 3 year life on their products. I have an american car for 9 years and it runs like a champ.

    --


    This post close captioned for the thinking impared.
    1. Re:Defending the american car company by bigsexyjoe · · Score: 1

      They were bad in the 80's but I think they've improved because of foriegn competitors. I think the car industry killed the demand for low-end cars because the used cars last longer.

  49. Uses for this much storage by peterdaly · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I agree that storage size has vastly outpaced demand. We have a 2 terabyte chunk of platters attached to a server which will probably triple in the next year or so, but that is not the norm.

    Our "large" database servers (10's of millions of records) have more storage than they know what to with. We are currently big on 18.X gig drives at 15k rpm just beacuse we want the spindles to speed up performance. I'd rather have a 12 or 14 drive cage full of fast 18 giger ebay specials than 73 or even 36 gig drives and have a rockin price/performance ratio.

    I find myself formatting drives for application servers feeling guilty that I am making partitions so big I know will never be more than a quarter full. We have web servers with less than 4 gig of space used serving about a million hits a month. Why do would we be keeping the demand up for the large drives? This drives the demand, and therefore the price and margin of the high end drives down.

    The drive sizes are just growing so fast most users don't need to upgrade. It is not helped by the fact that the upgrade cycle for PC's has slowed down so much. We are replacing PC's at customers sites because the contract says it is time to replace, even though the PC is already more than powerful enough for the job they perform. How many business users really need more than a 450Mhz box on their desk? We are putting 2ghz machines on these desks now. These people run terminal emulation software, browse the web, and type.

    There are many factors contributing to this hard drive problem the article talks about, these are just some personal examples I have of the reason give for the slump.

    -Pete

  50. Secrets of the Free Ride by GhostseTroll · · Score: -1

    Gay Cocks are there for the taking. You just need to know where to look.
    June 17, 2002: 4:40 PM EDT
    By Leroy Buttplug, CLIT/Pounding Staff Writer

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    --

    --
    Mamma look!

  51. Polka! Or your children feast on my nutsack!! by The+Porn+Count · · Score: -1

    Everyone vote for the TROLLING POLKA or I'll poke your bloody eyes out and teabag your children with my smelly nuts!!

    Is das nicht ein early post? Ja! Das ist mein early post! Is das nicht ein Goatse ghost? Ja! Das ist mein Goatse ghost! Early post, Goatse ghost, Oh, du schöne, Oh, du schöne, Oh, du schöne, Slashdot sucks!

    . . .

    --

    THE PORN COUNT: Bringing Porn to Slashdot, Daily.

  52. Can some one explain for me. by q-soe · · Score: 5, Informative
    How this :

    " which has become the last surviving independent manufacturer of disk-drive platters based in the United States."

    Works with this :

    " Like many of Silicon Valley's other high-technology companies, Komag has moved all of its manufacturing operations to Asia and cut its cost structure in half in the last two years. There may finally be a payoff: several analysts said the company's turnaround would soon become more visible with the addition of a prominent new customer."

    This indicates they don't do any manufacturing in the US? Thus are they a US manufacturer or a US owned Manufacturer ? and does this indicate there are non independant manufacturers in the US - for example IBM with US plants ? The word 'independant' is too important to be edited out of the slashdot story as it spins it in a new direction - there may be other manufacturers in the USA (i have no idea where to find out) but Komag is ONE of the last few independant ones (and i think US owned might be more valid).

    This is more interesting :

    " The company is left with two modern factories in Malaysia. It is controlled by two New York-based hedge funds, JDS Capital and Cerberus Partners, which specialize in acquiring debt in distressed companies. They currently hold 57.6 percent of the company's shares."

    So what manufacturing do they do in the US ? I suspect they have one single disk media plant and the platters are sold to OEM's for use in their drives. (they do - see Komags Website - they supply Seagate, maxtor and WD.

    But in fact they don't seem to have a manufacturing plant in the us according to them - from their website

    "Komag maintains two R&D centers in the San Francisco Bay Area and manufactures our disks in Malaysia. "

    That indicates the plant that the NY Times is talking about is one of their R&D plants and not a production plant. Which it is as Komag lists San Jose and Santa Rosa as their 2 R&D plants - and for my mind R&D isn't manufacture...

    So in fact are they a US manufacturer or a US owned manufacturer ? There is a difference to my mind as IBM are a US owned manufacturer.... In fact the article looks like a piece aimed at building the company's stock ahead of their relisting on the share market and not a piece about technology per se.

    --
    I refuse to argue with Anonymous Cowards - if you want a discussion get an account....
    1. Re:Can some one explain for me. by blastedtokyo · · Score: 1
      It's the ideas that count here not the manufacturing. Many major US commercial software publishers (MSFT, Intuit, Adobe to name a few) get their CD's stamped in Malaysia or somewhere outside the US. Does that mean that the software is no longer US based?

      Or if you download a piece of software from a mirror based in another country, does that change the nation of origin for the software?

      While hardware and software are different in physical form, when it comes to a product that's so highly engineered that production is largely the product of a software application, there's no real separation. It's the brains and ideas behind it, not where it gets stamped. An american subsidiary in another country is still quite different from a local company.

    2. Re:Can some one explain for me. by molo · · Score: 2

      Thanks for the details. You should write to the NYT Editor and let him know what a bogus article it is. They might even publish it in the op-ed section.

      --
      Using your sig line to advertise for friends is lame.
    3. Re:Can some one explain for me. by q-soe · · Score: 2

      Really why bother

      The author is John Markoff - as in the man who pushed the line 'Kevin Mitnick is the worlds most dangerous man'and thus was reponsible for him being treated worse than many murderers - as if accuracy in his stories or trifles like the truth are going to to bother him or his employer..

      --
      I refuse to argue with Anonymous Cowards - if you want a discussion get an account....
  53. One of the other factors. by AA0 · · Score: 1, Troll

    HDs are currently the slowest thing in your computer, it is the ultimate bottleneck. This is getting worse and worse each time, the performance jumps just are not present in this industry. People will not go out and buy a new HD like they would a graphics card, because the performance increases just a few percent over the model for HDs. Graphics cards double in speed in 6 to 9 months.

    CPUs increase massively, and there is still the enthusiast market to drive it, but there are no HD enthusiast markets, not until the manufacturers think of something creative in design (and no, IBM, unprecidented failure doesn't count). It took this long to get a 8meg cache drive, and we all know how cheap memory is.
    There is serious lack of innovation in this field.

    1. Re:One of the other factors. by soupdevil · · Score: 1

      If you use audio software, the CPU is definitely still the bottleneck.

    2. Re:One of the other factors. by boa13 · · Score: 5, Informative

      HDs are currently the slowest thing in your computer, it is the ultimate bottleneck.

      This means nothing. What about CD-Rom drives, DVD-Rom drivers, Zip drives, PCMCIA cards, Ethernet ports, USB devices, parallel ports, serial ports and floppy drives?

      This is getting worse and worse each time, the performance jumps just are not present in this industry.

      You are trolling big time, or you need a brain upgrade. Or perhaps simply you need to read the article. This industry's failure is that they improved way too fast. They increased the storage capacity by 100% every year! "Moore's Law? Yeah, you mean the thing we got past years ago?"

      not until the manufacturers think of something creative in design

      Yeah sure, those stupid morons are not creative. Every year, we tell them "There is no way you can put more data on this platter.", and every year these morons come up with new moronic ideas. Doh!

      It took this long to get a 8meg cache drive, and we all know how cheap memory is.

      Because of course a much bigger cache would mean a much better performance? I'm not so sure. Or else they would already have done it. You are playing a ridiculous game of "listen to me, morons". Except you're talking about very smart guys that know and take into account things you or I cannot even imagine.

      There is serious lack of innovation in this field.

      You seem to be a serious successful troll. Or a serious moron. You want speed? Buy several hard drives and do some RAID. You'll quickly notice that your PCI bus is very limited, though. We need 64 bits PCI cards at 66 MHz with integrated RAID controllers, and the motherboard companies are not even making them! Sheesh... There is a serious lack of innovation in the motherboard business.

    3. Re:One of the other factors. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Motherboards don't sell on inovation, they sell on being "good enough" and "not randomly rebooting".

    4. Re:One of the other factors. by NovaX · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but your neglecting to much when you say drives are the bottleneck. I would have agreed with you a few years ago and I chanted it happily when my old SCSI Pentium system could outperform most early P2s. This was because the CPU is generally starved and so on non-intensive tasks getting faster sub-system made major differences. But that was in a day were RAM was still to small, system busses were clogged, the CPU was stuck doing useless junk (I/O operations), and better algorithms were in dire need.

      Today with DMA, faster busses, more ram then can be usefully filled, much improved optimization algorithms (caches, fragmentations, memory management, etc), and higher throughput, your drive isn't sooo bad. I put my old 10k IBM SCSI drive in my new system to give it a wirl, and while it has half the seek time of my WD IDE, its smaller throughput made it perform slower. The CPU utilization was 1-2% verses 8-10%, but on an 1800+ I honestly don't care.

      Hard drives are the slowest components, so when the worst case happens (a miss penalty) and a load must occur, the system is busy waiting. This is where larger caches and better algorithms come into play, so the penalty is small due to the unlikely hood of accessing the drive. What about application loads? Well, if you optimize the filesystem then the high throughput and disk cache work well, with this being a one-time hit since your RAM thus stores needed data. And with your RAM so large you can have many processes running so even while your waiting for the drive your not twiddling your thumb.

      Hard drives are difficult to improve speed wise through physical changes because they are moving parts. The only way to truely improve hdds speed wise is to dump them and replace them with a non-moving system, such as one similar to RAM. Oh, and the 8mb WD over the 2mb is hardly significant in speed up, as you can see on storage review. It helps, but nothing amazingly.

      So your wrong, they are getting better. And its because we're making small improvements speed-wise, large size-wise, and the rest simply algorithmic and less system demand. Stick in a new 15k SCSI and you wont see the amazing speed-up that made SCSI a must for any power-user 5-8 years ago. The problem with hdds is there so big most of us don't need the space - we fill it up with whatever we can, which is usually games, music (mp3s and now videos), and movies. All entertainment and thus sacrificable.

      --

      "Open Source?" - Press any key to continue
    5. Re:One of the other factors. by AA0 · · Score: 1

      I am not talking about storage, nobody needs that much storage, we already know that. I am talking about speed, I know my computers, and I always buy the fastest HD possible, since it is the slowest thing that you use. PCI bus may be "technically" slower, but soundcards, network cards, and anything else you have on PCI does not take up much bandwidth, so it is a non issue.

      If you knew much about PCI, you know there is a reason why 64bit is not popular, you obviously do not know.... PCI will be like ISA next year anyways.
      Take a look at transfer rates for HD benchmarking, you'll notice that 7200rpm drives are barely above that of 5400rpm. I have 800 mp3s, and 50 gigs free, of course I don't need more storage. But I would love if my HD didn't crap out on loading large programs, it takes forever. Sustained transfer rates are pitiful, the whole ATA100 and ATA133 standard is pointless, you don't use nearly that much.

      CD-ROM, DVD, thats all removable media, it does not count for being slow, by design, it is slow. Use your brain before you post, really.

      I could buy a 100Mhz P1, load it with a couple gigs of RAM... but that doesn't make it faster. When you have large 100+ Gig drives, you need the speed of the drive to actually move that much more space around, and it is just not there.
      HD technology has not changed since the P1s, they use higher density storage, but the methods to grab data are essentially the same. That is the lack of innovation, they need to work on multiply reads, bigger bandwidth, caches, etc, not just rpms, that means very little to someone doing a large transfer.

    6. Re:One of the other factors. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The words you're looking for would be stability and reliability.

    7. Re:One of the other factors. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      not just rpms, that means very little to someone doing a large transfer.

      I was starting to wonder if maybe you were arguing from an intelligent point of view, until I saw this comment at the end. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

      You're trying to tell me increasing the RPMs from 5400 to 7200 didn't increase the speed of retrieving data from the platters? You think maybe those extra revolutions are just spent spinning without reading? Go back to troll school.

    8. Re:One of the other factors. by boa13 · · Score: 2

      I know you are talking about speed. But your whole "I know better than the professionals" attitude just begged to be answered that way.

      It makes no sense to say that hard drives are "the slowest thing that you use". This is completely not true and means nothing, no matter how many times you repeat it. The slowest thing I've used today was a floppy and a remote connection to my box in Europe.

      Now that the graphics cards have been moved to their own bus, it's true that in most boxen, the "other" PCI cards don't take much bandwidth. That said, the SoundBlaster Live! designers have had issues with the latency of the bus. But the problem here is to put more than one drive on the PCI bus. I don't religiously read hardware site every morning, but as far as I know, hard drives have a bandwidth somewhere around 35 MB/sec. Put two of them on your bus, use them, and you'll be eating 55% of the bandwidth of the bus. One more drive, and you're done with the PCI bus. Oh, by the way, how can you call 35 MB/sec "pitiful"? What do you compare it against?

      Now, I don't know "much" about the PCI bus, though we perhaps don't have the same idea of what "much" is, and I'd like to know what the reason for the unpopularity of the 64-bits bus is. But of course, your didn't lower yourself in giving it.

      So, nowadays nothing really differentiates 5400 rpm from 7200 rpm? But there are 15000 rpm disks available, too. Why buy one big slow hard drive when you can buy smaller, faster ones? The choice is yours, so don't whine about it. As for the removable media, it has not been designed to be slow. Like anything in a computer, it has been designed to be as fast as possible, and it is as fast as possible, and as fast as your money can buy.

      The end of your post doesn't make much sense, but at least it shows us how much time you've been around; not enough. Yeah, sure HD technology hasn't changed since the Pentium was introduced, you know what, it hasn't changed for 20 years, even. Yet, well, I prefer my new hard drive.

      Since you seem to know so well how to save the hard-drive world, go work for them. And bring us faster and cheaper hard drive. It's so easy, I just can't understand why I'm not doing it myself.

    9. Re:One of the other factors. by AA0 · · Score: 1

      Removable parts are slow, it is the nature of the beast, always has been. Have you heard a 15k SCSI drive? not something I want running 24/7 in my computer near my TV, I'd like to be able to hear my TV sometimes....

      286 HDs were quite a bit different then what we have now, 486s are not, they underwent a large change. 20 years ago, HDs were the same principles, but nothing similar to what we have now.

      Realisticly, most computers have 2 or 3 PCI devices as a max. The SB live! was an awful product, causing troubles with new and existing hardware, the drivers and product design is lousy and it uses way too many resources. I've switched to a Santa Cruz card, the difference is simply incredible.

      35MB/sec is slow when you consider the space of the current HDs, and the rate at which every other "modern" component is increasing in speed. HD sustained transfers are not getting much better, between model #s you see very little difference. Even in SCSI, the biggest change is the seek times, not transfer rates.

      I suggest you stop using floppies and move to something... well, better. It is the only technology to slow down, I have run little tests and found drives out of 486s ran significantly faster then the cheap crap that is sold now. My internet connection is much faster than floppies, several times faster, and far more reliable. I haven't used one in 4 years, maybe more. USB keys are one of my favourite ways to transfer data (if the internet is not available), but I used CD-Rs most of the time.

    10. Re:One of the other factors. by AA0 · · Score: 1

      It doesn't increase transfer speed, it just decreases seek times. A new 5400 rpm drive transfers very similar to a 7200rpm drive. Don't post unless you have a brain please.

      The primary use of SCSI (15k) is to be able to server up a whole bunch of files very very quickly for a server.

  54. gnutella (was Re:Uses for this much storage) by xpurple · · Score: 1

    One word, gnutella. Or any other file sharing package.

    I filled my file server in about 2 weeks with that, I'm talking 70 gigs and a fast connection. And I need larger drives now.

    Some of us just happen to pickup the slack for everyone else who doesn't take full advantage of what's in front of them.

    --
    http://www.xpurple.com
    1. Re:gnutella (was Re:Uses for this much storage) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, you got Gnutella to download? That in itself is a great feat.

  55. offtopic (iCab) by gerardrj · · Score: 1


    iCab 2.8.1pre renders /. perfectly fine for me under 10.1.5.

    --
    Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
    1. Re:offtopic (iCab) by SirRichardPumpaloaf · · Score: 1

      The last time I tried iCab it didn't do "Nested" mode right, the posts were indented only a tiny amount so you couldn't see the threads easily. My favorite browser for reading Slashdot is definitely Chimera Navigator. Check it out at chimera.mozdev.org, highly recommended.

  56. Dirty Panties? by TrollBurger · · Score: -1

    yes! dirty panties!

  57. PCI Bus is the biggest bottleneck by hagbard5235 · · Score: 2

    The Hard Drive may be the slowest component, but the PCI bus is the big bottleneck for MANY applications. I can cache enough of the things I need to hit the disk for in memory to render the disk bottleneck irrelavent to many applications. What I can't do is drive stuff across the crappy PCI bus any faster. Could we please move away from PCI towards something better!!

    1. Re:PCI Bus is the biggest bottleneck by rew · · Score: 2

      The Hard Drive may be the slowest component, but the PCI bus is the big bottleneck for MANY applications.

      May I ask you what you are doing on your computer that uses your PCI bus?

      You should be browsing the web (internet at a couple of megabits), playing mp3s (160k/sec uncompressed audio plus 20k/sec compressed audio), and you'll be editing stuff, and doing things with your screen. That's highbandwidth alright, but doesn't have anything to do with your PCI bus.

      Roger.

    2. Re:PCI Bus is the biggest bottleneck by repvik · · Score: 1

      Considering the amount of bandwidth generated by my two scsi-disks (Which I easily get 80MB/sec from) for outgoing ftp while watching two towers trailer fullscreen streamed from apple.com, I'm running low on free bandwidth on the PCI-bus.

      (Btw, I no longer have sig11, thanks! :)
      (p200 without MMX, no-hlt)

    3. Re:PCI Bus is the biggest bottleneck by rew · · Score: 1

      640 mbit per second of outgoing ftp?

      You can make me believe that you have 10mbs internet. That's 1Mbyte per second.

      Roger.

    4. Re:PCI Bus is the biggest bottleneck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless you have a gigabit ethernet uplink I think you are looking at the wrong place for a bottleneck (seeing as there would be an order of magnitude or more difference between network bandwith and PCI, while your HD's could consume the PCI bandwith they would not be doing so serving anything less than Gb ethernet). If you do have a gigabit ethernet uplink then what the hell are you doing using your server to watch movies? :) You obviously have enough money to put the ftp on a seperate box.

    5. Re:PCI Bus is the biggest bottleneck by repvik · · Score: 1

      Now, if you've ever been to Norwegian universities, you'll know that they offer their students 100mbps full duplex internet access. That's easily 6+Mbyte per second :)

    6. Re:PCI Bus is the biggest bottleneck by rew · · Score: 1

      OK. That's 100 mbps, or 12 mbyte per second. That's 10% of your available PCI bandwidth. You need that bandwidth twice: once to get it off your disk, once to get it to the network. That's 20% of your PCI bandwidth. That's significant, but not close to saturating your PCI bus. Right?

      Roger.

    7. Re:PCI Bus is the biggest bottleneck by hagbard5235 · · Score: 2

      Trying to seriously drive a gig ethernet card. Trying to do network capture and analysis for a gig ethernet card. Trying to use multiple fast ethernet ports to simultaneously monitor different network points. Any of these will blow a PCI bus really fast. I currently have to spend a great deal of money on specialized equipment to do poorly what I could do with a Linux box if it the applications didn't choke on the PCI bus speed.

      And don't even think about the new 10 gig ethernet you're SOL out of the box on that, curtesy of your crappy PCI bus.

    8. Re:PCI Bus is the biggest bottleneck by rew · · Score: 1

      Someone suggested that "for normal use your average PCI bus is not enough". Well. I disagree. For normal use a PCI bus is quite enough.

      I fully agree that with several 100mpbs cards, and/or one gigabit ethernet card, you can easily saturate a PCI bus. With specialized applications as well.

      I have a system where I need HD troughput. I use the 66MHz PCI bus on that one. If it hadn't been enough I would have had to use 64bit/66MHz PCI. But this is a specialized application and not "normal use".

      Roger.

  58. Flawed drives equal lower demand by Billy_D_Goat · · Score: 1

    I think a one of the biggest problems in recent years is the decreasing reliability of drives. Personally, I have experienced both the IBM "deathstar" epidemic as well as a new "beeping" issue with Maxtor drives on Macs. (See http://www.macintouch.com/maxtor2.html for more info on beeping Maxtors) I have stopped buying drives for the time being until some of these problems settle down. Fact of the matter is people don't buy shoddy products (ok you got me on Windows!).

    1. Re:Flawed drives equal lower demand by LordLucless · · Score: 1

      Who buys windows?

      You get it on a new PC, or pirate it off your next door neighbour when he buys one.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    2. Re:Flawed drives equal lower demand by Billy_D_Goat · · Score: 1

      good point!

    3. Re:Flawed drives equal lower demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Personally, I have experienced both the IBM "deathstar" epidemic as well as a new "beeping" issue with Maxtor drives on Macs.

      Doesn't surprise me.

      Maxtor once had a name as one of the worst drive makers on earth (there were worse, though, like JTS).

      And then, all of a sudden, the "worst" drive maker goes and buys out their platter supplying "best" drive maker, Quantum. It baffled my mind why a first tier drive maker got bought out by their second tier.

      Now I see why -- all sorts of people are now telling me Maxtor rocks.

    4. Re:Flawed drives equal lower demand by slaker · · Score: 5, Informative

      Maxtor does rock. Put simply, after that down period about six years ago, they got their sh*t together and started making a quality product, and they haven't given up. The price is right, the performance excellent (good to see Maxtor picked up Quantum's tendency to make fast-seeking IDE units.

      The other really good product right now is Western Digital. They're IDE only now, unfortunately, but it take a lot of balls to stand up and recall drives from consumers, to fix a manufacturing flaw. They did it, and they earned my respect.

      Samsung drives also have a really strong reputation.

      In comparison we have IBM, whose last 15k SCSI unit doesn't even best Maxtor's latest 10k Atlas, and whose 7200rpm ATA models are limited by either the "Deathstar" rep or the limitations of a specificied Powered On Hours of Service specification that no one else seems to be using.

      We also have Seagate, which makes some fantastic and unique products (the last 50-pin 7200rpm SCSI drive) in SCSI, and has IDE products that, frankly, suck dick. U-series drives have lousy reliability and performance that's matched by two-year old drives that are 1000rpm SLOWER. Even worse, WD's recent 5400rpm products come to wit 2% of Seagate's amazingly quite 7200rpm Barracuda IV in most benchmarks.

      Most of my knowledge comes from either Storagereview.com or from Storageforum.net

      --
      -- I wanna decide who lives and who dies - Crow T. Robot, MST3K
    5. Re:Flawed drives equal lower demand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Samsung drives also have a really strong reputation.

      I'll second that. I've got a Samsung 560MB that's almost 10 years old that's still running, outlasting a WD 80MB (replaced by the Samsung when it was just a couple of years old), a Connor 1.6GB (from just before being bought by Seagate), a Fujitsu 2.1GB, and a Quantum 7.6GB. All these drives were ATA.
    6. Re:Flawed drives equal lower demand by Erbo · · Score: 2
      Remember, Maxtor used to be MiniScribe, who once stooped as far as shipping bricks instead of disk drives to book revenue. But since then, they've reformed and gotten their shit together.

      I've been burned by the IBM drives recently, too. The reason Electric Minds is down right now is because the company that made our server put IBM DeskStar drives in it. Even a replacement drive I bought started failing mere months after I installed it, whereas I have Maxtor drives that have been in service for three years and longer, and have never failed once. The server disks are being replaced with new Maxtors now; I don't expect them to give any trouble...but it'll be a cold day in hell before I recommend anyone buy an IBM DeskStar.

      --
      Be who you are...and be it in style!
    7. Re:Flawed drives equal lower demand by o311 · · Score: 1

      "good to see Maxtor picked up Quantum's tendency to make fast-seeking IDE units"

      Thats because Maxtor bought the remnants of Quantum's hard drive division.

      BTW The Atlas was originally a DEC product acquired by Quantum ... err Maxtor

  59. Are hard disks really commodities? by slaker · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I suppose I disagree on the very basic point that a hard disk is a commodity purchase. RAM is a commodity. I can buy a stick from any of the major manufacturers and know that I'm getting more or less the same level of quality.

    Every hard disk on the market right now has some kind of distinguishing characteristic. Folks doing equipment purchasing may not be *aware* of the distinctions, but they are present nonetheless.

    Want a high-performance 5400rpm ATA disk? Look at Western Digital's *AB-series drives. Quiet SCSI? Fujitsu has/had that market cornered. Performance at any cost? Seagate's X15-36LP.

    I can't say any similar thing about true commodity items like RAM or floppy disk drives. --

    Visit StorageForum

    --
    -- I wanna decide who lives and who dies - Crow T. Robot, MST3K
    1. Re:Are hard disks really commodities? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sure they are. Cars having varying qualities but are commidty items. it's a commodity, it's not an homogeous product.

      Andrew

    2. Re:Are hard disks really commodities? by Reziac · · Score: 2

      Actually you can't say the same about floppy drives either. Teac now makes the only good ones, tho back in the 5.25" day, Fujitsu made good FDDs too (I still have several in use with a mfg date of *1986*).

      Conversely Mitsumi floppy drives are crap (made cheap, often out of spec and sometimes DOA brand new, and have a limited lifespan). Generics are worse, and if you tear them apart you'll usually find they are Mitsumi 2nds on the inside.

      OTOH, you're mostly right about RAM -- in general any brand my dealer hands me will work just fine (and a lot of the generics have name-brand chips). Tho in a mission-critical situation I might still opt for genuine Micron or the like, under the theory that even if the chips are the same, perhaps the rest of the stick's electronics are not.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  60. Gotta love it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does this mean that hard drives would not be required to comply with the impending Digital Wrongs Management laws the US is brewing up? Of course the US will just state that hard drives will need to comply for import but since I don't live in the US I couldn't care less.

    Keep up the good work Taiwan!

  61. Tax Rates? by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    Going by tax rates there isn't a level playing field within the U.S. 50 different tax rates on various factors of production.

  62. "pixie dust" by kesuki · · Score: 4, Funny

    As stated in the article, IBM had recently started to use "Pixie dust" to push the supermagnetic barrier to squeeze more data on each platter. So obviously, they ran afowl of the Pixie's union, and had to sell the business to hitachi, which relies on the gremlin's union to keep the pixies in-line.

  63. Sad by coli2 · · Score: 1

    Only under a flawed economic system will you fail because the technology is too successful. The problem is not of over investment. But one of the economic system that we are under.

    1. Re:Sad by kmellis · · Score: 2
      You are so wrong about this.

      There is no such thing as being "too successful". The platter manufacturers have not been "too successful", they have made poor business decisions.

      Increasing platter capacity far beyond demand is exactly the equivalent of simply charging less for a product than the buyer is willing to pay.

      Economically successful means the greatest production of wealth possible. The resources that went into producing a surplus of platter storage capacity could have been better used elsewhere. If you had a designed economy, and you were the designer, wouldn't you allocate just as much resources to research and production of improved platter capacity as there was a demand? Well, no, you wouldn't. If you did, then hopefully you'd recognize your mistake, and then move those resources elsewhere. This is exactly what is happening to the platter industry as a result of market forces. The system is working just fine.

    2. Re:Sad by kmellis · · Score: 2
      Er, "Well, no, you wouldn't" should have been the opposite. Or the previous should have been the opposite. Urgh.

      I must have read that three times without noticing that stupid error.

  64. WARNING! GOATSEX LINK IN PARENT! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    WARNING! parent post contains a goatsex redirect! do not click

  65. Day's Range: 0.004 - 0.009 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Here is a better link:

    http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=KMAGQ.OB&d=t

    Interestingly, this stock traded 1,097,800 shares today. I wonder who bought those shares? I wonder who sold them?

  66. Quality Control by FueledByRamen · · Score: 1

    I'm really, really unhappy at the quality control behind hard drives. Just this morning I put my foot on my 20gb Maxtor ATA66 old-and-showing-it drive. I barely set it on there and had only gotten comfortable with it as a foot rest when it made a funny noise and shut down! (No joke, I am this stupid and this did happen, and this isn't the first time.) Damn Maxtor, can't make a drive that head-crashes properly! Anyway, it still works, because it booted the Windows .NET Enterprise Server beta that this message is being typed on...

    <BOFH> Next time, I should really put it to the test. Rubber panel-beating mallet: leaves almost no marks while causing a head crash...</BOFH>

    --
    Every cloud has a silver lining (except for the mushroom shaped ones, which have a lining of Iridium & Strontium 90)
    1. Re:Quality Control by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that sucks!

      I shot my circa 1994 9GB SCSI2 Avid drive with a .38 and it did ship whine nor die. maxtor must suck.

  67. I want a silent hard drive, not a fast hard drive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How about spinning the drive at 3600 rpm or less, and eliminating all the other little noises that go with it? I am more interested in that feature than capacity. And I am *way* more interested in silence than in access speed.

  68. Do they really mean what they say? by leonbrooks · · Score: 4, Funny

    Paraburdoo Tavern once had a sign saying `No admission without shirt and shoes. Tank-tops and thongs not acceptable' until shortly after somebody complied, turning up in a shirt and shoes. Only.

    --
    Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
  69. No, that's 6 orders by leonbrooks · · Score: 2

    AKA 1,000,000x

    --
    Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
    1. Re:No, that's 6 orders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you mean it's 'six factors of ten', not
      six 'orders' of ____

  70. I have a 250MB SamSung from 1993 by leonbrooks · · Score: 2

    It's running my gateway machine as I type, and has been for 3 years. Wanna buy it? (-:

    --
    Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
    1. Re:I have a 250MB SamSung from 1993 by kpetruse · · Score: 1

      Nah, but I've still got a 10Mb drive hanging around somewhere. 10Mb! TEN!

      Hard drive capacity is the only time when geeks will say "My one is smaller than yours".

  71. Re:Good for you. I do. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hey buddy, can you spare some space? And while you're at it, some 0day warez and the latest eminem album?

  72. John? by RoC+MasterMind · · Score: 1

    Anyone notice that this article was written by John Markoff, the same guy who wrote the slanderous stuff about Kevin Mitnick way back?

  73. /. now posting Times stories with Reg warning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wasn't it just a few days ago when /. went over the registration issue? Now NYT is being quoted without registration warnings?

  74. In other news... by allanj · · Score: 3, Funny

    Bill Gates reports that no-one will ever need more than 640KB of memory. Wait a minute - that was like two decades ago? Wow.

    --
    Black holes are where God divided by zero
  75. Pixie Dust and other musings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Contrary to what the article states, pixie dust, and the technology/technologists behind it are a failure. IBM hard drive division being sold because the "most successful hard drive in history" was bleeding them, by their own admission. Brutal technological competition? Try not having a backup technology for the failed GXP pixie dust debacle. See: http://www.tech-report.com/news_reply.x/3494

    What do you do when technology that is supposed to put you at the front of the pack puts you into the sewer, and you have no backup strategy? You cut your losses and run like hell.

  76. This story is biased! by pro-mpd · · Score: 1

    And I thought that American (US, anyhow) journalism was above bias!

    Meh. The author calls IBM a victim- a victim of what? Their own stupidity and inability to produce a good product? Oh, no, I get it... <SARCASM thickness="very">IBM is a victim of companies (such as Komag) who are capable of producing a better product than them. Nasty, underhanded good-product companies!</SARCASM>

    Seriously though, IBM is out of the business. Sure the Pixie Dust info. is relevant (i.e. Komag is better because they don't need pixie dust), but the stuff about millipede... how is that relevant if it's still 5-10 years out? It seems like the author is just trying to play up IBM even though they failed out of their own stupidity. Not even a mention of WD's new 200gb drives... Komag even makes the platters for WD!!

  77. Of course not. by Chuck+Chunder · · Score: 1

    those problems are caused by violent television, movies and video games.

    --
    Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
  78. Don't make drives, sell them at a profit. by Pinback · · Score: 1

    The profitable part of the storage market is the packaging. The disk drives are the cheap part. Why bother making disks if you can make a fortune pimping someone else's drives?

    If you want proof, look at IBM's ESS product. They've gone from using their own fibre channel disks to a SEAGATE U-160 with an add-on shim that adapts the drive to FC.

    1. Re:Don't make drives, sell them at a profit. by apadula · · Score: 1

      The ESS doesn't use fibre channel drives, the disks are all SSA (Serial Storage Architecture).

      The older disks are all SSA native drives made by IBM. The 73gig drives are Seagate U160's with a converter attached so it can connect to the SSA loops that are in the ESS.

    2. Re:Don't make drives, sell them at a profit. by Pinback · · Score: 1

      Oops, yes, you are correct.

      The ESS uses SSA. But are the 73GB size the only disks that are setup this way?

  79. Re:Why the HDD business is ailing...better link by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A more up-to-date link on the pixie dust GXP debacle is here: http://www.tech-report.com/news_reply.x/3494

  80. Not without an alternative to photolitography by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    With photolitography the cost per bit will remain far too high, even with feature sizes growing ever smaller ... we need something which can do submicron patterning a lot cheaper, when we do companies like rolltronics will be able to mass produce memory with thin film techniques like MRAM/thinfilm.se/Ovonyx. But until that time cheap solid state mass storage is just a dream.

  81. 40 Children Dead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    I imagine the specter of Islam isn't far away from this tragedy

    1. Re:40 Children Dead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      Not Islam this time - try Russian pilots pissed up on Vodka. It's probably worth killing a bunch of innocent muslims anyway just in case. Oh, you already did that. Perhaps the US could be prosecuted for this - er, maybe not.

  82. Re:Good for you. I do. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do you think we don't know what "Juarez" is? Huh?

  83. They're definately going under by KidSock · · Score: 1

    if their platters can only store one image:

    http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2002/07/01/bus iness/01KOMA.1.jpg

  84. Does it still go? by leonbrooks · · Score: 2

    Plug it in and see if it blows up the PSU! (-:

    --
    Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
  85. Re:I want a silent hard drive, not a fast hard dri by DirkDaring · · Score: 0

    I have a 7200rpm drive in my Dell, an IBM, and I can't hear it at all.

    Maybe your case just sucks?

  86. Ability to store, outstrips ability to back up by zerofoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Demand for storage will not increase until backup methods can scale up.

    What good is that 120 GB hard drive in your machine if you can only backup 40-60 GB?

    Disk storage has been really cheap for years, yet backup systems like tape and DVD are either too small or too damn expensive.

    Anybody check out prices on DDS4, AIT, and other tape drives....way too expensive.

    Our ability to store stuff is not dictated by hard drive space, it is dictated by backup space.

    -ted

    1. Re:Ability to store, outstrips ability to back up by Erbo · · Score: 2
      Solution: live backups. Put another machine on your LAN, with the same size drive. Set up a script to run that periodically copies the contents of your primary machine to the backup machine. If your primary machine's drive fails, you haven't lost anything.

      Another solution: RAID-1, two drives mirroring one another. If one dies, the other one is still usable.

      Of course, these don't provide the multiple-generation archiving you get with traditional backups. Still, it's a way of preventing data loss. (Now there's another solution...use multiple removable hard drives for multi-generation backup. Three big hard drives plus removable-disk trays will probably still cost less than one tape drive, and be more convenient besides.)

      --
      Be who you are...and be it in style!
    2. Re:Ability to store, outstrips ability to back up by markmoss · · Score: 2

      Disk mirroring DOES NOT save your arse when some nitwit MCSE lets a virus infect the server and all the data files. It will whack the mirrors too. If they'd been using the multi-generation tape backups like every _real_ backup plan has, we'd have been back and running in a couple of days, but as it was a lot of stuff simply had to be done over.

      Now (a couple of years later), they do the multi-generation tapes religiously. And periodically they yell at everyone to pare their on-line files down so they can continue to backup 100G hard drives to a 40G tape! (In other words, we are limiting drive space _used_, not to what is available or affordable, but to what the backup system can handle. I do that by moving rarely used files to CD-R.)

      I'm quite OK with using removable disk drives for a multiple-generation backup, as long as you actually have multiple copies, and some of them are off-site. I'm not sure how the costs compare, but this scheme ought to take care of the insufficient capacity and insufficient time excuses. And one of the worst problems with tape backups is ensuring that after a real disaster - like the computer with the tape drive burning up - you'll still be able to read the tapes. I assume that those removable disks could hook up for read-back to any SCSI equipped computer with a suitable cable?

    3. Re:Ability to store, outstrips ability to back up by Erbo · · Score: 2
      I was thinking of those removable IDE drive adapters that have a tray that you bolt the drive into and a housing that fits in the computer's drive bay. If your backup drives were all fitted into those kind of trays, changing them in and out would be a breeze. In a pinch, you could unbolt the drive from its tray and connect it to a computer in the usual way. No doubt similar widgets exist for SCSI drives, should you be using those instead.

      Another alternative might involve those external drives that use IEEE 1394 (FireWire, i.LINK) interfaces. Just plug and copy...and plug them into any 1394-equipped computer for recovery. At that point, you might be going beyond the price of a tape drive...but not by much, and the 1394 drives offer easy random access to files in case you need to recover individual ones.

      --
      Be who you are...and be it in style!
    4. Re:Ability to store, outstrips ability to back up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Large companies would have live off-site backup systems with a private dedicated line. This is to prevent fire from destroying backup computers that are side-by-side with the machine you are backing up.

      I'd say the hard drive industry is limited by the broadband bandwidth. Broadband has not improved much in speed since I got my first cable modem installed almost 4 years ago. In fact, it has slowed somewhat due to the increased traffic on the shared lines.

      If everyone has high speed ( > current broadband speeds) things like on-demand high quality video would probably be more popular, and thus fuel the storage demand.

  87. Re:I want a silent hard drive, not a fast hard dri by corey_lawson · · Score: 1

    then wear earplugs. Most HDs these days are incredibly quiet.

  88. Geez... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can't you guys find stories on sites that DON'T require registration??? I don't care about the NY Times, and I don't want to register.

  89. Hm. by Wakko+Warner · · Score: 1

    Either you're a total retard, or someone is deliberately sending you broken hardware as a prank. There's absolutely no way you can lose a dozen hard drives in one machine in 3 years and not have it be PEBKAC (or ID-10-T syndrome.)

    - A.P.

    --
    "Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
    1. Re:Hm. by billcopc · · Score: 1

      Nah, I'm not a total retard, I'm just very demanding and trying to make the most of cheap hardware. I just don't have the moolah to invest in better equipment right now, since nobody is buying new PCs or contracting shop-online sites anymore and my expensive services are not in demand. I don't expect much better from a 60$ hard drive, but I figure Maxtor and friends aren't making much money from me after all the warranty service I put them through. If they would put a little 2% extra effort in their manufacturing process, maybe their drives wouldn't crash so damned often in my thrash-hungry workstation.

      It's a sad day indeed when I whine about hitting the PCI bus' max bandwidth on my drive array. Yet that's what I want out of my PC for the work I do; give me >200mb/sec speeds on a set of drives that will last more than 6 months. That's all I care about.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    2. Re:Hm. by T-Ranger · · Score: 1
      Ah. Its all becoming clear now. You only ever purchase cheep hardware.

      Well, duh, of course its going to break. Stop your whining..

    3. Re:Hm. by Wakko+Warner · · Score: 2

      I'm not a total retard

      I'm just very demanding and trying to make the most of cheap hardware.


      Those two statements are in direct conflict with each other.

      There is no such thing as "cheap, fast, and good".

      - A.P.

      --
      "Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
    4. Re:Hm. by billcopc · · Score: 1

      Cheap ? If by cheap you mean "non-scsi" then yes I go for cheap stuff. Nowadays I run Seagates, and they are doing better than my old Maxtors at any rate. If you can afford those 500$ scsi drives then more power to ya, I'll keep trucking along with my 'cheap' IDEs.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
  90. dont throw away those old drives. by gimpboy · · Score: 2

    hey.

    if you really have alot of drives lying around we can use them. we build computers from old parts and send them off to mexico. if you really have alot of old drives and want to unload them, i'll pay for the postage. email me if you dont mind the hassel.

    --
    -- john
  91. Destroking by DustMagnet · · Score: 2
    In this article I read:

    Seagate will drop the capacity of a 60GB platter to 40GB through a technical process it calls destroking.

    If margins are so tight, I can't figure out how destroking could be happening. I associate intentional crippling of products with monopolies.

    --
    'SBEMAIL!' is better than a goat!!
    1. Re:Destroking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > In this article [pcworld.com] I read:
      > Seagate will drop the capacity of a 60GB platter to 40GB through a technical process it calls destroking.
      > If margins are so tight, I can't figure out how destroking could be happening. I associate intentional crippling of products with monopolies.

      From the article's last paragraph:

      Seagate will drop the capacity of a 60GB platter to 40GB through a technical process it calls destroking. Why demote a 60GB platter to 40GB? "Because PC makers have certain price points they want to hit," Eisman says, and smaller hard drive sizes are another way to differentiate products.

    2. Re:Destroking by DustMagnet · · Score: 2
      I'm sorry I guess I didn't explain my point. If Seagate makes almost no money selling drives with 60GB platters (see parent article), how can they afford to disable 1/3 of the disk space and sell the drive for less. They should be losing money on every destroked drive.

      I normally only see behavior like destroking on high margin items. For example, Intel CPUs (before AMD got good again).

      --
      'SBEMAIL!' is better than a goat!!
  92. Re:I want a silent hard drive, not a fast hard dri by Erbo · · Score: 2

    I just installed a Maxtor 80 Gb 5400 RPM drive in my PC, and it's very quiet...quieter than my old 13 Gb unit. In fact, it seems like I can't hear the new drive at all. Certainly not when the CD-ROM is spinning...now that makes a racket.

    --
    Be who you are...and be it in style!
  93. Archive HDTV by Grayswan · · Score: 1

    Try archiving HDTV. At 19.4Mbps, you will be shocked at how small an 80Gig drive is. It will hold only about 9.5 hours worth. I've got plenty of large drives and need more.

    --
    If you open your mind too wide, people will throw trash in it.
  94. Re:I want a silent hard drive, not a fast hard dri by Jucius+Maximus · · Score: 1
    "Certainly not when the CD-ROM is spinning...now that makes a racket."

    Try a plextor 40x12x40 IDE CDRw drive. It is worlds QUIETER than my old plextor 16x10x40. Go figure.

  95. HD size linked to broadband speeds? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Is it just me, or does it seem there's a direct correlation between your download speeds and your hard drive size?

    Unless you create huge files (digital movies) there's only so many places a person can get data to fill their hard drive. Since most DVDs are not data, the only other medium is CDs, and 650megs barely makes a dent in even a small 10gig hard drive.

    So the only other source for data is the internet. If you have a 56k modem, it would take a long time to download enough to fill even 1 gig. However, with broadband, it's full in a fraction of the time. Anyone with broadband at home would agree: they downloaded a lot more once they had broadband. Whether it's mp3s, movies, games or p0rn.

    Before I had broadband I had a 20 gig hard drive and couldn't even fill half of it. After broadband I bought another 20 gig, then sold them for two 40gigs. Now I'm selling those for a 120 and 100gig. All because of broadband.

    If I were hard drive manufactures I'd be damn sure to market to the broadband market, either form partnerships or sell directly to customers. Because without broadband no one needs anything larger than 10gigs.

  96. That's 6 orders of magnitude by leonbrooks · · Score: 2

    The `of magnitude' is the implied default. With three orders of fries, and shakes all 'round.

    --
    Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
  97. Min wage creaste unemployement by nuggz · · Score: 2

    Lets say the miniumum wage is $5/hr
    I have a job opening that will be profitable for me if I pay $5/hr.
    I pay $5/hr, make profit everyone wins.

    Raise the minimum wage to $6/hr, I don't make a profit at that wage, so I don't hire anyone.
    Someone is unemployed, and I don't make profit, and others don't benefit from my service. But at least we didn't exploit that unemployed guy.

  98. No American and Russians invented TV by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae408 .cfm

    Zworykin and Farnsworth, working separately.

    Zworykin (Russian) patented what worked like a television camera. Fransworth (American) patented what would allow signal to transfer.

    John Logie Baird, the Scottish guy, just had something that transfered silhouetes later on that he dubbed "television." His was later than Zworykin's and mechanical, not electronic.

    The creators of the modern television are Zworykin and Fransworth because they used electronics.

    Is your television mechanical? No. So obviously Baird did completely nothing except to invent the name television.

  99. You're wrong by GPS+Pilot · · Score: 1

    If you're worried that workers in the third world are underpaid (and they are), you should wholeheartedly support globalization of markets. The places where people are suffering are the places where capitalism has not yet worked its mojo.

    Take this hard drive industry example. Moving production overseas boosts the standard of living for those workers who now have high-tech jobs. Back in the states, the manufacturers pass along a portion of the labor savings to consumers, which makes computers more affordable. 99.99% of Americans never worked in the hard drive industry, and their standard of living increases in a noticible way by the reduced cost of hard drives and assembled computers. The only people who don't benefit are the 0.01% of Americans who worked as laborers in the hard drive industry. Sorry, but the benefits for the rest of the world far outweigh their loss. The net benefit to the human race is substantial. Moving these types of jobs overseas is the Right Thing To Do.

    You are right about one thing: when the American standard of living goes down, it has a deleterious ripple effect on the standard of living in every country.

    That is exactly why we should outsource these types of jobs to the third world. Doing so increases the standard of living of the average American.

    Here's an excellent analogy. It's possible to grow oranges in Maine. Really, it is. You can build big expensive greenhouses for the orange trees, and heat them in the winter.

    Does it make sense to forbid the good people of Maine from outsourcing their orange production to Florida? Well, the Maine agriculture lobby and greenhouse builders in Maine would love it -- they would make a lot of money. But that represents less than 1% of Maine's population. The standard of living of the other 99% would suffer. For them, the price of a glass of orange juice would probably increase by 1500%. And what about the poor orange farmers in Florida whose business would suffer? I'm sure you can see that it makes no sense to cater to small special interest groups (in this case, Maine orange growers).

    So, unrestricted free trade is a good thing within these 50 states, and it's no different when you talk about international trade. For some strange reason (perhaps misplaced patriotism), many people can't seem to grok that. But it doesn't matter whether you're talking about oranges or hard drive labor, Florida or Indonesia. Let the money flow where it will, and the human race will soar.

    --
    That that is is that that that that is not is not.
  100. Mexico???!!! by commodoresloat · · Score: 2

    You're probably sending them to Juarez!!! Pirate.

    1. Re:Mexico???!!! by gimpboy · · Score: 1

      you mean WaReZ? yep we're pirates-eyepatch and everything.

      --
      -- john