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Macworld: No new Towers, But 17-inch iMac

Posted by CmdrTaco on from the no-surprises-here dept.

Les writes "Mac insider site Think Secret has its scoop on what Apple CEO Steve Jobs will announce at Macworld Expo in New York next week. The site says that Power Mac G4s won't be updated until August, but we'll instead see a 17" flat-panel iMac and a demo of OS X 10.2 Jaguar."

266 comments

  1. Cool... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look forward to seeing OS-X 10.2

  2. There goes their ticket to Macworld... by 1010011010 · · Score: 5, Funny


    I assume they're "on the list," now.

    --
    Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
    1. Re:There goes their ticket to Macworld... by Bearpaw · · Score: 2

      I think they were already on the list. Not sure why Apple would bother, though. Wouldn't it make more sense to go after rumor sites that leaked real secrets? (Maybe I just haven't read ThinkSecret enough for a good data sample, but few of the rumors I've read there have proven out.)

    2. Re:There goes their ticket to Macworld... by CarrionBird · · Score: 1

      They are already beink guilty of krimethink, send in the Ministry of Love.

      --
      Free Mac Mini Yeah, it's
    3. Re:There goes their ticket to Macworld... by nobodyman · · Score: 1

      I read the IMac rumor on CNet, too. I'm curious as to what publications *will* be allowed to attend.

    4. Re:There goes their ticket to Macworld... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I just don't get the handwringing about not giving press passes to "rumour sites". Its Apple's party and they can invite who they want. If a rumour site hurts apple's bottom line (and they do by pre-announcing products such that people are waiting for the speed-bumped processor or bigger screen) then why should they receive any sort of benefit (in the form of a press pass to see the keynote)? If the rumour site wants to be there, they can pay the conference fee just like everyone else.

      Possibly the more important thing to note is that almost two years ago, Jobs announced that Apple would be moving away from announcing products at MacWorld because it sets the expectation of the public and hurts apple's bottom line. Remember, the iPod was introduced at an "Apple Event", not a conference.

    5. Re:There goes their ticket to Macworld... by cosmo7 · · Score: 2

      i understand that both these sites are protesting apple's labelling them as "rumor" sites.

    6. Re:There goes their ticket to Macworld... by HiredMan · · Score: 2

      Actually they were really the one's that broke the story way back on July 2nd. I guess figuring they had nothing to lose...

      And also just as clarification they aren't banning people from the event - they're just denying them press passes. But as they mention in the article many press outlets were going to regular badges anyway because employees are being instructed not to talk to people with press credentials.

      Actually of the usual rumors sites this one seems pretty reasonable and will probably be proven mostly right... As a rule Think Secret is the best "rumors" site at the moment.

      =tkk

      --
      Bill Gates - Creationist?!?
    7. Re:There goes their ticket to Macworld... by Toraz+Chryx · · Score: 2

      Also, the 1Ghz PowerMac's were unleashed _after_ MW this January...

      I'd honestly be surprised if a tweaked tower featuring the new northbridge from the Xserve doesn't materialise though?

    8. Re:There goes their ticket to Macworld... by BitGeek · · Score: 2



      Yeah, clearly they aren't rumors sites! Sheesh.

      All the bullshit you see running around is annoying-- people with rumors in their name claiming not to be about rumors

      and people claiming apple employees won't talk to the press-- that's absurd.

      Its rampant paranoia.

      Unfortunately the people who run these sites are like your average slashdot linux whiner-- probably 15 and not quite yet mature.

      --
      Yeah, and you guys panned the ipod too: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23/ 1816257
    9. Re:There goes their ticket to Macworld... by flagstone · · Score: 1
      macrumors.com
      macosrumors.com

      Hmmmm, what could possibly cause Apple to label them as "rumor" sites?

      --
      These people have looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined.
    10. Re:There goes their ticket to Macworld... by BitGeek · · Score: 2



      True, but that is twice a year when they really have everyone's attention, so it makes it a good time to announce new products.

      But I think you're correct in pointing out the trend.

      --
      Yeah, and you guys panned the ipod too: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23/ 1816257
    11. Re:There goes their ticket to Macworld... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      Well, they were already, of course. The bigger question: is Slashdot now on The List? Would Jobs deny Cmdr Taco a press pass?

    12. Re:There goes their ticket to Macworld... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yer dum

  3. Oh No! by night_flyer · · Score: 1, Redundant

    I hope they dont get blacklisted now!

    --


    Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
    Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
    1. Re:Oh No! by JPriest · · Score: 0

      They have already been blacklisted.

      --
      Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
    2. Re:Oh No! by night_flyer · · Score: 2

      funny, I didnt see their name in the article....

      --


      Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
      Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
  4. Jaguar or Jagwer or... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Do you think apple (has it was said before) will improve linux binaries support from the 10.2?
    There is always a big buzz arround MacWorld, but all the news that come out are always first in the rumors.

    1. Re:Jaguar or Jagwer or... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
      Do you think apple (has it was said before) will improve linux binaries support from the 10.2?

      What the hell are you talking about?

      • Mac OS X does not run linux binaries, is not intended to run linux binaries, and likely never will. It uses an entirely different binary *format*. Linux binaries are "ELF" executables. Mac OS X binaries are "mach-o" executables. To Mac OS X, ELF binaries are noise. It would be possible -- rather easy , such translation layers exist for BSD already -- to create a special compatibility layer for Mac OS X that would let it understand and run ELF binaries, and trick the ELF binaries into sensing the presence of a more linuxy environment. However, nobody, especially not apple, is even really seriously considering implementing this, because:
      • There is no good reason for Mac OS X to support Linux binaries, as think about it-- where are you going to find PPC Linux binaries? The macintosh uses a completely different microchip from the x86, the "PowerPC". This means that any program you run on OS X or Linux/PPC *must* be compiled for PowerPC. This is why they don't make WINE for OS X. If the program is open source, you can just compile it yourself for OS X, in which case you don't need Linux/PPC binary support. If the program is closed source, the closed source vendor is far, far more likely to offer an OS X compiled binary version than they are to offer a Linux/PPC compiled binary version, becuase OS X has a larger installed user base, in which case you don't need Linux/PPC binary support.
      • Now, there is a product called "Virtual PC" by Connectix that emulates an x86 computer, and will let you (with a large speed hit) run x86 linux, unix or Windows inside a virtual machine. You can run x86 linux binaries inside of that just fine. This is not, however, a product that is going to be part of the core OS anytime soon.
      • And, finally, if what you really meant was source compatibility improvements-- i.e., making OS X more likely to let you compile and install linux software programs on the first try-- i've been using OS X since the first public beta, and i can frankly say mac OS X source-compatibility with linux has gotten steadily better with every single version, and i'm certain that it will continue to get better as apple cleans up their code.
      Why do you want linux binary support in Mac OS X?
    2. Re:Jaguar or Jagwer or... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the point of this would be...?

      I can compile from source, why would I want your filthy linux binaries?

    3. Re:Jaguar or Jagwer or... by larkost · · Score: 2

      Question: Why should they look at this at all? The only possible binaries they could support would be from PPCLinux (and Yellow Dog). The resources for those two are nice, but are starting to be eclipsed by the Darwin ports lists. And since I don't know of any PPCLinux binary-only software... where would that work get them?

    4. Re:Jaguar or Jagwer or... by Strog · · Score: 1

      The only possible binaries they could support would be from PPCLinux (and Yellow Dog)

      And Mandrake, Debian, Suse, etc.

      Please don't use "only" if you aren't going to be complete. The mentitioned distros do have a large number packages that would be available in binary form. It still would take less work to make them compile natively on OS X than to write a Linux compatibility layer. Most of the major ones already have been.

    5. Re:Jaguar or Jagwer or... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you are aware that Mac OS X is PPC, and mandrake, debian, suse, etc, for all practical purposes, are x86 only?

      A Linux compatability layer might be nice for darwin x86, but Apple doesn't have any use for it.

    6. Re:Jaguar or Jagwer or... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *sigh*

      Link to Debian/PPC home page
      (Link to a project called "Fink" that offers apt-get and a server with very many Mac OS X native binary packages of popular linux software packages)

      Link to Mandrake/PPC faq and ordering information

      Link to SUSE/PPC home page (With screenshots of MOL (like VMWare for mac) in action!)

      Mandrake, debian and SUSE are not "for all practical purposes" x86 only. It is unlikely in the extreme that you will find linux/ppc binary files on the random internet, but full, current versions (in the case of SUSE, including all 8 CDs!) of the three linux distros you mention are available and functioning for PPC computers. I have not used Mandrake and SUSE, but i have Debian/PPC installed on a spare mac at home, and i can tell you that it works exactly the same as the x86 version. In fact, this is the biggest advantage (besides apt-get) of Debian/PPC over Yellow Dog, for me-- the documentation and IRC help channels for debian/x86 apply absolutely equally to debian/ppc, making troubleshooting way easier than if you used Yellow Dog or something else obscure.

      -- author of anonymous coward post #3855992

    7. Re:Jaguar or Jagwer or... by Strog · · Score: 1

      How am I running Mandrake 8.2 PPC on my PowerMac 8600 then?

      There are 2 full CDs for the Mandrake PPC version that has almost all the same packages as the x86 version. The only way I can tell I'm not on my x86 box is doing a uname or because there isn't as much noise coming from the box. Suse has 8 full cds in its PPC version and I hear Debian is between the other 2 mentitioned in number of packages. Performance is good too so I don't think you are talking about optimizations, right?

      Maybe I should be more clear here. I said that there are plenty of PPC binarys out there but it would be better to tweak the source and have apps natively compiled on OS X than an emulation layer.

  5. damn those high expectations... by netsrek · · Score: 1

    Must be hard to try and live up to your own hype machine....

    Oh well. Another boring Expo with barely anything to announce... Maybe that's why the rumour sites don't get to get media passes, they'd simply implode at the difference between what they've been hoping, and what they're getting....

    --

    i don't read slashdot anymore.
    1. Re:damn those high expectations... by MoneyT · · Score: 2

      problem with your theory is, Apple lives off of hype. That's how the company runs. They don't have to have the greatest product in terms o technical specs, they just have to have the greatest product in terms of user experience. And whether you like apple or not, the hype is fun. It gets imaginations running, and gives you something other than the next speed processor for you to be excited about. Being an aple customer is fun, and the hype is all part of the experience.

      As for not having anything good to release at their expos, when was the last time you saw any company with a great expo release? Hell, half the time, you never even know when the PC expos are.

      --
      T Money
      World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
  6. Rumors! The Expo has not yet happened. by EchoMirage · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Unfortunately Taco forgot to denote that these are rumors. Although Think Secret claims to "know" definitively, they only publish rumors based on heresay, second-hand knowledge, and claimed industry "insiders." Many times, they have been wrong.

    If you will remember a day or three ago, sites like Think Secret were prevented from obtaining a media pass to the Expo because of their ability to wildly spin incorrect information (amongst other conspiracy theories).

    In other words, this is only a possibility, but the Expo hasn't happened yet.

    1. Re:Rumors! The Expo has not yet happened. by JPriest · · Score: 2, Funny
      "Earlier in the week, Think Secret reported that Apple's iTools web services would be rebranded as ".Mac" Sources have since confirmed the news, and that the name change will be made public at Macworld."

      Is ThinkSecret trolling?

      --
      Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
    2. Re:Rumors! The Expo has not yet happened. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know I want to pay $5 or more a month for rumors linked to on another site. Who wouldn't?

    3. Re:Rumors! The Expo has not yet happened. by Saint+Fnordius · · Score: 5, Insightful

      1. ThinkSecret is less than useless, since their rumor hit miss ratio is equal to "dart board" methods.

      2. Ziff-Davis (ZDNet and C|Net) seem to be the source of this smokescreen. Also not the most accurate source of Apple news. Sometimes I get the feeling that the guys over at C|Net are more knee-jerk than factual (although David Coursey got real Mac-lustful after his trial with a flat-screen iMac).

      3. The other rumor was the resurrection of the Cube, bundled with 17" flatscreens. After all, the Cube wasn't killed, just put into hibernation. Maybe they had to pull it back out of the freezer to make room for Ted Williams?

      4. If it is true, then Apple needs to lower their inventory of current iMacs, as their price is going to drop as soon as the bigger, better version hits the market. The only explanation as to why they haven't done so yet is because they know it's a sign the sages look for. But it isn't a good reason at all.
      5. There was a fifth reason to discount this rumor, but the RDF rays are wearing off. Fnord.

    4. Re:Rumors! The Expo has not yet happened. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Maybe they had to pull it back out of the freezer to make room for Ted Williams?"

      Damn. That was cold.

    5. Re:Rumors! The Expo has not yet happened. by frankie · · Score: 1

      Yeah, the return of the Cube would be a real coup, if the price were down near $1000 this time. The Switch campaign might be tugging at some hearts and minds, but it hits a brick wall where the wallet is concerned.

      There are 3 things I want to see at the keynote this year:
      1. price drop and/or 17" LCD on the iMac. The fascination has worn off; it's too expensive for a low-mid consumer PC.
      2. DDR in the PowerMac. Whatever problems Motorola has in the megahertz department, memory bandwidth is the real limiting factor right now.
      3. a cheap expandable desktop, aka the PowerMac G4 LC. I need a new home machine this fall, and I can't afford $1300 for a base-model G4.
    6. Re:Rumors! The Expo has not yet happened. by bigfatlamer · · Score: 1
      1. ThinkSecret is less than useless, since their rumor hit miss ratio is equal to "dart board" methods.
      Actually, Think Secret's hit:miss ratio is closer to that of the famous "drunk howler monkey dartboard" method which is to say that they rarely even get the dart near the board, nevermind actually hitting something useful.

      BTW...now we're both on "the list."

      E
      --
      There's one thing computing teaches you, and that's that there's no point to remembering everything.
      --Doug Copland
  7. Flawed reasoning by YanceyAI · · Score: 4, Insightful
    According to the article:

    How are we so certain that Macworld won't bring new towers? Use common sense! Just look at the Apple promotion announced earlier this week offering $300-$500 back when a Power Mac G4 is purchased along with a 17-inch Studio Display, 22-inch Cinema Display, or 23-inch Cinema HD Display. This is a clear sign that Apple is sitting on a huge inventory of G4 towers. (emphasis mine)

    I'm not saying that they're wrong, just that the speculation is weak. They may have a ton of displays, or they may be trying to move the inventory for the very fact that they are releasing a new tower.

    --
    Can I bum a sig?
    1. Re:Flawed reasoning by kangolo · · Score: 1

      yet the promotion runs until August, and doesn't stop at macworld

    2. Re:Flawed reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yet the promotion runs until August, and doesn't stop at macworld

      Wouldn't be the the first time Apple has announced new machines only to ship them a month later.

    3. Re:Flawed reasoning by die_rollerblader · · Score: 1

      It wouldn't make sense to run the promotion into August if they were going to give the G4 towers a speed bump at this show. Apple doesn't want to give a rebate on the NEW G4 towers, just the old ones. Now if Apple were releasing G5 towers at the show, then the rebates for G4 towers would be a good idea still. But we all know that isn't going to happen this year.

      Hopefully January will be a different story. Plus that gives me time to save up! :)

    4. Re:Flawed reasoning by Fred+IV · · Score: 1

      They may have a ton of displays, or they may be trying to move the inventory for the very fact that they are releasing a new tower.

      My guess would be the former, remember when the new iMac came out and Apple had to delay shipping new orders, then raise prices because of an display shortage?

      Maybe they pushed production a little too hard after that, iMac sales dropped off, now thay're stuck with a glut of screens and reduced demand.

    5. Re:Flawed reasoning by rworne · · Score: 1

      Apple's killed promotions mid-stream when new products are ready for release. They've done it last year with the Powerbook.

      --
      I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
    6. Re:Flawed reasoning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here is better flawed reasoning, as an engineer who has seen a dissasembled "arm" in the current iMac. The difference in size of a 17 and 15" monitor is ~28%, actually more because the housing is larger than the actual screen. So lets ballpark 30%, and say that the weight scales linearly, which it doesnt, as the main weight is in the supporting frame of the display, so this is a conservative thing to say linearly.

      The dimensions of the "arm" are what they are. Jobs would not let them grow for aesthetic reasons - it would just look plain wrong. So using the same space, 30% more weight must be held up. The springs and pivots inside cannot change dimensions, leaving the materials or preload to be adjusted. Ultimately when you do that, the arm becomes difficult to move because you're working against ~30% more force.

      So we will not likely see 17" LCDs coming out on the current design of iMacs. Perhaps a redesign allowing for more weight will work, but not this design. Of course, they could pull it out of their asses and make it work.

      I'm posting anonymously as although your typical mechanical engineer could figure this out, I probably know more than I should about the issue. However, I am violating no NDA.

  8. Steve's thunder... by zloppy303 · · Score: 1

    blacklist or not, i guess they stole steve's thunder yet again :) (or his mojo according to austin powers)

    --
    Beware of Programmers who carry screwdrivers. -- Leonard Brandwein
    1. Re:Steve's thunder... by johnpaul191 · · Score: 2

      eh, not really. saying "new G4s" is nothing. many many people predicted a new iMac last January. a lot of those predictions were 17" CRT (now the eMac) or a 15" LCD. NOBODY predicted that it would turn out like it did.
      same thing with the ipod. everyone was buying the iwalk rumors, so they lost focus on the more true leaks.
      the most recent time i think Steve was really caught was with the leaks of the cube. it was on a few rumor sites, though nobody really had it quite right (most said it looked like a G4 case but pushed into a little cube, handles and all). before those leaks nobody expected a "new" mac. then ATI backed it up in a comment about their new card coming out at MacWorldNYC and how it would be featured in the new Mac Apple was going to suprise everyone with. OOPS! that one got Steve's goat.
      anyway i can predict updates to whatever device i want, and of course something will happen. last year they kept saying "this is a software focused expo" and still updated the G4 towers (nothing too major, but and update) and bumped iMacs i think. next week will probably be the first legit public molestation of 10.2, and probably some tweaks to hardware. hopefully a revamped G4 tower will be there, but between a first hand look at xserve and 10.2/Jaguar i am ready to take the hike up there. anything on top of that is just bonus. of course i am hoping they will have at least a few machines with 10.2 if not more. last year they had a handful of machines running 10.1 but they were staffed so you could not poke at them too much. with the expected release date of it so near, i would think a solid build on the current powermacs is ready for display.

  9. stupid stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the iMac is brand new, and the powermac is not. Powermac has to have an update sooner rather than later and the iMac is still riding high. C|Net also has a story on this, I assume based on Think Secret's story. I like TS but here they're wrong.

    1. Re:stupid stupid by Bizzarobot · · Score: 1

      The powermac was updated more recently than the iMac-- not by much, by if you're going in order. Actually, the iMac has never been updated since since re-inception in january. If one or the other is up for an update, it's the iMac.

  10. Take This With a Grain of Salt by TomHandy · · Score: 4, Insightful
    ThinkSecret is one of the less accurate rumor sites......and I don't think they're even all that good. Look at their explanation for why they are so sure G4 speed bumps won't be announced.....all they are going on is "common sense" that there is a special promotion running right now for current G4's.

    And some of their other rumors reported for Macworld New York are patently ridiculous, despite being labeled as 100%....i.e. iTools being renamed .Mac.....which is so inherently stupid it isn't even funny, considering that the name makes no sense at all since it would only cause consumer confusion, especially since there is no .mac TLD to use for such a thing. And it would probably add unnecessary confusion with .NET as well, even though iTools and .NET are not really related technologies or systems at all.

    1. Re:Take This With a Grain of Salt by Alan+Partridge · · Score: 2, Interesting

      the .Mac nugget is gleaned from beta builds of OSX that they've obtained wherein - apparently - iTools is rebranded as .Mac. This could be a ruse on Apple's part to wind up the rumour mongers (who they HATE) or a working title or any one of a hundred other things. Face it TS, nothing's 100% until it's in the shops - and even then it might die due to any number of reasons. Think Cube.

      --
      That was classic intercourse!
    2. Re:Take This With a Grain of Salt by Lev13than · · Score: 1

      Actually, unless someone has been spending way too much free time in Photoshop, the .Mac thing looks pretty plausible. ThinkSecret has posted screen shots of an updated iTools interface with .Mac as the new name.

      Having said that, the hoax potential is still there but there's no reason to discount it completely.

      See here for screenshot

      --
      When you have nothing left to burn you must set yourself on fire
    3. Re:Take This With a Grain of Salt by Richard5mith · · Score: 1

      "iTools being renamed .Mac.....which is so inherently stupid it isn't even funny"

      Well, that one is based on pretty strong facts I'm afraid. All references to iTools in the latest version of the Jaguar beta's have been replaced with .mac instead. Any Apple news freak knows that.

    4. Re:Take This With a Grain of Salt by TomHandy · · Score: 1

      Hrmm. It just seems so mind-boggling stupid that I can't even fathom it, unless Apple is getting control of a TLD named .Mac, it just seems like this will cause pointless confusion......people trying to go to www.apple.mac, or people confusing this with .NET, or who knows what else. I would really hope that iTools being named .Mac in beta builds is just an internal joke.....it just makes no sense at all as a commercial name, especially for consumer level services.

    5. Re:Take This With a Grain of Salt by CProgrammer98 · · Score: 1

      Why the concern with the TLD? the .net TLD has nothing in common whatsoever with Microsoft's .Net platform. Neither do MS control the .net TLD

      I fail to see why you think it would be confusing for Apple to use .mac as a product name.

      --
      And the people shall be oppressed, every one by another, and every one by his neighbour Isaiah 3:5
    6. Re:Take This With a Grain of Salt by TomHandy · · Score: 1
      At least in the case of .NET, even though it has nothing to do with the actual .NET TLD, it is something that exists. .Mac is completely made-up, and just doesn't make any sense to be to use as a name......if it's just a trendy replacement to use dot (.) instead of i in product naming, I still think it's a bad idea.

      It's not that I think they need to have an actual TLD for this, it's just that since there isn't one, .mac doesn't make much sense to me as a service name.

      Will just wait and see what the full context of this is I guess.

    7. Re:Take This With a Grain of Salt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds more like a programmer joke to me.

      I'll make it unfunny by explaining the punchline: iTools ain't all that different in it's current state from MS's consumer .NET stuff. Just 'thick' services over HTTP.

    8. Re:Take This With a Grain of Salt by jafac · · Score: 2

      .mac would be rather bass-ackwards for the company that freed us from filename extensions.

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
    9. Re:Take This With a Grain of Salt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except of course, with OSX, filename extensions are back with a vengeance. The whole system is fucked up now, and I can't get photoshop 4 in classic to drag-n-drop open any jpg's created in OSX.

    10. Re:Take This With a Grain of Salt by Golias · · Score: 1

      For the record, ".NET" is also a really, really stupid name.

      --

      Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

  11. Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why do we have to believe this damn rumor site?
    Other rumors sites say Theres will be updated PMs
    (www.macrumors.com) but then again they are RUMORS.Not SCOOPS. In the mac commuunity we are used to rumors like this. Remember the iWalk?

  12. Yeah, Think Secret is reliable by francism · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Seriously, Think Secret might be the only rumor site still spewing out stuff on a daily basis, but they have NO RELIABILITY! Before AppleInsider disappeared and As the Apple Turns turned into a 'sometimes weekly depending on the baby' show, Think Secret was the joke of the Mac community. They were like Weekly World News; amusing but you knew you were reading garbage. Now we are expected to take their 'rumors' as fact? Sure, they can speculate like everyone else, but the fact that Slashdot and CNET News.com run the story at all is embarassing. The guy does this for hits, plain and simple. If they were somewhat reliable, don't you think that Apple would take them down? This especially holds true when the mass media picks up the story.

    1. Re:Yeah, Think Secret is reliable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not really hard to believe that Slashdot publishes rumors. The editors do it _all_ the time. They need hits just like that site does, though Slashdot has absolutely zero creativity. About all the creativity they have is coming up with negative comments towards Microsoft and "ain't that swell" comments for $2,000 useless gadgets. They haven't even updated the site layout in about a year now (which hasn't changed much from the initial /. site). Just another slow news day.. gotta do what ya gots to do. Pimping rumors as news.

    2. Re:Yeah, Think Secret is reliable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're just one of those astroturfers from Apple, hired to disparage all the rumor sites.

    3. Re:Yeah, Think Secret is reliable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      What are you talking about? ThinkSecret hasn't actually been wrong about a rumor in a long time - check the archives. They've posted dozens of articles since the last Macworld, and I'm struggling to think of one of their rumors that didn't come true in that time.

      Meanwhile, sites like MOSR and SpyMac are wrong with just about every article they put up.

    4. Re:Yeah, Think Secret is reliable by pinkpineapple · · Score: 2

      MacOSRumors is even worse. There you can read the kind of articles you got to wonder if they were written as to make you laught about the Mac platform and people who use it or not.
      What's funny with all these rumor mill sites is being able to use google caches and search back in time prior to major announcements. Now you know that you read predictions even further away from the truth than when Bill Gates opens his mouth on how he sees the future two years ahead.

      PPA, the girl next door.

      --
      -- I feel better now. Thanks for asking.
  13. iMac prices here in my country by fabiolrs · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Here in Brazil all Apple machines are import from the US. Ok, no problem with that, the problem is that a iMac, while costing $1,400 in the US, costs almost $3,000 here! :((( Sure we have taxes, but 3,000? Come on Apple, I would buy one for 2,000!!!! :))

    --
    Fabio - Sumare/Sao Paulo/Brazil/South America/Earth/Solar System/Milky Way/Universe
    http://www.morroida.com.br
    1. Re:iMac prices here in my country by incorporalis · · Score: 1
      I believe that all hardware imported into brazil has huge tariff on all computer hardware imported from other countries (or at least the USA).

      My computer produces software that is dongle protected. Our software can be imported easily to Brazil, but the dongles have to be made and distributed from within Brazil.

      --
      I'm a code monkey
    2. Re:iMac prices here in my country by mjpaci · · Score: 2

      A few years ago I was speaking with an American who had been doing missionary work in Brazil. He told me that Brazil tariffs the living sh*t out of computer products entering the country. This, of course, is to help protect Brazil's box makers from predatory pricing or something like that. I don't know if this is still true as this conversation was held 7 or 8 years ago.

      There's not a whole lot Apple can do against steep tariffs. Even if Apple were to import the boxes into Brazil at cost, they still would be priced near $3,000.

      --Mike

    3. Re:iMac prices here in my country by incorporalis · · Score: 2, Funny

      I meant the company I work for produces software. My computer does not produce the software on its own.

      --
      I'm a code monkey
    4. Re:iMac prices here in my country by TwitchCHNO · · Score: 1

      1,400.00 USD = 3,980.90 BRL

      1 USD = 2.84350 BRL 1 BRL = 0.351680 USD

      Move to a country with a better economy if you want a cheaper iMac - or at least spend a smaller percentage of your yearly income.

      Or you could help improve the economy of Brazil. How - just like we Americans did. We ignored patents on technology in other countries & stole the ideas of inventions of the world for over 200 years. It's only w/ in the last 50 that we've produced anything of any value (IP wise).

      So you want a cheap iMac. Start a computer manufacturing company & reverse engineer the iMac (yes so it works w/ mac OS X including the boot ROM). Then lobby your government to put a $3000 BRL tarrif on all imported computers. After that's done start selling your computer (complete w/ a full version of Mac OS X) to not only Brazillions but Argentinians, Chileans, Mexicans, Germans, & Americans.

      What's Apple going to do? Sue? Not if your government ignores the lawyers Apple sends (Much like it is w/ the AIDS pharmeceuticals - I think that's Brazil anyway). So just remember to have a strong lobbyist group that has in thier pockets the most important government officials.

      Brazil should do this with all thier industries. Become self reliant! Fuck foreign investment! Steal & rape & pillage the IP of everyone for Brazils own advantage. Then you will have a little slice of America to call your own! [except w/ better beaches & prettier women ;)]

      --
      ___________________________
      I'm not a geek, but I play one on TV.
    5. Re:iMac prices here in my country by KUHurdler · · Score: 1

      Brazil tariffs the living sh*t out of computer products

      Wow that missionary has a potty mouth. I bet he made quite an impact.

      --
      Fix Your Own TV - RiddledTV.com Avoid the Landfill
    6. Re:iMac prices here in my country by Large+Green+Mallard · · Score: 4, Informative

      Brazil has tried this before.. have a look at http://www.applefritter.com/macclones/unitron/ for a 1980's Brazillian Mac clone :)

    7. Re:iMac prices here in my country by mjpaci · · Score: 2

      Funny. I paraphrased what he said. Call it artistic license.

    8. Re:iMac prices here in my country by fabiolrs · · Score: 1

      Sure we have huge tariffs... but apple still thinks its better to sell two products at the cost of 10,000 than 10,000 at the cost of 1,000... :)))

      --
      Fabio - Sumare/Sao Paulo/Brazil/South America/Earth/Solar System/Milky Way/Universe
      http://www.morroida.com.br
    9. Re:iMac prices here in my country by fabiolrs · · Score: 1

      As i said in my last post, brazil really tariffs products a lot. I read in a magazine once that apple products COULD (and in my opinion: SHOULD) be cheaper, however apple made the decision to ask a bit more for their products because their were getting money to build a factory and then build Macs here in Brazil. Sorry, but I dont agree with such decision! :)))

      --
      Fabio - Sumare/Sao Paulo/Brazil/South America/Earth/Solar System/Milky Way/Universe
      http://www.morroida.com.br
    10. Re:iMac prices here in my country by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is if your costs are $1,001 per unit even if you sell 1,000. All former .com employees repeat after me "cash flow and profits, not revenues."

    11. Re:iMac prices here in my country by Gehenna_Gehenna · · Score: 1

      This may be a dumb idea,but why not visit New York? Spend some money. Visit the mac store. Get a cool statue. Circumvent tariffs.

      --

    12. Re:iMac prices here in my country by fabiolrs · · Score: 1

      We are not the best doing that! :)) China is much better on copying other people stuff. I still remember the day a MiG-23 crashed there (it was a top secret airplane). All of a sudden they made 28 identical copies! :)))

      --
      Fabio - Sumare/Sao Paulo/Brazil/South America/Earth/Solar System/Milky Way/Universe
      http://www.morroida.com.br
    13. Re:iMac prices here in my country by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      A few years ago I was speaking with an American who had been doing missionary work in Brazil.
      Hummm... I thought Brazil also belongs to America (as in the continent), and therefore Brazilians are also Americans.

      In fact, "The United States of America" is sort of a wierd name for a country. There are several other countries called The United States of [insert the common name here]. Naming the country after the continent shows a lack of foresight from our forefathers.
  14. Re:i like mac and all but.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >what's apple doing that's new again?

    Making a 17'' all-in-one computer with a superior operating system that I'm going to buy

  15. Double Standard by Evro · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Since CNET is also running this story, shouldn't they now be considered a "rumors site" and have their press pass revoked from Macworld? Additionally, why is this news? Why not at least wait until after the product is announced? Is a 17" screen even worth mentioning? Or is it just something that's been submitted 10 billion times and is only being posted to make the deluge stop?

    --
    rooooar
    1. Re:Double Standard by MoneyT · · Score: 2

      There's a difference. CNET is a new site, and is established as such. ThinkSecret and many other rumor sites are not, regardless of what they claim. Honestly it may not be the best PR move, but apple is perfectly within their bounds to restrict press passes to the press.

      --
      T Money
      World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
  16. C|Net too by JHromadka · · Score: 4, Interesting

    C|Net has an article that almost mirrors what ThinkSecret is saying. Personally, I'm happy with my PowerBook, so if the big news is getting 10.2 on August 5, I'll be happy.

    --
    "The objective of securing the safety of Americans from crime and terror has been achieved." -- John Ashcroft
    1. Re:C|Net too by Paul+Burney · · Score: 2, Informative

      You said:

      C|Net has an article [com.com] that almost mirrors what ThinkSecret is saying

      From the article:

      As reported Monday by Mac enthusiast site ThinkSecret

      So it looks like C|Net is just rumor mongering as well. They aren't really confirming anything, just re-reporting.

      --
      <?php while ($self != "asleep") { $sheep_count++; } ?>
    2. Re:C|Net too by Perdo · · Score: 2

      Be happy spending $129 and if you are not going to pay, be happy stealing from Apple.

      --

      If voting were effective, it would be illegal by now.

  17. Re:i like mac and all but.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    wow a 7" dick ... that's amazing

    oh wait, I've got a 12" dick here in your Mom.

    Nooch.

  18. Macworlds are always ruined by high expectations by elliotj · · Score: 5, Funny

    The problem with the Mac web is that expectations run much higher than Apple can realistically deliver. So there's always a lot of hype prior to a Macworld and then much dissapointment following. Just look at the iPod: when it launched, the /. discussion was very critical, but now there's an abundance of stories about what a ground breaking product it is. That's ass-backwards if you ask me.

    So, I'd like to help make this a better Macworld, and at risk of incurring the wrath of Apple, I'd like to give you my rumor list for what we'll see:

    - A return to beige towers and CRT monitors
    - No more G4s. All Macs will now run on 1st generation G3s
    - Mac OS 9 will rise from the dead, and Steve will hold a funeral for unix (which is, afterall, dying .... if you believe the trolls around here).
    - An all new iPod will be 5 times the size and hold upto 7 songs!

    There it is. Don't hold your breath, but I think this is what we'll be seeing next week.

  19. CNET by aengblom · · Score: 4, Informative

    CNET has a story on the 17inchers too.

    --


    So close and yet so far from the world's perfect ID number
    1. Re:CNET by A_Non_Moose · · Score: 2

      CNET has a story on the 17inchers too.

      Dang...that just sounds so wrong!

      .

      --
      Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
    2. Re:CNET by Dot+Com+Drew · · Score: 1

      I believe you ment to say that sounds so WANG (insert link to penny-arcade.com here)

      --
      This .sig is .false
  20. Re:i like mac and all but.. by Alan+Partridge · · Score: 3, Interesting

    it's built into the machine, numb-nuts. Apple have been selling larger screens for years. But we're all really impressed with your big LCD - I bet it drives all the girls crazy when you tell them about it.

    --
    That was classic intercourse!
  21. lock out by cmdr_forge · · Score: 0

    rumour mill sites have been locked out this time. There has been much speculation on what is to be annouced this time. The rumours have ranged from annoucing the G5 to release 10.2. I am sure we will see next week

    1. Re:lock out by cmdr_forge · · Score: 0

      In fact, I am pretty sure that what you are seeing on thinksecret maybe disinformation, much like the IWALK(the supposed apple pdas). My prediction is demo of 10.2, maybe a updated look to g4.

  22. My predictions... by Jon+Abbott · · Score: 4, Funny


    - The current Apple Macintosh line will be cancelled.
    - New Apple computers, such as the Golden Delicious and Granny Smith will be unveiled.

    What do you think?

    --
    Slashdot's first reaction to VMware
    1. Re:My predictions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they came out with a Braeburn or a Fuji, I would buy one...

      I am a dork.

    2. Re:My predictions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      neither funny or creative. Just pathetic.

    3. Re:My predictions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've often wondered why apple never released a new computer that was not called "Macintosh". There was the apple 1, the apple 2, the Lisa, and in 1984 the Mac. The "Same" model for almost 20 years! And although I know about the whole thing with Intel not being able to patent numbers, which is why the 80586 was instead named Pentium (meaning 5), why was there never a Septium, Octium, etc. Will we be stuck with Pentium 2,3,4,5, etc chips for the next 1000 years???

    4. Re:My predictions... by flamingnight · · Score: 0

      Think about it:
      Apple I, Apple II, Apple III -- then Lisa/Mac
      8086, 80286, 80386, 80486 -- then Pentium (80586)

      They have changed. The deal with the Mac name is that it's been around for so long now, changing it wouldn't make much sense.

    5. Re:My predictions... by phillymjs · · Score: 2

      Ahh, yes, the Pentium, named by some dillhole marketdroids who didn't even think that the logical successor to "Pentium" would be "Sexium," a name sure to set off the bible-thumper crowd. And too bad, too, think of the lost marketing opportunity: "The Sexium: It makes surfing for pr0n on the Internet more fun!" If I close my eyes, I can see the "Sex Inside!" case emblems that were almost printed up.

      So now we've got Pentium II; Pentium: The Revenge; Pentium IV: The Pentium's Identical Cousin; Pentium XIV with Sprinkles... it's like how the Hitchhiker's Trilogy stretched to five books, only it was funny when Adams did it... with Intel, it's just stupid.

      ~Philly

  23. Steve and the PDA... by soboroff · · Score: 4, Insightful
    "0% - Mac PDA or tablet
    Our sources tell us Steve Jobs constantly complains about how bad the user experience is for Mac users using PDAs. From one source: "'Why is it so complicated?', Jobs has often said." Apple is working on something, that's for sure."
    I wonder if the user experience with PDAs wouldn't have been so bad if Jobs hadn't killed the Newton. I love my Palm, but I can't count how many times I wished it was a 4oz Newton!
    1. Re:Steve and the PDA... by suzerain · · Score: 1

      It's a dick thing with Steve.

      The Newton was Sculley's baby. Sculley had a hand in ousting Jobs the first time. Killing the Newton was like some huge triumph for him personally; I bet he was whacking off the whole time.

      Jobs is a great innovator, but he's got a tremendously poor track record when it comes to logic. Of course, that's why he comes up with a groundbreaking product every once in a while, but it's also why he managed to miss the PDA market bubble, even though when he took over Apple, he was sitting on the only serious competitor in the market.

      In retrospect, maybe it was a good thing, since the PDA market tanked. But I will always believe it was a decision based more on his ego than anything else.

      --
      gameDB
    2. Re:Steve and the PDA... by msouth · · Score: 2

      the newton division was losing money, a lot of money. One of the developers doing the handwriting recognition had recently thrown up his hands and decided that it would never be transparent (I thought it was great, but..).

      Finally, when the new CFO was brought in, guess how much cash apple had in the bank? One month's worth. They really truly were almost in a situation of not being able to make payroll.

      You certainly may be right about his reasons. After I heard all of the above, though, I was less enamored of that conclusion.

      --
      Liberty uber alles.
    3. Re:Steve and the PDA... by Lord_Slepnir · · Score: 2
      Jobs has often said." Apple is working on something, that's for sure."

      translation: Stick with us, our next version will be better. *cough* F.U.D. *cough*

    4. Re:Steve and the PDA... by GlenRaphael · · Score: 2
      the newton division was losing money, a lot of money.
      The newton division spent a lot of money developing the product, but it was not losing a lot of money at the end. As a separate company, Newton Inc was well on track to profitability. Steve chose to roll the company back into Apple a month after it was separated. There were interested buyers. If the financial situation was that bad the right thing to do would have been to sell the rest of Apple's interest in it.

      One of the developers doing the handwriting recognition had recently thrown up his hands and decided that it would never be transparent (I thought it was great, but..).
      Speaking as the guy who was testing the handwriting recognition, I challenge that statement. Rosetta's recognition was fantastic and getting better all the time. Just before the company was split off, the recognition development team was justifiably proud of their work and was already thinking about extending the same engine to do continuous recognition, to do voice recognition, and so forth. Newton recognition came a long, long way between 1.0 and 2.0. So unless you can tell us which of the developers had "thrown up his hands" I'm inclined to believe you're just blowing smoke.

      --
      I play Nerd-Folk!
    5. Re:Steve and the PDA... by msouth · · Score: 2

      I don't really have an agenda. I can't remember the name of the guy that told me that, or even exactly what he said. He was working with another guy I knew on some mathematics presentation/rendering/calculating stuff that looked really cool to me but never took off.

      Like I said, I thought it was great. I was surprised that anyone that had worked on it would be frustrated with it. Maybe I mistranslated what he said. It was right after they let them all go, and he told me that one of the guys had given up on it ever being transparent. That's all I can remember.

      I heard other rumors--one was that none of the interested buyers was willing to pay what Apple thought it was worth. Another was that Jobs took an eMate home and fell in love with it, prompting hime ot want to keep the technology so that Apple could go with it. (Having had an eMate and fallen in love with it, this was believable to me.)

      It's not that I don't believe Jobs could be that petty--I'm just saying that there are alternative possibilities. If it's really important to you I can track down the name of that guy for you :). (But seriously, send me and email and I'll look him up. I'm curious about it now.)

      I hated that the newton was killed, probably not as much as you, being as close to it as you were, but I was at that time hoping to find work developing for the newton full time. Every time I look at a Palm I just shrug and say "they're not there yet". Maybe my exploration of the alternative possibilities is because I really hope deep down that it will come back. If it was killed solely on account of ego it's not likely to. I guess we can always pray.

      --
      Liberty uber alles.
  24. Good Luck by Locke!Erasmus · · Score: 1

    I hope that slashdot does not incur the wrath of Apple because they have posted this story. I also hope that the Mac Expo delivers some really neat stuff. I have been considering purchasing a Mac for some time now.

    --
    I should have picked out the nickname Demosthenes!Tecumseh.
  25. Slightly OT: UK accounts packages for Mac? by mccalli · · Score: 1
    I would love to get an iMac, but a few things were holding me back. One was the small monitor - that seems to be being fixed.

    The other, somewhat more major one is that as far as I can tell there's no accounts package that adheres to UK rules. No UK version of Quicken. Nothing.

    I have seven years' worth of accounts data in Quicken. I also do my small business accounts in it, which means that I can't just buy the US version as the tax rules differ.

    Does anyone know of an accounts package, both for home and business, that works according to UK tax rules?

    Cheers,
    Ian

    1. Re:Slightly OT: UK accounts packages for Mac? by idfrsr · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I just realized that this might be a good time ask if there is anyone putting together an open-source tax software package.

      If one was properly designed, to be modular, it could be used world wide provided your locale's tax rule module was written. I would love to access to a high quality bit of tax software*...

      * DISCLAIMER: Admittedly, it would have to carry lots of disclaimers about using it at your own risk and what not, but it is just an idea...

      --
      "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away" -Tom Waits
    2. Re:Slightly OT: UK accounts packages for Mac? by Andy_R · · Score: 2

      My company uses Virtual PC to solve this, we just run our old PC accounting software on the Mac.

      VPC is perfect for this situation, as it's not a particularly speed critical task, and the cost of buying VPC to run your existing software is probably less than the cost of buying a Mac alternative (if one existed) would be, and that is without factoring in the cost of learning a new app.

      --
      A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
    3. Re:Slightly OT: UK accounts packages for Mac? by caliph · · Score: 1

      Ritz accounts : www.ritzaccounts.co.uk Supports both stering and euro (good for both the UK and Ireland, if necessary).

  26. Anyone can get a job at thinksecret by itrends · · Score: 1

    look ma no hands http://www.lowendmac.com/lite/01/0730.html

  27. No matter what by feldsteins · · Score: 5, Interesting

    No matter what Apple finally announces, at this or any other keynote, about half the comments in these forums will be filled with "no big deal" or "The Man is trying to crush us!" or some other wacky thing. Sometimes intelligent conversation about the Macintosh platform is hard to come by on slashdot. And that's a shame.

    I'm thinking back to when the iPod was branded "lame" on the front page of slashdot within minutes of it being announced. Of course it if had run Linux it would have been heralded as an indredible technological breakthrough and an "industry leading" product and a shining example of why open source software is better than other kinds.

    --
    You like your Macintosh better than me, don't you Dave? Dave? Can you hear me Dave?
    1. Re:No matter what by inkfox · · Score: 2
      No matter what Apple finally announces, at this or any other keynote, about half the comments in these forums will be filled with "no big deal" or "The Man is trying to crush us!" or some other wacky thing. Sometimes intelligent conversation about the Macintosh platform is hard to come by on slashdot. And that's a shame.
      Okay, I'll bite. Maybe I'm feeding a troll, but --

      Are you saying that "intelligent must equal enthusiastic" where Mac announcements are concerned? Or since you explicitly mention keynotes, do you only mean that anyone not excited by getting another stevejob is beneath contempt?

      --
      Says the RIAA: When you EQ, you're stealing bass!
    2. Re:No matter what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "...intelligent conversation...is hard to come by on slashdot..."

      perfectly worded.

    3. Re:No matter what by feldsteins · · Score: 2

      Are you saying that "intelligent must equal enthusiastic" where Mac announcements are concerned?

      Certainly not. But in the case of the iPod I suspect hardly a thought was given to the merits of the product before dismissing it. And many of the subsequent comments to that post were of similar tone. Yet - and this is the important part - the iPod has proven to be a big seller and one of the most relevant and discussed products even here in these forums.

      Maybe I'm just feeling the rub more than usual today. The rub one feels when using a platform made by a company whos products and services - no matter how cool - can never rise above the 50% mark on the meritorious-o-meter because they're not open source or because they belong to that mysterious "other" platform which the majority of members here do not use.

      getting another stevejob

      Or maybe I can just let that comment say it all.

      --
      You like your Macintosh better than me, don't you Dave? Dave? Can you hear me Dave?
    4. Re:No matter what by drsmithy · · Score: 1, Insightful
      Sometimes intelligent conversation about the Macintosh platform is hard to come by on slashdot.

      Intelligent conversation about the Mac is hard to come across anywhere. I mean, if it's not people asserting a 1Ghz G4 is much faster than a 2GHz P4 at everything, it's review sites benchmarking by the number of bounces an icon makes in the Dock as the program loads.

    5. Re:No matter what by feldsteins · · Score: 2

      Actually, that's an excellent point. It's almost as disheartening to see a Mac-oriented site analyze Apple products and services only to come up with an overly rosy view of their worth as it is to see a non-Mac-oriented site not analyze the products/services and surmize that the products are worthless.

      --
      You like your Macintosh better than me, don't you Dave? Dave? Can you hear me Dave?
    6. Re:No matter what by BitGeek · · Score: 2



      Feldsteins-- you're right on.

      Lets not forget that Apple's product IS open sourced, and in fact, is the most successful open source OS out there in terms of number of installations (maybe not yet, but certainly will be in a couple years, as Linux cannot match Apples volume.)

      That's the real reason slashdotters bash apple-- that and the fact that pre-linux they were stuck with windows and were jealous of the superior usabiltiy and cost benefit of Apple products.

      Its the only thing I can think of. Certainly a lot of the comments don't make sense.

      Hell, they all assuemd that teh ipod had a 2.5 inch drive, and ignored the superior battery technology, etc.

      This prejudice is annoying, but I think jealousy is its root.

      --
      Yeah, and you guys panned the ipod too: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23/ 1816257
    7. Re:No matter what by BitGeek · · Score: 2, Informative


      A 1GHz G4 IS faster than a 2GHz P4.

      Unfortunately, most people don't understand pipelines, branch prediction, what having a 386 co-processor for compatibility on there implies, what Risc processing really does, and that floating point is a major part of CPU intensive applications leaves us with people doing what you're doing...

      claiming that anything with a higher clockrate is faster.

      Never mine that a G4 can do 2-6 times as much work in a given clock cycle.

      --
      Yeah, and you guys panned the ipod too: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23/ 1816257
    8. Re:No matter what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      During the Reagan administration, Income Tax revenue doubled from $500B to $1T due to tax cuts. ... but somehow, the national debt still ballooned.

    9. Re:No matter what by rjung2k · · Score: 1

      The only Mac-oriented forum I've come across that is neither reflexively Mac-bashing nor reflexively Steve-gushing is the Mac openforum over at Ars Technica.

      Sure, you'll get rumor speculation and general Q&A, but if you want detailed analysis of XServe benchmarks versus Sun servers, they'll have it, too. Certainly spanks the typical MacAddict or MacNN nonsense.

      --

      --R.J.
      Electric-Escape.net

    10. Re:No matter what by drsmithy · · Score: 1
      A 1GHz G4 IS faster than a 2GHz P4.

      Bollocks.
      There are no benchmarks anywhere that will show a 1GHz G4 is faster than a 2Ghz P4 in general usage. Why ? Because it isn't.
      There are quite a few benchmarks showing the for a few specific cases in certain circumstances, there a some things a 1GHz G4 is faster at. This is all well and good if the only things you do are those operations, but they tend to be of rather limited scope.

      Unfortunately, most people don't understand pipelines, branch prediction, [...]

      Including you, evidently. Go and do some reading, particularly on Ars. Once you've finished reading, go and find a range of benchmarks - the best theory in the world is useless if it doesn't reflect reality.

      [...]claiming that anything with a higher clockrate is faster.

      Except I didn't. Otherwise I would have said a 1.4 Ghz P4 (which is slightly slower than a 1GHz G4 in general). A 1GHz G4 lines up somewhere between a 1.4 and 1.6Ghz P4 in the general case.
      Of course, even the people who are that silly pale into insignificance compared to those who seem to think that processors should only be compared at equivalent clock speeds, even if one processor is available at the same time for a lower cost at twice the clock speed. What kind of idiocy is that ? All that matters at the end of the day is performance - it doesn't matter when one machine gets it performaqnce via architectural smarts or high clock speeds.
      Top end G4s are slower at nearly everything than top end x86 chips. Deal with it. The Mac's advantage is not speed. I certainly didn't buy my TiBook because of its performance (because its performance isn't very good), I bought it because it runs OS X.

    11. Re:No matter what by BitGeek · · Score: 2

      There are no benchmarks anywhere that will show a 1GHz G4 is faster than a 2Ghz P4 in general usage.

      This is bald faced lie.

      --
      Yeah, and you guys panned the ipod too: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23/ 1816257
    12. Re:No matter what by BitGeek · · Score: 2

      Yes, because spending went up even faster.

      Proof that republicans, just like democrats, are irresponsible with money and cannot be trusted.

      --
      Yeah, and you guys panned the ipod too: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23/ 1816257
    13. Re:No matter what by drsmithy · · Score: 1

      So post some.

  28. Why publicise this? by FyRE666 · · Score: 0, Troll

    If Apple are giving their grassroots supporters a hard time, effectively banishing them from the expo, shouldn't all the big news sites show some solidarity and not publish any news about Apple or rumours about the show?

    Apple always bite the hand that feeds which is why most people run Windows now.

    (I own an Apple, BTW - this isn't a troll)

    --
    Code, Hardware, stuff like that.
    1. Re:Why publicise this? by Vodak · · Score: 2

      The "Hard-core" Apple users are going to stay no matter what, Apple doesn't need to worry about making them happy at this moment. They need to focus on getting the casual computer user to pick up their systems so they can gain some ground on Microsoft and Intel.

    2. Re:Why publicise this? by JudgeFurious · · Score: 1

      You know what, I think that's slightly backwards. If Apple is giving it's grassroots supporters a hard time and banishing them from the expo then I think it would be better for all the big news sites to show their solidarity by running their own stories speculating on what will be unveiled.

      Everyone should jump into the same boat in this instance and toss down the gauntlet effectively saying "Go ahead, banish all of us".

      Like you I own an Apple and I personally don't think there is a machine out there that can touch it but I sometimes think that their approach to things does them more damage than anyone else ever could. It's frustrating watching them do things like this because the last thing in the world they need to be doing is alienating more people.

      I do think that many of these Mac rumor sites go a little farther than necessary and probably contribute to the slight let down a lot of us feel following most big Apple events like this. It goes with the territory though and Apple should have learned by now that it's unavoidable. People have a right and an inclination to speculate wildly.

      --
      Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
  29. eMac by jonadab · · Score: 1

    Perhaps they are thinking of the new eMac. That's not
    a flat _panel_ per se (as in LCD), but it's 17", and
    it's flat (as in, flat surface, no curvature of the
    screen), and while they've changed the inane prefix
    letter, it _looks_ just like one of the old iMacs.

    Although I'm fairly sure a flat-panel-on-a-stick iMac
    with a larger panel would sell. 15" is so _small_.
    Almost all the new systems are touting at least 16"
    viewable these days.

    --
    Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
    1. Re:eMac by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most companies "base model" monitor is 15 inches. That of course is the case size. Ive seen viewable range from 13-14 inches. Those are CRT though, I dont know about LCDS.

    2. Re:eMac by FueledByRamen · · Score: 1

      An LCD monitor is all viewable area. None is held behind by the bezel, or rendered useless by edge-geometry effects like on a CRT. You pay for 15" diagonal on a LCD, you get exactly that - no less.

      --
      Every cloud has a silver lining (except for the mushroom shaped ones, which have a lining of Iridium & Strontium 90)
  30. ThinkSecret Credibility by usr122122121 · · Score: 3, Informative
    I recently emailed the guy in charge of ThinkSecret to ask him if he thought that it spoke any to his credibility the fact that the "System Preferences Screenshot" has "firewall" misspelled as "firewal"... and I encouraged him to place the "l" there in order to seem more credible...

    He replied that it was Apple's mistake, and that they need to fix it, not him.

    He left that image alone, but released a Newer One that is in almost a completely different style- look at the tabs... and "firewal" is now fixed.

    I will be SO MAD if apple does the .Mac sh*t. Since when do we copy Microsoft?

    Think Secret's integrity as a rumors site is existent only in the fact that it is one of the few rumors sites remaining. This, in turn, is because I believe that Apple is playing them: feeding them doctored images, blatantly false rumors, and such. That would explain why they haven't gotten in trouble yet with apple... and would also explain why half the stuff there seems ludicrous!

    I do have to confess, though, I do read Think Secret regularly. Definitely not for an authoritative source of information, but just for fun. Every thing they say should be taken with a grain of salt. No, change that, the whole salt shaker.

    uh-oh, i'm 2 cents poorer

    --

    -braxton
    1. Re:ThinkSecret Credibility by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since when do we copy Microsoft?

      What do you mean, "we", kemo sabe?

    2. Re:ThinkSecret Credibility by flamingnight · · Score: 0

      He left that image [thinksecret.com] alone, but released a Newer One [thinksecret.com] that is in almost a completely different style- look at the tabs... and "

      Wait a second. Hey man, that's just different appearance themes. The blue is, well, "blue" and the other is "graphite". (Assuming you're on OS X) Launch System Preferences, then go to the General pane and it's the top popup menu.
      of course, if you *really* wanna be cool, check out Duality (search on VersionTracker for it).

    3. Re:ThinkSecret Credibility by usr122122121 · · Score: 1
      i know about themes :-)

      What I was saying, however, is that the "newer one" looks like the Graphite Theme in 10.1.5, and the "older one" looks like the Blue Theme in "10.2"

      --

      -braxton
    4. Re:ThinkSecret Credibility by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't really understand why something in a development build is being taken as a final product. Maybe the developers were just having fun and put .mac in there as a joke.

      Who knows.

    5. Re:ThinkSecret Credibility by gerardrj · · Score: 2
      Perhaps you should look at ".mac" as a neat thing. Perhaps Apple is starting their own TLD of .mac. Then you would have an address of something like: me@mac

      You could also visit the sites: g4.mac and i.mac.

      Only registered Macintosh owners could register names and email addresses in this domain. And unlike Microsoft who took an existing TLD and made it a product name (.net) Mac would take a product and make it a TLD. Certainly a first.

      I mean, as long as we're starting rumours here, this seems like a neat one.

      --
      Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
    6. Re:ThinkSecret Credibility by usr122122121 · · Score: 1
      Perhaps you should look at ".mac" as a neat thing. Perhaps Apple is starting their own TLD of .mac.
      I envy your enthusiasm :-)

      I, however, am one of those people who feel as though the standard (original) TLDs should be the only ones... .biz sounds sleazy, .info sounds not trust worthy... don't get me started on the others!

      I suppose it would be alright to have a .mac TLD, but copying a Microsoft naming practice is generally not a great idea.

      I (think|hope) that one of the other explanations I have heard is correct: it's just the apple developers monkeying around to mess up the rumor sites [and show them who is boss?]. I hope

      --

      -braxton
    7. Re:ThinkSecret Credibility by tuxedobob · · Score: 1

      He left that image alone, but released a Newer One that is in almost a completely different style- look at the tabs... and "firewal" is now fixed.

      That may well be Apple's fault. That makes 3 versions of that window that I've seen now. The other can be found on page 63 of the August issue of Macworld. It's rather like the newer pic but includes port numbers as well.

  31. Press Pass Revoked? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2

    So, is Apple going to revoke C|Net's press pass?

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  32. Improved powermacs by Space+Coyote · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If anything, Apple would be stupid not to bring some of the technology from the Xserve into their desktops, like DDR RAM. If they leave new Power Macs off of the table completely I think we can be sure that they'll come shortly afterward, with the only reason for a delay being inventory backlog of current G4 units and supply problems with faster G4 chips.

    --
    ___
    Cogito cogito, ergo cogito sum.
  33. Rumer? Going to announe? (pssssstt) by utopiabound · · Score: 0, Troll

    okay first it's not an iMac its an eMac. It's already up on the site and forsale (starting at only $1099). It's been up there since at least yesterday.
    It's got some impressive specs (for the price) and it is a 17" flat pannel.

    1. Re:Rumer? Going to announe? (pssssstt) by TomHandy · · Score: 1
      The eMac isn't a flat panel system, it is a regular CRT.

      -Tom

    2. Re:Rumer? Going to announe? (pssssstt) by JudgeFurious · · Score: 1

      Reading and digesting the article is advised prior to commenting I believe. Then one would see that they are clearly talking about an iMac of the Flat Panel variety.

      --
      Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
    3. Re:Rumer? Going to announe? (pssssstt) by utopiabound · · Score: 1

      Well Shit; So it is.
      I guess I just got a little overexcited when I read about it yesturday.

      thnx

    4. Re:Rumer? Going to announe? (pssssstt) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And how was your trip to a cave on the dark side of the Moon?

      You must've been there, because the eMac has been in the retail channel for a month or more.

  34. Yawn. More "innovation" from Apple. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yet again, Steve Jobs, the King of Marketing, sells features instead of innovation.

    Uh, Steve, we hate to break it to you, but the Macs need some SERIOUS performance increases.

    --
    Spaz!

    Just because it's flamebait doesn't mean it's not true.

    1. Re:Yawn. More "innovation" from Apple. by BitGeek · · Score: 2


      Yeah, the fact that unless you spend more than $10,000 there are no computers as fast as the apple equivilents is NOT ENOUGH! WE need serious performance improvements.

      Yawn.

      --
      Yeah, and you guys panned the ipod too: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23/ 1816257
  35. Re:i like mac and all but.. by antirename · · Score: 1

    Built-in stuff is not good. Modular is good. Easy to replace. What do you do when the screen sprouting out of your cantaloupe-shaped computer dies?

  36. RumorTracker by EyesWideOpen · · Score: 3, Informative

    If you have a rumor fix, the site RumorTracker acts as a sort of rumor portal including rumors from seven different sites including MacOSRumors, ThinkSecret and SpyMac.

    --

    As with the sun's light
    My mom was magnificent
    Unquestionable
  37. 17" iMac! by mosch · · Score: 4, Funny
    Holy shit, I can't wait for the 17" flat-panel iMac!

    It's... slightly larger!!

  38. CNET hates Apple. by SPYvSPY · · Score: 2

    Search the news archives on CNET for Apple. You'll see their consistent mac hatred and propogation of anti-Apple FUD for yourself. Passing along rumors that they read on thinksecret.com is just another way that CNET declares its indifference, laziness and stupidity about Apple.

    1. Re:CNET hates Apple. by Evro · · Score: 1

      Well, I don't agree with that statement, but it's sort of unrelated to my point, which was, is CNET getting THEIR press pass revoked?

      --
      rooooar
    2. Re:CNET hates Apple. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can always tell a Mac zealot. He refers to the mainstream media sites as purveyors of 'mac hatred.'

      No, you're wrong. The mainstream sites like CNET are even handed.

      It's people like me who are Mac haters. I'm a hacker, and I STILL remember when that smarmy fucker Jobs made his snide 'Hacker Proof' comment about the Mac at a release-time interview at the National Press Club in 1984.

      Fuck Apple.

  39. What does Time Canada say? by ianscot · · Score: 0, Redundant
    Until our sources north of the border break the story, I'm not a believer.

    There's no reason to use rumor mill sites for anything but kicking around what you think a company should do. Yeah, the iWalk didn't exist, but it did make me think through exactly what sort of Newton the 21st century would want, at least.

    CNET's story says sales of existing 15" iMacs have "all but stalled." What does that mean? It it accurate? Does it mean the new iMacs are already off their "sweet spot" a little? Gee, I've had trouble finding an available one myself. Maybe that tossaway line was just the usual CNET Applebashing; this is a source that always, always slants against the company.

    Tedious as the rumors are, they at least open the "what should they release next?" question. (In this case there's no question, though: Since the new iMac stories way back, everyone's said the towers got leapfrogged in price for performance. Something needs to fill that niche, though "new, better towers" would be an uninspired replacement.)

    --
    "Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
    1. Re:What does Time Canada say? by BitGeek · · Score: 2


      iMacs have not stalled, that's bullhockey.

      I've been watching the Apple store and the iMac availiblity went down to immediate shipment, but has again increased to 1-2 days. So, they are selling them a little faster than they can make them.

      They may be selling fewer than they expected, but they're making even fewer then (Which means profitabiltiy should be good-- profits really hurt when you have to eat machines that won't sell.)

      --
      Yeah, and you guys panned the ipod too: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23/ 1816257
  40. Just a quick test by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    to see if it's a script moderating posts from this IP. Please ignore.

    ~~~

  41. Re:i like mac and all but.. by Alan+Partridge · · Score: 1

    Replace it? Some people like built-in, some like separate. Apple offers both. What was your point again?

    --
    That was classic intercourse!
  42. Re: Is ThinkSecret trolling? by interactive_civilian · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I dunno if they are trolling or not. Some carracho bandits out there are reporting that this is the latest builds of Jaguar, under the Internet tab in the System Preferences (where it is currently iTools).

    Some have speculated that this might be Apple competing w/ Microsoft as far as brand recognition (note these are pretty much the same people who said the same thing when Microsoft decided to call the latest Windows "XP" about a month before OS X 10.0.0 was released).

    However, for my own useless speculation, I don't think this will be a direct competitor to the .Net idea, but being a fairly nice set of network services (homepage, file storage, email, iCards, etc) might make some think that it is close enough.

    Just my humble opinion.

    --
    "Empathise with stupidity, and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." - Iain M. Banks
  43. Re:Macworlds are always ruined by high expectation by seanadams.com · · Score: 1

    The problem with the Mac web is that expectations run much higher than Apple can realistically deliver.

    And whose fault is that???? AAPL is always saying things to the effect of "we can't tell you what is is, but prepare to be blown away" and "it'll be way beyond anything the rumor sites are reporting". When the ipod was about to come out, the rumor sites didn't have the slightest clue what it was, but Jobs was already hyping the "broundbreaking" mystery product.

  44. Re:i like mac and all but.. by TechnoVooDooDaddy · · Score: 2

    I used to be a certified mac tech... you take it back to the dealer, and they charge you shizzy amounts of $$ to replace it... it will wait to fail until after the limited warranty is up..

  45. why need a TLD? by interactive_civilian · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Here's a potential idea. Right now iTools users accounts are located at:

    http://homepage.mac.com/username/

    Well...it could be really cool if Apple did something more like this:

    http://username.mac.com/

    Then all Apple users would have their very own .Mac(.com) domain name. Of course, there is absolutely no proof of this...just rampant speculation.

    But, isn't that what this entire story is about?

    --
    "Empathise with stupidity, and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." - Iain M. Banks
  46. Re:i like mac and all but.. by TheGreek · · Score: 2

    You call 1-800-APL-CARE and get it replaced for free within one year--three if you buy AppleCare.

  47. Re:Macworlds are always ruined by high expectation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    *Always* ruined by high expectations? You didn't see the iMac keynote, I take it.

  48. Where are dual CPU machines? by cb0y · · Score: 0, Insightful

    God damn ,why waste pumping out more expensive $800 CPUs at 1.2ghz (not that apple can)

    Why not just make the default TOWERS ALL dual cpu (since the OS can do it) and make them all 2x 900mhz at least.

    Surely 2 x $200 CPUs are better than 1 ultra expensive one.

    WHy are we stuck in this old 80s idealism of single cpus when we have prooved making dual cpu setups isnt expensive.

    1. Re:Where are dual CPU machines? by PythonOrRuby · · Score: 1

      For one, Apple does not make any processors at all. IBM and Motorola do. Secondly, I have a feeling Moto and IBM could.

      Single CPUs continue to dominate because in many applications, there is no need for them. Creative pros, hobbyists, and the mathematic/scientific communities are small markets. Most computers are still being used as glorified typewriters.

      Also, people prefer one big, fast CPU han multiple CPUs with less impressve specs on papers. It's easier for them to figure out, since there's no math involved..

  49. WTF by puppybane · · Score: 0, Troll

    WTF, Slashdot is a Mac Rumor site now? I've already removed the others from my bookmarks, and I was leading a happy life wherein I didn't have to read any baseless speculation. Shame /., shame!

  50. Apple's long-term trouble. by nobodyman · · Score: 2


    Apple is in somewhat of a tight spot in terms of the cpu. While on the wintel side you have four competing companies making x86 chips, Apple is reliant solely on Motorola for it's G4's. (sidenote: IBM was a source for G3's, but Motorola was unwilling to license the technology for the G4. Is this still the case?)

    Also, the average cpu speed for apple is growing at a fairly small rate. In 2 years, x86 cpu speeds are around 2.5 times faster (from 1ghz to 2.5 ghz). On the apple side, the top G4 speed in the past 2 years has gone from 766mhz to 1ghz. Apple's only resort to scale up processing power has been to release multiprocessor configurations.

    I see a tough road for Apple. If they stick with Motorola, they are subject to Motorola's utter inability to perform. They could jump to the x86 or Itanium, but they would face a migration nightmare (the osx migration was tough enough). Either option doesn't look good.

    1. Re:Apple's long-term trouble. by TomHandy · · Score: 1

      Are you seriously claiming that a 2.5 GHz x86 processor (Intel, AMD or whatever) is exactly 2.5 times "faster" than a 1 GHz PowerPC G4 chip?

    2. Re:Apple's long-term trouble. by nobodyman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Are you seriously claiming that a 2.5 GHz x86 processor (Intel, AMD or whatever) is exactly 2.5 times "faster" than a 1 GHz PowerPC G4 chip?

      Um, no. I'm re-reading my post to try to fathom where you came up to with that. Let me restate.

      Fastest x86 cpu 2 yrs ago: 1ghz
      Fastest x86 today: 2.5ghz
      Speed gain: 250 percent

      Fastest g4 2 years ago: 766mhz
      Fastest g4 today: 1ghz
      Speed gain: 30 percent

      What I'm saying is that either a) the G4 is reaching the end of it's lifecycle or b) Motorola sucks. I'm leaning towards b). Either way, Apple has a problem on their hands. They need to up the cpu speeds and especially the bus speeds (as another post intelligently pointed out).

    3. Re:Apple's long-term trouble. by Junta · · Score: 2

      No, he was saying clock speeds in Intel world have increased by 2.5x and therefore 2.5x faster than then, which is also erroneous, not as bad as comparing with PowerPC. Any comparison with P4 clock speeds needs to be thrown out the window immediately, since P4 clock speed is cheating to be inflated. G4s are clock for clock faster than any x86 solution out there, but they certainly no longer keep up with current x86 offerings.

      And for this they charge a high premium... Apple really needs to figure out how they are going to get out of this mess. They have some good hardware but the core piece of the platform is castrated (cpu/memory). I know their target market isn't performance freaks, but a system can get only so much slower before the niceties of the platform are outweighed by the perfomrance hit taken. I would love to get quality mac hardware with OSX running on it, but one glance at what I can get in the x86 world strongly dissuades me..

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    4. Re:Apple's long-term trouble. by PythonOrRuby · · Score: 1

      Well, I hate to break it to you, but just because we don't have processor's with ridiculously high clockspeeds, does not mean people are tearing their hair out on this side of the fence. OS X runs quite nicely even on 3+ year old iMacs with less than the reccomended memory. I know, I'm using one now.

      You see, the vast majority of Mac users are happy with their computers. I understand if that's a hard concept to grasp in the x86 world.

    5. Re:Apple's long-term trouble. by Junta · · Score: 2

      But looking at the market for a new system, you can either get a high-end pc, or a mac that can't match the performance. Being someone who can easily get BSD or Linux and grok it, the appeal of OSX is really insufficient to pursuade me to fork over *more* cash for less performance. Sure it's the Unix with the most supported desktop applications, but wine doesn't run on non-x86 systems so the tradeoff made is huge.... Would you pay twice or three times as much for a car that could only go 25 MPH than a car that is somewhat less sexy but can go as fast as you want?

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    6. Re:Apple's long-term trouble. by stripes · · Score: 2
      sidenote: IBM was a source for G3's, but Motorola was unwilling to license the technology for the G4. Is this still the case?

      Not exactly. IBM has G4 class CPUs. In fact the POWER4 is much much faster then any Moto CPU (and more costly), it will run PowerPC code (and POWER code, and PowerAS code, and...). What it won't do is AltiVec, which as far as the Apple world cares is what makes G4 a G4.

      Moto was always willing to licence the AltiVec stuff to IBM, but IBM was untilling to pay the fees for quite a while. Then somewhat quietly last year they licenced it. I was hoping htey had put it in the POWER4 and left it disabled, but that clearly didin't happen (and of corse I expect the POWER4 CPU brick itself to cost way more then any existing Mac, so Apple would have to be serious about going into the scientific and DB Unix markets...and IBM would have to decide getting money for the CPUs is worth possabably losing Unix box sales!).

      I see a tough road for Apple. If they stick with Motorola, they are subject to Motorola's utter inability to perform.

      That is a pretty tough road to hoe. Of corse Moto may have tricks up it's sleave. I think they are using a SOI process for the CPUs, and there is a recent embeded DRAM process for SOI that could let them put 32M of L2 cache on the same chip as the CPU...which could be a serious help for anything that is memory bandwidth bound...as long as OSX's scheduler has processor afinity.

      Or Moto could be the same bunch of incompetent boobs who had the 32 bit world on a platter with the 68000, then refused to make RISC chips for Sun, couldn't keep ahead of the x86, and eventually fell totally flat on it's face.

      I know which I want...but I know which is more likely. Bummer.

    7. Re:Apple's long-term trouble. by PythonOrRuby · · Score: 1

      See, the thing is, most people are only driving their cars through town anyway, where the speed limit is somewhere between 25 and 35MPH. For them, it's more important that their car work reliably, with a minimum of maintenance.

      The same applies to computers now.

      This of course, is not to say that I wouldn't appreciate faster Macs, and architectural improvements, but clockspeed is not everything, and it drives sales only because consumers are still largely ignorant of the availability of Apple machines.

    8. Re:Apple's long-term trouble. by nobodyman · · Score: 1
      ...which is also erroneous, not as bad as comparing with PowerPC. Any comparison with P4 clock speeds needs to be thrown out the window immediately, since P4 clock speed is cheating to be inflated.

      True. p3 and p4 are different architectures, and initially the p4 did not have the same "oomph" per cycle as the p3 (and hench, the p3 1ghz was faster than 1.4ghz p4 in certain benchmarks). However, I wouldn't call it "cheating". The p4 simply has more pipeline stages thus allowing it to operate at a higher clock rate (and there are reasons you would want to do this beyond marketing). Also, subtle advances in the p4 architecture (better branch prediction, higher cache sizes) have made the p4 more powerful per clock than it's initial incarnations.... so while comparing a 2.5ghz p4 to a 1.0ghz p3 is not exactly apples-to-apples, it's probably close enough for approximation.

    9. Re:Apple's long-term trouble. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agree 100% that Motorola is becoming a problem for Apple.
      Unfortunately, the IBM Power4 CPU isn't an alternative - the cost of a _single_ die is close to $10000, although you could hope for a scaled-down version.

      It's fairly easy e.g. for Intel to maintain a separate series (Banias) of low-power / low-performance CPUs for embedded systems when their main research is focused on high-performance stuff, but as we are seeing (Motorola) it is really difficult to have the high-performance CPUs as a spin-off business to embedded systems.
      Even Compaq gave up the Alpha development and choose to go with ia64 (before the HP merger), so in the long run Apple's best move is probably to make sure things are NOT hardcoded for altivec so they can move e.g. to AMD 64 bit CPUs.

    10. Re:Apple's long-term trouble. by vought · · Score: 2
      Not exactly. IBM has G4 class CPUs.

      IBM has, in fact produced AltiVec-enabled CPUs on a production sample basis.

  51. Business Reasoning by maggard · · Score: 3, Insightful
    How are we so certain that Macworld won't bring new towers? Use common sense!

    Er, howzabout economic sense?

    Apple is looking to bump their numbers.

    While Apple has weathered this downtown better then almost any other PC manufacturer they did just have a 5%+ layoff in Cupertino, their numbers are down, and things likely won't heat up until late August/September when back-to-school starts (traditionially a strong season for Apple.) So they're trying to push what appears to be their slowest moving boxes - the top-of-the-line ones with the lovely Apple LCD displays. This doesn't require any great insight but just a quick course in modern make-the-books-look-good-for-The-Street management.

    Will there be a 17" flat-panel iMac (remember they're still selling the old all-in-1-CRT iMac as well as the 17" eMac)? I hope so - I just advised a buddy to buy an eMac for the extra screen-space & faster processor for only $100 more. On the other hand that arm is a complicated device, there have been complaints about it, and scaling it up to 17" may be a jump Apple's not ready to make so soon.

    My own guess? With the announced new graphics pipeline through OpenGL and it's requirement of 32 MB of video RAM I'm betting we'll see that met across the board. But Towers? If they're ready in time; otherwise they may wait 'till late summer. It depends on what other marvels Steve has to trot out and if new towers would get much attention next to those (really they're more-of-the-same-but-faster.)

    --
    I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
    1. Re:Business Reasoning by usr122122121 · · Score: 1
      Anonymous Cowards filtered. If their words aren't worth so much as a nom de plume why should I value them any more?
      how ironic a comment when you look at the name of Think Secret's Owner: Nick de Plume :-)
      --

      -braxton
  52. they have released hardware during rebates before by johnpaul191 · · Score: 2

    that is 100% true, they have had a promotion run through the release of updated hardware. as confusing as it might turn out to be, i understand the rebate form has a checkbox for which system you bought (faster machine = bigger rebate). since only the current systems are on there, then new ones would not count unless they update the form. also remember the rebate is $x00 back on G4 tower and display. so if they release a new minitower, they can drop the price of the current ones and still run the promo. generally Apple sorta stays tot he same pricing structure. there are fluctuations depending on models and the cost of parts (like LCDs for the new iMacs).
    then again there is also no reason they can't offer a package deal if you buy a new (if there will be new ones next wednesday) G4 and a flat panel display. the economy is just not doing so well, so selling machines at a lower price is better than not selling any machines. at least this way it keeps things flowing.
    i'm not going to make predictions (i want to keep my badge, ha), but i don't see this being any indication to rule out new desktops.

  53. Cube - yes please! by iainl · · Score: 3, Interesting

    "The other rumor was the resurrection of the Cube, bundled with 17" flatscreens"

    I'll take one of those! Particularly if they make them in purple this time, to match my Nintendo Cube. A friend has one of the Apple Cubes from last time, and they are a thing of beauty and a joy to behold.

    --
    "I Know You Are But What Am I?"
  54. Towers? by t_allardyce · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    "No new Towers"
    "Macworld Expo in New York"

    Am i missing something here? Is this some kind of metaphore? :)

    --
    This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
  55. Official word from an Apple Sales Rep: by linuxbert · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "I see no inventory showing for all PowerMacs, and existing orders are not
    being filled. MacWorld is next week. 'Nuff said."

  56. Re:i like mac and all but.. by rattler14 · · Score: 1

    wow, they also sell 23" stand alone displays that support analog and digital input.

    but i'm sure you already new that

    -rick

    --
    my last sig was too controversial... now, a new and improved useless sig!
  57. Re:i like mac and all but.. by laserjet · · Score: 2

    No, you send it in and then wait a month and a half because their parts are all on backorder because everyone else seems to have the same problem that you did. Then you get your unit back after a month and a half only to find they didn't fix the problem.

    Sorry. I am just a little bitter over my apple care experience.

    I ended up fixing the problem myself so I wouldn't have to wait a totaql of 3 months for the damn part.

    --
    Moon Macrosystems. Sun's biggest competitor.
  58. Re:Open letter to slashdot editor dictators. by Hemos · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    Censured? E-mail URLs to me, and I'l look at them - but if you are talking about moderation, that's not censure, that's moderation. Your post still exists, and people who want to read it will.

    --
    Yeah, I'm that guy.
  59. Re:Macworlds are always ruined by high expectation by pi+radians · · Score: 2

    AAPL is always saying things to the effect of "we can't tell you what is is, but prepare to be blown away" and "it'll be way beyond anything the rumor sites are reporting"

    If by "always" you mean once, then you're right. Usually Apple stays quiet. They never say anything. Then last year when MWNY2001 was closing in people had HUGE expectations (read: G5) and when nothing was announced there was HUGE disapointment (read: booing Steve). 6 months later MYSF2002 was coming up, Apple planted rumors about iWalk, then hyped up the show to beat every rumor site. They released a G4 LCD-iMac. No one saw it coming (until Time Canada pbished their story on it).

    So Apple's strategy has been changing. No one knows what's going to happen in a week, but mark my words, Apple is on the ball will rumors.

    --

    sin(6cos(r)+5A)
  60. CPU is, literally, small apples. by 2nd+Post! · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The CPUs, at 800MHz or higher, is no big thing. Really.

    The current bus speeds, at 133MHz, is nearly 6-8 times slower than the the CPU. Some of that memory bandwidth is also being allocated the AGP, DMA transfers, firewire transfers, and just about anything else in the Apple mobo that uses the RAM. So the CPU is *starving* at the GHz level, especially at the dual CPU level.

    Being force to wait 10 cycles while waiting for memory is bad.

    On the PC side a CPU may be 2GHz now, but the memory is also quad pumped 133MHz as well. 2x the CPU but *4* times the memory bandwidth.

    So yes Apple needs faster CPUs, but they need faster memory even more.

    Let's hope for DDR interfaces come MWNY

    --

    GPL Deconstructed
    1. Re:CPU is, literally, small apples. by Arcturax · · Score: 2

      Given that they have put it into the XServe, I would highly expect it in any new towers which are released, whether at the show or later.

      (My guess is they will announce the towers and have them "available in August")

      --

      --Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop. - Dr. Walter Gibbs
  61. Zdnet and Cnet spilled the iMac beans last night by Arcturax · · Score: 3, Interesting

    http://news.com.com/2100-1040-942608.html
    http:// zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-942646.html

    Both of them stole Jobs thunder, I wonder if they will join the MacWorld blacklist now?

    Then again, if Jobs doesn't throw a wobbler and Apple did let them post this early, then that can only mean that Jobs is still sitting on something else that is very significant.

    --

    --Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop. - Dr. Walter Gibbs
  62. Re:i like mac and all but.. by TheGreek · · Score: 2

    I've sent my PowerBook G4 in twice (once right when I got it in February of 2001 because Airport wouldn't work, and again three months ago because the LCD backlight was dying). The first time, they replaced the motherboard and had it back to me almost immediately. The second time, they had parts backordered, but when I got it back, they replaced not only the LCD backlight, but the motherboard, trackpad, and part of the actual frame.

    I've found AppleCare to be worth every penny I paid for it.

  63. Cool new toys. by theolein · · Score: 2

    As I'm in the market for a new laptop, I've been doing some research and have come to the conclusion that the Market is indeed getting narrower for Apple. Since I really would prefer a Powerbook to a x86 machine and since this is /. , here is my wishlist:
    1.2 x G5 @ 1.5GHz and fat DDR in a Tower near you.
    2.New iBook with a G4 in it @ 800MHz
    3.New Powerbook with a G4 @ 1GHz
    4.iMac with 17" screen and 1GHz inside(tm)
    5.OSX 10.2
    6.Lots of money.

    1. Re:Cool new toys. by BitGeek · · Score: 2



      Remember, the Pentium has a much much bigger die than the PowerPC and thus draws a LOT more power (like 10 times).

      Thus when you run on battery power with a PC, the chip cuts its clock rate by 6... so that 2GHz pentium which is slower than a 800MHZ powerPC actually is running at 400MHz on battery power.

      So, when comparing a titanium to any PC laptop, there's no comparison-- the PCs are dramatically slower on battery power.

      --
      Yeah, and you guys panned the ipod too: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23/ 1816257
    2. Re:Cool new toys. by PythonOrRuby · · Score: 2, Informative

      iBooks aren't getting G4s, so don't hold your breath.

      The G3 is still scaling, and it uses less power, which means better battery life, which is Good Thing(tm) in a laptop.

  64. Re:Macworlds are always ruined by high expectation by st0rmshad0w · · Score: 2

    Well, now you've done it, no free passes for you.

  65. The rumor is part wrong! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    My employer is a system integrator for professionnal digital video editing solutions (www.Avid.com)

    Since there is no more G4's available anywhere in Canada whe asked hard question to our supplier and where told to be patient and that we would be selling our systems on G5 by Wednesday 17... This one aint a "maybe".

    But... dont tell anyone... its a secret!

    Thereza

    1. Re:The rumor is part wrong! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      learn to spell
      then someone may believe you

  66. Only real info I know of... by BitGeek · · Score: 2

    Is the quote in The Nation by one of the members of the Doors saying that Apple had called him recently wanting to license one of their songs for Apples new "Cube computer software".

    That's pretty much what he said-- so it sounds like he doesn't really know what the product is, so it could be a re-emergence of the cube, or it could be a software application that he somehow stuck the word "cube" to.

    As to Think Secret (And most all the rest of the rumor sites) they are useless-- often they just post wild speculation when a reasonable person could figure out what's likely to happen.

    For instance, since PowerMacs are long in the Tooth and iMacs are rather new, its more likely PowerMacs will be refreshed than iMacs.

    I would never say that this is what's going to happen-- cause it could be the reverse as the sites claim, but other than knowing about key components (17 inch displays are cheaper, G5 isn't ready yet) and apple's previous history and overall strategy, you can't say much other than the obvious implications of these bits of info.

    Apple really has closed the leaks and frankly, I'm much happier being surprised... not that the rumor sites were ever that accurate anyway.

    --
    Yeah, and you guys panned the ipod too: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23/ 1816257
  67. Re:i like mac and all but.. by nojayuk · · Score: 1
    Yeah, I had a look at the spec of the laughably-named Apple Cinema High Definition display a while back. Max resolution is 1920 x 1200 for a 23" diagonal. Apple Digital Bus connection only -- no SVGA or video inputs.

    IBM's T210 21" LCD does 2048 x 1536, with SVGA, DVI, S-video and RCA composite video, including picture-in-picture. That's about 700 kpixels more than the Apple display.

    IBM are also selling the T220, with a 3840 x 2400 maximum resolution for the same diagonal as the Apple "HD".

    I've noticed that Apple's LCD panels always seem to be a step behind the rest of the world in their pixel density -- pretty ordinary laptops are running 1600 x 1200 resolutions while the Apple top-of-the-range G4 PowerBooks are stuck with a paltry 1280 x 854 dots (but look at the diagonal size! 15.2"! Wow!) I suppose they've got to shave the spec somewhere.

  68. Bullshit rumor. Current Powermac G4 EOl'd by d0n+quix0te · · Score: 5, Informative

    The current crop of PMG4's have been EOL'd. Yup. Limited shelf life plus great discount packages can only mean one thing:

    New PowerMacs at MacWorld!!!
    ----
    http://www.cube-zone.com/ reports:
    The current PowerMac line has been EOled. ... the current PowerMac line (800 Mhz, 933 Mhz and dual 1 Ghz) has been EOled. Computers dealers cannot order those computers from Apple anymore...

    ---

    1. Re:Bullshit rumor. Current Powermac G4 EOl'd by Betaman · · Score: 1

      Uh, actually what really has happened is PM Towers are not selling and so every distributor has tons and every reseller has tons so there is no reason to let stores order more. There is a reason apple is giving you $500 off for buying a tower and a LCD 17in or higher, and it's not because apple doesn't like money. Apple has huge overstock of these comptuers.. I agree, no new Towers, especially because of the $500 off, it just started and 6 days is not enough to clear out the extras.

    2. Re:Bullshit rumor. Current Powermac G4 EOl'd by pi+radians · · Score: 2

      The same could be said about the G4 iMacs.

      --

      sin(6cos(r)+5A)
    3. Re:Bullshit rumor. Current Powermac G4 EOl'd by Betaman · · Score: 1

      The same could be said about the G4 iMacs.

      Yeah but there is no rebate program for iMacs, and iMacs are still out selling the tower machines.

  69. Holding my breath for Jaguar by shmert · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'll be thrilled if they release Jaguar (although I think it will be 10.5, not 10.2), mostly because of the improvements to Mail. Those #*&!%# spammers finally got ahold of my email address, and the new Mail app has excellent spam filtering. That, and the ability to specify a port# for your SMTP server, so I don't need to keep switching from mail.earthlink.net to mail.pacbell.net when I take my laptop from home to work, since both ISPs block traffic on those ports to any other server. Lots of other goodies in there, too.

    --
    You drank my drink, you drunk!
    1. Re:Holding my breath for Jaguar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's get this straight: Because a bundled e-mail applcation happens to add spam filtering, they will number the operating system 10.5 over 10.2?

    2. Re:Holding my breath for Jaguar by ChristTrekker · · Score: 1

      Me too. Though my reason is just so that I can have decent performance on my beige G3. I think a year+ to optimize the OS should be sufficient.

      --

      Constitutionally Correct

  70. Other apples. by saintlupus · · Score: 1

    New Apple computers, such as the Golden Delicious and Granny Smith will be unveiled.

    There was a product called "pippin" at one point - it was a crossover effort from Bandai and Apple in the mid-90s to start a game console.

    Think of the sort of shit games Bandai produces.

    Think of the gaming power of a Quadra.

    Now you see why nobody talks about it.

    --saint

  71. It's about time for a 17" iMac by Animats · · Score: 2
    After all, Apple has had a 17" monitor for a while, and they've had the iMac for a while. The only big question is whether the base had to be made heavier to keep the thing from falling over. And, of course, how much it will cost.

    The cheapest 17" flat panel you can get is now $499. Apple's 17" was at $999. There probably hasn't been enough progress since the iMac was launched to bring out an iMac at 17" at the same price point as the original iMac. (Although it's time for the version with the DVD-RW drive to get cheaper.)

    This should be a nice looking unit. The 15" iMac always looked like the screen was too small for the base.

    1. Re:It's about time for a 17" iMac by foniksonik · · Score: 2

      I heard that Apple has put several of million dollars into the increased yield of LCD manufacturing for large sizes.

      This was of course a natural response to the horrid problem of having huge lags in manufacturing during the release of the 15" iMacs.

      --
      A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
  72. The Quartz Extremem "requirments" myth by PythonOrRuby · · Score: 3, Informative

    Quartz Extreme will only require 16MB of Video RAM on an AGP 2x bus. All of Apple's current machines, minus the old iMac currently meet this. Yes, it would be nice to see all of them meet the reccomended 32MB, but as it is, they'll all be able to take advantage of hardware accelerated Quartz when 10.2 ships.

    1. Re:The Quartz Extremem "requirments" myth by maggard · · Score: 2
      Quartz Extreme will only require 16MB of Video RAM on an AGP 2x bus.

      Documented where?

      --
      I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
    2. Re:The Quartz Extremem "requirments" myth by PythonOrRuby · · Score: 2, Informative

      http://www.apple.com/macosx/newversion/

      See the note at the bottom, and be sure to take note of the "reccomended".

    3. Re:The Quartz Extremem "requirments" myth by maggard · · Score: 2
      You mean:
      *nVidia: GeForce2MX, GeForce3, GeForce4 Ti, GeForce4 or GeForce4MX. ATI: any AGP Radeon card. 32MB VRAM recommended for optimum performance. [my bolding]

      ?

      Right, I said "Required", Apple sez "Recommended". Whatever the case to take full advantage 32+ MB VRAM remains the number to look for.

      --
      I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
    4. Re:The Quartz Extremem "requirments" myth by 2nd+Post! · · Score: 2

      Right, but you said "With the announced new graphics pipeline through OpenGL and it's requirement of 32 MB of video RAM I'm betting we'll see that met across the board."

      What the Apple page says, bolding mine, "nVidia: GeForce2MX, GeForce3, GeForce4 Ti, GeForce4 or GeForce4MX. ATI: any AGP Radeon card. 32MB VRAM recommended for optimum performance."

      So what you mean is "With the announced new graphics pipeline through OpenGL and it's recommended 32 MB of video RAM I'm betting we'll see that met across the board."

      I'm not disagreeing, you won't see the full advantage of QE with only 16mb of VRAM, so I'm sure everything will get bumped up to 32mb, or more.

      --

      GPL Deconstructed
    5. Re:The Quartz Extremem "requirments" myth by PythonOrRuby · · Score: 1

      Those using 16MB graphics cards will see a noticeable improvement, though.

      Heck, I saw a pretty good improvement when 10.1.5 gave me use of my 6MB Rage card.

    6. Re:The Quartz Extremem "requirments" myth by maggard · · Score: 2
      Right. Whatever.

      --
      I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
  73. Re:i like mac and all but.. by flagstone · · Score: 1
    IBM T210 Hybrid Flat Panel Monitor: IBM Web Price $5929.00

    IBM T220 Announcement: June 27, 2001 list price $22000.00

    Apple Cinema HD Display: Apple Store Price $3499.00

    You might make an argument that the T210 is vaguely in the same market as the Apple Cinema, but the T220? Come on.

    --
    These people have looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined.
  74. Re:Macworlds are always ruined by high expectation by MoneyT · · Score: 2

    Now that you mention it, there's another reason for apple to want to keep the rumor sites away from press passes. Time canada released their story about the LCD imacs before the announcement was made at the expo. That understandably pissed off Apple. If they restrict those that have press pass acesss, they can help control those leaks.

    --
    T Money
    World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
  75. Re:Apple is dying! by BitGeek · · Score: 2

    " Fact: Apple is dead"

    Which explains why their market share keeps doubling.

    Did you notice that Netcraft shows more people run Apache than any other server combined? OS X runs Apache.

    Therefore, Apple has a monopoly on the market.

    Sheesh

    --
    Yeah, and you guys panned the ipod too: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23/ 1816257
  76. Sure Buddy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The only thing the 1GHz G4 is faster than the 2GHz P4 in, is the emptying-your-wallet benchmark.

  77. MSNBC will be denied press creds, too! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

    http://www.msnbc.com/news/778239.asp

    MSNBC has picked up the torch of Mac rumor mongering and is running for the gold, baby!

  78. You're on crack (was:No matter what) by nosferatu-man · · Score: 1, Redundant

    We'll let the numbers speak for themselves:

    SPEC CPU 2000

    P4 2.0 ghz : 745/743
    G4 1.0ghz : 306/187 (!)

    Oops. Of course clock speed is not a meaningful measure of performance across architectures. SPEC, the only really useful general purpose benchmark, is.

    Altivec is a wondrous thing, but the majority of work that your computer is going to do is not vectorizable, or requires DP floating point, in which case, Altivec buys you nothing. And the pathetic memory subsystem on the Macintosh really hurts when you /do/ get to use Altivec, as it can't feed the G4 fast enough.

    And trying to trot out the term "RISC" in this discussion is meaningless, and only highlights your ignorance (to say nothing of "386 co-processor".) Do yourself a favor and learn about CPU architectures before you post on the subject again, thanks.

    'jfb

    Links:

    http://www.heise.de/ct/english/02/05/182/ (G4 SPEC, unofficial)
    http://www.spec.org (P4 SPEC)

    --
    To spur "enterprise Linux," Big Bang, the distributed two-phase commit.
    1. Re:You're on crack (was:No matter what) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Troll?

    2. Re:You're on crack (was:No matter what) by BitGeek · · Score: 2

      I'm sick and tired of dealign with fucking idiots on this forum.

      SPEC is not a neutral performance benchmark. It is clearly biased as it does not measure floating point performance-- it essentially measures clock speed. We already know the clock speed is double you fucking idiot.

      And trying to trot out the term "RISC" in this discussion is meaningless,

      Yes because you don't care about architecture, you think the clock speed is what determines the speed.

      A processor with a simpler instruction set can execute more instructions in parallel during a clock cycle, dipshit.

      and only highlights your ignorance (to say nothing of "386 co-processor".)

      No, this highlights YOUR ignorance. There is a 386 co-processor on the pentium die you fucking moron. Otherwise the Pentium could enjoy RISC benefits, but its hobbled by its CISC past.

      Do yourself a favor and learn about CPU architectures before you post on the subject again, thanks.

      Unlike most of the suppsed "engineers" on Slashdot, I actually knwo what the fuck I'm taking about.

      Do you even know what RISC is? what it means?

      Bleeping idiot. And to think there are a thousand more where trolls like you come from. Goosestepping around telling each other lies.

      --
      Yeah, and you guys panned the ipod too: http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/10/23/ 1816257
    3. Re:You're on crack (was:No matter what) by nosferatu-man · · Score: 2

      I don't know why I bother.

      SPEC is not a neutral performance benchmark. It is clearly biased as it does not measure floating point performance-- it essentially measures clock speed.

      So a processor that's faster will do always better on SPEC? And it doesn't measure floating point performance? Pardon me, sparky? Maybe you'd better get on the horn with IBM:

      1.1ghz POWER4 708/1075 (int/FP)
      1.1ghz Pentium III 427/268 (int/FP)

      So what's that second number mean? Frist Post? Fried plantains? How about FLOATING POINT, you dullard? Is SPEC biased because it can be gamed by clever compiler writers? Or is it biased because it returns a result that makes you feel bad? This is an important point to realize, if anyone is still reading this: there's BitGeek, claiming that SPEC is a clockrate limited measure of integer performance, and then there're the SPEC members (no-name hype-driven marketing companies like IBM, Sun, Intel, Digital^WCom^H^H^HHP, Apple, &c) who view it as a reasonable, if imperfect, tool for measuring general microprocessor performance. Who do you believe?

      A processor with a simpler instruction set can execute more instructions in parallel during a clock cycle, dipshit.

      What in God's name does this mean? It's totally nonsensical, a simplification so gross as to be completely meaningless. What about the number of execution units? Will a single execution unit R3000 (about the perfect RISC microprocessor) outperform a multiple execution unit Motorola 68060 (about the perfect CISC processor)? What about the pipeline depth? And, more trenchantly, so what? What microprocessor performance is, is instructions issued and retired in a given unit of time: ie, work done.

      Do you even know what RISC is? what it means?

      RISC is tangential to this "discussion" because the P4 is a RISC processor (with a small number of consistently sized instructions), with an x86 decoder stage early in the instruction pipeline. In other words, it sees the putative benefits of RISC (increased performance) whilst maintaining backwards compatibility. Certainly there might be performance advantages to pulling the decoding stage and issuing 'native' P4 instructions -- the image that you seem to have, that the decoder is a separate 386 processor shrunk down and magically inserted into the die is strange and hilarious -- but what's the point? Intel gets plenty of performance from their current design, and a full reengineering of the entire project would likely not show performance benefits worth the cost. Even if your people from Planet Tinfoil-Hat view the x86 world's convincing performance superiority to be as conspiratorial myth, Steve "Reality At Arms-Length" Jobs understands it: it's why you'll never see a dollar for dollar performance comparison at a MW "bakeoff", let alone a straight-up top of the line Photoshop extravaganza.

      Someone who didn't know shit from fat meat about microprocessors might call the x86 decoding stage on the P4 a "coprocessor" (what might they say about the Athlon, one wonders, rhetorically.) They might also believe that SPEC is just another measure of clock speed and integer performance. They probably believe that "RISC" means "fast", and that the fastest G4 is faster than the fastest P4. They probably don't know the difference between SP and DP floating point, of course, to say nothing of Altivec's fairly significant advantages over SSE2.

      In other words, they'd be a typical Slashbot, who's attempt at iconoclasm means adherence to the Mac platform, rather than Linux. Which is basically idiocy, but then, it's certainly true that this is not a technical forum, and one can't expect any sort of reasonable technical discussion here.

      Best,
      'jfb

      --
      To spur "enterprise Linux," Big Bang, the distributed two-phase commit.
  79. This is the dumbest comment I've ever seen on /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Without doubt, this is the single dumbest comment I've ever seen. Yes, in all the long years of reading Slashdot, this one takes the cake as truly and utterly stupid.

  80. Major logical fallacy. by JoshWurzel · · Score: 1

    That assumes that OS X is the only way of running Apache.

    I'm no *NIX power user, but I'm guessing that isn't the case...otherwise no one would care that OS X runes Apache.

  81. What I think they'll show by jcsehak · · Score: 2

    The subject here seems to be rumors that are pulled out of your ass (see iTools --> .mac for evidence), so I consider this "on-topic."

    I think they'll show an iPod with a mic/line input. This will let you record direct from an analog source or even record stuff like conversations or your own music demos. Additionally, they're gonna implement their voice-recognition software so all you have to do is speak the name of the artist and album into the mic and the iPod will play it. I have a feeling the iPod software will now also include the ability to slow down or speed up a song by as much as +- 100%, in addition to changing the pitch by the same amount. This will effectively be the iPod's killer app for DJs and riff-studying guitar players everywhere.

    Well, at least I hope they show this.

    --

    c-hack.com |
    1. Re:What I think they'll show by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, because people learning guitars and DJs make up such a huge chunk of the market.

  82. Re:i like mac and all but.. by nojayuk · · Score: 1
    Those are all RRPs -- you can expect some serious discounting on the published prices.

    The T220 example was just to show that the "HD" screen is not, as some Apple pundits would like to believe, the largest LCD panel out there. Even the smaller T210 has stuff like S-VHS and SVGA connectors as well as the extra resolution (and I've seen reconditioned T210s sell for 2500 dollars retail).

    Still puzzled by the low pixel densities of Apple displays. If we get a 17" iMac I wonder what the max res will be -- current model desktop 17" LCDs are 1280 x 1024. Maybe the Apple will be 1152 x 864. We'll know soon enough.

  83. .mac or .Mac looks unlikely. by daviddennis · · Score: 2

    Someone in a Mac forum (I forgot which, sadly) played with the .MAC image in Photoshop and proved that it was simply another victim of the clone stamp. If you look at his blowups, the evidence is pretty clear.

    He also pointed out that the capitalization of .Mac (versus .mac) was inconsistent and that's something Steve would never tolerate. I tend to agree with him.

    This, of course, throws doubt on the credibility of Think Secret, which traditionally has been very accurate. I frankly don't believe the dotmac story. 17" iMacs would make me drool, but what we professional users really need is faster towers.

    Rumor sites come and go, but the timing of promotion expiration dates is almost always entirely accurate as an indicator of when new stuff is coming. This is understandable; you don't need promotional discounts to move the latest and greatest stuff.

    So we have a new clear screen promotion that runs until August 12th, and that means, with very little doubt, that we'll get new PowerMacs around August 13th. Nothing, ahem, clearer than that.

    D

  84. A Jaguar? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If this is anything like the Jaguar automobile that means it catch fire when starting the iMAC.

  85. Consider the source by inkswamp · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Mac rumor sites are a strange thing (are there such things for the Wintel world? I really don't know.) I've monitored them for some time and I can say that the only one with any track record to speak of is macosrumors.com. They have consistently outguessed nearly every Apple announcement that I've seen in the last two years, and they only publish stories when something is worth publishing. I suspect the person behind the site has some knowledge of journalistic methods and waits until he can independently verify news before reporting. The site really is shockingly accurate and I suspect the publisher has lots of contacts with beta-testers and Apple seed recipients willing to quietly break their NDAs.

    The only thing macosrumors didn't immediately predict was the flat-panel iMac, but they didn't have to. They mentioned it almost a year before its release (along with a couple schematics of its design) and then left the rumor alone.

    Rumor sites are fun but should not be trusted. Mainstream sites reporting off those rumors should not be trusted either. Think Secret in particular has no credibility, but they often publish tantalizing screen shots prior to releases so they are worth watching for that only.

    --Rick

    --
    --Rick "If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why."
    1. Re:Consider the source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Geezus. Rick what? Rick Meader, the brother of Ryan? And score 3? Is Pudge on fscking crack?

      Macosrumors.com is the most shitty site EVER in the mac world. Anyone who has been reading all these sites for more than two months knows that they just keep speculating with NO REAL information AT ALL. There are NO leaks in Cupertino. Beta tester contacts? Sources? Gimme a break.

      And then you have Think Secret, dumping screens of Shaguar than anyone with a Carracho client could get. Pathetic.

      Still, Meader is just the worst bozo with the most lousy writing style of them all (although DePlume is not better in that regard).

      Rumor sites == Bozonic Crap-o-la for Idiots

  86. Re:Apple Laptop Keyboards NOT OK for Unix Users by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I raped your momma. Your momma is NOT OK for Unix Users

  87. Re:i like mac and all but.. by rattler14 · · Score: 1

    Yeah, I had a look at the spec of the laughably-named Apple Cinema High Definition display a while back. Max resolution is 1920 x 1200 for a 23" diagonal. Apple Digital Bus connection only -- no SVGA or video inputs.

    -well, if a user sprung for a 23" display at a couple thousand dollars, he or she would probably have a digital bus connection as well

    IBM's T210 21" LCD does 2048 x 1536, with SVGA, DVI, S-video and RCA composite video, including picture-in-picture. That's about 700 kpixels more than the Apple display.

    -true, and this lovely monitor can be used on a mac as well. I know, IBM makes great monitors. But do they make all in one monitor/computer sets like the iMac?

    IBM are also selling the T220, with a 3840 x 2400 maximum resolution for the same diagonal as the Apple "HD".

    -this is like comparing a BMW 5 series to a Formula 1 race car. Sure the race car is faster, but is in a price category way way above the BMW... and once again, hook it up to a G4 tower if you'd like

    I've noticed that Apple's LCD panels always seem to be a step behind the rest of the world in their pixel density -- pretty ordinary laptops are running 1600 x 1200 resolutions while the Apple top-of-the-range G4 PowerBooks are stuck with a paltry 1280 x 854 dots (but look at the diagonal size! 15.2"! Wow!) I suppose they've got to shave the spec somewhere.

    -ugh, i don't want 1600x1200 on my powerbook. Why? Cause I can't read a damn thing at that resolution. Oh sure, you could just scale down to a lower resolution, but then you get all of those weird non-integer multiple effects which makes text look like shit. I have a 19" desktop monitor (17.9 viewable) that looks alright at 1600x1200, but a 15 viewable screen just doesn't need such resolution. I believe most users would scale it down anyway, and unless they want to go at 800x600 (each half of the max), it will look like shit.

    I think all of your points are valid, but the are only part of the whole picture

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    my last sig was too controversial... now, a new and improved useless sig!
  88. Jobs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From the article: Unfortunately, Jobs can't be David Copperfield at every Expo, and he won't be this time around either.

    Uh ... I'd say he's already too close to comfort. Change your turtleneck, Steve.

  89. Re:Macworlds are always ruined by high expectation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Dear Apple,

    I ama homosexual. I boughtan Apple computer because of its well earned reputation for being "the" gay computer. Since I have become an Apple owner, I have been exposed to a whole new world of gay friends. It is really a pleasure to meet and compute with other homos such as myself. I plan on using my new Apple computer as a way to entice and recruit young schoolboys into the homosexual lifestyle; it would be so helpful if you could produce more software which would appeal to young boys. Thanks in advance.

    with much gayness,

    Father Randy O'Day, S.J.

  90. Steve's smoking some great ganja... by RebornData · · Score: 1

    Assuming this is true...

    Who in their right mind would by a machine with an *integrated* 17" LCD display? I'm sorry, but in my experience monitors and displays routinely have a longer useful life than the machines they come with. I'm still productively using a 17" trinitron monitor I bought with a new PII 350 a few years ago. Having such a relatively expensive monitor incorporated into a machine that can't be upgraded at all seems like a dumb idea.

    On the other hand, I'm sure Apple has done their research and perhaps their target market isn't concerned about such things. But then again, look at how "well" the cube sold...

    1. Re:Steve's smoking some great ganja... by Juanvaldes · · Score: 1

      I think your right that the target market does not care. These are the people who in a few years will just buy a whole new system, not just a new tower, or replace their slowest component (note this does not work well with the the new iMac's) when needed.

  91. MPEG-4 deal for MWNY? by OrsonBallard · · Score: 1

    http://www.m4if.org/ (MPEG-4 Industry Forum) has a note about a 'Marketing Conference Call" scheduled for July 17. A MPEG-4 Board conference call is scheduled for the 18th. Not to fuel speculation (yeah right) but could Steve Jobs and company finally announce that they have reached a deal with the MPEG-4 group - and Apple will officially release QuickTime 6 at MWNY? Is the MPEG-4 conference call in any way related to big news being announced that day from Apple? I'm surprised that the lack of a deal is getting so little attention, especially since Apple has already released the (time-crippled) QT-6 beta on to the market. Are they expecting us to "downgrade" back to QT5 when the beta expires? Or have they made a royalty deal on behalf of the Pro users? YMMV - It's idle speculation but the dates are curious and the deal needs to happen some time.

  92. Please Goddess let them release some new models by soupforare · · Score: 1

    I can't stand how expensive the older powermacs and beige G3s are.
    I need to learn OSX so I can admin it, but I can't afford a box that *runs* the damn thing
    stupid artificial worth :(

    --
    --- Do you believe in the day?
    1. Re:Please Goddess let them release some new models by foniksonik · · Score: 2

      Sounds like you need to find a nice 400 or 500 mhz G4 and upgrade it to either a dual 500 mhz G4 setup via Sonnet Technologies or a brand spankin' new upgrade option of a 800mhz or 1ghz G4 via Power Logix

      There are also a few over-clockable Sahara G3 upgrades available now. Look around a little in the classifieds or on the sites mentioned or in general ie: google.

      Remember also that with 10.2 OS X will be a viable OS on many older systems as long as you can add a 32 MB AGP graphics card to the mix (Quartz Extreme promises to increase performance across-the-board by at least a 150% if not more). That is not to mention the fact that it is supposed to be compiled with GCC 3.x which brings it's own performance boosts as well.

      --
      A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
    2. Re:Please Goddess let them release some new models by soupforare · · Score: 1

      What I need is a Mac that isn't insanely overpriced. That's why I've been looking around for 8600/9600 and beige G3s.
      On ebay they're getting cheaper, slowly, and through 'reputable' used/refurb dealers they're still painfully expensive. I'm avoiding B&Ws and iMacs like the plague, if that was your next suggestion.

      --
      --- Do you believe in the day?
  93. iPod is groundbreaking by wbajzek · · Score: 1

    it was the first mp3 player that didn't suck... Not to mention firewire, capacity, and size :)

  94. Bad math by gerardrj · · Score: 2

    The clock-speed gain for x86 is 150%. The current speed is 250% of the original, but an increase of 1.5Ghz is only a 150% increase from 1Ghz. Oddly, you correctly calculated the G4's speed increase as 30% (30.5% actually)

    --
    Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
  95. yes it's how they live... by netsrek · · Score: 1

    but it's also how they die..

    A while ago they definitely overshot the mark with the hype factor...

    The problem is that they have had amazing "just one more thing" releases in the past at expos. It just seems like there's nothing up their sleeve at the moment....

    Ah well. Hopefully 10.2 (and not 10.5 like some wack fools are claiming) will be out sooner, as it's definitely worth it, especially on the server release....

    --

    i don't read slashdot anymore.
  96. 17" iMacs by forsakenplaya · · Score: 1

    Personally as a performance freak myself, I clearly don't understand why Apple is going for asthetics, instead of rising the performance bar. I just feel it's not gonna turn out good for them!

  97. Next generation processors? by g4dget · · Score: 2

    When is Apple going to come out with machines based on new processors? The benchmarks are beginning to look pretty mediocre (and that seems to agree with the real performance I see as well).