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Mac OS X 10.2.2 Update Available

Fork420 writes "Apple has released the 10.2.2 update. According to Apple: The 10.2.2 Update delivers enhanced functionality and improved reliability for the following applications and technologies: Address Book, iChat, IP Firewall, Mail, Print Center, Rendezvous, Sherlock and Windows file service discovery. The update also includes the updated services previously delivered in Security Update 2002-09-20. For detailed information on this Update, please visit http://www.info.apple.com/kbnum/n107140 (when this story was posted, this link was not yet working) Enjoy..."

441 comments

  1. Journaling File System by RobRancho · · Score: 5, Informative

    is included too! :)

    1. Re:Journaling File System by xenocyst · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But, "Provides a foundation for the journalling filesystem (JFS), which may currently be enabled via Disk Utility on Mac OS X Server systems." doesn't exactly seem like support for JFS, more of an experimental thing? It does specfically say "OS X Server", and "foundation" after all. =p

      --
      And, no, I should not have used the goddamn Preview mode first.
    2. Re:Journaling File System by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Judging by the few girlfriends you Linux freaks manage to have, I'd say "pretty enough" by your standards is fairly low.

      No, that doesn't make sense. If linux freaks had lots of girlfriends, then their standards for "pretty enough" would be low.

    3. Re:Journaling File System by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, it looks like newfs_hfs has a new -j flag, so this might not be restricted to MacOS X Server...

    4. Re:Journaling File System by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      And the Mac users get to pay for it, too...
      Umm, the update is free...
    5. Re:Journaling File System by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      10.0, 10.1, and 10.2 weren't.

  2. Sleep Issues by NitroAir · · Score: 1

    Hopefully it fixes sleep issues on certain Mac Hardware.

    1. Re:Sleep Issues by Palshife · · Score: 1

      Out of curiosity, which hardware were you having issues on, and what were the nature of the problems?

      --
      Attention deficit disorder is a complicated issue, spanning several major... HEY LET'S GO RIDE BIKES!
    2. Re:Sleep Issues by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 3, Funny

      ``Hopefully it fixes sleep issues on certain Mac Hardware.''
      Yes, those TiBooks make really hard pillows! I like the built-in heater, though. It's just the right temperature, not like those Intel | AMD based notebooks...

      --
      Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
    3. Re:Sleep Issues by geek · · Score: 2

      The original dual processor power macs wont wake from sleep, and if they do they kernel panic immediately. It's been an issue for two years with no solution. MacOS 9 even does it on the systems so I'm guessing it's hardware related and not software which is why there is no "patch".

    4. Re:Sleep Issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The previous update, 10.2.1, fixed panic-on-wakeup problems that I was having on my Dual 1 GHz Quicksilver in 10.1.5.

    5. Re:Sleep Issues by my+evil+motives · · Score: 1

      What problems were you having specifically. My dual usb ibook would freeze after being put to sleep for more than 7 or 8 hours and on reboot would fail to recognize any bootable devices. After a few hours it would usually boot again. This was on 10.2 and 10.2.1. Apple tried to fix the problem a few times and finally agreed to replace the thing. Anyone else have this problem?

    6. Re:Sleep Issues by yomegaman · · Score: 1

      I used to have panics on wakeup sometimes on my iBook. I swapped out the 512M DIMM I'd added for an old 128M one and the problem went away. I then put the 512M one back in just to check and haven't had any problems for months. Must have been seated badly in the socket or something...

      --
      ...wearing a skin-tight topless leather jumpsuit, with cutaway buttocks and transparent crotch panel.
    7. Re:Sleep Issues by wtmcgee · · Score: 1

      i have issues with no sound on wake from sleep from time to time. i'm using a g4 17" iMac, and heard this issue was fixed, but every now and again.... the thing requires a reboot. other than software updates such as 10.2.2, thats the only time i have to reboot.

      --
      *** For a better tommorow, change your life today ***
    8. Re:Sleep Issues by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've had a mother of a problem with my tiBook 500Mhz not coming out of sleep since I went to 10.2.

      I'm trying to figure out whether this is an OS issue though as I put 10.2 on after I got the machine back from apple for service (it had gone in because it literally caught on fire while it was on my lap and had to have its entire board replace).

      Any other folks encounter this not waking from sleep issue?!?

    9. Re:Sleep Issues by george399 · · Score: 1
      So, does anyone else have sleep issues with SCSI hardware?

      I have the SCSI card straight from Apple in my 933/QS Mac. It used to deep-sleep (no fan etc.) before Jaguar. Post Jaguar, it still spins the fans. I use a Nikon and a UMAX scanner with this card. All used to be well.

      --
      Patience is a virtue, but I don't have the time - TH
    10. Re:Sleep Issues by sebi · · Score: 2

      I used to have the same problem on a single proc G4. The culprit was a dodgy memory stick. Once I removed that sleeping and waking worked like a charm. Just go through your memory sticks one at a time and you should be happy in no time. Good luck.

    11. Re:Sleep Issues by bitweever · · Score: 1

      Is your sig supposed to read '31337'? If so, you need to flip the last bit to a 1. Right now it means '3l336', which is OK if the message you are trying to convey is that you are a bit short of being 'l33t.

    12. Re:Sleep Issues by sebi · · Score: 1

      I am at least a bit short of being l33t. Hence 31336. Which in turn is stolen from an old geeks ins space episode...

  3. ip firewall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    IP Firewall,
    And we now, get 100 calls a day at the ITS about students complaining on why they can't chat or share their files, because the ports are firewalled!

    Hope its not on by default. like in windoze xp.

    1. Re:ip firewall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yes. I like my system insecure by default, too.

    2. Re:ip firewall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the firewall is not on by default in windows xp. but you, on the other hand, are a worthless idiot. cya.

    3. Re:ip firewall by wirelessbuzzers · · Score: 2

      Read more carefully next time:

      The 10.2.2 Update delivers enhanced functionality and improved reliability for the following applications and technologies: Address Book, iChat, IP Firewall...

      The firewall was in there before. There's just bugfixes for it now.

      --
      I hereby place the above post in the public domain.
    4. Re:ip firewall by Call+Me+Black+Cloud · · Score: 2

      I have the tool for you! It's called a "faq"...

      Perhaps if you were doing your job instead of reading /. your students would have one.

      But you're right, it is far better to blame the OS then your failure to educate the students.

    5. Re:ip firewall by commodoresloat · · Score: 3, Interesting

      My thoughts exactly. But I think ipfw is turned off by default, however no network services are turned on by default so it's not that insecure. You can enable/disable all this stuff including the firewall from the System Preferences under sharing. And if you want to watch your system log (tail -f var/log/system.log) in the terminal you watch ipfw deny connections in the log (at least that's what I assume those entries mean). It's kind of frightening how many attempts there are to access a networked computer on any given day....

    6. Re:ip firewall by awtbfb · · Score: 1

      This is probably due to a novice user issue. For example, Joe decides he wants to use e-mail from his laptop through a software Airport base station running on the family's iMac. If he has a firewall running on the iMac, he won't be able to surf or send mail from the laptop. Rather than force him to figure out that he has to punch a hole in his firewall, they leave the firewall off by default.

  4. Reverse /. Effect? by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 5, Funny

    ``when this story was posted, this link was not yet working''
    So...10.2.2 features a reverse slashdot effect - the site only gets working when a certain threshold of connections per second is surpassed?

    --
    Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
    1. Re:Reverse /. Effect? by dan+the+person · · Score: 3, Funny

      Is it just me, or does everyone here suspect apple is paying OSDN to run OSX stories?

    2. Re:Reverse /. Effect? by guuyuk · · Score: 1

      Yes, this is known as the ./ effect. Of course, this only works from your current location...

      --
      We're sorry, the phone number you have reached is imaginary. Please rotate your phone 90 degrees and try your call again
  5. Journaling for Common Folk? by moofbong · · Score: 0, Flamebait
    According to the kbase doc, this update "Provides a foundation for the journalling filesystem (JFS), which may currently be enabled via Disk Utility on Mac OS X Server systems."

    Does this mean that us common folk without a $500 - $1000 hole in our pocket aren't going to be able to use the journalized fs? If so, I expect a hack to be out within the hour. ;)

    --

    ~moofbong

    If 'con' is the opposite of 'pro', what is the opposite of 'progress'?

    1. Re:Journaling for Common Folk? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what the fuck are you talking about?

    2. Re:Journaling for Common Folk? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      I expect a hack to be out within the hour.

      actually, about six hours ago

      but using the CLI can hardly be considered a hack...

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  6. Improved Find function? by ku+hand+luke · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "- Improves the Find function of the Finder by no longer finding items in invisible folders." I hope this doesn't break the runaround I use on my brother's iPod: In Jag, I open his iPod on the desktop and do a search in that finder window for any .mp3 and voila!, all files available for drag and drop. We'll see soon enough...

    --
    veni vidi vamos
    1. Re:Improved Find function? by xenocyst · · Score: 1

      sounds like a windows "feature" many of us know and love =p

      --
      And, no, I should not have used the goddamn Preview mode first.
    2. Re:Improved Find function? by MacGod · · Score: 1

      There are a ton of programs which can access the iPod's music directory. Just search on VersionTracker.com

      --
      "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one " -Albert Einstein
    3. Re:Improved Find function? by JHromadka · · Score: 5, Funny
      "- Improves the Find function of the Finder by no longer finding items in invisible folders."

      Whew! Now it is easier to to hide pr0n. :)

      --
      "The objective of securing the safety of Americans from crime and terror has been achieved." -- John Ashcroft
    4. Re:Improved Find function? by ku+hand+luke · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I know, it was just one of those sweet surprises in Jag that I can confirm is now gone (at least it won't find them on my iPod anymore). C'est la vie.

      --
      veni vidi vamos
    5. Re:Improved Find function? by Dynedain · · Score: 2

      crap....this is a bad thing

      For some reason the symlink to the OS9 desktop from the OSX desktop keeps randomly disapearing from my test machine here in the office (granted its an old POS to begin with....but we won't go into that)

      The only way I've been able to relocate it is through Sherlock which finds the original in a hidden folder. And I need it there because for some stupid reason OSX (or 9.2 for that matter) won't recognize the generic replacement IDE CDROM....and the manufacturer of my external SCSI CDRW has said they aren't going to release the OSX drivers.

      AARHRHRHHAAAGHGHHGH!!!!

      --
      I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
    6. Re:Improved Find function? by dhovis · · Score: 5, Informative
      Easy work around...

      • CMD-F in the finder to bring up the new find dialog box.
      • Select "Add Criteria -> visiblity"
      • Set visibility to "All"

      Voila, you can search invisible files. All this update does is set the default search to visible files only, as it should be.

      --

      --
      The internet is the greatest source of biased information in the history of mankind.

    7. Re:Improved Find function? by GnrcMan · · Score: 2

      You can use Tinker Tool (http://www.bresink.de/osx/TinkerTool2.html) to allow the finder to show all hidden files.

    8. Re:Improved Find function? by pi+radians · · Score: 2

      you can still find invisible files, but now you just have to tell the find app thats what you want to do.

      (just like find from os 8 and 9)

      --

      sin(6cos(r)+5A)
    9. Re:Improved Find function? by ZigMonty · · Score: 2

      Encrypted disk images are your friend.

    10. Re:Improved Find function? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That brings up an interesting question, is there anything even similar to a disk image on windows? (I want all the functionality, not just the slow zip hacks they threw on in xp)

    11. Re:Improved Find function? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      pgp encrypted disk
      belive some antivirus packages have it too, and perhaps some stenography suites.

    12. Re:Improved Find function? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Finder's Find dialog (File > Find) has a visiblity option you can add to your search criteria, so you are able to find visible or invisible files on any volume.

  7. One question by Jonny+Ringo · · Score: 1, Troll

    How much?

    KIDDING!

    1. Re:One question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      $99 + tax

  8. Hopefully they fix... by sporty · · Score: 5, Informative

    Hopefully they fixed the mail.app program. If you have only 1 account, and it's imap, you won't see folders on the account. You have to add another account, even a dummy one that has no mail, to see folders of the first imap account. Stupid mail.app proggie.. had me using that stupid enterage program.

    --

    -
    ping -f 255.255.255.255 # if only

    1. Re:Hopefully they fix... by JPRelph · · Score: 1

      Is that only with IMAP accounts that aren't .Mac accounts? I've set up mine, my fiancee's and my sister-in-law's Mail apps and they've been fine with only the single IMAP (.Mac) account.

    2. Re:Hopefully they fix... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, that just isn't true. I only have an IMAP account and it works fine.

    3. Re:Hopefully they fix... by Onnimikki · · Score: 1

      Nope, I've noticed the same thing. The mail app doesn't seem to find my other (IMAP) folders, either.

    4. Re:Hopefully they fix... by sporty · · Score: 2

      I can't speak for .mac. For my local imap account, it gets confused.

      --

      -
      ping -f 255.255.255.255 # if only

    5. Re:Hopefully they fix... by jacorrea · · Score: 0

      Same problem here. I just added another pop account and magically my imap folders appeared. Thanks for the info.

    6. Re:Hopefully they fix... by sporty · · Score: 3, Informative

      Here's your knowledge base link.


      http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=1 07 069

      --

      -
      ping -f 255.255.255.255 # if only

    7. Re:Hopefully they fix... by sporty · · Score: 2

      Well, now I wonder why setting a second mailbox, that isn't imap, fixes it? the dummy account i created doesn't even contact my courier-imap server. Hrmm...

      --

      -
      ping -f 255.255.255.255 # if only

    8. Re:Hopefully they fix... by Drakino · · Score: 3, Informative

      Nope, one IMAP account in Mail still results in the subfolders being inaccessable.

    9. Re:Hopefully they fix... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have about 18 folders in my IMAP account (only account) and they all show up. They were created by Entourage, Mail.app, and Mulberry.

    10. Re:Hopefully they fix... by margaret · · Score: 1

      No they did not fix it. Grrr. I just removed my dummy second account, and my IMAP mailboxes go away. I put it back, and the folders magically reappear. How hard can it possibly be for them to fix this simple but annoying little interface bug??

    11. Re:Hopefully they fix... by drive · · Score: 1

      i have a IMAP mail account on mail.app (1 account, not .mac) and i have no problems displaying folders (local and on server).

    12. Re:Hopefully they fix... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have one .mac account that works and another IMAP account that doesn't! How on earth did they manage to release it with this monster bug!?!?

  9. That's amazing by Palshife · · Score: 5, Funny

    when this story was posted, this link was not yet working

    Did the submitter just guess the url of the article? Damn, you gotta teach me how to do that.

    --
    Attention deficit disorder is a complicated issue, spanning several major... HEY LET'S GO RIDE BIKES!
    1. Re:That's amazing by whee · · Score: 1

      The url was included in the Software Update download note, but hadn't actually been enabled yet. I'd imagine the submitter got it from there.

    2. Re:That's amazing by LX.onesizebigger · · Score: 4, Funny

      Did the submitter just guess the url of the article? Damn, you gotta teach me how to do that.



      That can get you into trouble.

      --
      I for one welcome our new SCOviet Russian overlords to whom all our base are belong.
  10. 10.2.2 Changes by PatJensen · · Score: 5, Informative
    Here are the changes in 10.2.2. Enjoy! -Pat

    Digital Hub and Peripheral Device Enhancements

    • Improves playback of large media files and peripheral device file copying.
    • Resolves a rare situation in which an inadvertently-ejected CD cannot be remounted and applications accessing the disc cannot be quit.
    • Addresses an issue in which an enhanced CD's data and audio sessions do not appear as expected on the desktop when using iTunes and inserting the disc more than once.
    • Addresses a formatting issue that could occur when printing or previewing some TIFF documents.
    • Addresses an issue in which ColorSync settings for some third-party displays are not retained after restarting or logging out.
    • Addresses an issue when printing more than one copy of a file to a postscript printer from Adobe PhotoShop 7.0.
    • Improves compatibility with HP 4MV printers when printing over an Ethernet network.
    • Adds support for additional third-party disc burners, including: LaCie d2 48x24x48x, Sony CRX-820E, Toshiba SD-R2212 and SD-R1202, Pioneer DVR-105, and Yamaha CDW-F1 44x24x44x models.

    Networking and Modem Enhancements
    • SMB shared volumes may now be browsed by their user-assigned name.
    • Resolves an issue in which an incorrect "Change Password Failed" message may appear when when changing a Mac OS X 10.2 Server client's password via AFP.
    • Addresses an issue in which some internal Apple modems may fail to respond, displaying a "Could not open the communication device" message.
    • Addresses an issue in which no sound is produced by some internal Apple modems until several seconds after making a connection.
    • Resolves an issue in which some internal Apple modems fail to respond when connecting to the Internet.
    • Error and warning dialogs boxes are no longer displayed if you cancel the mounting of an iDisk from the authentication dialog box.
    • Addresses a startup issue that could occur if an LDAP server designated in Directory Access is not available.
    • Addresses a data loss issue which could occur when copying a file whose filename ends with "#02," or other hexadecimal number, via AFP.
    • Available disk space on an iDisk is updated more quickly after deleting files.
    • Addresses an issue in which an iDisk would appear with an inaccurate 1GB capacity and 1023 MB available.
    • Addresses some issues that could cause a "error -36" alert message when copying files to an iDisk.


    Address Book and Mail Enhancements
    • Resolves an issue in which Address Book could become unresponsive when using the Large Type menu and switching between applications.
    • Address Book can now better import groups from prior versions of Address Book.
    • Resolves a potential issue when transferring vcards from Address Book to a cellular phone via Bluetooth.
    • Improves Address Book compatibility with users that are already on an AIM Buddy List.
    • Allows address information to be imported when dragging vCards to Address Book which were created with Address Book from any version of Mac OS X 10.1.
    • Corrects Address Book address format for Australian entries.
    • Improves responsiveness when switching in and out of edit mode in the Address Book.
    • Address Book entries without a name included now appear in the All group list with the email address as the name, instead of "No Name".
    • Addresses the rare issue in which Mail may unexpectedly quit when replying to a message.
    • Improves the responsiveness of the Mail application's date column and thread highlighting feature.
    • Improves the reliability of transitioning a Mac OS X 10.1.5 Address Book.addressbook to an Address Book for Mac OS X 10.2 format.


    Application Enhancements
    • Improves compatibility for Microsoft PowerPoint presentations that use animations.
    • Addresses a potential Disk Copy volume imaging permissions issue that could affect non-Admin users.
    • Improves updating of applications installed with Mac OS X, updating them only if they have not been relocated or deleted.
    • Addresses a display issue that may occur when Command-clicking a URL in some third-party applications, including BBEdit and Mailsmith.
    • Addresses a situation in which the menu bar and Dock are not shown, after quitting a third-party game application, until the desktop is clicked.
    • Addresses an issue in which some PDF files created within Mac OS X do not open as expected with Adobe Acrobat Reader 5.
    • Reduces occurrences of "missing text" when browsing some web pages.
    • Improves compatibility for FAXstf when a fax is being sent while the computer is restarted, shut down, or entering sleep mode.


    Other Enhancements
    • Provides a foundation for the journalling filesystem (JFS), which may currently be enabled via Disk Utility on Mac OS X Server systems.
    • Improves security when using a read-write disk image volume in which "Ignore ownership on this volume" has been deselected.
    • Addresses an issue in which automatic Software Update notifications are turned off when upgrading from Mac OS X 10.1 to Mac OS X 10.2.
    • Addresses an issue in which, after upgrading to Mac OS X 10.2, an unexpected value in a user's com.apple.LaunchServices.plist file could prevent proper startup.
    • Addresses a potential kernel panic situation when using three video cards and more than 512 MB of RAM.
    • Addresses a potential issue in which an unauthorized user could log in as a deleted user.
    • Improves the Find function of the Finder by no longer finding items in invisible folders.
    • Reduces the time required for switching between Sherlock channels when using a low-bandwidth connection
    • Sherlock channels may now be saved as a file.
    • Allows automatic login to work as expected following an Archive and Install.
    • Improves time needed to wake some portable computers.
    • Addresses a potential loss of video when waking some PowerBooks from sleep after using DVD Player.
    • Addresses a potential issue in which the computer does not respond when quitting DVD Player on some portable computers.
    • Includes Apache version 1.3.27.
    • Addresses a potential security issue in which access to system daemons could be blocked when RFC-based services are enabled.
    1. Re:10.2.2 Changes by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 5, Funny
      Addresses a potential kernel panic situation when using three video cards and more than 512 MB of RAM.


      Gee ... I sure wish I was in a situation to run into that particular bug...

      --

      How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
    2. Re:10.2.2 Changes by taniwha · · Score: 2
      Adds support for additional third-party disc burners, including: LaCie d2 48x24x48x, Sony CRX-820E, Toshiba SD-R2212 and SD-R1202, Pioneer DVR-105, and Yamaha CDW-F1 44x24x44x models.

      Geee when are they going to get around to ours .... it seems that the USB based burners have all been orphaned pre 10.0 which is a real pain for my kids that have older iMacs without firewire ports

    3. Re:10.2.2 Changes by thinmac · · Score: 2

      Provides a foundation for the journalling filesystem (JFS), which may currently be enabled via Disk Utility on Mac OS X Server systems.

      Does this mean that I won't be able to use the journalling on my non OS X Server systems? Frankly, I'll have more use for it on my iBook, which runs standard OS X but also all sorts of beta and development software.

    4. Re:10.2.2 Changes by tupps · · Score: 2

      Supposedly accessible via the command line. See this post: http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=44754&th reshold=0&commentsort=3&tid=179&mode=thread&cid=46 42715

      --
      Go out and get sailing!
    5. Re:10.2.2 Changes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny
      • Corrects Address Book address format for Australian entries.

      Yes, it now properly addresses all male address book entries as "Bruce" and all female entries as "Sheila".

    6. Re:10.2.2 Changes by Have+Blue · · Score: 2

      Hey, I'm thanking my lucky stars I have only 512MB of RAM :P

      (One side effect of Macs making less progress than PCs is that it's feasible to collect and continue using every video card you've bought over the last 4 years...)

    7. Re:10.2.2 Changes by rworne · · Score: 1
      There's actually a lot of users that have two video cards. A nasty bug surfaced in memory allocation in 10.2 where if you run an NVidia AGP card and an ATI PCI video card, you get kernel panics on startup.

      On my machine (which worked just fine prior to 10.2), it involved downgrading to 1 GB of RAM, and the problem becomes more manageable (panics most of the time instead of all of the time).

      My fix was to open the case, remove the ATI card, power up, shut down, reinsert the card, power up and close up the case.

      Its a good thing I don't reboot too often.

      I ran the softwareupdate utility remotely from home, and the machine updated and rebooted without a problem, so I have my fingers crossed.

      --
      I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
    8. Re:10.2.2 Changes by singularity · · Score: 3, Informative

      Here I am with only *two* installed video cards and 1.25 gigs of RAM. I have another video card not in a machine, but all of my PCI slots are currently filled (second ethernet card, four port USB card, and SCSI card).

      So I suppose I cannot test this out to make sure it works.

      There was a problem with the 10.2.1 upgrade with multiple video cards of different make (nVidia and ATI, for example) and more than one gig of RAM. Sounds similar, but it sounds like the one that Apple fixed is somewhat different. Both of my cards are Radeons (7500 and 7000), so it never bothered me.

      As another poster said, one of the nice things about MacOS is the ease of using old video cards to drive second displays. I have had multiple combinations of cards and monitors and have never had a problem running them at the same time.

      --
      - (c) 2018 Hank Zimmerman
    9. Re:10.2.2 Changes by onosendai · · Score: 1

      resisting .. urge .. to .. mod .. as .. troll ..

      --
      <? include ('signature.inc'); ?>
    10. Re:10.2.2 Changes by ScottForbes · · Score: 5, Insightful
      • Improves updating of applications installed with Mac OS X, updating them only if they have not been relocated or deleted.

      Aaaaaarrrrrggghh! Apple replaces one Wrong Thing with another. Before 10.2.2, Apple's installer would blindly write files into /Applications/Mail.app/contents/resources without first checking to see whether Mail.app was still in the /Applications folder.

      Now Apple's installer looks for /Applications/Mail.app, and aborts the install if it isn't there. For the love of Tog, how hard is it to actually find Mail.app, considering that the OS already has this ability built in??

      MacOS X can find where Microsoft Excel is hiding on my hard drive every time I double-click on a spreadsheet - how hard can it be to find /Applications/Apple/Mail.app? Why should I be forced to organize my /Applications folder in a particular way (or, more accurately, why should I be prevented from organizing the folder) just to satisfy Apple's brain-dead installer scripts?

      Now I have to re-construct the /Applications folder to look exactly the way it did after a clean install, or I can't get application updates. MacOS 9 didn't require this. I could understand Apple's installer getting uppity if I turned /bin or /usr into my personal carnival of idiosyncracies, but I can't understand why Apple's new and improved OS is hard-wired to implode when I move an application from one folder to another.

    11. Re:10.2.2 Changes by coolMikeUSC · · Score: 1

      Ahh, what would one do if he happened to run the Software Update installer before putting things back where they're expected to be? It seems that http://www.info.apple.com/downloads/ does not show the most recent 10.2.2 update, only the updates for OSX Server...

      --
      Ever notice how fast Windows runs? Neither do I - get Mac OS
    12. Re:10.2.2 Changes by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 2

      all of my PCI slots are currently filled (second ethernet card, four port USB card, and SCSI card).

      You know, there are these neat things now called USB hubs. You don't need to add PCI cards to add USB devices any more. Just thought you'd wanna know.

      --

      I write in my journal
    13. Re:10.2.2 Changes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually the OS doesn't automatically find the correct application - it finds the one bound to that document, for example...

      MacOS X can find where Microsoft Excel is hiding on my hard drive every time I double-click on a spreadsheet - how hard can it be to find /Applications/Apple/Mail.app?

      What if you had set up XLS files to open in another application like TextEdit.app? By your reckoning, the Installer has found Microsoft Excel as it has located an application that has been bound to open XLS files. So, is it alright that it now places a different applications resources into TextEdit.app/Contents/Resources? By your argument, that's fine, but I'm sure you'll disagree when TextEdit stops working...

      Why do you need to move Mail.app anyway? How many Mail applications do you require that it has to be filed away elsewhere in the /Applications directory? Why can't you just leave the standard Apple applications alone and file away the others to your hearts content, or are you that anally retentive that it would be anaethema?

    14. Re:10.2.2 Changes by benh57 · · Score: 2
      You know, there are these neat things now called USB hubs. You don't need to add PCI cards to add USB devices any more. Just thought you'd wanna know.

      Many, Many USB devices say not to use them with a hub. Says right on the box to plug it directly into the computer. Particularly USB audio devices. If you have even more than one of these devices, you need a card, because the other jack will be for the extension to your hub.. Macs only have 2 usb jacks on the back.

    15. Re:10.2.2 Changes by jweatherley · · Score: 2

      Aaaaaarrrrrggghh! Apple replaces one Wrong Thing with another. Before 10.2.2, Apple's installer would blindly write files into /Applications/Mail.app/contents/resources without first checking to see whether Mail.app was still in the /Applications folder.

      It's worse than that. I have '/Applications' as a symlink to '/Volumes/BigPartition/Applications' and the installer scripts were too brain dead to follow it. Instead they blasted the symlink and created a new '/Applictions' folder! I wait with interest to see what the new updater will do. If it would just follow the damn symlink all would be fine. Like the parent I can't understand why Apple can't find the Apps regardless of where they are on the drive - I'm even giving them a glaringly obvious hint!

      --

      --
      Reverse outsourcing: it's the future
    16. Re:10.2.2 Changes by george399 · · Score: 1
      Macs only have 2 usb jacks on the back.

      This was a favourite of mine... "Comes with 4 USB Ports" Yeah. Right.

      There are 2 on the back, you plug the keyboard in, so now you get the "extra 2" (having used 1, so you only have 3), then you plug the mouse in, and now you're back to 1 usb port.

      --
      Patience is a virtue, but I don't have the time - TH
    17. Re:10.2.2 Changes by mbbac · · Score: 1
      Aaaaaarrrrrggghh! Apple replaces one Wrong Thing with another. Before 10.2.2, Apple's installer would blindly write files into /Applications/Mail.app/contents/resources without first checking to see whether Mail.app was still in the /Applications folder.

      Actually, it appears to be working properly now. Evidently the tech writer just wasn't capable of putting the behavior into a one-liner. Many people have noted that applications that exist in folders other than /Applications were updated by 10.2.2.
      --

      mbbac

    18. Re:10.2.2 Changes by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 2

      Just for the record, all USB devices I've ever encountered work equally well (or equally poorly, depending) connected directly to the computer or through a hub. The only exception arises when a USB device requires lots of power; if you chain too many power-hungry devices on the same bus, you can end up underpowering one or more of them. It's not a tragedy, it just means the device stops working until you give it more juice.

      There are ways around this, too: powered USB hubs.

      --

      I write in my journal
    19. Re:10.2.2 Changes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wouldn't that be beause he's "thinking different"?

    20. Re:10.2.2 Changes by Izmunuti · · Score: 1

      All of the devices on a hub share bandwidth to the computer. If one of those devices can saturate the hub, the other devices suffer. The PCI cards have a seperate controller for each plug so you can have multiple active devices without interfering with each other.

      An example from my own experience: I bought a tape backup (I know USB tape backup, bleh, it was cheap...). Originally I plopped it onto a hub shared with my modem. When doing a backup, ANY modem activity would starve the tape drive and it would stop, rewind a bit, write a little bit, stop, rewind, etc. Apparently, even when not connected the computer and modem would talk every little while.

      After getting the USB card the tape drive and modem each had their very own controller and were happily oblivious of each other.

  11. One Problem: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Journalling will be great. especially on the disk servers with 480GB worth of storage. But what the Xserves are missing is raid 5. I was pretty upset when I discovered that they only came with raid1 and raid0.

    the missing raid mode is worse than it seems. The mac xserves come with 4 big IDE disks. If you want to you want the Xserve to play nice in a unix environment then its a good idea to format the disks UFS. (you dont have to, NFS works fine with HFS+, but you risk screwing yourself with the file name case insensitivity of the mac. A rare event since most people dont have important files that differ in name only in their case but it's lurking.

    But wait! you cant format the whole thing UFS becausesome of the mac apps break unless they are on HFS+. So this means you need to format atleast one of the disks HFS for the OS and apps. that leaves three disks. But in RAID 1, you cant use an odd number of disks. So that leaves two disks for raid 1 UFS.

    Thus the best you can do is 120GB HFS+ Raid 1 and 120GB UFS Raid 1. So out of four disks the most you can get is 120GB UFS redundant storage. Ah you say, why not just make a small HFS+ partition and let the rest be UFS. Well apple does not yet support partitioning a disk with different File systems. Thus you cant split the disk into UFS and HFS+ partitions.

    Two companies are promised a partionalble raid 5 system (Xraid and NXraid) but both suddenly announced delayed shippments. My guess is they are trying to incoporate this new journaling system.

    I spoke to apple about this several times. It was hinted to me to keep watching because big things were coming. I suspect these are the Journalling FS and and an outboard mass storage disk sytem. but that's a conjecture.

    That's the bad news. The good news is that these Xserves are otherwise a very good deal. The throughput is better than comparably priced linux systems. Also they occupy only 1U but hold 480GB of hot swapable storage. Yes there are some NAS systems that are 1U but they are about 10 X slower in throughput, not to mention that they dont support as many services as the macs (LDAP, NFS, SAMBA, SSH, SCP, FTP, MAIL server, RSYNC,NET info, Net boot ...). The macs have dual Gig-E too. ANd in a very nice move Apple will sell you a spare parts kit with everyhing you are likely to need to fix a deadXSERVE in the field. Plus 24hour tech support.

    the other nice thing about the Xserve is the construction. In addition to tool-free hot swap drives, the entire chasis slides out to the front revealing everything with no screws to undo or panels to remove. It's a clever design lacking the usual add-on slider rails of your gneric linux boxes. There's even a firewire port on the front for quick access. Another nice feature is that you dont need a terminal to set them up, they will auotmatically find the administration computer on any DNS system. And if you need to have a terminal attached, you can buy a UPS based KVM switch rather then the usual clumsy Video/mouse/keyboard KVMs.

    Anyhow the bottom line is this as soon as a partionalble journaled raid 5 system is avaliable the Xserves will be one of the least expensivie full featured HIGH QUALITY 1U half terrabyte disk servers you can own. (note I said High quality). I just wish they would hurry up since I have two of these cooling their heels waiting for raid 5.

    1. Re:One Problem: by Cutriss · · Score: 5, Insightful

      you dont have to, NFS works fine with HFS+, but you risk screwing yourself with the file name case insensitivity of the mac. A rare event since most people dont have important files that differ in name only in their case but it's lurking.

      It's possible that perhaps the UNIX community needs to move past case-sensitivity in filenames and foldernames. Just because UNIX has been doing it that way for 30 years doesn't mean that it needs to be done that way, and apparently both Windows and MacOS have a hard time cooperating with it.

      Example - I'm doing development on a local machine with Visual Studio 6. I try to move my project to a Samba share so that I can work with it in a different lab...but suddenly my project won't build. It turns out that Visual Studio makes assumptions about lowercase letters in the pathing for the various files it creates during compilation. UNIX obviously doesn't abide by this, and so returns "file not found".

      Sloppy? You bet. Important? Outside of anal-retentiveness, I can't think of a single reason that you'd *WANT* to be able to support filenames that differ only by case. It's an HCI issue for one thing, and the system incompatibility issues that are now surfacing are making the issue more visible.

      I'd welcome some examples of places/functionality where case is of critical importance.

      --
      "Mod, mod, mod...and another troll bites the dust."
    2. Re:One Problem: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i wonder how high you will get moderated for this comment from the previous story. EAD.

    3. Re:One Problem: by ivan256 · · Score: 3, Informative

      I was pretty upset when I discovered that they only came with raid1 and raid0.

      Standard practice nowadays is to use RAID 0 and RAID 1 together instead of using RAID 5. The data protection is better, and the performance is too. You should make mirror sets, and then stripe them rather than the other way around. That way your system can keep running at full speed if any single disk breaks. The other thing you may consider (I don't know if this is possible under OSX, but it should be) Is to RAID your partitions instead of partitioning your RAID. This should overcome your filesystem issue.

      With the low cost of storage these days, RAID 5 is basically obsolete. Spend the extra few gigabytes, and use RAID 0+1

    4. Re:One Problem: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd welcome some examples of places/functionality where case is of critical importance.

      Speed: you don't need to use a string compare that ignores case.

      Just kidding.

    5. Re:One Problem: by Bronster · · Score: 1

      Outside of anal-retentiveness, I can't think of a single reason that you'd *WANT* to be able to support filenames that differ only by case.

      As the AC said, speed. More the point, once you start supporting unicode filenames then getting it exactly the same each time is even more important - the map of upper and lower cases in the full unicode table is huge.

      One of the reasons I hope unicode support becomes more common in the future - it will put paid to this stupid case collapsing thing.

    6. Re:One Problem: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is it huge? You have upper-lower for all Roman, Cyrillic, and Greek alphabets. How much is that? Let's say at MOST 150 letters that need upper- and lowercase. How is that a lot?

      Do the non-Unix systems that support Unicode and do the conversion find themselves chugging along?

      No.

    7. Re:One Problem: by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 5, Insightful

      With the low cost of storage these days, RAID 5 is basically obsolete. Spend the extra few gigabytes, and use RAID 0+1

      That's an overstatement. ATA/IDE/whatever storage is pretty cheap, but SCSI and Fibre Channel disks are still pricey. In order to protect a 1 TB filesystem with RAID 0+1, you'd have to have 2 TB worth of (let's say) Fibre Channel drives. That extra terabyte would cost you many thousands of dollars. But to protect the same filesystem with RAID 3 or RAID 5, you only have to have (at least) one spare drive. That's a lot cheaper than the 6 or 8 or 16 or whatever drives you'd have to buy to mirror the whole filesystem.

      I'd say that for filesystems in the range of 0-500 GB using inexpensive disks, RAID 3 and RAID 5 are probably unnecessary. But outside that set of conditions, RAID 0+1 just isn't practical.

      --

      I write in my journal
    8. Re:One Problem: by ealar+dlanvuli · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      de ja vous?

      Choose comments older than a week if your going to do that. And why would you karma whore as AC anyway?

      --
      I live in a giant bucket.
    9. Re:One Problem: by sesquiped · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I often name files starting with uppercase letters so they don't conflict with others for tab-completion, but that's not the important issue. The important issue is unicode. In general, it's much more difficult to do things case-insensitively when dealing with unicode, because case isn't a very well-defined concept. Sure, for English text using the Latin alphabet, it's pretty straightforward, but for other languages and other alphabets, it can get much messier, and you have situations like several consecutive characters being shortened to a single one, as part of case normalizing, or a character turning into multiple ones. So strings can even change size as part of case normalization, making the implementation of an accurate case-insensitive unicode string comparison quite a difficult and complex piece of code, and in particular, one that you don't want anywhere near your filesystem code.

    10. Re:One Problem: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple has supported partitions with different filesystems on the same disk for quite some time. In fact such support well predates even OS X PB. I had a dual boot OS 8.5 / Yellow Dog Linux machine almost 4 years ago. The single hard drive had both a UFS and an HFS+ partition on it without any special sftware to create the partitions.

    11. Re:One Problem: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny
      And why would you karma whore as AC anyway?

      I believe that's called Trolling.

    12. Re:One Problem: by drsmithy · · Score: 1
      With the low cost of storage these days, RAID 5 is basically obsolete. Spend the extra few gigabytes, and use RAID 0+1.

      If you're going to have a chunk of disk space that is primarily used read-only and has to be redundant, then RAID 10 is a very expensive option. A RAID 5 will give near identical performance using much less $$$.

    13. Re:One Problem: by jaywee · · Score: 2, Informative

      Samba can be configured that filenames are insensitive (which is default since samba 2.2)

    14. Re:One Problem: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      oh yeah... I thought his post might be legit (I read the first two sentances heh).

      Reading again yeah thats a troll. My bad.

    15. Re:One Problem: by Bronster · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Do they do _all_ possible cases? I seem to remember there are heaps of asian character sets that get rather huge - do you also do equivalence mapping between them? What about the different forms of period in each one - are they all valid for .ext extentions?

      What it falls down to is that you don't want similar LOOKING characters to have different values - and you've forgotten all the accented characters, umlauts, etc - do you fold them as well?

      The reason non-Unix systems that support Unicode don't chug along is that (a) they support all of Unicode and (b) they don't fold all possible cases, just the few you've mentioned above.

    16. Re:One Problem: by babbage · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Hello, anonymous coward, or shall we say goombah99. Could we maybe not have the exact same [mildly trollish] message posted almost verbatim every couple of days? It's bad enough when the site editors repeat stories and the trolls go on & on with their nonsense. Please try not to make things worse. Thank you.

    17. Re:One Problem: by zzen · · Score: 4, Informative
      Ah you say, why not just make a small HFS+ partition and let the rest be UFS. Well apple does not yet support partitioning a disk with different File systems. Thus you cant split the disk into UFS and HFS+ partitions.

      Well I don't know of which support exactly you are speaking of, but I've been running 2 HFS+ partitions and 1 UFS partition on my iMac (with a single 40GB disk) since 10.0.3 (client) and continue to do so until now (10.2.2).

      And in case you forgot to setup the FS types correctly when partitioning, here's the hint how to do it afterwards. You cannot normaly just select "Erase disk" and put a different FS type on it. It will offer only the same type as the partition already has. BUT if you reboot with an OS X install CD and launch Disk Utility, you will be able to change the format of the partition without touching the rest of the disk.

    18. Re:One Problem: by Alex+Thorpe · · Score: 1

      Hmm, didn't I read this exact same rant, word for word, in another Slashdot thread today? Either that, or they changed something in the Matrix... ;-)

      --
      "Common Sense Ain't" -Unknown
    19. Re:One Problem: by ivan256 · · Score: 2

      That's an overstatement. ATA/IDE/whatever storage is pretty cheap, but SCSI and Fibre Channel disks are still pricey. In order to protect a 1 TB filesystem with RAID 0+1, you'd have to have 2 TB worth of (let's say) Fibre Channel drives. That extra terabyte would cost you many thousands of dollars. But to protect the same filesystem with RAID 3 or RAID 5, you only have to have (at least) one spare drive. That's a lot cheaper than the 6 or 8 or 16 or whatever drives you'd have to buy to mirror the whole filesystem.

      Basically, you've got to spend 33% more on your storage to use 0+1 instead of RAID 5. For smaller arrays, that's not a lot of actual dollars. The only real place I see for RAID 5 anymore is for low-end, medium-reliability configurations with more than 500Gb of storage. If you're a low end user with a 1TB array, then you'll go for the 33% savings. If you're not backing up your array, you'll probably not be spending the extra 33% (even though you probably should!). If you're backing up your terabyte array, and you are in an enterprise environment, the cost of your backup solution and your dedicated redundant caching controllers dwarfs the 33% increase in cost to go from raid 5 to raid 0+1. Also, the cost increase is typically justified by the increased performance of the 0+1 solution.

      You're right, RIAD 5 isn't dead, but it's niche is shrinking.

    20. Re:One Problem: by drsmithy · · Score: 1
      The good news is that these Xserves are otherwise a very good deal. The throughput is better than comparably priced linux systems. [...]

      At least in here in .au, a comparable Dell PE 1650 costs about 30% less at any given configuration point. Having just spent a few weeks evaluating an Xserve, in my mind the only advantage it has is the presence of four 120GB drives. Which, as you've noticed, are difficult to use efficiently due to the missing RAID 5. Dell also have a much better range of support options and IMHO their rack kits are much better.
      For every 2 high-end Xserves you could buy three 1650s, and the 1650s can take another 2GB of RAM as well (and would have 3 year same day 4-hour response warranties). I could not in good conscience call the Xserve a "good deal" unless it features something you expressly require (like OS X).

      I've mentioned the things I'd really like to see in the Xserve to our Apple dealer - basic hardware RAID, ECC RAM, *on-board* dual GB ethernet and about 20% knocked off the price. He said he'd pass it on :).

      On the upside, the Xserve was the first Mac I've used that actually ran OS X's GUI with something resembling responsiveness.

    21. Re:One Problem: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Journalling will be great. especially on the disk servers with 480GB worth of storage. But what the Xserves are missing is raid 5. I was pretty upset when I discovered that they only came with raid1 and raid0.

      the missing raid mode is worse than it seems. The mac xserves come with 4 big IDE disks. If you want to you want the Xserve to play nice in a unix environment then its a good idea to format the disks UFS. (you dont have to, NFS works fine with HFS+, but you risk screwing yourself with the file name case insensitivity of the mac. A rare event since most people dont have important files that differ in name only in their case but it's lurking.

      But wait! you cant format the whole thing UFS becausesome of the mac apps break unless they are on HFS+. So this means you need to format atleast one of the disks HFS for the OS and apps. that leaves three disks. But in RAID 1, you cant use an odd number of disks. So that leaves two disks for raid 1 UFS.

      Thus the best you can do is 120GB HFS+ Raid 1 and 120GB UFS Raid 1. So out of four disks the most you can get is 120GB UFS redundant storage. Ah you say, why not just make a small HFS+ partition and let the rest be UFS. Well apple does not yet support partitioning a disk with different File systems. Thus you cant split the disk into UFS and HFS+ partitions.

      Two companies are promised a partionalble raid 5 system (Xraid and NXraid) but both suddenly announced delayed shippments. My guess is they are trying to incoporate this new journaling system.

      I spoke to apple about this several times. It was hinted to me to keep watching because big things were coming. I suspect these are the Journalling FS and and an outboard mass storage disk sytem. but that's a conjecture.

      That's the bad news. The good news is that these Xserves are otherwise a very good deal. The throughput is better than comparably priced linux systems. Also they occupy only 1U but hold 480GB of hot swapable storage. Yes there are some NAS systems that are 1U but they are about 10 X slower in throughput, not to mention that they dont support as many services as the macs (LDAP, NFS, SAMBA, SSH, SCP, FTP, MAIL server, RSYNC,NET info, Net boot ...). The macs have dual Gig-E too. ANd in a very nice move Apple will sell you a spare parts kit with everyhing you are likely to need to fix a deadXSERVE in the field. Plus 24hour tech support.

      the other nice thing about the Xserve is the construction. In addition to tool-free hot swap drives, the entire chasis slides out to the front revealing everything with no screws to undo or panels to remove. It's a clever design lacking the usual add-on slider rails of your gneric linux boxes. There's even a firewire port on the front for quick access. Another nice feature is that you dont need a terminal to set them up, they will auotmatically find the administration computer on any DNS system. And if you need to have a terminal attached, you can buy a UPS based KVM switch rather then the usual clumsy Video/mouse/keyboard KVMs.

      Anyhow the bottom line is this as soon as a partionalble journaled raid 5 system is avaliable the Xserves will be one of the least expensivie full featured HIGH QUALITY 1U half terrabyte disk servers you can own. (note I said High quality). I just wish they would hurry up since I have two of these cooling their heels waiting for raid 5.
      --
      I am Jack's Medula Oblongata

    22. Re:One Problem: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      why would you mod this offtopic when the parent is still at 5?

      thats kinda silly..

    23. Re:One Problem: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Sorry, I don't buy it.

      Tab completion in shells is not an issue. It works fine on HFS+, and is just as case-sensitive as always or not, depending on your shell settings.

      So your beef with case-sensitivity comes down to: Unicode is hard, and because it's hard, you don't want to do it. But you don't have to do it. Apple does it for you. Apple has been doing it for a long time for you. Apple even made it work very quickly for the common case, because Apple is just hoopy.

    24. Re:One Problem: by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 2

      Basically, you've got to spend 33% more on your storage to use 0+1 instead of RAID 5.

      No, you've got it backwards. To use RAID 5, you'll have to spend up to 33% more on disks than you would if you used no RAID protection at all. If you bought two 100 GB drives (to keep the numbers round) you'd spend $200 (again to keep the numbers round). To RAID-protect those two 100 GB drives with RAID-3 or RAID-5, you'd have to buy one more 100 GB drive, meaning you spend $300 to buy 200 GB of storage. You spent 33% more.

      To create a RAID-0+1 set out of those two drives, you'd have two choices. You could just mirror the drives by themselves, and have 100 GB of storage space for $200-- 100% more money than you would have spent if you'd just bought one 100 GB disk. Or, if you have to have 200 GB of usable space, you could buy two more 100 GB drives and create a RAID-0+1 set out of them, giving you 200 GB of space for $400-- again, 100% more than you would have spent for just the two disks alone.

      So the difference in cost between RAID-3/5 and RAID-0+1 starts at 66% above the cost of the data disks themselves. But you can create a RAID-3 or a RAID-5 set out of any number of drives. You could have bought ten 100 GB drives, build a RAID-3 or a RAID-5 set out of them, had 900 GB of usable space, and only spent 10% more on storage than you would have spent without RAID protection. (The other way of looking at it is that you sacrifice a fraction of your usable storage up to 33% when using RAID-3 or RAID-5. Either way, the fraction never exceeds 33% unless you start counting hot spares, mirrored parity drives [for RAID-3], and things of that nature.)

      On the other hand, to use RAID 0+1, you have to have one mirror disk for every data disk, meaning you have no choice at all but to spend 100% more on storage than you otherwise would have. The difference in cost between RAID-3/5 and RAID-0+1 starts at 66% of the value of your usable storage and goes up from there.

      RAID-3/5 actually makes more sense in all applications that aren't seriously affected by storage performance. RAID-3/5 are inherently slower than RAID 1 because they involve the generation of parity data, and that takes some measurable amount of time during writes. Depending on your RAID software, you may do a parity check on reads as well as a preventative measure, and in that case your reads slow down as well. But RAID-3/5 will always be less expensive than RAID-1 for four drives or more. (You can't do RAID-3/5 with two drives, and you can't do RAID-1 with three drives, so one has to start comparing them at four.)

      Now, in some specific cases, RAID-0+1 gives you a level of functionality you can't get with RAID-3/5, and it makes sense to use it for that reason. For example, in an enterprise environment with (say) 20 TB of data in a big array, I would consider setting up a three-way stripe/mirror set. That way, you can detach one of the mirrors and do an offline back-up to tape or whatever, while the production filesystem continues to run with its other mirror protecting it. When the backup or whatever is complete, simply reattach the offline mirror and re-synchronize it. Storage arrays like the HDS 9900 series use this sort of trick all the time, and in that environment it makes a lot of sense.

      But absent of outside factors, just considering pure cost of investment alone, RAID-3/5 will always be cheaper than RAID-0+1 for four drives or more.

      --

      I write in my journal
    25. Re:One Problem: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You don't even have to go to non-Latin alphabets. If you're writing Turkish, "I" is *not* the capital of "i". So is "Ii" the same filename as "II"? Is it different if I had my system set to the Turkish locale when I created it? When I list it?

      I general I think case-insensitive filenames are better, but Unicode does present some pretty ... interesting ... situations.

    26. Re:One Problem: by goombah99 · · Score: 2

      Hi this is Goobah99. No I did not repeat my own post. someone copied it verbatim ans reposted it as an AC. Weird.

      --
      Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    27. Re:One Problem: by BlueGecko · · Score: 2
      But wait! you cant format the whole thing UFS becausesome of the mac apps break unless they are on HFS+. So this means you need to format atleast one of the disks HFS for the OS and apps. that leaves three disks. But in RAID 1, you cant use an odd number of disks. So that leaves two disks for raid 1 UFS.
      What kinds of apps are you planning on running on an Xserve, dare I ask? None of the apps that ship with OS X have this problem--in fact, those that do are pretty much only a handful of Classic apps. Further, if your complaint is that you would run the Classic apps over a network from being hosted on the Xserve: that would be done via AFS, which, like HFS+, preserves case, but is not case-sensitive. So I assume that this problem would be masked. (That said, I don't get, honestly, why it matters.)
    28. Re:One Problem: by captaineo · · Score: 3

      Internationalization IS the big problem. If you want open() to be "case-insensitive," the kernel must include not only the simple mapping from English uppercase letters to English lowercase letters, but also the mappings from Traditional to Simplified Chinese characters, Japanese Hiragana to Katakana, etc. (you're talking megabytes of kernel memory here).. Now you can and SHOULD do this kind of thing in user-space GUI libraries (e.g. File Open dialog boxes), but underneath the kernel should not do anything more than strict byte-matching.

      In other words, blame Visual Studio for handling cases wrong...

    29. Re:One Problem: by tadheckaman · · Score: 0, Troll

      This post is identical to a post I put up this morning on and news leak of this. amazing that this clown copied it verbatim an posted it.

      --
      My potato gun was confiscated by the United Nations. They said I wasn't allowed to have weapons of mash destruction.
    30. Re:One Problem: by Raffaello · · Score: 2, Funny

      RAID = Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disks.

      (and no, I don't buy the post hoc redefinition of the acronym as "Independent.")

      So, if the disks are not inexpensive, by definition, it isnt RAID. Using expensive disks to do RAID largely defeats the purpose of RAID.

      Note also, that so called RAID level 0 isn't really RAID either, since there is no redundancy.

    31. Re:One Problem: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it was good trolling material, I'm sure they will use it in about a month to gain instant karma when some JFS comes under question again.

      at least thats what I think happened =p

    32. Re:One Problem: by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 2

      no, I don't buy the post hoc redefinition of the acronym

      Not to be rude, but so what? I don't recall anybody asking you if you agreed with the current common usage of the term "RAID." It means what it means: a number of hard drives concatenated, striped, or otherwise combined to behave as a single logical device. Whether the combination of drives is redundant or not, or whether the individual drives is inexpensive or not, isn't important these days. The various implementations of RAID have been well defined, and are understood by everybody in the field. Quibbling over definitions that have long since been rendered moot is a waste of time.

      --

      I write in my journal
    33. Re:One Problem: by Pinky · · Score: 0

      I, for one, don't think much of Unix path conventions since your average Unix program breaks when it encounters a space.

      DoS attacks, no prob.
      64-bit systems no prob.
      protected memory.. sure..

      Space characters - Aggghh!

      That and Unix is STILL used hard paths instead of file IDs.. /foo/bar/moo.lib

      renamed to /Foo/bar/moo.lib

      AGGHHH! Program can could survive a nuke is taken out by a one char difference two folders below some library.

      Anyways...

    34. Re:One Problem: by Hrothgar+The+Great · · Score: 3, Informative

      The way I see it, upper case letters and lower case letters are different. Simple as that. They have different numerical values, for example. Why should we want to create arbitrary rules dictating that two fundamentally different filenames should in fact be the same just because it seems to make sense linguistically? I think such rules create unnecessary complications.

    35. Re:One Problem: by Kranium · · Score: 1

      Complications for the programmers, maybe. Arbitrary rules? How is knowing 'A' == 'a' arbitrary? The numerical value of "A" is irrelevant.. it's an "A".

    36. Re:One Problem: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've used the post a few times in the past and I like it. I'll probably use it again pretty soon. Kudos to you if you catch me doing it.
      --
      I am Jack's Medula Oblongata

    37. Re:One Problem: by babbage · · Score: 2, Funny

      Wow, congratulations Goombah, you've got an identity thief. It's like you're living in a techno cyber ninja thriller. I'm so jealous :)

    38. Re:One Problem: by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm not a native speaker of Japanese or Chinese, but I'm a little educated in both. Hiragana and katakana are different alphabets with different purposes. The katakana character for the syllable "ka" is not equivalent to the hiragana character for the syllable "ka." There's no circumstance under which you'd want corresponding hiragana and katakana characters to be considered equal.

      As far as Chinese goes, traditional Chinese characters are used in Taiwan, while simplified Chinese characters are used in mainland China. Again, they're not equivalent. So you wouldn't need or want to map between them.

      The uppercase-lowercase thing is pretty much unique to Latin and Latin-derived alphabets. Some languages have contextual forms-- for example, an initial character in Arabic looks different from the same character in medial or final position in the word-- but that's a rendering issue, not an encoding issue.

      I actually think it would be quite straightforward to design a Unicode-based system that's case-insensitive with respect to alphabets that have distinct cases. More work than doing so for ASCII, of course, but not insurmountably more.

      --

      I write in my journal
    39. Re:One Problem: by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 2

      If you're writing Turkish, you're going to be using the ISO-8859-9 character mapping. The capital letter corresponding to the lowercase "i" (U+0069) is U+0130 ("LATIN CAPITAL LETTER I WITH DOT ABOVE"), while the capital letter corresponding to lowercase U+0131, "LATIN SMALL LETTER DOTLESS I," is I (U+0049).

      Because your system will chose a character mapping for displaying and sorting strings based on your locale setting, if your locale is set incorrectly, string comparisons for case and sorting won't be done properly.

      --

      I write in my journal
    40. Re:One Problem: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hi this is AC. No I did not repeat my own post. someone copied it verbatim ans reposted it as Goobah99. Weird.
      I am Jack's Medula Oblongata

    41. Re:One Problem: by yesod · · Score: 1

      Certainly iMovie will not work if you store the DV files on a UFS partition.

    42. Re:One Problem: by Toraz+Chryx · · Score: 1

      "On the upside, the Xserve was the first Mac I've used that actually ran OS X's GUI with something resembling responsiveness."

      First Quartz Extreme utilising Mac you used?

    43. Re:One Problem: by bursch-X · · Score: 4, Interesting
      There's no circumstance under which you'd want corresponding hiragana and katakana characters to be considered equal.
      Huh? What about displaying Japanese file names in Dictionary order (aiueo), then of course you don't care whether it's Katakana or Hiragana, but you care whether any "nigori" are used etc. and you definitely want to to intermix the two systems. (and the same goes for the readings of the Kanji, you don't care for the Kanji used, but the Hiragana readings of them).
      --
      There are two rules for success:
      1. Never tell everything you know.
    44. Re:One Problem: by twoshortplanks · · Score: 2

      Can you explain to me what the difference between file IDs and a path name is please? They're both unique ids that point to a resource.

      Remember that under unix you can have a symlink (like a shortcut but supported by the very OS rather than just by the file manager.) This can be used to point from your "file ID" (your unique path) to whereever you actually want the file.

      This seems to me to be a much more user friendly way of doing things. Of course, you're more than welcome to disagree over that - it's one of those cultral things (you tend to like what you're used to) so of course people are going to say one system is better than the other and vice versa.

      --
      -- Sorry, I can't think of anything funny to say here.
    45. Re:One Problem: by twoshortplanks · · Score: 2
      On my linux box I have two commands
      • head - get the first 'n' lines of a file
      • HEAD - send a http head request to a website and print the result
      I have heard my Mac friends complain about the inability to use both commands on the same system, and the problems this has caused.

      This is a thing about power. Traditionally Linux users think the power to do whatever they want is the most important thing. The Mac thinks that it's the power to get things done in the easiest way possible (even if you have to make a few edge cases harder - or impossible to do.) You'd be a fool to say either way was better than the other, as it really just reflects on your personal opinion which power is more important.

      --
      -- Sorry, I can't think of anything funny to say here.
    46. Re:One Problem: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know noone cares, maybe even read this.. but.. sometimes I do use an initial capital letter on my directory names. So they are clearly visible on a monocrom display.. or a telnet session.

    47. Re:One Problem: by vague · · Score: 1

      Actually, you're the fool to think this has anything to do with power. So rename one of the heads. What is it with the ability to have the files Grok, grOk, GRok, and grOK in the same directory that gives you a sense of power? The mere thought only serves to give me a headache.

      The same filename with different casing is still the same filename. The charachters we (we) use come from an alphabet where the letters 'a' and 'A' are identical in sound and meaning. That they have different numerical representations in the computer is completly irrelevant, that's just because the computer needs to encode them in some way. In real use, too all humans using our alphabet, every day, they represent the same letter. If your name is 'Gauss' you're likely to at some point have written is 'gauss' or 'GAUSS'. You recognise that this still is the same name don't you? That's because in our alphabet _it is_.

      Filenames ultimately are a small piece of metadata attached to a file for the sake of humans. If filenames were meant for computers the files would have names like 1, 2, 3, 4, ..., 54654654, ...

      --

      -
      Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.

    48. Re:One Problem: by twoshortplanks · · Score: 2
      Actually, you're the fool to think this has anything to do with power
      Hey, I never denied I was a fool ;-)

      What is it with the ability to have the files Grok, grOk, GRok, and grOK in the same directory that gives you a sense of power?
      Nothing. But I wasn't talking about having lots of files named /Grok/i, I was talking about a more general situation.

      My point was (and still is) that in a Linux sense having case sensitivity is thought of as more powerful system as there isn't a arbitary restriction placed on you by the operating system. (you can always do the case munging in user space if you really want.) The counter argument from HFS+ fans is that the filesystem is better as it's more powerful - look, it has these power features like ignoring cases on reads.

      Until Linux users can recognise the design decisions were made for valid reasons for the Mac (and vice versa) we'll never get anywhere. Yes, you might not agree with them...but that's okay. You just have to accept that they have their reasons.

      The same filename with different casing is still the same filename.

      This is all dependant on your point of view. You're looking at the issue as someone who's used primarly to dealing with letters as words. Other people who are used to thinking of letters as codes for numbers may not agree with you. Neither of you is right - or maybe both of you are - it's just a different model of looking at it. It's a cultral thing.

      Filenames ultimately are a small piece of metadata attached to a file for the sake of humans. If filenames were meant for computers the files would have names like 1, 2, 3, 4, ..., 54654654, ...

      That's like saying domain names are just for humans to use and computers should just use IP addresses. This is clearly not true as if a computer needs to change IP and if there was no lookup system via the DNS then none of the other computers would be able to find it and it's resources again. Likewise if a computer needs to find a file resource then it looks it up by it's filename, not by an inode, as who knows what that inode might be on any particular system. Filenames, like domain names, are both human readable but are important for computers to find things too.

      --
      -- Sorry, I can't think of anything funny to say here.
    49. Re:One Problem: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Do they do _all_ possible cases? I seem to remember there are heaps of asian character sets that get rather huge - do you also do equivalence mapping between them? What about the different forms of period in each one - are they all valid for .ext extentions?
      Those Asian character sets that you speak of don't have the concept of uppercase and lowercase. (Seriously, what would a lowercase kanji look like?)
    50. Re:One Problem: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I know noone cares, maybe even read this.. but.. sometimes I do use an initial capital letter on my directory names. So they are clearly visible on a monocrom display.. or a telnet session.
      HFS+ is case-insensitive, but case preserving as well. That is, if I name a directory "Folder", it is displayed as "Folder" (both on the CLI and in the GUI), but I can refer to it as "folder" "FOLDER" "FoLdEr" or whatever.
    51. Re:One Problem: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Nobody stole my identity.

      Can I buy you something with my credit card? Maybe one of these.
      --
      I am Jack's Medula Oblongata

    52. Re:One Problem: by piggy · · Score: 1
      My understanding is that the file ID points to the file, while the path name points to the logical filesystem location of the file. If the file moves, the file ID does not break, and still points to the file. A path name, however, still points to the old, no longer valid, logical filesystem location of the file. That is, the physical location of the file has not changed, but the path name breaks when the logical location changes.

      Russell

    53. Re:One Problem: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you're absolutely righT. case has no meaning in written europeaN languageS. it's just noisE. thank goD microsofT windowS and mACos care enough about hci to get it righT.

      computer security is another example of where case sensitivity is just stupiD. people have a hard enough time remembering their passwords without the hassle of case sensitivitY.

    54. Re:One Problem: by Hrothgar+The+Great · · Score: 2

      That's just it, it's not irrelevant, and your filesystem should not place limits on the amount of unique file names to suit your linguistic preferences. And it is an arbitrary rule, because it is soon to be followed by lots of other brilliant ideas you'll probably come up with, like automatic spell checking on file names, or file types based on the meaning of the name, or some such garbage.

      Filesystems designed with simplicity, which allow the USER to decide how to organize their own files, will always be a better choice. Overcomplicating the filesystem because some people can't manage to keep track of their stuff just makes the system bigger and slower. No thanks.

    55. Re:One Problem: by Melantha_Bacchae · · Score: 2

      An AC wrote:

      > Those Asian character sets that you speak of
      > don't have the concept of uppercase and lowercase.
      > (Seriously, what would a lowercase kanji look
      > like?)

      The Japanese don't have lowercase, but their "alphabets" aren't going to easily map to the English one any time soon. For one thing, they have three "alphabets": two that represent sylables (hiragana - for japanese words, and katakana - for foreign borrow words and names like "Gojira"), and one that represents ideograms (kanji) that has as many as 45,000 characters. It is rare (vowels and 'n' in the hiragana and katakana, and a few kanji) that a Japanese character will exactly map to an English one. Even then, you are going to have multiple characters mapping to an English one. The kanji up the anti, as they have two to ten readings per kanji, and tens of thousands of kanji.

      Oh, and in case you are wondering, Jaguar handles all that just fine. I ripped my "Gojira, Mosura, Kingu Ghidora: Daikaiju Soukogeki" soundtrack in iTunes, and got its titles, in kanji, off the web database. The mp3s and the folder they are in are all named in kanji, just as nice as you please. What's more, they appear on my iPod's playlist in kanji.

      "Compassionate Sun, Sun Goddess, Great Mothra! Great Mothra! Mothra!"
      Japanese language "Mothra's Song", "Ebirah, Horror of the Deep"

    56. Re:One Problem: by vague · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > It's a cultral thing.

      Actually, it's not. I talk about the one and only use letters were designed for, to be read and written by humans. This is how they are designed. Fact remains, filenames are metadata designed to be read by humans primarily. The fact that such a system also is useful for the computer and that it's convinient for them to use the same system as humans in many situation doesn't change this. To limit the usefulness of metadata for humans just because the computer also likes to use it is ass backwards. If that's the problem the right thing is instead to invent a parallell system for the computer to use where the problems doesn exist for the computer. I repeat, if filenames were primarily designed for computers to read, they would be file numbers.

      That you like to think of words on the computer as different than words anywhere else doesn't change the fact that this is a lousy interface decision for humans, because words are words even in a filename.

      > That's like saying domain names are just for humans to use and computers should just use IP addresses.

      Exactly.

      > This is clearly not true as if a computer needs to change IP and if there was no lookup system via the DNS then none of the other computers would be able to find it and it's resources again.

      Problem found, analysis deficient. URLs are designed for one purpose, to make addresses human readable (one can argue whether they succeded or not but...). The fact that it can _also_ fill a function for computers is superflous. Sure it can, but it wasn't designed primarily for this, and every time this secondary use hampers the primary use you're doing things the wrong way.

      --

      -
      Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.

    57. Re:One Problem: by castanaveras · · Score: 1

      Before I went to OSX and the pain in the butt case-insensitive filesystem, I had a lot of projects where source code for foo was in Foo, and the top level Makefile would make a lc foo in the same directory.

      Similarly I've run across projects where 'makefile' is the raw file, and 'Makefile' is the same file with the correct paths substituted in, and any other configuration changes.

    58. Re:One Problem: by mbbac · · Score: 1
      It's possible that perhaps the UNIX community needs to move past case-sensitivity in filenames and foldernames. Just because UNIX has been doing it that way for 30 years doesn't mean that it needs to be done that way, and apparently both Windows and MacOS have a hard time cooperating with it.

      I think the Mac filesystem's way of handling case is superior. It preserves case, but isn't sensitive to it. It also preserves accents, but isn't sensitive to them. This means that "bjork" and "Björk" sort as if they are the same artist, which they are!
      --

      mbbac

    59. Re:One Problem: by twoshortplanks · · Score: 3, Interesting
      I'm impressed a lot by your argument here, and I'm willing to say that you're right...maybe filenames should be case insensative. However, sadly in this world we're all not going to agree on things, and how much I might like to agree with you about the merits of HFS+, some people are still going to want case insensative systems.

      I still argue it's a cultral thing. Many unix users would never sacrifice the ability to have case sensitive file systems as they'd die before taking functionality away from their system. You say "That you like to think of words on the computer as different than words anywhere else doesn't change the fact that this is a lousy interface decision for humans, because words are words even in a filename". However consider that to a Unix person having case insensitve files breaks their interface considerably. It's just inconsistant with every else that treats all things as strings. The -h option is not the same as the -H option. And yes, maybe this is wrong, but it's their culture that has set them up to do it.

      What I'm trying to say here is that no matter what you might think of the idea being wrong, the people that use it arn't wrong themselves. They're just following a different set of guidelines. (Note, I don't mean to imply that you think they are or that you made this point...it's just a point that's worth making)

      This reminds me of a debate I had about spaces in a file name. Now, I personally have no very stong feelings on the matter, but I can remember a Mac user complaining a lot about bad handling of spaces in a filename in Unix. Now, to be fair they're completely right in their opinion - unix does break horribly. What they're wrong in doing is considering that this is due to stupidity...it's not, it's a cultral thing. To the command line people a space isn't part of a file name unless it's properly escaped....it's a meta charecter that delimits the edge of commands and file names. It's a hang over from using the CLI too much...

      And yes, you could consider this bad and wrong (especially in the day of the GUI,) but it's a convention that's sprung up over time...like double clicking, or anything else that you can't really draw a comparision to the real world.

      Oh, and on a personal note, thanks for the debate...it's not often you get sensible replies on slashdot ;-)

      --
      -- Sorry, I can't think of anything funny to say here.
    60. Re:One Problem: by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 2

      D'oh! Of course, you're right. I was talking about case-mapping, but I spoke so generally that my comment applied equally well to sorting, and that's wrong. Of course you want to be able to sort Japanese characters in dictionary order, and you (may or may not) want words starting with hiragana "ka" to appear next to words starting with katakana "ka." For that purpose, you have to be able to sort the two character sets together. But strictly speaking, a name spelled in katakana characters is different from a name spelled in hiragana characters, even if it's made up of the same syllables. So you wouldn't want to "case-fold" hiragana into katakana or vice versa.

      --

      I write in my journal
    61. Re:One Problem: by lamz · · Score: 2

      Hey! This is the second time that I've seen someone complaining about a post being plagiarized. Has someone plagiarized your complaint? What's the world coming to?!?!

      --

      Mike van Lammeren
      It will challenge your head, your brain, and your mind.

    62. Re:One Problem: by hondo77 · · Score: 2

      I can't think of a single reason that you'd *WANT* to be able to support filenames that differ only by case.

      Just because you have a limited imagination, that is no reason to shackle the rest of us. I've had case-sensitivity for over 20 years. I'm the customer. I want it. "System compatibility issues" is a red herring. At some point you have to move off the punch cards and join the 1970's. If that means being incompatible with punch cards, so be it.

      --
      I live ze unknown. I love ze unknown. I am ze unknown.
    63. Re: One Problem: by andreas_ky · · Score: 1
      The uppercase-lowercase thing is pretty much unique to Latin and Latin-derived alphabets.
      Make that Greek and Greek-derived and it's somewhat closer to the truth as it will subsume both Latin and Cyrillic. Nevertheless, there are alphabetic writing systems such as Georgian that have upper and lower case and which developed independently.
    64. Re:One Problem: by vague · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > They're just following a different set of guidelines.

      So, in a sense, the filesystem might be better of if it could accomodate both types of needs with different tools. The average users need to treat filenames as sensible labels by which they recognise and organize their data. This is the HCI view. The system administrator o.t.o.h. needs to treat filenames as one needs to treat strings in programming language, often with great precision and exact matching, no guesses on what the computer might consider equal. I'm not entierly certain that it's not the culture that should change (in the long run), but at any rate one needs to be practical and plotical right here and right now. So is there any way one could accomodate both sides equally without creating a quagmire of redundancy? I have this sinking feeling there might not...

      > Oh, and on a personal note, thanks for the debate...it's not often you get sensible replies on slashdot ;-)

      The feeling is 100% mutual I assure you =)

      --

      -
      Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.

    65. Re:One Problem: by anarkhos · · Score: 2

      HFS+ is case-preserving so tab completion works.

      HFS+ supports unicode.

      How the hell did the previous post get modded up?!

      --
      >80 column hard wrapped e-mail is not a sign of intelligent
      >life
    66. Re:One Problem: by captaineo · · Score: 2

      As bursch-X pointed out, you do need the Simplified-Traditional mapping in strcmp() or whatever comparison function you use for sorting. (however you are right in the sense that most kernel-level filesystems don't need to sort filenames, only compare equal-or-not-equal).

      As a student of Chinese I have many Simplified and Traditional files on my system. You are right that Taiwanese users might not care too much about support for Simplified characters, but the reverse mapping is important since Traditional characters are making a comeback in mainland China... And unlike Hiragana and Katakana, the two character forms are completely interchangeable; someone who is literate in both will often not even be aware of which form he is reading.

      I have not studied too much Japanese, but I know there is also the issue of certain words that can appear as either kanji or Hiragana...

      I think there is an argument for providing these Unicode character mappings at the libc level, however I'd prefer to see them in a higher-level library that could be shared between GUI applications. (like the international text layout functions in libpango, which theoretically could serve all GNOME, KDE, and Xlib apps)

    67. Re:One Problem: by drsmithy · · Score: 1
      First Quartz Extreme utilising Mac you used?

      No. Until this the fastest was a 933MHz G4 and my daily user is a Rev A PB 667. The 933 was too slow with any more than a trivial amount of applications running and my PB is even worse.

    68. Re:One Problem: by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 2

      Traditional characters are making a comeback in mainland China

      Okay, I stand corrected on that one. Am I correct in assuming that there's a one-to-one mapping between simplified and traditional characters? For every character, that is, there's zero or one simplified forms and one traditional form?

      I know there is also the issue of certain words that can appear as either kanji or Hiragana...

      Yeah, but that's different. That's mapping a set of characters to one character. Way beyond simple case matching there. Hell, that borders on "do what I mean" technology. But then again, input systems like Kotoeri can map hiragana input to kanji (in a one-to-many way with lots of user input), so maybe it's possible.

      --

      I write in my journal
    69. Re:One Problem: by captaineo · · Score: 2
      Am I correct in assuming that there's a one-to-one mapping between simplified and traditional characters? For every character, that is, there's zero or one simplified forms and one traditional form?

      Yes. There are a handful of oddball characters that have more than one traditional form or more than one simplified form, but your assumption is true for the vast majority of Chinese characters.

      An oddball example is the character for "enough" (pronounced "gou4" in Mandarin) - it is sometimes written with the left and right-hand sides reversed. Each variant is a different Unicode codepoint (U+5920 and U+591F); and you'd definitely want to include these in a string-comparison function. :)

    70. Re:One Problem: by Toraz+Chryx · · Score: 1

      okay then, first dual processor mac?

    71. Re:One Problem: by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 2

      Okay, you've convinced me. I give up. From now on, I'm sticking strictly with ASCII. And none of this mixed-case business, either. I'm going back to the old days to keep things simple.

      THANKS FOR YOUR INPUT. SEE YOU AROUND.
      :wq

      --

      I write in my journal
  12. Firewall's off by default by JPRelph · · Score: 1

    Probably a good thing, there doesn't seem to be many (or any?) security problems with OSX, and all the risky stuff like Apache and remote login is turned off by default. JP.

    1. Re:Firewall's off by default by buckhead_buddy · · Score: 1

      Jaguar is actually less secure than prior versions of Mac OS X.

      In the past, there weren't any network services turned on by default. These days Mac OS X v 10.2 comes with Samba and Rendevous turned on with a default install.

    2. Re:Firewall's off by default by JPRelph · · Score: 1

      How harmful is Rendezvous to have turned on if you have no services turned on? Also, Windows File Sharing was definitely turned off on install, all of the options in the System Preferences/Sharing pane were off to start with.

  13. MOD PARENT UP! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thx. For a moment there, I was wondering how I'd have missed 10.2.1. I'm as religious on the release stuff as the finger @finger.kernel.org linux zealots ;)

  14. Mods on crack by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    God damn, the moderators are stupid today. MacOS X's update app doesn't show anything about 10.2.2, so I'm inclined to believe the parent post is true. Please lay down the crack pipe and mod it up!

    1. Re:Mods on crack by phebz23 · · Score: 1

      Check it again, sparky....

  15. Re:Troll story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sadly your post would be marked down as troll when other ppl try to get karma by faking posts. Sad case. This dude is telling the truth, go to the apple site, there is no such thing as 10.2.2. Neither is there a 10.2.1. In logical succession, which should come first?

    I think this guy is a lot more credible than ppl posting wishlists and claming those are things found in 10.2.2.

    Thank you.
    Mary Elkert

  16. Re:Troll story by grahamlee · · Score: 1
    I work for Apple's East division, there is no such thing as 10.2.2.
    Suggestion: Apple should improve their internal information systems. For instance, this comes from http://www.apple.com/macosx (with appropriate copyrightness apols.)...

    Mac OS X Update 10.2.2: run Software Update for enhanced functionality and improved reliability of various applications.

    Note that the link above does indeed go to the correct AppleCare article.
  17. I pray Panther will fix pam.. by Raleel · · Score: 2

    Once they fix pam, I won't have many bitches with OSX. As it is, you cannot kerberos login and exect a screensaver to work wihout a local password.

    --
    -- Who is the bigger fool? The fool or the fool who follows him? --
    1. Re:I pray Panther will fix pam.. by netsrek · · Score: 2

      What's that one? You can't unlock the screensaver without a local password if you've logged in via Kerb ? It bugs me even more that loginwindow itself doesn't talk to PAM, it just talks to the SecurityServer directly. Makes PAM almost useless imho... I'd love to be able to do native radius auth at the desktop....

      --

      i don't read slashdot anymore.
    2. Re:I pray Panther will fix pam.. by TweetZilla · · Score: 1

      It's just too overrated for me. I can't be bothered with it. I know that sounds harsh but that's the way I feel about it.

  18. Big fan of OSX, but... by underwhelm · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm still waiting for VCD support. >:(

    --

    I don't need large brains to have a good time.

    1. Re:Big fan of OSX, but... by underwhelm · · Score: 1

      And let me clarify that OSX is my primary OS, and this is a minor quibble.

      --

      I don't need large brains to have a good time.

    2. Re:Big fan of OSX, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      http://www.macvcd.com/

      Idiot....

    3. Re:Big fan of OSX, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what's wrong with vlc ?

    4. Re:Big fan of OSX, but... by joel8x · · Score: 2, Informative

      VideoLAN Client works fine for me.

      --
      Sound waves should be free!
    5. Re:Big fan of OSX, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ???

      My VCDs work... Play em with quicktime, even. You gotta ask it to open them for you, but they run fine. MacVCD also works ...

      http://www.mireth.com/pub/mxme.html ... but costs $20.

      Or is there some other problem that I am unaware of?

    6. Re:Big fan of OSX, but... by underwhelm · · Score: 2

      I guess I'm looking for support from Apple on this (read: free). I understand if Apple doesn't see this as critical system software, like they do the DVD player... Like I said, it's not a big deal because I use my PC for all my DVD viewing anyway, I'll just continue to use it for VCDs too.

      The Encore DXR-2 pumps all MPEG video out to my TV anyway.

      --

      I don't need large brains to have a good time.

    7. Re:Big fan of OSX, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yet another shining example of what is keeping me from switching to a Mac: the users.

    8. Re:Big fan of OSX, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're willing to judge the entire Mac community
      on the comment of one user then don't convert too the light side.
      I understand his reaction .....how the hell do we know that he's a troll,
      it could just be more fud and that fud is saying that OS X can't which we know is a bunch of bull.

    9. Re:Big fan of OSX, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Apple supplies a Quicktime MPEG 2 component from the Apple Store for $19. Won't that enable VCD playback through quicktime?

    10. Re:Big fan of OSX, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And people accuse Microsoft of being greedy. At least WMP gives support for every format it can for free. Apple is charging you $20 for a friggin plugin.

    11. Re:Big fan of OSX, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MS Charges for a DVD Decoder and The Mp3 Encoder.

      FUCKIN NEWBIEZ

    12. Re:Big fan of OSX, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microsoft doesn't provide the DVD decoder. If you have WinDVD or some other decoder installed then you can use WMP to watch DVDs. Also the WMA encoder is free.

    13. Re:Big fan of OSX, but... by Erik+K.+Veland · · Score: 1
      I know you're probably just a troll, but this is a specialized plugin for people who need it. Mostly just DVD-content editors. The price is actually very low for something like this (that is probably costing Apple money). CinemaTools which may as well be looked upon as a simple plugin for FCP, costs the same as FCP itself, $999.

      Everyone else can watch unrestricted VCD and DVD through VideoLANClient.

      --
      "I tend to think of OS X as Linux with QA and Taste", James Gosling, creator of Java
  19. Cupertino, we have a problem! by jki · · Score: 1, Funny
    Age of Child and Typical Language Development:

    60 months:
    - Can use many descriptive words spontaneously-both adjectives and adverbs
    - Knows common opposites: big-little, hard-soft, heave-light, etc
    - Has number concepts of 4 or more
    - Can count to ten
    - Speech should be completely intelligible, in spite of articulation problems

    Now, a simple guestion: how is Apple going to handle the immense problem with increasing version numbers....11 is not very far anymore :)

    1. Re:Cupertino, we have a problem! by GigsVT · · Score: 1

      Knows common opposites: big-little,

      They still havn't mastered this part, and switched their byte ordering to the way the rest of the world does it. :)

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    2. Re:Cupertino, we have a problem! by binaryDigit · · Score: 2

      They'll pull a Sun and change the name of the OS and version numbers. So Sun went from just SunOS to SunOS 5.x/Solaris 2.x/Solaris X. It's just a matter of time before Apple goes changes MacOS to iOS and starts the version numbers back at 1 (or in a Micro$oft like move, start them at 3). So MacOS 11 will become iOS/1.

      Of course they could always do another M$ move and just rename it to MacOS'03.

    3. Re:Cupertino, we have a problem! by ivan256 · · Score: 2

      MacOS X version 2
      MacOS X version 3
      .
      .
      .
      MacOS X version 8

      And so on. Wasn't so hard, now was it? It won't annoy me as much as advertising that uses three single word "sentences" that are also supposed to go together, either. Man, those piss me off.

    4. Re:Cupertino, we have a problem! by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is such a dead horse. The name of the operating system is "Mac OS X." That's the brand name. The version number is currently 10.2.2. When enough time has passed, the version number will be 11.something. At that time, the full name and version of the OS will be "Mac OS X 11.something."

      It's really not that hard to wrap your head around this idea, y'all. It's not necessary to make a lot of noise about it every single time OS X comes up on Slashdot.

      --

      I write in my journal
    5. Re:Cupertino, we have a problem! by porkchop_d_clown · · Score: 2

      So, Intel is the rest of the world, then?

      I'm sure Sun and MIPS will be surprised.

    6. Re:Cupertino, we have a problem! by Darren_Duncan · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Now, a simple guestion: how is Apple going to handle the immense problem with increasing version numbers....11 is not very far anymore :)
      I think they are already taking care of the problem by using 10.X increments rather than X.0 increments. For example, they used 10.2 Jaguar rather than 11.0 Jaguar. People complain about having to pay for a point release, while Jaguar is a major upgrade. The only real reason that Apple has called it 10.2 is for branding; they want to keep using "X" as long as possible.
    7. Re:Cupertino, we have a problem! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      It's just a matter of time before Apple goes changes MacOS to iOS and starts the version numbers back at 1 (or in a Micro$oft like move, start them at 3). So MacOS 11 will become iOS/1.

      I think Cisco might have a problem with them naming it IOS.

    8. Re:Cupertino, we have a problem! by benedict · · Score: 2

      I think IOS is taken.

      --
      Ben "You have your mind on computers, it seems."
    9. Re:Cupertino, we have a problem! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What can you do if you have turned the system to 10?

      What if you need that little extra power, where do you go from there? -- Nowhere!
      But Apple has the solution for you. The new operating system goes to 11!

    10. Re:Cupertino, we have a problem! by LordNimon · · Score: 4, Funny

      Just let the kid watch This Is Spinal Tap and then tell him that his OS goes to 11.

      --
      And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
      To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
    11. Re:Cupertino, we have a problem! by scrod · · Score: 1

      Wow yeah, that's a great idea! I'd be positively ecstatic if I installed a new update and suddenly found that all my binary documents came up as gibberish!

    12. Re:Cupertino, we have a problem! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      With our luck, they'll call the next one
      Mac OS X 11.R4!

    13. Re:Cupertino, we have a problem! by GigsVT · · Score: 1

      Just supposed to be a joke.

      but........ If you look at number of deployed systems, you might as well say x86 is the rest of the world (other than macs), by at least a 1000/1 ratio. :)

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    14. Re:Cupertino, we have a problem! by GigsVT · · Score: 1

      Nah man, you just flip your hard disk data cable over... I thought everyone knew that!

      --
      I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
    15. Re:Cupertino, we have a problem! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, atleast they didn't start doing this when they had system 7 around, "MacOS 7-11". Might have been a few trademark infringements with that one, either that or a virus would take off with your software every day or two.

    16. Re:Cupertino, we have a problem! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about Mac OS XI?

    17. Re:Cupertino, we have a problem! by macalmaclan · · Score: 1

      er... I've never heard anybody from Apple call it Mac OS X (pron: Ex). They alway say "Mac OS ten". IIRC, Jobs called Jaguar "Mac OS ten, version ten point two." :)

    18. Re:Cupertino, we have a problem! by c13v3rm0nk3y · · Score: 2

      Well, according to Apple, the name of the OS is "Mac OS Ten". As in one more than OS 9. I think a lot of people feel the "ten" part is redundant. That is, saying "Mac OS Ten ten-dot-two-two" is kind of lame.

      Most folks I know either say "Mac OS ex ten-dot-two-two" or "Mac OS ten-dot-two-two".

      The first is, according to Apple, incorrect. The latter is more natural. The recommendation by Apple is the last choice anyone wants to make. I don't think people care that much about it, but it is unnecessarily obtuse. It might have been more clever to brand the release "Mac OS X R2.2", or something.

      Brands and labels are important. If people don't find the official way to refer to something easy, they will create their own, possibly varied, names.

      As pointed out in this thread, there is no way anyone is going to say "Mac OS Ten Eleven Twelve" or "Mac OS Ten Eleven One Two" for OS X 11.1.2. Not without deep irony, anyway.

      Then again, Apple may just be carrying on the tradition of naming UNIX releases with an unwieldy string of digits that get ignore ;)

      --
      -- clvrmnky
    19. Re:Cupertino, we have a problem! by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 2

      Yes, that's just what I said. Should I have made it explicitly clear that the "X" in "Mac OS X" is a Roman numeral? When you say it out loud, it's pronounced "Mac oh-ess ten." I just sort of assumed that everybody on Slashdot was familiar with the concept of Roman numerals. Maybe that was going too far, based on some of the replies I've gotten.

      --

      I write in my journal
    20. Re:Cupertino, we have a problem! by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 2

      Well, according to Apple, the name of the OS is "Mac OS Ten". As in one more than OS 9.

      Wrong. The name of the OS is "Mac OS X," which is pronounced "Mac OS Ten" because "X" is a Roman numeral. This is absolutely not "one more than OS 9." Why is this important?

      Years ago, it was decided that Intel couldn't have a trademark on the expansion "80x86" or any integer x. They had "80286," "80386," and "80486," but they couldn't trademark those names, because they're just a sequential numbering. So Intel came up with an actual name-- as opposed to a number-- for their next major CPU release: Pentium. Ever since, we've had names-- trademarked names, protected by law-- for Intel's CPUs.

      So the actual trademarked brand name of the operating system is "Mac OS X," with "X" being the Roman numeral for 10. That's not "as in one more than OS 9," because that would make it a serial number sequence and invalidate Apple's trademark claim.

      The name of the operating system is separate and distinct from its version number. The name of the "classic" Mac operating system was simply "Mac OS." It had a version number, so the whole name would be "Mac OS 9.2.2," or simply "Mac OS 9" for short. Or even "OS 9" for shorter, but that was only acceptable in informal situations where everybody understood what you meant.

      The name of this operating system is "Mac OS X," and its version number is (currently) 10.2.2. So if you want to say it all out loud and not be wrong, you say, "Mac OS X 10.2.2." And yeah, smart ass, the "X" is a numeral, so it's pronounced "ten."

      If this is too complicated for you to understand, or if it just offends your sensibilities in some undefinable way, just keep calling it "Jaguar." That's a perfectly good name for it too. Either way, shut up about it, okay? If you continue to protest that you're unable to grasp this simple idea, you're going to start looking like an idiot. Just some friendly advice.

      --

      I write in my journal
    21. Re:Cupertino, we have a problem! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you an idoit? The name is not "OS X" pronounced "OS EX". it is "OS 10" pronounced "OS TEN" ie roman numeral X. Idiot.

    22. Re:Cupertino, we have a problem! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have no idea why I'm telling you this but, uh, he says 'dot', not 'point'. ;)

    23. Re:Cupertino, we have a problem! by misfit13b · · Score: 1
      If this is too complicated for you to understand, or if it just offends your sensibilities in some undefinable way, just keep calling it "Jaguar."

      Now, is that pronounced "jag-wahr" or "jag-yew-are"?

      ;^)

    24. Re:Cupertino, we have a problem! by c13v3rm0nk3y · · Score: 2

      "The Twirlip of the Mists doth protest too much, methinks."

      Look, all you have to do is state your case. You don't have to get your knickers all in a twist. I, in fact, have never really given this all that much thought and don't really give a shit. You'll notice I haven't, in fact, been "protesting" about this at all. I posted exactly one reply to a single thread. Perhaps you have me confused with someone else.

      And how have I been a smart-ass? Show me anywhere in my single reply where I was difficult or name calling or otherwise disrespectful? Now check your post. I'd be tempted to say that someone around here is acting the ass, and it sure isn't me.

      Since you didn't state your sources, we only have your word to go on about the Intel issue. Assuming you are correct, you have made a compelling case (however, I'm not convinced that "Mac OS" itself could not have been enough of a trademark without having to rebrand). However, It's pretty clear that regardless of what Apple intended, there is enough semantic confusion to warrant criticism. Which was, in fact, the crux of my posting.

      If you can't stand someone having an opinion about something, however misinformed that opinion may be, you are in the wrong place. If the slightest disagreement sends you off into vitriol and name-calling, perhaps you should reconsider how you spend your time here.

      Install a sense of humour, willya. You are taking all this much too seriously.

      --
      -- clvrmnky
  20. Parent is troll... by wirelessbuzzers · · Score: 3, Funny

    ... but I'll bite anyway.

    I work for Apple's East division, there is no such thing as 10.2.2.

    That's funny... I just installed it...

    When did we release 10.2.1 ?

    09/18/02, according to Apple.

    --
    I hereby place the above post in the public domain.
  21. jumping desktop icons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    did they fix the bug yet where putting an icon on the very left edge of the screen makes all the other icons jump to the right? Very annoying!!

    1. Re:jumping desktop icons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, damn you... I just tried :(

  22. Re:APPLE FOR LUSERS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I see you are publishing a new book intended to help Windows users transition to Apple technologies? When will you release it?

  23. Well, I hope... by andfarm · · Score: 2
    ...that they've fixed the NSPDFRep bug that made LaTeX documents print out incorrectly.

    If you've got LaTeX installed, you can test this with
    \documentclass{article}\usepackage{amsmath} \begin{document}$$\left(\dfrac{\sqrt{2}}{2}\right) $$\end{document}
    and see the broken parentheses under high magnifications.

    --

    TANSTAAFI: There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free iPod.

    1. Re:Well, I hope... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      latex test.tex /usr/local/teTeX/bin/powerpc-apple-darwin-current/ dvips -R -u +psfonts.map -u +pdftex.map -u +Ttbbold.map -o test.ps test.dvi

      ps2pdf test.ps

      open test.pdf

      Looks fantastical at any magnification. Perhaps you have misconfigured your latex distribution.

    2. Re:Well, I hope... by rampant+mac · · Score: 1
      Ya know, is is fucking possible for you geeks to spell something without multiple capital letters?

      LaTeX
      OpenBSD
      NetBSD
      FreeBSD
      MySQL
      MPlayer

      Flame away... Err... FLaMe away...

      --
      I like big butts and I cannot lie.
    3. Re:Well, I hope... by andfarm · · Score: 1
      Zoom in to about 800%, scroll the parens off screen vertically, then bring them back.

      Or just print the thing. It's a little bit transient, I admit, but I've found that (1) Acrobat views and prints the generated PDFs correctly and (2) my LaTeX distro is correctly installed; I've compared it with other known-good installations which make the exact same file.

      --

      TANSTAAFI: There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free iPod.

    4. Re:Well, I hope... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not impossible, but out of those, only MPlayer even reasonably had such a choice.

      BSD and SQL are acronyms.

      LaTeX...well, it's based on TeX, which isn't actually tee-ee-ex but tau-epsilon-chi (IIRC) and TeX is an ascii-crippled approximation...

  24. Re:Troll story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    JD,

    Stop trolling /. and get to work.

    Your Boss.

  25. What happened to the old Slashdot? by 0000+0111 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    I must be visiting the evil robotic imposter /. instead. I mean, this is a *minor* update for Mac OS X as far as I'm concerned. I would have crapped my pants two years ago if /. posted something like this just to "let me know". Must be a slow news day or something. And before you tag me as trolling just keep in mind that I've been a long time Mac user and /. reader. This stuff is getting weird around here.

    1. Re:What happened to the old Slashdot? by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Yep.

      Back in the day, the only time you'd see an Apple on the front of /. is when they came out with hardware or sued someone.

      Now I'm getting my update news here. Scary.

    2. Re:What happened to the old Slashdot? by wtmcgee · · Score: 1

      honestly, i thought that was what apple.slashdot.org was for. don't get me wrong... im a mac user and it's neat to see mac news on slashdot. but, i was kind of thinking relatively minor things like this wouldn't make the front page, just the apple.slashdot.org page.

      --
      *** For a better tommorow, change your life today ***
    3. Re:What happened to the old Slashdot? by ealar+dlanvuli · · Score: 1

      I think certain editors are trying to get everyone who still vehomelently hates apple to soften up by showing them article after article of apple geeks.

      I don't agree with this practice, it's just my theory as to why it's happening.

      --
      I live in a giant bucket.
    4. Re:What happened to the old Slashdot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're not the only one who noticed. There seems to be at least one Mac article a day around here. I've now come to EXPECT "the Mac article". I believe that this sort of payed placement is called "advertising" these days.

      Still, I'm not too bothered, anything that might promote some competition in this industry is a Good Thing, especially if alternate products are decent quality.

    5. Re:What happened to the old Slashdot? by skinfitz · · Score: 2

      At least it's moderately more important the Quicktime getting a point release. Oh wait - that made the front page too.

    6. Re:What happened to the old Slashdot? by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      i think they're just trying to justify the expense of 3 new tibooks (bought a little under a month before the 1ghz models came out). isn't this an apple.slashdot.org article? judging from the "aqua" look, i'd guess it was...

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    7. Re:What happened to the old Slashdot? by sockit2me9000 · · Score: 1

      See, I don't think this is a minor update at all. Journaling is a HUGE deal in corporate markets. This release single-handedly makes Apple a real player in the server market. There's not a deal breaker anymore. For instance, my Dad refused to install Xserves at his office until they introduced journaling. Now that they do, he now feels compelled to suggest them as a viable server system.

    8. Re:What happened to the old Slashdot? by willis · · Score: 1
      I'd be curious to see what the stats are for apple stories -- I'd bet there's been a huge uptake in interest in the last few months. If people weren't clicking, I'd doubt they'd post it...

      --

      there is no thing
      what else could you want?
    9. Re:What happened to the old Slashdot? by ealar+dlanvuli · · Score: 1

      oh no I'm not saying people aern't interested. I'm just saying the number of inane apple stories has been rather high.

      Then again this is slashdot, I can normally guess 3/5 of the top headlines before I visit each morning :)

      --
      I live in a giant bucket.
    10. Re:What happened to the old Slashdot? by browse · · Score: 1

      You wouldn't have seen stories like this on Slashdot a couple of years ago because the Mac OS was just some POS OS in those days. Now it's another UNIX distribution, arguably the largest UNIX distribution shipping today. Cool beans.

    11. Re:What happened to the old Slashdot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Two years ago MacOS wasn't Unix. Now it is, and Unix seems to be pretty popular around here. No different than stories about FreeBSD and Linux updates, really.

    12. Re:What happened to the old Slashdot? by kalidasa · · Score: 2

      Yes, back in the days before Apple discovered UNIX.

  26. Should be good. by dsanfte · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Many of us have been waiting awhile for this release. Certainly I have. Perhaps this new software will solve the stability issues many users were having with the older version.

    --
    occultae nullus est respectus musicae - originally a Greek proverb
  27. My favorites by andyring · · Score: 2, Funny
    # Addresses a potential kernel panic situation when using three video cards and more than 512 MB of RAM.

    If only I had to worry about this situation!

    # Addresses a potential issue in which an unauthorized user could log in as a deleted user.

    Glad to see Apple still on the top with security.

    # Improves Address Book compatibility with users that are already on an AIM Buddy List.

    Good, this was an issue I submitted through Developer bug reporting, glad to see it fixed!

    1. Re:My favorites by Van+Halen · · Score: 1
      ...an issue I submitted through Developer bug reporting...

      For those of us who aren't as involved with the Apple developer community, I'm curious what's the avenue for this kind of bug reporting? I've submitted several bug reports for 10.2.1 through Mac OS X feedback on the Apple website, but I seriously doubt that's the best path to the right developers within Apple. I also have my doubts as to whether these bugs have been fixed (they're pretty obscure), but I suppose I'll cross my fingers til I get home tonight and can test 10.2.2.

    2. Re:My favorites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > # Improves Address Book compatibility with users that are already on an AIM Buddy List.

      > Good, this was an issue I submitted through Developer bug reporting, glad to see it fixed!

      Thanks for telling us all. Gee, aren't you the important one - a real contributor! I bet you are real proud tonight!

      (Time to clean the gene pool again.)

  28. From the list of enhancements by underwhelm · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Improves time needed to wake some portable computers."

    Uh oh. If my TiBook wakes up any faster than it already does, it'll resume before I even open the lid. Brings a whole new meaning to the term 'race condition.'

    --

    I don't need large brains to have a good time.

    1. Re:From the list of enhancements by ealar+dlanvuli · · Score: 3, Funny

      Hypothesis: Apple laptops premptively wake from sleep mode.

      Test: Think about opening your TiBook by at the last moment divert your attention (tell your wife to yell at you sometime tomorow when your about to lift the lid or something).

      Possible results:
      1: it wakes;
      hyphothesis upheld.
      2: it doesn't wake
      Apple has surely outdone all previous innovation with this notebook that actually predicts the future.

      --
      I live in a giant bucket.
    2. Re:From the list of enhancements by underwhelm · · Score: 1
      --

      I don't need large brains to have a good time.

    3. Re:From the list of enhancements by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      4. Profit!

  29. Improved reliability by ElMiguel · · Score: 1

    Nice PR term for "bug fixes". I like it :-).

  30. It broke my XDarwin cursor by semanticgap · · Score: 1

    I use XDarwin full screen with a black background. For whatever reason now the mouse pointer is now always black, which makes it invisible on black background. What a bummer...

    1. Re:It broke my XDarwin cursor by zonker · · Score: 0

      it'll be fixed in a new xdarwin release i'm sure. however it doesn't really surprise me though...

    2. Re:It broke my XDarwin cursor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      boogers!

    3. Re:It broke my XDarwin cursor by Atva · · Score: 1

      get the latest xfree update that fixes it. VersionTracker has a link

  31. *NEW* Apple Information Service by EverDense · · Score: 2, Funny

    Apple announces purchase of the slashdot domain for announcement of OS-X update information.

    --
    http://jesus.everdense.com/
    1. Re:*NEW* Apple Information Service by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, they can't do that. Microsoft already purchased /. for leaked documents.

  32. To make everything UFS and keep things nice: by SHEENmaster · · Score: 2, Insightful

    just use Disk Copy to make a .dmg image. Mount it and install your 'HFS+ only' software to it.

    Before I erased OS X, I did this sucessfully with Bryce(now running under MoL) and Flash MX (now running under MoL).

    If I do go rackmount, it will be with Xserves, provided I can return OS X and go Linux.

    --
    You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
    1. Re:To make everything UFS and keep things nice: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are a cheeser. Plus, I'll pinch down my buttcheeks and rip your dick off (if you cum too quickly, that is).

  33. Multiple partitions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I personally have formatted a Mac with a small (20mb) HFS partition for the MacOS, and the rest for UFS for linux.

    I used Apple's own HD partitioning util, too. Its just an older version. (3.5 or something like that)

    It can still be found on the web, and will still work.

    1. Re:Multiple partitions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "UFS for Linux"

      funny, running linux an an apple UFS partition, when linux only has read support for that fs...

  34. AT LEAST I CAN SPELL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    see subject.

  35. Mac OSX by rosewood · · Score: 0, Troll

    Well, I was in the LAS advice center here on Campus (Wichita State). They had two computers, both iMacs. I beleive they said either 600mhz or 800mhz G3s but they were running MacOSX and it looked like it was the latest version. Did schools get that last big Jaguar update for free?

    Im too poor to be a macphile but seriously, browsing with one mouse button in IE was driving me fucking nuts. It took me a minute to find the button that was going to give me a context menu. Sigh. I always thought that it was just an old joke/troll but seriously, why?

    I was really wanting to see this iTunes and other iApps but alas, I had not the security access.

    1. Re:Mac OSX by ivan256 · · Score: 5, Informative

      It took me a minute to find the button that was going to give me a context menu. Sigh. I always thought that it was just an old joke/troll but seriously, why?

      Because the right-click context menu is a windows-ism, and as such, people who have never used windows don't care. In fact, if you gave them another button they wouldn't use it, much like how windows users don't care they are missing the ever-so-useful middle button.

      People who do care plug any old multi-button USB mouse into their mac and forget about it.

    2. Re:Mac OSX by phillymjs · · Score: 5, Interesting

      browsing with one mouse button in IE was driving me fucking nuts

      Okay, Mr. Power-User, then cough up $20 or whatever for a mouse with the number of buttons you need. For the millionth fucking time.

      I always thought that it was just an old joke/troll but seriously, why?

      The one-button mouse is designed to have a very clear function, so when Grandma tries to use her new iMac, she doesn't get confused. Apple performed usability testing when they were developing the Mac, to find the optimal number of buttons for the uninitiated user. The results of their testing: one. Any more than that confused people.

      You might say, "Well, that was twenty years ago, surely people are more clued in now!"

      Wrong. If I had a buck for every exchange like this I've been a part of in even the last two years, I could retire to my own private island:

      Me: "Sure, I can help you with that. I need you to right-click on [icon] and select 'Properties.'"
      Client: "I clicked on it, but it just went dark. Where is this 'properties' thing?"
      Me: "Did you right-click on it, or just click on it?"
      Client: "What do you mean, 'right-click?'"
      Me: "Right-click, as in, click the right mouse button."
      Client (incredulously): "You mean, it does something different???"

      My point: Some people STILL find multiple mouse buttons confusing. Since Apple is marketing in large part to people who are confused/frustrated/confounded by Windows, it makes sense to include an unambiguous mouse.

      Most people who want a mouse with more functionality either right from the start or after they get up to speed with the Mac will purchse one, and put the Apple one in a drawer somewhere. Those who don't post on /., bitching about how a multi-button mouse still isn't included with Macs.

      ~Philly

    3. Re:Mac OSX by El+Neepo · · Score: 1

      I have a two button USB scroll mouse and the right click opens the context menus just like I would expect them to as a former windows user.

    4. Re:Mac OSX by dhovis · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Im too poor to be a macphile but seriously, browsing with one mouse button in IE was driving me fucking nuts. It took me a minute to find the button that was going to give me a context menu. Sigh. I always thought that it was just an old joke/troll but seriously, why?

      Very simple... To prevent poor programming. Contextual menus should speed access to features, but is should not be the only way to access a feature. If you force developers to consider single button mice, then they must provide all options in the regular menus, as well as contextual menus.

      There are plenty of people in this world that I would not want to have to explain the difference between a right/middle/left click.

      Microsoft Powerpoint X makes this mistake on MacOS X. If you want to group objects together, the only way to do it (unless you customize your menus) is to use context menus.

      --

      --
      The internet is the greatest source of biased information in the history of mankind.

    5. Re:Mac OSX by bigredswitch · · Score: 1

      It took me a minute to find the button that was going to give me a context menu.

      Simply holding the mouse button down for a second or so brings up the context menu. It comes in handy for those one handed surfing sessions...

      --
      After about three months of relentless Willy action I reckon I'm now as good as when I was 10.
    6. Re:Mac OSX by rhombic · · Score: 1

      Now, if there was just a ~$20 way to have multiple buttons on the trackpad on the ibook/TiBook. I understand shipping desktops (esp. low-end iMacs) with a one-buttoner, but having only one button on the trackpad keeps me in linux/thinkpad mode for the apps I need to use.

      --
      1984 was supposed to be a warning, not an instruction manual.
    7. Re:Mac OSX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...unless you're surfing with Chimera...

      $#@*& Chimera... I love it - I hate it.. I love it...

    8. Re:Mac OSX by MoneyT · · Score: 2

      On the laptops it's even easier to use the keyboard to access alternate mouse functions because your hands are right there anyways. It's really not a big issue. Try it for a littel while.

      --
      T Money
      World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
    9. Re:Mac OSX by Tokerat · · Score: 4, Interesting

      A little known feature of Mac OS X is the Full Keyboard Access function - it's in the System Preferences, Keyboard pane, under the "Full Keyboard Access" tab.

      Asside from the Ctrl-Click contexual menus, you can completely control Mac OS X from the keyboard. the default behavior is for the F-Keys (F1, F2, etc) to highlight keyboard focus on various on screen elements, including any properly API-created Aqua control.

      Basically, you can run the computer almost completely without a mouse. Or CLI. With your own custom key layout if you desire. Awsome.

      Oh, and my $20 Logitech Optical mouse works great with my G4. Right-click functions as-Windows-expected. Users of OS X and above also enjoy the scroll-wheel goodness, and 10.2 even introduces the "Copy & Paste Files" concept to the Mac for the first time, availible contexualy got all those adjusting Windows users.

      Even better is my sister's Logitech Wireless Optical mouse, connected to her TiBook. $40 too expensive? Get the cord version. TiBooks have USB ports, you know.

      --
      CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
    10. Re:Mac OSX by rhombic · · Score: 1

      Cool, but for the x-windows based app I have to have running, all three mouse buttons are used for selecting, manipulating, zooming in and out, and opening context menus. All of this is going on in a 3-d space in which you have to rotate/translate both items in view, and your viewpoint.

      With a two-button scrollpad under linux, I can chord buttons 1 and 2 to give me the third button, without the "3rd button" the app is all but useless. It's not a major big deal, since I'll prolly be using a three-button external for serious fitting sessions. Just wishing I could get the functionality for those occassional emergency fitting sessions in a meeting. The cost of the mouse is irrelevant, but there are times when I need the third button without having to drag a mouse out of my bag and plug it in. If I could get three buttons to replace the one mongo button on the TiBook, the extra cost would be totally worth it.

      --
      1984 was supposed to be a warning, not an instruction manual.
    11. Re:Mac OSX by rosewood · · Score: 1, Troll

      I think you missed the whole using the computer at a lab in school.

      Id rather educate people on scary two buttons then to have to be lacking!

      I think it is a fair bitch. Like I said and the mods missed, I assumed it was just a bitching session and trollish but shit - I sit down to a Linux Box and I can right click for menus. I can do it in windows. Why the hell am I doomed to one mouse button? It really is a lacking feature on these iMacs for how much is paid for what comes out of the box.

      Just sitting down and using it, I found it lacking.

    12. Re:Mac OSX by Into+The+White · · Score: 1, Troll

      EVERY Mac user I know does the same thing upon un-boxing their new Macs: They throw out the POS Apple mouse and plug in a REAL mouse with 2+ buttons and a scroll wheel. WTF can't Apple understand that a two button mouse is EASIER to use because it doesn't require the user to memorize a bunch of arcane keyboard/mouse button combos to bring up contextual menus? OS X is even written with a two button scrollwheel mouse in mind! It's things like these that really burn me up over Apple. I'm a total Mac freak, but sometimes Apple's inane stubbornness actually hurts the functionality of macs. In the case of Apple's idiotic, totally un-ergonomic one-button mouse, it forces new Mac buyers to cough up another $50 for a REAL mouse right after taking it over a barrel on the price of their new Mac. It's not right and Apple is INSANE to keep shipping garbage like their POS mouse that everyone just throws in the trash! I'd really like to meet a Mac user who LIKES Apple's one-button idiot-mouse. Such a person must be a real TEAM PLAYER, the sort who regurgitate all the marketing blabber from www.apple.com as if it's gospel and base friendships and relationships on computer platform orientation.

      --
      "If you're half-evil, nothing soothes you more than to think the person you are opposed to is totally evil." N. Mailer
    13. Re:Mac OSX by Into+The+White · · Score: 1

      Maybe instead of targeting Grandmas, Apple should aim to please the majority of Mac users by bundling a two-button scroll wheel mouse with Macs. Then the minority of users who can't understand how to operate anything but a one-button mouse can be the one's who have to cough up the extra $50 for a mouse. Why should a small minority of Mac users determine what sort of mouse gets pushed on the majority of sophisticated and intelligent Mac users? Your argument is senseless, and based on its logic we should all drive 40 mph on interstate expressways because driving any faster is too confusing and stressful to senior citizen drivers. If Apple is aiming for markets like digital video & audio recording/editing/producing, then I highly doubt that such users would have any difficulty with multi-button mice. Based on my own experience and on a British study (sorry, don't remember the link), mac users are more intelligent and more highly educated than their Wintel using counterparts, so I find it more than a little unrealistic to argue that Apple uses a one-button POS mouse because Mac users are too stupid to figure out an extra button and scroll wheel.

      --
      "If you're half-evil, nothing soothes you more than to think the person you are opposed to is totally evil." N. Mailer
    14. Re:Mac OSX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Copy & Paste Files"

      hey, I'm using a mac. So I don't copy & paste, but I drag'n'drop. That's why I don't need a second mouse button. Why open a context menu, if I can have the same function without opening a menu and selecting options?

    15. Re:Mac OSX by Tokerat · · Score: 2

      Ahhh, yes under XDarwin or Linux is a different story...I was under the impresion that you meant you'd rather use your Linux machine (well actually, you would ;-) )...In an emergency though, this would be nice to have. I do remember under LinuxPPC I had XFree86 configured so that F1 and F2 where middle- and right-click respectively, but that acted as the buttons themselves, i.e. I didn't have to click the mouse button as well, the FKey acted as a click on it's own, which is a Big GUI No-No. Then again, at least the functionality was there, and Linux and X-Windows aren't exactly taylored for newbies (or at least, was to a much lesser extent in 2000).

      I'd imagine chording could be implemented under XDarwin for the Mac, but it would be up to the XFree86 developers, not Apple. Toss them a line about it, maybe they'll throw it into the next release (and I'd actually start using it again ;-) )

      For the really bold, how about modding an iBook/TiBook to have three buttons? Lots of close-call mobo soddering, and a bit of Dremel work I'd imagine. THAT would be impressive.

      --
      CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
    16. Re:Mac OSX by lemkebeth · · Score: 2

      You wrote:

      EVERY Mac user I know does the same thing upon un-boxing their new Macs: They throw out the POS Apple mouse and plug in a REAL mouse with 2+ buttons and a scroll wheel.

      Says you. I'm a Mac user myself and know many others and that is not he case except for the Power User crowd.

    17. Re:Mac OSX by lemkebeth · · Score: 3, Informative

      I have used XFee86 on Darwin (not rootless) and there is a simulated keybinding for the other mouse button that you can turn on.

      I'm not at that machine right now so, I don't remember what the command line arguments were that turned it on.

    18. Re:Mac OSX by lemkebeth · · Score: 2

      You wrote:

      Maybe instead of targeting Grandmas, Apple should aim to please the majority of Mac users by bundling a two-button scroll wheel mouse with Macs.

      I'm afraid to tell you this but, the majority of Mac users use single button mice. It is the power user that uses two button mice.

    19. Re:Mac OSX by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 2
      Because the right-click context menu is a windows-ism, and as such, people who have never used windows don't care. In fact, if you gave them another button they wouldn't use it, much like how windows users don't care they are missing the ever-so-useful middle button.

      How many people have used a computer but never, ever used Windows (or Linux, or RISC OS, or ....) ?

      And if it's a Windowsism, why do Mac apps have context menus at all?

    20. Re:Mac OSX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Every single mod (or as I suspect, admin) can suck my dick

      I go and I use an iMac

      I did not like it

      Why did I not like it?

      The form factor of the mouse + the one button made browsing the Language Arts and Science's advisor website a pain in the ass.

      This is the truth.

      Yet I am a troll.

      How does it relate to the topic? They issue an update, but yet they are still over looking something VERY simple. Every zealot out there is going to tell me a stroy of a study and superior UI and how there is always the keyboard and and and... it still does not change the fact that its something that should change.

      And if I hear one more person say buy a different mouse, im going to shoot them.

      Before you reply and before you mod, the the FUCKING POST

    21. Re:Mac OSX by rosewood · · Score: 2

      Aparently we can not discuss this on the apple slashdot realm with out being told we are trolling

      What bullshit.

    22. Re:Mac OSX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Before you reply and before you mod, the the FUCKING POST"

      Are you sure you would actually be able to use to mouse buttons at the same time? You can't even construct a sentence.

      Shit, the anti-Mac zealots are getting as bad as the pro-Mac zealots. "I go and I use an iMac" Go and use a book on grammar, weazel-bot.

    23. Re:Mac OSX by ivan256 · · Score: 2

      EVERY Mac user I know does the same thing upon un-boxing their new Macs

      All you've demonstarated is that you know a very small portion of the mac user community. Most mac users use the included mouse. It's no harder to hold down the option key then it is to right click, and there's no memorization invloved. Did you have to memorize the right mouse button?

      OS X is even written with a two button scrollwheel mouse in mind!

      Really? I don't see how you mean. I have a mac with a three button scrollwheel mouse (I *HATE* scrollwheels, though), and the only time I use a button other then the left one is in Microsoft software.

    24. Re:Mac OSX by ivan256 · · Score: 1

      How many people have used a computer but never, ever used Windows

      That is not entirely the point. What matters is which system they used first. A significant percentage of computer users used a Mac before Windows.

      And if it's a Windowsism, why do Mac apps have context menus at all?

      Because alot of mac software is written by microsoft, and the context menu was brought to the mac with it. Pre OSX, context menus were an OS extension. They weren't part of the system. Also, apple is trying to get people to switch, so they want windows users to be comfortable on the new platform.

      I don't know what your issue is. Most mac users use and enjoy the one button mouse. For everybody else, you can spend an additional $5 for another button.

    25. Re:Mac OSX by rhombic · · Score: 1

      No, I'd much rather dump the thinkanchor and go with a tibook, and have the budget for it. Open office is great, but the BD types love to embed seven trillion excel spreadsheets inside of powerpoint presentations and word documents that drive openoffice nuts. So I reboot into windows to do that stuff, and then back into linux for fitting. If I could do both without rebooting, it'd be wonderful. It sounds like it may be doable; time to re-investigate.

      --
      1984 was supposed to be a warning, not an instruction manual.
    26. Re:Mac OSX by Tokerat · · Score: 2

      That's fine. I do that too.

      But if a Mac (or any computer system) doesn't strive to be versitile, what good is it?

      The great thing about the Mac is the same thing that makes Perl hated by many: TMTOWTDI: There's More Than One Way To Do It.

      --
      CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
    27. Re:Mac OSX by Tokerat · · Score: 2

      I've never tried another office suite on the Mac, but I warn you: if you decide to go directly with Microsoft Office, it carries a hefty pricetag, and sometimes files that move from Mac to Windows Office and back have problems (especially with graphics on Word documents, it's what's kept me from handing in any lab reports in my Digital Circuits class so far this semester, between a non-working printer here and Windows machines at school).

      Ahhh Microsoft Office: A format so odd, even Microsoft THEMSELVES can't read it.

      --
      CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
    28. Re:Mac OSX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm a power user and I could give a shit about how many buttons are on my mouse, one, two, three, four... it's all good.

  36. two halves and a third! by simpl3x · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    at least osx is getting adopted! they used to only have a 3% market share. or, perhaps this is another example of nobody using or reading what they are commenting on. for me it's fast enough, though of course it could be more speedy. i don't expect this to happen until either the g5 or 970 ships... so, until then, hey it works.

  37. How to enable journaling (simple howto) by geek · · Score: 4, Informative

    enter the terminal.app and type:

    diskutil

    You'll get a list of diskutil options, two of them are "enableJounal" and "disableJournal".

    Happy hunting

    -todd

    1. Re:How to enable journaling (simple howto) by Hadlock · · Score: 2
      /dev/disk0
      #: type name size identifier
      0: Apple_partition_scheme *18.6 GB disk0
      1: Apple_partition_map 31.5 KB disk0s1
      2: Apple_HFS Macintosh 18.6 GB disk0s2

      /dev/disk1
      #: type name size identifier
      0: Apple_partition_scheme *93.2 GB disk1
      1: Apple_partition_map 31.5 KB disk1s1
      2: Apple_HFS Hadlock 92.5 GB disk1s2
      3: Apple_HFS Documents 644.9 MB disk1s3


      so what is the proper "Usage: diskutil [enableJournal|disableJournal] [Mount Point|Disk Identifier|Device Node]" command line to enable journaling on "Hadlock"? i already got "Macintosh" working, but journaling is much more useful on a firewire drive (Hadlock/Documents) prone to accidental unplugging...
      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    2. Re:How to enable journaling (simple howto) by geek · · Score: 2

      sudo diskutil enableJournal / &

  38. Thank you. by underwhelm · · Score: 2

    Last time I checked on the status of that project it wasn't ready. Thanks for bringing it to my attention again.

    VideoLAN.

    --

    I don't need large brains to have a good time.

    1. Re:Thank you. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      VideoLan is more than ready.
      Plays: S/VCD, Mpeg, DiVX

      Also, for VCD authoring in OSX, checkout:
      Toast (burns .bin)
      VCD Builder (still pics and Mpegs to VCD)
      MissingMediaBurner (SVCD)

  39. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  40. That is correct by Nexus7 · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    Interesting that Apple and OSX are the antitheses of everything Linux. Not the same
    1. Development model - obvious
    2. Costs of buying - obvious
    3. Target audience - Linux (and BSD?) has been about doing more with less - how to get over BIOS restrictions on old PCs, run enterprise-level systems on inexpensive hardware; Apple's been about people who will pay for glitz
    4. Freedom - IBM, unlike Apple, is almost evangelizing Linux, they don't even hide behind euphemisms like 'open-source'. The motivation of free, or at least open source, software is as important to Linux software as the utility itself, Because given the former, the latter will soon follow. Apple? That little song and dance about their derivative license? Yeah, leech off free software.
    5. Glitz - If we wanted glitz, we'd stick to Windows. But if we want 4 different journaling FS we know what OS to pick.

    OSX gives some of what Linux's had all along. They'll find it hard to catch up with the evolutionary pace of Linux. But just the same, some people will pay extra for glitz, even if it means supporting a company that used UNIX to save itself and didn't even bother to give something back.

    1. Re:That is correct by bnenning · · Score: 5, Insightful
      That little song and dance about their derivative license? Yeah, leech off free software.


      Bull. Apple has released far more of their code than they had to (zero). And it's not all modifications to existing software either, quite a bit was written from scratch.


      OSX gives some of what Linux's had all along.


      More accurately, OS X gives what Linux has been trying to achieve for years: a desktop OS usable by non-geeks.

      --
      How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
    2. Re:That is correct by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hrmm...

      Can't we all just... get along?

      Me, I bought an Apple because they offered a 6lb portable with a beautiful 15" widescreen display and double the battery life of any comparable x86 laptop...

      ...not because it was 'glitzy'

      Thanks for insulting me with a wide dealt from your L00nix broadsword there, Palladin...

      Sheesh... some of you guys make me feel truly ashamed to be a OSS developer........

    3. Re:That is correct by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They'll find it hard to catch up with the evolutionary pace of Linux.

      Umm...evolution is slow . Case in point, your very self. Consider that you are the product of billions of years of evolution. Take a moment to think about that fact. I myself find that very depressing. After four and some billion years, you are considered one of the best that evolution has come up with.

    4. Re:That is correct by Nexus7 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      I guesss it'd be too much to expect the product of billions of years of evolution such as youeself to understand the contraction of "pace of evolution".

      Apart from that, the other responses in this thread...
      - Apple gave Linux Darwin?!??
      Really, which distro runs Darwin?
      - Rendezvous?!??
      Clearly something so useful it isn't in dselect's 6000+ packages
      - OSX gives Linux credibility?!??
      Linux,its developers, and support channels give Linux credibility. Don't see Apple among these.

      Pretty weak, BTW, not responding to my major points in a substantial way.

    5. Re:That is correct by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not only that but Linux and *BSD run on far better (and way cheaper) hardware.

      I mean, dammit, Xeons are friggin cheap as hell now. A set of quad 2 Ghz Xeons is right about $800. A 2 Ghz Quad Xeon machine will absolutely trash ANY Apple machine out there, and for half the price of a low end Apple... hahaha... Apple... pfftf, as posted in other threads: It's all glitz and no guts.

      And yes, I will take my quad Xeon machine against any Apple you can find. _ANY_ Apple machine. Bring it on.

    6. Re:That is correct by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sheesh... some of you guys make me feel truly ashamed to be a OSS developer........

      Don't feel to bad, I'm willing to bet he's never writen a line of code in his life.

    7. Re:That is correct by KH2002 · · Score: 1

      Send me an email when you can run Photoshop, Final Cut Pro, After Effects, and (err) MS Office on that machine.

      That's when I'll buy one too.

    8. Re:That is correct by jbloggs · · Score: 0

      besides having an open media streaming server (which is quite a package to be giving away for free), they've given many patches back to the community especially for gcc (huge amounts of work done for the ppc chip)

    9. Re:That is correct by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, there are some parts of the system that Apple did have to release their changes to. The most significant being GCC, to which Apple has made lots of changes (including non-trivial improvements, such as precompiled headers), and which Apple depends on quite heavily.

    10. Re:That is correct by tim_bissell · · Score: 1

      Open Source != Linux

      OSX has taken nothing from Linux, so why should it give anything back to Linux. It has taken plenty from other GPL and Open Sources, and has given back - updates to GCC/GDB, The entire Darwin OS, Rendezvous and the Streaming Server.

      There is no sense in responding to your points because your points are nonsense.

  41. W00t! by Squidgee · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Haha, I'm so excited. I can get a real JFS (No, Suzy, Window's JFS isn't a -true- JFS; it doesn't let you repair any changes).

    Now to wait until all 24.4megs download on my horrid connection (24.0kbps right now!). Wow, I think the download status bar just twitched!

  42. I hope they fixed WINS by dirkdidit · · Score: 2, Informative

    Apple claims CIFS compatibility, but they horribly broke WINS in their Samba implementation. If you add a WINS server you can't browse across subnets. All you can see is the WINS server itself. If you remove WINS you can browse your local subnet normally.

    For some reason, I seem to be the only person who cares about this. I have never seen it mentioned and nobody responds when I post about it. My local Apple Tech rep didn't even know aout it. I did find it documented in this technote.

    1. Re:I hope they fixed WINS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's that god damned Harry Potter. That makes people do crazy stuff.

  43. Right-Clicking by Slur · · Score: 3, Informative

    Control-click does the right mouse button thing on Mac OS X. Of course if you have your own 2-button USB mouse you can hook it up to any USB Mac and use it with Mac OS X. Wheels work too.

    Of course Apple only includes a 1-button mouse with their systems, but 2-button optical mice are so cheap that it's just not worth complaining about.

    Odd that Apple doesn't sell their own 2-button mouse, though. It's almost as if Apple is trying to help hardware manufacturers get business from Mac users. What could be the advantage of that?

    --
    -- thinkyhead software and media
    1. Re:Right-Clicking by mbbac · · Score: 1
      Odd that Apple doesn't sell their own 2-button mouse, though. It's almost as if Apple is trying to help hardware manufacturers get business from Mac users. What could be the advantage of that?
      A healthy platform?
      --

      mbbac

  44. here. by netsrek · · Score: 4, Informative

    After signing up for a free ADC account at the ADC site, submit them here.

    --

    i don't read slashdot anymore.
    1. Re:here. by Pinky · · Score: 1

      Nope.. No bug reports for you Mr. Free Developer. In order to submit bug reports you need to pay apple some money. You must pay before you can sumit bugs. Isn't that a great idea. Makes a whole lot of sense to me, I can tell you.

    2. Re:here. by commodoresloat · · Score: 2

      Ummmm, did you even read the parent post? Particularly the part about registering for free?

    3. Re:here. by andyring · · Score: 1

      Ummm, no. As the original poster of that comment, I only have the free ADC membership and I can go through those channels to report bugs. It's all through their web site. Works well, you generally get an email back from Apple with a bug ID and it's status and a way to check it's status. Both bugs I submitted were known issues, but it was nice to know they were working on them.

      -andy

    4. Re:here. by dmarcoot · · Score: 1

      you can submit bug reports two places and its free you ignorant dipshit.

      http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/
      http://di scussions.info.apple.com/

  45. Darwin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Darwin was given back, along with something *nux could never do on its own:
    Major credibility as a desktop OS[s].

    Without Apple, not a single Joe America would take a second glance at Linux for their desktop, unless Walmart was sold out of everything else.

    Now that Mac OS X has been released, people are seeing that "Hey, this stuff could be for me", and giving it serious consideration.

  46. MOD PARENT DOWN by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This should be -1 redundant.

    Karma Whore.

  47. performance by linuxpng · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I know apple clearly states that you are going to take a 10 to 15 percent disk performance hit when enabling the journal. I'm not sure about everyone else, but with the update and the journal everything seems even faster than 10.2.1. Anyone have similar experiences? I'm launching apps and just generally messing around. I've noticed that photoshop 7 loads in about 7 seconds as opposed to the 13 that it used to as well. Could be imagining it...

    1. Re:performance by SoupIsGoodFood_42 · · Score: 2

      I think it slower write speed. Not slower over all.

    2. Re:performance by geek · · Score: 2

      My system seems a tad faster but i'm sure that has more to do with the prebinding the update did than anything else. I also always make sure to repair the disk permissions after I install something major, you can do that in the disk utility.

      My system doesn't boot faster or anything. Overall it's probably about the same. It is afterall just a point release.

  48. What about Rendezvous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You forgot that they gave Rendezvous (ZeroKonf) back. How do you explain that?
    Get the facts before you speak .

  49. RAID by MrChuck · · Score: 5, Informative
    Hmmm, software raid ain't cutting it and ain't available for RAID 5 (and dearies, RAID 5 is out there, big time - a big win for my friend putting up about a terrabyte/week for their web server farm).

    What to do, what to do? /me strokes beard. Hey! How about using "A HARDWARE RAID!"

    Why waste your CPU cycles calculating stuff when you can have a dedicated processor taking care of your storage issues?

    Call your nearby raid vendor and get a box in. It speaks SCSI, it gives you lots of bonuses. Me? For high performance RAID at a decent price (too much for hobbyists and home users, don't waste your time), try these guys. Just a personal favorite, I'm not part of their company, just a customer.

    Why hardware RAID? When your MoBo/CPU/Disk dies and you can't get that software RAID reconfigured, you unplug the hardware RAID, plug it into a new machine and just go.

    When you want real speed, those baydel guys have a screaming, mirrored RAM cache so you get to write at 160MB/s.

    Jeez, you put all that money into your server and network connections and want to cheap out by using slow IDE disks and your CPU to do all the work?

    HFS+? Yeah, I still have it for my Mac Classic II on an 80MB drive.
    THanks, I'll use FFS with softupdates or ReiserFS (or XFS mmmmmm) on my real volumes.

    1. Re:RAID by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As long as your creaming your pants over 160 MB/s drive performance, check out this link:

      http://www.apple.com/xserve/storage.html

      To see why an XServe gets 266 MB/s drive performance using plain old IDE HDs. Oh, and that's HFS+. Learn to keep your mouth shut and your fingers at rest when you don't know what you're blowing on about, and maybe you won't look like such an ass.

    2. Re:RAID by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please. Baydel hasn't made anything worth buying since 1996. You're better off going with somebody like Chaparral, at least their shit is priced like it's shit. With Baydel, you buy shit and pay top dollar for it.

      Chaparral will sell you 1.8 TB of RAID for 20,000 united states dollars. Best price around. It's absolute crap, but you can buy a ton of it and run lots of spares.

    3. Re:RAID by kb7oeb · · Score: 1

      Your Classic II wouldn't support HFS+, only the older HFS >>>HFS+? Yeah, I still have it for my Mac Classic II on an 80MB drive.

  50. For those of you that can't wait to install... by rworne · · Score: 5, Informative
    ssh (or telnet if you are daring) into your box:

    %su
    password:<enter password>
    %softwareupdate 3404

    (software update progress occurs)

    %reboot

    You are now updated to 10.2.2

    --
    I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
    1. Re:For those of you that can't wait to install... by Van+Halen · · Score: 1
      Worked great on my QuickSilver, not so great on the iBook. The iBook got a bus error 74% into the install. After that point, it wouldn't recognize 3404 as a valid update name and I couldn't find any way to force it to re-update (and the softwareupdate man page seems to be gone from Jaguar, phooey!).

      Since I did the 10.2.2 and the most recent QuickTime update at the same time, I'm hoping 74% was where it finished 10.2.2 and tried to start QuickTime. Successive tries on the QuickTime update failed with a segfault - I found a log complaining about a different running Framework version - maybe installing 10.2.2 first messed that up? I rebooted and installed the QuickTime update no problem.

      So now the question is, do I trust that the update was ok and leave it? Or do I assume something's probably screwed up, backup my data and reinstall Jaguar from scratch? I generally like to be paranoid about this stuff, but it's such a pain. Decisions, decisions. I'm still at work (command-line softwareupdate over ssh rocks, usually!) so I can't tell if the machine really seems ok other than it lets me ssh in still.

      Fun!

    2. Re:For those of you that can't wait to install... by rworne · · Score: 1
      You can download the standalone installer and run that. If that fails then you will most likely need a reinstall.

      I've had an update fail (10.1.4 or 10.1.5 AFAIR) and the downloadable installer worked fine.

      You can download it here.

      --
      I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
    3. Re:For those of you that can't wait to install... by rworne · · Score: 2, Informative

      Wrong link above, sorry, the real link is here

      --
      I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
    4. Re:For those of you that can't wait to install... by SmittyTheBold · · Score: 1

      Hey! How about:

      %sudo softwareupdate 3404

      You know...the right way. =)

      --
      ± 29 dB
    5. Re:For those of you that can't wait to install... by rworne · · Score: 1

      Yes, but mine is fewer keystrokes.
      ;-)

      --
      I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
    6. Re:For those of you that can't wait to install... by SmittyTheBold · · Score: 1

      Not if root isn't enabled yet ;)

      Not that that's an issue for many of us (the /. crowd)...but your way isn't as universal.

      --
      ± 29 dB
    7. Re:For those of you that can't wait to install... by Van+Halen · · Score: 1

      Yup, thanks. I'd forgot to mention that I was planning to try that before scrapping things altogether. 2 days later and all seems well, so that's good! It just bothers me when something like a software update gets such a critical error in the middle of things - I'd hope Apple would make these as simple and bullet-proof as possible so as to avoid such situations.

  51. Windows GLITZ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    5. Glitz - If we wanted glitz, we'd stick to Windows.


    Wait...exactly what version of Windows are you thinking of? I mean, you may like blue, but isn't that taking it a bit far?

  52. Journaling? by Mister+Black · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What does journaling do for me? For average usage (email, web, etc) do I need it? Should I use it on my internal drives? FireWire drives?

    --

    You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door. There is a small mailbox here.
    1. Re:Journaling? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Young jedi you ask many question.

      Look deep into your heart - for within is the answer.

      P.S. My journaled mouse is working just nicely.

    2. Re:Journaling? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2

      Check out the journaling filesystems entry at the Wikipedia.

      In short, if you've ever experienced data loss from filesystem corruption due to a system crash (software, hardware, power), or think you might in the future, a journaling filesystem will probably save your bacon.

      If the disk fails, you're still SOL, so you should use RAID 1 too, for best results.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  53. This post is plagarized! by goombah99 · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    This post is identical to a post I put up this morning on and news leak of this. amazing that this clown copied it verbatim an posted it.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:This post is plagarized! by MoneyT · · Score: 3, Funny

      But you can't claim ownership to an idea. Information wants to be free!

      [Note to the dense: I'm not serious, but I don't care about a plagurized post either]

      --
      T Money
      World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
    2. Re:This post is plagarized! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This post is identical to a post I put up this morning on and news leak of this. amazing that this clown copied it verbatim an posted it.

    3. Re:This post is plagarized! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wish you'd provide a link before making an ass out of yourself. I'd put you on my Foes list, but your other posts are worthwhile.

      My post was completely original. I'd like to see what you thought I had copied from you.

  54. 10.2.2 - man page killer? by DiscoOnTheSide · · Score: 4, Funny

    I don't know if anyone else had this problem, but this update seems to have killed the man command in the terminal. no matter what you type now man says "invalid option -- C" did this happen to anyone else, and can anyone else give me any tips on fixing it? How shall acheive my UNIX-Guru status without my precious man pages!? I mean, I just started growing this beard and not showering :-P

    --
    Viva La Revolucion! Buy a Mac!
    1. Re:10.2.2 - man page killer? by geek · · Score: 4, Informative

      Go to disk utility and repair disk permissions. I notice everytime I run this the man pages permissions are screwed from various application installs. I dunno if that's the prob you are having but it's worth a try.

    2. Re:10.2.2 - man page killer? by DiscoOnTheSide · · Score: 1

      tried repairing permissions, still nothing. *sigh* Now what?

      --
      Viva La Revolucion! Buy a Mac!
    3. Re:10.2.2 - man page killer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you see "invalid option -- C" I suspect either man or less has been aliased. Do the following in a shell:

      % which man
      /usr/bin/man

      % which less
      /usr/bin/less

      % setenv | grep PAGER

      If either shows up as an alias or you're using another pager, you may have a crufty alias using a depricated switch in your shell startup (.cshrc, .bashrc, .tcshrc, etc.)

      I suspect you are finding some other less, since the default pager for man on my system appears less -C.
      Brett Johnson

    4. Re:10.2.2 - man page killer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey geek you IDIOT:

      "Contrariwise," continued Tweedledee, "if it was so, it might be, and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic!"

      Try to get your quotes right, you ignoramus.

    5. Re:10.2.2 - man page killer? by mithras+the+prophet · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's probably been broken for awhile but you didn't notice it. It's a common symptom if you haven't updated Fink for Jaguar. Go follow the update instructions.

      --
      four nine eighteen twenty-7 thirty-nine forty-7 fiftyeight sixty-nine seventy-9 eighty-8 one-hundred-and-nine one-twenty
    6. Re:10.2.2 - man page killer? by Have+Blue · · Score: 1, Troll

      You've got a long way to go to guru status if you haven't memorized those pages yet, n00b :P

    7. Re:10.2.2 - man page killer? by lemkebeth · · Score: 2

      It works fine on my system so, I think your system is a bit messed up.

      Does fsck find anything in single user mode?

      If not, check your paths.

      Another poster mentioned a problem with Fink. I personally, don't use Fink, I prefer to get separate packages or archives. Still, it is worth a look.

    8. Re:10.2.2 - man page killer? by benh57 · · Score: 2

      You need to perform the fink 10.2 update. Apple removed the -C option in jaguar which broke fink's man wrapper. (which is no longer needed in 10.2 anyway) http://fink.sourceforge.net/news/jaguar.php

    9. Re:10.2.2 - man page killer? by castanaveras · · Score: 1

      I bet you're running fink and haven't updated it to cope with Jaguar changes. Go hit their web site http://fink.sourceforge.net and follow the directions there.

  55. not giving anything back? by Bogatyr · · Score: 3, Informative

    Umm, Rendezvous?
    http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/02/09 /25/1754218.s html?tid=177

  56. so.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    how do we make a folder invisible?

    1. Re:so.... by tarth · · Score: 1

      Put a period (.) in front of the filename.

    2. Re:so.... by tarth · · Score: 1
      Using the Terminal of course... the Finder won't let you.
      mv /path/to/folder .folder
  57. Apple does not support mixed raid partitions by goombah99 · · Score: 2

    Raid sets cannot be mixed file system partions. your comment only applies to single disk partions which can be mixed. Raid sets cannot

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  58. am I the only one for whom mail sucks? by commodoresloat · · Score: 2

    I tried using Mail a few times and though I love its spam filtering capabilities, everything else is working wrong. It won't save copies of outgoing messages. It doesn't warn me if a message couldn't send. I switched to Eudora, which I used to use on OS 8, and it is great. In the free version you get all the features plus a relatively unobtrusive ad box.

  59. Opposite by _damnit_ · · Score: 2

    I find things to be the exact opposite. For low end configs, RAID 5 is best usually because of cost considerations. At the high end, RAID 1 or 0+1 is found most often because of the performance, redundancy of controllers/paths and tolerance of multiple failures. Your experience may vary though as this whitepaper explains.

    --


    _damnit_

    It's my job to freeze you. -- Logan's Run
    1. Re:Opposite by 1010011010 · · Score: 2


      RAID 5 performance, of course, sucks. Spend the dough for extra disks.

      --
      Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
  60. Journalling is good for everyone.. by goombah99 · · Score: 5, Informative
    Journaling is great and you should use it. It's good for both AOL grandmas and for big disk servers. For the average user it means if the worst happens, say you power down in the middle of a file table update, you disk does not get corrupted. this is good for every user.

    for the huge disk servers it means when you power up after a crash you dont have to do a full file system check which could take hours on say a 400GB disk.

    what is the cost? a very small amount of disk space (about 8 Megs) and about a 15% reduction in write-to-disk performance. There is no penalty for read performance.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  61. This is great and all, but... by AtariKee · · Score: 0, Troll

    ... I'm still impatiently waiting for Quartz support for older ATI chipsets. The support page that explains how to speed up OS X on older systems has been changed to say something like "We are looking into supporting older chipsets." Well, how hard is it to write drivers for these chips?

    I still think Apple is letting down a large part of its customer base by not keeping their promise of OS X support for older systems. I know that in order for them to survive, people need to buy new systems. But not all of us have a few grand to drop every year!

    C'mon Apple! Get on the ball!

    --
    "You're getting brutal, Sark. Brutal and needlessly sadistic."
    "Thank you, Master Control"
    -Sark and the MCP
    1. Re:This is great and all, but... by Drizzt+Do'Urden · · Score: 2, Informative

      It as been stated that Quartz Extreme will never run on anything else than Radeon/GeForce or better.

      As for older hardwdare support, I'm running it on a iBook SE rev1 (366Mhz with Rage Pro) and a Beige G3 (266 oc'ed to 300, Rage Pro video card added-in). Speed is "normal", everything is usable.. just a little slower than OS 9. Quicktime is fast, games (that run, no Open GL :( ) are faster than under OS 9.

      Only thing missing.. Open GL, only chipset caught by that, Rage Pro.. it's not like it was THAT bad...

    2. Re:This is great and all, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are 3d party utilities that let you do this.

    3. Re:This is great and all, but... by Drishmung · · Score: 2
      Quartz Extreme requires support for non-power-of-two textures, which is something that the older, non-Radeon, ATI GPUs do not have. AFAIK, enabling that is much more than new drivers.

      Obviously, I don't know how much QE depends on this feature, but I suspect it is fairly fundamental.

      And, as the owner of an unsupported ATI GPU, I would be extremely pleased to be proved wrong.

      --
      Protoplasm. Quiet Protoplasm. I like quiet protoplasm.
    4. Re:This is great and all, but... by The+AtomicPunk · · Score: 1

      That's simply flawed logic. OS X supports older systems just fine. You're running it, aren't you?

      You're bitching that newer hardware is faster than older hardware. WTF?

      It's not a driver issue, it's a video acceleration issue. 10.2 ran just fine on my G4 400, it just didn't get as much of a boost as it could have.

  62. I'll say one thing for Apple... by psyconaut · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...they seem to have some pretty robust update servers.....I also grab every update pretty much immediately and never have trouble getting them.

    Funny how Apple can have software update facilities that must be handing out several hundred thousand 25Mbyte updates a day.....and many websites can't even cope with the traffic Slashdot sends their way ;-)

    -psy

    1. Re:I'll say one thing for Apple... by geek · · Score: 3, Interesting

      They run it all over Akamais network, like their quicktime site.

  63. No problems here Re:10.2.2 - man page killer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just installed, man seems fine, man...

  64. Re:Any differences? by bluefusion · · Score: 1

    Sheesh, how was that last comment flamebait? I honestly can't see anything different; I want to know other people's experiences. How is that flamebait? [sigh]

  65. MAC now entering the never ending patch cycle? by ScooterPi · · Score: 0, Troll

    It seems to me that Apple is now entering the never ending patch cycle.

    With in the year they have put out about as many "patches" and security updates as M$ and the others.

  66. Case matters by goombah99 · · Score: 2
    Apple tech support warns against installing the OS onto UFS. they told me specifically that some of their own utilites will not run on UFS. this has been documented on Macosxhints as well. Thus just to install the OS, you need to have an HFS partition. Other peoples apps also sometimes rely on case sensitivity as well, as do most of my perl scripts.

    it wil be interesting to see what happens when apple broaches the unicode file name issue. Will they drop case sensitivity, or retain it for just english users.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:Case matters by BlueGecko · · Score: 2

      Apple preserves case insensitivity in Russian. That's about all I know enough to test in.

  67. Any Apple machine? by lowe0 · · Score: 1

    You find me a quad Xeon notebook then that fits in the same space, has the same battery life, and costs roughly the same as the iBook.

    You're going to look awful silly hauling around a quad Xeon notebook. You'd have to strap a reservoir/radiator on your back and watercool the laptop.

    Hey, you said any machine.... ;) Just because Apple makes some overpriced, underpowered desktops doesn't mean their laptops suck.

  68. i want speeeed... by krel · · Score: 1

    i'd really like to see some more speed increses, even system 7.5.3a3c3 seems fast compared to X. jaguar was a start, though it made my ibook 300mhz feel much slower. but back to the topic, i like this journaling file sytem business.
    blah, give me speedy, reliable-ish system 0.1 anyday
    -krel

    --
    karma: ouch!
    1. Re:i want speeeed... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you thought about buying a new system? A 300mhz ibook has got to be pretty ancient. I just got an 800Mhz ibook today for a good price and it runs OS X just fine even with 192 megs of ram. Once I get it up to 640 megs it'll fly.

    2. Re:i want speeeed... by numberthree · · Score: 1
      even system 7.5.3a3c3 seems fast compared to X
      And Atari 2600 is fast compared to an X-Box too.
      --
      This guy. This $#!%^ guy.
  69. Journaling / 10.2.2 by BobWeiner · · Score: 1

    Upgraded both the Pismo Powerbook and my Dual G4/450. No problems whatsoever, with the install, or post-install. I also enabled journaling on the dualie. I don't use iCal so I can't comment on that. However, I'll be testing iChat stability over the next few weeks.

    --
    The PC Weenies: 11 Years of Online Tech 'Too
  70. More Accurately!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Apple gives jobs to the people who wrote the open source software, writing Mach and the BSD subsystem got Avie Tevanian a great job as did Jordan Hubbard who was one of the original free BSD founders. The corporate embrace of BSD has meant good things for the people who programed it. Apple ensentially is rewarding the people who wrote the software. Also they give out their source on many things, such as Darwin Streaming Server, Rendevous, Darwin which has its own unique ways of doing things. Also Apple has what linux and most other OS's don't have and that is modern OO frameworks that greatly aid development. Why are you so down on apple, get a life. Support everyone even MS but do it based on the quality of the product.

    1. Re:More Accurately!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple only "gives" because they expect to get back more in return, as in free debugging from a community of neophytes that is goo-goo-ga-ga over open source. Or wider support for Apple's rendezvous, with cross-platform developments by third parties handed over to Apple for free. Very few people make much money off open source. I'd say it's a highly unreliable source of income. Only the half-baked variety Apple promotes makes money - for Apple employees and shareholders.

  71. 10.2.2 breaks your emacs install. by mellon · · Score: 2

    This is not a showstopper, but just a word of warning - don't do what I did and upgrade in the middle of your work day when you don't have time to fix it. :'}

    1. Re:10.2.2 breaks your emacs install. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      Emacs still works for me...

    2. Re:10.2.2 breaks your emacs install. by mellon · · Score: 2

      Yeah, I should have said, I'm talking about the version of Emacs from FSF that runs on MacOS X, not the version that Apple ships.

  72. How Did this Guy Hijack My Post? by good+soldier+svejk · · Score: 1


    Can someone explain how this guy removed my identical post of this morning? He cut and pasted my text. The only change he made was removing the word sure from the title. I guess this is one way for me to be modded higher than 5.

    --
    It is cowardly, and a betrayal of whatever it means to be a Jew, to act as a white man

    -James Baldwin
    1. Re:How Did this Guy Hijack My Post? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um, it's called copy and paste?

      Perhaps "how" wasn't quite the right word there...

    2. Re:How Did this Guy Hijack My Post? by good+soldier+svejk · · Score: 1


      I missed the fact that this is a new story. I saw his version and couldn't find mine. Just being hypertest illiterate. I'm sure he is just being helpful.

      --
      It is cowardly, and a betrayal of whatever it means to be a Jew, to act as a white man

      -James Baldwin
  73. Here's the Link to the Original by good+soldier+svejk · · Score: 1
    --
    It is cowardly, and a betrayal of whatever it means to be a Jew, to act as a white man

    -James Baldwin
  74. Re:Any differences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Mod must not have a Mac...and I agree with you... the changes besides all the good stuff that was listed did not come with the usual bad of goodies .... speed, features. Mostly bug fixes.

  75. Before you update by wickline · · Score: 2, Informative

    10.2.2 kills the moviephone search channel in sherlock.

    Before you update, control-click on the sherlock application, view package contents, look in Resources, copy the Channels directory and then paste it somewhere in your home directory before Apple stomps on it.

    Hopefully you can find a way to get the channel back in sherlock after the upgrade.

    It's too late on my machine, so I'm hoping the wife hasn't updated hers yet (I don't feel like re-installing Jaguar just get a search channel back.)

    -matt

    1. Re:Before you update by KH2002 · · Score: 1

      It didn't kill my moviephone search channel.

      No problems at all so far. Trying to decide whether (& when) to enable journalling...

    2. Re:Before you update by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      This is a just a localization stuff...

      Go to "Preferences", and check United States in "Countries". And voila, Movies, Yellow Pages, etc are back.

    3. Re:Before you update by wickline · · Score: 1

      right you are.

      Odd that the update moved me from US to UK

      -matt

  76. NO! by spitzak · · Score: 4, Interesting
    "Case insensitivity" is a user interface issue that should not be in the innards of the operating system. If a file system can treat a filename as a sequence of bytes that have no other meaning, then it can be written to be far more reliable, secure, and dependable, and easier to prove that there are no bugs.

    For the "average user" case means nothing. Grandma picks files by clicking on the little pictures and would never notice if many files had the same name. The *ONLY* use for "case insensitive" is for CLI interfaces, and it is amazing that the same people who say "Unix sucks because of case sensitive filenames" are the same ones that say "it sucks because you have to use the CLI". Hey, if you don't need a CLI, you have eliminated the only reason for case insensitive filenames! Not only that, case insensitivity actually interferes with user-friendliness in a CLI as it makes it more difficult to do really advanced things in the user program, such as spelling correction of filenames.

    1. Re:NO! by overunderunderdone · · Score: 5, Interesting

      For the "average user" case means nothing. Grandma picks files by clicking on the little pictures and would never notice if many files had the same name.

      Lets test your theory using the common scenario of doing tech support for Grandma over the phone:
      Me: "OK, Grandma open now click on the picture of a paper that says 'read me'"
      Grandma clicks on 'Read Me' - after long conversation I finally realise she opened the wrong file
      Me: "No, the OTHER file that says 'read me'"
      Grandma clicks on 'READ ME' - another long period of miscommunication follows
      Me: "OK, Grandma open the file that says 'read me' but ignore the files 'READ ME', 'Read Me', 'READ me' and 'read ME'.
      Grandma does an Ellen Feiss "hugnh???"

      The obvious advantage of case insensitivity is that it is easier for humans to talk & think about what is on a computer without confusion. Even the tech savvy may have the occasional problem with distinguishing between 'Read Me' and 'Read me'.

      case insensitivity actually interferes with user-friendliness in a CLI as it makes it more difficult to do really advanced things in the user program, such as spelling correction of filenames.

      I don't follow you, how does it make this more difficult?

    2. Re:NO! by spitzak · · Score: 2
      1. Well I challenge you to tell grandma to differentiate "readme", "read me", "readme" or "read me " (note extra spaces), or to differentiate "one" and "1", or any of a million other things that Windows/Mac file systems will happily store as different files. This is not an argument whatsoever and anybody who thinks this is an argument for case-insensitivity is an idiot.

      It makes spelling correction more difficult mostly by discouraging it's use and making it impossible to write powerful algorithims that can weigh case-sensitivity against other possible corrections. Try it some day if you don't believe me.

    3. Re:NO! by overunderunderdone · · Score: 2

      Well I challenge you to tell grandma to differentiate "readme", "read me", "readme" or "read me " (note extra spaces), or to differentiate "one" and "1", or any of a million other things that Windows/Mac file systems will happily store as different files.

      Granted you can still screw things up - though you are a little less likely to do so inadvertantly. I still don't see any advantage to doing so or adding the ability to do so in another way.

      It makes spelling correction more difficult mostly by discouraging it's use...

      I'm sorry if I'm being dense, perhaps I am missunderstanding you - But I don't see how case insensitivity discourages spelling correction. 'Rede Me" and "REDE ME" are both still misspelled (unless you are asking a medieval Englishman for advice).

      ...and making it impossible to write powerful algorithims that can weigh case-sensitivity against other possible corrections.

      There is no reason your spell checker has to be case insensitive just because the file system is. We are talking about the MacOS here which is case insensitive but also case *preserving*. You can still write your powerful algorithms weighing case sensitivity against other possible corrections. If you want to spell-check "Rede Me" but ignore "REDE ME" you can and those two files will always keep their capitisation they way you created them - you just can't put them both in the same directory.

    4. Re:NO! by spitzak · · Score: 2

      I can see lots of reasons for there to be a spelling corrector in user level programs, but I still fail to see any logical argument for putting a small subset of it into the kernel, especially when it complicates or makes impossible many hashing algorithims that a filesystem would like to use, and can allow more security bugs.

      A filesystem should assign no more meaning to the bytes used to name a file than it should assign to the bytes stored in the file. Therefore case-insensitivity, or encoding matches, or anything other than strict equality of the bits for identifying a file is wrong.

  77. OK, Now MOD PARENT UP!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I didn't think anybody would actually mod it down.

  78. CT has a Ti by djupedal · · Score: 2

    OS X literally runs in the background these days around here. Didn't you see the posts about CT moving onto a Ti?

    Giddy like a schoolgirl when updates come out :)

    What gets me is I now find myself foregoing other mac related sites for such tips... ./ seems to have the info first, so it seems natural to look here first. If CT ever abandons the Ti, we're all in for a shock when these items become 2nd page fodder.

  79. Oh, I see. Same Post, New Story, Duh... by good+soldier+svejk · · Score: 1


    The stories were essentially the same in everything but tense. He helpfully pasted my post into the new one to save me the trouble. BTW, so far the answer is no, it doesn't fix WINS.

    --
    It is cowardly, and a betrayal of whatever it means to be a Jew, to act as a white man

    -James Baldwin
  80. Inconsistent Behavior in Apple Apps by calstraycat · · Score: 2, Informative

    Overall I really like OS X, but the behavior of the bundled Apple applications is very inconsistent. Some applications, like iCal and Address Book, quit when you close the window while others like Mail, iTunes and Sherlock, continue to run when you close the window.

    Also, if an application window is minimized to the dock, clicking the application icon in the dock may expand the window (Mail, Address Book, Sherlock and others) or it may not (iChat, Preview). The hallmark of the MacOS before OS X was consistent behavior. Now it seems each application operates by a different set of rules. Bummer.

    One other pet peeve: none of the Apple applications include the keyboard shortcut for Hide Others (shift-cmd-H). Many of the third-party applications include this shortcut.

    1. Re:Inconsistent Behavior in Apple Apps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it's option-command-H, and it works just fine. If you don't like it, look for a freeware app called Show Desktop. Thanks!

    2. Re:Inconsistent Behavior in Apple Apps by calstraycat · · Score: 1

      Opps. You're right. I meant "option-command-H", but it doesn't work in the majority of the Apple applications. Thanks for the freeware tip, but I still think Apple should implement this feature natively in their own applications.

    3. Re:Inconsistent Behavior in Apple Apps by foniksonik · · Score: 2

      Try out this little freeware script... adds just the right stuff to enable hide app and hide others to the docks .plist file.

      HideFromDock

      Of course you could just do it yourself by going into the dock.app and finding the menu .plist and editing.

      --
      A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
  81. Humans are case insensitive by goombah99 · · Score: 2

    Do you label your file names in english or with binary numbers. Do you sort them alphabetically or by INODE number? I'm betting you use english. If so then there are hierarchies of linguistic preferences that do apply. Humans read english with case insensitivity, its reasonable to expect a file system to keep its files organized according to human expectations, such as alphabetical listing and case insensitivity.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:Humans are case insensitive by Hrothgar+The+Great · · Score: 2

      What difference does it make how *I* label my files? What if someone else wants to do it differently? Why should *I* be so selfish as to dictate to everyone else that not only is my way the ONLY WAY to label files?

      And what if you could allow for every user to make their own choice, WITHOUT EVEN WRITING A SINGLE LINE OF CODE? Impossible, you say? No, it's how shit works already. I, and many others, find case sensitive systems EASIER to use than case insensitive systems. And, it allows for more uniqueness in naming files. Furthermore, it requires less code and complication in the filesystem. You're not going to convince me that this should change in UNIX simply because you can't manage your files.

  82. What should I do if I have partitions? by jmordoj · · Score: 1

    If I want to enable Journaling, but my internal hard drive is partitioned in 3 (logical) disks:

    Should I just type 'enablejournal /' and that's it, or should I repeat this for every partition on my disk (like '/Volumes/***')?

    1. Re:What should I do if I have partitions? by sidb · · Score: 1

      I can't give an authoritative answer, but I already did this before reading your post, and it worked fine. It may or may not be necessary (I suspect it is), but it at least hasn't broken anything on my system.

  83. Re:Humans are case insensitive ... huh??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I beg to differ.
    Maybe English is a language that's case insensitive.
    But a lot of other languages are not.
    It may be surprising to you, but there are actually languages where the same word starting with a capital letter means something different than without.
    So, let's put it this way: English human beings might be case insensitive, but others might not.

    Easy as this.

    And all of this is not excuse for a filesystem to be limited (like HFS).
    If your userinterface cripples this for English speaking human beings like you, that should be up to the user interface.
    The filesystem/OS should be capable of differentiating upper/lower case, as they represent to different names.

  84. I wouldn't touch it. by Trillan · · Score: 1

    If it isn't announced yet, I wouldn't trust it. Considering Windows SMB support *was* announced and was a total mess, I'm not sure I'd trust software Apple didn't consider good enough to announce.

  85. number games by MacAndrew · · Score: 2

    If they go to "Mac OS X 11.12" or whatever, will they finally abandon this stupidity that "X" is supposed to be pronounced "ten"? Think about it -- "Oh, I'm running OS ten eleven twelve." You really WILL sound like a 5 y.o.!

  86. Re:Humans are case insensitive ... huh??? by darien · · Score: 2

    It may be surprising to you, but there are actually languages where the same word starting with a capital letter means something different than without.

    I was once fired from an Eastern European cleaning product company for accidentally overwriting all our Polish sales data with polish sales data.

  87. For those that don't know what Akamai is by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 5, Interesting

    They are a company that delivers content for you. You pay them to hold your stuff. However they don't just put it in a fast datacentre, they actually have little cache engines that they give to large networks (like universities). This means that if you happen to be on one of those networks, your downloads are incredably fast.

    They just did this at U of A, where I work. They shipped us 3 servers and a switch (for free) and then are helping us get them set up. The effect, when they are running, will be that any traffic bound for Akamai's network will instead get serverd from those local computers. So instead of loading down their and our internet links, they will come form a LAN connection.

    Really it's a win for all involved. We are happy because it reduces our traffic at no cost to us. They are happy because it reduces the traffic on their network. Their customers are happy because it means fast data delivery to lots of people.

  88. NO!? er NO!! by Senjaz · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You say the only use for case insensitivity is for CLI.

    Wrong.

    The whole idea is to remove any possiblity for confusion.

    If I have a picture of my pet then what's the difference in meaning between Dog and dog? They are the same I don't want the complexity of the possibility of those two files being able to exist in the same place at the same time.

    This is another reason why file extensions being part of file names is evil. Dog.jpg, dog.gif or dog.png? Surely they're all just the same picture of my dog?

    Coding case-insensitivity into a file system is a lot harder to implement than doing without it. The Macintosh filesystem and other subsequent systems have gone to lengths to include the feature for very good reasons. It reduces complexity and eliminates an area of confusion.

    It is the UNIX world that should change for the better. Do you not want Linux to succeed on the desktop? Features such as this subtly improve the user experience.

    One reason why Mac OS has been considered easier to use than Windows for years. Fundamentally they are the same, it's the many small considerations that make all the difference.

    I've seen some people in the Linux crowd really getting a handle on this which is great and I really respect what's the Red Hat team are trying to do. The Nautilus project was also a big move in the right direction.

    I also don't see how case insensitivity makes it more difficult to spell check filenames. If you'd like to explain the problem then maybe I'll be able to understand your point of view better.

    --
    Don't blame me - this .sig had steal me written all over it.
    1. Re:NO!? er NO!! by Creepy · · Score: 2

      I actually don't have any problem with case sensitive - I think there's a point where you're being too anal, and as long as opening and saving is done in the GUI without requiring typing, there shouldn't be any issues. If I save the file as Readme, I double-click it to open it and it stays Readme. Having 2 Readme files in the same place should never happen unless you accidentally save as README, but I think most people could figure that one out.

      Then again, I also have problems with people scattering README files all over the file system, with no association whatsoever (README should go in a SEPARATE folder with the app if included with the app (although a README technically shouldn't be included with the App at all), not in the Applications folder or the Desktop, unless the README is about Applications or the Desktop.

      Most installers have this right, now, but some early 10.0 installers... well, ew.

      As for extensions to filenames, they've been a part of every Apple, although hidden in a resource, and a necessity for identifying the file to the OS. For the most part, they still remain hidden. For your above example, you should see three icons for dog with different pictures to identify the image format, not a file called dog.xxx (I know it doesn't always work this way, but that's the way it should work). While this may mean little to a user (it's dog), it means something if you're sending the picture via e-mail (send me the jpg image or I can't see it on my Amiga). The user should be able to identify the different format by the icon, not the extension.

      Coding case insensitivity isn't hard, you insensitive clod (sorry, just read the polls :)
      - it just requires a bit more overhead because the core of the OS was designed for case sensitivity. It does require some careful coding for multibyte locales (you don't want to change the case for them).

      The only thing I can think of for spell checking is that capitalization checks might get confused or possibly file is stored as a different name than what you see (ala Win95/98 with the Windows~1 names)

    2. Re:NO!? er NO!! by spitzak · · Score: 2
      I do not consider "avoiding confusion" a legitimate argument. If "avoiding confusion" was a requirement for file systems then they would not allow files with different numbers of spaces in them, or substitue '1' for 'l' or 'O' for '0', or spell words incorrectly. In fact the filesystem would have to have a full AI to weigh new filenames against existing ones and decide if they are sufficiently close, and also decide whether the old or new name is correct. Now this may be a good idea, but anybody who proposes that that be in the disk driver rather than a user-level library would be laughed out of geek school. For that reason I also think that case-insensitivity is much better as a user-level library.

      If Linux is to succeed on the desktop, they have to show some initiative and design some NEW things, not copy stupid cheap "solutions" that Windows or Mac have done. How about a "save as" dialog box that includes the nice error-correction and matching that the newer shells have? That would completely eliminate any need for "case insensitive" and be much more useful for avoiding confusing filenames.

      I agree that filename extensions are evil. They are a kludgey version of a "type attribute" that is designed to be stored on systems without such attributes, but I also think an attribute like that is evil as well, unless it is just a cached result. The real solution is to use things like the Unix "file" command to find out what the data is (you then cache this in a file attribute if the command is too slow). This is the only solution that is really user friendly, the result survives any transmission of the data through the net or email or any other system, and allows the user to rename the files.

  89. Journaling Performance Hit by Mr+Bubble · · Score: 1

    It has been stated that the performance hit is 10-15% when doing disk writes.

    Wouldn't that preclude its use for video importing and editing where write time determines whether or not you drop frames?

    I would love to have the benefits of Journaling, but I am afraid of losing video quality.

    --
    "The world is a construct of forceful imagination. Those who don't know walk around in the reailties of those who do"
  90. Re:Any differences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bug fixes to QE have made a difference in speed. If you don't see it, maybe it's because you don't have it...

  91. 10.2.2 scared the hell outa me by amichalo · · Score: 1

    After updating my Ti Powerbook and heading to bed, all was well, but I awoke to a different story.

    Powering up this morning, to my horror, my screen remained black, while the HD cranked and I even heard the familiar sounds of iChat automatically going on-line. After half a dozen reboots, and removing the battery and going solo with the power cable, I am back up just as quickly as the even began, but I am worried to try to shut down or even go to sleep.

    Any others experiencing this "feature"?

    --
    I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
    1. Re:10.2.2 scared the hell outa me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yes its the screen....all you have to do is rest the system by holding down the little pin-hole size button(hold it down for 5sec On my iBook its next to the headphone jack). If that doesn't solve your problem call Apple and have them run you through the usual steps.

  92. SanDisk Flash Reader? by Offwhite98 · · Score: 1

    This should be working. I have version SDDR-05 and would like it work so I do not have to use my PC.

    SanDisk and Apple need to work on this together to get it resolved. How much work could it be to make a USB device mount so I can pull files off of it?

    --
    Brennan Stehling - http://brennan.offwhite.net/blog/
  93. VideoLan Client by numbski · · Score: 0

    It's a beautiful thing. :)

    Oh, and if you weren't dumb enough to actually SET the region in DVD Player.app, then you have region-free dvd playback. Imagine that?

    --

    Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).

  94. x.2.2 update be yankin my x11 install by crul · · Score: 1

    After the update I looked at my apps to we what broke. Sure enough, X11 mouse pointer is a big blotch now. Grrr. How can I fix this?

  95. Click-Hold by good+soldier+svejk · · Score: 1

    And if it's a Windowsism, why do Mac apps have context menus at all?
    He didn't say contextual menus were a Windowsism, he said right-click contextual menus were.

    The original poster's inability to get a contextual menu without a modifier key or second mouse button is an IE issue not an OS issue. The correct single button action is click-hold. Try it under Mozilla. You'll get the same menu you get from a right-click.
    --
    It is cowardly, and a betrayal of whatever it means to be a Jew, to act as a white man

    -James Baldwin
  96. Enabling Journaling in a partition other than / by jmordoj · · Score: 1

    So I want to enable Journaling In a Partition:

    Te comand is:

    sudo diskutil [device], wich, in thisk case, IT IS NOT /

    Wich one of this should I replace [device] with?

    Device Node: /dev/disk0s11
    Device Identifier: disk0s11
    Mount Point: /Volumes/Docs

  97. HELP! All my entourage mail is *gone* by valmont · · Score: 3, Informative
    My entourage email DB file was about 400+MB ... I have a back-up of a few months ago somewhere. It still sucks. It was that big because i had imported a couple of years' worth of e-mail. anyway.

    Last nite I ran the 10.2.2 update.

    Rebooted.

    Did a 'df' in a terminal and noticed I had a lot more hard drive space. Gone down from 83%+ full to 77% full. It was late. Didn't think much of it.

    This morning I start entourage and all my account settings, email, folders, filters, addresses are *gone*. The DB in microsoft user data was brand new from scratch. It even popped the set-up assistant.

    What did stick around was my signature and rules. Weird.

    I called apple they're supposed to get back to me today.

    Can anyone think of any issue with the new journaling file system and a big file?

    Uuuugh :( note to self. Always back-up before update.

    1. Re:HELP! All my entourage mail is *gone* by bpbond · · Score: 1

      Not to make light of your troubles, but see my prediction above:

      http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=44782& ci d=4647416

      Ten to one, I said. Should have given 100-1.

      --
      "Science is a tribute to what we can know although we are fallible" -Jacob Bronowski
    2. Re:HELP! All my entourage mail is *gone* by valmont · · Score: 2


      err whoaaa so u think the fsck process when i rebooted nuked that big-ass 400+MB file? can u give me some background?

    3. Re:HELP! All my entourage mail is *gone* by bpbond · · Score: 1

      I have no idea--sorry!--and as I said, wasn't particularly trying to make fun of your loss. It sucks. Hard to imagine why one large file would just vanish while doing the upgrade.

      Yeah, though, back up before system upgrades.

      Regards,
      B

      --
      "Science is a tribute to what we can know although we are fallible" -Jacob Bronowski
  98. Re:Any differences? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have one the older iBooks 600 and only 256ram so no I don't see it, but you enjoy it for me. :)

  99. What's wrong with Norton? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    After updating to 10.2.2. Half of the Norton SystemWorks does not work! I hope Symantec takes care of this problem soon!