Tallest Roller Coaster in the World

Coaster Art Guy writes "Cedar Point amusement park unveiled the tallest roller coaster in the world today. Top Thrill Dragster launches you from 0 to 120 MPH in 4 seconds via a hydraulic launch. The dragster looking like cars take you straight up a 420 foot tower, into a top hat element, and twists you 270 degrees straight down. All in about 20 seconds from start to finish. How about that one? Also check out the POV video here Quicktime or here Windows Media Player."

Comments

I see whjy

[neo8750]

but I don't see why they are so short i mean sure its faster but why not make the damn thing longer??

Re:I see whjy

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like you've heard that question asked a few too many times. Hmmmm??

Re:I see whjy

[moertle]

... because if it was any longer you would piss your pants ...

Re:I see whjy

[EggplantMan]

Probably because at 120 MPH you need to add 176 feet to the rollercoaster for every imperial second you want to add to the ride.

Re:I see whjy

[Anonymous Coward]

as opposed to those newfangled metric seconds?

Re:I see whjy

[EggplantMan]

The metric system may be 'new fangled' but it's superior to the imperial system in every conceivable way.

Re:I see whjy

[f.money]

you also need to consider the fact that there ain't no more land for them to build on. In case you don't know, Cedar Point is on a peninsula (the park has all the land on that peninsula) - they had to tear down some old coasters to make room for this one.

Jon,
if you're out that way, and over 21, go to Put-in-Bay

Re:I see whjy

[SpryGuy]

They most certainly did NOT have to tear down any coasters to build this one.

They got rid of a bumber cars, and moved two flat rides. That's all.

Re:I see whjy

[OSUJoe]

1. The best part of this ride will be the launch and hill. If you added anything else, they wouldn't really compare. Cedar Point already has a coaster that does a whole lot more while going really fast. They were going for a short, concentrated burst of intensity with this ride.

2. It already costs $25 million. They can't really afford to invest more than that in a single ride.

Re:I see whjy

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean piss your pants AGAIN...

Re:I see whjy

[Anonymous Coward]

bring beads.
its a far cry from Mardi Gras, but its alot more fun that looking at cornfields.

Re:I see whjy

[srmalloy]

but I don't see why they are so short i mean sure its faster but why not make the damn thing longer??

Because this type of coaster is still in its infancy. This is clearly an evolution of the Thrust Air 2000 coaster invented by S&S Sports Power, and it follows the same basic design -- a catapult launch, a 90 pitchup, a 180 pitchover to nose down, and back to the launch point, throwing in a 360 roll during the descent to heighten the thrill.

The selling points of this type of ride are the catapult launch -- instead of the long, slow crank up the lift hill, you're shot off the mark, reaching maximum speed almost immediately -- the vertical climb and dive, and the 'hang time' spent in free fall. You come out of the dive at close to the 120mph at which you entered the climb; at that speed, any of the fancy track elements you see on slower coasters would create unacceptably huge G forces on the riders -- if you look at the other 'gigacoasters', they have one or more secondary hills after the first drop to bleed some of the speed off the coaster train before they start any serious turns, and these coasters use speed and drop height as their selling points, not inversions, while the coasters that are known for their inversion count are all much slower than the gigacoasters. Top Thrill makes its mark from its height; adding more hills detracts from the purity of the single vertical hill (and the attraction of rides like SFMM's 'Superman: The Escape', which is nothing but a shot out, up, down, and back), and slowing the coaster train down enough so that inverting track elements are survivable detracts from the ride's speed. And, as another poster has pointed out, Cedar Point is running out of space to put new coasters.

Re:I see whjy

[derekb]

It's short because...

As you're having your heart attack coming down the free-fall, you won't have long to wait before you can get medical care

Re:I see whjy

[f.money]

I could've sworn they tore down (that crappy one in the middle) to make some room. but checking it out, it appears you're right - though they did tear down some other rides (that were aging).

Jon

Re:I see whjy

[jonadab]

> but I don't see why they are so short

There are two types of coasters: those designed to be enjoyable and
give you fond memories of the wonderful time you had so you come back,
and those designed for bragging rights. This is the latter type. It
is made to be the tallest and fastest, so that Cedar Point can once
again bost the tallest and fastest coaster. The Mean Streak was built
for similar reasons: they got tired of PKI being able to claim the
longest wooden coaster. (The Beast is still a much better ride than
the Mean Streak -- not that it really matters; PKI only has two or
three really good coasters, so it's not in the same league with the
Point; if it weren't so close physically it wouldn't even be
considered as a form of competition.)

> Want a longer ride? Buy another ticket

Huh? I've never heard of an amusement park charging for _each_ ride.
That's a non-issue. But you do have to stand in line, and in any
event, longer rides are known for being more enjoyable. The Magnum
is an excellent coaster that a lot of people still want to ride,
not because it was once the tallest and fastest in the world but
because the whole ride is enjoyable, not just the first hill. (The
Magnum was one of the rare coasters built for both bragging rights
_and_ memorable rider experience.)

It's more like this: want an enjoyable, memorable ride? There are
no shortage of coasters at the Point, so you won't have any trouble
finding such a ride. But one thing they didn't have (anymore) was
the tallest, steepest, fastest. And they haven't had that for too
many years; they _had_ to build a tallest-steepest-fastest before
very much longer, or their reputation would flag. You don't keep
a reputation for being the coaster capital of the world easily.
There are too many other places that want to catch up with that
(though no more than at most half a dozen places are really even
contenders, and none of them are within a day's drive).

Re:I see whjy

[TomServo]

This is, of course, assuming that the coaster is constantly going 120mph. It will only be going that fast at launch, despite what their literature says (there's no way it'll be going as fast at the bottom of the first drop as it would at the end of the launch...friction's gotta work, and it looks like it pulls out of the dive higher up than it enters the climb). Ideally, there could be another major hill (obviously not quite as high) with some overbanked turns to keep the G forces positive for a bit, and possibly just a massive helix to try to burn off some speed. Then, a set of trim brakes near the middle of the coaster, and round out the rest with some nice bunny hills and headchoppers.

You would only need 176 feet right at the very launch, it wouldn't be *super* hard to burn off a lot of the coasters speed, especially with some magnetic trim brakes. However, given that it would still be somewhat difficult, I am afraid that this is *not* the future of coaster design.

Re:I see whjy

[TomServo]

Unfortunately, Superman: TE has shown that this type of coaster may not be the greatest thing since sliced bread. S:TE is definitely not the big new thing, but it sure as heck was when it came out. However, now everyone knows that it's a one trick pony. That one trick rocks, but it's over before it even began. It's still the ride that goes higher up than any other in the park, but I think most people would prefer to ride X or Goliath over it.

I still think most people will think Millenium Force is a better coaster overall, but I also believe a *lot* of people will come to check this new guy out. I know I'd love to, but I have the feeling that if I go, I'll go for TTD, I'll stay for MF.

Which might be what they're going for...I'm not very good at marketing.

Re:I see whjy

[SpryGuy]

But not for THIS ride. The only thing they did was move the bumper cars to another park (removing them), and move some things around.

They did get rid of the old "Schwabenchen" (sp?) but that had nothing to do with making room for this coaster. They didn't tear down any coasters at all. There were three rides sitting on the footprint of this new coaster: the aforementioned bumper cars, the Troika, and the Chaos. The latter two were moved over by last year's new coaster, Wicket Twister.

Re:I see whjy

[reanjr]

2. Ummm... yeah they can. They don't usually put in a new ride every year, and at 35$ a ticket, thousands per day, and extra money from concessions, etc. (thus putting off a significant amount of the cost of operation); a rough estimate would indicate that they indeed have plenty of money to invest.

First Post

[gulfan]

And it's already down, I guess there right about that 20 second from the start to the end :)

Re:First Post

[neuroticia]

WMP, QT Low,, QT High

Those link seems to be working, even though the slashdot ones don't.

Of course, now that I just embedded those in a Slashdot page, the links are promptly dead. However, the main page still seems to function, and lets you choose the same options listed above. http://www.cedarpoint.com/public/inside_park/rides /thrill/_ttd/video/index.cfm

-Sara

Yuck, Flash.

[Anonymous Coward]

non flash front page

Re:Yuck, Flash.

[yobbo]

Ya, thanks for the non flash page, now how about the server?

First puke

[Anonymous Coward]

520 feet??? Bleah! First puke!

Re:First puke

[AntiNorm]

520 feet??? Bleah! First puke!

Being a skydiver, 520 feet is way too low an altitude for me to be freefalling from. Higher please!

Re:First puke

[CvD]

Well... there's always base jumping. 520 feet would be enough, but you wouldn't want to be doing any freefalling from there, true... :-)

Cheers from fellow skydiver.

Just what we need ;-)

[GMontag]

The dragster looking like cars take you straight up a
420 foot tower

Another 420 refrence, lol.

Re:Just what we need ;-)

[Anonymous Coward]

ROFL ROFL ROFL! 420! ROFL ROFL!

Check in to rehab, you addict.

Re:Just what we need ;-)

[Anonymous Coward]

maybe he's a truth addict?

oh shit i got a head rush!

Re:Just what we need ;-)

[geeknik]

glad you posted before me, otherwise I would have been off topic.. my karma hasn't been real good.. guess people don't like stoners

Re:Just what we need ;-)

[ZxCv]

Screw what people like or don't like...pass the bong!

Re:Just what we need ;-)

[UniverseIsADoughnut]

The only thing i can connect to 420 is a john deere tractor from the late 50's. What are you connecting it to?

Cedar Point rocks

[Flounder]

Truly an awesome coaster park, one of the best, if not the best, coaster park in the country.

This one sounds cool, but I prefer traditional style coasters.

Re:Cedar Point rocks

[bleckywelcky]

Truly an awesome coaster park, one of the best, if not the best, coaster park in the country.

Correction: the best coaster park in the world.

Re:Cedar Point rocks

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep. Cedar Point is not for kiddies, thats for sure. I hope I can go this year. I'd like to spend two days there so I can hit some of the punk rock clubs and see the nightlife too.

---
Too lazy to log in.

Re:Cedar Point rocks

[Rew190]

Actually we've got tons of kiddie rides and live entertainment stuff as well that could definitely eat up a day. Sure, our big thing is Coasters, but the park is huge and you simply can't cover everything in one day. When I go into the park on my day off with buddies, we almost plan what kind of CP experience we want. You can go in and do all the thrill rides, you can take it easy and just watch live entertainment or hit stuff such as the Skyride, Ferris Wheel, the flat rides... or you can hit the waterpark...

It seriously takes a good 3 or 4 days to hit everything the park has.

Re:Cedar Point rocks

[Anonymous Coward]

And this gets +4 insightful?

Have you actually visited *any* placed elsewhere in the world? Never mind the roller coasters they have there?

Re:Cedar Point rocks

[meringuoid]

Truly an awesome coaster park, one of the best, if not the best, coaster park in the country.

Correction: the best coaster park in the world.

For sheer density of coasters per unit area, Blackpool has to be tough to beat...

Re:Cedar Point rocks

[Anonymous Coward]

I am pretty sure that cedar point holds most of the world records for number of coasters wooden and steel as well as length of track at one park. they also have had a coaster in the top 5 of most categories for the past 10 years.

Re:Cedar Point rocks

[jridley]

Have you actually visited *any* placed elsewhere in the world? Never mind the roller coasters they have there?

Doesn't have to. It's been rated best coaster park in the world several times by international afficianado groups and magazines.

Re:Cedar Point rocks

[Manitcor]

I have ridden coasters in Orlando, Tampa, Cali, Vegas, Cedar Point, Kings Dominon, BlackPool England, and numerous other places.

Cedar Point is by far the most kick ass coaster park in the world. Yes blackpool has about 2 times the coaster but af for sheer speed fun and pure fear Cedar Point is it.

Itll take at least 2 days to hit everything anyhow.

Oh and they do serve beer there :-)

Re:Cedar Point rocks

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course you are ignoring the vast majority of the enthusiasts and magazines that don't rate it as one of the best. I guess you're like a movie ad that only quotes the people that always give movies good reviews. I spent two days there last summer. While the employees are top-notch, the rides were less than spectacular.

Re:Cedar Point rocks

[Anonymous Coward]

> Itll take at least 2 days to hit everything anyhow.

That's sad! Two days of waiting in line to ride 16 rides? Disney World wasn't even that bad.

Re:Cedar Point rocks

[Crocuta]

I grew up in Michigan, about three hours from Cedar Point. We would go a couple of times every summer - some of my best memories of my youth are from that place.

Everyone looks at me like I'm nuts when I say it, but my all time favorite ride there is still the Gemini. There's just something about riding a big creaky wooden coaster (Is it still the biggest wooden in the country?), but the Magnum XL rocked, too. Cedar Point has always been on top of it's game with new and innovative rides.

I'm living out in Washington State now, and haven't gotten back east in seven years. One stop on the itinerary when we get there will definitly be a trip to the Point for a little stroll down memory lane.

This new ride looks very similar to the Xcellerator at Knotts Berry Farm in California. It also uses the hydraulic launch and goes from 0-80 in something like 2.8 seconds. Cedar Fair (the owners of Cedar Point) also owns Knotts, along with a handful of other smaller parks, so my guess is that's where they got the basic plan for the new ride.

Man, I miss the Point. No one will build a good amusement park up here - the season is too short to justify the expense.

Crocuta

Re:Cedar Point rocks

[Manitcor]

not really, the second day is for re-riding all your favs, over and over and over again :-)

Re:Cedar Point rocks

[bleckywelcky]

Actually, yes I have. I'm not trying to say that all other parks in the world suck, they don't. Heck, if I can get a ride on a roller coaster then I'll take it, I don't care where it is. Other parks have some pretty nice stuff too, even though Cedar Point seems to be striving for the highest/fastest records lately, a good balanced ride can still be just as fun in the long run. But still, Cedar Point is the best and if I had the choice of having an entire park to myself, I would probably choose Cedar Point over any other, as I would suspect most coaster enthusiasts would.

Pretty short...

[sean23007]

20 seconds is pretty short. The only thing I can hope is that the extreme rating this thing would get in Roller Coaster Tycoon would keep the crowds away so that the lines never get too long. I could spend an hour going up and down that thing! Unfortunately, if they change the name to something such that "extreme" contains a capital "X" in the form of "eXtreme" or "Xtreme," everyone and their mom will want to ride it. After all, it's Xtreme!!!

Re:Pretty short...

[wideBlueSkies]

Yeah great. So If I want to give myself my first heart attack on a schedule, I know where to go.

Re:Pretty short...

[SoCalChris]

Unfortunately, if they change the name to something such that "extreme" contains a capital "X" in the form of "eXtreme" or "Xtreme," everyone and their mom will want to ride it. After all, it's Xtreme!!!

Yeah, the prototype for this ride is at Knott's Berry Farm, and is named of all things, Xcelerator.

Yet another IIS server slashdotted..

[TheCeltic]

Can't even see the site, completely overwhelmed I guess...

How long?

[Penguin2212]

I wonder how long it will be before the Japaneese beat this record, like before with the Millennium Force.

And the server goes

[MrScience]

from 120mph to 0mph as soon as Slashdot hears about it.

Multimedia links on /. front page

[Znonymous Coward]

I'll bet there servers are going for a roller coaster ride right about now.

Re:Multimedia links on /. front page

[perljon]

Nice sig!

So Happy

[OldMiner]

Yes, it's exciting, but something about this guy's expression on the diary page makes me think he's got more than a coaster blueprint hiding behind that paper.

Re:So Happy

[MrScience]

Well, he is talking about his "steel erection." (no kidding, read the link)

Re:So Happy

[tealover]

His expression? He's smiling. Is that something unusual for you? Your post is anything but funny.

Slashdot is a weird place when a post like yours can be modded up to 5.

Re:So Happy

[Rew190]

That's an older picture of Monty Jasper, basically The Man when it comes to building CP coasters. He did Millenium, Wicked Twister, and now Dragster. Very cool guy, I've talked with him a few times.

Re:So Happy

[Dave2 Wickham]

Hmm...
Followed by:
"I'm looking forward to riding it, how about you?"

Nice ...

[Rolo Tomasi]

... but better bring an umbrella, cause it's gonna be raining puke!

/.ed already

[Ishkibble]

anyone have a secondary server link or something?

Down in record time.

[Picass0]

"All in about 20 seconds from start to finish"

What, the Slashdot effect?

Re:Down in record time.

[MissMyNewton]

"All in about 20 seconds from start to finish"

What, the Slashdot effect?

No, the average Slashdot reader having sex...

Re:Down in record time.

[Anonymous Coward]

20 seconds? Imagine how fast they'd come if they, unlike the Average Slashdot Reader, had sex with another person!

Re:Down in record time.

[Mr. Fusion]

You mean Slashdotters get laid?

-Mr. Fusion

In case /. effect does not wane:

[Anonymous Coward]

Taken directly from http://www.cedarpoint.com/public/inside_park/rides /thrill/_ttd/specs/diary/index.cfm

Date: January 09, 2003
Entry: Catching Up
By: Monty Jasper
Vice President of Maintenance and Construction

You have no idea what a relief it is to finally be able to talk about Top Thrill Dragster. It's the most exciting project I've ever worked on, and keeping it a secret for more than a year has been tough! So far, we've met our milestones, but there are still some big ones up ahead. Overall, I'm pleased with how well things have gone.

I'm sure you've been keeping track (no pun intended) of the ride through the webcams. As you can see, about 90 per cent of the ride is up, and we're well on schedule for the steel erection portion of the work. Our biggest challenge on Top Thrill Dragster was to put up the steel as soon as possible so winter didn't delay the project. We really needed to beat the clock on this one, and despite the winds in November and December, and the recent snow, we're doing okay on the track work. The crew did a great job under some major adverse conditions.

A few sections of track and support columns still need to be put in place once all the heavy equipment is removed from the infield. We're keeping one of the cranes for a little bit longer to install the elevator that'll go to the top of the tower, put catwalks in place, to allow us to torque the bolts on the track and inspect it all.

The foundation for the station is done. The station has an incredible clamshell design, and I predict it will be magnificent.

Work on one of the electrical rooms is 40 per cent complete, and the hydraulic room is about half-finished. The electrical work overall is about 20 per cent complete, and the electrical component of the project is extremely important. Top Thrill Dragster will require a lot of power, because it's taking roller coasters to a whole new level of energy and speed.

Because we'll be dealing with heat and speeds no one has ever contended with before, we're going to need a lot of time to deal with these issues, and Top Thrill Dragster will undergo extensive testing. I'm shooting to have it fired up so we'll have everything resolved in plenty of time for Opening Day, May 4. Testing will include a partial pull-through, and sending a train with a clearance template attached.

That's it for now. I'm looking forward to riding it, how about you?

Towers over their next highest coaster

[immanis]

Cedar Point's Millenium Force coaster is 310 feet high.

The current highest out and back coaster, according to Guinness, is the Steel Dragon in Japan.

Re:Towers over their next highest coaster

[Zargaf]

Millenium Force held the Highest coaster Record for about a month then Steel Dragon 2000 was finished a month after MFs opening takeing the record away shortly.

Re:Towers over their next highest coaster

[anonymous loser]

I went to Nagashima Spaland a couple of years ago and the best coaster they had then was a piece of crap kiddy-coaster. I guess I'll have to go back, now.

Hey girls (and guys), read to not bleed.

[$$$$$exyGal]

When you are going to ride in a super-fast and bone-jarring rollercoaster, make sure you take out your earrings. One time I didn't, and it was bloody. Since my head got banged from side to side so much, my earrings banged my head over and over again. After the ride was over I had two earring size holes underneath my earlobes. It bled, and it hurt. I'm all better now ;-).

--more naked

Re:Hey girls (and guys), read to not bleed.

[dr_dank]

To add to the above poster, those of you with the "Prince Albert" piercing style may do well to go on the teacups instead. :)

Re:Hey girls (and guys), read to not bleed.

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know why this was modded up. THis is a big FAT troll.

Re:Hey girls (and guys), read to not bleed.

[Anonymous Coward]

Shouldn't be an issue with this ride though, as it features lapbars (as opposed to unnecessary shoulder harnesses)

Re:Hey girls (and guys), read to not bleed.

[The Snowman]

Look out for glasses as well. Once when I was riding the Mean Streak, a big wooden coaster at Cedar Point, it was so bumpy they flew off my face and a lucky blind grab caught them. The Millenium Force dried out my contacts. I couldn't yell either, they air rushing into my mouth was faster than my lungs could push the air out.

Re:Hey girls (and guys), read to not bleed.

[mark_lybarger]

i've always heard the shed had a few sharp tools in there. unfortunately, there's not many 'round here.

park unveiled the tallest roller

[Anonymous Coward]

park unveiled the tallest roller
So they hided it under a mountain until opening day or what?

Re:park unveiled the tallest roller

[Maeryk]

No, apparently they started construction after the park closed last fall, and plan to have it open for next May.

One guy I work with (here in Eastern PA, an area dominated by Steel force.. which I think is only topped by Millenium force, and of course, they own both) is a coaster nut. He went to CP twice this year just to ride them.

When I showed him the webcam pics of the construction about a month ago, he had *no* idea what it was, and hadnt seen it in construction when he was there a week or so before closing. And if you look at the webcams, you realize Steel Force's return loop (I think.. its either that or the Mantis)passes right next to this sucker, so he would have noticed it had it not been there.

keep in mind.. these places wont open till May.. if you arent an East Coaster (not sure about the rest of the US) most parks (with the exception of the Hall of the Rat King) are seasonal. They close on Labor Day (and may stay open weekends only until halloween to get the extra "spooktacular" bucks) and then close entirely until May (or possibly late april.. i never remember) the next year.

Re:park unveiled the tallest roller

[SpryGuy]

You're friend's a moron, then. This was being constructed before the park closed, and the area was fenced off for the entire summer. And there's no such thing as "Steel Force".

Re:park unveiled the tallest roller

[Maeryk]

You're friend's a moron, then. This was being constructed before the park closed, and the area was fenced off for the entire summer. And there's no such thing as "Steel Force".

SOrry.. they had the area fenced, but the big hill wasnt up yet. I double checked with him this morning.

And yes, by the way, there IS something called "Steel Force".. its here in Eastern PA, (as I said) at Dorney Park, which is also owned by Cedar Fair. Steel Force is the second tallest in operation, (In the US, or in the Eastern US.. it keeps going back and forth) apparently, with Millenium Force its big brother.

http://www.dorneypark.com/rides/thrill/steelforc e. cfm

Who is the moron?

Maeryk

Re:park unveiled the tallest roller

[Manitcor]

I went there during the weekend before halloween and they had the fencing up and the first couple yellow steel pylons up already. I knew it was a new coaster but had no idea what it was going to be.

But I considered the fact that CP is prob pretty pissed that they lost thier tallest record so quickly after earning it back so I figured it would be bigger than MF.

We were joking that in 10 years or so we will see a 600 or 700 ft drop coaster. WHo would ride one of those?

Re:park unveiled the tallest roller

[Anonymous Coward]

There's no such thing as "Steel Force" AT CEDAR POINT, which was the antecedent. And no, the big hill wasn't totally up, but it was being constructed before the park closed for the season, and was hundreds of feet high by the time they had the Halloween events. The web-cams have been covering it for ages too, as have all Cedar Point sites like "Virtual Midway".

Re:park unveiled the tallest roller

[eunos94]

You can check out the Rollercoast Database to find out how Steel Force ranks. If you sort by height only in the US and only steel tracks, Steel Force is listed as the 21st highest. Admittedly, some of the taller coasters are not the same style. Both the Millenium Force and the Magnum at Cedar Point are taller, so CP has two coasters taller than Steel Force. But if you go with the only east coast, Steel Force gets beat by several coasters in New Jersey and Mass.

pointless rambling...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's impressive but I think alot of newer rollercoaster designs ignore the fact that half the fun is the, slow ascent, and the downwards acceleration that follows.

This reminds me of the Batman&Robin ride in Great Adventure. Similar velocity stats (via "linear induction engine" who0o0o..) but all it felt like was getting your head pummelled around for 20 seconds.

Rides like the Scream Machine & Medusa (and some NYC taxis) although slower are alot scarier and exciting.

Re:pointless rambling...

[KernelHappy]

Batman & Robin Chiller has had its shoulder bars removed thus the head banging is gone. Personally it's a favorite rollercoaster of mine provided you can get 2-3 runs in within a reasonable amount of time (the lines can be hell) they've also learned how to launch the trains properly. My last trip to GA (the end of this past july) was the first time I'd ever seen chiller run all day without them having to stop the red train on the fail safe platform (the story I had gotten years before was that the launches suck up so much juice that if they launch the cars side by side or even too close together that the GA power station starts to struggle and eventually they get a bad run where the trains don't have enough velocity and have to be stopped).

Medusa is still a great coaster but you have to get the first row to really appreciate it. Nitro was a pleasant surprise since it's fast, gives tons of negative gs and seems to last forever while being astonishingly quiet. Nitro was totally not what I was expecting and even though it sounds like it would be boring it turned out to be worth the ride. The original GA batman coaster is still a solid coaster and the lines are usually pretty short these days.

If you don't like being beaten up the Great American Scream Machine has to come off your list. Over the years they've added extra brakes along the way and the wear and tear has made this coaster painful compared to when it was new. But the champ of pain at GA is the Viper. The viper's days have to be numbered, either that or it needs to be renamed to "beat you bloody under 25 seconds". Originally the viper was supposed to be either two or three times as long as it exists today but it was shortened last minute. The combination of the abrupt turns and the "padded" shoulder bars make this a must ride for the S&M crowd in a hurry.

But if you want scary at Great Adventure, Rolling Thunder is still the king. As it's gotten older and deteriorated the suspense of wondering if it's going to fall apart has peaked. Every time I get on RT I think of the handfull of people that have been thrown from it back when it was properly maintained. The only coaster that scares me more in this sense is the Cyclone =].

cedar point...

[djroute66]

Cedar Point is one of the nicest amusement parks in the world. It is clean, they have a lot of good rides, the audience is very well behaved, and the lines are short (in relation to other theme parks). Last two years I went during the weekends of fall, and on Sunday we were able to ride every ride on the park twice in 4 hours.

Re:cedar point...

[Anonymous Coward]

That's total crap.

They have 16 coasters alone. Every coaster twice = 32 coasters. 4 hours = 240 minutes. 32 / 240 = 1 ride every 7.5 minutes. No way.

Plus that doesn't take into account all the other rides.

Re:cedar point...

[Anonymous Coward]

I highly doubt that you hit every coaster twice, considering the size of the park and the lines. Yes, they're generally short and move quickly, but 32 rides in 4 hours would probably only be possible if there were no lines anywhere.

Re:cedar point...

[djroute66]

They don't have 16 coasters, unless you count the kiddy rides.

They probably have 6 "real" coasters that are worth waiting in line.

The advantage being

[indiigo]

Your puke may actually make it into space.

Yup, right on time.

[c_king]

"...on schedule for the steel erection..." the best ride ever, at only 20 seconds!

More info, press release, pictures

[Krellan]

In case Cedar Point's servers are going for a ride, here is more information:

Stats
http://www.rcdb.com/installationdetail1896.htm


Press Release
http://www.rcdb.com/document82.htm


Pictures
http://www.rcdb.com/installationgallery1896.htm


Now, go slashdot rcdb instead. :)

Yes but....

[secondsun]

... who would ride a roller coaster with brakes on the uphill side?

Not the tallest!

[BladeMelbourne]

I would have thought love was the tallest roller coaster in the world. Fast, great distance to fall...

Another name ...

[LoudMusic]

They could just as easily call it the "Barf-O-Matic" ...

And that's fun?

[unfortunateson]

Ok, 20 seconds to ride,
60 seconds to load and unload
7014 seconds in line...

Not for me.
Give me an entertaining ride that lasts a couple minutes at least. Millenium Force was down when we were there, but they've got some great rides.

Mantis -- Woot!

Just avoid the indoor dark bobsled-style coaster on days when it's 90 degrees out -- the AC in the building can't keep up.

Re:And that's fun?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just avoid the indoor dark bobsled-style coaster on days when it's 90 degrees out -- the AC in the building can't keep up.

Yes, that would be Disaster Transport. Tame for a rollercoaster, but easily the most frightening ride in Sandusky, due mostly to its state of disrepair.

Re:And that's fun?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think they tore that down to build this one.

Re:And that's fun?

[jdkane]

Short rides aren't necessarily bad. For example, the Drop Zone (see third row of pictures) at Paramount Canada's Wonderland is very short but very exciting. In fact Theme Park Critic gives it a high rating of 8.1 out of 10. The ride doesn't do much ... just pulls you up and then drops you. Simple, short, yet elegant enough to be one of the more popular rides for thrill seekers.

Re:And that's fun?

[Chris Burke]

You should have seen it before it was called "Disaster Transport" -- it was the same bobsled ride, only out in the open. Not very exciting.

Re:And that's fun?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not all indoor coasters suck.

Flight of Fear at King's Island (Cincinnati) is one of the best coasters out there.

If you want to experience two of the best days of your life hit Cedar Point and Kings Island over two days.

Re:And that's fun?

[Rew190]

Having worked at Cedar Point as an area supervisor, it surprises me that you're disappointed with the long waits that'll probably go with this ride but bring up Mantis.

Mantis was actually one of the longest waits. Since it's a stand up coaster and the restraints are such a pain in the ass, we can typically only run two trains at a time on that track.

Dragster has 6 trains (and yes, they will all be up and going), and as you mentioned the ride time is short. I'm sure we're going to see some huge lines, but they will move quickly. Keep this in mind before you pass it up. I'm very excited about this one.

Re:And that's fun?

[unfortunateson]

It was certainly an exaggeration. It was more of a complaint about how short the ride is. I was at Cedar Point two years ago in late August, and the lines were not bad most places. I really prefer coaster with more entertainment value than just quick thrill. Favorites include Seaworld Orlando's Kraken, Rock N Roller Coaster at MGM/Disney, Viper at Six Flags Great America. The Mantis rating is actually based on my family's response: stand-up and suspended coasters do not support 6'7" tall people.

Re:And that's fun?

[mbourgon]

Thanks for the hints - haven't been to Cedar Point yet (yeah, I know, take away my rollercoaster badge).

But to be honest, this does amazingly little for me. At 6 Flags Over Texas, we have two coasters that are similar to this thing: Mr. Freeze and Titan. Mr. Freeze uses linear induction, and shoots you up to 80 miles an hour in 3-4 seconds. You then shoot outside (the actual "catapult" is done in a tunnel), have long enough to see what's coming, then you go into a top hat, hit a big curve coming around, straight up for a while (frickin' scary - depending on where you sit, you can actually pass the magnets that stop you at the top), then you fall backwards, through the whole thing. Ride lasts something like 30-45 seconds. A blast if you like linear accelerators.

Picture: http://www.vicbilson.com/coasters/graphics/freeze0 1s.jpg

Then there's Titan. A hypercoaster (300+ feet). Nice long drop, but then an actual ride. Again, a blast.
http://www.rcdb.com/full/six-flags-over-te xas/tita n2.jpg

This new one almost sounds like Superman (6 Flags Magic Mountain) - cool concept, but almost a tech demo. (IMHO, Mr. Freeze actually turned the linear induction idea into a real ride.) Cool, and more power to them, but barely a coaster.

Now all this being said, I want to go ride it. Once.

Re:And that's fun?

[rmohr02]

Yes, Drop's Zone is pretty cool. And I assume the one at Paramount Canada's Wonderland is the same as at Paramount's Kings Island.

Re:And that's fun?

[Rew190]

Then there's Titan. A hypercoaster (300+ feet). Nice long drop, but then an actual ride. Again, a blast.


Nitpick: Titan is a hypercoaster, but a hypercoaster is a 200-300 foot coaster. Titan is 255 feet. A 300-400 foot coaster is a gigacoaster.

This new one almost sounds like Superman (6 Flags Magic Mountain) - cool concept, but almost a tech demo. (IMHO, Mr. Freeze actually turned the linear induction idea into a real ride.) Cool, and more power to them, but barely a coaster.

Actually the concept idea for this ride came from one of our smaller sister park's rides, the Xcellerator. http://www.rcdb.com/installationgallery1574.htm

A distinct possibility for this ride is that more is added onto it later, after seeing the public's reaction to the basic idea. There is room for expansion in that particular area of the park, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it were to happen perhaps next year or the year after.

Re:And that's fun?

[mmclean]

Forget the DropZone ride, just find a Drop Zone and go for a Skydive.

/. Blocked

[zero-g]

Seems that blocked /. Go fig.

Open the link in the new window, wait for timeout. Click on link, hit enter. All Fixed :-D

once is not enough...

[Anonymous Coward]

THIS is what its all about folks!

Re:once is not enough...

[dix_visi]

Ahh.. it's been awhile; Bring it on home.

Whoopee, stand in line for 2 hrs, ride for 20 sec.

[blandthrax]

Granted Cedar Point is running out of room (being on an island and all) so they're finding ways to push the envelope, thrill the riders and still fit it in between last year's tallest and the year before's fastest but c'mon, isn't this a little ridiculous? Do I really want to wait in line behind some cellulite ridden, fanny pack wearing tourist for 20 seconds of high-g, whiplashing inducing, 120 mph fun? Hell yeah I do. But honestly, the Mean Streak, Gemini and Mantis are still the park's main attractions IMHO. They simply don't build them like they used to.

Hmmm...

[TheRealFixer]

All in about 20 seconds from start to finish.

And if you act now, they'll throw in 4 hours of waiting in line absolutely free!

Re:Hmmm...

[Rew190]

Nope. Cedar Point wins awards for best capacity (keeping lines to a minimum) for a reason.

6 trains on this thing coupled with only a 20 second ride is going to be a pretty quick moving line. Besides, what else do you expect when you're talking about the world's tallest/fastest coaster?

Of course there will be long lines, but this means you can hit Millenium or Wicked Twister this year without the lines being quite as bad.

Re:Hmmm...

[TomServo]

My question is, with a 20 second ride, I would think that you'd be lucky to get a train full of people and all the restraints checked by the time the previous train makes it back to the station. I mean, even on rides with simple restraints, it takes at *least* 20 seconds for everyone to get out of the queue, into the car, and get their restraints on comfortably. I don't see horrible lines, but I do see a lot of waiting in trains that are stopped outside the station.

I'm assuming that's why the launch point is a ways up from the station. That way, people spend a bit more time waiting in the launch queue and less in line. People are happier waiting in the train than outside on the concrete...

Ok, I'll say it.

[Openadvocate]

That one is just too high for me. :)

20 Seconds?

[Dystopium]

The video was longer than the acutal ride. Go figure?

Re:20 seconds?

[afidel]

My favorite extreme ride was in the Julian Alps. Some crazy friends and I had spent the week climbing and sky diving, well one brilliant soul decided to combine the two activities and another extreme sport, skiing! We climbed up a mountain then put on some cheap skis we had purchased and skied down a scree field. At the bottom of the field was an ~4K foot cliff, we went off the edge and immediately deployed our sails, what a rush!

Re:20 seconds?

[binaryDigit]

Almost all those things either require extensive training or cost a lot of money (equipment/travel). This is a $35 (or however much it costs to get into the park) thrill that almost anyone can participate in. Hell, I can hop on my bike and get up to 120mph in less time and it won't cost me jack (well except for gas and the massive fine if I get caught), but I still look forward to trying this thing out.

why? revenue, of course

[djupedal]

The more bodies they can run thru the gate, the more income they can grab to help pay for the next model. Just like turning over tables at a restaurant, fares in a taxi or Johns on the street.

Want a longer ride? Buy another ticket...it's all about money, after all.

Re:why? revenue, of course

[SplendidIsolatn]

Cedar Point is a one admission fee-for-everything in the park (ridewise) It doesn't matter if the cycle 100 or 10000 people through an hour.

Re:why? revenue, of course

[Proc6]

You think more space, bigger rides, with more breakdowns, don't cost more money? Or how about longer rides, taking longer, creating longer lines, and more people leaving the park with memories of 2 hour waits, instead of 30 minute waits.

I'd guess it's an attempt to find the shortest possible thrill that still leaves people feeling they had a good time, while taking as little space as possible, and moving people through it as quickly as possible.

Re:why? revenue, of course

[djupedal]

ROI...return on investment.... I can imagine that there is tremendous cost in making these things. Just getting one into operation has to be hard enough. If I were a backer, I'd want some sore of guarantee that a second one would be busy full time before I'd approve it.

Re:why? revenue, of course

[The Snowman]

If I were a backer, I'd want some sore of guarantee that a second one would be busy full time before I'd approve it.

The people who run this company make so much money they don't need investors. Which kinda makes me upset when I have to cough up the admission fee. I remember when I was young it cost $15 to get in. That last time I went a year or two ago it was $35. And I'm only 23 :-)

Re:why? revenue, of course

[Anonymous Coward]

That's nothing. Disneyland just today announced an increase to $47.50...

Re:why? revenue, of course

[mark_lybarger]

and i believe it's up to nearly 49$ now for adults, but still WELL worth the price. most people find discount tickets for 25$ or so. it's an all day event, 10 a.m. - 11:30 p.m. then the long quiet drive home for those within range. others get to pay a nice penny for hotels in the area.

as far as a guarantee the ride will be busy... it's basically a "if you build it, they will come" sort of guarantee. their milenimum force ride is still very busy, their gemini ride is still very busy (though i'm sure the line waits are getting shorter). they also have the longest, fastest wooden ride (don't recall the name on that one).

Re:why? revenue, of course

[elixx]

I turned over a table at a restaurant once. Didn't make a dime.
In fact, those arrogant bastards expected *me* to pay THEM! The nerve of some people...

Re:why? revenue, of course

[EllisDees]

I worked there for about a week once at a concession stand when I was 18. Let me tell you that the amount of cash they bring in is *obscene*! Our one little stand could bring in 20K on an average day, and there were probably 100 just like it. That isn't even counting admission or souvenirs. The worst thing was the cheap bastards made you work 60 hour weeks and didn't pay any overtime because it was seasonal work.

Re:why? revenue, of course

[The_K4]

Hey when they have some of the best coasters in the US (and yes I have been on most coasters in the US so I am not just guessing) and THE best collection in the US then i think the admission price is reasonable. After all 6-flags Magic Mountain (Outside LA) which has another great collection of coasters is more then $50 a day. I don't know about anyone else, but when this ride is open, i will probably travel from CA to Ohio to ride it. I'm an adrenaline junkie and damn proud

Re:why? revenue, of course

[TomServo]

No it ain't! I was at SFMM two days ago, adult admission price is $45.99. This is, admittedly, ridiculously high, but they have season tickets for $52.99 on Six Flags' Website. Warning, lotsa flash on that page.

The season passes work at any Six Flags park as well, so that's a bonus.

I did just think that maybe you were including the $8 in parking in that total, so I guess it is over $50. Still, same with all the other parks...

Re:why? revenue, of course

[The_K4]

Ok, so it's just under $50 (it's been a few months since i've been there and then I just showed my season pass from New England that I had bought months earlier). Still the point is that Cedar Point is less expensive for a better collection of coasters.

Re:why? revenue, of course

[reanjr]

The guarantee is that it is Cedar Point. For those not familiar, it is the roller coaster park. Every once in a while someone comes along and tops them with a taller or faster ride for a brief time, but Cedar Point always outdoes them again.

So I guess it will be closed

[Openadvocate]

So I guess it will be closed during thunder storms or what? :D
What is the procedure regarding the weater on coasters, besides I guess it would suck to ride them in the rain. Although you could have a lightning without the raining at that excact moment. hmm

Re:So I guess it will be closed

[Anonymous Coward]

What is the procedure regarding the weater on coasters

Closed when it is: thundering, raining, or windy. I think at Cedar Point they hand out numbers/line passes if you are in line when they close. Then, if they re-open, just show up with your number and you get priority in line.

Re:So I guess it will be closed

[Anonymous Coward]

Cedar Point, at least, closes down their tall rides when there is threat of lightning, and when it rains.

Re:So I guess it will be closed

[Rew190]

The weather is monitored closely for lightning cells. If one is approaching all units with radios are informed, all of the taller rides go down and potential hazards such as umbrellas (basically lighning rods) will go up.

Lighter rain alone will not shut down rides. This may be the exception, as rain hitting you at 120 MPH would probably be a bit painful.

High winds will also shut down the bigger rides.

Nothing surprising, really.

Re:So I guess it will be closed

[Anonymous Coward]

First time I rode Milinium Force (90mph), it had just started raining. No lightning, so they kept running the ride.

Rain at 90Mph STINGS. At 120, I wouldn't ride in the rain, but that's just me.

Oops...

[EclipseU]

I think I pee'd my pants.

Re:Oops...

[Znonymous Coward]

At 120 MPH you pee'd the guys pants behind you too.

Hey !

[dackroyd]

I can see my house from here !

Thrust Air 2000

[bananahammock]

I thought this roller coaster accelerated even faster - something like 80-100mph in around 2 seconds. I reckon the greater thrill is in the acceleration not the elevation.

Cedar Point

[frank_adrian314159]

... rocks! It's gotta be one of the best amusement parks in America. I went there while in Ohio for a family reunion a couple of years ago and I had a great time. The lines sucked (as they do in all of these places) and stuff was overpriced (again, as they do in all of these places), but that's pretty much expected. The great thing was the variety of rides (unexpected) and the location (Sanduski, Ohio) of the place (also unusual). All I know is that I had a great time there and you could do worse for finding a day of rides.

Re:Cedar Point

[Green Light]

Yes, well, Cedar Point is one of the things that we Ohioans are most proud of!

Glad you enjoyed it, please come again!

Re:Cedar Point

[Bill Privatus]

It's "Sandusky."

I grew up very nearby, 20 minutes away. I used to go three times a year - in the 70's, when it was under ten bucks to go.

It was great then, it's still great now. The mantis isn't the biggest anything but getting tunnel vision is simply the coolest sensation you can ask for out of a roller coaster 8-^)

Re:Cedar Point

[The Snowman]

I didn't get tunnel vision on the Mantis, I got sore nuts and knees. The second time I adjusted the seat correctly and was fine, but that first time was rough. I also stopped trying to stand up, i.e. stopped fighting centrifugal force, and just sat down.

Re:Cedar Point

[EllisDees]

>The mantis isn't the biggest anything but getting tunnel vision is simply the coolest sensation you can ask for out of a roller coaster 8-^)

Yeah, I just love that "blood being pushed out of your brain, must be near death" feeling. :)

Cerebral Hemorrhages

[(eternal_software)]

There have been a lot of reports of people getting neurological injuries on coasters already.

I wonder how much more they can push these things before the human limits are reached (at least the human limits the insurance companies will allow!).

Re:Cerebral Hemorrhages

[or_smth]

You bring up an interesting point. As one could expect, an injury/death in a theme park is the absolute worst thing for business possible. While a lot of people think theme parks are safe, and they are (to an extent), there is a lot more going on then they might not know about. I'm pretty sure every park basically wants a NDA from anyone who got hurt on a ride.

So, we are reduced to the employees (myself included, I work at a Canadian theme park) and rebellious victims to give us any information. Try this site if you want to see more or don't believe me.

Just something to watch out for.

Re:Cerebral Hemorrhages

[Anonymous Coward]

One would expect that... But amusement parks that have had lots of fatalaties are still in business... while parks that have been safe have gone bankrupt...

Re:Cerebral Hemorrhages

[gmhowell]

Wouldn't happen to be SeaWorld in/near Niagra, would it? My mother has a few thoughts on that place...

(BTW, it's been like 17 years since we went.)

Re:Cerebral Hemorrhages

[Anonymous Coward]

Research Letters ?
?
Cerebral Hemorrhage Following a Roller Coaster Ride ?
?

This is from the site that you linked to;

-------
To the Editor: Previous reports1-5 suggest that neurological injury following a roller coaster ride may occur among elderly persons, those with known malformations within the brain and spinal cord, and those receiving anticoagulant medications. We report a case of multiple cerebral contusions and subarachnoid hemorrhage occurring in a healthy person without known risk factors for these injuries following a roller coaster ride.
----------

This is also true of many physical activies. Do not mislead people into believe sufficient safety measures are taken. If you are not healthy or have a neurological or circulatory problem... duh dont ride rollercoasters. Anyway how can you tell the damage was done? over-stimulus or actual physical injury? you probably cant. Roller coasters are safe.

Re:Cerebral Hemorrhages

[ayjay29]

>>As one could expect, an injury/death in a theme park is the absolute worst thing for business possible.

I heard that the reverse is true. Sounds morbid but after there's a death on a ride, everyone wants to go on it. I remember as a kid at a park friends were saying "Someone died on this last year, it must be good!".

A friend of mine worked at a sky-diving school and whenever there was a fatal accident in the press the courses would be fully booked for weeks.

Re:Cerebral Hemorrhages

[mrjah]

There have been a lot of reports of people getting neurological injuries on coasters [ama-assn.org] already.

From the very same report cited above:

This is the first reported case, to our knowledge, of multiple cerebral contusions and subarachnoid hemorrhage occurring in a healthy person following a roller coaster ride.

Um, yeah. Quick, let's pass some laws!

Prepare ship for ludicrous speed!

Re:Cerebral Hemorrhages

[Rew190]

I heard that the reverse is true. Sounds morbid but after there's a death on a ride, everyone wants to go on it.

That's definitely not the case here. Of course a death on a ride might "appeal" to some hardcore folks who love the danger aspect of these, but as far as families and those who aren't seeking truly life-threatening thrills (for example, %99 of the guests in an amusement park), this will scare them away. The numbers you might attract because of a death on a ride is completely negligible in comparison to the amount you lose.

Re:Cerebral Hemorrhages

[lemonchillman]

The ONLY two deaths to occur on roller coasters within the past year were a direct result of pre-existing health conditions. In either case, the coaster itself had nothing to do with the deaths. Roller Coasters are safe and in no way a harm to your health unless you have pre-existing complications; in that case you shouldn't be riding anyway. BTS Cedar Point www.btscedarpoint.tk

I've read that 5 times...

[Anonymous Coward]

... and i still don't understand it. What the fuck?!?!

Re:Roller Coaster?

[Anonymous Coward]

take your superstitions elsewhere, please.

wow

[pummer]

at 120 MPH, what are the G forces? my face will end up looking flatter than a goddamn pancake. on this it might actually be worth it to buy those stupid coaster pictures where everyone is screaming their ass off

Re:wow

[jmichaelg]

at 120 mph what are the G forces?

120 mph is 2 miles/minute.
2 miles/minute is 176 ft/sec
0 to 176 ft/sec in 4 seconds is 44 ft/sec/sec

1 G is 32 ft/sec/sec so it's 44/32 or about 1.4 G.

Going a little further, if you weigh 220 lbs, you'll enjoy the feeling of 302 (220x1.4) lbs squishing you into your seat. wotta thrill....

Re:wow

[Anonymous Coward]

my face will end up looking flatter than a goddamn pancake
actually, your face will by covered in your front neighbour's vomit so it'll be hard to tell. good grief.

Re:wow

[cookiepus]

I might be missing something (i barely passed physics)

As far as I understand, the 120mph figure doesn't mean anything. I've gone 120mph in my car, w/o much excitement.

I think the real thrill is from the ACCELERATION? The forces you feel are related to how FAST you get to the 120mhp figure.

Re:wow

[Anonymous Coward]

The 1.4g initial acceleration comes from the fact that the coaster is supposedly accelerated from 0Mph(0ft/s) to 120Mph(176ft/s) in about 4 seconds. This is assuming that the acceleration is constant.

However, the coaster passengers are also subjected to "g-forces" every time it changes directions(i.e. left, right, up, down, etc.) So when the coaster reaches the end of the initial acceleration to 120Mph it is subjected to a 90 change in direction (as it begins to travel perpendicular to the ground). This change in direction will result in "g-forces" applied to its passengers. As well each following turn will result in "g-force" felt by the coaster passengers.

The reason you did not experience any "g-forces" when you were traveling in your car at 120Mph is because you car was either not accelerating at all or the acceleration was to small for you detect. If you are traveling at a constant 120Mph in a straight line there is no acceleration on you or your car. If you make 1 or 2 complete counter/clockwise turns of the steering wheel or push the brake pedal to the floor you will probably feel a 'little bit' of force on your body. As well in some cars you could even push the "gas-pedal" to the floor and feel a significant acceleration at 120Mph but sure as hell not my car.

The physics behind constant acceleration is simple: for straight line acceleration divide the final velocity minus the initial velocity by the time required. Acceleration along a 2D curve is composed of a 2 components. A tangential component and a centripetal component. The tangential component is the acceleration at a tangent to some point along the curve, and can be calculated using a similar(or a simpler) technique as was used for the straight line acceleration. The centripetal acceleration for the same point occurs towards the center point of the curvature. It is equal to the velocity squared, divided by the radius of curvature. The total acceleration for the 2D curve is the root sum square of the tangential acceleration and the centripetal acceleration. The final sign(s) is/are relative to the direction of the acceleration.

It should be noted that the "g-forces" are association with a centrifugal force. Centrifugal force is not a true force it is how the body interprets inertia (resistance to acceleration). Centripetal force is a real force and it is related to the centripedal acceleration. The magnitude of the centripetal force is roughly the magnitude of the "interpreted" centrifugal force, they are just in opposite directions.

Re:wow

[Anonymous Coward]

uh - the g force is 9.8 m/sec^2 or 32 ft/sec^2.
same as if you're standing still.

F = m * a

force = mass times acceleration.

it you're crusing down the highway at 120 miles/hour, the engine must supply enough force to overcome the drag forces due to the atmosphere, and frictional forces (tires/road, cv joints, transmission). but from the observation point of the driver, if his velocity is constant, then he is experiencing no net acceleration.

now, if the craft goes from 0 to 120 mph in 4 seconds, the average acceleration is computed as

v = a * t
v/t = a

120 mph / 4 sec= 30 mph/sec * 5280 ft/mile / 3600 sec/hour = 44 ft/sec2

or 1.375 g.

Re:wow

[kmellis]

Centrifugal force is not a true force it is how the body interprets inertia (resistance to acceleration).

You mean like standing on the ground?

Re:wow

[Anonymous Coward]

I do not understand your question "You mean like standing on the ground?" However, if you are concerned with centrifugal force then check this out:

http://phun.physics.virginia.edu/topics/centrifu ga l.html

Check this out to see what is actually going on with some free body diagrams:

http://www.sciencejoywagon.com/physicszone/lesso n/ 03circ/centrif/centr.htm

Related WiReD Article

[cjsnell]

I'm still trying to load that Quicktime video from their /.'ed server but I believe this was the same type of coaster mentioned in this WiReD Magazine article a couple of years ago.

Re:Related WiReD Article

[Anonymous Coward]

No, thats not the same. That article is talking about the Thrust Air built by S and S Power. The same guys that built Power Tower. That coaster is launched by air pressure. Dragster is launched by hydraulic pressure.

That's a Roller Coaster?

[rhkaloge]

Dang! One look at that thing and I'd be headed for the bummper cars. It's more like a Demon Drop that just gets you to the top REALLY FAST than a roller coaster. Guess it's got all the parts to be a roller coaster, but still...

Eh

[Anonymous Coward]

I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but frankly I'm sick of seeing people excited over this coaster. What makes a good coaster is pacing. Millenium force is considered a great ride because it reamins exciting thoughtout the entiure duration of the ride. Antipation builds up on the lift, the frist drop is amaizing, the campelback is nice the overbanked turns are unique and the bunny hops are great. It stays varied.

Here, anticipation builds for probalby about 15 seconds. You launch and go though the ride in 15 and then you wait for the train to unload. It's not much of a ride. There's no pacing and no variety.

Anohter thing that bothers me is the wait time for this ride. MF has a capacity of 1600 people per hour and suffered waits of upto 4 hours when it was new. These people waited for a 2:45 ride. The wait/ride second=1:30

TTD has a capacity of 1500pph and the ride only lasts what I exect to be about 30 seconds of actual coaster. Its lines should be longer than MF's when it was new and the wait should be a little more to factor in the lower capacity (about 4:15). The wait/ride second=8.5.

I'd much rathter go to Six flags magic mountain next year and ride Scream! - it's a full ride with a higher capacity.n I'd wait less and leave the ride happier. The longer ride will produce more adrenaline which is the whole point of coasters anyway.

Thanks for reading my rant

Re:Eh

[Anonymous Coward]

Not much of a ride????? Well, I'm glad "pacing" makes a food roller coaster for you, but I I feel the need... ...the need for speed. And at 0 - 120mph in 4 seconds, followed by the vertical ascent to 420 ft, I'll finally get a little closer to knowing what it is like to fly an F-15. (Ok, so they have a lot more thrust and acceleration, but probably not for the first 4 seconds of the take-off roll, since turbines have to spool up a bit.) And it accelerates a hell of a lot faster than the piston and turboprop twins I get fly. Still, this is the coolest coaster in my book. So take your mamzie-pamzie "traditionalist" views of roller coasters and whine to people who give a damn about your pre-conceived notions of what a roller coaster is supposed to be. I for one will probably sail from Cleveland to sandusky, stay in the marina and ride that MF as many times as I can.

Maverick

Re:Eh

[Rew190]

What makes a good coaster is pacing.

Not necessarily. This ride is simply about pure, raw speed and height. Millenium Force was also based on this; if it was only half as tall, would it be such a classic ride to you?

Here, anticipation builds for probalby about 15 seconds.

Gotta disagree with you here. Anticipation builds for rides like these as soon as you enter the queue lines. With Millenium Force it really starts when your train leaves the station. With this, it's going to be the same thing. You'll see a light that goes from red to yellow to green, that's obviously for anticipation.

Have you ever been on Power Tower or Wicked Twister? Half of the anticipation on those is just watching the look on those folks' faces before the ride launches. I find it more effective than just the lift hill.

Anohter thing that bothers me is the wait time for this ride

This simply can't be helped more than Cedar Point already has. It's running 6 trains. I'd also speculate that ride capacity on this will be higher than that number (think PR insurance).

I'd much rathter go to Six flags magic mountain next year and ride Scream!

... assuming it's up and running. It's not very often that SFMM has all of their coasters running at the same time, and their capacity doesn't compare to CP's. I was disappointed when I visited their park. Great potential, though, if they got their act together.

Re:Eh

[Rob Parkhill]

If you don't think this thing will kick ass, you have obviously never ridden Xcellerator at Knott's. Same coaster design. Same launch system. Almost the same theme (50's hot rod's vs. top-fuel drag cars, though.)

The anticipation is insane. You slowly inch forward and lock into position. There is a christmas-tree count down, and when that yellow light blinks out, you are GONE! Holy crap. Right before you hit the 90 degree upward turn, you stop accelerating and lean a bit forward. Fly up the hill, twist 90 degrees, and crest the hill. Now imagine the scariest coaster you have ever ridden. You are freaking out just as you get to the top of the lift hill and are about to head down. Same sensation, but heightened since you can't see the track (it's also 90 degrees straight down.) The speed is just right that you -slowly- crest over the top of the hill. Nutty.

TTD adds an insane 270 degree twist to that "first drop" that I can't wait to experience.

Sure, I wish it was longer. Xcellerator has a few more bends and turns after that first hill, but I don't really remember them. That first big hill is where the thrill is.

Now if you want a coaster with nice pacing and crazy elements, go ride X at Magic Mountain. Kee-ripes, that's one nutty ride. Not the fastest, highest, longest, or anything else, but easily one of the wildest coasters around. It's probably displaced Raptor as my favorite coaster of all time (which is impressive... I rode Raptor when it first opened, and I've ridden maybe 35 brand-new coasters since then, and none have challenged for the top spot until X.)

Unfortunately, the line was 4+ hours long (only 2 hours when we rode it right when the park opened). They have some serious loading/unloading issues with that ride. Only got to ride it once...

lordy lordy...

[DarthWiggle]

I swore to myself I'd never do this, but...

1. Build super-tall coaster!
2. ???
3. Vomit!

i feel dirty.

Re:I see why

[WolfgangFlur]

Well, I just can't agree with that.
After all, Canadians use the metric system! ;)

Never ride the Demon Drop!

[Anonymous Coward]

That ride has got to be the most gut-wrenching evil thing ever invented. Ride it once and you'll know what I mean. Gives me the chills just thinking about it. Sure the line is pretty short... ride it and you'll know why.

---
Hmmm... password stored in Linux. Oh well.

Looks Like Fun

[MeatMan]

Looks like a great Vomit Comet. I'd love to give it a go. But I hate standing in line for an hour for a 30-second thrill.

Longer ride != faster lines

[JackL]

The millenium force gets 1600 riders/hr. This one is predicted to get 1500. Usually the turnover is dictated by the size of a train and how fast you can load/unload them. There will be a train going up the hill, one on the track and one in the house loading/unloading. When they are going 70-120 mph, you'd need an awfully long track to change this model. Since this coaster is so fast, there will only be one train going up the hill or on the track. All the others will be loading/unloading and keep the line moving that way.

I think the reason it is short is twofold. 1) Cedar Point is on an peninsula and space is getting scarce. 2) No one really cares what comes after the first hill.

I don't believe it is as simple as some of the "screw the customer and move 'em along" remarks would lead you to believe

Re:Longer ride != faster lines

[davemabe]

Usually the turnover is dictated by the size of a train and how fast you can load/unload them.

Usually? Why just usually?

Re:Longer ride != faster lines

[Fig, formerly A.C.]

The turnover goes down when there is no wait. Empty seats don't up the bodycount, you know.

Re:Longer ride != faster lines

[The_K4]

A BIG part of the time is how long it takes to get UP the hill....the newer coasters only sound short because many of them you go up the hill fast! If you compared the time from the top of the lift hill to the end of the ride on the older coasters it's less then 1/3 of the "ride time" in most cases. So while it may seem sort, it will not seem any less of a ride.....you just lose the anticipation factor of that first big hill, waiting to go over.

Re:Longer ride != faster lines

[TomServo]

No one really cares what comes after the first hill.

That's completely untrue. The big hill brings people to the park, but a better overall coaster brings people back. Almost everyone who has ridden a large number of coasters puts either Millenium Force or, even more often, Superman: Ride of Steel at the top of their lists.

Still consider Riddler's Revenge at Six Flags Magic Mountain to be one of the best coasters I've ridden. It's smooth, the transitions are fantastic, and there's great airtime. The general public are drawn to a park because of the numbers...the biggest drop, the highest speed, etc. But they come back to a good ride experience, meaning airtime, headchoppers (or footchoppers for inverted coasters), and other elements that make a great coaster are very important.

I would have preferred that they make a launched coaster like Xcelerator, but instead of going bigger, adding a whole coaster to it. I guess that doesn't sound as good to the marketing guys, though.

hided

[nadsley]

...that's a new one.

Cedar Point is *not* overpriced.

[vjlen]

Compared to the "commericial" amusement parks like Disney and Six Flags, Cedar Point is quite affordable.

I took a tour of three different parks in Ohio last summer in a week for coaster riding (Cedar Point, Six Flags Ohio and Paramount's Kings Island), and prices at Cedar Point were the cheapest. It was also the best operated park from a staffing standpoint.

And your opinion is...

[djupedal]

...as a theme park owner/operator, I take it?

Or simply an engineering approach, perhaps?

At least we agree that it's not a simple answer. Spending and making money never is, or we'd all be rolling around in it, wouldn't we. In this case, rather than speed up the line, we'll wait to see if they increase the fare instead. Any doubt the TTD costs more to ride than the MF? And that increase has to do with what? ...right...making money...

Re:And your opinion is...

[Anonymous Coward]

You really are stupid aren't you.

The lines shouldn't be long.

[Chris_Stankowitz]

Acording to the Facts Page, its capacity is Approximately 1,500 riders per hour. I'm not sure how this was calculated, but being its a 20sec ride that should hold true.

Re:The lines shouldn't be long.

[nuintari]

You've obviously never been to Cedar Point then, if the line moves fast, more people will get into it, Vacuums tend to be filled, especially at Cedar point when they whip out yet another new ride. Fortunately, this will keep people out of the lines for the Millenium Force and Raptor. :-D

Re:The lines shouldn't be long.

[TomServo]

Heh, and Arrow Dynamics said that X at Six Flags: Magic Mountain would be able to get approx. 1,680 riders per hour. The fastest I've ever clocked it at is about 580 riders per hour.

There's going to be a lot of restraints checking on this ride for at least the first year, just like Xcelerator at Knott's (smaller version of this guy). I sincerely doubt it'll be up to that capacity (or running six trains simultaneously) this season.

Though it probably will do better than X....

20 seconds?

[core plexus]

That's all? I can think of dozens of things that are way scarier, and last much longer. Try ice climbing, rapelling, free-fall parachuting, open-ocean diving, (and diving under the ice), camping beside a salmon stream in bear country, etc. etc.

That's Just a Burglar Alarm -- Ignore It!

One of us is missing the point

[JackL]

There is no "fare". This was covered in a different post. It is a one time fee to get into the park. There is no per-ride cost. Both TTD and MF cost US$25 million to build (according to rcdb.com), and both take roughly the same riders per hour.

I still maintain that it is a quick ride because they realize there is only so much space on the peninsula, and that to make the thing long enough to impact the riders/hr would have taken all the space the park has. So now you get a rather intense 20 second ride. Which is really what you came for. No one remembers the second hill.

Re:One of us is missing the point

[djupedal]

I see.

And I agree with your logic about extending the ride being perhaps counterproductive to the experience. They way this thing is marketed is time to speed...this means short...the only way to make it last longer is to go faster (not practical from a health and safety point of view?)...and faster would mean taller. I think even a little more speed would add a lot more height...they might simply be at practical limits all the way around.

Do we know what the average modern coaster ride time average is? How long is MF?

Re:One of us is missing the point

[reanjr]

I agree whole-heartedly. Every time they get a new coaster, I am absolutely astounded that they fit yet another one. I heard of vaporous plans a while back to sell off the Magnum due to it's size (footprint) and its againg grandeur. 205 ft.? 70 mph? Come on, we can do much better than that.

two rides

[djupedal]

But this two ride thing makes me wonder...since they use a dragster theme, why didn't they put two tracks next to each other? Thus doubling the capacity, while expanding on the drag race theme?

The tracks could twist inside each other on the downrun, and add even more thrill...wonder if they thought about this and rejected it?

Was it safety or money that held them back?

Re:two rides

[JackL]

Now that would have been cool! The Gemini at Cedar Point is a twin coaster. Back in its hayday the riders would be shouting for their car to "win". The atmosphere was incredidble. I'm still a die hard red train rider to this day.

Interesting you brought up safety - on the Gemini you can actually give high fives to the people in the othter train. And when you are a little kid, it seems like they can almost pull you out!

Re:two rides

[WindowsTroll]

Riding the Gemeni was always a blast. I remember during the early 80's, that people in one of the trains would yell "Tastes great" and the other train would yell "Less filling" and everyone would be be giving high fives to people on the other train when they were rounding the corner on the second hill.

Another great thrill at Cedar Point was the blue streak. Perhaps just a boring there-n-back coaster, but when the attendants came by to push the lap bar down, you would raise your knees as high as you could. When the ride took off, you had about four inches of play in the bar. When you would crest a hill and go down the other side, you would fly out of your seat and your knees would catch the bar to keep you from flying out of the car. In hindsight, this was pretty stupid, but as a teenager, it was a blast.

Re:two rides

[etcshadow]

To this day, the Gemini is about my favorite coaster. There is pretty much never a line, even on the most crowded of days. There is no getting past the fact that it is STILL a good roller coaster... it is not the tallest or fastest, but it is fun, in the good old wooden-coaster style. The racing thing is awesome fun, too. It is silly as hell, I know, but honestly, when you get on that ride, you are part of a team for 2 and a half minutes. You all try to rock your body-weights so it gains that all-important additional hitch on the chain up the first hill.

What a great ride. (Of course... the Raptor is better, but I can ride the Gemini ten times in the time it takes to ride the Raptor :-D)

Re:two rides

[wheany]

Come to Finland, we have roller coasters that have a hill and some turns. And the really exciting one has a corkscrew.

I went to Disneyland Paris last summer and the least exciting kiddie coaster they had there (the train that could) is just barely worse than the best in Finland.

Okay, so I haven't been to the parks for a couple of years, and they've gotten some new stuff there, but I am still doubtful...

Re:two rides

[Junnonen]

True, but not every amusement park in the world has a 50-year-old, wooden coaster like in Linnanmäki, Helsinki...

Re:two rides

[wheany]

Well yes, that is a historical ride, but some of the coasters that have been opened just during last few years combine the worst of all worlds: They're short, slow, and have maybe like 1 loop or corkscrew.

Re:two rides

[dsoltesz]

You really need to see Cedar Point - and while you're here, hit King's Island and maybe even Magic Mountain. Disney's not famous for great roller coasters, and from what we understand, EuroDisney sucks.

Re:two rides

[dsoltesz]

Gemini is still a beautiful coaster, if no longer the big thrill of the park. I rode it a couple years ago for old time's sake. After hitting all the big coasters, I was amazed how butter smooth Gemini is... and of course, the lines are non-existent!

Re:two rides

[Anonymous Coward]

Blue Streak was always a fun coaster. I don't think it gets a fair rap with these newer coasters gaining all the attention. I haven't been there in a few years so it may not even be there anymore. There's certainly nothing like free falling over the hills wondering if you're going to be able to keep your ass in the seat. I've still never ridden the Magnum or Millenium Force or any of those newer coasters.. they just don't thrill me like the good old clickety-clack wooden coasters do. The ride on the metal coasters is just too damn smooth. Unless you're jarring your fillings out of your mouth it's no fun. ;-)

Re:two rides

[Rob Parkhill]

Why build one when you can have two for twice the cost? I have to think that it was price. I mean, just the one coaster cost $25,000,000. I don't think they could have saved much money on the second one.

Re:two rides

[Mysticalfruit]

My wife and I did both this summer... plus Wright Patterson Airforce Base.

Cedar Point is amazing. Besides all the other often spoke about roller coasters, I'm a big fan of Mean Streak...

PKI is definity worth the admission, but it's not at the same caliber as Cedar Point. We decided that one day was all we needed for PKI, whereas we spent two at Cedar Point. (we were also on a cross country trip so time was at a premium...

Wright Patterson Airforce Base was also amazing an d is worth the trip as well. Actually being able to walk up and touch an SR-71 was amazing...

Re:two rides

[dsoltesz]

Growing up, we would alternate every summer between Cedar Point and King's Island. I haven't been to KI in quite a while (since The Beast was still new), so I don't know if it's kept up with the times.

We went to Wright Pat for the first time a couple years ago - that's another attraction that needs two days to go through!!! Definitely high on my recommendation list!

Re:two rides

[Mysticalfruit]

We were bummed that the whole space side of the museum was closed for renovation... Though, when I need todo my long distance checkouts for my pilots license I intend to make one of my trips to a civilian airport (or even WPAB itself) and take another stroll through the museum...

More details

[cdrudge]

Since the sight is slashdotted (it's painfully slow in the middle of the off season before /. hit it anyways), here are some more details that I gleamed off the site earlier. I guess my write up wasn't good enough :(

-Each car will have tiered seating, similar to stadium seating in a movie theater. Everyone should have a good view of the ground as the are dropping straight towards it.

-The track is basically an oval. You come straight out of the garage, immediately go up, peak, then come back down. On the trip down, you do a 270 degree twist. Then you just ride out on a straight track.

-The cars will be launnched via a cable (similar to the Millenium Force) as oppose to a LIM. Braking will be provided via magnets.

-CP is expecting a car goes through the station every 40 seconds for about 1500 people/hour.

Anyways, if you want to see two representations as to what the track will look like, check out here.

Re:This is too much

[Anonymous Coward]

law against self-service at gas stations

What?

Call me a purist.

[/dev/trash]

Is this really a roller coaster? I'd think a roller coaster would go in some sort of loop, not straight up, a twist and then straight down. I'm sure it's a thrilling ride, but not really a roller coaster.

Re:Call me a purist.

[tx_mgm]

you're a purist.
you're welcome.

Re:Call me a purist.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, it is a roller coaster. A roller coaster by definition rolls (roller). It also coasts (coaster). This seems to fit the description, a rolling vehicle that after launches, coasts to the end of the track. So, mr purist... are you saying that all those coasters pre-revolution with no inversions are not coasters? I suppose all those wooden things (son of beast excluded) don't count as roller coasters, as they don't have any 'sort of loop'. Damn.

Re:Call me a purist.

[Rew190]

Tricky question. Does one call Superman: The Escape at Six Flags Magic Mountain a coaster? Is Demon Drop a Coaster?

The only way I can "tell" is to have a look at the thing. I would say that a Coaster has to be closed circuit and such, but impulse coasters such as Wicked Twister have put a spin on that for me as well.

Re:Call me a purist.

[TomServo]

Well, like you said, by that criteria a ride like Deja Vu at SFMM (and other places) wouldn't be a coaster. It's also a back & forth.

I still maintain that S:TE is a coaster. It still rolls, and once the initial launch (building energy via LIM instead of a chain lift) is done, it's all working with gravity & friction, just like any other coaster.

I honestly know nothing about Demon Drop, so I won't comment on that.

Re:Call me a purist.

[lemonchillman]

Demon Drop is just like S:TE, and no they are not roller coasters, according to Cedar Point. Talk to Six Flags and they'll tell you differently. If Demon Drop was considered a coaster, CP would have 17 roller coasters.

Re:Call me a purist.

[MonMotha]

PKI has "Face Off". It's an inverted coaster with seats facing both directions. You get cranked out of the station "backwards" (relative to the direction where the rest of the track is) up a hill, then released. You then go around to another hill where you are held temporarily then released again to return to the station. It's certainly a roller coaster, but it isn't a closed circuit.

The wait time's horrible as the throughput is bad. The design only allows one train. However, it's a really cool ride as you get to do the same thing both backwards and forwards in one sitting.

Re:Call me a purist.

[TomServo]

Well, this is why I don't ask Cedar Point or Six Flags, I usually listen to coaster enthusiasts instead.

I don't think anyone can truly make a determination about S:TE & Demon Drop. There are reasons that they don't fit into the classical definition of a coaster, and there are reasons that they do. If you want to get truly technical, they roll, and they coast.

I still think a bigger issue, when it comes to who has more rides, was/is Flashback at SFMM. That ride is standing but not operating all summer long, and it only runs in the offseason.

Re:Call me a purist.

[Rew190]

Magic Mountain almost never has all of their rides operational. That's normal over there. At Cedar Point, it's a big deal if a coaster is down. Wicked Twister was down for a week or two at the beginning of the season and Raptor had a few problems, Millenium and Magnum were also down for a few hours. That was pretty much it.

I don't think anyone can truly make a determination about S:TE & Demon Drop

Well, that whole debate stems from Magic Mountain considering S:TE a rollercoaster, thus having the same amount of coasters as Cedar Point (which they brag about). Unfortunately for them, if you consider that ride a coaster, then Demon Drop is also a coaster. Smaller, sure, but it's a coaster by that "definition." And as the parent post noted, that would still mean CP has more coasters.

So basically, whenever you hear that Magic Mountain has more coasters than CP does, it's pretty much bullshit. Many times their rides are down (and they don't run as many trains as CP does) and the lines move slower, so if you compared a day with similiar attendance at CP to MM you'd probably get on more different coasters at CP and ride more times.

This is actually something I'm familiar with.

[Xnone]

Cedar Point is certainally a great park. They care for their employees, and run a great place. I have had much experience with many people involved with the park over the years, living just a stones throw away. I did some computer work in the past for the head mainframe analyst there a while back. I saw some pictures from their data rooms back in the mainframe days, as well as some more current ones. It certainally is an impressive sight, especially being an amusement park. The park is built in fact on a peninsula, not an island, so they have more room then you would think to expand, as well as hotels, and marinas which can be used for future expansion. They outdid themselves with the Millennium Force in my opinion. There is nothing like watching your favorite lady (or man) in the seat next to you as you scream down a 310 foot drop in the front seat. I can only hope this coming attraction will hold a candle to its predecessors. Cedar Point has several methods these days to cut down on the time to wait in line, such as hand stamps, and such, for those early to arrive. Hopefully this will cut down on the anticipation time, and increase the ride time on this. Anyway, this introduction is certainally thilling, and I can only hope my ride this coming May will live up to the immense hype.

I guess my mind is in the gutter

[wowbagger]

Ok, 20 seconds to ride,
60 seconds to load and unload
7014 seconds in line...

Don't tell me I'm not the only person making comparisons to some other form of, shall we say, more intimate entertainment....

Sigs...

[DrLudicrous]

But Al Gore invented them.

Re:Whoopee, stand in line for 2 hrs, ride for 20 s

[The Snowman]

The Magnum still goes strong too. It may be a "paltry" 210 feet, but it's still 72 MPH, and a great view from the top of the hill. The first time I almost shit myself not because of the height, but because they anchored the rest of the ride in the sand. Pay attention next time -- it's built right on the beach. Granted they do have deep concrete pylons, but still... sand...

What if you puke on the "freefall" way down ...

[BrittPark]

Wouldn't it just kinda fall with you?

Re:What if you puke on the "freefall" way down ...

[IndoorCat]

Wouldn't it just kinda fall with you?

I would think the puke would be less aerodynamic than the rest of the coaster and would fly into the face of the person behind you.

Re:This is too much

[mrjah]

I think the rest of the country would do good to follow New Jersey's lead.

This person must be trolling. Please, let this person be trolling.

Read up on the details. New Jersey has NOT outlawed "this type of ride." Rather, they have legislated caps on the G forces a ride is allowed to impose upon its riders, if that ride is to operate in the state. Cedar Point's new ride is comfortably within that maximum, and would be able to operate in New Jersey if a park there had the height variances, the business mandate and the cash required to build such a structure. Oh, and incidentally, New Jersey's G-force law will not prevent most of the injuries it is supposed to eliminate. Compare the nature of the cited injuries -- and the rides on which they occurred -- to the nature of the law's restrictions. There's little connection.

And while I'm here -- if you believe that their law against self-service at gas stations has a positive effect on public safety, you are wrong. It has a positive effect on PERCEIVED public safety, employment rates and other metrics with no bearing on your physical welfare. Self-serve is statistically quite a bit safer than full-serve. If you don't believe that, ask yourself why money-hungry insurance companies in 48 states (minus New Jersey and Oregon, where self-serve is a vicious crime against society) charge NO MORE to insure self-serve stations than full-serve stations.

So if you think this ride is dangerous, stay out of the line for it. Allow those of us who wish to "injure" ourselves to follow through on our folly. Someday you can look back wistfully on all the great experiences you watched other people have.

Don't even get me started on New Jersey's implementation of no-fault insurance. You'll never catch me owning a car in that state. Or stopping for gas there, either.

Speaking of tallest...

[RallyNick]

It really depends how you measure it. If you measure the distance between the highest point and ground (as they might do to inflate the numbers a bit) I think they got all beat. You know the Vegas Stratosphere tower, right? Didja know there's a rollercoaster on the roof of that thing?

I only went to Vegas once and didn't notice it there, but I saw it after I processed my films. Happened to take a telephoto of the tower from the car on our way home...

To bad they didn't spiral it all the way down, lol

Re:Speaking of tallest...

[Anonymous Coward]

It really depends how you measure it.

Yup.
Feet? Miles per hour? Whose feet? What miles?

I'm always surprised that the Americans use a unit like hours, based on the SI unit seconds. ;)

(In Real units, 120 Miles/h == 193.08 km/h, and 310 ft == 94.488 m)

Please God, Don't Let it be Windows CE...

[brodin]

I certainly hope the ride isn't run by Windows CE. A BSOD half way up wouldn't be fun... Although, maybe CE could then stand for "Coasters Ejecting".

Re:I see why

[Anonymous Coward]

WOLFGANG FLÜR!?

OK, you use the metric system in Düsseldorf as well. ;)

Boing. Bumm, Tschak.

420

[mschoolbus]

420 foot towers, as if stoners didn't already have enough time to smoke on the way up...

Re:420

[RedWolves2]

I don't they will have time to smoke going 120 mph up the tower.

What have you been smoken?

Re:420

[CharlieG]

The whole ride is over in 20 seconds - you make the top in less than 10 seconds!

270 degrees ?

[terrymr]

So if I'm going straight up and then getting twisted through 270 degrees how the hell am I coming straight down again ? I think you mean 180 degrees.

Re:270 degrees ?

[LordKronos]

Yes and no. What happens is that while you are going up you do a 90 degree rotational twist about a vertical axis. Then you go over a 180 hill (so you go from facing up to facing down). On the way down you do a 270 degree rotational twist about the vertical axis again.

Mpeg

[Anonymous Coward]

#Also check out the POV video here Quicktime or here Windows Media Player.#

Ok, but where is the mpeg? You know, us, for nerds who don't have Windows.

Re:I see why

[Anonymous Coward]

...and the only thing worse than a canadian is a french canadian

Re:Whoopee, stand in line for 2 hrs, ride for 20 s

[Anonymous Coward]

(being on an island and all)

Cedar Point is not an island, it's a peninsula. Secondly, we're not running out of room. The reason everything is cramped is because of the sheer size of the park. To walk along the outer perimeter is 2 miles. If we were to simply expand outwards (that's a might large parking lot, you know) then getting from one end of the park to the other would require a jet of some sort.

Wait times should not be horrendous. 6 trains will be running, and the ride as everyone is mentioning is only going to last for about 20 seconds. The lines will definitely be long, but rest assured they will move quickly as soon as the ride ops get the routine down and all kinks are worked out of the loading/unloading process.

I worked at Cedar Point every high school summer

[Anonymous Coward]

And two college summers. If you look at Cedar Point's recent history, you'll see that it gets a "superlative honor" new ride every other year, almost like clockwork. Fastest, tallest, first, best, etc. IMO, it's a bit of a scam job on the part of the coaster makers. The relationship between the few popular coaster ride makers and amusement parks seems to be akin to that of radar (/detector) makers and cops, or arms dealers and militaries - they get contracted to make the biggest and best of something, usually either by Cedar Fair or Paramount, they do that, then they turn around and make something slightly better for the next customer in queue. Cedar Point shops used to sell books with the histories of record-breaking coasters in the world (to underscore the fact that it's had the most, I guess), and it's almost comical to see the progression, and the coaster makers involved.

I doubt 2004 will see its summer before another park's coaster takes this honor, and I wouldn't be surprised if it were made by the same manufacturer.

Video Quality -- It sucks!

[delus10n0]

Jeez, who encoded the video? Even the "High" stream looks like dog crap. Ugh. I bet they paid some outside media processing place a hefty sum too. Can't even watch the videos.

Cerebral Hemorrhages

[Anonymous Coward]

First off Gttp is the best site secondly you can get a brain hemorrhage walking up the steps to load onto a ride its not the rides fault yes there has been cases where people have died on coasters and it was the fault of someone not checking the proper restraints out and the person riding (standing up) not following the rules so lets not blame the rides for peoples stupidity.. there is signs posted at the begining of all cedar points rides that are "extreme" the warnings are there if u choose to ignore them well once again its your fault so lets start putting the blame where the blame is do!

Re:This is too much

[Rew190]

Wrong.

New Jersey put a ban up on coasters with high G's, not the ones that are big and scary looking.

This one won't even hit 2, which is fine by me- experiencing high G-forces isn't fun.

If you're afraid of it, don't ride it.

Birdstrike?

[michelcoene]

At these speeds, don't they have to start worrying about birdstrikes and such? Even a bumblebee will not be a pleasant experience if you sit on the front row... I had a full birdstrike with my car once driving 190 km/h (126 mph). German autobahn of course...

Re:Birdstrike?

[NetGuruFL]

At Holloween Horror Night at Universal's Islands of Adventure, i got to ride the Incredible Hulk at night during a hard Florida rain storm. On one hand it was cool since the lights were off except for strobes (Halloween and all), on the other hand the rain stung very very hard and caused mild welting. I will never do that again.

Re:Birdstrike?

[YrWrstNtmr]

The 'model' Fabio got hit by a duck(?) during the opening of Apollo's Chariot at Busch Gardens/Williamsburg. He was in the front seat, and the fowl crossed the path. He ended up somewhat bloody IIRC. They've since put up a barrier net to keep the birds from taking off directly across the coaster path.

Re:And the server goes... Damn fast downloads

[HumanXX]

Ok I was expecting the sever to be pretty much dead, but I managed to download the 8.8MB quicktime file in 1 minute 5 seconds. So all credit to the guys at Cedar Point for having a nice fast webserver too.

-1

[Anonymous Coward]

Urban Legend

Re:WARNING ABOVE POST IS A TROLL

[Anonymous Coward]

$$$$$exyGal (638164) is a known troll.

imperial second?

[Anonymous Coward]

as opposed to some other fucking kind of second? dip shit? yeah, i sure hate those fucking colonial seconds.

Re:I see why

[asciimonster]

As everybody knows, the metric system was invented to make all the americans feel superoir! (Don't you whatch the X-Files? (And they only want you to believe that show has ended, trust me! ;) ) )

For all you metric-starved people, me included, here's what the article would read in cetric units:
Coaster Art Guy writes "Cedar Point amusement park unveiled the tallest roller coaster in the world today. Top Thrill Dragster launches you from 0 to 190 km/h in 4 seconds via a hydraulic launch. The dragster looking like cars take you straight up a 130 meter high tower, into a top hat element, and twists you 3/2*Pi radians straight down. All in about 20 seconds from start to finish. How about that one? Also check out the POV video here Quicktime or here Windows Media Player."

Sounds much less exciting now hah? Just proves my point.

Re:WARNING ABOVE POST IS A TROLL

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh wait, scratch that. Wrong user, sorry.

signed,
Anonymous Coward (a known troll).

Windows Media Sucks!

[LINUXWANNABEE]

Anybody figure out how to bypass that mms protocol and save the video file natively?
Trying to run crap that big over the 'net is a joke - even at 5 AM on a broadband conection.
I saved the Quicktime version, but Quicktime freaks out on my machine with files that large.

I absolutely HATE mms . . .

Only $25 million .... I DON'T THINK SO!

[mustangdavis]

The people at Cedar Point have listed the costs of this (rediculous) coaster at only $25 million ...

I think they forgot something veryy important ...


It's called legal fees and settlements ...


You can't tell me someone isn't going to get killed on this thing! The whiplash suites, heart attacks, vomit stained clothes .....

Real costs: $250 million (per year)

Re:Only $25 million .... I DON'T THINK SO!

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure I can, no one is going to get killed on this thing. In fact, injuries are incredibly rare at amusement parks. Only about 1 in 25 million will get an injury that requires hospitilization and 1 in 1.5 billion will die. As for whiplash, thats why the trains have special headrests.

The solution: Disney's express pass

[swb]

I hate long waits too. On a business trip to SoCal I had some time and went to Disney's California Adventure. It's kind of a small park, but they have a couple OK rides.

Anyway, they have an "express pass" deal that I thought was awesome. You put your park ticket (which is magstripped or barcoded) into a machine and it kicks out an express pass which is good for about a 20 minute time period in an hour. During the time period, you basically walk right up and get on the ride. I think we might have waited at most 2 load cycles before getting on the ride in the express queue. Afterwards, you can get another for the same ride.

I know you were limited to just one express pass for a particular ride at a time, but I can't remember if I was able to get multiple express passes in the same 1 hour period for multiple rides. Unlimited would be a problem, but 2-3 shouldn't be a big deal.

I'd love to see this implemented everywhere. It probably pays for itself since instead of waiting in the queue you can wait with a softdrink or something in a better location. An even better idea would be an admission upcharge that would allow you to get multiple passes for multiple rides or something. I'd pay an extra $10 if I knew I was going to be riding more rides and skipping more lines.

Other ideas that skip the technology investments would be "premium" tickets for more money that allow you to jump 2/3s of the main queue or something. I'd go for that in a heartbeat.

Cedar Point did it again!

[Anonymous Coward]

I had no idea they were building another rollercoaster at Cedar Point. Well I'll be going in May. The good thing about living in southeastern Michigan is that you can get to Cedar Point in only 2 hours! :-) Ppl from Cali never even heard of Cedar Point.

Mirrors!

[cecil36]

Anyone have the images or videos cached somewhere. I wanted to view them off of cedarpoint.com but their entire site is down. Am suspecting the /. effect, possibly combined with fark.com's traffic.

0 to 120 in 4 sec is supposed to be impressive?

[Anonymous Coward]

That an acceleration of 30mph/s, which is right around 1G. You can get that on any sufficiently steep coaster, although air resistance and other frictions will probably not let you reach 120 by freefall.

Real top fuelers go 0-300 in 4 seconds.

Still, sound like a fun coaster :-)

Oh. My. God.

[DaveOf9thKey]

So, does this mean that the Running of the Bulls will no longer be pushing toward Millenium Force anymore? =^)

This ride actually bears a bit of a resemblance to Superman: The Escape at Six Flags Magic Mountain, only that ride isn't an out-and-back like this one. It also owes a small debt to King's Dominion's Hypersonic XLC, which has the most intense launch of any coaster I've ever ridden -- a compressed-air system that pushes the car 0-80 mph in 1.8 seconds. At 20 seconds long, Hypersonic is also too short a ride. If someone could have made a full 90-second coaster ride out of something like Hypersonic, it would likely be my favorite coaster of all time. As it stands, that honor still goes to Apollo's Chariot at Busch Gardens.

Until I get to Cedar Point this summer, that is... =^)

Re:Oh. My. God.

[Anonymous Coward]

You are so right. The Chariot Rules, with the way the seats are done and the hil after hill of near-zero-G tickles in the tummy!

Re:The solution: Disney's express pass

[Rew190]

Cedar Point has this in the form of a stamp on your hand with the time you should get there. It's also free. It covered the major thrill rides that were known for long lines.

Other ideas that skip the technology investments would be "premium" tickets for more money that allow you to jump 2/3s of the main queue or something.

Doubtful. The tickets would have to be very expensive and very limited in number (say you can only buy 100 tickets on any given day). Guests do not take well to waiting in a long line only to see a large group of other guests just skip right ahead of them. This would just piss people off at the park for increasing their wait time so that guests willing to pay more cash to the park can budge them. In a way, it's like a park selling out it's guest service image.

The aforementioned express lane CP has only allows a handful of guests to skip ahead, so it's generally not an issue and doesn't add a noticable amount of time to the wait. If you want to skip the line, then you'd better get your express lane stamp first thing in the morning when you enter the park.

Re:The solution: Disney's express pass

[swb]

Doubtful. The tickets would have to be very expensive and very limited in number (say you can only buy 100 tickets on any given day).

Make them expensive and limited, and even purchase ahead. It's like ~$30 for an adult admission to Valleyfair in MN (owned by Cedar Point). I'd be willing to pay $60 to get in if I knew that I could jump the queue so many times per hour or something.

Deer Valley ski area actually stops selling lift tickets on popular days; maybe this is an option for amusement parks to keep the crowds down. Obviously they won't do this (if you're willing to pay on the most crowded days, their gain, your loss).

In a way, it's like a park selling out it's guest service image.

As far as I'm concerned, they're already selling out their image by doing nothing (at least at Valleyfair) to constrain crowds or waits. An express system would only piss people off if it wasn't generally for sale to everyone. I don't drive a BMW or live in a mansion, but it doesn't piss me off that some people can.

Re:I see why

[CvD]

Actually, to all people who use metric (most of the world), this actually brings it more into perspective. 0 to 190 in 4 seconds is most impressive. It takes a skydiver in freefall at least 10 seconds to get to that speed.

Anyone know how many Gs this thing would produce?

Cheers

Re:I see why

[Man Eating Duck]

Good! I suspected somebody on Slashdot could handle unit conversion :)

I see a new moderation coming along for the benefit (?) of unit-whiners: -1 non-geek...

Re:The solution: Disney's express pass

[Rew190]

As far as I'm concerned, they're already selling out their image by doing nothing (at least at Valleyfair) to constrain crowds or waits.

Understandable. I've never been to Valleyfair, so I don't know what the conditions are. I can tell you at Cedar Point we always run as many trains as we can, we're always pushing our ride ops to squeeze in more rides per hour, etc. If that's the case at Valleyfair, they've already done what they can.

An express system would only piss people off if it wasn't generally for sale to everyone. I don't drive a BMW or live in a mansion, but it doesn't piss me off that some people can.

I think the car metaphor would be closer if we were comparing it to a tollbooth. Imagine you were on the highway and you're coming up to a tollbooth. There's a 15 minute line. Suddenly you see 5 BMWs just drive right up and "budge" you in line. The toll people don't care, because they're driving BMWs, and since they paid more for their cars they can get in front of you and make you wait longer, despite the fact that you have done nothing wrong. (I know about EZ-pass etc, but it doesn't fit in with this)

Re:I see why

[TomServo]

I am no good at physics, but according to a guy on Fark (and some other folk backed him up), assuming a constant rate of acceleration out of the gate (which is probably a flawed assumption), the riders would experience about 1.375 Gs from the launch. That's pretty massive, and I would imagine that it has a stronger launch for the first two seconds, if only because of wind resistance as it gets up to speed.

Re:The solution: Disney's express pass

[swb]

I know about EZ-pass etc, but it doesn't fit in with this

Except that EZ-Pass is exactly like that! We all pay "admission" (taxes) to the "amusement park" (roads). If you buy an EZ-Pass, you get to jump ("express lane") the queue ("traffic jam").

Furthermore, as relatively expensive as most theme parks are (admission, food, etc) they're not attracting affluent customers (at least not based on the people I've seen). A premium pass that entitled you to much shorter lines would attract more affluent customers, which should make the park more money, which should mean more rides, which should mean overall shorter lines for everyone.

Even if you're diametrically opposed to premium queuing, how about having one or two days per month where the admission is double but the park limits admissions such that the ride waits will *always* be shorter? I'd go for that too, although I think it wouldn't do anything for enhancing revenue or overall service.

Anyway, I hope the park people are listening. I and others like me are out there and are willing to pay much more to ride the rides. They can either stay with their equality model and perhaps lose my business altogether, or they can acknowledge it and maybe gain more of my business.

Re:The solution: Disney's express pass

[TomServo]

You're completely right about this. Six Flags (at least Magic Mountain in Valencia, CA) has started using their "Fastlane" passes. For $15, you buy four fastlane passes, and they get you into the line about 2/3 of the way in. Problem is, it just makes the rest of the line take that much longer, and in my experience, almost starts class warfare. We got some for X when it first opened, and the people waiting in the normal line got so angry about fastlane people that they had to have security all through the ride queue to keep things in check.

They've since made it so fastlane can't be used on X or Deja Vu, their two newest and meanest rides.

The Disneyland appointment system is a *far* superior system for both the riders & the park. The riders don't have to stand in a queue forever (X was reported to have 7 hour waits on Memorial Day last year), so they get to wander the park. People wandering the park tend to go into the shops or eat food, so the park makes more money. The park can't make any money off you if you're standing in a queue...

Re:This is too much

[Kintanon]

As a sidenote, for people who do find themselves in Jersey, do not EVER EVER EVER pull up to a gas station and yell, "Hey Gas Monkey! Fill it up!" they don't like that...

Kintanon

Re:The solution: Disney's express pass

[Rew190]

(This post is referring specifically to Cedar Point, not amusement parks in general. Although I'm employed there, I don't speak for CP, these are just my observations)

This is not like EZ-Pass. Assuming you got EZ-Pass so you wouldn't have to wait in lanes (as opposed to just so you wouldn't have to carry toll change in your car), EZ-Pass is only really effective if you have a lane that's only for EZ-Pass; this way, you do not have to be held up by those without it. This doesn't bother other communters, since the EZ-Pass folks are not increasing their wait time by skipping ahead of them. As you mentioned, we all pay taxes to use the roads, so why should it be that those who are willing to pay more somehow have the right to increase our waiting time at toll booths? This is not a factor in EZ-Pass, which is why it is effective. This would not work for a large amusement park ride because the people who are paying extra are adding significant waiting time by legally cutting in front of those who paid regular park admission. I find this unfair to the regular guest who fairly paid their admission. Even if you had an entirely seperate line, premium payers would still use up trains and load/unload time which increases the time that the other non-premium guests have to wait. Essentially, non-premium guests are being penalized for not paying extra money. This pisses people off and is contradictory towards Cedar Point's biggest staple, guest service.

A premium pass that entitled you to much shorter lines would attract more affluent customers, which should make the park more money, which should mean more rides, which should mean overall shorter lines for everyone

In all harsh honesty parks aren't after rich folks and don't really care too much about those with money, since that's a smaller demographic. We won't cater specifically to the affluent even if they're willing to pay more money, because this will piss off the general public who don't want to spend outrageous amounts of money to not have to wait in line. When you're talking about a park as large as Cedar Point, it's going to take a LOT of these passes to actually bring in enough money to make a dent in the budget of a new ride. If you've got that many people skipping ahead of everyone else who didn't pay the premium price, chances are that they're not going to be happy and not want to come back to the park. Not only is this bad guest service, it's also bad money-wise. Bad experiences will not make guests want to come back. Bad park reviews will not help the cause either. No guests=no park.

Even if you're diametrically opposed to premium queuing, how about having one or two days per month where the admission is double but the park limits admissions such that the ride waits will *always* be shorter?

Cedar Point caters to the general public, and doubling prices of tickets goes against that. If you're that opposed to waiting in lines (understandable) then study the park and learn which days tend to have lower attendance and what times of the season to visit. Visit in May on a weekday. I assure you ride times will be minimal. Don't wait until July or August. Keep an eye of the forecast and watch for days when it rains towards the beginning of the day/morning and lets up in the afternoon, but make sure there's no lightning cells in the area.

Anyway, I hope the park people are listening. I and others like me are out there and are willing to pay much more to ride the rides.

We are. This is why we train our ride ops so much, this is why we always run as many trains as possible on the more popular rides, this is why CP is given awards for best park capacity in the world. We design rides around capacity. I definitely understand where you're coming from, and I assure the numbers are crunched and new ideas are always being considered to cut wait times without comprimising the general guest experience.

Re:The solution: Disney's express pass

[Rew190]

I forgot to mention that Cedar Point has a Joe Cool club. If you're a member, you can walk into the park an hour before opening time (although food stands, game stands, etc won't be up and the park will still be in the process of getting setup) and ride a few of the rides. Last year, the rides you could go on included Millenium Force and Wicked Twister. This year will probably be those two and Dragster. This is one of our solutions. You can also walk into the park an hour early if you're staying at one of CP's on-site hotels.

Re:The solution: Disney's express pass

[swb]

I disagree with your analysis of EZ-Pass -- in many cases the express lanes are only available for a portion of a freeway, meaning that people with EZ-Pass are "cutting ahead" of people without it, since while they may leave the "free" freeway behind cars without it, they re-enter when the express lane ends *ahead* of them by being able to go faster on a less crowded or shorter road. IIRC its exactly this way on the 91 freeway near Riverside.

And I also question how much this would piss people off. It doesn't seem to bother anyone at Disney that some people ride with little or no queuing. If I hadn't been clued into it, I wouldn't have even *noticed* or used Disney's Fastpass.

I'm just suggesting that they extend this concept so that you get *more* of it on a given visit, and that by charging signifcantly more for it you would limit the number of people using it to a number small enough that it would have a negligable impact on the standard queue.

Futhermore, there's nothing *unfair* about it -- it'd only be unfair if the passes weren't generally available to people willing to pay for it. Or is the "theme" of Cedar Point life in the Soviet Union -- everybody stands in line for everything... :)

Re:The solution: Disney's express pass

[Rew190]

The entire highway/tollbooth metaphor never concerned the roads before or after it. The only thing we care about is the fact that you're waiting in a line.

Imagine that you're in a 20 minute wait for the tollbooth. You pay your taxes, etc. Now imagine that a car drives up from behind you and cuts in front of your line. He doesn't get behind you, he doesn't go to another line, he gets right in front of you. Now imagine that another car gets in front of you. And another one. Suddenly your 20 minute wait is extended by another 15 minutes. Did you not pay your taxes? Why is it you should be waiting additional time because these folks are willing to pay more? Are you saying you wouldn't be put off at all by that? If that's what you're implying, I'm sure you're in the minority. If folks want to pay extra for short waits then that's great, but it cannot add onto the waits of others (who've paid their taxes and done nothing wrong) significantly.

And I also question how much this would piss people off.

Go to a Six Flags park that has Fast Lane and watch on a busy day. I've been there and seen it. Someone actually posted one of their experiences in one of the parent posts.

I'm just suggesting that they extend this concept so that you get *more* of it on a given visit, and that by charging signifcantly more for it you would limit the number of people using it to a number small enough that it would have a negligable impact on the standard queue.

Ahhh, but we already do this to an extent. And it's free. Refer to one of my previous posts in this branch.

Futhermore, there's nothing *unfair* about it -- it'd only be unfair if the passes weren't generally available to people willing to pay for it.

The fact of the matter is that a system that would allow a lot of people to skip ahead of the others is screwing the others out of a ride. I suppose the word "unfair" isn't the correct word to use here in a rigid sense. Let's just say it would be a really shitty thing to do to our guests who expect to get on rides without an extended wait for the money they paid, and we simply won't do it.

It doesn't seem to bother anyone at Disney that some people ride with little or no queuing

Disney does something that's fundamentally different. I don't recall exactly what it is so I won't really comment on it. I BELIEVE they pretty much schedule everyone for a ride and you just come back at your scheduled time or something on that idea. Keep in mind that Disney is a theme park, as well. The rides aren't quite as important as much as the theming.

Or is the "theme" of Cedar Point life in the Soviet Union -- everybody stands in line for everything... :)

AH! But Cedar Point is NOT a theme park! ;)

Re:I see why

[reanjr]

Ignoring wind resistance in skydiving (very important, but makes things far too difficult), it would be 2.5 Gs using your 10 second estimate on skydiving. But according to real physics, it would be about 1.34 Gs. If this were straight down, though, on would only really experience 0.34Gs. Huh... not very impressive sounding. On the other hand, it it were straight up, you would experience 2.34 Gs, which sounds a bit more fun.

King's Dominion (VA) Hypersonic XLC

[Kaz Riprock]

This seems very similar to KD (VA)'s Hypersonic XLC which uses a compressed air system to launch at 80 MPH to go up 170 ft and over a crested hill and down through some more hills before finishing. It's about a 45 second ride and very exciting (especially at the launch section with the countdown light bar).

This is like the big-daddy version of the same coaster (although the 270 twirl on the way down seems like a very cool addition). I really enjoyed the airtime at 200 ft from 80 MPH to 20 MPH flipping over the summit. I imagine the view from twice as high at 1.5 times as fast will be that much cooler.

Re:This is too much

[geekoid]

I am curious on why you dn't like full service gas stations?

I live in Oregon, and we have attendence that pump gas. It is seldom called 'full-service' because they only pump gas. Fukkk-sevice does windows.

After living most my life in California, I actually like not getting out in the rain to pump gas.
While I belive that it is not safer then if I pump my own gas, but it is not less safe, either.

Actually, in California, people would use the time your paying for your gas to steal your car, So I could see where having an attendant is safer.
whilke I'm thinking at it, if it employees more people, wouldn't that cut down on overall crime?

Once I say a guy spill about a gallon of gas trying to pump has own, so there is another case where it is safer to have it pumped.

And now I'm not breasthing the cancer causing fumes, well less of them. So it is safer because of that.

I could probably site many examples of things that went wrong because of somebody inproperly pumping gas.

Sure You and I can do it, but you are also relying on the guy that pulls in next to you not make any mistakes as well.

As far as roller coasters are concerned, the faster, twister, and higher, the better.

Furious

[skedstar]

Because, it's not about time, it's about intensity and accelleration.

6.7 seconds in my fuel altered is so intense, you'll never complain about the fact that it's only 6 seconds (that is, if you don't pass out)