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Mozilla Project Turns 5
GreyWolf3000 writes "As this notice in tinderbox shows, Mozilla turns five years old today. A great testament to the ability of open software models debunking the myth that while the community can hack a kernel or compiler together, we can't build a large scale project designed for everyday folks to use. The trunk is feature frozen for the upcoming alpha release for 1.4. Can't wait to see what's in store next!" Read on for another odometer reading -- Mozilla's 200,000th bug report, perhaps just as auspicious a landmark.
zzxc writes "The 200,000th bug has been filed in Mozilla's bugzilla, MozillaZine reports. It was filed at 5:11pm EDT. (21:11GMT) The bug, which is already 'verified invalid,' is 'MailNews crashes after extremely long 'joke of the day' html spam mail.' This comes on the 5 year anniversery of the release of Netscape's source code, also reported by MozillaZine. Bug 100000 was opened on 9/16/01 after three years of development, while bug 200000 comes in less than 19 months from the previous milestone."
That's only 109 bugs a day! Just goes to show you open source software IS less buggy than commercial!
The kitchen sink that is now also included in Mozilla. Story here.
0.6 is meant to be released RSN, they're going to announce the new name shortly, in fact.
Just have some patience, and hopefully it'll be worth it!
This project has proven several things about large scale open source projects:
- Open source doesnt necessarily mean "instant development". It took over a year before anything useful came of the project.
- Just because you release something as open source, doesnt mean that thousands will flock and provide free development. Though thousands did flock, as soon as they saw that the code wasnt nearly usable, they gave up immediately. But, now that there is a small core of developers working on it, it is a useful product.
- Now that it has made some progress, it is more difficult for a closed-source company to compete with it. It exists, and will be difficult to eliminate... There is no company to go out of business to cause Mozilla to disappear.
It was about then I started to build it! :)
"...debunking the myth that while the community can hack a kernel or compiler together, we can't build a large scale project designed for everyday folks to use..."
Not wanting to rain on their parade, as I agree that Mozilla is a great project, but isn't the only reason they have succeeded building a "large scale project" because of the significant backing of one company (Netscape/AOL)? While the community certainly had a very significant contribution, I think we might be giving it a little more credit than it is due.
Read reviews of shopping cart software
Couldn't agree more, Moz is great, but Opera is hands down the fastest, most configurable, lightest browser I have ever dealt with. Perhaps a joint venture could emerge, I shall call him Mozera.
Useless sig.
Ohmigod, where the hell has my life gone?!?!?!?!?!? I'm still even using the same freaking monitor!
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
I should have asked that question before I repsonded, or better, waited for the answer...
giel.y contains 2 shift/reduce conflicts
http://www.opera.com
Seriously.
Actually, Windows 3.1, 95 and 98 were all OS "descents". ;-)
outside of: "Tabbed browsing r0}{!!!"
Lets see who have I converted...
;-). I did turn a few people online to Phoenix and Mozilla with some luck though. I guess it's easier to convert those you personally know... so go celebrate 5 years and convert some more people over!
My Dad. Hated popups. Instead of giving him a popup blocker for IE I just installed Mozilla for him and switched his Outlook to Mozilla Mail/News. It did a fine job of importing his contact list. He got nimda through an email which infected his machine when he was using Outlook, so I explained to him that with MozMail he'd be ok. After several months use he loves it. No more bad popups for him while browsing, and email has been just fine.
That's my only personal success story, maybe if I got out more often
----------
Check out my blackbox styles
What kind of a cake would a computer program want? Strawberry flavor?
The fact is, I needed a browser and email client that is *more* than spartan to replace what I was using, and for mail that was an OS/2 program. With all that Mozilla Mail has, the OS/2 program still has a feature or two I'd like to see added to Mozilla.
But the bigger thing is that for Microsoft to be displaced to any degree, the software that does it *has* to be blessed with good features. I has to be more than spartan. And like IE, which really isn't free, Mozilla not only gives the impression of free, but *is* free. And 'free' is also required for sucess.
I keep hoping the bugs will be fixed in the next release, but so far no joy. The biggest feature I'd like to see is stability. Type ahead find is a really cool feature, but I'd trade it in a minute if the damn program didn't crash every couple days.
AccountKiller
How about releasing an IE-killer sometime?
I think that's exactly what Phoenix is. Everyone I've introduced to Phoenix has adopted it, including a few non-techies in their late-40s. Pop-up blocking/whitelisting and tabbed browsing are "killer" features, and IE will eventually adopt them or face a serious reduction in usage.
The Mozilla suite is great and all, but, IMO, the primary benefit of the project is as a codebase for other projects, such as Phoenix, Camino, Minotaur/Thunderbird, etc.
Most configurable ? Have you ever seen the about:config page in Mozilla ? ;)
Guvf vf abg n EBG zrffntr
I remember back then when Netscape was a powerful company and had more users then MSIE. Those were the days...
It's as easy as unchecking the "Chatzilla" box on install, man. YOu can install the browser alone and, for my money, it rocks Pheonix. Phoenix is buggy, and many, many, many of the preferences still aren't available (except as manual hacks). Sure, I don't mind getting down and dirty with my software, but my parents and my girlfriend (whom I moved over to Mozilla) wouldn't be into that.
Besides, I'm sure most people have a system nowadays that will barely register the tiny fraction of a second or the small bit of RAM that Phoenix saves them.
5 years and they haven't even reached 1.4? In 5 years Microsoft went from 3.0 to 95. Pick up the pace, people.
He must have invented mozilla to celebrate.
Mozilla's successes have almost all been side effects. An open bug database is one of the most revolutionary development practices that I have ever seen. Because of Bugzilla, Mozilla has far more useful features than it otherwise would have. If users hadn't been able to get through to developers I doubt that Mozilla would have popup and image blocking.
Mozilla's release schedule with nightly builds has also been a huge sucess. Mozilla has more people testing very recent versions than any other peice of software I know. Mozilla is now the most stable browser I have ever used, and I don't doubt that the nightly builds (and some talented developers) are the reason.
Hopefully now that Mozilla is very popular it will attract enough outside developers so that Netscape's original dream of no cost development to win the browser war. There are still some hurdles for developers though. Mozilla is a complicated project with a significant learning curve. It relies on some specific technologies such as XUL and XCOM which don't yet have large numbers of developers.
There is no kitchen sink in Mozilla and there will not be in the foreseeable future. Read the bug.
About as funny as jokes about Clinton's infidelity, or cigars, or blue dresses.
I'm scared of numbers that can't be written as a fraction. It's an irrational fear.
I've loved Mozilla since I first used it 2 years ago.
However, with 1.3, I've found one problem. It seems that the "Open Unrequested Windows" option for javascript (used to block popups) is missing now. I haven't been able to find it on new installations to turn it off.
If anyone knows where it moved to (or if I'm just hallucinating), please let me know.
The following message should be appearing in the Mozilla newsgroups any time now:
0 00
S lashdotter category.
:-)
A few minutes ago, at 13:11 PST on 2003-03-31, the 200,000th bug was filed in http://bugzilla.mozilla.org:
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=200
Rather fittingly, it was filed by Chris Hofmann, head honcho of Netscape's embedding team and staunch Mozilla supporter, and is titled "joke of the day spam mail crash". (Note: please don't mess with the bug.)
Consulting my records, I see that the closest guess to the actual date and time was made by:
1st: 2003-04-01 00:00:01 bradangelcyk@hotmail.com (10 hrs, 50 mins)
a mere 10 hours and 50 minutes out. Congratulations to him; he wins a Mozilla 1.0 CD if he sends me his address.
Runners-up:
2nd: 2003-04-02 10:15:36 coch@myrealbox.com (45 hrs, 05 mins)
3rd: 2003-04-02 16:12:44 crisscott@netzero.net (51 hrs, 02 mins)
coch@myrealbox.com wins the I-have-a-Bugzilla-account-and-so-am-not-a-random-
Not every entry had an equal chance of winning the prize. Nine people submitted dates which were before the contest started (clue: this year is 2003, chaps, not 2002), and several people thought we were going to file 20,000 bugs in a matter of about a week. One person thought that he'd get away from the crowd by guessing a date in the 13th month of 2003 (what does he know that we don't?), and the furthest out two guesses had us still struggling towards the mark this time next year.
Thanks to all who took part
Gerv
Isn't Netscape 7.02 based on Mozilla? Ok not the most popular of browsers but still in reasonably wide use.
http://www.hawknest.com/
I've been using both for a few months now, as just browsers, nothing additional for Moz, and it seems like the nice things about Mozilla outweigh the speed of Phoenix. I like them both, quite a bit, it has completely replaced IE on my Windows box, but Mozilla just seems more polished. I'm sure Phoenix will rapidly improve, but it just doesn't seem like it offers much of an advantage. If I were still on my old Pentium Laptop, I might have a different opinion, but for now, I'm sticking with mozilla.
Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
http://www.konqueror.org http://www.apple.com/safari Seriously. Do you work for Opera Software or something? Your other post was also a plug for Opera. Opera is proprietary software, which I'll never use since I value my freedom. Even the "free" (as in beer) version comes with a huge frickin' banner ad built into it, which is a true sign of scumware. It also isn't the fastest browser anymore, and has never been the most capable. And Mozilla is an IE killer in my opinion. It has some great features than IE lacks such as popup blocking and image blocking. It just isn't my absolute favorite (though still great!)
1) don't throw out the old code and start again.
-if they had built on the old Netscape code things would have proceeded faster. an open source project needs at least something to build on, or tear apart.
2) don't expand the scope of the project before you have something that works.
-using the browser to also do the interface instead of using system widgets. who's idea was that?
i like mozilla. i used it for over 2 years before Safari came along.
Computing power doubles every 18 months? Is that the correct quote by the Intel dude?
Thanks to the increasing computing power, and the 4 GB memory chips coming out, we'll be able to continue using Mozilla for a while.
I was worried about nothing. Phewww!
The trunk is feature frozen for the upcoming alpha release for 1.4.
While a minor mistake, the Mozilla is in feature freeze for the 1.4 BETA release, it's already in "alpha".
"Microsoft made history today, when the total number of bug reports for the various versions of the Windows shell and operating system eclipsed the total population of the planet..."
One thing I hate.. but I can't all it a bug is that when I open a link in a new window or tab and it fails to connect, the browser shows a stupid dialog box and the URL of that page is about:blank.
This way I can't refresh because I lost the URL.
Sometimes I open several tabs and I need to know which links correspond to the failed windows so that I can reopen.
I think IE tries to connect twice before failing.
Fear is the mind-killer.
then came Phoenix. Much smaller, I think somewhat faster and it works with sites that mozilla (for whatever reason, I don't know) wouldn't work with - First USA online was my personal pet peeve.
Just have some patience, and hopefully it'll be worth it!
I think .05 is already worth it. I haven't really run into many issues personally. What's new in 0.6?
Posted using Phoenix 0.5 / Linux (RH 7.3)
back to work...
Computer Science is Applied Philosophy
Sorry, but very few "normal" people use Mozilla. It's the geek world (including windoze geeks) at this point...
But it is gaining more widespread acceptance. I've converted a couple people in the past few weeks. And I'm sure more will follow. Pop-up blocking is the major selling point so far.
neurostarI don't know about you guys, but for me and my OS X Box, Mozilla is #1. Safari is too buggy and doesn't support squat, Chimera is also too buggy, Opera is a joke, and IE is even worse. Try the nightly's of Mozilla, at least for me they are fast, bug free, and support virtually everything.
I don't know what you guys are talking about, cause other than it's laughable email-client, Mozilla is an IE killer.
Best. Webhost. Ever. Dreamhost.
I love how Netscape, since they own the rights to the Mozilla code, uses it directly for their browser... except like a year after Mozilla implements it. They're like the older, slower brother.
-------
"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
-- George Orwell
Well, I don't know what normal is, but I'm converting all my clients to it. So that'll make 50-100 computers using it. I wouldn't call it slow, it's nice and zippy on my 1gig t-bird. Hasn't crashed once, and I'm doing quite a few odd things with it. *shrug*
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
http://www.apple.com/safari
Where's the non-Mac version?
Opera is proprietary software, which I'll never use since I value my freedom.
That's your choice, but I don't understand how somebody making proprietary software infringes on your freedom.
Even the "free" (as in beer) version comes with a huge frickin' banner ad built into it, which is a true sign of scumware.
The banner is only "huge" if you're running at 640x480... And it's not scumware, either; the browser reports no information about your computer to Opera. You can also customize what types of banners are shown; in fact, I have a friend who paid for Opera and actually keeps the banner on because he frequently sees banners for products he's interested in.
It also isn't the fastest browser anymore, and has never been the most capable.
I can't say about Safari, since I can't use it, but Opera 7 is still the fastest browser I've used, and 6 is only marginally slower. "Capable" is a relative term, but I've yet to see another browser that has features such as integrated mouse gestures (gotta have a plugin for Mozilla), a quick-preference menu (pressing F12 brings up a list of the most handy preferences), and an easy way to fake the browser ID string (possible in Mozilla only if you're willing to manually edit config files).
It also has better user-defined CSS support than other browsers I've seen. It even comes with a number of pre-defined CSS layouts that do interesting things such as emulate text-only browsers, outline structural elements on a page, remove tables, hide only non-linking images, and so forth. Also, in the event that it crashes, it can re-open all the tabs you had open previously (I believe one of the Mozilla offshoots can do this, but I haven't seen any other browser).
Karma: Terrifying (mostly affected by atrocities you've committed)
I agree. Much better than having the difference between version 6 and version 7 being significantly less than the difference between version 4 and version 6.
Seriously, it's like a race to see who can have the highest version number sometimes. That doesn't impress me. This is almost as bad as the MHz myth. Internet Explorer is still at version 6, and people like it.
Follow me
" A great testament to the ability of open software models debunking the myth that while the community can hack a kernel or compiler together, we can't build a large scale project designed for everyday folks to use."
It took nearly 5 years to get to version 1. At that rate, a few monkeys accessorized with keyboards could have accomplished that.
Don't get me wrong, Mozilla's a wonderful tool for the interent. I'm glad to see IE getting a run for its money. I just don't feel that any myths were shattered here.
1.) It took aaaaaaaaages.
2.) For the most part, the hard work was done and the tough decisions were made. Mozilla wasn't exactly paving the way for the internet as we see it today.
3.) It was necessary. Linux needed a AAA browser. If a good browser for Linux wasn't in demand, how far would it have gone?
I guess what I'm saying is that it's a logical evolution, not necessarily a challenge for the community. Get the community to put together an ambitious game, then we'll shatter a few myths.
I was going to say something really inspirational and uplifting here but my darn browser crashed and I lost my train of thought. Trust me...it was profound.
:-)
Anyway, kudos to the Mozilla team. Long live Mozilla! Cross platform browsers rock!
Hey...I know this is probably a bad venue for a bug report but the new Junk mail filtering doesn't seem to work if you're using movemail. Can you guys take a look at this please
-- Good judgement comes with experience. -- Experience comes with bad judgement.
i think mozilla while a great engine in geko dropped the ball.. the fact that apple chose khtml over geko is really something they shoudl think about. The mozilla team should have focused on getting something that *works well* out then adding features and not the other way around. oh yeah and the red star communst logo is really sad.
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
At my previous job at a Fortune-100 company, the proprietary bug database we used kept track of the Bug ID with an unsigned 16-bit number.
Yep, to the surprise and dismay of many, we overflowed at bug# 65537
Computer Science is Applied Philosopy...
I couldn't agree more. As a software engineer with ~15 years experience... and a BA in Philosophy.
Indeed, I worked my way through school as a programmer and chose philosophy on purpose because I found that's where the logic courses were.
(I also took a lot of physics and math which no doubt helps, but the degree is philosophy) I feel the study of various logical abstractions helped widen my perspective. Not to mention you are trained to diagram any set of concept/relationships, which is also quite useful. My diagrams have consistent grammer, and I'm sure this is because I was trained how to create a legend that maps directly to real concepts (e.g. an arrow means something, and is only used for truly identical relationships. Of course, the arrow might mean different things in different diagrams, but within a given diagram: consistency). I'm not sure all Philosophy programs are so rigerous about logic... but it is the one thing, the only thing, that philosophers have any agreement over.
-pyrrho
It's awesome we're even still talking about Mozilla considering the doom and gloom that was spewed because it didn't result in an instant competitor to IE.
Mozilla isn't perfect, but we're all better off living in world with a valid browser alternative.
OddManIn: A Game of guns and game theory.
I upgraded from Netscape 4.7x as my email client. The email client had all the features I wanted, and everything worked great. I decided to upgrade to Mozilla 1.2.x and most things have worked. Grabbed the spellchecker plugin and gpg, all set.
// This one makes a huge difference. Last value in milliseconds (default is 250) // Enable pipelining:, true);u ests", 64); // Specify the amount of memory cache in kilobytes:i ty", 10240); // Click on throbber to go to Phoenix Help:w w.googl e.com/"); // Change to normal Google search:; // disable target="_blank" (open in same window):d ow", true); // Stop reusing active windows:e c", false);
Only problems I have now, is I want to use Mozilla 1.2.x for email, and also run 1.4 to support and bugcheck. Pain in the ASS. Trying to switch back and forth is a headache. And I dont want to move my data from 2 different versions.
Onto my work machine. (laptop w/docking station aka slow hd)
Mozilla uses way too much resources compared to IE. So I use Crazy Browser. An IE wrapper that ads tabs and popup control, freeware too.
I thought Phoenix would be worth switching from crazy browser, but It still has too much Mozilla bloat at the moment. (I'm sure they will lean that puppy down, but its a work in progress...)
The pre-temp save bug is annoying and locks mozilla while its busy. Windows says its "Not Responding". Bug 129923
But on a fast PC, Mozilla rips IE apart. I added them to my user.js incase anyone is interested.
-
user_pref("nglayout.initialpaint.delay", 0);
user_pref("network.http.pipelining", true);
user_pref("network.http.proxy.pipelining"
user_pref("network.http.pipelining.maxreq
user_pref("browser.cache.memory.capac
user_pref("browser.throbber.url","http://w
user_pref("keyword.URL", "http://google.com/search?btnG=Google+Search&q=")
user_pref("browser.block.target_new_win
user_pref("advanced.system.supportDDEEx
I'd just like to say thank you.
What makes you think it ever meant that? GNU C and GNU C++ took years to catch up with the respective standards. Emacs 19 took so long to come out that it was a standing joke. So what? That's not the point. Open source software development is slow, but it's steady, and an open source software package keeps on living as long as it has users.
Just because you release something as open source, doesnt mean that thousands will flock and provide free development.
What makes you think open source has ever been about "flocking"? Many open source projects have tightly knit, small developer communities that you couldn't become a part of if you wanted to. They do their stuff at their own pace and share the results with others.
Of course, because Mozilla started out as a closed source project using "professional, industry-standard development practices" it really started out as much more of a mess than an equivalent open source project. And the extensive support for proprietary platforms like Windows and Macintosh also greatly complicates Mozilla. Konqueror is a much better example of open source at work, and it matured much faster than Mozilla.
Now that it has made some progress, it is more difficult for a closed-source company to compete with it.
Good. That will mean that we don't get the same madness we had with Netscape vs. IE, with each company out-featuring the other. I'm glad to see, actually, that Mozilla isn't rushing out to copy every misfeature IE has introduced.
It exists, and will be difficult to eliminate... There is no company to go out of business to cause Mozilla to disappear.
Yup, that's the whole point. Now, if only IE went away as well, we'd all be better off.
The most relevant fact in this whole discussion is that Mozilla still exists. If Netscape software had remained closed source, it would have disappeared with AOL's absorption of Netscape. Keeping software available long after the initial creators have disappeared is what open source is all about, and no matter what you may think of Mozilla technology, that makes Mozilla an unqualified open source success.
I don't see many situations where people actually SAY they appreciate all the effort behind the code, but since Mozilla was released with tabbed browsing, it has become probably the one app that I use the most. It's not 100% perfect (nothing really is), but it's a damn fine job. *I* appreciate it. : )
-1 Flamebait? This doesn't look like a flamebait or a troll to me...and I used IE for God knows how long. *g*
-uso.
In Soviet Russia, all our base are belong to YOU!
Dreams, dreams, don't doubt dreams, dreaming children's dreaming dreams. Sailor Moon SS
Everytime I try to view one of Google News's subsections (World, Entertainment, Business, etc), Mozilla locks up, and takes down the entire operating system too (seems like the entire file system stops responding after a minute or so), forcing a hard reboot. Every single last time.
I'm using Windows ME, and the latest version of Mozilla (1.3).
Does this happen to anyone else?
Here is a link to the World section you can try (SAVE YOUR WORK BEFORE IN CASE!):
http://news.google.com/news/gnworldleftnav.html
Google News is pretty plain as web pages go.. wtf is going on here? Is Moz messed up or do I have midget monkeys in my box pissing on the CPU?
"Mind, as manifested by the capacity to make choices, is to some extent present in every electron." -Freeman Dyson
A great testament to the ability of open software models debunking the myth that while the community can hack a kernel or compiler together, we can't build a large scale project designed for everyday folks to use.
hahaha....like a kernel isn't a large scale project designed for everday use.
SIGFAULT
It'll also be harder for closed-source to compete on a feature-by-feature basis.
I used 3.01 (!) for years because it was vastly easier (but still required a dropdown) to toggle image loading and Javashit; the options required a dropdown and single-tab menu. Inconvenient, but not too bad.
When I saw those options buried under a hierarchical menu in 4.x (presumably as an attempt to dissuade folks from turning 'em off - more ad revenue, more popups, and who cares if the browser crashes every time some malformed Javashit decides to blow it to smithereens), I regarded 4.x as a downgrade, not an upgrade.
It wasn't until I saw the XUL-Planet "preferences toolbar" with Mozilla 1.x that I had the kind of user control that - for all intents and purposes - should have been available in 1996.
On one hand, I'm still ch33z3d that it took seven years to fix a usability "bug" first introduced in 4.01.
On the other hand, looking at the trend towards adware and bannerware in closed-source software, I'm pretty sure that were it not for Mozilla, there'd have been no fix for that UI misfeature - ever.
"...a large scale project designed for everyday folks to use."
Mozilla is a lot of things, including my primary browser across three platforms.
However whenever I point out the lack of "completeness" especially with regards to documentation and formalisation of a product, I'm reminded (usually quite gently, bless the developers) that mozilla isn't and never was intended to be a complete browser. I'm told it's intended as a code base, a core for others to use, but it's not supposed to be a feature-and-document-complete browser.
So while I admire the team greatly and use the code constantly, it's not really a product for average users.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
The way I see it, Mozilla and Opera fills a valuable role as the browser that comes out with leading edge/bleeding edge features first. Netscape incorporates what's in Mozilla shortly after they're proven, and then MSIE scrambles to catch up with Mozilla. I'm not disappointed that it doesn't have a big chunk of the desktop; what I'm disappointed in is the courts and the government, who haven't done the job of restraining Microsoft in its attempts to wreck the competition. Anyhow, I am loving Mozilla 1.3: have been enjoying tabbed browsing for a while now (coming soon to IE, I hear), and am just loving the popup suppression in this latest version. I run it as the default browser on all of my desktops, and the xft font package on Linux looks fantastic. I am patient enough to wait for the rest of the world to follow.
Always look on the briight side of life! (whistle, whistle)
I run a two-school network with all kinds of fussy Apple client management software, and IE will no longer cut it for me--it is constantly crashing and freezing many computers. Mozilla, however, is much more stable, configurable, and has more of an educational message behind it (yes, middle schoolers, one day you too can be given CVS check-in permission on a project like this). Happy 5th birthday. Please keep the Mac Classic build going for another year.
It is not them making proprietary software that infringes on my freedom. It is me using proprietary software that infringes on my freedom. I don't have the freedom to understand what it is doing. I don't have the freedom to bug fix or modify it. And with most EULA's, I lose even more freedoms.
Also, in the event that it crashes, it can re-open all the tabs you had open previously (I believe one of the Mozilla offshoots can do this, but I haven't seen any other browser).
Galeon does this. Although it rarely crashes, if it does, you can resume right where you left off. This is also nice if you log off a machine. When you come back, all the pages you were last at come right back. Galeon is the gnome browser based off of gecko. Galeon also has bookmarklets, quick proxy config, quick buttons to modify popup blocking/java/javascript. One of my favorite features is the smart bookmark toolbar which has quick links to google search, dictionary lookup, stock quotes, etc.
I run a small computer consulting business and every machine that goes out the door has Mozilla and OpenOffice.org.
:)
Every costomer I visit gets an introduction to Mozilla and OpenOffice.org.
Every support call I get about an "email" virus gets the "it's not an email virus is't an outlook virus" lecture. try Mozilla.
About 1/3 of the people I talk to blow me off for one reason or another. Ya know familar with IE+LookOut. Don't like change. Hit a website/use software that needs IE+LookOut.
But the next 1/3 (approx) at least use Mozilla or OOo on a semi regular basis with MSoffice and IE+Lookout.
The last 1/3 uses either Mozilla or OOo as their primary tools.
I have found that Home/small office users are the most convertable, for easy reasons. If it is a larger office they have funny, industry specific software that needs IE+LookOut or have dropped big $$$ for several copies of MSoffice and don't want to abandon the "investment".
So for all you evangelists out there your best bet for conversion are SOHO/Home users. Get em before they are brought into the fold.
OK so not exactly earth shattering statistics, but at least helpful, I hope. If anyone has further info pls post back.
Doin' my part to restore balance to the force.
Have you got like some weird must-constantly-rearrange-toolbars fetish or brain tumour or somesuch?
26 px high buttons with no text labels, IE 5.x theme... perfect!
And as far as I'm concerned every other button and arrangement can go fuck themselves!
And if you don't like it then u got the XUL, tweak it and STFU!
It was necessary. Linux needed a AAA browser.
A grade of "AAA" means "full combo, all perfects". That is, no bugs. The only way to guarantee bug-free software is to prove its correctness against the specification. At the current maturity level of software architecture, proving the correctness of a system as complex as a web browser is not feasible.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Agreed. I exclusively use OpenOffice and Mozilla. I'd also be using exclusively linux, but I've got some issues with programs necessary for school (Matlab, Mathematica, etc...) as well as a printer that only does Windows. :-/
neurostarWell, I just found out that there is Matlab for linux... I guess I've just got to get this printer working...
neurostarNow that it has made some progress, it is more difficult for a closed-source company to compete with it.
What competition? Netscape and Opera have about the same market share as Mozilla with respect to Internet Explorer, i.e. not much at all.
It exists, and will be difficult to eliminate...
There has to be something to eliminate first. As of right now Mozilla isn't infringing on Internet Explorer's territory in any way that is either worrying Microsoft or causing a sweeping change in the way websites are designed.
I'll wait until the market shares are comparable before I think about Mozilla "competing" with anything.
The coolest voice ever.
Nerd: Derogatory term typically directed at anybody with a lower Slashdot ID than you.
They're running out of room in 32 bits
Nerd: Derogatory term typically directed at anybody with a lower Slashdot ID than you.
I 'm pretty sure you only needed DOS 5.0 to run Descent but 6.0 had a lot of neat utils like memmaker that helped. DOS could do more than just play Descent but not much and not well, so it really was just a Descent operating system. DOS Quake was good too though.
It's also strange that none of the replies to your excellent post interpretted it correctly.
If Mozilla further bloated its installer by including the features you mentioned, I don't see what would change. Now it's "integrated" into the browser, but everyone who doesnt want it gets to download it anyway and god knows mozilla is too big as it is. The extension system makes sense, download what you want and nothing else.
-people care about the application;
-the application is held to a high standard;
-there will soon be 200,000 things anout which we do not have to worry.
Mozilla has been around for 5 years, with Netscape, and 100s (if not thousands) of developers behind it, and what have we really gotten out of it?
IMO, NOTHING!
Ya, Mozilla might be an alright browser, but not for 5 years worth of work. Everytime I've tried it, I've had nothing but problems with it.
The truth is out now.. Mozilla was originally an April Fool's Joke? But on who? M$?
Hehe..
why does vimacs come to mind?
Selling software wont make you money, selling a service will.
The long time in between releases of Internet explorer has me a bit concerned for Mozilla. It just seems odd that they haven't even come out with 6.5 yet, let alone 7.0. I have heard rumors and the like, but I don't but a lot of faith in those. What I fear is Redmond is sitting back, and watching every move the Mozilla community makes. Then the popular stuff, they are putting into their browser. I would be shocked if that haven't added tabs to the development code yet. On my XP machine I.E. is my primary browser, and I do like how it runs on Windows since it really does run most websites best. I agree many are poorly coded, but there isn't much I can do about that. On my Powerbook though I use Camino and Safari.
In that graph, that red line goes up.
:-)
And the yellow line goes down.
Could that be because Mozilla-based browsers are now numerous to have their own (albeit misnamed) category?
Gerv
I'm still using 1.3a because 1.3 is buggy piece of junk. I'm afraid 1.4 will be even worse. Are they treying to catch up with IE or what ?
), and an easy way to fake the browser ID string (possible in Mozilla only if you're willing to manually edit config files).
n dex.html
Well nope, not only. there's a pluggin for Mozilla that puts the User Agent string as a dropdown on the toolbar: http://www.xulplanet.com/downloads/prefbar/help/i
My Karma: ran over your Dogma
StrawberryFrog
So why did you include a link to Safari, which is likewise proprietary software?
It was made by Netscape.
~CGameProgrammer( );
Happy birthday, Mozilla! :)
n0dez
Even if they were all bugs.
:)
That Mozilla has been and is robust enough to triage that many reports at all (all bugs, all duplicates, all RFEs, some mix of these -- not the point) is the thing that most impresses me.
Considering that many if not most *are* duplicates and generally get quickly marked that way is proof of how well it works.
My mention of 200,000 bugs was an admiring one -- they've built a project so good that (so far) has inspired users nearly a quarter of a million times to point out a flaw or suggest an improvement. That says they're doing something very right
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
...or maybe Oprilla.
The best IE wrapper is Avant Browser [avantbrowser.com]. Crazy Browser just isn't as good. Try both and see for yourself.
"WinME has problems with filesystems like you wouldn't believe."
Oh man, tell me about it. MS has been developing OS's for like 20 years, and they still have persistant problems crop up with such basic operations as deleting and renaming. Blows my mind.
Still.... google is just text and small simple graphics. Mozilla does just fine on everything else for me, so hard to believe something like google could cause such a cluster fuck.
Thanks for all the feedback though guys, now at least I know it's uncommon.
"Mind, as manifested by the capacity to make choices, is to some extent present in every electron." -Freeman Dyson
we overflowed at bug# 65537 I'm sorry, but I just gotta. It would actually overflow at 65536 since unsigned 16-bit numbers only go from 0 to 65535. Again, I'm sorry -- obsessive-compulsive-ness is bad.
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