More Thoughts On How to Wire Senegal

An anonymous reader submits "Last month Slashdot published a story on the Peace Corps' plans to wire Senegal. Now Peace Corps Online has published an article by a volunteer who taught computers in West Africa for two years who recommends that the White House's Digital Freedom Initiative abandon the Western paradigm of 'a computer on every desk' and borrow a lesson from telephony in third-world countries. Since a residential telephone line is a luxury item in West Africa, the 'communication center' has flourished as a private business even in the smallest of towns where it generates profits while sharing the high cost of telecommunication among the whole community. This user model coupled with deregulation of VoIP can be the key to implementation of computer technology in poor countries."

Comments

Cool

[invader_allan]

Cool, wire the whole planet baby!

Re:Cool

[Iguanaphobic]

Air Force moving several MOAB bombs to Gulf region: Pentagon

WASHINGTON (AFP) Apr 10, 2003
The US Air Force is moving several 21,000-pound MOAB bombs, the largest US conventional bomb, to the Gulf region, a US defense official said Wednesday.

It was not clear what the air force intends to do with the bombs, which are most effective against troops or tanks in open areas.

"What we were told today is that they are on the way," said the defense official, who asked not to be identified.

He said several were being shipped to the Gulf region.

MOAB stands for Massive Ordnance Air Blast, but it is known informally as the "mother of all bombs."

Developed by the Air Force Research Laboratory at Eglin Air Force Base in Florda, where it was tested last month, the bomb is a larger version of the 15,000 pound "daisy cutter."

The "daisy cutter" was used in Vietnam to clear jungle for helicopter landing pads, in the 1991 Gulf War to clear minefields and in Afghanistan to clear caves and strike fear into al-Qaeda and Taliban fighters.

The MOAB has a satellite guidance system and a tail kit to steer it to within about 13 meters (14 yards) of its target.

It is too big to be dropped normally. It is dragged out of the back of a C-130 cargo plane by a parachute.

These ethylene bombs work by taking advantage of the effect of exploding fuel in the air. When a mix of fuel and air ignites, it creates a fireball and a wave of explosions that spread quickly over a much greater area than traditional explosives. The after-effects of the explosion are very similar to those of small nuclear bombs but without the radiation.

The American cluster bombs carry ethylene gas, of the kind used in the Second Gulf War, in three barrels, each of which weighs 100 pounds. Each barrel contains 75 pounds of ethylene oxide, whose industrial usage is the production of other chemical compounds such glycol ethylene and other highly poisonous compounds.

As for the way in which these bombs work, a fuse ignites the barrel at a height of 30 feet which breaks and opens the barrel, and the fuel is expelled dispersing in the air to create a cloud with a 60-feet radius and 8-feet depth.

The airburst spreads to areas that are difficult to attack with more traditional bombs. The cloud is poisonous in itself, and exposure to ethylene oxide leads to lung decay, headaches, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea and shortness of breath and even cancer and birth defects. The gas is highly combustible and reactive.

After this, the main charge ignites the mix leading to an explosion that spreads at speeds of 3 km a second -- faster than the speed of sound, and the mix of fuel and air burns at 2,700 degrees Celsius. It is possible to increase the effect by using additional warheads.

Traditional explosives such as TNT pack greater explosive power, but the MOAB explodes over a longer period of time and is more destructive, especially in enclosed spaces.

The degree of pressure created by the airburst is twice that of traditional bombs, where the air pressure would only rise to just above 1kg per sq. cm. With the MOAB, the air pressure goes up to 30kg per sq. cm.

The danger doesn't end there. The explosive mix of fuel and air traveling at speeds exceeding the speed of sound leave behind a vacuum that sucks all air and other materials, creating a mushroom cloud. These explosions cause cerebral concussion or blindness, blockage of air passageways and collapse of lungs, tearing of eardrums, massive internal bleeding and displacement and tearing of internal organs, and injuries from flying objects. These are aside from the injuries mentioned above which result from inhalation of this poisonous ethylene oxide cloud.

It is for these reasons that human rights organizations consider these MOABs to be weapons of mass destruction. They don't differentiate between civilian and military targets and their use in populated areas contravenes international agreements relating

Re:Cool

[Anonymous Coward]

OMG... A bomb causing "tearing of internal organs"?!!? If that's not a war crime I don't know what is...

Re:Cool

[geekoid]

No weapon differentiates between military and civillian targets. it is up to the people deploying the weapon.

Based on recent events, the US has gotten pretty damn good at attacking specific tagets, and using force in a very precise mannor.
Yes, there were mistakes, and civillian casualties, but compare those number to what they where using in WWII or vietnam.

Re:Cool

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody gives a flying rat fuck. Go back to www.chomsky.com or whatever virtual Third World utopian shithole you cut-and-pasted this from.

No kidding

[toygeek]

Trying to put a computer in every home? Try getting clean water in every home first. For now lets work on that. We can put in computers once we can help them READ.

Re:No kidding

[k-0s]

See I thought the same thing. Why would you put a computer in every home if said home does not have the power to run the machine, a phone line for basic modem connection or say water to drink so you can live and use the computer. Reading is a good point also.

Re:No kidding

[ralico]

I agree. Let's get priorities straight.
This kind of thinking strikes me as some kind of reverse cargo cult.
That is, the fallacy that if we give a society the implements of technology, then said society will act like a modernized society, improving conditions, because conditions are better in industrialized, modern societies than non-modern societies.

Re:No kidding

[Anonymous Coward]

Trying to put a computer in every home? Try getting clean water in every home first. For now lets work on that. We can put in computers once we can help them READ.

Maybe instead of giving money to countries that hate us anyway we could work on implementing these programs here in the U.S. instead. We should be pulling the military out of every foreign base, put them at the borders as border guards, cut 90% of the military expenditures and give a tax cut to the hard working people of this country for their efforts. Almost $500 BILLION a year is wasted by our war mongering military. We need to cut it so we are no longer a threat to other nations.

Re:No kidding

[Anonymous Coward]

computers will help them tremendously.

a) farmers/businessmen can make more money and be more productive for less work

b) education will improve

These are the keys to lifting people out of poverty. Not free food and welfare.

Re:No kidding

[Daniel_Staal]

And what better way to help them read but to give them the Internet?

Seriously. Do a google search for home-made water filters, see if there is anything they could use. Or on learning to read.

Info can help anyone. They may not use it the way you expect them to. How about using it to work around the corruption in the local school system? Or to just decrese its cost? (A good high school may not even be avalible in some villages.) Let them decide if it is worth using.

Re:No kidding

[obsidian head]

For one thing, you're assuming getting computers trades off with water or reading. This seems false; the goals can coexist.

Second, information technology might help people communicate better and share info. They could share ideas on living more sustainably; get together and build businesses.

Re:No kidding

[Anonymous Coward]

Trying to put a computer in every home? Try getting clean water in every home first. For now lets work on that. We can put in computers once we can help them READ.

This is completely false. Go read about how just one cell phone in a village in a similar country improved both quality of life and economy TREMENDOUSLY for the villagers.

Re:No kidding

[Harry8]

Interesting point. On an individual level it may be more important for someone to be able to read, hell I'd say it's pre-requisite for the command line, at least ;) This, however makes no difference from a policy perspective. Litteracy in the USA & Europe is not 100%, yet there would be screams of protest if all Comp Sci teaching was banned until 100% litteracy was reached. There are those in dirt poor countries who are smart and educated. They may lack money. This 'elite' (for want of a better word, inteligentsia? ) needs to know about whatever technology is going to help their country produce more 'stuff' with the same amount of resources. If that is computers, then great. Producing more stuff, this means more wealth, which should mean more to go around. More to be taxed and spent on litteracy programs, social security, health and all the other stuff that individuals in poor countries so desperately need. However, if people cannot learn because they live in a poor country, so lack the materials (computer equipment) that country will always be poor, will always be reliant on handouts from the rich, and on the recent tragic history of most of Afrcia, probably will probably have to deal with civil war & systemic corruption on an ongoing basis. Are computers the way to go? Well I guess if you can read, there is a hell of a lot that can be found out on the internet. Knowlege is power. Another concern is someone who can read, can get on line, but has no education to be able to assess whether or not a page is full of b-s can cause a hell of a lot of trouble. (Anybody else dissappointed that Thabo Mbeki, president of the Republic of South Africa believes HIV does not lead to AIDS because he saw a site somewhere. 8 million people will die in the next ten years in his country. Are they running the biggest, most prominent safe-sex campaign ever? No need, the link between HIV and Aids is not clear.)

Re:No kidding

[cperciva]

It's not quite that simple. Internet access has some demonstrated benefits in the third world -- if a community has access to the internet, they immediately gain access to information which would be too expensive to provide them with otherwise. Information like how to recognize and treat disease, when and how best to plant their crops, et cetera.

Putting a computer in every home in the third world is absolutely unnecessary at this point; but putting a computer in every community has benefits far exceeding those which could be obtained by spending a similar amount on a water supply.

Re:No kidding

[aengblom]

Trying to put a computer in every home? Try getting clean water in every home first. For now lets work on that. We can put in computers once we can help them READ.

This is such a tired argument. Yes, choosing between water and net access, I'd choose water. But, there is a balance.

Just because there are homeless in the U.S., doesn't mean we should all give up Internet access. (We should find a way to fix that problem, but...)

Guess what, the portion of the population that CAN read can benefit through Internet access. More to the point, that portion of the population, can bring less-well-off up. Can improve efficiency of operations and bring in NEW things to TEACH.

Re:No kidding

[DNS-and-BIND]

Who the hell are you kidding? Two weeks after they install the systems, there will be a line around the block to watch porn of white girls. Fights will ensue, a mafia will form to control the computers, etc etc. Water filters...really.

Re:No kidding

[Dark Lord Seth]

Seriously. Do a google search for home-made water filters, see if there is anything they could use. Or on learning to read.

Your point being? I can google for the construction of thermonuclear weapons, does this automagically mean that I can build one from stuff sold in local stores? I can already imagine myself going to the supermarket for some stuff... "Excuse me, where do you people keep the weapons grade plutionium? Do I get bulk rates for orders over 200 kilograms?" I somehow doubt that would work. Heck, even most water-filters I can't make simply because I won't have a clue where to buy certain parts (We don't have many stores that are common in the US), what those parts are called in dutch and similiar problems.

So instead of just giving them damned water filters you're going to give them the internet? Good luck, I'm sure they would love to spend AGES trying to find something of which they don't know the exact name in their language, but they do know what it does and how it looks like. That is, if they are literate and aren't dying of various diseases. Also, considering even well-educated people fck up terribly from time to time, would you also be willing to man their service desk?

The internet is a lovely medium, yes. However, it's completely useless to a developing third world country. If people are so desperate to lay down internet, why not start at home first? How many villages/towns are their that still don't have ANY broadband possibilities? How many telcom monopolies are ruining the net for nearly anyone? How about creatives solutions for the legendary expensive "last mile" ? First improve at home. Experience the things you can only do by trying. Learn from mistaken around here so when finally the time is there, you can do developing countries in a nice, clean and simple way.

Also, what use is it to LEARN to READ on a WRITTEN medium?

Re:No kidding

[inkedmn]

Way to give these people the benefit of the doubt.

Re:No kidding

[Daniel_Staal]

Give them both, preferably. I'm just saying the Internet isn't as worthless as you seem to think it is. Sheesh, follow my advice and most of the links you will find will need nothing more complicated than a plastic cup to contain the filter in.

As for learing to read on a written medium: most villiages will probably have at least one person who is mildly literate. Give them access, and they can (and will, since it will be something they can sell to the rest) improve their reading. They may even teach others (if only as apprentances).

As I said, you may be surprized at how useful and practical they would find it. If nothing else, they can exchange gripes, solutions, and problems with the next village over.

Re:No kidding

[Anonymous Coward]

>>If nothing else, they can exchange gripes, solutions, and problems with the next village over.

Yeah instead of walking over there and talking to them in person.

Nice recipe for bloated bags of mostly water.

Re:No kidding

[Dark Lord Seth]

Give them both, preferably. I'm just saying the Internet isn't as worthless as you seem to think it is. Sheesh, follow my advice and most of the links you will find will need nothing more complicated than a plastic cup to contain the filter in.

And where, pray tell, would they get a plastic cup? Mind you, were talking mostly about people who live in mud huts in a country most likely torn by civil war, dictatorships and former colonization. The internet isn't worthless, it's a great place for exchanging ideas and opinions (like what I'm doing right now) but a person whose dying of hunger, thirst and an unknown disease couldn't care less about another person's opinions, even if he could read them.

As for learing to read on a written medium: most villiages will probably have at least one person who is mildly literate. Give them access, and they can (and will, since it will be something they can sell to the rest) improve their reading. They may even teach others (if only as apprentances).

Add a classroom & more books and you've got a school. Far more useful, far more effective.

As I said, you may be surprized at how useful and practical they would find it. If nothing else, they can exchange gripes, solutions, and problems with the next village over.

Essentially nothing wrong with that, if we ditch the illeteracy bit. Still though, do you really think it's a good idea for people to start calling eachother "n00bs" in areas where civil wars are more common then not? Nice idea, but I think the situation is a bit too volatile atm.

Re:No kidding

[Anonymous Coward]

Not all water cleaning takes exotic technology. Using the Internet, I found this: http://www.sodis.ch/Text2002/T-Howdoesitwork.htm

Solar water purifying with empty coke bottles reduces the incidence of water-bourne diseases.

Re:No kidding

[Daniel_Staal]

And where, pray tell, would they get a plastic cup? Mind you, were talking mostly about people who live in mud huts in a country most likely torn by civil war, dictatorships and former colonization. The internet isn't worthless, it's a great place for exchanging ideas and opinions (like what I'm doing right now) but a person whose dying of hunger, thirst and an unknown disease couldn't care less about another person's opinions, even if he could read them.

That's the most complicated item, and can be substituted. There's at least one link that needs nothing more than a hole in the ground...

As for dying of hunger, thirst and an unknown disease: most villagers (who this is aimed at) have a stable (if poor) supply of food and water. The resources better food and water supply is mostly knowhow: better planting/harvesting techniques, the above mentioned water filters, better knowledge of nutrition. I'll agree it would be better to send someone over to each village and teach them hands on.

But this is cheaper and almost as effective.

It is a place to start, and they can scratch more than one itch. One person may want to know how to plant their crops. One may want to stop having to carry their water supply everywhere. One may look for a better way to cook their food. One may look up the disease their child has, or learn first aid.

They may even come up with solutions, and share them around. Who better than the next village over to see how to solve a common problem? And this way the solution gets shared. Worldwide even.

This is starting to sound like a software movement I know of. Open Source Development, Real Development! Give the people access to the ability to understand their own problems and share their own solutions.

Their solutions will probably be better then ours.

Re:No kidding

[hazem]

And don't forget useful information like how much my basket of tomatoes sells for in the city. If I don't know, then the middleman gives me as little as possible and I have no way to know how much I'm being ripped off.

I read something about this happening in India when cellphones were distributed to villages. The farmers started getting more for their crops because they could check the rates at the market and demand more from the middle-men.

And to the bit about giving them food, water, and literacy first. Well, I don't know how to grow food, nor purify water, and I don't know if I could teach them how to read. But I do know how to build a computer and a network. Do what you can to help those you can in the ways you know how.

Re:No kidding

[Anonymous Coward]

Who cares? Isn't Senegal in Africa? How about teaching them not to steal the fucking hubcaps and stereo from my car?

Re:No kidding

[ddimas]

Actually in a third world nation the best thing is to get clean water to every community. A good public well, fountain or aquaduct type sytem will do them more good than indoor plumbing at present.

Along the same lines, any computing provided to the community should be cheap for the community, therefore a multitasking solution with accounts for each person in a central location is a bettr solution than a computer in each home.

Re:No kidding

[Anonymous Coward]

Thabo Mbeki believes that they must say this (that he doesn't belive AIDS is caused by HIV) since if he acknowledged that HIV causes AIDS, this would give the HIV infected people in SouthAfrica the right to claim medicines and treatment from the government. Since this would crash the economy - all he can do is to deny. Remember, SA used to be a country on par with the industrialised world and as such it had a certain tendency to give people the "right" to healthcare (unlike any other black nation on the continent). Since then, apartheid has fallen and the socialists have come into power. This naturally have resulted in some traditional socialist rethorics and politics.

The individual is not at the center in SA - the collective is.

The dead in SA will serve the collective by improving the economy. This is what you americans (individualists?) are supporting and what the "civilised world" has been supporting (through the support for the ANC) for years - a socialist government who will gladly sacrifice an individual (as long as its no-one they know personally) for the benefit of the state.

I know that the old apartheid government would make similar choices - but I thought that the "world opinion" was not stupid enough to replace one racist, stateist government with another (albeit with a different colour of their skin - a colour of the skin that seems more palatable internationally).
I was wrong.

Re:No kidding

[andy1307]

Try getting clean water in every home first.

If they didnt have clean water, dont you think they would all be dead by now. Just because they live in Senegal, it doesn't mean they dont have access to clean water or the resourcefullness to get it on their own.

Why bother?

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't exactly imagine africa as being a hotbed of e-commerce. And anyone who can ought to undergo electroshock therapy!

Re:Why bother?

[Anonymous Coward]

In South America, shopping Amazon.com from the Amazon could be a big hit.

Re:Why bother?

[El Mulo]

Are you american? Is that kind of thought... no wonder why the rest of the world hates you, guys.

Re:Why bother?

[Anonymous Coward]

No wonder we hate the rest of the world when they clearly have no sense of humor.

Re:Why bother?

[geekoid]

Yes, because no other country has jack-asses.

If you are going to judge a country on a few jackasses, then you are in for a suprise.
I know its not hard when there is a jackass in the whitehouse, but he won't be there very long.

Re:Why bother?

[Anonymous Coward]

Jackass? At least he's better than the jackOFF we had in there before.

Yeah, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

Who wants to look at porn in public? (Unless of course, that's your thing...)

erm..

[Anonymous Coward]

In impoverished countries, why don't they just feed these people instead of trying to get them to try q2 deathmatch? Who cares about this shit?

I'd say FEED ME before FRAG ME any day.

Re:erm..

[Anonymous Coward]

Does that follow the same logic as:

"In the US, we like to BOMB PEOPLE instead of FEEDING THEM!"

Re:erm..

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, have you ever done LAN gaming? You hardly have to eat for days at a time. What better way to help impoverished, starving countries forget about those pangs of hunger?

How about tackling that AIDS thing first...

[Anonymous Coward]

I swear, the priorities of Governments...

Re:How about tackling that AIDS thing first...

[Anonymous Coward]

Why not work on both? No one said it's computers *OR* AIDS. Different countries have different needs.

Re:How about tackling that AIDS thing first...

[An Onerous Coward]

First, schmirst. I'm guessing that information on AIDS would be one of the most important things that an Internet link would be piping.

AIDS is a huge problem in Africa. It's also a very complex social problem that isn't going to fit well into the "spend X dollars and it's fixed" mold. Education is a major key to reducing the problem. The Internet is a conduit for information. QED.

Re:How about tackling that AIDS thing first...

[Anne Thwacks]

I have no figures, but AIDS is NOT a big problem in WEST Africa - its a big problem in East and South Africa, both of which are as far away culturally and physically from Senegal is as Mexico from new York.

As for the "Let them read first" argument - litteracy rate is higher in Senegal than in the US!

And others have said it here first "In Africa, piped water is often a bigger health risk than a well"

This is why America's assistance is as much of a problem as it is a help - you have no grasp of the problems.

How about...

[The Bungi]

... we try to wire rural Wisconsin? Or Alaska? Or large swaths of the deep south?

And of course this type of thing begs the question - do they want to be "wired"?

Re:How about...

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn, that is a whack troll, bitch. You're a faggot, and most likely a loser as well.

Re:How about...

[plugger]

How about we wire 'em up and ask them?

Re:How about...

[Anonymous Coward]

...or just wire 'em up and throw the switch?

Re:How about...

[chunkwhite86]

Or large swaths of the deep south?

Cause we don't take kindly to this techno garbage down 'round here. Heck, we cant even speel or pre-nance half of these big 'ole con-peuder words anyhow. If it don't done help me get the back 40 plowed any none sooner, I'se dont want it!

Re:How about...

[Anonymous Coward]

You make fun of the South and then advertise the Rush Limbaugh Show where most of his listeners come from. I think you need to check your priorities there son.

Re:How about...

[Anonymous Coward]

Small-town Alaska *is* "wired" (via satellite).

Here's one ISP that I know of that serves the middle of nowhere.

Also, internet-connected computers maintained by a non-profit public health corporation exist in native villages as small as 250 people, in the middle of nowhere (and the middle of the Bering Strait, where it's not exactly cost-effective to pull a wire).

I could give you gory details, but then my client would have to kill me.

Re:How about...

[falsified]

And of course this type of thing begs the question - do they want to be "wired"?

This got pegged as flamebait, but the comment is an important issue. We assume that these remote villages want to be wired and sit on eBay looking for Every Time I Die t-shirts. Bullshit. They might just want to be villages. We colonized these places under the pretense of modernizing the "heathens". Guess what? They didn't want our help! Additionally, a lot of them were doing just fine. For example, the empire of Mali had the most efficient economy in human history - and treated the laborers with respect relative to everyone else back then. Another example? There's considerable evidence that Africans (yes, the black kind!) reached the Americas around 20,000 BC.

However, I think maybe it's too late. They've already been exposed to "modernity" through our sweatshops and militarism. Maybe we should help in providing one of the few good parts of Western society.

Re:How about...

[chunkwhite86]

You make fun of the South and then advertise the Rush Limbaugh Show where most of his listeners come from. I think you need to check your priorities there son.

That connection is a bit of a stretch.

A similarly preposterous stretch would be that I only drive German cars; Germany is against the war on Iraq; I support the war; therefore my priorities are not in order?? Bullshit.

I dont give a damn where his listeners are mostly from. And I'm a conservative who dislikes rednecks. So what?

Re:How about...

[Anonymous Coward]

I dont give a damn where his listeners are mostly from. And I'm a conservative who dislikes rednecks. So what?

Self hate is a horrible thing.

Re:How about...

[Anonymous Coward]

I've spent my life in the DC metro area, I drive an Audi and a BMW, I frequently travel to foreign countries, I dislike rednecks, american cars, nascar, country music, etc.

And I'm a redneck how??

I didn't think so.

Re:How about...

[Anonymous Coward]

I've spent my life in the DC metro area, I drive an Audi and a BMW, I frequently travel to foreign countries, I dislike rednecks, american cars, nascar, country music, etc.

And I'm a redneck how??

I didn't think so.

Yet you vote for Bush? You are one confused person.

Re:How about...

[Anonymous Coward]

Man that tax cut must have really benefited you. Damn those people who make less money then you, right? I'm not going to be like the other guy and call you a redneck, you're a yuppie through and through. How is Bush going to buy your vote in 2004? I mean the country is broke now, he can't kick another tax cut out of this dead horse of an economy.

Re:How about...

[chunkwhite86]

Man that tax cut must have really benefited you.

Apparently not. I just wrote a check for more than $3000 to the IRS.

Damn those people who make less money then you, right? I'm not going to be like the other guy and call you a redneck, you're a yuppie through and through. How is Bush going to buy your vote in 2004?

He isn't going to buy it. I'm going to give it to him, because he's the best candidate for the job. I'm terified to think what might have happened to this country if a liberal were in office through these recent world events. It's a frightening thought.

Just because I'm an "affluent" citizen doesnt mean I'm a yuppie, nor does it mean that I have no regard for those whose income is below mine. I wouldn't consider myself a "die hard" conservative either - I don't like the NRA, I stongly dislike some Republican politicians, and I believe in some of the causes the ACLU works for. I don't strongly associate myself with either political party because I don't agree 100% with either one. I do however find the the conservatives (the hawks at least) represent my interests way more often than the liberals do, which is why I've historically voted republican. I pick the candidate which "sucks the least". Usually thats a person on the right. Sometimes it's someone from the left.

Just my 2 cents.

Re:FP

[Anonymous Coward]

hehehe

it sure sucks to be you

Amen

[Gefiltefish11]

A computer on every desk does indeed sound like somebody has warped priorities.

Let's look into getting the infant mortality below 20% first.

Re:Amen

[Anonymous Coward]

A computer on every desk does indeed sound like somebody has warped priorities.

Let's look into getting the infant mortality below 20% first.
Apparently the Peace Corp is brain dead. All we need is the Seneglese Scam going around the world, exactly where do these stupid shits come from? France perhaps? I say we give France to the Palestinians! Senelgalese need lots more than computers! Try education, food, clean water and modern medicine. Wait, that would only increase their population! Doh! Let them rot with the rest of the Third World, they are the ones who spend their hard earned money on guns, like every other African country! I have a Timex Sinclair I would donate, surely some of those poor people have doors...

Re:Amen

[Anonymous Coward]

Stop posting on Slashdot and go save some babies, you fucking slacker.

Re:Amen

[geekoid]

yes, and the best way to do that is to keep them ill informed.

Re:Amen

[AlexCV]

Let's look into getting the infant mortality below 20% first.

No, let's look into educating people in methods of preventing unwanted pregnancy, reduce the birth rate to a more manageable level, say about 4 kids per women average or maybe 3.

Then you worry about reducing infant mortality when there's a fair chance the family will be able to feed him/her. With 8-9 childrens, it's almost normal that a few of them die. They rarely have the resource to sustain 8 or 9 kids.

Alex

Re:Amen

[Anonymous Coward]

Could work the other way around. Make it less likely that children will die & people won't feel like they have to have 8 or 9 for a chance that 2 or 3 will survive.

Re:Amen

[silas_moeckel]

Can be get the birth rate down while we do that? You have to have an infant mortality rate of 20% when you have pople having 10 children. Think Zero to low population growth this is what gets you into problems of starving less mouthes to feed = more food up to a point. Of course you need to couple this with taking care of the AIDs infection rate. How about handing out condoms, norplant getting a few computers in and showing them how to do the fresh water think in 3 easy lessons on cdrom?

Oh for the religious pople that got Africa into the baby boom. I realy dont care that sex that isn't to produce a baby is imoral in your views that nice you have as many as you want now just dont let the rest of the world help you please it's your own fault but some of us feel sorry for your starving dieing children whoes fault is not there own there parents listen to religious zelots.

Can you tell I dislike organized religion? Well I'll work on that one I'm sure they will forgive me if I truely repent now lets hold our breath untill that happens. Oh look the light the light yes it does burn.

Re:Amen

[tau_bada]

Let's look into getting the infant mortality below 20% first.

Careful at what depth you address things, many societies have addressed infant mortality with larger sized families. A strong immunization program is much easier to implement than is a family planning initiative. The former can occur in a generation, the latter may take generations. What may result is a population boom with limited food sources. Environmental equilibrium can be subtle, but it is there.

Re:Amen

[Iron Fusion]

Actually, it's known that reducing infant mortality can also reduce population growth, because if their children are less likely to die, they won't feel the need to have as many to compensate for that, and because reducing infant mortality generally involves building up medical and other infrastructure in ways which help reduce deprivation and poverty, and more prosperous people generally have fewer children (outside of cultural/religous reasons).

Re:Amen

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually it is not so high as you might think - the infant mortality for 95-00 is 62 deaths per 1000 births.

Establish a line of credit..THEN connectivity!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Ring Around Africa?

[wfmcwalter]

I see from the article that the trunk connectivity comes from an undersea fiberoptic cable. I think I remember (perhaps from that Neal Stephenson WIRED article?) about a fat copper cable that folks were putting around Africa, on land, which I think was called Ring Around Africa. I think I also remember there being problems with folks stealing parts of it (as it represented a decent value for copper recycling) and risking their lives due to the current.

Does anyone remember this (or is it just my imagination), and if so, what became of it?

Re:Ring Around Africa?

[Anonymous Coward]

didn't they rather risk their lifes because of the VOLTAGE?

Re:Ring Around Africa?

[bravehamster]

I think I remember (perhaps from that Neal Stephenson WIRED article?) about a fat copper cable that folks were putting around Africa, on land, which I think was called Ring Around Africa.

I believe they were calling it the "Ring of Fire" and it was Lucent who was putting most of it up. But I haven't heard anything on that in a couple of years.

Re:Ring Around Africa?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, actually we've installed the great ring of copper around the African continent because every so often it needs to be degaussed.

We're working on South America next, then mebbe Australia. North America will be hard, though, because it's so darn curvy......

Re:Ring Around Africa?

[Anonymous Coward]

You're a complete idiot. Voltage doesn't harm people; a typical static shock is in the range of a million volts. Do the world a favour. Prove your theory by sticking your fingers in a 120 volt outlet. If you're too big a baby, I'll take the megavolt static shock first.

Re:Ring Around Africa?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Ring of Fire" is what you get the day after eating loads of chili peppers.

Re:Ring Around Africa?

[Anonymous Coward]

What happens when you touch a conductor which carries 1000 ampere across a 1 volt potential?

Re:Ring Around Africa?

[Anonymous Coward]

i think it's called the ring around your cock

Re:Ring Around Africa?

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess that's why you see all those "DANGER! HIGH CURRENT!" signs around, right? Hehehehe

Get an education, filthy American!

Re:Ring Around Africa?

[geekoid]

ring of fire is the land around the pacific. It is called that due to its siesmic activity. Lots of volanoes.

Re:Ring Around Africa?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nothing. 1 volt isn't enough to send any appreciable current through unbroken human skin, which has a resistance measured in many thousands of ohms.

Broken skin is a different story altogether; people have died as a result of as little as 12-18 volts applied directly to the bloodstream.

But not 1 volt.

Re:Ring Around Africa?

[Anonymous Coward]

Excellent! So we agree that current alone isn't enough to harm people.

But that's hurting Bill Gate's business model.

[Anonymous Coward]

1) A computer on every desk (640K ought to be enough)
2) A copy of Windows on every computer
3) Profit!!!

Article Text -- preemptive post

[Anonymous Coward]

Every city is a village: Recommendations for the Digital Freedom Initiative

By Trevor Harmon

April 6, 2003

Since 1961, the Peace Corps has been sending volunteers to Ghana, West Africa, to work in education, business development, and environmental protection projects. Most of these volunteers work in remote areas where poverty is extreme and the small rural communities have the greatest need for teachers, engineers, and other skilled professionals. I was surprised, then, when I learned that the Peace Corps had placed a volunteer in Accra, the largest and wealthiest city in Ghana, to teach computer literacy at an upscale high school. I asked a Ghanaian friend why Accra should get computer experts when the villages up north must surely have the greater need for computer skills and information technology.

"When you're talking about computers in Africa," he said, "every city is a village."

This simple statement explains the motivation behind the Digital Freedom Initiative (DFI), an ambitious new project sponsored by the U.S. Department of Commerce. Beginning with a three-year, $6.5 million pilot program in Senegal, its long-term goal is to bring the benefits of computer technology and Internet access to developing countries. Several government agencies are participating, including the Peace Corps, USAID, and the USA Freedom Corps. Private companies are also welcome to join the project. Hewlett-Packard and Cisco, two of the largest computer technology companies in the world, have already signed on.

As a pilot project, DFI is still quite new, and the details of its implementation have not been made public. Several documents are available on the DFI website1, but because the project is in its early stages, these documents are short on specifics. Instead, they offer plenty of nebulous phrases such as "enable innovation", "leverage leadership", and "enhance business competitiveness". Likewise, the press releases from Hewlett-Packard and Cisco claim that they will "co-invent locally relevant IT solutions" and "fuel technical education". Exactly how these organizations will accomplish such monumental tasks is unclear.

The dot-com boom and bust proved that computers and Internet access are not goals in themselves; they are merely tools. The directors of DFI should be careful not to fall into the trap of providing web browsers and disk drives to developing countries and simply hoping that economic prosperity will follow. Still, if every city in the developing world is a technological village, then even a little bit of progress can have a big impact. With the right planning, DFI can provide a foundation for growth in countries like Senegal and Ghana while helping to satisfy the global need for computer technology.

In the paragraphs that follow, I'll explain the current state of computer technology in West Africa and how it could change as a result of DFI. I'll also dissect the DFI's stated goals and speculate on their potential for success. Finally, I'll highlight a few possible shortcomings and offer some recommendations for future projects. Computer Access In West Africa Today, access to computers in West Africa is at about the same level that it was in the United States during the mid-1980s. Large banks in the region use computers for processing transactions, government agencies track documents and records with computer databases, and many high schools have at least one computer on campus for administrative tasks or the science lab (see Figure 1). In the home, however, computers are still a luxury available only to the wealthy. The concept of a "personal" or "family" computer does not exist, or at least is a very new phenomenon, just as it was in 1984 when the first Apple Macintosh went on sale in the U.S. The perception of computers by the general public is also similar to that of the American public fifteen years ago. Many West Africans understand the need for computer technology in business, science, and education, but most aren't sure how computers can help them in t

Re:Article Text -- preemptive post

[toxcspdrmn]

You might like to know a little background to the reason the 6 PCs were in the school mentioned in the article.

The Ghanaian Ministry of Education contracted a British company, Philip Harris International, to set up a network of Science Resource Centres (SRC) in Ghana at a cost of some GBP19.75 million. The project involved the provision of science equipment, chemicals, PCs and even datalogging equipment to about 20% of Ghana's seondary schools.

Each SRC was supplied with a 45-seater school bus to transport students from satellite schols to the SRC for science practical lessons.

I was one of two installation engineers tasked with installing the science equipment and PCs in 110 schools in Ghana, including several in Accra, between 1995 and 1998. Each school received 6 PCs preinstalled with Windows 3.1, MS Office and a range of multimedia packages. The PCs were fitted with filters and adapted to better withstand the dusty conditions and uninterruptable power supply units and printers were supplied. Internet access in Ghana began to become available over the time I was there but this was too late to be incorporated into the project.

It is interesting that the author reports that in 1999 there were no staff capable of using the PCs. As part of the project, staff from Solihull College in the UK travelled toGhana and ran six residential training courses, each six weeks long and trained over 700 Ghanaian teachers in basic IT skills and the use of other equipment supplied to the SRCs. In addition, my colleague and I were available to give advice and technical support in Accra, and during our frequent travels round the country installing other centres. Teaching is not a prestigious career in Ghana and anecdotal evidence suggested at the time that at least some teachers, especially in rural areas, left the profession and used their new-found IT skills to find (relatively) more lucrative jobs in the city.

Real reason for internet..

[euxneks]

Pretty soon everyone in the world can look at big busty mommas abusing farm animals!

Was This Story from the Internet Bubble Era?

[Cryofan]

That is what it smells of....

My vision:

[phyrestang]

I imagine seeing children in tattered clothing, sitting reading /. complaining about "that damn microsoft"

Priorities

[rf0]

Computer on every desk? How about getting everyone a desk first? Or prehaps decent housing to put the desk in? Or decent medical care? Or water and food? Surely that sort of thing would come first?

rus

Re:Priorities

[Old Wolf]

Come on, to do the things you mention requires an improvement in the economy, and a computer is the perfect way to do that. As well as displaying language so they can practise reading, there are an endless amount of websites which teach information and skills.

In first world countries, putting on your CV "I learned it on the internet" won't hold much water, but in Ghana where the average person is less science-savvy than your 6 year old kid, it will bring them forward in leaps and bounds.

There are endless examples of this working in other countries. Unfortunately I am late for work so can't find links, but maybe someone else can... Nepal and Jordan come to mind quickly.

Re:Priorities

[Anonymous Coward]

No, the first thing we got to do is figure out how to make money off all these poor people. Then we can think about helping them by forcing democracy and capitalism on them like it was forced on us. Because all us Americans know our system is perfect. Its utopia without all those damned hippies.

Re:Priorities

[rueba]

"but in Ghana where the average person is less science-savvy than your 6 year old kid, it will bring them forward in leaps and bounds."

I heartily agree with your overall point, but I think you got a bit carried away here in your metaphor there. I mean what does a 6-year old know? All I remember was something about dinosaurs being really huge, big deal.

Also I think you underestimate the knowledge of the average Ghanian. They may not know the theory of Mendelian genetics or whatever, but you bet they know how to breed their cows!

Re:Priorities

[Old Wolf]

Well maybe. I was thinking of myself at age 6 :) (My parents always got me tuns of science-themed books to read)

Garrrrg!!

[Anonymous Coward]

I hate Steven Senegal movies!

How you can help

[Anonymous Coward]

I have some friends in Nigeria that have some thoughts on the matter. They are in the midst of a West African telephone project and need your help. The equipment is ready to go, but they need your help with the transfer tax. If just a few slashdotters can help by replying with some cc info, we can be lighting up West African switchboards. Send money now.

Not just in West Africa, but worldwide...

[J.J.]

I just returned from a three-week backpacking tour of Nicaragua, Costa Rica and Panama. In general, they're not in as bad of shape as Africa, but some parts still suffer the same difficulities with access and utility availability.

I told folks I'd keep in touch via e-mail, but was careful to always caveat that with "as long as I can find internet access". Next time, I'll drop the caveat. Places with phones have an "internet cafe". And they're often full.

In my constant pursuit of fluent spanish, I thought I'd have to find another bilingual computer professional to learn the spanish translation of computer-centric terms like e-mail, web, internet, scanner, mouse, instant messaging and the like. If you find yourself in the same situation, ask a kid on the bus. The older generations aren't there yet, but the kids have it down. I was amazed.

The Economist did a good article recently on [somewhat] related issues of access, business and money. Instead of working to deliver telephones, they give an account of the beer man. It's a good read. Trucking in Cameroon

Cheers,
J.J.

Re:Not just in West Africa, but worldwide...

[arcite]

Indeed! Thoughout my travels in Asia I have found that Internet cafes function as a social gathering place for people to hang out, meet others, and exchange ideas. This is exactly the kind of thing people need more of in remote and isolated settings such as Africa. There are COUNTLESS uses of the internet than just posting to /.! --> tracking the weather if you are a farmer, keeping up to date on the news, contacting specialists such as doctors, facilitating growth of local industry - the possibilities are endless really. I think some people have lost sight of the real power of the internet and its role in encouraging the exchange of ideas!

Re:Not just in West Africa, but worldwide...

[TarPitt]

Exactly. Moving people beyond a subsistence level means putting them in touch with markets to sell what they make. The Internet gives these folks the connections and the market information they need to function effectively in the modern world. Any good farmer needs to know what he/she can sell and for how much.

So give them a water filter - what happens when the filter expires? Given them another? What have you accomplished?

Give them access to knowledge and markets and you open up export driven growth. Being poor doesn't mean being lacking in initiative, or being stupid, or being eternally dependent on White Men. The Internet is more than entertainment and chat, it is a source of vital economic information and a way to participate economically in the world.

Imagine what they could sell on ebay....

Re:Not just in West Africa, but worldwide...

[cybercuzco]

So give them a water filter - what happens when the filter expires? Given them another? What have you accomplished?

A better idea would be to give them a cow

Computers in Africa

[chunkwhite86]

Having lived in Africa for a short period, I can say that "a computer in every home" is NOT what those people need.

To repeat some of the previous posts, they need clean water, food, medical supplies, and other basic humanitarian goods.

This is not to say that they have no use for computers. For this is certainly not the case. Something along the lines of an internet cafe (but not so trendy) is what they would benefit from. Just as the article says, the people can share the cost of an inexpensive comm link. Combine this with a few donated PC's running Linux and bingo - the towns people will begin to become computer literate.

These people have a genuine desire to learn, but things like this must fit within the economic and humanitarian reality of their locale. A "community" net enabled PC would fit the bill nicely.

Re:Computers in Africa

[Anonymous Coward]

How about a 'community' batch of cool aid. Jim jones style?

Re:Computers in Africa

[Anonymous Coward]

Having lived in Africa most of my life, I'd like to point out just how
silly this particular delusion is.

It is perfectly reasonable to give them what resources we can; just because
they are short on food doesn't mean that they can't use the internet to
perhaps announce what's happening to food shipments (bandits, floods, bad
roads or any other reason) or to request what's needed most or even to try
to up revenue (such as tourism) or improve financial communications.

The funny thing: most food shortages in Africa are manmade. Most of Africa
is not starving, and where they are starving there are other problems
causing the starvation which might well be alleviated by better literacy,
better communications or even just better infrastructure in general. Lord
knows a little useful agronomy online might help, or online diagnostic
information, or online purchase rather than having to go a week without
someone's labour JUST so that they can go far enough to buy whatever it is
that they need.

Sure, it would be more useful if they all had doctorates in CS and were working
out of their mahogany offices; can't you imagine how useless the internet is
for actually organising things people need? Haha, the very idea.

Guess what: people in africa use wireless telephony. They aren't just given
it; they USE it. It's made a lot of activity a lot more efficient.

Go ahead, great dictator, tell people on the other side of the world what
problems they have or don't have, tell them what they need and don't need.
They will quite rightly be sickened and disgusted by your blind arrogance.

Re:Computers in Africa

[Anonymous Coward]

Jim Jones didn't use Kool-aid, he used Flav-or-Aid.

Re:Computers in Africa

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for reiterating my point. Since you are obviously so full of yourself that you have to be "more right" than the next guy, I'm wondering why I even bothered to reply. Piss off and post something useful next time.

Re:Computers in Africa

[ctid]

You do know that Africa is a big place, don't you? Lots of different countries, loads of different peoples, languages, ecosystems and climates and everything else?

Perhaps there might be some Africans who need one thing, and others who need something else?

There is one piece of this equation missing....

[Klugheitsucher]

where X = 0
Third world countries + Computers + Electricty(X) = Not posible
... isn't that one of the defining features of a third would nation?

Uhm...

[i_need_no_nick]

I'm all for opening up the internet to poor communities, I think it's important to have free exchange of ideas and so on.

However, I'm not all for this way of doing it. We all know how dirty a single user computer can get, I can't be bothered looking up the /. article ID. Now imagine the same amount of dirt and pathogens times a hundered. Then factor in that not everywhere has battled diseases like tuberculosis as effectivly as we have in the Western nations.

This isn't intended to be racist, sorry if it comes across as such, but I think such a system would be an almost ideal breeding ground for infectious disease.

Re:Uhm...

[arcite]

Wow are you paranoid! You must not ride the bus, take the subway, use escalators, use public bathrooms, ect, ect, ect either!

Re:Uhm...

[RumpledElf]

If they survived lack of clean water and lack of sewers long enough to get to use a computer, they'll survive a bit of grime on a communal keyboard. Diseases are having lots more fun in the Western world growing antibiotic resistant (from antibiotic overuse - I'm sure you're using antimicrobial cleaner in your kitchen) and bumping off people with low immune systems in hospitals.

The worst thing that could happen is all the porn found on the internet may inspire these people to have more sex and thus increase the spread of AIDS!

Re:Who cares about these savages??

[chunkwhite86]

Who cares about these savages?? Fucking senegal. Come on guys!

Look everyone, another dumb redneck bought a pc and found slashdot!

Please Mod this -1, REDUNDANT

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank you for completely restating the article. Jesus Fucking Christ, how does this shit get modded up?

Right....

[Esion Modnar]

And what better way to help them read but to give them the Internet?

... they could practice up on their grammar by hitting the chatrooms, you know, where the intelligentsia gather, d00d.

Re:Right....

[Anonymous Coward]

With megatons of internet. /. spelling problem still persists. Sigh.....

stop patronizing Africans

[tintillon]

I was in Tanzania last month. As the story says is the case in W Africa, community internet access is very popular. Its patronizing and simplistic to assume that just because these are poor people, they have no other needs than food/water (as other posters have commented). If nothing else, in the Maasai village I was staying in, people were using the internet to get farming/weather information that was otherwise unavailable. More relevantly, they were trying to contact the Houston company (http://www.tgts.com) that was shooting the leopards, lions and buffaloes on their land without permission. They were also starting their own school, using internet as a tool. All of this can be seen in a community context, which might explain why community-level internet access might be successful.

Done right, technology will provide the information that will allow people to help themselves - much better than the normal aid dependency syndrome.

Reply to another comment: I don't think Quake is so exciting for Maasai who have to kill a lion with a sharp stick before being allowed to marry.

Re:stop patronizing Africans

[HBI]

I had a friend named Martin who was an expatriate from Sierra Leone. He worked with me at IBM. Talented guy, college educated. He spent a lot of his time rounding up junk computer equipment (what we'd consider junk) and shipping it to Sierra Leone. He'd go back and visit occasionally.

I asked him - if people can use these computers (implied literacy and education), then why can't they form up a westernized culture and enrich themselves, at least to the extent of getting decent housing and food self-sufficiency. His answer was that the lacking required factor was law and order. The leaders fleece the country, selling off natural resources at cut-rate to benefit western corporations. Eventually the enraged local youth (of a political bent) get fed up and revolt, and stuck in the middle are all the regular people of which this mythical culture would be fashioned.

What's the answer, I said. He shook his head. He does what he can.

Re:stop patronizing Africans

[xcomputer_man]

I completely agree.

I am from West Africa (Nigeria in particular) and it irks me every time I see one of these morons talk about the place like it's a hapless mass of poor, depraved and illiterate morons fighting with each other all the time. It is for the same reason I refused to go see Bruce Willis' Tears of the Sun.

You only need to get to some areas of Lagos where there are approximately 5 to 10 cybercafes PER BLOCK to understand what the hell is going on. Since the launch of mobile telecoms in Nigeria, the country has had by far the fastest cellphone industry growth rate ever recorded, injecting $1 billion into the economy within the first year alone, and leaving the 2 or 3 providers struggling under demand.

The point is people need to communicate. Africans are a very smart set of people (just compare the average knowledge/IQ of an american high-schooler to that of a Nigerian high-schooler and you'll see what I'm talking about). And even the illiterate ones still frequent cybercafes to send email and use VoIP phones to communicate all over the world.

I could slap the face of anyone who makes retarded comments as "let's teach them to READ first" or rubbish like that.

Re:stop patronizing Africans

[DNS-and-BIND]

BZZZT wrong. Sorry, your friend Martin is mistaken. Africa's problems are caused by the white man. Period. If you think otherwise I suggest a few courses in race relations at a nationally known university.

Re:stop patronizing Africans

[tintillon]

- That was something I forgot to put in my comment: everyone in Tanzania seemed to be using cellphones - for text messages rather than phone conservations. So much for not being able to read!!! A great case of appropriate technology working well. Also its nice to see that an industry that has exploited Africa (those dreadful mines for those semiconductor minerals) actually benefitting normal Africans. I think the idiots you were referring to forget that English/French is often an African's THIRD language. I'm British: there are very few of us who can speak three languages fluently.

Re:stop patronizing Africans

[tintillon]

I don't even seem to be able to manage one - "conversations"

Re:stop patronizing Africans

[Anonymous Coward]

Reply to another comment: I don't think Quake is so exciting for Maasai who have to kill a lion with a sharp stick before being allowed to marry.

Maybe not, but wouldn't that make a great level! No, not the marrying part.

Re:stop patronizing Africans

[cyril3]

Sharp stick? Did you say SHARP?

Someone will pay dearly for this...

Re:stop patronizing Africans

[rueba]

I am from Tanzania, so this caught my attention.

I was in Tanzania last December, and like you said EVERYONE seemed to have a cellphone. Many more people than have a landline even.

It is interesting to speculate how these technologies will play out in less developed countries(i.e will dialup ever become popular or will they "leapfrog" to another form of access)?

Re:stop patronizing Africans

[rueba]

This is absolutely true.

I only stayed in Dar Es Salaam, but it seemed every other block I went there was an internet cafe. The price was about 1$ for an hour of access and they always seemed to be packed.

Of course the connection was a bit slow to say the least, but perfectly sufficient if you primarily wanted to e-mail.

There are many misconceptions on the state of contemporary Africa.

Re:stop patronizing Africans

[PD]

Nine out of ten lions prefer Quake to a sharp stick in the eye.

Re:stop patronizing Africans

[Anonymous Coward]

Check the dude's website at ruralcleansing.com. Follow the links.

He's a moron and a troll. At least, he's a paranoid proto-terrorist.

Re:stop patronizing Africans

[Anonymous Coward]

Right, because we all know that Africa was an idyllic paradise free of disease and war, in which everyone held hands and was friends, before whitey showed up and ruined everything.

Seriously, Africa is the mess it is because of more than the occasional dysfunctional interaction with a considerably more advanced civilization.

Re:stop patronizing Africans

[ctve]

Reply to another comment: I don't think Quake is so exciting for Maasai who have to kill a lion with a sharp stick before being allowed to marry. For many Quake players, fighting the lion isn't the issue, finding a mate is.

Wire Maine

[maccrapper]

Let's take care of rural america first..

Re:Wire Maine

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's take care of rural america first..

*sigh* Gonna need cool-aid. Lots of cool-aid.

Re:Who cares about these savages??

[Anonymous Coward]

Look everyone, another tool of the left...

How about

[jtaylor72]

Streaming water before we stream broadband? I would think that might be more useful.

"Are you ready?"
We are ready! We poop in our drinking water, but sign me up for some porn!

Couldn't they have engineered the reverse?

[Anonymous Coward]

Very interesting point. On an individual level it may be more important for someone to be able to read, hell I'd say it's pre-requisite for the command line, at least ;) This, however makes no difference from a policy perspective. Litteracy in the USA & Europe is not 100%, yet there would be screams of protest if all Comp Sci teaching was banned until 100% litteracy was reached. There are those in dirt poor countries who are smart and educated. They may lack money. This 'elite' (for want of a better word, inteligentsia? ) needs to know about whatever technology is going to help their country produce more 'stuff' with the same amount of resources. If that is computers, then great. Producing more stuff, this means more wealth, which should mean more to go around. More to be taxed and spent on litteracy programs, social security, health and all the other stuff that individuals in poor countries so desperately need. However, if people cannot learn because they live in a poor country, so lack the materials (computer equipment) that country will always be poor, will always be reliant on handouts from the rich, and on the recent tragic history of most of Afrcia, probably will probably have to deal with civil war & systemic corruption on an ongoing basis. Are computers the way to go? Well I guess if you can read, there is a hell of a lot that can be found out on the internet. Knowlege is power. Another concern is someone who can read, can get on line, but has no education to be able to assess whether or not a page is full of b-s can cause a hell of a lot of trouble. (Anybody else dissappointed that Thabo Mbeki, president of the Republic of South Africa believes HIV does not lead to AIDS because he saw a site somewhere. 8 million people will die in the next ten years in his country. Are they running the biggest, most prominent safe-sex campaign ever? No need, the link between HIV and Aids is not clear.)

Joko Clubs

[mike3k]

Senegal has a successful chain of cybercafes, the Joko Clubs, where internet access is available to everyone. It was started by a popular Senegalese singer, not by the government or outsiders.

Re:Joko Clubs

[Anonymous Coward]

Having lived in Africa most of my life, I'd like to point out just how silly the parent's viewpoint is.

It is perfectly reasonable to give them what resources we can; just because
they are short on food doesn't mean that they can't use the internet to
perhaps announce what's happening to food shipments (bandits, floods, bad
roads or any other reason) or to request what's needed most or even to try
to up revenue (such as tourism) or improve financial communications.

The funny thing: most food shortages in Africa are manmade. Most of Africa
is not starving, and where they are starving there are other problems
causing the starvation which might well be alleviated by better literacy,
better communications or even just better infrastructure in general. Lord
knows a little useful agronomy online might help, or online diagnostic
information, or online purchase rather than having to go a week without
someone's labour JUST so that they can go far enough to buy whatever it is
that they need.

Sure, it would be more useful if they all had doctorates in CS and were working
out of their mahogany offices; can't you imagine how useless the internet is
for actually organising things people need? Haha, the very idea.

Guess what: people in africa use wireless telephony. They aren't just given
it; they USE it. It's made a lot of activity a lot more efficient.

Go ahead, great dictator, tell people on the other side of the world what
problems they have or don't have, tell them what they need and don't need.
They will quite rightly be sickened and disgusted by your blind arrogance. Chances are, you're behind a firewall or proxy, or clicked the Back button to accidentally reuse a form. Please try again. If the problem persists, and all other options have been tried, contact the site administrator.

The comunity "Computer & Comunications" idea..

[nickgrieve]

The community "Computer & Communications" idea is fantastic, not only does the cost get shared on a user pays basis, it also brings together like minded individuals where they can teach/learn from each other, rather than struggle to learn alone.

Food IS more important, but ...

[dimension6]

Upon reading many peoples' response to the wiring of 3rd world countries, I don't think that everyone is considering all of the benefits that the Internet may bring to the people (mostly indirectly). Regarding business Internet usage, there is no denying that the Internet has proven to be an indispensable tool that both saves money and time in the long run. I think that setting up Senegalese companies with connected computers will help out the people in the long run. With proper communication, it will be possible to give food to those who really need it with far more efficiency.

Contrary to what many of you believe, Senegal is not one of the most impoverished nations in Africa (try Sierra Leone)...

Re:Food IS more important, but ...

[Anonymous Coward]

That may well be, but I just returned from a three-week backpacking tour of Nicaragua, Costa Rica and Panama. In general, they're not in as bad of shape as Africa, but some parts still suffer the same difficulities with access and utility availability.

I told folks I'd keep in touch via e-mail, but was careful to always caveat that with "as long as I can find internet access". Next time, I'll drop the caveat. Places with phones have an "internet cafe". And they're often full.

In my constant pursuit of fluent spanish, I thought I'd have to find another bilingual computer professional to learn the spanish translation of computer-centric terms like e-mail, web, internet, scanner, mouse, instant messaging and the like. If you find yourself in the same situation, ask a kid on the bus. The older generations aren't there yet, but the kids have it down. I was amazed.

The Economist did a good article recently on [somewhat] related issues of access, business and money. Instead of working to deliver telephones, they give an account of the beer man.

Band-aid approaches don't work

[siskbc]

Trying to put a computer in every home? Try getting clean water in every home first. For now lets work on that. We can put in computers once we can help them READ.

As much as I applaud foreign aid, the way we've been doing it DOESN'T WORK. When we go in and feed people, guess what happens when we leave (and leave we will!)? They starve again. If anything, they're worse off, because they've gotten used to a steady stream of aid.

This is why we need to educate them, and computers is a good way to provide maximum education/$. Right now, in the third world, there is no meritocracy - so there are, quite likely, very intelligent people who don't have any means of improving themselves. However, they could do very well with some investment in education in these countries.

So, what we need is to educate the populace while we feed them. Give them a chance to learn either a trade skill, or to go to university. Then, the educated can help rebuild the country. Admittedly, computers aren't the sole answer to this, but it would be a part. Those who have the intelligence and literacy would be able to teach themselves, and as other posters have said, Google is a better textbook than nothing for schools that lack resources.

Yes, Africa needs food....but it might need civil engineers even more. That's why we need to work really hard to educate them. If you wait to educate until no one is starving, no one will ever be educated and everyone will starve when we stop spoon-feeding them. That's why it has to be a concerted effort.

Re:Band-aid approaches don't work

[Daniel_Staal]

So, what we need is to educate the populace while we feed them. Give them a chance to learn either a trade skill, or to go to university. Then, the educated can help rebuild the country. Admittedly, computers aren't the sole answer to this, but it would be a part. Those who have the intelligence and literacy would be able to teach themselves, and as other posters have said, Google is a better textbook than nothing for schools that lack resources.

I grew up with my dad in USAID. He still works for them. That is what the US does, feed and teach, try to build the infrastructure. Or at least, what we try to do. It doesn't always work of course, but usually it does. At least until the next civil war. It is hard to get critical mass on these types of projects. At least, with the funds we give our forgein aid projects.

Re:Band-aid approaches don't work

[bfields]

As much as I applaud foreign aid, the way we've been doing it DOESN'T WORK. When we go in and feed people, guess what happens when we leave (and leave we will!)? They starve again.

On the contrary, what I've always been lead to understand is that most starvation is due to temporary, local situations--war, natural disaster, whatever--so most food aid is to communities that can normally feed themselves but that need aid to survive through just a few months.

--Bruce Fields

Re:Band-aid approaches don't work

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah right!
I grew up in southern africa and I have yet to see one aid project that actually does any good. The prime drawbacks of aid are - IMHO - 1) people never value what they get for free, 2) you create a market for corruption, 3) you strengthen dictatorships and discourage democratic change 4) you kill off budding enterprise by giving them competition that can give their products away for free (who's going to be stupid enough to go into farming if the development aid people are giving away food for free?), 5) the deployment of western hippies with no understanding of what makes a capitalist economy tick; hippies that are given the chance to implement their dream of how they would like an economy to work (which never works in the real world) by pushing the recipients of foreign aid to accept their warped view of civilisation.

The donor communities are continuously trying to push developing countries into accepting policy that the donor communities themselves would never support at home (and the rulers on the ground will basically commit to any policy - idiotic or not - that enable them to nick a bit of cash that will fund the purchase of their next BMW or Merc).

How to solve the problem with poor countries? - well, for a start:
- Give them the practical possibility to export their products to western world through removing the currently existing import duties levied on their goods when exported into the western world.
- Support a policy of "right of ownership" by leaving the import tariffs in place towards countries who do not vigorously protect the right of ownership.

These two points alone should give better results than ANY artificial aid projects/programmes - present or past.

Since I personally know some of the people who are buying their new mercs and bmw's for aid money, I'm posting this anonymously. Why do I not speak out against these people publicly? - an AK 47 does have substantial powers of persuation. And since the ammo is funded by the wonderful donor communities, its not like they would hesitate to use it.

We covered this earlier!

[Anonymous Coward]

http://slashdot.org&article.pl=12272@3338121056/%6 7o%61%74

Some specifics about Senegal

[Anonymous Coward]

It's certainly true that people can get too carried away with high-tech needs when low-tech needs are unmet, and I agree about the importance of health issues. But it's also true that westerners make too many blanket assumptions about Africa. Look at Senegal specifically -- here's some good info: these stats. All those comments below about how they can't read over there are pretty uninformed. Literacy is over 50%.

Until ...

[torpor]

... they start getting spam for dick extenders, realise just how pitiful the rest of the world is, and go back to beating the shit out of each other over which goat pissed where.

Well, maybe Microsoft can save them.

for a secong there

[geekoid]

I thought someone was trying to wire seagulls.

Just say no to Pox Americana

[dunng808]

This user model coupled with deregulation of VoIP can be the key to implementation of computer technology in poor countries.

Who is regulating VoIP? To what specific problems does this phrase apply?

I don't see where the Digital Freedom Initiative wants to put a computer on every desk. In fact, their agenda sounds pretty much the same as the proposed alternative, namely to leverage the Internet cafes already there.

When you're talking about computers in Africa, every city is a village.

This is a nice line. Nice in the style of political campaign slogans. Bumper Sticker Verbiage. All I get from it is that Africa is behind in computer technology.

The Peace Corps has got to stop acting like Christian missionaries. The way to help African countries is to help those who manage the country. Let them manage their own lives. The conservative politics of the current administration assume that we Americans -- including the Peace Corps. -- are better equipped to run things than the people we are supposed to be helping. That approach is doomed to fail -- see the history of colonialism.

I was especially offended by the pro-commerce tone of the DFI web site. Classic conservatism, use taxpayer's money to further "private" enterprise:

The Digital Freedom Initiative (DFI) will help meet the challenge by promoting free market based regulatory and legal structures and placing volunteers in businesses and community centers to provide small businesses and entrepreneurs with the information and communications technology skills and knowledge to operate more efficiently while competing in the global economy. These objectives can be achieved in partnership with U.S. business entities whose voluntary, innovative and entrepreneurial participation in the DFI provides access to new markets and competitive opportunities for developing products and services in emerging economies.

Whatever happened to population control, sanitation, natural resource management, and basic education? Since when is it my government's job to help business entrepreneurs in other countries get to market? So Walmart can sell more cheap clothes? The Peace Corps needs to get back to basics of helping to ensure a fundamental level of safety, health, and liberty for every human being.

Fear Pox Americana.

Re:Just say no to Pox Americana

[Anonymous Coward]

The African state run telecoms, just like other state run telecoms, simply want to maintain their monopoly. They do this by stifling attempts to create cheaper alternatives by burying them with regulation and red tape, at the expense of the consumer.

While I am not a categorical fan of deregulation, this situation seems a clear cut case where it is beneficial to the population. The only losers are the bureaucrats, and people with fancy slogans like "Pox Americana" that have a knee jerk rejection of deregulation.

Re:Just say no to Pox Americana

[jamesangel]

To answer one of your questions: Who is regulating VoIP? To what specific problems does this phrase apply?

The governments of the countries concerned are, quite often, regulating voice over IP, in many cases along with things like internet through satellite connections.

I was down there (Uganda, Kenya) a few months ago looking at some projects, and government regulation is a significant limitation on the spread of new technologies. In many African countries, the government phone companies have a monopoly which for the usual reasons those in power are not keen to give up. Some countries (Uganda for example) have been opening up in this respect, and it tends to be those countries that are the pilots for this kind of initiative.

Regulation

[MoceanWorker]

Please don't consider this a flame, JUST because I'm opposing the view of deregulation of the VoIP.. regulation may be a necessity especially in a poverty stricken country like Senegal (with the proper and honest officials, of course)..

Regulating standards, prices, services, etc.. is crucial to build, and sustain, technological services in a third-world country.

Regulation is also important to prevent any companies from monopolizing. It may not be necessarily a problem in the beginning, but nonetheless this is a business ethic which must be regulated.

Before we even consider helping Senegal with their technology, how about we first see if we can establish a trust with Senegal and first help the country out of poverty. What good is wiring up a whole country when the majority of the population is struggling to survive with the basic needs for survival?

I really think it's a great idea and I would definitely give the go ahead, but I honestly, don't see this happening anytime soon.. and feel that we should first concentrate on the basic needs for the people (shelter, food, clothes, medicine) and humanitarian issues first..

Why a computer on every desk?

[seichert]

Private aid organizations that do not rely on the government can see the wisdom in having a communications center and a limited number of computers, telephones, faxes, etc. This growing business allows these Africans to sustain themselves and develop their own economy. They are NOT inferior people who need your charity. They need your respect and willingness to trade with them in a free market economy. They need you to stop thinking that only more welfare (i.e. foreign aid) will end their troubles.

So why a computer on every desk? Why cure AIDS in Africa? Simple. When the U.S. government gives foreign aid in the form of computers and drugs it gets to give your tax dollars to large politically connected corporations. This is the same idea behind the E-rate program domestically. E-rate was always supported by the makers of telecom equipment because they knew that they would be the ones raking in the tax money.

Inductive Nigerian Scam?

[fbg111]

With ubiquitous PCs throughout Africa, hopefully it won't be long before those Nigerian spammers and their ilk start accidentally sending their emails to each other.

Screw medicine and clean water

[gelfling]

Let's give them Quake 3 Deathmatches. Fuck all that do gooder shit and put up a goddamn Starbucks.

Senegal is not Liberia

[moumine]

Most of the commentators seem to think that Senegal is some kind of totally under-developped country were people are starving. A quick look at the CIA factbook might show you that although it is certainly not the consumer paradise that the USA and Europe are, at least they already have:
"communications:
general assessment: good system
domestic: above-average urban system; microwave radio relay, coaxial cable and fiber-optic cable in trunk system
international: 4 submarine cables; satellite earth station - 1 Intelsat (Atlantic Ocean)"
Besides, talking about the Peace Corps, "Senegal has a long history of participating in international peacekeeping."
Everything between quotes is from the CIA factbook:
Senegal CIA Factbook

Anyway, even "The Economist" (the newspaper) aggrees that access to the Internet is a useful tool for farmers in the developping world

Wire?

[dark-br]

I bet ppl there is more worried about eating then sending e-mail. Its ridiculous talking about wiring a country where 87.6% of the population lives with less then a dolar/day.

Re:Who cares about these savages??

[geekoid]

see what happens when they sell cheap PC's at walmart. Next he'll be asking our help to remove the tires off his new house.

Re:Jesus Saves!

[Anonymous Coward]

beLIEve

I smell oil...

[The Lynxpro]

There must be oil in Senegal to justify this... next up, liberation of the Senegalese to make safe democracy! Brought to you by the good folks at Haliburton (sic), your friend Rupert Murdoch at News Corp., and benevolent computer genius Bill Gates! :)

Technology, not toilets!

[watchful.babbler]

Yes, it's a snide title to the post (and for that I apologize). I've spent some time in Africa -- not a great amount of time, but almost all of it was spent "en buisson," out in the tiny villages beyond the hub cities. I think that anyone who insists that indoor plumbing be piped to every village and town is ignoring the fact that developing nations need engines of growth, not creature comforts.

Folks who say "let's get infant mortality below 20% first" may think they're being hard-headed (Senegal has an infant mortality of 62/1000, just to clear up that point), but the truth is that they're woefully behind the times in development economics.

Developing nations are hardly the hellholes we often think them to be: life there isn't as pleasant as our own upper-middle-class lives, but it's not a constant struggle for survival in most nations. (Places like Sierra Leone excepted, of course.) People in developing nations may not have every modern convenience known to Americans, but -- thanks in no small part to the Peace Corps and other NGOs -- they at least have acceptable levels of sanitation available to them. (And am I the only one who hears the faint strains of "Rule Britannia" in those statements -- a kind of disdain for those poor savage souls who can't even be relied upon to clean themselves properly?)

What developing nations need is capital for their domestic entrepreneurs, and telecommunications is a critical part of that. One of the great success stories in development economics is the Grameen Bank, a microcredit bank that lends to impoverished rural dwellers. One of their success stories was a loan to a group of women who created a cell cooperative: they would rent celltime to other villagers, allowing the locals access to telecommunications without having to purchase unnecessary private lines.

For another example, in the West African nation of Mali, the Peace Corps has helped set up a trading cooperative for artisans across the nation -- artists ship their goods to a store that caters to both walk-in trade (mostly from French tourists) and international dealers. They even have a website (which, of course, I don't have the URL to ATT) that you can order from. Imagine how much more effective such networks could be if locals could communicate immediately across the region.

Furthermore, telecommunications give developing nations access to services not easily available -- local businesspeople could not only use Excel to keep track of their cash flows (as opposed to having to hand-rule ledger books in many rural areas), but they could get immediate access to groups and individuals to help them with their businesses. Instead of PCVs spending their two years giving lectures on basic accounting principles, small businesspeople could get that information over the Web, leaving the Peace Corps to stay hands-on.

Finally, anytime you can expand opportunities for people in the villages, you're doing a service. The traditional Harris-Todaro migration model effectively demonstrates how unemployed underclasses and grey markets develop in urban areas within developing nations. If you can increase educational and economic opportunities for people in rural areas, you decrease the wage disparity between the two sectors, and lower the explosive demographic pressure that characterizes so many developing-world cities. Arguably, technology can also have a feedback effect: as literacy and basic education is necessary to take advantage of the benefits of the telecommunications centers, the incentive to obtain that education grows.

So, there you go: some perfectly rational, hard-headed, economically-grounded reasons to give the developing world computers. It comes down to simply giving these people the power to effect change in their own lives: they're as capable and able as any of us, they just need the infrastructure to take advantage of it.

Only liberals do this

[g0hare]

If they can't pay they don't deserve it

/troll

George Washington

[cybercuzco]

Every time i read something like this i think of George Washington, the man who would not be king. The more and more we see of democracies, the more we see how hard it is to start them up (at least starting through a violent revolution) without the leader of that revolution seizing power and smashing the democracy. We can thank Washington for our stable democracy(the man, not the city ;-) .

How to Wire Senegal in One Easy Step:

[errxn]

Give 'em a shitload of amphetamines 'n' coffee.

Re:erm..OUCH

[Tuna_Shooter]

Dude i have been to this country and i HIGHLY recommend some friggin running hot water in the hotels before net connectivity..... Possibly servering also a good steak that the waiters might not think was the local canine might also be a good idea.... (honest post)

Work done in Dakar

[aeryn_sunn]

Hmm, A few years back I remember a project to get the Airport at Dakar connected to the Sita network. (More precisely, there was a redoing of the worldwide network topology).

Which, too bad they, the Senagalese(sp?), couldn't somehow tap into that network...matter fact, The whole Sita network that connected all the world's major airports was sort of a "secret" access to the Internet. In theory, at say Bejing's airport, or even Riyahd (or pick any country that controls internet access), one could get unrestricted, i.e. no government monitoring or censoring of internet surfing, internet access. hmmm
.

of course, this is only theory, as I never actually went to those places to test it out, but as for as I knew, anything on the 54.x.x.x network could get to the internet. hmmm

How to Wire Senegal?

[Dirtside]

More Thoughts On How to Wire Senegal

Oh come on. Just go to Western Union and be done with it.

Name Change

[pkcs11]

Can we change the name of Senegal? It looks too much like Steven Segal's last name. Thank you, that is all.

Spanish word for Internet

[Anonymous Coward]

A lot of english words are incorporated to actual spanish (Spain).
e-mail : e-mail or correo eletrónico.
web : web
internet : internet
scanner : scanner
mouse : ratón
instant messaging : messenger

But it is different in each country.
Isn't the same spanish for Mexico.

Putting computers in every home?

[sciwhiz007]

Isn't it more important for underdeveloped countries to have a solid underlying infrastructure? I mean, many such countries do not even have adequate water and healthcare facilities. The citizens need food, not advanced technology at this stage. It is more important for the world community to help these countries get on their feet before trying to wire them. How do you expect a country where telephones are a luxury to even think about the Internet?

what, my checking acct number not enough?

[Mantorp]

You need to wire West African countries to get rich now?

System of Mirrors

[infonography]

We could use AOL disks placed strategically and bounce laser beams off them. Better then 802.11

Public Libraries in the US do it, why not

[SoupIsGood Food]

We do this in the US, too. If you haven't been since highschool, take a visit to your local public library: even in small towns there are often a half dozen PCs or Macs set up for the express purpose of browsing the 'net. You'd be shocked at how busy they are. Way back in the '70s, there were "public terminals" set up in places like Berkely... kiosks where people off the street could get and recieve email and participate on messageboards. This really helped to prime the pump for the personal computer revolution, and the BBS and Internet revolutions that followed. No reason why it can't work in Africa...

Obsolte PCs make great web browsing stations with the addition of Linux and the free web browser of your choice... set up a network of three or four of them in the town school/library/bar/whatever, and you're all set.

It occurs to me that a standardized "Library Terminal" distro, designed for robustness and single-click installation off of one CD, would be a great idea...

SoupIsGood Food

A few clarifications

[vocaro]

There seems to be a common theme in response to my article: These countries need food and water, not computers and software. It is important to note that in most countries of West Africa, people are neither starving nor thirsty. Aid agencies have helped drill so many boreholes (a type of well) in Africa that there are few villages without access to potable water. Food is also widely available (at least, when there's no drought or war going on). Likewise, the image of Africans living in mud huts dying of AIDS is purely a steretype, and yet it seems to persist in the comments I've seen here.

Even though malnutrition, disease, and illiteracy are enormous problems in Africa, nobody is suggesting that we ignore them. The goal of the DFI is not to put a computer in every rural village but to enable the larger, more urban communities to experience the benefits of computer technology. (Remember, "Every city is a village.") These communities have relatively high literacy and low poverty and are the point of focus for the DFI.

Trevor

Senegal

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps we should get all those Nigerian diplomats who want help disposing of their money in touch with the people in Senegal. With that kind of cash behind them, they could have the whole country wired in no time.

Wow! READ PARENT POST

[siskbc]

You said that better than I could have. Good luck with what you're working on - I'm assuming you're over there currently.

Also, I agree with your solutions, that will definitely help with budding industry. Know of anything that will help from the top-up? I realize that that is where the curruption is rife, but is there anything we can do that isn't "steal-able?" I mean, I would like to build schools, but I know exactly where the building materials and computers are going if we send them.

btw, my favorite bit:

5) the deployment of western hippies with no understanding of what makes a capitalist economy tick; hippies that are given the chance to implement their dream of how they would like an economy to work (which never works in the real world) by pushing the recipients of foreign aid to accept their warped view of civilisation.

Beautiful.

Mind your own business USA

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't wire them for free.
All that you do is disturb the local economy with your free stuff.
Every time you give something to Africa you ruin a local merchant. The same thing goes with clothes. The textile industry in Africa is dead because of the USA giving clothes to Africans. Give them work.

What I've noticed in Mali...

[Enkerli]

is the strength of social networks and the ease with which people cope with situations.
Sorry for the self-serving perspective...I was in Mali (mostly the Bamako region) last year for the fieldwork part of my dissertation research (which has little to do with computers). As I had brought my iBook and went to an Internet café every day, computing and communication came up often in informal conversations. My personal feeling is that the well-known "leapfrog effect" could work there if the technology is integrated in the wider culture.
The article (correctly) points out the importance of "phone booths" in the region. Having spent numerous hours sipping tea and chatting at a local phone booth, I can see how it fits in a broader plan for Internet access. Add to it the amazing entrepreneurship of young Africans, the existing social networks linking Africans everywhere, and the low cost of online communication as opposed to road transportation, you have a winning proposition, in the long term.
Not exactly sure how it'll work in practice, but my bet is that it'll come from local initiatives more than from government plans.