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Port Mozilla, Collect $3696
An anonymous reader writes "The goal of the AmiZilla effort is to raise such an obscene/huge amount of money to give away to the first programmer/team that can port Mozilla to Amiga that Amiga programmers will be falling over themselves getting this application coded in record time.
The booty currently stands at $3696. Parties interested in making some extra cash to pay off student loans/go on a wild bender can find more infomation here."
can you feel the first post love?
Than coded fast. Code that is cranked out in record time ususally isn't efficient or stable. How do you verify that the winning code contains no major bugs?
My rights don't need management.
worked for me, so i'm probably going with it's a problem on your side
Is $3676 an obscene amount of money now?
___ Shout Central - Crushes your nuts!
Nothing like cold hard cash to get someones attention. This isn't "pay off the mortgage" kind of money, but better than a poke in the eye with a stick.
My old sig was REALLY stoopid.
If the port should take four man-weeks to do, that works out to about $23 dollars per hour. Somehow I think they're going to need to collect more bounty before developers would "fall all over themselves" for the task.
That said, if I had extra cash, I'd offer bounties for small programming tasks. My home life doesn't afford enough hacking time to do all of the ideas I write down, and I would love to parcel them out for a hobby-sized bounty to students or other junior coders who also want to use it as a learning opportunity.
[
Would Moz even be able to run on an 8 mhz Amiga 500.
You overclocked yours? 1337!
Of course it runs NetBSD. BTC: 1NT7QvbetmANwaMzhpVL6
That prize amount is pretty big, considering that it is larger than the total profits from selling Amiga computers for the past 10 years.
No offense, but this would pay for about 10 days of a junior developer's time.
Please, hold me back from coding it!
Are you people for real?
probably as well as the old ray-tracing programs ;)
The newest Amigas are AmigaOnes, 800Mhz G4 boxes
Your comment is the equivalent of "It's good to see the Windows community as fanatical as ever, would mozilla even run on a 16Mhz 386" or "Would QuarkXPress even run on an 8Mhz Mac Plus"
Mind you, the AmigaOne, having been out nearly a year now, still doesn't have an OS written for it.
I hear after Mozilla is ported, someone will be working on getting networking going for it.
Sounds like a desperate try to get software/developer support for the Amiga platform
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
I have contacted Bill already about this some weeks ago and suggested that it may be better to port either Webcore or GRE to Amiga. Here an excerpt of my email. I think it's quite illusionary requesting a port of Mozilla to Amiga specially now where the entire roadmap of Mozilla changes. Read on.
/A N-2003-05-00184-DE.html
/
----
Hello,
I don't know if you are the person responsible for the
http://www.discreetfx.com/AmiZilla.html
I would like to contact you because I think there are better ways to help the Amiga getting a good Webbrowser. There was a german Article about this on www.amiga-news.de which I have read and replied to.
http://www.amiga-news.de/de/news/comments/thread
Message 18 and 21. Sorry It's written in german Language so you may need to translate it using babelfish. I think you will understand it and the
contents of it.
But here a little summary.
I used to be a member of the Amiga community from 1984 - 1996 and left for Linux. I am following the Mozilla development process for various years now, contributed to it with bugreports and some minor patches, then went over to support the GALEON people.
My personal opinion is that porting Mozilla is a wrong way to go because of complexity and the required maintainership.
The mozilla approach was always criticised by many people of the open source community because of it's bloat. e.g. it's an entire development
plattform (basically a whole os and widgetset) that was also the reason why browser such as galeon, skipstone, epiphany or k-melon showed up,
they all used the embedded mozilla component and used their native window which fits pleasingly into the environment what many people simply wanted was a fast webbrowser which either fits into their desktop environment either GNOME or KDE.
Over the time the SAFARI people showed up and they have decided to take the KHTML component from KDE (supports DOM, CSS1 and CSS2, HTML4, JS,
SSL and so on), they ripped the library out of KDE, wrote a wrapper around it and called it webcore:
http://developer.apple.com/darwin/projects/webco re
the kde people then got told about this after safari got released and the safari and kde people are now working on one unified component e.g.
2 teams are working on one library, they are now up to separate the backend from the engine so you can simply take the library and have it used on whatever plattform you like. The link above shows you an old version of the webcore, it's not the same as they are using now.
During the time Safarit was announced the Mozilla people got heavily pissed off and decided to change their entire roadmap because they
finally realized that XUL (their widgetset) and their way of doing things wasn't attractive to the public thus their new roadmap is to create a separate suite the email client and then the webclient (in the means of phoenix (firebird)). they are also working now to separate the
frontend from the backend and thus they work on the GRE component called Gecko Runtime Environment which offers alternative browser to use a
light library instead the requirement to install the whole mozilla stuff.
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/embedding/GRE.ht ml
------------------
The point is, that I think it would be better to work together with one of these two teams either the KHTML team or the GRE team and have these
libraries ported to the Amiga rather than porting the entire mozilla project. The problems with Mozilla port could be various. On the one hand is that you need to deal with the Maintainers of mozilla. A lot of individual people that you need to explain why you want to have Amiga support in it and then the various complex problems that may show up. I know from various developers who tried to port Mozilla to GTK2+ plattform that this caused an neverending flame wether they go Pango (for fontrendering, language and AA) o
Programmer/team must be falling over themselves saying "That's a lot of loot! But what is Amiga?". Since they're getting all our work anyways, let them do it.
CEOs who can't spell "donor" must be retarded.
1. Make an x86 emulator.
2. Boot Windows....er... linux.
3. Install Moz.
Profit.
Heck I'd pay 3639$ to see Moz ported to my Gameboy Color [the Z80 one] that in itself would be a feat!
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
Yes a Firebird port would also qualify for the money...
That sounds wayyy more feasible.
Yeah and sorry for my bad english and bad explaination.
A last note. I was talking about GRE (Mozilla Gecko) and KHTML (Safari Koqnueror) libraries all the time.
These are full rendering components available as libraries. See it as an object. You write a native Amiga Window, add a toolbar, add a bookmarks system and there where you want to see the rendering stuff, you simply put the HTML rendering object inside. It's like putting a big pushbutton in the middle of the window (adding a gadget to your window). Mozilla don't remain the way it is now the entire 1.4 roadmap changes.
It was:
Mozilla (email, chat, web)
It becomes:
Gecko Runtime Engine
-
|
|-> Firebird
|-> Galeon
|-> K-Meleon (dunno if the stick to it)
|-> Other app if wanted
|-> AmigaOS Browser (MorphOS Browser)
It was:
Konqueror (Web)
It becomes:
the Core
-
|
|-> Konqueror
|-> Safari
|-> Other app if wanted
|-> AmigaOS Browser (MorphOS Browser)
You see you don't need to care for either GRE or KHTML anymore, their developers (usually big teams) keep the rendering engine up to date, keep them fast, keep them cool. And the Amiga, Safari etc. teams add their little backends to it (e.g. wrapper for widgetsets, OS filecalls etc). Even if you can't get your own widgets or filesystem calls inside it, then you still can grab always the ewest core from releases or CVS and have your little changes done externally knowing that you always be able to update from CVS.
1-2 mb of short library including everything ready to render if embedded in your window) compared to 30-40 mb of Mozilla hard to maintain and hard to share functionality amongst other apps. No reinventing of wheels over and over again because the components are all written already. I would tend to say that 1/2 of Mozilla as is now is code for plattform independency (such as own widgetset, own lowerlevel functioncalls etc.) 1/4 is the Widgetsets and Library interfaces for various OS's such as Windows, Mac, Linux and the remaining 1/4 is what really matters. And this 1/4 is being split out of it in a separate library called GRE. (Well I lied with 1/4 here it's probably a bit more but to give you a clue).
Of course porting a big project like Mozilla may attract customers and have them come back to AmigaOS (MorphOS).
Ok I hope I was informative and I hope you understand the translations of the replies I gave to www.amiga-news.de.
Exactly, we're all smart enought to use condoms!
I must admit I do enjoy filling a condom with beer and throwing it at a lousy band playing in the local pub
and then fell to the floor laughing uncontrolable because i found what i was looking for (its in the FAQ):
:DD
Q: What will be the requirements and the minimum spec for the Amiga version.
A: Well that will depend a lot on the programming team that tackles the port and their skillset but the spec I would like to see is Amiga OS 3.9 and above and/or WinUAE/Amiga Forever/Amithlon/AROS/MorphOS. 68030+ CPU, faster the better, 24 bit Graphics card, 32MB of RAM. I would also like the coders to try hard to make it work with AGA.
get it ! get it ! they are talking about the original amiga series, not the new one with the 600mhz PPC !
mozilla isnt even running lag free on my dual P3 with 512mb ram omg omg this is so over the top
You mean, I can finally get *gulp* booty for programming?!
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
-- Pablo Picasso
> Mind you, the AmigaOne, having been out nearly a year
> now, still doesn't have an OS written for it.
What do you call amigaos 4.0?
Working very hard on the soon to be released AmiZilla Mascot, she is very sexy
I'm almost temped to donate 10K to see just what sort of wild bender someone who finds a green lizard sexy would actually go on.
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
$3676? Hmmm....
/. for insipring your creative genius to aforementioned experiments.
$40 to build a shocking Xbox controller.
$100 to buy a Dremel Powertool to explode Steve Miller Cds to infinity
$300 emergeny room visit to have a RN look at your electrical burns on your hands and to pull CD shards out of your ass.
$3236 To start litigation against
Not on a 7 Mhz A500. But on a PPC upgrade classic system or AmigaOne computer @ 600 Mhz - Dual 1.4 Ghz AmigaOne running AmigaOS4 this would be powerful enough.
I just graduated CMU with a degree in CS, I'd take a $10 an hour job if I could find one.
The problem with this thing is that second place gets mo money. So if you coded for 150 hours and someone else finishes, then you got paid 0$/hr. To me, this is unacceptable because I always end up getting shafted like that.
God spoke to me
No doubt this will end in the usual arguments about who did what and when. It always does when money is involved. Humans are just too greedy.
This is more then the average kid makes all year. The 12-16 year old computer literate kids will be all over this. That is if they had a machine to work on. Hope that machine cost considerable less than 4K$
Get a free ipod.
Or ask her to tear of your nutts
that will also do the trick
no that will just stop the next pregnancy, not the current one.
What do you call amigaos 4.0?
"vaporware"
first place:
/dev/null
> Port Mozilla,Collect $3696
second place:
go directly to
do not pass go
do not collect $3696
it's not about mimicking reality, it's about believability
Unexpanded A500? Heck no. Needs more memory. That's all. =)
I guess, of course, that theoretically the Gecko part might be able to run (verrryyy slowly) as is with gobs of extra memory. The tricky part would probably consist of Assembly Optimization, including full hardware support. (Mmm, blitter...)
I don't think they'll be able to get the UI part itself ported properly. XUL stuff takes ungodly amounts of processor even on x86 hardware. They'll probably do what everyone else's doing and put a native GUI around Gecko.
No, aside of those things, I know very little of Amiga, I'm a C64 guy... =) I'm guessing a lot here.
However, I know that in Commodore scale, 1 MHz of MOS6510 with 64k of memory is about 16MHz of 386SX with 1 meg of memory in the PC world, so logically, a 8 MHz m68k with 512 kb of memory would be 128MHz with 8 megs of memory in PC world. Or something.
You still have the NSPR and Makefile system, and some assembly used by XPCOM to contend with, but the length task of writing widgets and gfx classes from scratch would go away.
In other news two bald men were seen fighting over a comb.
perfect. a browser named after a giant lizard, ported for the ultimate extinct dinosaur OS!
...get coding, jailboy!
"Smoking helps you lose weight - one lung at a time" -- A. E. Neumann
Port Mozilla to Linux (Linux without SCOde) --> Show code to SCO --> Collect $1,000,000. SCO sues Mozilla, collects $1,000,000,000 from AOL!
Enjoy.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
One of the sponsors in their list gave 5 bucks and a link back to his site; www.sendmeapound.com. Go check out his Pound-O-Meter. I love an optimist, but not enough to give him money. :-)
Money for nothing, pix for free
Ehh, what you call "a real computer" is probably
much cheaper than ANY Amiga...
I personally use AmigaOS and compatible OSes
cause I like them, not for any religious or financial reason.
MorphOS on PegasosPPC does the job.
Alkis Tsapanidis
Or make even more people happy - somebody please port Firebird/Phoenix to Mac OS9. There are a ton of us who have not made the jump to OS X, and I for one have gotten to really like Phoenix on my work pc. The last Mozilla port to the old mac is 1.2.1 from last December. I feel abandoned.
-Jetset
-I can't hear the forest now for all the falling trees
What a cool version of the game that would make, eh?
It's good to see someone interested in mozilla for Amiga, something that could be considered to be a standard up to date web browser.
I honestly don't know what I used on the amiga in ages past, I just remember I made the mistake of accepting some 2.x roms and could no longer do that software load of 3.x [exact version number I can not remember presently]
From what I remember, even if you had AGA or 3rd party 24 bit graphics, in my case it was a retna (sp) card, your web browsing experence was pretty limited due to the fact that the stock amiga graphics were at best 16/32/64 colors. I don't honestly remember the details, it's not like you couldn't get 4096 colors, just apparently not for things like gif or jpeg files.
Which brings another point all together, pre 68030 based machines are not really the best at web browsing unless you have a math-co. Gifs are not so bad, jpegs however are pretty slugish. This is not to say that modern amiga users don't have accelerators... this is to say such a product would only be useful to those people.
Perhaps someone wiser then I could remember the particulars, I really couldn't be bothered being nickle and dimed on my amiga, so I just went with lynx and got frustrated and went to the PC.
So issues I see with this project
1. Would browsing in 8bit color or above graphics require a specific rom set?
2. How ever are you going to find a math-co for jpeg decoding.
This is actually comming from a person who was and still is to an extent a big amiga fan. Part of the reason I had to abandon it was the simple fact that even web browsers that were made for the amiga required money from me to display properly.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
both amiga programmers will be fighting hard to get the cash.
I used to use the GCC tools on the amiga (ADE - or whatever it turned into). But then that slowly went stagnant - and it was 10x faster to cross-compile stuff on the FreeBSD/Pentium166 than to wait for the A3000/'030.
When Amiga/PPC hardware started appearing, I was keen to do some portage of unix-ish type stuff - except the PPC dev toolchain was so woeful it made me want to cry.
sigh.
Cool, but useless.
34 minutes!?
The horrors of running MS Windows...
---
The combined human population is enough to feed every living tiger for app. 28000 years.
Thanks for that. I feel so stupid!
I shall now decapitate myself with a hover mower.
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRSCHLIP!
Hmmm.
Unfinished and unreleased :-(
Humble opinion: In Open source it is more important to have something to start with so others can follow someone's lead, than have something to finish with, so no one else has anything to add.
Besides, they do mention "Beta", beta == feature completeness with only minor problems. Should be okay.
SOrry kid, if you want to play it safe submit your resume to Microsoft, or IBM. OR the government- you get a great pension.
I understand that your cost benefit/risk analysis leads you to the unknown- that you could get nothing.
BUt if you are saying that you'd take a $10 an hour job, you are obviously more than a little hungry for some new opportunity.
Opportunity costs upfront; you have to risk it. No you can't count on winning, so make sure you have some contingency plan.
However As my buddy sielwolf pointed out America is about risk and opportunity. America awards mavericks- and to be one you have to have the skills to back it up and the audacity to pull it off.
If you aren't brave enough to risk a months effort for a potential gain of NOT only $3 grand but REAL experience porting an enormous software project- basically being an integrator. Integration is where the market is AT right now.
From a CS CMU graduate, I would expect a lot more.
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
What do you define as a proper computer? A PC? Commodised hardware != well designed hardware. x86 is crap and deserves to die.
It's fun and all, but couldn't that money have been better spent on rewarding developers to make something more likely to be useful? I'm sure the crowd here can come up with a long list of more deserving sources for a couple thousand dollars.
I'll start by nominating the EFF.
God I miss those days.
1) Get real. 2) FORGET asm opts and ANY hardware banging HW acceleration. The port should be a clean, MUI using port, for anyone using 68040/60 (slow but ok), 603/604(acceptable) or G3/G4 (cool!). Forget any of the old baggage.
Just because it's a niche market, that doesn't make it not a proper computer. Was the BeBox not a proper computer?
I've heard it's easier to port khtml instead of Mozilla. The relative ease that the Apple and the Aetheos guys ported it perhaps shows this.
What are you doing? Loading it from tape?
READY.
LOAD "MOZILLA"
PRESS PLAY ON TAPE AND PRESS ENTER
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
it was a nice platform in its days. I can understand the nostalgy. If today's computers were done with the same smarts that the Amiga was made with we'd be in a better state of affairs.
There seems to be some confusion with regard to which OSes/solutions this effort is directed at. Currently there are 4 main 68k Amiga compatible solutions DiscreetFX would like to see supported. For two first one listed below PPC native versions would be preferable:
o ryid=560
1) AmigaOS4
This is the official new AmigaOS developed for classic Amigas upgraded with PPC accelerators and new AmigaOne computers which are being sold with G3 and G4 processors.
Some of the latest but still unfinished screenshots of AmigaOS4:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?st
AmigaOne motherboards can already be bought in combination with Linux at the following dealers (AmigaOS4 will be delivered for free as soon as it is finished): http://www.eyetech.co.uk/amigaone/dealers.php
With MOL MacOS X can also already be used with this system (as well as with the Peg below):
http://www.anythingamiga.com/XEPics/x2.jpg.html
2) MorphOS
Its ABOX environment is a re-implementation of version 3.1 of the Amiga operating system. The re-implemted Exec kernel is hosted on top of a Quark microkernel. The OS is fast and responsive and currently runs with G3 Pegasos motherboards. Interested people will have to wait for the Pegasos II, which is planned for release in September. An interesting review can be found at OSNews:
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=3589
3) AROS
An open source project intended as a multi-platform re-implementation of version 3.1 of the Amiga operating system. Most of the development takes place on x86 computers. Much of the source code was used for MorphOS. http://www.aros.org/
4) UAE, Amithlon and other 68 AmigaOS emulators
AmigaOS XL: http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=604
Amiga Forever: http://cloanto.com/amiga/forever/
Hey, that's great. The goal is to raise an obscene/huge amount of money, but they currently have a little over $3500? I think they would need at least $10k for it to be considered big, and more than that to be obscenely huge. The faster it gets programmed, the less they have to pay. If that kitty sits for a year, I am sure there might be a considerable amount of money in it, but then it wouldn't exactly be done in record time.
An interesting idea, kind of like an open contract - but it sounds a little hyped to me. But with all the out-of-work programmers out there, any job is a good job I guess.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Perhaps Mozilla will be ready when AmigaOS4 is released.
--
Reverse outsourcing: it's the future
No it will not :) Amiga is not going to go away. We will always be here and ready to annoy people like you :)
That alone is reason enough.....
LOADING
LOAD ERROR
READY.
RUN
READY.
And now that slashdot has decided I'm lameness-filtered, I have to put an explanation in non caps to explain that this explanation in non caps is here to get past the lameness filter.
I'm guessing that this(Google Answers)) might be a source of labor that would satisfy your desires.
Isn't there a java version of mozilla available? I know nothing about amiga, but am I being stupid asking if there is a Java VM available for it?
IMHO, if there isn't, it would be more beneficial porting a VM, because then the amiga could run both Phonenix (mozilla port) and it would allow for developement/execution of many other java apps too..
No, that was under KDE. Under GNOME it takes 48 minutes to load. Even with FVWM2 it takes 16 minutes.
Was the person that posted this story drunk? The challenge is so poorly described it almost seems like a spoof. "News for Nerds ... Quality Doesn't Matter".
Not if done as a precaution.
No, But I hope to get my WIFE pregnant some day.
---- "Excuse me. Where's the children's gun section?"
Amiga does have vorking browsers. When people do want to port Mozilla it does not mean there is no working browsers. Amigas current browsers lack some modern features and that's why we want Mozilla. Otherwise those current browsers are quite good and fast (Ibrowse, Voyager)
I'll pay $17 for the first person to port Mozilla to the Commodore 64. Bonus of $3 if you don't require a double-notched floppy.
I ported the Amiga OS to run on the Dreamcast?
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
Next official PPC native AmigaOS :)
Don't you have to pass Go first?
"Smoking helps you lose weight - one lung at a time" -- A. E. Neumann
Didn't they stop making those like 10 years ago? Might as well port Mozilla to Windows 3.11
It will not take long anymore until OS4 is released. I would not be surprised if it is released before end of this year.
To make an AmigaOS skin and put that on your Mozilla running in Linux? I would agree that it would be fun to have a working copy of Mozilla to run in UAE to show my friends but I honestly don't see any real world use. Even in AmigaOS4 is finished, it isn't going to revive the Amiga to its 1980's glory days. The Mac and the PC have long taken over the reigns that the Amiga once held in sound and graphics. I'd much rather see the efforts go into a more modern and existing OS like Linux or even Mac OS X.
'Same speed C but faster'
You might be more right than you think.
Gay people tend to be open minded too, hence more gay people would be using Linux, OSX or BSD. Narrow-minded people like yourself most likely use windows and never look for alternatives.
Ceterum censeo Microsoftem esse delendam
The Amiga is dead. Let it lie. Sure, it was a great machine in its day, but that was a long time ago. You can't cling pointlessly to the past...
"Information wants to be paid"
That is what she told you.
Newsflash: You are not going to be a father.
Ceterum censeo Microsoftem esse delendam
Usually when people say "it cannot be done", "it's not possible" or "who would be stupid enough to do such a thing?", someone steps up and does it. They usually do it for the kick and fun of it, not even for money.
:o)
I would be very interested in seeing who gets this done and he/she sure deserves the money.... I just donated $50
Going by your logic, that means Moz should be able to run on a C64* or a C128 (*with a Maxed Out Super CPU, Ramlink, and a HDD).
;)
Since a SCPU has 16MB of Ram and a 20Mhz W65C816S, so logically, it would be comparable to a 320Mhz Pentium with 256 MB of Memory in the PC world, heck with that logic, it might even be possible to port M$ Windoze XP to the SCPU then.
I know it is hard to understand these days, but way back when the Amiga roamed the Earth, the customer asked developers for something, developers created said product, and were paid for their efforts.
Thankfully, The Company (not Kompany) came along and changed all that. Now the developer tells the customer what they want and either gets paid a lot, or nothing at all. It is much easier for the developer now.
More power to these guys. If more projects worked for donations, we might get a finished GUI app once in a while.
I need to go donate a few bucks...
If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. - James Madison
the internet is slow enough already? why make it slower by putting it on slow computers? next you'll be wanting it porting to the even less alive Atari machines.
Amiga went Bankrupt in 1994?
The company transfered owners 3 to 5 times?
Took 6 years to decide which processor they were going to use.
Now an Amiga called Power one, still doesn't have an OS for it?
Now Amiga needs a port of Mozilla?
Sounds like the cart before the horse.
Zombie on Amiga!
how Microsoft employees feel. Get the job done quick, you're commended for your speed, it can be improved on later, and you get good money. Tell me you wouldn't want a job like that!
This is my digital signature. 10011011001
he probably has an nvidia card and hasn't gotten the correct drivers for it (assuming we're talking linux). When I did a fresh install of Mandrake, I forgot to install the driver and was met with some pretty slow action across the board.
This is my digital signature. 10011011001
This story made it to the Mozilla, Technology, The Internet, The Almighty Buck, and News categories, but didn't make the Amiga category? Nice system, fellas. Should make it easier to find articles in the future.
The actual amount is $3696.052
-
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
What would the purple squares be?
--
Reverse outsourcing: it's the future
Too bad the RIAA will probably pay close attention to this and then sue the winning person(s) for their life savings + 3969.
I can imagine when this generation has kids, and they are fighting on the playground...
Kid1: My daddy can beat up your daddy!!
Kid2: No he can't!
Kid1: Yes he can!
Kid2: Well... your daddy is narrow-minded!
Kid1: *sobs*
This is not the greatest sig in the world, no. This is just a tribute.
I can understand that. Dog eat dog. Some men are better than other men. Yah thats exactly why I called you an idiot, because your beliefs. My main goal is to help humanity by finding a job that does medical research.
Imagine that, theres men out there that don't worship money like its their god. I know you feel sorry for me that I don't have alot of money, but I feel sorry for you. Someone with alot of money doesn't automatically make that person helpful to society. Look at all those rich people who run auto/health insurance, or lawyers. They hurt society but make a great deal of money in the process.
God spoke to me
Gay people should be 'removed' from the population. They're hindering our evolution. /open-minded atheist who actually cares where our species is headed
..on the Quark xpress thread. IF all the people/customers who were forced by their company products needs to use closed source, overly expensive and long in coming propietary software, if they would just start a fund, all the customers donate to it some significant cash,and offer it to the best open source and free effort out there, they could get way better products, and probably faster, too. The reverse-leeching concept. It's completely logical, has little downside to it, costs a pittance compared to the endless stream of frustration dealing with those large clueless shops. 10% of a normal "license" for some closed source stuff, going instead to developers of open and free, would most likely work quite well in most instances. It certainly ups the enthusiasm for coding I would bet! And it would put well deserved and tremendous pressure on those closed source places to get real on profits,and to get real on quality. It's just another form of competition that isn't in wide use yet, because it requires actually slapping down some cash in advance, rather than the coders slaving away for free then relying on the begware after the fact model.
You have to weigh the risk and reward before deciding to do something.
We have numbers in this example. This person wants to make at least $10 an hour; we are assuming that the person who wins this contest will get $23 an hour. If the chances of winning are more than 10/23 = 43%, then this is a worthwhile risk.
You are right to point out that there would be non-monetary benefits to doing this work (which is of course one reason why people volunteer for Open Source work). In this case, however, we can safely assume that the non-monetary benefits are worse for this project than others that are available, or else there would be no need for an added financial incentive.
You are right that porting is an important skill, but porting to Amiga? Why not pick a porting project for a more popular computer? There are benefits to doing this port, but I'm afraid the financial benefits are probably the most significant.
-- Pot is safer than Beer
Thanks for the advice, I've sent out 1000's of resumes, but never got anything past a "Recieved your resume" I've never had an internship or anything. Its wierd too because I am qualified, just never got any chances.
/ resume/ ideas.html
n dex2. html
I have ideas for stuff that'd been successful in the past:
http://delvedesigns.com/websites/clancrazy
I do work on lots of external projects. I'm working on a MMORPG right now some info can be found at:
http://delvedesigns.com/websites/clancrazy/i
God spoke to me
How does one go about knowing the sexuality of a OS? And what's worse is, when will these desires come out?
"Mo~~~~~~~m, Windows is trying to hump the sofa again."
"Damnit... OK, hon, just squirt it with the spray bottle."
With company over, that could be down right embarassing.
You are right that porting is an important skill, but porting to Amiga?
You pose a good point, however this is all about spin.
You are presenting this to your potential employer as "Hey, I took a large Software Engineering project and ported it to a platform on which I had little previous experience. So if you hire me and you have porting work to do, even if it is on a platform that is brand new, I have overall experience in the act of replatforming."
Maybe the guy who has experience in the platform they are porting to will get hired before you do, but what if the issue is that they have the legacy system which NO ONE KNOWS how it works, and the want to port FROM it? Something like this would be a perfect project to prove that you are the guy to do it.
Is that too much of a long shot for you?
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
It's original release date was early 2000. That's only 3 and a half years late.
You'd go around buying up domains, and then praying that a horde of Slashdotters doesn't come, overturn your furniture and burn your pets?
I'd play.
You're thinking of Jazilla
I'm also waiting for the Squeak version (which runs on top of a VM BTW).
I'm working on a MMORPG now, and I plan on doing it for 2-5 years before release:/ xyzimation /xyzim.htmc razy/mmog/
http://www.geocities.com/james_sager_pa
http://delvedesigns.com/websites/clan
My skills I will learn from this MMORPG will then let me code AI within 20-50 years:
http://www.geocities.com/james_sager2/
My personal problem is that I can't get in with ANY organization even though my qualifications would seem to be alright. Throwing in "ported mozilla to amiga" would trivialize my qualifications as there are several things I've done that I haven't even documented.
So you're getting all out of control on a ton of false assumptions of who I am. I know who you are, you're just a self assured prick. Its easy to do, once you get money, to not care about people who have none. Play it off like they're ignorant. But if you want to admit it or not, we do have an educated poor class thats growing.
How am I supposed to "risk it" when I have nothing but my life to gamble with. Pull a 9 on Bill Gates?
God spoke to me
Please keep posts on topic
Please keep posts on topic
Please keep posts on topic
filler:
ooga booga oga boga heheheh
When you're 70,000$ in debt, sure I'll be in my mid 30's by the time I can finally get my own apartment, but at least I'll no longer be a burden on my family.
God spoke to me
The Xbox crowd recently held one of these sorts of efforts... to get a successful N64 emulator ported and working well on the Xbox.
It's working quite well, too... in the first pass, only one entry made it, but it looks like it will handle 32MB games by the deadline.
BTW: The booty on that one was something like $2500.
Real? I'm a Commodore fan, you expect me to be realistic to any degree? Sheesh, some people. =)
(Hrm, is it time for my annual "GEOS still beats the crap out of Windows" post? =)
Oh, and like I said, I'm not familiar with exact details of Amiga, much less with development. My insistence on asm/hw was based solely on experiences with C64: "If you aren't doing it in raw hex, you aren't doing it Heroically." =)
<digress> ...just last week I coded something in C64 BASIC, the most evil, wretched, soul-eating thing Microsoft has ever released. I live, but only just that. This may, in part, explain why I have weird ideas ... still trying to recover from the shock... </digress>
Well I agree about the spin part, and I also agree that porting to an unfamiliar computer is an important skill. However, it is hard to spin this sort of thing on a resume, and you'll have to depend on an HR person to decide that plenty of experience with long-irrelevant platforms is a good thing, not a bad thing.
:-)
I believe this project would be valuable experience, but someone skimming resumes probably won't. That is the reason I don't bother to highlight my extensive DOS experience, or my excellent knowledge of 6502 assembly language and Commodore Pets
-- Pot is safer than Beer
Well, the equivalence as I said isn't exact and definitely won't work with a closer examination - I meant the "Commodore scale" less seriously, but apparently the packet with a smiley was inadvertedly tagged with the Evil Bit and NSA's new router blocked it (or something). They're not comparable raw power, of course - More like what I felt I could do with them...
Honestly, In my opinion, the only reason, in the end, why I liked Windows 3.0 (on the 386SX) over GEOS (on C64) was that the PC had a hard drive and a sharper display (not to even mention the fact that Win3 had scandinavic characters). The usability otherwise was about the same. But would Win3.0, theoretically, compile and run on C64? Of course not. Would it be possible to make a C64/SCPU web browser that would be as nice as Mozilla on PC? Probably.
Duh. The original post about the 8MHz amiga is correct...'cause you can't run jack shit on the 'new amiga'. Hah.
Blar.
from your previous parent post: My main goal is to help humanity by finding a job that does medical research.
;) I'll Wayne Gretzky on any MC.
From this parent post I'm working on a MMORPG now, and I plan on doing it for 2-5 years before release
Gee, you sure are working HARD on that main goal, aren't ya?! [/sarcasrm]
Whatever kid.
Throwing in "ported mozilla to amiga" would trivialize my qualifications
Okay, good point. So for you, the only pay off would be the 3 grand, and thats not a sure thing.
I know who you are, you're just a self assured prick
DAMN STRAIGHT, mutherfucker!
How am I supposed to "risk it" when I have nothing but my life to gamble with. Well, your answer is right there- YOUR LIFE. Gamble with that. Oh, but how? And how to do it without completely compromising your principles, etc?
Thats the eternal question. If you can't see the answers, then DON'T risk it. However, if you'd like some help, Ask Rustin.
One last thing:
So you're getting all out of control on a ton of false assumptions of who I am.
I can make one true assumption about you. You are afraid. And that's not even an assumption, thats something that screams out in your writing; from these messages on slashdot to your webpage.
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
I'm with you, brother.
The two Amiga users left will have to split the money (and learn how to program), but $1800 or so is still quite a chunk of change. If this were 1985, they'd be able to buy a new Amiga with that kind of cash!
- A.P.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
"The newest Amigas are AmigaOnes, 800Mhz G4 boxes"
Nice try, but wrong.
You are describing a PPC system which runs Linux, NOT an Amiga.
Yes, there is supposedly a PPC version of AmigaOS in development, but given Amiga Inc stated that it woudl be released in Summer of 2001, and here we are 2 years later and it is STILL not available, you are way off the mark calling your Linux box an Amiga.
It would take more than a years salary (100k+)to make me go back to the Amiga, but then again if they get there I will consider it!
DOH!
Evil Man.
Yr right- this is not knowledge for HR, this is for AFTER you have the interview with someone ( a technical manager) who is already on the project.
Despite coming in handy on my current project, I'm not sure if I would advertise my assembly expertise, either!
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
Eww, that furry cartoon holding the amiga beachball is kinda creeping me out.
_nfotxn
The computing world hasn't stood still since 1994 when Commodore went bust - so why do so many non/ex-Amiga owners think that the Amiga has also?
Most of our members have powerful Amiga setups ( http://www.swaug.org.uk/members.html ) enough power to run Mozilla. Myself I'm typing this on my Broadband enabled Amiga with 256Mb RAM and 330GB Hard disk. We "poor old" Amiga owners have USB 2.0, 3D Graphics cards, 5.1 Digital Sound cards, DVD-ROMs and CD-ReWriters. So as you can see the Amiga market isn't all that bad- we're not expecting to run Mozilla on 1Mb A500's!
SWAUG.org.uk
Gosh, what an amazing way to take a bunch of people who could probably make a great port if they worked together, and remove all incentive for them to work together. While you're at it, encourage them to work fast instead of smart.
That money could have bankrolled a machine and hosting to set up a collaborative effort.
Took me 12 hours but I am finally done. The PUT requests were hard.
Where is the money? I'd like to collect it please!
BG
But I have no money for gas, so I'm pretty much stuck in this shithole.
God spoke to me
Not sure about MorphOS, but it's not going to happen on AmigaOS:
- improper memory handling. processes fragment each others memory since all processes run in the same address space.
- no resource tracking. it's common to lose important resources from the os even if nasty processes have been killed.
- no memory protection between processes. memory corruption is nasty!
- inefficient IO system: no proper caching
- processes have to be loaded fully to memory. no mmap() on amigaos. (someone will say hunk overlays to this, but it will not help)
Because of that, totally shitty result is quaranteed.
You should try rentacoder.com, you can do exactly this - post a programming job you want done with a maximum bid and then let people fit over how cheap they will do it.
This site seems especially popular with 3rd world skilled programmers who are willing to do quite a bit of work for very little money. I know several Asian (British meaning) programmers who would are quite happy with $8/hr - and they are fairly experienced. I've heard this site is putting many US programming consultants out of work because they can't compete with those rates.
On one hand this is bad news for us US programmers - but on the other hand it present an avenue where we can find work here and resell it. I'm thinking about posting some large projects there for things I'd like to do if I had the time - but don't.
Jonathan
-- Virtual Windows Project
Well, DON'T put that kind of shit on the resume. The only purpose of a resume is to get past trained HR monkeys and get an interview with someone who has a clue. If it doesn't do that, try to fix it. Try to make it easy for HR people to see that you meet the requirements for a given job -- even if it's something as basic as "proficient with MS Word". Use bulleted lists and make it easy to skim / sort. However, don't make yourself appear overqualified for a position -- if you are applying for an entry-level job, having too many extra qualifications can hurt you. The company might think you will leave as soon as you find another job.
If you do get interviews, that may be a good time to point out various skills that may impress the person who is actually hiring. The person hiring is often a project manager, and relevant skills and cool job-related hobbies may distinguish you from other candidates. Be careful, though.
With all that said, it must nevertheless be recognized that the best way to find a job is through networking. If someone you know can recommend you personally to fill a position, that will carry much more weight than anything an HR department can say. Of course, it depends on the organization, but keep in mind that the hiring manager can often request a position or fudge some requirements to favor a candidate. In fact, many advertised jobs are filled before they are even advertised -- that's why you may not even get an interview when you reply to job ads.
Dear Billy Gates,
The heathens are trying to port the evil Mozilla to the Amiga operating system. They must be stopped! You need to create a port of the lovely Internet Explorer before they can port Mozilla. This will deprive the infidel Mozilla coders of the precious Amiga userbase. You must act swiftly as this is a matter of extreme importance.
Praise Allah,
A. Coward
How come the Linux coders work for free/nothing/$0 and the Amiga coders make all the cash/money/booty!???
irony abounds! hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
With apologies to Han, getting a port isn't the hard part, it's getting a maintainer. Classic Mac Mozilla had no maintainer, and now it's gone. It would take months to clean out the bitrot even if someone was interested.
If the Amiga folks spend their money on just a port they're going to have pissed it away if noone steps up to maintain it.
What architecture does the latest Amiga use? It would be better to invest in a binary compatibility layer on the OS for say, a linux version on the same hardware (assuming there is X for Amiga).
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
I bet I could get Netscape 0.9 (which Andreesen and co. referred to as 'Mozilla' back in the day) ported to the Amiga platform without too much effort... anyone got the source?
Hundreds of comments, and not one early one with the obvious joke? How terribly disappointing... ;-)
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
"A CMU CS degree and a port of Mozilla under your belt would likely be a Good Thing"
To who? The person would be better off working for free for a non-profit.
This has all the makings of "in the basement of the science building", and would probably be a net *negative* on a resume.
IMHO, a better idea than porting Mozilla to AmigaDOS is to build a POSIX compatibility layer for AmigaDOS. In other words, do exactly what BeOS did. Once you've done that, Mozilla becomes a helluva lot easier to port. Yes, you still need a GUI, but it is also possible to run X11 on AmigaDOS, so that'd be one way of solving that problem.
The reason I suggest this is that having a POSIX compatibility layer would allow you build a wide variety of apps -- qmail, Apache, etc., etc., etc. This could be a big bonus for the Amiga world b/c if some software isn't available natively for AmigaDOS, then there's a good chance you can easily port some Unix software that does what you want.
In other words, it's about the same amount of work, probably, but you get sooooooo much more out of it...
Only it isn't
Move over to a serious platform if you want serious software, in the 90s i was a mega Amiga fan till 99 then i went elsewhere because the hardware is slow, proper software is not available and FFS you can not do something simple as watch a DVD on one which is standard these day and as for webbrowsing and other internet tools the Amiga is stuck in the dark ages with no chance at becoming serious anymore.
Good Amiga memories but as it is now i am happy to leave a machine which software wise is still to this day stuck in the 90s on the shelve and let it rot.
Good Day
Only an Amiga fan could fail to see the contradiction between the second and third paragraphs there.
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
So I fire up an instance of Mozilla on 32-bit Sun, and it takes 39MB just to open to "about:blank". Open slashdot.org, and the process size increases to 42MB.
i86 Linux: open to blank page, 21MB; surf to slashdot.org, 24MB.
How will this fit on an '030 Amiga? I don't think memory sizes beyond a few dozens of MB were common, were they?
from www.helixcommunity.org
AMD is looking for developers interested in porting the Helix DNA to AMD's recently launched 64-bit Opteron CPU. AMD has development hardware available for those that are willing to contribute their work. If someone can nail this, they are welcome to keep the loaner system. Please contact Conor Malone (conor.malone@amd.com) for details on this offer.
I'd rather do that, than porting Mozilla. Mozilla is like 10 times bigger than Helix.
--- Eat my sig.
You think maybe the way I talk to forum trolls may be different than the way I talk to people I like or deal with. Nah, that couldn't be. Just because I want to help humanity doesn't mean I like the lot of you :)
God spoke to me
The over all effect of HMO's in my area is that they drive hospitals bankrupt, and pull the plug asap.
Car insurance is almost worse. You can easily pay more money than your car is worth. If you do get in an accident, your insurance company plays every game in the book so they don't have to pay you.
God spoke to me
Opera gets coded to run on all sorts of platforms. I can run it on Red Hat Linux 6.1 and on Mandrake 8.0.
MozillaFirebird only runs on Mandrake 8.0 on this box. If I reboot to Red Hat Linux 6.1, then I have to use Opera 6.12, or gasp! Netscape 4.76!
Don't we need Moz ported to RHL 6 before we do Amiga?
8 mhz? Really? One would think that Moz* would need at least 200 mhz. Also, it won't run on something like RHL 6, but Opera 6.12 will. On old legacy machines Opera's the champ.
The Booty is now $4045.45
WOW! The Amiga Lives
is there an amiga emulator that can be used to develop this?
Mozilla (such as it is) is bloated beyond comprehension. With Firebird there would still be a chance of running it.
The objective should also consider porting to PPC-Amigas only: 68k has enough trouble even without the Javascript-parser.
Wow, that's 13974 in decimal!
u h4ve been 0wn3d!!1.. luser.. ad u stil make no sence...
Opera has versions that run on relatively slow hardware (PDAs without floating point units). An 060 Amiga probably has as much floating point muscle as a modern 206mhz ARM simulating FP in integer math.
I don't see any reason why it's not theoretically possible to write a fast and compatible browser for Amigas with 68060 accelerators.
If you look at An 060 Amiga as having comparable throughput to something like a fast Dragonball Palm or a slow ARM but with lots more RAM, then it might be possible to adapt J2ME VMs and PDA-based plugins (like Flash) to the Amiga.
Not everyone has PPC accelerators in their Amigas since almost all software of any consequence was written for 68K and depending on your setup, it might not be possible to find an accelerator fast enough to justify the cost (most PPC accelerators cards for original Amiga hardware are ancient by today's standards).
I work on the Linux Dreamcast project and we (DC enthusiasts) are often compared to the Amiga zealots yet I don't think that we could muster as much enthusiasm for such a project :-/
So what ? All softwre projects get delayed. They have not huge amounts of money so development is slow. And a lot has happened during this 3 years.
I downloaded WinUAE today, and played with all three browsers. Voyager is a bit bloated, old, and ugly (try rendering Google, or ...shudder... Slashdot...). IBrowse is very fast, very old, and very ugly (try rendering ANYTHING...). AWeb-II is Opera fast and then some, wayyyy too old (seems like no JavaScript support), and about as ugly as IBrowse. I never tried the Amiga ports of Lynx, but the gui browsers were all shareware.
Hey Rucker, save up your money and buy a real computer from 1990+. You'll be amazed how much faster a nice Pentium 2 is than an Amiga POS. Do you play swords in the park with your buddies too?
Errm... I HAVE a Celeron 2GHz! I said I ran WinUAE, which is an Amiga EMULATOR!
OOOOHHH You have a celery? Who the hell cares? Climb back in your hole.
I have so much celery it hurts! 2466000000 times it hurts! (counting the 466MHz Celery!)
AWeb-II is Opera fast and then some, wayyyy too old (seems like no JavaScript support), and about as ugly as IBrowse. I never tried the Amiga ports of Lynx, but the gui browsers were all shareware.
No, AWeb is now free and open source (the licence is similar to the GPL I believe). I couldn't find it on Aminet, but you can download it from the website.
Also it appears to have some Javascript support (don't know how good it is though).
Thanks for clearing up some stuff... I had thought that AWeb-II was the current version of AWeb, in the same way that Excel is the current version of Multiplan, or SCOX is the current version of XENIX.