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Star Wars Galaxies - Release Date Announced

DCookie writes "It's official! The highly-anticipated PC MMORPG, Star Wars Galaxies, is set to hit the shelves on June 26th. The NDA for the Beta will most likely be lifted in the next few days as well, so be prepared for more info about the game soon!" The press release also has info on the subscription plans, which range from $12.00 to $14.99 monthly, depending on how many months you buy at once - the game will retail for $49.95 and include one free month's play.

106 comments

  1. I hope its not the Sims by nsda's_deviant · · Score: 1

    I really hope this doesn't turn out like the Sims online but here's for the best. I didnt follow the massive disapointment but does anyone know blow by blow why the Sims were such a disapointment?

    1. Re:I hope its not the Sims by raygundan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Because the fun in the Sims was being a control freak, and doing whatever you wanted with your Sims. In the online game, you can't really do that-- everybody else does what they want. And you have to work (do really boring repetitive tasks) to get money.

      Sims: Make fake people do what you want.

      Sims Online: The worst repetitive parts of an RPG, minus the plotline, plus all the fun of lamers yelling at eachother in a poorly-designed chatroom with no scrollback. And no control over anybody else, since they're all real too.

      In short, it simply can't be the same game online.
      You have to wonder why nobody pointed this out.

    2. Re:I hope its not the Sims by easychord · · Score: 1

      You have to wonder why nobody pointed this out.

      Because it was so obvious. Either they already knew it or were clinically deranged beyond the point of help.

      This game was a corporate bread heads dream game. What are the big cash cows on the PC at the momement? The Sims, Everquest..

    3. Re:I hope its not the Sims by Thunderheart · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I bought Sims Online and I can tell you why it sucked horribly.

      The user interface is great, but the way it connects to the world is horrible. There is no immersion. They didn't even TRY to facilitate immersion.

      Honestly, for the 25+ million dollars they spent on this game, it doesnt look like it. There is no free form movement. "Zones" like you see in other MMO's are a single city block. You can't even walk from block to block without zoning.

      If you work your way past that you have to spend time trying to get a house and a lot of other things right off the bat, but it just isn't fun.

      Im on the treadmill of life all day long. I sure as hell dont want to come home from work and do it over again...

      They focused to much on the "real" and not the fantasy that players want to experience...

  2. Game without a purpose by stefanlasiewski · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Hmm, last article was Robots without a Cause (products without a real purpose), and this article is about a game without a real purpose, that after spending $15 a month and wasting countless hours playing the game, you still feel unfufilled.

    Hey, there's nothing wrong with playing games now and then, but I'm sure that plenty of game addicts (myself included) can talk about what a life sucker these games can be.

    --
    "Can of worms? The can is open... the worms are everywhere."
    1. Re:Game without a purpose by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree 100%.

      MMORPGs can suck down your time in amounts that aren't even equalled by a real job. They're great if you can handle it, but wow are they addictive.

  3. Don't buy! not for the first few months anyways by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    I'm in beta, and the game is really unfinished. There needs to be a lot of tweaking done before it is ready. Give it a few months and it'll get there and be enjoyable. But right now it's only slightly better than AO was at launch.

  4. Ric is the man! by Squirrel+of+Doom · · Score: 0

    Cool, I want to play online as Ric Olie...
    "Look, there's a store!"
    "Hey, there's a ship!"
    "This server is laggy."
    "You catch on quick, kid."

  5. Re:Don't buy! not for the first few months anyways by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    No amount of tweaking will make this game fun. If you've played any other MMORPG, this will feel like the same thing.

  6. Stuff that MATTERS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    This place is "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters". If you know anything about nerds, you will know that Star Wars MATTERS, whether or not it is free.

  7. Re:Don't buy! not for the first few months anyways by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm also in the beta and agree. The game performs very well, but is way to complicated and requires too much time to get anywhere.

    I really tried hard to like the game, but it's just too tedious.

  8. Breaking the NDA by moc.tfosorcimgllib · · Score: 1

    There are already 7 asshats named Skywalker, and 58 variants of the name.
    "Do you want to pet my wookie" is not an appropriate question, it was worn out well before the first day was over.
    One last thing: If someone asks you if you are a god, you say YES!

    1. Re:Breaking the NDA by FroMan · · Score: 1

      One last thing: If someone asks you if you are a god, you say YES!

      Ghostbusters!

      [back on topic]
      What sounds a little surprising is that they didn't have a filter for skywalker variations. Or similar storyline names. They should have thought about that right away.

      --
      Norris/Palin 2012
      Fact: We deserve leaders who can kick your ass and field dress your carcass.
  9. PARENT IS A KNOWN TROLL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I seem to recall you posting at trollaxor.com. What gives? Are you selling out, or are you conducting one of those overdone slashdot troll experiments whereby you join the dark side?

  10. Does anyone realize just how AWFUL this will be? by DarkFencer · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Does anyone realize just how AWFUL this will be? Take Verant's atrocious customer service record, add in tons of StarWars fanboys, and add the highest monthly fee around for a MMORPG (Everquest Legends excluded) and you get the train wreck that will be Star Wars Galaxies!

    I'll be avoiding this like the plague thank you very much, though I will keep up on it to watch the train wreck develop. This could be a worse launch then Anarchy Online!

  11. I bent my wookiee ! by AtariAmarok · · Score: 2, Funny

    Is it OK to stumble and fall face first, and say "I bent my Wookiee"!, or is this worn-out too?

    --
    Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
  12. Despite what everyone says.. by JavaLord · · Score: 1

    I'm looking foward to playing Star Wars Online. Im just hoping there is plenty I can KILL and it's not a boring point/click/get experence like everquest.

    1. Re:Despite what everyone says.. by Devir · · Score: 1

      It's different from EQ. Run around for hours in a zoneless world. Find some random mob that happens to spawn. Point to it, double click, watch the pretty lasers. kill, loot. Bang head on keyboard/repeat. Though I do like the close to but not as good as UO style classless system, where you can get skill in anything you want as long as you use the item enough.

    2. Re:Despite what everyone says.. by gamgee5273 · · Score: 1
      Remember - this is between ANH and ESB. To paraphrase Han Solo: You ain't gonna be a Jedi here, boy. There's only one of them at this point: Yoda.

      The game should have taken place in the Expanded Universe...

  13. Will it be Buggy? by YomikoReadman · · Score: 1

    Right after launch, probably.. but then again, i haven't seen anything launch that wasn't buggy at first. Besides, this is Sony and LucasArts that we're talking about, so more than likely they'll have a patch or two out within a week of the launch to fix most of the bugs. As far as whether the launch will be a wreck like AO? Nah, there is way to many diehard geeks who want nothing more than to run around with a lightsaber or two and hack people up.. Myself Included, of Course.

    --
    I have no regrets, this is the only path.
    My whole life has been "UNLIMITED BLADE WORKS"
    1. Re:Will it be Buggy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Get this though. You won't be able to run around and hack things up with a light saber. Not unless you're willing to put in the time and dedication (read: money) into opening up the jedi slot. The devs claim this will take about 6 months to accomplish.

    2. Re:Will it be Buggy? by YomikoReadman · · Score: 1

      im willing to do that. ive put several times that into some of my pen and paper d&d characters. like take a lvl 1 character to lvl 60

      --
      I have no regrets, this is the only path.
      My whole life has been "UNLIMITED BLADE WORKS"
  14. Will Rainz be at the closing of the Beta? by Universal+Nerd · · Score: 0

    Rainz, for all us non-Ultima Online folks, is the guy that killed Lord British at the closing of the Ultima Online Beta.

    Story here.

    Dunno about you guys, but I'd like to off Lucas for two so massively crappy Star Wars. Mr. FBI Lurker-man: I am joking, I will not and would not even try to kill Mr. George Lucas.

    --
    Ash nazg durbatuluk, ash nazg gimbatul Ash nazg thrakatuluk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul
  15. Re:oh, boy! One whole month free? by YomikoReadman · · Score: 1

    Well, in most cases where you pay a month by month subscription fee, the fee goes into more better servers, and constant refinement of the game. That being said, as long as some portion of the fee goes toward that, and the servers aren't too laggy, then I really don't mind having to pay a fee.

    --
    I have no regrets, this is the only path.
    My whole life has been "UNLIMITED BLADE WORKS"
  16. Re:Don't buy! not for the first few months anyways by Devir · · Score: 1

    It's the most beautiful online world with almost nothing to do. Well, ok, Corellia would be a wonderful spot to have a picnic and watch the friggen butterflys all day long. ooooohhhh.

  17. Re:You have to pay for it?! by Jerf · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This site is reader driven. You know some news, submit it already.

    Plenty of free game information has been posted here. It so happens the commercial game community is much more vibrant, for much the same reasons that the commercial movie industry is more vibrant than the non-commercial one. (Looked at all the credits for a recent game lately?)

  18. Re:oh, boy! One whole month free? by Devir · · Score: 1

    Remember Planetside? Galaxies is following this path really close...

  19. Re:Don't buy! not for the first few months anyways by FroMan · · Score: 1, Informative

    Don't believe this guy. I'm not in the beta, but have played EQ. If you don't get in early with MMORPGs you might as well not play. Otherwise by the time you actually get in the economy is ruined and all the uber folks are camping a level 20 mob with their level 50 character cause they can sell for cash.

    I dunno. This guy might be right. But that is one of my major disappointments of EQ was economy trashing and uber folks camping low level mobs with high level characters.

    --
    Norris/Palin 2012
    Fact: We deserve leaders who can kick your ass and field dress your carcass.
  20. Re:Don't buy! not for the first few months anyways by sweetooth · · Score: 1

    You should probably pay a lot more attention to what the parent poster says. While those that get into a game early do have some advantages, they become pointless if the game is no fun later. It should also be pointed out that he is suggesting the game launch will be like Anarchy Online. I was a part of the AO beta and launch and it was so painfull I still have nightmares. So far I believe that AO has the record for worst MMORG launch. If Galaxies is only as finished as AO then the game won't even be playable for the first 90 days if not longer.

  21. Just Say No! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Itâ(TM)s a trap!

  22. Re:Don't buy! not for the first few months anyways by tx_mgm · · Score: 1

    I'm not in the beta, but have played EQ.

    ha ha. you have no idea how funny that sounds...just wait till you see for yourself...

    If you don't get in early with MMORPGs you might as well not play. Otherwise by the time you actually get in the economy is ruined and all the uber folks are camping a level 20 mob with their level 50 character cause they can sell for cash.

    as someone who IS in the beta, let me tell you:
    the economy will be just fine.
    maybe you have read this in other previews or whatever, but I'll say it anyway. This game is NOT be about "Phat Lewtz", and for that I already love it.
    I'm still suprised it's not delayed again (there are still some bugs that need attention), but even with the few bugs this game is AMAZING.

    --
    Gentlemen...BEHOLD!
    -Dr. Weird
  23. Error in headline by Snowspinner · · Score: 5, Funny

    It should properly read "Star Wars: Galaxies to begin charging for beta June 26th."

    But, then, I'm cynical, jaded, and broken.

  24. Re:Don't buy! not for the first few months anyways by FroMan · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ha ha. you have no idea how funny that sounds...

    Intended effect accomplished: I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV...

    Nah, I haven't been following the SWG stuff at all. My wife and I played EQ for about a year and half fairly regularly and quit around January. We really liked the game, even when we left. We found that in the high end game we needed to dedicate more than 8+ hours at a time to really get anyting done though. Alas, a flaw in the genre of game I think.

    Verrant seemed to only cater to the high end game though it seemed like (which makes sense economically as high end folks usually had multiple acounts and were usually the most dedicated). The didn't seem to care about mid level at all though. Very few quests were targeted for that range. Low level was just as bad until they added a couple new low level quests later on though (newbie armour).

    I guess I am skeptical that Verrent (SOE, whoever they are now) just simpley wouldn't make a game about combat. They only seemed to care about *Phat Lutz!* when we played. Maybe they truly make a decent tradeskilling adventuring roleplaying game, but I doubt it once the uber type folks make it into the game.

    As far as the game possibley tanking right out the gate? Sure, it possible. Either way, I don't think my wife and I will play this one. MMORPGs just seem like they take too much time once you get past a certain point. Its nice to take a couple hours and play a game, but when you are over like 4-6 hours to do anything, that is simpley too long. Too many other things in life to take care of.

    One that does sound appealing though on the surface is WoW. But I haven't heard anything about it other than some initial paraphenilia in the game rags. But I typically enjoy blizzard games.

    --
    Norris/Palin 2012
    Fact: We deserve leaders who can kick your ass and field dress your carcass.
  25. Jedi by Poofat · · Score: 1

    So, what your saying is, 3 months into the game, there will be bout 500 jedi. After that, the dev team will get mad and make it impossible to everyone else, while Jedi P0w3rd00d goes off and "ownz stuff lol."

    1. Re:Jedi by Sulihin · · Score: 1
      SWG FAQ regarding playing a Jedi.

      They've already considered this. Whether their solution is sufficient remains to be seen.

    2. Re:Jedi by tx_mgm · · Score: 1

      After that, the dev team will get mad and make it impossible to everyone else, while Jedi P0w3rd00d goes off and "ownz stuff lol."

      you know how the dev team says they're sticking with the storyline, and that it is set shortly after the events of ANH? And that roleplaying is going to mean something? Well, they meant it.
      Know what happens to a jedi with a big mouth when a very large and determined force is out HUNTING THEM TO EXTINCTION?
      Oh, and there is plenty reason to fear death as a jedi. And out of fear of breaking the NDA, I'll stop there and let you fill in the gaps.
      A jedi in the hands of a "1337 power-gamer" is going to be a hilarious spectacle.

      --
      Gentlemen...BEHOLD!
      -Dr. Weird
  26. Re:Don't buy! not for the first few months anyways by YaRness · · Score: 2, Funny

    You'll be hearing from my lawyers soon.

    -George Lucas, Inc.

  27. more money for a better game? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If SWG was better than the current crop of (cheaper) MMORPG's, I could justify the price. However, it's not any better. In fact I don't think it's anywhere near as good. Therefore they are charging too much.

  28. Re:Don't buy! not for the first few months anyways by Jahf · · Score: 3, Informative

    Sounds like the early days of Anarchy Online ... actually, sounds like the later days of AO, too.

    I gave on on AO after making repeated bug reports only to have the bug forums wiped not once but twice. After reposting I folded and retired. It was a real shame ... I enjoyed the game enough to work on hacks like skinning the interface and making a better in-game map. But the bugs that were in the final beta never got fixed and it made travel and such a royal pain.

    I got a free month awhile back and logged in to see if anything had changed ... nope. Not to completely badmouth, they did add quite a bit, but the core issues were still there. I got another free month recently and asked around before reinstalling the software and ... yep ... still bugged maps and travel. Not worth the reinstall.

    Here's hoping SW:Galaxies learned from those lessons. The Star Wars material is not enough to survive on alone. Especially after Episode I and II having been such a disappointment.

    --
    It is more productive to voice thoughtful opinions (reply) than to judge (moderate) others.
  29. Re:Don't buy! not for the first few months anyways by tx_mgm · · Score: 2, Informative

    I guess I am skeptical that Verrent (SOE, whoever they are now) just simpley wouldn't make a game about combat.

    I probably shouldn't touch on this one too much as the NDA is still in effect for a bit longer...but I'll tell you this: you can become extremely successful, respected and well-known across your galaxy WITHOUT engaging in any combat....ever (if you choose).
    just wait and see.....the people planning on "power-gaming" in SWG are in for a change of world-view, and I'll be enjoying every minute of it. And from what it sounds like in your post, you will too. =)

    --
    Gentlemen...BEHOLD!
    -Dr. Weird
  30. Why the retail price? by afabbro · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I really hate the MMORG model: $XX at the retail store + monthly fee. Why can't they just let people download the game (or buy it for $10)? $50 is a lot to gamble on a game you might not like after a month.

    Yeah, I know - it's to squeeze more money out of Joe Consumer. But I still hate it. I suppose with any game you're taking the risk that you won't like it or will get tired of it quickly.

    I think of Diablo II - great game that's fun even without the online experience. And they don't charge for that. So if a game company is going to sell a game that has *only* an online experience, why charge for the $50 shiny box?

    I'll pass.

    --
    Advice: on VPS providers
    1. Re:Why the retail price? by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      I've asked this before (and still hold the opinion) and some fanboy always runs along and says 'it's to pay for development and distribution costs' to which I say 'bullshit'.

      There is no reason to pay for distribution. With a game like this, Sony and/or Lucas could EASILY distribute the game online or directly. If the game has any hope of success, they'll have to be making enough money to reimburse the development costs.

      If they insist on charging for the box, they should provide at least a number of months free equal to price of box. IOW, if the game is 49.99 and the monthly cost is $15, you should get 3 free months. Or do it like that 'free HBO for three months' that your cable company advertises. Sure, you get three free months, but it's months 3, 6, and 9.

      If there are ANY issues in the beginning (which several are claiming) they will get the early adopters to stick around with these sorts of 'features' in the box sets. You go from "I'm not going to waste another dime on this POS" to "Well, I'll stick it out until my free time is up. If it's not cleaned up by then..." This gives them at least a few months to get their shit in order.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    2. Re:Why the retail price? by sweetooth · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There is no reason to pay for distribution. With a game like this, Sony and/or Lucas could EASILY distribute the game online or directly. If the game has any hope of success, they'll have to be making enough money to reimburse the development costs.

      That's right because bandwidth is free.... oh wait.. it isn't. Even if they set up a bunch of servers on high speed connections and add bit torrent links there is the problem of distribution, and it's expenses. It may not be as expensive to provide the game in a downloadable format, or it may be just as expensive, I haven't seen any formal statistics on the subject. It is obvious however that there is a cost associated with both the traditional method of distribution and internet distribution. It also completly ignores those people that cannot download the images due to a lack of adequate bandwidth. Of course you could distribute in both mediums, but that will probably increase the cost of traditional distribution due to decreased volume. I have a hard time believing that those increased costs will be offset by any reduction in cost due to internet based distribution.

      I've said this a dozen times already, but I guess I'll say it again. There are plenty of people willing to pay the full retail box price and still pay the monthly fee for these games. If nothing else, why should these companies change the model if they don't feel they are losing a significant number of customers. The fact that a few people bitch about the price of the boxed copy and don't buy the game is probably not the biggest concern of the bean counters when it comes to the bottom line as that group of people is clearly in the minority. If they weren't I'm fairly certain we would start seeing alternative distribution methods. If you don't think that these companies are willing to change thier distribution methods go take a look at the box sizes of older games and then compare them to the newer smaller boxes you see on all the store shelves. It may have taken a long time for that to happen, but it is progressing rapidly at this point. If enough people decide that they aren't going to play the games because of the initial cost the distributors may reduce the initial cost. Until then don't expect anything to change.

      If you want to know for you sure you might want to contact Funcom as they had downloadable versions of AO though at the full retail price. Though I doubt they will give that information out.

    3. Re:Why the retail price? by Sulihin · · Score: 1

      I'm still undecided on the model, but one of the benefits of charging both an up front fee and a recurring fee is that the up front fee for account activation makes it less feasable for those with the intent to simply make an account to make other players unhappy to continue to do such indefinitely even when their actions cause their account to be revoked. Whether this is actually of any value I'll leave as a judgement for the reader. I know that as a MUD admin I've frequently wished a particular griefer was paying me $50 every time he recreated his account.

    4. Re:Why the retail price? by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      It also completly ignores those people that cannot download the images due to a lack of adequate bandwidth.

      No, actually, it doesn't. I mentioned direct sales by Sony and/or Lucas. I'm also pretty certain that most (not all) users of these games have broadband of some sort.

      A few months (year+ ?) ago one of the PC Game magazines had a breakdown of costs. The 'development costs' were only about 25% of a game's cost. The remainder went to wholesaler markup, dealer markup, and, the bulk, to advertising. Why does SWG need advertising? (Actually, marketing, which includes advertising) All of the online and print mags are falling all over themselves to cover this game.

      I have a hard time believing that those increased costs will be offset by any reduction in cost due to internet based distribution.

      As you've forced me to think about the topic a bit more (thanks:) I think that direct sales will lower the price. Cut out the middleman. No, it won't work for those Activision budget titles, but for something with the Star Wars moniker?

      There are plenty of people willing to pay the full retail box price and still pay the monthly fee for these games. If nothing else, why should these companies change the model if they don't feel they are losing a significant number of customers. The fact that a few people bitch about the price of the boxed copy and don't buy the game is probably not the biggest concern of the bean counters when it comes to the bottom line as that group of people is clearly in the minority.

      All of this is your conjecture, which is why I have no problem battling it with my mere conjecture. Have either of us seen the projections on lowering/eliminating the cost of the game? Have we seen the surveys asking how likely you would be to purchase this game if it cost $0/$15/$90? Nope. Even if there were large, but small as a percentage, improvements from the models, you wouldn't see a change. Why? These are corporations. Corporations aren't risk takers. Which is sad, since they are in the best position to survive a failed gamble.

      If you don't think that these companies are willing to change thier distribution methods go take a look at the box sizes of older games and then compare them to the newer smaller boxes you see on all the store shelves. It may have taken a long time for that to happen, but it is progressing rapidly at this point.

      Which points to the fact that we are stuck in a paradigm where the creators don't view end users as customers, but the retailers and wholesalers. End users didn't ask for these changes; retailers and wholesalers did. Not that there's anything wrong with making changes for these people, but it shows that game publishers are looking to please the wrong folks. However, you do hit on a point that markets change. And sooner or later, the market for MMO's will be one where you get the razor for free, and only pay for the blades.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    5. Re:Why the retail price? by sweetooth · · Score: 1

      No, actually, it doesn't. I mentioned direct sales by Sony and/or Lucas. I'm also pretty certain that most (not all) users of these games have broadband of some sort.

      A few months (year+ ?) ago one of the PC Game magazines had a breakdown of costs. The 'development costs' were only about 25% of a game's cost. The remainder went to wholesaler markup, dealer markup, and, the bulk, to advertising. Why does SWG need advertising? (Actually, marketing, which includes advertising) All of the online and print mags are falling all over themselves to cover this game.


      Ok, you have me there. You didn't completly ignore dial up users. However, you have to consider if the game distributors are set up to handle direct distribution and if not factor in the cost of setting up the new facilities. Of course this will eliminate a portion of thier traditional shipping overhead because they don't distribute to the various middlemen. After playing several MMORG type games as well as other online games I wouldn't be surprised if the numbers of dial up players was equal if not greater than broadband users. Especially for the larger player bases such as EQ. In all of the games I've played at least half of the people I played with on a regular basis were still on dial up. Mostly because they were in areas where broadband was either not available or too expensive.

      As to the marketing costs, I don't know why a game with a title as big as Galaxies needs as much advertising as it is getting. However, it isn't surprising. Game advertising is becoming just as bad as movie advertising. I don't think that advertising needs to go away completly but I certainly wouldn't mind saving a buck or two on say .. the overpriced monthly fee due to reduced advertising budgets.

      As you've forced me to think about the topic a bit more (thanks:) I think that direct sales will lower the price. Cut out the middleman. No, it won't work for those Activision budget titles, but for something with the Star Wars moniker?


      Again cutting out the middle man is only a portion. Distribution costs are shifted under your model but may actually be increased due to shipping units to individuals rather than to wholesalers etc. While cutting out the middle man would certainly reduce costs you would have to do a serious analysis of how many projected sales you would lose because people wouldn't be able to walk into Wal Mart or Best Buy and pick up your game. How many game sales are not premeditated, but are initiated after the consumer picks up the shiny box and views the pretty picures on the back. Or sees the game being played on a floor demo unit. Again, those are questions that I certainly am not in a position to answer, but it is something else that fits into the equation.

      All of this is your conjecture, which is why I have no problem battling it with my mere conjecture. Have either of us seen the projections on lowering/eliminating the cost of the game? Have we seen the surveys asking how likely you would be to purchase this game if it cost $0/$15/$90? Nope. Even if there were large, but small as a percentage, improvements from the models, you wouldn't see a change. Why? These are corporations. Corporations aren't risk takers. Which is sad, since they are in the best position to survive a failed gamble.

      I hate having to battle with conjuecture, unfortunatly I can't back up my points with statistics because those pesky corporations not only like to not take risks, but they like to keep most of thier sales information under wraps. Other than total subscribers or units sold we probably will never know exactly how much each portion of the process costs and how much could be saved by an alternative method until someone tries it.

      Which points to the fact that we are stuck in a paradigm where the creators don't view end users as customers, but the retailers and wholesalers. End users didn't ask for these changes; retailers and wholesalers did. Not that there's anything wro

    6. Re:Why the retail price? by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      On the broader subject, I'll concede that the issue is a little bit (not a great amount, but a little bit) more complex. I'll also concede that without marketing and sales data, it's hardly worth discussing a great deal more. But, I thought of another problem with free dl's: leaches. All of the sudden, EVERYONE dl's a copy of the new game, but only a small percent pay to play monthly, skewing the bandwidth costs, accounting, etc. At which point, I'd say sell, but cut the amount of profit the publisher takes. Not sure what this is, but it 'seems' like it's about $10 or so.

      Every time I thought of picking up EQ, they would release an expansion pack. Getting into the game looked like it would cost $100 or so for the first month of play. Or stick with the original stuff that a few friends say sucked (or lacked what I consider core features).

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    7. Re:Why the retail price? by sweetooth · · Score: 1

      The leach issue is why I mentioned bit torrent. You still have leaches, but it puts some of the distribution cost back on the consumers which could offset a portion of the bandwidth costs. I don't think most people would mind this being that you are paying for the bandwidth anyway and you wouldn't have to pay the cost of the shiny box. Of course they could also come up with an advertisment based download system as well so that the bandwidth was payed for by other peoples advertising dollars. Write a custom download and installer app that requires a small fee to get access to your game key and the installer executable and then it downloads from various servers while displaying banner ad type advertisments. Most people would just walk away from the computer at that point but it's worth a thought.

      Anyway, I doubt that any of the game companies are going to change thier distribution and pricing schemes any time soon. You are also absolutely correct. Without more concrete sales and marketing data this thread loses much of its value.

    8. Re:Why the retail price? by dsb · · Score: 1
      I've said this a dozen times already, but I guess I'll say it again. There are plenty of people willing to pay the full retail box price and still pay the monthly fee for these games.


      Dumbasses!!!!
      Now I must go back and monitor my stocks.

    9. Re:Why the retail price? by antin · · Score: 1

      Well in many ways you are getting a lot more value from a MMO game. Give me a list of any non-MMO games that you are still playing a month after you buy them?

      Most (if not all) MMORPGs come with a months free subscription, which buys you more time that you would enjoy from a standard game. The monthly fee then justifies (well more than covers) the required upkeep, bandwidth costs etc... if you think about it most multiplayer games require the gamers to set up their own servers and pay the related costs.

      Finally - if you don't value it, don't pay it. Considering the number of MMOs in development, and the number already on the market, it seems that there is a big enough consumer base who are prepared to pay - free market and all that stuff...

    10. Re:Why the retail price? by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 1

      Just a couple of quick notes because I don't have a whole lot to say on this whole thing, but had a couple of thoughts while reading this post:

      Again cutting out the middle man is only a portion. Distribution costs are shifted under your model but may actually be increased due to shipping units to individuals rather than to wholesalers etc.

      Many people that buy products online don't even consider the shipping costs until they're right in front of them, and by that point a large percentage of them have already dedicated themselves enough to buying the product that they only stop at excessive shipping costs. In other words, what I'm trying to say is, charge the customer for shipping if they choose that instead of downloading. It should still come in less than $50. I realize that part of what you're saying, though, is that they still have to pay for the bandwidth to allow downloads, too, but then they should already be paying for massive amounts of bandwidth to host their game in the first place.

      While cutting out the middle man would certainly reduce costs you would have to do a serious analysis of how many projected sales you would lose because people wouldn't be able to walk into Wal Mart or Best Buy and pick up your game. How many game sales are not premeditated, but are initiated after the consumer picks up the shiny box and views the pretty picures on the back. Or sees the game being played on a floor demo unit. Again, those are questions that I certainly am not in a position to answer, but it is something else that fits into the equation.

      I agree on this point, to some extent. However, I must note that I have played both UO and EQ, and not only didn't play either game for more than 2 months, but also didn't spend more than $20 on either game's initial purchase. I am glad I waited so long to buy those games so that I didn't waste $50 on them, but at the same time I often wonder if the whole MMO experience would have been better if I had gotten in on the game a bit earlier. These companies have never done any serious market analysis on how many sales they lose at $50 up front + $XX/month, either, except to determine how many subscribers they lose when XX = 15 vs. 12 vs. 9. Chances are that few, if any, of them every did serious analysis on the up-front price, because games like EQ have subscriber numbers that most of these games would kill for, anyway.

      The sad part is that once people have invested significant time (and money) into their characters and the game, they're really far less likely to give up on it, and the companies are taking advantage of this, as you mentioned, by releasing minor expansions for full-blown expansion prices, and raising monthly fees.

      --
      -PainKilleR-[CE]
    11. Re:Why the retail price? by jaritsu · · Score: 1

      Nice, maybe you need to spend your $$$ on some ritalin, or get a new hobby if your attention span for gaming is that weak.

      I paid the price for Half-life, Quake3, NWN and so on, and still play them all the time, with great fever.

      Fact: The one and only reason a company charges full price is cause they CAN, cause people will pay it. after a year the price goes down, or the original game is included in expansion packs that sell for much less. Like in AO and UO, all their expansions let you start a new account if you don't have one already, and usually sell around 20 bones. So where is the expense recovery there? Taking a back seat to the need for more subscribers, cause the game companies know that is where the real $$$ is to be had.

      The "development costs" excuse is just that, an excuse. And people buy it, literally.

    12. Re:Why the retail price? by sweetooth · · Score: 1

      You have good points, but there is one thing I think I should touch on.

      I realize that part of what you're saying, though, is that they still have to pay for the bandwidth to allow downloads, too, but then they should already be paying for massive amounts of bandwidth to host their game in the first place.

      While it takes large amounts of bandwidth to host a MMORG with a lot of clients I would be willing to bet it is significantly smaller than we all think. For the most part all the clients are sending is tons of small UDP packets. These add up, but with cutting out the overhead of TCP I would think it is less bandwidth than we are thinking. They have to have even more bandwidth to handle the download of updates. This is extra bandwidth on top of what you normally have because you will have a portion of the world population downloading updates at differant times. The majority will get them the day of the update release, so maybe the increase isn't significant, but it is still additional bandwidth. Now lets add in downloading ISO images for a game. Many of these new games are multiple CD games due to the massive size of the textures. The bandwidth required to provided downloads needs to be seperate in my opinion because it is going to be a large amount of bandwidth needed constantly. Because it will take each person downloading the game a long time to do so you can't rely on bandwidth for the game servers without damaging the playability of the game. Also, because you have connections being taken up for very long periods of time you will need more bandwidth simply to handle a large number of connections. I seriously doubt that the amount of bandwidth these companies are currently getting could also handle dedicated downloads of game isos. Of course this is why I mentioned distributed downloads such as bit torrent, or even file shack or file planet could work. Anyway, just something to think about. Is bandwidth so cheap now that the extra bandwidth wouldn't cost as much if not more? I don't know, but I know that it still looks pretty darn expensive to me.

    13. Re:Why the retail price? by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 1

      While it takes large amounts of bandwidth to host a MMORG with a lot of clients I would be willing to bet it is significantly smaller than we all think.

      Perhaps it is. I find many people that believe a given FPS game uses XXK/sec bandwidth on the client side (and the server side would normally be XX times the number of clients), but overall they are thinking it's about 3-4 times what a well-coded game will use. The sad part is that with most fps games the data is available in-game, if you know the console commands to display it.

      These add up, but with cutting out the overhead of TCP I would think it is less bandwidth than we are thinking.

      The biggest difference (between UDP and TCP) of course comes from the resending of packets, which is crucial for TCP, but not required for UDP. What most people don't realise, though, is that many games do resend packets via UDP when they're missed, although they severely limit the number of resends and are perfectly willing to drop the packet at that point.

      They have to have even more bandwidth to handle the download of updates.

      Part of which can be somewhat negated by the direct-download model if you patch the updates into the ISOs that new users download (and I have bought Game of the Year type releases for some games for this very reason). While the new users will probably be downloading slightly more than the users that downloaded before the patch was released, they will be downloading less in the long term (after the previous users have also downloaded the patch) because patches usually replace existing files to some extent.

      This is extra bandwidth on top of what you normally have because you will have a portion of the world population downloading updates at differant times. The majority will get them the day of the update release, so maybe the increase isn't significant, but it is still additional bandwidth.

      Anyone that's tried to download a Half-life patch the day it's released is probably aware of this ;)

      Now lets add in downloading ISO images for a game. Many of these new games are multiple CD games due to the massive size of the textures. The bandwidth required to provided downloads needs to be seperate in my opinion because it is going to be a large amount of bandwidth needed constantly. Because it will take each person downloading the game a long time to do so you can't rely on bandwidth for the game servers without damaging the playability of the game.

      I agree with this, as even downloading small files over a game server's connection can severely impact the performance if it's done at anything more than the average client's data rate (usually ~5 kb/sec), which is a speed at which no one would want to download significant amounts of data, unless they were used to it (ie dial-up).

      Also, because you have connections being taken up for very long periods of time you will need more bandwidth simply to handle a large number of connections. I seriously doubt that the amount of bandwidth these companies are currently getting could also handle dedicated downloads of game isos. Of course this is why I mentioned distributed downloads such as bit torrent, or even file shack or file planet could work. Anyway, just something to think about. Is bandwidth so cheap now that the extra bandwidth wouldn't cost as much if not more? I don't know, but I know that it still looks pretty darn expensive to me.

      It's not so much that bandwidth is cheap, it's that buying a LOT of bandwidth becomes cheap. The more you buy, the less it costs per kb/sec (or whatever sub-division you want to make of the bandwidth). Not only that, but talk to major ISPs who are also infrastructure providers, see what kind of deals they're willing to make. If you can show that your servers should be able to handle far beyond your projected load, they may be willing to go in on an advertising deal to reduce the price of the bandwidth or provide it at no cost (unlikel

      --
      -PainKilleR-[CE]
    14. Re:Why the retail price? by sweetooth · · Score: 1

      All good points and nothing I really disagree with. As with anything you get in "bulk" the price is useallly reduced, sometimes significantly. I certainly should have recognized that initially.

      In any case, the current model uses the initial $50 price point to pay the setup costs from the first X number of sales. The long time that it takes for that price to come down reflects the company's unwillingness to take less of a profit on a successful game, even though in the long term the majority of their profit comes from subscriptions that last 6 months or more, not from people buying the game in the first place. This, I'm sure, is why SWG's subscription doesn't come into line with EQ's rate until you go out to 12 months, and iirc EQ has a lower rate at that level as well.

      I think this is more than just an unwillingness to take lower profits from a successful title. I think that Sony/Verant appears to believe that they can gain greater profit based on the titles history, influence, and desireability. Either that or Lucas is charging an arm and a leg for the rights to create, produce, and run the game. I am interested in playing Galaxies but I'm not interested in paying for a year in advance and I'm not really interested in paying $15 per month for a game. I certainly don't see any compelling reason for this game to be priced like it is.

  31. Re:Don't buy! not for the first few months anyways by Archfeld · · Score: 1

    I have watched hours of several beta testers and I have to agree. There is some potential there but it will not be ready by release. I also want to say, the Jedi stuff BLOWS...perma death for playing a Jedi ??!?! While the skill trees seems deep the exp system is rather sad, personally I won't be joining, I'll just wait for EQ2, but I also know that just the NAME star wars ensures at least initial profitability, though give the mediocre quality of the last movie releases, the Star Wars franchise is getting watered down.

    --
    errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
  32. Star Trek Galaxies by Iscariot_ · · Score: 1

    I'm more excited about Star Trek Galaxies.

  33. Re:Does anyone realize just how AWFUL this will be by GodHead · · Score: 1

    Another beta tester here. The SWG team is very different than the EQ team. The monthly fee is only $2 more than current EQ prices. And there won't be many fanboys either.

    They'll avoid this game for the same reasons everyone else will - because the fights are boring, the other gameplay tedious, and there's no way to be a jedi.

    --
    Just wait till some crappy band steals your nic.
  34. Re:Does anyone realize just how AWFUL this will be by Neck_of_the_Woods · · Score: 1

    I don't know if you noticed, but most of the worker driods on this game are UO vets. Not that this will make is a winner, but I at least give it some sort of a chance.

    You have a group of people that have 2 huge games under their collective belt. Now if it was a new game developer I would assume they would make a lot of the same mistakes, being this is the 3rd time around for most of them I expect to see some changes.

    I like the idea of droids, and NPC doing the tedious stuff. I like the idea of a perma death jedi. I even like the idea of a non-combat way of living in a VR world. Now all these might not be what I want to do, but it adds spice.

    I think this one will be a fun game to play if nothing else to be able to wonder around and shoot a blaster or swing a light sabre around and scream "THE FORCE IS IN MY SHORTS!".

    Come on have some fun with it, just a game don't get so serious.

    --
    Neck_of_the_Woods
    #/usr/local/surf/glassy/overhead
  35. Re:Don't buy! not for the first few months anyways by analog_line · · Score: 1

    I'm not in the beta, but a close friend is, and I've watched him play Releasing it this soon, there is no way in hell that I, and likely he, will buy this game. It's buggy and laggy well beyond what either of us are willing to accept.

    That, and if you thought EQ required you to sell your soul to the game for success, Galaxies will be even worse. I already spend far too much time playing games. Unless I withdraw completely from the world at large and work a shit job in a pizza place and live in a shit apartment, I'll never have the time to play Galaxies alone, never mind the other stuff I do. The power gamers will power game, there's nothing Verant, or any other company can do to stop them. The eBayers will have tons of never coming back materials loot to sell for an insane amount of cash once they hoard it for awhile. It's the worst MMORPG nightmare ever. Everything bad about them elsewhere can only be worse here.

  36. Is that the best you can do? by R0 · · Score: 1

    Stallman is interested in freedom not price.

  37. Hey Beta Testers... by Mupp252 · · Score: 1

    It's been my experience that when deciding to pick up a MMORPG and play it it's usually a good idea to wait a few months so that some of the major launch bugs and standard gameplay can be ironed out. Do any of the beta testers commenting in this forum believe this would be a good idea or should I run out and buy a copy the day it comes out?

    I've rushed out to play both The Sims Online and Anarchy Online upon launch and was horribly dissapointed/disgusted at the outcome. The only impulse behind buying the game on launch date is most likely the same reason behind everyones purchase of it... "Because it's Star Wars!"

    1. Re:Hey Beta Testers... by unDiWahn · · Score: 1

      Don't rush out and buy it. You'll regret paying for the 4/5 months that you can't/don't want to play it.

    2. Re:Hey Beta Testers... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i was in beta3...its crap.

  38. The dork side by macdaddy357 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Don't cross over to the dork side. Do not play this game. Once you start down the dork path, forever will it dominate your destiny. Consume you it will! You will live in your mother's basement. You will never meet a real girl. Handling your own light saber while looking at prOn will be your only taste of love. Beware the dork side!

    --
    How ya like dat?
    1. Re:The dork side by webmaker · · Score: 1

      sounds like you know from experience...

  39. How they decided the subscription rates... by Satan's+Bumgut · · Score: 1

    Sony Excutive: Hey Bill, hows that Star Wars Galaxies game coming along?

    LucasArts Guy: Well Jim, its a little behind schedule but we think the kids will still play it. In fact, we have over 100,000 pre-orders for it and we just announced we're charging 15.00 a month for a subscription.

    Sony Executive: You mean people still want to play the game after the 15.00 price announcement?

    LucasArts Guy: Yeah, people will pay anything to be a pathetic loser posing as a Jedi in a video game.

    Sony Executive: True, but think of all the chicks they'll get.

    (in unison): Hahahahahahahaha!

  40. oooh, same day as... by nunofgs · · Score: 1

    ... my national 12th grade math exam. Should make for a great present to ask my parents if I pass :)

    1. Re:oooh, same day as... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ever think you might be sharing too much useless information?

    2. Re:oooh, same day as... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I heard that they'll be restricting the number of copies initially available to soften the impact on the game servers. Good luck getting a copy.

  41. dumb name by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Star Wars Galaxies - Release Date

    That's a really lame title for a game.

    Almost as bad as "Doom II Now Available" from a while back.

  42. A soon as there is no tredmill by Shihar · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'll play the first game with no leveling tred mill. I have a life, pure and simple. I can't afford to keep up. I might be able to fit a marathon 6 hour run during the weekends, but when it comes to the weekdays 1 hour is being optimistic. Simply put, I can't keep up with a 16 year old kid with no job, no girlfriend, and nothing better to do who can play over 40 hours a week. So I have simply stopped trying. As soon as a MMORPG comes out that appeals to me even though I will never be able to pump 40 hours a week into it, I'll buy it. Until that day, screw MMORPGs. I want a game to play in my spare time, not a game that replaces my social life.

    1. Re:A soon as there is no tredmill by fusion94 · · Score: 1

      try EVE Online...there's really no leveling per se as found in most traditional MMORPGs. it's all skill based and you can train skills offline.

      -t

  43. Re:Don't buy! not for the first few months anyways by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Believe him. The system for buying and selling items was completely non functional until last week.

    Unless you team up with people and literally have weeks of time to spare, you'll never, ever reach the levels where you can do cool things like build stores and stuff.

    The problem with these alternative reality games is that they are simulating reality. I work all day, why pay for the privelge to go home and "work" for entertainment?

  44. Planeside. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Try Planetside instead. There's lots of satisfyingly good action to be had there, without the stupid XP quest and item-hunt garbage that was EQ (and will be Galaxies).

    1. Re:Planeside. by JavaLord · · Score: 1

      I would have actually tried planetside, I like the concept behind it. The only problem is that there is no way to WIN at planet side. I like the idea of a huge FPS, but a FPS without a way to win is pointless. What I'd really like is a RPG-FPS where I could do RPG stuff like run around a huge universe and buy items but combat is handled like a FPS. They should have used the combat engine for Jedi Outcast 2 for Galaxies. Or a RPG where I'm actually free to try to kill whoever I want if I decided I don't like them (or vice versa). I've heard of neocron, but every says it blows :/

    2. Re:Planeside. by pelsmith · · Score: 1

      I am just now getting the hang of Planetside, and I am hoping there are some comparisons between it and SWG.

      In planetside, you can spend days figuring out "who you want to be". I tried driving tanks, and hated it. I tried getting MAX armor, and hated it. I tried being a GAL pilot, and hated it.

      In the end, I found out what character I wanted to be - a sniper who flies a mosquito. Now that I am in my groove, I am happy.

      I hope SWG works out the same for me (it sounds like it will). Right now, I think it would be fun to be a doctor. Maybe I will discover I like the combat system and become a rifleman instead. Maybe I will like being a farmer.

      The point is: In Planetside (and hopefully SWG) there is no huge race to be uber. You just discover what you enjoy, and then automatically begin to roleplay that character - because you think it is cool.

      Pell

  45. bacca! bacca! bacca! by kfractal · · Score: 1

    who's on bacca?
    hey what are you gonna do with that bacca?
    man that's the shizbacca!

    lather, rinse, rebacca.

  46. Re:Does anyone realize just how AWFUL this will be by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Informal suveys on the official boards have been about
    91% not ready for release
    9% ready

    Thier is a reason they will have less then 1 week between when the NDA is removed and the game is released.

  47. Re:oh, boy! One whole month free? by YomikoReadman · · Score: 1

    ill believe it.. from what ive heard from friends about planetside, it is getting better.

    --
    I have no regrets, this is the only path.
    My whole life has been "UNLIMITED BLADE WORKS"
  48. Re:Don't buy! not for the first few months anyways by will_die · · Score: 1

    If crafting is your thing, give 'A tale in the desert' a try.
    Far better crafting, and social based activities.

  49. Re:Does anyone realize just how AWFUL this will be by SoVeryWrong · · Score: 1

    But we all know that means about jack shit.
    Upset people post, happy people continue playing the game.

    Angry people are much louder than happy people.

  50. Only Two Questions by cyranoVR · · Score: 1

    1) Is Jar-Jar's race in this game?
    2) Is xenocide allowed?

    If so, $50 + $14.95/mo is a bargain!

    I can see it now: Gungan_Killah

    1. Re:Only Two Questions by PainKilleR-CE · · Score: 1

      1) Is Jar-Jar's race in this game?
      2) Is xenocide allowed?

      If so, $50 + $14.95/mo is a bargain!


      Alternatively:
      if (1 && 2 == true){bargain;}
      if (1 == true && 2 == false) { $14.95 + $0/month > bargain;}
      if (1 == false && 2 == true) {WeShallSee();}

      and yes, I know there's a more efficient way to code that ;p

      --
      -PainKilleR-[CE]
    2. Re:Only Two Questions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, you can kill Gungans. :) It's worth it just for that.

  51. I'll beleive it when I see it on the shelves. by Dolemite_the_Wiz · · Score: 1

    This is the Ump-teenth time the release date for this game has been changed because of consistent problems during the Beta test pierods (there were three I beleive).

    Lucas can only 'Cry Wolf' with the release date so many times before people will not get excited about this game.

    I don't know about everyone else but I'll just wait until the game is actually on the store shelves THEN I'll get jazzed about this game.

    Dolemite
    ______________________

    --
    Save the World! Use a Quote!
    1. Re:I'll beleive it when I see it on the shelves. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uhmm.. The release date has changed just one time.

      It was supposed to be April 15th.

    2. Re:I'll beleive it when I see it on the shelves. by Dolemite_the_Wiz · · Score: 1

      Ummmm the release date has changed AT LEAST 10 times.

      Dolemite
      _________________

      --
      Save the World! Use a Quote!
    3. Re:I'll beleive it when I see it on the shelves. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it only changed once. First it was April 15th. Then they delayed it and said it would be about 2 months. So June 26th release is pretty good.

      I'm sure you heard from your "friends" and read on those leet messege boards a new release date every week Dolemite.

      So no, it hasn't changed "AT LEAST 10 times". Try not to be a moron next time.

    4. Re:I'll beleive it when I see it on the shelves. by Dolemite_the_Wiz · · Score: 1

      Yes it has. Go to a Store Like EB and ask them how many release dates they received.

      Research your facts and I won't make you look like a complete idiot.

      Dolemite
      ______________________

      --
      Save the World! Use a Quote!
  52. Re:Don't buy! not for the first few months anyways by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you cant camp mobs in SWG...they spawn randomly.

  53. Why Expansions? by Sulihin · · Score: 1
    The second gripe is the release of expansion packs. Why do I have to go out and buy an expansion pack for the game I'm already paying a significant monthly fee for. Also, considering that most of the expansion packs I've purchased haven't been worth more than one or two monthly updates, why are they almost as much as the original retail release. This in my opinion is a better example of squeezing the consumer for every penny they have.

    The one advantage expansion packs have from a marketing/publisher standpoint is that a new expansion pack is a new product on the shelves, attracting new customers. Sure, all the existing customer base would prefer to just get the monthly update, but as anecdotal evidence compare AC's lifecycle to EQ's. Many people felt AC had a better game (which is another topic entirely) but because they took forever to release an on-the-shelves expansion they didn't garner the drop in/impulse buy sales that EQ with its new expansion ever 6-9 months gains. I think the import of this style of marketing, as was mentioned elsewhere in the thread, is underrated. Of course I also agree that SWG isn't a typical beastie when it comes to marketing.

    1. Re:Why Expansions? by sweetooth · · Score: 1

      This may or may not be true. As was hashed out in another part of the thread we are all just making our points with conjecture. Without hard sales data we can't really know how well expansion packs work at bringing in new customers. I do know that many of the people I played AC with left when the expansion came out because they didn't want to spend another $30 on an expansion that didn't appear to offer much. These people mostly had more than one account and also didn't want to buy the expansion multiple times. The other problem with that particular expansion is that it tended to be unbalanced and concentrate most of the players in one area. This of course caused unbearable lag due to the server load. Of course I don't know how the EQ expansions helped or hindered the game because I played the game for about 6 weeks before cancelling my account. Maybe thier constant releases increased the number of newer players enough to make it worth it for Sony/Verant. However, did they lose any clients due to the high price of the expansion? Again, there is no way to know without hard sales data, and after googling for some I couldn't find any.

    2. Re:Why Expansions? by Sulihin · · Score: 1
      I found this: An Analysis of MMOG Subscription Growth

      There's a section in the analysis on expansions, where he comes to the conclusion that expansions aren't a significant impact on subscriber growth, although he also notes at many points that a particular MMOG experiences growth of small or significant value in the subscriber base due to the release of an expansion. I'd be interested in seeing more analysis on this really.

      To continue with conjecture, I somewhat feel that the release of expansions is beneficial from a marketing standpoint, but they would likely benefit even more if as Bruce Woodcock said they contain "substantial new features" and also if there was some benefit to existing customers and no large buy-in penalty to new customers (though at least with EQ you can generally buy the entire series for only a slightly inflated price, I saw the Gold Box when Planes of Power was released for $60. Of course I said 'Hmm $60 * 5 accounts for a game I don't really play anymore. I guess not.)

    3. Re:Why Expansions? by sweetooth · · Score: 1

      Interesting chart, I hadn't seen that before.

      I can see why expansions are beneficial for marketing as it gets a shiny new box in front of people that may not have played. I can see it as even a source of additional revenue to fund further development as the expansions seem to be priced similarily to original retail releases. I would even be willing to pay for expansions more often if they contained "substantial new features" as you pointed out. The problem is that when you are already getting updates on a monthly basis and are told that your monthly fee goes in part to the development of those monthly features, and expansion has to be much better than those monthly updates. Up to this point, in my opinion only of course, these expansions have failed on this particular point.

  54. Re:Does anyone realize just how AWFUL this will be by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're a dumbass. Read the site. You can be a jedi...

  55. Re:Does anyone realize just how AWFUL this will be by tx_mgm · · Score: 2, Informative

    Read the site. You can be a jedi

    read the constitution. You can be president.

    --
    Gentlemen...BEHOLD!
    -Dr. Weird
  56. my 2 cents by resignator · · Score: 1

    At first, the game was really geared towards a casual gamer . Monday they patched and did a char wipe that fucked everything. No other patches are scheduled before release. Mondays patch introduced more bugs than they had pre-patch and killed all the fun in gameplay. Now there is no place for someone who wants to play 2 hours a day. It is all about the grind. The testers are seriously upset about this latest patch. EQ in space is all i can say. Look to play 6 months for 6 hours a day to become a master in any skill and thats just one skill tree (compared to a week before). Most people are posting and questioning the reasons behind the patch and concluding there isnt a high end game hence they are turning it to a grind to keep subscribers longer. There is also a reason the NDA has not been lifted (typically game companies lift it a month before release) .....they dont want us beta testers spreading the bad word. You shouldve seen the beta boards post patch...14 pages(about 2000 actual posts) in 1 hour. All the beta people are cancelling thier pre-orders (me too). Everyone is flaming the boards. No one is playing the game and the servers are empty. This game is no where near ready to be released and EVERYONE (in beta) knows this. Vehicles, Jedi, and some planets are a few things that wont even be in the release. they plan to patch them in the weeks to months to follow. what sickens me most is the fact they are actually gonna charge people come the 26th to beta this game. Look for some serious hacks right away :P i know quite a few that involve blocking ports that are still quite usable in game. You can even steal from the bazaar terminals if you induce enough client side lag and know the right tricks. mabey we will see another incident like the Shadowbane hack. i beta tested that as well and refused to buy the unfinished product they released. i think this one is gonna bite lucas and SOE in the ass and i am very seriously disappointed this game could have ruled.

    --
    "At first, we thought it was just another snake cult."
  57. Re:Don't buy! not for the first few months anyways by drgreedy · · Score: 1

    This guy apparently broke his NDA and posted a pretty hard and comprehensive critique of the game that's getting nods from lots of other testers.

  58. SWG by ferr0x · · Score: 1

    This June 26th release is a horrible idea. I have been beta testing SWG for over 2 months, the moment they gave the release date for the game I deleted the SWG folder from my hard drive.. realizing that I can no longer say 'this is just beta, this stuff will be fixed sooner or later,' but that this is actually the final game.. this is what people will be paying $50+ for.. I cannot just say that the game is buggy, I can say that it is, for the most part, completely unplayable. Over the past 2-3 patches, it seems for every one bug they squash, 2-3 new ones are born.. I am not even kidding about that. I cannot suggest to anyone to get this game until about November/December.. The crafter: They haven't balanced any of these classes at all, in my opinion.. you can become a Master Architect (one of the highest professions in the game) in a matter of hours.. is this how MMORPGs are supposed to work? With this latest patch they've broken the Armorsmith profession almost completely.. giving no tim to test the new implementations they'd forced on it.. There's so much more beyond balance that is far more important, but the NDA is still under effect. The combat professions: Brawler, Scout, Marksman. I'll start out by saying that this game has the most boring combat in any game I've ever played.. I'll also say that there is nothing STAR WARSY about it. In many cases of PVP (trust me, you won't even care about PVP after trying it out in the game..) it's whoever gets the first shot off. In terms of cross-combat such as Brawler/Marksman, it is whoever is in their ideal range when combat is initiated. As for scout, this is an entirely broken profession, this profession equires 3 types of experience.. one from setting up camps, one from using traps, and another from (mostly) harvesting resources from creatures you have killed. Now the latter part of that takes up half of the trees in the profession.. meaning there's a lot of killing to be done.. but with a newbie gun/knife? Something to know, as a marksman you are given weapon certifications as you make your way up through each tree (whether it's pistol, carbine, or rifle.) Therefore in order to have better than newbie weaponry you'll have to pick up either brawler or marksman and begin running through these professions in order to be a viable killer. Entertainer: So you want to be a Master Entertainer? How about a Master in the elite entertainer professions such as Dancer or Performer? Go to a cantina.. type /dance. Go to work, go outside, go to the movies. Now there have been rumors of gating the AFK Ents and I'm sure at some point they will do this.. so with the next part I'll show you how to get past this gate.. The Lowly Artisan (crafter): So this is a big deal, digging up resources. Why? You need resources to craft things. One tree of the Artisan consists of Survey I-IV.. normally this can take 3-4 days to get through.. Survey is another word for digging up resources. But you don't feel like spending 3-4 days with your lowly artisan building him up the normal way? One word: MACRO. This can also un-gate any Entertainer gating rumors. Here's the plan, go into your SWG directory, create a text file.. call it samp.txt Open this, type "samp: /sample; pause 360; /stand; /pause 5; /sit; /pause 100; /stand; /pause 5; /samp;" without the quotes of course. What does this do? ok.. /sample is the manual term for DIG THIS RESOURCE.. so you do that for 360 seconds (until the average artisan's Action Points runs out) then you sit for 100 seconds (the amount of time needed to regenerate them.) Having /samp; at the end makes this a loop.. Bounty Hunter: With the latest patch they've introduced 90% of the BHs abilities/weapons. Who in their right mind believes that 9 days is enough time to fully test/debug an entire class? Smuggler falls into the same category.. due to BUGS in the patch before this "f