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Linus Torvalds about SCO, IP, MS and Transmeta
strmcrw writes " San Jose Mercury News has an interview with Linus. He talks about about SCO vs IBM and gives his opinion on Microsoft. He also shed light on his decision to leave chip maker Transmeta for a Linux corporate software consortium, the Open Source Development Lab."
But some troll probably has a copyright on that kind of messages...
"Blessed are the poor in threshold: for theirs is the Kingdom of the Page-Lengthening and Page-Widening Posts.
"Blessed are they that mourn the death of *BSD: for they shall be comforted with an ultradense Linux server from VA Linux, now sold by California Digital Corporation.
"Blessed are the posters of smug one-liners: for they shall inherit an Account Capped at 50.
"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after The First Post: for they shall have the Third or Fourth Post.
"Blessed are the karma whores: for they shall obtain "Score: 5, Insightful".
"Blessed are those who dismiss out-of-hand: for they shall fail to see the Point of the Original Post.
"Blessed are those who seek to associate themselves with the latest techno-fad: for they shall be called 3L33T for at least Another Half Hour.
"Blessed are they which are persecuted for their own self-righteousness' sake: for theirs is the Kingdom of "Ask Slashdot".
"Blessed are the over-eager, who believe that Open Source is a social movement heralding the rise of a new generation: for they shall not realize that There Are No Sacred Cows.
"Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for the sake of your Favorite Operating System.
"Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in Heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
THIS IS THE WORD OF THE LORD
Why should I care what some occasional contributor to the kernel source thinks about this. Granted I'm sure he has some insights, but there are more important people whose opinion's I'd rather hear.
C - A language that combines the speed of assembly with the ease of use of assembly.
From article:
" Do you steal a car in the bright daylight with a lot of people around? Or do you steal a car, go for a joyride at 4 am in the morning when there aren't a lot of people around."
I have visions of that scene from Groundhog day, except instead of Bill Murray and a groundhog driving it's Linus and a penguin...
graspee
SCO...copyright issues...
Can't think of a way to explain it more clearly, so they'll either get it, or mod me down with you. At least you should know that *I* laughed.
Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.
I thought that he was mostly famous for saying 'whatever' and then just doing things his own way?
Perhaps they are confusing him with RMS.
Beep beep.
It's interesting how the interviewers always seem to go into the same thread of what makes Linux great. Given the history one would never have expected it to do as well as it has; like chopsticks, which were actually invented by immigrant restaurant owners in America's mining communities in the 1800s, Linux has picked up a myth of its own that actually covers the more interesting fact that it was simply a hobby with momentum. It's a bit wierd to think that such a thing has evolved to contend with and possibly displace software actually engineered for the enterprise.
Can't wait for 2.6.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
-- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.
But not as bad as the nitpicks, who don't realize that "an" is not a typo.
1. Not before hell freezes over it wont..
2. ?!
3. Hard to use if you are a complete idiot maybe..
4. Over a year and a half uptime on a HEAVILY used P100 system proves stability for me..
5. But then it isn't costing you...
6. I'll give you that one.
7. I still use 'CMD' in Windows, as much as I use the shell in Linux.
8. Windows doesn't run Linux programs. Point?
9. Dell sell systems with it preloaded...
10. Some Linux companies are doing great.. Red Hat for example.
11. Possibly yes...
12. Its free... so, I don't think so.
13. Lots of choice.
14. Who gives a rats ass.
15. Again, thats a GoodThing(tm)
16. Again.. if Microsoft set a glowing example then Linux would be put to shame. But they dont.
17. Whereas Microsoft just write buggy code anyway, so...
18. Tried it, didn't like it..
19. Bothered.
20. You suck!
I enjoyed that IBM started porting Linux to the S390, found that hugely amusing. I thought, OK, somebody has done a few too many drugs.
Alright that made me laugh out loud. And confirmed the fact to the wife that I'm a geek because it did.
Damn you Torvalds...
Now when do we see a Transmeta chip that can run both Unix and Windows programs? Seems to me like a waste of the RISC architecture of Transmeta if it only runs Windows/Linux.
penguins can't drive... and neither can linus...
Linus Torvalds is the creator of the Linux operating system, the open source version of Unix that is sweeping through the software world in a direct challenge to Microsoft.
[Emphasis mine]
From Rob's own http://cmdrtaco.net/
What? You haven't heard of Linux? It's an operating system created by Linus Torvalds, and a band of hacks scattered accross the globe.
[Emphasis mine]
Sorry GNU/FSF/RMS. You're like Rodney Dangerfield; you never get respect...
Darl C McBride
1799 Vintage Oak Ln
Salt Lake City, UT 84121-6539
(801)424-2006
Chris Sontag
32 Lone Holw
Sandy, UT 84092-5505
(801)576-0285
- He sounds a bit stressed out. Maybe it's the new job + trying to get 2.6 out the door + SCO and possible depositions + the usual stuff he has to deal with. Or I'm imagining things.
- It's funny how many evolution/ecosystem type metaphors he made - maybe he's been reading the complete works of S. J. Gould or something
> San Jose Mercury News has an interview with
> Linus
Alright, always wanted to know what happened to that round headed kid and his delusional dog! Why didn't Schroeder ever make it as a concert pianist - was it drugs, or did the parental pressure finally get to him? And that little red headed girl - is she working in the "male entertainment" industry somewhere?
And don't get me started on that bossy Lucy...
Ahrrgh, analogies....
Why o why does everybody and their grandma have to resort to analogies, btw should it be a bicycle or lyxury car(Linus said car...)? Suppose that is depending of what got stolen by whom(ref to SCO analogy).
I don't suppose the questionaire guy likes linux or dislikes microsoft by any chance? "do you think this controlled chaos works against a company like Microsoft?" "That's what Bill Gates is." [A shark] "If you look at how Microsoft is now struggling to deal with Linux, what do you think?" "You want to concentrate on going after one monopoly at a time?" "Do you feel like a religious leader? Or what kind of leader do you see yourself as?" "Any irony that you might be deposed by (SCO counsel) David Boies, who led the case against Micosoft?" [Thanks to slashdot for telling me all about what irony is and isn't.]
If you thought that pathetic excuse of a "joke" was worth laughing at, then, well, feh, I don't know what to say. "Try to get out a bit more" is the best I can do. Hope this helps.
Is it me or is Linus kinda BORING? I really wish he would rant and rave a little more, like RMS, that kinda thing really gets the blood moving you know?
The whole "aww shucks, whatever works" angle is putting me to sleep.
C'mon Linus, change the license on the kernel to the MS EULA and rename it LT/Linux and let's get this party started!
Linus summed it up beautifully.
Linux keeps evolving, and diversifying, SCO is ultimately irrelevant. Heres a follow up from IDG http://www.idg.se/ArticlePages/idgnet.asp?id=4636
The one good thing that might come out of this, is there finally enough anger to get some changes in our idiotic patent and copyright systems.
"Given the history one would never have expected it to do as well as it has; like chopsticks, which were actually invented by immigrant restaurant owners in America's mining communities in the 1800s..."
I feel sure that chopstcks were used long before the 1800's
T&K.
Political language
I agree with Linus that Linux will be damaged if the case is not resolved soon. It already has with assholes like McBride suing everyone who mentions the word Linux.
http://saveie6.com/
And confirmed the fact to the wife that I'm a geek
;)
Wife, heh. Next you'll be telling us you've had sex with said wife and have kids.
The coolest voice ever.
Oops, a thousand apologies. I didn't realize that you were logged in as "TrekkieGod". Now it all makes sense.
Set phazers to "nerd 10,000".
Direct quote from the article:
"I think they are struggling to deal with Linux partly because Linux is undermining them the same way they undercut their competition."
I guess the old goose-gander thing should apply.
"Q: You moved from Finland. How do you like living in Silicon Valley.
A: Some parts I love. I have a convertible. I will never ever move to a place where I can't drive a convertible."
Amen brother...
I don't know anything about the Nobel Peace Prize, but it seems like a good award the world community could bestow upon Mr Torvalds for gracing us with his forsight.
Why read the article when I can just make up a snap judgement?
I've got a Transmeta-based tablet Pc here running Linux...
Current Transmeta CPUs run an emulated x86 instruction set, so you can run your favourite distro as long as it supports the surrounding hardware...
This sig left unintentionally blank.
Just to clarify: The "an" in the title at the Merc is intentional -- the writer is trying to make a cute play on words. In journalist slang, a person who provides information is a "source" and a source of information that is freely accessible is "open". To the news writer, then, Linus Torvalds is an "open source" about Open Source software.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand English. Its grammar and syntax is not that much more complex than the grammar and syntax of some computer languages, but in most cases it does allow for a great deal more flexiblity in phrasing.
"Anything is better than IE, and you can quote me on that." -- Wil Wheaton.
They stole my car from a crowded, busy parking lot in the middle of business from a well guarded mall.
The origin was all written by me. For the first six months or so I was the only person working on Linux. It took almost a year before there was a major contribution from people outside. It's all original code since day one.
Better hope RMS isn't reading this article, or he'll be PISSED.
"Quoting famous computer scientists out of context is the root of all evil (or at least most of it) in programming." - K
Looking at the questions in mind, it's fairly obvious that they were set up - ie. that the journalist in question was asking for specific answers (ie. had done his homework properly), but Linus was far too prepared to answer briefly, obviously giving the journalist a reply he'd understand, but not making for good reading.
My wife - who has a fairly good understanding of how open projects work (and has coded both programming languages and html), but is by no means a linux geek - only just understood what Linus was saying, and she's both fairly knowledgable and extremely insightful.
This paragraph, for instance, has so many dependancies (:p) - it requires the user to understand coding, *open source* coding, and have a fairly good understanding of the ethos of.. well, several things. Most readers will *not* be reading with these understandings - if anything, they'll read in *order* to glean these kinds of understandings of something they'll only barely have heard of.
I don't think it's entirely because Linus doesn't speak english natively, either, to fend off potential criticism: I speak three languages, and I know *plenty* of efl (english as a foreign language) speakers who speak english which isn't as good as Linus's (which is excellent) who can explain technical issues with more clarity
In summary.. this is yet another of the problems facing popular adoption of a niche's product. ;)
I am a viral sig. Please copy me and help me spread. Thank you
Look: About 4 other people have already pointed the "great chopsticks anomaly" out before me - the vagiaries of my browser refresh made it look like I had a clear run. Also, as one poster has pointed out, the OP probably meant the chow mein was a sino-western development in the 1800's, which is not at all contorversial.
At the moment, I'm "+5 Interesting", which is just wrong (in a moral sense).
T&K.
Political language
This could all just go away if SCO said, "We think lines xx - xxx of the Linux kernel violate our contracts/licenses/copyrights." Then it would be easy. The Linux community looks at the code and traces it back to who put it there. The problem is solved (as far as Linux goes) once the code is removed and SCO has their "violator" if there even is one.
As I've said before. SCO isn't in this to do the right thing. SCO wants money and power.
If any patents could be issued on any part of Minix (not possible anymore, I believe, because it has already been published), then this would mean bad times for Linux under the proposed new EU patent legislation.
The Hacker's Guide To The Kernel: Don't panic()!
The Nobel Prize in kickboxing!
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
No, not sunscreen :) Is Linus Torvalds a Single Point of Failure?
:)
This may be a repeat question (because I intermittently keep up with the Linus issues). However, I considered what would happen if Linus was to... dare I say it... have an accident. I'm not accusing any large software companies of planning anything - for all I know it could be a bus, or a shark.
However, what could be the likely consequences? Would the Linux community become fragmented and collapse? Does Linus have a nominated replacement?
You could ask yourself the same question if Bill Gates disappeared. I'm thinking about the impact of leaders in the past such as Ghengis Khan or Alexander the Great.
Just some ramblings
AC
> I will never ever move to a place where I can't drive a convertible.
Interesting. The country I most closely associate with convertibles is . . . the United Kingdom, which is not known for warm weather. If the weather is too warm, you have to keep the top up so the AC will work; if it's too cold, you keep the top up because of wind chill.
FWIW, I live in Oregon, more than a little to the north of where Linus lives (& very close to the UK in terms of climate). And where -- according to the grapevine -- he has clearly stated he will never live. Although I have driven in a convertible with the top down every month of the year.
Geoff
I think I see a trend here. Maybe for them it really would be easier to muzzle the entire internet than to produce p
Why o why does everybody and their grandma have to resort to analogies,
Well, that's a interesting question.
You see, analogies are like the string that binds together the langu-
Or have I been trolled?
About Silicion Valley, Linus says: Genetically maybe not very homogenous
What exactly does that mean?
Uh I think you need to read a bit more. If you were to search you'd find out that recently (as in the past 20 years) the Pope stated that Darwin was right. I say recent because the catholic religion has existed for 2,000 years and 10 years barely dents past time thinking the earth is only 6,000 years old or there abouts.
Actually, the idea that the earth has only existed for 6,000 years comes from Hebrew tradition, following the calendar from Eden up to the common era. You'll find that Y2K actually is AM 5760 according to Jewish tradition, where AM is Anno Mundi, Latin for "Year of the World". AM was derived from a number of rabbis around the Middle Ages; nowadays, many Jews choose to follow the Gregorian calendar, though they refer to history in terms of "Before Common Era" and "Common Era" rather than "Before Christ" and "Year of Our Lord".
'Cause simpsons is teh r0x0r and star trek gobbles my c0x0r.
In those days, Richard Stallman appeared in the wilderness, proclaiming, "Repent, for the kingdom of free software has come near." This is the one of whom the prophet spoke when he said, "The voice of one crying out in the wilderness: prepare the way of Linus, make his paths straight". Now Stallman wore clothing consisting of worn-out jeans and a T-shirt with a leather belt around his waist, and his food was pizza and Jolt. Then the people of Berkeley and all of Silicon Valley were going out to him, and all of the region along the Bay, and they were baptized by him in the swimming pool, confessing their sins.
But when he saw many Microsofties and Appleites coming for baptism, he said to them, "You spawn of Satan! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bear fruit worthy of repentence. Do not presume to say to yourselves, "We have Altair as our ancestor"; for I tell you, The Computer God is able from these circuit boards to raise up children to Altair. Even now the ax is lying at the root of the btrees; every btree that does not bear fruit is cut down and thrown into a fire."
"I baptize you with water for repentence, but one who is more powerful than I is coming after me; I am not worthy to carry his sneakers. He will baptize you with The Kernel and an email. His code fork is in his hand, and he will clear the threshing floor and gather the software into distros; but the vaporware he will burn with unquenchable fire."
Always look on the briight side of life! (whistle, whistle)
The interview clearly shows that the issue between SCO and IBM has nothing to do with Linux in general.
The trivial bits of code which SCO probably added themselves during the Caldera era does not currently affect Linux or it's distributions.
If SCO miraculously wins an injunction against distributions with the copyrighted code, it will be easily rectified.
Furthermore, if it is proven that Caldera actually introduced the disputed code, which can be verified by looking at past distributions, they should have their pants sued of them.
I think GNU did themselves a disservice back in the late 80s/early 90s by not getting HURD written sooner.
If that had happened then they could have named it whatever RMS wanted. Instead Linus cobbled together Linux, GPL'd the source, and pretty much stole the show as far as naming the operating system.
Yet, much of the success of GNU is the freedom to distribute it WITHOUT permission of RMS (just as long as you provide the source code...). Of course, you can do this with non-GPL code too (*BSD, perl, python) but RMS hacked the copyright system first.
So the real success story is that GNU's bash can be used with Linux, Windows (under Cygnus), or with Mac OS X. RMS might have lost the battle (over GNU/Linux), but he certainly won the war (bash is just one successful example).
My father is a blogger.
I like the comment about visibility, it's true. Software developers commonly take their software from job to job. Who is going to notice if you plug in a wad of code that you wrote and brought from your previous company. After all you wrote it once, you can write it again. Since no one ever sees the source, this sort of thing happens all the time. Linux is different, it's developed in the open inside a glass house. If a developer dumps in code that they stole from work, some one might notice, and it will be fairly easy to track who did it. I'll bet that most major software companies couldn't stand that sort of scrutiny.
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
Notepad is Windows and Windows is Notepad.
Notepad/Windows XP (at least that's what I call it).
THAT'S NOT THE REAL ALEX
Could this be modded up? I think this is the perfect forum for dick-talk. Now that we've established who's got the prettiest, can we finally talk size here?
I think, therefore I am...I think.
amen, brother! preach on!
Naturally, you are not Linus, but whoever you are you sure know what you're talking about.
I am so sick of hearing about SCO.
They HAVE filed a lawsuit, yes?
When will there be an actual legal development, meaning what is the next noteworthy date in the legal proceedings of this case? (Hearing, trial, etc.)
He means Silicon Valley is densely populated by WHITEY.
Wow, how nice of them to retroactively extend time.
+1 insightful.
That's all. It's a question that I've never thought of, and I'd like to see the answer. How old is Linus, BTW?
Political language
And it's pretty obvious that they never RTFAs either.
There occassionally ARE good reasons to read slashdot! :-D
Python had much of the same problem. Guido van Rossum is so much the center of the Python universe that he and his core developers spent a bit of effort getting the "truck number" above a certain point.
But I don't think it's a problem with Linux. See there's nothing preventing anyone from forking Linux and making a version without Linus' input. It's just that most people support his decisions because it's his project and he's involved.
If he gets hit by a truck, it will certainly shake up core Linux development, but either (a) someone will emerge as a unifying leader or (b) Linux development will wanter off into a thousand different directions: some will die off, some will thrive.
But that being said, let's hope Linus has a long happy life and eventually wins the Vannevar Bush Medal.
My father is a blogger.
And here we thought only Congress could do that for copyrights. God really is more powerful than Caesar.
Q: Microsoft took out a license from SCO. Do you think that was necessary and that the timing seemed strange?
A: It's not exactly clear what they licensed.
Microsoft's been quite honest about what they licensed from SCO. Significant portions of Interix (the Unix subsystem for Windows) are direct ports of SCO's IP (the stuff SCO actually owns, not just what they say they own).
They weren't funding SCO's lawsuit, but it was a PR play. Now Microsoft can point to all of SCO's chest-puffery and say that they're compliant with SCO's licenses and that if you pick the Microsoft solution, you're safe from all of that liability.
NO CARRIER
At least Duc Tho had the decency to decline the price.
If Kissinger can get it why not Linus Torvalds?
Help fight continental drift.
Linus himself says that there are many branches of the Kernel.
Indeed many branches break off and the developers go back to what Linus is doing, while others don't.
If Linus was to dissappear, there would be thousands willing to take his place. But millions would be arguing who the "ONE" should be...thank God we have Linus!
"Linus Torvalds is the creator of the Linux operating system..."
More misunderstanding. I know it's preaching to the choir, but Linux is just the kernel, and the GNU project deserves just as much representation as does Linus Torvalds for it's creation of low level tools such as GCC. Linus is hardly the sole creator of the base system, although he did write the kernel as I'm sure you know.
"...the open source version of Unix..."
Linux is not a version of Unix. GNU/Linux is a derivative clone of UNIX. The system was initially chosen by the GNU project to be a clone of UNIX because it was the most portable OS at the time. I don't know how closely the Linux kernel compares to UNIX kernels and such, but GNU/Linux is definitly UNIX-like as a result of initial planning by the Free Software Foundation. Furthermore, if Linux was a version of UNIX (all of which must be licensed) wouldn't this whole interview (at least the SCO parts) be pointless since SCO licenses UNIX? Saying it's a version implys that it uses UNIX code, which is what brought us to all this madness in the first instance. Honestly, do these reports even know what they're saying, or do they just run off scripts?
"He is a technical leader and an outspoken advocate of open source development, which allows software users to develop and modify their own versions of software for free."
Notice how they use the term "for free" rather than something like "freely modify". Just a subtle point which I felt was worthy of pointing out. Also, notice the commonly used over-patronage of Linus. I think the media does this, unconciously, to effectivley set the boundaries of acceptable discourse on the amazing social phenomenon that is the movement commonly refered to as the "Open Source Movement," which sets unprecidented examples for healthy human society and interaction in comparison to the failed systems of the past. One can't even begin to draw parallels simply because of this sort-of systematic patronage of one man, and overlooking of an entire movement.
For our readers who don't know the origins of Linux, can you talk about how it was written given the existence of Unix?
A: The origin was all written by me. For the first six months or so I was the only person working on Linux. It took almost a year before there was a major contribution from people outside. It's all original code since day one.
Linus: "I am at the center...
You get a lot of folks bashing on RMS because he politely asks people to at least acknowledge the work of the Free Software Foundation by calling the system GNU/Linux, but here you have Torvalds claiming entire responisibility of the OS, granted in response to a question about SCO's involvement in the origins of the OS, but nonetheless claiming total responsibility. So how can we conclude that RMS is cocky when we have this kind of total disregard for everyone else involved in the development of the system.
Until we stop using terms like Linux meaning the whole OS and Intellectual Property as being every legal issue under the sun, we simply can't even begin to have a logical discussion about the issues at hand, and will only further confuse those who may casually read about these subjects in the news.
After reading this article I really thought about a lot of things, and came to the conclusion that the term "Open Source" is really pointless and should be avoided. If you think about it, all source is open. Propreitary code is open to the developers who work on it. It's just maintained in a system of checks, balances, non-disclosure agreements, and "need to know" prediciments. What you're really talking about when you discuss "open-source" is exactly how open it is, and who exactly it's open to. That's why I think it's better to use the term free when discussing these matters, as it's a more liberating term without the boundaries that "open" source can have. Sure it's "open", but who exactly is it open to? If something's free, it's just free; Their are no heirarchiel limitations.
of an anomaly. Virtually all users of Linux (and all other forms of Un*x) are unkempt, longhaired, beast-bearded dirty GNU hippies, and I am sick and tired of having to deal with them.
>
>
We are beast-bearded dirty GNU hippies because unlike baby-faced Whitebread like *YOU*,
we *CAN* grow a beard and are damn proud of the fact.
The female flavours of the "unkempt, longhaired, beast-bearded dirty GNU hippies" are popping out of the cloest more and more.
Maybe a redefinition to accommodate breast and hip size to allow a more unisex interpretation of linux users is prudent.
ChopSuey, which isn't Chinese and hasn't been around for 1000 years.
Step 1: Open hailing frequencies...
You're missing the point. It's annoying to have to constantly remember to refer to "GNU/Linux" because fanatics jump on you for not "giving respect" and for "spreading this lie." It's bizarre and extremist, as if I'm not giving credit or appreciation in my mind for GNU.
Linux is running all my drivers, talking to all my hardware, managing my memory and my processes. It is controlling my computer as an operational system. You can take GNU out of the equation with a bit of work and Linux will still go at it.
I choose to use Linux. It just so happens GNU tools are included on the distros I use, but I'm not choosing to use Linux for those GNU tools, I'm choosing to use it for the kernel, its hardware support, and so forth. If all of GNU was replaced, I'd still be using that Linux kernel. That's the difference, my motivation for using it.
I use Office and Dev-Cpp almost exclusively on Windows, but I don't say Office/Bloodshed/Windows, because I'm choosing to use Windows, and I just happen to have to use those apps all the time under Windows to get anything done.
You guys are like religious fundies, I swear. Loosen up. I can already hear your responses now.
"Sufferin' succotash."
In this case, the childish thing to do is
to claim credit for the whole operating system
and disegard the giants that came before you.
I am afraid it is not childish to claim credit
that you earned. It is, however, childish
to claim the whole thing as your own.
We can live without Linux, but it is not worth
living without GNU and the spirit of Free Software!
http://www.eetimes.com/sys/news/OEG20030703S0026 Did the People ask to see the code?If they didnt will they have to sign NDA?Interesting things keep coming up.If it is just between IBM and SCO why do they even need to concern themselves with CELF?
I suppose I could just go look it up, but did Linus really start working for Transmeta six years ago? I wasn't reading Slashdot six years ago, but I remember Slashdot talking about his move there. It doesn't seem like that long ago...
Of course, the fact that 'six years ago' sounds to me like the Dawn of Time says something about the rate of change in this industry...
OK, to avoid replying to my own post: the author of _Just For Fun_ says that he began working at Transmeta in February of 1997. And I suppose he would know...
More misunderstanding. I know it's preaching to the choir, but Linux is just the kernel, and the GNU project deserves just as much representation as does Linus Torvalds for it's creation of low level tools such as GCC. Linus is hardly the sole creator of the base system, although he did write the kernel as I'm sure you know.
You could still use Linux without GNU tools. Linux is the kernel that is controlling my freaking laptop. It is operating my computer into a usable state. I can replace bash, GCC, and all the rest if I wanted.
Linux is not a version of Unix. GNU/Linux is a derivative clone of UNIX.
Ah, a "GNU/Linux" weenie.
He said "open source version," which is another way of saying it's the open source counterpart, clone, whatever. Version wasn't meant to be so literal.
The system was initially chosen by the GNU project to be a clone of UNIX because it was the most portable OS at the time. I don't know how closely the Linux kernel compares to UNIX kernels and such, but GNU/Linux is definitly UNIX-like as a result of initial planning by the Free Software Foundation. Furthermore, if Linux was a version of UNIX (all of which must be licensed) wouldn't this whole interview (at least the SCO parts) be pointless since SCO licenses UNIX? Saying it's a version implys that it uses UNIX code, which is what brought us to all this madness in the first instance. Honestly, do these reports even know what they're saying, or do they just run off scripts?
You posted an entire insane diatribe over the non-literal use of the word "version." Go see Terminator 3 and relax a bit.
Notice how they use the term "for free" rather than something like "freely modify". Just a subtle point which I felt was worthy of pointing out. Also, notice the commonly used over-patronage of Linus. I think the media does this, unconciously, to effectivley set the boundaries of acceptable discourse on the amazing social phenomenon that is the movement commonly refered to as the "Open Source Movement," which sets unprecidented examples for healthy human society and interaction in comparison to the failed systems of the past. One can't even begin to draw parallels simply because of this sort-of systematic patronage of one man, and overlooking of an entire movement.
Maybe they just liked the idea of free stuff.
You get a lot of folks bashing on RMS because he politely asks people to at least acknowledge the work of the Free Software Foundation by calling the system GNU/Linux, but here you have Torvalds claiming entire responisibility of the OS, granted in response to a question about SCO's involvement in the origins of the OS, but nonetheless claiming total responsibility.
He claimed responsibility...for LINUX! You injected "OS" and went off on another GNU rant. The two letters "OS" were not even uttered. He did not claim total responsibility for "everything."
So how can we conclude that RMS is cocky when we have this kind of total disregard for everyone else involved in the development of the system.
Because RMS didn't have anything to do with the original code of Linux, and it WAS all Linux those first six months. What is your friggin' point? Next.
Until we stop using terms like Linux meaning the whole OS and Intellectual Property as being every legal issue under the sun, we simply can't even begin to have a logical discussion about the issues at hand, and will only further confuse those who may casually read about these subjects in the news.
You are so clearly biased.
Linux is my operating system. I'm not afraid to say it. It is the software that is managing all the of the hardware in my computer, providing drivers, making sure memory is taken care of, managing all of my processes...GNU tools are in there along with a bunch of other things. I could replace all the GNU tools with other software and still use Linux. Linux is operating my system, whether or not G
"Sufferin' succotash."
Linus wouldn't fuck things nearly as bad as Carter.
This whole lawsuit is just a waste of time anyways. Any day now we'll all be using HURD, right?
"Q: There was some mention of the origins of Linux being murky."
A: There has been a lot of rumor. It's more of an allegation. It's complete crap."
Don't you just love it when Linus dispells all those rumors???
GO LINUS!!
SCO isn't trying to get a buyout from IBM. Could MS have paid for their SCO licenses by buying options on the company. They may be letting SCO raise the ruckus over the SCO IP contributed to Linux through IBM, then swoop in when the stocks are as high as they'll get, purchasing a majority of SCO with M$ cheap options; thereby making a few hundred million and the AT&T Unix source.
MS Unix 2005 Anyone? Using a windows like interface but a Posix client too. Unix services emulated above the microkernel?
What do you think?
"RMS interviewed by the goatse.cx guy"
I don't know RMS well enough, but the polite defensiveness does go well with how RMS would respond under such circumstances.
This shouldn't be modded flamebait - unless it's been posted more than once. It's actually quite acceptable comic. Just not too funny, that's all.
LInux. Li-l-li-li-li-li-li-li li nux.
SCO's a freakin' freak but I ain't got time to care
I've got Linux. Li li linux, yeah.
Etc. Etc.
Like what I said? You might like my music
GNOME is part of GNU, it is not an outside project.
When we say GNU, gnome is already included, and
we cannot imply that GNOME is some other contributor.
GNU has contributed a lot of things, including GNOME.
As for as I know, the few lines of code through which
Caldera/SCO claimed that they were injured
has been traced to FreeBSD ! Which strongly
implies the it was *SCO* who stole the code from
Free Software. (After all, what did you
expect from these esteemed excecutives?)
The temperature has been consistently between 20 and 25 C here in southern Finland this week... with some decidedly convertible-incompatible showers, though. The few convertibles that are there are out in the traffic, trying to make the best of the short season. I guess the convertible owners need large garages around here. Must be fun to go visit your convertible in the garage in February when it is -20 C outside and whip yourself over the money you spent.
"Linux is my operating system. I'm not afraid to say it."
Or afraid of looking retarded either apparently. What part of the word SYSTEM don't you understand? Linux is a KERNEL, fucknut. Doesn't help that all you other retards modded this drooler up either. Jesus wept.
Linus stood on his shoulders.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Serious companies are providing quality enterprise systems with Linux and many other big and famous ones are using Linux on their daily operations.
Do you consider Google and Amazon stable?
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Lets ask him to answer to technical questions with vague ideas, double meanings and random musings.
Any other brilliant ideas?
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
It is also a pity that French does not have a word for entrepreneur.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Look Coward, these people are acting in their roles of corporate assholes, and their corporation have publicly known addresses where they can be contacted as such.
Behaving like you do, Cobarde, and hiding behind anonimity (which is not such, I am sure that somebody with a good team of lawyers could track you like nothing) just shows how childish some people can be.
Shame on you Mr Coward.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
of a stupid cheap Linux zealot who doesn't know shit about technology and has just tried linux a couple of weeks ago because it's "cool". You're still lost in config files and random crashes of KDE don't yet piss you off because (oh, dear) it doesn't crash the kernel.
I've been using Linux at home for the last 5 years or so and I'm well aware of its strengths and weaknesses. Weaknesses must be admitted to be fixed. And the attitude of people like you is a barrier for this to happen.
It's pretty clear that Linus is talking about the Linux kernel to US. But not to most people. The problem is the interviewer keeps on referring to Linux as if it's a clone of UNIX -- an entire set of OS' -- when it's really a drop-in replacement for UNIX kernels, to be used with FS/OSS (e.g., GNU). Linus never corrects him in that regard.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
Try getting any work done with just the Linux kernel.
In the modern world, "Operating System" means the kernel and all tools needed to manage files on your computer, install software, etc. You can't even partition your hard-drive with just the Linux kernel.
There is a fucking reason why there are two different words -- Operating System and Kernel. It's because they describe TWO separate things, one of which is a sub-set of the other.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
You can also use a car-engine without the body-frame, tires, and seats that make up the entire car, as well. Try getting anything useful done with it.
It is true that you can make a Linux-based OS without the GNU toolset. There is precisely one Linux-based OS, to my knowledge, that doesn't use the GNU toolset. So get real. Also, since the vast vast majority of them do, calling the set of OS' GNU/Linux is reasonable.
It is relatively clear to us that Linus was taking credit for starting the Linux kernel. Obviously not so clear to the interviewer, nor anyone else who read that article, since he kept on making parallels between the UNIX set of OS' and the Linux kernel -- which is analagous to UNIX kernels, not UNIX OS'.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
The goatse store.
Use ISO 8601 dates [YYYY-MM-DD]
Proletars of all countries unite!
I'm sorry what did you say? You are not the communist?
Sorry again. Sounds very like early communist, just the idea to brainwash about is different ;)))
I have seen too much of this crap lately and I think this guy might be onto something.
For those interested, memes are pretty cool; Take a look at the book "Thought Contagion".
Okay, this sounds like pure cognitive dissonance. You're so fond of iptables and /proc that you're accepting bash, Gnome, printf, and all the other extraneous GNU "tools" that you're forced to install as well?
When Linux started out, the goal was to build a hobbyist OS. Linus used to ship a C library, shell, and most of the other parts of a real and complete OS. People started getting sick of the duplication of effort, though, and one by one replaced the non-kernel parts with their GNU equivalents (or just used them in the first place), until now we have a system which is mixed GNU and Linux, with GNU predominating. Because of this bizarre history, though, it's still called "Linux," and the old references to "Linux the OS" are still in use, even though they're no longer accurate.
I used to be aware of this and not care; after hearing some of the distortions, irrelevancies, and outright falsehoods ("Gnome is not part of GNU") that people come up with to explain why the GNU people don't deserve much credit for "Linux," I've decided that RMS is right and calling the OS "Linux" is misleading.
I'm sorry you feel that way. It seems to annoy some people even to mention GNU (I'm not sure why), but this stuff about "Linux" being mostly GNU is actually true.New company, coming soon to a www.fuckedcompany.com page near you.
Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.
Linus never clarified the difference between the kernel he started and the entire OS.
Isn't that what we have RMS for?
Personally, however, I entirely agree with you, but you don't go far enough. My OS is KDE/XFree86-X11/GNU/Linux, and I'll advocate the death of anyone who dares shorten such a prestigious name for matters of convinience. The XFree86 and KDE projects have done just as much for my OS as the GNU project, so they too should be honored in such a way.
Really?!?! Where did you hear that?
What LINUX operates is a FREE system, not the paid distros.
It is funny to see many companies that start creating new software for free, and then end asking for money for what everybody got used to use...
To be a fan shouldn't be a part of the opensource.
Rwe obliged 2 save our future by choosing:O3 hole-greenhouse effect instead of accepting everydays gossip-nonsense chat?
No, you don't just "chill" in response to plaguarism and intellectual dishonesty. That is a pretty serious thing, and it's going on all over the place. This is the second fuck-nut (the guy who wrote the article) who has said that Linus invented the "Linux OS". Whether this is by ignorance or malice is irrelevant -- ignorance of intellectual dishonesty is no excuse. No, the world isn't going to come to an end because people are being intellectually dishonest. The world also wouldn't come to an end if I said that I invented the airplane. It would not, however, be right.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
help I am being held captive in a chinese fortune cookie discussion factory started by Linus Torvald!
OH THE SHAME I fell off the wagon and use sigs again!
In the RISC vs CISC debate, RISC won : all CPUs these days are either RISC, or RISC cores with a CISC layer on top. Same sort of thing seems to be happening to linux's monolithic kernel. I see 14 kernel threads on my compter.
-Philip
TWIT - The Wiener Is Trolled!
'cause YHBT, YHL. HAND.