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Iceman Otzi was a Fighter
Theatetus writes "Yahoo! News is running a story from USA Today that Otzi the iceman's murder is more complicated than we thought. It seems Otzi had blood on his clothes and knife from four different people in patterns that suggested he took out two with his bow and carried a wounded or dead person over his shoulder. I sense an action movie in the making..." If you don't remember Otzi, read the original story.
I tried to read the article, but I didn't understand it.
Because I'm just a cave man!
Ah, Phil, we barely knew ye...
3D Printing Tips and Tricks at Zheng3.com
... The Straight Dope
I can see it now! It's got action! It's got Drama! It's got this hot, sexy half-naked female co-star! Throw in some young stud like Vin Deisel as Otzi, and we've got a surefire winner!
Alright, who's with me to bid on the movie rights?
Karma Whoring for Fun and Profit.
He's a distant ancestor of John Oconnor.
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
With all the DNA tech we have now, we can make an arrest, right?
The coolest voice ever.
your mom This post has been automagically generated by the FirstPostFlamer Robot. FirstPostFlamer Robot uses technology built by generations of flamers.
SCO had him whacked
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
Since this murder case is still open, I suggest we get together and frame Darl McPrisonBride for it.
The 5,300-year-old "Iceman" discovered in 1991 in the Italian Alps was killed by one or more assailants in a fight that lasted at least two days
That sounds like the Rowdy Roddy Piper fight scene from "They Live", doesn't it?
Nobody ever saw Conan the [Barbarian|Destroyer]? :o
because he was telling copyright fire side stories.
bronze age riaa
"And they were killed in the manner best befitting virgins" ---- "He's dead Jim"
"We deal in lead" - Roland of Gilead
Wonder if he got his head broken by OOG THE CAVEMAN's open-source CD!
Dragging people kicking and screaming into reality since 1996.
with his leathered 5000 yr old skin, his bronze axe, knife, quiver, his grass cloak (usually worn by heardsmen until the last century) and series of wounds (did I mention self-ritualized death?).. Otzi reminds us that life in the alps is cold, dangerous, and just not worth it. (for it, see *MURDER*)
btw.. i think it's great that they used the pollen (which various form found are only released in Autumn) to figure out what things were like when he died. Harsh, autumn is in the alps.. he was fighting many men for days at a time in dead brutal conditions.. RAD.. go otzi
p
** "It's not my job to stand between the people talking to me, and the ones listening to me." -- Pego the Jerk
"Prelude to Terminator" is the title of the movie
I guess it depends on where you're from. I think MTV would rather have it be "Osbourne". Instead of him bitching about the dogs, he'd eat 'em.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts...for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang
or, to tie in to a previous story, perhaps Otzi is a chimera?
Tanking is a bitch.
But at least that's better than going off looking for a Yeti!
+5, Female
OTZI! It's fun for the whole family! From Parker Brothers...
He had blood on his back from one person, and blood on his knife from two more. So the theory is he carried a wounded friend, and fought two assailants. His own DNA set is included in the count of 4. I saw the first discovery show they did on him, was pretty neat. Looking forward to the next one.
So the Iceman murder mystery is as old as linux and they still haven't solved it. WHERE'S LENNY???
He probably spelled "library" with one R again, poor bloody bastard.
Don't blame me, I voted for Durga.
OOG_THE_CAVEMAN, we need you now more then ever.
ERROR: Geek reference assigned an unknown value. Subscriber status will be revoked.
-- Fighting mediocrity one bad post at a time.
Next they'll tell us he was actually from the year 1865 sent back in time 5000 years to protect a hot, but dumpy looking cave-chick from the Steam powered Terminator sent from the same future to kill her before she fathered the distant ancestor of Rudolf Diesel...
The Rock will portray Otzi in the movie...
My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle...
he could have been a bandit that tried to rob the wrong people. Didn't they find him in a pass? Perfect place to ambush some travelers.
Whatever! Sounds to me like he had smacked his would-be wife over the head with a club, and was about to drag her back to his cave, when three ninjas jummped out from behind a rock and started freeking out. Sadly ninjas live the life of the sword, and came to a fitting end. Even if this sword was just a pointy knife.
-makoffee
...you are an archeologist and would like a good cry.
It's a bit boring and slow at times, but overall pretty interesting. The most memorable piece of the book describes hikers and local police/government types hacking at the ice and mud that Otzi was frozen in, irreparably damaging the corpse...breaking the bow (& arrows) in half by snapping it off in the ice when trying to pry it out of the frozen muck. The initial discover of Otzi was nothing less than a tragedy for science.
The book also discusses in detail all the political BS that went along with the discovery...whether he was found in Italy or Austria and who really "owned" Otzi. One big mess, really...
Soon, SCO jokes will be treated with the same loathing as "All your base", "In Soviet Russia", and "Imagine a beowolf of..."
no comment
Also, note that his name wasn't Otzi, and that the introduction of the knife aspect causes us to re-examine previously ruled out suspects.
Wouldn't that be Simpson... Otzi Simpson?
Yes, the ('Great' * 250) grandfather of OJ
The unofficial
Maybe he should run for Governor of California.
* rimshot
Just raise the taxes on crack.
He's a distant ancestor of John Oconnor.
In the all-Irish universe where O'Dyson builds O'SKYNET and unwittingly unleashes the O'Terminators?
"I'll be back, ye swags!"
The coolest voice ever.
simple story... he is a fighter...
Conclusion: He failed his last saving throw.
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
And the blood is just from one of his 4 fraternal twins...
... and what level?
4?
5?
Gashes, arrow wounds, wow, he definitely had more than 10hp!
Nice Fortitude saves, too
[Error 407: No signature found]
Wasn't he that guy who had testicals the size of basket balls?
-makoffee
Everyone knows it should be either Steve or Gorak!
How do we know it was murder? Maybe this Otzi was some Paleolithic punk all hopped up on loco weed and some caveman Clint Eastwood put the arrow in his back in an act of righteous justice.
"I sense an action movie in the making..."
From the end of the article: A one-hour documentary about the new findings, Iceman: Hunt for a Killer, airs at 9 p.m. Aug. 24 on the Discovery Channel. Can you tell me if you sense the last season of Farscape coming on?
Yeah, Otzi was a fighter. So was SCO. Let's just hope that SCO also winds up stabbed, dead, and frozen in the cold alpine mountains.
Clearly, this is direct evidence of early man's preoccupation with video games, since video games are the cause of violence.
Is it any surprise that we're all so bored at work. Yes it's busy and I have to work hard. But it feels completely pointless. Obviously it's because I haven't had to fight anyone to the death lately. Really, If we evolved from these people and they evolved to fight for their lives most of the time what is happening now that we don't use any of these skills. My last meal took fighting it out of the plastic bag into the microwave. I actually got mad that I had to wash a fork to eat it. Excellent use of those skills that took hundreds of generations to develop.
Or did the blood test reveal the sex of the victims?
Note how it goes from 'blood of 2 people' too '2 men'.... As if he couldn't have killed 2 women etc
This sort of assumption seems common in these types of discussions.
ie violent humans wiped out peaceful Neanderthals.
The Iceman Cometh for the Weekend
Scientists discover 5,300 year old, mumified, Italian badass.
Next season on NBC:
Law and Order: Special Caveman Unit
Why would it take so long to discover an arrow head imbedded in his shoulder? Weren't any cat-scans or x-rays done? And why do we have only one verbal testimony of the mummy holding the knife? No pictures were taken of the mummy in situ?
So he had on bearskins, an axe, a knife and a quiver of arrows.
Wadda ya think? Barbarian? Maybe multi-classed with Rouge? I was thinking Druid at first but the copper axe does away with that.
Maybe he died after his rage ended and his HP dropped below 0. Or he was hit with a cone of cold.
Presumably because the statute of limitations for murdering a neanderthal is 5,301 years.
Come on, he has a knife and a bow, is dressed in leather armor, so he must be a RANGER!
Mode (3) smart-aleck mode. Press * to return to main menu.
Yeah I know, "not a neanderthal at all", but I couldn't resist the alliteration.
"Otzi" is a nice cute name. Maybe if they'd named him something like "Shiv" or "Kane" people's imaginations wouldn't bestow such benevolent traits upon him automatically.
Maybe he was a cannibal, who was carrying someone he killed back to his lair to consume, when he was attacked by the brothers of his victim, who were intent upon ending his rein of terror over the local populace.
Or maybe I'm a cynic. Heh.
...from the HBO documentary, he deserved what he got.
or maybe it was two of those odd twins from yesterday's artice about those ferternal twins who absorb the other one in the womb
Article says...
It was very exciting when the blood samples came back positive for human DNA from four separate individuals
Bet they don't know about the Chimera Twins/Quadruplets
I guess they could use the DNA to track down and prosecute the descendants of the killers?
Of course we know Otzi. He's the Prince of f*cking darkness. What do you expect from someone like that? Of course, he won't remember doing it, too many drugs over the years. But Sharon might remember something. Ask her.
Somewhere, right now, a lawyer is filing a wrongful death suit against his killers.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
I must say that I find the theory that he caried a wounded friend a bit far fetched. The blood on his back may just as well have come from another attacker. Otzi may himself have been the one who wounded that man, or the man may have accidently wounded himself before or during the fight (e.g. by somehow hitting the rocks), or he may have been wounded by the mysterious friend of Otzi, or ...
While we're at it, for instance, let's speculate that Otzi simply found "his" cape after it had been lost by one of several other man who were indeed having a fight, but who never ever saw Otzi. It's improbable, but not impossible.
Remember that there are just about as many theories about what he was doing up there and how he died as there are (groups of) people who looked into it all.
Linux user since early January 1992.
reported by Anonymous Cannibal
In developing news, Slashdot.org has released a non-SCO related article. Slashdotters are ecstatic at the incoming news "Oh man I really thought it was the end of the road there for a minute, I mean last week was bad, but as of Sunday, I don't know how many SCO based articles they posted. I think it's somewhere in the low hundreds though" stated a user who wished to remain anonymous.
"It's exciting for the moment, but I know these morons will just post some other sickening story about a company that's about to go under any god damned moment". stated fx0rspy.
Slashdot once upon a time was one of the hottest sites on the net, and the site which now boasts close to 600+ thousand users (most of which are duplicate users) is slowly going down the toilet. "Well I doubt if it is going to go away, if it did most of the admins there would likely commit suicide or something. I just want to see it go back to the basics and focus on news. Sure SCO is news, but do we really need it shoved down our throats four to five times?" stated another user via IRC who wished to remain anonymous.
Numerous request were sent to Slashdot administrative staff who never responded to our e-mails. We feel for them, and will make sure to send them carfare when the company goes under so they'll be able to get to the unemployment office.
(c) 2003 Disgruntled Press Society
FYI: www.iceman.it is the site of the museum where you can see the Iceman, learn about his story, see all the stuff and gadgets that was found near his body.
The Museum is located in the city of Bolzano - Italy.
If you want to get there by plane, the nearest airports are Verona (Italy) about 150km from Bolzano. Or Innsbruck (Austria) about 150km from Bolzano.
Otzi's naturally mummified body, the oldest found so far, became a worldwide sensation in 1991 after two Austrian mountain climbers saw it in a thawing glacier at 10,500 feet on the Hauslabjoch Alpine pass at the Italian/Austria border. Nearby artifacts included a copper blade ax, a bearskin cap, shoes of bearskin and woven grass, a quiver of arrows, and a knife
See, if only he had 50 feet of rope, all his problems could have been avoided.
one name...
;p
James Cameron,
OK, but it would be kewl!
Throw in some young stud like Vin Deisel as Otzi, and we've got a surefire winner!
Nah, Vin Deisel is better suited as a neanderthal.
Is it just me or does the name "Otzi" sound vaguely like one that would belong to one of those hideous poofy poodles? "Time for your visit to the doggie spa my widdle Otzi!"
-Silmarildur
"It was very exciting when the blood samples came back positive for human DNA from four separate individuals."
It could have been 4 separate individuals... OR, it could have been 2 chimera twins. Hmmm...
Do not read this sig.
It's interesting how people automatically assume he was some explorer, a hero of his time.
Dig
It's nice to know that with so many unsolved crimes, the best scientists in the world are going to waste the rest of their days on a person dead for 5100 years? Great!
It had Brendan Fraser doing a reenactment of the Iceman getting trapped.
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
This may be the most sane idea I've yet seen regarding the recall.
Otsi J. was seen driving away in a white Ford Flinstonemobile.
They are re-running the original show about this find on Discovery Science Channel today, now I know why.
Whenever the offence inspires less horror than the punishment, the rigour of penal law is obliged to give way...
Due to the lack of the correct Umlaut character in english, you made his name "Otzi".
In fact its "Oetzi", or with the correct Umlaut its "Otzi" (an O with two dots on top)
The name comes from the area "Oetztal" where he was found.
Too bad he didnt carry his ID, maybe his real name is Larry or so.
You UNICODE challenged monkeys. :P
Totally, everyone knows that SCO sent us up the alogic bomb to all our beowulf clusters on the Soviet bases thus 0w3n1n6 all our linux boxes, which belong to them.
someone please FIRE this editor he SUCKS and his stories BLOW CHUNKS.
His real name was Roscoe, but you'll never catch me before I get back into my time machine!!
I can see the Hollywood movie now. Caveman falls in love with Cavewoman. Cavewoman, who has no modern medicine, no concept of hygeine and scavenges plants and dead animals for food, will have beauty that rivals a modern day Miss America. Caveman, who is in the same situation and a recent decedent of the ape, will have the suaveness to of Sean Connery. Both will speak perfect English, but with a slight "caveman" accent.
After frollicing in the beautiful mountain landscape, Cavewoman is captured by an evil Cavemen tribe and brutally killed. Caveman turns out to be a martial arts/archery/knife expert and goes after the Caveman tribe for revenge. Ensues is a 1 hour battle through horrible storms, lightening and freezing mountains. Caveman will eventually kill off his aggressors but succumb to his own wounds.
Slowly pan out of Caveman being buried in snow on a glacier.
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
To crush the enemy. To see him driven before you. To hear the lamentations of the women.
Otzi killed the Kilngons, who had killed the security guards Ramirez and Chang earlier, and helped Spock carry a bloody Kirk to the time portal.
t ud io/6546/Wavs/fightm.wav
Music:http://www.geocities.com/televisioncity/s
The party's over
I can just imagine the ancient food advertisement: "Got Crotch?"
I think there needs to be an excemption in this case. One of my ancestors was murdered by Otzi. Because of this my great^98th grandmother had to raise my great^97th grandfather in abject poverty.
All my ancestors since then have been in the lowest socio-economic bracket. I demand compensation from all living descendants of Otzi.
:wq
They'll discover that he actually had *three* arrows in him, and a cloven horn by his side. Turns out that jerk Aragorn didn't put Boromir in a boat after all.
With reasonable men I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but to tyrants I will give no quarter. -- William Lloyd
Maverick and Goose are the top suspects.
Ice, Action, Mayhem, Sounds like a PACKER game
Use your head, can't you, use your head,
You're on earth, there's no cure for that - S. Beckett
If you want an iceman for California, vote for the Encino Man.
__
Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
GW Bu
Given the current hot weather in Europe, I am surprised that no other similar findings have been announced on glaciers.
__
Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
GW Bu
I'm sure he was just defending his intellectual property...
The evidence seems rather suspicious to me, especially when one of the archealogists carried that vial of blood in his pocket when he visited the site rather than taking it to the museum lab right away . . .
"Man's greatest good fortune is to chase and defeat his enemy, seize his total possessions, leave his married women weeping and wailing, ride his gelding, and use the bodies of his women." -- Genghis Khan
You know... I just followed the link to the older story, and I know it has to be pretty old, since it had the threads stripped out, and was missing it's moderation info (other than the number of points). That got me thinking... I know it's from July 26th, but I doubt it was this year, since that was a few weeks ago. It would be REALLY sweet if slashdot listed the year that a story was posted! It could be up in the title near the date and time.
If there's already a way to find the year, could someone please point me in that direction? It would be cool to know. Thanks!
This space for rent, inquire within.
Actually I think he was killed by an arrow wasn't he? I don't think there's any indication that it was poisoned, so no fortitude save. You don't get a save versus arrows, it's a ranged attack roll by the attacker. Judging by the description of what he was wearing I place that on the order of protection of padded armor. Lots of mobility but no real protection, only a +1 AC. I'll agree he seemed to be a fighter so he would've been caught flat-footed as he was shot from behind, and since he didn't have uncanny dodge (being a fighter), he was denied his dexterity bonus to AC. We have no indication of the range of the attack so I'll just assume around 60 feet, so no ranged penalty for our attacker, meaning he'd need only an 11 minus his ranged attack bonus on a D20 to hit Otzi, ignoring any relevant feats he may have had. Anyone with a little skill or luck with a bow could've done that. If the attacker was a rogue and within 30 feet he would've gotten additional sneak attack damage, which might be fair to assume since we know Otzi was killed in the battle.
Survival of the strongest wouldn't be a good thing for geeks. Surviving High School is hard enough as it is. Of course, it could mean that the really brainy ones would come up with all sorts of unique and interesting technological devices to defeat their adversaries. Maybe a home-made taser or something like that, build from recycled motherboard and PSU capacitors...
we see what we want to. And what we want are heroes, not villians. Given an unknown, we want that unknown to be Vin Diesel fighting the good fight, not Ted Bundy making of with a co-ed.
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
Who notes the polypore mushroom(s) found with him.
Said mushrooms help with clotting. Other polypores boost interfereon and interlukon in the body.
Look at this.. I knew Otzi, he was a good guy and never did anything you said. You want the real story.. Ok, it was a long long time ago and me and him were talking about the ideas around this idea called the "internet" an idea we knew was going nowhere but we spoke of it anyway. We talking about how it could link the world together and make life easier. Right then a rabbid monkey jumped out and went for Otzi's neck I reached for his knife and killed it.. Slowly Otzi fell.. The bacteria in the monkey saliva was going to his head.. He screamed "Frag me Diaper, do it know" i reached for my rail gun.. But I didn't want to watch him get blown into pieces. So got out my WOD modded shot gun that was a freeze gun and froze him.. I was hoping no one would find out but NOW THE TRUTH IS OUT!!!
...echoes in archeology.
i think Otzi was a modern day scientist.
:)
he will become the first man to travel thru time
in a few years. this will be the first such etempt
whiteout goo-ifing the human body. it will be
very hazardous because super-large amounts of
energies will be used to creat a wormhole.
unfortunately he will become stuck (or is stuck) and fellow scientiscts following him thru the wormhole will become frustrated that they are stuck in the bronze-age and eventually they will kill each other because they go mad!
also in there somewhere is a love-story
Goathearding + Rectal exams + Violently angry people?
It's painfully obvious that the Otzi guy is actually the long-lost ancestor of the Goatse guy.
Because we all know that speed is of the essence in these murder cases, we wouldn't want the murder(s) to get off, because a statute of limitations expired now would we. :-)
in my life God comes first.... but Linux is pretty high after that
Francis Smit
Imagine how many scenes in Fellowship and Two Towers would be great in a musical.
In Two Towers, when Gandalf is ridding Saruman from Theoden, he would throw off his gray rags and start dancing there... each time gandalf busted a killer move, theoden/saruman would wince in pain, until he was cast out by the music, and theoden would also then be dancing along at the end of the scene.
Regardless of what theory you subscribe to, Otzi seems to have lead an interesting life.
...and had an interesting end.
I think I'll actually RTFA this time.
"First lesson," Jon said. "Stick them with the pointy end."
but I bet either Frank Columbo or Adrian Monk will bust this guy for murder on just the cologne he's wearing.
Windows XP SP2 told me to install third-party software that prevents viruses and protects stability... I chose Ubuntu
He is still stupid..
Auton! Auton! Auton! Auton! Auton Aus Tirol.
"sometimes I wish I were otzi..." goatse, otzi. Let's hope there's a difference.
"I sense an action movie in the making..."
Arnold Schwarzenegger IS Otzi. Btw, his hometown is not so far from the place wher Otzi was found.
First picture from the film:
http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,285228,00.jpg
I don't need a signature.
If he was murdered, why didn't the murderers take his knife, axe, etc? Surely these would have been valuable commodities back then. Why would they have been left with the body?
Proverbs 21:19
The eaten genitals.
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
the biggest loser on Slashdot. You can't even make a correct reference to a fucking geek movie. What can you geeks do?? Holy fucking shit, I thought I saw the lowest, geekiest losers ever but you take the cake!! LOL!!
It's JOHN CONNOR, you fucker.
Even with no concept of inbreeding - inter-tribe DNA exchange becomes of great importance for long term viability of your genetic material.
Many tribal systems revolve around the theft model, mostly as it requires little or no inter-tribal coordination or cooperation.
It would seem at least feasible that he carried off another tribes woman, was pursued by the men, involved in a battle (abandoning the woman), and was eventually killed.
P.S. The retrieval of undamaged arrows was commonplace right up until the age of mass production. The flight characteristics of each arrow was unique (so you had favourites), they were laboriously hand crafted, and if they did not strike a bone are almost sure to still be usable.
Q.
Insert Signature Here