Interview with Linus Torvalds from NYT Magazine

aelfric35 writes "David Diamond drills Linus on topics from filesharing (sharing is good) to SCO (trying to claim paternity on his child) to his rivalry with Bill Gates (doesn't care enough to be a nemesis) in next week's New York Times Magazine."

Comments

Funny

[KrispyKringle]

He's not stupid, but he really does come across as only interested in the technology. He admits it, of course, and far be it for me to hold that against someone. But it strikes me as funny that someone who really seems to be limited, by choice, to the technology, would be looked to as a ideological leader, as well.

This isn't criticism. But I think to some degree, there are those who are ideological leaders--Lessig springs to mind; his philosophical and legal insight is incredible--and there are technological visionaries. But the two aren't necessarily the same.

Re:Funny

[taion]

Hmph. He comes across as being somewhat arrogant, too, with comments like, "Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect."

Oh well. I'll probably be modded down into oblivion for this.

Re:Funny

[The Kow]

But it strikes me as funny that someone who really seems to be limited, by choice, to the technology, would be looked to as a ideological leader, as well.

When did he get elected to ideological leader status? Don't you have to take a stand to be a leader? Maybe I'm not versed enough in my Linus-lore, but I don't recall him ever making a big push to be 'heard' on anything very ideological in nature.

This is both a critique and a request for more information, mind you - I am fully aware of the possibility that I simply might not have heard of times when Linus was looked to in such a manner.

Re:Funny

[KrispyKringle]

No, I think you are right. But you misunderstand what I mean. My point was not that he was a leader--he's not, in that sense. But when Linus speaks, people listen. Case in point.

Re:Funny

[Slack3r78]

Really, I thought that was one of the funnier comments in the interview. And it's typical Linus. You'll see he prefaces this with a statement about "I don't really care enough to consider myself to be Microsoft's nemesis." Which is the absolute truth. It wouldn't break his heart to see Microsoft go away, but he's not actively seeking to make it happen either. But just the same, who WOULDN'T want their baby to become the biggest, coolest thing on the block?

Re:Funny

[The Kow]

Sure, but so does the President.. .. ..okay, point taken.

Re:Funny

[Zooka]

If he really [actually] thinks that the downfall of Microsoft is an inevitability, I'd love to hear his timeframe on that. But I have to think that it isn't what he meant.

Re:Funny

[patricksevenlee]

So the guy creates Linux and criticize him for not being Brian Eno? What's next? Dissing Eno because Music For Airports wasn't open source? Sheesh

Re:Funny

[KrispyKringle]

"This isn't criticism." Read the post before you reply.

Re:Funny

[kfg]

I thought it was pretty well understood that RMS is the "Free Software" ideological leader ( who as it happens is also a technological visionary ), ESR is the "Open Source(tm)" spokesperson for pragmatism (and also a technological visionary), and that Linus' rallying cry is, was and likely always shall be:

"Show me the code."

To the extent that he is the "ideological" leader of anyone I know it's always for his basic folksy refusal to be anyone's ideological leader. We like him. We don't "follow" him.

Did I miss a meeting or a memo or something?

KFG

Re:Funny

[qtp]

it strikes me as funny that someone who really seems to be limited, by choice, to the technology, would be looked to as a ideological leader

"Ideological" is probably the wrong term, but his pragmatism definately can be considered an ethical guidline for how to conduct oneself in business.

Too many people are vested in the "old ways" of company loyalty, destroy all competition, and take your customers for every penny they have to realize the value that Open Source and Free Software are offering business at the cost of a little cooperation (or at least a lack of interference).

Re:Funny

[Anonymous Coward]

Close, but rms is the nut, esr is the wacko, and Linus is the level-headed tech guy.

Re:Funny

[EvilTwinSkippy]

Come off it.

Not every great thinker is a Demagogue. Looking at the amount Linus has changed our world, can you think of anyone from 1991 that has had as big a sustained impact?

Some change comes from behind the scenes, by folks who are just happy to do. The puppies who need to be patted on the head and told how famous and important they are can kiss my behind.

Re:Funny

[Anonymous Coward]

I always thought he was a moron exactly for this reason.

Re:Funny

[hdparm]

'scuse me, are you talking about Linus or Bill? You got me lost here.

Re:Funny

[bucketoftruth]

I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect. I think the way he phrased it was ominous, but I honestly believe that he has loftier goals than simply running MS out of business. He is truly an engineer's engineer.

Re:Funny

[newbiefan]

If the Linux licence was not GPL how many people would have "showed him the code?" Would there be a rally by companies to create an open platform if it could become propriatery at any time? Think about it.

Re:Funny

[kfg]

Which is why Linus allowed his arm to be twisted into releasing Linux under the GPL.

However little twisting it took you have to remember that it did take twisting.It wasn't his idea.

Moreover, what won him was a purely technological arguement. The GPL allowed generation of most code and the best code in the shortest time.That's all.

Without Linux BSD would almost surely be the dominant force in the Unix world, and many propriatary companies would prefer that it were.

History is, however, what history turned out to be. As it happens I think we're all the better for it. We have Linux under the GPl and BSD under the BSD license.

We have choice and the choice is ours. I rather think Linus likes it that way.

KFG

Re:Funny

[Feztaa]

I like Linus's description of himself from RevolutionOS:

"Think of Stallman as the Great Philosopher, and think of me as the Engineer."

Granted, it's totally bogus -- I would argue that Stallman has put more work ('engineering') into the GNU toolset than Linus has put into Linux, but it's still a nice way of thinking about it.

Re:Funny

[Greg Lindahl]

Without Linux BSD would almost surely be the dominant force in the Unix world, and many propriatary companies would prefer that it were.

I'm aways amused by the assumption that "proprietary companies prefer BSD." Lots of them don't -- there are circumstances in which the viral nature of the GPL is *good* for a proprietary company. A commercial company releasing source under the BSD license is helping their competition without helping themselves much. A commercial company releasing code under the GPL is only helping competition that also uses the GPL -- and the rising tide raises all GPL boats.

Sure, companies that only do closed-source work prefer the BSD license. But that's no surprise to anyone.

Re:Funny

[peteran]

Ummhmm...
Some feel the call in the same way as those in Jean d'Arc (or how it is spelled). Now Linus may not be as appealing to rallying around as she was, but there is always a mixed feeling...in some kind of way. What is the difference between like and follow?

Re:Funny

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure, companies that only do closed-source work prefer the BSD license. But that's no surprise to anyone.

Don't you suppose that's what he meant by proprietary companies?

Also, everyone should prefer receiving code under the BSD license, you can do practically anything with it. It's distributing under the BSD that companies may not like, but if they are using BSD licenses, they can do pretty much anything they damn well please.

Re:Funny

[Darth]

Also, everyone should prefer receiving code under the BSD license, you can do practically anything with it.

can i GPL it? (joking)

It's distributing under the BSD that companies may not like, but if they are using BSD licenses, they can do pretty much anything they damn well please.

Companies can do whatever they damn well please with GPL software too...as long as they dont distribute it.

I'm not entirely sure why they would not like distributing under the BSD license, though.

Re:Funny

[Anonymous Coward]

think about it. You are modded 0.

Re:Funny

[Sphere1952]

""Show me the code."

To the extent that he is the "ideological" leader of anyone I know it's always for his basic folksy refusal to be anyone's ideological leader. We like him. We don't "follow" him.

Did I miss a meeting or a memo or something?"

If "Show me the code" isn't an ideology then what is an ideology? Sure, Stallman created the fundament of Free Software -- just like John the Baptist -- but it was Linus who shoved the 'path' up their noses.

I follow Linus in the same sense I'd follow someone up a mountain path. Linus is ahead of me in line.

Re:Funny

[snilloc]

]]Also, everyone should prefer receiving code under the BSD license, you can do practically anything with it.

]can i GPL it? (joking)

IANA GPL expert, but I'm pretty sure you can. You just can't retroactively GPL somebody else's stuff. You could create a GPL'd fork to a BSD project.

Re:Funny

[jonadab]

> If he really [actually] thinks that the downfall of Microsoft is
> an inevitability

If you seriously think there's any question about this, you haven't
studied any history. *Every* human institution fails eventually,
whether it be a government, a company, a nonprofit organisation,
or whatever. It's just a matter of time.

Now, talking timeframe, that's a much harder thing. Will Microsoft
outlast Sun? Apple? Active maintenance of the Linux kernel? Will
it outlast C/C++? Will Microsoft outlast Perl? We don't know (for
sure) the answer to these questions. But will Microsoft eventually
fail? Of course. It's just a matter of *when*.

Some will say, "Oh, no, if it accomplished X, Y, or Z while it was
still current, it didn't fail", but that's just a different way of
defining failure; in that case, replace the word "fail" above with
some other suitable word that indicates a ceasing or downfall.

Will Microsoft go bankrupt next year? Not hardly. (Not in one
year even if the major hardware vendors ALL at ONCE tell them to
shove their OEM licenses, though certainly if even one major PC
hardware vendor did that it would be major news.)

Me, I don't really want to see Microsoft die quickly. I want to see
Outlook die quickly, but a sudden death of Microsoft as a company
would be a bad thing. Gradual decline toward being one of several
major players would be much better. And much more likely to happen.

Re:Funny

[TheMadPenguin]

You have made some excellent points, jonadab. Microsoft will never just 'go under'... at least not as far as I can forsee. Personally, I think Microsoft will eventually just turn into a hardware company. This is just my own $0.02 of course, but when comparing their software and hardware offerings, once cannot overlook the fact that their hardware (for the most part) is well though out and built. Their software, on the other hand, is not. Very strange for a company whose main product line consists almost entirely of software products.

You have to look at the common life cycles of technology and the companies that drive it. In the technology sector, there has never been one company who has remained consistant through the course of time... Microsoft coming the closest of course. You must also consider that these life cycles are getting shorter as technology moves ahead on both hardware/software planes. Let's look at the proprietary software model, for instance. Most proprietary models are developed in a 'clean room' enviromnent by a limited number of engineers on a limited amount of hardware. While this may, in some cases, produce a very tight product, the release cycle is very slow and the chances of hardware incompatibilities are greater (depending on their budget of course).

Open source software, on the other hand, is developed at a mind numbing rate and developed by thousands of programmers around the world. Given the ever-shrinking techology life cycles and the rate of development for both models, the winner is clear. Microsoft can not compete. This is not to say that they will simply die, because they won't. What we will see is a form of mutation of the company as they reorganize and refocus their energies on the products that they know are strong. In my opinion, this will be in the hardware sector, but like any opinion.. I could be dead wrong.

Re:Funny

[Greg Lindahl]

Also, everyone should prefer receiving code under the BSD license, you can do practically anything with it.

But many people don't. Maybe you should ask them why.

Re:Funny

[ncstockguy]

Comparing Torvalds to Lessig is like comparing a falcon to a goat. Won't work. Two different animals. Different goals. Different vision. Both are very good at what they do, however.

Excellent slip in at the end

[coolmacdude]

I actually found most of it to be kind of dull, until the last line.

Re:Excellent slip in at the end

[Adam_Trask]

Exactly... i am still smiling :-)

Re:Excellent slip in at the end

[MegaHamsterX]

For the slashdotter who doesn't read the articles and just looks for the pictures here it is.

Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect.

Sounds like a bad episode of Springer

[dankdirk77]

SCO you little slut! So many people have had your code you ain't never gonna get custody (picks up a chair and hurles it downstage).

Ah, you have love Linus ...

[petabyte]

Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect.

Just reading that made me smile. Everybody takes this whole MS vs. the world thing so seriously its great someone can sit back and still have fun with it.

Re:Ah, you have love Linus ...

[MntlChaos]

dang it. you beat me to it. I was about to post the same thing about those same lines :-(

Re:Ah, you have love Linus ...

[EvilTwinSkippy]

Amen.

World domination takes away from the time that could be spent hacking.

Re:Ah, you have love Linus ...

[Anonymous Coward]

I, for one, welcome our new Linux overlords.

Re:Ah, you have love Linus ...

[Soko]

Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect.

Just reading that made me smile. Everybody takes this whole MS vs. the world thing so seriously its great someone can sit back and still have fun with it.

You know, Mr. Gates would likely get a chill, not a chuckle.

There is nothing more scary than someone bent on your destruction, who truly doesn't give a flying fuck about you, and actually has the weapons to disp[ose of you. No chance to fight to the death, no calling out for the final showdown - just getting tossed aside like trash. Truly, and ignomious end. As it should be - Welcome to capitalism.

Soko

Re:Ah, you have love Linus ...

[nyseal]

I agree...it must be nice to be smug to a multi-billion dollar corporation. I wish I could be so smug.

Re:Ah, you have love Linus ...

[kevin lyda]

"everybody?"

uh, no. i find ms's position confusing. it really is pretty awful technology - and i just spent the past several months seriously writing windows code for the first time in my career so i know. unix has warts, but wow, it's been like living in medieval times the past few months (and that's even with a mingw32 cross-compiler). why all the windows programmers (app and os) haven't killed themselves is an amazing testament to the human spirit.

so yeah, confusing. it gets hyped up as this tech nirvana when it's really just a cheap knockoff/kludge.

more proof that a lot of the world is not very keen on reality.

Re:Ah, you have love Linus ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Humanity consists of explorers, finding rough places where the going is tough, and then staying there as long as possible. Hardly surprising that so many people prefer MS.

I guess all of us linux geeks are just lazy bums who dislike adventure.

Re:Ah, you have love Linus ...

[arkanes]

You know that of all the compilers commonly used on Windows, mingw32 is about the worst one? Maybe you need to re-evaluate some of your assumptions.

Re:Ah, you have love Linus ...

[kevin lyda]

what would you recommend? note, you're responding to a developer who has access to a few linux x86 machines and a few opensbd sparc machines. though in all honesty the openbsd machines are really just xterminals, so if i could avoid them i'd like that.

also, why is mingw32 bad? i just need it to generate correct code. it's running in a retail environment where it polls directories (that's the design i have to work with, yes i know it sucks) and doing modem comms (but very low speed modem comms so tapi isn't really useful here - though as api's go it sucks too).

Re:Ah, you have love Linus ...

[arkanes]

Well, if you're going to do serious Windows development, you have to spend money. I'd recommend the Intel compiler if you've got the 700 bucks - it's argument compatible with GCC, so you can just drop it in and your current build scripts (should) work.

The main problem is that mingw32s API headers aren't up to date and in places are broken, and, at least in my experience, it can't handle the Microsoft-isms in the official SDK headers. Try the Borland C++ command line compiler, if you can.

If these are NT based machines (maybe 9x too, I'm not sure), theres an API for recieveing file/directory change notifications, without polling.

Also, real Windows development you need to compile & run on Windows - cross compiling doesn't really cut it except for trivial stuff - holds true for any cross platform development, really.

Low level modem comm does suck ass, especially if it's not high enough level for you to use stuff like TAPI.

Re:Ah, you have love Linus ...

[Simon Garlick]

You know, Mr. Gates would likely get a chill, not a chuckle.

There is nothing more scary than someone bent on your destruction, who truly doesn't give a flying fuck about you

Way to miss the point. Linus is most definitely NOT bent on the destruction of ANYTHING. He has said time and time again that all he wants to do is make Linux better. When will people actually listen to him? He isn't bent on the destruction of Microsoft or of Bill Gates or of the Great Electric Boogaloo. HE DOESN'T CARE.

Re:Ah, you have love Linus ...

[tundog]

find ms's position confusing. it really is pretty awful technology

yeah, like DCOM. what a joke. It drives me crazy that when I select files on a remote win machine that I have to wait for DCOM overhead to complete before I can copy the selected files to another directory. It drives me absolutly batty! If I have the remote file names, i should be able to paste without being forced to cruise slashdot to pass the time.

Linus is cool - Linux users aren't

[Anonymous Coward]

Linus is really cool. He is just a geek engineer interested in technology. This is _good news_.

However, I read over here that peolpe don't want to believe that Linus is only interested in the technology! They WANT to see only what they want to see: A HERO who will take down MS.

Linus is not that. He is an engineer. But people just want their hero... and then they get dissapointed when Linus adds bitkeeper or adds DRM to the kernel. Because these Linux users only see what they want to see.

Re:Linus is cool - Linux users aren't

[SaXisT4LiF]

But people just want their hero... and then they get dissapointed when Linus adds bitkeeper or adds DRM to the kernel. Because these Linux users only see what they want to see.

Possibly flamebait, but whatever...

I'm sorry, but the only thing linux users want to see is the source. If bitkeeper or DRM gets added to the kernel, it's completely within your right under the GPL to go into the source and remove it. That's the beauty of open source development.

People use Linux because (A) it works and (B) it gives them the assurance that if they want to change the way their system works they can.

End of line

Re:Linus is cool - Linux users aren't

[orpx]

'there is enough resources for everyone in the world. But not enough for everyone's greed'

-uknown

that applies in so many ways. These people cannot wait for their hero. they must contribute. MS is only a problem of a bigger problem. dont break its legs, they could grow back! shoot it's head off.

Re:Linus is cool - Linux users aren't

[Penguinshit]

Actually, I think people see Linus as the guy who created the thing which will take down MS.

He's not a hero for taking down MS, he's a hero for creating this really cool thing and setting it in motion in the correct direction. We all chose to get in line behind it and help it along. His little beastie will take down MS by itself, but is not organic so can not be considered "a hero" itself.

Perhaps we're all heroes then...

Re:Linus is cool - Linux users aren't

[Anonymous Coward]

Just so you guys know: Bitkeeper is not something you add to the kernel.

It's a closed source version control system like CVS but proprietary.

It's used in development, it isn't actually part of the linux project.

Oh, GOD!

[PurpleFloyd]

When asked about SCO, Linus likens it to a paternity case and has this to say:

Even though SCO has refused to undergo the technical equivalent of DNA testing, and even though my (and other people's) DNA is probably all over Linux [emphasis mine].

I feel so... dirty.

Re:Oh, GOD!

[Renderer of Evil]

This is why I alays wash Linux CD images prior to installing.

Re:Oh, GOD!

[EvilTwinSkippy]

Um, in paternity suits isn't one usually trying to NOT come up positive?

Re:Oh, GOD!

[kfg]

On the other hand it's a well known truism that mixed breeds are smarter, stronger and overall genetically superiour to pure breds.

You might have a bit of trouble backing this hypothesis up by casual observance around the trailer park, however.

KFG

Re:Oh, GOD!

[Anonymous Coward]

Especially when they spell "superior", "superiour"...

Re:Oh, GOD!

[Sri Lumpa]

Yeah, for a kernel hacker, Linux is geek pron.

Re:Oh, GOD!

[Anonymous Coward]

Shouldn't a simple make clean be enough?

Linus quote:

[bersl2]

So either we should make it a law that all geeks have dates -- I'd have supported such a law when I was a teenager -- or the blame is really on the companies who sell and install the systems that are quite that fragile.

I second that.

Both parts.

Re:Linus quote:

[rekkanoryo]

And I third that--both parts, as well. I bet the rest of the geek community is right behind us, too.

Re:Linus quote:

[fearlessrogue]

Fourth.

Re:Linus quote:

[eatdave13]

Somebody get these geeks dates quick! I don't want any of you fruit baskets behind me.

Re:Linus quote:

[KiDas]

There is a reason geeks can't get dates... If geeks had dates while they were teenagers, they would be knocking up girls and sporting brand new babies. That would cause the quick end of the entire geek phenomenon. No more geeks?...

God would never allow that!

Note the quote...

[Crasoum]

"Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will (emphasis mine) just be a completely unintentional side effect."

He does not say may, possibly, or anything of the like, but instead uses will.

Let the MS bashing resume.

Re:Note the quote...

[EvilTwinSkippy]

Hey, mankind didn't set out to destroy the planet either...

And we return again to World Domination...

So Grog, when you got the idea for domesticating cattle, were you thinking of the leveling of jungles to make pastureland?

Ug, Ug. (No, actually I was trying to come up with a way to not spend so much time hunting.)

Gug, Roo, Ug. (And maybe finally getting around to coding the kernel for an open source Unix workalike.)

Ug, Ug, Foo. (But, not having and experience with the C programming language, I had to settle for cave paintings.)

i knew it

[b17bmbr]

Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect.

actually, he is right. you don't start out with the goal of destroying anyone. you just do it better and viola', world domination. of course that doesn't apply to microsoft. they didn't do it better, just marketed it better.

Re:i knew it

[The Kow]

just marketed it better

Which is, for both direct and indirect reasons, 'doing it better'.

Re:i knew it

[Vengeful weenie]

He doesn't start out with the goal of destroying anyone. I wouldn't bet the same thing on MS's part.

Re:i knew it

[kylef]

you just do it better and viola', world domination.

This has never happened in the past... what makes you think it will start now?

of course that doesn't apply to microsoft. they didn't do it better, just marketed it better.

Microsoft didn't get to their position by marketing. Making that claim is simply being disingenuous. They rose to their current position through a combination of great timing, shrewd contract negotiation, and "good enough" products.

First they got a contract with IBM for DOS because they had an operating system to sell when others did not (or were unwilling). After that point, they rode the Intel x86 evolutional wave, improving their OS to basically keep up with Intel (with a sizable lag). No marketing was required: killer apps were written (Lotus 1-2-3 and Wordperfect come to mind), and history was made.

But even though their historical products achieved success mostly through timing genius, I think NT represents a new chapter for MS and shows that they DO know how to create a good product from scratch. Even if they DID have to hire some DEC engineers to do it!

Re:i knew it

[Anonymous Coward]

Eh, NT is based of VMS, it's not from scratch. period.

Re:i knew it

[Darth]

First they got a contract with IBM for DOS because they had an operating system to sell when others did not (or were unwilling).

no they didnt. They got a contract with IBM because IBM didnt know they didnt have an operating system to sell. they bought dos after they got the contract.

After that point, they rode the Intel x86 evolutional wave, improving their OS to basically keep up with Intel (with a sizable lag).

that's being a little generous.

No marketing was required: killer apps were written (Lotus 1-2-3 and Wordperfect come to mind), and history was made.

yes, third party developers created killer apps that ran under windows due to it's ubiquity. (which by the way was created as a combination of compatibility with an IBM branded product and a low target price as a result of Compaq's cloning efforts.)
Once those third party apps made DOS dominant, Microsoft undermined them via their OS control to create the opportunity for their own in house products to supplant them.

Their historical products achieved success through luck (the IBM contract), brand recognition of IBM, the hard work of 3rd party developers (who they later crushed), underhanded business tactics, and (later) abusing a dominant market position.

I might have been more impressed with NT if it's system requirements hadn't been rediculous.

Re:i knew it

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sorry, but back in the day, I tried to use PC-DOS. I tried to use QEMM. I tried to use DesqView. They were all uniformly terrible. Comparatively, the equivalent product offerings by Microsoft (MS-DOS, EMM386, Windows) were best-of-breed. My computer still crashed alot back then, but compared to its performance when using the alternatives it was a paragon of stability and speed.

Let's not try to rewrite history and claim that Microsoft lied, cheated and stole their way to the top from the get-go. In the beginning, they actually did more than a few things better than their competition, even if only because their competition was so hopelessly incompetent that it would have required a concerted effort to do worse.

As I remember it, the monopoly came to them, because nobody *wanted* to use anything else. A fairly important distiction, if you ask me.

Re:i knew it

[kylef]

Eh, NT is based of VMS, it's not from scratch. period.

The "similarities" between NT and VMS have been completely overblown. There are very few, and they are shared by just about any modern OS.

When you hire DEC engineers to architect a new product from scratch, you are going to see SOME similarities in the architecture with VMS. But that does NOT mean that the new product is "derived"!

I challenge you to put your OS architecture knowledge where your mouth is. Tell me all about the "derived" features that proves NT is a derivative of VMS and nothing more. I'll be waiting with bated breath.

Re:i knew it

[Anonymous Coward]

That kinda ruins your theory right away doesn't it. If Microsoft didn't do it better, just marketed it better, it means someone else did it better without getting the world domination....
So in the end, it is about marketing, at least in our days.

Here is the text...

[AmigaAvenger]

what is the purpose of having registration on the NYT site anyway?? here is the text...

You gave Linux, the operating system, to the world free, in effect jump-starting the open-source movement. Now this previously obscure company, SCO Group, claims ownership of some of the code and threatens to close the door on open source and Linux. I suppose it's to be expected that when you send your offspring out into the world, you have to be prepared for your kid to run with a crowd you don't approve of.

Oh, Linux has grown up, and it's running with a crowd that I certainly never expected, like I.B.M. and Hewlett-Packard. That's not the issue. SCO is claiming parenthood of that child and now wants to make money off the earnings of that child. Even though SCO has refused to undergo the technical equivalent of DNA testing, and even though my (and other people's) DNA is probably all over Linux.

So does this issue matter to you personally?

I've tried to stay away from distractions. But especially since they have started threatening to send invoices to Linux users, it may eventually escalate to the point where I have to start taking legal steps.

Is file-sharing, which has the recording industry so up in arms, the ''dark side'' of open-source attitudes?

Sharing is certainly not bad in itself. In open source, we feel strongly that to really do something well, you have to get a lot of people involved. What the recording industry is so worried about is obviously something totally different -- the ''sharing'' of stuff that isn't yours to share in the first place.

O.K. So what are your views on sharing music files?

I don't actually think about it much; I listen to the radio if I listen to music. What I do find interesting is how the file-sharing thing ends up changing how people think about computers and copyright law. Some of it is a bit scary: just the fact that your question equated sharing with something bad is a pretty scary statement in itself. What also bothers me is the apparent dishonesty of especially the R.I.A.A., claiming that file-sharing is destroying their business and that they are losing billions of dollars on it. There's been a number of studies done, and it looks like the major reason for the dip in CD sales ends up being lack of interest in the music produced. And let's face it -- how many boy bands can you try to sell before your revenues start dipping?

We've been getting hit with a lot of viruses and worms lately. What's your idea for ending the attacks?

When you have people who hook up these machines that weren't designed for the Internet, and they don't even want to know about all the intricacies of network security, what can you expect? We get what we have now: a system that can be brought down by a teenager with too much time on his hands. Should we blame the teenager? Sure, we can point the finger at him and say, ''Bad boy!'' and slap him for it. Will that actually fix anything? No. The next geeky kid frustrated about not getting a date on Saturday night will come along and do the same thing without really understanding the consequences. So either we should make it a law that all geeks have dates -- I'd have supported such a law when I was a teenager -- or the blame is really on the companies who sell and install the systems that are quite that fragile.

Since you moved to Silicon Valley from Finland in 1997, how has the region's aggressive approach to money-making affected you?

Oh, how I hate that question. I've actually found the image of Silicon Valley as a hotbed of money-grubbing tech people to be pretty false, but maybe that's because the people I hang out with are all really engineers. They came here because this is where the action is. You go out for dinner, and all the tables are filled with engineers talking about things that won't be available to ''normal people'' for a few years. If ever.

People position you as the nemesis to Bill Gates. He started Microsoft and you started Lin

Re:Here is the text...

[Anonymous Coward]

I've notified NYT that you've posted their copyrighted works illegally. I'm sure ./ will have to remove your post after they receive a cease and desist order. The registration is in place to protect the NYT's property, not for you to smile at while you circumvent it.

Re:Here is the text...

[AmishSlayer]

I've notified NYT that you've posted their copyrighted works illegally. I'm sure ./ will have to remove your post after they receive a cease and desist order. The registration is in place to protect the NYT's property, not for you to smile at while you circumvent it.

lol... I haven't laughed that hard in a very long time

Re:Here is the text...

[Bored Huge Krill]

can somebody please explain to me why this was modded down? The post makes a perfectly correct, and fair point. I don't see any redundancy in pointing it out *each* and *every* time somebody pulls this crap.

Please, people, you're giving us a bad name. I wince every time I hear somebody say something like "Linux people don't respect copyrights". I do. Please don't give anybody reasons to think otherwise. Posting copyrighted material here just because "registrations suck" is utterly, completely, inexcusable, and you should be ashamed of yourself if you think it's ok

Krill

Re:Here is the text...

[ovit]

But a lot of Linux people really DONT have any respect for copyrights.

Tony

Re:Here is the text...

[Anonymous Coward]

wish you to be modded up, my man.

Re:Here is the text...

[Bored Huge Krill]

But a lot of Linux people really DONT have any respect for copyrights.

I think it depends who you class as "Linux people". There are, for sure, two classes of people here, and one of them doesn't respect copyrights. I don't think that includes any of the contributors, and it certainly doesn't include me. It just makes me really mad when anybody does this.

Krill

Re:Here is the text...

[rusty0101]

NYT registration has absolutely no impact on protecting NYT property. It is there purely as a tool to gather data about their readers.

The data it collects includes demographics based upon certian suppositions, including the number of computers you have contact with in different IP address ranges, and the frequency with witch you read online. This data is converted into information that the NYT uses to sell advertizing space to their advertizers.

If the NYT wanted to protect their copyrights you would be required to have a _Payed_for_ registration that you would have to log into, the content would only be available in an encrypted format and you would have to actually read it with an application that is distributed either by the NYT, or by a vendor that they use to provide that service.

Then again, perhaps your entire post was a really bad attempt at humor.

-Rusty

Re:Here is the text...

[SwellJoe]

If the NYT wanted to protect their copyrights you would be required to have a _Payed_for_ registration that you would have to log into, the content would only be available in an encrypted format and you would have to actually read it with an application that is distributed either by the NYT, or by a vendor that they use to provide that service.

That's a subtle troll, right?

So, if we wanted SCO to respect the copyright on the Linux kernel, we'll have to do all of that?

And if I write an article on my website, and I don't want others to republish the article on their website under their own copyright banner, I have to jump through those hoops, too?

How about the books at the library? If they didn't want us republishing them, they would encrypt them, right?

Yeah...That was definitely a troll.

Re:Here is the text...

[Max Threshold]

Back to the 20th Century with you! Shoo!

Re:Here is the text...

[sTalking_Goat]

you're right mod him back up so we can all laugh heartily. I'd like to see NYT start a battle to have no hopes of winning in the longterm.

Re:Here is the text...

[Anonymous Coward]

You've got to be kidding...GNU/Linux's "copyright" is not really a copyright at all, unless you think that giving people credit for their work somehow constitutes copyright.

Remember what the open source "copyright" is all about...ensuring that the code will always be available to anyone to do whatever they want with it! (with the one proviso above). The open source version is actually the opposite of the copyright examples that you have cited...how can you claim that they are equal?

Re:Here is the text...

[Bored Huge Krill]

Irrelevant. The fact is, that is the terms they set for their license. It is up to them, as the copyright holders, to set those terms. Just as authors who choose to license their copyrighted works under the GPL choose terms which some find unfathomable or unnecessary.

If you are the author, it's up to you. If you're not, you can either accept their terms or not read the article or use the software.

If you don't like it, write your own damn articles or your own damn software. Just don't think you can ignore their terms because you don't like them

Krill

Re:Here is the text...

[router]

exactly. its not like everyone here doesn't use the random generator anyway; its probably to their benefit that we don't dirty their database and just read the fucking article.

andy

Re:Here is the text...

[Spetiam]

commercial data mining, that's the purpose

Re:Here is the text...

[Holi]

Krill, you are either the most intelligent troll, or a person who understands both copyright and GPL. Damnit people if you want to read the article (and from the amount of NYT articles posted to /. I can guess we all do) then follow their rules. If I wrote an article and wanted, as payment, to collect info about what you read then guess what that's my right. if you don't like it fine by me but don't think that it's alright for you to read it. If you think differently then go work for SCO.

Re:Here is the text...

[mcrbids]

what is the purpose of having registration on the NYT site anyway??

By requiring a login/pw, NYT gets a "copyright protection device" and therefore gives them the additional weight of the DMCA against anybody who copies their material.

You sir, are in fact of law, providing a "Copyright Protection Circumvention Device" actionable under the DMCA by posting this on /. - did you think of that?

Re:Here is the text...

[Bored Huge Krill]

agree. And no, I'm not a troll... :-)

Krill

Re:Here is the text...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's their copyright. Granted. And distribution is their privilege. They can elect to distribute to you under the condition that you agree to their conditions.

Not all agreements are permissible though. They must have a permissible object. Collecting personal information is not necessarily a permissible object.

Re:Here is the text...

[PD]

The way I see it, they put up an ad on my computer for a "South Beach diet", so it's fair.

How the hell did they do that? I've got my popups in mozilla turned off, but still I got a popup with an ad.

Re:Here is the text...

[ZvlvLord]

Hey it takes a few seconds to create an account. Look, if you're going to do something, *just do it*. Don't got inventing reasons for doing it, AFTER the fact. Just copy/paste the frigging article and don't say anything. We'll understand that you're a Karma Whore or that you do not care about copyright issues and wish you the best of luck and that will be it. It's not like you'll be the 1st or last one on Slashdot. *smile* However when you start opening your mouth about registration not being needed, you're simply insulting my intelligence ('ours' as some might think while reading this). Please be so kind as to not perceive this as an attack on your person, but more as an attack on your intelligence, or the way you treat fellow slashdotters.

Now look here, there's been many many many times when I was really happy that someone pasted an NYT articles because I either couldn't remember my ID and didn't have any. It's just that opening sentence of your comment which I found annoying. Take care.

Re:Here is the text...

[inode_buddha]

Funny thing, I use GNU/Linux exclusively *because* I respect copyrights. Thank you for posting that. It says what I was feeling much more clearly than anything I would have posted ATM.

And no, I didn't RTFA, but I will go to the corner and get the paper copy.

Re:Here is the text...

[Anonymous Coward]

Posting copyrighted material here just because "registrations suck" is utterly, completely, inexcusable, and you should be ashamed of yourself if you think it's ok

I'll bite. If I honestly think that posting copyrighted material is ok because "registrations suck" why should I feel ashamed?
Because I think wrong?

Re:Here is the text...

[g051051]

I agree. I think that the law should be respected, or changed. The same applies to copying software or music.

I simply refuse to sign up for the NYT web site. Every time a link to a NYT shows up in /. I get frustrated. I'd prefer it if /. simply didn't link to "registration required" sites. That's just my preference, however. Everyone has their own morals and must act accordingly. I just wish more people would ignore these "registration required" sites.

P.S. The other explanation for the userid/pw is demographics and advertising. Assuming you fill out the demographic stuff correctly, they get to target advertising more "effectively". Also, they can wave the userid/pw lists at advertisers and say "We want to charge you $$$ because of all of these people who come to our site".

Re:Here is the text...

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck you.

A) you didn't complain because you`re just a mouthy prick
B) I wouldn't be bothered registering - i tried `slashdot/slashdot` so i just came here and searched for `test` and found it pretty quick
C) NYTimes isn't going to sue Slashdot, ever
D) Slashdot will NOT be required to pull the OP.
D) Get a life.

Re:Here is the text...

[Samhain]

Perhaps it is because some of us don't believe in the same things as you do and actually consider copyright to be bad.

Re:Here is the text...

[Anonymous Coward]

No, you ignorant fuck, it's not about copyright protection. By your feeble reasoning, CNN has inadequate copyright protection because they post articles on cnn.com without registration requirements. The only way that copying a NYT article to Slashdot could even remotely be construed as an affront to coypyrights is if the poster did not credit NYT or if the poster changed the text.

As others have noted, it's about information gathering. They want demographics numbers pertaining to the visitors to their site. What they do with this demographic information is not certain. Advertising is the most likely answer.

Re:Here is the text...

[mcrbids]

No, you ignorant fuck

Spoken like a true genius. It takes real intelligence to provide us all with such profundity and splendor!

If it means anything, as a sysadmin, I've been served with a DMCA request because a client was doing as the original poster did - copying materials and displaying them where the materials were protected by a trivially obtainable login/pw.

The only way that copying a NYT article to Slashdot could even remotely be construed as an affront to coypyrights is if the poster did not credit NYT or if the poster changed the text.

Let's see - copyright belongs to the author. "A copyright provides its holder several exclusive rights to control the reproduction, import and export of a work of authorship.".

Copyrights protect, among other thing, the the GPL: "Proprietary software developers use copyright to take away the users' freedom; we use copyright to guarantee their freedom."

Perhaps you should read 10 Big Myths about copyright explained?

You know, I can't believe I've written this much in reply to a post as lame as this one....

Re:Here is the text...

[jonbrewer]

what is the purpose of having registration on the NYT site anyway?? here is the text...

It certainly helps the Times to track which users are interested in which articles. Since I registered for their site in 1996 I've only seen the technology coverage get better. Never had any spam from them either.

Re:Here is the text...

[Anonymous Coward]

Spoken like a true genius. It takes real intelligence to provide us all with such profundity and splendor!

Actually, I spoke like a man with a spine. My derisive tone was due to the whiney nature of your original post: DMCA violation!!!! Copyright circumvention!!!! Fear!!!!

It's pussies like you that will allow legislative crap like the DMCA to persist. Go ahead, continue being a submissive slave to your Washington masters; the rest of us will resist and chage the laws because we will not acquiesce.

If it means anything, as a sysadmin, I've been served with a DMCA request because a client was doing as the original poster did - copying materials and displaying them where the materials were protected by a trivially obtainable login/pw.

Hasty generalization. Was this client posting a NYT article to slashdot? No? Then don't assume that NYT will do the same. Besides....so what? I guess you would've opposed Rosa Parks' actions, based on your line of reasoning.

Perhaps you should read 10 Big Myths about copyright explained?

You're just a chicken-shit aren't you? Even this author can only claim that posting a NYT article so that your readers don't have to register may be a copyright violation. In our case, the article was posted for a bunch of geeks so that they could comment on one of their heroes' interviews. This clearly falls under fair use. What's that? You're not so sure about that? Good. That means it's not clearly defined legally, so the courts can decide.

We all know, however, that it's not likely that the courts will ever get involved because NYT doesn't give a shit because they just want demographics numbers. You go ahead and keep your head up your ass and run like a crying little bitch every time something that even remotely appears to be a DMCA violation comes up. You're damaged goods because you got served with one lousy DMCA request. The rest of us slashdotters will continue to be activists and challenge the system when it's wrong.

mirrored, because signups suck

[pizza_milkshake]

www.parseerror.com/mirror/WLN104109.html

Re:mirrored, because signups suck

[Bored Huge Krill]

excuse me? mirrored, because signups suck?

If the NYT chooses to ask for a signup in return for permission to view their copyrighted material, you have two choices:

1. Sign up

2. Don't read the damn article

It isn't remotely ok to decide that you want to read what they wrote and not respect what they ask you for in return. If you don't like it, don't read it. You have no excuse for crap like this, ever.

Krill

Re:mirrored, because signups suck

[buttahead]

look, they offer it for free elsewhere. registration there is merly a suggestion. if they are prepared to defend their copyright, they must make an effort. this is proven in a court of law. bitch at google too if you are so adament.... please send me their response so I can rub it in your face.

Re:mirrored, because signups suck

[r00zky]

If the NYT chooses to ask for a signup in return for permission to view their copyrighted material, you have two choices:

Make it three:
3. Ignore and RTFA

Since NYT is available offline without registration, it's clear that your personal information isn't necessary for them at all. Is just a blatant violation of your privacy.

And now, before continuing reading this article you must fill and submit this form to me:
Name: ______________________
IP number: ____________________
SS number: ____________________
Shoe size: ____________________
Sex: [_]yes [_]no [_]maybe
gf telephone number: ________________

Thanks, now you're being monitorized for fun and profit.

Re:mirrored, because signups suck

[Anonymous Coward]

Man, you really need to get yourself a life.

Re:mirrored, because signups suck

[Anonymous Coward]

"It isn't remotely ok to decide that you want to read what they wrote and not respect what they ask you for in return. If you don't like it, don't read it. You have no excuse for crap like this, ever."

You can't actually expect anyone here to understand this? This is the place that thinks stealing music is a political statement and moral imperative instead of the blatant theft it is.

Re:mirrored, because signups suck

[Archangel_Azazel]

Ban. AC. Posts.

Re:mirrored, because signups suck

[Anonymous Coward]

Your one communist bastard. I aint saying anything until I find my lawyer. This sounds like a trick to me.

You just gotta believe...

[overbyj]

that Linus really does, deep down, really have some serious playa hating towards McBride and crew. He really tries to downplay the SCO thing but let's be honest, if some company run by assholes were trying to totally hijack your baby (Linux), wouldn't you be pissed?

Yeah he says "SCO is smoking crack" but don't you think that he would really like to kick McBride in the balls and when he falls to the ground, spit on him for good measure?

Re:You just gotta believe...

[Anonymous Coward]

Snoop Dog Says:

"Don't hate the playa, hate the game."

The Sharer ...

[xeniten]

looks like he's in dire need of a shave, I have a razor I could lend him.

Re:The Sharer ...

[FrozenDownload]

looks like he's in dire need of a shave, I have a razor I could lend him.

donate it to osdn, they will see it gets to the right place. ;p~

Re:The Sharer ...

[MegaHamsterX]

If anyone needs a shave it's RMS, actually last time I saw him on TV he should have been sheared.

Custody battle?

[dmuth]

>(trying to claim paternity on his child)

For a moment, flashbacks from the movie Twins ran though my mind! Stuff along the lines of: "Kernel 2.4, you were created from the code of many great men, and you have all of their abilities. You can parse 12 languages, run for years without crashing, and even interface with eccentric hardware. You truely are superior to the other kernels."

GAH! *thud*

Re:Custody battle?

[satanami69]

So what OS is Danny DeVito?
.
.
.
.
Huge setup

Re:Custody battle?

[TheCrazyFinn]

Unixware

Re:Custody battle?

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.iter.org/

the proof is in the, erm, pudding....

[commodoresloat]

Did Linux ever wash the blue dress from that night?

Re:Article unavaliable, here is the text

[tetrahedrassface]

exactly but only 3% us even read the article in first place. The rest are blathering fools and psychopaths intent on destroying the fabric of the universe by mindlessly blathering incomprehensible mantras like GNU-STALLMAN over and over and over again.

David Hasselhoff

[Entropy248]

In great Slashdot tradition, I have the article open in another Mozilla tab and holy shit! I've never seen a picture of The Holy One before and my god he looks like David Hasselhoff (after he'd had his face flattened by a bad Photoshop session). No wonder he's having so much trouble talking to others about Linux! What he needs is a really good looking spokesman... I'd suggest Sean Connery. What a Trekster (Trekkie?) dream come true. Open Source + Captain Picard = Mindshare people!

Re:David Hasselhoff

[Torgski]

Umm... Sean Connery was James Bond.

Jean Luc Picard was played by... Patrick Stewart.

I think either of them is a fine choice.... but let's not confuse them =)

Re:David Hasselhoff

[Anonymous Coward]

or not, since Sean Connery isn't Capt. Picard, Patrick Stewart is.

Re:David Hasselhoff

[Weaselmancer]

I've never seen a picture of The Holy One before and my god he looks like David Hasselhoff

I haven't seen a picture of him in a while, and he has changed a bit. I don't think he looks like Knight Rider, but he does look an awful lot like Trey Parker of South Park fame. Same shirt, too.

If you've ever seen Baseketball, just imagine Linus doing the psych-out to BillG and drinking a liposuction at him. Fun!

Re:David Hasselhoff

[code_echelon]

The resemblance between him and Trey Parker is almost disturbing.

Re:David Hasselhoff

[Holi]

question is have you ever seen them in the same room together at the same time.

think about it.

Re:David Hasselhoff

[Emil Brink]

I have, twice (once sitting in the audience when he spoke at a Swedish university, once at a book signing). I still recognize him , but I think he is, um, starting to look a bit more, um integrated into American culture, or something. *Ducks*. ;^)

Re:Kama whore

[Anonymous Coward]

If you want to karma whore, it's easier if you actually include some HTML formatting. ;)

yeah but

[commodoresloat]

how many MSCE's does it take to screw in a light bulb?

None. MS simply declares darkness the new standard.

Re:yeah but

[laslo2]

and of course, that means the lightbulb works sometimes, doesn't work other times, and you don't get to know why.

call it like it is

[Anonymous Coward]

People may agree or disagree with what linus says. some may call him arrogant, but lets face the facts. He calls it as he sees it. Atleast with linus, you know what you're getting. With bill gates you don't. so that's the primary difference for me.

eyes

[peripatetic_bum]

I dont know about you, but the most striking things about the article was his picture. He has extremely bright blue eyes

Open source Dating....

[nlinecomputers]

So either we should make it a law that all geeks have dates -- I'd have supported such a law when I was a teenager

So Linus supports open source dating. Well I can support that but the putting up a girlfriend on CVS for anyone to "contribute" to is just sleezy. On the other hand back in high school there was this girl that might have been the open source poster child...

Re:Open source Dating....

[r_j_howell]

makes me think of a conversation I had with a friend of mine once. him: You know, people keep saying the word "slut" like it's a bad thing. me: That's only hard to understand because you don't know the REAL meaning of the word "slut". him: Oh really, what do YOU think it means? me: A slut is someone who will sleep with anyone...except *me*.

Re:Open source Dating....

[EvilTwinSkippy]

I don't need your phone number baby, I'll just finger you later.

Re:Open source Dating....

[Lost Penguin]

On the other hand back in high school there was this girl that might have been the open source poster child...

We had girls with great names:

One was named "Wood".

(she did, and was proud she did)

We also had a girl named "Liscomb", can you guess how she pronounced it? :)

Re:Open source Dating....

[bmorton]

The greatest thing about that girl is that she lived down the street from me....

Re:Open source Dating....

[buttahead]

dman it... beer out the nose again.

Re:Open source Dating....

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, putting her on CVS is one way of getting the DNA of a lot of people onto/into her..

Re:Open source Dating....

[Anonymous Coward]

Mhmhmhmhmhmhmhm... Natalie Portman.

Re:Open source Dating....

[Orbital Sander]

On the other hand back in high school there was this girl that might have been the open source poster child...

So, did she end up with a lot of open sores?

Re:Open source Dating....

[zoloto]

i thought a slut slept with everyone
and a bitch slept with everyone but you :)

Re:Open source Dating....

[Anonymous Coward]

D0h. Linus, just try yourself and educate other geeks. Who needs a date? Just get a cute mare!

Awesome line

[Kevin DeGraaf]

Wow, the last line cracked me up. My new sig:

Re:Awesome line

[ascalon]

Good thing this was modded as flamebait, his comment was making me pretty mad.

Re:Awesome line

[Kevin DeGraaf]

How in the damned hell was that flamebait?!?

Re:Awesome line

[b17bmbr]

How in the damned hell was that flamebait?!?

because we're in soviet russia, you insensitive clod.

Re:Awesome line

[flashbang]

Yeah really - that line should be released under the GPL for all of us to use before SCO claims it as theirs & charges $6.99. What a sig.

Re:Awesome line

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it's funny how your reply to your own post asking why it was flamebait was modded down as flamebait. Care for round three? -- Seriously, some of these moderators need to slapped to the moon.

Re:Awesome line

[Rick the Red]

That's what MetaMod is for.

Torvalds the Destroyer!

[D.A. Zollinger]

To be a nemesis, you have to actively try to destroy something, don't you? Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect.

Uh-huh. Sure. As unintentional as a bull in a china shop.

Ugly Photo

[JGaiser]

Sorry Linus... But I've seen better mug shots.

Other than that a typical Linus interview. You have to hear him in person to understand *some* of his humor.

Re:Ugly Photo

[oneishy]

Better mug shots?

You obviously have not seen HIS other mug shots. They make the one in the article look pretty good!

Linus Torvalds has very very blue eyes.

[Anonymous Coward]

While obvious to most of you already, his eyes are a very striking blue. . .

Re:Linus Torvalds has very very blue eyes.

[Anonymous Coward]

That's because he's of the Aryan (master) Race.
Also known as Herrenvolk....

Re:Linus Torvalds has very very blue eyes.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's the spice from Dune (Arakkis).

Diamond Dave

[isny]

For a minute, I thought David Lee Roth, a.k.a. Diamond Dave, was giving the interview.
So?? Linus? About this kernel thing? Yow! Are all those distributions guar-ar-ra-ra-ra-ran-teeeeedd... to satisfy?

Re:Diamond Dave

[Anonymous Coward]

*cue Chris Katan impression*

Zigety, bibety, bob!

Re:Diamond Dave

[Sevn]

That's sat-tis-a-fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiyyyyyyyy-yeah!

is Linus really Andy Warhol reincarnated?

[Anonymous Coward]

he really doesn't emotionally involve himself does he?

Re:is Linus really Andy Warhol reincarnated?

[kfg]

" he really doesn't emotionally involve himself does he?"

Once again warming up my best Basil Fawlty:

"It's OK. He's from Finland."

KFG

Re:is Linus really Andy Warhol reincarnated?

[abdulla]

The next Dandy Warhols song, "Not If You Were The Last OS On Earth".

Uhhh.. gross..

[porp]

From the article:

Even though SCO has refused to undergo the technical equivalent of DNA testing, and even though my (and other people's) DNA is probably all over Linux.

Uh, I think I'm gonna format and then go pray.

porp

Let's rephrase

[(void*)]

"Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect."

In other words, Linus doesn't care about the collateral damage! Just like a terrorist! <falsetto> Oh the humanity, someone stop the terrorist!</falsetto>

Re:Let's rephrase

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you even know what falsetto means?

Re:Let's rephrase

[(void*)]

Yes I know. It does not mean "false", but it's frequently used in comedy.

Just to avoid confusion...

[Brian Boitano]

The Interview is from NYT Magazine, not Linus Torvalds.

Define Tactfulness

[CherniyVolk]

From NYT:

Linus - "Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect."

Oh, I love it!

Informative?

[Anonymous Coward]

Putz.

Kids these days

[tetrahedrassface]

linus: Oh, Linux has grown up, and it's running with a crowd that I certainly never expected, like I.B.M. and Hewlett-Packard. __________________________________________________ __ Running with a fast crowd heh? Its funny how fast they grow up... I know iknow.....You blink three times and they are grown. sheeessshhhh

MS distroyed is a _SIDE_ effect

[redelm]

I loved the final quote from Linus: Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect. It really sums up the whole exercise.

Re:Doesn't care enough - exactly

[Anonymous Coward]

commies are a 'comin.......git ur gun!!

Re:Doesn't care enough - exactly

[Anonymous Coward]

What's Linus done for the world? _________

What's Bill Gates done for the world? __http://www.gatesfoundation.org____

If you measure what one has "done" for the world in terms of financial wealth, then please post YOUR contributions to society for all of us to ridicule. But of course you won't. You like to hide behind your false bravado.

Look Man

[Greyfox]

Technology is a fickle mistress. The minute you lose your focus on it, it starts to leave you. Most people just take what they want from it (A lot of money, usually) and then move on to focus on other things. I see a lot of aging programmers with families, content to do the least they can do without getting fired, until such time as their skills are no longer marketable.

Some people want more from technology than a one night stand, more than the brief two or three year period where youthful enthusiasm overcomes the need for comfort in a lonely world. Sure the people who choose that road will mostly die cold and alone in a gutter somewhere, but by god they'll have ridden the lady technology for all she was worth! And, ultimately, isn't that as valid a path as anything else you could choose?

Re:Look Man

[kfg]

"I see a lot of aging programmers with families, content to do the least they can do without getting fired, until such time as their skills are no longer marketable."

To be at least somewhat fair to at least some of these aging programers they have been taught to act like this by the companies they work for.

Remember, most of older guys got into it for technology and the joy of it. There was no money in particular "back in the day." If you didn't do it for the love it there was no reason to do it all.

Get kicked around, treated like shit, turned into a code monkey and generally be made to understand you're a disposable cog in the machine and it's easy to go through the motions, take the checks as long as they last and cover your own ass.

As they say, no one else will.

Most of these guys had young wives, young children and young mortgages before they learned the score and then got stuck.

There are a few of us who have decided it's better to walk the razor's edge, and there is often a price to pay. Fabian Pascal even has trouble just writing and talking about technology these days, let alone getting "a good job" because of his absolute dedication to the technology, rather than buzzword compliant commercial products. RMS is, well. . .RMS. Thompson, Ritchie, Stroustop et al have given us Plan 9. . .and nobody seems to care.

It ain't easy being gree. . .er, a geek.

Although it isn't exactly the path I've chosen for myself I'm not inclined to over criticise those older guys just trying to make it to retirement in one piece.

KFG

Re:Look Man

[thebatlab]

Toss in an analogy of technology as a girlfriend and the geeks shall unite with many a +1 Insightful.

Now every geek shall proclaim loud across the land. "I have a girlfriend!! And her name is technology!"

Not that I don't agree with your post :)

Re:Look Man

[mantera]

And, ultimately, isn't that as valid a path as anything else you could choose?

NO!! it isn't. No amount of technology will change this; regardless of how poor or wealthy you are, regardless of whether it's 2003AD or 10,000BC, regardless of whatever, the best time you'll ever have will be an intimate night with someone you love and who loves you (argh, just realized how cheesy, however true, this sounds).

This is the ultimate dilemma for many; ambition versus the mating/nesting instinct.

Re:Look Man

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the ultimate dilemma for many; ambition versus the mating/nesting instinct.

I solved mine by marrying a girl who could sell what I could create.

Who says engineering types and marketing types don't mix??

Re:Look Man

[MrResistor]

Linus is married and has, IIRC, 4 children.

It's like he's achieved some sort of transendental geek state.

Re:Look Man

[TheOldFart]

Ha! I guess if nothing else, this is a field I AM an expert on. My name above is what it is for a reason. See... I still have the drive, I still work long hours all night long but I do it because this is what keeps me going. I have no problems working with young engineers. They are mostly enthusiastic and that is mutually contagious. I have a special disdain for the marketing types who come and go like flies over a pile of shit. Those who don't have a clue what we produce but are responsible for selling it, transforming all you do into "numbers Wall Street will like" (completely disregarding the merits or what the people who will ultimately buy it want).

My love for technology is an alternative to how I see the world. A world no different than any other point in time. People still kill people because of religion and greed. What's the difference between the Taliban and those radicals Christian coalition types? In other words, I see the world as mostly utterly fucked with very few exceptions. When we specialize in certain aspects of science, we focus our attention into a different world away from the ugly reality out there.

Linus is an ideological leader no matter how you look at it. Even if he doesn't think that way or want it, he has no choice. In a funny way it reminds me of "Life of Brian". I can see him waking up one morning and opening the windows naked to a crowd of crazed followers clamoring for his words.

The problem with this crowd or any other is that there will always be those who want to use it for their own agendas and end up tainting the whole thing in the process (see "Fucked up world with exceptions" above).

What is even funnier is that we, more than any other group on the planet, control every aspect of everyone's life. The power we have as a group is greater than anything else. Nonetheless, we have no cohesion or goals. Just happy little shits doing whatever they tell us... A hear a lot of complain about jobs going out to India for instance. A recent interview with Scott McNeally was quite open (and extremely insulting in the process) about it. But what do we, as a group do? Sit with our collective thumbs stuck up our collective asses.

Blah... I'm mumbling...

Re:Look Man

[nyseal]

I would tend to agree but being an engineer you should learn VERY slowly the quickest way between two points is NOT always a straight line; especially in the IT world. Engineers pretty much depend on the functions of IT personnel to the extent of installing their software correctly and keeping the data safe because they have no choice. Given the opportunity, Engineers would be more secure about their own data than trusting it to an outside source. IT can ride whatever wave they want.....but it's the good old floppy or CD that TRULY keeps the data secure.

Re:Look Man

[nyseal]

And by your own words and inaction you prove the world is right. That in itself is worthy of criticism.

Re:Look Man

[Greg Lindahl]

You have the quote wrong:

Under Capitalism, man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the other way around.

Man != man.

Re:Look Man

[acebone]

Just curious what's the difference between man and Man (except for the case of the first letter) ?

Re:Look Man

[Anonymous Coward]

So how many times must great programmers be kicked in the balls before they get cynical?

What are they supposed to do? Change the system? Ha!

The only recourse they have is to build their own company, and when the do, then they have to be business people first and engineers second (otherwise the company folds very quickly).

BTW, how big is your mortgage? How many mouths do YOU have to feed? Can you really afford to be fired or first in line for layoffs for you pragmatism? Hmmm?

Re:Look Man

[StenD]

'Man' refers to humanity as a whole, while 'man' refers to unspecified individuals.

Re:Look Man

[MrResistor]

Actually, it works either way. The point is that there is no real difference between capitalism and communism, the end results are the same. Men exploit other men for personal gain. The only difference is the official titles of the few who end up on top.

Really, that's true of any socio-economic system. Capitalism and communism are simply the most popular ones lately, and people have been fond of argueing that they're somehow different. Clearly they are not, which is the entire point of the quote.

Re:Look Man

[Greg Lindahl]

Actually, it works either way.

If you say so. The way you have it (all lower case), I think you look like an idiot, so that's probably not the usual definition of "works".

Re:Look Man

[MrResistor]

Capitalizing either of them would change my intended meaning. I know exactly what I meant to say, and that meaning is properly conveyed the way I have written it.

You're the one trying to force my statement into the meaning you want. I say that makes you the idiot.

Re:Look Man

[Greg Lindahl]

But your intended meaning is gibberish. If that's what you're aiming at, I guess that does work.

Carry on!

Re:Look Man

[MrResistor]

No, you've just failed your reading comprehension.

Re:small joke

[Anonymous Coward]

How many Linux dorks does it take to screw in a light bulb?

0. Not only would Linux dorks scoff at the idea of using an accepted standard, but they prefer to be in the dark anyway, bathed only in the light from their computer monitor as they spend yet another Friday night alone.

And, naturally, you posted this on Friday at 7:59pm. [What?] Is that your mom I hear calling you from upstairs? Is it your bedtime already?

parent post is funny, not a troll

[Anonymous Coward]

made me laugh, anyway.

Those email-harvesting links are annoying, NYT or not.

Re:Doesn't care enough - exactly

[Anonymous Coward]

Those who take alot from the world have the moral responsibility to at least give a little back to society no?

Re:HElloe

[Anonymous Coward]

cough......um you arent drinking moonshine perchance?

*sigh*

[Anonymous Coward]

When I see things like this:

You gave Linux, the operating system, to the world free, in effect jump-starting the open-source movement.

I'm reminded how clueless 'journalists' are.

What kind of 'ra ra Linux' fanboy would think the above and ignore the history of gcc, alt/comp.*.source.* et la?

Re:*sigh*

[Z4rd0Z]

When I see things like this:

You gave Linux, the operating system, to the world free, in effect jump-starting the open-source movement.

I'm reminded how clueless 'journalists' are.

What kind of 'ra ra Linux' fanboy would think the above and ignore the history of gcc, alt/comp.*.source.* et la?

Precisely. I'm sending you to report this to Lord Stallman personally. And take this bottle of patchouli to him as a token of respect.

Re:*sigh*

[bukharin]

When I see things like this [snip David Diamond's gushing question] I'm reminded how clueless 'journalists' are.

Yeah, what would David Diamond know about Linus and Linux? After all, he only co-authored Linus's book

Re:*sigh*

[mrd_yaddayadda]

I don't see a single thing wrong with the comment about Linux jump starting open source.

I had never heard of it before Linux. I hadn't heard of GNU.

I think you'll find that 99% of Joe Public who has heard of Linux would stare blankly at you if you asked about GNU.

Hence, the comment about it jump starting the open source movement is quite probably very accurate.

Re:Doesn't care enough - exactly

[Anonymous Coward]

You really don't get it? Bill gates only "gives" money if it will boost his cash flow. So he gives money to some school here and there so now he looks like a "good" guy and wow isn't that nice. Or how about "give" some software to the local Library that was nice, but now any one that uses that software is locked in. I see it all the time some student at my work comes in and says "I have an Apple at home..." and I have to say "sorry we only run windows here". Now as for what has Linus given the world? How about the right to choose what OS we want to run or if we want to tweak the kernel and make it what we want? The real question that I would love to here you answer is "How does windows work?"

Oh and if you haven't notice this is a Linux news/fourm site so when you say stuff like that your going to get the lable "Flamebait"

Re:Crackpipe Moderators

[Anonymous Coward]

i love that band...they had pinache

bad html! [smack with ruler]

[bodrell]

Jeez, how hard is it to include a closing tag for italics? I mean [less than]/i[greater than] And how do I write html source in a /. posting? Someone want to write the NY Times and tell them to fix it? I'm too lazy.

Re:bad html! [smack with ruler]

[chgros]

Just use:
&lt;
&gt;
Example:
&lt;/i&gt;
==>
</i>

Re:bad html! [smack with ruler]

[Snowdrake]

(disclaimer: yes, this is offtopic, and I've even got mod points right now, if I wanted to post as an AC and mod myself down. 'Course, that would leave it at -1 and pointless...)

Quick HTML primer for /.:

• <tt> gives you the monospaced "typewriter" look.
• &lt; for a left bracket/less-than. (<)
• &gt; for a right bracket/greater-than. (>)
• &amp; for an ampersand. (&)

There's also a quickie list of allowed HTML bits below the entry box. Depending on the look you're after, use of the "HTML Formatted" option is sometimes also helpful.

Re:HElloe

[Snowspinner]

Oh, please, let me metamoderate this one...

Re:Doesn't care enough - exactly

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows really only work when you can open them. we Already Know They are closed@!

Mod parent up, mod moderator down

[jerryasher]

The registration is there because the NYTimes wants it there. The copyright is theirs.

The GPL depends on copyright.

Don't infringe on copyright. Fair use is not the reposting of the entire article, especially when the registration makes it plain the NYTimes does not want it reposted.

And what is with the moderators modding that down?

Re:Mod parent up, mod moderator down

[Simonetta]

The registration is there because the NYTimes wants it there. The copyright is theirs.
The GPL depends on copyright.
Don't infringe on copyright. Fair use is not the reposting of the entire article, especially when the registration makes it plain the NYTimes does not want it reposted

With all respect, this is bullshit!

The New York Times is the newspaper of record for the American empire. Words appear there in order to be read, by the citizens of the empire and its subjects.

They published it ... We're reading it.

The New York Times has never explained WHY they require a registration for reading from the net the articles that are available on every newstand and every library in the country. They just demand it.
Every demand from a corporate entity for personal information deserves an explanation of why this information is being collected and for what purposes it will be used. The fact that they are not charging for their web access only accentuates their need to be straightforward in regards to their demand for personal information from their readers.

(and yes, I do consider my name to be personal information, thank you)

Re:Mod parent up, mod moderator down

[Anonymous Coward]

The NY Times has posted their article in plain text on the web. That is a media designed for easy data transfer over a protocol designed for global information sharing. They should hardly have reason to complain that people should want to do with their content what is implicit in the way it is published.

If you want to take advantage of the web, play by its rules. Otherwise get the fuck off it and go back to pushing dead trees.

Barriers to information on the web inherently subvert its purpose and deserve to be routed around.

Re:Mod parent up, mod moderator down

[Anonymous Coward]

With all respect, your post is bullshit!

Ford is the auto maker of record for the American empire. Cars are produced in order to be driven, by the drivers of the empire and its subjects.

They create them ... we're driving them.

Ford has never explained WHY they require payment for driving the cars that are available on every dealer's lot and every rental agency in the country. They just demand it.

Every demand from a corporate entity for financial compensation deserves an explanation of why this compensation is being collected and for what purposes it will be used. The fact that they provide separate licenses for certain retailers and dealerships only accentuates their need to be straightforward in regards to their demand for compensation from their readers.

Yada yada yada. Their rules, not yours.

BTW, ever considering registering with a fake name and email address? Think about it.

Re:Mod parent up, mod moderator down

[Space Sku]

I'll give you something for free if you tell me things about yourself.

isn't that just frinking creepy?

screw 'em

Re:Mod parent up, mod moderator down

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow.. your ability to mix concepts is truly frightening.

Ford sells cars. You must pay Ford to purchase a car. To take a car and deny Ford the compensation is a crime.

NYT sells newspapers. You can either purchase a paper for 25 cents (or whatever their daily costs) in order to personally dispose of your copy, or you can read a shared copy of it in a library for free. NEITHER of these mediums require a registration, nor should they. The library is not guilty of stealing (or conversion) by making a copy of the newspaper available for all readers.

If you take the NYT article and pass it off as your own work, *THAT* is stealing. Re-posting is not (think library). No one has the right to demand your personal information as recompense for a service or product.

Re:Mod parent up, mod moderator down

[Bored Huge Krill]

Wow.. your ability to mix concepts is truly frightening. Ford sells cars. You must pay Ford to purchase a car. To take a car and deny Ford the compensation is a crime. NYT sells newspapers. You can either purchase a paper for 25 cents (or whatever their daily costs) in order to personally dispose of your copy, or you can read a shared copy of it in a library for free. NEITHER of these mediums require a registration, nor should they. The library is not guilty of stealing (or conversion) by making a copy of the newspaper available for all readers. If you take the NYT article and pass it off as your own work, *THAT* is stealing. Re-posting is not (think library). No one has the right to demand your personal information as recompense for a service or product.

bullshit. They have the right to ask whatever they want in return for your being able to read that which they produce at a non-zero cost.

You have the right to refuse to accept their terms, should you so choose.

You absolutely, positively, definitely, do not have the right to refuse their terms but think it is ok to read it anyway

Krill

Re:Mod parent up, mod moderator down

[canadian_right]

And why do they need to explain "why"?

Its their site, their words, their copyright. Honest people should not be copying others copyrighted works. If you don't want to register - then don't. Just don't whine about not getting your "free" news.

As to "why", it is my guess the number of registered users affects the rates paid for their online adds.

Re:Mod parent up, mod moderator down

[Bored Huge Krill]

if you think it's "creepy" don't read the article. But don't think you can read it anyway of you don't like the terms.

The reason they ask for registration is to provide statistics for advertisers, which is how they pay their costs.

Krill

Re:Mod parent up, mod moderator down

[nyseal]

Blech.....The National Enquirer is the MAJOR reporter of any important news. Sheesh.

Re:Mod parent up, mod moderator down

[linzeal]

There are such things as honest thieves, ya know? Being a thief does not automatically make one a lier.

Re:Mod parent up, mod moderator down

[xeno-cat]

"The reason they ask for registration is to provide statistics for advertisers, which is how they pay their costs."

You keep using this example, but are you sure that that is the real and only reason? How do you know that they don't sell our personal info into slavery at information clearing houses around the world? That would be a pretty steep price to pay simly to read something "on the web".

Whatever they do with the personal info I agree that if they don't want to share their "information of record" than screw 'em. The NYT's is a rag anyway. I can't say this "interview" with Linus is really worth all the fus. They did'nt ask any quetion I did'nt already know the answer to, nothing insightfull.

By the way, boston.com does just fine without requireing registration and they were purchased by NYT. They don't even have a print edition ( no, they are not the online Boston Globe ).

Kind Regards

Re:Mod parent up, mod moderator down

[Anonymous Coward]

>The New York Times... in order to be read, by the citizens of the empire and its subjects.

I see it's too late to stop the madness of George W Bush.

You sir, may be a *subject* however *I* still consider myself a CITIZEN.

There is a world of difference.

( As an aside, if the NYT were still controlled by "liberals" I bet it would have the archives available. I mean, what would be MORE FUN than emailing links to conservative friends, of the 1980's articles where Donald Rumsfeld sold Anthrax and West Nile to Iraq? The irony and hypocracy would be so sweet :-)

It's sad they are so corporate now. The Internet is a huge library, and it's a pity I can't access 1-year old articles from the NYT... unless I go to the damn library, and locate the microfilm...

Re:Mod parent up, mod moderator down

[babyrat]

The New York Times has never explained WHY they require a registration for reading from the net the articles that are available on every newstand and every library in the country. They just demand it.

Did you ever ask?

From their site...

If you have further questions about registration or the site in general, contact Customer Service.

NYT Customer Info (No Reg Required)

Re:Mod parent up, mod moderator down

[angle_slam]

There is another purpose to reposting an entire article. It allows the slashdot thread to live on in the archives. Have you ever searched Slashdot and found a 6 month old thread, only to find the linked to article doesn't exist anymore. I hate when that happens. And, because the article is being reposted for comment purposes, the Fair use argument is not as slam dunk as you make it out to be.

Paternity on his child?

[Saint Stephen]

Am I the only one who read this and wondered when Linus got divorced and got into a custody battle for his kids?

[not trying to make light of that -- making light of my misreading]

Re:Paternity on his child?

[jvollmer]

when Linus got divorced and got into a custody battle for his kids?
Let's keep in mind that Tove could kick his ass.

If it's not Consolidated Lint, it's just fuzz!

Worst Interview Ever!

[m33p]

agh!

Re:Worst Interview Ever!

[Z4rd0Z]

It's the same as every other Linus interview.

Journalist: What are your feelings on the success of Linux?

Linus: I don't really care.

Rinse, lather, repeat.

simmer down

[Anonymous Coward]

quit running your mouth

Re:Doesn't care enough - exactly

[jvollmer]

Oh hell! I'm pretty sure that I give a larger percentage of my yearly income to charities than Bill does.

If it's not Consolidated Lint, it's just fuzz!

Not an impressive interview.

[pair-a-noyd]

Hey, I like the "They're smoking crack." interview MUCH better..

Really, this was just a Q&A on how Linus "feels" about a few issues. There are no heavy hitting questions asked nor answered.

I wish there had been something more interesting that might have prodded people to investigate and hopefully switch to Linux.

Quite bland if you ask me, however, his closing statement made it all worth reading the rest;

I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect."

Linus, you *are* the man!

Re:Not an impressive interview.

[Anonymous Coward]

C'mon, it is the Times. What do you expect, probing questions? Quality journalism? That, I'm afraid, is the old NY Times.

MEEPT!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Does he still control which bits go into the kernel?

If so, then maybe legally, he's responsible for any infringments. And he owns the trademark as well.

I wouldn't be so comfortable if I were him.

MEEPT!! (etc. etc.)

the winners write the history

[Anonymous Coward]

So what else is new? It has always been this way, and will always be this way.

It's voila

[SysKoll]

you just do it better and viola', world domination.

It's voila, you insensitive clod! Viola is a music instrument. Or an admission you viola-te spelling.

SCO

[Lost Penguin]

There was a warped man from Utah.
He stole, by the twist of the law.
Linux it seems,
Was the stuff of his dreams.
And he prattled along at the jaw.

good answer

[kraksmoka]

mad props to linus on this one. windoze has a problem right now. tho they have improved, their systems are so vulnerable to mass attack, that they have an image problem that is truly persistent now. i like the "unintended consequence" remark.

funny title, eh? the sharer, ha.

the 50th angle

[civilengineer]

Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect.

I know atleast 50 people have posted their opinion on the same line. Here's my angle. I would not want MS destroyed, period. That would end up being a total utter disaster for the world. What should happen inturn is that due to increasing competition from OSS, MS should adapt and improve. They should get more aggresive on innovation and diversify into various fields where their already existing talents and resources can be used without interfering with other players illegitimately. Meanwhile OSS should also improve rapidly to provide alternatives and induce change in the world.

Re:the 50th angle

[frank_adrian314159]

I would not want MS destroyed, period. That would end up being a total utter disaster for the world.

Really? Why? Granted, there might be a few minor economic and (possibly, though highly unlikely) some technological impacts, I see absolutely nothing to suggest that it would be a global disaster.

Global deflation is a disaster. A meteor hitting earth is a disaster. A tidal wave wiping out a village is a disaster (for significant size value of village :-). But some company going tits up? Well, sucks to be them (and their stockholders, I guess). It's all part of the beauty of Capitalism. At least that's what all the Libertarians around here keep telling me. And they can't be wrong, huh?

Re:the 50th angle

[civilengineer]

in the long run, if things happened slowly, yes, there would not be a dissat Assume, within the next one year MS says its done doing business and its not doing anything more. And bill gates retires and dissolves MS. First up there will be no support for existing windows installations. Are there really better alternatives 'today' ?(sounds like flaimbait but its not. Anyone will agree that windows is the best OS 'today', or 'this year'). Then it would be all up to linux which has still a long way to go.But, there will be heavy investment in linux then, so it will catch up sooner or later. But, in the meantime, the lost productivity and problems caused by this abrupt change will push the whole world back by 5-10 years. (Well, maybe if not a pushback there will be stagnation).
This will have a higher impact than a village disappearing. Capitalism is beautiful, agreed, but it has to work its way slowly. Rapid negative changes (like a hypothetical MS evaporation) will cause 'disasters'.

Re:the 50th angle

[Anonymous Coward]

No, I think people like Bill Gates should be expunged from the Universe. He would like to personally control every facet of the technology that you and I take for granted. His track record is NOT one of benevolence.

Bill and Microsoft need to pay for their repeated sins. The price is death.

Re:the 50th angle

[Feztaa]

Anyone will agree that windows is the best OS 'today', or 'this year'

Ummmmm... I don't.

this abrupt change will push the whole world back by 5-10 years. (Well, maybe if not a pushback there will be stagnation).

You mean like the stagnation we've been suffering through for the last 5-10 years? Has windows really changed much since Win95?

Re:the 50th angle

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone will agree that windows is the best OS 'today', or 'this year'

That's the stupidest thing I've read in a long time. Windows is the best OS for a rapidly shrinking class of applications. It is certainly not the most technologically advanced or the best choice for most applications.

Re:the 50th angle

[Daniel Phillips]

I would not want MS destroyed, period. That would end up being a total utter disaster for the world.

You're on crack. It would be the best thing that ever happened to accelerate the progress of personal computer software, with spinoff benefits to commerce, security and quality of life.

Microsoft is now and always has been, a net loss for society.

Re:the 50th angle

[Queuetue]

You should stop saying "best". I do not think it means what you think it means.

Slowly and quietly overcoming opression sucks. I say blow the dam and I'll happily stand by to pick up the pieces - so would a lot of of the guys here.

Re:Doesn't care enough - exactly

[Anonymous Coward]

Bill gates only "gives" money if it will boost his cash flow

I believe tax breaks are not that bad, either.

Still, he can suck my dick, I'm much happier person than he'll ever be.

quotes you'd rather not read

[Gojira Shipi-Taro]

David Diamond drills Linus

Honestly, that's a visual I could have done without...

So much distortion in so few words.

[jbn-o]

From the article's first question:

"You gave Linux, the operating system, to the world free, in effect jump-starting the open-source movement."

First, Linux is not an operating system and it never was. What Linus Torvalds began was a kernel -- a necessary and valuable portion of a complete GNU/Linux operating system, but not the entirety of it. Linux is now being collectively developed by many people around the world, including Torvalds. In 1984, Richard Stallman began working on GNU years before Torvalds began working on what would become Linux. Many people would join Stallman and develop that operating system. Second, According to the Open Source Initiative, the Open Source movement was a reaction to Netscape releasing the source code for its web browser. It was this act that "jump-start[ed]" the Open Source movement. The people who started that movement did so in 1998, seven years after Torvalds released Linux.

Re:So much distortion in so few words.

[Anonymous Coward]

You're right -- Linux isn't an operating system. It's a trademark, a brandname.

If the owner of the trademark wishes to licence it to companies who make Operating Systems, spreadsheets, or dotcom stock scams, that's his business.

DNA

[Dan Farina]

Avoid linux programmer mangoo, use *BSD today!

Because the DNA comparison was just too good to be ignored.

Fabian Pascal...

[Anonymous Coward]

is one of my heroes! I've read several pieces on his site, www.dbdebunk.com, that made me completely rethink my opinion about an issue, and his disdain for XML is a welcome relief from the hype machine.

He's one of the people I'd give money, if I were rich.

Did Linux lose weight?

[Anonymous Coward]

Did he lose weight or is that picture very old?

Down with M$

[code_echelon]

"Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect."
Sounds good.

s/linux/linus/;

[Anonymous Coward]

D'oh! My Bad...

Whaddatypotomako!

Re:Linus has a great bottom line

[EvilTwinSkippy]

Sages do not display themselves, therefore they are illuminated.
They do not define themselves, therefore they are distinguished.
They do not make claims, therefore they are credited.
They do not boast, therefore they advance.
Since, indeed, they do not compete, the world cannot compete with them.

Loa Tsu, Chapter 22, The Tao Te Ching

I do NOT agree...

[krahd]

Linus says "or the blame is really on the companies who sell and install the systems that are quite that fragile" arguing that we should not blame the poor geeky guy who fires a virus for not getting a date (!).

Why this kind of forgiveness applies only to computer related crimes? If this lonely guy chooses to start driving his car and crushing people... should we blame the car's manufacturer??

--krahd

mod me up, scottie!

Re:I do NOT agree...

[Anonymous Coward]

Why this kind of forgiveness applies only to computer related crimes? If this lonely guy chooses to start driving his car and crushing people... should we blame the car's manufacturer??

People can die or be scarred for life by a car. Viruses just damage information on your computer.
Big difference.

Re:I do NOT agree...

[DeBaas]

If this lonely guy chooses to start driving his car and crushing people... should we blame the car's manufacturer??

If the car company would have sold cars without (working) locks, and cars that could be started without a key.... Yes, to some degree. The lonely guy is still the one to blame, but the car manufacturer is to blame for making it so easy.

If you place a loaded gun in a postoffice, nobobdy ought to pick it up. But you shouldn't have put it there.

Journalistic Masturbation

[Snowdrake]

So I've finally reached the conclusion that for most of the mainstream press, interviewing Linus is really a way to look like they care about open source without actually risking taking a position. It feels to them like they're writing about something, but because Linus ostensibly views the whole thing as little more than "there," there's no particularly visible position or even evidence that differences of opinion exist on the issue. If you want people to care about OSS issues, you interview ESR or RMS or, on the other side, Steve Ballmer or Darl McBride. Otherwise, making people feel like they're enlightened when they've really learned nothing comes down to little more than masturbation.

Re:Journalistic Masturbation

[goneaway]

Uh, you might check the byline of the article then check the names on the spine of "Just For Fun." Obviously this is a journalist out to [ka-ching!] cash in on the Linux controversy.

First you read. Then you comprehend and place in context. Finally we get somewhere.

what bothers me...

[orpx]

Linus has some great words. What bothers me though is that if he really wants to help, a person in his position could be more agressive in ending what he referred to as 'normal people' syndrome and changes LOTS. You know what Im talking about. Guess i'll have to do it myself...

Re:Article unavaliable, here is the text

[orpx]

sometimes i read the articles, sometimes not. I could be a blathering psychopath fool. Incomprehensible? or just looking at the bigger picture and _not_ getting lost in... 8

Re:Microsoft/Technology...

[code_echelon]

"People over-simplify and say .NET is Java, for example. It's really not - it's much more. But it's not a completely unique idea."

Please explain how .NET is much more than Java. As a programmer they are two different architectures and .NET is different than Java, the statement .NET is more or better is false and quite honestly comes from asking a pointless question that has no relevance. They are different and both have different advantages over the other.

"What gets me is that this guy has the sheer _balls_ to write a Unix clone"

Linux is definately more than a UNIX clone and has shown to be so in the last few years. Linus, including others, also wrote much of the code from scratch. Most clones are direct copies of the original. Tell all the distros out there that there nothing more than Unix clones and that all there work has been for nothing as it is nothing but a Unix clone.

Lastly he never said they were incomptent or that they were stupid, he said that he was not interested in what they are currently working on. He works with the Linux Kernel and has not set out to destroy Microsoft, he has no need to be interested in what they are doing. Frankly most people are tired of hearing about M$, the majority of the news you here about them is how they are behind in security updates and new viruses are out using vulnerabilitis in the OS that a twelve year old learned to exploit before they did.

Re:Microsoft/Technology...

[wasabii]

Name one innovative thing in .Net. I will in turn respond with who did it first. And yes, .Net IS java, with the added benefit of only running on windows. Name one product that MS has made that they didn't buy or acquire from somebody else? Other than Microsoft Bob of course. The one thing MS is responsible for is taking other people's ideas and wrapping them in a shiny GUI. WHich is an innovation in it's own right. But it's a single innovation.

Re:Linus to World:

[wasabii]

You forget though, he wrote a unix clone FROM SCRATCH! Think of the innovative things inside Linux and the Unix world. Massive effecient clustering. Multiple types of clustering. 4 different schedulers for the kernel. Heck, just look at OpenMosix!

Linux is a hot bed of new ideas and technology. But, being open, it tends to attact that.

EXACTLY!

[0x0d0a]

The solution is not to steal links, not to screw over users, but simply to *disallow links to sites that require registration*. It's really simple. Slashdot editors do that as a matter of policy, with a *single* exception -- the NYT and NYT-related resources. The rationale is that they started linking to the NYT before their "no registration" policy came into place. I could never figure that out, and find it incredibly frusterating. I'd like to see a poll -- "Should we allow NYT links?" without a CowboyNeal option.

Re:EXACTLY!

[Anonymous Coward]

If this really is the basis for Slashdot's policy of continuing to allow NYT links, then I suggest that the /. editors include a /. registered NYT username and password in any posting referencing a "protected" article. It may not provide demographics information to NYT, but it *would* show NYT how many times /. users want to read their articles. It could turn out to be a worthwhile venture. I'm sure that /. could request permission from NYT in advance to make everyone feel warm and fuzzy.

How bout a Microsoft Babe...

[Dareth]

Very open with all her holes... easy to use, easy to abuse... but very very prone to spreading viruses...

Now that sounds like my kind of woman!

Re:How bout a Microsoft Babe...

[SemiBarbaricPrincess]

Very open with all her holes... easy to use, easy to abuse... but very very prone to spreading viruses...
Now that sounds like my kind of woman!

I'd like to point out that comments like this are the reason that you, and others that posted similar comments, were probably lonely in high school and/or college. They also continue to be part of the reason that so few women are in CS.

Downfall of MS

[solprovider]

If he really [actually] thinks that the downfall of Microsoft is an inevitability, I'd love to hear his timeframe on that.

Read my other posts. I believe MS will fall next year. I also believe Linux will play a very small part in that downfall. It will be the loss of revenue when OpenOffice becomes the standard for corporations that will put MS into the red.

Be thankful that Linux does exist. What would happen if MS disppeared and there was no OS usable and ready to become the standard? Yes, Linux will become #1 for the home consumer, but not because it beat MSWindows. It will be because MS's business model failed, and Linux was there to fill the void.

Re:Downfall of MS

[Overly Critical Guy]

Read my other posts. I believe MS will fall next year.

Yeah, right. All those Windows apps and arcane hardware devices everybody uses will magically vanquish within the next 12 months.

We've been hearing that partyline since 1998.

Re:Downfall of MS

[solprovider]

All those Windows apps and arcane hardware devices everybody uses will magically vanquish within the next 12 months.

I did not say that all MSWindows PCs will disappear next year. I did not say that MS will disappear.

My belief is that the move away from MSOffice will hurt MS's profits very badly. With the accounting tricks MS uses, the loss of those profits will be enough to put the company in the red. The panic that MS is falling will increase the migration away from MS products, further hurting their revenues. And it continues until they disappear.

They will not disappear next year. The dividends are moving money from MS's accounts to Bill and Steve's pockets while helping keep the stock price up. But even after the dividends, they have more than $30,000,000,000. That is enough to keep the company alive for 2 years even if all revenues stopped, and the revenues will not stop next year. Hopefully MS can survive long enough (6 years) to fulfill its contract with the U.S. Army. Does declaring bankruptcy protect a company from the guys with guns? When their boss runs the bankruptcy court?

Other possibilities:
- Selling pieces of the company (assuming anybody wants them.)
- Finding a business model that does not depend on accounting tricks.
- Finding a business model that does not depend on controlling the standards.
- Finding a business model that does not depend on being a monopoly.
- Finding a business model that does not depend on having tons of cash.

Bill and Steve have never shown much ability running a business. They saw an opportunity, took advantage of it, and then ruthlessly defended their position. But every attempt to diversify their business has failed. Maybe the big change coming is that MS will hire a CEO or President who has some experience running a big business profitably.

Re:Downfall of MS

[dtfinch]

They'll no doubt stick around like that other highly proprietary company that came before them, Apple, gradually shrinking year after year to remain profitable for as long as possible, until they either innovate like hell or close their doors and divide their billions among all their happy investors. Though unlike Apple they have enough assets to last practically forever even if they sell nothing, it's just a matter of them deciding when it's time to give up.

Re:Downfall of MS

[fredrik70]

um, probably not, MS will go the same way as IBM, maybe a bit further down since they do not have the service bit to fall back on as IBM did. MS will be much less imortant in the future, but not extinct. Heck, maybe they even turn over to be part of the 'Good Guys' just as IBM did!

Re:Downfall of MS

[Spackler]

Bill and Steve have never shown much ability running a business.

Ummm, wow. Dude, I'm not crazy about them either. However, if you think that becoming the richest guy in America, and your company has 40 Billion in the bank indicates someone without "ability running a business", you are an idiot. You don't have to like him, and you don't have to like his tactics. However, the end results are EXACTLY what running a business is about. Grow up.

Re:Downfall of MS

[aldoman]

I agree. Microsoft is TOO BIG for itself. It just can't change in any big way, unless it starts dying.

The reason? Most of its $$$ comes from OEMs/Enterprise installs. They need too have the same product, Windows XP/Office XP, loaded onto 10,000 boxes. It works. However, if M$ said too itself: 'hmm, lets make Windows free and charge subscriptions for updates', the OEMs wouldn't be happy. They have made a buisness out of reselling MS stuff. They'd move away before you can say 'MandrakeRedHatSUsE'.

Not only that M$ knows for a fact its very ineffecient. They have hundreads of coders doing sweet FA. Seriously, they have about 2-4 years inbetween major releases, and very little changes between them. Windows 2000 vs Windows XP? Luna theme, better compatibily etc. Very little major changes - in the same time Linux moved from 2.0 too 2.4, KDE from v1 too v3 etc.

M$ also pays a lot of its staff with stock options, instead of cash. Once investors start too realize that other companies are starting too become profitable and a genuine compentitor too M$ (Red Hat for example), they will start selling. This will mean M$ will have too start paying more stock options (in a similar way too Hyper Inflation in Germany - where you just keep printing more 'money' too get rid of your problems) or pay fully with cash. This will hit MS's bottom line even more -- meaning it gets trapped in a downwards cycle that it cant avoid.

While 1 year is a bit too soon IMO, I don't think it will be long before MS is no longer the driving force in IT. 5 years maybe. But it _is_ going down, unless Bill + Steve start smoking crack.

Re:Downfall of MS

[MrHanky]

Bill and Steve have never shown much ability running a business. They saw an opportunity, took advantage of it, and then ruthlessly defended their position. But every attempt to diversify their business has failed.

Yeah, right. They still only sell BASIC for homebrew computers. Remember, they actually did survive a couple of years before Office became their big money maker. Before Windows 3.x squeezed Word Perfect out of the market (because WP for Windows was late and as bug-ridden as an English brothel), very few people used Word. I don't about the rest of the Office apps, but they hardly dominated. You have to agree they've diversified a bit from the OS business.

Ah, and the X-Box too. Yes, they sell each unit with a loss, but they make money from -- guess what? -- controlling the standard, that is the X-Box hardware, and selling licenses to those who want to make money from software for the platform. Yes, we all hoped that the console would be a gigantic failure for MS, but it's really just business as usual for them: go in, grab a "fair" chunk of the market, and make money from controlling that market. That's also why they decided to squash Netscape, who, by the way, tried to use exactly the same tactics: dominate on the client side to make money from the servers. And to dominate on the client side, they introdused a lot of new "standards", like frames. Netscape failed because Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer are better at running a business that way, and came earlier to the game of domination.

Re:Downfall of MS

[Tony-A]

Not really. Microsoft's success is more about being in the right place at the right time to take advantage of the situation.

Re:Downfall of MS

[SpaceLifeForm]

You've used the word 'too' too many times.
Only two times was it used properly.
The other TEN times it should have been 'to'.

Re:Downfall of MS

[snilloc]

I've sampled OOo in it's 1.x and 1.1pre versions, and I have to say I'm disappointed.

It doesn't even perform as well as MSOffice 97. I tried to make some charts with the Spreadsheet program and found it totally inadequate for my needs. I was originally looking for a free alternative to Office97 (the version I happen to own). I find the Excel97 graphics to be pretty shitty, but OOo's were worse, and less customizable. Playing with the defaults for 15 minutes in Excel got me reasonably close to what I want. OOo just can't do it.

Oh yeah, and It's much slower.

OOo probably does a lot of stuff well, but until I can make a kick-ass presentation from its components like I can with MS, OOo won't fly in Big Offices everywhere.

(Does anybody know of a free program or suite that can make good charts? Something along the lines of Harvard Graphics98 for windows would be super, but I haven't even found anything as good as Office 97.)

Re:Downfall of MS

[schuster]

Personally, I think the whole security (or lack thereof) thing will what shrinks MS considerably. In its current form, I don't think that even Microsoft has the resources to make windows suffiently secure, and I don't think they have the stones to dump the whole thing, start from scratch, and build a new, more modular version. Personally, I'd like to see MS come out with quality products. If we're going to have to use them, they might as well be decent products, even if they aren't opensource (and I don't believe that open source is the answer to every question. It's not going to cure cancer, it's not going to catch Bin Ladin, and it's certainly not the answer to the meaning of life (don't bother with the hitch-hiker's guide reference)). So, to all you skript-kiddes out there, if you really want to accelerate the downfall of MS, keep writing those worms and viruses. Causing the US economy to lose billions and billions of dollars is worth it if MS falls, right? (and it just might be)

Re:Downfall of MS

[ChrisMaple]

AFAIK IBM has continually striven to significantly advance technology. The same claim cannot honestly be made for MS. Consequently, MS's future is unlikely to be like IBM's, unless your main criterion is size relative to the rest of the industry.

Re:Downfall of MS

[fredrik70]

yeah, IBM been very successful in reinventing themselves. MS is pretty much good enough for most ppl. so I think they stick around. Having said that not sure what MS would do with a complete paradigm shift away from PCs. they might be stuck there...

Re:Downfall of MS

[distrohopper]

How long has MS Office been around? I thought so...now, how long has OO been around? OK. How many people work on Excel every day for 8 hours a day for 10 years? Now, how many people work on Calc every day for 2 hours a day for 4 years? OO will improve, but it needs T-I-M-E. Actually, people are working on Writer more than Calc, because it's more important to the desktop user. Hey! They just had a job opening. Maybe you can join. ;)

Don't Mess WIth Out Hero Linus!

[Dareth]

Next you will say he wears mismatched armour, and doesn't wield a Holy Avenger +6 keyboard!!!

See ... it's all about balance

[theroterts]

You know, in any article/interview/publication about or of Linus I've ever read, he always comes across so balanced. He isn't out to convert anyone, though he ackolwedges that will probably happen. He doesn't hop on the latest technology bandwagon (file sharing good/evil, Gnome/KDE, MS/Linux). He's just a guy that seems to have a level head that just wants to help create a great OS.

And change the world in the process!

Seems like the "geek" world could use a lot more like Linus!

Funny 2

[MasTRE]

Has he put on weight?

Re:Funny 2

[Sri Ramkrishna]

Yes, he has. I remember back in 98, he was as thin as a real. Man, that paunch has grown as linux as grown. Maybe we should meter his paunch on how popular linux is. If he can't see his feet, we've won!

We can even meter it, by having a holiday like ground hog day. If Linus can see his feet, we hav another year of microsoft.

sri

Re:Funny 2

[MasTRE]

As an infamous "yo mama so fat" joke goes, if Linus' feet get wet when he takes a shower ol' Billy boy is the winner for that particular year. But M$ will eventually fall ("That will just be a completely unintentional side effect.") 8-)

Sounds kinda like a glacier..

[Kjella]

It's going where it's going, in its own pace, it doesn't have any intention of ramming anyone down, but if an 800lb gorilla like Microsoft happen to stand in the way, well too bad for the gorilla.

Also, feel free to add SCO somewhere in this analogy, but I'm just sick and tired of them so I won't. Preferably in excruciating pain and suffering.

Kjella

Re:Sounds kinda like a glacier..

[Blue Eagle 26]

SCO would be a Chinchilla...

Okay, call me a bastard, but, I'm serious....

[magores]

This is morbid, cynical, and I deserve to be shot for thinking along these lines, but please bear me out ...

Heaven forbid, but lets say that Linus pulls a John Ritter and unexpectedly dies.

What then?

There are a few people that have been instrumental in making computers a prevalent as they are... In making them as IMPORTANT to daily life as they are.

Torvalds, Gates, Jobs .... These men are the reason we all touch a computer every day. What happens when they are gone?

Jobs? As things are currently, the Mac will die without him. Sure... Some people will always use it. Just like some people will continue to use Amiga or OS/2

Gates? MS is an institution, like it or not. It will exist forever. MS has reached Critical Mass

Torvalds? What happens to Linux when The Engineer is gone? What happens when the Pure Coder is gone? Linux needs someone or something to "run it". Who is in line to be the next Torch Bearer? Who is the glue once Linus is gone?

The Kingdom with one King, becomes nothing with 20 kings.

I guess I'm just looking for a pat on the head and a kind word here... I'm afraid that without Linus, the whole OSS thing will fork beyond anything it currently resembles.

anyway.... just my worries

Re:Okay, call me a bastard, but, I'm serious....

[Anonymous Coward]

Torvalds? What happens to Linux when The Engineer is gone? What happens when the Pure Coder is gone? Linux needs someone or something to "run it". Who is in line to be the next Torch Bearer? Who is the glue once Linus is gone?

Andrew Morton?

The Kingdom with one King, becomes nothing with 20 kings.

I guess I'm just looking for a pat on the head and a kind word here... I'm afraid that without Linus, the whole OSS thing will fork beyond anything it currently resembles.

Possibly, but I suspect that someone's tree would fairly quickly emerge as the definitive tree that the other development trees track. And OSS projects other than the Linux kernel would be unaffected.

Re:Okay, call me a bastard, but, I'm serious....

[Holi]

There are a few people that have been instrumental in making computers a prevalent as they are... In making them as IMPORTANT to daily life as they are.

Linus has never been the man who made computers what they are today. Sorry, I like linux and all that, but really that honor (and I say this knowing I will now be hated on this site) goes to MicroSoft. Really they made the personal computer what it is today. could you see your mother or even your grandmother using a PC if it were not for Windows. Secure? no. easy to use? yes. There are trade offs when you rush a technology out. Think about this, prior to windows the only people who could really use computers were people who went to school for that reason, now everyone and their brother has one and can connect them to each other.

Never think that Linus made the PC what it is today. He helped improve an existing technology but he is still a minor player. I personally like the fact that he could care less about what MS is doing. It shows his focus is where it should be, on his work.

Re:Okay, call me a bastard, but, I'm serious....

[nagora]

could you see your mother or even your grandmother using a PC if it were not for Windows.

Um, you mean if Gates hadn't copied the Mac/Xerox system? EVERYONE could use the Mac when it came out; it had an ease-of-use that Windows XP can't touch. It was also a pig to do "real" programming on which is why I've never owned one, but I've used plenty.

The Mac made computers what they are today, in fact Gates dropped the ball on a lot of the good things in the Mac OS like networking. The only reason MS is where it is today is that Apple were, and are, totally shit at marketing insofaras they believe that marketing will overcome a huge price difference when you are selling something abstract like ease of use or even computing in general.

There's not a single feature of Windows that MS is responsible for inventing or even that they were first to market with.

TWW

Re:Okay, call me a bastard, but, I'm serious....

[doon]

There's not a single feature of Windows that MS is responsible for inventing or even that they were first to market with.

Not even the BSOD?

Sorry couldn't resist...

Re:Okay, call me a bastard, but, I'm serious....

[Anonymous Coward]

It's amazing the number of people who actually believe the MS party line on this. Even people old enough to remember 80's and the evolution of the modern PC. Here's the real goods:

The PC was released with a full set of technical documentation. Anybody could legally build one. Plus, the operating system was sold by a third party to anyone willing to buy it. The only missing piece was the BIOS. When the BIOS was clean-room cloned, anyone could build a PC.

Since the PC was the only non-proprietary hardware platform and it was backed by IBM, developers felt safe writing applications. The PC boomed, while all proprietary systems began to fade. The interesting fact is that most of the proprietary systems were significantly BETTER than DOS. The problem was there were too many, so developers wrote code for the cheap and common PC. Call it the "VHS effect".

The Atari ST, Amiga, and Macintosh had effective GUIs YEARS before Windows 3.0 was released. MS didn't invent "ease of use," they copied it from competitors. In fact, their ineptitude has held back the state of technology in the industry for years.

I love this comment :-

[bushboy]

Quote, Linus :-

I just can't see myself in the position of the nemesis, since I just don't care enough. To be a nemesis, you have to actively try to destroy something, don't you? Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect.

Linux technically interesting?

[crucini]

I think you're saying that Linux is not technically interesting because it's a Unix clone. Howerver, "Unix clone" is merely a description of the interface presented by the kernel, not how it works internally. You could have two implementations of Unix, both 100% POSIX compliant, and one could be technically interesting inside while the other isn't.
Then again, maybe you're not saying that.

Re:Linux technically interesting?

[Holi]

I disagree, how can they both not be technically interesting. even if one is a pure clone it would still be interesting. imgine knowing how the original UNIX was developed. How can you say that is not interesting?

Re:Linux technically interesting?

[crucini]

I disagree, how can they both not be technically interesting.

Actually, in my hypothetical scenario one of the implementations was interesting and one not.

imgine knowing how the original UNIX was developed. How can you say that is not interesting?

I guess there's more than one definition of "interesting". Is the Watt steam engine technically interesting? Sure, to a student or hobbyist. But engineers at Honda are unlikely to care, because it isn't advancing the current state of the art. That's what I think the original poster was saying about Linux - that because it's a reimplementation of an old standard, it's not an advance on the state of the art. I disagree with that idea, because a 2003 Honda Accord is also basically a reimplementation of an interface standard. Same basic seats and controls as a car of 20 years ago (the human interface), adapted to run on the same roads and similar fuel. The advancement is inside.

Blaming the virus-writers or virus-farmers

[crucini]

I can think of a few reasons. First, it may be that we have 100x as many guys who drive around crushing people as we have virus writers. But we don't hear about the crushers because their actions are local. They can only crush so many in one day. Therefore, penalizing them can both deter (by example) and prevent (by taking away their license) such actions. But one virus-writer can affect the whole world. This fundamentally alters the picture. With the crushers, we can define an enforcement level that's "adequate" because "only" x% of the population is crushed each year. But with viruses, we can't because statistically there will always be a virus writer out there.

Second, the crusher cannot work from outside US jurisdiction and crush people in the US. But virus writers can be anywhere. So a safety plan based on deterring these guys will not work.

So if you want to be realistic, you have to view computer viruses as a natural, ongoing phenomenon, not a criminal aberration.

If a company makes a car that has a button on the hood, and pressing that button makes the car explode, you can blame the kid who presses the button, but after the 100th time you might want to put the burden on the manufacturer to remove that button.

Another great line

[corebreech]

...from a technology angle, Microsoft really has been one of the least interesting companies.

Cuts like a knife. Go Linus!

two groups of linux ppl

[beakburke]

I would have to agree, there are two groups. The '1 4m 1337' crowd who are into linux cause they think it makes them cool or cause they want to "get even" with microsoft. And the more mature element, who tend to be more knowledgeable, more committed, and seem to have stayed involved longer. This second group seems to be the group that dominates contribution end of OSS if not always the end user demographic.

Linus is not a Scandinavian

[roffe]

he's from Finland - the Scandinavian countries are Norway, Sweden and Denmark. I'd make him an honorary Scandinavian any day though.

Re:Linus is not a Scandinavian

[plj]

You're right from strict geographical point of view, but, as the term "Scandinavia" is often used as a synonym for "nordic countries", including scandinavian countries + Iceland + Finland, this is same kind of mostly irrelevant detail as all the times pointing out that it's GNU/Linux and not just Linux. One could also use the term "Fennoscandinavia", which includes Finland, but AFAIK not Iceland.

Besides, Linus is Fenno-Swede, which means that his mother tongue is actually Swedish instead of Finnish, and he probably also has some Swedish relatives as well, even if they're very distant.

Disclaimer: I can do that:

kruuna% finger torvalds
Login: torvalds Name: Linus Torvalds
Directory: /h/9/tkol/torvalds Shell: /bin/tcsh
last login on kruuna Wed Apr 5 08:23:13 2000 on pts/25 from neon-gw.transmet
Mail last read Sat Feb 1 15:12:10 2003
No Plan.

Re:Linus is not a Scandinavian

[Anonymous Coward]

Linus grew up in Helsinki, but he's apparently from an ethnically Swedish family.

Re:Linus is not a Scandinavian

[roffe]

there is a reason why I didn't use my Karma Bonus for this post, and that is that it isn't very relevant. nevertheless, a Scandinavian is someone who's from Scandinavia. Linus is not from Finland. He's not a Scandinavian. no big deal, just a tidbit for those who like to know what's what. he's from one of the Nordic contries. the Nordic countries comprise Scandinavia + Finland and Iceland.

Who is David Diamond?

[Prien715]

David Diamond co-wrote Linus's autobiography for those of you not in "the know"

I believe the word you're searching for is...

[Rimbo]

"Bukkake."

At least, that was the image that came to MY mind.

My mind is dirty...

Re:I believe the word you're searching for is...

[fredrik70]

gross! *grin*
ALways wondered why my keyboard was so sticky on my linux box.

Re:Linus has a great bottom line

[Rimbo]

That was pretty deep. I can't remember a time I got that much depth out of a Slashdot post.

said "will" not "would"

[Anonymous Coward]

" Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect. "
My enemies fall before me without my raising a finger. Lo! My will is done by others before the thought itself crosses my mind. Effortless success exhudes from my very presence. Verily, the mighty will fall, before I have even grown to care. IBM is my little finger and the world is my puppet hahahahahahahahahahah...

Re:Microsoft/Technology...

[Anonymous Coward]

What?!?!?

Don't tell me the annoying animated paper clip is actually originally someone else's innovation than microsoft's.

Scary pic.

[Reservoir Penguin]

Damn Linus looks so fat and scary in this pic!!! He should have stayed in Finland!!!

Huh?

[twoslice]

You go out for dinner, and all the tables are filled with engineers talking about things that won't be available to "normal people" for a few years. If ever.

Who are these normal people he speaks of?

Fileshareing vs. OSS

[WindBourne]

I find it funny that the author implies a link between music file sharing and OSS.
The MS world has been sharing programs (intentional and not) forever. Many ppl still use a program just to try it out. Others flat out steal it with no intetion of paying. That has been the norm in the MS world, not the exception.
While p2p and decss was started in the OSS world, neither has really been about stealing info. Decss was simply trying to preserve our right to view movies that we bought and paid for. p2p was simply a scalable way to move files vs. a slashdot effect. I personally do not know of anybody who does linux who trades in movies or music.
I do know a number of ppl from the MS world (and I think a few from the mac) who trade constantly in both. When I ask them about it and the copyright, the attitiude is who cares. Even the best p2p and rippers are from the MS world now, not OSS, due to market demand.
Oddly enough, if RIAA and MPAA really wanted a workable solution they should work with the OSS world to get something started that could be moved back to MS. I doubt that they wil though.

Re:Fileshareing vs. OSS

[borgheron]

This is the unfortunate side effect of the stupidity of the masses. The media frequently tries to play up anything which takes a less-than-mainstream approach as bad by linking it to something like this.

The author of the article apparently didn't understand the difference between sharing copyrighted music and letting someone look at and modify code for which you have given them permission to do so under some given license (GPL, BSD take your pick).

I have found that people, for the most part, are inherently stupid and they want to remain that way. So the simple idea of sharing music files, to them, equates to sharing *ANY* kind of file for whatever reason. Once they latch on to that idea, it's difficult to change public perception.

GJC

How about sex with your first born daughter?

[Anonymous Coward]

Could I put that into a click-through license for an article I write and publish to the web, is that my right too?

Think about what you're saying here.

Picture of Linus with NYtimes

[Danathar]

I've only seen several pictures of Linus over the years, but that photo of him on the right of the article makes him look like an offensive gaurd in American football! Was'nt he alot skinnier?

Re:Picture of Linus with NYtimes

[Anonymous Coward]

Um, everyone gets older

User: cyberpunks Pass: cyberpunks

[Anonymous Coward]

Username: cyberpunks
Password: cyberpunks

Re:User: cyberpunks Pass: cyberpunks

[Anonymous Coward]

That's the third alternative I was looking for. A group registration. It should be posted with every article that links to the NYT. Or at least the first reply.

Re:Doesn't care enough - exactly

[CaptainTux]

What you say is very true. While I love Linux and Open Source and don't particularly care for Bill Gates or Microsoft (although I do believe he's an incredibly intelligent man and a VERY savvy businessperson) I am hesitant to demonize him like others here do. Mr. Gates and his company have contributed BILLIONS of dollars to various charities around the world and the Bill and Melinda Gate Foundation is changing lives every day through their donations of money to charities. Regardless of their business practices, they are doing their part to help humanity. On the flip side, I can find very few (if any) instances where an Open Source company has done anything even near what the Gates Foundation has done. And it's not because they can't. Companies like RedHat have the resources to contribute to social causes (maybe not as much as MS but at least some). I think people need to learn that, in the end, it's not just about great software but about the social legacy you leave as well. Maybe it's time the OSS movement caught on to that.

Even funnier

[Anonymous Coward]

I always thought esr was the poster boy for pompous self-aggrandizing idiots.

Re:Doesn't care enough - exactly

[Anonymous Coward]

You really don't get it? Fool. The William H. Gates foundation has assets of 10 billion to hand out to charities. So he gives money to some school here and there so now he looks like a "good" guy and wow isn't that nice. No, more like 138 million of AIDS prevention funding. Idiot. I'd say when you reguarly throwing billions at world problems you are doing something right and frankly it doesnt matter what your underlying motivation is.

Bullshit [Re:Downfall of MS]

[Sphere1952]

Bill's running a boom-and-bust operation. His is a socially unacceptable short-sighted viewpoint -- like most of Big Business these days. Only in it for the moment, and without regard to the long-term implications.

There are companies out there which take the long view, don't try for explosive growth, and do very well over time. Why should we take shit from the sharks?

Mirror

[GFunk83]

In case anyone cares, I've mirrored the article for those of you who don't want to register with the NYT website. The mirror is here.

Another reason not to register

[nutsy]

The New York Times's site is useless under my browser of choice for reading Slashdot articles, lynx (and anyone who yells "Use a different browser, then!" is missing the point). I can fill out the cute little questionnaire, register, use the login and password specified... and the damned site bounces me back to the login page anyway. I refuse to play games, and I refuse to use Mozilla (bog-slow) or MSIE (requires reboot into MS-Windows) just because a site doesn't want to deal with a perfectly good browser on the level. Most NYT articles eventually show up on Google News, anyway, and those that don't are typically redundant to other articles that do show up on Google News.

Re:Another reason not to register

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not another reason not to register, it's just a flimsy rationalization followed by a whine followed by a superiority trip and followed with another rationalization.

What a sad sad loser....

apple dead

[eadint]

excuse me but how could the best development platform been dead. are you smoking the same crack as SCO

The American Empire ... Yawn

[duck_prime]

The New York Times is the newspaper of record for the American empire. Words appear there in order to be read, by the citizens of the empire and its subjects.

Y'know, if America is an empire, it's a pretty namby-pamby empire. Not nearly as hard core as the Roman Empire. If we were reading "Tempore Yorki Novi" or something, now *that* would be a proper imperialist rag.

The Matrix...

[The Lynxpro]

I cannot believe anyone online hasn't pointed his finger at Linus being "The One" and Bill Gates as the Architect of "The Matrix" with a bunch of rogue programs messing up the place... I think I've just found a way with this analysis of making that series of schlock films relevant...

The Rise of MS

[solprovider]

You disagreed with my line:
Bill and Steve have never shown much ability running a business. They saw an opportunity, took advantage of it, and then ruthlessly defended their position. But every attempt to diversify their business has failed.

Here are your thoughts plus my commments:
They still only sell BASIC for homebrew computers.
MS did well selling BASIC interpreters to the personal computer manufacturers. They did lots of fast talking about how each manufacturer's version of BASIC would be compatible with the other versions. It was too bad they could not learn how to port it without changing it. MS created the standard, and could not fulfill it.

Remember, they actually did survive a couple of years before Office became their big money maker.
Their next big hit was MS-DOS. They got that chance because IBM wanted their BASIC. They saw the opportunity to pull a fast one, and the rest is history. That one event of fast thinking created the bankroll that allowed everything else.

Before Windows 3.x squeezed Word Perfect out of the market (because WP for Windows was late and as bug-ridden as an English brothel), very few people used Word. I don't about the rest of the Office apps, but they hardly dominated. You have to agree they've diversified a bit from the OS business.
Read the stories about how MS tricked WordPerfect Corp.. It is very difficult to put out a product when you do not have the specifications for the API. MSWord was the killer app that sold MSWindows. And the office suite became the new cash cow.

Ah, and the X-Box too. Yes, they sell each unit with a loss, but they make money from ... controlling the standard, that is the X-Box hardware, and selling licenses to those who want to make money from software for the platform.
Yes, they still lose money on the X-Box. And if it stays around for a few years, they may be able to make money on it. It could become a good strategic decision if MS survives. But they are doing it to attempt to control another standard, not because it will make money in the near future.

That's also why they decided to squash Netscape, who, by the way, tried to use exactly the same tactics: dominate on the client side to make money from the servers. And to dominate on the client side, they introdused a lot of new "standards". Netscape failed because Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer are better at running a business that way, and came earlier to the game of domination.
Netscape had to convince people that this new type of application had any benefit. So they developed a business model where the application was free for home use. And it worked: everybody knows what is a web browser. Netscape WAS the standard. Their inventions were not introduced to be incompatible; they were introduced to improve the product.
- MS used their previous monopoly to dominate the market. Netscape failed because they could not compete against the monopoly power of MS. MS did introduce incompatibilities with Netscape and the newly active W3C recommendations. Have you ever written JavaScript (a purely Netscape invention) that has to check browser version because MS decided to use a different DOM. I expect the true reason they used a different DOM was because they did not have the technical expertise to figure out how to program the DOM that was in Netscape, but it did make much work for website developers everywhere.

Re:The Rise of MS

[OSgod]

Sounds like you agree -- Bill G. and Paul A. have at least ten and probably 20 years of huge success in business. After all they found several opportunities and made a profit off of them. The profits from the successes exceeded the losses from their failures.

Sounds like a successful business model for me.

Did you, by any chance, program JavaScript for Netscape -- not I.E. -- only to find that each minor release of Netscape borke compatability? It was maddening! I standardized over 1000 machines at our company on Netscape. We bought the licenses -- commercial copies. We developed Intranet applications for it. With each new small letter release they broke our client side scripts. After the third or fourth one we decided we had an issue!

Incompatability between versions of Netscape + instability of Netscape (crashing constantly -- bugs found but never repaired, etc.) and the lure of MS -- not cost of the product but a stable, backward compatable product drove us to drop Netscape like the trash it became.

Note: this was during the early 3.X days of Netscape. IE 3.X killed Netscape dead. It worked. IE 2.X was better than Netscape was at that point!

For us, Netscape killed Netscape. MS gave us a viable, corporately supportable product.

Re:Doesn't care enough - exactly

[Anonymous Coward]

I understand where you are coming from, but don't forget about the details of the donations made...

India has been receiving *only* since MS felt threatened there.

Don't forget how much *less* that this -foundation- has given to charity than the Sultan of Brunei claims on his Tax Forms (the only man comparable in terms of personal wealth).

AND don't forget that the majority of the contributors to OSS do *not* declare their individual contributions to charitable organisations.

Sorry, just felt the poster should have been labelled TROLL.

perfectly reasonable

[Xtifr]

I find it funny that the author implies a link between music file sharing and OSS.

Perfectly reasonable. There is music that can legally be shared (concerts by Grateful Dead, Pearl Jam, Gov't Mule, Widespread Panic, Bernie Worrell (of the Talking Heads & P-Funk), Tom-Tom Club, Cowboy Junkies, Les Claypool (of Primus), Big Head Todd, Jack Black's Tenacious D, etc., etc.), and music that can't be. Just as there is software which can legally be shared and software which can't.

I personally do not know of anybody who does linux who trades in movies or music.

Well, I'm a Debian developer, and I just uploaded an error-corrected version of a Radiators concert to the Live Music Archive. Of course, I didn't violate any copyrights in doing so, since the Radiators have given explicit permission for their concerts to be hosted on the LMA. But there ya go: I trade in legally tradeable software and music.

Re:perfectly reasonable

[borgheron]

You're correct. It's all about the license. That's what most people don't get. It's simply easier for the unwashed masses to believe that a given category of thing is "bad" in general rather than having to think about it.

GJC

Fools errand...

[qtp]

With all respect, this is bullshit!

No it is not bullshit. Like it or not, reprinting other people's copyrighted works for distribution without thier permission is both wrong and against the law. There may be an argument for fair use here because this is a discussion forum that is discussing said argument, but for fair use to apply it would probably require that only those parts of the article that are being specifically commented on in that post be reprinted (quoting the article to make a point or to elaborate/illustrate an idea is acceptable fair use, karma whoring by bypassing accepted chanels to that article is not).

The New York Times is the newspaper of record for the American empire.

There is no "newspaper of record" for the "American empire". The masters of this hegemony would never allow any media source to become "authoritative" as that would mean they could not later dispute the lies they spread there when they no longer serve the hegemony.

They published it

Yes the did publish it, and as the publisher of this article they control the copyright and thus can decide how to distribute it. And don't give me any of that poorly thought out "copyright is bad" crap, as the GPL depends on copyright law to ensure that the source code remains availabe. The way copyright is implemented may be flawed (and yes it sucks big time) but the concept is not inherently bad and it could serve individuals and communities as well as companies if we attempted to be a little less strident and a little more convincing when making our arguments.

The New York Times has never explained WHY they require a registration for reading from the net

They have no obligation to do so. My guess is that because the same articles are available at newstands, in libraries and through delivered subscriptions, the advertisers balked at paying to advertise separately for the web edition. Advertising is the main income for news publishers, and the rates are set by the number of expected viewers of the advertisement. If the NYT wanted to charge premium rate for the adspace on thier web edition, they probably would need good statistics about who it is that reads the web edition. Hence registration. Whether this is a good business model for web editions of also printed media, or if there are better ways to accomplish the same thing for this particular edition of this particular newspaper, is thier problem. Personally I think they are making a mistake by limiting thier readers (and thus ad viewers) by requiring registration, but theyu are not required to listen to or follow my, or your, advice.

Every demand from a corporate entity for personal information deserves an explanation of why this information is being collected and for what purposes it will be used.

Agreed, if the corporate entity is not forthcoming with this information to the satisfaction of the potential subscriber (through a subcriber agreement and a privacy policy, then that potential subscriber should decline the offer for a subscription and perhaps go down to the newstand or library to read the content in relative anonymity.

I like to dream that some day some people, perhaps you and I, might create a publication that lives up to journalistic and business ideals that I can consider admirable. Until that day that the right combination of opportunity, skills and like minded individuals come together in such a task, I will treasure the right to criticize those who do not, but I will not allow myself to be so egotistical as to demand that these others change thier business practices to my whim, nor will I believe that they are entirely without worth because of thier failure to live up to an ideal that I have yet to witness in this world.

This is blasphemy...

[EvilTwinSkippy]

But in the grand scheme of things, Linus's chief role in Linux development is that of project head.

He does not code every new change himself. Indeed, peering through Gentoo's portage system, there are several competing versions of the Linux Kernel. Different factions develop different elements, and they eventually get folded back into the "Linus" branch:

• AC - Alan Cox's Kernel
• GRSec - GR Security
• MM - Andrew Morton's Kernel
• Mosix - Transparent Clustering
• RSBac - Rule Set Based Access Control (RSBAC)
• SELinux - The NSA's locked down Kernel
• Usermode - The Kernel hacked with special usermode security
• Wolk - Working Overloaded Linux Kernel

Re:"Required" email

[Anonymous Coward]

'Yield and you need not break:'
Bent you can straighten
Emptied you can hold,
Torn you can mend;
And as want can reward you
So wealth can bewilder.
Aware of this, a wise man has the simple return
Which other men seek:
Without inflaming himself
He is kindled,
Without explaining himself
Is explained,
Without taking credit
Is accredited,
Laying to claim
Is acclaimed
And, because he does not compete,
Finds peaceful competence.
How true is the old saying,
'Yield and you need not break'!
How completely it comes home!

Long lived institutions

[ChrisMaple]

Well of course, but some companies do last a very long time. Hudson's Bay Company has been around more than 300 years. Some European brewers have existed much longer.

Religious institutions seem to be the longest-lived, but whether they can be regarded as not failing is a different question.

That Damn Registry

[bodrell]

Hell, I'd be happy enough if they'd just get rid of that goddamn registry. One of the biggest problems I've had with Windows is the lack of modularity. If you get a new hard disk, and want to transfer one program from the old drive without making a clone of the whole drive, you can't do it. Even if you copy the whole directory with the desired program, there's always those stupid registry keys that'll muck it up.

The registry is also responsible for the massive slooow dooownnn you experience after installing/uninstalling programs (like when testing out shareware programs).

There are plenty of reasons I hate using Windows (and I haven't, at home, since my Celeron 300a croaked awhile ago, and my Powerbook G4 does everything so much better), but I'll stick with my #1 reason. That evil HKEY\\BUNCH_OF_GIBBERISH.

TCSH?!

[SharpFang]

Somebody bitch at my using tcsh once again!!! :) :) :)

CowboyNeal options

[ajs]

What you suggest (a poll for allowing NYT links) is interesting, but I'd find a "Cowboy Neal option" quite useful, and rather than your suggestion that it not be included, I'd like to suggest that it should ALWAYS be included.

Why?

I see that option as statistically equivalent to "don't care" and that's useful data. I always used to look at the CN option first to guage the margin of error for a poll. If the CN was high, then the poll probably wasn't taken very seriously. If it was low, the results were generally fairly representitive of what people thought.

In general I consider any poll to be accurate only + or - the CowboyNeal result. I just wish CowboyNeal (or at least a "don't care") were an option on national elections, and no one was allowed to take an office if they received a count less than the the CN count.