MIT Open Courseware with 500 Courses

Hopefully this will start a trend by Muerto · 2003-09-30 07:37 · Score: 4, Insightful

I hope that information will someday be " free as in beer " for everyone. Now if you are born poor you will most likely stay poor... and this is changing. The internet has been a great gift to everyone... it brings people of all income levels to an even playing field.

Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by australopithecus · 2003-09-30 07:39 · Score: 5, Funny

makes sense.
its good to know that poor people will be able to scootch up to their home computer and...oh wait.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by Muerto · 2003-09-30 07:40 · Score: 4, Informative

ahhh.. yes i was waiting for that point to be made... you forget the public library!
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by australopithecus · 2003-09-30 07:43 · Score: 1

ah yes, i was waiting for this point to be made.

"Hi, im poor. Ill be learning at the public library right after i make enough money to eat. I mean, sleep is for pussies."

the public library isnt the solution to the digital divide...if that were the case, the phrase "digital divide" probably wouldnt exist.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by Muerto · 2003-09-30 07:45 · Score: 1

"digital divide" is a neat catch phrase.. it would and will exist for a while. I agree the public library is not the fix.. but it is a start. Your point of being hungry is beside the fact. Yes, we need to fix the problems of starvation so people won't die before they get to the library.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by stanmann · 2003-09-30 07:46 · Score: 1

The digital divide isn't pertinent to this, there will always be dead tree books and learning.

And those who are "poor" and want to learn will manage to scrape study time at the Climate controlled Public library in order to expand their knowledge base, and the motivated will make their own way up.

--
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by gl4ss · 2003-09-30 07:46 · Score: 1

computer that can be used for reading this(and internet connectivity and whatnot) ~300e-700e.

10 books worth 50-70e a piece=500-700e.

books can be horribly expensive... and the markup as well.. i just checked out that it had some stuff i might have needed to buy a 70e book for(can't attend the lectures of said course because i got another lecture to attend during them, and the lecturer doesn't make lecture notes available on 'net).

besides, being able to use a computer at somewhere is pretty much requisitory for a student when even enrollment to courses is handled exclusively from web.

--
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:49 · Score: 0

"Now if you are born poor you will most likely stay poor"

That is funny. State Colleges give loans and grants exclusively based on need. Maybe a little hard work and less than 30 hours a week of Jerry Springer and WWF would help.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by swordboy · 2003-09-30 07:53 · Score: 5, Interesting

I've always wondered why teachers don't "open source" some text books. When I was in school, it seemed that they changed the text every semester so that kids couldn't buy used books, or resell them after use. It almost seemed as if they were colluding with the publishers. I almost organized a book burning with the angry students who were finding that their $150 Accounting 101 book became worthless after the sememster was over. There are few scholarships/grants that will cover the cost of a text.

Don't get me wrong - I kept all the good stuff (and still reference it today when google doesn't come through - there are few such cases but I have whacked a few).

In any event, it would be simple - a book is created and is available for modification so as long as the modifications are submitted back to the original author. The text would evolve into something that could not be purchased from *any* publisher.

Students Win. Society Wins. Evil Publishers Lose.

--

Life is the leading cause of death in America.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by BdosError · 2003-09-30 07:53 · Score: 0, Offtopic

Let's hope that OCW doesn't end up in the list of banned sites for one of the CIPA mandated web filtering applications. Of course, we'd never know, since most of the companies don't publish the site or keyword lists that they block.

--
Complexity is Easy. Simplicity is Hard.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by kurosawdust · 2003-09-30 07:54 · Score: 4, Insightful

Now if you are born poor you will most likely stay poor
Whoa. I am a liberal in most cases, but this is just crap. If you have access to the internet and >= 3 or 4 free hours a day and don't have a learning disability, you have (within epsilon of) no excuses. In the case of something like computer science, there is (not even within epsilon of) zero excuse for your aptitude other than your desire and the amount of work you put in. It sounds just as romantic as the quote I am responding to, but it's true; if you plug someone in to the internet, they can learn about almost anything they want and in all probability be great at it - they just have to work.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by australopithecus · 2003-09-30 07:57 · Score: 1

never said it was pertinent to this, just replying to the statement made regarding the "evening out of the playing field" due to the internet, and how you may no longer be required to live poor if you are born poor.

Ill be looking forward to the day when you hire a homeless man who has taught himself a skill set over an ascot wearing coke sniffing dimwit who cashed his way through the Ivies and has that expensive piece of paper tucked under his arm.

Im glad you are under the belief that motivation is the primary factor in success. Im sure its the only thing that you've had on your side.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by tessaiga · 2003-09-30 08:00 · Score: 2, Insightful

Education will never be "free as in beer", only "free as in speech". Putting together a good curriculum, course notes, problem sets, and finals is a lot of work. Currently OpenCourseWare is subsidized by the school and existing MIT students, some of whom have not been terribly happy about the idea.
A better way to put it would be that the marginal cost of making information available once it's produced is free, and that the best we can hope for is that schools will make pre-existing information available for free. Whether this works as a business model will depend on whether the "value added" by the educational environment of actually attending an institution makes up for the cost of tuition.

--
The bold print giveth, and the fine print taketh away ...
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by DarkSarin · 2003-09-30 08:01 · Score: 1

Hopefully you are wrong about dead tree books. I want to see a renewable source for paper (hemp!), that doesn't take vast acres of ruined forest. That said, I am a republican by registration and an independent by philosophy.

--
"We don't know what we are doing, but we are doing it very carefully,..." Wherry, R.J. Personnel Psychology (1995)
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:04 · Score: 2, Interesting

Not with the way public libraries have been getting their budgets cut, which has translated into fewer open hours around these parts. But I'm sure the mickey d's manager will understand when they request lunch hours off so they can improve themselves.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by stanmann · 2003-09-30 08:04 · Score: 5, Interesting

Yup, that and parents who valued learning. If more parents valued learning over entertainment and availed themselves of the Public Library vs paying $50 monthly for Cable, $300ea for a tv in each room and $60ea for a VCr to go with, they could afford to bootstrap themselves from poverty to educated.

And no I'm not particularly motorvated, so I haven't gone as far as I could.
BUT I've reached the goals I set for myself my senior year of HS and surpassed them. I'm a software engineer for the largest Employer in the US, I own a fully paid for new car, Cell phone, pager and home network. I didn't however realize that I was "born poor" till after I moved out, and the first year on my own, made more than my parents combined income.

Frugal living, careful planning and inventive meal management. I never went hungry. And yes, living at the "poverty line".

--
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by australopithecus · 2003-09-30 08:05 · Score: 1

republican party for the legalization of hemp? no way, post a link. i demand satisfaction.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by bluethundr · 2003-09-30 08:06 · Score: 2, Interesting

I hope that information will someday be " free as in beer " for everyone. Now if you are born poor you will most likely stay poor... and this is changing. The internet has been a great gift to everyone... it brings people of all income levels to an even playing field.

To quote Qeen Victoria:

"Give my people plenty of beer, good beer, and cheap beer, and you will have no revolution among them"

Can the same be said for information? Which would you think is better for society?

--
Quod scripsi, scripsi.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by stanmann · 2003-09-30 08:07 · Score: 1

Simple enough, trade friday night and saturday lunch for monday lunch. Monday is about as off-peak as you get for fast food, and so...

--
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by australopithecus · 2003-09-30 08:10 · Score: 1

vote stanmann: he knows how to solve all the problems
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by phoenix_rizzen · 2003-09-30 08:12 · Score: 4, Insightful

The problem with public libraries is that nobody uses them anymore. This means they are losing funding ... which leads to fewer new books ... which makes it even less relevant and fewer people will use them. The hours are being cut, making it harder for people to use them.

It'd be nice to see a library that didn't open until after noon, and stayed open into the wee hours. Then it would actually be useful for students, those who work, and so on. Being open from 9 until 5 isn't really convenient for anybody.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by spektr · 2003-09-30 08:13 · Score: 2, Insightful

If you have access to the internet and >= 3 or 4 free hours a day

May be a problem for someone who is poor and has to have two jobs at a time.

if you plug someone in to the internet, they can learn about almost anything they want and in all probability be great at it - they just have to work.

May be true for computer sciences. It seems to work for India. But I'm not sure if this is true for most other professions, too.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by DarkSarin · 2003-09-30 08:14 · Score: 1

never said they were...just me personally. Sorry, though--current technology limitations prevent me from posting a link from this (or any other) website directly to the content of my mind. At least in any meaningful way.

As for the RP being for the legalization of hemp, I hope you are not confusing this with the legalization of marijuana. They are, politically, two different issues (morally too, but that's another story). Hemp should be, and if I ran for governor of, oh say, Kentucky, I would put that on my bill, and give incentives to corporations and farmers who switched from growing tobacco to growing hemp.

The reason is that hemp is a very fast growing weed, and is extremely useful for paper, ink, bio-diesel (somebody verify this one for me plz?), and many other resources. It cannot be used for smoking (unless somebody wants very little buzz with a fairly decent headache, from what I hear).

If the Republican leadership was half as smart as they should be, they would bill this to big business as a way to get an early jump on a big market, and give big incentives to the companies. As for whether or not any of them would agree with me, I doubt it.

Unfortunately, it is popular to hate republicans (which may be one of the reasons I lean that direction, even though both parties represent the same essential idea--power for their friends, and increased taxes for everyone else), and this leads to a general belief that if your republican you can't have forward thinking ideas. It simply isnt' true!

--
"We don't know what we are doing, but we are doing it very carefully,..." Wherry, R.J. Personnel Psychology (1995)
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by dswensen · 2003-09-30 08:16 · Score: 1

unlike you, who only knows how to tear other people's solutions down, apparently.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by Fred+IV · 2003-09-30 08:18 · Score: 1, Insightful

I've always wondered why teachers don't "open source" some text books.

That would be nice, but that would interfere with the goal of most colleges: sucking every dollar they can out of you. The teachers might not mind the idea, but the campus bookstore that anally rapes students coming and going (even on used books) and the administration would probably have a fit if their teachers started making decisions that cut into their profit margin.

There are exceptions where schools appear to be doing something altruistic, but MIT is making more than their share on tuition and the usual. I'm sure they still turn away more than they admit, even if they are giving their course materials away.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by kurosawdust · 2003-09-30 08:18 · Score: 1

May be a problem for someone who is poor and has to have two jobs at a time.
it definitely would be a problem for someone who has to work two jobs - they wouldn't have a few hours of free time each day, and thus would fail the 'if' clause and the rest of the comment would not pertain to them.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by stanmann · 2003-09-30 08:18 · Score: 5, Insightful

Well if learning is your goal, your local public college is the place. the library is typically open past 1am, and unless you want to take books with you, is free to non-students.

--
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by Muerto · 2003-09-30 08:20 · Score: 1

dude.. beer... no doubt... beer.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:20 · Score: 0

Maybe, and I hope so... but I think it is more likely that you'll still be charged lotsa $ to get the credential (e.g., BSE, EE, MIT) that will grant entry to peachy jobs. It's much like O'Reilly books, really -- you can know J2EE / .NET / whatever really well, but unless you've plied your trade ON THE JOB, forget about it mattering too much to HR.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by stanmann · 2003-09-30 08:21 · Score: 1

Not all the problems, just the ones you pose. Don't vote for me. Too much work to be in public orifice. I much prefer doing a good job and going home... quietly to my wife at night.

--
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by sionnach · 2003-09-30 08:23 · Score: 1

People that tear down others ideas for fun are called Devil's Advocates... or just fhwghads.. People that point out the flaws in others ideas then help fix them are called Productive. (corrolary: ...never make it in politics.) Someone's got to be the DA to make sure the parts that don't work are noticed and get fixed, but they can do so in a productive manner. If noone ever pointed out the flaws in others' ideas, then we wouldn't have engineering.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by imnoteddy · 2003-09-30 08:25 · Score: 1

The text would evolve into something that could not be purchased from *any* publisher.
I don''t see what's in it for the author, other than publicity and a warm fuzzy feeling. If an author's book can't be purchased she'll never get any royalties.

--
No electrons were harmed creating this post, though some may have been subjected to electrical and/or magnetic fields.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by dmauer · 2003-09-30 08:26 · Score: 4, Informative

When I was in school, it seemed that they changed the text every semester so that kids couldn't buy used books, or resell them after use. It almost seemed as if they were colluding with the publishers.
This is an awfully well-known scheme the publishing houses use to sell books. The schools can't do anything about it, anyway. Here's how it works:

1) Publish a new edition of your textbook at least every couple of years. Be sure to change the page numbering significantly, and ideally, move stuff from chapter to chapter. The harder it is to syncronize with the old edition, the better!
2) Release it as soon as you're almost sold out of the previous edition.
3) Laugh as bookstores can no longer carry new copies of the old edition, so professors have to require the new edition -- they can't assume that everyone will be able to find a used copy of the old edition, and it'll take way too much of their time to synchronize teaching from both editions.
4) Rinse, Repeat
5) PROFIT!

Arseholes.

--
=== "Some people see the glass as half-empty. Others see it as half-full. I see the glass as too big." -G. Carlin.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by spektr · 2003-09-30 08:27 · Score: 1

it definitely would be a problem for someone who has to work two jobs - they wouldn't have a few hours of free time each day, and thus would fail the 'if' clause and the rest of the comment would not pertain to them.

You are from Vulcan, aren't you? :)
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:29 · Score: 0

It would be nice if these credits could be freely transferred, like University of Phoenix online.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by stanmann · 2003-09-30 08:31 · Score: 1

Ever since the emergence of the Free public library information and therefore Education has been free as in speech. The public education system goes hand in hand with this by producing nominal or marginal "univeral literacy". If you can read this post, you can teach yourself C++ in 21 days at your public library.

--
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:37 · Score: 0

I know this isn't your point, but, "free as in beer" doesn't assume zero costs (or even zero marginal costs).

That link cracks me up... "oooh no! I'm spent a lot of money for this experience, and now you are giving it away for free...! I could have went to a good public university and just downloaded the lectures." Oh, ok... at least you dont sound like an elitist bitch! :)
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:50 · Score: 0

And no I'm not particularly motorvated, so I haven't gone as far as I could.
However hard I try I can't think of a good way to make fun of motorvated.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 09:00 · Score: 0

Sounds like more of a problem with your area than libraries in general.

Where I live (Tampa, FL), the public libraries have pretty good hours (9am - 9pm), plenty of computers for everyone to use, and also very current computer books with a large range of topics.

There are usually a good number of people using the libraries, too. Not to mention quite a few hot chicks there (at least at the branch that I go to).
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by phoenix_rizzen · 2003-09-30 09:06 · Score: 1

If only. The library at the local university college has the worst hours of any library I've seen. It's only open 6 hours on weekends and holidays, and it closes between 7 and 9pm during the week. It's horrible.

And they're trying to push for full University status. [shakes head]
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by sketerpot · 2003-09-30 09:09 · Score: 1

Come on, I thought it was spelled fhqwghads!
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by phoenix_rizzen · 2003-09-30 09:15 · Score: 1

It might just be around here. The two public libraries here in town, and the ones in the two neighbouring cities (one smaller the other larger than us) are virtually the same. Haven't been to any of the large (> 1 million people) cities around here to compare to, though.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by cayenne8 · 2003-09-30 09:21 · Score: 1

Well, if they had been smart...and not had kids and family they couldn't afford...they wouldn't HAVE to work 2 jobs. If the fathers didn't run out on the wife and kids...most of them even with one kid wouldn't have to work 2 jobs.
Hey, life is tough, you have to live with your choices in life. Life doesn't owe you a thing, so, you have to live with your choices and work with what is thrown at you.
If you're not willing to do what has to be done to overcome your plight in life...then, you deserve to stay where you are.

--
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by dcmeserve · 2003-09-30 09:24 · Score: 3, Interesting

That's a great idea -- a set of GPL'd text books.
I think it would apply to grade school even more than college, for the same reason as why governments should only use open-source software: if you're using public money to pay for information products, shouldn't that information also be in the public domain?
School systems shouldn't be slaves to the big publishing companies that base their books' content on marketablility (e.g. making sure not to offend anyone, and raising the P.C.-ness level to the point where the texts are completely devoid of interesting content). A state's school system should be able to put a lot less money into some bargain-basement publisher who *just* does the job of printing the damn things; the savings could then go into a small staff of content writers/editors to accomodate whatever specializations their local culture calls for. And to contibute the the work as a whole.
Yeah, I like this idea a LOT.
Btw, another reason why it would be more applicable to grade school is that college texts tend to be much more specialized. Just as the most successful open src. projects are for those "fundamental" programs like OS, brower, etc., the most successful open-src texts would be the ones covering the fundamentals of math, science, etc.

--
"Orthodoxy is unconsciousness" - Orwell
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by mal3 · 2003-09-30 09:27 · Score: 1

"People that tear down others ideas for fun are called Devil's Advocates... or just fhwghads"

I always thought a "devils advocate" was someone you bounced your ideas off of so they could find problems with them and you could fix them before publishing, presenting, building, designing, coding, etc.

--
Non gratis rodentus anus
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by geekee · 2003-09-30 09:40 · Score: 1

" I've always wondered why teachers don't "open source" some text books."

Because no publisher would agree to print a textbook without the copyright. There is too much risk. eBooks may change things, however, and allow a GPL sort of model.

--
Vote for Pedro
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by now3djp · 2003-09-30 09:42 · Score: 1

Their HMTL is not standards compliant and contains no charset meta information. Try reading their Japanese and it comes out corrupted unless you can guess which Japanese supporting charset they are using! Unless it's all a game...?

aaOEaaa(C)a!

now3d
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by Minna+Kirai · 2003-09-30 09:50 · Score: 2, Insightful

angry students who were finding that their $150 Accounting 101 book became worthless after the sememster was over.

"Worthless"? Surely you meant "not resalable to next year's students".

A book's worth should be measured by its information content. If the knowledge a class presents is worth your spending $3000 in tuition, surely the keeping the textbook is worth more than the $50 you'd get selling it used.

If not, then I'd question why you bothered taking the course at all.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by km790816 · 2003-09-30 09:51 · Score: 2, Interesting

It's a racket, dude.

Text book writers update a small % of the actual content, but change all of the questions (slightly). Otherwise books would last for 10 years and they couldn't make money every year.

Intro EE hasn't changed much in the last 15 years. (What has could be handed out as a packet.) But new books were issued every 3.

Complete BS.

--
A speech...
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by lfm_the_couch · 2003-09-30 09:52 · Score: 1

Want to explain how the kid whose father ran out is "living with his own choice"?
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by krysith · 2003-09-30 09:53 · Score: 0

Very well put. And me without any mod points today...
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by symbolic · 2003-09-30 09:54 · Score: 1

I am left with the impression that the world of academic text books has become a racket. The fees for books are higher and higher, and it's not necessarily because the books are any better, or that they contain any astoundingly new information, it's because publishers can get away with it. Just like Universities can keep raising the cost of tuition, and at the same time, allowing their tenured 'teaching' staff to spend less time in the classroom (time for which students are paying big bucks), and more time publishing papers.

I remember reading a while ago about the push for e-text books, which, if widely adopted, would put an end to the textbook paradigm as we know it. You will no longer own a book, but be licensed to use the material for a semester. End of semester = end of material. I have no idea how much acceptance the e-textbook has gained over the past few years, but it's one of those things that could really change way we think of education.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by Disco+Stu · 2003-09-30 09:57 · Score: 1

The author of that link seems to assume that tuition is meant to pay for education, even at large univerities such as MIT, rather than a piece of paper.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by HeyLaughingBoy · 2003-09-30 10:10 · Score: 1

A book's worth should be measured by its information content. If the knowledge a class presents is worth your spending $3000 in tuition, surely the keeping the textbook is worth more than the $50 you'd get selling it used

I agree with the first part, but not the second. Some textbooks are useless, or just too dense to be comprehensible (books on feedback network theory come to mind), even though the class itself is very good. As an undergraduate I eventually learned to look through copies of books before I bought them. In some cases I never bought the text as I didn't see much substance there; in others the material was generic enough that I could borrow a similar book or older edition from the library for my own use when I needed to study. Homework problems: I could just borrow someone else's book or photocopy the relevant pages.

Didn't do this a lot, but it definitely saved me some money and taught me to look for alternate sources when studying a subject. That last bit was especially important when I returned for Master's.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by stanmann · 2003-09-30 10:25 · Score: 1

Yes, Traditionally the Devil's Advocate is someone selected because of his skill at debate and is required to argue the opposition in order to evaluate the possitive. A story is told of Churchill Debating a subject in School... I'm going from memory, so the details are fuzzy, anyway he debated the position so successfully that his opponent sat down knowing he was beaten. He then offered to swap positions and proceded to cut up the position he had just argued. That is the position of Devil's advocate, knowing the argument so well that whichever side of the debate you take, you can successfully defend the position.

but the devil's advocate position is always considered an ally, and doesn't attack, but probes...

--
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by rsheridan6 · 2003-09-30 10:37 · Score: 1

I've always wondered why teachers don't "open source" some text books. ... It almost seemed as if they were colluding with the publishers.
I think you've answered your own question. I took a class in high school, then again in college 2 years later that used the same book. There was a different edition out by then, but it was indistinguishable from the earlier one except for the cover art.
It makes sense. If you've got an audience that's forced to buy your book, why wouldn't you make the old one obsolete as soon as possible and force those students to buy new ones? I mean, if you're a greedy asshole, that is.

--
Don't drop the soap, Tommy!
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by bigbigbison · 2003-09-30 10:39 · Score: 2, Interesting

This would be really smart thing for particularly high schools and grade schools who every few years have to buy textbooks. With the school budgets so tight, it would seem obvious, hey let's write our own books. Or even all the schools in a state decide to write an open source Algebra One book.
I think the real reason that schools don't do this is that unfortunately too many school teachers aren't aware that the technology exists to do this cost effectively. So ironically the reason that the people who teach and inform people don't do this is ignorance.

--
http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by merger · 2003-09-30 10:40 · Score: 1

One thought I had towards funding the cost of the program is by the school selling book / reading packets of copyrighted materials that they cannot distribute freely. Include with that a cd-rom with the lecture videos when and other materials on the site.

The only concern I have regarding this model is that it provides an incentive to require copyrighted material even if it is inferior. One way of addressing this is to not profit from copyrighted materials but focus the profit on the cost of packaging materials. This results in lower profits but hopefully cheaper distribution which would benefit lower income people.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by Rallion · 2003-09-30 10:41 · Score: 1

Some teachers at my school DID used to do just that. Then they got sued. It just doesn't work that way. It's a rare professor who wants to waste their students' cash on books, but it's generally their only real option.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by footNipple · 2003-09-30 10:46 · Score: 1

I think you mean oppressed people.
I've worked one on one with hundreds and hundreds of poor people throughout the US. So I feel I'm qualified to make this assessment; as unfortunate as it is.
My view is that you can mainline all the critical information a person needs to elevate their lot in life directly into most of these folk's brains.
The end result is that nothing will happen. A vast majority of the "poor" do not have the intellectual tools to formulate the vision and world view necessary to achieve sustained success. Call it FATE, LUCK, and SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by KReilly · 2003-09-30 11:49 · Score: 1

Actually, the publishers and teachers are working together. The publishers pay the teachers to write and update their own text books, and in return the teacher requires the latest edition. It is a little hard for people like me to understand why no open sourced books have been developed because we should be supporting people going to college. Not taxing them with expensive book costs..
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 12:03 · Score: 0

VERY interesting.

I really thought teachers were interested in teaching their students, that they felt their mission in life was to spread knowlage. I guess I was wrong. I have seen this several times: Teachers recommending the books they have written, even when there are other cheaper (and maybe better) options.

A few years ago there was a teacher on my university that made his already cheap maths book freely available on the internet. This really pissed some of his colleagues off, because of course their sales went down. I know we had a maths lecture once when our (evil) teacher bullshited about this free book and explained how bad it was, and there wasn't any point in even looking at it.

He wanted us to of course buy his maths book instead, I wish I hadn't listened to him, try to read an linear algebra book without any prior knowlage and without any picture illustrations, only explaining text. Why the hell didn't I look at the free book first?
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 12:33 · Score: 0

Try going to any decent library. Plenty of open-sourced books are there.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by Ohreally_factor · 2003-09-30 12:41 · Score: 0

If the kid was modded up enough in a previous life, he would have been born to wealthier parents.

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It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by Eil · 2003-09-30 12:50 · Score: 1

I know you were joking with this, but a lot of people forget that the most important cost of education is not money, it is time. Any sufficiently-motivated individual can go to the library and learn stuff that could rival a college education. In my local library, I happened to be looking at the computer books and marveled that I could have a halfway decent background on software engineering (minus practical experience of course) if I had the time to page through dozens upon dozens of books. However, what most of us have in short supply, the poor have even less of: time. A lot of them, if not most, work like 50 hours a week and have to take care of a family.

Most of the people that I've heard of using this MIT OCW stuff are already overachieving 4.0 students looking to supplement their current classes. I took a look at some of the OCW content previously and didn't see much that would help me any except for the SICP book which has already been around for ages.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by ncc74656 · 2003-09-30 14:45 · Score: 1

Well if learning is your goal, your local public college is the place. the library is typically open past 1am, and unless you want to take books with you, is free to non-students.

Some university libraries (such as this one) allow non-students to check out materials...typically under more restrictive terms (2 weeks at a time with only one or two consective renewals, vs. 3 weeks at a time and unlimited renewals), but you can't have everything. There's definitely much more useful material in there than in the public libraries, which seem to be more about fancy buildings, art displays, etc. than books these days. (And they wonder why citizens keep voting down tax increases and bond issues that would increase library funding...)

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20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by Lord_Dweomer · 2003-09-30 15:00 · Score: 1

"It sounds just as romantic as the quote I am responding to, but it's true; if you plug someone in to the internet, they can learn about almost anything they want and in all probability be great at it - they just have to work."
Reminds me of the scene in Fifth Element where the girl gets onto the computer and is learning the entire history of humanity. And then learns kung fu and other skills.

--
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by Roark+Meets+Dent · 2003-09-30 15:08 · Score: 1

"Many men of course became extremely rich, but this was perfectly natural and nothing to be ashamed of because no one was really poor, at least no one worth speaking of." - Douglas Adams
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by ncc74656 · 2003-09-30 15:13 · Score: 1

angry students who were finding that their $150 Accounting 101 book became worthless after the sememster was over.

"Worthless"? Surely you meant "not resalable to next year's students".
A book's worth should be measured by its information content. If the knowledge a class presents is worth your spending $3000 in tuition, surely the keeping the textbook is worth more than the $50 you'd get selling it used.

It depends on the subject matter. While I kept all (or nearly all) of my computer-science textbooks, I got rid of most books in every other subject (all the books they'd buy back, at least). While I've occasionally referred to CS texts in my work, I don't think I'd have much ongoing use for books on (for instance) macroeconomics or sociology. They might've been interesting to thumb through at some future date, but the $$$ recovered was more useful at the time.

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20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by stanmann · 2003-09-30 16:59 · Score: 1

Ok, so poor may last one generation, born poor, sweat hard impart learning values, 80 hour week, keep the kids in school, by the time retirement comes, the kids take care of you... thats the story of immigration 1900-1925.

THE AMERICAN DREAM Pehaps you have heard of it. It's still alive.

--
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by stanmann · 2003-09-30 17:08 · Score: 1

The average person in the US, poor or not is perfectly happy with bread and circuses ie 3 squares a day and Cable tv.
And IMHO that's fine. IF you don't have the "want to" to get past that... so be it. The climate today hasn't changed substantially in 225 years with the "want to" you can have whatever catches your fancy, legally. Someone yesterday mentioned starting a business and making a small fortune on a couple hundred bucks. I have the "know how"(generally) to do that, I don't have the "want to"... so I'm sitting here happy with 11 computers, fast internet and living "paycheck to paycheck" ... sure if I really wanted to put in the 80 hours a week for a few years, I could be independantly wealthy, but going to work every day isn't all bad...

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Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by God!+Awful+2 · 2003-09-30 18:12 · Score: 1

Ahh... if only this had been available during my university days. I would never have flunked out if I hadn't been too cheap to buy the textbooks. And if you took them out of the library, you had to give them back the next day. Of course, if this had been available during my university days, I probably would have been too cheap to go to university as well.

-a

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/. users can't
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 19:30 · Score: 0

What did they get sued for? Copying material from another book? Not following the required curriculum? Pissing off a coauthor or a publisher?
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by DZign · 2003-09-30 20:02 · Score: 1

You've forgot: add a few small changes, and make sure you ask about these on exams,
so every student knows he has to learn the new book or have a bad exam..

--
Learn about pinball machines on www.flippers.be
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by Anonymous Coward · 2003-10-01 00:55 · Score: 0

Worse still is the case where your professor includes one of their own works as required reading for their course.

That steams me, and I can't believe they get away with such an obvious conflict of interest.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by Anonymous Coward · 2003-10-01 01:17 · Score: 0

I see your university taught you well. You even learned how to spell "knowledge". As for linear algebra, my teacher was terrible and I managed to get through it by reading the book only. With a little dedication it can be done.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by HostileTarget · 2003-10-01 02:09 · Score: 1

My experience from TA'ing courses for 5 semesters has shown me that the books switch for mainly three reasons. Professors for courses often change from year to year, resulting in different emphasis in materials. Publishers keep releasing new editions (with extra material and corrections) to promote sales. And the professor always hates the text book so it is a never-ending juggle to find the perfect resource. Personally, I appreciate the professors who are honest enough to say they don't like the text, aren't using it and see no reason why I should buy it.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by JWhitlock · 2003-10-01 04:57 · Score: 1

ahhh.. yes i was waiting for that point to be made... you forget the public library!
Yes! Just take MIT Course 0-101: How to Hack. It will teach you how to get past a locked-down Windows box, how to install Cygwin, and how to get a decent set of programming tools, so that you actually do the assignments for the other courses.
Sorry, you still need an actual open computer to take a lot of programming courses. The library will be good for some of it, but to get the vital practice you need a computer. Luckily, you can buy a WalMart PC running Linux after only about a month of working minimum wage part-time!
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by Joe+Tie. · 2003-10-03 14:25 · Score: 1

I too think this has been changing, and I do applaud it. But I'm less optamistic about the speed this is progressing at. Having the knowledge out there is great, but I don't think many employers are going to care what the applicant knows. Rather they'll take that as secondary to what degree he or she has, and what school it came from. But at least this does allow for practical application of things learned through these open courses - such as starting ones own company if he could somehow gather up enough money. But in any case, I'd say that even having a chance to learn is almost as valuable as being able to elivate ones social class. I'd say I'm lower middle class, struggling to pay my way through school, and I easily consider what I've learned to be of just as much importance as any monitary gain I might get from it in the long run.

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Everything will be taken away from you.
Re:Hopefully this will start a trend by Joe+Tie. · 2003-10-03 14:56 · Score: 1

Why take the classes if I don't care about the subject? Personally, much of it for me comes down to prereqs. While many of them I've learned to acquire an interest in, there's still some which I will never feel any desire to think about after I've finished them. But I don't have much of a choice in the matter, either I take the class or don't graduate. In a similar vein, I also am going to wind up taking some extra credit hours near the end so my scholership, grants, and loans will all be able to continue going through. I'm really hoping I can find classes that are interesting and available at hours I can fit in, but I might just as easily find myself at Folf 101.

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Everything will be taken away from you.

Here it is by Sir+Haxalot · 2003-09-30 07:37 · Score: 1

On CNET News

--
I have over 70 freaks, do you?

Finally Some Old news by cyberlotnet · 2003-09-30 07:39 · Score: 0, Flamebait

This is old news, was in Wired at least 2 months ago and at that point they had thousands of users worldwide already.

I think they need to add another layer to story submissions.

BS/DP/ON Checker
BS - BullShi!
DP - Dup Post
ON - OLD News

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Personal Website

Re:Finally Some Old news by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:46 · Score: 0

You get what you pay for.
Re:Finally Some Old news by ragingmime · 2003-09-30 08:08 · Score: 1

The news is that they reached the 500-course mark, not that they opened up the library. That news was released yesterday.

In case you're wondering, the Wired article (printed in the Semptember issue) is here, and the September OpenCourseWare newsletter is here. At the time that it was published, OCW only offered 262 courses. I agree that MIT adding more courses to OCW isn't exactly earthshattering news, but it is a recent thing.

--
I produce electronic music and write little games. Have a look.

Am I missing something? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:39 · Score: 0

Am I missing what the value of any of this is? I don't see lecture notes on most of them and the lecture notes that I found are mostly chicken scratch. I think is just a lot of hot air.

Re:Am I missing something? by mrtroy · 2003-09-30 07:52 · Score: 1

Look a little closer.

Professor Strang's Class 18.06 Linear Algebra Lecture Videos, Fall 1999

You may just be following the links in the description. Try the left side frame for the whole course materials.

--
[I can picture a world without war, without hate. I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it]
Re:Am I missing something? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:59 · Score: 0

I was clicking on the left links. That one must be the exception because I couldn't find anything else like that. Some of the courses have nothing more than a syllabus.
Re:Am I missing something? by I8TheWorm · 2003-09-30 08:22 · Score: 1

Some of them have audio as well. Besides, any amount of free education is good, as far as I'm concerned.

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Saying Android is a family of phones is akin to saying Linux is a family of PCs.

Booyah! by DrFlex · 2003-09-30 07:39 · Score: 0

Now I too can go from anonymous Joe to super-Genius and seduce J.Lo.

Oh wait.

Re:Booyah! by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:11 · Score: 0

Now I too can go from anonymous Joe to super-Genius and seduce J.Lo.
Have you seen Ben Afleck. It is obvious she don't go for the uber geek type....
Re:Booyah! by DrFlex · 2003-09-30 08:16 · Score: 0

Hmmm I will explain my joke to some of you that seem retarded.

In this joke I mix reality and fiction by proposing that the caracter of Matt Damon gets together with J.Lo after everybody finds out that he is a genius.

The magnificent part of this joke is that it is not Matt but Ben Affleck (the co-star) that actually gets with J.Lo in real life.

I mix up the roles and their lives as well!!!

Doubelo-mix-up-joka-powa!!!

neato by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:40 · Score: 0

hmm. sounds like a job for wget. :)

Super! by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:40 · Score: 0

LS1084 - L337 5p34k Introduction to "Leet Speak" and tool creation. The student will learn how to convert normal text file to "Leet Speak" using sed.

Public Library, Public School, Public MIT by stanmann · 2003-09-30 07:40 · Score: 1

Great, WIll they publish Open Courseware degrees too. That would be Great... Yeah.

I went to MIT and have my masters in CS, Mathematics, Physics, and Organic Chemistry.

WHOOHOOO!!!

--
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed

Finally, you too... by Atario · 2003-09-30 07:41 · Score: 4, Funny

...can feel dumb in the privacy of your own home.

--
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt

Where is Computer Graphics? by ggambett · 2003-09-30 07:41 · Score: 1

The most similar I can find is Animation Techniques, and it's not as similar as I'm looking for :(

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My website

Re:Where is Computer Graphics? by SmackCrackandPot · 2003-09-30 07:53 · Score: 0

Try reading the ACM SIGGRAPH and IEEE Papers for the last few years. A good deal of papers have been describing techniques that can be implemented using consumer graphics hardware.
Re:Where is Computer Graphics? by ggambett · 2003-09-30 07:57 · Score: 1

You're right, but I do collect papers and lecture notes from several universities. A Computer Graphics course from MIT would be a great addition.

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My website

Physiology in EECS department? by stroustrup · 2003-09-30 07:41 · Score: 2, Interesting

6.021J Quantitative Physiology: Cells and Tissues Fall 2002
is listed in EECS department. Can someone explain this?

--

If you lost your job today, don't despair. You may die tomorrow anyway.

Re:Physiology in EECS department? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:47 · Score: 0

For the bio-electrical engineering crowd.

(That's a possible EE concentration; the MIT EECS department has a very broad set of courses...)
Re:Physiology in EECS department? by YetAnotherAnonymousC · 2003-09-30 07:59 · Score: 1

As someone mentioned, it's part of a bioengineering concentration.

It's not just a EECS class, though. The "J" means it's a joint class (in this case with the ME and HST departments). There's a slew of three or four of these joint bioengineering classes. This one in particular has an EECS guy as the head prof, though.
Re:Physiology in EECS department? by jat2 · 2003-09-30 08:36 · Score: 1

The EECS department is bigger than the entire school of engineering at many other schools. They have the resources to be very broad in their definition of "EECS".
Re:Physiology in EECS department? by thoth · 2003-09-30 10:18 · Score: 1

Maybe that is a interdepartment course for biomedical engineers (?).

Along the same lines, 2 intro to quantum physics classes are under "Chemistry".
Re:Physiology in EECS department? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 13:22 · Score: 0

Quantitative Physiology is taught by Denny Freeman who took over the course from his advisor Tom Weiss who wrote an excellent two volume textbook on 'Cellular Biophysics'. The first volume is on 'Transport' and the second is on 'Electrical' properties. The text takes an approach which is based on the physical interpretation of the time evolution of the solutions to the governing differential equations (good stuff for EECS types who are interested in Signals & Systems).

The course stems from a nearly 50 year research program in 'Auditory Physiology' at the Research Laboratory of Electronics. The 'engineers' who were trained at RLE learned to apply the quanitative methods of engineering and the physical sciences to biological problems. Inside of RLE, both Tom and Denny where trained in the inter-institutional Eaton-Peabody Laboratory, which served as the training ground of for dozens of well known researchers (including the founder of the Biomedical Engineering Department at Johns Hopkins). The modern version of this training philosophy is characterized by the HST Speech and Hearing Bioscience and Technology Program.

IMO by novakane007 · 2003-09-30 07:41 · Score: 2, Insightful

This has to be one of the coolest ideas I've seen in a long time! Education without borders. Kudos to MIT!

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WURD!!

Re:IMO by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:05 · Score: 0

I wholeheartedly second that.
Re:IMO by Trigun · 2003-09-30 08:29 · Score: 1

And education without diplomas!
(But who said that a diploma and an education go hand in hand? That's right, my boss.)

Not particularly useful without a teacher by Brahmastra · 2003-09-30 07:41 · Score: 4, Insightful

A lot of the course notes aren't particularly useful without a teacher actually explaining things to you. For example, look at the following link .
While some of the notes may be useful and educational, I don't think it replaces a real, live professor explaning things and available to answer questions.

Re:Not particularly useful without a teacher by stonebeat.org · 2003-09-30 07:46 · Score: 2, Interesting

you can email the faculty member associated with the course, and you will get a prompt reply. I have always received a reply same day.
offcourse this not same as learning in a classroom. But you cant have that for free. You need to pay for that. Professors need to make a living as well.

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Consensus is good, but informed dictatorship is better
Re:Not particularly useful without a teacher by stienman · 2003-09-30 07:52 · Score: 2, Interesting

More useful to the internet denizen would be free online textbooks. They can, for many people, replace the teacher. The last bit that remains missing could easily be filled by a mentor - even if they aren't local.

Notice how the Linux and other free software/open source software communities have online How-tos, books, and free mentoring? One of the keys to success for many organizations is educating its users, and providing easy education to potential users.

MIT isn't just doing this out of the goodness of its heart - but hopefully other institutions will follow suit. Hopefully free or very cheap broadband will come about, with a computer in every household. Every person can become whatever they want --> Which may not be a good thing for some people, but it is, after all, their decision.

Freedom to learn.

-Adam
Re:Not particularly useful without a teacher by f97tosc · 2003-09-30 07:52 · Score: 4, Interesting

A lot of the course notes aren't particularly useful without a teacher actually explaining things to you. For example, look at the following link . While some of the notes may be useful and educational, I don't think it replaces a real, live professor explaning things and available to answer questions.

1. I don't think anybody was suggesting that this should replace real profs at MIT. This is extra resources for people outside of universities, who don't have the option of talking to a prof.

2 Personally, I actually disagree with your point. I have found that I learn the most reading and solving problems, not when I listen to somebody talking (especially not in the big lecture format).

Tor
Re:Not particularly useful without a teacher by bmj · 2003-09-30 07:59 · Score: 1

More useful to the internet denizen would be free online textbooks.

Yes, they would. But, when were you at university last? Textbooks, especially the hardcover types used in the scientific disciplines, aren't cheap. I'm sure there are freely distributable textbooks for the sciences (or any type of course), but that would require the professors agreeing to use these instead of many of the tried and true standards. I'm sure MIT would love to provide copies of the textbook, but they just can't.

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Whereof we cannot speak, thereof we must be silent. --Ludwig Wittgenstein
Re:Not particularly useful without a teacher by urbazewski · 2003-09-30 08:03 · Score: 1

Plus, a lot of the classes don't have any notes at all --- just a syllabus, reading list and some assignments, nothing that modern professors don't already have on their website. It is nice to have big catalog accessible in one place, but I'm hoping that this will encourage to professors at MIT to put more of the content of the class online, and encourage other universities to come up with similar cataloging systems.

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foldplay your photos won't know what hit them.
Re:Not particularly useful without a teacher by MisanthropicProggram · 2003-09-30 08:10 · Score: 1

Textbooks, especially the hardcover types used in the scientific disciplines, aren't cheap
Yeah, that's what's really killing me now. Which I guess publishers charge a lot because they can. I had to take a C++ class and the book required by the university went for $90 to cover the same material that your typical O'Reilly book does for $40.

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There is no spoon or sig.
Re:Not particularly useful without a teacher by AxelTorvalds · 2003-09-30 09:01 · Score: 1

It's extremely useful. Now I'm not so sure I think much of the "people without access to MIT profs can learn" theory. It's nice in a romantic way to think about inner city kids learning to be the equal to MIT grads by studying this material and I think there is a certain geek appeal to the more reclusive geek variety that don't like to ask questions in classes and generally only like to work on things by themselves. This is no substitute for a college education, especially not an MIT or some other upper echelon school education.
It's really useful though. I have all my course notes from CMU, most are typed up, they are all sorted out in an anal sort of way and I've gone back to them regularly during my professional career. You end up solving the same problems. They are valuble to me and I'd never bring them in to my place of work. THis starts to fill that void a little bit, it's not the same but it's nice to have access to. If other schools jump on board it could be really useful.
Put the Stevens books in to digital form and I don't need a book at work for anything, I have access to it all online. Very cool, only been talking about paperless offices for about 30 years now. Nice to see a little progress.
Re:Not particularly useful without a teacher by sisukapalli1 · 2003-09-30 09:42 · Score: 1

I think the main advantage is that teachers all over the world have the option of incorporating parts of the MIT notes and curriculum into their classes.

So, if a low end school has a fresh teacher (typically someone who just finished undergrad), he or she can focus on understanding the content and teach it -- avoiding the added burden of creating new course material (which would likely be of inferior quality).

S
Re:Not particularly useful without a teacher by N7DR · 2003-09-30 10:05 · Score: 1

When I saw that this had been posted on slashdot, I thought "Ah! So MIT has finally come through and put lecture notes on the Web". But no, it all still looks more or less as it the last time I checked, several weeks ago.
Doubtless some of the courses have enough information available to make them useful, but the status of the courses that I would be interested in (mostly math/physics) is still essentially useless. To take a typical example, Quantum Physics II, which would be a good refresher for me, has only "Syllabus, Calendar, Assignments".
So high marks go to MIT for pioneering the concept, but not even a passing grade for execution if they aren't going to do the job properly. I guess I have to say that I find it a little bothering that I have seen lots of praise for MIT for doing this, but no criticism of the amount of information that they're actually putting online. I do recognise that to do the job properly is a daunting task, and maybe the lack of content is merely becuase it's such early days, but I wish I could feel more confident that a lot of the "courses" aren't simply going to consist of a shell with a few web pages of minimal content.
Re:Not particularly useful without a teacher by goliard · 2003-09-30 11:55 · Score: 1

A lot of the course notes aren't particularly useful without a teacher actually explaining things to you. [...] While some of the notes may be useful and educational, I don't think it replaces a real, live professor explaning things and available to answer questions.

Well, no, but then replacing real, live professors is not the point. I consider it, in part, an FM to R before hastling a person with ignorant questions.
Case in point: I discovered that a topic I'm interested is considered an obscure sub-branch of the field of anthropology. I have friends who are anthropologists, and they're happy to answer my questions until the cows come home (and talk about their research until long after that), but the one question they don't have a handy answer to and never have time to work up is this:
What are the foundational texts of this field, which I have to read to get just enough broad overview (to then be able to follow the specialty discussions I'm interested in), and to provide me with a "score-card" of "schools of thought" so I can keep track to the sides in various academic debates?

In short, I needed the syllabus and bibliography of a "Anthropology 101" undergrad course, which focused on theory and not practice. Lo! I have all I requested.

--
-*- Any technology indistinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced -*-
Re:Not particularly useful without a teacher by goliard · 2003-09-30 12:02 · Score: 1

P.S.
In short, I needed the syllabus and bibliography of a "Anthropology 101" undergrad course, which focused on theory and not practice. Lo! I have all I requested.

Oh, and I just discovered this course that I am so interested in? Enrollment is limited to Anthropology Majors and Minors. So even when I was an MIT undergrad, I wouldn't have been able to take this course. Let's hear it for the MIT OCW!

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-*- Any technology indistinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced -*-
Re:Not particularly useful without a teacher by Tracy2112 · 2003-09-30 12:26 · Score: 1

No doubt about it -- while a prof adds some value, I'd far rather take a course without a "teacher" than without a textbook.

My dad, formerly a professor of Physics at Hobart, Princeton, etc., has a great (though not original) definition of "lecture":

The process by which information gets from a paper in front of the lecturer to the papers in front of the students without passing through the mind of either.
Re:Not particularly useful without a teacher by Ohreally_factor · 2003-09-30 13:08 · Score: 0

That's a great reading list. Perhaps someday all the reading material will be online as well! Hopefully for free, as in beer.

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It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.

Faculty members are very helpful too by stonebeat.org · 2003-09-30 07:43 · Score: 4, Interesting

I started going through one of the course few months back. And one few ocassions I email the instructors, for clarifications/explanations. And I always got a prompt reply. Even though I am not paying anything to MIT.

--

Consensus is good, but informed dictatorship is better

Re:Faculty members are very helpful too by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:48 · Score: 1, Insightful

well, you just fucked yourself buddy! /. the professors!
Re:Faculty members are very helpful too by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:52 · Score: 0

You left out the part where you used an open proxy and spoofed an @mit.edu email account.
Do not even think about emailing me again you bastard.

- Noam Chomsky
Re:Faculty members are very helpful too by MisanthropicProggram · 2003-09-30 07:53 · Score: 1

Really ?!? Do they know that you're not a student?!? Or do you think that they are just happy that you're showing an interest in their subject?
When I saw this article, I thought, "That's great and everything, but I need feedback from a teacher or someone versed in the subject to make sure I'm not misunderstanding things. Which I do often. :-) Otherwise, what makes their courses any better than any other university/college? - besides requiring Advanced Calculus to take basket weaving :-P

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There is no spoon or sig.
Re:Faculty members are very helpful too by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:18 · Score: 0

Looks to me that if I paid the close to $100 for the required textbook for one of the classes (written by the teacher) I would deserve to have a few questions answered too.
Re:Faculty members are very helpful too by roalt · 2003-09-30 17:43 · Score: 1

Haha, great, I'm out of mod-points, so please mod-up this Cow...

I'm still waiting on Richard Stallman's Guide... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:43 · Score: 0

How to Get Laid, For Nerds.

Or was that Richard Feyneman? I forget...

Most schools have these by GillBates0 · 2003-09-30 07:44 · Score: 3, Interesting

Most schools have their class pages online. For example, take a look at the College of Computing, Georgia Tech's classes page here.

Most of them carry assignments, solutions, sample exams, and readings similar to the MIT Open Courseware site....and they're publicly available too.

What was lacking was a common index to campus-wide pages, and a standard format for all of them. When individual professors/TA's put up their class pages, their formats are not standardized, nor are they always upto date (for example, if an assignment was a handout).

From a superficious look at some Electrical Engg and Computer Science classes, I think the MIT folks have basically indexed all the pages, standardized the format, and made sure they are all uptodate.

/end rant

--
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam

Re:Most schools have these by pbemfun · 2003-09-30 08:00 · Score: 1

Most of the University of Akron's profs have their lecture notes available online now. I'm sure most schools do this for students who miss class, etc. You can check out UofA's at http://www.cs.uakron.edu/ (the comp sci dept at least)
Re:Most schools have these by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:11 · Score: 2, Insightful

> What was lacking was a common index to campus-wide pages, and a standard format for all of them.
True enough. But the thing that's the most sorely lacking is online access to textbooks.
There are many great out-of-print textbooks that will never be seen by human eyes again, because their publishers steadfastly refuse to allow them to be republished in any medium. That is a moral outrage, and it shows a deep flaw in the concept of copyright.
As a result, a new generation of textbooks must be developed specifically for free online usage. MIT's course notes are a start in that direction.
The copyright monopoly system has robbed us of a staggering amount of information. Slowly, in the coming years, we will rebuild, and we will recover from the terrible loss we have suffered.
Re:Most schools have these by madenosine · 2003-09-30 08:55 · Score: 2, Insightful

Well, not really....most course pages cannot be read at all on their own. Many only contain the sylabus and announcements (while there are, or course, some exceptions). OCW puts (at least) the basic concepts online and makes them availible to all. Most professors have written up new problem sets and tests specially for OCW. Also, some courses also have videos online (ex: 18.06 and 8.02). (A lot of courses are only able to provide videos to students because allowing public access would be a violation of copyright laws for materials they use during the lectures.)

Regardless, it is a major step up from simply indexing the pages (these are not the course webpages anyways.) Fairly soon, 1,800 classes (out of 2,000) will be availible. (the other 200 are discussion classes) ...although my view of "soon" may be permanently skewed by blizzard...
Re:Most schools have these by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:58 · Score: 0

"out-of-print textbooks"

Since I'm an editor at a large US publishing company, I thought I'd point out that by contract "out-of-print" means that the author can request that their rights be reverted (this is a standard clause in almost every publishing agreement. The agreement remains in effect only so long as the publisher is actively selling the work. And even in the days of print on demand and ebooks, it's not worth our bother to squat on an authors work for US$100/year.)

Once authors have their rights back, they're free to do whatever they want with them. I've had a number of my authors publish their old, out-of-print books online, and no one at my company had an ounce of concern about this practice. Once the book is OP, what do we care what our authors do with them?
Re:Most schools have these by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 09:40 · Score: 0

The computer science department at my university has always put notes online, but now the university (along with other universities) are switching to a common system called Classfronter that is very good.

It's a kind of portal for the students. You just log in and get an overview over your current courses, with messages from the administration, email, lecture notes, forums, chatrooms, and it's also the place where you upload your course assignments.
Re:Most schools have these by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 16:15 · Score: 0

courses.cs.vt.edu - all of Virginia Tech's computer science courses, usually 2 - 5 semesters' worth, publicly accessible

cool :) by eeyoredragon · 2003-09-30 07:45 · Score: 1

I think this is great. I love to read about all sorts of odd topics, and it's a pain to sift through so much information on the internet, decide how correct it is, etc. This is a great way to learn more without spending money for those of us that are not particularly learning to gain employment, but just because it's entertaining and enlightening. Kudos. :D

Imagine that.. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:46 · Score: 0

..free distribution of information. I only wish other organizations would pioneer programs such as this. Hats off to MIT for doing yet another great service to the public.

How do ya like them appels, fellowes? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:48 · Score: 0

I think you have a problem confusing reality and movies. You'd end up with Minnie Driver

Nuclear engineering 101, anyone? by chopper749 · 2003-09-30 07:49 · Score: 5, Funny

Just what the world needed! Free Nuclear Engineering classes! From the comfort of your own 3rd world country!

Re:Nuclear engineering 101, anyone? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:56 · Score: 0, Flamebait

When a raghead is detected accessing the site the CIA uses a satelite based laser to vaporise them instantly.
Re:Nuclear engineering 101, anyone? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 11:28 · Score: 0

let's hope the software blows out and gets you in the process.

Great by mst76 · 2003-09-30 07:49 · Score: 1

Sign me up for 22.33 Nuclear Systems Design Project.

one problem by vraddict · 2003-09-30 07:53 · Score: 5, Insightful

The fact that the information is available, and even the fact that you can gain access to the instructors for clarification still does not put everyone on an even playing field. The one thing that most people seem to care about are degrees and resumes. The poorest yet most intelligent person in the world could study these courses, and gain an equivalent education to those with degrees, and could even possibly surpass their abilities. It won't do them any good in the present state to learn structural engineering, but not have a degree.

Re:one problem by australopithecus · 2003-09-30 07:59 · Score: 1

thank you for making my point a bit clearer.
Re:one problem by rd4tech · 2003-09-30 10:19 · Score: 0

yeah, tell me about it :/ the problem about that problem is that once one is our of school, and is poor, he don't have time to pursue intelectual upgrading, so he's left behind.
Re:one problem by rsheridan6 · 2003-09-30 10:44 · Score: 1

Is this as true in the 3rd world as it is here in the US?

--
Don't drop the soap, Tommy!
Re:one problem by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 11:33 · Score: 0

However, you could learn everything before going to college, enroll at 21 credit hours a semester and lower your University cost by graduating in 5 semesters instead of 8.

Free As In Beer... by John+Hasler · 2003-09-30 07:53 · Score: 0, Flamebait

...but not as in speech (or software). They don't quite get it yet.

--
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.

Re:Free As In Beer... by Xerithane · 2003-09-30 08:46 · Score: 1

...but not as in speech (or software). They don't quite get it yet.

Don't get what yet?

I'm pretty sure that MIT contributes more than you ever will. I think it's you who don't get "it."

--
Dacels Jewelers can't be trusted.

no certificate granted.. bummer by thePredator · 2003-09-30 07:53 · Score: 0

that sucks they dont issue any certificates...

Books by cybermace5 · 2003-09-30 07:55 · Score: 2, Insightful

Many of the courses I looked at had a decent amount of information, but you really couldn't understand what was going on without the book. Engineering texts still cost $60 to $200 these days.

I will probably go through some of these as handy little refresher courses, since I already have books and can get by. But if you go through some of these courses and learned only what is in the notes and handouts, don't consider yourself an MIT graduate yet.

--
...

Now teachers can cheat as well by Jjaks · 2003-09-30 07:56 · Score: 1

This makes it possible for teachers to steal lectures, handouts and lab assigments just as students have been able to plagiarize the work of others for years. Finally some equality restored!

More seriously, if publishing course materials this way becomes a trend, it will become much easier to compare different educational establishments even across national borders.

Re:Now teachers can cheat as well by SAFH · 2003-09-30 08:50 · Score: 1

If you copy (steal) from one resource, it's plagiarism.

If you copy from multiple resources, it's research :) MIT is well aware of this concept.

--
I cannot confirm nor deny the allegation or allegations you may or may not have just made
Re:Now teachers can cheat as well by daveb · 2003-09-30 10:11 · Score: 1

Cheat? or efficiently use resources? Is sharing & borrowing/reusing code cheating?

I teach a few papers in the Data Comms & networking area. When I have to prepare a new lecture one of the first things I do is to search for other lecturers material. I then look at it and think - "yeah that's a cool way of presenting the topic" or do a quick reject. I don't take anyone's work outright and present it as mine, I always try to reference - but I have no pangs of guilt that I'm cheating.

I think I've only once used someone elses material in toto - and I got their permission for that.

Now - If I was presenting someone else work as my own - or if I didn't understand the stuff I was teaching, now THAT is cheating.

And failing to reference who's neat stuff you're using - THAT is plagiarizing.

But including other peoples material is just plain sensible.

now ... time to do a google search of "ATM filtype:PPT"

Try 8.02 by Merlin42 · 2003-09-30 07:56 · Score: 2, Informative

They video taped an entire semester and it is available via realplayer!

I have been 'auditing' it in my spare time for a couple weeks now.

--
Thoughts on tech, Software Engineering, and stuff

New t-shirt by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:56 · Score: 1, Funny

I took an MIT course on OCW ...and failed.

This is great by StewedSquirrel · 2003-09-30 07:57 · Score: 1

In the day of "intellectual property" where one of my University courses had in big bold letters right below the professors name:

This material copyrighted and for internal use by students of [University] currently enrolled in [class]. Violators will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

and then proceeded to list very little more than the course outline with a few isolated powerpoint slides he used in class a few times.

Then again, this particular professor was a [censored]. :-)

Stewey

--
There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Re:Hopefully this will start a (x1488) by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:57 · Score: 0

Whatever. The fact is, learning needs a sponsor. Someone to provide money to support the student, feed him, and pay for the tutor who needs to correct his work. This does nothing towards that. Billy Gates has done more in the right direction.

Syllabi and lecture notes are great, but it's the problem sets where you really learn the material--any math/sci student at a top university will tell you that. And if there's no one to grade your papers, you're missing a whole lot.

So, what we need is more need-based scholarships. It might be popular to criticize the current normal modes of education, but the fact is that it works.

Which now makes you... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 07:58 · Score: 0

I went to MIT and have my masters in CS, Mathematics, Physics, and Organic Chemistry.

... an ideal targeted "person of interest" to profile in the War on Terrorism.
Smile!

Good news for some by gbulmash · 2003-09-30 07:58 · Score: 2, Informative

> This is old news, was in Wired at least 2 months ago and at that point they had thousands of users worldwide already.

The news is that they reached the 500-course mark, not that they opened up the library. That news was released yesterday.

This is actually a very neat proposition, but it requires a lot of DIY go-getter attitude. Though some may get responses from MIT professors, you have no access to MIT facilities (try some of the Physics/Chem/Engineering labs at home) and no guarantee of access to profs or TA's to answer your questions.

And also remember that none of the information in these courses is stuff that the world never knew before. It gathers it together and provides a framework for self-study. The lecture notes and the professors' insights in them add value. But these do not make this a quantum leap above just burying your nose in books at the library.

I had a Lit prof in college. In communist China, it was decided he was not university material and he was sent to work on a farm. While there he taught himself English and Russian, read voraciously, and wrote critical papers of such quality that his self-directed, spare-time work was sufficient to be considered equivalent to full undergrad studies. He was eventually admitted to a graduate program in Literature, skipping an undergraduate university program.

This is the kind of person - with the intelligence, attitude, and drive to take advantage of this - for whom MIT's open courseware would be a Godsend. But people like him would still do a lot of it with or without the MIT materials available.

For most of the public, i.e. the ones who weren't self-teaching themselves before, it is and will remain merely a curiosity.

Greg

--
Start a happiness pandemic

Optimist/Pessimist by boatboy · 2003-09-30 07:58 · Score: 4, Funny

The optimist in me says 'I always wanted to know more about the adiabatic approximation and Berry's phase.' The pessimist says 'methinks this will only lead to an increase in the number of people who think they know what they are talking about.'

Re:Optimist/Pessimist by joib · 2003-09-30 22:59 · Score: 1

Well since you asked.. :), I find it somewhat strange that these two topics are bundled together like that. The adiabatic approximation is really QM 101-level material, while understanding Berry phase is IMHO quite difficult. And note, it's "Berry phase", not "Berry's phase". The Berry phase approach is probably most famous for it's central part in the modern quantum mechanical theory of polarization. In case you're interested, a review of the topic can be found in e.g.

Resta: "Macroscopic Polarization in Crystalline Dielectrics: The Geometric Phase Approach" Rev. Mod. Phys. 66, 899 (1994)

Linux documentation by slux · 2003-09-30 08:01 · Score: 3, Interesting

I think GNU/Linux and other free software is a great example of how well the internet can work as a learning tool. We have the Linux Documentation Project, man pages and of course the actual source code. You can easily learn very advanced stuff without buying a single book or attending a single lecture. Why couldn't this be true for other areas as well? The information just needs to be there. I understand Stallman very well when he says that documentation should be free too (FDL).

Re:Linux documentation by Red+Avenger · 2003-09-30 08:50 · Score: 1

Yeah its great that MIT's OCW was built using Microsoft Software. Good job linux for enabling this.

Incomplete offerings by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:02 · Score: 0

I'm unable to find "C Programming" in the Foreign Languages and Literatures category.

The internet will cure all poverty. by wongaboo · 2003-09-30 08:03 · Score: 1

The sentiment that the internet will eradicate poverty is not only wrongheaded it can be dangerous. The internet is not a meaningful option to those who live in true poverty. Most of the people who live in our world do not have running water, a reliable food source and have a family member who has AIDS. The solutions to these problems are equally straight forward, provide or provide the tools to: bring them food, water, and medication/prophylactics. Education is certainly a key to prosperity but there is little the internet can offer those without food much less electricity. Now there are a limited amount of resources available to address the problems of poverty, limited at the UN, limited at OxFam, limited at MIT. What then should they invest their money in if the goal is eradicating poverty? While the answer may seem obvious there is real money being shifted from providing plumbing, etc, to providing information infrastructures in non industrialized nations (and if you think the last mile problem is bad here!) this shift takes real food, water and medicine away from real people and replaces it with an ethereal benefit that makes some people, especially in this country a bit more wealthy.

--
cogito ergo oro

Re:The internet will cure all poverty. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:25 · Score: 0

poverty is a social disease, and not something that can be cured by any organization, business, or charity. Only when the lifestyles of the lowest common denominator change, will poverty be eliminated

Sweet by michaeltoe · 2003-09-30 08:04 · Score: 1

So now when I'm taking my 3rd college level introductory programming course in a row, I can go online and actually learn something for once!

Lecture videos for one course by bartc · 2003-09-30 08:05 · Score: 4, Informative

For anyone interested in the MIT course 6.004 Computation Structures: the lectures are very similar to ArsDigita University's "How Computers Work".

ArsDigita University put all its lectures online in realvideo format. Here's mirror of the "How Computers Work" course.

Re:Lecture videos for one course by karlm · 2003-09-30 21:29 · Score: 1

ArsDigita used to recruit heavily from MIT.
I heard that around 1999, there was a course at MIT that pretty much guaranteed you an offer from ArsDigita if you got a decent grade.
There's a decent chance the ArsDigita course was put together by an MIT grad.
Of course, if ArsDigita aren't the people that had their own add-on package for AOL Server and gave a Honda S2000 to the employee that recruited the most number of new employees, then I'm talking about the wrong company.

--
Copyright Violation:"theft, piracy"::Anti-Trust Violation:"thermonuclear price terrorism"<-Overly dramatic language.

ITsd that kind of thinking that will keep you out by geekoid · 2003-09-30 08:06 · Score: 2, Funny

of MIT.

I mean, com'on. Do you think your going to get that kind of service now that you told about 100,000 people about it?

You the guy that kept blabbing about the internet, aren't you?

--
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

good work sleuth by klaricmn · 2003-09-30 08:06 · Score: 1

It hasn't even been a month since this was last posted here

Matrix-like brain access needed by gazoombo · 2003-09-30 08:08 · Score: 1

Does anyone else here really want an OC-12 line to the base of their skull to pump in all this information...

--
John Hancock

avoid overpriced textbooks by bkrrrrr · 2003-09-30 08:08 · Score: 1

You'll VERY seldom need the latest edition of a text for most classes. Just go by an older edition for $15 on eBay or half.com. Don't support the textbook racket. Textbook prices are outrageous - especially since 95% of the info in them has been in print for decades. We had perfectly good texts in the 1980's, and by browsing my pop's bookshelf I see that they had quite serviceable texts in the 1960's.

Re:avoid overpriced textbooks by cybermace5 · 2003-09-30 09:00 · Score: 1

The worst is when the teacher uses a book they wrote, and make every class buy the newest edition.

I did have some good professors who wrote books (actual books, not just class notes) for some of the engineering classes. They stayed internal to the school and were printed out every semester by the campus printshop, and available in the bookstore for less than ten bucks or so.

--
...

Poor places (Re:Hopefully this will start a trend) by Forge · 2003-09-30 08:09 · Score: 4, Informative

IF I lived in the US and made minimum wage I could live in a slum (Like the bad parts of New York) so rent would be cheap enough to leave me with enough money to buy a PC. $700 pays for a decent system and is ONLY 3 weeks pay at minimum wage. Or 3 months with aggressive saving.

What you should ask about is People who live in Poor countries (Like Jamaica) where Minimum wage is $33.5 per week and any PC costs at least 17% more (or $819) for my example system. I.e. 6 Months pay at minimum wage or 2 years of aggressive saving.

The price gap for Internet Bandwidth is even wider. I.e. Your ENTIRE salary at minimum wage would barely pay for entry level ADSL (256K up 128K down)

--
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?

DIY troll: by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:09 · Score: 0

Please click on your address bar and type aitch tee tee pee, colon, slash slash gee oh ay tee ess ee, dot cee ecks. Now click "go"

Technologies of Humanism by urbazewski · 2003-09-30 08:10 · Score: 1

Now this sounds like a cool class: Technologies of Humanism.

Course Description
This course explores the properties of non-sequential, multi-linear, and interactive forms of narratives as they have evolved from print to digital media. Works covered in this course range from the Talmud, classics of non-linear novels, experimental literature, early sound and film experiments to recent multi-linear and interactive films and games. The study of the structural properties of narratives that experiment with digression, multiple points of view, disruptions of time, space, and of storyline is complemented by theoretical texts about authorship/readership, plot/story, properties of digital media and hypertext. Questions that will be addressed in this course include: How can we define 'non-sequentiality/multi-linearity', 'interactivity', 'narrative'. To what extend are these aspects determined by the text, the reader, the digital format? What are the roles of the reader and the author? What kinds of narratives are especially suited for a non-linear/interactive format? Are there stories that can only be told in a digital format? What can we learn from early non-digital examples of non-linear and interactive story telling?

Overall, though, I have to say that the information available on the classes is a bit thin --- didn't they get a multi-million dollar grant to put this together?

--
foldplay your photos won't know what hit them.

Re:Technologies of Humanism by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:28 · Score: 0

overall? So you have lookd over every single course and read it thoroughly to make that statement?
Re:Technologies of Humanism by HuguesT · 2003-09-30 22:40 · Score: 1

You can start by reading the recommended texts, some of them are really good.

Cheers.

interestingly enough... by jhigh · 2003-09-30 08:12 · Score: 2, Interesting

From the FAQ:

The CMS we have been using since the beginning of 2003 is a customized commercial option, Microsoft Content Management System 2002. The reasons for the choice of Microsoft 2002 were manifold: Microsoft made a serious commitment to the MIT OCW project, the total cost of ownership of Microsoft CMS 2002 was significantly lower than the other vendors in consideration, and the Microsoft product offered a high-level of usability for the end-users, MIT OCW's faculty liaisons and MIT's faculty. The entire MIT OCW Web site is now published dynamically out of the customized CMS.

What? Microsoft getting positive exposure on Slashdot? I think I just saw a pig fly past my window on his way to a frozen hell.

--
Social Engineering Expert: Because there is no patch for stupidity.

This by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:17 · Score: 0

This makes me happy.

Re:Poor places (Re:Hopefully this will start a tre by Forge · 2003-09-30 08:17 · Score: 3, Interesting

Sorry for not completing my point before. In the US, it's a rare individual who is too poor to own a PC with net access. More common is that such an item isn't a priority (I.e. Cable TV with some premium channels or ADSL? Same price, choose one).

Personally, I don't make enough as an engineer in the 3rd world to afford MIT so this will be useful for personal development. My degree will have to come from a lesser institution.

--
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?

well... by mantera · 2003-09-30 08:18 · Score: 0, Offtopic

sorry for seeming cynical, but it matters less than it seems. I think in the real world if you care about education then what matters is the certification, a piece of paper that you can show to others, that's why many seem willing to pay hundreds or thousands for one or few days of courses about things they already know about or they could figure out by just reading a book, just so that they can add a certificate to their resume. Otherwise, if you're not the kind of person who relies on certificates, then school education might be superfluous and of little use, Bill Gates and Ellison are just examples, and many others will tell you school education is for drones.

I've Been Using It For Awhile... by the_mad_poster · 2003-09-30 08:18 · Score: 5, Insightful

...and it's great! I'm stuck in a shitty little comm. coll. here where everything is "learn how to use vendor x's program y" and it stinks. I told several profs to their faces now that I'm not coming to any classes when we're not taking a test because there's nothing that I can learn there that I care about or that matters.

With the Open CourseWare site though, I've started plugging my way through an almost complete cirriculum! I finally got the motivation to learn Java so I could use it in the 6-170 course. The content, organization, and overall structure of the course is incredible (6-170 is by far one of the best classes I've ever had in any subject at any school with any professor ever)! I'm looking forward to following it into the next class I work through on OCW.

There's no way I can afford to go to MIT - as much as I would love to - but with OCW, at least I can benefit from a great deal of their wisdom with some elbow grease, even without the cash.

--
Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!

Re:I've Been Using It For Awhile... by heff · 2003-09-30 08:42 · Score: 1

it sounds like you're taking the wrong classess.. either that or you're at a really horrid community college.

I know a lot of schools offer just what you seem to be looking for in terms of coding and software design.

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|-_-| . o O ( bEef!)
Re:I've Been Using It For Awhile... by the_mad_poster · 2003-09-30 08:58 · Score: 3, Insightful

Yea, MIT and Berkely :)

A lot of schools these days take money from venduhs (Microsoft is the big one here) and, in return, teach their products rather than theory and solid practice with multiple products. The worst part is, they try to make it look like theory to look good. For example, I got duped bad on the "Intermediate Database Management" course - they market it as a class about RDBMS management, but it's "Access For Dummies" through and through and the teacher knows about as much as RDBMSs as I do about brain surgery. I'm a follower of the writings of Fabian Pascal, C.J. Date (I had actually just wrapped up a rather intensive study of "Database Design" before this miserable class started), and, of course, Codd, so you can imagine how painful that class is.... that's pretty much been the standard tech class at this technological dung heap (the gen ed courses are ok though, so it makes a good jump start to a 4 year to save you money - just avoid program-specific courses like the plague if you care to actually learn anything).

Unfortunately, from what I've seen, that's the way it works at a lot of schools these days - they teach a product instead of a theory. There are exceptions, of course, but after looking around, I've resigned myself to the fact that unless I come across baskets of cash (and pull my grades up...) I'm not going to get an overall quality tech education anywhere. I can get "bad" for cheap where I am now (temporarily, albeit) or "average" for "somewhat expensive" where I'm planning to go shortly, but anything approaching "good" costs bundles.

--
Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
Re:I've Been Using It For Awhile... by computer_chacham · 2003-09-30 11:44 · Score: 2, Informative

There's no way I can afford to go to MIT - as much as I would love to - but with OCW, at least I can benefit from a great deal of their wisdom with some elbow grease, even without the cash.

What makes you think you can't afford MIT? The Ivies and company have very good financial aid policies. It's just possible, under certain circumstances, to pay less than community college. I go to Penn, and basically only pay for room and board and books.
Re:I've Been Using It For Awhile... by marauder404 · 2003-09-30 21:21 · Score: 2, Informative

Just one [anal] clarification ... all MIT classes are noted by a decimal notation system, so it's "6.170," not "6-170." The 6 is short for Course VI, which is the EECS department. It's just a little thing that any MIT student would immediately notice as being odd about how you wrote it.

Re:Hopefully this will start a (x1488) by The_K4 · 2003-09-30 08:20 · Score: 2, Insightful

Time-out, it's now always about "need-based scholarships". It's also about admissions....I know a person, who was about 7/8ths of the way though college Working full time school nights and weekends. She got married, and moved to where her new husband Lives/Works, it's in the same state but far enough away from where she used to live that she can't continue at her old school. Now she has good grades (better them a 3.5 GPA) but NONE of the schools where she now lives are even considering transfer students!

Another problem is that too many "need-based scholarships" expect parents to pay for a student's college. I know 2 people (in different situations) how got nailed by this. One's parents both worked to put themselves through college and expected their kids to do the same. The other was raised in a very poor single parent family. When it was time to go to college this guy finds out that not only does the "need-biased scholarships" count the child-support that his mother NEVER received against his "income" but it also counted his semi-rich father's net worth against him. He qualified for NO financial aid, even thought his mother made $35K a year. Just more "need-biased scholarships" won't fix all our problems with education today!

Re:I'm still waiting on Richard Stallman's Guide.. by Patrik_AKA_RedX · 2003-09-30 08:22 · Score: 5, Funny

How to Get Laid, For Nerds.

That one will be published shortly after "Cold fusion reactors for dummies" and "101 fun things to do while riding the space elevator".

Will this make other schools more competitive? by clusterix · 2003-09-30 08:22 · Score: 4, Insightful

I have been through community college and umich and now live in Singapore. I can say that around the world a 4 year degree is not equal. I hope that this will encourage students to beg for better course designs and more advanced knowledge than what 90% of the world currently gets.

I also hope that engineering faculty will seriously discuss and compare their current curriculums and bring them up to par as much as possible (with in their and their students capability).

Re:Will this make other schools more competitive? by twistedcubic · 2003-09-30 09:33 · Score: 1

Well, judging by those solutions written for the algorithms course, it will probably lower others' impressions of MIT.

I think you mixed up your terms. by Trigun · 2003-09-30 08:25 · Score: 1

If by joke you mean convoluted brainfart which has no mention of anyone other than Jennifer Lopez and you, the reader, are supposed to draw a link between a movie character played by the friend of the ex-boyfriend of the only character other than myself in the story, when the link itself is half-based on the reality of a tabloid magazine and the fantasy of a hollywood production, then I got the joke.

Chomsky's lecture notes from OCW by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:25 · Score: 0

Summarizing, then, we assume that the theory of syntactic features developed earlier is necessary to impose an interpretation on the ultimate standard that determines the accuracy of any proposed grammar. Analogously, the appearance of parasitic gaps in domains relatively inaccessible to ordinary extraction can be defined in such a way as to impose an important distinction in language use. Thus relational information suffices to account for the strong generative capacity of the theory. On our assumptions, this selectionally introduced contextual feature cannot be arbitrary in a corpus of utterance tokens upon which conformity has been defined by the paired utterance test. To provide a constituent structure for T(Z,K), an important property of these three types of EC is rather different from a stipulation to place the constructions into these various categories.

However, this assumption is not correct, since the appearance of parasitic gaps in domains relatively inaccessible to ordinary extraction does not readily tolerate the traditional practice of grammarians. To provide a constituent structure for T(Z,K), this selectionally introduced contextual feature may remedy and, at the same time, eliminate a corpus of utterance tokens upon which conformity has been defined by the paired utterance test. Suppose, for instance, that the speaker-hearer's linguistic intuition is, apparently, determined by a stipulation to place the constructions into these various categories. Summarizing, then, we assume that the theory of syntactic features developed earlier cannot be arbitrary in the ultimate standard that determines the accuracy of any proposed grammar. By combining adjunctions and certain deformations, the descriptive power of the base component is unspecified with respect to a parasitic gap construction.

Clearly, a descriptively adequate grammar is to be regarded as the ultimate standard that determines the accuracy of any proposed grammar. In the discussion of resumptive pronouns following (81), the appearance of parasitic gaps in domains relatively inaccessible to ordinary extraction appears to correlate rather closely with an important distinction in language use. If the position of the trace in (99c) were only relatively inaccessible to movement, a subset of English sentences interesting on quite independent grounds raises serious doubts about the system of base rules exclusive of the lexicon. A consequence of the approach just outlined is that this analysis of a formative as a pair of sets of features cannot be arbitrary in the requirement that branching is not tolerated within the dominance scope of a complex symbol. We will bring evidence in favor of the following thesis: the systematic use of complex symbols is, apparently, determined by irrelevant intervening contexts in selectional rules.
Conversely, a subset of English sentences interesting on quite independent grounds does not affect the structure of a general convention regarding the forms of the grammar. Comparing these examples with their parasitic gap counterparts in (96) and (97), we see that this analysis of a formative as a pair of sets of features is not subject to the levels of acceptability from fairly high (eg (99a)) to virtual gibberish (eg (98d)). Nevertheless, the natural general principle that will subsume this case appears to correlate rather closely with an important distinction in language use. I suggested that these results would follow from the assumption that the speaker-hearer's linguistic intuition is unspecified with respect to the ultimate standard that determines the accuracy of any proposed grammar. However, this assumption is not correct, since the descriptive power of the base component raises serious doubts about the traditional practice of grammarians.

Note that the systematic use of complex symbols does not affect the structure of the requirement that branching is not tolerated within the dominance scope of a complex symbol. So far, an important property of these three types of EC suffices to account for t

Re:Chomsky's lecture notes from OCW by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 10:30 · Score: 0

No, no, no! It's supposed to read like this...
"Colorless green ideas sleep furiously, gawddam I'm such a pinko."
Re:Chomsky's lecture notes from OCW by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 11:11 · Score: 0

No, I think it's:

Hahaha Amerikkka iz teh SUX0rZ lolololol.

Discussion Site by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:26 · Score: 2, Interesting

Now it's time for some people to get together and create a discussion site for each of the courses so every1 can have a place to go to ask questions about example problems and notes.

A Few Problems I noticed by Saint+Stephen · 2003-09-30 08:26 · Score: 1

I tried to follow 18.06 "Intro. to Linear Algebra" as a refresher; I figured it would be a good "beta test". I noticed some problems:

(1) The problem sets refer to problems on certain pages of the textbook. The textbook is not available online.

(2) I was able to view the lectures under Linux with the latest Mplayer. However, I could not seek, so if the stream is interrupted, you have to watch it all again. There are links to specific topics within each lecture, but apparently Mplayer doesn't respect them.

Other than that, between gv to view docs, Mplayer to watch the guy, and octave to "take notes" and test things, it's pretty good e-learning!

Looking forward to when they "work out the bugs" and get some more breadth in the online courseware...

Re:A Few Problems I noticed by Minna+Kirai · 2003-10-02 09:07 · Score: 1

I was able to view the lectures under Linux with the latest Mplayer. However, I could not seek, so if the stream is interrupted, you have to watch it all again.

As a workaround, mplayer's included utilities can re-encode streams into a tractable local format. For example, you can stream an RPM video into "mencoder" (included with mplayer) and save that as a local divx;) AVI, which will be seekable when you view it later.

Type "man mplayer" for details.

Re:Hopefully this will start a (x1488) by carlos_benj · 2003-09-30 08:27 · Score: 1

And if there's no one to grade your papers, you're missing a whole lot.

What about moderated usenet groups or chat rooms? Just look at /. where there are any number of people lining up to tell you you're wrong....

--

As a matter of fact, I am a lawyer. But I play an actor on TV.

Content is not instruction by mactoph · 2003-09-30 08:29 · Score: 1

The OpenCourseware project is a bold initiative and the organization and presentation of the content will undoubtedly help many people, but reading content and taking tests is not a very effective way for most people to learn.
Two important aspects of learning that are missing are motivation (eg project due tomorrow) or the draw of a learning community (eg slashdot). The classroom lecture format of the MIT courses doesn't facilitate either of these very well-
Hopefully in the future we'll see some kind of MIT (or 3rd party) learning communities built around individual courses to help facilitate a more effective learning environment.

Re:Question by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:29 · Score: 0

Presumably, the fundamental error of regarding functional notions as categorial may remedy and, at the same time, eliminate the requirement that branching is not tolerated within the dominance scope of a complex symbol. So far, the descriptive power of the base component does not readily tolerate a corpus of utterance tokens upon which conformity has been defined by the paired utterance test. We have already seen that relational information appears to correlate rather closely with the strong generative capacity of the theory. I suggested that these results would follow from the assumption that a case of semigrammaticalness of a different sort is unspecified with respect to a stipulation to place the constructions into these various categories. Of course, an important property of these three types of EC can be defined in such a way as to impose problems of phonemic and morphological analysis.

To characterize a linguistic level L, most of the methodological work in modern linguistics is to be regarded as an important distinction in language use. Nevertheless, the theory of syntactic features developed earlier cannot be arbitrary in the strong generative capacity of the theory. On our assumptions, an important property of these three types of EC may remedy and, at the same time, eliminate irrelevant intervening contexts in selectional rules. By combining adjunctions and certain deformations, this analysis of a formative as a pair of sets of features is unspecified with respect to nondistinctness in the sense of distinctive feature theory. For one thing, the systematic use of complex symbols is not subject to a descriptive fact.

It must be emphasized, once again, that the theory of syntactic features developed earlier does not affect the structure of irrelevant intervening contexts in selectional rules. Conversely, the natural general principle that will subsume this case is rather different from a general convention regarding the forms of the grammar. Notice, incidentally, that relational information appears to correlate rather closely with nondistinctness in the sense of distinctive feature theory. Furthermore, any associated supporting element raises serious doubts about a stipulation to place the constructions into these various categories. With this clarification, the systematic use of complex symbols is necessary to impose an interpretation on the strong generative capacity of the theory.

A consequence of the approach just outlined is that this analysis of a formative as a pair of sets of features does not affect the structure of the levels of acceptability from fairly high (eg (99a)) to virtual gibberish (eg (98d)). I suggested that these results would follow from the assumption that a descriptively adequate grammar suffices to account for a stipulation to place the constructions into these various categories. However, this assumption is not correct, since most of the methodological work in modern linguistics is not subject to the system of base rules exclusive of the lexicon. Presumably, the appearance of parasitic gaps in domains relatively inaccessible to ordinary extraction cannot be arbitrary in the traditional practice of grammarians. Analogously, any associated supporting element delimits a parasitic gap construction.

For one thing, any associated supporting element can be defined in such a way as to impose a stipulation to place the constructions into these various categories. It must be emphasized, once again, that the earlier discussion of deviance does not readily tolerate nondistinctness in the sense of distinctive feature theory. However, this assumption is not correct, since the notion of level of grammaticalness is rather different from the extended c-command discussed in connection with (34). For any transformation which is sufficiently diversified in application to be of any interest, the natural general principle that will subsume this case raises serious doubts about a corpus of utterance tokens upon which conformity has been defined by the paired utterance test. On our assumptions, this analysis of a formative as a pair of sets of features cannot be arbitrary in a descriptive fact.

finally by jaal · 2003-09-30 08:30 · Score: 1

finally we all can look how bad those MIT professors write or scratch...

I'm surprised by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:32 · Score: 0

That Noam Chomsky has a couple courses in there. He's apparently hated at MIT!

MIT biomedical major in EE by peter303 · 2003-09-30 08:35 · Score: 1

For historical reasons, the biomedical engineering degree got attached to electrical engineering. Could as well gone with biology, mech eng, or material science. If a specialty isnt large enough to stand on its own as a department, its folded into some other department.

Re:MIT biomedical major in EE by sjfoley · 2003-09-30 09:23 · Score: 1

To clarify, Biomedical Engineering is only a possible undergraduate minor, although there are musings that it may be expanded as a new major. BME could indeed fit in many categories--it was developed by faculty from Aero-astro, Biology, Chem. E, Mech. E., Nuclear E., EECS, and Health Science & Technology departments.
Re:MIT biomedical major in EE by edmudama · 2003-09-30 09:51 · Score: 1

Just to add a bit...

I think the origin of their "biomedical" studies were bio-electrical in nature, hence the tie to EE. 60 years ago the EE department was simply a branch of the physics department at MIT too... as each sub-specialty grows, eventually it warrants its own department. When my dad went to MIT, there was no such thing as computer science... stuff we take for granted in a CS education was a fringe part of EE back then.

Interest in the biomedical/bioelectrical classes was rather limited when I attended school there, though maybe that has changed. (Biology is now required for all students I believe, whereas I got to choose organic chemistry "5.11" or inorganic chemistry "3.091" instead) (In that example, note that inorganic chemistry is part of the materials science department (course 3), and not part of the chemistry department. (course 5)) Also, most of the math required by computer science majors have designations in both EECS (course 6) and mathematics (course 18), if for no other reason than to make the registration software more complicated.

--eric

--
More data, damnit!

I finished the lectures by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:37 · Score: 0

and I printed out an "MIT Degree" for myself and updated my resume, take that you MIT braniacs :P

Understanding Television, a Lit class !! by javaxman · 2003-09-30 08:38 · Score: 2, Funny

My favorite so far is a Literature class called "Understanding Television".

Hilarious!

Seriously, this MIT project is a great resource.

Litmus test... by fuqqer · 2003-09-30 08:43 · Score: 2, Interesting

I think it would be great to see how students at other so-called "second-rate" or state schools are able to do in these courses. I think it would provide a great comparison of school difficulty.

I found the #1 party school in the nation to have a difficult engineering and math departments. I've also heard a lot of people say that the only tough thing about Stanford, Harvard, or even MIT is getting in. Once you're in, apparently it's no more difficult than other schools.

Granted you're reading the rantings and ravings of a CS dropout.

-non sig- Bow to your non-sig overlords!

Re:Litmus test... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:51 · Score: 1, Interesting

Stanford and Harvard, maybe. But MIT is right up there with Caltech in most people's rankings of the most demanding schools.
Re:Litmus test... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 09:13 · Score: 1, Interesting

In terms of students, MIT has a good average, but an enormous standard deviation.

There are plenty of students who won gold medals in the international mathematics olympiad or physics olympiad or won international programming competitions.

But, at the same time, there are a lot of students who come in with relatively weak backgrounds and have to work really hard to get through the core courses.

So I think most good students from most good schools would do just fine at MIT. But being near the top at MIT? That's not so easy...
Re:Litmus test... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 09:26 · Score: 1, Informative

I went to Harvard undergrad, and while I agree with the statement, it's not the whole story. Sure, you can graduate from Harvard while taking the bare minimum of required courses (and there are a lot of 'gut' courses). But schools like Harvard mirror the real world I think, in that it is what you make of it. You can take top-notch extremely difficult courses taught by nobel laureates too if you want, as long as you are motivated and willing to sweat it out. Harvard does very little spoon feeding and hand holding.

I went to MIT for grad school, and my impression of the undergrad courses as a TF and just a member of the community was that MIT courses were a lot more rigorous and you didnt have as much leeway. I did feel there was quite a bit of spoon feeding though, so I'm not sure if that approach was better or not.
Re:Litmus test... by javaxman · 2003-09-30 09:33 · Score: 3, Interesting

Trust me,
when you're taking some mid-level 'weed-out the weak' physics/math/engineering course and EVERYONE you are competing against was in the top 2% of their graduating class with unbelievable SAT scores, it makes a difference.

Bell-curve grading in such a scenario can be a real bitch, and profs for whatever reason ( lazyness is my guess ) often use it anyway.

In my experience, the teachers at less-difficult-to-enter schools have to work a little harder to explain the course material to students, and thus the classes are much more understandable and the learning experience better... and of course, easier. But not necessarily due to grading- it's easier due to the fact that you don't have to either already know the material or teach it to yourself ( or hire a tutor ), which happens at places like MIT and Stanford because the 'teacher' is some math research grad student who is a wiz but is teaching because he has to, not because it's his job, and can't understand how you wouldn't 'get' such basic material. I know this might be taken the wrong way, but at a big-name research university, you can count yourself lucky if your math secton leader can speak understandable english- and they won't know jack about teaching.

If you really want to learn about Diff Eq's, you might be better off taking the course from Foothill College rather than Leland Stanford, Jr University. Sad but true.

Of course, you'd rather do your research project at one of the big-name schools, and it always looks better on a resume...

I finished my BS CS degree, for what it's worth.
Re:Litmus test... by losvedir · 2003-09-30 10:24 · Score: 3, Informative

Well... As I type this from my dorm room at MIT i'm gonna have to say that doesn't seem quite accurate. The classes here are *really* hard. I'm not sure how hard it is at other schools, but I imagine it would be at least a little easier.

* My MIT interviewer said that she would talk on the phone with her boyfriend at UC Berkeley, and that after a couple weeks they could no longer talk about the same class, since the MIT one was moving faster. At the send-off party I verified this with him..

* My Dad went to Cal Tech, thought it was too hard, and then transfered to UC San Diego. He said there was a very notiecable difference in difficulty level in his match courses between the two, so there *are* differences in schools.

Oh.. and about Harvard and Stanford... those really are just easy schools once you're in.. ;)

--
"True dat with a wiffle ball bat." -- kabrakan
Re:Litmus test... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 20:55 · Score: 1

I was a (more than) full time University of Minnesota student for the entirety of my senior year of high school. (Minnesota, like many states, has a neat program whereby my tuition was paid in full by the state and my high school saved money.) I took University of Minnesota honors-level mathematics classes starting in 8th grade. (Well, the first 2 years covered 4 years of H.S. math.) The University of Minnesota is widely considered a pretty solid school, well ranked by U.S. News and others.
Had I gone to the U of MN as a regular student, I would have started out with one and a half years under my belt. However, my freshmen classes (even honors classes) at the University of Minnesota were a complete breeze compared to my freshmen classes at MIT.
At the U of MN, I got a B in Intro to World Politics and As in _all_ of my other classes, so by the U of MN system, my GPA was quite a bit above 4.0, since more than half of my classes were honors classes. I did my math homework during Chemistry lecture (occassionally I even sat in the lecture hall during lecture). I did my World Politics reading in Physics lecture when I wasn't firting with this cute sorrority girl. (Hey, JenJ, you still out there?)
My MIT GPA was 2.6! That's about 2 points lower than my U of MN GPA.
My brother did worse than me at the U of MN (mostly Bs in the same honors math classes) and did really well in his CU-Boulder Aeronautical Engineering courses. Boulder is a great school, but it sounded about as difficult at the U of MN.
I was butting my head against the top of the grading system at the U of MN without really even trying. I was a real ass about it sometimes, too. I remember once making a big show out of folding up my newspaper in math class to pay attention when the professor had stumped the rest of the class. I answered correctly, then the professor got really pissed off at my attitude and asked me outside. He told me "Listen. I don't care who you are or how high your grades are. If you bring a newspaper to class one more time, I will do my best to get you thrown out of the program." I was a real idiot in some ways, but then again, if you were a 16-year old kid that was borred that your honors-level U of MN math class usually taken by sophmores was going too slow, what would you have done?
MIT was full of asses just like me. In at least several of my Jr. High math classes, teachers made it known that they had not made a ScanTron master key, but instead had marked my test as the master key and the entire class would spend the class period going over my test answers. In High School, the same thing happened in AP Chemistry . (My High School was 3,000 students in 4 grades, so it wasn't like I was at the top of some small high school, either.) I didn't miss a single point the entire year in AP Chem, and on one test the next-highest score was 70%, so the teacher "curved" the test by adding 20% to everyone's scores. I ended the year with more than 100%. See, you hate me. I was that know-it all ass. The one that nobody could touch in math or science.
Think about that know-it-all kid you knew that was just like me. Now scale him up so that he litterally did not make one mistake in AP Chem and was twice as good at Math as Chem. Now fill a lecture hall with 600 of these people. You must do better than 300 of them in order to get a B. You have one hour. Begin.
You also get all of those kids the teachers hated to teach becuase they could always see the flaws in the teaching material. Go to the 2.002 courseware and look at the standard model for metal fatigue. Within 10 minutes of seeing those equations for the first time, I told the prof that they violated basic 8.01 physics at the crystal level. During a demonstration performed by a lab tech, the prof pulled me aside at the back of the class and told me I was right and the approximations failed where I thought they would, but the model was appropriate for an undergrad level.
It's not that other poeple can't get 80% ma
Re:Litmus test... by HuguesT · 2003-09-30 22:49 · Score: 1

I remember one of my distant colleagues, currently researcher at Harvard Medical School, telling me about his friend when he attended MIT 20 years ago. He says that his friend still occasionally wakes up in the middle of the night screaming "No, NO, Enough" or something like that. This was referred to by his wife as his `MIT nightmare', from when he was a student trying to stay afloat in the coursework.

I'd say that MIT is hard going. I thought I worked pretty hard at uni., but I was only having nightmares DURING the coursework.

But... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:43 · Score: 0

nobody ever bragged about having an education from Georgia Tech.

what's new about this... by penguin7of9 · 2003-09-30 08:45 · Score: 1

It isn't actually that professors put their notes on-line. Many schools even put more lectures in digital video formats on-line (unless I missed the links, only a few of the OCW lectures appear to be available in video).

What seems to be new about this is that MIT has hired staff to put together a professional-looking, organized website. This means that putting a course on OCW is less work for the professors and that the end-result is more useful to students. That's in contrast to many other universities that try to "protect" their content from the outside world and give little or no assistance to their professors in putting course content on-line.

This is also great for Profs by jat2 · 2003-09-30 08:46 · Score: 1

First off, I am an MIT alumnus, so there may be some biases.

That aside, I now teach at another university. I find the OCW material extremely helpful because I can use some of it as supplemental material in my class. For example, if I teach a class that requires linear algebra as a prerequisite, then I can refer any students who are rusty to the wonderful, indexed lecture videos that are available online in OCW (18.06 is the course).

Also, it is a two-way street. If I find that there is a particularly effective method for teaching or demonstrating a concept, I can share it with the OCW people. It goes without saying in this forum that the "Open" part of OCW can be a very good way of developing an effective curriculum. In this particular case, MIT is acting like the benign dictator.

Seems like 6.001 Exams Got Easier by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:49 · Score: 1, Interesting

I recall having them apologize to us on the 6.001 exam fall 1984 because it was too hard for the graduate assistants to finish in the alloted time.

What I saw as answers were for much easier problems. Hmmm. . .should I be upset that I was tortured and new students aren't, or happy for new students that they aren't getting hosed and having their egos crushed?

Re:Seems like 6.001 Exams Got Easier by Gusolator · 2003-09-30 13:37 · Score: 1

Ah, good ol' 6-double-oh-fun. Back in the day. A prime generator of the sentiment IHTFP.
Re:Seems like 6.001 Exams Got Easier by madenosine · 2003-09-30 18:39 · Score: 1

Saw this scratched on a dorway in East campus (with a knife) "6.001: Introduction to Humility"

i see they have nuclear engineering by 2057 · 2003-09-30 08:55 · Score: 1

i see they have nuclear engineering, i wonder if i can put on my resume?

--
For The Best Jazz/Hip-hop fusion > COlD DUCK

Teachers by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:56 · Score: 1, Interesting

I wonder if this undermines the role of teachers in the educational process? More and more teachers are expected to manufacture course material instead of actually TEACH. Make slides, make course notes, make syllabi, use the projector, use PowerPoint. All this technology inhibits the flow of information for the sake of record keeping.

Is anyone else saddened that this puts another nail in the coffin for charismatic teachers who just stand in front of the room and speak fluidly from knowledge? I go to a big university and am SICK of the powerpoint and or PDF slides. Sick of professors that just read notes from another curriculum or from the book of the course text.

Sharing of information between educators is fine. I don't mind it. But this format encourages classrooms unsuitable for learning only for expensive projectors and overpaid suits that can read a slide.

Going to the library by FuzzyDaddy · 2003-09-30 08:57 · Score: 1

I live in an upper-middle class neighborhood in DC. I love going to the library (to read, not to use the computer), but I rarely do. They are not open on Sunday, they only stay open late one day a week. It would really suck if I was trying to do any serious learning there while holding down a job.

Also, library hours were recently cut back because of budget problems here in DC.

--
It's not wasting time, I'm educating myself.

Re:Going to the library by Forge · 2003-09-30 09:32 · Score: 1

See pore places thread above. Where I come from most libraris don't have much internet access. And those that do it isn't free.

--
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
Re:Going to the library by twentycavities · 2003-09-30 12:52 · Score: 1

Where I come from most [libraries] don't have much internet access

Even when they do, no matter how many PCs they have set up every damn one is in use. Ever stop by a public computer lab to grab driving directions off Mapquest, only to find that homeless people are monopolizing all the PCs? I don't really have a point...just complaining.

Also, mad props to the OSU Sci/Eng library for being open 24 hrs/day, baby!

--
Monstromart: Where shopping is a baffling ordeal
Re:Going to the library by tadas · 2003-09-30 12:54 · Score: 1

I live in an upper-middle class neighborhood in DC.....They are not open on Sunday...only stay open late one day a week
I've lived in DC & environs since '78, and MLK library (at Gallery Place metro) has consistently been open from 1 to 5 on Sundays, except in summer all of that time.
If you want some variety, go to any of the Montgomery County libraries (your DC card makes you eligible for a card in any of the 'burbs), also open on Sundays except in summer (Rockville and Bethesda - Bethesda opens 10/10 after the 2-year renovation - are walking distance from the respective metro stations). Also, not all of the DC branches have only one late night, and *different branches are open on different nights*.

--
This page accidentally left blank
Re:Going to the library by Moofie · 2003-09-30 20:19 · Score: 1

Yeah, stupid homeless people, who might be trying to LEARN something. What a HIDEOUS inconvenience for you to put up with...

I see how troubling that might be. You might explain the problem to the librarian, and ask her (him) for a hug.

Of course, if they're worth their salt, they'll kick you in the balls and throw you out of the library.

--
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Re:Going to the library by twentycavities · 2003-10-01 12:40 · Score: 1

Yeah, I'm sure they're all at OpenCourseWare catching up on their chemistry. Surely they're not just posting to /. and reading blogs. They're homeless/poor, they're not typical scumbags. They're noble. They sit on the public computer all day bettering themselves.

My point was that they should set aside a few 5-minute-max PCs (or even just make the place a wireless hotspot or whatever) for people who just want to access the friggin' Internet for a few minutes and can't wait around all day.

--
Monstromart: Where shopping is a baffling ordeal
Re:Going to the library by Moofie · 2003-10-01 12:57 · Score: 1

Point is, it's none of your fucking business what they're doing on those PCs. They have as much right to them as you do.

Why don't you donate a wireless hotspot? Not like they're expensive. My library has 'em. And five-minute PC's.

--
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!

Re:Poor places (Re:Hopefully this will start a tre by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 08:58 · Score: 0

Screw poor people in other countries. The reason for making these courses free to AMERICANS is that their taxes pay for them. Yes, PRIVATE universities could not function without federal grant money.

Why Scheme? by stickyc · 2003-09-30 09:00 · Score: 1

Not knowing much about the language, why is the majority of EE/CS coursework in Scheme? Wouldn't C be a more appropriate language to build fundamentals in?

Re:Why Scheme? by LarryTheGeek · 2003-09-30 09:07 · Score: 1

Not really. You'd be surprised how many universities still use Scheme as a teaching language. Having a nice set of data structures (lists) as a first-class part of the language is a good thing. Plus not having to mess with pointers and such.

--
Approaching Normal
Re:Why Scheme? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 09:30 · Score: 0

I can think of a lot of reasons.

The interactive top-level (now also popularized by Python) makes learning and experimenting easy, dynamic typing is perhaps appropriate when not teaching about type systems specifically, for which entirely different languages would be appropriate (ML and Haskell come to mind).

Scheme has closures and continuations that can be used to express a lot of things that are pretty much impossible in C (without creating a sublanguage).

C/C++ or possibly Ada would be appropriate for courses dealing with things like memory allocation and other things that require the low-level features.

Knowing plenty of programming languages (languages too similar to each other don't count) is important if you want to be a good programmer capable of selecting the right tool for the job, it's unfortunate that courses don't use a larger selection of different programming languages.
Re:Why Scheme? by ornil · 2003-09-30 09:40 · Score: 1

C is definitely not the language to build fundamentals in. As far as academia is concerned, C's only merit is that it is popular. It is very confusing to the beginner. Most places nowadays either teach Scheme (very popular in academic circles) or Java. Some places teach C++. Scheme is taught because it is fundamentally simple and beautiful, and therefore instructive.
Re:Why Scheme? by UserGoogol · 2003-09-30 10:43 · Score: 1

1) MIT just really likes Scheme, for various quasi-political reasons. It was invented there, for starters. (I think.) Also, I suppose the AI Lab crowd probably encouraged a strong pro-Lisp/Scheme atmosphere.

2) C is slightly low level, whereas Scheme is not. As a result, you can focus on ideas and not have to think about the exact implementation and stuff like buffer overruns.

--
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity." -- Hanlon's Razor
Re:Why Scheme? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 11:51 · Score: 1, Interesting

If you're going to teach programming, you probably don't want to teach it in Scheme. Depending on the type of programming, C, C++, or Java would likely be the best choice, and indeed 6.170 Laboratory in Software Engineering is taught in Java.
However, programming is distinctly different from computer science. In programming, you want to know exactly how to code--how to create classes, what pointers go where, etc. In computer science, you are trying to understand the way the computer operates and manipulates data ("thinks", as it were), so that you know how to code effectively. Scheme is frequently used as a language in introductory computer science classes because it is a very good language for teaching these concepts. That's why it's used in 6.001.
Also, Scheme is a LISP variant, and the mechanics of LISP and its close cousins make them the languages of choice in the field of artificial intelligence. You probably wouldn't want to, say, write a webserver in Scheme (although a friend of mine once did...), but it is, in fact, a good choice for 6.034 or actual work in the AI field. (A different friend of mine, a CS graduate student working on an AI project, absolutely swears by CommonLISP as the best computer language known to man.)

Re:Poor places (Re:Hopefully this will start a tre by Speed+Racer · 2003-09-30 09:01 · Score: 1

That's not entirely true. Some universities don't take federal money to avoid some of the stipulations that come with those funds. Mostly it's religious schools that want some freedom to do things their own way.

--
Free Mac Mini. Yes, I'm

Re:Poor places (Re:Hopefully this will start a tre by eXtro · 2003-09-30 09:02 · Score: 1

This is bullshit. Not everybody can afford a PC. It's easy to say that it's only 3 weeks pay. Fine, that may be true and we'll even pretend that everybody makes minimum wage. Saving 3 weeks pay, even over the course of a year, is very difficult at minimum wage. From what I've seen the choice is whether they're going to eat tonight or not.

--

Chris Kuivenhoven is a thief, beware

Re:Poor places (Re:Hopefully this will start a tre by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 09:03 · Score: 0

quote:
Screw poor people in other countries. The reason for making these courses free to AMERICANS is that their taxes pay for them.

That's it, you are fired from the internet!

Re:Poor places (Re:Hopefully this will start a tre by Forge · 2003-09-30 09:03 · Score: 1

And educating people to "MIT Level" has made America welthy.

Note that nowhere in my coment do I ask for any kind of handout for anyone.

--
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?

More and more vendors are doing it by Stone316 · 2003-09-30 09:03 · Score: 1

Take Oracle for example their technet website has a link to all of their documentation. I honestly don't understand why people buy most of the Oracle books on the market. It may take a little more work to find the information online but it is there. From the documentation to white papers to conference presentations.

I haven't explored many other vendors sites but I think DB2 does this as well.

Personally I think it makes sense for vendors to allow people to use their products free for personal use and provide documentation. If these people are put into a position where they have to evaluation or use software, what are they going to pick? Software they are familiar with.

--
"Thanks to the remote control I have the attention span of a gerbil."

Copyrights?? by GillBates0 · 2003-09-30 09:03 · Score: 1

A lot of courses are only able to provide videos to students because allowing public access would be a violation of copyright laws for materials they use during the lectures.

What materials are you referring to exactly? If you're referring to books, then ofcourse, professors do not display books in class. If you are referring to lecture slides, etc...I don't think they're copyrighted by the professor, and if they are, since they are putting them up on the web in the first place, they don't care if anybody views them.

The class videos here referred to the fact that lectures/classes are routinely recorded/taped, and put up online for students to view. It doesn't refer to any videos that were shown in class, and which may rightly be copyrighted by someone.

--
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam

Re:Copyrights?? by madenosine · 2003-09-30 09:15 · Score: 1

My fault for not clarifying...not by the professor, but people who write books and other random stuff that professors like to use. Ex, if a slide takes a passage from a book.

I dont know about all of the cases tho....it would be interesting to hear from a lawyer who did....

Either way, this is apparently enough to scare most professors away from putting their lectures online.
Re:Copyrights?? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 19:36 · Score: 0

But... teaching is one of the uses specifically mentioned in the fair use clause of copyright law. Since they would only show short passages and aren't making any profit, I don't see how anyone could reasonably claim that it wouldn't be fair use.

Awsome! by Reservoir+Penguin · 2003-09-30 09:03 · Score: 2, Funny

Fianlly I can take a course in Womyns Studies! From MIT!!!

--
US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil

Re:Awsome! by marko123 · 2003-09-30 10:58 · Score: 1

As opposed to the Womyn's Studies in Slashdot?

"Them's those untouchable things what got vaginas in them. They're all pretty (printable), quiet, take up little room (individually), and don't have any body hair."

Course finished.

--
http://pcblues.com - Digits and Wood

Well done MIT by Robowally · 2003-09-30 09:11 · Score: 1

I'm sure this material is great news for many all around the world. I am looking forward to MIT putting more video lecture material online. The Linear Algebra videos are excellent; certainly better than my university lectures were.

For those interested in Christian Theology, I note another website attempting a similiar thing to MIT but on a much smaller scale. They have good lecturers on various topics including Biblical Greek. They are at http://www.biblicaltraining.org/

Regards from New Zealand.

--
Karma? Sorry, i don't believe in superstition. http://talk.thinkingmatters.org.nz

Not too useful without the text(s) listed. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 09:18 · Score: 0

How are you supposed to even figure out what text they are using? From their FAQ....

# How do I get a copy of the course pack for a particular course?

MIT OCW is not a distance-learning, or a degree-granting, initiative, and there is no registration process required for users to view course materials. MIT OCW is a publication of the course materials that support the dynamic classroom interactions of an MIT education. The course-pack materials that accompany most MIT courses often contain proprietary information and copyrighted materials that MIT Faculty only use in their classroom interactions with MIT students. These materials are not available, nor will they be in the future, to MIT OCW users.

Sounds rather lame IMHO.

Re:Not too useful without the text(s) listed. by automatix · 2003-09-30 10:18 · Score: 1

Many of them use texts which are listed and anyone is perfectly capable of buying from Amazon...
eg. 6.170 Software Engineering
Rob :)

What no MS? by baggins2002 · 2003-09-30 09:26 · Score: 1

What no courses in Visual Studio or .Net programming? What kind of a lame institute is this?

Re:What no MS? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 11:40 · Score: 0

I don't think any degree courses will have those type of programming class. Any MIS or CS students should self-study those specific programming language/software/platform.

Wikibooks by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 09:27 · Score: 1, Informative

In any event, it would be simple - a book is created and is available for modification so as long as the modifications are submitted back to the original author. The text would evolve into something that could not be purchased from *any* publisher.

Check out Wikibooks. They are a sister project of Wikipedia and are doing just that without the "noncommercial" limitation of the MIT license. Anyone can contribute directly too.

Re:Poor places (Re:Hopefully this will start a tre by Forge · 2003-09-30 09:30 · Score: 3, Insightful

I expected this response. Which is why I made sure to mention where I am. (Jamaica). My information is sourced from actual ambitious immigrants. (You know the kind of people that built your country)

There are over 1 Million Jamaicans living in the USA (2.7 Million in JA). This means that Every Jamaican here (Including me) has family and friends in the states. Those links don't evaporate when the plane takes off. Many of those Jamaicans leave here with very little education and are lucky to make minimum wage. They still manage to save the kinds of money I mentioned.

The lifestyle of this uneducated immigrant starts out at less than most Slashdoters can tolerate. Being able to cook each day instead of eating out, having a taste for "5th quarter" (Ox Tail, Turkey Neck) helps to reduce cost. Important things like education are spending priority. They buy second hand repossessed cars as the financial situation improves.

They live in places like Brucklin and then buy houses in Long Island that are nearly condemned and spend a year fixing it up without professional help then sell it for 2X to 3X the purchase price. a rented Manhattan Apartment is only used if it comes with the job.

Of course there are those that just become American bums and start collecting welfare as soon as they qualify or get into crime. Lucky for you they are a minority. The IRS says Jamaican Americans are on average wealthier (I.e. Paying more taxes) than Most other ethnic groups.

--
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?

Has anyone else noticed it sucks? by LeoDV · 2003-09-30 09:31 · Score: 2

This isn't a troll, don't get me wrong the whole idea is amazing, and they're doing a lot more than anyone else is doing, but so far I've only seen pages which describe courses and things like that. There's never much acutal content. Just a short page describing the course. If you're lucky you get links to PDF's assignments and stuff made with Powerpoint, which is a step up, but you never get all the info.

Guess you still have to pay for that.

Re:Has anyone else noticed it sucks? by Lawrence_Bird · 2003-09-30 10:39 · Score: 1

i was about to say the same.. very few courses actually have the lecture notes, which after all is what we are all after. Putting up problem sets &/or text book names is hardly earth shattering or useful.
Re:Has anyone else noticed it sucks? by karlm · 2003-09-30 20:58 · Score: 1

The texts are copyrighted, and most of this year's lecture notes haven't been written yet.

--
Copyright Violation:"theft, piracy"::Anti-Trust Violation:"thermonuclear price terrorism"<-Overly dramatic language.

IMPORTANT by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 09:39 · Score: 0

Hold shift and type: ess you see kay space, em why space, dee eye see kay comma space, eff ay gee gee zero tee; exclamation point exclamation point (let go of shift), one one one.

Is it just me? Or is this not really that cool? by popo · 2003-09-30 09:44 · Score: 1

Or did you think this was going to be much cooler than it actually is?

When MIT first announced they were going to opensource their course content, I was under the impression that this would amount to more than course syllabi. I poked through a few courses and I see:

1) A bibliography naming the texts used.
2) A syllabus of chapters read by specific dates.
3) Test questions.

If you ask me this is "opensourced curriculum" is total vaporware.

So MIT is doing what? They're telling me what book to read?

Maybe I just poked through some of the more "direct from the textbook" courses, and maybe there are some that include lectures, professor-prepared materials, and video... but I didn't see them.

--
------ The best brain training is now totally free : )

Buy used text books by CatGrep · 2003-09-30 09:44 · Score: 1

finding that their $150 Accounting 101 book became worthless after the sememster was over.

Actually, how much could change in an Accounting 101 text book from one revision to another? I often buy used text books which are one edition out of date on
Amazon and I save big $$$ (the new, latest edition might be $80, while the used last edition is usually around $10 incl. shipping). Generally speaking, you don't find much difference between the editions as long as you don't go back more than one addition.

It is a bit of a scam on the part of the textbook companies, IMHO, and it certainly wastes a lot of paper. If Teachers would continue to use older editions (where appropriate) that would help students save money as well.

Re:Poor places (Re:Hopefully this will start a tre by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 09:49 · Score: 0

At least people could access it from their local public library

normal in denmark by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 09:51 · Score: 0

This is normal beaviour of danish universities,
see for example www.diku.dk. (the first pages are
in danish but when you get deeper they turn english)Some classes even have videos available.(dont know if they are in english, but many classes are held in english, so...)

And if you happen to pass by you can attend all the classes. The only thing you cannot do is take the exam without being enrolled.

Cern also has a large repository of lectures on video.
http://public.web.cern.ch/public/education /edu.htm l

blah by sewagemaster · 2003-09-30 10:04 · Score: 1

lot of the courses can be found online, not just MITs. google.com/ is our friend.
i guess MIT's one of the rare ones that's making it 'openly' online; free as in beer.

but thanks to the stupid webct system, profs are starting to put contents there and making it all protected.

of course you can argue that since the profs made those lecture notes and exams, it's his/her right whether to publish for the public...

--
my blog

leveraging power of speculative production capital by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 10:06 · Score: 0

similar to ibm backing linux, mit proposes to put course content online with 'OpenCourseWare.' as with ibm, the open standards system is being used to leverage production capital. i.e. mit is leveraging its research (production) with its education mode. OpenCourseWare serves as an advertisement for increasing production capital. the president is not worried about enrollment because
the power is in the production.

at the same time, reliance on the traditional hardware(ibm)/degree(mit) is preserved and extended. open-source is not seen as a threat to brand-name, to hardware production, nor to the education legitimacy process of the status quo. the patents, the degree, are still created. they are used as an element of the production discourse. yes, you could claim to have taken the courses online, you could take the open-source tests even. you could even be certified (degreed) by some third-party vendor.

but what is your connection to production capital?

patents, degrees, hardware, are after-all mainly to increase shareholder confidence, these are back-end and end-user commitments which are by no means disregarded or unprofitable, but which are an essential part of leveraging power, dollars, confidence, to the front end: to a belief in a *future* production, to an increasing operating, production, research budget based on a general public/peer attitude of future production potential.

intellectual property is thus a sort of status-builder. yes, much money is made by increasing the patent enforcement. but this enforcement serves to continue the general subversive myth that power lies in ownership. that is, ownership (or 'non'-ownership) is leveraged to utilize and increase current advantages of production resources. the product is guarded as something of value in order to facilitate further production. the product (be it television, newspaper, mp3, vhs, or education) is distributed (all the better if you can get people to pay for the distribution channels... pay for the hardware, tv, vcr, computer, degree, operating system, but it works as well if it is gpl'd or open-source, so long as the author/producer is preserved) in a manner which increases the power of the product's producer through increasing confidence in their production capability. the content of a newspaper is an advertisement for the newspaper's continued and future ability to produce. produce what? its own continued and future ability to produce. the product offers a certain position, a certain audience. no one just sits back and makes money off their 'intellectual property' product - the whole business is in facilitating and leveraging a production *possibility*, a perceived *potential*.

> http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/nr/2001/ocw.html

MIT President Charles M. Vest has announced that the Massachusetts Institute of Technology will make the materials for nearly all its courses freely available on the Internet over the next ten years. He made the announcement about the new program, known as MIT OpenCourseWare (MITOCW), at a press conference at MIT on Wednesday, April 4th.

"I have to tell you that we went into this expecting that something creative, cutting-edge and challenging would emerge. And, frankly,

***we also expected that it would be something based on a revenue-producing model***

-- a project or program that took into account the power of the Internet and its potential for new applications in education." ...

"OpenCourseWare looks counter-intuitive in a market driven world. It goes against the grain of current material values. ***But it really is consistent*** with what I believe is the best about MIT. It is innovative. It expresses our belief in the way education can be advanced -- by constantly widening access to infor

Re:Question by benna · 2003-09-30 10:08 · Score: 1

Silancing him because he tells the truth?

--
"It is not how things are in the world that is mystical, but that it exists." -Ludwig Wittgenstein

Where's the Beef? by xeo_at_thermopylae · 2003-09-30 10:09 · Score: 1

Where's the lecture content? Without that the course is almost useless - you could read the book instead, if you're capable of that.

Until they have the lectures and demonstrations online, this is little more than a giant advertisement for MIT.

Re:Is it just me? Or is this not really that cool? by symbolic · 2003-09-30 10:11 · Score: 1

Look a little further. Some courses even offer the BOOKS online. I wish all of them did that, but for the ones that don't, they have links to the publisher.

Am I missing something? by CrazyTrashCanHead · 2003-09-30 10:14 · Score: 1

How do I get their content out of OCW? I mean, sure, having the content there is all fine and dandy, but they seem pretty set on keeping it hosted at MIT, without modification, or forcing you to cut and paste.

Does anyone see an export or download option?

you have one thing left to read by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 10:19 · Score: 0

and that is what a quantum leap is

"leet speak" is what lamers call it by DrSkwid · 2003-09-30 10:22 · Score: 1

<|-|/\05 73><7 is it's real name

--
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter

Because one of the professors created it... by losvedir · 2003-09-30 10:28 · Score: 1

Seriously. ;) And there are probably other reasons, too :D

--
"True dat with a wiffle ball bat." -- kabrakan

Re:I'm still waiting on Richard Stallman's Guide.. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 10:44 · Score: 0

It would be Feynman. I've been able to decipher step one from "Surely you're joking.."

1) Be brilliant
2) Hang out in strip clubs
3) ... Uhm Someone help me out here.

how do you use that thing? by Sivaram_Velauthapill · 2003-09-30 10:57 · Score: 1

Do you have to register? I don't really see anything on the website? Can someone give me a sample link? Thanks!

BTW, this is great--if it is as good as it sounds. This, along with other collaborative sites like wikipedia.org, will help a lot...

Sivaram Velauthapillai

--
Sivaram Velauthapillai
Seeking the meaning of life... @slashdot of all places ;)

employer by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 10:58 · Score: 0

largest Employer in the US

The US postal service? Jeeze, I feel so envious...

wtf? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 11:05 · Score: 0

This really sucks, I posted this over a month ago when it first came out. Rejected...

Where is the SOURCE CODE! by alexborges · 2003-09-30 11:41 · Score: 1

SHOW ME

--
NO SIG

Re:I'm still waiting on Richard Stallman's Guide.. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 11:50 · Score: 0

I look forward to reading it while playing Duke Nukem: Forever ;)

video or audio by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 12:03 · Score: 0

Are there any video or audio clips of lectures with any of these courses? I couldn't find any.

Library Hours by bezuwork's+friend · 2003-09-30 12:13 · Score: 1

Here in Arlington, my local library has different hours each day which is annoying. Fridays it closes at 5:00 pm and it is closed Sundays. The computers have a signup and are usually booked around 2 hrs in advance, at least for the hour terminals. Not the best place to learn computing.

If you can get to the library of congress, it's open till 9:00 pm three days a week, and closed Sundays as well. The nice thing about the LOC is that printing is free.

George Mason University, NOVA, and American University don't check - anyone can come in. Not sure if the computers are accessible, except that I did browse somewhat at NOVA.

George Washington University, OTOH, won't let you in without a card. Even then, the law school requires a login to access the internet, although the undergrad library allows Internet access on some computers without logging in.

So, even in the same area, and for the same kind of institutions, there is variation.

Globalization might help by Ohreally_factor · 2003-09-30 13:39 · Score: 0

All those jobs moving to developing nations are helping change the levels of poverty. Our standard of living might drop, but the standard of living in Mexico, India, China, and other nations is rising. Globalization is, in part, fueled by the internet. So, yes, the internet is helping the fight against poverty. So sorry if you're unemployed in the U.S. because of globalization. Hopefully, it's increased the value of your stock portfolio to offset your loss.

--
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.

Thank you by Roundtable · 2003-09-30 13:46 · Score: 1

All can sa is thank you to MIT. This is a fantastic resource, I know I'm priveliged to own a computer, and be able to access this, but this is like a gold mine to me.

Re:Poor places (Re:Hopefully this will start a tre by Anonymous+Coed · 2003-09-30 13:47 · Score: 1

Shouts out to all my brothers down on JAH ISLE.

Re:Poor places (Re:Hopefully this will start a tre by svallarian · 2003-09-30 13:53 · Score: 1

No need for that kind of expenditure....

Get a well used P300, win98, 56k modem, 15" monitor, 6 gig hd for around $125-$200

Then use free internet access via AOL until you can find a suitable low-cost dial up isp in your area (for example access4less.net - $5 month - a big jump from your dsl / decent amd system scenario).

People in poor countries could also get a cheap pc, but the problem in most of those countries is cheap phone service (or phone service at all).

Apparently, in the last wired I read, they mentioned that chinese pirates were already downloading and burning these courses to CD and selling them with the rest of their "software".

Not a bad idea though, you could get an MIT education for the $5. :0

Steven V.

--
I patented screwing your mom. But it got revoked for "prior art."

Re:Is it just me? Or is this not really that cool? by updog · 2003-09-30 13:54 · Score: 1

I think it depends upon which class you are looking at... for example, The Art of Counting has only a Syllabus, Calander, and Assignments (with no solutions). I don't think that's too helpful to anyone.

On the other hand, circuits and electronics also has exams, labs, and lecture notes.

What I want to know is though - where are the answers? ;-)

Re:I'm still waiting on Richard Stallman's Guide.. by Lord_Dweomer · 2003-09-30 15:04 · Score: 1

""101 fun things to do while riding the space elevator".

Fun thing 53 - Spit.

--
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!

Learn somthing every day by bezuwork's+friend · 2003-09-30 15:07 · Score: 1

From 21A.110 Anthropological Theory, Spring 2003:

The death of Captain James Cook at Kealakekua Bay, Hawaii. (Archival photograph by Sean Linehan, courtesy of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.)

Documentary photographers on 18th century exploring ships?

inflated number of courses by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 16:11 · Score: 0

Seems they have added quite a few incomplete courses in order to flesh out the number of available courses.

eg: 6.071 Introduction to Electronics, Fall 2002

Less than half the lecture notes are available. More importantly all the basics are missing, rendering the available notes useless unless you already know the subject somewhat.

This reminds me of ... by efextra · 2003-09-30 17:46 · Score: 1

... Recordings of Prof. Raj Jain's lectures on a variety of networking topics including ATM, Optical Networking, Telecommunications, and Internet Protocols.

Online courses by efextra · 2003-09-30 17:59 · Score: 1

http://directory.google.com/Top/Reference/Educatio n/Distance_Learning/Online_Courses/Engineering/?il =1

because C is for suckers by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 18:29 · Score: 0

Seriously, you SHOULDN'T use C for hardly any software project. It's basically a "portable" assembly. You can do anything with it you can imagine and therefore things happen you couldn't have imagined. The world would be a better place if we all forgot about C and moved on to better languages that can compile down to machine code just as well... ocaml, python, commonlisp, (depending) java, etc.

more hot air and empty rhetoric by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 18:47 · Score: 0

MIT's website is OK. I can see why they'd do such a thing anyway for their own record keeping and to cut down on paper, but I think the spin they gave it is just to rope in more millions of dollars from some stupid-rich corporate sponsors and endowments.

I mean, at every university most courses have a website and materials online. MIT just used some software package to standardize the format. Doing it for "all mankind"? What a bunch of bullshit.

How about working some problems... by mabhatter654 · 2003-09-30 19:44 · Score: 1

How about You working some problems and posting the answers...or better yet, creating problems. Get the idea. The point of MIT doing this is as a seedling for an entirely online educational community.

It's up to everyone else to make SOMETHING out of it!

Re:How about working some problems... by urbazewski · 2003-10-01 01:17 · Score: 1

When I was a professor teaching economics everything that was handed out in the class, the syllabus, the problem sets, the exams, the solutions, were available online to anyone, as were the blog-like updates on the class with links to newspaper arrticles etc. My impression is that this is the standard now, not the exception.
MIT received a very large grant (millions of $) and phenomenal amounts of publicity for this endeavor. Consequently, I expected something more than what I and most other (non-fossilized) professors were/are already doing on our time, typically with IT support from the university. (UCSC in my case.)
When I'm learning about something new, I already go to university websites and look at course pages for ideas on references or books. It's also fun to check out literature classes for novels to read. Seedlings of this sort are already common on the web, and some have grown into healthy young trees. MIT is not starting a trend here, or coming up with some great new idea that's going to inspire other universities to follow suit -- it's already being done.
Check out this site for example http://www.scholars.uh.edu/~math1300help/ which generates practice problems and solutions for basic algebra. It's been incredibly useful for the woman I'm tutoring right now. It's way more sophisticated than the sample of things I looked at on the MIT site, provided free of charge for everyone by the University of Houston.
And if anyone is in the mood to work out some intermediate economics problems contact me through my website and I'll send you a whole lot of pdfs....

--
foldplay your photos won't know what hit them.

Arg! Where are the signal processing courses?? by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 19:58 · Score: 0

I've been waiting for them to put up the signal processing courses, and *none* of them are up. Not even 6.003...

Does anyone know any other university that has similar subjects online?

Re:Hopefully this will start a trend:Library by lendingcduk · 2003-09-30 21:02 · Score: 1

think that the MIT cources are brilliant. Unfortunately people still can't easily get Open Source software. That is why I am donating about 3000 copies of OpenOffice 1.1 final to the libraries of the UK as lending CD's. Hopefully it will start a trend so that other open source software will be available there.

OCW Goals by ahodgkinson · 2003-09-30 21:09 · Score: 2, Informative

One of MIT's main goals with OCW is to provide course materials for other universities. OCW's primary mission is not to provide a free education to individuals with internet access, though there is nothing in their policy that prevents it. The real winners from OCW will be institutes of higher learning that can now use the OCW material as a basis for creating their own university courses. Obviously universities in poorer countries can benefit greatly from OCW.

About a year ago, when OCW was first being accounced, I attended a presentation by a MIT official who explained OCW and some of the issues behind it. He also explained that there was some resistance by professors, which mainly fell into the following areas:

Concern over intellectual property and copyright issues.
Concern that the professors would not have enough time, to prepare OCW versions of their courses, given their present research and teaching responsibilities.
Concern that the material presented via OCW would be of high quality and worthy of MIT.

Interestingly the resistance due to IP/copyright concerns was the smallest of the problems. In fact most professors (and students) welcomed OCW, and from what I've read in the press, most of the world has too. That said, I was not too surprised to read the previously mentioned article critical of OCW. To complain that your degree will be watered down, because because others will have access to the same material for free, is selfish to say the least. Such remarks are definitly not in the spirit of MIT, at least not while I was there in the early 80's.

You will note that OCW, in its early stages, will probably consist of a wide variety of items in strange and incompatible formats, hopefully coalescing over time into a more unified body of information. This is deliberate. MIT has a policy of never specifying too many details. In OCW's case, this means that MIT is not specifying how the material must be technically presented or formatted, knowing that the best ideas will bubble up as MIT's creative minds ship away at the problem. Indeed another goal of OCW is to find better ways to use the internet to enhance the learning experience. In some ways, OCW's journey is also it's destination, with the hope of finding something interesting along the way.

This approach, is what lead to the creation of X (and a ton of other cool stuff) as a spinoff of the Athena project. There the stated goal was (somewhat simplified):

We have a bunch of different computers, let's connect them all together in a network, in spite of the different hardware and operating systems.

Compare that to all the universities that implemented their campus wide networks by merely mandating that everyone must purchase an IBM-PC/Apple/etc.

--
---- It won't be as bad as you fear or as good as you hope, but it will take twice as long as you plan.

yes by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 21:46 · Score: 0

i do

Re:I'm still waiting on Richard Stallman's Guide.. by Anonymous Coward · 2003-09-30 23:54 · Score: 0

How to Get Laid, For Nerds.

Maybe you're confusing it with ESR's Sex Tips for Geeks?

study groups? by d6thbsb · 2003-09-30 23:56 · Score: 1

Has there been any attempt for self-learners to organize themselves into study groups? This would be incredibly useful, imho. I would do it myself, but I am not good at organizing and I know jack about html.

Re:Poor places (Re:Hopefully this will start a tre by stanmann · 2003-10-01 00:15 · Score: 1

Well, if that were the choice, they would have my compassion and help, but typically the choice is big screen color TV and cable vs PC and Internet. When In HS, I had neighbors on "public assistance" with 27 inch TVs in each room. IT is all about choices.

--
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed

I seem to recall... by Anonymous Coward · 2003-10-01 01:19 · Score: 0

...something about "Always make her pay for dinner."

Re:Hopefully this will start a (x1488) by Anonymous Coward · 2003-10-01 01:24 · Score: 0

So...is it the school's fault that the dumb whore ran out and got married? Maybe she should close her legs next time.

Re:Hopefully this will start a (x1488) by Anonymous Coward · 2003-10-01 02:46 · Score: 0

You sir, are a dumbass troll, which is probably why you posted AC. However I will point out that someone choosing to get married doesn't make them a dumb whore. That would be a person who drops out because she's pregnant.

More poor places by mihai · 2003-10-01 05:41 · Score: 1

For Internet access is even worst, since in poor countries comunications costs are enormous. In Romania, for example, a dialup connections kept always on costs 300 USD, while minimum wage is 15 USD/week (excluding taxes). Fortunately for just learning high bandwith and full-time access are not required (and may be even counter-productive)
OTOH, computers can be have much cheaper. A new, entry-level system goes for about 400 USD (with monitor and networking). Software costs are kept low either using Linux or (ever popular) unauthorized copies.

More information generates more information by Via_Patrino · 2003-10-01 14:54 · Score: 1

More information generates more information, how many more people have access to information more information is generated by them, MIT students will also win in the end.

Most information we are tougth are in books, the professors just force us to learn that, the way they do that and your colegues average capacity (how much the professor can demand from them) is what makes a university different from another.

Poor people Re:Poor places by Scandal · 2003-10-02 15:23 · Score: 1

having a taste for "5th quarter" (Ox Tail, Turkey Neck) helps to reduce cost. Important things like education are spending priority. They buy second hand repossessed cars as the financial situation improves.

Oxtail, where I am, has suddenly become expensive, as people seem to have discovered it tastes good.

The tricks of the trade (living on a low budget) are get harder.

However, I'm curious, how many slashdotters are raking it in, so to speak?

I know plenty of skilled coders out there who don't make the money they should be making, for whatever reason.

Of course, plenty for me, could be a paltry sum for /. itself.

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