PC Mag Gives Panther 5-Star Rating

Cycline3 writes "The subject says it all. PC Mag gave the big black cat a five-out-of-five star rating. I really like Panther, but I never would have imagined that this would happen. Pretty cool. PC users take note!"

Comments

you never?

[rritterson]

The poster must not be a big reader of pc mag.

PC Mag has been giving good reviews to apple products for a long time. Here is a link to a review of 10.1 (4/5 stars).

I also don't understand the surprise. What would a PC user find wrong with a mac? It's similar enough to windows to be usuable. I don't use apples because I don't like the lack of 3rd party hardware and the more limited upgradability. There is nothing wrong with the OS.

Re:you never?

[Bastian]

A lot of PC users I have worked with are extremely resistant to using Mac OS machines. It's better with OS X than it is with OS 9 and earlier, but most of the average users I know are threatened by things like the lack of a Start menu and a Windows-style taskbar. Once I've shown them the ropes and explained all the Mac OS equivalents, they get a lot more comfortable.

Regardless, I've noticed that the defining feature of a great number of computer users is that they freeze up in the face of anything new or different. I imagine it's the same mechanism that gave rise to those interesting statistics about how Windows 3.1 users learned Windows 95 more slowly than people who were just learning to use a computer.

So all in all, I gotta say that there is one huge glaring thing that a lot of PC users find wrong with Macs: they aren't PCs.

Re:you never?

[trouser]

Lack of 3rd party hardware?

I'm curious to know what hardware you're talking about? These days anything I'd buy to plug into my PC I seem to be able to plug into my Mac as well and the Mac generally does a better job of recognising and talking to the crap I plug into it.

I'm talking about stuff like printers, cameras, scanners, etc.

Re:you never?

[stefanlasiewski]

So all in all, I gotta say that there is one huge glaring thing that a lot of PC users find wrong with Macs: they aren't PCs

Why do you blame this on just PC users? The reverse is also true. Plenty of Mac users don't like Windows because Windows lacks some nifty Mac features.

Re:you never?

[Bastian]

But what if I wanna buy the latest snazzy graphics card so I can play all the cool new video games that aren't ever going to be ported to the Mac anyways so I'm not sure why I'm even talking.

Seriously, while exterior peripheral support is great on Macs, the support for a lot of internal hardware (really mostly just PCI and AGP cards) is lacking.

But I can't remember the last time I needed to stick a new PCI card in my PC, let alone my Mac.

Re:you never?

[rritterson]

Sorry- I should have been more specific. I meant third-party cases and motherboards, and the like

Re:you never?

[Graff]

Plenty of Mac users don't like Windows because Windows lacks some nifty Mac features.

Yeah, like style, ease of use, consistent user interfaces, great included applications, impressive system stability, lack of viruses, good security, beautiful and functional hardware...

:-)

Honestly though, use whatever you want but be sure to try everything with an open mind. I will totally admit that Windows has come a long way with Windows XP and in some ways it is better than Mac OS X. Obviously a lot of people are using Microsoft over Apple, for whatever their reasons are. More power to them, I choose Mac OS X for my own reasons.

Competition is a good thing and Windows users should be glad that Apple is keeping Microsoft on its toes, as well as the hardware manufacturers.

Re:you never?

[edalytical]

I meant third-party cases and motherboards

Why what's wrong with Mac cases? My G4 case, as you know, has a fold down side making upgrades and repairs that mush easier. It also has a place for a pad lock, to keep your ram safe from a would be thief, plus it has an area to attach a cable that will lock the entire computer to something. And don't forget the ever helpful handles. I just wish the G5 case also folded down, oh well, it looks like it's still easy to get inside of.

Maybe I'm being ignorant, but what's stopping you from using another case?

What would you gain from using a different logic board?

Re:you never?

[torpor]

What would you gain from using a different logic board?

Just ignore him. All PC users feel the need to replace bits of their computer that they're not happy with.

Re:you never?

[Anonymous Coward]

How about webcams? It seems Logitech and Orange Micro are the only ones that support theirs on the Mac.

Re:you never?

[Lars T.]

Sure, you can buy graphics cards for the PC that you can't buy for the Mac - yet. Not that most of the hyped features are actually used even by the latest games - and infact won't be until the card is an old hat on the Mac. Nor can you buy Daikatana for the Mac, nor Winmodems, nor a cheap Soundblaster16 compatible card. I feel so left out.

Re:you never?

[Anonymous Coward]

Whereas all Mac users, on the other hand, are happy with their computers as they are. The lesson? If you do it right from the start, there won't be any need to dick around with it later.

Re:you never?

[capmilk]

what's wrong with Mac cases?

I love the design of the G4 cases, but there is one thing that really sucks big time: they are noisy. My MDD case vibrates so much it causes a clearly audible hum. When I press the door firmly against the case, the hum stops. A different case would be a nice thing now...

Re:you never?

[IAmAMacOSXAddict]

If you really don't like the noise, upgrade. I have a G5 Dual and it is virtually silent. Between the 23"lcd and the computer the white noise in a quiet room is louder...

Re:you never?

[IAmAMacOSXAddict]

I can say with certanty that if the camera has a USB (1 or 2) or an IEEE1394(Apple Firewire or Sony Ilink) it will work without modification.

Re:you never?

[justinkim]

That's not really a solution. Upgrade to a completely new computer because of the noise? Granted, there are a lot of reasons to upgrade to a G5, but in most cases operation noise alone probably isn't enough of one (unless you're filthy moneybags rich, that is).

Re:you never?

[kwerle]

I'm curious to know what hardware you're talking about?

Not that I'm the original complainer, but...

It ticks me off that I can't plug in any video card I want.

How about sound cards - I dunno.

How about any cards?

There are plenty of USB devices that won't work (radio receivers and the like).

Re:you never?

[Frequency Domain]

...the defining feature of a great number of computer users is that they freeze up in the face of anything new or different.

It's the baby duck syndrome. The first thing you are exposed to is mama, and everything else is a predator trying to eat you.

Re:you never?

[proj_2501]

i think PCI sound boards will become a thing of the past.

the future is USB audio/MIDI interfaces for those who don't need ridiculously low latency and FireWire audio/MIDI interfaces for those that do. even digidesign makes outboard pro tools systems

Re:you never?

[kwerle]

To which I say "Economy of Scale".

Until the Mac has > 10% of the marketplace (wouldn't that be nice), all those mac-only boards will be more expensive than their PC equivalents.

Remember when Mac memory was different from PC memory? Didn't that suck? Remember when Mac keyboards were different from PC keyboards (ADB, etc)? Didn't that suck? Yeah, you could buy both, but the Mac ones were more expensive, and you didn't get all the same choices.

I want the same for vid cards, etc.

Re:you never?

[madcow_ucsb]

Just out of curiosity, why WOULD there be hardware incompatabilities with PCI cards? The PCI spec determines all low level behavior (signaling, etc is common between any PCI system). The only things that should be different would be what you say with those signals - which should be strictly a driver thing shouldn't it (and typically would be the same between platforms, endian-type issues aside)?

For development, we put our chip (PCI on one side) on a board and it talks to a PC just fine. And while I've never tried sticking it in a mac, I see no reason why it wouldn't work (assuming we had drivers for it, but that's not a hardware issue at all)

Re:you never?

[kwerle]

Cheaper is a slightly different issue.

Cheaper is exactly the issue. If I had a billion dollars, I could buy anything I wanted for the Mac.

Availability is all about cost.

The components may or may not get cheaper, but they are available, and they will probably not become compatible any time soon.

PCI is a standard. VGA is a standard. OpenGL is a standard. Etc. What compatibility are you talking about?

Re:you never?

[tang]

Logitech 9300(I think thats the model) usb. I bought it a year ago. It doesn't work. There are some for-pay drivers available I've heard, but I already paid for the camera(98$), I dont need to spend 30$ more on it.

Re:you never?

[Ohreally_factor]

Another downside to the Mac Experience is that graphics cards tend to cost more, because there aren't as many vendors competing for your money.

Re:you never?

[Ohreally_factor]

It's the firmware on the hardware that's usually the issue. In somecases you can flash the firmware on a PC to use the card in a mac, but not in all cases. I think this was more common with the old Voodoo cards.

Re:you never?

[scumdamn]

Aren't there two vendors either way?

Re:you never?

[madcow_ucsb]

Yeah, I've heard that. I just don't see why the firmware on the card would need to change based on the PCI host...it seems like if the drivers are doing what they should, the board shouldn't ever even know it's in a different environment. Oh well. I've only got a laptop at the moment so the point is moot to me anyway :)

Re:you never?

[Permission Denied]

Why what's wrong with Mac cases?

The hard disk bracket is connected with one very small low-profile philips screw in an awkwardly-placed recessed counter-sunk hole. I've stripped a number of these screws. I've taken to moving the hard disk from the bottom position in the bracket to the top position so the screw could be replaced with a standard screw with a deeper head.

Past that, I have no complaints about the b/w G3, G4, or quicksilver cases and I've worked on a lot of them.

Now, I can rant on and on about iMac cases - it takes at least a half hour to remove a disk in any revision of the iMac. If your hand slips while putting it back together, you get a loose screw in the innards and you have to do the medicine-ball-dance to get it out.

Still waiting for mine

[tuxedobob]

I think Expose alone is worth the $70 I paid for it.

Re:Still waiting for mine

[cosmo7]

The new interface functions are really just icing on the cake (not that icing is unwelcome). Panther fixes a number of restrictions facing developers and offers some new widgets. For example, 10.3 allows custom cursors larger than 16 x 16 pixels. There is a new rotary slider control, a new webview, and so on.

These are features in Panther that will only become apparent as developers release products that use them. By buying Panther you're getting more than is immediately apparent.

Re:Still waiting for mine

[metamatic]

Yup. I never could get on with virtual desktops, but now with expos I get the benefits without the hassle.

Expose is worth gold...

[Anonymous Coward]

I am seriously thinking that there is no better os invention than Expose. NONE - not even the stinking BSD kernel... expose makes my life complete. DONE. D O N E

Re:Expose is worth gold...

[Lussarn]

This is on no way a troll but what exactly is expose. I have not used Mac os X, i use a gnome desktop. If I understand it correctly expose is a way to fix window clutter. On my Gnome desktop I don't have windows clutter. I don't move my windows around much. Every major program I use have its own workspace.

Isn't expose just a way to solve something which other UIs like Gnome doesn't have (window clutter)?

Or if I have understand it incorrectly please explain to me what it does.

Re:Expose is worth gold...

[b-baggins]

That's because Gnome, KDE and Windows GUIs are single-task environments. They force you in to doing one thing at a time, and thinking about one thing at a time. That's why most people run their apps full screen.

The OS X is a multi-taks GUI environment. It lends itself to users doing many things at the same time, and keeping track of those many things.

Expose simply takes that paradigm a step farther. It does much more than manage window clutter. It allows you to be more effective at multitasking with your computer.

Re:Expose is worth gold...

[Maserati]

You can see Expose in action here. All of the screenshots are links to a QuickTime movie of Expose working. Take a look if you can find a machine running QuickTime.

Re:Expose is worth gold...

[yomegaman]

That expose looks pretty nifty. Of course, if you bought a PC laptop then you could get one with a 1400x1050 or 1600x1200 screen and have your windows tiled all of the time. This functionality is only necessary because Apple refuses to ship high-resolution LCDs for some perverse reason.

Re:Expose is worth gold...

[majipoor]

Are you kidding? Or may be you only use your computer to surf the web?

Whatever the resolution of the screen, as soon as you have a few open applications and a few open folders, it is impossible to keep all windows visible and arranged.

And I guess you never actually see expose in action.

Once again a PC user who criticize MacOS X without having used it for more than a few minutes.

Re:Expose is worth gold...

[shotfeel]

That's still not big enough. The dock indicates I have 15 applications running. Push F9 and see I have 27 windows open. I'd need a surround monitor for that.

Re:Expose is worth gold...

[stripes]

This is on no way a troll but what exactly is expose. I have not used Mac os X, i use a gnome desktop. If I understand it correctly expose is a way to fix window clutter.

It doesn't solve or even address window clutter. It solves finding the window you want.

For example when I code I normally use two terminal windows, one on the left for the code, one on the right to run the program in the debugger, look at the output, or even bring up man pages. Expose doesn't get in the way of that, it still lets me put the windows where I want. Nor does expose help me use the two windows, I mean who needs anythign fancy to switch between two side by side windows? In OSX I use the command keys, in X I throw the mouse from side to side. It is only when I want to switch to things I use less (the mail app, a web browser, a calculator if I don't end up using bc...) that I bother with expose. Even then a lot of times I use command-tab.

On my Gnome desktop I don't have windows clutter. I don't move my windows around much. Every major program I use have its own workspace.

So, ok, if you didn't have cluttered windows you wouldn't have as much problems finding the one you wanted, but expose doesn't alter the way you lay out your windows which is actually a big win for people. It isn't a new thing to get use to when you start putting windows where you think you want them, only for when you want to find them. Even then only for when they are not already where you want them.

Virtual desktops (which I assume Gnome workspaces are) help you lay out windows in a new (to most people, I know vtwm used it 10+ years ago, as did tvtwm which I once maintained) way. If you take to that kind of layout then it is a big help to you. For some people it can get in the way. The new way does reduce clutter, and to an extent it helps you find windows. You know "my web browser is over there" and "my xterms for the servers are down there" and "GIMP is over there". On the other hand if you just started playing with a new program, you may not have memorised where you are keeping it, and you'll have to look at the little virtual desktop manager, or pan through how ever many workspaces you keep to find it.

Nothing would prevent expose form working with virtual desktops, which might help if you had some with more windows then you could easally pick from.

It might not help you, but I'm sure not all people who use GNOME experiance "no window clutter", and even if they all keep their windows layed out nicely I'm sure they can't always find every window they want quickly.

Well, plus, it looks way cool :-)

Re:Expose is worth gold...

[yomegaman]

I criticized Mac OS X? Where? I just said that Mac laptops should have higher-res screens. Besides, I used OS X for over a year on my iBook before it died and I switched to a Windows laptop since you get so much more for your money there compared to the Powerbooks.

Once again a Mac user who just can't stand the idea that there is anything imperfect about the computer he overpaid for.

Re:Expose is worth gold...

[majipoor]

The thread concern expose and not laptop: when you say that having a high resolution screen make expose useless, you're just wrong and if you say that, it is either because you are just trolling or because you never actually use expose. And if you've never uses expose for actual work, how can you give any comment on it?

Re:Expose is worth gold...

[yomegaman]

Well, it's true that I was being a little facetious and giving a little dig at Apple. Since I can see how strongly it has affected you I take it back, since I can't stand to see a grown man cry like that. Happy?

Re:Expose is worth gold...

[tf23]

They force you in to doing one thing at a time

I don't know what KDE and Windows you've been using, but it's not the same ones I've been over the past few years. (Sorry, I never really used Gnome).

Seriously, how do the force you into doing one thing at a time? I can't alt-tab through running apps? I can't have 14 things running on my XP workstation next to me?

Hogwash.

It lends itself to users doing many things

Certainly, it lends itself far better w/ Expose then it did with earlier versions.

Wouldn't "managing window clutter" and "being more effective at multitasking" be nearly one in the same using a GUI?

Re:Expose is worth gold...

[shamino0]

That expose looks pretty nifty. Of course, if you bought a PC laptop then you could get one with a 1400x1050 or 1600x1200 screen and have your windows tiled all of the time. This functionality is only necessary because Apple refuses to ship high-resolution LCDs for some perverse reason.

Not true. Not true in the least.

My Mac destkop runs at 1920x1440 and even with that much real estate, there are still plenty of overlapping windows. And sometimes it's a pain to locate the one you want without a feature like Expose'.

During a typical session, my desktop will have open:

• AOL Instant Messenger (buddy list and a few chat windows)
• iTunes
• Mozilla (mail window and at least one browser window)
• Emacs (at 80x90 - having all that vertical space is really useful!)
• One or two Terminal windows

In addition to these (which are always open), I'll also have a few other apps that I'll quit after using them, including AppleWorks, iPhoto and Palm Desktop.

It is true that larger screens will allow you to space out the windows you have open. But it's also true that once you get used to having such a screen, you start opening more windows.

Re:Expose is worth gold...

[Amiasian]

Seriously, how do the force you into doing one thing at a time? I can't alt-tab through running apps? I can't have 14 things running on my XP workstation next to me?

I think what is meant is that Windows uses a "maximize" feature, which takes up the entire screen. By default, "maximize" on a Mac means "grow this window to fit the contents therein, and not further". It means Macs tend to focus on having multiple windows (of different apps - not talking about MDI here) on the screen simultaneously.

Granted, you can resize windows on both Mac and Windows to obtain the other system's functionality, but we're talking default operation here.

Re:Expose is worth gold...

[Toraz Chryx]

"The only think keeping me from getting a nice, new 15" AlBook is that when I unplugged the one at the Apple Store, it said "100% charged, 1:12 remaining" and that is simply an unacceptably short battery life."

Sounds to me like they didn't calibrate the battery, because the battery life on them is a LOT better than that.

Re:Expose is worth gold...

[b-baggins]

Force was a bad word choice. Encourage is a better one. Each Window in Windows, Gnome, KDE, etc. takes over your whole environment. The menu bar is contained within it, other windows for the application are contained within it, etc. This makes your whole focus and attention go to that one task.

The very idea of using a key to alt-tab through running apps is an example of this. You make a discreet change from one single-task to another.

The Mac user doesn't use the alt-tab as much, because his windows are free floating on the desktop, not bound within a "master application" window. The menu bar is global and changes to accomodate the current focus. The Mac gui lends itself to the user looking at his desktop as his work area with several applications and documents sitting on it. KDE et al compartmentalize the work area, restricting it to the front-most app. Thus, a more single-task mentality.

Wow.

[Sevn]

Malcolm X would be so proud that Panther is doing so well.

Re:Wow.

[commodoresloat]

You mean Malcolm OS X?

Re:Wow.

[surfimp]

FWIW, I know you're making a joke, and appreciate that at least some people are capable of recognizing the iconography Apple has appropriated for the marketing of OS X v10.3.

That said: Malcolm X had nothing to do directly with the Panthers. Malcolm was assassinated in February of '65 and the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense was formed in Oakland in '66, in response to police violence and repression against blacks in the community. The Panthers drew a large amount of inspiration from Malcolm's example, as did many other black pride / black power organizations who were looking to move beyond the constitutionalist/accomodationist "turn the other cheek" approach of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. (who was, as we all known, assassinated himself in '68).

Just for the sake of argument and not meaning my response as a flame of your joke, I strongly suspect Malcolm X couldn't give a damn about how well Apple's software product is doing. I would hazard that he might view Apple's decision to market their "Panther" product via the use of an all-black box and the "X" symbol as an example of whites exploiting African American cultural symbols for their own ends (and profits). Wouldn't be the first time, obviously.

But that's just me talking.

Re:Wow.

[Textbook Error]

I would hazard that he might view Apple's decision to market their "Panther" product via the use of an all-black box and the "X" symbol as an example of whites exploiting African American cultural symbols for their own ends (and profits).

Uh, right - on the other hand, given that he was a fairly smart guy, he may well have realised that the "X" stands for ten, the Panther is because all the Mac OS X releases are named after big cats, and the box is black for the same reason the Jaguar box had faux-Jaguar fur...

5 stars?

[saden1]

5 stars despite many know problems/issues? Something smells fishy to me.

Journalistic integrity requires that you never give a product with know issues 5 stars.

Re:5 stars?

[Llywelyn]

Even the GRE Analytical Writing section allows for minor grammar and spelling errors on their 6.0/6.0.

Me thinks you have an odd notion of "journalistic integrity."

Re:5 stars?

[Mirkon]

Maybe the catastrophic memory glitches make it seem more familiar to them.

Re:5 stars?

[Horny Smurf]

"5 stars" is a poor scale to begin with. You're talking 20% for each star. If they allow half stars, then the scale is limited to 10% demarquations.

Anyhow, look at the slashdot book reviews sometime.

Re:5 stars?

[shotfeel]

What amazes me is the Member Rating is also 5 stars. Who are these "members"?

You mean Panther runs on PCs?!?

[PasteEater]

Wow! It's about time. How long have we been waiting for this!

I'm going to be really pissed if it doesn't run on my 233 MHz Pentium II though. And does it *really* need 128 megs of RAM? Can't I skate by on 64? And $129? It should be free to anyone who bought a computer in the past three years.

That's just my small percentage of an opinion.

Re:You mean Panther runs on PCs?!?

[MikeXpop]

You laugh, but a computer with those same specs is sitting 3 feet away from me right now. Still works fine, and it came with the only graphics card I know of that has 4 megs of vram seperated into 4 blocks.

Re:then what's the point of having the 5th star?

[Bastian]

Really, how many operating systems have you used that didn't have known problems/issues?

Moving beyond Expose, let's talk about Preview...

[King Babar]

As expected, the reviewer points out that Expose is really, really cool. More interestingly to me, he also points out that Preview is much improved as well. I used to think it sucked, but now I've made it my default PDF viewer.

The most exciting thing about Preview, though, is that it's easy to predict that its beautiful new "Find" function will make its way into things like Safari. Seriously, "Find" is so good that it has pretty much changed the way I rifle through the dozens of PDFs of journal articles I have on my disk. Like, I can actually find what I'm looking for. :-)

My Experience...

[blackmonday]

I've been using Panther for a little less than a week and it's been bliss. Seriously, neither Windows XP or any Linux distro I've ever tried can touch Panther in terms of usability. It's very slick and polished, and blows even Jaguar away with lots of refinements in networking, the aqua GUI, and expose, the feature most likelt to be copied my MS when longhorn comes out.

The complainers will be the loudest of the bunch, and yes there are a few kinks. But note the firewire problem was an issue with the hardware chipset, not apple's programming. Obviously people like me, the happy ones are not going to get the headlines.

Re:My Experience...

[Llywelyn]

I have had no problems of the nature you are describing on my in-house LAN.

In short: WORKSFORME

Re:My Experience...

[Paradise Pete]

There's simply no detection of exterior machines

It's just the opposite for me. I can see dozens of other Macs that are on the same cable modem subnet. Just for snicks I've tried connecting to a few, but no one is using an easily guessed account and password.

Re:then what's the point of having the 5th star?

[weicco]

Problems that causes users to lose their files because of disk security (FileVault)? Nothing comes to mind... :)

Re:Moving beyond Expose, let's talk about Preview.

[MinutiaeMan]

I'm *really* hoping that they figure out a way to integrate Preview's PDF-rendering abilities into Safari, so that we can finally have a decent plugin to view PDF's inside the browser on OS X! (I know, there's a couple shareware plugins out there, but those never worked well enough for me.)

Written before the big problems surfaced?

[Zhe Mappel]

Magazines have lead times, so it wouldn't be unusual for PC Mag to have evaluated Panther before the lethal firewire and File Vault munching issues became apparent. Perhaps tellingly, the review has such a generic feel that it's not even apparent that PC Mag tried Panther; the piece reads like a regurgitated press release.

Minus two glaring faults that affect only certain users, Panther looks very good. And Apple will resolve the problems, albeit tardily. But the bottom line is: when you're costing people data loss, do you deserve a 100% rating.

Re:Written before the big problems surfaced?

[ChicagoBiker]

Well, since Apple is the inventor and owner of the Firewire standard, the problem that has surfaced is far less "their" fault than it is of the chipset makers skirting around the specifications. All Apple really did was start adhering to their own spec more stringently and as it turns out the chipmakers weren't.

Of course there's only one "look good" solution to this and that is Apple updates Panther to relax a little and then sends a memo to the chipset makers telling them they've got 6 months to get their product in line or it's going to break again.

But in the true industry changing fashion that Apple is known for they won't. And once again they'll force the compliance of their third party contributors through attrition (or firmware updates that shouldn't be necessary in the first place).

The tail doesn't wag the dog with Apple on their own technologies.

Re:Written before the big problems surfaced?

[Hawthorne01]

Inventor of IEEE 1394? Yes, sorta.

Owner? No.

reviews...

[Anonymous Coward]

...and CNET gave it a 6.8 out of 10. (here) Like most things in life, reviews are all about what you're looking for and what things are important to you. Read as many as possible.

As for my review... I can't imagine life without it... using Preview this past weekend must have saved me and my fiancee a few hours searching through loads of PDF annual reports. -Rob

Monopoly hardware...

[Cpt_Corelli]

I would be happy to use OS X on intel / AMD based hardware. In many ways I like it more than Windows XP.

What I don't like is the fact that Apple is the sole manufacturer of the hardware required to run the OS. Monopolies tend to create weird pricing and reduce innovation. It still seems to be a fact that Apple hardware price/performance ratio is poor compared to intel/amd-based hardware (but let's not go deeper into that dark alley again).

Re:Monopoly hardware...

[Demolition]

What I don't like is the fact that Apple is the sole manufacturer of the hardware required to run the OS. Monopolies tend to create weird pricing and reduce innovation.

Well, I'll concede that Apple's pricing is unappealing, but you must be thinking of some other company (*cough*Microsoft*cough*) when you mention "reduce[d] innovation". I think that even the most strident Apple-hater would agree that Apple's is innovative.

D.

Re:Monopoly hardware...

[squiggleslash]

Monopolies tend to create weird pricing and reduce innovation.

I'd say that depends on whether those monopolies have competition.

Remember the late 1980s? You had Apple, Commodore, Atari, and a collection of smaller names like Amstrad, Sinclair, etc, all producing boxes with their own OS, own hardware, own form-factors, etc.

That was a wonderful time to be in the computer industry because at that point there really was innovation. Commodore and Apple, in particular, were doing things that nobody else was doing and everyone was trying to find markets that needed supporting.

Today's "Everything's a PC clone, in fact, everything's a mini-tower" world is dull by comparison and very much berefit of choices and innovation. Apple is the odd one out, and Apple does seem, for the most part, to be the one company left that's innovating, or even inventing.

Re:Monopoly hardware...

[Cpt_Corelli]

I was more thinking of the internal production / supply chain / distribution process innovation that influence the manufacturing cost of the hardware.

I find it hard to believe that Apple has putting as much effort into that as e.g. Dell or other PC-manufacturers that face fierce competition.

Re:Monopoly hardware...

[Frequency Domain]

You're falling into the (very common) mistake of thinking that cost determines price. Econ 101 says that price is determined by the intersection of supply and demand. Cost relative to price yields the profit margin, which influences but is not the same as the supply curve. As such, I'd bet that you're wrong about Apple ignoring internal production / supply chain / distribution process, because those things all affect their profit margin.

Re:Monopoly hardware...

[blamanj]

I'd say that depends on whether those monopolies have competition.

Ever own a dictionary? They're easy to use, handy to have around, and relatively cheap. When used judiciously, can help prevent foot-in-mouth disease.

Re:Monopoly hardware...

[squiggleslash]

Ever understood complex ideas? The context is of "monopolies" where the same company controls both the software and the hardware, ie a company that has a monopoly on the hardware capable of running the software.

All monopolies have competitors. The Bell System had the postal system. Standard Oil had the coal industry.

Re:Monopoly hardware...

[aristotle-dude]

There is one factor you are missing here. R&D costs. Dell uses R&D to reduce costs on the production and supply chain whereas Apple uses R&D money to research and develop new products. What a concept huh? PC makers don't make anything orginal but rather just take comodity parts and repackage them. Apple has to price to cover overhead and R&D of new products. Then there is the concept of economies of scale that you should learn about. Who else besides Apple and Dell are actually making a profit in the consumer market?

Re:Monopoly hardware...

[TheNetAvenger]

Dell uses R&D to reduce costs on the production and supply chain whereas Apple uses R&D money to research and develop new products.

This is not 100% true anymore for Dell than it is for Apple with the exception of software development.

Dell is NOT a favorite company of mine, but they do spend a great deal of money on innovation in hardware and production quality. The last, something Apple should invest a little more in.

On the other side, Dell doesn't have to spend the R&D on software like Apple does, because there is a large supply of PC applications, fringe applications, not just mainstream products that they can pool from.

Also consider that most of the software R&D for PC manufacturers comes from either the Open Source or Microsoft, which spends a lot more money on software R&D than any other company.

Re:Monopoly hardware...

[TheNetAvenger]

Apple is the odd one out, and Apple does seem, for the most part, to be the one company left that's innovating, or even inventing.


Apple does more than their fair share, but I our test labs see more 'new' concepts from the MS R&D labs than Apple. Whether you like MS or not, they are putting Billions in research.

Since the NT initiative (which was a non-user side of OS engineering and architecture originally 'the guts of a new OS') to the OS/2 interface that IBM put in OS/2 2.0, and on to the Windows 95 UI, Microsoft has done a fair share of 'inventing' in both OS architecture and UI.

A lot of MS's inventing appears in the Office line before it trickles down to the OS. So Apple users get to use some of the new Microsoft stuff about the time PC users do.

Microsoft also has a lot of things up their sleeve in the next couple of years, things that would freak even Apple Users as the 'coolest thing they ever saw'.

But Apple does deserve their kudos for a lot of work, it was just sad they had such a dry spell in the 90s for innovation.

I'm am happy they are back in the game with OSX. It will push MS and the Open Source world to produce better UI experiences or take them to new levels even if Apple closed up shop today. (Which is not going to happen.)

Re:Monopoly hardware...

[tychay]

What I don't like is the fact that Apple is the sole manufacturer of the hardware required to run the OS. Monopolies tend to create weird pricing and reduce innovation.

Hmm, I guess I've woken up in Bizzaro World where somehow there's a new definition of "monopoly" because the Macintosh platform certainly doesn't fit the legal nor economic definitions.

Re:Monopoly hardware...

[Shadowland]

"It still seems to be a fact that Apple hardware price/performance ratio is poor compared to intel/amd-based hardware (but let's not go deeper into that dark alley again)."

If you didn't want to go "into that dark alley again", then why did you even mention it? Sounds like you want to get in a cheap shot at Apple value without having to justify your accusation.

Re:Monopoly hardware...

[jayratch]

I must have missed something here. Is there a quality, low-price PC I'm not aware of?

Go to apple.com, and configure a Powerbook G4.

Now open a new browser window, and go to dell.com. Select a model that has a comparable video setup- similar screen size, "real" graphics chipset, and non-shared videeo memory.

Configure, where you can, the same size memory and drive. Select the DVD-burner option. Select the bluetooth option.. nevermind, there isn't one. Select the built-in wireless option. Select the firewire option.

When you're done, compare the prices. You'll find the Mac to be cheaper or within about $200 of the Dell, and about 3/4 inch thinner and at least a pound lighter.

I did this the other day, just for fun, because I'm trrying to talk myself out of buying a new $2599 powerbook. The comparison holds for Sony, Fujitsu, Toshiba, everyone I could find with quality machines and a configure option on the web.

Maybe this only applies to laptops? Myself I'm never buying another desktop (nor have I before) but even so it couldn't be that different a story...

Re:Moving beyond Expose, let's talk about Preview.

[Guy Harris]

I'm *really* hoping that they figure out a way to integrate Preview's PDF-rendering abilities into Safari, so that we can finally have a decent plugin to view PDF's inside the browser on OS X!

And I'm really hoping that if they do, they also offer a way to tell Safari not to render PDFs inside the browser - I went through some effort to keep the Acrobat Reader plugin from working on Windows, because, for many PDFs, if it's big enough for me to read, it's too big to fit in a browser window and show the entire page, given all the browser *and* Acrobat Reader toolbars.

Re:then what's the point of having the 5th star?

[Rosyna]

Don't use XP or Win 2k?

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=k b; [LN];329741

http://www.mcpmag.com/newsletter/article.asp?Edi to rialsID=156

Am I Missing Something?

[otterpop378]

Maybe we've all got ourselves wrapped up in our jargon, but last I checked PC stood for Personal Computer, not "windows-based-personal-computer". Macintosh may be a different platform, but still is a personal computer. Just because we have a cult, doesnt make it something entirely different.
--
However, something somewhat unrelated... I installed Panther on my mac at work on friday, and my co-worker approached me, and was watching the progress and he said "so when do you put in the serial #?" and i said "No serial #". And he looked at me funny, and said "How do they know you aren't giving copies to your friends?" So the only response I could get out was "i guess when the users of a product don't hate the company that makes it, the honor system works."

Re:Am I Missing Something?

[Herbmaster]

Macintosh may be a different platform, but still is a personal computer.

...or you could just use the language in the way it's defined, by a de facto standard, the way all natural languages are defined. And you could admit that it was "hackers" who defaced your website while you were eating some tasty "crackers" with cheese.
No one seemed confused at the presidential debate last night when the "Mac or PC" question was asked, insisting that a Mac was a PC too. So yeah, I'd say you're the one missing something.

"i guess when the users of a product don't hate the company that makes it, the honor system works."

I suspect with regard to Windows and product licensing serial numbers / activation, the converse is equally true. ("If the company uses the honor system, the users of its product don't feel like hating the company.")

Re:Am I Missing Something?

[deafgreatdane]

That's because Apple is a hardware company. The only people that can steal their software are the same people who already bought the hardware. And Apple made money from those people already, and will make more money from them the next time they buy a hardware upgrade.

If Apple were to get draconion with product registration, people would be inclined to find a more convenient computing platform, and that would deprive Apple of hardware sales.

As it is, the costs for OS updates are simply a way to keep the initial sticker price of their hardware inline with the wintel world. If OSX was true profit center for Apple, they wouldn't give away 5 license family packs for less than the price of 2 single copies.

And I don't regret any of it: my family has legal licenses of panther on 3 laptops and a G5

Re:Am I Missing Something?

[Alan]

When I got my first mac (a rev a imac to play around with) I found the lack of warez... disturbing. Even the newsgroups couldn't help as they didn't post in the standard uuencode/yenc that something like Pan or agent would recognize. Anyway, I finally discovered that limewire has all the warez you need. Bittorrent seems decent these days as well. Not that you can run much on a 200mhz imac of course :)

Re:BFD

[edalytical]

Most of the time they don't even open the box - they just read what's on the back cover.

Um, ok. Lets imagine you have a job reviewing software. First you wouldn't apply for such a job if you didn't love using computers. In fact you wouldn't get hired if you didn't act enthusiastic during your interview. Now imagine you have a pile of software sent to from various venders-- for free. What are you going to do? Read the boxes, hell no. Your going to play with every piece of software for an hour or more, you might even use it for a week. All the while your going to be thinking, "they actually pay me for this, I sure have the best job in the world."

5 stars Compared to what?

[Andy_R]

If they gave Windows ME 4 and a half stars, then this is the minimum they could give to Panther.

If they gave Windows 2000 Professional 1 star, then 5 for Panther is a an absurdly high rating.

If their ratings are based on this being $129 for an upgrade from 10.$lastversion it's a quite high rating.

If their ratings are based on this being $129 for an upgrade from 9.2.2 it's reasonable.

On it's own, it's fairly meaningless.

Re:5 stars Compared to what?

[molafson]

Software is evaluated in the context in which it's released (time-specific, technology-specific).

For instance, a reviewer in 1992 may well have given OS/2 2.0 a four out of five. If the same package were released today, however, he would be unlikely to do so.

This is why it is specious to compare the release of Windows 2000 to the release of Panther. It's like asking who would win a game between the 1936 and the 1998 Yankees.

Webcams?

[danielsfca2]

> Logitech and Orange Micro are the only ones that support theirs on the Mac

Oh, and Apple. Dumbass.

Re:Webcams?

[danielsfca2]

And I was talking about the fact that third party or not, the iSight is a webcam with support on the Mac, so those two companies were not the only ones who support their webcams on the Mac. Not that I buy that statement anyway, I'm sure there are more, but can't be bothered to look it up since I don't care about such silly things as webcams.

Re:then what's the point of having the 5th star?

[weicco]

Wow! I take my words back. Seems that Mac is not the only bad apple in the tree afterall :)

Aqua issue

[l0wland]

For me it's a 4 out of 5 rating. The single star got lost as I did an update on a 14" iBook2 G3 600Mhz with Mac OS X v10.2.8 on it. After the update, Aqua froze on me. The only way to get rid of it was hitting Command-Option-Esc key-combination, and let Finder do a restart.

But after that, things went smooth. My iBook feels like reborn again !

Re:Aqua issue

[Alcimedes]

hmm, so for each freeze it loses a star....

man, if you'd reviewed Windows98 it'd have been a -78 stars.

Re:Aqua issue

[analog_line]

Never ever update between version numbers. Back off your data and do a complete reinstall. Or, failing that do an archive and install. I've already had to fix several of my clients' machines when they did an update install of Panther that started screwing things up.

Re:Moving beyond Expose, let's talk about Preview.

[1010011010]

I hate the whole "open in browser window" thing. I would much rather have the browser download the file and pass it off to another application with its own GUI.

What the hell are PCs?

[cheezus]

It's obviously moved away from "personal computer". I just generally assume an Intel compatable computer running Microsoft Windows (some might argue that linux runs on a PC... more confusing).

Why are we letting "personal computer" become synonymous with Windows? That's certainly not good for competitors. Why does Apple say the iPod is available for Mac and PC when they really mean Mac, Windows, and anything else you can hack to work with it.

Re:What the hell are PCs?

[Daniel Dvorkin]

It's a historical accident. When the IBM PC came out, everyone just started using "PC" to mean "IBM PC." (In fact, didn't IBM try to trademark the name?) When the clones hit, "IBM-compatible" faded fairly quickly, to be replaced by "PC-compatible" or just "PC" -- which of course meant a machine with an Intel (or compatible) processor running MS-DOS. This usage has survived into the Windows era. I don't like it either, but I suspect it's too late to do anything about it.

Microsoft, of course, has proven far more successful than IBM at taking names that should be generic and turning them into trademarks: Windows, Word, SQL Server, etc. Hell, even "Microsoft" itself is about as generic a name for a software company as I can think of.

Re:What the hell are PCs?

[Visigothe]

Apple actually has a "Mac" version of the iPod and a "Windows" version of the iPod. Nowhere does it state that it is a "PC" version. The specs say that it requires a PC running Windows.

Although, with the latest generation of iPods [dockable], I don't even think they make the distinction between W vs. M.

Just a clarification

Re:What the hell are PCs?

[grrr223]

A lot of the TV, radio, and print iPod ads say "For Mac and PC," that is what the previous poster was referring to.

Re:What the hell are PCs?

[Scrameustache]

I don't like it either, but I suspect it's too late to do anything about it.


Yeah, I mean, I'm typing on a mac in Canada, and I really wish I could say the truthfull "I'm typing on a PC in America" without being misunderstood, but alas, evil prevails and words get twisted.

Re:then what's the point of having the 5th star?

[Paradise Pete]

people resetting their machines in the middle of enabling FileVault

So what happens if I have a power failure?

Re:BFD

[edalytical]

Vender is a variation of vendor. Anyway, thanks for pointing out that I make mundane typos when I haven't slept.

Oh yeah, why not capitalize your sentences?

Re:then what's the point of having the 5th star?

[Paradise Pete]

FileVault is only for laptops, dumbass.

Why would you think that? That's just downright stupid.

Power Failure?

[IAmAMacOSXAddict]

What are you, An Idiot? If the power goes out you computer turns off, and like any other computer, if it is actively writing to the disk they may dammage/destroy data... -- Duh

Re:Power Failure?

[Paradise Pete]

Obviously the file that it's writing could be corrupted, but the existing files that are only being read shouldn't be affected. And in fact, I doubt that it actually does, and I think the assertion that FileVault is causing data loss due to users resetting the computer is incorrect.

Re:Power Failure?

[stripes]

Obviously the file that it's writing could be corrupted, but the existing files that are only being read shouldn't be affected. And in fact, I doubt that it actually does, and I think the assertion that FileVault is causing data loss due to users resetting the computer is incorrect.

The problem is FileVault is intended to work even if you want to encrypt your 15G home directory and your loptop only has a 20G disk. Clearly it has to do some removal of files as it goes.

As far as I can deduce from the warnings FileVault gives you before it starts (and from tales of woe from others) it does not do the smart thing and checkpoint itself. Apparently if you stop it in the middle you lose data (it is unclear wether you lose just a few files, or everything it has "coverted" so far, or "everything"...I susspect that you can actually recover a lot from the not-yet-complete FileVault, but nobody that this has happend to has attempted that yet).

Re:Power Failure?

[Paradise Pete]

Apparently if you stop it in the middle you lose data

I stopped it in the middle by clicking cancel. It instantly stopped. I lost no data, and there was no 'reversal' procedure. Perhaps this is because I had enough free disk space that it didn't have to delete as it progressed, and could wait until the end.
Because it was instantaneous, I don't think that even an abnormal stopping would have cost me any data (though perhaps I'd have had to delete the file it had been constructing.) However, if as you say it deletes as it goes when space is tight, then I think under those circumstances it would be dangerous to use.

Re:My Experience... (not normal)

[IAmAMacOSXAddict]

I'm sorry but your experiance is not normal. I'm using Panther on my G5 and I see my Whole LAN. The windows PCs and the Macs. I'm not sure why it is not working for you...

Re:then what's the point of having the 5th star?

[li99sh79]

So what happens if I have a power failure?

That's what a UPS is for.

-sam

Re:Moving beyond Expose, let's talk about Preview.

[TheRaven64]

I disagree. The find function is nice, but from the most exciting thing about Preview is that it now knows about bookmarks in PDFs, making it very easy to navigate large PDFs quickly. I write a lot using LaTeX (TeXShop is a very nice app for this, by the way) , and regularly deal with documents in the tens or hundreds of pages range. Being able to jump to a specific section quickly makes my life a lot easier. I've always been able to do this with Acrobat Reader, but now I can do so from preview.

Panther problems

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't want to start a holy war here, but what is the deal with you Mac fanatics? I have recently upgraded from a Mac 8600/300 w/64 Megs of RAM to a new G5 dual 2GHz with AGP 8X and PCI-X to help me at my freelance gig where I copy a 17 Meg file from one folder on the hard drive to another folder. On the G5 I spent about 20 minutes trying to install Adobe Arcobat 6. 20 minutes. At home, on my Pentium Pro 200 running NT 4, which by all standards should be a lot slower than this Mac, the same operation would take about 2 minutes. If that.

In addition, during this file transfer, my iPod will not work. And everything else has ground to a halt. Even Safari is straining to keep up as I type this.

I won't bore you with the laundry list of other problems that I've encountered while working on various Macs, but suffice it to say there have been many, not the least of which is I've never seen a Mac that has run faster than its Wintel counterpart, despite the Macs' faster chip architecture. My 486/66 with 8MB of ram running MS Windows for Workgroups 3.11 is faster than this G5 dual 2GHz machine at times. From a productivity standpoint, I don't get how people can claim that the Macintosh is a superior machine.

Mac addicts, flame me if you'd like, but I'd rather hear some intelligent reasons why anyone would choose to use a Mac over other faster, cheaper, more stable systems.

Re:Panther problems

[Rimbo]

Well, for one thing, I haven't had the problems you've had.

For another, I'm a code-geek. Roughly half of what I do, I do in /bin/bash and emacs.

And last, when I plug my camera in, when I go to a new wireless spot, when I close the lid with the machine still on to go to sleep, the shit just works. Every time.

Re:Panther problems

[all your mwbassguy a]

if macs suck so much, why did you buy a top-of-the-line g5? seems like you would have learned by now. in fact, why are you using it to write this article? a 486 can load slashdot just as easily.

Re:Panther problems

[j33px0r]

20 minutes to install Adobe? What's the problem?

1. Insert CD (open warez folder)
2. Go get refill on drink
3. Go back and click yes/accept/yaddayadda
4. Go to bathroom (wash your hands too!)
5. Check logs on linux box for giggles
6. Come back and hit finish.

This could take up 20 minutes easily.

But i think you might want to check if you don't have a configuration error. Also, I have had problems with Itunes and your ipod might have similar software issues. Its a silly flame to compare your uberMac to a 486.

Re:Moving beyond Expose, let's talk about Preview.

[cosmo7]

An OS X PDF renderer in Safari would be better than the Acrobat plug-in. Cocoa uses PDF natively, in NSPDFImageReps. You can render PDF as easily as you can render JPEG (ie: very easily).

Not that this would interpret the PDF streams inside the document; that would be less trivial.

Re:then what's the point of having the 5th star?

[jweatherley]

Should have bought a UPS then ;). Seriously Apple are marketing filevault as a means of securing data on laptops and not hiding your mp3/divx/pr0n/Al Qaeda Plots collection from the feds.

Laptops are more vulnerable to casual theft and may well have confidential data on them - MI5 had a rash of stolen laptops a year or so ago - so encryption there makes a lot of sense. Of course a laptop with a fully charged battery has it's own UPS which is nice.

Re:then what's the point of having the 5th star?

[BigGerman]

VMS!
Control-C (or was Control-Y?) always worked!!!

mac zealot or mac zionist...

[ErnstKompressor]

"timewarp"..."subsidize my private jew"?...

I don't want to know what you're doing with a private jew...I just hope you're treating him nicely...;)

Re:Lack of Serailization

[Johnny Mozzarella]

That is one of my favorite features. Apple is one of the few companies I don't mind giving my money too. I always come away feeling like I got the better deal. I don't know how many Windows users can say the same thing. Expose is worth every penny.

Re:then what's the point of having the 5th star?

[zpok]

Remember, you only enable Filevault once.
And if you have to encrypt xxGB of data, that'll take time.

So the problem is not something that can turn up any time there's a powerfailure, but only when you're in the middle of "enabling" filevault.

(and as was pointed out rather tactfully by others, it is primarily designed for laptops with batteries)

Cheers,

Re:then what's the point of having the 5th star?

[zpok]

When you shout, you do get loud, but it doesn't augment the quality of the argument.

Please take note. It is a very handy feature for laptop owners, but it's not ONLY for laptops. The Fucking Documentation doesn't say that at all.

There are a LOT of instances where you'd want to use Filevault on a desktop.

Re:then what's the point of having the 5th star?

[cellocgw]

(posts on file corruption if power lost when FileVault running)
Big Deal. Here is an example of what Win2k does. I've repeated this bug. Open a couple apps, like Word or Powerpoint or something. Open up a few documents in those apps and edit them. Don't hit "Save." Go to ctrl-alt-delete and select Shut Down. The OS sends a quit command to the apps, and the apps throw up the "Save Changes?" dialog window. The problem is: the OS doesn't wait for the apps to quit. If I don't get to the "Save" buttons fast enough, the old "This application isnot responding" window shows up. It's difficult if not impossible at this point to save all edited docs before the OS shuts down or kills the application process prematurely. This is bad; Every MacOS since 6 properly waits for all apps to quit before continuing the shutdown process.

Re:Moving beyond Expose, let's talk about Preview.

[edbarrett]

Firebird 0.7:

Tools -> Options -> Downloads

Click Plugins... button

uncheck the items you don't want registered plugins to handle. I love this browser!

Re:Moving beyond Expose, let's talk about Preview.

[shotfeel]

I agree. However the down side of doing this is I end up with a folder full of PDFs with cryptic names, most of which I'll never look at again. I just wish the file didn't get saved unless I told the viewing app to save it.

Yesterday was my first day of switching

[AssFace]

I have long hated Macs but as of yesterday, I now own a 15" alum Powerbook.

I absolutely love this thing and while I still am an admin on a Windows network here at work, I think I am done with Windows on my own.
I have increasing problems with Windows and having increasingly fewer reasons to hate Macs.
As of OS X 10.3 and Xcode, I now have very few reasons to dislike it.

The only few gripes that I have right now are:
1) The aluminum keyboard feels like dragging my nails on a chalkboard if my nails (esp thumb) hit the hey instead of flesh.

2) The integrated Google search doesn't have buttons that let me search directly to images and/or discussions, and when the search comes up, there aren't buttons of the words that I just searched for allowing me to search within that document.

3) Many web pages totally break using Safari - I am going to debug one page that I use all of the time and send the fixes (JavaScript) to the person that maintains it since it is sommething I use daily when analyzing stock charts (well, nightly).

4) The resolution on this laptop isn't so great - but the screen does look fantastic.

5) I'm not sure that my backlit keyboard works. It is turned on and no matter what changes I make via F9/F10, I still see no backlighting. Not a huge deal, but still a gripe.

6) I have yet to figure out where the graphical FTP client is - so far I am largely just treating this like a Linux laptop and using a lot lof command line stuff.

7) I wish Komodo 2.5 was ported to Mac OS X 10.3 - I really like the way that it deals with Perl.

8) The trackpad is not responsive - it is almost like accelaration is turned on, but I didn't see anything that would indicate that in any mouse menu.

9) The single mouse button works if you press in the center, but not if you get it off to one side - which is usually where my thumb is (perhaps out of habit).

10) I'm still getting used to the kepay layout for shortcuts - fortunately my misstrokes have yet to do anyuthing harmful.

11) The spell checking thing doesn't let you bring up a quick selection of the word/words that it suggests - innstead you have to open the full spell window and then it wants to continue on - I miss the ability in Windows to right click and the first few words on that menu were the suggested words and you could just choose one and move on.

12) The iChat thing isn't as configurable as I had hoped. I hear there is another thing out there, I will test it out in a bit.

But the things I LOVE are:

1) Its weight - this thing is so light and thin. The battery is tiny and WOW 4+ hours on a charge.

2) The wireless is fast and VERY easy to setup (no real setup, just turn it on).

4) Mail app - this thing is great. Nice looking and all the features I want. I love it.

5) Snappy! Everything is quick on it.

6) Feels very stable.

7) FreeBSD command line - nuff said there.

8) Xcode is cool.

There is a ton that I have yet to figure out yet, but I really like it so far.

I am going to try to get OpenOffice on here and Xemacs and then I think I should be all set after I try to bring over my documents from my pc laptop.

I am also going to benchmark this laptop against my other one and my stateside server to see how it performs - initially will just be running Perl scripts that I use a lot.
My previous laptop was an Athlon 4 (the mobile chip) 1G, and the server is an Athlon XP 2200+.

The laptop gets warmer than I had hoped - just to the edge of comfort, if not just over - but it doesn't melt any part of it like my pc laptop is doing now (its heatsink fan is broken - hence why I got a new laptop, will then take my time to fix that one).

Anyway - I love it - any suggestions from old pro Mac users would be highly welcome as I look for cool new things for my new shiny toy.

Re:Yesterday was my first day of switching

[Jeppe Utzon]

Wrt. your backlit keyboard not working - you need to be in a dark room, i.e. with the lights turned off. Then the keyboard will light up automatically and F9/F10 will work. :)

Re:Yesterday was my first day of switching

[pknoll]

6) I have yet to figure out where the graphical FTP client is

If you click on a URL that leads to an FTP site, Panther opens a new Finder window with the FTP site mounted like a network drive.

You can also cause this to occur by using Command-K in the Finder and entering the FTP URL in the resulting dialog.

Re:Yesterday was my first day of switching

[AssFace]

I thought my room last night was dark enough, but perhaps not.

I will try it in a darker room this evening.

Where is the sensor that detects the light? Under one of the speaker grilles?

Re:Yesterday was my first day of switching

[AssFace]

I have twice tried to download Fink after reading that it seems to be very useful in getting a lot of the tools I want (Xemacs immediately comes to mind).
It keeps timing out - my work connection is quite slow - I will try it again tonight at home where my connection is faster.

I haven't seen VersionTracker yet - I will check that out. I know that FreshMeat.net has an OS X section, so I've been looking through there.

I like to play hearts a lot, so that will be my next thing to look for (free program). If I can't find one, perhaps that will be my "Hello World" app for the Mac.

Thanks for the tips - none of my friends are Mac people, or the ones that are aren't ever online, so it is hard for me to know where to find things (since I don't even necessarily know what I'm looking for).

Will Finder allow me to download and upload files? All via drag and drop? If so, that sounds quite nice.
I recall there was a program called "Fetch" back on older Mac systems and so I was looking for that.

Re:Yesterday was my first day of switching

[Jeppe Utzon]

Yeah, I think so. At least I can fool my 15" into turning on the backlight when i cover the speakergrills - but you need to cover them both to fool it.

Re:Yesterday was my first day of switching

[AssFace]

yup, that did it!

I didn't realize that the letters themselves were little windows.

Nifty. (not sure I've used that word before)

Re:Yesterday was my first day of switching

[Jeppe Utzon]

If you're new to Mac OS X, there's some tools you should check out. Personally I can't live without LaunchBar. Give it a spin for a few days and life will never be the same again. Let me know if you want any other recommendations. ;) Oh, check out Little Snitch too. It is for blocking outgoing traffic from, say, an app that tried to dial home. For ftp there's Interarchy, Fetch, Transmit, cuteFTP to name a few. Don't think a graphical ftp client comes included with Panther but I've been wrong before. heh

Re:Yesterday was my first day of switching

[KH]

2) The integrated Google search doesn't have buttons that let me search directly to images and/or discussions, and when the search comes up, there aren't buttons of the words that I just searched for allowing me to search within that document.

I don't know if this answers your question, but if you cmd+F, (or choose Find... from the menu), the words you searched for Google is in the Find dialogue. It can be annoying because those words show up in other Cocoa apps' Find dialogues, but can be useful.

As a workaround for google search only going to regular search when I actually want to look for images, etc., I would just click one of the tabs on top of the Google result page. I would also often cmd+return to open the google results in another tab in Safari.

BTW, did you know that many emacs key-bindings work in Cocoa text edit fields? Like the one in Safari?

11) The spell checking thing doesn't let you bring up a quick selection of the word/words that it suggests - innstead you have to open the full spell window and then it wants to continue on - I miss the ability in Windows to right click and the first few words on that menu were the suggested words and you could just choose one and move on.

If the spellchecker suggests that a word is misspelled with dotted red underline, (like the "innstead" above), you can ctrl+click on it, and it will show contextual menu with suggestions, etc. You can right click to do the same thing if you have more than one button mouse.

In addition, when you are not sure about the word you want to spell, you can option+esc to see candidates of the word you started spelling. Nifty feature added in Panther.

7) FreeBSD command line - nuff said there.

I noted that many commands are now replaced with GNU tools or other popular open source alternatives, eg., more is less, vi is vim, sh is bash... Not that those are huge losses because I would use less instead of more, vim for vi anyway. Still, I kind of liked the fact that I had real spartan vi and real sh from BSD up to OS X 10.2.

Re:Yesterday was my first day of switching

[AssFace]

ahh - thanks! It sounds like the spell checking does do what I want, I just couldn't figure it out.
Excellent.

Re:Yesterday was my first day of switching

[Amiasian]

Also, that option (alt) - escape hint can also be accomplished by using F5 for autocompletion.

It's intelligent, too. For example, say my paper includes the text "Slashdot". It's not in my system's dictionary. But if I were to type Sla + F5, it would suggest "Slashdot" as the first completion item.

Re:Yesterday was my first day of switching

[Erik K. Veland]

Welcome to the mac-world! You will enjoy it :)

The only few gripes that I have right now are: 1) The aluminum keyboard feels like dragging my nails on a chalkboard if my nails (esp thumb) hit the hey instead of flesh.

Cut your nails ;) I have long nails and so does my girlfriend. We have not had this kind of trouble on our PowerBook 17".

2) The integrated Google search doesn't have buttons that let me search directly to images and/or discussions, and when the search comes up, there aren't buttons of the words that I just searched for allowing me to search within that document.

That _would_ be a cool feature in Safari. Send it to Apple, they listen. Meanwhile Ambrosia has a cool utility called iSeek that does exactly what you want, but puts the search in the menu bar.

3) Many web pages totally break using Safari - I am going to debug one page that I use all of the time and send the fixes (JavaScript) to the person that maintains it since it is sommething I use daily when analyzing stock charts (well, nightly).

As I'm sure you know, it is up to the developer to create webpages that adhere to standards, not Microsoftisms. Dave Hyatt, who is a standards and perfection nut is one of the developers on Safari. He has a web blog discussing Safari here.

4) The resolution on this laptop isn't so great - but the screen does look fantastic.

It could be better, but most users are not used to user elements being tiny. Until resolution-independent interfaces are developed, I think the resolution is just right for the display size (17" and 1440x900 for me). This is all in my humble opinion of course ;)

5) I'm not sure that my backlit keyboard works. It is turned on and no matter what changes I make via F9/F10, I still see no backlighting. Not a huge deal, but still a gripe.

As people have mentioned. It need to be dark for it to kick in. There are two sensors, one below each grill.

6) I have yet to figure out where the graphical FTP client is - so far I am largely just treating this like a Linux laptop and using a lot lof command line stuff.

The FTP is integrated in Finder. Use connect to server (cmd-K) and type and FTP-adress. Upload and passworded servers do not work. This is done for two reasons, one is to not alienate 3rd party developers (I use Fetch myself), and the second is security. Apple is focused on security these days, and sending clear-text passwords isn't very secure :)

8) The trackpad is not responsive - it is almost like accelaration is turned on, but I didn't see anything that would indicate that in any mouse menu.

Acceleration is always on, because that is the Apple Way. Mac Users love it, PC-users shouldn't have a great difficulty adjusting to it since it's makes sense. Set the speed to full if you want it to be closer to Windows' hyper-active mousing ;)

10) I'm still getting used to the kepay layout for shortcuts - fortunately my misstrokes have yet to do anyuthing harmful.

I'm sure you will find that the cmd-combination is much easier on your hands as you can reach more keys without straining your wrist. Also most shortcuts are consistent across applications on the mac platform, another bonus.

11) The spell checking thing doesn't let you bring up a quick selection of the word/words that it suggests - innstead you have to open the full spell window and then it wants to continue on - I miss the ability in Windows to right click and the first few words on that menu were the suggested words and you could just choose one and move on.

I don't see how you m

Re:Yesterday was my first day of switching

[AssFace]

Wow! Thanks so much for the informative response.

I should have clarified that the gripes I had with the Mac were not necessarily the fault of the Mac and very likely my fault for not adjusting yet - nonetheless, they were the gripes that I had/have.

I am aware that the web page issue is not Mac's fault, and is instead due to the fact that each browser responds slightly differently (I know they each swear to their own standards and *the* standard - but from my own experiences I understand where they are coming from.

Whoa... I just noticed that this thing allows Emacs navigation in this text box - I think someone else in this thread already said this.

I am so in love with this thing.

I feel so wrong for liking this since I've hated Macs for so long :)
(to be fair, I still can't stand the old style ones - they have come a long way and this is a nearly perfect system in my eyes so far).

I have been using Aquisition as the p2p tool, I will look at the other stuff.
I never watch movies on my laptops, so I will likely not need to worry about the DivX thing for a bit.

Thanks so much for the tips - I'm slowly learning where things are on this, and the new keyboard short cuts are starting to make sense.
I tend to hit the "fn" key instead of the "ctrl" key a lot - that is annoying - hopefully I can adjust soon.

Re:Yesterday was my first day of switching

[Erik K. Veland]

Yeah, any cocoa-app supports emacs-bindings by default.

Oh, I don't use the laptop to view the movies. I connect it to the TV (with included S-video) and watch them there.

To quickly make it recognize the TV, press cmd-F2. Use presentation mode in QuickTime (cmd-shift-f) or switch video device in VLC. Or just hit F7 and turn on mirror mode (you might want to change resolutions depending on wether you use NTSC or PAL).

Best of luck with your new mac. I added you to my friends-list here. :-)

Re:Yesterday was my first day of switching

[Permission Denied]

6) I have yet to figure out where the graphical FTP client is

In Finder, Go -> Connect to Server, type in ftp://some.site.tld/path

Read-only, which is probably a good thing since password is sent clear-text.

Re:Yesterday was my first day of switching

[Alpha_Geek]

Welcome to the club :)
I just recently bought a 12" PB and I'm loving it.

6) I have yet to figure out where the graphical FTP client is - so far I am largely just treating this like a Linux laptop and using a lot lof command line stuff.

Fetch is no longer included in the OS, and its not free. You can find freeware clients at Version Tracker. I've never found a need for a graphical client, since I use ftp so rarely.

Also check out Fugu. Its a graphical SFTP, SCP and SSH tunneling client. Its also under a BSD style license :)

8) The trackpad is not responsive - it is almost like accelaration is turned on, but I didn't see anything that would indicate that in any mouse menu.

This is less of a problem in Panther than it was in Jaguar, but the fastest speed is still too slow for some. There is a nice little freeware PrefPane wigit called MouseZoom that will let you increase the acceleration number above the max that the Keyboard & Mouse PrefPane will.

11) The spell checking thing doesn't let you bring up a quick selection of the word/words that it suggests - innstead you have to open the full spell window and then it wants to continue on - I miss the ability in Windows to right click and the first few words on that menu were the suggested words and you could just choose one and move on.

My advice: Invest in a Microsoft Bluetooth Mouse. Right clicking does bring up a list of suggested words (command-click has the same effect). The sweetest thing about the MS bluetooth mouse is that it has 5 buttons, so you can map Expose functions to the two thumb buttons. Having a scroll wheel is also something that I can't live without. Its also very nice to not have to plug in anything to use an external mouse.

Hope you find some of this useful.

Re:Moving beyond Expose, let's talk about Preview.

[Guy Harris]

An OS X PDF renderer in Safari would be better than the Acrobat plug-in.

In some ways, yes. At least for me, however, it'd be worse than just showing the document in Preview - and, in the area about which I complained, namely the space taken up by the browser and PDF view toolbars not being available to show me the page I'm viewing, no better than the Acrobat plugin. (Yes, I know Cocoa uses PDF natively. That's presumably how Preview displays it.)

Re:Moving beyond Expose, let's talk about Preview.

[King Babar]

I disagree. The find function is nice, but the most exciting thing about Preview is that it now knows about bookmarks in PDFs, making it very easy to navigate large PDFs quickly.

You're obviously some kind of pathetic geek. :-) More seriously, that *is* very nice, but I should point out that some of the TeX documents I tried playing with turned out to be unsearchable by Safari; is this possibly caused by the fact that they were created in an odd fashion (didn't use pdflatex or something?). Is there something special you should do with your LaTeX to make sure it "plays nice" with more advanced PDF readers?

You must get yourself an MS Bluetooth mouse...

[ErnstKompressor]

It is as if it were designed for the newest AlPBs. No drivers even...just set it up in 'sys prefs' and assign the 3,4 and 5 buttons to expose...really sweet.

Re:You must get yourself an MS Bluetooth mouse...

[AssFace]

Oh, the extra buttons sound nice if you can map them to things.
That would work if 1) I could get the mouse - I live in Bermuda and it is hard to find things here (will look when I get into the States for Thanksgiving), and 2) if I didn't actually have the laptop on my lap most of the time.

At work though I do have a desktop surface that the laptop is on, so perhaps the mouse would work there. I like the idea of the laptop just because it is all self contained (and so light!).

Is the resolution on the Bluetooth mouse good? In the past (over 2 years ago) when I used a wireless mouse the resolution on them was not so good - and since I was doing graphics at the time, that was no good for me - likely doesn't matter now since I don't do much in the way of graphics any more.

What's the big deal?

[Acidic_Diarrhea]

What's so surprising? That a magazine has journalistic integrity and actually gives an honest opinion (with disregard to what side of their bread is buttered on) OR that Jaguar has become so Windows-like that it now satisfies those users who are most happy with Windows? The latter doesn't bode well for Apple.

Re:Moving beyond Expose, let's talk about Preview.

[jaoswald]

I just wish the file didn't get saved unless I told the viewing app to save it.

I actually have more trouble with the opposite scenario: the .PDF opens in Acrobat, for good viewing, but "save" is disabled.

So, either I have to

1) remember to "save target to disk" instead of just clicking

2) root through my cache (where the f*ck is it kept, again?) for a cryptically named file.

3) go back and do number (1) because I forgot, causing a second, equally long, completely redundant download.

Re:Moving beyond Expose, let's talk about Preview.

[GlassHeart]

I hate the whole "open in browser window" thing. I would much rather have the browser download the file and pass it off to another application with its own GUI.

You probably don't hate it as much as you say you do. Do you want your browser to display plain text externally? How about gzipped HTML files? I'm guessing you'd want these displayed by the browser.

I think what is more important is how well the interaction model for the particular document type fits with the browser's. PDFs are jarring because "Back" and "Forward" doesn't work as expected in them. However, if properly integrated you may not mind it as much.

I agree with Jeppe...

[phillymjs]

Get LaunchBar, you won't regret it. I now keep a minimum of things in my dock for the purposes of launching them, but everything's still just a couple keystrokes away no matter how deeply it's buried in subdirectories.

~Philly

Re:then what's the point of having the 5th star?

[drsmithy]

If I don't get to the "Save" buttons fast enough, the old "This application isnot responding" window shows up. It's difficult if not impossible at this point to save all edited docs before the OS shuts down or kills the application process prematurely.

No, it's easy. Either hit Cancel on that dialog (and any others), return to your applications and save or switch to your application while the dialog is open and use the save dialog - the application should close once the save dialog is dismissed.

If Windows is killing applications waiting to save without your intervention, then you've changed the default behaviour.

I got Panther, but I'm such a loser!

[csoto]

Yeah, I read all about Expose and stuff, but it wasn't until tonight that I actually started using it (bought Panther the Monday after it was released). Talk about an eye-opener. I thought it was over-hyped, but I have to tell you, it's cool. This, plus the other interface enhancements seem well thought out and actually make it easier to use. The new Finder windows are a bit confusing at first (even more Nextish, if you can believe that), but ultimately, it's better. Good for Apple to continue to break with the past, provided the new way is actually the better way.

Panther rocks! Can't wait to get a G5 though :)

Re:Moving beyond Expose, let's talk about Preview.

[TheRaven64]

You're obviously some kind of pathetic geek.

Probably...

Is there something special you should do with your LaTeX to make sure it "plays nice" with more advanced PDF readers?

If your problem is with plain text searches, then make sure you have ligatures (where pairs of letters like fl are run together in a single character) turned off. If you are just not getting the table of contents in the bookmarks window, then the most likely cause is that you haven't used the hyperref package, which creates these automatically.

How to disable it in Mozilla?

[sulli]

I HATE the Acrobat Reader plugin. It is painfully slow for Mozilla, and the Stop button doesn't work. Many is the time I have mistakenly clicked on a pdf link and wasted minutes waiting for the damn thing to render.

Re:then what's the point of having the 5th star?

[cellocgw]

>>If I don't get to the "Save" buttons fast enough, the old "This application isnot responding" window shows up. It's difficult if not impossible at this point to save all edited docs before the OS shuts down or kills the application process prematurely.

>No, it's easy. Either hit Cancel on that dialog (and any others), return to your applications and save or switch to your application while the dialog is open and use the save dialog - the application should close once the save dialog is dismissed.

You're missing the whole point: the user shouldn't have to play that sort of game. The OS should have the "smarts" to make sure apps are done before deciding to force-quit them (which will happen if the user in this scenario doesn't stop the shutdown process).
As to the default behavior: I haven't changed a thing, and don't even have admin privs.

Re:then what's the point of having the 5th star?

[drsmithy]

You're missing the whole point: the user shouldn't have to play that sort of game. The OS should have the "smarts" to make sure apps are done before deciding to force-quit them (which will happen if the user in this scenario doesn't stop the shutdown process).

No, it won't. I've left systems sitting with that "This application is not responding" dialog for _days_ without anything being killed. You are complaining about non-standard behaviour.

The OS has the "smarts" - that's the whole point of the dialog box.

As to the default behavior: I haven't changed a thing, and don't even have admin privs.

Well, someone has. Windows doesn't start killing non-responding applications automatically by default.

Big Endian/Little Endian

[Cybertect]

The reason that is a potential incompatibility is that Motorola-based systems traditionally use big endian addressing, and x86-based hardware uses little-endian addressing.

I'm not a hardware wiz, but Interestingly Apple's Developer Docs suggest that PCI-Based PowerMacs can deal with both on the PCI bus (mixed endian support), but apparently some manufacturersstill seem to have trouble with this