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All-in-Wonder 9600 Pro Review
VL writes "From synthetic, to real-world game benchmarks. TV capture, DVD playback, and 2D/3D image quality... we covered all the bases with a review of All in Wonder 9600 Pro."
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Aren't there a million sites out there that do hardware reviews? Or is it a slow newsday?
~S
AIW has been a nice low cost video swiss army knife. If I weren't so happy with my ATI Radeon 9000 (and ATI's support of it with drivers!) I would get one of these.
How is linux support for this beast ?
Will it do decent GL ?
Do they test the linux drivers, or is this another one of those "there exists only one platform, and it's name is 3DMark"-reviews?
Belief is the currency of delusion.
Strange, this "timing" lark. I wonder if they struggle to meet the deadline or just let thngs hang around until the public start buying in earnest for Xmas...
:-)
Since it supports 2 monitors (prime requirement for me) I might even buy one... be nice to actually enable 3D to more than "minimal" for a change
Simon.
Physicists get Hadrons!
Are the Windows XP drivers up to snuff with this release? Previous All in Wonder drivers have sucked and have been unreliable for programattic access. I had to switch last year to another capture card manufacturer. Clif Blogzine.net Fortress of Insanity
clifgriffin > blog
So you thought you'd submit a story to Slashdot to get some visitors to your site. Well done. Yes, it's a cheap way to get some publicity for a vaguely tech related site. But didn't it occur to you to ensure it could survive the slashdotting before you submitted the story?
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
Why get the 9600 with quad piping when you can the 9700 with the 8x piping.
What's so special about this review?
For those of us with DVI LCDs is there a good 3D card which supports dual DVIs? I have two Iiyama DVI 19" LCDs and my current card (GeForce4 Ti 4600) only supports one DVI and one VGA (so one display is perfect and the other noticeably less so). This (yuck!) only supports dual VGA!!!
I've been looking but I can't find a flavor of Radeon or GeForce that supports dual DVI. With the latest fantastico-new games (like Deus Ex2, Half-Life 2, Doom 3, etc.) being released in the near-term I'd really like to upgrade (replace) my older PC - I'd like to get dual DVI out and superb gaming performance/graphics (so it would have to be on par with the 9600's etc.).
Any ideas/help?
Thanks,
--
Matt
I think the card is great and has a ton of functionability. But when the time came for me to buy a PVR card, I had to skip on this one in favor of the hauppauge wintv pvr 350 PCI card and a seperate video card solution.
I had to do this dasterdly deed due to the current state of linux driver support (ie lacking). Is anyone developing drivers for this or is ATI creating a too fast of moving target. Does anyone have any alternative solutions?
Victory is gained, not in knowing your opponents next move, but in preempting them.
Bít, zabít, jen proto, ze su liska!
Is it a review of a card, or a review of a review? If the site weren't slashdotted, I could tell...
Orange whip? Orange whip? Three orange whips.
From Matrox's website Matrox Millennium G550 Dual-DVI Matrox has always been a great competitor in the 2D desktop... dual-head technology is strictly Windows based for this card though.
(1st sig) If this were a snappy sig, you'd be reading it right now. (2nd sig) I'm a karma whore. >Insert FUD here
My capture board of choice..
I'm currently on my 3rd AIW ATI card. Good bang for the buck and darn good perfomance.
I've used other boards like Osprey but ATI's gear always seems to do it better, and tends to have better bundled software and 3rd party support.
Up until recently, The Mach chipset in older AIW's was 'ok' for gaming. But I wasnt much into gaming. I preferred em for capturing.
But now.. They have a great cap card AND gaming card!
I'd say ATI today, is what Voodoo was a few years ago..
http://www.siimage.com/documents/SiI-WP-001-A.pd f
but it will probably take about two years to gain any serious market penetration. Even superior technology needs time to gain acceptance; look at the fact that SATA drives still arent prevalent as a good example, in spite of being clearly superior. In fact, it wouldnt be hard at all to make a drive that is both ATA and SATA, just like it wouldnt be hard to make a CRT that is both VGA and DVI.
Manipulate the moderator system! Mod someone as "overrated" today.
Well, if the "drivers are a little too involved to set up" then that's certainly something the review should mention!
This isn't all about games either, this isn't a hardcore gaming card, this is a "wide" product meant to be an overall decent graphics card for desktop and games. You have the PVR features for instance. Are those supported on any other OSen than Windows? If yes, out of the box or does it require third party drivers and/or software, will the remote function with these? If it's not supported, why? How does that compare to the competition, etc, etc.
A review that doesn't even touch on these issues are all but useless. Zero information, seeing how there's a million of these reviews already.
Belief is the currency of delusion.
"A Dremel is something these users will need to keep handy. Remember, the Dremel is for the SFF case, and not to lop off the FM-Tuner."
I'm surprised he rated the card so well, considering case modifications are required to make it fit in the SFF case. Your average gamer/PC user will not want to go through the hassle of cutting part of the case to make it fit. They'll probably just return it if they can't make it fit immediately.
http://www20.tomshardware.com/graphic/20031107/in
Of course a link is helpful.
http://www.xgitech.com/
Benchmarks look promising.
Conclusion
The Volari Duo V8 Ultra leaves us with a very mixed first impression. Despite the prototype status of our sample and its driver, the card was able to produce some very respectable results in some areas. These highlights are clouded by the problems with texture filtering and the stark performance drop-offs in some benchmarks and games.
XGI's driver team definitely has its work cut out for it. We can expect to see final boards with shipping status and WHQL drivers within the next one or two months, or so. That gives XGI's driver programmers a bit of time to iron out the kinks.
Should they be successful, XGI's cards may well become serious alternatives to ATi's and NVIDIA's offerings, especially considering their comparatively low prices. XGI is aiming for a street price of about $449 (plus tax), which is rather inexpensive. This makes XGI's top model a good $50 less expensive than the flagship models of NVIDIA or ATi. As far as the other versions of the cards are concerned, XGI has so far declined to comment.
Damn it, where's my HDTV support?????
ATI All-In-Wonder 9600 Pro: Like the AIW 9800 Pro, this mainstream offering supports DX9 and has some great A/V capabilities. It also has a couple of unique features that separates itself from the rest of the AIW line.
Date: November 21, 2003
Manufacturer: ATI
Written By: Hubert Wong
Price: $205 USD
The All-In-Wonder series have been a great success for ATI. Recently, they've been coupling some great TV-Tuning functionality with a modern VPU. This is a far cry from early All-In-Wonders (AIW) where the VPU was based on a handicapped version of their fastest card.
Another smart decision was releasing different variants of the AIW cards, each targeting a different market segment. The AIW VE was aimed at the budget market, where potential users may not have an AGP slot available. This AIW lacked a remote, and used a two year old VPU, but it was priced very low, and the multimedia aspect matched the top-end AIW 9700 Pro (now discontinued in favour of the faster 9800 Pro VPU). The AIW 9000 was another mainstream part, but supported DirectX 8.1 gaming. This card suffered something of "middle child syndrome" and didn't seem to get as much fanfare as the other AIW parts. The AIW 9800 Pro is ATI's current top dog, matching their quality multimedia features with their most modern VPU (until the XT came out).
Though the VPUs (and hence, the price) differed, what all three cards had in common was the TV-Tuner and the Theater 200 Video Processing Engine (VPE). Another thing they had in common, was the inability to output to dual CRT monitors. Considering that multimedia authors live and die with multi-displays, this was quite an omission in the AIW series. Today, we'll be looking at the AIW 9600 Pro, which has everything current AIWs have, and includes DirectX 9 support, Theater 200, FM-Radio (a new feature), and the previously MIA dual CRT display support.
Specifications
You can grab ATI's full specifications from their page, but I thought it would be good to outline a few important features.
TV-ON-DEMAND: Exactly as it sounds. With the AIW 9600 Pro, you can record your favorite programs, and pause live TV (playing it back whenever you want) directly on to your hard drive. The Gemstar GUIDE Plus+ is a software and web based application that works much like a TiVO's TV guide.
FM-ON-DEMAND: New to the AIW series is the AIW 9600 Pro's ability to listen to and record live radio. This works by attaching an antenna to the IO panel on the card. Unfortunently, this antenna isn't included, and you'll need to pick up your own.
THRUVIEW: Like other AIW cards, you can view TV through a translucent overlay on your desktop. This will allow you to work on your primary window, while still being able to watch TV. In theory, this sounds great, but I found it too distracting to use in a practical environment.
Remote Wonder: A fully wireless remote, that works by radio frequency, rather than infrared. That means the signal will pass through most walls found in homes, and at a range of about 30 feet. We reviewed it here, so check that review for our full thoughts.
EAZYLOOK: Also known as the "10 foot interface". An issue with past ATI TV-Tuning based setups was the interface was too small to read on an actual television set. Add the typically low resolution of TVs, and you can see the problems. EAZYLOOK uses a much friendlier and simplified menu, and the font size is much larger, making it easier to use.
MulTView: This is a feature that will enable dual TV tuner capabilities including Picture-in-Picture and independent channel surfing. Want to watch one channel, while recording another? You couldn't do it before, but now you can, so long as you have an additional ATI TV Wonder. Hopefully, this is something ATI can integrate into one card in the future.
DirectX 9: The AIW 9600 Pro offers full DX9 support.
The ATI All-In-Wonder 9600 Pro
Unlike earlier ATI products, the shipping boxes are squarer now, as opposed to
I have the TV Wonder VE, which is essentially the TV tuner part of this card (well it turns out to be more complicated than that, but for argument's sake).
The applications for watching and recording TV shows suck. Real bad. I have the latest version from their website too.
The best program I encountered was Snapstream, and it works with the card reviewed in this article. But it uses ACCESS and Jet to store tv shows, and can you guess what happened 3x before my trial period was over? That's right, corrupt database.
One further note, these cards will NOT work with Myth TV, the linux option. The TV Wonder series does work with Myth, though.
I overwhelm as I approach you
Make your lungs hold breath inside!
Lovers break caresses for me
Love enhanced when I've gone by.
You'll feel me coming,
A new vibration
From afar you'll see me
I'm a sensation.
They worship me and all I touch
Hazy eyed they catch my glance,
Pleasant shudders shake their senses
My warm momentum throws their stance.
I leave a trail of rooted people
Mesmerised by just the sight,
The few I touch are now disciples
Love as One I Am the Light...
Soon you'll see me, can't you feel me
I'm coming...
Send your troubles dancing he knows the answer
I'm coming...
I'm a sensation.
I've had enough abrasive sigs. Kittens are cute and fuzzy.
I've had an AIW 9800 pro in my system for a while now. 9600 seems a few steps behind.
Isnt it Most Oddest that this card was released a MONTH ago.. and with it 3 similar Reviews?? how is this news?
The More Knowledge you have the Luckier you Get- J.R. Ewing
I had an AllinWonder Pro way back in the day. Used it to sample in some digital video and back up some of my VHS tapes to HD. Drivers sucked. When I got Windows 2000, it totally broke. Since then, I've avoided the whole thing by getting a digital camera with USB drivers. Much more flexible anyways, and you can plug in external sources into the dv camera and I'm back where I was with the AllinWonder.
So here's my video card suggestion: Forget the 9600 AiW and go straight to a 9800 non-pro version. According to Tom's hardware, 20-30% performance difference over the 9600 graphically. Finally, do NOT get the Pro, XT, or SE versions of the 9800 unless you are a hardcore gamer. I was able to get a Radeon 9800/128 meg version for $185 on EBay!
The lower clock speed of the 9800 vs 9800 Pro affects performance minimally, but you can also overclock the regular 9800 to have Pro-like speeds, from what I hear.
Tom's hardware also indicated VIRTUALLY NO PERFORMANCE DIFFERENCE between the 128 and 256 meg RAM versions of the RaDeon 9800 Pro card.
----
Basically, the extra RAM, fluff features ATI puts on their cards is for the kiddies. If you want to buy in, go for it. Otherwise, be smart, take advantage of the core technology by getting the 9800 -- you'll get all the performance and save $200. Save your money for dedicated, portable peripherals.
Why do hardware reviews only test the hardware out under Windows? Are there any hardware review sites that review hardware under Linux? Just because a piece of hardware performs nicely or efficiently under Windows doesn't mean the same applies under Linux.
Things are Linux oriented hardware review should cover:
1. Linux based synthetic benchmarks
2. Benchmarks under popular Linux games
3. OSS drivers (yes/no)
4. Linux support (yes/no)
Try a SapphireTech Radeon 9200 VIVO. It's maybe $60.
-- I wanna decide who lives and who dies - Crow T. Robot, MST3K
Right up front we're making a comprimise on price, budgeting I have done my some research (that site, among others, seemed the most helpful) and I'm leaning toward the Asus V9250 or an MSI FX5200. Do keep in mind that this will be a Windows machine, as the guy is decidedly non-computer technicalish.
So sure, this is slightly off-topic - don't feel obligated to respond or moderate. If you do happen to have a good suggestion as to the best video card value under one hundred bucks, please chime in. Thanks.
does anyone else here have one of these cards? how do you use it?
I want 2D games back.
DScaler
A good Media player that I like is Core Media Player. But media players are getting to be a dime a dozen. Video Lan Client isn't too bad.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
I got a Radeon 9500 (the variant built on a 9700 PBC) and re-enabled all the disabled features. Instant 9700pro+ after overclocking. Better than a 9600 and cheaper too.
hacked drivers @ http://www.ocfaq.com/softmod/download.php
of course it doesnt do tv capture
- i'm still waiting to be able to use the PCI AIW card ATI released this time last year... - i was quite naive in assuming ATI cared about the Linux market, and bought the card... it works fine as a video card, but AIW? TV capture/viewing? nope! - PC hardware manufacturers should heed a warning: Don't ignore your current and potential future market. Do support Linux, or you may find that your company has developed an unsavory reputation along with way... - i cannot recommend ATI as a "Linux savvy" manufacturer
Okaaaaaay....so...
"Fool me once, shame on you"
"Fool me twice, shame on me"
How gullible to you have to be to fall for ATI's cr@p three times in a row?
Sorry, just couldn't resist. It's been one of those days.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
That was a great suggestion back when the 9500 Pro was still in production. Problem is, people figured that out, and that (along with the stop of production) drove up prices. Then there's the little problem of the stock 9500 Pro being faster than the stock 9600 Pro in most benchmarks. Back in mid-April, Anandtech said "The Radeon 9600 Pro is the perfect example of bigger numbers not necessarily meaning higher performance; as we noted in our overview of the RV350's technology, the Radeon 9600 Pro is actually more like a regular Radeon 9500 than a Radeon 9500 Pro."
Currently, the cheapest 9500 Pro 128MB lists at $199 on pricewatch... only $10 cheaper than the cheapest AIW 9600 Pro 128MB. If you found the 9500 for $99 recently, or bought it back before the prices rose, consider yourself one of the lucky ones.
Look for the 64MB ones. Allstarmicro.com had 'em a couple weeks ago for $56.
The 64MB one has DVI and analog video, the 128MB version is analog only.
They work beautifully. The biggest difference between a VIVO and an AIW is the tuner. If you have sattelite or digital cable or something, you aren't using the tuner anyway, you're using Svideo or composite, which the VIVO supports perfectly. The other difference is that the AIW cards have audio inputs. The fix for this is a $3.29 stereo-RCA-to-mini-headphone adaptor from Radio Shack. You were planning to use your sound card's line-in for something else?
The 9200 uses the old Rage Theater chip found in the AIW 7500 and 8500DV (and for that matter, the ATI Rage Pro VIVO and AIW), not the Theater 200 found in the 9600, 9700, or 9800. Newer versions of MMC have a little bit of extra functionality with the updated chip - basically engaging the vidcap chip for some readtime processing on your input, for cleaning up noise and so forth. I prefer to do that sort of thing after the fact, when I have more control and the source video on-hand for comparison.
If you aren't interested in 3D, and you don't need the tuner - and to be honest, the tuner in your VCR is better anyway - the 9200 VIVO is a bargain.
-- I wanna decide who lives and who dies - Crow T. Robot, MST3K
I've got a 9800pro aiw, and I'm pretty happy. I also have a 8500 aiw and a rage 128 aiw. The biggest deal with AIW cards is that if you have digital cable, you mainly use it as a video in card (atleast we do, the extra HBOs, HistInt, IFC etc are digital here). Older versions of the MFC software were pretty screwy, but the latest versions (since summer/fall 03 or so) have been pretty good.
I haven't done much research into using AIW cards on linux boxes, but will be trying soon once we build a linux server from my wife's old computer parts and my old computer parts. Is there a way to use an AIW tuner card to capture mpeg2 vids under linux CLI? Eventually, I'd like to control it via a web interface from any comp in the house. Or is there a good tv tuner card that works well with linux and is controllable via cli?
I've got a pcHDTV card and have done some transport stream captures in Linux. I've tried playing them back on a friend's Shuttle XPC (running Linux) with an Athlon XP2400+ and GeForceFX 5200. NVidia's drivers do support XvMC (motion compensation) on this card, and Xine is able to take advantage of it. But I'm still not 100% thrilled with the performance. There's some slight judder/jitter, mostly noticable in smooth pans, and that's with everything scaled to 1280 pixels wide. If I try to run the display at 1920 pixels wide, it seems to stress the fill rate or in any case cause it to get much choppier.
Supposedly GeForce4 MX cards might actually have better XvMC support, but I haven't verified this. For this specific purpose I think the general advice is that the GF4MX cards are better than GF4Ti models.
Not that Windows HD cards and drivers are apparently much better. I've seen complaints from at least one Windows HTPC user that he's not happy with playback there either.
So a bunch of us are watching the Roku HD1000 unit very closely. This is a set-top box based around the ATI Xilleon chip -- a MIPS core surrounded by specialized graphics hardware, including full HDTV MPEG decoding.
Best of all, it runs Linux. An initial SDK (gcc toolchain) is due out in the next week or so. There are Roku folks hanging out in the main Roku thread at avsforum, and have been answering questions and taking suggestions. They also just set up a mailing list of their own for technical discussions.
As soon as the product was announced there were a bunch of us who immediately thought of using this as a transport stream player, and although the initial firmware does not do that, they have already released two beta versions in the last few weeks developing this as a feature. Apparently their developers also have HD capture cards and have an interest in making this work :-)