Slashdot Mirror
Anti-Frostidigitation: Heatpipe Gloves
Hettinga writes "A little casemod couture this morning, courtesy of Hongbin Ma, a professor of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering at the University of Missouri. He has developed heatpipe-driven gloves which pump therms from your toasty upper arm down to those aforementioned frosty digits. 'Each glove contains five small heat pipes, one for each finger, that are about 14 inches long and 1 mm x 2 mm in the cross section. Each pipe consists of three sections: an evaporating section, which is attached to the upper arm area; an adiabatic section, which is between the finger area and the arm area; and the condensing section, which is attached to the finger area.' Coming soon to a half-pipe near you..."
I just woke up from this really bizarre dream... tell me: does CowboyNeal really live in a pink house?
Hand....pumping....14 inches.....this sounds so familliar.
Anti-FP-ulation, you heard it here first!!!
I'll take two.
Ride recklessly only when safe to do so.
nature didn't provide us with some kind of fluid that automatically circulates throughout our body to distribute warmth and nutrients.
Here is how a heat pipe works
A. Heat is absorbed in the evaporating section.
B. Fluid boils to vapor phase.
C. Heat is released from the upper part of cylinder to the environment; vapor condenses to liquid phase.
D. Liquid returns by gravity to the lower part of cylinder (evaporating section).
now my upper arms are cold.
is that his next project?
I could use some of these gloves for Anti-Burnination!
Life is the leading cause of death in America.
That sounds like an idea that could equally apply to those with lower circulation, not just those on the slopes / in the cold.
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The web server seems to be slowing down for the time being. As per section 604(b) of the Fair Use Code, I am entitled to post the full text, unedited, of the article here.
As snow, sleet, freezing rain and frigid Arctic air grip much of the nation, many people will spend dangerous amounts of time outside, shoveling snow, scraping ice or sledding. The chilling atmosphere can have a damaging effect on individuals. As the body attempts to conserve energy, it shuts off heat to the hands, fingers and toes, dropping the temperature to these extremities by 40 degrees F, thus making them susceptible to frostbite. A researcher at the University of Missouri-Columbia and W.L. Gore and Associates are developing a new glove containing flexible heat pipes that will solve this dangerous problem.
"This new glove will be lighter, thinner, warmer and more comfortable than anything on the market today," said Hongbin Ma, assistant professor of mechanical and aerospace engineering, who started on the project a year ago and recently completed a prototype of the glove. "We simply use the body heat from the upper arm to warm up the fingers during the wintertime."
Each glove, which will be made of polyester, contains five small heat pipes, one for each finger, that are about 14 inches long and 1 mm x 2 mm in the cross section. Each pipe consists of three sections: an evaporating section, which is attached to the upper arm area; an adiabatic section, which is between the finger area and the arm area; and the condensing section, which is attached to the finger area.
According to Ma, the heat is transferred to fluid in the glove through direct contact between the heat pipes and the individual's arm. The fluid, in turn, is vaporized and the vapors bring heat to the fingers. The vapor is then condensed back into the fluid, which flows back to the arm section through a wick structure embedded in the heat pipe. In this way, Ma says, the heat will continuously be transported from the arm to the finger.
"The heat transport is dependent on the temperature difference," Ma said. "When the temperature difference between the arm and fingers is higher, like it is during the winter, the heat transport capability will increase. When the temperature difference is low, such as when someone comes in from outside, the glove will automatically adjust the heat transfer capability."
Ma, who also is developing the same device for shoes, is the founder of MU's Research Consortium for Innovative Thermal Management, which develops novel low-cost cooling technologies and delivers the research results directly to the industry. The consortium is the first of its kind in the United States to focus on heat pipes and phase-changing cooling devices.
Sincerely,
Seth Finklestein
I'm not Seth Finkelstein. I still speak the truth.
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Whose hands always get stuck to their wang.
(Because it's cold.)
(You see, let me explain this whole "tongue on frozen metal to you" thing. See, the joke works this way, son...)
You could just carry your super overclocked PC around with your to keep your hands warm.
If you wore these long enough in cold weather (-20C or less) would you risk decreasing your core temperature to critical levels?
Ride recklessly only when safe to do so.
I wonder if those gloves can keep my mouse from shaking so much. I assumed it was due to the A/C being so dang low in my cube.
If it were metal as in normal heatpipes you couldn't bend your fingers...
My fingers stiffen up and I can't type very well in chilly air. I'm rated at 73 WPM at standard room temperature. Imagine the productivity boost with these babies on! At least 5-10 WPM for sure!
This will negate the very positive Darwinian influence on our gene pool WRT "People who are too fscking stupid to come in out of the cold." ;-)
Of course, he's got a lab to try this stuff in and I don't.
Scientists restrict study to entire physical universe; creationist
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4. profit!
Sounds neat and all, but they've already shown that maintaining a certain temp in your torso area will help keep those extremities warm. I'd think it would use heatpads on your chest.
Damon,
http://actionPlant.com
He has developed heatpipe-driven gloves which pump therms from your toasty upper arm down to those aforementioned frosty digits.
If he has 'developed' these gloves, I would like to see a picture of them. It looks like these are just as 'developed' as those night-vision contacts over at Popular Science.
heat pipe-driven pants, and we'll be set!
Or we could just make gloves out of Aerogel.
The city is being overrun by a herd of Lucy Liu's.
10000 digits of pi.
3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993 75 1058209749445923078164062862
08998628034825342117 067982148086513282306647093844 6095505822317253594081284811
17450284102701938521 105559644622948954930381964428 8109756659334461284756482337
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Now my upper arms will be cold.
Make heatpipe socks first! Gloves can wait, My feet haven't had good circulation since I learned my first Regular Expression!
Just as irrigation is the lifeblood of the Southwest, lifeblood is the soup of cannibals. -- Jack Handy
I thought heat-pipes were driven by the pressure differential that results from gravity. The lower end of the pipe (wrt gravity) is the high pressure partition of the vapor-compression cycle and therefore is the evaporator or the part of the system that absorbes heat. The upper end is the condensor which release heat. Therefore for this system to work you would need to keep you hands above your head all the time.
Each glove contains five small heat pipes, one for each finger, that are about 14 inches long and 1 mm x 2 mm in the cross section.
The Goatse guy could easily keep his hands (and arms) warm with....
Btw, what fate hath befallen him? There is no more Goatse.cx Guy!!
What shall slashdot do without the Icon of Perpetual Gags?
do() || do_not();
But a while back Discovery had a mini series about extreme survival, and one of the shows was about artic survival. The main character, so to speak, tried on an electrical vest of sort, which heated his torso. This allowed him to stay in a -40(I think) degree windtunnel with I think 5 mph winds for more than three hours without losing any dexterity in his fingers.
When the guy who supervised the dexterity and mental acuity test took of his gloves, it took less than three minutes for his hands to be freezing cold, while the infrared camera clearly showed that the main characters fingers were still warm.
Seemed fairly conclusive to me, that the trick was keeping the torso heated, as that would prevent the problems, these gloves are supposed to fix.
Besides - if you can have warm dextorous fingers without wearing gloves, I'd go for that any day of the week, as long as I'm not working with objects, that can hurt my hands.
We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
By Jeff Neu
New gloves developed by MU researcher protect hands and fingers in winter conditions.
As snow, sleet, freezing rain and frigid Arctic air grip much of the nation, many people will spend dangerous amounts of time outside, shoveling snow, scraping ice or sledding. The chilling atmosphere can have a damaging effect on individuals. As the body attempts to conserve energy, it shuts off heat to the hands, fingers and toes, dropping the temperature to these extremities by 40 degrees F, thus making them susceptible to frostbite. A researcher at the University of Missouri-Columbia and W.L. Gore and Associates are developing a new glove containing flexible heat pipes that will solve this dangerous problem.
"This new glove will be lighter, thinner, warmer and more comfortable than anything on the market today," said Hongbin Ma, assistant professor of mechanical and aerospace engineering, who started on the project a year ago and recently completed a prototype of the glove. "We simply use the body heat from the upper arm to warm up the fingers during the wintertime."
Each glove, which will be made of polyester, contains five small heat pipes, one for each finger, that are about 14 inches long and 1 mm x 2 mm in the cross section. Each pipe consists of three sections: an evaporating section, which is attached to the upper arm area; an adiabatic section, which is between the finger area and the arm area; and the condensing section, which is attached to the finger area.
According to Ma, the heat is transferred to fluid in the glove through direct contact between the heat pipes and the individual's arm. The fluid, in turn, is vaporized and the vapors bring heat to the fingers. The vapor is then condensed back into the fluid, which flows back to the arm section through a wick structure embedded in the heat pipe. In this way, Ma says, the heat will continuously be transported from the arm to the finger.
"The heat transport is dependent on the temperature difference," Ma said. "When the temperature difference between the arm and fingers is higher, like it is during the winter, the heat transport capability will increase. When the temperature difference is low, such as when someone comes in from outside, the glove will automatically adjust the heat transfer capability."
Ma, who also is developing the same device for shoes, is the founder of MU's Research Consortium for Innovative Thermal Management, which develops novel low-cost cooling technologies and delivers the research results directly to the industry. The consortium is the first of its kind in the United States to focus on heat pipes and phase-changing cooling devices.
i would find it quite hard to skateboard with this on
Sounds like a good idea for those stuck in frozen conditions. cant wait to try it out on my next mountain climbing expedition.
sorry officer, left my sig in my other computer.
Instead of just reshuffling your body heat around with high-tech gloves (and, presumably, making your fingers warmer at the expense of your arms), why not just pop in some of those 99 cent hand warmers you can get at places like Costco? We've used these everywhere from the ski slopes to watching the countdown on New Year's. They're cheap, disposable, and widely available.
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You're an idiot.
This is the internet. People put web pages up so that other people can see them. What slashdot does is no different than what happens to parking at a popular concert. Most of the time, sure, there is plenty of parking. Not during the concert, though.
"DOS" implies intent. Slashdot is merely linking.
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There is no more Goatse.cx Guy!! What shall slashdot do without the Icon of Perpetual Gags?
You have all these choices. Hint: drop the "se".
Your body cuts off the blood to extremities as a defense against the cold. Won't these gloves render that defense useless?
I see lots of "The Jerk" type lawsuits in this guy's future...
And you have a stillsuit! Ok, better make sure the "fluid" mentioned in the article isn't poisonous.
my GF is a Raynaud's sufferer and if she get's her hands in anything cold it can stop the circulation in her fingers and feet. causing frostbite even in warmer temperatures like 40degF.
this would make life for a Raynaud's afflicted person much easier on day's like today when it's 6degF outside and expected to be -1 later tonight.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I'ts currently below freezing in most of Missouri, troll.
This reminds me of the work suits the First Hundred used in Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars trilogy
Not quite complete spacesuits, but enough to keep you alive and working while on the surface of the red planet. They included a lattice of warming wires beneath a flexible exterior.
Next up: harvesting bodily fluids with a suit.
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That reason is: It is better to lose a finger than a lung.
Don't be stupid... keep your body warm first.
42 - So long and thanks for all the fish.
...a beowulf cluster of these.
Dear sir,
Enclosed with this letter is a copy of the book 'Starship Troopers' by Robert A. Hienlien, and a check made out in the ammount of 150 million dollars. Please read the enclosed book and begin work upon Powered Combat armor as soon as possible. We would like the Test Type suit ready within 3 years, and a functional suit within 5. My associates and I will be along to pick up 10 working copies of the suits, fully armed, on the 22nd of January, 2009.
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"Qua!?"
It's actually better to keep your torso warm.
The draining of blood and heat from your hands and feet happens when your core temperature starts dropping. This is done to protect the vital organs, heart, liver etc over the non-vital, hands, feet. If you can keep your core temperature normal you can actually work without gloves even below zero (celsius). This because the body is warm and needn't cut the heatloss from hands or feet.
There was a good documentary on the Discovery channel about the very subject not long ago.
So, while heatpumping gloves seem nice, I'd go with keeping my body warm and be rid of any gloves hindering my hands.
Yeah, bring on the puns..
you herd me, i sed ram a cawk up my bash!
Nope. Heatpipes use a fluid and working pressure such that the fluid is almost-boiling at the optimum operating temperature. Heat one end, and the fluid boils, vapor diffuses rapidly to the other end, condenses giving up heat of vaporization, and is absorbed into the wick that runs through the pipe. It then goes back to the other end by capillary action.
That said, it IS more efficient if the bottom end is the "hot" end, 'cause the rising warm fluid vapor and the down-flowing condensed fluid are both assisted by gravity. However, gravity is NOT an essential part of the process (some satellite instruments use heatpipes to keep-em cool in free-fall, for example).
A friend of mine does heat pipes as a business: koolpipes.com
"My strength is as the strength of ten men, for I am wired to the eyeballs on espresso."
that are about 14 inches long and 1 mm x 2 mm in the cross section.
It's mixing units like that, that causes rovers to crash.
And of course a simpsons quote to go with it:
"My car gets forty rods to the hogshead, and that's the way I like it!"
Biking!
Without gloves, biking for longer than 30 seconds is painful many winter months. My commute (in western Illinois, less than an hour from Missouri) is only 2 miles, and I wear Thinsulate gloves, and my hands are STILL cold when I get to work.
Personally, I'd like to see a heat pump that moved heat from the small of my back (well insulated by a pack full of books and student papers) to my hands, nose, and ears!
cbd.
... where's my stilsuit? Gonna be a hot one!
--
make install -not war
While Missouri may be 'south' in a general sense they do get cold weather. Enough to warrant the usual coats, hats and gloves thing that those who live further north (Chicago, Boston, Bangor, etc) use every winter.
In fact, the majority of Tennessee is further south than the entire state of Missouri is and they regularly get snow storms and cold weather.
Your attitude reminds me of a roommate I had in college who was from New Hampshire. No matter how cold it was in RI (where I finished school) or my home state (a bit further south) it was always 'warm' to him because New Hampshire winters were colder.
Just because 20 above is warmer than 20 below doesn't make it warm.
Wouldn't the genital region be more appropriate (albeit somewhat less convenient) for this sort of thing? It's designed to keep the "stuff of life" at a healthy 98F. Just have the heatpipe fitted into one's pants with one end nestled against the vital organs and the other woven into pants pockets. Imagine that... a whole new life for the phrase "pocket pool".
Un-news
These would be useful for biking in temperatures colder that -20C with wind which is where mine seem to stop working. After -20 I begin to lose feeling in my fingers from the pinky inwards at a rate of 1 finger /~2C
The gloves that are warm enough are too thick to be good for biking. I wonder what the thickness of these would be.
The reason your hands get cold and numb isn't because they are actually so cold (umm sort of; bear with me); its because your core temperature drops and your thermal maintenance systems shut down blood flow to the extremities. Loss of blood flow in the hands results in the numbness and loss of dexterity.
:)
If you wear a heated vest (or even just keep a charcoal-burning hand warmer in a chest pocket (nice and low tech)) your hands don't get all cold and numb; they stay dexterous and warm. And without *any* gloves at all.
Ok so *serious* below zero temperatures will still result in skin loss if you *touch* something...
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
neat idea, moving the heat that way. here's another application of the same notion. (which i haven't yet seen) they should make a jacket/gloves that warms from a motorcycle cylendar head.
if anyone's ridden a motorbike in cold weather, you know what i mean. something that took the heat from the cylendar head would be a gem.. at 70 mph wind chill in 20 degree weather, nothing from your armpit's gonna help those fingers. many's the day i've ridden one handed in that kind of weather, holding my left hand to the engine block.
"Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us." -Jesus Christ The Lord's Prayer
are you a fucking nutcase
If you are that stupid, you won't use the gloves anyhow.
Lasers Controlled Games!
That would probably depend on how much abuse the heat pipes could take...
Yes, but, as you were dying of hypothermia, you would at least be able to use your mobile phone to call for help. Or call the manufacturer of these gloves and ask for your money back.
Mod parent up!
If its one thing we slashdotters have seen time and time again, its that nature can be improved upon. I mean, kidney stones and colon cancer are but two examples of someone in the design department sleeping at the wheel!
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
Anyone who has spent time in extremely cold conditions can attest to the desire for warm gloves. The body just doesn't "do enough" to protect the extremities (at least at first - I find my fingers get so cold that I'm in severe pain, and then suddenly they warm up. There's probably some medical explanation for this - anyone?).
An interesting solution I heard about was conductive textiles - fabrics that act as heating elements (i.e. they're not simply a wire - wires break easily and consume a lot of current). These were apparently used for astronauts gloves. I haven't been able to find civilian gloves using this technology, despite the potential these seem to have for things like skiing and motorcycle riding.
The basic key to keeping your extremities warm is to keep your core body warm so that the blood circulation doesn't get reduced in your extremeties. The problem is - if you are doing anything active in cold weather - skiing, mountaineering, running, etc - you end up having to dress more lightly simply because otherwise you overheat and become sweat soaked and exhausted. Result shortly thereafter: hypothermia.
So that's why these, and the conductive textile gloves are interesting ideas; you can keep you fingers and toes warm without having to overdress. The big question though is - are they reliable? Will your decision to use the batteries that happened to be in your roomie's TV remote control cost you your fingers?
When am I going to get my Stillsuit
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Well since they are polyester I imagine that they are only for walking around.
These gloves should be made with gortex and should be marketed to people that work in the harsh cold and snow.
Unless you actually need all 5 fingers, gloves are really kind'a dumb. Mittens (and yes, people make cool mittens now), are much much warmer then gloves since your fingers are lumped together. Anyone that's lived in cold weather, or is an avid snow rider will tell you that.
These why spend money on expensive Nintendo Power Gloves when you could pick up a pair of trendy mittens for fraction of the price?
"Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
Only if the other garments you were wearing were inadequate for the task of maintaining your body temp despite the extra heat loss to your hands.
:)
But if you're wearing these gloves, but aren't otherwise wearing clothes appropriate to -20, then yeah, you might get hypothermia.
On the other hand, hyperthermia is unlikely to be a problem caused by these gloves in -20C weather.
The enemies of Democracy are
There is a reason that the body restricts blood to the extremities in extreme cold. It's probably better to get a bit of frostbite than hypothermia. Frostbite may cost you a few fingers, but hypothermia makes you confused and uncoordinated, until eventually you lay down in the snow to sleep (and die).
These gloves may be thinner lighter and warmer than gortex gloves, but goretex you can take off when you have to do delicate work (starting a fire) and you can put your hands in your armpits if they get too cold. These gloves require you to take off your coat and shirt and any fleecy layers you may be wearing when it is time to put them back on.
You can have these gloves. I'll keep wiping my nose with my wool mittens.
More music, fewer hits
With these gloves, you'll probably always be the loser in a snowball fight because before you can throw a ball you probably melted all the snow around you.
Or imagine your kids forming a snowman and you want to help them. I guess there will be a lot of crying when it melts right in your hands.
For use when we go to Mars. :)
You are funny... Missouri is technically south of many states, but it is not 'south' by definition. It is more Midwest (if that is even applicable anymore).
Anyway, St. Louis can be known for some pretty nasty weather. The worst part is the weather changes. Right now it is 2PM and about 26F. In a few days, it will be in the mid-50's around this time of day. It is tough to get used to the cold when it goes from 70 to 30 to 55 to 20 to 60 to 0 in a given winter month.
Your comment really makes no sense... I could see Florida or SoCal but Missouri is very cold sometimes, it is like these gloves being developed in Ohio or Pennsylvania. (Look at the jet stream and temps on a map of the US, you will find that it dips far south in the middle of the country.)
Great... now my upper arms are cold.
Which bring up the question: WHY do your hands get cold, when you have a perfectly good heat-transfer medium built in?
Answer: Evolutionarily, when your environment gets cold it's important to maintain the temperature of your brain and core body organs, to keep you alive. When those are in jepoardy, your body may sacrifice heating, first of your hands and feet, then of your arms and legs, and risk damaging them, as a better tradeoff than risking DYING, or brain or organ damage, from hypothermia.
It's possible that in some current situations the tradeoff setpoint is no longer correct or appropriate, and the for some people (for instance, with circulatory system damage) the heat transfer is impaired and needs suplementation.
But I'd bet that, at least for for normal healthy people under about age 35, the setpoint IS right, and use of these devices might provide comfort at the cost of significantly raising risk to health.
So I'd avoid them in favor of high-quality insulting clothing, to keep me warm enough that my body isn't tempted to start conserving heat by courting frostbite.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Do you, think you used, enough commas,?
I guess you could say these gloves really give you the cold shoulder.
Thanks for the info. That clears up so many things! I must have missed that at some point during my education, which included working in a low temperature physics lab.
Lasers Controlled Games!
The south? Checked a map lately?
A lot of readers seem to be missing the point here. The real advantage of this prototype is that it's passive - no batteries, no chemical reactions, nothing. It keeps your fingers warmer by absorbing some heat from your body (that would eventually have ended up in the air) and transferring the heat to your fingertips.
So yes, hand warmers are cheap and effective, but they'll die after a few hours once the reaction finishes.
Keeping your core temp high is a nice idea, but let's say you already have a nice coat and things - I think having some gloves that would passively heat my fingers would be nicely appreciated. Their was a post about how if it's a matter of life-or-death, you should maintain your core temp, but I think the more realistic application of these gloves would be to maintain comfort of your digits when you know you're going to be outside.
Again, the system is passive - no batteries, no chemical reactions, nothing at all. You'd put them on and forget about it.
Our body was designed quite smartly to conserve heat when the temperature drops. Circulation decreases to those parts of the body that are not necessarily important for immediate survival (a.k.a your fingers, toes, tip of your nose, and other protruding misc!) This ensures the maximum amount of heat for places that really need it - your core (a.k.a heart and lungs.) If you are pumping heat from your upper arm to your fingers you may actually be working against your body's own natural defenses.
rootsmith Inc.
I live in Edmonton, Canada. As such, I have to regard phrases like "even below zero (celsius)" with some amusement. Keeping your core warm certainly does help the extremities, but is not a full solution. Walking to school, I remember many times when my hands/ears/feet were freezing while I was sweating inside a huge coat.
I think this likely varies in different people, temperature, wind, activity, etc.. There's lots of situations where I would have been happy to move heat from arm to hand, and when my core was perfectly toasty.
Let's not stir that bag of worms...
-- oldy but goody
Can we somehow make Heat Pipes to transfer heat from a place we don't want it (CPU) to a place we do (outside of our box)? Something tells me the heat of the CPU would probably melt these little pipes though.
This would be useful in business after shaking hands around in a meeting with the cold souls for corporate America.
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
No, I didn't RTFA, but if these things are thin enough to let me type, while wearing them, then I'm buying a pair as a present for my wife.
I'll never have to hear, "AAAAAAUUUUGHHH!!!! COLD HANDS!!!!!" again.
That's "Mr. Soulless Automaton" to you, Bub.
Notice these things don't actually exist yet....
Well, not exactly, but this one has no moving parts: Aerogel Clothing. Can't seem to find any prices for any of this stuff ;-)
Stand back. I've got a brain and I'm not afraid to use it.
I know those heated gloves that we motorcyclists wear on our bikes are plugged in, and these heat-pipe gloves have no energy source other than our bodies, but it seems like a large step in technology for a little bit of gain. For those people who are out in the cold for such a long time that they have to fight frostbite, can't they have battery-powered heated gloves or something like that?
You're another simpleton... it's okay if it's for your benefit. Just like pollution and poor wages for service personnel. As long as you get your chai fix and the latest in "news" important to losers, you don't care.
And stop with the scat wishes.
H4nk K1n65l3y
I was recently up in Vermont on a snowboard trip during the onset of the Northeast's current coldspell, and man, it was (and still is) COLD. The low temperature for the weekend I was up there was about -25 degrees Farenheit. Being out on the mountain with the "windchill" it felt about -55. When the group finally made it back to NJ it was about 20 degrees outside and we all rejoiced! However, adjusting back to NJ's normal temps came rather quickly....
The interesting thing (to me) is the development of flexible heat pipes. I'm assuming that it uses tubes stuffed with something with great capillary action, maybe CoolMax fabric or something. Don't know if it really needs to be aligned all that well- would probably work better if it were, of course. Either that, or just extrude the tubes with a lot of fins inside for good capillary action. Further developments would be to fabricate a material/plastic with really fine vanes in it, sew it into a bladder shape and fill it with fluid (remembering to seal the seams- this is the GoreTex company that's also working on this). Either way, I'd be worried about fluid loss or bursting of the flexible heat pipes or the resivours at the ends.
And can you imnagine seeing a snowboarder/skier/whoever with these opera-length gloves on? Either they'd need to get capri-style sleeves on their jackets or learn to put the gloves on before putting the jacket. I can just see the new 1/2 sleeve fashion now- and the convertible jackets with zip-off forearms.
Never mind trying to take the gloves off to reach into a pocket or something. How many people here pull their gloves off with their teeth especially when reaching for something quickly? (especially since the other hand is probably already otherwise occupied) Try that with a glove that covers your forearm.
a fight? An animal with cold extremities but a functioning brain, heart, and large muscle groups, or an animal with relatively warm extremities, but a brain and heart that are suffering from the effects of hypothermia (in other words, dizzy, listless, etc.)?
Remember that the brain and heart are much more susceptible to changes in temperature than the skeletal muscle, ligaments, and skin of your hands. Both brain and cardiac tissue require large amounts of oxygen, and a relatively high temperature to function at peak efficiency. The more likely reason that we evolved this is because the bigger threat was often other organisms, not the weather.
Quick, adapt this thing to underpants and we can do away with 'shrinkage'!
These gloves work by shifting some of the heat from more core parts of your body to your extremities.
So, your body notices the core temperature dropping and says "Crikey! Better shut off those extremities even more."
So, aren't these gloves self defeating? And possibly dangerous because they will lower your core temp while simultaneously reducing the options your body has to naturally fight that drop.
Tuus crepidae innexilis sunt.
Alaska Bugs Sweat Gold Nuggets
Intresting thought. :)
But oddly skewed. My mother and brother moving to missouri caused me to hear for the first time that schools had been closed due to wind chill factor. Of about something in the order of 50 below zero, can't have the kiddies turning into popsicles while waiting for the bus in the morning.
Also my mother showed me pictures of a couple ice storms they've been through. I'll take 18 inches of snow over a 1/2 inch thick sheet of ice covering everything thank you very much.
I dare say that people really could find this useful in missouri, and many other places,.. NJ being one of them this winter. Brrrrr!
This sorta reminds me of 180's Exhale Heating System in their gloves. Has anyone used these gloves before? How are they? Seems like such a simple idea that would definitely be nice if it works.
Trolls lurk everywhere. Mod them down.
Now, we get those shoes with the crystalline soles that generate a little electricity every time you flex them and...
You know, I think writing this burned out more brain cells than I realized ;-)
You're acting like that the gloves actually steal heat from the peoples' arms! Think about the principle here, people. Your upper arms are giving off that heat whether they've got these pipes covering them or not. All that heatpipes do are to take the heat that's already left the upper arms and move that heat downward.
That's like shoving branches into a mulcher, taking them away from the pile at the end, burning them, then saying that your branch pile is getting too small. It's waste! Or, an even better example would be regenerative braking on newer hybrid cars.
Guys, It's -34 degress celsius outside right now. I have poor circulation(it's actually a major problem for playing guitar, cause I have to warm my hands up a lot to get going). I also have to walk everywhere(or take the bus when available, actually). Do you know what I do? I put on some regular, big, warm mittens. And guess what? Every is alright then!!! Jesus christ. If people ever buy a product like this, ever, I'm going to start selling shit-on-a-stick. Cause, I'll know for certain that people will buy anything.
Yikes ! People will start to loose whole arms to frostbite instead of just fingers.
And as it happens, in -20 weather I actually seem to prefer my basic rain jacket which has a very solid well-constructed hood over my thick down jacket which has a sewed on headcover. So in short: yeah, I basically do choose earmuffs over my coat.
Ten for the fingers, ten for the toes, and one for somewhere else.
any argument making frequent use of the term 'mitten' is intrinsically hilarious.
I would actually say these gloves are MORE useful in moderate cold than in arctic climates. If it is 10 or 20 deg F outside you will loose some dexterity in your fingers from the cold, but with a decent coat etc you won't freeze to death any time soon under normal circumstances. Decreasing circulation to your hands doesn't help in any appreciable way. When it is -60 deg F though, these gloves may do more harm than good (as so many others already pointed out) by counteracting your body's homeostasis system.
All these guys need to do is to extend the tubes ... and add some sort of water pump ...
down a couple more feet
maybe a deoderizer wouldn't be out of place either.
Leading to the Singularity. A geek who isn't transhumanistic just hasn't heard of it.
-Libertarian secular transhumanist
Heatpipes, indeed.
Canada or Quebec
Contrary to a minority of Quebecer's wishes, Quebec is still part of Canada. You didn't really need to mention both.
Random and weird software I've written.
Hands also get cold because they have a much higher surface area to volume ratio than your torso and hence lose heat faster. Because of this your hands might be cold even when you are sweating if the outside temp is cold enough. Circulation in your hands also depends on oxygen need, so if the muscles in you hands aren't doing much work, there won't be as much blood flow to them and they can get cold even when the rest of the body is doing fine. To see this, just clench and unclench your fist repeatedly when your hands start getting cold, and they should start feeling warmer. The work itself will also warm the hands somewhat. Some people have poor circulation all the time from smoking, injury, or other reasons and will get cold hands even in temperate weather.
In other words, peripheral vaso constriction as a mechanism to protect the core body temp is just one of several reasons why your hands might be cold, and so the relatively small amount heat lost by these gloves is unlikely to increase the risk of severe hypothermia for most people in most common situations.
In what sense is Missouri in the south? I'm from Missorui (although I now live in Seattle), we get snow in Missouri. Even in Springfield, MO where I'm from. St. Louis, Kansas City, and other more northern parts of the state get lots of snow in the winter.
Heck, they even get snow in north Texas from time to time.
Missouri wasn't even part of the confederacy (some state leaders had a confederate Missouri government in exile, but the the state official sided with the union - at gunpoint). Its not south.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
Ok anglo, thanks for the heads up!
...Is anyone else thinking "precursor to the stillsuit"?
...Now if we can just develop an integrated waste recycling mechanism...
Apologies to Frank Herbert, but what we're getting at here is talking about a self-contained aerogel/heatpipe system meant to regulate the body for extended periods of time with nothing to power it except for the human body.
>Contrary to a minority of Quebecer's wishes
(cough), a difference of only 50,000 Quebecers is a really, really, really, big minority. As in, what it takes to get Bush elected type of minority. Had I hindsight, myself and 49,999 Canadians would have found it worth their time to move there for a short while to get them the hell outta Canada.
If Canada were the US we'd be rid of that annoying wart. Doctor, bust out the Compound U already!
Mix those facts in with a liberal splash of our once second-in-command party being a group intent on breaking Quebec from Canada along with Bill 101 outlawing English Free Speech in Quebec public schools (a RIGHT guaranteed to ALL CANADIANS by the charter) and I, for one, after that, refer to Quebec as a separate country also. I mean, WTF do they keep that "I will remember the time you damn British beat us" license plate motto for? Because they prefer to use "tough love"?
Fuck 'em, eh? Most Quebecers are assholes, and I fairly judge that by the fact they keep electing a separatist majority government for themselves, over, and over, and over again.
Oh, and for those who aren't convinced, how about this? Only *TOTAL* assholes try to turn a known burial ground into a golf course. At least the original inhabitants of Canada have better manners.
We don't need them, and they DEFINATELY don't want us.
[It was worth the karma]
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
For $1USD I can buy a four pack of thoes chemical hand warmer things that last 7.5 hours each. Why would I want to buy really expensive gloves that won't keep me nearly as confortable.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
[OT, it feels kinda gross to actually use a smiley...]
If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
Naw, I think it is highly localized. If you've ever kept your hands in a freezer too long, your your hands go numb and weak without a (significant) change in your core temperature.
That and if you put your hands in your pockets, they go back to normal, regardless of whether or not you're shivering.
The gloves are self defeating because yes, they would cool your core temperature, but you'd probably get irritated at the big cold things sucking your heat out to your finger tips before you'd pass out.
Something for the toes would be better, you can't put your toes in your pockets... that is until it is too late.
If it is possible to build gloves with heatpipes in them, there must be flexible heatpipes available commercially.
How come I cannot just buy a CPU cooler consisting of a CPU heatsink with attached flexible heatpipe and heat distributor, which I can mount between the CPU on one side and the metal outside of the computer case on the other?
Soft Aerogel jacket- http://www.i4u.com/article803.html I've seen others too, I belive to be standard issue for antartica crews now.
Things are not as they appear, nor are they otherwise
Spoken like a true Ontarian! Psst, the rest of canada hates your province, not Quebec. Get with the times.
For your feet he's working on something involving heat-piped shoes and an anal probe.
"It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
This is exactly what I need! On very cold nights when I'm out with my telescope, the only thing that still gets cold are my fingers. The best solution I've found so far is to wear a pair of fingertipless gloves that have mitten flaps which flop over the ends of the fingers. Into the mitten flap pocket I insert a chemical warmer packet(REI). When I need to focus the scope I flip the mitten flap back. It works quite, but it's nowhere near as elegant a system as Dr. Ma's heatpipe-driven gloves.
The way to make your hands warmer is to insulate your entire body better. When your body is cold, your body prioritizes your heat energy - using most of it on the vital areas in your torso and your head. Fingers and toes are less vital, and so they get robbed of heat in order to use it elsewhere. That's what leads to the strange condition where if you don't have a warm hat, your fingers will get cold. (Your body is desperately shunting heat energy up to your head to keep your brain alive, even though it's really inefficient to be moving the heat to the location that's leaking such a large amount of heat.) So if you don't have a warm hat, your head will actually still feel okay, but at the expense of the rest of your body, starting with the fingers and toes.
This product just tries to ignore evolution and do things backward. There's a *reason* your body tends to sacrifice fingers and toes when you are dying of cold. If you are cold enough that your fingers and toes are starting to feel painfully cold, then you've got a warmth problem *overall* across your whole body that can't be fixed by just moving the heat around.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
>Spoken like a true Ontarian! Psst, the rest of canada hates your province, not Quebec. Get with the times.
Of course they do. That's because if Canada leaves with Quebec, we'd still be Canada, and they'd just keep their own provinces' name (we have both history and population on our side). It's all penis envy, you know. Like when you hate someone driving an SUV because it's bigger and better than your car. It doesn't make it right, it just makes it true.
Don't like it? Tough.
Oh, and BTW, the Reform party (aka: The party for Western Canada) hated Quebec too. Get with the program, Newfie. Only Eastern Canadians worry about Quebec separating. Probably because they'd be isolated (bummer) from the homeland then.
yesterday i was wearing enough layers on my torso and pants that i didn't even need a coat.
but my fingers ? They're always too cold. Infact, when i finally came inside my finger tips hurt so badly that the very centers of the pain didn't really have feeling at all.
I suspect that i was in the very beginning stages of a frost bite.
I was running electrical circuits in our garage and there was no wind but the ambient temp was 7 below (F). Even with gloves my hands did not stay warm.
Just todtay i was lamenting to my boss that i'd buy the gloves they give shuttle astronauts (airtight, with water jacket circulation) if they were availabvle. Looks like they are.
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
When the body gets cold, it goes into emergency mode. Shuts off the temps to the the outer body to protect the brain, heart, lungs etc.
Can't argue with you if you've actually gone and done it. I know that my fingers and toes would fall off, layers or not in -20F windchill. shit, i went skiing recently and even hand/toe warmers couldn't keep my digits 100% warm.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
This "heat that has already escaped" argument is absurd. By that argument, you may as well be naked in the cold as bundled up because the only thing clothes or a blanket can catch is heat that has "already escaped".
By removing heat from immediately outside the core body area, these heat pipes have the same effect on the core body that standing on a highly thermally conductive material such as cement has on your feet. In fact, if they work really well, they should actually feel cold.
The internal organs need to maintain a rather narrow temperature range or they suffer catastrophic collapse (electrochemical failure). The extremities can go way outside the lethal boundary temperatures in the core before they even start becoming uncomfortable.
For this reason, the body constricts the blood vessels in your extremities if you start to get cold to conserve core body heat. If you bypass this mechanism and create an express lane for moving heat out of the core into the extremities, you'd better have excess core heat or you'll be in trouble.
Of course, if you're not in wilderness survival conditions, and are so bundled up that you're actually getting a bit too warm, then pumping some of the excess heat directly to your fingers or toes could be more comfy than simply opening your coat.
So for around town, for relatively short periods, it could be okay if you're wearing a warm enough coat. But if you're wearing a warm enough coat, you're core temp might start going up, in which case you're body will dilate the blood vessels and dump heat to your hands and feet, essentially doing the same thing.
"Those who have never entered upon scientific pursuits know not a tithe of the poetry by which they are surrounded."
Reformers hate liberal ontario and Alberta has it's own separatist movement. BC, Quebec, and Manitoba have a marijuana alliance. Eastern canada has a distinct fishing culture,
Ontario is pretty much just another US state.
scripsit soft_guy:
FWIW, we get snow in Phoenix from time to time, too. It never stays on the ground, but it will fall, usually in the predawn hours, every few years. We usually get frost a few times a winter, too.
In principio creauit Linus Linucem.
Hi All -
e freez.html) that I rediscovered what the source of that earlier mention on this list states flatly, regarding the "hunter's response" and other natural adaptations, "You have no such defenses, having spent your days at a keyboard in a climate-controlled office. Only after about ten minutes of hard climbing, as your body temperature rises, does blood start seeping back into your fingers. Sweat trickles down your sternum and spine."
Some Nordic peoples like Scandinavians, Lapps, and Eskimos can thaw their hands with involuntary, periodic dialation of their blood vessels. This was a key adaptation for people who had to contend with cold climates while doing work with their extremities like hunting, fishing, etc. In fact, the technical term, cold induced vasodialation, is more commonly known by the case through which it was discovered: Norwegian fishermen's reflex. It's also called the "hunting response" in some journals.
Here's how it works: Blood vessels at the extremities constrict when temperature drops to 59 degrees F (15 degrees C). At 50 degrees F (10 degrees C) this vasoconstriction is interrupted by a nearly clockwork cycle of vasodialation that occurs at a steady rate of somewhere between 5 and 10 minute intervals. This, of course, comes at the expense of a slight loss in core temperature but nature decided keeping one's fingers is important enough in the long term to pay for with heat loss in the short term.
The strange thing is that a somewhat heavy-breathing Outside magazine article (http://web.outsideonline.com/magazine/0197/9701f
To be honest, this kind of first person writerly authority is usually a strong bullshit detector for me, but I was still curious. I never wear gloves, except when kayaking and like taking walks for hours in the cold, like I did this morning. I also keep most of my windows open during the winter. But I certainly don't rough it on a fishing boat in the arctic.
My ancestors are in good part Nordic and for hundreds of years worked the North Sea and then New York Harbor (fishermen, bargemen, tugboat pilots, sailors, etc.). The one time I really noticed that I had this response to the cold was kayaking one morning in the Hudson Rivber when it was 7 degrees Fahrenheit (-6 to -10 wind chill) and we had 25 mph gusts.
There was snow and ice all around the docks and pier, so I wasn't entirely surprised when I noticed that my paddle was encrusted with ice and slush. I just wondered why I hadn't noticed it before. So, I dipped my paddle in to rinse it off and then was absolutely astonished when a minute later it was encased in *more* ice than before! Okay, I'm slow.
I then experimented with a second dip and sure enough, ice formed before my very eyes! I'd never experienced that! As a woman I was dating at the time said, "Oh, you had your Jack London moment!"
Now here's the weird part: My hands became painfully cold rather quickly, then turned numb, and then my top finger digits felt nothing short of crystalline. The top digit wouldn't bend either. That last stage was also new for me. But then it all reversed! In a few minutes my fingers hurt again, and then all sensation and dexterity returned, and my hands felt perfectly fine and warm. I was amazed. Mind you, this isn't a matter of the damage passing to the point where my body shut of pain or something, they felt entirely normal and functioned perfectly. What didn't change so much is what I thought would make the difference -- activity. I didn't increase my motions or flexes to warm things up, and we paddled at a steady rate and had been active on the dock and pier earlier.
Upon returning from the paddle it seemed to me a good time to test my restored/repaired Kokatat dry suit. I'd recently put socks into the suit and replaced the neck and wrist gaskets.
The highlight of my day, and perhaps my winter waterfront experiences, was test-swimming for a bit to make sure I was truly wearing life preserving gear. I'm happy to say I was more comfortable and relaxed than I'd ever thought possible! I felt like the big and hairy Esther Williams of the North.
Gracefully swimming to you,
Erik Baard
No, there are two standard-issue jackets for people going to Antarctica on U.S., Australian, New Zealand, and several other government projects: Carhart or this kind. You get your choice, although by default scientists get the red parkas and support crews get the Carharts. Neither option is really the best for people who need to be out in harsh weather, like the search and rescue teams, who typically bring custom gear.
>Reformers hate liberal ontario
No shit! And yeah, I voted for them. You'll see later on in this comment I hate liberals. A lot. For a host of reasons I'd detail out, but then I'd just look like a whiner.
Anyways, that's why I mentioned them and they also hate Quebec. Unlike Ontario, which they like _enough_ to hold elections there, they gave Quebec the big goose egg.
>Ontario is pretty much just another US state.
And there's a problem with that? It's like the US, but WITH the missing healthcare and intelligent "stay out of other's business" government. A sweet combo, IMHO.
>Alberta has it's own separatist movement. BC, Quebec, and Manitoba have a marijuana alliance
None have which have gotten into even the double digits for seats in government. Unlike the Bloc, they're joke parties. The Bloc means business and has more seats in government than provinces outside Ontario get votes.
(And yes, before you ask, Ontarians are idiots for voting liberal over and over. I'd support any movement to get more power into the hands of voters in Western Canada. At least they have a clue.)
Now that we're completely off-topic...
I agree with you (being an Ontarian turned Westerner, myself) that Western Canada needs more say. I don't know how it would be done, I certainly don't think US Electoral College is the way to go. Would it be better to think your vote doesn't matter because Ontario has the majority of the votes, or would it be better to believe your vote doesn't matter because you don't live in a "swing province". While it's mostly a matter of perception, your individual vote has a more direct meaning in a direct election. I'd like to have my vote count towards the party I want to elect even if everyone else in my province votes a different way.
In any case, I don't think seperation is the answer. I think it's a stupid idea which is not, or at least should not be, intended as a realistic goal, but more as a bargaining chip. Which it generally is. Except that it sometimes takes on a life of its own and people get caught up in the moment, like what happened with the Quebec referendum in my opinion.
When all is said and done, we have an awesome country. We may disagree from time to time, and we do, but that's why we're all different provinces. We work well together, we really have a lot in common when you think about it, and anyone who honestly thinks they'd be better off without the rest of us is both naive and arrogant. We rock, we're Canadians, eh?
I attend the University of Missouri Rolla, please do not insult us by refering to the University of Missouri Columbia as the University of Missouri. I understand that is some cool research but if you look into it, you will find that all the really technical research in the UM system is done at the University of Missouri ROLLA.
the article states that the glove will have a "wick structure" that will raise the liquid from the hand up to the arm. What gravity-defying structure is this?
For hours 7.5 and above, and for the next day, and the day after that .... unless you want to spend another $1USD and tote a huge supply of the hand warmers with you on camping trips. This would be great for anyone who has to spend a lot of time in cold environments: snow sports, fishing, hunting, and even working in warehouses and large freezers.
> Anyways, that's why I mentioned them and they also hate Quebec. Unlike Ontario, which they like _enough_ to hold elections there, they gave Quebec the big goose egg.
n 2. html
For the record, quebec had Canadian Alliance (post-reform party) candidates in the 1998 national election, they just didn't get any seats because people here don't want a right wing party.
http://temagami.carleton.ca/jmc/cnews/20102000/