Can Star Wars Episode III Be Saved?

mcwop writes "MSNBC is running a commentary asking: 'Can "Star Wars: Episode III" be saved?' It proposes changes such as ripping off Akira Kurosawa, getting the otherwise good actors to emote, and even firing Lucas. It is one year away, but is it too late to save Episode III?"

Comments

no.

[mrpuffypants]

no.

Re:no.

[eviloverlordx]

The question "Can Episode III be saved?" begs the question of whether it needs to be saved in the first place. People can be amazingly blind to the fact that the first three movies were not stunning pieces of filmmaking in the first place, and that Lucas really hasn't changed the formula for the prequels. Are there things that could have been done better in the prequels? Certainly, but the same could be said for the original trilogy, too. I've seen all five movies multiple times in theaters, and not once have I felt like I wasted my money. I also never felt like I saw a masterpiece, just a series of enjoyable movies.

Just your friendly, neighborhood Dark Lord of the Sith

Re:no.

[Anonymous Coward]

How the ... did this get modded +4 INTERESTING.

Ya, it should've been modded INSIGHTFUL.

Re:no.

[Nick of NSTime]

Empire Strikes Back was directed by Irvin Kershner and written Leigh Brackett (a master of pulp SF and Ray Bradbury's mentor) and Lawrence Kasdan. Some would argue that it is the best movie sequels ever made.

Re:no.

[bahamat]

Not until the 3rd one did it really get any attention and even then it was mainly the unwashed masses...which in the late 70's were abundant.

You aparently weren't around when they came out. The release of Star Wars was one of the biggest events of the 70's. People stood in line in pouring rain for 3 hours to see it. People went to see it 10 or more times in the theaters. It was all people talked about. It was huge. Everyone saw it. Cinematic quality aside, you can debate this all you like, but it was a monumental event in American culture.

You also seem to be unaware that only one of the three movies was released in the 70's. Empire was in 1980 and Jedi was in '83. Were you even born when Jedi came out?

Re:no.

[ScottGant]

Not until the 3rd one did it really get any attention and even then it was mainly the unwashed masses..which in the late 70's were abundant

By the 3rd one I'm assuming you're saying "Return of the Jedi"?

If so, then sorry to say, you're just dead wrong. I suppose you were not alive when the first Star Wars came out in 1977? The world basically stopped when that movie came out. We're talking EVERYONE was talking and buzzing around about Star Wars. You couldn't turn on a TV, couldn't listen to the radio, couldn't go to any other movie without seeing a huge line of people waiting to get in and seeing it again.

Not to mention the fact that Star Wars was nominated for best picture of the year of 1977. What beat it out? Annie Hall. But to say that not until the 3rd one did it really get any attention is just...well, wrong. I'm certainly not a fan-boy of Star Wars, but I just can't let this slip by. Mainly because it kind of annoying to see Star Wars everywhere. And I mean everywhere. And it took forever for it to calm down.

Artwork? Probably not. Plain and simple fun? You betcha. Also, Lucas made it originally to be like a serial B movie that he grew up on,

Also, not to be picky, but the 2nd and 3rd one didn't even come out until the early 80's. But I suppose the 80's had their share of unwashed masses for you.

Re:no.

[Fouquet]

the fact that the first three movies were not stunning pieces of filmmaking in the first place

This is certainly true. And I have no complaints about the plot lines/story of Ep I & II. (except maybe Jarjar). My problem with the new episodes is the dialoge. The original episodes were so great because of all of the one liners. No matter how many times I hear 'I've got a bad feeling about this' and 'Look at the size of that thing', they are still hillarious. The dialog in Ep II was more like something out of a cheezy romance novel or a drama movie, and that was why they sucked. Lucas just needs to keep each line to 10 words or less!

Re:no.

[peterjhill2002]

I was 8 when it came out, and I can remember seeing the movie 9 different times. It was the first time I can remember that whenever a friend went to see it that their parents would take all the kids buddies. So my parents only took me once, but we all saw the movie multiple times... it was truly a group experience. I believe that is why it is such a cult movie.

On top of that, I clearly remember watching a documentary of the making of the movie, all the special effects, in school, in our library with all the third graders.

These are the reasons why so many people in their thirties have such a communal tie to Star Wars. Later when Empire was released, all of your friends who saw the first movie got back together to see the sequel. When Jedi came out, we were all older, and saw the Ewoks as this pandering too young kids, because we felt the movie was for us personally, those who saw the original Star Wars in the theater. We wanted Jedi to be targeted to us. When (understandably) Lucas wanted to bring more young children into the Star Wars cult, we protested. Take this to the ultimate level with Jar Jar and Phantom Menace, and we can see why so many felt the movie to be poisonous trash. It was taking our childhood youth icons and giving it away to others.

Perhaps if we could all watch Episode 3 through the eyes of an 8 or ten year old, we would enjoy the experience much better.

Re:no.

[(54)T-Dub]

The thing that was great, too me, about the first three movies was the innovative and realistic galaxy that was created. I loved how everything was dirty and ships would break down or get stuck. Han Solo was a smuggler driven by money (in the begining at least) and he fired first at Guedo. Darth Vader and the Emperor were menacing and the music was incredible.

The prequels were un-inspired vanilla squeaky clean space movies. The characters were flat and Lucas can't direct a movie to save his life. Natalie Portman was great in Léon, Cold Mountain and Heat. As with most young actors though, she needs a good director to make her shine. Even Samuel L. Jackson's performance was weak. Samuel L. Freaking Jackson for christ's sake. I think it is very telling that they wrapped up shooting the 3rd prequel ahead of schedule ....

Lucas: "Take 1, Action"
Actors give half-ass performance
Lucas: "Cut. That looks good to me."
Lucas knob polisher: "Yes Heir Lucas, that looked great."
Lucas: "Ok, that's a wrap."

Re:no.

[perlchild]

How much of its impact on cinematic culture was the movies themselves? and how much was that at the time, no sci-fi(in the broadest sense, Star Wars is not as sci-fi as say Blade Runner) movie explored the same themes?

The question "Can it be saved?" also brings up the question: "From what?" From being overmarketed? Nothing can save it from that. From being light fluff, with low content, and being fixated on characters we know from the other movies, and yet have a darker feel to it? Not sure it can be saved from this last one, because...

because...

because that's probably the best that can be hoped for from this movie.

Read that again,

IMO Empire strikes back was the darkest of the original trilogy, and it certainly brought new elements to the trilogy the other two movies didn't. It was the most content-rich of the two, as it explored the Jedi in detail, as well as Darth Vader, and his relationship to Luke, it also fleshed out important characters, introduced new ones that would become important in the third movie, and was generally the more developed(plot/character wise) of the three. It went somewhere(to a big cliffhanger to be specific), and added a lot of "deep thinking" material(is Lando trustworthy, what's gonna happen to XYZ, etc...)

It basically left no stone unturned in the Star Wars universe. That's why Return of the Jedi could be so light on content, and had to be action-driven, the work had already been done, and it would have been redundant to develop nearly as much characters/situations/worlds. So ROTJ was a localized plot, with galaxywide repercussions.

As for the first movie, its impact was probably most measurable under the special effects category, of which Lucas could be considered "Core Developer" if not "maybe-not-so-Benevolent Dictator" to use the Linux term. Noone had really used special effects to that degree before 1977(to my knowledge) and he certainly influenced the Hollywood adoption of

1) derived products
2) sequels

He may also have created the first american Otaku (fanboys).

Can any of this be expected of the sixth movie in the series, especially since it's a "prequel" where we might not know the details, but we certainly know the ending.

It can be good entertainment, if they work at it. And the work I'm talking about isn't an ILM, it's in the script department, and hence, it might be a heck of a lot too late to "save" that particular movie, since the plot part was set in stone ages ago... They can try to avoid fluff, as much as possible in the third movie, and keep it gritty, the-real-world-is-a-bad-place-especially-that-Jedi s-are-being-killed-all-over-now. But they can't really "save it" to the point of making it a better prequel movie than the movies in the IV-V-VI position. Better special effects, yes, a good enough plot? Maybe, for those who haven't seen the original movie, but not for the hardcore fans. That's the third "weakness" of this movie, it's a wide-audience movie, but with entrenched fans who have a great deal of influence, by disseminating(and tainting) information about the coming movie, interesting people with less first-hand knowledge of the series. That the last movie in the trilogy came out in theatres in 1988 means people less 21 years of age won't remember the theater version of the movie either. Another "chink" in the third movie's armor.

Maybe they should have tried for the original set of sequels(it was meant as a nine-movie set, at one point), despite the fact that Anakin Skywalker was probably the most interesting, complex character in the bunch.

Re:no.

[Chess_the_cat]

Not true. The first time 'blockbuster' was used was to describe the hysteria surrounding Jaws. Click here.

Re:no.

[slackerboy]

Randal: Which did you like better? Jedi or The Empire Strikes Back?
Dante: Empire.
Randal: Blasphemy.
Dante: Empire had the better ending. I mean, Luke gets his hand cut off, finds out Vader's his father. Han gets frozen and taken away by Boba Fett. It ends on such a down note. I mean, that's what life is, a series of down endings. All Jedi had was a bunch of Muppets.

Re:no.

[b1t r0t]

He may also have created the first american Otaku (fanboys).

What's wrong, son, ain't never heard of Trekkies? Sheesh, kids these days.

A bright future

[RobertB-DC]

I see a bright future for the Star Wars prequels. Unfortunately, it's a more distant future than one year away.

Wait 20 years or so. The original trilogy will continue to be seen as a seminal work, and the "prequels" as a bastardized ripoff. Eventually, Lucas will die, or otherwise give up the franchise (maybe Michael Jackson can trade his Beatles songs for it).

Then, finally, someone can remake parts I through III the way they should have been done in the first place. No midchlorians, no virgin birth, no Jar Jar. Special effects that compliment the story, instead of overshadowing it.

Some future screenwriter and director will have the opportunity to give us back the thrill we had in the '70s, when we saw the original Star Wars in a non-multiplex theater, and were in awe. We who were preteens will be in our 50s... it won't be too late.

Something to look forward to! Just not in 2005.

re: a bright future

[ed.han]

i know i'm gonna get flamed for this but actually, jar-jar is absolutely necessary to the story as it exists: nobody else is stupid enough to be palpatine's tool by suggesting giving palpatine emergency powers. w/out jar-jar, there's no emergency powers and hence, no clone wars. i happen to resent it, but that's the way i think it shakes out.

otherwise though, that's an interesting idea. of course, there's a bit of me that wishes i could see a kevin smith treatment of ep 3, considering he's a big SW fanboy.

ed

Re: a bright future

[Anonymous Coward]

nobody else is stupid enough to be palpatine's tool by suggesting giving palpatine emergency powers

Any random functionary can fill in this role. In fact, it's a better story if you show how someone who's normally quite sensible can be scared into granting a government ridiculous "emergency powers" due to a nebulous threat. It certainly happens all the time in Real Life.

Re:A bright future

[The Ultimate Fartkno]

> -- "I'm no actor, but I'm crass enough to scam my way into a movie every now and then." - Henry Rollins

Your sig gives me a great idea! Why not take the article's suggestion of dropping Hayden Christiansen and replacing him... with Henry Rollins! Wouldn't that be awesome?! Lava-surfing saber battles? Hell no! Serious man-on-man pummeling! A pre-armor Vader the size of a Volkswagen stomping around in gym shorts like some heavily-tattooed punk-rock Hulk would absolutely beat the living *crap* out of what we had before! And the first time someone calls him "Annie" he could just head-butt them and start screaming into... erm... some sort of space microphone or something.

That would rule.

Re: a bright future

[RobertB-DC]

i know i'm gonna get flamed for this but actually, jar-jar is absolutely necessary to the story as it exists: nobody else is stupid enough to be palpatine's tool by suggesting giving palpatine emergency powers. w/out jar-jar, there's no emergency powers and hence, no clone wars. i happen to resent it, but that's the way i think it shakes out.

I saw that, and realized that there was a reason why Lucas made Jar Jar the Uncle Tom of the SW franchise for a reason after all. But it still boils down to poor writing and a lack of imagination (where "imagination" != "special effects"). If the plot was so transparent that only Jar Jar could fall for it, what of the other thousands of supposedly intelligent members of the Senate?

A good writer would have found a way to make Palpatine's plot more devious, more plausible... so inescapable that even Padme would have to agree to it. There are plenty of examples to draw on from recent American history, from McCarthyism to the present.

It didn't take a Jar Jar character in the US Senate when it voted to give Bush the power to wage war -- just incontrovertable "facts" that weren't what they seemed. The Imperial Senate didn't require a fool to lead them astray -- all it would take would have been a well-meaning but fundamentally flawed desire to do right.

Re:A bright future

[Wylfing]

when we saw the original Star Wars in a non-multiplex theater, and were in awe

Maybe a bit overstated. Even as a 10-year-old I felt embarassed by the flat, corny dialogue in some parts of #4, especially when Han says to Luke "May the Force be with you." You can tell that Harrison feels like a goon saying that line.

Now that's not to say the Star Wars universe isn't great. I rarely had so much fun as playing SW-KotOR, and much of it was because it was just so cool walking around on Tatooine.

Re:A bright future

[Kenja]

To quote Spaced.

Jar Jar makes the Ewoks look like fucken Shaft!

Re: a bright future

[pardey]

From William Shirer's The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich:

On August 19, 1934, 95% of the Germans who were registered to vote went to the polls and 90% (38 million) of adult German citizens voted to give Adolf Hitler complete and total authority to rule Germany as he saw fit. Only 4.25 million Germans voted against this transfer of power to a totalitarian regime.

I got this from ESR's web site: Why I Am An Anarchist.

Of course, that doesn't mean that the average moviegoing American would find such a vote in the Galactic Senate plausible, which says much about our instinctive understanding of human nature and history. Also, we wouldn't want the "good guys" to do anything that would help the "bad guys" now would we? That would just confuse everyone.

Re:A bright future

[nomadic]

You can tell that Harrison feels like a goon saying that line.

Maybe he's just acting. I mean, Han Solo would feel like a goon saying that.

Re: a bright future

[Chouhada]

"It didn't take a Jar Jar character in the US Senate when it voted to give Bush the power to wage war.."

agreed...it took 77 Jar Jar characters in the Senate and 296 Jar Jar characters in the House. Of course, why the rest of the Jar Jar characters in the Legislature voted otherwise will always be a mystery...

Re: a bright future

[Gzip Christ]

It didn't take a Jar Jar character in the US Senate when it voted to give Bush the power to wage war

Some would argue that Bush is the Jar Jar character - they certainly have a lot of similarities. Perhaps Ashcroft is Palpatine. He seems a lot more like an evil mastermind.

Re: a bright future

[Ubergrendle]

(cough cough) patriot act (cough cough)

Re: a bright future

[gowen]

But by 1934, Germany was already a totalitarian state, and Hitler had already shown that he crushed his enemies rapidly and ruthlessly. They 1934 election result is wholly and entirely untrustworthy. Prior to the terror, in the last free elections (1933), only about 1/3rd of the electorate voted for Hitler, and he was Hindenburg's anointed succesor running on a moderate ticket (at least in comparison to '34) albeit one filled with crude and vile anti-semitism.

Simple answer: no

[Gothmolly]

It can't be saved, because it is exactly what people demand. American culture makes this movie inevitably what it will be. Does this condemn Lucas, or the low standards of the viewing consumer?

Re:Simple answer: no

[greymond]

"it is exactly what people demand"
- only those younger than 10 years old could ever appreciate Jar Jar Binks....I don't think he was demanded at all.

"American culture makes this movie inevitably what it will be"
- In that everyone who enjoyed episodes 4-7, hates episodes 1-3? ok, but I don't see how thats "American Culture's" fault....it's more like Lucas's fault for writing and directing 3 shitty movies made for kids(kids=10yrs and younger)

Re:Simple answer: no

[mrtroy]

everyone said that episode I and II were not as good as they had hoped.

AFTER they went to the theatre to see the movie and bought the DVD and the special DVD with 5 seconds of extra footage.

Yes, it is too late, because a boycott of episode II after episode I's horrible blunder would have possibly saved the third movie, because they listen to box office sales, not slashdot.

But if they make a movie that as many people as possible can go to, and sell a lot of tickets, they make a lot of money. And episode I and II made a lot of money.

Re:Simple answer: no

[Gothmolly]

Ah, but who took the kids to the movie? Who bought them the plastic lightsabers? The Jar-Jar dolls? If, as consumers, we neglect the consequences of our actions, is that not the same as choosing their ill-effects?

Re:Simple answer: no

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

Back in the 80's, the only people who could appreciate Ewoks were =10 too.

Re:Simple answer: no

[TwistedGreen]

No, it's definitely Lucas. If you look at movies that he's worked on--Indiana Jones, the original and special edition Star Wars--he really seems to have a thing for 'kids movies.' "The Temple of Doom," for example, was a terrible movie and the worst of the three Indiana Jones movies. It was also the one in which Lucas was most involved. He seems to have a penchant for making terrible kids movies, and I think it's just getting worse with age.

With the original Star Wars trilogy, he was limited by technology... but now, he can throw whatever he wants into a movie to fulfill his 'vision.' If the special edition 'improvements' he added to the original trilogy were really making Star Wars into what he wanted it to be thirty years ago, you can see that trend: adding useless scenes with robot antics, Han stepping on Jabba's tail, and loads of other childish slapstick crap like that. The best he could do thirty years ago with Ewoks.

In conclusion, any guy who dreams up Jar-Jar Binks is obviously nuts. You can't blame market pressure for a guy who seems to get off on terrible kids movies.

Yoda

[KeyboardMonkey]

Save or save not. There is no try!

Does Lucas Know?

[Paulrothrock]

Does Lucas know how people feel? Does he listen to the criticism? Does he realize it is hurting his reputation as a filmmaker? Is that his real neck or did he get implants? Am I asking too many questions???

Re:Does Lucas Know?

[Kainaw]

Does Lucas know how people feel? Does he listen to the criticism?


I know that there will be 100 posts saying this exact same thing by the time I click the submit button, but to answer your questions: Yes and No. He does know how people feel. He doesn't live in a little bubble in the Arizona desert. He may even read Slashdot while hiding under the identity of Paul Rothrock. But, in the end, Star Wars is not about the movies. It isn't about the story. The Start Wars books are far more interesting story-wise than the movies. It is about the marketing. If you go way back to A New Hope and read the behind-the-scenes stuff that went on to get the movie made, you can see that Lucas was keen on marketing. Everything else was just a hobby.

Re:Does Lucas Know?

[Skyshadow]

He knows -- I remember reading after Ep. 1 that he sent around a memo acknowledging that they'd hurt the series with that steaming load of crapola and that they needed to do better with Ep. 2.

Well, Ep. 2 *was* better, but I think it also demonstrated that Lucas doesn't really understand the basis of his problems. He chalked it up to criminally bad ideas like Jar Jar and fixed those, but then went right back to his usual technique of crappy dialog and lousy direction.

What really needs to happen is at least part of what the article suggests -- the movie needs a talented director (aka, not Lucas). I'm not sure that Lucas' ego will let him do that; he's spent too many years basking in the praise of the original trilogy.

It won't happen. Frankly, I'm more keyed to see the next Harry Potter movie than Star Wars Ep 3 at this point, and that's a sad, sad thing to say about a new Star Wars movie.

Re:Does Lucas Know?

[F34nor]

Ep. 2 WASN'T better, it was object oriented programming. He used the drag and drop approach to build a mediocrity.

Once again no one on Slashdot is talking about the truth of the situation. Lukas is getting you to pay for a paradigm shift to digital movie making. All he needs is for the movie to be good enough to cover costs. He could probably write off the cost as R&D anyway because that's what he's doing. He is doing a proof of concept for all digital filmmaking. He is not telling a story, He is not making a movie, and he is definitely not making art of any kind.

The whole point is to make money

[Moderation abuser]

I.e. to cash in on the success of the original series. It doesn't have to be *good* to do that. It only has to have "Star Wars" in the title.

It'll serve it's purpose. Unless you are planning not to bother going to see it, which as geeks and nerds, I frankly don't believe.

Killing off Jar-Jar

[stephenisu]

Killing off Jar-Jar in the supossed lightsaber duel while surfing on lava scene would help.

Makes sure it's a slow painful death with lots of burning from the lava. Tape his mouth shut too, so I don't need to hear his stupid voice. I say R2D2 should be the one that "accidentily" pushes him in. Cuz R2 is the comic relief pimp.

Re:Killing off Jar-Jar

[Coneasfast]

reminds me of an old comment i read:

Episode III: The Passion of Jar-Jar

it's just 2 hours of jar-jar being beaten.

Sure fire save.

[Sideshow Coward]

Well, call me crazy, but how can surfing on lava not save a movie? Is there a better way short of two car chases in a single movie?

The sacrifice of saving it isn't worth it.

[xeeno]

If you save episode 3, you lose the result of finally driving a nail into the star wars franchise.

Think of it: one good move after at least 3 crappy sequels. Statistically, if you encourage this jackass to keep on making movies 75% will be shit.

Please. Let it die.

Re:The sacrifice of saving it isn't worth it.

[Hatta]

Think of it: one good move after at least 3 crappy sequels. Statistically, if you encourage this jackass to keep on making movies 75% will be shit.

That's a better average than the rest of hollywood.

YES

[cubicledrone]

Make it a musical! Use a lot of trendy pop-culture jokes and cliched music. Obi-Wan and Anakin surfing during the lightsaber battle is brilliant! BRILLIANT!

Battlestar Wars Galactica

[Mad Man]

Like Battlestar Galactica , somebody will eventually re-make Star Wars a few decades from now.

In the new version, Luke Skywalker will be a woman...

Re:Battlestar Wars Galactica

[Digital_Quartz]

Was I the only one who instantly thought of the scene where Leia kisses him when they read that?

Saving Ep. 3

[Skyshadow]

The story's pretty much a rehash of what we've all been saying since we were walking out of Episode 1, but it's funny and hard to argue with. This in particular brought a smile to my face:

When Lucas shows up, knock him out, encase him in a block of frozen carbonite and put him out of the way somewhere until the movie is out in theaters.

The only problem being, of course, that you shouldn't let him out after Ep. 3 lest he decide to somehow sully my other fond childhood memories, perhaps by stealing my box of photos and defecating in it.

Anyhow, the article addresses the basic irony of Star Wars: That the guy who created it has also done the most the drive it into the ground, and that success has allowed him to do so more completely than ever. We all knew going in that Lucas can't direct, he can't write dialog, and yet here we go again...

Personally, I just thank God that this decade has had the LOTR trilogy to call its own. It was what we were hoping the new Star Wars movies would be.

None of our business, really

[The Good Reverend]

Note to everyone not named "George Lucus": Star Wars isn't yours. Yes, I know you're a fan. Yes, I know you grew up with these films. But it's a few pieces of entertainment, and the brainchild of another person.

I'm sorry you viewed the first films through the rose-tinted glasses of youth, and are unable to view the latest three in the same way. Feel free to bitch and moan about how it's not up to some mythical "standard" you create, but it comes down to it being Lucus' movie, and he can do as he pleases.

Re:None of our business, really

[nine-times]

Every artist, writer, filmmaker, whatever- has to deal with the fact that once they make their work public, it isn't all theirs anymore. By showing it to others, they've sent it out into the world and given it a life of it's own. At that point, the creator can't control my thoughts about the work, and they can't collect royalties on my recollections. The work becomes, subtly, yours, mine, and everyone who sees it.

That's why we have public domain- because we recognize that, although the creator should be rewarded for their talents, at a certain point, the co-ownership of everyone takes precedence.

That's also why you get offended when someone dislikes a movie you love, because they're knocking something that belongs to you. Or, sometimes, when some idiot likes the same movie or song as you do, it can get a little offensive to think that they like it for all the wrong reasons. Not only are you being forced to share ownership, but share it with someone who continuously damages it.

No, this isn't ownership in a legal sense. I can't sue anyone over this. Still, I can think of a lot of great works that I didn't create that I think of as "mine".

If Lucas, or any creative-type, can't deal with this fact, he can go ahead creating, but he should stop releasing the creation to the public and allowing others to view it. It's just the nature of the beast.

Petition for the Theatrical Release

[faust13]

As always, please remember to sign the petition for the release of the theatrical version on DVD here: http://www.hanshootsfirst.org

Who cares?

[TaxSlave]

I'll go see Episode III for the same reasons I went to see Episodes I and II. It's there. It's more Star Wars. It's a decent enough story, but deep down it's just schlock.

Face it. Episode IV is just a good schlocky Sci-Fi Fantasy that was both fantastic and familiar.

I hated the ewoks about as much as I hate Jar-Jar. It was just cutesy, kiddy crap added to appeal to the younger audience. I tried not to let it destroy the fun of having more Star Wars.

If Episode I was the best Lucas wanted to give us, then that's what I'll take. Episode II was a vast improvement, and I expect Episode III will be good enough for me.

In the meantime, if I want to watch something with real quality, that isn't schlock, I'll watch LOTR.

yeah right

[Savatte]

Star Wars will be saved much like how Alderaan was spared by Tarkin in Ep 4.

What an odd question...

[M.C. Hampster]

I'm assuming that no one here as seen the finished movie. So how can one ask the question "Can a movie be saved?" before knowing if it needs to even be saved.

Of course, based off episode 1 and 2, I'm guessing Jesus couldn't save the thing...

hire brin!!!

[evenprime]

Yes, it could be saved. Fire lucas, hire David Brin. His misguided/evil Yoda plot line is brilliant. He's correct when he says, "Almost the entire list of awful coincidences and silly paradoxes can be eliminated...It could even go down in history as something profoundly moral and clever."

I already told several people that I will not be seeing Ep III because Brin's conclusion to the series is so much better than anything Lucas could come up with.

The series was ALWAYS supposed to be pulp.

[Speare]

The whole Star Wars franchise was always, from day one, supposed to be a pulp "Saturday Matinee" sort of pulp serial.

It has a campy, heavily derivative space opera story line. It's been pieced together with black and white heroes and villains, both of which make the audience boo and giggle at the same time.

To fix one is to break the series. Most die-hard Star Wars fans are fans because they were kids when they saw the originals. Hell, many of you weren't even BORN to watch the original in the theaters in 1977. The series hangs together precisely because it is all schlock, and yet we love the characters anyway.

Its too EARLY!!

[Robmonster]

Its far too early to save it.

I reckon I'll be 'saving' it to a couple of CD-Roms in about a years time....

RM

I've got two words for Lucas

[Anonymous Coward]

Talking Pie.

They'll forget all the mistakes of the past if you add such a character.

Kurosawa

[jetkust]

I'm a Kurosawa fan myself. I just want to clear things up. I've been hearing a lot about the origional Star Wars "ripping off" Kurosawa's The Hidden Fortress. The article says the entire story was lifted from that movie. Have any of you seen the Hidden Fortress? Sure Lucas was inspired by that movie, but Star Wars is nothing like The Hidden Fortress.

As far as the article. I agree that Hayden Christensen is terrible as Dart Vadar. As well as most of his other points, especially the typical overuse of cgi effects which made me feel as if i was watching an videogame cut-scene the whole time. But one that he forgot to mention is the unbelievably forgetable characters who populate the script.

Lucas too possessive to let someone else try

[GuyMannDude]

Lucas will never allow anyone to do anything with Star Wars. In fact, his best buddy Steven Spielberg has already spoken about this. Lucas feels that the Star Wars saga will be his legacy and he doesn't want anyone messing with it. Spielberg practially begged Lucas for a chance to direct a Star Wars film and Lucas said no. So I can't see Lucas willingly giving up control to anyone. And with the new copyright laws, his family will be able to control Star Wars indefinitely. So you can forget about a Star Wars film ever being made by anyone with talent.

GMD

Midochlorians (sp?)

[ddelrio]

It was ruined as soon as the Midochlorians came into the picture. If that's all that matters, why didn't Yoda just give Luke a blood transfusion before facing Vader? He could have pumped up those midochlorians before Luke's encounter.

Lucas took all the magic out of Star Wars. He actually managed to go back in time and ruin the original three episodes with his pseudo-scientific explanation. And the new stuff stinks. As much as I hate the Jar-Jar character, I sympathised with him when he stepped in that pile of sh*t. That's exactly how I felt while watching Episode III.

He doesn't like criticism

[GuyMannDude]

Oh, Lucas knows that people don't like what he's done. The problem is that he thinks they are all wrong and doesn't want to hear it. In fact, CNN was refused access to Attack of the Clones based on a Connie Chung interview where she told Lucas that most people thought TPM was a disappointment. If you're going to kick the media off your property and deny them access to a major news story just because they suggested that the film didn't live up to expectations, I don't think you can honestly claim that you're open to criticism.

As far as his "reputation as a filmmaker", I think Lucas must realize now that he really isn't a filmmaker. He knows that Star Wars will be his legacy. So he really doesn't care about looking like some kind of great director because he knows he'll never direct again. That's probably one reason he's so possessive of the films -- he knows this is the last movie he'll ever direct.

GMD

Sure it can

[lightspawn]

You just right click, then select 'save as'.

Not better or worse, different

[WillAtMH]

I have ben a huge fan of the SW movies since I was a kid and saw them i a theater. I followed the universe and looked forward to the new movies.

The general story form the original 3 movies is rediculously thin. The original Matrix put more plot in that single film than was in ep4, ep5, and ep6 combined. That didnt make them suck... it made them simple and fun.

In the prequels, he added a story line, political complexities, and actual character development - all of which was completely abscent in the originals. While they may not be "better" in the sense that the style changes made them mode fun to watch, but they are certainly not garbage. They are simply different types of movies. They only get condemned because of peoples memories of how much they loved SW back in the late 70s and early 80s.

SW has always been made for 12 year olds to love. The new movies accomplish exactly the same thing the originals did... only this time you arent 12.

Re:Didn't Get Any Attention??

[ScottGant]

you would remember it was all the rage *before* it was released

Actually, the original Star Wars was a sleeper. Meaning that it didn't get released with a lot of fanfair in May of 1977. It came out of no where. They didn't have a lot of cash left over for advertising the movie. You have to remember, they didn't thik this was really going to work and it only cost 9 million to make. Even in 1977, 9 million wasn't a lot of money to make a movie.

Only after it became a hit that summer did all the hype build about it through the only means of the day, word of mouth.

Re:Didn't Get Any Attention??

[rworne]

Thanks for making me feel old. Episode IV was very popular among my friends and I at the time when we were 10 or so years old.

We had quite sophisticated tastes back then:
Saturday morning cartoons
Bicycles
Peterbuilt/Kenworth/MAC big-rig trucks & CB radios
Hotwheel/Matchbox car collecting
Catching insects and lizards
Tormenting the red ant nest at school
Planet of the Apes (all of them) along with SWAT/Emergency!/6 Million Dollar Man were the best of Hollywood, and KISS was the best musical band.

Is it any wonder as adults we see these films differently?

One Person's Opinion

[solarlux]

One thing I can't help wondering is if many people form a final opinion about the movies that is based on the loud public sentiment. My reaction to Star Wars 1 and 2 is that I loved them. The sci-fi backgrounds and effects were impressive, the action scenes intense, and the storyline was palatable. And I found several scenes to be quite memorable -- to name a few: the Obi-Wan/Darth Maul fight, the Yoda fight, and the huge jedi battle.

So yeah, I'm committing the unimaginable sin -- I liked Star Wars 1 and 2. Am I a stupid person? My career achievements would speak otherwise. Is my taste inferior? Perhaps, although the only thing I give a damn about is whether or not *I* enjoyed it. Am I unable to recognize poor-acting and plot-holes? No, I was cognizant of it all. Anakan and Amidala were cheesy (although I still love to say "you're making fun of me" in that cheesy tone to my wife to which she replies in an reciprocally cheesy tone: "I'd be much to frightened..."). However, I also juxtapose the shortcomings against the composite package of the movie. And in the case of Star Wars 1 and 2, the positive elements outweighed the negative ones to provide me a viewing experience which surpassed that of most movies.

And here's my main gripe -- I think there are others like me, who honestly enjoyed the movies when they were sitting in the theatre seats. But then, the popular and intellectually respectable position came to be that you were "absolutely miserable" during the movies. I mean, only a complete idiot could actually enjoy those movies, right?

All I ask is for you to consider this: at the time of your viewing -- were you enjoying the movie? If you were miserable, fine -- then the movies didn't jive with your refined taste. But if your hatred for the movies didn't develop until you read the comments on three dozen slashdot articles, then consider whether or not you are speaking your own opinions. Be honest enough to admit you enjoy what you enjoy. If you like Enterprise, great. If Farscape and FireFly raised your standards high enough that you can no longer enjoy Star Trek, then that's fine too. If the Matrix 3 plot resolution left a foul taste in your mouth (as it did for me), then live it. Just live your own opinions. I'm sure many critics out there genuinely hated the movies -- but I also believe there are many more who initially did not.

Re:Original Star Wars like the Beatles

[Dr_LHA]

Look at the Beatles now, while they should be reconized for what they did, most of the music itself hasn't aged well and the few gems that are there don't sparkle any more than current music. The "few gems"? I take it non of the moderators of this comment have ever listened to The Beatles then? Its hard to adequately explain how wrong the top poster here is. Sure the early work of the Beatles may be showing its age, but pretty much anything from Help! onwards any band worth its salt would kill to be able to write/perform today. If you had said the Bay City Rollers I might have agreed with your analogy. Like Star Wars they too were very popular with "the kids" in the 70s and in actual fact were commercial (although enjoyable) pap.

Han Solo And The Skywalker Twins.

[RatBastard]

The character of Luke was originally supposed to be a woman. I had a portfolio of production paintings from Star Wars ("A New Hope" for you youngin's) and there are several pictures where Luke's character was painted as a woman.

And it certainly would have changed the whole love-triangle dynamic. Instead of Lucas copping out by making Luke and Leia (sp?) brother and sister, it could have been lucky Han Solo and the Skywalker Twins!

You're both wrong!

[trezor]

There is no Jar Jar (*cough*) in episodes IV, V and VI.

That means that JarJar will be killed in episode 3. I'll pay to see that!

Touchy, touchy

[Gzip Christ]

To whomever moderated my original post as flamebait, I think you may have misunderstood my comparison of Bush to Jar Jar binks. I was not insinuating that they are both bumbling idiots, I merely meant that they both have floppy ears and funny accents.

Saving Episode III

[awkScooby]

Just a couple of suggestions:

• Put in some real Samuel L. Jackson lines - "use the force, bitch", "can someone hand me my lightsaber -- it's the one that says Bad Ass M***********," "I shall strike down upon thee..." etc
• Show some skin. Anikan should use force ass-grab, etc. Get creative with it (Darth-diggler anyone?)
• Have Jar Jar in the back seat of a landspeeder and have Anikan accidentally shoot him in the face. Yeah, it's a blatant rip of but it still would be funny
• Pamela Anderson - I don't care if she's part of the plot, or just there as scenery
• Ninjas always make movies better...
• Work in Tony Danza and an orangutan

Ten ways Jar Jar could die!

[Vinnie_333]

Ten ways Jar Jar could die that would leave me satisfied.

10. Doing the proverbial "stepping on a rake" routine with Anakin's Lightsaber and cutting himself in two - right up the middle.

9. Getting his tongue caught in an X-Wing during take off and getting his head ripped off.

8. Being thrown into the vacuum of space and exploding

7. Two words: Venereal Disease

6. Squished in the trash compactor from Ep IV

5. Sarlacc!

4. Obi Won just getting tired of him and, WHAM, decapitation with the lightsaber

3. Joe Pesci, for no explained reason, walks in stage and shoots him in the head.

2. Uma Thruman, for no explained reason, walks in stage and shoots him in the head.

1. Once again, for no explained reason, Jar Jar catches a foreign born bacteria that causes bleeding from the eyes, vomiting, and nightmarish diarrhea - until death!