Slashdot Mirror
Japanese Anime Industry In Danger Of Fragmentation
ChibiOne writes "The Asahi Shinbun has a story about the critical state that the Japanese animation industry currently faces, claiming: 'As merchandisers grow rich, the animation industry is losing jobs to cheaper labor abroad.' The article quotes Oh Production President Koichi Murata as saying: 'Unless something is done, Japanese anime will be ruined.' An animator, toiling away on cels in a tiny Tokyo studio, might be fortunate to pull in just 50,000 yen [about $500 USD] a month."
Didn't know Indians could do anime, too...
Is it a result of westernization of Japanese culture?
My character went abrouad and all I got was this...
Does this require an obligatory slashdot kudos of:
"Anime is dying!"
"In Soviet Russia, anime fragments YOU!"
Or something else?
* Caimlas misses the old trolls (OOG)
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Considering the enormous quantity of anime which can be downloaded for free on the internet, sometimes including very high quality fanmade subtitles.Maybe the independant Japanese animator could try to find a business model similar to that of the RIAA ?
Something like selling anime directly to the masses who can't wait to see the next episode, using the internet. Maybe he could make a small company with some of the fan translator.
The interest here would be once more to shorten the chain between producer and consumer. For everything which can be stored and transmitted on electronic medias, the internet still seems to be the best solution.
Anyone notice that a lot of the AMERICAN cartoons we like (Simpsons, Futurama, Family Guy, Clerks, and I believe Invader Zim) are all animated primarily by Korean animation farms? Also, I will take this opportunity to interject my worthless 2 cents about current anime: It sucks. I haven't seen a decent anime made after 1998.
When business wins over talent, the business fails and the talent eventually pops up again. Just remember what happened with Atari and its developer relations. Games were mass produced, programmers paid poorly, and cheap products were rushed to launch. This isn't so much of a danger to the anime industry as the landfills. Fortunately, anime merchandise is easier to dump than 4 million ET carts.
download games I make at: http://www.shippysite.com
Damn near all the fansubs I've been subjected to are a complete joke.
My Japanese language teacher from highschool used to let us watch anime brought in my students on fridays, and he always to laugh at how poor the translations were, even from the socalled "masters" like AniKraze.
It's mostly just wannabe Nihonjin with a year of class under their belt, a Japanese friend on AIM, and a pirated video editor.
I was a bad English student. I'm seriously cracking up at my bad typing.
Have a system similar to the old patronage system. Where artists (read: animator, recording artist, film director) set up websites where people can "donate" money to their next project. Once a predefined amount has been raised they go away an make the film/track/album/cartoon and put it up on the Internet for anyone to download. Those who don't have Internet access can buy a copied version from anyone willing to provide that service.
Those wishing to break into the industry need to make a name and fan base for themselves so that people will be happy to donate money.
I think this better exploits the tenants of capitalism than the current system of falsifying scarcity.
----
Anime die? HAHAHAH never.
:)
As long as wonderful talents like Hayao Miyazaki exist, great anime will exist.
No one does Anime like Japan (DUH)
I simply do not see it being outsourced to indians.
Look raise the prices of the stuff. Export it to other countries... bring more money in... and dont censor it
In other news this week - 2D Animation is DEAD!
Thats straight from Disney's board in this weeks business news.
Computer tweening and computer 3d is the future.
advocates use of outsourcing, begins downward spiral. Outsourcing is the exploitation of cheap labour. If the job is being done as well then the same wages are deserved, not just what the outsourcer can get away with. Meanwhile a fine entertainment media begins a not-so-slow death.
Was Spirited Away too mainstream for you?
Seriously, that's part of the problem. Animation is a very painstaking and laborious process and - popular though it is among some groups - Anime is a niche market outside Japan. Perhaps there is a need for films that reach out more to a mainstream demographic?
Where the hell can you live in Japan on 50K yen a month? When I lived in Okinawa, I think the cheapest rent on the island was about three times that.
50,000.00 JPY = 451.859 USD, about 5422.30 USD per year
per capita GDP is $28,700 (2002 est.)
factbook on japan
Matsumoto said one U.S. toy manufacturer offered his company about $10 million (about 1.1 billion yen) for the rights to market merchandise featuring the characters of an animated cartoon his company hadn't even completed. The figure was particularly eye-popping for Matsumoto because it was 100 times what animated films earn on average from broadcasting rights in Japan. - One has to wonder why their aren't any regulations regarding corperate responsibility and minimun wage laws on this matter.
It's worth pointing out that the people interviewed in the article who are complaining about the death of anime, are employed by production houses who work on the very family-friendly anime - and with specific reference to "Chibi Maruko-chan" there was a well-known legal case from the voice-actors last year, as they weren't being paid residuals. I suspect that the situation is rather different for companies which make otaku-friendly anime - and I [i]KNOW[/i] it's different for companies who work with NHK. Actually, it's the otaku-friendly anime, and bishoujo anime specifically, which is powering Japan's anime boom.
More like an Americanization of the once-legendary Japanese business ethic.
I saw a program about this on Japanese TV not so long ago.
The main problems with outsourcing animation is that the Koreans and Filipinos doing the animations are going to get better in these industries and create more competition for the Japanese animators themselves later on.
Even though this is the case, from what I've seen from Japanese schoolchildren with no formal art training in comic animation, there's no danger of Japan running out of creative talent.
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
Hmmm... Guess it's too bad that Miyazaki isn't doing any more films then, huh?
..from all those schoolgirl loving freaks..
This is not all that new. Japanese animation work (esp. inbetweening, cel painting) has always been outsourced to Korean and Chinese studios. Some of the threat has come from the fact that there are a shortage of _good_ animators and keyframers in Japan, and there is more demand for new Japanese animation right now that what Japan has the ability to output.
Also, Japanese animators have always been underpaid. Osamu Tezuka (the "father of manga") started his influencial animation studio within the ideal of producing cheap limited animation via underpaid animators. And it worked, and the industry was born.
Additional ranting:
Right now there are 130 (!!) new TV episodes airing in Japan every month. There are just not enough employees to produce that much animation w/o outsourcing some of the labor. But 90% of it is crap anyway (naruto, inuyasha, etc.etc). Who cares if that gets outsourced more and more. We'll still have quality animated works from studios such as Production-IG (Innocence) and Madhouse (Satoshi Kon movies) so what's the worry if those fast-made 100+ episode franchise series gets outsourced? Were they worth that much to begin with?
If animation is cheaper in Korea or China as the article suggests then Japanese animators will either have to compete at global prices or be out of jobs. It's a global market for jobs now and I'd suspect $500 a month is a pretty decent salary in China.
There is very little awesome anime compared to the junk. Perhaps now there will be more of a focus on getting good scripts and stories before letting some clone "demon warrior princess vs mechanical mega modrons of combined force" run.
We want more ghost in the shell and akira quality film and we want more ghost in the shell SAC quality TV series. For this I am willing to pay more money than I would for hollywood movies, so I am sure they will be able to support themselves finacially.
For the rest of the "awww" blushing cutesy anime, I couldn't care less if it was all flushed away except if it blocked the toilet.
As always, good scripts are the more important than anything else.
Are any of us Japanese? Why should we care about the Japanese Anime industry? So now China is making labor cheaper? Great. We get more Anime.
For industries like this outsourcing is good, outsourcing is only bad for high tech / high skill industries. Manual labor should be outsourced.
People don't exist to serve systems, systems exist to serve people.
Anyone can do this job and if any job should be outsourced its the anime industry. Theres billions of people in China, India, etc.
How is this good? If Anime movies become cheap enough to produce we all get cheaper movies with more access to them.
People don't exist to serve systems, systems exist to serve people.
Animation outsourcing is not new. Cel farms in Thailand and Indonesia have been well established for over a decade and have naturally matured into talented full-production houses that compete worldwide for all aspects of contracts.
I'm a little surprised that this article makes it sound like that aspect of global scene is just starting to impact Japan. Perhaps someone here that's actually in production could comment? I don't think we're getting the goods.
Can someone please explain what it is about Anime that makes people go ga-ga?
I just don't get it -- what am I missing?
It just looks like a caricatured cartoon to me.
Help!
Those d@mn over paid arogant japanese, with their big SUVs! Serves them right!
Oh wait...
(can you taste the sarcasm?)
I would rather be ashes than dust!
You act as if the entertainment industries are essential industries. Outsourcing is good for these industries because with P2P, the price from which anime DVDs or movies can be sold will go way way down. This is actually going to lower the price and increase the availibility of Anime to all the fans.
This has nothing to do with idealism. Outsourcing is good period because capitalism works on competition. Outsourcing is good and if you don't like it you can move to China.
People don't exist to serve systems, systems exist to serve people.
No one does Anime like Japan (DUH)
No one programs like Americans, hang on a minute...
Almost any of us could draw anime. You don't have to draw high quality detailed super realistic characters, you just have to draw a lot of cels.
Drawing the same character over and over becomes easier each time you do it, the same backrounds and the same stuff. I don't see a shortage in artists. I do think the style for Japanese anime might be a barrier but thats it.
People don't exist to serve systems, systems exist to serve people.
This is a valid answer to the question.
If all the money is in the USA you move to the USA. If all the jobs are in China you move to China.
People don't exist to serve systems, systems exist to serve people.
All of the money goes to the suits and none of the hardworking artists.
:) The workers dont see it.
Thats the problem. Its that simple. Pay the artists what they are worth, and stop ripping them off.
This problem has been happening forever here in America. It happens in teh game industry too. The voice talent get all of the money, the profits go to all of the suits, and the real talent behind the picture get pennies. The director is generally well paid but they dont make Mike Myres money folks.
So much for that trickle down economic bullshit if you ask me. When the rich make more profits... They simply make more profits
Thank you for stating the obvious. I guess you are trying to advertise your home country.
Don't worry, soon millions of Americans will be moving to China, trust me.
People don't exist to serve systems, systems exist to serve people.
I think outsourcing for high tech or high skill industries are bad because people invest their entire lives going to college and getting degrees. These arent the type of jobs that anyone can do and this is a matter of national security as well because a country generally should protect its high skilled knowledge producers. These people are the people who innovate, the same people who created the atomic bomb.
People don't exist to serve systems, systems exist to serve people.
No wait a sec. Programming isnt a reflection of a culture. Anime is. Japan's culture is unique to Anime. Another culture could never creat Anime like the Japanese unless they began to mimic it, but i find that hard to see.
Look at hollywood's lame ass attempt to steal HK action film style of shooting and stunts... Its just so lame.
Programming is a skills thing that isnt exactly tied to a culture.
no problem, if they're running windows, they can run "dfrg.msc" in the command prompt. Just be sure to run it on a regular basis to avoid disk fragmentation.
Read the article? say wha?
How do you know? The culture has very little to do with the ability to produce a good story with good animations. Also lets not forget they can always hire Japanese to create the story and just hire Chinese to create the graphics
People don't exist to serve systems, systems exist to serve people.
Patronage was a way that very rich individuals supported artists and received reflected social status in return. Often there were religious reasons at work also (pay for a church, receive salvation). Key to the system was that very rich *individuals* provided the financials and received the consequent glory. I don't think this would work so well with large groups making voluntary donations to a project.
I'm not saying that donations from the many can't work (although they probably won't, unless they are forced through taxation and government bequests to the arts) but just pointing out that this was most certainly not how patronage worked.
As inaccurate as ever :)
:P
Alot of aniem if not pretty much all of it has moved onto being done by PCs, it's much cheaper then cels and farfar easier.
--- [Insert intresting Sig here]
Imonna Live Forever!
if Takashi Murakami is "making a living" and a little more with the whole superflat revolution, selling paintings for well over 300,000 and more, then the problem is marketing or something.
disk defragmenter please -5 troll -5 not funny -5 off topic ___ -15 total
TETSUOOOO!
If you are a genius, and by that I mean an actual creator of fine art, you will always be in demand. Simply put anyone can rip off one idea, but if people want more, they'll come crawling back.
This article sounds more like the whining of an executive not getting his cut than the plight of the animator itself. I'm not saying that animators aren't being treated unfairly. I'm saying that the president of any company generally cares more about what's in his wallet than some paeon animator's.
Anyone following baseball should know the senario. If George Steinbrenner wants the city of New York to give anything to the Yankees he says, "Oh, if I don't get it, the cost of business will increase SO much that I'll have to move the team to New Jersey." Then he goes back to sleep on his bed of mint $10,000 bills.
Let's take a look at a key sentence in this article.
"Yet an animator, toiling away on cels in a tiny Tokyo studio, might be fortunate to pull in just 50,000 yen a month."
The important word here is "might." This implies that the author does not know what an animator makes. Without any sources for that figure other than a nameless 26 year-old animator, you have to conclude that the statement is at best suspect, at worst a lie.
From what I have read and heard about Japan, they face the same problem we have here. The cost of living is higher in Japan than in nearby countries. However, has cheap Mexican labor ruined CARS? No. Even the Fords made in the good old US of A will flip over and explode.
If Japanese production companies are so important to Anime, they can demand more money. Anime is far too lucrative to die out. What is more likely, however, is that these are Anime stripmines, churning out series like Harlequin churns out romance novels, or that these are just a bunch of guys who have a knack for tracing.
Like I said, maybe I'm wrong about the "Oh Productions" that the article speaks of, but you can't have it both ways. If you are the genius behind the anime, than you will be able to command the money. If you are just some guys who copy and color, then you are probably a dime a dozen in Japan and a dime for 2 dozen in Korea.
Either way, Anime itself is not ruined. At least, not by ink and paint jobs leaving Japan.
SW
If you weren't totally wrong, you might be right.
But have we got any other significant recent examples of this business model?
Stop the world; I need to get off.
The parent post's point is difficult to discern if you don't know that.
I'm going to assume that you all know what "sqm" means.
Stop the world; I need to get off.
Internet distribution could help the industry, but I suspect it won't help the animators. I suspect that Anime suffers from the same curse as does writing, music, photography, art and other creative endeavors -- too many people are willing to do it for free or at minimal pay. Outsourcing isn't too blame, although it contributes to the problem. If you look at the pitiful amounts that most newspapers, magazines, and book publishers pay, you will see that its is impossible to earn a decent wage in most creative work. Yes, some famous writers, photographers, artists, film makers, and musicians earn good money for creating the best of the best, but they are an exception. I'm not sure what drives this phenomenon but it could be the: 1) too many people are willing to work for pennies to see their name in print, 2) buyers (publishers/distributors) can't accurately judge quality/popularity so they refuse to pay, 3) perceptions that anyone can write/take photos/make music, so why pay much for it. The point is that its a buyers market in most creative businesses and that won't change with internet distribution.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
Before you know it, their cartoon characters will start having lips and noses...oh, the horror.
Is budget cuts the reason why we have 30-second-long scenes where the only thing moving on the screen is the lips of the character?
Or the reason why Rurouni Kenshin spends 5 episodes doing "powering up discussions" and then another 5 episodes jumping towards his enemy while exciting music plays in the background, and in the end you don't even see him slashing the ****ing opponent, because conveniently, "KENSHIN IS 2 FAST A SWORDSMAN 4 U 2 C!"
WTF!?
This move has a clear downside: it eliminates a whole class of entry-level jobs available to those who want to enter the industry.
Any thoughts on the disadvantages (or advantages) in terms of quality?
Stupid job ads, weird spam, occasional insight at
An animator, toiling away on cels in a tiny Tokyo studio, might be fortunate to pull in just 50,000 yen [about $500 USD] a month.
Seems like a good deal to me. With Anime, that's $250 per cel!
== Jez ==
Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
The article is saying artists' pay is decreasing at exactly the same time the films are making more money from merchandising.
Stupid job ads, weird spam, occasional insight at
As the story mentioned, in Suginami city, there are more than 60 animation studios
(almost 20% of the studios in Japan).
The city began strong support to animation studios, since Mr. Yamada, formerly a member of the Diet of Japan, became the mayor of Suginami 5 years ago.
Suginami animation festival (annual) and an education program for animators started.
There's some worry about governmental "interference", but I applaud the city's support so far.
Actually I don't agree :
Internet distribution can be set up by almost anyone with a minimal funding, while getting in a traditionnal distribution circuit costs a lot and requires a non trivial minimal volume.
If animators setup their own distribution channel on the internet, they will bypass the 'buyers' as you call them who can't accurately judge quality and popularity, and allow the market to directly rate and buy quality stuff. That is how internet distribution can help, not the industry, but the animators/creators, and that is the point of it.
Oh what a shame.
This is very bad..
I mean-500 USD? What is that? nothing! It's like a million slashdot pages! nothing again!
Gross...
Well, that's what you get for running your industry on FAT32.
This is a good. Let the grunt work go, then maybe keep some of the story design and character development.
Beats the alternative of completely offshore anime.
Face it, if the same basic product costs 1/10th if it is produced in a cheap country, people will likley buy that version. Many goods can't cover a cost difference of this magnitude. My only hope is that the market will adjust and this spread is something that we (expensive countries) can compete with.
How someone can defend themselves and their friends being paid vastly overblown salaries
Overblown on their part or sour grapes on yours?
Indian society places more emphasis on the importance of studies than American society - which favors athletic prowess
Yes, all those Ivy league schools threatening once again to sweep the NCAA championships across all sports. Damn them!
Want to get jobs back to the US? Lower the wages. For US IT professionals to demand comparatively high salaries almost demands their jobs are sent elsewhere
Just what do you think has happened in the post dot com bust? Salaries are only now starting to rise. Do you still know web developers who only know html (and only if they have a book in front of them) pulling down six figures? Do you know anyone who is a dba and yet can't write a simple query making that sort of cash? Sure, back in 97 and 98 there were all too many of that sort of situation. But today? Please!
Programming is a skills thing that isnt exactly tied to a culture
Maybe not, but the way I see a lot of people talking about it, you'd swear it was some kind of religion!
OK bad joke, I'll step down now...
Isn't it strange that the article spends a lot of time bemoaning the plight of the cel painter? Cel's are obsolete in modern anime, only a few companies (extremely cheap ones and Studio Ghibli) still use them. Almost all companies do their coloring on computer these days. It's possible they just kept the old terms for whatever reason, but somehow I wonder if this article isn't similar to one bemoaning the number of buggy whip manufactuerers going "overseas".
I read the internet for the articles.
Internet distribution can be set up by almost anyone with a minimal funding, while getting in a traditionnal distribution circuit costs a lot and requires a non trivial minimal volume.
If animators setup their own distribution channel on the internet, they will bypass the 'buyers' as you call them who can't accurately judge quality and popularity, and allow the market to directly rate and buy quality stuff. That is how internet distribution can help, not the industry, but the animators/creators, and that is the point of it
In theory, yes. But three issues mean that online distribution won't solve the problem.
First, most animators have neither the time, skills, nor interest to create their own distribution company. Instead, some people would become online distributors that handle the animators creations - these new distributors would become buyers -- creating the same old problems.
Second, online may have very low costs, but it also has very low revenues. The result is that, in the writing world, online publishers have much lower pay rates than do print publishers.
Third, the biggest unsolved problem is the winner-take-all syndrome. Would many people pay $1 to download a single film? Probably yes, but only if it was a "good" film. Although thousands of animators may be creating thousands of films, only few hundred become well-known each year (say 10%). Out of that hundred, only the top few 10s of films (1%) become really popular. Only the best-of-the-best (1%) make much money and that leaves 9% of films that may barely break-even and 90% films that dont make money at all. Better distribution won't change the limited attention span of people or their desire to only pay for the best-of-the-best.
I do agree with you that online distribution can bring anime to a wider audience at a lower cost point. But I still think that the industry will remain a buyer's market with too many animators competing for too few eyeballs.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
(*groan*)
The thing that really sucks is that Flash work has started to be outsourced, which is pretty devastating for those of us in other places who use (and make a living from) this medium.
Here's some links about Indian animation outsourcing. Many of them focus on how there's a lack of animators in the country, which aims to be a leader in outsourced animation production:
Padmalaya seeks 400 animators to execute new projects
Color Chips to Hike Headcount to 1,000
The Sky is the Limit!
Trained Talent Eludes Animation Industry
All links are pulled from the excellent animation blog Cartoon Brew
*sigh*
I really should just keep my fingers off the keyboard and get back to work, but I'm having a hard time letting this slide.
Let me at least try to turn this into an honest question rather than just a screed (my first instinct).
I don't believe the Japanese government has ever acknowledged ill treatment of the people of other countries during the 20th century (or did I miss an apology for the Korean "comfort women"?) Ok, that's no big surprise, I don't think the U.S. government has officially acknowledged poor treatment of Indians and slaves in this country, either. (Although, the U.S. government did officially apologize to Japanese-American citizens interned during WWII. I also think there were some reparation payments.)
However, American culture is chock full of acknowledgement of past injustices. Anybody living in America who hasn't heard of smallpox-infected blankets donated to Indians just isn't paying attention. American textbooks do make reference to these things (I remember seeing a picture in a textbook of an American soldier standing beside a pile of dead, frozen-solid Indians at Wounded Knee).
I have heard, on occasion, that Japanese schools and textbooks don't mention, for example, what was done at Nanking, or to subjects/victims of medical research conducted in foreign countries (or should I use quotes: "research").
So, here's my question, to which I would truly like an answer: Is there acknowledgement in Japanese culture of the Bad Things that were done by Japan (whether by the gov't, the military or the people I'll leave for later debate) in the 20th century? We hear so much about wonderful Japanese things, Zen philosophy and tea ceremonies and Shintoism and Go and aesthetics, but I have such a hard time reconciling all that beauty and nobility with things like beheading contests.
John.
(P.S. Please don't change the subject by accusing America of Bad Stuff. I acknowledge all that. My question is about Japanese culture.)
With respect to those people that have lost jobs due to outsourcing, it is generally considered good, because it will bring an economic balance between developed and under-developed economies. Of course, it will take many decades for this to happen, and the people that lost their jobs will suffer.
Of course globalization will work only if it has no real constraints. If a government puts taxes on imported goods, then globalization will not work.
Another important point is the price of goods. For example, an Anime product should cost less when produced in Korea instead of Japan. If the company that produces it does not lower the price for the domestic market though, globalization (and outsourcing) will not work.
Anime is a great entertainment and it gives unprecedented freedom over live action filming, with much less cost. It's helps turning one's fantasies to images without any limitations. I hope that the current and past Anime's quality is not lowered because of outsourcing.
Or lower it - Currently serieses like GitS:SaC are selling at $40-$60 per DVD, 3 eps per DVD, for a 26 epsiode series. Currently I can afford to buy one or two series a year - if the prices were halved, I would buy at *least* twice as much. Much like in the music industry, a big reason for buying pirated stuff is beause the genuine stuff is just too damned expensive.
I mod down anyone who says "I will be modded down for this", regardless of the rest of their comment
In my opinion ( this makes it non trolling and non flamebait as I am entitled to my free opinion, right moderators?), Anime sucks. Stupid storylines, not great artwork, bad animation, etc.. Most of it is probely lost in the translation. The english speaking voice actors do a horrible job. You know we the geeks here liek to rag on those who are fans of such uncool things such as NSYNC or Limp Biskit, but really the blind stupidity surrounding anime is even worse.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
The wages in the US are still ridiculously high. I'm not talking compared to the dotcom boom, but compared to the rest of the world for doing a similar job. That reason alone means jobs leave the US and go somewhere else. The US is effectively ripping off anyone who wants to get any IT work done.
It's not sour grapes on anyones part but all those whining about lost jobs. It was all fine and dandy when they were the ones revelling in the jobs, but as soon as they start to lose the "game", they start kicking up a fuss. That's selfish and childish, rolled into one.
Most IT is not difficult, yet the salaries say otherwise. Fix that, and everyone's jobs will be safer.
I think that anime is losing out to two things besides what was pointed out in the article. First, the decline in anime has coincided with the rise in the number of drama CDs which are spoken dramatisations of a manga or novel (and are not well known in the West for the obvious reasons that they are just spoken Japanese with a bit of music). Often they will act out the manga word for word. For niche series that in previous years would have been made into OAVs (direct to video) anime releases, many of them are made into drama CDs. Drama CDs are much cheaper than anime to make. Mangaka (manga authors) have been known to fund them out of their own pocket, even being able to hire big name seiyuu (voice actors). They are cheap and popular amongst the series' (Japanese) fanbase. I think seiyuu like them better than anime as well as they have more chance to actually act without worrying about things like timing.
The second thing is gaming. One thing I heard is that the anime industry is losing a lot of young artists to the gaming industry. I don't find that surprising as judging from their freetalks, a lot of mangaka at least seem to be big gamers, including the females (amongst females, Squaresoft games and RPGs seem to be esp. big). I imagine in the anime side this trend would be even more pronounced.
Finally a subject comes up that I am actually an expert on, and I realise how little most Slashdotters really know. But they'll still spout their misinformation like it's gospel truth. Is this the case for every subject discussed here, or is it just this one?
Good God. I've heard some stupid claims before, but this one's just the icing on the cake. I don't even want to acknowledge that I just read an article quoting some complete moron bitching about how anime will lose its hideous industrial manufactured look because other more intelligent companies have realized "wait, you mean there are artists outside of Japan that are at least as good?"
It's a clear ploy, if I ever saw one, to pretend this guy's little company has some sort of place as a pioneer. But here's the painful reality dude: If you stick with the sucky artists you have right now and pretend nobody exists outside your general area, you were doomed from the start, and posing as the holder of a meaningless 20-year tradition of Japanese animation (which was begun by artists using American techniques) is not, by a long-shot, going to save your dead-end company. I bid you a good pre-riddance.
I am NOT a number! I am a - oh wait, I'm number 761710. Look! 761710!
It's been a long while since I've watched any Anime. I was just glancing at the comments though. From what I remember about Anime that I liked the most: funny simple plots, big gaint robots, naked girls, organic super weapons and lots of violence. Which of those do you think the US audience really cares about?
On a side note, now that I'm married with 2 young kids, I can't fit a good time after they are asleep to watch any Anime. It'd have to be something that my wife would approve of, which means living out the naked girls and most likely the violence. This would live a movie very much like Spirited Away. I own that movie and hate it. The kids seem to like it though. I'm not going to buy movies like Spirited Away. I'll spend my money on Shrek and Finding Nemo, thank you very much.
Ok, fair enough. The only other comment I'll add is that while almost anyone can be taught to program, very few people have the mindset and skills necessary to be a good programmer--much in the same what that almost anyone can learn to play the piano, but very few are inherantly great musicians.
There's a very good reason for this that I haven't seen mentioned so far...
Hand-drawn animation has, largely, gone the way of the dodo in Japan. Its no surprise that those that do work on it exclusively are now getting paid peanuts, because their skills simply aren't in demand anymore. Most modern anime is mostly CG, and anything with a lot of action effects is going to be almost entirely CG.
CG artists, naturally, can pull down a hell of a lot more cash than animators specializing in hand-drawn cels. But they also tend to gravitate towards more "mature" animation, as that's where the money is these days - that's what American companies will pay big bucks for.
It won't happen primarily because a large percentage of series these days are funded in part or in full by foreign licensors.
Geneon USA has been putting up the funding for many series with their names in the credits. ADV Films is reputed to be partially funding the creation of several series, and entirely funding the creation of some others.
Many Japanese companies would be hesitant to sell their product online for so little, primarily because it reaks of low quality which isn't something they like to present when selling things to the public (R2 releases of many anime dvds are expensive but are often VERY nice.
That and having to spend $3 on stuff you burn to shit CDs and can't play on TV without sitting as TMPGenc re-encodes to (low quality) VCD sucks, when you can pay $20 (plus or minus) for 3-5 episodes on pressed DVD.
And while Hoshi no Koe was done by one guy, he did license it to both a Japanese company (which helped him put a professional dub track to it) and by ADV Films. You'll also notice it took him about 2-3 years or so to produce about 30-45 minutes of animation. While his effort cannot be put down in any way, it is definitely not the future for all things.
Just rent them, I have had no reason to see series more than twice with a couple of exceptions.
Berserk, Vandread, and the first 3 disks of the last exile are the only ones I have seen twice, all the other anime has been returned to the rental store without so much as a care.
If you don't vote, you don't matter, so don't waste your time telling me your opinion
:)
Yeah, I didn't want to cloud the issue by raising the possibility that it's just marketing, at least to some extent. A big part of it is Western buy-in, too. Greener grass and all that.
John.
A lot of our favorite toon-shows were animated in Korea. If I'm correct, these included the original G.I. Joe series, Gem, He-Man, the Snorks, and pretty much most of what was aired on Saturdays in the 80's. When I was in elementary school, I recall having wondered why there were goofy names sporadically mentioned in the credits of such cartoons. Then I realized I was Korean and that my name was goofy too.
This is true that animation is the result of westernization. Many people wonder why japanese anime characters all have common features such as large eyes. They mostly derive work from earlier work and one of the earliest and most popular you can get is astro boy.
It's origins are based of what the designers saw from Disney Cartoons. Donald Duck, Mickey Mouse, etc. They all have large eyes and similar features you might notice in japanese animation.
In a result, it's derived from western culture. And like most things in Japan, post WWII, adopted and morphed with the culture producing a somewhat unique outcome.
Although the artwork's fun to look at, it's often the story line and the twists that seems odd outside of Japan that seems to intrigue most people. If you ask any enthusiast they will attest to that.
get modded up as insightful
btw they RIAA doesn't do anything special, their business model is to sue people and then hope they settle out of court for the $3k extortion fee
luckily there are people fighting these lawsuits but they have deep pockets
the next time you think to yourself "gee i wish i could have a business model like the RIAA" remember that is the equivalent of wanting to live in a digital Stalin's russia and then starve yourself to death accordingly and spare the rest of hte world
"...toiling away on cels..." Please. There's a REASON you can't make any money doing that anymore. Most anime is digitally animated. Sure, maybe most of the lineart is hand drawn, but then it goes into the computer, gets digitally 'inked' then colored... Hell, most anime these days contain insane amounts of CG (Most of which, contrary to the popular response of "Pfft....cg" YOU CAN NOT TELL IS CG.) I mean...damn. Something on the order of 1 out of 5 currently running shows is animated by Gonzo|Digimation anyway....
Friend: "The NIC is misconfigured..." Me: "No prob, I'll just telnet in and fix it." *Silence*
The anime industry in Japan has mostly moved away from cels to to computer-based animation. Only a few legacy shows, like Chibi Maruko-chan or Sazae-san (which has been running since the 60s, I think) still use cels. Most new shows are of the digital ink-and-paint variety and many also feature a lot of 3D CGI assist. 5 years ago this was not so true, but practically every show made in the last 2 years is almost entirely digital.
This has stemmed the flood of outsourcing to a small leak. Almost any show you watch has a batch of Korean names in the end credits, but it's still mostly japanese. And all the top jobs are still held by japanese animators.
I know someone who was a former animator, ran a small studio in the late 90s, and was later a consultant for a DIP software company (Animo). One thing he said sparked the changeover was this: In order to make sure that work farmed out to studio XYZ in Korea matched the next scene farmed out to studio ABC in Thailand, the industry created a standard set of colors for cel paint. Being a relatively small industry, this led to one company making all the cel paint for everyone. A small, old, established company that had been doing it forever. And an old man who had been doing the job of master pigment mixer forever, having things his way, etc. Well, one day he, the only guy who really knew how to mix all the colors, had a heart attack and the industry realized their livlihood rested on the health of some crotchety old man at the paint company. Most studios switched over to digital within a year. ^_^
I've built up so much character I have an alter-ego
the word KIRETSU CAME FROM RIGHT?
/. reader is getting insanely myopic and embarassingly ignorant
i swear to fucking god this week has been either a troll fiesta or the average
Japan is *totally* controlled by big business, they dictate every aspect of life; try reading some books instead of listening to your highschool friends.
They're also one of hte strictest socities on Earth, notoriously cut-throat in teh schooling to get them ready for the same pace at work where their jobs dictate everything from making them do calestenics in teh morning to being forced to out drinking wth teh boss at night
this s a country that doesn't allow PUBES IN PORNO
maybe by not overbearing you meant they're not overtly raping and torturing people like hussein's iraq (although they probably do it in secret like hteir US allies)
...to get some tips on surviving, if not thriving, in the face of foreign competition. :-/
BTW, notice that this tends to support the old argument that the business climates of trading partners tend to equalize in the long run. That doesn't help you buy bread in the short run but it's something to think about while shouting that dirty foreigners are stealing our jobs.
motto of the "the nail that sticks up highest gets hammered down first"
the reason why there even is anime/hentai at all is becuase the japanese are so insanely socially repressive that people needed an outlet
they are also allowed to go into public centers and be unruly but only during set hours.
in japan someone killing someone while you are drunk is rarely prosecuted, only a society pushed to the brink would allow that kind of ingrained escapism.
notice how the opposite is true in America, here everyone pretends to be happy all the time which is funny when it directly contradicts mass polling that clearly shows us as being one of the most miserable nations on earth, and with the higest work hours (the average american works 300 more hours a year than the average japanese, think about that)
Agreed there. But it's also running a bit long. Last time I checked the net there were about 130 eps and I'm sure that number has grown since.
And look at the price outside of Japan... here's a sample from the yahoo anime nation store
OK, so that's $24.48 for three episodes. So 130 / 3 = 43. And 43x$24.48=$1052.64
Yes indeedy, over a grand for 130 episodes... and I'll bet there are more.
Now throw into the equation that many places sell what *look* to be legit boxed copies, and turn out to be illegal lower-quality copies or perhaps fansubs.
Inu is an awesome series, but I'm not sure it's $1500 to me or most people...
Or as we call them, the "constipation" episodes.
I swear they look like they're trying to crap the mother of all turds during the power up episodes.
Or you could watch it on cartoon network for.. well, your already-paid cable bill.
And, for the record, the inuyasha dvds are more expensive in japan.
no
Naw dude. its the story thats the real draw.
The Tits and Outfits are mearly the candy.
I don't subscribe to cable. Were there a decent anime station I might, but I like mine pure "uncensored, and subbed not dubbed"
However, if DVD's are truely so expensive in Japan, it just proves that there is definately a lot of money in the industry, and that it's probably the allocation that is going awry (aka somebody is greedy)
This is the usual marxian regurgitation and one that doesn't take into account that the "workers" negotiate the exchange in value for delivering whatever skill or experience that has a value to "the rich".
While realizing the basic truth in that, what you obviously crave is the circumstance in which some elitist, unnamed, monolithic entity does something that you can't do on your own; Stupidly trying to screw "the rich" to your betterment.
To sum up - "The rich" don't stay that way by being stupid and you're obviously not wealthy.
Mod me troll, if you must, I can't help it.
When people start talking about outsourcing, there is always someone with the attitude, "that's just good capitalism. If you like capitalism, then as a matter of intellectual honesty, you must like (or at least accept) outsourcing."
However, its not that simple.
When America was originally founded, it was not a world power. It made itself into a world power by having a free market. Each industry had many different small to medium-sized players who competed in quality of product, customer service, price, advertising, etc. This system greatly benefited everyone involved (in fact 80% of Americans were self-employed, and earned good livings that way). This is a fine example of "good capitalism."
However, as the major corporations started forming their monopolies and their cartels, the market stopped being free, and became controlled. The net result was a severe reduction of the middle class. Suddenly, the poor had a much more difficult time earning a living, and a much more difficult time climbing their way up into the middle class. The gulf just became too big to jump.
This is what happens once a market becomes controlled. This is why the government has anti monopoly and anti-trust laws in place (though they are not being enforced very well).
This is not "good capitalism" but merely "profiteering." It is bad for the free market, bad for the economy, bad for most of the population, and good for the very few who are rich and powerful.
"Outsourcing" is just one of the many side-effects of a controlled market. Small and medium-sized businesses don't save much by outsourcing, whereas huge corporations do. This trend further leaves the skilled laborers at home without jobs. They can't all move up into corporate positions, because there are very few (small number of companies with huge market capitalization). The net result is an even larger poor class, smaller middle class, more crime, and less opportunity.
If the government cared about the well-being of most of its citizens, it would do more to prevent this sort of industry-domination (that is to say, work harder at the trust-busting and the breaking up of monopolies). Voting into office those people who are themselves controllers of huge corporations/cartels is probably not very wise, in this case.
There have been no space dramas for a long time. I mean, things like the original Macross series, Legend of Galactic Heroes, etc.
and Inuyasha is shown on broadcast television in Japan too. Anyways,
Inuyasha is the perfect example of a series with limited, quick & dirty animation. It's outsourced all over the place to several studios -- all mass-producing Inuyasha episodes simultaneously in order to keep up with the hectic TV schedule. And these studios are simultaneously working on episodes for _other_ series too. That is the most common way lengthy anime series are produced. Production of this type of series is hectic and corners are cut all the time in order to meet deadlines and save costs. Usually 3 to 6 "genga" (pencil drafting) studios will be working on the same TV series. And as usual, in-betweening and coloring work is outsourced to Chinese and Korean studios.
To see an illustrated example, check out / download the OAV "Animation Runner Kuromi 2" (go google for torrents), about a girl trying to keep a small animation studio together while they deal with producers while rushing to meet deadlines for 3 simultaneous series.
Actually, I can not think of one cel animated show that is currently running. Inu Yasha, the last one I knew of, switched to digital ink at around episode 100. Cels are the way of the past, unfortunately. Being a cel collector, it's somewhat sad to know that I'll never see a cel from a new series that I might like. Take a minute, and browse www.rubberslug.com's galleries, if only to see some amazing cels from the height of the hand painted animation era.
The only areas that can compete with Japan on the creative side of things are the United States and Europe. "The Triplets of Bellville," aka "Bellville Rendezvous" was a staggering accomplishment out of France, and so is the show known in the US as "Totally Spies."
In the US, "Teen Titans" is totally conceived of and posed out over here then sent to Korea and Taiwan. Yes, they overdo it with Manga cliches sometimes (they are more dependent on the visual vocabulary even than most Japanese shows) but it is by and large an entertaining series, certainly the best action show to come out of the US since the original "Batman: The Animated Series."
The labor-intensive stuff has always been sent overseas...it's been the MO since the '60s. It's been like this not only in the US but also in Japan. Take a look at "Animation Runner Kuromi" sometime. It's not a great OAV, but it has a lot of insight as to the similarities and differences between the Japanese method of animation production and the US method of animation production. Both have one main thing in common: once the layouts (key-frames, poses) are done, the layouts, storyboards and so on are sent to South Korea, Taiwan, the PRC or The Phillipines for inbetweening (plussing) and occasionally still ink and paint and photography.
The Japanese differ from the US in that the first thing that is produced on a US show is the "track" (taped dialogue) and in Japan the "track" is the last thing done along with music and sound effects. This difference I chalk up to the divergent influences on Japanese as opposed to US animation. Tezuka Osamu, the Kami-sama of anime and the person who came up with a lot of the production methods used in Japan today was heavily influenced by the Fleischer Brothers. Character Design theories, the recording of a soundtrack *after* the animation is finished, even the way pegbars are oriented all come from the Fleischer Studio's production methods.
The big influence on US animation was Termite Terrace, the original Warner Bros Animation facility. Familiar methods like the audio soundtrack being laid down first, pegbars at the bottom of the page rather than the top, and the critical importance of the storyboard are all Warner Bros production methods. Disney used a similar system too, but Disney was not as big of an influence outside its buildings than WB was. MGM's animation unit also relied on WB theories. Hanna, Barbera, Freleng, Avery, Clampett...all these people went on to basically invent the US TV animation industry in the 1960s.
The labor intensive parts of animation will always go to the lowest bidder. Japan's strength is in its creative talent, which has a potent "farm club" in the Manga industry and even draws on the producers of fan-produced "Doujinshi" for future talent.
One thing that's interesting: more animation is being produced from start to finish in America now than at any time since the '50s. South Park is not farmed out to overseas production houses because it's 100% created in Maya with 2D "cut-outs" created in 3D software. The Williams Street series that are the backbone of Adult Swim are 100% done domestically. And Camp Chaos, the Flash geniuses behind "Napster Bad!" are now doing a Flash animated series for VH1, Ill-ustrated.
As long as the talent pipeline continues to flow, Japan will have no shortage of good series. It makes no big different who's drawing the layouts or "plussing out" the show...it's all about the creativity.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
Yes, all those Ivy league schools threatening once again to sweep the NCAA championships across all sports. Damn them!
I don't know about all sports, but Ivy league basketball was doing a bang-up job.
I'd agree with you for the most part but the swipe at AniKraze (and groups that work just as hard) was a bit off. Granted, fansubbers don't get paid. A few elite groups deserve all the credit in the world when their translators read up on the manga to get all the names/terms/subtleties straightened out beforehand. Some will even put more thorough explanations or glossaries online. It doesn't sound like much but it helps with understanding some of the shows that are thick on terminology.
With some of the more popular shows that are translated by different groups, it's always interesting to watch them side by side and compare their subtitles. The general meaning is usually there but even with the best groups, they don't always agree on the most efficient way to layout the flow or sentence structure. Since there are a handful of people working on a particular release, a lot of it reflects on the individual tastes of editors and script checkers. Not just the translator(s).
Just my two cents.
all Japanese media (games, DVDs, anime) is relatively expensive. Check out the DVD movies (and especially the anime OAVs) at cdjapan.co.jp
...per episode!!
most people say this is because of the exchange rate, cost of living, and that the industry is swamped with middlemen driving up the price of the average media disc. For anime OAVs such as FLCL or Kenshin OAV (known as "Samurai X: Trust & Betrayal" here) their only source of income comes from video sales. They were originally sold for $40-$70 dollars
A critical state is always percieved as a collapse, when it's usually more of a change, from one state to another.
This sort of change is painful and alarming to be sure, but rarely turns out to be as destructive or harmful as first imagined to be by those clinging to the first state and bracing for the impact of the second state.
The Japanese will always be the trend-setter in terms of quality storytelling in anime. It's now up to them to keep raising the bar higher, forcing others to follow. If they stay true to their original vision, they'll be fine.
**>>BELCH
They don't let black people into harvard, do they?
-I like my women like I like my tea: green-
Are the giant fighting robots finally going to get along?
I'd have to say that Japanese anime has been on a downward track for quite a while. A few dedicated artists are maintaining the high road, but much of what gets played on TVTokyo is slapped together art with so-so dialogue and a few formulas (robots, girls in school uniforms, that kind of thing). The demand, both in Japan, in the US, and throughout the world, for anime has created a market that will buy drivel -- making it much harder to find the real quality pieces.
BTW, that artist making 50,000 yen is like the artists at Disney - he is typically not the one who originated the characters, setting, or story. He simply draws and fills in based on original art. These are the slightly better than minimum wage drudges. The scripter and original artist do make better money.
I was taking one day at a time, but then several days got together and ambushed me. (from a Rhymes with Orange comic)
Umm...if you don't know about other people, let me fill you in. Other people have spent a whole lot of money on their own education, only to be earning nearly nothing as their jobs were shipped overseas. Other people have been working damn hard their entire lives only to die with nothing.
Life isn't fair, and it isn't easy. I have no answer for this other than to suck it up and look to some other endevour where you can earn money. If I lost my powerplant job, there's at least two or three ways I know I can make as much money. Of course, I'm willing to bust ass and be creative instead of whining about my misfortune.
You were asking where Bill Gates's and your money came from? That's where the fuck you stole it from, you fucking leech.
You still don't get it. A tremendous amount of wealth had to be created for us to live like we do today in so many numbers. That wealth creation continues today.
As for medical insurance being the rule since great depression, this is true enough. Medical insurance incidentally got it's start because of government meddling in wages. The more government gets involved in the way medical care is payed for, the more it fouls it up. Right now in the US it's still largely a private enterprise, and you can get medical care, though it's expensive. Better than not getting it all for free until it's too late (witness the months long waiting lists in socialized medicince countries.
Yes, the world would be hundreds of billions of dollars poorer if no one did what Bill Gates did. I don't worship him, just use him as an example. His software makes people more productive. True enough, if he didn't do it, someone else would have (and would have become just as wealthy), but if no one did it, the world would be measurably poorer for it. It's rather simple- the Office suites and the like allow people to do more work- ie, create more wealth- in a shorter time period. Is that such a hard concept to grasp?
If someone else did my work- and I have about 40 peers at my plant who do the same thing I do- they would be paid just as well. I am admittedly part of a large enterprise.
Likewise, if no one did my work then there would be less electricity to go around, which would raise it's price, which would leave less money for profit. And wether the owners or the workers would profit less, either of them would eventually spend the money, so the more expensive electricity would mean that much less money circulating freely in our economy. These aren't hard concepts to grasp, why do you struggle with them so?
As for communists not being welcome in the United States- it might have been better put that your ideal is the antithesis of what made the United States what it is today, and should your ideal triumph, it would mean your precious mayflower ancestors and the framers of our nation put in all that effort for naught. So if you really believe what you say, then emmigrate to Europe where that kind of thought is welcome and commonplace. We certainly don't need any more of it fouling things up here.
Incidentally, I don't give a shit about your ancestors. Your ideals, implement, are causing the economic ruin of Europe, and would do the same here.
You can work for the American Dream. But the keywords are YOU and WORK. You are not to steal it from people who work smarter, harder, or otherwise more productively than you. You are not to steal it from people who expertly manage the efforts of others to gain wealth for themselves while paying their employees.
As for FDR- how's that war on poverty he started going along?
And for feudalism and nepotism- some people are indeed born into advantagous positions. Those who weren't, such as myself, had to work to put themselves in an advantegous position.
Having come from a very modest background, I have no sympathy for those who would use their less than perfect birth circumstances as an alibi for their failure. Success is hard, and you must prove your worth every day. Bein
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
Right on the money, esp. with regard to Lupin and Sazae-san being all that older people watch. Although a distressing amount of 20-somethings are fond of Dragonball...
/me flees
Most people don't even know what Ghost in the Shell is over there. Not that I do... uh...
Its like any other media endeavour. The talent that is actually most directly responsible for creating the product gets a very small chunk of the pie.
For animation, the publishers get the money.
For videogames, the publishers get the money.
For books, the publishers get the money.
For music, the publishers get the money most of the time.
The only exception is for movies and for music, where the stars get a big chunk of money. But that is because a singer is always directly associated with the song, and can choose not to sing so no one gets any money.
TV and Movies (moreso for TV though), a particular actor usually comes to be known for the character and can destroy the endeavour by not co-operating.
And the same happens with authors, though they need to hit it big before they can get a reasonable deal.
Animation and videogames are more collaborative though, and one person is not able to just pull the plug on the deal as above.
You will not get paid adequately for your services if your reasonably replaceible, or of the publisher can do the deal without you.
END COMMUNICATION
Trolls? Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, meet pot.
Yes, Japan's government is owned by big business.
As for "strictness", your examples are "cut-throat schooling", which, I confess, I don't really understand. Japanese schools are not based on a bell curve. If everyone does well on an exam, everyone does well. There is no competition between students, except in the case of high school entrance and college entrance exams. I fail to see what is cutthroat.
As for getting them ready for the same pace at work blah blah blah stuff from books about Japan written in the 1980s...You recommended reading some books instead of listening to high school friends. I recommend talking to an actual Japanese person, or visiting Japan, instead of using 20 year old information.
I work in the granddaddy of Japanese companies. We have no calisthenics. We have no enforced drinking with the boss. The most draconic thing is that we have to wear suits, even though we don't meet with clients. That's it.
And as far as outside of the company, there is a lot more freedom here in Japan than I ever experienced in the US. Talking to other Americans living here, the feeling is apparently fairly common.
National motto? Since when?
Unruly during set hours? Since when?
Drunk killings rarely prosecuted? Since when?
I've lived in Japan for a third of my life, but this is all news to me.
You'll pardon me if I'm a wee bit skeptical.
You do realize, that by rigging the price, you'll simply make it uneconomic to broadcast anime at all? The market may be depressed, but your "reform" would "help" it like a bullet to the head.
That is by the way exactly the same as what minimum-wage laws (and other imposed expenses of employee hiring) do. They set a cutoff, below which it's simply not profitable to employ someone.
The laws of the market are as unbreakable as the laws of physics.
think of the Tentacle Rape Demons!
No this wrong. Miyazaki based Totoro on his childhood exp which is late 40s and 50s. Read some books on Miyazaki but don't assume something you don't know for fact.
They should use HFS+.
A few dedicated artists are maintaining the high road, but much of what gets played on TVTokyo is slapped together art with so-so dialogue and a few formulas (robots, girls in school uniforms, that kind of thing).
How is this different from ten years ago? The good stuff has always been buried among an abundance of cruft.
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
Fragmentation is not a problem...just tell the japanese anime companies to boot their windows machines, open up a command prompt and execute defrag.exe.
All will be well after that. Now this was simple wasn't it...the simple life !
Since forever. Hell, I've seen Japanese managers tell it to gaijin workers simply as friendly advice.
Since forever. During the working day, you keep your head down and you do as your told. Then, after hours, you go out for drinks with the boss, and you're officially allowed to get 'drunk,' say bad things about them, and make an asshole of yourself. The next day, nothing will be said of it.
This, I have no knowledge of.
Living in Japan is different from living Japan.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
You're right, the competition isn't between students. The high-school exams, however, affect which college/university/whatever you wind up in, which will wind up affecting your carrier options, your social standing, and a bunch of other things. They call it 'exam hell' and have a high suicide rate for a reason.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
I think you know what I'm talking about.
There have been 3 really really poorly done
ones, and those were done in cheap knockoff studios.
People see the quality and they REALLY hate it.
So I don't think the industry is in danger, unless
foreign competition gets better, which will be a while.
Yes. The exam system is cutthroat. The educational system itself is not. At best, we can say it's preparation for a cutthroat system, but that's no different from high schools in any country that I know of. High school students in America don't get into MIT on good intentions, they get in with good grades and hard work in high school. The same is true in Japan.
What I will concede is that Japan adds another level by having this happen first at high school entrance.
And while exam hell is hell, that does not mean that school is cutthroat. Entrance exams are cutthroat. School is just fucking hard.
Wages are not that high when compared to the cost of living. I think rent is a lot cheaper, not only in India, but in most other countries as well. We even have the most expensive city in the world: NYC, with higher rents than Tokyo, London, and Hong Kong. That and the huge difference in the cost of a university degree are the only parts that aren't "fair".
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
National motto? Since when?
Since forever. Hell, I've seen Japanese managers tell it to gaijin workers simply as friendly advice.
Hell, even as a non-Japanese, I'd tell it to gaijin workers, because so many of them seem to think that being obnoxious is a positive trait. The nail that sticks out is not hammered down; the asshole is.
Unruly during set hours? Since when?
Since forever. During the working day, you keep your head down and you do as your told. Then, after hours, you go out for drinks with the boss, and you're officially allowed to get 'drunk,' say bad things about them, and make an asshole of yourself. The next day, nothing will be said of it.
I think I sense where these comments are coming from. What people may forget is that Japan has changed a LOT since the bubble burst. All the stuff you say was once very, very true. However, now they only really apply to seishain (people who work directly for the companies they work at). People who work for a company directly. Fact of the matter is, though, that this type of employment is no longer the rule. Many many young people now work as independent contractors / subcontractors, and don't get subjected to the same deal.
Living in Japan is different from living Japan.
Well, if living here 10 years, working in a high school for three of those, and a major Japanese company for the rest, having friends from university working at a variety of completely different companies, having friends met at clubs and other (non-Roppongi) recreational places, and knowing friends of friends of further friends, none of whom (with one exception) face this 1980's Japanese nightmare, is not enough to see the real Japan, then we're talking about a real Japan so small that it isn't worth it to discuss. We may as well say that in America women stay home and birth babies, while the blacks sit in the back of the bus and dad smokes a pipe, and if you see anything else, you're not seeing the real America.
On a side note, it's interesting to note that, while I say "these things don't happen", what I really mean is "these things don't happen any more than they do in America" (it's the only place I'm knowledgable to compare). Sure, the nail that sticks up gets hammered down sometimes. The same is true in American companies. Sure, you can't talk smack about your boss to his face and expect work to go smoothly. But you can't in America either. In the 1980's, these were taken to extremes (I gather. I wasn't living here then, so my knowledge of the period comes from textbooks). But now they are reduced to a sane level. Hell, at least in a very traditional Japanese company, you can call your boss a dickwad if you're plastered. Try doing that in America and still getting your next promotion.
notice how the opposite is true in America, here everyone pretends to be happy all the time
Actually the Japanese are far more likely to act happy and cheerful even when they are not.
clearly shows us as being one of the most miserable nations on earth, and with the higest work hours
The average Japanese works far more hours than the average American. It seems like every Japanese person I have met works 12-16+ hours 5 days a week. And that is not even including the semi-mandatory after work socializing. At first it seemed like Japanese wages were very high. Then I noticed their working hours.
Just say no to drugs or at least don't post to slashdot while you are on them.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
As I understand it, the pricing is NOT because of cost of living, exchange rate or any of those things. It's because, normally, people don't buy DVDs there. They rent them. Here in the US, prior to DVDs, the first few months of VHS release the tape would cost $40-$70 (sometimes more). The only folks who would buy it were video rental stores. Then once the video rental market had been tapped out the studios would release a retail version of the same video with the pricing we expect.
As I understand it, one of the major changes recently in the Japanese market is the introduction of reasonably priced media. IIRC this was introduced by Disney (who has a deal with Ghibli). Most production companies don't seem to have gone this way yet, but I'm sure they have an eye on the Disney/Ghibli experiment.
Mind you, OVAs aren't going to be priced this way since they have to make pretty much all of their money through sales to fans and to video rental stores. (For instance, the episodes of the third Tenchi Muyou OVA sell for just over 4000 yen.)
As an American animator, all I can really say to this is "Welcome to the club, guys."
There was a period in the post-Lion King boom when animators were being paid like movie stars, Dreamworks and Warners and Fox were opening feature studios and creating competition for wages and lots of jobs. Things were good. Then everyone, including the Mouse, sabotaged themselves by just trying to duplicate Lion King over and over.
There are next to no feature animation jobs any more. There's Pixar's new 2D studio and there's Legacy. I think Dreamworks still has something in the pipe. 2D has been claimed dead by the executives because they killed it with endless meddling and second-guessing. 3D isn't the salvation - does anyone remember Disney's all-3D Dinosaur? - it's just the medium Pixar used to bring their well-crafted stories to life.
The only drawn animation jobs in the States are in TV cartoons, and it's only about 20 people per show - directors, character designers, storyboarders. The show goes out to who-knows-where. Canada, if you're lucky.
Flash production was a hope for about one year. It was going to let us make shows in-house, let animators actually pay their bills doing something like what they loved, because "flash is cheaper". Well... no. Now you just have the option of making an even cheaper show by shipping the work out of the States, to a place that uses Flash. Again, if you're lucky, you get a Canadian house to do the work - less communication problems, a common culture of what's seen as "good animation". It probably goes out to the Phillippines in most cases.
Programmers aren't the only people being fucked up the ass by "globalization". Animators have been screwed by it since, oh, the late sixties, before the fields most Slashdotters work in even existed.
egypt urnash minimal art.
So the US is ripping off anyone who wants to get any IT work done when the people who want that work done are all being paid far higher salaries than the US IT workers, and the same amount of money that allows you to live like a king overseas is barely enough for food and rent in the US? Yes, complaining about that is about as selfish and childish as whining about how the US is an evil empire that abuses the world's poor, while inviting US companies into your country to bring jobs and run the economy.
> Look raise the prices of the stuff. Export it to other countries... bring more money in... and dont censor it :)
You obviously have never seen a japanese-released anime DVD. The average cost for a single 30-minute video release is about US$60-80 (depending on company). Compiled TV series cost about $50 for 4 half hour episodes. I consider US prices to be hilariously cheap by comparison. And even then I hear people complaining and rather wanting to download DVD rips because of the "huge cost" of local releases.
The censoring bit is not something the studios can do anything about. If the adult video industry in Japan hasn't been able to get that law overturned, it ain't gonna be done by the animators, who are far fewer.
Heh, I also hated the series- waste of times, maybe except 1 or 2 episodes. But I absolutely loved the OVA. The action scenes are 100x better and look soo much more real. No 'powering up discusions' at all. Animation quality is some of the best I've seen. And hmm, well, it was the best love story I've seen in a movie, animated or not. And I used to hate love stories.
--Coder
I think its time to inject some actual real-life "reason" into this argument.
The reason that two people (as we can clearly see here) can feel so passionately about seemingly opposite viewpoints is simply that there is no right answer here. This is the same problem with arguments of Good Versus Evil.
You can't conclusively decide which type of economy is best - and actually, it doesn't matter - real people, walking around talking with one another, naturally organize into groups that defend themselves from one another. In other words, Humans don't need a "political system" - we automatically generate one every time we meet someone.
Even in the darkest ages of feudalism, there were exceptions to the rules - once and a while, a serf would be given a higher status, or a noble would step out of character and help his constituants.
Sure, it doesn't happen often, but guys like Bill Gates don't happen too often, either.
I guess I agree with both posts at different points. But ideals aside, real world politics are decided person to person, face to face.
In that kind of an environment, there is always a chance for uncommon success or failure.
I just don't get it -- what am I missing?
In north america, there is this really anoying idea that cartoons are for kids. The result is that most cartoon aired are... for kids.
The way i understand it, in Japan, cartooning ( called "manga" ) is more than just popular, they actually use more paper for this than newspapers.
This is reflected in TV or cinema content. US has Hollywood, Japan has anime.
It's like for every TV series that exist on TV in the US ( soap, mini-series, movies... ) there is an anime equivalent in Japan. Soap opera? Anime soap exist. Action? Anime action. Etc. The result is an extremly wide variety. Several of them are extremely well made. But like "live" TV, only a few are outstanding. Given the fact that anime have no special effect limits, and that several anime series do ends. It's like watching a 5 hours long movie.
If you really want to see what anime is all about, do the same as with any other movies or novels: Find some whose subject match your taste and try them.
Note: I would NOT recommand Evangelion, FLCL, Lain or Cowbow Beboop to someone trying out anime for the first time. It would be like watching the first DUNE movie as an example of Sci-Fi genre. ( Of course, with no prior knowledge of the Dune novels. ) Starwars would be better for a first timer.
Concerning the subject title of this post, I am both.
Let me explain.
I have right now well over a megabyte of (Visual) C(++) code bits available I can use to write programs with.
I personally wrote a sizable bit of it using the most obvious, straightforward techniques to code it. For example, here is my file copy function I use when I need it:
As you can see the code is simple, straightforward, and will fail gracefully with an error code should that occur. When I need a file copy function, I just drop this into the source code and use a function call to it like so:
The rest I found on the web and adapted for my uses.
The latest, most memorable bit I got from Google Groups(Usenet) was to help solve an important programming problem I had at the time. One guy posted half a page of code to solve the problem. Another guy replied with TWO LINES OF CODE that did the same thing. I took the two lines and added a 6 other lines to it that were needed and had the solution function to my problem.
Albert Einstein is quoted as saying "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." The 'Keep It Simple Stupid' is paramount in my software coding. Many a time I had to go back and tweak and enhance code I wrote some time before. If I had made things more complicated when I first wrote it, it would have been disastrous for me.
At this point, a codemonkey could take these bits of code and 'cut and paste' together a working application as the code is known and available for use.
But what to do when you need source code that isn't written yet.
The smart thing to do is to use existing code to create the new software tools you need. This is something I've done plenty of times in the past.
But then there are times you have to write code from scratch.
For that, you have to approach the codewriting task as an artisan seeking the best, most elegant solution to the problem at hand. You have to give long and careful thought to the problem to come up with the best solution. I hold off writing the actual code as long as possible as I write 'notes to myself' as source code coments. I use these notes later as a guide to write the actual code by thinking about the actual source code statemets themselves and typing them in.
No preplaning at this low a level.
No flowcharts.
No writeups (that could be done from my notes if needed).
Even at this level, keeping it simple is still the order of the day.
I find myself writing the code in one spot of a function and adding in variables at the top of the function as needed. A great help to this is
using a handf
No time-wasting....just brutal, wonderfully animated battle scenes. Perfect pacing, drama, and a touching love story.
In fact, you may then approach the original TV episodes differently, since you now have background informaton on the events presented to you in such detail, and with such clarity.
Shinsengumi de gozaru
I'm not having a go at anyone, just the fact that most Americans go on about how they're not paid overblown wages, yet are when compared to the rest of the world (cost of living included).
True, but the same goes for most of the workforce that are losing their jobs to India - it's not as if bright, gifted US programmers are being replaced by dumb Indian programmers. Like is being replaced by like, but for less money (which is why it's happening).
Sure, but in America, they're as likely to say 'the squeaky wheel gets the grease;' in other words, the exact opposite concept.
And yes, you're right; America is moving towards 'nail' status, and Japan is moving towards 'squeaky wheel' status.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Agreed.