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How Much Are You Paying For Electronics Labels?
An anonymous reader writes "Interesting article on CNET about different consumer electronics brands selling identical OEM products, often at wildly different price points. The author also examines the phenomenon of manufacturers releasing "consumer" and "industrial" versions of the same product -- with the cheaper version aimed at businesses. Probably old news for the slashdot crowd, but it's worth reading to see how much Middle America is overpaying. Caveat emptor, indeed." And there are also product lines where the expensive version is aimed at business buyers, because a higher price implies greater credibility.
Old news indeed. I knew this to be the case in TVs when I worked for my father at his TV store in the 60s. It was especially prevalent in home stereo equipment in the 70s and 80s.
The major manufacturers create their own "competition" to flood the market with at the most popular price ranges, often selling under 4 or 5 labels simultaneously, and not all of them at the same price level, despite identical guts. Three major Japanese manufacturers accounted for 14 brands at a "super-store" I visited on a research jaunt, back when I sold the stuff.
Want an eye opener? Go find out who obtained the patents on VHS and Beta VCR systems. Not the current patent/license owners; the creator sold the license for one of them to a competitor, so that no matter which format "won" they'd still be making money.
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
VCRs were one of the first I heard about to do this... one motherboard, vendors enable the features that they want for each model, depending on their marketing strategy.
The price difference might be caused by the different level of services attached to a product.
On the other hand, businesses are more likely to buy in bigger quantity, or at least buying more regularly.
Uselessful technology (Air-Charged
The poweredge 400sc is the same as their top of the line Dimension model bit in a less flashy case. The Poweredge in a minimum configuration costs about 349$ The Dimension you can't get for cheaper than about $1000. They do the same (or at least did) with their laptops. My Inspiron 4100 has been reflashed (by me) with the Latituce C610 bios so I can use the docking stations (with pci slots). Dells precision line is the same as well. Their precision notebooks are latitudes and inspirons but with a FireGL or Quadro card (which you can order separately from dell and stick in your laptop yourself) The desktop precision systems are the same as well. Just a Optiplex or Dimension with a good video card.
My parents run a small business. They tell me that the phone service for businesses is more expensive because businesses threaten to sue as soon as the service goes out for whatever reason.
Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
another big example is Alienware, but its Sager Notebooks who create the laptops for them.
... but this is not a big deal. The example cited in the article should come as no surprise to anyone: a "business class" plasma TV without speakers or a tuner would naturally be cheaper than the "consumer" version which has these features.
The extra $330 dollars is the value to the consumer for not having to go and buy a separate tuner and sound system.
This is one of those "filler" stories you see on websites when there isn't enough real news for real journalism.
A friend of mine worked in a factory that made liquid soap. She ran a bottling machine. She said there would be batches of hundreds of bottles at a time. Each batch would have a different label, and would sell at a different price in the store. But they were filling them with the same slop from the same tank.
Unknown host pong.
Sager has an extremly sucktastic reputation. That would be a very good reason to stay away from Alienware laptops, if anyone needed another. (*cough* overpriced *cough*)
about the same as those Nike trainers,starbucks coffee,Gap Shirt,Armani Trousers
its called branding, the selling of dreams
If you want to get even cheaper on managed switches, SMC gear is the exact same thing that Dell is selling at half the price.
You see Accton makes a ton of unmanaged and managed gear. They sell bigtime to the OEM market, and they also make most of Dell's stuff.
Who owns SMC? Accton.
Crack the cases and look at them side-by-side and it all becomes clear. Buy Dell and you pay twice as much for the same exact switch. Buy two for the same price as the Dell and you have support that even Dell can't beat - an always available spare!
Natural != (nontoxic || beneficial)
I understand that the person buying the product didn't want a tuner or speakers. I wouldn't either. But you can't claim that they are a simular product. For about %7 more, you get a simple plug in the Cable, plug in the power and go solution. Even if someone knew about both product, the cheaper one may not be the better buy.
I don't get the argument.
Companies do all kinds of crazy shit. A few years back there was a company selling two different models of standalone CallerID display unit, one had, IIRC, twice the call memory as the other (like last 50 calls vs. last 100 calls). The 100-call model also had a steeper price.
Someone discovered that both units used the exact same circuit board, and upgrading the cheaper unit to store the last 100 calls was, again IIRC, a matter of cutting one trace on the board and soldering a connection someplace else.
Ever wonder why Radio Smack stopped carying its "Optimous" brand of stereo and AV equiptment? It was all made by RCA. Now, they just cary the RCA brand on the shelves.
Isnt this like the whole "Frosted Mini-Wheats" VS. "Frosted Mini-Spooners" (Brand X) debate? I think a Kroger grocery store billboard in Richmond VA put it best. There is a picture of a field of String Peas plants on a farm. In the middle is a LARGE string pea sliced open. On the left is an arrow pointing to the top pea in the pod which says "National Brand" while the pea in the middle has an arrow on the right pointing to it which says "Kroger Brand".
Not too off-topic: I tried to convince my CIO that we could save money by using 7-Zip instead of licensing Winzip (not at the point to recommend Open Office or Linux yet) and he turned it down because "Winzip is the trusted name in ZIP compression", WTF, its actually PK's format! Dont even get me started on his views of PDFCreator vs. Acrobat.
Im dreaming ofa big bndwdth, That can resist the
For example, the Panasonic 42" plasma had a "consumer" and an "industrial" version. However, the article pointed out that the industrial version was $350 lower than the consumer version while glossing over the fact that the industrial version lacked an HDTV tuner, and built-in speakers. Clearly, the addition of those items justifies some increase, and 2-400 is reasonable given the cost of HDTV tuners as separate components.
In addition, he neglected to mention the difference in warranty duration (and the difference in customer service you might expect between a "name" brand such as RCA and a "generic" such as Coby).
No, really! I'm one of the *good* lawyers!
This whole article seems rather pointless. So much to the fact that any high school student who has took an economics class (required at many high schools) will know this simply as price disrimination. It happens in many different markets. Why would the technology market be any different?
Nothing to see here. Move along.
Brendan
The author also examines the phenomenon of manufacturers releasing "consumer" and "industrial" versions of the same product -- with the cheaper version aimed at businesses
i don't know about other industries, but in the consumer electronics world (at least in chips and other electronics parts), "consumer" means that a part was rated for a specific { temperature, pressure, voltage tolerance, radiation, interference } range, while "industrial" was rated for a different (usually wider) range. you do NOT want the same microcontroller in your car's antilock brake system as there is in your TV remote control, even though they may be essentially the same device. sometimes they're the same part, sometimes they're not. sometimes the price is different, sometimes it's the same.
it is not uncommon for manufacturers to sell "industrial" parts as "consumer" rated, at a lower price point. this is usually because it is cheaper to make one part than two.
ConsumerReports.org
I used to have a subscription to the magazine. It was quite useful. Now, unless something is really a lot of money, I don't research the purchase anymore. I just buy the cheapest thing that will do the job. That usually works fine.
In Canada, we have a publication called LemonAid. It gives really good information about buying new and used cars. It is published by the Automobile Protective Association. I won't buy a car without checking it.
The bottom line is that we are not completely helpless in the face of manufacturers' bs.
*cough* IPOD *cough*
I'm one of those "gifted" kids that can "change the world" if I'd get off my ass and stop reading slashdot.
Shock as electronics companies charge extra for brand name!
Am I supposed to be shocked by the fact big-name electronics companies sell their near-identical products at a higher cost than smaller-name companies? You think Levi jeans are any better made (from a practical point of view) than a no-label pair picked up in a department store? No, they're more expensive because of the label that comes attached. It's the same with electronic products - see the Simpsons episode where Homer gets cheap electronics like 'Panaphonics' and 'Sorny' - paying for the label has been going on forever.Move along people, nothing to see here.
Dealing with lawyers would be a lot less tedious if they all looked like Casey Novak.
People like to think there exists "out there" some "objectively correct" price.
That's a complete myth. The "correct price" is what the seller is willing to take and the buyer is willing to give. Everyone is different.
Some people value a product more than others and are willing to pay more. By creating different versions of essentially the same product, the maker can get appropriate compensation for those differences in value.
What's interesting is that something can be uneconomic at all single price points but profitable to all with discriminatory pricing.
When marginal cost is considerably lower than average cost it is possible to consrtuct scenarios with counter-intuitive properties, including competition being bad for consumer prices.
In the 80's I worked in a commercial photo finishing lab -- the place your film gets processed when you drop it off at a grocery store.
They charged more to develop ISO 400 film than ISO 100 film. The explanation was that the customers thought that since ISO 400 film was more expensive, it would be harder or more costly to process it.
But the fact was that all C-41 films went through exactlythe same process. In fact, it costs less to process ISO 400, because more silver is recovered for recycling during the process.
So the conclusion is, they charge what people are willing to pay.
but the practice exists in many fields.
A good example is medical devices and products. All you need to do is slap the term "medical" ona product and double or triple the price. Cheap rolls of 22" wide paper become exam table covers, manila folders become medical chart binders, and medical billing software companies always try to force you to buy their own equipment, all for a little extra lagniappe.
Don't even get me started on the price of a tablet of acetaminophen given in the hospital.
I once bought a 20" TV in Canada, which was really cool because it had a message feature, where you could type in a message and have it scroll across the screen at a particular time. I moved to the USA, and the same make of TV (and model number) didn't have this feature :(
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
That's backward, it's usually the business version that has a jacked up price.
If something claims to be for industrial or business use, normally it costs at LEAST twice what the consumer version does.
These guitars were *exactly* the same from brand to brand, with the exception of colors, and some minor details (shape of pickguard, knobs, pickup covers).
Harmony brand usually sold for more money, followed by Sears and Wards even though the guitars were exactly the same.
When Japanese guitars started showing up for much less, there was much more 'spread' as many of the cheaper models were outsourced overseas. After some time, the industry shook itself out and the cycle began anew.
Now many of the old names are owned by the Japanese, and it is a similar situation.
Note that most all industrial plasma monitors don't include DVI with HDCP input, and usually only support VGA or component inputs. As a result they will quickly be obsolete once HDCP support becomes mandatory. While industrial plasma units are often $1K or more less than plasma HDTVs for the same display technology, there is a real added value, and thus additional cost, to the consumer branded technology. --M
" The price difference might be caused by the different level of services attached to a product."
I think the better question is; can the difference between "quality a" say consumer, and "quality b" say industrial be discerned by the average buyer?
Just because something "looks alike" doesn't make it "alike".
This came up for me today. I'm looking into buying some digital audio equipment for a small home project studio, and the salesman I talked to at Sweetwater stressed the importance of not just going with the 48GB internal 5400RPM drive I've got for my laptop... and recommended Glyph drives. I said I'd think about it, and started to look them up on usenet... some folks say that Glyph's quality and support are worth it. Others say that a screwdriver and some backup drives are just as good. I'm still trying to learn enough about the differences between hard drives to make a judgement.
Tweet, tweet.
There are people that are (stupidly) willing to pay the premium for a brand name. It's almost a selling point for some. "Oh, we don't use generic stuff around here" as if the generic stuff were inherently inferior.
Of course there are the corrupt IT execs who will "outsource" jobs to friends for the kickbacks. Uh, our network wiring is all messed up (works just fine) so we'll switch everything to the blue Belkin cat5e. Supplied by my friend Darrin, by the way, who's getting a fat contract to do this work.
Or the classic case of having a Ferrari laptop so you can impress your peers in that big exec meeting.
This theme is pretty (good job with the gradient logo!) but it's too low-contrast. White text on light brown/gold and light brown/gold text on white are both tough to read. Slashbots: please fix!
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
This is no different than the automobile industry
Ford = Mercury = Lincoln
Chevy = GM
Chrysler = Dodge
Honda = Acura
Toyota = Lexus = Scion
Volkswagen = Audi = Porsche
The automobile family tree runs back over itself in so many different ways. Ford owns part of Mazda, and they both produce an identical SUV... with different name badging.
How can you call the following "glossing over"? He comes right out and says most of what you are bitching about.
"It doesn't come with speakers or a built-in TV tuner, which was just fine with him because he already had an HD satellite set-top box and home-theater speakers. (In fact, now that a few months have gone by, there are even better deals available on both products.)"
Be careful here. A product that look exactly the same might not be. It might even be made in the same factory from the same parts. But electronics go thorugh a lot of testing along the way in manufacturing and the cheaper ones might be produced with looser specifications. It might even be "outlyers" from the core product.
For example if the brand name version has a spec on some output that calls for 40-50 (insert unit of measure here), units that come off the line with 35-39 or 51-55 might go into the "low cost brand" bin. They still work, but they're not opimal quality.
It's also very easy in electronics to disable features, depopulate boards, etc. Buy a million 5% resistors. Sick the ones closest to nominal in the brand name product, stick the others in the discount product. So, maybe the picture quality isn't as good. You saved fifty bucks, so don't complain.
-S
--- What parts of "shall make no law", "shall not be infringed", and "shall not be violated" don't you understand?
" I noticed a similar phenomenon when buying light bulbs. In comparing the store brand with the name brand (philips I think) I noticed that not only were the packages were almost identical in feel & construction, but the packages had the location of manufacture printed on them. Both brands were manufactured in the same city."
You know? I just had a thought. Why doesn't someone complie a database of equivalency for products, and put it online?
The reason for the price gap is a matter of quantity. The average user will probably only buy one computer, monitor, gadget, etc. The average business will buy dozens. Given that companies are likely to want purchase items in large quantities, the manufacturers can stand to price items with a small profit margin...after all, a lower price may entice the purchasing companies to increase the size of their order.
Example:
Product A costs the manufacturer $100. The average user can purchase Product A for $150. That turns out to a $50 profit for the manufacturer. The average company can purchase Product A for $105. While that is only a $5 profit for the manufacturer, the fact that Product A is very cheap will mean that companies will be willing to purchase 10 units, not just one. Wait...that comes out to the same profit, right? Yep. The benefit of lower pricing is that now the purchasing business has a 10 unit dependency on Product A, not just a 1 unit dependency. A $150 waste (the cost to ditch a 1 unit reliance on Product A) is much more manageable than a $1050 waste. This means that, due to higher volume purchasing, Product A has a much more stable customer base among businesses. A stable customer base means more upgrades, more future purchases etc...generally a better deal for the manufacturer in the long run. Works out nicely, eh?
The real litigious bastards...
... does this as well. They just spray paint the outer shell, tack $2000 onto the SRP and viola - a high performance laptop is born! Of course on the other hand, I would rather deal with Voodoo or Alienware support over the OEM manufacturer of those laptops any day.
(at least from my experience).
Sony stuff is garbage. Total, complete garbage.
I've seen many sony products die prematurely. Example: my Sony VCR died well *before* the vcr it replaced.
Yet, many people are convinced that Sony is one of the best electronics brands. And, in fact, pay more to have a Sony product.
I use Macs to up my productivity, so up yours Microsoft!
1. "Products that are more highly demanded are sold for higher prices! Film at 11."
2. insert rant on advertising and its harmful affects on consumer welfare
3. submit to slashdot
4. insert hackneyed, trite cliches and catchphrases.
5. ???
6. Profit!
beware the jabberwock, my son! the jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
When manufacturers gear up to produce a product it only makes sense to sell as many units as possible. I remember when Radio Shack use to sell computers and I found that their parts were identical with MUCH cheaper hardware.
Well, except that they always would ensure that there was a superficial difference that prevented the MUCH cheaper hardware from being mounted thus forcing people with Radio Shack computers to by their over priced products.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
That concept pisses me off, whether it's the basis of a pure capitalism or not. Maybe it's the hard-wired instinct for "fairness" that we share with monkeys, or maybe it's the impossibiity of implementing such an idealized system. Or maybe it's because my idea of "what I'm willing to pay" is cost of stuff + cost of labor + reasonable profit. Anything more than that is gouging, and anything less is most likely subsidized by the gouging.
Who knows? I still don't like it. Why *can't* we all pay the same reasonable price? Why is artificial price differentiation and illusory competition through rebranding and repackaging of identical products a good thing for anyone but the companies succeeding in the gouging end of the spectrum?
Maybe there's a good reason I'm not an economist. On the other hand, maybe there's a good reason this doesn't work perfectly now-- people hate it, and some of them even bother to shop around to find the lowest price.
Here's an example, but in the OPPOSITE direction. A relative of mine works for a large company that makes batteries (the one with the tinted hare).
They make alkaline cells for a myriad of companies. Walgreens, Radio Shack, Wal-Mart, Albertsons, the list goes on and on.
According to him (he used to work as a production manager in one of their large plants), the batteries made for other customers were actually tested MORE than their own name brand, since the potential damage was greater if they lost one of these big accounts due to excessive warranty claims.
So the cheaper generic batteries are actually slightly better quality than the big name ones, but not by much. Funny how that works out.
Really they are unless you're an antisocial comicbook nerd who gets a woody out of the latest 1.5% better performing $700 videocard.
Guess what analretentives????
My Camry is the SAME car as a Lexus ES300.
"One of our freelancers, Stewart Wolpin, did this recently with a Panasonic model, the TH-42PHD6UY, a stripped-down version of the TH-42PX20UP. Wolpin purchased the TH-42PHD6UY for just over $5,000, tax and a stand included"
That freelancer needs a whap on the head because he got ripped off. I recently purchased a brand spanking new TH-42PHD6UY for just over 4k after the addition of a 4yr extended REPLACEMENT warranty an optional DVI Interface board (this version allows the user too swap interface cards) and shipping and handling -- I bought this on ebay to avoid the RETAIL markup, ebay sellers usually order directly from a distributer and markup just enough to pay some bills. Low overhead, few if any employees to feed/insure and no actual inventory make for cheaper prices.
When I went to best buy to find a rackmount system for my AV home theatre rig, I was shocked to see the retail price of the TH-42PX20UP (consumer model) was 5,600.00!!!
That's about a 1500.00 difference! And what do you get? Some crappy speakers -- If you have plasma you sure as hell don't need crappy TV speakers because you have a surround sound system! -- an NTSC TV TUNER -- Errrr once again if you have plasma you wont be tuning in off the airial broadcast signal because you'll have HD Satelite/Cable and a TiVo!!!! --- A remote with 100 extra buttons you don't need -- The Commercial version has about 20 buttons and I use all of them -- and a crapload of aerodynamic looking plastic instead of the plain-jane plastic picture frame, which I prefer since it takes up less space.
So you basically end up paying $1500.00 more for a bunch of crap you don't need and adds no real value to the product.
But as everyone else has mentioned, it's just common sense. And if you're going to send 4k of your hard earned cash, you better do some serious reesearch on each brand/model and ALL it's attributes based on what your needs are.
Ohh and no, ebay is not all that risky if you use your head.
Look for sellers with high transaction numbers (my seller had over 10k trasactions and a 98% satisfaction rating)
And be sure to call them before you click that buy now button, ask about warranty options and geet info on the warranty (my seller referred me to the warranty providers website so I could read the details BEFORE buying the product). ebay has become my favorite place to shop for high end electronics because it is usually much cheaper than buying at a store and if you buy form an out of state seller, you avoid sales tax.
Sometimes you'll see a retail store advertise a product, such as a dishwasher, with the claim that they'll match the price if you find it lower at a competing store. The fine print says that it must be the exact same model number. What they don't tell you is that the manufacturer's model number is exclusive to that store chain so it's impossible to find that *exact* model number at a competing store.
The article is not about paying more for name brands, it's about name brands releasing a consumer version and an industrial version at different prices, with very similar features.
Mod points are pointless when you browse at -1.
A friend of mine worked a summer job in a paint factory where they canned spray paint. He loaded labels into the machine. Same cans of paint, it was the labels that determined whether it was a high end brand or some random house brand.
I worked a summer job in a plant that processed and canned pickles. We put sliced pickles in 5 gallon buckets and slapped Burger King, Long John Silvers, Wendy's, etc labels on them. Interestingly, the only one that was different was McDonalds. They had a special recipe for spices, and they were the 800 pound gorilla, so they could make the suppliers make special batches for them.
With the Infocus X1 versus the 4800, there's another difference. The more expensive 4800 comes with a free screen.
Oh, and don't even get me started on GM or anybody else in the auto industry. Many times, you may do better getting the "luxury" model that already has lots of options on it rather than getting the lower model and throwing the same options on it. A friend got an Infinity I30 because he realized that a fairly optioned out Maxima was more expensive and had poorer resale.
It's also interesting to see what misleading labelling makes people think they're getting more when they're getting less.
I had a friend who owned an electronics dealership. He sold camcorders, among other things. He showed me a shady practice done by at least one camcorder manufacturer. A fictitious example; if he sells, say, a CRV-510 camcorder, the same manufacturer will also make a CRV-515 model, and it will only be sold in large lots to big box resellers like Best Buy, etc. The consumer will see the "bigger model number" and assume it's a better model. It will look identical, and will superficially perform the same. It will probably have some cheap, useless feature that's implemented 100% in firmware (like more fade/wipe patterns or something) so they can have more bullet points on their box.
However, it will have hidden things that are not generally touted which will be inferior; the CCD will have 100,000 less imaging pixels, the S/N ratio of the video amps will be a bit less good, the D/A converters will be cheaper and more noisy, or something. Nothing that Joe Sixpack would even know what you're talking about if you mentioned it. But they'll think they're making a smart purchase buying it at Wal*Mart, and be convinced that the mom & pop down the street are just trying to rip them off.
That makes me wonder, why do printers not come with cables even when they're so cheap? It's just a huge scam to get you to buy them for 10x what they should be.
Don't even get me started on Monster Cable....
At risk of sounding redundant, it is relatively common knowledge...at least among the geek crowd...that all electronics come out of two factories out of Taiwan
Part of the reason for that cost is the uninsured. In which hospitals have to take a certain percentage, by law. Also (unfortunately) insurance companies don't scrutinize claims like they should, and the process of medical billing is more complicated than it needs to be(1). There's even job opportunities for individuals to become medical transcriptionist(2), or medical billing auditors. Others "inefficencies" can be a good start for a small business (home or otherwise). Yes I've been researching. The overall job market is still hurting.
(1) All those "laws" add to the cost of your medical bill (HPAA, and other "compliance")
(2) Anthem I believe is using the $100 Logitech pen Slashdot mentioned awhile back in trials to see if it can speed up the claims process.
I saw a great show on the History Channel about the history of the gasoline. Long story short, there are two types of gasoline pipes used to transport, dedicated and community. Dedicated transport pipes transport only one brand gasoline, and I believe Texaco and someone else has their own dedicated lines.
The rest use a pipe network that takes 14 days to send gasoline from one end to another. The system is setup that you can put in X gallons at one end and extract X gallons the same day from the other end, in effect it shares gas.
The caveat I alluded to is when gas companies extract the gasoline from the pipeline, they do add in additives to improve performance, help maintain seals, et al. However, the additives are for the most part the same too.
They don't have 3 gas pipes for each grade, 87, 89 (91 if you have it), or 93. They have one pipe, and they have to send all different octanes through. The gas does mix and when the transition gas (there's a proper name for it) is extracted (it doesn't go in the tanker truck), it's sold to other companies that don't care about octane ratings, that just want gas for industrial purposes.
This practice is called third degree price discrimination. Basically it indicates that an economist working for the company has separated the market into two or more segments. Through studies, they have determined that the price elasticity of demand is different in each of these segments. (this means that a 1 percent change in price in each of these markets will produce different changes in demand for the product). Because of this, it is possible to maximize profits by selling the product in the two different markets for different prices. (since firms sell at the price where marginal revenue is equal to the marginal cost of producing one more unit of the good, it is to their benefit to separate this marginal revenue for the two different markets, as the market that will accept the higher price will increase profits significantly.) An example economists like to give is selling goods at an airport. People are willing to pay more for the equivalent good at an airport for the convenience of having that good now, while they wait for their plane.
EIN MARKET UBER ALLES!
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
I've been eyeing this combo CDRW & DVD drive for my CD burning / DVD watching needs. I was in Futureshop about a month back, and noticed the same exact drive in their computer section, above a sign that read this price. I assumed that this was wrong, and pointed it out to the guy behind the counter.
"No," I'm told, "that's the correct price."
"But I can buy that exact same drive for about $75 online - don't you think that $120 is a little expensive?"
Once the guy finds out that it was NCIX that had this price, he starts ranting - yelling basically - about authorized distributors, and how as an authorized distributor, Futureshop doesn't have to match that price - besides, NCIX doesn't guarantee their products!
"Yes they do," I tell him, "plus they don't yell at their customers for asking questions."
At this point I walked away to pay for my purchase, and the cute girl at the register asked me how my visit to Futureshop was - I replied that it would have been great except for the jerk in computers, who I pointed out to her.
"That's the manager, sir."
In-effing-sane. Like I said to my buddies when I recounted this story, there's a serious problem somewhere in the supply chain when the same product costs 50% more at one location than another - somebody is getting screwed, and given the choice between the two retailers, I'm going for the one that causes less damage to my wallet.
I don't need to be made to look evil. I can do that on my own. - Christopher Walken
As most of us well know, the software industry is guilty of marking prices up for items of comparable functionality to other (cheap or even FREE) solutions, ALL THE TIME.
Still, I can't say I'd be *too* hard on your CIO over the WinZip decision. I actually pushed for a company to license WinZip before, not because cheaper alternatives didn't exist - but because it made user training less of a hassle.
When it comes to a small utility like a file compressor/uncompressor, users just want something they can get in and back out of without confusion. Users have enough problems dealing with ZIP file attachments to emails, and requests to "please zip up documents X and Y and send them to us". Lots of our users had futzed around with WinZip at home before, so it made sense to use it instead of giving them one more unfamiliar interface to master.
I'm a big proponent of "CutePDF" though for making PDFs in Windows. So many people spend hundreds on Acrobat when all they really want is a way to print things to PDF instead of to a real printer.
Acrobat is great if you use the functionality in it, but it's overkill for most people who buy it. They don't even realize or care that you can do document markup/annotation, and all the other things Acrobat gives you.
I think a classic (and relevant) example of cheaper alternatives in software would be JASC Paint Shop Pro vs. Adobe Photoshop.
This guy might have a point but comparing the Leica vs. panasonic...
I don't think so.
wouldn't effective consumer education on how to make rational buying decisions wring large amounts of pointless waste out of the economy? effort that could then be applied toward greater purposes?
or is the "consumer" hopelessly irrational?
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
The most blatant example of different pricing for an identical product is the old SR-40/TI-30 calculator. The TI-30 cost about $20. The SR-40 cost $40.
The TI-30 was targetted at the regular consumer. The SR-40 was targetted at the engineer or business person. One store, Foley's, actually sold them side by side. The keys were made of different plastic but, otherwise, had identical functions and were located in identical locations on the calculator.
Apparently some suckers bought the SR-40.
I pay twice as much for business phone service as residential, coming into the same house.
BellSouth tried to sell me "business" DSL for well over twice the residential price. This is no joke. They sent a thing to my wife offering DSL for $45/month, and two days later I get a telemarketing call on my business line offering the same speed DSL for $90. I asked her why I should pay that when BellSouth was also offering the same thing for $45.
First, she denied it. Finally she admitted it, but said that the business service was better. Why? Because if they had to send out repair, I'd get next day for business but it'd possibly take a few days for residential. Gee, is there possibly a better way to back yourself into a corner?
So the obvious question: Is your DSL service down so much that this would affect my buying decision? I love it, she had two choices: "yes, our service sucks" or "no, you'd be wasting your money."
She settled with "no" and ended the call.
Plenty of companies want to charge you more for services if you're running a business.
Do you have ESP?
Many of the above comments are about how brand name companies make the same thing under different names, and sell them for different prices, sometimes with different marketing schemes.
;) ) getting advice to raise their prices- Americans believed that the prices were so low that the quality had to be lower. They rose prices and took in cash.
There's a bunch of marketing stories about how if there are two products, one cheaper, one more expensive, that are about the same, most people will go for the cheaper one. Add a new one more expensive than the top one, however, and the old top (the new middle) dramatically increases in sales.
And there's the story about Taco Bell (a fast food chain here in America, for you barbarians
Most of the time these stories are basically saying "THESE COMPANIES ARE LYING TO US!!!". Some times they are commenting on percieved human stupidity, which is what we call it when an emotional system finely honed for survival in the wild proves mildly susceptible to some new cunning analysis and we don't take the most logical path.
I want to give another point: you are, in some cases, watching the free market help the little guy. This is private industry giving "welfare", a strong discount to those who can't afford the pretty name. Buying batteries and poor? Well, you aren't getting worse batteries, you're just paying less. The only real currency we have is emotion, and we are witnessing poor people "paying" with emotion in comparison with rich people- they can't necessarily get the cool name, and good packaging and the warm feeling it produces. But, they aren't getting screwed with a product that blows up or fails or is just crap!
I used to hate this, but then I realized that if it bugged me so much, I could just buy non brand name products all the time. Or I could just shut up and buy Duracells and help support an industry standard that actually has beneficial side effects to those with less money, without making me feel like it's picking my pocket.
This could be a lot worse. This is in many ways noble.
VW = Audi = Lamgorghini = Bugatti = Bentley = Skoda = SEAT
Also note Porsche didn't design the engine on the V-Rod, it is a Harley engine. Porsche redesigned it some, as they transitioned it from a race engine (with a life of 50 hours or so) to a many thousand hour engine.
And of course, as already pointed out, the Impala isn't a Sigma, it isn't RWD.
I believe the other poster missed that the Pontiac GTO is a Sigma also. There are more GM Sigmas in other countries (not just the Holden GTO).
As a marketing student in college, all I ever needed to learn about the way of consumer behavior was through the bottle (yes, literally!). Per the origional post's observation:
a higher price implies greater credibility.
I was at a regional grocery store chain buying a six-pack of Budweiser (best rated in consumer reports at the time and a good value). I was looking at the premium case and noticed these two "dudes" taking a look as well. One dude commented to another: "Look at this beer! It's $8-fscking-dollars per four pack!"
The other dude replied: "Damn, that must be good beer."
Could have graduated then. Just like DNC conventions - substance doesn't matter. It's all packaging and pricing for the masses. Tax the hell out of people and kick them in the nuts, and they'll keep voting you back in power.
They need Queer Eye for the Slashdot Guy.
Isn't that what your average Katz post is all about?
I think I see pigs flying outside... and Satan's cold.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
"Plenty of companies want to charge you more for services if you're running a business."
I think that you're looking at the situation the wrong way. Think of insurance for example. I could go a whole year without insurance, and if nothing happens to me? Then the purchasing of insurance would have been a bad thing as far as my bottom line's concerned. However if I had purchased it, AND something had happen to me? Then it would be a good thing as far as my bottom line's concerned. Also keep in mind that for a consumer, their DSL going down is an inconvienence. For a business it represents the potential loss of income. The quality assurance is like insurance.She failed to point that out to you, and you really should have known better.
Is the US version of the Holden GTO. Not tough to remember, is it?
Also, Opel is known as Vauxhall in the UK. Same cars as Opels (same names!), just different brand name.
Also, as to the previous poster who says Holden using the GenIII V8 is unfortunate, I doubt many would agree with you. The GenIII is bringing power and economy levels to Australia that few other engines could. Ask an Aussie if he'd rather have 440HP or the lower outputs of the previous V8s and I doubt you'll see a longing for the other motors.
Compare:
SMC TigerSwitch 8624T
Dell PowerConnect 5224
NetGear GSM7324
DLink DGS-3324SR
Well, that's all of them, except for Linksys, which is just rebranded Cisco equipment.
And of course, they all use COMPLETELY DIFFERENT firmware. Lovely.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
"But I can buy that exact same drive for about $75 online - don't you think that $120 is a little expensive?"
Hmm.. Less than twice the price.. I can do better..
Lost a set of keys for my car. The dealer wanted about $40 for the key and over $150 for the remote.
Found the keys online for $18 + S & H (had them cut localy for $1.00 each) and the remote was $28.00 each + S & H.
All in all getting one key and one remote from the dealer would have been about $200 and getting 2 keys and 2 remotes online was about half that total that including S & H. I got twice as much for half the price.
The truth shall set you free!
Different "brands" and "manufacturers" could have different policies about warranty, better manuals, different quality of support, environmental record, and so on.. but if it "saves" you cash (on the spot), people will spend incredible time and energy trying to get it to work, and trying to contact support. Maybe this money/efficiency fascination has its downside.
There are / were more OEMs for Optimus stuff. I think Shure made at least some of the mics, Koss made some of the headphones, etc. I've seen lists that show product equivalence; in some cases the RadioShack version was a better deal, in some cases it wasn't.
... I haven't been in RS much recently ;))
(Tense confusion above because if they're not carrying optimus stuff any more, I didn't know it
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
We are currently getting a Power Connect 5224 for less than an SMC 8624T at CDW or PC Connection, which is nice. I think the Dell firmware is a little more polished.
(I mention this because I pointed this similarity out earlier... also note D-Link and Netgear sell these Accton switches too)
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
RCA is actually (one of many) brands that Thomson Multimedia sells stuff under in the states. Included under the umbrella as well are Acoustic Research and Jensen. RCA ceased being a manufacturing companies in the 80s...
Radio Shack was actually selling Thomson under the Optimus moniker. But it was also selling Koss equipment too under that name (headphones come to mind).
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
My father-in-law and I were at a car show about 5 years ago, and they had both a Toyota Landcruiser and the Lexus SUV on display. They were at opposite ends of the building, presumably to prevent people from figuring out that, for those 2 SUVs at least, the Toyota and Lexus models were nearly identical, yet one was priced about $10k more (guess which one).
When my FIL asked the Lexus guy what exactly was the difference between the two that justified the extra $10k, the Lexus guy actually gave my FIL a sly smile and a wink and basically said "the Lexus name."
Those 400sc machines are whisper quiet. You can barely tell they're on.
It was commonly said about DEC equipment was that it was good stuff, high reliability and well built, but expensive. One oft-repeated comment was "We'd love to be an all-DEC shop but we can't afford it."
Apparently someone who owned both the expensive DEC drives and the less expensive - but still extremely reliable - CDC drives decided to take a look and see why the DEC drives were so much more expensive. They had to do some preventative maintenance on one anyway so they decided to look at both of them. So they disassembled both and checked them out.
Apparently what it was, was that DEC put together a high quality drive, added some electronics to it, and built their own from that. And what did DEC use for the high quality drive that they sold for $27,000? The very same $7,000 drive from Control Data!
The lessons of history teach us - if they teach us anything - that nobody learns the lessons that history teaches us.
are Honda, and the Korean ones (Hyundai, Kia... but not even Daewoo).
Everybody is cross breeding up the wazoo into three general camps... General Motors/Fuji/Toyota, Ford, and Daimer-Chrysler.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
There was actually a nobel proze given out for irrational economics. It outlines that people are not willing to follow obvious rational paths taking a hit now against later.
for example. I bought a car. A total dud and dead loss, should have sold it after a few months and lost 3,000 from 8,000 on it. I held on because I felt I could not 'loose' the 3,000 dollars. I ended up loosing a lot more than that, rational did not come into it. I knew what was right but emotionally I could not justify it the same way.
Because I can tell you why Parallel port printer cables rarely come with el-cheapo printers... because they're really expensive to make! They have like 13 pairs of solid conductors twisted up in there, all needing near-identical lengths to avoid "smearing"... it's not like a 4-wire USB cable. SCSI cables are the same way...
You'll note that a ribbon version of an IDE or SCSI cable is much cheaper. This is because the lengths of all the wires are pretty much guaranteed to be the same when you punch down the connector and trim off the end... this is much harder to do in an extracted, rounded cable.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Best VCR I ever owned was an LXI model (Sears store brand) which was originally made by Goldstar and sold under at least a dozen different brand names and a dozen different price points. Goldstar simply made a base systemboard and chassis and customized it to suit whatever was needed. Some units had multi-standard tuners, some had difference remotes, editing features or other tricks. Some were just basic VCRs, but all were basically the same under the metal.
Paper brands are not always as unique as they seem. I once had the chance to visit a Xerox-operated warehouse used to distribute paper and ink supplies and whatnot. Among the stock items were pallets of boxed color paper labeled as store brands for Office Depot, Office Max, Staples as well as some bearing the Xerox brand label. It was all the same paper, being sold by competing chains and under the Xerox brand, at all sorts of price points. Xerox was the OEM and distributor and they in turn bought the paper from a Georgia Pacific paper mill.
It makes sense: the paper mill only had to make ONE kind of pink or blue or whatever paper, and only had to ship it to ONE customer, Xerox. Xerox took care of shipping it out to all the different retail chains which allowed the retailers to get a pretty decent deal and adequate quality. Everybody wins.
doesn't this mean ohio and nearby states? is this what timothy means?
It seems you have not been around Europe lately, and had a look at prices for electronic devices and gadgets. For example, a low-end GPS receiver (Garmin Geko 201) that you can get at the US from Amazon as low as 120 USD (100 EUR), will cost you around 160 EUR anywhere in Europe, or even more at some places (the same device starting at 200 EUR in Spain).
I am sure you are used to pay more than us for several other thing (mobile phone calls, for example), but not for electronics. Anyways, the news was about a different (but somewhat related) issue.
In 1981 I purchased a Sony KV2648R 27" console. A beauty; glass top, beautiful dark wood, and one of the first IR remotes. The remote itself was a work of art; stainless steel, etc.
Several years later I bought an el cheapo Sony 13" color TV. No extra features; extremely simple remote.
One day I experimented. I tried my KV2648R remote on the 13". Surprise surprise! I got on screen display results exactly as they appeared on the big console. For example, I could change the 13" from Antenna1 to Antenna2. Of course, there was no Antenna2...
So the concept of one motherboard across a wide range of models is very true, and goes back quite awhile.
Price factor for any electronics is optimized if based solely on customer lookout:
Two men in uniform: 150x
Two men in suit&tie: 25x
Man in suit&tie: 10x
Man in suit w/out tie: 8x
Jeans, shirt, shaved, nice car: 6x
Jeans and T-shirt, car: 2.2x
Jeans, T-shirt, beard, glasses: 1.15x (geek factor 1 standard price)
Old friend: 1.0x
Geek friend: 0.8x
Girlfriend: 0.5x
Girlfriend, current: 0.0x
There you are, staring at me again.
All the Holden Commodores and the Pontiac GTO are both built on the sigma platform. The CTS has had some additional tuning down at the Nuremberg ring. CTS-V is very similar to a HSV, Although a bit better. I suspect the Cadillac also has more options.
This is essentially the #1 reason why you won't see me out shopping, expect on very rare occasions... Shopping, comparing specs and prices is difficult enough without having to look-up the circuit diagrams for each product to make sure you're not getting crap from someone else.
I bought a Sony CD-RW that turned out to be a Lite-On... If I had wanted a Lite-On, I would have got one, for less... Instead, I try to go with a halfway decent brand, and get screwed. Not just because it's rebranded, but I avoid no-name junk because it typically has problems. Without going into details, Audio-CDs have to be burned at 4X, and you can't get it to burn at any speed other than 4X or 40X.
So, what's the end result of rebranding???
I'm not buying ANYTHING from Sony EVER AGAIN. I don't trust any name brands, so if I'm going to get crap, might as well be the cheapest, from a no-name. I don't have any way to know I'm not getting crap, so I buy nothing from anyone until I REALLY need it. I don't have a DVD-RW yet because of this.
Basically, I'm avoiding buying anything until I find some way I can know I'm not getting junk. I would go on a shopping-spree if there was a store around here that made sure they don't carry junk. Instead, absolutely every store has given-in to the Made-in-China junk market, and sells whatever is cheapest, even if it doesn't work as advertised. I would stick to a certain brand if they were consistently good, and reasonably priced (not necessarily cheap, just not insanely expensive).
Okay, I'm more or less ranting now, but it's true. Companies are all to happy to sell-out their long-term future in exchange for a short-term jump in revenue, just long enough that they can sell-off their stock, or find a job at another company they can pump and dump.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
How about the brand comfort aspect? I'm currently designing new multimedia speakers with the works .. rosewood built, european drivers and bundled with a custom designed amp (shameless plug, http://www.kaytech.com.au/ ). Currently it seems my price point is going to be around $150AUD cheaper than other products on the market (with a comfortable margin). So the question is, how many people here are really willing to pay much more for inferior products to be comforted by the typical Sony or Pioneer brand?
I realize it's become popular over the past day or so to bash the IT color scheme, but I've got to tell you, I love it. Seriously. But that's because I have long ago switched my desktop color scheme (Yeah yeah, I use Windows 2000 and XP. Score: -1) from the default to the "desert" scheme, which the IT page matches beautifully. That bright blue has always been too much on the eyes, and the desert scheme gives just the right amount of contrast in both luminance and hue for the desktop color, window foreground and background colors, icon colors, etc. If you've tried playing around with desktop color schemes before and decided, after sampling only a few of them (or all except desert), that they all suck, then you really need to try desert. Once you have, you'll never go back.
The body panels are subtlely different and the options go much further but underneath the skin its the same car. in fact if you loaded up a Camry with every option you'd have and ES300 Lexus.
GM owns part of Kia.
Perhaps I misunderstand what the original poster was suggesting, but the idea of "charge consumers the maximum they are willing to pay" doesn't strike me as terribly fair either. There are some things that the maximum they are willing to pay is however much it costs until they simply can't afford it. Health insurance, gasoline, etc... I'm sure you've bitched about the prices-- but do you ever exercise your capitalistic right to simply not buy the overpriced product? Of course not-- you can't. (Unless you've got handy mass transit, which is beyond rare in the US)
I'm not suggesting any sort of central fixed price system, only that if a company is found to be charging far more (say, triple) than it actually costs to make, sell, and deliver their product, then they should be in trouble.
This also applies to rebranded girlfriends. I have had more than a few, and have found that there are not too many manufacturers. What happens is the get built in groups at 3 factories in holland. The only thing they change is the trim level.
I tested out the slick trim package, but it lacked a little in performance (and was quite expensive to repair).
I then tested some budget models. Some performed well, but I was embarrased to be in them.
Finally, there was a brand called "Wife". The trim was pleasing, but not flashy. Fairly low maintenance costs (buying beats leasing, because of the higher milage). I only wish I could point you to a dealer that carries them. Unfortunately, they go out of business as soon as the first deal in done. Sometimes they open up shop again, but who wants a used one?
When I used to repair VCRs, both Sony and Panasonic had "consumer" and "commercial/industrial" units where the only difference was the model number, the color of the cabinet, and the video connectors (consumers got RCA jacks, the industrials got the much more robust BNCs).
Remember "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters"? Help make it a reality again! http://soylentnews.org
Virtually every cheap studio condenser mic is made with electronics and capsules from the same two Chinese companys. One is 797 audio and the other is SE.
Other companys package the capsule and electronics in own mic bodies and then sell these mics under their own names - MXL, Samson, Beringer, Studio Projects, Marshall, Rode, Shure, Global Audio, Nady etc etc.
The sad thing is that the whole point of having different mics from different companys is that they sound different. As the essential capsules, which are the heart of the sound of a mic, are all made in the same place, these all sound pretty identical.
Only a few of the older companys (Neumann, AKG etc) make their own mics any more.
Just look at datasheets of the chips. They come in 3 brands with different operating temperature ranges:
Consumer: Rating from 0C to 60C.
Industrial: -40C to 80C
Military: -60C to 120C
The military must meet most strict quality/durability requirements, the consumer may bite the dust at slight "environmental inconvenience". Besides that, they are all the same.
And of course price differs...
Man oh man-- how did I earn "flamebait" for this?
I'm not sure how that was flamebait, but I'll try to rephrase the question more politely:
Since gasoline prices are determined largely by OPEC, a centralized, price-setting organization-- how does the consumer have any input into what the price ends up being? As evidenced by the recent significant price increases for gasoline in the US, people do not buy less fuel, even when the price is up significantly.
Is that better?
It IS the color of the rack.
I seem to have gotten way off on a tangent here-- but you make very good points. As I tried to point out in my initial post, the main reason I don't like this idea is a "gut feeling," and not being an economist, I don't know the real reasons why this isn't good.
Anyway, to pull myself back from this whole "centralized pricing" thing, which is not what I meant to suggest at all-- I think what I dislike about the concept of "what the seller is willing to take and the buyer is willing to give" is that it is usually phrased as "the maximum the customer is willing to pay," rather than "the minimum the company is willing to accept." The original poster was much more even-handed in his description, and I was reacting as much to previous descriptions of this concept as I was to his post, unfairly to him.
In fact, centralized pricing is completely the opposite of what I'm after, and some thought and the helpful posters have pointed out how circular it is trying to determine the cost of things based on the cost of other things. I'll leave the economics to the economists.
I'm still muttering about getting branded flamebait for what I thought were reasonable questions in a couple of other posts, though... go slashdot!
There is usually one difference between the milk brands in a case like this. I can't speak for Albertson's in particular, but there is a similar situation with H.E.B. v. Hill Country Fare milk. Same dairy, same cows. The H.E.B. milk costs a little more, but they do add in some extra levels of vitamin enrichment (maybe A, B & D instead of just B & D). Not being prone to rickets (that's vitamin A defficiency, right?), I always buy the cheaper stuff, of course.
Pentax Optio s4, s4i, s40 and Casio Exilim Z40 - all are identical under the skin, with the only difference being the case, batteries and (slight difference) the firmware.
It's had two candle overflow on it...one destroying part of the front controls so that you must use the remote control to open the disk tray...which had to be chissled out of the surrounding melted plastic. Still going strong at 4 years old.
Blar.
Hello,jerkoff!
Your parent poster was not explaining the reason why stores OFFER the price match, but rather why they CAN offer it, AND NOT HAVE TO WORRY about customers actually finding a lower priced model WITH THE EXACT SAME model number. If you were not so eager to show yourself for the pompus jackass you are, you may have been able to take the time to understand the post before clicking reply with a shit eating I'm going-to-correct-you grin. Drop dead. Thanks!
On a similar note, Watchguard has a firewall line called the X Series which has different models all of which are identical hardware. Your licenses open up additional features, including enabling the three additional ethernet ports which are defaultly disabled. Something about that doesn't seem right to me, but they're not the only ones doing it.
No sig for you. YOU GET NO SIG!
They're building landing strips for gay Martians, I swear to God Is that a Dead Milkmen sig I spy?
---
We spoke for about a half an hour. I don't recall a thing we said. - Colorblind James Experience
Price Discrimination is fairly common in almost all industries. But it is extremely common in industries where there are large initial capital requirements in R&D, compared to the marginal cost of production (such as microprocessors, automobiles, and pharmaceuticals).
Before 200 years ago or so, price discrimination was standard operating procedure, as most products were haggled for. The seller would haggle to determine the highest price the buyer is willing to pay.
The industrial revolution, telecommunications advances, and the rise of the catalog store (such as Sears) made it less advantageous to haggle with every customer, and the standard price became popular. Imagine haggling with your checkout clerk at the local grocery store.
But price discrimination never went away. "Price skimming," charging higher prices to early adopters, is standard with consumer electronics. Brand and off-branding is another means of price discrimination, as is pricing by region or country.
Seriously. That ruled. It's a shame that a post can't go any higher than +5.
--LordPixie
I had a really bizzarre problem with them. I bought a AC adapter for my VAIO laptop and it came without the cable to connect to the AC mains! I called SONY to complain, and they said that the AC cable was "an optional" part (cost about $15 extra). Ended-up buying a generic cable at RadioShack for $2. No longer a SONY customer. Guess who lost more $$$??
Fine, fine fine. Not "glosses over," then. I should have said: "Makes light of." My point was simply that he discounted the value differential between the two products simply because his example purchaser already had an HDTV satellite box.
Even if you have an HDTV satellite box, having a built-in HDTV OTA tuner has value. (E.g., discontinuing satellite service gets rid of your HDTV locals with most satellite providers; alternatively he might want the ability to tune one signal with the Sat box and watch OTA with his built-in tuner; etc.).
No, really! I'm one of the *good* lawyers!
I'd rather have someone who can admit his mistakes and adapt to new situations.
Dubya's going to get us all killed if he doesn't start trying to win the war of ideas with the Muslim world.
Wow, this is alot like what happened to me.
I live in Australia, and recently bought a Sony plasma TV. 4 days after getting it professionally installed, it stopped working. The installers blamed Sony, and actually showed me the broken circuit error messsage. After many phone calls to Sony, it was clear that they didn't care, and were not going to do anything.
So I sued them. Two days after filling, they contacted my solicitors wanting to "find a solution acceptable to all parties". They paid all of my costs, plus gave me a (working) TV bigger than my last one, as well as a suround sound system.
Moral of the story: Don't be scared to sue.
When you Wal-Mart or Safeway batteries, there is a good chance you are actually buying an Energizer or Duracel.
The way the gasoline distribution network works in the US, you have no way of knowing which company produced the gasoline, redarless of which station you go to. All of the gasoline is comingled into the same pipeline and transferred around the country. What comes out at the other end and put in the shell or exxon truck may have been refined by bp. The only difference is the additives.
Disconnect your television. Do your own research. Draw your own conclusions. They're probably lying. Don't be a sheep.
And it's only getting smaller. Gone are the days of many different manufacturers (for example, the single company Audi, which is now only a part of a larger company, started life as four independent companies -- thus the four interlocked circles of the Audi badge),
Maybe there's a link between this trend and the big-business-owns-US-gov trend?
Consider salt. Good ol' NaCl. Really, how many different types of table salt are there? Now, how many of us buy the brand with the girl and the umbrella in the rain instead of the cheaper, no-name house brand?
Yes it's true. Most of the stuff you buy from Motorola, HP, IBM, and others is bought in full from Chinese manufacturers. The retail front end does nothing except label it. All the R&D, design and fabrication, 99% of the value of the product, is done in China. Consumers should really consider buying things directly from China instead of paying fees to have it labelled.
Since he mentioned my plasma, I had some additional thoughts on the matter.
:-)) but others may be important.
The consumer Panasonic comes with tuners (that model only comes with NTSC, not ATSC), HDMI input, two component inputs, speakers, stand, and an ugly grey bezel that the commercial version lacks. In addition, the consumer version has in-home service as part of the warranty -- the commercial warranty requires that you deliver the set to a Panasonic service center.
Some of these are of nominal value (speakers...
My god... you're right.
The horror, the horror...
So you're willing to pay $330 for a TV tuner and a pair of crappy speakers?
Hang on...I think I have some left! I can sell you all the TV tuner/crappy speaker sets you like, and I'll even discount them to...oh, say, $300 -- 10% off? How many can I sign you up for? 100 sets? 1000?
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
Opel Manta fan, what can i say :)
Opps forgot to make that Manta A, if you're not in US ;)
you should come over the UK....we pay in UK pounds what you pay in US dollars and 1 UKP ~ 1.9 USD.
Don't complain, everthing I know of cheaper in the US compared to UK/Europe...food, petrol(gas), electronics, clothes....
It is no surprise here - the "free market" is nothing but an illusion for the people and businesses with lots of money who are entwined with the banks and financiers. Check out the financing and bank industry and see how much real "comeptition" there is if you trace the ownership of all the banks subsidiaries or "daughter companies" many companies and industries are little more then a "cell" of a larger body or a "finger" of the hand of major banks and financial institutions.
Guess maybe I should consider myself lucky that they refused to provide me with a charger if the AC cable is extra. I'm sure they would have charged me a bomb for it.
:) I think I've had probably 10-14 laptops through various jobs and private of various brands - Dell, Fujitsu, IBM, Twinhead etc. I smoke and well - it's amazing what can end up in a keyboard. Of all the laptop's I've had, the Vaio is the only one that did NOT survive this treatment. I've had to replace the keyboard twice in 3 years (no cleaning, blowing whatever helped) and it was around USD 150 each time :(
By the way - while we're at the Vaio bashing
Never mind - history now - and so is Sony Laptops on my desk no matter how cool they look.
Who thought it was a good idea to mod an AC up? Either have the fortitude to be counted when you open your mouth or keep your pie hole shut, troll.
"Like fire and fusion, government is a dangerous servant and a terrible master."~RAH
The auto companies have overlapping ownership and common designs under different labels.
For electronics, though, it's not at all clear that any of the companies selling brand name products to the Average Consumer market have any part of the design -- instead they're buying from Taiwan or Singapore or wherever the real innovation is happening, and selling to the United States.
If you could lift the sheet metal off a Ford, a Chrysler, an Audi and a Saab and find, underneath, that you were in each case buying a Dowhatsu designed and produced in Szechuan, now, that would be a comparable situation.
Belaying the argument about automobiles, I find the topic about electronics -- sourcing and labeling and pricing -- very interesting.
Over and over, I can find items direct from Hong Kong or other overseas sellers that look to be exactly the same thing I'm finding advertised in the US market. I wonder all the time, where was this really thought up? Who's ripping who off -- is someone stealing a clever US design by making an extra hundred thousand of them for off-label sale? Or is someone charging double in the US for the same thing available in Hong Kong, spending half the take on the label, box and advertising and pocketing the difference.
In either case, I'm paying more if I buy the product with the US label on it. Cui bono?