Slashdot Mirror
British Schoolkids Get Copyright Education
Krafty Koder writes "The Register reports that British school children will be indoctrinated in copyright law , in a scheme backed by the music industry, as part of the government sponsored Music Manifesto initiative. In response, kuro5hin have posted an open letter on this issue." The U.S. has its own version.
Jabber the Lawyer
Half of our kids can't even spell, now we're wasting time on this crap?
I like muppets.
I think it would be great if someone made a list of such things that we could xerox and pass out to all the students so they can be PROPERLY educated.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
Is this brainwashing even legal?
What is next? Teaching them by prying open their eyes like in Clockwork Orange with Beethoven playing on the background??
Friends don't let Friends use Internet Explorer.
"We don't need no education"
But understanding the law is an important facet of every day life, whether you live in Albania or Zimbabwe. It is also important to understand the law in order to oppose it. I know knee jerk reactions to things we don't understand are the norm here at Slashdot, but that's precisely why all the venom against the DMCA/CPAA/etc causes no harm to those laws.
The first step is understanding. I don't see how anyone could be against legal education in schools.
Anything "taught" in modern schools (copyright law, feminism, Darwinism, ...) is best described as 'indoctrination'.
Our educational system? Sure copyright is an issue that is controversial, and piracy is a problem, however I don't think that it is a good idea for corporations to be the ones funding this type of thing. It compromises the educational integrity of dealing with the subject subjectively from both sides. I wouldn't be surprised if in the future someone gets suspended for wearing a "bit torrent" t-shirt on anti-piracy day or something...
"And I'm right. I'm always right, but in this case I'm just a bit more right than I usually am." - Linus Torvalds
Great, this is just what we need...
more little non-sharing learned Senator Hatches running around with British accents.
Yes! I listen to NYC Speedcore and do math at 3AM. I suggest you try it too.
Now lets hope that they are going to just teach just copyright laws.... and not why its a happy idea to have logging software on your computer to "prevent" copyright infringements...
.Hack//* Owns me.
Teaching kids about copyright law, ok fine, nothing wrong with knowing what the law is.
Teaching kids the music industry's idea of copyright law, very, very bad idea.
President of the MPAA Jack Valenti outright lied when he said the following:
n terview s/Valentis.Views-347207.shtml
"What is fair use? Fair use is not a law. There's nothing in law."
http://www.hpronline.org/news/2003/01/25/I
What is going to stop his organization from lying to children? Nothing.
Btw, for those in the US fair use DOES exist in common law and in statute, specifically, TITLE 17, CHAPTER 1, Sec. 107.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
The media giants have also bribed DECA to begin teaching their spin on copyright. I didn't beleive it when I first heard it. This is a highly complex subject that the best lawyers spend years to learn. How can we expect high school kids to come to an informed opinion on a multi-sided subject with only one angle being presented to them? I can't imagine them going to any length to teach children about their rights to copy something (like educational purposes or fair use). When I was in school the worst corporate sponshorship was Georgia Pacific's educational series on environmental conservation. When compared to the media giants, all I can say is that at least GP replanted seedlings after tearing down a forrest.
Really. No jokes. All /.ers that are UK parents should not only teaching the kids the value of open exchange of ideas. They should also go to the school and *loudly complain* against this if their kids are exposed to such disgusting political propaganda.
They could also organize counter-lessons, both in school with the aid of clever teachers or outside. We must reject this now, before it's too late.
-- Patent no.123456: A way to personalize
Comment removed based on user account deletion
When a commercial industry lobby can influence the curriculum, where the system is already barely covering the basics and government is ignoring the pleas of academics to invest more in proper education... makes you realise who owns you doesn't it?
Gotta eduh-kate them early on, before the little consumers grow up! It's only sensible!
I'm hoping the kids think this is bullshit, and it might trigger the opposite response. It deeply saddens me that the industry feels so strongly that people are just consumers of products and not that there is an inherent right to fair-use, sharing or collective ownership/stakeholders. Sharing something you own does not make you a thief or a commie -- it's a behaviour that is blessed by the spirit of copyright law, that of fair use and public stakeholdership.
Anybody who says this has anything to do with compensation of artists is arguing a red herring. We have wonderful (read: inexpensive, reliable, ubiquitous) mechanisms for mass information distribution now, and publishers are realizing that they are quickly becoming unnecessary, and they're scared.
There's nothing natural about the way our copyright law in the United States and "intellectual property" in general work. It's a social contract, and, frankly, that contract is tilted rather sharply in the direction of publishers at present. Of course, it only makes sense now that the publishers are going to catch the children at a young age, and indoctrinate them into this idea that the present social contract is "just how things are", and squelch the very idea that society might want to renegotiate the terms of the different monopoly grants afforded by our "intellectual property" law.
It's fucking depressing. We need "intellectual property" revolution while there's still enough of a public who understands that things don't have to be this way.
The Attitude Adjuster, I hate me, you can too.
Great. We now know where society's priorities for our children and our youth are heading.
Will you bother to tell him that the victims of illegal sharing are the artists and creators themselves?
The victims of the existance of the "publishing industry" are the artists and creators themselves. The advance of new models of compensation for artists and creators is hindered, to the point of non-existance, by the "publishing industry".
The Attitude Adjuster, I hate me, you can too.
I used to take copyright law at least halfway seriously; I have published a minor piece or two myself. Copyright law was always intended to foster creation of new works by offering a monopoly on their duplication for a few years. It seems to have worked well enough, but where is the justification for extending the period of expiring copyrights? For that matter, has there been a shortage of new material requiring new incentives? It all strikes me as stealing from the common wealth.
Yes, clearly the most important laws to educate kids on is civil copyright infringement... Why don't we educate kids early about how corporate account fraud destroys the economy? I think that would probably be a better legal point to teach. Of course, the corporate sponsorship would mean the actual class would teach how all government regulation is bad except for enforcing strict Corporate biased IP laws...
Our educational system? Sure copyright is an issue that is controversial, and piracy is a problem...
Violations of "intellectual property" law (please don't call it "piracy") are a problem IF SOCIETY SAYS THEY ARE. "Intellectual property" law is a SOCIAL CONTRACT where society grants the creators of works of "intellectual property" a monopoly on their use, distribution, derivation, and/or duplication for a limited time. Of course, in the United States the contract has been so perverted by the lobby of the publishing industry that it bears no resemblence to what was originally specified by the Constitution.
What we need to be teaching is the history of "intellectual property" law, and teaching our children that it's right to question the law, and to ask "Why does this have to be this way?" Anyone who believes that law is static and unchanging, based on the collective opinion of society, needs to recall "blue laws" and other such antiquities.
The Attitude Adjuster, I hate me, you can too.
A class is not going to teach right and wrong. You know right and wrong. You dont care about someone elses version of right and wrong, you have your own. And whether you choose to do what they consider wrong or what you consiter wrong anyway isn't going to be decided in an ethics class.
Business owners that engage in shady deals aren't sociopaths- they know that what they're doing is 'wrong'. They simply don't care. Business Ethics classes won't give a criminal a bleeding heart and convert him to charitable donations.
Likewise, teaching copyright law wont do a convert evil file sharers into saints. If a person believes its wrong, they'll either do it anyway or they wont. If they believe its alright and the laws are screwed up, they'll likewise do it anyway or they wont.
The only good you could hope to get from classes teaching copyright law, sponsered by the music industry, is to scare kids into compliance at an early age. Make sure they understand that sharing a single MP3 in this day and age could potentially screw them over more than say, unprotected sex or smoking.
The class isnt there to teach people to be more 'moral'. It's to scare them into complacence. It's to get it into their heads that this is the LAW, so that from this point on, noone will question it just as noone questions cigarette taxes (another societal evil that no one questions because smoking's undesirable and it doesn't affect the nonsmokers that voted for it).
Its the parent's job to teach little johnny the difference between right and wrong, based on THEIR concepts of morality.
It is NOT the job of some monopoly ( or government ( to invade our schools and attempt this 'teaching'.
Get the hell out of my child's classroom. This is way out of hand.. and needs to stop. NOW.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Short version: if we're going to find time and money to educate our children on music copyright, how much more important is it to include music in our children's educations?
Because the real agenda is to teach children that the publishing industry is the only way that artists can be "legitimate", and that the creations must be owned by corporations and "protected" by "intellectual property" laws. It has nothing to do with teaching why-- rather, the point is to teach the kids not to ask why.
The Attitude Adjuster, I hate me, you can too.
Corporate America has been influencing schools for a while now. Would a kid getting suspended for a bittorrent shirt somehow be worse than the kid who got suspended for wearing the pepsi shirt on coke day (or was it the other way around)?
I'd rather be lucky than good.
Ah ah ah! Now now! The correct term is Photocopy. Don't go infringing on Xerox's trademark.
DIE BART DIE!
So, because you don't like the position, and can't argue intellegently, you mod me "troll"? How about saying something intellegent about it?
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
Semantics of the word indoctrination aside, the reason this is so objectionable is that the kids aren't being taught the law as it is written, but the law the record companies use it.
What's next, Microsoft and the BSA telling kids that copying software is bad? Copying software is perfectly legal, under the right license, and so is copying music. The record companies are desperate so to maintain their old business model -- one that simply doesn't make sense now that music can be disseminated with neglible cost -- that they've resorted to indoctrinating kids with the traditional, and false, view of music.
P.S. Who modded the parent a troll? Having a different point of view isn't trolling.
For what it's worth if I had any mod points I'd give you one.
Since when did corporate interests/organisations have any say in school curriculum? Does nobody see anything wrong with this??
Oh brave new world.
dark sarcasm in the classrooms
teachers, leave them kids alone!
-------
1. Enjoy your job
2. Make lots of money
3. Work within the law
Choose any two.
My theology teacher once described in class what happened at a Sunday school she teached at.
She would sit the children down and repeatedly ask them "Who loves you?" and the children were to reply "God loves me," every time.
I was horrified, but I was the only one.
That was the very moment I realized that I was not one of these people.
I'm tempted to believe you're trolling, but I'll reply anyway...
I bought the store about 12 years ago. It was one of those boutique record stores that sell obscure, independent releases that no-one listens to, not even the people that buy them.
I don't know where you live, but the independent record store is the only one thriving in major cities (Amoeba in L.A., for example.) Stores that cater to collectors, that have knowledgable staff that caters to people with taste beyond the mainstream will always have a place. If the previous owners failed, they weren't good businessmen, plain and simple. It wasn't because the music was, as you perceive it, weird.
I decided that to grow the business I'd need to aim for a different demographic, the family market. My store specialised in family music - stuff that the whole family could listen to. I don't sell sick stuff like Marilyn Manson or cop-killer rap, and I'm proud to have one of the most extensive Christian rock sections that I know of.
Every day, fewer and fewer customers enter my store to buy fewer and fewer CDs. Why is no one buying CDs? Are people not interested in music? Do people prefer to watch TV, see films, read books? I don't know. But there is one, inescapable truth - Internet piracy is mostly to blame.
Two thoughts. The first is, they aren't very Christian, are they?
The second is, perhaps it's your business model that's to blame, not the internet. You just might be selling something that no one wants. Christian Rock, for example, tends to be really bad music, a pale imitation of what was popular two years ago. Most teenagers are too hip to buy that crap.
A week ago, an unpleasant experience with pirates gave me an idea. In my store, I overheard a teenage patron talking to his friend.
"Dude, I'm going to put this CD on the Internet right away."
"Yeah, dude, that's really lete [sic], you'll get lots of respect."
I was fuming. So they were out to destroy the record industry from right under my nose? Fat chance. When they came to the counter to make their purchase, I grabbed the little shit by his shirt. "So...you're going to copy this to your friends over The Internet, punk?" I asked him in my best Clint Eastwood/Dirty Harry voice.
"Uh y-yeh." He mumbled, shocked.
"That's it. What's your name? You're blacklisted. Now take yourself and your little bitch friend out of my store - and don't come back." I barked. Cravenly, they complied and scampered off.
Alright, forget this, you're not even a good liar. The dialogue is straight from a Chick tract. Except Jack Chick wouldn't have a Christian record store owner use the word "shit."
Though I have to admit, the "lete (sic)" was kind of funny.
It should work if it's delivered as well as sex education. Myself and my geek friends attended all our sex ed lessons at school and always paid close attention. It must have worked because I've just turned 30 and have never caught an STD or got someone pregnant, oh wait..
For all intensive porpoises your a bunch of rediculous loosers
The music industry is not dumb enough to believe that a simple class will cause a drop in downloading. I believe the motivation here is to take away a child's ability to plead ignorance on the minutiae of the copyright laws, so the record industry can better sue them.
We all have heard of that little girl whose family was forced to pay thousands of dollars because she downloaded a few harmless songs. Now, the record industry aims to take away the "kids don't know better" loophole, and wash their hands of responsibilty. "Hey, you broke the law. It says so right here and here, in the packet we gave you. Now we're going to make your family pay thousands of dollars for your little error."
It makes sense to me. You get a five minute time out for kicking your brother, and your parents lose a weeks salary for you downloading a three minute pop song.
Does anyone imagine how guilty and horrible that little girl must feel, for costing her family so much money? Apparently not the record industry. She is to be only another wide eyed lamb sacrificed upon the altar of cold money.
Do we really want corporate America influencing Our educational system?
Have you ever heard about Channel One?
I wouldn't be surprised if in the future someone gets suspended for wearing a "bit torrent" t-shirt on anti-piracy day or something...
Sillier things have happened.
Nobody died when Nixon lied.
I'm meeting you half way you stupid hippies!
Teacher: Boys and girls, sharing music is wrong. Don't use P2P software like Kazaa, because downloading thousands of free songs is wrong.
Students: We can get free music? No shit! *scrible* *scratchity scratch* (students write down "Kazaa" in notebooks , will google this new found wonder as soon as they get home)
Teacher: uh... ohh... oh Shit.
friends
Sharing with your friends is one thing, but in the context of 'file sharing' (P2P, or whatever the RIAA whipping boy of the day is), the entire Internet is not your 'friend'.
Previously, sharing music, and books with your friends was, if not encouraged, at least not actively sought out and prosecuted. Now, they have reportable numbers behind all that "sharing" and they can make it sound very, very bad.
Millions of dollars, thousands of files, millions of 'sharers'. And with those numbers, falsely inflated or not, they can influence the politicos into cracking down.
You do not have a "personal relationship" with the millions who happen to connect to Kazaa.
That's where the problem has come from.
He is trolling. This is an old troll.
Etiquette is etiquette. He kills his mother but he can't wear grey trousers.
I'll spare you the long, all caps bwahaha. Maybe the world is all rainbows and strawberries in the UK. Here in America, history books call genocide, "The Trail of Tears." The corporations probably couldn't do a worse job. Just a different one.
I hate it when people pull this "music used to be so much better" trick.. truth is, go back 10, 20, 30 years and the vast majority of music sucked then too. People tend to remember the hits and forget about how there was just as much horrible music as well. If you put an effort into listening to something beyond Clear Channer radio, you'd find musicians that are producing excellent stuff today.
Remember kids, you are better off bringing a gun to school than a copied music CD, even if you own the original and never intended to loan or give away the CD.
... we don't need no education... ... we don't need no thought control...
___
It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
When you realize that when students for instance use the wikipedia, which is a rich source of knowledge, are flunked because their teacher refuses to accept any other source than the "official" recources.
I wonder what would stop a company as Microsoft changing information to make it spin their way just because their Encarta is being seen by the Microsoft sponsored teacher as the only "official" source?
I use Microsoft only as a well known example but essentially you can fill in any corporate name here...
The quest next century will be who's info is been seen as a truthfull reference to things.
Same goes for blogs, which are only very clever marketing tools to spin desinformation towards the badly informed masses.
"British Schoolkids Get Copyrighted Education"
British school children must now pay lifetime royalties for the privilege of an education.
Pretty scary, but it does seem to be the direction in which we are going.
"To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
The truth is that there is nothing wrong with educating kids about something like copyright law, even if it is supported by the music industry. Except the problem, as everyone already knows and pointed out, is that it will end up as an extremely biased education.
This reminds me of something;
In my first semester of college, I was taking some required beginer computer class that I was way to smart for, and the teacher said that we would need to buy Microsoft Excel, Powerpoint, and Word within a certain amount of time, as they were required for the class.
The next day she was talking about it again, and said "but you know, my friend told me you can download it for free if you get this program, kazaa..." and wrote the url on the board.
I raised my hand and explained doing that was illegal, and added that kazaa installed spyware anyway so kazaa lite was better.
The teacher had me write the kazaa lite url on the board.
This will do as much good in ending file sharing as DARE did for ending drug use. Truth is, just saying something to a kid in a classroom doesn't mean he or she is going to believe it. In fact, if you teach it, once the kid gets to the 'rebelious' stage, he/she is probably going to start downloading like crazy just to piss off the figures of authority.
====
Crudely Drawn Games
The fact that you *have* to put forth effort to listen to something beyond Clear Channel is precisely *why* music sucks more now than it used to. Music from multiple sources means more variety of styles, and that means more gems hidden among the mediocre stuff.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
Harmlessly passing your time in the grassland away;
Only dimly aware of a certain unease in the air.
You better watch out,
There may be dogs about
I've looked over jordan, and I have seen
Things are not what they seem.
What do you get for pretending the danger's not real.
Meek and obedient you follow the leader
Down well trodden corridors into the valley of steel.
What a surprise!
A look of terminal shock in your eyes.
Now things are really what they seem.
No, this is no bad dream.
Bleating and babbling I fell on his neck with a scream.
Wave upon wave of demented avengers
March cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream.
Have you heard the news?
The dogs are dead!
You better stay home
And do as you're told.
Get out of the road if you want to grow old.
Etiquette is etiquette. He kills his mother but he can't wear grey trousers.
Hey, I learned about copyright law in school as a kid a few decades ago, too.
The simple little research paper, long a staple of classroom curriculums, requires telling students a little bit about what you can and can't do when you cite your source materials. And it requires understanding the difference between the fair use allowed in citing a work versus outright wholesale plagerism of that work.
Now, seeing as how the people pushing this crappy propaganda are trying to pretend there is no such thing as Fair Use provisions in copyright law, are they going to produce students who will be morally repusled from doing research papers? (Rather than in the past when they were merely being repulsed by general lethargy.)
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
Now the schoolteachers are going to teach them that it is bad to share.
That should peg the bullshit meter.
Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
Excerpt:
"With economy so sluggish we were not getting the usual dose of the hefty 95% payout of other people's work while doing next to nothing for them. Other board members found themselves in a bind looking at having to sell at least one of their private jets and some even having to give up some of the help in one of their mansions. Our dead end battles that cost more money than any other venture trying to stop P2P was not giving our gold lined pockets a fifth coat, and we thought of how else we could spread our propaganda. Needing a scapegoat we thought, let us focus with intensity upon the children! Parents these days tend not to parent and we can force ideas upon these children based upon what laws we have purchased in what country. That is when the epiphany struck us, waste classroom time that could be used to increase math and science skills to drill in the laws we have purchased!
With great enthusiam that should have been invested into better business models more applicable to current times and technology, we found a little island to start our new program. Surely, armed with the knowledge of these laws and ability to recite them these children will be able to do anything they want such as research in the ESA, earn nobel prizes, and anything else. The whole board also agreed this will permanently get them spending money they do not have on needless expenses such as CDs and movies when they can barely afford food and housing. The joy to have four personal chefs on call in my Summer Mansion again!"
The above is a satire meant to give humor while drawing focus on how HORRIBLE it is to waste classroom time on complete shit like this. Schools are for teaching the children the skills they need to succeed and if possible make the great contributions that advance humanity. To waste classroom time on this is to betray the children who suffer it, and their futures.
-1 Overrated (Too many big words for me to comprehend)
teaching our children that it's right to question the law, and to ask "Why does this have to be this way?" Anyone who believes that law is static and unchanging, based on the collective opinion of society, needs to recall "blue laws" and other such antiquities.
That's dangerous to those in power, who coincidently approve school curricula. Also, at least in GA, we still have blue laws.
But learning about the law is not the same as "indoctrination".
That statement is true. However, lying to kids about the law IS indoctrination, and I have every reason to believe, based on their past statements where they have shown a willingness to lie about the law in public statements to the press, that this is precisely what the RIAA would do with this class program.
Now if the schools formed their OWN lesson plans that taught about *actual* copyright law, that would be a good thing.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
I'm just wondering if the music 'artists' today are indeed artists or mere showgirls/boys preforming for the dough. In comparison, they make a ridiculous amount of money compared to anyone else in other fields of 'art', music sharing or not. I'm in computer graphics and my company licenses my work. However, I'd be honored if an individual thought a low quality jpg version of my work was worthy enough to decorate his desktop, though my company might disagree. I don't dare call myself an artist, but as someone producing something emulating art, I want as many people as possible to be exposed to it as possible. If I was a STARVING artist, I might think differently, but then again, I doubt any artist signed with a record company is really starving either.
sorry for the bad handwriting
While I can't speak for the British, it's really too bad how selective schools are in teaching history. "Sure, we'll go in-depth with copyright law because we're getting kickbacks, but only give a passing glance at how the rest of the government really works and the mechanic behind it and its creation..." I mean cripes, it's obvious from the last election that half the population of the United States doesn't even know what the electoral college is, let alone its purpose.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
Test 1 2 3 4
When CDs were invented, nobody thought of patenting "method of distributing music by recording it on a CD and putting it in a plastic box." But that will change. Governments, following the lead of the US, are increasingly allowing patents on business practices. Someone has already patented the idea of recording and mixing a live concert and producing CDs on the spot to sell to audience members as they leave. There's no reason this couldn't happen with whatever new thing people are going to buy when they stop buying CDs. Recording companies need only wait a few years for the next leap in media technology, patent not just the technology itself but the methods of using it to distribute entertainment, and they will have a lock on licensing it to anybody who wants to use it. Say goodbye to the idea of bands cutting their own albums. P2P and other file sharing systems will be illegal (see other /. story today), so musicians will once again be workers-for-hire for record companies.
Through the 20th Century record companies controlled who was able to publish recorded music because the technology to do it was expensive. They could keep this control in the 21st Century by controlling the use of the newest media technology through rights-holding. That's why this school indoctrination thing is evil. The idea of copyrights and patents may not be all that bad, but it's been badly subverted. Intellectual Property laws need to be fixed, not worshipped. Letting the entertainment industry come into schools and shove their agenda down kids throats is a very, very bad idea.
When i took my higher and advanced higher courses in scotland, we were told about IP and copyright laws, and open source software and the GPL etc was also mentioned... not in the curriculum, but tought none the less.... but that was with the same teacher who helped us burn 25 copys of knoppix and crack the BIOS passwords so all the room will boot from CD. The SysAdmin (Who for the record has no traning and was a science tech. before the school put in the computing dept.) almost had a fit, and had us all called to the rector for "Hacking" his network, needless to say the rector (Who was an alright guy) couldnt keep a straight face.
I can tell by the well reasoned response you wrote.
Please let me know what grade level it was that they told you it was OK to curse at people to prove you are smarter than they are.
IOW, your response and lack of UID makes you look like a complete and total ass.
Perhaps this is a good example of why school curriculum should not be controlled by governments. As John Stuart Mill said in arguing for school vouchers, "A general State education is a mere contrivance for moulding people to be exactly like one another: and as the mould in which it casts them is that which pleases the predominant power in the government, whether this be a monarch, a priesthood, an aristocracy, or the majority of the existing generation...it establishes a despotism over the mind...."
If you advocate public schools and thus want the government to control what your child learns then come to expect more of this.
"The State is that great fiction by which everyone lives at the expense of everyone else." -Frederic Bastiat.
Free Speech On The Approved Reading List
I once read that a story is a way to slip past your emotional immune system. It's like a virus that makes you feel something you wouldn't always feel. If that's true, then it's no wonder that certain stories are banned, that we won't let our children read some of them. Do we dare allow them to feel something that we don't think they should?
I was told by my teachers that school was to help prepare me for life. It was to give me vital skills that I would need in order to achieve something in this world. I don't believe that's the case. What I think our schooling is for is to prevent us from thinking the thoughts we'd think otherwise. Maybe we've even convinced ourselves that general schooling for everyone beyond a certain point does us good, but I think we're deluding ourselves.
One of the most ironic situations I've been in was having my history teacher telling our class that indoctrination was absolutely wrong and that it should never have been done. If you don't get the irony, please put this paper down and walk back to your place in line.
It's because of the severe irony of this all that I'm sitting in the back of Mr. Johnson's English class writing this, instead of having him tell me just how I'm supposed to interpret the story we're currently dissecting. I stopped listening to his opinions when he told me once that my interpretation of a story was completely wrong with no basis. I spent half the class describing exactly why my opinion on this was what it was.
He agreed that just maybe my interpretation could be valid. Unfortunately, it wasn't the 'right' interpretation, so we couldn't be bothered to look into it. Once again, if you believe there can only ever be one correct interpretation to a story, please shuffle back into your line.
Lisa's interpretation of the story we're looking at right now didn't agree with what's sitting on that paper in front of him. What scares me is that she isn't even saying why she thinks she's right. Lisa just sat down again, because she knows she is wrong and this isn't the way she should think.
In another severe dose of irony, I just recalled a cartoon from the forties that a friend showed me once. It's a Disney cartoon showing just how evil Hitler's indoctrination of the German children was. It talks all about how Hans is taught to believe that mercy is wrong. The cartoon, targeted at small children, tells us that telling small children what to think is absolutely wrong.
In our school systems, we teach children that they must be accepting of everyone, though there is only one way to read this story. Is it any wonder that we have kids who are unsure of what their place in the world is? They've got no idea what's supposed to be happening at this time in their life. The haven't had it defined for it yet. You in the back. The one who's only reading this because it's an attack on the current system. Go stand in line again.
I have a friend who is rather talkative, especially in group conversations. Except that all he says is taking the last opinion, then not even bothering to reword it. He's an excellent parrot. It scares me that no one else seems to notice this about him.
Mr. Johnson is wondering what I'm writing down. He never dictated any notes for us to take on this story. Why am I writing? God forbid I might be learning on my own.
Conforming to what they say I'm supposed to be would be so much easier if they just gave me a list of the thoughts I'm allowed to think. It couldn't be more than a couple of pages long.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have a religion class.
sniff...sniff...
Anyone been lurking under bridges lately?
Defenestrate Windows...
Intelligent people can have intelligent discussions on issues related to intellectual property, but pushing for ignorance concerning any point of view contrary to your own or even the law as it is currently written is just stupid.
-1 Flamebait me as much as you fucking want, it had to be said.
Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
is it just me, or is that seemingly quoted series of words not present in the parent? or did you just assume that deep down inside, he felt you were being condenscending?
" as there is a huge market for it. Just ask HMV, Tower, and Virgin"
Isn't Tower Records in Chapter 11 bankruptcy?
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
That would require thinking intelligently. How dare you suggest mods be required to think intelligently.
Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
I'm sorry, but the very fact that you think the RIAA (Recording Industry Association of America) is manipulating a British school program shows that you have insufficient knowledge to speculate as to what might happen with regard to it.
Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
God does not grant rights which the Government is duty bound to protect. If he did, then the Government's legitimacy and purpose would derive from God, and we would have a theocracy (in principle if not in practice). The Government's power derives from it's people, who grant it the rights deemed fit for a Government. Have a gander at the 10th admendment (which specifically restricted the powers of our National Government to those spelled out in the Constitution). You'll see what I mean.
God is not a safe thing to base a Government on. He's fickle, quick to anger and does really awful things when mad (like have his flock flip people upside down and saw them in half slowly). Hence the separation of church/state.
Our 'rights' can be derived just as easily from Natural Order than God. Natural Order decrees that certain rights must be inalieable for a society to function. This is a much sounder basis for a society, and I'd argue it's what the founders more or less intended (nice sounding rhetoric mentioning God aside).
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We shouldn't be using the term "intellectual property" either. It's their term, and it makes it sound like you can own ideas, which is contrary to the original intention of our entire system of content law.
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well if we are going to have specific lessons on specific items of 'bad' behaviour i think 'saving global companies' would be way down the list. Can't we have some more useful lessons for the little scumbags around here. here are some suggestions:
3 12yr olds on a 50cc scooter (without helmets)going full pelt down a seculuded footpath with blind turnings near where old people live is dangerous for everybody.
a gang of 15 youths stabbing a tourist is not good form.
its not a good idea to drive your go-ped on the wrong side of the road into oncoming traffic when there isn't enough room for the car to get out of the way.
I am too clever to fall for your wheely bin against the door prank. especially when you try to pull it at 10pm. yeah, i always get unannounced visitors at that time of night.
if you continue to annoy people locally then the next time you have a party the police will be called in for underage drinking. its called payback.
and i could go on. I think specific lessons about protecting the profits of multinationals would be on page 3872.
When kids are also taught about laws on corporate monopolies, human rights legislation and barratry, I'll support this.
Well if the music industry wants to educate children about the blessings of copyright - despite their support of "sampling" rap and RnB artists - I am sure they won't mind education into their industry's contracts that make artists subject to indentured servitude, which is considered illegal if, say, you had a border farm employing Mexicans smuggled in lorries. But apparently not in the great lobbying industry, sorry, I meant music industry.
Oh, not to mention they own your name while under contract. Gee, what a nice bunch they are. They truly deserve to decide what children learn.
Coming up in history education, a pamphlet from the NRA with the "real" version of the second amendment, which removes that confusing "A well-regulated militia" bit, which goes against the obvious need of individuals to own guns without the responsibility of being part of any defence force.
I hope someone hands out flyers or something at these schools, with a link to archive.org's netlabels page, to show that if a kid is thinking of becoming a musician, ey needn't get sucked into the industry.
Come to think of it, school libraries stocking up on All You Need to Know About the Music Industry wouldn't be too bad either, as that shows exactly how the big companies get away with not paying artists what they're supposed to.
Shameless plug: my free music.
But I'll expose my philosopy to you; think well about it before you criticize.
People get what they deserve.
For example, when the majority votes for a good president - they get what they deserve. The contrary is also true.
When people fight for their rights and have strong ideals - they get what they deserve. The contrary is also true.
When students advance academically while sensibly ignoring copyright laws - they get what they deserve: a good grade at a cost they can afford. Of course, the contrary is also true.
Forget morality and legality; on this planet, the rule has always been survival of the fittest. Where fitness is relative to the surrounding (physical, social, economical, legal, etc.) environment.
Don't believe me?
Have a look at Bill.
Knowledge is a right, not a privilege.
You get what you deserve - remember that.
- "They misunderestimated me."
The only thing they'll do is just the opposite of stopping kids downloading music... Heck, we know kids always tend to do stuff they're not allowed to (or stuff others tell them no to do)... I'm one of them so I know :).
:). Really, I don't have anything against teaching laws at school, but why not teach kids traffic laws to stop traffic accidents instead of copyright laws?
Brainwashing could be effective, however... Do you remember those songs with the silly beeps and messages from the artists in them that were cruising around on the p2p networks at a certain time? Well, instead of beeps, they could put the line "I won't download music ilegally anymore, I won't download music ilegally anymore"... I tend to fall asleep with music on and by hearing that all night, I'd probably be convinced...
Somebody mentioned that the teaching of laws could be useful... Sure, as long as it's not the brainwashing stuff like above
It is a large problem, causing many deaths and enormous damages each year. The coast guard cannot be everywhere, but the pirates can easily be anywhere. Piracy is a very violent crime, and often entire crews are killed and ships sunk after plunder. Not pretty at all.
...ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
I just left school, so won't have to suffer it :)
Anyway, this sounds crap. I refuse to believe that any such package will be even handed. What reference will it make with regards to fair use? ("You can't make a backup, you must pay for a new CD") What about lengths of copyrights? ("Copyright lasts forever and is passed down through lineage") Is this gonna be like those textbooks in California full of Pepsi ads?
Anywaym corporations are getting a big hold on schools over this side of the pond, as well as other public services. Blair just authorised the Private Finance Initiative, which allows coporations to own schools, hospitals and the London Underground. I won't even go into the unreserved mess that is British Rail (it's not fucking British any more, half the fucking network is owned by French companies). Welcome to the future, sponsored by Orange, where the water sponsored by Evian is cyrstal clear, where the air sponsored by ExxonMobil is fresh and there isn't a cloud in the sky sponsored by EasyJet.
By summer it was all gone...now shesmovedon. --
Or don't you question the logic of creating a public debate about copyright laws in a democratic society where millions use peer to peer software to violate those laws.
Teaching youngsters that something it baaad usually is the best strategy to get them to do it, whether it be sex, drugs or P2P. The British RIAA has just ensured that there will be a fresh generation of fanatical P2P users...
Come on, RIAA, 200 million people can't be wrong! Either change your CD prices, or go the way of the dinosaurs...
Support a Europe-related section on Slashdot!
When they came to the counter to make their purchase, I grabbed the little shit by his shirt.
So you assulted a minor that wasn't even breaking the law?
I don't sell sick stuff like Marilyn Manson or cop-killer rap, and I'm proud to have one of the most extensive Christian rock sections that I know of.
Unlike most people arround here, I do listen to mainstream music. I dont buy it though, and I certainly dont go to the effort of downloading it. There's about 60 radio stations in London, although I only really listen to Radio 2 and Magic. Worst comes to the worst I'll "listen again" to weekday shows like Wogan and Bruce on the BBC website. They always have something on.
The only MP3s I've got are stuff I've legitimatly ripped from my own (tiny) collection. Beatles, Beach Boys, Corrs, a few others. I listen to them on my player on the way to work (or I listen to the "listen again" programs, but they are harder to copy)
While it has always been technically illegal in the UK to make a "mix tape", or copy a CD to your own MP3 player, everybody does it, and the record industies and politicians encourage it.
The reason I dont buy CD's? Music nowadays is ten a penny. There's always something on on the radio, so why would I want to buy CD's when I dont even have the time to listen to the radio as it is?
noone questions cigarette taxes (another societal evil that no one questions because smoking's undesirable and it doesn't affect the nonsmokers that voted for it).
I find smoking quite annoying. Nothing like a room thick with smoke, making your clothes and everything stink. If you're drinking a beer, using "snus", sniffing cocaine, chewing pills or whatever else rocks your boat, you're not bothering everyone else around you. (Unless doing so makes you violent etc.) Even outdoors I find it incredibly annoying with people that sit down next to you, light up a smoke and let the wind blow it in your face.
What does that have to do with cigarette taxes? Can't people enjoy a cheap cigarette in their own home or out of everyone's way? Certainly. But in my experience, many smokers can't limit it to those places. Whereever they go, whatever they do they have to smoke and annoy other people. So I support the taxes so I can get rid of rude smokers. My apologies to all polite smokers that are collateral damage.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
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On a serious note:
Reading though what can only be descriped as a corporage propaganda leaflet you get a great idea of the angle the big labels are aiming for. It reads like: "Kids should learn to appreciate music, music is food for the soul, music is great, kids should learn to play instruments, kids should learn to respect copyright. You can easily teach kids to play the bongo, playing the violin makes kids smarter, copyright means you never have any right to copy, copying is evil, kids can really enjoy playing bongo`s, you will obey the brightly colored leaflets, schools should get much more cash for doing music"... etc.
Imagine if kids actually start making music, get ignored by the music industry who told them making music was great... put some recordings on p2p nets and get to do concerts right away just because of talent.
It would be great if kids end up learning about the actual copyright laws. It would be cool if you could explain kids the GPL while the New York times screws up on its concept. (ibm releasing to the public domain)
Way more serious:
Marketeers are often said to worry sick about the day that the 4+ hours of TV/day youth might end up being totaly resistant to advertising. Thats probably the reason why we have to endure GPS enabled coke can advertising campaigns. (and ofcourse a higher daily dose of advertising) I don`t passionately hate "multi-nationals". Anyway, not more then I dislike governments looking for the fastest way to get an easy to manage police state. But the idea of home economics teaching why brand name products are always better then store brand ones, and why you should always buy the newest kind of washing detergent because there is just so much progress in this product-line... well, that scares me.
I guess I for one welcome our new teachers and corporate overlords, Can I help placing that giant TV frame into the classroom?
I think this is a great idea. If you tell a high school kid not to smoke and the dangers of smoking, guess what will happen. ;)
I get the impression you may think that using "the same kind of bs" is a problem. I wouldn't agree. I'd only think of it as a problem if it was the only counter-argument offered against the RIAA... but it's not, there's quite a lot of healthy philosophical opposition to be had as well. IMO the combination of good philosophy and a bit of guerilla mudslinging is fine, and maybe even required in terms of the attention span and accuity of the wide audience that these messages ultimately have to reach.
This issue of sharing vs piracy terminology is one where I don't worry about "sinking" to anyone's level. People who share music do so for a variety of reasons including lofty philosophy vs the simple desire not to pay; while the RIAA would gladly impoverish the human race in perpetuity and kill a wonderful sharing technology, just for the sake of not having to adapt to a new economic environment. I think people on my side of this fence have a long way to go before we'll have sunk as far.
- First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
I wonder if there is a period for questions and answers during this "lesson". The first question I would ask is, "If ownership of intellectual property is as important as you, the film and record indusrty are telling me, Why not allow the creating artists (song writters, screen play writters, musicans) retain copyright ownership, and allow the record companies to collect royalties rather than the other way around which is the usual scheme?"
it already expired, noobie.
Intellectual property is a misnomer. In fact, arguing that copyrighted content is somehow property dilutes the meaning of physical property:
Treating ideas and the tangible expressions of such as property is a dangerous thing to do. On one hand, it dilutes the meaning of physical property - imagine a homeowner being forced to "license" his his front yard for a road expansion; he still legally owns it and pays taxes on it, yet cannot deny others from occupying "his" property. OTOH, if intellecutal property is indeed property, I could republish all of the songs on a CD without penalty, because "buying the CD" establishes me as the new owner - with full ownership of the content.
We should be talking about what is ethical, not what is legal:
- Is it ethical for a performer to get paid every time their work is played, even though there is no additional effort expended on their part?
- Is it ethical to use one's monopoly status to charge more than the content is worth?
- Is it ethical to deny developing countries the software they need because they simply can't afford it - even when additional copies costs the producers nothing?
- You say you love music. Fine - but do you respect the artists? Is it ethical to redistribute their work for free, to those who can afford the content, but refuse to do so out of pure greed? Would you do that to one of your friends?
- You say you don't like the DMCA. You've got DVD cracking software - you claim it is for your fair use rights..... But why do you demand fair use rights, and yet buy hardware that is designed to take them away?
Being ethical isn't merely a matter of obeying the letter of the law. We need instead to start thinking about how our actions are affecting those around us. It isn't purely a matter of copyright law, but rather, of how we view those people who produce the products we use.The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
If you did, i would be really suprised that you would feel that it is the schools job to teach morality.. ( THEIR version.. )
If you do, and are, then i feel sorry for your kids.. Being taught 'their'values outside the home.
And i was not saying it doesnt happen, i was stating that its not their job and shouldnt be happening..
Personally i do my best to UN-do the damage schools do on my children. Schools are to teach FACTS.. Family is to teach VALUES...
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Semantics of the word indoctrination [reference.com] aside, the reason this is so objectionable is that the kids aren't being taught the law as it is written, but the law the record companies use it.No, it is still the law as it is written, it is just that the record companies have written it. It is still the law.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
It did not expire, noobie. Otherwise all of these movies would also be Public Domain. A copyright expiration and a Creative Commons license are not the same thing.
Where have we seen crap like this before ... ? I know! In drug education.
This is a really scary analogy. What might happen to those caught file-swapping? Those sentenced for drug use or posession (even smalltime dealers who show no evidence of actual drug use) often receive the "choice" (thus a very weak claim that it's not being coerced) of 12-step-based "rehab/recovery" or group attendance at AA or NA in exchange for reduced sentencing (such as less jailtime). Not only are 12-step programs A Bad Thing, they are religious (despite the "spitirual not religious" claim) and it is illegal for a Government agency in the US to force attendance. Such attendance is often required by judges, parole officers and other authorities who don't reveal their own 12-step membership - an obvious conflict of interest, but supposedly covered under 12-step "anonymity". I'm not sure if Great Brittain has similar laws, but regrettably, 12-steppism has been exported around the world and members believe that "saving others' lives" by getting them into step groups is more important than silly laws or ethics that might get in the way.
Here is how the Twelve Steps of Downloaders Anonymous might read:
1. We admitted we were powerless over [downloading || P2P networks || stealing over the Internet] and our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our wills and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
Rather than bore you, you can google to brimg up many links to the steps, and just change alcoholics in step 12 to downloaders/mp3 addicts or whatever these people will label themselves with.
Tag lost or not installed.
In the future, the second-graders are stacked in desks three-high, watching an interactive television program titled 'Pepsi Presents Addition And Subtraction', starring aged actor Troy McClure wearing a Star Trek uniform.
Troy: Now, turn to the next problem. If you have three Pepsis and drink one, how much more refreshed are you? You, the redhead in the Chicago school system?
Girl [her face appears picture-in-picture]: Pepsi?
Troy: Partial credit!In the alternate universe where US companies only push an agenda within the US and in no other countries, your comment might have had merit.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
And you are a trustable source because....
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
Your ignorance of this just shows that your comment was based on preconceived bias against record companies and not on known facts.
Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
I think the really sad reason for this is the contiual underfunding of music and other non-core subjects since the introduction of the National Curriculum.
The Government is prepared to put the resources into funding "literacy hours" and "numeracy hours" (which by the way are normally 50 minute sessions) but is not willing to fund the arts, private organisations, with their own agendas, are expected to chip in.
While all children must obviously be literate and numerate, it is my opinion that they are more likely to do this if they are given a great variety of creative subjects which inspire them to care about learning for itself, and not just the next test.
Your conclusion that I was ignorant of this is false.
I hate it when people argue about alternate realities that exist only in their heads.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
Either you were ignorant of how the industry works or you were being disingenuous. Which one is it?
Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
Your claim was not that I was ignorant of the fact that the RIAA is a cartel of companies, but that I was ignorant of the fact that it was a USA thing. But either way, both such claims are wrong. "Company" has several definitions, and a cartel of companies can itself also be referred to as a company.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
Nowhere to run on this.
Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.
It is a trade group representing the interests of US record companies.
Which is perfectly compatable with it being a cartel.
I would also like to point out that you are apparently ignorant of the fact that the topic had drifted by then so it was no longer about just the British program.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
"I would also like to point out that you are apparently ignorant of the fact that the topic had drifted by then so it was no longer about just the British program."
No it hadn't. My post, which you were responding to, was clearly talking about the British program, not a fictional US one. Whats more I have repeatedly referred to it as the "British program" and this is the first time you have attempted to claim we are talking about US programs. You are clearly wrong. If any group is secretly writing the lesson plans it would be British and international record labels and trade groups, not the RIAA. Shut up and go home.
Mathematics is made of 50 percent formulas, 50 percent proofs, and 50 percent imagination.