Hollywood afraid of Microsoft

prostoalex writes "Associated Press claims that media industry has been quietly avoiding Microsoft and trying to keep the movie and music industries to their own. However, these days there's little chance of doing business without Microsoft and the movie studios are afraid of digital piracy more than they're afraid of Microsoft. The biggest fear? Microsoft will use its desktop PC monopoly to charge Hollywood outrageous fees and basically own the movie industry. Microsoft refutes the accusations, saying that it's only interested in selling more copies of Windows and applications for its platform, and providing movie content would promote the platform. Also noteworthy that among the four video-on-demand services that New York Times reviewed recently two that got the journalistic acclaim (StarzTicket and CinemaNow) are run by technology companies - Real Networks and Microsoft."

Comments

Polish in the Right Places

[mfh]

> The biggest fear? Microsoft will use its desktop PC monopoly to charge Hollywood outrageous fees and basically own the movie industry. Microsoft refutes the accusations, saying that it's only interested in selling more copies of Windows and applications for its platform, and providing movie content would promote the platform.

This is FUD. Microsoft can't own the movie industry because the movie industry doesn't even own the movie industry. The customers own the movie industry and if Hollywood continues putting out crap films, studio execs will only have themselves to blame for the fall of Hollywood. Obviously Microsoft doesn't want that to happen. They want to keep doing business with Hollywood and Microsoft is afraid of Open Source, so Billy's army of one will only have to start competing with Open Source in a way that is fair and honest (not "Best Practice", True Practice), or Microsoft too will only have themselves to blame when the palace of cards comes tumbling down.

I see some parallelism here between Hollywood and Microsoft. Both are too big for their own good and it's about time they realize it and start acting like they have something to lose if they don't change their tactics.

I just saw a Canadian movie today called Shot in the Face (2001). Yes the fans at IMDB give it an under-rated 5.6/10, but to me the film had a unique plot, interesting characters and it was fun -- it was just low budget, but it still brought a smile to my face. Obviously not A-list by any stretch of the imagination. My point is that large organizations take something unique out of films, and they also take something unique out of software and operating systems. Polish sometimes ruins things, and both these industries have ruined their products by either having too much polish in all the wrong places, or by have not enough polish in the places that matter.

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[Short Circuit]

Sure they can't own the movie industry...but they can certainly give themselves a stranglehold over its distrobution resourcse.

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[garcia]

The customers own the movie industry and if Hollywood continues putting out crap films, studio execs will only have themselves to blame for the fall of Hollywood.

Yes, yes, the will all only have themselves to really blame but who will they blame instead? Any outside force that they can; the weather, the people, the pirates, the actors, the staff, Microsoft, the theatres, the lavish party planners, whatever.

Bad movies are put out because people still go and watch them either in the theatre or later on DVD. They will always have a market because there really isn't competition out there. It's not exactly as if we have a large group of movies to choose from every week...

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[KontinMonet]

Some people have a great problem just with English so no doubt adding Polish might ruin things for them...

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[Anonymous Coward]

you could always just not go to the movies. paying $7 or more for something you don't really enjoy is rather ridiculous, don't you think? between the library, the internet, and whatever sort of cultural scene you can find, i see tons of competition.

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[Webs 101]

I just saw a Canadian movie today called Shot in the Face (2001) [imdb.com]. Yes the fans at IMDB give it an under-rated 5.6/10, but to me the film had a unique plot, interesting characters and it was fun -- it was just low budget, but it still brought a smile to my face. Obviously not A-list by any stretch of the imagination.

But, really - just how big is the market for bukkake? And are you sure it only brought "a smile" to your face?

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[Anonymous Coward]

The customers own the movie industry and if Hollywood continues putting out crap films, studio execs will only have themselves to blame for the fall of Hollywood.

I have a useful metric for valuing entertainment. It's called "the paperback book". I buy books that I think look reasonable, and that I'm likely to read many times; trashy read-once crap comes from the library. A paperback costs $7 or $8, and probably takes 2 or 3 hours to read. I'll read it several times. If you're offering some form of entertainment that's more than $10 for 2 or 3 hours of enjoyment, or which is a one-use only thing, you'd better have something special.

Good British TV comedy (Father Ted, Blackadder, ...) I will buy. Most of the hollywood nonsense? I'd probably pay $2 to rent a DVD if I was really really bored, but no more.

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[bhima]

And a stranglehold over the financing!

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[gl4ss]

the customers PAY for the movie industry to make movies(or rather pay for getting to see the movies), when they pay they don't get a stake in the company that produced the movie or get to reap money when they recommend the film to their friends and they go see it.

there is actually a word for a company that is owned by it's customers(and as thus giving all the profit back to the customer-owners as the companys only reason for existing is to provide a service for the people that own it and _not_ to make profit but just to break even), i don't know the word in english though. the big movie companies however are clearly not customer owned, instead they're owned by private investors with the sole purpose of giving a return on the investment(true, sometimes this is best done by doing good movies, most of the time mediocre ones that are sure to sell are good enough for them though).

that is hardly what you would consider 'owning' to mean, or microsoft wouldn't own themselfs by that definition then even.

anyways, what owning in this microsoft-movie_industry sense is meaning is just that microsoft would have the upper hand against movie industry and thus able to milk them dry(with license fees and whatever they come up with).

hollywood, still, while big is just a place. with many companies. but none of them would like to give the profit margins to micrsoft(because once they do that there's no going back and they got no guarantee that ms won't leave them with the short end of the stick since ms can do that kind of a thing and survive).

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[GoofyBoy]

The AC raises excellent points.

>Competition in MOVIES not in other media formats.

I think the AC was addressing;
>Bad movies are put out because people still go and watch them either in the theatre or later on DVD.

The competition is in how you spend your time and money.

You don't go to the opera or the latest polka festival (if you do, lets assume you don't). Its not becuase there is a lack of competition in those areas but its because you have better things to do with your time.

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[garcia]

You don't go to the opera or the latest polka festival (if you do, lets assume you don't). Its not becuase there is a lack of competition in those areas but its because you have better things to do with your time.

No, it has nothing to do with that at all.

It's because I don't like most opera and polka. I do like movies at times. I would especially like it if more good movies were put out onto the screen and home-use formats. Because there is little competition in that market there are only a few movies that will get released because there just isn't the monitary backing to fund a bunch of special effects and bad acting.

Perhaps if there were more than a handful of major players more of what I liked would be released.

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[Abundantes]

Actually not.
Directly, that is.

AFAIK Hollywood is depending on the revenue of homevideo and dvd sales, since apparently the revenue generated by cinemas isnt large enough to earn anything substantial, largely to the immense cost of marketing.

So if they're really depending on homevideo and dvd's all kinds of pay-per-view or download technology that's developed is potential (and very real) concurrence and a very real danger to their wallets.

Logically, there are two ways around this: Obtaining a cut from the revenue of the pay-per-view cash or creating a delivery system that can compete with the download/streaming systems.

But you can bet that Hollywood has a careful eye out to all developments in that field.

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[sleepnmojo]

The customers own the movie industry and if Hollywood continues putting out crap films, studio execs will only have themselves to blame for the fall of Hollywood.

Have you read the news lately? They blame it all on pirates. Poor quality isn't the matter with their films, its piracy. Guess they never sat through Gigli.

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[upsidedown_duck]

It's not exactly as if we have a large group of movies to choose from every week...

My favorite choice each week: none of the above.

The last time I went to a movie with my wife, we spent something like $25 on tickets and concessions, the movie was awful, there were people talking behind us, and someone with huge hair in front of us. Even with our crappy old TV at home, I'd rather rent for under $4 and have mediocre microwave popcorn than go to a movie theatre. Also, I can drink beer during a movie at home, if I want to--I'd like to see a big-name theatre try allowing that!

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[Anonymous Coward]

.but they can certainly give themselves a stranglehold over its distrobution resourcse.

With Kazaa and the like, it seems distribution will be easy once you have a good digital projector that can display the downloaded content.

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[Anonymous Coward]

There are lots of rich people in the world. Just consider how LoTR got financing... This guy sued John Fogerty for sounding like himself, and then leveraged the profits of Credence Clearwater to eventually run Tolkien Enterprises. If you're creative enough, even financing shouldn't be that hard a hurdle to overcome.

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[GoofyBoy]

>It's because I don't like most opera and polka.

And therefore you have something better to do with your time. Having more competition isn't going to change this fact. (Ok, maybe if you are really weak-willed)

>I do like movies at times.

But do you like bad movies. Suppose all the movies you saw were bad for the next 10 years. Would you still like movies and spend your free time and money on them?

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[the unbeliever]

The AMC Buckhead Backlot 6 in Atlanta does exactly that. It's a movie theater/restaurant, and is quite successful.

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[Anonymous Coward]

Not to be a grammar nazi but:

Sure they can't own the movie industry...but they can certainly give themselves a stranglehold over its distrobution resourcse.

Did you italicize that word because you wanted emphasis or because you mis-spelled it? It's spelled distribution. Not trying to be a bastard, just trying to make sure everythig is on the up and up, that's all.

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[Anonymous Coward]

But do you like bad movies. Suppose all the movies you saw were bad for the next 10 years. Would you still like movies and spend your free time and money on them?

Apparently you didn't see the final episode of Mystery Science Theater 3000....

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[Mad Bad Rabbit]

Also the Alamo Drafthouse in Austin, TX.

Plus, while we sipped beers and waited for Spiderman II to begin, instead of the usual barrage of ads they were showing episodes of a hilariously bad Japanese Spiderman knock-off. (I had no idea Spiderman owned a rocket-car or a giant battle-robot!)

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[abb3w]

Sure they can't own the movie industry...but they can certainly give themselves a stranglehold over its distrobution resourcse.

[sic]

Mmmm... no. On the one hand, Quicktime is competition; if backed into a corner by Microsoft, the movie industry would be humping up Apple's leg in no time.

On the other hand, "Hollywood" is not the whole of the movie industry. Leaving aside the black sheep of the family (pr0n!), there's also Bollywood, and a shlode of independents. Of course, they won't be spending $70M on production and $50M on marketing, but that doesn't mean that they can't put out good movies. The special effects may be cheezier, but heck, I still play Angband and NetHack.

I suspect that, much like lots of little Indie music bands putting out MP3s on the cheap-and-easy, some people may start putting homemade movies up in [insert favorite format] on the Torrents. They won't get rich, and 90% of everything up there will be poorly made crap... and thus, probably a better ratio than we get today. =)

Now, perhaps M$ can end up in control of Hollywood -- given "reasonable" terms, and perhaps a little backmail ("We've 30 billion lying around... maybe we should start a movie studio? Whadayathink?"); but they don't DARE try to drive Apple out of business-- they've already been a convicted monopolist once, they don't want to deal with that again. Ergo, the little guys will continue to roam wild and free... for a little while longer.

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[homer_ca]

Sure, it used to be you could always sell a lot of tickets for a crappy blockbuster by advertising the hell out of it before opening weekend, but customers have technology working for them too, like this: Movie Industry Blames Texting for Bad Box Office.

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[the unbeliever]

That looks bad-ass, even if it does have quite the cheese factor.

The fact that it appears to be a legitimately licensed "series" is also quite cool.

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[Anonymous Coward]

" just saw a Canadian movie today called Shot in the Face (2001). Yes the fans at IMDB give it an under-rated 5.6/10, but to me the film had a unique plot, interesting characters and it was fun -- it was just low budget, but it still brought a smile to my face"
You are not Canadian by any chance are you?
Out to shill for the pathetic Canadian Film Industry which is only sustained by American movie companies doing some filming there for low cost reasons?
Who gives two hoots if you saw some crap Canadian film that "brought a smile to your face"?
Exactly who do you think you are anyway?
You are just one human being.The fact that you happen to like quaint, moldy old Canadian movies doesn't make them any good, does it?
And btw, box office receipts in the US this year is running AHEAD of last year's, due to such superb movies and blockbusters like Spiderman 2, Shrek 2 etc etc, which the movie going public simply love.
Where exactly is the problem here, dude?

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[Anonymous Coward]

A paperback costs $7 or $8, and probably takes 2 or 3 hours to read.

I can't afford to read that fast. But that means I get more value for my money than you crazy speed readers. Slow down and save!

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[Anonymous Coward]

"...so Billy's army of one will only have to start competing ... in a way that is fair and honest..."

"HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!" - W. Gates

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[red floyd]

The customers own the movie industry and if Hollywood continues putting out crap films, studio execs will only have themselves to blame for the fall of Hollywood.

Blasphemy! It's obviously those Evil Content Pirates(tm) who are responsible for any falling box office income!

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[Darby]

The Vic in Chicago has Brew and View when there isn't a concert on.

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[Anonymous Coward]

Moooooo.

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[Anonymous Coward]

you can more easily communicate with people in your town instead of having to go through stupid lessons in school about supposedly proper grammer. that stuff is a waste of my time. i stopped following those rules a long time ago because it's easier to type without having to remember to capitliaze every other fucking word.

Or, the rest of us could just recognize that you're a brainless prat with delusions of adequacy.

Start practicing saying "Would you like fries with that?"

It's indicative of how far you'll be able to progress in life with *that* kind of attitude.

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[Downside]

The customers own the movie industry

But the marketing departments own the customers...

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[Anonymous Coward]

you are an ignorant person. i hate it when someone comes along and tries to deflate someone else's justified argument by just responding with a non-sequitir like: "moo". To the "mooooo" poster, I HATE YOU more than Hitler, Satan, all the Jews on the planet, George W. Bush and all that is evil an reviled. You are a worthless sack of warmed over shit and pus in a baggie. You are so incredibly low on the totem pole that I can't even comprehend how it is that you are even alive because you are so dumb. you have no value to anyone. not yourself, not your parents, no one that you delusionally call your friends, not your co-workers, not god or the devil himself, NO ONE. In fact, when the devil was sitting around tryig to gather souls to add to hell, he looked at yours and tried to give you to god, but god said he doesn't allow your sort in because you are so worthless and annoying. I hate you with every fiber of my being and would love nothing more than to banish you to exile in another dimension where you would be sodomized by gigantic red ants every second of every day for all eternity. Piece of shit. Mother fucker. son of a bitch. You aren't worth the shit to smear you with. fucking disgusting faggot bastard!!!!

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[Anonymous Coward]

u bastard!!!! i am a database designer for a fortune 1000 company!!! i am 38 years old and have 15 years of experience in the biz. I know how to use DB interface design tools like Power Point and Photoshop and then I have my code monkeys make it work. that's a far cry from working in some pathetic fast food restaurant. i am almost pulling down six figures at this point and I got here by working hard at learning to use all the programs i've downloaded with p2p software. unlike the rest of you chumps, i didn't go to college but applied myself with technology. i am now one of the technology elite (or digerati as i prefer to think of myself). while you were wasting time at university, i was busy keeping up with the latest applications for designing the look and feel of business software. so screw u!!!! if your jealus of my abilities, then do something about it! get one of the P2P programs and download Photoshop and Powerpoint and get yourself a decent job.

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[Anonymous Coward]

u bastard!!!!

Sorry, but there are two things wrong with this statement:

1) I did not attend Bastard University, and indeed, I am not sure one exists. However, if it is your alma mater, I stand corrected.

2) Four exclamation points indicates a median age of 13 years... just so you know.

while you were wasting time at university, i was busy keeping up with the latest applications for designing the look and feel of business software. so screw u!!!!

Sorry, but there are at least three things wrong with this statement as well:

1) I was not wasting time at university.

2) Four exclamation points indicates a median age of 13 years. Apparently, you forgot.

3) Invitations for sexual contact over the internet are not generally appealing to anyone past puberty. Please seek homoerotic satisfaction elsewhere.

if your jealus of my abilities, then do something about it! get one of the P2P programs and download Photoshop and Powerpoint and get yourself a decent job.

Finally, there are at least two things wrong with this statement as well:

1) I'm not jealous of your inability to spell, your inability to carry on a socially acceptable conversation, or your prepubescent rage. Once you get out of that awkward stage you are so obviously trapped in, this may change. But I (and I'm sure 90% of all Slashdot readers) doubt that very much.

2) Since you advocate the use of a P2P program to download copyrighted software, you obvously have the morals of a Congressional Lobbyist. I pity those who have to work with you behind the counter, and if I knew who your manager was, I would strongly suggest you be placed on permanent Used Fry Basket Oil Collection duty.

Thank you for playing. As the old saying goes (specifically in regard to your intellect):

"You have been weighed and found wanting."

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[Anonymous Coward]

Hawt dayum!!!!! u r a muthah fuckin' prickass!!! 4 ur info, using exlamation points is a way of emphasizing what i am saying. So learn how to use them otherwise i can't hear your puny ass. so look bitch. u got no right to dis me that way just because u r'nt as successful as me. y don't you go fuck yourself because there isn't no one else who wants to? U can't touch what i got because i'm better than you. always have been and always will be. that because i'm willing to bet that i make more money than you do. i get more ass than you do. i look better than you do. i'm smarter than you when it comes to real world knowledge and experience. face it bitch. you lose on every count. it takes intelligence to get to my position in life. i'm a manager and a DBA/database designer. i've got more DB skillz in my pinky than you'll ever have in your life. i work for a fortune 1000 company. we sell a mapping product that *I* designed from the ground up using Photoshop, PowerPoint and Macromedia Director. i've got a staff of 15 coders at my disposal to make any of my visions become a real product. I come up with the ideas, the look and feel and they do all the stupid monkey work of coding the backend in VisualStudio. just because making money and gr8 products is what I do best is no reason to hate me. oh but yeah, i forgot ur an idiotic asshole. get off your hihorse and start giving me the respect i deserve because you know i'm better than you.

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[Anonymous Coward]

start giving me the respect i deserve

That's exactly what I *have* been doing, sonny.

Perhaps once you manage to get out of your "gangsta-ghetto-badass" pose, and start to face the ACTUAL world, you

*might*

learn how ADULTS interact with one another.

But for now, all of your swearing and yelling and horrendously bad spelling just serves to demonstrate that you have the I.Q. of a grapefruit.

It's a hard truth, but you should probably face it:

You're a moron. Please, take all of your teen angst and sublimate it into learning how to become a better person.

But for now, I can't really take anyone seriously who goes by the name "Puffy Puff-Blow Daddy" or whatever you call yourself.

Please... grow up, or go whole hog into the gangsta lifestlye and get shot dead already.

You are irrelevant. (But an awful lot of fun to tick off... I haven't had this much fun since I was a child, poking anthills with a stick. But then again, there's an almost one-to-one correlation: you mean about as much to me...)

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[Anonymous Coward]

so how old r u bitch???!!! im 38. if you are calling me 'sonny', then u gotta be at least 60. that means ur old and irrelevant to the future. i've still got some years left in me with lots o skillz and i plan to be a millionaire by 40. i don't call myself any ridiculous names because the people who know me respect me for who i am. u haven't even begun to see my anger because u haven't made me angry at all. ur just a stupid bitch who thinks ur 'all that'. but realy ur just a looser without a clue. i could do u a favor ad hit you upside the head with a clu by 4, but ur justnot worth the time bitchass. u just wait, when i'm on top i'm going to prove to everyone that i made it with my mad skillz. and when i'm being interviewed on the CNN for being a rich mutha, im going to tell the world that for all the haterz and lamerz like u, i made it to the top! just wait and see. then u'll feel sorry bitch! ur going to want a piece of the action and im just gonna spit on you from on high. ur just a weakling pathetic looser and i will always be better than u. you think that dis about the anthill was cool? u don't know nothin about stylin. now i'm gonna snap at you!!! if u were a nanoparticle on the ass of a piece of the aides virus on a pile of dog shit sitting in a filthy piss stained alley in st. louis, i might notice u. but since you are a million times less than that, i can't even hear u. you are a looser a quajillion times over in every way shape and form. when u popped out of yo mama's twat, she thought she had vd. u so low now bitch. and i'm ridin' high!!! booo yah!!!!

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[Anonymous Coward]

im 38

Ah. Your IQ.

u haven't made me angry at all.

You lie, Beavis. You know I've made you angry. Anyone else who still reads this topic can see it. Your anger is as clear as the pimples on your junior-high face.

Has your voice changed yet, or have you learned all these nasty words from watching shows that Mommy says are a no-no?

i can't even hear u

Once again, you LIE.

If you couldn't hear me, why would you bother responding?

Face it kid. *I* am the one in control of this conversation. You can't even walk away. Everyone in the world who reads this knows that you're getting slapped up one side and down the next, but you're simply too ignorant to notice.

To recap:
1) you ARE angry
2) you DO lie, and
3) you're an ass.

Now, you may calm down, and deal with problem one, but I doubt you'll ever learn how to tell the truth and deal with problem two.

As for problem three? Well, Beavis, I'm pretty sure we all know how much chance there is of you NOT being an ass...

Enjoy your Disneyland of Depression.

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[Anonymous Coward]

u r so full of shit!!!! u assume that you have even the slightest impact on me just because i use strong language and exlamation points. that just proves u r an idiotic asshole. just to prove my point im going to answer your idiotic points of view:

you said:

To recap:
1) you ARE angry
2) you DO lie, and
3) you're an ass.

1. nah. i just like fuckin with stupid people like u. u haven't even sparked true anger in me at all.
2. im not lyin. what makes u even say that? maybe it's because ur lyin? gotta b.
3. that's funny. i'm not round and i don't have a hole that looks like your mommas face. i don't have hair encrusted with shit like u do. so i'm not an ass. u r'nt an ass either. ur an asshole.

so booyah!!! b-sides, how do u know that you haven't been TROLLED!!!!! :O

YHBT, YHL, HAND, FOAD

Nice one though.

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, Beavis.

m going to answer your idiotic points of view

See? I *told* you I was in control of this conversation.

It must frustrate you to be unable to control a conversation... much as it probably frustrates you to be unable to control your bodily functions.

im not lyin

Yes, Beavis, you ARE lying. You're in self-denial. You simply can't stand it that you're being schooled.

A cursory examination of your previous statements by anyone with an IQ over their waist size demonstrates my point.

It really *is* a shame that you are unable to grasp this concept, but I'm pretty sure we all know what you've really been grasping at all this time...

u assume that you have even the slightest impact on me

I KNOW I have impact upon you Beavis.

Your very *need* to respond is proof of that.

If you really had the central nervous system of a paramecium, you'd know that you've been overmatched at every point, and completely demolished.

But, of course, you are unable to recognize this. Will you have enough awareness of your own humilation to walk away, and stop demostrating your abysmal lack of basic social awareness?

Of course you can't, Beavis.

I OWN YOU.

I'm playing you like a fish on a line.

And when I get tired of it, I'll cut you loose. Simple as that.

Deal with it, kid.

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[Anonymous Coward]

You really don't know a good troll when you see it do you? It's been fun, but I'll be leaving now. Deal with the fact that you've been schooled. What I can't fathom is how you continued to fuel this even when it was so obviously a troll. Do you really thing that someone out there is that stupid? Yes the world is full of idiots, but there is a limit. My characterization above was merely an act. However, I've grown tired of this game. I'll play again next week if you can find me. Last word: bye. Thread ends.

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah, Beavis... you just can't admit defeat, can you...

It's just so SAD.

Pathetic is overused... I think a better term to describe your actions on this thread might be

"wretched"
-or-
"servile".

So, the question of the day is this: Has Beavis learned that he's been trounced?

I doubt it. As evidence, I submit to the rest of you Slashdot readers that Beavis will not be able to stand *not* having the last word. He will just *HAVE* to make another comment to demonstrate his "superiority".

("superiority" of course is antithetical in this instance, but I'm sure you'll see what I mean)

And now that I've just written the above comment, I've demonstrated that, again, I *own* this kid. He doesn't DARE post again, because he'll prove me right (*AGAIN*), but he doesn't dare NOT post, because he needs to have the last word to shore up his self-doubts about his own worth as a human being.

Exquisite agony, isn't it? Let's watch him squirm together.

One more thing, Beavis - you might want to look up http://www.bartleby.com/61/53/W0025375.html for an excellent description of who you are, and how you've been played.

Bye, kid.

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude. Who the fuck cares about either of you? The fact that you both drew this sad display out so long and that you (yes Mr. Bartleby I'm talking to you) HAD to have the last word makes you, in particular, look like the real loser.

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[Anonymous Coward]

IAWTP

Mooo Mr. Bartleby.

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[Anonymous Coward]

heh... you do. if you didn't care, you wouldn't still be reading this old post!

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[Anonymous Coward]

The GNAA applauds Mr. Bartleby in your support of our views. We are interested in your ideas and would like to subscribe to your news letter. Bravo Mr. Bartleby!

Re:Polish in the Right Places

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been watching this trollfest with interest for the past week. It looks like it's finished, but I'd have to say the true victor is the idiot because he "signed off" and IDed as a troll before the other person had a chance to. Winner != intelligent person in a troll war. Loser != dummy in a troll war.

Yes, MS is the only bad guy here, no really...

[garcia]

Microsoft views these deals as thawing its icy relations with Hollywood and eradicating old stereotypes about Microsoft software being buggy.

Well of course it can't as it has been proven time and time again that it is indeed buggy and exploitable. It seems to me that the current methods for playing movies in theatres works pretty damn well and it isn't exactly as if MS' deals are going to make distribution inexpensive enough to become attractive.

Yet Microsoft can't quite shake fears that its real intention is to use its monopoly position to charge Hollywood outrageous fees to access the computer desktop.

They charge everyone else astronomical licensing fees and speculation that it will only get worse is running rampant - probably justifiably so. Would they really cut Hollywood such a sweet deal as to protect them forever from licensing fees that would make this cost prohibitive? I doubt it. I would really like to know exactly how MS is trying to sell this to them.

To be honest though, I am fairly impressed that Hollywood is actually making a stand and telling them off. I don't know too many other businesses that would be so wary.

...studios say they need to encourage competition so they won't be held hostage by one company.

That is one hysterical comment that was only for the benefit of those that won't RTFA.

Re:Yes, MS is the only bad guy here, no really...

[gd23ka]

"To be honest though, I am fairly impressed that Hollywood is actually making a stand and telling them off. I don't know too many other businesses that would be so wary."

Hollywood and Microsoft are organizations immersed in deceit, manipulation and treachery but not stupidity.

Aww, that's so cute

[Anonymous Coward]

I love it when the monopolies... err I mean, monopoly and oligopoly fight.

Antitrust

[Klar]

Hell, I'd be afraid too if the Hollywood movie Antitrust has much truth behind it.... watch out for the little geek people bigtime Hollywood types.

Yes...

[kev82]

So is microsoft trying to get all those renderingfarms and such to windows?

Re:Yes...

[Mateito]

No, the article spells "Own" with a letter.

The Valenti Effect

[cvxdrk]

Maybe Hollywood will lose their luddite tendancies now that Jack has finally ended his reign? (wishful thinker)

The enemy of my enemy is ... my head hurts.

[TheUncleBob]

With MPAA on one side and Microsoft on the other, I just don't know who to cheer for.

Re:The enemy of my enemy is ... my head hurts.

[Short Circuit]

Use some strategy from C&C, man. Wait 'til both armies are on the battlefield, then nuke the field. :)

Re:The enemy of my enemy is ... my head hurts.

[Anonymous Coward]

If we could make BG and JV to shake hands, we could have them with just one bullet!

Re: The enemy of my enemy is ... my head hurts.

[Black Parrot]

> If we could make BG and JV to shake hands, we could have them with just one bullet!

Yes, but for us non-violent types it would still take two pies.

Better to let them have a falling out, then get them when they kiss to make up.

Re:The enemy of my enemy is ... my head hurts.

[Geek of Tech]

>> With MPAA on one side and Microsoft on the other, I just don't know who to cheer for.

Couldn't we just pray for fire and brimstone?

Re:The enemy of my enemy is ... my head hurts.

[meringuoid]

With MPAA on one side and Microsoft on the other, I just don't know who to cheer for.

Don't cheer either one of them. The winner will emerge stronger than either, and free from doubt.

But Hollywood cannot fight Redmond, unless it first obtains the Mandatory DRM Act...

Re:The enemy of my enemy is ... my head hurts.

[Tackhead]

> With MPAA on one side and Microsoft on the other, I just don't know who to cheer for.

Coming this summer to theaters:

MPAA v MSFT: Whoever wins, we lose

Re:The enemy of my enemy is ... my head hurts.

[The_REAL_DZA]

With MPAA on one side and Microsoft on the other, I just don't know who to cheer for.

Oh, there're plenty of possibilities!!

1. The giant space rock from Armageddon
2. The giant space rock from Deep Impact
3. The giant space rock from Night of the Comet
4. The giant rabbits in Night of the Lepus
5. The giant spiders in Invasion of the Giant Spiders
6. The giant leeches in Attack of the Giant Leeches
7. The giant woman in Attack of the 50 Foot Woman

And the list goes on and on and on...

Re:The enemy of my enemy is ... my head hurts.

[EvilTwinSkippy]

I'm just trying to figure out which one is the Alien and which one is the Predator.

The both are a bit awkward and they couldn't sneak up to a deaf man in a disco. It's more like the velocraptors and the T-Rex going at it at the end of Jurassic Park.

(And if you haven't seen AVP, it really is worth watching in the theater.)

Re:The enemy of my enemy is ... my head hurts.

[payndz]

Clearly, the entire West Coast must be destroyed for the good of humanity. Now, I know this involves sacrifice - San Francisco is a nice city, Apple are in Palo Alto, and I'm told Seattle is kinda cool. But think of the long-term benefit - no M$, no MPAA, no RIAA, and no never-ending procession of shitty movies!

Advance warning: Joss Whedon, Steve Jobs, John Lasseter and Holly Marie Combs - move about 150 miles inland, right now!

(The next stage will be a targeted strike on Utah to take out Orrin Hatch and Darl. You know you want it!)

Hollywood and microsoft

[bunburyist]

The suits who run the studios are so disconnected* from the techies in the render farms that such issues never enter their brains.** And to big-corp-think, of course, free software -- free anything -- is an abomination and unclean anyway. Understanding this, IMO, is key to understanding everything from the [MP|RI]AA's reaction to piracy, to Microsoft's reaction to Linux. In their perfect world, you pay for everything; more specifically, you pay them for everything. The idea that anyone might be able to get useful stuff for free wakes them up in screaming nightmares. This is not rational cost-benefit analysis. This is a clash of worldviews as fundamental as Galileo's with the Church.

--

* I'm not claiming any special insider knowledge of how Hollywood studios work. This is my guess based on my experience of how big corporations work in general.

** If they have brains. Or hearts. Or courage. All of which are highly debatable.

Re:Hollywood and microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

The idea that anyone might be able to get useful stuff for free wakes them up in screaming nightmares.

Of course it does as they are profit-based entities. They like to make money and lots of it.

Do you really think that there is some free alternative to what MS is offering that will come with the backing and support that MS is likely willing to offer as part of their "deal"?

I think that money for the technology has only a part to do with why the studios are uninterested in dealing with Microsoft. They are uninterested because they fear that MS will then completely control what happens with the content they create on the medium.

Oh, you need an auto update, ok, click through this EULA which will give us an even larger percentage of your profits.

Re:Hollywood and microsoft

[krog]

Are you implying that an industry would turn down something free (as in beer)?

Linux will never make it to the desktops, the productivity applications will forever be 5+ years behind. But on the other side, in the render farms, Linux has already replaced more expensive solutions like SGI and Solaris. It's free, and it works just as well or better. People in charge of enormous corporations like that sort of thing.

Re:Hollywood and microsoft

[GoofyBoy]

>** If they have brains. Or hearts. Or courage.

If movies have taught me anything, its that one quick trip to the Wizard of Oz can fix this!

Re:Hollywood and microsoft

[Goonie]

Linux will never make it to the desktops, the productivity applications will forever be 5+ years behind.

Are you telling me there's been any genuinely significant improvement in Microsoft Office in the last 5 years?

Re:Hollywood and microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you implying that an industry would turn down something free (as in beer)?
Linux will never make it to the desktops, the productivity applications will forever be 5+ years behind.

Perhaps you just answered your own question right there. The movie industry is not just renderfarms, and people go with what they're comfortable with.

Re:Hollywood and microsoft

[Azureflare]

productivity applications will forever be 5+ years behind

I don't know about you, but Microsoft Office 2000 is still more than enough for my desktop productivity needs. I can't imagine why I'd need anything newer.

And yes, it runs on linux, with CrossOver Office ($40).

Also just discovered this great desktop publishing app, scribus. I've been using pagemaker, and after having my pagemaker file mysteriously get corrupted after a period of a year on windows, I discovered that I'm not doing anything in pagemaker that scribus won't do. Sure, there are some things pagemaker does that scribus will never do. I just don't need those features.

Personally I think that the myth that linux isn't able to have productive applications is a myth that needs to be dispelled.

Re:Hollywood and microsoft

[krog]

No, there hasn't. And the productivity suites that run on Unix/Linux still haven't caught up -- and even if they did, we still lack a coherent, consistent, elegant and usable "desktop" interface.

Re:Hollywood and microsoft

[shufler]

I was going to offer up Clippy as an example, but suffice it to say, he hasn't gotten any more annoying.

Office 2003 supports (tablet) inking directly to documents (.doc, .xls, .ppt, etc) out of the box, which is handy for editing and other such features (like drawing on your slides to get your point across).

Re:Hollywood and microsoft

[krog]

Personally, I favor MS Word 5.1 for the Mac, which is over ten years old. No word processor, before or since, on any platform has matched the power, simplicity and functionality.

Now of course Linux can have productivity apps that don't suck. It's just that no one has written them yet.

Re:Hollywood and microsoft

[Sepper]

Are you implying that an industry would turn down something free (as in beer)?

I think what he means is that a typical suit doesn't believe in the 'no-strings-attached'. A suit usually work for money and think money. Anything that isn't in this realm of thinking is mysterious to them

"How can you can a product/service without spending ressources? How can such a thing survive?"

It's not that they will never adopt Linux, it's just that they can't project anything about it. If everything was Capitalism this 'linux' thing wouldn't be. So why is it? They can't quite grasp the concept of altruism or doing things 'for fun' because they gave up this concept of 'fun' years ago.

At least, this is what I see from personnal experience... Once you get high enough in any buisness, you tend to lose touch with the 'hard' reality and everything becomes numbers: Spendings, profits, time, etc... And it's becoming hard for them to see what they exactly do... it's just money going around.... Well, except for Linux...

Re:Hollywood and microsoft

[Planesdragon]

Are you telling me there's been any genuinely significant improvement in Microsoft Office in the last 5 years?

Yes. The most obvious being the HTML/XML support, internal program smart tags (2002 and 2003 will actually ask you, in a rather quiet way, if you want them to stop or undo an automatic change), and a slew of things that interoperate with an MS server.

Oh, and Excel's Pivottables, new data formats (in 2000 - four years old, and not likely to go anywhere soon), Frontpage sucking way less than it did in 1999, and a plethora of other minor changes.

Re:Hollywood and microsoft

[PsiPsiStar]

If movies have taught me anything, its that one quick trip to the Wizard of Oz can fix this! .. or that we had the answer all along?

Re:Hollywood and microsoft

[Archibald Buttle]

I subtly disagree.

Big corporations with people in charge who have no understanding of modern technology or people don't view free software (or free anything) as "an abomination and unclean". They just view it with deep suspicion.

This is perfectly natural. If someone you had never seen before was giving away free burgers on the street you might view that with suspicion. If somebody approached you and said "here, take this truck - it's free" you would view that with suspicion too. You would be right to do so in both cases. The burger could of course be tainted meat and you could end up being poisoned. The truck will need gas and insurance, and could end up being rather expensive.

Big companies look at free software and think "this can't really be free - what's the catch?" They are right to ask that question. Often it is difficult to do a real cost-benefit analysis with free software, and so the free solution gets ruled out as its true cost is unknown. Unknown cost is riskier than expensive.

Re:Hollywood and microsoft

[The_REAL_DZA]

"...People in charge of enormous corporations like that sort of thing."

Maybe, but the people just down the hall from the people in charge of enormous corporations like to have someone at whom to point the ominous finger of blame if (and inevitably when) something goes wrong. Sooner or later, somebody (and I'm not saying it might be someone in the employ of everybody's favorite villain. I'm NOT saying it. No way!) will launch an attack against everyone's favorite open-source OS and find some nasty little holes that nobody's ever noticed -- that's not a criticism of any individual, the open source "community", humanity in general, or anything else -- that's just plain common sense; nobody's perfect and therefore nobody's OS is perfect, no matter how hard we try to make the perfect one. That realization and the fact that Mr. IT Manager Dude doesn't want this script to play out in Mr. Bigwig's office someday:

Mr. IT Manager Dude: "Sir, our supply-chain server was attacked by the HRPuffinStuff virus last night, and everything's gone."
Mr. Bigwig: "HRPuffinStuff, eh? I heard something about that the other day at the club...Johnson's server over at Amalgamated was wiped out! I warned him about using that "freebie" software. Say...how did it affect our servers, I thought HRPuffinStuff only attacked...that other stuff?"
Mr. Dude: "Well, er, uh, well..."
Mr. Bigwig: "Oh, I see. Well..." [signature flick of the hand] "...you're fired."
Mr. Dude: "But sir! My department came in 40% under budget last quarter! You were so proud you said you wish I had married your daughter!!"
Mr. Bigwig: "That budget was for you to spend to keep me in business, not to save and put me out of business!" [muttering] "Why isn't this darned trapdoor button working?" [louder] "Uh, take about three baby-steps to your left. No, wait, not your left but my left."
Mr. Dude: "What? Oh, yes sir. NOOOOOooooooooooooo..."

is what's maintaining the "status quo." He'd much rather it went something like this:

Mr. Bigwig: "Fleeson! What's wrong with my supply-chain server?!"
Mr. IT Manager Dude: "Oh, those torpid mooncalves over at IttyBittySoft have done it to us again, sir! We were hit by the HRPuffinStuff virus last night and it'll be about a day and a half while they come up with some sort of a patch. Meanwhile, though, if you need me I'll be sitting on top of the cluster singing it a soothing lullaby -- no, it probably won't help, but just in case..."
Mr. Bigwig: "My God, man, what about your wife? Your family? Your golf game?!?! No, I can't let you waste your life here because of the incompetency of those...uh, what'd you call them again?"
Mr. Dude: "Oh, torpid mooncalves, sir."
Mr. Bigwig: "Yes, yes, that's it...good one, Fleeson! And, you're sure there's no alternative to their product?"
Mr. Dude: "Well, sir, I know how you fear, er...what is it you called it...oh, yes, 'that freebie stuff'..."
Mr. Bigwig: "Quite right! Besides, we can't go fooling around with things the shareholders wouldn't understand, like that stuff, but they sure understand the incompetence of IttyBittySoft! (You know, they're not as 'tech savvy' as we are!)"
Mr. Dude: "Oh, no Sir!
Mr. Bigwig: "Now, show me again how you start that nifty Solitaire program..."

"CYA" is still "Management-101" in a lot of books!

Re:Hollywood and microsoft

[ratboy666]

You mean StarOffice didn't edit HTML? You mean OpenOffice doesn't use XML? You mean that Excel actually does stats correctly?

Ratboy

Re:Hollywood and microsoft

[Planesdragon]

If you want a "What MS Office 2003 has over OpenOffice 1.2.1", I can do that (And I'll start with "floating tables, you bastard"). The question was "What does Office 2003 have over 1998?"

Re:Hollywood and microsoft

[macshit]

No, there hasn't. And the productivity suites that run on Unix/Linux still haven't caught up -- and even if they did, we still lack a coherent, consistent, elegant and usable "desktop" interface.

A shame, no doubt, but Microsoft doesn't have that either, and they're number one.

Well... I'll give them one thing though: the latest versions of windows have very bright colors. AGH! MY EYES! #*&J>n.

Re:Hollywood and microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

That's what Red Hat is for. Paying for services? Fits nicely into the usual PHB mold, so they understand that.

I think it would be more accurate

[scotay]

If you replaced the word 'afraid' with 'jealous.'

The movie industry

[Anonymous Coward]

And the movie industry is the nicest bunch of people you'd ever want to meet. No vendetta's, no black listing, everyone operates above the board. Every movie star is the perfect role model for our children.

If they get mixed up with the likes of Bill Gates, I just don't know what this will do to our shining example of what Americans are really like?

Don't wanna deal w/ MS?

[oasis3582]

Simple. Don't buy into their DRM scheme. Release movies on the net with a proprietary or with another vendor's IP for DRM.

If Hollywood had their way...

[Agent Green]

Hollywood is generally the greediest of them all. After all, if they had their way:

• There'd be no video rentals (i.e. Blockbuster, Hollywood Video, your neighborhood shop).
• There'd be no video recording devices (VCRs, TiVo, etc).
• There'd be no internet...because we all know about the evils of peer-to-peer networks (according to Orrin Hatch)

So I guess they really have two outputs: Movies and FUD.

Re:If Hollywood had their way...

[garcia]

If Microsoft had their way there would be:

no selling of their software on EBay.
no ownership of the software after you purchase it (they really own it you just license it from them)

I guess MS has two outputs: Software and bugs?

Re:If Hollywood had their way...

[Anonymous Coward]

umm, the only way films make money now is DVD sales and video rentals. everyone hears about the extravagent opening weekend pulls for films, but save for a couple of box office hits, the real money is made in all of the little extra's that go with a film, DVDs, t-shirts, posters, other little silly trinkets. only a couple of films out of the throusands of films made each year will ever make any money in large theaters. The cost of shipping the film itself is what kills any sort of profit possibility.(a film ussually comes in 4-6 steel cannisters that weigh a bunch and therefore cost a bunch to ship) Theaters have been trying to go digital for years to cut the cost of shipping the films themselves, but the instalation cost of the equiptment needed is whats stopping theaters from going ahead and switching over.(theater houses don't make any money off of showing movies either, they make it off consssions. friggin 5$ hot dogs...) Lucas film has tried to get the ball rolling, and had minimal success. Its a shame too, Digital projection is much better quality than 35mm, Starwars Ep. 2 was shown one half of the screen digitally and one half 35mm, and the differance was astonishing.

As for microsoft and the film industry, i can see why they're hesitant, Macs are better platforms from an editing aspect, and with programs like final cut, which are tailored to Macs, adopting an industry wide windows desktop would be silly and severly limiting to large companies. i can also see the hesitation in that Windows is buggy, and i would not want to risk using a platform that could accidentally erase hours of work on a 33 million dollar movie. there are plenty of safe-gaurds, but i think i'll stick with a more reliable platform for my films.

Re:If Hollywood had their way...

[ConceptJunkie]

The cost of shipping the film itself is what kills any sort of profit possibility.

Are you implying it costs millions of dollars to ship some heavy tin cans around the country? I find that hard to believe. While digital distribution is clearly superior, when the infrastructure is in place, I find it hard to believe that moving the film around is a significant cost compared to producing the film, paying the actors and crew or marketing.

Re:If Hollywood had their way...

[Steve B]

Are you implying it costs millions of dollars to ship some heavy tin cans around the country?

Once the studios have gotten some sap to accept payment as a percentage of net, it can cost billions (according to Hollywood Accounting) just to buy the tin for the can.

Re:If Hollywood had their way...

[FrankHaynes]

I guess MS has two outputs: Software and bugs?

Does M$ distinguish between those two?

I'm more worried about Bill...

[FatSean]

...For all the accusations and hyperbole here, he seems a much more honest businessman than the hollywood crowd. Hopefully their sleazy(er?) practices don't rub off on Microsoft!

Re:I'm more worried about Bill...

[EvilTwinSkippy]

Cue jokes about the license fees from .NET, as opposed to .GROSS

Re:I'm more worried about Bill...

[Anonymous Coward]

Eh? What does the Get Rid of Slimey girlS organization have to do with this?

They brought this on themself

[beacher]

Remember a ways back when Microsoft announced codecs for use in digital theatres. I'm not sure of implementation #'s but this was when they could have staved this off. Trusted Computing, DRM are here because Hollywood was a huge proponent of these technologies. Here is your bed, Hollywood.

Re:They brought this on themself

[Stevyn]

Same thing with the RIAA. They could have acted quickly in the 90s and made their own iTunes like service. But they didn't, they fought it for years, and now they're worse off. As broadband becomes more common, it's feasable to download movies at decent quality. I'm not suggesting an MPAA movie distribution service because a 700 mb xvid movie doesn't "replace" a DVD like an mp3 replaces a song (mp3 is good enough for 99% of the people you ogg heads!). However, the RIAA's mistakes should have been taken into account when the MPAA sat on their asses and hoped the internet would "just go away."

No real 'favorites' here.

[etymxris]

Microsoft has shown time and time again that it's primary objective is making money in the long term. It'll do that through whatever opportunities present themselves. Now, the players in the movie industry aren't stupid. They've seen how MS has locked others into their proprietary formats and they don't want their revenue streams subverted similarly.

As for MS's "noble" intentions...pure bullshit. Where did MSNBC come from if MS wasn't interested in encroaching on Hollywood?

Re:No real 'favorites' here.

[Anonymous Coward]

Ummmm.... that is the objective of all for-profit corporations, Boris.

Re:No real 'favorites' here.

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft's objective is to make money?

How about, 'every' publicly traded companie's objective is to make money and increase share value?

Even your precious Apple and Google's primary objective is to make money.

No one in business has 'noble' intentions without a bottomline to consider.

Re:No real 'favorites' here.

[etymxris]

Look, I've heard this line a million times about how the only goal for corporations is to make money for its shareholders. But I disagree, as this greatly oversimplifies the picture. Some companies might decide to forgo trying to monopolize media formats, and concentrate on something like, oh, I don't know, making operating systems. Like Red Hat. Sure, both Red Hat and Microsoft are trying to make money for their shareholders. But that doesn't mean that they'll act the same way when presented with similar situations. A company can make money without being a dick about it. In fact, a company that has rightfully earned the trust of its customers can make a great deal of money. Microsoft isn't a company that has earned the respect and trust of its users.

The BBC isn't afraid... Hollywood could help them

[chiark]

Well, the BBC has rightly identified this risk, and is politely telling MS, and the other "controlled" DRM pay-per-hour-encoding people where to shove their technology.

DIRAC, the BBC-technology project to bring a new, royalty and patent free open source codec into life, has got to be worth looking into.

Surely someone with an ounce of intelligence in Hollywood could put 2+2 together and make 4. ie, Hollywood has money. DIRAC looks good, and could do with industry support and resources...

As our American cousins would say, "you do the math".

Re:The BBC isn't afraid... Hollywood could help th

[Anonymous Coward]

The URL for last Friday's slashdot article on DIRAC would help - posted anonymously so I don't appear a complete Karma Whore....
http://developers.slashdot.org/article. pl?sid=04/0 8/13/128249&tid=188&tid=156&tid=95

The enemy of your enemy is your enemy

[FreeUser]

With MPAA on one side and Microsoft on the other, I just don't know who to cheer.

Mutual annihilation (nuclear weapons optional)?

If the Media Cartels and Hollywood mutually destroyed one another, we'd not only see the renaissance in software we've seen in the free software world accelerate even faster, we'd see a renaissance in cultural expression as well.

Unfortunately the two are very likely to work out a sweetheart deal that destroys both and leaves us with nothing but a cultural wasteland in both arenas.

Re:The enemy of your enemy is your enemy

[jeffasselin]

I'll take a cue from Lord of the Rings here, and refer you to the suggestion to let Saruman and Sauron (the two main evils) battle it out and exterminate themselves, to which Gandalf replies: but the winner would get out of the fight stronger, and without doubt.

I think this is the case. I fear they would not exterminate each other, but most likely one would emerge the winner, and we the public would be the biggest losers. Better to let them stay wary of each other while we run an underground movement to defeat both opponents at once.

Re:The enemy of your enemy is your enemy

[4of12]

we'd see a renaissance in cultural expression as well.

This is key.

It would be interesting to see what would develop in the way of many small, low-cost productions vs the current business model that relies on high-cost per film blockbusters with low risk by using tried and true themes (eg, Alien vs Predator).

But I suspect even small time "open source" producers of cinema and music would find irresistable the attractions and audiences you get by mixing in just a little porn and bloodlust. It's human nature.

Re:The enemy of your enemy is your enemy

[Anonymous Coward]

So we send a short guy with hairy feet to Redmond to drop an old ring in the water cooler, and a bunch of rabid Redwoods to SoCal to level a few studios?

Works for me!

Re:The enemy of your enemy is your enemy

[PsiPsiStar]

Microsoft was made in the depths of IBM. Only there can it be unmade.

Without the Internet, where would Free SW be?

[tepples]

There'd be no internet

If there were no Internet, there would be no free software community as we know it and thus no GIMP, and if there were no GIMP, there would be no film customized GIMP. Heck, if there were no free software community as we know it, then there would be no GNU/Linux OS on which to run render farms.

Re:Without the Internet, where would Free SW be?

[Fred_A]

They used to render on SGIs before. The only point of FilmGimp and Linux renderfarms is that their profit margin is now bigger.

It has had zero effect for the public.

Sorry, it has had the effect that some software made it back to the community, so it has had an effect on a very small margin of the public after all.

Re:Without the Internet, where would Free SW be?

[Fred_A]

To complete (and possibly clarify) my post above, the geeks employed by the studios felt that they should give back to the community. The execs however didn't. I'm not surprised.

terminate them all and let /. sort it out

[phyruxus]

So lemme see... Microsoft is feared by the one thing that sends shivers down republican spines... Hollywood.

Is Microsoft therefore scarier than republicans by transitivity?

I mean, I know there's shades of grey and then there's shades of grey... but this is grey.

Hey, neat, instead of my Uncle, Bob's my parent.

Re:terminate them all and let /. sort it out

[Piquan]

Is Microsoft therefore scarier than republicans by transitivity?

My mom used to tell me that fear is not transitive.

Well, not in those words. But she did say that "they're more scared of you than you are of them". That leads me to believe that fear is not antisymmetric. Since I'm not afraid of myself, then I conclude that fear is not transitive. Smart gal, my mom.

It's also not total (Batman is the man without fear), functional (my nephew is afraid of many things), surjective (who's afraid of the big bad wolf, la la la la la), or injective (lots of people are afraid of heights).

Also, if we consider fear to be defined over the set of all things that anybody belives exist, then it's not reflexive (as I mentioned above), symmetric (I'm afraid of Galacticus, he's not afraid of me), antisymmetric (again, as mentioned above), trichotomous (I don't fear you, you don't fear me, and I'm not you), or extendable (since it's not total).

It may be irreflexive (I don't know anybody who is afraid of themselves, although my cat was afraid of his own reflection), but I'm not sure.

Some Land to Sell You

[ackthpt]

Microsoft refutes the accusations, saying that it's only interested in selling more copies of Windows and applications for its platform, and providing movie content would promote the platform.

If you believe this, I have some land for sale, just off the west coast, under about 3000 ft of water which is really Atlantis!

"all that is required is subversion, er, I mean submersion"

Re:Some Land to Sell You

[gtall]

M$ didn't "refute" anything, they "rebutted". Reporters should at least know the difference.

Counter to what MS has been saying

[hotsauce]

Yet Microsoft can't quite shake fears that its real intention is to use its monopoly position to charge Hollywood outrageous fees to access the computer desktop.

And of course this goes counter to what MS has been saying recently, and conventional wisdom. MS has explicity stated to shareholders that it has saturated OS and Office markets and is searching for new markets to grow profits.

Do antitrust laws prevent a monopoly from becoming monopolies in other industries?

Why not use the BBC's codec?

[denis-The-menace]

It's open source and everything

My thoughts

[zippo01]

Linux

That's all i have so say about that

If linux doesn't have the answer, Take sleeping pills

Microsoft

[Shulai]

"There were two fears," Buecheler said. "One was that Microsoft could buy the companies. The reality of that was just silly. Microsoft knows how to do technology and software. They don't know how to tell a story.

Didn't they are telling us stories about their software since 15 years ago?

Re:Microsoft

[EvilTwinSkippy]

Right. And Microsoft has no intentions of becoming an ISP, a media outlet, and video game content producer.

All those divisions just sort of "happened" too.

and...

[Chuck Bucket]

how is MS not a monopoly if they have this much influence over a complete industry? Everyone that works in the film industry that I know love Macs, but they see Win boxes all over for the 'serious' work. The whole suit against MS just seems to have not changed a damn thing if this is true.

CVB*($_(!#

Re:and...

[ViolentGreen]

Additionally, any time that I see a machine in a Movie/Television show it almost never runs windows. It either is very obviously a Mac or runs some generic OS. Last night, I saw the firs half hour or so of Final Destination 2 and it had a guy carrying an iMac in a box. It had no purpose whatsoever to the movie and they went out of their way to keep flashing the apple log.

Just thought it was interesting.

Blue Crush, Blue Streak, and now?

[tod_miller]

Blue Screen, coming to a cinema near you...

Slightly OT, but I saw this coming, alongside Microsofts patent scams, 'licensing' their API's (read, now they are established, pay for them biatch, whilst destroying other standards).

Microsoft are moving in subtle ways - they have the money to do this as well.

Now we can have bad movies that delete themselves, at least that saves us the trouble...

I wonder how long it will be before they dynamically or on the fly replace movie scenes and adverts within movies across the lifespan of the movie?

Re:Blue Crush, Blue Streak, and now?

[ElectricRook]

I wonder how long it will be before they dynamically or on the fly replace movie scenes and adverts within movies across the lifespan of the movie?

Oh Crap!

Now that's insightful.

You're on to something.

Distro..

[ackthpt]

Sure they can't own the movie industry...but they can certainly give themselves a stranglehold over its distrobution resourcse[sic].

Indeed, if Microsoft introduces a video/audio player with it's one proprietary encryption, then just gives it away Hollywood* would likely embrace it. Once all the investment is made, to convert media to this format and a few iterations of releases Microsoft, there could be no backing out and Microsoft would be calling the tune. I expect Windows Media Player is exactly this.

So what are the alternatives? Real or anyone else proprietary? Same kind of problem, really. Open Source? Don't make me laugh at your naivity, Hollywood wants super secret encryption and content control, don't think they could possibly own that with something open source, which could be bypassed with a minor hack. Looks like they're in between a rock and a hard place. Maybe they should change their business model -- make money on the performance and increase product.

AVP II anybody?

*Actually all AV media in a general sense

Re:Distro..

[Anonymous Coward]

AVP II anybody?

Shit, I haven't even seen AVP and now you're saying there's a sequel out?

Fuck, so did the predator win?

Re:Distro..

[GTRacer]

Open Source? Don't make me laugh at your naivity...

What makes you think F/OSS is any less secure? Because you can see how the lock is made? If it's made right, it shouldn't matter. If it's implemented right, it shouldn't matter.

And if it isn't, then someone can find out quickly and without fear of DMCA enforcement and let the coders know there's an issue.

Because in its long history, PGP has been hacked HOW many times?
GTRacer
- P.S. It's naivete.

Re:Distro..

[ackthpt]

now you're saying there's a sequel out?

Hardly, AVP just started playing Friday, though it made a pile at the box office, which in that biz usually guarrantees a sequel. IMHO it was much better than Alien 3 and Predator 2. Only problem for me is I saw the other movies so very little comes as a surprise -- it's pretty much down to, who's going to survive and are they going to do some lame thing like plant a baby alien in someone at the end.

so did the predator win?

Just go see it, I'm not going to post spoilers. Tho if you're familiar with Aliens (II) you might recognize Weyland, which was kinda cool.

Re:Distro..

[ackthpt]

If it's implemented right, it shouldn't matter.

The problem is you're taking the short view. The long view is all the main players, owners of large libraries of film, music, etc. encode stuff, they want it secure perpetually. They're paranoid -- many of the entertainment industry moguls fortunes were made by shamelessly exploiting people and keeping rights to things in perpetuity, why else would they have pushed for the seemingly endless copyright protection?

The reality is, they'll have to settle on something and take their lumps and foot the bill where they can (or better yet, get more laws enforced and have the public fund it) and crackdown on piracy.

Re:Distro..

[Anonymous Coward]

Because in its long history, PGP has been hacked HOW many times?

That's because the problem PGP solves is... well... solvable. DRM is the art of giving information to someone without giving it to them. Not just impossible, plain stupid. Now I'm as much a FOSS fan as the next (/.) guy, but I don't think it can do the impossible. :-)

Re:Distro..

[smittyoneeach]

Don't make me laugh at your naivity,
Now, it's only Summer; we'll laugh at grandparent's nativity around Christmas time.
For the moment, let's focus on grandparent's naïveté, OK? ;)

Re:Distro..

[Anonymous Coward]

My toe jam is better than alien 3, though.

Re:Distro..

[Tony-A]

What makes you think F/OSS is any less secure? Because you can see how the lock is made? If it's made right, it shouldn't matter. If it's implemented right, it shouldn't matter.

You can secure stuff going from a secure location through unsecure connection to another secure location.
You have immense difficulty with secure stuff going from a secure location through unsecure connection to an unsecure location.

If you can use X-Rays to see exactly how the lock is made, regardless of how it is implemented, you can easily open it.

F/OSS is good, but nothing is that good.

Re:Distro..

[GTRacer]

F/OSS is good, but nothing is that good.

My point exactly. The OP was implying that F/OSS was somehow inferior for secured applications. It is neither better nor worse inherently, but the ability to avoid "black-box" traps can be a major plus.

On the x-rayed lock: I agree that knowing precisely how the internals work makes it easier to break, but I think that if I can only see the internals and not how they're moving, I'm no better off.

Whether or not that applies to crypto is a matter for someone smarter than me.

GTRacer
- sigh

Re:Distro..

[LPetrazickis]

Entertainment moguls keeping rights to things? What rights? They don't have any rights, save for the might equals right one. The MPAA is stealing our collective human property from us and then having the nerve to charge us for access.

Re:The BBC isn't afraid... Hollywood could help th

[Anonymous Coward]

If Hollywood really are so afraid of Microsoft, maybe the first thing they should do is stop helping them? You now, small things like not allowing WMA9 to be an official standard in the latest specs, pushing WMA9 content to digital projection cinemas. It's a bit of a "Duh!" moment, really.

MPAA vs. Microsoft?

[dcavanaugh]

Henry Kissinger's comment on the Iran/Iraq war in the 80's: "Too bad they can't both lose."

Re:The BBC isn't afraid... Hollywood could help th

[dave420]

The BBC aren't doing that for some sort of ideological reason, but because they have to do "our bidding". They can't be in Microsoft's pocket by using their technology to encode the video streams - it has to be done in-house, and free of external licenses (also remember the license could extend to the client decoding side, which would mean every license-fee-paying-person would be automatically signed up as a MS customer)

I wish everyone here would stop equating "not microsoft" with "vehemently opposed to microsoft on an ideological level and smoking the open-source pole" - it is possible to just not choose MS and still think for yourself.

Cory Doctorow Was All Over This

[Doug Dante]

In his Microsoft Research DRM Talk

I'm a Microsoft customer. Like millions of other Microsoft customers, I want a player that plays anything I throw at it, and I think that you are just the company to give it to me.

What are the odds?

[Anonymous Coward]

Now maybe now we'll see a computer in a movie that isn't a Mac! ;)

Re:What are the odds?

[Big_Al_B]

Actually, I'd just like to see a computer in a movie that is what it is, and not some bastardization of Windows and Mac and usually some concocted audio/animated GUI nonsense where the "envelope" for an email folds up and disappears into a fake screen horizon upon "send".

Watching a movie and seeing a C:\ prompt on a monitor emblazoned with the Apple logo just bothers me.

The BBC story becomes relevant again

[mccalli]

Solution? 'Hollywood', or whatever conglomoration of companies that will really refer to (is Sony in Hollywood?), should write their own format and get their own software out there to play it. No licensing fees for use of the codec, wrapped in whatever DRM they fancy.

That's precisely the thinking behind the BBC Dirac idea, and it's the same sort of thinking that needs to be adopted here. And yes, I know the idea of the DRM is unpalatable - I'm trying to imagine things from the studio's viewpoint not the end user's.

Cheers,
Ian

Re:The BBC story becomes relevant again

[EvilTwinSkippy]

You mean like DVD, Divx...

a strange likeness

[RU_Areo]

We can't avoid Microsoft or Hollywood... maybe we should start complaining?

Re:The BBC isn't afraid... Hollywood could help th

[sql*kitten]

DIRAC, the BBC-technology project to bring a new, royalty and patent free open source codec into life, has got to be worth looking into.

Yes, well, I'll believe it when I see it. The BBC is funded by the British taxpayer to the tune of GBP 2.5Bn (that's around USD 4Bn) per year. All the material they produce WE ALREADY OWN. I should be able to download - or at least, buy for the cost of the media alone - anything produced by the BBC ever, simply by proving that I've paid the TV tax (which I have). Instead, the BBC is off on some ivory tower "let's invent a new format" wild goose chase.

There are already squillions of codecs. The BBC should just pick one and get to work encoding its video archives for download. Dirac is nothing but procrastination.

MS be abusive???

[Futurepower(R)]

Are you saying that wolves cannot be trusted to treat hens with respect?

They don't have Windoze in Hollywood

[Dr. Hok]

Did you ever see a computer in a Hollywood movie that was not a mac?
(Except WOPR, of course. Given its skills at tic tac toe it must have been a VIC-20.)

Re:They don't have Windoze in Hollywood

[Anonymous Coward]

I've seen quite a few PCs w/ unix on them or "unix like" OS's. Jurrasic Park had one I believe.

Re:They don't have Windoze in Hollywood

[Hitchcock_Blonde]

I think it was an SGI machine in Jurassic Park

Re:They don't have Windoze in Hollywood

[user32.ExitWindowsEx]

I saw a SGI Indy used to show some "satellite imagery" in one once.

Easy Target

[neilb78]

Something is wrong...blame Microsoft.

ROTFL

[Anonymous Coward]

But, really - just how big is the market for bukkake? And are you sure it only brought "a smile" to your face?

Yeah that was what Shot in the Face was all about. Nothing to do with a guy shot by a gun, or a series of interesting or funny situations, at all. It was bukkake -- really! /sarcasm

Re:Linux can't save you from hell

[Anonymous Coward]

Great username for this kind of work. You must be a priest or something...

The solution:

[MsGeek]

Used DVDs. That's how I usually scratch my moviegoing itch. Usually one can buy them for about $10...that's less than what it costs for two people to go to the movies even during matinee performances. The MPAA doesn't get my money, the pigopolists don't get my money, I get to see a recent movie, and if I like the movie I can watch it again whenever I want to.

If you rent instead of buy, there is a rental sales list that is published weekly, so the MPAA can keep track of what people rent. However, they don't have a list (yet) for used DVD sales. And unlike used VHS tapes, they can't dirty up your DVD player. Just give the DVD a nice wipe with a static-free wet wipe before you first play it.

Re:The solution:

[garcia]

Used DVDs from Hollywood Video are beginning to partially fuel the burning desire I have for expanding my movie collection.

Three DVDs for $25 is an excellent deal. My fiancee and I regularly end up paying $25+ for a night at the movies (between possible parking fees, tickets, and a box of popcorn). I get to see three movies without issue forever.

Works for me. Check your local rental stores and see what sort of deal they may have. The one I buy from has a 1 year guarantee on all the for-sale used DVDs.

Re:The solution:

[Anonymous Coward]

I use Netflix, for my "movie going" experience. The ratings on the site are tailored for my movie tastes. If the rating ways 4 starts chances are very high that I will give it 4 stars after seeing it. The more movies I rate/see the better the matching gets. The recommendations also lets me see movies I've never heard of but end up liking a lot.

Re:The solution:

[HeyLaughingBoy]

Three DVDs for $25 is an excellent deal.

And now here's a plug for Netflix :-) Three movies out at any time for $20/month. No late fees: I never knew how important this was until I noticed that I was no longer rushing to view a movie just so I could return it on time. We probably go through 6-7 movies a month on Netflix and they have a selection no local video store can match. Next best thing to Video On Demand.

Re:The solution:

[garcia]

Now, let's be fair here, we all know that after the first couple of trades you lose your priority status that you had when you first joined and you are relegated to the rack of bullshit that is either so miserable or foreign that no one wants them.

I can goto the video store, rent a movie for $2.99 and have it back the next night by midnight for a dollar credit (on select titles). That beats Netflix.

Re:The solution:

[Inda]

My local video rental shop has started to sell blank DVD-Rs. Are they trying to tell me something? Is there a hidden message?

Re:The solution:

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, I'm currently in a similar package with BlockBuster. I pay $20 a month ($15 for first month, cancel any time) and get to have two movies out at once. When I come in I just hang on to my old movies, pick out two new ones, and then make the trade at the counter. It only takes 15 or 20 seconds. It's really convenient since the BlockBuster is only 1/2 mile away.

I've done NetFlix as well but I'm much happier with my current service.

Re:The solution:

[Anonymous Coward]

I can goto the video store, rent a movie for $2.99 and have it back the next night by midnight for a dollar credit (on select titles). That beats Netflix.

Only if the video store is nearby and stocked with something besides crap.

Re:The solution:

[Gr8Apes]

If you're scraping bottom on prices, try the Movie Trading company. They have a sidewalk sale going on now for no art-work DVDs 5 for $20. Guaranteed for 30 days. No questions asked on trade in within that time.

Re:The solution:

[HeyLaughingBoy]

you lose your priority status

I'm not sure what this means, but the only movies I haven't been able to get are those labeled 'Not yet released' and we've been Netflix subscribers since February. Then again, we do prefer non-mainstream movies, so I guess they tend to be more available.

have it back the next night by midnight for a dollar credit

So could I, in theory. Problem is when I get home and I decide that (a) I'm really not in the mood for a movie after all, (b) wife decides to "distract" me from movie :-), or (c) I fall asleep and don't see all of it. Stuff like this is not an issue with Netflix.

The only physical video rental place I have ever seen that has a lot of the kind of movies I like is Discount Video on Hennepin Ave in Minneapolis (speaking of which, according to your website, I think I used to live a block or so away from you ... "Dacotah View apartments" sound familiar?)

Re:The solution:

[HeyLaughingBoy]

Sounds like a good program. The only problem I would have with it is that I never use my Blockbuster card. As in I haven't entered one of their stores in months simply because I can never find anything there I like.

Re:The solution:

[gr8_phk]

" Used DVDs."

I've been buying DVDs out of the discount bin at Best Buy. Mostly crap, but we picked 3 last time that looked good for $6.00 each. The time before that, we picked up 5 movies. It's a little more than renting, but you get to keep the movie (legally). Most of them are very old, but that's not usually an issue. If I want to see todays hot films I will go to a theater.

Why does Hollywood insist on providing movies on PCs where the "copy" command has been around since day one?

DVD was their "protected" consumer distribution method and it failed for several reasons. 1 - providing the content and the key to the consumer. 2 - because the system was enforcing a political agenda as well. 3 - poor implementation mostly due to #2 and ignorance.

Re:The solution:

[Anonymous Coward]

(b) wife decides to "distract" me from movie

If you're writing to brag about this, it likely doesn't happen.

Re:The solution:

[Anonymous Coward]

My local video rental shop has started to sell blank DVD-Rs. Are they trying to tell me something? Is there a hidden message?

Hidden message? I thought it was pretty obvious that rental places exist so that you can get a DVD cheaply and make a copy of it. Is that wrong? Should I not be doing that?

bad humor...

[NIN1385]

Holly used to like wood until Bill came over and she finally saw how micro and soft his was.

Re:The BBC isn't afraid... Hollywood could help th

[Anonymous Coward]

Proper link

WMV is now a DVD standard.

[caffiend666]

Didn't Microsoft get Hollowwood to include a specific WMV codec as a part of the next DVD standard? Hasn't Hollowwood approved that? Why are they giving MS control and complaining about? On second thought, why are most businesses giving MS control then complaining about it.

Re:WMV is now a DVD standard.

[KD5YPT]

Because Microsoft got monopoly. They got the money. And they're about the only game in town. That and the Hollywood don't trust anything open source, except when it saves them moneys.

Re:Linux can't save you from hell

[jcenters]

Great George Carlin Cut & Paste.

Hey, if you have to plagiarize, plagiarize from the best!

Coming to a cinema soon....

[pandrijeczko]

"Free Klippy" - the story of a boy's love for his penguin-eating killer whale...

"xXxP" - Vin Diesel returns as the tattooed secret agent. This time he's after Open Source Communists and he's only taking DRM for an answer...

"The XP Men" - see the superpower team of Dr DLL, Outlookman, Captain Codec, Blue Screener and The Worm battle the "Freedom Force" of Stallman, the Perlmonger, Apache and Python...

Re:Coming to a cinema soon....

[inkswamp]

I like "The Passion of the Clippy" better. You know... two-and-a-half hours of Clippy having the living crap beat out of him. Who wouldn't enjoy that?

"Hi... it looks like you're trying to pulverize me!"

Re:Coming to a cinema soon....

[EvilTwinSkippy]

"To crash another day" - Agent 0x00000007 takes on a malevelant hacker to twart his plans to take over the world with a killer virus: the "Hi, can I infect your computer" worm.

"x=x+28 days later." A man wakes up from a coma to find all the computers in the world have been reformatted by a virus to run BSD.

I Hope Microsoft succeeds

[SpermanHerman]

I would definitely like to see the *AA get raped on licensing. Payback is a bitch!!

Re:The BBC isn't afraid... Hollywood could help th

[turgid]

Dirac is nothing but procrastination.

Not really. It's actually quite an impressive and useful technical innovation.

MSNBC?

[buckhead_buddy]

Microsoft refutes the accusations, saying that it's only interested in selling more copies of Windows and applications for its platform, and providing movie content would promote the platform.

How does its content partnership with NBC News (aka MSNBC) help it sell more copies of Windows? The content is freely available over the television and unrelated to Windows. Sure they probably get headlines for their web portals, but it'd seem making a deal with cnn, fox, etc would be a smaller capital investment. Their intent seems to be to get into content.

Re:MSNBC?

[Anonymous Coward]

Although it has gotten better [1], I can remember when msnbc.com wouldn't render [2] in anything but ie.

[1] ah, nice subjective term, like the garbage I just hauled out to the alley doesn' stink as bad as cow shit, so its better.

[2] not even badly. several minutes to suck down whatever it decided was content, only to display a blank browser window. Even still, it decides to put shit (with appologies to fecal matter) in the oddest of places......

Re:MSNBC?

[Anonymous Coward]

"How does its content partnership with NBC News (aka MSNBC) help it sell more copies of Windows"
Easy.
MSNBC is the # 1 news site on the internet.

MSNBC is the only top American news site that streams FREE video news streams. (CNN and ABC make you take a subscription for video streams)

MSNBC uses Windows Media Player exclusively.

More consumers end up using Windows Media Player.

Windows Media Player ONLY runs on Windows.

More consumers buy Windows PC's.

Re:MSNBC?

[Bluesman]

>How does its content partnership with NBC News (aka MSNBC) help it sell more copies of Windows?

I have no doubt somebody could answer that, if anyone actually watched MSNBC.

This is GREAT!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

That means that we will have the movies in our spam-inbox before it reaches the theatres.....

Microsoft using Hollywood business practices?!?

[TopShelf]

That could lead to:

Windows II: Webcentric Boogaloo
Clippy Strikes Back
The Neverending BSOD

And many others too terrible to imagine...

Hollywood fears Everything

[sammyo]

But more than any-any-anything else, it fears losing money. So find an application (like, oh say, linux rendering servers) that saves significant money, and that crowd will jump at it. Give them a linux movie client that returns real dollar to them and they will jump at the new distribution media.

Remember: Hollywood will go with Linux if it Makes Money.

Re:Hollywood fears Everything

[multimed]

I'm not quite sure if I'm being facetious or not but...if what Hollywood fears most is losing money then why is it that that movies so often officially lose money. Granted maybe it's about minimizing taxes or something and whether a film loses money doesn't mean the individuals or investors for that matter lose it.

I think if Hollywood was so afraid of losing money they would make more of the smaller films moderate casts and minimal expenses. I think Hollywood's fear of losing money pales in comparison to it's lust to make boatloads of it. That's why there's all the blockbusters with the big budgets, because if they are enormous sucesses, the money will flow and most are willing to take the risk of failure for the possibly of a huge success.

That said I think the biggest factor isn't money at all but power & ego and control. Sure money helps but it's the only way to get it. Why do the studios spend so much lobbying for the academy awards? They don't really make all that much more money for anyone, but it's all about the juice. Look at me! Look what I did!

Re:Hollywood fears Everything

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

A movie usually won't break even in the box office, but it gets close. What most of the movie money is made from is DVD sales.

I know a few movies ended up making a nice profit with DVD sales factored in.

Re:Hollywood fears Everything

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

I googled, and here's the first link.

From the article I linked to:
"DVD "has changed the economics of the film," says Mike Dunn, president of Fox Home Entertainment, which is distributing Master and Commander. He expects DVD sales to account for half of the movie's revenue."

Re:Hollywood fears Everything

[BandwidthHog]

then why is it that that movies so often officially lose money?

I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that so much of their production cost and payroll structure is based on a percentage of profits. Nope, nothing at all.

Re:The BBC isn't afraid... Hollywood could help th

[Anonymous Coward]

it is possible to just not choose MS and still think for yourself.

Perkins! Take him away and have him shot.

Correct me if I am wrong-

[IWantMoreSpamPlease]

But aren't many of the big special effects done on non-MS platforms?

CGI, rendering, total animation, etc?

Re:Correct me if I am wrong-

[Anonymous Coward]

I've worked in the industry and Windows is not as dominant there as everywhere else in computing. It plays a role, but a smaller one than most folks might expect, usually non-critical tasks. I don't want to dis MS because I'm not one of those platform-devotees but I think one of the reasons cg work is done so well is precisely because MS isn't there so dominantly. I wonder sometimes why other industries don't look at Hollywood and see the success and good work there without a dependency on MS and put 2 and 2 together.

Re:Correct me if I am wrong-

[IWantMoreSpamPlease]

How the fuck does this get modded off-topic? Mods are on crack I tell you.

OT : 5+ years behind

[nurb432]

Only problem with that analogy ( which i dont personally agree with, but that aside the point ) is that a LOT of businesses and home users are using software and hardware that are already 5+ years old.. Remember windows 98 is that old.. So is office 97.. Both are in heavy useage 'out there' in the 'real world'.

And they are doing just fine...

Growing pains for the movie industry

[Simonetta]

The movie industry has had phenomenal growth in the past few years. They just keep getting bigger and bigger.

Each project (movie) is now an individual $50 to $200 million ?corporation?. A movie is a corporation that is its own product. And it?s a corporation that delivers about 2/3rds of its possible profitable return within a month after it is introduced to the public.
The stream of profit that comes from all the secondary sources (post-theatrical release, i.e. DVD & video rentals, TV broadcast, airplanes, hotels, ect...) are usually only 1/3 of what the theatre release generates and often quite less. Plus movies are beginning to have less time to recoup their investment since the average summer film loses 40% of its audience after its first weekend of release. And 40% each subsequent weekend.
Nobody would get into the movie business for the money today if they had any other reasonable choice. For the fame, the glamour, the sex, the excitement, yes, of course, but for the money alone as a business, never. Currently the global media companies (all five of them) are falling over themselves trying to unload their record/music divisions off onto each other. Nobody wants them. A couple of giant flops like Gigli and a run of minor flops like The Alamo and one or two of the major studios will go bankrupt.
The product (the movies) are selling like crazy in the total, but each individual movie is a total gamble. The high and rising out-of-control costs of production and marketing new blockbusters has made the entire movie business just marginally profitable regardless of how much heat, light, and excitement gets generated over any individual product film.
The situation will most likely get worse each passing year. Higher total revenues, shrinking core audiences, massive gambles on each individual product, shrinking total profits.

Home internet distribution really isn?t going to help Hollywood out of this situation because internet distribution puts medium budget specialty films on the same level as raging blockbusters. People will continue to go to the theatre for the blockbusters and download the specialty films. Since audience attention spans and free time for media consumption is limited, downloaded specialized and targeted films will only cut into the audience?s funds that currently go to blockbusters.

This is just the news that Hollywood doesn?t need and that is why they are wary of home internet film distribution.

A blue screen coming to a cinema near you!

[Anonymous Coward]

I should take pictures of all the failing NT atms and ticket machines here in france, but i'd end up not having time to even take a p*ss.

Hollyweird BEING charged high $$$'s? 'Bout TIME!!

[Anonymous Coward]

If there's even the remotest possibility that the Hollywood thieves might get some of what they've been spreading around for decades in the form of ridiculously high ticket and concessions prices (oh, yes, the concessions ARE high because of Hollywood; it's classic "trickle-down" economics!!) then I say let's just vote Bill Gates in as King of the Country right now and sit back for the show (Heck, I'll even offer to bring the popcorn!!!)

This is just Alien vs. Preditor

[jimbro2k]

This is just Alien vs. Preditor "Whoever wins, we lose"

Re:Linux can't save you from hell

[Anonymous Coward]

already posted my mistake. Yes, I'm a huge fan and I commited a major major oops.

But the whole thing was off-topic anyway and those that read it will hopefully already know it's Mr. Carlin's work, and if not then everyone jumping on me for not giving him credit will point them in the write place!

Yet another reason...

[Anonymous Coward]

This is yet another reason Microsoft should, and eventually will, bite the dust.

Get smart, people, stop using Micro$oft products. You're better off without them. Linux can do more, faster, and better - and at a much lower price.

Re:The BBC isn't afraid... Hollywood could help th

[Ender Ryan]

Yes, but helping others, even as a result of helping yourself, is Evil(TM) and only commies would do such a horrible thing.

Hollywood knows better than to get involved with open sores.
</sarcasm>

Anyone ever hear of efforts in Hollywood to help the poor, victims of disaster, those without healthcare, or anything to benefit mankind, EVER?

There are a few actors/actresses who give a shit about the rest of the world. From what I can tell, the rest of them are a waste of human flesh.

With good reason

[hey]

There's no need for the movie biz to rely on Microsoft. They can develop their own tech -- then they'll own it. Maybe there's a startup with a system now they can buy.

Re:With good reason

[EvilTwinSkippy]

Yes, but they learned something the hard way with DVD. Unless you control the players, you don't control jack. Their whole region coding scheme was rendered null and void as soon as software DVD players became available.

They want Microsoft buy in so they can have customer lock-in. (Keep in mind, this is an industry that has already been broken up by Antitrust courts before. In addition to producing and distributing movies, they also used to own the theaters.)

Kiss your Internet GOOD BYE !

[B_SharpC]

The new Internet 2: Censored.

The new revised Internet sequel, Internet 2 coming to a PC near you is a fully censorship based controlled media. Enjoy the old free Internet now while you can.

http://www.newswithviews.com/public_comm/public_co mmentary7.htm

Although I am enjoying liberal Hollywood taking a beating for dumping their nonsense leftist movies on us, Microsoft would be worse. MSNBC is a failure. (MS = Microsoft)

Ths new Internet 2: Censored, should make Microsoft our official Censorship Czar for the U.S.A. (*sigh*)

Re:Kiss your Internet GOOD BYE !

[Christianfreak]

Someone needs their tin-foil hat adjusted.

Perhaps you don't realize this but the first Internet started out the exact same way. Controlled by Universities and the government. I kind of doubt even with the introduction of Internet 2 all the companies that control the current Internet are just going to go away, especially if the general population can't access Internet 2 like the article says!

So relax, your vote still works, Bush, as annoying as he is, is not a dictator, and the FBI already has Carnivore watching you anyway so encrypt your emails, at least make them work for it ;-)

And most likely in the future Internet 2 will be integrated into the current Internet.

Re:Kiss your Internet GOOD BYE !

[Anonymous Coward]

"Bush, as annoying as he is, is not a dictator"

# 1, Bush has tolerated more outright hatred and vicious attacks, with more grace than Clinton and his Nazi attack machine led by James Carville ever did.
Unlike Clinton and the hate-filled "Democrats" President Bush recognizes that attacks (even nasty, vicious pieces of Nazi propaganda and disinformation like Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 911) are part of American democracy.

and # 2, its Kerry and his rabid attack dogs who are ALREADY trying to throttle anyone who dares to criticize Kerry's treasonous antics during and after he came from Vietnam (including Kerry joining in plotting to assassinate US senators at a meeting in Kansas City).
If John Kerry is already trying to intimidate and physically threaten those who criticize him before he becomes president, just think what a oh Kerry presidency will be like
John Kerry is going t make Hitler look like the Boys Scouts.

Fortunately, John Kerry is not going to win. President Bush is going t clobber this clown!

Bears biting asses

[LiberalApplication]

I see some parallelism here between Hollywood and Microsoft. Both are too big for their own good and it's about time they realize it and start acting like they have something to lose if they don't change their tactics

The picture that keeps popping into mind as I'm reading this is that of two obese bears locked in a wheel-like formation with each biting the other's ass, rolling down a hill towards a cliff.

Their paranoia is worth jack shit

[hummassa]

Don't trust me, trust Schneier on this: once you deliver the encripted stream *and* the key to somebody, there is no security at all.

Here's the solution

[kindbud]

The *AA organizations should instruct their men and women in Congress to pass a low forcing Microsoft to provide DRM at no charge. I'm sure there's a Homeland Security argument that can be pasted onto such a bill to make it fly.

After all, in America we have the best government money can buy.

Damn...

[Anonymous Coward]

I can hear microsoft slathering from here!!

Is there a chance that Microsoft will kill MPAA?

[melted]

Now that would be a victory whole slashdot could enjoy. Read this for more details: http://vai.com/AllAboutSteve/postcard_040220.html

Guess what, I quote:

For instance, If you go to Itunes and download a song for $.99, Apple retains about $.34 and the label receives about $.65. Labels then calculate a royalty base price to apply to the artists deal points. Following are some of the deductions:

a. A packaging fee (container cost) of up to, and sometimes more than, 25%. That's 25% of retail which is $.99 equaling about $.25 (by the way, there is no packaging on a digital download).

b. A 15% deduction for free goods. That's an additional $.15 or so. (There is usually no free goods with digital downloads unless someone is ripping it from the net.
That leaves a royalty base price of close to $.60 per track that the artists royalty is calculated against. If an artist receives 15 points in their deal (and remember, that's a very good deal) then he is entitled to aprox. $.09 a track. This is then cut in half because of the "new technology clause" that is incorporated into most deals. The artists royalty is then calced out at $.04-.05 a download and from that, 100% of it is withheld by the label to go towards recoupment of any advances to make the record, advances in general, tour support, radio promotion and other things in some cases. Most managers and producers are paid from record one and are paid regardless of the expenses, leaving the artists with even more of a recoupment burden before they start to see any income.

Quote ends. Suddenly hollywood people look like Mother Theresa.

Alien vs Predator obligatory quote

[FatTux]

MS x Hollywood: Whoever wins... We lose.

Changing In-Movie Ads

[JaxGator75]

Actually, this is quite an idea. They already have the technology to replace "Coke" ads for "Pepsi" ads on live TV during soccer/football/baseball games, so it's not too far of a stretch to think that they could replace "Lexus" for "Microsoft" and then again for "Hudson Hawk 3: The Glistening" at their leisure.

I'm sure the DVD releases will replace all those ads with self-serving ads, like previews fro the newest "Studio ABC" release, or simply a shout out to their own company! I'm still sick of all the product placements from "Minority Report" and I feel it's only going to get worse. . .

Hollywood has itself to blame

[Anonymous Coward]

If Microsoft ends up 0wning the movie industry then Hollywood has nobody to blame but themselves: by following the RIAA's luddite "head-in-the-sand" approach to technology they're:

1. leaving the door open for MSFT and RealNetworks
2. screwing their own clients over through lack of leadership and choice

Hopefully the new head of the MPAA can see outside of his own rectum. It's a wonder that Valenti survived the whole Sony/Betamax fiasco: he basically fought strongly against the biggest revenue generator his industry would ever see. It's frustrating to see history repeating itself, but with the "wait and see" Hollywood mindset it's almost a foregone conclusion that they will be Darwinized.

The enemy of my enemy

[JohnnyGTO]

is my enemy? You know these guys screw up EVERYTHING, even a good saying.

"Rebuts", not "refutes"

[Animats]

Slashdot needs editors who can edit.

Maybe if Slashdot outsourced editorial to Bangalore, things would improve.

dilemma...

[Bobzibub]

I'm not sure who to root for!
= )
-b

Re:dilemma...

[ct.smith]

It's like a Godzilla movie. Neither monster is the good guy (OK, Godzilla vs. Mothra aside), you just hope not to get trampled under foot.

Re:dilemma...

[Hitmouse]

It's customary to post spoiler warnings when divulging the details of movies we haven't seen. I needn't bother seeing Alien vs Predator now.

Stupid question time!

[budgenator]

Hollywood wants super secret encryption
Firstly a stupid question is one that questions a premise that everyone falsely believes to be true so here goes

If encryption is a methods to allow two trusted parties to comunicate without an untrusted third party understanding the communication; how could Hollywood, use it to comunicate with an un-trusted consummer? Obviously they can't. Some how, some way Hollywood has to give the decryption key to the untrusted for viewing and no matter how obfuscated the key is, it has to be available and therefore breakable.

Re:Stupid question time!

[ackthpt]

no matter how obfuscated the key is, it has to be available and therefore breakable

Exactly. At some point they have to realize they can only do so much. Amazingly it's taken decades to bring out some of the stuff we've always wanted from the vaults -- old films, TV shows, and maybe maybe classic events in news or sports (they are playing some classic old football games, but imagine being able to choose the game you want to watch -- what did the end of the 'Heidi' game look like?) Produce and outstrip the pirates, undercut the prices of the pirates. It's amazing what people showed they were willing to spend to have a copy of a movie on Laser Disk or Video Tape -- too bad Hollywood still thinks it needs to charge high prices, which are the greatest contributor to piracy.

Re:Stupid question time!

[lamona]

No, they don't have to give the key to an untrusted party. What they do today is give the key to a piece of software that is itself encrypted. That's how Adobe PDF and various other secure document formats work. The transaction that takes your credit card number and prepares a file for you to download reads a hardware ID off of your machine (CPU, usually, but can be the hard drive or something else). The encrypted file that you have received also has an encrypted version of the key that opens it, but that key will only work if it finds the matching hardware ID on the machine it is on.

The Adobe PDF format was hacked (remember the Russian programmer who came to DefCon to explain how it did it and ended up in a US jail?), but not because users got the key... the encryption wasn't terribly strong and Sklyarov figured out how to open the files without a key.

Now watch this swing!

Re:Stupid question time!

[eofpi]

no matter how obfuscated the key is, it has to be available and therefore breakable

Exactly. At some point they have to realize they can only do so much.

As much as we'd like them to, they won't until they have no other choice.

These are people that think even less logically than the archaetypical PHB, so they think that computers can do the logically impossible (the reasoning of which would likely scare me for its stupidity and oversight of the obvious). Until that is forced down their throats, they won't get it.

I think the fears are right

[MemoryDragon]

Almost every company who did business with Microsoft basically was screwed by them in the end. IBM, Stac, Borland, Sun (who had to fight tooth and nails so that M$ didnt take over java), Mosaic (who had to fight for years to get a decent compensation for the Mosaic code, Netscape and a ton of others I think Hollywood really should try to avoid them as much as possible

Conspiracy!

[rupert2000]

They have just thrown the name Microsoft to distract everyone from Real Networks slipping into the scene. Lets not forget to mention the crappiness and anonnying nature of their software and their love of inventing their own proprietary file formats.

Actually, Microsoft is a convicted monopoly

[VidEdit]

It's wierd to see people try to say that MS is not a monopoly. JP Morgan only wished his monopoly had been complete. You don't need to actually have %100 percent of a market to be a monopoly. 96% is more than enough...

Re:Actually, Microsoft is a convicted monopoly

[cpghost]

Monopolies don't last. As soon as they don't have any reason to compete anymore, they turn into a burocratic monster and disintegrate from within. Some monopolies take more time to dissolve, but that will happen eventually.

Remember how IBM (Big Blue) was the evil monopoly before Microsoft? They are still very big and powerful, but certainly no monopoly anymore. Actually, they escaped annihilation because their new CEO took very good steps to open them up to the world.

Will Microsoft lose its monopoly? Certainly. Perhaps not in the next 2 to 5 years, and probably not in a spectacular fashion. It will happen gradually, due to lack of innovation. We won't even notice their slow decline on a day to day basis, but it will happen.

Don't worry about Microsoft being a convicted monopolist. They are currently so powerful, that they are above the laws. But the elephant will have to fend off the ants, and the ants are getting more and more numerous.

Yeah, we've never heard this before

[0x0d0a]

Yeah, this hasn't ever happened before:

Microsoft: "Hi there! I'm Microsoft, and I just want to play friendly and build up value for my own products. I have no interest in your markets. You don't have to worry about us!"

The number of companies that have been subsequently crushed or eaten goes on and on and on...

Choice quote..

[gillbates]

Microsoft knows how to do technology and software. They don't know how to tell a story.

I fear that this is actually false; they know more about telling stories than technology:

• They tell stories about "Enterprise Class" operating systems that must be patched on a monthly basis to remain "secure". Of course, the absence of auto-update on mainframes means that they must be inherently insecure; after all, nobody could code a secure OS from the start, right?
• They tell stories about managing your business with their software, yet disclaim any responsibility whatsoever for customer data after the install. Which is exactly what I want - right? I mean, if I lose a "mission critical" business system to a Blaster-type worm, the last thing I want, or expect, is for the vendor to take responsibility for their shoddy design practices.
• They tell stories about "low total cost of ownership", yet their analyses conveniently forget to include virus cleanup, constant patching, and damage due to loss of proprietary information through security breaches.

And no, a company which is not content with 95% of the desktop share wouldn't possibly try to buy Hollywood, now would they? I mean, that would be so out of character for them - those felonies, drumming competition out of business, etc... - those were just a few minor slips, right? I mean, gosh, deep down inside, Microsoft is really just a misunderstood giant...

Not that I'd cry for Hollywood, though. But it does seem a little insincere on Microsoft's part.

Re:Choice quote..

[Explorer.exe]

I'm not sure if that was a shot at MS, but it is an example of one thing I talk about alot. I hate people that talk shit about MS just because it's MS. Here are three good reasons to hate MS. If some one can tell me why they hate MS, then I wont say a word about them. I just want more than, "Bill Gates is a big poopoo head". All that is just childish poser bull shit. Also just saying that MS puts spy ware in their software dosen't help either. I meen I can say that slashdot has spyware installed on your computer when you go to their site. That dosen't make it any truer or even help anybod any. Thats just my two cents on that.

Obligatory Futurama Reference

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you mean the lost city of... Atlanta!

Just watch out for cigars burning your house down...

"That just raises further questions!

Possible solution ?

[polyp2000]

Well , there is of course one obvioius solution to that isn't there? Its so blindingly obvious that Open Source is one solution to Microsoft extortion.

Nick ...

Good. Kill them All,

[gelfling]

I sincerely hope that MS charges Hollywood a billion dollars a picture to use MS products. I hope the people who brought you the commercial in your theater with the fat bald stuntman have to eat their own children.

Gee.....

[TheOv3rminD]

I wonder what kind of agenda this articles author has...heh

For true geeks, there's only one.

[red floyd]

Godzilla.

Macintosh and the movies

[Dan East]

I've noticed something over the course of watching hundreds of movies over the years. Invariably when a movie shows a PC or a notebook it is 9 times out of 10 a Macintosh. I've found this to be rather odd, considering how disproportionate this ratio is compared to the real world. It would be interesting if someone compiled a database of movies and the computing hardware used for props.

I've often wondered what underlying politics within the movie industry drives this trend, as it certainly is no coincidence.

Dan East

Re:Macintosh and the movies

[burns210]

Apple for many years has actively sought for movies to feature macs in them. Besides, macs generally are more appealing visually.

Not held hostage to any one company

[DickBreath]

...studios say they need to encourage competition so they won't be held hostage by one company.

With the MPAA we aren't held hostage by any one movie studio.

With the RIAA we aren't held hostage by any single record company.

Microsoft needs to learn to innovate like the MPAA and RIAA.

Re:The BBC isn't afraid... Hollywood could help th

[KontinMonet]

The Beeb is not paid for by the taxpayer, its paid for by anybody who watches BBC TV. If you can prove you can only get Sky TV, for example, you do not need to pay the license fee.

And I would happily pay a lot more myself for the sheer privilege of not having to watch unimaginative and asinine adverts for shampoo, cruddy cars, junk food and stain removers repeated every half hour, every night/day, every week, every month, every year, every decade... (no, I don't watch a lot of TV, but I recognise products that were being advertised the same way 20 years ago).

Re:The BBC isn't afraid... Hollywood could help th

[sql*kitten]

The Beeb is not paid for by the taxpayer, its paid for by anybody who watches BBC TV. If you can prove you can only get Sky TV, for example, you do not need to pay the license fee.

You are mistaken. The tax is paid for *ownership* of a TV.

super secret encryption..

[Hooya]

Hollywood wants super secret encryption

after having invented "double secret probation", i'm sure they can muster up "double secret encryption". but i don't know if they can go as far as "super" secret encryption.

Talk about two-faced..

[Drathos]

Here Hollywood is claiming to be afraid of MS, but on the other hand, the HD-DVD camp (Warner Bros. et al) is using a MS CODEC for one of the (three, IIRC) supported CODECs. One more reason I'm on the Blu-ray (a/k/a Sony, et al) side of this particular format war..

Unfortunately, it sounds like Warner Bros. is the front runner (ahead of Sony) in the bidding war for MGM. Whichever side gets MGM's massive collection of titles will probably win the format war..

Re:Talk about two-faced..

[FrankHaynes]

Stay on Sony's side.

I mean, after the stellar job they did with promoting the BetaMax format a while back they will undoubtedly succeed here, right?

Easy solution:

[Reteo Varala]

Stop watching movies.

Hell, I have not seen one in a few years; not since LotR: TT in the theater a couple years ago. I don't watch TV. With my computer, I have no reason for passive entertainment when there's a more active form of entertainment in which I can not only watch, but actually get involved.

Of course, I do have some enjoyment of passive entertainment... they consist of words printed on pieces of paper, and I get them for free at the local library. They have much better plots, and far richer effects than just about all movies. And you can enjoy them even in the middle of nowhere.

Which begs the question: What exactly do TVs and Movies offer?

The Honorable Computing Initiative

[DJ_Perl]

Read Cory Doctorow's excellent sci-fi short story "0wnz0red". ( Salon ad-clickthrough required ).

Microsoft in a nutshell

[Fentisen]

"saying that it's only interested in selling more copies of Windows and applications for its platform, and providing movie content would promote the platform." I thought this is what Microsoft is all about, well at least capitalism.

Open standards

[danila]

If movie companies are scared of MS, they should go with open standards. Write some good DRM standards, make them free (don't try to charge anyone for using) agree on them with digital equipment manufacturers, TV networks and record labels. Support implementation of DRM in Linux, MacOS, etc. Then they would be able to use their collective muscle to force MS to support it in Longhorn. The Windows Media Player will be irrelevant, since in this situation any standard-compliant player will work.

Of course, the great thing is that nobody will do that and we can hope that DRM will mostly fail. :)

Re:The BBC isn't afraid... Hollywood could help th

[Anonymous Coward]

The tax is for receiving television programs. Even TV tuner cards for your computer need to be licensed. However, if you own a TV but only use it for your PS2, you don't have to pay the license fee. So no, it's not a fee for TV ownership.

hooray for microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

I will gladly applaud the day that microsoft owns the movie industry. The war for ownership would doubtlessly follow the browser wars.

Microsoft would give movies away freely just for the limitless potential of suppling value added services.

Bottom line. We win. Hollywood can go to hell.

Re:The BBC isn't afraid... Hollywood could help th

[Anonymous Coward]

I dunno about BBC intentions... they're fine with mp3 and Real.

Re:Macintosh and the movies (art directors)

[tekrat]

That's because the art directors of these movies are invariably mac-heads (aka creative types). Just as the graphic designers, video editors, music editors, and even the writers tend to use Macs... It's only OUTSIDE of the film industry that people use PC's... So the film industry, cloaked in their ivory towers, don't realise the rest of the world uses PCs.

I worked in TV for a few years... Everyone had a Mac where I was...

This is amazing, actually

[tjlsmith]

The tapeworms who run Hollywood are some of the most stone-hearted criminals anywhere. To think they're afraid of MS's business practices is like the Hells Angel's rejecting a recuit because he's too tough.

Re:The BBC isn't afraid... Hollywood could help th

[MysteriousPreacher]

The tax is paid based on ownership device that is able to receive or record tv signals. If you have any one of the following, you're liable for the tax.

Televisions
VCRs
TV Tuner cards

If you argue that you can only get Sky, this doesn't exclude you from paying the licence.

I'd happily pay a bit more if I it meant I didn't see anymore adverts for loan consolidation for the ugly and annoying mobile phone ring-tones.