DVD / Hard Drive Recorder With 28-Day Capacity

fenimor writes "Panasonic today unveiled new DVD-recoders with astonishing 709 hours video recording capacity. The top model has onboard components of a good PC: 400GB hard drive, Ethernet port, broadband receiver, SD Memory Card slot, and a PCMCIA card. The DVD recorder is the fastest in the industry as it can record a one-hour program onto DVD-R disc in just 56 seconds. Internet access allows users to program recording through cell phones or PCs while away from home."

Comments

burnin'

[dirvish]

Oooh, that will go nicely with my Netflix account. ;)

Re:burnin'

[Nos.]

Exactly... I think we're going to see some decrease in sales of DVD's as products like this start becoming popular (and cheaper). How long before the MPAA attacks these sort of devices (again) especially ones like this that will allow trading of content very easily.

Re:burnin'

[stratjakt]

Does this decode CSS for you?

If not, the MPAA doesn't care.

Re:burnin'

[Anonymous Coward]

Haven't read the article yet, but if it is like most of the other dvd recorders I have seen it will only record from a TV source and can't copy dvds to the internal hard drive.

Re:burnin'

[Zocalo]

It'll go even more nicely with the shouts of "Code Blue" and crash teams rushing to the offices of various MPAA and Hollywood execs. I predict this thing is going to have enough red tape thrown at it to reach to the moon and back in an attempt to prevent it getting to as many markets as possible.

Meanwhile, the article a little light on the two details that matter most; "how much?" and "where from?". Anyone?

Re:burnin'

[Anonymous Coward]

Such copying of DVDs is against both the spirit and practice of law. If you do indeed copy DVDs as such, your actions will both in aggregate increase the price of goods for others and decrease general welfare by causing increased restrictions, both legal and technological, to be imposed on future products.

Re:burnin'

[CrazyJim1]

"Meanwhile, the article a little light on the two details that matter most; "how much?" and "where from?". Anyone?" Thanks. I was wondering those facts because the the article is slashdoted. Now I know I'm not missing anything. www.geocities.com/James_Sager_PA

Re:burnin'

[Anonymous Coward]

Surf at "0" and search for a followup to a post by "mr_zorg" - I posted the article text as an AC a few minutes ago.

Re:burnin'

[dirvish]

The DMR-E500H high-end model in the DIGA DVD recorder range, features a built-in 400GB hard disk drive with a recording capacity of 709 hours of video in EP mode. It offers high-speed dubbing from hard disk drive onto DVD-RAM at speeds of 40x and onto DVD-R disc up to 64x in EP mode. This makes the DMR-500H the fastest DVD recorder in the industry as it can record a one-hour program onto DVD-R disc in just 56 seconds.

With its Ethernet port and a broadband receiver, the DMR-E500H offers convenience for home and mobile networking. With Ethernet connection, MPEG4 video and JPEG photos can be viewed by a PC*1 in another room. Using two DMR-E500Hs, MPEG2 video on one can be accessed by the other on the LAN. Broadband Internet access allows users to program recording through such mobile devices as cell phones*2 and PCs while away from home. Users can transfer pictures between the DVD recorder and their mobile device.

The DMR-E500H has an SD Memory Card slot and a PCMCIA card slot to transfer MPEG data at high speeds for storage or use in other devices. Using an SD Memory Card, it's easy to transfer video and still photos recorded by other digital AV products, such as digital still cameras, to the DMR-E500H for editing or storage on the hard disk or DVD discs. It can record MPEG4 image data simultaneously while recording MPEG2 data onto the hard disk. The MPEG4 data can be transferred to an SD Memory Card and played back on a Panasonic D-Snap SD video camera.

Other models in the new DIGA line-up include the DMR-E330H with 250GB hard disk drive, the DMR-E220H with 160GB hard disk drive, the DMR-E250V, a 3-in-1 DVD recorder with VHS recorder and 160GB hard disk drive, and the DMR-E87H with 160GB hard disk drive.

Equipped with two TV tuners, the DMR-E330H and DMR-E220H can record alternate television programs simultaneously onto the hard disk drive. The DMR-E500H, DMR-E330H, DMR-E220H and DMR-E87H, all offer high-speed recording from the hard disk drive to DVD-RAM at speeds of 40x and onto DVD-R disk up to 64x (both in EP mode).

The five new models take Panasonic's DIGA family to nine members, including the DMR-E700BD, BD (Blu-ray)/DVD recorder released on July 31, 2004. Panasonic continues to respond to the diverse needs of consumers and leads the way in the DVD recorder market.

Re:burnin'

[Anonymous Coward]

Score: -1, Marketese

Re:burnin'

[matt65114]

Yea, but It'll be fun!

Re:burnin'

[jhylkema]

Does this decode CSS for you?

If not, the MPAA doesn't care.

Wrong, buzzard breath. The MPAA cares a devil of a lot about any technology that enables people to view content other than through their "licensed" means. (Granted, we techies know that this is pie-in-the-sky: CSS was broken by a 15-year-old, Macrovision has been hacked already AFAIK.) Keep in mind that the movie industry fought VCRs all the way to the US Supreme Court. The case was Sony Corp. v. Universal City Studios, Inc. . The case headnote:

Petitioner Sony Corp. manufactures home video tape recorders (VTR's), and markets them through retail establishments, some of which are also petitioners. Respondents own the copyrights on some of the television programs that are broadcast on the public airwaves. Respondents brought an action against petitioners in Federal District Court, alleging that VTR consumers had been recording some of respondents' copy-righted works that had been exhibited on commercially sponsored television and thereby infringed respondents' copyrights, and further that petitioners were liable for such copyright infringement because of their marketing of the VTR's. Respondents sought money damages, an equitable accounting of profits, and an injunction against the manufacture and marketing of the VTR's. The District Court denied respondents all relief, holding that noncommercial home use recording of material broadcast over the public airwaves was a fair use of copyrighted works and did not constitute copyright infringement, and that petitioners could not be held liable as contributory infringers even if the home use of a VTR was considered an infringing use. The Court of Appeals reversed, holding petitioners liable for contributory infringement and ordering the District Court to fashion appropriate relief. [Emphasis added].

Held:

The sale of the VTR's to the general public does not constitute contributory infringement of respondents' copyrights. [In other words, told Universal to go stuff themselves.]

Hollyweird has yet to learn from this stinging defeat and the aftermath. Turns out that, far from decimating the industry as Jack Valenti predicted, Hollywood now makes more off of videotapes than screenings. Hollywood makes more movies than before, not fewer.

In business, you must either adapt or die. At least for now, Hollywood has chosen not to adapt.

Re:burnin'

[Anonymous Coward]

Surf at "0" and search for a followup to a post by "mr_zorg"

Jeez Buddy, if you're going to go to all the trouble of explaining it that way, why not just do this instead?

Re:burnin'

[Catbeller]

"your actions will both in aggregate increase the price of goods for others"

No. No evidence exists that VHS copying, for instance, reduced profits for TV or the movie studios. Actually, the commercial sales of such recordings make more money for the studios than public screenings. They are rolling in dough. Additionally, anyone with a bit of knowledge can copy a DVD today. DVD sales are rising exponentially. There are only assertions from the studios that they are losing cash. Reality, not words, show the opposite.

"decrease general welfare by causing increased restrictions, both legal and technological, to be imposed on future products."

You assume that the lack of a recorder would negate the studios' efforts to build a copyright police state; there is no evidence that they would stop on any account. So, new recorder or no new recorder? You might as well buy one, for it would neither increase nor decrease the new draconian laws which will be purchased by the studios anyway.

Re:burnin'

[Anonymous Coward]

Macrovision has been hacked already AFAIK.

Macrovision can be bypassed with a couple of very thin wires inline with the video output (one on core, one on shield). A friend of mine showed this to me. Pretty neat.

Recoder?

[Anonymous Coward]

RECORDER

Screenshots?

[jared_hanson]

Does anyone know of anyplace that shows screenshots of the DIGA DVR interface. Plenty of places show the TiVo interface, but I find it quite hard to do an accurate comparison between TiVo and anything else, simply because I've never seen the interface available. Anytime I walk into a Best Buy, none of these units are hooked up to a TV, so that is no help either.

Re:Screenshots?

[russint]

Isn't Best Buy filled with worthless "can i help you"-bots? Just ask one of them to hook it up.

Re:Screenshots?

[Mateito]

Yep... but the corperate environment discourages employees from actually learning about stuff, as its valuable time that could be spent stuffing extended warranties down people's throats:

See here

Re:Screenshots?

[Baricom]

The manuals have a fair approximation (see here, for example). However, if the new models are anything like the E-85H, the UI is dreadful - absolutely dreadful. It took me a good 3 days to learn it, and I'm generally very comfortable with this sort of thing.

Besides the poor layout of the menus, the recorder takes about half a second to respond to button presses. That may not sound bad, but trust me, it's noticable, and it gets more and more aggravating as time goes on.

Re:Screenshots?

[G-funk]

Best. Sig. Evar.

plenty

[el_salvador]

of space for the sex lifes of all slashdot readers i guess

Re:plenty

[Oxy the moron]

Though I was thinking that the majority of /. sex lives could be contained on the now dead floppy disk. =]

Re:plenty

[Malc]

I've got an 8" floppy disk that would still be too much...

too long

[Anonymous Coward]

56 seconds? But I want it now!

Re:too long

[Anonymous Coward]

yip - instant gratification just takes too long...

A 'good' PC?

[93,000]

". . . onboard components of a good PC: 400GB hard drive . . ."

Um, I thought my 120 gig was pretty swell. If 'good' is 400GB, I wonder what constitutes 'great?'

Re:A 'good' PC?

[sl4shd0rk]

>If 'good' is 400GB, I wonder what constitutes 'great?'

A 400 GB model that comes pre-loaded with porn.

Re:A 'good' PC?

[niteice]

Better idea: one that can hold all the legal pr0n on the net.

Re:A 'good' PC?

[erotic_pie]

2TB partion in SCSI RAID 0 (filled with pr0n of course)

Re:A 'good' PC?

[timts]

well, why pay something that does only one thing? like DVR?

building a raid for 1T is pretty easy, you just need to stack up 4 250G drives with a raid card, it's actually not expensive.

One hour in 56 seconds

[jrumney]

The DVD recorder is the fastest in the industry as it can record a one-hour program onto DVD-R disc in just 56 seconds.

Easy! All it needs to do is detect and remove the ad breaks.

Re:One hour in 56 seconds

[Wilk4]

yeah, removing the ads from typical TV shows leaves you with just 56 seconds of video... easy to record in 56 seconds. ;-)

seriously, doesn't 56 seconds seem like a typo? I can't copy that much video from one spot to another on my hard drive in that time... how is a DVD recorder that fast? yeah, yeah, I'll go read the article now - except that it's slashdotted ... sigh...

Re:One hour in 56 seconds

[jrumney]

seriously, doesn't 56 seconds seem like a typo?

Not really. It does seem like the marketing version of the story though, as they are certainly talking about raw write time, not including compression time etc. My guess is the steps go like this:

1. Capture one hour of TV.
2. Possibly cheat by removing ad breaks, leaving around 40 minutes.
3. Compress to MPEG4. Think VHS quality, not near-DVD.
4. Defrag hard drive
5. Start timer
6. Write to DVD
7. Stop timer: 56 seconds.

Re:One hour in 56 seconds

[Zocalo]

doesn't 56 seconds seem like a typo?

Not at all. Since it doesn't say what level of compression was used on the one hour of video, I think it's reasonable to assume it's the one with the most. If so, and the thing can store 709 hours of video in 400GB, then that's just over half a GB of data, or about 10MB/s.

Re:One hour in 56 seconds

[jrumney]

If so, and the thing can store 709 hours of video in 400GB, then that's just over half a GB of data, or about 10MB/s.

Which if you do your sums, works out at a 16x writing speed. Fairly standard these days.

Re:One hour in 56 seconds

[JeffWhitledge]

Hey, it can copy all three Lord of the Rings extended editions in just under an hour!

Re:One hour in 56 seconds

[kryptkpr]

8x DVD-R/+R is ~10.5mb/sec.. I've seen 16x drives, but not 16x media.

Re:One hour in 56 seconds

[DotDotSlasher]

If it's coming out this month, they must be using a 12x DVD burner. A DVD stream is about 1MB/sec, so 12x is 12MB/sec. 56sec at 12MB/sec is 672MB per hour of video. I'm sure they have MPEG-2 streams where an hour takes up 672MB.
But, since 400GB can store 709 hours, they must have a quality setting of about 400000MB/709hr=565MB/hr. Maybe they're allowing some overhead in their write-to-DVD time.
So they're not recording "normal" DVD video, a typical movie is about 1MB/sec. They're saving off MPEG streams to DVD-R which save video at about 160KB/sec. Much less than DVD-quality and doesn't play back in your DVD player -- but should play in their fancy player.

Re:One hour in 56 seconds

[superpulpsicle]

I don't know.... it's like someone marketing the water bottle being able to hold 12 gallons, when it's clearly a 1 gallon bottle.

Re:One hour in 56 seconds

[adolf]

Since your post contains nothing substantial but provable bullshit, and it got modded to +5 for some strange reason, here's your Basic Rebuttal :

1. Of course.

2. Of course not. Nobody will trust their machine to somehow automatically detect and skip commercials, particularly while in the process of burning to relatively expensive write-once media.

3. Maybe, but probably not. TFA does not mention what format the machine writes DVDs in. But it does say that the stuff on the hard drive is MPEG2, and we know the usual file size of that MPEG2 data[1] and how fast it'll burn.

4. If all you're storing is Big Files, and optimize sector allocation accordingly (not difficult - see TiVo's MFS, reading and writing 3 MPEG2 streams concurrently on a dog-slow Quantum LCT with an even slower Motorola 68k CPU and even less RAM), you'll not have much fragmentation. Ever.

5. Of course.

6. Duh.

7[1]. Easy. The box holds 709 hours in "EP" mode. It contains a a 400 gig drive. This gives us a filesize of about 560MB for one hour of EP video. If we're shooting EP video onto a garden-variety 8x DVD-R at just over 10 megabytes per second, 56 seconds is perfectly reasonable. My cheap-shit NEC 2510 will almost do this, using absolutely unoptimized burning software on a busy, garden-variety PC.

But, Panasonic has the unquestionably beneficial role of being in charge of producing the purpose-built hardware -and- the single-role software. Their product should be able to handle this task, in that time, without much difficulty at all.

And even if the marketing drivel -is- all lies, it's within a couple of seconds of the truth.

Re:One hour in 56 seconds

[YE]

Easy! All it needs to do is detect and remove the ad breaks.

OK, anyone up for a game of Bayesian filtering for video?

Actually, it doesn't have to be Bayesian. I don't mind watching each ad once - some of them are even clever or funny. But then, I would like to mark it as "remove this", and skip the other 999 viewings.

Re:One hour in 56 seconds

[jrumney]

I think my problem was assuming 4.7GB was 2 hours at normal speeds. 4.7 is one hour, so yeah, 8x is enough.

Re:One hour in 56 seconds

[MikeDX]

it's like someone marketing the water bottle being able to hold 12 gallons, when it's clearly a 1 gallon bottle.

How do you know it isn't dehydrated water? Just take the gallon of dehydrated water, add water, SHAZZAM!

Cost inefficient?

[scowling]

OK. I have a computer with video in, a DVD+-R drive and 300 GB of hard drive space. Just about anybody upgrade their system with the same for about $400. Right? A little more if you want digital video in.

And it's user-friendly. Got a remote control and everything.

So how much is Panasonic's system, and how would it be better for me than what I've already got.

Re:Cost inefficient?

[genericacct]

User-friendly to set up, silent, attractive. Price notwithstanding, this is an option to most consumers, most of whom have never even heard of Windows Media Center. For you, though, if your computer isn't deafening, keep what you've got.

Re:Cost inefficient?

[j-turkey]

So how much is Panasonic's system, and how would it be better for me than what I've already got.

I've set up a few PC-based PVR's and the TiVo and Panasonic ReplayTV's that I've used kick the crap out of them all (I haven't seen MythTV yet).

The interface is cleaner, it's easier to use, there is very little to set up, it doesn't require a clunky PC, and integrates nicely with whatever you've got in your home entertainment system (except for HDTV).

What can it offer you? I don't know. Maybe you're superman with your gear and can set up a seamless MythTV install in minutes. I'm not, although I have the know-how to do what I need -- and in my house, I don't even own a TV, so it's all via my personal computer. The prepackaged systems are pretty cool though -- it's a compelling package no matter who you are.

IMO, where your PC is really cool is for things like watching DivX and other downloaded videos...trying to integrate it into a system that you can use every day. I don't mind using my OS for that -- but again, the TiVo and Replay systems are pretty compelling like that. Cheaper to run, and they just work.

Re:Cost inefficient?

[skiflyer]

More and more people are going the laptop route... so it helps us I guess.

Also the programability via cell phone and whatnot... all hackable solutions for a geek, but a nice freebie to get in a box.

Now what'd make this something I might actually buy is if I can plug my laptop into it and use it as a regular DVD Burner as well. What'll make this something I'd never go near is if it records in some funky format that only it can read.

Re:Cost inefficient?

[Anonymous Coward]

Um, someone want to explain to me how the above post is a troll? I've asked a serious question. How would Panasonic's machine be better for me than the system I already have?

Re:Cost inefficient?

[scowling]

My PC is in a whole 'nuther room, so space and noise aren't an issue. I program when I want it to record, and it records. Then I can play it back via radio remote control while lying on my couch -- and I *also* get to do the same thing with all of those downloaded shows, which seems to me to be an added bonus.

I guess the downside is that I can't use my PC at the same time I'm watching TV...

I'm using ATI's card and software under WinXP, FWIW.

Re:Cost inefficient?

[scowling]

Jeez. So it's a troll to ask a question, and then flamebait to ask why that's a troll.

It's pretty clear that some asshole (probably the anonymous one from earlier today) is modbombing me. Ah, well, you'll get yours in meta.

Re:Cost inefficient?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, and I've got karma to spare, chuckles. Knock yourself out.

Re:Cost inefficient?

[swillden]

Maybe you're superman with your gear and can set up a seamless MythTV install in minutes.

apt-get install mythtv

Had to google for the Debian package repository first, and then add a line to my sources.list. After installing I had to run mythtv-setup, and then I had to find out how to get a DataDirect login to ZapIt. All told it didn't take more than about fifteen minutes. Don't have a tuner card in my laptop, or a TV signal to tune into, so I don't know if it works, but it sure looks like it should.

I would expect that other major distros are about the same.

Of course, your other points are valid.

Re:Cost inefficient?

[flink]

Everyone who complains about the noise from a PC in their living room must live in the middle of nowhere. I have a PC in my living room and there is no way I can hear it over the traffic, kids playing, sirens, ghetto blaster sound systems, dogs barking, parties next door, trains, and the occasional gunshot. Trust me, when I watch TV, the volume is up high enough that noise from the PC is not the problem!

Re:Cost inefficient?

[goneutt]

The top of the line w/400gb goes for $1499 http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servle t/ModelList?storeId=11251&catalogId=11005&langId=- 1&catGroupId=11058 See it here. I need to go dig out a /. usermanual.

They've invented the infinite hard drive. They're just waiting for it to finish the low level format

Re:Cost inefficient?

[Anonymous Coward]

Clunky PC? Hmm. Sounds a bit suspicious. You've haven't heard of MiniITX yet? A little cube like that doesn't seem too clunky. They've either got no fans at all or very minimal ones and with that situation, you can easily upgrade your DVD to a DL or a BluRay as these things develop as well as adding multiple hard drives to hit the best price points.
Whether it's for you as a geek who is doing your own upgrades, or for someone else who is going to pay a reasonable fee for your minimal services this seems like a better option by far. If you're worried about the OS being too complicated, well then I'm even more suspicious. You can't set up a totally stripped down system with a customized MythTV interface that boots up the system in read-only mode? Or is that "too hard." If you need it simpler, just don't give this end user the root password and set up the permissions properly.

Re:Cost inefficient?

[jokkebk]

apt-get install mythtv

It isn't always as easy as this. My installation looked a bit like this:

• emerge mythtv: 1hr (Gentoo jokes aside)
  
• re-compile kernel with video: 0.5hr
  
• try to get xawtv working to tune the channels - I live in Finland and need to tune mythtv frequencies manually: 2hrs of audio/video permission and other problems
  
• mythsetup: 0.1hr
  
• mythfilldatabase hangs after finding the first channel, no resolution available through google: 4hrs
  
• manually using xmltv to get the data: 2hrs
  
• trying to use xml file directly with mythfilldatabase - still hangs after reading into database: 1hr
  
• manually editing mysql database: 1hr
  
• starting up mythtv - permission problems: 2hrs
  
• figuring out correct alsa mixer settings from mediocre installation documents: 2hrs
  
• getting rid of blank screen and audio buffering errors: 3hrs
  
• now that everything works, trying to figure why in the hell I cannot change channels in mythtv
  

Total time: 18.6hrs

If everything goes OK, mythtv setup is a breeze - I've done it before. But when you have audio card that only records in 48kHz and start having prebuffering problems, or live outside US where you have to do little more than use ZapIt it CAN get ugly.

During my three workdays with MythTV most of the problems were mentioned in some web forums, but the answers proved to be few and far between. So far I've at least learned to hate the troubleshooting-section of MythTV documentation, which is about as much of use in shooting the trouble as a robot that eats flies.

Surely a super-expert in ALSA could've solved the haunting audio problems with a flick of his wrist, but sometimes it seems like a waste of good freetime to start learning devfs and the inner workings of .asoundrc just to be able to watch TV..

Re:Cost inefficient?

[ceeam]

Ever tried recording a program in background while playing some game? And me - I don't have my home PC on all the time.

Re:Cost inefficient?

[quakeroatz]

If you haven't used MythTV, you can't really have an opinion on PC-based PVR's.

It's like judging beef before trying steak; a wildly uniformed opinion.

Re:Cost inefficient?

[j-turkey]

If you haven't used MythTV, you can't really have an opinion on PC-based PVR's.

I've used enough of 'em to make a pretty accurate judgement, save the one I mentioned -- I made a pretty clear exception for that package (it wasn't a big secret or anything). Nice try kid.

Server had no chance..

[StormyWeather]

At one comment posted the server was already toast. If anyone has an alternative link it would be great if you would post it. I would like to know what this "28 day capacity" means. If they limit your ability to access data to 28 days then it's a joke no matter how much data you can store on it.

Re:Server had no chance..

[stratjakt]

It's a DVR with a built in DVD-burner. The DVR has a 400 gig hard drive, so they say it can hold 700 hours worth of TV.

Re:Server had no chance..

[BenFranske]

Engadget has a brief article. I'll keep looking for better information though.

Re:Server had no chance..

[BenFranske]

There's also a press release on JCNNetwork.

Re:Server had no chance..

[xNoLaNx]

http://www.japancorp.net/Article.Asp?Art_ID=8266 is pretty good. Really if you check http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&c2c off=1&tab=wn&ncl=http://www.japancorp.net/Article. Asp%3FArt_ID%3D8266 you can choose the one you like most.

Re:Server had no chance..

[Rightcoast]

You could always use... http://www.physorg.com/news1092.html.nyud.net:8090

Re:Server had no chance..

[InfiniteWisdom]

What part of 709 hour video recording capacity is so hard to understand?

Re:Server had no chance..

[dav1ross]

Try 24 hours times 28 days:
24*28=672

Sounds like 28 days to me.....

That's a lot of episodes of Good Eats

Re:Server had no chance..

[Anonymous Coward]

You got that right.

Best show on tv.

Re:Server had no chance..

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course, 28 days later the only people left on the recording will be zombies in England, and three or so regular people.

Heh

[shutdown -p now]

I wonder if you can plug a webcam into one of those things. 700 hours... yep, no need to change tape too often, and that DVD burning speed will also be handy for archiving. But now you will always be able to tell your girlgriend what exactly she did at 16:34, 15 days ago.

Re:Heh

[carpe_noctem]

Damn man, mind that restraining order!

Re:Heh

[6th time lucky]

Although (dis)proving what she claims to have said/told you to do, is going to take *a lot* of time reviewing the tape.

"Here honey, look, 3 weeks ago when you told me to go to the shops an get some milk, you said nothing about getting your super-low-carb-no-fat-no-flavour-shake etc. Would you like me to play that back again for you?"

Re:Heh

[Anonymous Coward]

And who she was doing it with!

Re:Heh

[Anonymous Coward]

>"Here honey, look, 3 weeks ago when you told me to go to the shops an get some milk, you said nothing about getting your super-low-carb-no-fat-no-flavour-shake etc. Would you like me to play that back again for you?"

*SLAP!!!*
*ouch!*

Not so fast

[Anonymous Coward]

Six days using this thing and then comes the compression depression. That is, how's the quality?

/.'d already?

[mr_zorg]

Man, not even any comments above my threshold and /.'d already... Anyone got a mirror?

Re:/.'d already?

[Anonymous Coward]

Just got it. Here's the text - there are pics, but they just look like a standard silver DVD player from the front.

Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd., best known for its Panasonic brand products, today unveiled five new models of DIGA DVD recorders. The recorders have 160 to 400 GB hard disk drives, providing massive recording and storage, high-speed dubbing, and superb home and mobile networking capabilities. The new products, DMR-E500H, DMR-E330H, DMR-E220H, DMR-250V and DMR-E87H will be introduced in the Japanese market from September 21.

The DMR-E500H high-end model in the DIGA DVD recorder range, features a built-in 400GB hard disk drive with a recording capacity of 709 hours of video in EP mode. It offers high-speed dubbing from hard disk drive onto DVD-RAM at speeds of 40x and onto DVD-R disc up to 64x in EP mode. This makes the DMR-500H the fastest DVD recorder in the industry as it can record a one-hour program onto DVD-R disc in just 56 seconds.

With its Ethernet port and a broadband receiver, the DMR-E500H offers convenience for home and mobile networking. With Ethernet connection, MPEG4 video and JPEG photos can be viewed by a PC*1 in another room. Using two DMR-E500Hs, MPEG2 video on one can be accessed by the other on the LAN. Broadband Internet access allows users to program recording through such mobile devices as cell phones*2 and PCs while away from home. Users can transfer pictures between the DVD recorder and their mobile device.

The DMR-E500H has an SD Memory Card slot and a PCMCIA card slot to transfer MPEG data at high speeds for storage or use in other devices. Using an SD Memory Card, it's easy to transfer video and still photos recorded by other digital AV products, such as digital still cameras, to the DMR-E500H for editing or storage on the hard disk or DVD discs. It can record MPEG4 image data simultaneously while recording MPEG2 data onto the hard disk. The MPEG4 data can be transferred to an SD Memory Card and played back on a Panasonic D-Snap SD video camera.

Other models in the new DIGA line-up include the DMR-E330H with 250GB hard disk drive, the DMR-E220H with 160GB hard disk drive, the DMR-E250V, a 3-in-1 DVD recorder with VHS recorder and 160GB hard disk drive, and the DMR-E87H with 160GB hard disk drive.

Equipped with two TV tuners, the DMR-E330H and DMR-E220H can record alternate television programs simultaneously onto the hard disk drive. The DMR-E500H, DMR-E330H, DMR-E220H and DMR-E87H, all offer high-speed recording from the hard disk drive to DVD-RAM at speeds of 40x and onto DVD-R disk up to 64x (both in EP mode).

The five new models take Panasonic's DIGA family to nine members, including the DMR-E700BD, BD (Blu-ray)/DVD recorder released on July 31, 2004. Panasonic continues to respond to the diverse needs of consumers and leads the way in the DVD recorder market.

Re:/.'d already?

[BenFranske]

Not a mirror but this is the Panasonic page. It was also covered by JCNNetwork and Engadget.

Re:/.'d already?

[Rightcoast]

Don't forget....Nyud.net:8090 http://www.physorg.com/news1092.html.nyud.net:8090

How soon till it becomes illegal?

[gambit3]

Surely, we can't let these BLATANTLY piracy-inducing machines to make criminals of all our poor innocent children!!

Quick, someone call Jack Valenti!

Re:How soon till it becomes illegal?

[APL bigot]

Surely, we can't let these BLATANTLY piracy-inducing machines to make criminals of all our poor innocent children!!

Quick, someone call Jack Valenti!

No need, Jack already has the site slashdotted!

Re:How soon till it becomes illegal?

[Anonymous Coward]

Quick, someone call Jack Valenti!

RETIRED! ... You Failed It!

How's that supposed to work?

[Anonymous Coward]

One hour (60 minutes) written to disk in less than a minute? Where did the 60x DVD writer come from? Or are they using some extraordinarily high and crappy looking compression ratio?

Re:How's that supposed to work?

[stratjakt]

It also only says it writes an hour of video in 56 seconds, but it doesn't say that it does it on DVD. How long does it take to write a CD at 48x+?

It's not a DVD-Video disc, obviously. It's just dumping a CD-sized MPEG-4 onto the disc, or hell even less. I could make an hour-long video clip that would fit on a couple floppies, but I cant imagine it being worth watching.

Re:How's that supposed to work?

[Anonymous Coward]

From the summary: "The DVD recorder is the fastest in the industry as it can record a one-hour program onto DVD-R disc in just 56 seconds"

Leaves very little room for interpretation.

Re:How's that supposed to work?

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's see.

400 GB/709 HR = 577 MB per minute.

1x DVD is about 4.8 GB/HR.
8X DVD is 8 times faster or 600 MB per minute.

Re:How's that supposed to work?

[Anonymous Coward]

That would be the crappy looking option then. Can you imagine anyone dropping that kind of money to compress video from an analog source at 150 kB/s? No codec I know of handles analog noise well enough to avoid wasting bandwidth encoding it (and consequently drowning the picture in compression artifacts) while at the same time leaving enough details intact.

Re:How's that supposed to work?

[Puff Daddy]

A one-hour program is a meaningless measurement. Is it DVD-quality or a grainy postage stamp? It makes a vast difference.

Re:How's that supposed to work?

[Anonymous Coward]

Or for people who didn't understand the above:

1 hour of recording for this device = 577 MB
8x writing = 10.57 MB/s

577 MB / 15.57 MB/s = 55 s

Typo: I think it's a DVR not DVD.

[glrotate]

The 400GB hard drive is the main clue.

Re:Typo: I think it's a DVR not DVD.

[skiflyer]

I think it's actually a DVR which can burn content to a DVD.

Re:Typo: I think it's a DVR not DVD.

[BenFranske]

No! RTFA, it's a combined unit (Panasonic has other ones already availible) think DVR with the capability to burn DVDs. The article headline is correct (well maybe not about the 28 day part unless you don't mind your video looking like crap)

Re:Typo: I think it's a DVR not DVD.

[Larthallor]

It's both - a DVR and DVD-writer. It looks like the content is "recorded" onto the hard drive a la Tivo and from there quickly burned to normal DVDs.

Oh. Duh

[boomgopher]

I first thought "28-Day Capacity" meant the contents disappear after 28 days, and that this was just another MPAA scheme. :)

28 Days

[Mateito]

DVD / Hard Drive Recorder With 28-Day Capacity

Obviously, to fill that capacity you'll need one of these.

Okay... so its a dumb joke. Give me a break. I've got a chronic ear-wax build up and its giving me a migraine.

Re:28 Days

[DrLZRDMN]

One of these might work too.

Re:28 Days

[Anonymous Coward]

Ya, and it's sequel

Re:28 Days

[Mateito]

Yeah, but you'd have to buy that one afterwards.

Re:28 Days

[kfg]

Obviously, to fill that capacity you'll need one of these.

Got one. Hey, it was only 5 bucks as a previously viewed VHS.

I like my women how I like my breakfast cereal:

Oddly enough given the joke, so do I. . .saturated in gin.

KFG

How can you WATCH that much TV?!?

[the_skywise]

I've got a Tivo with 120 hours on it. I can't KEEP UP with it. Half the stuff "spills off" for having too many copies (I stick with the default 5 episodes max for most things) or the suggestions just time out.

Granted, it's nice to be able to thumb through that much content when I don't feel like my normal stuff, but 700 hours worth!? (Yeah, there's always archival and keeping your DVD library on the hard drive is convenient but... c'mon... how hard is it to pull the DVD out of the case and put it into the drive?)

Re:How can you WATCH that much TV?!?

[Anonymous Coward]

What if you're crippled? Or worse, what if you are fat and have to masturbate to 13 hours of anime everyday?

Re:How can you WATCH that much TV?!?

[BenFranske]

You could record in higher quality which will eat the disk space faster. Or perhaps you're a packrat and want to save copies of shows without burning them to DVD.

Re:How can you WATCH that much TV?!?

[Not_Wiggins]

I completely agree.

One of the reasons I don't have a TiVo yet is that I'm trying to avoid the "pack rat trap."

Seriously, the only advantage I can see to having a TiVo with this much record time is to do "Video on Demand" if it isn't available in your area on the cheap.

If this is where TiVo is headed, then why not push for the pay-for-play schemes, let the cable companies manage content storage, and watch what you want when you want?

Re:How can you WATCH that much TV?!?

[bungeejumper]

I just got a 200 GB hard drive to throw into my ReplayTV, that'll give me 65 hours of high quality recording space. It's not that I watch a lot of TV, it's just that I like to watch TV programmes on my own time...if I record a little extra, it comes in handy whenever i get the couch potato TV-watching bug. And, do you know you can watch a 4 hour baseball game in under an hour !!! All that time they waste getting ready for a pitch ! i just hit the "skip 30 seconds button" and they still haven't thrown the pitch. Imagine a 3-2 walk...it takes like 5 minutes to get that torture over with ! Believe me, if you like sports, get a ReplayTV/Tivo...you'll know what i mean only once you've gotten it.

Re:How can you WATCH that much TV?!?

[timeOday]

I have a coaxial cable carrying over 100 channels into my home 24/7. How will I watch them all!? I won't.

And that's the point; you don't have to worry about running out of space all the time.

Re:How can you WATCH that much TV?!?

[multimed]

The wasted time during sports really puts regular programming to shame. A few weeks ago, a preseason NFL game was on at the same time as some olympic gymnastics that my wife wanted to see. I recoreded them both, and we didn't start watching until about 20 minutes in. Fast forwarding through the commercials, watching one channel while the other was on commercial and fast forwarding the time between plays and when they were standing around, we managed to watch both completely without missing anything exciting during the time we could have only watched on without a DVR. And I still had time for some channel surfing at the end when we caught up ang both were on commercial.

That was football where by rule there's actually a relatively short amount of time in between plays. I can imagine savings for baseball would be even more.

The weird thing is, since getting the DVR and really getting used to it, my wife and I are finding ourselves reaching for a button to rewind something we didn't quite hear on the radio or fastforwarding commercials. Kinda spoils you,

Re:How can you WATCH that much TV?!?

[mobby_6kl]

> but... c'mon... how hard is it to pull the DVD out of the case and put it into the drive?

Much harder than just sit back and wait for the next file to open after the current one finishes playing.

700 hours is probably at the lowest quality, change it to highest and you get only 400 hours (guess).

Re:How can you WATCH that much TV?!?

[kpost]

Just wait until you have young kids and need to keep the entire library of Sesame Street, Barney, et al. easily available....

Re:How can you WATCH that much TV?!?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well DUH that's why they invented G4TechTV.

Re:How can you WATCH that much TV?!?

[One_6453]

cant keep up with that much TV? BAH! Meet my girfriends mother.

Re:How can you WATCH that much TV?!?

[TheRaven64]

I think Douglas Adams said it best:

We have video recorders to watch the TV we don't have time to watch

(Or words to that effect. I'm too lazy to look up the exact quite)

Re:Obligatory...

[DrLZRDMN]

Or, more accuratly, a RAID.

What happens...

[Anonymous Coward]

28 days later?

Thanks. I'll be here all night.

709 hours into 400GB?

[Fweeky]

That's around 160kbps; barely enough for decent audio, never mind video.

Re:709 hours into 400GB?

[Eric Sharkey]

That's around 160 KB/s, not Kb/s. That works out to 1.2Mb/s, which is passable for basic quality video.

Re:709 hours into 400GB?

[Anonymous Coward]

Mod this up. This misinformation will not stand.

Re:709 hours into 400GB?

[stratjakt]

Dumbass. Read your result again. kBps. Notice the capital B. Bytes not bits

Think of an hours worth of MPEG4. Fits on a CD easily, doesn't it? 512megs per hour sounds reasonable. That's with 5.1 dolby and fancy shit.

I'm surprised they aren't claiming it holds 800+ hours of video, or even more. What if I just want to archive C-SPAN, and can live with a lower resolution, and 22khz mono audio?

Re:709 hours into 400GB?

[Anonymous Coward]

No it's not 164 kbps, it's 1314 kbps. Still, not enough, IMO, but all the DirecTV people out there seem to think it's enough.

Re:709 hours into 400GB?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it's 1.27Mbps (you're off by a factor of 8). That's almost uncompressed CD audio.

Re:709 hours into 400GB?

[pcosta]

It's actually 160kBps.

Re:709 hours into 400GB?

[mealtime_warrior]

Oops. You missed the fact that it is 160 kBps. You meant kbps, which is 160*8 = 1280 kbps.

Re:709 hours into 400GB?

[ashre]

It's perfectly possible to get (pretty low quality) broadcast video into 160kB/s (Bytes not bits).

Tivo varies from 192kB/s for its lowest quality (giving 12 and a half days on this machine) to 672kB/s for the highest (giving about 3 and a half days).

28 days will only allow VCD quality but people put up with VHS for 20 years, and that was worse than VCD.

Re:709 hours into 400GB?

[Anonymous Coward]

y'know, this could all be avoided if we stopped expressing data in bits...who uses bits anymore? use Kilobytes or even megs/sec and just be done with it.

700 hours of TV!

[Kotukunui]

Great. Now all we need is some decent programs to record. I don't think there has been 700 hours of quality television in the history of the medium. (called a medium because it is neither rare nor well done - ba-dum-chhh!)

Re:700 hours of TV!

[CdBee]

However, if it allowed you to copy your DVDs to the internal Hard Drive and access them from an on-screen menu, THEN we'd have a reason to buy it.

This is surely the next step in evolution, but unlike the iPod and iTunes combo, nobody's made a DVD/DVR-with-Hard-Drive that stores DVDs as far as I'm aware

Re:700 hours of TV!

[NotQuiteReal]

Oh come on now, I hope to live to see 100 year old I Love Lucy re-runs!

Hmmm. You are right even if you toss in the two good episodes of Monty Python and some Benny Hill episodes you still come up waaaay short of something worth spending money on to record TV shows.

Re:700 hours of TV!

[shfted!]

Yeah, there was only 500 good episodes or so of Star Trek every made: TOS, TNG, and DS9.

Duh...

[El]

709 hours / 24 hours per day = 29.5 days straight of recording time. Basically, you can take a month-long vacation, come back, and catch up on all your favorite programs. If course, what it doesn't say is whether or not you can record two different channels simultaneously.

Re:Duh...

[Zocalo]

Actually, it does, but only on two of the models:

Equipped with two TV tuners, the DMR-E330H and DMR-E220H can record alternate television programs simultaneously onto the hard disk drive.

Re:Obligatory...

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't see why people don't karma bomb these idiots with their "obligatory" lame posts. These are far more obnoxious than the GNAA and the like, because being posted by subscribers, you often actually SEE them. God.

Lies. The bandwidth total for a 30 min of NTSC...

[Anonymous Coward]

Lies. The bandwidth total for a 30 min of NTSC is over 10 times the storage they claim is similar to a TV broadcast, expecially if the show was full of cut scenes special effects (music videos) and hi freq static.

Advertisers love to lie by factors of 10

Advertisers love to claim that standard VHS NTSC is three times crappier than it actually is.

Sony loves to do it this month with their non-mp3 mp3 players specs and storage and battery life.

Now the idiocy just keeps gettign out of hand.

Remember the year 1991 : Hard drives from many many suppliers claimed over 100,000 hours MTBF.

100,000 hours!!! some claimed 150,000!!! its all started with a lie that kept douobling every couple years.

Now we have 56 second total time to burn a genuine broadcast.

In three years they will claim 4 milliseconds.

goddamned liars

Finally a product that people want.

[Facekhan]

As to a commercial deletion feature. I will settle for a gain detector (in case you had not noticed commercials are significantly louder than the program itself) that creates a seperate chapter for commercial breaks that can be skipped easily if the viewer desires. That will satisfy the broadcasters that the commercials are being seen, while letting the users do what they have every right to do, skip the ads on recordings.

Picture quality for "28 days" level will suck hard

[Rude Turnip]

My 80Gb Tivo will record 80 hours (3 1/3 days) of video at "Basic Quality," which is equivalent to a low quality VHS recording (by VHS standards). Therefore, a 400Gb hard drive, using Tivo's standards anyway, will yield 16 2/3 days of video--yet they claim 28 days at that capacity. If that is the case, the picture will suck so much that you'll have to up the recording quality level and will get much less than 28 days worth of video.

This will be handy...

[penguinoid]

a very useful part for my electrical engineering project,
which I will be setting up in the girl's bathroom.

Re:This will be handy...

[Anonymous Coward]

Criminy - when you spell it "the girl's", it really sounds like you're talking about your daughter.

It's "the girls", because it accomodates many females and none of them, most likely, actually own the bathroom. Another example is "mens club", which is neither spelled "mens' club" nor "men's club".

Re:This will be handy...

[kalidasa]

No, it's men's club. Think about it: man's club, men's club. " Mens' " is not English. And thus it is girls' room, not girls room or girl's room.

Re:This will be handy...

[Anonymous Coward]

I bet Ebonics really gets your goat. Or is it goats. Maybe goats'...

Re:This will be handy...

[Vombatus]

I bet Ebonics really gets your goat. Or is it goats. Maybe goats'...

It is actually spelt goat.cx

28 days later

[kensai]

is when the zombies come.

Re:28 days later

[Anonymous Coward]

is when the zombies come.

Yeah, you'll have tons of zombies after everyone watches 28 straight days of crappy broadcast TV...

Bits != Bytes

[El]

Actually, that's less than 160 KBytes/second, which would be 1.28 Mbits/second... still, that seems pretty lossy for video.

Re:Bits != Bytes

[funaho]

Pretty lossy for MPEG-2 but not if they're making non-standard DVDs using MPEG-4. I just encoded my DVD of Kill Bill 2 to my media server at 1.2 Mb/sec using XviD and it's pretty much indistinguishable from the original DVD.

In this case however I'm betting they're doing absolutely minimal bitrate MPEG-2 encoding, because people will almost certainly complain if they can't play the DVDs they make on a regular player. So it probably looks like a VHS recording. But many people don't mind that; they're used to VHS tapes now and really just want DVD-R for the durability and smaller form factor.

Re:Bits != Bytes

[Fweeky]

Argh, damn case sensitive languages ;)

Still pretty low, yes; given a DVD video stream makes up about 30MBps, this is looking at a compression ratio of nearly 200:1. As a user who has most of his music in FLAC format, you can imagine my response to that ;)

Re:Bits != Bytes

[Anonymous Coward]

30MB/sec? Mega BYTES? Not even close. It's not even 30Mbps. While the MPEG2 video encoding is VBR, the average is around 9Mbps for the video stream.

Re:Bits != Bytes

[Anonymous Coward]

Argh, you did it again ;)

DVD maxes out at about 9 mbits/sec, a typical movie is about 3-4 mbits/sec. This would be 1.2 mbits/sec, or about a third. Of course realtime encoding is not as a efficient as the multipass encoding used to make DVDs, but still, it's in the ballpark.

Re:Bits != Bytes

[Fweeky]

Erm, no. By "DVD video stream" I should have been more specific; I meant *uncompressed*. That ~30MBps raw stream compresses to a 3-4Mbps MPEG-2 stream; a ratio of about 70:1. At 1.2Mbps, it's approaching 200:1, and that's without a professional human tweaking the encoder for each scene.

Certainly passable for general use, but bah; give me a DVR which saves the raw MPEG-2 stream direct from my cable line ;)

Re:Bits != Bytes

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmmm, okay, I'll quibble. First, even professional uncompressed video is not 4:4:4, but 4:2:2 or even 4:1:1 or 4:2:0 (DVD) so your estimate should be about 15 or 20 MBytes/sec. Second, movies (and tv shows shot on film) are 24 fps, not 30, so that's four fifths reduction right there.

Additionally, I doubt you can tell the difference between the original and something that's MotionJpeg (intraframe) compressed 4:1.(Huffman (lossless) encoding itself accounts for about half of that!) So now we're down to 3 Mbytes/sec.

That's the number you should be comparing to.

Oh, DirectTV (and Dish?) already have DVRs that record the raw digital cable feed. If you really want to got crazy, for about $200 you can record the raw HDTV feed onto your computer (about 20 mbits/sec.)

Translation for my bro's

[Anonymous Coward]

Posted by timothy on Wednesday September 08, @05:29PM
from da that's-a-month-of-sundays dept, know what I'm sayin'?
fenimor writes "Panasonic today unveiled new Porno Disc-recoders wit astonishing 709 hours video recording capacity." The top model has onboard components of a gravy PC: 400GB hard drive, Ethernet port, broadband receiver, SD Memory Card slot, 'n a PCMCIA card, know what I'm sayin'? The Porno Disc recorder is da fastest in da industry as that shiznit can record a one-hour program onto Porno Disc-R disc in just 56 seconds n' shit. Internet access allows users program recording through cell phones or PCs while away from crib." "

Upper case B.

[3770]

Google says 160 kBps. Upper case B means Bytes. So that would be 1280 kbits/s.

BYTES,not bits...

[imsabbel]

And 160 KByte/s is almost DVD-quality with a good source and a good divx/mpeg4 encoder. Too bad that this thing will probably just use a cif-format and low bitrate mpeg2, thus looking like crap, but theoretically its possible.

Re:BYTES,not bits...

[yjchung]

I got the feeling, from the article, that that it will record in mpeg4 format to achieve 28 days on 400GB and convert to mpeg2 when burning to dvd.

Re:And it works as a web server, too!

[CrackHappy]

Beautiful - that sounds exactly like a Family Guy quote.

Obviously

[penguinoid]

they are running the webpage on a hard drive with linux and at internet connection

Re:Hmm...

[Anonymous Coward]

I think that's where they take the DVD and use DivX to make it fit on a CD. :o)

Obviously Still a Beta

[Nom du Keyboard]

unveiled new DVD-recoders

And they're going to keep re-coding the thing until they get it right!

Beta - no relationship to Betamax.

Re:Picture quality for "28 days" level will suck h

[stratjakt]

Perhaps they use a better codec than TiVo?

IIRC, TiVos are (were?) using MPEG-2. I've seen plenty of 2 hour DIVX's (MPEG-4) that fit onto a 700mb CD with excellent picture quality.

No need for CD-quality audio either, broadcast audio isn't quite CD-quality.

Re:Oh. Duh

[shutdown -p now]

Perhaps you're right. It also won't let you watch the recorded contents until the entire HDD is full.

Re:Oh. Duh

[ricotest]

*disc disintegrates in hands*

My entire pr0n collection.... NOOOO!!!

not really

[shutdown -p now]

Actually, I doubt you can fit the pr0n collection of a single slashdotter on that 400Gb drive.

Remote Programming(!)

[ackthpt]

Internet access allows users to program recording through cell phones or PCs while away from home."

This would be highly welcome as I'm often away from home and miss shows I might want to record, also could give peace of mind that it is programmed to record the show you really really really don't want to miss.

Of course, it being PC-like and on the internet, I wonder how secure it is. I'd hate to got on a trip in July, hoping this is recording stages of the Tour de France and coming home to a title "SUXX0RS11 UR 0WN3D1!" and a mess of Oprah shows.

the horror, the horror

Re:Picture quality for "28 days" level will suck h

[BenFranske]

"Excellent Picture Quality" is in the eye of the beholder. I still think that VHS looks better than SVCD OR those DIVX files you speak of. Besides, if they allow burning to DVD they are probably using MPEG2.

Re:One hour (of compressed video) in 56 seconds

[jfw25]

It's gotta be the compression they're using. After all, they can fit 709 hours onto a 400GB disk, so an hour of video takes up about half a gigabyte -- not 4.7GB. This is not going to be an hour of full-quality video.

I'm Holding Out.....

[davinciII]

For a unit with at least 37 truckloads of storage capacity.

Keep this news away from Jack ...

[Luscious868]

Keep this news away from Jack, cause when Valenti hears this shit he'll have a heart attack!

Re:Keep this news away from Jack ...

[GlassUser]

Keep this news away from Jack, cause when Valenti hears this shit he'll have a heart attack!


We can only hope.

The day the MPAA was afraid of has arrived...

[borgheron]

For years they've been dreading the spectre of easy conversion of DVDs to files on a computer. Now that it's *FAST* and easy they're going to be scared.

I would expect to see more attacks against computer makers and users by the MPAA on the order of what happened/is happening with the RIAA.

GJC

Re:The day the MPAA was afraid of has arrived...

[Wesley Felter]

For years they've been dreading the spectre of easy conversion of DVDs to files on a computer.

It's not clear that these Panasonic DVD burners are useful for ripping DVDs, and they are certainly more expensive than software-only DVD rippers.

Re:Damn. That's nice.

[Anonymous Coward]

If that's all we have to do for the ipod, why are you peddling it to us?

like AOL's 1049 free hours in 45 days

[peter303]

Like someone can use the computer or watch TV 24/7.

28 Days Later..

[gphinch]

all your DVDs turn into zombies

Re:28 Days Later..

[TeknoHog]

all your DVDs are turn into zombies!

Re:Oh. Duh

[Johnso]

If that happened to me, I'd turn homicidal just like the zombies from 28 Days Later...

Please do us all a favor

[Anonymous Coward]

Please don't support a pyramid scam.

PCMCIA

[Sunkist]

Personally, I am in favor of devices that carry PCMCIA because I like saying that acronym.

Re:Oh. Duh

[djdavetrouble]

he sez
*disc disintegrates in hands*

My entire pr0n collection.... NOOOO!!!


I told you not to drop your inventory on the chaotic altar!!!!!!!

Just what...

[Anonymous Coward]

is a "broadband receiver?"

DVD / Hard Drive Recorder With 28-Day Capacity

[Anonymous Coward]

At first glance, I inferred from the title that the machine could (in some pathetic concession to the *AA's or new laws to come) only retain content for 28 days.

Think "security system"

[ElForesto]

That's the first thing I thought of. Using these things in large security systems to keep archives would seem to be the most likely application.

Re:Think "security system"

[Richard_at_work]

Already happens. Infact its a standard in modern CCTV systems of any size.

Channeling Homer Simpson...

[FreonTrip]

56 seconds? But I want it now!

Re:Oh. Duh

[LiquidHAL]

Oh, I thought it means that you can burn whatever DVD's you want, but 28 days later an evil army of MPAA zombies will come to get you.

Re:Damn. That's nice.

[Anonymous Coward]

From http://www.freeipods.com/Terms.aspx

V. REFFERALS

1. Referral Fraud

(a) Gratis Internet reserves the right to screen all referrals for signs of fraud. We reserve the right, in our sole discretion, to determine which referrals are fraudulent, and to not disclose the reasoning behind this decision.

(b) If suspicion of fraud is found, the user may have his or her account placed on "hold" and would be unable to use any of his or her credit towards any free product.

V. HOLD

1. Common Reasons for Being Placed on Hold

(a) Multiple accounts.

(b) Fraudulent referrals.

(c) Negative feedback from one of our affiliates or offers being completed and immediately canceled.

(d) More than one account at a user's shipping address.

(e) Any other reason or a combination of reasons at the sole discretion of Gratis Internet.

I have an older model

[SiliconEntity]

I have an older model Panasonic DVD recorder with hard drive, the DMR-E100H. It's got a 120 GB disk which they describe as holding 160 hours. I usually record in higher quality so it holds half that or less.

It does have a high-speed record feature and can record an hour DVD in a couple of minutes. I'm not sure how it works. Sometimes it seems like the quality is not as high when I do it like this, but maybe that's my imagination.

I also have a TiVo and what I miss most on the Panasonic is the lack of a program guide. The best you can do is use the VCR Plus codes from TV Guide but otherwise you have to manually enter the time and channel. And the worst is, you have to manually enter the program name! Using a letter grid that you move a cursor around with the remote control! It's awful. I hate it when I record a movie with a long title, but I'm too compulsive to allow myself to abbreviate it.

The remaining major problem is that you can't copy from a DVD to the HD, you can only go in the other direction. I'd think this was a copy protection thing, but you actually can do it if you use a DVD-RAM format disk, just not a DVD-video. So once you back up something from the HD to a DVD, you can't copy it back to re-edit it or burn to a new DVD. I don't know whether the new box will fix this.

Re:I have an older model

[swb]

Why not just dub from Tivo to the Panny via SVHS cables? At the top two Tivo quality settings and the Panny set to SP, the qulity vs. the built-in tuner is negligable. It's a nuisance, admittedly, and not an optimal solution, but it does work really well and eliminates any gripes about the Panny's scheduling, which is no better or no worse than the VCR.

They could fix the letter-entry method, although I've kind of gotten over it (I gave up the compulsion of labeling both a recorded program AND titling the disc) and don't care anymore. An IR keyboard would be trivial and very effective, but then again, it's like 30 chracters, not "War and Peace."

The disc copy issue is eternally stupid, though. EVEN IF they wanted to make it a copyright tool, at least only allow ripping of Panny-made discs or all non-copyrighted discs. The E85 can, apparently, but its crippled by beaing real-time (unlike -RAM copies) and requiring an MPEG2 transcode as well.

Re:Damn. That's nice.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, I've got 3 already, people are just giving them away all over slashdot. But by now, anyone who wants one has got it... too late for the suckers at the bottom of the pyramid :)

Panasonic Catalog Link

[Anonymous Coward]

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/se rvlet/ModelList?storeId=11251&catalogId=11005&catG roupId=11058

Pioneer already did this and has TiVo to boot

[Whatchamacallit]

Pioneer already did this and has TiVo to boot. DVR-57H DVD Recorder Player with Hard Disc Record and TiVo.

Sure it's only 120 Hours but who really cares? I get 9 hours with a Series 1 TiVo right now and it's fine. I could upgrade it to 130 by replacing the one drive with two big one's but seriously, 9 hours is enough for me.

I don't record movies most of the time. It's just shows that I watch and most of them are an hour.

Frankly just waiting for both the Pioneer and Panasonic devices to drop in cost and I will buy them. But the Pioneer is $1,800.00 for 120 Hours plus you still need to subscribe to TiVo or buy a lifetime connection. I would rather buy a new PowerBook then spend the money on a new TiVo when I am still not exceeding the capacity of the series 1 unit I have now.

Seriously, how many would really record a lot onto DVD just to avoid buying a series on DVD when it's released at the end of a season?

Why rip movies from HBO, etc. to DVD when you could just stream it from Comcast or rent it?

I have friends who rent and rip DVD's using 321 Studio's software. But I tell ya, it's easier for me to rent the iffy movies and buy the ones I care about. I just don't have the time to rip to DVD.

Re:Pioneer already did this and has TiVo to boot

[no soup for you]

I have friends who rent and rip DVD's using 321 Studio's software

and with that, Whatchamacallit (21721), has been logged for a future DMCA deposition.

Are you now, or have you ever been, friends or associates with anyone who has used 321 Studio Software for Copywrite Infringements?

Re:Pioneer already did this and has TiVo to boot

[Anonymous Coward]

You are right. I was getting all excited, but all I really want is to get a Tivo. I do buy the season DVD packages, eventually, and not buying this would allow me more $$$ to get the DVDs. Thanks for pointing this out.

Re:Pioneer already did this and has TiVo to boot

[SmittyTheBold]

You could upgrade that S1 TiVo to FAR more than 120 hours if you want the dual-drive route. My S2 has a single 120 GB hard drive in it (self-upgraded) and it reports "up to 146 hours" capacity. Perhaps you were talking about recording time in your preferred quality setting.

Alternate product info links (thanks Google News)

[MojoStan]

BTW, the model number of the top model is the DMR-E500H (can't find link on Panasonic's site yet). Here's two more links with product info, both based on the press release:

Panasonic Unveil New DVRs (includes photo)

Panasonic Unveils New DVRs

Important additional details I noticed:

• will be introduced in Japanese market Sept 21 (no info on non-Japanese markets in press release)
• recording capacity of 709 hours of video in EP mode (?)
• offers high-speed dubbing from hard disk drive onto DVD-RAM at speeds of 40x and onto DVD-R disc up to 64x in EP mode
• no pricing details in the press release

Actually...

[the_skywise]

My friends don't have cable, so I Tivo a run of stuff like Bear and the Big Blue house and dump it to tape for their 1 year old kid. One tape is good for about a month. That's about how long mommy and daddy can handle seeing the same episode about 50 times before they scream at me for new stuff. I think there's probably an underground market for it...
"Yo my man... I can score you some Bob the Builder! It's FRESH!"

Huh?

[Niet3sche]

The interface is cleaner, it's easier to use, there is very little to set up, it doesn't require a clunky PC, and integrates nicely with whatever you've got in your home entertainment system (except for HDTV).

Erm. Try MythTV. Really. As you can run MythTV as a client-server program, you can do all the "heavy lifting" back on the server in the basement. Or, better yet, throw a Hauppauge PVR-350 in there (about $180) and get hardware MPEG-2 encoding AND decoding. Or h/w MPEG-2 encoding alone (I think) with the PVR-250.

Re:Oh. Duh

[Anonymous Coward]

Porn does have an expiration date you know. Unless you're into the hairy muffs, mullets, and bad acting of yesteryear.

Obligatory linux question

[publicworker]

400GB hard drive, Ethernet port, broadband receiver, SD Memory Card slot, and a PCMCIA card

Yes, yes, but will it run linux?

Only one important question

[AxelBoldt]

Does it have a true ad-skip feature or just the 30 second skip button?

Uses for such a device other than recording TV

[rubberbando]

With its dual tuners, this would be a great addition to a video surveillance system...

...or a hidden camera operation. ;-)

does anybody else see vapor

[Revek]

I will belive it when i see it

Re:does anybody else see vapor

[microsnot]

They have been advertising the 400Gb DIGA for a couple of months now in Japan. Shops have been taking orders for them also... Would you like me to send you a picture of it, Mr skeptical?

Re:does anybody else see vapor

[Revek]

no i think you misunderstand i wanna see one not a picture but an actual unit and the main part i wanna see is The DVD recorder is the fastest in the industry as it can record a one-hour program onto DVD-R disc in just 56 seconds.

Panasonic

[payndz]

Panasonic's DVD recorders that I used in my (not long past) days as a tech reviewer, I rated pretty highly. Yes, they had their annoying quirks, but probably less than the equivalent Pioneer-clone units, and certainly a lot less than the Philips +RW machines. It comes down to format - Panasonic, IIRC, uses DVD-RAM, and as yet none of the three (three!) rival formats have yet established a convincing lead in the market.

The big question is, can they still be snapped up before Broadcast Flag compatibility becomes mandatory?

Re:Panasonic

[OYAHHH]

>Yes, they had their annoying quirks,

By annoying quirks do you mean the fact that they seem to corrupt about 1 in every six DVDs that are burned on them?

I guess it could just be my particular machine, but I'm pretty irritated at the poor quality my Panasonic DVD-Burner has exhibited to date.

I do have to caveat my experience above with the fact that I've been using blank memorex DVD-Rs.

I've recently, within the last four or five discs, opened up a pack of TDK DVD-Rs and I've yet to have a corruption issue. Until I get about 10 to 12 TDK discs under my belt though I'm blaming the corruptions on the Panasonic.

Assuming it is the Panasonic, I fear how badly the others in your post must perform.

Re:Panasonic

[BenFranske]

I have one of the older Panasonic DMR-E30s (no HDD) and it works pretty well the way I use it. There are some drawbacks but it does what I need it to and it was cheap long before any other standalone DVD recorders were. I use it mostly to capture TV and VHS tapes to MPEG2 on DVD-RAM discs (these are really great for this, much better than DVD+/-RW) which I put in my PC's DVD-RAM drive and offload the MPEG2, I then can do basic editing of the MPEG2 and burn it to a DVD-R with a nice clean menu.

An SD memory card slot! YAY!

[lord_nightrose]

SD Memory Card slot
Oh, thank God! Now I just need to dig up my 400GB SD card...

64x discs

[Anonymous Coward]

so... do they use normal dvd+/-r ...or some fancy $300/disc media???

What happens...

[don.g]

...when you run out of hard drive space, 28 days later?

Do the zombies come after you?

Re:Picture quality for "28 days" level will suck h

[Frogbert]

Which is exactly why longplay VCR's never caught on.

Do any of them have IEEE-1394?

[Milalwi]

I have been looking to get a DVD-recorder for my home theater system for quite awhile. I already have a Tivo, and I'd like to replace my VCRs with a DVD recorder. I partial to the Panasonic products, since they do DVD-RAM, which my Panasonic DVD player can read.

One of things I really want, however, is a Firewire interface on the unit so I can cleanly and easily dump my camcorder tapes to the recorder. This seems like such an obvious feature to me and yet very few units seem to support it. The older Panasonic DMR-E60 had a firewire interface but the DMR-E65 does not! I suppose I'll need to get the DMR-E95, which appears to be the cheapest Panasonic model with IEEE-1394 these days.

And when will they be available someplace other than Japan?

Milalwi

At long last

[rsilvergun]

I can put the entire extended version of Lord of the Rings on my PVR (almost).

Re:Picture quality for "28 days" level will suck h

[stratjakt]

You aren't burning an hours worth of MPEG2 onto a DVD in 56 seconds.

You're not crazy

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, I did think the exact same thing when I saw it. I was like "Oh great, what crazy scheme has the MPAA cracked up now???"

Oh well. Now I feel disappointed. I wanted to flame their new scheme :(

Shortlived

[rillopy]

28 days then they selfdestruct... very um... cool.

download the net

[Anonymous Coward]

cool, now i can download the whole internet onto this thing!!!

Re:Oh. Duh

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, come on. That's like the dumbest thing I've heard. 28 day's and it disappears? ok, I admit it. that's what I thought it meant too.

Now that MPEG4 is the new defacto standard...

[taxevader]

..could people please stop posting video files in the .ogm format? It reminds me a lot of .ogg. Maybe it is superior in some way, but you need a faster processor to run the files and you cant play it on a lot of 3rd party (ie non-pc) devices. Stick with divx or xvid encoded .avi files please.

I thought that WAS sports?

[NotQuiteReal]

If you don't want to watch the "boring" stuff, just look at the box scores the next day.

28 days? Nooooooo...

[Clark_Griswold]

I already have something that ruins my life every 28 days. Why rub salt in my wounds?

No, Honey, really, it was a joke! Sorry! Sorry! Glaahkkk! mmmffffpppt! AIEEEEEEEE>>>

Re:Oh. Duh

[schmoo.me]

thanks :D
you just saved me from writing a diatribe on hacking the 28-day timeout.... :D

Re:Picture quality for "28 days" level will suck h

[Echnin]

Well-encoded high-quality XviD or DivX files are much better than VHS. This is simply objective. A good place for broadcast resolution encodes is about 1.2 mbps, which comes out to about 10 MB per minute after adding an audio track. Of course, this won't fit a 2-hour movie on one CD as he speaks of; those encodes don't tend to look very good, though back in the day that DivX 3.11 release of the Matrix was pretty impressive. Both codecs and bandwiths have improved since then, however. As you mention, though, this DVR most certainly uses MPEG2, which does not look good at 1.2 mbps. DVDs are, IIRC, often encoded with 8 mbps, though this is flexible. Would have looked great with MPEG4, though.

Re:Picture quality for "28 days" level will suck h

[Prof.Phreak]

Consider this: 1.4gigs for 2 hour movie (suprnova). 12*1.4 for 24 hours worth of movies---that's 16.8gigs per day. With a 400Gig HD, you should be able to fit: 400/16.8 = 23.8 days worth of near-dvd quality video/sound. If you use 700MB per 2 hour-movie compression scheme (as many divx do), then you can get twice as much... ie: ~47 days worth of better than VHS (not quite dvd) quality video. ...assuming you can get some hardware to do the compression...

What about XMLTV support?

[rune-bare-rune]

I also have a TiVo and what I miss most on the Panasonic is the lack of a program guide. The best you can do is use the VCR Plus codes from TV Guide but otherwise you have to manually enter the time and channel. And the worst is, you have to manually enter the program name!

XMLTV support would be perfect for this type of recorders. It would be the feature that would get me to buy a standalone PVR.

No TiVo where I live (Norway), but I can get the local TV data with XMLTV. Using GB-PVR now, but would prefer a standalone unit.

The big problem here ...

[jandersen]

Doesn't it strike anybody as odd that we keep getting more and more sophisticated technology for gaming, recording TV, etc etc, but there's nothing to use it for. I mean, look at TV: How many GOOD films are there? I know there's a huge lot of so-so things, like The Matrix, but I honestly can't think of more than, say, about 20 hours of films that I would want to watch more than once, and a lot of it I wouldn't even spend that much time on. The same goes for programs about nature, science etc - it's all about repeated sequences, cool fade-ins and background sounds and what I think of as 'generalised wanking'.

The same goes for games: there's a lot of fabulous technology, but it's still the same old games as always. Why should I want to buy HW as powerful as a Cray or a mainframe used to be, just to get bored by a 'cooler' class of drivel?

No, what I want to see is REAL innovation - not just a polished copy of something already known.

Sounds nice

[da_fiend]

But I presume it's a single layer recorder. Think I'll wait for one that's not already obselete!

PCMCIA is not an acronym- Re:PCMCIA

[Anonymous Coward]

From the language department:

Personally, I am in favor of devices that carry PCMCIA because I like saying that acronym.

PCMCIA is not an acronym -
it's an initialism:

All these examples except the last should more properly be called initialisms, a sequence of the first letters of a series of words, each pronounced separately. Lexicographers make a careful distinction between these and the two other types of shortenings. An acronym is a word group created in a similar way to an initialism but which is pronounced as a word. So HIV is an initialism, but AIDS is an acronym. An abbreviation is any contraction of a word or phrase, but it's applied particularly to contractions such as eg (here I follow common British practice in leaving out the full stops and spaces; you may prefer e.g.). Signs for units of measurement, such as kg, are technically not abbreviations but symbols, though they commonly use alphabetic characters for ease of reproduction, and they never include stops. But some people just call them all abbreviations, though there's a tendency to use acronym instead, as being a more important-sounding word.

HH

Re:PCMCIA is not an acronym- Re:PCMCIA

[TeknoHog]

True. Some sources cite PCMCIA as meaning "people cannot manage computer industry acronyms", while in REALITY it means "People Cannot Manage Computer Industry Abbreviations".

Now, now...

[Kjella]

Actually, I doubt you can fit the pr0n collection of a single slashdotter on that 400Gb drive.

Now, now don't be mean with the slashdotters that are low on HDD space and have to rotate their collection on a regular basis...

Kjella

Re:Now, now...

[shutdown -p now]

Sorry, I didn't mean to be an insensitive clod. But that's what the DVD-R is for, isn't it?

Re:Oh. Duh

[inzide]

I first thought that this piece of hardware was only capable of playing 28 Days

Not just the eye of the beholder,

[gamma male]

But the device the eye is viewing it on. Good VHS tapes played on the TV do look better than bad divx encodings played on my monitor. However, when I'm instead playing via my tvout card, not only do my recently well tuned xvid tv recordings/dvd rips (which look much better than a VHS tape even on a monitor) look great, but even old opendivx/xvid4 recordings look better than most VHS recordings. Only the divx3 recordings look in any way comparable to VHS. While the divx3 is sharper in some areas you just don't have macro block artifacts in VHS which one does with divx3. However, I was using divx3 in what ... late 2000 ? Any thing ripped/recorded in the last year by someone remotely competent will look much better than VHS when also displayed on a tv.

Or another test, get a tv card, and hook up your VCR and watch the output. It looks a lot crappier than it does on a tv.

Ask an honest question,

[93,000]

--A 400 GB model that comes pre-loaded with porn.--

. . . and get an honest (and true) answer. That's what I love about /.

Re:Picture quality for "28 days" level will suck h

[baker_tony]

Yeah?! When was the last time you downloaded something off of suprnova.org? The 700MB movies off of that (DVD rips) look fantastic! A lot better than VHS in my opinion.

Perhaps you are thinking of divx files from a couple of years ago...?