Star Wars TV Show, And An Unmade Trilogy

Necromutant writes "Mark Hamill comments about Episodes 7, 8, and 9 really got everyone's attention. Mark told those in attendance what Lucas told him the third trilogy would be about. Also confirmed today officially, a Star Wars television show coming in the future. -- I don't know if I should be happy or scared..."

Comments

A big stick and a dead horse

[Izago909]

Lucas is going to milk this story for all it's worth. He won't be satisfied until Star Wars is the campiest sci-fi series ever put on film. If he would have stopped after the first 3 movies, he would have been remembered as one of the greatest sci-fi producers ever. After the first 2 new episodes came out, the franchise has started to become the ass end of sci-fi jokes. I don't see another 3 improving the image of the series.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[sqmagellan]

I can see another triology helping the Star Wars genre, but only if Lucas steps down as either Writer or Director. Sure, he can make some wonderful special effects, but he needs more creative imput if he plans his new saga touching more than just the most hardcore of fans.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Anonymous Coward]

He won't be satisfied until Star Wars is the campiest sci-fi series ever put on film.

Shit, I though he had that down when the Star Wars Holiday Special came out. At least Carrie Fischer is off drugs and that Golden Girl who sang is out of movie making.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[bravehamster]

Star Wars is NOT sci-fi!

It's fantasy.

That is all.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Anonymous Coward]

What is up with all you entitled geeks groaning and moaning about what George Lucas is doing to HIS OWN IP? If he wants to re-edit the DVDs so that Chewbacca is pink and 3 feet tall he can do that. Geez. Get it through your skulls already - all you did was watch a flipping movie.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Reality Master 101]

I posted this the last time this subject came up, but it's so funny that it deserves repeating. JK Rowling's hilarious offhand comment about George Lucas:

Q: Will there be a book about Harry's Mum and Dad, about how they became friends and how they died?

A: So it would be "Harry Potter: Episode One". [Laughter]. No, but a lot of people have asked that. It is all George Lucas's fault. You won't need a prequel; by the time I am finished, you will know enough. I think it would be shamelessly exploitative to do that. I am sure that Mr Lucas is doing it only for artistic reasons, but in my case I think that by the time you have had the seven books you will know everything you need to know for the story.

"Artist reasons" -- She is hilarious.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[dukerobillard]

He won't be satisfied until Star Wars is the campiest sci-fi series ever put on film.

Jeez, he should have been happy in 1978, then.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Flentil]

I think the problem with Star Wars today is more with the grown up 'lucas raped my childhood' ex-fans constantly bashing it. Once they die off Star Wars will retain it's place in history as one of the great classics of sci-fi fantasy films, prequals and (hopefully) sequals included. ...and no, I'm not trolling though I'm sure I'll be modded a troll for suggesting that the prequals might not be so bad.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Planesdragon]

Fantasy is a sub-genere of Sci-fi. It was a reinvention of the dead heroic myth genere in the late 19th century after science fiction writers like Jules Verne (!) proved that the novel-reading audience would read blatantly not-true stories.

Any definition you use for the difference between fantasy and sci-fi can be bent or broken by numerous excellent works, even though each subgenere is distinct into itself.

So, "Science Fiction" has three subgenres:

Fantasy, like LOTR or my own (unpublished) novel. Willing to change basic understandings of the universe and disregard Earth entirely.

Hard Sci Fi, like The Time Machine or Asimov's Robot series. Doesn't change any basic knowledge, but instead introduces a few "future developments" and explores their ramification here on Earth.

Soft Sci Fi, like 2001 or Asimov's foundation series, or Star Trek, which change something basic about reality.

Hmm... yeah, SW is fantasy. But it's still part of Sci-Fi.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[adolfojp]

Sadly, I've got no mod points, so I will post instead.

I agree 100%. Star wars is fantasy. The only diference between SW and Lord of The Rings type of movies is the background. One is technological and the other is not. Considering that this background is in another galaxy in another time frame it doesn't imply any future technology, but a mere definition of its alien background and status quo.

There is no science behind star wars light sabers, ships, force (except the midiclorian mistake) or anything else in the universe. It is the analogy to magic swords, horses, unicorns, olifants and whaterer mechanical doomsday devices you might want to add.

Just because it has blinking lights doesn't make it sci fi.

Cheers,

Adolfo

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[esukafurone]

Speak for yourself; I found the latest two very enjoyable to watch. It's probably geared towards a younger crowd... I never found the first 3 so special though they're decent compared to *most* old flicks...

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[ffejie]

I agree. If you hadn't seen the original, these minor edits would not even make you think twice. All the edits do is take advantage of some new technology, they don't change anything. That being said, the new Episodes are pretty bad. To be fair, they're on par with other crappy movies out today.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[shokk]

You must have missed that Return of the Jedi movie, then. At 13 years old, I could not believe what I was seeing on the screen. After Empire I expected magic out of that third movie. Biggest Letdown Ever.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Izago909]

It's very understandable that younger people are easily entertained. Just look at how much money can be made by cutting funding to screen writers and diverting the money to the CG department. I call it the "Shiney Nickel Effect". Special effects back when the first 3 were produced were not anything near what's available today. As a result, directors and producers had to rely more on practical action sequences, good dialogue, and a captivating story line. Modern film making techniques put CG special effects as a higher priority than the other 3 aspects. Personally, I'll take Blade Runner over any Sci-fi film made since then.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[soliptic]

+1 insightful, if I had any points. You may well (rightly) claim the first three were better than the new turd, but if anything, I'd say they were camper.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[JudgeFurious]

I can say only one thing about the viability of three more "sequels" following these "prequels" and that is they would have to be absolutely incredible films to even have a chance to pull the franchise up to even ground level.

If you look at them in their intended sequence then you've got (And I don't care how good he makes Ep3) a very childish and frankly not very good story starting with Ep1 progressing to what the majority of people consider to be "the good ones" in Eps 4, 5, and 6. Of course Jedi wasn't up to Empire and really that's where things started getting pretty silly with those furry little previews of the abortion to come but we mostly tend to just lump those three movies together and call them "good" while we look at the prequels and call them (rightfully so) "lousy".

So if there ever were to be a trilogy of sequels then they'd have to be far more adult targeted in nature to even have a chance and they'd have to be the coolest friggin Star Wars movies ever to clean the taste of "Phantom Menace" out of our mouths. They would need to grow up and be serious (probably overly serious) and in effect age with thier audience to make most Star Wars fans happy. Then when the whole nine were viewed in order the story would get better and more serious as it moved along.

I don't see Lucas being capable of doing it. No way can he miracle up the ability to churn out three great pictures now. He is what he is, just a guy who had one really great idea, an excellent techician of film, a great editor, and a crummy director who's managed to pull a few pictures off.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Squarepusher]

The thing that got me to really dig Star Wars anything, was the Cartoon Network series. Now that is what The Force is supposed to be like! It was exciting and new, and I'm (sadly) pretty damn sure that Episode 3, and any other SW movie that may be made later on will not hold a candle to what was unleashed by the animated series.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope, sorry. Anytime you come to the WRONG conclusion about something entirely unimportant, your argument has faltered.

Sci-Fi = Spaceships
Fantasy = psuedo-Middle Ages

All there is to it.

Now if you want to make the more subtle argument that Star Wars has fantasy elements, fine. But there is no "Fantasy" story where the hero and his robot shoots laserbeams into reactor vent and blows up the enemy space station.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[mattyrobinson69]

yep - all those fantasy horses in those western/sci-fi's were crazy. just crazy.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Gax]

Begun, the cash-in has.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[ultranova]

There is no science behind star wars light sabers, ships, force (except the midiclorian mistake) or anything else in the universe. It is the analogy to magic swords, horses, unicorns, olifants and whaterer mechanical doomsday devices you might want to add.

Just because it has blinking lights doesn't make it sci fi.

Actually, yes it does. Sci-fi, even "hard" sci-fi, introduces devices that cannot be manufactured at current technological level. Since these devices cannot be yet manufactured, their existence in future, as well as inner workings, are pure speculation.

Simply because some author is good at giving "science-like" explanations about how things work in his universe doesn't make those things any more scientifically sound than any other sci-fi props. Don't be fooled by technobabble :).

Think of it this way: There is some science behind magic swords - namely, the inclined plane (the cutting edge forms a wedge) and the fact that pressure increases as the surface decreases (which is why the blade cuts). There is also some unscientific things (the magical properties). There is a lot of science in several sci-fi spaceships (rocket engines, closed hull) and lots of unscientific things (faster-than-light drives in almost all of them, positronic robot brains - why would these be any different from normal electrons ?). It's just a matter of degree.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[LPetrazickis]

No, Fantasy and Science Fiction are both subgenres of Speculative Fiction (and so is Alternate History). For example, it is generally agreed that the sf in rec.arts.sf.written stands for Speculative Fiction.

Your idea doesn't really make sense. There's nothing scientific about fantasy. Doing the opposite and calling science fiction a subgenre of fantasy would also seriously piss off quite a few people.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Kirsha]

So LOTR is science fiction too? Right, because there is so much science there?

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, great, not that argument again. Talk about a big stick and a dead horse! If I go to Books-a-Million and look for Star Wars novelizations in the sci-fi section, I will find them. If I go to the fantasy section, I will not find them. So unless you have some actual argument to back up your "Star Wars is not sci-fi" dogma, please stop uttering that inane mantra every single time the subject of Star Wars is brought up. It's both, people.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[TheSteve]

This would be a prime opportunity to make a completely different final trilogy - to complete the story and provide another feel. The first set was funny, adventurous and believeable - adolescent, even. The second was for a younger stage of life. What could the third be like? Starting with the feel at the end of the current storyline, using new technology, becoming more serious with the story and portrayal? Not so much an apology as a completion. Their quality scales may have been reversed, but then so was the order in which we watched them. The best may be yet to come.

The final three could be like he's never done and we've never seen before - they could be larger in size, scale and epicness than even the Lord of the Rings films. They could be mature, thoughtful, genuinely funny, dramatic and moving films that could sweep the Oscars and be everything anyone ever could have hoped for in Star Wars movies!

We can only hope to find the force is strong with Lucas.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[bfields]

Star Wars is NOT sci-fi!

It's fantasy.

I'm less certain.

American Heritage Dictionary, 4th edition (by way of dictionary.com):

A literary or cinematic genre in which fantasy, typically based on speculative scientific discoveries or developments, environmental changes, space travel, or life on other planets, forms part of the plot or background.

The OED:

Imaginative fiction based on postulated scientific discoveries or spectacular environmental changes, freq. set in the future or on other planets and involving space or time travel.

Google turns up a fascinating compilation of definitions of science fiction from science fiction authors and others.

Star Wars would fit well under some of these definitions, less well under others.

Most people think of any kind of fantastic fiction with space ships in it as being science fiction, and clearly it would be hard to write such a work without at least betraying some influence from that genre.

I find it makes communication easier if I use words in a way which other people will understand. So I'm inclined to accept a broader definition of science fiction and reserve some other term ("hard science fiction", maybe?) for works that are more focused on the technical underpinnings of an alternate world (which I'm assuming is closer to the definition you're working from).

--Bruce Fields

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[mrgreen4242]

He just let Peter Jackson direct them. And, preferable, let ANYONE else write them. A slashdot committee could come up with a better script than he did for the prequels.

Sadly the fact that Jackson has his own special effects workshop will probably preclude that from happening. :(

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[arose]

Because "IP" is unculture.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Planesdragon]

Your idea doesn't really make sense

It's not my idea. Leave USENET and go talk to a bookseller -- like the GM or owner of a local bookstore. Odds are that they'll be able to backup my statement.

"Speculative Fiction" isn't a historic genere. It's an attempt to redefine "S/F" to mean something broader, and it does make more sense than "Science Fiction". But it's still not a classic genere, and you probably won't find "Speculative fiction" as a section in a bookstore.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Planesdragon]

So LOTR is science fiction too? Right, because there is so much science there?

Actually, there is. LOTR was in many ways a speculative exposition to backup the myriad of languages and linguistic shifts that Tolkein devised.

There's easily as much science behind LOTR as there is behind, oh, 2001 or Issac Assimov's Robot series. It's just not technological science, so it has a clearly different feel.

(and to be really anal, it fits science's "if X, then Y, right?" mold very well.)

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Anonymous Coward]

That makes every thriller story Science Fiction also, seeing that psychology is a science as well.

And every story about society and culture, because sociology and anthropology are sciences.

Your definition of Science Fiction is too all encompassing. Ideas that are all encompassing are just as bad as ideas that encompass nothing - they are both useless.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[ultranova]

I agree. If you hadn't seen the original, these minor edits would not even make you think twice. All the edits do is take advantage of some new technology, they don't change anything.

Yes, they would. There is one part in the Special Editions, in Empire Strikes Back, where Vader says "Bring my shuttle" after Luke's gone down the shaft. The problem is that that one comment is done in a very bad imitation voice. You've just listened to this guy talk for almost the entire movie, and suddenly the voice changes. It might seem like a minor thing, but I just don't get it: they put all this new CG in, so would it really had killed them to either do this scene well or not at all ?

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Kirsha]

If you are so anal about it, then why have generes? By your definition, every single piece of literature could very well then be considered science fiction in one way or another. Sorry, but no can do.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[cparisi]

I saw ROTJ at 16 and I thought it was awesome! However, my 16 year old cousin who saw it at the same time had several complaints!
1) Did not like Ewoks. Too cute
2) Did not like how Luke called "Father, help me!" while being zapped by the Emperor.

I remember responding that those things did not bother me at all... In fact it had not even occured to me that someone would find a problem with them until he mentioned them. I was suprised to hear about the big backlash against Ewoks later on.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Mark Hood]

Actually, yes it does. Sci-fi, even "hard" sci-fi, introduces devices that cannot be manufactured at current technological level.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" - Arthur C. Clarke.

Now the magic abilities of LOTR & similar fantasy is presented as innate abilities of (some of) the 'people' who populate the world.
Compare this with the Jedi, force users and adepts. Until the 'midichlorians' were introduced, this was accepted as certain people being able to tap into the 'force which surrounds all living beings' - sounds pretty magical to me, not technological.

As for the tools of these 'magic force users', in LOTR magic rings & swords are, if not common, at least known of and accepted as such. In Star Wars we accept that the basis for the 'magical' devices is technology ("I see you have constructed a new light saber"), but then in LOTR 'people' created the magic rings, magic swords and all the rest - so isn't that advanceed technology?

I think it's tricky to draw a line, but if I had to, it couldn't be solely on the basis of technobabble, as you rightly point out, but it would be based on the attitude of the inhabitants of the universe. If we try and say 'I made this, and I used scientific principles' (even if those principles are technobabble, look at Star Trek!) then I'd say it's Sci-Fi. If we accept 'it's magic, and I made this device to tap the magical energies' then it's fantasy. Even if the device gathers magical rays from the air and produces a picture of things from far away.... Is it a TV? or a scrying stone?

I feel there's a very wide grey area between Sci-Fi and Fantasy, and the division is one of tone - the author gets to decide which it is, and he writes in that fashion. Perhaps this is why my local bookshop lumps them all together into 'sci-fi/fantasy' - to avoid this argument!

Mark

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[OpenSourceOfAllEvil]

Fantasy has been around far longer than Sci-Fi a genre hardly over a 100 years old. Fantasy is as old as religion. Only Empire Strikes Back is fantasy, and deliberately so out of the mouth of the director himself who stated he deliberately wanted specific symbolisms from fantasy in the film and TO NOT MAKE A SCI_FI MOVIE. This is also why Kershner felt it was key for Luke to feel pain in his right hand at the end of the film even though it is artificial. For a hero to lose his right hand means he has lost touch with Good. Let Jim Henson Studios do the TV show. Many early Farscape eps that involve the Peacekeepers are very Empire in feel. It also might not suck out of LucasFilm's hands. Who knows what Lucas will do with 7,8 & 9. Even though novels supposedly all go through his personal approval he still has changed the mythos in the film. Otherwise, the plot of the final trilogy is in the novels. Luke is the one destined to bring balance to the light & dark sides of the force and a generation of fanatical "gray" Jedi are born.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[adolfojp]

I believe that science fiction is a genre where science is used to drive, or at least support the plot. Star Trek is Sci Fi, Dune is Sci Fi/Fantasy. Fantasy is a world where a scientific explanation is not given to the magical events. LOTR is fantasy, old school pre midiclorian count Star Wars is fantasy.

What if we were to chandge the backgroung of Star Wars. What if in SW instead of shooting laserbeams into a reactor while being guided by the magical powers of a dead samurai master they were shooting a magical arrow from a winged horse while being guided by the magical powers of a dead samurai?

What if I were to rewrite star wars with magic and wizards, and fantastic creatures and fantastic worlds where no scientific explanation is given to the magical phenomena. Oh... wait ;-)

Lets change the background for LOTR. Instead of a ring, you could have an ancient Sith artifact. Instead of hawks and dragons you have starships instead of gandalf you have Yoda or Obi Wan and instead of swords you have light sabers. And then you have the Hobbit that comes from the boonies from a simple life learn about the powers of the ancient sith artifact while trying to destroy if but is instead drawn to the dark side of the... force, ring?

And what about the gungans and the wookies and the Ewoks, they seem to live in pseuso middle ages.

Well, you get my point

Cheers,

Adolfo

At least we can agree to disagree. :-)

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[eugene ts wong]

They would need to grow up and be serious (probably overly serious) and in effect age with thier audience to make most Star Wars fans happy.

This can't be underscored enough. A while ago, when I watched Phantom again, I couldn't help but marvel @ the Bugs Bunny style slap stick humour: Jar Jar being thrown all over the place & then having birds fly around his head. I honestly don't understand what could compel someone to add that to sci-fi. It would be like adding canned laughter to every Star Trek episode.

It's truly insulting to the audience.

Disclaimer: regarding the birds flying around his head, I could be wrong, because I am forgetful, but that's the impression that I get with the 1st episode.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Performaman]

"And, preferable, let ANYONE else write them."
Like Harve Bennett. Hopefully he could do for Star Wars what he did for the Star Trek films.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Descartes]

I'm not sure this really helps but I've seen Star Wars classified as a "Space Opera". It really isn't Sci-i, but others have proved that point quite well.
A New Hope was based on an old samurai movie called "The Hidden Fortress" which I think is pretty good proof that setting it in space was not integral to the story.

Star Trek is Sci-fi. It's in the future, it features technology that might one day exist and draws a direct line to present day science. Aliens and rayguns are important parts of the story.

Calling Fantasy a subgenre of Sci-fi is absurd. There is nothing scientific about LOTR or, I daresay, your unpublished novel. That's the whole point of the term, there is fictional science that enables the incredible things to happen in these stories.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[sharkey]

He wonâ(TM)t be satisfied until Star Wars is the campiest sci-fi series ever put on film.

I hear Adam West and Burt Ward will be making an appearance in the Episode 8 double-feature: "Return of the Dynamic Duo" and "Alfred Meets Jar-Jar".

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[esukafurone]

Blade Runner is my favorite movie, actually... but I still like a "Shiney Nickel" movie once in a while ;)

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[lee7guy]

Fantasy is a sub-genere of Sci-fi.

Um, yeah. Right.

Would you please be kind enough, pointing out the scientific parts of LOTR, The Belgariad or The sword of truth (bad series)? These are afaik, prime examples of what is considered Fantasy.

Sure, not all stuff that people label Science Fiction is that scientific either, but at least SF mostly tries to tell us what might happen in the future and what technology, society and science of the era might have evolved into.

SF could be seen as a genre of Fantasy, but imo SF and Fantasy are already defined as two separate generes (where overlaps occur, which you mentioned) by most of their readers. Fantasy is the genre where you will find magic, dragons, orchs, goblins, swordfighters or other similar characters, set in an enviroment that more often than not bear some resemblace of medieval or pre medieaval Europe.

If you take the overlaps as proof of point, then it is probaly useless trying to convince you otherwise. But, I can assure you most fans of these kinds of litterature relatively easily can single out what genre the book in question belongs to, by reading a few chapters.

Hint:

If it is Fantasy with elements of SF, place it in the Fantasy bookcase.

If it is SF with elements of Fantasy, place it in the SF bookcase.

Some cases like Stephen King's gunslinger series are very hard to define. In these cases you can always use the classification: good novels (or bad).

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Planesdragon]

Calling Fantasy a subgenre of Sci-fi is absurd.

Look, *I* didn't come up with the terminology. I'm just trying to distribute clue with regards to the emptimology of the term.

Genre by and large is meaningless, and used only for marketing. The same folk who read 2001 will read LOTR. Those who watch Star Wars will watch Star Trek or Xena.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[ChrisMaple]

Book store organizations are only marginally related to proper understanding of genres. Science fiction pretends to stay within the limits of what is known to be possible (with certain common exceptions, such as FTL), fantasy blatantly ignores known science. Since it's sometimes hard to tell the difference, since some authors write in both genres, and since the fan bases overlap, bookstores dump them all on the same shelves, sometimes labelled "science fiction/fantasy".

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[lee7guy]

You are joking, right?

Most booksellers in general bookstores wouldn't recognize a Fantasy or SF book if it jumped up and bit them in the knee.

Their interests mostly lies in knowing their classics and reading the new hip author of the week, or maybe the latest Nobel Prize winner. In their eyes Fantasy or SF is low litterature, which would be kicked out of the shop faster than you could say ... if the worthless crap just didn't sell so many copies.

"Speculative Fiction" isn't a historic genere.

I guess you are trying to say "commonly accepted genre". But guess what? Your attempt to classify Fantasy as a sub genre of Science Fiction is even less so, at least among us that actually read the stuff.

Please explain why the fans of the genres would bow down to the genre explanations of librarians and booksellers whose experience of SF/Fantasy at most might extend to LOTR or Asimov's foundation series.

Would you willingly let a general physician perform a brain surgery on your mother?

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[lee7guy]

The same folk who read 2001 will read LOTR. Those who watch Star Wars will watch Star Trek or Xena.

Have you actually ever met or spoken to anyone interrested in SF/Fantasy at all?

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Oligonicella]

"Fantasy is a sub-genere of Sci-fi. It was a reinvention of the dead heroic myth genere in the late 19th century after science fiction writers like Jules Verne (!) proved that the novel-reading audience would read blatantly not-true stories."

Oh, really? Then E.A.Poe (1809-1849) wasn't writing fantasy? Gulliver's Travels (1675) isn't fantasy?

Ummm, bullshit.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Adriax]

those furry little previews of the abortion to come

I'd take an ewok over a gungan any day...

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[snStarter]

Noooooo......it's Space Opera rendered in all its visual glory related to Lensmen, the Culture, and other tales of super science.

Definately NOT fantasy.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Azrael Newtype]

Actually, it's not based on Hidden Fortress that much, which is rather apparent for people who've seen it. The biggest thing Lucas lifted from the Kurosawa classic is that the story is largely told from the two lowliest characters. In the case of Hidden Fortress, it's two bickering peasants, whereas in Star Wars it's from R2 and 3PO the bickering droids. Lucas even talks about this in a commentary on the Criterion Collection DVD of Hidden Fortress.

This doesn't really negate the point that Star Wars isn't sci-fi, nor does it mean that calling fantasy a subgenre of sci-fi isn't ridiculous (I'd actually be more willing to say the opposite), but the link between Star Wars and Hidden Fortress is very overhyped.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Spangston]

I saw a Charlie Rose show this week, and George Lucas was his guest for the hour. Therein, they, obviously, spoke of Star Wars.

Lucas mentioned how he wanted to make a movie that was just like opening the middle of a book and seeing what happens for a while (not verbatim, merely the gist), and that he didn't originally intend to make more than one movie. However, he wrote quite a bit more than he anticipated, and so made the other two to finish that story.

The Ep. 1, 2 and 3 movies were just to frame the latter trilogy in the Star Wars universe.

Here's the most interesting part: George Lucas himself said that now he wants to move on. He only made Ep's 1, 2 and 3 because the oportunity presented itself. He is DONE with Star Wars, and will now move on and do new things he's always wanted to do.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[The Dobber]

Maybe he's angling for an appearance on MST3k. Pity the Mysties have gone off the air, EP 1 & 2 would have made great fodder for Mike and the bots.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Keebler71]

There is no science behind warp drives or telepathic hot chicks in spandex either.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Anonymous Coward]

Sci-Fi = Spaceships
Fantasy = psuedo-Middle Ages

Are alternate histories SF or Fantasy? Most people think they are SF. Are the classic Lovecraft stories Fantasy or SF? Most people would say fantasy, even when there are traditional SF elements involved in the story (spaceflight, timetravel).

I'd say the best distinction between Fantasy and Science Fiction is the intent of the author. If Star Wars is classified as SF it is very bad SF, if it is qualified as Fantasy it is pretty good fantasy. Every time Star Wars tries to treat technology as anything other than magic there is a problem: sound in vacuum, midichlorians, unsupported economic and political systems, armor that does not work against the common weapons, weapons so incaccurate as to be useless . If the world is magic then those elements have to be vaguely consistent and that is good enough.

BTW Since you are an AC troll I am not going to dignify your response with a login.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[yellowjacket03]

I believe that this dialogue was recorded by James Earl Jones in a looping session for A New Hope and it was inserted here. It sounds different but it's still JEJ.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[the_2nd_coming]

the 3rd series will be about how luke turns dark and Leha pulls him back. if you notice, Luke had a pretty cold and dark manor about him in Jedi.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, you have a point, and I get it. But let's face it, there's a ton of "Science Fiction" that has nearly no science in it at all, from Buck Rodgers to Star Trek to The Matrix. The fact is that the "Science Fiction" is incorrect shorthand for "has spaceships and laserbeams and stuff". Any other conclusion is both over-thinking things and in violent disagreement with nearly ever bookstore.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[adolfojp]

I can also see your point, it is very valid. The Buck Rogers example is a great one.

I believe this fits in the same category as hacker and cracker.

And I must say that perhaps my statement was more of an ideological one and yours more of an actual reality based nature.

I have a way with loosing touch with reality. ;-)

Cheers,

Adolfo

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Nyder]

man, I thought you were serious till the last post.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone else envision comic book guy after those last few posts?

(not in a bad way, btw).

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[geminidomino]

ITYM "Joel and the bots." ;)

Mike Nelson was OK, but Joel Hodgeson not only had the genius to create the show that launched a thousand quips, but that "I'm totally stoned" delivery that made you wet your pants laughing so hard.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Forbman]

A bookseller? It just makes it easy to keep the geeks (i.e., scifi/fantasy) readers, along with horror/mystery (how do those two get lumped together?), away from all the other groups, and for the usual big-box book seller, Sci-Fi/Fantasy works out conveniently to one or two book shelf units, as does Horror/Mystery.

That is, unless you go to a store like Powell's Books in Portland, OR, or its equivalent in Boston.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Planesdragon]

(looks in mirror)

Yep.

(Looks at bookshelf, thinks of mother, brothers, friends, random aqauintances, most of /.)

Yeah, and the overlap's there too.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Planesdragon]

Then E.A.Poe (1809-1849) wasn't writing fantasy?

No. He was writing either poetry or horror, depending on if you're talking about his original market or the folk who buy his reprints.

The man was most certainly NOT fantasy.

Gulliver's Travels (1675) isn't fantasy?

I believe the 17th century is far back enough to count as part of the "dead heroic myth" genre.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[pthisis]

You may choose to define it however you want, but to the average English-speaking person it is precisely the technobabble and backdrop that make the difference between sci-fi and fantasy.

There's a genre jargon definition of sci-fi that is along the lines of having a rational explanation for how things work, but in English it means having blinkenlights and cool tech instead of dragons and magic wands. The only real difference between a blaster and a magic wand is a technobabble/backdrop one, but it turns out to most people that's a very large distinction (so much so that most people would consider the first Pern book to be fantasy even though to a hardcore fan there's an argument to be made that it fits the jargon definition of sci-fi).

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[pthisis]

Well, in *English* the distinction between sci-fi and fantasy is exactly the background. If you change Star Wars to have magical arrows and flying horses instead of blasters and X-Wings then you just changed the genre.

Any definition of sci-fi that puts Star Wars outside that category is not the same as the common English language definition. If you're looking for more precise or alternative terms, don't overload an already meaningful word; at least use a phrase like "hard sci-fi" (or a broader alternative if required) that doesn't sow confusion and misappropriate a perfectly good word.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Siniset]

wow, a slashdot discussion actually ending in an acceptance that both parties are right... i thought i'd never see the day.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Build6]

HIS OWN IP... so that Chewbacca is pink and 3 feet tall he can do that.


so you're saying that the fans have no say or value, that their memories and emotional investment are not worth any more than the $$ they have handed over to the business and that that's ALL they can ever hope for, to have their money be worth taking?

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Anonymous Coward]

With all the talk of Kurasawa/Campbell/etc, I think even Lucas forgot that Star Wars was really just supposed to be Buck Rodgers.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[evilviper]

Star Wars is NOT sci-fi!

It's fantasy.

No, it's definately Sci-Fi.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Anonymous Coward]

Note that technobabble isn't really present in the Star Wars universe, the technology is just there and used, but not explained.

Star Trek is the franchise notorious for attempting to explain things using technobabble...

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Glyndwr]

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" - Arthur C. Clarke.

"Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced." Gregory Benford.

And now to drag my tenuous post back to some semblence of the topic, I agree with Mark -- there is no strong division between sci-fi and fantasy, and there are plenty of things (e.g. the Shadowrun RPG) that manage to be both at once.

(There, that should keep the mods happy...)

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Jesus_666]

It would be like adding canned laughter to every Star Trek episode.

Although it might be funny to take a few of the worse ones and do exactly that.

BTW, what we really need is to run The Phantom Menace through Mystery Science Theater 3000. I'd pay to see that.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[tverbeek]

Look, *I* didn't come up with the terminology. I'm just trying to...

...present it to the rest of you on stone tablets from on high.

This isn't a question of some great Truth that you can foist upon people by appeal to some unnamed authority. It's an opinion, a point of view. If you agree with it, then defend it. If you don't agree with it, then don't expect anyone else to.

P.S. It's patent nonsense.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[julesh]

Leave USENET and go talk to a bookseller -- like the GM or owner of a local bookstore. Odds are that they'll be able to backup my statement.

Booksellers don't decide what's a genre and what isn't. They usually file books according to the genre printed on the back of them (normally just above and to the left of the bar code). So, publishers define the genre. And the publishers are led by their editors.

Here's what one well known editor in the SF field has to say on the matter.

I'll leave people to draw their own conclusions.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, Poe's original works were detective writings, and thus his original market read those.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[ultranova]

There's a genre jargon definition of sci-fi that is along the lines of having a rational explanation for how things work, but in English it means having blinkenlights and cool tech instead of dragons and magic wands.

So what category should Dragonstar go ? It has spaceships which use rocket engines to move in star systems, and magical teleportation artifacts ("starcasters") to move between systems, the idea being that technology has to obey the laws of nature, but magic can ignore them - but, on the other hand, technological items can be mass-produced while magical ones can't.

And of course, as the name implies, it has a star empire ruled by dragons.

It has both blinkenlights and dragons, blasters and magick wands, engineers and wizards. So, is it fantasy or sci-fi ?

The point being that sci-fi and fantasy are overlapping, not exclusive, genres.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[eugene ts wong]

MST3? That's a hilarious idea! I'd pay to see it too.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[pthisis]

It's both (assuming your description is accurate).

Not every movie is in exactly one genre--there are plenty of sci-fi horror movies, or period mysteries, or whatever else.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[pthisis]

Uh, in the real world "moisture vaporator", "R2 unit", "blaster", "make the kessel run in under 12 parsecs", "protocol droid", etc. are all technobabble. It doesn't have to be explanatory (or even sensible--under 12 parsecs?)

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[shokk]

I think this came from the fact that some of the story had been leaked and we knew they were supposed to originally be wookies. The concept of the forest planet even comes from Kashyyk, the wookie planet. Somewhere that got cutesied because of the potential toy merchandizing and a million stomachs turned as they become ewoks. True, it's Uncle George's story and he can spin the yarn as he likes, but it's my eyes that rolled into the back of my head.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Anonymous Coward]

> Gulliver's Travels (1675) isn't fantasy?

Actually, I believe Gulliver's Travels is political allegory.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Descartes]

Yeah, you caught me being pretensious. I haven't seen hidden fortress. But my point was just that you can make any story seem Sci-Fi just by adding some droids and ray guns.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sorry, but "blaster"? Come on. It blasts things. That's not technobabble. That's just what the damn raygun does! Further, "protocol droid" isn't technobabble. Well, you might could argue "droid" is, but a protocol droid is just a "droid" that knows protocol. By your definition, an "elven cloak" or "dwarven ambassador" are technobabble because they're the names of things used in an alternate reality.

Re:A big stick and a dead horse

[pthisis]

No, elven cloak and dwarven ambassador are fantasybabble. The definition is primarily about setting.

Heh

[cbrocious]

Has anyone else wondered if there's a competition between Star Wars and Star Trek as to who can drive their respective franchises into the ground farther and faster?

Re:Heh

[Daneurysm]

...and you don't think Star Trek--despite Star Wars many efforts as of late--hasn't beaten Starwars handily already?

I mean...I remember thinking ST:TNG was a stretch.

Oh, That poor puddle of goo that used to be a horse...

Re:Heh

[Coryoth]

Has anyone else wondered if there's a competition between Star Wars and Star Trek as to who can drive their respective franchises into the ground farther and faster?

I think a Star Wars TV series is a great step forward. Rick Berman has been well ahead of Lucas for years now, due to the sheer volume of crap that can be produced with a weekly TV show. As hard as Lucas has worked, particularly with the new reworked special edition versions for DVD, Berman has, what, 5 seasons of Voyager behind him (okay, disregarding time travel, holodeck, and other "it never really happened episodes, maybe only 1 or 2 seasons)? You just can't compete with that sort of thing. While continuing to make some of the worst Star Trek feature films ever, Berman has been pumping out Enterprise.

But that's all going to change. Lucas has wised up. His glory years (Caravan of Courage, and Battle for Endor anyone?) are behind him, but he's still capable of of making everything cutesy and pointless for no good reason. Given an opportunity to get crap on air on a weekly basis can really bury the franchise - you only need to look at Droids, or the Star Wars Christmas Special to see what truly amazing things Lucas can do with the TV medium. That level of spectacularly awful work could undercut Berman's years of effort in under a season.

Star Wars' prospects are definitely looking up (or down, as the case may be).

Jedidiah.

Re:Heh

[siskbc]

Has anyone else wondered if there's a competition between Star Wars and Star Trek as to who can drive their respective franchises into the ground farther and faster?

That's "to boldly drive their respective franchises into ground that no other franchise has ever been driven."

It needed a nice Roddenberry misplaced modifier. ;)

Re:Heh

[Masque]

It's still a competition for the silver medal, however, after the last two Matrix films set a world record in the 200 Minute Suck.

Re:Heh

[the argonaut]

More specifically, a split infinitive.

Damn you Ms. Matthews (my freshman HS English teacher, who used that specific example. Or as she said, "When you're rich and famous you can split all the infinitives you want, but if you want an A in my class. . .)

Re:Heh

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn you Ms. Matthews (my freshman HS English teacher, who used that specific example. Or as she said, "When you're rich and famous you can split all the infinitives you want, but if you want an A in my class. . .)

Mind you, avoiding split infinitives is sometimes known to more than double the length of a sentence.

And I'd like to see any of the grammar nazis here "correct" the above example without resorting to an extremely clumsy paraphrase like "increase the length of a sentence more than twofold"...

Re:Heh

[bar-agent]

Star Trek was the first to be driven into the ground. Anyone who can give up on Star Trek has already done so, but there are still optimists for Star Wars.

Re:Heh

[shigelojoe]

It's still a competition for the silver medal, however, after the last two Matrix films set a world record in the 200 Minute Suck.

That number can't be right, because I distinctly remember Trinity's death scene from "Matrix Revolutions" being at least five hours long.

Re:Heh

[wideBlueSkies]

And yet, J. Michael Straczynski who has produced what I think is the best Sci-Fi televison since the Twilight Zone and Trek TOS, can't get any more of his B5 ideas on TV.

It's sad to see Trek limp along while the B5 Universe has so much potential.

wbs.

Re:Heh

[binary paladin]

Although, I did really enjoy the Clone Wars cartoon miniseries. Maybe I'm simple minded, but if there's a weekly show that ends in a lightsaber duel every single time it airs, I could give a rat's ass about the rest of the content.

Re:Heh

[Anonymous Coward]

Mind you, avoiding split infinitives is sometimes known to more than double the length of a sentence.

"Mind you, avoiding split infinitives will sometimes more than double the length of a sentence."

Just had to be a smart ass :), but I agree with you that the whole "split infinitive" restriction does not make sense for English.

Re:Heh

[Reziac]

About which the guy sitting next to me said: "Just fucking DIE already and get it the hell over with!!"

Re:Heh

[geminidomino]

Don't forget the (mercifully) short-lived "Ewoks" Saturday-morning cartoon series. I think it was out shortly before, or maybe after, the well-deserved death of "Droids"

Re:Heh

[Bob Uhl]

Split infinitives are perfectly grammatical English. What they are not is proper Latin (it's impossible, actually), which for a long time was considered to be the gold standard of tongues. Idiot grammarians tried to squeeze a good Germanic tongue into a Romantic mold, and invented all sorts of foolish rules.

Don't even get me started about the bias against double negatives, which date back to Anglo-Saxon...

Re:Heh

[zoeblade]

Rick Berman has been well ahead of Lucas for years now, due to the sheer volume of crap that can be produced with a weekly TV show.

It's (lack of) quality, not quantity. Four words: Star Wars Holiday Special.

Re:Heh

[evilviper]

you only need to look at Droids, or the Star Wars Christmas Special to see what truly amazing things Lucas can do with the TV medium. That level of spectacularly awful work could undercut Berman's years of effort in under a season.

But the question is, can Lucas keep the level of awfulness that high for that long? Typically, the short time-span they have in which to write the stories undercuts the level of shittyness they would have liked to achieve.

Re:Heh

[the argonaut]

Well, the American Heritage Book of English Usage and I believe the MLA as well both say it's not grammatically correct. However, as the link above notes it is becoming more acceptable.

And you're correct as far as the origin of the rule goes.

Re:Heh

[Anonymous Coward]

"Mind you, avoiding split infinitives is sometimes known to increase the length of a sentence by double or more."
It's two more words, and it's not clumsy. Prepositions are your friend ;)

I know...

[dfn5]

I don't know if I should be happy or scared

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

Re:I know...

[daeley]

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Avoiding conflict

[slumpy]

When the show comes on, I'll change the channel FIRST!

Scared or happy?

[slavemowgli]

Scared. Definitely scared - maybe I'm a pessimist, but I think that this will be just more commercialization.

Re:Scared or happy?

[Daneurysm]

Scared. Definitely scared - maybe I'm a pessimist, but I think that this will be just more commercialization.

No kiddin, I mean, I remember when Starwars used to be cool, before they sold out. They were just doin' it for the wookies man, now they are only in it for the money...back in the day man, it wasn't man. It wasn't.

Re:Scared or happy?

[d474]

Definitely scared - maybe I'm a pessimist, but I think that this will be just more commercialization.

It's not so much the commercialization I'm afraid of as much as the look. Can you imagine how expensive each episode would cost!? Using the last 2 episodes in film as a reference, the sheer amount of CG characters is going to be impossible to replicate in a weekly format.

So my prediction is to be afraid, because either the CG characters are going to look pretty sub-par, OR, there will be just primarliy human actors in costume. But then that would totally defeat the purpose of watching a Star Wars story.

A Bink's Tale

[Ch3schir3]

So we watch 4,5,6, and think its about Luke. We watch 1,2,3, and realize that its about Vader. We watch 7,8,9 and maybe we will finally realize it's just about an old man who doesn't know when to let someone else take over.

Re:A Bink's Tale

[_Shorty-dammit]

we'll see it's really about Jar-Jar...

Re:A Bink's Tale

[Ch3schir3]

I think Jar Jar is actually Lucas trying to represent himself as a teenager. Anakin is himself as a preteen, and as an old man. Maybe at the last second he will realize he messed up and Episode 9 will be written by Zahn instead.

Re:A Bink's Tale

[DrWho520]

I consider Episodes 4-6 to be about the redemption of the Scoundrel, Han Solo. Seriously, who wants to watch a movie about a whiny, little bitch like Luke Skywalker?

Re:A Bink's Tale

[L0k11]

oh yeah, thats right, the whole republic turned empire thingy was jar jar's doing wasn't it?

Re:A Bink's Tale

[Anonymous Coward]

Mark Hamill's comments about episodes 7, 8 and 9:

"I was never really a good actor. Plus I grew old too fast, then I fucked up my face. So its safe to say, I will not be in episodes 7, 8 and 9."

Re:A Bink's Tale

[lee7guy]

Actually, in a narrative sense you are more right than your scornful remark makes it seem.

The classical definition of a protagonist (about whom the story is told) is of a man or woman who changes or matures into something different.

Problem is, in star wars we have multiple protagonists:

Luke, from whiny teenager to almost a full grown, responsible man.

Han-Solo, from smuggler to law abiding good guy (who gets the girl).

Vader, from evil incarnate to caring father. (Or rather, from nice young boy to evil incarnate, back to good guy, if we count ep. 1 - 3).

Hm, a stretch, this last example is.

But, get my point, you do.

Re:A Bink's Tale

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that Han Solo is fully redeemed at the end of the first movie (when he saves Luke's butt and gets a medal).

He was never a very convincing "scoundrel" either.

Re:A Bink's Tale

[chaoticset]

Ooooh, wait! I say it's about, uh...okay, okay! I say it's actually about the cantina! Yeah!

No, wait -- it's about the lightsaber...yeah. It's about the lightsaber! And, and, it's actually a fable about Communism! YES!

Who knew that George Lucas was actually pulling a David Lynch?

Re:A Bink's Tale

[alien_blueprint]

So we watch 4,5,6, and think its about Luke. We watch 1,2,3, and realize that its about Vader. We watch 7,8,9 and maybe we will finally realize it's just about an old man who doesn't know when to let someone else take over.

It's about John Howard?!

I always wanted to do this... ;)

[grm_wnr]

Server's going down. Here's the text:

Mark Hamill Talks Star Wars Epis. 7, 8, & 9 Source: Scott Chitwood Friday, September 10, 2004 This past Wednesday, ComingSoon.net had the opportunity to attend Lucasfilm and Fox Home Entertainment's roll-out of the "Star Wars Trilogy" DVD set (Coming Sept. 21st.) One of the surprise guests at the event was Luke Skywalker himself, Mark Hamill. He ended up being one of the highlights of the presentation as he enthusiastically recalled humorous anecdotes about the making of the original films, working with Kevin Smith, seeing TROOPS for the first time, and more. However, his comments towards the end about Episodes 7, 8, and 9 really got everyone's attention. Mark told those in attendance what Lucas told him the third trilogy would be about. Hamill also went into detail about Lucas' original plans for those films, when they would be made, and more. Plus, Lucasfilm's Jim Ward confirmed that a "Star Wars" TV series is on the way in the near future (though he didn't say when it would be set). We thought you might like to hear Mark Hamill's comments in his own voice. Simply download this 5 minute MP3 file and enjoy! It's only 2 MB in size: MARK HAMILL TALKS STAR WARS EPISODES 7, 8, & 9 Check back soon for more on this presentation as well as a full review of the DVD set. Look for Q&A sessions with "Empire Strikes Back" director Irvin Kershner, DVD guru Van Ling, documentary filmmaker Ken Burns, and more!

Only 2MB, eh? Let's see if you can handle it...

Re:I always wanted to do this... ;)

[Amiga Lover]

I managed to download & re-encode the mp3 to under 1/4 its size. It's mirrored here. Someone else help with the mirroring please.

Re:I always wanted to do this... ;)

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone want to summarise the mp3? I can't be bothered to listen to it.

Re:I always wanted to do this... ;)

[ricotest]

The server handles it, although connection takes a bit of time and I'm getting 4.0 KB/sec on a 768 Kbps connection. I think slow speed for all users is much better than connection timeouts for 90% of them, so kudos to nexcess.net ;)

Re:I always wanted to do this... ;)

[hobo2k]

It really isn't worth downloading, much less listening to.

A fan asks Hamil about movies 7, 8, 9. Hamil replies with some stories about filming the original movies. He mentions that George's original idea involved 4 trilogies (12 movies). He also mentions that somebody said to him "Hey they're doing 7,8,9!" But he doesn't say who that person was.

Re:I always wanted to do this... ;)

[hamsterspeed]

yer mirror looks to be about one octet short of an IPv4

Re:I always wanted to do this... ;)

[br00tus]

I'm sharing it on Gnutella with the original title "comingsoon hamill swdvd1". I suppose a search for swdvd1 on Gnutella would find it.

Re:I always wanted to do this... ;)

[tverbeek]

A mildly entertaining bit of chit-chat, but really no information. Hammil doesn't actually say anything substantive about Eps 7-9. He says that, no, Eps 7 and later would not (when/if) be The Adventures of Luke Skywalker, Jedi. He mentions that Lucas was at one time thinking in about doing 12 episodes, and that Lucas asked him in '76 if he'd be available in '11, so Luke could do the aging mentor bit for the next hero.

mp3 download redirects to google

[_Shorty-dammit]

heh, getting nuked already, the mp3 download just brings up google here

Just wait

[Anonymous Coward]

Can't people just wait until all 6 come out in a director's cut edition! omg

Re:Just wait

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder how much taming and censoring there would be in THAT edition of the series.

Han Solo doesn't just NOT fire first, he offers a bouquet of flowers. All using current special effects that make the movie look even faker than the previous edition, once again.

You should be very afraid..

[Man in Spandex]

I don't know if I should be happy or scared...

Be afraid for you will see the dreaded star wars tv ads where JarJar goes "MESA WANNA STARWARS, THISA ON 8 OCLOCKA BE HERA!"

Got only one thing to say. Kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkhaaaaannnnnnn!

he

[Spytap]

Mark told those in attendance what Lucas told him the third trilogy would be about.
How Long ago did Lucas tell Mark Hamill about this, was this sometime back when they were originally filming?

Re:he

[Anonymous Coward]

Listen to the f'in clip, and you will hear Mark Hamill say it was back when they were originally filming.

Re:he

[cfuse]

How Long ago did Lucas tell Mark Hamill about this, was this sometime back when they were originally filming?

And did he mention anything about Greedo shooting first?

Ob. Spaceballs Reference

[DarkHelmet]

Star Wars Ep 7: The Search for More Money

Think Mel Brooks would actually mind that?

Re:Ob. Spaceballs Reference

[Raster Burn]

Spaceballs was eerily prophetic, eh? All hail Yogurt the wise!

Re:Ob. Spaceballs Reference

[Murdock037]

Slighty off-topic, but funny nonetheless:

A friend once told me, after watching Mel Brooks' commentary on the Spaceballs DVD, that Brooks said he'd wanted to do a sequel.

The title he wanted to use, though, wasn't Spaceballs 2: The Search for More Money, as Yogurt had prophesized. He wanted the title to be Spaceballs 3: The Search for Spaceballs 2.

Re:Ob. Spaceballs Reference

[rd_syringe]

Anyone else think a new Spaceballs sequel in this day and age would be funny as hell? Imagine all the jabs at Lucas and the prequel trilogy.

Re:Ob. Spaceballs Reference

[billbaggins]

Sounds like something a few people from my college did... wonder if that's where they got the idea...?

Re:Ob. Spaceballs Reference

[Rotting]

I for one would love to see this but I just don't know if it would feel quite right without John Candy.

I suppose he could get around this with a prequel though.

Re:Ob. Spaceballs Reference

[koi_fish]

And Pizza the Hut hosts a breadstick race around the buffet...

Re:Ob. Spaceballs Reference

[toddestan]

I would be afraid that it would turn out like Airplane 2. Better to leave the Spaceballs legacy alone I say.

Re:Ob. Spaceballs Reference

[evilviper]

Anyone else think a new Spaceballs sequel in this day and age would be funny as hell?

Only if it's not written by Mel Brooks. He hasn't been funny in a decade now...

Who's going to write it then? Knowing the studios, they'd hire the morons that worked on "Scary Movie", and you know how that would turn out.

There's no good, well-known comedy writers anymore. Almost certainly a side-effect of stand-up being nothing but dirty jokes anymore...

Re:Ob. Spaceballs Reference

[Marxist Hacker 42]

I think he should do Spaceballs 0: Darth's College Years, with plenty of wedgies.

Star Wars: Voyager

[Anonymous Coward]

A jedi and his crew are thrown across the galaxy into an area of space where the force is unknown with new enemies and challenges. Will they ever make it home?

L2TFA

[victor_the_cleaner]

Not only do we get the standard /. effect they have a 2MB .mp3 that contains the content everybody wants to read/hear.

So I guess you can't say RTFA you'll have to say L2TFA.

A great disturbance in the Force.

[torpor]

It was like a million geeks crying out in unison, then suddenly disappointed.

Mirror of mp3

[vanadium4761]

here

Re:Mirror of mp3

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

Very crappy quality.. Hard to make out what he says! (At least for a non-english native dude like me)

But I did catch one important thing... Did Hamill say that Lucas originally planned 4 trilogy's? Star Wars 1-12? O_o Insane...

Charlie Rose interview

[captaineo]

In George Lucas' interview with Charlie Rose two days ago, he very firmly stated "no more Star Wars movies," he wants to do other films. Take that for what it's worth...

Re:Charlie Rose interview

[Anonymous Coward]

I shall indeed.

Re:Charlie Rose interview

[Bendebecker]

Maybe its just George Lucas who isn't doing another star wars movie. Maybe he decided to let someone else do the work. And maybe, just maybe, pigs fly.

Re:Charlie Rose interview

[ConceptJunkie]

he very firmly stated "no more Star Wars movies"

Yeah, "American Graffiti: Episode 1 - Opie Goes Cruising for Chicks"

Re:Charlie Rose interview

[L0k11]

and the articlehttp://www.theforce.net/holonet/index.shtml #24763 says

Charlie again went back to weather Star wars had kept George from doing other things. George said that he wants to do other movies, but that star wars is ALL consuming. He is now being released from that obligation. There will be NO MORE, there no reason to do more! He said he has some things lined up. A film on the Tuskeegee Airmen that he has been trying to get dome for some time. TV shows, he loves TV as a medium. Also to go with the Young Indy DVDs, he's working on 100 documentaries dealing with historical people and places in the Young Indy series.

is it just me or does that give the impression that once ep3 is finished there is no more star wars and he is actually doing different TV shows?

not that i'd trust him as far as i could throw him after seeing jar jar

Re:Charlie Rose interview

[MrCreosote]

Maybe he could do 'THX 1139'?

Re:Charlie Rose interview

[Reziac]

He's said that before. Several times. Shortly before announcing the next Star Wars film.

I remember back in 1977, Lucas swore up and down that the original Star Wars was a standalone film and there absolutely would NEVER be a sequel, because he didn't believe in sequels, period (he said something to the effect that only losers with no ability to create new material ever made sequels). Then Star Wars became a big hit -- and suddenly it was the first of a trilogy, and soon afterward was transmogrified into the 4th of nine that Lucas *now* swore up and down "he'd always planned to do".

Lucas is a master of "Hollywood truth": only what I say TODAY is true, and how dare you imply that I said something different yesterday!

Re:Charlie Rose interview

[DrXym]

He also stated there would be no Star Wars DVDs until all the prequels were done. George says a lot of crazy shit.

The sad thing is...

[Anonymous Coward]

...there are plenty of great storylines that could be used from any of the dozens of EU books. Yet, Lucas will still find a way to ruin the final portion of the saga...

Re:The sad thing is...

[Rallion]

Particularly the Thrawn Trilogy. God, would I love that...Hey, Thrawn and Palleon are confirmed to exist by Lucas, anybody remember the opening movie in TIE Fighter?

And for a time it was rumored to be in the works, too.

Re:The sad thing is...

[magefile]

And after the Thrawn Trilogy, maybe the Camaas duo? I do remember TIE ... damn that was a fun game.

Re:The sad thing is...

[Anonymous Coward]

Hate to break it to you, but just because the X-Wing series have the LucasArts name on them doesn't mean they're canon according to Lucas. I mean, most of the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight series (which buck the trend of SW games by being among the Best FPSes Ever) uses extended universe material.

Re:The sad thing is...

[Rallion]

If you go by what Lucas says, then almost all of the EU is canon. If you go by what he does, he is absolutely insane.

old and busted

[Anonymous Coward]

the IRS told me a rat's ass is not deductible, so...

SW v ST

[Nom du Keyboard]

And just how long before we get Star Wars verses Star Trek: The Search for more Profits?

Re:SW v ST

[Justin205]

1. Make more SW/ST.
2. ???
3. Profit!

But I think we all knew that one already, didn't we?

Re:SW v ST

[spektr]

Star Wars verses Star Trek

OMG, Chewbacca reciting his favourite poetry to a horde of cute muppet tribbles, as they rally for a devastating strike against the evil Klingon empire (Episode VII). I think I'm calling in sick.

Re:SW v ST

[Anonymous Coward]

Look on the bright side, though.

At least then we'd have a definitive answer to "Which one would win? The Enterprise D or a Star Destroyer"

Re:SW v ST

[stretch0611]

OMG, Chewbacca reciting his favourite poetry to a horde of cute muppet tribbles,...

This actually reminds me of seeing Shater doing spoken word songs for priceline commericials. SHUDDER

Re:SW v ST

[awtbfb]

Actually, go read David Brin's excellent essay "Star Wars despots vs. Star Trek populists". Really quite an interesting take on the two. Also available are follow-up comments.

Re:SW v ST

[jo42]

Chewbacca is a mutated tribble, no?

Money

[Viceice]

Dispite all the rants, If Episodes 7, 8 and 9 were made, they'd all do well at the box office. So is there any reason why they won't do it?

Good creative shows have been pulled because of money and stereotypical, nonsensical tripe put in replacement all in the name of money.

So whats makes SW diffrent?

Re:Money

[stuktongue]

I think the difference is that, despite what we think of the latest movies, (I believe) George Lucas really cares about the movies he's making. I think they are exactly what he wants, exactly how he envisions them (as opposed to, apparently, the original three). He is putting a tremendous amount of effort into these projects to realize his vision and probably is getting burned out in the process.

It's just too bad for us that his "imperfect" versions of the stories from the 1977-1983 timeframe are the ones we really like.

Re:Money

[bckrispi]

Good point about Lucas' motivation. But your comment about him being "burned out" is unfounded. If you watch the upcoming Empire of Dreams, you'll see just how much pressure he was under to get the first film out. The studio was fighting him all the way, effects shots weren't working, and by the time it was over, he was expecting a bomb that would end his career. Now, he calls the shots. It's his schedule, his money (Fox doesn't pay for production, they only distribute) and his vision. Honestly, the man's probably never been happier. And when you refer to "we" when discussing SW fans, remember, that there are millions of fans worldwide that *love* the entire story, prequels, and SE's included. We're not all in the "boo-hoo, George lucas raped my childhood" camp.

Re:Money

[wideBlueSkies]

>>I think the difference is that, despite what we think of the latest movies, (I believe) George Lucas really cares about the movies he's making.

Kind of reminds me of Rush in a way. Geddy Lee has said more than once that they don't care what the critics say, they just write and record songs that they want to play.

And there are plenty of Rush fanboys (myself included) who will run out and buy their records every 2 years or so, no matter how badly everyone else thinks they sound.

wbs.

Re:Money

[stuktongue]

You know, it's funny, because I was thinking of drawing an analogy with Rush in my post. Rush is my favorite group, so I am aware of criticisms, etc.

Many people dismiss everything after Moving Pictures. (Some people dismiss everything other than Moving Pictures!) These folks seem to want more and more Moving Pictures-type songs from the band, as though that is what Rush should ever be about.

Now, I have no problem with people liking Moving Pictures, or even thinking it's their fav Rush album. But the fact is that Rush has been around for thirty years now, making new music almost the entire time. And another fact is that there is a lot of good music in their more recent offerings. In part, this is because they have evolved in life and their music has evolved with them. For us listeners that have evolved, too, the gems are there.

I know I've never enjoyed concerts more than 2002's Vapor Trails tour (Manchester, NH) or this year's 30th anniversery tour (Hollywood Bowl, CA, and Irvine Meadows, CA).

Rock on!

Re:Money

[stuktongue]

Oh, yeah, I forgot to make my point w.r.t. SW and George Lucas vs. the Rush analogy. The big difference to me is that, aside from remastering their existing albums in the 1990's to take advantage of improvements in A/D technology, etc., Rush doesn't go back and change their work. They are content to let it rest on its merits, warts and all. And it rests just fine that way.

I think this is a key difference.

Re:Money

[wideBlueSkies]

A lot of guys I know got turned on by PW and MP, and lost interest when SIG and eventually P/G came out. Metalheads who thought the albums sounded gay or had too much in the way of keyboards...whatever.

I agree with your other post. They don't go back and re-record their old stuff....they let it stand for what it is. Though they do refuse to play their 'embarrasing' or 'simple' songs live. Which is why we'll never hear Lakeside Park or Camera Eye ever again.

Other acts have been known to hire musicians to replay certain parts of songs before remastering...Ozzy comes to mind...they had guys come in and redo the drums and bass for his first 2 albums. Seems sort of Lucas-Like, eh?

The 30th Anniversary show in NJ was prolly the best I've ever seen them. Rush shows are great, you get to rock out with thousands of other well behaved, mature geeks.

BTW, if sharingthegroove.org ever comes back up you can take a look there for boots from the tour. I got your Hollywood Bowl show, and night 1 in Nashville, from there. It's a torrent site.

wbs.

Re:Money

[iroll]

We may not all be in the "Lucas raped my childhood" camp, but I'd be shocked to see a poll that actually shows a majority of viewers accepting the prequels as "on par" with episodes 4,5,6.

Just cause they made millions of $ doesn't mean they didn't suck. See, for example, the Matrix 2,3; every Disney sequal-to-video; and many others at your local video store.

Re:Money

[stuktongue]

It's cool to talk with a Rush fan on here. (I'm sure there are plenty, but it's cool just the same to hear what you have to say.)

You're right about the metalhead reaction to synths and stuff. Oh, well; their loss I think. Of course, they're getting what they want again these days--Vapor Trails has some hard guitar work in it. And if you bought the EP, well, that's got a lot of rockin' in it for most anyone.

I wonder if you're 100% right in saying they refuse to play some songs because they might be "simple" or "embarassing". I'm not trying to argue with you, mind you, but I'm just wondering if that is, indeed, their thinking. I've gathered from my reading, etc., that it's more of a feel thing. For instance, I heard they struggled quite a bit coming up with the set list for the 30th anniversary tour, but settled on what they went with as a best combination. I heard that some songs were thrown out just because they weren't getting a good vibe playing them, for whatever reason. And, as you know, getting into a song is totally where it's at to produce a good live experience.

I do think it's interesting that they did the same set list for all the shows on that tour. Vapor Trails wasn't that way, of course. I was happy that the Manchester show, which I flew cross-country to go see and which was their last show in North America before heading to Brazil, included "Closer To The Heart"; this was the only stop in NA that had that song and it's a real crowd pleaser. I felt treated that night.

BTW, I sure wish I could hear "Camera Eye" live. I have just recently "discovered" that song for myself ("buried as it were on the not often played second side of Moving Pictures") and I think it's great. I sure don't think it's simple or embarassing. That one probably gets thrown out on account of length. :-)

Take it easy, dude.

Re:Money

[wideBlueSkies]

Hey!

Yeah, it's good to find a Rush fan here. There's a few around...every now and then you'll find someone mentioning something about them.

The thing with Camera Eye is this: We're both right.... Geddy and Alex have both described it as being simple and repetetive, and they feel that if they put it in the setlist they'd lose room for 2 other songs. It's a shame, because it really would be a crowd pleaser. Maybe next time around they need to do a 4 hour set. :)

As far as the embarrasing songs, Geds has said that there are some old songs that they will refuse to play, no matter how much the fans ask for them. I assumed that he meant that he was embarrassed by stuff like Lakeside, Rivendell, Bald and Twilight Zone....which are songs that were asked for pretty consistently on the old geddylee.net... though I could be wrong.

I have to mention that I really enjoyed the acoustic set on the last 2 tours. For a band who Alex describes as being 'definitely plugged in', they do some great acousic. Not that I'm surprised given their level of playing, but it was still very nice to hear.

Peace to ya'.

Re:Money

[wideBlueSkies]

Dude,

Where are you from?

New York City here.

Re:Money

[stuktongue]

I live in Torrance, CA (Los Angeles area). But I was born and lived my first 13 years in Vancouver, Canada. You know, the Great White North.

Good day, eh.

Re:Money

[stuktongue]

Well, I guess I have to admit that Camera Eye is a little repetetive, but it's just got some really nice themes to it.... :-)

I can't see why they'd be embarassed by Lakeside Park; that's a really pretty song, too. Oh, well. The others I can't comment on because I don't know them well enough. I seem to remember "I Think I'm Going Bald" being kind of a joke song, but I'm not sure.

Yeah, the acoustic set was tres cool. I thought it was okay the first time I heard it (Hollywood Bowl), but I absolutely dug it the second time (Irvine Meadows). "Heart Full of Soul" really charged me up and I'm even starting to like "Resist". "Heart Full of Soul" is great on the EP, too. I hope you have and listen to the EP. It's really good listening; much better than you'd think from a cover album. (I think it's funny that a band releases it's only cover album after _30_ years of original music. I guess that's Rush for you.)

Sepatown, my damie.

Re:Money

[bckrispi]

I'd be shocked to see a poll that actually shows a majority of viewers accepting the prequels as "on par" with episodes 4,5,6.

Here's one.

Just cause they made millions of $ doesn't mean they didn't suck.

Please re-read my original post. I never said millions of dollars. I said millions of fans. Big difference.

tv based on brian daley novels?

[welloy]

This could be great. If Lucas et al took something like the brian daley novels (Han Solo at Stars' End, (1979), Han Solo's Revenge (1979) and Han Solo and the Lost Legacy (1982)) --stories that involved the SW characters but not really the plot line of the movies-- and made a bunch of television episodes out of them that could be really interesting. That could give lots of very creative people a great way to flesh out the rest of the SW universe and provide some neat backstory, without worrying too much about stepping on the Canon of SW. How neat would it be to see Lando and Han back in the bad old days smuggling spice or gambling for each other's ship? Or following Biggs through the Academy? Or watching the Empire take over a planet or two?

The problem is of course, most all TV shows and movies produced are crap. And I dont think the SW TV show is any more or less likely to be crappy TV than any other sci-fi/fantasy show.

Re:tv based on brian daley novels?

[dspeyer]

Han Solo at Star's End?

Han: I'm here for the money, and I'm going to get the money.
First Speaker: [looks skepticla]
Han: On second thought, I really just want to be with Leah. Bye!
First Speaker [to novice]: HE'll be a happier man, but he'll never threaten The Plan again.
Novice: Is it always that easy?
First Speaker: Yes

Seems sort of silly, doesn't it?

Really, the power of the Force is nothing compared to the power of psychohistory.

Re:tv based on brian daley novels?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to second that. I'm embarassed to admit I ever read a Star Wars based novel, but the Han Solo trilogy was a lot of fun, obviously inspired Lucas, and would make a much better movie than the Timothy Zahn novels - or the prequels.

Re:tv based on brian daley novels?

[connorbd]

The Zahn novels (and to a lesser extent the Correllian trilogy of Roger McBride Allen) were very well-written books and worthy additions to the world of Star Wars. If you think Zahn sucked, you haven't read the work of uberhack Kevin Anderson.

Re:tv based on brian daley novels?

[welloy]

Yes, i'd agree that the Zahn novels are quite good, but these deal with main plot line stories and probably would not make it into a TV show IF lucas is really making episodes 7-9. Though if lucas could work Thrawn and mara jade in that would be nice.

and i completely agree about Anderson. Some of the worst stuff i ever read.

Re:tv based on brian daley novels?

[magefile]

I'd rather see Zahn's books as TV miniseries. The Thrawn trilogy, and the later duo about the Camaas debacle.

Re:tv based on brian daley novels?

[Anonymous Coward]

Did Asimov have his mother stashed in a closet upstairs?

Re:tv based on brian daley novels?

[Mac Degger]

No. The problem is that Harrison Ford wouldn't be the one playing Han Solo...it would probably be Ben Stiller. Which would suck. Han Solo isn't James Bond; replacing the actor doesn't work for this kind of thing.

Was Mark Muzzled?

[victor_the_cleaner]

What I find strange about this article is that supposedly Mark made these comments on Wednesday of this past week.

On Friday, Mark did two live radio interviews in my market to promote the upcoming DVD releases. In both interviews the host asked about the next trilogy. Although he did not give the same answer word-for-word, he basically said, "I don't know, most of the time the fans know more than I do"

Did Mark say too much on Wednesday and was told to keep his mouth shut?

Re:Was Mark Muzzled?

[Z4rd0Z]

Yeah, and it's all tied in with 9/11. I recommend you keep your mouth shut too.

Re:Was Mark Muzzled?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you listen to the MP3, the comments Mark made about the possibilities of episodes 7 8 and 9 were quoting Lucas from the 1970's when they were making the first Star Wars film. He made a point to joke that he would be in his 70's himself and be an old man by the time they actually got made.

I think you're reading too much into it. Mark was merely bringing up conversations from the past to make a funny point (that the Star Wars series of films has dragged out so damn long).

He also said that he wished his agent (and presumably Lucas) was as enthusiastic about making 7, 8 and 9 as he was - if they were to follow, he could possibly play the role of the aging Luke training and mentoring the next generation of Jedi.

So the reality is that there's probably very little real information about any more Star Wars films. They may or may not be made, but he doesn't know either way.

I was very glad that Mark seemed to see the lighter side of it all - I thought his conversation about Star Wars was very relaxed, lucid and very, very funny in parts - I couldn't help but grin. The sad part is that I now want to see him in Episode 7.. I think he's the most credible and viable asset (beside Harrison Ford) that the old Star Wars series has left. I just want to see Luke grown up and finally moved beyond the stage of whining about everything - Han Solo was a far cooler character and Luke deserves some payoff for the development that his character made over the course of episodes 4 to 6.

"The Jar Jar Years"

[Cumstien]

I heard the TV show was to exclusively feature Jar Jar Binks and his wacky best friend a talking pie.

That ought to jump the shark.

Re:"The Jar Jar Years"

[iroll]

+1 Shark Jump

Where are my mod points? Oh, probably on the keyboard, with the soda that just blew out my nose...

If Lucas has half a brain

[multiplexo]

and can contain his ego he'll option Timothy Zahn's series of Star Wars novels, hire someone else to direct, put his name on it as executive producer and then STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM IT! . The Timothy Zahn novels, along with Alan Dean Foster's Splinter in the Mind's Eye were the best Star Wars novels written. For those of you who haven't read them they are:

Heir to the Empire

Dark Force Rising

The Last Command

There would be problems with the fact that the actors are older than their characters are portrayed in the Zahn books, but hey, George is a wizard with CGI, let's see him do something useful with it instead of creating more characters like Jar-Jar Binks or editing the cantina scene so that Greedo shoots first.

Re:If Lucas has half a brain

[BigKato]

He could just push the timeline back to maybe 15 years ofter ROTJ. That wouldn't be too big a stretch, would it? I can't remember how long after ROTJ the books take place.

Re:If Lucas has half a brain

[Anonymous Coward]

Splinter in the Mind's Eye was fucking stupid. Zahn novels weren't all so great. Jesus maybe Star Wars fans have too low standards - then again I read that crap.

Re:If Lucas has half a brain

[magarity]

Parent post is 100% right; the Zahn novels are excellent. Remember that even though the Emperor died there is still a vast beauracracy and military operating in the imperial mode to run the galaxy. After RotJ there wasn't an instantaneous happy new Republic. For those of you who haven't read them, do so if you want good sci-fi.

Re:If Lucas has half a brain

[Justin205]

Then maybe a little later take a similar approach with the Hand of Thrawn cycle? Those books are set somewhere around 20 years after ROTJ, putting the original actors around the right age.

Re:If Lucas has half a brain

[Anonymous Coward]

ANYTHING is better than Zahn's star wars!

Ah, yes. Like, oh, a L. Ron Hubbard novel ghost-written by Kevin J. Anderson?

Zahn isn't in the 10%, but he's in the upper part of the 90%, and his stories are certainly better than the drek that passes for the script in Episodes I, II, and VI.

Re:If Lucas has half a brain

[dargaud]

The Timothy Zahn novels, along with Alan Dean Foster's Splinter in the Mind's Eye were the best Star Wars novels written

This garbage is the best ?!? Good I didn't read the others then. When reading the first one I was reminded on why I stopped reading fantasy after puberty. As for the 2nd book, it was so dumb and lacking any kind of ideas or plot that I gave up halfway. If a book is exceptional, I keep it; if it's good I give it to my friends. Those 3 ended up in a landfill. Saying it's better than Jar-Jar sums it all up IMO.

Re:If Lucas has half a brain

[nEoN nOoDlE]

But Greedo shoots at the same time now!

Re:If Lucas has half a brain

[Anonymous Coward]

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.

Why hasn't this been modded as TROLL? Calling Splinter in the Mind's Eye anything other than "horrible" is obviously a troll.

For those unfamiliar with this book, this is a children's book that was written after ANH but before ESB. It features Luke and Leia making moon eyes at each other while feeling funny in their pants. Luke shorts out his lightsaber in some water, and Vader gets his arm chopped off.

Seriously, all those books sucked, but Splinter takes the cake.

Re:If Lucas has half a brain

[niktesla]

I agree. And if you L2TFA (listen to the fine audio), what Mark says is basically what has happened over the course of the books, but on a larger scale. Mark says that George's original vision was for Luke to hand his lightsaber down to the next hope ala Obi-wan in A New Hope. In the books, Luke has started an acadamy to train new Jedis - so more than just one new hope in the books. anyhow, thats my $0.02.

Re:If Lucas has half a brain

[Refrag]

George Lucas sucks at CGI. My proof is Episode 1 & 2 and the additional CGI added to Episodes 4-6. Secondary proof (as if anymore is needed) is that he sold what is now Pixar to Steve Jobs.

If he does anything, he should try to do a western.

Re:If Lucas has half a brain

[Forbman]

Now, we just need a look at life from the Empire's side. The president has got big ears and a goofy way of talking. The Emporor is really Dick Cheney. Throw in a Herman Goering-esque Attorney General, and a sneaky villain to look like Wolfsburg lurking in the shadows of a more legitimate-looking Donald Rumsfeld, and we might be close. Throw in the rebel media network (Al Jazheera) that gets the periodic missive from Yoda or Obi-Wan Kenobi [top enemies of the Empire], and frequent press conferences between the Empire's staffers on the talk shows about how they're tracking down and destroying the terrorist training camps, before cutting over to look at the world from Luke's Brownian Motion Jedi Training Carni...er, Camp...

Then, throw in the current election by having some other Empire general who has quite the following, but is a bit of a threat to Darth Yada (yada yada), who gets recalled back to the Death Star 8 (now with DTS and stadium seating!) for an Imperial Senate election... [WWJD = What Will John Kerry...er, Darth Julius, Do?}, and some other group of phantom menaces called "Unit 529 Veterans for Truth" spreading all sorts of misinformation, etc....
(there, I threw in the election)

Probably a little too close to home for some folks with no sense of humor or appreciation for satire, though.

Since no one would want to write a story like this (because the obvious title was taken by another great movie: "A Mighty Wind". Remember the final part of that? "It's blowing me and you!"), because it would just be seen as some other Michael Moore wanna-be movie...

Oh well.

Re:If Lucas has half a brain

[nine-times]

and can contain his ego he'll option Timothy Zahn's series of Star Wars novel

I don't know- I read the Zahn novels when they first came out. I don't remember them completely, but I made it all the way through, so they must have been ok.

However, they weren't great. I mean, not the the level that I would say that, if they were going to make sequels, they should use those plots. The problem with them is, if nothing else, there's nothing about them that makes them essential to the universe.

I know that what I'm saying won't be clear to many people, but they seem more like side-stories. Nice adventures and all, but it they don't really wrap things up with sufficient finality. They don't redefine the characters. If Star Wars was really just a cheesey fantasy adventure story, that'd be good enough, but it's kind of not.

The original trilogy, at least, was mythic. It tracked an appropriate development, hitting essential parts of these character's stories. The story tracks Vadar's simultaneous fall and redemption and Luke's development from a farm-boy kid to a grown, developed adult and warrior. But more than a warrior- almost a buddha or savior.

I think, by now, it's safe to say that the prequals are meant to be about Vadar's simultaneous rised to power and spiritual fall. One of my problems with the prequals is that I don't think they take the mythic aspect seriously enough. So, what I'm saying is, any sequals made should have at least an equally mythic character. While Zahn's novels may have their merit, I just don't think they rise to the right level.

Ah...

[iamdrscience]

I would like to coin a new phrase for Lucas's continued desecration of Star Wars: "Beating a dead tauntaun".

Re:Ah...

[Anonymous Coward]

I would like to coin a new phrase for Lucas's continued desecration of Star Wars: "Beating a dead tauntaun".

It's more about slitting a sweating tauntaun open and make children eat its steaming bowels.

yours sincerely,
Darth Lucas. </ManicalLaughter>

Re:Ah...

[geminidomino]

Seconded!

Re:Ah...

[Cyno01]

sir, i would like to shake your hand

Holy cow

[Eric(b0mb)Dennis]

Holy cow, hopefully they'll make it a reality TV show... I can see it now...

Six strangers live inside the star wars universe (A huge studio in Hollywood) for six months, where they can become a bounty hunter, pod racer, force-user (only for the very gifted!) Smuggler (Please, no real 'spice' or other illegal substances on the set) among many other professions!

Each 'period' consists of a voting day, where each player votes "the most annoying" player off the studio.

The winner recieves royalty rights to the Star Wars franchise after George Lucas has died, but 50% of the profits MUST be used to beautify his burial ground.

Come on...

[wertarbyte]

Georgie needs a new pair of shoes!

JMS?

[Anonymous Coward]

If this is the potentially huge TV series that JMS of Babylon 5 fame is involved in, this could be very interesting. He probably wouldn't even bother with it unless he had a great deal of control (or as much as possible in someone else's sci-fi universe), so I'm keeping my hopes up until he says he's not involved.

Re:JMS?

[jx100]

Funny, I thought JMS was pushing a Star Trek TV show.

A better idea...

[iamdrscience]

I could do without a star wars TV show. I would be much more interested in a show starring "The Star Wars Kid".

The Lucas Problem

[Nom du Keyboard]

The Lucas Problem is that he is considered such a God (or Jedi Master) of science fiction films that no one dares tell him when he's wrong about something. And everybody's wrong some of the time.

I'm certain that is the only reason Jar Jar Binks ever survived being edited out of Episode 1 is that no one would dare say to George, "Uh, George, you may not have realized it, but this character is nothing more than an offensive racial stereotype that will not go down well with anyone."

Re:The Lucas Problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Minor correction: I don't think he's considered a sci-fi god. He's just got a shitload of money. And money talks loudest.

Re:The Lucas Problem

[debrain]

I'm certain that is the only reason Jar Jar Binks ever survived being edited out of Episode 1 is that no one would dare say to George, "Uh, George, you may not have realized it, but this character is nothing more than an offensive racial stereotype that will not go down well with anyone."

I'm sure that in his godliness he is gives less importance to listening, caring, or tolerating such advice. I'm quite certain the man is literate, and if he reads anything besides the Star Wars fansite claptrap, he is surely aware that he is producing films with zero redeemable value and inconsequential longevity.

Or perhaps he as a different ultimate design in mind, for fans: short term milking and long term bilking. I suspect the man must resent the Star Wars universe, perhaps for the same reasons that Alec Guiness did: overshadowing and marginalizing the rest of his career.

Re:The Lucas Problem

[Anonymous Coward]

It's kinda like the Micheal Jackson problem, he's so rich he's in a world of his own. "Uh, Micheal, you shouldn't fuck little kids".

Re:The Lucas Problem

[Anonymous Coward]

The Lucas Problem is that he is considered such a God (or Jedi Master) of science fiction films that no one dares tell him when he's wrong about something

This is a problem of Lucas' own creation. First, he hires a bunch of ass-kissing fanboys to work at "Lucas Ranch" way away from the rest of hollywood. (These are the types that think that the original Star Wars was cool because of BobaFett, not because of the story line.)

Second, he's completely outside the studio system, so there's no non-creative people above him to tell him that his ideas suck. A studio would have never let him release the last 2 movies.

Re:The Lucas Problem

[God! Awful 2]

I'm certain that is the only reason Jar Jar Binks ever survived being edited out of Episode 1 is that no one would dare say to George, "Uh, George, you may not have realized it, but this character is nothing more than an offensive racial stereotype that will not go down well with anyone."

I've seen plenty of 8 year olds whose favorite Star Wars character is Jar Jar Binks. I guess it just goes to show who Lucas considers to be his audience.

-a

Re:The Lucas Problem

[glsunder]

Uh, guess what age 1/2 the people who obsess over star wars were when ep 4 came out. I'd be willing to bet alot of them/us grew up in the 70s and 80s. Jar Jar isn't any worse than the ewoks were. Heck, he's a better actor than the guy who played aniken in ep 2.

Re:The Lucas Problem

[Reziac]

The difference is that Sir Alec Guiness would still have HAD that "rest of his career" without Star Wars, and Lucas more than likely would not have.

Re:The Lucas Problem

[nine-times]

The Lucas Problem is that he is considered such a God (or Jedi Master) of science fiction films that no one dares tell him when he's wrong about something.

I think you're right. A lot of people think that if someone is a good artist, the best thing to do is remove all restraint and let him do as he wants, and you'll get better work. It's just not always the case. Many people who have some level of brilliance need someone to set some limits and reign them in now and then. Artisitic brilliance often comes particularly from the overcoming the obstacles to their vision.

So, in these cases, becoming recognized for their brilliance and becoming a "big shot" is the worst thing that could happen to them.

Re:The Lucas Problem

[Snaller]

I'm certain that is the only reason Jar Jar Binks ever survived being edited out of Episode 1 is that no one would dare say to George, "Uh, George, you may not have realized it, but this character is nothing more than an offensive racial stereotype that will not go down well with anyone."

I'm sure someone said that, and Lucas replied, quite correctly: Only Racists will see him that way.

TV Series

[Anonymous Coward]

I think a TV series *might* be good, as long as (like everyone else says) Lucas isn't involved too much. I mean, look at how many great things have happened to the series without Lucas around.

That said, I would love the series to be either a series of short stories (or short miniseries) focusing on the various time periods. 'Young Han Solo Plays it Safe' one week, another episode featuring Ulic Quel-Droma(sp?) the next, etc. etc.

There's *so much* material to go from, it would be hard to ruin a TV series (knock on wood).

I think Lucas wins by default....

[Chmcginn]

Because future lovers of campy sci-fi will agree than Roddenberry would have come out of retirement to beat Rick Berman into a pile of goo. Therefore, everything after DS9 (which got bad enough as it is... but still, Episode one went past all that) doesn't really count.

The Audio did real well.

[DelawareBoy]

If you like Brian Daley, check out the NPR Audio Series done by Brian. Especially the first one of Star Wars. If the TV series is 1/2 as good as these tapes, It will be worth watching.

I don't know about you all..

[Rytr23]

But I am positively giddy thinking about the possible Jar Jar Binks story lines in a TV show!

Re:I don't know about you all..

[Anonymous Coward]

As am I. It would be the greatest thing to ever appear on TV.

"You killed Jar Jar! You bastards!"

Oh yeah...bring it on.

Its a re-run!

[mmmmmhotpants]

Star Wars TV was better when it was called "Homeboys in Outer Space"

The cash cow has matured, time to milk it!

[t_allardyce]

Well its back, now the special effects can be done cheaply and the whole brand has been re-awoken (not that it was asleep) expect tons and tons of spin-off, more games more cartoons and definately tv shows - startrek/stargate style? we can only hope natalie portman has been signed up, if so, id hit it!

maybe it's porn

[aceh0]

porn is so in right now. since there are so few jedi left it could their adventures in repopulating the jedi population across the galaxy

Re:maybe it's porn

[oogoliegoogolie]

porn is so in right now
When was porn out?

Re:maybe it's porn

[Johnny318]

porn is so in right now
When was porn out?

Porn is both in AND out.

Re:maybe it's porn

[geminidomino]

Porn is both in AND out.

And, if you're really lucky, it's also upside down

Re:maybe it's porn

[toddestan]

porn is so in right now. since there are so few jedi left it could their adventures in repopulating the jedi population across the galaxy

Finally, we'll get to find out just how Anakin Skywalker was concieved!

TV Show... oh boy!

[mercuryresearch]

I wonder if they're bring Bea Aurthur back for this one, too? On the bright side, given how low the bar was set for the Star Wars Christmas Special, we're pretty much assured that anything that's done for TV by George is going to be better. (OK, bright side in the brown dwarf star sense.)

Transcript

[Martin Blank]

I got the file, and aside from a mention that Lucas originally told him that there would be three trilogies, and asking him on the earlier set if he wanted to be in Ep9 (to be made around 2011), there's nothing new in there. It's a lot of talk about what went on behind the scenes in standard studio politics.

I rtfa but...

[blackholepcs]

where exactly did it say that Lucas was "officially confirming" a Star Wars TV series?

Animated Zahn

[qui-bay]

Make an animated series

CGI the ships etc...

Hire as many old & current cast members to do the voices.

One hour long each episode. If they did the Zahn books like this they could have an entire series plotted out and it would be a huge hit.

Also, needs to be an HBO series. With Lucas' stand on not wanting to be influenced by studios, wouldn't it make sense to not want censors or suits influenceing the product? I'm sure HBO does much of the same, but I bet they would steer his old ass into a great product.

its about R2-D2

[Anonymous Coward]

R2 is the only character who is instrumental in every single event in the SW series, original trilogy and the prequels both.

Luke comes & goes, as does Annikin (sp?) & everybody else in the series.

Star Wars is, in effect, a story about a droid.

Re:its about R2-D2

[Anonymous Coward]

Star Wars is, in effect, a story about a droid.

You discount the influence of Campbell/mythology on Lucas.

R2-D2 is the cinematic/literary anchor, the witness, the source of the retelling.

The next time you watch Saving Private Ryan pay more attention to the role of the typing pool.

Re:its about R2-D2

[nine-times]

R2 is the only character who is instrumental in every single event in the SW series, original trilogy and the prequels both. Luke comes & goes, as does Annikin

What do you mean Anakin comes and goes? The first of the prequals introduces him early on, and the 6th movie ends with his death. He's pretty well there.

Interesting that you should mention R2D2, though. Anyone else heard the theory that the story is the rise and fall of Anakin told from the point of view of R2? I mean, the story follows R2 pretty faithfully. He's there for most of the important events, and even Anakin, you don't meet him until right about when R2 does. Unfortunately, I have my doubts that Lucas was very purposeful about this.

Re:its about R2-D2

[tverbeek]

Lucas certainly had it in mind from the beginning to have both Threepio and Artoo present for the entire course of the saga. He just hadn't figured out at first how that would work. That's why he came up with that Anakin-built-Threepio nonsense: it was a contrivance to get each of the two droids into that part of the story.

Episode 8

[respyre]

I can see it now.. :sigh:.. There goes my arm AGAIN

Re:Episode 8

[DarthWiggle]

Episode 8: Spanking the Monkey?

A series could kick out Hollywood stereotypes

[Anonymous Coward]

I would be grateful for a SW series, I love the skyline of its spaceships, planets and cities. It also allows some needed escape from blockbuster mantra's where you must work up to fighting scene, quickly introduce a romance and some happy ending.

Given more time these stories could be more complex and surprising: for example you cannot predict when some couple is meant to come together, they could have a fight and come together much later in the series. Even if Lucas would be in his creative prime the 6th movie cannot be surprising as we all know the ending and the structure of a Hollywood blockbuster. A series would break those restrictions and allows us to enjoy the scenery and storytelling without feeling this need to predict the next scene and comparing it to a childhood experience.

I also don't see the Star Trek doom, those writers are not involved and it's not as if sci-fi became dull in general, Babylon 5 was a story line attention grabber, while Farscape pushed camera angels and movements to new heights. Remember there are great SW stories and the renderfarm will be written off freeing it for SW TV use, effects will not get worse, a SF series without Jar Jar or Rygel with multiple plotlines splitting and converging over weeks with Star Wars scenery on a HDTV will be awesome.
--
Dennis SCP

Inside Scoop; Episodes 7 8 & 9

[Teahouse]

Episode 7 (The Voyage Home): Luke Skywalker (Mark Hamill) is now old and broke. After 2 decades of training new Jedi, he now sits around on Dagoba all day complaining about humidity. One day he is contacted by his geriatric friend Han Solo (now King of a planet called Indiana). He tells Luke that a new Sith named Darth Glukas has developed a time machine and has sent back a droid called THX1138 to kill young Anakin in a time-period called "EPISODE 1". Solo explains that if THX1138 isn't stopped, Anakin and his servant Jar Jar Binks will be killed, thus making Luke cease to exist. After a long and perilous journey (where they encounter humpback whales for some reason) Luke and Solo defeat THX1138, but learn on their return that that was Darth Glukas' plan from the beginning. Now Glukas can create an army made entirely of something he calls "director's cuts" and steal all the money in the universe. This will allow him to buy the entire republic and restore the empire. Luke and SOlo are bummed out as we begin;

EPISODE 8 (Lost in Space); Luke and Solo must defeat Darth Glukas' army of director's cuts, but they have no idea where they are or even WHAT they are, so they begin searching randomly throughout the worlds of the republic. They come across a planet and discover a family of beautiful humans who claim they are called the Robinsons, and their ship is the "Jupiter 2". Although the ship they have looks nothing like the one in the republic database, and the Robinsons are far too pretty and have the vacuous acting talent of bannana slugs, they do point out that they have seen the dark side. They point our geratric twosome in the direction of Darth Dr. Smith, who is Darth Glukas' apprentice. Smith doesn't look human at all, but he does look a helluva lot better than the crappy paint on Darth Maul (and he does have the cool black robe) so our duo fights with Darth Smith and strike him down for questioning. After Darth Smith stops whining about his injury "Oh the pain, the pain!" He tells them Darth Glukas and the directors cuts can be found on a planet called Skywalker Ranch and that Darth Glukas will surely defeat them and buy the entire republic unless our heroes can get more help. Off they go

EPISODE 9 (Finally over); Luke and Solo go to get help. They stop at the planet of Angles, where they find Princess Leah (in tight vinyl) and her band of female jedi (Cameron Diaz, Drew Barrymore, and Lucy Liu). Accompanying them is Leah's Obi Wan (jedi teacher), Obi Wan Morpheus and his assistant Neo. All 8 of them fly to planet Skywalker Ranch and confront Darth Glukas, but alas, Glukas has a suprise for them. He has THREE young apprentice siths working for him. Darth Elrond (Hugo Weaving), Darth Psycho (Crispien Glover), and Darth Bitch (Demi Moore). An epic battle ensues where almost everyone dies while fighting in slow motion with lots of wire fighting and physics-ignoring acrobatics. In the end, Luke and Glukas are the only ones left. Luke tells Glukas he has lost, but Glukas laughs and says "Lost? My boy you have much to learn about the dark side. I have been following your every move throughout this entire epic with hidden cameras. Your every action has been a part of a thing I call reality television, and I have already made my billions on this tripe. All is lost. I now have the money to buy the republic."

It all does seem lost, but then, Luke informs him; "It is you who has lost Glukas, I have known about your treachery all along, and informed the one force in the universe more powerful than you." From the wings enters Obi Wan Schlocky- Ending (Stephen Spielberg) "I thought you might try a "sad" ending Glukas, I have prepared for this moment with a series of horrible sequels of my own. We can't have people believing that any story can end without a happy ending! This is my mission, my destiny." With that, Obi Wan Schlocky-ending pulls out his glowing blue......checkbook and buys the entire Star Wars series, (copyright, and merchandising!) with the money he made from Indiana Jones 4,5,6,7,8,9, and 10 a

Re:Inside Scoop; Episodes 7 8 & 9

[So_Belecta]

The sad thing is that what you just described will probably be better than what they actually come up with (assuming they bother to make it)

Re:Inside Scoop; Episodes 7 8 & 9

[geoswan]

Indiana Jones 4,5,6,7,8,9, and 10 as well as Schindler's list 2,3,and 4 and ET 2-47...

That reminds me... I saw The Passenger, and I saw Passenger 57. But I missed Passengers 2 through 56. Can anyone tell me if they were any good?

Lol.

No, I didn't make this up myself. Someone else did -- years ago. I would cite them if I knew who they were.

Re:Inside Scoop; Episodes 7 8 & 9

[tim_bissell]

You've just reminded me - I saw the

Re:Inside Scoop; Episodes 7 8 & 9

[tim_bissell]

You've just reminded me -

I saw "The taking of Pelham 1 2 3" and missed the first 122
in the franchise ; were they any good?

(Or was it "The Magnificent Seven"? and the first six?

Re:Inside Scoop; Episodes 7 8 & 9

[Jeremy Erwin]

The Madness of King George III was shortened to The Madness of King George for its american release.

Re:Inside Scoop; Episodes 7 8 & 9

[Anonymous Coward]

I saw 2001 but missed the first 2000 ... although I may have caught 10
I saw one million BC but missed the first ...
I saw 5 million years to Earth but ...

Oh, forget it.

Re:Inside Scoop; Episodes 7 8 & 9

[Anonymous Coward]

I need to go play some Legacy of Kain games now... since the series pretty much depends on all that "That was my plan all along" plot skewing.

Um... I didn't mean to say that LOK is anything like Star Wars I just meant... oh... nevermind, I'll just post this as anon. :)

Re:Inside Scoop; Episodes 7 8 & 9

[Anonymous Coward]

It's like the recent slashdot thread on whether to kill off Trek.

Star Wars is so tired that fanfic joke ideas like this are ALSO tired and worn out.

There is really nothing new to contribute to the mix.

Lucas' expansion to the SW universe was wholly anticlimactic. I think the only real reason to see Episode III is for Christopher Lee.

Even if the Obiwan/Anakin duel is handled well it will be impossible to separate out all the previous hours of mediocrity to enjoy it the way we hoped we would thinking about it coming all these years.

Star Trek...

[criordan]

Remember a few years ago when ol' Georgie boy was talking about how he didn't want Star Wars to turn into something like Star Trek?

I'll just leave it at that...

I know what it will be...

[Anonymous Coward]

The "Star Wars TV show" is actually just going to be a Special Edition of the Surreal Life starring all the washed out left overs from the star wars movies: Mark Hamill, Carrie Fisher, Teen bopper Anakin Skywalker, Willow Midget Boy, Admiral Piet, the guy that animated the Taun-tauns, and an blue screen.

re energizing star wars

[neuraloverload]

mel gibson comes on stream and produces the "passion of the skywalker". nuff said.

partial transcript

[Anonymous Coward]

Q: if george decided to do a 7,8,9 - would you do it?

MH: He talked about doing 7,8,9. You know when I first did this, it was four trilogies. 12 movies! And out on the desert there's big time between setups 'cause of whatever, ya know, the robots are... can you imagine robots rolling mechanically- oil on sand in the desert? That's the kind of stuff you don't [inaudible] we should prepare for this, so they're digging out sand and putting planks and moving the cameras so you can't see he's on wood. Lots of free time. And George was talking about this whole... and I'm listening to this thing, cause I said, "Why are you starting at 4,5,6? It's crazy." [imitates Lucas] 'Well, that's the most commercial section of the movie.' I went, "Oh, ok." Yeah, he said that the first one, or the first trilogy's darker and more serious. The impression that I got, he said, [imitates Lucas] "How would you like to be in episode 9?" This is 1976. I said, "When's that gonna be?" Heh. [imitates Lucas] "Like, two thousand, eleven." [laughter]

Re:partial transcript

[Xelrach]

It seems to me that the first trilogy has failed to be dark or serious.

Re:partial transcript

[/dev/trash]

4,5,6 are the most commercial? Um. I think George was beign a little naive.

Did anyone bother reading this post?

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't bro. You just tryin' too hard playa. Just sayin....peace.

It's already on air!

[d474]

The new Star Wars spin-off is already on air. It takes place a long time in the future, in a galaxy very, very far away from the original. It's about a descendent of Luke, and how the "force" is still very much alive in him.

It's called "Joey".

MOD PARENT UP!!!

[frank_adrian314159]

Amen...

Mirror of 5 minute talk here

[Szplug]

comingsoon-hamill-swdvd1.ogg

It's .ogg

Star Wars Episode 7

[cpqarray]

Maybe in episode 7 Luke will discover he has a half brother. And the half brother will take over Luke's ship and lead him, Han Solo, and Dr McCoy to the center of the Galaxy in search of Shakaree the planet God lives on. Oh wait..

What did Mark Hamil say?

[rd_syringe]

I heard Comingsoon's mp3 last night, and I still don't hear where Mark Hamil talks about what the final trilogy is about. At most, he talks about Lucas asking him to do four trilogies back in 1976, back when the plan was still 12 films. Mark Hamil jokes about how these grand sort of thoughts came from all the free time between shots as the effects guys set things up. That's it.

To be fair to Lucas

[rsilvergun]

he always intended to do the prequals. Well, that's not quite true. The original script was too long, so he skipped to the middle. It's not surprising to seem him go back and finish making the rest of the script. Moreover, it's got nothing to do with art. I really think Lucas just wants to make the movies. This is actually a problem. I think he entered into the project without a clear picture of what he wanted to do; and instead just has a bunch of cool ideas that have been floating around in his head for years. It doesn't help that he's listening to his critics lately. The result is the mess that is Eps I & II. Oh well, at least Clone Wars TV rocked.

Re:To be fair to Lucas

[Jeremy Erwin]

George Lucas didn't invent the prequel-- he was imitating the epic style of starting the action "in medias res". Virgil, for instance, devotes the second book of his Aeneid to describing events (the fall of Troy) that predated the narrative in the first book (Juno's storm, and the landing of the Trojan fleet in Africa).

Moreover, Asimov's two prequels predate Lucas's prequels.

Re:To be fair to Lucas

[Mac Degger]

What irked me was that in one interview with Lucas and a couple of other Hollywood heavyweights (I think Copola was there, as well as someone else extremely famous...it looked like an old homes get-together, seriously!), Lucas mentions that he didn't want to direct TPM. But then he said all his (ass-kissing, upsucking) friends told him he could do it, no, he /should/ do it, so he did.

Now maybe I'm reading way to much into this one offhand comment, but something about the way he said it made me think that Lucas knew he wasn't that good a director (eps 5&6 where the best SW, ep 4 was good because it was new, not because the directing was any good), and the only reason he did direct TPM was because his friends convinced him that he should do it anyway.

Re:To be fair to Lucas

[bob beta]

To be fair to George Lucas: He slapped on the 'Episode 4' on The Star Wars movie after it's first theatrical release, when he realized he had something he could milk. Then he wrapped in a bunch of Joseph Campbellesqe hooey-booey to give it a degree of credibilty.

I was there. I saw Star Wars in the theatre when it came out. It didn't have the 'Episode 4' crap. That was revisionist history.

Re:To be fair to Lucas

[Forbman]

Star Wars
Episode IV: A New Republic

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...

It was there at the beginning of the movie. I remember thinking to myself, "huh? whatever..." when I first saw it.

Re:To be fair to Lucas

[danila]

You memory is failing you. It was "A New Hope". The question is - how can we trust your memory now?

Re:To be fair to Lucas

[Reality Master 101]

he always intended to do the prequals.

Nope, absolutely untrue. I was there and remember it vividly. After Star Wars proved so popular, he announced that he was going to make it nine movies, then later changed it to six. It was never the plan to make a trilogy, much less prequels.

Re:To be fair to Lucas

[kalidasa]

Which two Asimov prequels are you talking about? Certainly not the Foundation prequels, which, while released before Episode I, were released long after Lucas had talked about doing Episode I.

Re:To be fair to Lucas

[Jeremy Erwin]

When exactly did lucas talk about "doing episode 1"? IIRC, the hype started in earnest after the 1997 rerelease. Asimov's prequel was published in 1988.

Come to think of, Temple of Doom was a prequel.

Re:To be fair to Lucas

[kalidasa]

Well, I remember reading references to the fact that Star Wars was to be a trilogy of trilogies in I believe 1979. I'd have to dig up the reference, but it was in a large format book about science fiction books, movies, and art that I'm sure was published no later than 1981, and I think before ESB was released. Come to think of it, it's possible that *The Art of Star Wars* had a reference (in the title page of the draft script, maybe?) to the movie being part 4 of "The Journal of the Whills" (or "Journey of the Whills"). Anyway, the 9 movies thing LONG predates 1997. It long predates 1987.

Bring back Lawrence Kasdan!

[Chiisu]

or anyone. Lucas is still too fascinated with technology to tell or direct a decent story. He might have been slightly humbled enough to make some slight changes in the Original Trilogy DVD set, but it's not enough. We need a writer/director with the balls to kill some main characters, introduce real conflict, etc. Not the cute crap we got with RotJ or TPM.

Re:Bring back Lawrence Kasdan!

[ultranova]

We need a writer/director with the balls to kill some main characters, introduce real conflict, etc. Not the cute crap we got with RotJ or TPM.

Um, Yoda, Vader and emperor (and Jabba and Boba Fett) died in RotJ, and Qui-Gon and Maul died in TPM. Obi-Wan (and Tarkin and an entire planet) died in ANH, and Anakin's mother died in AotC.

AFAIK ESB is the only SW movie in which no one important gets killed. And even there, Han's freezing serves to create a similar mood.

How many corpses do you think a single movie should have ?-)

As for conflicts... The whole tri-trilogy is about war. Qui-Gon defies the Jedi Council; Anakin defies Obi-Wan; Darth Vader kills his own underlings constantly; Palpatine engineers a civil war to get power, and later tries to get Luke to kill his own father; Luke and Vader fight, etc.

Star Wars has its problems, but lack of corpses and conflicts aren't among those.

Not the cute crap we got with RotJ or TPM.

Ewoks do seem cute, until you start to really think about the fact that they tried to eat the main characters...

Re:Bring back Lawrence Kasdan!

[geminidomino]

Ewoks do seem cute, until you start to really think about the fact that they tried to eat the main characters...

Notice how Leia was the only one who was going to be spared from that fate? I guess Han's the only one allowed to know what...

...nevermind.

1976!

[rd_syringe]

This isn't really news at all. Mark doesn't say what the next trilogy is about. I'm not sure why it's being reported that way. He just talks about how Lucas asked him to do four trilogies total. This was back in 1976. Mark mentions being in Episode 9 and handing his light sabre off to the new Jedi. Nothing more.

I molested your sister.

[Anonymous Coward]

It was awesome; she was an incredible lay. Don't worry, she enjoyed it, and if she claimed otherwise, she was lying.

commercial film

[rctay]

I know there are a lot of scifi romantics out there, but this was always a commercial product, made with the intent to make money. Do you think Gene Roddenberry pitched Star Trek to the networks to enlighten the human race? It's simple; create it, milk it, kill it when finished. Besides there's little art left in major films anyway. It's all boring effects for the gaming generation. All of the good ideas are already taken. Its a matter of who can retell them better.

Re:I always wanted to do this... ;)[get upto date]

[Norgus]

This method is old hat, if you want to whore karma these days its much more rad and usefull to append .nyud.net:8090/

So a revised way to avoid slashdotting:

http://comingsoon.net.nyud.net:8090/news/topnews.p hp?id=6318

and also:

http://www.theforce.net.nyud.net:8090/holonet/inde x.shtml#24763

conversation was decades ago

[warren69]

Gimme a break. Luke was talking about what he was talking about with George when they were making Star Wars (long time ago, in a galaxy of good movie making... sorry). Anyway... felt the fact of how old the conversation with George was should be more obvious in the slashdot original post.

Text better than voiced words...

[aepervius]

Can't somebody here write up a quick summary of what is said in the MP3 by Hammil ? I dunno for you all, but 1) I can't access the web site in the article summary 2) anyway the MP3 I downloaded from a mirror is so down in quality that as a foreigner which understand only oxford english, it is useless to me.

My kingdom for a quick summary in WRITTEN WORD. Ok maybe not my kingdom but at least my thanks...

Trek did it years ago

[Anonymous Coward]

ST beat them to it years ago while SW was just idling around with nobody touching the property.

Why wasn't a sequel to Spaceballs made?

[taxman_10m]

Anyone know why?

Star Trek the animated series

[chiph]

I predict that "Star Wars: The 4:3 edition" will last only as long as the Star Trek animated series did. If not shorter. Chip H.

The Biggest Threat to Star Wars is..

[darthtrevino]

Fanboys. Seriously, just let Lucas do his thing. Every time ANYTHING is posted about Star Wars, all the posts are of the tone: I'm not buying **** until Lucas releases the original originals without Digital anything, straight from the masters!!!

Honestly, let it go. If you want to complain about the pillaging and raping of a franchise, go complain about Star Trek.

Re:The Biggest Threat to Star Wars is..

[DJCF]

Honestly, let it go. If you want to complain about the pillaging and raping of a franchise, go complain about Star Trek.

Ok. (Commences complaining.)

Re:The Biggest Threat to Star Wars is..

[darthtrevino]

Dude, I'm not even joking. Star wars stories are an invitation to bitching... but then again I'm bitching about the bitching.. So I guess I'm part of the whole bitching system.. Damn bitch..

Don't worry about it

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't be happy or scared. Just wait until it comes out and make your opinion then.

Happy or Scared

[Michael_Burton]

Also confirmed today officially, a Star Wars television show coming in the future. -- I don't know if I should be happy or scared..."

Happy or scared? Let me see if I can help you out. I have here a very old VHS tape of a made-for-TV Star Wars program called The Ewok Adventure. Let me just load that up and take a look...

. . .

Phew! Okay...

I would say, scared. Definitely scared.

No Trek from JMS

[Kelson]

I thought JMS was pushing a Star Trek TV show.

AKA The Rumor That Wouldn't Die.

He pitched an idea earlier this year, but that's all. While he has some projects coming up, Trek isn't involved.

From a recent (Aug. 23) post: "Pending contractual negotiations and formal pickup by the networks involved, I've been offered two different series, so we'll see which goes first. They could both be very cool to work on, but one of them could be insanely successful. I should know more about this situation in late October. (Neither is Trek-related, just to nip any potential rumors in the bud.)" (emphasis added)

The original plan

[Anonymous Coward]

As a young guy growing up during the original trilogy I remember a radio interview shortly after the second film came out. It had been Lucas' intention to have 9 films to start with anyway. His original script writing called for it. At the rate of a movie every 3 years they would have been done by 2001.

So to say the franchise overdid it is preposterous. Its about time the final set makes it to the big screen. Unfortunately along the way, I surmise that Lucas has found himself rewriting the orignal storyline (ex. Return of the Jedi was supposed to be Revenge of the Jedi, etc.--and you an deduce from there what the real story was probably supposed to be).

Just bring back the old magic

[master_p]

I little soap opera, love story, science fiction, heroism and war is enough to make an interesting story. We, as audience, don't give a rat's ass about how the force came to develop, or about the history of Jedi or how Vader came to pass or the politics in a galaxy far away. What we care about is the main protagonists' fates, their characters, their emotions and their relationships. That's what made the original so interesting. It was the heroics of the characters, the love romance between princess Leia and Han Solo, their efforts to free the world that made it so interesting. And it does not have to be complicated or talk about society! all that we want is some good clean space fun and drama! George Lucas, you still have the choice to clean the series up!

What happened to the original trooper clerks?

[Shivetya]

The live action one that came out before all the stupid animated ones?

Can someone give me a pointer?

(seriously off topic) - but I just love them talking it over in the store and all the costumed people that showed up

Yoda: "Afraid, Be Not."

[reporter]

There is no need to fear a television series based Star Wars (tm). The key is to avoid the mistakes of the other sci-fi empire: Star Trek (tm). The major mistake of Star Trek is that the directors hired actors who simply could not act. For example, consider the actors in "Star Trek: Voyager" or "Enterprise". To compensate for this lack of acting talent, the directors fill each episode with sci-fi techno babble.

One thing that "Enterprise" is doing right is to spread each story across 3 episodes. In order to create a thoughtful plot with a moral lesson, the writer really needs the full 3 hours. Ditto for "Star Wars".

Star Wars _is_ sci-fi

[rsilvergun]

What it is not is Science Fiction. If you're going to be nerdy enough to draw the distinction in the first place, please draw the correct one.

Does no one here play videogames?

[JizzMast3rZ3r0]

What if Bioware (the KOTOR developers) wrote the scripts for eps. 7,8, and 9? Hell, I would just like to see KOTOR made into a movie

Re:Does no one here play videogames?

[Anonymous Coward]

shutup meatbag

Re:Does no one here play videogames?

[JizzMast3rZ3r0]

well at least one of you does

"it never really happened" episodes

[rjamestaylor]

The King of "it never really happened" episodes was not Sci-Fi/Fantasy at all, but the TV Soap Dallas with the dream sequence serving to negate the entire previous season and correct some major casting mistakes thereby. (I don't recall the details; I was a kid playing Ultima III while the women in the family watched Dallas dotingly).

Re:"it never really happened" episodes

[Anonymous Coward]

Troll? Wha?

The Pitch

[Poietes]

GL: Thanks for seeing me, Harvey. I've got this great idea for a TV show, and I wanted you to be the first to hear it.

HW: Okay, George, shoot.

GL: Great, okay. Picture this: the camera pans in to the gates of Dathomir Imperial prison, at night, where a crowd has gathered, holding picket lines. They are holding a candlelight vigil, and it is raining: the faces in the crowds are lit up like Japanese lanterns.

HW: Japanese lanterns, nice. Okay, I'm listening.

GL: The gates of the prison open, revealing a hair covered humanoid in a bandolier. It's a wookie.

HW: A wha?

GL: A wookie: but not just any wookie. It's Chewbacca. The crowd has been waiting for him. He begins to speak.

HW: What does he say?

GL: He says: RowRWAROOR.

HW: Uh-huh. Why's he in prison again?

GL: He was imprisoned for a crime he didn't commit. And now he's out to right the wrong: one wookie against the world who wronged him. On his planet, Kashyyyk, there's a special breed of justice. Eighteen thrusters of justice.

HW: Keep going.

GL: Cut to the forests of Endor. Our hero, Chewbacca touches down on the Endor moon, and enters a tree-top Ewok village. He is crowned king of the Ewoks! The Ewoks party hard, getting drunk on tree-root ale and rubbing up against tree-bark until the static electricity sends them flying across the clearing. He speaks to the crowd of drunk of drunk Ewoks.

HW: What does he say?

GL: He says: RowRWAROOR.

HW: I like it.

GL: Shmi, after giving her son Anakin away to Jedi training, starts going a bit wild and gets a name for herself on Tatooine. She started hanging out with wookies, and ended up going steady with Chewbacca's grandfather. Cut to a Christmas dinner scene, where Shmi and Chewbacca Snr. are meeting Shmi's parents for the first time.

HW: Sort of Guess Who's Coming To Dinner meets My Stepmother Is An Alien?

GL: Exactly. So, can I have some money?

HW: Sure, take these two big bags of money and make your show.

GL: Woohoo!

Possibilities for Star Wars TV show

[AndyChrist]

The Adventures of Jar Jar Binks - Jar Jar Binks travels the galaxy fighting crime with his dumb luck.

Ewok Rock - a musical show, like "Cop Rock"
The theme song during the credits would be some variation on "Yubba Nubba Cubba Chubba."

Tatooine Idol - Jabba the Hutt hosts a talent search for who will be the next band at Jabba's Palace.

Young Anakin Skywalker Chronicles - Starring Jake Lloyd.

Young Luke Skywalker Chronicles - Starring Jake Lloyd.

Lucasfilm Investigates: Unsolved Mysteries - Premier episode: Did Greedo REALLY shoot first?

Boba Fett: Bounty Hunter - Boba Fett bounty hunts for Jabba Hutt to finance his 'Vette.

And so on.

Re:Possibilities for Star Wars TV show

[buckeyeguy]

and so on:

Trading Outer Spaces - when the decorators try to spruce up the Death Star with a little color and a few throw pillows, hilarity ensues!

Survivor: Tatooine - where being voted off the planet is more of a prize than anything else.

Monster Speeder Garage - if two engines are good, 8 must be awesome.

and so on...

A Question

[metalhed77]

I know nothing of this at all. But it would seem to the casual observer that sci-fi should be a sub-genre of fantasy. Quite simply, where's the science in a fantasy tale about elves and faeries etc.?

I'm of the belief that if it isn't this way allready it damn well should be for sanity's sake.

Re:A Question

[Planesdragon]

Quite simply, where's the science in a fantasy tale about elves and faeries etc.?

Call SciFi the worst named genre ever. Well, aside from Horror which doesn't really scare anyone, or Romance which is less about love and more--well, let's just say lovemaking.

If you walk into a large bookstore and ask where "Lord of the Rings" is filed, they'll look under either "fantasy" or "science fiction." If you actually go over to the section, you'll find that they're eihter right next to each other or entirely intermingled.

I'm disappointed

[DarkMantle]

all this talk about Sci-Fi, and everyone seems to be panicing.... remember....

"DON'T PANIC... and be a good frood and tell me where your towel is"

If you don't get the above statement go here NOW and get this book.

Transcript

[Antony-Kyre]

http://www.iesb.net/movies/movie90904.htm

Re:Yoda: "Afraid, Be Not."

[Anonymous Coward]

The major mistake of Star Trek is that the directors hired actors who simply could not act.
Not true. Even good actors suck on TV, the medium is not conducive to thoughtful, nuanced acting. The problem with the TV franchise is that none of the shows after the original series not real chemistry between the characters. They were all lumps - attractive lumps in the case of seven of nine but lumps none the less. A Star Wars TV show could work but it would have to feature characters we actually care about. I think Lucas has shown that he is no longer capable of that. He needs to turn the series over to someone else. I suggest Kevin Smith.

Anonomous coward

[Teahouse]

Care to state your name, I did.

Holiday Special

[Deanasc]

A quick cursory search shows that nobody has mentioned the "Star Wars Holiday Special" yet. I mean, come on. Doesn't anyone remember what happened the last time Georgey Boy thought TV would be a good idea. OK I admit I didn't watch Ewoks or Droids.

Starwars Indecision Syndrom

[Mulletproof]

"I don't know if I should be happy or scared..."

You've only been living with this uncertainty concerning the series for the last 15 years. We'd think you'd be used to it by now... Personally, it's become a dull, annoying throbe as of late, but that's just me.

Schlock Wars: The Plasmagun Menace

[Anonymous Coward]

Can't we just use all that money for good and make film versions for Schlock Mercenary comic strip?

What I want to know is...

[Forbman]

...when will "Corvette Summer II" come out? Any offers yet, Mark?

Direct Link to MP3

[BobSutan]

Heres a direct link to the MP3 of Mark Hamill's comments.

No new episodes...

[Anonymous Coward]

In other news, Lucas just said at the Deauville film festval: "I want to go back to less commercial movies and to explore themes I cheriched a long time ago" said Lucas, while insisting on the fact that there won't be any episodes 7, 8 et 9 of "Star Wars".

(translation is mine)

Just a point...

[Cyno01]

Asimovs robot and foundation novels took place in the same universe. In the latter foundation books they went back to solaria and eventually earth.

Re:SW v ST - Enterprise E

[Nom du Keyboard]

The Enterprise D

Aren't we up to E at least?

What the devil are you talking about.

[rsilvergun]

People are constantly telling him what they think is wrong. That's why we get Greedo shooting first. That's why the Ewok song gets cut (yes, I liked the Ewok song. It's a God damn childrens' movie people). Watch the commentary on Ep2. People bitched left and right about Yoda kicking ass. Did it rock? Yes, I think that it did. Lucas sucks most when he listens to his critics.

This isn't to say Lucas is some genious who ought to be left along to create. For God's sake, somebody should have pointed out that if Ep 1 was going to be a childrens' movie, Ep 2 damn well better be. And how the hell did Natile Portman get hired? Anyway, both movies seem to me more like a bunch of cool ideas with a script hung on them than the other way around. But I think the worst stuff (mitochondrians and virgin births) where crappy reponses to critics.

As for Jar-Jar, I think he was something the Special Effects guys really wanted to do. A completely CG character who was also totally believable. It's really quite a feat, it's just a pity the accomplishment is overshadowed by how god damned annoying he his. Like I said, lots of cool ideas, no solid foundation to hang 'em on.

Re:What the devil are you talking about.

[16K Ram Pack]

That's exactly the problem, and whenever I hear a director or producer pushing the tech, you know they've lost the point.

It's all about the script, characters and dialogue. Design really helps, but no-one will care if the story and characters aren't there. No-one really cares what happens to anyone in EP1 and EP2.

Happy or scared?

[alien_blueprint]

I don't know if I should be happy or scared...

You saw Episode I, and Episode II, the Ewoks in Return of the Jedi, the "special" editions, and you've heard how the DVD version of the OT is going to be even more "special," right? You have to ask this question?

Naa,

[Snaller]

If they are going to do a StarWars reality series, it should obviously be The Amazing Race.

"And the roadblock is: Get a tooth from a sarlac"

Doubtful, IMHO

[petrus4]

The comparitively weak storylines (IMHO anywayz) were the main thing that's always bothered me about Star Wars. I know I'll probably get flamed into oblivion for this, but I thought the storyline of at least the first three movies was probably more generic than any science fiction novel I've read. There of course was a storyline in a broad sense, but to me SW was always a lot more about action than storytelling.

Given that, I find it extremely doubtful that the central premises of either series of films could carry an episodic television series, especially given that episodic TV has by necessity a much smaller budget, which would in turn mean a lower special effects/action quotient than the films. If they based it on prewritten material from other formats (either the novels or the comics, for instance) it *might* work, since comics themselves aren't always as much oriented towards mindless action as some of us would believe.

If you want really good sci fi, read a book. That's probably even truer now than it ever has been, and it was always true in the case of Star Wars.

Oh man....

[jotaeleemeese]

Please tell us you are a comedian! Otherwise your talents are being sadly squandered.

I prefer this...

[mbennis]

Beating a dead JAR-JAR..

::sob::

[g07h_g33k]

Thank you in advance, Mr. Lucas, for once again raping my childhood.

Re:SW v ST - Enterprise E

[kalidasa]

Having watched "Enterprise", I have to say we're now up to "Enterprise F&*%" . . . . . . . . . .

Sheesh!

[The Fink]

Damn, I wish I had mod points ;)

The original plan (FWIW)

[Zoxed]

(I am not a big Star Wars follower so the following may be well known)

FWIW I remember an interview with George Lucas before the *original* Star Wars was released (#4) and he said then that his plan was to make 13 feature films for Star Wars so the one day you could go to the cinema and wtach them all back-to-back.