Slashdot Mirror
UK High Court Orders ISPs to Identify File-sharers
securitas writes "The BBC reports that the British High Court has ordered Internet service providers (ISPs) to divulge the identities of 28 customers accused of music file-sharing to the British Phonographic Industry (BPI), the UK equivalent of the RIAA. The court order issued by Mr Justice Blackburne is a big victory for the BPI and its umbrella oranization, International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI), especially after recent setbacks in Canada (CRIA) and the USA. Blackburne is quoted as saying, 'On the face of it this appears to be a powerful case of copyright infringement.' The ISPs have 14 days to comply with the court order. More coverage at the Guardian/Reuters and the Register."
when push comes to shove, will it turn out this way here too? This really changes things if ISPs are going to have to police their users. This should cause ISP rates to go up as well, which is bad for everyone.
CB$#@*(
free ipod and free gmail!
For a moment i thought it was the British Pornographic Industry. If the porn industry starts suing people internet would be obselete for me. :(
"Where all men think alike, no one thinks very much." -Walter Lippmann
These 28 customers accused of music file-sharing are from North Korea. Then what are you going to do?
There go all the Benny Hill rips from Emule!
I'm glad we're allowed to improve our cultural knowledge base here in Canada. ;) Time to go download some more songs.
in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni
Is the new age of file-swapping enforcement a lottery now? Not long until file-traders must obtain draft cards".
PRINT "Signature line broken."
GOTO 1
You know what, you can spare all of your music should be free hippy bullshit, if these were the 14 biggest file sharers out of a population of fifty million plus British internet users, then so be it. It's not like anybody can say that they didn't know it was illegal, that they didn't know they were violating international copyright laws.
Why don't the ISP's just dump all their usage logs to /dev/null ? For the sake of customer privacy.
Can't really expect the ISP's to come up with data that they don't have, can you!?
Meh.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
When I signed up for my 512 kb/s ADSL in Kuwait, I asked the ISP salesman specifically if I might have any problems with file sharing.
He said it's perfectly fine with the compnay policies, and even suggested a few P2P clients that he liked!
It seems to me that keeping detailed logs of your users is just a big legal headache.
One of my clients was once interested in installing detailed internet monitoring and logging (so as to see who is wasting time on the web). They lost interest rapidly when I pointed out that they could be compelled to provide it in court should someone sue.
SurfControl and the other Big Brother ware makers never include that in the copy.
Here's what I'd do: You need to keep certain logs so you can know if there is an intrusion, DoS, etc, but program your logs to automatically erase every week. That means that there will never be more than THE CURRENT WEEK's worth of data that could be subpoened.
Of course, I'm sure if ISP's start doing THAT the RIAA will just get Congress to pass laws that make us all retain ALL logs for all time...
Corporatism != Free Market
"They are uploading music on a massive scale, effectively stealing the livelihoods of thousands of artists and the people who invest in them."
Yet they chose Brittany Spears to be the front-person for the anti-pirating campaign. How about paying some of those starving artists to play frontman instead?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
If you have an open WAN for anonymous people to connect to the internet over, can the owner of the router (and ISP connection) be held responsible for sharing files over said connection?
Compared to the next step, I mean. How do you identify filesharers when they do it secretly and not via some dumbass gnutella/fasttrack/etc that lets everyone in the world know exactly what you're doing?
Well, you don't. You just suspect everyone whose traffic stats look abnormal. Sure, the hell will freeze before ISPs are going to provide this data for free. So what happens? A new law...
Cue the +5 Funny jokes about the British Pornographic Industry!
The ISPs have 14 days to comply with the court order.
Apparently the courts in Europe know how to set deadlines, unlike the US Courts.
seems that Cananda is the only country to have the sense to tell the music industry to shove it...
upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
...I read:
"...the British Pornographic Industry (BPI), the UK equivalent of the RIAA."
Dyslexia can be funny.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
I'm still of the opinion that criminalising your audience is a very dangerous game for the record labels to be getting involved in. And also extremely sad and backwards. I think Steve Job's comment that he treats downloading tracks as his biggest competitor to iTunes Music Store.
In any case, it will further push the record labels one step further away from any claim to believe in the importance of music for music's sake and hopefully open up the eyes of fans to the sheer amount of manipulation these guys now have in terms of creating pre-planned acts, factory stamped songs and shallow, empty and talentless indivduals who want fame more than anything else.
It will be extremely interesting to see how the music press in the UK react - most of them are in the pay of the music business anyway except a few genuine exceptions, Void Magazine for one...
Also I really hope that this will provide more impetus to people experimenting with the copyleft music scene...
---- The Open Source Record Label : : LOCARECORDS.COM
...if I got fingered I'd just use the "some trojan installed a proxy on my machine" defence. My ISP has a policy of only keeping logs for 14 days so the BPI could prove jack shit.
The "starving artist" is a myth, at least among those owned by the RIAA. Sure, Lars Ulrich and the like cry the blues enough, but the only true "starving artists" are either unsigned, or affiliated with independent labels.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
First they need to find one of those 'starving artists' who are happy that they have signed over their rights to the songs they have written or performed over to the local equivalent of the RIAA. Or at least happy enough about the deal that they will play the front man for the local anti-pirating campaign.
Nope, I don't think they will find many either.
-Rusty
You never know...
Anyone have the full disposition ? What IP addresses are the BPI asking to divulge the identity of ?
Not that I'm worried or anything.
Stop issuing orders and pass the spliff already, won't ya?
Letter
Why doesn't everyone put up files named Madonna_Like_a_Virgin.mp3 or Britney_Spears_Takes_it_Reel_Good.mp3 filled with random data? A few hundred thousand of those on the peers should give the BPI a headache.
You could plead you innocence quite legitimately.
They would then have to copyright file names....
Stick Men
Check out the name of the judge: Mr [i]Justice[/i] Blackburne.
Visit www.doc2pdf.net for a free, no need to register,
"The recording industry may not agree, but the U.S. Supreme Court thinks personal privacy is far more important that music piracy," Red Herring reported. "On Tuesday, the high court refused to entertain an appeal of a unanimous 2003 decision by the District of Columbia Court of Appeals that held that copyright holders cannot force Internet providers to identify file sharers using a mere subpoena.
Industry watchers see this as yet another blow that the recording industry has taken in its fight against online file sharing -- a fight it is slowly losing. The lawsuits in question were between New York's Verizon Internet Services and the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA), headquartered in Washington, D.C."
From instapundit.com 5 minutes ago, of course. :)
In the US, the ACLU would be screaming bloddy murder, and lawyers would be flocking over this like vultures over a rotting elephant.
Any relation to Britney Spears? Maybe a less well off relative perhaps?
We could declare Star Craft war... but I have to warn you, Koreans are hard to beat.
Live forever, or die trying.
thats liek saying well if pots legals lets all smoke pot then they will never catch us. No they will just pick a select few give them the maximum sentence until everybody get a clue. you should be responcible for your own network. so if you open your WAN then your responcible for its content. Suppose instead of mp3's these turned out to be pedofile material. I guess it would be ok then. laws are in place to protect society, not just yoru society but everyone.
Judges in Britain are called Mr Justice $surname. Just like Dukes are His Grace $fullname etc.
Phil
I guess today is a passable day to die.
Uh, has anyone caught that the filing was done by a Mr Justice Blackbourne?
So, if he is a judge, then justice is being sought by Justice Justice?
Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
here is the kind of email you can receive from a copyright holder. > Re: Unauthorized Use of Twentieth Century FOX Film Corporation Property - ALIEN VS. PREDATOR > > > Notice ID:###### > Notice Date:# Oct 2004 ##:##:## GMT > Case ID: ####### > > > Dear Sir or Madam: > > TWENTIETH CENTURY FOX FILM CORPORATION and its affiliated companies (collectively, "FOX") are the exclusive owners of copyrights in motion pictures, including ALIEN VS. PREDATOR. > > It has come to our attention that ADSL is the service provider for the IP address listed below, from which unauthorized copying and distribution (downloading, uploading, file serving, file "swapping" or other similar activities) of FOX'S property is taking place. The documentation included at the end of this notice specifies the location of the infringement. We believe that the Internet access of the user engaging in this infringement is provided by ADSL or a downstream service provider who purchases this connectivity from ADSL. > > This unauthorized copying and distribution constitutes copyright infringement under applicable national laws and international treaties. Although various legal and equitable remedies may be available to FOX as a result of such infringement, FOX believes that the entire Internet community benefits when these matters are resolved cooperatively. We urge you to take immediate action to effect removal of the detected infringement listed in the attached report, including: > > (1) Notify the account holder of this infringement > (2) Request the account holder remove the infringing material > (3) Disable access to the infringing material > (4) Take appropriate action against the account holder under your Abuse Policy/Terms of Service > > We appreciate your efforts toward this common goal. Please send us a prompt response indicating the actions you have taken to resolve this matter. Please reference the above noted Notice ID and Case ID in the subject line of all email correspondence. > > The undersigned has a good faith belief that use of FOX's property in the manner described herein is not authorized by FOX, its agents or the law. Also, we hereby state, under penalty of perjury, under the laws of the State of California and under the laws of the United States, that the information in this notification is accurate and that the undersigned is authorized to act on behalf of FOX with respect to this matter. > > Please be advised that this letter is not and is not intended to be a complete statement of the facts or law as they may pertain to this matter or of FOX's positions, rights or remedies, legal or equitable, all of which are specifically reserved. > > Please contact us at the above listed address or by replying to this email should you have any questions. Also note that this infringement notice contains an XML tag that can be used to automate the processing of this data. If you would like more information on how to use this tag, please do not hesitate to contact BayTSP. > > > Very truly yours, > > Sarah Bergman > Compliance Manager > BayTSP, Inc. > PO Box 1314 > Los Gatos, CA 95031 > > v: 408-341-2300 > f: 408-341-2399 notice that the real crime is to watch alien vs predator :D
5m are of course a hacker army from North Korea, with 12m in the Chinese Hacker army and 4 from France.
An Eye for an Eye will make the whole world blind - Gandhi
How long before they start black listing certain websites, or stop you from viewing "dangerous" materials? How long before your privacy is completely invaded, the "dangerous" materials now include useful information that _companies_ would rather you not see, etc.?
Evil companies have used sender spoofing to do SPAM. Fortunately, they can't do IP spoofing.
However... file sharers MIGHT be able to do it. What will happen when they start using IP-spoofing methods to transmit copyrighted data? Are the authorities prepared for this?
This is actually a true representation of the UK, and its place in Europe.
-A different AC.
"I'm ahsamed to evan live her anymore"
I'm sure that part is mutual.
Sounds like the perfect system for an old liner printer and a portable storage unit that trucks can drop off anywhere. Make people think twice before they harras you for logs again.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I thought only Bush wanted to take away freedoms and civil liberties, not the enlightened, peaceful Europeans. Just goes to show that the "Bush is worse than Hitler", anti-Patriot Act, war protesting Euro-trash aren't more free than us Americans after all. :)
Umm, the parent poster may not have put this as delicately as he could have, but he has a very legitimate point. One of the main reasons the Bush supporters are sobering up is because world opinion of Bush is so low. He is largely viewed as an irresponsible, arrogant, self-assured jackass who had no business being elected in the first place. John Ashcroft is a direct result of Bush's presidency, and it's been Ashcroft(and other republican leadship, i.e. Orin Hatch) who's spearheaded the campaign to squash consumer rights.
What's even more scary is that 40-60% of the over 250 million americans are considering reelecting Bush in November. If european leadership continues to follow suit with the US by sacrificing individual rights and freedoms in order to increase profits for large corporations, what kind of message is that going to send to us? That it's ok to do these things?
Many of us in the US need the rest of the world to stand up against this kind of tyranny. Please don't just roll over and say 'it must be okay because america is doing it'. It's not ok, and many of the more civilized european countries need to do thier part to make clear that people should come before greedy corporations.
The government has a defect: it's potentially democratic. Corporations have no defect: they're pure tyrannies. -Chomsky
I used to be a customer of these people. Now I don't see any reason to buy any of their products- it's just funding terror tactics against normal people.
kin242.net
You made a slight typographic error - subject line gives a substitution to fix it.
The fact is, if you use THEIR bandwidth to illegaly 'share' copyrighted material, you can and should be turned in.
Since the network is THEIRS, you have NO right to violate the law with THEIR network. THEY have every right to tell the AUTHORITIES who was using what IP at which time, so the THEIVES can be confronted.
Arguing about your right to privacy is not a valid stance. If you are compliant with the law, the law does not ask about you, nor do they look for you. Violate the law by 'sharing' copyrighted materials, and you can expect the law to ask who you are. At no time is the law abiding person in danger of a privacy breach.
Travel down a street, and you will be 'scanned' by radar or laser to see if you are in the lawful speed limit. Those in violation are pulled over, those that follow the law, are left alone, but all are 'scanned'.
By using the ISP's service you agreed to follow the law, their rules, and agreed to having your identity turned over to the authorities should you use THEIR service ILLEGALY, and they can tell by a simple SCAN, which violates nobody's privacy. The ISP is there to provide a service within the law, and they are protecting themselves, and ensuring the quality of service to the LAW ABIDING users by turning in those that are VIOLATING the law.
For those that think 'sharing' their ripped songs, files, and appz, is their 'RIGHT". Think again. You have no RIGHT to share those things if the agreement is that you will NOT. Read the label, EULA, AUP, and any other policy attached to the product. If you violate the terms, you forfeit any recource. Breach the agreement and you forfeit your rights within the 'contract' and the other party can seek remedy for your transgression.
Have you noticed how all judges in the UK seem to have the first name Justice? Must be some sort of ordained-from-birth thing.
PocketGamer.org - For the gamer on the go!
No wonder we kicked them out.
You are about to give someone a piece of your mind, something which you can ill afford...
I start getting sick of this kind of comparisons. :
Each time one talks about this, someone needs to mention pedofiles. This is not the issue at all. Wether you like pedofiles or wether you think the should be killed at sight is not the question. (yep , maybe I have children and would prefer the latter)
The real issue is
if you make anyone responsible for just forwarding contents then any isp or telco is responsable. Law enforcement should at least be equal to anyone. It's not because you're a big compagny that your excused and because you are an individual that you are to be responsable.
red
red.
At least it's not Judge Dredd
Stop all this lawsuit garbage once and for all.
At least until they make it a crime to use a P2P network for ANY reason. " assumed guilt".
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Guess I'll just have to leech instead then.
fortune -o
You assume, of course, that the majority of the world cares about Bush?
rgds
As an eurpean I've to admit that once again the US beats us. Never the less, I can think of at least 50 reasons why I would never move to the US (with social security and basic respect for human rights at the top of my list) But here in europe most people frankly don't care aout the illusion of freedom which is held high by the US.
.
Mostly everywhere, anyone is willing to trade the offering of "highest offenders" to keep the complainers happy. (Lets say like you guys traded false freedom for false security)
Court decions are irrelavent if they don't comply with field experience. Courts and politic's change much more than real life. They result in lots of emotions but in very few net results. At this point people have really discovered the power of sharing info without physical boundaries. The contents of the info is not relavant. Whatever corporation gets hurt doesn't matter to people.
Having publicly know that ISP's continuesly share info with goverments and corporations is the biggest message here. It will only push people to be aware of the importance of encryption and anonymity. End to end encryption and security is the only way to go
that said : iojpqwdokl ojpqwkl awok sda opikdq wd
red.
Definitly not $140.000 (or what was it) per song as in the US.
I actually agree with releasing their IDs. They knew it was illegal, and law enforcement can't work if people cannot be identified.
Would agree with the DMV not releasing IDs in order to identify hit-and-"runners" when the license plate is known?
I do not agree, however, to the same practise in the US, as the threats and trials by the RIAA that follow hardly seem fair, and all *victims* have to settle, because they face life-ling bankruptcy!
You're seeing this land-grab everywhere because of the economic rewards that are salivated over by the Big Content firms. And the corporate tail wags the nation-state dog in many places besides the US.
Get your teeth into a small slice: the cake of liberty
As recent surveys have shown, 80% of internet traffic nowadays is copyrighted stuff. If ISPs stop that, they will lose like 80% of their customers and go bankrupt.
The internet industry totally depends on filesharing. It's time to acknowledge that, not fight it.
I like Tony Blair. I have enjoyed watching him on "Questions for the Prime Minister" each Wednesday, when it it shown in my country. I mean, it's hilarious. It's like a comedy hour for me; I get a tremendous laugh out of it all. I think he does an outstanding job for the camera.
;)
*sigh*
But it's stuff like this that tells me he needs to head out. He's done his time, and he's done some tremendous things under arduous circumstances. Mr. Churchill did some oustanding things under some fairly arduous circumstances.
Thank you, Mr. Blair. I sure do appreciate everything you have done. I think you did the right things at the right time to do them. But it's time for us to address the next generation and time-frame.
And besides. You can make more money in the private sector, just going around lecturing.
I've done this several times. I go over a friends house, with two other interested people. We all have Macintosh computers. We all have Firewire Drives. At around 1 in the afternoon we start drinkin' ourselves stupid and plugging our drives into each other's laptops or desktop (depending). Then we go through the drive, copying files over to our own drive as we see fit.
Net result?
I have 85 gigs of music on my 120 gig drive.
Now, it's much more "site specific" - I'm not "open to the public" but I know my friends have remarkable taste in music and we get to recommend music to each other.
If I like something, I go to the record store AND I BUY THE CD. (sometimes I buy it used, sometimes new, depending on how I feel and the depth of my pocket and the obscurity of the music)
Why? It's not because I'm feeling guilty - I just know that the CD will likely outlast the hard drive, and it's just good sound back up policy.
Of course, to rip all my CDs over would take a few months of dedicated part time effort, but that's fine. It's still good to have the back up, JIC.
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
Definition of stolen according to dictionary.com:
1. To take (the property of another) without right or permission.
I had permission as the other person decided to share it.
2. To get or effect surreptitiously or artfully: steal a kiss; stole the ball from an opponent.
It was a slow download.
3. To move, carry, or place surreptitiously.
It was still a slow download from his machine to mine.
4. To draw attention unexpectedly in (an entertainment), especially by being the outstanding performer: The magician's assistant stole the show with her comic antics.
No one else saw it and my download wasn't unexpected.
5. Baseball. To advance safely to (another base) during the delivery of a pitch, without the aid of a base hit, walk, passed ball, or wild pitch.
It had nothing to do with baseball.
Ok then I guess my mp3's aren't stolen.
It's hard to steal something that someone else gives you for free - if they were the ones who bought it originally or not.
Dear mr scumsucker aka BPI I would be happy to identify the filesharer at this address, unfortunately I am unable to find any shared files, having just had to reinstall/reformat windows ...again! (see.. windows is usefull for some things) please give me more information as to which PC contains the files I have three wireless pc's connected on an unsecured wireless NAT'ed network with cloned MAC addreses so I am unable find any guilty party ... ( i.e. please prove these allegations or F**k off)
yours mr file monkey
Its essentially the same defence as the ... prove Who was driving defence for speeding, Don't pay these extorionists
AC for obvious reasons!
...is that I believe I would be perfectly capable of framing 50%+ of the population so bad, they'd never be able to make that defense. Crack their box, download a bunch of stuff to their box, then secure their box. Like it or not, it's not finding it that is hard, it is not getting caught. As long as you're using his IP you can go on P2P and whereever and downloading everything "suspect". It will simply add fuel to the fire.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
There is nothing wrong with things like this. If you steal from a shop then they have the right to know who you are. But at the same time how are the record companies going to proove that the user is legit and not just a vendetta against a user.
Plus its been proven that in the UK the record sales are UP rather than down. (thanks to the 40+ record buing growth sector).
>Dyslexia can be funny.
But not if you're a sufferer, presumably?
Anyway:
Did you hear about the dyslexic devil worshipper?
He sold his soul to Santa.
I thank you... I'm here all week...
.
They will never know the simple pleasure of a monkey knife fight
You prove it, and I'll acknowledge it. Very few people I know spend much, if any, time ripping illegal content. Most of us surf the web, read our e-mail, sometimes use Usenet, IRC or IM apps, or play on-line games, none of which relies on the type of filesharing you're describing.
Incidentally, if you think about it, a lot more than 80% of the content transferred over the Internet is probably covered by someone's copyright. The important question is whether that person says it's OK for you to copy it anyway.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
They're not "criminalising the audience", they're identifying the major uploaders. These are the people we've been saying to go after all the time! These people are criminals, knowingly breaking the law and aiding others in doing the same!
Why is it that when the music industry does the right thing -- it's going after the people who are ripping illegally, not the ISPs, and it's doing it through the courts -- half of Slashdot still complains that they're greedy, money-grabbing, yada yada...?
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Protecting civil liberties is extremely important.
the future content of p2p networks will be information in general, and not so much about software, music or movies.
we nerds need a safe and reliable haven that grants our freedom of speech.
be sure to check out the following discussion:
http://www.slyck.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7539
Phonographic. Not pornographic.
Ditto. Thinking the grass is greener on the other side is almost as bad as being delusional about one's own country. The only way a government would stop another government is if it gives them the opportunity to kill someone.
I am NOT a number! I am a - oh wait, I'm number 761710. Look! 761710!
ot Act, war protesting Euro-trash aren't more free than blah blah blah...
Nice to see the people supporting the Patriot Act aren't a bunch of flaming racist Nazis.
I am NOT a number! I am a - oh wait, I'm number 761710. Look! 761710!