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Ubuntu For PPC, And As A Live CD
Jeff writes "Ubuntu is just sweet. For Mac users it is even sweeter, as you can read in this review: it supports hardware like a charm ad now with a live CD out everyone can taste ... sorry, test it." And
Chris writes "Gnoppix 0.8.1 now appears to be Ubuntu Linux based. At OSDir, we've got over 50 screenshots of the Gnoppix 0.8.1 release, including the controversial Ubuntu desktop background images." (See this earlier story; the default background images have been changed in Ubuntu proper, so the "controversy" need not keep you up nights.) The Gnoppix version is a very nice Gnome-based live CD, with fewer apps but more polish than most live CDs I've tried. (Note that this is not the same as the official Ubuntu CD, and that the PPC version is not a live CD.)
Why does everyone love Ubuntu? It seems like it's how slackware was in the mid 90s. it's the 3133+ distro.
err... anyone got a link to the controversial theme so we can see what all the fuss was about?
I tried Ubuntu, It is good as a desktop and the apt-get works like a charm over the firewall/proxy at my comapny. It did not have any of the IDEs or XEmacs by default. So back to FC2, but the up2date does not work over the fireall/proxy :-(.
After having played around with it for quite some time now I have to say that Ubuntu is really a great distribution.
It's really solid though it is only in it's first release now, the desktop is really well thought out, the package selection makes sense and doesn't overwhelm new users but you still can use thousands and thousands of debian packages if you are so inclined.
This distro for me really strikes the right balance between ease of use on the one hand and not taking away the power and choice of linux on the other hand.
All in all I'm really impressed and even now looking forward to the next release. And this is coming from someone who normally uses KDE and Gentoo, so if you impress someone like me with a Debian based Gnome distro you certainly did something right.
As a gnomiac I have been wanting to give ubunta a proper try, but don't want to have to go through an install on my desktop and don't have a machine to spare right now. So I downloaded the ubuntu live Cd and found - like most live CDs - the effort was a complete waste of time. Ok, given that it takes me like a half hour to download it wasn't a LOT of effort, but I was disappointed because I had heard so many good things.
I've also tried two releases of gnoppix and found neither of them to work any better on my two main machines (one of them being a thinkpad 600, which I would expect to be supported by just about anything). In fact, the only live CD I've had any real luck with is knoppix.
Downloaded the full load of ubuntu; given my luck so far trying to build gnome 2.8 on my mdk10.1 community I might just have to break down and give it a proper go. I sure hope it can live up to the hype.
First: Why not ?
Secondly: Maybe some of us want a real *nix on our PPC machines ? (Bah, OS-X is NOT a BSD, read this rant on why OS-X is anything but a BSD)
Sunny Dubey
There may be users like me who want a power-desktop like KDE. OS X looks greate, is easy to use, but there's more than look-and-feel and usability on a desktop for some people.
On the link included in the article. From my reading of this posting, it seems to say that Ubuntu has a PPC live CD image available for download, but that does not seem to be the case. I see an i386 live cd (which I downloaded last week), and a PPC install CD. I checked 3 of the download sites.
Did I miss something?
"Well it's not Victory - but then it's not Death either."
Perhaps you are unaware, but PPC hardware did in fact exist before OS X, and most of that pre-existing hardware will not run OS X. Given Linux vs. OS 9, I'd certainly choose Linux. Of course, I'd probably choose Linux regardless, as I'm not a huge fan of OS X, but to each his own.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that yours is stupid.
apt-get install dict-freedict :D
1. Someone buying a mac can certainly afford OS X. This may come as a surprise to you, but if you buy a new Mac it even comes with OS X. So please stop your trolling.
...
2. Again, I know it is hard to believe for some people, but there are computer users who don't think that OS X is the best OS that ever was and ever will be and that simply prefer Linux. Reasons for that may be that they are simply more familiar with Linux, that they want a coherent IT infrastracture and are already using Linux on their other machines, that they simply enjoy the choices Linux offers compare to OS X, that they are more productive with something like ratpoisen than with the eye-candy of OS X
3. For older Macs Linux is a great option, as OS X tends to run, ehm, not really fast on these machines.
If gnoppix is based on Ubuntu and Ubuntu already has a liveCD, then what the hell is gnoppix doing? Is gnoppix now just Ubuntu renamed? Seems like gnoppix just got displaced right?
Why would you want to run *nix on a ppc when you can run it on a cheaper amd64 machine? I like my powerbook, but this is also because it runs os X.
You see more sexually-explicit imagery in toothpaste adverts. What the hell is all the fuss about?
Use it to take the load off the main site...
Why not? I never said 'Don't install Linux on your Mac', I said 'Linux on the Mac is for masochists' and it's true. For me, I just have no desire to dick around with Linux while I have a perfectly serviceable Unix (tm) available.
As far as the Mac not being a real Unix, it is far more of a 'real' Unix than Linux. It's directly descended from AT&T Unix. It has a microkernel design, and is definitely BSD. That rant's amusing, but just because it doesn't do what that guy thinks a modern BSD should doesn't make it not BSD. His comment about Apple forking the code so they could take and not give back hold about as much water as your average sieve.
By the way, here's how the genius you quoted could use WPA on OS X:
"Kudos to the Macs for having a very simple WPA configuration. These are complete instructions to connect to dcs-wpa from any Mac running OS X 10.3 with a wireless ("AirPort") card.
Select "Other..." from the list of available wireless networks, either in the wireless ("AirPort") status menu or via Internet Connect, and enter the following information.
Wireless Security: WPA Enterprise
Network Name:
User Name:
Password: "
From UIUC's department of CS.
My sentiments go with most of the others who replied to this posting. In addition, there are some Linux users who have been using Linux on the PC platform for years who may want to switch over to PPC but aren't willing to part with their OS of choice. Having more Linux distros available for the PPC just means more choices. Why is that a bad thing?
it has something to do with Freedom.
How we know is more important than what we know.
If I can find a distro that supports airport express and has decent Chinese character support(the review for this one is /.ed), then I would switch my iBook over(though not my dual 1.8 G5) because surprisingly 384 megs is not enough to run OS X at a decent speed I would switch. The iBook is a nice piece of hardware, but I don't really want to upgrade the memory again just to run OS X at a decent speed...... Plus it's always nice to have variety!
Monstar L
i am glad ubuntu is getting the press it is getting, helps spread the good word of Linux, personally i use slackware, but for newbies and first time users an easy to install & use distro is important, so i wont bash ubuntu even though i hate gnome and prefer xfce for most my needs & kde when i want a more full featured desktop on occasion...
so i must say "Whoop Dee Doo for ubuntu!!!"
The CrapOS didn't print to dmesg when it had an error, I didn't find *any* logs of any value in /var/log/ and more annoyingly I couldn't easily
find a dhcp client on the command line. (sudo networksetup is a joke).
In any real modern *BSD system, the kernel would print everything to the
dmesg, and all logs would be done in a sanitary fashion in /var/log/* via
syslog, and more importantly, I would have dhclient to use at my finger
tips. Just like a real FreeBSD/NetBSD/OpenBSD system.
In a "real *BSD system," I believe you have the option of turning off printing to dmesg and uninstalling dhclient. If you did that, would it still be *BSD? If so, the basis of your argument is wrong. BSD is not, to my knowledge, a "look and feel," but a UNIX system and a license. It seems to me -- though I am no expert -- that Apple has held to the letter of both.
Besides, don't whine about Apple taking and not giving back. If they are violating the BSD license, then you have an issue, but it seems to me they are operating within it completely (and, in fact, they have "given back" some things).
'Power Desktop'?
I fail to see how KDE is a 'power desktop' - the virtual screens? The lack of tabs in the Terminal (which no seasoned Unix folk should ever need because of GNU screen)? Don't get me wrong, I used KDE for years (before I got my Mac and never looked back towards X11 Window Managers) and it's decent, but it doesn't touch the Mac.
But what is the fuss with the background image?
Ok, mod me as (-1 Dumbass) if you will, but let me know what's the fuss!
Online backup with Mozy, sounds like Ozzie, but more!
Unfortunately, that is just someone's opinions on whether or not OS X conforms to the mindest of so-called "real" BSD's. Kinda subjective, don't you think? I base a system's lineage on its actual roots. No matter how much MS claims that XP is an entirely new OS, the code base shows its NT roots, as does the fact that the same vulnerabilities exist on both OS's.
Well, I'd like a PPC for the hardware, but I'd get very tired of OS X very quickly. I've borrowed an ibook for one day and that was enough.
:)
Basically, with Debian I can make my machine do whatever I want. In order to use OSX I had to install a third-party virtual desktop manager, which was a bit flaky.
With Debian I'd stick ion2 on and be happy
Ehm, believe it or not, but there are also countries with other moral values than the US and Europe and people in these countries find these kind of pictures offensive.
Now you and I may not agree with this, but who are we to tell them they should adhere to our moral values?
Congrats for your impressive usage of the English language btw. I sometimes forget that it can be that strikingly beautiful.
Ubuntu hits first page every week...
I wonder how much Canonical Ltd. had to pay Slashdot for marketing campaign.
Why screw around with PPC Linux, when one can run OS X?
More software fully compatible with the system. Familiarity with an OS you used before. More frequent updates in most distros. You hate OS X. You just want to (TM).
Yeah, OK, if you're poor and can't afford OS X. Maybe if you're a developer. But for users?
If you buy a mac, OS X is there. No "I'm poor" choice, unless we talk upgrading from OS 9 (rare case).
For users, perhaps it doesn't make sense. As it doesn't make sense for (non power) users in the 80x86 platform switching to linux from windows, if they can afford it and feel fine with the desktop.
Then again, linux in ppc is as masochist as linux in 80x86, in most aspects. But while people like you wonder why should someone use linux, there are happy linux campers around, and they don't care if you don't want to run linux cause you think it's for masochists.
Based on your opinion, I could go on a rant "Apple hardware is for elitist assholes/rich brats/etc., x86 is the way!". But I don't think like that, and I don't want to.
Are you sure Gnoppix is based on Ubuntu?
I was under the impression it was the other way around.
A couple of days ago I tried the Ubuntu RC and on the startup menu (under advanced or something like that; can't really recall correctly) there was something stating that it was GNOPPIX (I could confirm that later at home).
So, is it Gnoppix that is based on Ubuntu, or the other way around?
This is somewhat of a stock remark.
...
There are very good reasons to run linux on an OSX machine.
I used to run linux on several Mac's at my old workplace.
Reason OS9 is useless for serious web development work - sorry but dreamweaver and go-live are not my bag. Its also useless as a half decent web-server platform. I could have done some of these things on OSX granted but
a) it wasnt possible to persuade the powers that be to purchase OSX (not that I even asked)
b) on older Mac's - linux just performs much faster compare the speed of YDL on a blue G3 (333mhz) to OS9 running on the same machine - the latter is like a snail in comparison.
Now dont get me wrong - OSX is great and all - Someday soon I might treat myself to a powerbook.
There are things that make OSX superior to Linux eg:
availability of "cool" livestyle applications iMovie, iTunes, iPhoto, iWhatever - The other attraction for me about OSX is the avalability of proper decent Music Sequencing / Composition software like Reason / Logic and Cubase. All this cools stuff and the inner peace that "it's not windows/micorosoft" and "theres a unix variant under the hood" are the reasons I find it attractive.
Linux however is still IMHO better as a server platform because it enables you to cut out all the crap that goes with the OSX gui. Its much easier to set-up , configure and run in headless operation. Its easier to patch and keep up to date. OSX can be more expensive to keep running if you manage to get yourself into the upgrade cycle.
While OSX is a very capable OS in both the server and the desktop space. And in addition it can run lots of your fave Linux apps via Fink et.al. For serious server-side development all the sexy gui stuff "Just gets in the way" whereas for Joe sixpack "It Just Works". We had am OSX server at my old place I rarely used it because it was such a pain to configure apache and friends.
IMHO Linux PPC
is great on older Macs as a desktop or a server / development platform
IMHO OSX
is great on shiny Mac's as a desktop and as a point'n'clicky server for less experienced staff.
Its also great if you have an eye candy fetish and an open source fetish.(you can still use many of your favorite apps), but also need use some of the proprietary apps that just dont exist on Linux.
Nick
Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp
.. dual-boot with OSX.
.. you can see visible tearing with rect updates in the manager, though the system generally feels (from the cmd line) about as fast as it should be.
.. and with Mac-On-Linux (installed, but not properly config'ed .. yet) I'll be in real heaven, using OSX for candy and Linux for hard-core work.
..
Mine is the rev-a powerbook (the one with the firewire problems), so maybe its my hardware, but the default X config that ships with Ubuntu is s-l-o-w
It is pretty darn nice, sloppy GUI aside, to be running Linux on this machine, which has been a trusty and productive computer (running OSX) since I got it. It truly is pleasurable to have the two best operating sytems around as a selection on my powerBook
OSX is a great Unix, anyway, but for the things that I can't be bothered porting (or using fink to install), and just want to check out anyway, a quick boot into Linux to have a complete 'standard-ish' Linux system to apply that code to, is really productive.
If you've got a PowerBook, I urge you to dual-boot it with Linux/OSX. It will give you some serious reflection about the power of your computer, I think, to see Linux running on it, and OSX side-by-side, as well
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
The Ubuntu LiveCD and the Gnoppix LiveCD are based upon Morphix, which basically takes away the hard work of re-mastering a Knoppix CD. The base, the part based upon Knoppix contains the kernel, kernel modules, hardware detection, etc. This base is left untouched. You can either a change a mainmod or add lots of minimodules to make different liveCDs
The Ubuntu LiveCD is built using one of Morphix Tools Module Maker. Feed you XML file into module maker and out pops your mainmodule for the LiveCD.
There are a range of tools Morphix tools available to make a LiveCD. Such as Module Maker ibuild and TROM. It is even possible to save you files, configuration and setting to the Morphix LiveCD you using using CD persistant, ready for next boot up. Did I mention the GUI Morphix installer ?
Why not? I never said 'Don't install Linux on your Mac', I said 'Linux on the Mac is for masochists' and it's true.
Please elaborate. I find distros like Ubuntu as easy to use and install on PPC as Mac OS X. Yeah, I've used both, in case you wonder.
For me, I just have no desire to dick around with Linux while I have a perfectly serviceable Unix (tm) available.
Well, it's your life. We linux users don't care.
As far as the Mac not being a real Unix, it is far more of a 'real' Unix than Linux. It's directly descended from AT&T Unix. It has a microkernel design, and is definitely BSD.
First, AT&T unix didn't have microkernel parts at all, so direct descendency is more than questionable. Second, UNIX System V came after BSD, it's a more modern UNIX specification, but still UNIX. Linux follows this one. Third, OS X uses a microkernel to load the bsd one completely in memory. There goes your microkernel design.
And last, remember that to have a true UNIX(R) system, you have to pay for certification. Perhaps linux could get it, but the developers already said they wouldn't apply for it since it's not their goal to make a pure UNIX system.
I used to run OS X on my Powerbook G3 (Wallstreet) 266, with 192 MB RAM. It went OK, if a little painful when running several big apps at the same time. I like OS X. Browsing with Safari while reading usenet news with Thunderbird could be a bit slow if iTunes was running, and so on. But apart from that, it was better than you'd expect. Then one of my RAM modules broke, and I was down to 64 MB. OS X wouldn't boot. OS 9 is crap. I installed first Yellowdog, then moved to Debian because Yellowdog's apt was broken.
Debian works well. All my HW is supported, and just browsing with Firefox is much smoother than it ever was in OS X (but of course, running several apps at the time is even more painful with only 64 MB RAM). I finished my thesis in LaTeX and Emacs for Linux instead of using the same in Apple's X11. Not to mention that these are far better integrated in Debian than in OS X with Fink (or that other horrendous TeX installer-thingy with the most miserable GUI I've ever seen). OpenOffice too, if I need Word support.
Oh, and the fact that I know Debian so well means that it's just as user friendly as it possibly can be for me. OS X just give me shiny graphical interfaces for doing the same things a bit more slowly. I can do everything I want to do in Linux, and I'm definately just a user.
Yeah .. *ahem* .. all of that Apt package management is for naught if, after doing a successful install, you still don't get icons in your Program menu.
.. stupid!
This is the #1 problem I have with Ubuntu so far (besides the slow X refresh rate...), its so frustrating to have to work out how to start apps once they've installed, and I usually just resort back to the shell to fire things up
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
I fail to see how KDE is a 'power desktop' - the virtual screens?
No, because you can configure most things on the desktop interface and stuff. You know, stuff that scares non power users. Good job on playing ignorant, though.
The lack of tabs in the Terminal
KDE has tabs on the terminal. Renew your sources.
Linux and Pr0n on one CD !! .. I now realize why this has become wildly popular ...
... :)
Well, couldn't resist that
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur
Have you actually looked at KDE since 3.2? I own an Ibook and as nice as OSX is, i tired of it after a while. KDE DOES have tabs in konsole, it has full 2d (spacial) workspaces, its much faster than aqua(aside from quartz of course but thats to do with X) and you can actually configure KDE to work the way you want it to. You can even make KDE look/feel like your mac if you miss the purtyness.
The lack of tabs in the Terminal
..
wtf? (must have been a very long time since you used KDE - i've been using it for about 5yrs and as far as i can remember KDE's terminal has always had tabs.
Other than "tabs" which have existed for years anyways. What exactly makes OSX superior to KDE as a "Power Desktop"?
Nick
I hear a lot about the impending 'death' of Gentoo. I'm a casual linux user, and have Gentoo on 2 machines. Can someone please tell me what the problem is? I don't see any glaring problems with Gentoo. Emerge is fantastic, services are handled flawlessly and in a way I understand. Portage always has 95% of the things I need.
What am I missing?
I love my Gentoo, but if there is something better, please fill me in. Oh, and telling me *why* your alternative is better would be nice also.
-- I have fans? Wow.
Ubuntu is as easy to use and install as OS X?
How about setting up Samba? What about color calibrating your monitor? What about getting your scanner to work? How about USB printing? Burning CDs? Editing DV? Bluetooth?
I could go on. Forever.
You should be able to do USB scanners, printers, and Bluetooth pretty much out of the box (although you need an external repository for Bluetooth stuff as it's still in development). If you plug in hardware and it doesn't Just Work, we consider this a bug, so please file one!
-- x hacker, iterant idiot (with apologies to michael meeks)
OK, here we go again, Linux for PPC, for x86, for 64-bit processors, for Alpha etc.
Can someone please answer me this: WHEN are we going to see a decent Linux distribution for SPARC machines (Ultra 10s and the like)??? It's like platform support for SPARC is dead or something and everyone keeps bringing out more and more distributions for PPC just because it's cool (?) to do so...
Or is there even a remote possiblity that a *BSD will do equally well on a SPARC machine, as to render Linux redundant?
Apparently it is a photo of humans hugging. It would be perfectly ok if they pointed guns and shot at each other, as usual.
Actually, they're not "hugging"; they're just sort of standing there looking stoned.. Or maybe that's supposed to be an attitude - "we're tough, we're rebels, we're naked - and we have varying skin tones, so we're oh so enlightened".
I would find it less annoying if there were some actual sexuality there. Instead, you have all of the immorality of one naked guy and two naked girls, with none of the fun.
Except that Linux is now the default *nix. There is a reason why IBM designed there mainframes to run Linux. IBM didn't setup there mainframes to run virtual machines of BSD. There is a reason why Solaris and FreBSD have linux emulation layers. There is a reason why Sun sells Linux machines.
There are more Linux than Mac servers. Depending on whose numbers you use, there are more Linux Desktops than Macs. Even the conservative numbers put Linux about equal with Macs.
Just a Tuna in the Sea of Life
Why would you want to run *nix on a ppc when you can run it on a cheaper amd64 machine?
Shit this is a stupid question, but I'll answer it anyway:
Because you have a PPC machine, and don't have an AMD64.
Consumericanism, kiddies. Cure thyself!
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
I'm a long time linux promoter. I would like to "Show Off" Linux (read eye candy) to a bunch of people I know, trying to convert them to Linux. I would like to know your opinion on which linux Distro looks the best (to the end user) without sacrificing on the usuall Linux efficiency. -- Don't eat me, I have wife and kids, eat them - Homer Simpson
After Novell surpised me by sending Suse DVD's all the way to the bushes in Africa I could not stop myself from requesting some Ubuntu CD's (I am still on a 56K modem and Telkom charges an arm and a leg for connecting to the internet). I am now watching the mail box like a hawk. Thank You Mark in advance Anxiously waiting for Ubuntu CD's.
...and one flew over the cuckoo's nest.
I can't believe that in this day and age people still don't use awesome timesaving apps like DreamWeaver for webdev. I couldn't imagine going back to using a text editor to by hand and then ftp'ing or ssh'ing stuff over. If you don't keep up with the more efficient IDEs you'll get left behind! Like the poor guys who still program in assembly because its "pure" or someshit.
A Newbie to Linux is not going to have much fun installing the Ubuntu Warty 4.1 release, unless they just let it "do it's own thing" which will more than likely end up destroying all the data they have on thier hard drive, namely, windows.
Perhaps a "newbie to Debian" would be a more accurate description.
I tried it recently and as a slackware 'fancier' I must admit it didn't suit me. In fact, I've never been able to get used to the idiosyncracies of Debain based distributions, even though it's supposedly so easy.
I installed and am giving it the benefit of the dought - who knows, perhaps I'll become a convert and learn to love the Debian way as much as I like Slackware !
But Ubuntu a newbies distro ? - wow, maybe the LiveCD, but the i386 I tried is anything but !
A slashdotting - you get the stick first and then the carrot !
Suerly I'm not the only one who hates the mac ui. What I am err ok then I'll go sit in the corner.
'Cos we all know that P2P is essentially evil and serves no purpose for legal distribution of large files, even so here's the BitTorrent Link
<? include ('signature.inc'); ?>
This post also serves as an experiment to determine whether such a debate can be avoiding by pointing out the imminent danger of it materialising.
It can also serve as an experiment to determine whether avoidance of the debate will be avoided by mentioning that the mention of the imminent danger of a debate serves as an experiment.
Further it can serve as an experiment to determine whether avoidance of the avoidance of.......
I got an iBook earlier this year, and while it's definitely a great machine and I really like MacOS X overall, I do miss a lot of KDE's stuff.
.DS_Store droppings on there already, so why not save the thumbnails too?
:-)
For instance, the Finder seems quite polished from the outside, but its innards basically stink. It's often crashed on me on imported Samba shares, and it broke horribly when I tried copying just a few thousand JPEGs* in a folder which Konqueror coped fine with, even loading all the thumbnails for the images in a nice, fast and tidy manner.
Talking of thumbnails, the Finder doesn't appear to have any thumbnail caching. When I look at my exported home directory on my elderly Linux server, I hear its hard disk churning as the iBook copies all the pictures over the network for the millionth time. It leaves enough
Oh, and files go missing. I can save something on to the desktop from Safari, click on the 'Attach' button in Mail.app to bring up the file selector, go to the desktop folder only to find the file I just saved isn't there. Randomly clicking on stuff often makes the file magically reappear. I've never seen behaviour like this with software on Linux...
I do like OS X, and to me the above flaws are just annoyances, but I really don't think it's some pinnacle of software engineering that KDE and the like can never reach. It's good, yes, but I'm still interested in running Linux on this machine as well.
(* See signature!)
Tedious Bloggy Stuff - hooray?
Virtual screens are a lifesaver on a laptop. The small screen size makes it impossible to efficiently work with multiple application windows open simultaneously on a single desktop.
By the lack of tabs in terminal I assume you actually mean the inclusion of tabs in konsole? Remember not everyone is an mscreen guru!
Yes, KDE doesn't touch aqua - it beats it to a pulp.
Konsole doesn't lack tabs, quite on the contrary. It is getting better with each release, it is now a great replacement to good ol' xterm, plus tabs, plus all the KDE eye candy you can whitstand.
Stupidity is an equal opportunity striker.
Fellow slashdotter Bill Dog
Under OS X 10.3 Server this is no longer true. In fact, Apple has a whole manual dedicated to commandline administration. Using the systemsetup command allows you to change almost anything. And if you want that GUI goodness, you run Server Admin or Workgroup Manager on an OS X Client somewhere to configure the machines.
At the login screen, you can enter: >console to turn off all the GUI crap on the server.
And a quick: root# softwareupdate -i -a at the command-line will update the machine.
You can even do a headless install of OS X server if you are so inclined, and you can automate the install if you need to configure more than one machine.
Back to the topic... I installed Ubuntu on an old AMD K6-400 with 256MB of ram, and was quite surprised at the performance. It took a while for applications to start (Firefox took a minute or two), but once started it was usable.
What, me worry?
Do you have a link to back up this statement? All the site I've googled up (aside from the fact that most of the figures were 2-3 years old) showed that the overall percentage of linux desktop usage was about 1/2 of mac desktop usage. And a lot of these figures were pre-osx.
OK let's back away from this 'Linux vs. OSX' thread before it's too late. Whoops, too late.
The parent raises a good point. I've installed Gentoo a few times and use it as my main distro at home and I have not had many problems with it, other than simply being unfamiliar with some parts of Linux in general. Recently I've heard people in chat rooms talking about the *death* of Gentoo.
Personally, I think Gentoo is great. Granted, it doesn't have a standard graphical install where everything just works, but it does have a lot of power, especially with the portage tree and emerge. Although I have heard of projects that are working to create a graphical installer for Gentoo, but unofficial.
Having a smoking section in a public restaurant is like having a peeing section in a public swimming pool.
There was a time when Linux was the OS used to breathe new life into old machines. It was understood, and well accepted.
Why this has changed, I don't know.
I have a beige G3 500 that can't run OS X 10.3 (haven't checked the last version of XPostFacto...), and 10.0 thru 10.2 are pretty dog slow on it. Ubuntu/YDL/Mandrake give me alternatives. And alternatives are good.
IBM didn't setup there mainframes to run virtual machines of BSD
They must have read somewhere that BSD is dying. Is this confirmed by the way?
(ducks)
Please login to access my lawn
Gentoo won't die, why should it? It has a great userbase and its users like it. The occasional Gentoo user might die at the hands of an overly excitable debian user, but that's as far as it'll get ;)
....but can i run it under PearPC?
Linux is to the internet as Duct Tape is to the Universe.
That's nice, but what is the reason for Linux having Unixware and Xenix emulation layers?
I prefer Linux.
Anybody know when Gnoppix 8.1 REL will be released? The Gnoppix website said October 20, 2004, but there has been no announcement of its release.
Andrew
Why did I lurk so long before registering for a Slashdot account? I could have had a Slashdot ID of less than 100000.
Yeah, come to think of it, I think it was a Debian user who insistantly said "Gentoo is *dying*." I've never used Debian myself, but I have no plans of leaving Gentoo.
Having a smoking section in a public restaurant is like having a peeing section in a public swimming pool.
I installed Ubuntu on my Mac. I installed it in Japanese (it was one of the options), installation stage 2 and suddenly all screen messages are scrambled. Great. No way to read what the buttons say. Well, force reboot and start install over. This time in English.
Next thing I find there's no Japanese input system. So I can display Japanese, but not input it. After searching the Ubuntu wiki I learn that Japanese actually isn't really supported (so why is it an installation option then?), but you can install a Japanese input system. Installed it, it works.
Next thing that I find is that for some reason in OpenOffice only about 2/3 of the Japanese characters get displayed properly the rest is replaced with some weird placeholder. Not that crap like this does not happen with the Alpha Java port of OpenOffice call NeoOffice/J for Mac OS X.
All in all Ubuntu might be better than many Linux distros, but compared to OS X it's a joke. Here I can use my OS switched to German and switch between German keyboard layout, US keyboard layout and Japanese input method on-the-fly.
There are two rules for success:
1. Never tell everything you know.
That is rediculous reasoning.
Almost like saying, I bought this Porsche but because I don't feel like filling it with 94 octane..it's going to run slower. Oh well, I'll just fill it with regular 89 octane.
You own an iBook AND a G5. Don't even try to say you can't afford a 512 stick of ram for $100.
- for ubuntu... however, you can try this one:
d /
http://gentoo.osuosl.org/experimental/ppc/livec
Disclaimer: I'm a Gentoo fan, and have been running it since the 1.1 release.
:)
The main thing that sets people off is the lack of instant gratification. You can't just download an RPM or apt-get and have a program working instantly. Most of these people don't understand (or don't want to understand) that compiles can run in the background at a low priority -- even for things you're running (X, KDE, Mozilla, etc). Most programs compile in a couple of minutes.
It's really annoying to see people with decently powerful hardware complaining about compile times. I guess their versions of *nix don't have the ability to set priorities with "nice".
Same here, except I'm using debian without any plans of leaving it ;)
Even though there's no X.org in apt and portage is always much faster with newer versions of just about anything ;)
I have a perfectly serviceable Unix (tm) available.
The trademark UNIX (tm) should only be applied to certified UNIX (tm) operating systems. Apple have not had MacOS X certified as UNIX (tm) so your assertion that you "have a perfefctly servicable Unix (tm) [sic]" is wrong. You have MacOS X, which happens to look and behave as a UNIX (tm) system might in some regards, but it is not a UNIX (tm)
the said the distro was gnome only.
I recently converted to the KDE after being a die hard icewm user.
I've read so many comments on slashdot about what a pain in the ass Gnome is.
If I want to futz, I will go back to icewm.
Speaking of Linux distributions, what AMD64 Linux distribution would you guys recommend for use on a high-traffic production server with AMD64/Opteron CPUs? I'm currently looking into Debian's AMD64 port for Sarge (I know, not released yet), Ubuntu, Red Hat Enterprise, and Fedora Core. Which one of these is the most stable/robust? I'd prefer to go with a Debian-based distribution (due to their package management system), but of course stability is more important than convenience.
Thanks.
somebody slashdot the .torrent so the download can move faster.
My brain hurts just saying that.
13 year old white supremacists are shitty web designers.
Debian on my iMac is fine, and the install was no more masochistic than Debian on x86 type hardware. Why instead of OS X? Well, one, I got the iMac (its a DV model) for free, and no OS was on it.
Why am I using it? It draws less power, generates less heat, and takes less space as a server in my kid's closet, especially when compared to either of my other choices - a dual AMD rig (heat/noise problem) or a old Dell P-75 (heat/noise is ok, lacks processing power).
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
Samba: easy
Scanner: downloaded the HPOJ drivers from Universe. Works immediately. (I use an HP PSC 950.)
USB Printing: works out of the box
Burning CDs: Very, very easy. Data just needs to be dragged and dropped in the burn:/// folder, ISOs just need right-clicked. Music needs XCDRoast, available in Universe.
Bluetooth: no experience, but I think it's built in.
Not hard at all.
Haec merda tauri est. Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.
Because SCO UNIX used to have commercial software. The layer was removed in 2.6, BTW.
In a nutshell, the thing that has amazed me is how easy it was to set up. I was running slack with dropline, and this was a transparent replacement.
Mind you, I reinstalled rather than upgraded, but it was frighteningly simple to get EVERY device on my thinkpad working, including the wireless.
It just works. Beyond that they have kept the amount of stuff installed to a reasonable minimum, so that I don't have to fish through 10,000 packages.
That is why there is such a furor over the 'disputed' artwork in my opinion. The distro works so well that people have nothing else to bitch about.
K
"If sharing a thing in no way diminishes it, it is not rightly owned if it is not shared." -St. Augustine
So OS X is not recommended for porn?
So just because a random guy could not get a dhcp lease using a command he's used to in his FreeBSD installation MacOSX is not BSD? I don't think so.
Not UNIX, but UNIX-based.
i tried to use OSX for a few days with some real intent, but just found the interface so unbearably complex and confusing. a veritable circus of FX and layered, semantic prompts and 'helpers'. it just doesn't talk back to me in a language i can begin to understand.
admittedly i am a longtime fan of the CLI (i like to speak to my computer) but many others i know reject the OSX DE over Gnome or KDE (neither of which I use however) declaring it's easier to understand. Some of these people have come from apple's OS 9.
put simply, apple's flag of useability is not generic, but very particular and specialised; this is contrary to their gross and apparently empirical assumptions that useability can be homogenized and typified.
secondly OSX is itself a specialist OS, built for specialist hardware. for many it is simply too risky to invest in such a rarified OS, hence linux on the PPC can be a wiser choice with more flexibility and less likelihood of feeling that ones growing ability is locked in to a very particular breed of machine.
finally OSX itself isn't free, and thus cannot *actively and integrally* invlove end users in the design process; it's a third part y company designing how i should use a computer based on an economically defined generalisation of statistical information gleaned from user-testing. this conseravtive approach is old fashioned, anti-innovation and on the short way out.
I thought it was for the Pocket PC... I almost blew a load in my pants. Then I read it's talking about the Mac... I almost blew my chow.
-----
Make Love not [Browser] War!
Yes the missing x.org is a hazzle, but you can roll it yourself into debian without having to touch the core packag.
Next thing I find there's no Japanese input system. So I can display Japanese, but not input it. After searching the Ubuntu wiki I learn that Japanese actually isn't really supported (so why is it an installation option then?), but you can install a Japanese input system. Installed it, it works.
So you were using an unsupported language and find it weird that you have problems later. Big deal.
How about setting up Samba?
There are graphical tools for setting up samba, and pretty easy to use. Just google. In ubuntu they can be installed with synaptic.
What about color calibrating your monitor?
Automatic on xfree86. If you mean advanced color calibrating, I dunno, but gimp allows to do it manually, and I'm pretty positive there are many intuitive utils for that in linux (haven't ever had the need, so can't tell you which ones).
Although since Macs are used extensively in graphic design and stuff, it's pretty clear linux is at a disadvantage there.
What about getting your scanner to work?
RTFA, he got an USB scanner working immediately.
How about USB printing?
Works. Cups and its graphical config tools do the job.
Burning CDs?
Drag and drop to nautilus burning window. Sound juicer for ripping and burning audio CDs and mp3/ogg/whatever.
Have you really used ubuntu at all? A bit weird, calling linux users masochistic when you haven't used linux in years. Let me take your place: Is Mac OS still so unstable and single user? Oh, wait, that was Mac OS 9, sorry. Nevermind it was obsolete since 2001.
Editing DV?
Kino, easy to use. Cinelerra, pro option. Installation sets automatically ieee1394 ports and video input.
Bluetooth?
Oh, please, stop this. You don't know a damn about linux since 2002+. I used Mac OS X yesterday for 3 hours.
You just lack enough knowledge to crap on it like you are trying to.
I installed Ubuntu on my PowerMac G4 last night. It recognized my Airport card and worked flawlessly.
.iso.
Perhaps the only problem that I had was burning the Ubuntu ISO, which kept causing Disk Tool/hdiutil to crash. I ended up installing CDRecord to burn the
All the site I've googled up (aside from the fact that most of the figures were 2-3 years old) showed that the overall percentage of linux desktop usage was about 1/2 of mac desktop usage. And a lot of these figures were pre-osx.
And pre-kernel 2.6, pre-windows XP, pre-death-of-beos, pre-linux-on-dreamworks. That is, totally obsolete.
If you think that when Mac OS X went out all OS 9 users bought more Apple hardware to run it, Windows didn't get more market dominance and Linux didn't get more installations, you're pretty optimistic.
The post you're answering to is much more valid than yours. At least it's general knowledge that Mac desktops are right now on the same marker level that Linux ones. Not considering the recent installations of Sun Java Desktop in China and UK.
ya, and why screw around with x86 linux when one can run windows? ya, ok, if you are poor and cant afford windows. maybe youre a developer. but for users? bah.
It's really annoying to see people with decently powerful hardware complaining about compile times. I guess their versions of *nix don't have the ability to set priorities with "nice".
If you hadn't included your last sentenance, then you would have had a valid point and been informative. Unfortunately, now, it's sounds just like one big put down.
Does anyone know where I can get the ISO of an Enemy Territory LiveCD? I know Gentoo Games released one, but their website has been down forever, and I can't find a torrent of any on Suprnova or any other torrent sites. Lots of googling isn't helping either? I know this is a bit offtopic, but any answers would be terrific. Thanks.
I got a powerbook three weeks ago - and have been using linux since .99p11 or so.
.app structure they adopted from NeXT Step is fairly cool, and uninstalling an app that you've dragged and dropped into Applications is easy - not so with packages (.pkg) that are installed with apples installer. They potentially sprinkle stuff in many places (Applications, Library, etc.) and there's no provided means to un-install them. Fortunately there's an opensource tool (OSXPM) that mostly bridges that gap.
Let me start by saying that the powerbook hardware is sweet. The driving factor behind the purchase was that I wanted a good screen (I have the 15"), large disk, lots of RAM, and for the package to weigh less than 6 lbs. I looked for a long time and failed to find a good solution in the intel space. (HP makes a machine that's really close - but has crappy intel shared memory graphics.)
My biggest gripes with OSX are around customizability (i.e., it aint).
Focus-follows-mouse? Sorry, no can do (yea, I know there's a virtual desktop program that, for $40, will do a hacked up focus-follows-mouse, that breaks apps like Firefox and Thunderbird - no thank you).
Multi-screen support? Sucks - someone please explain why it makes sense to have the menu bar on screen A while the application window is on screen B? Shouldn't the menu bar at least move to the screen with the active window? Similarly, certain dialogs insist on opening on the primary screen - even if the active app window is on a different one. Talk about annoying. It's seems fairly obvious that no one @ Apple actually did usability testing on their multi-monitor support.
While I appreciate the design goal of sheets (modal dialogs that are tied to the parent window border) the inability to get a modal dialog out of the way so you can intelligently answer the question it's posing can be terribly frustrating (particularly bad in Thunderbird's spellcheck).
Oh, and why the hell is the setting for default browser/mailer hidden in Safari/Mail? Seems like a fairly obvious system-level property to me.
Turning on Full Keyboard Navigation really doesn't mean full keyboard navigation. Non text-entry widgets never get keyboard focus - so selecting items from drop-down lists, or toggling checkboxes/radio buttons requires reaching for the mouse. Irksome.
Package management is hideous and hacky. The
I have a friend at Apple, and when I asked him these (and other) questions his basic answer was: "just use it - you'll adapt."
There are parts of OS X that are really good - and that Linux would do well to adopt. Wireless networking just works - and configuration is painless. Dynamic reconfiguration when screens are added/removed - gads I wish X could do that (I've gotten close using some the MergedFB support in the ATI driver, custom shell scripts and the xrandr extension - but it requires manual intervention). Oh, and it's certainly full of eye candy.
Essentially, OS X is fine as long as "think different" means "think like Apple" - but if you want your machine to adapt to *you* rather than the other way around, it falls short.
So I'll probably download the live CD and give it a whirl. I'm watching the evolving Fedora PPC support with great interest.
Any Mac can run OSX. There was even a story posted about it 2 days ago. :)
-"It seems like you're trying to exploit a security hole. Would you like help?"
It's always too late. It's inevitable in a story about linux on PPC the first comment will always be "why would anyone want to run linux when OSX is just soooo amazing." Well, here it is, get ready.....some of use just prefer linux. That's it. Just prefer it. No subjective better than/worse than arguments will change personal preferences. Not even objective but I can't put my iBook to sleep arguments will deter some.
I have all kinds of machines around. I have a monster laptop that's mostly been banished to my desktop for size/weight/lack of battery concerns, so I haul around a beat up old little 12" G3 500 iBook that I happened to come by super cheap when a friend was selling an old one. I like having a consistent working environment. I like using OOo calc to keep track of my students and it just looks like crap and runs about the same in OSX. I like playing Kpat to kill time. I was running Ubuntu for a while, but switched back to Mandrake when the 10.1 for PPC hit RC2. I'm also running Mandrake on my desktop, cause I just like it. I actually like KDE (let the next set of flames commence) which is part of why I left Ubuntu.
I really wish we could leave these my-os-is-better-than-yours arguments out of the discussions and just talk about the distro from the article on it's own without having to compare it to everything else first.
I found Ubuntu to be really nice distro. The wake-from-sleep issue seems to be particular to certain iBooks, and I tend to blame it on the kernel becuase I'm having the same problem with Mandrake 10.1 RC2, but never had the problem with 9.1 or YellowDog 3. I found the packages that are included in Ubuntu to be a nice balance between not including too much stuff and having everything I like to use installed by default. I'm a big fan of only having to download one CD for the whole installation. I'm also finally understanding what all those debian fanboys are talking about with the vastness of the deb repositories. There are about a bagillion packages out there that can be installed, even if they're not officially suppossed to work with Ubuntu. The defualt brown theme was intereting for a while, but I much relieved to get back the Mandrake blue. I know themes can be changed, but I'm talking first impressions with the default theme.
Windows is the de facto operating system for desktop PCs, now your point was? Linux is hyped, if you Linux users spent the time giving a try at the alternatives (OpenBSD for firewalls, NetBSD for exotic hardware and FreeBSD for servers and desktops) you might be surprised.
Do you want to know which is the best desktop operating system ever made for x86 PCs? BeOS. Too bad Gassée's arrogance killed it.
If you hadn't included your last sentenance, then you would have had a valid point and been informative. Unfortunately, now, it's sounds just like one big put down.
:)
You left off the smiley. Changes the context, IMHO.
Besides... in my opinion, a lot of the reasons people have for not wanting to compile packages are "uninformed" at best, and "bogus" at worst. I've had people say they switched because 2-3 minute compile times (measured on my "old" system) would take too long on their cutting edge boxes. Or that they don't want to compromise desktop performance. Or that they don't have the free CPU cycles, thanks to Seti@home or other distributed packages.
I've actually played Unreal Tournament with a compile running in the background. There weren't any framerate problems, and I didn't even realize I had done it until after I'd quit the game. (The compile hadn't progressed, but once I exitted UT it picked right back up.)
Ok, I read the rant. The you complain about log file structure, and a missing DHCP command line client. The defining features of UNIX are multitasking/multi-user capabilities, a set of APIs that treat everything as a file rather than inventing a new interface for every entity (aka POSIX) and a collection of tools that support a powerful command line and scripts. Setup differences of BSD vs MacOSX vs Cygwin in that respect are trivial and not worth switching if you already have a working setup on one platform. OSX UI is another story entirely.
Besides you were trying to switch from WEP to WPA and that's one radio button selection on AirPort setup utility. If you have a cheap wireless router with an intelectually challenging setup procedure, well that's not the notebook's problem.
You should browse the packages in Planet CCRMA
http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/software/
for music sequencing, composition, and synthesis software. It installs on top of Red Hat (e.g. Fedora Core 2) ergo no PPC but many of the same packages may be available in one of the Agnulas
http://www.agnula.org/
or on Debian or in Ubuntu universe.
Dude-
Is that guy in the desktop background getting it on with two chicks?
Sweeeeet
I assume you mean OSX server, since the standard OSX "client" comes with your shiny new mac...
I've got linux on my G4/450 server and OSX on my G3/450 fileserver (strictly for Appleshare). But there's lot of reasons to plop linux even on newer macs. Assuming you've got a mac that you want to use as a server or a development platform, although OSX IS a *nix, it's not linux, and things that work fine in OSX tend not to work right in linux and vice versa. ie- different paths for some stuff, different libs, xinetd vs inet.d, etc.
I, myself, prefer linux for a headless server that sits in a corner. It's easier to set everything up without a monitor... unless you've got remote desktop and/or OSX server... which I've never really played with.
...spike
Ewwwwww, coconut...
As far as I can tell there is no Live CD for PPC. Are there plans to release one?
His point was that if it's an unsupported language, it shouldn't be readily available in the installer. Why install in Japanese if you later can't type it in? It's a bug or an oversight.
Bluetooth is in universe. Search for bluez*. I just wish the gnome-bluetooth or kbluetooth stuff was available.
The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer. - Edward R. Murrow
actually I use Quanta
Gentoo has it's advantages, but I'm not sure it can break out of it's current techie niche. Even if the process is pretty much automated, the average user is not going to want to wait to compile everything. Sure, a couple minutes here or there isn't a big thing, but compiling KDE is!
Granted, the big advantage to Gentoo, even if one doesn't want to tweak everything, is that with emerge, you can have the latest and greatest of whatever you want, without having to wait for someone else to package and distribute it.
I'm just not sure that the average user will see that as big of an advantage as it truly is. And for Gentoo to really be a contender on the desktop, it needs to grab the average user (Gentoo or any distro, for that matter).
But dies very promptly on my Laptop (which is fully supported (bar possibly the model) under Linux. Not that I'm bitching but they still have some work to do.
ubuntu installed great. no hassle what so ever. all devices worked perfect.
//karl
but gnome, firefox and evolution died or zombied on me every second minute.
i've fallen back on my gentoo.
You don't find the default Mandrake theme ass ugly?
Compared to something like Suse ootb I have actually had better experiences with Mandrake, but I think their desktop design is so god-awful ugly -- between the bright blue and the stars and the little round buttons everywhere that look like marbles dropped onto cardboard squares cut from the inside of a shoebox -- this alone is what's holding back its reputation as a "serious" desktop. Even the startup screen just screams "we suck."
A little off topic, but does anyone if there is a solution equivalent to VMWare for the PPC or something like Linux-on-Mac (as opposed to Mac-on-Linux)?
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
When I had the knoppix live cd, I had the option to run the knoppix installer script which allowed me to install a working knoppix on my HD.
the ubuntu live cd has no such feature.. seems fucking dumb I have to no go and burn the install CD (with most of the same content), after just burning and trying out the live cd (which is nice btw).
--Etan
Greetings Ubuntu-Announce readers,
v e-i386.iso.torrentv e-i386.iso
Ubuntu 4.10 -- Warty Warthog -- released on October 20th and has
gotten great feedback so far. The Ubuntu Team is now pleased to
announce that the companion Warty Live CD is released as well!
The Live CD contains a snapshot of everything in the Ubuntu 4.10 but
in a bootable trial form. It will allow you to try out Ubuntu before
installing it, without repartitioning or overwriting any existing
software or data. To use it, just place it in the drive and reboot
your computer. It also contains a small collection of Free and Open
Source software shipped in Ubuntu that you can install on your Windows
system.
The Live CD is only available for Intel and compatible "i386"
processors.
You can get it from one of the follow locations:
Bittorrent:
http://releases.ubuntu.com/warty/warty-release-li
Direct download:
http://releases.ubuntu.com/warty/warty-release-li
Enjoy!
LaMont Jones and the Ubuntu Team
shock. horror. move along.
Mac OS X is a rock solid server for the non-geeks.
Mac OS X is the best os for a small business server because after a 30 minute tutorial, a small business person, who is non technical, could handle doing many basic tasks like adding/removing users, adding additional storage space, replacing failed hard drives (with XServes).
Linux is probably faster and cheaper for setup, but would in most small business cases befuddle and scare the shit out of the average small office/buisness, while OS X, while more expensive up front, could be set up "By My Mom", and for most simple operations, run by her as well.
guns kill people like spoons make Rosie O'Donnell fat.
Excuse me? Certainly OS X isn't "free", although parts of it are. However, where did you get the idea that Gnome isn't "a third-party company designing how you should use a computer based on an economically defined generalization of statistical information gleaned from user-testing"?
Gnomies will give you chapter and verse in a heartbeat about how they know better than you how you should be using your computer. It's their whole reason for being.
Will someone who has spent time with both the Yoper (www.yoper.com) and Ubuntu distros please compare/contrast them?
I'm hunting a desktop distro, and have been living with Yoper for a few weeks now. I like it, chiefly because it is very fast on "older" hardware -- I'm submitting this using Yoper on a PIII 600MHz ultraportable laptop. You can check out www.yoper.com if you want to see why Yoper is faster than most other distros (Gentoo notwithstanding).
Switching distros, however, is painful. So I'd like more info about Ubuntu before trying it. This machine is already dual boot (windoze+Yoper), so I don't have the option to try Ubuntu by putting it into a dual-boot config on this machine.
A thinkpad 600 is not the typical modern day "proprietary" system. IBM supports (albeit in a hands off fashion) linux on these things. It has 440BX motherboard with PIIX controller, a "Neo Magic" chipset which is about the only thing unique to laptops - it's not a machine laden with "unique" hardware, proprietary or no. The one part that is "unique" (the sound system which also runs the modem) even has drivers available form the IBM website - but they're not exactly useful if the machine is too crippled to even boot.
The desktop machines I have tried were based on both S3 and Nvidia motherboards. Funny how the folks at Knoppix can make a distro that works on these machines and that's ok to mention, but to relate bad experiences with any of those that don't work properly (or at all) is simply "spreading FUD."
no, they're full of crap. mentioning things that Apple has disabled or taken out completely does not a different OS make.
BSD BSD BSD
Why run PPC linux? I run linux happily on my littel G3 imac; gentoo PPC is running about 33-45% faster then OS 10.2 was (and I'm sure as hell not shelling out for 10.3 when linux is running just fine). Also, there are more bloddy programs ported to PPC linux then there are FOR OSX natively, including some of my faviorate old school games (or there equivalents); like Gnomebots! (Not much more you can use on a 333 Imac then gnomebots, even when it is running 33-45% faster)
-Millions of Monkeys, Millions of typewriters, 6 hours of sorting through faeces encrusted pages to find: This post
try Path Finder. It's a Cocoa Finder replacement, so you can use Cocoa Gestures with it, and much better than Apple's Finder for most things.
search versiontracker.com for both Path Finder and Cocoa Gestures.
Linux however is still IMHO better as a server platform because it enables you to cut out all the crap that goes with the OSX gui. Its much easier to set-up , configure and run in headless operation. Its easier to patch and keep up to date. OSX can be more expensive to keep running if you manage to get yourself into the upgrade cycle.
I beg to differ. I run my Xserves mostly from the network through my Linux box. In my experience OS X is *way* easier to setup, patch, keep up to date -- on desktops and servers -- than Linux. If you have OS X Server (bundled with any Xserve) you can setup and upgrade any number of servers/desktops with GUI from a head node. For grid computing, the scheduling software from Apple (Xgrid) is free, easy to install and use, and will be built in the next OS version.
Regards from a humble research scientist working with Linux and OS X, and wishing to be able to get rid of the former to concentrate more on the research.
I have commented on a "somehow similar" thread just recently, when someone was asking about migration from Windows to MacOSX, and I replied that I have - in fact - migrated from Linux to MacOSX. And here is why: I am not as much of a *nix geek, as a network person, and I NEED all my tools, and I do NOT need to fool around with systems, to make them work. Having said that - after years of carrying around various versions of Linux, installed on various versions of Toshiba and IBM laptops, with all sorts of sniffers and security tools, I have decided to give one day a try to an iBook, with OSX 10.3.5 (where I am writing this email from).
... I have installed fink, the development tools from Apple, and I started porting my tools from Linux, and even installing some that never worked before properly (were "crippled") ... after six months of using the iBook, and with ABSOLUTELY NO problems in working with anything, I left Linux where it is best fit: on my servers. And I have never looked back at my i386 laptops, since - I actually turned around just recently, to start playing with *BSD on those ... but that is another issue.
...
So
Papi
== With enough Will Power, one could move mountains. With enough Brains, one would just leave them where they are ==
I didn't say any of that wasn't possible on Linux - any you know I haven't been using Linux for years! Maybe I'll throw the Live-CD in and re-familiarize myself.
8 &c id=10642352
However a lot of those things are significantly more elegant on OS X. A lot more needs to be worked on, as well. How about 3D acceleration on PPC-Linux?
The post you responded to was directed at the poster who had claimed "I find distros like Ubuntu as easy to use and install on PPC as Mac OS X." I find that claim to be false. Darwin is probably a bit of a change for a Linux centric person. If you are familiar with other BSDs, it's a pretty small adjustment. As far as the rest, I have fully accelerated X11, I can print anything to a PDF (or capture one from anywhere), apply and create PDF filters easily (vector NOT raster based), get most essential Free software (including the latest KDE and Gnome 2) and importantly play Spaceward Ho 5. I could go on (as I said before).
I had used Linux for years and years and on and off exclusively. Then I discovered FreeBSD, and I used that for a few years. If I did have dual boot setups, they were for audio and games.
Then I got a Mac. I found no reason to maintain two BSD boxes. I find Gnome and KDE to be largely irrelevant at this stage. I'm sure that if I was compelled to I could do many of the things I do on the Mac on Linux, but the converse is not true at all.
I'm not trying to crap on Ubuntu PPC, I just think that for most users with modern Macs (which can run OS X) it's masochism to run it!
http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12728
If you don't know where the BSD Free Software came from, look toward USL v. BSDi. OS X's lineage traces directly back toward ATT Unix through several 'bloodlines'.
I suppose someone who can't see the worth in moving from PPC to amd64 would think that that was a "stupid question". You are a buffoon, and buying new stuff is awesome.
--Colin
I'm pretty new to running linux at home. I've tried Mandrake on my laptop and didn't really like it. :-)
After installing Ubuntu last night I gotta say I'm hooked. For the first time I upgraded my kernel to 686 architecture and installed ndiswrapper to get my wireless PCMCIA card working.
Installing the new kernel and ndiswrapper packages was a breeze. So far the toughest part of setting up Ubuntu was the initial hard drive partitioning. If you don't let it format your entire disk automatically, you have to know exactly what partitions you want and what file systems to put on each. I actually used my old Mandrake install CD to handle that part, then used Ubuntu as my actual install!
Do you people know what insightful means??? There is no insight to this. It's informative if anything but even that's debatable.
Previous versions of Virtual PC could run most Linux distros. MS has since bought the product from Connectix and released a new version. Im not certain in Linux is still supported.
You can get Gnome 2.8 packages for Mandrake here.
I'm running them on Mandrake Cooker (development), and it's pretty nice. I'm reasonably sure Cooker is still identical to Official at the moment until all releases are finalized, so it should install fine. You can even set it up with the software sources manager.
And now let me criple a quote of yours: ..ideology on its users?"
"What sort of fucked up world do we live in when an OS tries to force...
Hint: User Interfaces always do. Except you code them all yourself
Come over it, it is (or rather was) a Default-Theme. You don't like it, you change it.
To the picture itself:
It's very open minded.
It shows naked people, three of them, one of them colored and they are fare from looking horny or or being ashamed of being naked or even looking erotic.
This constellation provokes, it provokes the dyed-in-the-wool intolerantly prude.
We are all born naked; and then we are educated that we have to be ashamed of being naked, we are expected to scream and look embarrassed if seen by others (except we now them good enough to fuck them -> hence the stupid association: Naked -> Fucking).
And don't you dare to do away with those unnatural and stupid rules!
Ubuntu dared, the outcome can be seen here, it's really sad and it was far to well predictable.
All: think about it (especially identity0) and only think about it.
Do NOT answer, because an answer will taint your thoughts with the additional thoughts about how your answer will be percieved by others.
Myself, my reason and my opinion:
Yes, I would leave this picture on the Background of my Desk (even at work as long as there are no rules that forbid it [hopefully i will never have to work in such a company]). Maybe I would change it after i have made myself familiar with the new system and started to customize it.
This Picture carries a message and this message is a beautiful one. As soon as we all reach a point where society does no longer object to this message, we live in better place. Theses three people (peacefully) live together with no artificial restraints, care for one another and have no racial prejudices.
They are really more than cave men with suits.
snafu,
Drawoc Soumynona
PS: If you must comment on "Myself, my reason and my opinion:".
Staying on the PPC is awesome. AltiVec is awesome.
Not everyone is a consumerist bitch. There is a bleeding edge where no consumer ventures.
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Now, what do you mean "set it up with the software sources manager?" There is no install script and those "uncooked" RPMs are a nightmare of dependancies. URPMI worked alright, but it was still a long and arduous install process. If you know a method of installing a reliable desktop from these packages, please provide some details.
I think the directory is still named 2.7, because that's what was there originally and they didn't want to break any links. It's all labelled 2.8 now, and updates a few times a week.
s chk/Man drake/gnome2.7
I added to it to the Software Media Manager (although you can do this at the command line as well), as site:
http://wwwra.informatik.uni-rostock.de/~wa
with index:
hdlist.cz
Then I did:
urpmi.udpate -a
urpmi --auto-select
And everything went fine, just fine. I have cooker main, contrib, and plf set up as sources as well. There's a couple of things in the gnome control centre that don't show up, but nothing is crashy or messed up. And considering how long I've been running cooker now, that's impressive.
So, would it be permissible for me to set up a Linux/OS X dual-boot installation on my Mac?
Would that then make everybody happy!?
Linux is better than Mac OS X
OS X is better than Linux
My flavor of Linux is better than yours
My flavor of Linux is better than Ubuntu
Ubuntu is distributing free pr0n wallpapers
KDE vs. Gnome
I think that covers it. Does anyone actually have anything informative to say about Ubuntu distro itself?
[my apologies to the twenty-odd posters that have actually done so - this isn't intended for you]
I'm quite sure there is an Ubuntu packagae for im-ja, possibly in "universe" (I don't use Ubuntu myself).
Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
oooooh that is yuukkky. Who on Earth came up with that image ?
this is an image more for beneton advert. It's too yukky and puke enducing in this context. It is just tooooooooooo much.
Most geeks aren't attractive; the people in the Ubuntu images are attractive; geeks hate/fear/envy attractive people. Simple as that.
See? And that's where it fails. It doesnt work out of the box.
I don't want to start fucking around after I'm finally done with the installation just to get my system to a level I can use it.
There are two rules for success:
1. Never tell everything you know.