Nintendo's Lawsuits Aided by Fans

Not surprising really... by tekiegreg · 2004-11-11 17:19 · Score: 4, Insightful

Nintendo probably has a more loyal fan base at this time. Rather than the Record Industry pain in the butt Sony, or the Borgish I could bash them forever Microsoft. What harm has Nintendo really done to people other than sue the occasional Warez site distributing old Nintendo ROMS? People get cheap crap from these imitation game consoles, and see a Nintendo piracy hotline somewehere infuriated they give them a call...

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...in bed

Re:Not surprising really... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 17:25 · Score: 2, Funny

Well there was the price fixing thing but that took places about 15 years ago. Recently they haven't done anything that bad except for unleashing the Virtual Boy upon the world.
Re:Not surprising really... by subsonic · 2004-11-11 17:26 · Score: 3, Interesting

Well, if you look at their history, while they essentially resurrected the video games market, they also severely limited the game developers. In fact, it is this behavior that eventually led to their own fall.
Indeed, Nintendo had a grip on home consoles in the 80s that would make Microsoft weep. Granted a grasp that was finally loosened by numerous law suits.
A more loyal fanbase? certainly, but only at the cost of so many million more PS2s and Xboxes.
Re:Not surprising really... by LiquidCoooled · 2004-11-11 17:31 · Score: 5, Insightful

I think if a market stall appeared selling dodgy copies of movies and albums, then I would also do something about it.

I have always been totally two faced about things like this. If no money is exchanged and its not being used commercially, then I don't see a problem. However, once people actually begin using actual cash, it DOES start to divert money from the real content providers, whoever they may be.

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liqbase :: faster than paper
Re:Not surprising really... by bedouin · 2004-11-11 18:05 · Score: 1

What harm has Nintendo really done to people other than sue the occasional Warez site distributing old Nintendo ROMS?

Well, they had a licensing program in the 80s that forbade any third-party manufacture to release the same game for Master System if it was released for NES in the US. The result? The Master System didn't do too well in America. Not to mention their battles with Tengen.
Re:Not surprising really... by tekiegreg · 2004-11-11 18:09 · Score: 1

Well...I'm implicating more towards the end-users of Nintendo product. Third party cartridge manufacturer lawsuits fall on a slightly lesser scale of evil and are generally not as noticeable by the general public. The perception in the public eyes is what matters to fan loyalty.

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...in bed
Re:Not surprising really... by arivanov · 2004-11-11 20:00 · Score: 1

Seconded.

They are one of the few companies that have been nailed by the EU competition commission for deliberate and blatant flaunting of the EU open market laws. In fact they hold the title for the biggest fine payed in the computer industry (all higher fines are in the construction or pharmaceuticals). Of course, it may yet be eclipsed by Microsoft if the commission will manage to go all the way with that one (as the new commissioner has been known to be a rabid Bill fan I have serious doubts here).

--
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Re:Not surprising really... by SetupWeasel · 2004-11-11 20:06 · Score: 1

Nintendo isn't Atari here. Sure they don't have the dominance that they once had in the home console market, but they still are a thriving company.

Their past dealings with developers may have been shakey, and a lack of third party games may have cost them some customers, but they have always been good to their customers. They make state of the art, reasonably priced systems that don't break. They always support their systems unlike Sega.

And as of E3 there were more GameCubes sold than Xboxes. I'm tired of people treating them like they are dead.
Re:Not surprising really... by CAIMLAS · 2004-11-11 20:06 · Score: 4, Funny

DEAR GOD, I have NO idea what you just said.

1) Learn English
2) Post to slashdot
3) ???
4) Don't look like a sodding idiot

How in the world did you get modded up?

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~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Re:Not surprising really... by aweraw · 2004-11-11 20:19 · Score: 1

yes... punctuation is a wonderful thing.

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5468652047616D65
Re:Not surprising really... by MMaestro · 2004-11-11 20:36 · Score: 1

True but you have to consider the video game market at the time. In the 80's when Nintendo was THE company, video games were still fledging little things in comparison to today's standards (this was still when PC developers were 1-man developing teams working in basements). If Nintendo tried doing what Sony is doing with the PS2, do you think they would've succeeded? (Sony's 'flood the market with tons of crappy games and let the market decide' method takes up a lot of shelf spaces...) This is pre-internet (for the most part) as well so...
Re:Not surprising really... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 23:53 · Score: 0

Oh, don't mind him, he's from Barcelona.
Re:Not surprising really... by John_Booty · 2004-11-12 01:13 · Score: 1

I think if a market stall appeared selling dodgy copies of movies and albums, then I would also do something about it. I have always been totally two faced about things like this. If no money is exchanged and its not being used commercially, then I don't see a problem. However, once people actually begin using actual cash, it DOES start to divert money from the real content providers, whoever they may be. Yes I make mistakes. Don't we all?

I hate to make a "me too" post, but that's how I feel as well. To me, a guy who downloads something for free probably had no intention of paying for it in the first place. The legitimate company probably isn't losing out on a potential sale, so no money is "lost". And nobody's getting rich off of anybody else's work.

On the other hand, somebody who makes a trip to the mall and forks over actual cash for a bootleg game very well might have paid for a legit game. I feel like the legit companies did indeed miss out on a sale in those cases.

--

OtakuBooty.com: Smart, funny, sexy nerds.
Re:Not surprising really... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 01:21 · Score: 0

Nintendo fell? I mean, n64 profits were not as good as they predicted, but fell?

Last I checked, that had a billion in cash in the bank, and little debt, and are still pulling in a hefty profit from their gaming initiative.
Re:Not surprising really... by Megane · 2004-11-12 01:53 · Score: 1

What the hell? There's a big difference here. The **AA are going against personal copying and sharing. This is outright blatant commercial piracy. I'm just surprised it took them this long to do something, since they've been around for a few years so far, and are being sold openly in many shopping malls. Hell, they were even sold on QVC a while back.

--
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
Re:Not surprising really... by Zangief · 2004-11-12 02:29 · Score: 1

You can't blame them, because the extreme freedom that had developers for the atari and its kin, led to an infinite amount of bad titles, which almost killed the industry.

They came in with the right business model. If not for nintendo, the industry would have stalled for a few years, and probably we would be expecting Quake 1 for november 15.
Re:Not surprising really... by Minwee · 2004-11-12 02:32 · Score: 1

Perhaps you should take a trip to Manhattan then. People on the street are selling very authentic looking VHS copies of movies which haven't been released to video yet.

Usually their entire "storefront" is a small case that can be easily picked up if they need to run somewhere, but I haven't seen anybody ever get busted for it.
Re:Not surprising really... by Phisbut · 2004-11-12 02:49 · Score: 1

And as of E3 there were more GameCubes sold than Xboxes. I'm tired of people treating them like they are dead.
Yep, and year after year, Nintendo sells more and more consoles, yet the Sony/Microsoft fanboys keep saying it's dead.
Last year, Nintendo sold more consoles than either Sony or Microsoft during the holiday period, which is one of the most important period financially for game companies (and we're not even talking about the GBA here...). I'm a Nintendo fanboy and I'm proud of it, but I also respect Sony and Microsoft for what they do. Sony's and Microsoft's fanboys seem to have a hard time respecting Nintendo though. That's sad.

--
After 3 days without programming, life becomes meaningless
- The Tao of Programming
Re:Not surprising really... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 03:04 · Score: 0

How in the world did you get modded up?

A secret weapon called frost pist, mods love it!
Re:Not surprising really... by blighter · 2004-11-12 03:20 · Score: 1

Actually those folks have mostly switched from VHS to DVD now.
And I saw the one who used to sell on the corner near my office get busted a few months ago and nobody's come to reclaim her spot.
In truth, while I feel the busting was absolutely the right thing to do, I felt sorry for the girl herself. She seemed to be a very recent immigrant with no concept that what she was doing was wrong.
Re:Not surprising really... by TheCarp · 2004-11-12 03:23 · Score: 2, Interesting

The thing that gets me, ive seen these and almost bought one. Now I wish I had.

Counterfit or not, it was a great idea! A nintendo the size of a controller that had all those old games loaded on it. Good product, its really too bad that the legitimate companies like nintendo didn't come up with the idea themselves. It would be a great way to give people a product that they would think is really cool and buy (there would be no issue here if nobody was buying them, the counterfiters would just go out of buisness on their own).

So instead of using their old products to make a little more cash by giving people a cool new toy, they spend money going after the people who are doing it.

-Steve

--
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
Re:Not surprising really... by poot_rootbeer · 2004-11-12 05:21 · Score: 1

In fact, it is this behavior that eventually led to their own fall.

What fall is this? Nintendo is still the undisputed champion of the portable market, and still highly profitable in the home console market even if they no longer lead in terms of number of consoles sold.
Re:Not surprising really... by scot4875 · 2004-11-12 08:50 · Score: 1

So instead of using their old products to make a little more cash by giving people a cool new toy

You mean like all of the Nintendo re-releases on the GBA? Like Metroid: Zero Mission? The Zelda bonus discs? The emulated games you could play in Animal Crossing? The emulated bonus games packed in with some games? (e.g. Metroid in Metroid Prime)

These are precisely why Nintendo *is* going after shady companies that violate their copyrights. They want to be able to a) sell their old games to you or b) use their old games as a bonus feature in a new game.

Are they going to give you a controller that has every one of their games on it for 40 bucks? Of course not -- the market has proven that they can make more money this way.

--Jeremy

--
Jesus was a liberal
Re:Not surprising really... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 09:45 · Score: 0

http://www.gamespot.com/n64/news/news_6083370.html
Re:Not surprising really... by Bitmanhome · 2004-11-12 11:16 · Score: 1

Don't forget, everything's funnier when you append "in bed".

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Not that this wasn't entirely predictable.
Re:Not surprising really... by drinkypoo · 2004-11-13 04:09 · Score: 1

Counterfit or not, it was a great idea! A nintendo the size of a controller that had all those old games loaded on it. Good product, its really too bad that the legitimate companies like nintendo didn't come up with the idea themselves.

The problem is not that they couldn't come up with the idea themselves. The problem, and the one that makes it pointless for them to come up with the idea, is the price. The Atari Flashback costs forty or fifty bucks and it's from the days when a pixel element could be measured with sufficient accuracy using a ruler. Some of these pirated Nintendo systems have over a hundred games in them, by these standards they'd cost hundreds of dollars. These companies have inflated ideas of what their old IP is worth.

It is very interesting, however, because it lets you know what hardware is actually worth. In order for a complete system with a hundred games, a light gun, and a second controller to be worth selling for ten bucks, it can't possibly cost more than five dollars to make, and good business practice dictates that you should be making goods for one tenth of their eventual retail price. I doubt they have that much margin on these, they tend to be sold with very few steps in between manufacturer and retailer, which is why you so commonly find them at flea markets. Personally, I'm going on a mission to buy as many of these things as possible before they get cracked down on.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:Not surprising really... by drinkypoo · 2004-11-13 04:13 · Score: 1

Nintendo singlehandedly resurrected the video game market after the fall of the Atari 2600 by bringing a system with near-perfect arcade conversions (Super Mario Bros. and Donkey Kong spring to mind instantly) and, more importantly, bundling it with a "robot" toy which was a strategy they used to get their system into catalogs like Montgomery Ward's, because while no one was interested in selling video games, robots were getting big and everyone wanted a new robot toy.

They fell from their position of ultimate grace through their Hubris. Sega had in many ways a more powerful system, both the NES competitor (SMS) and the SNES competitor (Genesis) although I suspect that the SNES is overall more powerful than the Genesis, what with its graphics manipulation engine that does scaling and rotation. Then they decided to screw Sony around on licensing agreements and the Playstation was born (as a stand alone device anyway) and it was the end of Nintendo's dominance over the gaming industry.

They do still control the handheld space, but that's the last place where they are the undisputed masters, and it's coming under dispute now with Sony's upcoming PSP release. Unfortunately the only other major player in console games today is Microsoft and I have no faith in them being able to produce their own handheld.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"

Dirty stinking rats! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 17:21 · Score: 0, Funny

So that's who shut my stand down...

Something you won't see... by discontinuity · 2004-11-11 17:21 · Score: 5, Insightful

Music fans reporting file sharers.

Re:Something you won't see... by Kogase · 2004-11-11 17:43 · Score: 1

When a new carbon copy "artist" becomes the new fad every year, and old ones are forgotten, you don't see people developing an affinity for them as they do for a company like Nintendo, who has been a large part of many people's lives from cradle to... suit.
Re:Something you won't see... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 17:47 · Score: 0

if i could make some bank on it, i'd be reporting "acquaintances" left and right.
Re:Something you won't see... by BrianGa · 2004-11-11 17:48 · Score: 3, Insightful

Actually, artists like The Grateful Dead, Phish, and John Mayer have created very large fan bases in part because they ALLOW file sharing.
These artists are generous enough to allow (and encourage) fans to trade and share all live recordings. Because of this, loyalists are very willing to report people selling/trading copyrighted material.
Re:Something you won't see... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 18:00 · Score: 0

John Mayer allows file sharing? Does he provide authorized downloads somewhere? I love his music. I hear so many of my thoughts in his lyrics. "No Such Thing" probably describes my 20's more accurately than anything else could. Regardless of whether he provides the downloads himself or not, I think I'll send him $50 just for speaking my mind.
Re:Something you won't see... by LoadWB · 2004-11-11 18:09 · Score: 4, Insightful

That's because sharing music and movies cannot duplicate the experience of the genuine article. The only way to do that is to produce exact copies of the original CD or DVD, but such copies are a rarity on the P2P networks.

When you buy a ticket to a theater, or you buy the DVD to watch on your system at home, you are getting a specific experience. Same with CDs. These copies you download, even really good screners, just cannot compare to the original. The compression makes movies look blocky and grainy, and music sound more tin-canny.

But the majority of these things being reported are exact copies of the original ROMs. You then take them and connect them to a TV or monitor, just like the original. Ergo, the experience has now been duplicated, and hence stolen.

There was a site which allowed you to legally purchase ROMs, but I cannot remember what it was (or maybe still is.) Everybody got caught up in the dot-com fever of "everything on the Internet should be free," which then translated to "everything which CAN be put on the Internet should be free." This just is not so, and should not be so. And to hell with the law, the issue is that of ethics and morals (and we often find the law conflicting with the later two.)

As I have stated plenty of times before, I download movies (I even made a shirt which says so which I wear to the theater,) and I download music. If the preview is good enough, I will buy a ticket or the DVD. If it sucks, then I have lost nothing but time and do not have to try to return this unpleasing product -- which cannot be done anyway.

ROM images, and now XBox rips and the like, are a completely different story. There just is no way to get a reduced quality copy of these -- you get the real deal, the genuine article, the real action and feel of the original game, even if it is Tinky Winky replacing Mario. And this should not be free, and should not be profited from by anyone other than the original producer, not unscrupulous scum that produce the clones.

What has been happening now is that because of the freebie revolution many companies are realizing that the market which they abandoned years ago is still viable. We said "if you won't give us what we want, then we will take it." So, now they are giving us (albeit rather highly priced... $20 for a single "classic" retro!) what we wanted, and in return they are telling us to stop giving away their swag. Seems a reasonable compromise to me.

Even parts of the music industry has conceded to this new medium by offering legally licensed, lower quality downloadable music. But even that is encumbered by damnedable rights management. Sure, DRM is really all about the Evil Corp, Inc. controlling what we do, but we do not have a leg to stand on in the fight against it because time and time again, the majority of file traders have proven themselves not trustworthy -- and that affects us all.

So, coming full circle, if we report Abdul, Sheehaba, Big Tony, and Mr. Earl for profiting on illegitimately gained product which gives the exact same experience as the original, then we are saying "hey, your argument that all we want to do is steal is wrong."
Re:Something you won't see... by krymsin01 · 2004-11-11 18:11 · Score: 1

Easy, just get your friends to start stealing cars. "It'll be like Grand Theft Auto!" Then report them for the $25,000 us cash reward.

--
stuff
Re:Something you won't see... by cgenman · 2004-11-11 18:12 · Score: 2, Insightful

You won't see game fans reporting file sharers either. We're talking about people actually selling and profiting from these games. I'm sure music fans get upset by people selling illegal copies of Red Hot Chili Peppers albums too.

--
The ______ Agenda
Re:Something you won't see... by kgbspy · 2004-11-11 18:23 · Score: 1

"Gerry Garcia supports file sharing from beyond the grave" - now that's a headline I'd like to see!

In all seriousness, you can add Brian Jonestown Massacre to that list - they have close to their entire back catalogue (songs, videos, live recordings, interviews, etc) available for download from their official site.

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Re:Something you won't see... by garbletext · 2004-11-11 18:36 · Score: 2, Interesting

The only way to do that is to produce exact copies of the original CD or DVD, but such copies are a rarity on the P2P networks.

I disagree. Exact DVD copies are all over Emule and Bittorrent. Check out Suprnova. Right now there are two dvd iso torrents on the front page, and countless more on the movies page. It's becoming feasable to send uncompressed DVDs around the internet. Granted this cannot be done with movies that are newly out, but it's pretty scary fron the movie industry's viewpoint that even a casual pirate can reproduce exactly what they're selling - for free.
Re:Something you won't see... by TCM · 2004-11-11 18:46 · Score: 1

That's because sharing music and movies cannot duplicate the experience of the genuine article. The only way to do that is to produce exact copies of the original CD or DVD, but such copies are a rarity on the P2P networks.

Not at all. Offset-corrected, accurately ripped and losslessly encoded CD releases aren't rare at all. They are on the rise.

--
Of course it runs NetBSD. BTC: 1NT7QvbetmANwaMzhpVL6
Re:Something you won't see... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 19:25 · Score: 0

if your talking about the complete experence, of downloading a rom and playing via an emulator I would hardly compare that to the experience of playing game on a real system. On the other hand if your talking about bootlegged dvd copies, etc. well the policy I've always gone by don't by it and don't support it. I guess I'm thinking it in terms of the freeloader problem, where if everyone acts rationally for the communial goal, then the system won't be abused. As in freeloaders(pple who choose to download the rom illegally) cause a burden to those who acquire it legally (in the form of higher prices possible inclusion of more annoying DRM schemes, etc). But then again that's assuming the people of the world are rational ;-)
Re:Something you won't see... by lou2ser · 2004-11-11 19:38 · Score: 5, Informative

FYI: The site where you can legally purchase roms is http://www.starroms.com/

Not much there, but its about you're only bet for legit emulation on a computer.
Re:Something you won't see... by LoadWB · 2004-11-11 19:41 · Score: 1

"Exact DVD copies are all over Emule and Bittorrent."

Guess I've been looking in all the wrong places ;)
Re:Something you won't see... by BrianGa · 2004-11-11 20:26 · Score: 1

Sure does. Fan recordings are available at a number of 'net locations, such as:
http://bt.etree.org/?search=&cat=92
http://www.starwoodevents.com/forums/forumdisplay. php?f=8
http://tracker.score1more4me.com/browse.php

Additionally, officially-released soundboard recordings are available on iTunes.
Re:Something you won't see... by mog007 · 2004-11-11 20:55 · Score: 1

There was an article on /. a few weeks ago about a guy that successfully defended himself against the RIAA for infringing on selling live recordings. The judge rules in his favor, because under current copyright laws live recordings have no defined date that sticks them in the public domain. Counter to the Constitution.

--
Learn something new.
Re:Something you won't see... by mongbot · 2004-11-11 21:27 · Score: 4, Interesting

Sorry, you're wrong about CDs. It's rare that someone can discern the difference between a well-encoded 192kbps MP3 and the original CD version. If you doubt me, I challenge you to take a blind hearing test. And many networks have lossless compressed audio files, such as FLAC.

The real reason people don't blow the whistle on music sharing is because CDs are overpriced due to the RIAA oligopoly.
Re:Something you won't see... by Zorilla · 2004-11-11 22:45 · Score: 1

A lot of those DVD "replicas" are a bit deceptive. Since most are dual-layer, this means most are reencoded down to fit into 4.7 GB and have a bit of quality lost, but just enough not to really tell on a SDTV set (although I can tell). Maybe the price drop of dual layer blank discs will eventually remedy this. I have seen 9 GB DVDs availible, although very few.

--

It would be cool if it didn't suck.
Re:Something you won't see... by dabigpaybackski · 2004-11-12 00:02 · Score: 1

Hmmm, now it's all coming together. Up until now, I couldn't understand what those two Italian guys who sold me the hot Gamecube were talking about when they said they "didn't like the direction the company was moving in."

--
"OH SHIT, THERE'S A HORSE IN THE HOSPITAL!"
Re:Something you won't see... by Thaelon · 2004-11-12 00:45 · Score: 0, Flamebait

Ergo, the experience has now been duplicated, and hence stolen.

Once again, copyright infringement and/or illegally downloading movies is not stealing. Stealing involves physical goods. Taking a physical CD from a music store is stealing. Downloading a cd you don't own not stealing.

Stop believing what the RIAA/MPAA wants you to believe.

--
Question everything
Re:Something you won't see... by Firehawke · 2004-11-12 00:49 · Score: 2, Insightful

That's it exactly. The old-school pirate mentality was "Give this out for free, but don't sell it." and it still is there to a large extent-- freeloading is one thing, and profiting from someone else's work is an entirely different thing under this mindset.

Doesn't make the former any less legal under the law, but we're talking about human reactions here anyway.
Re:Something you won't see... by mangu · 2004-11-12 00:52 · Score: 1

the experience has now been duplicated, and hence stolen

the issue is that of ethics and morals

I think you are wrong in the first assertion and right in the second. The issue is one of ethics and morals, but the practical implication of ethics must follow the times. Duplicating is *not* stealing, they aren't even covered by the same code of laws. Stealing is a criminal offense, copyright violation is a civil violation, at least in all places I know of.

The funny thing is that IP owners want us to believe that the "internet" is something quite different from the real world when it comes to issuing patents, but they also seem to wish that the same laws that apply to stealing a car in the real world were applied to downloading music through the internet. That isn't a coherent argument at all.

When it comes to ethics and morals, the guiding principle should be: do not harm others. Many people feel they aren't harming anyone when they copy a work that they wouldn't spend any money to buy, under any circumstances. In that case, copyright violation might be a legal issue, but never an ethic or moral one.
Re:Something you won't see... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 01:17 · Score: 0

Many people feel they aren't harming anyone when they copy a work that they wouldn't spend any money to buy, under any circumstances. In that case, copyright violation might be a legal issue, but never an ethic or moral one.

But if we're talking about ethics here, then everybody should realize that if they gain some kind of pleasure out of what they didn't pay for, they should be inclined to give some kind of donation or whatnot proportional to how much they liked it.

In this case, most people do already do this by buying the product if they like it, but the people who have the attitude that if they can get it for free, why bother pay for it, these people are in a sence "stealing" from the creator.
Re:Something you won't see... by cluke · 2004-11-12 01:32 · Score: 1

Western society seems to have got itself into some sort of inescapable mindset, wherein appreciation can only be expressed in dollars, where it is not worth doing anything if there isn't "4. Profit!!" at the end of the line.

Surely artists create because they are driven to do so? Surely the fact that people enjoy it should be some sort of payment in itself? I'm not disputing that such people need some sort of financial incentive to free up their time to allow them to spend it creatively, but it really rags me when people like Eminem or Metallica, who are rich beyond the dreams of avarice, whine about people "stealing" their music. Maybe if you get to that stage it's time to examing your motivations behind your art - are you doing it for the cold hard cash, to massage your ego, or to bring your fans pleasure?

I download stuff. I also buy stuff. If I downloaded less, would I buy more? No. The only thing that would have me do that is if CDs and DVDs were cheaper.
Re:Something you won't see... by mangu · 2004-11-12 01:34 · Score: 2, Insightful

they should be inclined to give some kind of donation or whatnot proportional to how much they liked it.

If things are presented like that, I guess most people would agree. People do not like freeloaders.
But the media industry marketing has a strong effect to the contrary. Artists are marketed as "pop stars", that is very, very, rich people making millions from each music or film. Then the public thinks like this: first, why should I contribute to making them richer, and second, what difference would my little hard-earned money make to their millions?
Of course, for each pop star there are hundreds of other people working, but no one listens to a music or watches a movie because the third electrician did a great job. Since the whole marketing effort is directed to please the ego and the pockets of the star, people don't feel like they are harming anyone else by not paying.
Re:Something you won't see... by LoadWB · 2004-11-12 01:34 · Score: 1

"Downloading a cd you don't own not stealing."

I did not say that it is.
Re:Something you won't see... by LoadWB · 2004-11-12 01:37 · Score: 1

"Duplicating is *not* stealing"

I bend to the idea of stealing once you have exactly copied the expected experience being sold. I have absolutely no problem with the idea that these conterfeit Nintendo consoles are using stolen games, considering that the gameplay experience is, at the very least, MEANT to be identical and SOLD as being identical.
Re:Something you won't see... by Pedersen · 2004-11-12 01:53 · Score: 1

When it comes to ethics and morals, the guiding principle should be: do not harm others.

Well, unless those others are trying to harm me or my friends or my family or ... You get the point. Something I've always tried to do is come up with a coherent, universally applicable, set of morals and ethics. I think I've come up with one such possibility, though I'm not at all sure what it does to capitalism yet (still working on that aspect). If you will forgive some slightly rambling thoughts...

So, how does my system work? Simple: When we are born, we are given a chunk of time. It is the one thing that uniquely belongs to us. The time that each of us is alive truly belongs to the person who is alive. If you don't agree with that statement, the rest of my idea is bunk, so you can stop reading now. That's part 1.

Part 2 provides a method of getting the things we need: Basically, I exchange a slice of my time for something. The easiest and most common exchange is that of time for money (ie: getting paid to do a job). This allows me to get food without having to harm someone, for instance.

Part 3 provides a definition of evil: Anything which takes time from me without my consent is immoral and unethical.

So, how do these pieces tie together with copyright? I'm still not entirely sure. After all, the producer of the copyrighted material has already spent time producing it. Some of them produced it with the expectation of making money, and others produced it simply to produce it. For those who made it just to make it, no money is required. Indeed, they often give away what they can. For the others, it's a bit murkier.

If they produced for money, the question arises: How much should they get? After all, they have spent the time already. A fair amount would be, at a minimum, compensation for the time spent overall. This, though, brings up another question: What if what they produced sucks, and nobody wants it? Should they still be compensated? I'll assume no. This places a value on the produced result, somehow...

I have to admit that I'm getting confused by my own thoughts here, as it's a bit early for me to be writing such things (it's almost 9am for me). So, I'll ask anybody out there: Help me finish this? I'd definitely appreciate it.

--

GPL made simple: What was my stuff is now our stuff. If you improve our stuff, please keep it our stuff.
Re:Something you won't see... by noidentity · 2004-11-12 02:02 · Score: 1

But the majority of these things being reported are exact copies of the original ROMs. You then take them and connect them to a TV or monitor, just like the original. Ergo, the experience has now been duplicated, and hence stolen.

How did you get from "duplicated" to "stolen"? In information terms, theft is duplication combined with deletion of the original; theft must involve something removed from the owner's possession.
Re:Something you won't see... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 02:49 · Score: 0

There are a million screaming audiophiles that would say you are wrong. I would think a lot of it would have to do with the type of music being encoded and the resolution level of the system it is being played back on. I might not be able to tell the difference between the original CD on a boombox, average car stereo, or PC, but a properly setup and above average 2ch system may prove to be able to resolve differences between the two. Now a 320 sample rate is another story.

I have a couple of commercially produced MP3 CD's from Pete Namlook and all of the stuff on those discs is between 256 and 320. I would be surprised if a difference was audible. Perhaps only on the most revealing of systems, and at that point we are well in to the 5 and six figure range.
Re:Something you won't see... by Phisbut · 2004-11-12 02:59 · Score: 0, Flamebait

Stop believing what the RIAA/MPAA wants you to believe.
Simply because file-sharing doesn't involve physical goods, which means it's not theft, doesn't mean it's not piracy, and it's not any more legal than theft.
Taking a physical CD from a music store is theft. Downloading a CD you don't own is piracy.

--
After 3 days without programming, life becomes meaningless
- The Tao of Programming
Re:Something you won't see... by Phisbut · 2004-11-12 03:05 · Score: 2, Informative

Stealing involves physical goods.
If I can infiltrate your bank's computer system, substract 1000 from the number saying how much you got in your account, and add 1000 from the number saying how much I got in my account, I didn't take any physical good from you, but did I just steal from you?

--
After 3 days without programming, life becomes meaningless
- The Tao of Programming
Re:Something you won't see... by PhilipMckrack · 2004-11-12 03:14 · Score: 1

Hack into Microsoft and download some source code. See how fast you are arrested for theft.
Re:Something you won't see... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 03:17 · Score: 0

Yes artists can create with the fact that people enjoy their work being payment enough, but it's also up to the artist/creator whether they want their work given away, not you.
Re:Something you won't see... by mOdQuArK! · 2004-11-12 06:06 · Score: 1

Part 3 provides a definition of evil: Anything which takes time from me without my consent is immoral and unethical.

I don't agree with this definition. There are a lot of people who would refuse to pay any taxes at all if they were given a choice, even after being provided with a list of public services that their taxes pay for. From the viewpoint of the health of the society, it is not "evil" to force these people to pay their fair share of the services that they are being provided.

My own personal definition of an evil person: someone who gets enjoyment by hurting others in a non-consensual relationship (i.e., the victim didn't want to be hurt).
Re:Something you won't see... by StillAnonymous · 2004-11-12 06:16 · Score: 1

What? Shared copies can't duplicate the original experience? And that's a bad thing??

Here's my experiences:

Buying a CD from the local shop: $22CDN (it's an older release, and for some reason they always jack the price on stuff that isn't brand new or complete shit) plus travel time, plus tax.

Downloading the same CD in MP3 form: 10-15min of time, no $22 gouge, possibly the cover art if it was scanned, but I don't care about that shit since I never burn it as CD-AUDIO anyways. Also, not tax.

Going to a movie: I saw The Village last night. The movie was mediocre, morons all around me were talking, getting out of their seats 3 or 4 times during the show, the popcorn was overpriced and was the worst I'd had, and the theatre was about 15 degrees Celcius as well. Plus I had to find parking, which was difficult because people seem to have trouble parking between the designated painted lines and they leave no space for you. The only plus side to this experience was that it was only $2.25 to get into the show. Blah.

Downloading a movie: grab it on divx/xvid, even a 700MB rip is good quality if the source was a DVD. I get to watch it when and where I want, pause it when I want, get to relax on my couch and eat whatever I want, and nobody else to ruin it for me.

Gee, what seems like the better experience here?
Re:Something you won't see... by ATN · 2004-11-12 08:12 · Score: 0

The only problem I have with this, is that no one is profiting form these old games. Not even nintendo. When a product reaches the point that it is no longer profitable to the original owner, they shouldn't lock it away in a vault. It should automatically be considered public domain.
Re:Something you won't see... by Pedersen · 2004-11-12 09:01 · Score: 1

From the viewpoint of the health of the society, it is not "evil" to force these people to pay their fair share of the services that they are being provided.

So, you advocate taking by force from those who would not give willingly? Why? Why not simply deny them the services? After all, they are choosing not to use the same rules the rest of the society is choosing. Eject them from said society. When they wish to play by the same rules, allow them back in. And yes, I am serious. Taking by force is also known as stealing, and we don't like it when people do that to us. Why condone it (under any circumstances) when we do it to others?

--

GPL made simple: What was my stuff is now our stuff. If you improve our stuff, please keep it our stuff.
Re:Something you won't see... by mOdQuArK! · 2004-11-12 09:34 · Score: 1

So, you advocate taking by force from those who would not give willingly? Why? Why not simply deny them the services?

There are some services, like national defense, where people receive the benefit of the service just by benefit of its existence. As long as they live in a society, there is no way for them to "choose" not to receive those services and there is no way for those services to be denied to them. Also, services that someone might choose not to receive - like the fire department, emergency medical service, anti-pollution enforcement, disease control, sanitation, etc., affect the lives of the people around the non-service-receiving individuals.

If someone chooses to live in a particular society so that they can receive the benefits of living in that society, then they will be required to pay something for the common services being provided by that society. If they refuse to pay for those common services and if they can't be forced to pay for such services, then by your reasoning there is no other option other than to exile such people out of the society (which would probably also end up involving force).

Your individual-rights-trumps-all-without-force viewpoint is complete fantasy for any "real" societal structure (i.e., involving more than one person). Any situation where infinite resources do not exist will end up requiring an enforcement mechanism.
Re:Something you won't see... by ca1v1n · 2004-11-12 14:33 · Score: 1

While there's not usually a difference under the law, there *is* a huge difference in the courts. Freeloading will generally cost you no more than statutory damages in civil court. Copyright Piracy (the actual definition, not the **AA definition) as in cases like this has a tendency to result in getting the smackdown in the form of very liberal calculations of actual damages, plus punitive damages.

--
WARNING: there is a trojan on your
Re:Something you won't see... by flerchin · 2004-11-12 14:53 · Score: 0

While it is not a physical good, you obviously stole from him, because he no longer has his 1k widgets/dollars/pesos/etc. If you instead simply added 1k to your account and left his account alone, you certainly didn't steal from him. You did counterfeit money, which is what the whole FA is about, counterfeit goods.

--
--why?
Re:Something you won't see... by Splintax · 2004-11-12 15:17 · Score: 1

"The only problem I have with this, is that no one is profiting form these old games." Well.. yeah, Nintendo CAN earn money from them by including them with newer games, I suppose (look at Zelda: Wind Waker.. there was a limited edition that included a GC port of Ocarina of Time, and I went to the trouble of buying that for the game). But for the most part, you are right. I think there should be a limit on how long these games are copyrighted for, same with all computer software (although games would be most suitable.. Playing a 10-year old copy of Tyrian is still fun but I can't see why anyone would want Windows 3.1).
Re:Something you won't see... by bhtooefr · 2004-11-13 00:09 · Score: 1

Ehm...

I'd say copyright infringement and breaking and entering, but not theft.
Re:Something you won't see... by Thaelon · 2004-11-14 14:13 · Score: 1

The difference is taking 1000 from someone's account deprives them of that $1000. By downloading a song from wherever, is the original owner deprived of that song? No! That is the essence of the legal term for stealing. Depriving someone else of something. RIAA claims they're being deprived of profit, whether or not that is true is subject to proof, but as for being deprived of the music that was download, that's obviously not true.

Learn the difference between stealing and illegal copyright infringement. They are NOT one and the same.

--
Question everything
Re:Something you won't see... by Phisbut · 2004-11-15 13:29 · Score: 1

Learn the difference between stealing and illegal copyright infringement. They are NOT one and the same.
I know the difference between stealing and illegal copyright infringement, and I didn't say they were the same. I brought this example (the movement of money in a bank) to try and stop people from saying that there must be physical goods involved in order for it to be theft. Theft isn't only about physical goods.
Now, downloading stuff on the 'net isn't theft either, but when I say what it is, I get modded down as flamebait, go figure...

--
After 3 days without programming, life becomes meaningless
- The Tao of Programming

Piracy in China by thepyre · 2004-11-11 17:21 · Score: 3, Insightful

I have been living and working in China for the past year. There is a street in my city dedicated to console games and equipment. Some of the Game Cube knock-off hardware is incredible. They make the game console smaller, prettier, more see-through-ish, higher quality and cheaper. I know that piracy is the issue here, but it's interesting to see what other designers can do to improve the console.

Re:Piracy in China by MoronGames · 2004-11-11 17:50 · Score: 1

So are these pirated Chinese GameCubes running the same hardware as a Nintendo GameCube? I'm kind of interested because as I understood it GC's used fairly custom hardware.

--
hey!
Re:Piracy in China by taxevader · 2004-11-11 18:06 · Score: 5, Interesting

Umm.. I call bullshit. I have been living (and gaming) in China for 3 years, and have yet to see the product you mention above. A knock-off GC??? The hardware is so proprietary it would cost them more to make a pirated version than to sell the official one, which sells here for just a bit more than the RRP overseas (1200 RMB). If they modded an original and put it in a pretty clear case I could understand. But as far as hardware goes, the only pirated consoles available are the 8-bit NES preloaded with hundreds of games. Maybe you could post some pics of the machine you claimed to have seen? It would send shockwaves through the hacking scene, because it seems not even the hardcore hackers have ever seen one of your fabled consoles.

--
-Copyright law #69:Whenever Mickey Mouse is about to enter the public domain,copyrights get extended by 25 years.
Re:Piracy in China by thepyre · 2004-11-11 18:21 · Score: 1

Sure, I can try. Currently I am living in Ningbo, Zhejiang Province. I have lived in China for a year now and in two different cities. One was in the far north and although it was a big city, there was very little (that I could find) in the ways of console gaming. However, this city (maybe because it's close to Shanghai) has a plethora of different equipment for sale. One of the GC knock-offs that I have seen seems to boast a panasonic label. Of course, you've been living in China for 3 years, so you are familiar with the rampant piracy (of logos as well), so that may be bullshit. Who knows? I'll go check 'em out this afternoon. To be honest with you, I never really paid that much attention to them anyway, because I would rather play with a Light Bright than a GameCube. The only time I have ever really glanced at the knock-offs is when I'm buying PS2 games.
Re:Piracy in China by Wog · 2004-11-11 18:28 · Score: 5, Informative

You saw the Panasonic Q, which is perfectly legal. Take a looky at lik-sang, I think they still have them.
Re:Piracy in China by mgblst · 2004-11-11 18:40 · Score: 1

They can make is cheaper, because they don't have to pay developement costs, and for other IP.

They can make it smaller, and prettier because they can design it using new products out now, rather than having to stick to a design created years ago.
Re:Piracy in China by Guppy06 · 2004-11-11 19:24 · Score: 1

"Some of the Game Cube knock-off hardware is incredible. They make the game console smaller, prettier, more see-through-ish, higher quality and cheaper."

You're assuming their GameCubes. Counterfeit Famicoms (i. e. NES) have been designed to look like anything from a Genesis/Megadrive to a PlayStation to a Dreamcast (you open the "disc drive" cover to find a cartridge slot) in the hopes of confusing unwary shoppers. Even if those "GameCubes" you saw accepted external media (instead of "500 built-in games"), I doubt they actually read and play GCN games.
Re:Piracy in China by runderwo · 2004-11-11 20:21 · Score: 1

Some of the Game Cube knock-off hardware is incredible. They make the game console smaller, prettier, more see-through-ish, higher quality and cheaper. I know that piracy is the issue here, but it's interesting to see what other designers can do to improve the console.
Exactly why would a Gamecube knock-off console be illegal or "piracy", provided:
- It was not referred to using any of Nintendo's trademarks
- Nintendo does not have patents covering the Gamecube
- They are not using Nintendo's BIOS except as permitted by the doctrine of minimum interoperability

--
LRC, the best-read libertarian site on the web
Re:Piracy in China by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 21:19 · Score: 0

The grandparent is just ignorant - they require a working GC to gut, then you can install the actual GC hardware inside some cheap plastic shell.

But you can bet someone has tried to copy the GC entire - there is NOBODY like those filthy little chinks for stealing R&D. Even the Japanese (for whom I have much respect) in the 70's didn't come close.
Re:Piracy in China by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 21:22 · Score: 0

Nintendo does have patents covering the Gamecube.

Any competent replica GC will use Nintend logos.

No chink pirate gives a fuck about your "doctrine of interoperability".

Next stupid will-argue-obtusely-to-justify-my-actions question?
Re:Piracy in China by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 23:18 · Score: 0

Your words are lost on him.

He has been playing too much Lite Brite and ignoring one of the better consoles of the past several years. With that kind of schedule, I doubt he has time to find out what "lik-sang" even is, no less take a looky.
Re:Piracy in China by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 00:03 · Score: 0

You don't need to goto China for this:
Even TELSELL is offering the ArcadeAction which is a NES knock-off in a N64 housing for US$77.

AS SEEN ON TV clip:
http://www.telsell.com/streaming.asp?ID=ArcadeActi on

DUTCH Description and gameslist:
http://www.telsell.com/shopping.asp?CNT=NL&LAN=NED &MN=PR2750

PORTOGUESE Description and gameslist:
http://www.telsell.com/shopping.asp?CNT=POR&LAN=PO R&MN=PR2750

I've mailed Nintendo more than a year ago about this (I wanted to buy it, because I collect every Nintendo Hardware) wether it is licenced hardware.

They responded they are still investigating it.
Re:Piracy in China by liquidsin · 2004-11-12 02:35 · Score: 1

It's a very slick looking device with loads of cool features (Japanese and US cube games, all-region dvd player, vcd, mp3, plays burned discs...) but at almost $500 USD it's a little steep. I'll stick to my cube and $50 dvd player that handles mp3, wma/wmv, etc. Sure looks damn cool though.

--
do not read this line twice.
Re:Piracy in China by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 05:05 · Score: 0

http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/01/04/ 1458255&tid=127
Re:Piracy in China by Wog · 2004-11-14 16:27 · Score: 1

It *does* look cool.

But my other concern is peripherals. What if some funky thing doesn't work with the software modifications that allow it to be a DVD player?

There was also some talk, though, if it being theoretically possible to boot GC games copied onto DVD. Who cares, though, with market penetration that low... And I like to buy my console games anyhow.
Re:Piracy in China by runderwo · 2004-11-14 18:17 · Score: 1

I would justify a knockoff console solely on the basis of competition in a free market, besides the fact that it's completely legal to do so (since you didn't bother to cite a patent, I'll assume none actually exists outside your rhetoric, and see Sega v. Accolade to see how a clone console would be justified in potentially ripping parts of the BIOS).
Now if they are misrepresenting the item as a Nintendo product, I have a problem with that, because as a consumer, I am not able to make an informed decision about the quality of the item if its nature is withheld.

--
LRC, the best-read libertarian site on the web

Thats what you get when.... by SauroNlord · 2004-11-11 17:21 · Score: 2, Interesting

the corporation is loyal to their customers and treats them fairly---fan's will do their best to have everyone else support them legally. I know I do buy the CD's and games of my favourite artists/titles regardless. I had warcraft3 beta, then the release as it hit the shelves....but I still bought it.

Re:Thats what you get when.... by LilMikey · 2004-11-12 04:08 · Score: 1

Yes, Nintendo are your friends.

--
LilMikey.com... I'll stop doing it when you sto

Glad to see Nintendo doing something about this by Paska · 2004-11-11 17:21 · Score: 1, Interesting

Glad to see someone doing something about it, back when I was in high school I used to sell pirated Playstation games to my friends. I was busted by the principle when a mother found her son playing a copied porn game, none the less it was traced back to me. Sony were informed, but did that care? Nope. Life went on for me, and I continued to rip of Sony many hundreds of dollars per week at the ripe age of 14. My point is now that I am 20 years old and mature, I wish Nintendo/Sony would crack down on priates a little more, as the quality in games in my opinion has dropped a lot since the introduction of CD recorders.

Re:Glad to see Nintendo doing something about this by YOU+LIKEWISE+FAIL+IT · 2004-11-11 17:38 · Score: 0, Troll

My point is now that I am 20 years old and mature,
Ahahahahahahaha!

*pause*

Ahahahahahaha!
YLFI

--
One god, one market, one truth, one consumer.
Re:Glad to see Nintendo doing something about this by JW+Troll · 2004-11-11 17:44 · Score: 0, Flamebait

That's pathetic. You're a moron.

--
just like the humble blood clot... turboporsche@telus.net
Re:Glad to see Nintendo doing something about this by Sebastian+Jansson · 2004-11-11 17:50 · Score: 1

So you actually wish that you would have been caught and sued?
Or is it that you think it was ok then, for you to do theese kind of illegal activities, but todays youth should know better?

Also I don't think the quality of games are that closely linked to piracy, I'd guess that it is more about change in trends. Today games, at least on the pc platform, often is more about cool graphics than gameplay. And also, people of older age(well not much older) seams more fond of the kind of games that they grew up with, so that may blur your vision some.

I, for one think that there still are some great games released from time to time.
Re:Glad to see Nintendo doing something about this by jasonditz · 2004-11-11 17:57 · Score: 1

Yeah, in an ideal world Sony would've sued you and you'd still be working to pay off the settlement.
Re:Glad to see Nintendo doing something about this by korea · 2004-11-11 17:57 · Score: 2, Insightful

No offense, but now that you have gotten away with that and won't likely see any reprocussions to what you have done, do you honestly feel that you would have had the same opinion if you and your family were sued into the street when you were 14?

--
--
"pain is weakness leaving the body."
Re:Glad to see Nintendo doing something about this by TWX · 2004-11-11 18:02 · Score: 1

"...and I continued to rip of Sony many hundreds of dollars per week at the ripe age of 14. My point is now that I am 20 years old and mature..." (emphasis added)

Wow. Mature at age 20? young whippersnapper! What'll he get to my ripe old age of 24...

NOTE for the humor-impaired: This post intended to be funny.

--
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Re:Glad to see Nintendo doing something about this by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 20:23 · Score: 0

The management would like to apologize for the failure of the above joke. Those responsible have been sacked.
Re:Glad to see Nintendo doing something about this by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 20:30 · Score: 0

I was busted by the principle when a mother found her son playing a copied porn game, none the less it was traced back to me. Sony were informed, but did that care? Nope. Life went on for me, and I continued to rip of Sony many hundreds of dollars per week at the ripe age of 14.

Since you were a minor at the time, they couldn't 'throw the book at you'. Now that you are over 18, serious fines/jail time awaits commercial copyright infringers....

I wish Nintendo/Sony would crack down on priates a little more, as the quality in games in my opinion has dropped a lot since the introduction of CD recorders.

That could be fixed by using 'nonstandard CDs'. One example, if I am not mistaken, is the Nintendo Gamecube that loads CD games 'backwards' from CDs pressed that way. This makes them uncopyable by standard burners unless a geek 'reverses' the format and 'reconfigures' his burner (bios) and software appropriately--if that is possible. It would probably be easier(?) to get their hands on the actual equipment that mastered the game CD for duplication.
Re:Glad to see Nintendo doing something about this by CrackedButter · 2004-11-11 20:30 · Score: 1

But you have a point, a lot of young people think they have hit maturity but from other peoples point of view, (who are older) they havn't. Declaring that you have hit this new level of self restraint is a sign itself that you are infact not mature.

--
Jonathanjk.com
Re:Glad to see Nintendo doing something about this by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 23:22 · Score: 0

My point is now that I am 20 years old and mature,

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

oh that's a good one.

call us when you hit 30.
Re:Glad to see Nintendo doing something about this by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 01:37 · Score: 0

Maybe you should go back to school and finish up english class and learn how to fucking spell.

Probably the biggest... by Locky · 2004-11-11 17:22 · Score: 4, Informative

I'm convinced that as a brandname, Nintendo has the most loyal following of any corporation in existence today.

This is a multinational company that can sustain profitability by selling ONLY to their fans.

Re:Probably the biggest... by MrLint · 2004-11-11 17:30 · Score: 3, Insightful

so the cult of mac gets knocked out of first place. :)
Re:Probably the biggest... by FlipmodePlaya · 2004-11-11 17:33 · Score: 1

I'm not sure how you could prove or disprove that statement, but I think there are certain subjective evidences all would agree upon. I mean, have you never seen someone that isn't a hardcore Nintendo fanboy playing a GBA? I'm sure. Loyal fanbase or not, their products still appeal to the mass market...
Re:Probably the biggest... by jerkychew · 2004-11-11 17:54 · Score: 1

Perhaps you've never heard of Apple?
Re:Probably the biggest... by BTWR · 2004-11-11 18:07 · Score: 2, Insightful

so the cult of mac gets knocked out of first place. :)
The early/late 90s would prove otherwise. The dedicated Macies bought their 840AV's and Power Machintosh's, but Apple was SERIOUSLY stuggling until Jobs came in and saved them with brilliancy-after-brilliancy (iMac, revilalized laptop division, iPod, iTunes music store, Mac Stores) in an effort to win new customers.
The parent correctly states that, unlike apple, nintendo can stay profitable with only their main hardcore customer base. Case in point: the GameCube, hardly a smash, is still enourmously successful: Nintendo has been profitable for 11 of the 12 quarters of it's existence. Yes, this includes GBA sales, but big N is known (at least AFAIK) that it sells each console unit at a profit.
Re:Probably the biggest... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 18:34 · Score: 0

Pfeh... The 90's were great to the Mac--those years gained Apple a huge portion of their customers: content production. In the 90's, back say when Adobe Photoshop 4 was king, there were either Macs, or SGIs (Suns were used for production, but pretty much only by Pixar.)

'Course, SGIs cost a buttload to buy, a buttload to maintain (contracts for support, and contracts for updates--and if a CD drive went out, you'd sure wished you bought the contract), and a double buttload to upgrade.

Apple was the logical choice for most of these people--they had enough power and upgradibility to hold the stay (we were haulin' 1GB files at our graphics shop in Photoshop with '94-'95 era Macs, with huge RAIDs, and PCs didn't have a hope, frankly--partly due to hardware, mostly due to software) the architecture was capable of quite alot. Granted, if you NEEDED an SGI, for whatever reason you *needed* it.

Add to this the fact that Apple's constantly had a few *billion* in liquid cash, and I'd say they were hardly struggling. Creativly? Perhaps. In a business sense? Never.
Re:Probably the biggest... by AvantLegion · 2004-11-11 19:30 · Score: 0

Apple sells quality. Nintendo sold that piece of shit called the Nintendo 64, and the Nintendo fans loved them for it.
For the rest of us, it's good that they made a much better system in the GameCube, although it's still annoying how they have had their head up their ass over things like online play (which they are now making a big splash on with the DS! Better late late late than never, I guess)
Re:Probably the biggest... by S_Jamessmith · 2004-11-11 20:14 · Score: 1

Completely agee, Between Mac and Nintendo, the people who buy from these companies love the product. I for one own a GC and know I like it more than my PS2. I think the fact that Nintendo does less to try to overcharge thier customers (lower priced Hardware) and more to develop the type of games that might not get published elsewhere, puts them into a great position- I mean, did monkey ball ever come out for any other console? It couldnt have, becuase the GC is the hole for otherwise lost projects.
Re:Probably the biggest... by BTWR · 2004-11-11 20:27 · Score: 1

Yes, for the thousands of graphic artists out there, Macs were the way to go in the 90s.
But... for the millions of casual users, Macs did not hit the mainstream until the iMac. 9 And while Apple did have liquid assets, it WAS losing money in the 90s...
Re:Probably the biggest... by KDR_11k · 2004-11-11 22:00 · Score: 1

Monkey Ball is the WPE, Worst Possible Example: Sega/Sammy recently announced they're porting the game in a deluxe version to the PS2 and XBox. But you're right, that took REALLY long.

--
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Re:Probably the biggest... by kahei · 2004-11-11 22:13 · Score: 1

No way, man!

www.wacom.com

--
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
Re:Probably the biggest... by Darren+Winsper · 2004-11-12 00:06 · Score: 1

Please keep in mind the era the N64 was released in. It was competing with the Playstation, which was well entrenched by the time the N64 came out. Nintendo stuck with carts because they felt that the loading times CDs had were too high, amongst other things (piracy being too easy). OK, so it didn't destroy Sony, but it wasn't exactly a pile of crap, either. Hell, at least it had bilinear filtering :P
Re:Probably the biggest... by Fig,+formerly+A.C. · 2004-11-12 01:10 · Score: 1

Yeah, the N64 was what really got me into gaming in the first place, courtesy of Goldeneye and Mario Kart 64. Maybe the graphics weren't the best, but at least Nintendo 64 owners could actually have 3 friends. Most Playstation owners only had one friend, or even worse they had to play with themselves! Err... Wait, that came out wrong...
Anyway, IMHO, as a console device, the N64 was better. Consoles are for playing socially. If I want a single player experience with better graphics, I'll go sit in front of my PC, not my PS1 (or PS2 for that matter).

--
Murphy was an optimist.
Re:Probably the biggest... by SillyNickName4me · 2004-11-12 01:46 · Score: 1

> and if a CD drive went out, you'd sure wished you bought the contract), and a double buttload to upgrade.

Well, sicne those were oem Toshiba 3x01 scsi drive, you coudl surely replace them without paying the insane price SGI wants for them. Alternatively, IBM's 2x and 4x scsi cd drives that were used for their PS/2 machines also work on SGI hardware.

(for those who wonder, yes, those are just standard scsi cd drives, and in theory an SGI machien will also work with other drives, but if you want to be able to boot a cd for installation, only a very few specific cd drives will work, basicly the toschiba 3x01 series and some but not all oem versions of it)

Reminds me.. I called them some 2 years ago to see if there would be any possibility to buy an Irix 6.5 license for a somewhat normal price as a hobbyist. The best offer they could make me was selling the full verison for the price of the upgrade version, which was at 1200 euro at that moment.

Its too bad, I have been a big fan of their MIPS based hardware, and when you went shopping for it, it wasn't that absurdly expensive, just don't bother to ask SGI directly.
(note, I haven't dealt with them in 2 years, but the company looks like it underwent quite some changes, so this all may no longer be true)
Re:Probably the biggest... by clarkc3 · 2004-11-12 02:56 · Score: 2, Insightful

I'm pretty sure Harley Davidson has a more loyal following among their customers. As my Marketing professor used to say, "How many companies have customers willing to tattoo the brand name on their arm for no other reason than they enjoy their products"
Re:Probably the biggest... by modecx · 2004-11-12 06:17 · Score: 1

Geez, that's an inane price.

I called SGI up back probably 5 years ago. I wanted to upgrade my O2 from IRIX 6.3 to 6.5 They wanted $650 for the "educational" pricing, and they needed to verify that I was at a university. Hooooly shit. All I wanted was to be able to use gcc, and in that way casually learn some of IRIX's quirks... I was a fan of SGI and the cool stuff they've done, and I wanted to learn.

All the system libraries came with 6.5, so unless you wanted to pay out the ass for SGI's cc, you had to have 6.5. I eventually borrowed the discs from someone, and made copies... And honestly, it was painful, because I wanted to give SGI money, but there's no way a student can justify that kind of expense. I could've bought an x86 machine with a legit version of windows, and been close to affording a student version of MS Vis. C++ with that sort of money.

A company with a hostile educational policy isn't going to gain people that will use their products when they become professionals, and that company will either die, or be forced to change policy. It's not like I wasn't willing to pay a fair price--If I belived that $650 (a signifigant portion of my bank) was worth it *to me*, I wouldn't have had a problem--but that was like going out and buying Adobe Photoshop to do some casual not-for-profit graphics practice.

Honestly, I think their salesmen and executives strangled the company. There's no way you can justify pricing a 4x CD-ROM at a thousand dollars or more, when compatible consumer products that fast or faster exist for less than a tenth of the price... Even if it's got some weird firmware.

--
Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
Re:Probably the biggest... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 08:13 · Score: 0

I think that actually has more to do with the lifestyle of the biker and their appearance and social acceptance with other bikers.
Re:Probably the biggest... by SillyNickName4me · 2004-11-12 08:46 · Score: 1

Heh, I just switched to Linux on that machine.
Re:Probably the biggest... by modecx · 2004-11-12 10:02 · Score: 1

Yeah, I thought about starting down that road with the O2, but at the time they only had Linux running Indys, and even then X11 support was limited, and decided that in the end it just wasn't worth the effort--stuck with IRIX 6.3 and used whatever binarys I could find 'till I found someone with 6.5

--
Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
Re:Probably the biggest... by SillyNickName4me · 2004-11-12 10:59 · Score: 1

Yep, if you intend to run a local X server then Irix is basicly the only way to go on that hardware. Tho I did get X to work locally on Linux, its slow and buggy. I only really need remote access to the machine, and xfree with xdm/kdm/whatever works fine of course when used remotely.

Its too bad because I agree that they used to make pretty cool stuff, and it is amazing how well a now over 10 years old Indy performs still (with r5k 180mhz cpu upgrade), and that was only an entry level workstation, and Irix had some pretty interesting features (oh, and I am rather fond of xfs, but thats available with Linux as well now of course)
Re:Probably the biggest... by drinkypoo · 2004-11-13 03:53 · Score: 1

Or spend a hundred bucks (or several hundred bucks) on anything? A Harley owner I know recently "joked" that H-D stood for Hundred Dollars. Want to go buy some foot pegs? It's a benjamin. Seat bracket? Oh yeah man, it's a hundred bucks. New handlebar brackets to change the position? Naturally, it'll cost you a bill. Honda parts (for example) are priced based on their utility and cost of production. Harley-Davidson parts are priced based on how much chrome is on them.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"

testament to nintendo by terrymaster69 · 2004-11-11 17:23 · Score: 5, Insightful

Despite how often we trash the RIAA etc. for their (misguided) attempts to defend copyrights, this just proves that if you treat your customers well and produce quality products, you'll be paid back. I'da turned 'em in too. Rock on Nintendo.

Re:testament to nintendo by Geek+of+Tech · 2004-11-11 17:48 · Score: 1

>> The readiness of the State to use its violent power is all too troubling
Let's all get together and blame it on all those violent video games! Down with Nintendo!... What? Nintendo is the good guy? Long live Nintendo! Long live Nintendo.... Don't blame it on the video games!

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Stop the Slashdot effect! Don't read the articles!
Re:testament to nintendo by finkployd · 2004-11-11 18:03 · Score: 1

...so ready to call on the coercive power of the State...
...Those vast powers I referred to, having grown to frightful proportions over many years...
...The readiness of the State to use its violent power is all too troubling...

Wow, you do realize we are talking about video games here right, Mr Perspective? This is an electronics company bringing a lawsuit against people violating their copyright, not jack booted thugs keeping down the populous with violence and "the state" exercising "terrible power". Learn the difference.
Re:testament to nintendo by elhedran · 2004-11-11 18:05 · Score: 3, Insightful

Um, you really misunderstand whats going on in the concept of loyalty.

People will rat on people ripping of Nintendo because they don't want a good thing to go away. I am a Nintendo fan because they favor quality over catering to the lowest common denominator, or at least, thats my opinion. Hence I want them to stick around so there is more quality stuff for me to get. And that in turn means I want to help them deal with anything that might eat into their ability to stick around.

The world isn't black or white. It kinda annoys me when people react to anything thats pro-establishment by statements such as "use its violent power". Yes, there are problems with corporations, and even Nintendo. But that doesn't mean they are 100% pure evil and should be slain in the name of the righteous.
Re:testament to nintendo by meta-monkey · 2004-11-11 18:07 · Score: 1

Not all "coercive powers of the State" are bad. The power of the state to punish those who hurt or steal from others is good.

The readiness of the State to use its violent power is all too troubling, but even more so is the readiness of the general public to accept such use.

I agree, but you need to pick your battles. If this article were about drug users, I would agree. As it's about copyright infringement...not so much.

--
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
Re:testament to nintendo by mindless_futurist · 2004-11-11 18:08 · Score: 1

Should the company win such a lawsuit, how do you think the ruling will be enforced? By asking nicely?

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Nick
Re:testament to nintendo by mindless_futurist · 2004-11-11 18:14 · Score: 1

I'm curious. What have drug users ever done to you personally? Seriously - what? You seem happy to see them punished for something, I'm not quite clear for what.

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Nick
Re:testament to nintendo by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 18:25 · Score: 0

You read that backwards. He said he'd be upset if drug users were the ones being punished.
Re:testament to nintendo by TwistedUranium · 2004-11-11 18:41 · Score: 1

You can't ask someone nicely and have them pay society for their crime. They must pay, thit is what modern society is based on, if they refuse they are forced. Taking away the ability to enforce laws would make the corporations and "the man" more powerful then you could ever realise.
Re:testament to nintendo by meta-monkey · 2004-11-11 18:45 · Score: 1

Ummm...I am a drug user. I'm saying that if the article were about drug users being turned in by people, I'd agree that the state were abusing its powers.

--
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
Re:testament to nintendo by mindless_futurist · 2004-11-11 19:00 · Score: 1

Oh yeah... good point.

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Nick
Re:testament to nintendo by boky · 2004-11-11 21:06 · Score: 1

As an economist, I had to reply to this post.

No corporation is Evil (TM) or Good (TM). They are simply seeking Profit (TM).

Why is Microsoft giving the cheapest licences to people not running any Linux? Because it's the way to sell most of their software.

Why is Cisco helping build the Big Firewall of China? Because it brings them a lot of profit.

Why is Google such a nice company? Because, by playing nice, they appeal to a lot of people and attract customers and this means profit.

So, like it or not - profit is the key.

For example, if M$ would BELIVE (this is the key factor) they would make more money by - for example - completely opensourcing WinXP and just selling consulting and training, they would do it in a pinch and everybody would go like "Ohh, look at M$, they are so good (TM)!"

Capitalism at its best.

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boky
Re:testament to nintendo by Darren+Winsper · 2004-11-11 23:59 · Score: 1

If a person does enough things I consider immoral, I will consider them evil. The same goes for corporations. I don't care what their motivations are, I will judge them on their actions.
Re:testament to nintendo by boky · 2004-11-12 01:09 · Score: 1

That is true.

As an individual, you have that right.

For the record, I do agree with you; I just wanted to give people another point of view.

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boky

Are all those things garbage? by irving47 · 2004-11-11 17:23 · Score: 3, Interesting

I tried one at a mall about six months ago. The thing was junk. Super Mario Brothers was playing about 10% too fast.... Anyone else seen that?

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I had a sucky sig.

Re:Are all those things garbage? by thegoogler · 2004-11-11 17:34 · Score: 1

A huge amount of them are total crap, but there are some that are the same quiality or better.
Re:Are all those things garbage? by Megane · 2004-11-11 17:36 · Score: 1

Super Mario Brothers was playing about 10% too fast
So not only are they running hacked pirate ROMs, they're running hacked, pirate, PAL ROMs on NTSC hardware? I'm just surprised it took N so long to notice.

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#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
Re:Are all those things garbage? by poot_rootbeer · 2004-11-12 05:29 · Score: 2, Interesting

Yes, they are all garbage, but I personally haven't seen any that run noticeably off from the genuine article.

I wonder if the systems might be running in PAL mode internally, but hacked to output an NTSC-compatible signal. Running a system designed for 50Hz at 60Hz would result in the games being 20% too fast.

Another legally notable thing about many of the designs is that the lightguns they come with are VERY realistic looking, and almost certainly qualify as illegal imitation firearms in several states.
Re:Are all those things garbage? by drinkypoo · 2004-11-13 04:17 · Score: 1

I'm pretty sure my 100-in-1 unit (which has one of those fairly realistic-looking light guns, molded in silver and brown plastic with an orange ring around the lens) runs the light gun games in PAL. My display is a Sony monitor that's supposed to do both PAL and NTSC (I've done PAL on it before) but light gun games appear with visual distortion near the top of the display, with lines being shifted one way or another (lost sync?) The games are still playable and the light gun is accurate, remarkable in a $10 game system with a light gun and a second controller.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"

The Mall by samtihen · 2004-11-11 17:24 · Score: 1

The mall where I live has a guy selling these "game systems" at a kiosk. I always wondered how it was legal. I guess the answer is "It isn't."

Re:The Mall by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 18:15 · Score: 0

You live in a mall?
Re:The Mall by FauxReal · 2004-11-11 23:47 · Score: 1

The mall where I live has a guy selling these "game systems" at a kiosk. I always wondered how it was legal. I guess the answer is "It isn't."

It wouldn't be so bad if these guys weren't selling these things for $69.99 a pop! It plays 8 bit Nintendo ROMs and it's all built into a Super NES looking controller (fake analog stick & 2 working buttons), w/ an addition controller and lightgun addon.

I contemplated turning him in only because his profit margin must be obscenely high and he was such a punkass about pushing his system on me.

--
Deltron 3030 - Virus (music video)
Re:The Mall by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 01:11 · Score: 0

Y their much cheaper when you get them from abroad.
Re:The Mall by Dimensio · 2004-11-12 08:39 · Score: 1

In Louisville, there is a mall with one such kiosk right in front of the local GameStop (the kiosk was in front of the local EB, but they moved for some reason). Apparently Nintendo has already been out there, but apparently has declined to take action.

I heard that it was because they didn't expect the crooks to be there for very long and thus didn't think that it was worth the trouble. Now that they're sitll there, I'm tempted to give NoA a call.

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STOP MISUSING APOSTROPHES, YOU MORONS!!!

Ive done this.... by thegoogler · 2004-11-11 17:24 · Score: 5, Insightful

There was a "toys and games" shop that opened near my house, i thought nothing of it untill my friend said they were selling SNES games for $2 for any game, buy 2, get 2 free. so i headed down there. turns out they were selling counterfeit systems all the way up to the N64, and every game you could think of... I emailed nintendo, and got an amusing thank you note..

Re:Ive done this.... by LiquidCoooled · 2004-11-11 17:44 · Score: 1

post the reply you got :D

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liqbase :: faster than paper
Re:Ive done this.... by thegoogler · 2004-11-11 17:46 · Score: 1

I forgot to put that in, and then i was going to post it in THIS reply. But, i just cancelled my earthlink service... so they dumped out my account and i didnt save ti anywhere else(dumbass..)
Re:Ive done this.... by Megane · 2004-11-12 02:10 · Score: 1

What a ripoff. I can store about 400 of 'em on a 9 cent CD-R that plays on an unmodified Dreamcast. (Okay, so not all of them run at 100% speed, but still...)

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#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
Re:Ive done this.... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 09:37 · Score: 0

Eh...I just run all my GBA and GB games off of flashcarts. SO much eaisier to have 5-10 games on one cart vs switching carts for every damn game or useing a half assed emulator on a DC (but the X-Box plays quite nicely).
Re:Ive done this.... by drinkypoo · 2004-11-13 04:46 · Score: 1

Having done this myself on my Dreamcast, I am qualified to say that just about anything from SNES up will not run at full speed on the DC. However, SNES games do run at full speed on my Xbox :)

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"

Being a good company probably helps by Ambient_Developer · 2004-11-11 17:25 · Score: 5, Insightful

I probably helps that nintendo has been seen (as far as I know) as a company that has had a long long history of being a rather "good", innovative, and untainted (compared to it's counterparts). I personally like nintendo, regardless of what others say.

Re:Being a good company probably helps by matria · 2004-11-11 18:30 · Score: 1

Except for the time about 20 years ago when they got slapped down for threatening the chain retailers (there were several more besides Wal-Mart in those days) to not supply them with Nintendo systems and games for the Christmas season if they carried any other systems. At the time I was deciding whether to buy my kids Nintendo or Sega, and when this made the news I got them a Sega.
Re:Being a good company probably helps by Zangief · 2004-11-12 02:40 · Score: 1

I suppose you are posting this from a Linux machine, right?
--
Wiki de Ciencia Ficcion y Fantasia
Re:Being a good company probably helps by matria · 2004-11-12 03:40 · Score: 1

Nope. I'm not just a geek grandma, I'm a Uber-geek grandma.

Dual processor Mac G4 500 with OS X 10.3.6., with Apache/PHP/MySQL for playing with web design. After having a Mac for a couple of years, Windows and Linux both are just plain ugly. I'm saving my pennies for a new iMac.

http://www.sottwell.com

Probably looks like crap on IE/Win, but I really don't care. The world looks like crap on IE/Win. After having the Mac for a couple of years, Win looks like crap. I laughed out loud the first time I saw XP. Looks like a kindergardener's crayon drawing I'd put on my refrigerator until I could sneak it into the trash.
Re:Being a good company probably helps by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 06:42 · Score: 0

I guess you just magically forgot about the whole "emulation is illegal" line of pap they keep spewing, didn't you? How about them pumping out the same goddamned line of games over and over and over with just updated graphics? I know other consoles have some offending titles for this, but nintendo has got to be the absolue worst for this bullshit.

This is another reason I hate nintendo. They're like apple in that they somehow manage to brainwash people into being mindless cult followers who can't see anything they do or create as questionable or sub-par. Post something anywhere near critical of a nintendo product on this forum, and you're sure to get modded down by some zealot who won't even think about your position. "Must.. censor... all... anti-nintendo... posts..."
Re:Being a good company probably helps by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 06:56 · Score: 0

Looks like a kindergardener's crayon drawing I'd put on my refrigerator until I could sneak it into the trash.

Thanks a lot! These are _exactly_ the words I've been looking for for the past three years.
Re:Being a good company probably helps by matria · 2004-11-12 16:44 · Score: 1

I suspect that they put a 6-year-old in front of Windows Paint and had him design the interface.

You guys don't really get this by stratjakt · 2004-11-11 17:26 · Score: 5, Interesting

This isn't about gamecube piracy, this is about these cheesy import deals that look like N64 controllers, and plug directly into your AV jacks (like all those Atari deals), and have a bunch of old nintendo games built in.

They sell 'em everywhere, go to any flea market and you can find them. They're as flimsily built as you can imagine. There's a light gun too, for Duck Hunt.

I believe they just have an image of the old 100-in-one NES bootleg from the olden days.

Anyways, they're no doubt illegal. But we're talking about Kid Icarus and Duck Hunt, not Metroid Prime and Resident Evil Zero.

--
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!

Re:You guys don't really get this by sabernet · 2004-11-11 17:45 · Score: 1

I am quite happy to see "ethical" legal action. I believe ths will set a positive trend and I support Nintendo on being the video game good guys. And I do feel better actually buying their stuff and supporting them all the way(DS here I come)

However, not to dampen the mood, 35$+ for Donkey Kong(original) on the GBA is just plain wrong.
Re:You guys don't really get this by jesus_of_the_trailer · 2004-11-11 17:59 · Score: 1

It's not the same bootleg, but I think it is a similar one. Mainly, someone cobbled together a menu interface in 6502 assembler and wrote some game patches [seeing how 9/10ths of the "games" on these are just trainers, or level cheats]. A friend of mine had one a few years ago called a 'Mega Joy' that he got on eBay. Thing was totally ass.

I think this is good for Nintendo, because the overall quality of the games is ass, and I'd like to not see some hackjob attributed to nintendo [as I'm sure most 'joe sixpack' buyers will assume it's a licensed product].

This is a completely different thing than ROMs really, since the secondary market for original NES games doesn't ever trickle any revenue towards Nintendo... and most people share the games for the simple love of them.

Do you know how hard it is to force yourself to pay the prices that some of these games are asking for on eBay? I do... because hell, I still buy NES carts.

Most of them... I'd rather play on an emulator... since the added feature of savestates makes the games less of a pain-in-the-ass, but... I still love to have the carts around.

I even have a powerglove ;)
Re:You guys don't really get this by kgbspy · 2004-11-11 18:28 · Score: 1

Ethical legal action such as this? ;)

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Re:You guys don't really get this by Chatsubo · 2004-11-11 19:18 · Score: 2, Interesting

There is a company in South Africa selling educational "computers"... Labeled the "IntelliGameStation" (just makes you sick, doesn't it?). And it's basically a NES in a little tower case, that comes with some custom educational software in the traditional NES cartridge. I think they throw in one of those "X in 1" game carts as well.

I've always wondered if this is legal, and whether they license the tech from nintendo. From your post, it doesn't seem to be above board. Which I find surprising, seeing as they run infomercials on national TV.

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> no, yes, maybe (tagging beta)
Re:You guys don't really get this by AmaDaden · 2004-11-11 19:22 · Score: 1

Look in to that some more. As it turns out N realized that they were idiots on that one. In fact they gave away a few free games cubes to the site owner as an apology.
Re:You guys don't really get this by oberondarksoul · 2004-11-11 20:03 · Score: 1

It may be worth pointing out at this state that the Atari and Intellivision consoles-in-a-controller are both officially licensed products, and are perfectly legal. (And actually well constructed - the Atari one feels exactly like the classic 2600 joystick, and is just as resistant to damage)

--
And tomorrow the stock exchange will be the human race
Re:You guys don't really get this by spiderbiten · 2004-11-11 21:13 · Score: 1

Too well built in my opinion, I remember the little rubber sleeve on my controllers coming off. The ones on the new consoles-in-a-controller wouldn't. Was really disappointed when they didn't keep my childhood memories in tack.
Re:You guys don't really get this by Darren+Winsper · 2004-11-12 00:02 · Score: 1

What the fuck does "in tack" mean?
Re:You guys don't really get this by gblues · 2004-11-12 03:05 · Score: 1

Eh, if they're selling their own, unlicensed software and using Nintendo's hardware, they're probably OK. Any manufacturing patents on NES-era technology have long since expired, and the NES has been reverse-engineered to heck and back thanks to the emu scene.

Now if they are in fact throwing in an "X in 1" cartridge that contains licensed NES games, then THAT would be clearly illegal.

But IANAL.

Nathan
Re:You guys don't really get this by Sporkinum · 2004-11-12 03:34 · Score: 1

Power Player Video Game System III-SOLD OUT!!
$19.99

Condition: New

Warranty: 30 Days

The NEW Power Player Plus TV game console has tons of your favorite Retro Arcade Style Games Built In!!! No cartridges to ever purchase! This advanced Power Player Plus Console is great for kids to adults.

Game titles include: Contra, Aladdin 3, Arkanoid, World Soccer, King of Fighter, Tekken, WWF, Tetris 2, Super Mario, 1942, Star Force, F1 Race, Popeye, Galaza, Bomb Jack, Bird Week, Five Chess, Star Gate, Space Et., Mario Bros, Exerion, Road Fighter, Dig Dug, Twin Bee, Binary & Land, Door Door, Spartanx, Super Dynamix, Wild Gunman, Ninja 1, Arabian, Helicopter, Donkey Kong 2, Lode Runner 2, Front Line, Antartic, Sky Destroyer, Balloon Fight, Millipede, Circus Charlie, Duck Hunt, Joust, Burgertime and many many more!!

Super easy to setup. Just connect the RCA cables to the TV and power AC adapter then you are ready to play.

The Power Player game even plays on batteries so it works with almost any TV, in almost any country or even in a car!.

Power Player has lots of tons of your favorite Retro Arcade games built in (on a super large chip built in the N-64 type controller).

Package Includes: Beautiful retail box, 2 controllers, a light gun, AC power adapter and RCA cables. Colors of controllers will vary.

--
"He's lost in a 'floyd hole"
Re:You guys don't really get this by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 05:47 · Score: 0

It's 'tard speak for "intact"
Re:You guys don't really get this by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 06:54 · Score: 0

Only because they were publically chastized for their actions and realised it was a huge PR nightmare. So they bought their redemption with a few cheap trinkets.
Re:You guys don't really get this by drinkypoo · 2004-11-13 03:59 · Score: 1

I purchased one of these devices at my local flea market. The one I bought looks kind of like a game boy color with more buttons. It came with a plug-in controller that looks like an original playstation type and a cartridge with a weird sticker on it. It has a hojillion games on it, most of which are variations of the same game. They are all classic NES games and it came with a light gun so you could play the light gun games, naturally. There is a small LCD screen on it, and it has a bunch of those crappy LCD games on it, the type you find in the $3 handheld games at walgreen's. It cost me about ten bucks, well worth it :) Anyway you're right about the NES stuff, that's all it is. I have yet to see one that has anything newer than that but I eagerly await the presence of pirated SNES-compatible systems :P (Hey, Nintendo doesn't sell them any more anyway.)

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"

Yes, but if Suicide Girls ever got a hold of this by aardwolf204 · 2004-11-11 17:27 · Score: 2, Funny

IANAL, but I've read a lot of Groklaw, and from what I can understand Nintendo has never really cracked down on NES, SNES, or N64 roms, maybe it has something to do with over-the-internet, rather than in-the-shopping-malls where Joe Sixpack and Jane PonyKeg wander. At this point I deem it perfectly safe for Suicide Girls to start selling these mame-wanabees on their site.

You can put down the DMCA now...

Thank you.

--
Im dreaming ofa big bndwdth, That can resist the /.crowd.May ur days b merry & bright & may al

FIX by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 17:28 · Score: 0

wow I really killed this comment... a fix*It probably helps that nintendo has been seen (from what I know) as a company that has had a long long history of being rather "good", innovative, and untainted (compared to it's counterparts). I personally like nintendo, regardless of what others say. ~me thinks this is better

More and more common? by Tethys_was_taken · 2004-11-11 17:30 · Score: 5, Interesting

I remember that when the HL2 source code was leaked, Gabe Newell (VALVe founder) sent out a request to the HL community. It worked. Pretty soon, they managed to get a few leads and tracked down the guy who initially distributed it. Best part was, all this happened over IRC rooms when some guy started boasting about his exploits.

This is setting a very positive trend, IMO. (Besides showing that IRC is not *just* the home of the pirates and the script kiddies :) It shows that the community will back a game publisher/developer who gives them quality stuff, and is willing to pull down shitty publishers like EA.

Anyway... long story short, this is Very Good(TM). I hope this continues

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StrayByte.Net

Re:More and more common? by Antique+Geekmeister · 2004-11-12 01:10 · Score: 1

That's really strange, because I never saw an arrest, prosecution, or even a formal accusation out of Valve software.

What I saw was a a lot of lies designed to keep investors off their back: "They used an Internet Explorer bug", which is possible but unlikely. Social engineering of one of their employees or guessing a trivial password are far more likely ways into a remotely secure network. "They only got a little bit of the source code", which was a blatant lie because pirated copies of Half-Life 2 turned up in Russia with newly dubbed voices. "We'll be slightly delayed", which was another lie because it took more than another year to get the game out.

Stealing your source code is no excuse for having such a late release date, unless the game was absolutely not ready for release and you used the theft as an excuse to do the sort of complete design and security work you should have done in the first place. Given Valve's and ATI's cooking of the video results in the ATI/Nvidia video card comparisons, I don't think you can trust Valve the company's claims about anything.

The games have been good: games are not designed by corporate boards. But public press announcements, release schedules, and cooked demos are.

Rewards by dadjaka · 2004-11-11 17:30 · Score: 3, Interesting

Are they offering rewards? I can see a large industry for dobbers...

hmm by dleifelohcs · 2004-11-11 17:31 · Score: 1

Pretty sure there's at least a couple still being sold at Kiosks at my local malls. Is there something "official" I can hand them to inform them of this?

There's a good chance they don't even know.

Re:hmm by bestadvocate · 2004-11-11 19:37 · Score: 1

send them a Receipt ;-)

--
my sig
Re:hmm by drinkypoo · 2004-11-13 04:36 · Score: 1

You could just print out some copyright law and then write them a letter saying that the games are copyrighted. Then get your letter notarized and mail it to them registered with a return receipt. Or, you could just let them alone to sell their crap to unwary consumers who should really know that the buyer must beware and if you buy crap from a mall kiosk you get what you buy.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"

Weird Place for Piracy by stevemm81 · 2004-11-11 17:38 · Score: 1

I've seen this in a couple of local malls too...

Is this the first time American suburban shopping malls have been used for piracy on a large scale? Obviously you can buy knockoff CDs, etc. on the streets of New York or Hong Kong, but I didn't expect to see it in the local mall.

Re:Weird Place for Piracy by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 18:01 · Score: 0

Given what is sold there normally, it's not much of a difference.
Re:Weird Place for Piracy by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 18:14 · Score: 0

When I was a second year university student, one of the better places to shop for whitebox parts was in Sydneys Chinatown. A bunch of sellers in that area got together, and bought up shop space above a theater and rebranded it as "Technocity". It's still there today, and it's a good source for imported software, hardware, cheap RAM, etc etc.

Back then however there was also a shopfront that outright advertised in the front window that they sold pirate software ( although I can't remember the shop name ). This is quite unusual for Sydney, where we don't even have street sellers. But the best part was that they offered you 10% off any purchases if you had a student card.

Yes, I did buy something there - Blood 2: The Chosen, for A$10. Considering what it played like, I consider that Monolith got their revenge on me ( Sorry Mister Hall! ).

why the opposite copyright stance, slashdot by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 17:46 · Score: 1, Interesting

*cough* *cough*

i see this 'enforcement' as yet again an abuse of copyright law. copyright is there to promote the public interest. nintendo's interest has long since passed on these games in their original NES form. what this 'knockoff' company has done is take something that nintendo has made plenty of profits on during the day, and added a key innovation (small controller, cute packaging, gimmick, whatever) where there is a new spark. the 'pirates' are really the innovaters here, nintendos old 8 bit games should have long since passed into the public domain.

don't be so quick to defend copyrights in this case because its about a video game and not a music company

Re:why the opposite copyright stance, slashdot by dlundh · 2004-11-11 18:28 · Score: 1, Interesting

I can see why you posted anonymously.

Nintendo still sells the NES games repackaged for the GBA/GBA SP today and includes the games as extras in GameCube games such as Animal Crossing. Looks to me like not only is there public interest in these old gems, Nintendo seems to be pretty interested in them as well.

And yes, GBA/GBA SP is smaller than this "key innovation".
Re:why the opposite copyright stance, slashdot by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 23:51 · Score: 0

Well they don't need to be selling them for $69.99 each. They're probably paying $10-$15 each from some HK distro.
Re:why the opposite copyright stance, slashdot by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 07:12 · Score: 0

But it's nintendo, man! NINTENDO! If it were Sony or MS, people here wouldn't give a shit, but they've got some fetish with nintendo that causes them to adore the company and beat off all over the next zelda disc.

Here as well... by telemonster · 2004-11-11 17:46 · Score: 4, Funny

There are Kiosks here in the Virginia Beach, Virginia area as well. It looked like the games are all original NES games. This is similiar to the Atari classics self contained joystick sold thru places like Walmart? Are the Atari 2600 games licensed in those console systems?

I think it is funny that they started remaking Mr. Pac-Mac/Galaga arcade games. I guess they had to update the hardware+software since the original arcade couldn't be set to accept 50 cents per play. Bastards.

--
Southeastern Virginia REPRESENT!

Re:Here as well... by WWWWolf · 2004-11-12 02:28 · Score: 1

Are the Atari 2600 games licensed in those console systems?

In short, yes. Same goes for the Namco, C64, and other things like that that you see sold in most "reputable" stores.

I suppose some pirate manufacturer thought that these things sell well enough, and made a similar NES system, without, of course, paying much attention at licensing (or quality control, for that matter).
Re:Here as well... by protocoldroid · 2004-11-12 03:59 · Score: 1

In short, yes. Same goes for the Namco, C64, and other things like that that you see sold in most "reputable" stores. Although I see you use quotes around reputable, although a store such as wal mart may have a reputation.... I wouldn't necessarily trust their knowledge of the law because of this. As an anecdote for Wal-Mart in specific... My local Wal Mart sells a good number of spin fishing tackle items that contain lead. I know they sell more than one, but, one item in specific is a lead weighted indicator that I have bought. The catch is, lead fishing tackle (especially weights) is illegal in New York State [state.ny.us] (where I live). The more specialized local fishing tackle establishment (my local fly shop) knows the laws surrounding fishing (and probably has more concern for the effects of using lead tackle) more closely and doesn't sell a single lead item. The moral of this little comparison is: Just because a company is big and "reputable", doesn't mean that they don't ever break the law. (and as an aside: those 'classic-games-in-a-joystick' are probably legal, they sure use a lot of the atari/nintendo/etc branding, and that branding always seems to get a lot of attention from the copyright watch dogs.)

Go Nintendo! by Nossie · 2004-11-11 17:55 · Score: 4, Interesting

I think any company should have a right to enforce their own IP. I'd even support the RIAA/MPAA if they cracked down on marketstalls or websites profiteering from the distribution. Sadly they also abuse their consumers, and I think thats going too far.

Nintendo is doing nothing less than protecting its rights, and in a far more amicable way than some of the other corporations. Sure the emulation scene has been blasted by lawyers over the years. Although, considering they are still making a profit from the old games (classic handhelds etc) do you really blame them?

Systems to support this would be the Classic NES and snes converstions to the GBA

*** (I'm not suggesting constant remakes and re-releases is right either here btw ) ***

People are slating that guy in the link because he was miffed at recieving a counterfit product. I have to say I support him 100% for taking it back.

WE ALL know counterfit copies exist, some of us are even quite prepared to buy them *knowing* they are fake/stolen but not wanting to pay full price. It's a totally different story when a shop tries to sell such products and pretend they are legit.

how would you like to buy a $60,000 Rolex to find a quartz movement inside? OR a an athlon64 4000 to find its an overclocked 3800?

I think then, you might not be so jeering when it was you that had the wrong end of the stick.

Re:Go Nintendo! by Minna+Kirai · 2004-11-11 21:07 · Score: 0

how would you like to buy a $60,000 Rolex to find a quartz movement inside?

I'd be happy. Quartz watches far more accurate and reliable than mechanical ones, and the watch itself is just male jewelery. In conspicuous consumption, the fact that it looks expensive is what really matters.
Re:Go Nintendo! by Nossie · 2004-11-12 00:54 · Score: 1

If I'm led to believe correctly... a rolex watch is a watch for life... with a 'lifetime warranty'

Now I'm not sure if its the life of the watch *grins*

but unlike your brand names and current designer fashions there are still companies out there that sell more than just 'style'. Sod Nike and their $5 sneakers... Armani(sp?) and the rest of the criminals.

I'd kinda compare Rolex to Ferrari or Austin Martin... Yeah sure, you pay through the nose for a 'hand built' machine... but its still far more than a ford with a bodyshell.

What you say might work with clothes, jewellery and 70% of your 'designer' watches but your off the mark on the rolex comment...

I hate designer names with a passion.. why on earth would you buy the same thing in two stores except one has a label and one doesn't... yet there is a 600% price hike?

Reason I said about rolex... is that I know someone who that happened to.. It was a reasonably 'cheap' watch but he took it into a watchrepair place on holiday abroad and they swapped the guts for a digital one.

He only noticed when he got back home, but the insurance by Rolex covered the replacement.

I admit, that more can go wrong with a mechanical piece. Some though, may consider it art.. or a craft long since forgotten...

But I think your wrong that all mechanical watches are inaccurate... or unreliable. In 100 years time, a grandson or daughter may have a rolex ticking away in their jewelery box. Which is more than I can say for your mass manufactured quartz crap.

If I had 60k to spend on a rolex..... I'd buy a few 8-way opteron clusters>:)

This has went OT.. but hey, what doesnt on /.
Re:Go Nintendo! by Jeff+DeMaagd · 2004-11-12 01:47 · Score: 1

OR a an athlon64 4000 to find its an overclocked 3800?

That's not much of a jump (unless there's a cache difference), and a lot computer "enthusiasts" seem to do this anyway to pretend they bought a more expensive computer.

My understanding is that to make the re-marking most profitable, they use middle-to-cheapest chips and re-mark it as high as they can, say a 3000+ gets marked 4000+, again, assuming cache is the same, but maybe not many are cluefull to test this.
Re:Go Nintendo! by Nossie · 2004-11-12 05:56 · Score: 1

damn it man stop being so piccy!

if I'd said FX55 you'd have said they were stupid...
If I'd said a 3200 Barton I'm sure they would have came up with something else lol...

The point being here, your not getting what you paid for..... no matter what the price discount was...

heh :)
Re:Go Nintendo! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 07:16 · Score: 0

There's no question in this matter. A quartz crystal timer is far, Far, FAR more accurate than any mechanical watch available. We're talking many orders of magnitudes here.

There's honestly no justification to spend $60k on a friggen timepiece when an arguably 'better' one can be had for $10. So what if you break it and buy a new one every 5 years? You're still better off.

People that buy objects just for their "fashion" statement are douchebags who deserver to be parted with their money and then ridiculed.

Bleah by cbreaker · 2004-11-11 17:58 · Score: 1

"Today games, at least on the pc platform, often is more about cool graphics than gameplay."

It's been like that for as far back as the video game goes. There's always been crappy games with pretty grapics, even if at the time pretty meant 16 colors instead of 8.

Today there's some great games out there as well. There's a lot MORE games in general now, and the ones with pretty graphics get the media attention (as they always have) but the ones you might consider good are in there too.

--
- It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -

Loyal fanbases: by Nomihn0 · 2004-11-11 17:58 · Score: 5, Insightful

Almost unconsciously, I have categorized nearly all brand names I know into one of two categories: those I imagine to be supported by die hard, underdog loving fans and those embraced by the conformist, top of the game crowd. Although I realize that some of these associations are flat out absurd, they sit in my mind as such, nonetheless. I am curious if others have the same type of relationships in the back of their minds:

*Apple:Microsoft
*Linux:Windows
*Nintendo:Sony (and more recently, Microsoft)
*Armadillo Aerospace:Scaled Composites
*Blizzard:Valve
*Mozilla:Internet Explorer
*Texas Instruments:Hewlett Packard (despite TI's market hold)
*Star Trek:Star Wars
*Archos:Apple
*Find-a-drug:Seti@home
*Wina mp(rip):WiMP

I wonder how much of this is my personal bias and how much is a result of clever advertising. Clearly, some of these comparisons are not legitimate or accurate, but the vast majority are. Regardless, those are the pairs I imagine. It's the fans of those things on the left that I feel would go out of their way for their cause.

Re:Loyal fanbases: by pkhuong · 2004-11-11 18:30 · Score: 1

TI = what students buy because school tells them to/everyone has them. HP, with its RPN, is still about loyalty and catering to those who know better ;) Check out c.s.hp48 - the user base has written a ******* manual that's better than the original! Hopefully, we'll have an alternative by the time Carly will have totally killed off the calculator division.

Bliz/Valve is debatable too.

--
Try Corewar @ www.koth.org - rec.games.corewar
Re:Loyal fanbases: by Apathetic1 · 2004-11-11 18:31 · Score: 1

After the bnetd debacle Blizzard firmly punted themselves onto the right hand side of those comparisons for me. All I wanted bnetd for was to run LAN games without having to install IPX. I blame Vivendi Universal rather than the Blizzard developers themselves.

--
My username does not make me Apathetic. It's irony, get it?
Re:Loyal fanbases: by martinX · 2004-11-11 18:46 · Score: 1

Interesting list.

I think "Archos:iPod" is what you meant and would make it clearer, though.

--
When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
Re:Loyal fanbases: by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 19:13 · Score: 0

i can remember in highschool (like 10 years ago)
my friends and i were die hard hp fans. we were
coding some pretty cool games.... got me started as a programmer.
Re:Loyal fanbases: by hobo2k · 2004-11-11 19:32 · Score: 1

The trek vs. wars one is a bit of a shock. Trek being the larger empire. The prequels are a different category. Those I'd compare against Sesame Street.
Re:Loyal fanbases: by tuxedobob · 2004-11-11 23:10 · Score: 1

What?

StarCraft doesn't need IPX.
Diablo 2 doesn't need IPX.
WarCraft III doesn't need IPX.

Are you still playing WarCraft II or Diablo I?
Re:Loyal fanbases: by WIAKywbfatw · 2004-11-12 00:01 · Score: 1

Warcraft III can already run over a LAN. So where's the fire?

--

"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
Re:Loyal fanbases: by Darren+Winsper · 2004-11-12 00:08 · Score: 1

Starcraft didn't have direct TCP/IP connect for a long, long time.
Re:Loyal fanbases: by Apathetic1 · 2004-11-12 01:16 · Score: 1

Yes, I am still playing Diablo I. For a long time, it was the only game that would run on all my housemates' computers.

--
My username does not make me Apathetic. It's irony, get it?
Re:Loyal fanbases: by stephanruby · 2004-11-12 03:26 · Score: 1

I completely agree. TIs are shoddy pieces of crap. I've seen so many of those calculators fail, it's unbelievable. HP makes and has always made great top of the line calculators, it's too bad they're also associated with louzy printers.
Re:Loyal fanbases: by Apathetic1 · 2004-11-12 04:58 · Score: 1

*shrug* I can't play a game I don't own. Warcraft III was still in Beta when they squashed bnetd.

--
My username does not make me Apathetic. It's irony, get it?
Re:Loyal fanbases: by Nomihn0 · 2004-11-12 06:33 · Score: 1

Indeed, Star Trek is the larger empire. However, the generation that memorized the ship classifications as kids is soon to be retired. Only the very devoted fans remain obsessed with the franchise (the heart if it, not the dreck that Enterprise is, IMHO). Star Wars, on the other hand, is still spawning its fanbase. The fact that these kids haven't been well acquainted with Star Trek is the fault of great marketing on George Lucas' part. If anyone saw the review of Star Wars: Battlefront in PC Gamer, they'd know what I meant. The franchise can get away with mediocrity while still growing its ranks. For Star Trek, it has seemed recently, there is no middle ground as far as attracting new fans is concerned. Every Star Wars movie is laughable. Fans accept it. The whole even-odd rule for Star Trek is just a tired excuse for a dying franchise. The fans are die hard. They won't admit it.
Re:Loyal fanbases: by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 08:25 · Score: 0

There's also the "they both suck" option. For all the Farscape / Babylon 5 / whatever else fans.
Re:Loyal fanbases: by toddestan · 2004-11-12 13:35 · Score: 1

This is really offtopic, but I haven't figured out what the heck is up with TI lately anyway. Their new calculators boast a whole lot of memory, flashy cases, USB ports, and stuff like that. But when it comes to math, not much has changed. Heck, the latest and greatest TI-84+ SuperDuper Silver Edition (or whatever they have now) still has the crappy 96x64 resolution screen that debuted on the TI-81, and lacks many features that my old TI-85 has. It's like they took the fact that many people in high school used their TI as Gameboys (I admit, I did it too!), and ran with that idea instead of actually trying to make calculators.

Oh well, as long as my trusty TI-85 and HP-48G hang in there, I'll be fine.
Re:Loyal fanbases: by drinkypoo · 2004-11-13 04:02 · Score: 1

I suggest two corrections:

Folding@Home:Seti@Home

and

Winamp:iTunes

I really don't know of anyone who uses WiMP because they love it. Its playlisting is even worse than iTunes', the interface is even slower, et cetera. You might know different people though.

Also, you might add Firefox:Opera to the list.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:Loyal fanbases: by drinkypoo · 2004-11-13 04:31 · Score: 1

HP has also made some of the best printers in time... best-in-class anyway. Among them are undoubtedly the Laserjet 4, LJ2xxx series, and LJ4xxx series. The printers in the store now kind of worry me, they're styled like a suzuki or something.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:Loyal fanbases: by Nomihn0 · 2004-11-13 06:52 · Score: 1

Interesting point - Folding@home is a more appropriate compairson. That said, Folding@home received a metric ton of press. Fewer people are aware of find-a-drug's wonderful projects, and for that, I feel that it is the more appropriate underdog. Both are distributed clients working to cure disease, so there's not a big difference in application. I propose replacing the Seti@home comparison with "find-a-drug:floding@home"

Yes, point taken on Winamp:iTunes too, but I feel that a certain crowd skews the data a bit: those who own iPods. Many aren't geeked out enough to deal with plugins for Winamp, even. It's not a fair comparison when Apple has customers that buy into its software, not knowing anything else. Then again, typing this, I realize that WiMP is the software equivalent. Okay, here's a non-debatable change - Winamp:Realplayer.

I don't get the appeal of Opera over Firefox. I guess that can goon the list too, if people are really flocking to it as an "alternative browser" without knowing why.
Re:Loyal fanbases: by tuxedobob · 2004-11-13 08:30 · Score: 1

Maybe not, but once Blizzard carbonized it for OS X it did. The bnetd stuff (lawsuit, shut down, etc.) happened after that, during the release of WC3.

There's one of those things in our local mall. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 18:01 · Score: 0

Me and my friends crack up and loudly laugh about how utterly illegal the knockoffs are when we walk by their booth. No one has said anything to us yet.

Re:There's one of those things in our local mall. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 06:56 · Score: 0

Oh, you and your friends are SOOOOO coooool! Can I join your 1337 gang??

Nobody's said anything because people generally humour the "special" kids by letting them say or do whatever they want.

Pirating Old NES Games? by rm999 · 2004-11-11 18:02 · Score: 5, Insightful

I'm sure I will get modded down for this, but I honestly don't think "pirating" classic NES games, which are up to 20 years old now, is that wrong. Nintendo made a lot of money off the NES, but at this point the market for the classic Mario and Donkey Kong games is limitied to the nostalgic crowd, most of whom legitmately bought the games when they were kids. Why should we have to shell out 20 bucks for a game that we not only already bought, but that pales in comparison to newer games regarding programming time and complexity? In my opinion, these old games should be freely given to the community who made Nintendo what it is today instead of whored out by the marketing department of Nintendo to squeeze the last few cents out of them.

Re:Pirating Old NES Games? by ssand · 2004-11-11 18:23 · Score: 1

I've seen these people in malls here in Canada. This isn't one guy pirating a couple games for himself or a friend, these are kiosks selling them for $70.00.
Re:Pirating Old NES Games? by QuantumG · 2004-11-11 18:27 · Score: 1

In any case you shouldn't claim that a product made off pirate roms is a legitimate Nintendo product.

--
How we know is more important than what we know.
Re:Pirating Old NES Games? by BTWR · 2004-11-11 19:06 · Score: 4, Insightful

Why is it you get to decide that video games have an arbitrary shelf life (and... a shelf life 1/5 the current copyright length?).
You know, they just released a special edition of Dr. Strangelove. That movie is over 40 years old. Are you going to say that it should be legally piratable? What about Back to the Future? Return of the Jedi? All are at least as old as Super Mario Brothers. Are they ok to copy? Lord of the Rings books - a half-century old. Are they now public domain?
Listen, I think abandonware sites are ok. But... let's look at the word abandonware: Abandon and Ware: i.e. "software" that has been "abandoned" (i.e. completely given up).
This year, Nintendo decided to re-release their classic NES games. And you know what? They made one hell of a profit. Did you have to buy them? No. Could you have gotten Metroid free from other sources (i.e. beating Metroid Prime + metroid Fusion)? Sure. But, it was a decent price (half the price they were in 1985) and a lot of people got to either re-live their childhoods (the avg person doesn't know what the hell a ROM is) or introduce an awesome game to an 11 year-old whos never seen anything 2-D.
Personally, I think there's nothing wrong with that and it is hardly "whoring" of nintendo "to squeeze the last few cents out of them."
Re:Pirating Old NES Games? by LiquidHAL · 2004-11-11 19:53 · Score: 1

There are greater implications to consider beyond ownership. Dr. Strangelove has become a part of American Culture, often referenced, being a part of the era and defining (and defying) it fairly well. Kubrick and now his estate have made boatloads of money on it. I think people should not only be able to watch Dr. Strangelove for free, they should be allowed to use bits of it in their own creative works without asking permission. We need some sort of mechanism in the law which allows for these type of considerations. I don't believe this is punishing people for being too succesfull. Our society runs on things created in the past, everything is built from something else, and we should be able to use the elements that these are built on to make newer works faster, rather than waiting a century before it becomes acceptable. Many great poets of the past thought nothing of plagarizing something they heard the week before, to use it and expand on it, create something greater. Making countless rules, having to acquire legal permission when reproducing anything, something you grew up with that shaped the way you are, not letting you express yourself fully, is counter-productive to the aims of advancing and expanding society. I know this discussion is about the nintendo games being copied and used rather than using them for creative purposes, but I believe the law is still inadequate. Selling them, I'll admit, is wrong under almost any circumstance, but downloading them is more of a gray issue.
Re:Pirating Old NES Games? by runderwo · 2004-11-11 20:19 · Score: 1, Redundant

I think a far more reasonable approach is to allow nonprofit redistribution of copyrighted works which the copyright holder no longer makes available for sale.
Another approach would be to require an exponentially increasing fee of the copyright holder each year to maintain the copyright of a work, thus guaranteeing that the work will eventually enter the public domain once it no longer serves a rational benefit to the copyright holder.

--
LRC, the best-read libertarian site on the web
Re:Pirating Old NES Games? by CAIMLAS · 2004-11-11 20:22 · Score: 1

Simple: they want more money.

If you had several hundred ROMs of games made 15+ years ago, many of which (let's say 20) you still find quite enjoyable to play, would you shell out $150 for a new system, and $40+ for supplimental games?

Probably not.

Just like MS's main competition is old versions of their own software, a large part of Nintendo's competition comes from their older games and systems. Quite likely to a similar extent, as Nintendo seems to have a fairly niche market, compared to the Playstation and Xbox, with dedicated "Nintendo" fans.

--
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
Re:Pirating Old NES Games? by BTWR · 2004-11-11 20:30 · Score: 2, Insightful

yes. it's called public domain. In the USA, I believe it is approximately 100 years. Which means that anyone can use the name "Huckleberry Finn" in their works (hense "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen"), and in a few years anyone can use "Mickey Mouse."
But for now, I'm sorry, using Dr. Strangelove is NOT public domain (nor should it be).
Re:Pirating Old NES Games? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 20:36 · Score: 0

I totally agree, but retro is *big* these days. there's a huge demand for those classic games. Nintendo is taking down the roms because of their remaining commercial value, which will probably increase even further over time.

I think nintendo should release the roms and a good emulator themselfs and stop falling back on their old glory.
Re:Pirating Old NES Games? by Minna+Kirai · 2004-11-11 21:02 · Score: 1

Why is it you get to decide that video games have an arbitrary shelf life (and... a shelf life 1/5 the current copyright length?).

In the USA, the Constitution requires this.

It states that Congress may establish copyright protection to "promote the progress of science and the useful arts". 20-30 years of copyright protection does promote progress, by giving authors a better chance to earn money from their work.

However, copyright extending much longer than that becomes counter-productive: it allows authors to sit back and collect royalties from old works, instead of creating anything new. And it also makes it harder for other authors to build off old works, further retarding progress.

The USA's Supreme Court has already noted that the length of copyright terms is contrary to the Constitutional intent, although they haven't yet had a case asking them to rule on it.

And you know what? They made one hell of a profit.

A perfect example of how copyright lasts too long. A game company made a lot of money without making any new games. If copyright was shorter, the public would still be playing those games, but Nintendo would be spending more time writing new stuff, instead of marketing oldies.
Re:Pirating Old NES Games? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 21:04 · Score: 0

and in a few years anyone can use "Mickey Mouse."

...Unless of course, Disney lobbies to have the time length extended YET AGAIN.
Re:Pirating Old NES Games? by Minwee · 2004-11-12 02:23 · Score: 1

I think what you meant to say was "anyone can use the name 'Huckleberry Finn' in their works, but in a few years the copyright term will be extended to prevent anyone from using 'Mickey Mouse'."

That's the way it has worked for the past century, and it doesn't look like it's going to change any time soon.
Re:Pirating Old NES Games? by Zangief · 2004-11-12 02:46 · Score: 1

Few years? You mean, that every few years you wait more and more to use the name "Mickey Mouse".
--
Wiki de Ciencia Ficcion y Fantasia
Re:Pirating Old NES Games? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 07:30 · Score: 0

" Why is it you get to decide that video games have an arbitrary shelf life (and... a shelf life 1/5 the current copyright length?)."

and then you said:

"But for now, I'm sorry, using Dr. Strangelove is NOT public domain (nor should it be)."

So he doesn't get to make choices about shelf life, but YOU do? Back off, hypocrite.
Re:Pirating Old NES Games? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 21:47 · Score: 0

You mean, the same Constitution that allows people to keep slaves? Obviously the US legal system evolved over the course of 200 years, get your head out of your ass.

Holy crap you hypocrite by cbreaker · 2004-11-11 18:02 · Score: 2, Funny

"now that I am 20 years old and mature, I wish Nintendo/Sony would crack down on priates a little more"

In other words:

"now that I've stopped selling bootleg copies of games, I wish people would get caught."

And you're misguided to boot! CD Recorders have just a little bit under zero to do with the quality of games.

--
- It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -

Re:Holy crap you hypocrite by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 20:59 · Score: 0

Hey, it's the emulator idiot. Why don't you go back to pirating SNES games and talking about how great emulation is?
Re:Holy crap you hypocrite by cbreaker · 2004-11-12 18:23 · Score: 1

Hey, it's the anonymous bastard idiot, aka the guy that was fighting with me but now won't show his name. I owned you on that thread, admit it.

Moron.

I never once said I pirate emulated games - I own a shit load of SNES games among other console systems, how do you claim to know otherwise? I said I believe emulation will preserve the games for the future when the systems are gone.

--
- It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
Re:Holy crap you hypocrite by drinkypoo · 2004-11-13 04:33 · Score: 1

If a certain percentage of people pirate games, developers must release more games to make money. The more games they release, the lower the quality of the individual games will be. The question of whether or not people are pirating enough games to cause that effect, I will leave as an exercise for the reader.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"

Reported to Nintendo? by zobier · 2004-11-11 18:06 · Score: 1

and there was at least one reply from a guy who reported someone to Nintendo.

Am I missing something or does the linked comment (@ time of posting) not mention reporting anything to Nintendo?

--
Me lost me cookie at the disco.

good thing by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 18:09 · Score: 0

I noticed one in my local mall, and chose to report it too. When I saw them in the mall near me, you saw the people being suckered into the cheap piece of shit

Suspicious.... by tktk · 2004-11-11 18:10 · Score: 1

I'm betting it was one compeditor reporting in another.

Re:Suspicious.... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 03:43 · Score: 0

VI or Emacs?
(Can I be rated obscure?)

Cracking down on more than that... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 18:12 · Score: 0

You do know that Nintendo is sueing anyone that makes emulators that can run off of PDAs... with a bogus patent that is killed by all the prior art. But who cares? Its the big N and they have tons of cash =/ Funny thing is, they only seem to be going after stuff for the Palm OS...

They might mean by design, but the not contents. by WiredOni · 2004-11-11 18:26 · Score: 2, Informative

There are pirate Nes/Famicom consoles are shaped like popular consoles, like for example the first playstation.

How nice of them to keep the PS box with its advertisements for playstation games. It even has a flyer that advertiess NES/Famicoms in the shapes of a Genesis, SNES, N64, NeoGeo?(I think, I can't quite tell), and the different versions of the same consoles(i.e Genesis version II).

So I can see them making a GameCube shaped pirate Famicom/Nes if they haven't already.

A New Nintendo Fan Club by Deraj+DeZine · 2004-11-11 18:26 · Score: 1

The Nintendojugend!

--
True story.

Why I reported them by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 18:39 · Score: 5, Interesting

I was one of the "400 loyal fans"... ... except I'm not really a loyal fan. They lost me to the dark side (Sega) after their stubborness over CDs. Sure, I like their games, but I haven't really been a Nintendo fan since the SNES.

There are a few reasons I reported them. First, some of those games aren't abandonware. Nintendo is actively re-releasing them for the Gameboy Advance. Second, they're competing unfairly with Nintendo. The kiosk I reported was just outside an Electionics Boutique, and I suspect a fair number of parents that were asked for a Nintendo system for Christmas saw this as a deal, and got that instead of a real system. Third, they're unfairly profiting from Nintendo's IP. They were selling these devices for nearly $70! And finally, they were extremely pushy, and used high-pressure sales tactics on anyone who passed by their kiosk.

I think emulators are perfectly legal, and trading old ROMs doesn't really hurt their bottom line, but this was wholesale abuse of their IP.

Re:Why I reported them by WWWWolf · 2004-11-12 03:01 · Score: 1

They lost me to the dark side (Sega) after their stubborness over CDs.

*giggle* *giggle* *snort* ...you bought the Sega CD...
...bhehehehehehehehehe...

...or Saturn... ohdearohdear...

(Insert several minutes of incoherent laughter here)

That is the price you pay for losing your faith in the almighty Nintendo! For it is written in the Book of Miyamoto, chapter IX: "15. And the Competitors shall bring out the Compact Laser Disc Storage Systems, which look good and seem cool, 16. but those Unbelievers who buy them shall be subject to Unimaginative Mass-Market Games after the era of Multimedia Full-Motion Garbage is over. 17. And the Nemesis shall set a Trap in the Night, which is especially forbidden, for it lacks quality." Verily! So is written.

As for other things, I definitely agree =)
Re:Why I reported them by DLWormwood · 2004-11-12 04:04 · Score: 1

*giggle* *giggle* *snort* ...you bought the Sega CD...
(Insert several minutes of incoherent laughter here)
Hey now, be nice... Yes, half of the Mega CD's catalog (mostly "interactive video") sucked, but the platform got plenty of gems. Working Design's translations of Lunar, Vay, and Popful Mail were works of art. The platform also got decent strategy games like Dark Wizard. This platform was the first to really show to western audiences the true wierdness of Japanese tastes, thanks to games like Keio Flying Squadron and Panic!. Finally, most Sonic fans consider Sonic CD to be the best game of the series...

--
Those who complain about affect & effect on /. should be disemvoweled
Re:Why I reported them by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 07:43 · Score: 0

Are you sucking cock and taking it in the ass while you write that as well? "tee hee, giggle giggle, snort, snort"? you sound like an immature 13 year old schoolgirl.
Re:Why I reported them by drinkypoo · 2004-11-13 04:22 · Score: 1

The Sega Saturn had several really exceptionally good games not present on any other platform, like Dragon Force, Layer Section I and II (shooters), the best Puzzle Bobble ports ever, the best bomberman ever (up to 10 players with the special multiplayer tap, or two of the sega 6-taps), area 51 (which was basically on a saturn in the arcade), virtua cop I and II... I could go on but there's no point. The Saturn fucking rules. Sega CD, on the other hand, had about one good game, and it was Lunar. Nintendo, on the other hand, sat with the SNES for almost eternity and then brought out the crapfest we know as the N64. It had a controller that was almost cool and innovative and a bunch of games that looked like some cartoon shit compared to the N64's competitors. I sold mine and I don't feel bad about it, but I do own a gamecube, upon which there are many fine games which I enjoy playing at least weekly if not more often. All the N64 games I cared about were Zelda games and they've all been ported to GC, and I have them.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"

prison labor to boot by SethJohnson · 2004-11-11 18:43 · Score: 1

Don't forget that all those knock-offs are frequently produced using prison / slave labor. It's somewhat surprising that the US has continued to give China favored trading status in the bleak hopes that we'll ever be able to export something to them.

--
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!

Re:prison labor to boot by Galvatron · 2004-11-11 19:58 · Score: 2, Interesting

"Most Favored Nation" trade status is also known as "normal" trade status, and only a select few countries are not in this category. The fact that China has this status is only remarkable because they are a nominally Communist country.

--
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
Re:prison labor to boot by ajs318 · 2004-11-11 21:34 · Score: 1

I've never understood why Western nations allow the importation of goods manufactured under conditions which would not be acceptable in the destination country; for instance, environmental pollution, unsanitary and/or unsafe working conditions, no trade union representation &c. With our strict controls on pollution and workers' welfare, how can we hope to compete with that?

The cynic in me thinks, however, that in order to boost the ailing manufacturing industries in the UK and USA, Bush and Blair will level the field by loosening our factory codes to third-world levels. The Dole will be scrapped. Instead, the unemployed -- and their kids -- will be forced to work a sixteen-hour day for a single bowl of rice, and not given anything to drink if they don't work hard enough.

--
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
Re:prison labor to boot by hymie3 · 2004-11-12 03:01 · Score: 1

The fact that China has this status is only remarkable because they are a nominally Communist country.

No. They were removed from the list due to humans rights violations. One could argue that communist countries are more likely to engage in such abuses, but that's not necessarily the case. They're Most Favored now because we favor receiving dollars from them. In exchange for them buying our crap (and selling cheap crap to us), we gladly turn a blind eye to on-going human rights violations like, say, using political prisoners as slave labor.

All hail the mighty dollar, long live King Bush.

Taking out the garbage is good. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 18:44 · Score: 2, Interesting

At a mall kisok in Orlando a few months ago some guy tried to sell me one of these machines, he started out at 75 bucks, and it came with about 200 games he said(which i'm guess was similar to a multicart where about 160 are the same danm thing and only a few orignials) now while i thought it was cool after seeing Galaga he let me snoop around at the other games, which included shrek(a mario bros hack which was just mario all green), smurfs(a mario bros hack which was just mario all blue), superspider man(again a mario bros hack where mario is in a spider man costume, etc) these were terrible, awful 3rd grade remakes of classic games of course they had the original liscensed games too. But over all these things were complete crap and when i told the guy that he said well what about 50 dollars then? Danm I should look up the location right now and email NOA, nahh they never released the realistic zelda for gc so im still pissed. But anyway I'd hate to be a snitch its the worst but these things aren't good for anyone even kids.

Yeah, I've seen those. by rock_climbing_guy · 2004-11-11 18:56 · Score: 2, Interesting

I can say for sure I've seen these things for sale at kiosks at the malls in Lubbock, TX and Midland, TX. I'm surprised to be just now hearing that Nintendo is sueing them.

The particular one I've seen for sale is called "Power Player." It boasts of an image of the lighsaber duel from "The Phantom Menace." Quick, someone call George Lucas.

So then, what other rip-offs of Nintendo games are out there?

--
Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???

Re:Yeah, I've seen those. by drinkypoo · 2004-11-14 06:11 · Score: 1

I didn't keep track of what the thing was called but right out front of the gamestop in my mall (in Yuba City, CA) they're selling a unit like this for forty bucks. I told some people standing by the kiosk, probably all of whom worked there, that it was illegal as I proceeded out of the joint with my new-used GBA SP, probably due to the influence of that ol' imp of the perverse. As I said in a previous comment I got one like it but of even lower quality for ten bucks, so I'm already happy. The picture is garbage but for ten bucks you can't hardly complain if you only have one or two hundred NES games and the picture looks funky when you use the light gun.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"

Questions... by Taulin · 2004-11-11 19:01 · Score: 1

Not saying your lying, but this story is strange. Six years ago, 1998, CD burners were still pricey, and VERY slow. Didn't your parents notice you burning all these disks? Second, what sort of moding gear did all your friends have? I heard of the chip you can stick in the back, but almost all of the mods took an operation. Porn game? There were porn games? Must have been a home brew one unless your idea of porn is PG-13. Being one who has been to Akihabara alot (including this upcoming Tuesday), most Japanese porn games are for the PC, so it must have been US or German.

Anyways, just curious, not criticizing.

Re:Questions... by j.bellone · 2004-11-12 01:03 · Score: 1

Playboy (or was it Hustler?) made a game that you could only run with a mod chip because Sony wouldn't let them license it (go figure!). It wasn't very popular, because of the obvious reasons.

--
I'm f#$king magic!
Re:Questions... by Fig,+formerly+A.C. · 2004-11-12 01:03 · Score: 1

Damn you and your infernal logic, anyway. Why do you have to go distorting the truth with these fact thingies, anyhow? ;-)
OTOH, I was at Purdue in '98, and I had a SCSI CD-R (Sony 8x4, $250)... And the modding community was really widespread. I watched a mod chip being installed in the PS1, it took 10 minutes and some basic soldering skills. Nothing a semi-technical 14 year old couldn't do.
As far as the porn games, that's not unlikely either. Thrill Kill is risque and never released here, plus I'm sure there are a lot more and worse games overseas that our censor society won't let in. IIRC, even the SEGA had a game that was borderline porn, based on FMV. I personally had a porn game for my Commodore 128 as a kid. It was lame, but it was still hardcore porn.

--
Murphy was an optimist.
Re:Questions... by Impotent_Emperor · 2004-11-12 07:18 · Score: 1

I think there were Japanese porn games for the Playstation. These were the in the anime-style kind mostly known as "hentai".

The reason I think this is that I received Electronic Gaming Monthly for a couple issues (sometime around '95 or '96) and I'm pretty sure they were reviewing those porn games in the magazine. Unfortunately, I don't have a copy of the issue. I wonder if anyone can confirm this?

Universality by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 19:45 · Score: 1

"Why should we have to shell out 20 bucks for a game that we not only already bought, but that pales in comparison to newer games regarding programming time and complexity?"

What a strange and nonsensical thing to say. Not everyone is the same age as you, not everyone was into video games then, not everyone chose the Nintendo over the Sega Master System...

There are just short of 6 billion people who didn't buy the original Super Mario Brothers. Statistically, that's *everyone*. In particular there are about 500 million people who weren't even alive when the game came out.

You say the market for the games is limited to nostalgia. I think the bigger market is gifts. I bought a copy of Zelda for my sister. She'd never played it, she's not going to use an emulator, and she's sure as hell not going to maintain an old NES. Is that not a valid reason for Nintendo to be selling these old games?

They don't owe you anything. They made great games and you got to play them as long as you wanted on your NES. If anything, you owe them more gratitude for making wonderful things. And if you don't like the price... just don't fucking buy it.

Re:Universality by rm999 · 2004-11-11 20:37 · Score: 1

"There are just short of 6 billion people who didn't buy the original Super Mario Brothers. Statistically, that's *everyone*. In particular there are about 500 million people who weren't even alive when the game came out." I think this statement alone shows that you don't understand the marketing of these old games. Believe it or not, a huge percentage of people who are interested in these old games: A. have played them before, and many of these people did buy it before. B. are not kids, because very few kids have any interest in an 8-bit 2 Mhz system and the games it can play. The kids I know look down on anything that isn't 3d. I am not saying that nintendo owes me anything, nor am i saying that I am ingrateful that they made the games. In fact, of the three big video game makers, Nintendo is by far my favorite. I am just critical that it is so hard and so expensive to legally play their old games, which I feel are pretty much financially useless to them at this point. I could play perfect copies of more than 1000 NES games today, right now - illegally. But, if I want to take the legal route, I have to buy 20 dollar cartridges from a meager selection of their old games or attempt to get my 20 year-old NES working again. Yeah right. I just think it would be great if they opened up their library of games to the world (like the ROM community did 5 years ago) and used it as a selling point for their GBA - they could sell GBAs to a wider market, and make some extra money off their own memory cards (instead of some shady company's cards on the internet). It would also be a great PR stunt towards the older consumers who have shunned their products for the PS2 and XBOX.
Re:Universality by SillyNickName4me · 2004-11-12 02:03 · Score: 1

> They don't owe you anything. They made great games and you got to play them as long as you wanted on your NES. If anything, you owe them more gratitude for making wonderful things. And if you don't like the price... just don't fucking buy it.

They do not owe me anythign directly, but they do owe something to society in general.

Law makers seem to have forgotten this, but putting it into the public domain after a set period of time (waaaay too long nowadays) is something that a publisher owes to society in exchange for the limited time monopoly on distribution that they get (normally called copyright, eventho that term is not entirely correct imho)
Re:Universality by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 02:36 · Score: 0

Does this mean that The Beatles are wrong for putting The White Album on cassette, and then again on cd. Cause I can make the argument that the majority of young people who are listening to Nelly and Avril Lavigne wouldn't dare listen to the album, but there are some who'd like to see what it's about, not to mention the adults who happily would buy it for the nostalgia even though they owned it on vinyl decades ago. OR should they release it for free so they keep people from running to the new Britney Spears album.
Re:Universality by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 07:33 · Score: 0

"They don't owe you anything. They made great games and you got to play them as long as you wanted on your NES. If anything, you owe them more gratitude for making wonderful things. And if you don't like the price... just don't fucking buy it."

Then by that logic, I'll say that I don't owe them anything either, since I already paid for the game 18 years ago. And I don't like the idea of paying again, so I won't fucking buy it. I'll copy it.

Thanks for the advice.

Re:China: Morally Bankrupt Society by Shajenko42 · 2004-11-11 19:45 · Score: 1

Yeah, because the copyright infringement is by far the greater crime, right?

Re: Wrong mistake... by blahplusplus · 2004-11-11 19:58 · Score: 2, Interesting

It was never about Xbox or PS2, Playstation 1 took all the former Nintendo developers and you can bet if nintendo had released a CD based console in the PS1 era sony would have never gained dominance. Note how many Nintendo sequels were done for the playstation 1 and you will see why the PS2 succeed, most hardcore PS2 owners own a GC as well I would imagine.

Re:News at 11 by blahplusplus · 2004-11-11 20:05 · Score: 1

Bootleggers help catch the original pirate!

Now if thats not ironic and funny I dont know what is.

One man boycott by Lord+Kano · 2004-11-11 20:27 · Score: 0, Flamebait

What harm has Nintendo really done to people other than sue the occasional Warez site distributing old Nintendo ROMS?

My all time favorite arcade game was Killer Instinct. Not only did Nintendo refuse to release it for the "Ultra 64", which we all came to know as the Nintendo 64, but went on to defile my beloved game by bringing an ass sucking sequel to market and I will not even discuss the blasphemy that was Killer Instinct for the SNES.

So, now that all of the arcades have gotten rid of it my choices for playing the game I love are to use an unlicensed copy of the ROMs and hard drive image with an emulator or play the ass sucking Killer Instinct Gold for the N64 or playing the supremely ass sucking Killer Instinct for the SNES.

Fuck Nintendo. I haven't spent a cent on one of their products in about 9 years now. I have no plan on every giving them another cent of my money.

Now that I know Nintendo is pissed off about these "1200 games in one" devices, I just might have to pick one up.

Hell, less than a week ago I played Hogan's Alley on one at an expo show. (No Nintendo, I will not tell you where.)

LK

--
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano

Re:One man boycott by blixel · 2004-11-11 20:33 · Score: 1

Fuck Nintendo. I haven't spent a cent on one of their products in about 9 years now. I have no plan on every giving them another cent of my money.

Now that I know Nintendo is pissed off about these "1200 games in one" devices, I just might have to pick one up.

You go girl.
Re:One man boycott by Lord+Kano · 2004-11-11 21:30 · Score: 0, Troll

You go girl.

Black people don't say that anymore, and neither do the gay people who stole it from us.

LK

--
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Re:One man boycott by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 22:55 · Score: 0

You're a 5-pound salted nutbag.

First, Killer Instinct is a shit game series for dial-a-scrubs.

Second, KI is a Rare game, not a Nintendo game. To put things in perspective, Microsoft now has more control over what happens to the shitbucket that is Killer Instinct than Nintendo ever did.

Third, WTF got you into this embarrassing posting rage about your favorite little arcade game and how the man oppressed you by releasing it not to your demanding ghetto standards? Winners don't do drugs. Look into that; I'm sure there are a multitude of free clinics with the appropriate ebonicized pamphlets for the benefit of the folks in your particular neighborhood project, "LK."
Re:One man boycott by GTRacer · 2004-11-12 03:08 · Score: 1

...the supremely ass sucking Killer Instinct for the SNES.
Huh? KI was the first fighter I ever mastered (and pretty much the only, excluding Tekken Tag). I wasn't as crazy about KI2 - fighting seemed a little better but the art direction blew.
I also wasn't too crazy about KIG, but it's not a bad conversion.
However, when a housefire displaced my family, we bought a used SNES for cheap thrills - and I grabbed a copy of KI. It's not perfect but I think almost every important move is there, as are the "extra" hit combos Orchid was famous for!
GTRacer
- Humiliation

--
Defending IP by destroying access to it? That makes sense, RIAA/MPAA. Go to the corner until you can play nice!
Re:One man boycott by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 03:16 · Score: 0

So your favorite game of all time is Killer Instinct, yet you pick a /. username from a different combat game...?
Re:One man boycott by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 09:20 · Score: 0

Ah yes. Killer Instinct after a house fire. Old school.
Re:One man boycott by Lord+Kano · 2004-11-12 15:57 · Score: 1

No.

--
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Re:One man boycott by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 16:25 · Score: 0

Penis envy isn't very becoming.

Re:China: Morally Bankrupt Society by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 20:32 · Score: 0

Tibet was a feudal theocracy with the vast majority of the population living in stone-age conditions. China imposing socialism and building up its infrastructure is the best thing that ever happened to it. The people of other nearby mountain nations are in revolutionary sruggles of their own - to bring Maoist socialism to their nations. The US opposes it because they have an economic interest in a society made of super-elites and the extremely poor.

Piracy is the result of a morally bankrupt society? Even in the US many people pirate more than 20% of their music or movies. In China, where the legitimate product is either unavailable (try buying a legit. Western CD in China that isn't Celine Dion or some such shit), or priced at an absurdly expensive rate.

something u will see by hkht · 2004-11-11 20:41 · Score: 1

that those of us who may get a a hold of something shared but will buy because we support the product and artist we love. at least that what i will do. i bought two metallica cd's after listening to metallica on my bro's computer during the napster trial days....by the way his computer was one of those recognized on a particular day and was banned from the napster network by court order.

Re:Yes, but if Suicide Girls ever got a hold of th by Guppy06 · 2004-11-11 20:53 · Score: 2, Informative

"IANAL, but I've read a lot of Groklaw, and from what I can understand Nintendo has never really cracked down on NES, SNES, or N64 roms"

Ehhh... it depends. Two years ago, as was all over Slashdot, Nintendo was among the companies that went after Lik Sang, particularly for selling Flash Advance Linkers that could download and upload GBA roms. I also remember the hooplah over UltraHLE, an N64 emulator that was released when the N64 was still current. All in all, though, it seems Nintendo's anti-piracy efforts have been pretty low-key, at least where obsolete consoles are concerned.

They could do some of the same things the RIAA and MPAA are doing, for the same reasons; ROMs aren't as prevalent in P2P networks as music and movies, but they are out there. They could hassle the folks who write ZSNES and Snes9x. They could try hunting down those few crackers who actually dumped those NES carts and transferred them to a PC (it's not like they could have just used their Super Wild Card or the Flash Advance Linker). But from what I've seen they aren't.

It's almost as if, so long as money isn't changing hands, Nintendo (if not the console gaming industry in general) has something of a "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

Consider the EarthBound "Zero" ROM. We have every reason to believe there is only copy of the (development) cartridge out in the wild. Money was paid to the person who owned the cartridge for the express purpose of dumping the image and putting it on the internet. And the Slashdot article I just linked to is about an interview with a Nintendo employee about whether the ROM is really the unreleased US version of Mother or just a fan translation of the Japanese version. And yet, to my knowledge, Nintendo's legal arm hasn't made a peep about the entire episode.

Is it working though? by Cap'n+Steve · 2004-11-11 20:54 · Score: 1

The website mentioned in the last article (http://www.epowerplayer.com/) seems to be alive and well, and not even trying to be secretive.

Out-of-Topic-Because-This-Is-For-GameBoy-Advance by Proud_to_be_Pinoy · 2004-11-11 20:55 · Score: 1

In Quiapo, Philippines, cartridges for Gameboy Advance are selling for PhP200.00 each, that's less than US$4 per ROM.

Titles I remember:
Final Fantasy Tactics
Max Payne
Tom Clancy's whats-that-spec-ops-title
Advance Wars 1 & 2

Didn't buy them, but now I wish I did, so I recently downloaded them and a Gameboy emulator instead.

--
no sig = no personality(?)

Thompson's response, reworded by Tina+Russell · 2004-11-11 21:00 · Score: 1

"What you say? I'm too busy setting you up the bomb."

Re:There are three of these kiosks locally. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 21:20 · Score: 1, Insightful

If copyrights lasted for only 20 years like they were meant to, then these kiosks would be legit.

Except that the NES was released in the US in '85, only 19 years ago. Not to mention that games were being made for it all the way up to 1994.

Re:China: Morally Bankrupt Society by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 21:27 · Score: 0

Hey, you wouldn't be some kind of slant-eyed little China apologist would you, making sure that if the party is monitoring your posts that you're on record as saying the right thing? Thought so!

You know all those African blacks in the 17th century? Being forcibly taken to a young nation like America was the best thing that ever happened to them! Their great-grandchildren get free schooling and democracy, if not for slavery then they would still be beating drums and running around naked, when they weren't eating each other!

What?! You've never heard of a Polystation?! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 21:27 · Score: 5, Funny

Have you been living in a cave?! Polystation is
a very famous brand! Just like Panaphonics,
Magnetbox, and Sorny!

Re:What?! You've never heard of a Polystation?! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 03:22 · Score: 0

Dude! I use Durexcell batteries in Ninetendo GamePlayer Advance! I thought I was alone.
Re:What?! You've never heard of a Polystation?! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 03:37 · Score: 0

Don't forget the XtremeBox... I live in NYC and I see tables selling one of this devices all the time.

Re:China: Morally Bankrupt Society by PhotoBoy · 2004-11-11 21:31 · Score: 1

Perhaps if we tell the RIAA and the MPAA about them we can get them to stop suing school kids and OAPs.

Some people need to GET A LIFE! by pandrijeczko · 2004-11-11 22:07 · Score: 1, Flamebait

I'm no supporter of piracy believe me but Nintendo is just another mega-corporation whose only function in life is to milk the rest of us for as much money as possible so that a few fat cats at the top get rich.

If you're that much in love with a corporation that you have to spend time in your life to do their policing for them, then you probably need to go get a few extra hobbies.

I just wonder how many of these Nintendo "fanboys" would report someone selling a few pirated games but step over someone lying unconscious in the gutter...

--
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.

Re:Some people need to GET A LIFE! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 04:04 · Score: 0

>I just wonder how many of these Nintendo "fanboys" would report someone selling a few pirated games but step over someone lying unconscious in the gutter...

I'd step over *you* laying unconscious in the gutter. Probably give some kicks while I'm at it.
Re:Some people need to GET A LIFE! by pandrijeczko · 2004-11-12 04:38 · Score: 1

I'd step over *you* laying unconscious in the gutter. Probably give some kicks while I'm at it.
If you've been indoors playing your Nintendo for too long, you might want to splatter some sun-block onto your pasty white skin and check for atrophy in your leg muscles before venturing outdoors on the streets...

--
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
Re:Some people need to GET A LIFE! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 07:46 · Score: 0

Way to prove the parent poster's point.. You're a waste of sperm, peon.

An army of snitches. by lxs · 2004-11-11 22:11 · Score: 1

Actually, I'm a little bit uneasy about this. When the RIAA or MPAA tries to recruit an army of snitches, everybody here cries foul, but when Nintendo fans rat each other out, it's seen as something noble. Nintendorks indeed!

Now please excuse me, I have to report on my neighbors.

Re:An army of snitches. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 22:50 · Score: 0

It's more of a matter that people want free stuff, and in the case of the bootleg systems, someone is making a profit on something that you can obtain freely on the Internet.
Re:An army of snitches. by PhoenixFlare · 2004-11-12 01:19 · Score: 1

When the RIAA or MPAA tries to recruit an army of snitches, everybody here cries foul, but when Nintendo fans rat each other out, it's seen as something noble. Nintendorks indeed!

I'd do it much less enthusiastically, but If someone was actually selling pirated movie or music discs instead of free sharing, i'd report them too.

People do these things for Nintendo because they truly support the company, and don't want to see them losing money to blatantly pirated knockoff crap.
Re:An army of snitches. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 04:47 · Score: 0

So piracy is good and ok when they are ripping people off at $70.00?

And let me guess, you hate paying for things?
Re:An army of snitches. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 07:49 · Score: 0

It's a physical object that needs to be built and includes materials and basic costs. As opposed to an intangible MP3 that really has nothing physical attached to it. Perhaps this device costs $60 to build and they are only making $10 profit.

But I wouldn't expect you to understand such things.

Translation: Blah blah blah by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 22:32 · Score: 0

This is the RIAA/MPAA/et al's dream mantra.

Poor ole producers, just mindin' their own business, and everybody stealin' from them and they're just loosin' money and shucks we just want to give you a quality product and a few bad apples are ruinin' it for all of us.

Please take a look at history. All of these guys are trying to *screw us to the wall*. DRM, pay-per-play, less product:higher cost, Copyright now lasting effectively until infinity...the list goes on and on.

Well, the internet has dulled their ability to raise prices and restrict their products and so they're crying "foul!".

I'm saying the playing field has finally been leveled and I have no problems with people downloading 20 year ROMs because by rights, these should be public domain anyway.

This is funny stuff by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 22:38 · Score: 0

"My point is now that I am 20 years old and mature"

When you're that old, do you start to need viagra yet?

" the quality in games in my opinion has dropped a lot since the introduction of CD recorders."

Yeah...once they CD recorder was introduced in '90, games have gone to hell.

I guess by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 22:44 · Score: 0

"Jobs came in and saved them with brilliancy-after-brilliancy"

When you come to slashdot, you see illiteracy after illiteracy.

Ebay....! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 22:49 · Score: 0

I wonder why no one said Ebay yet.

Nowadays you can hardly buy any GBA game from Ebay, it's mostly china-copy-junk.

Quite some I reported to Nintendo. Why? I think it's a ripoff to sell someone a cheaply copied game as a original, and Nintendo has never alienated me like the music industry and such (as a normal customer).

Come on, guys by ajs318 · 2004-11-11 23:09 · Score: 4, Insightful

We're always told how America is the Land of the Free Market and Government Regulation is a Bad Thing. Yet the instant someone tries practising free-market economics for real over there, they're suddenly evil. What the hell difference is there between this type of counterfeiting, and what every supermarket is doing with its "own brand" copies of bestselling goods anyway? Isn't Tesco Rich Blend Instant Coffee just counterfeit Nescafé? Aren't Sainsbury's Rice Pops just counterfeit Kellogg's Rice Krispies? What's the freakin' difference already?

Joe Punter isn't going to be fooled for one minute into believing this sort of thing is endorsed by Nintendo. Nor, at that price, is he going to be bothered whether it is or not. All it has to do is keep the kids entertained for longer than they will take to break it. Realness isn't part of the equation. And if some third party can satisfy the relevant factors, then they're going to be the ones that get the money. Pure and simple.

It's the same thing with the obviously fake designer clothing sold on market stalls, and those awful fake Rolex watches you can spot a mile off {hint: a real Rolex does not go around in jerks. Just on the wrists of jerks}. Nobody's expecting it to be real, and nobody's disappointed that it isn't.

You know, just maybe if perhaps "official" stuff wasn't so overpriced, there might be a chance that people perhaps wouldn't feel so much of an urge to counterfeit it, possibly. It's all very well to say that if you're poor and have principles, you should do without; and I should know all there is to know about doing without. But while there are all these big rich corporations wanting to eat their cake and have it*, while simultaneously shoving it in your face that if you don't have foo you're obviously a loser, what the hell kind of example is that setting?

* I just think it sounds better that way around.

--
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!

Re:Come on, guys by Zangief · 2004-11-12 02:49 · Score: 1

Yes, you can buy a "Relox", and you know that isn't the same thing.

But we are talking about a ROM, which is an exact copy of a game that Nintendo actually sells. So its theft. Period.

Stop trying to rationalize your urge to pirate things.
--
Wiki de Ciencia Ficcion y Fantasia
Re:Come on, guys by ThisNukes4u · 2004-11-12 03:15 · Score: 1

The difference is that the supermarkets either make a cereal that is SIMILIAR but not quite exactly the same or have an agreement to repackage name-brand food as their own brand. What these counterfeters are doing is completely wrong, as they are taking complete rips without liscense and selling them for a profit, and making them look like an offical Nintendo product.

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thisnukes4u.net
Re:Come on, guys by ajs318 · 2004-11-12 03:53 · Score: 1

What these counterfeters are doing is completely wrong, as they are taking complete rips without liscense and selling them for a profit, and making them look like an offical Nintendo product
But then your sig says
Please do your part and become a libertarian today.
And it's at this point that I'm confused because you appear to be contradicting yourself. In a Libertarian society, there would not exist the artificial concept we understand as "intellectual property". All ideas, once expressed, would immediately enter the Public Domain. This is pretty much how things actually used to be, once upon a time.

An idea -- unlike, let's say, a packet of cereal or a cake -- is not diminished by the act of sharing. If I have a lit candle, and you have an unlit candle which you light from the flame of my lit candle, my room does not get any darker than it was before you lit it. And if, after you have left my room, some third party light a candle from the flame of yours, my room still does not get any darker.

Under the present, restrictive regime, there are laws to restrict copying because it interferes with a corporation's ability to make money. Such a concept runs essentially counter to Libertarian beliefs. In a Libertarian society you would have to deal with the idea that someone else could take an idea you thought of, improve on it a little and make more money selling it than you did -- with only the thought that you could do exactly the same thing to them for consolation.

So, which way do you want to have it? Intellectual Property or Libertarianism? You can't eat your cake and have it, you know.

--
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
Re:Come on, guys by El+Camino+SS · 2004-11-12 04:05 · Score: 3, Insightful

We're always told how America is the Land of the Free Market and Government Regulation is a Bad Thing. Yet the instant someone tries practising free-market economics for real over there, they're suddenly evil. What the hell difference is there between this type of counterfeiting, and what every supermarket is doing with its "own brand" copies of bestselling goods anyway? Isn't Tesco Rich Blend Instant Coffee just counterfeit Nescafé? Aren't Sainsbury's Rice Pops just counterfeit Kellogg's Rice Krispies? What's the freakin' difference already?

There is a differene between competition, and outright theft. These people are selling software. Someone else's software. They are not selling a controller insomuch as it gets you the software.

The difference is, if you make your own coffee that tastes like another, it actually requires effort to do it. Getting beans. Comparing styles. You can even say, "Tastes like our competitor!" on the outside.

They are not selling knock offs, they are selling stolen originals in a new casing.

There is no effort other than buying the crap device to put the ROMs in. They are not selling the crap device, they are selling someone else's product. If you could instantly copy a Coca-Cola for free infinite times, and then put it in a can that is cheaper, then you could have a comparison. But you cannot. There is no way to compare software (which is what they are selling, not the controller) with food items. Coffee is coffee. Video games require ingenuity to make them. If you think that the beans and software are comparable in any way, may I humbly suggest you stay out of the business world.

Your argument is specious at best.
Re:Come on, guys by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 04:14 · Score: 0

Go learn the difference between copyrights and trademarks.

Don't comment again until you understand what they are, why the are, and how they apply.
Re:Come on, guys by ajs318 · 2004-11-12 04:44 · Score: 1

Yes, writing software takes effort. Might I humbly suggest that, if you don't like the idea that that effort may go unrewarded if you choose to charge too high a price for your implementation of it, then you shouldn't make the effort in the first place?

You don't have an automatic right to get money just because something you do is hard. That's just a lie that Capitalist governments tell you in order to make you work harder for them. Now, when you read that you probably got angry and resentful. Please try to understand that your anger and resentment are not at me for being all calm and serene while pointing out the truth, but at yourself for believing the lie for so long. Knowing this, you can turn them into something positive and help to change the system so that in future nobody has to suffer the same way.

--
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
Re:Come on, guys by ThisNukes4u · 2004-11-12 04:44 · Score: 1

But I am also a realist, and there are intellectual property laws in the world right now, and even though I may not agree with some of them, that doesn't mean that I will break the law just because I do not agree. There are other ways to fight what you do not like, such as supporting a party that believes in what you believe in. I do not believe that the government has the power to collect income taxes, but I pay them because it is the law. That doesn't mean that I am not working to reverse those laws which I do not agree with.

--
thisnukes4u.net
Re:Come on, guys by poot_rootbeer · 2004-11-12 05:39 · Score: 1

Aren't Sainsbury's Rice Pops just counterfeit Kellogg's Rice Krispies? What's the freakin' difference already?

Puffed rice cereal can't be copyrighted. Your analogy is just silly.

just maybe if perhaps "official" stuff wasn't so overpriced, there might be a chance that people perhaps wouldn't feel so much of an urge to counterfeit it, possibly.

Tell me about it. The only reason people are buying these bootleg Famicom clones is because it costs HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS to buy a brand new NES and ten to fifteen cartridges. You're ENTIRELY off the point.

Look, copyright law currently says that those "big rich corporations" CAN have their cake and eat it. (As can any content creator large or small, but that's another argument.) If you believe in the rightness of the law, follow it. If you don't, lobby to have it changed. But defiance of the law doesn't win the bootleg makers any brownie points, even if they shroud themselves in the veil of civil disobedience. Breaking the law is breaking the law.
Re:Come on, guys by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 06:03 · Score: 0

But defiance of the law doesn't win the bootleg makers any brownie points, even if they shroud themselves in the veil of civil disobedience. Breaking the law is breaking the law.
If you understand a law, understand the consequences of violating it, disagree with it, and can't get it changed, you should break it. Whether or not these dudes are out to make a buck or a change is debatable, though.
Re:Come on, guys by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 06:11 · Score: 0

Er, you do know that Tesco and Sainsbury don't make instant coffee or rice pops, right? Which means they buy it from someone that does, such as Nescafe, or Kelloggs, and re-brand it with their own name. All nice and legal and paid for....
Re:Come on, guys by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 08:00 · Score: 0

Why don't you first stop simplying the shit out of everything because you're not intelligent enough to put any thought into it?
Re:Come on, guys by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 08:04 · Score: 0

So if I wrote a Mario Bros clone but made my own graphics (which look almost identical to the original) and made the maps as close to the originals as I could, you think they'd leave me alone?

Hell no. So why bother? They don't give you any incentive to even do it your way. The system has failed and these knock offs are a result of it. Reap what you sow, ya know.
Re:Come on, guys by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 08:07 · Score: 0

How about you don't comment again until you've learned that free thought is a good thing and always thinking within the confines of the existing system are a sure way not to progress.
Re:Come on, guys by drinkypoo · 2004-11-13 04:26 · Score: 1

Here's a question I find interesting: Would it be legal to produce a device which took a flash ram cartridge you could attach to your computer (I prefer MMC, but anything will do) and fill up with ROMS, and then advertise the compatibility? That way they could focus on creating the hardware, and include only freely available ROMs. I'm not sure how many fan-developed NES games there are but I bet most of them are in the public domain or available through a fairly permissive license.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:Come on, guys by blueskies · 2004-11-15 04:50 · Score: 1

We're always told how America is the Land of the Free Market and Government Regulation is a Bad Thing. Yet the instant someone tries practising free-market economics for real over there, they're suddenly evil.

Nice strawman. No one said they are evil for practising free-market economics.

What the hell difference is there between this type of counterfeiting, and what every supermarket is doing with its "own brand" copies of bestselling goods anyway?

I think you misunderstand the difference between a real world copy and a digital copy. When a supermarket sells their own brand, such as bread, they actually have to make bread. They don't download a copy of someone else's bread. I think you need to try and understand why they call it copyright infringement and not stealing.

It's all very well to say that if you're poor and have principles, you should do without;

Do without? For Christ's sake! We are talking about a luxury item. Damn right, do without. Suck it up and do without. Welcome to reality.

Not piracy but... by skeletonliar · 2004-11-11 23:10 · Score: 3, Interesting

One thing I have always wondered about is my local Software Etc.'s policy of selling games (usually GBA games) after they cross out the "NOT FOR RESALE" mark on the label with a sharpie. First of all, where do these games come from in the first place? Bundles? Demo units? Secondly, while I doubt that little mark is legally binding, you figure Nintendo would try and put a stop to it if they found out. Having gone through all the trouble of printing special labels and all.

--
"Watching Access Hollywood is like driving 10 SUVs!" -- Al Sharpton

Re:Not piracy but... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 17:19 · Score: 0

They come from demo units, and they're the property of Nintendo. They are almost exclusively traded in by crooked store managers who swipe them out of the demo units and trade them in to their own store. Nintendo tolerates that only because they need the units in the stores more than they care about one more used copy of pokemon floating around.
Re:Not piracy but... by drinkypoo · 2004-11-13 04:29 · Score: 1

They are bundled with video game systems, and they're the property of the person who bought the system, until they sell them to the store for a paltry amount of cash or credit. Nintendo "tolerates" this because they have no legal recourse against someone selling something to which they are legally entitled. The games are typically not marked for retail sale but the retailers slap their own barcode and used price on them anyway.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"

They're not _all_ just pirated ROMs... by tuxedobob · 2004-11-11 23:21 · Score: 5, Interesting

I called today (with my own report), and the guy I talked to said they'd also been getting calls from people who had bought them and wanted some support.

It seems not all the ROMs are complete. Some give up after a certain level, so you can't finish the game. As a result, Nintendo is getting calls.

Considering it costs money to keep people on the phones, and they're getting calls for something that isn't actually theirs, yeah, I can see how they'd be losing money on these things even if they weren't rereleasing some of the games.

You are correct, sir. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 23:46 · Score: 0

Yes, you are right on the money i think. Nintendo has long been a "trusted" company to me. It started for me with the original NES: good games. Not just pretty graphics (and they are), but *real*, actual game play and plots and the like. Some may argue Contra was a bit light on the plot, but hey, it was fun as hell. The games have gotten better (albeit strange at times) and just really fun to play....all the way on up to the 64.

Last month, i was looking at getting a PS1 so i could put the hundred or so games my gf has to use. She suggested getting a PS2 b/c it can still play those old PS1 games and the new ones too. i swear i'm not makin this up....she really did suggest it.

But, i'm not going to...and here's why: Nintendo is due for a new console before too long. Start the hype early next year for a fall/winter release perhaps? Like i know, but hey, i am *not* buying a PS2 at this time for that reason only: to see what Nintendo will bring out next. Why? Because i *know* for fact they won't roll that thing out unless it has some top of the line games for it first...and no one makes more enjoyable games than Nintendo.

Course i've not even covered 5% of the world map in my Morrowind (PC) install....i may never need a console!

Anyway, just wanted to weigh-in and let you know i fully agree with you, Nintendo has something going for them and they put out good stuffs.

Re:You are correct, sir. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 07:04 · Score: 0

Up Up down Down left right left right B A Select Start.. The most fun way to play contra (with a friend, 99 lives each)

Re: Wrong mistake... by Luigi30 · 2004-11-11 23:52 · Score: 5, Interesting

The PS1 *WAS* going to be a Nintendo console. It was a Sony-developed add-on for the SNES. When SEGA's CD system failed, Nintendo rethought it and told Sony they didn't want it anymore. Sony had to do something with this CD-based system, so they turned it into a standalone console and released it.

--
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The Signature could not be accessed. Please try again later or contact the administrator

These guys have huge profit margins. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-11 23:59 · Score: 0

It wouldn't be so bad if these things were going for $30, but in the mall near my house (Lloyd Center Portland, OR) they're going for $69.99 a pop!!! Come on, you can't tell me they're paying $35 each for them and doubling up on the price. They're so shoddily made that I'd be surprised if they paid more than $15 each. I think we should all go to our local malls and offer to buy them for $20 or threaten to turn them in hehehe.

Nintendo has been listening by BlastM · 2004-11-12 00:09 · Score: 2, Informative

Do you mean this realistic Zelda?

Nintendo has been listening to it's fans. If you are interested in the new GameCube Zelda game, you have to check out this trailer, it's completely amazing, but I think it hasn't received enough attention because it was overshadowed by the DS at E3.

Supporting Terrorism by Surak_Prime · 2004-11-12 00:10 · Score: 1

I've heard that some of these knock-off products that violate IP laws are made overseas by regimes that support terrorism, and then brought here to sell to us at flea markets and (unsuspecting?) retailers to bring in extra cash to support terrorism. Might just be propaganda, but it is EFFECTIVE propaganda, 'cause I'll make the call to turn them in every chance I get.

The only IP violations I support are the ones that don't want any money from me, 'cause they can't turn around and use it against me. Admittedly, "they" might be making free P2P programs to undermine the U.S. entertainment-based economy - but I'M not that subtle. ;)

--
:::The Spear in the heart of the Other is the Spear in the heart of You; You are He - Surak of Vulcan:::

Obligatory Penny Arcade Link by CastrTroy · 2004-11-12 00:22 · Score: 2, Funny

Yes, I like punctuation too. :)

--

Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.

Why pick on China? by malsdavis · 2004-11-12 00:54 · Score: 1

What cr@p,

Do you know what percentage of China's GDP and exports are produced using actual slave and prison labour?

Figures are hard to come by but they all indicate that it is far less than 1%.

Sure, 'Sweat Shops' and the like (where people are paid dismal amounts by western standards) contribute a LOT to China's export market. But people arn't forced to work in these places. They work there because its still preferable to not eating.

Besides, America has millions of people working on extremely low wages in it's factories. In fact, if you compare the cost of living and average household weath between America and China it becomes apparent that many of the workers sweating it out in American factories arn't on that much a better deal than their Chinese counterparts!

Niether workers get access to health care (whether public or company based) and neither get access to many other basic rights that are assumed in more meritocratic countries such as Western European ones.

So why does the US like trading so much with China?

Same reason North Korea likes to sell missles to Iran and such, none of the countries really care about the morality of the whole situation as long a packet load of money is made (and everyone gets their cheap Chinese toys which break after 3 weeks).

Nobody likes a snitch by nurb432 · 2004-11-12 00:54 · Score: 1, Flamebait

Take them out back, and teach them to mind their own damned business.

One of the main problems of todays world, people ( and governments ) cant keep their nose out of others affairs..

--
---- Booth was a patriot ----

Re:Nobody likes a snitch by KarmaMB84 · 2004-11-12 01:17 · Score: 1

But yet, if I assaulted you or robbed you and someone witnessed it, you'd expect them to stick their noses in my affairs? :p
Re:Nobody likes a snitch by nurb432 · 2004-11-12 01:30 · Score: 1

Actually, no. I take care of myself, and wouldnt ask for others to be involved.

Also, you are comparing a criminal issue with a civil issue.. Not a fair comparison.

--
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Re:Nobody likes a snitch by PhoenixFlare · 2004-11-12 01:31 · Score: 1

Take them out back, and teach them to mind their own damned business.

One of the main problems of todays world, people ( and governments ) cant keep their nose out of others affairs..

Little upset that you might have to pay full price for something and actually support the company that made it?
Re:Nobody likes a snitch by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 04:56 · Score: 0

And "nobody" likes people unlawfully making a quick buck off of someone else's hard work, making a shitty product, and ripping people off for $70+.
Re:Nobody likes a snitch by Impotent_Emperor · 2004-11-12 08:15 · Score: 1

Selling copyrighted material for money is a criminal issue.

Unauthorized copying and/or distribution (with no exchange of money or anything of value) is a civil matter.
Re:Nobody likes a snitch by nurb432 · 2004-11-12 08:44 · Score: 1

I was speaking from my point of view of how I feel it should be, not the legal point of view.

Actually, even simple copying, if it exceeded an abstract monetary worth level, is considered a federal criminal issue..

--
---- Booth was a patriot ----

Re:China: Morally Bankrupt Society by Fig,+formerly+A.C. · 2004-11-12 00:55 · Score: 1

The difference is that the Africans were selling their own into slavery, the Tibetan population were simply victims- first of their elite rulers, then of Communist China. Ironically, the Commnunist state really did improve their lot in life.

--
Murphy was an optimist.

I'm telling miss! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 01:16 · Score: 0

People informing on each other 'grassing' yes, brilliant I'm sure welcome the day when your neighbour reports you to the authorities on something spurious...

Wrongggg by first.last · 2004-11-12 01:20 · Score: 0, Funny

I always turn in people for sharing Brittney Spears, Madonna, Eminem, Kid Rock, Metallica, ABBA, Michael Bolton and Kenny G.

--
Wishing I was a millionaire since 1969.

Rediculous... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 01:26 · Score: 0

They'll bring terrorism into everything these days, I'd be very skeptical about that, like there are factories in the far east ran by Al Qaida ...it seems rediculous

Everyone by dlZ · 2004-11-12 01:34 · Score: 1

Everyone needs to keep on Nintendo to get rid of all these horrible pirated copies. Then I can take over the local mall's kiosk and start selling my high quality game systems. I will be selling the Minisoft Y-Box, the Suny Playerstation, and the Newtendo GameSquare. All will be priced at a low low LOW $79.99 per system and only $19.99 per game!

--
rm -rf ./evidence @ punkcomp

Nope by nurb432 · 2004-11-12 01:58 · Score: 1

I'm upset that people cant mind their own business anymore. THAT is my issue with this. Everyone thinks they need to go out and stir up trouble and stick their nose where it doesn't belong.

Personally, I don't play silly video games, so people making money off counterfeit Nintendo products doesn't really bother me a bit. And if I remember correctly, they used illegal tactics to get to where they are anyway, and shouldn't be in business. ( they lost the case brought against them some time ago for what they did in the 80's to the other game makers such as Atari and Sega )

--
---- Booth was a patriot ----

Re:Nope by PhoenixFlare · 2004-11-12 02:07 · Score: 1

I'm upset that people cant mind their own business anymore. THAT is my issue with this. Everyone thinks they need to go out and stir up trouble and stick their nose where it doesn't belong.

Seems a lot of people have a different definition of "where it doesn't belong" than you do.

Personally, I don't play silly video games, so people making money off counterfeit Nintendo products doesn't really bother me a bit. And if I remember correctly, they used illegal tactics to get to where they are anyway, and shouldn't be in business. ( they lost the case brought against them some time ago for what they did in the 80's to the other game makers such as Atari and Sega )

They did wrong, paid for it, and that means they shouldn't be in business? Right.
Re:Nope by nurb432 · 2004-11-12 02:29 · Score: 1

I think that the penalty for pulling stunts like Nintendo did should be total dissolution of their company, and their directors striped of all funds they made from said company. ( I would almost say jail time, but that would be crossing the line between civil and criminal, a concept which I'm opposed too )

As far as people that don't agree with me about where their nose belongs? I don't care about them, and if they stick their nose in my business, they will get it chopped off.

--
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Re:Nope by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 02:43 · Score: 0

Climb out of your parent's basement and join the rest of us in the world when you come of age.

The Way Things Work by Marc2k · 2004-11-12 02:12 · Score: 2, Insightful

Your quaint story aside, one has nothing to do with the other. Realize that now in the age where CD and even DVD recorders exist, the video game industry has just recently surpassed the film industry in terms of revenue. Halo 2 is now the highest grossing (maybe in the shortest amount of time, something like that) media item ever.

There's no hard luck among the major players, least of all Sony. If the quality has gone down in games, it's because the big media publishers have realized just how big a buck can be made from games. Just like when the film and music industry big boys figured this out, they've begun to sell you the most efficient media available: old wine in new bottles. If the quality's gone down of late, it's they've found (in enough cases to make them a profit, anyway) that innovation doesn't usually have as high a yield as simply putting out the same crap over and over again.

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--- What

Re:The Way Things Work by Zangief · 2004-11-15 11:29 · Score: 1

Halo 2 is now the highest grossing (maybe in the shortest amount of time, something like that) media item ever.

Mmm. I guess Halo 2 is the fastest selling Xbox game in history.

If you say that is something more than that, you are just a Microsoft zealot. If you say that is less than that, you are just a anti Microsoft zealot. Period.
Re:The Way Things Work by geminidomino · 2004-11-15 15:23 · Score: 1

If you say that is less than that, you are just a anti Microsoft zealot. Period.

Not true. You might just be a HL fanboi. ;)
Re:The Way Things Work by Zangief · 2004-11-16 05:41 · Score: 1

Or just a Halo 2 Fanboy
--
Wiki de Ciencia Ficcion y Fantasia

My local mall had one of these outfits... by Stick_Fig · 2004-11-12 02:13 · Score: 1

...but they disappeared just this week when I walked in. Strangest thing. Now I know why. Having a little knowledge about pirated Nintendo systems, I'd say they were pieces of generic crap. I'm surprised they survived on the market as long as they did, seeing as they're no doubt illegal.

--
ShortFormBlog: Writing a little. Saying a lot.

This is a Kiosk Near Me by rhkaloge · 2004-11-12 02:22 · Score: 1

I've seen these - I think there is one in most malls around here in the North Philly burbs. I thought they were pretty much like the atari controllers with the 10 games in them. The difference being there is only 1 game, and it looks like CRAP. I figured it was an enterprising way to use up the last remaining N64 controlers.

Not all of them... by InfinityWpi · 2004-11-12 02:31 · Score: 1

As of last weekend, there was still one in Fargo, ND's West Acres Mall and I counted a total of -three- at the Mall of America... and I didn't cover the entire mall. One on the third floor, two on ground level. I mean, christ, I thought it was bad they had two Gamestops, two Panda Express, two Vickie's Secrets, and four Claires... but three of these rip-off made-in-China-we-think, easily-breakable plastic places? Yikes.

Re:Not all of them... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 03:57 · Score: 0

There's still a kiosk as of thursday nov.11th at Emerald Square Mall in North Attleboro, MA.

I wish I'd heard about this sooner! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 02:34 · Score: 0

No kidding.... my birthday was on Monday, and my little brother bought me one of these. It's actually a funny unit. When you turn it on, it claims "12000 in ONE!"

There's about 80 games on there, but sure enough, the screen lists 12000 games -- if you choose certain options, instead it loads one of the 80 core games, but on a later level. (for instance, Paperboy that starts on Sunday instead of Monday)

He actually bought two of them, one for me and one for his girlfriend. What's even cooler than having roughly 80 Nintendo games I loved as a young'un is the fact that the back of the controller actually has a cartridge slot that appears as though it would take an actual 8-bit Nintendo cart.

Anyhow, there's no doubt that I've got the same one Nintendo is suing over -- there's no brand name on it anywhere, the controller looks just like the N64 one, and I kept saying to my brother, "Holy shit, I can't believe one company could license ALL these games!"

And I guess I was right. !

If you haven't seen one, they also come with a second controller which looks a lot like an old Genesis controller, and a light gun that looks like something Woody from Toy Story would carry.

Re:I wish I'd heard about this sooner! by scribblej · 2004-11-12 02:38 · Score: 1

Oops, that was me, I accidentally posted as AC -- I'm not taking credit now to whore karma or anything, just so you can ask me if there's any details I left out about the thing.

Ok Piracy by JoshDev · 2004-11-12 02:43 · Score: 1

It's interesting to read the different definitions people have of piracy. It seems that the general consensus is that selling pirated goods is wrong while sharing pirated goods for free is alright. I must say I'm more aligned with this view myself as I look at it this way. In the example of Nintendo, I'm a loyal customer who continually puts money into their new systems that come out and because of this I don't feel like I'm doing something wrong when I play old NES games on the emulator on my computer. Is exacting extra perks really that wrong?

This coming from the company that stole Tetris by Jagasian · 2004-11-12 03:03 · Score: 1

Nintendo is as bad as Disney: argue for IP rights as long as it benefits them, but skirt and play down IP rights when it does not. Nintendo with Tetris and Disney with Winnie the Pooh: both were not made by them, but were in aquired in otherwise shadey ways.

Re:This coming from the company that stole Tetris by UWC · 2004-11-12 03:47 · Score: 1

From what I've read (admittedly, this was in a book about Nintendo), the Tetris deal was shady on many if not all sides due to many a crazy misunderstanding and broad interpretations of licensing and use rights. Not saying that Nintendo wasn't doing anything wrong, but they weren't the only ones creatively interpreting their licenses.

--
Honor Among Slackers. A veri
Re:This coming from the company that stole Tetris by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 03:58 · Score: 0

>Disney with Winnie the Pooh

n 1929, Milne sold the Pooh merchandising rights to an American promoter named Stephen Slesinger.

In 1961, the Walt Disney Corporation bought film and other rights to the character.

What's shady about that, exactly?
Re:This coming from the company that stole Tetris by Jagasian · 2004-11-12 07:02 · Score: 1

Disney is supposed to pay royalties to the Pooh estate, but they stopped doing so, claiming that the copyright has worn out. This is shadey because the same could be said for most of Disney's IP.

Totally disagree... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 03:04 · Score: 1, Insightful

You said...

"In that case, copyright violation might be a legal issue, but never an ethic or moral one."

So in your opinion there is nothing morally or ethically wrong with filesharing of copyrighted movies and music?

"Many people feel they aren't harming anyone when they copy a work that they wouldn't spend any money to buy, under any circumstances. "

IMO this statement is false, many more people would buy the movies, music, games, etc. if they were not freely available on the internet. To believe that all of the filetraders would simply turn off their stereos, stop playing their Xboxes, unplug their PC's and go read a book because they can no longer download warez, mp3's, movies, etc. seems completely ridiculous. While I am sure a few would escew all forms of entertainment, the majority would begin to buy again.

A good example...

An aquaitance of mine who deals in this sort of stuff, downloaded Halo 2 (French version) to "try it out before he bought it". "Great game" he said, I need to go preorder it. Now the English version hits the warez sites...do you think he is pre ordering it anymore...no! This is a sale lost! I can guarantee he would have purchased it had the English version not been released to the newsgroups.

Personally I find his attitudes despicable. He is more than able to purchase software, as it is not a monetary issue, but he has no impetus to because it is all available at the click of a mouse and better yet...it's free.

Masonville? by Mastagunna · 2004-11-12 03:13 · Score: 1

Saw one there last night, 75 games, 70 bucks, an looked cheaper then the stuff they had in Thai Land 5 years ago. Still wish I bought one in Thai Land for 12 bucks.

You are right, sorta by Mastagunna · 2004-11-12 03:28 · Score: 1

The PS1 was going to be an addon, but what we got was the PSX. Which is a totally different system, that unlike the PS1 did not use the SNES, and was also a lot more powerful. They totally redeveloped it to form the PSX, but used the knowledge and investment they already had.

Not until the PS2 came out and did the relable it PSONE, was it ever called PS1.

Re: Wrong mistake... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 03:29 · Score: 0

Actually SNES CD happened before Sega CD. Sony had issues with Nintendo on the royalty fees for the SNES CD games. Nintendo told Sony that they get 0% and only hardware sales (Which never makes a company money). Sony pulled out of the deal because of this.

Remember Namco? These are the guys who gave life to the NES by porting their Arcade titles to it. Nintendo screwed them over by doubling their royalty fees. This is why Sony and Namco teamed together for the PS1. The PS1 hardware was used in the Tekken machines and the PS1 slogan was "Powered by Namco"

Remember Square? Well they were screwed by Nintendo on Mario RPG and decided to jump ship to Sony who courted them with Exclusivity Bonus and lower royality fees.

Wonder who else Nintendo has screwed! They sound a lot like Microsoft!

So I guess the lesson learned here is... by Axis+of+Weasel · 2004-11-12 03:49 · Score: 0

produce quality products that inspire loyalty in people and not only will they choose not to participate in piracy, but they will try to prevent it.

either that or despite numerous fallacies, human beings are generally good in nature.

i'd prefer to think the former myself :P

--

this sig has been discontinued.

Re: Wrong mistake... by Schnapple · 2004-11-12 04:36 · Score: 1

Not exactly - what really happened is of course still in dispute forever, but the version I repeatedly hear is that Nintendo hires Sony to make a SNES-CD addon, and Sony gets the idea to make a 32-bit CD console with a SNES cart slot. They figure they can bully Nintendo into doing it their way. Nintendo doesn't cave and as a result Sony continues with their idea, sans SNES slot. The project was codenamed "PlayStation" originally but without Nintendo it was re-codenamed "PlayStation X" or PSX - thus the acronym.

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Schnapple

Re: Wrong mistake... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 04:44 · Score: 0

Actually, Nintendo illegally pulled out of the contract with Sony cause they realized they'd get less royalties from software. Sony redesigned the Playstation from scratch and sold it. Its nothing like the SNES add on.

Re: Wrong mistake... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 04:48 · Score: 0

Actually, Nintendo left Sony cause Nintendo would get less royalties, Sony did not leave or do the bullying

Re: Wrong mistake... by TechniMyoko · 2004-11-12 04:51 · Score: 1

Vice versa, Nintendo would get less royalties so they pulled out, not Sony.

Fuck Nintendo. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 05:21 · Score: 0

Their European branch has been a corrupt, corporate elitist piece of shit for nigh on 10 years now, they deserve every lost penny they get. Read this letter I wrote to them to see my stance:

http://ctci.digibase.ca/noe_suck.html

--- Overlord

Not surprising at all. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 05:27 · Score: 0

As former liaison to senior legal counsel at Playboy, I saw dozens of reports come in weekly from loyal fans who submitted sites containing copyrighted material.

There's a fanaticism that's unparalleled when people have brand loyalty.

They don't want the object/company of their affection diluted or "abused" in any way. it's a great thing.. and something even so little as a "thank you" from a Playboy staffer goes a long long way.

If Nintendo gives nods back to those who report, they will have lifelong loyal watchers all over the planet.

And they do.

Re:Hardware by CumInHerTaco · 2004-11-12 07:06 · Score: 1

You're living in a fucking van out by the ocean

Chris Farley voice

When all your software gets pirated, you'll be livin' in a van down by the river!

/Chris Farley voice

--
The only way to end war is for everyone to get a piece!

I LOVE TEH SUBJECT LINE TROOL! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 07:45 · Score: 0

Yuo are my hero!

That was tricky, he was in Russia by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 08:32 · Score: 0

Pretty much everything connected with Russia and commerce is shady.

I reported one.. by SteveXE · 2004-11-12 12:44 · Score: 0

I work in a mall and there is one of these kiosks there...which i reported to Nintendo last week. Now this isnt really a matter of piracy for me, i have no problem with people downloading games, pirating whatever they want so long as i dont get in trouble for it...the point was the guys selling these things are ripping people off. What is cost on one of these $5 at most? How high quality can they be...some guy downloads some roms, an emulator, puts then on a chip, solders it into a controller, little code here and there and its ready to be mass produced by 30 kids in some rat infested basement...yea here is some money to keep that operation afloat How long will these things last? Are they as durable as a Nintendo product? Of course not, they will probably break after a month or so, and as we all know right after the Holiday seasons these kiosks will disapear and a shitload of people will have broken units with no way to get a repair or replacement...

Just like cocaine... by Pugflop · 2004-11-12 12:53 · Score: 1

Plant some Nintendo ROMs on someone's PC, and call the snitches / cops. Ooh yea! Ransom and blackmail time! >:-)

My Personal Experiences... by michaelzhao · 2004-11-12 13:40 · Score: 3, Interesting

I am Chinese. Every year I go back to China, I pick up GBA Games for 2 Dollars American. It's not the fact that the Chinese government doesn't do anything. It's more of the fact that intellectual property rights are not developed in China. Also, many Chinese people have a mindset that the American companies are exploiting Chinese resources and manpower so what the workers make rightly belong to them anyways. So many DVD's and GBA games are pirated under that circumstance. Fighting piracy isn't anything new, but it might take longer than previously thought to win this battle in developing third world countries such as China. The way to win this battle, is to make sure these developing countries have a means of passing and enforcing intellectual property rights.

overpriced? don't buy. people like free by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-12 15:15 · Score: 0

If you think its overpriced then don't buy,
its no excuse to violate copyright (or whatever you call it). as long as people can get free they'll take free,
or are you living on mars?

Re: Wrong mistake... by DeadScreenSky · 2004-11-12 18:57 · Score: 1

When SEGA's CD system failed, Nintendo rethought it and told Sony they didn't want it anymore.

That's a funny way to 'reimagine' it. At a Japanese game convention Nintendo revealed to everyone else that they were going with Philips for the CD add-on, which was quite a surprise (and embarrassment) to Sony, who was their contractual partner on the project at that point. Nintendo chose to perform this backstab because they were unhappy that the Playstation contract allowed Sony to license games for it.

--
There is no excellent beauty that hath not some strangeness in the proportion. -- Francis Bacon

Dear God indead. by Anonymous Coward · 2004-11-15 11:32 · Score: 0

Like the person who's confused about english is an idiot. You a fucking cristian jew boy, God was a lie just like santa and the boogy man, so grow up and stop activg likea psycotic freek.
Maybe take some acid, or mushrooms,try finding a single piece of technology that relies on God to function.

You are no better that the 'animals or plants' you are exactly the same, we weren't creted by God anymore that your presents came in a sledge dragged by flying raindear.

Hey, try getting some bacon (I know your a jew boy, but try just once)and burning it, then burn yourself, smell the same? tase the same you are the fucking same twat.

Like you've got a fucking clue to start with.

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Nintendo's Lawsuits Aided by Fans

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