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Students Tracked By RFID
TheMeuge writes "The New York Times is
reporting
a new development in the unrelenting progress of the
RFID juggernaut. The school district
of
Spring, Texas has adopted RFID as a way to track students' arrival and
departure. Upon being scanned, the data are transmitted to both the school
administrators, as well as city police. I guess cutting class is no longer an
option."
If you want to track people, why not just tattoo a bar code on the forehead.
It should be easier to cut class now. Just give your tag to your buddy, and the school's computers will think your there.
If I were still in High School I think i would be scared of this. RFID technology seems great for tracking shippments and such, but to track students like this seem pretty insane.
How prejudice and invasive technologies always attack those who cannot defend themselves first. I give it 5 years and you'll see rfid on vehicles or national id's. I mean you have a license plate now, whats the dif between that and rfid. right, right, nudge nudge.
Thank you idiot america.
They won't be able to scan me as long as I hvae my tin foil hat on, right?
In Australia, they use now swipe cards to check attendance at schools. Swiping at a terminal brings up a mugshot of the student on the screen, so the staff member can perform a visual check to see why Abdul Habib has blue eyes and long blonde hair...
The friendliest digital photography forums on the net!
transmitted to both the school administrators, as well as city police
Don't the police have better things to do instead of tracking students? Like maybe fighting crime?
Yeah -- and do the same thing when they come for the Jews, right?
Fuckwit.
soon we'll be learning tons of ways to circumvent RFIDs. kids are very good at finding out ways to circumvent stuff like this. nomatter how good a system might be when it goes against lots of kids with a lot of time on there hands and new ways of thinking i wonder how long it will take b4 kids find away around this.
Where am I?
.
.
.
In the School
What do you want?
Information
Whose side are you on?
That would be telling . .
We want Information
You won't get it
By hook or by crook . .
We will
Who are you?
The new Number Two
Who is Number One?
You are Number Six
I am not a number . .
I'm a free man!
(Mocking laughter)
Philip
Signatures are broken
The official USA propaganda is that the rest of the world envy USA because of it's freedom. Well, I don't envy the freedom US authorities has to continously monitoring anyone for no reason at all.
Pretty freaky "Big Brother" stuff, but I guess its a good way to track students. But then I remember school being better when the trouble makers wern't there beating up us nerds..
I agree with your assessment that it's a good thing and I also share your dread at the predictable tin foil hat replies. However, "in you're not in a position to be affected by this.." is exactly the wrong attitude.
if you're not in the position to be affected by this, shut the hell up.....
Let me guess, if we don't that would make us unpatriotic as well???
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
Something tells me the black market in RFID jammers and duplicators is going to be rampant...
This is totally wrong. You are compelled by law to attend school. Most can't afford to NOT go to government school. Now the government is tagging people like animals.
Be VERY afraid of the first RFID generation, ones who grow up with this commonplace, who never knew an age without it. Who will thing we are a bunch of kooks for opposing it.
That is why those who want to social engineer people ALWAYS want to start with the schools...
Corporatism != Free Market
of law suits gone too far. It seems recently the trend has been to blame the school for whatever trouble a kid causes, and since the school may have difficulty tracking down individual students and whether or not they were on campus, the school may very well end up being responsible. At least this way the schools can say definitievely whether or not someone came(provided they actually still have their rfid, w hich may be a big assumption)
Monstar L
In an age when parents are suing schools for not keeping adequate track of their children (see http://www.overlawyered.com/archives/001699.html) is this any wonder?
If the student to teacher ratio is so large that the instructor can't even accurately take role, what is the level of education going to be like?
but the majority of responses to this come from people who are long out of school, don't have kids in one, but still think they should be able to dictate how schools are run.
Does the fact that despite all that I still have to PAY for them give me any voice at all in your world?
The real Ralph Yarro posts as Anonymous Coward. Anyone else is an impostor.
This is the sort of thing we would have screamed about if China had done it a few years ago and now we just accept it. The East is moving West as quickly as the West is moving East. Soon they will occupy the moral high ground.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
Unless the RFID tags are embedded in their skulls, then they can also be "lost, traded, broken, etc".
The real convenience is that the student doesn't have to make any effort to register in or out but to just ensure that they remember to carry their tag.
What happens with a faulty tag?
Will a student suffer a poor attendance record without recourse?
After all they might not find out until the end of year school report.
"...it must be true because the computer says so."
... that the RFID plan is fatally flawed. On any given day, the RFID system will be reporting a 50% absentee rate. The typical high school student is lucky enough to remember to bring his/her bookbag to school every day, much less a small, easily misplaced RFID card.
probably another reason why this could be a good thing. The danger here comes when governments try to extend this and that's where this is the thin end of the wedge. It may be a good thing but we'd be stupid to ignore the dangers it also brings.
---
We spoke for about a half an hour. I don't recall a thing we said. - Colorblind James Experience
We can all watch Matthew Broderick skip class and reminisce about the days when this used to be possible - it'll become a period piece of a bygone age, along with Remains of the Day and Little Women.
- a few schools have begun monitoring student arrivals and departures using technology similar to that used to track livestock and pallets of retail shipments.
And adults wonder why our kids aren't learning important ideas like responsibility...I was going to mod this as interesting but I think I would rather reply to it.
I think it's important to recognize that students (children, minors) are being entrusted to the public school system to make sure that while under their care, nothing bad happens to any student. They are, in essence, the largest daycare provider in any given area and they have a huge responsibility in keeping tracking and accounting of other people's children.
Now I can't say that it's a good thing that the information is fed to the local law enforcement agency unless there is a particular student they wish to keep track of and in that event, there should be some sort of formality associated with "I need to know when 'Johnny' came and went for the past two weeks and for the next two weeks from now." But to have that information fed to them on a regular basis feels kinda wrong.
But one thing to keep in mind -- while a person is a minor, there are no rights to privacy to speak of. The "rights" they might enjoy are whatever has been granted by their parents and/or the school system. I liken this to the same problem that students have with their "freedom of the press" rights in school newspapers -- while it's all well and good to want to exercise those rights, the fact remains that a school newspaper is a SCHOOL newspaper and as such is actually under the control and supervision of the school system, so guess who is in control of "freedom of the press" in that little world? Absolutely.
It just might be a good thing... I'd be interested to see what pitfalls are to be revealed by any of this.
Are these guys trying to piss off the volcano!?
Seriously, most proponents of RFID technology site its benefits in stock and supply line management only, and keep assurring us that RFID tags embedded in products will never be used to track people.
And yet we're now seeing instances of the middleman, i.e the product tag, being bypassed altogether and people being tagged outright. Is this really what RFID was developed for in the first place? Tracking people?
OK, these people are children. But that doesn't make this any less wrong. First criminals, then kids. They'll start on employees next, move it up to registered drivers, you'll see.
Of course tagging children has nothing to do with their safety. Anyone who says so is a liar or an idiot. As has been mentioned numerous times, the legions of pedophiles that lurk outside scholl gates every day will simply take off the tag, as will the kids when they want to leave for that matter. Of course the response from RFIDphiles is "Let's implant the tag subdermally!!!! FOREVER!!!! What a great(completeely consistent with a free society) idea!!!". *Sigh*. Why can't so many people think past their next meal?
The purpose of RFID tracking people is to cause a chilling effect. This is denied in the case of children and the public, but is the primary reason given for tagging criminals. Bit of a contridiction there. Effectively tagging children is a form of control, and an extreamly invasive one at that. I don't care what age I am, or who you are. No-one should know and have a documented record of my exact movements. Period. You want to protect your kids? Sit down and talk with them once in a while. Find out where they go rather than right clicking on a toolbar icon to see where they are. Don't squash their, or my, freedoms just because your too busy watching fear factor to look after your own kids.
And of course when I start using by blocker tag, I'll be accused of aiding pedophiles and endangering the children. Won't someone please think of the children!!? I am!
I'm ready for people to start with the tinfoil hat cracks, but to them I say, this is the exact kind of thing you said would never happen!! Well it's happening right now! What are you going to do about it.
RFID tracking is data rape.
May the Maths Be with you!
Again, if you send your kid to a private school of your liking you don't have to deal with this crap - and you'll get them a better education while you're at it. This will mean an easier time getting accepted at a better college, will lead to a more fulfilling career, a better quality of life, so on and so forth.
The RFID is probably one of the more minor problems the students at many of our public schools face.
What if they had spent that money on making kids want to go to school? I went to Texas public schools. No, I survived them. The one I attended was divided neatly into honors and regular classes. In the regulars classes, you learned how to take the TAAS (this test was required for graduation and pushed as a part of school accountability under the last federal administration). If you were in honors, you learned how to take the AP exam.
Needless to say, not many people were really turned on to learn. Because nothing of substance was being taught.
Personally, I think that large school reforms are in order. Let's divide students into classes with the type of instruction that suits them best. Let's not teach college prep to everyone, they'll resent it. Few people really connect with the idea of liberal arts anyway (even in college, I was a bit surprised) and it forms the basis for most highschool course requirements. Articles I've seen recently say that boys are doing poorly in American schools. It looks like all girls schools in England do significantly better than comparable coed schools, especially in math and science. Maybe gender segregation would help. Girls seem to be intimidated by boys in these subjects, and boys need more structure and encouragement. There's a lack of adolescent-to-adult ritual in our country. Maybe this could help provide what truant students are missing.
It would be preferable to humiliation like this RFID crap.
Use the Firehose to mod down Second Life stories!
Four hours later, the police knock on your door, saying they were called to the mall where your child was caught shoplifting on CCTV.
Are you going to blame the school for not ensuring that your child was under their supervision? I can probably guarentee that you'll say you won't, but the vast majority of parents will.
Where this is leading is required RFID implants. The requirement will initially start out with groups that most of us don't care about, like convicted felons. Next, maybe immigrants. Then it'll start creeping into other sectors of society. Eventually you'll see a wide range of jobs where this is required. Perhaps nursing, police and emergency workers. Then it will start to be required for normal activities. Like you won't be able to board an airline without an RFID implant. The initial selling point will be that it speeds up boarding. And then it'll be required for driver licenses. Can't be too secure after all. I think it's inevitable.
And I suppose the RFID's of the criminal element of the school will transmit data with the Evil Bit turned on? Shouldn't it be a word, or at least a few more bits?
000 - Nothing to see here.
001 - normal kid with mischevious mind. Watch for changes. May be intimidated back to 000 with minor police brutality.
010 - Thief. Arrest if lingering in the parking lot or around school supply cabinets.
011 - Fighter. Arrest if having an animated discussion with any 000's they don't normally congregate with or other 011's.
100 - Stabby. Arrest when outer perimiter metal detectors are set off. Notify cafeteria to dispense plastic silverware to the 100 and immediately surrounding 000's. Exhibits 011 behavior, follow guidelines accordingly.
101 - Brandisher. Arrest when outer perimiter detectors are set off and body mass = yesterday's + #g of any known gun + various # of bullets/magazines.Exhibits 011 behavior, follow guidelines accordingly.
110 - Shooter. Arrest immediately. If no gun is found, plant one or make an announcement that arresting them was the right thing to do.
111 - Dealer. "Accidently" shut fire doors on 111's crushing them to death. Accompany disposed of body with a 110, some stray bullets, and drug paraphenalia.
Yeah, they definately need more Evil Bits...
You are checking your backups, aren't you?
1- go to school
2- leave the RFID tag there (or wrap tinfoil in your arm if is subdermal)
3- leave the school
4- comit a crime
5- ???
6- profit
#5 could prety much be "don't worry with police. they think you were in school".
thei're just giving students an excelent, state sanctioned alibi.
i watched a movie once about a gang that used british prision system as alibi. they all comited light crimes (no more than 6 months jail time), then they broke of the jail, stole a roll of paper from the comapny that prints brit money, printed a batch of bills, hide the money, returned to jail.
when the police found about the stolen paper, they dismissed the gang as suspects because they were all in jail, end were still there.
do i see something like this happening in texas ?
What ? Me, worry ?
So here's the stat that just required the schoolbook publisher to make changes in their books so that now marriage is strictly a lifelong relationship between a man and a woman (BTW Texas has one of the highest divorce rates in the country) and another change to call evolution an unproven theory.
Now we have soccermoms micromanaging their own children's every movement with an eye in the sky.
Welcome to George Bush's America.
This is just a slight example of how ill-directed our administrator's are. They are easily blinded by people who have even the slightest ability to market a service or product, and I would not be in the least surprised to see that my class mates are all tagged with RFID in some form or fashion at the start of the next school year.
Physics makes the world go 'round.
Why use a knife? Find a little poison ivy or something similar, get yourself a bad rash on and around the area implanted, and claim you are having an allergic reaction. They will take it out. Get everyone else in school to do the same.
You have the poison ivy, you know what to do with the people who don't play along.
As they realise that:
Oops!
"The Milliard Gargantubrain? A mere abacus - mention it not."
And make sure your state doesn't mess with the homeschool law(s).
It's not like there's really any educational excellence to be missed there (the fallacy of the false alternative). Public schools don't have the power to protect your kids, and as this story illustrates, you wouldn't want them to have the kind of power that they would need anyway.
When the district unanimously approved the $180,000 system, neither teachers nor parents objected ... Rather, parents appear to be applauding. "I'm sure we're being overprotective, but you hear about all this violence," said Elisa Temple-Harvey, 34, the parent of a fourth grader. "I'm not saying this will curtail it, or stop it, but at least I know she made it to campus."
"We've been fortunate; we haven't had a kidnapping," Mr. Weisinger said. "But if it works one time finding a student who has been kidnapped, then the system has paid for itself."
So, let me see if I get this right -- crime rates have been going down for years and are at historical lows, but people are worried more than ever about crimes they "hear about."
Without investigating, I'd wager that the odds of being kidnapped are much lower than than those of being struck by lightning, lower still than being run over by a car at a crosswalk, and lower still that little Johnny or Susie will drop out of school altogether.
Maybe the money would be better spent on textbooks? Or teachers? Nah ... let's spend money to fix a problem we don't really have so that we can satisfy the need to believe we're doing something. For the children's sake, of course.
we (parents, teachers, students, employers, etc.. are going to lose in this.
I am a teacher, parent & employers of 16-23 year olds. We've set the education system up for failure, and it will continue to fail at amazing rate as desperate "solutions" such as this are thrown at the system until it kills a substantial percentage of the nation's youth.
first and foremost- I'm going to say I blame the parents. (woohoo! watch that karma drop!) none of this would be necessary if the children were taught, or had it modeled for them, or had the values embedded in them that education was of value. That and the parents are going to have to suck it up and be the bad guy, be the hardass, be the one make certain the child is held accountable for their actions.
A large part of the problem is that the system relieves parents of their duties of parenting. And then in turn holds schools responsible, and then in turn holds teachers responsible.
But guess what, with all the responsibilities and duties and irrelevant tasks that have been placed on teachers- they have no time to teach. In fact, persons with any passion or desire to pass on knowledge and skills in a field are quickly driven out because they don't spend enough time doing attendance in the correct manner, because they don't spend enough time preparing children for a standardized test, because they don't document a complete and unique separate lesson plan/learning system FOR EACH CHILD.
Which, if we allowed those children to who really wanted to learn, to be in the classes of those who really wanted to teach... (in my opinion) making individual plans wouldn't be so bad because you're not trying to force material down the throat of a child who simply doesn't care. As teachers we can't make them care, and yet parents and then administrators, and even future employers, are blaming us for students coming out without a work ethic, without a sense of responsibility, pride in their work, or the common sense to believe that they should show up on time, or do the task they were given through to completion.
how's this relevant to the RFID tags? I used to live in Spring and taught in the district next to it. They're actually a pretty "calm" district comparatively. Not way out on the forefront of education, not in the ghettos. Just another suburban district on the outskirts of a large city. (I've heard rumor that even people in NY and LA recognize Houston as a "large city"). They have the luxury if you will, to try to throw new technology at old problems. they have some cash apparently, they're not having to spend it on metal detectors for every door, but tardiness and skipping? the tags them selves i would imagine are relatively cheap, and the scanners not too bad compared to some of the other ludicrous expenditures I've seen (and while teacher salaries fall in that category, its on the lower end of the spectrum).
I can see how easily this could be sold to a school board, teachers and administrators. School board finally has some means of knowing where every child is. Administrators don't have to spend a fraction of their existing resources to implement or monitor this new system, and if done right, teachers are no longer responsible for the tedious tasks of attendance. (which in and of itself wouldn't be a problem if you didn't have 35 kids all coming in tardy-with various levels/legitimacies of excuses). Only the poor tech resource folks are contemplating suicide.
But as another poster pointed out.. it does nothing for the kids except for give them something else to hate and manipulate. It doesn't hold them responsible for anything.
It doesn't actually DO anything.
The AC, in its exuberant urge to aid the flailing grammarian, doesn't have a grasp on basic comma usage, forsooth, as the AC itself left out a necessary comma, and demands the removal of a comma that is nestled snugly into its proper syntax. Go read Faulkner, sheesh.
the majority of responses to this come from people who are long out of school, don't have kids in one, but still think they should be able to dictate how schools are run.
These are the best people to run a school, next to the children themselves. They obviously remember what it felt like being a child with no rights and no power in an educational system that treats them like a cog in a giant conformity machine. When people have kids, they get a little irrational.Why do you think so many bad laws are passed because someone says "Won't somebody please think of the children!" They become overprotective, and send their kids off to what's essentially a day prison. What everyone forgets is that children are people too and have rights.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
The problem with it is, this is just another measure..under the guise of child safety..to take responsibility away from the parent of teaching the child that learning is valuable. We don't instill respect in our children for knowledge, then we use draconian measures to attempt to chain them to the learning process.
You know what that gets you from the average teenager?
The finger..
I work for a School District so I not only understand the need for some type of survalance and security I also am an advocate for it. If we had the funds to do so I would have a camera at every entrance, in every hall, and in every out of the way nook and crany. However tracking them like you would track shipments of merchandise or live stock is going overboard. In theory it seems a good idea but where would it end? Surely once the children have been tagged, whether it is strapped on or implanted, do you think that other places won't just start putting in rfid recievers to track them elsewhere? And how long do you think it would just be the children being tracked?
This seems to me like it could be a starting point for tracking other individules. At first maybe prisoners or employees, then maybe hospital patients and millitary personel. And who is to keep any one with a rfid reciever from tracking you. I am not trying to say this is a conspirisy I am warning that there is a very real possibility this will lead somewhere we do not wish to be. Would you really feel safer knowing that the government or other agencies could track criminals and ex-criminals so they would be less likely to commit a crime, if it meant that they were also tracking you? Even if a system like that wasn't abused, how willing would you be to have your whereabouts know 24 hours a day to someone.
Like I said I'm not trying to scare anyone into thinking this is a conspirisy I just am giving my opinion. Many people I am sure would point out other good reasons for this, like finding lost missing persons or locateing someone in a medical emergency or hundreds of other good reasons. And ultimatly anything can be used both for good and for bad. I just want you to ask yourselves, would you want to be tracked? Even if it could save your life?
I am not attempting to draw trolls and I did not mean this as flaimbait. This is just asking you to think if it was you in there position.
Thanks for reading,
~Petaris "The world is open. Are you?"
erm, kids don't have rights. thats why we don't let them vote....
Blacks don't have rights, that's why we don't let them vote
Women don't have rights, that's why we don't let them vote.
Of course children have rights. Rights are not granted by the state, but innate. Nothing really dramatic happens to a person on their 18th birthday suddenly endowing them with rights. They've had them all along, it's just the state finally recognizes them. It seriously troubles me that people like you, who apparently find children morally equivalent to livestock are responsible for their education.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
with apologies to Rev. Martin Niemoeller:
Fear the trend.
Second, in reply to I think this is a benefit to the people who want to track the students, not the students. These RFID badges can be lost just like any other swipe card, so they do not benefit students more than a swipe card.
You need to install an RTFM interface.
At lunch break, get 500 kids in a big group to run in and out through a few times. This is gonna create a LOT of traffic on the RFID system. Better still, get all the schools in the area to do the same thing at the same time.
Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated up.
So in the future, child abductors don't actually have to go out and look for children anymore. They just use their RFID scanner to find children of the age and gender they're looking for? How the hell is this a good idea?
an act in Congress making it a Felony to claim any measure, be it legal, technological, medical, etc. is to "protect the children" without statistically incontrovertible proof that children are being "harmed" in the first place.
No more "Family Movies Act of 2004" banning skipping of commercials. No more COPPA Act, keeping kids off the Internet. etc.
At work, how many of you have a badge with one of those key cards that automagically opens doors when you wave it past the little black reader doohicky with the light on it? Do you realize you have been handed the same anti-libertarian treatment as these kids for years and never complained? I don't think it is right to track people this way. It is amaizing how these technologies have already become every day things for most of us.
While I do agree that on general kids should be in school, and certain measures should be put up to make them.
However, nothing gets seriously broken by kids skipping classes very occasionally. How square are the kids supposed to be?
Kids that are allowed a certain freedom and have some possibility of opposing authority grow up far more interesting.
Just think how interesting you find a person who has never skipped class, never talked back at their parents etc.
The truth is, the parental generation have always tried to impose severe restrictions on the younger generation, and the younger generation have always broken them. This is the way of life. The moment we make it impossible for kids to break their parents rules, we have changed the game in a way I don`t think we see the consequences of.
It is ironic that we impose millions of laws and regulations, but the majority actually disrespects people that always live by them.
There are certain things every (semi) interesting person have done. If you have never done any of the following you need to get out more:
1. Skip class
2. Go above the speed limit
3. Take a u-turn where it wasn't allowed, but noone was around.
4. Drink or smoke without being allowed to do so
5. Sneak in somewhere you don't belong.
I will put up rules for my children and I will be fairly strict about some of them. But if my children never breaks my rules I would be suspicious that they are hiding something major, or disappointed that my kids grew up to be that square.
A well balanced human being bends or breaks rules now and then, but know which rules they really should abide by. The important lesson is to teach the children which rules are absolute, and which can be bent a little.
My daughter is home-schooled. When the time comes, all of your children will be appropriately conditioned to submit to her every whim.
Nerd Rock In Progress
I'm also wondering why it would be nessisary to CC the police on who didn't show up in the morning
Because the public school system in the United States is a holding pen and work/release program for those not yet legally required to work and pay taxes.
The police need to know when prisoners have escaped, don't they?
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
Keep track of the troublemakers. If a student gets suspended for skipping, violence or something similar, tag em. Make it clear that students who break the rules x number of times will be tagged. Give them room to make mistakes, but make it understood that if they make too many, part of the punishment is intrusive observation.
:)
Likewise, I'd love to see convicted criminals tagged in someway. Wouldn't it be nice if store owners could identify convicted shoplifters when they enter the store? Sell a consumer scanner that will tell you if a convicted murderer or rapist is nearby when you go for your jog. Or if they are on your property! If your car alarm could sound when a car thief tag is nearby for too long.
I know, there is too much potential for abuse. A man can dream though. And it would sure beat "that guy looks shady" as a method of identifying potential criminals
So, you'd rather there be no emergency plans?
It was interesting for me to read this, I actually used to work for the MIS department of Spring Independent School District and my mom is working there now in an elementry school.
The tracking system they're using only applies to students riding on the district buses (as they are the only ones the district is liable for) and I think it actually makes sense for use in elementry schools. You don't know how often a student accidently misses a bus, gets on the wrong bus, or even the unthinkable happening. However, this system really wouldn't be useful for middle/high school students as they can take care of themselfs.
I don't see any real benefit to using RFID vs any other card technology to implement this system. It seems like it would be much more cost effective to have a barcode or magnetic card strip. Anyway, that district pushing the cutting edge of technology and we'll have to see the ultimate outcome of their actions.