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A Brief History of the iPod

antdude writes "MacSlash mentioned MLAgazine's article on a brief history of the iPod. It all started on October 23, 2001 with the release of one of the most important products from Apple in its history."

296 comments

  1. Slash-Dot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Raising non-news to a new level today?

    1. Re:Slash-Dot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not sure why you got modded troll. I mean the danm thing is only a few years old. Why don't we just talk about the history if windowsXP SP2, you know, for those who don't remember way back when it was released.

      (of course, one can't attempt to defend a post modded troll without posting anonymously)

    2. Re:Slash-Dot by edittard · · Score: 0

      Yup. A veritable flood of shite from everyone's favourite git.

      --
      At the bottom of the /. main page it says 'Yesterday's News'. Well they got that right.
  2. I think I can hear... by isecore · · Score: 0, Redundant

    I think I can hear their servers exploding. I gots the text but I don't gots the pictures.

    Also, I find it interesting how many ipod-clones are coming out. I guess it's true what Steve J. once said about "imitation being the greatest form of flattery"

    --
    I enjoy large posteriors and I cannot prevaricate.
    1. Re:I think I can hear... by FinestLittleSpace · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      yeah, 'cos that saying hasnt been said by ANYONE else before. fucks sake.

    2. Re:I think I can hear... by Doc+Squidly · · Score: 3, Insightful

      interesting how many ipod-clones are coming out

      Sorry, it not imitation but, form being dictated by function. All hard drive based portable music players use similar hard drives.

      When other companies paint theirs white and put U2 in their commercials, then its imitation.

      Yes, I know. I'm splitting hairs.

      --
      I think I think, therefore I think I am.
    3. Re:I think I can hear... by pslam · · Score: 5, Informative
      Also, I find it interesting how many ipod-clones are coming out. I guess it's true what Steve J. once said about "imitation being the greatest form of flattery"

      Apple was not the first to make a hard disk portable player. They were the first to ship one with a 1.8" hard disk, which hardly makes everything else a clone - they just got there second. Nobody was really taken by surprise, and the major MP3 companies were already well into designing their own.

      Apple was also not the first to make a mini hard disk portable. They were the first to ship a 4GB 1" hard disk player, and then only just. They were beaten by many companies to ship a 1" 1.5GB HD player (including where I work) - but they had a supply of 4GB drives before everyone else. In fact, Rio even managed to announce and demonstrate their own 4GB player hours before Job's keynote speech. Spot how he deliberately missed the comparison of the Mini iPod to the Rio Nitrus (a 1" HD player), and instead picked a Rio 256MB flash player as a convenient strawman.

      It's slightly irritating that Apple's reality distortion field now makes it possible for everyone to claim that all other players are "clones".

    4. Re:I think I can hear... by kfg · · Score: 1

      cos that saying hasnt been said by ANYONE else before.

      Some people are just new around here; and I don't mean at Slashdot.

      KFG

    5. Re:I think I can hear... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree with you. I wouldn't call the iRivers imitations (except what with the name) as they offer functionality that iPod doesn't. But Creative's new is probably the closest shave how you can rip off somebody's design and not get caught in court.

      "Creative" indeed. It should read "ImitAting" or "PlagiArist" with that same font... Tsk tsk.

    6. Re:I think I can hear... by mikrorechner · · Score: 1

      Apropos, take a look at this. It even has a PortalPlayer DSP (just like the iPod). 20GB, SD/MMC-slot, and it's black without any U2 songs on it.

      199 Euros.

      Already sold out (according to the article).

      --
      "Oh, a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-my-own-Grandpa." - Dr Hubert Farnsworth
    7. Re:I think I can hear... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's because they host on the *cough* performant *cough* XServer platform.

      For those of us used to real servers: it's like running Java Server Pages ... slow, slimy and homosexual, just the way Steve "Blow" Jobs tells them to.

    8. Re:I think I can hear... by Sabah+Arif · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm the webmaster there. Does anyone have a mirror site that we can host the images off? My server is my home machine, a PII 266.

    9. Re:I think I can hear... by isecore · · Score: 1

      I also think I can hear a bunch of trolls running around preparing for a flamewar...

      --
      I enjoy large posteriors and I cannot prevaricate.
    10. Re:I think I can hear... by isecore · · Score: 1

      I'm the webmaster there. Does anyone have a mirror site that we can host the images off? My server is my home machine, a PII 266.

      I wouldn't mind hosting your images on my machine, but it's not the most impressive of beasts, running on my old P2-400 on my 10mbit-line to my apartment...

      I very muchly doubt it'd withstand a slashdotting very long.

      --
      I enjoy large posteriors and I cannot prevaricate.
    11. Re:I think I can hear... by Sabah+Arif · · Score: 1

      I already uploaded the images to my personal webspace at Comcast. The traffic threw out our cable connection, and crashed my server (I use it for the images and as my personal machines). Thankyou, though.

    12. Re:I think I can hear... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are correct on all points. The thing is that the difference in the interface between a Rio and an Ipod is so much better on an ipod that the Rio deserves no mention. You know, there is still much work to be done after innovation to make a product ready for distribution. Apple is really good at the latter. Also, apple developed the protocol interface that made the Ipod ready for the world Firewire. Comparing a Rio to an Ipod is like comparing Junior Varsity football to the pros.

    13. Re:I think I can hear... by Scudsucker · · Score: 1

      Spot how he deliberately missed the comparison of the Mini iPod to the Rio Nitrus (a 1" HD player), and instead picked a Rio 256MB flash player as a convenient strawman.

      Oh, of course he should have compared it to other people's vaporware. /sarcasm

    14. Re:I think I can hear... by Sabah+Arif · · Score: 1

      The images are served on a Windows 2000 box running Sambar. The OS X server was fine and speedy, the Win2000 box crashed and burned.

  3. I remember the launch... by nordicfrost · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I also talked with a Mac-enthusiatic buddy of mine, and he hated it. I don't know why, but he thought it would bring down Apple another notch on the finance scale. Guess he was wrong. Along with some that said "no wireless. Lame."

    I find it the most indispensable tool in my life. Backup, file transport, music and calendar. With a huge harddrive.

    1. Re:I remember the launch... by Mr_Silver · · Score: 4, Interesting
      I also talked with a Mac-enthusiatic buddy of mine, and he hated it. I don't know why, but he thought it would bring down Apple another notch on the finance scale. Guess he was wrong. Along with some that said "no wireless. Lame."

      That would be Taco then.

      Look how well Creative are doing too. From being the first with a HD based MP3 device to playing catch up. Oh and trying to make their products look as similar as possible to Apple's.

      Probably not quite the direction they were hoping for.

      --
      Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
    2. Re:I remember the launch... by Mant · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's funny to read that old thread, all the people prediciting how it wouldn't succeed.

      Good thing nobody takes business advice from Slashdot.

    3. Re:I remember the launch... by Library+Spoff · · Score: 1

      Until i get a portable mp3/aac/wma/new codec player that plays ripped mix cd's *properly* i'm not interested. I want my player to show me the track title AND to seamlessly go into the next track as intended by the artist. iPods only do this by ripping the cd as a whole track... i'm told this is due to a fault in mp3's/aac. Give me a player that does this and i'm in. Don't care if it's a new format as i'm ripping cd's i own or can borrow. mind you winamp must have a plugin to play this new uber-format.

      --
      Acid House saves Souls
    4. Re:I remember the launch... by DaHat · · Score: 1, Funny

      I can just hear Apple crying.

      "Please, please buy one! We'll think about adding it in a future firmware upgrade, please, Steve needs to buy a new turtle neck!"

    5. Re:I remember the launch... by Yer+Mom · · Score: 2, Informative
      That'll be the Rio Karma, then - plays Ogg Vorbis and FLAC gaplessly. MP3s, too, although for best results you'll need to use LAME to encode them.

      (It also plays WMA, but I don't know if it does it gaplessly as I don't have any WMAs...)

      Winamp plays all these formats just fine, of course.

      --
      Never mind Spamassassin. When's Spammerassassin coming out?
    6. Re:I remember the launch... by FuzzieNorn · · Score: 1

      You missed the AAC requirement.

    7. Re:I remember the launch... by fafaforza · · Score: 1

      I'm sure just as many "business" people at Apple and elsewhere were saying the same thing. That's why every time a product is released and marketed, there is great risk taken because no one can predict how it will do. If it were sureshot, everyone would be in business.

    8. Re:I remember the launch... by Library+Spoff · · Score: 1

      Didn't know that, thanks.

      I don't have any wma's either. I was just saying i didn't care what the format was - as long as it plays seamlessly.

      --
      Acid House saves Souls
    9. Re:I remember the launch... by DaHat · · Score: 1

      How polite and mature of you! And you didn't even offer any evidence of what you say other than 'I say so'. I know this is /., but please try to point to sources, especially when it's something as easy to quote as Apple.

    10. Re:I remember the launch... by HaggiZ · · Score: 1

      It's not like being first to market is always the key to being the most profitable. Just look how well Ford are doing, from once having pretty much 100% market share.

  4. Don't forget the wonderful review at /. by kentheman · · Score: 5, Funny
    From here:
    No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame.
    Well, Apple did it. Again.
    --
    ... sometimes I fly with the white swan to my Liffey home.
    1. Re:Don't forget the wonderful review at /. by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 1

      It is kind of funny that nearly all of the +5 moderated posts in that story were positive.

      I will note that I knew Apple fans that wouldn't even consider it.

    2. Re:Don't forget the wonderful review at /. by capmilk · · Score: 1
      I will note that I knew Apple fans that wouldn't even consider it.

      That must have been me. I hated it. I had been hoping for a new Newton, or a smartphone - you know, they had announced "a groundbreaking device".

      When I saw that pseudo documentary where Moby and Seal had nothing but praise, my attitude shifted from "I hate it" to "I am disappointed".

      A couple of weeks later I happend to hold the iPod in my hand and turn that scroll wheel: clickclickclickclick.

      I wanted one. Badly.

    3. Re:Don't forget the wonderful review at /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yup, Apple managed to sell a not-that-great portable audio player and push their own proprietary audio format and still make /. weenies love them.

      Has anyone even worked out how to make a FLAC iTunes/QT plugin yet? Last I heard even the moderately old Vorbis one was still not really working properly with regard to metadata. Way to support open standards there, Apple.

    4. Re:Don't forget the wonderful review at /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At launch, the iPod only supported MP3, Wave, and AIFF. All open standards.

      MPEG-4 AAC has since been added with a fimware update. Also an open standard.

      When RMS babbles about the difference between 'open' and 'free', you'd do well paying attention.

    5. Re:Don't forget the wonderful review at /. by njchick · · Score: 1

      Can anyone please explain what is wrong in that comment? While iPod turned out to be a huge success due to marketing, I don't think Apple addressed those issues (wireless support and more space than competing products).

    6. Re:Don't forget the wonderful review at /. by jrockway · · Score: 1

      The point is that it's not lame. I have 4.something gigs of MP3s, so 20G, 40G, and 1337G are all the same to me. Size doesn't matter (that much) :). As for Wireless, I think the battery life issue makes that infeasible. But Apple could have something up their sleeves; think AirTunes.

      --
      My other car is first.
  5. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Informative

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  6. Apple's core... by mac666er · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Since its inception, Apple has always been willing to gamble more with new products than most other companies

    Granted, they flopped with the Newton... but they came out with the mac, the powerbook, peer2peer file sharing out of the box, the trackpad, the powerbook duo, speech recognition integrated on the OS on the 90's, quicktime, and the list goes on... (I would like to give them the mouse and the interface, but as with everything they also have a dark side)

    It is good to see they are ripping the benefits of believing in something completely new... ( As they believed in a portable media player by some bogus guy who was rejected by other companies)

    Kudos to Apple

    1. Re:Apple's core... by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      I'd have to disagree.

      apple might seem willing to try new ideas.. if you had your eyes blindfolded to other companies. against viewing what other companies have been doing, apple hasn't been that much willing to jump into new territories or trying new areas just for the sake of trying.

      (..and ipod was not the first hd mp3 player either)

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    2. Re:Apple's core... by ShogZilla · · Score: 1, Troll
      A lot of what you mentioned wasn't innovation by apple... some was, but much isn't:


      trackpads - apple stuck w/ rollerballs when other laptops were using trackpads. apple was a late adopter.

      speech recog - ibm os/2 (w3 or w4? can't recall) had this as an OS built-in while mac was still at system 7.2, which had no speech recog

      "the powerbook" - it's a laptop; there were laptops before the powerbook was launched - what about the powerbook did you think was innovative?

      quicktime - it's a media wrapper; other media wrappers existed prior to quicktime

      "the mac" - it had innovative features for a pc, but it was still, essentially, just another sequential release for a pc company.


      Now, the newton was definitley innovative; at the time there was nothing comparable. The duo -may- have been the first docking laptop - can't say, don't recall, but i'll give it to you anyway. p2pfs out of the box - didn't know they did that. Seems unusual.

    3. Re:Apple's core... by ilyanep · · Score: 0

      You do know that the GUI was first invented at the PARC (Xerox Plao-Alto Reasearch Center), right?

      --
      ~Ilyanep
      To get message, take amount of carrier pigeons at each stage mod 2. Then decode binary.
    4. Re:Apple's core... by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ibm os/2 (w3 or w4? can't recall) had this as an OS built-in while mac was still at system 7.2, which had no speech recog

      I don't know that that's correct. The first Mac I remember using speech on was the Quadra 660 AV which debuted in 1993 with System 7.1. How does that compare to OS/2?

      there were laptops before the powerbook was launched - what about the powerbook did you think was innovative?

      The PowerBook was the first portable computer you could actually use on your lap. Look at the position of the keyboard on a PowerBook and compare it to the position of the keyboard on any other existing laptop. Apple was the first company to do that: to move the keyboard back so you could have a place to rest your palms. Now all laptops are designed that way. That's a pretty good working definition of "innovative," huh? Being the first one to come up with something that is now universal?

      other media wrappers existed prior to quicktime

      Like which ones, exactly? (And no, your characterization of QuickTime as a "wrapper" is not correct. It's an extensible media file format plus a vast API.)

      "the mac" - it had innovative features for a pc, but it was still, essentially, just another sequential release for a pc company.

      I don't even understand that. The Mac was the first widely available computer with a mouse-driven graphical user interface. The Mac changed everything.

      --

      I write in my journal
    5. Re:Apple's core... by glesga_kiss · · Score: 1
      I fully agree with the parent, especially with regard to the IPod being not an inovation. MP3 players have been around for ages.

      Apple just have great marketing. That's all there is to it. And so, Ipod is to mp3 as hoover is to vacuum as tivo is to DVR.

    6. Re:Apple's core... by chez69 · · Score: 2, Informative

      OS/2 just needed a sound card to do voice commands where the AV macs had a bunch of special DSP hardware

      --
      PHP is the solution of choice for relaying mysql errors to web users.
    7. Re:Apple's core... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Because it costs to be the innovator?

      Apple spends far more on their backend research than the others...there might have been other HD MP3 players before the iPod, and I tried several of them before buying an iPod (the closest thing I found that I was happy with was a walkman cd style player that played just like a cd player and was the same form factor as the one I had before that which only played cds...it was still klunky).

      No, they spend far more getting this stuff perfect...other players are designed by geeks that think a feature list is what sells, when folks are buying a product because it does simply what they claim it does and does it well. I've used a few others since getting my first generation iPod...as a musician, I get a lot of these for free. Its amazing what simply asking for one of these gets you. I'm still on my first gen iPod and it is still better than the others.

      If you are one of those ones that wants more space and doesn't care about it being intuitive -- go for it. Its the same reason a lot of geeks use Linux. Its not intuitive in the slightest. I've used unix for 15 years now...probably much longer than the majority of the linux enthusiasts around here have used computers. I can understand that some folks want features over intuitiveness but most don't...This is why Windows 'outsells' Linux each and every year. Its also why the snobs of the computer world go with Mac...because its even more intuitive. Personally, I don't give a fuck about the styling of the iPod, but it does help that women like it. I use it because its the simplest interface out there and with one hand I can get to the music I want, while on my bike (motor or mountain...yeah, I know its illegal on the first), or while driving. I wish my cell phone was as intuitive and there is no reason its not.

      So why is it more expensive? Because some people are willing to pay for ease of use and having a device that thinks the way we do...

    8. Re:Apple's core... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      (I would like to give them the mouse and the interface, but as with everything they also have a dark side)

      You are right but wrong.

      Sure, the mouse credit goes to Englebart.

      But GUI is a tougher issue. While PARC had the Alto and Star, Jef Raskin (who created Macintosh and contributed Mac's GUI to Lisa too) published on similar ergonomical interfaces long before PARC was founded. Certainly Apple didn't just rip it off the Xerox guys -- Raskin had a lot of original invention in Mac's GUI.

      But there's a different dark side to it, though: Jobs brutally smoked Raskin out of Apple, out of jealosy. (When Lisa guys told Jobs to stay the fuck away from their real work, Jobs turned to the Mac project, tried to kill it a couple times, eventually got convinced by Raskin that GUI is something good, they visited PARC, Jobs took over the Mac project from Raskin, and made the CLI-only Lisa flagship adopt the GUI too, and eventually Raskin was offered a "promotion" writing brochures and designing other support material... He got the message and quit.)

      (BTW, check out "The Humane Environment" at jefraskin.com to see where he moved from the pure GUI paradigm. It's kinda interesting. More than just a "zooming interface" -- would be a killer on top of the "network native" Plan 9! And the darker sides above emerge abundantly by a simple googling on "Jef Raskin", if anybody's interested.)

    9. Re:Apple's core... by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 1

      I don't believe an AV Mac was required to do speech input. I just said that was the first Mac I ever did speech input on. As far as I know, any Mac that had the necessary software (again, I believe it was System 7) and a microphone could do speech input, with varying results depending on the microphone.

      Also, I think it's worth pointing out that you say OS/2 needed a sound card. No Mac has ever needed a sound card to do anything.

      --

      I write in my journal
    10. Re:Apple's core... by Todesmetall · · Score: 1

      The IBM voice recognition software, called VoiceType, came free with OS/2 Warp 4. It allowed to dictate texts in a word processor, but also to use voice commands for OS and GUI functions.

    11. Re:Apple's core... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      speech recog - ibm os/2 (w3 or w4? can't recall) had this as an OS built-in while mac was still at system 7.2, which had no speech recog

      Old Mac users everywhere are laughing at this statement. Most obviously, *there was never a System 7.2*.

      The Macintosh operating system went from 7.1.x (the last I remember being 7.1.2, I think) to 7.5 This was in about 1994. Voice recognition was available for machines in 1993.

      Compare against this OS/2 timeline that has VoiceType being added in OS/2 Warp 4.0.

      That was in September of 1996.

      Compare against a MacOS timeline

    12. Re:Apple's core... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You needed one of the Quadra/Centris AV macs or a PowerPC to do speech recognition.

    13. Re:Apple's core... by MattElmore · · Score: 0

      You mean as they all make better products?

    14. Re:Apple's core... by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 1

      Ah, okay. Then you were first able to do speech input on any Mac starting in 1994, the year that the Power Macintosh debuted, with System 7.1.2. So I was off by a year.

      --

      I write in my journal
    15. Re:Apple's core... by hunterx11 · · Score: 1

      Actually, the OnLine System was debuted in 1968 by Douglas Engelbart et. al.

      --
      English is easier said than done.
    16. Re:Apple's core... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are right. There is no System 7.2
      System 7.1.2 was the first Mac OS available for PPC. It was buggy as hell. Then it jumped to System 7.5 which went to 7.5.5 before going to System 7.6. This I remember was much more stable than 7.5. 7.6 was updated once before System x.x went kaput and Apple went to Mac OS 8 and the first grayscale GUI. The change to "Mac OS" was also to accomodate clones. Mac OS 8 actually solved many of my problems with PowerMacs. IMHO, the transition to PPC was truly completed at Mac OS 8 (though Mac OS 8 was not clean from 68k code).

    17. Re:Apple's core... by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 1

      I can't remember the exact make, but I remember selling end-of-line PC notebooks that had keyboards placed at the hinge end in 1991. If they were end-of-line then, then they were probably around in 1990, perhaps 1989. That's years ahead of the Powerbook's first appearance.

      In fact, the keyboard at the back was pretty much its unique selling point. Some people hated it, and some people loved it. I remember an author who bought two of the units because it would he thought it was perfect for him.

      Granted, 99 percent of PC notebooks before the Powerbook had the keyboard as close to the front of the unit as possible but not all of them.

      --

      "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
    18. Re:Apple's core... by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 1

      I remember selling end-of-line PC notebooks that had keyboards placed at the hinge end in 1991.

      The PowerBook 100, 140 and 170 debuted in October 1991. I'm sure there were non-Apple laptops with the new keyboard design after that, but I'm quite certain that the PowerBook got there first.

      --

      I write in my journal
    19. Re:Apple's core... by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 1

      I was selling these notebooks in the summer of 1991. Like I said, they were end-of-line stock then (ie, models that had been discontinued) so they obviously had been around for some time.

      Either way, the fact that I was selling them at least three to six months ahead of the Powerbook's debut shows that Apple wasn't the first to market with notebooks that placed the keyboard towards the rear. Granted, Apple was probably the first to heavily promote this as a design feature and sell it to its users as such, but that doesn't mean they were first to market.

      --

      "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
    20. Re:Apple's core... by fermion · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Apple's big thing is the packaging of the hardware and software. It tends to be straightforward with much less game playing than is typical. This allows some really cool things to happen really easily. the innovation is in the access as much as the technology.

      On the matter of speech, not speech recognition, we have talking moose. if you haven't hear of it, look it up. This, and the trivial way that system level icons could be replaced, kind of a proto-skinning, made that mac a much more personal experience that any prior computer. And the desk accessories, instead of the TSR, made it much more usable.

      We see this all the way back to the Apple ][. When I first starting programming the Apple at school, this is after we learned to program on the DEC PDP, it took me like an hour to learn shape table and do some rather cool things. The elegance, at least to the teen aged mind, was astounding.

      What apple was not good at was integration. This is the big problem they have fixed with the iPod and iLife in general. The fact that we can now synch to bluetooth phones is a feature they would not have made a front issue 10 years ago. This is why the newton failed. I had to go to a Palm to do my work. If the sync for the Newton worked as well as iSync, I might still be using it today. Last I check, it worked perfectly.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    21. Re:Apple's core... by Gherald · · Score: 1

      > You mean as they all make better products?

      No, they MARKET their products as being better.

    22. Re:Apple's core... by lowmagnet · · Score: 0

      OMG STFU

      People like you make us Apple Computer users feel somewhat more retarded by these sorts of posts. It must be a requirement that for every apple article, someone must come out to 'inform the ignorant' masses with unresearched drivel like this.

      Please stop.

      --
      Heute die Welt, morgen das Sonnensystem!
    23. Re:Apple's core... by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 1

      I'm afraid you have your dates wrong. No big deal; it was more than 10 years ago. But Apple was first to market with that feature. I know this firsthand.

      --

      I write in my journal
    24. Re:Apple's core... by ShogZilla · · Score: 1

      In re: speech recog: I went through the paces on system releases for macs, from 4.3 up through 7.3 - checking what was new each time. Never saw speech recog... Are you sure that quadra didn't have speech recog as part of some optional software package, IE, that it was definitley part of the OS?
      And yes, OS/2 w3 (or 4? still can't recall) predates the release of sys 7.3 - I recall, because I installed OS/2 and played w/ the speech recog while waiting for 7.3 to be released.

      Re: powerbook - keyboard placement, ok. First useable on lap, no. Grid must predate the first powerbooks, at a minimum.
      Quicktime, like which exactly? AVI. Was making avi files on macs before quicktime had even been thought of.
      I'll give you that last one as long as it's qualified w/ mouse-driven & widely available. GUI's predate the mac if you eliminate the mouse-driven portion.

    25. Re:Apple's core... by discstickers · · Score: 1

      They were until the PowerMacs came out with enough power to displace the DSP.

      --
      I have a shitty sig!
    26. Re:Apple's core... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He claims to know it first-hand as well.

      Why should we trust you more?

    27. Re:Apple's core... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      And yes, OS/2 w3 (or 4? still can't recall) predates the release of sys 7.3 - I recall, because I installed OS/2 and played w/ the speech recog while waiting for 7.3 to be released.

      Spoon boy: Do not try and bend the facts. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.

      Neo: What truth?

      Spoon boy: There is no System 7.3.

      Neo: There is no System 7.3?

      Spoon boy: Then you'll see, that it is not the fact that bends, it is only your memory.

      System 7 goes from 7.1.2 to 7.5, skipping 7.2, 7.3, 7.4 version numbers.

      AVI. Was making avi files on macs before quicktime had even been thought of.

      The early AVI was not a container. It's a file format used by Intel Indeo codec to store data. QuickTime was always a container and always has APIs associated with it. You can even use Indeo (on 68K Macs) codecs as a plugin to compress a video and output that as a QuickTime file. It became a container only in the last few years. Now you can use codecs such as 3IVX or DIVX along with MP3 to compress a movie to AVI. Unfortunately, Microsoft is putting their weight behind WMV as a container along with the DRM.

    28. Re:Apple's core... by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 1

      I think I know full well what year I took out of university. And I think I know full well what I did and didn't see whilst working that year for a computer retailer.

      So, thanks for suggesting I've got some sort of senility and can't get my dates right. I really do appreciate it.

      I'll say it one more time because you don't seem to be able to comprehend what I'm saying: there was at least one notebook out there before Apple's Powerbook launch that had the keyboard towards the rear of the unit, and I saw and sold the models myself.

      That doesn't make the Powerbook any better or any worse than it was. It just means that it wasn't the very first notebook to have that particular design feature.

      --

      "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
    29. Re:Apple's core... by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 1

      I'd think so too, but here we are.

      --

      I write in my journal
    30. Re:Apple's core... by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 1

      Isn't it time for you to disappear for a year again?

      --

      "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
    31. Re:Apple's core... by the+pickle · · Score: 1

      Your point being?

      Sounds to me like both of them needed hardware that standard models didn't ship with.

      You want the capability, you buy an upgrade. Whether this is an expansion card or comes built into the motherboard is mostly irrelevant. The latter simply requires a bit more pre-planning.

      p

    32. Re:Apple's core... by ruiner13 · · Score: 1
      OS/2 just needed a sound card to do voice commands where the AV macs had a bunch of special DSP hardware

      So you're argument is that you're faulting Apple for having built-in what you'd have to get add-on hardware on a PC to achieve? You lost me...

      They may have gone about achieving it differently, but the end result is it could do it for no ($0) extra cost. If you really want to get technical, I remember making a Mac speak back on one of those black and white ones, I think it was a SE/30 or something. I used the Macromedia Director program although it wasn't called that back then (1992-1993ish), and for the life of me I can't remember what it was called. Anyhow, you could write the text that you wanted, put it in a storyboard, and it would speak it. Yeah, you had to sometimes spell words oddly to get it to pronounce things right, but it did OK. I think it used a Macintalk library, but I'm not 100% sure. Oh, and without any additional hardware.

      --

      today is spelling optional day.

    33. Re:Apple's core... by Demolition · · Score: 2, Informative

      Just FYI...

      Apple's first foray into speech input was a technology demo in 1990 on the Mac IIsi, running System 6.0.7. It was extremely rudimentary. Things improved slightly in 1991 (in System 7.0), but the implemementation was still crude and a bit of work was needed to make it function properly (-- well, I never got it to function properly, anyway :-P ). In 1993, PlainTalk, a much improved technology, debuted as a standard component in System 7.1.0 on Quadra 660AVs and 840AVs. Thereafter, command-oriented speech-recognition was a standard part of the Mac OS.

      D.

    34. Re:Apple's core... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but you can't say what manufacturer or what models, so for all we know, they were Apples! Having the keyboard near the hinge wasn't that big of a deal. On some older machines, the keyboard took up the entire space. Apple was unique in that it came out with a machine that had a wrist rest and a trackball where your thumbs could get at it easily. At the time Compaq, Dell, IBM, Gateway, etc. were still selling laptops where the keys were at the front edge.

    35. Re:Apple's core... by WIAKywbfatw · · Score: 1

      No, I can't, because, as I said already, I can't remember the manufacturer. I do know it wasn't an Apple notebook (because the store didn't sell any Apple hardware or software) and I do know it wasn't a big name that's normally associated with PCs (because I remember being surprised that they made them at all).

      I freely acknowledge that I don't recall the name and thus I can't prove a thing. But ask yourself this: why would I lie about it? To knock Apple? It was only yesterday that somebody else on Slashdot was calling me an Apple fan boy (be sure to read a couple of posts along the thread each way), so, please, don't for a minute think I have some sort of Apple-bashing agenda.

      The only reason I pointed out that Apple wasn't the first to put a notebook's keyboard towards the rear of the unit is precisely that: that Apple wasn't the very first to do it. If I have an agenda here then it's sharing that simple truth; no more, no less. However, if you or anyone else wants to carry on believing that not a single, solitary notebook before the Powerbook had that feature, well, I can't stop you, can I?

      --

      "Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
    36. Re:Apple's core... by Scudsucker · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Certainly Apple didn't just rip it off the Xerox guys

      Actually they didn't get ripped off, at all. Xerox got paid. Repeating that urban legend makes the rest of your post about Raskin and Jobs suspect.

    37. Re:Apple's core... by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 1

      why would I lie about it?

      Are you kidding? This is Slashdot. Lies outnumber the truth here by a margin of a thousand to one.

      --

      I write in my journal
    38. Re:Apple's core... by mmkkbb · · Score: 1

      I think there was a 7.1.3 for the 500-series PowerBooks.

      --
      -mkb
    39. Re:Apple's core... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a lie and you know it!

  7. Guarantee by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Guaranteed: At least a dozen times prior to Apple releasing the iPod, large technology company middle managers refused to approve designs for competing devices, claiming with absolute certainty that no market existed for portable digital music players.

    As those ass-molded-to-chair managers know, it's always easier to be a skeptic. The numbers of jobs and revenue lost to those WRONG decisions must be staggering.

    1. Re:Guarantee by Eric+Giguere · · Score: 1

      Indeed, reading The Innovator's Dilemma shows you how often a disruptive technology can be misjudged. Of course, hindsight is always 20/20.

      Eric
  8. A bit unnecessary, no? by Nosf3ratu · · Score: 4, Funny
    Do we really need a "history of ..." story for something that's been around for just a couple years?

    Here's a brief history of the iPod:

    First, Apple designed the iPod. One day an engineer came in succinctly blitzed and designed the horrible "I-ain't-seen-this-shit-since-Intellivision" circle navigation wheel thingy. The hippie fruits at Apple all applauded.

    Then they bought usage rights to some second-rate cheap ass songs that never got played on the radio anyway, and used them to promote the thing. Said no-name bands became more famous because of the constant never-ending barrage of commercials. "Honey, if I do say so myself, this Black Eyed Peas song is rather good! I absolutely hated it the first 48,000 times I heard it but now it's starting to grow on me!"

    Then Apple deployed their proven strategy of making the device look better than it actually performs, thereby luring thoughtless dimwits and college freshmen with enormous piles of high interest credit cards that they somehow "needed" one for Christmas.

    Then when people realized that the music they were downloading for free was somehow supporting terrorism, and they were probably going to be castrated in town square, they needed another method to fill up the bottomless hole that is the iPod (seriously, who the hell needs to have that many gigs of mp3s with them at all times?). But wait, Apple was here with a solution! You can download the songs for a low low price, and it's legal! Oh...and the artists still get fucked! Yay! The RIAA can rest easy. iTunes is here.

    And a legend was born.

    --
    The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est Pro patria mori
    1. Re:A bit unnecessary, no? by dJOEK · · Score: 5, Funny

      So you're too poor to buy one?

      --
      Exercise caution when modding this message up: the author acts like a jerk when his karma is excellent.
    2. Re:A bit unnecessary, no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "songs that never got played on the radio anyway" ... " first 48,000 times I heard it "

    3. Re:A bit unnecessary, no? by HarveyBirdman · · Score: 2, Insightful
      that never got played on the radio anyway

      Yeah, but that's a good thing these days.

      And the control wheel is frickin genius. It's perfect for the one dimensional navigation of the iPod. The Intellivision was a cheap mushy disc totally unsuited to the two dimensional control of a game system.

      --
      --- Ban humanity.
    4. Re:A bit unnecessary, no? by BrainInAJar · · Score: 0, Troll

      I have one, they're neat, but they're totally overrated.

      I figgure people who hype them up so much do it to reduce their own cognitive dissonance that they spent $400 on something with only slightly more functionality than a $50 CD player.

      Personally, I had money to burn, and I like music. I don't think it's the greatest purchase I've ever made, but it was worth it enough for me to pick one up off ebay for 150$

    5. Re:A bit unnecessary, no? by nbvb · · Score: 1

      Bullsh*t.

      That disc was (and still IS) the only way to play a video bowling game.

      Period.

    6. Re:A bit unnecessary, no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hippie fruits
      I have visions of a long-haired apple with a full beard and moustache. I will draw such a thing and use it as my Mac desktop image. Thanks. :)

    7. Re:A bit unnecessary, no? by MacGod · · Score: 1

      But ranting about the iPod on Slashdot? Now *that* makes you cool!

      --
      "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one " -Albert Einstein
    8. Re:A bit unnecessary, no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i swear to god he has gel in his hair

      i guess you missed the point, part of which is that if you are doing anything to BE cool, you are a terrible person.
      take for example someone proclaiming themselves as a 'god' of the 'mac'.

    9. Re:A bit unnecessary, no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I figgure people who hype them up so much do it to reduce their own cognitive dissonance that they spent $400 on something with only slightly more functionality than a $50 CD player.

      Only slightly more functionality? What are you smoking?

      A $50 CD player wouldn't allow me to carry around the 300+ music CDs and two milk crates full of 12" vinyl in my music collection without the aid of a sturdy wheeled cabinet. The iPod does that, and fits in my shirt pocket.

    10. Re:A bit unnecessary, no? by euxneks · · Score: 1

      Then when people realized that the music they were downloading for free was somehow supporting terrorism

      I seriously hope you're being sarcastic. I don't see how anything free can be labeled "supporting terrorism".. It may be circumventing copyright, or allowing poor people to use computers, but how does that lead to supporting terrorism?

      In my mind the whole terrorism schtick, be it the US "seeking" out terrorists or the terrorists attacking, is all in an effort to reduce our freedoms.

      --
      in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni
    11. Re:A bit unnecessary, no? by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      A $50 CD player wouldn't allow me to carry around the 300+ music CDs and two milk crates full of 12" vinyl in my music collection without the aid of a sturdy wheeled cabinet.

      A $50 CD player would probably play mp3s. At say 12 albums per CD, 300 audio CDs would fit into 25 mp3 CDs, which easily fits into a small light carrying case (obviously you don't need to carry the CD cases with you).

      Now sure, it's still nowhere near as small as a hard disk based mp3 player, so you do get more for spending $400, but a CD player is nowhere near as bad as you make out.

    12. Re:A bit unnecessary, no? by Rosonowski · · Score: 1

      He was reffering to the commercials being overplayed.

      --
      01101001 01100001 01101101 01101110 01101111 01110100 01100001 01101100 01100001 01110111 01111001 01100101 01110010
    13. Re:A bit unnecessary, no? by JudgeFurious · · Score: 1

      Slightly more functionality? Hardly. Find me a $50 CD player that I can stuff three or four audio books in to listen to non-stop while driving across the country please. I'd like one since it would keep me from having to buy another $400 iPod to put in my wife's car since she keeps stealing mine.

      Capacity man. You can't beat capacity. Just the that alone puts the iPod easily past "slightly more functionality".

      --
      Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
    14. Re:A bit unnecessary, no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. I am not paying the equivalent of $733 for a UK iPod. It's a fucking RIPOFF.

    15. Re:A bit unnecessary, no? by bilgebag · · Score: 1

      > A $50 CD player would probably play mp3s.

      Absolutely, there's no problem with putting 50 hours of spoken-word material on one CD-R.

    16. Re:A bit unnecessary, no? by HarveyBirdman · · Score: 1

      Well, yeah, but pffft! Only godless Communists play video bowling anymore. Who cares about them?

      --
      --- Ban humanity.
    17. Re:A bit unnecessary, no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess it's pretty clear that you don't get it. History is filled with you. It's OK, though. You don't need to...

    18. Re:A bit unnecessary, no? by Moofie · · Score: 1

      Now index them. Dynamically. By genre, and artist.

      Uh huh. How many times do you want to re-burn your collection?

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    19. Re:A bit unnecessary, no? by mdwh2 · · Score: 1

      Sure, a hard disk based one certainly has advantages, I'm just saying that you don't have to carry around huge amounts of CDs with you with a CD player.

      Also I'm one of those people who likes to listen to music almost always by albums (which I know apparentely seems quite strange these days..)

  9. There are others you know... by julie-h · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    There are other portables you know!

    Most we hear about iPod all the time? What about those their is Open Source like http://www.neurosaudio.com/

    Wouldn't that be more interesting, instead of one that is completly closed and restricted in all possible ways?

    1. Re:There are others you know... by DaveCBio · · Score: 1

      Agreed, the iPod worship around here is quite thick.

    2. Re:There are others you know... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yours is a typical nerd response.

      You don't inderstand the words 'cool' or 'fashionable', 'art' or 'design'.

      You never really 'got' what the cool kids were doing, did you?

      Owning an iPod is a statement about yourself, your values, and your aspirations. not just a little gadget that plays music.

      Err.. no, I don't own an iPod.

    3. Re:There are others you know... by lew3004 · · Score: 1

      That's really frickin' sad when a person needs a product like a music player to announce to the world about themselves, their values and their aspirations. Ahh but what the hell; people have been doing that for decades with cars.

      --
      I still can't get the screen shots of Castle Wolfenstein for the Apple IIe out of my head.
    4. Re:There are others you know... by julie-h · · Score: 1, Insightful

      What is the most important: Features or looks?

      If features the iPod is the wrong choice!

      If looks, I suggest you to take a picture of it and use it as backgroundpicture, or buy a defect iPod which you can get much cheaper.

      Think about it. If the design is so important that the eletronics or features isn't the most important, you will get the biggest "bang for your bugs" with a defect iPod or a picture.

    5. Re:There are others you know... by julie-h · · Score: 1

      I'll better not try and convince them otherwise =)

    6. Re:There are others you know... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sigh!

      You still don't get it.

      You'll never get it.

    7. Re:There are others you know... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's human nature Lew. That's all.

      Even in the Bronze age people wore their status in gold - not just big lumps of gold, but well-designed and crafted gold ornaments.

      Same today - nothing new :)

    8. Re:There are others you know... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope, because she's a stupid cunt.

    9. Re:There are others you know... by denniscpearce · · Score: 1

      mod parent up.
      i know they dont own an ipod.
      the grandparent sounds like a terrible person who bought an ipod to be cool.
      im sure they carry it around awkwardly so people can see it.
      i hope they get mugged.

    10. Re:There are others you know... by denniscpearce · · Score: 1

      i mean that 'i know the they dont own an ipod but...'

    11. Re:There are others you know... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      shut up you fucking retard.

    12. Re:There are others you know... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no, you are the "fucking retard"
      i, as well as im sure many others, agree with him.

    13. Re:There are others you know... by julie-h · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I can easy follow your idea, and I think you got my point too=)

      People with iPod's indicate, that they are 100% for design, and not features or eletronics and sound quality. The PCM2705 from TI that is in the iPod is a NOT a high end DAC! In fact, a low cost DAC =(

    14. Re:There are others you know... by julie-h · · Score: 0, Troll

      What a good argument=) Clearly I can't argue with that=)

      Come on boys. Is that the best you can do?=)

    15. Re:There are others you know... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, I hold a degree in audio engineering and have spent many an hour behind an SSL 9000 mixing console and I think... hmm sounds ok. Rock out baby.

    16. Re:There are others you know... by Kenshin · · Score: 0, Troll

      If features the iPod is the wrong choice!

      How about unparalleled ease of use?
      Seamless integration with iTunes?

      Ohh... you're still bitter there's no iTunes for Linux or worthless Ogg support.

      --

      Does it make you happy you're so strange?

    17. Re:There are others you know... by paz5 · · Score: 1

      Ipod can use open source too....

    18. Re:There are others you know... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One of the most vital aspects of a device's "design" is "making the device's features easily usable."

      For example: imagine one music player with 100 features, but designed so that only 10 of those features are easy to use, and the other 90 require tremendous effort (extra keystrokes, menu selections, counterintuitive operation, etc.). Let's call this a "Rio."

      Now imagine a second music player with just 30 features, but designed so that all 30 of those features are intuitive and easy to use. Let's call this an "iPod."

      Now imagine a third device, which is nothing more than a picture of one of the above devices. Let's call this a "photo."

      Which is the best-designed? The one that HAS the most features, or the one that FACILITATES the use of the most features?

      If you value usability of features, the "iPod" is the best-designed. If you value the theoretical presence of features, apart from usability, the "Rio" is the best-designed.

      In no case is the defective unit (the "photo") the best "bang for your buck."

      Think about it.

  10. How do you rate important? by joeykiller · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I know this is off topic, but I see they call the iPod one of the most important products in Apple history. How does one value their individual products, and how would a list of importantness lokk like? Like this?

    1. Apple I for starting the whole thing?
    2. Apple II for making Apple a business?
    3. Macintosh for paving the way to the future?
    4. iMac for saving the company?
    5. iPod for attracting buyers outside of the crowd of believers?

    Can Steve Jobs be called a "product" these days, and thus earn a place on the top 5?

    1. Re:How do you rate important? by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 1

      For "important" substitute "profitable."

      And I think Steve is more of a brand than a product. :-)

      --

      I write in my journal
    2. Re:How do you rate important? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ..and you forgot this one

      6. OS X for paving (one more time) the way to the future.

      PS: no i am not a mac addict, actually i didn't own a mac since 1995, but i do believe OS X will have a lot of "influence" on a lot of user (more than its marketshare) in coming years.

      lo

    3. Re:How do you rate important? by mh101 · · Score: 1

      I agree. OSX is the main reason I bought my Mac. Before then, I wouldn't have dreamed of buying a Mac.

      --
      Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together.
    4. Re:How do you rate important? by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      Well, the analysts suggest that (subtracting cash reserves) the iPod constitutes half their worth, and the Mac platform the remainder.

      Without the iPod, Apple would have been lucky to be in Sun's position today. Compare the 5-year stock graphs of the two companies.

      Now, the real opportunity is if Apple can leverage what it has with the iPod to expand overall growth in a long-term, meaningful fashion.

    5. Re:How do you rate important? by Moofie · · Score: 1

      Since Jobs was instrumental in all of those products, I think you can condense the list to just him.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
  11. A great history... by jmcmunn · · Score: 1, Interesting


    I didn't know a lot about the history of the iPod, so this was quite interesting to me. I really only started paying attention to the iPod when it was compatible with the PC.

    But it would be more interesting to me to see an entire history of the Mp3 player...starting with the first little 32MB ones or whatever came out first, and going right up to the 80GB+ ones we have today. I remember being so excited when I got my first Rio Mp3 flash player. It had 64mb built in, and this was just amazing to me. I loved that thing to death. Now I look back and wonder how it was ever ok to only be able to carry a single album encoded at 128kbps around with me. :-)

    Anyone have any links to articles that might have a more broad history of the MP3 player in general?

    1. Re:A great history... by ttldkns · · Score: 1

      i agee with you there, i found it interesting too although the links to the slashdot story from 2001 were funnier.

      i remember the first mp3 player i bought, about 150 GBP for 32 MB of storage and it was about the same size as an ipod. If i encoded the songs at 64kbps i could just about squeeze 2 albums on! it was magic! i think either the decoding hardware was too poor for me to notice the low quality or i was delusion from being way cooler than the other kids at the time!

      --
      How many computers are too many?
  12. it's in the new MoMA... by mojoNYC · · Score: 4, Interesting
    my wife and I (both iPod and Mac owners) attended the opening of the new Museum of Modern Art here in NYC, and were happy to see that the original iPod (along with a G4 iBook) made it into the museum's design collection, next to other icons of product design.

    didn't see any Rios or Dell laptops, though--go figure;>

    1. Re:it's in the new MoMA... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An iBook?

      They picked an iBook?

      I own an iBook G4, but wow, it's ugly compared to my old PowerBook or any of the new AlBooks.

    2. Re:it's in the new MoMA... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great!

      I hope you were both suitably attired in black, sipped only the purest designer mineral water and avoided smiling or talking throughout the proceedings.

    3. Re:it's in the new MoMA... by lakeland · · Score: 1

      Were I the curator, I wouldn't have included the iBook, but I would have included the first sony viao, and a sun IPX (which is where apple got the idea for a performa from)

    4. Re:it's in the new MoMA... by CaptainAvatar · · Score: 1

      I'm curious, how or why did the IPX influence the Performa? It's just a box, a donut box instead of a pizza box perhaps. Was it really a radical design back then?

      --
      The real Captain Avatar is a fictional character, so I suppose he doesn't mind if I impersonate him.
    5. Re:it's in the new MoMA... by lakeland · · Score: 1

      The performa I remember from '94 was the first apple to have the screen integrated with the CPU. Ok, so it was essentially separate in reality, not like the new iMac, but... PCs at the time also had the screen totally separate. Now you're seeing the screen and the computer being integrated more often, but the IPX was the first that I know about, and the performa the first mainstream computer to do it.

    6. Re:it's in the new MoMA... by CaptainAvatar · · Score: 1

      Ah. You're obviously not old enough to remember the original Macintosh :)

      --
      The real Captain Avatar is a fictional character, so I suppose he doesn't mind if I impersonate him.
    7. Re:it's in the new MoMA... by lakeland · · Score: 1

      Yes, I'd forgotten the Plus, 512kE, lisa, etc. I wonder if the old sun or the old mac came first :)

    8. Re:it's in the new MoMA... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Huh? The IPX was just a box, it didn't have an integrated monitor. It was a brilliant use of space, but it was still just a box.

  13. Design by Mr_Silver · · Score: 4, Informative
    One of the key points which I believe made the iPod sell well is that it appeals to women. Several in the office have seen the alternative "iPod killers" and every single one of them have commented about how ugly it is. One key quote was "if you asked for an ipod and you got that, you'd be disappointed".

    I find it interesting that every "iPod killer" attempts to add more features and make it cheaper. Unfortunately this has the side effect of it having a horrible design or uses cheap materials which makes it feel horrible to handle.

    Personally I believe that if something looks and feels good, then people will buy it. As soon as a company accepts that there are people who are perfectly happy to pay more for something that looks and feels good, then they might spend a little more on the hardware and less on trying to get it's sales price as low as possible.

    I fear that at the moment the only real competitor to Apple was Sony, but then they dropped the ball with a limited hard drive (no 40 gig option?) and the stupid requirement to convert to ATRAC. Creative have never produced a product that remotely looks like it's worth the money that was paid for it and iRiver (whilst being technically very good) needs to seriously review some of their design choices (ruggidised black and a stubbly joypad doesn't appeal to many and definately not to women).

    Of course, everyones opinion is different. I know people who think the Creative one is beautiful and the Apple one horrible. But the market has clearly shown that they are in the minority.

    More style, more class, less about the price point and someone could actually make it vaiguley close to having an "iPod killer" on their hands.

    --
    Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
    1. Re:Design by DaveCBio · · Score: 1

      You forgot to mention Rio and their great portable players. I think the Carbon is every bit as sexy as an iPod.

    2. Re:Design by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 2, Informative

      FWIW, Sony actually did relent on the ATRAC conversion for its hard drive and flash players. I'm not sure if that hard drive player was fixed. The 20GB is smaller than Apple's 20GB but costs $50 more and still has a dubious interface.

      Sony's CD and DVD players had been using MP3 for a while.

      I'm considering a 20GB iPod right now, and won't consider Sony for this task. The 40GB iPod isn't necessary and IMO too thick anyway. I currently only have a 10GB music collection + 1GB software files. It's taken me ten years to get my collection where it is, I don't see it doubling anytime soon.

    3. Re:Design by finkployd · · Score: 1

      I think the point was that the market at large does not seem to think so.

      Finkployd

    4. Re:Design by Twirlip+of+the+Mists · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Look, I understand that opinions are neither right nor wrong and that everybody's entitled to one ...but come on, man. Have you ever actually seen an iPod? An iPod is simple and elegant. A Rio Carbon looks like a prop from a bad 1970s-era science fiction TV show.

      Opinions are neither right nor wrong ...but sometimes you just have to take a step back and re-evaluate. You know?

      --

      I write in my journal
    5. Re:Design by Chundra · · Score: 1, Insightful

      No, the market has clearly shown that people, like crows, covet shiny things. It has nothing to do with "style", or "class".

    6. Re:Design by stevey · · Score: 2, Funny
      (ruggidised black and a stubbly joypad doesn't appeal to many and definately not to women).

      I can think of many women who'd like a rugged black joystick ..

      Perhaps you just move in different circles.

    7. Re:Design by kfg · · Score: 1

      As soon as a company accepts that there are people who are perfectly happy to pay more for something that looks and feels good, then they might spend a little more on the hardware and less on trying to get it's sales price as low as possible.

      There used to be companies like this. In fact, I remember a day when companies like that were quite common and quality was to be expected, especially in the look and feel department. Man, home audio equipment used to be awesome shit to delight every sense and sensibility, you could hug the stuff, not this vacuum formed plastic shit we have now.

      So what happened?

      Companies that could make and sell stuff cheaper got 98% of the business. People may want a Boyd, but they buy a Ford. Believe it or not, mp3 players aren't anywhere near a mass market item yet. 98% of the American populace has never even seen an mp3 player, and a good many of those haven't even heard of them yet. They're cutting edge, afficiando gear and mass market rules do not apply.

      When everybody has an mp3 player because they bought it as an impulse item while standing in line at CVS, well, iPod ain't gonna be the sales leader then.

      Can't you see the same damned thing in markets where their is a legitimate mass market commodity competitor to Apple, like, oooooooh, desktop computers? Apple is the Alfa Romeo of the computer world. That's ok, nothing wrong with it, but it inherently means having an Alfa Romeo like market share.

      And there's nothing wrong with that either.

      KFG

    8. Re:Design by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd take this comment more seriously if the poster exhibited any style or class. Cunt.

    9. Re:Design by Shadarr · · Score: 1

      From where I'm sitting, it's already happening. iPod gets all the press, but I see way more cheap USB thumbdrive mp3 players than iPods.

    10. Re:Design by DaveCBio · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I've seen and used an iPod and while I think it's pretty cool it's still overrated and overpriced like most Apple products. Apple is 50% tech and 50% hype.

    11. Re:Design by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no it isn't!

      it's 5% tech, 15% hype, and 80% design.

    12. Re:Design by CaptainAvatar · · Score: 1
      A Rio Carbon looks like a prop from a bad 1970s-era science fiction TV show.

      You say that like it's a bad thing!

      --
      The real Captain Avatar is a fictional character, so I suppose he doesn't mind if I impersonate him.
  14. Uh, no. by GeorgeH · · Score: 5, Informative

    "It all started on October 23, 2001 with the release of one of the most important products from Apple in its history."

    Uh, no. It started when Tony Fadell had the idea of creating a digital music player and tying it to an online music store a few years before the iPod came out. Inside Look at Birth of the iPod on Wired News covers the stuff that happened before the iPod came out.

    --
    Why can't I moderate something "Wrong" or at least "Grossly Misinformed"?
    1. Re:Uh, no. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't that a bit like writing the "History of the Roman Empire" and starting off with the first human civilisations?

    2. Re:Uh, no. by Jeff+DeMaagd · · Score: 1

      There are a few errors. The U2 SE doesn't include the "digital boxed set"

      Real Networks DID approach Apple to licence Fairplay. Apple refused. Then they released their own workaround.

      Another note that I didn't think of until now, the Newsweek with Jobs on the cover looks kind of like the guy in Sling Blade with an iPod.

    3. Re:Uh, no. by graffix_jones · · Score: 1

      This is the quote from the Wired article that gets me...

      Knauss stayed on until near the end of the iPod's development, but quit shortly before it was released because he had no confidence it would be a success.
      "It was probably a mistake, but then you have to go with what you think at the time," he said.
      Knauss, 33, is now contracting for Microsoft.


      Just one mistake after another, it appears, for this guy...

  15. Re:Intriguing idea by Chess_the_cat · · Score: 3, Funny
    I can get a much better x86-based computer for the same price.

    A x86 computer that runs OS X natively? Sign me up.

    --
    Support the First Amendment. Read at -1
  16. Re:Intriguing idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Its not like they loose moeny on theri mac division. au contraire - x-server sales is up by 118% this year and every other retail item at apple is also up.
    You dont kill cashcows - you kill the dog

  17. Re:I always loved slashdots first opinions by amokk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Slashdot has never been revolutionary. It's never really on the cutting edge of anything. Most of the editor's comments end up being incendiary or show that they are profoundly out of touch with reality.

    --
    I think, therefore I am an Atheist.
  18. Re:Intriguing idea by zerman · · Score: 1

    An x86 computer that runs Linux/X natively, which is the same thing except no Aqua.

  19. Guid Mairn'n by mad_ian · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    As the Chaplain and founding member of the 68k Macintosh Liberation Army, I greet the /. crowd.

    Stop on by: http://www.68kmla.net/

    --
    ~Donald / Just RTFM
    1. Re:Guid Mairn'n by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would be mad to, if I was still stuck using a 68k Mac ;)

  20. Re:Intriguing idea by zerman · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Maybe they don't lose money, but the iPod is certainly a bigger cashcow, so why not pour R&D into that instead?

  21. Service unavailable - MacSlash.d by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    Calling a karma hoes,Any mirrors?

  22. Re:Intriguing idea by finkployd · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If you were just talking desktops, I kinda agree. Laptops on the other hand, I feel there are simply no x86 based laptops that can compete with the powerbook line on price, performance, features, etc. I have noticed the powerbooks line (and to a much lesser extent, the ibook line) making a massive comeback in higher education.
    Whereas I would used to go to various conferences and see over 90% thinkpads and some dells, now is seems well over half the people attending have powerbooks, and that number just keeps growing.

    Granted higher ed is a small subset of the population, but I have been noticing more apple laptops in other groups as well.

    Finkployd

  23. Re:Intriguing idea by rjelks · · Score: 1

    That's why we'll never see OSX on the x86-based computers.

  24. Re:Intriguing idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > Apple should focus on doing the things that provide revenue for them, such as iTunes and the iPod

    And if you would actually go and read their financial statements or annual reports, you would find that you are terribly misguided.

  25. Re:Intriguing idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How can you claim two things are the same then state a way they are different? Are you Murray Walker?

  26. Almost /.ed here's the text by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
    The new slogan was "Say Hello to iPod", reminiscent of the already familiar "Say Hello to iMac", was launched on October 23, 2001 with the release of one of the most important products from Apple in its history. A few days earlier, Apple created a stir, when it invited the press to a product announcement "is not Mac". The product was a hit for Apple, eventually overshadowing the Mac division in revenue. The iPod and iTunes have revolutionized Apple and the consumer world.

    iPod is not based on a new concept. Companies before Apple released hard drive based music players, but none had the charm and elegance in the Apple implementation. Unlike the competitors, the iPod used a high speed FireWire interface to transfer files on and off of it, and it used a tiny hard drive, that made the device a quarter of the size of comparable products. Besides the specifications, the iPod offered an intuitive interface and a beautiful enclosure. Even the ear buds were different and unique. Almost all audio equipment was black, but Apple created a set of ear buds that were glistening white. Everything in the design was there to make the user experience a better one.

    The iPod was almost not released by Apple. The products creator, Tony Fadell, had shopped the idea to Phillips and RealNetworks before proposing the idea to Apple. Fadell found a welcoming enviroment at Apple, who agreed almost immediately to produce and market the device.

    The iPod was so small that it can slip into a shirt pocket with ease, and with a Sony battery that lasts for ten hours on a charge. On the inside, the device had a tiny 1.8 in. Toshiba hard drive, weighing around fifty grams, far smaller than even notebook hard drives. Apple did not develop the operating system or MP3 player software. The operating system is from Pixio, a company staffed by many former Apple employees, and an MP3 player from PortalPlayer. Pixio's operating system has been implemented in many portable telephones allows for fast develpment on limitted deviced, taking up 155 kb. Since the original iPod, Pixio was acquired by Sun, who is happy to be selling its software on every iPod produced.

    There was only one serious flaw with the iPod, and that was the price, The machine cost $400, making far from accessible to many consumers. Some lamented the lack of PC support, though Jobs promised a PC version very soon after the lauch. In fact, weeks after the lauch, third party utilities cropped up that enable iPod users to sync with their PC.

    Several limitations were present in the first version. There was no remote control,despite a connector designed for such a puropse, there are no games, except for the breakout game included as an easter egg, the dial was subject to problems, and the software implemented limitting anti-piracy policies.

    One month after the domestic launch of the iPod, it was launched in Europe, accompanied by new peripherals. Several companies were selling charging adapters, FM broadcasters and a plethora of cases. By the end of 2001, Apple had already sold 125,000 new iPods.

    Like all Apple products, a major update was released several months later. In March of 2002, a 10 GB version of the iPod was released. Along with the new iPod, came a software update that included several bug fixes, and a new equalizer....

    Hardly four months later, in July, a new 20 GB version was released, with a major price cut for the 5 and 10 GB versions. The new iPods are also PC compatible, using MusicMatch to sync with the player. A new calendar and artists search was included into the software that shipped on the new players. Unlike the earlier versions, the new iPods came with a remote control attached to the ear buds, which Apple soon released to existing iPod users as an add on. The most obvious physical change in the iPod comes in the scroll wheel. No longer is it a physical wheel, instead it is a touch sensitive wheel similar in function to a touchpad.

    To many's surprise, Apple abruptly discontinued the

  27. Re:I always loved slashdots first opinions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Everyone was disappointed that apples new secret product was just an mp3 player.. now look at it.

    It is just an mp3 player and it's still lame. Hell, I like Apple products, but there's no way in hell I'm plopping down that kind of cash for a glorified mp3 player! There are much cheaper alternatives out there. An iRiver H140 completely spanks an iPod of comparable size. The only reason people buy iPods is Apple's tremendous marketing campaign to sheeple.

  28. 1984 (video provided) by The+Hobo · · Score: 1

    What about Apple's famous 1984 commercial? That was pretty important...

    Video here for those who don't remember...

    --
    There is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men. -- Boondock Saints
  29. Re:No wonder it's their most important profit by ThousandStars · · Score: 3, Funny
    but the price is barking mad)

    Precisely how mad is "barking mad?" Is that the point at which you express your displeasure by standing in front of stores that sell Ipods and unleashing your canine fury?

  30. Re:No wonder it's their most important profit by Chucker23N · · Score: 3, Insightful

    iPod and iPod photo: 1.8 inch hard disks
    iPod mini: 1.0 inch hard disks
    Notebooks: 2.5 inch hard disks

    Thought you were right on? Think again.

  31. Re:Intriguing idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ever heard the one about the eggs and the basket?

  32. Re:Intriguing idea by finkployd · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And no easy way to have an encrypted home directory, or make encrypted disk images (oh I know how to do it with a loopback file system, but most people don't)

    And much less application support (don't show me 500 aim clones that Linux has, OS X can run those through X11 and fink anways, show me the Office or Photoshop or Quicken apps)

    And a nighmare getting periferals configured and working

    Oh and generally really crappy battery life, with (as much as I like Linux) the worlds worst power management features and tools.

    Look, I love using Linux and it is the only OS on my desktops (except for one headless windows box for the sporatic DLL or ISAPI I have to write). However, after owning a few top of the line Dell notebooks and Thinkpads, I will never go back to x86 based laptops now that I have a powerbook. Having everything from power management, wireless, long battery life, and application compatibility just working is such a nice way to live :)

    Finkployd

  33. Wait till people find... by Concrete+Nomad · · Score: 0, Troll

    The battery on the iPod blows. Mine didn't even last a year. This whole Apple craze is blown out of control and Wall Street is partly to blame. This is only going to end in disaster.

    1. Re:Wait till people find... by auspiv · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure on what basis you said this on. Maybe if your iPod was 18 months or older, but to just come out and say it is pointless. My 3G 10GB iPod still has great battery life (got it last Christmas) and occasionally I get over 8 hours of battery life. The thing can also take a beating. I've dropped it multiple times on hard surfaces and it just runs and runs.

    2. Re:Wait till people find... by mh101 · · Score: 1

      I've had mine for about 15 months now, with very heavy use. Still works fine.

      --
      Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side, and it holds the universe together.
  34. Re:I always loved slashdots first opinions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now look at it? For all the hype, I've never seen an ipod in use. Yes, I've seen plenty of MP3 players on the streets, but never an ipod. You hipsters don't know when to quit.

  35. Re:Intriguing idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You don't know what you are talking about.
    Mac OS X has NOTHING to do with Linux. Uses something totally different and YEARS ahead of X-Window (Quartz, first vector based graphic layer)

    Can you run gcc and Photoshop AND FinalCut or Avid in the same time on Linux?
    Can you just plug 2 computers and have instant network?
    Can you use something like Cocoa on Linux? How many latest games can you run on Linux?

    And, do you think that Opteron or Athlon or Itanium has such good performance/power consumtion/price ratio as PowerPC 970?

    Please, if you don't know a shit about something, don't talk.

  36. Re:Intriguing idea by kaleco · · Score: 2, Informative
    The Apple Developer Connection student developer discount has made a big difference in making Apple hardware an option for students.

    I got my 20% off my 12" Powerbook, which meant I could throw in an iPod too. Apple know how to look after their customers. I don't think I'll be turning back to x86 laptops for a long time.

    --
    Prosperity is only an instrument to be used, not a deity to be worshipped. Calvin Coolidge
  37. Re:I always loved slashdots first opinions by marika · · Score: 0

    I don't know where you live but I see people with ipods every day in the subway, every single day.

    --
    This is totally insecure, but very convenient.
  38. Re:I always loved slashdots first opinions by Tim+C · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Agreed. For a tech-oriented site, slashdot is very quick to decry most techonological advances.

  39. Re:Intriguing idea by rainman_bc · · Score: 1

    Some how, Apple's made their products of late fashionable. An ipod looks cool apparantly, so it's a must have product.

    Apple also offers deep discounts to learning institutions. Schools have always been good business for apple for as long as I can remember. I can see why powerbooks are getting more popular; they look great, and are probably just as affordable when you add in the academic discounts.

    --
    09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
  40. It'll never catch on by payndz · · Score: 4, Funny

    Oh, wait...

    --
    You must think in Russian.
  41. Re:how mad is "barking mad?" by zmollusc · · Score: 0

    For me, it is when I am informed of the device's capabilities and price and this data provokes an involuntary choking laughter (which sounds a bit like a dog barking).

    --
    They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
  42. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  43. Year ? by leonbloy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I really hate to having to guess (from the url) the year of an old post. Please, show the year in the post date. It's just 4 chars, man! Am I missing something ?

    1. Re:Year ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Am I missing something ?

      Yes. Set the date format in your prefs, retard.

    2. Re:Year ? by fafaforza · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What will you tell the people who stumble accross a story through Google and do not have an account? Register to view year of this story's publishing?

  44. Small Objects of Desire by iBod · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's been a long, long time since I've been enticed by any piece of consumer electronics.
    I'm not a gadget freak anymore, really.

    But dammit! Apple have created an object of sheer desirability in the iPod - and especially in the iPod mini.

    Despite my (iBod) nickname, It's been many years since I've owned an Apple product (the last was the ill-fated Newton).

    I think Apple really understand which buttons to press to get hip, design-aware customers longing for their products (not that I include myself in that demograph). When they've got the trendsetters, the rest will follow.

    Credit and kudos where it's due. Apple have a killer product that is even making iPod buyers switch from PCs to Macs, allegedly.

    IMHO there will be no 'iPod killer' because nobody understands the intended market for these devices better than Apple.

    No self-respecting kid will thank you for getting him/her a 'no-name' MP3 player this Christmas instead of an iPod.

    1. Re:Small Objects of Desire by fafaforza · · Score: 1

      No self-respecting kid will thank you for getting him/her a 'no-name' MP3 player this Christmas instead of an iPod.

      Well, maybe just the ones that go by features they need, instead of what will impress the kewl kids at school the most.

    2. Re:Small Objects of Desire by numark · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, and how many kids need features that aren't in the iPod? Contrary to popular belief on /., most people in the country don't really care about encoding to Ogg or FLAC, or having some niche feature that very few people ever use. The iPod works for most people (including myself) that have their MP3s and AACs and just want to listen to their music that they already have on iTunes. What other features could the average kid possibly need?

      --
      Want Slashdot headlines on your site? Try SlashHead
  45. Re:Intriguing idea by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1
    Can you use something like Cocoa on Linux?

    Yes. Cocoa is an implementation of what used to be the OPENSTEP specification. The GNUStep project also has an implementation of most of this specification, and a large number of the Apple/Cocoa specific extensions. This makes it relatively easy to port Apple apps to *NIX (and recently Windows), assuming that they only depend on Cocoa/POSIX.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  46. MacSlash by JaJ_D · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...sounds like a scottish pyschopath!

    :-]

    Jaj

    1. Re:MacSlash by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...or stepping into a branch of a fast food chain just to use the toilet

  47. Not To Anger the Mod Gods, But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    ... has anyone else noticed that Slashdot is just overflowing with worshipful fluff articles about Apple products recently (like the last year or two?) I can't help but think that Apple has paid Taco's Corporate Masters for the "inline advertising" that Slashdot used to decry as unethical. Microsoft has banner ads at the top, Apple gets a positive spin story or two a day.

    *** Posting anonymously because whenever I say something negative about Apple when I'm logged in, the mods go straight to my account and mod down every other post I've made in the last few days as revenge.

    1. Re:Not To Anger the Mod Gods, But... by PipsqueakOnAP133 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You're actually kinda right.

      Despite being a mac user, I'm sorta annoying to be flooded by the numerous fans who post so much it decreases the signal/noise ratio in the forums.

      But then again, it's no different when there's a GPL/OpenSource/Linux related article. All of the fans of open source come out in one giant clusterfuck to either applaud a decision, mention "of course it'd be better open source" without actually thinking about the implications, and all the "down with BSD/MIT/etc, all hail RMS and the GPL" type posts.

      Really, there's no way to solve this cuz there's too many cheerleaders of insert-favorite-tech-here.

    2. Re:Not To Anger the Mod Gods, But... by Senjaz · · Score: 1

      Apple is cool with geeks now which is why you get a lot of this. I don't think the increase of slashdot members using macs has had any impact on the signal/noise ratio on /. which has been steadily declining for many years now on its own.

      The mod system is supposed to fix this signal issues, but thanks to fanboi culture both on Mac and Linux side it's flawed.

      Meta-modding is the solution to that so if you want the signal/noise ratio to improve meta-mod more.

      --
      Don't blame me - this .sig had steal me written all over it.
  48. Not even their idea by gilesjuk · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's not like they were even thinking about making an mp3 player until someone pitched the idea to them.

    Apple have no vision beyond making already established ideas better. They're no better than Microsoft in terms of innovation. Microsoft tends to let other people release products, analyse why they suceed/fail and then improve them in some way.

    Apple do the same, but tend to focus on simplicity and the visual design. They like the "cool" factor that makes their products appeal to designers and the in-crowd.

    In fact, OSX follows this concept. They've taken already written software (kernel, X windows etc), improved it and grafted a slick interface on the front.

    1. Re:Not even their idea by b17bmbr · · Score: 1

      In fact, OSX follows this concept. They've taken already written software (kernel, X windows etc), improved it and grafted a slick interface on the front.

      although X windows will run under OS X, and quite nicely, aqua is not even related to it. it isn't an improved version of X. it is derived from openstep.

      --
      My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
    2. Re:Not even their idea by gilesjuk · · Score: 1

      Fair enough, I was under the impression it was X based. But still, compared with Windows I would estimate Apple have written less of their OS than Microsoft has.

      I'm not critical of Apple for utilising open source and Unix code, it's a very fine idea. But what I am critical of is the notion that Apple are so much more creative and forward thinking than Microsoft, this isn't the case. Both are large organisations that rely on the ideas of other smaller companies.

      I personally think the lack of ideas is proven by the photo iPod which is a very minor tweak to an existing product and provides very little extra "wow". I'd have been more impressed if they could have shrunk the unit, improved the battery life etc...

    3. Re:Not even their idea by Col+Bat+Guano · · Score: 2, Insightful
      A lot of the micro kernel was written by Avie Te..(something :-) when he was at University. More work was done in Next which was headed up by Steve Jobs. Next was bought by Apple, so you can say that large sections of the OS were written by them.

      If you look at the driver model you'll see it's definately Apple specific (so i presume they created it).

      The Cocoa framework was created by Next, and adopted/extended by Apple, so is that their innovation?

      The display system using PDF is definately an Apple unique feature, but clearly is based on concepts used by Next (display postscript). I'm not sure what the timeline is on this compared to Sony's NEWS display system (which I think also used postscript).

      Apple have done some truly innovative stuff. Opendoc was brilliant. A desktop bus for slow speed peripherals (ADB) was what USB is now but a long time ago. No fuss networking, hypercard, firewire etc. Not to mention the work they did on making GUIs truly usable.

    4. Re:Not even their idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple have no vision beyond making already established ideas better.

      Well said. Apple isn't a huge investor in basic research. In fact, I believe that major universities play the largest role in innovation - they spend the time and the money to really innovate. Microsoft, Sun, HP, etc etc all do nothing. Maybe IBM is the only exception here, with their extensive research labs.

      The only place where Apple can shine in terms of "innovation" is by recognizing good ideas and turning them into marketplace-changing products.

      The Newton, the iPod, the Apple II and the Mac were not chock full of never-seen-before innovation. The only thing Apple did was recognize the potential and package it in a way so that consumers and marketeers said "oh yeah, Apple found the way to successfully use/sell/popularize:"
      - MP3 player
      - On-line music sales
      - Mouse
      - GUI
      - ... etc etc ad nausium...

    5. Re:Not even their idea by superpulpsicle · · Score: 1

      I criticize Apple alot. I talk trash about their OS about lack of games, overpriced, being linux in a fancy case. The list goes on.

      But when it comes to iPod, the most I can say is that it's alittle buggy. That's how good a product the iPod really is. It's alittle pricy, but it's like nothing I have EVER owned. It's unique in so many ways, that I almost wished Apple had more competition. They have the monopoly now.

    6. Re:Not even their idea by MoneyT · · Score: 1

      The only thing Apple did was recognize the potential and package it in a way so that consumers and marketeers said "oh yeah, Apple found the way to successfully use/sell/popularize:"


      So they innovate then? I mean lets consider this. I have an idea that will revolutionize the world, I know how to go about making a replicator (think star trek). But until I manage to package it together in a useable form, I haven't innovated anything. If you can't put it in a useable form, it doesn't matter one whit whether you thought of it first.

      --
      T Money
      World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
  49. Re:Intriguing idea by kenthorvath · · Score: 3, Informative
    Having everything from power management, wireless, long battery life, and application compatibility just working is such a nice way to live :)

    And don't forget that Apple's machines are almost dead silent. The fans on my inspiron could have matched wits with a 747. I was sitting in class the other day with my iBook and the room was so silent I was afraid that the clicking of a hard drive or the hum of a fan might disturb someone, but there was not a sound from my beloved (geek metaphor). The hardware is just better.

  50. Re:Intriguing idea by jsgates · · Score: 1

    You're obviously not into graphic design, animation, photography, etc etc etc.

  51. One of the most important? by solistus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Err.... I own an iPod, I think it's great, and I realise that it's made Apple a lot of money, but is sticking a nice GUI and interface on a mini HDD and packaging it nicely really anywhere close to as "important" as, say, the first personal computer? No? What about the first GUI for a consumer OS? No again? Or, if we're going to talk in terms of cash cows, how about the iMac, which actually saved Apple? If the company was on its last financial legs before the iPod's debut, I could see calling it one of their most important releases, but making a profitable company more profitable by taking exiting ideas and technology and simply doing them better than anyone else, while significant, can't be compared to innovations that changed the world forever à la MacOS or Apple I.

    In conclusion, profitable =/= important

    1. Re:One of the most important? by the+pickle · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Important to Apple, or important to the world?

      I submit that the iPod will be the latter, and without having RTFA, suspect this is the direction the authors were going.

      Why, you ask?

      The iPod could be the device that eventually breaks Microsoft's stranglehold on the computer industry. The important point here isn't that the iPod has been fantastically profitable to Apple. It has, but that doesn't matter. What matters is that the iPod has done more for Apple's "mind-share" than anything since the famous "1984" advertisement. The results of the recent study indicating that some 13% of iPod customers are already (or are planning to become) Macintosh owners are nothing less than spectacular. If Apple can play this advantage into greater Macintosh market share -- even as little as 10-15 percent, compared to less than five percent right now -- several things will happen:

      1) You can get away with excluding two or three percent of your user base. You cannot get away with excluding ten percent of it. This will force companies to design Web sites that work on ALL computers, not just the latest Windows box.

      2) Two to three percent of people can be dismissed as the lunatic fringe. It's a lot harder to dismiss ten percent as the lunatic fringe. Thus, the Macintosh becomes more of a mainstream platform, and PHBs start realising that there's an alternative to Windows for the corporate world.

      3) In conjunction with #1, software developers now have a much larger potential market, encouraging them to bring quality products to the Macintosh where none previously existed. The lack of specialty software is the ONLY thing keeping a large number of my friends from switching to a Macintosh.

      Should this come to pass, it's unlikely that history will remember the iPod as the catalyst, mostly because the Macintosh and Apple I were directly significant to the computer industry, whereas the iPod itself isn't a particularly revolutionary device. Of course, history hasn't remembered a lot of things as they should have been.

      p

    2. Re:One of the most important? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hahahaha.....
      yeah. cuz slashdot is such a trendy audience....they just couldn't miss that demographic......
      hahahahahahahaha!!!!!

      get real man. maybe people just like macs. you just wait and see. macs are gonna become mainstream among young people pretty soon.....

  52. You know what, for once, I've RTFA by RasputinAXP · · Score: 2, Informative

    and the TFA is a POS.

    1. Re:You know what, for once, I've RTFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      word

      now that the whole internet music thing has gone "legal," The artists make about the same, and there isn't anything they can do about it. It was better free, and I bet even some artists agree. Some. Kind of. Sort of. Not really.

      Well, I don't know for sure, but I bet the free music helped most of them more than it hurt them. It lets more people hear more music. When has that hurt anyone???

      Exactly.

  53. Re:Intriguing idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh how little you know, you small insignificant troll...

  54. Re:Intriguing idea by skingers6894 · · Score: 1

    Actually you can get an x86 that runs Darwin/X which is the same thing as OSX "except no aqua"... ...which is a bit like the same thing as Dolly Parton - just without the chest...

  55. Can you say 'Hoover' ? by iBod · · Score: 1

    In 20 years time, I'll bet people will be saying 'iPod' when they mean generic personal, life-style-enhancing, thingummy.

  56. oh for gods sakes... by j4ck50n · · Score: 0, Troll
    its a freekin mp3 player...get over it. a "history" of? its only a couple years old!

    stop the hype, stop the insanity!

  57. Photoshop/Illustrator by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah. Forget that, didja?

    When linux has those without a virtualization layer, we'll talk.

  58. If Britney Spears can put out a "Greatest Hits"... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    ...album after five years in the business*, then why not have a story on the history of the iPod, which is bound to be more interesting?

    * The all-time record for "most pointless 'greatest hits' album" goes to early-90s dance music purveyors TKA, whose third (yes, THIRD) album was "Greatest Hits."

  59. Re:SLASHDOT HAS SOLD OUT TO APPLE! NEVER TRUST /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ah, good point. There's also quite a large troll population.

  60. Re:I always loved slashdots first opinions by rampant+mac · · Score: 1
    "Most of the editor's comments end up being incendiary or show that they are profoundly out of touch with reality."

    I'm sorry, were you talking about Slashdot, or Fox News?

    --
    I like big butts and I cannot lie.
  61. Re:Intriguing idea by TheNetAvenger · · Score: 1

    You're obviously not into graphic design, animation, photography, etc etc etc.

    How strange, another myopic statement in a Mac zealot frenzy of posts.

    Graphic design is surging to the Windows/PC at an alarming rate for Apple.

    With the Adobe memos stating PCs are faster for their products, to the number of Publishers and Editors that are retiring Macs. (PS. One of my company's clients is one of the largest syndication and publishers in the US.) We deal with Mac migration at what would be alarming rates if Apple truly cared about the industry it once thrived in.

    Next, factor in the Hollywood market, again the surge has been to Windows and *nix based systems for rendering farms.

    And if you belive getting photos off a camera or flash drive on a Mac is easier than doing so on a WindowsXP based PC, you apparently haven't compared the two.

    If you so truly believe the Mac is a better Graphic Design platform, you either have found a feature that the majority of the market hasn't or just like believing your own hyperboles.

  62. Re:I always loved slashdots first opinions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is it really that hard for you to understand that the iPod does not contain any technological advancements? There were no technologies that weren't already available when the iPod was released.

  63. Re:No wonder it's their most important profit by addaon · · Score: 1

    What manufacturer would that be?

    --

    I've had this sig for three days.
  64. Re:Intriguing idea by SlamMan · · Score: 1

    Please. Apple has never been the platform of choice for rendering farms. They may be in the future, but they're going up from zero.

    --
    Mod point free since 2001
  65. How cool is it? by Dr.+Sigmund+Freud · · Score: 2, Funny
    They like the "cool" factor that makes their products appeal to designers and the in-crowd.
    The iPod is so cool that they are now using it to sell sex.

    Caution: Linky NSFW.

  66. Re:Intriguing idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not entirely true. Mac OS X uses MACH, so apps build upon it are quite harder to port ie. to ELF. Not to mention many frameworks, which are avaible only on OS X (ie. WebKit, CoreAudio/Image etc.)

    GNUStep takes many ideas from OPENSTEP, but still need much work to be done to be fully comparable to OPENSTEP API.

    To be fair, Cocoa is also missing some great things from OPENSTEP :(

  67. Favorite Comment from the Previous Article by Seoulstriker · · Score: 4, Funny

    Raise your hand if you have iTunes ...

    Raise your hand if you have a FireWire port ...

    Raise your hand if you have both ...

    Raise your hand if you have $400 to spend on a cute Apple device ...

    There is Apple's market. Pretty slim, eh? I don't see many sales in the future of iPod.

    ~LoudMusic


    October 23rd, 2001. Priceless. :-D

    --
    I am defenseless. Use your button. Mod me down with all of your hatred.
    1. Re:Favorite Comment from the Previous Article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, I have NONE of those...

      Stupid overpriced iPods.

    2. Re:Favorite Comment from the Previous Article by bilgebag · · Score: 1

      > There is Apple's market. Pretty slim, eh?

      Too right, how many people with five hands do you know?

    3. Re:Favorite Comment from the Previous Article by AkaXakA · · Score: 1

      Raise your hand if you have iTunes ...
      That was indeed a problem as it's the program to use to get music on your iPod and into iTMS. So Apple ported iTunes to windows, and made it freely availible.

      Raise your hand if you have a FireWire port ...
      So apple also made an usb version, as every windows pc made in the last 4 years has an usb port.

      Raise your hand if you have both ...
      Yup. Well, the free iTunes for windows and usb anyway.

      Raise your hand if you have $400 to spend on a cute Apple device ...
      Hehe. Marketing.

  68. A Briefer History of The iPod by trouser · · Score: 1

    First there was the guitar or maybe the ukelele, so many vowels - so few strings. Actually in some places there was also the banjo. OK, so first there were instruments and you'd strum a little song and be all up-ons with the ladies.

    This was superseded by the record player. Not so good - how to get the ladies to visit, doesn't work by the campfire without a long extension lead. Then the jukebox - brilliant, put the record player where the ladies is.

    Then the Walkman, no ladies, the smaller Walkman, still no ladies, CD Walkman, ladies? Creative portable hard-drive thingo, ditto, iPod, iPods with progressively larger drives, mini iPod because, as the ladies say, size isn't important, and finally the iPod Photo with the tunes and the pictures, of the ladies, from the Internet.

    Hello the ladies of the Internet. Wanna see my iPod?

    --
    Now wash your hands.
  69. Uh, yeah. by Scudsucker · · Score: 1

    The article says that Fadell shopped his idea around before settling on Apple. As this is the history of the *iPod*, who came up with the ideas of hard drive players or music stores is not relevant. Save your complaining for a history of mp3 players in general.

    +5 Needless Nitpicking

  70. And here are the precursors by Bj�rn+Stenberg · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Since so many people are confused/misled about who invented what regarding harddisk mp3 players, I created this simple history page:

    http://www.rockbox.org/playerhistory/

    It may surprise some people to see that the iPod was announced a full two years after the first harddisk-based mp3 player.

    1. Re:And here are the precursors by Thu25245 · · Score: 1

      Nice history; I was only aware of the Nomad.

      The page also gives hints to the reason why iPod was first to succeed: it was 100 grams lighter than any previous device, and used FireWire instead of USB 1.1

    2. Re:And here are the precursors by aristotle-dude · · Score: 1
      Sure but look at the other players. They were big, bulky and ugly.

      WTF where the guys at Archos smoking? Who wants to carry around a big rectangle that looks like it has a bunch of floatation devices attached to the corners? Those things were so big that you could not put them in your pocket and those damn things on the corners did not help matters. They all screamed "geek".

      --
      Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
  71. Re:I always loved slashdots first opinions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    he was talking about slashdot

  72. users backing up before MTBF by goon · · Score: 1

    iPod has been a savior of Apple. The hardware has actually been driving sales of downloaded music and this fact has not been unnoticed by the business world. Hence the term, *iPod killer*.

    Users typically spend a bity of time creating, transferring their music titles to the pod. But what happens at the end of the hard drive life? I wonder what steps a typical user has taken to backup their 40/80 Gb of music?

    Will they be tempted to save their 40Gb to hard drive before any hardware problems occur? What is the MTBF of the iPod? [www.ipodhacks.com, iPod Boot Disk Burnout, 20,000 hrs]

    Will the cost offset the user disatisfaction? Or will enough users purchased the next version with suitable upgrade of their music lists?

    --
    peterrenshaw ~ Another Scrappy Startup
    1. Re:users backing up before MTBF by Dr.+Sigmund+Freud · · Score: 1
      Users typically spend a bity of time creating, transferring their music titles to the pod. But what happens at the end of the hard drive life? I wonder what steps a typical user has taken to backup their 40/80 Gb of music?

      Backup of the iPod is not an issue. The Mac/PC HD already has all the songs uploaded to the iPod.

      The wise probably have a backup (or three) of their HD as well.

  73. Re:I always loved slashdots first opinions by the+pickle · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That's because the Slashdot crowd seems to be fairly pragmatic.

    Most technological advances that make the news here are in-development technologies that may or may not bear fruit in five to ten years. And if anything, the experience of the last 50 years should have taught us that no matter how many times flying cars and nuclear fusion are predicted to be 10 years off, they seem to be perpetually 10 years off.

    I think the /. crowd mostly thinks in terms of "what can you do for me NOW," and as a result, you get a lot of people saying "Gee, [innovation] won't lead to anything useful with the next year or two, so it's not important to me." The sad part is, they're right most of the time. Don't believe me? Go grab an issue of Popular Science or Popular Mechanics from the mid-1980s.

    p

  74. Re:Intriguing idea by darkwhite · · Score: 1

    IBM Thinkpad T40 and X40 series kick Apple's ass in terms of battery life, expandability, number of IBM-supplied peripherals, legacy compatibility, size, noise level, CPU performance, video performance, and durability, primarily thanks to the Pentium M CPU and the 9.5mm drive bay.

    Unfortunately, there's still no way of installing OS X on them.

    Yes, I do own one. And while it's true that a lot of people at my university have bought powerbooks and ibooks fairly recently, I also see a ton of T40s.

    --

    [an error occurred while processing this directive]
  75. Re:I always loved slashdots first opinions by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

    You just have to know what to look for. The significant article would be the one covering the Compaq Personal DJ (Something like the PDJ-100; can't find any references anymore). It showed the future.

    Although people here will continually obsess about things like Ogg support, sometimes their whining has value. If you have something that works technically, and has enough marketing muscle behind it, you have a winner.

    Oddly, some of the best "tips" I've gotten have come from Slashdot. Both short term positions and long-term strategies. The complaints Taco made about the iPod give a useful insight into all the iPod killer reviews today, and the future direction... just know what to look for!

  76. Aren't you forgetting something? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wonder what steps a typical user has taken to backup their 40/80 Gb of music?

    Hey, genius, you are aware that there's a complete copy of the music on the iPod sitting in the computer's iTunes library, right?

    If the iPod drive dies, you don't lose anything. If the computer's drive dies, it's possible to retrieve the songs from the iPod, but you lose anything that wasn't on the iPod's drive.

  77. Re:Intriguing idea by finkployd · · Score: 1

    That may be, I gave up on Thinkpads after the T23.

    I should look at the T40 sometime.

  78. RE: leveraging the iPod by King_TJ · · Score: 1

    I think Apple is already trying to leverage the iPod popularity ... The new iMac G5 looking rather like a huge, docked iPod is no accident. (Look at the advertising they've done where you see the two side-by-side, if you don't think it's intentional!)

    The stock analysts are expecting an increase in Mac sales too, based on strong iPod sales. They know the iPod is acting as a "bridge" of sorts, getting folks to consider Apple as a solid brand making quality products.

    IMHO, Apple's biggest dilemma is software availability. When you buy your iPod, you can find just about any music you like and it can play it. When you buy your first iMac or iBook though - you CAN'T yet find quite a few programs (especially games, but apps too like AutoCAD, or a current version of Street Atlas USA... and the "promise" I once heard of Microsoft making Mac versions of all their apps is far from reality too). Don't get me wrong; there's a LOT of good stuff to run on a Mac. I own 3 Macs over here right now! But it's gonna dampen some people's experiences when they go to buy, say, Half Life 2, and find out "Oh, no Mac version is even so much as *planned* to ever come out?"

  79. Good technology, junky design by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I see more of these come in for service at Best Buy than computers. We may take in 10 computers a week but I promise we take in at leat 25 ipods for each 10 computers.

    1. Re:Good technology, junky design by reiggin · · Score: 1

      People don't carry their desktops with them when they jog. Seriously... it's like a cell phone or PDA more than it is a computer. At least in that regard. iPods take a lot of abuse. A lot more than your PC ever will.

  80. Uh, No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I could easily say it started when Stan Ng came up with the idea and he and Jeff Robbin mocked up the iPod UI.

    I credit Tony Fadell with a lot in relation to the iPod. A lot more than Apple lets on in general. But he was more instrumental in producing the product than actually being the genesis for the idea.

    And as you or others have said, iPod would have been nothing without the good UI (which owes to Pixo) and the integration to iTunes. Tony didn't bring either of these with him to Apple, both of those ideas were not his.

  81. Knauss didn't quit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Benjamin Knauss did not quit. He was fired.

    I have to say it disappoints me greatly when stories fail to reveal the true backgrounds of their sources. It makes a big difference to hear Knauss was fired, doesn't it? Makes you wonder about the story and the "facts" in it?

    When this happens, I wonder, was Wired too lazy to get to the bottom of what really happened? Or did they find out and realize it made their story less valuable? Either one makes me realize I don't want to get news from them.

    And the same thing with Paul Mercer. He's often used about stories about the Mac or Newton. But stories inevitably mention how he quit Apple in digust. Paul Mercer was also fired (in this case from Apple). Note also that Mercer went on to form Pixo (the libraries used for the iPod UI), but don't go making the mistake that Mercer was responsible for the iPod UI. He was critical in the development of the Pixo toolbox, but he was long gone before the iPod adopted Pixo and thus Paul had nothing to do with it.

    It's amazing how stories take on a life of their own. No one means to corrupt the truth, but it does happen. Seeing inaccurate stories like this or "Pirates of Silicon Valley" (which was entertaining) makes me wonder how much I can trust history of other sorts.

  82. innovation doens't require invention by Scudsucker · · Score: 1

    As the AC pointed out, yes the GUI was invented before Apple came along (and XEROX as well), but Apple were the first to take this proof-of-concept and make it usable.

  83. nonsense by Scudsucker · · Score: 2, Insightful

    regard to the IPod being not an inovation. MP3 players have been around for ages.

    Invention is not required for innovation. Yes there were small players before the iPod, and larger capacity players before the iPod, but there weren't any other players that had a large capacity in a compact form factor. There was nothing else like the iPod at the time of its introduction. Nothing. That, and the industry has followed Apple in making small size-high capacity players, most with hard drives. How is that *not* the definition of innovation?

    Apple just have great marketing. That's all there is to it.

    Snob. The iPod is a phenomenon because Apple made a product with the best combination of features and it took a very long time before anyone could touch them. And its *still* arguably a superior product because of its interface and software integration. Apple's compeditors seem to think they'll have an "iPod killer" on their hands if they take a billeted list its features and one up them. But just because your player has a couple more hours of batter life and costs $40 less doesn't automatically mean you have a better product on your hands. The iPod succeeded because it had a great mix of features, and to beat it your player will have to do the same.

    1. Re:nonsense by glesga_kiss · · Score: 1, Flamebait
      The iPod is a phenomenon because Apple made a product with the best combination of features and it took a very long time before anyone could touch them.

      Bollocks. It's technologically inferiour. It is very limited in what you can do. Each update deliberately breaks functionality that Apple deem undersirable; not the kind of product I want to buy into, I tend to go for the ones that have more features as time goes by. It DOES have a great UI, something Apple are very good at.

      The iPod succeeded because it had a great mix of features, and to beat it your player will have to do the same.

      Sigh. You really don't know the power of marketing, do you? Everyone seems to think the iPod is the best around, when technically it isn't. The point of marketing is to make the marketplace believe that your product is the superiour one. When you are in a shop, this familiarity breeds trust and product recognition. It clearly is working.

    2. Re:nonsense by Scudsucker · · Score: 1

      It's technologically inferiour. It is very limited in what you can do. Each update deliberately breaks functionalit

      Blah blah blah. Either come up with some specifics (which I'll debunk anyway) or just admit you're an anti-Apple snob who would blow off an Apple-invented cure for cancer as "just marketing".

    3. Re:nonsense by glesga_kiss · · Score: 1
      Either come up with some specifics (which I'll debunk anyway) or just admit you're an anti-Apple snob

      I just did! I said you are not free to do what you wish with your music. I want a device that allows me to use it as a portable hard-drive, copy music/data on and off at my will. I DO NOT want to get a device that loses features on each firmware upgrade, at the whim of the recording industry.

      I'll be buying an OPEN device, that let's ME do what I want, with MY music.

    4. Re:nonsense by Moofie · · Score: 1

      Hmm, here I am browsing the directory tree of my iPod. I can copy any file off of it that I want to.

      There are a handful of software packages that make this transparent. iTunes doesn't, because it would jeopardize Apple's relationship with the recording industry. I don't like it too much, but it doesn't get in my way enough to cause me any headache.

      The features that are being removed are non-standard hacks. Nobody should be surprised that non-standard hacks die when you update software. Nobody should also be surprised when then non-standard hackers have fixes within 24 hours.

      I'd love to see another database driven music management app. ITunes is absolutely the best at what it does, and it works seamlessly with my iPod. There are zero additional features that I would think are useful.

      You're entitled to your (different) opinion, but Apple has this thing DONE RIGHT.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    5. Re:nonsense by glesga_kiss · · Score: 1
      For me, you and the rest of the Slashdot community, sure WE can get files of the iPod using hacks. But Joe Sixpack can't, and that is why I don't like it. It sets a bad trend that will likely continue in these devices.

      Don't get me wrong, the iPod is a great little piece of kit. But it's not the best.

      I'd love to see another database driven music management app.

      Good. :-) I've been working on one for the last year! Long way away tho.

    6. Re:nonsense by Moofie · · Score: 1

      Why does your purchasing decision depend on the actions of other people? I mean, sure, if you're opposed in principle to Apple accomodating the recording companies, I can understand that, but to me Apple's small compromise there has enabled them to make some cool stuff.

      I don't know what "best" means for anybody but myself, and for my purposes, there's nothing else that's remotely close.

      I'll be eager to take a look at your app...IFF it supports my iPod. : )

      Oh yeah and AirTunes.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    7. Re:nonsense by glesga_kiss · · Score: 1
      Why does your purchasing decision depend on the actions of other people? I mean, sure, if you're opposed in principle to Apple accomodating the recording companies, I can understand that, but to me Apple's small compromise there has enabled them to make some cool stuff.

      True, they would neve have gotten the media library from the record industry without it.

      I've seen this before though; DVDs. The whole multi-region thing comes from the studios refusal to accept DVD without it. So, as an early adopter of DVD in the UK (which had a very limited catalogue to begin with), I am very much against these kinds of restrictions.

      Also, people are new to this technology and have no expectations. If they are introduced to it in this limited way, the vast majority of the people will never know that you could use an iPod to transfer files back and forth. All because a few music execs said so. That's just wrong. The IT industry trounces the media industry in terms of turnover, so I don't see why we have to pander to them.

      I'll be eager to take a look at your app...IFF it supports my iPod. : )

      It will, it's an open system!

    8. Re:nonsense by Moofie · · Score: 1

      "If they are introduced to it in this limited way, the vast majority of the people will never know that you could use an iPod to transfer files back and forth."

      The vast majority of people won't care. I haven't ever had occasion to do this, and if I did want to, it's trivially easy. You might argue that your average Joe doesn't know how to maintain a car...should they then not buy one?

      People can learn how to solve problems.

      "The IT industry trounces the media industry in terms of turnover, so I don't see why we have to pander to them."

      The IT industry has zero political clout. That's why we have to pander to them. 'Tain't right, but it's reality.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
  84. Re: leveraging the iPod by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

    Agree again. The only real problem for me right now is AutoCAD. Almost everything else can be solved, but I can't ditch the work Dell for a mac until Autodesk gets on board.

    The real problem for Apple, though, is not software but hardware supply issues. Software is the difference between a 10% and a 25% market share; hardware is the difference between 6% and 10%. Have to get over the first hurdle before you worry about the second!

  85. Semi O/T by marvy666 · · Score: 1

    Whats some good software to use with a 4th generation iPod? I've heard theres 3rd party software out there that allows you to use it more like a portable HD? Any good free software?

  86. Re:No wonder it's their most important profit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I suppose if you have a very small sub-notebook machine it might be 1.8", but really - what Manufacturer/Model do you own that has a 1.8" disk? The vast majority are 2.5".

    Don't be shy now, tell us.

  87. Re:Intriguing idea by Ilgaz · · Score: 1

    I don't get why you pc guys liking OS X doesn't use WindowMaker or Afterstep as your windowmanager than.

    Believe me, its really similar desktop approach, they are openstep stuff which is derived from NexTStep.

    It was funny that I installed windowmaker with Fink to OS X and asked myself "wtf I just did?"

  88. Re:No wonder it's their most important profit by TheNetAvenger · · Score: 1

    There are several notebooks and even subnotebooks with 1.8 drives that have been around for quite a while, are you serious?

    We have two laptops that are 1.8 drive based, the one I was specifically referring to was the Toshiba Protege.

    When did Slashdot go from being the cutting tech edge/Open Source news site to the newbie and Apple (Closed Hardware/Software) fan site?

    Did I miss the memo?

    I see more informed responses on newbie newsgroups than I see here anymore, sad, very sad.

  89. Re:Intriguing idea by TheNetAvenger · · Score: 1

    Please. Apple has never been the platform of choice for rendering farms. They may be in the future, but they're going up from zero.

    Actually you are pretty much correct, but there was a surge of Mac rendering farms, mainly from the custom design software of the time around 2000, when MacOSX was merely a Server OS.

    However, you would have thought with MacOX becoming the System software of Apple it would have continued to climb, instead Linix and WindowsXP/2000/2003 systems are both the growing trend for best design and rendering bang for the buck.

  90. History of Hard Disk Players by meehawl · · Score: 2, Informative

    Anyone have any links to articles that might have a more broad history of the MP3 player in general?

    Try this:

    http://www.rockbox.org/playerhistory/

    --

    Da Blog
  91. Re:Intriguing idea by MarcQuadra · · Score: 1

    They do pour a disproportionate amount of R&D into the iPod. But remember that if you take a great product that posts a profit and throw millions of R&D at it it might really eat into that profitability. There's VERY little Apple can get from R&D on an iPod, the whole thing is made up of commodity parts. The only thing Apple does is provide an OS for the embedded ARM chip and put all the pieces together inside a nice pretty case (yes, they design the board in there too).

    Why destroy a profit-center by spending excessively on it? Especially when you're not gonna get much out of it.

    --
    "Sometimes, I think Trent just needs a cup of hot chocolate and a blankie." -Tori Amos on Nine Inch Nails
  92. gapless playback of mixes by djdavetrouble · · Score: 1

    This has always been a problem with mp3, there was the gapless plugin for winamp, itunes attempts it with 'crossfade' except with a zero value crossfade there is still a wierd little skip or gap between tracks. I have seen the rip groups using one big mp3 and a cue file, but as far as I know no mp3 portable supports them, and itunes certainly does not, not sure what windows app does but obviously there is one. Surely this is one thing the mp3 scene has not dealt with. I don't mind ripping mixes as one joined track, since the ipod's scrubbing is excellent, and it is easy to skip forward _and_ backward through a mix using scrub.
    I have found that most people that I talk to and people that I sell custom mixes to prefer tracked cd's though.

    --
    music lover since 1969
  93. Re:I always loved slashdots first opinions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mine was free too. Though I must say I think they are well worth the money compared to similar devices.

    Even my PC loving GF wants one:
    http://www.mp3players4free.com/default.aspx? r=7214

  94. Anapod by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    has anyone ever tried Anapod Explorer?

    http://www.redchairsoftware.com/anapod/

  95. the ipod by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i know where toget a brand new free 20g ipod for free go to

    www.tech4free.com/default.aspx?ref=191723