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Setting up a High-Tech Language School?

Bakerybob writes "My wife and I are currently setting up a small Japanese language school, and I am in charge of all of the technical aspects, with a small but not tiny budget. What would Slashdot recommend as technologies we could use to improve the student experience (and hopefully to interest more students in the school!)? We have the easy bases (free Wifi access for students, a stunningly poorly designed homepage, and a few cheap computers lying around for them to play on between classes) covered, but I'm sure there are a lot of better ideas out there. Has anyone used Moogle? What about online lessons via webcam? Give it your best shot, revolutionary thinkers!"

332 comments

  1. Ask.Slashdot: We'll do your work for you! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful


    BakeryBob writes "My wife and I are currently setting up a small Japanese language school, and I am in charge of all of the technical aspects. I haven't done a lick of homework so I thought to ask all you slashdotters to do my work for me. What would Slashdot recommend as technologies we could use to improve the student experience? Has anyone used Moogle? What about online lessons via webcam? Give it your best shot, revolutionary thinkers!" There, that last bit of brown nosing will get some answers. I hate work!

    1. Re:Ask.Slashdot: We'll do your work for you! by mordors9 · · Score: 1

      Maybe use some of the money to hire a consultant that might actually know something. I mean seriously, you have read slashdot before haven't you?

    2. Re:Ask.Slashdot: We'll do your work for you! by Tenebrious1 · · Score: 1

      1. Come up with a very basic idea with no details.
      2. Ask Slashdot for opinions.
      3. ???
      4. Profit!

      Seriously, does he want us to write his business plan for him?

      --
      -- If god wanted me to have a sig, he'd have given me a sense of humor.
    3. Re:Ask.Slashdot: We'll do your work for you! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm thinking about constructing a device with wheels and an internal combustion engine which will serve to convey people to and from places. I'm thinking about calling it an automobile. Does anyone have any ideas, feedback, suggestions, donations?

    4. Re:Ask.Slashdot: We'll do your work for you! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, you dickhead. He is asking for some ideas.. off the top of your head. How hard would it be?... And what would it cost you?

      /. has a lot of technical readers that are full of ideas.. What's wrong with trying to get some free input from highly skilled nerds?

    5. Re:Ask.Slashdot: We'll do your work for you! by rednip · · Score: 1
      Maybe use some of the money to hire a consultant that might actually know something.
      might is the key word in that statement. You might was well take the money, go to Las Vegas and spin the wheel, you'd likely have the same expected results. Consultants are a crap shoot, in particular for a single job and a small firm. Besides the guy said he had a small budget, not a medium or big one; Consultants (or at least the ones I have worked with) have a habit of going with expensive options.

      Gotta admit that your suggestion about getting a consultant is a valid option, but I think posting the question on ./ is a good start, at least he might be able to get some of the basic ideas on the table, so quizing the prospective consultant would be a little easier.

      --
      The force that blew the Big Bang continues to accelerate.
    6. Re:Ask.Slashdot: We'll do your work for you! by ZenFu · · Score: 1

      I would have to go with the other poster on this one and say that he is probably not some technically impoverished harvard mba coming to slashdot for a business plan.

      And if he is, I don't think you'll have to worry about him getting insanely rich anytime soon.

  2. PDAs by b0lt · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Give/rent the students iPaqs running Linux. They have a huge "awesome" factor, and are useful too :)

    --
    got sig?
    1. Re:PDAs by Sewer+Panda · · Score: 1

      Even just having PDAs loaded with eBooks on topics that are relevant to your material would be a huge help. By having the course material with them all the time (without the back breaking weight of most backpacks filled with books), they will appreciate their classes more.

      --
      I have neither class nor rank. I am unique.
  3. Nothing to see here... move along by Dejohn · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Offtopic I know, but why do I seem to be getting the message "Nothing to see here... move along" on the newer articles at first these days?

    1. Re:Nothing to see here... move along by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You need to clear your cache.

    2. Re:Nothing to see here... move along by northcat · · Score: 1

      First of all parent is right. And no, it has nothing to do with cache. Second of all, if this is 'off-topic' here, then where the fuck is it on-topic? This is not a fucking forum, you know. He has to post it somewhere!

  4. How about a disappointment booth? by greenmars · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How about a big disappointment booth for your students after they spend all that time and money learning Japanese and then they find out that Japanese companies don't want to hire them (they hire Japanese) and non-Japanese companies don't want to hire them (they'll hire Japanese)? (from bitter, bitter experience and many wasted years in college)

    1. Re:How about a disappointment booth? by stratjakt · · Score: 1

      I thought "Japanese language school" meant a school that was taught in Japanese, for non-english speaking Japanese living over here.

      I guess it could be a school for teaching the Japanese language.

      I'd recommend the submitter first take a few courses in effective communication skills.

      But then, those who can, do.. Those who cant, teach.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    2. Re:How about a disappointment booth? by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 1
      Hey, greenmars. I don't mean to rub salt in a wound, but there will always be companies out there that hire american japanese speakers. You're right that they'll probably give preference to native speakers, but nobody said your PRIMARY function would be speaking japanese. That could just be a nice secondary thing that might encourage the company to pay you a lot of money to be overseas for them.

      --
      Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
    3. Re:How about a disappointment booth? by fireboy1919 · · Score: 1

      Right. You could be a secretary for the actual translator. Then your primary function would be to get coffee, collate, and if your boss isn't good, to convert Engrish into English.

      --
      Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
    4. Re:How about a disappointment booth? by FesterDaFelcher · · Score: 1

      The school is IN JAPAN, so these people are already working over there. The school teaches language and culture, so that the Razy Amelicans can learn to fit in better.

      --
      My user number is prime. Is yours?
    5. Re:How about a disappointment booth? by greenmars · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that'll work. (Again, from long bitter experience.)

    6. Re:How about a disappointment booth? by TheHonestTruth · · Score: 1
      And those that can't teach, teach gym.

      Shamelessly biting School of Rock,
      -truth

      --

      I had a steady B+ in my AI class until I failed the Turing test...

    7. Re:How about a disappointment booth? by fredrated · · Score: 0

      But then, those who can, do.. Those who cant, teach

      That is a disgusting calumny that should never have been repeated. Without teachers we would still be at the level of flint knives and clubs.

      Besides that, your logic is crap and you need to go back to school.
      The statement logically means
      "If you can't do then you teach"
      It doesn't mean "If you teach then you couldn't do". These have different meanings, figure it out.

      Stupidity: it's a renewable resource!

    8. Re:How about a disappointment booth? by Wescotte · · Score: 1

      How about a big disappointment booth for your students after they spend all that time and money learning Japanese and then they find out that Japanese companies don't want to hire them (they hire Japanese) and non-Japanese companies don't want to hire them (they'll hire Japanese)? (from bitter, bitter experience and many wasted years in college)

      Nobody wants to learn Japaneese to get a job! It's strictly for playing import games (mostly RPGs). That way you can be l33t and spoil the story for your loser friends you can't read Japaneese.

    9. Re:How about a disappointment booth? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which brings us to those who can't teach gym. (They administrate).

    10. Re:How about a disappointment booth? by pretygrrl · · Score: 1

      Hm. We can quibble over logic. Or.. we can talk substance.
      Teachers SUCK! The vast, overwhelming, depressing majority of teachers... suck. They only became teachers after realizing that it was the 1 thing they could safely do with a college degree without admitting that degree was totally useless.
      After 16 yrs of school (graduate degree) I can honestly say I have fond memories of maybe... 2 teachers? The rest were vain, ill - informed, bitter and o so very, very resentful of any student showing promise of success!
      I hate teachers. For them most part thay are motivated by all the wrong things! They want lots of time off, a short work day, a generous pension and as little responsibility as possible.
      In New York City, things are so bad, its like ... a crime! They are an entrenched part of a system that, by consigning great numbers of kids to lifetimes of missed opportunities, are commiting a real crime, IMHO. And seeing the whole worthless.
      bunch of them on trial would make my day.
      As to where we would be w/o them.... lets see, reading books and learning actual skills out in the world?

      --
      Contemplate the marvel that is existence, and rejoice that you are able to do so.
    11. Re:How about a disappointment booth? by Srin+Tuar · · Score: 1


      Languages are always supplemental, they never make the main thrust of a career, so learning them in college is probably a bit of a waste.

      OTOH, picking up Japanese in your free time just to watch anime is worthwhile, imo ;)

    12. Re:How about a disappointment booth? by archen · · Score: 1

      Assuming that they learn Japanese to get a job. I mean it's just as relavent to learn Japanese to pick up Japanese chicks. Assuming that half the population is female, that extends your mating pool to 63 Million more women who won't talk to you (even in another language).

      Personally I've actually used my (TERRIBLE) Japanese to feign that I'm not American in other countries.

    13. Re:How about a disappointment booth? by master_meio · · Score: 0

      Ha ha ha ha... Ching-chang-ching-chong you lost you lost... haa haa haa haa haa. Looks like you would have been a better fit at ITT tech, with all the other dumb kids. ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha "technical college" ha ha ha ha ha ha

    14. Re:How about a disappointment booth? by Darken_Everseek · · Score: 1

      Taking Japanese as a major was probably a mistake. The key is to take an unrelated field of study, and make japanese an extra, a resume booster. I can get a job as an engineer in japan, the fact that I've taken some japanese is just a bonus.

    15. Re:How about a disappointment booth? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow! You know absolutely nothing. Or, you had a bad experience in Japan because your Japanese sucks, or you have no marketable skills.

      I am bilingual in English and Japanese. I lived in Japan for 14 years. I started learning Japanese out of school as an adult. It wasn't easy, but I learned the language. I was given a serious job offer from Japanese companies about once every two months. The last two jobs I was offered were for CIO slots, one for a company preparing to go public.

      You know nothing about Japanese companies, or that culture. However, the idea about the disapointment booth is really funny. The truth is, language ability alone gets you no where.

    16. Re:How about a disappointment booth? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So very true. I work for my local school board and just today (the last day before Christmas holidays) a principal called the helpdesk. The person who took the call had to walk her through the basics of computers ('yes, you double-click... click twice fast') because she couldn't get into MVAL (our teacher evaluation system).

    17. Re:How about a disappointment booth? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm a consultant here in Japan, and quite white and American. I never took Japanese in college, and that is why I don't suck at it. I came here and learned. No professional foreigner I have ever met studied in college, they all learned in the country. Learning Japanese is easy, you just come here. Language schools may be nice, I don't know, but coming here and just finding a tutor is a better idea, as there are tons of them and they are cheap. That's it.

      Wait, that gives me an idea.....

      Anyway, language schools? Yeah, that'll work, sure.... Spend months on end in a room speaking Japanese with other people who don't speak Japanese. Bullshit. Maybe if you had really small class sizes, but immersion is the key. I have met people who went to language schools, and their accents let you know right off the bat they didn't learn Japanese by mimicing natives but from other foreigners trying to mimic natives. Not going to work.

    18. Re:How about a disappointment booth? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't it amazing people pay money to go to language schools in the country the language is being spoken. It makes no sense. Your post is right on. Go to a Japanese school in Japan and listen to bad Japanese all day. It is like going to a hospital and getting ill.

    19. Re:How about a disappointment booth? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, not everybody gets screwed over. I currently work as a technical writer in Japan for a company that gives me total flextime (i.e. as long as I work 40 hours a week, I'm fine) and treats me with respect. Maybe, you know, you make your own luck?

    20. Re:How about a disappointment booth? by Takumi2501 · · Score: 1

      "As to where we would be w/o them [teachers].... lets see, reading books and learning actual skills out in the world?"

      Um... I once heard a statistic stating that after leaving school, the average American (and I'm sure the same holds true here in Canada) reads about 0.6 books.

      Don't get me wrong, I do think the education system is in desperate need of an overhaul, but eliminating teachers definately isn't the way to go.

      --
      Sent from my computer.
      Now GET OFF MY LAWN!
    21. Re:How about a disappointment booth? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a 'juku' a privately run school for people who realize the shortcomings in the school system and are willing to pay for the privaledge of being properly taught. BTW The most important aspect of a juku is it must show actual results.

    22. Re:How about a disappointment booth? by f0rt0r · · Score: 1

      As other poster have said, learning another language isn't just about getting a job that requires the language. In my case, for my religion I need to learn very difficult Arabic. For music I currently listen to French artists, so I am learning French using programs, web sites, chat rooms, a local French meetup group (
      http://french.meetup.com/100/events/3673883/ ) , audio ( music/other recordings ), and video, including French music videos, concerts,and television show captures. If I ever get my free satellite dish hookup installed, I will add international programming to my list of sources.

      Why do all of this? The religion part is obvious, understanding all of the lyrics of the music I listen to would be nice, plus with my desire to travel ( perhaps live! ) outside the U.S., a good grasp of the native language would be nice.

      As far as work goes, when I was in the US military I had to speak with Italian nationals on a daily basis, both when on and off-duty as I was stationed in Italy. My previous studies of Spanish and French were very useful there. I often was called upon to help fellow Americans out, from translating their complaits about their ENEL ( utilities ) bill, to the time I assisted an American(U.S.) kid who was lost in the Italian airport, and couldn't communicate with the staff.

      En sum, my point being there are many reasons to learn other languages, not just to qualify for employment.

      --
      I can't afford a sig!
    23. Re:How about a disappointment booth? by TheoMurpse · · Score: 1

      i don't know if this makes me king of dorks, but while studying in japan (right now) i had 4 girls approach me at the same time to ask if i was searching for a girlfriend...

      so fear not, my fellow nerds and geeks! there is hope!

  5. Easy by stratjakt · · Score: 1, Funny

    Make sure you instar rinux on arr the computars, kekekekekekeke

    --
    I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    1. Re:Easy by Doesn't_Comment_Code · · Score: 0

      That is hilarious. I'm trying not to smile - but I can't stop myself.

      --

      Slashdot Syndrome: the sudden, extreme urge to correct someone in order to validate one's self.
    2. Re:Easy by JoeNiner · · Score: 1

      Specifically Berry Linux, and give out the live CD's for the students to use at home, AND... Show them how to use Japanese language email.

      --
      Mod Me, Bee-yotch!!!
    3. Re:Easy by TheoMurpse · · Score: 1

      kekekeke is a korean laugh you insensitive clod!

  6. Access to Japanese Newsgroup by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Check out alt.binaries.multimedia.erotica.asian

    They can learn some special japanese there. ;-)

  7. Extreme Language Courses by LithiumX · · Score: 2, Funny

    You need to offer Extreme Language Courses.

    What you do is give them a few hours of very basic vocabulary training, then drug them and transport them to a part of the world that predominantly speaks that langauge, and only that language (ie if it's Japanese, drop them off somewhere in backwoods Japan). Give them a few yen to get started, and leave them to their own resources.

    When they show up at your door (possibly armed), a few months down the line, they will have a far greater command of the language in a short amount of time than they could ever have gotten under direct tutelage. THEN you collect your money, plus the yen you invested in them earlier.

    --
    Do not confuse "Freedom of Choice" with "Free Will".
    1. Re:Extreme Language Courses by XPisthenewNT · · Score: 1

      As an English only speaker whose been to Japan, it's amazing how far you can get with no, yes and hand gestures. To make things even easier be able to ask for the bathroom in Japanese (mimeing bathroom antics is a little gross) and of course know how to apologize profusely in Japanese for when you do offend someone or you just fail to communicate with them entirely.

    2. Re:Extreme Language Courses by Jimmy+The+Leper · · Score: 2, Funny

      I thought the next step after 'drug them' would be 'Put them on a island, each with random weapons, and tell them to kill each other off before 3 days are over'

      I guess that would only force them to respect the older generation, and not learn another language...

      --
      -You're only as clean as your towel.
    3. Re:Extreme Language Courses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't believe this got modded down and all that other garbage got modded funny...

    4. Re:Extreme Language Courses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      whose been to Japan

      "who's".

  8. Computers and education by bludstone · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Do yourself a favor. Dont waste your money on computer stuff for a LANGUAGE class. Most of the language programs out there simply wont help the kids do any better.

    I know there has been this massive rush to get computers into everything-education, but its simply not needed.

    The tech you need is a good language teacher, some dictionaries, and maybe a few textbooks/workbooks.

    Maybe a japanese->english english->japanese dictionary could be useful, but even then it could make for some seriously lazy students. But I imagine those kids already know about babelfish.

    Maybe I'm being shortsighted, but I feel that, in this specific case, computers would be more of a distraction then a benifit.

    --

    no .sig
    1. Re:Computers and education by deemzzzz_k · · Score: 1

      I completely agree. I have tried both in class and software language trainign. The lanugage software can only help in areas such spelling or testing but is not worth it.

      I have also participated in corporate training (in english) where 60% of the students were from Asia and the EU. In this case, translation software and/or website were of big help.

      When engaging in conversation, students do not have time to open up a paper dictionary and asking for definitions can be both embarrasing and disruptive. A quick online translator allows the student to keep up while making sure they're not missing anything.

      If anything, let them use automatic translators during conversation practice and maybe...maybe have some software for them to practice on after class

    2. Re:Computers and education by nkh · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Most so-called educational software suck, be it for japanese, polish, chess or cooking. A computer is a fast calculator and to me it should only be used as a very fast electronic dictionnary.

      My dream would be a japanese class where I could speak for hours (I'm serious!) with real life people. Speak and practice! that's what I miss the most because in the end, it's always some guy speaking alone (and this guy doesn't really care, he's the teacher, he has nothing to learn...)

    3. Re:Computers and education by SenorPez · · Score: 1
      I taught an ESL class for some Hispanic students for a semester, and while I had intially wanted to leverage the school's computer network for resources, I found it wasn't worth the trouble.

      Instead, the simple "use" of the language proved to be the most important part of the experience. I had the benefit that the students were immersed in an English-speaking culture, but you can take advantage of that too. During classes, instruct your students that they are not allowed to speak or write in anything but Japanese. Forbid even the use of computers as translators during class discussions. And teach them the Japanese equivalent of "I don't understand" ASAP. By eliminating the translator-crutch, you force them to build logical connections between the English that they know and the Japanese that they don't. Using a computer just teaches them that they can always look up a word they don't know.

      If you do want to provide technology, I would suggest only allowing the students to use it while doing homework assignments and projects. Those are instances of students building a vocabulary. But when it comes to using that vocabulary in conversation, technology can hinder the language development.

      Good luck!

    4. Re:Computers and education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should look into the University of Pittsburgh. Five days a week, one hour each day of Japanese-language only immersion. Two hours of lecture in English. Great emphasis on spoken fluency and acheiving spontenaity. The course books are a little dated but you'll come out with strong language skills.

      I only had two years of study, but when I was in Japan I ended up as the translator for my group of friends (except for reading signs, Pitt's program is a little weak in kanji until the fourth year, when you start reading newspapers) and received honest praise of my skills (Not just the typical "nihongo ga jouzu desu nee").

      They have summer intensive courses... ten weeks of six hours a day instruction. It's hell, but it's worth it. I found myself using and thinking in Japanese more than in English during that period of time.

      You can learn grammar from a book. But only spoken conversation can teach you proper intonation, rhythm, and the general ability to sound _natural_ when speaking. The Pitt program is a little slow; it's not until after completing the 2nd year that you will be able to have good conversations, due to vocabulary and grammar, but either you'll be a rather good speaker or else you will have failed out.

      There's a breakthrough point where one finally stops translating in their head and just starts speaking the language. For some unlucky people, that can take a long time. So yes, there's no guarentee. I barely pulled a C- my second semester. Of course, breaking through that barrier came to me from a spoken conversation. My teachers are astounded at the comeback I've made. Don't give up!

    5. Re:Computers and education by supabeast! · · Score: 1

      Agreed. If I walked into a language school and the staff started showing me all of the great computers, I'd just leave and find one that put the time and money into instructors. Having a wifi point around might be a good idea if the school have a lot of customers who will need to check email during breaks, but otherwise, having a bunch of computers around is sort of moronic.

    6. Re:Computers and education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Computers can be nice, depending on how well they're integrated with the method. The first year of Noda's method has a great interactive CD with movies of conversations, drill sessions, etc. It's nice to be able to jump right to a point in a conversation or drill instead of fast-forwarding, stopping, rewinding... but yeah, you don't need anything high-tech for that, just computers that can handle playing basic video files (Noda's uses quicktime).

      But yes, spend the money on a good method and dedicated instructors. Language instructors who are dedicated to teaching (instead of just grad students or people who need a job to keep their visa) make a phenomenal difference in their student's study: both in terms of enthusiasm / motivation and at the rate which they will learn correctly.

      At Kansai Gaidai I used the Genki method, published by Japan Times, and I have to say that it is by far the best method that I've encountered. It has an excellent progression in introducing new concepts, it explains things clearly (but not as techinically as Noda), provides much useful vocabulary focused on talking about daily life, and introduces characters right from the start. I've been going back and studying the writing aspect of the course on my own and its also very well done. It's a very modern, clean, and clear method. I simply cannot recommend it enough to you.

      But yeah, spend your money on your method and your teachers. Give your students large amounts of Japanese-only immersion, at least an hour a day. That worked extremely well at the University I went to, although it was also extremely challenging. But myself and others from the University were well received by our teachers in Japan, who were impressed with the degree of spoken fluency we had given our short duration of study (two years). Most colleges, in the poor experience of my unlucky friends, teach Japanese like any other course... some professor giving a lecture, occasionally calling out on people. If you can get a program together with tons of spoken communication you will have something that really sets you apart from most schools.

      As a comparison, the extremely successful Nova group that teaches English in Japan employs tutoring session groups of 1 to 4 students. I do not recommend going beyond 10 or 12 students. I can't say this enough: give your students lots of spoken time and they will gladly pay the cost of tuition. As I said in another post here, anybody can pick up grammar from a book: it's fluent, spontaneous conversational ability that you have to sell!

    7. Re:Computers and education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Computers can be pretty useful when it comes to pronunciation training because students are able to practice saying the different words and then be presented with the good pronunciation + phonetics.
      It's easier for both the students who can practice that at home anytime they want and work individually in class and the teacher who can focus on more important subjects (like grammar) that require more explanations.

      So, while I agree that using computers for everything in language training is a waste of money and time, it makes different tasks less tedious (for exemple,when we do listening comprehension exercises, we've often got to wait until the teacher finds the good text on the tape, which can take a loooong time ... and that wouldn't be the case with computers and sound files)

    8. Re:Computers and education by danila · · Score: 1

      This simply isn't true. You are a shortsighted and uninformed person with latent luddite tendencies. Please stop spreading FUD about computers.

      In fact, most of the Japanese I learned I learned using computers. Now, please don't misunderstand, I don't speak Japanese, but I learned a few phrases and learned Katakana.

      The most effective language learning tool I ever saw or used was an online Flash application for learning Japanese alphabet. It used a very simple approach - it taught you something, then tested you and if you did ok, your digital female anime tutor removed an item of clothing. You made a mistake, she put something back on.

      I just found the link, but it no longer works. Still, you can use Internet Archive to have a look, and may be you can trackback the site admins.

      That site was remarkably effective. It was engaging, the learning was fun, and there was some very basic stimulation of the student. A well-programmer computer can easily replace a teacher. Especially, when teaching something as simple as language. Sure, a human teacher is still needed, but a computer can handle a lot of repetition, and repetition is the mother of learning.

      I learned a lot of English using computers too, this time for real. Playing Civilization helped my vocabulary immensely. But ask an average non-native English speaker what a "granary" is and you're likely to get a blank stare in return. :)

      Computers can help a lot. I can promise that there are many effective programs (and many crap ones), but you need to test them all yourself.

      --
      Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
    9. Re:Computers and education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Go to Japan for a year or two - there is no better class than that.

    10. Re:Computers and education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree with this, a real class with real people speaking the language beats listening to a CD (or on the computer, a cd with an animated person speaking the words while you play a silly game) over and over any day.

      Though I find your assessment of "a little weak" a bit understated, by the end of my first semester (in a program that emphasised reading and writing far over speaking, much to my annoyance, and nouns over verbs to do with them) I knew (as in could correctly write, recognize alone or in context, and recall at least the most common readings) about a hundred kanji beyond just numbers, seasons, and the other easy stuff I learned from reading manga with hiragana.

      3 years later, I still can't speak Japanese, though. ;)

    11. Re:Computers and education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Incidentally, Babelfish is almost completely useless for beginning through intermediate (and to some extent, advanced) Japanese students. Babelfish works a whole lot better if you use Kanji instead of writing everything phonetically. Of course, learning to write everything in Kanji takes 9 years -- in Japan (starting as a child).

    12. Re:Computers and education by revscat · · Score: 1

      This simply isn't true. You are a shortsighted and uninformed person with latent luddite tendencies. Please stop spreading FUD about computers.

      Computers suck when it comes to teaching languages. Sorry, it's true. I happen to speak Japanese and Arabic, and I have *never* found a computer program that was worth a used butt cheek.

      The best practice for language is sitting at a desk, reading, repeating to yourself, and writing the characters over and over and over - with your hand.

      And before you label me a luddite as well, know that I'm a computer programmer with over 15 years of experience. I have no problem with technology, but computers do not help education nearly as much as they help business and entertainment.

      In fact, studies have shown that computers in the classroom *decrease* the educational experience, something I find none to difficult to believe. Humans are the best teachers, not computers.

    13. Re:Computers and education by danila · · Score: 1

      I just happen to have quite some experience in both computers and education. And let me tell you, humans are generally pathetic teachers, but they suck even more in using computers to teach others. Most of the attempts to use technology to teach that I saw in my life were appalling.

      It's not the computers that are to blame - people who don't know how to apply them are. You need a great educator who also understands computers very well to design an efficient learning experience. But the good thing is that once you do it, you can copy it at virtually no cost.

      BTW, you haven't happened to read my post before replying, have you? In no way do I mean to question your experience in learning languages with computers, but I actually described one computer program that didn't suck. I don't know whether you tried two or three programs in total, but there are more than that. Supermemo is another example of an excellent program that can be used very well in learning a language. And there are countless more, but I don't feel like persuading a person, who has already made up his mind...

      --
      Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
    14. Re:Computers and education by mizhi · · Score: 5, Informative

      I think I can speak at least somewhat authoritatively on this topic since it's at least part of my area of thesis research.

      Bottom line: You are wrong when you assert that computers can be programmed to replace competent language instructors. But, the grandparent of this post is also wrong when they claim that they are not good for classroom instruction.

      It takes some knowledge about what makes for effective foreign language learning. What it boils down to is interaction. The traditional school of thought used to be that foreign languages would be learned by studying the grammar of the language first, understanding the grammatical transformations that go on from L1 to L2. Then, drop in the appropriate vocabulary, and boom. You're bilingual! Problem is that this made people very good at translation but barely passable in communication. After this, another trend of thought was that students would learn the language with a shitload of input. Just keep hammering them with endless streams of data, and eventually the innate learning algorithms of the brain would kick in and bilingual ability would magically appear. Hence the number of hours one has to pull at language labs. Most students sleep at these labs. There are a zillion and one approaches that claim to be superior but are, more often than not, a theory for a dissertation. In alot of these cases, the "superiority" claim comes from the nature of the evaluation criteria. Like I said previously, those taugh tin the old school "learn the grammar then the vocab" school of thought were really good translators, but horrible at communication. Both of the methods above are illustrations of transmissive learning. The idea that students are just empty cannisters waiting to be filled with facts and figures and somehow, they will magically think and solve problems.

      Fast forward to today. Educators have found that the most effective methods for learning are those that allow students to be actively involved in the problem domain. Allowed to explore and discover structure and make observations on their own with little guide posts to keep them on topic, students gain a more thorough understanding of the underlying principles.

      The same is true for foreign language learning. Some of the best results come from students who are allowed and encouraged to vocally produce their own sentences (NOT simply read, write, or translate) in dialogues with other students or people fluent in the target language. Given feedback during the conversation, either implicitly or explicitly, students are allowed to explore and learn from mistakes while engaging in an activity that was, on the whole, more enjoyable than lecture or "drill-and-kill" exercises. This makes sense in light of research on language acquisition in infants which shows that social interaction is crucial for proper development of language skills. It is also anecdotally observed by all learners of a foreign language that one doesn't really learn the language to the point of communicative competency until one actually goes to a country and interacts with people in the language. (Where else will you learn that when you say "gan4", instead of "gan1" in Mandarin that it means "fuck" instead of "bottoms up?" Trust me, when I say "gan1" these days, my pitch is nice and level!)

      This sort of activity isn't really encouraged in most foreign language learning classes. Especially at the high school level. In some universities it is, but for the most part it isn't. Most universities have the model of classroom time/lab time with tapes. One of the problems is student teacher ratio. When one is teaching 30 students, it's difficult to have proper dialogues with them... most resort to having students repeat phrases or reading scripted dialogue.

      Another problem is that students might feel shy about speaking the language. No one likes to make mistakes, and among peers, this can be a particularly acute fear.

      This is where computers can fit in. Dialogue systems (in the researc

      --
      Humorless sig goes here.
    15. Re:Computers and education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > [ Go to Japan ]

      As a resident of Japan for four years and counting, I would agree strongly with the above comment. I've done college courses, intensive language schools for a couple of months (in Japan), but it wasn't until I moved here and got involved that my language skills started taking off. You'll learn to read the Kanji on the signs REAL FAST when it suddenly becomes relevant to whether you make it home or not.

    16. Re:Computers and education by janeil · · Score: 1
      I also happen to have quite some experience in both computers and education, 25+ years teaching, 25+ years programming (and general mucking about with) computers.

      Yes, humans are generally pathetic teachers, as well as generally pathetic learners, readers, writers, spellers, drivers, members of a civilized society, etc. Humans are almost all so average or below average it's scary. Though maybe I misunderstood your point, and it's only the teachers who are pathetic? Somehow failing the eager to learn, interested and intelligent natural learners they are presented with in the public school system? No, that would be an idiotic point to make, I'm sure you couldn't mean that.

      No, it's not the computers to blame. Much of the use of technology in education comes from teachers being directed (and even required) to use the computer labs a school administration has chosen to invest in. Of course these forced applications are often awkward and sometimes pointless, an inefficient use of student time. Much of the high school experience in computer labs consists of playing (some very cool) flash games.

      Computers are excellent tools for practice and repetition, yet it is striking how much of the educational software is so worthless. I am glad to hear of a program that didn't "suck." I've pretty much quit looking at the software that's out there. Of course, our district currently couldn't afford to buy anything right now anyway. But, there's no doubt in my mind that online courses could be excellent learning experiences.

      Luckily, you're completely correct in your conclusion, "You need a great educator who also understands computers very well.." What with the fabulous job conditions a teacher enjoys, as well as the solid community support, those sort of teachers are a dime a dozen!

    17. Re:Computers and education by rikai · · Score: 1

      Ughh. What's the hardest thing about learning Japanese? Kanji. Try looking up 1 character a sentence while reading and see how quickly you become "lazy". Here are some recomendations: Some version of supermemo to help them memorize/study kanji and vocab. Or Stackz, KingKanji, learnAlphabets, etc. Use a version on a PDA and they can/will study on the train, on line at the bank, etc. Get a Japanese model so it'll have handwriting recognition, and you have a character dictionary that'll beat Halpern &/or Nelson hands down. There's a thread on this at Jim Breen's site. And, lastly, for intermediate learning, get them reading news with my own rikai, or better yet, finish the moji/rikai plugin for mozilla!

    18. Re:Computers and education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All I have to say as a senior in highschool taking Japanese and Spanish, only a year of each due to moving, The number one thing that is needed is interest. With a good teacher, interested students and a little tech you will do good. Now I did not do too well in Japanese and downright horrible in Spanish because I had little interest and in Spanish a very bad series of teacher due to no one wanting the job. So get a exchange of letters going, maybe the webcam is a bit much as long as you can hear the person it seems like it would be good, cover the whole range of the language from speaking to culture, maybe get some mp3s of popular singers in the language just dont't put too much tech because reading stuff on the web is the same as reading it in the right book only a little easier to find that book. Also the games work for 1st graders.

    19. Re:Computers and education by slamb · · Score: 1
      Dont waste your money on computer stuff for a LANGUAGE class.

      I totally disagree. This is one of the best types of classes for computer-based learning. A lot of the time in languages is just memorization or applying simple algorithms over and over and over (such as conjugation in Latin-based languages). That's very tedious to do. But it's also something a computer can check easily. I've seen simple, surprisingly addictive computer games that improve your vocabulary and conjugation.

      In other words, computers can take on the tedious, repetitive jobs. They free the instructor to teach the interesting stuff, with more confidence that students have gotten the needed practice.

      They're also quite simple: no 3D acceleration needed, no Internet access needed, not a lot of hard disk space required, no fast processor. Just a decent display.

    20. Re:Computers and education by Daengbo · · Score: 1

      Let me preface this by saying that I have been a foreign language learner for most of my life, with three non-western ones under my belt. I have never studied Japanese, but I have done Mandarin, Thai, and Lao, and am now working on Korean, which shares many similarities to Japanese. I also spent a lot of time with other students who were studying Japanese (go A Co!).

      Anyway, I disagree that computers are useless in language teaching. They are good at what computers do well, being patient. Computers make great tools to learn non-latin alphabets, drilling vocabulary, and, with the right software, improving pronunciation.

      About two years ago, I put a self-learning language center together for a University, and it was quite a success.

    21. Re:Computers and education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This comment is absolutely correct and copletely autoratative. It should be posted in the body of the article.

    22. Re:Computers and education by vonFinkelstien · · Score: 1
      As an ESL teacher, I understand exactly what you are saying. However, there needs to be a balance.

      My high school students here in Sweden make the same mistakes over and over whether spoken or written. Especially when it comes to irregular verbs and persent tense verb forms (Swedish only has one present tense form for all subjects). However, when I teach adults in business English courses, I can often hear them repeating, "swim, swam, swum," like they did 20-30 years ago in school.

      I don't make my students memorize irregular verbs (maybe I should). Yet I do force them to study grammar and have lots of reading and writing assignments. I try to make all of these things as fun as possible (reading the screenplays to Simpsons episodes, for example). I also have them giving speeches, reciting poems they've written, or just talking in small groups or in pairs.

      It's all about balance. A classroom mistake that is orally corrected is not the same as making a mistake with gan1 and gan4 in public. But it is still important, as reading reading, writing, and listening.

      Now to the original question: iPods are great. I've asked our principal to consider them (at the "Rock High School" -- so they are quite appropriate). You can have all of the texts as PDF files distributed via an iMac/eMac information center. All listening exercises/material can also be distributed easily to students. Even large files like Simpsons episodes (from DVDs /tapes you have bought and the students much delete them after the term is over) can fit on an iPod Mini.

      Since I can't afford an iPod, I have to lug my iBook with me to class whenever I want to the students to listen to music (everything from cowboy songs to George Crumb, a 20th-century composer). With an iPod, I would have all my classroom music in the palm of my hand.

      Some people have been telling you that computers are not needed in the classroom. That is bull. There are lots of cool and fun 15-minute Internet research lessons that you can give your students. Whether you like it or not, the Internet has replaced the library. Most students use it as their only research tool (I'm going to try to change that by requiring some old fashioned sources for essays).

    23. Re:Computers and education by naiv · · Score: 0

      you said you dont speak japanese.... thats the point. you can learn little stuff, but conversation comes from CONVERSATION and practice. sitting down people in a circle with a person who understands how people learn and how to teach is a lot more high tech than any software. learning to write is not learning ot speak. learning to increase vocabulary is not learning to speak.

    24. Re:Computers and education by naiv · · Score: 0

      yes, balance is needed. however, computers are less important than good teaching. you can learn better with amazing teachers in a dirt floored room than with bad teachers and supercomputers all around you.

    25. Re:Computers and education by naiv · · Score: 0

      a lot of language is not memorization and algorithms. sorry. most of language is conversation. i guarantee you that a person will be better understood if they learn to speak through immersion classroom techniques (and lets say, for example, the teacher never bothered much with irregular verbs) than someone that can just spout out words and tables but not hold a conversation. i worked on spanish for a month by myself, forgot most of it, and still can speak better spanish than people who can spout out all the tables and vocab and get A's in spanish class.

    26. Re:Computers and education by slamb · · Score: 1
      i guarantee you that a person will be better understood if they learn to speak through immersion classroom techniques (and lets say, for example, the teacher never bothered much with irregular verbs) than someone that can just spout out words and tables but not hold a conversation.

      You're missing the point: this isn't an either/or. Memorization is valuable, and it takes a lot of time. It's better if that's not classroom time, and it's better if computers are used to keep it interesting. Conversations are valuable, but they take two people, which is harder to arrange outside of class. And they aren't so valuable that they eliminate the need for vocabulary practice.

    27. Re:Computers and education by danila · · Score: 1

      Good comment, but I think your experience betrays you somewhat. Learning a foreign language is not necessarily about learning to speak it. I I had to measure how much time I spend reading in, writing in, listening to and speaking in English, the proportion would probably be something like 50/25/15/10. Obviously, reading comprehension is much more important, and that's where computers are much more effective than in drilling the student to speak. That would mean that computers are already capable of teaching a good share of the curriculum.

      BTW (not bragging, just questioning the observations you're talking about with another anecdote), my personal story is that I managed to learn English very well without going to England. I can't put an arbitrary date on which I became proficient in spoken English, but when I graduated from the institute (ending my English lessons) I already had great pronunciation and was routinely asked where did I learn such a great English (after people overcame the initial shock that I was not British). I am not saying this applies to everyone, but perhaps most people just don't get good enough education that they need to visit England?

      --
      Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
    28. Re:Computers and education by danila · · Score: 1

      But what if someone writes software that tells you what to do without a teacher? What if it also includes online access to other students for collaboration? Wouldn't it work at least to some extent?

      --
      Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
    29. Re:Computers and education by inKubus · · Score: 1

      There's also something about being able to see the waveform of the thing being spoken that really helps out with the accenting. I think Sony made a system that did that, matched it up with the printed words/letters and of course played audio also. And while the audio was playing, you could record yourself speaking it, and then see both your recorded waveform and the correct waveform. It's good stuff.

      There's no substitute for practice, but computers can cram a lot in really quick.

      --
      Cool! Amazing Toys.
    30. Re:Computers and education by mizhi · · Score: 1

      It depends. Visual feedback, when done correctly can be fantastic. For example, one paper I read used the acoustic properties of speech to control a video game like racing game. I believe it was used to instruct hearing impaired children learn to pronounce sounds and words. I think they met with some modest to good success. What makes the work stand out is that it is an example of a computer simulation that is fun for the kids and attains its stated purpose using feedback that doesn't necessarily map intuitively to the acoustic signal.

      In contrast, work I've seen cited (I really ought to track down the primary materials...) as examples of "poor" feedback have involved the use of the speech signal directly. I believe the spectrogram was used; students were given an examplar bit of native speech and told to try to speak so that their spectrogram matched the native spectrogram as closely as possible. What they found is that, initially, the students liked it quite a bit. But after a while, they became extremely frustrated because they couldn't get the two to match up. There were a couple of problems, one was caused by the fact that we all have uniquely shaped vocal tracts and this results in unique speech patterns. Although they're close enough for the brain to handle the differing patterns, in visual mode, they can be quite different. Another problem is that students would have a hard time knowing how to manipulate their voices to mimic the pattern in the spectrogram. You could expect, I suspect, to see similar results with students trying to mimic a waveform.

      One caveat is that not all of this type of feedback generates poor results. I plan, for example, to explore experiments with tonal languages and you can normalize the F0 portion (the part most responsible for pitch) of the signal in certain ways that gender and speaker average F0 is removed making it easier, theoretically, for a student to match up the particular pattern with an exemplar.

      --
      Humorless sig goes here.
    31. Re:Computers and education by mizhi · · Score: 1

      Some things to keep in mind.

      One is that I was talking in generalities. Everyone has their own learning strategies that work best for them. For example, in general education, I find that I hate lecture unless the teacher provides some sort of insight into material that I can read myself. I find that I learn stuff best when I actually go about writing a program or actually applying the knowledge in doing something. In learning a foreign langauge (I've studied both German and Chinese. German unsuccessfully and Chinese with moderate success), I find that I most enjoy finding a native speaker with which I feel comfortable speaking and making mistakes. It's often hard to find that. Many native speakers will overlook mistakes or worse, laugh outright. Still, I find that this is what helps me the most, speaking with other people. Thus, I must admit that I probably have a bias towards teaching methods that focus on interaction with the material. You've had a different experience and perhaps you could shed some light on the structure of your English language classes?

      Which brings me to another point, another reason people are successful at learning a foreign language is motivation. This has been studied to death in general education and foreign language education, but it bears repeating. If a student isn't motivated to learn the material, they probably won't. If they are, they will. English, for better or worse, is the language of international business, it is also the language for the country in which you apparently now operate on a full-time basis. I suspect that, for you, there was probably a very strong motivation for learning the language. Hence, your success.

      Contrast this with someone who never plans to actually live in the foreign country or do any work in the foreign langauge they're learning. Their motivation is somewhat diminished. This is why you see many Americans not learning a foreign language successfully. Most Americans are of the mind they will never live or work outside the country, thus, the need to learn a foreign language is diminished and so is the motivation. And note, I'm an American, I'm in no way denigrating Americans. They're just factual observations.

      Bearing this in mind, consider what happens when I travel to China, Taiwan, Germany, or Austria. In China and Taiwan, people see me (not incorrectly) as an opportunity to practice their English and they do so. It can be very difficult in those situations to speak Mandarin since it feels unnatural to have a conversation in two different langauges. (Note, a strategy to fix this is to get the first word in. Once a Chinese person sees that you're at least willing to try to speak the language, they are much more willing to try to speak with you in Chinese. A danger is that they'll assume full fluency and will leave you in the proverbial dust.) German has similar problems, but my personal experience has been that fewer Germans are so eager to practice English. That's more of a culture/sociological question though.

      Let's couple this together. I have Americans trying to learn a foreign language spoken in a country they'll probably never live in and have a large portion of its population already proficient in or trying to get proficient in English. The motivation is diminished quite a bit.

      Motivation also comes into play when practicing among peers. Highly motivated peers will practice with eachother and I've noticed that they are usually quite successful in learning the language. But more often than not, students will revert to the native language outside the classroom. It also has to do with numbers. For Americans, the number of people learning any particular foreign language is quite small (except for French, Spanish, and, to a lesser extent, German). In many other countries, English is mandated from grade school on. Kids get more exposure to it at a younger age, and there is a ready pool of motivated students to practice with.

      This is a sort of similar phenomena that o

      --
      Humorless sig goes here.
    32. Re:Computers and education by mizhi · · Score: 1

      Oh definitely, there has to be balance. I didn't mean by my comment to say that one aspect of FL education should be emphasized over another (although this happens quite a bit due to time/budget constraints). It sounds like you run a really good class (speaking as someone who just reads about education and successful teaching techniques and does no teaching of his own), which is more than I can say for some of the foreign langauge courses I've taken or observed.

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      Humorless sig goes here.
    33. Re:Computers and education by mizhi · · Score: 1

      Absolutely. The key is integrating computers in such a way that they enhance the teaching already taking place. Unfortunately, I think most schools just say, "Ooooh, computer... instant Harvard admits, here we come." with little thought to just how teachers can best make use of them. When I was a kid, a computer in the classroom meant 1 computer that was used as a distraction or as a reward for good behavior.

      --
      Humorless sig goes here.
    34. Re:Computers and education by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      The same is true for foreign language learning. Some of the best results come from students who are allowed and encouraged to vocally produce their own sentences (NOT simply read, write, or translate) in dialogues with other students or people fluent in the target language.

      I believe Dr. Feynman had the right idea - get a sleeping dictionary from the country where teh language is spoken.

      It looks like most /.'s will remain monolingual, ay best...

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    35. Re:Computers and education by mizhi · · Score: 1

      Most so-called educational software suck, be it for japanese, polish, chess or cooking. A computer is a fast calculator and to me it should only be used as a very fast electronic dictionnary.

      So aircraft control software is an inappropriate use for computers?

      Computers might simply be glorified adding machines, but to say that they have or should have only one use is pretty stupid.

      Fundamentally, the human brain is nothing more than a highly parallelized computer with extensive probabalistic modeling capabilities and sensory inputs to an external reality.

      --
      Humorless sig goes here.
    36. Re:Computers and education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a language technology specialist at a moderately sized public university, I would agree with many of the comments presented by my colleagues. You do not mention if this a residential or day school. I would suggest that beyond the need for fine instruction, that you look at software that can be used beyond the classroom and which have decent records management features (see Eurotalk [http://www.eurotalk.co.uk/] and Auralog [http://www.auralog.com/] offerings). To extend the communicative act beyond the classroom, look at Wimba [http://www.horizonwimba.com/] which offers voice recording and collaboration via a web browser.

    37. Re:Computers and education by bratboy · · Score: 1
      I would be hard-pressed to count the number of language tapes and CD-ROMs I've gone through which have promised interactive environments and turned out to be complete garbage. I've also sat through language classes in which the professor spent time helping students memorize vocabulary - time which could have been used interacting, or practicing different aspects of grammar, or learning something for which we actually needed a teacher.

      This, it seems to me, is the fundamental divide - that there are some things which can only be done in an immersive environment, and some which can only be done alone. For some reason, all of the "interactive language media" tries to solve the first problem, which is (at least at the current state of the art) somewhat absurd. On the other hand, at some point a student has to sit down and put in the hard, lonely work of pounding vocab. It's not sexy. It's not glamorous. But you're kidding yourself if you think there's any other way.

      I've studied Japanese for six years, and Spanish, French, German, and Chinese for varying amounts of time. Japanese poses special problems along these lines because of the 2000 or so characters you have to learn; the average of three or four (and sometimes ten or more) different pronunciations you have to memorize for each; the multitude of compounds you have to memorize; the lack of cognates with English. A teacher can help out, but only on a retail basis - in the end you're going to have to learn them wholesale, well enough that when the moment comes, you'll be able to reach back into memory and pull the word out of deep storage (your internal hard disk). Next time you want to use it, hopefully it'll be in RAM - and eventually, after using it for a while, it'll be in your on-chip cache.

      Shameless plug: I run a website to help people learn vocabulary. I don't do the immersive stuff because, as mentioned, I think this is a losing battle. But if you want to strap yourself into a memorization machine, come on by (and if you do, don't forget to check out the Web Decoder ;).

      -daniel

    38. Re:Computers and education by naiv · · Score: 0

      haha, yes. they are just distractions. i love computers, and i believe they could help education a lot. but i think they should be taken OUT of the classroom for the most part. not because of their inherent badness, but because of the fact that most people dont know how to use them to supplement education. they use them instead of education. there needs to be a lot of work in redoing the education system before the system is mature enough to have computers actually benefit them. plus software writers need to understand education more. they make software thats basically flashcards that blink and talk back. i'm waiting for there to be good interactive programming tutorials programs. i figure it wont be until software designers make good learning software about their favorite subject that education software will start to move in the right direction. until that happens, we need to get computers out of the classroom (in most cases) and teachers in. right now most classrooms have drill masters, not teachers.

    39. Re:Computers and education by naiv · · Score: 0

      yes, it really would. but have you seen the software? my point is that there are other more important educational needs besides computers. i'm not trashing computers, i just dont think they can fix everything. and you are exactly right. we spend all this time making faster, fancier computers that can do so many things, so much faster. but little work has been done to make them work better with people. like what doug engelbart says. the real power of computers is their ability to network people together. but where is this networking? we network our computers, not ourselves. there are no permanent logs of internet sites (which is completely possible, not only does the technology exist to do it but the system had been conceived for longer than the internet has been around), we cannot work real time on projects together. we just sit sit around in forums and email eachother. we should at least be able ot by now have a network of people, all sitting together over, looking at the same document, as one person works on it, and then they can comment with them and all decide what to change as it is happening, while the one person in charge mediates all the suggestions and enacts them. or something like that. instead, we all work at our own little computers, hunched over, type up stuff, and send it to eachother when we are done. you can get a lot more collaboration when you work together on documents, rather than passing it back and forth. and perhaps it wouldnt work for all types of docuemnts (productivity wise) but we should be given the option.

    40. Re:Computers and education by mizhi · · Score: 1

      Well, one problem is that people aren't talking. Teachers are afraid of being replaced and techies think that their technology can solve all the problems created by poor pedagogy. In a FL specific context, I would be inclined to keep the computers out of the classroom since the temptation would be to use them _during_ class. It would be much better to have them in a lab environment for time spent outside the class.

      --
      Humorless sig goes here.
    41. Re:Computers and education by mizhi · · Score: 1

      Heh, thanks for the comments. Learning a foreign language is one of the hardest tasks one can take on. I can sympathize with your experience in Japanese. Chinese has a similar problem, although the memorization problem is a bit more acute.

      As to what you said about current software, yeah. Alot of them suck. But some software/systems/algorithms that were once only available in the research world are slowly making themselves out into the real world. Although none of them hits on an "immersive" environment.

      But that's why it's still a research questions. :-)

      --
      Humorless sig goes here.
    42. Re:Computers and education by naiv · · Score: 0

      i agree with that, completely. teachers are too afraid / dont know any better. techies usually know little about education. and as for lab time, it depends on course structure, its not a bad idea. thats why i think that in order to reform education, there needs to be work done outside of schools. independent groups, working at learning and teaching eachother, for no credits, no money, no institutions. just learning and growth. i think it could happen and that they could do a lot. would they ever be widespread? i dont know. and who knows if the school system would pay attention, probably not. if something doesnt want to change, i say change without it.

    43. Re:Computers and education by bratboy · · Score: 1
      There was a fascinating article about some Caltech (?) researchers putting a little speech recognition into what was probably a Half-Life mod, and coming up with a 3rd-person shooter in which you had to learn Arabic words and phrases to complete missions. I think they were being funded by the DoD.

      A point you made in a different reply was pretty interesting - that pronunciation calcifies after about a year. I'm curious - to what degree is that dependent on the intensity of study? I.e., would a person taking five classes a week reach that point faster than a person taking one or two classes at night?

      -daniel

    44. Re:Computers and education by mizhi · · Score: 1
      There was a fascinating article about some Caltech (?) researchers putting a little speech recognition into what was probably a Half-Life mod, and coming up with a 3rd-person shooter in which you had to learn Arabic words and phrases to complete missions. I think they were being funded by the DoD.


      You're referring to the TacticalLanguage project that Lewis Johnson heads up. He gave a talk and demonstrated the system at a conference in Italy the past July. The 3d engine is actually an Unreal modification. It's really quite impressive from a graphical point of view.

      One of the issues my advisor and I noted was that the dialogues and interactions were scripted. Meaning that the allowable deviation from the exact flow of dialogue was restricted quite substantially. This also necessarily means that repeating a particular lesson offers little variation. I'm not knocking it though; compared to other systems, it blows them out of the water.

      A point you made in a different reply was pretty interesting - that pronunciation calcifies after about a year. I'm curious - to what degree is that dependent on the intensity of study? I.e., would a person taking five classes a week reach that point faster than a person taking one or two classes at night?


      Unfortunately, I don't know this. I haven't seen any studies that have looked at this either. I'd be interested as well since my own research is focusing on the pronunciation aspect of foreign language learning.
      --
      Humorless sig goes here.
    45. Re:Computers and education by naiv · · Score: 0

      oh, i disagree. memorization should be done by the teacher. by that i mean, the student shouldnt realize they are memorizing new words. because a teacher should subtly introduce new words, and check if the student knows them by using them and asking for input that requires knowing what the word means. then, the teacher has to periodically do it again to make sure they havent forgotten, and to do it right after they HAVE forgotten so they are reminded. it is a very subtle, difficult technique. you need to be able to read people, understand when they absorb a word and when they dont, and have to be able to read what they are thinking. as such, most people cannot do that. the problem with vocabulary practice is best described by a situation a friend of mine (who has taught french in africa and america for a decade or 2) showed to me. he picked up the pepper shaker, and said, "le poivre". so, i connected the pepper shaker to the word poivre. if he had given me a sheet that said: the pepper, le poivre i wouldve connected the word poivre to the word pepper to my idea of pepper. which means you then have an extra connection to the word that will hamper your conversation. if you learn words by memorizing vocab lists, that is all you will be able to do. spout vocab lists. not be able to converse. yes, you can take the words you learned in vocab lists and transition them to have real life meaning and application on a subconscious level. but that takes a lot of work. that is why most people find language learning so hard, because teachers give them all that work to do and dont even tell them that they have to do it. forcing people to restructure their thoughts for words they had already restructured their thoughts to learn without telling them they had to is a very difficult little mind game. and the thing is teachers dont realize tehy are doing it. the teachers who do speakt he language (i have seen spanish teachers who dont really speak spanish) had to do this themselves. and dont realize they did it. the way to get around this block caused by your little favorite tool of lists (which is a categorization, a nice concrete absolute you can grab onto instead of dealing with the mushy uncertainties and spontanaity of real life) is for teachers to do more work. be better trained. know how to read what students are thinking, know when they are paying attention, how they are, why they are not understanding something, and what thought they have in their heads instead of the ones they are supposed to have, and ultimately how to coax the right thought into the head of the student without any effort. work is different than effort. a good artist can spend weeks and months on an intricate piece of work with little effort. not because they werent working hard, or challenging themselves, but because they were doing it, flowing it, not forcing it. even if it was expanding their perceptions and limits to do it. but you are right. we should just do things the easy way, the less efficient way, because its easier on the part of the teacher. because, after all, that is all learning is about. teachers getting money for their jobs, and not working or learning or expanding themselves. just forcing the students to learn wrong and then letting the students who care enough go through a whole mental restructuring concept by concept to get it to the point it shouldve been given to them by the teacher. it is not easy to restructure your perceptions of something, and that is what computer software for learning forces students to do if they indeed want to have the knowledge at a real life applicable level. it creates a perception of a meaning of a word, that is at least one degree further away from how it needs to be used in real life. it is like telling someone to push a button on the keyboard rather than you pushing it yourself. it is an unnecessary step that takes too long and is much harder than just pressing the button yourself. like an interpreter. people learn languages (besides for intellectual interest) becaus

    46. Re:Computers and education by naiv · · Score: 0

      when it said html formatted i didnt realizse i had to insert my breaks myself. and i have encountered this before. sorry, it makes me seem stupider than i already am! ^_^

    47. Re:Computers and education by psamty · · Score: 1

      One of the issues my advisor and I noted was that the dialogues and interactions were scripted This is partly true, but not completely. The dialogue is restricted to the script, but it doesn't have to be. There are script variants (admittedly, a lot of them have been introduced recently), but allowing the AI agents to do whatever they want might increase interactivity, but the flipside is that learners could get through without learning what we consider the 'important' skills. and BTW, its USC, not CalTech. We're good at things other than football, too!!

    48. Re:Computers and education by psamty · · Score: 1

      Damn, damn, damn. Clean formatted version below

      One of the issues my advisor and I noted was that the dialogues and interactions were scripted

      This is partly true, but not completely. The dialogue is restricted to the script, but it doesn't have to be. There are script variants (admittedly, a lot of them have been introduced recently), but allowing the AI agents to do whatever they want might increase interactivity, but the flipside is that learners could get through without learning what we consider the 'important' skills.

      and BTW, its USC, not CalTech. We're good at things other than football, too!!

    49. Re:Computers and education by mizhi · · Score: 1

      Cool, are you on the project? Trying to remember who I met from USC in Venice. I can totally understand the problems with allowing more degrees of freedom in a dialogue. One problem is as you've stated, sometimes there are things that need to be covered that might be missed in allowing more freedom. The other is how to do the evaluation. :-)

      --
      Humorless sig goes here.
  9. How i learned english by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Reader Rabbit

  10. Don't ask us by Kohath · · Score: 2, Funny

    You're going to need a lot of fancy gadgets. They should be at least 1-2 years ahead of the gadgets you can get in the US.

    Set this up as the home page.

  11. force them into using it by qwp · · Score: 2, Interesting

    set all of the computers to be their foreign langauge. So that when they go to use a computer it will always require them to use their knowlege.
    Computers are only tools, in school we have to learn how to use our mind as a usefull transparent tool By forcing the students to use their foreign language they will understand things better and quicker. ;)

  12. Minor Advice by lbmouse · · Score: 2, Funny

    Don't hire a firm with a name like "Poodle Productions" to do your website.

    1. Re:Minor Advice by Dorsai65 · · Score: 1

      Well, he DID warn people that the web site sucked. Not as bad as I'd thought it would be, though, I have to admit.

      --
      --- Asking inconvenient questions for over 30 years...
    2. Re:Minor Advice by drsquare · · Score: 1

      Warning: that site almost froze my computer with it's 'rotating-wheel' of images that doesn't actually contribute anything to the site at all.

  13. ala Austin Powers 3 by paughsw · · Score: 0

    Twwwwinnnssss!!!!

  14. Anime by EnsilZah · · Score: 1

    Could probably make it interesting by getting some anime and manga to use for study.

    I wonder what the educational value of hetai is..

    1. Re:Anime by nkh · · Score: 1

      Anime may be all right as a practice exercise (and only as an exercise!) but mangas are awfully written and most conversation end up like:

      - Oh my god!
      - Me too!
      - I'll kill you!
      - Me too!

      It brings absolutely nothing to the reader (everything comes from the pictures anyway) unless you get really good mangas (with often a lot of interesting but long texts that you won't read).

    2. Re:Anime by TheoMurpse · · Score: 1

      i am in japan right now, so i can speak from experience

      when i came, i could not read manga...

      a few months later, i have read over 30 volumes of manga and have no problems

      my professors are surprised at my rapid progression in literacy

      so, in short, manga can make you literate (grammatically and to a certain extent, kanji-speaking)

  15. VoIP to speak with live native Japanese speakers by GGardner · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Maybe you could set up Skype or other VoIP systems and find some real, native Japanese speakers to pratice with.

  16. Anime... by CODiNE · · Score: 1

    Set up a nice big TV with a DVD anime collection there. I took Japanese in HS but forgot most of it out of disuse and plain boredom. If I had access to that kind of stuff as a kid I would have been a LOT more motivated.

    I'd also layer some artwork on top of various letters and let the kids make up their own stories for them.

    ie: (That's Ku I think) drawn sort of like O and calling it a "Ku ku bird" makes the memorizing muuuch easier.

    I'd also throw in some songs... my favorite was. Heh...
    Hitori, futari, sannin INDIANS.
    Yonin, gonin, rokunin INDIANS.
    Nananin, hachinin, kiyuunin INDIANS.
    Jiyuunin INDIAN BOOOOYS.

    (Slightly non-PC) :-)
    -Don.

    --
    Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
    1. Re:Anime... by 10101001011 · · Score: 1

      "Ku" is written as a
      Google Images for pictures.

    2. Re:Anime... by 10101001011 · · Score: 1

      *sigh* Firefox seems to be handling that message with the utmost care...

      Ku is written as a "". Check google images for "Hiragana Table".

    3. Re:Anime... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      slashdot does not do anything beyond 7-bit ascii.

    4. Re:Anime... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      page encoding = ISO-8859-1
      WTF?

      Should be using UTF-8 instead.
      If all they are using is 7-bit ASCII then UTF-8 will not produce any overhead relative to ISO-8859-1,
      but it can also support any Unicode supported language (assuming you have the right fonts installed)

  17. This is BY FAR the best way to learn a language by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Last January, I was travelling through Argentina with a friend of mine who fell ill, and had to go to the hospital and go home.

    He was the guy that spoke Spanish. I knew a little, and ended up continuing on with the trip for another week and a half. And guess what - I did fine. I was get around and continue on into Chile. Not that I spoke Spanish 100% of the time; the fact that many people spoke English was very helpful. But I did learn quite a bit of Spanish, never having taken it in school.

    1. Re:This is BY FAR the best way to learn a language by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe you had such a hard time communicating because the official language of Argentina is Portugese, not Spanish.

  18. One word by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    pr0n

    1. Re:One word by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This would be the first lesson. Repeat after me: hentai, which is pronounced hen tie.

  19. English school by Viking+Coder · · Score: 4, Interesting

    How about a broadband connection to a computer in Japan where there are people in a similar age-group who are trying to learn English?

    Microphones and webcams are pretty cheap. Yahoo Instant Messenger is probably more than adequate for your communication needs.

    Have the Japanese-speaking people speak as much English as they can, and have the English-speaking people speak as much Japanese as they can.

    Nothing beats talking to a real human.

    --
    Education is the silver bullet.
    1. Re:English school by Viking+Coder · · Score: 1

      By the way, I'm in Minnesota and it's about 4:00 PM Friday here, and it's about 7:00 AM Saturday in Tokyo.

      So it might be slightly difficult to coordinate schedules for an hour of conversation - but not impossible.

      --
      Education is the silver bullet.
    2. Re:English school by NeoSkandranon · · Score: 1

      I'd think learning a language from someone who doesnt speak your native tongue would be exceedingly frustrating. How do you learn things like grammar and tenses without being able to communicate well in some language?

      --
      If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
    3. Re:English school by Fruvous · · Score: 1

      "Nothing beats talking to a real human." Except posting on slashdot. Wait.....

      --
      This is one of those witty signatures that you'll remember.
    4. Re:English school by Quobobo · · Score: 1

      I have no respect for you because you have the freeipods crap in your sig, but...

      You could always learn this from the teachers, then practice conversation with the native speakers... Seriously, how are you going to improve your skills without talking to a native speaker of another language? There's going to be a lot of times where the person you're speaking to won't understand your native language, and you'll just have to make do. The more practice you have, the better you'll be prepared for this situation.

      Besides, do you really think the students should be talking in English at a Japanese language school? Once they've learned the basics, they should be making an effort to talk in Japanese.

    5. Re:English school by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try Skype VOIP and Skype "skype me" setting along with the advanced search capability for Language= your target language

    6. Re:English school by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This will not work.

      As someone who is learning a second language at the moment (Spanish - intemediate level) I can tell you that nothing derails my Spanish like hearing English.

      You have to get to the point where the new language has meaning without any English and you can't get there via translation.

      Almost all of my teachers have been native speakers and they have worked towards *no English at all* in class. When it will help with comprehension they will occasionally explain a complicated topic in English but this is a rarity.

      The school I went to in Peru actually had signs up telling people not to speak English anywhere in the school.

      I have met many native Spanish speakers and they help me with my Spanish and I help them with their English but this does not happen at the same time.

      Perhaps the plan in the parent post could be modified to have English sessions and Japanese sessions...

    7. Re:English school by Viking+Coder · · Score: 1

      Perhaps the plan in the parent post could be modified to have English sessions and Japanese sessions...

      Sounds good.

      Half-hour in Japanese, half-hour in English. Strictly enforced on both sides. The following week, do it first in English then in Japanese.

      The point I was trying to make is that speaking with natives is absolutely the best way to immerse yourself in a language, which is the best way to learn the language. The extreme liklihood of a similar classroom existing halfway around the globe, but trying to learn English, should be taken advantage of, and it's very easy to envision a mutually-beneficial trade. And the cost is trivial.

      --
      Education is the silver bullet.
    8. Re:English school by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 1

      By reading. Lots of reading. And hey, you can pronounce stuff because you're speaking the language with your friend daily.

  20. Japan discussion listings. by Chatmag · · Score: 1

    Good luck with your project.

    You could check our Japan discussion and chat listings for some online help.

    --
    Pete Carr Owner Chatmag.com
  21. My suggestion by bonch · · Score: 1, Funny

    Robots. Tiny, round robots that brew coffee in their chests while teaching you Japanese. Get them started in on the culture early.

  22. Tech-Oriented Faculty by NotTheEgg · · Score: 1

    In order for this kind of venture to pull through, I'd suggest making sure that any faculty you hire in the future have lots of experience with the kind of technology required to keep the whole operation running. Specifically in the type of telecommunications you're talking about, because I'm sure that teaching classes via webcam would be much different than teaching in a traditional classroom. Too many things like this fail miserably due to teachers and staff that havn't the slightest clue how to use the tech given to them to it's full potential.

  23. More details, please by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 2, Insightful
    setting up a small Japanese language school

    Is that a school in Japan, or a Japanese language school in the US (or elsewhere), or a school where all the classes are taught in Japanese?
    I 'think' youre talking about a school where Japanese is taught as a second language (spoken? written?), but it's not entirely clear.
    Define 'small'. 10 students? 50, 100?

    small but not tiny budget

    Define 'small' budget. $500, $500, $50,000?

    What about online lessons via webcam?

    What kind of classes? Some types work better, some don't. Teaching Japanese might fit into the "don't" category (resolution and frame rate).

    It's not entirely clear what you are trying to teach, or what problem the 'high tech' solution is supposed to fix.

    1. Re:More details, please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're an asshole.

    2. Re:More details, please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      a small Japanese language school

      Is that a school in Japan, or a Japanese language school in the US (or elsewhere), or a school where all the classes are taught in Japanese?

      I think it's a school that teaches language to small Japanese people. :o)

      Reminds me of a line from a TV show - one guy finds a wallet - his friend asks him what was in it, and he says "OMG! Ten thousand dollar bills!"

      His friend responds "OK, is that *TEN* thousand-dollar bills, *TEN THOUSAND* dollar bills, or *TEN THOUSAND DOLLAR* bills?"
  24. Technology not always the answer by Staplerh · · Score: 1

    Sounds very interesting. I've been through a period of intensive language school before, albeit for French. In my personal experience, especially for beginners, your money would be best spent on small class-sized personal instruction. We did some technology work and it was not as effective - perhaps for an intermediate learner once the bases are covered, but I found it could really lead to problems. I did enjoy parts of the computer-based portion, but found other parts to be useless. My French accent was truly horrible, and that was partially a result of me speaking to a computer and checking my results myself - sounded fine to me, but apparently makes a native French-speaker cringe.

    That being said, there are a few things that a good language program can have:
    (1) If speaking, have an ability to hear your own voice to ensure that you have the right tone.
    (2) If speaking, make sure the teacher can hear the tone, to ensure it is correct.
    (3) If typing, make sure the computer isn't overly sensitive.

    Not sure how you type in Japanse, but it could be hard with all the various characters - I have a friend taking Japanese right now and it is effective. Spent a while reading to him from his reader book, which was fun but probably could be a good use for a computer - preparing for a test. But once again, you really need a human being to pick up on the accent if your trying to produce fluid speakers.

    Just my opinion. Good luck with your language school!

    --
    "There's no success like failure, and failure's no success at all."
    - Bob Dylan
    1. Re:Technology not always the answer by masukomi · · Score: 1

      you type japanese just like you type english, except that it's phonetic, you use roman characters which the computer converterts into the corresponding hirigana, katakana, or Kanji. They do NOT have keyboards with 3000+ keys or anything else equally insane. Typing it is damn simple. Now writing it, as in with pen and paper, that's a different matter alltogether.

    2. Re:Technology not always the answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My French accent was truly horrible

      Ooohhh, mais ça peut s'arranger ! c'est pas si difficile que ça en fait... (en plus, nous avons pleins de comic shops à Paris, Spiderman chaque semaine reçu en même temps que les américains !)

    3. Re:Technology not always the answer by Dun+Malg · · Score: 1
      Sounds very interesting. I've been through a period of intensive language school before, albeit for French. In my personal experience, especially for beginners, your money would be best spent on small class-sized personal instruction.

      I was trained as a Russian liguist by the US Army, and I strongly agree with your asessment. We had periodic language labs where we listened to boring tapes or watched low quality video tapes, but most of the time we sat in the classroom conversing with instructors. Class size started at 10 people or so and reduced to 5 or 6 through attrition. Instructors rotated to different classes every couple hours. Computers might've possibly been a better tool than the horrid casette players in the language labs, but all the real learning was done in small classes talking with real people.

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
  25. Yay for cartoons! by llvllatrix · · Score: 1

    Let them watch many japanese cartoons. I've been watching a Naruto fansub and I can already construct basic sentances...really fast way to learn a language (this also works with computer programming languages - ie lots of practical exposure).

  26. Oh sure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Everyone knows the only reason to learn any language is to make money. I'm sure they're fleecing every one of their dedicated and greedily idealistic young pupils.

    Are you insane? You opened up the door to an entire world of culture, literature, games, movies, and people, and you're saying you wasted your years? Also, I mean, come on, how much of those years did you actually spend studying japanese? About a fifth of each, right? One class out of five.

    1. Re:Oh sure by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 2, Funny

      Everyone knows the only reason to learn any language is to make money.

      Actually, there are other (and pretty stupid) reasons to learn japanese.

    2. Re:Oh sure by schmu_20mol · · Score: 1

      nice read... so it IS even better than learning french!

      --
      "Nae Kin! Nae Quin! Nae laird! Nae master! We willna be fooled again!"
  27. fond memories by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    hehe...that's pretty much how I learned Icelandic

  28. Check out the Hippo Family Club by idealord · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Check out the Hippo Family Club! No kidding... they're a radical group from Japan who learn 11-17 languages simultaneously. Their books on FFT and Quantum Mechanics are outstanding also.

    Transnational College of LEX - Hippo Family Club

    --
    idealord music
    1. Re:Check out the Hippo Family Club by kenniget · · Score: 1

      I stayed with a Hippo family during my last visit to Japan, and had the pleasure of participating in their group activities. They really seem like a great group with some intriguing and effective methods for learning foreign languages.

  29. Better yet... by GodBlessTexas · · Score: 1

    Find a school in Japane that teaches English and setup video conferencing or VoIP with them. That way they can practice their English and your students can practice their Japanese. Being able to interact with native speakers is key to learning a language and actually retaining it.

    --
    Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...
    1. Re:Better yet... by TheoMurpse · · Score: 1

      i came to japan after spending a hear and a half doing this face-to-face, and i tested higher than all but 4 other americans at my uni...

      one is a native japanese speaker (darn those nissei!), two have been studying for six-plus years (versus my two)

      the other is 16 and a genius

      in summary, face-to-face or even skype works so well, as the actual real-life conversations make or break your bilingualism!

  30. Make everything accessible via the web. by IANAAC · · Score: 1
    That means course materials, enrollment, billing, grades, everything. Seriously, the more they can do self-service via a web portal, the easier it will be on you.

    And you'll be able to do it all with OSS, if you like - PHP and Postgres or MySQL will get you most of what you need right there. Serve your study documents in someting everybody can read - PDFs of you don't want people changing things.

    1. Re:Make everything accessible via the web. by llvllatrix · · Score: 1

      I think this depends on the type of school you're trying to setup. Be advised though that if you do this, very few people will attend class (happens a lot at UWaterloo). However, that might not be a bad thing; students could be required to study on their own time and come to classes for practical experience and testing (again, depends on how you setup your school).

  31. Get Inspiration by JBoelke · · Score: 1

    I use this program to successfuly teach history. The students can use this to develope their vocububaly skills and create mind maps of Japenese culture. But no program is a cure all, no method is a cure all, and anyone who tells you that they have the one and only one solution is a liar.

    1. Re:Get Inspiration by fryingpan · · Score: 1

      I second that. I just finished a foreign language subject where we used inspiration and it somehow just works, and doesn't get in the way of learning. It was a great basis for our advanced level learning studies.

  32. The "in" language is Mandarin (ugh). by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Like you, I much prefer Japanese society over Chinese society. However, the "in" language these days is Mandarin. China is exploding in growth, and Japan is still stagnant.

    If you want to build a profitable language school, then I suggest that you build one that teaches Mandarin. Also, teach the mainland version of Mandarin. The version in Taiwan is outdated.

    By the way, please do visit the web site (for Taiwan) that I listed above. It has been updated with new information from "The New York Times". 4.3% of the Taiwanese have permanently moved to mainland China. (No. I'm not "inventing" this statistics. Just visit the web link.)

    One of the largest employers of Mandarin-language-speaking Americans is the U.S. State Department. It cannot trust Taiwanese immigrants but will trust native Americans (i.e. anyone born in the US and considering herself to be an unhyphenated American). The State Department needs Mandarin speakers to catalogue relevant information that is gleaned from Beijing's press and Taipei's press. Beijing is a foe, and Taipei is a foe pretending to be a friend.

    1. Re:The "in" language is Mandarin (ugh). by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unlike you, some of us make decisions about what we want to learn based on what we like and prefer, not based on how it will fit with world equilibrium. Also unlike you, some of us don't spend every waking hour thinking in terms of friends and enemies, and good versus evil. Do you ever think you'll grow out of this, or is it in you for life?

    2. Re:The "in" language is Mandarin (ugh). by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I, too, prefer Japanese society. How can anything Beijing has done compare with the Nanking massacre or the biological experiments of Unit 731? Don't forget the "comfort women" while you're at it.

    3. Re:The "in" language is Mandarin (ugh). by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      equivalent of Nanjing massacre = 228 Massacre (February 28, 1947)

      The 228 Massacre was a rampage in Taiwan by Chinese soldiers, arbitrarily shooting, raping, castrating, and decapitating the natives of Taiwan. 30,000 people died.

    4. Re:The "in" language is Mandarin (ugh). by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was by the freedom and democracy loving Chinese nationalists, though. As they were our allies it doesn't count.

    5. Re:The "in" language is Mandarin (ugh). by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Crap. Now I'm going to have to learn something else. What isn't "in" these days? Farsi, maybe?

  33. I thought that Moogles were only in Final Fantasy? by advance512 · · Score: 1

    DAMN! Better go capture myself a Chocobo.

  34. Blessing and curse... by downward+dog · · Score: 1

    I've found that online discussion forums can help to supplement (but not replace) in-class education. Some people learn better when they are allowed to read, think, and write at their own pace. This could be especially useful in a language class -- just tell the students to talk about movies or sports or politics in the discussion forum.

    On the other hand, if students use laptops during class, I'd be wary of offering free WiFi. The internet is great for a lot of things - but it is also a remarkable time-waster and distraction. (And I'm Exhibit A: reading Slashdot at work.)

  35. Older technology by Telastyn · · Score: 1

    Don't forget simple things like TV's and overhead projectors. Many of the language instruction stuff I've seen is still on VHS/DVD/CD, not computers.

  36. So to learn Japanese... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... you suggest Leadel Labbit?

  37. Movies.... by Fallen+Kell · · Score: 1
    Well, here is one thing that might have been not thought of. I am making the assumption that "Japanese language school", means you are teaching the Japanese language to people who speak English.

    If that is the case, have you thought about getting some movies in which are in Japanese. I don't know your class demographics, but many may enjoy Japanese Anime, or classical Japanese theater, or the many, many other Japanese movies that are out there. I have had four friends learn Japanese so they could better understand anime (no joke, most are very poorly translated, only the major films do a half decent job, but still lose a LOT of the context as well as censoring for cultural differences).

    --
    We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
    1. Re:Movies.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Japanese dubbed versions of popular English-spoken
      movies might also be useful.

  38. k12ltsp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your best bang for your buck is the k12 Linux Terminal Server Project at http://www.k12ltsp.org.

    Full educational application range with only a need for one well equiped server (less than $3k) and you can plug in 486's without harddrives that will run as if they are brand new dell workstations.

  39. What is the technology for? by lakeland · · Score: 1

    One of the most effective uses I've seen of technology in similar situations is marketing. If people see flash webcams and the like, they may well be tempted to come even though you are making very little use of them in teaching. From this perspective, you should be looking for technology that has a real 'wow' factor about it. For instance, 'free' ipods with lessons and the like.

    An alternative goal is technology that actually helps with education. There's plenty in this regard to. For instance, my lab is developing a talking head where you can chat in the language being learned. Mistakes are automatically detected and personal profiles are developed. The system starts with a lesson plan and develops dialogues around it. This is for a fairly obscure language (Maori) and I would expect major languages to already have such tools out of the research labs.

    But my point is that if you're looking for the technologies that are useful, then you need to start with a clear goal (improve pronunciation, improve grammar, improve lexicon, ...) and from there software and hardware will naturally follow. However, if your goal is marketing then you'll end up with a totally different set of solutions.

  40. Moogle? by The+Andersor · · Score: 2, Informative


    Has anyone used Moogle?

    Don't you mean Moodle, the online educational tool similar to Blackboard or WebCT? Moodle can be a great tool to assist the classroom experience; we're testing it out in my department and will hopefully deploy it throughout our private prep school for the next academic year.

  41. Make Absolutely Sure by jstrain · · Score: 0

    to lock down all your bases. You don't want them being belonged to them.

  42. foreign lang lab by kraj321 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Besides computers(hardware) you need to be looking into software as well to help students learn the language/s with the help of current technology. I have been trying to emulate, "state of the art" lab over @ Rice University, Houston, TX. Link : http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~lrc/index_flash.html

  43. Past Experience by IAmTheDave · · Score: 3, Informative

    I worked for the largest language school in the world for 5 years, during which we rolled out a series of e-learning applications. I can tell you the following things:

    1) Technology should be used to supplement langauge lessons - never teach them. Distance learning can be done via webcam if absolutely necessary, and you can take advantage of existing technologies for that. Look into Placeware or more likely WebEx.

    2) You can license existing e-learning platforms from companies like Auralog, they sell on a sliding scale.

    3) Students love to be able to see schedules and homework assignments online. Computer software applications also make great supplements for at-home practice. Also consider setting up a community bulletin board for students to communicate with eachother in their non-native tongue.

    I know none of this is revolutionary thinking - but it is sage advice for teaching language with technology. My company tried to teach through technology alone and it failed - the lesson learned was even eLearning needed to be a supplement - not the basis for learning.

    Best Luck!

    --
    Excuse my speling.
    Making The Bar Project
    1. Re:Past Experience by danila · · Score: 1

      My company tried to teach through technology alone and it failed - the lesson learned was even eLearning needed to be a supplement - not the basis for learning.

      How true. My company tried to build a heavier-than-air vehicle to fly and failed - the lesson learned was that you need to make it lighter-than-air - not heavier.

      Seriously, if you failed, that most likely means that either a) you suck or b) the task is hard. Rarely the reason is that c) it's impossible.

      I wrote elsewhere in this discussion with my experience learning Katakana - a computer could do it much better than any human teacher. And the marginal cost of using that software was zero.

      You can teach with computers, you just need to be creative and not afraid of challenges. Of course, you also need to have excellent teachers. No, strike out "excellent", you need outstanding, totally breathtaking teachers, geniuses in their field. With just good you are bound to fail.

      --
      Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
    2. Re:Past Experience by kamileon · · Score: 1

      Speaking as someone with a few semesters of Japanese under my belt, learning hiragana/katakana, and learning Japanese, are two very different problem sets. Otherwise everyone could learn n~ and e' and then they'd know Spanish.

      A computer is a very useful tool for drilling and repetitive tasks, such as practicing hiragana, or kanji. But it's not a good substitute for real, live, unpredictable conversation, in the same way that playing the Sims is not a good learning substitute for interacting with real human beings.

      Learning a language requires knowledge of vocabulary and grammar, but it also requires a live human being to giggle and tell you that while, yes, the two words you used together mean "egg" and "leather", they're also slang for female genitalia. There is no substitute for real people.

      However, computers can be used to access real people, as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, via web cams, instant messaging, Japanese email pen pals (there's an exchange program for these at mylanguageexchange.com, among many other places online.) I found swapping emails with my teacher and IM with Japanese speaking friends incredibly helpful for learning idiomatic Japanese.

      --
      To truly understand recursion, you must first truly understand recursion.
    3. Re:Past Experience by danila · · Score: 1

      learning hiragana/katakana, and learning Japanese, are two very different problem sets
      I don't think this is important. Yes, the tasks are different, but I was talking about the teaching methodology, not the content. From my personal experience I can conclude that an automated computer teacher with an avatar of an attractive anime girl can be en effective mentor.

      A computer is a very useful tool for drilling and repetitive tasks, such as practicing hiragana, or kanji. But it's not a good substitute for real, live, unpredictable conversation
      Drilling and repetitive tasks constitute most of the language learning. Not that I don't imply boredom and sheer memorization. No matter how interesting, engaging and creative the lessons (and homework) are, a good deal of them consists of simple repetitive tasks. I'd venture to say about half of them does. And while you would need a human mentor for the rest of the experience, a computer can be extremely effective at what it does. Furthermore, don't forget that many tasks which are currently best performed by a teacher can probably already be computerized quite well, often in the context of game/online experiences.

      --
      Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
    4. Re:Past Experience by IAmTheDave · · Score: 1

      Drilling and repetitive tasks constitute most of the language learning.

      Not to start a flame war here, but in fact, this is wrong. The most commonly used language learning method in the world, called the Direct Method - or more correctly, the Berlitz Method - is also the most commonly copied language teaching method in the world. Although not often employed by high schools and colleges, some of the biggest name language schools in the world use this method. These include Wall Street, Berlitz, etc.

      So standard drilling and repetition does not, in fact, constitute most language learning. And any serious language school will tell you that.

      --
      Excuse my speling.
      Making The Bar Project
    5. Re:Past Experience by danila · · Score: 1

      I was probably not very precise in expressing my point (being a non-native English speaker, or just not paying enough attention to communicating clearly). I meant that most of the language learning, even when done in some of the biggest name language schools, would seem to a computer as repetitive enough that it can handle it.

      For example, the testing, various exercises, basically everything that is being done with the exercise books can be done with computers, often better. And, more importantly, the computers can replace a teacher for monitoring, motivating and providing feedback in such simple (to a computer) learning tasks.

      --
      Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
  44. You could use some English cartoons too. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1) "Sentances" should be "sentences."
    2) "Really fast way to learn a language" is a sentence fragment.
    3) "(this also works with computer programming languages)" should be outside parentheses, and capitalized, as it is a complete sentence.
    4) "ie" is an abbreviation, spelled "i.e."
    5) "Lots of practical exposure" is a sentence fragment.

  45. Bodes ill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you're soliciting Slashdot for ways to spend this small budget you've acquired you're approaching things ass-backwards. Dreaming up ways to spend your money on technological gimmicks is asinine when you haven't even tested a business model or recruited any students. The fact that the money in question is your capital is all the more worrying. You really have nothing better to spend it on, that you have to solicit ideas from here - ideas which you will not even bother to frame within reasonable requirements? If that's the case, your business is fucked from the get-go, because you obviously haven't clue one. My earnest recommendation as to what to invest your money in is a college fund for your kids; and if you don't have kids, make some. It's your only chance for success in the long term as far as I can see.

  46. How's this for a "rest of the story"? by greenmars · · Score: 3, Interesting

    When I moved to the Big City after graduation, and I started sending my resume to places looking for Japanese language proficiency, I got a call from a lady who worked for a Japanese airline's local office. She asked if she could take me out to lunch. I was suprised and happy. Then she spent the entire hour telling me why I should look for some other kind of job because of how badly the Japanese bosses were going to treat me and how almost no American could take it. Then she paid for the lunch and left. I took her advice and got into the computer biz with no looking back. Still, I do think about all that time and energy I spent learning Japanese, living in Japan for a year, and I wonder if I could have spent it taking classes that would have been more useful for my present life.

    1. Re:How's this for a "rest of the story"? by Fragglebabe · · Score: 1

      I understand what you mean, I've just realised that I want to be a journalist, when i'm already halfway through studying a chemistry degree. It seems slightly pointless to continue, but i've decided that any degree is a good degree and it will help me to get a job in journalism. I strongly believe that you shouldn't have regrets about the past just as long as you had fun along the way. Just because your goals now are different to your goals back then doesn't mean that you wasted your time. As for me, I'll be happy when i can sit back of an evening and read one of my stories on the front page of a national newspaper.

      --
      Insane people are always sure they are fine. It is only the sane people who are willing to admit that they are crazy.
    2. Re:How's this for a "rest of the story"? by daveashcroft · · Score: 1

      Keep going with the chemistry. A chemistry degree could be your step into journalism as a science correspondant etc....and once your foot is in the door, the world is your oyster.

      And besides, its proof you can do something academic and relatively abstract....not like some shitty history of art degree thats about as much use as a kick in the balls.

    3. Re:How's this for a "rest of the story"? by Fragglebabe · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that's good advice, and it's pretty much what i'd planned to do anyway. I've decided that as long as I get enough experience in journalism (I'm a writer for my student newpaper) then nothing can stop me.

      --
      Insane people are always sure they are fine. It is only the sane people who are willing to admit that they are crazy.
  47. software for foreign lang lab by kraj321 · · Score: 1

    Try the "TELL ME MORE" software by Auralog for foreign languages. I am aware thy offer ESL, french, SPanish, German, Arabic.

  48. Two words by SiW · · Score: 1

    Streaming hentai

  49. Nothing beats the low-tech approach by OblongPlatypus · · Score: 1

    Having just the past four months learning a new language (six weeks of intensive Spanish course, then normal computer engineering college studies, all in Spain), I honestly can't think of anything that would beat the low-tech approach with small groups, many teachers, and lots of plain old-fashioned *speaking*. Of course some of this might not translate perfectly to a language like Japanese where the normal western student will have very few "hooks" in the form of similarities to their native language, but I don't see how these differences could mean there would be any *less* of a need for actual human communication in every part of the learning experience.

    Really, if you have a tech budget, consider spending it on some basic internet-enabled terminals for your students to use in the breaks. The language schools I've seen are sorely underequipped in this area, leading to everyone spending their breaks queuing up just to get a chance to check their email for two minutes.

    --
    -- If no truths are spoken then no lies can hide --
    1. Re:Nothing beats the low-tech approach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The best language software can offer right now is the opportunity for beginners to learn through memory repetition and recalling words. At higher levels of language education, the only use a computer would really be is to download articles off the internet.

      But really, you could be spending the money that software and computers cost on something more worthwhile, like developing useful lessons by hand...for 10 cents a copy.

      Having graduated from the Defense Language Institute, I can say that spending about 8 hours a day in class with native teachers is the best way to learn -- in less than a year you can be fairly proficient in any language that way.

  50. How about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    not having the school. We need to divert all funding to the Iraq effort. We don't have the time nor money for pesky operations like "education"

  51. Re:I thought that Moogles were only in Final Fanta by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Try http://moodle.yeovil.ac.uk/ as an example of a moodle.

    It's a wacked-out name, probably invented by crazy koreans, but I guess it's what he was on about.

  52. Gaijin lessons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Teach them what the Japs think of foreign subhumans

  53. any good stuff on DVD? by peter303 · · Score: 1

    I'd presume that short video and audio clips would help teach language. That would make a more vivid impression than audio alone. I figured I learned a fair amount of English from TV as an infant (though not as fast as the Splash mermaid).

  54. Have students use iPods by mhollis · · Score: 1

    The New York Times had a recent article about how one foreign language department was using Apple's music player to record and play back language lab materials. I have found a grant proposal while looking for a link to the article. The Times article suggested the use of iPod voice recorders as well.

    Of course you are looking for specific technology and technologies, as opposed to curriculum and methodologies but I have a dear friend who teaches the more advanced courses using a mix of history and the country's literature. I found his methods very good.

    --
    Gods don't kill people, people with gods kill people.
  55. Suggestion. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You could try simple games like Slime Forest. Students who use it should probably know their Hiragana and Katakana first, though.

    Some form of Jeopardy is also always a good learning format for me. And use candy for prizes because they have too much and it needs to be disposed of. Ganbatte kudasai.

    -Anonimasu Kawaadu

  56. Just got back from Japan in July by toreupfeet · · Score: 2, Informative

    I spent a year at Waseda, and I studied Japanese for 4 years at a university prior to my year abroad. One thing is vital: watch movies in class. You should have students study text for only a year or two, but from there, go straight to media. By watching drama, you get to watch, listen, and read simultaneously (because they display captions on the screen). For Japanese, culture is just a part of the language as the vocabulary and grammar. So, when the students have grasped the fundamentals of Japanese, throw them in front of the screen. It's the closest they can get to being in Japan without going...and it will give them a glimpse of what they're in for if they go. This is important because westerners have NO idea what it's like to live alongside the Japanese. None. --My third-year professor would type out the scripts and we would go over about 20-second intervals of the film at a time. Great class. And let's not turn this into a Japan-bashing post everyone. I mean, hey, I'd love to leash out a little myself, but this isn't the place. This guy obviously wants to improve western relations with Japan. I say more power to him. http://www.forum.japantoday.com There you go. Bash away on their forum.

    1. Re:Just got back from Japan in July by maskedbishounen · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Quite true. This is often the fault more knowledgeable fans have with nowaday's commercially translated Japanese media -- the localization of important cultural aspects.

      I've been self-studying Japanese for a few years now, and I still learn new cultural tidbits on a near daily basis.

      I don't mean that watching anime is the key, mind you; I'm sure others will try to suggest that. But live action and dramas work wonders on both the cultural aspect, and introduce the viewer to the vastly different landscape of Japan. :)

      --
      "An infinite number of monkeys typing into GNU emacs would never make a good program."
  57. You assume they want gaijin to fit in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Why the hell would you make that assumption? Japanese society can be about the most racist on earth.

    But since they're not caucasian, we give them a pass.

    1. Re:You assume they want gaijin to fit in by toreupfeet · · Score: 1

      Agreed. Ever heard of http://forum.japantoday.com? Highly recommended.

  58. Tora Tora Tora, Child Porn and Nanking Massacre by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At least give them an honest view of Japanese morals

  59. Moogles! by Geoffreyerffoeg · · Score: 1

    Has anyone used Moogle?

    Kupo!

  60. Don't use common stuff! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Try to use the latest stuff from research: augmented paper (paper++), interactive everyday objects, visualisation techniques, etc.

    But as important as technology: use the latest from learning research: don't assume they know how to learn stuff. Talk about speed reading, to get enough sleep, etc. etc. Maybe combine this with technology to help them in their individual learning phases. Maybe get them a pda which surveils their learning results, and gives the students feedback on how to alter their learning techniques, right during their learning sessions.

  61. No need for fancy gadgets by ChibiOne · · Score: 1
    To learn Japanese, you need books, a good teacher and a link to Japanese culture. No need for worthless software, PDAs, all that fancy stuff. Just have Japanese enabled computers connected to the Internet and a list of core links (read: Japanese news sites and such).

    Your main concern would be to promote the cultural aspects of learning the language: arrange for some kind of e-mail exchange program with Japanese speakers, have som native guests once in a while come to the school, organize Bunka no Hi events (Culture Day)...

    Oh, I like the idea of having a common media room for DVD movies and such... but don't restrain yourself to anime. Instead, show some live action movies (and I don't mean anime based live action!), "real" movies.

  62. Discipline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How about a robot who snap your hands with a ruler when you don't look to the front?

  63. Broadcast classes using Shoutcast by idgrad · · Score: 1

    I've tried this out a bit here, beaming lectures to friends unable to attend classes (ie. still in their PJ's on a monday morning). It works remarkably well, and most importantly is free. The downside is that a few (16+) students connecting to one shoutcast server can start to hit the old bandwidth meter pretty hard.
    Good luck,
    Id

    --
    "If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research, now would it?' -Albert Einstein-
  64. Suicide? by Nine+Tenths+of+The+W · · Score: 1

    Making the worst students ritually disembowel themselves could be a powerful motivational aid

    --
    Slashdot: News for Nerds, Stuff that matters only to them
  65. No Brainer, you need to check out... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Rosetta Stone. www.rosettastone.com, they have online delivery or CD-ROM. Their product will likely serve you perfectly.

    1. Re:No Brainer, you need to check out... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i disagree. useless crap. it's faux immersion and inneficient.

  66. Buy them headsets and counterstrike. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Make them play on english servers. Afterwards they'll be able to say I pwned u and you hacker with the greatest of ease.

  67. Not PDAs, iPods! by OECD · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Seriously, some schools are using iPods.

    Aside from the standard "My pencil is yellow" fare, you cold load them up with popular Japanese songs (and traditional ones.) Mini-immersion, if you will.

    The iPods even have some PDA functionality, so you get that, too.

    PLUS, for c. $250 per pupil, you can add some serious 'polish' to people's perception of your school. "You get an iPod? To keep?" You'll be amazed at what that does to their willingness to fork over the big dollars! (There's almost certainly a discount for schools, too.)

    Heck, set up a 'podcast' exchange with a Japanese english school. (Podcasts are recordings meant to be downloaded for later listening in the iPod.) Have the Japanese students do three minutes of dialog in Japanese, and in exchange the Yanks do three minutes in American.

    OR, distribute lessons in podcast format, and charge people for distance-learning! (OR, distribute them for free and charge for the testing!)

    Good Luck!

    --
    One man's -1 Flamebait is another man's +5 Funny.
    1. Re:Not PDAs, iPods! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That has to be one of the most stupid posts I have read in a long time.

    2. Re:Not PDAs, iPods! by virgil_attack · · Score: 1

      and in exchange the Yanks do three minutes in American.

      I wasn't aware that "American" was a language.

    3. Re:Not PDAs, iPods! by ShawnDoc · · Score: 1

      I hate the term "podcast". Just call it what it is, MP3! There's nothing special about it that makes it any more or less suitable for playback on the iPod. It's just a MP3 designed to be listened to later.

    4. Re:Not PDAs, iPods! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would definately say that American English is different enough from other dialects that it deserves the term. Kind of like Egyptian vs. say Lebanese, when really it's all Arabic.

    5. Re:Not PDAs, iPods! by Quobobo · · Score: 1

      Let me be the first to say that I wouldn't go near any language school who did this. They're expensive already, I don't need to add an unneeded MP3 player to that.

    6. Re:Not PDAs, iPods! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you people mod up anything that has to do with Apple and iPod? Seriously, what an enormous waste of money this would be. It would only be effective for a small sbu-set of people because a lot of people don't learn well without interaction. Maybe make MP3s available so that they can do this on their computer and any portable MP3 devices (your post stinks of product favortism, would you have been modded up if you were saying, for example, them use a MS Mp3 player). The thing would be more of a distraction for people who forget them, or just download non-learning realted garbage on them. Man, this post stinks so bad, I am surprised there aren't links to a website for people to get an iPod so you can get one for free! :P

    7. Re:Not PDAs, iPods! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I wasn't aware that "American" was a language.

      Well, they certainly don't speak English, so what would you call the US language? I don't think that most USians speak Spanish. Yet.

    8. Re:Not PDAs, iPods! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow you must be retarded.

    9. Re:Not PDAs, iPods! by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      Don't you mean Engrish?

      I'll probably get modded down for this.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
  68. Minority Languages by Ranger · · Score: 1

    With the right technology and connections learners of minority languages can help each other learn and maintain their skills when no one else is available.

    --
    "You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
  69. Kanji Alive by MjrTom · · Score: 1
    Take a look at Kanji Alive at the University of Chicago. It's called "a web-based teaching aid to help students learn to write, read and memorize kanji in their own time, outside of the classroom" by the guys who wrote it. It shows the user the proper way to draw kanji (order of strokes), and also has demonstrations of how to pronounce words by native speakers. You can't learn japanese with this alone, but it is a good tool for getting a little practice in.

    http://kanjialive.lib.uchicago.edu/

  70. spoken archive by ikeleib · · Score: 1

    Use the computers to store speach by native speakers from various places. There is a trememdous variation in English accents and dialects across the world. One avenue could be audible books. Another could be a database of particular words spoken in a sentence by various speakers.

    I think the ability to archive, search, and playback are the computer's best qualities for language instruction.

  71. Hightech? by Mumpsman · · Score: 0

    Obviously you will need to deliver Pocky via pneumatic tubes.

    --
    No battles to the death are recalled. Mumpsman can hit to attack and cause brainsmashing.
  72. Alternative use for a webcam... by frankiejr · · Score: 1

    You might want to think about getting a few really good webcams, or possibly even one cheap video camera for each classroom. Tie each to a cheap system with a low-end capture card. Then, make each class available for download so students could review the daily lessons.

    You could control bandwidth by limiting downloads for only one week after the class, then offering older classes burned to disc. Current codecs can allow a pretty long file with good video quality to fit onto a CD.

    Just an idea. This might help people with shorter-than-normal attention spans. You just have to make sure it doesn't get abused by class-skippers or the unenrolled.

  73. What you say!! by temojen · · Score: 1

    move 'zig'
    for great justice.

  74. Japanese? by sakusha · · Score: 1

    Unfortunately, Japanese is about the slowest language to adopt computer based education. It is an "infrequently taught language" and thus, there's not a lot of budget behind development. Also, Japanese are notorious technophobes. Yeah, it makes no sense, but it's true in some areas, especially areas with long tradition like education, so computer J Lang training is extremely poorly developed. Believe me, I know from experience. Computer tools work better at higher levels, when students already have a fairly good level of language self-sufficiency, and just need more access to native language materials, like online texts, or streaming web newscasts, etc.

    Let me just put the kibosh on one bad idea. Skip the web training via webcams. Most web conference software uses significant compression, reducing frequency response in the audio. Unfortunately, this makes it extremely difficult to discern the difference between high freq consonant sounds like chi/ji. So if you use low quality web conferencing, you'll be doing your students no favor, giving them a poor audio sample to emulate.

    The most successful Japanese teaching programs focus on live interaction with native speakers. If you're spending big money on technology, you're wasting money you should have spent on native speakers as teachers. Language is a tool for communication between humans, not computers.

    1. Re:Japanese? by toreupfeet · · Score: 1

      I agree. Employ some nihonjin and break off into discussion groups...or watch drama. That's the only way to learn the spoken language.

    2. Re:Japanese? by sakusha · · Score: 1

      well... dorama has a lot of culture-specific things that aren't necessarily comprehensible to beginners. But at least it's better than anime, with its exaggerated voices and weird vocabulary.
      I personally recommend news shows. The announcers are chosen for clarity of voice, the news scenarios are generally familiar to Americans (crime, economics, sports, etc.), and there are a lot of interviews with people at all levels of speech and many different dialects, oftentimes the interviews are subtitled in kanji. News is also available online via streaming, sometimes with written transcripts too, but the streaming suffers from the same lack of clarity that I complained about when dissing web conference tools. Better if you can get news live via satellite, like I do.

      Anyway, I shouldn't completely dismiss technology as irrelevant to language learning. But the tools I think are most valuable are the very tools you're least likely to get official support for, since they'd violate copyrights. Mp3s, CDs, and PDFs are my favorite tools. Textbooks usually come with audio tapes for practicing dialogs, modern ones come with CDs, you could easily rip them to mp3s. This would have made my life a lot easier back when I was a student, I was always rewinding cassette tapes to re-listen to passages over and over. This would be a lot easier with mp3s, just move the playback head a few seconds to the left, and listen to it again. I also liked to scan my books into PDFs for convenient portability, but of course this is also a copyright problem. And personally I prefer paper textbooks, so I can scribble notes and put in furigana when I need it. So it's more useful for reference material. Sure you can use all these methods to distribute CONVENTIONAL learning materials, but so far I haven't seen any new ways to use these new media in any way that is significantly better than the old media (well, except for the mp3 instant access rewind thing).

  75. Just say NO to webcams. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've had two classes through webcams. Fortunately I also had the option to physically go to class. From my personal experience, it is much easier to learn in the class room. You can ask the teacher questions without having to instant message or email later. And you can easily get distracted watching the class on a computer. A few minutes after you get bored, you will find yourself looking at google or playing solitaire. Then a few minutes turns into 20 minutes turns into an hour, etc. Of course, this is just my experience. I'm sure it works fine for some people.

  76. PADict by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When I learned Japanese, I had a HUGE technological advantage over the rest of my class because of PADict (http://padict.sourceforge.net/v0.3.2/index.html). It's a JP-EN dictionary that runs on Palm; the great thing about it is that (in addition to standard dictionary lookup) it looks up and teaches Kanji! Grab a few old, used greyscale Palms or Sony Clie's off eBay (make sure they have enough memory) and let students share them.

    Oh, and don't forget to force Anime down their throats at every chance. Aside from the fact that I expect every Japanese girl to have red or blue hair and end her sentences with "-nya", I'm sure it's very accurate to Japanese culture, what with the giant robots running around and all.

  77. PDA Dictionaries by mclove · · Score: 1

    Take a look at PADict - open-source Palm OS Japanese dictionary with built-in Japanese fonts and handwriting recognizer.

    (shameless plug) My company, Pleco Software makes a similar product for Chinese, and we've found that for a lot of people ready access to a character dictionary can greatly assist with their studies and their later word recall.

  78. An ACTUAL answer by anocelot · · Score: 1

    Well, it seems you are getting lots of answers from people who think it's funny to laugh at you/your idea. It's usually a good idea to ignore them, but I'd sure like the [+1 moron] option some times. These are the same people posting in support of cheats in MMORPG a few hours ago. ;)

    I actually speak a bit of Japanese ( Hajimemashite! ) and I work in the distance learning center of a community college in the SF bay area. I've got some ideas that might ACTUALLY be helpful for you.

    Online Courses:
    WebCT has pretty good support for foreign language, and we have some courses for both Chinese and Vietnamese. I know of at least one college using WebCT for beginning Japanese with fairly high success rates (in terms of retention at census and articulation). I've heard that MOODLE works alright, but if you want an open source solution, wait a few months and look for Sakai. It's a joint venture between quite a few schools that have a vested interest in online courses. At the moment, I do not have any information on whether sakai will support unicode characters, but if I *had* to guess, I would say it's likely.

    Language Exchange Bonuses:
    Try to get your students involoved with one of the chat groups that are Japanese/English chats. These are groups which are designed for English speakers who are learning Japanese and Japanese persons learning English. The idea is to trade off what your learning. Strictly speaking, you will not get much auditory bennifet out of this, but you WILL get the grammar and "conversation flow" practice.

    Let me know if you want more suggestions, etc. I'd be happy to give more examples/ideas. HIH

    --
    This tagline brought to you by 1500 monkeys in just under 17 years.
  79. Classrooms of the future by tootlemonde · · Score: 1

    Has anyone used Moogle?

    That would be Moodle. The section on Moodle for Language Teaching has some interesting ideas and shows it is widely used for this purpose.

    An essay on using Moodle has this comment:

    The e-mail and archiving system in Moodle is one of its greatest features. Students post their messages on the Moodle web page, but the messages are sent out to all subscribers as regular e-mail after a teacher-determined delay, of say, 15 or 30 minutes. This gives the writer a chance to review the message and revise it if necessary

    All messages appear with a tiny mugshot of the sender, with a smiley face for those who haven't uploaded a digital version of themselves yet. This small feature goes a long way towards building 'community' since it allows students to place a face with a name.

    The fact that Moodle has given some thought to email as an education tool is probably an indicator of the thought that has gone into other components.

  80. I am in a good Japanese class and... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    one thing that has really helped is that the teacher has a high quality digital video camera which he uses to tape our oral assignments. Then when we listen to our conversations we pick up on our OWN flaws and consequently learn not to do that. There is no better learning that figuring what you did wrong ON YOUR OWN, because then we have to have done research of some form. One final comment, do not forget about teaching the culture. Bright students will begin to see the massive connection between the language and the culture, and learn connections and patterns that will make whatever follows easier.

  81. Even better! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Locate your school in Fukuoko, Japan, where you're surrounded by Japanese speakers. Oh, wait, you already did that.

  82. Class idea. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Make a class on 1337 speak.

  83. Environment.. by JustNiz · · Score: 1

    Get the work environment right before buying toys.

    A comfortable environment is critical to facilitate learning and working effectively, and is usually overlooked, especially in the USA for some reason. Focus on issues like lighting, furniture, decor, etc.

    Many studies have proved that neon strip lighting (as still used in most offices and commercial places) is absolutely terrible for productivity/concentration and should be replaced at all costs. Natural light is best but incandescent bulb lighting should be used otherwise.

    Furniture and workspace should be comfortable and informal. Think out of the box. Use padded chairs, have a sofa area etc. rather than a conventional classroom with stackable plastic chairs.

    Decor: non-distracting, pleasing pastel colours only. Also place plenty of real plants around.

  84. Free POP3 Accounts for the Students by Dasch · · Score: 2

    Oh, and the PC's at the school should be filled with open source software! I'm talking Linux, OpenOffice.org, Mozilla Firefox & Thunderbird etc. etc.

  85. ipods for the language by ktlyst · · Score: 1

    labs.

  86. I think he meant www.Moodle.com by viva_fourier · · Score: 1

    At the risk of being redundenter again:
    http://www.moodle.com/

    --
    and now back to the fallout shelter...
  87. I wish I could go to such a school, if they teach by ringer9cs · · Score: 1

    Haskell!

  88. Multimedia and reference materials by baka_boy · · Score: 1

    I went to a Japanese immersion high school, and we used our technology resources for two major things: multimedia production, and access to reference materials such as encyclopedias, Japanese/English dictionaries, etc.

    Skills like desktop publishing, A/V creation and editing, and programming were not taught in seperate classes or even as subjects in their own right. Instead, students worked on quarterly projects that included research, design, and presentation of their finished product. That meant that we had to learn how to use the tools and techniques required for each project in context, not in the abstract.

    That required that the basic equipment and software (Macs and PCs, audio and video recording gear, media editing software, word processors, programming tools) were left openly available to students, both during regular classes and outside of school. We had deadlines for the projects, and the help of teachers in finding basic reference materials, but it was up to us to figure out which tools we needed, and then to share or develop the knowledge needed to utilize them.

    Second, and probably even more significantly, the teaching staff recognized their limited technical expertise, and actively encouraged students to train each other and learn from each others' experience. By integrating research, writing, media, and public performance into the projects, it was also possible to involve every student in the group's work -- techies like me could do media and Internet research, artistic kids could handle original art, costumes, etc., and the socially-gifted ones could be the public voice as actors or speakers.

    In short, the smaller and more limited your resources, the more I think you gain by basically letting the kids just experiment with what's available. It requires trust to let a 14 year-old take a school-owned DV camera home for the weekend, or work in a computer lab for hours after school with only minimal supervision, but the results will astound you.

    If you want a shopping list, get as much as possible of the following:

    * PCs or Macs stuffed with media production tools (Linux boxes might be a good choice if your software budget is small)
    * Solid video editing (think FCP Express, not iMovie) and audio editing and sequencing software
    * Several decent video cameras, tripods, microphones, etc. (pref. with cases that put everything into a package a kid can take home)
    * Projectors or large monitors with laptops, desktops on carts, or at least DVD players, for presentations
    * Up-to-date CD-ROM or web-based encyclopedias and language dictionaries -- pay for these if you need to, as bad research info will mean bad conclusions
    * CD burners for student projects, backups, and portfolios (the latter being very, very cool and motivating)
    * High-level programming tools for media (Flash, SuperCard, iShell) and simulation (Stella, Swarm)
    * Photoshop/Gimp, Illustrator/Inkscape, Frontpage/Bluefish, etc., etc.

    In short, give the kids access to pro-grade (or at least searious amateur-level) tools, and they may well just produce some scarily professional work.

  89. Restrict access to .jp by Kaboom13 · · Score: 1

    Seriously, make them use .jp sites. Want to check your mail? mail.yahoo.com wont work, but mail.yahoo.co.jp will. The most important part of learning a new language is USING the language. Maybe even give them some age-appropriate japenese language games. The computers aren't going to teach them the language, thats the instructor's job, but maybe you can get them to use the language and give them some motivation to learn.

    1. Re:Restrict access to .jp by Creepy+Crawler · · Score: 1

      ---Maybe even give them some age-appropriate japenese language games.

      And the first thing I though about was Hentai Games....

      --
  90. Useful phrases to learn for Japan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My penis is bigger than yours, shorty.
    You must save a fortune on street lighting in Nagasaki.
    What was your last schoolgirl like?
    Do you want all our anime freaks, because we certainly don't?.

  91. Kanji learning program by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You should give Slime Forest Adventure a try. http://www.lrnj.com/ It's like an old Final Fantasy for the Nintendo, but designed to teach English-speaking gamers written Japanese. All the kana (including even 'we' and 'wi') can be learned within a few days, and it has a little over a thousand kanji, with a short description to help memorization for each one. Currently it just has the English meaning for each kanji, pronounciation is on the way. There's Linux and Windows versions, Mac OS/X only sorta works.

    The project's currently stalled while multi-kanji words are properly included, but as-is it should give anyone able to deal with a demanding game a huge head start on reading Japanese.

  92. Two words... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Denshi Jisho. Get every one of the students a nice Denshi Jisho (Electronic Dictionary). Get them nice models, maybe Seiko ones. They sell for around $200 US these days. Of course I am talking about the Japanese models. These are THE most indispensable tools there are for learning Japanese. Trust me, I know from experience.

    You can factor this into the student's tuition and train them how to properly use them.

    -Tofusensei

  93. Japanese TV video clips with transcript by chipace · · Score: 1

    If you can link extisting interests with japanese language, then kids are more likely to enjoy studying and will do it more often. How about taping japanese satelite TV (shows the kids would be interested to learn what people are saying) and have them study that with transcripts?

  94. Palm software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For the last couple of years I've been using SuperMemo to help me learn French vocabulary. I find the program absolutely invaluable. It keeps track of the words that I have problems with and the words I don't. Portability is very important for me. I do most of my studying before I get out of bed or at odd moments throughout the day. I don't think a desktop application would be nearly as effective. After about 18 months I'm up to 4300 words and phrases, enough to give me a solid grounding in the language. The main part of learning a language is still listening, reading and speaking - but having a good grip on the vocabulary is very helpful.

  95. Buy Cartoon DVDs for the subtitles by NigelJohnstone · · Score: 2, Informative

    Buy DVDs, lots of cartoon DVDs and lend them out to the students.

    DVDs because the multiple languages and subtitles are a great way to learn a new language. Cartoons because animation has simpler phrases.

    1. Re:Buy Cartoon DVDs for the subtitles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Because it's critically important for your studants to learn how to shout out "Look out! That giant tentacled demon is molesting that ninja-school girl!"

      (Wait, you mean they make other kinds of cartoons, too?)

    2. Re:Buy Cartoon DVDs for the subtitles by darrylo · · Score: 1
      DVDs because the multiple languages and subtitles are a great way to learn a new language. Cartoons because animation has simpler phrases.

      While this can be an excellent motivator, it can be a pretty hard way to learn, because the subtitles are often just vague paraphrases. I remember one DVD translating, "I want to grab your butt", into "I want to hug you" (and this was just a plain "kids" anime DVD). I can just imagine the poor student saying that to someone .... ;-)

      (Shades of Monty Python's Hungarian Phrasebook sketch ....)

  96. Some insight... by fbg111 · · Score: 1

    Having just spent the past year studying Japanese at an intensive immersive program at Cornell University (FALCON), I might be able to provide some insight. First and foremost, your technology should support your teaching/training methodology. Develop your methodology first, then build your technology around it. Otherwise you may wind up spending your budget in ways that do not clearly contribute to your learning process.

    For example, the methodology at Cornell is to build both understanding and automaticity with the language. Understanding is achieved using detailed textbooks (Eleanor Harz Jordan, which some students complain about for being too dry, but which I believe explain the details of the language more completely than any other series), and daily lectures that further explain aspects of the grammar that students may not have completely understood from reading. The technological contribution here is minimal.

    Automaticity - the ability to speak Japanese correctly without thinking about it - is achieved by having students memorize lots of conversations and grammatical patterns during homework and study lab. Then, during 3 drill periods per day led by native Japanese speakers, students are challenged to use these conversations and grammatical patterns in new ways. Once students reach the point where they can instantly recall and apply various grammatical patterns to new conversational situations without much thought, then they have achieved automaticity with the language.

    Technology is used to support achieving automaticity in several ways. Much of it is audio-based, and some of the audio is on language tapes, other is in quicktime audio on a website (http://lrc.cornell.edu), and other is audio/video in quicktime vids on the website. The most important aspect of the audio is that it is all spoken by native Japanese speakers, and in Cornell's case, by Tokyo-ites. If you do something similar, keep in mind that the goal should be to create an efficient method of accessing whatever audio your class uses.

    For a little more detail, audio is used in several ways. First, on the course website are quicktime videos of native Japanese people in various everyday situations. Students watch the video and are required to 1) understand the situation and the cultural aspects of it, and 2) to memorize all sides of the converstation, and 3) to re-enact the conversation during drill class with the native Japanese teacher. The teacher will change things around and challenge the students to step out of the memorized comfort-zone and use the patterns, vocab, and newly acquired knowledge of Japanese culture to respond correctly to different situations.

    A second use is something called "Eavesdroppings", in which students listen to quicktime audio files of conversations between native Japanese speakers, and must translate what was said. It tests listening and understanding ability.

    Third, the Eleanor Harz Jordan books come with a CD-ROM companion program that's very good, although a bit dated (must run in Win95 compatibility mode on Win2k and WinXP). It contains all the Quicktime video and audio, along with breakdowns and eplanations of new vocab and grammar as it occurs. (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/030 0075634/qid=1103321825/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xg l14/002-1361347-6472006?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)

    Also, one thing that helped me was that I was able to convert all the Quicktime audio and video to MP3 files using Quicktime Pro and Audacity (http://sourceforge.net/projects/audacity/), and put them on my iPod, which let me carry around and listen to my Japanese wherever I was, or even when driving my car four hour

    --
    Flying is easy, just throw yourself at the ground and miss. -Douglas Adams
  97. Our story of digital language lab by who's+got+my+nicknam · · Score: 1

    We installed a digital language lab two years ago to teach children in our high school their traditional (Canadian First Nations) language. We have 10 workstations running a software package called Genesis, which basically allows the teacher to distribute A/V content to the students. Features include: -Teacher can monitor each workstation both visually and audibly (hear what the student is saying). -Teacher can stream A/V content to any/all stations. Content can be live (from a camera) or prerecorded (CD, DVD, VCR, audio tape, etc.). -Teacher can remotely control the student's station. Applications can be activated/stopped/blocked. -Teacher can broadcast their desktop to any/all students for demonstration. -Teacher can broadcast a student's desktop to any/all students. Lesson plans can be made in advance and delivered to individuals or groups of students. -Teacher can monitor in real-time the students' progress on audio or written exams. -Teacher can perform real-time oral or written exams. There are many other features, but we don't use a lot of them. We just wanted to simulate our old cassette tape language lab with modern computers. This software is pricey, but you can get a demo that lets you have four workstations plus the teacher machine, and it's fully functional for as long as you want. We purchased it from a company in Utah called Linguatronics , and they provided excellent service and support. If you contact them, they will give you a demo to try it out. You do need to have pretty decent machines for this to work. I'd recommend at least a P4-class at 1.5Ghz or better, with a shwack of RAM. We discovered that a dedicated LAN is an absolute, and you need a top-drawer switch. Note: Since we installed this, they have changed their name to Genieve Software, and the product is called XClass Pro. . Good luck. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions about our system.

    --
    "Apparatus dignosco occultus, satis non supernus."
    1. Re:Our story of digital language lab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Dartmouth College Recorder has very similar functionality and is free. The developer of El Vocabulador has a Japanese version which runs on the web as well as PocketPC, and you should check out Jim Breen's free dictionary files for applications you develop on you own.

  98. Talking Panda by TrueJim · · Score: 1
    http://www.talkingpanda.com/

    "Talking Panda iLingo sets a new standard for language translation software. Designed for the iPod, it's stocked with over four hundred essential words and phrases of the language you want to speak, organized for instant access. Download and install the program right now and begin your adventure abroad. Virtual fluency available in French, German, Italian, Spanish, Cantonese, Mandarin Chinese, Korean, and Japanese."

    --
    I hope that after I die the one word people use to describe me is "resurrected."
  99. Make them read newspapers by scottjpearson · · Score: 1

    Learning German at Princeton, one of the most beneficial things we did was reading German newspapers on the web, forcing us to translate them. If this is a native-speaking Japanese school, reading a sophisticated newspaper may be one of the best vocabulary and grammar builders around. I know the NYTimes is great for me. Or make them surf the web utilizing their Japanese skills, to do research projects or to price items.

  100. Automated Language Testing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ordinate Corporation (http://www.ordinate.com) offers automated spoken language testing in English. This press release says they are working on a Japanese test (in addition to Spanish and Dutch). Could be a useful performance evaluation tool for a language training institute.

    1. Re:Automated Language Testing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Missed the press release URL! http://www.ordinate.com/content/about/Harcourt-Fin al.shtml

  101. computer aids to learning Japanese by belmolis · · Score: 1

    As several people have already said, don't rely on the computers for the basic language instruction. What is far more important are good textbooks and good instructors. That said, there are two things for which computers are useful.

    First, once the students have a sufficient grounding, computers can be used to provide them with opportunities to use Japanese outside the classroom. These range from reading Japanese websites through IM and email with Japanese speakers to videoconferencing, though this last seems kind of artificial to me - I'm not sure how well it will work.

    Second, computers are terrific for learning to read and write. Kanji drill programs are really helpful for both beginners and advanced students who need a refresher. Looking things up in computer dictionaries is much faster than using paper dictionaries, especially when looking up kanji. There are tools that let you enter a chunk of text and look up the characters for you, such as this Japanese reading tool.

    As a linguist who has studied a lot of languages and has had experience teaching languages, I'm not impressed by flashy technology. Much of it is just a distraction - there's no substitute for learning vocabulary, learning the grammar, and practice speaking, listening, reading, and writing. But as someone who learned Japanese before the personal computer, I know that tools like the ones I have mentioned would have saved me a great deal of time and frustration.

  102. A Japanese language school, eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Offer free anime as a "learning tool". You'll have lines of people wanting to sign up.

  103. Linux/KDE education software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have a few idea's that could definalty work for this type of setting. Sorry for the anonymous post, but don't feel like getting a slashdot account since I don't post here often(been reading for 3+ years). This is my background/expertiese in the area. CS major with Japanese minor, spent a year at one of the kokuritsu(established by the goverment) universities studying japanese and computers. In my experience in studying languages, tried korean and german, japanese is very different. I became fluent after about a year and a half of the language(after 6 months in the country, year studying at college in the states). This is what I used to study.

    http://www.kanjisite.com, has all the kanji you'll need to study to be about a 8th/9th grade student, this should be the homepage for all your web browsers.

    Japanese is also alot of kanji, so you have to be able to recognize/read the characters. All the software I used for this is open source and I was able to learn to recognize 50-100 different characters a night of study(3-4 hours). I used the combination of KVocTrain, FlashKard, and Kiten. KVocTrain has a setting where it rates the word you know from a level of 1-7 and the frequency of the word appearing is based on that ranking.

    Learning Japanese, or any language for that matter, is all about exposure and repetition. You can study japanese all you want, but if you don't keep seeing the same words over and over again to reinforce them, you will forget. And with Japanese characters, it is more important to have these reinforced.

    I used the FlashKard program to quickly go through a whole deck of words about once a week(usually about 400 words) and have about a 90% chance of recognizing and understanding the meaning of the word when I saw it on a sign/book, and about a 50-60% of understanding it from a conversation.

    I used Kiten along with the large yet sometimes confusing dictionaries from Jim Breen's website,
    http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/wwwjd ic.html.

    This can be used as a way to get students to reinforce what they learn using a computer. I find this way definatly exceeds the normal flash card approach because of the efficiency and randomness of it.

    Another thing would be to have video in the room and maybe contact a school in japan to get live video feeds of their teaching.

    And my biggest piece of advice. BAN the electronic and paper dictionaries in class. They are very good out in the world when you want to remember something you forgotten, but reliance on them when your trying to learn something is a hinderance to learning. I knew people in the advanced class at my college when I was in Japan who were using the electronic dictionaries for every sentence they had to write/listen to(sorry, didn't have a speaking class). They weren't learning, they were just translating. By constantly looking at the dictionary, you arn't using what you know, you are taking the easy way out.

    Force the students to learn the language, use technology wisely, don't use it in a fashion that makes it counterproductive to learning.

  104. Since I earn money with e-learning... by Qbertino · · Score: 1

    ... I'd suggest you check out the open source rich media framework Xical for your e-learning needs. It's front line when it comes to dynamic rich-media e-learning applications (it's completely Flash based and GPLd) and is all you need on top of a self-made LMS. I recommend Zope/Plone/CMF for your own LMS. If your interessted in an open source based LMS you might want to ask the xical team (the mailaddress is on the .org website) - which I'm a part of - and we can get in contact. I work with various partners and each has their own LMS variant, yet all have in common that they are dirt cheap and front line. Naturaly as it's all open source people and OSS technology involved.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  105. Girls and Manga by cocoa+moe · · Score: 1

    Seriously. If you want to get a lot of students you can do this by establishing a student-lifestyle. Then the kids will tell other kids about it. Because language is all about social interactions, get the experts: young female students. Your students will most probably tell you, when they want a new electronic gizmo, and if they ask they become involved and identify with your school.

    People will folow people, not technology.

  106. Useful for reading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Computers are most useful for learning how to read Japanese. Not so useful for speaking or listening of course, you need real instructors for that.

    Very useful: IM software which can handle Japanese. For a difficult written language like Japanese, this is handy for learning to read quickly. Also the students will learn how to use Japanese input methods, which will be useful for them in the future. Yahoo Messenger is pretty good, and there are Japan chat rooms where the studnets could go looking for real Japanese people to type with. Very useful. However note that only the MacOSX and Windows versions of Yahoo messenger can handle multi-language input, the Linux version doesn't seem to work. Other IM software like Gaim may be an option if you wish to run Linux.

    Some dictionary software such as EDICT, an open-source English/Japanese dictionary. This is nice for quick lookups and searches, but it's just a nice supplement to a real dictionary.

  107. Flash cards! by aristus · · Score: 1

    No, not CF, SD, etc. Hand-size pieces of cardboard with pictures and translations. They absolutely work, adults too. Or, some sort of whiz-bang flash card program, of course.

    --
    Sometimes seventeen/Syllables aren't enough to/Express a complete
  108. Webpage by MrNonchalant · · Score: 1

    a stunningly poorly designed homepage

    I suggest you fix that for starters. The web can be an absolutely huge customer draw if you let it. The idea here is to become a (minor) authority on your subject in order to attract interest. If people Google for information on the Japanese language and culture, and your site provides it in detail and in a pleasing-to-the-eye manner, a percentage will translate into customers. Its a chance to demonstrate your style of teaching and gets word of mouth if done properly. This kind of marketing is a lot more effective than promotions or banner ads.

  109. none by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    try http://www.rosettastone.com/home/ they sell products for learing different languages. their products are little expensive, but if you are a group it might work out cheap for you. try them out, they have different approach for teaching languages.

  110. Game that teaches Japanese by centauri · · Score: 1

    I'm reasonably certain I remember Penny Arcade mentioning a game that taught you Japanese as you went along. Look into that.

    --
    Don't blame me, I voted for Durga.
  111. decent projector or television and good sound by CaptainPinko · · Score: 1

    I mean nothing helps better in learning a language than watching foreign films. Starting with subtitles turned in english (assuming thats the native language) then moving onto playing films with japanese subtitles and then eventually only in japanese. Films are fun-- people love movies, and the provide cultural information directly (by showing actual locations costumes and ceremonies) and indirectly by revealing the film maker's biases and cultural themes (for example in their portrayal of women or sexuality or violence). After all a language is only as good in as far as someone knows how to use. Oh and you need good sound for the students to hear the language properly. And may I recommend Akira Kurosawa's films? Seven Samurai?

    --
    Your CPU is not doing anything else, at least do something.
  112. Here's are my tips. by Spirit+Of+Atlantis · · Score: 1

    I learn(ed) Japanese on my own and have a few tips for you guys to make it more fun as learning Japanese or Mandarin for that matter is not horribly complex, but it is alot of information that a student gets to digest.
    And the quickest way to learn things is if they are fun, so here's my 2 eurocents on this.


    1) I use(d) this software to learn my Hiragana, Katakana and Kanji and it is to my experience by far the best software i have seen to date to learn it.
    Click this link here:http://www.declan-software.com/japanese/
    It consists of Readwrite Hiragana, Readwrite Katakana, ReadWrite Kanji, a Japanese Dictionary and a software set of flashcards.
    About the Readwrite applications i'm simply thrilled...though as a dictionary i prefer a book and the flashcard application is also quite fun to learn with.
    So i would definatly recommend you the 3 Readwrite applications and maybe the flashcards one...i'm sure the students will love that.

    2) To make things more fun for myself...i like to read Japanese comics, for the younger people this is maybe a bit more attractive then lets say Japanese poetry, although Japanese comics and poetry interest me both, i could understand that when you'd have a few younger students they'd appreciate the Japanese comics.
    So maybe you might want to have some Japanese comics lying around and for others maybe some Japanese poetry books.
    To have some Japanese newspapers and Magazines(of different topics for different people) lying around could also be quite useful.

    3) Movies...i'm a fan of Japanese movies and manga animation, there's almost nothing as fun as learning Japanese this way, so suppose for example when the students have learned some new stuff, when watching a film they could recognize the newly learned words and grammar(be sure to pick the films strategically coherent to the skill-level of the class) even if they don't fully understand the entire movie right away.
    Sometimes i watched a Japanese movie and had no clue as to what they were saying, but some sentences got stuck in my mind and lateron when i learned more about the Japanese language i was able to translate the sentences that i remembered...giving a moment of "AHA!, so that was what they were talking about"...this is truly a joyous moment when you figure out stuff like this on your own.
    So maybe a simple tv and dvd-player to sometimes watch a Japanese movie could come in handy...maybe when watching with the class the teacher could now and then pause and explain the what, how and why of what was said.
    This keeps students interested because they are following the story of a movie(perhaps with sub-titles for the lesser skilled) and while enjoying themselves they get explaination from the teacher every so now and then.

    4) Access to chats and forums where real Japanese people hang out, maybe forums that concern some more of the serious matters, because when you would show a forum or chat where Japanese teenagers hang out....the language might be more lets say "non-traditional".
    This way they have the possibility to really interact with Japanese people and get accustomed to the way they discuss matters.

    5) If it's not too stressful on the budget, maybe you could have some real flashcards to hand out to students so that they have something to practice with when they go home or sit in the bus or anything.

    6) Be sure to have some good Japanese dictionaries lying around, because there are so many of these and they all vary in ease of use, completeness etc etc.
    I atleast haven't found 1 single Japanese dictionary that covered it all combined with an orderly layout and ease of use.
    So maybe to have some dictionaries lying around that are "of different styles" would be handy, because as far as i know, everyone has it's favorite.(Some for example prefer different lookup-systems other than looking up characters by number of strokes)

  113. Moodle (not Moogle) is awesome! by sigemund · · Score: 1

    I introduced Moodle to the school I work at about a year ago, and after a year of trying to make headway, finally I was able to get people to buy into it for this school year. It's been up all semester.

    Moodle is GREAT. There's no other way about it. It's easy to use, very featureful, easy to admin, simple to setup and get moving, and still powerful. It blows away anything else we've ever done before -- personal webspace, other course management systems, etc. We did a survey about how many faculty used the web for posting assignments, etc. through our old and exceptionally awful course management system, and the numbers were not good -- about 20% used it at all, and about 5% of the faculty used it often.

    Things are very different now. Around 65% of the faculty use Moodle in some capacity, and about 40% of the faculty use it often. They use all sorts of features -- assignments, lessons, resources, discussion boards, etc. It meshes so well with what so many people want to do, and it's so easy to use that there's not much reason for them not to use it in some capacity. And it's flexible enough to be used in whatever way the teacher wants. I think that by next year, about 80% of the faculty will be using Moodle, as those who don't use it now typically want to, they just have been lazy about it.

    Moodle is the best thing we've done this year where I work. It's improved communication with faculty and students greatly, and it's helped to keep students more interested in classes. We run Novell, and the LDAP functionality ties in perfectly. Plus with all the great modules, moodle is very extensible. If you don't see an existing module to fulfill a need, you can write it yourself. Moodle can do almost anything you want it to do, and it does pretty much all of it very well.

    If you have any questions about Moodle, drop me an email (sigemund AT gmail . com).

  114. Computers and Language Learning by Alice_Pleasance_Lidd · · Score: 1

    It's true that any amount of technology can't substitute for a good teacher who understand the motivation level of students. Still, here are some ideas.

    Computers allow the kind of interactive immersion that one teacher can't provide for many students. Making a creative virtual environment with sounds and images that provides feedback on correct learning would help let students explore lessons for themselves at a pace they help choose.

    The best test for learning anything is if a student is able to explain it in turn to someone else- having students create Flash animations with recorded dialogue that illustrate what they've learned is a good activity even for technophobes if they are given a basic checklist with the option of doing more.

    Part of language is grammar and vocabulary, which is easy to test on a computer; but the majority is face-to-face usage and exposure to native usage, and those would require creative assignments, like "use a webcam to ask a native speaker what they're weekend plans are" which is pretty advanced.

  115. Moogle? Should be Moodle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Moodle is an Open Source class management program.

  116. rosetta stone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    www.rosettastone.com language learning software. Not exactly cheap, but good.

  117. Make education the starting point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I run a language lab at a medium-sized public university in the US. My advice is to plan technology around good teaching practices. Gagne's "Events of Instruction" is a good place to start. Know how your technology is going to help you carry out these steps (and if it will help you do it in a more compelling way than other cheaper methods)

    1) Gain attention
    2) Inform learners of objectives
    3) Stimulate recall of prior learning
    4) Present the content
    5) Provide "learning guidance"
    6) Elicit performance (practice)
    7) Provide feedback
    8) Assess performance
    9) Enhance retention and transfer of new skills to other jobs

    Another list I like to check myself against as I contemplate a new technology project for the lab is Gamson and Chickering's "Seven Principles"

    Good practice in undergraduate education:
    1) encourages contact between faculty and students
    2) develops reciprocity and collaboration
    3) encourages active learning
    4) gives prompt feedback
    5) emphasizes time on task
    6) communicates high expectations
    7) respects diverse talents and ways of learning

    Good luck with your project.

  118. Software and the learning process by iamavirus · · Score: 1

    I took japanese at university and the only access we had to computers was in the library, not during class.

    The school offered no e-learning but our coursebook had a homepage. So technically if you accessed the homepage at the library the university was offering e-learning.

    Not having specific e-teaching is fine since teaching languages doesn't really need/benefit from using computers. Especially japanese: all reports and essays have to be written by hand anyway, doing japanese auto-input on a keyboard doesn't exactly help the students kanji writing skills.

    That's not saying that you should't have computers. They are very good for self-study. What you can do / what I did at home was:

    Put various websites through rikai like slashdot.jp or asahi shinbun.

    Lookup kanji/words with gjiten for linux or jquicktrans (radical lookup is great) for windows. This is almost like a denshi-jisyo.

    Flashcard programs: kgold etc.

    Of course it's important to have a correctly set-up keyboard and all fonts installed. Windows handles this just fine. I had no problems with linux, but it could be my great dist. The macs at school were a catastrophe (you had to cut/paste kanji from a table containing all kanji).

    Jim Breen has an extensive page about japanese with a lot about software. You can google for his name.

    Remember to have a goal for each teaching session and to properly teach the students how to use all software you're going to use in class. I.e. don't just plunk students in front of a computer, tell them to open a program and hope they'll take it from there. They will also need a task/exercise to do if they are going to use the computer. Otherwise everyone will just sit there, doing nothing, waiting for class to end. This is a common problem with schools who hope computers will magically teach the students as long as the students sit for a while in front of the computers.

  119. My Japanese College Experience by glazed · · Score: 1

    I've not tried to use kanji on an x86, regardless of OS. My Japanese professor in college used Macs exclusively for the lanugage support.

  120. Best Choice? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hire my sister, who's been teaching English in JP for years (or there learning the native tongue, as it were) and knows enough to boot a Knoppix disk!

  121. Essential Software Tools by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The best way to learn masses of vocabulary at a rapid pace: Supermemo http://www.supermemo.com/.
    Another one I rely on: Pauker http://pauker.sourceforge.net/

    You could create some Japanese vocabulary bundles tailored to Readings and Audios you have.

    Check http://antimoon.com/ for some great advice on general approaches, and why traditional classroom instruction fails.

  122. Ummm... by Pampusik · · Score: 1

    ...if you have to ask Slashdot folks what you should use to teach, then you're basically asking us what you should be teaching.

    If you have a business plan and a clear understanding of your own instructional approach, instructional technology should fall into place. You should start with the basics and check back when you're ready.

  123. The only way to learn a language... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...is to live within it. Nothing else will teach a language. Flashcards, grammar drills, and the like can help -- especially at first! -- but the only way to learn is to interact using the language.

    Therefore, all technology must be geared toward that goal.

    Seriously, get pop culture from Japan: films, music, story games, books, magazines, newspapers, and video games (with a lot of writing or spoken dialog). Do your best to create a piece of Japan in your school. And, as soon as possible, have all students speak -only- in Japanese with each other.

    Good luck!

  124. Technology should serve the purpose. by erroneus · · Score: 1

    The purpose should not serve technology.

    I'm guessing your wife is Japanese and knows how to teach Japanese sufficiently. So that part assumed, ask HER how she wants to run the courses. And if you're all geared up to computerizing it as much as possible, then I dare say that you're running the risk of walking on new ground.

    You're asking Slashdot, so you know the answer 9 times out of 10 is "Linux" and/or "Open Source." I offer thoughts along those lines. Speaking as a student of Japanese, I know that learning all the basic aspects of the language is helpful as one aspect adds strength to another. For example, learning kana most certainly aids in speaking and hearing.

    Writing practice is an irreplaceable tool. Wanna save paper? Get a pen-tablet thingy for them to practice with. Until the recognition software is available (is it?) your wife or someone else will have to grade from the screen or from the printer.

    Listening exercises are critical in my opinion. Japanese people are famous for speaking way too fast. Headsets and exercises that are driven from a server that contains gobs and gobs of sample conversation followed by some simple testing is also a relatively easy thing to conceptualize. It could easily be done using a web server and browser.

    But most importantly, Establish the system using conventional means and determine for yourselves if the computers can enhance things in any way that's worth-while.

    (Learning to use an IME is a computer-only thing but then again, if after learning kana, they can't figure out an IME? Sheesh... )

  125. Some suggestions by ichigo · · Score: 1

    It would be nice if those computers you have there have access to the internet. There are tons of free resources to supplement language learning.

    Here are what internet can provide:

    Also you may want to set up the computers so that the students can watch some movies and stuff (especially the addictive Japanese cartoons). This is indeed a great way to have fun and improve listening skills at the same time.
  126. Look at getting some Japanese PS2 & Gamecubes by horsebutt · · Score: 1

    In all seriousness, look at getting a few japanese PS2 and Gamecubes, with story driven games like zelda or final fantisy.

    This way It will force the students to learn to read japanese while enjoying playing the game. It will be a good experience for you and for the students.

    It will be fun and beneficial. Just make sure they cant just skip the japanese, So no soul Calibur 2.

  127. Anime :) by rolfwind · · Score: 1

    I'm assuming this is a physical school.

    Have a library of anime. :)

    Seriously. I learned more Japanese listening to the anime I like in the original language than trying to learn it from a book. Plus it's fun. Motivation. Non-tedious. And you get the correct pronunciations for stuff. Plus how people really speak versus the business type speech in most language books. Plus the culture in some of shows.

    In order to retain a language it must be used and excercised. Have newspapers/recorded news shows (my father learned English in three months from these when he migrated over to Canada from Germany), other shows, Movies, CHILDREN'S BOOKS and toys, or whatever else is ENGAGING.

    You're not just teaching a language but a culture. It's a very interesting culture.

    STAY AWAY from the computers unless it's to surf the Japanese portion of the Internet. Most everything else connected to the computer will be a gadgety and a waste of money.

  128. huh? by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

    While I'm not entirely sure what is meant by "language school", I'm going to guess it means either a computer language school (ie, a technical school), or a spoken language school (ie, teach english to japanese children, or vice versa). Either way, it really doesn't make a whole lot of difference in what I'm going to say...

    I thought most technically savy people were aware of the shitty nature of all the schools which claim to be "high tech" schools, such as DeVry, ITT Tech, etc.? Maybe you aren't. Let me inform you.

    Adding all these "complications" such as high-tech instruction simply detract from the overall education experience. Computer labs are fine, a network is fine, and various other IT infrastructure is fine, but don't let yourself get distracted. If you focus on making the campus (and off-campus access) as high-tech as possible, try to integrate as much cool technology into the courses as possible, and make certain tools prevailant (such as web-cam learning) you will degrade from the quality of the base skills which the students will acquire - simply because these 'tools' will consume time that would be better put towards the more base conceptual skills you're trying to teach.

    I've seen this first-hand in many places, and not only in tech schools. Public primary schools in the US (I don't know where you're based, as you don't explicitly mention it) spend copious amounts of money on labs full of computers which never get used. Teachers are required to try and find a use for the labs, and end up bringing their classes to the labs with no goal (resulting in solitaire expert 7th graders). The same occurs in colleges - all the "high tech" goes mostly unused, and when it is used, it's for chat, porn, and various other things that are fairly contrary to the education process.

    Not only that, but high-tech stuff adds to the cost of the education, putting a fairly high barrier in place for those who might want to attend. I'm currently in the situation where I'm seriously considering a transfer to another school, as we now have a $400 quarterly (as we're on a quarter system here, not semester) technology fee for all the "high tech" things the school has recently added: a mandatory school-provided laptop for every student, cisco 802.11g APs, Radius (which is used to restrict people from using their own hardware on the network), Altiris (monitoring software for the laptops, as they're still owned by the school), Blackboard corporate edition (courseware, which costs nearly 1M$ for licensing), and a slew of new MS software which is on every laptop but not used. In addition to that, they've got labs full of brand new Dells with the latest geforce fx cards which never get used for classes (due to the laptops) and can't be used for other things such as games (as the students only get a User account on them and fairly strict useage guidelines). Meanwhile, the actual education suffers because they've forced web integration into damned near every course, (resulting in half-assed applications of the technology) and the newly hired professors make less and are of lower quality.

    Let me make the following suggestions:
    1) Above all else, make course registration simple, your advisors knowledgeable and helpful, and your course requirements logical and not needlessly repetitive (ie, don't require "CS100 Intro to Programming Logic" and "CS150 Intro to C++" both requirements for another course when the content in both CS150 and CS100 is largely the same. Better yet, don't have courses with painfully similar content - you'll only piss off your students).
    2) if you are going to sink more money into technology for the school, sink it into infrastructure: Linux servers which the users can have shell accounts on, Samba servers with large amounts of user share space, and various other things which can be broadly applied as a tool for learning.
    3) Make the school network accessable from the outside via VPN.
    4) Spend more time and money finding the right people to teach and planning

    --
    ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
  129. Obligatory Quote by freedom_india · · Score: 1
    In Soviet Russia, Japanese teach YOU !!!

    Oh heck, i forgot...

    --
    "Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
  130. Immersion by mrshoe · · Score: 1

    Having quite a bit of experience in this area, I can say that immersion is by far the best way to learn a language. You need to get the students speaking, reading, and hearing nothing but Japanese as many hours per day as possible. Software can help with this by providing recordings of native speakers and allowing the students to interact with the recordings.

    I would mimic the best language school out there as much as possible.

    --
    There are two types of people in this world: those that categorize other people and those that don't.
  131. iPods are cool, but WordTanks are better by Felonious+Monk · · Score: 1

    I spent two years studying Japanese in a University setting (The University of Texas at Austin, if it matters) and the only electronic/computer gadget that was ever worth diddly was the Canon WordTank(TM) http://store.aikotradingstore.com/cawog50.html. This is a genuinely useful study aid and you could do worse than giving one to every student. Beyond that, there's just no substitute for immersion or, failing that, plain old elbow grease.

  132. Moodle? by ignoramus · · Score: 1

    I'm guessing you're suffering from googleitis and meant moodle instead of moogle.

    If that's the case, then yeah, moodle might be a good choice. It's pretty modular, but be warned that it really wants to stick with the social constructionist philosophy. This might actually be quite good for your needs, as I'm guessing acquiring a language is an activity that can certainly benefit from this type of learning--it's just that I ended up on a project that was trying to adapt it to the California DMV requirements and it got pretty hairy.

    It works with a bunch of DBs, it's PHP so everybody and their uncle can mess around and customize it, its got nice UIs for students and teachers, and you can even force your advanced students to use it in Nihonji (using the Japanese language pack).

    Give it a spin, it's GPLed and everything :)

  133. MOD PARENT UP by master_meio · · Score: 0

    "Rye-tee-tee tech" ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

  134. Forget revolutionary, and don't think high-tech by spisska · · Score: 1

    The most important thing you will need is a good teaching staff. Don't worry about expensive equipment as much as basic educational supplies.

    Good textbooks and workbooks, lots of materials for activities, flip-chart paper, markers, dictionaries, a photocopier, and a well-lit room.

    Also try to get some materials from Japan that can be used in activities and/or demonstrate how the language is used in everyday life -- things like restaurant menus, magazines (advertisements are great for language activities), brochures, maps, etc.

    Don't skimp on physical books and artifacts thinking you can get the same thing online. The books and bits of paper are FAR more helpful in teaching language than any web site is, especially in the hands of a good teacher.

  135. Online Grades by Atomicdesigns · · Score: 1

    ENGRADE.COM will allow you to post your students grades online in real-time. I'm sure they would like that.

  136. Dictation by shinyplasticbag · · Score: 1

    One of the local universities has an interesting system setup. The professors wear a wireless microphone that is connected to a computer running speech recognition software. Whatever they say is transcribed and projected onto a screen behind them, and the transcript (along with audio) are put up on the course web site. Might be overkill, but could be useful (especially having the audio version available).

  137. Having just finished taking a japanese course... by Darken_Everseek · · Score: 1

    Forgive me for not having read the majority of the responses thus far, but I have exams I'm studying for.

    I take engineering at the University of Alberta and decided to take introductory Japanese as my fourth year complimentary studies elective course. All I can say is that I -highly- recommend against using computers as an aid to learning a foreign language. There is simply no substitute for verbal and written practice.

    Our university made extensive use of "web Course Tools" (webCT), including weekly marked assignments, and requiring us to upload pieces of dictation. These assignments were the most frustrating aspect of the course, especially given the sensitivity of trying to type in japanese text from an english keyboard. The number of times I typed 'wa' rather than 'ha' for a subject marker, or 'o' instead of 'wo' for a direct object marker would stagger you. 'nn' was also a sticking point.

    Do yourself a favour, get a good textbook. We used the Nakama series here, and I recommend it highly; it comes complete with an audio cd set, so you can listen to what you've been learning, spoken by native Japanese.

    Oh, and I hope your teachers are more forgiving when it comes to spelling for handwritten assignments, as well. Especially before they start teaching kanji.

  138. Want High-Tech? Check out MY school for ideas! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My school Olathe Northwest has deployed Palm handlhelds to every student and staff member in the building. Tests are taken via the Palm, and graded instantly. Homework can be "beamed" into the teacher's PC as a word document. Books in English are ebooks on our Palms. On top of all that, my school has a building-wide WiFi network, with several clusters of laptops (2.4 ghz) for different sections of the schools.

    My school offers several 12st century programs such as Web Design/Development, Animation, Gaming (Yes folks, we make games), Aerospace and Engineering, Graphics Design, and a couple more I forget. :)

    Nerd's paradise ;) Our football team never wins, but oh well; we have technology! :D

    I hope your high-tech school will be as successful as ours has been. Established 2003, our test scores are already highest in the district.

    Go Ravens!

  139. Moogles by shish · · Score: 1
    Moogles are a great teaching aid - they're japanese enough to be educational, and cute enough to keep the student's attention!

    On an unrelated note, Moodle is a quite nice bit of lesson management software; we've started testing it in our school, and it seems fine so far :)

    --
    I mod down anyone who says "I will be modded down for this", regardless of the rest of their comment
  140. The Breen site by minairia · · Score: 1

    integrate this web-site into your program somehow: http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/wwwjdic.html I'm not attached to it formally in anyway. But, using the Breen site above, I basically taught myself to read advanced Japanese in a year. It even has open sourced ideals built in, people can submit new words and correct entries.

  141. Overall profile by westendgirl · · Score: 1
    I studied Japanese for a couple of semesters in university and participated in a short homestay in Japan. Although I actually majored in English, that experience and paltry language skills helped me get my first job after university. I got a job with a financial services software company that had a large client base in Japan. They wouldn't have hired me without my prior work experience in marketing, communication and writing. However, the people on the hiring team figured that, if I had even a basic understanding of Japanese culture and language, I'd bring value to the company. I could at least appreciate some of the cultural norms. The same company also hired a young Chinese-Canadian woman who had majored in Japanese -- but who also had other marketing experience.

    While a language degree alone may not ensure success, it can augment your overall profile. Companies rarely hire a person for a single trait or skill -- and you'd probably be bored in a position that only drew on one trait/skill. Instead, try to identify your strongest transferable skills, then map them to the needs of potential employers. In doing so, your language skills will become part of your total offering for the employer. In fact, this is relevant no matter what your major. (I did my undergrad in English, so I had to make this my strategy, since some people think Arts grads are useless.)

    --

    -- SYS 64738 --

  142. I recommend by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

    Books and paper. People have been using them (or their equivalent) for thousands of years to learn new languages.

    LK

    --
    "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
  143. Example of using Technology for Language Learning by asset_wrangler · · Score: 1

    We just finished up our first quarter offering an Online Japanese Language Course at the University of Washington.

    The prevalence of broadband has allowed us to use technologies such as video conferencing in our applications which I think really makes a difference for language learning (especially the oral communications focus the offered class has).

    Take a look here to see the technologies we are using: http://www.tjp.washington.edu/bjo/

  144. I'm sorry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    but all the technological gadgets in the world will not make up for poor teaching. And the universe is also true. If you have good and interesting lessons, students will come regardless of whether they can play with stupid Internet games between their classes.

  145. High-tech Language Learning by Mr_Icon · · Score: 1

    How I learned French in one year using the Internet, an mp3 player, and a Netflix account.

    Written by a fellow geek. :)

    --
    If you open yourself to the foo, You and foo become one.
  146. Obligatory FF response by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Moogle? KUPO!!!

  147. take the money and by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0



    at the very least, get a japanese capable word processor so they can write papers.

  148. Helpful hint by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Two words: bukkake videos.

    Nuff said.

  149. Re:Moogle? Doesn't he mean Moodle? by ulrikp · · Score: 1

    We at the Department of Communication, University of Aalborg, Denmark use Moodle as the primary communications channel for one of our study programs in multimedia. It works extremely well for us -- our students and lecturers love the simplicity of the interface, while also relishing its power. Teachers speak well of Moodle's didactically enabling features, and the ease with which they can structure the time-flow of their teaching using Moodle.

    I am the administrator/help desk guy for our Moodle site, and I must say, it is easy as pie. I very rarely hear from anyone, and when I do, it's usually fixed in 15 minutes or less. I've been running our site for almost a year and a half now, and I've only spent something like 20 man-hours on it, all told. That includes spending time upgrading Moodle, fixing bugs in Moodle, AND supporting users. Moodle has a very active and very helpful user community at the Moodle site, which provides lots of help both to newbies and to seasoned Moodle veterans.

    I've recommended Moodle for another Danish educational institution, and they've also been running it for a year and a half now, with very good results. The praise lavished on Moodle from their users -- teachers and students -- falls along the same lines as what I said above.

    I can highly recommend Moodle as a Course Management System.

    Ulrik Petersen

  150. a sushi bar with a robot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    robot makes sushi. high-tech stuff.

  151. Re:Computers and education repeat, repeat, repeat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am bilingual in English and Japanese. Japanese is my second language I learned from age 19. I lived in Japan for 14 years.

    I love to see postings for ESL teachers, with some complicated idea about how to learn language. Most of these teachers have never learn a 2nd language as an adult, so I wonder what makes them think they are qualified to teach. I guess they get a certificate from somewhere. The truth is, there is nothing complicated about their discipline.

    To learn a language, you need to know grammar. This can be learned from a book. You need to have the mechanics of the language and vocabulary. Then, you need to practice in real life situations.

    The single best approach to learning a language is to listen and repeat, listen and repeat, listen and repeat. You do this until you are almost like a drone. You do this everyday. You do it until you are absolutely comfortable with every word and grammar structure needed to communicate. You repeat until the target language feels natural coming from your mouth.

    I didn't learn how to learn until my 3rd year in Japan. My boss told me how he was able to speak English (and his English was native). He said he woke up at 5 am every morning and repeated random English sentences for 20 minutes a day. I tried this, and my Japanese was excellent in 3 months. It was boring, it wasn't academic, but it worked.

    So, there you have it, the secret of learning a foreign language. I get asked all the time how I can speak Japanese so well. I tell them exactly how I did it. The interesting thing is, nobody is interested in putting in the effort. They want quick solutions, or some warm body in front of a blackboard to make them think they are learning. It amazes me people spend money for language classes.

    So, back to this thread. Can computers help with repeating exercises. Yes they can. In fact, it is the best way to do repeating practice.

  152. Example... by kaiidth · · Score: 1

    Take a look at uni-deutsch.de. Then, make damn sure you don't do it the way they did, which is to say: do not use quicktime libraries in your java applets, because the result will crash nearly everything.

    Outside this small technical flaw, though, you'd probably find some inspiration in the course content, which is for advanced learners of German as a foreign language. They've included a lot of multimedia elements, movies, audio streaming and so on, and a lot of (vaguely) fun puzzles of the 'join the weird expression to the obsecure verb it sounds best with' variety.

    And do a bloody Japanese distance learning course for a reasonable price. No bugger on Earth offers one (except for Leeds or Sheffield or somewhere, who charge 1,000 pounds for it, which is a bit too much to pay for modest squiggle success). And when you've set it up - and it doesn't have to be technically complicated, a set of reading comprehension and modest writing practice exercises in unicode would be an excellent start - let me know... :-P

  153. A little software & a lot of interaction by lydic · · Score: 1

    Habing taken 4 years of Japanese and looking at a lot of online and computer based training tools, I have a gew observations. Are you planning on simply conversational Japanese or teaching the students to read (and possibly write) the language. The biggest problem for many latin based languages (English, SPanish, etc.) students in learning an Asian language it the new symbol set. This is where I found the computer based tools to be the most useful. Drilling the symbol sets for Hiragana, KataKana, and Kanji was something that I found was very helpful. As for the rest of it, a good well written set of textbooks, a knowledgable instructor, and lots of time to practice conversationally seemed to work best for me, and my class. The textbooks I used were BTW, Japanese for Busy People by The Association for Japanese Language Teaching (AJALT), along with audio & video tapes for support.

  154. Hire overseas conversation tutors to use Skype... by ivi · · Score: 1

    ... the idea is that not everybody would want
    to move to Japan for a year or so...

    Also, some can't get the work permit needed
    to allow them to work as tutors, eg, due to
    their age (only younger tutors get them).

    So, Skype is a great way to let small
    groups (or even one-on-one) tutoring
    sessions go forward, with student(s) &
    tutor in different lands.

    Saves travel $$$'s - both for the big
    airfare trips at the start & end of
    the contract -and- each working day.

    This might be a way for people with great
    first-language speakers of English, who
    happen to have a disability (eg, blind),
    to get into the work force without a lot
    of hoo-haw getting to Japan (or elsewhere).

    Here's a place where technology finally
    brings us benefits in the realm of tele-
    commuting.

    'bout time... ;-)

  155. What is this doing here? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A. Slashdot will give you very little of interest - you would be better off looking for a community of language educators.

    B. How is this news? How is it related to "Nerds"? Why does it matter?

  156. signs in every classroom by michaelbuddy · · Score: 1

    signs in every classroom

    "all your base are belong to us"

    --

    ...::----::...

    I am in no way affiliated with this sig.

  157. crap by vonFinkelstien · · Score: 1
    Don't you hate it when you hit the "submit" button instead of the "preview" button.

    Such is life.

  158. suggestions from an grade F student of Japanese by michaelbuddy · · Score: 1

    I think I walk the middle of the road when it comes to this subject. You need the technology available as a resource, which everyone who has commented positively has stated how they were successful with it. On the other side, it can hinder things and you could quickly waste your money. Make the technology an extra. Not a requirement. Don't demand using course software, just make the media files and testing etc available for those savvy enough to access it on your server.

    Invest in a japanese DVD collection, let it grow over time. DVD will give you the subtitle on / off option. Having 50- 100 Japanese DVD's to choose from in various genre's is a great resource.

    Here's something you should try. I know it would work awesome. Get a ton of markers and sticky labels. Label everything in the school with it's Japanes name, hiragana, katakana, kanji. Label a door, pencil, drinking fountain, ceiling, blackboard. you get the idea. Label EVERYTHING! New students will be exposed to it, and can associate the object with the words. a few months in, they will have it memorized. That's how those CD roms work, they show you objects and you pick from labels. Do it in real life.

    You gotta get Japanese TV. And Guess what? NHK, is Free. If you know what PBS is in America, it's the Japanese Equivalent. but it's way better. NHK can be recieved if you know how to get it.
    Buy one of these, and beam it into the school.
    http://www.gavilan.net/nhk.htm
    300 bucks, no monthly fees, all the worlds free TV, legal.
    You'll be recording shows, make them available in your library. Access to NHK is huge for students. And you'll save not having the cable bills.

    Start emailing some Japanese teachers at all universities you can think of, find the teachers emails on the schools' websitesite. Email the teacher about what book(s) they use for efficient language learning, Find the best ones. The best schools use the best books right?

    If you need a boatload of online resources, you can check out my bookmarks. I've been collecting the gems for a while now.
    http://smick.net/bookmarks/xbel.xml
    click on Japan and JAS links.

    Moodle is pretty awesome, I couldn't install it on my server, config problem, but it is really easy once installed. Create courses, create teachers, create tests. Best I've seen. Blackboard should be concerned. Moodle's better and Open source!

    email me at michaelbuddy 'A T' gmail.com if you want more suggestions, I'd love to know how things work out for you, and help if I can. I've got my own online japanese project I'm working on now.

    By the way, Do you know who Jim Breen is? Trust me, you will.

    --

    ...::----::...

    I am in no way affiliated with this sig.

  159. IBM with BOOK by chris_sawtell · · Score: 1

    It's Better Manually with Better Organized Optical Knowledge.

    Sorry but I agree with the other poster, it's a sunk cost.

    Unless you have in the upper tens of thousands of $$$ to spend on a full blown language lab, you'd be better off getting some decent books and recordings. Or more to the point, a well-trained teacher.

    My son's school has attempted a 'computer technology based education' and frankly it's a complete failure, & I'm hacked off with myself for being sucked in.

  160. Anime! by oxidas · · Score: 1

    Anime would be a great idea, since a lot of students of different age like anime... make them watch it and learn. It has a lot of useful frazes and it`s still fun

    1. Re:Anime! by oxidas · · Score: 1

      Oops, i meant phrases not frazes...

  161. Cool Japanese site by scubacuda · · Score: 1
    This is slightly off topic, but here's a cool site to add to your bookmarks: Rikai.com. Pop in the URL of a Japanese website, and when you wave your mouse over the kanji, it tells you the meaning/translation. Very cool!

  162. videos by WebTurtle · · Score: 1

    I think you should use the computers to enable the students to watch anime with or without subtitles, as well as movies. Also, more important than that, is having the students watch real dialogues that you have recorded. I mean, real situations where people are using Japanese in a store or at the post office or someplace. You have to get the feel for the language and how it's used, which happens more easily if you can see it in action in a native environment.

    --
    ------- "One of the joys of travel is visiting new towns and meeting new people." -- G. KHAN
  163. Do's and Dont's by japg1ish · · Score: 1

    I work for a large, multinational organisation which teaches English in every country of the world. My last posting invovled establishing a showpiece teaching centre in an Asian capital city with a fairly large budget to spend on ICT. This is how we spent the cash

    1) Interactive whiteboards in every classroom with good internet connectivity - we ripped out the old whiteboards to give the teachers no option but to use the new technology. IWBs are fantastic language teaching tools, allowing teachers to get away from their keyboard and mouse and work from where they are most comfortable, near the board. The wealth of authentic, real examples of language available via the Internet is endless: video, audio, flash-based animation, text, chat bots and simulated environments all act as valuable and authentic input into a lesson. This variety of input caters to different learning styles and unlike the low quality, pavlovian CD ROMs with their dull grammar exercises and inauthentic language, present real contexts for language work. Teachers kicked up a storm about the change at first but very quickly warmed to the creative possibilities invovled and made good use of other functionality - saving and reviewing board work, integrating sound and video seamlessly in their classes (without the usual TV, OHP, video recorder set up). Fabulous teaching tool
    2) We ditched the awful language lab in favour of sets of wireless laptop computers which could be wheeled from classroom to classroom, to allow for language work in pairs and groups. The work being done on screen which acted as a stimulus for oral communication and written practice in pairs and groups, could be pulled onto the IWBs and corrected on the spot. Fabulous.
    3) Moodle is very popular but the design of these sites leaves me cold. They look and feel like 'school' rather than feeling as is the participant is engaged in a real, communicative project. Students rarely manage to master all the features and simple act as forum fodder - that is to say, they are participants in a site, rather than the creators of it. This is very de-motivating. Personally think a well designed blog/community website, along the lines of Slashdot is a far better tool, which hands power over to the users (students)and leaves communication in their hands. A considerable body of research is emerging to support this feeling. The blog site was exceptionally 'sticky' especially when teachers uploaded board work from the lessons and used it for review at home and when students themselves cretaed stories and mini-projects online.
    d) don't invest in CD ROMs - I've rarely seen a goodone (except for dictionaries) and everything you need is already online.
    e) Provide a cafe style area for students to use those old PCs in - relax with a cup of coffee and complete tasks done in class.

    Just my thoughts.

  164. Their own lab by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Give 'em a bunch of passable machines, a room, a pile of Linux disks, and tell them that you need to have this, this, and this working at all times, but besides that it's theirs.

    This is actually very effective. The MIT Model Railroad Club essentially worked on this model. I learned computers in such a setting (actually in a company, but the same approach).

    Foreign language instruction requires talking and listening with people who are fluent. I don't know about the school culture in Japan, but in the US it's often killed even when such a person is there because the little creatures don't want to make mistakes in front of the other little creatures. It's hard to learn when the sharks smell blood in the water.

  165. Moodle; Japanese teaching by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've used moodle - I'm a first year CS student, and my school uses it. It's tolerably nice as an end user, but the teaching assistants complain about not being able to change due dates or maximum grades on it, etc.

    A fun little game for learning japanese is http://lrnj.com/lrnj - check it out. I rather like it.

  166. E-school project in Estonia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here, in Estonia, about 50 schools have started using a system called E-Kool [E-School]. Basically, it's online web-based system, where all the grades, timetables, homework & etc are held. All teachers, children and parents (at this moment, more than 40000 people)have accounts to log in. Best of all- logging in is not using passwords. People can log in via e-banking systems of 2 largest banks in Estonia and also with estonian electronic id card. The system is held in central servers and one log-in is sufficient for one person - while in the system, a person can switch roles (for example, if he/she is a teacher in school X and parent of a child in school Y). At this point, users are happy with this technological iprovement and best of all - it gives parents the possibility to observe the results of their children and so the results are also growing.
    So why not implement something similar?

  167. I found videos helpful by superflippy · · Score: 1

    When I was learning Japanese, I found watching Japanese TV shows a fun way to learn new vocabulary words in context, much better than listening to fusty old language lab tapes. Plus, it made me feel a little more connected to the culture.

    Perhaps you can set up a video server for the school, or even just start with a DVD collection.

    --
    Your fantasies contain the seeds of important concepts.
  168. Smart by Ch3schir3 · · Score: 1

    An immeasurably helpful tool that we use at the Army's Defense Language Institute in Monterey, California is a combination of Smart boards and all of our books in PDF/WAV format. The smart boards are projected on using any model projector you want, allowing for cheap or high end purchases, and they basically act as a giant tablet interface hanging on your wall! The students and teachers can draw on the actual screen, interact with whatever you want, etc. Projectors have always been useful in school but its a one-way medium by itself. With these smart boards, you are allowed an entirely different environment than just straight projectors. We absolutely NEEDED high speed internet for use on language sites and native sites in the target language. A good DVD collection in the target language is a must as well. With the projectors, it becomes easy to share a foreign film with an entire class. Our classes were only 10 people each, in 3 classes per team. When we did labs, all 30 of us would gather in labs that had 30 computers with special audio equipment connected to the teachers computer, which the teacher could setup to connect any small groups of students together with the headphones, so they could carry on conversations together without the need to worry about conversations overlapping, or the teacher could take full control over all 30 computers and deliver video control as well, allowing for movies, website demonstrations, etc. If you cant afford the Smart boards, this setup is just as good, however you have to consider the desk space required for all those computers! For home use, we were all issued MP3 cd players, and 8 cds with all the sound files required for the workbooks we had. Originally we used hand held tape recorders for home language practice, and we would bring our activities in for the teacher to grade in the morning. If you want to go more high tech, obviously you could use mini digital voice recorders. I'm sure some of these ideas were mentioned in other posts but I posted all of this to say it actually works at a language school, and its the language school that the military uses to train their linguists.

  169. Technology = Evil (in Languages) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wouldn't use any technology for teaching.

    People think that Babelfish and so on are flawless translators, however in my experience, they are VERY bad at translating. Babelfish and other on-line dictionaries, and even bilingual dictionaries, cannot translate languages. This is because it is impossible to seperate culture from language. You can find examples of this all over the world... such as signs that says "All Costomers Executed Promptly." The verb "to execute" has ambigous conatations - in one case, it can mean to kill as punishment, but in another case, it would be more like to service.

    Since most bilingual translator services do not think of these multiple connotations, you will get many errors like this. Also, autotranslation usually cannot translate idioms, or idiomatic espressions. If you were to say "let's hit the road" in another language, people would probably think you're insane. However, in English, it means "let's leave." Autotranslation does not correct these, and so you can run into a lot of problems.

    Basically, you could sum it up like this: Words in other languages are used differently than in English.

    Now, that's all from a linguistic viewpoint. If you want to use electronic devices to teach about Japanese culture, then by all means, go ahead. However, technology does not belong in the teaching of languages.

  170. Tools I have used by skovtop.net · · Score: 1
    I have been to the Defence Language Institute, where I was taking classes in Arabic. We had MP3 players issued to us, with listening drills, vocab pronunciation, and a little real world material (radio ads, etc from target language countries). We only did 1 hour a day in the old style labs (tapes and headphones), and 1 hour a week in the computer labs. The computers had custom software that allowed us to play memory or hangman like games in the target language, or surf to arabic websites. The last piece of tech that we used was the SmartBoard system. This was nice because you could easily capture and print notes, make little learning games by dragging words around as objects to form phrases, and it did not leave dry erase ink on your hands if you touched the board. Some classes in other languages got laptops issued. That might be a little spendy, but you could offer online tutoring, set the DVD drives to region 2 and have a video library for them to check out from, even have an ftp site where they could upload assignments, if you like the idea of a paperless school.

    I know some people here know more about this topic than myself, but I can say that there is a high success rate at this school, and they teach about as fast as possible (Arabic fluency is achieved in 63 weeks of class). But I feel that too much tech will drown the basics out.

    And I agree with the poster that said class size is important. 1:12 ratio is a good goal imo. Not too many to have people left out, but big enough to have variety is speaking partners for the students.

  171. IPA + verbal and written repetition by Thomas_CK · · Score: 1

    If you are unfamiliar with IPA it stands for International Phonetic Alphabet [or Association]. Oriental phonetics are quite different from English, and having something that shows you where the tongue is placed could be a helpful start. Here's is a web-site on that IPA: http://www.uta.fi/~ccjapu/Handson2.html

    Web-cams can be useful for conversation, so can using Tony Buzan "Mind Mapping" software - which can just as easily be done on paper. People learn in different styles. You might want to read a few books for ideas: Barry Farber "How to Learn Any Language", and Harry Lorayne "The Memory Book" which (combine with mind mapping) can be a cleaver learning tool.

  172. Not Moogle ... you mean Moodle by Rewd · · Score: 1

    Moodle is at http://moodle.org/