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What's Next For Google?

j_heisenberg writes "Technology Review has a nice story about the coming MS-Google showdown. I like especially the data comparison for different media on page 2 concerning data content."

213 comments

  1. King by someonewhois · · Score: 1, Redundant

    We all know Google is king, don't we? Who's gonna beat them, MSN? When you think about it, anything Google does is going to be amazing, even if it's been done before.

    1. Re:King by RealityMogul · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yahoo is beating them right now in terms of appropriate search results, as well as faster crawling and indexing.

    2. Re:King by RealityMogul · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Just to clarify, I run a high school alumni site for my old school. I'm not posting the name here cause the site is "bandwidth-challenged".

      The url is [smalltown]alumni.com, where [smalltown] is a unique name for a town. The title of the document is "[Small Town] Alumni", and the first H1 tag is "Welcome to the [Small Town] Alumni Website". Despite this, if you enter Small Town Alumni in Google (without quotes), my site comes up 7th. With quotes, my site is still 3rd. The one and only site that links to mine is listed first in the search results, and that site happens to be the school districts website. The other 5 that are before me are a link to reunion.com, a cache of the school districts websitesite, and a couple news sites related to schools.

      All of those sites only have the [Small Town] text in their site, with the exception of the school districts site, who's link text is "[Small Town] Alumni".

      For comparison, entering [Small Town] Alumni into Yahoo, with or without quotes, lists my site first.

    3. Re:King by Handpaper · · Score: 2, Informative
      This is not surprising, and is caused by PageRank. Basically, the school district's website will be first because more sites/pages link to it than link to you.
      Try this Google search for my brother's band (see sig)
      It's taken quite some time and the placing of links on as many relevant sites as possible to achieve second ranking. The problem is that all the 'Independent Music' sites that mention Ahymsa have much more 'Google Juice' viz, they are linked to by many more other sites/pages than the Ahymsa site itself.
      The solution is to get a link to Ahymsa.co.uk from every 'High Juice' site that mentions it, boosting Ahymsa's reputation by having sites, which themselves are trusted/linked to, link to it.
      So why isn't Ahymsa.co.uk the top result?
      I can't get a link onto this page because it's an internal search result (and it's horribly out of date). Given time, it will disappear, and Ahymsa.co.uk will be back on top.

      In summary, remember how Google works, and work with it. How about getting the Alumni of your Small Town to link to the association's site from their own personal or business sites?

      Oh, the irony of my .sig (Slashdot has Google Juice coming out of its ears)

    4. Re:King by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google reads Slashdot's static pages, which don't have users' signatures in them.

    5. Re:King by jericho4.0 · · Score: 1
      Like the post from Handpaper points out, this is the expected behaviour. And it's just that predictability that make google so good. A truly unique string of characters, in quotes, will return one page only.

      --
      "A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
    6. Re:King by bedessen · · Score: 1

      Actually slashdot doesn't have as much google juice as you might think. Try installing the Firefox extention that displays the page rank of each page down in the corner of the browser. Most of slashdot pages are PR 2 or3, while others aren't even ranked (usually the more obscure sections, bsd.slashdot developers.slashdot etc.) The main page is only PR 5. In comparison a dinky little FAQ site I run is PR 8 just because various sites point to it. However I can damn well assure you that there are more inbound links from high PR sites to slashdot than to my FAQ page, so it is NOT just a matter of the number of links and the PR of the linking sites.

      Google is full of a lot of really bright people and I think they figured out about 6 years ago that sites that are overflowing with links (like slashdot with its thousands of pages each with links to various random shit in stories, posts, sigs, etc.) should be trusted less than more normal sites. This has got to dilute its PR.

    7. Re:King by lew3004 · · Score: 1

      So I guess you live in a small town. Sheesh.

      --
      I still can't get the screen shots of Castle Wolfenstein for the Apple IIe out of my head.
  2. What's next you ask? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Global domination!!

    AHHH!!!!!

    1. Re:What's next you ask? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 4, Funny

      "What are we going to do today, Brin?"

      "Same thing we always do, Larry ... try and take over the world!"

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    2. Re:What's next you ask? by WebCrapper · · Score: 1

      Where are my damn mod points when I need 'em!?!

    3. Re:What's next you ask? by djward · · Score: 1

      So THAT's the deal with the middle O in "Google" being a gold ring...

    4. Re:What's next you ask? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ix-nay on the ings-ray!

  3. Logo/symbol search. by irc.goatse.cx+troll · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It would be nice to have a simple MS-Paint like interface to sketch a little symbol (like the contamination sign, or some more obscure wiccan symbol) and have google return both definitions, and better images.

    --
    Pain lasts, kid. Its how you know you're alive. Sometimes I think this growing up thing is just pain management-TheMaxx
    1. Re:Logo/symbol search. by savagedome · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      sketch a little symbol (like the contamination sign, or some more obscure wiccan symbol)

      And then I saw your user id...

    2. Re:Logo/symbol search. by JPriest · · Score: 1

      It's not the size of the UID that counts, it's how you use it.

      --
      Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
    3. Re:Logo/symbol search. by SirTalon42 · · Score: 1

      I think he meant the name "irc.goatse.cx troll", not the number.

    4. Re:Logo/symbol search. by handslikesnakes · · Score: 1
  4. Google is more than a search engine... by mOoZik · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's a way of life! But seriously, I don't think anyone - at least in the short term - can keep stride with Google. They are constantly upgrading their traditional services - search, Usenet archive, etc. - while at the same time implementing incredible additions, most of which can be found in beta. They're not following: they're leading. Unless they completely ignore any unforeseen future trend, I suspect they will be as dominant in the search market as Microsoft has been in the OS & applications market. And Google deserves it.

    1. Re:Google is more than a search engine... by JustinXB · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm going to disagree. I think Google's web search engine has degraded as time has moved on. It seems I'm having to adventure further into the pages of results to get what I really want.

      There hasn't been any innovation at Google in a long time.

    2. Re:Google is more than a search engine... by menetto · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Just like in software applications, a monopoly is no good. People nowadays rely highly on search results by google, and if google can't find it, it doesn't exists. Sounds pretty dangerous to me. There have already been precedents of censoring data by google. Competition is good, also in the market of search engines. And I wouldn't forget MS, they also have the money and the knowledge to make an even more powerful search engine. And if they integrate it closely in Windows, its popularity will surely increase.

    3. Re:Google is more than a search engine... by Chatmag · · Score: 1

      As far as their Usenet Beta, there are a lot of people disgusted with how Google changed the look. I think it compels people without a news reader to sign up for one, instead of going through Google Groups.

      --
      Pete Carr Owner Chatmag.com
    4. Re:Google is more than a search engine... by Spellbinder · · Score: 2, Insightful

      the web grows larger and larger
      so it is just natural that you have more results
      but there is no search engine not affected by this
      what i really would like is faster updating of the results

      --


      stop supporting microsoft with pirating their software!!!!!
    5. Re:Google is more than a search engine... by Stalks · · Score: 1

      what i really would like is faster updating of the results Hear hear. The results of most sites on google are cached and indexed from up to a month ago, as I think google update only once a month. Lets not go to the extravagant refreshing of pages as MSN does (my tiny personal site gets 100s of 'msnbot' clicks a day), but once a day would be nice, if possible.

    6. Re:Google is more than a search engine... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      screw google, whenever I do a search I get links to other search engines and mock up websites. i changed my homepage link to yahoo.

    7. Re:Google is more than a search engine... by digitalchinky · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I think the bottom dwelling scum of the internet, that being spammers and the like, are just figuring out better methods of seeding the search engines with their crap.

      I locked my cellphone, forgot the pin number, so I thought I'd search the net for some method to generate the PUK code. I didn't begin to find anything near useful until clicking way beyond page 20 or so.

      I guess it might be the search terms used as well - how do you search for something when you are not quite sure of the 'current slang' terminology for it.

      Know what you want, just no idea how to say it.

    8. Re:Google is more than a search engine... by JustinXB · · Score: 1

      Google has a lot of computing power but not enough to rebuild the link graph daily for 8 billion pages.

    9. Re:Google is more than a search engine... by bird603568 · · Score: 0

      true but i think for the only reason is there is so many more pages then say a year ago. the results are also tainted with algorthm "bugs" that are/used to be know. i dont know if they still exist.

    10. Re:Google is more than a search engine... by duffbeer703 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      They are constantly upgrading their traditional services - search, Usenet archive, etc.

      Yeah, that new Google Groups is a real great improvement.

      Google's best years from a technical & public service point of view are well behind them. Now its time for them to squeeze as much cash as possible.

      --
      Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
    11. Re:Google is more than a search engine... by brad3378 · · Score: 1

      There hasn't been any innovation at Google in a long time.

      I have to strongly disagree.
      Have you tried www.froogle.com ?
      How about the google image search?
      They've always got something big going on at google!
      I can't wait to see their next new big thing.

      --

    12. Re:Google is more than a search engine... by JustinXB · · Score: 1

      You know how old that stuff is? Very old. Moreover, it's not innovation! It was done to death before Google had it.

    13. Re:Google is more than a search engine... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      thats 5,396,586 Million terabytes of unsearched data

    14. Re:Google is more than a search engine... by Fragglebabe · · Score: 1

      There hasn't been any innovation at Google in a long time.

      I don't understand how you can say that. Have you heard about Gmail? I know it's only in beta at the moment, but it's the most innovative webmail i've ever come across. When it comes out of beta, hotmail and the like will be left eating Gmail's dust. And what about Froogle? or the updates on the main search facility and the image search facility? There are plenty of innovations happening at Google, all the time, and your statement shows a lack of research and appreciation for their work.

      --
      Insane people are always sure they are fine. It is only the sane people who are willing to admit that they are crazy.
    15. Re:Google is more than a search engine... by Tim+Browse · · Score: 1
      Google's best years from a technical & public service point of view are well behind them

      They probably still know to preview before posting, though.

    16. Re:Google is more than a search engine... by Spellbinder · · Score: 1

      true true
      but what about some serverside plugin on the webserver getting google info about any new content??
      maybe even a program that you can run on your client after a you made a change to your site / blog / whatever??

      --


      stop supporting microsoft with pirating their software!!!!!
    17. Re:Google is more than a search engine... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I definitely (definately?) think the new groups is a total let-down.

      (a) Wasted screen real estate

      (b) search for groups degraded: can't click on parent group (to see all children)

      (c) Less Results per page.

      Only good feature: active older topics.

      Why did they do it? Maybe groups wasn't making any? It showed their power on Usenet history. Maybe Usenet is unimportant. IMHO, it is good though for searching stuff, like getting answers to newbie q's, tweaks, short hints on programming languages. Actually you can use it as an answering tool for a variety of stuff, e.g. when to sow your lawn, is the Poincare Conjecture solved etc.

      So now Google the yes-goods (=no-evils) has the tap for all that info.

    18. Re:Google is more than a search engine... by generic-man · · Score: 1

      I liked Froogle the first time around, when it was called Yahoo! Shopping. (There are lots of other sites that do the same thing, too.)

      Google Image Search is nothing unique, and it often fails on anything more complex than a person's name.

      If Google can't come up with anything better than Yet Another Web Mail Service and Yet Another Social Networking Site, they'll teeter dangerously over the cliff of irrelevancy in 2005. It's hard to get revved up over yet more mergers and acquisitions, an amazingly-inflated stock price, and ugly downgrades with a "BETA" logo slapped on top.

      --
      For more information, click here.
    19. Re:Google is more than a search engine... by JustinXB · · Score: 1

      Tell me, how is Gmail innovative? Sure, it has a gigabyte of space, but that's not really innovative. Moreover, Froogle isn't innovative. There was sites doing that long before Google. The main search engine hasn't been updated in awhile -- or at least it doesn't show since the results have been degrading -- and, if it has, it certainly wasn't innovative. Nor was the image search engine.

      Sorry I don't buy into all the Google hype and see it for what it really is.

    20. Re:Google is more than a search engine... by JustinXB · · Score: 1

      But those pages have to be ranked via Pagerank before they can show up on the search engine. This means reanalyzing the entire link graph. They could cheat it a bit by making a blog-only search engine and thus blog-only link graph. But that's what we have Technorati for.

    21. Re:Google is more than a search engine... by Fragglebabe · · Score: 1

      It's not the GB of space that makes it innovative. I agree with you there. But it is the other touches that makes it innovative, because no other webmail provider has them.

      It organises messages with the same subject line into "conversations", which gives an easy access to all of the emails on a certain topic. You can search your inbox, so that you can find something quickly in the vast plethora of messages you may have. It's spam filters are better than any i've come across, seeing as i haven't had one spam message in the 6 months i've had the account. It uses labels instead of folders, so that you can put your messages into more than one category at a time, should you so desire.

      You can critise Gmail all you want, but it really just shows that you don't appreciate the finer points of its coding, and their efforts to improve the webmail experience for its users. IMO, it's not the space that makes it innovative, but the details, just as with anything in this life. Films, architechture, novels - your experience of them is better if you can appreciate the details.

      --
      Insane people are always sure they are fine. It is only the sane people who are willing to admit that they are crazy.
    22. Re:Google is more than a search engine... by frugle · · Score: 1

      > Have you tried www.froogle.com ?

      Kelkoo has been doing this since 2000. What makes google's version special?

      > How about the google image search?

      yahoo VIDEO search is a little more innovative than just pictures.

      > I can't wait to see their next new big thing.

      Look elsewhere first.

      --
      http://www.frugle.co.uk/
    23. Re:Google is more than a search engine... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So it does exactly the same thing that Opera M2 has done for years: viewing threads easily, finding spam, organizing mail, etc., except that you have to log on to a JavaScript-laden page to actually do anything.

      Gmail is a great webmail service, but it too is nothing new.

    24. Re:Google is more than a search engine... by JustinXB · · Score: 1

      The anonymous poster pretty much summed it up: It's not innovation. It has been done before. As for me not appreciating their code; Why should I?

      By the way, I use Gmail.

    25. Re:Google is more than a search engine... by theApolloProject · · Score: 1

      They are certainly competing, yes. But Google doesn't have as much "product" to offer. Their search may be ingrained in all of us and they may have had a great IPO, but I don't know how they'll hold up. Don't get me wrong; I love Google. They're great, and I'm sure they'll continue to expand the information market. But AdWords and other ad-generated revenue can only take a company so far. They must continue to expand well beyond their current realm to find additional revenue and if they can do so, I'm sure they'll do it well. If they don't I think they'll hit a sort of "revenue cap" where the market won't support a giant like MS with ad delivery as income.

    26. Re:Google is more than a search engine... by burns210 · · Score: 1

      Metadata/Google update-discovery APIs would be cool. But not for the entire web. Not yet. Google's ability to update its search as the sites in question are updated would be great.

      What if they offered it to only uber-popular sites. In the same way google's web ads will advertise for themselves on sites that get more than X hits a month(/. is one of them), That criteria could be used to flag sites that get updated. (/. Time, CNN, etc).

      Updating and improving their spider is a given. I think they really just need to do a regular (weekly or monthly, i don't care) of Images as well. That index hasn't been updated in months, year the web index is updated monthly and recently doubled its index size!

    27. Re:Google is more than a search engine... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More Than a Search Engine...

      Isn't that a Boston song?

    28. Re:Google is more than a search engine... by JustinXB · · Score: 1

      One site or 1 million sites: They'd have to reanalyze the entire link graph anyway.

    29. Re:Google is more than a search engine... by bedessen · · Score: 1

      Google should add two simple options (check-boxes) to its search. "Omit blogs" and "Omit commerce sites". Those two options, if they could be cleanly implemented, would improve the search results enormously. And they wouldn't even have to be perfect, it would be fine if a blog-filtered search still had some blog results, or a commerce-filtered search still had some commerce related sites in it. Heck, just reduce them by a third or half and it would still help a lot.

    30. Re:Google is more than a search engine... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have thought about this issue for sometime. There is a big diffrence between problems facing M$ now and may be back in 1995. In 1995, the number of PC out there was neglegible compared to what was sold after that. M$ had the luxury of bundling. Currently, their sale for the next 5 to 10 years is insignificant compared with the installed base. They are going to have a hard time reaching the joe users who are their current daring and that is why bundling search with the OS isn't going to be effective today as it was in 1995. I have to admit though that the fact IE redirect user to MSN can be problematic, but that leave most of the search functionality on the web where they don't have dorminance. It will be interesting to watch how this turn out. There other problem is lack of focus. They are behind technology in every issue. Window is not yet 64 bit aware, IE is obsolete, google is eating their lunch. It is unlikely they will be able to execute flawlessly on all those fields. As long as Google maintain the innovation, M$ has too many problems at hand to even be a threat. I think a more problematic threat is yahoo, who i despise for not supporting mozilla well until google because a big problem for them. As for changing doc and exel format, that guy is an idiot. Changing format would not be taken well be M$ word users, so it is counterintuitive . The main problem may be avilon, but hopefully, firefox will take care of that.

    31. Re:Google is more than a search engine... by bbbbblustery · · Score: 0

      -noblog
      to omit blogs

    32. Re:Google is more than a search engine... by antic · · Score: 1

      What about "omit genealogy sites"??

      My main gripe is the time taken for a link to be added. I submitted a client of mine 6 weeks ago, and there's been no sign of them in the results since. Quite frustrating!

      --
      'Thats they exact same thing a banana wrench monkey.'
  5. MSN can try, but MSN will fail... by agraupe · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The only people who don't use google are those who haven't seen its full power. Take, for example, my father. He used any search engine, but usually MSN. Then one day he came to me, saying "What is this song called?" referring to a song he knew a few words to. I said calmly, "Go to google, and type the lyrics in quotation marks, and you will find the answer." It worked exactly the way I had said, and now he only uses google. And looks down at MSN.

    1. Re:MSN can try, but MSN will fail... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You're ignoring that Microsoft can push their search engine via Longhorn.

    2. Re:MSN can try, but MSN will fail... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and he is ignoring that msn has the exact same features, the beta giving me better results than google too

    3. Re:MSN can try, but MSN will fail... by Moderator · · Score: 0

      Um, that works for any search engine. I've been using Google for at least four years, and am now giving the MSN Search Beta a legit chance. I set a Mozilla keyword 'msn' so that I can do a quick search in the URL bar, and everything's great. A little competition never hurt anything I suppose, and as long as I haven't lost anything in the process (in this case, search results), it's always good to try something new.

      Microsoft's really got a good search engine. I think the only real chance they have of overthrowing Google, however, is by making it the default engine in their browser, for the simple reason that it's a lot easier to type google.com as opposed to search.msn.com.

      --
      The World is Yours.
    4. Re:MSN can try, but MSN will fail... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      msn can do the same exact thing...

  6. Next Up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How about fixing your desktop search tool?

    I'm serious. The MSN search tool is faster, offers more options and has a better UI. For example, with the MSN tool I can select specifically which folders to include and exclude from the indexing. I cannot believe Google fails to offer this option. And the UI... The MSN UI looks like a browser, but it's a rich client with far more powerful and just plain pretty controls.

    I like you google, but you are getting your ass kicked. Get back to work!

  7. I prediect ... by TheLoneCabbage · · Score: 4, Funny

    I predict a resounding win for Google!

    Of course I also predicted that DOS would beet windows.... I meen realy, who would want to waste 90% of their machine to just make things look pretty?

    1. Re:I prediect ... by JustinXB · · Score: 2, Funny

      The same 90% who know how to spell "really" and "beat".

    2. Re:I prediect ... by kaleco · · Score: 1

      Noone would want to use their machine resources to make things pretty. That's why Windows is so popular =)

      --
      Prosperity is only an instrument to be used, not a deity to be worshipped. Calvin Coolidge
    3. Re:I prediect ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because it's hideous, that is?

    4. Re:I prediect ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Win2k, 3k I can handle without using the default theme. But XP without classic mode looks like some sort of fisher price my first windows, it's hideous.

    5. Re:I prediect ... by Goalie_Ca · · Score: 1

      Who would want to waste 90% of their bandwidth just to make things look pretty. (well, i think google looks nicer anyways!)

      --

      ----
      Go canucks, habs, and sens!
    6. Re:I prediect ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And "mean".

    7. Re:I prediect ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >DOS would beet windows
      Learn how to spell, you fucking moron...

      beet (bt) n. 1. A biennial Eurasian plant (Beta vulgaris) grown as a crop plant for the edible roots and leaves. 2. The swollen root of this plant eaten as a vegetable, typically having reddish flesh. 3. The sugar beet. [Middle English bete, from Old English bte, from Latin bta.]

    8. Re:I prediect ... by Captain_Chaos · · Score: 1

      You should bring your keyboard back to the dealer, it seems to be changing random letters to e's.

    9. Re:I prediect ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And "predict".

    10. Re:I prediect ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should take your keyboard back as well as it seems to be substituting "bring" for "take".

  8. Instant Messaging by onyxruby · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm still waiting for the Google instant messaging client that will link right Gmail. It strikes me as the one truely obvious thing that Google hasn't done yet.

    1. Re:Instant Messaging by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Funny, it strikes me as something they shouldn't do. It has nothing to do with searching, for one. It'll be hard to add ads to instant messaging when so many other services don't. And so on.

      Seems like a very bad move for Google.

    2. Re:Instant Messaging by sporty · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Google is in the buisness of managing information. Email is a good problem for google, as finding old email, organization and spam filtering is all about information handling. IMs, not so much. I don't think it's the next logical step.

      --

      -
      ping -f 255.255.255.255 # if only

    3. Re:Instant Messaging by onyxruby · · Score: 1
      Good points, thought about them and had a couple of thoughts.

      Their desktop tool records all kinds of past information, their email is intended to be kept for a significant amount of time. It only seems natural to have an im client that could record your conversations and be accessible through gmail. Use gmail to handle the contacts and to search past conversations.

      Many people already record their im sessions anyways. When you consider the growth of instant message against email, esp in countries like South Korea where email is something "old people" use, it's the natural growth opportunity. They could make a fortune having real time ads for britney or whatever else.

      Besides, who says you can't have unobtusive ads that reflects the topic at hand? It's googles ability to have unobtrusive ads that has much to do with their success as their search engine itself.

    4. Re:Instant Messaging by emarkp · · Score: 3, Interesting
      What and IM isn't information? Corporate IM is just like short memos and phone messages. I think even the non-business type would like the ability to archive and search IM conversations.

      I know I would. Not being tied down to an OS or hardware architecture would be a bonus as well.

    5. Re:Instant Messaging by rtt · · Score: 1

      I think it is the next logical step. I use Google's Desktop Search exclusively to index my conversations so I can search through them.

      If I could store my conversations on Google's servers then I'd be sorted (excuse the pun ;-)) - no chance of losing my conversations to hardware failiures or other such disasters that I may somehow encounter.

    6. Re:Instant Messaging by generic-man · · Score: 1

      IM would be a fantastic win for Google. Imagine being able to organize conversations by both email and IM to the same person.

      People will let Google serve them contextual ads based on IM. Remember all the outrage about contextual ads in email? Remember how Google made no changes to their service to deal with that outrage?

      --
      For more information, click here.
    7. Re:Instant Messaging by sporty · · Score: 1

      Doesn't google desktop already do this?

      --

      -
      ping -f 255.255.255.255 # if only

    8. Re:Instant Messaging by sean23007 · · Score: 1

      I don't agree. Haven't you ever wanted to look back through your logs of old IM conversations for an exchange you had with someone, or an idea you were talking about once? I make it a point to always turn on logging in Gaim or Adium or whatever client I'm using, but when you change machines or operating systems, your data doesn't follow you. It's another thing you have to back up, and it's really easy to forget to bring that data with you. I can't tell you how much data I've lost just because of that. If Google were to release an IM client that parsed your IMs just like your emails, saved all your conversations on their servers, and opened them to searching from any system or computer, that would certainly fall within their area of expertise and their business plan. I'm sure they could find a way to display tasteful Googleads on the side/top of your IM client which are relevant to your conversation, much like Gmail.

      --

      Lack of eloquence does not denote lack of intelligence, though they often coincide.
    9. Re:Instant Messaging by zachthemagictaco · · Score: 1

      Just because Google is primarily a search company doesn't mean that everything they do has to be related to information. Sure, Google's "excuse" for creating Gmail was because "e-mail is an important way of accessing information for many people," which is not necessarily untrue, but the main reason, I perceive, is just to provide a cool new feature for the use of the public. Thus, I believe that instant messaging would be a logical next step. It's cool, it's feature-y, and it will help Google compete with MSN, Yahool, and AOL, all of which already have popular instant messaging services. None of them are all that great, or as good as a Google IM service could be.

    10. Re:Instant Messaging by burns210 · · Score: 1

      I think integration with Gmail contacts and integration with Desktop Search for IM logs would be very useful, personally.

      Plus. In the same way iChat is an official AIM-compatible client, Gtalk(or whatever) would be as well. Along with Jabber support. It would also be able to do a corporate intranet-only chat... And somehow integrate with Google's corporate appliance search server.

    11. Re:Instant Messaging by kezze · · Score: 1

      And Google could let their GoogleIM users chat with users of other networks such as MSN's, AOL's and so forth. After each message, they could append:
      "\nThis instant message was sent via GoogleIM. To avoid seeing this very annoying message, download GoogleIM at http://im.google.com".
      Everybody would love it.

  9. On my Linux Box by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The MS desktop search feature doesn't seem to work.

    What am I doing wrong?

    1. Re:On my Linux Box by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You only made one big mistake. You installed Linux.

    2. Re:On my Linux Box by afd8856 · · Score: 1

      On my linux box my google desktop search doesn't work either.

      I would speak favorably of MSN search if it would work on my computer, but it has some bugs and keeps craping with some error numbers. So, for me at least, Google desktop search works while MSN doesn't.

      --
      I'll do the stupid thing first and then you shy people follow...
    3. Re:On my Linux Box by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >craping with some...
      fucking opinionated /.ers not knowing how to spell...

      crape (krp) n. 1. See crepe. 2. A black band worn, as on the sleeve, as a sign of mourning. Also called crepe. --crape tr.v. craped, craping, crapes. To cover or drape with or as if with crape. [Alteration of French crêpe. See CREPE.]

    4. Re:On my Linux Box by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We don't need no stinking wysiwyg bell-and-whistle desktop search. As I'm sure other /. ers have posted this:

      $find / > ~/index.txt
      $grep [yoursearch] /~index.txt

      Then you can make the frontend as purty as you want.

  10. Re:tnb niggermania.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ah, but you believe that posting this kind comment is normal... Know in deep in your heart that you are just a troll, and not a good one, either.

  11. Google and Yahoo duopoly by Prince+Vegeta+SSJ4 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    This competition has resulted in a Google and Yahoo duopoly.

    I used to experiment with different search engines back in the day, From Infoseek, Excite, Yahoo, Webcrawler, HotBot (does this one really count?), etc.

    After I stumbled on to Google via some friends at Georgia Tech, never looked back. I try one or two now, on occasion, but can they really say duopoly? Yahoo may have members et al, but for searching, nothing I've tried comes close to Google yet.

  12. Google will get reactive at some point by Ars-Fartsica · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The ad market for adsesne will eventually dry up, either through click fraud or through a recession that kills ad spending. As Yahoo figured out in 2000, ad spending is the first thing to go when times get tight...which invariably leads to calls for revenue diversification. Google will end up going the Yahoo route of charging fees for some services once they hit this patch. When you have to report revenue every quarter, telling investors to hold on until ad spending comes back just doesn't cut it.

    1. Re:Google will get reactive at some point by Rakishi · · Score: 0

      Except we are basically in a recession right now or rather just coming out of one, Yahoo was at the height of an expansion. There is a difference.

    2. Re:Google will get reactive at some point by Ars-Fartsica · · Score: 2

      No a recession is clearly defined as two consecutive quarters of negative growth. That has not happened since 2000.

    3. Re:Google will get reactive at some point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The ad market for adsesne will eventually dry up, either through click fraud

      Google is a technology company that hires armies of problem solvers to chew up problems like this and spit them out accordingly as situations arise.

      or through a recession that kills ad spending.

      The marketing industry thrived even in the wake of the Great Depression. (That's how Multi-Level Marketing was born) It never fails to reinvent itself because no matter what the circumstances there is always some resource in demand.

    4. Re:Google will get reactive at some point by gregwbrooks · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I agree with your premise that the business cycle and the realities of public ownership will mean some sort of reactivity at Google. However, I think your analysis of their ad revenue's vulnerability is incorrect.

      Google's whole ad model is built around a simple, devastatingly effective concept: Advertisers only pay if there's a clickthrough. In a recession, when people are buying less overall, the clickthrough rates are likely going to go down.

      But -- and this is the big deal -- that will automatically reduce ad expenditures and it will do so in a fairly graceful way. This is a big, big contrast to the agency-driven, big-dollar buys a major advertiser would commit to on a network like Yahoo. Those purchases are much more likely to feel the effects of fast, pannicky spending reductions because the risk they represent is higher in terms of both dollars and questionable rate of return.

      Does Google get hurt in a recession? Yes. But I'd argue that they get hurt a lot less -- and with more of a predictable, linear response -- than Yahoo or other competitors.

      --


      "It was a summer's tale: Just a boy, his Linux, and a head full of dreams..."
  13. Yeah ... sure by mmThe1 · · Score: 1

    One potential problem point I see in most of the responses of "crowd" is:

    "$1 is big and monopolizes. They don't do free software. I hate them."
    "$2 is building applications to compete with $1. I support $2. I will think about $2's free software later."
    .
    .
    (couple of years later)
    "$2 has grown bigger and sell/distribute applications. They don't do free software. I get a strange feeling out of it."
    .
    .
    (some more time)
    "$2 is big and monopolizes. They don't do free software. I hate them."

    1. Re:Yeah ... sure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      care to give examples, or is it just usual karma slashwhoring ?

  14. Zoogle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Seach for animals and related information. Thx.

    1. Re:Zoogle by Chatmag · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Moogle: Refined Zoogle search, concentrating on cows and related bovine topics.

      --
      Pete Carr Owner Chatmag.com
    2. Re:Zoogle by Jonboy+X · · Score: 1

      Next project: ogle.com, the porn search engine.

      --

      "In a 32-bit world, you're a 2-bit user. You've got your own newsgroup, alt.total.loser." -Weird Al
  15. Re:tnb niggermania.com by stephenMF · · Score: 1

    Maybe AC is making a point. Google allows you to find *anything*. Will MSN let you find this?

  16. 55 million unique floppies per year? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is this a joke or am I missing something? Floppies with 800TB and CDs with 1TB! They've gotta be kidding.
    I don't even remember the last time I saw a floppy.

  17. Re:Google is Doomed: Good Riddance by nkh · · Score: 1

    What a moronic troll. If you were really serious about what you said, you wouldn't have post it as an AC.

    I could troll the same and tell you that Microsoft is the "official" provider of spying-software used by the chinese government. This doesn't seems to disturb you...

    As for your representative who said that the company prefers Americans, that's the most stupid statement ever heard, because if you prefer Americans: STAY INSIDE THE USA! Don't try to go outside...

  18. Email and news services....following by Ars-Fartsica · · Score: 1

    I like Google too but come on, they are rolling out services other sites have had for years.

  19. a9 by Fuzzle · · Score: 1

    I think that Amazon a8 search is quite cool, and it comes with a link to it's crossplatform Firefox toolbar on the front page. It's cached searches and resizable image columns are quite cool. I don't use it more than google, but it could be a contender.

    1. Re:a9 by The+Cydonian · · Score: 1
      Ummm, A9 uses Google?

      Technically, not a contender currently, but could be if they start developing some algos out there.

    2. Re:a9 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that A9 itself uses google...

      A9.com is a powerful search engine, using web search and image search results enhanced by Google

      So I won't call it a "contender".

    3. Re:a9 by Fuzzle · · Score: 1

      That raises the question of whether or not the next "winner" will be because of the search tech, or the interface/options given. It's possible that some users will want the sleek, yet "feature rich" interface of a9. I'm not a regular user of it yet, but I'm willing to give it a chance.

  20. Marketing... by squisher · · Score: 2, Interesting

    what we all here at /. always forget is that the success of anything is not largely determined by the technical superiority. Who cares if google is better than anything else when noone knows? I personally think google is the best, that's why I never use any other engines but soooo many people don't know that, or don't know how to use google correctly.

    So, all MSN has to do is get enough people to use it, it does not matter how good it is and Microsoft is very good at that. Then they will get more ad-revenue and take that away from google. So while I very much agree with all the comments that google is improving itself and that it has so many services, it's page is lean and everything but unfortunately those are not the only factors that will decide success...

  21. GoogleGroups Debacle, A Sign Google Ain't The Same by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    The recent destruction of GoogleGroups and the excellent interface to usenet that it used to offer are a pretty clear indicator of where Google is heading. Just like Microsoft, they will continue to dominate some areas by virtue of mind share and momentum, but the glory days are over. I didn't know any geek that didnt admire google up till a couple of weeks ago; to a person, they are shifting persectives, and think google has lost it. Some day there will be books written about the changes now taking place at google; but at the moment all we outsiders can see are sign of confusion and general creepyness.

  22. stock price crash? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What's next? How about a stock price crash.
    Their main product is search. Search is easily to duplicate.

    The next logical thing is for other companies to produce similiar products to google's and watch Google's overvalued stock tumble back to earth.

  23. Investigative services by Ph33r+th3+g(O)at · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Google is in a unique position to sell information to:
    • copyright holders--can give up the hosts and posters about infringing software and cracks
    • government agencies and security-sensitive companies--queries by IP address correlated with ISP databases can provide a "database of intentions" helpful in vetting candidates for security clearances or ferreting out those potentially plotting crimes against the state
    • corporations--Google's massive index can help dig up parody sites, sucks sites, and other places where ordinary people "defame" corporations or brands by daring to tell the truth online.

    Summary--Google's best moneymaking potential is in the black helicopter arena, where their assets will blow away startups like BayTSP, Cyveillance, and Genuone despite the startups having had the first mover advantage.

    Yes, this doesn't square with "Don't be evil." Neither does helping the PRC subjagate its people by assisting with censorship. And a publically traded company, as any Cryptonomicon MBA here can tell you, cannot have the luxury of a conscience.

    --
    I too have felt the cold finger of injustice.
    1. Re:Investigative services by IO+ERROR · · Score: 1
      Cyveillance got themselves permanently blocked from any Web site I ever touch, for not obeying /robots.txt, making their requests way too fast, and pretending to be MSIE when it's obvious it's a robot.

      Google wouldn't dare explicitly move into this area, as it would kill whatever good karma they still have after going public. If they started selling data on who was searching for what, people would stop searching with them and start blocking their robots. It just wouldn't work.

      --
      How am I supposed to fit a pithy, relevant quote into 120 characters?
    2. Re:Investigative services by Ph33r+th3+g(O)at · · Score: 1

      I have similarly blocked Cyveillance and their ilk on my low volume site, but given Google's penetration in the search market, no one making money with their sites will dare to do the same against Google.

      --
      I too have felt the cold finger of injustice.
  24. MS vs. Google by tji · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Let me use my amazing visibility into the future to predict what will happen...

    Google will continue to innovate, developing new features, integrating new capabilities into the developing 'user portal' centered around GMail. They will continue to develope advanced ways to organize, search, and use huge amounts of data.

    Microsoft will wait to see what the users gravitate to the most, and will create a nearly identical version of the feature. They will extend it in a few minor ways to integrate more tightly with their operating systems. Since it will be in the OS by default, they will quickly gain a large market share.

    On a lesser note, other 'competitors' like Yahoo, will continue to innovate in areas of banner advertising, and flash advertisement integration. They will add new features only after Google releases products that make theirs look primitive by comparison.

    The only question my visions have not answered is: How large will Google have to become before slowing their innovation and playing it safe.

    1. Re:MS vs. Google by Helen+Keller · · Score: 1
      The only question my visions have not answered is: How large will Google have to become before slowing their innovation and playing it safe.
      sAFDaEven KHKJHKHIOHY KIUHKHKJhjhkHkjHuGYRSresYd.kashdhkjh I clahkhkjashkhkhKJHKJan see thatKHJKHKJHK it alKJHKHKJHKready is. JHGUYGJKBIUhkbKJHgiJHBHKJHn
      --
      Have you read my blog? Neither have I.
    2. Re:MS vs. Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What makes you think google is so great that they deserve your worship?

      Just curious.

    3. Re:MS vs. Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know you're karma-whoring, but really, where can you get all those "linux is the default" stuffs ? i want it really !

    4. Re:MS vs. Google by t_parker16 · · Score: 1

      "Google will continue to innovate ..."

      lets be frank here: google hasn't done anything innovative in 5 years. incremental improvement. tweak here and they, yes. but innovative? the biggest "innovation" was adsense, and that wasn't even theirs.

      "Microsoft will wait to see ..."

      clearly microsoft isn't waiting any longer. they're poised to do a netscape on google, which is what they should do of course ... put a search bar on the desktop, up at the top of internet explorer, and voila. netscape redux.

      "How large will Google have to become before slowing their innovation and playing it safe."

      there isn't a whole lot on the 'innovative' side at google that is going to keep them growing. look at google labs: c'mon, there's nothing killer there.

      google is not profitable simply as a search engine: their business model is one of an ad broker. if they extend that, serving context sensitive ads into other content, then they'll grow and eat into yahoo's business - which is one of being a content aggregator.

      anyway, that's my two cents: microsoft should be able to eat up part of google's search revenue. google should eat into yahoo's business by building on its business as ad broker.

      gmail, location-based searching, sms ... yawn.

    5. Re:MS vs. Google by danila · · Score: 1

      Google's GMail took a lot of features from good and innovative e-mail clients like Opera's M2. Yes, doing it in JavaScript was cool, but I don't think Google strives for "Master of Cool JavaScript Hacks" position. :)

      --
      Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
    6. Re:MS vs. Google by tji · · Score: 1

      I don't know what it takes to merit innovation in your book. But, to me GMail was a big innovation. Yes, there are other webmail services. I used Yahoo Mail for years, and they were happy to let it stay the same forever with no attempt to improve. It was only after GMail came on the scene that they increased their storage and added several usability features (but they are still not even close to GMail).

      That is what I see as the difference between innovators and complacent companies. Google continues to improve, tweak, and add features. Stagnant companies like MS and Yahoo only react to competitive threats.

      I think you're looking for something more in the revolutionary department if you don't think things like location based searches and gmail are innovations.

    7. Re:MS vs. Google by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

      Google IS paying it safe. It waits a lot of time before releasing anything, test stuff a lot and create several products before one of them is sucessfull, just like any serious big compani do.

  25. I know what should be next by stephenMF · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Getting rid of google-bombing search engine results within your search results! I don't even know what it's really called, but I think you'll know what I'm talking about. If MSN manages to do this, then I may just have to do the unthinkable.

    1. Re:I know what should be next by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They call their solution paid placement or something. Maybe google should do it too?

  26. more vs better vs profit by cinnamon+colbert · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Do 90% of users really need more information ? Most of my googlems (google problems) occur because I can't formulate the question properly - E.g., the other day I wanted to know what all the numbers on a plain old fashioned check are for; it took me 30 minutes, and I still never got an explanation of how the transit number ( the 3 part number upper right with a bar, not the aba number) works.
    So, rather then more info, we need the ever elusive electronic expert (or perhaps, starting in middle school, a class on searching - the most useful class i ever took in high school was typing).

    Another big problem is redundant pages, which would only be made worse by more info - already, google does a lousy job of filtering similar content; e.g., if you look for a laboratory protocol for, say, how to make PBS buffer (don't ask) you will get hundreds of redundant pages,of widely varying quality, many of which are straight copies (unattributed of course)

    My prediction: people were willing to pay experts (librarians, consultants) in the old analog digital days; they will pay for them again, once the model becomes clearer. I wd not be surprised if this is already happening on an ad hoc basis at the more savvy consulting, law and engineering firms - a full time search person is cost effective.
    Also, much of the technical web is proprietaty, for profit stuff - like the serious academic serial Journal of Colloid and Interface Science, several articles from this journal cost me (well my company) quite a lot. Of course, you can always postulate a major revolution in how this stuff gets publishec, but right now it is for profit.

  27. Next step for google by defrabelizer · · Score: 5, Interesting

    For those who are interested, there is a flash animation of the possible evolution of google. Its quite possible, also makes you think. http://oak.psych.gatech.edu/~epic/

    1. Re:Next step for google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Along with Googlezon, GooglePr0n is released providing a new revolution in customized pr0n.

  28. Don't waste your time reading it....Honest. by jfonseca · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This article is a collage of beaten subjects : possibilities of search, advertisement means money, and how Microsoft's Bill Gates will do anything to win this new war. It is SOOOO cliche it almost feels like someone paid for it.

    - Technology means money, cites Microsoft, Cisco, Intel and IBM. (We didn't know that.)

    - Those who prevail will have more chance to set the standard for the industry to follow. (This is news to me.)

    - Says search will go through email, PDF, and even phone conversations(whatever they mean by that, to me sounds like spook work). (WILL? It already does, AFAIK...)

    - Recruitment PR work included: says Google is great place to work at, allows pets, gives drinks, meals, massage and car wash (Who paid for this?).

    - Says Google is based on citations, tells love story of Brin and Page inventing PageRank in Standford PhD(which they didn't finish). (Who paid for this?)

    - Says advertising means money. (We didn't know that either.)

    - Says only a few will prevail.(That neither.)

    A strong contender for the christmas-weekend-cliche-of-the-year on Non News category.

    --
    Broken Hearts are for Assholes. - Frank Zappa
  29. Re:Poogle by Gi77+B4t35 · · Score: 0

    Into scat? What you want is Poogle.

  30. Re:more vs better vs profit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    haha.. you're a good laugh

  31. Re:Google is Doomed: Good Riddance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is that your come back... wow that was crappy.

  32. Agreed, GOOG crater inevitable by Ars-Fartsica · · Score: 1

    This isn't a reflection on their site, the entire NASDAQ is once again woefully out of line with reality. YHOO GOOG EBAY ASKJ etc are all looking at 50% sales in the next twenty four months.

  33. Re:GoogleGroups Debacle, A Sign Google Ain't The S by jfonseca · · Score: 1

    Perhaps it was a temporary destruction?

    Google Groups is still there but I had not checked earlier this week : http://groups-beta.google.com/

    Weird though it says BETA...hasn't this been out there forever now?

    --
    Broken Hearts are for Assholes. - Frank Zappa
  34. Searching beyond the PC and providing search APIs by roman_mir · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The author mentioned a few times that it would be important for search engine companies to think beyond the PC in their search infrastructure and that providing some form of APIs to the search engine would setup standards.

    I am not sure about the former but I do agree with the later. Thinking beyond the PC is too difficult, I think. If a tool can be connected to a computer and data can flow between the tool and the computer, then this tool becomes part of the computer. Mapping MP3 player just turns this player into another harddrive, so I am not sure what the author really meant, besides, we do not have our MP3 players on the web, so it would be a desktop search engine that would have to crawl the devices (like Google's desktop searching tool - bar.) So for now atleast, whatever the author meant by this is covered already.

    The search engine APIs is a more interesting subject. I suppose Google's desktop bar could be used by desktop applications for running searches from within, that's first.
    Developers already can tap into Google's search API (I tried it myself,) but as the author mentioned, these are limited to a thousand searches a day and to a very small set of utilities.

    I wonder if it would be possible for a search engine to provide a set of APIs with much more functionality than a simple search API. Incremental searching, time period based searching, topical searching, who knows what else.

    Any ideas what functions could be useful in such an API?

  35. Re:Google is Doomed: Good Riddance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or maybe US engineers are just crappy, have you actually seen the students in a good US engineering department: mostly Asian. You know why? Because unlike US parents their parents made them study, so they're not lazy bums. Also, Microsoft is outsourcing a lot.

  36. Whats next for Slashdot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or will it remain the same?

    1. Re:Whats next for Slashdot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slashdot 2014: Still uses badly written almost HTML 3.2 code. Still does not render in Firefox (version 5.1-rc1).

  37. sobriquets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thanks for expanding my vocabulary today :).

  38. A different story. by MikeyVB · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A web development company has a different view of the future showdown between Microsoft and Google. They "predict" it moving beyond the realm of search engines and into the realm of a total mainstream media takeover.

    They call it Epic Granted, it is a bit over dramatic, but it does make you think. Make sure you give yourself five minutes to view the whole thing.

  39. Google v. Microsoft Article by dingbat-from-hell · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Very interesting article, with many implications.

    From a business standpoint, Google will need a lot more resources to compete with MS. Swallowing Yahoo might not be enough. A consortium between Amazon, Google and Yahoo and a number of universities might still not be enough.

    Microsoft; "I spit on your meagre $2-12 billion."

    Since the point is winning an architecture standards 'war', the context for these standards needs to be defined first -or last as the case may be. Will these standards ultimately be commercial, governmental (international or national), military or none of the above? Microsoft with greater resources has the advantage of being able to hedge more alternatives.

    Microsoft's Windows vulnerabilities grafted onto entry into everyday technologies make the 'Y2K' scenarios a year by year (day by day) nightmare. I don't like the idea of a hacker using either Google or MSsearch to gain access to my thermostats or my refrigerator. Or my Slashdot password, either.

    If search is to be a $20-30 billion a year business, what will the computer/cellphone/intranet/PDA/various electronic device security business be worth?

    To paraphrase Eistein, 'I don't know how this architecture war will be fought, but the next one will be fought with pencil and paper.'

    1. Re:Google v. Microsoft Article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is what i thought. Buying competitors is one of the most bone headed moves companies make. Look at Boeing, they assumed that buying anything that make planes is the only way t remain competitive. Here it is even worse because redudancy if far higher. Google should concentrate on two things. First, they should concentrate on improving their search accuracy as much as they can. Second accumalate as much static information as they can ever come across. What i mean by static are things that wouldn't need human being for maintainace. Their workforce is too thin to compete against Yahoo in maintaining news. Things like satellite images, books, anything that would not require journalistic work would be a good idea. Then they should allow people to put as much content as possible on their infrustructure. The more information they hold, the more likely searches from their competitors will end up in their infrustructure. It also make it likely most of their users will find google indispensable.

  40. Re:more vs better vs profit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    E.g., the other day I wanted to know what all the numbers on a plain old fashioned check are for; it took me 30 minutes, and I still never got an explanation of how the transit number ( the 3 part number upper right with a bar, not the aba number) works.

    I actually found it right away. I think you are just lame at using google.

  41. Transcript by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


    Slashdot:
    We're sorry Google, but we appear to have linked to you on our front page on a day when a lot of people are on their computers.

    Google:
    Heh. Bring it on.

  42. Re:more vs better vs profit by chigun · · Score: 1

    Of course, Google already has such a service at Google Answers and I think the service and the business model is actually quite innovative. Too bad Google barely even markets it and the average person isn't really aware of what the service really is or what it does.

    --
    swanker than you
  43. Re:Chinese Employees -- Lack of Innovation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    We know, based on documents provided by the U.S. Labor Department, that Google hires many Chinese H-1Bs. In fact, 30% of Google's workforce is H-1Bs, of whom many hail from China.

    Link or STFU, troll.

  44. doesn't stop TV adds. by oliverthered · · Score: 1

    TV adds and payola go on through a recession.
    All that 'Google' has to go is attract people to the Internet and away from the TV and radio and attract some of that grass roots advertising revenue.

    --
    thank God the internet isn't a human right.
    1. Re:doesn't stop TV adds. by Ars-Fartsica · · Score: 1

      The ad rates drop...of course you are still going to see 20 mins of advertising per 40 minutes of programming. They'll fill it up with ads for their own programs or public service messages if need be.

    2. Re:doesn't stop TV adds. by oliverthered · · Score: 1

      Have you got any figures for sports advertising costs during recession?

      Maybe the number of people sponsored and the number of people advertising drops but I think the costs are still just as high.

      --
      thank God the internet isn't a human right.
    3. Re:doesn't stop TV adds. by Ars-Fartsica · · Score: 1

      look at the SEC 10Q forms for any media company in 2001, you will find ample statistics detailing the drop in ad revenue.

    4. Re:doesn't stop TV adds. by oliverthered · · Score: 1

      I looked...

      "Another example is that the 1996 Atlanta Games cost the official sponsor, Coca-Cola $500m. The TV coverage of the 2000 Sydney Games, 2004 Greek Games and the 2008 Chinese Games cost one television company a total of $3.5bn. Compare these vast sums of money to the first Games that were covered by TV which were the London Games in 1948 which cost the BBC £1,500, (Tomlinson and Whannel 1984). These vast sums of money are being paid, for exclusive TV coverage. This coverage can then be sold to other TV stations or can allow income from advertisements on that channel during the add breaks to increase the income. In these cases the aim is to increase the profits of the organisation by spending a relatively little, on the TV rights or being the 'official sponsor' compared to the financial rewards which are associated with being in these positions."

      well, will the money involved in the Olympics drop that much if there is a recession?

      Maybe an extream case, but a case in point.

      --
      thank God the internet isn't a human right.
    5. Re:doesn't stop TV adds. by Ars-Fartsica · · Score: 1

      Okay, so you have one network, and you haven't factored in the huge sunk cost to acquire the olympic rights. did you bother looking anywhere else...like YHOO, AOL etc? Try AOL, they were the world's largest media firm at the time.

  45. Re:Google is Doomed: Good Riddance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

    It goes far beyond this. Research into genetic and herdity has revealed that there are large differences between intelligence of various races. Perhaps you might be interested in the work of Arthur Jensen who has studied this for many years, unfourtunately his work has been largely ignored or censored by publications due to its highly contraversial (but nonetheless accurate) subject matter.

    Simply put, the average Caucasian male is simply not gentically equipped to compete with the large number of Asians out there who are in same fields of study and scholastic advancement. The free-market of education and companies who want only the best and most talented mind have brought about this change in racial composistion.

  46. STUPID MODS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's the FP.... how can it be redundant?

    Mods...... Mod correctly!

  47. Re:Searching beyond the PC and providing search AP by oliverthered · · Score: 1

    Google runs a developers contest every year, I've seen topical searches come up, so I'm assuming that google already has some ability to do this.

    --
    thank God the internet isn't a human right.
  48. It's the UI, Stupid. by IcEMaN252 · · Score: 1

    What A9 does is offer an interesting way of presenting search results. In that way, A9 is almost more of a portal than a search engine in and of itself.

    Most of us /.ers won't see A9 as a contender to Google because its not truly a search engine. However, Joe User wants something that looks nice, and he might like A9 more than Google because of the way it lets him play around.

    --
    CitrusTV (http://www.citrustv.net): the Nation's Oldest & Largest Entirely Student-Run Television Station
  49. Re:tnb niggermania.com by jerw134 · · Score: 1

    You bring up a good point. A search for Nigger Mania on both searches yielded the following results:

    Google: The site in question was nowhere to be found in the first five pages of results.

    MSN Beta: The site in question showed up as the first result.

    Google did not find the site, while MSN did. I have seen this happen more than once in recent time. MSN's new search is kicking the crap out of Google.

  50. It's interesting... by Saint+Aardvark · · Score: 4, Interesting
    In this article some of the heroic myths we geeks tell each other (see The Cathedral and The Bazaar) are turned on their heads: the companies that did the good things that give us what we have lost, and they lost precisely because they were not aggressively proprietary like Microsoft. For example:

    I argued that if it was to survive, Netscape needed to imitate Microsoft's strategy: the creation and control of proprietary industry standards. Serenely, Barksdale explained that Netscape actually invited Microsoft to imitate its products, because they would never catch up. The Internet, he said, rewarded openness and nonproprietary standards.

    I suspect the characterization of Netscape is a little starry-eyed, but I can't be the only one who thought, "No, that Netscape executive was right!" His point (someone else can argue about how accurate it is), though, is that rewards for "openness and nonproprietary standards" did not go to Netscape: MS trashed them, and in the business world Netscape lost horribly. We (as in the users of the Internet) may have won, but we won at Netscape's expense.

    And then:

    In contrast, the losers in these contests have usually made one or more common mistakes. They fail to deliver architectures that cover the entire market, to provide products that work on multiple platforms from multiple companies, to release well-engineered products, or to create barriers against cloning. For example, IBM failed to retain proprietary control over its PC architecture and then, in belatedly attempting to recover it, fatally broke with established industry standards. Apple and Sun restricted their operating systems to their own hardware, alienating other hardware vendors. Netscape declined to create proprietary APIs because it thought Microsoft would never catch up.

    IBM's opening of the PC architecture is thought of by geeks as A Good Thing: by letting go, they created the market we have today, even though they didn't benefit from it. TFA says IBM lost market dominance as a result. It's interesting that he doesn't address the question of whether the PC architecture would have taken such hold of the market if it had not been opened up to competitors in the first place...but again, what we see as a win for PC users, he presents as a loss for the people who came up with the PC.

    It's also interesting that he doesn't explain the contradiction between failing to "create barriers against cloning", and Apple and Sun's "alienating other vendors" by making their OS only work on their own hardware. He needs to pick a side on this one...

    Anyhow, no grand point -- just some things that stuck out for me in TFA.

    1. Re:It's interesting... by JamieF · · Score: 1

      >by letting go, they created the market we have today, even though they didn't benefit from it. TFA says IBM lost market dominance as a result.

      No, it says that "in belatedly attempting to recover it, fatally broke with established industry standards", meaning PS/2 and MCA. IBM thought it could close the market again but obviously was wrong about that.

      Who knows where IBM would be today if they had just stuck with the standard PC business instead of trying to trap the market with the PS/2?

      And, of IBM and Apple, who's making money selling computers, and who's getting out of the business?

      Microsoft didn't trash Netscape because of a presence or absence of standards. HTML and HTTP were already there, and Netscape did create some things like HTML extensions and SSL and cookies and JavaScript that were theirs, but they were open about it.

      But, it was on the server side (Microsoft IIS vs. Netscape Enterprise Server) that Microsoft killed Netscape, and it was due to dumping funded by monoply profits that Netscape didn't have. Perhaps Netscape could have implemented NHTTP and locked users into that, but I doubt that would have succeeded.

      If Microsoft wants to kill Google they should just give away MSN Search ad placements for free for the next five years, and allow customers to license MSN Search for their intranets and portals for free for the next five years. That (as far as I know) is where Google gets its money from, and that would likely kill them (as well as probably landing Microsoft in court again).

  51. Congrats by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you read the whole 9 pages. Slow day?

  52. The yes-goods by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are right on target. Google has the good policy of keeping a cookie until the year 2038 to identify you. That way, everytime you either search for something, or visit one of the (gazillion) sites with adwords, your id, timestamp and url are written in a tiny little line in one of those 250000 boxes.

    With the years, they become like old pals of yours, since they know a good part of your browsing history. They do that in order to serve you the most interesting ads, to improve your internet experience. In ten years, 2014, they will have a whole diary of your browsing experience, quasi a profile of your personal development (online). Again, they need that to serve you the most appropriate ads.

    Now let's hope (some: pray) that they stay good. And buttoned up.

  53. Search Spam Results by bdigit · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I wish they would implement some type of spam filtering for search results.. Ever try searching for a drug? You get like 20 of the same exact webpages when you click on them it brings you to a huge spam site with the words of like 100 drugs all over the page. I find it very annoying nowadays when I goto search for alot of terms and the first 2 pages are completely spam pages with no content on them at all but a bunch of words to move up in googles pagerank

  54. "print friendly" link by mshiltonj · · Score: 1

    Since the html-ized article is spread across 9 whole page ad-filled pages, maybe you should read the printer friendly page instead.

    1. Re:"print friendly" link by angrykeyboarder · · Score: 1

      But What if I don't want to print? :-)

      Besides, I have no problem clicking "next".

      --
      Scott

      ©20014 angrykeyboarder & Elmer Fudd. All Wights Wesewved
  55. i say... by mschoolbus · · Score: 1

    Gbay!

  56. microsoft can go lick a brick by XxXoldsaltXxX · · Score: 0

    microsoft just cant stop picking on smaller companies. mozilla, then google. 10 bucks says that sooner or later, MS is going to try to compete with slashdot

  57. So Gates wants to be an inovator??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One of the links notes from a M$ exec that Gates wants to be known as an inovator and not someone who has made it rich by taking other peoples ideas and making mediocre products out of them... Well, start inovating instead of following everyone around and trying to out do them. Here is one I would love to see for starters -- research and implement one of the best software automated testing tools ever developed and USE it!

  58. Re:more vs better vs profit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's already happened. I work for a huge company in their research center, and I was told that if you can't find a result in fifteen minutes or less, we have an entire library staff to do it for you. Also, you can put things out on watch and have a staff member give you a monthly report on specific subjects from periodicals and journals. It is quite a nice service and is well worth the staffing costs if it is indeed utilized.

  59. google's not all that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    if tomorrow a new site comes up with a better search engine (the way google did in its infancy) and more satisfying results, i don't think it will take time before everyone moves from google to newgle.

    jj

  60. All MS wants for Christmas... by inject_hotmail.com · · Score: 1

    is a way to search for sites with installation keys and illegal s/w on them.

    MS has never been good at search engines. (Who else uses another search engine to search microsoft.com for tech support articles?)

    Just wait...I bet we'll see, in little tiny MS fineprint 3pt font, "powered by google" on the new "MS" search engine.

    Inject.

  61. Re:more vs better vs profit by KingJoshi · · Score: 1

    The task is called Question Answering. Google does a lot of Information Extraction and retrieves results very well. But other parts of QA include analyzing the question as well as extracting the answer. So, assuming you get many results from your database of relevant documents, you analyze the documents and look for answers within them and then present that to the user.

    What some people like to do is Information Browsing and sometimes don't have clear intent or have multiple interests. And sometimes, answering some questions lead to others and so you have Context Question Answering. Research in ongoing in these fields and Google has many highly qualified people working the Natural Language Processing field.

    Ask Jeeves first tried this commercially. It's much easier to design a system if you have a given database and know the intended audience (Wall Street Journal archives and the NY Times archives are often used). I say within 5 years, the commerical consumer systems will be much better in handling NLP tasks.

    It's shouldn't be the job of humans to rephrase questions, use precise terminology, learn complicated UI to use computers. The computers should know generalizations about humans and then adapt to the users and properly phrase questions in case of ambiguities. Humans can learn, but we can adapt only so much, especially if not trained at an early age. Sure you want to give children some experience with computers, but money would be better spent elsewhere in education, or in research in NLP or UI AI.

    --
    In times like these, it is helpful to remember that there have always been times like these. - Paul Harvey
  62. Re:GoogleGroups Debacle, A Sign Google Ain't The S by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, apparently the switch to the new format is for real, despite the beta tag.

    Previously, gg was a tap into usenet, with excellent retention, searchability, and formatting. Google wants wants to "own" usenet, or more properly, co-opt the usenet discussion idiom, by mixing in it's own groups and features in with the usenet stuff. That wouldn't be so bad in itself, except that they've gutted most of the utility of gg in the process. Some business head is in charge of the gg project, not a person that would actually use usenet as a resource, else it'd be apparent to them that they've cut the head off of the best part of google's featureset. Things would have never come down this way.

  63. Yes, Google is so yesterday!! by kamesh · · Score: 0

    focus on making money has distracted Google from providing "true" and "unbiased" search...it is getting sicker by day!! i am looking for a "real" search engine

    1. Re:Yes, Google is so yesterday!! by FxChiP · · Score: 1

      You serious?

      A search for "cable" on Yahoo! and a search for "cable" on Google both return results with sponsors' links, but Yahoo! puts their sponsor links intrusively before their results as well as on the right, in contrast to Google, who merely puts them on the right. Most people I know wouldn't notice; advertisements in a vertical box at the right side of the screen (ESPECIALLY the way Google does it) seem a lot less intrusive to me than a horizontal at the top or somesuch.

    2. Re:Yes, Google is so yesterday!! by kamesh · · Score: 1

      Check this out...there was a weekend "Misterminds" prgram on Court TV...one of the episodes was about Carl Gugasian "The Friday Bank Robber"...I did a search "carl gugasian friday bank robber Court TV" on both Google and Yahoo...Google results did not pick the Court TV episode...I was trying to look for the details of the episode...Yahoo nailed the Court TV result...see for urself by searching the following terms on both Google and Yahoo: carl gugasian friday bank robber Court TV

  64. Market disagrees by j_heisenberg · · Score: 1

    Google had net cash of 608m$ on revenues of 805m$ for the third quarter and a measly market cap of over 50b$.

    Just guessing, but people might think of Google in 10 years like they do now about MS. Having 75% of internet visibility at your disposal gives you some power... You could insert any amount of conspiracy as what could happen if you displease them... As a starting point: sliding down 2 or 3 places for a major retailer can hurt significantly. Talk about serious $.

    I'm not saying that Yahoo, Msn, Amazon etc. do anything differently, but Google could be the ones with the key assets. Consumer access

    1. Re:Market disagrees by generic-man · · Score: 1

      My view is that Google in 2009 will be like Yahoo! in 2004. Everyone will have heard of them, they will have some excellent products, but all the "real" computer nerds will have moved on to more obscure (and therefore better) competitors. People will start rumors that Google has sold out and is now evil; whether or not these are substantiated, Slashdot will start advocating that people who are smarter than "Joe Sixpack" use CoolObscureSearchEngine instead.

      --
      For more information, click here.
    2. Re:Market disagrees by j_heisenberg · · Score: 1

      I can't read the tea leaves so dunno...

      First of all, to do the stuff Google does, you need massive hardware, tech expertise in handling that volume, and marketing channels. Right now, only Yahoo and Msn have it. Doesn't mean no one could still enter, but your neat garage (OSS?) shop. Google handles 200m searches a day. However, I would guess multiple times that in AdWord searches.

      And search is like ebay. You know people want you to find them, so they make shure they are on Google (and Yahoo). So you look there to find them, and not to SomeNiftySearch.edu. I'm not saying a huge public backlash could not stop them. But it will get harder and harder...

      On Amazon they have all these "people who liked A also liked B" thing and all their recommend algorithms. If Google ever gets away with something like that, it's a done deal. For Amazon, you need to visit their site. For Google, you need to visit *any AdWord enabled site*. Could be huge.

  65. For those craving insightful slashdot discussion!! by Vicsun · · Score: 1

    The article was previously posted and discussed at slashdot.

  66. Re:Commas commas commas by J.+Random+Luser · · Score: 1

    No great problem here with the commas, but it must be a busted WP, didja see all the wonky forced hyphenation?

  67. Where were these guys... by J.+Random+Luser · · Score: 1

    while Apple has been demoing the Tiger/Flashlight search? OK the article was MS vs Google, and MacOS 10.4 isn't on the streets yet, so on p.6 we see
    Today, a user cannot possibly conduct a search such as "Show me everything about the Chinese economy that has appeared in the last month in my e-mail attachments, Word documents, bookmarked websites, corporate portal, voice mail, or Bloomberg subscription."
    and p.7 For instance, if desktop search tools enjoyed deeper access to the internal document structures of Word and Excel, they would be much more useful.
    I have seen Flashlight pull one word off a .pdf streetmap, and another out of a .zip mail attachment. Searches can be directed by context, format, date, etc. I know Apple are notorious for failing to profit from licensing cool technology, but does that make them irrelevant to this article?

    1. Re:Where were these guys... by HeghmoH · · Score: 1

      Given that Tiger is not available to the public yet, I would say that the quoted text is perfectly accurate, although it is destined for irrelevancy pretty soon.

      --
      Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
  68. The mind of god. by donothingsuccessfull · · Score: 1
    Sergey Brin once told Technology Review's editor in chief, "The perfect search engine would be like the mind of God."
    What does that say about god?
    1. Re:The mind of god. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He spends a lot of time thinking about Britney Spears.

  69. "Next" is not more that what has already been. by steven.coco · · Score: 1

    ... "Is" is more. As is evidenced by Google's late venture to catalog library content, information that is potentially good for searching is best marked up at the source -- indexed if you would. Search engines are ultimately bound to fishing under thier original paradigm. I believe it is such that Google sorts results based on how many references a given result has and/or how many other results or pages link to it. Since even that concept is specious, it behooves the search user to "keep the result pool clean": Don't post false or misleading information, and in the face of this reference searching, don't quote specious material! - Steev.

  70. microsoft rarely wins by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Slashdot should have an automatic post for every 'someone' vs Microsoft story that points out that Microsoft has only two winning products, Windows and Office. They pretty much lose in every other major competitive battle (with the exception of giving stuff away free ala the netscape war). Yes those are two big cash cows but it is a myth that Microsoft can take over whatever it wants.
    since web searches are already free Microsoft won't be able to give it away to drive google out. I'm hoping they start paying people to use it.

  71. Other questions.... by tdhillman · · Score: 1

    1. Isn't this familiar?

    Tell me if you've heard this one before- upstart company led by a couple of charismatic characters who build a piece of technology that transforms the way we go about doing things....

    The big difference is that this time Microsoft may well be a giant with seemingly unlimited resources as opposed to a rising company that toppled Apple rather neatly with a mix of good business and mean business.

    Google is Apple this time out- the interface is cool, the engine has become part of the lexicon (can we ever escape Googling?) and anything Microsoft does will not be able to eclipse a tool that is so simple and deceptively powerful. We are just seeing the tip of the iceberg.

    2. Whither the Internet in all of this? In such a short time, the public Internet has grown into a web of mind-boggling power and complexity. When considering Google, isn't also important that we consider exactly how seamless the experience of working with the Internet will become in the near future? As I write on a wireless laptop, I know that the machine has become a font of information for me. As I teach, the Internet is an ever-present part of my existence.

    I don't think that Microsoft is really a player in this area- we can search with MSN all we like, but Google has a substantial head start, and the brain power is still in force. And, they don't really have to worry about anyone buying it- just consuming it.....

    --
    befuddled (noun) 1. Unable to create a pithy sig
  72. Can someone email the GOOGLE chiefs by The+MESMERIC · · Score: 1

    and let them know how much their project Orkut utterly stinks?

    If I was Google I would have those developers all sacked, hire a new agency and have that shitty piece of software all re-written in anything but .NET (PHP would be a good choice)

    Orkut's lameness brings Google such a bad image.

  73. Re:GoogleGroups Debacle, A Sign Google Ain't The S by antispam_ben · · Score: 1

    The BETA groups now replaces the old way Google Groups works (worked?), and as most Usenet readers know, there's someone unhappy enough about it to spam their unhappiness to every group.
    But someone posted a solution. Just use Google Groups from other English-speaking countries, such as:

    http://groups.google.com.au/

    --
    Tag lost or not installed.
  74. Agree 100% by kamesh · · Score: 1

    There was a weekend "Masterminds" program on Court TV...one of the episodes was about Carl Gugasian "The Friday Bank Robber"...I did a search "carl gugasian friday bank robber Court TV" on both Google and Yahoo...Google results did not pick the Court TV episode...I was trying to look for the details of the episode...Yahoo nailed the Court TV result...see for urself by searching the following terms on both Google and Yahoo: carl gugasian friday bank robber Court TV

  75. Google IM is almost here by Zaurus · · Score: 1

    Ever tried Gmail notifier? (windoze only, unfortunately) It's not quite IM, but it notifies you as soon as an email shows up in your Gmail inbox.

    Combine that with near-instant email transmission times, and my emailing tends to be very IM-like, especially with other Gmail users...

    C'mon Google! GIM! Like AIM, only better!

  76. Re:Searching beyond the PC and providing search AP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is a nice idea. There is an advantage in that an API would nature a huge ecosystems that would keep google relevant. But there is also a problem, abuse. Lets see how long it take before someone write a M$ window virus that utilize the huge power of google cluster to do havoc. How could they prevent that considering he is already whining that they limit their current API to 1000 querries a day. And does anyone know why he think its a good idea to licence their search algorithm as a fluid software instead of a linux appliance? I can't see any advantage of that

  77. Gripe! by deemaunik · · Score: 1

    Every single day I see some news on Google, I die a little inside. When their stock went public at around 80 a share, if memory serves, I wished I had about 100 large to invest in them. I Knew they'd do well. Now, about six months later, they've more than doubled their stock value, and still rising. Something like 190 a share. Damn glass ceilings [Need money to make money]. Bitching aside, kudos to Google and it's innovations. Interesting.

  78. Re:Google is Doomed: Good Riddance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Score: -1, Racist

  79. Re:tnb niggermania.com by Dun+Malg · · Score: 1
    You bring up a good point. A search for Nigger Mania on both searches yielded the following results: Google: The site in question was nowhere to be found in the first five pages of results. MSN Beta: The site in question showed up as the first result. Google did not find the site, while MSN did. I have seen this happen more than once in recent time. MSN's new search is kicking the crap out of Google.

    I wouldn't call that "kicking the crap out of". All MSN did differently was put the two search terms together and see if there was a match for THAT. Since the dumbass cracker fucktard site "niggermania.com" never presents it as two separate words, a search for it as two separate words won't come up in Google.

    --
    If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
  80. Google Banking/Finance by angrydj · · Score: 1

    I want to see something along the lines of "google banking" or "google/paypal" with a similar interface as Gmail. It would be great to "lable" new transactions automatically instead of having to enter them into your "quicken-like" program.

  81. Re:tnb niggermania.com by jerw134 · · Score: 1

    You just proved that MSN is better than Google, while trying to disprove it. If MSN allows me to find something that Google does not, no matter how MSN does it, MSN did a better job.

    The goal of a search engine is to help people find things. MSN does a better job at finding things than Google does. Add to that the quicker updates, and you've got yourself a search engine that kicks the crap out of Google.

  82. What's next? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I like the idea of archiving the scientific journals. The archiving of the books out of copyright appears to be similar to the guttenberg project though.

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