Slashdot Mirror
Time Sharing Cars
timmy_walker writes "This article from the associated press talks about new car time share services from ZipCar and Seattle-based Flexcar, where "Customers make reservations via computer or telephone, and the company uses remote-access systems to control who can use the car when.""
I used to have a Ford Fiesta which I used to time share, between me and the goddamn mechanics.
This is much like Autoshare in Toronto, Canada. There are many others as well. A good resource can be found here.
Are taxi drivers unionized?
-- "Makes Little Debbie look like a pile of puke!" - Moe Szyslak
Why stop at cars? Instead of mail-order brides, rent-a-wife!
"May evil beware, and may good dress warmly and eat plenty of fresh vegetables." -The Tick
with used cars so cheap, um no.
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/12/21/012320 4&tid=222&tid=1
How long before we get a similar /. article for cars?
There's a very similar sounding system running in the UK, in London, Edinburgh, Bristol and Brighton. It's run by Smart Moves, and involves cars that are parked in designated spots, booked by phone or web, with access via smartcard. It's been quite polular here in Bristol, by all accounts, and many new housing developments are including car club spaces in their plans.
Public transportation is more convenient and cheaper.
I would really like to know what time sharing policy they are implementing... Fastest job first? FIFO? Multiple lines? random??...
Nicolau Werneck - NIC1138
"The secret of genius is to carry the spirit of childhood into maturity" -- Thomas Huxley
Whether it flies, floats, or fucks, it's cheaper to rent than own !
"Inside my Zipcar, the key is hanging from a cord near the ignition -- which would appear to be an unwise place to leave a key in the city. But the ignition unlocks only after I presented my card, so nobody else can break in and start the car."
This is also offered in New York, where if you slow down, your car is stripped?
Pete Carr Owner Chatmag.com
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/12/21/012320 4&tid=222&tid=1
Make the link nicer ;)
Sounds like a great idea to me.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
say someone is late in returning their car and the next person has to go somewhere with the car. But when it's time for the first dude to return the car, he doesn't, isn't the 2nd guy screwed??? 1. Rent Car 2. Don't Return 3. Other guy is screwed????? 4. PROFIT!!!
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
it isn't.
People have cars for privacy - its your own little home on wheels you can take anywhere, this is just a gloryfied rental car? Just get the bus...
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
How do they keep people from smoking in these things or keeping people from trashing them? Spilled coffee Someone's kid getting car sick Fast food wrappers Someone's homless person or dog shitting all over the thing? Seems like their would be a huge reduction of accountibility for these cars.
I agree about public transportation but this is why Zipcar must offer something that is not possible with taxi or public transport. Pickup trucks per hour for example. Living in a college town like Boston, people are always moving things but being away from home and parents no noone has cars/trunks.
Did anybody else read this as Time Shaving Cats? No? ...
This may work on a small scale, but I know how people treat rental cars, and many people trash the cars that they own. I'm supposed to drive one of these things after Comic Book Guy does God knows what in the back seat? I don't think so.
Right now these companies have a limited membership that they can screen. But this will never survive the transition to big-time.
Give a man fire, and you warm him for the night. Set a man on fire, and you warm him for the rest of his life.
I first found out about ZipCar from an advert in a T station (subway for those of you not in New England) in Boston. This had to be a few years ago--possibly 2001.
Since I live in NH, it wasn't available to me at the time, but I thought it was intriguing, especially for people that don't drive that often.
"May I have ten thousand marbles, please?"
guys are up to it. "Hack a car" anyone?
"Hack a bike" http://www.hackaday.com/entry/1234000097024846/
Is there anyone out there who'd like to share their Ferrari or Porsche with me? I'm not picky, either will suffice ...
Those bike hackers when you need them?
In Ottawa they have a very successful car sharing program. Have a look at their website: http://www.vrtucar.com/ They are mostly using Ford Focuses and I think they even have a mini-van for share. I believe it is a great idea in any urban area. Insurance rates are pretty costly in the area.
In metro areas, bicycles are vastly faster anyways. If you can stand to get sweaty, that is...
There are times when public tranportation is useful... I was a bus man for many years.
But, frankly, there's times when it's a pain... it's off-peak hours, the weather is crappy, you have to go a long distance with several transfers, you're picking up something that can't be easily carried around, you're going on a date (well, not YOU, per se... but a non-slashdot reader).
I got quite sick of planning to be on the bus several hours per day when I worked on the far side of the city, but I couldn't afford the incredibly outrageous amounts for a car.
I mean, come on folks... it's a freakin CAR, it's not made of gold, it doesn't come with a built-in treasure map... why in the name of Linus should a chunk of metal that explodes dead dinosaurs to move cost $40,000+, and have insurance, consumables, and maintenance that can add up to many thousands per year more? I think they're priced that way because we're all conditioned to think that they should be expensive.
But, I digress. I wish this had been available when it was the right time of life for me to use it... a convenient way to have occasional access to a vehicle (an occasional requirement in a city with an extremely low population density like Edmonton) without having to bend over and take it up the ass from all the fuckers who seem to think that because the word "auto" has 4 letters, all the associated costs should have 4 digits (significant). I hope projects like these get more coverage, and help stop the rush of people going out to buy cars they can't afford with loans they can't afford on income they can't guarantee.
If I knew the wedgies I gave you back in 6th grade would have resulted in this . . . I might have taken a moments pause.
Can I timeshare a computer? A really good one with high end everything. I'll book it when during peak times for mmorpg'ing.
...
Why is everyone looking at me funny??
Oops, how did this get here?
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
Remember Lawrence Summers dictum:
"In the history of the world, no one has ever washed a rented car"
Indy Media Watch-Proctologist of the Internet
A story:
I had a friend who worked as a tech in a retail camera shop. He had a
coworker who collected "dumb questions" that people would ask him over
the phone. "My [whatever] doesn't work. Do I need to bring it in?"
"No," he would reply pleasantly, "Just hold it up to the phone."
As his birthday approached, his coworkers enlisted my help to give him
a special present. We got together over a few beers and they coached
me on the absolute *dumbest* sequence of questions that could possibly
be asked:
"I dropped my camera into the deep fryer at work. What should I do to
clean it up?"
"It was only in the fat a few minutes; do you think it needs service?"
"I took apart the [non serviceable module] and a little spring shot
out; do you have one?"
And so on for about four or five minutes. After that, I gave him the
clincher. "It doesn't appear to be working properly," I said, "Should
I bring it in?"
"No," he replied as expected, "Just hold it up to the phone."
So I did!
"There, just there! Did you hear that slight mechanical
scraping? Listen again." "Did you get it that time?
"There it was again!"
To top it off, I did it with a straight face... or phone voice,
anyway... and my friend's coworker was positively walking on air the
rest of the day. It was told and retold in that shop for years.
Jones... who says, "Practice makes perfect!"
They don't cost $40,000, unless you feel you need an Audi or Expedition Eddie Bauer Edition. If you just want a car to move you from point A to point B, a 10 year old Toyota or other reliable car that costs $2000 ought to do nicely. If it breaks down expensively, buy another $2000 car. And you'd only need liability insurance, no comp or collision.
I forgot to reserve the getaway car!
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
I live in Seattle and haven't been enthused about it.
To take a flex car to somewhere close but inconvenient that isn't served by bus, say a doctor appointment where you need time, is going to cost about $30 just for the time.
Or a trip to a nearby city, (Seattle to Everett) that might take an hour to drive there and back, but easily put 100 miles on a car... again, $30.
At the $30 mark, you can easily get a rental car for the entire day. Most real rental cars have enough free miles to make nearby but long trips.
Truly I don't know anyone who pays for FlexCar out of their own money who keeps using it.
I'd really like it if I could just grab a FlexCar on some one-way trips, like when I see one parked in a Park and Ride, it's cold, and my bus is late... but you have to return it where you find it and it's not quite so spontaneous to take them. C'est la vie, it hasn't worked for me.
it's just too bad you never get any!!!
If I wasn't married with a kid and was a member of the aforementioned rogue bike-hacking squad...
I would need to learn how to create an RFID transmitter (or several if multiple "processors" are necessary) which could cycle through the range of available codes as quickly as possible (if it is known that they are only using a small consistent segmant of the possible codes that would make it much faster). Then I'd find out how to identify the reserved parking spots the company uses. Then I'd find out how to disable and spoof the GPS tracking unit the company uses.
Ok, that sounds like a pain in the ass.
Co-operative Auto Network, in Vancouver, Nanaimo, Tofino, Courtenay, and Cortes Island (in BC, Canada).
My condo in downtown San Diego only has one parking spot which is permenantly claimed by my wife's car (it's nicer than my car). If I didn't have to commute via car every day I'd gladly subscribe to the flexcar that sits a block away. Heck, the subscription would pay just for the parking spot that car occupies. I can see this being a real benefit in other places where parking is brutal like beach areas or other urban centers.
I am a zipcar user in Hoboken, NJ. I use it for occasional trips that last a few hours.
This link should answer most questions about the service. http://www.zipcar.com/help/
1999 was when it was founded
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
The cars are in XS.
Is this guy Fraiser? ...oh yeah - Fraiser has a BMW...
// It had been Fat's delusion for years that he could help people. --Philip K. Dick, Valis
Let me paint 2 scenarios. Both involve a first date with a beautiful woman. In the first, you roll up in a rinky dink little shared car. In the second, you roll up in something slick that you own. Which scenario offers a better chance of getting lucky?
US$8.50 for an hour? I guess with this kind of service (more overheads?) it is reasonable, but seems a bit pricey when I could get a car for AU$21 for the whole day.
// It had been Fat's delusion for years that he could help people. --Philip K. Dick, Valis
From a pure cost perspective is public transit in the US really cheaper?
You're thinking "cheaper" because your fare might be only a dollar or two. You're ignoring the substantial infrastructure costs associated with building out a public transit system.
For the older systems the infracstructure maintenance costs are relatively large, but because the costs are spread out in the form of taxes the cost is less visible.
It'd be interesting to see how much a new transit system (like in Dallas or Austin) would be relative to the cost of giving each rider a new (or used) car. Project the cost out by 10 years, and the car will most likely be cheaper (just from the taxes from gas purchases).
http://www.citycarshare.org/ They seem cheaper than the ones mentioned in the article--$4/hr peak, $2/hr off peak, 44cents/mile. They run in the SF bay area, and are actually pretty good. I used to live near a convenient transit hub, so I hardly ever drove my car except for some grocery shopping and errands. But I still had to spend $$$ for my car, plus insurance etc.
In Soviet Russia, articles before post read *you*!
I have a bus stop right 20m from my apartment door and a few hundred meters from my workplace and I don't need to change buses. However taking a bus still takes twice as long as driving. Perhaps (more) dedicated bus lanes could ameliorate that but the pick-up, put-down time is still going to be a significant factor.
The most inconvenient thing about using a car is the money. Between insurance, upkeep and depreciation I think using public transport exclusively would be more cost effective for me. But spending an extra half hour each way to get too and from work is an investment in itself.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
Wow. This "new" service from Flexcar has been available for at least 5 years in Portland. Nice. Just, really... nice. so new. 5+ years new.
If something I said can be interpreted two ways, and one of the ways makes you sad or angry, I meant the other one.
http://www.citycarshare.org/
They seem cheaper than the ones mentioned in the article--$4/hr peak, $2/hr off peak, 44cents/mile.
They run in the SF bay area, and are actually pretty good. I used to live near a convenient transit hub, so I hardly ever drove my car except for some grocery shopping and errands. But I still had to spend $$$ for my car, plus insurance etc. I would have loved something like this. Unfortunately, I moved out of the area, but my friends tell me thy are great
In Soviet Russia, articles before post read *you*!
Hey, you, moderator who said this was OT!
If you knew Vince, and what a ZipCar whore he was, you would STFU!
"That doesn't make any sense, " I thought. "If a society is advanced, a person shouldn't need a car to get around. It should be a luxury purchase."
An advanced society is able to have effective, efficient, and cheap public transportation. The fact that we rely on cars to move people around shows how far we have to go towards an advanced society, not just a rich one.
I would love to give up my car. I'm looking at houses within walking or biking distance of my job, so that I can lose the cost. But right now I have to drive 40 miles to and from work each day. Not because I want to, but because a long time ago a war hero who got elected president decided to cut rail funding in favor of building 30 meter wide swaths of concrete across the countryside. And then wasting my tax dollars on maintaining them.
I just dropped $55 on an inspection and emissions test because I need to drive to and from work. That's $55 I can't spend on a new hard drive or computer. I spend $40 a week (A WEEK!) on gas because there's no way I can commute.
I can't imagine how difficult it would be if I were someone on a limited income trying to hold down a job without a car. Public transportation doesn't go into the suburbs, where the money and jobs are, so I'd be confined to one small area for everything, or paying out the ass for taxis to haul me to and from work.
Things have got to change.
You have two hands and one brain, so always code twice as much as you think!
Switzerland has a very successful car sharing system, 1700 cars in 950 locations. The pricing is cheaper, about $2 per hour and $0.50 per kilometer. The rest is similar: Reservations over web/phone, access using keycard.
Can I recommend it? For areas with good public transports, definitely. No worries about servicing, insurances, taxes, repairs, garages and all that stuff. Never had trouble getting a car, only sometimes I had to get one from a location a bit further away. Here in the town of Zurich, the next car sharing location is never more than a 5 minute walk off.
Does this make environmental sense? Definitely. Around 50% (IIRC) of the energy a car uses is used when making it - car sharing takes way less cars. And you use the car less since public transports are usually closer. Finally, when you use it, you can pick the smallest car that does the job on hand - usually a 2-seater in my case.
Will this take off elsewhere? I would hope so, but good public transports have to be there first (the Swiss are the strongest train users worldwide and most train stations include car sharing spots). Additionally, every car sharing organization has a chicken/egg problem (no locations -> no users) until it reaches a certain size, so booting it up can be hard.
If you can, go for it. I consider not worrying about a car and reading a newspaper on the way to work luxury.
- wtf? this is old shit!
There must be millions of people who own and use cars for just that reason, and it has a pretty nasty environmental and economic impact. Which is the main motivation behind the organization that does car sharing in my area.
Then again, there are millions of people who wouldn't give up their cars for any reason. Are these the folks who complain most loudly about gas prices?
Maybe it'll get hacked like that bike service in hongkong. Then people would be riding around in free cars.
Seriously though, this doesn't sound very secure/safe/good.
When I lived in town, I realized that I was spending money on a car in order to drive it thirty minutes per day. I would drive fifteen minutes to work, let car sit for ten hours, drive fifteen minutes home, let car sit for ten hours, most weekdays. I found that I really only needed a car on the weekends.
Then one day, my beast of burden sat down on the side of the road and died. There was no cure.
So I went down to the local rental place, and made them a deal. I simply told them that I would like a car every weekend starting on Friday evening and that I would bring it back Sunday. I let them keep the deposit on file. They got steady business, I got whatever I needed (a clean, maintained car, truck, SUV, or convertible).
Sure, it was not all roses. There were times when I needed a truck but had to use an SUV. The Caddy convertible was not always available, but I got by. Low and behold, when I am totalling up the charges, it came to no more than the cost I spent on my old car. Go figure.
Now I live in the woods, so a ride is a necessity, but if I ever move back to the core, let me tell you...
*whup* "Get along, little electrons. Heeyah!"
People hack cars all the time. They use slim jims and it's called grand thieft auto. There are easier ways to steal a car than hacking. It's the same crime either way.
For instance, is it more convenient for me to spend half of my travel time waiting for buses and trains on a Sunday
You're lucky. If I want to go somewhere on Sunday, and I want to take a public bus in Fort Wayne, I have to wait 24 hours.
Except the buses in Fort Wayne stop running before many people get out of bars, and when they close on New Year's Eve 2004, they won't run until January 3, 2005. (Closed New Year's Day, and closed Sundays year-round.)
Also, in a "time-share" you actually own something. Here, you are basically just a member of a club. Maybe this is all just a scam to get you application fee and $100 deposit, while paying for a rental car to boot.
Perhaps you can get some decent research time in while riding the bus. I can't. I get sick if I try to read in a moving vehicle. So all I can do is sit and stare out the window. I may as well drive, where I get there in half the time.
Most of the time they will be web browsing using little cpu
Which will make complicated Flash advertisements even more expensive.
The problem with the things like this is that many of these programs have an age limit of 25 (just like rentals) in the us because of insureance. In areas where this is most needed, I feel that this will not be a usufull option.
This would be most usefull for young people that cannot own and can only rent.
in practice, no
zipcar for example:
if you rent the car for 2 hours, and you have to fill up the car with gas making you 5 or 10 minutes late (getting gas in an urban area is usually much more of a headache than a sub urban area) - you are charged when the car is returned late.
if you use the car on a regular basis for a scheduled errand this can happen frequently. there are really three choices, call customer service to resolve the issue (there is a charge for calling them), eat the $25 late fee, or add another hour block to your reservation because of the chance this situation occurring.
it's really a pain in the ass.
...wonderful. Chicago has great public transportation, and since I live in the city, I don't feel the need to own a car. However, there are times when a car is handy, such as when I bought a 35 inch TV. I-Go let me rent a van/SUV which looked darned near brand new. After keying in the code, the ignition turned and off I went. I had the car for six hours...returned it right on time on a weekend evening and went home to enjoy my new TV and home gym. No, I didn't aim to buy gym equipment that day, but what the heck, I had the vehicle... I hope this concept grows. It is very convenient and makes good sense. The suburbs are great for shopping....but that's about it...need a car to get there when I have to suffer the trip to "homogeneous land".
Who needs a $40K car to get around? For $2K, you can get a perfectly fine and clean car that will last you 5 years. I bught a $4K Forebird that lasted me 7 faithful years, and that's with me absolutely running it into the ground due to not keeping it in shape with SIMPLE common sense. Had I not neglected the car, I'd probably still be driving it. My next car will be a $2K Grand Prix. I fully expect this car to last 5 years. You should read Click and Clack's thoughts on buying used cars.
First, it's scaling pretty well already. Second, if you find that Comic Book Guy did God Knows What in the back seat, you call the 24-hour number. They fine Comic Book Guy $200, pay you $20 for your inconvenience. Then they get you a taxi to another car, or you use the taxi itself for your trip. Which Comic Book Guy also pays for.
Go read the site at flexcar, it's pretty well thought-out.
-Zipwow
I don't know which is more depressing, that 2/3 didn't care enough to vote, or that 1/2 of those that did are crazy.
it's good advice.
The first rule of Flexcar is: You can depend on the flexcar.
The second rule of Flexcar is: You can depend on the flexcar.
The third rule of Flexcar is: DO NOT BE LATE WITH THE FLEXCAR.
Their policy is that if you have a reservation, and the car isn't there, you call their toll-free 24-hour support number. They either get you a car nearby (if that works), or they send you a taxi. You take that taxi on your task, for up to some amount ($200 I think it is). The bottom line: if you have a reservation, you can count on getting where you're going.
Why can they afford to do this? If you're the one late with the flexcar, and you didn't call and let them know, YOU PAY FOR THE TAXI.
Do NOT be late with the Flexcar.
On the upside, if you *know* you're going to be late, then you can call in and let them know. Then they can warn the next member, or send a taxi to take them to another car. Much cheaper than sending a taxi to take them on their whole trip.
Of course, if it totally isn't your fault (accident, car breakdown, etc) Flexcar takes pretty good care of you. I was late with a car once because I had taken my wife to the hospital in it (a deep cut -- needed to be examined, but not ambulance worthy). They worked with the next person, and got it taken care of.
I've been a Flexcar member and car-free (in Seattle) for four years. It's great. I've only paid taxi fees a couple of times, they were about $40 or so. Ultimately, not a big deal. And even with the fees, waaay cheaper than owning a car.
I don't know which is more depressing, that 2/3 didn't care enough to vote, or that 1/2 of those that did are crazy.
Things change. If you're able to learn how to do basic repairs to cars, you can get a car on the road for less than $1000. $2000 in nice shape. Get a old honda civic, find a junkyard with parts, and there you go - those motors are good for 300,000 or more miles. They are also easily rebuilt with minimal special tools.
It's a myth you can't fix cars, and people are insane for buying new ones the way they do. Insurance on a car like that even with a bad driving record is only a few hundred dollars per year, and in a stripped down state a 91 hatch is capable of 40+mpg. I have one in my driveway with 450,000km on it.
Now, if you want a penis replacement or status symbol, that's different. If you want a cheap, reasonably safe way around and are crafty about it - it can be done.
The same effect can be realized by buying a newer, used car in good repair (96-98 honda, for example), and keeping the maintenance up on it. There is no reason you can't get 20 years out of a properly maintained car. Even rust has been licked for the most part; both my 91 and 98 civics are washed weekly in our salted, atlantic canadian winters and both of them have little or no rust.
..don't panic
This idea is stupid.
I've been a happy user of City Carshare (http://citycarshare.org/) in San Francisco / Oakland for over two years - great service, really convenient.
Where I am we just ride our bikes. Nothing is better than riding your bike pissed out of your fucking skull. nothing.
That could just be San Francisco though.
A blog about stuff.
I agree. Passenger loading/unloading is the really significant factor. When you have to stop every couple blocks for ~60 seconds to load or unload, it really slows things down.
It was about a 10 mile drive downtown when I was still living with my parents. There's a bus stop less than a block away. Especially during the heavy commuting periods, I could quite literally beat the bus downtown on my bicycle.
If you look at it, personal conveyances have many advantages over traditional mass-transit systems. That's why I like the ideas that bring the advantages of mass transit systems (fuel efficiency, don't have to drive) and personal conveyances (more or less point to point, non-stop, and on-demand).
I don't read AC A human right
Of course maybe I'm just insensitive, in the OC Ferrari and Mercedes are more common than Ford and Chevy.
Bazily
--
Lease an Office in the OC
Why cut IT when your office space costs $3/sf? gibso
I used their estimator and pumped in 10 hours and 200 miles per week. They came back with a price of $385/month. By comparison, my car costs me about $600/month for insurance, fuel, repairs and I get to use it without limits.
Plus I have to pay an annual fee of $50 and a 1 time application fee of $25 plus $100 refundable membership fee. They should definately make it cheaper and then a lot of people in NYC would join....
I live 18.6 miles from work via bike. It takes me about an hour to ride in, or if I want, I can take the trolley which takes about the same amount of time. On a good day it will take 30 minutes to drive, but on most days I'm looking at being parked on I8, I94, or SR52 for around 45 minutes. Oh, this includes a 10 minute walk to the parking lot to get to my car vs my bike locker right outside the door of the building. So basically, I'm spending an extra 30 minutes each way getting a workout, or reading on the Trolley. It's quite a bit cheaper and better for my health.
I guess the problem is, once you have the car(~$400/month payment) and insurance(~$100), any amount you drive is about 12 cents a mile(25mpg car,$2 gallon,$1 maintenance), discounting your time. If you drive a 30mpg car and do your own maintenance, it might cost you 8 cents a mile.
.12/mile. Now, when I last looked at bus rates, it was $1.25 for a one-way trip. So unless I was going more than 10 miles(15 for the efficient car), it's cheaper for me to drive. Add in "faster" and "more convenient" and I'm going to drive alot. I'll take a cab when flying (Airports not far, and charges for parking).
So once you make the decision that you need the car, your monthly cost is $500/month +
But then, that's just my situation. If you sit down and figure it out, you can find your own situation. If you live in a primitive arcology, you may be able to do just about everything via elevators, and subway system.
If they put the PRT system into practice, it could deliver stuff right to your building. Hire a building delivery guy to move the stuff right to your location.
Of course, this site brings up some potential problems with PRT (that I don't see as being any different from other mass transit or monorail). And I see the stations being built inside buildings. Not over the street.
I don't read AC A human right
In Germany and Belgium, the equivalent is Cambio and the cost is about 1.75euro/h + 0.2euro/km. This is very competitive even wrt public transportation. Notice that the cars are typically (much) smaller than in the US.
A happy cambio user.
So I took a look at the Seattle-area prices for Flexcar and, low and behold, they have a special deal for University of Washington students. I'm guessing that no one in the Marketing department at Flexcar gave much thought to the moniker for that rate package, amusingly called 'UPASS'.
Hummm... 'UPASS'... it makes me wonder; are they trying to tell the student's what they are going to get for using that special rate, or are they suggesting amourous activities for couples in the back seat of their cars?
"To qualify for membership, you must: Be between the ages of 21 and 75 with five years driving experience and a valid driver's license"
In many large urban cities today, it is entirely possible to grow up as a teenager in the city, finish high school in the city, obtain a college degree in the city, and start a career in the city.
Since owning and operating a car in the city is not practical, this young adult would never realistically be able to obtain the five years of driving experience required to participate in FlexCar. But, isn't this true urban young adult the target subscriber of FlexCar?
How about ZipKids (tm) -- Kids when you want 'em. This would work out great for birth parents also, you could just put your kids up for lease during certain hours.
Considering the ammount of time one must look for a parking spot here in San Francisco, and the ammount of money required for parking tickets, I would not call *any* car "cheap".
I have been using a car sharing service in the Netherlands> for over four years now, and parking spots is the area where it shines.
In the Netherlands parking usually takes place on public roads. In the inner citys these parking spots are either taxed by the hour (coin- or card operated machine) or month (parking permit for residents). The fact that you want to pay (or have paid) for a spot however does not mean you can find one easily. I live in the inner city of Utrecht, where it is not uncommon to have to search half an hour for a spot, and I used to work in the inner city of Amsterdam, where it is a miracle to find any spot at all.
This is where the Greenwheels cars come in: they have their own, reserved, parking spots, both on public roads and in parking garages. Which is nice enough when you have to retrieve the car, and which is heaven sent when you have to return the car: no searching, no charge, no hassle.
http://www.craigslist.org/car/
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
$5 - Blowjob
$5 - backseat of Ford Fiesta for 1 hr
Returning the car with cum stains on the back of the seats?
Priceless.
I live in Cambridge, MA, and I used ZipCar for about three years. When I came to Boston from Kentucky, the first thing I noticed was that driving here really sucks. Besides that, I worked in the Back Bay neighborhood, and parking near work was $400 a month. Luckily, Boston has an excellent public transportation system, so for about $60 a month, I got a subway/bus pass. At that point, I realized that I was only driving two Saturdays a month. So, these two Saturdays were costing me $450 a month ($350 car payment & $100 a month insurance). It was officially cheaper to rent a car for those two days. So I got rid of my car.
This was two years before ZipCar came into existance. Renting a car from a traditional rental agency involves going to the agency during their working hours, standing in line (frequently 1/2 hour), filling out paperwork, and returning the car during working hours. It makes no sense to rent the car for less than a day. Thus when ZipCar started up, and the booking time became 5 minutes at home and you could book for a couple hours, it was huge.
It was only when I moved to the far west side of Cambridge, where it's easier to find a parking space near the house and there aren't 7 ZipCars within walking distance (in fact there isn't even 1) that I decided it was time to get a new car.
From a geek standpoint, the system is extremely cool. The company issues you a card key associated with your account. You reserve the car on-line. A cell based system in the car is alerted to let the car know when you've rented it. During your rental time your card key unlocks the doors and the ignition. You can continue to drive if you go past the quiting time, but they charge you $25 for being late. In Boston, you're always late because of traffic, so it's cheaper just to rent the car for 1/2 hour or hour more than you think you'll need it.
So in answer to some of the questions I've seen:
(1) Why don't you just take public transportation? I did 95% of the time.
(2) Is it reliable? Yes. The $25 late fee seems to insure that the car is back on time. I never had to wait for the car to be returned.
(3) Is it dirty? No. There is a $50 charge for trashing the car.
(4) Is it wrecked? For whatever reason, the cars had very few dings. If the car is in a serious accident, it is taken out of commission. The company contacts the current renters and rebooks them to different cars.
(5) Who does the maintenance / washes the cars? The company does. If you want to wash the car yourself, the company reimburses you.
(6) Does it make sense in every town? No, only in very dense cities that have good public transportation.
(7) Isn't it expensive? Not compared to the price of owning a car in a big city.
(8) Is it convenient? Yes. In Boston / Cambridge there are a ton of cars. Until I moved far enough away from the central part of the city, it was pretty easy to find a car near my home or work free at any given time (except holiday weekends).
(9) Will it impress a woman? No, but she lives in the city, too. Meet her at a coffee shop and then take her to a nice restaurant.
EasyCar had a similar scheme called Car Club in London that failed a few years ago. Supposedly the driver can book the car on the net, go to the car park, call the company and the car will be remotely unlocked. Not hard to imagine that it didn't work because unlocking doesn't work, nobody checks the car state on return and there was no real person you could talk to if there are (lots of!) problems.
Well there is the issue of your time. I don't know about you but I don't have the time to spend a lot of hours fixing a car. Also where I live (Israel) the taxes on cars are huge. A starter new car here costs like $20,000 USD. We take the bus and get rides with our friends.
Erlang Developer and podcaster
Don't know why such an article makes news in the US, but we've had successful car sharing over here for years. In Switzerland (mainly in urban regions), 58'000 people share ~1'800 cars. You make a reservation over phone or internet, then your membercard opens the car doors when your time has come (car exchanges data with the server using SMS / GSM text messaging) For each usage, you pay a price per km driven and per hour used, depending on car category. for a small car, this usually works out at something like 0.5 USD per km, larger ones 20-50% more. If you live in a place with good public transport, it's perfect.
So basically, what you are saying is that you are spending the same amount of money, but this way you don't actually end up owning anything?
Looks like he didn't end up owning anything in any of the two cases:
Then one day, my beast of burden sat down on the side of the road and died. There was no cure.
I briefly had a membership to Philly Car Share here in Philadelphia, as well as a trial membership to FlexCar in Seattle before that. I never used either one. Living in Philadelphia without a car, I expected to find Philly Car Share useful. But if you're in the car more than two hours, it's generally cheaper to rent a car for a full 24 hours from the highly competitive rental car industry, which is more than eager to put you behind the wheel at an attractive price. And if you're in the car less than two hours, it's doubtful that you are really traveling far enough from the center of the city that a taxicab won't do the job.
As for big-item shopping, the big-box stores on Columbus Boulevard offer delivery, and the taxicab companies can usually send station wagons if requested.
In an area with extensive public transportation, taxis, and competitive rental companies, the nice for car sharing is pretty close to nonexistent. I'd consider get a membership just to keep in practice driving, but now that I'm spending more overnights in Delaware, I'll be able to do that by renting a car on weekends (again, the car-sharing services charge much more for full nights or weekends than a regular rental car company).
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If you're in Québec, you can use Communauto. They've been in business for going on 10 years now I think.
I know I'm jumping in a little late here, but if anyone has any technical questions about the service (I work for Zipcar here in Boston), I'd be happy to take a shot at them.
There are lots of people complaining about the pricing -- here's my story with Zipcar in Boston.
My 1992 Saturn was falling apart on the streets -- between snow, getting sideswiped, looking for parking spaces (most people in the city don't have dedicated spots), and the fact that my car was 10 years old and had the usual 10-year-old car problems, it was quite a burden. I estimated that I spent about $150 per month on it all told (maintenance, parking tickets, gas, insurance) -- all so I could drive to the grocery store once a week. So enter Zipcar. They have nice cars (most are late-model VW's -- Jettas, Beetles -- if you want to pay a little more, you can even rent Minis and BMW 7-series cars!), and more importantly, their reserved spots are closer to my house than I was able to park my own car. I donated my piece-of-junk car to charity, canceled my insurance, and signed up. As for the pricing, my philosophy was that if I spent less than $150 per month, I was doing great -- and no headaches of car ownership. At $8.50 per hour, that's over 17 hours of driving -- needless to say, I haven't gotten close to that. If I plan ahead, I can get a normal rental car. I've figured that the break-even point between Zipcar and standard car rental (considering gas and insurance) is about 5 hours.
I also haven't seen it mentioned that Zipcar has agreements with several local businesses and universities. For example, MIT provides spots on campus and waives the application fees for grad students, faculty, and staff.
I think it's great to have a progressive, tech-friendly, environmental company around that actually improves my quality of life and saves me money.
We use PhillyCarShare and our experiences have been fantastic. We're about to sell our last of the two cars we owned a year ago.
OUR NEEDS
We live downtown (in Center City) and we can walk nearly everywhere, including to work, so we drive maybe once or twice a week on average. There are plenty of cabs and there's decent public transportation.
Car insurance is very expensive here, cars are constantly being side-swiped and broken into, and parking can be difficult to find.
In short, owning a car is not worth the hassle, if there's an alternative.
HOW WE USE IT
We probably use cabs as much as PhillyCarShare, because there's no parking to worry about, but we probably use it weekly on average: Really, it's a few times one week, then not at all for awhile.
We use it most for grocery shopping, but any time a cabs are impractical or unavailable, or if we have a lot of 'cargo', etc, we'll use CarShare.
OUR EXPERIENCES
Our main concern, when we started, was availability -- what if we need a car and none is available? That hasn't been a problem at all. Of course it's a function of supply and demand.
PhillyCarShare has been fantastic -- Service is in the 99th percentile of businesses I've patronized. The cars are clean and well cared for; operations such as scheduling, cust. svc issues, training, billing, etc. are very well thought out, well designed, professional and efficient; the service has been 100% reliable. The website is very efficient, and you can make reservations by phone, too.
Unlike the businesses in the article, PhillyCarShare is a non-profit, dedicated to helping and improving the community.
The most difficult issue is having a deadline for returning the car. They leave plenty of leeway for being late and you can extend your 'rental' (if nobody has scheduled the next time slot), but when you own your own car, there's no deadline. Also, walking a 4-6 blocks to the nearest PhillyCarShare car is not as convenient, but it's only a few minutes and doesn't bother us.
If you're travelling for a day or more, it's cheaper to rent, but they have deals with Avis and Enterprise that give us small discounts.
In all, we save money and eliminate many hassles: There's a reserved parking spot, they wash the car and handle maintenance, and we very rarely need to refill it (and gas is billed to their credit card).
INSURANCE
PhillyCarShare does not require members to have their own insurance, but provides its own. If a carshare organization you're considering does the same thing, I strongly recommend verifying that you are not left with any liability. Otherwise, an accident and/or injury could cost you hundreds of thousands or millions.
One of the local Vancouver newspapers ran a story a month or two ago suggesting that anyone who's had more than one or two accidents (and is therefore stuck with high insurance premiums), getting a gold card that offers free auto insurance and using it to rent a vehicle on a month-by-month basis may be cheaper than buying a car and insuring it. You avoid the up-front capitalization of a lease or purchase and don't have to worry about the lease termination fees. You also get to "trade-in" as often as you want. If you go away on vacation you just drop off the car and stop paying for it. It's not for everyone, but it certainly has some appeal.
Bwhahaha! Its damn true - I am a zip car wh0re! they even put one down stairs from where I live :)
I spend perhaps £50 per month on servicing. I do pretty much all the servicing and repairs myself - a full service (engine oil, hydraulic oil and filters, fuel and air filters, and inspecting brakes and stuff) takes a couple of hours on a dry-ish afternoon. All nice simple stuff. If you pay a garage to service your car, you are being ripped off.