Does the Octopus Hold the Key To Robot Design?

balancedi writes "Simultaneously controling 8 jointless arms without getting them all tangled up is a neat trick that octopuses do with ease. According to a National Geographic article several researchers from around the world think understanding the octopus holds to key to the optimal robot design."

Comments

True Story:

[BWJones]

Octopuses have intrigued scientists for years, because they have both long- and short-term memory, they remember solutions to problems, and they can go on to solve the same or similar problems. They have been known to climb aboard fishing boats and open holds in search of crabs. They can figure out mazes, open jars, and break out of their aquariums in search of food.

This part of the linked article rang very true for me.

True story:

Octopus are underrated. Seriously. I used to have an (Octopus bimaculoides) as a pet (her name was Cephus, short for Cephalopod) and I was always amazed at the intelligence and problem solving abilities she exhibited. One day I was returning from working all night at the sleep lab followed by a day of class. I had a new bag of goldfish to feed her and placed them in the "goldfish tank" across the table from her 100gal aquarium. She always got excited at that and would hang on the side of her tank and look at the goldfish. At any rate, I got a couple hours of sleep and then ran back to work for another all night shift. Upon stumbling back home the next day, I was stunned to find no goldfish in the goldfish tank! I did not know if I was just seriously sleep deprived or what, but closer inspection revealed goldfish scales floating around in Cephus's tank........and a trail of dried salt water on the table top from her tank to the goldfish tank. She had opened the top of her tank, navigated across the table to the goldfish tank, helped herself to every last goldfish in the goldfish tank and then crawled back home, closing the top of her tank! All I could do was stare in dumbfounded amazement.

She also exhibited curiosity with new objects placed into her tank, exploring them extensively, and I must admit, it is most interesting in that unlike other aquatic non mammalians.....when you looked into an octopus eye, they look back at you. There is something absolutely intelligent behind those eyes.

Re:True Story:

[mirko]

There is something absolutely intelligent behind those eyes.

3 brains...
So, could we say that 8(arms)=2^3(brains) ???

Re:True Story:

[JeanBaptiste]

I have fish, turtles, snakes, (and dogs and cats of course)

How would I go about getting an octopus? Are they expensive?

I've heard similar stories, that they are really quite intelligent.

Re:True Story:

[digitalchinky]

If you don't mind me asking, what happened to 'Cephus'? you speak of her in the past tense.

if I had mod points....

Re:True Story:

[mboverload]

Ever seen one of those nature specials? Jesus, they REALLY make you appriciate the abilities of those things. They can squeeze though like 3 inch diameter tubes to get to food, can climb out of a tank to get food, and just solve lots of problems.

I agree, probably one of the most underrated animals.

Re:True Story:

[nearlygod]

You expect a guy in a $3,000 dollar suit to beleive that? Come on!

Re:True Story:

[ackthpt]

3 brains...

I thought it was 3 hearts.

one for me, one for my baby and one more for the road

Re:True Story:

[antifoidulus]

They are also nutritious and delcious!

Re:True Story:

[Anonymous Coward]

Cephlapods don't tend to live long. Don't know about octopi, but a lot of small squid species only live 2 or 3 years.

Re:True Story:

[mirko]

You're right, I just had a "lapsus scripti"...
Anyway, the brain is known for its amazing level of development.

Re:True Story:

[avandesande]

caring for a salt water animal of any kind is a serious and expensive undertaking.

Also octopus only live a year so they aren't the best pets if you grow attached.

Re:True Story:

[NeoSkandranon]

I don't think your run of the mill octopus is that expensive...

However a salt-water setup suitable for it is going to cost you (unless you have that already, you did say you were into fish)

Re:True Story:

[Leroy_Brown242]

This has definately spurred my interest in getting a tank again. I've not had a tank in a long while.

Thanks a bunch. :)

Re:True Story:

[JeanBaptiste]

I don't currently have a salt water setup but I have in the past....

They only live a year though? That kind of sucks.

I've had my oldest turtle for 18 years now. (and he was an adult when I got him so I have no idea how old he actually is)

Re:True Story:

[Husgaard]

This sounds incredible, but is actually confirmed by the article:

They can figure out mazes, open jars, and break out of their aquariums in search of food.

Re:True Story:

[ajnsue]

So what exactly do you do in the tank if I may ask?

Re:True Story:

[dsginter]

(her name was Cephus, short for Cephalopod)

For a second there, I thought you were gonna say Bocephus.

Re:True Story:

[BWJones]

If you don't mind me asking, what happened to 'Cephus'? you speak of her in the past tense.

She died of old age. When I got her, I had found her on my SCUBA tank after we had returned home. She was soooo tiny (about the size of my thumbnail), and we were miles away from the ocean by that time. I did not want her to die, so we mixed up some artificial sea water and I carried her home to place her in a 100gal aquarium I had. Fed her with feeder goldfish, but clams and crabs purchased from the local pet store was what she really enjoyed. She lived about two years (which is very good for an octopus), grew to about 13 inches and finally died from old age.

Re:True Story:

[JavaLord]

Also octopus only live a year

Haha, you think you are smart Mr. Octopus? Come back and tell me about it next year!

Re:True Story:

[Profane MuthaFucka]

Turtles are on the other end of the scale. You'd better make a provision in your will for the care of the turtle after you die. I don't care of you're 18 years old, and you plan to live to be 100. If you take care of that turtle, it'll outlive you. I think that's pretty damn cool.

Re:True Story:

[Leroy_Brown242]

Some times I drive it around town. I get pulled over a lot, but I think it's worth not having to worry about traffic.

Re:True Story:

[Profane MuthaFucka]

It's octopussies, not ....

er, um, It's OK, Latin root, nevermind.

Re:True Story:

[Not_Wiggins]

She also exhibited curiosity with new objects placed into her tank, exploring them extensively, and I must admit, it is most interesting in that unlike other aquatic non mammalians.....when you looked into an octopus eye, they look back at you. There is something absolutely intelligent behind those eyes.

They say the large octopus has an intelligence equivalent to a housecat. Perhaps we don't relate to the intelligence of these creatures (ie, find it surprising when they demonstrate intelligent behavior) because we don't interact with them on a daily basis. I never think twice about the intelligence of my cats because they're so common. I'll tell you, though... I started thinking twice about eating "grilled octopus" at the local restaurant after finding out just how smart they are.

Re:True Story:

[mikael]

I have fish, turtles, snakes, (and dogs and cats of course) How would I go about getting an octopus? Are they expensive? While octopii do have strong arms and an extremely intelligent and curious minds, this invariable leads to their doom in captivity. Whenever they are bored or see something interesting, they try and explore their environment. Usually this involves pushing open the lid of the fishtank and climbing out. Unfortunately, they are not too good at climbing back in. This happened in the marine research laboratory my Dad worked for. No matter what size of the tank, the octopus would either attach its arms to one side of the tank and the lid and attempt to push the two apart. Or failing that, move into a corner of the tank, and attempt to prise two sides of the tank apart.

Re:True Story:

[mirko]

Except for the actual number of brains, my lapsus was right :)

Re:True Story:

[AviLazar]

same here....after hearing the story i want one. The only downside is their 1 year life span. but to have an octopus would rock - though I am thinking of the Alien movies and getting a bit freaked :D

Re:True Story:

[The_Mr_Flibble]

Yes from my limited experience they are a little too intelligent.
I was diving at a site over in spain and I was chatting to a few of the local divers I'd already dived their a couple of times already that season, they started joking about looking out for the octopi that lived in the area and to not let them get too close.
Fair enough thought I, so I got kitted up entered the water and was looking for these octopi when I see one so I go and have a nice close look. Not to close thought I next thing I know it's managed to remove my mask and make off with it.
Fair enough thought I so I release my bouy and make a controlled ascent as I didn't feel like continuing the dive sans mask.
upon breaking the surface I look towards the shore where the locals are having a good laugh at my expense.
So why did it remove my mask ?
Most people thought it was to get rid of any pesky diver snooping around others thought that it was collecting them and wanted to start a dive shop as it (assuming that it's the same one here)had also tried to remove regs with a little less success.

Had to go and buy a new mask though !

Re:True Story:

[homerito]

I seriously think that octopuses belong to the sea and they are not pets. I consider pets dogs and cats because they have been genetically modified (by us trought thousands of years) to be our companions.

Please leave the octopuses, lizards, snakes, iguanas, guacamayas, cacatuas, monkeys and others where they belong.

Re:True Story:

[MightyMartian]

How about cows?

Re:True Story:

[rramdin]

Actually, the word octopus derives from the Greek oktopous, -odos (unicode: o)kta/pous), so the plural is octopodes. Many of the words that stem from octopus have endings indicative of a Latin root in English, due to the misconception that it comes from the Latin octopus, -i.

Re:True Story:

[Tablizer]

they are a little too intelligent.

Just a little genetic tinkering, and we will be competing with coders who can use eight keyboards at a time. And you thought Indians were a threat.

Re:True Story:

[vasqzr]

Here's a video of an octopus attacking a crab

Re:True Story:

[Anonymous Coward]

Squeeze through a three inch hole?? No, that's not "squeezing" at all. I scuba dive locally in So. California a few days a week. If I see a bottle (beer, wine, vodka,.) I always look inside. Many times I'll find an octopus filing as much as 1/3 of the bottle. They have no trouble fitting through the neck of a beer bottle

Re:True Story:

[NanoGator]

" She had opened the top of her tank, navigated across the table to the goldfish tank, helped herself to every last goldfish in the goldfish tank and then crawled back home, closing the top of her tank!"

Heh!

When I was a kid I saw video of a dude that put a crab into a mason jar, screwed the lid, and put it in the tank with an octopus. The thing worked on it for a bit, then wrapped it's tentacles around the lid, did a surprising spinny trick, and feasted on crab. I got in trouble with my mom for shouting "Damn!"

Re:True Story:

[Anonymous Coward]

So let's genetically modify octopuses for thousands of years to be our companions.

Re:True Story:

[NanoGator]

Hmm I'm not sure how to ask this question, but I'll give it a shot:

Did Cephus show any signs of being able to identify you personally? Did she ever react to you in a special way (i.e. letting you hold her)?

I think the real reason I'm asking is that you seem to hold Cephus in really high regard. I was wondering if that was because she was simply interesting, or if it's because there was a bit of a bond there?

Re:True Story:

[Anonymous Coward]

Now, if you want to get really freaked, buy this!

Re:True Story:

[Anonymous Coward]

Just drop a Rubik's cube in there with it. That should keep it entertained.

Re:True Story:

[NanoGator]

"Here's a video of an octopus attacking a crab"

Wow.. that was a LOT like watching Oz...

Re:True Story:

[sponga]

My pet rock last forever and never seems to stray away.

Re:True Story:

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, but you've got to waterproof the keyboards... And how hard is that?! So, all of those genetically modified super intelligent octopi will be without jobs until we overcome that HUGE technological hurdle... Ha ha!

Re:True Story:

[NeoSkandranon]

What species?

I've kept box turtles but never longterm. Keep telling myself I"m going to get a sulcata or some other tortise one of these days (like when I move out of my apartment)

Re:True Story:

[Tackhead]

> Squeeze through a three inch hole?? No, that's not "squeezing" at all. I scuba dive locally in So. California a few days a week. If I see a bottle (beer, wine, vodka,.) I always look inside. Many times I'll find an octopus filing as much as 1/3 of the bottle. They have no trouble fitting through the neck of a beer bottle

Proving not only that octopi are clever problem-solvers, but that they can remain clever problem solvers despite drinking like fish?

Re:True Story:

[justkarl]

While real octopus only last a year, my giant robot octopus will last forever.....mwahahaha

Re:True Story:

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll tell you, though... I started thinking twice about eating "grilled octopus" at the local restaurant after finding out just how smart they are.

There are plenty of food animals that are smarter than housecats. Pigs are far smarter (so I've heard).

Re:True Story:

[Hard_Code]

As far as I know, cows have also gone various forms of breeding and domestication and are nothing like their "wild" forms. This is why there aren't any "wild" cows. There are bison, but not "wild cows".

Re:True Story:

[BWJones]

Did Cephus show any signs of being able to identify you personally?

Yes. She would change color when I came into the room or house and would always move to the top of the tank. I could reach into the tank and she would reach out and grab my fingers/hand. When others would enter the room, she often hid.

I think the real reason I'm asking is that you seem to hold Cephus in really high regard.

It was an educational experience that I will never forget. I've seen sharks and other fish in the ocean, and with the exception of dolphins, whales, seals, and the octopus, I've never seen signs of intelligence. The other aspect of the octopus is that they are so otherworldly in appearance and behavior. Changing colors/textures, curiosity, excellent vision, preferences for things they like and dislike..... It is as close as most of us will ever come to meeting an alien.

Re:True Story:

[tomjen]

Giant turtles can live up to 200 years - quite some time if you ask me.

Dont expect to see that turtle die - if you take care of it properly.

Re:True Story:

[BWJones]

Excellent find. This footage is fairly typical of an immature octopus attack on prey. Notice also the rapid color change from the background rocks to match the color and texture of the prey item (crawfish), once the octopus has contacted it.

Re:True Story:

[spectre_240sx]

Just let us know when it starts looking back at you.

Re:True Story:

[BWJones]

I got in trouble with my mom for shouting "Damn!"

LOL! Yes indeed that is pretty much the same thing I said when I saw my first octopus attack its prey by circling around behind a rock and attack from behind after showing itself to the prey from the front. Strategy! shows logic and an understanding of action and consequence.

By the way, I would like to see that footage. Is it available on the Internet?

Re:True Story:

[lawpoop]

"They say the large octopus has an intelligence equivalent to a housecat."

I hate these animal intelligence equivalency metaphors. Of course, it's good to a point - it tells Joe Blow that an Octopus is not a soft, dumb crab. But, octopuses excel at figuring out mazes, picking locks, escaping cages, and most importantly hiding evidence of this from their keepers.

I've never met a cat that cared two licks about any other sentient create around it, including cats. (I think they care about one lick). I honestly don't think cats have as much social intelligence as, say, dogs, people, orangutans, or octopuses. They just aren't as 'aware' of 'others' as other animals are. You could argue that they are aware, but they don't care -- I disagree. Intelligence is not a linear scale, like an IQ test. In this respect, I think that the intelligence of octopuses are qualitatively different than cats. All cats seem to be able to do is groom and hunt.

Re:True Story:

[Johnny5000]

Actually, the word octopus derives from the Greek oktopous, -odos (unicode: o)kta/pous), so the plural is octopodes. Many of the words that stem from octopus have endings indicative of a Latin root in English, due to the misconception that it comes from the Latin octopus, -i.

From Wikipedia:
A note on the plural form: Fowler's Modern English Usage states that "the only acceptable plural in English is octopuses", and that octopi is misconceived and octopodes pedantic. The Oxford English Dictionary lists octopuses, octopi, and octopodes (the order reflecting decreasing frequency of use), stating that the last form is rare.

Re:True Story:

[JeanBaptiste]

It's a Reeves turtle.
They're from Asia. Here's a link to a pic. The one in the pic isn't mine but it looks the same.

Re:True Story:

[Profane MuthaFucka]

No octopussies?

Re:True Story:

[null etc.]

The only downside is their 1 year life span.

Get a new octopus every 6 months. Put the new octopus in with the old octopus, and see if the old one teaches the new one any tricks.

Re:True Story:

[XMyth]

Are you sure it's not dead?

Re:True Story:

[BLAG-blast]

It is as close as most of us will ever come to meeting an alien.

Pass the probe and make the biped bend over, Captian Xphooerxxzxc.

Re:True Story:

[Not_Wiggins]

I've never met a cat that cared two licks about any other sentient create around it, including cats.

Hey... I didn't choose the animal (cat) for comparison, I was just sharing something I heard. This site makes the same reference... I'm sure one could find more.

Re:True Story:

[Politburo]

I seriously think that octopuses belong to the sea and they are not pets. I consider pets dogs and cats because they have been genetically modified (by us trought thousands of years) to be our companions.

Sorry, but that doesn't make a damn bit of sense. It's either right or it's wrong to have an animal as a pet. You can't say "oh well our ancestors made these animals pets so they're okay."

If our ancestors had your attitude, we wouldn't have dogs, cats, cows, pigs, donkeys, horses, chickens, etc., as we know them.

So long as the animal is not threatened/endangered, it's captivity poses minimal risk to other living organisms (this includes humans, other animals and plants), and the habitat provided is proper, I don't see any reason to place arbitrary restrictions on what animals can be pets.

Re:True Story:

[tgd]

There's a tasteless joke about grilled cat here... but I just can't put my finger on it...

Re:True Story:

[Nopal]

That's interesting. I have a tank of African Chichlids, and some do seem to identify all of our family members.

When I and/or my wife and daughters at home the fish are usually swimming about, without a care in the world. When there is a visitor, say, a friend of mine that I haven't seen in awhile, the fish will hide and hardly show themselves. I've had some of those fish for nearly a decade (some chichlids can live for several decades), but I didn't start noticing that behaviour until a couple of years ago.

I don't think that chichlids are nearly as intelligent as octopi, but I'm still amazed that they seem to display that particular behavior.

Re:True Story:

[IWannaBeAnAC]

I think he meant, there are stranger things in the sea but the chances of anyone other than a handful of scientist/explorers ever seeing any is zero.

Re:True Story:

[Anonymous Coward]

If you don't like cats, thats just because you never had em BBQ'd

Re:True Story:

[doombob]

Sounds like someone's in loooOOOOOOooooove!

Re:True Story:

[gardyloo]

Also octopus only live a year so they aren't the best pets if you grow attached.

I think the attachment bit is up to the octopus... Unless you're a total sucker, of course.

Re:True Story:

[PatientZero]

You sound like a dog person that hates cats. I love both animals (cats and dogs), and I certainly understand your point that there are different types of intelligence (problem-solving, social, technical, musical). But you seem to be offended by the implication that cats are intelligent. I may be wrong, but that's how I read your post.

I'll say one thing about cats, though. I've had four as pets over the years, and each and every one of them knew that the plural of octopus is octopi! :p

Re:True Story:

[AviLazar]

thats just wrong on so many levels :)

There were some studies done where they injected brain matter of trained rats into the stomach of new rats (not related in any other way) and the new rats automatically learned the old rats tricks....kinda neat (and freaky).

Re:True Story:

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to agree with part of what you say here. Based upon what I've read and seen, I would not have so intelligent a creature for a pet unless I could be sure that such creature was in agreement.

Now that having been said, I can make my own choice and not have an octopus for a pet. Whether I do or not is none of your damn business, because you don't own me.

WERD.

Re:True Story:

[drinkypoo]

Personally, I eat octopus raw. I am one of those dog people that doesn't like cats, but I do think they have their purposes. Really I would eat dogs if I didn't like them, although I admit that would be a little creepy. Still, people have been eating dogs for a long time. I know, you're going to bring up cannibalism next, right? Anyway cats are ruthless little bastards, which is why I don't like 'em. I also don't think they're all that bright. Mostly, they have style.

I would like to have an octopus, though. We're starting a 50 gallon saltwater tank, but I think I'll leave the octopus thing for later. Quite a bit later :)

Re:True Story:

[Anonymous Coward]

Just because it's pedantic doesn't mean it's wrong. -1 for FMEU.

Re:True Story:

[Anonymous Coward]

My pet rock only lasted a couple billion years, then it turned into another type of rock.

Re:True Story:

[lawpoop]

Sorry! I'm not blaming you. Hate the system, not the geek ;)

Re:True Story:

[PatientZero]

I think the point is that dogs and cats derive pleasure from being companions to humans (my assumption from observing all of my pets over the years) while other animals haven't been domesticated similarly. True, you can say that our ancestors harmed the original cats and dogs by domesticating them, but they are long since dead, and their offspring benefit from being around humans and we benefit from them.

I don't think this carries over to farm animals simply because we kill and eat them! Maybe the animals on old-school family farms where the animals are treated humanely and then killed swiftly with respect live happy lives, but today's factory farms are sick and demented. The animals are tormented from birth to slaughter. If you haven't, check out The Meatrix.

Re:True Story:

[drinkypoo]

Of course, if you have a big enough tank, all you need is a bigger pump (or another pump) a hygrometer, and a willingness to buy the fancy salt. We just scored all that stuff cheaply (including a 50 gallon tank) because my chica works in a pet store. All we need now is to wait for the water to balance and heat up. A protein skimmer is coming next, and I have a RO filter system that I just need to plumb in. I plan to automate the whole thing...

Re:True Story:

[Anonymous Coward]

Must have raised them with dogs. My cats know it's octopodes.

Though their initial response was "tasty".

Re:True Story:

[StalinsNotDead]

My pet rock last forever and never seems to stray away.

If it ever did run away, you'd know you had to do something seriously offensive.

Re:True Story:

[lawpoop]

You're right, I am a dog person who hates cats. I am not offended by the idea that cats are intelligent -- they certainly are. The problem I have is saying that an octopus is as intelligent as a housecat. I understand that works for telling someone who doesn't care about animal intelligence that an octopus is not a rock, but it implies that intelligence is quantitative (i.e. that housecats and octopuses both scored '40') on an intelligence test, where in reality, housecats and octopuses are very intelligent *in different areas*.

So if you tell someone that an octopus is as smart as a housecat, they wouldn't conclude that an octopus can pick a lock, open a jar, escape an aquarium, etc. (Maybe if cats knew how to do those things they wouldn't need so many lives). By the same token, I'm certain that cats are really smart about something, they just don't go out of their way to show it off ;)

In any case, the plural of the greek word octopus is octopodes, and futhermore, when we borrow words from other languages, we only borrow words, not grammar structures (Is the plural of sauna saunaa or saunat? It is in Finnish). So the plural of the English word octopus is octopuses, just like any other regular English word that ends in -s. This just confirms my suspicion that cats are holier-than-thou pompous jerkwads.

Re:True Story:

[brunes69]

You just haven't met the right cats.

I have an 8 month old kitten who is very smart... too smart for his own good! Despite all our discipline whenever we catch him on top of the cupboard, I still come home some days to see how he has

a) Jumped onto the counter (a feat in and of itself, when you consider it is about 10 times his height. you try that!)

b) Open the closed cupboard

c) Pick up a bag of straws, and drag them to the floor.

d) Take our a straw, and bring it to his bed, so that he can play with it.

He alsy knows exactly when I am going to get up, so that he can run and meet me at the bedroom door and whine for food. And he seems to be totally aware of whenI am and when I am not looking at him, so that he can "be bad" - the second I turn to look at what he is doing, or walk into the room, he stops whatever he was doing!

Re:True Story:

[BlueCodeWarrior]

Plus, you can always just blame GTA, and Rockstar will end up having to pay your ticket ;)

Re:True Story:

[Tablizer]

Yeah, but you've got to waterproof the keyboards...until we overcome that HUGE technological hurdle

Why is it huge? Put a water-proof rubberish membrane around it. No revolutionary breakthrus there.

Re:True Story:

[StalinsNotDead]

I think I read somewhere that the size limitation of a hole an octopus can squeeze through is only limited by the diameter of its eye and/or beak. As those are the most rigid part of the animal.

Re:True Story:

[PatientZero]

No worries. Microsoft is so very close to perfecting their Pr0n Surfer Elite(tm) keyboard that will be useful here.

Re:True Story:

[tf23]

I had a puffer fish that would recognize people. It's amazing to see a fish like that go into a frenzy when you walk in the door.

Re:True Story:

[wobblie]

another anecdote:

A friend of mine worked in an aquarium store as a kid. There was an octupus in one of the tanks.

One day, many of the expensive fish started "dissappearing". The owner immediately suspected the employees and installed security cameras.

The cameras revealed the octopus was crawling out of its tank, eating the fish, and crawling back.

Re:True Story:

[lawpoop]

I'm not saying that cats aren't socially aware, they just aren't as sophisticated as others. For instance, a dog will do bad things when the owner is away, but when the owner returns the dog will act doeful and become extra submissive when confronted with evidence. They are feeling guilt, and they have enough social grey matter to know that the owner will *conclude from evidence* that they are guilty. In your case the cat seems to think "out of sight, out of mind", and that the owner isn't smart enough or aware enough to put two and two together when s/he finds evidence of the cat misbehaving. Or else the cat just doesn't care.

So I submit that dogs have a more sophisticated theory of mind, or at the very least feel 'subscribed' to a human justice code, whereas the cat either isn't aware, or else is aware and just doesn't care.

There was a case of an organutan how managed to pick the lock of its cage at a zoo. A person visited the zoo noticed that the orang was able to do it -- the orang was smart enough not to do it in front of any zookeeper! But it apparently didn't think the zoo visitor would care. This shows that the orang was smart enough to recognise zookeepers -- people weaing the uniform. I don't know if cats can recognize classes of people likewise.

In regards to your amazing cat,
a.) jumping is not a feat of intelligence
b.) this is no diffferent than picking up a leaf to uncover hiding prey
c.) ditto b's critique, and
d.) so he treats a straw like a mouse. Big deal.

Cats are agile, dextrous, acrobatical, excellent hunters, all that -- just not very bright.

Re:True Story:

[BLAG-blast]

All cats seem to be able to do is groom and hunt.

They can bury poo as well!

Not only that, but cats have been know to seize control of the occational country. Don't give cats the vote.

Not sure about how much cats care for people. But cats do bring people presents and gifts, atleast all the cats (male and female) that I've lived with. Normally small mice, gloves, snakes, the odd balloon. But one time when I was very young, my family was poor and food as short, the cat brought home large rabit, large than it's self, large enough to feed everybody (2 adults, one 4 year old and cat) for a couple of days. Rabit pie, that helped.

Re:True Story:

[drinkypoo]

It is as close as most of us will ever come to meeting an alien.

That's true. Michael Jackson probably isn't taking very many visitors right now.

Re:True Story:

[drinkypoo]

We got a ten year old Citron Cockatoo from some people who weren't taking proper care of it. I'm 27. The bird could live up to 115 years... I have to have offspring just to care for my parrot :\

Re:True Story:

[NanoGator]

"By the way, I would like to see that footage. Is it available on the Internet?"

Not that I know of. Sadly, all I remember was that I was watching PBS. Not even sure what show it was.

BTW, I really appreciate you answering my other question about Cephus. Sorry to hear she's gone.
If ya ever get another one, might I recommand the name ba-gaaaaaawk?

Re:True Story:

[bogado]

Cats are not ruthless, they just do what they like when they are up to. They don't consider people as their masters also, they are companions. They will love you and ask for your company, if they like you.

The problem here is that dogs show affection to everyone and their brother. So people assume that they are smarter.

Cats don't need to be trained to be smart, my cat learned on her own how to open (unlocked) doors by jumping at the knob. They will show clearly that they know what you consider wrong and will hide when they messed up.

Let me only make it clear that I don't have anything against dogs, I do think their are cute and also smart (I've seen dogs who know that they have messed up also). But "dog people" never show the same respect for the kittens, and this makes me somewhat mad (at the people, not at the pets).

Re:True Story:

[homerito]

Well, our ancestors were only a couple of million in the whole planet. Now we are in the billions so we need to think more about nature-balance.

did you read? http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/02/11/02 55238&tid=153&tid=103&tid=14/
Also, the most probable theory on how dogs turned into humans pets is that it happened by accident when wolfs had to become tamer to eat from the human garbage. Theories that talk about how our ancestors went and kidnap a puppy wolf and domesticate it make no sense. In that time you would be pretty busy just hunting, mating, fighting to mate and escaping predators (being a geek by then must have sucked big time). Domesticating a pet would take a lot of resources, so its more probable it happened by accident.

I do not know about the theories on how we domesticated cows or other animals that we eat and you mention. but it seems to me that would happen after we developed agriculture and got some time extra??? (just speculating here)

Re:True Story:

[Marxist Hacker 42]

Intelligence- yes. Sentience- not sure. We know octopi have intelligence. We know they have manipulation abilities. But the third requirement for Sentience is communication- anybody have any examples of one octopi teaching another octopi something?

Re:True Story:

[Marxist Hacker 42]

Maybe the animals on old-school family farms where the animals are treated humanely and then killed swiftly with respect live happy lives, but today's factory farms are sick and demented.

I grew up on just such an old school family farm- always sickened our guests because we knew the NAME of the beef we were eating. I don't buy that factory farm crap output, because it is crap. Really bad for you. Factory farm animals are raised in small pens on high fat content feed- to increase their weight at market. 30% fat is not unusual for factory farm beef. My brother's beef, on the other hand, you need to add olive oil to if it's not going to stick to the pan or the grill- there's that little fat content in it.

Our animals were always treated as pets growing up- then eaten....and the cycle of life continues.

Re:True Story:

[nelsonal]

I think that's mostly a result of dogs and people being "pack" animals with highly ritualistic and complex social structure, while cats are solitary hunters. It's highly likely that the concept that others would care about their behavior (with the exception to feeding/care for them) is almost totally inconcievible to a cat, assuming you could explain it to them in meows. Cats are the least domesticated of our house pets, as they only began living around us because they knew it was good hunting, and we soon learned that having a cat around meant less spoilage due to rodents. Dogs probably came for the same early reasons, but both of our pack instincts brought the interactions to a much higher level over time. While there are still plenty of cats, we had two, who have about the same relationship as early cats did to early humans (they kept the mice down, and we didn't harass them). I've no idea what octopuses social structure is like, but I'd be willing to guess that they aren't solitary creatures.

Re:True Story:

[ajnsue]

Yes as the rats get older they get a noticeable aversion to needles

Re:True Story:

[aluminumcube]

http://www.octopets.com/

Re:True Story:

[Leibherk]

not sure if it works under water but it does say water proof....

Re:True Story:

[lawpoop]

"They can bury poo as well!"

I classify that under 'grooming'.

That's really interesting about the cat bringing food. I studied a little bit about cat domestication, and the current hot theory is that they hung around rodent-infested graineries in Egypt to the point where they became tolerant of people and vice versa. I suspect, as an evolutionist, that when cats 'present gifts', they actually aren't thinking that they are giving something to their master; instead they are just following an instinct that's been bred into them by selection in domestication. In other words, cats that caught mice were given bonuses (like saucers of milk) by people, so that gene was selected for. Cats that misbehaved were killed. However, your story seems to suggest that cats actually think/feel that they are giving food to people.

Re:True Story:

[drinkypoo]

Some cats are fairly bright, but most of them aren't all that swift. I honestly think the problem is the lack of brain mass in their case. It seems that the larger cats (by breed, not eating habits) seem to be more intelligent in general. I like the feline independence, but I don't particularly care for the rapid mood swings :)

If you train your dog well, and you show it the proper attitude, and if it's not a particularly friendly breed, then it won't necessarily love all over everyone. Most people just encourage their dogs to be friendly, and they want to do what their leader tells them...

Re:True Story:

[StalinsNotDead]

Get a new octopus every 6 months. Put the new octopus in with the old octopus, and see if the old one teaches the new one any tricks.

Probable tricks learned by the new octopus:

1-Hide from the older octopus so as to avoid death

2-Kill and eat the older octopus

Re:True Story:

[lawpoop]

The last point you bring up about octopuses is very interesting. Octopuses are solitary creatues. Previous theory supposed that living in co-operative groups is what makes a creature intelligent (that seems to be true for us), but such examples as the ant (highly social, but as dumb as a rock) and orangutans and octopuses (which are solitary and very socially aware) are evidence against that theory. Orangs are the smartest animal in the zoo -- they are so smart that when zoo keepers invent new cages, they test them with orangutans. If they can't get out, no one else can. Orangutans, despite spending most of thier time alone, except for mating and mother-infant child rearing, are very aware of human social structure, and will conceal escape attempts from zoo keepers.

What I'm getting to is this is why I think cats are stupid. There are solitary animals that are smarter, such as organs and octopuses. Both of those creatues have enough 1. social intelligence to recognize individual people, conceal evidence from them, hide escape attempts and cladestine feeding, and 2. object manipulation intelligence, for maze solving, lock picking, cage escaping, etc. Cats are good at neither of these.

I guess I'm biased. Maybe cats have as much social awareness and just don't *care*, but how would that evolve? I think that's incorrectly personifying. I think rather, since cats aren't aware of human or other social hierarchy, they act in a manner that seems *cool* or uncaring to a creature that is aware of social hierarchy, such as a person. How would awareness of social structure benefit the reproductive success of a cat?

Furthermore, with object manipulation, I guess cats are good hunters, which means that they have to have a sophisticated understanding of prey psychology -- how/when a prey animal becomes aware of being stalked, what its reaction will be, where it will try to run, etc. Obviously this is more complicated than the simple physics of inanimate objects such as cages and locks.

Re:True Story:

[Dan Hayes]

Actually domesticated cats have some of the most complex social networks of any animal. Each different area with cats in it forms a different type of social network dependent on the cats there - some areas are controlled by a single alpha male, some consist of several equal cats with their own territories and so on.

Your mistake is that dogs are pack animals and so behave in a very different way than cats do. With cats you are either their "parent" in a sense or not and it makes a lot of difference. There are plenty of true stories of cats travelling hundreds of miles to return to their owners, you can't automatically say that dogs are more loyal or social than cats. It's more that dogs are wired to be that way whereas cats need to be reared to be like that.

Re:True Story:

[Dan Hayes]

It's what kittens do with their mothers while they're learning to hunt. If you've formed a bond with your cat it will treat you almost as a parent and thus exhibit all kinds of behaviours that normally only happen between kitten and mother, such as letting you stroke its belly.

Re:True Story:

[Eternauta3k]

That's why evolution keeps us from drinking milk.

Re:True Story:

[Aeiri]

But, octopuses excel at figuring out mazes, picking locks, escaping cages, and most importantly hiding evidence of this from their keepers.

I wonder if you put a camera in the room (tiny, computer controlled, from a very secure computer), will a couple of hours of video just disappear from your logs one day? If so, then I guess Microsoft needs to employ these guys to locate security vulnerabilities...

Re:True Story:

[barna]

I've never met a cat that cared two licks about any other sentient create around it, including cats. (I think they care about one lick). I honestly don't think cats have as much social intelligence as, say, dogs, people, orangutans, or octopuses. They just aren't as 'aware' of 'others' as other animals are.

Yeah right, buddy, that's quite a statement there. You really are the expert on cats, that I can tell right away... You hate cats and you have never met one that cared about her environment? You perhaps made them feel that you hate cats (trust me, cats are HIGHLY sensitive creatures to things like that) and so (rightly) they didn't adore you like a dog would, getting an instant orgasm when you move your little finger. So you conclude that, "All cats seem to be able to do is groom and hunt."

Let me tell you that there is no such cat you describe, OK? (Unless she has some mental screwup - done to her by humans most of the time). All cats are very aware of and extremely interested in their environment. Just observe how cats strategically choose to lounge on the spot in the house where they can observe the most rooms and people.

You could argue that they are aware, but they don't care -- I disagree.

I argue that they are very aware and they care very much. You just perhaps don't perceive it because their behavior is much more subtle than you would expect from a "dumb cat", eh? And you disagree on what grounds? You certainly don't seem to have enough experience to have a qualified opinion on this topic - all you have is prejudice.

There's a quote by Mark Twain: "It is just like man's vanity and impertinence to call an animal dumb because it is dumb to his dull perceptions. You made me think of it.

Re:True Story:

[BLAG-blast]

When they come, they will eat you first.

I did apply for the position of ROV Tiburon pilot once, but like so many other very technical loosers I have a hard time writing resumes and cover letters, by time I got something together than wasn't a complete joke the position was filled. ;-(

Imagine going to sea and playing video games all day, but it's real, you will see things that don't have names because nobody else has seen them... Oh well.

I'll just continue building my own submarine.

Re:True Story:

[Eternauta3k]

Pigs are far smarter (so I've heard).

and CORRUPT!

Re:True Story:

[darquewing]

I just wanted to say that all cats are not ruthless.

I have a Mancoon that lives with me and my family and is one of the smartest animals I have known to date.

Thus far, he will stay with my 2-yr old daughter whenever she is sick, and won't let her out of her sight. She prefers to sleep on the bed with me and my wife, or lay on the couch with us after work.

Also she will open the garage door to go to her litter box. If she can't, she'll find me or my wife to open it for her. Stormy also likes to drink from the faucet and will be: on the bathroom sink in the morning right when we finish brushing our teeth, on the kitchen counter before we finish washing dishes, and back in the bathroom when we start getting ready for bed.

I have never seen her drink form her bowl.

She will also PLAY with our daughter (2 yrs old).. This is truly different for most cats, as she enjoys spending time with our child. My daughter has often used Stormy as a pillow while watching a movie.

So there may be some slow cats, but there are usually a lot more slow dogs. Cats exhibit far more personality and adaptation to their environment on their own, without having to be trained.

Re:True Story:

[lawpoop]

"Yeah right, buddy, that's quite a statement there. You really are the expert on cats, that I can tell right away... You hate cats and you have never met one that cared about her environment?... trust me, cats are HIGHLY sensitive creatures to things like that..."

OK, surely as a slashdot poster you respect the scientific method? There is no way I will base my beliefs on trusting other people. I am a skeptic as far as cat social sensitivity. I agree that they are great hunters and I think that they probably analyse a room strategically, but what evidence do you present that they are understanding a social map of a room (or have any concept of a 'room' at all, which is a reification of a social group? I am currently living with cats , and while they seem to respect *individuals*, I haven't had any experience showing that they have any concept of group or heirarchy. How do I know you aren't incorrectly personifying cats because of your personal predilections?

So, aside from trusting you, what evidence can you present me with that cats are socially aware, meaning aware of groups as collections of individuals?

Re:True Story:

[lawpoop]

" With cats you are either their "parent" in a sense or not"

You just made my point. With a cat, you are either parent or not. They have no brotherhoods, fraternities, gangs, or groups. They have no social awareness. They are aware of other individuals, and self aware, but have no awareness of societies, meanings groups of individuals.

Re:True Story:

[Mortlath]

I don't know..... I can imagine some little child saying to his/her parents, "I found this abandoned wolf pup. Can we keep it? please?"

Re:True Story:

[PatientZero]

Nice. How can we get back to that kind of farming? That's a question I've had for a long time.

My uncle's cattle have it even better -- he raises them only as prized studs, not food. What a great job (being the stud)! :)

Re:True Story:

[Anonymous Coward]

Just for fun, "pous" means foot, which explains the rest of the name... also Oedipus (pierced-foot)

Re:True Story:

[Hognoxious]

Better yet, drop four of them in.

Re:True Story:

[Hognoxious]

I consider pets dogs and cats because they have been genetically modified (by us trought thousands of years) to be our companions.

Really? Some bioligists consider the domestic dog and the wolf to be the same species.

Re:True Story:

[Hognoxious]

I'm lactose intolerant, you insensitive clod!!!!

Re:True Story:

[Mattcelt]

Well I, for one, welcome our new oct......

aww fuckit, who am I kidding?

Re:True Story:

[Anonymous Coward]

Cats that misbehaved were killed.

First, killing a cat in oldy Egypt was punishable by death (accord to history books). Second, I've never met a cat that didn't misbehaved. ;)

Re:True Story:

[Marxist Hacker 42]

Nice. How can we get back to that kind of farming? That's a question I've had for a long time.

I've got a few good ideas- but they both drive the free traitors and the libertarians crazy:

Limit beef in the United States to be sold to the consumer within the state where it was raised- no interstate beef shipments, no cheap labor states competing with expensive labor states, no huge factories in the midwest selling to the big cities on the coasts.

Cut farm subsidies for any company/farm that exports outside of the United States- farm subsidies were supposed to be to maintain domestic control over the food supply, not to give agribusinesses a cheaper price than small substinence farmers in thrid world nations.

Limit growers to one head per half acre of land- correct grazing ratio, no larger herds allowed.

But like I said, all of these suggestions would drive the free market Randroids nuts. Our best bet WITHIN the free market structure is:

Find a local grower of organic beef. Inspect his farm yearly. Get a good sized freezer and buy from him once a year- a quarter beef can easily feed a family of four for a year, and at current small town butchering rates, is about half the cost of what you get in the grocery store.

Re:True Story:

[Feztaa]

Jumped onto the counter (a feat in and of itself, when you consider it is about 10 times his height. you try that!)

I don't like it when animals are compared to humans in this way, making humans look inadequate. My "favorite" example is how a flea can jump 50 times it's body length, which would be equivalent to a human jumping however many football fields it works out to. The fact is, a flea jumping 50 times it's body length is not that impressive, because fleas don't weigh 200 lbs!

Same thing with your cat. It's not impressive that your cat can jump 10 times his height, because he weighs very little and his legs were made for jumping like that.

Re:True Story:

[MightyMartian]

> I'm lactose intolerant, you insensitive clod!!!!

That's too bad. Have some ice cream.

Re:True Story:

[Mattcelt]

when we borrow words from other languages, we only borrow words, not grammar structures

Not so fast. For starters, in most English examples, borrowing structures is quite analagous to simply borrowing more words, so the distinction there is rather arbitrary.

In order to borrow a grammar structure, we would have to apply that structure to words which had a different origin. For instance, the Gaeilge (Irish Gaelic) plural of garda (police) is gardi. To apply this grammar to an 'English' word, like idea, would make the plural idei instead of ideas.

Further, there are plenty of examples of borrowed words which have retained (among other things) their singular/plural distinction in English. Datum/data, alumnus/alumna/alumni, stratum/strata, criterion/criteria, beau/beaux, cactus/cacti, nucleus/nuclei, terminus/termini, syllabus/syllabi and many others. (Most of these are Latin and Greek, but we do get it from other languages too. I just can't think of any right now.)

Re:True Story:

[iNetRunner]

Have you read Manifold: Time? Baxter may have been to something.. *I thought that the choice of the pilot was a little strange when I read it.. Though it made sense.*

..Plus, its a damn good book.. Freaking awesome really.. *Too bad the rest where quite not as good..*

Re:True Story:

[Rolo Tomasi]

Well fuck me Tommy. What have you been reading?

Re:True Story:

[Moofie]

Why are you worried about how other people live and shop and eat? You go buy local beef, and leave the rest of us out of your predilections.

I like to buy meat from reputable local butchers. I used to work for one, and I got spoiled.

Re:True Story:

[d474]

All your octopi, are belong to us...nope.
Imagine a Beowulf cluster of octopus arms...nope.
In Soviet Russia, the arms have eight bodies...nope.

Hey, I tried. Octupi just aren't funny.

Re:True Story:

[Kafir]

I've got a few good ideas... Limit beef in the United States to be sold to the consumer within the state where it was raised...

I don't think you'd have to be a libertarian extremist for this to drive you nuts- the more than a million Rhode Islanders, for instance, who live in a state with only 8,000 head of cattle, might also have some complaints. I'm not sure that making beef a luxury item for the eastern seaboard while simultaneously destroying the economy of Wyoming has much appeal for anyone except Marxist daydreamers like yourself.

And that's not even considering the black market you'd create in smuggled beef - unless you want checkpoints and searches at all state border crossings. (Which, incidentally, is one of the problems with creating the kind of control economy you apparently envision - though an article on octopi and robot design probably isn't the place for that discussion.)

Re:True Story:

[barna]

Yeah um... this cuts both ways. Your statements in your original post are far from being scientific evidence.

To me it seems that your concept of social superiority is too rigid. Who says that operating on the basis of groups/hierarchies (=certain individuals being 'above' or 'below' others) is superior to not giving a damn about any of these things? Actually if you ask me, the "pack leader" concept of dogs / wolves (and the alpha male, pecking order, etc. concepts of other animals) seem pretty primitive to me, when compared to the complex relationships cats can have with each other and other animals as well (including humans). These relationships include wild and feral cat colonies BTW. I don't need a science book for this. I have befriended many a cat in my life and maybe you should try it as well sometine. One tip: let go of concepts such as "stronger", "group leader", "superior" etc. and you will have a much easier time.

You have to win the friendship of a cat, which is different from winning obedience in a dog (since friendship between humans and dogs always starts out with "showing them who's the boss" first, right?). Cats won't be forever devoted to you, once you sufficiently demonstrate your power over them. Instead, they will hate you forever for it. Dunno, to my little non-scientist brain, this seems the more evolved way to live and to perceive others around me. At least *I* and people close to me, certainly operate this way.

If this is not scientific enough for you, oh well. I'm not a psychologist, I'm just someone who tries to keep an open mind. Your original post claimed that cats are not aware of their surroundings and that the only thing they can do is to hunt and groom themselves; these are obviously false statements. Peace.

Re:True Story:

[lawpoop]

OK fine, I'll take your word for it. I'm not interested in befriending them. I just don't want those damn animals shitting and pissing in my room, like they did everyone elses. I hiss at them and stare them right out of my room at the doorway, and so far my room is clean. At least dogs know to go outside.

Re:True Story:

[Anonymous Coward]

What a state of bliss that must be for cats.

Re:True Story:

[Anonymous Coward]

You just made my point. With a cat, you are either parent or not.

a) Stop thinking of intelligence as it relates to yourself, and b) read the first paragraph of the parent.

Re:True Story:

[ross.w]

Of course not. You'd burn yourself. Wait until it cools down, silly!

Re:True Story:

[Hognoxious]

"Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals."

(Winston Churchill)

Re:True Story:

[Anonymous Coward]

Broken link...

Any chance of putting it back up?

Re:True Story:

[lawpoop]

So cats can't join cross-species societies. Dogs and people are capable of an intellectual feat that cats aren't.

Re:True Story:

[w3rzr0b0t5]

PMF, you have a junk account where I can email you?

Re:True Story:

[Profane MuthaFucka]

Only if you're going to send me your bukkake collection.

Re:True Story:

[homerito]

Great!

Get yourself a wolf and let your kids play with it!

ps: Actually, dogs do come from wolfs, they just have mutated into tamer creatures. Secondary effects of the mutation have been flappy ears, smaller teeth and... smaller brains (they dont neet all that procesing power if they dont hunt anymore).

Re:True Story:

[bogado]

My cat was a little one, very little in comparisson to other cats.

But I guess it is harder to tell when they are smart or not, since they are more individualists in general. They are simply not trying to impress you.

What I don't like, is that many people that show how much "inteligent" their dog is by making it repeat movements that were imprinted in the poor dog's brain. Sit, and it sits down with the fear of being punished again. This is not inteligence (please, I am not stating that dogs are not inteligent).

Re:True Story:

[SeanDuggan]

Nice. How can we get back to that kind of farming? That's a question I've had for a long time.
Be willing to pay higher prices. The reason factory farms are so successful is that they lower costs. Most people aren't willing to pay a little extra for ideological reasons, so the "old-style" farms are driven out of business.

My uncle's cattle have it even better -- he raises them only as prized studs, not food. What a great job (being the stud)! :)
Um, what do you think they do with bulls too old to put out to stud? Same as with milk cows too old to provide milk... it's not the tenderest meat, but it's meat.

Re:True Story:

[drinkypoo]

It's not intelligence, it's discipline. Some dogs are naturally (as in, bred to be) better at that than others. Intelligence is problem solving, we're talking about (for example) dogs that get out of their enclosures even though you consistently figure out how they are doing it and block that particular egress, not dogs that learn to shut the fuck up, although that's obviously a lot more useful. I agree that an organism doing what it's told is no mark of intelligence. Even parrots using words they've learned at appropriate times might not be a mark of intelligence, because apparently there is some genetic feature that controls which birds may learn new songs. (The surest sign of parrot intelligence, in my opinion, is their sense of humor...)

Re:True Story:

[PatientZero]

Um, what do you think they do with bulls too old to put out to stud?

True, I posted that too quickly. My point was that they're a hell of a lot happier living on a large ranch out in the open than penned up in a box so they stay tender. As well, they're not "sent to slaughter" in a cramped box car nor slaughtered en masse.

Re:True Story:

[Marxist Hacker 42]

Why are you worried about how other people live and shop and eat? You go buy local beef, and leave the rest of us out of your predilections.

Which I do- but I alone cannot "bring back this type of farming"- I don't have the kind of money that the people who can, but won't, do.

I like to buy meat from reputable local butchers. I used to work for one, and I got spoiled.

Yes- but the grand majority of Americans can't- they don't have a local butcher within 200 miles. They do however have a Wal*Mart, which supports the big agribusinesses instead, and in so doing, put the little butcher out of business. That's why it matters how other people live and shop and eat- by going with the profit motive every time (like we've been taught to do since teacher in first grade taught us about points and grading) we are slowly killing off that small, reputable local butcher, as well as the family farmer who sends meat to him. And replacing the whole chain with the factory farm which raises the beef far away from the pasture in a veal fattening pen, zaps it with electricity to kill it, hoists it by crane onto the line where it's cut up by some illegal immigrant making less than minimum wage in the most unsanitary conditions possible under the lax USDA inspectors who are paid by the same company, to be sent to the local grocer prepackaged complete with ecoli and mad cow neurons.

In short- thank you for supporting your reputable local butchers- as nobody else will.

Re:True Story:

[Marxist Hacker 42]

I don't think you'd have to be a libertarian extremist for this to drive you nuts- the more than a million Rhode Islanders, for instance, who live in a state with only 8,000 head of cattle, might also have some complaints.

Sounds like they need to tear down a few buildings for pastureland.

'm not sure that making beef a luxury item for the eastern seaboard while simultaneously destroying the economy of Wyoming has much appeal for anyone except Marxist daydreamers like yourself.

OTOH, another possible outcome is actually providing jobs and more farms in RI- and more cities in Wyoming as people move there for the beef eating lifestyle thus giving the economy an extra boost.

And that's not even considering the black market you'd create in smuggled beef - unless you want checkpoints and searches at all state border crossings. (Which, incidentally, is one of the problems with creating the kind of control economy you apparently envision - though an article on octopi and robot design probably isn't the place for that discussion.)

Actually- we can bring it back on topic by pointing out that solving the way octopi move and mimicing that in a robot brings us one step closer to the impenatrable robot army border patrol- which ends the whole smuggled anything problem completely. Don't have your Interstate Commerce Commission RFID tag? Say goodbye to your truck as the flamethrower-armed octopi robots destroy it!

Re:True Story:

[RedWizzard]

I don't think bringing sanitary habits into the discussion is going to help your position at all. Dogs may go outside (if trained properly), but so will cats when properly trained. I've lived with probably a dozen different cats and very few of them ever went inside and I can only think of one who did it more than once. At least cats don't eat their own shit, and they know how to bury it.

As far as your claim that they are not socially aware, I don't agree. Cats are generally solo hunters (with the exception of lions), so they don't form packs like dogs do, but they are certain aware of groups and hierarchies. If you live with several cats you'll notice that usually only one of them defends the territory against outsiders. My wife and I currently own a cat who obviously recognises that me, my wife, and the cat form a group. She displays affection to both of us, but in very different ways, and she doesn't show affection to anyone else. My sister-in-law lived with us for a year, and yet our cat never formed a bond with her to anywhere near the extent she has with us. As far as cats go, I think our current one is pretty stupid. But she still displays intelligence.

Re:True Story:

[RedWizzard]

What I'm getting to is this is why I think cats are stupid. There are solitary animals that are smarter, such as organs and octopuses.

That doesn't make cats stupid. You're using faulty logic.

Both of those creatues have enough 1. social intelligence to recognize individual people, conceal evidence from them, hide escape attempts and cladestine feeding, and 2. object manipulation intelligence, for maze solving, lock picking, cage escaping, etc. Cats are good at neither of these.

You're simply wrong about both these points. You clearly haven't spent a lot of time around cats or you'd know that they do display the social intelligence your talking about in point 1, and while they don't have the manual dexterity of either octopi or orangutans, they do display as good object manipulation intelligence as say dogs. An example of the later is how quickly cats pick up the use of cat doors, and the different way different cats will use them - our cat will push at the flat with her forehead, yet a friend's cat uses a paw to test the door.

Re:True Story:

[w3rzr0b0t5]

I'm being serious.

Re:True Story:

[Profane MuthaFucka]

So am I! I loves bukkake. Send them to:

profanemuthafucka@jesusanswers.com

Real question

[savagedome]

Does the Octopus Hold the Key To Robot Design

Even deeper question is, in which arm?

I'm no ichthyologist

[Dancin_Santa]

But I'm more inclined to think that these guys probably have a lot more interesting robotics applications than octopusii do.

Unless they think that making robots taste delicious is the secret to robot movement. Mmm... octopod

Re:I'm no ichthyologist

[thenetbox]

Just a friendly note that the plural of octupus is 'octopuses' or 'octopodes'. Octopusii was a villain in a James Bond movie :)

Re:I'm no ichthyologist

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Get Octopus.

2. Get Robot.

3. Give Robot the Octopus-nature.

4. Japanese robot tentacle porn!

5. Profit?

suckers

[Doc Ruby]

I wonder how the octopus handles making typos.

Re:suckers

[PoopJuggler]

Better, more efficient Shakespeare. 1 million octopi typing on 1 million keyboards would produce the works of Shakespeare 4 times faster than those damn dirty monkeys.

Re:suckers

[Doc Ruby]

Is that why the infinity symbol is a "lazy 8"?

Of course, this is old news... to Spiderman 2 fans

[BenJeremy]

Doc Oc has known this for decades. ...in other news, Robotics Scientists often fall asleep during Spiderman movies and have epiphanies in the mornings following.

My prediction: Slashdot article in the near future about the possibility of armored soldiers riding anti-gravity sleds pumped up with performance-enhancing drugs.

And Now...

[Avyakata]

Perhaps they can figure out a way to replicate other octopus-like behavior, too. Like, say, squeezing into a bottle half it's size. I mean, that'd be great for all kinds of thing, consider what...

oh, wait...nevermind...

Next In the News

[ackthpt]

She had opened the top of her tank, navigated across the table to the goldfish tank, helped herself to every last goldfish in the goldfish tank and then crawled back home, closing the top of her tank! All I could do was stare in dumbfounded amazement.

Next in the news:

IT Jobs Outsourced to Octopii

She also exhibited curiosity with new objects placed into her tank, exploring them extensively,

Typical geek behaviour. Good thing I'm already used to eating seaweed...

So, make slimy and slippery robots. Got it.

[Speare]

The fact that an octopus doesn't get tangled up is probably related to the fact that the arms are (1) smooth, (2) pliable, (3) slippery, (4) oiled/lubricated, (5) immersed in a fluid. The way the arm tapers from large to small probably has some value here, too.

What do you think hair conditioner does? It mostly lubricates the hair strands so it won't get traction and kink up onto other strands.

Are we going to build tentacle robots that are oozing oil along their smooth plasticene actuators? I think I've seen a few Japanese cartoons along this motif...

Octopus? Are they serious?

[Xaroth]

The octopus as an optimal robot design? Did none of them see The Matrix?!

Somebody warn them before it's too late!

Has to be done...

[Anonymous Coward]

I for one welcome our robotic octopus overlords.

Re:So, make slimy and slippery robots. Got it.

[LiquidCoooled]

Yet another research field where Porn leads the way.

Each creature has several 'brains'

[gelfling]

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/09/09 07_octoarm.html

In that the octopus has a brain hierarchy. The central brain sends a 'go get that food' command to a sub brain in the tentacle which executes commands in the completion of that goal on its own. The main brain doesn't have to think about controlling the mechanics of each arm.

Re:Each creature has several 'brains'

[theguywhosaid]

clickey

Re:Each creature has several 'brains'

[mboverload]

Shit, I wish I could do that.

Fricken homework...

Re:Each creature has several 'brains'

[Anonymous Coward]

I think its safe to say most men have two brains which are constantly in disaggreement. Lower brain always raises issues at the wrong time.

Re:Each creature has several 'brains'

[gardyloo]

Yeah, but does ATI release linux drivers for those tentacles? Nooooooooo.

Re:Each creature has several 'brains'

[Zutfen]

Imagine a beowulf cluster of octopi/octopodes C.N.S.... okay screw it, but still, that's some amazing "circutry".

I didn't expect to learn about octopus nervous systems today, but that's just cool.

Re:Each creature has several 'brains'

[Storklerk]

The new Cell chip - first step towards octopus robots?

Octopus: central brain + 8 arm brains
Cell: central PowerPC chip + 8 SPU

Re:Each creature has several 'brains'

[Anonymous Coward]

In that the octopus has a brain hierarchy. The central brain sends a 'go get that food' command to a sub brain in the tentacle which executes commands in the completion of that goal on its own. The main brain doesn't have to think about controlling the mechanics of each arm.

Some human males experience a similiar type of brain hierarchy with other parts of their anatomy, but the hierarchy often becomes reversed.

Re:Each creature has several 'brains'

[lawpoop]

OR do you mean 'NoooOOOOoooo'?

Re:Each creature has several 'brains'

[gardyloo]

That was absolutely brilliant. It took me a while to get it (just about my operational definition for brilliance). Thanks!

the Matrix

[avandesande]

Maybe the Matrix wasn't so far off after all...

Urban myth amongst animal behavioural psychologist

[OriginalArlen]

I have no idea whether it's true or not but... WTF, it's Friday :)

A friend who is a throbbing-brained molecular biologist, with a PhD and everything :), told me this after too many pints of beer.

He was told by the guy from the next lab over, at lunch, who'd heard it from someone in another lab at a party,...

Some behavioural psychologists - I may have their precise taxonomic appellation incorrect - were planning an experiment with an octopus. They had a large maze, constructed of perspex. At one end was the octopus, at the other some food. The idea was just to time how long it took to navigate the maze and get to the food, which different routes it explored and so on. Well, they spent a long day setting everything up, getting the measuring fu in place and so forth. At the end of the day's work, the experiment was ready to run; they'd even connected the aquarium tank with a nice fresh octopus up to the maze equipment. The plan was to unlock the little hatch and give the octupus free access to the maze the following morning.

So they come in bright and early the next day to find the food gone, the octopus fed, and the little hatchway re-locked from the inside...

Octi Movement

[Red Weasel]

The coolest part about the Movement of Octopus is the fact that only the body desides where to go. It's up to the legs to figure out how they're going to get there.

If you ever get down the the Aquarium of the Americas you can get a pretty good display of this. Just make sure you make it for one of the feeding times 'cause the feeders do all the classic Octopus tricks(fish in a bottle, fish in a tank, fish with mirrors, mazes, etc).

Re:Octi Movement

[PingPongBoy]

How much intercommunications do the legs have? Considering locomotion, suppose one leg hits the gas pedal and causes an improvement in propulsion. Is this action learned then and there by the other legs?

So do the legs manifest logic or computation? Such as is there learning, experimentation, memory, etc.? Imagine: a semblance of AI via idealized octopus simulation.

Here's a thought...

[Reignking]

Are you telling me that an animal has to be very intelligent to not tangle its arms? Are you kidding me? It sounds like instinct or common sense, to me...

Re:Here's a thought...

[Anonymous Coward]

Um, no, that's not at all what they're telling you.

Are you telling me you'd have to be very intellegent to RTFA? Are you kidding me? It sounds like instinct or common sense, to me...

Re:Here's a thought...

[bigpat]

"Are you telling me that an animal has to be very intelligent to not tangle its arms? Are you kidding me? It sounds like instinct or common sense, to me.."

That is probably what the octopus was thinking.

Political Correctness gone too far

[michaelmalak]

From the linked article:

Indeed, with their bizarre (at least to humans) looks...

Re:Political Correctness gone too far

[BrettJB]

Well of course! They wouldn't want to offend their octopus readership now, would they?

I suspect there's also a rather large crossover population of squid and jellyfish reading TFA as well...

The dolphins, however, couldn't care less.

Re:Political Correctness gone too far

[Anonymous Coward]

Lol, you just made my day :p

Re:Political Correctness gone too far

[orkysoft]

On the planet Decapod X, they don't think octopusses look bizarre :-P

Re:Political Correctness gone too far

[orkysoft]

s/octopusses/octopuses/

"Wrong == wrong" as the Grammar Nazis say :-P

Re:Political Correctness gone too far

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm an octopus, you insensitive clod!!

Re:So, make slimy and slippery robots. Got it.

[Anonymous Coward]

What do you think hair conditioner does?

Yeah, good luck! Maybe if you'd asked what Slashbots think shampoo does...or soap...

Re: Does the Octopus Hold the Key To Robot Design?

[lightspawn]

It holds, like, 8 of them.

Re:So, make slimy and slippery robots. Got it.

[Red Weasel]

when an Octopus is in motion( not hunting or fighting) only the Body decides whereto go. All of the legs get there as THEY see fit without any effort from the octopus.

So basically the head says move and the legs figure out for themselves how to do it.

Octopus Holds the Key to Robot Design?

[spud603]

Great!
Now whack it over the head and take it from him. We've been looking for that.
Damn octopi...

Re:Octopus Holds the Key to Robot Design?

[c4miles]

Best laugh I've had all day. Thanks.

I really should get out more, though.

Slashdotted

[MLopat]

Has the site been /.'ed already? Anybody have a cache link?

All I can say is...

[worst_name_ever]

Does the octopus hold the key to robot design? I think the more important question is: Does the octopus hold the key to totally awesome robot design?

Re:All I can say is...

[Anonymous Coward]

Or totally awesome soup . . .
http://soup.allrecipes.com/az/ShrimpndctpsSpCld dCm rnyPlp.asp

Re:All I can say is...

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you'll find that ninjas hold the key to totally awesome robot design.

Re:All I can say is...

[Anonymous Coward]

eight legged ninja?

Mod Parent Down!

[Tibor the Hun]

I saw the same documentary, but, I believe that the animals in question are squids, and not octopuses.

That kind of inaccuracy should be unacceptable in these scientific circles.

Overlooking the Obvious?

[ackthpt]

The fact that an octopus doesn't get tangled up is probably related to the fact that the arms are (1) smooth, (2) pliable, (3) slippery, (4) oiled/lubricated, (5) immersed in a fluid. The way the arm tapers from large to small probably has some value here, too.

How about this, in a Darwinian frame of reference:

Those octopi whose arms did tangle were eventually removed from the gene pool.

this comment may not be deemed appropriate for some schools, where the octopus is viewed as a diety

Re:Overlooking the Obvious?

[Changa_MC]

Those octopi whose arms did tangle were eventually removed from the gene pool.

Let me analogize this conversation momentarily.

"How do jetplanes fly?"
"Oh, well, people built thousands of devices, attempting to make them fly, and eventually discovered that that design worked best."

Your answer is true, but completely irrelevant to the question asked. We know where the octopus came from. We want to know where it is.

Personally, I think....

[Joshua53077]

...that understanding the robot holds the key to robot design.

I could be wrong...

[SamSim]

...but last time I checked, the plural of "octopus" was "octopi", right?

Re:I could be wrong...

[Anonymous Coward]

Heh everyone always says virii instead of viruses, and now octopuses instead of octopi.. Will nerds ever learn?

Re:I could be wrong...

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong. -pus is Greek, and the Greek plural is -pod. But Octopod refers to the entire order, so the only acceptably plural is octopuses.

Re:I could be wrong...

[Tringard]

last time I checked, the plural of "octopus" was "octopi", right?

That's the first thing I thought when I saw that. Surprised to see it in a National Geographic article too. So I checked and it turns out both work....

Re:I could be wrong...

[ryants]

Correction: the Greek plural is -podes. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=octopus

Re:I could be wrong...

[ryants]

Octopi (sic) is definitely wrong. -pus is Greek, and the proper plural is -podes, but that's awkward in English.

The only acceptable plural of octopus is therefore octouses.

Linky

Re:I could be wrong...

[Anonymous Coward]

I referred to my Homer Simpson Dictionary of the English Language [4th ed.]- the correct plural of "octopus" is "octopusimuses".

Re:I could be wrong...

[SickFreak]

Maybe it works like the word fish. The plural of a single particular species of fish is the word fish as in one fish, two fish. The plural of fish when speaking about multiple species is fishes, as in all the fishes of the sea. I also checked www.m-w.com and octopuses is correct.

Re:I could be wrong...

[ballpoint]

So you are saying geeks should use "octopii", no ?

Maybe "octopxvi" would be better - to emphasize that a plurarility of said animals (*) have at least 16 arms, unless some have been bitten off - but that's hardish to pronounce.

(*) I wrote^H^H^H^H^Hread too many software patent applications recently, and it shows up in my posting; really sorry 'bout that.

Re:I could be wrong...

[geoffspear]

No, it's not definitely wrong. Octopus is an English word, and English-speaking people (and, more importantly, professional lexicographers) have no problem with "octopi".

Next you're going to tell me that anyone who uses the word "automobile" is wrong, because that word cannot possibly exist. Or that if I write about Plato instead of Platon, I'm no longer talking about a Greek philosopher. Sorry, but your pedantic obsession with etymology has no bearing on correct English usage.

Re:I could be wrong...

[syrinx]

Octopi (sic) is definitely wrong.

You're talking to a forum where people regularly use "virii". (Also "boxen", but at least that's a joke and people don't *really* think it's correct.) I think it's a lost cause.

Re:I could be wrong...

[ari_j]

I hate to break it to you, but "boxen" is not understood to be a joke by the majority of people who use it.

Re:I could be wrong...

[zarathustra_slayer]

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=octopus
American Heritage Dictionary at the top of the page claims it comes more immediately from New Latin. Merriam-Webster concurs. You can step back further to Greek or Indo-European mother tongue for the etymology, but the pluralization ought to be based on the most immediate source, or on standard English pluralization.

Re:I could be wrong...

[syrinx]

This is the same English language where we pluralize words that already end in "s" by added "es" to the end?

If "octopus" is an English word, as you say, then the plural is "octopuses". I don't know where you're coming up with this "-i" plural, because that's definitely not English.

Re:I could be wrong...

[Anonymous Coward]

...but last time I checked, the plural of "octopus" was "octopi", right?

Wrong. It's octopussies.

Re:I could be wrong...

[lawpoop]

Nope. The plural of pus is pedae, so if you want to be a pompous dick, you would say "octopedae" --

But, since octopus is actually an English word (regardless of where we got it from -- we borrow words, not grammar structures), it takes the regular plural of all English words that end in an -s, -es.

C'mon. Is the plural of sauna saunaa or saunat? A lot of our words come from other languages. If we have to adopt their pluarlization rules, that would be a nightmare laundry list of irregular plurals.

Re:I could be wrong...

[lawpoop]

Hm, I stand corrected! It's not pedae, it's podes. I'll be darned. That's why I stick with good old -es.

Re:I could be wrong...

[geoffspear]

Merriam Webster and American Heritage both disagree with you.

Unless you're going to start writing everything in Old English, I'm going to have to assume that you're not contending that the English language can't evolve.

Re:I could be wrong...

[nicomachus]

You can actually have some fun with deciding the plural of `octopus' (for the record, I say `octopuses'). It's true that the Greek plural of `oktwpous' (w for omega) is `oktwpodes'), but there's two ways to say `octopus' in ancient Greek: `oktwpous' and `oktapous'. Both words are used to mean both `octopus' and `eight feet in size' (e.g. an area of eight square feet'); as I recall, `oktapous' is actually the more common word for the animal (in modern Greek, it's `ktapodi', descended from this). `octopi' is formed by treating `octopus' as if it were a Latin second-declension noun, which it isn't. I actually don't know the classical Latin word for octopus: there is such a word as `octipes' (plural `octipedes'), but according to the new Oxford Latin it occurs only in the adjectival sense `having eight feet'.

And that's why I say `octopuses', and why I'm not bothered at all if you want to say `octopi' (or even `octopodes').

Obligatory "Mystery Men" Quote

[Anonymous Coward]

Sphinx : "You must lash out with every limb, like the octopus who plays the drums."

Mystery Men

Re:Obligatory "Mystery Men" Quote

[Anonymous Coward]

Not every fucking quote is obligatory.

Nature==Free Engineering Lessons

[Badgerman]

I'm glad to see this. Going into computing from a psycology/neuroscience background, I always found biology to be an excellent source of ideas (or if nothing else, metaphors), for my work.

Nature has already solved many a problem (with some flaws like any solution). It's bad enough to reinvent the wheel. It's worse to reinvent something even more complex.

The sad part is wondering what else is out there that isn't being studied because we didn't think of it yet.

Re:Nature==Free Engineering Lessons

[mboverload]

The only thing that sucks is that biology is more effcient than many "artificial" solutions derived from it.

So they have multiple cerebellums?

[10000000000000000000]

to keep the arms from constantly tangling themselves up, each arm has an independent peripheral nervous system and neural circuitry

Interesting. This seems somewhat like the honda robot Asimo, in that Asimo also doesn't have just a single "brain" but rather a single primary processing unit and smaller controller units for each of his joints.

Duh!

[Hard_Code]

http://images.google.com/images?q=dr%20octopus

plurality

[Anonymous Coward]

octopi, dude. seriously.

need I say it?

[jbridge21]

CTHULHU WILL EAT YOUR SOUL

Re:need I say it?

[k96822]

Or save it and redeem it for valuable coupons later.

Sounds like good management or OO encapsulation

[BrettJB]

From the article:

Earlier research funded by the U.S. Navy's Office of Naval Research (ONR) suggests that, to keep the arms from constantly tangling themselves up, each arm has an independent peripheral nervous system and neural circuitry (see related-story link below). This allows the brain to essentially give a command--"Arm Four, fetch that tasty crab crawling by"--and have the arm carry out the order without the brain thinking about it again.

Sounds like good management to me. Management (the octopus) assigns a task to one of their reports (arms). Tell them what to do, but don't micromanage the task.

Or, it sounds like encapsulation. Pass just enough information to the Arm object to communicate the task, and allow Arm's private methods handle the detals of how that task is accomplished.

Re:Sounds like good management or OO encapsulation

[Anonymous Coward]

I know that in the grand scheme of things your post is just another well-moderated post on slashdot, of which dozens are created every day.

But this one made my day. Thank you. The idea of an octopus' arms having private methods will make me laugh for years.

Re:Sounds like good management or OO encapsulation

[BrettJB]

Doesn't everyone's appendages have private methods? Mine are forever getting me into trouble... ;)

Seriously, I was trying to see the applications of this study to robot design. Being a coder, I immediately jumped to the control logic, and was just struck by the similarities to OOAD concepts.

Wasn't trying to be funny... However, if I've all I accomplish today is providing comic relief, then it's been a good day!

BTW, I though the "good management" analogy was funnier. Sort of an oxymoron along the same lines as "deliberate mistake", "fuzzy logic", or "government organization".

Re:Sounds like good management or OO encapsulation

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like good management to me. Management (the octopus) assigns a task to one of their reports (arms). Tell them what to do, but don't micromanage the task.

This sounds like a potential money-making scheme. We fill a tank with octopii; hang a sign above the door labelled "Strategic Management"; and charge $1000 to allow middle management to sit around and watch octopii swim around for a day.

And to increase profit, we sell them some pot and a bag of Doritos for another $1000.

DOC OC!

[EvilAlien]

The fools!

If they go down this path, it is obvious that Marvel Comics' world domination plans will be complete! They will simply use intellectual property lawsuits based on the Doctor Octopus character... oh Stan Lee, what evil hast thou wrought?

Re:So, make slimy and slippery robots. Got it.

[SLot]

(1) smooth, (2) pliable, (3) slippery, (4) oiled/lubricated, (5) immersed in a fluid.

That sounds a lot like the perfect date.

Mod parent up. No. Really.

[Anonymous Coward]

Heh

I spat coke all over my keyboard!

It had nothing to do with your half-assed excuse of "humour", I'm just very clumsy.

Just ask the "Doctor"

[Gudlyf]

Doctor Otto Octavius would concur.

Fools!

[Tibor the Hun]

How did the octopus get a hold of the key?

They have eight tentacles and a razor sharp beak!

I suggest they get one of the interns to try to get the key back from the Octopus!

Re:So, make slimy and slippery robots. Got it.

[mboverload]

Yes, but the legs never even get close to tangling themselves, even if they were not lubricated. They are pretty good at manuvering.

The Tentacle

[skeptictank]

"If you had something--a person, say--floating in a water column or in space, a straight mechanical arm is likely to push it away," said Thomas McKenna, a project officer at the ONR. "But an arm you could use to gently wrap around an object and retrieve it, that would be useful." Also, they are real popular with doe-eyed, psuedo-asian, female superheros.

Plural forms?

[NEOtaku17]

Lesson on the correct plural version of Octopus. Very interesting read.

Re:Plural forms?

[Kashif Shaikh]

Plural form: Octopussies. :)

Re:Octopus? Are they serious?

[mboverload]

Yeah, because we all know flying robotic octopuses with fricken laser beams are so close.

Octopus Robot Arms

[mshiltonj]

Already done. It didn't work out well.

See for yourself

Key to robot design: has to be alive.

[192939495969798999]

Octopi have one major advantage over 8-armed robots: they are alive, and have brains, something like muscles and neurons to go between. If we could make a robot that had a brain, muscles and neurons, I doubt we would care much about giving it 8 arms and watching it move them around without tying them in a knot. The octopus just has to think to itself, "don't tie my arms in a knot", like each of us does every day, and voila, no arm knots.

Re:Key to robot design: has to be alive.

[dpierkowski]

The octopus just has to think to itself, "don't tie my arms in a knot", like each of us does every day, and voila, no arm knots.

I forgot to think that one day. Worst day I've ever had.

Re:Key to robot design: has to be alive.

[m50d]

There are several problems with those things though. For a start, they're pretty useless in space. We have replacements for most of them - motors, wires, and ICs. The Octopus' main advantage is whatever its equivalent is for our hindbrain - the hardwired bit that has had millions of years of evolution to optimise it. In a way it's the OS, with the higher brain being the application. What we need is to write one.

Re:Key to robot design: has to be alive.

[Anonymous Coward]

The octopus just has to think to itself, "don't tie my arms in a knot", like each of us does every day

Oh yeah. Every morning I get up and think "Must remember not to tie my arms in a knot."

Squiddies!

[JessLeah]

Oh, shit. So robots are gonna look like Sentinels?

Whoa.

The Octopus the Key To Robot Design?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like a suckers bet to me.

I'm no etymologist

[david duncan scott]

but isn't it "octopuses" or "octopi"? "Octopodes" is new to me, at any rate.

Good ol' dictionary.com does list "octopods", but that seems like a generic term for any eight-legged creature, not incorrect for an octopus but not specific either.

(Mostly OT anecdote: When my older sister first called to announce her engagement to a quadriplegic, my mother, startled, turned to the rest of us and announced, "Nancy's going to marry a quadraped!"

(We speculated furiously until she hung up and explained-- a dog, perhaps? Horse? Wombat?)

Re:I'm no etymologist

[nsayer]

"Nancy's going to marry a quadraped!"

I was about to suggest that everyone who marries a human marries a quadraped, but then I realized that the word I was thinking of was tetrapod.

And thus, this entire comment is pointless. Happy Friday!

Re:I'm no etymologist

[milkman_matt]

but isn't it "octopuses" or "octopi"? "Octopodes" is new to me, at any rate.

It's Octopusen!!! ...sorry, couldn't resist.

Octopus

[sameerdesai]

I don't want a Robot spraying me with Ink!!! Or Did I miss the point of the story ;-)

Re:Octopus

[El Gordo Motoneta]

Besides, did you see the price tag on the 50ml "octopus robot" ink cartridge from HP? Better stick with a laser octoups.

Re:Octopus

[Anonymous Coward]

"I don't want a Robot spraying me with Ink!!!"

Don't buy a Lexmark, then...

James Bond could have told you that.

[agent]

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086034/

Re:So, make slimy and slippery robots. Got it.

[mr.newt]

The first time hair conditioner causes my hair to reach out, clasp some food, and bring it back to my mouth for me to eat, I'll see your point.

Technological limitations?

[HardsetHead]

I noticed in the article that they mentioned that studying the way octopi move their arms would be the key to building a flexible-armed robot.

This seems to beg the question of whether they have the technology required to create a mechanical construct that has the flexibility and range of motion of an octopus tentacle.

I personally don't know whether this technology exists or how it would be implemented, but if it does, please enlighten this poor, ignorant soul.

Mixed messages

[saddino]

After reading this startling bit from the article:

Octopuses have intrigued scientists for years, because they have both long- and short-term memory, they remember solutions to problems, and they can go on to solve the same or similar problems. They have been known to climb aboard fishing boats and open holds in search of crabs. They can figure out mazes, open jars, and break out of their aquariums in search of food.

It was a bit disheartening to see this "sponsored link" at the bottom of the article:

A Seafood Delicacy: Order Octopus
Gorton's Fresh Seafood delivers octopus - fully cleaned and freshly prepared. Delicious and mild in flavor - great boiled, stewed or grilled. Special packaging ensures freshness.

Ah, the potential irony of keyword triggered ads!

Re:So, make slimy and slippery robots. Got it.

[blindbat]

Better keep your octopi locked up or this guy will get them!

Mmmm... Octopus Brains

[Anonymous Coward]

Well if a rat brain can fly a plane, why can't an octupus brain be put inside a robot?

Re:Mmmm... Octopus Brains

[Nspace13]

will my robot body have hair?

A Barbeau-bot would weld that leak with her laser beam eyes.

Nails are like candy to robots! And we'll eat tires instead of licorice.

forget an octopus

[sakura the mc]

they should study centipedes, better yet, millipedes

According to the article...

[Anonymous Coward]

Octopi have been known to climb aboard ships and open doors in search of crabs.

Anyone know where to find a photo of this?

I'm having a hard time picturing it...

Re:According to the article...

[catdevnull]

I remember this story from one of the major aquaria. Fish were disappearing from display tanks. They couldn't figure it out. One keeper noticed a slime trail from the octopus's tank. It seems that at night, the little bugger was sneaking from tank to tank eating the display critters. As an aquarium keeper, I can attest to finding unexpected ingenuity in our aquatic little friends. Fascintating to watch them.

I, for one, welcome our 8-armed robot overlords!

[Cr0w T. Trollbot]

Sorry, had to be said. ;-p

- Crow T. Trollbot

forming three segments?

[rj4x]

The FA states:

Just as a human arm has joints at the shoulder, elbow, and wrist that allow our arms to bend and rotate, the octopus bends its arm to forming three segments of roughly equal length.

i wonder how roughly equal the segments were. it would be interesting to know if the difference in lengths correspond to the golden mean, ie coreespond to how our limbs are organized.

(from google) the golden ratio = 1.61803399

Octopuses???? Or Octopi ?

[popo]

When did the plural of 'octopus' stop being
'octopi'?

Or did my skool learn me wrong?

Masamune Shirow unavailable for comment

[bXTr]

Oops, wrong website.

Pat on the back

[sweatyboatman]

very nice. i haven't laughed at a slashdot comment in months. but maybe it's just 'cause it's friday and I'm tired.

Anyong

[glrotate]

Hermano

Don'[t be ridiculous

[Chairboy]

Obviously, the plural of octopus is octopussy.

DUH.

Re:So, make slimy and slippery robots. Got it.

[Nasarius]

Dr. Zoidberg, is that you?

yea and we will end up with sentinels

[doyoudig]

http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com/rl_cmp/matri x_creatures_04.html

Re:Octopus? Are they serious?

[sponga]

Just don't let them get a hold of "The Freakin Lasers!!"

Re:So, make slimy and slippery robots. Got it.

[lsmeg]

Are we going to build tentacle robots that are oozing oil along their smooth plasticene actuators? I think I've seen a few Japanese cartoons along this motif...

Hmm... I don't know that I'd call those cartoons, per se...

Science Meets Science Fiction!

[catdevnull]

...or Science Friction as it were...

The two immediate pictures that come to mind are Doc Ock from Spiderman II and those crazy Sentinels in the Matrix trilogy. I'm not sure if this is the "Jules Verne/Arthur C. Clark" Effect but maybe there's a pattern here...
Nature's wonders observed and mimicked in fantasy and then made reality in technology. Hmmm.

Re:Octopuses???? Or Octopi ?

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no generally-agreed plural. Strictly speaking, since it's a Greek word ("Okto", eight, plus "pus", foot) the "correct" plural would be "octopodes". Nobody really likes that, though, and most dictionaries suggest the English neologisms "octopi" or "octopuses". Either is good English usage. (Definitely not "octopii", however, as that would be the plural of "octopius".)

Re:Octopuses???? Or Octopi ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Octopussies!

octopus intelligence overrated

[Surt]

Have these people spent any time actually watching an octopus? They are constantly getting their tentacles tangled. Octopi frequently get their limbs tangled in permanent knots, which is probably part of why they have extras (as backups to cover for the loss of functionality). I don't think these guys are who we want to model our robots after.

Real Reason for Excitement

[erik_flannestad]

Article states that there are other examples in the animal kingdom of "muscular hydrostat".

But, Joy!, Octopi aren't mammals so hardly anyone will mind if they are dissected.

Nevermind that they are among the most advanced sea creatures, who probably are closer related to us than most of the terrestrial mammals the PETA folks get so upset about.

[disgust]Scientists and their research hard ons![/disgust]

I think it's more like

[Anonymous Coward]

The fictional T1000, the nerves are distributed throughout the structure... though i could be sleeping too much during the nature doc's

Someone got out of hand

[sageo]

Who gave the friggin Octopus the key to robotic designs again, damnit! And people say the mid eval ages set us back 100s of years, why back in my days we at least trained monkeys to hold OUR robotics design keys, Yesh...

Re:Of course, this is old news... to Spiderman 2 f

[Anonymous Coward]

Earth People, New York and California
Earth People, I was born on Jupiter

Oh wait, wrong Doc Octo...

OTS summary of the article

[TuringTest]

Octopuses, those boneless, brainy, denizens of the deep, use their arms for some tasks in much the same way humans do, according to a new study. But to bring captured prey to its mouth, the octopus turns the arm into a semi-rigid structure that bends to form quasi joints. Just as a human arm has joints at the shoulder, elbow, and wrist that allow our arms to bend and rotate, the octopus bends its arm to forming three segments of roughly equal length. "And indeed our studies show how the octopus simplifies the complex problems associated with controlling flexible arms that have an infinitely large number of degrees of freedom. This in turn inspires the development of new strategies for the control of flexible robotic arms."

Earlier research funded by the U.S. Navy's Office of Naval Research (ONR) suggests that, to keep the arms from constantly tangling themselves up, each arm has an independent peripheral nervous system and neural circuitry (see related-story link below). Once an octopus spots its prey, it has a remarkable ability to reach out with one of its arms and grab it with one of the suckers that form a double line up each of the octopus's arms.

Some scientists studying octopus arms conclude that they may represent the optimal design for robotic arms

Re:Octopus? Are they serious?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm more worried about MechaCthulu. I mean, if the stars are ever right...

It's octopi

[blake3737]

I always thought it was "Octopi" as the plural?? then again I could be waaaaay wrong!

no difference?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm. I'm not sure there's a difference, either way. I mean, what's so special about octopi anyway? Haven't they just learned to connect neurons to the limbs they were born with, like we all do?

Personally, I prefer generic solutions when possible.

So they have multiple cerebellums?-Secondary.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Interesting. This seems somewhat like the honda robot Asimo, in that Asimo also doesn't have just a single "brain" but rather a single primary processing unit and smaller controller units for each of his joints."

So were are our "smaller controller" units?

Re:So they have multiple cerebellums?-Secondary.

[10000000000000000000]

In latin cerebellum means "Small Brain" or "little brain".

Re:So, make slimy and slippery robots. Got it.

[Anonymous Coward]

It would be, but the deal-breaker is:

(6) 60 degrees Fahrenheit

Obligatory

[the_mushroom_king]

I, for one, welcome our new robotic octipus overlords.

Everyone thought The Martrix was just a silly sci-fi movie. Fools, its actually a documentary from the future! -- TMK

When they die, throw them in a frypan w 1tsp butr.

[Anonymous Coward]

Honest to God, they are healthy to eat. I live average about 7 miles from the southern California side of the Pacific Ocean, and recently the giant squid have been running through. I don't fish anymore, realy. When the giant squid run through the San Diego offshore area, they always decide to beach themselves and die. Most people are too retarded to grab these 40 pound carcasses and deep freeze them in preparation for using as Grouper, Big Eye tuna, or Shark bait; or for eating after cooking. probably 10 tons of squid washed ashore at Newport Beach about October and November of our last year 2004. Just my advice... Just because it died in your aquarium doesn't mean its bad to eat, unless you were so sad that you let it set and fester thinking she'll come back. Face it, she's dead Jim. Throw her in the skillet. Maybe you'll have the privilege to do the same to your mother-in-law soon.

Pet an octopus

[null etc.]

What's it like holding hands with an octopus?

"It can be intimidating at first, because they wrap their arms pretty tight around you, and everything they latch onto is pretty much headed straight to their mouth"..."But once you get used to it, I can't describe it: They feel like wet velvet or wet silk."

Sounds pretty obscene without the first sentence, doesn't it?

Re: Pet an octopus

[Anonymous Coward]

"It can be intimidating at first, because they wrap their arms pretty tight around you, and everything they latch onto is pretty much headed straight to their mouth"

Time to dump my girlfriend.

"But once you get used to it, I can't describe it: They feel like wet velvet or wet silk."

Yum... Octopussy...

Re:Pet an octopus

[iggymanz]

once you realize an octopus has a beak, this seems like much less fun.....

Yes, Indeed.

[Spy der Mann]

When we realized that humans looked back whenever we looked at them, we realized that there IS intelligent life outside the sea. (Some) humans have earned my respect.

OH darn, I'm drying up. I better go back to my tank.

*plop*

An amazing example of Octopus Camoflauge...

[Anonymous Coward]

...can be seen here
http://www.cephbase.utmb.edu/viddb/vidsrch3. cfm?ID =132&CephID=495

Re:An amazing example of Octopus Camoflauge...

[Anonymous Coward]

Correct URL
http://www.cephbase.utmb.edu/viddb/vidsrch3.cfm?ID =132&CephID=495

ia ia! cthulu fhtagn!

[burnunit0]

Hail to our powerful new gods from beneath the sea!

Also, I seem to remember a Harlan Ellison story about the "last man on earth" and about a 9 million year reign of sentient octopuses long after humanity faded...

One millionth Doc Oc and Matrix Reference

[Anonymous Coward]

I know this genre of reply is full, but I have to add one more:

In related news, scientists now believe that if robots based on octopi ever get out of control and try to overthrow their masters, the solution may reside in a small radioactive spider.

On scientist however disagreed, "This is just another example of everyone refusing to believe that existence as we know it is simply the product of a hive machine intelligence and the giant octopus-based robots are already on the rampage."

I wish to be an octopus - obligatory joke

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's do the hands budget...

two for the keyboard
one for the mouse
one holding beer
one pr0n usage

Wow... three spare hands remaining... if I don't think about them they'll pull that plu...NO CARRIER

Re:Of course, this is old news... to Spiderman 2 f

[Anonymous Coward]

too bad I ran out of mod points (+1) :(

Don't forget learning.

[Anonymous Coward]

When an octopus is learning to use it's eight arms, the arms are very short (I believe - I haven't seen photo of a very young octopus lately). Thus by the time they could get tied up in knots, the octopus has learned to fully control them.

Re-Invent the Wheel?

[Hooptie]

Its funny you use that phrase, because I don't recall ever seeing any wheeled animals.

Hooptie

Re:Re-Invent the Wheel?

[955301]

The rollie pollie.
armadillo.

Both can roll up and away...

Octopi PHOTOS

[Anonymous Coward]

Here are some photos.

welcome

[Anonymous Coward]

I for one welcome our new Cephalopod overlords!

"wild cows" = Aurochs

[MenTaLguY]

Yep. See the Wikipedia article.

On cats and octopies :P

[PatientZero]

As I said, I understand your point about different areas of intelligence. But saying an octopus is as intelligent as a cat does get across the main point, I believe. While my cats weren't able to pick locks (perhaps because they lacked the tools like eight highly-flexible arms with suction devices or as you say, the desire to "perform"), they were able to get to the boxes of food stored up on a shelf, open them, and eat just enough to not starve when I ended up having a business trip extended and couldn't reach anyone to feed them.

In any case, the plural of the greek word octopus is octopodes

Yes, while I checked the dictionary and it made no reference to this (I only put it in there to be funny, and for that I think I did enough due diligence), I read a post further down that explained this as well. I still feel octopi sounds far cooler and will continue to work it into as many conversations as I can. Maybe I can change the common usage and take over the world!

This just confirms my suspicion that cats are holier-than-thou pompous jerkwads.

Having raised four cats, I must concede this point. :)

Damn you

[System.out.println()]

You owe me a new keyboard. :-P

Neural Memory

[dayeight]

I remember reading that octopi's brains are wired in such a way, that a sort of neural memory implant can be passed onto offspring, such as locations of food, etc. Has anyone heard anything about this or contrary to this?

Re:China and Octopus Robot Technology

[Anonymous Coward]

You're really scraping the barrel now, aren't you?

A tentacled robot....

[inteller]

....also makes for good japanese anime tentacle sex.

Doctor Octopus Holds the Key To Robot Design

[serjinn]

After (mis-)reading the title, I got pretty excited, but then was totally bummed when I read the article.

All these comments

[Anonymous Coward]

...and no mention of Mr. Handy from Fallout?

No It Didn't

[Anonymous Coward]

No it didn't. Asshole.

flexible arm robots?

[RoadWarriorX]

I hope my future flexible-arm robot does not look like this .

Or Carp

[Pfhor]

I remember reading a story about carp, and how there is no biological factor to them dieing. As in, they will live as long as their environment will support them. I think the same is true, or close to true, for turtles.

Octopus lifetimes

[billstewart]

The folks at the aquarium in San Francisco's Pier 39 said that octopuses usually live about 3-4 years, but that they're usually only big enough to catch after they're about 3 years old, so they don't last long once they get them. (They usually get theirs from local fishermen.) That aquarium is basically an underwater Habitrail for people to walk through, surrounded by water tanks, and when they did have an octopus a couple of years ago, it was pretty cool to watch.

Re:So, make slimy and slippery robots. Got it.

[Anonymous Coward]

Except, octopii don't have lips - they
have sharp beaks, so cool your jets!

On the Internet...

[Ikester8]

Nobody knows you're an octopus.

Re:On the Internet...

[RichardX]

Except it's a dead giveaway when you type at 5000 WPM on IRC

And in conclusion

[Butterwaffle Biff]

I welcome our new eight-armed overlords.

Try a corvid or a rat

[leonbrooks]

But probably not at the same time. Both of them can be quite bright and a lot of fun as pets, neither of them are a fraction as much trouble to keep as an occy.

Ah! So the OmniBot does live?

[leonbrooks]

trademarked product ObIncrediblesRef.

TONMO.com

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.tonmo.com/: The Octopus News Magazine Online

Now that's food for thought...

[Anonymous Coward]

Parent talks as if intelligence is a reason not to eat certain animals. But as I recall, pigs happen to be another of the most intelligent animals out there. Not too many people feel guilty about eating them.

Re:Now that's food for thought...

[RedWizzard]

That's because bacon tastes gooood. Pork chops taste gooood.

Pet jumping - the next Olympic sport. Maybe.

[SeanDuggan]

Same thing with your cat. It's not impressive that your cat can jump 10 times his height, because he weighs very little and his legs were made for jumping like that.
More impressive was a friend of mine who had a dauschand that seemed to think he was a cat, complete down to jumping 3 feet vertically to window sills. Here we have a foot-and-a-half weiner dog with legs barely enough to keep his belly off the floor... he'd look up at the sill, rear back a little, then leap up like an over-sized slinky.