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Windows XP Starter Edition off to Slow Start
An anonymous reader writes "Microsoft may have started shipping its cheaper version of Windows in Asia, but getting support for its low-cost computing vision is still very much a work in progress. It seems Starter Edition has not gained much interest from vendors, nor has it generated much interest from end users." I haven't seen any sort of consumer research, but I imagine people don't like to have their number of possible network connections restrained by the host operating system.
Maybe in the coming days of Longhorn, Microsoft should sell a standard Shorthorn version, with built-in limitation.
I believe normal users don't really know/care the differences, but if you tell them A is a standard version, it has xx features, they can also buy B with x features, people tend to choose former.
However, if you tell consumers A is a standard version with x features, they can also buy a premium version with xx features, people still tend to choose the former, but some of them will upgrade to the latter simply because it is better.
Oh by the way, naming it Shorthorn is just as bad as XP Starter, MS should have the standard Longhorn with fewer features, and come out market Longerhorn as the premium.
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
but people still want the big thing so they'll get for "free" the xp os and forget about this "parody".
Trolling using another account since 2005.
That any machine they buy probably has the pirated full version of Windows XP already installed, or it can be found on the street for 5 dollars...
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
In a One-Copy Country, the full version of Windows is free anyway. Why on earth would someone pay for a crippled version?
How many billions has win2000 made? surey they could just sell that for $5 as is on a cheap cd, no box.
:)
They could retro fit the XP theme into 2000 and call it XP-$5 edition
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
It all goes back to TCO... and unless you're Steve Ballmer (YEAAA GET UP!! I LOVE THIS COMPANYYYY YEAAA!!!) the TCO is definately less with Linux. And that is just the tip of the iceberg young grasshoppa.
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does that take into account the connections started by spambots?
vodka, straight up, thank you!
The "starter" software near enough fails to get started itself!
This just goes to show how threatened companies feel about alternatives (read: F/OSS). If you look about it from the global perspective, Microsoft's options caters for just about every audience: from poor to rich, honest and dishonest. Every one of those has a reason to use Windows -- generally it's "but everyone else uses it too!" It's a shame, really...
How surprised can anyone be if full version bootleg copies of XP are sold in the malls for $5 versus $32 for a legal, though crippled version.
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The restrictions in Starter Edition (low maximum resolution, limited number of applications that can be run at once) are completely arbitrary. Microsoft hasn't put these restrictions in place because it makes the software cheaper, it has put them in place because it wants to force a cheaper version to be less functional.
The problem is that, regardless of whether users would actually need the functionality that Starter Edition doesn't have, people won't like it. People are simply averse to buying products that have been deliberately crippled. It doesn't matter whether the restrictions affect them, they feel insulted by being offered something that has been willfully hobbled.
Jedidiah.
Craft Beer Programming T-shirts
Linux Starter Edition
Same price as full edition.
Same features as full edition.
Same amount of source as full edition.
134340: I am not a number. I am a free planet!
It's called Windows XP Asian Street Corner Edition. Available either free or next to nothing in most metropolitan street corners in Asia.
But when the desktop came up it said I couldn't run anymore programs besides gator, hot bar and virtual bouncer.
Sometimes my arms bend back.
I prefer to turn to linux for such a price`
The summary comment about users not wanting to have their OS limit network connections is a bit of a red herring... The average user doesn't really even know what a network connection IS, much less care about how many their OS allows. As long as it can browse and get e-mail (usually not even at the same time) they're happy with it. Starter Edition may be a silly idea, but at least be realistic about why it's silly.
I'm not surprised that XP SE is off to a slow start. I mean, which is cheaper: a legit version of XP SE ($32), or a pirated copy of XP Home/Pro (~$5)? Also, should people want to upgrade to a full featured version of XP, it's still going to cost them an arm and a leg, isn't it? As best as I can tell, this is just Microsoft's way of saying "They can afford Windows now and have a perfectly good reason not to pirate it."
Hope be with ye,
Cyan
Very few people are going to choose a 'cheap', but brain-damaged operating system, when they can get a more sophisticated one for free. They'll either (illegally) copy XP, or (legally) copy Linux.
Further, if Microsoft manages to talk OUR government into pressuring THEIR governments into cracking down more on piracy, this will probably increase sales for them a little bit. It will also increase Linux adoption a very great deal.
The dirty little secret that Microsoft has been hiding all these years is that piracy was GOOD for them in creating their monopoly. Now that they have a monopoly, however, they believe the illegal copying does them no good, so they are trying to stop it.
But in many of those foreign countries, they do not yet have a monopoly. And the concept of serving the customer has been absent from Microsoft for so long that they actually think people will buy this brain-dead crap. Instead of doing the RIGHT thing by the customer, which is dropping the price on the normal product to something the local economy can supporty, they're trying this racket to protect their home monopoly pricing.
Ultimately, it's just not going to work. They may eventually figure it out. I'm not convinced of this, however. They have been a monopoly for too long and fear losing that power more than they want to get into new markets.
"I haven't seen any sort of consumer research, but I imagine people don't like to have their number of possible network connections restrained by the host operating system."
:)
I disagree entirely. The lack of sales has to do with the market's prefrence of Window XP: Pirate Edition - aka XP ARRRRG. Can't beat the price in developing markets
Doesn't it limit the user to three simultaneous apps? Who the hell would buy that, when you know the free version (pirated, what they are trying to stop) has no limits at all?
I guess all you ever need up is a chat client, IE, and Outlook for the complete Microsoft experience.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The people who are really going to feel this are the people who actually buy the upgrades, who install the newer versions from CDs they've *bought*. In short, the people who buy Microsoft Products. They're going to buy the cheaper version and realise that they can't do everything they could with the new version that they could with the old one. So, they'll probably either switch back to the old, or see what the other options are.
Microsoft's new strategy to stop the spread of worms.
...people who buy a Windows *Starter Edition* are surely only interested in one thing: Whether or not their network connections will be restricted. :)
Microsoft tried to push the Starter Edition in Brazil, to replace Linux in a government-funded program to combat the digital divide.
Brazilian representatives refused the offer, because they didn't want poor people to have a second-class computer, as if they were second-class citizens.
With Linux, people have everything: the operating system, OpenOffice, Firefox, Gimp, programming languages and hundreds of useful software.
(BTW I think it's revolting that MS put money to create a "worsened" version of Windows, instead of improve the "real one".)
The only things not included in home are support for domains and one user level.
That's basically it.
I imagine people don't like to have their number of possible network connections restrained by the host operating system. Well people wouldn't get this OS if they want to start a server. Or download music. I assume they want to pretty much learn what a "pointer device" is.
1) Is the countries MS is seeking to market this product, illegitimate full copies are already sold at a cut rate 2) Since prosecution of the criminal copiers is nearly non-existant, why would a customer purchase a legal crippled version of the software vs, a fully-functional illegal version? On another note: This is a wonderful opportunity for Linux to make a good foothold.
They came for the Communists, and I didn't object - For I wasn't a Communist; They came for the Socialists, and I didn'
They should strip out the features people DON'T want, not the ones they do. Remove MSN messenger. Remove IE. Remove Windows media Player. Give me an Operating System, not a load of applications which are difficult if not impossible to remove when I realize they are there (and I never wanted them in the first place). Remove theme support, remove all the clunky "wizards" and other "features" that were supposed to make my life easier but instead frustrate the hell out of me.
Don't put an arbitrary limit on the number of programs that can be run at once. Get rid of the stuff I don't want to pay for to begin with. I never would have switched to Linux had I had access to a $50.00 version of Windows that didn't have all that crap built in.
XP added the rounded edges to the top of the windows to make it safe for three-year-olds. Now Starter Edition builds on this innovation by being large (impossible to swallow), soft (so no-one gets hurt when the machine is ejected from a 10th floor window), and non-threatening ("My First Li'l Computer"). The default font will be Comic Sans.
Starter Edition. What a patronising title.
Here's a friend's accounting of how organized piracy is in HK:
<genjzzz> there are several plazas in hk that sell only computer and video game stuff
<genjzzz> a lot of grey market stuff there
<genjzzz> and counterfeit stuff like ps accessories
<genjzzz> ps2 that is
<genjzzz> and oversea versions of consoles that have no reason to be in hk
<genjzzz> i bought my cdrs from an organized group of individuals
<genjzzz> maybe about 14 in all
<genjzzz> anyway, inside one of the plazas, they have a corner shop set up with only color photocopies of the software they have available
<genjzzz> about 300 or so
<genjzzz> they have look outs at every entrance
<genjzzz> so i walk in and find the software i want
<genjzzz> and someone take the order and give me a slip with the software's stock numbers on it
<genjzzz> then i walk to the other side of the plaza where there's a "cashier" standing around
<genjzzz> i give him the slip and the money, he tells me who to see about pick up
<genjzzz> usually a few stores away
<genjzzz> the cashier gives me a slip with a number on it, that's my receipt to get the items
<genjzzz> so the dude tells me where to pick up the software: down the street and up the stairs at some store
<genjzzz> in about 15 minutes
<genjzzz> so i wait and go up and see some guy with a bunch of cdrs in plastic bags with receipt numbers on them
<genjzzz> i give him my receipt and get my software ~
<genjzzz> so they have seperate places for choosing, paying, information, and pick up
<genjzzz> and the warehouse of the cdrs is never revealed
This isn't a case of a few guys selling cdrs to friends, it's a huge, well-established business.
It's the difference between a kid's bike and a kid's bike with training wheels....
Regardless of how a product is marketed, calling anything "starter" is essentially an intellectual snub. The manufacturer is saying to the consumer "you may not be smart enough to run the version that your neighbor is running, but here is a version just for you". Perhaps the logo on the box could be a pair of mittens and those rounded, rubberized safety scissors to really complete the insult.
Basically?
Remote Desktop too, I use that daily, to get into my home machine from work and on the road.
User security, File sharing and NTFS security is also missing or crippled.
I couldnt use XP Home, its missing too many features. Hell, I had get the crack for SP2 so I could run my P2P programs again!
Of course, you could get a mac and use OSX, its both simple for the average user and unix based for the power users. Having to run Cygwin on XP to get features that come standard on other systems, shows the legacy aspects of windows.
Because when you pay for the crippled version, it comes with world class Microsoft support! Yes, if you find any problems in your copy of Starter Edition, you can just call up Microsoft support and they will tell you "That will be fixed when you buy our next release!"
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
They should also use the "Pro" moniker on the low end (aka Home) edition and rename "Pro" to "Corporate Edition." There seem to be far too many people that feel that they need the "Pro" version of something, simply because it's better.
Back when I worked at CHIMPUSA in college, i met many people like that. They had NT back office because it was 'more powerful' than workstation. When I asked them why it was better, they just stared at me blankly.
MS has a HORRIBLE nameing convention. First off, they keep changing it. Jesus Bill, I'm using all my gray matter remembering syntax for all your differing programming languages, can we keep the naming convention on the OS consistant?
How about going back to the NT names? Workstation for workstations, server for servers, and TheJesusCristServer(tm) for enterprise servers. ('The JesusCristServer, it works miracles!')
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Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
Windows XP SP2 limits the number of possible TCP connection attempts per second to 10 from an unlimited number in SP1. This can affect performance on server and P2P programs that need to open many outbound connections at the same time.
Notes - With the new implementation, if a P2P or some other network program attempts to connect to 100 sites at once, it would only be able to connect to 10 per second, so it would take it 10 seconds to reach all 100. In addition, even though the setting was registry editable in SP1, it is now only possible to edit by changing it directly in the system file tcpip.sys. Keep in mind this is a cap only on incomplete outbound connect attempts per second, not total connections. Servers and P2P programs can definitely be affected by this new limitation. Use the fix as you see fit.
When you are using your Windows XP system as a File-server of a network of system, how many systems can connect (use a shared resource ) at the same time to a Windows XP-system ?
- Windows XP Professional : 10 simultaneous file-sharing connections ( same limitation as in Windows NT4 workstation and Windows 2000 Professional ) - Windows XP Home Edition : 5 simultaneous file-sharing connections ( Windows 95,98, ME do not have a known limit of simultaneous file-sharing connections )
Source of this information : Microsoft Windows XP Professional Resource Kit Documentation Appendix G: Differences between Windows XP Home Edition, page 1539
Not to give Ballmer any undeserved credit, but Microsoft is in a different phase of corporate life now than in the Bill Gates era. As a business grows in terms of customers, products or employees, change becomes increasingly difficult and inefficient.
Stock analysts have compared MS to a guy in his 40s going through mid-life crisis, wanting to act young but not having the body or mental outlook for it. I read a good article on Motley Fool a couple years ago that said MS is in stage 3 of the corporate life cycle.
Stage 1 is the Startup stage, where obviously you take a lot of risks and do a lot of innovation.
Stage 2 is the Growth stage, where you focus on expanding market share by learning how to replicate your success as cheaply and efficiently as possible, which usually means developing a culture of standardization and uniformity.
I forget the name of Stage 3, but it's where the company can't make changes fast enough to compete in the real world. At this stage it should be reinvesting its money in younger companies and branding their innovations.
Employees who produce the most new ideas -- the young, creative people with the least structured minds and the greatest ability to go without sleep -- are the ones most alienated by Stage 3 corporate culture. Microsoft's problem, according to the Motley Fool article, is that it's a Stage 3 company trying to perform like a Startup. If Ballmer's to blame for anything, it's his failure to accept that fact.
To counter the effects of the slow start, Microsoft engineers are developing a slow shutdown feature.
Microsoft lost, according to them, over 10 BILLION dollars in revenue due to piracy last year alone. They would be a full 30% bigger if they could somehow eliminate piracy. They have huge charts on the walls inside some of the buildings showing exactly where the piracy is taking place, and the the loss to Microsoft because of it. They track it that well. They have somewhere upwards of 200 people dedicated to thinking about piracy and ways to solve it. You can expect more trial-and-error attempts like XP: Starter Edition because the incentive to fixing the problem is huge. They fully expect to solve it, as with all else they attempt. It is just a matter of time. I am not sure I agree on this one, the forces they are fighting against are also well motivated and extremely hard to track. The only difference between these people (the pirates, not Microsoft, although the point could be argued) and the terrorist organizations is that they don't tend to explode in crowded places. I would think that if Microsoft pushes to hard on this one, it could become violent, given the dollars at stake to both parties.
A most overlooked advantage to owning a computer is if they foul up there's no law against wacking them around a bit.
or cockroach, dung beetle, maggot, etc
The only way to tell the difference between a hamster and a gerbil is that the hamster has more white meat.
I went to Pantip plaza to buy a legit copy of XP for my wifes family, they are using winme. I remember reading somewhere the price would be about $30 which is nothing for an American, dinner for four is more expensive. The lowest price I was quoted was $68. The end of the story is it is far to costly for Thai's, when my wifes siblings make from $200-400 a month at the factory or building construction. I just installed BitDefender and unplugged the computer from the phone.
I now just take parts over and build machines for famly and friends. I leave the drivers for windows and tell them install the OS yourself.
Now if I could keep the bugs and lizards out of the powersupplies.
I really loved the 95 Plus pack concept. Why can't all the bloat be moved to a Plus pack?
My understanding of the Thai market is that most computers come with Windows Me, because it is cheap. Very few people actually use Me. Instead they wipe the drive and install a pirated version of XP.
So Microsoft just went to all this trouble to develop a whole new OS version that people are just going to wipe and replace with pirated XP. Why make SE, when Me was aleady allowing MS to making a small amount of money on the sale new computers.
It is odd.
Yes Patronizing is what the whole concept is.
This is intended to combat piracy in those countries where it is rife.
It goes something like this:
Users - "We would like to buy your software but since you are charging the equivalent of a year's wages for it, it's difficult for us"
MS - "Ahh we understand completely, have this knobbled version for only HALF a year's wages, no piracy excuses now"
Users-"Hmmm, I think I saw a full copy for $5 down the street somewhere..."
I feel it's necessary to clarify this. Starter Edition is not a cheap alternative to XP Home; it's supposed to be for people who have never used a computer before. Ever. In fact, look here -- it's maximum resolution is 800x600 (that's XP Home/Pro's minimum supported resolution!) and it only allows three programs to run at once. But it has other features geared to people who are basically afraid of computers.
Of course, people who can't even use XP Home or OSX are probably not eager to use computers at all, so the market for this is understandably minimal.
~CGameProgrammer( );
I dont think there's anything about "undocumented system calls" when it comes to remote desktop/terminal services.
VNC is just a lot less efficient because all it does is find ways to compress bitmaps of your screen and send them to the client.
RD on the other hand doesnt just do screengrabs, it takes the system calls to draw the screen and pushes that through to the client. Like an X session. Then the client draws the screen. That's a lot less bandwidth.
Considering there is an RD client for unix which is free (if not open source) then I seriously doubt this uses any "secret" technology. An RD clone should be possible, but with VNC where its at, its overkill. Not to mention commercial apps.
Modern VNC variants do pretty well, but because they are essentially graphic compressors they will use more bandwidth. Over your local LAN you wouldnt even notice a difference between the two.
If your RTFA, it implies that the Starter edition is not taking off because the vendors are still loading the XP Home version instead.
So, it's not saying that sales are declining, they're just opting for the more expensive product. They're not getting the cheap one.
-David
Your complaints about configuration are largely subjective and I won't bother arguing arguing those points, regardless of whether they're closer to "right" or "wrong". And honestly, I can understand that Linux isn't perfect for everything, and I realize that there is some very weird hardware that probably won't ever be supported under Linux and such problems really outweigh the benefits... But "Too difficult to secure." leads me to believe that you're either assuming nobody will read this post because it's several replies down, that you haven't considered Linux at all, or both.
Whether it's security from local users or security from remote attacks (even though your cash registers shouldn't be exposed to the internet directly...), I find it difficult to believe that Windows is easier to secure. Through the years, I have used a number of Windows computers that have been "protected" in a myriad of ways from malicious users, but I have yet to find a system that isn't trivially easy to circumvent, top honours going to Deep Freeze which doesn't do anything in of itself to prevent you from messing with the computer, but simply restores the entire drive image upon every reboot, with the obvious effect of having a fresh system every time.
Being a security minded individual and running Linux on all of my computers, I would make the guess that setting up a secure cash register that uses Linux would be exponentially easier than the same task under Windows. To just have a barebones install of Linux that simply fires up an empty X11 session with no WM/DE and immediately runs the cash register app you're using is trivially easy, run that session with a nobody user that has write access to nothing and use the database of your choice to control data access, throw on a firewall for paranoia, note that you're running exactly 0 services, hardware concerns aside (boot from a floppy, etc, none of which have anything to do with the OS), and you're all set. With Windows, you're stuck with the majority of it whether you like it or not (IE in particular, but there are many other offenders in this respect), unless you'd like to spend several days attempting to clean things up, and perhaps getting mediocre results (I thought this was about ease in the first place?) I don't see how Windows even comes close to Linux in terms of security.
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