Slashdot Mirror
Best Buy to Eliminate Rebates
plover writes "According to the Minneapolis Star Tribune 'In response to customer complaints, Best Buy, the world's largest electronics retailer, promised today to eliminate mail-in rebates within two years.' Can it be that we're finally nearing the end of one of the most hated marketing ploys of all?" Further commentary available at BusinessWeek.
...with the April Fool's posts!
Mail In rebates are a sham, in that it takes 8-12 weeks for the check to come in. I am not going to wait 3 months for a 2 dollar check.
The Associated Press doesn't pull April Fools jokes, methinks.
I had but a simple dream, to destroy all humans.
I'm glad that I'll never have to put up with these tatics from BestBuy again (not that I ever did, I use pricewatch and Fry's for my hardware needs).
"Those that start by burning books, will end by burning men."
People forget, miss the deadline, etc. Non-return of rebates is critical to the business model. Best Buy just decieded that the dollar value of the customer annoyance was greater than the rebate non-returns.
sulli
RTFJ.
I think not. They have to have thought up something better.
Only my extreme tenaciousness allowed me to get my rebate for a router. I had a photocopy of the reciept they lost TWICE, claiming I never sent it in. On the third time they tried to pull the old "no facsimilies" routine, but I kept at them and they relented and gave up the 30 bucks.
A richer man would have just given up. That is part of thier plan.
I work for the geek squad at Best Buy #601. Rebates are what we get most of our complaints about, except for service plans. Thats a different story. We would have definately heard about this. We just had our monthly "pep" talk (at 8am sunday morning) and nothing of this was mentioned. If i can confirm this, i will submit a slashdot story.
If you don't ship it registered, what's stopping the company from saying it never got there? I've heard of people who have waited over a year and have hassled the company numerous times to finally get their rebate. I got two items with a mail-in rebate on Boxing Day (December 26), I got the $10 cheque, but am still awaiting the $60 cheque.
Some businesses will instead just give you the discount at the till and do the work themselves for the rebate.
The only real major downside to getting rid of rebates is that in reality only a very small (less than 10 per cent) of people fill them out which means that in theory they can offer larger rebates for those who do. Of course, that's only in theory.
So many people either forget or don't bother with rebates that Best Buy would be crazy to abandon them. It's easy money in their pockets... not that I'm defending them or anything. Just looking at it from their point of view.
You'd think on April 1st the Sun would report something serious for a change.
At least I wasn't fooled this time around. Unlike the article about the Meat Tree.
SerialEx13 is right on the money. I put in for a $50 rebate on a HDD. Bought the thing September '04. The rebate form, reciept copy, and bottom panel of the box went into the mail the same day. It's now April '05 and three calls and 1 fax to Best Buy have given me nothing but one long distance fax charge and no rebate yet.
Blessed are the pessimists, for they have made backups. -- 0 1 My two bits
I have yet to find any of the slashdot April fools jokes funny this year, last year, the year before that, etc... Come on and end the jokes!!
They make money because only half of rebates are redeemed. This means that they can advertise the price lower than without a rebate by counting on some people not getting their money back. The people that benefit are the ones who do send in their rebate because they're getting a better deal at the expense of the lazy people who can't cut out the UPC code.
If blockbuster can be made to refund people for something just because _they_ had the details in finer print (and it wasn't even that obscured, IMO), I don't see why Best Buy can't be made to stop this effective bullshitting they are doing by advertising the price after rebate as if it were the sticker price.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
recently I started shopping at Fry's in Renton WA. I live north of seattle so it is a bit of a drive. Often one of my buddies will go with me which usually results in a bunch of stupid purchases we weren't planning on, but makes for a fun (although expensive) afternoon.
We wander around the huge store eventually losing track of each other. We are now only slightly embarrassed by having to call each others cell phones to find each other (although this took some getting used to). They have some really good deals especially considering the rebates. I started wondering if something was up a few months ago however when I bought an item, and a few days later when I went to mail the rebate in I noticed some fine print that said I should have mailed it sooner and it was no longer good.
now I have grown to hate fry's. yes I still shop there, but I am so frustrated when I have to wait 5 minutes while the cashier has to collect the stack of rebate forms for all the items I bought. Often these rebates are not even marked on a sign in the store so I am usually unaware they are even available.
I did all my christmas shopping there and was horrified at the stack of paperwork it generated. A seperate set of photo copies, forms to fill out, file folders to label and store in a "safe place" and stamped/addressed envelopes to buy, lick and stick. Some of the rebates were impossible to collect as I realized that I had given the UPC codes on some items away with the gift. The giftee's had usually thrown them away (of course) by the time I figured out which reciept went with which gift.
After cooling off for a couple months I found myself at fry's making a purchase again. Again there was a nice rebate available. This time I was absolutely determined to get my money. As I read the fine print I found another disturbing detail. On this particular rebate (and probably most) sending the required stuff to get the rebate meant that you could no longer make a warranty claim. The warranty of the item required the original UPC, and so did the rebate. So you were given the choice of $x back -OR- the warranty for the product.
what a world. my fingers are tired of typing. if you skipped the rest of my message I will sum it up for you: rebates suck, frys sucks, best buy sucks, and so do you, and everything else around us.
goodnight
Obama is a twitter sock puppet
It takes 1 minute to fill out the postcard and less than half a dollar to mail it off. I don't understand anyone who doesn't mail it off for their rebate.
Unless you're making $30.00 each minute ($1,800/hr), you're just wasting perfectly good money.
Quit fooling yourself. It does NOT take 1 minute.
1. Fill out rebate form.
2. Make photocopy of receipt and circle purchase.
3. Cut out bar code.
4. Find envelope (every 100 envelopes or so, you'll have to organize to get more).
5. Fill out envelope.
6. Find stamp.
7. Make photocopies of everything you are sending.
8. Mark date on calender on date you are supposed to receive rebate.
[this is where we branch]
[branch #1: several weeks later]
9. Find copies of rebate that is marked as *should be received by now*
10. Find phone number on company that's supposed to have sent you rebate
11. Call phone # to find out why no rebate has been received.
12. Listen to someone giving you the run-around
13. Realize you are fucked
[branch #2: couple of weeks later]
9. Receive email about why rebate was declined. One of:
- UPC code missing.
- purchase not circled.
- unreadable submission.
- that address was already registered.
- other lie.
10. Goto 10 of branch #1
[branch #3: couple of weeks later]
9. receive email about rebate accepted.
10. never receive rebate and forget about it.
Rebates are a SCAM. And they bloody well know it. It's actually a very simple scheme: the majority of people will never send it in. Then the majority of people who get declined, will not follow up. At the end they are left with a very low percentage of actual payouts, many MANY weeks after the original purchase.
I applaud Best Buy and hope many will follow. (Fry's, are you listening?!).
The Federal Trade Commission recently ruled that retailers are liable when rebates aren't paid by the manufacturer. So, now that they can't pass the buck on rebates, retailers want out of them.
Stores typically advertise prices after rebate, making you think you pay less. But for obtaining the rebate check, you have to go through a long process and give up some privacy on the way.
Here in Germany there are strong laws protecting consumers. Here we have no rebates that are comparable to those in the US. Sometimes there are coupons attached to the product (like: collect 5 of these, claim a freebie/prize). But never we are told the product costs less than at the register. Heck, even the sales tax (more correctly: VAT) has to be included on the prize advertised for the item.
--- Eat my sig.
If anyone was wondering why Slashdot would choose to link the Minneapolis daily paper for this story: Best Buy is based in Minnesota.
I work for Staples. The Staples online EasyRebate system has all but eliminated mail-in rebates. Rebates can be submitted at https://www.stapleseasyrebates.com/
Customers seem to love this option.
~DF
People who forget or otherwise choose not to send in their rebate forms have no reason to be annoyed with anyone other than themselves. The big problem is when people uphold their end of the bargain and the company fails to uphold theirs.
Personally, I have yet to be stiffed, but two rebates I mailed in for my parents when they bought cell phones were rejected on the grounds that the second month's bill didn't show that the first month's balance was paid in full. Bullshit. There was a large number next to "previous month's balance" and a zero next to "current balance". I even circled it for them so they wouldn't miss it.
One angry email later, they promised to review my claim, and my parents did receive a rebate check for one phone. As for the second phone, they claimed not to have a rebate form in their system. Again, BS. How could they send me a rejection notice for a rebate form they never received? They either lost it or threw it out because they didn't feel like paying it.
Another angry email followed, and now they're asking me to fax my supporting documentation, which I plan on doing (always keep copies of rebate forms/receipts, etc, until you have the check). It almost seems like a game to see who will get tired of squabbling over a few measly bucks first. If it were my own money and not my parents, I'm not sure I'd still be fighting.
I like rebates.
I really, really, *REALLY* like rebates.
What I dislike is feeling like I've been lied to, which is how the whole advertise the price after rebate thing makes me feel. Sure they explicitly say that the price is "after rebate", but that's *AFTER* the listed "price"... and it's just plain wrong, IMV. Rebates should simply not be factored into any primary listed price. If they want to, they can list the main price, then list the price after rebate immediately following. It will communicate the same information, in much more honest fashion, IMO.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
I don't know if you meant the April Fool's jokes or the rebates, but I agree!!!
Small potatoes make the steak look bigger.
So, could anyone explain this to the rest of the world?
Thank you in advance,
Mark
So, if BB eliminates mail-in rebates, will they permanently lower their prices? Will they increase the intelligence-insulting "instant rebates" to compensate? Yeah, right...
On a related but perhaps OT note, I've always wondered why car companies have to provide many thousands of dollars in rebates and "incentives" to sell their products. Anyone ever think that maybe the price points were too high to begin with? Just a thought...
Best Buy has been talking about doing this for the past few months now in their conference calls. Besides, look at the date, its April 2nd
Their rebate policy was flawed, but so are their other "policies". I will no longer shop at Bust Buy because "policy" always trumps the customer.
Take for instance their refund policy. If you buy a computer, and pay cash, and that computer doesn't work when you get home - you must wait for a check if you want to return it for a full refund. I advised my mother on going there because of the good prices. She paid cash and got a good deal. The PC was fried and they didn't have another to exchange.
Apparently another policy is that Bust Buy doesn't ship items from store to store or order replacement items if they are out of stock. Her options were: Wait 1 month for them to fix the computer, for free; wait 6 to 8 weeks for a refund; or pay the manufacturer to ship a replacement (and pay to take the broken machine).
After their sales staff insulted her in the store (only for wanting what was due), she decided to get the refund and buy a machine elsewhere.
Still, if I pay cash - why should I wait for a check in the mail? Cashing a check isn't cheap for people who don't have checking accounts, not everyone does have one too. Hell, they discourage the use of checks as it is.
Someone should also look into the fact that they never honor their rewards program. In one visit we bought $300 in DVD's and was supposed to get a $25 store credit in the mail (after paying another $10 to join the "club"). The credit never came and they don't even have us on file. Worst part is that we bought more, expensive, items there hoping we'd get a reward!
Scam!
Get your Unix fortune now!
hell of a long time to be in a conference call. They're phone bills most be through the roof and in need of a major piss break.
Actually, Best Buy has gone a large way to eliminate rebates already. I used to get a lot of good rebate deals at Best Buy, now I hardly get any. In elimination of the rebates they don't seem to have done much to reduce prices, they have just eliminated many of the deals. I for one miss getting free optical mice or free 50 or 100 packs of CDRs after rebate, even if I did have to send in the rebate materials and wait months. The remaining rebates seem to be on higher priced items, but before you get too thrilled that they are eliminating rebates, what in the world makes you think that they will lower prices to reflect these lost rebates? They sure didn't do it on the cheaper items that frequently had rebate deals on them, I doubt that they will do it often on any item after they completely get rid of rebates. No one forced you to send in those rebates, but it was a way to get money back if you did. If the rebates vanish completely but the prices still don't reflect it, then we all lose.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
How is this any different than what they currently do?
The ______ Agenda
The catch is that they often "lose" the paperwork, or require many "hoops" for you to do, so that you may get your money. They rely on the fact that many people do not fully complete all the steps necessary to acquire the refund, and thus the company never pays out. I've seen figures that state only about 10% of people wind up getting their money from these things, for a variety of reasons - forget to send the paperwork, lose the receipt, forget the deadline, etc.
..........FULL STOP.
Too bad, you being the first post on this thread, you could have posted "last post" and it would have been on-topic and funny...
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
The article is probably a joke, but nevermind.
My brother bought a stack of recordable CDs from a retailer in Vancouver close to five years ago. Of course, the advertised price at the time was a phenomenal deal and against my protestations and the angst inducing mail in rebate requirement for the "sale" price he bit and purchased the CDs, filled out the form and mailed in all the required bullshit.
Needless to say months later still no check. Down to the store he goes only to find out from the retailer that this is common problem and that most companies contract out their rebates to "fulfilment centres" where "fulfilment" is anything but.
We get into the "I told you so" conversation and I jokingly mention that he should sue. Note that by this point he'd called, mailed a letter or two and been generally frustrated. He looked into the matter and decided that he would file a small claims suit. According to him, they are incredibly easy to file in BC with only a few sticking points such as the legal name of the entity you wish to make a claim against and the type of business presence the company maintains in BC.
A few days after (and $100 later for filing costs) he sent a copy of the statement of claim to the company offices in Vancouver he received a nice phone call from the company offering to send him a check for the rebate and the cost of his filing fee (which was claimed in his statement of claim). He never got to stand before a judge, but he did get his satisfaction.
Now, why would someone go through all this for the $10 rebate on a stack of $25 CD-Rs? Well, he's the guy that decided half way through university that instead of engineering he wanted to become a dentist, so he did. He's one of those anal retentive types that keeps, files and remembers everything. Which is a good thing if you're a dentist, I suppose.
Most rebates that I've seen are offered by a third party, and not by the manufacturer. I don't even know how that works.
I bought a laptop from BestBuy a year ago. It was a Compaq model, so the rebate was coming from HP. I sent it off to their third-party rebate refunder, and when I finally received a response, they told my I had missed the deadline. I mailed a day after I bought the laptop, and the deadline was six months away.
Honestly, I didn't even bother to fight it. It's just $100, and was not worth the trouble. That's probably exactly what they're hoping you'll think when they refuse to honor their rebate. Based on that experience, I'll never buy anything with a mail-in rebate again.
hello dear sirs my name is jamesh i are india (bihar) can u guide me install red had linux 9?
It is totally unethical - it is a form of fraud. link.
In Soviet America the banks rob you!
I don't know, I would consider advertising the after-rebate price in 150pt font, and the note advising you that's only after a mail-in rebate 1/75th that size. You say, "Wow! A hard-drive for $29.99! Deal!" Take it to the counter and suddenly it's $75. "Oh, sorry, didn't you see? That price is only after a mail-in rebate. Would you like to purchase the product anyway?"
Not everyone has the time, interest, or desire to RTFM. Nor should anyone be expected to when dealing with how and when to spend their precious dollar bills. Really, those kind of rebates should be between the manufacturer and the seller. I think the mark-up should include that kind of convenience.
In the end I guess I agree that it's not my most hated marketing ploy, since, to me, all marketing tactics are equally worthy of my animosity.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
I hope it was.
Think of the logic behind this:
I'm Joe Sixpack.
I save up my money to buy a television.
I get there and get the last one in stock because I had to save up my dollar bills.
I get it home, it doesn't work.
I take it back to the store to get a refund.
They tell me that even though I gave them cash, the most liquid form of payment, that I will get a check in the mail.
8 weeks, or 2 months, later I get a check.
The check isn't liquid.
Banks charge $5.00 just to cash it even if it's drawn at that bank.
Liquor stores want 2 to 6% of the check just to cash it.
I'm serious when I say not everyone has a checking account. I can't for various credit reasons, my father couldn't because of a nasty divorce which left him in bankrupcy, with fees it may not be affordable, I may not have enough money to use the checking account.
Remember, there are people out there scraping by. No matter, why should I take a check from you when I gave you cash?
Get your Unix fortune now!
I actually work for company who processes rebates (#2 in this business). We all work incredibly hard to get people their rebates and process (many) millions of them every year.
If you have to mail your forms and the forms are received and they are valid, you will get your rebate, there is nobody intentionally holding on to your money. If there is a problem, you will be notified and you can always contact our customer support to get it resolved. I can guarantee you that we have VERY dedicated people trying to resolve such issues, and I know it since I work side by side with them every day.
If you are tired of sending mail, you can just go to shop to (for examples) Staples. You don't have to send anything by mail anymore if you shop there. Just come to their easy rebates website, submit your name and address and you will get the check and soon even direct deposit as Staples announced this week.
The reason why the rebate process takes so long is actually not technical, one of the mai reasons is policy of manufacturer and retailers. Often the retailers need to protect themself from people who try to commit fraud, buy products, apply for rebates and return them. Mostly due to this reason you have to wait to get it.
I wonder how much the USPS (and the rebate fulfillment companies) are going to lose from this.
but I ignore rebates altogether when I'm shopping for electronics and such. I don't even allow them to be a factor in my buying decision. The amount I'm paying for an item will always be, in my mind, the amount they charge me at the register, regardless of whatever rebate it promises me.
If BestBuy has something for $100 with a $50 MIR, but the guys down the street are selling the same thing for $75, I'm buying it from the guys down the street. I've never found MIRs to be reliable and I have and always will be willing to pay a bit more than the "after-rebate-price" to avoid them. Now, if I do buy something that has a rebate, I'll go ahead and send it in, provided it's a worthwhile amount ($20 or more) and I'm not too concerned about destroying the packaging of the item by cutting the UPC off the box. In this case, I just consider MIR a sort of bonus win (like a lucky lottery ticket) and not part of the amount I'm saving from the store.
Am I just being a stubborn consumer or do others have a similar attitude?
10. Goto 10 of branch #1
No GOTOs here, please. Clean up your code.
13-4=54/6
If stores were required to post the out of pocket price in bold this would all come to a stop....VERY quickly.
Sigh... someone at their fulfillment center decided they needed the money more than I did and entered my rebate information to get sent to them. Lovely.
Had to end up filing a complaint with the better business bureau to get it fixed. They finally are going to resend it to me - just last week in fact.
This couldnt happen sooner (rebates ending).
The money quote: In fact, more than 80 percent of consumers surveyed by NPD Group of New York last fall said they sent in their rebate forms.
Just having consumers hate the rebates isn't enough. Rebates only work for sellers and manufcaturers if a substantial number of people fail to send them in. That is, they bought the product, probably having been persuaded by the rebate, then never sent in the rebate materials. I recall several articles in the past (no links, sorry) that explains how if the number of rebate submissions approaches 100% of purchases, then it's cheaper for manufacturers and sellers to cut the price. The rebate overhead, of course, is what really makes this happen.
So, an 80% submission rate is probably close enough to 100% that sellers/manufacturers aren't seeing the kind of return they're used to. Who cares whether the buyers like rebates? What matters is whether they file for and receive the rebates. Now that the FTC is cracking down on that second part (i.e., companies not paying off on the advertised rebates), where's the upside for the companies?
Well if Best Buy is going to eliminate rebates within two years, I guess I can wait two years before shopping there again.
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
I don't know about your Wal-Marts, but ours have crappy selection, and generally only the very low models of any brand. So obviously I just *can't wait* until it's the only option in town :-(
--Jim (me)
In the past three years, I've submitted something like 125 rebates. I'll admit that my record-keeping hasn't been flawless, but I bet I'm getting about an 85% hit rate, and for substantial rebates (> $25), I'm getting a 100% rate of return.
So, I for one will miss rebates. If you're diligent about them (I print out the form as soon as I purchase online, and I fill out the forms as soon after purchasing as I can) you can get some incredible bargains, plain and simple.
I see them as a subsidy for the non-lazy, borne on the backs of the lazy. It's a tax on other people, I acknowledge, but a tax that redounded to my benefit. Oh well...I guess I'll just have to slow down my electronics purchases. I'm sure the wife won't mind.
Do you think Best Buy makes it a practice to sell items at a loss?
Yes
In most cases, you're not getting the discount you think you are (if you aren't also calculating the tax you pay on the full-price item + your stamp to mail in the MIR, etc.), and if your CPA is telling you that you can claim the tax on the after-rebate cost, he's wrong, and he's putting you in jeapordy (or risk of an audit).
Be careful how you approach these MIR incentives, they could put you at risk, if you file them incorrectly.
Staples EASY rebates are much better than MIR's. That is what probly BEST BUY is planing on doing in 2 years worth of time. Cause I know myself and many other would rather do it online than to mail it in. And so far I have gotten all mine back and in record times. Seems many stores are just tring to play catchup to Staples now. I see something done at staples then lil while latter something real simular shows up at one of the other guys.
Let's hope they do better than Blockbuster did with that "No more late fees" crap.
Sure, everyone (myself included) thinks the rebates are a pain, but without them all that means is that Best Buy will be effectively charging you MORE. Do you really think they will lower their prices to match the price-after-rebate that they currently offer? Our local supermarket pulled the same scam - they advertised "new lower prices everyday" ala Wal*Mart, but prices were really higher since they stopped offering shoppers-club discounts. (Example - Slim Fast used to be something like $7 but was discounted to $5 for cardholders every day for over 2 years, so effectively the price was $5. Now, with new "lower" prices, the cost is $6 which technically is lower than $7 but no one ever paid the $7 to begin with)
There are two hidden costs to mail-in rebates:
1. Extra sales tax
2. Lost interest on the rebate
#1 Sales tax gets charged on the pre-rebated price. It's probably not a big deal in the states where sales taxes are usually lower. Where I live (Ontario if you must) sales tax is %15. From your example this gets charged on the $99. $7.50 more than if it were charged on the $49.99.
#2 While you wait for your $50 back any interest you could earn on it is lost. Those rebates can take months to come back. %3 cumulative interest on $50 over 4 months (which you can easily earn with a decent savings account) comes to $0.50
So the cost of the drive from Best Buy comes to $99.99 * 1.15 - 50 + 0.50 = $65.49
Plus a stamp/envelope/photocopy and the risk of being slimed.
The extra cost of buying online is shipping charges.
From my last experience buying a hard disk the same model was at Best Buy and some tiny pc shop nearby. I don't have the exact numbers but the tiny shop had a slightly higher price but no mail-in rebate.
Currently the Canadian Best Buy flyer has a 120GB Maxtor for:
$169.99
- $24 instant rebate (applied post tax, can't confirm)
- $26 Mail-in Rebate
---------------
$119 ($145.49 after tax)
---------------
The neighborhood hole-in-the-wall shop (Laurier Computer, Ottawa):
---------------
$109 ($125.35 after tax)
---------------
Same specs on both: 120GB 7200RPM ATA-133 8MB by Maxtor. So it's probably the same model.
ummm - that assumes you have a regular job and something to "direct deposit" with.
Ok, but why use a bank? Use a credit union instead and you will not have to worry about those fees. Credit unions also tend to have slightly better savings rates....if that's what you are into.
We received a really funny phone call from a drunk Idaho women that thought she was calling Best Buy. She was having some problems with a best buy in-store rebates. Go here to listen: http://forums.dealcatcher.com/m_316229/mpage_1/key _/tm.htm%23316229
Online Coupons |
Unlike their English counterparts, who have the benefit of a very good Advertising Standards Authority, and their local authority's Trading Standards office, American consumers are left high-and-dry because 'the market' has to be allowed to operate without government interference. The fact that millions of customers get screwed is totally lost on them.
If KFC advertises a mini chicken sandwich, for example, and it looks much bigger on the poster than it is in real life, the ASA will ban the misleading ad in England. As the whole mail-in rebate scam shows, American consumers get NO protections whatsoever. Welcome to the land of free enterprise.
Given the abuse that consumers suffer with these rebates (some of which I can attest to personally), I'm surprised the Attorneys General from the various states haven't targeted the companies offering them. At a minimum, I'd expect them to go after unclaimed rebates using the government's power of escheat. There must be a ton of money left that goes unclaimed, and states are hungry for revenue all the time. Or, they could levy fines against companies who falsely claim all the rules weren't followed (I've had 3 of those myself, and I have absolute proof that I fulfilled every niggling requirement. They still denied them, claiming there was no UPC in my submission. Lying bastards. I have a photocopy of what I turned in, and the original UPC is right there taped to their stinking form.)