Slashdot Mirror
IBM to Help UAE Track Drivers on the Road
Mr.Bananas writes "InformationWeek reports that IBM has announced a deal with United Arab Emirates in which it would provide speed tracking devices that will automatically warn violators of traffic laws: "The telematics device will use multiple microprocessors based on IBM's Power Architecture, and will have the capability to monitor the speed of the vehicle and send out a warning if the car surpasses the posted speed limit." GeekCoffee goes on to report that tickets will be issued automatically to violators who ignore the warnings: "If the voice warning is ignored, the system would use a GSM/GPRS link to beam the car's speed, identity and location to the police so that a ticket could be issued.""
I thought they were referring to the "Ubiquitous Amiga Emulator"
That's pretty awesome for a place where traffic law informcent in itself is pretty weak and the drivers are pretty insane. But really, how is one to guarentee these devices stay in the cars?
:) There's two sides, naturally.
I for one would pull it off my car and throw it somewhere.
But hey, some may like it and some may see it as a violation of their "freedom to drive like an idiot"
It's just Crap.
Would this system also be implemented in public vehicles, such as the police themselves?
Shouldn't the cops get a ticket as well, if they are not "chasing the bad guy", say trying to get to the local krispy kreme before it closes?
[driver] But I thought I was doing the speed limit!
[RoboTrafficCop] You were going exactly 15.253 kph over the speed limit, mister
[driver] But! BUT!!!
[RoboTrafficCop] No buts mister. Ticket amount: 150 dollars
[driver] No!!!
[RoboTrafficCop] We robots have no sympathy
Your right to privacy? Your right not to be tracked by the government? It's sort of like RFIDs, except in cars.
Personally, if this works out, it's worth the amount of lives saved, just as long as it isn't abused.
As my latest JE points out, people just don't follow the speed limit anymore or maintain safe braking distances. I don't think they will until corrective measures are taken. And the only corrective measures are those that are enforced on drivers. Driving is not a hobby or a skill, it's a practical mode of transportation. If you want to race, go find a race track and have at it. If you want to get from point A to point B, then follow the laws to the letter, leave plenty of time for travel, and don't bitch when you get a legit ticket.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
Well, the thing reports you to the authorities though a communication network so I guess that qualifies as "on-line". And once it's implimented in a few countries and the bugs worked out, lawmakers will have a template to go on to further exise what few rights you have left wherever you might live.
When they came for the speeders, I didn't speak up, because I wasn't a speeder.
When they came for the Arabs, i didn't speak up, because I wasn't an Arab.
When they came for me, there weren't any Arabs or speeders to speak up....
It was Windows 3.x "Unrecoverable Application Error" before that.
"Unrecoverable Application Error:
Truck/camel network sharing collision!"
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
No WAY your putting something like this on MY car, I WILL NOT BE TRACKED!! Now let me tell you what my kids drive and what it will take to have their cars outfitted with this device. The ticket is in their name correct?
It just seems like common sense that something like this would be a huge invasion of privacy. Is the government so strapped for cash that this is the only method of getting revenue that they can think of? Or am I missing something here?
(Ignore the fact that speed can be recorded incorrectly due to tire size among other things.)
"What the heck's this 'Unrecoverable Application Exception track driver'"?
"Roseanne, it's 'United Arab Emirates', not 'Unrecoverable Application Exception'"
"Oh. Never miiiind."
</RoseanneRosannaDanna>
Will take about 3 minutes. Enough said.
now we just need to find some way to install linux on it
Warning: This user has performed an illegal operation, and will be booked now.
DRIVER_IN_RED_SEDAN has caused an invalid page fault in module speeding_fines_are_a_cash_cow.dll at 0157:21114020
Please save all your files, and pull over to the left-side of the road, and exit the vehicle. You may click the button "(*&#%)(*#$#@$#@ piece of c*ap" to view further details, or to see what will be sent to the Roads Revenue Collection Service about this incident. Click "Send Private Data" to send your private and confidential data to IBM, or alternatively, don't click anything, and we will do it anyway.
Please have a nice day.
,
"This is the problem with speed limits in most of America. They are set so low that at least 90% of traffic is always exceeding the speed limit, including the cops, and thus the cops can essentially pull over anyone they want, whenever they want."
Define "low"? Is that just below the point when the steering wheel starts shimmying?
Also cops can already pull you over. What makes you think they need "speeding" as justification?
Coming soon to a Western democracy near you....
son... back in my day we could speed all we wanted and even run from the cops with the chance to get away.... those were the days
The article states there are some two million drivers but they're only going to install this into some thousand vehicles, so how do they determine who gets it and who doesn't? My guess is first or second time offenders would get them first similar to how criminals are released back into society but have to "check in" with local law enforcement every now and then or when they move they have to "register" with the local sheriff. I imagine there will be random checks to make sure the devices stay installed in the vehicle as well.
I can see the benefits of having a warning device telling you if you're going over the speed limit. There are lots of times I've thought to myself "hmmm, I wonder exactly what the speed limit is around here, I have not seen a sign". I've always thought it would be cool for the car to "know" what speed you should be driving at. If this device came around, I would jump at the chance to get one. On the other hand, the entire "speed and we will automatically issue you a ticket" idea is stupid. I don't want *that* half of the system in my car (for obvious reasons). I wonder what would happen if I rip out the mobile phone antenna so it can't transmit my details...
1) Sometimes it is to get money, but it really depends upon the location. In some places, if I'm not mistaken, police officers have a quota they have to meet for the number of tickets to write.
2) Well, perhaps a public referendum on such privacy matters. Maybe if 60% of the population can agree that it would be a good thing, then maybe it should be allowed. But such privacy referendums need to be redone like every 5 to 10 years if done at all, incase public opinion changes. After all, laws are suppose to be reflective of what the people want.
Run a GSM blocker in your car and keep annoying and distracting phone calls away as well as preventing tickets!
Organization: alphabetical, sometimes numerical or messy
Well, the technology is good, I can think of hundreds of useful applications for it. But the privacy issues just scare the hell out of me. And, where? in UAE? If it was in a civilized democratic country, where there are restrictions on what a government can do, where there are unions and institutions which care about citizens' rights, then maybe the use of these applications can be justified. But in UAE?
I lived in the UAE for more than 2 years. I had a very nice job there working at a multinational telecommunication company. Being and Iranian myself, it was a very good opportunity for me as my country was nearby and en route to other places, I could stop at my country a couple of times a year to say hello to my family. But there are things in that country which just scared the shit out of me. Things that eventually made me forget the job and the good opportunity it provided, and virtually escape from there.
In UAE, a car's plate number can have variable number of digits. No 1 is reserved for the Sultan of the province (there are 7 provinces there, Dubai being the biggest one). No 2 is usually the Sultan's brother, and the 1 digit numbers are all family members of the sultan. Cousins and close friends get 2 digit numbers, as well as their wives and their children. The 3 digit numbers are also relatives of the relatives of Sultan. Ordinary cars have 5 digits on their plates.
The situation is that no one can stand in the way of a lower-digit car. If you see a 2 or 3 digit car coming from the opposite direction, it doesn't matter if it's your line of road or not, you have to make way for him. The police can not issue tickets to these cars. They do not obey the speed limit; mostly they have Ferraris and Porches which easily pass the 180 mph, and no one can even stop them. Legally, the police can do nothing with them.
They have all the money of the world. They have built bridges longer and more modern than those in Japan and Sweden, they have made skyscrapers that make New York look like a village, they have cars which automobile manufacturers hand made for their special needs. They have made a heaven out there. And if you just want to have some holiday, get on the beech, go to a resort or something; it is a perfect place. But only if you care nothing about the political situation, and the mentality of the people.
There are no political parties. No Elections. No private newspaper, no private T.V channel, basically no free speech. The thing that surprised me was that unlike the people of my country, who also lack these things, but at least are fighting in order to get them; they even do not think about having a democratic society, having liberty, and privacy. It is as if these words do not exist in the dictionary of an ordinary Arab. They have been brought up with the mentality that you never question the ruler. They never criticize a single action of any governmental body; be it the municipality, or any other bureau. It was so shocking, and yet embarrassing to me.
If this technology was being deployed in a democratic country, you would have had many organizations and groups voicing concerns over it. If did not prevent the deployment of such technology, they would have at least made sure that the necessary checks and restrictions on the storage and usage of information about every single car exists. As it is in the UAE, I'm sure no one will even question this thing. No one will even think about how this technology can be used to violate their rights and privacy. It doesn't matter how much money and oil they have and what kind of gadgets they use to control their traffic; when a society lacks basic elements like freedom of speech; that society will not evolve in a positive manner.
--
"You have five points remaining on your license..."
Like the UK.
This kind of technology is being seriously looked at as a complement to the road toll scheme they already have in place around the centre of London.
The GP comment fails to remember that technology knows now boundary. If this works in the UAE (which is probably a good testbed for it) then we will see the improved version of this rolled out in your country.
i live there! this isnt a case of the government not having enough money, just do a google for burj dubai. they have money coming out of there fucking dicks. they have tonnes of oil. they even own madame tussads in england!. its simply that the traffic laws are a joke, no one uses their indicators, almost everyone speeds, people drive 20 kmph in a 90 zone, people drive 368 kmph in a 20 kmph zone. paired with the fact they have so much fucking money, that 18 year olds are getting ferrari's for their first cars. personally, i cant wait till it arrives, im gonna hack the gibson and make a fuck load of money! "In UAE, a car's plate number can have variable number of digits. No 1 is reserved for the Sultan of the province (there are 7 provinces there, Dubai being the biggest one). No 2 is usually the Sultan's brother, and the 1 digit numbers are all family members of the sultan. Cousins and close friends get 2 digit numbers, as well as their wives and their children. The 3 digit numbers are also relatives of the relatives of Sultan. Ordinary cars have 5 digits on their plates." "there is no sultan in the UAE, its a sheikh."
I just can't wait for the day when all cars will be computerized and manual driving of any kind will be illegal. Then while I'm kicking back in my car drinking a coffee and listening to music while reading a book, I can think about all those enraged college students and idiot boomers fuming over the fact that they no longer get to endanger everyone else with their complete and total lack of skill...and smile.
Hey, it's no different than legislating moronic things like seatbelt and helmet laws. If you think you have a moral imperative to act as my daddy, then I'll assume your position and bring it to its logical conclusion. And laugh at you every time you bitch about the 'good ol' days', when every stupid shit who insisted that *they* were great drivers put everyone else on the road at risk every time they got behind the wheel.
Until that beautiful day, I'll back any bill that makes it a shooting offense for people to use their cell phones while driving. I swear to christ, those morons are as bad as any drunk....
Max
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
Why is it that most people who like to "go faster" never seem to realize - or at least admit it - that it's not about them. It's primarily about the safety of the other people (yes, us who like to drive safely and by the regulations) on the road.
The owls are not what they seem
I wonder how long it takes before someone creates a modified version of this, so they are never detected as speeding?
Student Research and Development
I used to live in Bahrain, and like Bahrain, the UAE is full of drivers who break all sorts of speed limits (the cops simply didn't care there). Popular to contrary belief, while these countries may be "police states" in some aspects (ie. talking about the government), they turned a blind eye towards traffic laws and simple "crimes". You rarely found cops hiding in a designated place to catch speeders, like they do here in the US.
Seems like the UAE govt. know this and are using another course of action to deal with speeders. But, as always, it's all about connections in those places, so I doubt many people will be penalised for the tickets. We'll see...
When the police are lazy and corrupt go directly to technology - i like it! Perhaps when someone speeds 3 times or more the car can automatically drive to the amputation centre to get their hands chopped off? oh wait, sorry my bad, its only the left hand right?
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
"IBM to Help UAE Track Drivers on the Road"
..but this other story was interresting too.
Am I the only one to have read that as:
s/UAE as in United Arab Emirates/UAE as in Unix Amiga Emulator/
s/drivers as in people who drives cars/drivers as in software purposed to link hardware to an OS/
s/on the road as in cars on the ground/on the road as in, in real time/
Like, I imagined the story would be about IBM making UAE able to for example detect a newly plugged in USB harddrive without having to reset the emulator first.
Y'know, there IS a world outside of the USA, and in fact, the majority of humankind is from out there. It may seem strange to you, but some of these foreign freaks even browse Slashdot. Amazing, isn't it?
quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur.
... that it's not both trivially easy and incredibly common to "fiddle" tachographs.
A tracking system that is connected to a computer network and that monitors someone's behavior seems to fall into the "rights online" category to me. This is probably off topic at this point, but I had to respond as your comment had been modded up to "insightful" which really doesn't make any sense.
New technologies need to be tested somewhere. TFA states that about 2 of the 3 million citizens of the UAE drive. Even if IBM only sells the minimum 100,000 units in the initial contract it makes for a hell of a field test. This is more than some simple transmitter/receiver device:
"The telematic device will include several wireless technologies, including GSM (Global System for Mobile Communications) cellular capabilities and General Packet Radio Service. Bluetooth and an optional driver-identification feature using RFID also will be on the device, as will IBM's speech software, Via Voice."
That's a lot of functionality to pack into a box and suggests that even more is possible. Especially intriguing is the idea of the "optional" RFID. I doubt if "optional" refers to the driver's decision. This device can determine which lead foot is actually breaking the law. Hopefully the punishment won't be modeled on the traditional penalty for theft imposed in some places in that part of the world. I can see a remote enabled explosive charge mounted on the gas peddle. It would also be possible to plant directed explosive charges (like claymore mines) at strategically selected points. Pissing off the government would be a risky business - after all, the explosion could always be blamed on terrorist hackers. For that matter, terrorists could hack into the system and detonate their own devices with little risk of capture or targeting the wrong person.
If the system works in the UAE you can bet that some incarnation will eventually follow more close to home. Even now police can download the information in your engine control computer. It may be hard to fight legislation initially aimed at drunk drivers or based on "homeland security". If the system is widespread enough it would be a simple matter to track any driver in virtually real time. A disabling function would be easy to include in the sealed manufacturer installed unit. I'm not looking forward to the day when my back seat driver is the government.
billy - it's just an electromagnet officer, really
.. designed to keep the raff in order.
.. except build another one, right on top of it, as quickly as we can..
"UAE Driver #4023, you are fined one credit for violation of the State Fashion Law, Article II, Clause 3, 'Turban Wrapping Instructions'"
The New World Order is upon us! There is nothing we can do about it
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
We've been having something like that for years here in Denmark, though it works a bit different. The speed of the car is determined (i think they use infrared light or something,) and if it's too high (you get a ticket if you drive more than ~10% faster than the limit) there's automatically taken a picture of you. That picture (all but the driver is censored, to avoid angry wives...), plus the date and time of the crime and the speed at that moment is mailed to you (along with the ticket).
These devices are manned, though.
Well if they run it on windows we can write a code to make it seem like your doing a pleasant 54.89 mph when in fact you are blazing down the road at over 200mph IBM Imbecils becomming managers.
...govern the throttle so no matter how far you press the peddle, it will not go past the speed limit zone your in.
Life is not for the lazy.
because there isn't enough enforcement to make moderate speeding a negative stimulus.
However, it is very well established that higher speeds cause more accidents and more and greater injuries, cause more wear on roads, and of course use more fuel.
In the first two, many of the costs are born by directly by society, so people who obey the speed limit and non-drivers subsidize speeders.
With a more automated system of negative stimulus like automated ticket assignments to speeders, this cost would be more fairly distributed (speeders would pay their fair share) and/or speeding would be reduced (the negative stimulus would nearly always result from speeding).
Seems to me a and a fair thing, it isn't like speeding is a right, esp. where speed limits are determined by democraticly elected governments--if we had this then speed limits could be set to the actual limit the road is designed for, and folks who drive above it assessed their share of the increased costs.
I've been getting a lot of tickets lately and I've been thinking about a similar device that monitors my location and controls a speed limiter in my car that ensures I can't drive too fast.
;)
I'm not a great fan of government controls, so I'd like to be able to switch the device off if I want to and switch it on if I like to keep my eyes on the road instead of watching my speedometer all the time. Or maybe I could overclock it slightly...
IMHO speed monitoring will get better and better in the coming years. How big and expensive does a camera with a small speed detector and a wireless link for uploading its data have to be? Maybe there will be a speedcam in every lamp post in the future.
I sure hope I will have my speed limiter by then
X.
To provide you with better, more personalized articles and comments, about your rights online, please publish your driver licence number, home adress, SSN, bank account numbers, any restrictions on your driver license (e.g. corrective lenses, only drive form/to work,...), slashdot password, and access to other information which we may from time to time require.
It was an honest mistake, the article's poster thought your brother-in-law wass driving there.
What keeps me going is my inertia.
Thank god someone has finaly done this. Now how long until we can have it connected up to a speed limiter that prevents the car from breaking the limit? (Before anyone says it, yes you have to have an emergenecy override button for emergenecy situations - but that can be linked up to a GPRS system to inform the police immediately) News Flash to people: Driving is a privelege, not a right - it is not a violation of privacy to ensure that people keep within the speed limit (which exists for safety reasons), nor would it be a violation of privacy to link cars up to a traffic control system - afterall, if you don't want to be monitored you don't have to drive.
James P. Barrett
http://www.atsb.gov.au/road/rpts/cr204/index.cf
The finding that uniform speed reduces accidents makes sense (a lot of accidents are caused by speeding drivers suddenly coming on slower traffic) and points to the benefits of an automated traffic control system.
Test in a small, rich draconian society systems that would get you sued a zillion ways from tomorrow in modern societies, then point to statistical improvements in safety and play the "homeland security" card (which will work for automated speeding ticket systems in a few years).
'accepted' of course by people who know little to nothing about road engineering, automotive engineering, or in many cases driving.
Having the rules made up by people who don't understand the game they are playing may make sense to you, but it seems pretty stupid to me.
The 'guy going 65 in a 50' is a problem when he encounters traffic going 50 or some other unexpected road hazard, and can't stop in time, of course. Blaming the 'guy going 50' is like blaming a shooting victim for getting in the way of bullet.
Just wait until you get a false speeding ticket based on the tracking unit. I work in the tracking business and I've seen units report speeds of 150mph+. Mostly, the vehicle is not even capable of doing that speed. All you need is one bad GPS fix at the wrong time.
"Most police officers do NOT look on themselves as good little revenue-generators for their respective cities/mayors"
No, they don't. But the guys who run the force do.
Believe me, if the money from speeding tickets never found its way back to the police budget, you'd see speed traps disappear immediately.
I want to see cops patrolling, cops want to be patrolling, their bosses want to cover the budget. That's a fact.
Besides, if speed limits were an absolute indicator of safety, then why do most cops drive 10-15 MPH over the limit in all circumstances? Because even the cops know the limits are set for grandma, not people with experience, eyes, and a brain.
I've never been pulled over for going over the limit by a patrolling cop. Mainly because they're going faster than me. And this is in 35 years of driving.
I bet that the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators (AAMVA) would propose something like this considering it is composed of driver's license officials and law enforcement executives and National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHSTA). NHTSA was particularly upset when the national speed limit of 65/55 mph was repealed almost 10 years ago.
An interesting item is I went to the Dayton Hamfest last year, there was one vendor selling a Car Chip that recorded details on your driving. I talked with the salesman and he even mentioned one company (he would not name) mandated this in private vehicles of their employees. If you didn't like it, you don't work for the company.
With the coming Driver License Agreement as sponsored by the AAMVA and the mandate for states to join it if the Real ID Act of 2005 passes combined with this technology, it would be very difficult to retain your driver's license or maintain reasonable insurance premiums especially if you travel alot by car like I do. Even a "law abiding" driver will get nailed here and there !
I will be doing a lot of traveling this Summer such as traveling from Colorado to California and to Indiana. In Indiana, the speed limits is pretty well 55 mph except for rural interstates. The 4 lane divided highways are 55 mph and I usually do 70 to 75 mph. Currently, Colorado takes no adverse action such as points for minor out of state offenses. Here in America, since our public transportation is non-existent, the motor vehicle is the only way to get around unlike Japan or Europe. Unfortunately, it is not practical since places of employment is spread around unlike many years ago where your job was located downtown in a given district.
This seems to be an extension of the general tech-upgrade that the UAE are going through right now. For example, (not sure if /. covered this one), they are using robot camel jockeys, it seems in an effort to stop children being kidnapped or purchased for use as jockeys. Likewise, one of my clients sells real estate in Dubai, and you should see the level of technology in one of their apartments... unreal.
Still, the parallels between this and for example Japanese culture are interesting; once a society reaches a certain level of affluence, the integration of hi-tech seems to become not just accepted, but in fact the norm.
What he can't kill, he has sex on. Trent.
In the UAE, where I have lived for the past 11 years, 1. we do not have Sultans. We have Sheikhs 2. There are many private newspapers. se4arch for Khaleej Times, Gulf News and most editions of Indian regional language papers have a set up there. 3. It is true that there are no elections, but the fact that the Govt. and the Courts are just and fair and reasonably progressive make it one of the better places in the Gulf to be. The Police are prompt and polite. 4. There are a number of private TV channels. CNN,BBC even FOX are aired in the UAE 5. This is just a tool to control traffic. Not the population So Mod the parent DOWN
quote from http://www.answers.com/topic/car-accident:Many authorities emphasise speed as an inherent cause of accidents in itself, though most experts agree that speed alone is rarely a prime cause of accidents, though naturally a mis-application of speed can be a contributing factor, and higher speed in an accident resulting from whatever cause is more likely to have serious consequences
No arguments here. Personally I think differences in speed is more a cause of crashes than speed alone. I'm sure most people have come across the case of somebody entering a highway going 20 MPH below the speed limit. I'm just as sure that most people have come across the case of somebody going 20 MPH above the speed limit racing around them to exit the highway. Those situations are pretty likely to cause accidents, and the best way to prevent such accidents is to ensure that everyone drives the same speed by setting limits that are safe for all drivers on the road, not just grandma Moses or Mario Andretti and those who can not drive at a speed that is safe for the average driver should not be driving at all.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
I get to see lots of bad/stupid driving everyday, all day. People take their driving test, then just do what they want when they've passed. The instructors don't even seem to correct bad behaviour when they are training people. It seems that automatic "cars" as portrayed in Minority Report or I Robot will be the only way to go if the number of vehicles is allowed to grow unchecked.
I am all in favour of an inbuilt electronic system much like the Tachographs we have in large goods vehicles in Europe. It would have to be electronic for car use, because you wouldn't be able to trust the average car driver to change the paper disks every day.
For those who don't know, tachographs record speed against time and also rest periods. So if the vehicle has moved, that fact is recorded. In an electronic version, the device would record speed in much the same way, but would be impervious to user intervention. That way, if there were an accident, the device could be read via a scanner and report the actual conditions at the time of the crash. Also, it would require the driver to assume responsibility for the way they drive, which is something that seems to have been forgotten. Any time law enforcement had occasion to stop a vehicle, they would be able to see the recent driving history of that vehicle and prosecute infringments as neccessary. This is not big brother, this is common sense. No location details need to be recorded. Combined with sensors on the steering wheel to determine blood alcohol levels (which would disable the car if you were over the limit) a system like this would require people to pay attention to what they were doing while driving.
The car these days is no longer simply a transportation device, it has become a fashion item / portable entertainment system, and the skill of the drivers has decreased as a result. Most people I see have difficulty reversing, staying in a designated lane or even steering ! I can always tell when some people have accelerated, because the car veers to the right ?!
There was a funny experiment shown on tv recently, where, on a perfectly straight piece of road, they painted a "wiggle" in the white centre lane markings. Then they filmed the results. Most of the cars driving past actually swerved to follow the line of the "wiggle" !
In brief, if people are going to reject public transport (where the driver is more highly qualified) then they must be forced into compliance. The car is not a toy, it is a machine, and a large, heavy, deadly one at that.
Links:
Representative image of a used tacho disk
Digital tachograph system
All vehicles there have a chime that sounds whenever you go over the speed limit. The easy way to bypass it was to disconnect the speedometer cable where it attached to the transmission. Then you couldn't tell what speed you were going. Seems like there is a similarly easy hardware-hack for this one out there...
For the tinfoil crowd - don't look on this technology as the next step to total mind control. It's just a technological shift in transportation going on.
This is actually a minor development in the gradual transition from the individualistic horse-like cars to more social railway-like model. Cars used to be one of the American symbols of individual freedom - I drive where I want to and how I want to. This made sense in the beginning, when there were relatively few cars. Normal countries didn't have this penile-substitution menthality and now they have decent public transportation, which is better suited to moving people around, not boosting someone's ego. But the USA will have to change too. It is unlikely that people there will abandon their invididual "wagons", but they will still adapt more and more technology that will enforce traffic control. First it might be devices like these ones, then it can be automatic control for highways, then centralised computer control elsewhere (in cities). And then you will essentially have a urban light transport, only without the benefit of sharing cars. But by then a taxi-like company might be easily able to actually do the replacement.
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
Its also my right to not be monitored when im NOT doing anything wrong.
So, yes, there are 2 sides..
Perhaps if you put this on people that keep getting speeding tickets... But on regular citizens, no thanks the government doesnt need to know where i go.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Yes, and don't cry when you are traveling along a freeway at the posted 55(65,70) next to a frontage road with a speed limit of 30 and the gps error has you driving on the frontage road. Ticket for 20 over the limit..
Or blank-out have your car suddenly jump 400 ft, speed in excess of 80mph on a residential street due to the trees.
This is just like those traffic cameras tied to radar, your guilty untill you prove yourself inocent. After all machines never make mistakes.
Last time I looked, a speeding ticket is a moving violation, attached to the driver, not to the car. How is this IBM/GPS gadget goning to know if it's Me driving my car? Other people drive my car too.
Well... if you had RTFJE, you would know that there is usually room on both sides of my car and people still tailgate. If I am in the right hand lane (which I do very rarely because that's reserved for people who need to pass) and someone is going faster than me, I *do* move out of the way. But since it's a rarity that I'm in that lane in the first plae unless I'm passing, that doesn't acount for the 98% of the tailgaters who still refuse to pass me when they have ample opportunity. I can only chalk it up to bad driving skills or some kind of dominant desire they have to prove themselves, somehow, "better" than me. Interestingly enough, all they have proven is that they are slobbering retards with security issues.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
I was thinking more from the viewpoint of where i live, and the slow progression of violations such as this towards my shores..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Sorry... make that left hand lane. I don't usually think of it as right and left, but as "passing lane" (which I stay out of) and regular traffic lanes.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
So IBM has reclaimed its title of Evil Empire after all this time. Not that there's anything wrong with installing a government monitoring box in every automobile in the country and building a nationwide network of sensors to keep an eye on what every driver does at all times. After all, safety and security are more important than a so-called right to privacy. And not that any government has ever misused a data collection system that covers the entire population. How could anyone have a problem with this?
Blah.
Again. Get over yourself and read my fucking journal Ms. Schiavo. You will note that I said that there is always room to pass on EITHER side of me and yet the idiots refuse to do so. I always stay in the center or normal traffic lanes and only use the passing lane WHEN PASSING.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
...when it suddenly became wrong to follow rules and right to break them? It's one thing when a law or rule is unjust (apartheid, anti-abortion, etc...). But it's another thing when the rules are there for a good reason. The national speed limit of 55MPH was created to conserv fuel AND save lives. I don't care what you want to link to, the fact is that if you get hit by a car going 70-75 MPH, your chances of walking away are greatly reduced compared to getting hit by someone going 45-55 MPH. We don't all need to go out and buy Volvos or start using public transportation. The buttholes who want to stroke their penis extensions need to go to hell. Driving is simply transportation. It's not a game. It's not a race. It's just go from point A to point B. That's it. Nothing more.
But overall, it seems that people have thrown logic out of the window and want to justify bad behavior in any way they can find. The responses to my post here bear this out with the possible exception of a few trolls who post AC. Driving is not a right folks, it's a privlege. And if you can't handle it, then it will be taken away eventually. Hopefully by proper law enforcement, but possibly by the grim reaper.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
Although I have no way to prove it, let's just say that in nineteen years of driving, I got one speeding ticket. One. And it was waived because I have such a clean record. Know why I got it? Because I set my car on cruise control at 55 MPH and when I hit a hill it climbed up to 60 MPH. The cop (in a small backwoods town in southern Ohio) was really understanding and very impressed with my driving record. Now... how many times have you been in traffic court to contest a speeding ticket again? I rest my case.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
heat wears out asphalt.
More damage is caused by the speeder slamming on the brakes when they encounter traffic going the speed limit, avoiding an obstacle, etc. The faster a person is going when they slam on their brakes, the more heat and friction the road is subjected to.
And of course when drivers clip curbs, gaurd rails, signs, safty cones, etc., the faster they are going the more damage they do (these minor accidents often aren't reported, so they don't make it into speed related accident stats).
It's pretty clear if you stop to think about it and perhaps apply a little of your understanding of physics, materials science, and engineering to the question.
In the U.S. we have another form of Automated inforcement or "Revenue Generator".... IE Red Light cameras. They are all the rage!
As soon as the cities figure out they would receive 1/2 of the $275 per infraction fee. This became a very hot items! Esp after altering the yellow light length! Funny that the collision shops business have pick up also...
The latest concept is the new speed tax. Or High Fuel prices. Really help in killing sales of higer grade fuels.
i'm sure
these ----> http://www.oman-hp.com/videos.html
guys will pay
alot of attention
to this.
It takes just a moment and an action to destroy. It takes some time and thought to create.
Speed kills. As the energy dissipated during an inpact is proportionnal to que square of the speed, halving the speed will cause one fourth of the damage.
This alones is the best reason for much lower speed limits.
In addition, halving the speed with result in a quarter energy expenditure.
Furthermore, driving fast reduces the time needed to avoid accidents, so as reflexes do not speed-up when you go faster, the chances of accidents is much higher when going fast.
So, driving slower not only causes less accidents because there is more time to avoid accidents, it saves energy (and ultimately the planet), but it makes for far less damaging accidents.
we need technology like this.
How do you know the speed limits are arbitrary? What is your training in civil engineering, law enforcement, emergency medicine?
When I grew up, people in my suburban neighborhood usually drove well below the speed limit, they were more worried about hitting some kid or pet than getting someplace a few minutes earlier.
Now I'd guess you don't have children or pets or have them and don't care about them, so this will all sound like "bwaaah bwaap bwaa" to you. It used to be pretty safe for kids and pets in suburbia (and other residential areas)--not because of LE, but because of greater general levels of 'common' sense.
Hopefully this technology will let us reclaim our streets from teenaged (physically and/or mentally) hotheads who's horsepower is more than double their emotional IQ.
There is a solution to this: vote, and start writing letters to congress. This might not work in UAE, but in the US you can vote. Tell whoever sets the speed limits (could be congress or the city console) to make them reasonable. If they refuse run yourself.
Even if the city sets the limit and you don't live in the city, the state has power. The state just has to tie funding to some project to the speed limit. Things will change. However so long as you complain but don't otherwise make this an issue nothing happens.
Yea, I dislike this a lot.
Ironically, his advice "Don't follow cops" is something I follow very closely. And the companion "Don't let cops follow you".
You would only believe these two things if the following conditions were fulfilled:
(1)- At some level, police have rights and privledges that you do not.
(2)- At some level, police have the ability to harm you.
(3)- At some level, police are unfair and arbitrary.
If any of these things were not true, then you would not have a problem with police being near you. (1) and (2) are true and most people don't have a problem with that. The question is, why don't more people bitch about (3)?
The current traffic setup is basically, you are guilty. *How* guilty determines how the police act. The cop in your case wanted to flex nuts, so he did. The guy who pulled over my law abiding father for not stopping twice at the stop sign (seriously, he said you had to stop once at the white line, then again two feet forward where the intersection actually starts), the cop who pulled me over when I wasn't speeding and claimed I was doing OVER TWENTY OVER (and had a radar gun to show that *something* was going over twenty over), and the wide array of other police hassles means that you simply can't trust them.
You can't trust them because they have more power than you, traffic court is a kangaroo court (I had pictures to show that the officer couldn't see me to verify that his 20+ reading was coming from me, because it obviously fucking wasn't, and that didn't matter either), and are often arbitrary.
It only takes a few bad cops to make me distrust the whole lot of them. Not because I feel that they are all bad, but because statistics state that I'm going to get pulled over for no goddamn reason x%, where x is positive, when a cop is around, and 0% when no cop is around.
So when I see them, I react with fear, and get the fuck away from them before they hurt me any more.
Good job, society!
Nice rationalization. "It's not highly skilled drivers like myself that are the problem, even though we routinely ignore speed limits, and other traffic laws, it's those damn slowpokes who get in our way."
Actually it is; That's why Colorado has a law now that you can get a ticket for just sitting in the left lane not passing anyone (on highways where the speed limit is 65 or higher). This is to prevent road rage incidents with people that like to park in the left lane and just cruise.
And they've also been enforcing it, which is nice to see with a traffic law that can actually help people.
I'm sure you realize that making other drivers angry is far worse for everyone as a whole than speeding.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Then you will not mind when my hacked car reports itself as you while I drive 100MPH through school zones.
After all, the technology is infallible, right? And there's no way people would bypass these devices making it easier for violators to break the law (few police on road patrol after all) while everyone else was stuck at some arbitray limit, right?
I thnk what the US badly needs is for you to drive to Sauidi Arabia and see how much you actually speed as opposed to how much you think you do.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
An oppresive law/technology that is not happening in the US.
Makes you feel kinda good.
Traffic has a very natural speed to it. A posted speed lower than this is low, and going at a speed where you are passing a lot of cars is high. It's pretty easy to figure out, and indeed most police really do pull over people that are going "high" speeds - passing others.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
"...speed tracking devices that will automatically warn violators of traffic laws.."
Wait till those truck drivers find out they gotta wipe their ass with 3 shells.
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
...the sudden stop does!
You must think in Russian.
It has nothing to do with skill.
We let people with minimal training perform a complex operation at high speeds when one person's mistake can endanger dozens of innocent lives.
A common mass accident causer: everyone's cruising along at the 'accepted limit' when they approach a stand of trees on a sunny but cold day. In the stand of trees the road is shaded and much cooler and black ice has formed. The unskilled drivers slam on their brakes and go flying all over the place, woo hoo.
Or you hit the skilled driver who slows down to 50mph because he/she knows what a stand of trees on a cold day is likely to mean...
A good idea would be to restrict unskilled drivers to well under the speed limit until they gain enough skill to handle going 65-70mph without endangering others.
Driving is after all a privilege, not a right.
you doing that, since LE would recieve two signals from my car, one that wasn't speeding and one that was. We establish that my actual car wasn't, we track you down and send you to Saudi Arabia (or better Syria) for interrogation.
In any event, cracking a simple ROM chip is not easy like cracking a Wintel & if just about everyone drove the speed limit it would be pretty easy to catch the crackers. You would stand out pretty well and pissed off citizens would be sending pics from their cell phones to LE.
By the way, how do you know speed limits are 'arbitrary'? Are you a trained civil engineer?
I DON'T DRIVE IN THE FUCKING LEFT HAND LANE. I mentioned that in my JE. I guess you're all too retarded to bother reading it. Here's the fucking quote for you worthless lazy ass sons of bitches and cunts:
"You have room to cut around me on either side in almost every case. If not, I typically shift into a lane to give you room to pass. So WHY, if you have room, do you NOT PASS!!!!?"
That's what I said. Typically, I'm in the normal traffic lanes, NOT the PASSING LANE. Get it through your thick boneheaded skulls. If this post doesn't resolve this pointless complaint, then I'm afraid all respondents have proven they are incapable of driving because you are also incapable of reading. Sayonara dickholes.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
GPS can clock you going 30,000MPH. I might drive a sports car, but the last time I checked, my commute to work still was 15-20 minutes for a 7-mile trek, not 0.00023 seconds. Even when I excessively speed, it's still not that short. And, of course, if Scott Peterson had to succumb to this system during that ill-fated fishing trip, think how large that fine would be, esp. in states that base the size of the fine on a dollar amount for each MPH over the speed limit one goes? If this system was in place, he would have preferred to be arrested and convicted for his wife's murder than receive that speeding fine. So, if we're to use any technoloy such as this, let's at least make sure that it's accurate before deploying it. Otherwise, think of all the false positives we'd end up having.
"Good, Fast, Cheap: Pick any two" -- RFC 1925
dude, you don't need to link to that quote on slashdot.
You can say
1: they that can give up
2: ???
3: neither liberty nor safety.
and we will get it just fine.
See below for more information from my quoted article.
I did, particularly noting this part:
naturally a mis-application of speed can be a contributing factor, and higher speed in an accident resulting from whatever cause is more likely to have serious consequences.
What I'm saying is driving slower or faster than the flow of traffic is a misapplication of speed.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
What you could do is limit the travel of your accelerator cable/linkage. Note, by the way, the such a modification could be dangerous, and/or possibly illegal - dangerous in that if you don't do it right (or if you do it right and it fails) - you could get in the situation of a "stuck" accelerator, which is a scary thing to have happen, if you have ever experienced it (has happenned to me before - not fun at all, especially if you are approaching a stoplight!).
But, basically, you want to find the length of the cable where you are at 55 mph (or whatever the speedlimit is you want to limit your car to) - don't ask me how you would do this, it probably isn't easy unless you have access to those "roller thingies" (can't remember what they are called right now) - that you "drive" on while the car is stationary (used for calculating many things, but most often used in emissions checking). Even so, this procedure would be dangerous at best...
Anyhow, once you know that, then you know how far you need to restrict your air intake valve (or carburetor intake valve, if your car is older) - how far the cable/linkage can rotate it until it hits your "stop" - then, install the stop. It could be a simple clamp or something on the cable, or it could be a screw stop or something to block the rotation of the pulley the cable or linkage is attached to.
You could try putting in an air-restrictor plate or such as well in the intake (say, covering up half your filter) - but things might get really wonky with that - you would run rich once the accelerator opened up the intake valve to attempt to let in more air (and the computer instructed the injectors to let in more fuel), but more air didn't come through - which could lead to all sorts of emmision related issues...
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
all road damage is not caused by weather, roads wear out where there is very little change in the weather (LA, for instance).
With weather taken out of the equation, vehicle wear and tear is obviously still a significant cause of road wear, and it is simple physics that the higher the speed of a vehicle the more energy it is expending, and of course it is expending a good deal of that energy via it's tires.
At the molecular level, vehicles move by having molecules of their tires push against molecules of the road, and the harder they push the more molecules of the road will get pushed out of the road, this is simple physics, even if you don't understand it.
Two signals might help you - when you're trying to fight the ticket you get. Of course if you didn't happen to also be out driving at 3am then too bad for you I guess. Either way I don't care since it's not on my record.
As for losing my licence if I get cought - how are you going to get caught when the number of police has been drastically reduced due to all the automated speeding devices? After all they have to be paid for somehow. And If I switch the tag with any regularity they can't even just scan for one ID.
I am not a civil engineer, nor do I play one on TV. But I have had some CivE friends and just to help YOUR information, sometimes the speed limits get out of sinc or, yes, are arbitrarily set a little lower that what is technically safe because of local laws.
Your just one of those stick-in-muds that like to drive in the left lane blocking people faster than yourself (which it seems is everyone) because you feel you're doing a civic duty. Thankfully as I noted the lawmakers in Colorado decided that what you are doing is indeed inciting anger in other drivers and is against the law.
I don't tailgate, I don't anger other drivers. In fact I help them whenever I can by letting people in when the signal and helping other drivers merge. But if I get a chance yes I go a little faster than the speed limit.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
IBM helped the Nazis, or at the very least their German branch was taken over to do so. It's ironic that they would now be participating in such an intrusive monitoring system. Yes, traffic fatalities are a terrible problem but that still shouldn't give a government the right to spy on everyone's driving.
>> Coming soon to a Western democracy near you..
Brother, it's already here.
http://request-header.info
identity theft is mostly accomplished via social engineering and/or improper security controls being installed on complex programmable systems.
Tracking cars with simple ROM devices is a much different technology, more like what we have been doing for emissions control, for instance.
With the amount of information available, it's better to look to the 4th to prevent abuse of information than think some you can do anything (legally) to prevent it's being gathered.
In any event, the system wouldn't tell the govt. what you were doing, it would tell it what your car was doing, so there is direct 4th amendment issue--it is well established that govt. can monitor your property to prevent you doing something with it that may harm others.
Voting machines, another conflation: the majority of drivers are cheating the current speed control system, so we need a new system that reduces cheating-- with voting, the ability to cheat has been increased by the current implementaion, the opposit case.
If speed control via cops chasing you and giving you a ticket physically was keeping 90% of the people at the speed limit, there would be little reason to look for a better solution.
your car is overcoming wind resistence by exerting greater force on the road, via it's tires. You are talking about road friction and wind friction as if they are unrelated to speed.
Speed is determined by the balance between resistence (friction of the road + friction of the air) and accleration. Unless it is coasting downhill to maintain a given speed the tires must exert force on the road, the greater the speed, the greater the force.
Force exerted on the road certainly causes wear on the road, and a faster car is exerting more force than a slower car.
So, physics question: what determines the maximum land speed of a wheel driven vehicle?
Related: if ground friction is a minor issue, why are trains able to move vastly greater loads than trucks for a given unit of energy (call it horsepower)? Why are maglev trains even more efficient than rails?
the DEA secretly installed these devices.
So long as you know that a new car or a legally required device will report your speed to LE it shouldn't conflict with this ruling.
OK. Please provide a better cite; note that the ruling was not on the basis of the secrecy, but on whether the suspects' reasonable expectation of privacy was violated.
To the best of my knowledge permision is only required for audio recordings and does not apply to video recordings - especially video recordings in public.
That could be true, I know photographers can shoot people in public without getting their permission. If I recall right the only tyme a photographer needs a release signed is if the photographs are used commercially and the person is identifiable. Actually a case like this was tried in court in 2003. A photographer photographed some bare breasted women during Mardi Gras in New Orleans. The photos then were posted on the net. Somehow the women found out and sued but the judge ruled the photos were shot in a public venue and therefore releases weren't needed.
Boy, I'd love to get the 16MP full frame Canon EOS 1DS Mark II
FalconShould there be a Law?